Episode 974 - Ted Alexandro
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuckadelics?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my show.
Marc:This is my podcast.
Marc:It's called WTF.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:I imagine most of you listening have been here before.
Marc:Welcome back to you new folks.
Marc:Well, there's a lot going on.
Marc:What does that even mean?
Marc:What am I?
Marc:Who am I?
Marc:Rachel Maddow?
Marc:It's tonight.
Marc:Strap in because there's a lot going on.
Marc:Well, there's a lot of stuff.
Marc:I mean, if you're new to WTF, Lordy, Lordy, Lord knows there's an entire archive you can access through Stitcher.
Marc:Just there's like I don't even know what episode we're on now.
Marc:We're almost up to a thousand.
Marc:Not far from it.
Marc:Most recent 50 are always free.
Marc:And, you know, there's a lot there.
Marc:So enjoy yourselves.
Marc:And if you would take some of the advice, it's interesting advice that I can give you from listeners.
Marc:The emails that come in about the show, many people enjoy the ones where they don't know who the person is more than the person they know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But anyways, today, Ted Alexandro is here.
Marc:Ted is a comedian.
Marc:I've known Ted for years.
Marc:He's very funny.
Marc:New York guy.
Marc:He's got a special out now called Senior Class of Earth.
Marc:It's available through All Things Comedy.
Marc:You can go to ATCSpecials.com to buy it or rent it.
Marc:All Things Comedy is actually All Things Comedians in the sense that it's owned and operated by comedians.
Marc:I don't know who exactly is all involved, but I know Bill Burr and Al Madrigal are involved.
Marc:Comedic empire builders over there at All Things Comedy.
Marc:So a couple of things to take care of right now.
Marc:There's a new batch of handmade WTF mugs for the holidays.
Marc:These are the same mugs I give my guests.
Marc:They're very beautiful.
Marc:They're hand-thrown.
Marc:You can go to brianrjones.com to get yours starting today at noon Eastern.
Marc:And they always go very fast.
Marc:And if you want more WTF merch for gift giving or for yourself, you can get 30% off all of the stuff that we have available in our merch thing right now.
Marc:30% off.
Marc:You can go to podswag.com slash WTF or click on the merch link at WTFpod.com.
Marc:Then use WTF as the code at checkout and you can get some new shirts.
Marc:We got some signed posters.
Marc:We've got the limited run Gonzo poster from Phoenix.
Marc:You can get a signed book, all 30% off when you use WTF at checkout.
Marc:All right, this is personal business I'm getting at.
Marc:These aren't paid sponsor plugs.
Marc:These are me plugs.
Marc:And I got one more, to be honest with you.
Marc:The audio version of Two Real, which is my last special that I did on Netflix, now available on audio as a download.
Marc:There's a few vinyl ones around, but I didn't do a big run, so I don't even know.
Marc:I'm not even sure where you can get them.
Marc:But you can get this one if you go to the link on the homepage of WTFPod.com.
Marc:Okay, that said, that mug, I can't tell you how many guests I talk to that say that that's their mug.
Marc:That's the one they're using.
Marc:That's the go-to mug, that Brian R. Jones WTF mug.
Marc:But that aside, happy Hanukkah to those of you who are Hanukkah, who are Hanukkah-ing.
Marc:Try to say something stupid and it comes out more stupid.
Marc:Those of you who are doing the Hanukkah and those those of you Jews who are not doing it, but are still Jews.
Marc:And I just reminded you that it's Hanukkah.
Marc:Happy Hanukkah.
Marc:I think we're we're pretty well into it.
Marc:What day is today?
Marc:The sixth.
Marc:So that's a second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, the fifth night of Hanukkah.
Marc:That's five candles plus the one that's taller than the other ones.
Marc:Just a reminder, if you didn't get a new box of candles, it's always a mistake if you're a Jew that decides like this year I'm going to do it.
Marc:And you think you got a few candles left or you got enough candles left.
Marc:If there's even like two or three candles out of that box that are missing because you did it one night and decided to bail four years ago, you're going to come up short at the end and you're going to have a sad looking menorah on the eighth night because it ain't going to be right.
Marc:The count's going to be off.
Marc:It's going to be off.
Marc:My my my girlfriend partner, I don't I still not clear.
Marc:Sarah, the painter bought me some fancy artisanal, I believe, maybe even Hanukkah candles.
Marc:And she gave them to me and I was like, thank you.
Marc:And then today or yesterday I was on the phone with her and I'm like, is it Hanukkah?
Marc:Did it already start?
Marc:She's like, yeah, haven't you been doing it?
Marc:And I'm like, no.
Marc:I mean, I know you got me the candles and that was a good gesture, but what am I just going to be home alone with a menorah and my little yarmulke on that I got to find and lighting it, saying the little prayers by myself?
Marc:That's no fun if there's no one there to witness it.
Marc:I guess I could do it.
Marc:Maybe it would be moving.
Marc:But she's coming over.
Marc:Maybe we'll do it.
Marc:Maybe I'll let her see that part of myself.
Marc:It's always an interesting thing when you go out with a non-Jew and you're a Jew-Jew.
Marc:You do the thing.
Marc:You're like, all right, you want to see what it looks like?
Marc:You want to see the Jew thing?
Marc:Here we go.
Marc:Dim the lights.
Marc:Strap in.
Marc:It's going to get crazy here.
Marc:Baruch atah Adonai.
Marc:Look out!
Marc:Eloheinu melech haolam.
Marc:Oh, God!
Marc:Gee, this is crazy!
Marc:Happy Hanukkah.
Marc:Nonetheless, I think is the point of what I'm saying here.
Marc:So I've been enjoying the emails.
Marc:Subject line, hope giver.
Marc:Dear Mark, this I've never done before.
Marc:And truth be told, it's not a very Irish thing to do where I'm from.
Marc:He's from Ireland.
Marc:But I've listened to others thanking you, so I felt it at least courteous to do the same.
Marc:I've been listening to your podcast for roughly around 10 years now and will continue to do so as long as you don't give up.
Marc:Please don't.
Marc:I started listening to your podcast when my wife took ill at that time.
Marc:Cancer.
Marc:That's not an insult.
Marc:It's just I had to find something to occupy my mind whilst I was waiting around in hospitals for long periods of time.
Marc:My wife was diagnosed with cancer a year after we got married, and we were also devastatingly told that if she survived, we would never be able to have children.
Marc:Now, I was not the one going through the horrendous treatment.
Marc:I was not the one going through the pain.
Marc:I was not the one who did not know whether they were going to live or die.
Marc:The hospital doctors, nurses were all amazing, and obviously we had a great deal of luck on our side.
Marc:But my wife, who is alive and well today, said that me being there and always being positive really helped her through it.
Marc:Well, this is how I thank you.
Marc:Your podcast really helped me through those years.
Marc:I'm not saying it changed me as a human being or anything like that, but you can't imagine, maybe you can, how valuable listening to you talk through people's problems, issues, lives really helps someone like me who just needed to hear that everyone has shit, that shit can be there every day in all forms, and that shit can break you down if you let it.
Marc:It kept me afloat, and even though I don't know you, I'm sure that me calling you a giver of hope might seem paradoxical to you, but there it is.
Marc:So this is my thank you, my tip of the hat.
Marc:Keep up the good work.
Marc:P.S.
Marc:My wife and I now have a two-year-old daughter, and some say miracles don't exist.
Marc:Peace.
Marc:John.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm glad to hear that, John.
Marc:Congratulations.
Marc:I'm very happy for you, too.
Marc:I really am.
Marc:Man.
Marc:You know, I love doing this show.
Marc:I mean, God damn.
Marc:So Ted Alexandro, very smart guy, good guy, earnest guy.
Marc:Bottom line, though, funny guy.
Marc:Known him for a long time.
Marc:Been wanting to talk to him.
Marc:Always thought he kind of was, you know, weird with me.
Marc:But it turns out, of course, he wasn't.
Marc:Just me projecting onto him, who's not the same kind of boundaryless weirdo that I am.
Marc:Needy, boundaryless weirdo.
Marc:This is me talking to Ted Alexandro here in the garage.
Marc:His stand-up special, Senior Class of Earth, is available through all things comedy.
Marc:Go to ATCSpecials.com to buy or rent it.
Marc:This is me and Ted Alexandro.
Marc:So, Ted, we did a live WTF.
Marc:How long ago was it?
Marc:Do you know?
Guest:You seem like a guy that would know.
Guest:You know, I don't.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:I'm going to say seven or eight years.
Guest:Right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I don't know if I've seen you much since then.
Marc:Is that right?
Marc:Honestly, I don't know if we've seen each other at all since then.
Marc:That's crazy.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Well, it is kind of because like, you know, I don't think I'm of the generation you are.
Marc:Am I?
Marc:I think I'm the one before you.
Marc:You are, yeah.
Marc:I would say the class ahead of me.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, how old are you?
Guest:I'm 49.
Guest:I'll be 50 in January.
Guest:We're close.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did you start late?
Marc:Well, I mean, 23.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:You were always there, and you were always being funny, but there was a while there where I was like, he seems very intense, very serious.
Marc:Well, people still think that about me.
Marc:You were right.
Marc:The funny thing is, I was just going over some of the stuff in your bio, and now I can't get the song Working Class Hero by John Lennon out of my head.
Marc:You could do worse than that.
Marc:I don't know why that happened exactly.
Marc:I think it was the involvement.
Guest:That'll get you every time, the involvement.
Marc:And then you got us more money.
Marc:I remember that delicate time.
Marc:You've always been at the spearhead of the movement of getting us 10 more dollars.
Marc:Opening my mouth.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, I did.
Guest:$10 adds up though, right?
Guest:No, no, it was more than that, wasn't it?
Guest:Well, initially it was $10.
Guest:It was.
Guest:Initially it was.
Guest:It went from $50 to $60, I think, on the weekends.
