Episode 954 - Gale Anne Hurd

Episode 954 • Released September 26, 2018 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:All right, let's do this.

00:00:10Marc:How are you?

00:00:11Marc:What the fuckers?

00:00:12Marc:What the fuck buddies?

00:00:13Marc:What the fuck stirs?

00:00:14Marc:What's happening?

00:00:14Marc:I'm Mark Marin.

00:00:15Marc:This is my podcast.

00:00:18Marc:Oh, man.

00:00:19Marc:So today is it.

00:00:21Marc:Today is the day.

00:00:23Marc:I don't even acknowledge it that often.

00:00:27Marc:I guess I do.

00:00:29Marc:But I... Okay.

00:00:33Marc:I'm 55 years old today.

00:00:36Marc:This is my birthday, people.

00:00:39Marc:It is my birthday.

00:00:41Marc:I'm telling you.

00:00:42Marc:Because I don't necessarily think you should know.

00:00:44Marc:I don't necessarily... I don't parade my birthday around.

00:00:49Marc:I'm not ashamed of it in any way.

00:00:51Marc:But on some level, I have made it this far.

00:00:55Marc:So I should let you know.

00:00:57Marc:Today is my birthday.

00:00:59Marc:Thursday, September 27th is my 55th birthday.

00:01:04Marc:I was born in 1963 on Colnidra Eve...

00:01:11Marc:That's how everything has changed.

00:01:12Marc:I mean, I don't know what happens with calendars, but I was born the night that Jews around the world were repenting for their sins and fasting into the next day.

00:01:23Marc:And I came out crying with a slight eating disorder.

00:01:29Marc:I'm happy to be 55.

00:01:31Marc:I'm happy to be alive.

00:01:35Marc:I'm happy that things have worked out for me personally so far.

00:01:38Marc:I'm unhappy with the state of the world, but who isn't?

00:01:45Marc:What happens on your birthday?

00:01:46Marc:I'm sure my mother will text and do her usual...

00:01:48Marc:leaving a voicemail of her singing happy birthday, which is both sweet and a little off key.

00:01:58Marc:But, you know, it's not her job to be a professional singer.

00:02:00Marc:We'll see what happens.

00:02:02Marc:A couple of things I want to tell you about.

00:02:03Marc:First, before I get away from myself here and start talking about me, I'd like to say that my guest is Gail Ann Hurd.

00:02:11Marc:a film producer, a TV producer.

00:02:14Marc:She's produced amazing blockbuster movies, The Terminator, The Abyss, Aliens, Armageddon.

00:02:26Marc:She's a producer of The Walking Dead.

00:02:28Marc:But she's here today.

00:02:29Marc:I got an opportunity to talk to her and I'm like, I don't talk to many producers and this should be pretty interesting.

00:02:37Marc:So that's happening.

00:02:38Marc:That's going to happen for all of us.

00:02:41Marc:I will be performing in Los Angeles at a small venue October, I believe, 4th.

00:02:47Marc:That's a Thursday at 8 o'clock.

00:02:49Marc:And Saturday, October 6th at 10 o'clock p.m.

00:02:53Marc:This is at Dynasty Typewriter.

00:02:55Marc:It's down in Koreatown, and it's supposedly a great little theater.

00:03:00Marc:I miss the Steve Allen Theater, which is no longer with us, where I could work out stuff.

00:03:04Marc:So I'm going to do a couple of fairly tight evenings of riffage.

00:03:10Marc:Yeah, I've certainly zeroed in on the hour 15 or so that I'm working on as the new material.

00:03:15Marc:But but it's always good to work out in a small room.

00:03:18Marc:So if you want to come to that, I don't know if it's sold out.

00:03:21Marc:I don't think it is.

00:03:22Marc:That's Dynasty Typewriter here in Los Angeles.

00:03:24Marc:You can go to WTF pod dot com slash tour for the link for those tickets.

00:03:30Marc:So that's a bit of business.

00:03:32Marc:Also, October 13th in Phoenix, Arizona.

00:03:34Marc:I'm sorry I'm not doing a second show.

00:03:37Marc:New York Comedy Festival, November 10th in New York City at the Beacon is selling.

00:03:42Marc:Well, there are some tickets left.

00:03:45Marc:I would get them if you're interested in going to that in New York.

00:03:48Marc:Also, another heads up for New York people.

00:03:50Marc:This is not my show, but I think it is a show that would be worth going to.

00:03:55Marc:In a lot of ways, for several different reasons, it sounds tremendous.

00:04:01Marc:It's tomorrow, actually.

00:04:02Marc:So you got to go get tickets or you got to show up and go.

00:04:06Marc:It's tomorrow, September 28th.

00:04:08Marc:It's at the Knockdown Center in Queens.

00:04:11Marc:It's called Flip These Houses.

00:04:13Marc:It's a concert celebrating songs of protest and political consciousness.

00:04:18Marc:But...

00:04:18Marc:But this is sort of like astounding.

00:04:20Marc:These are great old folk songs and also modern songs.

00:04:23Marc:I have a song list.

00:04:25Marc:I don't need to go through that with you.

00:04:26Marc:I should just be able to tell you the artists that are going to be doing Woody Guthrie, Bob Dylan, Marvin Gaye.

00:04:32Marc:There's just a lot of different songs that are being covered.

00:04:36Marc:By Craig Finn, Britt Daniel, Nicole Atkins, Ted Leo, Laura Cantrell are a few of the performers.

00:04:43Marc:As I said before, they're going to be doing songs by Bob Dylan, Patti Smith, David Bowie, Nina Simone, dozens more.

00:04:50Marc:The goal is to support Get Out the Vote campaigns with proceeds going to Power the Polls, the Hometown Project, Rise and Resist, and the Center for Popular Democracy.

00:05:00Marc:Go to flipthesehouses.org for tickets.

00:05:03Marc:Again, this is at...

00:05:04Marc:The Knockdown Center in Queens tomorrow night, Friday, September 28th.

00:05:09Marc:It should be a pretty amazing show.

00:05:11Marc:I think a lot of people may not even be conscious of some of the amazing songs that happened way back in the day.

00:05:19Marc:Sounds like a nice day, nice evening.

00:05:21Marc:Go see it.

00:05:23Marc:I think I told some of you guys...

00:05:26Marc:i've been i've been going to doctors a bit not because i'm losing my mind just because uh you know you go get a checkup but i've had this had this thing on my head and uh and i think i i reflected on some oddball late stage george carlin bit where he talks about just noticing a bump on your head well what happened to me and

00:05:49Marc:It happened and I was playing with it and I was hitting it with my comb.

00:05:53Marc:And of course, I was nervous about it.

00:05:55Marc:When a bump arises, you want to get it dealt with.

00:05:59Marc:Don't let your bump sit.

00:06:01Marc:Okay, folks, if I can say anything today, it's don't let the bump sit and fester.

00:06:06Marc:Don't wait till the bump gets bigger.

00:06:08Marc:If a bump is there and a bump wasn't there before and you know it not to be a pimple, go get it checked.

00:06:15Marc:So I went to my skin doctor.

00:06:17Marc:And because I didn't know, is this a is this a cancer bump or is it just one of the general old man bumps?

00:06:24Marc:Because the old man bumps and spots start to happen after a certain age.

00:06:28Marc:I know this is a very sexy conversation I'm having with you people.

00:06:31Marc:I know it's something you want to hear.

00:06:33Marc:Old man bumps and spots do start to surface.

00:06:37Marc:So she took one look at it, said it was an old man bump.

00:06:40Marc:It has a clinical name, but that's what I'll call it.

00:06:43Marc:And then she said, do you want me to burn it off?

00:06:45Marc:You want me to knock it out?

00:06:46Marc:You want me to freeze that baby?

00:06:48Marc:I'm like, yeah, I'm okay.

00:06:49Marc:And then she walked out.

00:06:50Marc:I'm like, yo, wait, you know what?

00:06:52Marc:Let's freeze it off.

00:06:54Marc:So now I'm waiting for my old man bump to come off.

00:07:00Marc:Exciting stuff, right?

00:07:01Marc:Happy birthday to me.

00:07:03Marc:I'm trying to get to know my new neighborhood, but I'm walking around.

00:07:07Marc:It's a nice neighborhood.

00:07:09Marc:It's not insanely fancy, but it's a nice neighborhood.

00:07:11Marc:But here's an interesting thing you can do when you walk around your neighborhood.

00:07:15Marc:Look at telephone poles.

00:07:18Marc:Look at what's posted on telephone poles.

00:07:22Marc:And if it's just a random...

00:07:24Marc:poem or perhaps rambling of a schizophrenic mind that's just there on the pole it makes you wonder hey who are my neighbors is this something they wrote is it something that you know I just saw this it was actually someone came over to the house and they parked across the street in the wrong place and they were visiting my house a future guest all right it was Anna Faris

00:07:48Marc:And she goes, I thought you lived in this house because of this thing that was posted on the telephone pole.

00:07:56Marc:Here, I'll read it to you.

00:07:57Marc:An unsatiated full tilt feeding frenzy has thus begun on cereal box tops, on still barely writhing earthen complexion.

00:08:06Marc:These insects as children pick over the red fire, soft and gelatinous corpse of an octopus, leaving its newly...

00:08:13Marc:dug hole exposed for their own entertainment.

00:08:15Marc:In tattered, splintered array, this playground of a shipwreck, the only failure within miles to serve due purpose and instead danced upon till inches and inches slowly sink deeper.

00:08:27Marc:Does quicksand really exist?

00:08:29Marc:This was the village it took to pick over mankind's foibles and ultimate lack of progression.

00:08:34Marc:For in youth, unless it be mother, elderism doesn't stand a chance.

00:08:39Marc:And then it just says suitor, I guess, is the author.

00:08:45Marc:But this was on a on a telephone pole stapled in in my nice, relatively suburban neighborhood.

00:08:54Marc:And for some reason that made Anna Faris thought that I was the author and she must be at my house.

00:09:02Marc:So that's made my neighborhood a little mysterious to me.

00:09:05Marc:I will do more research.

00:09:08Marc:That I will tell you.

00:09:10Marc:I hope it's not wrong of me to read the poetry posted on telephone poles.

00:09:14Marc:I didn't quite understand it.

00:09:15Marc:Not sure why I read it.

00:09:17Marc:It all just happened.

00:09:18Marc:So what else do I want to tell you?

00:09:19Marc:Health things.

00:09:21Marc:I smashed my finger this morning.

00:09:25Marc:Yeah, smashed it.

00:09:27Marc:I was working out.

00:09:28Marc:I've been compulsively working out.

00:09:30Marc:I have to admit that I've been locked into a fairly regimented eating situation.

00:09:37Marc:I've trimmed down a bit and I've been just exercising like a fucking lunatic.

00:09:42Marc:And somehow or another, I was dropping some barbells as I was laying on a bench press.

00:09:47Marc:And I guess there were some other barbells there where I dropped it.

00:09:50Marc:It bounced up, smashed my index finger.

00:09:54Marc:between one barbell and another by complete fucking ridiculous coincidence.

00:09:59Marc:How do these things time out right?

00:10:00Marc:But there's that moment.

00:10:02Marc:You know that moment when you hurt yourself and, you know, if you're lucky, it's not major.

00:10:06Marc:But, you know, even if it is major, it's like that time right before you get into a car accident where you have about a second to know.

00:10:13Marc:That's a little different.

00:10:14Marc:But that moment right after something really hurts you, there's a vibration that emanates from the place it went down.

00:10:21Marc:Just this sort of like... And you have sort of a full-body tinnitus experience.

00:10:27Marc:It's just this...

00:10:28Marc:kind of like expansion of a pain vibration.

00:10:32Marc:And then all of a sudden it converges.

00:10:34Marc:As I look down on my hand, I'm like, holy fuck.

00:10:38Marc:And it's got that weird white color before blood starts happening.

