Episode 979 - Topher Grace
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucksters?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast.
Marc:WTF?
Marc:Tonight is Christmas Eve.
Marc:It's nice and quiet.
Marc:I wonder what you're doing.
Marc:I'm recording this obviously a little earlier than Christmas Eve.
Marc:Not much.
Marc:Maybe yesterday, maybe yesterday I maybe recorded this, but I have a early morning flight and I feel like I should have left last night.
Marc:So I probably should have camped out.
Marc:Probably should have just been one of those people that finds an awkward place to sleep at the airport.
Marc:The people sleeping on the floor at the airport.
Marc:I don't think I've ever been a person sleeping on the floor at the airport.
Marc:Maybe it's time.
Marc:Maybe it's time at 55 years old to do something new, to sleep on the floor uncomfortably at the airport where people walk by and they wonder what happened to that guy's life.
Marc:Why is he sleeping here?
Marc:Does he have a flight?
Marc:Did he miss a flight?
Marc:Is there trouble?
Marc:Is there trouble at home?
Marc:Does he have a home?
Marc:I guess that doesn't really happen.
Marc:I don't think you judge people like that.
Marc:What am I talking about?
Marc:Topher Grace is on the show.
Marc:Topher Grace, he's in Black Klansman, which is now available to buy or rent on digital Blu-ray or DVD.
Marc:So I talked to Topher about a lot of stuff coming up, okay?
Marc:So I've got a confession, I think, that I have to make.
Marc:Embrace yourselves, because this is only going to mean something to eight people.
Marc:And it's not even people that are involved in the confession.
Marc:It's just one of these things.
Marc:I'm a middle-aged dude.
Marc:I enjoy music.
Marc:I talk about music a lot.
Marc:I'm a record guy.
Marc:I'm not as vocal about that as I used to be because it just is what it is.
Marc:It was the middle of the night last night.
Marc:I did comedy at the comedy store.
Marc:Had a good set.
Marc:Came home.
Marc:Was late.
Marc:I got a pack.
Marc:But I just started watching.
Marc:Like, I don't even remember why I rented Casino, but I did.
Marc:You know, I've seen that movie so many times.
Marc:I think I rented it to do some research for the Vegas season of GLOW that I'm involved in right now.
Marc:And I hear this song, you know, because Scorsese is so great at layering the songs.
Marc:And I'm like, who the fuck?
Marc:I mean, I've heard that thing before, but I don't think I've ever really identified who's playing guitar and what group is doing ain't superstitious in the background of one of the casino scenes.
Marc:I've heard it before, but I don't think I have it.
Marc:Why don't I have it?
Marc:Why can't I identify who it is?
Marc:Is it Eric Clapton?
Marc:Is it the Yardbirds?
Marc:No.
Marc:It's Jeff Beck Group and the album is Truth.
Marc:Now, I'm not as a grown up or have I ever been a Jeff Beck guy.
Marc:I don't know why.
Marc:There's something about instrumentals that I don't love.
Marc:But this is Jeff Beck Group.
Marc:This is Rod Stewart singing, which threw me because I knew it wasn't the faces.
Marc:But I went and I listened to the entire 1968 album Truth by the Jeff Beck Group.
Marc:And my confession is yesterday was the first time I ever listened to that record.
Marc:I know, I know.
Marc:For those eight people that are like, are you fucking kidding me, man?
Marc:You don't know fucking Beck shit?
Marc:I mean, that guy's a monster on guitar.
Marc:He is.
Marc:He is, and I'm sorry.
Marc:On the other side, I still don't love Jeff Beck, but that Truth album, that's a fucking monster wild guitar record.
Marc:So that's my confession.
Marc:I don't know who to apologize to.
Marc:I don't feel bad about it.
Marc:This is the beautiful thing about music, is that...
Marc:You find that the parameters of your musical tastes were usually guided by radio, parents, friends trying to be accepted.
Marc:And whatever those parameters are, whatever that road is, there are so many more.
Marc:So you can just there's no late to the party.
Marc:I'm happy that I've heard it and I processed it and integrated some of the possibilities into my own fingers.
Marc:And that's that.
Marc:No big deal.
Marc:And another thing I learned, there's very few things I can't watch.
Marc:I can usually let things into my head and take it.
Marc:But when they put that guy's head in the vice in casino, can't watch it.
Marc:Can't do it.
Marc:I just cannot.
Marc:Just can't fucking do it.
Marc:So there's two confessions.
Marc:I just listened to Jeff Beck's truth and I'm incapable of watching the scene where Joe Pesci has a guy's head in a vice to casino.
Marc:And I'm fairly proud about both of those.
Marc:I think I'm a better person for both of those things.
Marc:Isn't that what confessions are about?
Marc:It's off me now.
Marc:I've unloaded.
Marc:My burden has been lifted.
Marc:The other thing I did last night at three in the morning is I decided that I smelled something burning in my house and there was nothing burning in my house.
Marc:And I thought maybe I was having a stroke, but I wasn't having a stroke.
Marc:And then I went outside naked because I seem to do that occasionally to see if anything was burning outside.
Marc:There was nothing burning outside.
Marc:And then I didn't know whether or not.
Marc:Uh, I locked the garage.
Marc:So I'm wandering around.
Marc:I think I hear a noise.
Marc:I think I hear music.
Marc:I think I hear maybe someone's, you know, out inside my house and I'm out there naked.
Marc:I'm protected by a gate and I'm checking the door and I sort of panic.
Marc:And I think maybe I locked myself out of my house naked and I, and I'm not paying attention and I smashed my head into a light fixture on the outside of the door.
Marc:So I have a big scratch on my forehead for the holidays and I think I'm getting a cold.
Marc:so that's an update oh my god president baby man ruined christmas for so many people so many people doesn't give a fuck zero fucks the monster in the oval king baby but uh interesting that i think an interesting thing happened
Marc:I'll share it with you.
Marc:I did talk about politics with my father and it was kind of one sided.
Marc:And there's a twist to this.
Marc:You know, he my father is not a political guy.
Marc:He's not that bright when it comes to politics.
Marc:I don't think he knows literally anything, which is, I think, par for the course for a lot of people, certainly Trump voters, which he was.
Marc:And but, you know, he he watches a lot of Fox News and he says things like, you know, that Hannity seems to know what he's talking about.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:OK, so do I. So but I don't know what it was, whether it was firing of Mattis or pulling the troops out or the shutdown.
Marc:I'm not sure what it was, but my dad called me.
Marc:kind of vulnerable in his voice he's like yeah yeah you know uh i guess you were i guess you were right i guess you were right about trump and i'm like uh-huh he goes i don't know i guess you know people just don't know until they know you know and i'm like no i i said a lot of people did know they knew like more than half the country knew we knew i knew you didn't know but i knew
Marc:He's like, yeah, I guess so.
Marc:I guess you're right.
Marc:This might be it.
Marc:Might be the end.
Marc:Might be the big one.
Marc:The big one.
Marc:That generation uses that.
Marc:The big one.
Marc:They're going to drop the big one.
Marc:And I said, yep, that could happen.
Marc:It certainly could.
Marc:But hopefully it won't happen before I see you on Christmas Day.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:He said, yeah, okay.
Marc:I love you.
Marc:I love you too.
Marc:So, we'll see.
Marc:Maybe it's going to be the big one for Christmas.
Marc:I don't know if that would make my dad satisfied or happy or I'm not sure.
Marc:It's hard to hard to tell with narcissistic people whether they just they you know, they especially as they get older, which is what concerns me about the diaper president is that, you know, he you know, he's he's he's the most successful narcissist ever.
Marc:He's literally been able and I've said this before to make everything about him.
Marc:I mean, globally.
Marc:And that's that's the envy of the narcissist community.
Marc:But the fact that he's old and pissed off, I have a feeling that the end game for narcissism is like everything ends with me.
Marc:And when you have a narcissist of the capacity of this president, everything ends with him.
Marc:This is not a good prognosis for the future of the species.
Marc:Yeah, remember the species, folks.
Marc:As you're aggressively mindful, don't mindful yourself out of principle.
Marc:I'm not saying that principle mindfulness.
Marc:I mean, don't self-center and ground yourself mindfully to the point where you give zero fucks about others.
Marc:We have a species here, and it might behoove us all to think in terms of it.
Marc:I'm not being condescending, not virtue signaling.
Marc:Just realize I'm a selfish fuck.
Marc:But at some point, something's going to happen.
Marc:We're going to have to think about the survival of the human race.
Marc:We probably should have been on it, to be quite honest with you.
Marc:So, all right, Topher Grace is here.
Marc:I talked to him.
Marc:He's featured in Black Klansman.
Marc:He plays David Duke, actually.
Marc:It's now available on digital or Blu-ray or DVD.
Marc:You can buy it or rent it.
Marc:And we had a nice conversation.
Marc:I really didn't know what to expect.
Marc:This is me talking to Topher Grace.
Marc:yeah like moving out here like I was living in you know a tiny ass place for a long time and I no longer understood why do you know what I mean it's sort of like I saved some money why am I still in this fucking place yeah well I mean so I moved I didn't I had a woman come into my life and be like oh she did it why the fuck are you living in this place
Guest:where were you i was up in the hills tucked away i had such a great like i had a whole system with the cleaning lady that was like i mean i had someone come once right and i only really ate cereal and this is how much of a bachelor i was there was just a like a uh sink full of yeah like you know cereal bowls and a little bit of milk in them yeah just the last part yeah and maybe one or two pieces of cereal
Guest:I had fake plants that I bought at some set dressing store.
Guest:I would go away for eight months to shoot something.
Guest:I'd come home, go right back into it.
Guest:It all worked.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And by the way, this... I mean, I'm sure she's not listening, but...
Guest:This cleaning lady was... Did you just start to whisper?
Guest:If not, yeah, I'm sorry, Yolanda.
Guest:But we had this thing worked out where she was kind of like a terrible cleaning lady, but she would do the dishes, which I'm honestly not sure I knew how to do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then she would... There was a chair that I put all my clothes on.
Marc:And that was it.
Guest:But I was like, look, I really don't need the place to be that clean.
Guest:You know, it's like clean enough.
Marc:What I need is like do the dishes and please put my clothes away.
Marc:Put the shirts away.
Marc:Please tell me it was like a six bedroom house.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:That's like, no, that's such an LA thing.
Guest:No, it was, it was just like, you know, the problem is I went from, you know, I did like one year of college and I went to the show and,
Guest:you know, you don't, you don't learn looking at the prices on the menus and you just, you just go.
Guest:And so my wife was a wonderful, um, breath of, uh, influence and influence.
Guest:And I don't want to say fresh air is more like responsibility, but well, that's a weird thing.
