Episode 967 - D.L. Hughley

Episode 967 • Released November 12, 2018 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:Lock the gates!

00:00:09Marc:Alright, let's do this.

00:00:10Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?

00:00:12Marc:What the fuck, buddies?

00:00:13Marc:What the fucksters?

00:00:14Marc:What's happening?

00:00:14Marc:I'm Mark Maron.

00:00:15Marc:This is my podcast.

00:00:17Marc:Welcome to it.

00:00:18Marc:It's called WTF.

00:00:20Marc:How are you?

00:00:21Marc:Everything alright?

00:00:22Marc:Back from New York City.

00:00:24Marc:And what a fucking amazing trip.

00:00:25Marc:I've been away for three weeks.

00:00:27Marc:I don't know if you folks have been keeping up, but I'll give you some updates.

00:00:30Marc:By the way, D.L.

00:00:31Marc:Hughley is on the show today.

00:00:33Marc:He's a guy that I've been wanting to talk to for years, actually.

00:00:36Marc:For years, I had a mild obsession with his very first HBO half hour because I think we did him around the same time.

00:00:43Marc:We talk a bit about it, but I always wanted to interview him for years and it just never happened.

00:00:47Marc:It almost happened a lot and we had a lovely conversation.

00:00:51Marc:So he's going to be here momentarily.

00:00:54Marc:Also, yes, I did see it.

00:00:55Marc:Yes, I heard about it.

00:00:56Marc:I did see it.

00:00:57Marc:What am I talking about to those of you who who don't know what I'm talking about?

00:01:02Marc:Well, I'll tell you.

00:01:05Marc:Alex Moffat on SNL did me as a character in a sketch.

00:01:11Marc:It was the potty awards, the podcast awards.

00:01:14Marc:So they took the piss out of podcasting, but I think it had it coming.

00:01:17Marc:I have no real issue with that.

00:01:20Marc:I thought it was funny.

00:01:21Marc:I thought it was inside in a way.

00:01:23Marc:And then he came out and did me.

00:01:25Marc:And

00:01:26Marc:I got to be honest with you.

00:01:27Marc:I was very flattered.

00:01:29Marc:I'm not easy to do.

00:01:31Marc:I know that I don't have enough.

00:01:32Marc:I don't think I have enough quirks or ticks or maybe I don't.

00:01:35Marc:James Adobian does a pretty good me.

00:01:37Marc:But Alex Moffat did a very.

00:01:39Marc:What impressed me was I feel like in the sketch, he seemed to he put some effort into it in the sense that, like, I think he got my walk right.

00:01:48Marc:You know, it looked like he put some effort, he put some time into getting me right.

00:01:53Marc:And, you know, I'm barely doing that.

00:01:55Marc:I mean, I'm still doing that myself.

00:01:57Marc:I'm almost there on some days.

00:01:58Marc:I almost get me right.

00:02:00Marc:I thought he got the voice right, the intonation right.

00:02:02Marc:Very flattering.

00:02:03Marc:And I got to say, you know, I always wanted to be on SNL and that might be it.

00:02:07Marc:I might have just gotten on SNL by proxy through the character of me played by Alex Moffat.

00:02:16Marc:I'd like to thank him for doing that.

00:02:18Marc:It was something.

00:02:19Marc:And it was good.

00:02:20Marc:I was proud somehow that I had made it to some level enough to be mocked on SNL as me.

00:02:32Marc:That I am enough of a something to where they were like, this will be funny if we just do an impression of him.

00:02:39Marc:I'm a him that they can do an impression of.

00:02:42Marc:That was very exciting.

00:02:43Marc:Is that okay?

00:02:43Marc:Is that all right?

00:02:44Marc:I was excited by it.

00:02:46Marc:I thought he did a good job.

00:02:48Marc:Let's go through it.

00:02:50Marc:Let's have at it.

00:02:50Marc:I was sort of going over my trip to New York, and aside from the terror and apocalyptic fires that are going on here in Los Angeles, which happened over the last few days, which are just terrifying, there's always that terror of fire here, and I definitely feel...

00:03:09Marc:horrible for all the people that are losing their homes the people lost people people lost animals and it's just uh it's just a tinderbox out here and there's always this threat of fire and there always seems to be a fire going on and it's awful i i i just want to acknowledge that um we're going through a lot out here a lot of people are in a lot of a lot of trouble and need a lot of help and the firefighters have been amazing

00:03:35Marc:firefighters not unlike uh the vets and soldiers and people in the military today is their day as well and uh thank you thank you for uh for protecting us saving lives and uh and doing what you do we appreciate it

00:03:53Marc:That said, I'm back in L.A.

00:03:56Marc:My house is OK.

00:03:57Marc:Thank you for asking.

00:03:58Marc:I'm not sure the air is OK.

00:04:00Marc:But if that's the worst that I have to deal with is, you know, I might not be able to run for a week or so.

00:04:04Marc:Then I'm very grateful today.

00:04:07Marc:I'm recording this on Sunday.

00:04:09Marc:So last night I did the Beacon Theater.

00:04:11Marc:But let's back it up because I was really looking at.

00:04:14Marc:You know, what kind of what did I do?

00:04:16Marc:Because I was busy the whole time and it was sort of insane what I did.

00:04:20Marc:I mean, for the for the as most, you know, I did a scene in the or two in the Joker movie and that went well.

00:04:26Marc:And then I went down to Boston and did a couple of scenes in the new Mark Wahlberg film that's being shot called Wonderland.

00:04:32Marc:My buddy Pete Berg directed that.

00:04:35Marc:But also on top of that, you know, I did interviews.

00:04:38Marc:I went to see.

00:04:40Marc:Aaron Sorkin's To Kill a Mockingbird in previews, because I talked to Aaron Sorkin.

00:04:45Marc:I talked to Jeff Daniels, who plays Atticus Finch in the show.

00:04:49Marc:It was spectacular to go to the theater to see something that has been re-thunk, but not...

00:04:55Marc:butchered in any way, to see something that was written when it was written and to feel how relevant and how much it resonates with the themes of horrendous racism.

00:05:07Marc:And it actually was able to bring some humanity to it in a way that theater is the only thing that can do that.

00:05:16Marc:And I thought it was a tremendous effort.

00:05:19Marc:And it was great talking to Aaron and Jeff.

00:05:22Marc:You'll get to hear those soon.

00:05:24Marc:I also was able to go to see a preview of the new Andy Warhol show at the Whitney crammed in that.

00:05:30Marc:And it's it's really, you know, I guess I get jaded.

00:05:33Marc:Maybe I don't always understand my partner.

00:05:36Marc:Am I using that word now?

00:05:39Marc:My partner, Sarah, the painter is a painter.

00:05:41Marc:So it's always a little intimidating to go to museums with Sarah.

00:05:44Marc:Because, well, I am what I am.

00:05:47Marc:You know, she's in it.

00:05:49Marc:You know, I'm out of it, but I appreciate it the best I can.

00:05:52Marc:And I think sometimes it's good for here to hear a layman's point of view.

00:05:56Marc:Just a guy looking at art with some relative sophistication, some intellect, but not a lot of training and not a lot of sense of the history or the context or necessarily, you know, what is being shown here.

00:06:09Marc:But Warhol I can handle.

00:06:11Marc:Warhol is right there.

00:06:12Marc:It's all right up front.

00:06:13Marc:You know, you know what he stood for.

00:06:15Marc:You know where he came from.

00:06:16Marc:You know what he did.

00:06:16Marc:You know how he changed things.

00:06:18Marc:And it was spectacular.

00:06:19Marc:My point was that you go to the Whitney, you go see a Warhol.

00:06:23Marc:It's basically a career show, a career retrospective to some degree.

00:06:27Marc:And you think you've seen all that stuff.

00:06:29Marc:If you've been going to art since you were a kid, which I have going to see art, you think like, well, what, you know, more Warhol, but I'll tell you, man, it was curated beautifully.

00:06:38Marc:They had a lot of early stuff that I'd never seen before.

00:06:41Marc:Uh, and they had, and just the selections they made in the way they hung the show was, uh, was tremendous.

00:06:47Marc:And like, it was exciting, man.

00:06:49Marc:I have not, I mean, I always, I'm always excited to go when I go to see art, but like it, like I got there and I was elated.

00:06:56Marc:I was like, wow, this is really put together nicely.

00:06:59Marc:And there was some stuff I'd never seen before.

00:07:03Marc:Some stuff that really shows the depth of what he was capable of color wise and conceptually.

00:07:08Marc:It was just tremendous.

00:07:11Marc:And then I went to see... I went to the Guggenheim to see the Hilma of Klint, I believe, is how you pronounce it.

00:07:21Marc:I really didn't know anything about her until Sarah introduced me to her.

00:07:23Marc:She was an artist that worked in... Goddamn, where was it?

00:07:28Marc:Was it Sweden, I hope?

00:07:30Marc:See, like, this is where the conversation...

00:07:33Marc:falls off a little bit uh she was a part of a a group of women that were were students of a spiritual philosophical society she was initially a realist and a nature painter plants bugs birds but then she just broke it open and went on this spiritual quest to sort of like through color and line

00:07:57Marc:And abstraction sort of solved some of the the bigger, you know, questions about the mystical realm.

00:08:06Marc:And and because of that was one of the founders, if that's a way to put it, or one of the inspirations for the future of abstract painting.

00:08:15Marc:And she went relatively unrecognized, as many women do in the painting racket for many years.

00:08:20Marc:And now there's a tremendous retrospective of her work at the Guggenheim.

00:08:24Marc:And that was that was mind blowing.

00:08:26Marc:It's great.

00:08:27Marc:If you go to New York, I highly recommend it.

00:08:29Marc:It was the peak of fall.

00:08:30Marc:It was just am I sounding too chipper?

00:08:33Marc:I know the world is still ending, but, you know, look, I. OK, but there was a great moment, though.

00:08:41Marc:There was a great moment.

00:08:43Marc:And I have to speak as a middle aged man at some point, middle aged men.

00:08:47Marc:Some of us are doing our best.

00:08:49Marc:We're doing our best to to stay woke to kind of like, you know, make the adjustments necessary to be respectful of the space that we all occupy together.

00:08:58Marc:And there was a moment that that Sarah kind of witnessed and shared with me.

00:09:04Marc:At the Hilma of Clint show where she was walking past a man and a woman.

00:09:12Marc:The woman was, you know, slightly ahead of the man and the man was was irate.

00:09:17Marc:And this is what she heard him say.

00:09:19Marc:The man.

00:09:21Marc:I don't like art.

00:09:22Marc:I'm here with you trying to be open.

00:09:26Marc:You hear that tone?

00:09:26Marc:I don't like art.

00:09:28Marc:I'm here with you trying to be open.

00:09:30Marc:We don't know what led up to that.

00:09:31Marc:We don't know how long that tone had happened before.

00:09:34Marc:But if you hear that tone, in particular that tone, and especially with that subject matter, that's a man trying.

00:09:41Marc:And, you know, sometimes men are stubborn, but, you know, and sometimes we don't, especially middle aged men, we don't make the adjustments as smoothly as we should.

00:09:52Marc:But I don't I don't I'm listening.

00:09:55Marc:I'm trying to listen.

00:09:56Marc:I don't want to.

00:09:57Marc:OK, I'm sorry.

00:09:59Marc:You know that that tone is that's not an abusive tone.

00:10:02Marc:That's a that's a man struggling to be woke.

00:10:05Marc:So recognize that tone.

00:10:07Marc:I'm not saying I'm not I'm not mansplaining.

00:10:10Marc:I'm not trying to.

00:10:11Marc:I think that Sarah's first response was like, oh, God, why did she bring that guy?

00:10:15Marc:And my thought when she told me about that, my response was like, he's trying.

00:10:19Marc:He's he's trying.

00:10:21Marc:That's the sound of a man trying.

00:10:25Marc:So this brings us up to the other night to Beacon Theater.

00:10:28Marc:And I, you know, look, I don't know.

00:10:31Marc:Like recently I've been sort of obsessing, obsessing over my last performance in New York, my last big one, the Carnegie Hall show.

00:10:41Marc:I've been sort of hard on myself in retrospect that I wasn't prepared enough that I I felt a little shaky and I didn't feel like I was as grounded as I needed to be.

00:10:50Marc:I was very hard on myself.

00:10:51Marc:So heading into the Beacon Theater, which seated about twenty five hundred, we had almost almost about twenty five hundred in there, which is big for me.

00:10:59Marc:It's about the that's that's about that's a big night for me.

00:11:03Marc:a local comic in New York.

00:11:05Marc:Dina Hashem opened for me.

00:11:07Marc:She did a great job.

00:11:08Marc:I just didn't know what was gonna happen.

00:11:09Marc:But it was beautiful because I had to be out of there because Tracy Morgan was the show after mine.

00:11:13Marc:So I only had, I had an hour 15 max.

00:11:16Marc:So I couldn't fucking noodle on no matter how it was doing.

00:11:18Marc:I had to get out.

00:11:20Marc:So it tightened me up.

00:11:21Marc:And I don't know why I make myself crazy.

00:11:24Marc:Maybe it's just part of my process, but I got out there and it was great right from the beginning.

00:11:29Marc:It was a great crowd.

00:11:30Marc:It was a great room.

00:11:31Marc:It's a beautiful theater.

00:11:32Marc:It was actually productive because I'm working through bits and I tried some new stuff that I put together that morning, which I always seem to do when I'm up against the wall and I'm doing a big show.

00:11:42Marc:If I just put myself out there and I risk failing or I risk taking out some new bits out there or I frame it a different way,

00:11:50Marc:That makes it very immediate and very exciting.

00:11:53Marc:And I and I I come out of it thinking I came out of it thinking like I see a form to this.

00:11:57Marc:So as this hour evolves, as we move towards another special, I did see a way that I could build something that is a unified hour, which is what I've sort of been doing the last couple of specials I did.

00:12:09Marc:So it was great.

00:12:09Marc:And I was glad people came out and witnessed that.

00:12:11Marc:My mommy was there.

00:12:13Marc:My aunt Bobby was there.

00:12:15Marc:All my my Aunt Linda, my Uncle Bill was there.

00:12:17Marc:Brendan McDonald came.

00:12:19Marc:Sarah was there.

00:12:21Marc:Matt Sweeney was there.

00:12:22Marc:Sam Lipsight was there.

00:12:23Marc:A lot of Marin cousins that I never see were there.

00:12:27Marc:My grandma Goldie's neighbor, Carrie Newark and his family were there.

00:12:31Marc:But thank you for coming out.

00:12:32Marc:It went great.

00:12:33Marc:And the new T-shirts sold very well.

00:12:36Marc:That new shirt, the new WTF shirt that was available for people at the Beacon Theater is now officially on sale for the general public.

00:12:45Marc:This is the shirt designed by Aaron Draplin, and it's great.

00:12:48Marc:It's a great shirt.

00:12:49Marc:So go check it out and get yourself one or buy one as a holiday gift for somebody.

00:12:54Marc:It's at podswag.com slash WTF.

00:12:58Marc:P-O-D-S-W-A-G dot com slash WTF.