00:10:41Marc:And I realize that that nail doesn't look like it's on anymore.

00:10:46Marc:sorry i'm sorry you eating yeah it didn't come off but it doesn't look good but i guess fortunately i didn't break my finger but i swear to god that weird adrenaline and cortisol rush or whatever happens again i'm fortunate that it wasn't a major injury but man i got jacked i got jacked i we put gauze on it and now i guess i just wait it's just a waiting game

00:11:12Marc:I can wait till my nail turns black and whatever happens after that.

00:11:16Marc:I fucked up my picking hand.

00:11:19Marc:So I can actually hear the hearts breaking that there is not going to be any noodling after the show today.

00:11:26Marc:I can hear it.

00:11:27Marc:Yeah.

00:11:28Marc:So happy birthday to me.

00:11:29Marc:I get to watch my fingernail turn black and maybe fall off.

00:11:36Marc:That's a gift, right?

00:11:38Marc:All right.

00:11:38Marc:So now I'm happy to share with you a conversation I had with Gail Ann Hurd.

00:11:42Marc:She's a big time movie producer.

00:11:46Marc:She produced a lot.

00:11:50Marc:I've mentioned it already in the show.

00:11:52Marc:Terminator, Aliens, The Abyss, The Walking Dead.

00:11:55Marc:But she's got a new film coming out called Hellfest, which opens in theaters tomorrow, September 28th.

00:12:01Marc:And as I said, she's also the producer of The Walking Dead, which returns October 7th.

00:12:05Marc:And she's a producer of the Amazon series Lore, based on the podcast.

00:12:10Marc:Season two premieres October 19th.

00:12:12Marc:This is me and Gail Ann Hurd.

00:12:15Marc:I've talked to other people who started with Roger Corman.

00:12:24Marc:I talked to Ron Howard.

00:12:27Marc:And I've talked to Joe Dante.

00:12:29Marc:And I've talked to Roger Corman.

00:12:31Marc:And you started there.

00:12:34Guest:I did.

00:12:34Guest:That was my first job out of college.

00:12:36Marc:Where'd you go to college?

00:12:38Guest:Stanford.

00:12:39Marc:Really?

00:12:39Guest:That was Roger's alma mater.

00:12:41Marc:It was?

00:12:41Marc:Yes.

00:12:42Guest:He has a degree in chemical engineering.

00:12:44Marc:That's right.

00:12:45Marc:Yes.

00:12:45Marc:Did you grow up in Los Angeles?

00:12:47Guest:I was born in L.A., fourth generation, Los Angelina.

00:12:50Guest:Wow, yeah.

00:12:51Guest:But my parents moved to Palm Springs, so I actually graduated from Palm Springs High School.

00:12:56Marc:Palm Springs.

00:12:57Marc:I can't imagine growing up there.

00:12:59Marc:Was it nice?

00:12:59Guest:Nor could I. Yeah.

00:13:01Guest:And I did, so.

00:13:02Marc:But, like, what was that community like?

00:13:04Marc:It just were, like, retired people and show business.

00:13:07Marc:Like, I can't imagine.

00:13:08Guest:That's what people don't understand is that the economy that...

00:13:12Guest:is required to support golf courses and hotels and all of that is a very blue collar community.

00:13:18Guest:Sure.

00:13:19Guest:Right.

00:13:19Guest:And it's very multi-ethnic.

00:13:21Guest:Yeah.

00:13:22Guest:So it's not what people think.

00:13:23Guest:I mean, the wealthy families didn't stay there year round and have their kids go to Palm Springs High School.

00:13:30Marc:Right.

00:13:31Marc:So there was definitely this class divide.

00:13:33Guest:Yeah.

00:13:34Marc:Yeah.

00:13:34Marc:And there was like the resort people and then there was the working people.

00:13:38Guest:Yeah.

00:13:38Guest:They're the townies and the out of town.

00:13:41Marc:Right.

00:13:42Marc:So there's almost like a summer camp kind of vibe.

00:13:44Marc:Like people would come every year and there'd be like weird relationships between.

00:13:48Marc:I'm just talking about kids.

00:13:50Guest:You know, we didn't meet the people who were from out of town.

00:13:53Guest:No, no.

00:13:54Guest:Because they had a totally different social circle than we did.

00:14:00Guest:So we were the locals.

00:14:01Guest:We hung out together and we tried to leave town for spring break or the other, you know, big weekends or weeks that people would come and invade.

00:14:10Marc:And ruin the town?

00:14:12Guest:Yeah, we looked at it that way.

00:14:13Marc:And what business was your folks in?

00:14:17Guest:My dad had retired and he had been in real estate.

00:14:21Marc:Yeah.

00:14:21Marc:Here in LA?

00:14:22Marc:Yes.

00:14:23Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:14:24Guest:And then my mother had been his secretary.

00:14:28Marc:Old school.

00:14:30Guest:Very old school.

00:14:31Marc:But you went to Stanford.

00:14:32Marc:So what was your big plan?

00:14:35Guest:I wanted to be a marine biologist.

00:14:38Marc:Well, you made the abyss.

00:14:39Guest:I did.

00:14:40Guest:So, you know, that was my one contribution to marine sciences.

00:14:46Marc:Did you study it?

00:14:47Marc:I mean, did you go full on?

00:14:49Marc:I wasn't that smart.

00:14:50Guest:No, the sciences at Stanford.

00:14:52Marc:Yeah.

00:14:53Guest:I mean, I did really well in the humanities.

00:14:58Guest:Right, yeah.

00:14:59Guest:But I was definitely not the caliber to succeed in math and science.

00:15:05Marc:So you didn't do any of the sciences?

00:15:08Guest:Well, I took calculus and I took a couple of other courses.

00:15:11Guest:And I took intro to computing.

00:15:14Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:15:15Marc:And that was like a new thing then?

00:15:17Guest:That was when they had punch cards.

00:15:20Guest:Right.

00:15:20Guest:And we learned Algol W programming language.

00:15:24Guest:Uh-huh.

00:15:24Guest:And the IBM 360.

00:15:26Marc:The giant?

00:15:27Guest:Computer that literally was less than the computing power of your phone.

00:15:33Marc:That's crazy.

00:15:34Guest:took up an entire building.

00:15:37Marc:And you learned that and how to work one of those or how to program it, right?

00:15:41Guest:Yes, I did.

00:15:41Marc:So did that come in handy?

00:15:43Guest:No.

00:15:44Marc:But it acquainted you with the machinery.

00:15:46Guest:It made me fear technology.

00:15:50Guest:I mean, when I started Stanford, we were still using slide rules.

00:15:54Marc:Really?

00:15:55Guest:Yes, because I started in 1973.

00:15:57Guest:Oh.

00:15:58Guest:And the Texas Instruments Calculator was introduced, and they were 400 and some odd dollars.

00:16:08Marc:I remember them.

00:16:09Guest:Yes.

00:16:09Marc:They had pie on it.

00:16:10Guest:Yes.

00:16:11Marc:Yeah, square roots, the whole thing.

00:16:13Marc:And they were like the nerds that had them.

00:16:14Marc:It was like the most amazing thing.

00:16:16Guest:It was.

00:16:17Guest:And unfortunately, that's when you started to see the difference between the haves and the have-nots because you were allowed to use them in class.

00:16:25Guest:So the people who could afford a $300 to $400 outlay of cash for that were so much more advantaged than the people still on slide rolls.

00:16:34Marc:Oh, and they just let that be?

00:16:36Marc:Yeah.

00:16:38Marc:Wow, it's sort of built in that sort of class separation that they're going to succeed and you're going to have to work harder to do it.

00:16:45Marc:yep so when you get out though 73 the world's pretty crazy it's pretty exciting right uh well i graduated in 77 yeah and um the world was pretty crazy degrees in economics and communications that's what you came out with yeah and what made you decide to do the movie thing

00:17:05Guest:When I was in my junior year, I happened to attend a foreign study program in England because that was the only foreign language I spoke.

00:17:14Marc:Yeah, and you wanted to get out.

00:17:16Guest:Big English.

00:17:18Guest:I wanted to see what the world was like outside the United States.

00:17:22Guest:And they happened to have an intensive program in British film and broadcasting as well as economics.

00:17:28Guest:And that was my first introduction to taking film and TV classes.

00:17:33Marc:And you just did it because you were interested?

00:17:35Guest:Well, I did it because I was interested and also there weren't that many other classes offered.

00:17:43Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:17:44Guest:And I fell in love with it.

00:17:46Marc:So who was there?

00:17:47Marc:What was the thing that kind of blew your mind about it?

00:17:52Guest:Well, to know that I was taking a class where we saw the top documentaries and top feature films and met with the people who created them was really mind-blowing to me.

00:18:06Marc:Do you remember any of the directors?

00:18:07Guest:One of the Asquiths.

00:18:10Guest:Yeah.

00:18:11Guest:We met Sir Michael Balkin, who was the Ealing from the Ealing comedies.

00:18:15Guest:Yeah.

00:18:17Guest:And we met a number of smaller directors, and it was co-taught by the head of the British Film Institute.

00:18:30Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:18:30Guest:And documentary was taught by Basil Wright, who was one of the founders at the National Film Board of Canada.

00:18:36Oh.

00:18:36Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:18:37Guest:Along with John Grierson.

00:18:38Marc:So it was documentaries that really moved you initially.

00:18:40Guest:Both.

00:18:41Marc:Yeah.

00:18:41Guest:It was both.

00:18:42Marc:And you did a documentary a few years ago, right?

00:18:44Guest:I've done multiple.

00:18:45Guest:Yeah.

00:18:45Guest:I had one that came out this year.

00:18:47Marc:Was that the man killer one?

00:18:48Guest:Man killer about the first woman elected principal chief of the Cherokee Nation, Wilma Mankiller.

00:18:53Marc:Now, how does a story like that come to you?

00:18:56Guest:Well, that was my third.

00:18:58Guest:Yeah.

00:18:58Guest:What was the first one?

00:18:59Guest:The first one was about the true story of the Navajo who served as co-talkers during World War II.

00:19:04Marc:Oh, I saw that one.

00:19:05Marc:Yeah.

00:19:06Marc:That was good.

00:19:07Guest:And then the second one- They based a feature on that, too, didn't they?

00:19:12Guest:Well, that was not the true story.

00:19:15Marc:Right.

00:19:15Marc:Yeah.

00:19:15Guest:but being really that happens in movie scale yeah I know I know that's why I'm saying I feel like I feel like a fraud because you know certainly we're not going to land on an asteroid and blow it up like in Armageddon I thought I thought I had a lot of hope for that happening I thought everything was taken care of no no but they do have a near earth objects division oh good that's trying to protect us by mapping these risks to you know our future

00:19:44Marc:No real method to destroying them, but at least we can know it's coming.

00:19:47Guest:Exactly.

00:19:48Marc:Oh, good.

00:19:48Marc:Well, that's kind of cold comfort, but okay.

00:19:52Marc:So the Navajo Code Crackers was the first doc.

00:19:56Marc:Right.

00:19:57Guest:And they've all been for PBS.

00:19:59Guest:And I partnered with Native American women.

00:20:02Guest:Valerie Redhorse has directed all of them.

00:20:04Guest:Uh-huh.

00:20:04Guest:And she's of Cherokee descent.

00:20:06Guest:Yeah.

00:20:07Guest:So it was perfect telling Wilma Mankiller's story being a Cherokee woman.

00:20:12Marc:She was the first president of the Cherokee Nation?

00:20:14Guest:The first principal chief.

00:20:16Marc:Principal chief.

00:20:17Guest:The first woman.

00:20:18Marc:Yeah.

00:20:19Marc:And when something like that, as a producer, does she come to you, or is this something you were interested in?

00:20:25Guest:First of all, she passed away in 2010.