Marc:Like when I moved out after, even after four years of college and I came out here the first time, I had no fucking idea how to do anything.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, the fact that I got a bed frame for my futon, I had a futon on the floor.
Marc:Yeah, no, I've been there, man.
Guest:And you have no excuse after, women are coming home with you who are like, come on, man, I'm doing this because you're on television.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Would you act like you're on television, please, in your real life?
Marc:Your character seems to have it together.
Marc:Really, so you only finished one year of college?
Guest:Yeah, I had a weird, I had the weirdest story I've ever heard in terms of being discovered.
Guest:Where'd you grow up though?
Guest:I grew up in Connecticut.
Guest:What part?
Guest:Darien, Connecticut.
Marc:I kind of know, I knew someone from Darien, Connecticut.
Marc:I was familiar with Connecticut, because I went to college back there, so I'd drive up and down.
Marc:I went to BU.
Guest:Oh, BU's great.
Marc:Yeah, so I would drive, and even when I started doing comedy, I'd just know that run from New York to Boston.
Marc:Well, that's what I did.
Guest:I went up to Massachusetts to a pre-prep, which goes through ninth grade, and then I went to another prep school in New Hampshire, so I just kept going up.
Marc:Which prep school in New Hampshire?
Guest:Brewster Academy.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:I mean, why prep schools?
Marc:I mean, you seem a little prep school-ish, but I mean- I know.
Marc:I mean, it doesn't surprise me, but-
Marc:But, like, how does one... What surprises me is that you went to college.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:No, no, I'm just kidding.
Marc:I went for five years, even.
Marc:I stayed undergrad as long as I could.
Marc:But, I mean, like, what was your family?
Marc:What did your dad do and shit?
Guest:My situation...
Marc:Darien, Connecticut.
Guest:Again, I'm pretty sure no one's listening in Darien, Connecticut, right?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:You can talk shit about Darien, Connecticut.
Marc:It's okay.
Marc:I knew one woman who I went to college.
Marc:It's just one of those towns.
Marc:I don't have a sense of it.
Marc:But my folks are still there.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:But I will say this.
Guest:I don't think anyone would be surprised.
Guest:It's very myopic.
Guest:And I went to camp one year.
Guest:You know, when something's so myopic, you think it's you.
Marc:Yeah, of course.
Marc:I mean, that's like everything.
Marc:Like wherever you grow up, you're surprised when you leave.
Guest:Well, hopefully.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like it would be bad if you have no surprise and you kind of love, you know.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's really kind of like myopic town.
Guest:But when I went to camp, I met a Jewish kid.
Guest:And I was like- And that was a surprise?
Guest:Fucking great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was like, I got to get the fuck out of here.
Guest:So I literally went home to my folks and said, I just, I don't think this is for me.
Guest:What, Connecticut?
Guest:Yeah, well, that part of Connecticut is like very, the Stanford wives.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:It was shot there.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Like that's the, like you ever see the ice storm?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's there.
Marc:I mean, that was shot there, and that's where it takes place.
Marc:So there were no Jews in Darien?
Marc:Is that the moral of the story?
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:You had to go to camp to meet a Jew?
Guest:There's no anything in Darien.
Guest:I just met someone who was different.
Guest:Like a Jewish kid from Long Island or something, and he was-
Guest:Oh my God, I was like, I mean, he's still a friend of mine.
Guest:Like I was so, what I thought is like, how do I get diverse?
Guest:And sadly, like a rich prep school was like way more diverse than where I was from.
Guest:And it was great.
Guest:I loved it.
Guest:What was the camp though that you went to?
Guest:That was called Interlochen.
Guest:And it wasn't like a crazy diverse place anyway, but I kept trying to, the reason I came to LA is I just, there are a lot of people I grew up with who still want to live there.
Guest:And that is not what I want to do.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So you're growing up there.
Marc:You got siblings?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Younger sister.
Marc:She's out here too.
Marc:Oh, they both left.
Marc:And your dad's like, what do people do in Darien?
Marc:What was his business?
Guest:Well, he was in advertising and then brand identity, but he- He was a copywriter?
Guest:Yeah, he was, no, no, he was in like, he worked at Gray Advertising when I was younger and- In the city?
Guest:Yeah, he was, a lot of guys are bankers.
Guest:So he was a little different, a little more creative, which was cool.
Guest:But he got on the train every day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's what it, it's actually been very hard for me later in life to, I knew no artists when I was younger.
Guest:And what did your mom do?
Guest:She was a homemaker, and now she works at a local school there.
Marc:Yeah, so when did you start?
Guest:I mean, for all your listeners, I've listened to so many awesome episodes of this show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This is so boring, my life.
Guest:I'm so sorry.
Guest:Don't pressure yourself.
Marc:Maybe just start later.
Marc:No, we're going to get there.
Marc:No, but it's not boring.
Marc:There is something about growing up in a place that is so set and kind of like creepy because it's so- Well, when everyone's a swan and you're a duck, right?
Guest:You go like, I'm an ugly piece of shit.
Guest:And everyone was so good at sports.
Guest:And my dad, he coached a lot of these intramural teams.
Guest:So you tried to do sports?
Guest:Yeah, I'd be like, Dad, good news.
Guest:I got the lead in Joseph of the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat.
Guest:He's like, okay.
Guest:And God bless him.
Guest:I mean, my parents, even for living there, were really, really supportive of something that they truly had no information about.
Marc:So you were a theater kid?
Marc:You do it at high school?
Guest:A little bit, but my grades were so bad that I couldn't even really do the plays.
Guest:Really?
Guest:They wouldn't let you do plays because your grades were bad?
Guest:Sometimes, yeah.
Guest:I was just not feeling... When I started going to boarding school, I started working a little harder.
Guest:Is that why they sent you to boarding school?
Guest:Maybe without my knowledge.
Guest:I thought I wanted to go, but maybe they were like, we got to get this kid out of here.
Marc:Because he's going down.
Guest:It was a little bit like, it just wasn't, I was wanting to do stuff with my video camera.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Did you?
Guest:Well, a lot of the time it was like, well, if you finish your homework, you can then, you know, and then you're like.
Guest:You were stuck, man.
Guest:Yeah, I really was stuck.
Guest:And God bless my parents for, uh, for letting me kind of get out and be whatever I was going to be.
Guest:And they were.
Guest:So tell me.
Guest:By the way, they, they ordered a variety when I got 70 show.
Marc:They ordered variety?
Guest:And it came like eight days late in my,
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:But that's how supportive they are.
Guest:They wanted to be in the loop?
Guest:Yeah, my mom would call me and say, I don't know if you missed it.
Marc:They're renegotiating your deal.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:It was like, they're doing a Jurassic Park movie, Jurassic Park 3.
Guest:And I'd be like, well, I'm sure my agent's aware of that.
Guest:But anyway, the weird part of the story is my last year of boarding school, I had the lead in the school play.
Guest:And Bonnie and Terry Turner, they run SNL and they did Wayne's World, Tommy Boy.
Guest:They just won the Golden Globe for Third Rock.
Guest:Their daughter did the sets of this play.
Guest:You went to school with her.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When I came to LA to go to USC for that one year, they called me up and said, do you want to come try it?
Guest:So that's my first audition.
Guest:That's the crazy story.
Marc:So they remembered you from the play?
Guest:Well, I knew their daughter too.
Guest:I mean, I remember seeing them on Mr. and Mrs. Turner, you know, on Parents Weekend and stuff.
Guest:And then-
Guest:And the play was very weird.
Guest:The drama teacher didn't show up a lot.
Guest:So we added... By the way, it was bad, but it was... Joseph and then Technico are a dream coach?
Guest:No, that was... I played like a bush in that thing.
Guest:This was a funny thing happening with the forum.
Marc:And the drama teacher was sort of AWOL most of the time, and you guys just riffed?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm sure most of it sucked, but I'm sure some of these great comedy writers who happened in the audience were like, well, we're not going to find that in LA.
Guest:This kid is weird.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we were doing some weird stuff.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Like we didn't think that was funny enough.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like Sondheim, you know what I mean?
Guest:So like we wanted to- Update?
Guest:Yeah, like add the Macarena or whatever it was like- Oh, you did that kind of stuff?
Guest:Pop culture.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was so weird that I think they- Made an impression?
Guest:They also probably ran through everyone in LA and didn't find someone who was enough of a nerd.
Marc:Well, you don't have to.
Marc:I mean, maybe.
Marc:Why don't we just assume that you were the guy?
Marc:No, I actually know that for a fact.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:For a fact, they've seen a lot of people.
Marc:But let's go back, because I didn't go to boarding school, and I need to know just who you were in that environment.
Marc:This will be so boring, but- What do you mean?
Marc:What are we going to do?
Marc:We already told your origin story, the 70s story.
Marc:I mean, what, are you going to go home now?
Marc:You know, you are right, though.
Marc:Everyone usually just wants to hear that part of it.
Marc:Boarding school.
Marc:No, but I mean, you got to go because you're like you're spiraling.
Marc:You're not doing well in school.
Marc:You're no good at sports.
Marc:Am I accurate?
Marc:You're dead on.
Marc:And you're what?
Marc:Do you have friends?
Marc:Do you have friends?
Marc:No.
Marc:I had one or two friends who I'd say- See, now it's a sad story, Topher.
Guest:Let's make a video with my video camera.
Guest:And they'd be like, what, man?
Guest:Let's- Let's smoke weed and kill an animal.
Guest:I don't know what they want to do.
Guest:Let's play lacrosse or something.
Guest:It was pre-that stuff was when I was at boarding school.
Marc:It was like- That's what I figured.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, okay.
Marc:So, your parents sent you to boarding school.
Marc:What grade?
Guest:Well, so I begged to go to boarding school.
Guest:I think they had to like-
Guest:I mean, they were doing fine, but to say you're going to start paying for college now and then pay for college, it's like, I really, I owe them one.
Marc:Well, you can pay them back.
Marc:You don't have to owe them.
Guest:No, not that much.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:Just a lot of thank yous.
Guest:They sent me, and what I realized right away is that the kids who want to go to boarding school, which is about 5% of the class, love it.
Guest:It's co-ed.
Guest:Everyone thinks it's Dead Poets Society.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's like miniature college.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:But the other 95% are sent there by their parents, and...
Guest:They're the first to get kicked out.
Marc:Like fucked up rich kids.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I always bonded with the kids who, like me, knew how lucky they were to be there.
Guest:And it was great.
Guest:It was like I was talking to girls years before I would have.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it just gets you out of that small town dynamic where everyone knows each other and you're all kind of doomed.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:To be honest, and this will really surprise you, I still wasn't that popular, but I was able to do my thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And people really appreciated, like I made a video yearbook, and I was in the plays and stuff, and I felt like even if they thought I was weird, all right, cool, there's kind of room to do your thing.