00:13:01Marc:Or just click on the merch link at WTFpod.com.

00:13:06Marc:Okay?

00:13:07Marc:Good shirt, and I'm going to look like that shirt again, at least for a couple weeks, starting tonight.

00:13:12Marc:I'm shaving the fucking beard off, folks.

00:13:15Marc:Great trip to New York.

00:13:16Marc:Happy to be home.

00:13:17Marc:Thank you all for everything.

00:13:20Marc:D.L.

00:13:20Marc:Hughley is here.

00:13:21Marc:And D.L.

00:13:24Marc:A lot of respect for this guy.

00:13:25Marc:Like him as a comic.

00:13:27Marc:Like him on the radio.

00:13:28Marc:Like his TV show.

00:13:29Marc:I always wanted to talk to him.

00:13:30Marc:It was a thrill for me to have him here.

00:13:33Marc:His Netflix special D.L.

00:13:34Marc:Hughley Contrarian is now available to stream.

00:13:37Marc:His most recent book How Not to Get Shot and Other Advice from White People is available wherever you get books.

00:13:44Marc:And this is me.

00:13:46Marc:and uh veteran comic not a veteran but uh he's he's a he's a he's a lifer like myself uh me and D.L.

00:13:55Marc:Hughley talking

00:14:04Marc:On your radio show, how much do you go, do you just talk alone?

00:14:08Marc:Are you always in there with somebody?

00:14:10Marc:Uh-huh.

00:14:10Marc:Yeah?

00:14:10Marc:But it's more with the rest of the world, so it's, you know, the R&B format.

00:14:14Guest:So we have... I got all that forward momentum, teasing shit.

00:14:18Guest:We'll be back.

00:14:18Guest:You still got more with... Tears music.

00:14:20Guest:Yeah.

00:14:21Guest:And then everybody wants you to sell their pizza, their books.

00:14:24Guest:Yeah.

00:14:25Guest:So there's that.

00:14:25Guest:And then, you know, Flavors wants you to feature.

00:14:28Guest:So it's more cluttered.

00:14:30Marc:Yeah.

00:14:31Marc:But do they come in and, like, I remember, because I like doing radio.

00:14:34Marc:I started, the way I got used to this was I was on Air America for a year and a half.

00:14:38Marc:I know that.

00:14:39Guest:Yeah.

00:14:40Marc:And, you know, when you first start doing it, when you got to do a morning show and you got to wake up and PX is live, it's fucking exciting, man.

00:14:46Guest:Well, except when you've been out all night.

00:14:49Guest:I did a radio show for a long time.

00:14:53Guest:I was beyond my out all night days.

00:14:56Guest:No, no.

00:14:57Guest:You don't know whether you're going to the radio station or going.

00:15:00Guest:I don't think I'll have breakfast at the radio because I've been out so long.

00:15:03Guest:But I love the afternoons.

00:15:05Guest:I love doing that.

00:15:06Guest:I love the medium of radio.

00:15:07Marc:Yeah, me too.

00:15:08Marc:What do you do?

00:15:08Guest:Three to what?

00:15:09Guest:Do you do three?

00:15:10Guest:What time do you start?

00:15:11Guest:Well, we start, well, the show is from three to seven.

00:15:14Guest:But, you know, we're in the West.

00:15:15Guest:When I'm here, it's 12 to four.

00:15:17Marc:But, like, so do you live here?

00:15:19Marc:I live here in New York.

00:15:20Marc:And New York.

00:15:21Marc:And so what's the deal on that?

00:15:23Guest:How often do you spend in New York?

00:15:24Guest:I'll finish this, and I'll go home and pack, and I'll be in New York for the week.

00:15:29Guest:And then I'll be to Portland.

00:15:30Guest:Yeah.

00:15:31Guest:Then I'll come back.

00:15:32Guest:Portland for a show?

00:15:33Guest:Portland.

00:15:34Guest:We're doing the comedy get down with me and George and Sid.

00:15:37Guest:George.

00:15:38Guest:Lopez.

00:15:38Guest:Oh, really?

00:15:39Guest:Oh, you're touring with that?

00:15:40Guest:Yeah.

00:15:41Guest:And Cedric?

00:15:41Guest:And Cedric and Eddie Griffin.

00:15:43Guest:Holy shit.

00:15:44Guest:You got Eddie out?

00:15:46Guest:Yep.

00:15:46Guest:And that's what everybody said.

00:15:49Guest:Everybody said.

00:15:50Guest:You managed to get Eddie out?

00:15:52Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:15:53Guest:Where was he hiding?

00:15:54Guest:He was hiding in Vegas.

00:15:56Guest:He plays a lot of gigs.

00:15:58Guest:He got that residency down in Vegas.

00:16:00Guest:He does?

00:16:01Guest:He was at the Rio.

00:16:01Guest:Now he's moved.

00:16:02Guest:And that's what he just stays there most of the year?

00:16:04Guest:Yeah, but he plays there, I guess, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and then he gigs on the weekend.

00:16:11Marc:Oh, so he's been working.

00:16:12Marc:A ton.

00:16:13Marc:That's the thing you don't realize about people in our job.

00:16:16Marc:It's like you don't see someone for a while.

00:16:18Guest:You think they ain't doing that.

00:16:18Marc:Yeah, you don't assume the best.

00:16:20Marc:Yeah.

00:16:20Marc:He's in Tacoma.

00:16:22Marc:I don't know what that's all about.

00:16:23Marc:I didn't ask him anything else.

00:16:25Marc:Didn't seem like he was doing comedy.

00:16:27Marc:So that means you go back and forth every week.

00:16:31Guest:I'm on the road every... But you do the show mostly in New York live.

00:16:37Guest:It's really 50-50 because I did the show Friday from Cincinnati because I had a gig there.

00:16:43Guest:So you just go into the studio, do ISDN line?

00:16:45Guest:Yep.

00:16:45Guest:They set you up?

00:16:46Marc:Set you up.

00:16:47Marc:And is it national, the show?

00:16:49Guest:Yeah, we're in 70s somewhere.

00:16:51Guest:We're in New York, Baltimore, Detroit.

00:16:53Guest:How's it doing?

00:16:54Guest:Atlanta, really good.

00:16:55Guest:Yeah?

00:16:56Guest:We're pretty close to the number one urban syndicated show in the country.

00:17:00Guest:Oh, that's great.

00:17:00Guest:Who's ahead of you?

00:17:01Guest:I don't know.

00:17:02Guest:When I say pretty close because it vacillates every week, but I never, let's just say I look down, I don't look up.

00:17:09Marc:Good, good.

00:17:10Marc:So I was trying to think like, I've been trying to get you on the show for a long time.

00:17:13Marc:Right, right.

00:17:13Marc:But I remember the thing that I was like, I remember from way back.

00:17:16Marc:Now, am I mistaken or did you do a half hour, HBO half hour?

00:17:21Guest:Sure.

00:17:21Guest:Like around the time I did?

00:17:22Guest:Yeah, you and Bill Maher, it was me, you, Bill Maher,

00:17:27Guest:I did it at the Fillmore, though.

00:17:28Guest:Yeah, you did.

00:17:29Marc:Yeah, and I don't know if you were on my shooting, but it was around the same time, like 95?

00:17:35Marc:Well, it was a little earlier for me.

00:17:36Marc:Right, you were the ones before me.

00:17:38Marc:Before you guys, right.

00:17:39Marc:So, like, because I remember seeing that, and just I never forget that that's especially yours.

00:17:45Marc:Because, like, I was watching you, and you looked like you were furious.

00:17:51Guest:Right, and you know what's so funny?

00:17:53Guest:When I look back at my...

00:17:57Guest:You know, earlier stuff, like I hardly ever, like if this comes on or somebody mentions it, it was really, because I came out of a different experience.

00:18:07Guest:Yeah.

00:18:07Guest:So like I worked really, you know, the Chitlin Circus, so you would be working these nightclubs.

00:18:13Guest:But where'd you start?

00:18:14Guest:Here in Los Angeles.

00:18:15Marc:But you grew up here.

00:18:16Guest:I grew up here.

00:18:16Guest:I didn't even know that.

00:18:17Guest:I grew up here.

00:18:18Guest:Until this morning.

00:18:19Guest:Yeah, I grew up here.

00:18:20Guest:And so when I, when I want to, we do joints like the Page Four or the Total Experience or the Regency West.

00:18:25Guest:So they were really just these fucking nightclubs.

00:18:28Guest:Here.

00:18:29Guest:That had to clean drinks or whatever.

00:18:31Guest:Yeah.

00:18:32Guest:And so, because at that time you had to have the drinks off the floor at,

00:18:35Guest:By 2 o'clock, so at 1.30, they would let comics go up.

00:18:39Guest:And so you had to shout and shit and, you know.

00:18:42Guest:At 1.30?

00:18:42Guest:1.30, so the comics would go to the Golden Tail.

00:18:45Guest:To get people out?

00:18:46Guest:So they could clean the drinks up.

00:18:48Guest:No shit.

00:18:48Guest:They could still stay.

00:18:49Guest:They just couldn't have liquor out.

00:18:51Guest:So what part of town did you grow up in?

00:18:52Guest:I grew up on 135th and Avalon.

00:18:54Guest:Yeah?

00:18:55Guest:I don't know that neighborhood.

00:18:56Guest:It's South Central.

00:18:57Guest:It's like, if you hit a motherfucker, if you threw a rock from my house, you hit a nigga that lived in County.

00:19:01Guest:That's what happened.

00:19:02Guest:Yeah.

00:19:03Guest:Yeah, so we were in the unincorporated part of Los Angeles.

00:19:07Guest:So I lived on this side, that was LA, and across the street was County.

00:19:10Guest:What does unincorporated mean?

00:19:11Guest:Nobody wants it.

00:19:12Guest:It was called the Unincorporated.

00:19:16Guest:It was like it was Los Angeles, Compton and Gardena.

00:19:20Guest:It's like if you go, if you look on the map, it's like Rosecrans and Avalon and, you know, across this way is Gardena, across this way is Compton.

00:19:28Guest:Yeah.

00:19:29Guest:So it's really it didn't belong to anybody.

00:19:30Guest:It's no man's land.

00:19:31Marc:So we're, like, almost exactly the same age, give or take a few months.

00:19:35Marc:Born in 1963.

00:19:36Marc:So, like, you grew up through a lot of shit in that neighborhood.

00:19:40Marc:Yeah, of course.

00:19:41Guest:But it didn't... I don't know that it felt like anything.

00:19:43Guest:Right, because it was just... It didn't feel like... It was just your life.

00:19:45Guest:Like, when I watch movies or read stuff about it, I go, damn, that was fucked up.

00:19:50Guest:I don't know how we made it.

00:19:51Guest:How did anybody make it?

00:19:51Guest:But it didn't ever feel like that with me.

00:19:54Guest:It never felt like... It's not something that I...

00:19:57Guest:I'm not overly nostalgic about it, but I have a lot of pleasant memories.

00:20:01Guest:Yeah?

00:20:02Marc:But do you remember it like at any point getting bad or scary or fucked up?

00:20:09Guest:It was never scary to me when I was living there.

00:20:12Guest:When you were little?

00:20:12Guest:When I was living there, but when I got married, like I got married at like 21, 20 years old.

00:20:18Guest:Still married to the same person?

00:20:19Guest:Yep, I still am.

00:20:20Guest:And when I would go back, because you were in it, so I would go back and I was like, shit, this is pretty goddamn scary.

00:20:27Guest:Once that tether broke and you had seen other things, because I had virtually nothing to compare it to.

00:20:37Guest:Did you stay there your whole childhood?

00:20:39Guest:Yeah, I stayed there my whole childhood.

00:20:41Guest:I left when I was like 17.

00:20:43Marc:So what was the family situation?

00:20:45Marc:How many brothers and sisters?

00:20:47Guest:I have two sisters and one brother.

00:20:50Guest:Your folks still around?

00:20:52Guest:My old man just went about a month and a half ago.

00:20:56Guest:Really?

00:20:56Guest:Yes.

00:20:57Guest:And it was funny because- Good run?

00:20:59Guest:He had a good run.

00:21:00Guest:Yeah.

00:21:00Guest:You know, that's what I told myself because I'm like, I like to think I'm a pretty pragmatic guy, but it was rougher than I thought it would be.

00:21:07Guest:Yeah, of course.

00:21:08Guest:Yeah, I was like, I thought, hey man, I've seen a lot of shit and he's had a good run.

00:21:14Guest:How old was he?

00:21:14Guest:84.

00:21:16Guest:Yeah.

00:21:17Guest:84.

00:21:17Guest:But when you're an old man, like women say dumb, like I don't think they, intentionally, but they have a different motivation.

00:21:24Guest:Like they, you should be there.

00:21:26Guest:Right.

00:21:26Guest:When he, he'll know you're there.

00:21:28Guest:He didn't, he didn't know he was there.

00:21:30Guest:He didn't.

00:21:31Guest:Because he was just, he didn't know.

00:21:33Guest:But it was so funny because we.

00:21:35Guest:What'd he have?

00:21:36Guest:He had stage four lung cancer.

00:21:38Guest:So it was that whole, that was a horrible thing to.

00:21:41Guest:Yeah.

00:21:41Guest:He didn't know because he was on morphine?

00:21:43Guest:He was on everything.

00:21:45Guest:The best moments I've ever had with my father was when he was on oxygen and couldn't talk back.

00:21:52Guest:It's amazing the shit you can get off your chest when a motherfucker can't say nothing back.

00:21:56Guest:Did you?

00:21:57Guest:Did you get some shit solved?

00:21:58Guest:I got, you know, how much I loved him and how much, and I just, I wish he had let me be close to him.

00:22:02Guest:And he takes his mask off and he says, you know, I just wasn't from that generation.

00:22:07Guest:He was lucid and he said, I wasn't from that generation.

00:22:09Guest:I'm amazed at how much you've accomplished.

00:22:11Guest:And I'm not, he said, I'm just so proud of you.

00:22:14Guest:And then my brother walked in and go, wait a minute, I was talking to that motherfucker.

00:22:16Guest:Who are you?

00:22:17Guest:But it was because we came from a very religious family.

00:22:24Guest:I think black people are scared not to believe in God.

00:22:28Guest:Because they go, we believe in God and look how shittily we're treated now.

00:22:33Guest:What if we didn't believe in him?

00:22:35Marc:That's right.

00:22:36Marc:I imagine that's what religion is for.

00:22:39Marc:It's what it's used for.

00:22:41Marc:Do you go to church now?

00:22:42Marc:No.

00:22:43Guest:I mean, it was always weird to me because the same people that gave you Jesus gave you niggas.

00:22:46Guest:So it wasn't really, like, way back.

00:22:50Guest:Right.

00:22:50Guest:I don't know.

00:22:52Guest:Like, just even the story that you hear about don't make sense.

00:22:56Guest:Like, if you're like, ooh, Santa rived you.

00:22:58Guest:What do you want, little slave boy, my mother back?

00:23:00Guest:I'd like my mother back.

00:23:02Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:23:03Guest:I'd like my mother back and my father to have his foot back.