00:20:28Guest:And we were actually approached by PBS, by Vision Maker Media, which is the native voices arm of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

00:20:39Marc:And has something like that been something you were interested in before or was it a whole new thing?

00:20:43Marc:Seems sort of specific.

00:20:46Guest:It's good.

00:20:46Guest:You know, I read a fictional script that was the impetus for me to get involved in Native stories.

00:20:56Guest:And I've worked with a lot of indigenous filmmakers.

00:21:00Uh-huh.

00:21:00Guest:And it seemed to me that whatever I could do to help get these stories told and to have a wider viewing public, it was important for me to do so because heaven knows there's no money in it.

00:21:12Guest:Right.

00:21:14Guest:Right.

00:21:14Guest:So, you know, these are the most marginalized people and this was their land.

00:21:20Guest:That's right.

00:21:22Guest:Yeah.

00:21:23Guest:And I think we need to remind ourselves about that.

00:21:26Marc:Yeah, it's it's it's interesting because as a producer, you do have the the freedom to to do any any project really that you want.

00:21:35Marc:And, you know, and after the arc of like, you know, science fiction films and horror films and stuff that, you know, that you start to use your power like that's great must feel good to do that.

00:21:44Guest:To me, these are important stories, and I really want to do things that keep me interested.

00:21:52Marc:Was that always the case?

00:21:53Guest:Yes.

00:21:54Guest:Yeah.

00:21:55Guest:A couple of times, people talk me into producing things that I just didn't understand.

00:22:00Guest:Like what?

00:22:01Guest:There was a movie called Downtown that I did, and I just didn't understand it.

00:22:08Guest:It was sort of a buddy cop comedy.

00:22:12Guest:I couldn't add anything to it.

00:22:14Guest:I couldn't make it better.

00:22:15Guest:And so then what am I doing?

00:22:18Guest:I'm not the kind of producer who just puts my name on something.

00:22:21Marc:It was too finite.

00:22:24Marc:It wasn't of the imagination enough, maybe.

00:22:26Guest:But, you know, I got to work with Richard Benjamin, who directed it, who was fantastic.

00:22:32Guest:And Forrest Whitaker was one of the stars.

00:22:35Guest:So, you know, what I do like to do is mix things up, you know, in terms of working with people in front of and behind the camera who might not have leading role opportunities.

00:22:48Guest:I mean, Forrest was not someone at the time who was being cast in leading roles.

00:22:51Marc:Right, right.

00:22:52Marc:So let's go back to Corman.

00:22:54Marc:So you leave Stanford and you do the thing in England.

00:22:59Guest:Well, I was still at Stanford during that time.

00:23:02Marc:The last year?

00:23:03Guest:It was my junior year.

00:23:04Marc:Okay.

00:23:05Marc:So you come back to Stanford and you're like, I want to be in movies.

00:23:07Guest:I want to make movies.

00:23:09Guest:No, I thought that was fun.

00:23:11Marc:Yeah.

00:23:12Yeah.

00:23:12Guest:I have no idea how to pursue a career in it.

00:23:15Guest:So my path was very different.

00:23:19Guest:One of my professors was a gentleman who teaches to this day now at San Diego State.

00:23:26Guest:I mean, at San Francisco State, Stephen Kovacs.

00:23:29Guest:And he'd been hired by Roger Corman to be head of physical production.

00:23:33Guest:And he recommended Roger to me.

00:23:35Guest:So I got a letter out of the blue.

00:23:38Marc:You told him you were interested, though.

00:23:40Guest:Well, he knew that I was interested.

00:23:41Guest:And even though I failed miserably in science and a little less so in math, I was excellent in the humanities.

00:23:52Guest:And I graduated in the top of my class in the humanities.

00:23:57Guest:And Roger was looking for one of the smart people from the communications department.

00:24:03Marc:For any specific reason?

00:24:05Guest:As an assistant.

00:24:06Guest:Okay.

00:24:07Guest:He always wanted people that, you know, he wanted people who were smart.

00:24:11Marc:Yeah.

00:24:12Guest:I mean, look, Francis Ford Coppola, Martin Scorsese, Jim Cameron.

00:24:16Marc:Well, were they assistants?

00:24:19Guest:Or did they come in as filmmakers?

00:24:20Guest:No, they came in as filmmakers.

00:24:21Guest:Right.

00:24:22Guest:But Roger always wanted people who would end up having huge careers.

00:24:28Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:24:29Marc:Okay, so you took the gig?

00:24:31Yeah.

00:24:31Guest:I did.

00:24:32Guest:I took the gig as his assistant, thinking that that was going to be my job for life.

00:24:39Marc:Did you like it that much?

00:24:40Guest:Well, no.

00:24:41Guest:I mean, how many role models did we have as women back in the 70s as producers?

00:24:48Guest:And I was really lucky that early on, one of my mentors, in addition to Roger Corman and Barbara Boyle, who worked for him...

00:24:54Guest:Was Deborah Hill, the late Deborah Hill, who, you know, there's a new Halloween coming out.

00:24:59Guest:So I really it's so important to me to keep her name alive because she was such an inspiration to me.

00:25:07Guest:She co-wrote, produced Halloween and all of those great John Carpenter films.

00:25:13Marc:And was she with Corman as well?

00:25:15Guest:No, she wasn't.

00:25:16Guest:But she came and she was filming some of Escape from New York with Corman.

00:25:27Guest:Yes.

00:25:28Guest:And she hired Jim Cameron to work in the film and visual effects.

00:25:34Marc:And he was a corpsman at the time.

00:25:37Marc:And that was his specialty, right?

00:25:39Guest:He was art department and visual effects.

00:25:43Marc:When you got there.

00:25:44Guest:No.

00:25:46Guest:When I first met him, he was building spaceship props for Battle Beyond the Stars, which was Roger's homage to the Seven Samurai.

00:25:57Marc:Right.

00:25:58Marc:But he was at the Cameron operation when you got there.

00:26:01Marc:Right.

00:26:02Marc:And he was just like a model nerd.

00:26:06Guest:He was building spaceship props.

00:26:07Guest:And then Roger, we needed an art director.

00:26:11Guest:And since he had designed all of the spaceships and he could draw, I said, let's give him a shot.

00:26:19Guest:So we went from one of the model makers to art director overnight.

00:26:23Marc:When you were there.

00:26:24Marc:Yes.

00:26:25Guest:And I was the assistant production manager on Battle Beyond the Stars.

00:26:28Marc:Okay, so that was after you, how long after you became the assistant did that happen?

00:26:34Guest:Well, I then was head of marketing for New World Pictures.

00:26:41Marc:You just kind of moved around?

00:26:43Marc:Yes.

00:26:44Guest:Wherever there was a need, you went, regardless of how skilled you were in that position.

00:26:50Guest:And then I went from that to being a PA.

00:26:54Guest:So I went from head of a department to production assistant.

00:26:57Marc:So you started as assistant, then you're head of marketing.

00:26:59Marc:So what were you taking in at that time?

00:27:02Marc:that intellectually or for your own business model, when did his way of doing business start to impact the way you saw how to do what you do?

00:27:14Guest:Well, I think that if you look at what Roger was doing back then, in addition to the exploitation films that he was making, he was distributing Truffaut films and Kurosawa films and Ingmar Bergman films.

00:27:28Guest:So it was...

00:27:30Guest:Very much like if you want to look at my career, I make incredibly commercial things, and then I make documentaries.

00:27:35Guest:Yeah.

00:27:36Guest:So that was a great example for me.

00:27:38Guest:So as head of marketing, you marketed everything from rock and roll high school.

00:27:43Guest:Which was his.

00:27:45Guest:Right.

00:27:46Guest:To Francois Truffaut's The Green Room.

00:27:48Marc:Right, because he was like the first distributor, right, in America.

00:27:52Guest:Well, Janice Films, I think, predated him, but it was really Janice and New World at the time.

00:27:58Marc:So his whole, like, because I talked to him, like, it's interesting that he continued to make the type of movies that he makes, but he always had such amazing respect for these movies that were much loftier and much more artistically provocative.

00:28:17Marc:Do you think that he didn't see himself as being able to produce those kind of movies?

00:28:22Marc:Or, you know...

00:28:23Guest:I think the concern really was if you didn't get it 100% right, it was going to be a failure because that audience is much pickier.

00:28:33Guest:Right.

00:28:34Guest:And an exploitation audience will at least show up for the first weekend.

00:28:39Guest:And if you make the movie for little enough money... Right.

00:28:44Guest:And in addition to that, you know, he didn't give anyone final cut.

00:28:47Guest:Yeah.

00:28:47Guest:You're not going to say to an Ingmar Bergman or a Francois Truffaut, you know...

00:28:53Guest:Right.

00:28:54Guest:Roger never wanted to be Harvey Weinstein.

00:28:56Marc:Right.

00:28:57Marc:Well, that's good.

00:28:58Guest:Yeah.

00:28:59Guest:In every possible way.

00:29:01Marc:Right.

00:29:02Marc:But even though the directors that started with him went on to do incredible sort of auteur type of movies, when they were with him, they made Roger Corman movies.

00:29:12Guest:But Roger was very upfront about that.

00:29:15Guest:In fact, when Jim and I wanted to make The Terminator, he said, the budget's going to be too large.

00:29:20Guest:You've learned everything you can possibly learn from me.

00:29:22Guest:It's time for you guys to go out on your own.

00:29:25Guest:I mean, how many people...

00:29:27Guest:would say, well, most people would say, I'll executive produce.

00:29:33Guest:I really won't contribute anything, but I'll take my cut.

00:29:37Guest:Instead, he said, you've learned all that you can learn here.

00:29:40Guest:Go out and fly on your own wings.

00:29:42Marc:Yeah, and he did that a lot.

00:29:44Guest:With everybody.

00:29:45Marc:Yeah, he gave them the nuts and bolts education of production or directing or whatever the hell they needed to do, and he said, go.

00:29:53Marc:I'll get a new crew of people to make this stuff.

00:29:56Guest:exactly and he was okay with it and you know what we're still in touch and i see him and julie yeah once or twice a year and uh you know and and i think that i think he his name really should be a household name along with everyone else because i can't imagine the american film industry without the people whose careers he started no doubt i and i think he is a household name to to people who know film yes right yes and

00:30:20Marc:So when you go to be a PA, is that where you started to really understand the set and how that all worked?

00:30:26Marc:What was the process?

00:30:28Guest:Well, I had to do everything.

00:30:29Guest:Yeah.

00:30:30Guest:So I made coffee.

00:30:31Guest:Yeah.

00:30:34Guest:As I recall, the second AD was somewhat dyslexic, so I ended up doing the call sheets because you don't want a call sheet with pickup time at 6.30 in the morning and you don't want it to say 3.60.

00:30:47Guest:Yeah.

00:30:48Marc:Yeah.

00:30:48Marc:Whatever that means.

00:30:50Guest:Yeah.

00:30:51Marc:And you've never done any of this before.

00:30:53Guest:None of it.

00:30:54Marc:Yeah.

00:30:54Guest:None of it.

00:30:55Guest:And then I worked with Rob Bottin putting methylcellulose, ultra slime, on the humanoids and humanoids from the deep.

00:31:04Guest:And I worked with props department and I worked with the costumes department.

00:31:08Guest:Right.

00:31:09Guest:I drove motorhomes.

00:31:11Guest:I emptied the chemical toilets in motorhomes.

00:31:13Guest:Wow.

00:31:13Guest:I did the runs from Mendocino down to the Oakland airport to pick up the cast to bring them set.

00:31:21Guest:And I was working, I mean, I was essentially working, you know, 100 plus hours a week.

00:31:27Marc:But you were also essential to the whole operation.

00:31:30Marc:It would seem like when you're that person, it's all kind of moving through you.

00:31:33Guest:Well, I don't know that I was essential.

00:31:37Guest:But every Roger Corman film is essentially understaffed.

00:31:41Guest:So everyone is essential.

