Episode 97 - Moshe Kasher / Rudy Casoni
Guest:Lock the gates!
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Pow!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Guest:What's wrong with me?
Guest:It's time for WTF!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Mark Maron.
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:What the fucks?
Marc:That was a curt one.
Marc:I hope everybody's all right.
Marc:I am doing okay.
Marc:Today is a important day.
Marc:I will share with you what that is about in just a second.
Marc:But first, I'd like to say Atlanta, Georgia, and anybody within a 300 to 500-mile radius who's willing to travel, this Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, I will be at the Laughing Skull Lounge in Atlanta, Georgia.
Marc:That is August 12th, 13th, 14th, and 15th.
Marc:I believe there are two shows there a night.
Marc:Go to vortexcomedy.com and you can get the information on that.
Marc:So why is today a special day?
Marc:Today is August 9th.
Marc:It won't be August 9th for more than a day.
Marc:So if you're listening to this on another day, obviously it's past.
Marc:But today is August 9th.
Marc:And that is the sign.
Marc:That signifies...
Marc:my 11th year of sobriety that is today august 9 2010 11 years clean and sober not perfect not sane not happy but sober am i supposed to be those other things i believe i am but i don't know doesn't always work out that way am i condescending or arrogant about my sobriety no i'm not not at all how did i do it a lot of ways
Marc:But I don't want to get into that directly on this show right now.
Marc:Got me into a little trouble.
Marc:A little bit of trouble relative to an interesting bit of trouble, actually.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:Whoa!
Marc:I shit my sober pants with that.
Marc:That's justcoffee.coop.
Marc:You can go there.
Marc:You can go to wtfpod.com.
Marc:Pick yourself up some Just Coffee WTF blend.
Marc:They'll kick me a little change, a few shekels.
Marc:If you get yourself some WTF blend, so consider that at JustCoffee.coop.
Marc:Why did I get into trouble?
Marc:How did I get into trouble?
Marc:From a sober person?
Marc:Well, look, I've been honest with you guys before.
Marc:I do engage in the program of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Marc:I have.
Marc:I do.
Marc:You can choose however much you want to engage in it.
Marc:If it helps you, it helps you.
Marc:But somebody reached out to me and said, look, you know, the reason why they have a policy, there is a policy within AA that says, look, you know, no publicity.
Marc:You know, you don't publicize it.
Marc:It's attraction rather than promotion.
Marc:And I thought, well, fuck, I'm helping people.
Marc:But the interesting thing is, and I always thought that the whole promotion thing was really about protecting your anonymity.
Marc:You don't want to, you know, let the cat out of the bag so people judge you in the wrong way.
Marc:A lot of people don't like knowing that someone's in AA because they don't understand the thing and they decide that person's a freak,'s got problems.
Marc:Unlike, you know, of course, a person that would say something like that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, no, the issue really is that if somebody is in the public's eye and is in AA and then fucking gets drunk, drives off a cliff or kills some people, wasted or whatever, the concern is that it will make AA look bad.
Marc:I thought that was pretty perceptive.
Marc:I don't know what it was, but I heeded the warning.
Marc:And that's why I'm not going to talk about it as deeply as I might have on this day, the 11th year of my sobriety.
Marc:Today is the anniversary of that, August 9th.
Marc:I get a lot of emails from you guys.
Marc:A lot of people thanking me for my honesty about sobriety.
Marc:Some people citing me as an inspiration for them to get sober.
Marc:In all honesty, it's a fucking pain in the ass.
Marc:Sobriety can be a fucking nightmare because you don't have anywhere else to go with your insanity.
Marc:At least when you drink or do drugs, when you're sitting there going, I'm fucked.
Marc:I'm in trouble.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:Everything sucks.
Marc:How do I stop this anxiety?
Marc:Why are there bugs in my head?
Marc:How do I sit down for two minutes?
Marc:What the fuck am I going to do?
Marc:At least you can knock back a few beers, smoke a little weed, pump a bunch of nightmare into your veins.
Marc:Whatever it is that you're going to do to take the edge off, you don't get to do that.
Marc:So it's a little more difficult.
Marc:But you find other ways.
Marc:I mean, there's the path of chronic masturbation.
Marc:There's also the path of compulsive eating.
Marc:Some people enjoy a little gambling.
Marc:Some people like to yell at people.
Marc:Some people... There's a million ways you can act out and get your ridiculous addictive needs met.
Marc:Go shopping.
Marc:Spend some money.
Marc:That's a rush.
Marc:Or else you could try to sit through the cravings and the discomfort and come out the other side a little more open, maybe a little more sensitive, maybe a little raw, but nonetheless without having tried to fill the hole that was punched in you by a bad upbringing or by some ridiculous karmic debt that was laid on you from another life, something genetic.
Marc:Who the fuck knows?
Marc:But I will tell you that I am fairly...
Marc:I'm fairly okay today.
Marc:Not great.
Marc:Not great.
Marc:But happy to be sober.
Marc:And my guest today is also sober.
Marc:This is kind of interesting.
Marc:We talk a little bit about the Jew thing here on WTF occasionally.
Marc:We get into the Jew thing.
Marc:Well, this guy's really a Jew in a certain way.
Marc:I mean, more Jew-y than I was ever brought up, but he's not as Jew-y now.
Marc:This is the interesting thing.
Marc:When I was younger, I always thought that Jews were special.
Marc:I don't know why.
Marc:I don't know if I was brought up with that.
Marc:I guess there is sort of a bit of Jewish exceptionalism built into the religion, built into middle class Jewness.
Marc:But I remember I got shattered with that.
Marc:I always thought Jews were special.
Marc:They were just the most intelligent.
Marc:They always were in the best jobs and they were important and this and that.
Marc:I just didn't think that Jews could be plumbers.
Marc:Yeah, I didn't think that Jews could be police officers or boxers.
Marc:And I worked at a deli back in Boston, Gordon's up in Nottingham, Pottingham Circle.
Marc:Not there anymore.
Marc:Old Jewish deli.
Marc:And I met a retired Jewish cop.
Marc:I met a Jewish contractor, but not that kind of contractor like the guy who puts a contract out on people.
Marc:I met Jewish plumbers.
Marc:In Boston, I met working class Jews.
Marc:I met a guy who made a fortune.
Marc:collecting coke bottles when he was a young man and coke eventually hired him he was in his 80s when i met him he he then now had stock in coca-cola and made a fortune this doesn't mean anything other than uh my my my illusions were shattered in that apparently you know jews and there were jewish boxers my buddy charlie miller who's a painter did an entire series of jewish boxers you should you should go check those out
Marc:This guy, Charlie Miller, just did a series.
Marc:Apparently, there was a tremendous amount of Jewish boxers back in the 20s.
Marc:And he does these amazing paintings.
Marc:You should really check them out.
Marc:I don't know if they're up anywhere, but you can go to JewishBoxers.net and see Charlie Miller's paintings.
Marc:Wonderful painter.
Marc:And go to SixMoreMiles.com to see his other paintings.
Marc:He likes painting fuck-ups.
Marc:Does a lot of picture, a lot of paintings of rock and roll fuck ups.
Marc:He also did the cover of my book, Jerusalem Syndrome.
Marc:So this all aside, the Jewish thing, as you know, I'm not that connected to it, but I am culturally in it.
Marc:And years ago, I remember doing a show in Houston, Texas, and I used to do about 15 minutes on being a Jew.
Marc:It was it wasn't I never could figure out how to do stuff on being a Jew, so I rarely did it.
Marc:But then I figured it out.
Marc:So it wasn't so it wasn't so hackneyed or predictable.
Marc:And I liked my Jew stuff, but it was a pretty big chunk.
