Episode 943 - Shooter Jennings / Rob Riggle
Marc:Lock the gates!
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuckineers?
Marc:What the fuckadelics?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast, WTF.
Marc:I'm not at home.
Marc:I'm in Chicago.
Marc:I'm in Chicago.
Marc:I got a show.
Marc:Well, I had a show.
Marc:I'm taping this a little early.
Marc:I just got here, but I would have had a show last night if everything went as planned.
Marc:I'm taping this a couple days before this episode airs, and this is a good episode.
Marc:I've got Shooter Jennings on, son of Waylon Jennings, country music and alt-rock and just rock and experimental music guy, Shooter Jennings.
Marc:Never met him.
Marc:Nice talking to him.
Marc:Rob Riggle is also stopping by for a second to talk about his new thing, but I'm excited to be in Chicago.
Marc:I like Chicago.
Marc:I've always liked Chicago.
Marc:I'm here to shoot the final season of Easy, Joe Swanberg's Netflix series.
Marc:I'm reprising, is that the word?
Marc:My character, Jacob Malko, the graphic novelist.
Marc:And this is it.
Marc:I think this is the last season.
Marc:And it's going to be exciting.
Marc:I'm going to be working with Jane Addams again and Melanie Linsky, who I love.
Marc:I've never worked with her.
Marc:I haven't seen her in years.
Marc:It feels like I don't think I have not since I talked to her on this show.
Marc:So that's why I'm in Chicago.
Marc:I'm also doing a show at the Thalia Hall.
Marc:But that will have all already have happened yesterday.
Marc:And let's just hear maybe.
Marc:Hey, it went great.
Marc:I'm going to try that.
Marc:Why not say that ahead of time?
Marc:Did I jinx it?
Marc:No, I don't think so.
Marc:I only think I jinx it if I get paid before the show.
Marc:But I am in Chicago.
Marc:Rob Riggle.
Marc:I've not talked to Rob Riggle in a while, and it was always good.
Marc:I like seeing Rob.
Marc:He's a good guy, solid guy, and he's solid in the real sense.
Marc:He's an ex-Marine.
Marc:He's a solid dude, and he's got a new show.
Marc:It's available on Sony Crackle.
Marc:It's called Rob Riggle's Ski Master Academy.
Marc:Premieres this Thursday, August 23rd.
Marc:You can stream it for free on Sony Crackle.
Marc:So this is me talking to Rob back at the garage.
Marc:Nice chat.
Marc:Nice chat, me and Mr. Riggle.
Marc:Got a pool?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's nice.
Guest:Yeah, we didn't for a long time.
Guest:For the first eight years, we didn't.
Guest:You built it?
Guest:You put it in?
Guest:We got a new house.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you're using it now, right?
Marc:Yes.
Guest:yes how old are the kids 10 and 14 oh so they like it they bring friends over everybody prime time everyone's hanging out at your house which is how i like it yeah believe it or not i actually like it you know where they are i kind of do and it's i must it must be a control thing but i i do like having everybody assemble right yeah just have your friends come over here exactly yeah bring you want to have a girl party bring your girls over
Guest:And we tried to make the house accommodating so that it would be a good place to gather.
Marc:Are they boys or girls?
Marc:The oldest is a girl, the youngest is a boy.
Marc:So you encourage that?
Marc:You're the cool folks.
Marc:It's fun to hang out.
Marc:Yeah, we're cool enough.
Guest:We're not the bring your coolers over and party at our house parents.
Guest:You smoke weed, smoke weed.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:We're not those folks.
Guest:But, yeah, we try to make it an entertaining house.
Guest:Those days are...
Guest:Not that we'll ever entertain the underage partying, but those days are coming soon enough.
Marc:Oh, what?
Marc:Where they're not underage anymore?
Guest:Well, she's 14, he's 10.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, the next 10 years, you're going to see some transitioning going on.
Marc:Yeah, you ready?
Marc:Are you ready?
Marc:No, nobody's ready.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I just try to remember what I did.
Guest:Well, that can't be helpful when you have a daughter.
Guest:Oh, it's the worst.
Guest:It's the worst.
Guest:Oh, that's the worst.
Guest:Because I know they're just boys...
Guest:They're walking hormones, and it's not their fault.
Guest:It's the nature.
Guest:It's the nature of the beast, and I know what they're like, and I know they're knuckleheads.
Guest:Is she like the knuckleheads?
Guest:No, she's actually really smart and very creative.
Guest:She's so far advanced beyond what I was at 14.
Marc:Yeah, you just got to keep a kind eye that a knucklehead doesn't ruin her for life.
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:And it can happen.
Marc:I know, man.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's so scary for me.
Marc:I don't even have kids.
Marc:All it takes is one shitty boyfriend to fuck everything you put into it up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The good thing is she's resilient.
Guest:So even if some turd comes along, she's going to weather that storm and be fine.
Guest:And you have a good enough relationship where she would talk to you.
Guest:Oh, absolutely.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And God bless that.
Guest:And my wife.
Guest:She'll talk...
Guest:Because, you know, obviously it may be weird to talk to dad about something.
Guest:Sure, sure, yeah.
Guest:She's good enough with mom that she can lock in.
Guest:There's no pushback.
Marc:She doesn't hate you guys.
Guest:Not yet.
Guest:She's not going to show you.
Guest:Yeah, no, thank God.
Guest:There's none of that.
Guest:It's been pretty healthy and wholesome.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:But yeah, no, I've seen the families that have that, and that's a whole other bag.
Marc:So what have you been doing, man?
Marc:I mean, I know you got this...
Marc:Ski Master Academy.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But what have you been doing since... When was the last time I saw you?
Marc:Like five years ago?
Marc:I think it was.
Guest:It was probably four years ago, four or five years ago.
Marc:Have you been doing movies and stuff?
Guest:What have you been doing?
Guest:I have been.
Guest:I've been... I'm always working.
Guest:That's the thing.
Guest:You are.
Guest:Because the only thing is, and you know this as well as I do, you eat what you kill.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So if you're not hustling all the time,
Guest:you're gonna be hurting or if you're not making yourself available in an aggressive way yeah and you got i got like five irons in the fire at all times calling your agent going i'm here yeah what's up yeah yeah yeah you remember that thing we talked about and then it's a constant struggle to get your reps on the phone i know yeah yeah and then you get a return call at the worst possible fucking time yeah or it may stop everything because you're a desperate you know fuck
Marc:That's it.
Marc:Everything falls apart for your image of who you are to the public, to yourself, when you're waiting to talk to a rep, and then the phone rings, oh, God, I got to take this.
Guest:I got to take this.
Guest:It's a funeral.
Guest:And you jump out of whatever you're doing, and then when you answer it, you try to be nonchalant and cool, like, hey, Tom, what's going on, man?
Guest:It's kind of an annoyance you call, but what's up?
Marc:Yeah, what's up?
Marc:Hold on a second.
Guest:I'll be right there.
Marc:It's the agent.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Guest:Go ahead, man.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then they're like, what do you want, Riggle?
Guest:And I was like, hey, do you remember that thing we talked about?
Guest:I was just thinking maybe if it was possible we could have lunch and then I could maybe explain myself why this is such a great idea.
Guest:Okay, we'll see what we can do.
Guest:Don't panic too much.
Guest:Just relax.
Guest:Try to relax, kid.
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:Then you hang up, you go back to what you're doing.
Marc:Ah, you know, nothing.
Guest:There's nothing.
Guest:Piece of shit.
Guest:Yeah, so no, I've been working, trying to, I spent like four and a half months down in Atlanta last year just doing films.
Marc:That's where everything is now.
Marc:I'm telling you, that's, yeah, that or Vancouver.
Guest:Was it the summer?
Guest:It was, part of it was in the summer, part of it was in the spring.
Marc:Oh, summer in Atlanta.
Marc:Rough.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's humid here now.
Marc:When did that fucking happen?
Marc:It feels like New Jersey out there.
Guest:I don't dig it either because one of the advantages of California is no humidity.
Guest:What's going on?
Guest:Yeah, it's horse shit.
Guest:And I don't know where it's coming from.
Guest:Yeah, it's coming in from fucking Jersey.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:From Jersey.
Guest:It's somewhere.
Guest:I'm real terrible.
Guest:Somebody's pumping in this humidity that ain't part of our program out here.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:The program seems to be changing rapidly.
Guest:75, sunny, crystal clear, and crisp.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and then at night it drops down a beautiful 55.
Guest:That's nice.
