Episode 970 - Annie Lederman
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucksters what the fuck is happening what the fuck turkey day what does that even mean why would i say that was that even necessary turkey i don't even think i've ever used turkey day as a saying or as a way to describe thanksgiving it's turkey day who says that it's like this is gonna be fun who says that
Marc:I don't say either of those things.
Marc:All right, we're going to eat the thing.
Marc:It's Thanksgiving, and I'll cook, and I'll do, all right, okay.
Marc:No, it'll be good.
Marc:That's my version of that sounds fun.
Marc:No, it'll be good.
Marc:It's gotten easier for me.
Marc:It's actually going pretty well.
Marc:I only got cranky for about 10 minutes.
Marc:This is only day one.
Marc:I've done a lot of the cooking already.
Marc:You're going to be listening to this on Thursday.
Marc:Today is Wednesday, and I've knocked out most of the meal.
Marc:Because as some of you know who listen to the show, I do a lot of the cooking around here.
Marc:We flew in, me and Sarah the painter, and we went to, we checked in the hotel, we went to my mother's house and said hello to her and went to dinner with her and John, John the jazz man.
Marc:He's not really a jazz man.
Marc:He's now 80 something.
Marc:I think he's 80, maybe 81 he's gonna be.
Marc:My mom's getting up there.
Marc:I can't say her age.
Marc:37, the last she told me, was the age.
Marc:37, I think, is where we capped off.
Marc:But I think she's older than that.
Marc:That's all I'm going to say, because she enjoys listening to the program.
Marc:I don't need to hear about it.
Marc:So we went out to dinner, had a fairly mediocre but large plate meal.
Marc:I think that's the way it works down here in Florida, that it's not about quality.
Marc:It's about what you can box up and take home and eat for three days.
Marc:Not my mother, really, but I think for most people.
Marc:Did I mention Annie Letterman is on the show today?
Marc:Annie Letterman is here.
Marc:I've known Annie a long time.
Marc:She used to open for me occasionally.
Marc:And I like her.
Marc:She's kind of... How do you describe Annie?
Marc:She's got moxie.
Marc:She's got edge.
Marc:She's a little filthy.
Marc:But she's funny, funny.
Marc:So right when we got here Tuesday night, Whole Foods snagged the Brussels sprouts, snagged all the stuff I needed.
Marc:Now, those of you who are listening regularly heard my big plan for kabocha squash.
Marc:That was the the triangular sections rubbed with ghee and then sprinkled with garam masala and then roasted.
Marc:Well, we got to Whole Foods, no kabocha squash.
Marc:So I didn't freak out.
Marc:I wasn't going to go on a journey looking for it.
Marc:There was a real good chance that most people wouldn't give a shit either way that was eating it.
Marc:but if they didn't have it at whole foods wasn't going to happen so i i decided to just get the yams but then i decided not to do it the way that i was going to do it i'm going to do it like the squash so this is the predicament right now and then we can talk about deeper things is that i i cut up the yams in sections and then i rub them i i just uh
Marc:Coated them with coconut oil and garam masala and salt and then roasted them, but they don't have the same texture as squash.
Marc:They get a little mushier and I thought they would brown, almost fry up like.
Marc:They did not, but they taste great and they look good.
Marc:But I'm in a situation right now where I've got about less than 24 hours to decide whether or not I should just go ahead and mash them.
Marc:Like I could serve them in the cubes that are mushy cubes because they're yams, or I could mash them and make them uniform and maybe garnish it with some shredded coconut or something.
Marc:Still an exciting, provocative recipe, but now I'm just to mash or not to mash.
Marc:That's where I'm at right now.
Marc:And I don't know if you've ever been there, but it's not an easy place to be.
Marc:All right, so let's get down to business.
Marc:Let's get down to the emotional situation.
Marc:Where are you at?
Marc:What's going on?
Marc:Now, I'm going to talk directly to you.
Marc:You know who you are.
Marc:Okay, if you're listening to this, it's Thanksgiving.
Marc:You're plugged in.
Marc:Maybe you're even on your way, but this is crisis management right now, and I do this every year.
Marc:But if you've pulled away to get your mind off things or pull yourself out of an emotionally precarious, tense situation with family, spouse, that's family, kids, still family, that neighbor that you don't like there, not quite family, but they call it family anyways.
Marc:It doesn't count.
Marc:But my point is, do we need to take a walk?
Marc:Is it time to take a walk?
Marc:How cold is it outside?
Marc:Did you come prepared?
Marc:Do you have the right sweater?
Marc:Is there a sweater upstairs that you have from when you were growing up that you could put on if you didn't bring a sweater because you don't live in a cold place anymore?
Marc:Is there a hat available?
Marc:What I'm saying is, if you're about to lose your mind, if you're about to unload on your uncle, your father, your mother, that neighbor, you could probably unload on the neighbor.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:What do you really got to lose?
Marc:So your parents will say like, you really hurt Mrs. Johnson's feelings or Mr. Civics.
Marc:Is that a weird last name?
Marc:How about Mr. Spandowski's feelings when you unloaded on him because of his wrong-minded political views?
Marc:You can live with that.
Marc:With the parents or the sisters and brothers, I don't know, that stuff can reverberate for months, maybe years.
Marc:So before you do that,
Marc:take a walk.
Marc:Let's go outside, get a breath of fresh air.
Marc:Let's think it over because honestly, my mother's boyfriend, John, he's a nice guy.
Marc:And, uh, uh, I guess, and I, you know, I like him.
Marc:He's, you know, it's, he's one of those people, he talks a lot, he tells stories and, uh,
Marc:You know, it could seem like, wow, I've heard this story.
Marc:This is the ninth time I've heard this story.
Marc:I don't think he's listening to as much music as he used to, which is odd.
Marc:I think that he should because it kept him.
Marc:It kept his mind occupied.
Marc:My point is that I will probably snap at him at least once.
Marc:One good one before I leave.
Marc:And my mother, I think I mildly snapped at her, but then it became clear to me because Sarah the painter said that we're both similar, that maybe that's just the way we communicate emotionally sometimes.
Marc:But I'm saying that you might not be at that point.
Marc:You might be in a crisis situation.
Marc:Here's a couple other things I want you to remember.
Marc:They're old.
Marc:They're old people.
Marc:Maybe you're not as old as me, but maybe they're just older people.
Marc:But when they get old, they're not gonna change.
Marc:Nothing you're gonna say is gonna change them.
Marc:What you're gonna do really is just distract them from the thing that's never gonna change and make them upset with you, either angry or hurt.
Marc:And then you've accomplished nothing
Marc:other than set yourself up for an apology of some sort in the near or distant future.
Marc:So if you're taking a walk now, it's the right thing to do.
Marc:See, breathe it in.
Marc:Remember, you grew up here.
Marc:Remember, your wife grew up here.
Marc:Remember, this is where your parents live now.
Marc:Remember when you were a kid and everything was okay?
Marc:That shit's over.
Marc:Oh, sorry.
Marc:That shouldn't have been part of the guided meditation.
Marc:I apologize.
Marc:I apologize.
Marc:I'm not even getting laughs from my girlfriend anymore.
Marc:If there's one fucking person, she's in the room.
Marc:I can.
Marc:Oh, the towels here.
Marc:Hey, you guys, something real is happening.
Marc:The towels are here.
Marc:How, how many?
Marc:I get laughs, but you're also working.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:How many towels?
Marc:That's a lot of towels.
Marc:What are you kissing me?
Marc:You can do that on the mic.
Marc:Wasn't that a nice moment?
Marc:The house cleaning staff brought towels.
Marc:We had a small discussion about why she wasn't laughing, and she made me feel that she did laugh occasionally at me, and we had a kiss.
Marc:That's what's happening the day before Thanksgiving right now, looking at the ocean.
Marc:Tomorrow, we're in the shit, people.
Marc:We're in the shit.
Marc:All right, it's all happening.
Marc:But here's what happened the other day.
Marc:We're staying at this hotel.
Marc:And we go down for breakfast.
Marc:We get to the lobby and there's a fucking fire alarm going on, like loud.
Marc:There's that flashing light.
Marc:There's something being said like, please leave the building.
Marc:But it's like the entire fucking lobby.
Marc:So right when we get off,
Marc:the elevator the security guy's like don't worry don't worry it's a test don't worry everything's okay and that was enough right he was wearing a uniform okay we'll believe you guy with a uniform security guy but then we go into breakfast thinking that it might not last that long and we're seated and we order food then it's like I'm not even sure what the sound was but that was annoying enough to give the idea of it
Guest:meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh meh flashing light flashing light flashing light meh meh and everybody is sitting there just eating their fucking breakfast
Marc:Families of people just, you know, pass me the waffle.
Marc:Is that syrup?
Marc:You want to taste this?
Marc:Kids, just nobody is even registering it.
Marc:And it is loud.
Marc:It is oppressive.
Marc:It is menacing.
Marc:But everyone, because they were told it was OK, is just sitting there in this chaotic alarm situation.
Marc:Except for me, I was like, what the fuck?
Marc:How long is this going to go on for?
Marc:Now, I'm not saying I'm better than other people, but at some point I was like, why are we tolerating this?
Marc:But that's not the analogy or metaphor I'm trying to illustrate.
Marc:I just thought it was a fitting metaphor for where we're at globally and culturally.
Marc:Just people, families of all kinds sitting there eating as if nothing's happening and there's a fucking fire alarm, loud as shit, just wailing.
Marc:And everyone's sort of like, hmm, this is good.
Marc:Do you like your pancakes?
Marc:Are we going to the beach today?
Marc:And I kind of realized, I kind of feel that way all the time.
Marc:Because I look at the news a lot and I see the rising waters.
Marc:So that was the experience I had.
Marc:To me, it was like, all you need is one guy with a little bit of authority to tell you there's nothing to worry about and you'll sit through the alarm.
Marc:You'll sit through all of them and you'll enjoy your waffle.
Marc:So Annie Letterman is here.
Marc:She wrote on the last Sacha Baron Cohen show and she's been doing standup a long time.
Marc:And I think I met her and I got, where did I meet her?
Marc:I think I met her in New York and she opened for me in Philly.
Marc:I know that.
Marc:And she's unique and she's funny.
Marc:And this is her and I talking back at the garage.
Oh,
.
.
Marc:I'm trying to think when I met you, and I know that I asked you to middle for me in Philadelphia.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But, like, where did I meet you first?
Guest:We went to a meeting together.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:We went to a meeting in Silver Lake, I think.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Out here?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And you were like, it's at 8 a.m., and I was like, are you seriously going to fucking make me get up at 8 a.m., you piece of shit?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:This fucking asshole.
Marc:And you did it.
Marc:But that didn't stick, though, huh?
Guest:I mean, I did my 90 and 90.
Guest:I quit drinking in 2009, January 28th.
Guest:And I did my 90 and 90, so I went once a day for 90 days.
Guest:And then I really started to not, I don't know, I didn't want to talk about drinking all the time.
Guest:I quit drinking after my first open mic, so I was really kind of wanting to put as much energy into stand-up as I could.
Marc:You were just starting out then?
Guest:In 2009, yeah.
Marc:But you were a New York comic.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you had just moved out here?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But were you out here permanently?
Guest:I ended up going back and forth, but I was out here for... I didn't know you in New York.
Marc:I knew you because you used to hang with some pretty dirty guys.
Guest:Who, like Norton and stuff?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That's how I knew you.
Marc:You're like one of the women that could run with that mess of people.
Guest:Yeah, it was fun.
Guest:I loved going on the road to the gym.
Guest:That was great, yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's right.
Marc:You opened for gym.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:I opened for gym for a little while.
Guest:That was like my- That was your training?
Guest:Well, yeah, it definitely trained me in some shit.
Guest:I mean, I remember the first time I opened forum was in Caroline's hit me up and I had done like their Caroline's funniest or whatever.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like do one minute of material.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So horrible.
Guest:I mean, to do one minute of material, I couldn't even imagine.
Guest:It's the worst.
Guest:and so caroline's had me and i guess he wanted a female opener to kind of balance him but i remember him saying to me he's like he's like what i like about you and he's you're like me and the fact that you'll tattletale on yourself like it's like constant like self-confession i guess but it's just like sometimes i'm like annie shut the fuck up like let people draw their own don't tell everyone what's wrong with you immediately but i can't like so those were your first big paying gigs were working for working opening for jim
Guest:yeah and then i got i did that audience i mean that audience is like i would imagine you know mostly men uh you know filthy men yeah but but shamelessly filthy and and kind of sweet yeah i mean i okay so the way i got the gig i remember i was at a coffee shop and i'll never forget it and i was uh i got the text yeah or the call or something about opening for him from the manager yeah and i'd never met i had never met him before so i was like so excited i was just a fan of his he saw you somewhere
Guest:He, they offered him, he wanted, he was like, who are the, like the newer female comedians or whatever, or whoever, like who are the openers.