Marc:Well, it's weird because most of your characters are the ones that are most memorable.
Marc:They're either earnest or weirdly confident and maybe a little slimy.
Marc:The sliming thing, for sure, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, and you're not really like that, it seems.
Guest:Well, that's nice of you to say.
Guest:I think The Traffic, which was the first movie I was in, and I've done this, I just did it with Spike Lee recently, where I'm in the room with the director.
Guest:In that case, it was Steven Soderbergh.
Guest:They were like, I know these kids.
Guest:I grew up with these kids.
Guest:Please let me play one of these people.
Marc:Oh, In Traffic, yeah, for sure.
Guest:It's just kind of the same thing in Black Klansman.
Guest:You didn't grow up with those people, did you?
Guest:No, but I didn't grow up with anyone who I think was the KKK, but I did grow up with people who were kind of weirdly confident and kind of, you know, David Dukes, he was actually a politician, but before that he was a politician.
Guest:And there's something I really like about that falseness.
Marc:Yeah, okay.
Marc:That makes sense.
Marc:So in these prep schools, though, were you dealing with what level prep school was it?
Marc:Were there Kennedys there or were there like- Who was there?
Guest:I'm trying to think.
Marc:Major families, like heirs?
Guest:No, that's where I was from was kind of like Chloe Sevigny was my babysitter.
Marc:Chloe Sevigny was your baby?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Did her folks live there?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really?
Guest:She's from there?
Guest:She was, uh, we were in plays together.
Guest:She was the tin man and I was the, I was the tin man.
Guest:She was a scarecrow.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, uh, Jamie Vanderbilt, uh, who, uh, wrote Truth, this Cate Blanchett movie I did.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He actually wrote a movie that Chloe was in Zodiac.
Guest:Uh, he was like the wizard, like,
Guest:Really?
Guest:So that town was more kind of like that.
Guest:And then the boarding schools I chose were great, but they were more like a liberal arts town.
Marc:But it seems like there was, obviously, it did nurture some arts, because Chloe, you just assume, was this kind of product of New York weirdness.
Marc:I know.
Marc:And she seems like she's been that way since she was seven.
Guest:Yeah, well, there was... Okay, my Chloe story is, which I think you'll like, is she babysat for us.
Guest:I had such a huge crush on her.
Marc:Of course you did.
Guest:I used to blow her kisses behind her back.
Guest:So she turned it back.
Guest:I mean, I was young.
Guest:And then she shaved off all her hair and moved to New York.
Guest:And then when I was at boarding school, I think senior year, someone said, hey...
Guest:There's this kid's movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Chloe Sevigny's in it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I thought, oh, she's in like a kid's movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like this guy has such a crush.
Guest:This is like my hot babysitter from when I was.
Guest:And so I went to watch the movie.
Guest:And if you didn't know anyone that was raped by a guy with AIDS at the end of that film, it's disturbing.
Guest:But then knowing the person who does get, I was like, I mean, I didn't think about sex for like four days.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which was a record amount of time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:At that time.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, because she's a very odd, unique talent, that person.
Guest:She's great.
Guest:Are you friends with her?
Guest:I saw her at Cannes when we went to Cannes with this thing, and she's so cool.
Guest:She's making her own short films, and I'm sure she felt what I was talking about with that ugly duckling thing times a thousand.
Marc:But are you guys still friends?
Marc:Well, we were never really friends as adults, but I see...
Guest:Yeah, I still, you know, it's not weird.
Guest:I still pay her to come over and babysit.
Guest:You know, it just makes me sleep better.
Marc:It's nice that she's open to that.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:Okay, so you're in boarding school.
Marc:You're feeling better about yourself.
Marc:What kind of plays are you doing there?
Guest:Well, sometimes if you did the sports, you only could do a small part.
Guest:So I mostly like small parts, and then I sprained my ankle doing tennis.
Guest:I got on varsity tennis, which was a big deal, just for me too, because I was like, I can't believe I'm going to get a letter.
Guest:Can you still play?
Guest:No.
Guest:No?
Guest:I mean, maybe a little bit.
Guest:And then I sprained my ankle, and I said, fuck it, I'm going to...
Guest:try out for this play.
Guest:And there was a kid everyone really thought was gonna get it.
Guest:The lead?
Guest:He boycotted the show once I got the lead.
Marc:The kid did?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:And how long did that rivalry last?
Guest:Probably still going on.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I feel bad still.
Guest:Especially because he's probably thinking, if I'd only done that lead, I'd be starring in Black Klansman or something.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:What play was it?
Guest:That was a funny thing.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:That was the game-changing show.
Marc:That was your big break.
Marc:That was everything.
Marc:That play at that boarding.
Marc:So was this at Brewster?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, it really was.
Guest:And then what it really was was when Bonnie Turner called me in college, which I had gone to for film school and then didn't get in.
Guest:Like I was thrice rejected from USC, but I was going to USC general admission.
Guest:I thought, what am I even doing out here?
Guest:And then I think I was like, I was high and
Guest:And I mean, just hanging out in the dorm and someone called on the phone.
Guest:You know, you didn't have cells then.
Guest:She called me on the line.
Guest:In the hallway?
Guest:No, no, it was in, we had them in our room.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And she said, hey, it's Bonnie.
Guest:And I said, Bonnie like ran Saturday Night Live for a while, like very impressive.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I said, Bonnie, who?
Guest:she said bonnie turner and i didn't i said like did we fuck something like that like some kind of thing and she's no it's lindsey's mom oh my god like hey uh paranoid out of my mind why are you calling me and then she said that we're doing this show and she told me the whole plot of the show yeah and i said oh like
Guest:And I was thinking in my mind, like, I don't want to be her assistant, even though it's a great deal.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It'd be great to go be her assistant.
Guest:It doesn't feel it.
Guest:And then she wants you to come try out for the lead.
Guest:And I went like, whoa, like, I guess I'm not doing anything else.
Marc:But you really weren't planning on being an actor at all.
Guest:No, I was truly, when they say undecided, because I'd been rejected from the film squad.
Guest:No idea.
Marc:You wanted to be a director?
Guest:I guess at the time, when I thought I knew what the definition of director was then, yes.
Guest:But now that I know what it is, absolutely not.
Marc:So you're a pretty lost guy, usually.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then, I mean, I would give anyone the advice to be lost at that age.
Guest:It's like the best time to be open to whatever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And when she called me, I remember getting it.
Guest:And you'll understand this, how something good turns crappy so quickly.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It already happened today.
Marc:With this interview, right?
Marc:Yeah, this is going terrible.
Marc:No.
Guest:I got it.
Guest:I mean, they made me audition like 200 times because I think they thought, are we really going to give this kid who went to school with our daughter?
Guest:But it was something they were doing kind of across the board.
Guest:Ashton never acted.
Guest:But at least he was a top model at the time.
Guest:He was?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:But they thought, are we really going to give this kid this role?
Guest:And then they did.
Guest:And I came back to the dorm.
Guest:and it was spring break.
Guest:So like no one was even there.
Guest:I had to stay there to go to the final audition.
Guest:And I walked in, there was like no one in this huge dorm.
Guest:And then I was watching like TV, you know, it was echoing through the whole place.
Guest:And I saw an ad for the X-Files.
Guest:We were going to come on right before the X-Files.
Guest:Like turned to the camera and said, I don't know, whatever the, you know, Fox is number one.
Guest:And I immediately had a headache for a month.
Guest:Because I went, what am I doing?
Guest:I never dreamed that much whatever happened to me.
Guest:But then when we started working on it a month later, then I felt better because it was so tough.
Guest:Tough how?
Guest:I remember the director saying to me during the pilot, great job on that take.
Guest:You didn't face the cameras.
Yeah.
Guest:You didn't know what you were doing.
Guest:I mean, I had no idea.
Guest:And the fact that some of those are rerunning like right now is like crazy to me.
Marc:But who was the creator?
Guest:Mark Brazile.
Guest:Mark Brazile also?
Guest:Yeah, it was the three of them really.
Marc:Yeah, Brazile, I did comedy briefly.
Marc:I just met him I think for the first time recently.
Guest:He's great.
Guest:I just saw him a couple months ago.
Guest:They were so... All of us are so grateful.
Guest:All the kids on that show had very little experience.
Guest:Mila had some experience.
Marc:Mila, Ashton, and who were the other ones?
Guest:Danny had... He'd been on some sitcoms for Percy Warner, but Laura had never acted.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Ashton never acted.
Guest:I mean, Wilmer barely spoke English.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we are...
Guest:Every year that goes by, I realize more and more how lucky I was with that situation.
Guest:I mean, I knew at the time I was lucky, but it's like just to be with those kind of adults who are taking care of you and honestly to get famous with other people, not alone.
Marc:I worked with Don Stark did an episode of my show.
Guest:He's great, man.
Guest:Yeah, he's great.
Guest:So fucking good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's funny.
Marc:He's solid.
Marc:He's a nice little guy.
Guest:Everyone there was like a, I mean, the people who weren't heavy hitters were us at the beginning.
Marc:Who was the guy who played your dad?
Marc:Kurt Woods.
Marc:He did an episode of my show too, actually.
Guest:What's going on, man?
Guest:It seems like kind of personal that you've hired everyone on the show except for me.
Guest:My show's gone and you wouldn't have done it.
Guest:It was on IFC.
Guest:I know my buddy, my best friend, Richie Keene, he directed some episodes.
Marc:Yeah, he did.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's your best friend?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's a nice guy.
Guest:He's a great guy, yeah.
Guest:He did a good job.
Guest:He loves you too, yeah.
Marc:Oh, does he?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you had no, like, so did you ever take any acting or you just learn all of it?
Marc:Can you believe it?
Marc:No, no.
Marc:No.
Guest:no no I think you're good but I mean it's like it's one of those things where because I talk to a lot of actors now and especially now that I'm acting a bit I like talking to actors because yeah I listen to your show I love how you talk about the process of first of all only now do I understand how different stand up is from acting right because I didn't understand what stand up was and I have some friends who do stand up and I think like who um no one no one good no one that I know but I do understand how tough it is and uh
Guest:I love how you've talked about how different a thing it is.
Guest:I actually think it's easier than stand-up.
Guest:That's where I've... Acting?
Marc:Oh, for sure it is.
Marc:Yeah, because you can do this.
Marc:Like, can we do that again?
Marc:Right.
Marc:I mean, just that question.
Guest:Also, when I've seen what it takes, the work, you can kind of... I think Seinfeld says something about this, which is kind of shitting on some of those people in his cast who are very talented.
Guest:But it's true.
Guest:You can walk in the door like I did and just start acting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And maybe you kind of have a skill for it.