Guest:So you got a nice sweatshirt or whatever, and you're golden, and it's the most beautiful weather in the world.
Marc:Yeah, here.
Guest:Here, and now- Last year, two years ago.
Guest:It's all of a sudden, it's fucking Orlando.
Guest:Yeah, I don't know what's going on.
Marc:Where it's just a wet sauna.
Marc:I don't know what happened.
Marc:I don't dig it.
Marc:I don't dig it at all.
Marc:It was really one of the only good things about living out here.
Guest:Yeah!
Guest:Yeah, because I was like, this state's so fucking expensive and the taxes.
Marc:And I'm like, it's a weather tax.
Marc:It's worth it because of the weather tax.
Marc:Yeah, no.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:I don't know, dude.
Marc:So, oh, Vancouver, too.
Marc:You were up there doing work?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I did a couple films up there as well.
Guest:And 12 Strong, which was a war movie with Chris Hemsworth and Michael Shannon.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Marc:And you were one of the guys with the helmets?
Marc:I was one of the- Which war?
Guest:Afghanistan.
Guest:And actually, funny story, I actually played in the movie Lieutenant Colonel Max Bowers, who was in charge of the 3rd Battalion 5th Special Forces Group in Mazar-e-Sharif in northern Afghanistan in October of 2001.
Guest:As a young captain myself in the Marines, I reported to Lieutenant Colonel Max Bowers in November of 2001 in Mazar-e-Sharif and worked on his staff, and then I play him in the movie.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:So I'm playing my old boss in the movie.
Marc:So you kind of had a line in.
Guest:Oh, well, I knew the whole thing.
Guest:I knew everything about their program, the mission that they did, even because I had a security clearance.
Guest:So I knew what their mission was.
Guest:This was just declassified a couple of years back.
Guest:That must have been cool.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it was fun to see the story finally get to, you know.
Guest:How they do with it.
Guest:They did a good job.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:I think they did a good job.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now, when you're on a set like that, do you stop the action and go like, yeah, I don't think you guys are quite doing this.
Guest:I was there.
Guest:Sometimes, and it just comes down to the nomenclature of the language.
Guest:Right.
Guest:whatever i can't even think of an example right now but if they get that wrong i say actually i think it would be said this way in marine speak in marine speak or you know military speak because it's all acronyms anyway but right um and they were they were open to it but for the most part they they had their shit squared away no that's cool man
Guest:that's cool and then i did a drama which a heavy drama where i play a father of a wait was the war movie a comedy well it was a i call that a straight role more than a drama okay all right um but uh the drama was like you know i mean we're talking about some really moating here some real some deep subjects like my daughter in the movie was dying oh my god disease and so i i never get those opportunities and and that was a really cool how'd you do with it i
Guest:I think I did okay.
Guest:Just cry.
Guest:People, yeah, I got tore up.
Guest:But people liked it.
Guest:Good.
Guest:It went well.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:Yeah, and now I have a movie coming out, Kevin Hart and Tiffany Haddish, called Night School.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Coming out in September.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:And then this thing, Robert Will Ski Master Academy, is an idea I've had forever.
Guest:And I finally got off my lazy ass and put the pitch together.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And got somebody to buy off on it, Sony Crackle.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:God bless them.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:So this was like originally years ago, like a Comedy Central or Funny or Die pitch or what?
Guest:No, you know what it was?
Guest:It actually started people, you know, this fucking town.
Guest:Hey, what are you working on?
Guest:What are you working on, Riggle?
Guest:What are you working on these days?
Guest:What are you working on?
Guest:And I would say, I finally got to the point where I was tired of explaining myself.
Guest:So I would just say, I'm thinking about opening a Jet Ski Academy.
Guest:And that would be my answer.
Guest:A what academy?
Guest:A jet ski academy.
Guest:Oh, jet ski, jet ski.
Marc:Okay, yeah.
Guest:And I'd say, I've been given a lot of thought to open a jet ski academy, and I would say with a straight face and a very sincere delivery, and most of the comedians I knew I was doing a bit and fucking around, but a lot of folks didn't fucking know.
Guest:They didn't know.
Guest:And so they'd be like, oh, that's amazing.
Guest:That's amazing.
Guest:When did you get, you know, and I wouldn't give it up.
Guest:I would just say, oh, well.
Guest:With that fucking horrible, sad voice.
Guest:Like, oh, good for you.
Guest:So you're out, huh?
Guest:You quit.
Guest:Yeah, good for you.
Guest:Yeah, and then you could see their mind.
Marc:They were like, good, good.
Marc:Another one bites the dust.
Marc:But it's just a dumb sort of like, you know, all of a sudden you're a victim of some kind.
Marc:Oh, well, that's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Jet skis.
Guest:No, it's fun, fun.
Guest:Any life decision you make that doesn't fit their model.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Ooh, okay.
Guest:Good for you.
Guest:You're okay, though, right?
Yeah.
Guest:Oh, God, I know that.
Guest:I know that fucking judgment.
Guest:I know it.
Guest:It's the worst, man.
Guest:It's the worst.
Guest:So anyway, that's how it started.
Guest:It started that way, and then I started thinking about it.
Guest:I was like, that would be a funny world, actually.
Guest:A jet ski academy?
Guest:If I owned a jet ski academy, I'd be like this B-list celebrity who fucking... Just like Oprah has her school in Africa, and now LeBron has his school in Cleveland.
Guest:Why not me have my academy?
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:And so I created... For those less fortunate white people.
Guest:Is that what you... Well, I mean, look...
Guest:Teaching personal watercraft safety to troubled urban youth.
Guest:All right.
Guest:I see the sense in that.
Guest:Oh, troubled urban youth.
Guest:That's what you're using?
Guest:Sure, why not?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So anyway, I put together a pitch with a couple comedy buddies, and Sony Crackle bought into it.
Marc:Was it like Caddyshack?
Marc:It's, um, do you know what I mean?
Marc:Is it like, there's just some, you know, you got a few guys working at the place.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:One of them's a stoner.
Marc:One of them's like a troublemaker.
Guest:We have a, we have, uh, it's set up like an Academy.
Guest:So you have students and you have, uh, instructors and then you have me, uh, who, who is like the figurehead who runs it, but I'm kind of, they're kind of not, I'm very self-serving.
Marc:As an academy, though, it's a jet skiing academy.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So it's obnoxious to begin with.
Marc:It's absurd.
Marc:It's like fun school.
Guest:Yeah, pretty much.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And there's all kinds of mischief that the cadets get into.
Marc:Do they live at the school?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:Oh, so it's like camp.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Like two-week program?
Guest:Or boarding school, maybe.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Or boarding school.
Marc:Do you have regular school, too?
Marc:No, God, no.
Marc:Oh, so it's just- There's no time for that.
Marc:So it's just- But how long are they- Personal work?
Marc:I'm sorry if I'm asking too many detailed questions.
Marc:Well- I want to know if this is realistic or not, Rob.
Guest:It's super realistic.
Guest:I mean, it's a whole nother level.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You're not- We didn't miss a single thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We didn't miss a single thing.
Marc:So, but no, seriously, so how long do they stay there?
Marc:You know, it doesn't matter.
Marc:We'll say a school year.
Marc:Sure, okay.
Marc:A school year.
Marc:So they don't go to regular school and they just learn how to do jet skiing for the year.
Guest:That's right, because we actually, at the end of eight episodes, they did graduate from the academy.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:Maybe eight episodes.
Guest:That's how long they go to school.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:That's about right.
Guest:That sounds about right.
Guest:That's about right.
Marc:Who are the other goofballs on this thing?
Guest:Paul Scheer.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's one of my old-time buddies from UCB.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Eliza Coop.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Very funny lady.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Billy Merritt.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, a lot of UCB guys.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then, you know, I reached out to Cheech Marin.
Guest:He came out and played with us.
Guest:Did he?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Dermot Mulroney, Jamie Lynn Sigler, David Arquette.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:All came in as guest stars.
Guest:Chris McDonald, who you may know as Shooter McGavin, and Happy Gilmore.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:If you saw that.
Guest:If you didn't see that, you probably saw Grease 2.
Guest:He was one of the T-birds in Grease 2.
Marc:Yeah, you know, I might have missed both of those.
Marc:I might have.
Marc:I don't know how, but okay.
Marc:I don't know how I miss most things either, but I do.
Marc:I do miss most things.
Guest:Do you find yourself, in this town especially, I'm constantly being told, all right, I know there's a lot out there, but you've got to watch this.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:You've got to watch this.