Guest:I remember like I was leaving a coffee shop and I just got really confident.
Guest:I kind of just sharted my, I remember I sharted a little.
Guest:I fucking, yeah, I swear to God, I fucking shit my pants a little.
Guest:I just told Jim that story recently.
Marc:You told me when you heard that.
Guest:Yeah, I was like excited.
Guest:I was like, I was like, oh, my God.
Marc:So you like I thought that was just a saying.
Marc:No, I shit my pants.
Marc:I'm so excited.
Marc:I shit my pants.
Guest:Yeah, I shit my pants.
Guest:Well, shit in your pants, you know, is happening.
Guest:So it's different.
Guest:I always feel like it's such a more like more of a betrayal because you really trusted yourself.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But sometimes you're sort of like, it's not full trust.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I took the leap of faith.
Marc:I said, it's a good day today.
Guest:It was like birds were chirping in Brooklyn.
Guest:I was like so excited.
Guest:I'm leaving this coffee shop.
Guest:And I called my dad and I was like, I just shit my pants.
Marc:Just for that you called him?
Marc:Well, yeah.
Guest:I wanted to talk about the gym thing.
Guest:And then I also wanted to tell him about...
Marc:Shit in my pants.
Marc:How did he respond?
Guest:He got mad at me and hung up because when I called him back, I was like, why?
Guest:What's going on?
Guest:And he was like, I'm sick of you and your mother's pranks.
Guest:I'm like, what are you talking about mom for?
Guest:My mom had shit her pants at the exact same time, like moments before.
Marc:Is this a real story?
Guest:I swear to God.
Guest:So my dad thought that we were like pranking him, but really we had just like shit each other's pants.
Guest:but did you did you call your mother and say like can you believe that happened to us at the same time yeah but hers was like hers was like she realized she shit her pants when she was doing her laundry like which is grosser right she didn't know that she like she hadn't noticed oh so she didn't it wasn't a timing thing so it wasn't maybe exactly the same time but she had just realized it at the same moment that i said that to my dad oh that's exciting my dad thought we were pranking him yeah it was great yeah it was fun
Marc:But opening for Jim, I mean, I have to, how was it?
Marc:Because that's a hell of a baptism.
Marc:That's a big crowd of a certain type.
Marc:And I'm not being condescending.
Marc:I mean, I like those guys.
Marc:I like Jim.
Marc:But I can't imagine like the requirements for his audience have to be some pretty high level of filth and self-actualization.
Guest:It was the first time I opened for him was very, I was scared of them.
Guest:You know, like I went out really fearful and I didn't have a good set.
Guest:And then they ended up switching me to the host, which is so humiliating.
Marc:Well, yeah, the fear thing will fuck you every time.
Guest:Right, I can't go afraid of them.
Guest:But that taught me a very valuable lesson.
Guest:Because then I came out swinging the next time.
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:Then I was like, fuck all you guys.
Marc:Whatever.
Marc:Oh, yeah, so that was it.
Guest:Because the Duke lacrosse, this was like before I think that was found not true.
Guest:But it was like, I'm like, what do you guys play?
Guest:You know, just like, you know.
Marc:You gave it to them.
Guest:Yeah, I was like, I'll show you.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, that's good, though.
Marc:That's a good tool to have.
Guest:But when I first got in, the first spots I got were actually from Donnell Rollins.
Marc:Donnell, yeah.
Guest:I had met Donnell in New York.
Marc:I just saw him the other day.
Guest:He's the best.
Guest:He's so fun.
Marc:He's a sweet guy, too.
Marc:Like, he just started talking about something about his dad.
Marc:Like, out of nowhere, I got him in the middle of some heavy thought about his father the other night, and he just laid it on me, and it was kind of sweet.
Guest:Yeah, he is really, he's like a really sweet, he's a sweet guy.
Marc:Deep guy.
Guest:Yeah, he's awesome.
Guest:But so when I met him, I had wanted to do comedy.
Guest:I was living in New Mexico.
Guest:We have that in common.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I was living in Santa Fe.
Marc:Did I know that?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I went to the College of Santa Fe, which is dearly departed.
Yeah.
Marc:Oh, it's not St.
Marc:John's, the College of Santa Fe.
Guest:St.
Guest:John's, they make you read.
Marc:Right.
Guest:College of Santa Fe, they went on business.
Marc:All right, we'll get back to that.
Marc:So Donnell, he gave you your first.
Guest:So Donnell, I knew this guy from Santa Fe, my friend Paul Shin, who was friends with Esther Koo.
Guest:They just had gone to college together.
Marc:Esther Koo, the comedian?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:And then so when I had said that I wanted to do comedy, I'd moved to New York to do comedy.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:My friend Paul was like, you should meet my friend Esther.
Guest:And then Esther was like, you should come to this party at my friend Donnell's house.
Guest:And I'm like, Ashley, Larry, that's awesome.
Guest:So then I go to the party and I'm talking to his friend.
Guest:I can't remember his friend's name.
Marc:Who, Donnell's?
Guest:Yeah, Donnell had this friend who I was talking to and he was like, oh, you're funny.
Guest:Are you a comedian?
Guest:And I was like, well, actually, I got all nervous.
Guest:I was like, I don't know.
Guest:I want to do it.
Guest:But and he was like, yo, Donnell, she wants to do comedy.
Guest:I was like in front of everyone.
Guest:I was so embarrassed.
Guest:And Donnell was like, I got a show on Monday.
Guest:Come do it.
Guest:And I was like, well, I'm not really ready.
Guest:I think I'd done maybe one open mic.
Guest:I quit drinking like the week before.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, I don't know if I'm ready.
Guest:And he humiliated.
Guest:I mean, he went like, he's like, dude, don't say you want to do something and not do it.
Guest:He's like, everybody's got to do it.
Guest:I'm so grateful for it.
Guest:But he was like, go hard or go home.
Guest:And I was so embarrassed.
Guest:So what I did was I showed up that Monday and he ended up being like, we'll just come next week.
Guest:And then I came the next week and I brought people and stuff.
Marc:Oh, so he wanted to test you first?
Guest:Well, he was like, yeah, he was like, don't like, I mean, he really went hard.
Guest:He really like, he yelled at me.
Marc:But when you showed up, you didn't go on?
Guest:When I showed up at that show, no, he didn't have me go on.
Marc:And what'd you have, like five minutes, five jokes, two jokes?
Guest:I mean, probably, yeah.
Marc:What were you, like 19?
Guest:No, I was 25.
Guest:25?
Guest:It was my birthday yesterday, I'm 35.
Marc:Oh, happy birthday.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:But you were just out of college at 25?
Guest:Well, sort of.
Guest:I just quit drinking.
Guest:So I was like, you know, I went to college for about eight years.
Guest:I went to undergrad for a long time because I was drinking so much.
Guest:Eight years?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's really long.
Guest:Well, I was like, you know, it was incompletes.
Guest:I wasn't like, you know, so I was like, you know, I would take like a semester off or whatever to, you know, pay more attention to Jaeger.
Marc:Oh, Jaeger was the thing?
Guest:I quit Jaeger first.
Marc:Jaeger, that leads to some bad shit in my experience.
Marc:Yes, it does.
Marc:For some reason, that particular liquor does, it opens you up.
Guest:Yeah, I used to drink it by the pint.
Guest:I was dating this bartender, well, dating, whatever, dating this bartender in New Mexico, and they had a Jaeger machine, and he would just give me pints of Jaeger.
Marc:A Jaeger machine.
Guest:I would just wake up with just, like, you know, my knees were all torn out because I would fall down drunk.
Guest:So embarrassing.
Marc:Well, that's better than, like, lining up dicks.
Guest:Yeah, I guess.
Guest:What, like a Plinko chip?
Guest:Boing.
Marc:So, like, I remember, so you're open for me, you're middle for me, right, in Philly?
Mm-hmm.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I think we were driving around your mom's car.
Guest:My mom had an eBay drop off store.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And she had a van that had a wrap on it that said like, we'll sell your stuff on eBay and primary eBay colors.
Marc:Why were we driving around in that?
Marc:Did you drive down from the city?
Guest:I was living in New York.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But where was her store?
Guest:Her store was out of her house.
Marc:In Philly?
Guest:Yeah, in the suburbs of Philly.
Marc:Oh, so you were staying at your mom's.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And we're driving around.
Guest:We're driving around.
Guest:I was so pissed I didn't get a picture of that.
Guest:That's so funny.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did we get sandwiches?
Guest:We got sandwiches and we went to the art museum.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it was fun.
Guest:We did some cultured stuff.
Guest:Yeah, it was good.
Guest:I remember texting you like, I think that was really fun.
Guest:And then you were trying to ghost me.
Marc:I was?
Marc:I don't think so.
Guest:Yeah, a week later.
Guest:You were being a little.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And I went, you can't be cold to the cold.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I'm too much like you, Mark.
Guest:You're not going to get rid of me.
Okay.
Marc:Was I nice to you?
Marc:Yes, you were.
Marc:Oh, well, that's good.
Marc:But where did you grow up?
Guest:I grew up in the suburbs of Philadelphia.
Marc:So you are from Philly, so that she was there.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And you have brothers and sisters?
Guest:Yeah, I have a twin brother, and I have an older brother.
Marc:Twin brother.
Marc:What did that guy end up doing?
Guest:He works in sports TV.
Guest:He's in Boston, and he's a producer at NBC Sports, New England.
Marc:A suburb of Philly.
Marc:I think Philly's a rough place.
Marc:How so?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I talk to people from there, and they have a definite edge to them.
Marc:Yeah, we're cool.
Marc:You're kind of like that.
Marc:You can't really fuck with them.
Guest:No, I mean, I don't know where I got my confidence.
Guest:I mean, well, I don't know.
Marc:And you're seeing Kurt Metzger now.
Marc:He's Philly, right?
Guest:Well, he's from Toms River, New Jersey, but he started comedy in Philly.
Marc:Right, him and Jay, Kevin Hart, that Philly crew.
Marc:Joe DeRosa.
Guest:Yeah, DeRosa.
Guest:I talked to him today.
Marc:You did?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's a sweet guy.
Marc:He's the best.
Marc:He's a little soft for Philly.
Guest:He is soft for Philly, but he's got it in him to do it.
Guest:Oh, no, definitely.
Marc:No, he's definitely Philly, but he's sort of a softer Philly.
Guest:He's like Norristown, I think.
Marc:Oh, is that what it is?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:So were your parents together?
Guest:Yeah, my parents were together.
Guest:My dad worked at Penn.
Marc:He did as a teacher?
Guest:Yeah, he was the treasurer.
Marc:The treasurer of Penn.
Marc:And then my mom had a bunch of- So that's a good job.
Marc:So you could use the pool over there and stuff?
Yeah.
Guest:No, we never went.
Guest:I never went.
Guest:I would go to work with him sometimes, but I never really used the facilities.
Guest:He retired when I was 15.
Guest:My dad's 77.
Guest:He retired when I was 15.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:And what did your mom do?
Guest:My mom did different jobs.
Guest:When I was a little kid, she worked at...
Guest:this organization called gray panthers it was an organization for yeah old against yeah ageism and stuff which maybe you care about now uh-huh probably not the time okay yeah i can you look great you look great that's very nice so you look good so that's all right so you the makeup's working for you yeah so i put so much on i know i'm surprised bonnie was like i talked to bony mcfarland today i was like i'm gonna go do mine she's like what are you gonna wear so funny you smoking weed so yeah i smoke weed no i didn't smoke today or anything no drinking no drinking
Marc:Just weed.
Guest:Just weed.
Guest:And I go in and out of being completely sober and then smoking weed or whatever.
Guest:And I've done like hallucinogens and stuff pretty recently.
Marc:Did it help out?
Marc:Did it help?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you do them for clinical reasons or for fun?
Guest:For sure.
Marc:Which one?
Guest:I did mushrooms, acid and DMT in the past couple of years.
Marc:uh-huh and these were experiments or yeah it wasn't party time it was sort of like no no no never party time my life is a party i have fun at the dmv you know uh-huh but yeah but like what like well let's go back to when did you start i can tell you all of those i will no i'll take it yeah but like what happened like how what how were you so fucked up that you needed to get sober when you were in your early 20s what when you were a kid what was going on where'd you go to school what was the deal
Guest:I went to a Quaker school called Green Street Friends School in Dermatown Friends.
Marc:Oh, but that was because it was a good school.