00:31:43Marc:Right.

00:31:44Marc:But by doing all that, you learned all of it.

00:31:47Guest:Yes.

00:31:48Guest:And then on other films, I worked as a grip and drove the grip truck.

00:31:54Guest:And I really don't have as much respect for producers who don't know how sets work.

00:32:01Marc:Yeah, are there a lot of them?

00:32:03Guest:I'd say most of them.

00:32:04Marc:Yeah, because they're just money people?

00:32:06Guest:Or they've done a lot of development notes and they come to set and think and just tell people, hurry up.

00:32:19Guest:How come we're not shooting fast?

00:32:20Guest:We're not understanding how difficult it is to do it the right way and to be safe and value everyone who's pitching in on a project.

00:32:35Guest:Right.

00:32:35Marc:And who was like at your time, when you were there at Corman's, who were the directors that were around?

00:32:41Marc:Who was working at the time?

00:32:43Guest:Oh, Alan Arkish did Rock and Roll High School.

00:32:45Marc:Right.

00:32:47Guest:And there was a woman who actually directed Humanoids from the Deep, Barbara Peters.

00:32:52Marc:Uh-huh.

00:32:52Guest:Was Dante there?

00:32:55Guest:Dante, I knew Joe from cutting trailers because as head of marketing, I needed trailers cut.

00:33:00Guest:He was the trailer guy, yeah.

00:33:03Guest:So I got to know the previous generation primarily through the marketing side.

00:33:11Guest:Peter Bogdanovich did St.

00:33:13Guest:Jack while I was there.

00:33:15Guest:And then Jim was directing Second Unit on a number of films.

00:33:21Marc:That's where he started directing, doing second unit stuff?

00:33:23Guest:Yes.

00:33:24Marc:So when did you guys start knowing you wanted to work together, you and Cameron?

00:33:30Guest:When I was the assistant production manager on Battle Beyond the Stars, and I helped him get promoted from model builder to art director.

00:33:40Marc:And is that where you guys started to be with each other?

00:33:43Guest:No.

00:33:44Guest:You just started working?

00:33:45Guest:No.

00:33:45Guest:We didn't start dating until post-production on Terminator.

00:33:48Marc:Oh, really?

00:33:49Marc:Yeah.

00:33:49Marc:So how did that relationship take?

00:33:51Marc:Did you guys just decide you wanted to write together, or how did it work?

00:33:54Yeah.

00:33:54Guest:Well, I was helping out because we were so far behind in our department.

00:34:00Guest:So I would help spray paint sets and a lot more than you would typically do if you were a union DGA UPM, but Roger wasn't.

00:34:12Guest:Right.

00:34:12Guest:So I literally did whatever needed to be done.

00:34:15Guest:Right.

00:34:15Guest:So, you know, spray painting a set, you know, painting a set takes a long time.

00:34:19Guest:So we'd be chatting about ideas.

00:34:22Guest:I mean, back then he already had the ideas for The Abyss.

00:34:26Guest:He already had ideas for, you know, films that are being made now that he's producing.

00:34:32Guest:He'd had them since, you know, he'd been developing ideas since he was 13 or 14.

00:34:41Marc:And he's still executing them now.

00:34:44Guest:Yes.

00:34:45Marc:That's a lot of ideas.

00:34:46Guest:Well, indeed.

00:34:47Marc:And you guys are still friends?

00:34:48Guest:Yeah.

00:34:49Marc:Do you work together still?

00:34:50Guest:No, we haven't worked together.

00:34:52Marc:No?

00:34:52Guest:I mean, he's got, you know, he's making avatars two through four or five.

00:34:59Guest:Yeah.

00:34:59Marc:Is it going to be as big a production?

00:35:02Guest:I think if not bigger.

00:35:04Marc:Oh, my God.

00:35:04Marc:That was such a like the just the promotion for that alone was insane.

00:35:12Guest:Well, you know what?

00:35:13Guest:And we did enter the world of Pandora and he brought it alive.

00:35:17Marc:Yeah.

00:35:18Marc:Did you love it?

00:35:19Guest:I did.

00:35:20Guest:Although I have to say 3D, watching 3D makes me nauseous.

00:35:24Guest:It's a little much, huh?

00:35:26Guest:So I'm one of those people that I tend to prefer 2D.

00:35:31Marc:Yeah.

00:35:32Marc:Do you think 3D is ever going to take over or anything?

00:35:37Guest:You know what?

00:35:38Guest:I am, as we established, not the greatest tech and science person.

00:35:43Guest:So I'm not going to predict.

00:35:45Marc:So when you guys, so ultimately, initially, Terminator was going to be done at...

00:35:51Marc:New World.

00:35:52Guest:No, never.

00:35:54Marc:But you told Corman about it.

00:35:56Guest:Yes.

00:35:56Guest:And he said, that's too big for me.

00:35:58Guest:So we took it to Barbara Boyle, who had been the chief operating officer at New World, who is now working at Orion Pictures for Mike Medavoy.

00:36:09Marc:And you had the script.

00:36:10Guest:Yes.

00:36:11Marc:And that's what sold it to them.

00:36:13Marc:Yes.

00:36:14Marc:And then you guys were like, we're going to produce it.

00:36:17Guest:Well, they said that they would put some money in for the foreign and that we needed to come up with the rest of the money.

00:36:25Marc:How'd you do that?

00:36:26Guest:I bought a desk.

00:36:30Guest:Yes.

00:36:32Guest:Yes.

00:36:32Guest:So when you're a producer and you're trying to get your first project going, you do whatever it takes.

00:36:38Guest:Right.

00:36:38Guest:There was someone I knew had a multiple picture deal with Orion.

00:36:42Guest:Yeah.

00:36:43Guest:And they didn't have their next two projects.

00:36:45Guest:Yeah.

00:36:46Guest:A company by the name of Hemdale.

00:36:48Guest:Uh-huh.

00:36:48Guest:The head of it, John Daly, wouldn't take my phone call.

00:36:50Guest:So I found out that the head of development was a guy named Barry Plumlee, and he wouldn't take my phone calls.

00:36:55Guest:But then I found out through the grapevine that he was selling a desk.

00:37:00Guest:So I got him to return my phone call by saying that I was interested in buying his desk.

00:37:05Guest:And I'm also one of those people who, even though I didn't need a desk, I felt so guilty that I had sort of faked my way in that I bought the desk.

00:37:18Guest:Yeah.

00:37:19Guest:But Barry read what was, at the time, a treatment, a 40-some-odd page treatment.

00:37:25Marc:You dropped it off the day you picked up the desk?

00:37:27Guest:Yes.

00:37:28Guest:And surprisingly, as I said, he read it, and he called the next day saying he wanted to have a meeting.

00:37:35Guest:And that is literally how Terminator works.

00:37:40Guest:Got off the launching pad.

00:37:42Marc:So when you presented him with the treatment, did he realize, like, you don't want the desk, do you?

00:37:46Guest:No, he didn't, because I bought it.

00:37:49Guest:And at that point, he didn't care.

00:37:50Guest:And my check cleared.

00:37:54Marc:Well, there you go.

00:37:55Marc:So you were on a business level.

00:37:58Marc:It was a quid pro quo.

00:37:59Marc:Yeah, good.

00:38:00Marc:Because I don't completely understand production.

00:38:03Marc:So when you do something like Terminator, as you do everything you work on, what are the initial concerns?

00:38:08Marc:What do you have to make happen?

00:38:10Guest:Well, when you're making a film with not enough money and not enough time, and it's an independent film, the first thing you have to do is convince the completion bond company, which at the time was film finances, that you can actually do what you say because they're betting on you.

00:38:26Guest:It's like a construction bond, so think of it that way.

00:38:29Guest:That the building is going to be finished on time and it's not going to fall down.

00:38:32Guest:Yeah.

00:38:33Guest:So there was a fantastic gentleman who passed away years ago, Linsley Parsons Jr.

00:38:40Guest:And he's another reason that I have a career.

00:38:43Guest:Because Jim and I went in and met with him, and he was incredibly savvy.

00:38:48Guest:And he asked us all of the difficult questions.

00:38:50Guest:Like, how are you going to create the Terminator?

00:38:54Guest:How are you going to have the final chase in the factory where there's only a portion of the Terminator?

00:39:01Yeah.

00:39:01Guest:How are you going to do all of that?

00:39:04Guest:And we had the answers.

00:39:05Guest:And we even had the locations that we had identified.

00:39:07Marc:You worked out all the effects.

00:39:10Guest:We had.

00:39:10Guest:And obviously, Jim, with his expertise in visual effects, and we had the stop motion armature figured out.

00:39:20Guest:At the time, we were turned on to the late Stan Winston.

00:39:29Guest:Yeah.

00:39:30Guest:Through Dick Smith, the Academy Award winning makeup artist.

00:39:34Guest:Yeah.

00:39:35Guest:Because we were told that that Orion didn't want the film unless Dick Smith did the effects.

00:39:40Guest:And he said, I'm the wrong person.

00:39:42Guest:I do character.

00:39:44Guest:Yeah.

00:39:44Guest:Effects makeup.

00:39:45Guest:And you need someone who can do armatures and animatronics as well.

00:39:49Guest:And he's the one who's turned us on to Stan and said that he would back Stan.

00:39:54Guest:And and I think even give his name as someone if that if Stan didn't deliver, he would step in, even though he said Stan will deliver.

00:40:01Marc:Right.

00:40:02Marc:But he vouched for him.

00:40:03Marc:Yes.

00:40:04Marc:And then and that's and those are the first concerns.

00:40:06Guest:Yes.

00:40:07Guest:And so Lindsley completely backed us.

00:40:10Guest:And in fact, to the point that when we first screened the film and everyone said, oh, my God, this is a disaster and it's an embarrassment.

00:40:18Guest:Lindsley looked at it and said, this is going to be a classic.

00:40:21Guest:And I believe in you and Jim 100 percent.

00:40:24Guest:So when John Daly tried to take over the film from us.

00:40:28Marc:At Orion or where?

00:40:29Guest:He was at Hemdale.

00:40:30Marc:Yeah, OK.

00:40:31Yeah.

00:40:31Guest:He tried to take the film away from Jim and me.

00:40:35Marc:And recut it and do whatever.

00:40:37Guest:And that Lindsley said, because we were projecting to go into the contingency, so there's a 10% contingency, that he would take the film away from Hemdale and back Jim and me.

00:40:51Guest:Wow.

00:40:52Guest:So, I mean, these are the kinds of alliances.

00:40:55Guest:That's the kind of support that people who don't know a lot about the film industry.

00:41:01Guest:These are such important people.

00:41:04Guest:Without Lindsley Parson Jr.

00:41:07Guest:'s support, The Terminator might not have turned out the way that it did.

00:41:11Marc:And you think these people exist today as well?

00:41:14Guest:Oh, there's no question that they do, and they're really unsung heroes.

00:41:17Marc:That champion movie's on that level.

00:41:19Marc:Yes, yes.

00:41:21Marc:And why did screening go badly?

00:41:25Guest:Well, because the animatronics weren't done.

00:41:28Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:41:29Guest:We still had stop motion animation that also was done by a guy named Peter Kleinau.

00:41:40Guest:He was the stop motion animator who played slide guitar for the Flying Burrito Brothers in a previous incarnation.

00:41:49Marc:Great band.

00:41:50Guest:Yeah.

00:41:50Guest:And every now and again, we'd go watch and play at the Palomino or something.

00:41:54Guest:Really?

00:41:54Guest:Anyway, these were great days.

00:41:56Guest:But anyway, they weren't done.

00:41:58Guest:So we had lots of slugs in there.

00:42:00Guest:Right.

00:42:01Guest:And so the first screening was really a disaster.

00:42:04Marc:But you plowed through and you made a mega hit.