Guest:You cannot start doing standup.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:But the weird thing is, is that if somebody is a funny actor, like especially on his show, like Julia Louis-Dreyfus, I mean, she's a fucking genius.
Marc:And there's nothing that Seinfeld will ever do out of his own brain as comedy that will ever be even a little bit as funny as Julia Louis-Dreyfus doing anything.
Marc:that's so interesting yeah yeah yeah you know I actually I mean he can talk for 10 hours I would say though what she has is a learned over a long period of time skill too like she didn't you can't drop in and be like she was but not unlike you there's something about comedic acting that I don't think stand-ups necessarily get you watch most stand-ups do acting they're pretty good at being serious yeah that's so funny that's so true you know that's so true that's actually what you want if you look at the weak link in the cast of Seinfeld it's definitely Jerry Seinfeld
Marc:In terms of acting.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I didn't think I'd shit on Jerry Seinfeld.
Marc:Probably the greatest sitcom of all time.
Marc:No, we're not shitting on him.
Marc:I'm answering his commentary.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, there is people who act who have a natural ability.
Marc:And I think what I've grown to learn after talking to a lot of actors...
Marc:For some people, that's a huge part of it.
Marc:I mean, you can't explain it.
Marc:I mean, there are classically trained people that are amazing and do all these things, but people who just show up and do the task at hand in one character, they can nail it.
Marc:But there's no crime in that.
Guest:Well, I'll tell you two things were my school, which is one, I took a class at the Groundlings in that month that I didn't know...
Guest:Whether you're going to get it or not?
Guest:No, no, I had it.
Guest:I just had to wait, you know, like a month and a half before we started working on it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So like terrified.
Marc:Did somebody recommend you do that?
Guest:No, I think Will Ferrell was on SNL and I said, you know, we didn't have the internet then.
Guest:I was like, how did he led me there?
Guest:And I'm glad I did because it wasn't an acting class.
Guest:It was an improv class.
Guest:And those skills aren't someone imposing something on you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like some method.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's just like, oh, if I go off script, I have the ability to, there's something within me that'll create something.
Guest:So that was really helpful.
Guest:Give you a little confidence.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then, you know, the school really was it like doing it.
Marc:Oh yeah.
Marc:Every day you're getting up, you got to do the whole process of makeup, sit there, get your lines in your head.
Guest:Whenever I hear a young person shit on being a sitcom, I think, what an idiot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, it is the greatest school, like a boot camp or like a graduate school, whatever you want to call it, for acting.
Guest:There's a filmic element, so you learn that.
Guest:There's a live audience, so there's kind of like a theater element.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And when you suck, which you do, especially like me, if you've never acted before, you get back up next week, you do another show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And over...
Guest:I mean, I think everyone on that show would tell you that, that over like, yeah, four or five years, we got good.
Marc:Yeah, you all became very defined characters.
Marc:I mean, if I'm remembering correctly, you were sort of the straight man, right?
Guest:To a lot of the- That was hard for me to learn how to be funny within that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There is a humor, but it's like, there's moments where you're just setting other people up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But all of it was like,
Guest:god it was like uh if you leave liberal arts college and you go to work at a blacksmith yeah like and you're just making horseshoe you know what i mean like yeah your first 80 horseshoes are gonna suck and then you know but were you like working around somebody like kurtwood who's like you know he's a real deal i mean yeah he does i'll tell you something kurtwood told me yeah just recently we had lunch and he is not only one of the great actors he's also just a really great guy yeah
Guest:And he said the first week, I mean, I'm so ashamed of this, but he was so wonderful when he told me this story.
Guest:Because I'd never worked with actors either.
Guest:So it's not just that, like in my audition, I brought like, they said bring up a picture and a resume.
Guest:I said like, what is that?
Guest:And they said, you know, like a picture of you so we can see what you look like.
Guest:And it was like me and my friends at Six Flags.
Guest:That's what I brought.
Guest:And they were like, who is this kid?
Guest:And the resume was like, you know, Dunkin' Donuts and Suncoast Video and whatever.
Guest:You worked at Suncoast Video?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Dunkin' Donuts?
Guest:And Fox knows about it now because I brought that resume in.
Guest:And then...
Guest:So I was like bad at that stuff, but it was charming.
Guest:But then we were doing it.
Guest:There's a way, as you know, to talk to actors.
Guest:And that's a skill that you're learning in tandem with being an actor.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Is also you're only as good as kind of how you communicate with the other actors.
Guest:You mean off screen or on screen?
Guest:Oscar.
Guest:And so the first week, I mean, I didn't even remember this.
Guest:Kurtwood said that he came in and did his line.
Guest:You know, this is rehearsal.
Guest:We still have like five days until we're going to tape it.
Guest:He said his line and I go, oh, sorry, man.
Guest:That's not how I saw you saying it when I read this in my head last night.
Guest:This guy already worked for 25, 30 years.
Guest:RoboCop and Dead Poets Society, like tons of Shakespeare.
Guest:And here's this kid who's like a teen.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's like, that's not how it was in my head.
Marc:And he remembered it.
Guest:I mean, for anyone listening, that is the worst thing you could say to another actor.
Guest:It's like, that's not how it was in my head?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What does that even mean?
Marc:Yeah, I mean, yeah, it is.
Guest:What if I came to you on a set and I gave you a line reading?
Marc:That's like illegal.
Marc:But you don't think like looking back on it, that that was really your intent.
Marc:You were just surprised because you had planned your thing a different way.
Marc:So instead of saying like- Yeah, that's right.
Guest:I wasn't telling him what to do, but I was like, that's not going to jive with what I have prepared, man.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:And Kerwood, this just shows what a wonderful man he is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he really was a real father figure on the show.
Guest:He said, when we went and had lunch, and I sat there like, oh, God, I'm so sorry.
Marc:That's like two, what is it, 20 years later?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He goes, hey, man, you were so good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was really nice of him.
Guest:Because there was a quality that I knew I was doing good, but then I'm sure I was doing so many things wrong.
Marc:I just feel bad for... But when you were on the set, I mean, because...
Marc:I guess like just working, you know, just doing it and getting a chemistry going.
Marc:But when I do things now, like I still, because I haven't done that much TV and I'm doing, I did my show and I'm doing Glow.
Marc:But like I really do, I'm still getting the, I don't know when my coverage is happening.
Marc:I'm still not, like I'm still not hip to, like I'm putting, I'm going all in every time.
Marc:And then someone has to come up to me and go, the camera's not on.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:So I'll just ease up a little bit.
Guest:Those are tricks.
Guest:You know, I agree with you.
Guest:There's either a core thing you have or you don't.
Guest:I know people who are allergic to acting and it will never, no matter how hard they could work at it, you either kind of understand it or not.
Guest:But then to the point you made about Julia Louis-Dreyfus or anyone on that show, because they all had a lot of experience.
Guest:They had gotten to that place over a long period of time.
Guest:And those were pros.
Marc:And you never went back to, you never trained at all.
Guest:No, I always feel like that sounds terrible when I say it.
Guest:You know, the other thing I did that was amazing is when, after the show ended, I went and did a show in New York that Paul Weitz wrote, who I did a Paul Weitz movie, but he wrote a show.
Guest:And that was its own kind of, I've never been the same.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I'd never done one outside of high school plays.
Guest:And that was like a school too because I learned about the way I prepare now for this movie I just did.
Guest:I take months and work on the character.
Marc:Do you?
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Oh yeah, and get so off book.
Guest:I've rehearsed it myself before I go into rehearsal.
Marc:You did the 70s show for like a million years, right?
Marc:For seven years.
Marc:Seven.
Marc:And you're doing like 23 a year, right?
Guest:Yeah, there was one year because of the strike or an impending strike that we did 29 or something.
Guest:They were really, we didn't know how to say no.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So we did the most you could do.
Marc:Did you get to a point, like at what point were you like, what happens after this?
Marc:Is this the life for me?
Marc:Because a lot of people don't survive television.
Guest:Sitcom thing, yeah.
Guest:Especially the sitcom thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, the first year, some people went to do movies.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I read a bunch of, you know, Titanic had come out like two years before.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So there was kind of a lot of teen.
Guest:Well, how old were you?
Guest:Fair.
Guest:I was 18 or 19.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was 18 during the pilot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so there was a lot of like teen stuff and you'd get paid and, and it looked fun.
Guest:You know, you'd go up to Canada and you're in some hotel with a bunch of people your age and who knows what happens.
Guest:But I'd read these scripts and just think, I mean, granted, I'd never read scripts before.
Guest:I was like, this just doesn't seem good.
Marc:I'm bad at reading scripts.
Marc:They never seem good.
Guest:well you know most of them aren't good oh is that true uh in my experience yeah so we're there kind of like something else yeah but i thought so i sat out the first summer after the first year yeah and i came back you know it really is like there's a summertime and you come back for fall semester of 70s show or whatever and everyone done these movies and i went oh man maybe i kind of made a mistake like
Marc:Well, now you got to wait a year.
Marc:Like, you know, if you're on a Netflix show.
Marc:Oh, you have time off.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's like a year.
Marc:Like we shoot 10.
Marc:You guys are shooting 23.
Guest:I'm so jealous.
Guest:Everyone wants the gig you have right now.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I like Julie Roberts wants that gig.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like everyone wants that gig.
Guest:So congrats.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Thank you very much.
Marc:So when did you finally kind of break out and do something else?
Guest:I think I made a deal with myself that I just wouldn't do anything.
Guest:I'd rather just not be an actor at the end of the experience, because I hadn't wanted to be an actor.
Guest:I wasn't one of those kids who had a, my speech wasn't planned in the shower, my speech or whatever.
Guest:So I just thought, maybe I'll just kind of not act after this.
Guest:Who knew when it was going to end either?
Guest:But you guys were doing good.
Marc:By the second or third season, you were making some money.
Guest:Yeah, but I don't, I know by the time, basically it was all the things I said no to that I credit.
Guest:Not when I got traffic, it was like, oh, well obviously I'm going to do this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that wasn't hard.
Guest:It was saying no to a bunch of kind of seductive things.
Guest:And no, I remember at that time we weren't, we were like picked up, but the show, you know, the show really didn't hit until like the fifth season.
Yeah.
Guest:Really?
Guest:It was like on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I credit two things, which is one, we got better as actors.
Guest:It took a while.
Guest:And two, Ashton really blew up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that brought just the... It was the tipping point for us.
Guest:Ashton is like...
Guest:I learned a lot from that guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he had as much experience as I had when we started, which is zero.
Guest:But he is the king of commitment.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm not even sure if someone who had more experience could teach you this lesson because I think people would be wary if they'd been in the business longer.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That guy, no matter what it was, the writers were great on that show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But once in a while, there's something maybe you don't want to do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Ashton would not only do it, he'd do it at like a thousand.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the audience would be, I'd go, this is not even a good joke.