Marc:And then after that show in Houston, Texas, a guy comes up to me, goes, you're pretty funny, dude.
Marc:But you're not really a Jew, are you?
Marc:Why would I make that up?
Marc:Why would I make up the Jew stuff out of all the things I would make up and do in Texas?
Marc:Why would it be?
Marc:I'm a Jew stuff that I didn't understand.
Marc:So let's talk to Moshe Kasher.
Marc:He has been on the show before he was at one of the live shows and I got a significant amount of email suggesting that he come on for an entire show because he's so fucking interesting that I asked him to do it and and he did it.
Marc:So let's enjoy that now.
Marc:Mr. Moshe Kasher.
Guest:What do you mean overgrown flies?
Guest:They were like large, like big, mean-looking, knuckle-sized flies.
Guest:In your new place?
Guest:Yeah, man.
Guest:And I was like, couldn't figure out where they'd come from, and it was like a horror movie.
Guest:And I sprayed them all with bleach.
Guest:I was like afraid.
Guest:I had fear.
Marc:You sprayed them with bleach?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did it work?
Marc:Yeah, they died.
Marc:So this is your new place out in back of that person's house?
Marc:Yeah, in between two houses.
Marc:Moshe Kasher is in the garage now, back by popular demand.
Marc:Yeah, I was surprised.
Marc:I mean, don't go crazy.
Marc:I mean, a few people were like, that guy seemed to have some shit, like some life story that we needed to hear.
Marc:Yeah, I agree.
Marc:It wasn't enough Kasher.
Marc:Agreed.
Marc:Now, we're all going to have to indulge the outdoor noises.
Marc:There's a lot of construction going on.
Marc:Now there's a fly in here.
Marc:Did you see that?
Marc:It might have come from me.
Marc:Maybe you're attracting flies.
Marc:Maybe you've really got to re-fucking-think who you are, dude.
Guest:Well, I was thinking that's why I was talking to somebody last night.
Guest:It's like maybe the place is haunted, and maybe the next time I jerk off, I'm just going to ejaculate 60 flies.
Marc:But that would be coming from you.
Marc:That would mean you're the demon.
Marc:I know that to be true.
Marc:I knew a guy that ejaculated flies.
Marc:60?
Marc:No, it was like 35, but still a bad sign.
Marc:He was on his way to a problem.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:He's like, this isn't bad yet, but this is something to notice.
Marc:15 more flies come out of my dick, I'm in trouble.
Marc:It's like my cholesterol.
Marc:I just went to the doctor.
Marc:I didn't talk about that on the podcast either, but I did, and I'm awaiting my cholesterol numbers.
Marc:So your bad cholesterol was high?
Marc:My good cholesterol was high.
Marc:My overall cholesterol was too high.
Marc:What was your bad cholesterol?
Marc:Must have been high.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:The rest?
Guest:There's two or three numbers there.
Guest:To me, it's just crazy that I am still buying jeans at Urban Outfitters and get a high cholesterol test back.
Guest:It means something's wrong on some level.
Guest:Yeah, you know what's wrong?
Marc:You're judging whether or not your health is appropriate to your fucking place where you shop because you're young.
Marc:That's what I'm saying.
Marc:Why don't you just say, I'm sad that I have high cholesterol because I'm 30 years old.
Marc:How old are you?
Marc:I'm 30 years old.
Marc:Right.
Marc:As opposed to, that doesn't match my haircut, my high cholesterol.
Guest:Well, that's what I'm saying.
Guest:No, it's more of an indication of where I'm at as a developed person.
Guest:I'm a person with high cholesterol in my body, but I'm so desperate to remain young looking that I'm buying tight pants at Urban Outfitters.
Marc:You can wear tight pants all you want.
Marc:You don't need pants to hide your cholesterol.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:No one's going to see that until you clutch your chest at a restaurant.
Marc:Yeah, when I go down hard.
Marc:Well, we were in Ireland together, and I guess we can start there.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Because we spend a lot of quality time.
Marc:Yeah, we're buddies now, right?
Marc:Why listen to a lot of your inflated...
Marc:sense of self because of what's going on in your life and i you know i i listened to it and i kind of took it because i'm like he's at that point now where he thinks everything's gonna work out and what was exciting for me and watching you was that um you've been riding pretty high lately and you got you got the you kind of got the wind knocked out yeah that's that would be that's a very apt uh sort of uh metaphor for i i was by the end of that week i was shaken
Guest:uh i haven't had you know you know you get to a point where you're paranoid on the street i i thought i was paranoid um people i thought that people were like nudging each other pointing laughing mocking me making fun of me and then my next thought my trained like you know recovery mind or whatever yeah said you're being you're being total no one's talking about you you're being paranoid and self-centered you think the world of yourself but nobody is even thinking about you and then i got to that party that night and this lady came up to me and was like why were those men pointing and laughing and making fun of you and
Guest:I was like, I knew it.
Marc:Well, Moshe, let's be honest.
Marc:You walk around with your ridiculous haircut.
Guest:I just don't know why the people in Ireland are making fun of me.
Guest:I mean, I had my short shorts on, no shirt, jerking off, screaming, I hate the Irish, England forever.
Guest:And they were all stupid.
Marc:staring who knew why would that happen you're right they're fucked up for doing that but what what did happen because i remember there we both of you and i were walking around sort of like well last night was bad yeah and then like you had one show like it's like that one was good right and the next time i saw you're like i gotta go back to the hotel yeah
Marc:It got to the point where I literally, after the first night, had to go back to the hotel.
Guest:Well, I went back to the hotel a few different times, and then I would gather my courage.
Guest:I would summon my courage and say, if I stay in the hotel, it will look like I'm staying in the hotel.
Guest:And again, no one would have noticed.
Guest:Yeah, no one cared about us.
Guest:But I summoned my courage and walked back to the party every night because I didn't want to let the bastards get me down.
Guest:And I assume that they are bastards.
Guest:I assume that they literally have never met their fathers.
Guest:Or a Jew.
Guest:Or a Jew.
Guest:Well, God the Father was a Jew.
Guest:Well, no, I guess God the Son.
Guest:Yeah, Jesus was a Jew.
Guest:I get confused about Jesus.
Guest:But it was interesting, and it shook my confidence.
Guest:It shook my confidence.
Marc:Yeah, you're pretty shaken up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you can't dress like you dress and not be confident.
Marc:That's correct.
Marc:So that's why they were probably laughing at you.
Marc:It's because you were shaken up and you were dressed.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Or maybe you're saying they could taste it on my aura, my energy.
Guest:Something about my energy.
Guest:Like, look at this.
Guest:Yeah, your essence was shaky.
Guest:I believe that.
Guest:Because you get to the point, I'm sure you get to the point like,
Guest:You know, I felt... You know, you feel like as a comic at certain points, like, I'm... Okay, I've finally gotten to be... I'm bulletproof.
Guest:I might have negative sets.
Guest:I might have not great sets, but I'm not going to have a bad set.
Guest:I'm past that.
Guest:And then, have you never had that feeling?
Guest:No.
Guest:I've talked to a lot of comics that feel like that.
Guest:Like...
Guest:Because it's a... I guess so.
Guest:I mean, but it's really relative to what bad means.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Not like I'm going to only have good sets from now on, but like... You might not stink and tank.
Marc:You might not have a horrendous crickets bomb.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But you can still have bad sets.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, no doubt.
Guest:But...
Guest:So I hadn't had a bad set in a long time, and I felt like I had three in a row in Ireland.
Guest:Awesome.
Guest:And so by the end of the third, which, by the way, I got a really good review on one of the ones that I did.