00:42:08Guest:And because of Lindsley Parsons supporting us and Mike Medivoy and Barbara Boyle, we ended up becoming the number one film of the fall of 1984 and made Time Magazine's 10 best list.

00:42:25Marc:Well, it's a great movie.

00:42:27Guest:Yeah, but we were told before we started, after that first screening by the head of marketing for Orion, that it was a total embarrassment, a down and dirty exploitation film that would be out of theaters after the first weekend because of the poor word of mouth.

00:42:44Marc:What did they know?

00:42:47Guest:Well, I'm just glad they were wrong.

00:42:50Guest:Yeah.

00:42:50Guest:None of us know anything, as William Goldman says.

00:42:54Marc:Yeah, that's true.

00:42:55Marc:Well, what was going on in films at that time?

00:42:58Marc:I mean, was it a unique film for that landscape?

00:43:02Guest:Well, I mean, at the time, Orion was making Amadeus, which went on to win the Academy Awards, and they were clearly doing something right.

00:43:10Guest:But, you know, Jim and I called the nightclub in which the Terminator and Sarah Connor first meet, and he targets her with the red laser gun.

00:43:22Guest:right dot yeah and kyle reese saves her um we call we call the nightclub tech noir because to us there was a sub genre that was developing um of um films about the possible dark side of technology that we need to be thinking about what are the ethics involved in a lot of the things that we're

00:43:44Guest:Dealing with today with the rise of AI and the rise of robots.

00:43:48Guest:But that's something we were thinking about back in the 80s.

00:43:51Guest:And we saw films like, you know, 2001 was an inspiration and Blue Thunder.

00:43:57Guest:Right.

00:43:57Guest:And RoboCop.

00:43:59Guest:I think I can't remember if it was before or after.

00:44:01Guest:And that one even Blade Runner.

00:44:04Marc:Blade Runner, yeah.

00:44:05Marc:And Robocop almost is a satire, almost.

00:44:08Marc:It has a satirical element to it.

00:44:09Guest:But it makes you really think about these things.

00:44:12Marc:It's getting away from us.

00:44:13Marc:Yeah.

00:44:14Marc:Yeah.

00:44:14Marc:So it was there.

00:44:16Marc:It was brewing, this genre.

00:44:17Guest:It was.

00:44:18Marc:Yeah.

00:44:19Guest:And that's why about a year and a half ago or two years ago when the late Stephen Hawking basically said, we need to be afraid.

00:44:26Marc:about robots and ai i'm thinking if you had just seen the terminator in 1984 you could have gotten out way ahead of this issue it is like i was just talking about it to to somebody uh recently how much we surrender to just on an informational basis i mean if they can really and i don't understand much but if they can really teach the mass of the machinery in place to think they've got us they've got everything on us

00:44:53Guest:Yes.

00:44:54Marc:You know, they can just erase our lives.

00:44:56Guest:So at first the issue becomes who are the gatekeepers and the next becomes when, you know, when there are sentient computers, if there aren't already now.

00:45:05Guest:Right.

00:45:06Guest:AI.

00:45:06Marc:Sure, algorithms that pick demographics, they are sentient.

00:45:11Guest:And as I recall, wasn't there something in social media?

00:45:13Guest:Social media where they created sort of an AI, an AI bot that within within hours became a, you know, started spouting racist rhetoric.

00:45:25Marc:Right.

00:45:26Marc:Oh, based on what they were taking from.

00:45:28Marc:Yes.

00:45:28Marc:Right.

00:45:29Marc:Of course.

00:45:30Marc:Right.

00:45:30Marc:That's the monster.

00:45:31Marc:So that's who's going to be in charge.

00:45:32Marc:The robot gatekeeper is going to be a horrible racist.

00:45:35Guest:Well, let's hope not.

00:45:36Marc:Yeah.

00:45:37Marc:We've already got a president that's won.

00:45:38Guest:I think just like doctors take the Hippocratic Oath, first do no harm, I think that everyone who's a developer of software, a developer of biotech, needs to first and foremost think, first do no harm, and what are the unintended consequences of their creation?

00:46:01Right.

00:46:01Marc:Right.

00:46:01Marc:Well, you know, it seems to me that a lot of scientists are sort of like, well, that's not, you know, we're just here doing the research, you know, and wherever it goes after that's not necessarily our responsibility.

00:46:10Guest:Well, look at what, you know, the nuclear bomb.

00:46:13Guest:Look at the scientists then who regret.

00:46:16Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:46:17Marc:Who regretted what they created.

00:46:18Marc:And they knew exactly what they were doing and why they were doing it.

00:46:20Guest:Yes.

00:46:21Marc:Yeah.

00:46:22Marc:But so this area of movie making, because when I talked to you about it, it seems like Corman did not, though he made movies that dealt with stuff like this, science fiction movies and certainly movies that were, I think, creatively ahead of their time, he didn't have a unified vision, right?

00:46:41Marc:He would make almost any type of movie.

00:46:42Guest:Well, no, I mean, he did actually have a vision.

00:46:45Guest:And the interesting thing, if you go back and look at one of his films, which he directed, starring William Shatner, it was called The Intruder.

00:46:53Guest:And it was about racism in the South.

00:46:58Guest:And it was actually a message movie.

00:47:00Guest:Right.

00:47:01Guest:So I think that Roger always thought about things like that.

00:47:05Guest:And I think that there is subtext, if you look for it, in a lot of his films.

00:47:10Guest:Right.

00:47:10Marc:I guess I was thinking genre.

00:47:12Marc:But no, he always had a good heart and a progressive heart about the message.

00:47:16Guest:And the fact that he hired women and that women directed in the in the 70s for him and were editors.

00:47:23Guest:And, you know, he.

00:47:25Guest:He really did not look at women as, well, they should be stuck as secretaries for the rest of their lives.

00:47:32Guest:I mean, that's what I was expecting.

00:47:33Guest:I was expecting to go into a culture in which, you know, I would go from secretary and one day I would be an executive assistant.

00:47:42Guest:That was the level of my ambition at the time.

00:47:45Guest:And it was because I went to work for Roger Corman and Barbara Boyle and the other people who were running the company that I became a lot more enlightened than I was at the time.

00:47:55Marc:Well, that's what's what's supposed to happen when you're allowed to.

00:47:58Guest:I know, but we haven't really even gotten to that level now in the industry.

00:48:04Marc:Yeah.

00:48:05Guest:And that was the 70s.

00:48:06Marc:It's crazy.

00:48:08Marc:And I mean, a lot of that's coming to head now.

00:48:10Guest:It is.

00:48:11Guest:But I think there's a lot of fear out there because it has been an industry in which the people who've held on to power for so long obviously don't want to give it up easily.

00:48:26Marc:That's for sure.

00:48:27Marc:And I guess that's the advantage of having somebody who is intelligent and progressive minded and not an asshole like Roger who really ran a sort of like he ran his own show business.

00:48:40Guest:He did.

00:48:40Guest:I mean, at the time, I remember that the letterhead said, America's largest independent production and distribution company.

00:48:49Guest:And that's what he had.

00:48:50Guest:All of us who worked there, even though we were exploited, I mean, the most I ever made working for him up until I produced a film for him was $180 a week, even when I was running marketing.

00:48:59Guest:Right.

00:49:01Guest:You weren't going to get rich there.

00:49:02Guest:Right.

00:49:03Guest:But if you had the talent, your career was going to get launched.

00:49:07Marc:Right.

00:49:07Marc:You were supported there.

00:49:09Guest:Yes.

00:49:10Marc:Right.

00:49:11Marc:And it seems like, you know, when I look at some of the movies that you were doing early on, I mean, they all have, not unlike Rogers, really, that their heart's in the right place.

00:49:21Marc:Even Alien Nation's really about racism, isn't it?

00:49:24Guest:Yes.

00:49:24Marc:Yeah.

00:49:25Marc:And Aliens is about the sort of, that's about the cancerous capitalism to a degree.

00:49:32Guest:Yes.

00:49:32Guest:Yeah.

00:49:33Marc:Right?

00:49:33Marc:And The Abyss is about, you shouldn't go that deep.

00:49:37Yeah.

00:49:38Guest:And I think it's about, you know, we've got to think about this arms race that we're in and what are the possible consequences.

00:49:48Guest:And let's not always be fearful of the other.

00:49:51Guest:Let's not be fearful of, we call them NTIs, you know, non-terrestrial intelligence.

00:49:57Guest:Let's not just assume that they're out to get us.

00:49:59Marc:Right.

00:50:00Marc:Yeah, that's always the thing.

00:50:01Marc:They're going to be bad.

00:50:02Marc:I mean, I think what's sadder now is that they may just be like, well, let's not even bother with them.

00:50:09Marc:Yeah.

00:50:10Marc:You know what I mean?

00:50:12Guest:We're on the road to destruction.

00:50:13Marc:Right.

00:50:14Marc:Yes.

00:50:15Marc:And I don't know if we're turning back, if that's turning back.

00:50:19Marc:But you also deal with that in your movies.

00:50:21Marc:Now, when you think about when something's presented to you, I mean, a few of these, Aliens was already the first Aliens.

00:50:29Marc:How did you come to get the second one?

00:50:31Guest:So what happened was Jim and I were supposed to make Terminator 1983.

00:50:38Guest:Yeah.

00:50:39Guest:Yeah.

00:50:40Guest:But Dino De Laurentiis preempted Arnold to do Conan the Destroyer, which was the sequel to Conan the Barbarian.

00:50:48Guest:Yeah.

00:50:49Guest:So we had to wait a year.

00:50:50Guest:Right.

00:50:51Guest:So, you know, Jim needed to put food on the table.

00:50:54Guest:Yeah.

00:50:55Guest:And so he was doing ad campaigns, you know, for low budget films.

00:51:00Guest:But he was a writer, so he had a sample with The Terminator.

00:51:05Guest:Yeah.

00:51:05Guest:And he went in to meet with Walter and the team, and they pitched him a Spartacus in space idea.

00:51:15Guest:And he said, well, is there anything else?

00:51:18Guest:And they said, well, we're thinking of doing a sequel to Alien, which sounds very common now, but it was very unusual then to do sequels.

00:51:27Guest:And so Jim came back with a pitch.

00:51:29Guest:They liked that pitch, and he also was hired for another sequel, which was Rambo First Blood Part II.

00:51:40Guest:So he wrote both scripts in this hiatus between the time that we had the financing for The Terminator and the time we started shooting.

00:51:49Marc:Wow.

00:51:50Marc:And at that point, you had established your production company?

00:51:53Guest:Yes.

00:51:54Marc:And were you also taking on other projects other than your own?

00:51:59Guest:No.

00:51:59Marc:No.

00:52:00Guest:No.

00:52:00Marc:Just you guys.

00:52:01Guest:I mean, it was, I had my own company.

00:52:05Guest:Jim wasn't a part of that.

00:52:06Guest:Yeah.

00:52:07Guest:And I had an assistant.

00:52:08Guest:That was my production company.

00:52:10Marc:That was the whole thing?

00:52:11Guest:Yes.

00:52:11Marc:Yeah.

00:52:12Marc:And when does that change?

00:52:13Marc:When does it become a larger operation?

00:52:15Marc:Which movie does it?

00:52:16Marc:um after aliens yeah um 20th century fox offered me an overall production deal and that's when because you're making money i was making money yes a lot of money yeah and that's when everything changed yeah so when when when a deal happens as a production entity what what does that mean what's what's that contract like what does it mean that they do what does 20th do they're going to release whatever you make no

00:52:41Guest:No.

00:52:42Guest:It means that you're obligated to, it depends whether it's first look.

00:52:46Guest:I had a first look deal.

00:52:47Guest:Yeah.

00:52:47Guest:So I was obligated to show them everything I was interested in developing.

00:52:50Guest:They had the first crack at it.

00:52:52Guest:Yeah.

00:52:52Guest:It didn't guarantee that it got made.