Guest:And the audience is rolling around.
Guest:And he'd do everything like, it was great.
Guest:I really- All in.
Guest:Yeah, he was really, and that's an important lesson to learn, especially in comedy, like right away.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Commit all the way.
Marc:Yeah, that's I think the big fear, like certainly as a comic where-
Marc:You don't have much say in it, necessarily.
Marc:And you know, like, no, this joke's horrible.
Guest:I'd love to see you on the set of Glow.
Guest:How does this go down when you don't like something?
Marc:No, they kind of, the character is kind of built around me.
Marc:So, like, in the sense that it's not inherently a comedy.
Marc:It's not a joke-to-joke show.
Guest:No, no, but let's say you just don't like something you're doing.
Guest:How does that...
Marc:Oh, I'll say that.
Marc:Oh, I'm not surprised.
Guest:But then how does it go?
Marc:Well, I mean, usually it doesn't happen that often because it's a big cast and usually my scenes are pretty tight.
Marc:And after the first season, even after the first few scripts, they were able to kind of write in my voice and stuff.
Guest:That's the most wonderful thing about television.
Guest:That's like the miracle of television is that these writers are in this symbiotic thing with you.
Marc:Right.
Marc:so like it's really it comes down to character issues and if it's a word or a line i mean i'll just say it different and and then and then the writer will come up to me and go like okay that's good but can you say the one that and then what do you say well i give them all the versions you know because i don't yeah because i don't what do i know i i mean i i know i know how to write for myself but but sometimes like uh maybe they maybe it's not it's very important to me in that moment but you gotta you gotta assume that they know what they're doing
Guest:Yes, that's the whole end game of the thing for me has been like just working with the right people.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because it's full trust either way.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And it's like a lot of times, unless it's like a real character thing where I'm like, this guy wouldn't do that.
Marc:And I think they can miss that.
Marc:And I imagine in a broader sitcom, that probably happens a lot where it's just sort of like it's a joke for a joke's sake, you know.
Guest:I think we were pretty good compared to other shows that had young people in terms of playing ball.
Guest:I think a lot of other shows that were on at the time, but a lot of these younger casts will kind of, I think they're scared.
Guest:I think they're coming from a place that they'll look foolish or something.
Guest:And the good thing about that whole cast is no one minded looking foolish, which is, you know, you're halfway there.
Marc:And I knew that.
Marc:I mean, I grew up in that time, so it was nostalgia for me, but I knew, like, I was kind of familiar with that world.
Guest:I grew up with people saying that to me because I was on the show, but now I have people saying, like, man, I grew up on that show.
Marc:On that show, yeah.
Guest:Didn't they do an 80s show, too?
Guest:They did.
Guest:How long did that go?
Guest:Do you know Glenn Howerton?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was the star of that 80s show.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:He was, like, my counterpart on that show, yeah.
Marc:I didn't realize that.
Marc:I didn't watch it.
Marc:Was it on a while?
Marc:Nope.
Marc:So with movies, so Traffic was your first movie?
Guest:Yeah, so that experience was... I kind of was hovering around like I want to do something better, but then to get something that's that good with a director that's that... I mean, talk about having trust in a director.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I can't even imagine.
Marc:He does a lot of different things.
Marc:He's very good.
Marc:I have no sense of what he's like as a person, but he certainly takes risks.
Guest:He's so easygoing, though.
Guest:I have the same thing with Chris Nolan.
Guest:I thought before I went to work with him, I thought, oh my gosh, this guy's going to be...
Guest:Like so intense because the material is so good.
Guest:And it's just the opposite.
Guest:It's so loose and traffic was like, you know, he operates the camera.
Guest:Oh, he does.
Guest:And he does these kind of jump cuts.
Guest:So he'll kind of, I mean, you know, when someone's yelling at you from Video Village, like, you know, be happier.
Guest:This guy, he'll just like pop the camera off his shoulder for a second and,
Guest:And say like, yeah, do that again and try to put the cocaine on top of the thing.
Guest:And man, I was really spoiled by that.
Marc:I just work with a director who has a mic at Video Village.
Marc:There's loudspeakers on the set.
Guest:I would say I don't like that.
Guest:I'd say that is the opposite.
Guest:Why don't you have someone who's just at home and just kind of Skyping in, you know?
Guest:I'm sure it's going to happen.
Marc:It's only a matter of time.
Marc:But your part in that story, that was so menacing and horrible.
Marc:That's a disturbing bit of business, that movie.
Guest:Well, I'll tell you something that happened after that was, because I cut my hair, which I'd grown long for the 70s.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I went to the Golden Globes with Erica Christensen, who was the girl in it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And everyone was coming up.
Guest:She was the one who got strung out?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And everyone's like, you're great.
Guest:And she'd say, and Topher's in it.
Guest:What part did you play?
Guest:Because my hair was long in for the show.
Guest:And I was like, what?
Guest:And I was like, no one's going to know because these things are too different.
Guest:I should have done like a wacky comedy that's kind of like set.
Guest:And only like, you know, five or six years later, I'm like, oh my God, this is great.
Guest:Like I should totally do shit that doesn't, you know, it's not good for money.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's what I've learned.
Guest:Like it's not good for money to do things that are totally different because no one can get...
Guest:no one can monetize it.
Marc:Cause you're typecast and they think that they're not going to be, you're not.
Guest:if you're typecast, then you make money.
Guest:Cause you go, Oh, that's what I expect.
Marc:Well, that's what I mean.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But if you do something that's way outside of what they expect out of you, then they think they can't even track it.
Guest:They go, what is this?
Guest:And you know,
Guest:I'm still doing it.
Marc:So you just went back to the 70s show and you felt like no one noticed your performance?
Guest:Yeah, this is horrible.
Guest:No one knows I was even in that movie.
Guest:And the truth is, yeah, the people watching Traffic were not watching that 70s show.
Guest:But over a long period of time, it's the way I get it up.
Guest:doing lots of different, you know what I mean?
Marc:Sure, yeah, for sure.
Marc:Well, I mean, that scene, like, that was some heavy, you know, I mean, I just talked to Michael Douglas, and he's like, he's a heavy actor, really, no matter what kind of casual kind of, you know, happy-go-lucky guy he seems.
Guest:No, no, no, no, you don't even know, man, that first day,
Guest:The first day I had ever on film.
Guest:I never shot something outside of a studio.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I never shot outdoors before.
Guest:We're in this car and I have this speech where I'm telling him off.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, he's got an Oscar already.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I'm like, listen to me, you piece of shit, or whatever my speech is to him.
Guest:And I guess the third take, because Stephen doesn't do a lot of takes, the third take, he goes, just lose it on this kid.
Yeah.
Guest:Like just for his reaction, just lose it on him.
Marc:You didn't know he said that to him?
Guest:I mean, you can't play it back now, but I have a very strange reaction at the end of the speech I give him where I go from like a full smile into like a, like I'm about to cry.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's from that, he lost it on me in this car.
Guest:We're sitting in this car.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That part wasn't used in the movie.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:But he loses on me so hardcore.
Guest:And I thought like, I mean, no idea what was happening.
Guest:Was it, did it seem personal?
Guest:Oh, beyond.
Guest:I mean, I didn't know what was going on in the moment.
Guest:And then, you know, afterwards they both came up to me and said, hey, rock star, you're fucking awesome.
Guest:And I was like, whoa, where am I?
Guest:I did like a photo shoot with him a couple of years ago.
Guest:Like I love Michael and that was my, he really popped a cherry.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What was he yelling at you?
Guest:You know, I now realize it was improvised, but he was like... You know, I'm like really telling... I don't know if you remember the scene, but I'm really telling him off.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which is so ironic because I'm like... I got his daughter hooked on smack, but I'm telling him about how drugs affect different neighborhoods and stuff.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And he's like the drug czar, right?
Marc:Yeah, he's the drug czar of America.
Guest:So he started yelling at me, and he's not fucking around.
Guest:You're right.
Guest:When he...
Guest:Turns on the Douglas, which, you know, it runs in the family.
Guest:You know, he just, he lost on me.
Guest:And then when they said cut, he kind of grabbed me and went like, that was great.
Guest:And I went like, where am I?
Yeah.
Guest:after he just abused you almost made you cry and some of that stuff was so hardcore it was before it I kind of made a promise to myself like I want to do good stuff but when I finished that film and then saw it later that year I went that's it like I just have to be in good things I don't care if I ever get paid or you know I don't care what or at the very least I have to be in the pursuit of being in something I believe in and the experience is good you like doing films
Guest:Oh, yeah, I mean, yeah, I love it.
Guest:And playing different things.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I saw, like, I really like that movie, In Good Company.
Guest:Oh, man, me too.
Marc:Yeah, Paul Weitz is... That's the guy you did the play with, too?
Guest:Yeah, Paul and Chris wrote and directed American Pie and then About a Boy.
Guest:And that was Paul's first time directing alone.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they've had so much success.
Marc:I just thought it was a sweet movie.
Marc:And you got to work with Quaid, who's like another.
Marc:He was in Traffic.
Marc:I actually knew him from Traffic, yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's great.
Marc:That was great because he was sort of a slimy lawyer.
Guest:And he was actually in Truth, this Cate Blanchett movie I did two years ago.
Guest:And it's like, we've worked together a lot.
Marc:Wait, that was the one with Robert Redford?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's right.
Marc:But he's another guy that's got really surprising range.
Guest:But I tell you, a lot of what I'm talking about, he feels very strongly about trying different things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The more you go at it that way, the more you meet people who are like that, who are willing to take... I mean, that guy, he's taking some really cool risks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:the Amy Schumer show.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:He'll just be doing stuff.
Guest:I went and did Workaholics because he said I'm going to do Workaholics.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, it'll be a lot of fun, yeah.
Guest:Which movie did you do with Nolan?
Guest:I have a small part in Interstellar.
Marc:Oh, that's right.
Marc:That's a crazy movie.
Guest:I did you know I'm talking about now like it's all one chunk yeah I've been acting for so long like to be honest there was a period where I did more romantic comedies than I you know I did get into a little bit of a rut for me which ones I don't know Valentine's Day
Guest:That would be one of them.
Guest:But I did have a thing where- With Gary Marshall.
Guest:Stop, stop, Gary.
Guest:Gary Marshall.
Guest:I loved Gary.
Guest:I mean, look, that's one of the better ones because you're doing a rom-com and it's like opposite Anne Hathaway and Gary Marshall's directing.
Guest:And if you're going to do one, it's with- Look at everybody in that movie.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:But I had a thing where after a period there, I went like, I said to my agents kind of a similar thing, which was I want to try different stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Interstellar was the first of like the new stuff.