Marc:You were so funny because you were like, you know, as bad as this was, the press is going to float me.
Guest:It's true.
Guest:It's true, though.
Guest:I don't even know if I should say this on a podcast because maybe then they're going to take it back or whatever.
Guest:What do you mean they're going to take it back?
Guest:They're going to retract the press?
Guest:No one cares about that.
Yeah.
Guest:No, but no.
Guest:Okay, here's what happened.
Guest:Thursday night I had a really good show.
Guest:And most of the people that were, most of the press that was there that saw me saw me at that show.
Guest:So, you know, thankfully that was good.
Guest:It was not a seamless, easy show.
Marc:No, I know, but they don't care about that.
Marc:They know it's a fight.
Marc:We're just whiny bitches.
Marc:And the thing is, so what?
Marc:You know, just buck up and get to the next one.
Marc:We just had to figure out what worked and what didn't work.
Marc:And if a press sees you, they're going to look at you in different ways.
Marc:It's not about audience response.
Guest:Yeah, no doubt.
Guest:But by the end of the thing...
Guest:By the way, you know that someone... Oh, we've talked about how someone screamed next during my worst set.
Guest:That's a bad heckle.
Guest:Oh, it was bad.
Guest:But that's what I've written a joke about, which I'm really happy about.
Guest:So I'm glad he did that.
Guest:And you know what?
Guest:I hope that guy just found out he has leukemia.
Guest:So I'll bless him for that.
Guest:So good you're bigger.
Guest:You take the high road.
Guest:The bigger man, yeah.
Guest:I like the high road.
Marc:The high road is littered with people that you want dead.
Guest:The high road is littered with Irishmen with leukemia.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Guest:And I am the man with the magical flask.
Guest:We'll still come back to bite you in the ass.
Guest:What's that?
Marc:You know, the wishing ill on people.
Guest:Well, the truth is I don't actually want that guy to have leukemia.
Marc:But see, you write that line where it's part of your comedic angle.
Marc:But it's very close to true.
Marc:No, you think that I really want the guy to die?
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:I think it's funny.
Guest:But still, once you manifest that, I don't believe in that.
Guest:in what in manifestation of energies based on on like you know i mean like if i'm kidding i'm kidding like okay for example like i believe in i believe in god okay let me ask you a question yeah are you a fucking asshole no i'm a good guy did that have effect on you no of course words have effect on stuff i don't mean i don't mean and also if you tell yourself every morning i'm a piece of shit eventually you're gonna start matching the your affect to become a piece of shit i get that
Guest:like if you got you gotta but i don't believe that like if you wish ill on a person in a joke that you're karmically eventually ill will come to you in some i just don't because i'm just kidding because okay right but what if it's misunderstood are you saying that oh i guess that guy could be like find me and kill me yeah oh well i didn't think of it that way
Guest:yeah i didn't think of it that way in the beginning there was the word all we have is the word it's very powerful i guess yeah language is powerful but also uh um context is powerful sure so if i'm kidding i'm kidding and that's i guess that comes back comes back to the problem with with ireland is that i'll give you a great example yeah i have this bit when i when i start off in a headlining set where i will often someone will laugh at the way that i look before i start talking i
Guest:And if they don't, I do a trick where I kind of bob my head a little bit to make them laugh.
Guest:But they don't know that that's happening.
Marc:I bet you're looking at me thinking, bleh, bleh, bleh, bleh, bleh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, I'm the bastard child of, you know, anyway.
Guest:You do that one?
Guest:I don't do that.
Guest:You don't do any version of that?
Guest:No version of that.
Guest:Ever?
Guest:I've never done a version.
Guest:Okay, all right.
Guest:Well, who do I look like?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:What is your joke to make people laugh at you more?
Guest:Well, I'm going to tell you.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Actually, but people were calling me Boy George McFly at Montreal, some of my buddies.
Guest:I thought that was kind of a cool... Yeah.
Guest:Boy George McFly.
Marc:Kind of got a retro feel to it.
Guest:Yeah, it's very me.
Guest:But anyway, I will say thank you very much for the preliminary laugh at my physical appearance.
Guest:I appreciate that.
Guest:That's how I know the show's going to go well.
Guest:When you start laughing, not at the jokes I wrote, but the body I was cursed with.
Guest:Go fuck yourself.
Guest:That's sort of how that...
Guest:Now, in America, I've literally never had that not have an explosive reaction.
Guest:In Ireland, literally every time I said that, I could feel the audience go, go fuck yourself.
Guest:Why would he say that?
Guest:Why would he say go fuck yourself?
Guest:Where's the audience?
Guest:What did we do?
Guest:To me, that typifies what was happening.
Guest:There was no space between what I was saying and what I could be meaning.
Marc:It's because your tone is very... There's a subtlety to your aggression that I think that in...
Marc:Here, given the context of a comedy club, I just think they wouldn't have known whether this American's just cranky or not.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:Whereas here, everybody goes, oh, I mean, they don't think this, but their mind knows that they go, oh, I get it.
Guest:This isn't really about him saying, go fuck yourself to me.
Guest:It's really about him having low self-esteem about the way that he looks, and he's doing a bit where he's upset that people always laugh at him.
Marc:There's a lot going on.
Guest:Yeah, and that just happens automatically.
Guest:In Ireland, that...
Marc:translation wasn't happening they were right well they just saw he's mad because we he thinks we're thinking a certain thing right yeah there's definitely a separation between you know i don't know there i mean i thought a lot about it there's just cultural things that don't translate and they're not references they're actually ways of thinking about self yeah i think that that's correct and i think that in whatever way i am
Guest:was the exact way that didn't fit into those grooves.
Marc:Yeah, but I thought we were hard on ourselves too, though.
Marc:I mean, once I figured out a way to sequence my bits and localize a couple things, I did fine.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But unfortunately, it was the last night I was here.
Marc:Right.
Marc:For the background, I mean, let's do this again, even though we talked about some of it on the live podcast.
Marc:But you're born to these Hasidic people.
Right.
Marc:You grew up in a Hasidic household.
Marc:It's more complicated than that.
Marc:Well, let's complicate it up.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Let's go back to the beginning.
Marc:How'd you get so fucked up and then come out the other side?
Marc:I was born by a river.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And they found in a boat.
Guest:No, I, both of my parents, let's start here.
Guest:Both of my parents are deaf.
Guest:Do you know that?
Guest:Were they deaf before they were Jews?
Guest:Wait, I'm trying to even understand that question.
Marc:I mean, were they always Jews and deaf people?
Marc:Like, were your parents born in Hasidim?
Guest:No.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So, no.
Guest:It's so complicated.
Guest:My great-grandfather moved over here from Hungary in, like, 1922, before the Holocaust.
Guest:He moved over alone.
Guest:He got out.
Guest:He got out.
Guest:And he moved over alone and just started... That's foresight.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, the Jews are smart.
Guest:Well, actually, that's...
Guest:We saw the Holocaust coming and we avoided it neatly, except for everybody.
Marc:Some Jews are fucking stupid as everybody else.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Of course that's true.
Marc:Some Jews are racist.
Marc:They're horrible.
Marc:Oh, they're horrible.
Marc:There's a lot of horrible Jews.
Marc:Like I used to be into that whole Jewish elitism thing or the Jewish uniqueness.
Marc:What is it?
Marc:Entitlement?
Guest:Oh, exceptionalism.
Guest:Yeah, Jewish.
Guest:It's not true.
Marc:There's a lot of fucking morons who are Jews.
Guest:No doubt about it, but I do believe in some form of Jewish exceptionalism, but I don't believe in cosmic exceptionalism.