00:52:54Guest:Right.

00:52:54Guest:I mean, that's a different, that's a put picture deal and I didn't, I never had that.

00:52:58Guest:But it also sets forth what your compensation is going to be and it gives you an overhead and the overhead will cover staffing.

00:53:07Guest:Right.

00:53:07Guest:so that I could hire a couple more people, and I could develop more than just one project at a time.

00:53:13Marc:Right, so which movies did you make at 20th?

00:53:17Guest:Made Aliens, Alien Nation, and The Abyss.

00:53:22Marc:And then what happens?

00:53:23Marc:Where do you go?

00:53:24Guest:And then after that, the late Don Steele reached out to me and I had a deal at Columbia.

00:53:32Guest:And then after that, Sherry Lansing.

00:53:36Guest:My next deal was at Paramount.

00:53:38Marc:Yeah, when she was head of Paramount.

00:53:41Guest:Right.

00:53:41Guest:And then I had a deal at Universal also.

00:53:44Marc:So you've always had a lot of deals, you know, moving around a bit.

00:53:47Guest:Yes.

00:53:47Marc:Yeah.

00:53:48Marc:And you and Jim marry and divorce in this time?

00:53:50Guest:And continue to work together.

00:53:52Marc:Was that ever awful?

00:53:54Guest:Well, you know, I mean, the thing is that we we worked together before we started dating.

00:54:00Guest:So we'd already established what that relationship was.

00:54:02Guest:I think if it had been different.

00:54:04Guest:Yeah, it wouldn't have worked as well.

00:54:06Marc:Right.

00:54:07Marc:Do you have kids?

00:54:09Guest:I not with him.

00:54:10Marc:Oh, OK.

00:54:12Marc:So after like that relationship starts and stops and then you do.

00:54:17Marc:How many how many terminators did you do?

00:54:19Guest:Five?

00:54:21Guest:Three.

00:54:21Marc:Three?

00:54:23Guest:Yeah.

00:54:23Marc:Three Terminators?

00:54:24Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:54:24Marc:Did you write on all of them?

00:54:26Marc:You didn't?

00:54:26Guest:No.

00:54:27Marc:What is your creative input as a producer after a certain point?

00:54:31Marc:You don't get to say, well, can we do this another way?

00:54:36Guest:Oh, of course.

00:54:37Guest:I mean, I think that's the value of a producer is always trying to be able to see the forest, not just the trees.

00:54:46Guest:And so I've always been very involved, especially in post-production.

00:54:52Guest:Yeah.

00:54:54Guest:So development notes, helping to solve problems on set.

00:54:58Guest:Yeah, because you know what's up.

00:55:00Guest:But at that point, I had multiple projects going on.

00:55:02Guest:Right.

00:55:03Guest:So I was going from one set to another.

00:55:07Guest:And once films stopped shooting in Los Angeles, it made it much harder because you can't be in.

00:55:13Guest:You can go to two sets if they're shooting in the same city on the same day.

00:55:17Guest:You can't be flying around.

00:55:18Guest:But yeah, you can't do that.

00:55:19Marc:And that started happening more, right?

00:55:21Marc:A lot of movies were shooting away from town.

00:55:23Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:55:24Marc:Now, I know that you had a relationship with De Palma as well.

00:55:29Marc:Was there a shift in your mind from doing the type of movies that you and Cameron did to his more horror, psychological thrillers?

00:55:40Marc:What attracted you to him?

00:55:42Guest:Brian's one of the smartest, funniest, most engaging people I've ever met.

00:55:50Marc:Wild filmmaker, too.

00:55:52Guest:He is.

00:55:52Guest:And he's incredibly smart.

00:55:55Guest:Yeah.

00:55:57Guest:And he really should teach film.

00:56:00Guest:Yeah.

00:56:01Guest:If you saw the documentary about him, you'll understand.

00:56:03Guest:I've got to watch that.

00:56:04Guest:It's a great documentary.

00:56:06Guest:You'll understand just...

00:56:09Guest:How much of an expert, not just on Hitchcock.

00:56:12Guest:Right.

00:56:12Guest:But, you know, I mean, being with him was like it was like a graduate course in film.

00:56:18Marc:Yeah.

00:56:19Marc:There's a couple of guys like that.

00:56:20Marc:Scorsese's like that, too.

00:56:22Guest:Oh, absolutely.

00:56:22Marc:And Bogdanovich a bit.

00:56:24Guest:Quentin Tarantino.

00:56:26Marc:Yeah, just those film heads.

00:56:27Guest:Yeah.

00:56:28Marc:Yeah.

00:56:29Marc:So you learned a lot about movies.

00:56:31Guest:You know, I did.

00:56:32Guest:And we worked together.

00:56:33Guest:We made a film called Raising Cain together.

00:56:35Marc:With John Lithgow, right?

00:56:36Guest:With John Lithgow.

00:56:37Marc:That was a trippy move.

00:56:38Marc:Like he was, what was he, a split personality?

00:56:40Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:56:41Marc:How'd that do?

00:56:42Guest:It did well.

00:56:43Marc:Yeah.

00:56:44Guest:I mean, we made it, we made it, it came in a million dollars under budget.

00:56:48Guest:It only cost, I think the budget was 12, we made it for 10 something.

00:56:52Guest:Yeah.

00:56:53Guest:You know, and so everyone was surprised it came out, did well.

00:56:56Guest:Brian's very much a New York person.

00:56:58Guest:Right.

00:56:59Guest:And he moved out here, never really loved it out here.

00:57:02Marc:Right.

00:57:03Guest:Moved back to New York and we split up.

00:57:06Marc:Oh, so it was a long distance thing.

00:57:08Marc:Yeah.

00:57:09Marc:He didn't live out here early on, too, or no?

00:57:11Marc:He was always New York?

00:57:12Guest:No, always.

00:57:13Marc:Wow.

00:57:14Marc:Yeah, I miss his movies.

00:57:16Marc:I don't know.

00:57:17Marc:I can't remember the last movie he made, really.

00:57:19Guest:Well, he's still making them.

00:57:20Marc:Yeah.

00:57:21Marc:He still loves thrillers.

00:57:24Marc:Yeah.

00:57:25Marc:Do you like them?

00:57:26Guest:I do.

00:57:26Guest:I do love thrillers.

00:57:27Marc:Did you make a shift from sci-fi dystopian movies to thrillers at some point and then horror?

00:57:34Guest:The truth is that everyone likes to think that producers are really in charge of their own existence.

00:57:41Guest:We're not.

00:57:42Marc:But you're sought out by a certain type of filmmaker, I would imagine.

00:57:46Guest:Well, I tend to be the one...

00:57:48Guest:Seeking things out.

00:57:49Guest:And it also depends on the access that agents or managers will give you to their talent.

00:57:55Guest:So they tend to pigeonhole you.

00:58:01Guest:So they'll send you the scripts or the creators or the directors who make thrillers.

00:58:09Guest:But I also made a movie called The Water Dance.

00:58:12Guest:Yeah.

00:58:13Guest:And that won Best First, which is really kind of embarrassing, Best First Feature at the Spirit Awards, beating out Reservoir Dogs, Quentin Tarantino.

00:58:25Guest:Yeah.

00:58:26Guest:It won the Audience Award at Sundance.

00:58:28Guest:Yeah.

00:58:28Guest:How'd you get that movie?

00:58:30Guest:Because I knew the writer-director, Neil Jimenez.

00:58:34Guest:Yeah.

00:58:36Guest:And once again, it's having people who are passionate about a project.

00:58:41Marc:And that was like a real kind of indie thing.

00:58:43Marc:Total indie.

00:58:45Marc:Yeah.

00:58:45Marc:But you don't do a lot of those, do you?

00:58:47Guest:I did a movie called Safe Passage with Susan Sarandon and Sam Shepard.

00:58:51Guest:Right.

00:58:53Guest:So, you know, I've done a few.

00:58:55Guest:I've done a couple of comedies.

00:58:57Guest:I did a movie called Dick.

00:58:59Marc:Oh yeah, with Michelle Williams and Kirsten Dunst.

00:59:02Guest:Michelle Williams and Kirsten Dunst and Dan Hedaya.

00:59:04Guest:It was about two dog walkers to the president who turned out to be teenage Deep Throat before we knew that Mark Felt was Deep Throat.

00:59:15Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:59:16Marc:How did those movies do for you?

00:59:18Guest:You know, I love doing things like that film I got because it was it was a parody.

00:59:23Guest:Andy Fleming, the co-writer and director, someone whose career started off with a film called Bad Dreams.

00:59:30Guest:Yeah.

00:59:31Guest:And, you know, he had done he'd done the craft.

00:59:34Guest:He'd done a number of other films.

00:59:36Guest:And, you know, it was for Mike Medavoy.

00:59:40Guest:It was perfect.

00:59:41Marc:So you knew him from back in the day.

00:59:43Guest:Uh huh.

00:59:43Marc:And I guess you build these relationships over time in this town, for sure.

00:59:47Guest:Yeah, and if you're trustworthy and you have someone's back and you're not a psychopath, people will actually work with you more than once.

00:59:57Marc:And they know you can deliver the goods.

01:00:00Guest:Yeah, and then I'll actually be on set and I'll actually do something other than, you know.

01:00:04Marc:Right, just everything okay?

01:00:06Guest:Yeah, exactly.

01:00:07Marc:Fire that guy.

01:00:08Marc:I'll be in my office.

01:00:09Guest:Right.

01:00:09Marc:Yeah.

01:00:11Marc:And Armageddon was a huge hit for you, right?

01:00:13Guest:Yes.

01:00:13Marc:That was a big movie.

01:00:14Guest:That was the number one.

01:00:15Guest:I've had two number one films in the world.

01:00:19Guest:The first was, well, it was Terminator 2.

01:00:21Marc:Yeah.

01:00:22Guest:And then Armageddon.

01:00:24Marc:Yeah.

01:00:25Marc:And everybody remembers those movies.

01:00:27Marc:It's crazy.

01:00:28Marc:And then later, like in the 2000s, you got into the comic book business a bit.

01:00:34Guest:Mm hmm.

01:00:35Guest:Yeah.

01:00:35Guest:I mean, early on.

01:00:36Guest:Early on.

01:00:36Guest:I know.

01:00:37Guest:I know.

01:00:37Guest:And oftentimes I'm too early.

01:00:39Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:00:41Guest:So, you know, I recognize that Marvel was going to be a huge franchise.

01:00:47Guest:There was no way it couldn't.

01:00:48Guest:There was no way it couldn't be.

01:00:50Guest:Because I read comic books from the time that I was a kid.

01:00:54Guest:Yeah.

01:00:54Guest:I love science fiction, fantasy, horror, and comic books.

01:00:58Guest:And the truth was that Roger Corman knew that too.

01:01:04Guest:Yeah.

01:01:05Guest:And he was also ahead of his time and plus didn't have the budgets to make the kinds of films that are sustaining.

01:01:12Guest:Well, he actually...

01:01:13Guest:had the rights to i think fantastic four and made a fantastic four and i think marvel bought back the rights and it was never released no kidding but you did like it was starting to happen i mean did the punisher or the your hulk was you did i did both hulks yeah the eric banna right the angley hulk as well as the louis leterrier edward norton hulk and the punisher yes and i did two punishers

01:01:39Marc:Is he sort of a secondary character?

01:01:41Marc:I'm not a huge comic book guy and I've been condescending about the genre.

01:01:45Guest:Shame on you.

01:01:47Marc:I know.

01:01:48Marc:I've made an argument on my podcast before about how culturally we've become infantilized and it's sort of pushed out more of the type of movies that would be engaging for adults.

01:02:00Guest:Well, you know what?

01:02:01Guest:That's a point.

01:02:02Guest:But the good news is that those films are coming back.

01:02:07Guest:I mean, I go to the arthouse cinemas all the time.

01:02:09Guest:And that's a great thing about living in Pasadena.