Guest:Yeah, my mom, one of the jobs that she did, she wrote the newsletter for the school, so she really liked the idea of Quakerism, and she decided to raise me and my brother's Quaker.
Marc:Just because you liked the idea?
Guest:Yeah, well, we didn't have a... Like, she wasn't brought up very religious at all, and my dad wasn't very religious.
Guest:He was in Vietnam, and I think he found God, but I've never really had that conversation with him.
Marc:And he's still around?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Wait a minute.
Marc:So your dad was... What religion were they?
Guest:My dad, they both were brought up.
Guest:I mean, my dad's father wasn't in the picture really, but he was Jewish, but they never celebrated.
Guest:And then they celebrated Christmas.
Guest:My grandmother was Christian.
Guest:And then we thought for a while she was Jewish and she was adopted.
Guest:So there's like a lot of adoption in this thing.
Marc:Have you done the genetic thing?
Guest:Yeah, 20% Jewish.
Marc:And what's the rest?
Guest:The rest is boring.
Guest:It's like British or something.
Guest:We're like from England.
Guest:I thought I was Russian because people literally come speaking Russian to me in distress.
Marc:I could see you looking Russian-ish.
Guest:They come like I'm going to save them or something.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Just on the street?
Marc:In Philly a lot.
Marc:Russians would come up to you?
Marc:I swear to God.
Marc:Panic in their face?
Marc:Help me, they're not understanding.
Guest:You're the only one that will know.
Guest:But also when I was in, I used to live in Greenpoint in Brooklyn and everyone's Polish.
Guest:So if I was in a bad mood, they just started speaking Polish to me.
Guest:Right.
Guest:If you're frowning, you're definitely.
Marc:You do look a little, I can see that happening.
Marc:But your dad was in Vietnam, like the real deal?
Guest:He didn't have to shoot his gun or anything.
Guest:He was a mechanic, a plane mechanic.
Guest:My dad went to school for engineering, and then he ended up going to Wharton.
Guest:My dad's really smart, but ADD.
Marc:But your mom just decided Quakerism.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Quakerism is really cool.
Guest:I'm glad it gave me a good.
Marc:Would you consider yourself like a Quaker?
Guest:Uh, sure.
Guest:I mean, I, well, I went after the election, I was kind of like going to Quaker meeting again for a little bit.
Marc:The last election?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Really?
Marc:You were going to Quaker meeting?
Guest:Yeah, I started going back.
Guest:yeah well it's on Sundays you just go and you sit in a in a room on these benches facing each other and you just sit in silence and the whole theory is like if you feel moved to speak yeah God speaking through but it's people just stand up and say kind of whatever they feel moved to say that's a a ritual of Quakerism yeah that's the Quaker meeting that's the church but there's two different there's programmed and unprogrammed Quakers so programmed Quakers make up the majority of it but not in the area I'm from so programmed programmed is they have a
Guest:they have a preacher and stuff and they go by the bible and stuff so it was crazy i remember going okay go ahead yeah when i was younger i would go to like quaker youth retreats and in my area unprogrammed quakerism is just like everyone's a lesbian everyone's gay everyone's like crazy hair like it was just a very inviting because it's the whole theory of it is that god is in the form of an inner light that everyone has so oh really so it's not an old religion
Guest:I don't know when it was founded, but let's talk about Quaker meetings.
Marc:You knew enough that you didn't go to church.
Marc:You weren't programmed Quaker, but you did go to.
Guest:We used to go to church.
Guest:We would go to Quaker meeting, which was church.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So all the kids, you and your twin brother and your older brother, my twin was like, you would always stand up.
Guest:He's like, I would talk.
Guest:yeah but I remember the nerves and stuff it kind of reminds I mean it makes me think of stand up a lot sure you know it's where I practice my you know dick jokes or whatever can you imagine I mean I could they would have to accept it as Quaker as a man the Quaker talks they would have to just like politely maybe right someone will pull you aside like maybe maybe watch the language but I've cursed in meeting before felt great
Marc:So you did this a lot.
Marc:I mean, you were really brought up in the Quaker thing.
Guest:But not that heavily.
Guest:When we were younger, then we went to a different school and it was like we'd go here and there.
Guest:And I tried to go back recently and it was just sort of not, not that I'm against it, but it's just not something I felt like doing regularly.
Marc:But when you believed in God?
Marc:It didn't matter, inner light.
Marc:Sure, inner light and stuff like that.
Guest:I think I'm more like lately, as I get older, more believing in God or something.
Marc:How's that going with Kurt?
Guest:Well, he's one of the reasons.
Guest:I'm like, I don't know how I ended up meeting this person that makes me feel so good.
Guest:It feels like I went through so much shit to get there.
Marc:But he will talk you out of God.
Guest:No, he's, I mean, he was brought up.
Marc:I know.
Guest:So religious, but I don't feel like he would talk you out of God even.
Guest:I think he believes in God more than me.
Marc:Does he?
Guest:Yeah, for sure.
Marc:This is a new Kurt.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I thought he was the skeptic.
Guest:I mean, he's a skeptic of all, you know?
Marc:Of all things.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, he, you know.
Marc:Well, let's talk about like, so the election happens and you just felt like you needed to go sit with...
Marc:Quakers?
Guest:Well, I just wanted a place to be quiet.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I just wanted to like try to find some peace or whatever.
Guest:You were terrified?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was really triggered.
Guest:I had a lot of, you know, I have a history of sexual assault and stuff like that, and it was just really a lot.
Guest:I mean, the election was like really, I mean, I was like PTSD.
Marc:I mean, nuts.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I felt that.
Marc:I don't have a history of sexual assault, but I certainly felt like how many groups of people down are the Jews that get on the train thing?
Guest:I know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:but you know it that's so selfish whatever yeah it's just all terrifying everything's very and it was just like it's just it was like a confused i don't know it was like what the hell is happening did it feel comforting did it feel like comforting it felt really good to be there and stuff and and everything but i went to the quaker school until fifth grade yeah and then uh in fifth grade we moved over to public school me and my twin brother my older brother had already gone
Guest:And public school, I just had, I mean, I had learning disabilities, so it was a little bit more difficult for me in public school.
Marc:How did that manifest itself?
Marc:This is ADD?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I just, sometimes I'm looking back, Mark, though, now, and I'm thinking about all the things my parents had been wrong with me, and I'm going, I don't know that there was really anything wrong with me.
Marc:But they were concerned?
Marc:Were they...
Guest:Yeah, I mean, you know, when I was in kindergarten, I have a twin brother, and I was, you know, bigger than him.
Marc:Not identical.
Guest:Well, our penises are a little different, so they can't be identical.
Marc:Are they?
Marc:Well, he's circumcised, you're not?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Good for you.
Guest:I'm completely uncircumcised, uncut.
Guest:I have to deal with famunda cheese all the time.
Marc:Oh, you do?
Marc:Wow, weird.
Guest:So in kindergarten, my brother had learning disabilities, so they held both, they had a choice to either hold both of us back or just max.
Guest:And so they were like, we're not gonna put our son through that, where it's like his sisters, twin sisters.
Guest:So they held us both back, and then in second grade, I was having trouble reading.
Marc:Like dyslexic kind of deal?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I think my parents didn't teach me to read.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:I think they thought the school was going to, and then the school was like, I think your parents are supposed to help with this.
Marc:Are they?
Marc:I can't remember who taught me to read.
Guest:Yeah, whatever.
Guest:I figured it out eventually.
Guest:You're okay with it now?
Marc:A little bit.
Guest:I can read.
Guest:Now that Twitter's expanded their characters, not as much, but...
Marc:So when does a juvenile delinquency start?
Guest:Okay, so we go to the public school, and then all of a sudden I'm just kind of hanging out with not good people.
Guest:I just found myself with people.
Marc:But what kind of person were you?
Marc:Were you shy?
Marc:No, I was upset.
Guest:What am I?
Marc:You're kind of, it seems like you're, you know, you're take charge kind of person.
Guest:Well, I had, you know, I kind of had to be, so.
Marc:You did?
Guest:I learned, yeah, I learned young because, okay, so I had a lot of problems, like I was born breech, right?
Guest:So I was born, my brother was born at, we were born at midnight, so he was July 20th, I'm July 19th.
Guest:And I kicked him out of the womb.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, so your born breacher, your feet came out first?
Guest:So I came out first.
Guest:I'm in an incubator.
Guest:I don't know how much that affected my... But I had a lot of problems with tactile.
Guest:I didn't like... Kind of signs of... I was on the spectrum of autism.
Guest:So I didn't like to be touched or held.
Guest:And I wouldn't breastfeed and stuff.
Guest:But my mom said that I would really squish in with my brother.
Marc:Like I would let him... Oh, because that was the only thing you were close to?
Marc:Yeah, it was my brother.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So...
Guest:Then I had problems, so my socks would really bother.
Guest:There was a lot of issues.
Guest:I was always upset.
Guest:My feet would hurt.
Guest:If the seam wasn't in the right spot, it would ruin my day.
Guest:I just couldn't.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, it was a constant fight.
Guest:It was chaotic.
Guest:We were always late to school.
Guest:Everyone in my family has ADD, so it's just an explosion at all times.
Marc:But that sounds like more OCD-ish.
Guest:Maybe, yeah.
Guest:I think I am thinking more on the lines of OCD because I am messy, so I always think I'm not, but then...
Guest:I can't go to sleep because I'm all of a sudden panicking every night about some fucking weird thing I said that's not even a thing.
Guest:That feels OCD-ish.
Marc:It sounds like it's just a scramble for control.
Guest:Scramble for control or a way to punish myself or something.
Marc:That's consistent.
Marc:You can always rely on that.
Marc:I'm an asshole.
Guest:It's easier because all these things that end up happening, which I'll tell you, to get through them, I just blame myself because it was too much to
Guest:to admit that like all the grown-ups in my life let me down that hard was like a lot scarier.
Guest:So up until very recently, I really blamed myself.
Guest:I just thought I was like a rotten piece of shit just wandering around.
Marc:Oh, so you worked through it some of it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, let's go back.
Marc:So the juvenile, the people you end up hanging out with.
Guest:Right, so I'm hanging out with people.
Guest:We're like smoking cigarettes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We're being bad.
Marc:15, you're like 15?
Marc:13.
Guest:13.
Marc:Yeah, 13.
Marc:Just like bad, grimy, edgy kids?
Guest:I just wasn't, yeah, and I wasn't,
Guest:It wasn't easy for me to like get good, great.
Guest:Like it wasn't easy for me to get that sort of reinforcement.
Guest:So I guess I just went the other direction.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I don't know if I did it on purpose.
Marc:The bad girls and boys.
Marc:Right.
Guest:But then so then when I was 13, we went to Mexico.
Guest:My family, my mom and I got in a car accident.
Guest:I was doing I was a swimmer at first for a while.
Guest:I was on the swim team.
Guest:I was going to train for the Junior Olympics and smoke.
Guest:I wasn't smoking yet.
Guest:So I was gonna train for the Junior Olympics, and then on the way to check out, it was my neighbor was driving, her kid, another neighbor, and then my mom was in the front seat and I was in the middle and the back, and we got, it was my mom was going to see the program, I was gonna have to go in the morning and at night.
Marc:Going to a swim meet.
Guest:Yeah, it was going to be like a swim practice where they train you for the Olympics or for the JOs.
Guest:And then so on the way we get, there's a drunk driver, a woman in a minivan who just comes over into our lane and just head on collision.
Guest:Just crashes into us.
Guest:They had to get the jaws of life to get the Marsha, my neighbor out.
Guest:My mom hurt her chest.
Guest:She was like in a neck brace and I broke my foot.
Guest:And the kid next to me like cut his eye open and went to the hospital.
Guest:His eyelid just was hanging down.
Guest:It was very, he had no clue that was happening to it.
Guest:It was so gross.
Marc:That's one of the things you remember in your mind.
Guest:I remember the shock and feeling very euphoric and giggling.
Guest:I couldn't stop laughing.
Marc:Because you were just- I couldn't believe what just happened.
Guest:And I remember they were cutting my sock off because of my foot.
Guest:And it was my older brother's sock.
Guest:And I went, oh no, my brother's going to kill me.
Guest:The seam.
Guest:He's not going to get- Yeah, the seam!
Guest:At that point, I'd gone to occupational therapy, which cured me of my socks seam issues.
Guest:Do you know what they fucking did to me at this occupational therapy?
Guest:Because of my... It sounds like I got molested.
Guest:I mean, I did, but not from them.
Guest:But it sounds like so molesty when I tell people now.
Guest:I went and saw this woman and she ran... Because I was so sensitive to certain touch and fabric and stuff like that, she took a large...