Guest:And now my list of what I've got to watch is fucking ridiculous.
Marc:Yeah, who the fuck are these people telling you that?
Marc:Or there's also people where, you know, when it's like, hey, everybody knows this thing.
Marc:How do you not know it?
Marc:I'm like, I guess I'm not in the right loop.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't pay that much attention to Twitter anymore, but all of a sudden, everybody knows a thing, and I'm like, how did I miss it?
Marc:How did I miss it?
Marc:I get news on my phone.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:And also, I'm starting to feel my age because I did an improv show the other night, and we dropped- You were winded?
Guest:We dropped, well, that.
Guest:But I dropped a reference of Michael Dukakis.
Guest:Oh, boy.
Guest:And I literally saw everybody look at each other like, I don't know.
Guest:No, Michael Dukakis.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And I realized, oh shit.
Guest:Most of this audience was born 89, 90.
Guest:How old do you now?
Guest:I'm 48.
Marc:Yeah, I'm 54.
Marc:I'm gonna be 55 next month.
Guest:They didn't know who Dukakis was.
Marc:Yeah, dude, yeah.
Marc:I'm doing like a, I have a Palm Pilot reference in one of my jokes.
Marc:And the part, half of the joke is me explaining what it is.
Guest:That's good stuff though, that's really good.
Guest:That's awesome.
Guest:Did I hear you say you were working on a new set?
Marc:I shouldn't give anything away.
Marc:I don't want to give anything away.
Marc:Oh, no, no, no.
Marc:I'm doing some dates, trying to put together an hour.
Marc:Oh, that's awesome.
Marc:I've got a lot of it.
Marc:It seems like that's something we need to do every year.
Marc:Someone made this secret rule where you've got to turn over an hour every year.
Marc:I think that's Louis C.K., isn't it?
Marc:Kind of, but there were guys who did it before.
Marc:He just made a spectacle of it.
Guest:He was churning them.
Marc:Yeah, but a lot of those guys, like Carlin would do one every year.
Marc:I mean, it's not that unusual when it's your bread and butter to a comic if you were one of the HBO guys who got specials.
Marc:A year and a half, a year.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I'd do it anyways, it turns out, really.
Marc:But now you think you're more conscious of it, you know?
Marc:And then there's that, like, once you dump the hour, there's that moment where you're like, I got nothing.
Marc:Where does it come from?
Marc:That's a lonely place.
Marc:It is, but, like, it just comes out of nowhere.
Marc:It comes out of thin air for me.
Marc:You know, it's like, I don't know, things are starting to come together somehow.
Marc:You know, if I keep getting on stage.
Guest:That's very true.
Guest:And it's a scary process.
Guest:But once you do it a couple times, you just trust in the process.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You just like, well, I riff out stuff like you're an improviser.
Marc:I do that with stand up.
Marc:So I'll go to a low key place, you know, with my, you know, outline of ideas.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And just riff them out and see what sticks and then try to remember.
Marc:I always think like I'll listen to it and I'll make notes.
Marc:I never do.
Marc:It's like it's going to stick here.
Marc:Like, you know, that thing.
Marc:I lose like.
Guest:Especially when you get on stage, it flies out of your head.
Marc:Yeah, but also, what are you really gonna work on?
Marc:But then you should go listen to the tapes because they're like, oh, there was that one beat.
Marc:What was it?
Marc:And I'm like, I don't even.
Guest:I didn't embrace taping myself for a long time.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then I did once.
Guest:I finally remembered to do it.
Guest:Maybe it was just I forgot.
Guest:And I remembered one show.
Guest:I think it was at the University of Missouri, but I took my phone and I put it on the bench of the stool and recorded the show.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So fucking glad I did that because I went back and I listened.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I finally kind of heard my own show and I heard the responses.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And it really helped dial in some things.
Guest:Tighten it up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What are you doing?
Guest:And I lost a lot of superfluous shit because there's always.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You want to fill time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Of course.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:Let me over explain this for 10 minutes.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:And when you say when you are discovering stuff, I remember John Oliver was the guy who kind of got me to do stand up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he would start, I would just go tell a story.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A three-minute story, five-minute story.
Guest:And I knew where there would be some punches.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But the rest was kind of, let's see what we can do in the storytelling process.
Marc:Yeah, sure, yeah.
Guest:And that's where I would wing it, and I would get laughs where there weren't any.
Guest:And I'd say, okay, got to remember that, got to remember that.
Guest:Right, exactly, exactly.
Guest:And then you just tell the story a hundred times, and eventually...
Guest:You got three tight, funny minutes.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Embellish it.
Marc:You can get more minutes.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Go off on thoughts within the story.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:So do you still do stand-up a lot?
Marc:No.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:No.
Guest:I have not done it.
Guest:And the reason is because my set was done.
Guest:It had a two-year, three-year run.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How about two?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:three-year run so do you see that as a show because i mean you don't really come from stand-up so when you put together a show you know do you are you in character you go as you know when i'm doing stand-up yeah i do uh it's me yeah um and if i'm doing improv it's improv you know you play what you got to play right right right um but uh yeah the the
Guest:I wasn't playing theaters.
Guest:I was playing clubs, and I was on the road a lot.
Guest:I had two young kids.
Guest:The return on investment was questionable.
Guest:Time investment, you mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I was gone so much, and the money was okay, but it wasn't- Missing the kids growing up kind of thing.
Marc:It was a lot of stuff.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Life doesn't like you anymore.
Guest:A lot of that.
Guest:A lot of that.
Guest:And I still liked her a lot.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You're out there in Siberia.
Guest:Fuck yeah.
Marc:She's just like, why isn't he helping me?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And somehow I'm bringing home the money, but I'm still the bad guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's a whole nother thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Your children don't know your name.
Marc:You want to do your act for them?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Maybe they'll enjoy that.
Guest:Oh, shit.
Guest:So I stopped doing it, but I don't think I'm going to quit it.
Guest:I just need to get to a stage where I can get back into it.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And now that I live out here, I got to be honest, fucking New York is the place to build a set.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because you can hit five mics easy.
Guest:Yeah, you can do that here.
Marc:It's just a chore.
Guest:It's a chore.
Guest:For me, it's a fucking chore.
Guest:Live it out a thousand miles.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then it's a half hour between gigs, and maybe you get two or three mics a night, too.
Marc:But to do stand-up.
Guest:To get up and work out like 10, 15 minutes or whatever.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, and you also got to be in, you know, it's better to do it at a club.
Marc:Like when I'm trying to really build an hour, I used to go to the Steve Allen Theater and just like do a month of Tuesdays.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And just, you know, $5 ticket and just riff, you know, for an hour or two to see what happens.
Marc:Now I've been going to the Ice House, but the Ice House is actually a real club.
Guest:The Pasadena?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And so like, you know, I want to riff and do shit, but you're like, this is a real comedy club.
Marc:So that muscle goes in like, I gotta give him a good show.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But that's a hot room.
Guest:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Good.
Guest:Good, good, good.
Guest:You should go there.
Guest:Yeah, no, I have buddies that go there.
Guest:Sarah Tiana and Roy Albanese.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:These guys, they hit that place a lot.
Marc:Yeah, it's a good workout room.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's almost like cheating.
Marc:It's such a good room.
Guest:Oh, good.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So, how do people watch this?
Marc:Is it easy to watch?
Guest:It's so easy.
Guest:It's on Sony Crackle, which is free.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Which is great.
Guest:Because, you know, some of these pay in these digital sites, Netflix and Hulu, I love them, but you got to pay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This Sony Crackle is free.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And how do you get there?
Guest:You can Google it.
Guest:You can get the app on your phone.
Marc:Sony Crackle.
Guest:Sony Crackle.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then it comes out August 23rd.
Guest:All the episodes will be out.
Guest:And it's a really funny show with an amazing cast.
Guest:It's ridiculous comedy.
Guest:There's no message or agenda.
Guest:It's just straight up fucking balls out comedy.
Marc:Good.
Marc:So you did eight.
Marc:Yeah, I did eight.
Marc:And now what are you doing?
Guest:uh well i just shot a pilot for fox okay literally last night oh really yeah how'd it go taped it last night it went great who's in it is it all you uh no it's a three-hander it's uh uh caitlin olson from uh always sunny in philadelphia yeah uh and um the mick and also leah remny yeah and myself i was funny ladies yeah it's it's a it's a great you're a funny lady it's a great thank you very much um i get that a lot especially with this beard yeah um
Marc:Did you get some laughs?