00:23:05Guest:So you couldn't.

00:23:06Guest:And my real name, please.

00:23:10Guest:Right, and my real name and some semblance of where I came from.

00:23:12Guest:That's it.

00:23:13Guest:I mean, 23 and me before it happened.

00:23:15Guest:Yeah, right.

00:23:15Guest:So in the end, you know, because I think one of the great things about religion is that you get to bullshit yourself.

00:23:24Guest:You get to bullshit yourself.

00:23:26Guest:I know, I know, I know.

00:23:27Guest:I talk about it a lot lately.

00:23:28Guest:And I have, like, that's probably why I'm not, because I have a diminished capacity of the ability to bullshit myself.

00:23:38Guest:So they are, my father has just left.

00:23:40Guest:We all had to be in there.

00:23:42Guest:Because it was weird, because my father, my mother's been trying to kill my father for 58 years, so I didn't think.

00:23:46Guest:Yeah, slowly.

00:23:47Guest:I thought he was... He made it this long.

00:23:51Guest:Yeah, I thought she wouldn't be sad, but she calls us.

00:23:53Guest:Oh, they're not together?

00:23:55Guest:Yeah, they were together.

00:23:56Guest:Or as much as you can be together when you're trying to kill somebody.

00:23:59Guest:They don't have a love, like a Valentine's Day.

00:24:00Guest:They have a happy toleration day card.

00:24:02Guest:Always?

00:24:03Guest:Yeah.

00:24:04Guest:I don't think they ever...

00:24:05Guest:It's just so weird, the things you find out about your family.

00:24:09Guest:As they get older?

00:24:10Guest:Yeah, and the end is near, and how kind they are.

00:24:13Guest:Oh, my God.

00:24:13Guest:My dad tells me shit.

00:24:15Guest:I'm like, you know, I don't need this.

00:24:16Guest:Yeah, I don't need this.

00:24:17Guest:I can live without this.

00:24:19Guest:But he was dying, and she goes, come on in.

00:24:23Guest:Your father is getting ready to go.

00:24:25Guest:And she tells him, she said, Charlie, you don't have to wait.

00:24:28Guest:You've done your job.

00:24:29Guest:I got it from here.

00:24:30Guest:And that motherfucker took two breaths and died.

00:24:32Guest:I said, gosh.

00:24:32Guest:Well, your mother said I got to go.

00:24:33Guest:So I said, this dude died on command.

00:24:37Guest:What type of shit is that?

00:24:38Guest:He listens to her.

00:24:40Guest:He listens.

00:24:42Guest:So when everybody's in the room and they're all very religious and they go to church and they believe and they're like, we're going to see you again, daddy.

00:24:48Guest:So when they all walked out, I went, hey man, you know this is it for us.

00:24:52Guest:We going in different directions.

00:24:54Guest:You going up, I'm going down.

00:24:55Guest:But I'm going to miss you, motherfucker.

00:24:57Guest:Did you say that?

00:24:57Guest:I swear.

00:24:59Guest:We going in different directions.

00:25:00Guest:We'll never see each other again.

00:25:01Guest:I've never seen anyone die.

00:25:02Guest:Yeah.

00:25:03Guest:Oh, man.

00:25:03Guest:Don't.

00:25:04Guest:Don't.

00:25:05Guest:Was that the first time?

00:25:06Guest:The first time that way.

00:25:07Guest:Yeah.

00:25:08Guest:Not the first time, you know, in life, but the first time that way.

00:25:10Guest:You saw other people die?

00:25:11Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:25:12Guest:Where?

00:25:12Guest:On the streets?

00:25:13Guest:I saw two people die when I was a kid.

00:25:14Guest:Yeah.

00:25:15Guest:One had a motorcycle accident, a minibike.

00:25:17Guest:You remember those little minibikes?

00:25:18Guest:Yeah, sure.

00:25:18Guest:The one they shouldn't have given us?

00:25:20Guest:Right.

00:25:21Marc:They were never allowed to happen now.

00:25:23Marc:No way.

00:25:23Marc:We can't even have those fucking scooters.

00:25:25Marc:No way.

00:25:26Marc:I see grownups on those scooters.

00:25:27Guest:Yeah.

00:25:27Marc:You're going to break, man.

00:25:28Marc:We're breakable.

00:25:30Marc:Don't think that you can do that shit.

00:25:31Guest:And cities rent them now.

00:25:32Guest:All over the place.

00:25:33Guest:Yeah.

00:25:34Guest:So this kid was on a minibike and he hit a wall and his brain came out.

00:25:38Guest:Oh, come on, man.

00:25:39Guest:I'm like, wow.

00:25:41Guest:We were kids.

00:25:42Guest:And then I watched a kid named Bradley get shot.

00:25:44Guest:That was the two times.

00:25:46Guest:A kid you knew?

00:25:48Guest:Yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:25:49Guest:When you were older?

00:25:50Guest:He was little.

00:25:50Guest:No, I was in the seventh or eighth grade.

00:25:52Guest:Yeah.

00:25:53Guest:So he was in the ninth or tenth grade.

00:25:56Guest:Oh, and he got shot in some bullshit?

00:25:57Guest:He was a Boy Scout.

00:26:00Guest:And so these cats from my neighborhood.

00:26:02Guest:Heavy Boy Scouts.

00:26:03Guest:Yeah.

00:26:04Guest:They're armed in your neighborhood.

00:26:06Guest:But he was, he was like one of those kids, like every neighborhood, no matter how rough has a kid that has a different light.

00:26:12Guest:Good kid.

00:26:12Guest:Yeah.

00:26:13Guest:He was a good, like he wasn't, he didn't succumb to the, so he did all the shit that you were supposed to do.

00:26:17Guest:Right.

00:26:17Guest:Like a wee below and a boy.

00:26:19Guest:Oh yeah.

00:26:19Marc:Went all through it.

00:26:20Marc:Cub Scout, Boy Scout, wee below.

00:26:21Marc:And isn't there another one?

00:26:23Marc:Eagle Scout.

00:26:24Guest:Eagle, yeah.

00:26:25Guest:So he believed in all the outfits.

00:26:27Guest:Yeah, he had them all.

00:26:28Guest:And he was... Here's the thing about a dude like that.

00:26:32Guest:He was conscientious, but he was so cool, everybody dug him.

00:26:35Guest:Yeah.

00:26:36Guest:So, like, people didn't think he was a dick.

00:26:38Guest:And one fucker just killed him?

00:26:39Guest:Well, these dudes had gotten to it with some other dudes from another neighborhood.

00:26:43Guest:Yeah.

00:26:44Guest:And when they drove up, the fight had happened on a weekend, and when they drove up...

00:26:48Guest:they knew and ran.

00:26:50Guest:And he's like, I ain't in this shit.

00:26:52Guest:And they shot him.

00:26:53Guest:On purpose.

00:26:55Guest:It was the first time I conceptualized how you could hate somebody just from a different neighborhood.

00:27:05Guest:That notion made me hate those cats from those neighborhoods

00:27:09Guest:It's something you would never do now because you're older and you have a continuing experience.

00:27:14Marc:But our politics is driven by it now.

00:27:15Marc:Yeah, it is.

00:27:17Marc:It's the same shit.

00:27:19Guest:It really is.

00:27:19Guest:It's tribal shit.

00:27:20Guest:Yep.

00:27:21Marc:The Hatfields and the McCoys all over you.

00:27:23Marc:Yeah, and it's so shallow.

00:27:25Marc:I can't.

00:27:26Marc:I mean, I know you're in it a lot.

00:27:30Marc:So you were able to stay out of trouble when you were a kid?

00:27:32Guest:No, I got into a lot of trouble.

00:27:34Guest:I did all the time.

00:27:35Guest:I never graduated from high school.

00:27:37Guest:I got kicked out of Gardena High, went to Lock High, kicked out of there in a week.

00:27:43Guest:For what?

00:27:45Guest:Fighting.

00:27:46Guest:Oh, really?

00:27:46Guest:You know, trying to be, you know, I never, I always, I didn't have a romantic notion of the way, of the cats I grew up with, and I don't have a romanticized notion of them, like I said earlier, but they taught me a lot about the world and

00:28:03Guest:even though it was a very small piece of the world, and a lot about who I am and what I could be.

00:28:09Guest:But I remember I would do all the shit they did, but I felt so bad for them.

00:28:14Guest:Oh, really?

00:28:14Guest:I did.

00:28:15Guest:Did you feel guilty, though?

00:28:16Guest:I didn't feel guilty, but I felt bad for them because I couldn't articulate it then, but I just knew something was different about me.

00:28:24Guest:Yeah.

00:28:25Guest:Like they had girls and money and respect.

00:28:28Guest:Yeah.

00:28:29Marc:They could do what they wanted to do.

00:28:30Marc:But you saw that it was like empty or that it wasn't all that it was.

00:28:34Guest:I don't know that I would say that because that's a little more introspective than I would have been.

00:28:38Guest:But I felt years later, I would realize I knew it wasn't I was I was being disingenuous that it was it was it wasn't wasn't you.

00:28:47Guest:It wasn't who I was.

00:28:48Guest:And the fact that that was who they were.

00:28:51Guest:Yeah.

00:28:51Guest:Made me feel bad for them.

00:28:53Marc:Interesting.

00:28:54Guest:They weren't pretending.

00:28:55Guest:That was it.

00:28:56Guest:This is the best it's ever going to be for them.

00:28:58Marc:Do you think that you were maybe, because we're comics and you're obviously a smart guy, that there's a sensitivity and a capacity for empathy that happens at a young age, and either we can handle it or we can't.

00:29:12Marc:Either we get defensive or we don't.

00:29:14Marc:But there's something, I'm just trying to picture, because I knew guys that you wanted to hang with,

00:29:19Marc:But you knew that like you weren't one of them.

00:29:21Marc:Yeah.

00:29:21Marc:Because like, but you didn't quite know what you were.

00:29:25Guest:I would have to say that's a close to, that's a close approximation because they, I love them.

00:29:31Guest:Yeah.

00:29:31Guest:I thought they were cool.

00:29:33Guest:Right.

00:29:33Guest:Yeah.

00:29:33Guest:And I didn't, I didn't think I was, like I didn't feel superior.

00:29:37Guest:Right.

00:29:38Guest:But I felt sorry.

00:29:40Marc:Right.

00:29:40Marc:But they gave you a definition too.

00:29:42Marc:Right.

00:29:42Marc:Because you're always like, I remember hanging out with badass dudes because sort of like, you know, I wasn't a pussy, but, you know, I wasn't doing that.

00:29:49Marc:Right.

00:29:49Marc:And they had a certain amount of confidence or a certain amount of cool.

00:29:52Marc:And they were like, come on, come with us.

00:29:54Marc:I'm like, yeah, okay.

00:29:55Marc:Right.

00:29:55Guest:Do I have to get new shoes?

00:29:57Guest:But they never, you know, one thing I will say.

00:29:59Guest:Yeah.

00:29:59Guest:They let me do some shit.

00:30:01Guest:But it was some shit they knew I couldn't do.

00:30:03Guest:Like it was some shit.

00:30:04Guest:Like when they went to go do dirt, it was like I couldn't go.

00:30:06Guest:What's that?

00:30:07Guest:Like if they went to go hurt somebody, I went to go do some shit that was heavy.

00:30:11Guest:Your heart wasn't that way.

00:30:13Guest:And I didn't know that.

00:30:15Guest:And so when you have this, and I didn't know that, but they did know it.

00:30:19Guest:So I guess I would say that as much as I knew about them, they knew about me.

00:30:22Guest:And when I hear, when I watch these...

00:30:26Guest:You know, if you hear the popularized notion of neighborhoods like that all across the country, they have reduced it to little more than animals who are scraping by to survive.

00:30:39Guest:And it really, I think that they have cheated themselves out of really great stories and really great touchstones and really great opportunities to know a lot about human behavior.

00:30:52Guest:How you may have the media and white culture represents it.

00:30:55Guest:Right.

00:30:56Guest:And I'm not saying it doesn't it doesn't have, you know, obviously it's a lot of it is rooted in whatever.

00:31:01Guest:Right.

00:31:01Guest:Well, the interesting thing.

00:31:02Marc:Yeah.

00:31:03Marc:It's a small part of the reality.

00:31:05Marc:The story you don't hear is is how those communities survive.

00:31:09Marc:Right.

00:31:10Marc:And how they people still live and exist and are safe in those communities because the communities take care of themselves.

00:31:16Guest:Right.

00:31:16Marc:That there's all these things put into place by the fucking community to try to save some people.

00:31:22Guest:Right.

00:31:22Guest:And it's like I say this and I literally mean the most dangerous place for black people to live is in white people's imaginations.

00:31:31Guest:Is that yours?

00:31:31Guest:Yeah, it's absolutely mine.

00:31:33Guest:The most dangerous place for black people to live is in white people's imagination.

00:31:36Guest:And it's because even statistically, people, society, these notions of us, they're bigger, stronger, faster, more impervious to pain, less moral, more amoral, more brutal.

00:31:47Guest:Right.

00:31:47Guest:And even worse now.

00:31:48Guest:Right.

00:31:48Guest:Culturally.

00:31:49Guest:Right.

00:31:49Guest:And so when you have that notion of like, I hope I never meet.

00:31:54Guest:I hope I never meet the black man that exists in their imagination.

00:31:58Guest:I hope I never do.

00:31:59Guest:Right.

00:32:01Guest:Just a monster.

00:32:02Guest:And that's all they do.

00:32:03Guest:And all they want to do is fuck their women and rob them.

00:32:09Guest:But everywhere we live, we had to live.

00:32:13Guest:Yeah.

00:32:13Guest:I was watching this thing on, and I forgot it was National Geographic.

00:32:17Guest:You know if you're not even trying to watch some shit come on, you go, God damn, that tiger looks hungry.

00:32:21Marc:And you start watching.

00:32:23Marc:I used to love doing that.

00:32:24Marc:I used to love just turning the TV on, flipping around, going, oh, what the fuck is this?

00:32:29Right.

00:32:29Guest:So they had this thing called the tiger widows of, so it was these tigers that fed off these, the women would go get bamboo or wood or, you know, they did, they, and everybody would go, why did they leave?

00:32:42Guest:Why didn't they leave?

00:32:43Guest:And it was because they couldn't.

00:32:44Guest:And that's really the same situation.

00:32:46Guest:A lot of people, people live where they have to live.

00:32:49Guest:Yeah.

00:32:49Guest:And everywhere we live is because somebody told us we had in large numbers, whether you're black, brown or whatever, in large numbers, society and policemen don't exist to keep us safe.

00:32:59Guest:They exist to keep us where we belong.

00:33:01Marc:Where you live.

00:33:02Guest:Yeah.

00:33:03Marc:Stay where you belong.

00:33:03Marc:Right.

00:33:04Marc:And that's the, the unincorporated part.

00:33:06Marc:It is.

00:33:07Marc:It is.