Guest:like vibrating, furry, like almost like a car buffer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Plugged it into the wall and just rubbed it all over my body.
Guest:And then, which, I mean, it really does that until I came and, and that's how it went away.
Guest:And then, but my mom would, she had to take a scrub.
Guest:I can only come.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When I'm being buffed like a fucking car.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So then my mom would have to take surgical brushes and scratch my skin every day to kind of desensitize me.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, which really hurts on your clit.
Marc:And it also seems inappropriate.
Marc:It's so inappropriate.
Guest:Come on, mom, stop trying to bang me.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So that helped me with that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm in the car accident and now it's like the time where it's like it's gonna be hard to start getting back into swimming.
Guest:Because I didn't like working hard but I was naturally.
Marc:How bad was the foot?
Marc:Bad?
Guest:I broke my fifth metatarsal and I was in a cast for a little while and then I remember some kid bullied me and like stepped on my foot and I had to keep my cast on for longer.
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:Who was that guy?
Guest:Little fucker.
Guest:His name was Mike.
Marc:Oh really?
Guest:I remember his last name.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:But I'm not gonna say it.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:But whatever, who cares?
Marc:He was someone you went to school with?
Guest:Yeah, he was just some kid who gave the shit.
Guest:He probably had a crush on me or something.
Marc:A dick?
Marc:So now you got a broken foot.
Guest:So I had a broken foot.
Guest:And it was like, I'm in seventh grade.
Guest:I'm 12.
Guest:I'm like, what am I going to do?
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I just sort of, I just, that's the turn.
Guest:I just started smoking cigarettes, started getting boyfriends.
Guest:Like I was just.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what happens?
Marc:What about Mexico?
Marc:So we get money.
Guest:We get money from the settlement from this car accident.
Marc:For your mom's neck?
Guest:Right, for me and my mom for being in this accident with this drunk lady.
Guest:And then we take that and we go to Club Med with the family.
Guest:We go to Huatuco, Mexico.
Marc:That's a nice thing to do with the settlement.
Marc:Yeah, pretty cool.
Marc:All five years?
Guest:All five of us.
Guest:So then...
Guest:I'm just, I don't know what my parents were thinking, but they did just let me.
Guest:I just was by myself a lot in Mexico.
Guest:I think they thought someone was watching.
Guest:I was 13.
Guest:I think they thought someone was watching kids, but nobody was.
Guest:So I took an archery class and there was an instructor there who was, I think he was 26 is what I recall.
Guest:I just turned 13.
Guest:So I'm hanging out with him afterwards.
Guest:He's like, oh, I'll walk you back up to your place.
Guest:And I remember he thinking we're going to my spot and he walked me up to his place.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And we go into his place and I'm like, oh, and he's like, he puts on, he put on Journey Open Arms.
Guest:So that song is fucked for me.
Guest:But and then he.
Marc:It's not a big loss.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:But I wanted to love it.
Guest:My favorite.
Guest:So then and then he starts like massaging me and stuff.
Guest:And I'm so uncomfortable.
Guest:And I'm like, I have to go.
Guest:And he's like, you're going to just go without kissing me.
Guest:And I had to like make out with this old guy to leave.
Guest:Like to me, like 26 when you're 13 is like the oldest person you've ever seen in your life.
Marc:Yeah, of course.
Marc:Crazy.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So then I end up being able.
Marc:Have you made out before?
Marc:Yeah, I had made out with... But just like 13-year-old making out, like, you know, like, what is that game, Minute in the Closet or whatever, and like trying to French kiss for the first time.
Marc:Well, it's usually seven minutes, but I guess some people... Oh, yeah, no, I'm quick.
Marc:Come a little quicker.
Marc:Yeah, a little quick.
Marc:But no, so, but that doesn't matter, obviously.
Marc:But I was just wondering, this wasn't the first time...
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Guest:It wasn't the first time I kissed.
Guest:I had like a boyfriend, this kid Steve that was like my, you know, we held hands in the hallway or whatever.
Marc:But it was still creepy and the guy was old and you were a kid.
Guest:Yeah, it was so, I was so scared.
Guest:And so then I left.
Guest:He didn't make me like have sex with him or anything.
Guest:So I leave and then I go to the head of the...
Guest:like kids program or whatever and i'm like this guy did this and then i just made sure i remember i think first before i did anything i went down i saw him like talking to people doing the archery instruction this guy alex and i just started screaming at him i went you're a fucking pedophile you're fucking gross like i was so mad i couldn't believe this had happened yeah screaming at him and uh and he's like all like you need to get out of here and then i told but that's when i started drinking on that trip we were drinking
Guest:And then I told the guy, and then I think he ended up getting fired.
Guest:But my parents didn't know any of this happened.
Marc:You didn't tell them?
Guest:No, I don't know why I didn't feel comfortable telling my parents stuff, but I didn't.
Guest:I never told them stuff.
Marc:So there was a whole kids program.
Guest:Yeah, and I think they just thought we were covered or something.
Guest:But I remember I fell asleep in some kid's house, and they were mad at me.
Marc:How long were you at Club Med, a year?
Guest:I mean, it could have just been like four or five days.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I was just a young, I think I was pretty, I don't know what I looked like then.
Guest:Maybe the middle handsome brother.
Guest:I always thought I looked like a boy and stuff, but I'm kind of learning that I never did.
Marc:So you called the guy out, you got him in trouble.
Marc:Called him out, got him in trouble.
Marc:You spoke up for yourself.
Guest:I mean, I always have.
Guest:So then, go back to school.
Guest:And that wasn't, I didn't really feel that much trauma from that.
Guest:I just remembered that one recently.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, it's not like I had repressed it, but
Guest:I just have so many of these sort of things I got into because I wasn't really being watched so yeah I was very mature for my age I got my period when I was 11 like I was just like right I ran into a girl from middle school at the mall and she's like oh my god um I was just talking to my mom about you like we saw you on something and she was talking about how crazy you were and I really go like whenever someone calls me crazy I'm like tell me what type of crazy yeah
Guest:And she was like, boy crazy.
Guest:My mom used to be so nervous because you were so into boys.
Guest:And I wasn't there yet or whatever.
Guest:I was just like develop faster.
Marc:Like seventh grade.
Marc:I don't know if that's when it normally starts, but I remember my seventh grade year was a little crazy.
Marc:Like everyone was making out.
Marc:That was the first time I felt boobs.
Marc:Like the first time that I, yeah.
Guest:How'd it feel?
Marc:I didn't know what to do with them, but I held them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There isn't like a real... You know, it's just sort of like... You could do a lot of things with them, honestly.
Marc:Sure, but when you're in seventh grade, you just like... Yeah, you just put your hand on.
Marc:On it and maybe squeeze it a little.
Marc:Is that it?
Marc:We did it.
Guest:Push them together a little.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I didn't do that.
Marc:Smush them.
Marc:I didn't do that because there was so much work.
Marc:You had to work your way.
Marc:There was working your hand.
Marc:It took like an hour to work your hand into the bra because you did... And you were nervous.
Marc:At every juncture, you're like...
Marc:Your hands, the sweat, it's just slipping off the body.
Marc:Yeah, I guess that's when it happens in junior high.
Guest:I had my friend that I started hanging out with who was kind of the bad girl.
Guest:She was already having sex with her boyfriend.
Marc:At 13.
Guest:At 13.
Guest:She started having sex with him before she got her period.
Marc:I remember being like, this is weird.
Marc:How old was her boyfriend?
Guest:He was only a year older, but he was the Sicilian kid who looked like he was 45 years old.
Guest:I mean, he had like back and neck hair.
Guest:You're like, what the hell?
Guest:So it just looked so crazy.
Guest:But so I was hanging out with these people where like sex was kind of normal.
Guest:And my mom is kind of masculine.
Guest:Like she...
Guest:I wasn't really tall.
Guest:I didn't know how to dress feminine or anything, so I kind of just started dressing slutty because that's what my friends were doing.
Guest:I was just like a little baby slut.
Guest:I remember my high school had to change their dress code because of me and my friends.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:That's got to stop.
Guest:Yeah, they're like, if we can see your nipple jewelry, there's problems.
Guest:Um, but so I go to, I'm in public school and I'm not, I'm kind of struggling.
Guest:I'm not, I'm not doing well in school.
Guest:I'm starting to smoke cigarettes and no drugs.
Guest:I smoked weed and drinking 13 and I was drinking.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That started after club med.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I started drinking in club med.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then once I like broke the seal, I was like, all right.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:We're in, you know, just hanging out with the wrong kids.
Guest:And then,
Guest:I didn't want to keep going to public school.
Guest:So my parents started looking at other schools for me and they ended up sending me to the school in Philly and Chestnut Hill.
Guest:That's for juvenile delinquents as an alternative school.
Guest:So it's either for juvenile delinquents or people.
Marc:Had you been getting in trouble?
Guest:I wasn't like, honestly, when I look back, like, like I get so mad at my parents cause I'm like, why didn't you just tell me to not hang out with those kids?
Guest:Because if I had been given any moment of discipline,
Guest:Yeah, I would have.
Guest:Every time they discipline me, I listen to them.
Guest:And it's like my parents have this idea in their head.
Guest:And my dad was working.
Guest:My mom wanted me to like her so much that she never disciplined me.
Guest:And then I got like diddled left and right.
Guest:Like, it's crazy the amount of times I had weird shit happen where I'm like, why weren't you watching me?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And also because because when there's no discipline and there's no boundaries, you don't like you kind of are looking to connect with, you know, I was looking for parents.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I was like where like every time I would sit on a plane next to someone, I would be like, you know, up until recently, I realized I think that predatory people feel that.
Guest:Yeah, they can tell when you're not being watched.
Guest:They can really tell when you're, and I was sweet.
Guest:I was sweet and I was misunderstood, you know, because I would get upset.
Marc:So you go to the delinquent school?
Guest:So I ended up going to this delinquent school and it also had a good art program and it was also for people with like, you know, there was a girl that thought she was a horse that galloped down the hall.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It wasn't just, it was like bullies and the bullied, kind of.
Guest:And so then I'm there and I'm at this crossroads.
Guest:I'm like, do I lean into hanging out with the special needs kids or the true criminals?
Guest:So then I started hanging out with kids that were like really bad.
Guest:And not to say, my friend from the public school, too, we got into a lot of trouble one summer.
Guest:I was hanging out with gang members.
Guest:I mean, I was sneaking out.
Guest:I was breaking into houses with people.
Guest:One guy that I, when I was 14, my friend and I met this guy at an outdoor mall, the Roosevelt Mall.
Guest:These guys were, you know, we had pagers back then.
Guest:They'd give us their pager number.
Guest:We would lie and say, you know, we're 14, we'd say we were 16 or something.
Guest:Which is still gross, and they were like 20, I don't know.
Guest:And so then we would sneak out to go meet them, and
Guest:I remember going we went to this one house and we went through the window and then we're like in the pool and like smoking weed and drinking with them drinking 40s and stuff and then we left through the window too and I'm just like naive like I'm like what why are we going through the window and like none of us live here like oh we just fucking like broke into this house had no clue and then I'm like kissing this one guy and you know I was like
Guest:I was prudish I was like I started having sex when I was 14 but I didn't want to like I wasn't ready to have like it wasn't yeah it was more of a peer pressure situation for me a lot of the times which was it with a boyfriend or yeah but like I think I had already had I already had sex when I was making out with this gang member dude I think I'd already had sex 14 is when you started yeah young on a waterbed northeast Philly
Marc:You know that guy?
Marc:You still know the guy?
Guest:He was in prison last I saw him.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:But you didn't want him?
Guest:Not for fucking me.
Marc:Was he older?
Guest:He was 16.
Guest:I was 14.
Guest:He was a real fucking piece of shit.
Guest:It really shaped a lot of my... Why?
Marc:How so?
Guest:Well, he was just so nasty to me, and I was so in love with him because I was too young for even those emotions.
Guest:It's just too much to go through.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he just treated me bad.
Guest:He would like talk shit on me.
Guest:He was nasty, he was mean.
Guest:He was a juvenile delinquent.
Guest:He was gross.
Guest:He was like a shitty dude.
Guest:I don't know if he's in jail now, but he was in jail for a while, before he got into heroin and stuff.
Guest:Most of the people from my, my high school was a fucking shit show.
Guest:And most of the people from there, I feel like a true survivor, most of the people from there ended up like dead in prison or like working at a Verizon kiosk.
Guest:There's like a few success stories, but it was a small school and it was not, they didn't, I didn't have to read.
Guest:And I don't think like, I feel like I was completely uneducated.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, yeah, because like if no one teaches you to prioritize that shit, you don't, you know what I mean?