Marc:Three camera thing?
Guest:Yeah, it was a multi-cam.
Marc:No shit.
Guest:Yeah, and we got some laughs, and it was great having the audience.
Guest:A live audience always makes things better.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And it was cool.
Guest:So we taped it, literally taped it last night, and who knows, we have to test it and edit it.
Marc:For FX or for Fox?
Marc:For Fox.
Marc:For Fox.
Marc:Exciting, man.
Marc:Thanks, bud.
Marc:I'm glad you're working.
Marc:You seem well.
Guest:Yeah, I'm very impressed with your... Can I mention your house?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Your house is gorgeous.
Marc:Oh, thanks, buddy.
Marc:Yeah, I really love it, and I'm proud of you.
Marc:Thank you very much.
Marc:I'm going to try to keep it... I'm going to try not to tell people where it is.
Marc:Yeah, I'm with you.
Marc:I'm with you.
Marc:But it's a gorgeous house, man.
Marc:Thank you very much.
Marc:I appreciate that.
Marc:I got lucky.
Marc:Thanks, man.
Marc:You did well.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Rob Riggle.
Marc:Isn't that fun?
Marc:Did I just say that?
Marc:Wasn't that fun?
Marc:I never say that.
Marc:I never say we're going to have fun.
Marc:That sounds like fun.
Marc:Ooh, fun.
Marc:Wasn't that fun?
Marc:Man, something's changing.
Marc:Something is happening in ironic counterbalance to the world with my well-being and sense of self.
Marc:I'm going to let it happen.
Marc:I'm going to keep letting it happen.
Marc:So I almost had Shooter Jennings on a while back.
Marc:We got common friends in Jeff Tate, but it never happened.
Marc:Now, I'll try to catch up, man.
Marc:This new record, Shooter's new record, I got to be honest with you, it's a straight-up country record.
Marc:It's called Shooter.
Marc:It's available now wherever you get music.
Marc:And I...
Marc:You know, his dad is Waylon Jennings, and many of you know that I grew up in New Mexico, but I was surrounded by country music to a certain degree.
Marc:I didn't engage in it much, but I am old enough to remember what was unleashed on the country
Marc:After the Urban Cowboy movie with John Travolta and Deborah Winger and John Glenn, I believe, who mostly what I remember of that movie is John Glenn taking the last shot of some mezcal tequila and playing with the caterpillar in between his teeth and a mechanical bull and line dancing.
Marc:Well, after that happened, I don't even know the year on that, but I must have been in junior high or high school.
Marc:But all of a sudden, there were large Western dance halls opening up, at least where I lived in New Mexico.
Marc:And there was a very large contingent of people tucking their shirts in, wearing cowboy hats and cowboy boots, and jigging in a line at these large dance halls.
Marc:That was what...
Marc:clubbing looked like in the southwest at a certain period in history but uh the cowboy culture exists where i grew up in the state fair was always they always had waylon and willie and johnny and roy and buck and whoever merle and george and dolly loretta they were always there every year at the rodeo at the state fair and uh i grew up sort of
Marc:Not with much cowboy in me, per se, and not with it in the house, but I did have boots.
Marc:I had boots, and at some point, I had a hat.
Marc:I had a straw Stetson hat.
Marc:I wore some black cowboy boots when I was a grown man during that time where you wore black cowboy boots.
Marc:All right, so Shooter.
Marc:Yeah, man, it was good talking to Shooter.
Marc:It was good talking to him about his dad.
Marc:It was good talking to him about his music.
Marc:It was good talking to him about his new record.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, and I like the record.
Marc:The record's fucking straight up country, and he's got a very eclectic catalog, this Shooter Jennings character.
Marc:And as I told you, I got a little nostalgic.
Marc:Albuquerque, New Mexico, Cowboy Hats Caravan Dance Club, where my dad used to go during his secret life and dance and Western style.
Marc:And just the basic, you know, pickups.
Marc:That element that was there was sort of infused into the culture.
Marc:You know, I had a Western belt.
Marc:Still do.
Marc:That Western belt buckle.
Marc:Still do.
Marc:Don't wear it much.
Marc:Got some new cowboy boots.
Marc:Haven't worn them.
Marc:I got them because I wore them in a movie.
Marc:But maybe I'll wear them.
Marc:It's in there.
Marc:That's all I'm saying.
Marc:So I just, I brought that a little bit.
Marc:I think I did.
Marc:Anyway, so this is me talking to Shooter Jennings.
Marc:His new record, Shooter, is available now wherever you get your music.
Marc:Nice chat with him.
Marc:Yeah, I remember that Tate and I tried to hook me and you up, Jeff Tate.
Marc:Yeah, I love Jeff.
Marc:And how, you go back with him or like?
Guest:I met him through, oh, I met Doug Benson first.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I went on Doug's thing, getting Doug with High thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then he had, Doug started following me around touring and doing those Doug Love Movies things.
Guest:And he invited me to one of those.
Guest:That's where I met Jeff.
Guest:He started following you on purpose?
Guest:Yeah, they kind of, they booked a couple of those along my route and kind of, so there was like a couple times that they were in the same cities as me and it was like.
Marc:Well, that's nice to have a little comedian following.
Marc:Yeah, it was fun, man.
Marc:I was out with Dean Del Rey last night.
Marc:Oh, I did his thing one time.
Marc:I know, yeah, he told me, yeah, I talked to him for like nine hours.
Marc:Dean talks to everybody for nine hours.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then he trims it down.
Marc:Yeah, but he was talking about Star Gun.
Marc:Oh, boy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:My old man.
Marc:Well, Dean was going on about Star Gun because he was out here during that time.
Marc:What was that, the late 80s or something?
Marc:No, God, are you kidding me?
Marc:Mid-90s?
Marc:It was 2000.
Marc:Oh, you're younger than us.
Marc:I forgot.
Marc:I was born in 79.
Marc:Yeah, we're born.
Marc:I'm born in 63.
Marc:I think Dino is, too.
Marc:So it was a mid 90s.
Marc:But like, I listened to some of it this morning.
Marc:And what do we mean?
Marc:It's great shit.
Guest:I get I don't know.
Guest:It's cringe worthy to me sometimes because, you know, I mean, I was 20 years, 21 years old writing all this shit and I couldn't.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I didn't know what to write or to do.
Marc:Right, but it's sort of interesting that, you know, it was just solid, you know, hard rock music.
Marc:Right on.
Marc:And it was like, you know, it was L.A.
Marc:hard rock music with that, you know, the lyrics were sort of like, you know, I'm in L.A.
Marc:basically, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, dude.
Guest:It's so... Exactly.
Marc:I can see how that might be embarrassing.
Guest:It's very cringeworthy.
Guest:Lyrically, it's so embarrassing.
Guest:There's some things, you know, but I'm like screaming and yes and all.
Guest:But I mean, I literally could not have been more redneck off the turnip truck type of situation in moving to LA.
Guest:I mean, I lived...
Guest:I mean, I'm not like a redneck hunter or anything like that, but I lived in Nashville, and I'm like, ooh, L.A., like, I want to go there.
Guest:That's where all the rock stars and all my favorite dudes went, you know, and I visited as a kid.
Marc:But you must have had some sense.
Marc:I mean, I can't imagine.
Marc:Like, first of all, like, the idea...
Marc:You know, because I've talked to a few cats who, you know, your dad is Waylon Jennings.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So it takes some sort of insanity or balls to be like, well, I'm Waylon Jennings, kid.
Marc:I'm going to sing too.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Like, you know, because that could go either way.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:A lot of potential for failure.
Guest:I mean, dude, like for me, I was so like an MTV kid and a rock kid and shit living in Nashville.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Me and my dad were very close.
Guest:He was a great dad.
Guest:It wasn't one of those situations where like the famous dad, never see him or something.
Guest:We were very close.
Marc:And he wasn't some weird, abusive, drugged out freak in the house.
Marc:Not at all, man.
Guest:He was like, he was a great, you know, and I, he had me late too.
Guest:So I probably missed some of the craziness that like my older brothers and sisters did.
Guest:What's the age difference?
Guest:My youngest is 15 years older than me.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, my youngest one.
Guest:That's my mom's daughter from her previous marriage to Dwayne Eddy.
Guest:So it's like my mom had one and my dad had five.
Marc:Well, your mom, Jesse Coulter, right?
Marc:That's right.
Marc:And she's a significant country star.
Guest:They were on the Outlaws thing together.
Guest:She was married to Dwayne Eddy?