Guest:By the way, I'm no longer with those agents.
Guest:They were like, no.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I just, I said, I don't want to do that.
Guest:And they kind of say, okay, so one more for the money.
Guest:And then it's like.
Guest:Oh, that's what they, did they say it?
Guest:I said, no, no, zero more for the money.
Guest:Like, I really want to, this was kind of from Interstellar on, I've really been working on stuff that I really dig.
Marc:Do you have stuff that, like, I mean, is there stuff out there that you're like, oh, embarrassed about?
Guest:No, nothing I'm embarrassed about because I went into everything with the best of intentions.
Guest:You know what it was?
Guest:You start going, wait, I've done all these moves before.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I'm not having a good day on set.
Guest:This might even be a hit, as Valentine's Day was.
Guest:It was a huge hit.
Guest:But when I go to set, that's not an exciting day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm thinking about the result instead of just what it is for me.
Guest:And a lot of this stuff, like Truth, I don't know if you saw War Machine, but David Michaud, I think, is an amazing director.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And also being able to work with Brad Pitt and Cate Blanchett and stuff.
Guest:And some of those movies didn't work.
Guest:Truth didn't really hit that hard.
Marc:I saw Truth.
Marc:I thought that was good.
Marc:I didn't see War Machine.
Guest:I loved it, too.
Guest:I loved every day of those movies.
Guest:I mean, Interstellar, being on that set.
Guest:I was like, I don't even care if this comes out just to watch Chris Nolan direct.
Guest:yeah for like three weeks i just sat around watch like it's like watching kubrick right do his thing so to me now what it's about i didn't think black klansman would hit as hard as it did i just wanted to work with spike lee and i was like this part's amazing and well i mean i think that's a good move i mean if you can afford to make that move why not do it i mean you only live once right
Marc:I did have a thing.
Guest:It's funny, I just turned 40.
Guest:And I did have a thing where I had met my wife or the woman who's going to become my wife.
Guest:And I was like, I feel pretty.
Guest:Like, what am I doing this for?
Guest:I'm just going to die.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:Like, how many more years do I, you know, hopefully a bunch, but like, why don't I just do exactly what I want to do?
Guest:And luckily I have a manager who was like...
Guest:Just keep going, one of them will hit.
Guest:Just do what you are really proud of.
Guest:And I just want to work with these great auteurs that are like, it's inspiring.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:So how did the Spike Lee part happen?
Guest:I just read a lot now.
Guest:I read a ton of scripts.
Guest:I said, send me the new, anyone I like, and Spike's one of them, who's a great auteur.
Guest:I said, send me their stuff.
Marc:If he's got a thing coming out, that kind of thing?
Guest:Yeah, but when I read it, my people would say, there's nothing in it for you.
Guest:I said, no, no, I think I have a take on David Duke.
Guest:It was just like silence.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:on the other end of the phone your agents yeah i don't think they were against it but they're like whoa huh um and they said you're gonna they talked to him they said you're gonna have to go in and like audition because uh no one's seen you you know do anything like that yeah absolutely uh you know you gotta it's on you it's a proof of concept or something so what'd you do what'd you do to prepare what
Guest:The night before, I was reading these sides alone in my office at home, like my wife had gone to bed, and I couldn't say some of the words out loud.
Guest:I'm sure you have the comedian friends who have figured out a way to use certain words
Guest:They're trying to find the humor in the word or something.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:I mean, you at some point say them alone just to disarm them or you can... I don't know what it is.
Guest:You know, there's people... I'm not one of the people.
Marc:I never tried to use certain words ever.
Marc:Well, no, you don't definitely... You usually don't want to integrate them into conversation, but conversations have been had certainly...
Guest:sometimes yeah I'm one of those people like I'm just a boy scout about it I couldn't find the humor in it or the so you had to say what the n-word a bunch of different words yeah and then it's offensive on a because he's kind of an intellect which is bizarre in that world you know what I mean so like
Marc:Yeah, they're the dangerous ones.
Marc:The ones rewriting history and foretelling the future.
Guest:Oh, I mean, in his case, like, really.
Guest:So, done as much research as I could on him.
Guest:You know, I only had a couple days.
Guest:Oh, you're watching tapes of him talking and stuff?
Guest:Oh, yeah, but it pales in comparison to what I was doing once I got the role, which was, like, just the most depressing.
Guest:It was, like, the worst month of my life.
Guest:It was, like, really terrible.
Guest:The shooting of it was really fun, but all the stuff leading up to it once I got it was, like, you know, I read his autobiography, which is...
Guest:Oh, here, I see it on your bookshelf.
Marc:No.
Marc:It's just research, man.
Marc:It's right next to my comp.
Marc:That's what I would have to tell someone.
Guest:By the way, I would read it on a plane, and I'd be like, oh shit, I can't bring this on a plane, so I'd put a dust jacket of something else on it, and still the person looking over at me like, what the fuck is this book about this guy's reading?
Guest:I mean, it's just, you have to read it alone.
Guest:So is it a racist manifesto, basically?
Guest:Yeah, it's his Mein Kampf.
Guest:It's kind of his autobiography, I guess, but it's more like,
Guest:It's horrible.
Guest:You feel complicit reading the words.
Guest:And then I was watching these film scenes that they sent to me from the 70s, and then listening to a bunch of his radio show for his voice, because that doesn't age, really.
Guest:And then the best was I watched- Is he still on radio?
Guest:Is he still doing?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Oh, I've heard his, I mean, I shouldn't say this on the air, but I've heard his thing about the movie.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:I mean, imagine watching Fox News, but it's about you.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:Because he was talking about having his reactions.
Guest:People were asking me in press.
Guest:They're like, did you meet him?
Guest:And I was like, fuck no.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:I don't want to meet this guy.
Guest:Ever want to have a conversation with him?
Marc:But the best thing was- But he reacted to the movie?
Guest:Yeah, he tweeted about it.
Guest:My wife was like, wake up.
Guest:David Duke just tweeted about you.
Guest:What did he say?
Guest:You know, all of his stuff is, the reason I say Fox News is because it's like you're looking at the same story that you know, but you feel like it's really twisted in this weird way.
Guest:Like his tweet was, what did I say?
Guest:I said to an interviewer around when it came out in Cannes, I said, did this long interview about how evil he was and how I tried to, you know, when you're playing a bad guy, you try to see their point of view.
Guest:I really couldn't, so I just played kind of evil and,
Guest:I just went on about how much I didn't like him.
Marc:That you couldn't take on the way he thought.
Guest:Yeah, I think you're supposed to as an actor with most maybe fictional villains say like, well, here's why I think the Joker is the way he, you know, I see it compassionately from his side.
Guest:But it has such ramifications on politics today.
Guest:I mean, the news we were watching at the time that I was doing it that I couldn't go there with him.
Guest:So I...
Guest:Gave this whole interview about how I thought he was terrible.
Guest:And one of the things I said is I watched a lot of Donahue because he was on Donahue and he had sway with the crowd.
Guest:I mean, they were booing him at first and then he was so good with them.
Guest:It really showed me how evil he was that he could kind of work the crowd a little bit.
Guest:And that I noticed he said, make America great again and America first.
Guest:Those are like, and they really stand out.
Guest:In the 70s.
Guest:I don't know who's watching Donahue episodes now.
Marc:It was in the early 80s.
Guest:Oh, in the early 80s.
Guest:But to hear them now, you know, is like crazy.
Guest:And we worked into the film.
Guest:And so when I was, I don't know, this article came out, I guess.
Guest:And he said in his tweet, this is how twisted this guy is.
Guest:He goes, thank you, Topher.
Guest:I agree that Donald Trump ripped off those quotes.
Guest:I'm with you.
Guest:I was like, wait.
Marc:Oh, no.
Marc:So now you got to deal with that.
Marc:Your pal, your new friend.
Guest:I mean, I was like, I couldn't have been more clear, you know.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:No, he just appropriated it.
Marc:He just absorbed you into his darkness.
Marc:Yeah, it was really.
Marc:How'd you handle it?
Guest:I didn't do anything on Twitter because I'm not very active on that.
Guest:And I, I didn't want to be in a conversation with him.
Guest:So I guess I talked about it on like Nightline or something.
Guest:A sad side effect of it is that it does put some light on him, which is, you know, what he kind of feeds on.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I, I hope that it, it more shows you what an idiot he is.
Guest:The good side of it is that it means that it is affecting people.
Guest:Uh,
Guest:You know, it really, I mean, that's what's great about being in a movie by Spike is that you actually, you know, it's such a frustrating time to be anybody.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, what kind of voice does anyone have?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was like, oh yeah, we can kind of, we're on a national level.
Guest:We're kind of saying something.
Guest:I mean, Spike's saying something.
Guest:We're helping him say something.
Guest:You know, we put that America First thing and that wasn't in the script.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And it pops too.
Guest:And yeah, it was in the trailer.
Guest:I was like, you know, did Trump see this?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I know he watches TV.
Marc:Yeah, he probably did.
Marc:You haven't heard from Trump yet on Twitter?
Guest:No, I know that Focus was really hoping for a tweet.
Guest:It would have been...
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:They were hoping just a little negative.
Guest:That's another $10 million if we just get a little bit of something.
Marc:Negative press from the president would be great.
Marc:So that's interesting, though.
Marc:In your process, as you say that you engage it, you couldn't find empathy for the guy.
Guest:Well, it's really because we just had a daughter and it was our first.
Guest:And I was like watching the news.
Guest:This was before I got the part.
Guest:And you're like, how do you, you know, how can you, I mean, everyone has this problem right now.
Guest:No one knows what to do.
Guest:And then, I mean, it was cathartic.
Marc:How do you guide your new child?
Guest:Yeah, like what kind of world am I bringing this person into?
Guest:And then getting the project was cathartic because you're like, oh, wow, I have a way to kind of process this.
Guest:And it was great.
Guest:When we were in Cannes and Spike was speaking and you felt like the world was really listening, you went, I'm so proud to be a part of this.
Guest:I'm not sure Valentine's Day had the same effect.
Guest:On the world, no?
I don't know.
Marc:What was it like working with Spike as a director on your tour of auteurs?
Marc:How did he work with you?
Guest:He's like, I mean, if you ever get the chance, man.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I'll put a call in.
Marc:Topher said I should try to get a chance.
Marc:I'll let my mom tell you when the variety comes.
Marc:That'd be great.
Marc:I'll give you my number.
Guest:Spike is, I mean, like the greatest.
Guest:It was like the tone of that movie is so- It's an interesting tone.
Guest:I mean, like I didn't think we got it on the set.
Guest:I knew I really trusted Spike and he's great, but I was like, how is this possible to have this much funny stuff in it?