Marc:And you're just going to want to hang out with people that make you feel like you're somebody.
Guest:Or feel something.
Guest:It's like, it was exciting, you know, to go do all this stuff.
Guest:So anyway, so I'm making out with this guy.
Guest:We walked, get out of the window.
Guest:The pool, yeah.
Guest:We start, I'm making out with this guy.
Guest:They drop us off at the house.
Guest:Luckily, I don't have to like do anything.
Guest:We sneak back into my friend's house.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Then it comes out that the guy I had made out with was wanted for homicide.
Guest:Get the fucking out of here.
Guest:Like, this is the shit that I was just like going to the mall and wandering into.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:When I was 16, 15 or 16, there was this art teacher who this like white guy with dreads and his wife had dreads and she was my advisor.
Guest:And he had actually gone to the school.
Guest:So he was like a. Alumni.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Of this fucking juvenile delinquent school.
Guest:So he, they pretty much groomed me and a few other people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we would go over to their house.
Guest:Like his wife called my mom and was like, I'm going to tutor Annie.
Guest:And so I would go over to their house.
Guest:They would buy me whatever alcohol I wanted, weed.
Guest:And then she would just like write a paper for me.
Guest:And then, you know, they didn't want me to be going home drunk.
Guest:So then they convinced my mom that it would be a good idea for me to start sleeping over at their house to sort of curb the edge of me leaving to go to college later.
Guest:That this would be a good positive thing for me.
Guest:and your mom bought it my mom fucking bought it and you're having a good time so i think it's cool and i have this one friend john this guy friend in school who he's like this is so weird you guys are going over there this is not good yeah because there'd be a bunch of us but my friend me and my best friend at the time would would sleep over there my parents like gave a futon from our house for it makes me so sick when i think about it one night nobody else was there and it was just me yeah and the two of them
Guest:No, she was gone too, it was just him.
Guest:So it was just the two of us in the house.
Guest:And I woke up in the middle of the night and he was watching me sleep, like laying next to me with his face on his fist, just staring at me, propped up staring at me.
Guest:And you were 16?
Guest:Yeah, 15 or 16, I can't remember.
Guest:And then I go, I guess 16, because he would probably have gotten in a lot more trouble if I was 15.
Guest:Unfortunately, Pennsylvania sucks with their laws.
Guest:So I'm like, that's so fucking weird, that's so creepy.
Guest:I'm like, what are you doing?
Guest:And then he just kind of laughs and goes in the other room.
Guest:So then the next day he's like, he's my art teacher.
Guest:He's like, oh, I want to, can I draw you nude?
Marc:And this is at the house?
Guest:This is at the house.
Guest:So this is just the two of us.
Guest:And I like want to say no, but I keep like, I don't know.
Guest:I just don't want to, I felt like it would be accusing him of something if I had said no.
Guest:And I didn't know what was going to happen.
Guest:So I remember leaving my socks on because I was like, that was my protest in my head.
Guest:I was like, then I won't be fully nude or whatever.
Guest:And then he comes out of the shower or something and he's like, it's better if I'm nude too.
Guest:The drawing's better.
Guest:And at this point, there's no way I'm going to be able to say a word.
Guest:I'm like complete shock.
Guest:Can't talk.
Guest:I'm just like this kid, like, how am I in this fucked up situation?
Guest:And then, and just trying to in my head be like, this is not what's happening.
Guest:There's like gotta be another like excuse for what's going on.
Guest:And then he sat on the back of my legs and he jerked off on me.
Guest:And I like, like wet in my knee pit.
Guest:And then I had to like, I mean, it's like, so I usually tell it funnier, but I like, it's just so crazy.
Guest:I can't even believe it.
Guest:And I remember like getting up and I didn't even wipe it off.
Guest:I just pulled my pants up cause I didn't even want to like do anything.
Guest:And then I had to go, I was working at a pottery place and I had to go to work.
Guest:So I go to work, and I tell my manager what happened, and he's like this 19-year-old dude, he's like, that's child molestation, that's crazy.
Guest:And I'm like, yeah, I don't know what to think about it.
Guest:And then I call my best friend, who had also used to stay there with me, and she goes,
Guest:Oh, he's gotten cheeky with me before.
Guest:Just tell him to fuck off or something.
Guest:I'm like, cheeky?
Guest:What the fuck are you talking about?
Guest:I don't think I told her about the jizz part because I was really ashamed of that.
Guest:But I was like, he just did some weird shit.
Guest:And she was like, don't even worry about it.
Guest:So then I'm like, what?
Guest:So I'm like, am I making this up?
Guest:And then I go to that friend John and he's like, no, dude, this is crazy.
Guest:I knew fucking some shit was going on.
Guest:He's like, that's insane.
Guest:So then I was like, all right.
Guest:I'm like, it can't just be me.
Guest:So I go around, I talk to a bunch of girls.
Guest:And my graduating class was 17 kids, so there's not that many people to school.
Marc:Small school, yeah.
Guest:So I go around, I found a girl that was having a full-on affair with him.
Guest:I found a girl that he had had sex with when he was supposed to be tutoring her in art.
Guest:And a girl that he had exposed himself to pulled his bone around and been like, look what you do to me.
Guest:and then maybe a couple more, but the only one that was willing to go forward with me was the girl that he exposed himself to.
Guest:So, and she didn't have a very good reputation for being honest, which sucked.
Guest:I completely believed her story, but it wasn't like my most credible.
Marc:You were just to go forward with the school?
Guest:Yeah, so then I go to one of the art teachers, the other art teacher.
Guest:Now this art teacher that had done this had gotten fired for throwing something at another teacher.
Guest:Like a day before this happened.
Guest:Like right when this was, so he wasn't really, like technically I guess he wasn't employed.
Marc:A day before it happened with you?
Guest:Yeah, like that week or something he had gotten fired.
Marc:I mean he's like crazy.
Guest:So then, so he wasn't at the school anymore.
Guest:So I went to his mentor and this art teacher who I used to really kind of look up to as a father.
Guest:And I told him what happened with this other girl.
Guest:And he, I remember he said, uh, he goes, you know, I'm torn because half of me, I want to go kick his fucking ass.
Guest:Like I want to go fucking scream at him for doing this.
Guest:And then the other half, I wasn't there, so I don't know what happened.
Guest:And I'm like, I mean, I'm fucking telling you what benefit do I get?
Guest:There's no literally, I'm not like telling people about this.
Guest:I'm not going around to the other students.
Guest:I don't want attention for this.
Guest:I just want a predator to be stopped.
Guest:I like, I'm like, I already got gotten.
Guest:I just don't want it to keep, like, I want to stop the, you know, the cycle.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I haven't told my parents about it yet.
Guest:So then the art teacher takes me to my advisor who she's like, I knew something bad was happening.
Marc:What about the wife?
Guest:The wife had left after he got fired.
Marc:No shit.
Guest:So then my advisor's like, I knew this was happening.
Guest:My other advisor was like, I knew something was happening.
Guest:And I'm like...
Guest:struggling with that line too, where I'm like, you knew something was happening, but yet nobody fucking did anything.
Guest:Nobody wanted to get their hands dirty or do anything to stop this thing.
Guest:So I was like, I guess it's me that's gonna do it.
Guest:So then she makes me go to the principal.
Guest:This is all within two hours.
Guest:So then I gotta go to the principal, tell him this story.
Guest:It's a humiliating story.
Guest:Um, so I was like so embarrassed.
Guest:I was so ashamed.
Guest:And then telling the principal and the principal's like the art teacher was still, even though he wasn't employed as a teacher, he was still in charge of the glass blowing studio.
Guest:So he's like, all right, I got to call.
Guest:I got to like ban him from the, from the campus or whatever.
Guest:And we're going to, you're gonna have to call the police.
Um,
Guest:So then I got to call my parents, tell them everything that's going on.
Guest:I got to go into the police.
Guest:By the time I get home from school, this stupid fucking principal had told Greg, the teacher, everything I said about him, who it was that said it, like a fucking lunatic.
Guest:I'm a kid, like no protection from anyone.
Guest:So then by the time I get home, I have all these messages on my answering machine from his wife being like, you fucking liar, you stupid bitch.
Guest:Why would you do this to us?
Guest:You're a fucking bit.
Guest:Like all of this stuff where I'm like, Jesus.
Guest:So then I tell my parents and before I told him, I tried to go back to the house before I told anyone.
Guest:I tried going back to the house once with my friend and with them.
Guest:And Greg, the teacher had said something to me.
Guest:He'd insulted me somehow.
Guest:Like he said, called me something.
Guest:So I can't remember.
Guest:I wish I could remember what the word was, but I remember not knowing what the day after.
Guest:yeah it's like it's like really soon after that yeah and he said something nasty to me and i'm like you're gonna fucking do that to me and then also make me feel like a piece of shit like so then i uh he said something and i got so like offended that he would dare speak to me and i just was like get the fuck away from me i'm never gonna fucking talk to you again like you're a sick fucking pedophile you're fucking gross and so he goes off into the room so i'm not gonna keep yelling at him
Guest:And my friend's like, oh, come on.
Guest:I'm like, you know why I'm mad.
Guest:He's a fucking predator, dude.
Guest:He's sick.
Guest:That's like a child molester.
Guest:And she's like, come on, Annie.
Guest:And then so my dad picks me up.
Guest:I go home.
Guest:And then my mom at one point, she had a meeting with his wife, Debbie, to discuss how to get me and Greg back together again.
Guest:Oh, they had such a good bond.
Guest:We don't want them to be upset.
Guest:So my mom went on a meeting with this woman to try to work it out.
Guest:And then she's like, don't you think you and Greg can work it out?
Guest:After all the shit hit the fan?
Guest:This is before I had told her what happened.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:But I think when your daughter is sleeping over at a grown up's house and all of a sudden she's like, I don't ever want to see this man again.
Guest:You should know.
Guest:You can kind of like jump to some conclusions.
Guest:So then when I did come out with it, she was like, yeah, I thought maybe something was going.
Guest:Everyone like who thought something was going on.
Guest:I'm like, what the fuck?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, Jesus Christ.
Guest:Why did I have to do everything?
Guest:I mean, it's insane.
Guest:I'm like a kid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So then we go to court.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And his lawyer ends up being my fucking this girl I played softball with dad.
Guest:i'm like can anyone have my back i mean it's crazy that was very upsetting but i guess he told my parents that he thought he could do a better job for me which is fucking bullshit yeah who could the the lawyer it's like why don't you this is not appropriate why don't you fucking not be his lawyer yeah is that crazy like yeah well that you knew his daughter and that it's all yeah you came to every softball game of mine and this is cool with you yeah
Guest:So we get to court and he fucking cut his dreads off the teacher.
Guest:And I remember being like so pissed, but now I'm like, sick.
Guest:Got rid of one more white guy with dreads.
Guest:If I had to get jizzed on as a kid for that, it's totally worth it.
Guest:But so we ended up doing a plea deal because of the way Pennsylvania goes.
Guest:It's like because he didn't penetrate.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I would have maybe lost or something.
Guest:So he pled guilty, and he got three years consecutive, or three years simultaneous probation for both of us.
Guest:And I think he wasn't allowed to teach anymore, but then he just became a college professor, I think.
Guest:And he's just a successful artist in Philadelphia now.
Marc:He still is?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And did anyone else come with you on the case?
Guest:I do.
Guest:I blacked out a lot of it, honestly.
Guest:I'm really trying to go back.
Guest:I've been asking my parents a lot of questions and just asking people what happened.
Guest:But I do believe my advisor, Stacy, came with me.
Guest:And I think someone from the rape crisis center.
Marc:No other girl came forward?
Guest:Just the one girl that he had exposed himself to.
Marc:Oh, she was in the court too?
Guest:Yeah, she was in court too.
Guest:And I don't know if this affected her as much, but... Has anyone come forward in years after?
Guest:There's no record of it anywhere.
Guest:I mean, it's got to be there's a record of it somewhere, but it's not on... Sure, in the court.
Guest:It's before the internet, so there's not... If you Google him, you just look at it.
Marc:What did you say about rape crisis?
Guest:I had gone to the rape crisis center.
Guest:The cops sent me to the rape crisis center, and I met with them once.
Guest:And I remember reading Lolita in the fucking rape crisis center.
Marc:It was just there?
Marc:No, I brought it.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:I was like, how molested is that to be like...
Guest:I draw cartoons.
Guest:I want to draw a cartoon of me in the Rape Crisis Center reading Lolita.
Marc:So how did this affect the years right after?
Marc:What ultimately happened?
Marc:You said that this happened.
Guest:It was so traumatizing because the... No one had your back.
Guest:No one had my back.