Guest:And then we did it a second time and we formed the Comedians Coalition.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And it was sort of like, yeah, I remember, because I was there.
Marc:What year was it?
Marc:Yeah, that was, gosh.
Marc:That was around that same time, maybe seven, eight years ago.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And there was a little divisive because people didn't want to upset Manny and Esty.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You know, it was so ridiculous.
Marc:It was ridiculous.
Marc:Because what were we really fighting?
Marc:There was actually a fight at all for another $10, $12.
Guest:And it became like $25, right?
Guest:It eventually became $25, yeah.
Guest:And I think it's gone up once or twice since, like unprovoked by us, which is nice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:so yeah i mean it was you know what what it stemmed from yeah these were conversations that we were having amongst ourselves all the time right like we're still making the same money we made in like you know since the 80s i think it hadn't changed well i don't think people realize either like the regular person like you know when you do a spot like at the comedy store here or at the comedy cellar on a weekday on a showcase night yeah
Marc:I don't even remember what were we making, like 15 bucks on Monday through Thursday?
Marc:That's right.
Marc:For a 15-minute spot.
Marc:And then on Friday and Saturday, it was originally 50 bucks?
Marc:I think you're right, yeah.
Marc:So in order to make a living before you could really do the road, that was the thing about New York is that you had to figure out how to get into three or four clubs and then run around and do like four or five spots at each.
Marc:Just to walk out of the weekend with 400 bucks or whatever.
Guest:And you know what's funny is my first year or so that I was passed at the strip, the comic strip, here's the mentality.
Guest:I didn't even realize that you get paid.
Guest:So I was doing weekend spots at the strip and walking out.
Guest:And one day, like a year later, somebody, I don't know if it was Vic Henley or somebody was like, oh, did you sign for your money?
Guest:And I was like, money?
Guest:So somebody was collecting my money for like a year.
Guest:Maybe that's why I was getting booked.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:You never got it back?
Guest:No, I didn't say it.
Guest:I mean, like a year had gone by where I was just like, I'm past at the strip.
Guest:You're doing free spots?
Guest:Pretty much.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's funny that we make that assumption because there is something about being self-employed where for a long time you don't feel like you're really working.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because you're sort of like, or it's not even, it's before you realize you're self-employed.
Marc:When you just want to be a comic.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like the first time you get like $25, you're like, oh my God.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:This is amazing.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think that's the mentality that kind of led to us all accepting that, okay, as long as I'm in at this club and that club, that is really the goal.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then if I'm getting 20 bucks, that mentality was kind of baked into our thinking.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And also that we just did stage time, legitimate stage time.
Guest:Right, all of which is important, yeah.
Guest:Because back then, when did you start?
Guest:I started 92-ish and 94 as a solo.
Guest:At first I was part of a duo with my friend Hollis James.
Marc:No kidding.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So back then, the alt scene was not happening.
Marc:And if you wanted to get spots, you had to figure out a way how to get them at clubs.
Guest:You know what's funny is the alt scene was almost like rooms that were worse than the clubs, like going to Uncle Joey's in Staten Island or something like where it was alt, but alternatively bad.
Marc:I think that arguably they're still worse than the clubs, really.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I mean, like, well, alt comedy kind of saved my ass because it gave me a venue to sort of generate the way I generate, which is, you know, through improvising the shit because it's harder to do that at a club.
Marc:But there was a period, though, there were like, well, now we got to get into these places.
Marc:And then you're just talking to a dude.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Like, hey, man, can I do your room?
Marc:It's like, no, no, no.
Marc:You know, like, who the fuck are you?
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:I passed it the strip in the cellar.
Marc:Well, we're not really doing it.
Marc:It was a concern.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's fascinating how things have evolved.
Guest:And again, like you being that class ahead of me, just by a few years, you germinated like this whole other scene.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I would say the storytelling scene was on the heels of that.
Guest:All of these things that really opened up comedy in a great way in our generation.
Marc:I think so.
Marc:And ultimately what happened though, which is weird, is that
Marc:Most of the guys that really sort of did that original alt thing, they were club comics.
Marc:And then it's sort of come back around.
Marc:The difference now that's happened is that we don't have to rely on a comedy club to make a living somehow because of where media is and also...
Marc:That most of us who started in clubs have come back around to clubs, or we can do smaller theaters now.
Marc:The alt thing really just became part of your creative process.
Marc:You don't have to stay there.
Marc:I don't even know if it exists anymore.
Marc:Now it just seems that what the alt scene has become is that there's a lot more open mics.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Yeah, I would say that's true.
Guest:In a lot of different places.
Guest:Yeah, and you'll see a lot of...
Guest:A lot of good comedy and a lot of bad comedy, whether you're at an alt club or a regular club.
Marc:It's just like open mics.
Marc:It's the way it is.
Marc:So wait, where'd you grow up?
Guest:I grew up in Queens.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In Astoria?
Guest:Belrose, which is maybe 30 minutes from Astoria, where I live now.
Guest:Way out in Queens.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Kind of on the Queens-Long Island border.
Guest:Grew up.
Guest:Is it Greek?
Guest:No, on my dad's side, Italian.
Guest:My mom's a mix of English, French, German, Irish.
Guest:Yeah, they were both New Yorkers.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah, they met with Queens.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They met in Queens?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, they met when they were like 14, 15 years old at a bowling alley.
Guest:In Queens?
Guest:In Queens, Belrose, where I grew up.
Guest:I grew up in the house that my mom grew up in.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:I'm one of five, two brothers, two sisters.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Where are you, in the middle?
Guest:I am the second oldest.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, so we grew up in the house that my mom grew up in, and then...
Guest:Now my parents in their retirement are living in the house that my dad grew up in.
Guest:So they're still- Where is it down the street?
Guest:Not quite, but yeah, it's maybe a couple of miles.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:What happened to the old house?
Guest:They sold it to a young couple.
Guest:Oh yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Is it like it turning into something out there?
Marc:I don't think so.
Marc:I don't think so.
Marc:You mean like a regular young couple, not a hipster young couple?
Guest:No, it's not that kind of thing.
Guest:It's just a young, like a struggling young couple.
Guest:So there's five of you?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:There's five of us.
Guest:Yeah, we were all kind of artistic.
Guest:You know, my brother's a poet.
Guest:All of us acted in... A working poet?
Guest:Well, is there such a thing?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's working in terms of writing all the time.
Guest:Is he teaching or anything?
Guest:You know, he's a peer-to-peer counselor at a mental hospital.
Guest:You know, he's bipolar, so he's kind of his whole life...
Guest:He's my older brother.
Guest:So it's him, then me, my brother, Dave, my sisters.
Guest:Yeah, two sisters.
Guest:So my brother, yeah, Rich was like a real inspiration because he dealt with his, you know, his bipolar and... I think that's our first presidential alert.
Marc:There we go.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:Is it?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:What's going on?
Marc:This is a test of the National Wireless Emergency Alert System.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:I bet you got one.
Marc:Did you get one?
Marc:I shut my phone off.
Marc:Did you?
Marc:Apparently not.
Marc:Just see if you got one.
Marc:It's kind of a creepy totalitarian thing.
Guest:You know, even if I did, I think I shut those things off unless you can't opt out.
Guest:I got to opt out of that.
Marc:Like now I got Trump texting me.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:It's all I fucking needed.
Marc:You know?
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:That's like creepy, man.
Marc:So what does it exactly say?
Marc:It's a test of- This is a test of the National Wireless Emergency Alert System.
Marc:No action is needed.
Marc:Presidential alert.
Marc:That's gross.
Marc:Dude, it's fucking crazy.
Marc:Oh my God.
Guest:Presidential alert.
Guest:No action is needed.
Guest:I just want you to know that I have access to your phone.
Guest:Wait, it is.
Guest:Now it is.
Guest:There it is.
Guest:Yeah, it just came through.
Guest:This is a test of the National Wireless Emergency Alert System.
Guest:No action needed.
Guest:What the fuck is happening?
Guest:And my phone is vibrating.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:Well, I'm glad we shared that.
Marc:That's creepy, dude.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like now what, he's going to be texting us?
Marc:Apparently.
Marc:Hey, sad guy.
Marc:Like Twitter's not enough?
Marc:Twitter's not enough.
Marc:Now we're going to wake up in the middle of the night.
Marc:Just kidding.
Marc:The fuck?
Marc:Jesus Christ.
Marc:Disturbing.
Marc:So the whole thing is disturbing.
Marc:Everything's disturbing.
Marc:It is.
Marc:And we're all at each other's throats because of this fucking monster.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:So your brother's bipolar, that's something you got in your family?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:My mom as well had struggled.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Thankfully, they both really have had this kind of journey to wellness and to managing.
Marc:And they're doing all right.
Guest:They're doing great.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Mom is a retired teacher and she's been great for
Guest:probably like, I don't know, 25 years.
Guest:They just figured out the medicine?
Guest:They figured out the medicine, the whole kind of comprehensive lifestyle.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Diet, exercise, meditation, therapy.
Guest:Really?
Guest:They're doing all of it and they're managing pretty well.
Guest:They're doing well.
Guest:And my brother Rich, he's a real inspiration now.
Guest:He's a peer-to-peer counselor with people who are hospitalized or outpatients.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And yeah, as a poet too, I think he has that, he just has a real knack for, you know, I think he's like a flesh and blood example to them.
Guest:Like, look, you can, you know, he's like, I used to be in this hospital.
Marc:Yeah, it's great.
Marc:It's like drug addicts talking to drug addicts.
Marc:But like, but bipolar is like, you know, my old man's got depression problems and like, you know, if...
Marc:The problem usually is that they like the high so much that they don't take the medicine.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think my brother Rich struggled with that.
Guest:Went through that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The thing of like- I feel alive.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Does he publish his poetry?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:He has a book out.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And what's the other ones do?
Guest:My brother Dave is a statistical analysis for Connecticut.