Guest:Dwayne Eddy before, yeah.
Marc:So you got a half-brother who's Dwayne Eddy's kid?
Marc:Half-sister.
Marc:Half-sister who's Dwayne Eddy's kid?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Rebel Rouser?
Marc:That's right.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Yeah, I used to go over to his house as a kid.
Guest:Now, I love that thing.
Guest:Yeah, I love Dwayne Eddy.
Guest:He's fucking awesome.
Guest:But I was there.
Guest:I mean, man, you got to understand, I'm still just a big kid.
Guest:And when I was little, one of the most profound influences on me was the Muppet movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because here's all this Hollywood business.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then there was, like, my dad did that movie, Follow That Bird, and it was, like, Big Bird.
Guest:So, like, as a kid, I was getting ingrained in this, like, this Hollywood thing.
Guest:And then I discovered, like, Guns N' Roses, and then that led to the back history of Hollywood and the Doors and all this stuff.
Guest:And then I was into Nine Inch Nails and fucking Marilyn Manson and all this shit.
Guest:And I was, like...
Guest:that's where i'm going like there was either new york or la like nashville in my opinion it blew the music sucked like there were a couple maybe okay rock bands that were burgeoning around there like jason the scorchers and shit but oh yeah but otherwise it was really shitty and i i hated the wayland's kid thing i did not want to play country at the time i was like i'm out of here yeah and i moved here and man i
Guest:I didn't have any foresight to that but I got here and spent you know a good 10 years where I was there was no Waylon talk at all like I was I could not get into the clubs or whatever the party places just like everybody else could not get into them no one cared about Waylon right there's only like one or two people play on you in a little while it's like wait a minute you guys should know my dad no I loved
Guest:And I was a kid and I was 20 years, 21 years old, like spending my drinking years away from my parents and being nuts.
Marc:Yeah, because I have to assume that, you know, your entire life in Nashville, you know, you got everybody saying, there's Waylon's kid.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:Like you grew up with that, but like, but in terms of like how you grew up, so your dad was married before your mom.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And had like another couple of kids.
Marc:She's got a kid.
Guest:He had five from several other marriages and like he had his first.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, my mom was his fourth marriage and my mom had one previous marriage.
Guest:So by the time that we, but you know, it was weird cause I'm growing up and all, and all of those kids were around.
Guest:Where they were?
Guest:They had gotten... Of course, I missed out probably their teenage years where things were more confusing.
Marc:Of course.
Guest:But they were all together.
Guest:They had kids.
Guest:I have two nephews that are a year younger than me.
Guest:One of them's a rapper named Struggle, and the other one's a singer named Way.
Guest:But I grew up with them like same-age brothers, but they're like my brother's kids.
Marc:Oh, I get it.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:So there were other music.
Marc:Did any of the siblings go into music?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Um, my sister plays piano and sings and she does her thing.
Guest:She kind of does more spiritual stuff and kind of along the lines of what my mom's into.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Your mom's become a, was it always a, she, well, around the time that I was born, she became pretty, but her, her parents, like her mom was a, was a preacher and they grew up in like a kind of revivalist kind of church in Mesa where they were like,
Guest:they had like a tent and they would you know and she would play in the band and her whole family grew up that's where she learned that yeah that's where she learned the tent racket right and then she kind of came back around came back around to it later in life you know but it's like so my my sisters kind of ended out and my my brothers have dabbled in the business a little bit but like my nephews like those two are singer almost everyone that has been a spawn of those of my brothers and sisters have all gone into music like i think they've kind of seen the
Guest:the whole thing and wanted to jump in, but it's funny.
Guest:It's cool.
Guest:I mean, it's like our family's been so, music's been around it that it's almost like, even if they weren't in music, they knew a lot about music.
Marc:Well, Waylon, I grew up in New Mexico, and I remember, and my dad's wife,
Marc:literally is uh you know she's such a willie nelson head that it's like it's it's freakish like she had a quilt made of uh just concert t-shirts of basically willie nelson i love it that sounds like my my wife's mom my wife's mom kathy is like she has like a like misty in our house we have like a velvet willie that used to hang over one of the beds in their house they grew up in you know
Marc:So, what I'm trying to picture, though, is like, because Nashville was certainly a different town when you were a young guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right?
Marc:A young kid.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:Way different.
Marc:Like, it really, it kind of turned in the last decade, really.
Guest:Last five years.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It feels like it's, I mean, it's 100 people moving there a day.
Guest:I mean.
Guest:Really?
Guest:It's got, yeah, crazy.
Guest:I think that number's starting to drop off, but over the last two years, it was like 100 people a day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's kind of crazy to watch sheep move though, because it's like, I remember moving here where it was like, you don't go to Silver Lake.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then all of a sudden like people started coming in and then like, I remember when Austin was starting to burgeon, like be pretty cool about like 10 years ago, people started moving there.
Guest:And then all of a sudden like Nashville happens in like Brooklyn and, and Silver Lake kind of start emptying out and they all start moving to Nashville.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, because there's this whole artisanal roots music sort of, you know, back to the earth, grow a beard chick going on.
Marc:We got to get to that.
Marc:The lumberjack.
Marc:Yeah, the deep American music.
Marc:Well, there's some cats like, you know, and then like this sort of, you know, there was this, I'll talk about this more specifically in a minute, but it seemed like there was, you know, this original wave.
Marc:You know, whatever happens in mainstream country, you know, post your dad, you know, has always had some pushback from other country artists who are trying to make it more organic again as it got a sort of further away from the roots of country.
Marc:There was that first, you know, there.
Marc:Well, there was obviously Graham Parsons and that crew.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And Emily Harris.
Marc:But then, you know, Steve Earle and those guys.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then it seems like you and Sturgill and Margo.
Marc:Oh, Margo Price.
Marc:Margo Price.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just met her the other day for the first time.
Marc:I think she's great.
Marc:She's great.
Marc:So you're growing up in this.
Marc:Because I know you did this little sort of memorial album for George Jones, who I love.
Marc:I love George Jones.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And just the idea that you're a little kid and you're in Nashville.
Marc:And who are the people that are coming over the house?
Guest:George came over a lot.
Guest:I mean, I'll tell you, my dad's closest friends.
Guest:What I would kind of say were...
Guest:Um, Carl Smith, who's great old country singer.
Guest:One of my dad's kind of icons that when he was a kid, he, one of his heroes and they became friends.
Guest:He would come over a lot.
Guest:Tony Joe white.
Guest:I don't know if you ever got into him.
Guest:He's unbelievable.
Guest:He wrote rainy night in Georgia and all that.
Guest:Like he, he's a Polk salad Annie anyway.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:Tony Joe white was one of the greatest.
Guest:He used to come around a lot.
Guest:George would come around a lot, you know, uh, before and after he got sober, um, you know,
Guest:I don't remember, to be honest with you, any real stories of him not being sober, but my mom always tells stories about when I was little and he was trying to get off the booze and shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But they would come around, you know.
Guest:Willie and stuff would occasionally come over, but he lived in Texas.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So those cats were kind of living there.
Marc:Christopherson.
Guest:Yeah, he'd kind of be around.
Guest:Christopherson's the one that I'm the closest with since post my dad dying.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I see him.
Guest:Even now, I see him quite a bit.
Guest:Is he in Nashville?
Yeah.
Guest:No, he lives in L.A., between L.A.
Guest:and Hawaii.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:He kind of lives in Hawaii.
Marc:How's he doing?
Marc:How's his head?
Guest:He's good, man.
Guest:I mean, he's gone through some crazy shit that they thought was like Alzheimer's first and then it was Lyme disease.
Guest:Like they figured out he had some, you know, so he's been going through a lot of stuff.
Guest:But he's like awesome.
Guest:He's still there.
Guest:Everything's there.
Guest:It's just like he has moments where he like trips over facts and history.
Guest:Who doesn't?
Guest:Right.
Guest:But like my kids have gotten to be around him and stuff, which has meant a lot to me and them.
Guest:And so it's like, yeah, he's a good, I mean, he called me the first couple of father's days after my dad died, which I never would have expected to get.
Marc:Oh man, that's sweet.
Guest:Very sweet stuff.
Marc:So, so when you're coming up though, when do you decide like, what's that moment?
Marc:Cause I've talked to, who have I talked to?
Marc:I've talked to Jacob Dillon.
Marc:I've talked to, you know, uh, Duncan Jones, who's David Bowie's kid.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And obviously it's a different arena.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Duncan, man, I love Moon.