01:02:11Guest:There are a lot of them.

01:02:12Marc:The Lemley is great.

01:02:13Guest:The Lemley and the Arclight shows a lot, too.

01:02:18Guest:And the truth is, every time I go to the theater, it's full.

01:02:23Marc:Right.

01:02:24Marc:Oh, when you see the smaller movies.

01:02:25Guest:When I see the smaller movies.

01:02:26Marc:That's because there's so many grownups craving them that even without big publicity budgets, they're like, we've got to go.

01:02:32Guest:There's nothing wrong with that.

01:02:33Guest:And I also love the fact that we've got a thriving bookstore next to the Lemleys.

01:02:37Guest:We've got Romans.

01:02:39Guest:Yeah.

01:02:39Guest:And so they're, you know, and parents are teaching their kids to appreciate not only great literature.

01:02:48Guest:You think?

01:02:48Guest:But great film.

01:02:49Guest:Yeah?

01:02:50Guest:I do.

01:02:50Guest:Okay.

01:02:50Guest:Everywhere?

01:02:51Guest:Everywhere.

01:02:51Guest:I don't know that it's everywhere because that's why to me it's important to go to film festivals everywhere.

01:02:57Guest:I'm going to the Heartland Film Festival in Indianapolis with Mankiller.

01:03:03Guest:I try to go either Valerie Redhorse or I go to as many film festivals as possible because there's so many places that don't have arthouse cinemas and the only opportunity they have...

01:03:13Guest:To see these films, is it a film festival?

01:03:16Marc:Right.

01:03:17Marc:Well, that sort of speaks more to my point, is that when you have most of the distribution in the theaters around the country running the bigger Marvel movies or more commercial comedies that are usually awful, and there is no outlet, some of these people have to drive an hour if they want to see a small movie.

01:03:34Marc:Whereas I think they had a better distribution at another time, or maybe the movies were just different.

01:03:39Marc:I mean, there's always been blockbusters since the 80s.

01:03:42Guest:Well, I think the difference really is streaming.

01:03:44Guest:I mean, almost everyone says to me, is it worth going to see in the theater or should I stream it?

01:03:50Marc:And what do you say?

01:03:51Guest:I mean, if I like something, no, go see it in the theater.

01:03:55Marc:You still believe in the theater going experience?

01:03:57Guest:Yeah, it's great.

01:03:58Guest:I love it.

01:03:59Guest:I mean, to me, there is nothing better than being in a theater with people who are going on the same journey with you.

01:04:07Marc:Yeah.

01:04:08Marc:No, absolutely.

01:04:09Guest:And you don't need to know them.

01:04:10Guest:Right.

01:04:10Guest:But you have a connection with them.

01:04:12Guest:And you can't get that at home on your computer.

01:04:15Guest:Yeah.

01:04:15Marc:You can all walk out confused together if it's a difficult ending.

01:04:19Guest:And you go to the restroom afterward and everyone's talking about it.

01:04:22Marc:Yeah.

01:04:22Marc:No matter how big they make the screen for your house, even if it takes up a whole wall, you're still not at the movies.

01:04:27Marc:Right.

01:04:27Marc:Even if you make popcorn.

01:04:28Guest:Yes, exactly.

01:04:29Marc:It's a communal experience.

01:04:30Guest:So I still, you know, so I was just at TIFF.

01:04:32Guest:I was just at the Toronto Film Festival.

01:04:34Guest:That's a big one.

01:04:36Marc:With Man Killer?

01:04:37Guest:No, no, no, no.

01:04:38Guest:Actually, Man Killer screened at Imaginative, which is also in Toronto, run by TIFF, through TIFF, and it's the most important indigenous film festival.

01:04:50Guest:Oh, that's great.

01:04:51Guest:And so we've been invited to festivals all over.

01:04:53Guest:We won Best Documentary at the Maoriland Film Festival in New Zealand.

01:04:57Oh, that's great.

01:04:57Guest:And I'm going to Iceland with it in a couple of weeks.

01:05:01Marc:Oh, and I bet you're going to meet a lot of filmmakers.

01:05:04Guest:Yes.

01:05:04Guest:So that to me is what's so exciting.

01:05:07Marc:Oh, that must be incredibly exciting.

01:05:09Guest:When you get to be my age, to be re-enthused about the business, it's important to leave Los Angeles.

01:05:16Guest:It's important to get to know the people who are starting their careers now.

01:05:20Marc:Yeah.

01:05:21Guest:Especially in those communities.

01:05:23Marc:The Icelandic indigenous population, the creativity from that area, it's completely different.

01:05:31Guest:And that's why, to me, it's so important to support things like Vision Maker Media, which is part of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, and make sure that they continue to have a budget because we need those voices.

01:05:42Marc:For sure.

01:05:43Guest:Canada does a much better job.

01:05:45Marc:Sure.

01:05:45Marc:Canada is doing a much better job at everything right now.

01:05:49Guest:But because they actually finance, I mean, they finance Canadian filmmakers and not just commercial ones.

01:05:58Guest:They finance the, you know, the new voices and the independent voices.

01:06:03Guest:And they have a lot of indigenous film financing.

01:06:07Marc:That's great.

01:06:08Marc:Yeah, and it's part of the national fabric.

01:06:10Marc:I mean, there's something about even partial socialism that is sort of like encourages that kind of stuff.

01:06:19Guest:It's important, and we should put our money behind it.

01:06:22Marc:That's right.

01:06:24Marc:You know, that's one thing that seems to happen is that when things falter here, people with money and their heart in the right place do seem to step up a bit.

01:06:33Marc:But that shouldn't be the only thing that we rely on.

01:06:35Guest:Exactly.

01:06:36Marc:Yeah.

01:06:36Marc:I mean, the government should encourage and embrace this stuff.

01:06:42Guest:Yes.

01:06:43Marc:But I think we're a bit away from it right now.

01:06:46Guest:Indeed.

01:06:46Guest:But you know what?

01:06:47Guest:I like to think that that we'll be back on track.

01:06:52Guest:Yeah, no, you have to.

01:07:00Guest:We have to thank you.

01:07:13Guest:And I saw Green Book, the film that won the Audience Award.

01:07:19Guest:And that's another film that you have to go to the theater to see when it comes out.

01:07:24Guest:And it's coming out from Universal.

01:07:26Guest:So, you know, so this is a film that'll have.

01:07:28Guest:What's that one about?

01:07:31Guest:I had never heard of this, but in the 60s, you know.

01:07:36Guest:In the 70s, I remember doing road trips and you had the AAA guide to, you know, well, the Green Book was for African Americans.

01:07:43Marc:Viggo Mortensen's in it.

01:07:44Guest:Viggo Mortensen and Mahershala Ali.

01:07:46Marc:Yeah.

01:07:47Guest:And who starred in a movie that I did called The Wronged Man opposite Julia Armand.

01:07:54Guest:Yeah.

01:07:55Guest:And it's about this unlikely duo where Viggo plays an Italian bouncer.

01:08:02Guest:Yeah.

01:08:03Guest:Who's driving...

01:08:05Guest:Mahershala Ali, who plays, and this is based a true story, who is Don Shirley, who is the leader, the most important African-American pianist and leader of a trio, who'd played for Presidents and had a tour in the South.

01:08:23Marc:All right.

01:08:23Marc:And the Green Book is where they could stay safely.

01:08:27Guest:Yes.

01:08:28Marc:Wow.

01:08:29Marc:So it was a great movie.

01:08:31Guest:I loved it.

01:08:31Guest:I sat there in a huge theater.

01:08:35Guest:It was playing at the Elgin Theater in Toronto, which is generally where people go, you know, a thousand or so people go to see theater.

01:08:44Guest:Yep.

01:08:45Guest:And it was another one of those experiences.

01:08:49Guest:It was the premier, it was the world premier of the film, and we knew we'd seen something special.

01:08:54Marc:Everybody could feel it.

01:08:55Marc:Everybody could feel it.

01:08:56Marc:I'm getting choked up just hearing about it.

01:08:59Marc:Like that moment in movies where...

01:09:02Guest:Yeah, and it's a movie that will appeal to everyone.

01:09:05Guest:It's not a movie that looks down on its audience.

01:09:07Guest:It's not a nihilistic film.

01:09:11Guest:It's a film about we can all be better.

01:09:13Guest:Right.

01:09:14Guest:As long as we understand each other, as long as we can put our sort of bigoted ideas aside.

01:09:23Guest:Yeah.

01:09:23Yeah.

01:09:23Guest:We can find commonality, and it's a great buddy movie.

01:09:28Marc:Oh, it's great.

01:09:28Marc:I'm looking forward to seeing it.

01:09:30Marc:So the documentary that you did, and you have other stuff coming out.

01:09:34Marc:Now, I guess moving towards what you're doing now...

01:09:39Marc:It seems to me that you were able to do with your career in a very financially lucrative way sort of what Corman set out to do in a way.

01:09:49Marc:But you somehow figured out how to do it and make a lot of money.

01:09:56Guest:Well, Roger's made a lot more money than I have, but Roger was also risking his money.

01:10:01Marc:Right.

01:10:02Marc:But you need to popularize it, I guess, is what I'm thinking.

01:10:06Marc:And do you feel like you have a sort of a pulse on why these types of movies?

01:10:13Marc:I know you produced The Walking Dead.

01:10:15Marc:And did you have any idea going into that, say, that it was going to be the cultural phenomenon that it became?

01:10:22Guest:No, no.

01:10:23Guest:I mean, back when we were starting it, Frank Darabont and I and Robert Kirkman, who created the comic book, basically said, we want to do well enough that we'll get a second season.

01:10:33Marc:Right.

01:10:33Guest:I mean, that was our bar.

01:10:35Marc:Right.

01:10:35Marc:So you don't have any, you're not sort of prescient.

01:10:37Marc:Is that the word where you're like, this is, you know.

01:10:40Guest:And the other thing to remember is that it would not have been the success that it's become if it hadn't been for streaming.

01:10:47Guest:Right.

01:10:48Guest:If it hadn't been for an opportunity to tell serialized stories.

01:10:51Guest:Right.

01:10:51Guest:Where you had to have seen the episode, the previous episode, in order to understand what the characters are going through.

01:10:58Guest:Because people could catch up on streaming.

01:11:00Right.

01:11:00Marc:Right, so AMC has that, you can do that there.

01:11:03Guest:You can do that, plus it's on Netflix, so people can catch up.

01:11:08Marc:The first season, every season goes to Netflix after it runs on AMC or simultaneous.

01:11:12Marc:Yes, after.

01:11:14Guest:Yeah.

01:11:15Guest:So last season's available now on Netflix.

01:11:18Marc:I think I watched the first few, and then I had to...

01:11:20Guest:No problem.

01:11:22Marc:They're still out there?

01:11:23Guest:They are still out there.

01:11:27Marc:Good.

01:11:27Guest:The zombies are out there.

01:11:29Marc:It just seems like there's a whole, you know, several franchises now.

01:11:34Guest:Yes.

01:11:35Marc:Yeah.

01:11:38Marc:What do you think that says about, when you deal with horror specifically, that's horror straight up, right?

01:11:44Guest:Yeah.

01:11:44Yeah.

01:11:44Marc:What do you think that says about where we are culturally?

01:11:48Marc:Or in general, why is horror appealing?

01:11:51Guest:Well, I'm not a sociologist.

01:11:53Marc:But, you know, you make the movies.

01:11:55Guest:But I think that when people have the level of insecurity that we all have right now about the state of the world.

01:12:03Guest:Right.

01:12:03Guest:You know, economic collapse could be any moment.

01:12:09Guest:Natural disasters.

01:12:10Marc:Yeah.

01:12:11Guest:I mean, you name it.

01:12:12Guest:Right.

01:12:13Marc:Why not just take it over the top and have the dead live?