Marc:Statistical analyst?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's interesting, I guess.
Guest:Used to be a really smart math guy.
Guest:Oh, he's a math guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was a teacher?
Guest:He was a teacher at an all-girls school and coached and did all that for many years.
Guest:And what did the girls do?
Guest:What did the sisters do?
Guest:My sister Trish is an actress.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yep, yep.
Guest:She's doing all right with her?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:She's acting, writing her own stuff, putting up shows, and doing personal training in the day, so she's got both gigs going.
Yeah.
Guest:She's great, though, yeah.
Guest:And my sister Amy, she's into astrology.
Guest:She's an astrologer.
Guest:She does readings and stuff like this.
Guest:And works at a school during the day.
Guest:What does she do at the school?
Guest:She's like an executive assistant, secretary kind of thing, yeah.
Marc:It's sort of interesting that you got all these creative teaching people that are doing things for other people, somewhat selfless.
Marc:So your mother was a teacher?
Guest:My mother and father were both teachers.
Guest:They were both teachers.
Guest:And I taught for five years when I first got out of school.
Marc:I remember when you started doing stand-up.
Marc:I mean, it was like you were doing the, I was a teacher thing.
Marc:That was the whole shtick, yeah.
Marc:And like Todd Berry was, I was a substitute teacher thing.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:So you took it a little further.
Marc:I was more committed, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So they were always sort of, your parents were always supportive, embracing whatever the kid's imagination would let them do.
Guest:My parents were very supportive.
Guest:They were kind of hippies.
Guest:Oh, they were?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, it's funny.
Guest:My earliest childhood memories are in India.
Guest:We lived in India for a year when I was about four or five years old.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My parents- For a whole year?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My parents were teaching over there.
Guest:And so, yeah, it was the three boys at the time.
Guest:I was about five.
Guest:And yeah, my earliest childhood memories are our house in India.
Guest:Have you been back?
Guest:No, my mom and dad just went back for the first time in 40 years.
Guest:Just to visit?
Guest:Yeah, they were invited back by some friends who I guess they were over there with.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And so they had like a big kind of celebration.
Guest:But yeah, to your point, yeah, my mom and dad are just, yeah, they're very...
Guest:supportive, loving people in general.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For all five of us, they're kind of like a bedrock of just, yeah, they're loving but not in an obtrusive way.
Guest:They can be as obtrusive as you need them to be.
Guest:So you're saying you had good parents.
Guest:I did.
Guest:I did.
Marc:And you seem like a guy that did.
Marc:I'm grateful.
Marc:Yeah, no, I did.
Marc:I did for sure.
Marc:You're a very practical and decent man.
Marc:Well, thank you.
Marc:That's how you always struck me.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Other times I just saw you didn't like me, but that was funny.
Guest:Which is funny because, you know, I was saying when I came in and we said we would talk here, I think the only, my most memorable experience working with you was we worked, you don't have to be worried, we worked at Cobbs together in San Francisco.
Guest:To have a worried face, I got a worried face.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Which the old Cobbs, like down in the cannery?
Marc:The old Cobbs.
Marc:Not the big old horrible Cobbs, but the original.
Marc:The original one.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I was excited to work with you because you were like a headliner.
Guest:You were like an established guy.
Guest:And it was like fun to watch you work the whole time because you work differently than most people that I worked with.
Guest:And like you said earlier, like kind of thinking through stuff on stage.
Guest:So, yeah, it was exciting.
Guest:But yeah, it's like you did have that energy of like, do you like me?
Guest:Like, what's your deal?
Guest:Like, you know, like there was a whole like, yeah, like you couldn't trust me to just like, yeah, we're just, I'm just a dude and we're working together.
Marc:Yeah, I have a,
Marc:I have a hard time with people with actual boundaries that are sort of grounded.
Marc:I'm like, I don't seem to be fucking with you at all.
Marc:I'm projecting a lot onto you, and I couldn't read it.
Marc:I wasn't working with you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, man.
Marc:I'm trying to remember that.
Marc:I'm trying to remember that week.
Marc:Things are starting to fade.
Guest:Well, your wife at the time was working with us as well.
Guest:Mishnah.
Guest:Mishnah was opening.
Guest:I was middling.
Guest:No shit.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So it was the three of us.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:So I must have come up from here to go do that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And did you know her when we started?
Marc:I think we had met in New York, but I didn't know her well.
Guest:I knew you a little bit better, but I didn't know you that well either.
Marc:I feel like I remember when you started doing it.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:So how do you get from, was it just, I've met, there's several people that I've talked to in here, creative people whose parents were teachers.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that seems to read that teachers embrace someone's desire to do what they want to do, but also to be practical about it on some level.
Marc:But it seems like that two of you guys, or three in a way, or four even, got involved with schools and with teaching.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Was that...
Marc:Is that just something you I mean, obviously, your parents were like, you shouldn't you should be teachers, but you gravitated towards that.
Marc:It just felt like the right thing to do or something you wanted to do.
Marc:What was that?
Guest:I would say that.
Guest:Well, what's what's interesting is none of us are doing what we got our degrees in, you know, which is.
Guest:Well, for me, it was elementary education.
Guest:It was actual elementary education.
Guest:I had studied jazz piano.
Guest:That was my initial major.
Guest:You still play?
Guest:No.
Guest:I mean, here and there.
Guest:I have an apartment, so occasionally I'll take the keyboard out, but it's very rare.
Marc:But you grew up taking lessons?
Guest:Yes, grew up taking lessons.
Guest:Played a lot until I was in college.
Guest:You must have been serious.
Guest:I was serious up until about age 20 when I just kind of realized I'm not a jazz pianist.
Guest:I was surrounded by these people who were so talented, and I'm like, no, this is ... You know when you're struggling too much to make something happen.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's not natural.
Marc:It's not natural.
Marc:You just see a dude that just goes out there like a monk style with three notes, and you're like, what the fuck was that?
Marc:Yes, exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Yeah, it's like a language that I'm not fluent in.
Guest:So that was depressing, but I just made my shift into education at that point, just as like, I guess I got to do something.
Guest:But I was also doing stuff in the theater department, just on a whim, I would audition for shows.
Guest:then started doing some stand-up as part of a duo.
Guest:In college.
Guest:In college, yeah.
Guest:And my parents were supportive.
Guest:They were always, I think they had that blend of like, yeah, of course we support anything you want to try to do.
Guest:But there was, and I think it's probably just hardwired in me too of like,
Guest:I want to make sure I'm taking care of, you know, I want to pay my bills.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I was teaching, I was like substitute teaching initially.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I just got hired full time to be a music teacher.
Guest:So I did that for five years.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:It's just like, I don't, like the paying the bills thing, it's just sort of weird when I think back on, you know, pursuing what we do.
Marc:It's really sort of crazy.
Marc:But I like that because a teacher is not a big money gig.
Marc:Right.
Marc:No.
Marc:But you must have thought, you must get some joy out of doing it, out of helping kids.
Guest:Yeah, I loved it in the sense of helping kids, introducing them to the arts.
Guest:That was it, huh?
Guest:So your music.
Guest:I was a music teacher.
Guest:I also did the plays with them, so we'd put up Sound of Music.
Guest:Really?
Guest:For elementary?
Guest:For elementary, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, we had a pretty good department.
Guest:Our principal was very supportive, so yeah, we kind of had carte blanche to do what we wanted.
Guest:You were the artsy guy.
Guest:I was the artsy guy.
Guest:Luckily had a couple other people that I could collaborate with.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So yeah, it was like, you know, the thing that I think wound up inadvertently helping me was your public speaking.
Guest:You know, I was in front of like a hundred kids.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because they crammed a lot of kids together.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it would be like three classes at once.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I was speaking- For the music stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because of budget cuts, you'd get a bunch of kids at once.
Guest:So I would be speaking in front of like a hundred kids, 200 kids-
Guest:So on some level, without realizing it, you're kind of sharpening your public speaking.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You're like just keeping people's attention.
Guest:All that stuff.
Marc:And if they're kids, you're really, you got to go over the top to keep that attention.
Guest:Absolutely do.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And on some like second shows on a Saturday.
Marc:For sure.
Marc:That's going to come in handy.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:How's everybody doing?
Guest:That's right.
Marc:It was the same, like, let me go really big, you know, really loud.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You got to get that.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:Those are good chops to have.
Marc:For sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:For the Drunky show.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah, it helped.
Marc:But I just, like, I mean, working with kids, like, I can't imagine, like, for me, like, just thinking about it, there's got to be just this sort of this beautiful, bittersweet thing because at that age in elementary school, they're already sort of defined.
Marc:So, like, right?
Marc:So, like, you're seeing these personalities and how they're engaging with each other.
Marc:And there's got to be every day you're just like, oh, that guy, that kid's going to be trouble or that kid's going to have a hard time.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Like just like every day sort of like it's just so because they're so brutal.
Guest:Well, yeah, you can project.
Guest:You see like the little version.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And you kind of can project like, all right, I see where this is going and it's not good.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I was the guy that guy made cry.
Marc:Yes, yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There was a lot of that.
Guest:And, uh, but yeah, it's, it's interesting too.
Guest:Cause I was K through five as a music teacher.
Guest:I had the whole, the whole school.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:So it was that thing of like the kindergarten kids are, are babies.
Guest:You know, they're, they're just, they're, it's unbelievable that they're even out of their homes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then the fifth graders are like what you're saying.
Guest:You're, you're kind of seeing like the seeds of monsters happen.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:The disruptive ones, the ones that have no interest in what you're doing, and then the fragile ones that are trying to get you to please you, and then they get shit from the one that's like, yeah, what are you doing?
Marc:You're kissing the teacher's ass?
Guest:All of it.
Marc:And it's queens on top of it, so you got a full range of fucking...
Guest:Everything, yeah.
Guest:Psycho kids.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It was like the UN, really.
Guest:It was kids from all over.