00:33:07Marc:And that's also where I imagine Jesus comes in on some level is that the, I imagine a lot of community outreach has to happen through the churches and through, but it's always, it's always been like, I used to get in trouble with,

00:33:19Guest:Because black people, by and large, people of color, by and large, have a pretty fervent belief in religion.

00:33:28Guest:But white people do, too, except they can have heaven while they're here.

00:33:32Guest:They're doing okay.

00:33:33Guest:Yeah, we got to die before we see Jesus.

00:33:36Guest:The only evidence I can see of Jesus is the idea...

00:33:39Guest:that people tell me, like, I'm alive and look what happened.

00:33:42Guest:I mean, like that.

00:33:44Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:33:44Marc:It's not a coincidence.

00:33:46Guest:It's because Jesus did it.

00:33:47Marc:I'm like, I don't know.

00:33:47Marc:If we really broke down the math, it does seem like it could be a coincidence.

00:33:51Marc:I'm pretty sure Jesus has never been to where I live.

00:33:54Guest:Like, I mean, I would, like, everywhere we live in large numbers, there's very little evidence of Jesus, except for churches.

00:34:01Guest:Yeah.

00:34:01Guest:But there's no, like, it's dirtier, it's more violent, it's more.

00:34:06Marc:Right, right.

00:34:06Marc:Well, that's why, I mean, well, that's, you know, the same place that the horrible image of the black man lives in the white people's minds.

00:34:14Marc:I mean, Jesus lives in the mind.

00:34:15Guest:Yeah, so it's pretty crowded.

00:34:18Guest:It's got to be pretty crowded.

00:34:20Guest:And now, one great thing about now, like being a comic and...

00:34:25Guest:Like this whole Nike thing.

00:34:27Guest:I think Nike and Obama occupy the same place in a lot of white men's mind.

00:34:34Guest:Because Nike needs niggas to live.

00:34:37Guest:They don't need a 40-year-old white dude.

00:34:40Guest:You're obsolete to them.

00:34:41Guest:You don't matter to them.

00:34:42Guest:They got, they got people, they got, they're a global company.

00:34:46Guest:Yeah.

00:34:46Guest:And most of the people who either buy their products or look up to people who buy their products are black or brown.

00:34:51Guest:Right.

00:34:52Guest:Yeah.

00:34:53Guest:Like you don't know a white dude.

00:34:54Guest:They put them on the map.

00:34:55Guest:They put them on the map and they sustain them.

00:34:57Guest:Yeah.

00:34:57Guest:Like you don't know a dude, the only white athlete you know with a shoe deal is Tom Brady and he wear Uggs.

00:35:02Guest:Yeah.

00:35:04Guest:And black people ain't waiting in the mall for the brand new Ugg to come out.

00:35:07Guest:It's true.

00:35:07Guest:And Nike's been doing that forever.

00:35:10Guest:They make special shoes for black people.

00:35:13Guest:Yes, they do.

00:35:13Guest:And they'll make three of the same kind.

00:35:16Guest:Exactly.

00:35:16Guest:And everybody sees them.

00:35:18Guest:Because Nike is the purveyors of culture.

00:35:24Guest:And generally people who wear those shoes and espouse this kind of vantage point.

00:35:29Guest:are people who are probably civilly, they're pretty active.

00:35:34Guest:They have a civil kind of core that runs.

00:35:36Guest:Yeah, so follow through the idea that Obama and Nike hold the same space.

00:35:41Guest:Nike doesn't need white people.

00:35:43Guest:They didn't need their consent or acceptance or participation.

00:35:48Guest:And neither did Obama.

00:35:50Guest:Obama won the presidency with the majority of white people going, we don't want you here.

00:35:53Guest:Yeah.

00:35:53Guest:And I think that those things remind them that they're not the only game in town.

00:35:58Guest:And it irks them.

00:36:00Guest:They when when white men say this shouldn't happen.

00:36:02Guest:Generally, that's what happens.

00:36:04Guest:Right.

00:36:04Guest:Yeah.

00:36:04Guest:But with Nike and Obama, they're like and those things are two recent notions that they've had to come to grips with.

00:36:11Marc:No, but just going off that recent news, I mean, what kind of fucking person is going to burn some shoes?

00:36:20Marc:Yeah.

00:36:21Marc:I mean, you must be shocked.

00:36:24Marc:Maybe you weren't, but it's like, how many of them are there?

00:36:28Marc:I mean, like the one thing is if we get through this shit, whatever the fuck we're going through right now, if we come out the other side, we're going to know exactly who those people are.

00:36:36Guest:But we always did.

00:36:37Guest:You always did.

00:36:38Guest:We always did.

00:36:38Guest:No, no, I'm not talking about in general.

00:36:39Guest:We always do.

00:36:40Guest:They get to pretend like they're not that way.

00:36:42Guest:Here's the thing.

00:36:43Guest:Why do hateful people always burn shit?

00:36:46Guest:If it's a flag or shoes.

00:36:48Guest:On either side.

00:36:49Guest:Why do y'all burn?

00:36:50Guest:What the fuck is the protesting burning shit up?

00:36:54Guest:But I just think that

00:36:56Guest:Mostly what I see is a spirit of fear, which is no matter what you call it.

00:37:02Guest:You could call it anger.

00:37:04Guest:You could call it.

00:37:05Guest:It's a spirit of fear is that that this place that we've always staked out that was always solely ours.

00:37:14Guest:is not anymore.

00:37:15Guest:America.

00:37:16Guest:America is getting blacker and browner and fatter and higher.

00:37:22Marc:I do a joke on stage.

00:37:23Marc:I brought it back recently because my producer reminded me of it.

00:37:27Marc:It's kind of a hard thing to take.

00:37:28Marc:I don't even know it's a joke, but I used to say the fear really at the core of racism is that they know in their hearts and in their minds that it only takes one brown load to make white black.

00:37:39Yeah.

00:37:42Marc:And there's no unblacking one.

00:37:44Guest:It is.

00:37:45Guest:And we're getting, like now, people are marrying each other and having people in their families.

00:37:52Guest:And accepting it.

00:37:54Guest:And really accepting it.

00:37:55Guest:And it really does take...

00:37:58Guest:Acceptance because, but acceptance not in the way that society says I should, but acceptance to me means I'm familiar with you.

00:38:05Guest:I ate with you.

00:38:06Guest:We had the same grandmother and we had the same arguments.

00:38:10Marc:Well, that was the weird thing about what really came down after Obama was that the one part of democracy that was too big of a burden for these people was tolerance.

00:38:19Marc:Yeah.

00:38:20Marc:It was just like, finally, we get the relief that we didn't have to tolerate it.

00:38:25Marc:But there's no way democracy moves forward without it, without tolerance.

00:38:30Marc:And you know, and I know, what I don't understand, I understand it, I don't know why I'm saying it, it's all a shock to me, but you go to New York, or you walk around here, but mostly New York, maybe a little bit of Chicago, but New York for sure, where it is a very diverse town.

00:38:44Marc:It is.

00:38:45Marc:But very segregated.

00:38:46Marc:I know, but I mean on the working level.

00:38:48Marc:Yes.

00:38:48Marc:Like day to day in the city, people work and you walk around, you're seeing everybody.

00:38:52Marc:You're on a train.

00:38:52Marc:And no way, it works.

00:38:55Marc:Right.

00:38:55Marc:And it doesn't seem like it should, but it does.

00:38:58Marc:It does.

00:38:58Marc:And then these people that are all up in arms about Mexicans and black people, they don't even have them in their fucking neighborhood.

00:39:04Marc:Right.

00:39:04Marc:Not even in their city.

00:39:05Marc:Right.

00:39:06Marc:Right.

00:39:06Marc:So that's the fear part.

00:39:08Marc:I mean, like you guys are coming for him.

00:39:10Guest:I think that I think there are a couple of things.

00:39:12Guest:I think you're absolutely right about that.

00:39:14Guest:But there are there is this notion of people being afraid of of.

00:39:21Guest:all the horrible things that have been done to people like that.

00:39:24Guest:They're afraid of vengeance, too.

00:39:26Guest:They're afraid that... Oh, that's right.

00:39:28Guest:What if these motherfuckers get me back?

00:39:30Guest:What if they... Because you don't... The one thing I will say about these specific times, and I don't care where you...

00:39:37Guest:You you you you're you're the reason where when something happens, they pretend like they don't see it like they get to pretend like they don't know Donald Trump is racist.

00:39:46Guest:They get to pretend like they don't know.

00:39:47Guest:So we can be brutal because if they did acknowledge it, they'd be compelled to do something about it.

00:39:53Marc:Or deny it and live with that cancer in their soul.

00:39:57Guest:That's right.

00:39:57Guest:Which I think a lot of them do.

00:39:59Guest:That's right.

00:39:59Guest:And so with the component of the realization of things is also if you know what things really are, then you also know the other side of the coin is that what if people...

00:40:11Guest:exact grievance for that.

00:40:13Marc:Well, yeah, I mean, I just went to the, you know, I was down in Birmingham, Alabama, and I went to that, the monument, the big lynching monument, and then I went to the museum in Montgomery.

00:40:24Marc:And that was an issue that's always been there, is that, you know, by the time, slavery at its peak,

00:40:30Marc:They were way outnumbered.

00:40:32Marc:And then once it was ended, they were just sort of like, okay, just go.

00:40:36Marc:They knew all the time at any point, which is why all that terrorism happened, all the lynchings happened, as an example.

00:40:43Marc:But they were completely outgunned.

00:40:46Marc:And I think they still that's still the thing.

00:40:48Marc:It's not it's not so much.

00:40:50Marc:I mean, they they probably regret slavery on some level, but they're still afraid of the repercussion.

00:40:56Guest:Only now, I think that human beings, I think they regret slavery.

00:41:00Guest:But the reason most of them regret slavery is because we're still here.

00:41:05Guest:They didn't have a return plan.

00:41:07Marc:Right.

00:41:07Marc:They didn't have a return to cinder plan.

00:41:09Marc:Just like the kids that they're stealing from these parents.

00:41:12Marc:Right, right.

00:41:12Marc:They didn't run any names down.

00:41:14Marc:Right, right.

00:41:15Marc:No cities.

00:41:16Marc:Right.

00:41:16Marc:No ships wanted to take them.

00:41:17Guest:Right, right, right.

00:41:18Guest:But it's so, like, even now, like,

00:41:20Guest:It's funny how America loses perspective constantly in matters like this.

00:41:26Guest:Like really, I don't know how different Colin Kaepernick is from Muhammad Ali.

00:41:31Guest:And we still have never learned from that.

00:41:32Guest:Or Rosa Parks.

00:41:33Guest:I'm not talking about his vocation.

00:41:35Guest:I'm talking about his stance and what it cost him and how it galvanized the community and how it raised awareness.

00:41:40Guest:He's going to be more famous for the thing that he stood for than he ever could for throwing a ball.

00:41:46Guest:It's that whole thing.

00:41:47Guest:And the other thing is- Do you feel like he has galvanized the community?

00:41:51Guest:I feel like he has.

00:41:53Guest:It's so funny because now we're- Now I'm going to start talking like a white guy.

00:41:55Guest:We're having- I mean, how are you guys doing?

00:41:58Guest:It's-

00:42:00Guest:People got mad because Colin Kaepernick.

00:42:06Guest:Why are you doing this?

00:42:07Guest:Why are you playing football?

00:42:08Guest:This is America's... But the only time white people ever listen to us is when we're running, jumping, dancing, or singing.

00:42:15Guest:So the only time white people sit around and watch black people is if they're doing something to entertain them.

00:42:20Guest:So it makes perfect sense if you want to get their attention.

00:42:24Guest:But even beyond that...

00:42:27Guest:one of the things that society seems to do is go, well, that black person is successful, so he's not, he doesn't get to have that conversation anymore.

00:42:35Guest:He doesn't get to say.

00:42:36Guest:Right.

00:42:37Guest:He's not regular black.

00:42:38Guest:He's one of us.

00:42:39Guest:He's kind of one of us.

00:42:40Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:42:41Guest:Like, if you look at football players, a lot of people, why are they protesting police brutality?

00:42:45Guest:They're rich.

00:42:46Guest:But if you look at the physical attributes, the very physical attributes that get you drafted in the NFL as a black man, being big, black, fast, strong, aggressive,

00:42:55Guest:impervious to pain.

00:42:56Guest:You know, if you, those very physical adjectives that get you drafted in the NFL get you killed when you're off that field.

00:43:02Guest:If you have it on a draft report, you're high.

00:43:05Guest:You go high on the draft.

00:43:06Guest:If you have it on a police report, it's the reason the grand jury acquits.

00:43:08Guest:They go, well, shit, look at all this.

00:43:10Guest:He had to shoot that nigga.

00:43:12Guest:Yeah, he wasn't on the field.

00:43:15Right, right, right.

00:43:16Marc:He was doing that shit just in the town.

00:43:18Guest:Right, right, right.

00:43:20Marc:That was between the haz marks.

00:43:21Marc:We had no problem.

00:43:23Marc:Right, right.

00:43:24Marc:But we didn't know what he had in his hand.

00:43:25Marc:It wasn't a ball.

00:43:32Marc:But when you were a kid and hanging out with these guys, getting back to that idea, I think that was kind of sweet that they knew you couldn't handle it and they didn't want you to get fucked up.

00:43:41Marc:Yeah.

00:43:42Marc:Those guys.

00:43:43Marc:They didn't.

00:43:43Guest:Yeah, they were hard.

00:43:44Guest:And you were like, fuck that guy.

00:43:46Guest:I wasn't.

00:43:47Guest:Like, I remember they had, they were beating this kid.

00:43:53Guest:They were beating him so bad.

00:43:55Guest:And I go, hey, man.

00:43:56Guest:And I was a kid.

00:43:57Guest:Yeah.

00:43:58Guest:And I go, hey, we should stop.

00:44:01Yeah.

00:44:01Guest:And he said, hey, look here, man.

00:44:03Guest:This is the way this shit goes.

00:44:07Guest:And take your ass home.

00:44:09Guest:And another time.

00:44:11Guest:That landed, right?

00:44:12Guest:Yeah, because it wasn't.

00:44:14Guest:It was not.

00:44:15Guest:I knew they had patience for me, but at a certain point, hey, motherfucker, all right now.

00:44:21Guest:Now you're playing.

00:44:22Guest:Let the grown-ups beat the shit out of this guy.

00:44:24Guest:Get back on the porch.

00:44:26Guest:Don't try to run with the big dogs.

00:44:29Guest:We defer to your little bullshit difference, but that's enough.

00:44:33Marc:We always see that dynamic in that great Singleton movie.

00:44:36Marc:What the one was?

00:44:37Marc:Boys in the Hood.

00:44:38Marc:No, the other one.

00:44:39Marc:Baby Boy.

00:44:41Marc:Baby Boy, yeah.

00:44:43Marc:Tyrese, yeah.

00:44:43Marc:That's a fucking great movie.

00:44:44Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:44:45Marc:I talk about that movie.

00:44:46Marc:I want to talk to him because I think that movie is a masterpiece.

00:44:49Marc:Did you see it?

00:44:50Marc:Of course.

00:44:51Marc:A bunch of times.