Marc:Yeah, it's great.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:I liked his new one, too.
Marc:I haven't seen it yet.
Marc:And, you know, there's sort of the weight of it.
Marc:But I think with country, there's more of a tradition of family.
Marc:totally a because julian lennon had it a lot harder than i think anybody in country ever had you know right it's like and then like you got the whole carter cash you know empire or there must have been a dozen of them and the williams yeah it must have been a dozen i mean to different degrees of fame but yeah and then hank one two and three hank three's a little you know punk rock right yeah he like pushes the envelope that guy
Guest:Yeah, and metal and everything.
Guest:I mean, dude, he did something so profound by putting out, like, Straight to Hell.
Guest:Like, it created an entire genre.
Guest:Like, there is still to this day... Metal country?
Guest:Metal country bluegrass guys that are doing, like, you know, where it's kind of, like, stringed instruments, but, like, these metal kind of lyrics and arrangements and screams.
Guest:So he kind of, like... So his old man is Hank, too?
Guest:Hank Jr., yeah.
Guest:Yeah, that guy's something.
Guest:Yeah, he is.
Guest:Boy, he's a good artist, though.
Guest:It's like somewhere along the way towards the end, I don't know what Kool-Aid got drank, but there was these 12 records in a row where he was the fucking best.
Marc:Right, really, yeah.
Marc:So you look to that stuff a lot.
Marc:To his earlier stuff.
Marc:Yeah, no, yeah.
Guest:Songwriting-wise and singing-wise.
Marc:He can play, too, right?
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:He's a piano, guitar, and everything.
Marc:And how's Hank 3?
Marc:Also, the great thing about generational artists is that you can see the sickness.
Guest:Right.
Marc:The pattern.
Marc:How's everybody holding up over in Hank Williams' land?
Marc:oh man or you how do you hold up i mean i don't know what i mean there's this sort of uh this archetype right like the outlaw country dude and i think like to a certain degree when i was younger you know i had my heroes they were never sober they were they were always fucking disasters right and you know the party you don't know whether it's genetic or you're just sort of like well this is what i want to do you know i want to be like that and then at some point if you live long enough you're like i'm tired man yeah it's
Guest:That's so true, man.
Guest:I mean, dude, for me, it's weird.
Guest:It's like my dad never drank, but I drank all the time.
Guest:He didn't do nothing?
Guest:No, he did.
Guest:He did pills back in the 60s and 70s, and then when cocaine came out, that was his...
Marc:He's a pharmaceutical guy.
Guest:Powders and pills.
Guest:Uppers was his thing.
Guest:You gotta come down.
Guest:I'm more of a weed and booze guy.
Guest:But, you know, like, I guess there is somewhat of an archetype, but I think that it's an archetype that, like, it goes across all artistic things.
Guest:I mean, you know, like, my favorite writers are, like, Hunter S. Thompson and Charles Bukowski and people that are, like, we're fucking... Yeah, of course.
Guest:Excess monsters, you know, and it's, like, to me, I just, like...
Guest:I think there's just something there.
Guest:And look, man, there's a lot of great sober artists out there.
Guest:I mean, sure.
Guest:But the ones that definitely like ask the hard questions a lot of time tend to be the ones who are.
Marc:I guess so.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I think so.
Marc:I think that, you know, people who push themselves will get somewhere or not.
Marc:Right.
Marc:For all the ones you're saying that did get somewhere, there's, you know, just literally, you know, dozens, hundreds.
Marc:Who did not.
Guest:Right.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:You know,
Marc:their pen just went off the page and that was that.
Marc:You are right.
Marc:So when did you decide, when did you start to learn how to do music?
Guest:Man, it was really natural for me.
Guest:It was like when I was little...
Guest:I was really into drums immediately.
Guest:Like, I really liked it.
Guest:And my dad's drummer, Richie Albright, would kind of give me lessons.
Guest:And you're on the road with them when you're a little kid?
Guest:Yeah, like, before school started, I would travel with them all the time.
Guest:And then after, you know, like, once school started, I would just go in the summers, essentially.
Guest:But I kind of...
Guest:Fell in love with music very early.
Guest:And then I think my I don't remember why I think my parents wanted me to take some kind of like extracurricular kind of class.
Guest:And I took piano at seven and I did two years of it.
Guest:And I hated it because of the the recital and the type of crap they'd make you learn.
Guest:It was like not the stuff that I wanted.
Guest:But it was good for me.
Guest:It was some kind of structure on how to.
Guest:mess with the piano and and coming from like drums and messing around drums it's a percussive instrument it was a lot of fun so i instantly kind of started fooling around making my own shit and and then you know i loved music i would buy records when i first got a cd player you know danzig one was one of the first records i bought use your illusion one and two all these records that were like so big for me and then like uh
Guest:Then it kind of took a turn where I think my biggest thing that kept me from starting a band was that I really wasn't very cool with many people in school.
Guest:And I didn't have friends that were like guitar players or like other musicians.
Guest:Right.
Guest:locked in my own little world and when i heard the um nine inch nails yeah i was like oh shit i was like and i was a computer nerd growing up like i'm definitely not the archetype for a country outlaw country like i don't hunt yeah i you know i program computer games hey you drink and smoke weed and play guitar and wear boots you're all set there you go
Guest:There you go.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:I do do those things.
Guest:They all have their reasons.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, but like once I heard that, I kind of was one guy can make all this.
Guest:I was like, oh, I can do that.
Guest:I can play piano.
Guest:I can play drums.
Guest:It gave me a place to aim.
Marc:So Reznor was like, you know, you were like, I can do this.
Marc:And did you do that early on?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah, very much so.
Guest:I'm not saying I was good at it like that, but that was where I started.
Guest:And I would be programming drums and music and making tracks and coming up with shitty lyrics and working.
Guest:And the reason it evolved into what became Stargun was because
Guest:Through that, whether or not this is the cool way to discover Bowie, the way I discovered Bowie was through Nine Inch Nails.
Guest:Well, it's generational, however you get there.
Guest:Yeah, and I became obsessed with him, and I got really into glam rock, that era, like T-Rex and Slade and all that.
Guest:And then I got into The Beatles and Pink Floyd and Psychedelics and all that.
Guest:And so by the time that I was moving to L.A.,
Guest:I had gotten so far into the glam rock thing, and I was just starting to morph into this other, more modern version of it, which is what is kind of cringey to me, because where we were right before we hit that version of Stargon was very 70s.
Guest:And once we got here, it kind of became a mishmash of glam.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know, and some riff rock and whatever.
Guest:It was kind of like just finding our way.
Marc:Well, I think it seems to me like when I look at and listen to most of the records that you've done is that you do find your way.
Marc:You know, it seems like, you know, you have this, an interesting pattern of like, you know, after Star Gun, you'll, you'll, you'll do a country record pretty much, you know, with, there are other elements where you're listening and you're like, well, that doesn't, okay.
Marc:So, you know, but it's good.
Guest:Right.
Marc:But then, and then all of a sudden you'll just be like way out there.
Yeah.
Marc:But, but, but it seems like every other record or so, you go back to country and then you're like, nah, I'm bored.
Marc:I'm going to get, I'm going to get,
Marc:I'm going to do this other thing.
Marc:I'm not sure what it is, but it's going to make sure that everyone's going to go like, what the fuck happened?
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:Some guy, I did an interview for our Pappy and Harriet show that we have coming up, and this guy goes, so you've confused country fans, and you've confused your fans many times, so what are you going to do next?
Guest:I'm like, well, thank you.
Guest:But no, but I mean, at some point for me, it became, there was a,
Guest:You know, there was a couple moments like where I'm sure it was like a what the fuck.
Guest:But then after a while of me like what the fucking with left turns, I think people started to kind of expect the next what the fuck moment to happen.
Marc:Well, my question is, so you like, you know, because you can sort of hear Reznor through, you know, a lot of the records.
Marc:I think like, you know, two or three or four of the records that you've done, like, you know, elements like I can see where you source, you know, kind of.
Marc:I'm just saying it's still there.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, on that one, that weird one, that sort of like, that's summoning.
Marc:Phoenixon or Phoenixon?
Marc:Oh, Phoenixon.
Guest:What that actually is, is that was recorded before Stargun Fraud.
Guest:That was me programming shit at my house and my dad singing on it.
Marc:So that's like from before?
Guest:That's from 97.
Guest:That's from 97.
Marc:So that's actually when he was alive.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Here I thought you were like going through shit, trying to process because of when it came out.