Marc:Oh, I bet that's true.
Marc:Right.
Guest:You know?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I forget that about Queens.
Marc:It's like the most diverse place in the fucking world.
Guest:In the world, yeah.
Marc:Is it though, actually?
Guest:It is.
Guest:I think it's one of them.
Guest:Queens County, if I'm not mistaken, is the most diverse place in the world.
Marc:I couldn't believe it.
Marc:Like when I lived in Astoria and like, I remember cause you moved there after me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like I was, I was long, I was there with long, I don't even know where it's at now, but like when I was there, it's like as Brooklyn was getting hip and I don't know nothing about Brooklyn zero.
Marc:I don't have any concept of Brooklyn.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But people were like, is Queens starting to happen?
Marc:I'm like, Queens is not going to happen.
Marc:It's happening.
Guest:Astoria is happening.
Guest:Yeah, Astoria is hip.
Guest:It's like restaurants, bars, a lot of the old mom and pop things are gone and it's like, yeah.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because I had that apartment for like a decade or more.
Marc:There just seemed to be a style to Queens that was eclectic and international, but it did not seem movable.
Guest:Well, the thing about Astoria that I think made it movable was all of the Greek people that primarily owned everything realized, oh, we can cash in because all of the people that are getting priced out of Manhattan or Brooklyn.
Guest:So yeah, that's how- So that's what happened.
Guest:Now it's like an equal balance of like, it's still a Greek neighborhood, but then I think they made money on bringing in the hipsters.
Marc:I was always fascinated that you get off the train.
Marc:I used to get off at 30th, right?
Marc:So there was just those vegetable markets.
Marc:There was two almost identical vegetable markets.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:But at all hours, there was Muslim families, just families from other countries shopping with young children at 2 in the morning.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:It's like, they don't sleep?
Marc:They don't close.
Marc:Yeah, it's true.
Marc:But why are the kids out?
Marc:Yeah, no.
Marc:And then you start to realize, well, people parent differently in different places.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:Yeah, they were like on a night shift.
Marc:The kids were like doing the opposite.
Marc:It was always exciting to me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because like almost at any hour, there was people like looking at vegetables.
Marc:I'm like, I just got done working.
Marc:It's 1.30.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:People looking at vegetables that like, I don't even know what the vegetables are sometimes.
Guest:And the vegetables would be arriving at all different hours of the day too.
Marc:I really got it.
Marc:I really sort of, I dug it.
Marc:So you're teaching and you decide for five years you did this?
Marc:I did this for five years.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You had insurance, you were in, it looked like a lifetime thing.
Guest:No, I never considered it lifetime because I was doing more and more stand-up.
Guest:With a guy.
Guest:Well, the first two years with a guy, but then I broke off and kind of like, he was kind of doing his own writing and stuff, and I was more and more starting to do it solo.
Marc:How'd you meet that guy?
Guest:Queens College, when I was studying education there.
Guest:How'd you meet a Queens guy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I went to CCNY in Manhattan for the jazz piano thing.
Guest:But when that didn't work out, I transferred to Queens.
Marc:That must have been heartbreaking.
Marc:Just sort of like, I'm going to be a musician.
Marc:And then you get there when you see all these kind of savants and weirdos.
Marc:I was pretty crestfallen.
Guest:I was like, I guess I'm just going to be a teacher.
Guest:In Queens, you know?
Guest:Do you remember the moment of watching someone else play piano where you're like, ugh.
Guest:I do.
Guest:You do?
Guest:I do.
Guest:I distinctly remember.
Guest:Two things I remember.
Guest:One was there was a guy in my class who had like the longest fingers I'd ever seen, first off.
Guest:They were like spider, just like so long, spindly.
Guest:And he was playing like a monk tune.
Guest:And it was so like...
Guest:Simultaneously beautiful and heartbreaking because he was like saying to me, you'll never be able to do this.
Guest:That's how it was registering.
Guest:It was like, wow, he's so talented and I'm never going to be able to do that.
Guest:So that was, yeah, that was one moment that really resonated.
Guest:Another was Ron Carter, the legendary bass player with Miles Davis and Herbie Hancock.
Guest:He was the head of the jazz department at CCNY.
Guest:So you had to play in front of him for your jury, they called it at the end of the semester.
Guest:So I played in front of him and a few other professors.
Guest:And it was fine, but I just felt so nervous.
Guest:And so again, like that feeling of like, this isn't coming naturally.
Guest:This isn't what I'm meant to do.
Guest:Yeah, so playing in front of Ron Carter, again, was thrilling, but also an affirmation of like, Ron Carter shouldn't have to be listening to me.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:But did you feel like, because expression is weird in terms of what you choose to do for your creative expression, and it seems that the requirements...
Marc:You know, for getting your craft in place as a pianist and then as a jazz pianist and then to be able to journey out.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It's like, you know, years.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, it's years, but it's also a disposition.
Marc:It's sort of like, can I let myself am I going to have that freedom?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Of expression that I want.
Marc:And I guess some of it's natural.
Marc:Like, my brother was a tennis player, and he knew early on that he was going to have to work twice as hard because he just didn't have the natural ability.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Is it the same with piano?
Guest:Well, you know what it is?
Guest:I think for us as comics, I think we have the ability to do what you just said in terms of stand-up.
Guest:I didn't have that ability with the piano.
Guest:I was fine.
Guest:I was always like the guy who played piano up until high school, even into college.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I could play the piano, but I was not a professional.
Guest:There was levels that I knew were beyond me.
Guest:You couldn't make it your own.
Guest:Couldn't make it my own, yeah, which is what I wanted to do.
Guest:I wanted something to be my expression.
Marc:Well, it's sort of like, but you're right, though, that if you, I don't know how you generate comedy, but I watched that thing you did about Louie because that got around, got you some juice.
Marc:That got around.
Marc:But what I noticed about it more than what was being said was that the first time you did it?
Guest:The one that had the tape that got out.
Guest:It was maybe among the I did it all that week that he came back.
Guest:So maybe it was like the fifth time.
Marc:But like because there was like, you know, that was one of those things where, you know, sadly, you know, in our game, in our racket that, you know, when you're going to choose, you know, even somebody who's disgraced.
Marc:Mm hmm.
Marc:You're going to choose to kind of like use him as a point of reference to make a broader point.
Marc:But like, you know, I saw that just talking about jazz where you're choosing your beats.
Marc:Like, you know, you're moving slower.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:You're waiting because you know it's- You're finding it.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:And then like, you know, how is it going to not just be a fuck you Louie thing?
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:You know, and the bigger piece about culture.
Marc:And, you know, like, but I saw you deliberating.
Marc:And it was nice.
Marc:It's a nice timing.
Marc:But that's that freedom, is that that's what we've earned after a decade or two of doing this, is that, like, I'm going to go out there and I'm going to see, you know, where this goes.
Marc:Because with what we do after a certain point, thankfully...
Marc:If it's not working, you can sort of like, I can get out of this.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:And you literally said that, and it was working.
Marc:Especially women were very excited.
Marc:But I don't know what the experience was because I know that room, but I know that there must have been some people that were kind of like, whoa, it's kind of...
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was a mixed bag.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I think deliberate is the right word in general, deliberating whether or not to do the stuff.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Deliberating whether or not to put it out.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But like I said in the piece, it's things that I was thinking a lot about and talking a lot about.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And with this kind of stuff, I'm finding it for myself.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:you know you do think about it a lot and then there comes that point where you're like why how do i make this funny and and not spiteful or self-righteous absolutely yeah it has to be funny and and for me that was the important thing of doing it and and further for sharing it because like you said i
Guest:To me, it was more of a macro statement on all of these things.
Guest:It's not specifically, like some of the pieces that came out were like Comedian Slams Louie or whatever.
Guest:To me, that's not the point.
Guest:That's quick bait.
Guest:Yeah, it's a macro discussion about all of it.
Guest:So to me, that was what merited like, all right, let me share this.
Guest:Even though it is like I'm a little ambivalent about putting it out, but it was material I was doing on stage.
Guest:I was doing it on that stage in particular.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That week.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So to me, it felt like, all right, let me make this part of the conversation if it helps.
Marc:I was happy about it.
Marc:I was happy for you because like what you realize in our world, not unlike in Trump world in general, that it's not even a loyalty thing.
Marc:But the fear of cultural reprisal.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:from your peers or from a contingent in the audience is stifling.
Marc:So when you're thinking about things like that that are gonna be provocative, you have to be willing to shoulder that.
Marc:And that's part of your process.
Guest:Well, and that doesn't just happen that week.
Guest:That happens because I've been working at the cellar for a long time.
Guest:That happens because I've been working in the style that you're alluding to for a long time.
Guest:And that was something that evolved too.
Guest:I think it's actually the style that you work in.
Guest:That became part of my process later.
Guest:I was more heavily written in the early going of my career.
Guest:But then as I got older, I could do more thinking on my feet, go up with ideas, kind of flesh them out.
Marc:That's the best.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's the jazz part.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:So, yeah, so I think the piece, it does show that, like, you know, it has comedic merit, too, which was important to me.
Guest:Right.
Guest:To show, like, the evolution of things that are happening right now.
Guest:And, you know, usually if you see somebody do a set on Conan or whatever, it's stuff that's, like, done.
Guest:Yeah, you got four and a half minutes.
Guest:You know all the beats.
Guest:It's all tight, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So this, to me, was like, yeah, it showed that process.
Marc:Well, yeah, but also it was sort of like...
Marc:That we live in a culture right now that there are, you know, people do pick sides.
Marc:It's very divisive on a lot of levels.
Marc:And there is this sort of, you know, the thing I liked about that bit was that you were like, what are we yearning for?
Marc:You know, what is it that it used to be that can be seen as better?
Marc:Do you know, like, was that freedom or was it really just utter insensitivity?
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Right?
Marc:That's right.