Marc:Well, it's exceptionalism because there's a tradition of education.
Guest:I think that's correct.
Guest:And also there's a tradition of talking.
Guest:I mean, some of that's annoying.
Guest:It's like the whiny Jew is a manifestation of the engaging.
Marc:Yeah, when God said something, we said, why?
Guest:Not like, okay.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, we had to, you know, and we never got the right answers, so there's a never-ending debate about it.
Guest:Right, but some Jews are just cunts.
Guest:I mean, the worst people.
Guest:Oh, yeah, horrible.
Marc:The Jews are terrible.
Marc:Fat, disgusting, stubborn, filthy people.
Guest:Just chicken eating, you know, and we run the media.
Marc:It's so funny we're going to get so specific.
Marc:We run the media, but thank God I get my check.
Marc:I got a check yesterday.
Marc:Did you get your check?
Guest:Well, yeah, and that's actually where you and I met.
Guest:Don't love the health plan.
Guest:Was at that annual money meeting.
Marc:Yeah, it's funny you mention that because I did a prolonged bit about that where I...
Marc:basically owned up to it about the room and all the synagogues where we can go and just count money and hang out with the money.
Guest:Swim in the coins.
Marc:Sure, sure, sure.
Marc:The Jews news, which we all get.
Guest:Right.
Marc:We still own the media.
Marc:We still own the world.
Guest:Yeah, actually, strangely enough, my first publication that was bequeathed upon me by the Zog, the Zionist Occupational Government, was Jet Magazine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a black magazine.
Marc:And that's why you did the whole baggy pants.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:They needed you.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:They needed you there.
Marc:You and the guy from third base.
Marc:MC Search.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:You were the two.
Marc:MC Search, man.
Marc:An interesting guy.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So your parents are both deaf, but they're not Hasidic Jews yet.
Guest:So my great grandfather moved over here and left the whole family behind.
Guest:And he was incredibly.
Guest:In Hungary.
Guest:In Hungary.
Guest:And he was incredibly religious.
Guest:I thought you said incredibly Jew.
Guest:No, yeah, he was.
Guest:He was, we called him Zaidi, right?
Guest:Zaidi means grandfather, but not, he was not everybody's grandfather, but he was just known as Zaidi.
Guest:Grandfather of the Jewish people.
Guest:He was the motherfucking patriarch of that, of my family.
Guest:Beard?
Guest:I mean, the silk gown, fur, strimal, you know the strimal?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, he was the real thing.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:The real fucking deal.
Guest:And he, you know, lorded over the family like a king.
Guest:Well, my grandmother, my father's mother, resented deeply the fact that he moved away and left everybody behind.
Guest:And so while everybody followed in his footsteps, when he called for the family some 12 years later, she said, go fuck yourself, which is, I mean, not literally, but close to literally.
Marc:Okay, so he's the only one here from Hungary, and he brought your father with him?
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Guest:He's my great-grandfather.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:And he brought my grandmother over 12 years later, who hadn't seen her father in 12 years.
Guest:She said, fuck this, and just left.
Guest:Became a pork-eating American Communist Party member, anti-religion, civil rights marching.
Guest:Your father's mother.
Guest:My father's mother.
Guest:Civil rights marching hippie.
Guest:Right.
Guest:From this- Where she lived?
Guest:In Brooklyn.
Guest:Yeah, there was a lot of that going on.
Guest:Sure was.
Marc:My great aunt was like that.
Guest:Yeah, and she said, fuck religion.
Guest:I never want to be affiliated with Jews again.
Guest:I hate the Jews.
Guest:And then she married my grandfather, a Yiddish novelist from Poland.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So she was a commie, helped the black people to.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Civil rights, atheist.
Guest:Fuck religion.
Guest:Yeah, socialist.
Guest:And her father was as religious a person as could ever have been.
Guest:Was God.
Guest:Was God.
Marc:Okay, so your grandmother marries the Yiddish novelist.
Marc:She's a commie.
Marc:He's a Yiddish novelist.
Marc:Has your father.
Marc:He's deaf.
Marc:Correct.
Marc:And not a Hasidim.
Guest:No.
Guest:At this point, they're pretty much not religious at all.
Guest:But it's from the time in Brooklyn where to be Jewish didn't mean to be some mealy white person with no actual cultural identity who goes, oh, I'm Jewish, ha, ha, ha.
Guest:But it was an actual cultural identity.
Guest:He said things like, I'm a Jew.
Guest:No, he said things like, oh, I'm a Jew.
Guest:No, because he's deaf.
Guest:Um, but, um, uh, he was, my dad was, my dad's passed away.
Guest:Uh, but he was like that.
Guest:He was like Zaydi.
Guest:He was the, he was the next lightning rod of, of charisma in my family.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But there's been a lot.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's a very charismatic family.
Guest:And he eventually was raised in that world and was connected to Zaydi, which is how he got a sort of affinity for Hasidic Judaism.
Guest:He married my mother.
Guest:He met my mother, who was a non-Jew, and she converted to Judaism, and they became religious together.
Guest:A non-Jewish deaf person.
Guest:non-Jewish deaf person, she converted, they became a Jewish couple together and were pretty religious.
Guest:But then, you know, they divorced when I was nine months old.
Guest:She essentially kidnapped us.
Guest:She told my father we were going on vacation to visit my grandma in Oakland and we never came back, we never returned.
Guest:And from that point on, their relationship was one of hate, which is so interesting to me.
Guest:I always think, are your parents divorced?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So interesting to me to think that the day before they divorce, they're married.
Guest:And then the day after they're divorced, they hate each other forever.
Guest:It's like such a... I know how that happens.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:Oh, right.
Guest:I bet you do.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:No, it evolves.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I mean, but like if an action was taken...
Guest:Right.
Marc:But my mother hated him as much or more than he hated her.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:She chose to take you kids.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So that's going to happen.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, it wasn't like, you know, let's talk about this.
Marc:Once the communications break down where I'm like, I'm doing this, fuck you.
Marc:Right.
Guest:The hate comes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we had this narrative, you know, and my mother had this narrative of a heroism.
Guest:you know i rescued you from this she rescued the jews yeah i rescued you from this abusive environment which was what i don't know she she says that my dad was physically abusive to her and did she turn on her judaism too after she left your dad she say fuck the judaism i'm going back no no yes and no but no i mean she was still into it yeah she was still into it he married another deaf woman
Guest:What is it with this deaf community?
Guest:Well, the deaf are as insular a community as anyone has ever been.
Guest:I mean, they're so small and so linguistically isolated, too.
Guest:That's important.
Marc:But they're very proud of their... They actually, from what I understand, resent people that get those implants.
Guest:That's right, yeah.
Marc:Because we have a language.
Marc:We're fine.
Marc:It's almost like the handicapped has defined them into a community, and now they don't want... Well, they wouldn't call themselves handicapped.
Guest:right they would they would call themselves deaf first and foremost well really the difference between deafness and other disabilities is that deafness necessitates a uh a language and language creates culture right and so because they language created culture they have now a culture and now they're like we love our thing so your your father met these women through the the deaf community
Guest:like yeah from the deaf from the deaf um they're called deaf pussy clubs and it was where you go you just i'm just kidding um yeah you know deaf people want to marry other deaf people often because very few people can communicate with them uh-huh right without getting irritated huh no that's jews but you get double whammy that's right um
Guest:And so my father remarried a woman who did, in fact, have genetic deafness.
Guest:Neither my father nor my mother did.
Guest:That's why my brother and I are both hearing.
Guest:But my father remarried this woman.
Guest:All of their kids are deaf.
Guest:All of their grandkids are deaf.