01:12:16Guest:Yes.

01:12:16Guest:And that way people can experience this, you know.

01:12:21Guest:Anxiety and fear.

01:12:22Guest:And then it's done and it's unlikely that the zombie apocalypse is going to happen.

01:12:26Guest:Yeah.

01:12:26Guest:But, you know, your favorite characters have survived to live another day.

01:12:30Guest:Hope.

01:12:31Guest:And there's hope.

01:12:33Guest:And the interesting thing about it is that the Centers for Disease Control came to us and said, listen, we can't get people who are facing an outbreak of SARS or, you know, a hurricane to come on our website and find out what they should do to prepare.

01:12:50Guest:And can we do a how to prepare for a zombie apocalypse?

01:12:59Guest:We said, sure.

01:13:00Guest:Yeah.

01:13:00Guest:And then they had such an enormous response that it crashed their website because people would go on to the CDC website in order to learn how to prepare for a zombie apocalypse.

01:13:12Marc:And then see the real stuff.

01:13:14Guest:And because the truth is preparing for a zombie apocalypse is very much like preparing for any kind of disaster that you might face.

01:13:20Marc:Right.

01:13:21Guest:Because people are contagious.

01:13:22Guest:Right.

01:13:22Guest:And, you know, you need to stock up on supplies and all of that.

01:13:25Marc:So they just route them in that direction.

01:13:27Marc:Oh, it's genius.

01:13:28Marc:And it worked out.

01:13:29Marc:It did.

01:13:30Marc:So a lot more people are prepared for the zombie apocalypse now.

01:13:33Guest:And they're prepared for any kind of disaster that might befall them.

01:13:36Marc:Really?

01:13:38Marc:Mm-hmm.

01:13:38Marc:That's amazing that they saw that window to promote.

01:13:45Marc:Does that make you feel good?

01:13:47Guest:Yeah, because the truth is that whatever it takes to make someone safer, to protect their families, and not be caught unaware.

01:14:01Guest:Yeah.

01:14:01Guest:It's good.

01:14:02Guest:You know, that's a that's a good thing.

01:14:04Guest:And that's something that wouldn't have happened without The Walking Dead becoming a huge pop culture hit.

01:14:09Marc:The other two things like in dealing with this new the new media landscape.

01:14:13Marc:So you like you become obviously very savvy at that.

01:14:17Marc:And it offers a lot more opportunity, I would imagine.

01:14:19Guest:Right.

01:14:19Guest:And I've got a show that's in its second season.

01:14:22Marc:Lore.

01:14:22Guest:Lore.

01:14:23Marc:Yeah.

01:14:23Guest:On Amazon.

01:14:24Marc:Started as a podcast.

01:14:25Guest:It did.

01:14:26Guest:That's encouraging.

01:14:26Guest:So there you go.

01:14:27Guest:Yes.

01:14:28Marc:Where's my show?

01:14:28Marc:I know.

01:14:29Marc:I had it already.

01:14:30Marc:It came in well.

01:14:31Guest:Well, now you've got a huge acting career.

01:14:33Marc:Yeah.

01:14:33Marc:It's going okay.

01:14:34Marc:I'm doing all right.

01:14:35Guest:Not bad.

01:14:35Marc:Thank you.

01:14:37Marc:So how did Lore happen?

01:14:39Guest:Well, actually, my company was approached by Propagate, which is Ben Silverman and Howard Owen's company.

01:14:48Guest:They said that they were optioning the rights to the podcast, which we had listened to.

01:14:54Marc:It's like a radio show, right?

01:14:57Guest:It is literally lore examines folklore and mythology and tells the true stories upon which those are based.

01:15:09Marc:Oh, wow.

01:15:12Yeah.

01:15:12Marc:You must have been like, of course.

01:15:13Guest:I love that.

01:15:14Guest:I mean, because what I do when I am not producing is I read nonfiction.

01:15:20Guest:Yeah.

01:15:20Guest:That is my favorite thing.

01:15:21Guest:Yeah, me too.

01:15:22Guest:I love historical nonfiction.

01:15:24Guest:I mean, I cannot get enough of it.

01:15:25Guest:Learn, yeah.

01:15:28Guest:So the fact that these were the true stories, and most of them I had never heard of.

01:15:32Guest:A few I had.

01:15:34Guest:Yeah.

01:15:34Guest:But to be able to explore those on, you know, on Amazon and, you know, and be able to do an anthology series is something I'd always wanted to do.

01:15:47Marc:And it's a perfect opportunity.

01:15:49Guest:Sure.

01:15:50Guest:So Aaron Manke, who created the podcast, has been very involved.

01:15:54Guest:And the first year, we worked with Glenn Morgan, who is on X-Files.

01:15:59Guest:Yep.

01:16:00Guest:And then this season, the showrunner's been Sean Crouch, who came from Exorcist.

01:16:06Marc:From the movie?

01:16:08Guest:No, Exorcist, there was a TV series.

01:16:09Guest:Okay, good.

01:16:11Guest:Yes.

01:16:11Guest:Very highly regarded critically.

01:16:13Yeah.

01:16:13Marc:So these guys, like X-Files and Exorcist, I imagine you hire those guys because they understand that tonal build of these types of stories.

01:16:22Guest:And they understand the audience.

01:16:25Guest:And they have respect, unlike some people.

01:16:28Guest:No, I do.

01:16:29Guest:I do have respect.

01:16:30Guest:Okay, for the genre.

01:16:31Guest:Yeah.

01:16:32Guest:And, you know, there are lessons in each one.

01:16:37Guest:And I love the fact that I'm discovering things that I didn't know.

01:16:41Marc:Also the movie.

01:16:42Guest:Hellfest, yeah.

01:16:42Marc:Hellfest.

01:16:43Marc:So this is like a Corman movie.

01:16:47Guest:It's like a Corman movie, but it's also inspired by the experience of turning The Walking Dead into a maze.

01:16:55Guest:The Walking Dead maze is at Universal Horror Nights.

01:17:00Guest:Right.

01:17:00Guest:There's also actually one at Thorpe Park in England.

01:17:03Guest:Yeah.

01:17:03Guest:So this is a worldwide phenomenon.

01:17:05Guest:It's not just something in the U.S.

01:17:07Marc:Right.

01:17:08Guest:And...

01:17:08Marc:Like universal theme parks.

01:17:09Marc:These are theme parks to show.

01:17:10Guest:Yeah, I mean, and obviously there's one at Magic Mountain.

01:17:15Guest:They got our maze this year.

01:17:18Guest:They've got a Hellfest maze.

01:17:20Guest:You know, there's Not Scary Farm.

01:17:22Marc:It hasn't even come out yet?

01:17:23Guest:No.

01:17:23Marc:And you've got a maze already?

01:17:25Marc:Yes, of course.

01:17:26Guest:And so the idea that one of these people in a mask at one of these scary theme parks could actually be out to get you was the perfect idea.

01:17:43Marc:How has that not been done?

01:17:44Guest:I know.

01:17:45Guest:Well.

01:17:45Marc:I don't think the theme parks existed before.

01:17:48Marc:Like you always had the guy in the mask, but he was just in the town.

01:17:50Guest:Yes.

01:17:51Marc:And now that these things exist, they're relatively new.

01:17:53Right.

01:17:53Guest:They are relatively new.

01:17:55Marc:Yeah.

01:17:55Marc:But I just thought it was interesting that that, you know, I don't I don't mean to lean on Corman, but this seems like a movie like it could have been a B movie at a different time.

01:18:05Guest:Absolutely.

01:18:06Guest:You know, I love B movies.

01:18:08Marc:Yeah, of course.

01:18:09Marc:Yeah, I mean, you know, they're raw, they're interesting, you know, there's room for weirdness.

01:18:14Marc:Yeah.

01:18:16Marc:Yeah.

01:18:17Guest:And the director, Greg Plotkin, was actually the editor of Get Out.

01:18:21Guest:That's a wild movie.

01:18:23Guest:Exactly.

01:18:24Guest:So he comes from, I mean, you know, he's got great elevated genre cred.

01:18:31Yeah.

01:18:31Marc:Yeah, horror, like, I'm not being condescending to horror fans or sci-fi heads.

01:18:37Marc:I just have, it was just a specific movie issue.

01:18:40Guest:I understand.

01:18:41Guest:I mean, but, you know, honestly, one of the most relevant films that if you go back and you look at today, which I'm sure other people have mentioned, is Night of the Living Dead.

01:18:51Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:18:51Marc:Well, I like that stuff.

01:18:52Guest:Great.

01:18:53Marc:Yeah.

01:18:54Marc:I got no problem with horror.

01:18:55Guest:Yeah.

01:18:56Guest:The problem is that everyone's jumped on the bandwagon.

01:19:00Marc:Yeah.

01:19:00Guest:And a lot of people who don't respect it don't like it.

01:19:03Guest:Yeah.

01:19:04Guest:Think there's an easy buck to be made.

01:19:06Guest:Right.

01:19:06Guest:And that doesn't mean that all of us who do care and love the genre will hit a home run every time.

01:19:14Marc:Right.

01:19:15Guest:But at least we respect it and we respect the fans.

01:19:17Guest:Right.

01:19:17Marc:Yeah, and I'm a Dawn of the Dead guy.

01:19:20Marc:I like that.

01:19:20Guest:Yes, absolutely.

01:19:21Marc:I actually like it more than Night of the Living Dead.

01:19:23Marc:The shopping mall sequence in Dawn of the Dead is one of the best things.

01:19:27Marc:And also the redneck sequence.

01:19:30Marc:I like elements of satire, and there is a lot of that in horror and in sci-fi.

01:19:37Marc:Just not so much, I think, in Marvel movies.

01:19:40Yeah.

01:19:40Guest:Well, you know, everything is to me is on a scale.

01:19:44Marc:Yeah, sure.

01:19:46Guest:And, you know, and I think that a couple of the Captain Americas had great commentary.

01:19:51Marc:I got to watch them.

01:19:52Marc:I got to watch them.

01:19:53Marc:I got called out today on an email saying, look, if you're going to do this, you better watch all the movies.

01:19:59Marc:And then I got cast in a small part in the new Joker.

01:20:02Marc:So I'm getting a lot of shit.

01:20:03Guest:Well, there you go.

01:20:04Guest:But you know what?

01:20:06Guest:You can turn it around.

01:20:07Marc:I'm going to have to.

01:20:08Guest:Yes.

01:20:09Marc:Yeah.

01:20:10Marc:I mean, but on another level, like why wouldn't I do a scene with Joaquin and Robert De Niro in any movie?

01:20:16Marc:But I'm still like, they're still on me about it.

01:20:18Marc:So I'm going to have to make peace with them.

01:20:20Guest:You will.

01:20:21Marc:Yeah.

01:20:21Marc:And it's great talking to you.

01:20:22Guest:Well, thank you so much.

01:20:23Marc:Thanks for having me.

01:20:24Marc:Thanks for having me.

01:20:25Marc:Nice having you.

01:20:26Guest:Thanks for having me.

01:20:28Marc:There you go.

01:20:35Marc:That's it.

01:20:35Marc:That's a journey, right?

01:20:39Marc:Hellfest opens tomorrow.

01:20:40Marc:Walking Dead returns October 7th.

01:20:43Marc:And Lore Season 2 premieres October 19th.

01:20:47Marc:Okay, no guitar playing.

01:20:48Marc:Happy birthday to me.

01:20:50Marc:Thank you for all your input on my elbow problem.

01:20:52Marc:Holy shit.

01:20:53Marc:I'm falling apart, man.

01:20:55Marc:Old man bumps on my head, smash finger, tennis elbow, bad big toes.

01:21:02Marc:This is what you work for, people.

01:21:05Marc:This is what you get if you live long enough.

01:21:08Marc:And it's just the beginning, I hope.

01:21:10Marc:Boomer lives!

01:21:25Boomer lives!