00:44:52Marc:Jody.

00:44:52Marc:Yeah, Jody.

00:44:54Marc:Tarazi.

00:44:55Marc:Snoop.

00:44:56Marc:Yeah.

00:44:56Marc:But that dynamic that they looked out for him.

00:44:59Marc:Yeah.

00:45:00Marc:They knew that.

00:45:01Guest:He wasn't one of them.

00:45:02Marc:Yeah.

00:45:03Marc:And it's like you were lucky to be that guy.

00:45:07Guest:You're lucky to have their favor and their favor.

00:45:09Guest:Like you're lucky to have them see something redemptive in you that they didn't try to exploit.

00:45:16Guest:Because as great as it could be to somebody, that thing could be exploited.

00:45:21Guest:It could be exploited physically.

00:45:23Guest:It could be exploited emotionally.

00:45:24Guest:It could be exploited sexually.

00:45:25Marc:But they knew some guys, for whatever reason, whether it was parenting or just the nature of who they were, they have that ability to be that dude.

00:45:33Guest:And there were dudes that would protect you from dudes who weren't like that.

00:45:36Guest:Yeah.

00:45:37Guest:It's not one monolith.

00:45:44Guest:And so there were dudes who would rob you or try to do whatever they could do, and it was dudes who stopped them from doing that because they believed.

00:45:52Guest:Some people are just like, fuck it, he here, and we're gonna try to take advantage of him.

00:45:55Guest:And it's just you look back at it,

00:45:57Guest:And you realize how and it's one of the reasons I still believe in some kind of higher power, because I don't believe you can navigate all that bullshit just on your own with your own wherewithal.

00:46:09Guest:So it's one of the reasons I got to say that maybe there's something out there that is functioning past me.

00:46:15Guest:Right.

00:46:16Guest:And I've seen that at least to some degree in my personal life.

00:46:20Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:46:21Guest:I mean, I ain't going to church.

00:46:22Marc:Right.

00:46:22Marc:But no, just your ability to make it through and hold on to your heart somehow.

00:46:28Guest:And your empathy and your compassion and your... Right.

00:46:33Guest:I remember feeling bad.

00:46:34Guest:What was it?

00:46:36Guest:I was... I can't even remember how old I was.

00:46:38Guest:I was...

00:46:39Guest:coming home and these cats, they older cats, because I used to like to be on the older, because that was all the shit was.

00:46:46Guest:Right.

00:46:47Guest:It was always, so they, hey, come here, you want to see this?

00:46:50Guest:We got this girl, and we're running a train on her.

00:46:53Guest:And I was like, what?

00:46:56Guest:So I go see, and they had this girl, and I was like, hey, man, I don't think she's with it.

00:47:05Guest:Yeah.

00:47:05Guest:I don't even remember how I said it, but I said, and I said, that's not, I wouldn't have known what rape was.

00:47:11Guest:I wouldn't have known what sex was.

00:47:12Guest:I wouldn't have known how to articulate.

00:47:13Guest:I had to be 10, like 12.

00:47:15Guest:Right.

00:47:16Guest:And these are kids around that age?

00:47:17Guest:No.

00:47:17Guest:They were older.

00:47:18Guest:And she was older.

00:47:21Guest:But you felt it.

00:47:22Guest:It was wrong.

00:47:23Guest:I knew it was wrong.

00:47:23Guest:And I knew, and here's the funny thing about it is, I said, she doesn't want to do this.

00:47:29Guest:Yeah.

00:47:30Guest:And I was smaller than them and I wasn't as tough as them and I was afraid of them.

00:47:36Guest:But I said, get your stuff.

00:47:38Guest:Come on.

00:47:38Guest:To the girl.

00:47:39Guest:And she got her stuff.

00:47:41Guest:And they didn't let me do it out of sense of fear.

00:47:44Guest:And they didn't let me do it out of sense of intimidation that I would tell or that I would do something.

00:47:50Guest:They let me do it because I saw them and they were ashamed that I had.

00:47:54Guest:It was shame they did that.

00:47:55Guest:Yeah, they knew they were wrong.

00:47:58Guest:But no one around them, they knew they were wrong.

00:48:01Guest:And they hit me and said, go home.

00:48:03Guest:But not beat me up, but just slap me around.

00:48:06Marc:They had to make a pose.

00:48:08Guest:But they let me take her.

00:48:09Guest:And I walked her all the way home.

00:48:11Guest:Wow.

00:48:12Guest:And so there are all these.

00:48:15Guest:Thank you.

00:48:16Guest:This is funny.

00:48:17Guest:So Mark would get her home.

00:48:18Guest:She's in a different neighborhood.

00:48:19Guest:I had to walk past.

00:48:20Guest:And her brother sees his sister all disheveled and torn up, starts chasing me around with a knife.

00:48:27Guest:And she didn't say anything for a while.

00:48:29Guest:And finally she goes, it wasn't him.

00:48:31Guest:He helped me.

00:48:32Guest:He helped me.

00:48:33Guest:Oh, no.

00:48:33Guest:No.

00:48:33Guest:So he said, either you tell me who did it or I'm going to cut you.

00:48:37Guest:And I said, man, I live with them.

00:48:40Guest:He said, well, I'm going to cut you.

00:48:42Guest:And I closed my eyes and he didn't cut me.

00:48:44Guest:And he slapped me.

00:48:45Guest:So I got beat up by him and I got beat up by him.

00:48:49Guest:He slapped me all the way back to my leg.

00:48:51Guest:Just kept slapping me in the back of the head and kicking me in my back.

00:48:53Guest:You know, this kid just doing... Because you're a kid, right?

00:48:56Guest:But just like... Yeah.

00:48:57Guest:And then so I get back to my neighborhood and they kind of not talking to me.

00:49:01Guest:And then weeks later, I'm at this place called Smitty's Liquor Store.

00:49:04Guest:We all hung out there.

00:49:06Guest:Yeah.

00:49:06Guest:And I see the motherfucker who... And he gets into his car and said, thanks, nigga.

00:49:11Guest:And goes... Because I helped his sister.

00:49:12Guest:Her brother.

00:49:14Guest:Yeah.

00:49:14Guest:He didn't say he wasn't nice.

00:49:15Guest:Yeah, right.

00:49:16Guest:He goes, thanks, nigga.

00:49:16Guest:That's right.

00:49:17Guest:That's all you got.

00:49:19Marc:That's enough.

00:49:20Marc:And you couldn't go to the guys who live in your neighborhood.

00:49:23Marc:They were still mad at me.

00:49:24Marc:Right, but you couldn't say like, you don't know what I did.

00:49:26Marc:I couldn't say that.

00:49:27Guest:No.

00:49:29Guest:But I'm actually, I'll never forget that moment.

00:49:32Marc:Yeah, the moment of...

00:49:35Marc:something bigger than you.

00:49:36Marc:That's one of those moments where you get the courage to do that in that moment.

00:49:40Marc:To see something's wrong in a real way and step in.

00:49:45Guest:And I was so afraid that my mouth tastes like pennies.

00:49:51Guest:That was the first time, the only time I would...

00:49:53Guest:I read a story one time that talked about the brass taste of fear and I went, that's what that is.

00:49:58Guest:Really?

00:49:59Guest:Yep.

00:49:59Guest:That's how I knew it.

00:50:00Guest:It's real.

00:50:00Guest:It was, man, my mouth was dry and it tasted like pennies and I was horrified.

00:50:05Marc:And so that was enough for you.

00:50:06Marc:You didn't have to get, you know, you never crossed any other sort of moral lines.

00:50:11Guest:I've crossed a lot of moral lines.

00:50:13Guest:I shouldn't, you know.

00:50:14Guest:Right.

00:50:15Guest:I've crossed a lot of moral lines, but this is weird to say, but not many that I haven't

00:50:23Guest:I don't pretend like I don't know what they are, and I don't pretend, I don't give myself a break for them, like more in my marriage, in some of the things I've done.

00:50:33Guest:But you never killed a dude?

00:50:34Guest:No, no.

00:50:36Guest:You have a pretty low bar.

00:50:37Guest:Thank you, Mark.

00:50:38Guest:I mean, the other stuff you can rationalize.

00:50:44Guest:Yeah, I fucked my wife's sister, but I didn't kill nobody.

00:50:47Guest:I didn't actually do that.

00:50:48Guest:I didn't do that.

00:50:49Guest:You know what I mean.

00:50:51Marc:I think there are some things that, like we were talking about before, whatever they were insulating you from, there are some things that break a spirit that will either crush a person or make them hard beyond redemption.

00:51:02Marc:Right.

00:51:03Guest:And a lot of those cats, though I love them and that I learned a lot from them, they were...

00:51:12Guest:I've met four dudes in my neighborhood, I'd say, that without, I'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist.

00:51:18Guest:Right.

00:51:19Guest:But they were sociopaths.

00:51:20Guest:Sure.

00:51:21Guest:Yeah.

00:51:22Marc:Yeah.

00:51:22Marc:And they like me, so it was cool, but they were sociopaths.

00:51:25Marc:Right, because something broke in them where conscience was not, they couldn't entertain it.

00:51:30Marc:Yeah.

00:51:31Marc:They just didn't get it.

00:51:32Marc:Oh, from the get-go.

00:51:35Guest:They were always different.

00:51:37Guest:I'm like, man, what the fuck is wrong with you?

00:51:39Guest:How do you think that's okay?

00:51:40Guest:They were always, from the time we were kids.

00:51:43Marc:I wonder about that sort of, like now because of social media platforms and also because of this president, that it's sort of unleashed a type of, you know, if there's some narcissists out there who are like malignant, fucked up people and they've got any juice at all, it's their time.

00:51:59Marc:It is.

00:52:00Marc:It is, man.

00:52:01Marc:It's vampires walking the earth in the daylight.

00:52:05Marc:Trump, Roseanne, Kanye, there's like an arc there.

00:52:08Marc:There's something that's running through.

00:52:10Guest:And all of them, and I would say that every person I know that is him is

00:52:20Guest:they have this malignancy in them.

00:52:22Guest:And it's so obvious.

00:52:24Guest:Now, you can mask it with a level of genius.

00:52:27Guest:Sure, or charm, or like, yeah.

00:52:28Guest:Yeah, you can mask, you know.

00:52:30Guest:Right.

00:52:31Guest:But when it's naked and you see it for itself, there's, like, I...

00:52:36Guest:I loved Kanye.

00:52:37Guest:I can't stand him now.

00:52:38Guest:Yeah.

00:52:39Guest:I can't.

00:52:40Guest:I can't.

00:52:42Guest:You mean you've gotten past him like, well, he's mentally ill.

00:52:44Guest:No, because black people will do that.

00:52:45Guest:Everybody go, see, if you make an album good enough for us, we will make excuses for you.

00:52:50Guest:That's how bad we need to feel good.

00:52:52Guest:Right.

00:52:52Guest:They're like, you know, they didn't get me a right since his mama died.

00:52:55Guest:We made excuses for R. Kelly.

00:52:56Guest:I mean, I know he peed on that girl, but if you're going to pee on somebody, this is the album you need to do it to.

00:53:00Guest:I mean, yeah, Bill Cusby raped those people, but he gave us Jell-O.

00:53:07Guest:They didn't let him off the hook.

00:53:08Guest:It took a long time.

00:53:09Guest:It took a long time.

00:53:12Guest:But for people like that, the reason that they spark to him, that he's like that moth to the flame kind of thing, is because they internally have the same kind of failings and malignancy and darkness that he has.

00:53:28Yeah.

00:53:28Guest:They do.

00:53:30Guest:Like Roseanne with the whole Ambien thing.

00:53:33Guest:And I'm like, Ambien makes you sleepy, not hate Nikki's.

00:53:37Guest:I never saw that.

00:53:37Marc:What is that all about?

00:53:38Marc:Well, that's the thing, knowing from having a narcissistic father, when you corner them, they got no way out but fuck you.

00:53:46Marc:And they'll make all the excuses, but if they're down for the count, they're not just gonna go down.

00:53:52Marc:No, no, they're gonna take some therapy.

00:53:53Marc:Yeah, you don't know what the fuck's gonna happen.

00:53:55Guest:Like the whole thing, I didn't know that Ape was...

00:53:57Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:53:58Guest:You called Susan Rice an ape earlier.

00:54:00Guest:Yeah.

00:54:01Guest:You said you, then you value, so you can't pretend, but it's not even them.

00:54:07Guest:Yeah.

00:54:08Guest:We've had people like them.

00:54:10Guest:Yeah.

00:54:11Guest:You know, throughout history.

00:54:13Guest:Yeah.

00:54:14Guest:What we have intended to have is so many people like them with voices and power who are letting them run unobstructed.

00:54:23Marc:Well, no, yeah, we always had them, but they didn't have a Twitter account.

00:54:26Marc:Yeah.

00:54:26Marc:They didn't have a way to just cause trouble.

00:54:31Marc:To sink up.

00:54:32Marc:Cause international trouble.

00:54:33Marc:Right.

00:54:34Marc:You're saying one thing.

00:54:36Marc:Right.

00:54:37Marc:So when you started doing comedy, how old were you?

00:54:43Marc:Oh, 21.

00:54:43Marc:Yeah, so you dropped out of school, and were you headed in a bad direction?

00:54:48Guest:I was, you know, here's the thing, I just was dumb.

00:54:51Guest:Not dumb.

00:54:54Guest:But see, I would have never thought that I wasn't, given you have these experiences that you process things a different way.

00:55:04Guest:But it was a frustrating process for me, so I just stopped going, and then...

00:55:08Guest:And then I work at the LA Times, and I get to talk, and I start doing comedy.

00:55:14Marc:Were you working at the LA Times first?

00:55:16Guest:Yeah.

00:55:16Guest:Doing what?

00:55:17Guest:Selling subscriptions on the phone.

00:55:19Guest:I remember I called Jay Leno one time.

00:55:22Guest:Really?

00:55:23Guest:And he all but cussed me out.

00:55:24Marc:But did you know it was Jay Leno?

00:55:25Marc:Yeah, of course.

00:55:26Marc:Yeah.

00:55:26Marc:Of course.

00:55:27Guest:Oh, this wasn't when you were selling papers, or it was?

00:55:30Guest:I was selling papers, and I called Jay Leno.

00:55:32Guest:And he was like, I don't want it.

00:55:34Guest:And then years later, I would be on his show.

00:55:37Guest:And I was on the show like 30 times.

00:55:39Guest:Yeah.

00:55:39Guest:And I would always bring that up.

00:55:40Guest:I didn't say that, but he always, he did say that to me.

00:55:42Guest:But I started, you know, I started being away from the environment that I grew up in.

00:55:48Guest:And I would have to go to work all the time.

00:55:50Guest:And I liked being in that environment.

00:55:52Guest:Yeah.

00:55:53Marc:Because your parents made you work or you felt like you had to work.

00:55:55Guest:Oh, no, you're going, you're going.

00:55:57Guest:Yeah.

00:55:58Guest:So I like being, and then I meet my wife and I see her, like I saw her and I knew I would marry.

00:56:03Guest:Where is she from?