Guest:I have deaf brothers, sisters, half-sisters, stepsisters, aunts, uncles, cousins.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I got deafness on all sides.
Marc:That is amazing.
Marc:So now in communicating with your father, so you can sign, I imagine.
Marc:I can.
Marc:Like really second nature like?
Guest:Yeah, like I'm fully, fully fluent in sign language.
Guest:Does that go away?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It never has.
Marc:Oh, because you got to see your mom sometimes.
Guest:Yeah, but you know, sign language was my first language.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I mean, I don't know what first language actually means.
Guest:It was my first language.
Guest:Can you sign in Hebrew?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:No.
Guest:I know some sides.
Guest:But it was the common misconception.
Guest:Can you sign in Hebrew?
Guest:Poorly constructed question.
Guest:Can you sign Israeli sign language is what you mean?
Guest:Because American sign language is not a translation of English nor is Israeli sign language a translation of Hebrew.
Guest:Holy shit.
Guest:It's complicated.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You just condescended to me and taught me a lesson and tried to make it okay all at once.
Guest:Is this interesting?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, it was up until you said poorly structured question.
Marc:Ha, ha, ha, ha.
Marc:Then I kind of glazed over it.
Marc:So... No, but how'd you get so fucked up?
Guest:Well, that's a better question.
Marc:No, I mean, like, you got these parents, all right, they're divorced, your mom's deaf and Jewish, but she doesn't really want to be Jewish that much anymore, and you're yelling at her in sign language, and you're doing drugs.
Guest:They hate each other.
Guest:My mom tells me that my father loves my brother more than me.
Guest:She...
Guest:where did your father live was he still but you were in oakland yeah what the fuck i mean you couldn't get out there there's nothing you could do about that right uh how did i get so fucked up you know i was born pretty wild i was born pretty feral you know uh like i was born real violent and real crazy so there are some genetic uh some sort of genetic i mean you know my father my grandfather had a nervous breakdown the novelist had a nervous breakdown at some point
Guest:My mother's been in therapy forever.
Guest:I mean, therapy, some of the great holy rites in my family are divorce, therapy, psychotherapy, and, you know, Judaism.
Guest:Depression.
Guest:Depression, mental illness.
Guest:Right, so it's like so Jewish.
Guest:My little brother, my deaf little brother is like essentially schizophrenic and institutionalized and probably will be for the rest of his life.
Guest:So there's a lot of that.
Guest:There's that cloud there.
Guest:Drug addiction, mental illness.
Marc:So you took it to the streets, though?
Guest:But then I got sent to therapy when I was, like, six years old for the first time.
Guest:Seriously?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Why?
Guest:How were you acting out?
Guest:You know, it's so interesting to... I don't know, you know?
Guest:I mean, I was wild and crazy and fighty and violent and breaky things, and I would sneak in and drink perfume, and I would do all kinds of crazy shit like that, like, real fucking wild.
Guest:I was on a leash.
Guest:My mother put me on a leash when I was a kid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then I asked myself, was I fucked up and then I went to therapy or did I go to therapy and get fucked up because my mom was looking for something to be wrong with me because she believed so deeply in therapy.
Guest:It's hard for me.
Marc:I'm not so sure.
Marc:I think it's weird in retrospect that a lot of that stuff, I don't know how much it helps.
Marc:Do you?
Guest:Oh, I don't.
Guest:Yeah, I can't see how.
Guest:All I did was play in the... Did you go to therapy when you were a kid?
Marc:Once or twice, he brought me into a room to play games.
Marc:Sandbox.
Marc:Well, I was a little older, but it was board games.
Marc:Like, do any of these interest you?
Marc:You always felt like they were poking and prodding.
Marc:They had no fucking clue.
Guest:And then they would always, like, suck your penis and tell you not to tell your parents.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:I mean, and that's ridiculous.
Marc:I don't know how that helped me.
Marc:It didn't help me at all.
Guest:It's like I didn't know that was part of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm just glad it happened to you, too, because I felt weird about it.
Guest:And I was in therapy from the time I was six years old until I was 16.
Marc:But you ended up in a fucking mental hospital.
Guest:With more and more and more.
Guest:At one point I was in therapy eight times a week.
Marc:That's ridiculous.
Marc:I mean, what are you not in therapy?
Marc:But I mean, what are you talking about?
Guest:I mean, I was just talking about how by the time I got, yeah, I got locked up.
Marc:You don't even have that much life to look back on the process.
Guest:Yeah, I know, right.
Guest:And, you know, they diagnosed me with learning disabilities when I was real young, and mental problems, obviously, I was in therapy, and a divorce, and my grandmother being, and my mother, and the Judaism, and this, and then I was overweight, and I was at bad self-esteem, and blah, blah, blah.
Guest:And finally, I got high for the first time, and I fucking just... Solution!
Guest:Thank God.
Marc:Problem solved!
Guest:Yeah, man.
Guest:I was 12 years old and I was like... What'd you get high on?
Guest:Glue?
Guest:No.
Guest:I got drunk on Everclear margaritas and smoked weed.
Guest:And I felt like the weight of all of the problems I had and also didn't know I had were gone.
Guest:You know, you've heard the description like booze filled in holes I didn't even know were holes until I filled them with booze.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that was true, man.
Guest:I was like, fuck...
Guest:I mean, my whole feeling was, fuck this.
Guest:Like, fuck everything, you know?
Guest:But of course, being that young and using that heavily and frequently, it turned around and began to very quickly create more problems than it was solving.
Guest:And so by the time I was, you know, a year or two in, there was...
Guest:You know, I've been arrested.
Guest:I mean, I didn't have the wherewithal mentally to say, oh, keep it cool.
Guest:Don't do that.
Guest:Don't be an idiot.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I'm getting arrested all the time.
Guest:People are getting fucked up and going to the hospital and, you know, all kinds of crazy shit is happening.
Guest:This kid, we were all selling acid and one kid we sold it to in seventh grade had a heart attack and that kind of turned.
Guest:Died?
Guest:He lived.
Guest:That kind of turned the spotlight on us, my little group.
Guest:And then everybody was watching us, and it just was crazy.
Guest:And then finally, one day I went to another fucking therapy session.
Guest:I walked in, and I smelled something wrong.
Guest:First of all, there was a fat black policeman in the office, which was weird.
Guest:And she started doing this different form of questioning, this very pointed form of questioning.
Guest:Why do you do this?
Guest:I've heard you do that.
Guest:What about this?
Guest:What about that kid with a heart attack?
Guest:This, that.
Guest:And then finally it became clear she was like, you're going to be locked up today.
Guest:And you can either go in an ambulance or you can go willingly.
Guest:And she like passed me this piece of paper and she said, just write on the piece of paper whether or not you'll go willingly to the hospital.
Guest:And I just wrote, fuck.
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:And passed her back the paper.
Guest:And that day I got locked up in Ross Hospital in Marin County.
Guest:Juvenile, mental, whatever, crazy.
Guest:Shit.
Guest:The crazy house.
Guest:And did you freak out?
Marc:Did you act crazy because you were locked up?
Guest:No, you know, I had this real ability to...
Guest:I mean, I was livid.
Guest:I mean, I was so indignant and livid, and I just... I couldn't... I was so fucking angry that they had put me in this place.
Guest:And that's all I talked about.
Guest:I can't believe I'm here.
Guest:I can't believe I've been sent here.
Guest:Fuck that fucking cunt that sent me here.
Guest:And what's your mother doing in all this?
Guest:She's the cunt.
Guest:No, I'm kidding.
Guest:No, she's just like... My mother... I love my mother so much, but she's crazy.
Guest:And...