Guest:And then when I saw it, I went, this is why you got to work with guys like this.
Guest:I mean, he is-
Guest:And he was great.
Guest:We did all of the Klan stuff in one week, and that week was really rough for me.
Guest:We'd be improvising stuff, and he'd come up and be like, hey, so give the Nazi salute, yell white power, and then I'm going to have these 300 people behind you start yelling white power.
Guest:And I was like...
Guest:okay, he's like, also, we're going to run Birth of a Nation in front of you, but we're going to do the lynching scene.
Guest:I was like, oh, my God.
Guest:And then you're doing it, and you know how it is.
Guest:You're doing five takes, and I just was so... I'm not a method guy.
Guest:I'm not someone who brings it home with me ever, but I'd kind of be in the corner, and he's so good at coming up to you and being like, hey, man, don't worry, I'm Spike Lee.
Guest:This is going to be fine.
Guest:I know this feels bad, but it's going to be cut with other stuff.
Guest:You're serving my message.
Guest:And he was right.
Guest:When I saw it, I went, oh, man.
Guest:But that's a lot of trust.
Guest:I was saying to someone in Cannes, I don't want to play David Duke.
Guest:I want to play David Duke in a Spike Lee joint.
Guest:I don't want to be David Duke in the David Duke TV movie or whatever.
Guest:Even if he's portrayed as a total bad guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I only want to do it.
Guest:I honestly don't know another director I could do it with.
Guest:And how's the feedback been?
Guest:My experience was that I believe it's because I did a good job, but when we were in Cannes, the first time we saw it, and it was, you know, it's in front of like 2,000 people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it got a 10-minute standing ovation.
Guest:And they can boo you over there.
Guest:Have you been to Cannes?
Guest:No.
Guest:I'd never been before.
Guest:So you walk up this red carpet, and it's all different.
Guest:It's like a mile-long red carpet, and people are...
Guest:cheering you and then you go into the theater and they can boo afterwards too so it's not like they're definitely gonna cheer and this film hit so hard I mean it was like so of the moment uh what they didn't tell me is at the end they bring out a video camera and they put it on your face yeah so like you know like the credits end yeah and then there's a picture of like Adam Driver's face on the screen I was like oh my god we're live yeah and the whole audience is applauding and yelling French you know like
Guest:you know fantastic super cool and then you know then it goes to john david washington everyone's cheering and then it comes over for my close-up and just kind of stops like it wasn't negative but like people were standing just kind of like yeah not applauding and then it went over to laura and then you know they start throwing roses and applauding again and i was like i think it's because i was good yeah i you know what i mean like but i i mean you can't applaud that guy after the that's right yeah but that's kind of what people have been coming in interviews they're like good job
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I guess you felt very comfortable with it.
Marc:I think that's good, but it's, you know what I mean?
Marc:But it's part of the, I guess it's part of playing somebody like that.
Guest:I'll tell you, I knew because we were talking about 70s, which I, you know, I rarely do this long form stuff.
Guest:Like I knew going into it, the amount of, what would you call it?
Guest:Like the real estate I had of like good guyness, that character.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And certainly playing other characters have been a little sliming.
Guest:I've been happy to do.
Guest:But I thought, yeah, I'm going to turn up to 11.
Guest:And it's going to be confusing if Richie Cunningham played that character.
Guest:Yeah, you know what I mean?
Guest:It would feel about as evil to me as the character should feel.
Guest:So I dug that part of it where people are a little confused.
Marc:Yeah, it's nice.
Marc:It's nice to dirty up one of America's good guys.
Marc:I'm talking about you, Topher.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I'm not talking about David Duke.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:Like people know you as a certain way, but you've, but you've evolved.
Marc:I mean, people have seen you in enough things where you, I don't think they were crazy.
Guest:I mean, I don't think it's one of those like putting the rug out front of you, but I think it is a little bit, uh, yeah, whatever that feeling of that queasiness, I think is good for that.
Marc:It's exciting.
Marc:So what, what was this other one that you just got done that you said you had to immerse yourself in?
Guest:Oh, that wasn't, I do it for everything now.
Guest:That was a total opposite.
Guest:I play preacher.
Guest:It's like, it couldn't be the more, I just love doing the opposite of whatever the last thing is I did.
Guest:But I just rehearse the shit out of it now.
Guest:I never, I used to kind of show up on set, you know, you're looking at the sides and- Put it in your head.
Guest:Yeah, and I wasn't, I mean, these aren't movies I'm ashamed of, but ever since I did that play, I'm not fucking around.
Guest:Like I hire someone to come to my house.
Guest:And run lines with you?
Guest:Oh, not first run lines and then rehearse and- What, an acting coach?
Guest:No, this is a guy who actually doesn't act.
Guest:He just is, I asked my wife to do it once or twice and she was like, you got to hire someone.
Guest:Like, I'm not going to sit here and run lines for hours and hours.
Guest:So he doesn't act, you just want to run the lines.
Guest:Yeah, I actually don't want to act.
Guest:Towards the end, I'm kind of starting to try my stuff, but you don't want to lock in a performance because that might not be what it's going to be.
Guest:But I want to be so ready now.
Guest:But you know what I learned is that there's like an epidemic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know if you have this on Glow.
Guest:which is probably not a lot of great acts, but maybe with like some guest cast or something.
Guest:Like people really don't know their lines.
Guest:I know, dude.
Marc:Yeah, maybe.
Marc:But you've seen that change since you've been in the game?
Marc:No.
Marc:Oh, it's always been that way.
Guest:I always knew my lines.
Guest:I just didn't know them.
Guest:You can go as deep as you want.
Guest:And my thing now is like, I don't ask for someone else's permission.
Guest:I'm like really doing the work beforehand.
Guest:So what I hate about when someone doesn't know their lines isn't that they don't get it.
Guest:Because you can get it or they can sew it together with editing by cutting to someone else.
Guest:They'll figure it out.
Guest:It's that that was the only take that worked.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like if you got five takes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Your first take, if you know your lines and you got an opinion about it, can be good.
Guest:And then you can be trying other stuff.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Your performance is going to be better because the editor has all this, you know, clay to work with.
Guest:Some of these people I've worked with, by the way, I've worked with a lot of people who are great, but there's nothing worse, too, for me, when it's like a young person who comes in, it's just kind of like, this is day one.
Guest:I get so bummed because they knew they had the part, they had the script.
Marc:And they didn't do it.
Guest:Well, it's just to their own detriment.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I've seen that a couple of times where I'm pretty good at memorizing lines and I'll get them pretty good in my head, but you're inspiring me to maybe go more with it.
Marc:But I think the reason people get lazy, especially with movies or television, is that you're doing these two-minute chunks and you're gonna spend four hours on that.
Marc:So I think the laziness is- Well, you can get it.
Guest:So why do the work?
Guest:And the answer is, I guarantee you- It'll be better.
Guest:Well, I guarantee you that Tom Hanks is doing work before he comes to the set.
Guest:Of course, yeah.
Guest:It's just not a coincidence.
Guest:All these people that I really respect are-
Guest:You know what I heard?
Guest:I mean, I don't know if anyone would care about this, but it really changed how I approach things.
Guest:That when Meryl Streep is offered a film, I don't even know if this is true.
Guest:I mean, I didn't hear it from her.
Guest:But I think she is a makeup person and a hair person on Retainer.
Guest:In New York.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she, uh, so when they officer Margaret Thatcher or whatever, she doesn't say yes to the offer yet.
Guest:She goes, puts on all the makeup, gets with the dialect person, puts on the hair.
Guest:I mean, she's not a magician.
Guest:I mean, she needs to work like everyone else.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I mean, look, she's better than probably anyone else on the planet, but like she still does all of it.
Guest:Then she films herself doing it, doing a couple of scenes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then if she sees it and she likes it, she says, yeah.
Guest:So that's why she wins an Oscar every time.
Guest:It's because she already did the whole process and goes like- I can be that person.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then when she shows up on set, you go, she's magic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's probably just a ton of hard work.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Plus she's the best ever to live.
Marc:But I agree with you.
Marc:I think that there are people-
Marc:That either because they've been at it a long time or because they got in it to get away with it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Oh man, you can see that in people's eyes too.
Guest:You know, I feel the same way about working with these auteurs.
Guest:That's what really changed it for me through osmosis kind of around them.
Guest:Did you go to the Kubrick exhibit here?
Guest:Oh yeah, I did.
Guest:I did, yeah.
Guest:So I'm looking at all these props.
Guest:This is right before I went to do Interstellar.
Guest:And it was like...
Guest:Do you see all the research he'd done on Napoleon?
Guest:Which he never even made, by the way.
Guest:Yeah, it's crazy.
Guest:But the chair from 2001, I think I knew I had Interstellar.
Guest:So it was like, I was like, oh man, I'm about to go do a 2001 type movie.
Guest:The chair had this whole story next to it, which by the way, I still remembered from the movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That probably because he did so much work on it, he got with the biggest chairmaker at the time or the best chairmaker.
Guest:And they spent months saying, what would a chair be like if it was in zero gravity?
Guest:I mean, he did that much work on just the fucking chair.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And of course, yeah, I still remember it.
Guest:It's not just like, yeah, that chair looks futuristic.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:So we did that much work on just that one chair.
Guest:And you have to imagine on every dial and knob that's in 2001, that's why it feels real.
Guest:So I go on the set of Interstellar and I open up, you know, that house, most of my scenes were in that house, Jessica Chastain.
Guest:I open up the cabinets and it's got like,
Guest:corn puffs and corn syrup and corn flakes and microwavable popcorn.
Guest:And I was like, hey, Chris, what's your obsession?
Guest:What's going on here?
Guest:Why so much corn?
Guest:And he told me this story for like half an hour about how he got with a futurist
Guest:And they thought, well, the country's reliance on corn syrup right now is such that we'll only have corn products by the year or whatever.
Guest:And that never played.
Guest:They never showed someone.
Guest:I mean, maybe if you open the cabinet and zoom in, you can see that they're all corn products.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it wasn't like he showed shots of everyone using corn all the time in a bunch of cornfields, I guess.
Guest:And I thought, oh, this is like the same thing as Kubrick.
Guest:Like he went that deep into this.
Guest:When you're going through a black hole, you're going, I think that's what it might be like.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:That obviously will make things better, but it's also that's a real artist who's going to go that deep.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, you've got to have that that almost obsessive kind of need to to have all of these things just right.
Guest:Well, I mean, look, they're all the films that we like.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Ultimately is when someone's gone for us, right?
Guest:You don't have to fill in the edges yourself.
Marc:Yeah, but even if you don't even open the cabinet.
Guest:And there's a version of acting, I haven't hit it, but there's a version of acting that's like that where, I mean, look at Daniel Day-Lewis.