00:56:04Guest:She's from Los Angeles too, but she lived in Carson.

00:56:09Guest:Incorporated?

00:56:10Guest:No, no, Carson's a real city.

00:56:11Guest:Yeah, that's what I mean, yeah.

00:56:13Guest:Black people who did well moved to Carson and then Cerritos.

00:56:16Uh-huh.

00:56:16Guest:That was the migration.

00:56:18Guest:They got the fuck out of L.A.

00:56:21Guest:But I saw her, and then I wanted to, I dug her, and she didn't dig me, and I was pursuing her, and then she finally started going out with me, and I didn't have any prospects for the future, so I knew that if I passed, if I got a GED, then I could be a cop.

00:56:40Guest:That was the plan?

00:56:41Guest:Yep, so I said, I took my GED, and I got accepted to the L.A.

00:56:45Guest:Police Academy.

00:56:46Guest:And then I said, when I get accepted, I'm going to ask you to marry me.

00:56:49Guest:Then I got accepted and was out in three days or four days or five days or some shit like that.

00:56:53Guest:Why?

00:56:54Guest:I got shin splints.

00:56:55Guest:But really, I just didn't want to do all that running.

00:56:57Guest:Really, I just knew.

00:56:57Guest:I was like, this is bullshit.

00:56:58Guest:I'm not doing this.

00:57:01Guest:And I didn't have a job, but I had told her if I got accepted that we'd get married.

00:57:05Guest:And so she started planning a wedding, so I had to fucking marry her.

00:57:09Marc:Shin splints.

00:57:12Marc:But what compels you to try stand-up?

00:57:16Guest:Um, it was always, uh, like I would always get girls by making them laugh and I'd always been able to communicate.

00:57:26Guest:Like I was, I remember taking a test as a kid and they said my comprehension, like I could understand.

00:57:34Guest:Yeah.

00:57:35Guest:And these white people would come and take you to the library and give you ice cream and ask you questions and shit.

00:57:40Guest:It was like weird.

00:57:42Guest:And then I would come back and I was like an animal that had been touched by somebody in civilization.

00:57:48Guest:They'd be like, why'd you go in with them?

00:57:49Guest:And so... This one's okay.

00:57:53Right.

00:57:53Guest:They would just ask me questions.

00:57:56Guest:They would just ask me questions and give me ice cream and hang out.

00:58:00Guest:So I could comprehend and I had a pretty good vocabulary for them.

00:58:08Guest:And that was the thing they said.

00:58:11Guest:when I started working at the LA Times, I would go get my hair cut and I would always talk shit.

00:58:16Guest:I was always, that's how I got chicks to dig me or whatever.

00:58:19Guest:And these cats said, well, if you think you're so funny, because back then cats who were barbers sold weed and sold boosted shit and did tax.

00:58:28Guest:They did all kinds of shit.

00:58:29Guest:Barbers.

00:58:29Guest:The barbershop.

00:58:30Guest:It was all kind of, shit be coming in the back.

00:58:33Guest:I remember going to stacks of VCRs and all that shit.

00:58:35Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:58:36Guest:So they were giving a concert at the Total Experience on Crenshaw with a group called Blue Magic and Robin Harris.

00:58:44Guest:I was going to ask you about Robin Harris.

00:58:46Guest:That was the first time I'd ever seen him.

00:58:47Guest:And they said, if you think you're so funny, open this show.

00:58:51Guest:And I had never done comedy.

00:58:53Guest:And I get on stage in front of this show.

00:58:57Guest:I instantly came to see this group in him.

00:59:00Guest:And I said, this is what I'm supposed to do.

00:59:02Guest:And I instantly knew that's why I felt sorry for those dudes in my neighborhood.

00:59:06Guest:I knew I would do this.

00:59:07Guest:Yeah.

00:59:07Guest:And that was it.

00:59:08Guest:That was it.

00:59:08Guest:How'd you do?

00:59:09Guest:Horrible.

00:59:10Guest:Because I didn't have any material.

00:59:13Guest:I just, I just.

00:59:15Guest:Did you get to know Robin?

00:59:16Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:59:17Guest:Robin never liked me.

00:59:18Guest:No.

00:59:18Guest:Robert didn't like me to the last 30 days, last 60 days of his life.

00:59:22Guest:Now, he wasn't sick, so we didn't know he was dying.

00:59:24Guest:Right.

00:59:25Guest:But he never liked me.

00:59:27Guest:Why?

00:59:28Guest:One time he said, here you are, you're going to have everything I have, and people are going to like you, and I said, man, and he used to intimidate people, but I never let it.

00:59:39Guest:I said, I'm not scared of you, man.

00:59:41Guest:Yeah.

00:59:41Guest:And I told him, everything you have, I'm going to have.

00:59:43Guest:You said that to him?

00:59:44Guest:Yes, and why would you do that in front of people?

00:59:46Guest:It was the worst thing.

00:59:47Guest:Oh.

00:59:48Guest:He said that to you.

00:59:49Guest:He said it to me.

00:59:50Guest:And then I said, I'm not scared of you.

00:59:52Guest:I'm going to have everything you have.

00:59:53Guest:You're right.

00:59:53Guest:I'm going to have everything.

00:59:55Guest:But.

00:59:56Guest:It was just a territorial thing.

00:59:58Guest:Competition.

00:59:59Guest:And then every time I would walk in, like, I would have a guest set at the Comedy Act Theater.

01:00:03Guest:Yeah.

01:00:03Guest:Joint closed at 1130.

01:00:05Guest:Yeah.

01:00:05Guest:He would do all the way to 1127 and put me on while people were walking out.

01:00:09Guest:And I was still going over and over and over and over.

01:00:11Guest:Because he was hosting it?

01:00:13Guest:Mm-hmm.

01:00:13Guest:so that was your guy that was your nemesis he wasn't yeah i i loved and respected him but he just wasn't gonna and then until the last 60 days right before he died like we didn't know he wasn't sick so right heart attack right yeah narcolepsy heart attack so he started calling me and then we would start hanging out and then we would start talking oh yeah and then we got very close matter of fact his only first and only comedy album baby's kids i was the one to introduce them oh yeah that's me yep

01:00:39Marc:Yeah, he was something else, man.

01:00:41Marc:And nobody really knows him, not in my world.

01:00:46Marc:He's one of those comics where you're like, he's so young, man.

01:00:50Marc:He died, he was so young.

01:00:51Guest:But he is the father of modern comedy.

01:00:54Guest:Not Richard Pryor, Robin Harris.

01:00:56Guest:Yeah?

01:00:57Guest:Not Richard Pryor, Robin Harris.

01:00:59Guest:Why?

01:00:59Guest:Def Jam, that whole kind of genesis, that whole kind of evolution.

01:01:06Guest:Who were the other guys?

01:01:08Guest:Well...

01:01:08Guest:In terms of leading, because what happened was Robin Harris made them come down to the hood to see these things.

01:01:14Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:01:14Guest:So you didn't have to... Made who see?

01:01:17Guest:White people?

01:01:17Guest:The agents and managers.

01:01:19Guest:Right.

01:01:19Guest:They would all... Talent agencies and development deals and all that kind of shit.

01:01:23Guest:They all came to come.

01:01:23Guest:He brought them down.

01:01:24Guest:He did.

01:01:24Guest:And so, you know, I don't care if Chappelle's or... Rock was different because Eddie found him.

01:01:31Guest:But everybody else, like all those people, the Martins and the Wayans and all that kind of stuff.

01:01:35Guest:Right.

01:01:35Marc:Well, Richard's richer.

01:01:36Marc:It's a different time.

01:01:36Guest:Yes.

01:01:36Marc:So you're saying the next generation revolved around Robin doing that, bringing people in.

01:01:42Guest:There's never been a more...

01:01:45Guest:popular group of black comics that that are he is the the the if we were starting a tree yeah they would have all had sprung from that oh yeah like the eddies no they had that yeah but all these people you know now right from the real hood yep in a way they are yeah because they are all them right they are all from him

01:02:05Guest:Who were the other guys?

01:02:06Guest:I'd say Bernie.

01:02:08Guest:I'd say Cedric.

01:02:09Guest:I'd say Steve.

01:02:12Guest:I'd say Chappelle.

01:02:13Guest:I'd say Martin.

01:02:14Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:02:16Guest:Chris Tucker.

01:02:17Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:02:18Guest:Eddie Griffin.

01:02:19Guest:All the cats.

01:02:20Guest:Yeah, they would all be for me.

01:02:22Guest:Yeah, Bernie was so good.

01:02:23Guest:Yeah, he was.

01:02:23Guest:He was.

01:02:24Marc:What was your first break?

01:02:26Guest:What did I...

01:02:28Guest:I remember the first time I ever made $1,000 doing comedy.

01:02:31Guest:That's the best, right?

01:02:32Guest:With Martin Lawrence, I was playing the rock.

01:02:34Guest:What is that on?

01:02:35Guest:It's on Wilshire.

01:02:36Guest:What is it?

01:02:36Guest:The Roxy?

01:02:37Guest:On Wilshire?

01:02:38Marc:Oh, the El Rey?

01:02:39Marc:It's the El Rey.

01:02:40Marc:It is, but it wasn't the El Rey then.

01:02:42Marc:It's that theater you mean?

01:02:43Guest:Yeah, it was the theater.

01:02:44Marc:Is it the El Rey?

01:02:45Guest:It's the El Rey now, but it wasn't the El Rey.

01:02:47Guest:Oh, okay, okay.

01:02:49Guest:And so I opened for him and he gave me $1,000 and I started crying.

01:02:57Guest:I was like, thanks so much.

01:02:58Guest:A thousand dollars?

01:03:00Guest:And I start crying.

01:03:01Guest:I call my wife and I go, baby, I got a thousand dollars.

01:03:05Guest:We gonna make it.

01:03:05Marc:You did.

01:03:08Marc:But then when did you do that HBO thing?

01:03:11Guest:You know how I got that HBO special, the one we were talking about earlier?

01:03:13Guest:I got that.

01:03:14Guest:My manager was a cat named Tony Spires.

01:03:16Guest:Tony Spires, he held the barrier of black competition.

01:03:18Guest:He managed me.

01:03:19Guest:And so they were having those half hour tryouts.

01:03:22Guest:By that time I had worked and I wasn't working anymore and I was just trying to be.

01:03:25Marc:Were you doing all those clubs we talked about earlier?

01:03:27Marc:So you're kind of hard comedy.

01:03:29Guest:Yeah, I was.

01:03:30Guest:Yeah.

01:03:30Guest:I mean, I had comedy chops.

01:03:32Guest:It just didn't have hadn't had.

01:03:33Guest:Yeah.

01:03:34Guest:So they they came out this place called the townhouse in in the hood.

01:03:39Guest:Yeah.

01:03:39Guest:And they were they were auditioning J. Anthony Brown.

01:03:42Guest:Yeah.

01:03:43Guest:Eddie Griffin, Joe Torre, Jamie Foxx.

01:03:47Guest:He said, I can't get you an audition, but I can let you host.

01:03:52Guest:They'll let you host.

01:03:53Guest:So I would do 10 minutes, bring somebody on, do five minutes, bring somebody on, do five more minutes, bring somebody else on.

01:03:59Guest:10 minutes at the end, then I wrapped it up.

01:04:01Guest:At the end, they gave me and Eddie Griffin the special.

01:04:04Marc:Well, the hosting is a good shot because if you do have chops and you go get them, as opposed to just be scared of someone who has a new guy, then they're like, who's this fucking guy?

01:04:13Guest:That's what happened too.

01:04:14Guest:And I got it.

01:04:15Guest:And I wasn't even excited that I got the special.

01:04:18Guest:I was excited because I knew it was 30 grand.

01:04:19Guest:Remember, it was 30 grand to get it.

01:04:21Guest:And you could keep your benefit.

01:04:22Guest:It was for the special.

01:04:23Marc:Right, right.

01:04:23Guest:you get the SAG.

01:04:25Marc:First time you get insurance.

01:04:26Marc:Yep, and so I had, the first time I had it that wasn't from the LA Times, it was from the.

01:04:30Marc:Yeah, but I remember watching it, and I'm like, you know, you were talking about family and stuff, and it wasn't the material, I was just sort of like, there's something going on.

01:04:40Marc:I was like, this guy means business.

01:04:42Guest:Yeah, man.

01:04:44Guest:You had to be, because all I ever knew was shut the fuck up, pick this drink.

01:04:48Guest:It was urgent.

01:04:50Guest:Yeah, right.

01:04:51Guest:It was urgent.

01:04:51Guest:Right, right.

01:04:52Guest:Urgent.

01:04:53Guest:And then after that, what happened?

01:04:55Guest:You just started working on the road a little bit?

01:04:57Guest:I worked on the road a little bit.

01:05:00Marc:Then we got... When did you start hosting on BET?

01:05:04Guest:Shortly after that.

01:05:05Marc:Were you hosting?

01:05:06Guest:I was the first host of Comic View.

01:05:07Marc:You were the first?

01:05:08Marc:I was the very first host.

01:05:10Marc:I didn't watch it much, but I just remember Talent, wasn't he one host forever?

01:05:15Guest:I was the very first one.

01:05:16Marc:But he hosted it for years, didn't he?

01:05:18Guest:Here's how it happened.

01:05:19Guest:I hosted it for two years.

01:05:22Guest:I was the first host.

01:05:22Guest:I hosted it for two years.

01:05:24Guest:The second year, I thought, I want to do something different.

01:05:28Guest:And I quit in the middle of a show.

01:05:31Guest:And they started saying, we're going to have alternate hosts.

01:05:35Guest:And so then the next one was Cedric.

01:05:36Guest:And then they had all that.

01:05:37Guest:But I was the host for two years.

01:05:39Guest:Was there a guy named Talent or were I making that up?

01:05:40Guest:Yeah, Talent did that.

01:05:41Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:05:41Guest:But it was way later.

01:05:42Guest:Oh, way later.

01:05:43Guest:Way later.

01:05:43Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:05:45Guest:Way later.

01:05:46Guest:Matter of fact, when I did BET, they only ... I don't even know if I can say this because they wouldn't pay me.

01:05:54Guest:And so you couldn't have a lawyer.

01:05:56Guest:Yeah.

01:05:56Guest:And they wouldn't let ... You couldn't have a lawyer.

01:05:59Guest:And if you asked for a lawyer, it would be trouble.

01:06:02Guest:But you could go to an arbitrator in D.C.

01:06:05Guest:They had all the fucking rules.

01:06:07Guest:Yeah.

01:06:07Guest:They made a mistake in the contract that said I was supposed to be paid X amount of dollars per segment, not per show.

01:06:16Guest:But what they did was, I taped 150-something shows, and they would cut them up, and it'd be best ofs.

01:06:24Guest:So Eddie had to pay you.

01:06:26Guest:So we go.

01:06:27Guest:My lawyer's name was Aaron Fox.

01:06:30Guest:It was the name of the corporation.

01:06:31Guest:No, Aaron Fox.

01:06:33Guest:I don't know if they represent him or me.

01:06:35Guest:But we had to go to D.C.