Guest:one of the main themes in my childhood was if I like there would be a like let's say there was a logic problem like I want to go you know it's good for me to have this juice and my mother would say no it's not good for you to have this juice and no matter how logical it was that I could say but the juice is good for me no matter what if she decided it wasn't it wasn't and the only way I could ever get her to relent is if we went to therapy and I had and the therapist said no juice is good and then she'd be like okay juice
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:So it was just fighting the whole time.
Marc:How long did you stay in the hospital?
Guest:I was in that hospital for two weeks.
Guest:I remember it was on New Year's Eve.
Guest:I remember being locked up on New Year's Eve.
Guest:I had to go to bed at 10 p.m.
Guest:And then you ended up in a special program of some kind?
Guest:And then at that point, I can't remember what happened next, but I got out and they referred me to my first rehab.
Guest:So now I'm 13 and I've just gotten out of a mental hospital and I'm getting referred to and sent to my first rehab.
Guest:So I enter rehab, which was a day program after school day treatment.
Guest:At 13.
Guest:At 13.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I went back to school and I was really embarrassed, but I was also kind of into it.
Guest:Like people were afraid of me.
Guest:and weirded out by me because they'd all heard that I'd been locked up.
Guest:And then, you know, I mean, thank God I had this group of people, my guys, you know, that none of us gave a fuck about what was going on in the world.
Guest:None of us could, we didn't give a fuck about the conventions of,
Guest:I mean, it's a very juvenile way, but in a way it was really sort of life-saving.
Guest:Like, fuck the police, fuck Oakland Public Schools, fuck adults, fuck my parents, fuck therapy, fuck everything.
Guest:And, like, it's all about us.
Guest:Even though we were really abusive to one another, like, we were really vital to one another as well.
Guest:And we would just... So that's the only people I really cared about.
Guest:How many was in that group?
Guest:You know, those kind of groups, you know, they mutate.
Guest:Five to nine.
Guest:Yeah, but then there was sort of macro groups on top of that.
Guest:There were older generations and younger generations, homeless people that we would hang out with.
Guest:There was a cobbler in Oakland.
Guest:All this took place in Oakland, California.
Guest:There was this cobbler that would, he would sell you $1 bammer joints.
Guest:You know what bammer is?
Guest:Brownweed.
Guest:He would sell you $1 bammer joints or coke in a shoe.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You would pass the money and you would pass you a shoe with drugs in it.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, man.
Guest:It was pretty funny.
Guest:He was interesting because he was not only a drug peddler and a cobbler, but he also managed all the VA money for all the homeless, crazy veterans in Oakland.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:And so he would get their check.
Guest:He was like their advocate or whatever, but he was also like this drug dealer.
Guest:Yeah, it'd be like, whatever.
Guest:It was an interesting time.
Guest:Did it seem like everybody got taken care of?
Guest:Seems like it.
Guest:Most of them are dead.
Marc:So, no.
Marc:So, this was on the streets of Oakland that you defined it, but you were not, this wasn't a gang.
Guest:I mean, it was not a gang in the sense that we weren't, like, tough.
Marc:All white guys.
Marc:All white guys.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was a very particular time in Oakland, though.
Guest:It was the early 90s when we were like the murder capital of the world, and the murderers, the black gangster in East Oakland was to us, and not that...
Guest:whatever uh the the black gangster in east oakland the gangster rapper too short spice one right these are all rappers that were starting to get really prominent at that time drew down all these kind of people that was to us the highest goal that was the coolest social rung so you know i've never murdered anyone but i talked a lot about it when i was a kid like it was like almost a thing you would brag about like oh i'd you know i want you know i'll kill that fool i'm down yeah that was like what you would want to be and you were
Marc:You must have been very aggressive because you're still aggressive.
Marc:Even when I saw you when you middled for me, you made me uncomfortable.
Marc:You've mentioned that many times.
Marc:Not because I was physically threatened, but there was an edge to you that didn't seem to have much control over it.
Marc:That's interesting.
Marc:Do you know what I mean, though?
Marc:I couldn't tell whether you were uncomfortable on stage or angry in general or whether you were doing it on purpose, but you definitely seemed like something was... You seemed disgruntled.
Guest:That's interesting because back then, I feel like I was more happy-go-lucky than I am now.
Marc:You seem to have some shit together now, though.
Marc:You seem to have a little more control of your talent.
Guest:Thanks.
Guest:I believe that.
Guest:But I've also settled into myself as a human a little bit more.
Guest:You know, when I was 20... Well, this is getting out of it.
Guest:But when I was 20 and 25... Is that when I met you?
Guest:Probably.
Guest:25, probably.
Guest:I was really...
Guest:had no cares in the world.
Guest:I really was like supremely just happy about everything.
Marc:But you were very hip hopped out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you were like, you know, like it just seemed like your face looked strained and you like, I couldn't quite figure out what was funny about you.
Marc:you are a supreme dick not not not in that way but like you were so like even now like you're funny because your craft is in place and but you definitely ride a line like of being angry like if any any if anybody was going to sit down and listen to you for five minutes i mean it and they didn't know what they were listening to it's not like your jokes are you're not writing one-liners oh yeah i can't unfortunately and
Marc:And you talk over laughter on purpose.
Marc:So I'm not trying to be a dick.
Marc:A lot of times I can watch somebody and it wasn't that you weren't doing well.
Marc:It's just like I can't quite figure out what the trick is.
Guest:Well, I think at the time, I mean, this goes into a discussion of what it means to be a great comedian, but I think at the time I was...
Guest:this is one of my bigger realizations as a comedian in general is like, it's not really, to be great, it's not really about figuring out how to do well.
Guest:I think you, I'm sure you already, I mean, you already know that or whatever, but I'm not, I'm sure I'm not reinventing any wheel, but it's, you know, it's like when I first started doing open mics, I was doing well.
Guest:So I thought, fucking, I got this.
Guest:But then it took me like five years to realize like, oh, I don't know what I'm doing at all, really.
Guest:And then, you know, a few more years to go, oh, okay.
Guest:This is what it's about.
Guest:It's about being like myself and whether I'm doing well or not, like having a genuine expression.
Guest:Like how I feel on stage now outside of the country of Ireland is like I feel comfortable that I'm really giving my own show.
Guest:Like I read this review recently about the shows I did in Indiana.
Guest:It was a very, very positive review.
Guest:But it was saying that like...
Guest:you know he wanted to hear more crowd work because he thought that was the best part of the show right and he was like you know that was my favorite part and it should there should have been more of that and i thought to myself like this guy doesn't get what it means to have a show you know what it means to have a show is that i'm doing material and then i'm weaving it into crowd work and then back in material that's a show if i just go out and do you know 45 minutes of crowd work that's a different that's a different thing you're doing a greg proof style
Guest:Is that what Greg does?
Marc:Well, no, just sort of weave it in and out.
Marc:He'll do a little crowd work and then launch from bits from the crowd work.
Marc:That's how I do, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I haven't seen you do an hour.
Guest:No, and I think I'm better there.
Guest:An hour.
Guest:I think I'm better in a long set because it gives me time.
Guest:It gives me not only time, in terms of what you're talking about, it gives me not only time to...
Guest:uh, to, to introduce myself so that people can accept the aggression.
Guest:But I, it also gives me time to rhythmically go out of the aggression because, because there's, I'm very, uh, I feel like I'm lovable actually on stage when I have time to stretch out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm not just trying to punch you in the face.
Guest:I do my thing.
Guest:I do my aggressive ranty bits, but then I jump out of them and go into crowd work where I'm sort of, you can see more of my soft underbelly.
Guest:And then I jump back into this, uh, bravado, uh,
Guest:Yeah, I feel like I have that a bit myself.