Guest:Not even your parents.
Guest:That girlfriend, I mean, they drove me to court and everything, but everyone seemed just like...
Guest:upset that i was making like not that nothing happened but like oh we wish we weren't dealing with this it was just so fucked up it was just a really fucked up situation everyone in my school was kind of like calling me a liar and like i didn't have support my best friend told everyone what happened said i was lying about it her mom was going to testify as a character witness against me why do why would they say you were lying i don't know i when i speculate i think that maybe she was having an affair with him or something oh
Guest:I don't know because I don't, I just can't, I can't understand why you would so, it was just like this level of denial on everyone's part.
Guest:And the school was probably so scared that I was going to like come after them.
Guest:But I remember the cops told me that I go, well, you should also check in with my friend because she said he had done something.
Guest:They go, oh, we talked to her.
Guest:She said that you're, she told us that you're lying, that there's nothing true about what you said.
Guest:So then I come into school the next day and the only way you get kicked out of this juvenile delinquent school is if you hit someone or you sell drugs.
Guest:So I knew I couldn't hit her or anything, and I was a Quaker, it wasn't what I want, but I was so, I couldn't believe it.
Guest:Like, how could you do this to me?
Guest:It was so hard to get there, and then you're gonna tell them I'm fucking lying?
Guest:You're supposed to be my best friend.
Guest:You know what happened.
Guest:So I go into her class, she was in a Spanish class, and I go, I start pounding, and she hated the word cunt.
Guest:So I start pounding my fist on the desk in front of her and just going, you're a fucking cunt.
Guest:You're going to tell the cops I'm a liar.
Guest:You owe me a fucking apology.
Guest:She's like, I don't owe you anything, bitch, or whatever.
Guest:I get pulled out of the class, reprimanded, treated like a fucking monster because of this girl.
Guest:It's like the craziest shit in the world to me.
Guest:And then I just remember them like yelling at me.
Guest:I'm going like, are you guys crazy?
Guest:Do you have any clue what's going on?
Guest:Or any of your responsibility in it?
Guest:I go to court.
Guest:He gets the three years.
Guest:I was like, they let me graduate early.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I wonder why.
Marc:But you stayed at the school.
Guest:No, I graduated that year when I was 16.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, we had a small graduation ceremony.
Guest:I remember my teacher, the teachers would give you each, like your advisors would give you a little speech about you.
Guest:And my advisor was like, you know, she'll stand up against things even if she loses things out of it.
Guest:You know, like she said something about it.
Guest:So that was nice.
Guest:She's a fighter.
Guest:Yeah, I'm like, can someone just fucking actually help me?
Guest:So there was that, but then I went back.
Guest:I went on to go to Santa Fe and go to college and everything.
Marc:How'd you pick Santa Fe?
Guest:I wanted to, I thought I wanted, because I graduated when I was 16, I took a year off.
Guest:What'd you do?
Guest:First I went to Hawaii and I did this dolphin.
Guest:There was this place called the Marine Mammal Lab in Oahu.
Guest:and in honolulu and i trained dolphins for like a month it was like a program you paid for or something but it was nice yeah it was neat it was cool i mean i was very i was 17 everyone else was older so it wasn't i didn't really fit in with the crew as much but it was fun to train dolphins it was really cool it was interesting yeah i ended up working with autistic kids later and a lot of the behavior management stuff was very similar it was like very like uh interesting to have like a background with with um
Guest:with behavior modification, but with- Sure.
Marc:You probably learned some new tricks too.
Guest:Yeah, and I learned how to have a really big dick.
Guest:Male dolphins have huge dicks.
Marc:They do.
Guest:Then I did a program where I went to Central America and I did service work there.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Marc:With a group of kids.
Marc:Was that a Quaker thing?
Guest:Mm-mm.
Guest:No, that was just like a- You just wanted to do that?
Marc:Yeah, I wanted to travel.
Guest:I wanted to do something good.
Guest:You know, I'd just been through all this shit.
Guest:I just like wanted to like- And I felt rotten.
Guest:I felt like that was all my fault.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I felt like I was just like a piece of shit.
Guest:And you couldn't trust anybody.
Guest:I just felt like so gross.
Guest:Even though like I knew, I still also had a confidence, but it was like-
Guest:It's just I had to, like, jump on the grenade for myself.
Guest:So I took that summer when I came back from the service work and I started working with kids with special needs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I was a head counselor at an Easter Seals camp and I, like, had a lot of fun.
Guest:I really enjoyed it.
Guest:I worked with kids with, like, cerebral palsy and spina bifida.
Marc:Wow, you really did a lot of service work.
Guest:Yeah, it was fun.
Marc:I mean, I liked it.
Guest:It was fun.
Guest:And it was a really fun job.
Guest:And so I wanted to, like, do something.
Guest:I was thinking about maybe becoming a special ed teacher and I draw.
Guest:I like doing art.
Guest:I was like going to do that or art.
Guest:And I wanted to get away from Philadelphia.
Guest:I didn't realize why at the time.
Guest:But looking back, it's like I was so fucking traumatized.
Guest:So I wanted to get as far away from my family.
Guest:I just wanted out.
Guest:So I looked at all these different schools.
Guest:And even though I loved my parents like the most all the time obsessively throughout all of it, I still just needed to get away.
Guest:So...
Guest:I looked at the College of Santa Fe and I liked their art program and they had a teaching program.
Guest:So I was like, I can do what I need to do here.
Guest:I thought the students were really cool.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Santa Fe was a neat town.
Guest:And so I moved there and I did like counseling psychology.
Guest:I mean, I never my mom wrote my papers like I didn't fucking learn much.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I had a great time.
Guest:My teachers were incredible.
Guest:Like I had really good teachers.
Marc:And you were there on and off for eight years.
Guest:Mm-hmm, on and off for eight years.
Guest:I had incompletes for, to be fair, I had incompletes for like two years, and then the college was going out of business, so my art teacher, Susan York, who's fucking amazing, my art professor, she hits me up out of nowhere, and I used to not get along with her, because she had a class at 8.30 in the morning that I would cut, and she would call me, and I'd be like, I was so mad at her, because I'm like, I'm 18 now, I don't have to come to class, which is so crazy, I didn't have a clue, what I was saying, wasting money, and she was like, I just want you there, I just believe in you.
Marc:And so, um, what were you doing?
Marc:Painting or drawing?
Guest:She was, uh, what was she painting?
Marc:Or maybe she was just, what were you doing?
Guest:I didn't have a, I didn't have a medium.
Guest:I draw now a little bit, but, um, my mom's a really good artist and it was just something we would do together.
Guest:She got into art classes and stuff and,
Guest:And I had some really good mentors in high school.
Guest:He taught me how to paint with a medium semen.
Guest:And it's body art.
Guest:But so I go, she messages me and she's like, hey, the college is going out of business.
Guest:I had just moved back to New York.
Guest:I just quit drinking.
Guest:I just started doing comedy.
Marc:You had finished college.
Guest:Well, I thought I had finished.
Guest:I was like, I'll get to it.
Guest:There's a couple papers I have to write, but I was like, I'll get to it.
Guest:So I move on with my life.
Guest:We'll deal with that later.
Guest:I did 90% of the work.
Marc:Does it matter when the college shuts down?
Marc:It mattered to me.
Marc:Because you can never get your degree now from that college?
Guest:You can lie and say you have that degree if you want.
Guest:I'm always like, congratulations, graduates.
Marc:Can't you transfer the credits?
Guest:Yeah, but I fucking hate, school was a goddamn nightmare for me.
Guest:I would panic every night.
Marc:Sure, so you're two incompletes away from graduating?
Guest:I'm two incompletes away from graduating.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:But I don't realize, I'm just like, deal with it later.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like, repress it.
Guest:I mean, I was drinking so heavily, and when I quit drinking, you know, I had been sober maybe three weeks, and I get this email that's like, you have two weeks to finish these.
Guest:And one of them was like, statistics.
Guest:Like, who the fuck remembers statistics?
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so I had to fly back to Santa Fe on a credit card.
Guest:fly back, do all these papers, write all these things, finish it up.
Guest:And then finally I got my degree and then the school goes out of business.
Guest:Then it comes back as another thing, goes out of business again.
Marc:But you got the degree.
Guest:I got the degree.
Guest:Yeah, I needed it for myself.
Guest:It was just like to know that I could finish something.
Marc:Closure.
Marc:You want that hanging over you for the rest of your fucking life.
Guest:Big, exactly.
Marc:So now we're back to where we come full circle here.
Marc:And we talked about you starting out in comedy, but now you're out here.
Marc:When I was working with you, you were dating a skateboard guy.
Guest:Oh, rollerblader?
Marc:Rollerblader, maybe.
Guest:Well, that was a couple years ago.
Guest:I think it was after that.
Guest:I don't think I was dating anyone.
Guest:I was so into comedy.
Guest:I was just so wanted.
Guest:I just wanted to be my...
Guest:career always I never was like I'll try this out it was just a thing I just felt a calling to and it was really like the only thing because I was going to be a special ed teacher I would have burned out on that in a second you can only wipe so many fucking 18 year old boys asses before you're like maybe maybe I don't want to do this every day of my life though it was a pleasure thank you for letting me wipe your assholes you locked in and you just you did it New York style and you just started doing every set you could yeah and I went in and I knew I had uh
Guest:I had kind of befriended some comics and I went to a mic with them and one of them had said, and I don't know if this is good advice or bad advice and people should do whatever they want, but he was like, just try to not hook up with the comics because it's going to be harder to get respect.
Guest:Right.
Guest:and um so i had that in my head right and so but i was drinking so much i was blackout drunk all the time right from age of like 21 to 25 i mean blacked out waking up in terrible situations i had a fucking real bad thing happened to me in new mexico when i was blacked out drunk and um my roommate like found this guy fucking like literally picking me up off the ground and fucking me on the couch and stuff and that was like a whole
Guest:another another where I'm just like I can't drink I can't like uh protect I gotta be able to protect myself nobody's tell the school or well he wasn't he didn't go to the college and this was after the college this was just when I was living in Santa Fe and I you know I I tried to get him to admit it or it was just it was like this I was just yeah and I was fucking fucked up spiral yeah and I was like you know I was getting wasted and fucking people all the time and stuff how much do you think was that a reaction to you know what you'd gone through
Guest:I think everything was that.
Guest:I think my childhood was really hard, too.
Guest:I mean, it was just really rough.
Guest:I was just kind of always like bad or something, you know, like rotten.
Marc:You felt shitty.
Marc:Yeah, I felt shitty.
Marc:And you couldn't stop yourself from doing things that made you feel shitty about yourself.
Guest:Well, I just wanted to break.
Guest:I wanted to black out.
Guest:I didn't want to.
Guest:I wasn't getting wasted to have fun and be drunk.
Guest:I wanted to fucking break.
Guest:I was like, I hated myself.
Guest:I just didn't want to be near myself.
Marc:So what changed?
Marc:I mean, what made you stop?
Guest:I wanted to do comedy really bad.
Guest:And I also, well, it was like, well, I can't trust myself to not get blacked out.
Guest:That's the whole point.
Guest:I have no interest in being like a little drunk.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I can't protect myself there.
Guest:And then I got in a scooter accident.
Guest:I was driving blackout drunk one night.
Guest:I woke up in the morning with my chin split open.
Guest:I had road rash all over my boobs.
Guest:I almost lost a fucking nipple.
Guest:I had cuts all up the front of my arms and hands.
Guest:Down my knees.
Guest:Like the dress I'd been wearing looked like someone had slit my throat.
Guest:So I woke up out of like, I just had these foggy memories of, I knew I'd crashed my scooter.
Guest:There's blood everywhere.
Guest:And I knew, I felt that someone had picked me up that didn't like, I remember it was like someone that didn't usually like me found me and was very nice to me and brought me back to my house.
Marc:Not to the hospital.
Guest:Drove me back.
Guest:No, because I was wasted.
Guest:I was like, please don't take me to the hospital.
Guest:Because I didn't want, I was like, please don't.
Marc:You want DWR or whatever.
Guest:Because I was going to get in trouble.
Guest:So then I wake up and I called my entire family.
Guest:And that's all I remembered was that.
Guest:And then I called my entire family and told them I needed to go to rehab.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I had to call them all in the morning and be like, just kidding.
Guest:I was in a blackout.
Guest:Disregard.
Guest:It was Father's Day, I remember.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was like, you guys, I'm fine.
Guest:Like I was blacked out.
Guest:My parents were like, you needed like an ambulance.
Guest:Like, what are you talking about?
Guest:I was really fucked up.
Guest:So then I go and I get my stitches.
Guest:I got nine stitches in my chin.