Guest:The PC culture?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah, just living in this type of world or that type of world.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I think we're talking about kind of basic decency on a lot of levels.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:And a lot of people who kind of still use that sort of thing, everything's too PC, it's too PC.
Marc:There are limits to everything.
Marc:But like in terms of decency, in terms like, you know, we got past the word Chinaman eventually.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:We don't call African-Americans or black people colored people anymore.
Marc:There is an evolution that happens culturally that happens because it's out of decency and respect.
Guest:Well, anytime I think you're railing against what the new progress is, you're going to be on the wrong side of history.
Guest:If you're railing against me too, or if you're railing against women having a voice, you know, all of which is really tied to social media too, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:People.
Marc:Well, that's, that's the, that, that might be a problem.
Marc:Well, I mean, yes and no.
Marc:Social media, in a sense, doesn't let much... There's no air.
Marc:There's no breath.
Marc:There's no sort of like, wait, it's over.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:There's definitely complications to the way all of that works.
Guest:But I do think when voices get through on a mass level, whether it's Me Too or Black Lives Matter, just realizing...
Marc:an epiphany for the the mass culture of like oh wow this is this is way worse than i realized things that i was not aware of that's true you know that's true yeah no definitely but yeah i but i thought it was funny i thought it was you know it was it was decent you know you know cultural and and you know and social sat it's not even satire but it's just it's a responsibility of a comic who's awake to sort of address these things however they're going to do it and and i think that you know
Marc:And I think that's one of the big reasons why people are, outside of being upset with Louis' transgressions, they're upset that he didn't confront.
Marc:He's the guy, so he's going to come back and then not talk about it?
Guest:I think, yeah, that's a big component of the kind of firestorm that's touched off.
Guest:It's like you came back after this period of time.
Marc:Yeah, you're one of the truth guys, so tell the truth.
Marc:Tell the personal truth of it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So, yeah, it is.
Marc:That's a whole other thing, though.
Marc:That's not really what you were talking about.
Marc:It was just the idea that, you know, like, hey, he just did this.
Marc:It's like, yeah, but that's bad.
Guest:That's bad.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, like, to me...
Guest:Yeah, it's that hard thing, but also, again, artistically or comedically, if this is what I do all the time, and again, that was the impetus for ultimately sharing it after I talked to fellow comics about it and kind of trusted confidants.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Before doing it, you mean?
Guest:No, no, before putting it out.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I had been doing it for like, especially that full week.
Guest:And again, it's the kind of thing that has a shelf life.
Guest:That's not the kind of material that I want to be doing every night.
Marc:Well, that was the other thing I wanted to point to is that, you know, in terms of like what we do and, you know, when we do something that requires...
Marc:a certain amount of risk taking and you're conscious of it that, you know, at the end of it, you said, okay, I'm going to do my act now.
Marc:Like, you know, you're like this, this had to be said and now I'm going to do my other thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, it's funny because, you know, working that week, uh, the response was interesting from other comics and really like what?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like just people saying like, oh man, that's, that's heavy.
Guest:Like, like that's really good stuff or that, you know, uh,
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, has Noam seen you do that?
Guest:The owner has Noam seen you do that.
Guest:Did he see you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, he did.
Guest:And we had plenty of conversations.
Guest:You and Noam.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That whole week we had conversations.
Guest:Because you were doing it.
Guest:Well, just about the fact that Louis had come back.
Marc:And then the fact- What at the table, a lot of people were talking about it or just you and Noam?
Guest:No, this was just the two of us.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what was the nature of those conversations?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, just like, you know, kind of expressing some concerns about the way that he had come back, you know?
Guest:Yeah, you had that.
Guest:Yeah, just saying like for our workspace, you know, like maybe it requires further examination.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:That was really the extent of it, just saying like, you know, this is your club and then what kind of environment do we want to have that's, you know, safe for women, safe for women patrons, safe for all of us, you know?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:To Noam's credit, very open to it.
Guest:We have a great relationship.
Guest:I have no hesitancy to bring up anything to him.
Marc:I really wonder what it would have been like if his father was still alive.
Marc:If Manny was still around, if Noam's dad was around and this was happening with his intellectualization of politics and his, you know, I wonder what it would have been like.
Guest:You would know better than me because I wasn't there a whole lot during the Manny era.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:No, I'm just curious.
Marc:Yeah, because Noam seems like a bright guy and definitely a guy that will engage and weigh stuff.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, sometimes to a fault, like where I think, you know, initially he was taking it from kind of strictly a free speech point of view.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But, you know, this is more, I think it's more complicated than that.
Guest:So, but anyway, yeah, ultimately I kind of just wanted to put that piece out.
Guest:And ultimately he said to you what was the... I let him know about that as well.
Guest:I didn't want him to be surprised like, you know.
Marc:And once you got past the free speech defense, where did he land on it with you?
Guest:Well, yeah, I think he kind of, and I'm sure it's like evolving day to day where he stands on it.
Guest:But I think at that point he said, like, you know, I think we can put people on stage and the audience can choose to stay or leave or whatever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, so I said, well, you know, it's your club.
Guest:And obviously, but I just felt compelled.
Guest:And it's difficult because I think, especially at the cellar or any club that you're in, especially, like, depending on where you're at, you don't want to compromise that relationship, right?
Guest:But I luckily don't feel as though I'm in that territory with Noam that, you know, and I don't think I would care either way.
Guest:Like, I'm going to say it regardless.
Marc:It's an interesting thing because this is a micro of sort of the macro of what's happening, you know, politically, you know, in Washington in general.
Marc:Not that, you know, we're going to sit here and say, you know, what wonderful men these Republicans would be, you know, if Trump weren't there because they proved to be cowards and craving cowards.
Marc:But what's a risk even on a micro level as a comedy club is like, I don't want to lose my job.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I don't want to be a pariah because I'm speaking out.
Guest:It's always easier to stay quiet or not pick a side.
Guest:But not if you're a guy that talks about shit.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:For me, it was like, again, I wanted to kind of... Since I was doing it on stage, I felt as though...
Guest:I'm not going to save this for my next special or whatever.
Guest:I'm going to just put this out because it's relevant now with the Kavanaugh stuff.
Guest:I think Cosby had just been convicted that day.
Guest:So I was like, this is kind of the time to just put it out, be part of that discussion.
Marc:And how did you put it out?
Marc:How did you choose?
Marc:I just put it on YouTube.
Marc:Oh, that was it.
Marc:And then let it have its own life.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And just start, I think like 10 different outlets wrote little articles on it.
Guest:yeah and like um because like by by nature you i mean you do self-referential stuff and your comedy is not specifically political or you know it's like 50 50 you know yeah like the special that i'm putting out now is is like half of it is about my marriage uh at the time my upcoming but now you know we're married um and the other half is kind of socio-political talking about the world yeah politics and
Guest:Yeah, so it's half and half.
Marc:Now, looking at the history of you, in terms of your involvement with getting better pay for comics and also your involvement with the Occupy movement and this type of stuff, and that you feel you have a heavy social conscience,
Marc:that I think a lot of us do, but you seem to be, you take action.
Marc:And I'm not saying on stage necessarily, but you have this, something needs to be done about this.
Marc:Where did that come from?
Guest:That's a good question.
Guest:Maybe from my parents a little bit, maybe just partially, again, who I am.
Guest:But I think like when I'm really compelled by something, you know, it's not like a calculated thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:when I'm really compelled to think about a topic or to engage with, as far as if it's going to make it into my act, I think, for me, it has to be funny.
Guest:I don't want it to go into dogma.
Guest:Right.
Guest:For me, I think it has to have comedic merit that I find a way to say it that's, regardless of how you feel about the issue, you can be like, that's funny, that's well done.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But in life, as far as getting involved with the organizing with comedians for a pay raise or the Occupy stuff, it was more like,
Guest:Stuff that I was, again, thinking a lot about, frustrated about, and just found myself there.
Guest:It's not predetermined of like, this is what I need to do.
Guest:Certainly wasn't career motivated.
Guest:No, right.
Marc:But you're a guy that's like, I'm there, I'm doing this.
Marc:Where a lot of us are sort of like, well, I'm with him.
Marc:That guy's doing it though.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then when you show up and go, will you sign this thing?
Marc:Like, yeah, yeah, I'm glad you're out there doing it.
Guest:There was a lot of that, yeah.
Guest:All right, yeah, where do we sign?
Marc:Those are the two kinds of people.
Marc:I'm glad someone's out there doing that.
Marc:I'm behind them 100%, but I got things to do over here.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I don't like, how long's the march going to take?
Marc:Right.
Marc:How many steps?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Where is it?
Marc:What day?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:My special is called Senior Class of Earth because it does have this impending feeling of where we could be the last ones.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So the special deals a lot with those types of topics.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And again, more macro, not just like...
Guest:doing Trump jokes or whatever.
Marc:Yeah, no, I've been doing it myself.
Marc:Like I literally say, you know, yeah, the world is ending.
Marc:And I know like, you know, when we were kids, you watch that scary science documentary and you ask your parents, is the world going to end?
Marc:They're like, not for a million years.
Marc:I'm like, I think we're going to see it.
Marc:I think we're going to get in under the wire.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:We're there.
Guest:We're getting the alerts on our phone.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:And we're all a little complicit.
Marc:Do we do all we could?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's the point, right?
Guest:That's kind of like what you were just saying.
Guest:And I don't blame anyone for checking out.
Guest:I really don't.
Guest:It is so heavy.
Guest:And we do have so much on our plates.
Guest:And depending on where you're at in your own life...
Guest:You might just like, sometimes you just want to like close the curtains and, you know, just do your own thing.
Marc:But I also think like on another level, like, you know, maybe it's a rationalization in the way I think about it, but there, you know, there is, there was always this assumed luxury afforded to us because we were Americans that, you know, like this was a country where we could do what we wanted to do.
Marc:And many of us did.