Guest:I think you do, yeah.
Marc:But, I mean, when did you make the shift?
Marc:I mean, you don't have any black in you at all anymore.
Marc:I mean, you were a full-on sort of hip-hop guy.
Marc:Right.
Guest:It still comes out, though.
Guest:In reality, like, I...
Guest:I talk.
Guest:I mean, it doesn't sound like it, but I mean, you know Louis Katz, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Louis comes up to me and he's like- He's funny.
Guest:He's super funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He came up to me after we worked together in Austin.
Guest:He's like, oh, I think I- He's like, you know what's interesting about you is you're like this gay hip hop gangster Jew fag.
Guest:You don't exist.
Guest:It's like, oh, there's different stuff going on at once.
Guest:And when I'm able to stretch out, I can show those different aspects of who I am.
Guest:So the hip-hop stuff does come out sometimes when I'm interacting, when I'm doing, you know.
Guest:But it's all about juxtaposition.
Guest:I mean, you know, it's about me saying it.
Guest:That's what's funny about it.
Guest:It's like, why is this weird?
Marc:Alternating between one thing or the other.
Guest:But this is sounding like an ego fest.
Guest:That's not what I... That's not what you plan to do?
Guest:No, like lauding my own act.
Guest:It's okay.
Guest:I love your act, too.
Marc:Oh, thank you.
Marc:I think you're at a place now where you do that.
Marc:You're just going to have to accept it.
Guest:You know, my dad's been dead for a long time, so it's good to have you around.
Marc:That was a good one.
Marc:So, how's the girls treating you?
Guest:I hate pussy.
Guest:Come on, now.
Guest:You know me, Mark.
Guest:My love life is a wasteland.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, wasteland.
Guest:That's the last piece.
Guest:You know your joke about when you go to the therapist and they say the thing and you go, oh, okay, and you put it into the little puzzle behind you.
Marc:My mother said, when you were a baby, I just didn't know how to love you.
Marc:I'm like, oh, my God.
Marc:Okay, and you go into the therapist.
Marc:I got it.
Marc:I got the piece.
Marc:We're done.
Marc:We're all done.
Guest:Where's the puzzle?
Guest:There it goes.
Guest:You just click it in and warm, glowing light starts coming out from it like you are holistically healed.
Guest:I'm there.
Guest:I feel like that's women for me.
Guest:What's your pussy problem?
Guest:I just, I don't have a problem.
Guest:I just can't be, I've just, I'm 30 years old.
Guest:I've never had a really significant, serious relationship with a woman.
Marc:Why do you think that is?
Guest:I'm sure it's all connected.
Marc:No, but what is it that, but what, what bothers you about it?
Marc:I mean, you have to have had situations where it would seem close, where you guys are hanging out a lot.
Guest:I get panicked.
Guest:I freak out.
Guest:What's the fear?
Guest:I feel trapped.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I feel trapped like a trapped rat.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like you're always going to be here.
Guest:Yeah, and like you're going to... I feel physically claustrophobic sometimes.
Guest:I'm better.
Guest:Thank God.
Guest:I've been in therapy for a long time about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm better now than I was, and I feel like I'm ready, or I'm close to ready at this point in my life.
Guest:I just haven't found the person yet who I'm willing to make that big sacrifice, because to me, it's scary.
Guest:And it's not just about pussy, but it is about pussy, too.
Guest:But it's all connected.
Guest:To me, it's like the leash when I was a kid, my mother's claustrophobia, being locked up, thinking I was black, doing stand-up comedy, choosing a life where it's difficult to be in a relationship anyway.
Guest:being on the road, not having a girlfriend, sexual compulsivity, it's all the same thing.
Guest:It's all this little me.
Guest:Okay, yeah, so you're available.
Guest:Got it.
Guest:Yeah, I wouldn't say I'm available, but I'm willing to try.
Marc:Okay, put that out there.
Marc:You want to do a contest of some kind?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hey, you're tuned in the WTF podcast.
Guest:This is Moshe Kasher and special guest of Mark Merritt today.
Guest:And I want to say we've got a contest going now.
Guest:If you are a young Jewish lady, ages 23 to preferably 25 to 30, you are successful.
Guest:Don't mind a man that it's emotionally unavailable and physically absent.
Guest:This is your opportunity to win big.
Guest:The first 10 callers get the opportunity at heartbreak, but a charming young man who knows how to dress himself.
Guest:That's right, ladies.
Guest:Call now.
Guest:In many ways, I'm still, you know, you asked me why I don't have a girlfriend.
Guest:I really think I'm still dealing with the chaos.
Guest:I feel a lot better.
Guest:I feel like a normal.
Guest:I do feel like a well-adjusted normal.
Guest:Generally, you know, I'm neurotic, but I'm a Jew.
Guest:That's to be expected.
Guest:I feel like a pretty together, integrated person, but there are edges of my soul and there are deep wells in my soul that if I swim down far enough, I get to the scary stuff that was there in the first place.
Marc:Yeah, also the big question is, is there room for somebody else?
Marc:I want there to be, so yes.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:We're putting out there, that's out there twice now.
Marc:So I think we filled in the holes.
Guest:I appreciate you coming.
Guest:It was a good conversation.
Guest:You're lucky to be alive.
Guest:Yeah, amen.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Moshe Kasher.
Guest:Thanks, Mark.
Guest:You bet.
Marc:So this is interesting, folks.
Marc:There is a performer here in Hollywood named Rudy Gazzoni.
Marc:He does a monthly show at the Steve Allen Theater here.
Marc:Once a month.
Marc:Monthly show here at the Steve Allen Theater in Los Feliz.
Marc:This was Feliz.
Guest:Oh, it's Los Feliz.
Guest:It's sort of on the border between Los Feliz and Hollywood.
Guest:It's in Hollywood.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's on Sunset.
Guest:It's like Vermont.
Guest:And Hollywood.
Guest:Yeah, it's around there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a small theater.
Guest:I've worked there.
Guest:Close to that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Nice little place.
Marc:Yeah, now what's interesting is that people who have not heard of you don't realize that you claim to be.
Guest:Is it claim to be?
Guest:Can we say claim to be?
Guest:Well, there's a lot of, there's a lot has been, what I will say is that a lot has been written about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And on the blogs, you know blogs, you know blog stuff.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Guest:On the computers, they do a lot of stuff, a lot of work on this.
Guest:You are Frank Sinatra's son.
Guest:That's what they say.
Guest:I cannot confirm.
Guest:And I will not deny.
Guest:Do you understand?
Marc:Right, but you know who your mother is.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:And what's the backstory on this?
Marc:So you're not going to claim to be Sinatra's son.
Guest:This is not what this is about.
Guest:This is about you're interviewing an entertainer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And this is not going to be about me disproving the DNA lineage that I am in possession of.
Guest:That's mine.
Guest:On her deathbed, my mother told me.
Guest:On her deathbed when she was dying.
Guest:Right.
Guest:In a hospital.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In New Jersey, a hospital.
Guest:So she said that Frank Sinatra was your father.
Guest:She said that she was in Vegas about nine months before I was born, and she went to go see...
Guest:This, I will not name names.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Went to go see this beautiful blue-eyed crooner.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:At a show.
Guest:Frank Sinatra.
Guest:Whatever.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Blue eyes.
Guest:You get the picture.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:He points at her through the show, waves her up.
Guest:After the show, you and me, come at that.
Guest:And then on her deathbed, she explains that he had her every which way.
Guest:Which is hard to hear when your mother says, he bent me over a coffee table.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Or, yeah.
Marc:It's always hard to picture your parents in that situation.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But my question is, is that- Dear old dad.