Guest:I mean, that guy's not fucking around.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He does two years.
Guest:Guess what?
Guest:Like, he is the guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He shows up, you know?
Marc:He's still Lincoln, I heard.
Marc:He's...
Guest:I had a friend who did wardrobe on that.
Marc:He never came out.
Guest:And he couldn't give it to him on hangers.
Guest:They didn't have hangers.
Guest:Because they didn't have hangers, yeah.
Marc:Now, does that impress you or make you go like... Not for me.
Guest:I probably am not going to be playing.
Guest:David Duke might be the extent of things that are far away from me.
Marc:Well, I appreciate you talking like you have because it sort of made me be like, you know, I got to...
Guest:Work harder.
Guest:I can't hurt.
Guest:I mean, like, you know, I actually, I guess maybe you have to police yourself.
Guest:It can hurt.
Guest:I've seen people where they go in such a direction that's unnecessary.
Guest:I think it's only to the point at which it's helping.
Marc:Well, I mean, I think that, like, really knowing the lines, like, so you don't have to worry about it anymore is liberating.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Because then you can do not the lines, right?
Marc:It opens you up to the other work, you know, like to whatever choices you want in place or...
Marc:figuring out exactly how this guy's at.
Marc:Where are we at the timeline?
Marc:That's my biggest problem.
Marc:When you shoot shit out of order, it's like, what just happened?
Marc:I'm not real good at.
Guest:A lot of it for me is reading the script, scenes I'm not in, just reading it through like a book.
Guest:I try to do that a couple times.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which is, yeah, I started to realize, I mean, I don't want to point out which ones.
Guest:There's certain films where I'm like, oh, I didn't play that right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like early on.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:Where like, oh, I'm like too excited.
Guest:That came right off of that scene.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Like I'm not great.
Marc:Like I have to tell directors, I'm like, make sure you tell me what happened before.
Guest:Well, if you're doing that, that's really it, man.
Guest:I mean, like just saying like, so where are we?
Guest:Like that's, I've heard a lot of great actors say that at the beginning of scenes, you know, like, so wait, where are we?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Because like I just, because like you said, with editing, you can get away with murder really.
Marc:I mean...
Marc:I've worked with people, like you said, who don't know their lines at all, and you have to tell them to them before each take, we'll cut up okay if they can hold the screen.
Guest:You mean before each line of theirs?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Someone says it, they kind of repeat it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:People have that stuff in their ear.
Guest:Have you ever worked with someone like that?
Guest:No.
Guest:I'm not going to say who, but I have.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It is so... First of all, you're not even in a scene with somebody when they've got one of those... They're being told the lines before they say them.
Guest:They say, the guy I was with was like, I like hearing some music so I get a vibe of the scene, but then you can hear someone's feeding them their lines from their trailer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you go like... They're like glazed over.
Guest:I mean, it kind of works in the film, I guess, but you're not connected with them, you know?
Marc:Well, I think that's the thing when you have these actors who have been around forever that they can sort of... It's not even a matter of resting on...
Marc:their laurels it's like when they show up on screen they they own it in such a way historically that you know the work that i don't know i mean i hate it i can't no no i'm not apologizing for it but i mean that's what happens that's why they get to that point oh oh oh they can get away with it right like you're saying you could get away with before every one of my lines
Guest:because it's edited, you know, just saying the line and I'll repeat it back to you.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But the great thing that happened, I'm going to come off like such an acting nerd in this.
Guest:I'm sorry, but I am an acting nerd.
Guest:It's okay.
Guest:I am an acting nerd.
Marc:I'm glad you're an acting nerd.
Guest:I've become more of an acting nerd.
Marc:Yeah, no, that's what we're learning.
Guest:But what I, and I will never move back to Darianne.
Guest:They didn't like me then.
Guest:Yeah, they're going to hate you now.
Marc:They're going to fucking hate me, yeah.
Marc:You cleaning lady's going to come after you.
Marc:It's a lot of things going on.
Guest:Um, uh, what I, what I've learned also in rehearsing is not only are you learning the lines, but you're learning deeper meanings every time you say it.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:So you can, I mean, that's what I learned doing that play.
Guest:I did, you know, Paul wrote this play and a hundred performances in, I was like, I think I'm seeing connections that Paul didn't know about.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Or you're connecting them.
Marc:And they don't have to know about it.
Marc:You're right.
Guest:But when people are watching it, even if it doesn't connect exactly, there's an intention there.
Marc:Yeah, that's part of your work.
Marc:I've learned that from talking to people that it's probably better to keep that to yourself.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I probably shouldn't have gone on such an acting jab.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:I'm saying like on set.
Marc:You don't want to come up to the director and go like, I don't know if you really know what's happening here, but it's a deeper thing I'm going to play.
Guest:I certainly worked with that actor too who's like, my wife is an acting coach.
Guest:And last night she let me know that my character was raped at the age of three.
Guest:And you go like, all right.
Guest:That's your work.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:I use it, I guess.
Guest:But, you know, we don't have to.
Guest:I don't think even we would know about that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Sadly, I think what I've noticed lately, having not had that much experience, is that a lot of times it is sort of a selfish pursuit, even though you're working with people, especially with film and television, is that your relationship a lot of times it seems for some is with the camera.
Guest:Selfish is a wrong word, dude.
Guest:I think it's more solo.
Guest:I think it's just sadly solo.
Guest:I had a real realization over the last 20 years that it is not, you know, yeah, I'm alone with this guy rehearsing the thing.
Guest:I show up.
Guest:I mean, I loved working with Adam Driver and John David Washington, but at the end of the day, like I'm doing my thing, they're doing their, you're right.
Guest:It all comes together.
Guest:We can all go to the party.
Marc:Yeah, but that's why I like when, and you've experienced this too, because I work, my emotional connection on GLOW is with Alison Brie.
Marc:And we get there.
Marc:I mean, I can feel it, and it's tangible, and you can see it.
Guest:She's a fucking great actress, great actress.
Marc:Yeah, and that makes a difference.
Marc:Oh, you're saying when you don't have that with someone else, it feels not as connected.
Marc:Well, when you're working with somebody else, and it's sort of like, oh, he doesn't care if I'm here or not.
Marc:I could be anybody, you know what I mean?
Marc:But I haven't had that huge a part.
Marc:I haven't had done any heavy lifting.
Guest:Wait, when are you going to admit, I mean, it doesn't have to be now, but at what point will you have done enough that you go, yeah, I'm like a seasoned actor now?
Guest:I think when like,
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Do you think there is even a time?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I mean, but seasoned is weird.
Marc:So I did four seasons of my own show.
Marc:So that's like, we did 49 episodes of Marin.
Marc:So that's a lot of stage.
Marc:And that was sort of my training on how to be on camera.
Guest:Actually, now you're on this hit show.
Marc:We're on the third season of Glow.
Guest:Maybe like by your eighth hit show.
Marc:Well, I mean, I think it's...
Marc:The more challenges I have, I don't know.
Marc:You're right.
Marc:No, but you should at some point, because you're great on it, you should just like- There's still so much I'm learning, but that shouldn't stop me from saying I'm an actor.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It doesn't have to be now, but at some point you should do it for yourself.
Marc:I think it's going to happen is when I do something like you've done, where I do something that is not totally within my wheelhouse.
Guest:Okay, yeah, yeah, I know what you mean.
Guest:Yeah, you took a leap and you got there.
Marc:Yeah, to challenge myself to do something that the choices I would have to make would be alien to me.
Marc:Like so far, I haven't really experienced that.
Marc:I've had to taper who I am or shut off parts of me, but I haven't had to make choices that through my vulnerability are inherently not really like me.
Guest:You've had Bob Odenkirk on this, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Did you watch those new Mr. Show?
Guest:They weren't called Mr. Show.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I watched some of them, yeah.
Guest:I thought they were great.
Guest:But his acting on Better Call Saul is great.
Guest:But his acting in these basically Mr. Show episodes.
Yeah.
Guest:That's what you're talking about.
Guest:Like he did what you did, like probably first felt the way you're feeling.
Guest:Then, you know, got on top of it and like, you know, got it.
Guest:And then he's taking these leaps.
Guest:He's like clearly went away and did so much acting work, but then came back to the same thing.
Guest:And his acting is like insane on it.
Guest:It's so great.
Marc:I got to watch that and pay more attention.
Marc:He has become a very good actor.
Guest:Yeah, but I think it's probably you're in that process of like, at some point you'll go, yeah, I want to try.
Marc:And I've never even done really broad characters like that.
Marc:I have a hard, like I was trying to think about that.
Marc:I can't remember what I was watching.
Marc:I think I was watching a stand-up, Fahim Anwar, where, you know, you just sort of,
Marc:embody a character that isn't you with confidence.
Marc:Like I have this weird insecurity about singing or becoming some like, because I'm so self-conscious sometimes that if I'm doing- But that can be the key too, is you're playing someone who isn't, you know what I mean?
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:I'm really weird, like I've never really inhabited, I think I have such a struggle just inhabiting me as a character in life.
Marc:But wouldn't you say, I've been a fan of yours for a long time, wouldn't you say that's evolving too?
Guest:yeah no it is yeah yeah but i i do need to challenge myself as an actor and i think then i'll i'll be able to maybe say what you want me to say it'll happen though i think the way it happened with bob like you know because i remember talking to him at the i know him a little bit at the beginning of that uh breaking bad process and he's kind of like i don't know man i never watched it and you know and then he owned it and then to watch him go back to mr show and own it you know the same thing because he was like great in the uh in the post
Marc:He had a really kind of a pivotal part.
Guest:And he like, he was quiet, which is maybe the hardest thing to do.
Guest:You know, like, God, he's great.
Guest:And I was just like, the fact that David's in that too is like.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It's very different.
Guest:I would like put it on a freeze frame because I watched it at home, the post.
Guest:And like, I was like, wow, you know, in the context of a Frozen, you know, seeing them together, I was like, this is a sketch.
Guest:But then when you hit play, it's like, you know, John Williams music and shit.
Yeah.
Marc:All right, buddy.
Marc:Well, it was good talking to you.
Marc:Great talking to you, man.
Marc:I thought it was good.
Marc:It was as fun as I thought it would be.
Marc:Oh, thank God.
Marc:It was.
Marc:I'm happy.
Marc:We talked about acting, too.
Marc:Yeah, thanks for having me.
Marc:That was better than we all thought.
Marc:I'm just saying that I enjoy talking to him.
Marc:All right, I'll play guitar.
Marc:I'll just do it.
Marc:No thinking about it.
Marc:Just doing it.
Marc:And happy holidays.
Marc:Be careful.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:All right.
Marc:Now I'll play guitar.
guitar solo
guitar solo
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Marc:Boomer lives!