Marc:So when it came to sort of like, you know, once people detach from their civic responsibility, you know, even if it's as simple as just voting, right.
Marc:You know, then it was sort of like, well, you don't have an understanding of how the framework of this thing has to function.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And now, like, everybody has an understanding, but it's completely tribalistic.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, now it's like, oh, fuck.
Marc:You're like, well, what have you been doing for the last 30 years?
Marc:You know, they've been mobilized and chipping away at the state governments.
Marc:And we've been, what, getting our core tighter and being mindful of ourselves and working on me.
Marc:Being in the nap.
Marc:It is apathy, but I think it's sort of like it's still an American thing.
Guest:Well, it's almost like with atheism, too, is like I can't I can't like brush people who don't vote with one with right brush because I'm sure, you know, there's very bright people who don't vote there.
Guest:You know, so like you can brush them with me.
Guest:I mean, what's it?
Guest:What's the analogy to atheism?
Guest:The analogy being that like the caricature of an atheist is that they're like, you know, that they don't have some sort of moral core or they haven't thought it through.
Guest:They don't have some moral center.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That they're these godless heathens or whatever.
Guest:Right.
Guest:When in fact, a lot of atheists are like just the most decent people you know.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:So people who don't vote, I think it runs the spectrum is what I'm saying.
Guest:People who don't vote, you could have...
Guest:People that just don't take their civil responsibility seriously.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And I think you could also have people that really think it through to the point where they're like, I genuinely don't believe this matters.
Marc:Well, those people, you can brush with one stroke and they should vote.
Guest:Yeah, no, I would agree with you.
Guest:Personally, I would agree with you.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:it's just not part of my brain like i'm not craving it i don't feel an absence necessarily unless i i buy into the spiritual dogma yes you know i'm not saying my life is perfect and you know i fill my god hole with you know caffeine and nicotine occasionally and whatever is necessary you could do worse yeah but who called it a god hole anyways maybe that's just being a person being awake sure but uh but now we're getting uh intellectual about it but when you started
Marc:So the team bit, and I hope you're not mad that I didn't watch the whole special yet.
Marc:No, no, of course not.
Guest:There's clips online for people that, yeah, there's a little taste of it.
Guest:Is this the first big special?
Guest:Well, you know, it's interesting because I've put out three.
Guest:This is the third.
Guest:And I've self-produced all three of them.
Guest:So I've kind of done this DIY thing.
Guest:But with this one, what came about was a relationship with Bill Burr and Al Madrigal.
Guest:They have a company, All Things Comedy, that up until now has primarily been a podcast network.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Now they've got their production deal.
Marc:They're big time now.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I know I got a text from Al.
Marc:It's like, wait, Ted's intent.
Marc:I'm like, wow, Al's a, he's doing the, he's the producer guy.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:So yeah, so it was kind of like after I shot this, you know, I had put my own money into it.
Guest:Shot it at the Village Underground, the cellar's second club.
Guest:and then was kind of wondering, where am I gonna distribute this?
Guest:I wanted it, obviously, to be seen by more people.
Guest:So just coincidentally, I had a conversation with Al, and he said, we're starting to distribute specials.
Guest:So for me, it was comedian-owned company, supporting the artist directly, that whole thing.
Guest:It all jibed with- Your sensibility.
Marc:So when you started doing comedy, what was the team thing?
Guest:The team thing was just, I think it was in that period of, okay, I'm not a jazz pianist.
Guest:I'm an education major.
Guest:What am I going to, I still want to be in the arts.
Guest:What am I going to do creatively?
Guest:So I was trying out for the plays that they had there, just started hanging out with the theater department at Queens College.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really funny guy.
Guest:He was putting up shows every semester, kind of SNL style or Monty Python stuff.
Guest:Sketch stuff.
Guest:Sketch stuff.
Guest:And showed him some stuff that I had written and he was like, yeah, this is really great.
Guest:We're going to put this in the show.
Guest:And that for me was the epiphany of, wow, he likes something I wrote and we put it up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, so that was like the spark of like-
Guest:seeing the seed of writing and then putting it up.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:It's like, hey, they're laughing at the thing I did.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:So then he and I just started to go to open mics around Brooklyn, Queens.
Guest:With a bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Couple sketches.
Guest:Some sketches, yeah.
Guest:We actually got past at the comic strip
Guest:for like a second and third audition, but then we didn't- As a team.
Marc:As a team.
Marc:Because I started in a team, too, in college.
Marc:Oh, I didn't know that.
Marc:Yeah, Steve Brill, who's now a director, who I just saw recently.
Marc:We had put something together to audition for something, but then we went out, and we did it a few times, so it didn't really stick.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But it was really, it wasn't like a team, team thing.
Marc:It was more like sketches.
Marc:The teams that do exist, and they're rare,
Marc:there's usually a dynamic, and they do sketch a little bit, but there's usually the goof, you know, there's a thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, it's not always, like, I don't know, were you doing characters?
Marc:I think the only thing we had was that he was shorter than me.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:That's a bit.
Guest:That was our thing.
Guest:Yeah, so it's good for five minutes.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:But it was, you know, it was a good entree into the stand-up world, and I don't know about you, but for me, being in a team was like,
Guest:The drive home was just, or the train ride home was just a cooler thing to talk about how everything had gone.
Guest:Oh, sure, sure.
Guest:That worked, yeah.
Marc:As opposed to just being on the train by yourself going, fuck.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Looking at your notebook.
Marc:What the fuck exactly happened with that?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And you know it's your fault because there's nobody sitting next to you.
Marc:Yeah, and it's just like sad.
Marc:It's the worst, man.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:You remember when I got, I don't know, like, bad sets still fuck with me.
Guest:Well, they should, right?
Guest:I feel at this point like a bad set is a gift because they're in the minority at this point, right?
Guest:So if something goes wrong, it's like an opportunity because a good set you don't really give a second thought to, right?
Guest:You don't think about it.
Guest:You don't analyze it.
Guest:But a bad set, you're like, whoa, what did I do there?
Marc:Well, sometimes I know it's like I'm off, but I also know that audiences can be off.
Marc:But also it's just weird like –
Marc:Because I've been starting to talk about certain things.
Marc:I don't have any problem attacking lately.
Marc:I've got back into sort of an older format that I used to do where I'm just doing these sort of like operatic attacks on Republicans and Jesus.
Marc:But I do a big end of the world scenario that involves Mike Pence.
Marc:And I'm thrilled about that.
Marc:But then when I have to sort of personally approach
Marc:as an older guy who's now in a shifting cultural awareness, you know, what does that mean to me?
Marc:How is my mind changing?
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, because, you know, I was an old school dude, you know, and, you know, there was a language to things and that's changing.
Marc:So I'm changing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I can feel it.
Marc:So how do I approach that?
Marc:And you step into that.
Marc:You must have felt that when you were talking about Lou, too, about Louie.
Marc:It's like, whoa.
Marc:It's not a bit that you can detach from.
Marc:It's like you're all in.
Guest:You're all in.
Marc:And you're on it.
Marc:And you feel like there was a couple of attempts I made at things.
Marc:And it's like, oh, it's not there yet.
Marc:And this is dicey shit.
Marc:And you don't want to be misunderstood.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:So that feeling of like when you do a set and that doesn't work, you're like, when we were younger, we might have bailed.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:But now you're sort of like, I got to figure it out.
Guest:Got to figure it out.
Guest:Yeah, you have to sit in that kind of not knowing.
Guest:Own the mistake.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Because you mean it.
Guest:It's like when you mean what you're saying, the audience knows it, right?
Guest:Even if you're not landing everything.
Guest:Right.
Guest:They know, like, oh, this guy is, you know.
Guest:You feel it.
Marc:You feel an audience go like, what's going on?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But it demands more of you, right?
Guest:Like, because after those sets.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, I remember Gary Goldman saying to me after one of the sets.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's like, are you doing this every night?
Guest:He's like, it's got to be exhausting.
Guest:I'm like, certain sets, I don't do it just because if I had two or three sets in the night, it's like- Right, and you can also feel the room.
Marc:It's sort of like, I want to- Yeah.
Guest:Do I want to fight for the next 10 minutes?
Guest:And the thing is, you have to assess, do I have the energy to do this?
Guest:I just did it one time tonight or two times tonight.
Guest:There's really no need to do it a third time.
Guest:Because it's scary.
Guest:And it's depleting, you know?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It requires a level of concentration.
Marc:I never think in those terms.
Marc:I just think sort of like, do I have the courage, this one?
Marc:You know, because like I know it's I don't think in terms of depleting, but I know I'm going to be in that insanely vibrant present.
Marc:You know, like, you know, like it does require all of you.
Marc:I guess I don't think in terms of like I'm exhausted.
Marc:I just think in terms of like, do I have the fight in me, you know, to to put the room back together if the bottom falls out?
Guest:And what I'm saying is that I think you have to assess that like from show to show, right?
Guest:Because there's nothing wrong with doing a show where it's just fun for you and you're not, you know, because we have a lot of material, right?
Marc:Well, that's the other thing.
Marc:That's the other thing is like, you know, depending on who's been on, there's the idea of like, do I want to ruin the fun?
Marc:Because there's a real chance that like, I'm going to ruin the fun for about a third of these people.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:And do I?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I apologize in advance.
Marc:I'm going to ruin some people's fun right now.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But, you know, I'll pull it back after, you know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, you know, what's funny, too, is like the last few years I've been opening for Jim Gaffigan.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So like.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And that's a pretty that's a pretty, you know, there it's a safe zone.
Guest:Well, yeah, no.
Guest:When I open for Jim, I do stuff that I would do probably for a TV set.
Guest:I mean, there's literally families there.
Guest:There's everything from kids to grandparents.
Guest:And I'm also opening for Jim.
Marc:And you know that.
Marc:Did Jim lay it down for you?
Marc:He's like, could you not?
Marc:No.