01:06:36Guest:to an arbitrator.

01:06:37Guest:We are sitting there.

01:06:39Guest:There's me, my lawyer, their lawyers, and the people from BET.

01:06:43Guest:And BET makes this argument.

01:06:45Guest:And they said, did you let them have a lawyer?

01:06:46Guest:And they said, no.

01:06:47Guest:They said, but he knew he wasn't getting paid that.

01:06:50Guest:I said, I only knew with the contract.

01:06:51Guest:I didn't I don't know.

01:06:52Guest:I had no idea.

01:06:53Guest:I couldn't have a lawyer.

01:06:54Guest:Yeah.

01:06:55Guest:So I had a litigate.

01:06:56Guest:I had a litigated, but I didn't have a lawyer.

01:06:58Guest:I couldn't have an entertainment lawyer.

01:07:00Guest:Right.

01:07:01Guest:The lawyer, the arbitrator looks down and said, you hit you.

01:07:05Guest:You had representation in BET.

01:07:07Guest:And they said, yes.

01:07:08Guest:He said, you didn't.

01:07:08Guest:I said, no.

01:07:09Guest:They said, pay him.

01:07:10Guest:And the dude started crying right there.

01:07:13Guest:And I said, did we win?

01:07:14Guest:They had to pay me all this money.

01:07:16Guest:And for segments.

01:07:17Guest:Residual.

01:07:19Guest:For segments.

01:07:20Guest:And it was like six segments a show.

01:07:22Guest:Right.

01:07:23Guest:For three years.

01:07:24Guest:They fucked up the language of the contract.

01:07:26Guest:Yep.

01:07:26Guest:They did.

01:07:28Marc:They didn't expect anybody would call him on it.

01:07:30Guest:Well, I wouldn't have because I couldn't read.

01:07:32Guest:I couldn't read that shit anyway.

01:07:35Guest:Yeah, I didn't know what the fuck that was.

01:07:37Guest:Boy, I know this.

01:07:38Guest:He started crying when they had to pay him.

01:07:40Guest:The BET guy?

01:07:41Guest:Oh, the executive.

01:07:41Guest:He got fired and everything.

01:07:43Guest:His name was Curtis.

01:07:45Guest:I won't say his last name, but he sure did get fired.

01:07:47Guest:He started crying in there.

01:07:48Guest:I was like, why is he crying?

01:07:50Guest:He don't have to write the check.

01:07:51Marc:But he wrote the contract.

01:07:53Marc:Funny, man.

01:07:54Marc:And then after that, so when did you start touring with the Kings of Comedy?

01:07:58Marc:Is that a long time after that?

01:07:59Marc:A long time after that.

01:07:59Marc:So we did that.

01:08:02Marc:But you did BET, and then you're touring.

01:08:04Marc:Because, I mean, you were a big act, right?

01:08:06Guest:Well, we did BET.

01:08:08Guest:We did Half Hour.

01:08:10Guest:We did another Half Hour.

01:08:12Guest:I did this thing called Devil Rush that was with Bobby Pastorelli, and it was a Diane English show.

01:08:17Guest:That really didn't take.

01:08:18Guest:But I got...

01:08:20Guest:I started making money on the road, so I moved from the inner city into the valley.

01:08:27Guest:And that's how the Hughleys came about, because I had white neighbors for the very first time in my life.

01:08:30Marc:So when you toured, though, at that time, because someone like Bernie, man, if you listen to Bernie's first stuff, I mean, that was for black audiences.

01:08:36Marc:There was no question.

01:08:37Marc:Period.

01:08:38Marc:So a lot of you guys, and I imagine it still happens, is that it was almost all black audiences.

01:08:43Marc:Yes.

01:08:43Guest:But that's a big audience.

01:08:45Guest:See, but back then, it's still a pretty good-sized audience, but now they have so many more options.

01:08:51Guest:Right.

01:08:51Guest:It was like we were back when they had the TV with three channels, and we were on all the channels.

01:08:56Guest:Right.

01:08:57Guest:So it was us and white people and Mexicans.

01:08:58Guest:That was all you had.

01:09:00Guest:Right, right.

01:09:00Guest:And so we were a big, big act, but it came about.

01:09:04Guest:I was on the Hughleys.

01:09:05Guest:They had gone out and done a modified version of that, Bernie and Stead.

01:09:09Guest:and Steve, and they were playing theaters, it was okay, but they wanted to move up to arenas.

01:09:13Marc:But you had the Hughleys.

01:09:15Marc:I had the Hughleys.

01:09:16Marc:That was on for, like, that was one of those things I remember, right, but it was one of those things where you got moved off a network, and then they got you another network.

01:09:23Guest:Yeah, UPN, sure did.

01:09:24Guest:That was fucking crazy, right?

01:09:25Guest:It was.

01:09:26Guest:You thought you were done.

01:09:27Guest:Yep.

01:09:28Guest:I never did, though.

01:09:29Guest:I always knew.

01:09:29Guest:I remember when they told us we were canceled on ABC, I said, I don't know how, but I'm gonna get us 200 episodes, and I did.

01:09:36Guest:And did it syndicate?

01:09:37Guest:Yeah.

01:09:38Guest:Oh, that's great.

01:09:39Guest:Yeah.

01:09:39Guest:It ain't what it was.

01:09:40Guest:It ain't like a Cosby syndication.

01:09:41Guest:But then again, I ain't got to pay out a lawsuit.

01:09:45Guest:You don't got to go broke and blind and be disgraced forever.

01:09:49Marc:Hey, be erased.

01:09:50Marc:Stop telling the truth.

01:09:51Marc:Be erased from history.

01:09:53Marc:Right.

01:09:54Guest:Yeah.

01:09:55Guest:But then we, you know, I was on the, Sid was on, Sid and Steve were on Steve's show.

01:10:01Guest:Bernie was just crushing them on the road.

01:10:04Guest:I was on my show.

01:10:05Guest:Bernie hadn't had his show yet.

01:10:06Guest:He hadn't had his show yet.

01:10:07Guest:And so they wanted to play Arena, so they bought me on.

01:10:11Guest:And we toured for three years, and then Bernie got a show.

01:10:14Guest:That was huge, that tour.

01:10:15Guest:It was very big.

01:10:16Guest:And then Spike did the movie.

01:10:17Guest:Then Spike did the movie.

01:10:18Marc:Did he do it?

01:10:19Marc:Like, he did it early on, though, right?

01:10:21Marc:Or did he wait three years?

01:10:22Marc:It was his third year.

01:10:23Marc:Oh, it was.

01:10:23Guest:So you guys were tight.

01:10:25Guest:Yeah, we were ready to go.

01:10:27Guest:But it was weird for me.

01:10:28Guest:What happened for me is I had done another HBO special 30 days before.

01:10:34Guest:And it had aired.

01:10:35Guest:It's called Going Home.

01:10:36Guest:And it had aired about 30, 40 days before we were going to shoot the movie.

01:10:43Guest:The King's Account.

01:10:44Guest:Oh, really?

01:10:44Guest:So I had to write.

01:10:45Guest:I had written an hour.

01:10:46Guest:Right.

01:10:47Guest:So I had to write 30 more minutes.

01:10:48Guest:In a month?

01:10:49Guest:In a month.

01:10:50Guest:It was horrible.

01:10:51Guest:Oh, it's the worst.

01:10:52Guest:It was horrible.

01:10:52Marc:Because you spent like a year putting that HBO shit together.

01:10:56Guest:A couple years.

01:10:56Guest:Right?

01:10:57Marc:And it's tight and you know how it goes.

01:10:59Marc:Man, man.

01:11:00Marc:How did you feel it came out?

01:11:02Guest:I don't know.

01:11:02Guest:I would have noticed.

01:11:03Guest:It was all right.

01:11:05Guest:I wish that I'd have gotten, I wish I could have done my HBO special on the Kings of Comedy, but I did it then.

01:11:11Guest:But I've done, this is my, September 18th will be for Netflix, Contrarian will be my 11th special.

01:11:19Guest:That's amazing.

01:11:20Guest:11th.

01:11:21Guest:That's great.

01:11:21Guest:Three books and 11, I've written three books and

01:11:24Guest:and three specials in the last six years.

01:11:28Marc:Well, this is the time.

01:11:30Marc:It is, yeah.

01:11:32Marc:You're giving away money, and there's all these different options.

01:11:36Marc:And it's sort of hard, though, when you hear about how some of the guys we know and came up with the money they're making, and then they make your offer.

01:11:43Marc:There's some part of your brain, but you're still like, still a lot of money.

01:11:46Guest:You know what's funny?

01:11:47Guest:I had no idea...

01:11:48Guest:This, when they, so Michael goes, we got you a Netflix movie.

01:11:53Guest:So I said, all right, thanks, man.

01:11:54Guest:That's cool.

01:11:55Guest:Dope.

01:11:55Guest:I want to do it.

01:11:57Guest:And so I start writing it and getting it together.

01:12:00Guest:And then I hear Monique say, they only offer to have me a dozen.

01:12:03Guest:I'm like, hey, wait a minute.

01:12:04Guest:How much did they offer me?

01:12:05Guest:Like, it was months later.

01:12:06Guest:Like, I had been excited about the deal.

01:12:08Guest:I had no idea whether

01:12:09Guest:Just assume Mike Rotenberg would give you a good deal, right?

01:12:12Guest:Yeah, I just didn't even think about it because I thought, because when we did specials, it was like a calling card.

01:12:17Guest:Just let me show you.

01:12:18Guest:Sure, right, right.

01:12:18Guest:Let me show off for you a little bit.

01:12:20Guest:You're just happy to get it.

01:12:21Guest:Right.

01:12:21Guest:To get the exposure.

01:12:22Guest:Right, I want you to see what I'm doing these days.

01:12:24Guest:And then I said.

01:12:25Guest:And they told you how much.

01:12:26Marc:Yeah, and I was like, oh, okay.

01:12:28Marc:All right.

01:12:28Marc:I'll take it.

01:12:30Marc:I'll do it.

01:12:32Marc:But when I was looking at, because I've watched you all the time, you had the Hughleys, but then like any of us, you got to keep moving, you got to keep working, and you did the tour.

01:12:44Marc:How did Bernie Digan, he dropped a heart attack too?

01:12:46Marc:No, he had sarcoidosis.

01:12:48Guest:Which is a lung.

01:12:50Marc:So were you with him towards the end too?

01:12:53Guest:Yeah.

01:12:53Guest:But the sad thing about that is that we were in Vegas.

01:12:57Guest:I was doing a gig in Vegas.

01:12:59Guest:And there was this fake rumor that Bernie had died.

01:13:02Guest:And we found out it wasn't true.

01:13:04Guest:So I said, I'll go see him.

01:13:07Guest:I'll make this run.

01:13:08Guest:Had all these days booked, so I'll go see him.

01:13:11Guest:And then he died right when I was winding down.

01:13:17Guest:Go check it out?

01:13:17Guest:Go check him out.

01:13:18Guest:And I remember when they had his funeral, I was performing in Phoenix.

01:13:24Guest:So I took a private jet from Phoenix to go to his funeral and then back to Phoenix.

01:13:30Guest:And I remember...

01:13:32Guest:The biggest testament you could have to somebody is to honor them and go see them and then do what you guys have done, which is to be on stage.

01:13:41Guest:Right after my old man died, I was on stage.

01:13:45Guest:So one thing I did learn is that people say all kind of shit like he knows that you love them.

01:13:51Guest:Nah, you gotta tell somebody you love them.

01:13:53Guest:I think that that's just the coward's way.

01:13:56Guest:That's what people say so that they let you off the hook.

01:13:59Guest:But how could he know something?

01:14:00Guest:I didn't tell him.

01:14:02Guest:That is truly a great regret in my professional and personal life.

01:14:06Guest:That you didn't get to say that to Bernie?

01:14:07Guest:That I didn't get to say that to him, yes.

01:14:08Marc:He's another one of the greats that people don't necessarily put up there.

01:14:14Marc:Well, I think in our community he's very good.

01:14:16Marc:Oh, good.

01:14:17Marc:Yes.

01:14:18Marc:But the question I was going to ask though is like, you know, like when I look at, you tried a lot of shit.

01:14:23Marc:I did.

01:14:23Marc:A ton.

01:14:25Marc:A ton.

01:14:25Marc:I mean, I remember when they gave you the CNN show and they didn't have comedy on CNN and you're setting up this panel show and you want it to be informative but funny and it didn't quite catch.

01:14:34Guest:But you know what's funny?

01:14:35Guest:What?

01:14:35Guest:We did a million people a weekend.

01:14:37Guest:Really?

01:14:38Guest:A million.

01:14:38Guest:Yes.

01:14:39Guest:For a weekly show.

01:14:40Guest:For a weekend show.

01:14:41Guest:And they ran it a few times, right?

01:14:43Guest:They ran it a few times and we did it almost, we did it from October all the way to like April.

01:14:50Guest:But what happened was the economy tanked.

01:14:56Guest:And so...

01:14:58Guest:that money that they used to have to have experiments they didn't have anymore.

01:15:01Guest:And Larry King wouldn't let us use his studio.

01:15:04Guest:So I was living in L.A.

01:15:06Guest:and they got me an apartment in New York so I would have to do it and rehearse there and go on the road.

01:15:10Guest:So I was home for 12 hours a week so I had to get, I wanted to see my family.

01:15:16Guest:How many kids you got?

01:15:17Guest:Three.

01:15:18Guest:And so they said, well, either you can do it from, have to do it from New York or you can't do it and that's how it ended.

01:15:23Guest:But the same apartment I have in New York now is the one CNN got me.

01:15:26Guest:Oh, really?

01:15:27Guest:You just kept it?

01:15:28Guest:Yes, I did.

01:15:29Guest:Yes, I did.

01:15:30Marc:And then you did, like, you worked with Jay.

01:15:32Marc:You did a lot of segments for Leno's show.

01:15:34Marc:But you're always, like, at some point, you know, when you look at your career, and, like, I have to do the same thing, where you're, like, you can't look at it as, like, well, I tried a bunch of shit that didn't work out.

01:15:44Marc:Sure, I can.

01:15:45Marc:Right, but you still look at it like that's a career, man.

01:15:48Guest:Right?

01:15:48Guest:I never, I haven't had that much.

01:15:50Guest:It's not that.

01:15:52Guest:To me, um...

01:15:55Guest:It's one of the things I have always loved about you and respected about your kind of journey.

01:16:01Guest:Yeah.

01:16:02Guest:Is that all of that was getting you ready for this moment.

01:16:06Guest:Right.

01:16:06Guest:That's true.

01:16:07Guest:All of it.

01:16:08Guest:Yeah.

01:16:08Guest:So you got to.

01:16:08Guest:So I can't.

01:16:10Guest:Now, like when I look back and, you know.

01:16:13Guest:I've written three books.

01:16:15Guest:I won a Peabody Award.

01:16:16Guest:I got a radio show I dig.

01:16:18Guest:I'm pretty respected.

01:16:20Guest:I can do what I want.

01:16:22Guest:I say what I want.