Marc:Dear old dad.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But, I mean, why wouldn't you-
Marc:Why wouldn't you capitalize on that?
Guest:I mean, why wouldn't you go get the DNA test and get the proper... Because at every conceivable junction, I've been blocked by...
Guest:members of the actual DNA-holding family.
Guest:They won't come near me.
Guest:By the Sinatra family.
Guest:Tina and Hoo-Ha and Jimmy Joe.
Guest:Frank Jr.?
Guest:Yes, that one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Bobby.
Guest:Bobby.
Guest:There's another one there, but they don't talk about him.
Guest:There's another one.
Guest:There's a few more of us around.
Guest:nancy so you're saying a few more illegitimate sinatra kids could be do you talk to them a lot of times i don't so now do you sing i mean what do you do with the shows dude yeah we sing some lovely songs and uh there's a couple comedians come on do some funny things you should come on sometime oh boy that'd be that'd be nice you and your and your bit of rant yeah no that's fun to do in a show do you have a band do you have a you have a band there's a fellow andy paley who's a very lovely musician and and uh
Guest:He plays the piano.
Guest:Yeah, dude.
Guest:And he plays an organ, and we got a Chinese fella, half Chinese, half American.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:He prays the piano.
Guest:Do you do your father's music?
Guest:I do some of the, we do some Sinatra tunes.
Guest:We do Fly Me to the...
Guest:Find me the moon and such, one for my baby and a few of those.
Guest:And then I have an original piece that we usually do up to my ass in snatch.
Guest:It's fun we do.
Guest:A song about the old days when there was hot and cold running coos.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Sort of like maybe your mother was during the- Come on, come on, come on.
Guest:That's not funny stuff.
Guest:It's not funny stuff.
Guest:If I wasn't in the room and you're talking to Todd Berries or whoever, that's funny.
Guest:You all can have a good laugh, but it's not funny stuff.
Guest:It's not funny shit.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Well, I'm just saying that- It's just not.
Marc:But I mean- She had her problems.
Marc:But I'm saying that on some level, back in the day, your mom was swept with Frank Sinatra.
Marc:I mean, it was a voluntary thing.
Marc:I mean, I don't-
Guest:That was the thing.
Guest:Who knows how voluntary it was?
Guest:Who knows?
Guest:Oh, so you're suggesting that perhaps Frank Sinatra might have raped your mother.
Guest:Hey, whoa.
Guest:Oh!
Guest:What?
Guest:Hey!
Guest:Sorry.
Guest:You prick.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Listen to me.
Guest:Don't be a cock.
Guest:You're being a cock.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:All right.
Guest:You're right.
Guest:I'll back off.
Guest:Cocksucker.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Listen.
Marc:Have you... What?
Marc:I apologize.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:That was uncalled for.
Marc:I mean, a guy in your position who's unwilling to take a position on something that can change his life, I don't want to make your life any worse.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now, have you heard from the, I know that Frank Sinatra had mob ties.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Do you get any, have you been threatened or?
Marc:Some people tell me I should say less.
Marc:Frankly, you're not saying much at all other than you might be Frank Sinatra's illegitimate son who does a show and sings.
Marc:Right?
Guest:That sounds like enough.
Guest:Do you make money?
Guest:Yeah, like a million dollars a year.
Guest:What the fuck is it to you?
Guest:How much do you make a year, fucking Mr. Rockefeller?
Guest:Huh?
Guest:You saying it don't make much money?
Guest:Fuck you, Marin.
Guest:No, what I'm saying is that I would think that- The studio ain't the Hilton.
Marc:It's the Cat Ranch, thank you.
Marc:Oh, Cat Ranch.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, there's a lot of coups running around here, too.
Guest:Hey!
Yeah.
Guest:Mary made a joke.
Guest:Ding, ding, ding, ding.
Guest:What time is it?
Guest:Write it down, everybody.
Guest:All right, all right.
Guest:I guess I deserved that.
Marc:I had that coming.
Marc:So do you do these boots are made for walking?
Guest:No, I don't.
Guest:That's a Nancy tune.
Marc:Well, I figure you do Frank's tunes.
Guest:Maybe you do- No, no, no.
Guest:I don't do Nancy's or Frank Junior's though.
Guest:Funny story though.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Nah, I don't have a funny story.
Guest:I like saying that though.
Guest:Funny story though about these boots are made for walking.
Guest:We don't do it.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Yeah, screw it.
Guest:Are you- High as a kite?
Guest:Do you drink?
Guest:Do you- Do I drink?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Does the Pope shit in the woods?
Guest:No.
Guest:The Pope.
Guest:You know what I'm saying.
Guest:I do.
Guest:You know what I mean.
Guest:The bear shit's in the woods.
Guest:Oh, come on.
Guest:How do you open the show usually?
Guest:I've got you under my house.
Guest:I've got you deep in that old crawl space.
Guest:So deep in the ground, baby, there ain't gonna be no trace.
Guest:So I've got you under my house.
Guest:It's a little funny thing I do with the lyrics to the song, I got you under my skin.
Guest:I've replaced them with the lyrics of a child molesting serial killer.
Guest:It's a parody.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you're sort of taking the legacy of your- Keep going.
Marc:You're taking the legacy- Thin ice.
Guest:of the man that you claim to be your father.
Guest:You prick.
Guest:What?
Guest:I do some funny stuff in the show.
Guest:Leave it at that.
Guest:I'm sorry, man.
Guest:I don't know why I want to pick on you.
Guest:You get all defensive.
Guest:That's what we're after here at the Marc Marrone podcast.
Guest:It's Marrone.
Guest:Did you drop the I?
Guest:Marrone.
Guest:No, I'm a Jew.
Guest:Hold on there.
Guest:It's not Marrone.
Guest:But like Padron is someone from Padroni, but they just... No.
Guest:Elisabeth took off the eye.
Guest:No, it's not.
Guest:You're a Jew.
Guest:I'm a Jew.
Marc:Come on, you gonna tell me you didn't love Sammy Davis?
Guest:He was a... Come on.
Guest:What?
Guest:He wasn't a real Jew.
Guest:You don't think that your father, your supposed father, didn't work for Jews?
Guest:I mean, what do you think?
Guest:I just didn't know.
Guest:All right.
Guest:I thought it was an Italian thing, and we were... What, you want to go?
Guest:No, it's like the Jews, though, to pull something like that.
Marc:Rudy Cazone might be Frank Sinatra's son because his mother was a coos back in the day when they had coos.
Marc:A lot of coos around.
Marc:Honey dripper.
Guest:Boy, you've changed your tune from five minutes ago.
Guest:Thanks for being here.
Guest:Sure, fair enough.
Guest:This is never going to make you podcasters.
Guest:It might.
Marc:That's our show.
Marc:As always, please go to WTF pod.com.
Marc:Enjoy whatever you need to enjoy there.
Marc:Get on the mailing list.
Marc:I'm using it, keeping people updated on our guests and my comings and goings and theirs sometimes with some tidbits that I don't usually put on the podcast, special deals, this and that.
Marc:You can go to WTF pod shop.
Marc:And pick up your premium episodes.
Marc:We have the newest episode from Aspen, Colorado is up.
Marc:The first Live at Comics one is also up.
Marc:Those are $2.99 a piece.
Marc:Enjoy those.
Marc:And if you'd like to get some JustCoffee.coop, you can get that at WTFPod.com.
Marc:And you could also subscribe or buy some t-shirts.
Marc:Do what you want.
Marc:Love having you.
Marc:Thanks for listening.
Marc:Thank you, Moshe Kasher, for being on the show.
Marc:We'll be right back.
you