Marc:So that was actually during that time when, so your dad was sort of being supportive?
Guest:Very supportive.
Guest:He was really into it.
Guest:Like anything I would play him shit, I was listening to.
Guest:And I remember I played him Downward Spiral and I was like, this record is shit.
Marc:I just listened to that two days ago.
Guest:Oh, it's such a good record.
Marc:Isn't it?
Guest:Oh, man, it's still to this day in my top probably five records of all time just how profoundly influential it was, but at the same time, just what an experience.
Guest:And I wish he would still do that.
Guest:He doesn't do that.
Guest:He did the one after it was good.
Guest:Fragile is great, but it was double length.
Guest:That's my wife's favorite.
Guest:downward spiral was always mine because it was like all these found sounds and samples and dark too it's just like you know just like a lot of drum machines it felt more like like the sample drums than he'd be using them and everything i thought that was such and this the melodies were great and the songs were great so you're sitting there with old wayland
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Then he does an interview and he says in the interview, cause he was, he was a little concerned lyrically with it.
Guest:Cause I'm 15 and I'm like playing.
Guest:I'm like, you know, God is dead.
Guest:And all that.
Guest:And he, and he's like, but he, he's cool.
Guest:Cause he ain't gonna, he ain't gonna fuck with that.
Guest:He knows like, he knows what it's like to be a kid and be into what you're into.
Guest:But then he goes and does an interview and he says that Trent Reznor is a musical genius, but a lyrical idiot.
Guest:And I was like, Oh,
Guest:what have you done?
Guest:Like, I mean, this is my guy.
Guest:And you just, Waylon Jennings just went out there and said this shit, you know?
Guest:And I was like, oh no.
Guest:You're ruined.
Guest:I know, I know.
Marc:But he sat with you and worked on that record because this is an odd thing.
Marc:I couldn't, like, I didn't know anything that you're telling me.
Marc:I just looked at the dates things were released, but that was really your first efforts.
Guest:Yes, ever.
Marc:And your dad was like there for you.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:He's like, let's do a record together.
Guest:And that was the one you chose.
Guest:We made up a band together and it was like, I made all the music and he played guitar and sang a lot and I sang some of it.
Marc:And he just let you control it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Clearly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you regret that you didn't have an opportunity to do a straight up country record with your old man?
Guest:I mean, it would have been cool.
Guest:It would have been cool, you know, but I don't regret it because it was such an innocently childlike collaboration.
Marc:And he did it.
Guest:He was so into it.
Marc:It's out of his wheelhouse, but he was probably excited that you were excited about something.
Guest:Yes, about music.
Guest:He would play me records like Dire Straits, and I'd play him fucking Tool and shit.
Marc:He turned you on to Dire Straits?
Marc:Yeah, he always loved Dire Straits.
Marc:You covered a... Walk of Life, we did.
Guest:My dad did several songs by them over the years, and he used to love them.
Guest:I remember when On Every Street came out, he was playing that one a lot, and that was around the time I was playing them fucking...
Guest:White Zombie Astro Creep 2000 or something.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Metallica or something.
Marc:Well, Johnny Cash did the great cover of Hurt.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, that must have blown you away.
Marc:How close were you with him at all?
Guest:Yeah, I was.
Guest:I was, man.
Guest:He was actually my godfather.
Guest:But I got to have several kind of profound, long conversations with him where it was just me and him.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Which are pretty cool.
Guest:What do you lay on you?
Yeah.
Guest:interesting stuff i remember a conversation where you were and i don't i don't think he understood me quite at this point we had and i'm not don't mean that critically he was always very kind but remember we had this long conversation and he was asking about about computers and i at the time was very into him as i still in today yeah and the very early burgeoning internet and i was like uh
Guest:It was even before that.
Guest:It was when I modem stuff I was doing.
Guest:But he was like, you know, that that's escapism.
Guest:Like sometimes you have to get out.
Guest:You have to face reality.
Guest:And I get the message that he was saying.
Guest:I was like, man, not really.
Guest:This is where I live.
Guest:And the rest of the world is going to live here, too, in 30 years, you know.
Guest:But no, I mean, I got what he I got what he meant, though.
Guest:He had like several.
Guest:I think he's turning out to be right.
Guest:I think he's turning out to... I think he saw Facebook somewhere in there.
Marc:He had a vision.
Guest:He had a vision.
Marc:Soon everyone will think they're connected, but they'll really be isolated.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He knew.
Guest:He knew.
Guest:Yeah, man.
Guest:But like, you know, just conversations like that.
Guest:And he always was kind of like a wealth of...
Guest:no musical conversations really it was always kind of like yeah life lessons philosophical yeah and uh so your dad stayed close to him too yeah yeah they would they were really funny man because they would have moments where they didn't talk for periods of time because they were like very very similar they're like they both picked cotton they both grew up listening to the grand old opry they both had this very similar raising and i think that's why when they met they felt
Guest:a certain kinship that was different than willie's because like willie and my dad had very very different backgrounds yeah but and willie was like a jazz dude and yeah and like uh like a big songwriter for others yeah yeah did your dad do much of that not really he didn't even really write a shitload of songs towards the end of his life he did but it would be like record to record there'd be one or two three songs maybe that he wrote those early records is like i could see how there was sort of like him and johnny cash would sort of understand each other
Marc:There was a sure, you know, they felt like, you know, these guys were, you know, sort of powerful.
Marc:They lived together.
Guest:So it was like they had a period of time in Nashville where they both had apartments that were like they shared an apartment.
Guest:And then my dad's band had an apartment.
Guest:Some of Johnny's guys had an apartment on this one complex.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:And they would hide their drug use from each other.
Marc:It's funny because they're both pill guys.
Marc:It's good that they did because some of them would have been pissed off.
Guest:We're working on a Wayland movie and there's a script that we have done.
Guest:And this guy has a great scene in it where they both go into the shitter and they both go in the bathroom and...
Guest:pop their pills and flush the toilet at the same time like not to let the other person know but they're both doing the same thing you know it'd be kind of oh so they'd go way back so they would they would have spats occasionally yeah they would occasionally have spats it would usually be because like either one person like it'd be over random stuff like like Johnny would be like he's sober but then he got on some pain pills one time and my dad's mad because he's not really sober but he's like but I'm in pain and like they'd have this kind of not talk for two months or whatever
Guest:And then they make up.
Marc:So they're like a married couple.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:Like the odd couple.
Marc:That's hilarious.
Marc:So, okay.
Marc:So you do that thing with your dad.
Marc:But when you come out here, you got your heroes in place.
Marc:I just find it interesting that because of the music that you liked and because you're a musician, that you were sort of able at the beginning to do what you wanted to do.
Marc:And do it well, but then at some point, after Star Gun, I mean, you snap back, and that first country record, to put the O back in country, is a country record.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I mean, like, full on, right?
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:It had some psychedelic hard rock moments in it, but definitely, like, got to a place where...
Guest:The Star Gun thing lasted too long.
Guest:I love those guys and everything, but I moved here with one band, which was very much the more 70s glam thing.
Guest:And a couple members, we kind of splintered, and another guy came in, and we were kind of scrambling to keep the band alive, and we kept alive for a couple more...
Guest:years and we got like a little following in town and stuff but we thought we were gonna have a moment with a record label Tom Morello produced like an EP that was gonna come out and it was like we had all this stuff kind of going on but I could already tell and I didn't have the experience yet to know that it was just it was kind of an empty well that I was going to with this it just wasn't the right
Guest:Right thing for me to be excited about.
Guest:And so when we broke up the band, it was kind of like a lot of factors resulted in the breakup of the band.
Guest:And then I kind of just went back.
Guest:My dad had just died.
Guest:I'd been listening to a lot of stuff that he's influenced by.
Guest:I'd really...
Guest:took a huge dive into Hank Jr.
Guest:'s catalog, because I had liked certain records, but I hadn't really explored his catalog.
Guest:And I just was like, there was so much of that that I related to, but I didn't want to just go do a straight country record.
Guest:Like, to me, musically, country music sucked.
Guest:So to me, it was like...
Guest:like why can't a country record sound sound cool and like been the problem for for people of your ilk for years yeah man so it's like the original goal country but i don't like this new country yeah exactly what i mean even even like not being able to like kind of pull in elements of like hard rock and modern rock and and you know i'm not i don't mean like fucking system of down but you know like no
Guest:you do that on all the records there's there's definitely under there there's always something just why not you know and that's that's the music that i listen to so to me it would it would be a disservice to like just deny like it's weird you you run to a lot of guys like i've read interviews like kenny chesty people i don't even really know their music but they'll they'll say like man when i was little all i did was listen to
Guest:you know, Bob Seger.