Marc:And so you went to walk the next day.
Marc:You got stitches.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like probably I probably could have had a way better scar, too.
Guest:And yeah, it was really like I almost died for sure.
Guest:And I thought it was funny.
Guest:I was trying to laugh it off.
Guest:I was out drinking the next night with wounds all over my face.
Guest:And then I meet this guy the next night.
Guest:I'm petting this puppy at a bar.
Guest:And this guy goes, do you not remember me?
Guest:And I'm like, no.
Guest:And he goes, I found you.
Guest:Yesterday I found you.
Guest:And I was like, oh, he's like, that's how fucking damn, dude.
Guest:He's like, I thought you were drunk, but that's really drunk.
Guest:And he rides a motorcycle and he was like, listen, I understood.
Guest:And so then this girl came by.
Guest:I found out it was this manager of a bar that I would get wasted at.
Guest:So she was usually yelling at me and kicking me out.
Guest:So he's like, so I gave you to her and she drove you home.
Guest:And I knew, like I told her, I was like, listen, you can take her to the hospital, but it's going to be a real shit show for her with the cops if you do that.
Guest:So they ended up dropping me off, which was, I'm glad.
Marc:These are Santa Fe people.
Guest:Yeah, these are just people.
Guest:It's a small town.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I used to go up there.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Everybody knows what's up.
Guest:Yeah, everybody.
Guest:I mean, the cops all knew me, and when I told them later what happened, they were like, you would have got an aggravated DUI for assaulting yourself because you hurt yourself.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:So who knows if that's true, but that's what they said to me.
Guest:So I'm like, thanks.
Guest:I'll never call the cops.
Guest:Way to let me know that I made the right decision not doing the right thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But so I get the stitches and then it's like, I know I need to quit.
Guest:And I know.
Guest:So I'm like, if I move out of Santa Fe, maybe I move to New York.
Marc:What made you want to do comedy?
Guest:I was my dad.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I was always funny.
Guest:Like I was always making my dad laugh.
Marc:And you just, but you saw, you know, no one told you you could do it or anything.
Marc:You're just sort of.
Guest:My college professors always were like, can you just go do standup?
Marc:Oh, so it was on that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I was always like, I kind of had a way of, um,
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I had that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Just interrupting things.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like completely like somehow making it about undermining the leader.
Guest:And then so my and my dad's very funny.
Guest:Very, very funny.
Guest:So it was a lot of like trying to impress him.
Guest:And when he retired and we had this like really bonding.
Marc:Is he still around?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's around.
Guest:I love him.
Marc:He'll probably be listening to this, which makes me feel like they came to the show.
Guest:They did, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, and I met them.
Marc:Yeah, they're sweet.
Guest:They're sweet.
Guest:I mean, my mom is kind of banned right now because she fucking heckled me in Philly recently when I was headlining and completely ruined an entire almost sold out show.
Guest:Fucking psycho.
Marc:Well, that's all of it.
Guest:And then I'm like, she threw a hand.
Marc:She made it about her.
Guest:Yeah, it was crazy.
Guest:And I'm telling her, I'm going, she threw a fucking wrapped present.
Guest:It was Christmas weekend.
Guest:She threw a wrapped present on stage.
Guest:So I have to open a present.
Guest:And then I open, I have to explain who the fuck my mom is, where she's from.
Guest:Like, I'm like, mom, they don't know me yet.
Guest:Like, what the hell?
Guest:Stop acting like, I mean, this is like.
Marc:Made it about her.
Marc:Yeah, and also like it gets you off balance.
Marc:I mean, it seems like there was a competitive element to the relationship.
Guest:Yeah, it's really weird.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:So, but, so when you got sober, how'd you do it?
Guest:So I moved to New York to do comedy.
Guest:I'm not doing it.
Guest:I'm drinking crazy, right?
Guest:Nobody else is drinking like me.
Guest:I'm not around people.
Guest:In Santa Fe, a lot of people were drinking as much as me.
Guest:Nobody else.
Guest:And I'm like, now I'm in a more dangerous situation.
Guest:And I'm like, I remember I would like joke.
Guest:I was like, should I just bring a rape kit with me?
Guest:Because this is crazy.
Guest:I'm just like, I'm just offering myself out there to the wolves, you know?
Guest:And so...
Guest:Finally, my friend Abby Luck, who's still one of my best friends in the whole world, who I was staying with, she's an amazing artist.
Guest:She, an animator, she was like, I'll go with you to an open mic.
Guest:So we go to an open mic.
Guest:I've already been told at this point, I already know it's not a good idea for me to hook up with anyone or do anything.
Guest:And I already am thinking I want to quit drinking.
Guest:I've been in that mindset for about a year.
Guest:So I go to the mic.
Guest:I bomb.
Guest:Obviously, I like blackout.
Guest:I fucking dropped my set list.
Guest:I don't know what I ended up yelling at everyone.
Guest:I don't know what I said or did.
Guest:And I'm very upset.
Guest:I'm very hard on myself.
Guest:I'm sitting at the bar.
Guest:And this comedian who I don't like, I don't I don't enjoy him.
Guest:I think he's unfunny and annoying.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He comes sits next to me and he keeps buying me beer or buying me alcohol.
Guest:And I'm like, nah, man, I'm not.
Guest:Like, I don't want to hang out with you.
Guest:Like, I'm an alcoholic.
Guest:Like, don't buy me drinks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, I can't say no.
Guest:So, of course, he keeps buying me drinks.
Guest:And he's like, don't worry about it.
Guest:You know, it's just stand up, which obviously that's true.
Guest:Your first open mic who gives a shit.
Guest:But I was so sure this was my life's.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I just failed at this thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I was so upset.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I remember doing Jaeger, taking a shot at Jaeger, which I had already quit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I was like, uh-oh.
Guest:And then I end up blacking out, waking up in this OpenMaker's apartment in Bushwick.
Guest:It's snowing out.
Guest:I'm on his air mattress.
Guest:I'm like, this is the bottom.
Guest:This is it.
Guest:I look at him.
Guest:I'm fully clothed.
Guest:I hadn't done anything with him.
Guest:But I wake up just like, fuck, what am I doing with my life?
Guest:And I'm just like, I'm gonna quit drinking.
Marc:I'm done.
Marc:I'm fucking done.
Marc:I'm gonna do this.
Guest:Yeah, and I'm like, the one thing I didn't want to do, I'm already like at this guy's house and shit.
Guest:So then I quit drinking.
Guest:I stopped drinking.
Guest:I call my friend Tate Fletcher.
Guest:Do you know who he is?
Guest:No.
Guest:He's like a buddy of Rogan's, he's a MMA trainer, motivational speaker guy.
Guest:But he was my friend in Santa Fe and I knew that he had been sober so I called him and he was like, just say to yourself 30 days for now.
Guest:So it wasn't too overwhelming.
Guest:And he's like, and just go to meetings and you can either talk or not, you can also just listen, you don't have to do anything, just go.
Guest:Check it out.
Guest:And once I went to my first meeting, I was like, this is a fucking problem.
Guest:I got to be here, you know?
Guest:So then I started doing the 90 and 90 and I knew like it wasn't going to just be, I just was like, I can never do this again.
Guest:It was too life or death.
Guest:It was too, I was going to fall.
Guest:I couldn't believe like people weren't dying in the train tracks all the time.
Guest:Cause I'm like sloppy drunk falling downstairs and shit.
Guest:So, um,
Marc:So how did it feel to get sober that first time?
Marc:Were you crazy?
Marc:I couldn't sleep, I couldn't sleep.
Guest:And then this thing happened with my school, so then I'm flying back, and I was staying with my friend Abby, but her friend Paul, I insulted him.
Guest:He was playing guitar, and I went, ooh, I love the Goo Goo Dolls.
Guest:And he was like, you have to leave.
Guest:You have two days.
Guest:And I'm like, but I'm getting sober.
Guest:And it's so funny when you get sober, nobody cares.
Guest:You're so in your own life.
Guest:I'm Whitney.
Marc:You should be proud of me.
Marc:But it's me.
Guest:I need your help.
Guest:He's like, fuck you, bitch.
Guest:And I'm glad he did that.
Guest:It was helpful for me to have someone fucking say no to me.
Guest:And Abby was like, sorry, dude, you're out.
Guest:I can't do anything.
Guest:And I'm like, she was always saying one of her favorite moments with me is when I was crying.
Guest:And I was like, but the Goo Goo Dolls joke was totally worth it.
Guest:I'll never take a pack.
Guest:So then I had, I ended up staying with someone who was in the program.
Guest:Um, and it was good.
Guest:It was really good for me.
Guest:And then it started to feel like something I was going to rebel against and start drinking against if I kept going to it.
Guest:That's how I felt.
Guest:I felt like a very, um, what did you get a sponsor?
Marc:I had a sponsor.
Guest:I didn't like the steps.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I didn't like the first step at all.
Guest:The giving up my will or whatever.
Guest:I was very upset with that one.
Guest:I was like, I just gave up drinking, motherfuckers.
Guest:I'm pretty proud of myself.
Marc:Well, I think it's designed to enable you to realize that you can't do it.
Marc:It's easy to make it bigger.
Guest:But I definitely was like, I'm not giving up my will.
Guest:I was like, fuck this.
Guest:I could never get through the first step.
Marc:But you did know that you couldn't drink.
Guest:Oh, I knew I could never drink.
Guest:I was like, you know, I try to not say never just because that's a crazy thing to say, but I don't have, I think because I was able to replace it with comedy.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Because I just started going like five mics a night and stuff.
Guest:It's like very easy for me to not.
Marc:And you put together your, like your set.
Guest:My set.
Guest:Do you want to hear my first joke?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:All right.
Guest:I was like, my mom just joined Facebook.
Guest:This was right when moms were finding out about Facebook.
Guest:She goes, she's been tagging me in all these like really embarrassing baby pictures.
Guest:Like there's this one, her vagina just makes my head look so small.
Guest:yeah that's a good one a little one I remember I did one of Donnell's shows and Marina Franklin was like that's your first joke she's like alright and then like so and now you've been working you've done like you know Comedy Central half hour you've done an album I haven't done I haven't done any specials or albums just from my own
Marc:But you're out there headlining.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, I headline and I did, I had a show on, a talk show on E for very briefly for like four episodes and I did, I was, you know, I was on some MTV stuff.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I worked on, but now, you know, like I just worked on the,
Marc:The Sacha Baron Cohen thing.
Marc:You and Kurt.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Marc:So, like, you've known Kurt for a long time.
Guest:He's been my best friend for, like, seven years.
Marc:And it just happened?
Guest:Well, he... I'm really good friends with his ex-girlfriend, too, so they were a couple, so I never looked at him like... Karen.
Guest:Karen, yeah, Karen, yeah.
Guest:So they were a couple, I just never looked at him like that.
Guest:I never even considered him like that.
Guest:And... But he was always, like, a family.
Guest:Like, it was like a family.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He's always the friend.
Guest:We always lend each other 500 bucks here and that.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:good situation and uh they broke up and i still wasn't looking at him like that and then we started working on the show comedically we just it's just like such a click yeah and we were years we write for years i used to stay at his house when i would go to new york i would live on i would sleep on one couch he would sleep on the other couch and then his girlfriend would get the bedroom because he has like night terrors and stuff yeah
Guest:So pretty much we would just be living next to each other in filth.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:While our beautiful angel was in her beautiful... Yeah, right.
Guest:She's like... I love her so much.
Marc:And nothing ever happened.
Guest:Never.
Guest:It was... He had promised me once.
Guest:I remember he was... I used to wear a necklace that said pig.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And he made me take it off.
Guest:He's like, don't wear that.
Guest:That's not what you are.
Guest:And I went to him because it was just... I got...
Guest:I feel like I had a little bit of a rough go with other comedians when I started.
Guest:I went into comedy with that story, you know, like having gone home with that guy.
Guest:And then I go to that mic the next week and he's telling the story as if I had fucking sucked his dick or something.
Guest:I was really upset.
Guest:So I get in and I go up and my first joke on the open mic, the next open mic was, you know, I've woken up bleeding.
Guest:I've woken up on park benches.
Guest:I've woken up in a bikini in the middle of the winter.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I never considered quitting drinking until I woke up on that motherfucker's air mattress and I literally dropped the mic.
Guest:And it was like great.
Guest:I felt good about it and I was excited to comedy, but I had a lot of like rumor.
Guest:I mean, they spread a rumor when I got Montreal.
Guest:Some people spread a rumor.
Guest:The other micers?
Guest:Yeah, some females.
Guest:Nasty bunch.
Guest:What was the rumor?
Guest:That I had sex with the fucking booker of Montreal to get into Montreal.