Guest:No, he pretty much says, do what you want, but I'm aware of who his audience is and what his brand is.
Guest:So when you're opening for someone, you're aware of that.
Guest:But it's almost like this dual life now of like, obviously I would never do any of the stuff that was in that cellar clear when I'm opening for Jim or the political stuff.
Guest:So stuff that delves into issues that could be polarizing.
Guest:So it is weird to have a foot in both.
Guest:To me,
Guest:They're equally compelling things to explore.
Guest:And I'm sure you have to.
Guest:I mean, you've made your decision.
Guest:It's not even a decision.
Guest:But what I'm saying is there are people who see me when I open for Jim.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:And then if they see something that's more political.
Guest:We didn't think you were.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:Well, no, that happens to me because now people either know me from the podcast or they know me from GLOW, which means they don't know my comedy or they don't know my comedy at all or they've made assumptions about it.
Marc:But, I mean, anyone who knows me on some level knows that I can get political.
Marc:But I had made a choice for years to sort of keep the focus on me and run everything through me.
Marc:Like, you know, what's going on with me in relation to this?
Marc:And I think we all do that to a certain degree.
Marc:But to sort of step outside of that and say, like, this is what's happening.
Guest:Can I ask?
Guest:Because that's interesting to me.
Guest:So that was a conscious decision.
Guest:Because that's something that, like, is on my mind, too, of, like,
Marc:It was about appearing self-righteous.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Because I had to own that, that if I'm coming on top, if I'm coming over them and I'm saying, you don't understand.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Marc:Then that is not a human, I don't have that really.
Marc:It's not really how I feel, but sometimes in order to deliver that kind of stuff, you want that distance, which is somewhat condescending and a little self-righteous, and I don't want to be that guy.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:So like most of the time now, like outside of like larger sort of kind of like elaborate satirical attacks on, you know, the vice president and Christianity.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Which I still try to be diplomatic about.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:By saying like, well, I don't believe this and I understand that some people do and whatever.
Marc:Or I say like, look, I'm not saying I'm not part of this.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I'm part of this.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When I say we're all complicit, I mean me.
Marc:I'm not being condescending.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, we all fucked up.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:So that's how I'm starting to accommodate, you know, what I think is our artistic responsibility, which is to address this shit.
Marc:You can't, you know, for someone like me, I can't go on stage and not being the neurotic, you know, kind of like aggravated person I am.
Marc:I'm not going to.
Marc:detach from what's causing me a tremendous amount of anxiety and fear and try to address it from that point of view.
Marc:Because I think most people are stifled and they do feel, everybody feels a little bit of shame somewhere in there.
Marc:The people that are,
Marc:you know, going like, fuck you, fuck you, you know, their shame has turned into something else.
Marc:They've allowed themselves to become monsters.
Marc:But those of us who just feel guilt for not doing enough or not knowing what to do or not being informed, you know, I can understand that.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:So then I kind of play with that zone.
Marc:But like I was in Denver a couple weeks ago and I realized a half hour in that I had, you know, basically, you know, depressed everybody in the room.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I'd gotten to that point where they're like, well, this is not hopeful at all.
Marc:And I'm like, oh.
Marc:And then I had to, because I felt it.
Marc:It was a dig, but it was sort of like, okay, I know what I did.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:We're all sad now, and I just made it not worse, but I don't assume that you all came here to avoid everything, but I sort of like, there's a difference between saying like, we're fucked, but it's okay to acknowledge it, and maybe it'll be okay, as opposed to just be, we're fucked.
Marc:We're fucked.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And, you know, it's delicate.
Guest:And yeah, it is delicate.
Guest:And I think like that dynamic of and it's that dynamic is present on so many things on stage in life.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Engagement versus detachment.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Am I going to engage with it and really mine it comedically?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or detach from it because maybe I don't have the energy.
Guest:Or the audience, like you said, came to escape this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or depending on the gig, it's not appropriate.
Guest:So, yeah, there's so many ways.
Guest:And it is ever-present.
Guest:Like getting back to that we just got this alert on our phones.
Guest:It's ever-present.
Guest:So, you can't detach from it on some level.
Guest:It's always there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I think comedically we do have the obligation, especially guys who this is what we talk about.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You have to figure out that way of making it entertaining.
Marc:And also I think people are afraid, and I always address the fact that there may be people, like I'll say, like, you know, there may be, you know, Trump supporters in here.
Marc:But then I'll say, but I think at this point, if you were apologizing or blindly supporting this guy, you're probably a shitty person.
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, at some level, you're a little shitty.
Guest:Well, I have a thing I'm not to trade bits.
Guest:On the special, I say, you know, a lot of people said, I wish my grandparents had lived to see Obama get elected as his first black president.
Guest:And, you know, I wish my grandparents had lived to see Trump get elected because they were racist and they would have been very excited about this.
Guest:I'm not saying that everyone who voted for Trump is racist.
Guest:I'm saying my grandparents were.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:If you voted for Trump, you probably would have liked them.
Guest:So it's like finding ways to say things.
Marc:Well, the most difficult part about it is you start to realize that, and I did it on my last special, that we do have
Marc:more in common than we don't, but there's no bridging the ideological gap anymore.
Marc:There's no communication there because there's a wall for the more, you know, for, you know, whatever, 20, 30% of the people that are going to blindly follow him anywhere without, you know, really kind of, you know, weighing his immorality or his pathology or what he's really doing to the government.
Marc:And you just got to cut them loose.
Yeah.
Marc:and hope that they don't get violent or weird during your set.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Well, what's fascinating for us as stand-ups is I think we're kind of among the last spaces where these things are discussed publicly.
Guest:We don't go into a room knowing those numbers.
Guest:We don't have any analysis of who's in front of us.
Guest:I mean, we might have some guests, but we do what we do, right?
Guest:So it's one of the last spaces where...
Marc:ideas just go out into a room full of people but but that but but also it's weird is that that's become threatened by our own self censorship and also by the the cultural reality that depending on what your public profile is you know they can you know create a shit storm for you sure you know like you know if i was a more popular public figure and somebody you know recorded this pence bit i'm doing i would be fucking pummeled sure
Marc:You know, for a lot of different reasons, but because I don't have, you know, that type of traction, you know, I'm not holding up the bloody head of Donald Trump.
Marc:But but but it's interesting that we are afraid of not a a true sort of fascist.
Marc:imperative which is like we will arrest people that do this but there is because of you know social media platforms the minions will be sure there is there is a momentum that can be unleashed that is you know pretty terrifying and
Marc:So like we're up against that possibility.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So but then there's the idea that like you're a comic.
Marc:You know, what about the both sides thing?
Marc:It's like, well, I can do that.
Marc:But but the other side is what it is.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, I'm not saying that my politics are, you know, are deep or right in my stand up.
Marc:But I can't assess, you know, what we're missing.
Marc:All of us.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:In this situation.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's tricky.
Guest:And I also think that with the backlash stuff, we also have the option of just not reading it.
Guest:I don't have to read the comments section on YouTube.
Guest:I don't have to read the comments in Twitter.
Guest:I put work out that I'm proud of.
Guest:I thought it through.
Guest:So you don't read it?
Guest:No, for the most part, I really don't.
Guest:Yeah, I tried it.
Guest:Yeah, I don't.
Guest:Even if there is like the odd thing about you libtard, whatever, blah, blah, blah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I just kind of scroll.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, that doesn't bother me.
Guest:I don't want to know.
Guest:In a comedy club, I don't want to know what everyone thinks.
Guest:We're having this collective.
Guest:It's a collective.
Guest:I don't need to know what every person thinks.
Guest:They're experiencing it all very differently.
Marc:In that moment.
Guest:Right?
Marc:Yeah, but it's a collective.
Marc:But then 100,000 other people can experience like, no, this guy shit on Louie.
Marc:That's right, yeah.
Marc:And they're just watching it at their computer.
Marc:Maybe not even watching it.
Marc:They're just reading the fucking headline.
Guest:Exactly, yeah.
Guest:It's a different thing.
Marc:Yeah, but it's like cancer.
Marc:It's like a very quick-spreading virus.
Marc:I had an interesting moment with that with my producer where I retweeted something, and it got shit from both sides.
Marc:And I said to him, I said, it's a real fucking shitstorm on Twitter.
Marc:He's like, no, it's not.
Marc:If not, it's a shitstorm if a reporter calls you.
Marc:Right, right.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And everything is so fleeting now that, yeah, even if it's a couple days of, oh, wow, people seem to be responding to this.
Marc:Yeah, everything.
Marc:So it's so weird that people are just like sharks, you know, consuming, you know, information, you know, as they just sort of like swim away from self, you know what I mean?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:No moment.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, okay, so when you were out of the team, Lucian passed you?
Marc:Lucian passed me- At the comic strip?
Guest:At the strip, yeah, which was, that was a big deal.
Guest:That was probably the first, you know, because at that time the strip was maybe, I guess, maybe even, correct me if I'm wrong, might have been even a little ahead of the cellar at that point as like an iconic, because the cellar kind of came- Cellar was always its own world.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The strip was an old timey club that, you know, like a lot of people started in, but it's sort of like there was a lot of comics there at a certain point where they were all working, but a lot of them were, you know, like it was sort of, it became sort of a regional thing.
Marc:I think that like, you know, I didn't go up there much.
Marc:He passed me, but I, I, for me, it always becomes like, and then I got to go up there and then, you know, but in like, you know, stand up New York, same thing as like, can't I just, all the way uptown.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Marc:But I mean, I did all of them at some point.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But the strip had a different type of audience.
Marc:It was definitely, I think, you know, the seller was always sort of international and local and the strip was kind of bridge and tunnel-y.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then the stand-up New York was, you know, weird contest people.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:They were there to see for the funniest plumber thing.
Guest:Accounting, right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was an audience thing, but yeah.
Guest:The strip for me was like the first kind of stamp of approval of feeling like, oh, I'm a New York comic now.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Then there was Dangerfields.