01:16:23Guest:If a motherfucker asks me a question, they know I'm going to tell them the truth.

01:16:28Guest:And I have opportunities to do things, and I'm asked to do things all the time, and I get to say no a lot.

01:16:35Guest:It's the best.

01:16:36Guest:It is the best, man.

01:16:37Guest:And so I can't...

01:16:39Guest:In the end, and I still comedically love what I do.

01:16:43Guest:Yeah.

01:16:44Marc:Well, the great thing about getting to the age we're at and having had some failures or at least some things that didn't happen is that you become truly fearless at some point.

01:16:58Marc:Right.

01:16:58Marc:At some point, it's like, what's going to fucking happen now?

01:16:59Guest:Right.

01:17:00Guest:What are you going to do?

01:17:01Marc:Right.

01:17:01Guest:I remember when people got so mad at me.

01:17:04Guest:I remember I was on...

01:17:09Guest:Jay Leno and Don Imus thing had happened and those, you know, he called them nappy head hoes and I was on Jay Leno and I said, that was wrong.

01:17:16Guest:Those girls weren't hoes, but they were nappy head.

01:17:18Guest:And what the fucking firestorm that started.

01:17:20Guest:From who?

01:17:21Guest:From the women in the black community were angry and they wanted me to apologize.

01:17:26Guest:And I'm like, I'm not fucking apologizing for a joke.

01:17:28Guest:And they were boycotting me and protesting me.

01:17:31Guest:Really?

01:17:31Guest:Oh man, it was insane.

01:17:33Guest:And then it was bad.

01:17:36Guest:It was horrible.

01:17:36Guest:Like, Steve wouldn't let me on the show because he said, people are mad at you.

01:17:40Guest:And there's a lot of people that wouldn't book me.

01:17:42Guest:Really?

01:17:43Guest:Yes.

01:17:43Marc:Because the black women were mad.

01:17:46Guest:And I said, which was ridiculous because...

01:17:49Guest:My wife is black.

01:17:51Guest:My mistresses have all been black.

01:17:54Guest:So I was clearly making a joke.

01:17:56Guest:But I never felt like you shouldn't have to apologize for a joke.

01:17:59Guest:And I defended a man that made a bad... I think you're disingenuous if you give yourself leeway that you don't give to somebody else.

01:18:06Guest:And it taught me a lot.

01:18:07Guest:It taught me I could take a punch.

01:18:09Guest:And it made me unflinching in my convictions.

01:18:11Guest:I believe what I say.

01:18:12Guest:And I'm willing to, you know, if you don't dig it, I get it.

01:18:15Guest:But fuck you if you can't take a joke.

01:18:17Marc:And you took Megyn Kelly to task, which was beautiful.

01:18:20Guest:Yeah, but you know what I like about people?

01:18:23Guest:People play home games.

01:18:25Guest:Really, Sean Hannity, all those cats, Tucker Carlson, they're cowards because they only play in their cathedrals.

01:18:31Guest:Right.

01:18:32Guest:They only play home games.

01:18:33Marc:That's right.

01:18:33Marc:She was on Fox when you did that, right?

01:18:35Guest:Remember back when she was on Fox when she was a racist?

01:18:37Guest:Totally.

01:18:38Guest:She gets to pretend like she's not.

01:18:39Marc:It ain't working.

01:18:40Guest:I look at her and I'm like, you pretty monster.

01:18:44Guest:It's just because you cook with olive oil, don't mean you don't.

01:18:47Guest:So it was one of those times where I've never been scared to have my- I can't remember.

01:18:54Guest:What was it exactly about?

01:18:56Guest:It was about, I had another book at that time called Black Man White House.

01:18:59Guest:Yeah.

01:19:00Guest:That was the second book?

01:19:02Guest:It was the second book.

01:19:02Guest:It was the oral history of the Obama years.

01:19:04Guest:And it was told how Twain did that oral history kind of thing.

01:19:08Guest:And I pretended like I was there.

01:19:10Guest:It was kind of like Forrest Gump.

01:19:11Guest:I pretended like I was there doing all of these things.

01:19:14Guest:And it was hilarious.

01:19:15Guest:It had done really well.

01:19:16Guest:And we were originally there to talk about that.

01:19:18Guest:But then Philando Castillo got killed and there had been this rash of shootings.

01:19:22Guest:And so it morphed to that kind of conversation.

01:19:25Guest:And she had that dude, Mark Furman, come out before me unbeknownst to me.

01:19:29Guest:The LAPD guy.

01:19:30Guest:Yeah.

01:19:30Guest:I'm like a disgrace.

01:19:31Guest:The monster, yeah.

01:19:32Guest:Look, when you are so racist that you get a black murderer off, you're not an expert that they should ever use.

01:19:39Guest:The only place he could be an expert on the fight, so we had this huge fight,

01:19:43Guest:And, you know, like 30 million people saw it.

01:19:46Guest:Yeah, I remember watching it.

01:19:48Guest:And then I was so mad and incensed that I wrote this book, How Not to Get Shot, and other advice from white people.

01:19:55Guest:Oh, you think that was part of the trigger of it?

01:19:57Guest:It was a trigger.

01:19:58Guest:It definitely, I think that that's, and it took me a year or two, about a year to sell the premise.

01:20:04Guest:And my agent, my book agent, Richard, and Peter, my publisher, my editor,

01:20:11Guest:And Doug, who wrote the book with me.

01:20:14Guest:But thank you to white benign racism and white indifference, because it is catapulting such a level of creativity, whether it's LeBron James with his shut up and dribble because of Laura Ingraham.

01:20:31Guest:Uh-huh.

01:20:31Guest:Or this book, because of Megyn Kelly, it's that blonde, white, indifferent, benign, but vitriolic racism that just is really kind of what everybody... Ingram's not benign.

01:20:45Guest:No, she's not benign.

01:20:47Guest:Megan's pretending to be benign.

01:20:50Guest:But they use the same peroxide.

01:20:52Guest:I'll say that.

01:20:53Guest:But thank you to them.

01:20:54Marc:Yeah, this book is funny, but it's also, I'd imagine it's probably pretty hilarious to the black community.

01:21:02Marc:Yeah.

01:21:02Marc:But it's also a pretty scathing fucking indictment of white people.

01:21:07Marc:It is.

01:21:08Marc:Yeah.

01:21:09Guest:But I laughed at it.

01:21:10Guest:Yeah.

01:21:10Guest:Well, because you have perspective.

01:21:11Guest:Right.

01:21:12Guest:Each chapter is like an amalgamation of all the things that white people tell black people all the time.

01:21:19Guest:Yeah, and all the stuff you've experienced.

01:21:21Guest:Right, like how to name your kids, where to drive.

01:21:28Marc:How not to get shot by the police, how to act, and then the subcategories are how to be nice and quiet, what kind of music should you listen to, stop making white people say the N-word, how to not come from a single-parent household.

01:21:39Marc:That's tricky.

01:21:40Marc:Right.

01:21:40Guest:Yeah, it is.

01:21:41Guest:But it's all those, you know, they come from these cities.

01:21:43Guest:Do you know that if you listen to white people, you think every black person lives in Chicago?

01:21:48Guest:Like, I don't care what happens in Sacramento, they go, what about Chicago?

01:21:50Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:21:51Guest:What about Chicago?

01:21:52Guest:Most people don't.

01:21:53Guest:That would be like, that's casting it.

01:21:55Guest:That's saying everybody, that Chicago is really kind of what...

01:21:59Guest:You know, they represent the moral failing that we all have.

01:22:03Guest:And that is really kind of biased and racist.

01:22:07Guest:But you would never say that because that, you know, a lot of people die of opiates in West Virginia.

01:22:14Guest:But that isn't indicative.

01:22:15Guest:That isn't the total.

01:22:17Guest:That isn't what white people are.

01:22:19Guest:So it's amazing.

01:22:21Marc:But, you know, the white people are keeping that shit under wraps because of shame.

01:22:26Marc:Because of shame.

01:22:27Marc:Yes.

01:22:28Marc:You know, like the amount of white people that are dying from that shit from all classes.

01:22:33Marc:You know, like, and there's an amazing book called Dreamland about the opioid epidemic.

01:22:37Marc:But it's like, you know, 50, 60,000, 70,000 a year.

01:22:41Marc:But they can't even address it.

01:22:43Marc:Like, you know, the black community had no, no, they had to address crack.

01:22:48Guest:Yeah, because we were going to jail.

01:22:49Guest:Yeah.

01:22:50Guest:And dying.

01:22:51Guest:And crazy.

01:22:52Guest:Yeah.

01:22:52Guest:It's like when they bling up black on black crime, it's like saying, well,

01:22:57Guest:If there was a bank, they got robbed all the time.

01:23:00Guest:And the police get to do it because, look, they're scared.

01:23:02Guest:It's black-on-black crime, which is really bullshit because crime is about proximity.

01:23:06Guest:Black neighborhoods aren't any more dangerous than white neighborhoods just because they have black people in them.

01:23:12Guest:They're dangerous more inherently dangerous because they have poor black people in them.

01:23:15Guest:Show me a safe, poor neighborhood.

01:23:16Guest:You won't be able to because they're—

01:23:18Guest:Well, class is not something that's talked about.

01:23:22Guest:Because they want it to, they want those to be the marching orders.

01:23:26Guest:But I will say that just like if something happened to you, climb is about proximity.

01:23:31Guest:If something happened to you, they would talk to your girlfriend first or your family first.

01:23:35Guest:They want to, wait, you know, yeah, I get it.

01:23:37Guest:I get all that.

01:23:38Guest:Let's see who this.

01:23:39Guest:And that's the same thing.

01:23:40Guest:You tend to hurt the people you're around.

01:23:42Guest:But I'm...

01:23:44Guest:that people have used, I fundamentally believe that there's never been a situation that has been visited on black people or people of color that was so horrible, so atrocious, so gruesome, so brutal, that America went, you know, that's enough.

01:24:00Guest:I don't think they've ever been so, whether it's Emmett Till or no matter what it is, I don't care if it's a child strapped to a fucking fan, a motor and thrown and mutilated.

01:24:11Guest:America's tolerance, they have a high tolerance for the agony of black people.

01:24:16Guest:They just don't care about it.

01:24:18Marc:They're indifferent.

01:24:21Marc:The question I had in my mind, and obviously I can't speak to you as a representative for all black people,

01:24:27Marc:But I like when this administration took control and when Sessions was made attorney general, I have to assume that, you know, as as disheartening and heartbreaking and horrible as it was, there was some element within the black community that was like, here we go again.

01:24:44Guest:My father said, we've seen this before.

01:24:47Guest:Right.

01:24:48Guest:They're like.

01:24:49Guest:elected officials being racist and hating black people isn't new.

01:24:53Guest:It's retro.

01:24:54Guest:It's really been very few people in the Oval Office or any other office that didn't... But we didn't know it as viscerally as his generation.

01:25:03Marc:Like our generation...

01:25:04Marc:You know, because we're the same age and we've been through some presidencies, but to be shamelessly racist and provoke racism was a little before us.

01:25:13Guest:I would say, like, I grew up, I lived in Los Angeles doing a Watts riot, so I can't tell.

01:25:18Guest:I'm the first one of my mother's children, the first one, that had the full rights of an American citizen.

01:25:24Guest:The first one.

01:25:25Mm-hmm.

01:25:25Guest:So, I mean, although I wasn't a voter and all that, so I wasn't aware.

01:25:30Guest:I mean, obviously I wasn't aware, but it still happened in my life.

01:25:32Guest:Right, right, right.

01:25:33Guest:So I have, you know, it still happened in my life.

01:25:36Guest:You know, the fact that the Voters' Rights Act has to be, you know, it's not in perpetuity.

01:25:41Guest:You have to keep voting on it and doing it over and over again.

01:25:43Guest:So it's just, I think we get to detach ourselves from kind of everyday experiences if we're not having them.

01:25:52Guest:But I don't think this seems...

01:25:55Guest:Trump and his kind seem familiar to me.

01:25:58Guest:Yeah.

01:25:59Guest:They do.

01:26:00Guest:They don't seem... If you look at the popularized notion of the average American around the world, the perception of us, he embodies all of it.

01:26:11Guest:Yeah, on some level, he's like, you know, it makes complete sense that he's president.

01:26:16Guest:So when you look at how we perceive in Europe, how we perceive bellicose, fat, lazy, bully, immoral,

01:26:24Guest:What is he?

01:26:25Guest:Greedy.

01:26:26Guest:Right.

01:26:26Guest:So he embodies.

01:26:28Guest:So I've always said this, that Barack Obama was who this nation aspired to be.

01:26:34Guest:Trump is who we are.

01:26:36Guest:Yeah.

01:26:36Guest:Terrible.

01:26:37Guest:It's true.

01:26:38Guest:Trump is who we are.

01:26:39Guest:Yeah.

01:26:39Guest:This couldn't live.

01:26:40Guest:This couldn't.

01:26:42Guest:And then what cracks me up is when people go, well, you know,

01:26:45Guest:You know, he can't look at the unemployment rate for black people.

01:26:47Guest:It's at a historic low, so how can it be racist?

01:26:50Guest:I beg to differ.

01:26:51Guest:During slavery, it was zero percent, and they hated niggas.

01:26:58Guest:You can work at two months.

01:27:00Guest:Yeah.

01:27:00Guest:So let's not pretend the fact that people are employed means that we have a level of acceptance and tolerance.

01:27:08Guest:Everything's okay.

01:27:09Marc:No, it's not.

01:27:09Marc:Yeah.

01:27:10Marc:Yeah.

01:27:10Marc:Well, man, it's great to talk to you.

01:27:11Marc:Always, man.

01:27:12Marc:I'm glad I got you at the book.

01:27:14Marc:It's funny.

01:27:15Marc:It's good.

01:27:15Marc:It's informative.

01:27:16Marc:It made me feel, you know, it made me look at myself.

01:27:18Marc:Yeah.

01:27:19Marc:What'd you feel about it?

01:27:21Guest:Well, you've already done it.

01:27:22Guest:You let a black dude in your garage and it's been great.

01:27:25Guest:Yeah.

01:27:25Guest:I'm taking something.

01:27:26Guest:Do you know what I'm saying?

01:27:26Guest:Yeah.

01:27:26Guest:Take whatever you want on there.

01:27:28Guest:Just don't hurt me.

01:27:33Marc:Thanks, man.

01:27:33Marc:What a pleasure, man.

01:27:39Marc:D.L.

01:27:40Marc:Hughley.

01:27:40Marc:I love it.

01:27:41Marc:I loved having him here.

01:27:42Marc:Again, Contrarian, his new special is now available to stream on Netflix and his most recent book, How Not to Get Shot and Other Advice from White People is available wherever you get books.

01:27:53Marc:Oh boy.

01:27:53Marc:Oh yeah.

01:27:55Marc:All right.

01:27:56Marc:I'll pick up an axe.

01:27:58Marc:It's been a while.

01:27:59Marc:How my fingers.

01:28:01Marc:Let's see what happens.

01:28:04Guest:.

01:28:26Guest:.

01:28:49Guest:Boomer lives.