Guest:Do you remember when I was opening for you?
Guest:Do you remember when I was like, I would never have sex with anyone that could help me?
Guest:And you were like, I can't help it.
Guest:You were kidding.
Guest:You were like, I'm sorry I said that.
Guest:It was hilarious.
Marc:You threw me a softball.
Guest:But it was just like, I was so paranoid.
Guest:I never wanted to get something I didn't earn or anything like that.
Guest:And it's so hilarious because I'm like, if you guys knew the powerful dicks I fucking dodged, I could have probably a lot more success right now or less.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:I just don't... I don't know who starts that shit.
Guest:It's just... It's crazy, and it's such a weird week.
Marc:Do you know who started it?
Guest:I have suspicions, and... I guess it doesn't matter, because it's always going to be something.
Guest:And it doesn't matter, but the lesson for me to learn was, like, I was living very fearful that people were going to say these things about me, and the truth is, people are going to say things about me no matter what.
Marc:So, in terms of you and Kurt... So, we were working in the... So...
Guest:Kurt had my back, and he told me to take the pig necklace off, and he was like... That seems like a big thing, the pig necklace.
Guest:Yeah, it was.
Guest:It was really nice of him to do that, and it was really helpful, because I did.
Guest:I'm wearing this fucking thing around my neck that's keeping me in this place of being rotten, and these things are all my fault.
Marc:Shame.
Guest:Shame, yeah.
Guest:So he...
Guest:He did that and he was and then he promised he's like I just want you know never I will never betray our friendship.
Guest:I will never Like hit on you or whatever.
Guest:So I really believed him So we're working in the room together We're just having so much fun and yeah when I used to live there We would just spend all night laughing and writing jokes and like wake up at 4 p.m The next day and go do shows with like brand new jokes was just like so
Guest:Every boyfriend I've had other than him since I did comedy made me feel like they're taking from my time in comedy.
Guest:And he just, I always say like Kurt's like salt.
Guest:Like he just, he just enhances everything.
Guest:Like he just makes like my life just better.
Guest:I'm going to cry.
Guest:I love him so much, but fuck.
Guest:I love him.
Guest:He's just so sweet.
Guest:And you find someone that like understands you and like can protect you.
Guest:And it's like I just didn't have anyone protecting me ever.
Guest:And to finally have this like person that just like he just gets it and he can tell me things about myself that I couldn't see.
Guest:Like I thought I was ugly and shit.
Guest:So I'm like I thought I was like looked like a boy and shit.
Guest:I'm like running around flashing my boobs thinking it's funny because I'm like this hideous monster.
Guest:And it's like, no wonder these girls fucking hated me.
Guest:I'm like, well, I don't want to say I'm pretty, but you know what I mean?
Guest:But it's like, I'm not.
Guest:I don't look like a boy.
Guest:I just didn't know.
Guest:My self-worth was so, like, I just didn't know what I was or what people saw me as.
Guest:And so it was just so nice to have someone that just knows me so well and, like, yeah, he's just helped me so much.
Guest:Like, I feel like I've gotten through so much of my shit.
Guest:Like, just to have someone who loves you.
Marc:How you saw yourself.
Guest:Yeah, just someone who just has your back and can, like,
Marc:just like gets you it's just incredible well that's great congratulations thank you yeah i feel really good i when i when i heard it i was like wow it made sense to me but i didn't know the whole history you know they call me girl kurt for a year like you know
Marc:And did you... So you feel like that this has helped you process the distrust and the trauma and your self-image?
Guest:Yeah, it was such a weird... I never had the experience of... I don't know if this is just like I just wasn't in love when I thought I was in love before, but I just had this experience of when it really like... When I really saw him and stuff and...
Guest:and was able to feel what he was saying to me, it felt like my chest was on fire.
Guest:If I think about him sometimes still, it's like I'm burning.
Guest:I was just so starved for...
Marc:Well, yeah, because when you just sort of do what you were saying before is like date people that you can.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, and you can manage it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's no trust really, but there's no threat either.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And it's just like, what is that?
Guest:Yeah, it's just a weird waste of time.
Guest:And it was just, I would get upset with myself and then I'd be like, and then I'm completely disrespect these people.
Marc:But also, don't you think that like you don't believe you're lovable or can love?
Guest:Yeah, there's that rotten thing.
Guest:I really, at the core, thought I was rotten.
Guest:And it was interesting because I used to go back to my high school.
Guest:I didn't realize the trauma.
Guest:I mean, it was such denial on so many levels.
Guest:And I would go back to my high school to visit all the time.
Guest:And up until four years ago, when my best friend, who was also a victim of molestation and assault and stuff like that, and she was like...
Guest:stop like fuck these people because i was like they made me feel terrible i would go in i remember the year after it happened i went in to go to the graduation ceremony yeah and i popped my head in to see the the art teacher that had helped me uh who i'd gone to and i leaned my head in and he goes get out this is for current graduates and screamed at me and i remember like being like in such shock because i was going back to be like hey
Guest:Hey, like.
Marc:Thank you.
Guest:Like, you know, not thank you, but I think I was just trying to get approval from them because I was just really left alone in that situation.
Guest:And so I go back.
Guest:He said that I remember just like crumbling in the hallway and the janitor walked by.
Guest:this guy Frank, and he went, I saw that.
Guest:He's like, I just want you to always call me Blondie, but not in like a jerk off on your leg sort of way.
Guest:He was very nice.
Guest:He goes, I saw, he's like, Blondie, I just want to let you know, like, I saw what just happened there.
Guest:I saw the way they treated you.
Guest:They did you real dirty.
Guest:I just want you to know I know that someone saw it.
Guest:And I was like, oh, thank God.
Guest:So then I never, I'm always like, did I make him up?
Guest:Is he imaginary?
Guest:But then I did, I got a message from one of my teachers the other day where she was like,
Guest:Well, I don't know, maybe I'll read it.
Guest:I haven't responded to her yet, but I will.
Guest:It's just so much, you know?
Marc:Just the other day?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She goes, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Guest:She goes, there's so much more I want to say to you.
Guest:Mostly that I'm sorry.
Guest:You went through a lot.
Guest:And I don't think I gave you everything you needed.
Guest:I tried, but that's not good enough.
Guest:I know that if you were my advisee today, I would have had much more to offer.
Guest:I love what a badass you are and always have been.
Guest:I loved you dearly when you were mine.
Guest:She was talking about when I was her advisee.
Guest:And I hope you felt that.
Guest:That's nice.
Guest:Yeah, it's nice.
Guest:I'm trying to work on forgiving and stuff.
Yeah.
Marc:Who are you working with?
Marc:What are you doing to help you through this stuff?
Guest:Well, I'm just kind of... I'm not in therapy right now, but I want to be.
Guest:It's just me and DMT.
Guest:Just kidding.
Guest:I haven't done DMT in a little while.
Guest:Yeah, I just... I don't know.
Guest:Right now, I'm kind of on a scavenger hunt, I guess.
Marc:Well, you feel like you have the support.
Marc:You're in a relationship that's opening you up, and maybe you're a little more able to process this stuff.
Guest:Yeah, I feel like...
Guest:I feel protected, but also I feel very strong and I can look back on all the situations and know that I really did fight for myself.
Marc:Yeah, definitely.
Marc:But when you think of these gaps, I mean, what is it that you need to know now?
Guest:I just, like, how did this happen?
Guest:To me, it's just, like, how, like, I'm just so curious about, like, his lawyer.
Guest:Like, how can you, like,
Guest:I guess it's me seeking approval still, because it's like, how could you, like, just label me as, like, fucking bad or something?
Guest:Or, like, it's just so, like...
Marc:That guy.
Guest:Well, it was just like all, like it just felt like everyone, it was just so hard.
Guest:Like why is my fucking softball coach or my fucking, the girl from my softball team, I can't remember if he was the coach or not, but like I just don't, there are things I didn't ask then.
Guest:Like I ask questions now and I don't, I'm not afraid of hearing answers or.
Marc:Right, so a lot of it is around what happened, but also why did that, they demonize you?
Marc:And then why did everybody believe them?
Guest:Right, and it's not that like, it just felt like people were, other people around me were being protected from me.
Guest:I just am curious, I also am curious about, because I was trying to Google the details of the trial and it's just not anywhere.
Guest:I'm just curious about, I want to remember what happened.
Marc:Well, it's fortunate and good that so much good stuff is happening in your life career-wise.
Guest:I'm real happy, yeah.
Marc:And emotionally that maybe while your heart's open, you could figure that out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Not for any reason other than it will give you relief.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, no, for sure.
Marc:I'm not saying no one deserves a break in the story necessarily.
Guest:No, it's not like breaks or anything, but it's like, you know, for myself, it was just like, it all kind of came to a head after the election.
Guest:It was just jarring.
Guest:It was jarring.
Guest:I just was like so not expecting that.
Guest:And then, and the...
Guest:You know, I went to the women's and I just saw like all these like crying.
Guest:Like I was like, oh my God, we're like in some fucking, we're like, there's a lot of like traumatized.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I'm so relieved like to be dealing with all this shit feels so like, it's hard, but it's like, thank God I can move on.
Guest:I can start remembering things.
Marc:I can read a book.
Guest:I can like try to like learn and stuff now.
Marc:You don't have to be so fucking defensive all the time.
Guest:Yeah, I don't have to be all goddamn defensive.
Guest:Well, sometimes I do.
Marc:Fuck you, Mark.
Marc:But you know what I mean.
Marc:Yeah, no, I know.
Guest:I was just being defensive for fun.
Marc:I got it.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:You went to it.
Marc:But you can feel strong enough to let the better side of yourself out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I always think about what my twin brother said to me.
Guest:He's got a wife and two daughters.
Guest:At the time, he only had one daughter.
Guest:We were on vacation.
Guest:And his wife's an atheist.
Guest:And I go, aren't you an atheist?
Guest:He goes, are you kidding me?
Guest:He's like, have you seen my wife and daughter?
Guest:Like, of course I believe in God.
Guest:And I kind of feel that way about my life right now where it's like, not like God's hanging like this Catholic dude or whatever, but like I feel like that, like there's gotta be something that got me to this shit that's like where I just feel like I'm supposed to be, you know?
Marc:Yeah, I think maybe I should look at it like that.
Guest:Yeah, it's not like- For you.
Guest:Yeah, thank you, yeah, that's it.
Guest:But just, like, God's, like, the word, but not the... No, I know.
Marc:I know, yeah.
Marc:Like, you know, like, there is something about hanging in and about fighting the fight that, you know, eventually, you know, like, I think a lot of the stuff that's happened, even culturally, like, if what had happened in the election or what had happened with the women's movement did not happen, or Kurt didn't happen, who the fuck knows?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, for sure.
Guest:I mean, I had to be, like, triggered into the process, and I, like...
Guest:You know, it's funny, I did acid with my friend up in the Burbank Hills in her beautiful house, and there was a bear loose that day.
Guest:And I ran into the bear, like I saw the bear before we took acid.
Guest:I saw, I was crossing the street, I was going to yoga, and I make eye contact with the bear, and my friend's husband's been searching for the bear all morning.
Guest:So I'm like going down the hill, I make eye contact with the bear, I call my friend, I'm like, dude,
Guest:get Pete out here, I found the fucking bear.
Guest:And she goes, I just took acid.
Guest:And I'm like, oh my God, all right, well I'm coming back.
Guest:I guess you couldn't wait for me to fucking do yoga.
Guest:So then I'm like, I saw the bear, I gotta do the acid.
Guest:So then I turn, I go back and we take this fucking amazing acid my friend made in Santa Fe.
Guest:And I just had this amazing experience and everything was bear-related because of this.
Guest:So the bears, there's helicopters going around searching for the bear.
Guest:There's animal controls going up and down trying to find the bear.
Guest:And then we're sitting out in their hot tub and their porch, just like everything's beautiful.
Guest:And I just went like, holy shit, this whole time I thought it was a piece of shit and I've been a fucking pot of honey this whole time.
Guest:Holy.
Guest:So now I'm just like, if I put myself in as a pot of honey and I look back at everything, I go, yeah, it was a pot of honey.
Guest:The whole fucking time I was so mad at myself and I'm like, no, I was fucking, I was just a pot of honey.
Marc:That's great.
Guest:Yeah, I feel good.
Marc:Well, that's, I mean, I think that's a good metaphor.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Thanks, Annie.
Guest:Thanks, man.
Marc:That was me and Annie Letterman on Thanksgiving.
Marc:Was that appropriate for Thanksgiving?
Marc:I hope so.
Marc:Did you take a nice long walk?
Marc:Did it help out?
Guest:Boomer lives!
you