Marc:I'm like, I've never set foot in that place.
Marc:I did probably if you were 10.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:Those nights.
Marc:Remember when all the clubs in New York did prom shows?
Marc:They had those prom shows.
Marc:There's a prom show at 5 p.m.
Marc:I'm like, I'm not doing that.
Marc:And you just walk in and be like a whole bunch of kids in their tuxes from the same fucking school.
Marc:It was a fucking night.
Marc:5 p.m.
Guest:or 2 a.m., right?
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:And that was the worst.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:You want to do prom shows?
Marc:No.
Marc:Do you want to do New Year's?
Marc:Not really.
Marc:I don't want to.
Marc:No.
Marc:Why?
Marc:Wait, why?
Marc:Is it really that much money?
Marc:Are you going to pay me a million dollars to do the 1130 on New Year's?
Marc:I'm not doing it.
Marc:Yeah, for 17-year-olds?
Marc:Yeah, I can't do it.
Marc:But so you just kind of jumped through the hoops.
Guest:You did the thing.
Guest:Yeah, you got it, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And things that initially, like I remember the first time I got asked to do a prom show, like you're excited because you hear about them and you're like, oh.
Guest:Yeah, and they pay.
Marc:They pay a couple hundred bucks.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:They pay more.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So yeah, all those things that you kind of take as a little badge of honor, like, yeah, I did that.
Guest:I did that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, but I don't need to do it again.
Marc:Maybe there's one thing you learned.
Marc:I used to dread the Palm Pros because I was always sort of aggravated, angry, hyper-political back in the day.
Marc:It's sort of like, what am I going to do?
Marc:It took me a while to realize I'm not for them.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:You know, it's like Vegas.
Marc:Do you ever go to Vegas?
Marc:No, really.
Marc:I don't love Vegas and I don't.
Guest:Well, that's the thing that I think you get better at as a comic is realizing anything that you say yes to, you don't have to say yes to it a second time.
Guest:Vegas was that for me.
Guest:I did it a lot.
Guest:For years, I would do the Riviera or whatever.
Guest:But then you realize, oh, I don't like this.
Guest:I don't like being here for a week.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Eating and... Remember, did you ever do the...
Marc:the catch out in Princeton where you'd have to, you'd go downstairs and eat in the employee's kitchen.
Marc:The first time you go, it's like, this is pretty good.
Marc:They got a little buffet and then you're like, this is bad.
Guest:This is awful.
Guest:This is sad.
Guest:I can't do this.
Marc:The way they had the fish swimming out front in front of the club.
Marc:Yeah, right, right, right.
Marc:Yeah, in that weird atrium.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:oh man yeah good times good times but then there were good clubs but um but so you like it was weird that you know you worked you like i always thought he was like a queens guy new york guy you know and uh i never really saw you out here but you know you did all the things you did letterman when he was there you did like and all that started happening yeah it's funny you know um because some people especially of late like with the special coming out uh do you know being more visible people say like
Marc:why i haven't heard of you or the clip that came out like why haven't i heard of you right well that's like well if i if i have been hiding it's been on letterman well that's that's the weirdest thing is like it's you know i've learned you've got to look at that as a good thing yeah of course because like you know it just means you're still discoverable i mean i still at this point almost 10 years in or nine years and change really nine years in with the podcast you know i still still see people going like i just found mark maron's podcast it's like
Marc:What do we expect?
Marc:Look, if you're not fucking Kanye or Kevin Hart, it's like, how do people watch anything?
Guest:That's right.
Marc:That's the weird thing is you think, oh, I put all this stuff out there.
Marc:For years, you're sort of like, I can't do that because I've already done it.
Marc:I did it four years ago on Conan.
Marc:It's like, no one saw it, dude.
Marc:Nobody saw it, right?
Marc:you know what i mean yeah maybe your fans did but that's the other thing is that you you don't want to disappoint the people that have been with you by doing old material or whatever sure yeah so for the four people that are like you know i saw that bit and i'm like all right yes what do you want from me yeah everybody loves free bird leave me alone yes can you be patient while the others catch on to it you know or enjoy it again yes
Marc:How about that?
Marc:Comedy's not quite like that, though, because they know what's coming.
Marc:And it's not like music where you're like, I can just sway and I can remember what it was like when I was a kid.
Guest:But I don't know if that's necessarily true.
Guest:If it's a longer piece like the one you're describing, I think there is something to seeing it again live.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:No, no, I think that's true.
Guest:Because people are too quick to say, oh, no, the element of surprise is...
Marc:Some people get disappointed.
Marc:I was in Denver.
Marc:I'm doing these hour and a half sets that are all new shit.
Marc:And then there's some lady going like, what about the kitten?
Marc:I did a cat bit.
Marc:And I'm like, really?
Marc:And the weird thing is sometimes I don't even remember bits that are even a year old.
Marc:Like when I shelve it, it's sort of like I got to drop the needle in.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:And hopefully it'll pick up.
Guest:My wife says that to me all the time.
Guest:She has a really photographic memory.
Guest:She'll be like, why don't you do that bit about this anymore?
Guest:I'm like, I don't even know if I remember that bit.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:It's weird, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then some bits on some of my specials, I did it twice.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Because I always leave room in my specials to have a little kind of throw something in there.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And then even if it works, I'm like, oh yeah, I think that was the only time I did that bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I did Conan recently and I threw in a line that I'd never done before.
Guest:And yeah, there is something cool about like in that moment where it's supposed to be like locked to like just leaving that little space to be scared, you know?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And even in standup shows, sometimes I'll walk off of doing an hour plus and the only thing that hung with me is that like I did that one thing that that was the best moment and I don't think it'll ever happen again.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I can't add it in.
Marc:It was something that happened there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And that's supposed to be, that's like the beauty of it.
Marc:But then there's part of it's like, I wish I could fix it and make that happen every time.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, I think it gets back to what we're saying about that requires a level of, you also have to do some work prior to getting on stage, I think, for me anyway, with certain parts of those.
Guest:Sometimes they'll happen organically in the moment and then great.
Guest:But to me, there has to be the work put in prior, which for me is like maybe just sitting, writing, almost journaling so that the stuff is germinating and it's not hatched yet.
Marc:Maybe it's not even comedic yet.
Marc:Right, exactly.
Marc:That's what I do.
Marc:You look at my notebooks, there's not one funny thing in there.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:Yeah, for sure.
Marc:Just these weird ideas and sayings and like observations.
Marc:But that's like, you know, that's I think the act of writing it, even if you never look at it occasionally.
Marc:I agree.
Marc:It's how your brain works.
Marc:And, you know, you have at least you have some physical evidence of the thought process because you might not get that back.
Guest:Yeah, you made it real.
Guest:It went from, yeah, just dancing around in your head to it's on paper.
Marc:Yeah, and it's usually part of a larger idea that you might not have had yet, but if you can re-spark it by making a note and be like, oh yeah, that's still sort of in there doing something.
Marc:How am I going to get that out?
Marc:So I met your wife.
Marc:I didn't know you'd have a wife.
Marc:There's a new thing.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:We're married about a year now.
Marc:And so, I know it's weird.
Marc:You're just one of the New York guys that I never knew a lot about.
Marc:I assume that you led an ascetic life, like a monk of some kind, where you're just in an apartment, perhaps meditating or thinking about how you can help the world.
Marc:No.
Marc:But no, it seems like you have a very nice wife and, you know, you seem happy and you live in a regular life.
Marc:How'd you meet her?
Guest:I think my monastic years have been rewarded.
Guest:You know, I put in my time.
Guest:Yeah, you're not far off.
Guest:I was kind of, I was, I think, wholly committed to the comedic life.
Guest:So I wasn't in a whole lot of like long-term relationships, you know.
Guest:It kind of wasn't on my radar of like, I was just so, yeah, I was focused on comedy.
Guest:I met Madeline like 10 years ago.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And yeah, kind of fell in love back then.
Guest:You dated?
Guest:Yeah, we dated for a year and a half, two years.
Guest:10 years ago.
Guest:Yeah, but she was like in college.
Guest:So a friend had, the same friend that I mentioned earlier, Hollis, who I started comedy with, he introduced us.
Guest:He's like, I met this girl I think you would hit it off with.
Guest:And we did, we hit it off immediately dated, but she was young.
Guest:So then 10 years went by, you know, she, she broke it off with me and I was kind of like heartbroken for a while, but then moved on, dated other people.
Guest:10 years went by and, uh, she reached out to me a few years back and, uh, said she was back in New York.
Guest:She had lived, uh, in LA, Puerto Rico.
Guest:She'd been around.
Guest:She was in Italy for a while.
Guest:Um,
Guest:So yeah, we just kind of picked right up and it was like this amazing thing of like 10 years went by, but it might as well have been a minute and, you know, still loved her and we just picked up and yeah.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:It's just a great thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:What's the age difference?
Guest:18 years.
Guest:17.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was a little 17 and a half.
Marc:I'm at 15, but I think once you get in your 50s and they're approaching 40, it's like, that's okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's not the same as, you know, like 40 and 20.
Marc:She's a woman.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:You know?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Look, congratulations on the special, on the marriage.
Marc:You seem great.
Marc:Thanks, buddy.
Marc:Congratulations to you as well.
Marc:I told you how happy I am.
Marc:Oh, thank you.
Marc:That's very nice.
Marc:Good seeing you, man.
Marc:You too, pal.
Thank you.
Marc:All right, that was great.
Marc:I love Ted.
Marc:Great guy.
Marc:Funny guy.
Marc:His special, Senior Class of Earth, available through all things comedy.
Marc:Go to atcspecials.com to buy or rent it.
Marc:And don't forget, it's 30% off all merch at podswag.com.
Marc:Just enter WTF at checkout.
Marc:Dig it.
Marc:I'm just going to play three chords over and over again now with some effects.
Guest:Boomer lives!