Guest:And you're like, why doesn't your record sound like fucking Bob Seger then?
Guest:Like, shouldn't you, the shit you listen to.
Marc:But didn't they integrate that eventually?
Marc:I mean, didn't sort of like, it seemed like there was a period there where there was a shift and there was some, like, a little bit of hip hop coming in.
Marc:There was a little bit, you know, when Garth Brooks sort of amped shit up a bit, you know, and he was taking certain chances, but.
Marc:For sure.
Guest:I mean, every generation has had it.
Guest:I mean, I guess my dad kind of, you know, brought the Buddy Holly side of stuff into it.
Guest:Wasn't he a cricket?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just remembered that.
Guest:He was.
Guest:He was supposed to be on that plane, which is just crazy.
Marc:I forget that.
Marc:So he played guitar with Buddy?
Marc:Bass.
Marc:Bass, right.
Guest:And he had just never even played bass.
Guest:Buddy had let the crickets go, really, is what happened.
Guest:He was going to go.
Guest:He had...
Guest:I think he'd intended to move to New York, and then he was going to London to record.
Guest:So he put together a new band, and my dad was in that, and they did that winter dance hall tour.
Guest:And then they were going to then go.
Guest:So the plane was too full?
Guest:It was it was Buddy Holly's plane chartered for him and his band.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was like freezing outside then.
Guest:And they were going to fly ahead just to do laundry because they didn't have anywhere to do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the bus heating had broken down.
Guest:So the big bopper asked my dad if he could have his seat on the plane, if my dad would ride the bus.
Guest:My dad was like 19.
Guest:He's like, fine, no problem.
Guest:And then Richie Valens flipped a coin with Tommy Alsup for his his position on the plane.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:And got on the plane.
Guest:That's the story, huh?
Guest:That's the story.
Guest:And so then as they were going, my buddy says, I hope your old bus breaks down and you freeze to death.
Guest:My dad goes, I hope your plane crashes.
Marc:No.
Guest:He did.
Guest:And he validates that story.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It haunted him for a very long time.
Guest:Until a guy basically told him, can you bring him back?
Guest:And he said, no.
Guest:And he goes, then you couldn't have killed him.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:Right.
Marc:Oh, that's interesting.
Marc:I've never heard that before.
Marc:That's kind of powerful.
Guest:Yeah, it's pretty wild.
Guest:It really devastated him.
Guest:At first, he gave up on music, and he kind of lost all hope.
Guest:And the way it all kind of came back around, it took him a while just to get...
Guest:the feeling back because this the buddy holly was his pro like he was his protege like he was taking him to new york for the first time and he's like showing him how to play bass and teaching him all about music and my dad's just like holy shit i found this dude who's like everything to me and then it's like bam gone you know so young right there's only what there's probably only about 40 songs right that buddy holly's yeah maybe maybe maybe so many great like i don't you know it's sort of incomprehensible
Marc:It is.
Marc:Some of that Buddy Holly stuff.
Guest:Apparently, he was such a maverick with that.
Guest:The way that his approach to everything was.
Guest:He was a straight hillbilly as a guy.
Guest:Here, out of nowhere, my dad's sitting there working on a radio station and the way he met him.
Guest:And he's just, all of a sudden, he's this dude who's got these glasses and he's got these moves and it's like pop, but it's like rock.
Guest:One thing he told my dad, he's like, don't tell anybody your country or that you're rock, just tell them you're pop because you got room to wiggle then.
Guest:You can go either way with it.
Guest:And he had all these kind of Buddy Holly-isms that he would tell my dad.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And like, you know, always leave them wanting more.
Guest:Don't play too long.
Guest:Like, you know, all this kind of stuff.
Guest:But I mean, for someone to be that profound and different at that time without any kind of media to craft your thing after, I mean, it's like literally everyone was pretty isolated.
Guest:Like the radio...
Marc:And there's a lot of variety to the songs, too, man.
Marc:My dad loved them.
Marc:So we got piped in that collection.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When I was a kid in the A-track in the car, it was just like all Buddy Holly music.
Guest:It's so cool, man.
Guest:It's such good.
Guest:The guitar parts and stuff, even to this day, all the Sonny Curtis stuff.
Guest:You're like, what are you doing?
Marc:How's he doing that?
Marc:It's so crazy.
Marc:Even the simple rhythms are tricky.
Marc:Yeah, I forgot.
Marc:I knew that your dad was part.
Marc:I'm glad that came up.
Marc:Okay, so you're frustrated with where country's at.
Marc:You tap into Hank Jr., and you do that first record, and you mix it up a little bit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And how does that change your life?
Guest:Man, you know, previous to it coming out, it really was.
Guest:I mean, we were off the radar, except for in this town.
Guest:In L.A.
Guest:Yeah, so like I did.
Marc:And at that time, it's you, and who were the other bands?
Guest:It was, I put together a band.
Guest:Oh, you mean.
Marc:Yeah, who was around with Star Gunn?
Guest:Oh, I'm like, well.
Guest:During that time, there were bands, I can barely even remember half of them, but we rehearsed in that rehearsal hall on Hollywood and Vine, where Lincoln Park had just broken out of that rehearsal hall, and Maroon 5 and these kind of bands like that.
Guest:At the time, Audioslave, Tom had been an early on supporter of the band, and that was blowing up.
Guest:A lot of big bands, but there was no scene of young bands.
Guest:Anymore, it was already done.
Guest:No, then there was a kind of country thing that was happening.
Guest:They had the King King.
Guest:They had this thing called Westbound Down they would do.
Guest:And there was like Icy Hawks in L.A.
Guest:And there was like these down at the Molly Malone's.
Guest:They had these Grand Parson nights.
Guest:So there was like kind of a lot of that stuff happening in L.A.
Guest:OK, yeah, which was kind of cool.
Guest:And I had just gone through.
Guest:At the same time, like a Graham phase.
Guest:I had not done that discovery yet, so I'd gone through all his records.
Guest:When you were out here, before Hank Jr.
Guest:Before the Hank Jr.
Guest:period.
Guest:Yeah, I'd gone through that.
Marc:And what would you say about Graham, having the heads you have and coming for you come from?
Marc:What made him so unique?
Guest:man he was so unique because he was literally a like a rich kid from florida who was like i want to do country and came to la for whatever reason and connect with the birds and all that like his story is so unique because it did it bypassed nashville altogether it had so many elements uh that that later in you know the dead and like
Guest:of course, like Chris Hillman and the birds and the stones, like all the tie-ins of country into rock and roll.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The Eagles.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, well, there was a dude before Graham named Steve young that came here and he was kind of the first, he came from Alabama.
Guest:He wrote like seven bridges road that the Eagles did.
Guest:He wrote lonesome on your mean that my dad did.
Guest:He did Montgomery in the rain.
Guest:Hank jr.
Guest:Did these great songs.
Guest:Um, he came here first before Graham and he kind of was the first dude who started like, uh,
Guest:seeding Los Angeles and Hollywood with a lot of this, because he's from Montgomery, so it was a lot of this Hank Williams seeds and things, and he was kind of rolling around.
Marc:I think I have his record.
Guest:He's great.
Guest:It's a great record.
Guest:He's great.
Guest:He has got tons of great records that are out there, and I got to be friends with him before he died, and he sent me his entire catalog.
Guest:Sometime I got to...
Guest:I have, like, a hard drive, and if you're into them, I'll give you the whole thing.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, dump it on there.
Guest:It's pretty cool.
Guest:So that's so... Okay, so that's... And then Graham was kind of, like, the next guy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So it was like... But Steve kind of sowed some seeds that kind of led to, like, a lot of the Glenn Campbell and the Wrecking Crew shit that was happening with, like, Tanya Tucker and all that.
Guest:Like, it all kind of entered in, you know, of course, Merle and Buck and all that kind of coming down.
Guest:But Graham was, like, really unique because he was a rock dude...
Guest:who was obsessed with country, and he was, at the end of the day, in a weird way, he probably would be flipping in his grave, but he was still kind of like this rock and roll dude to the end, who just sang country all the time.
Marc:And that was such a... But the music, you listen to the music, this is what I never can understand, because even your new record, Shooter, with Dave Cobb, because he does some Sturgill stuff, he's a guy.
Marc:And he did the first five of mine, too.
Marc:But he's clearly evolved as a producer into, like, there's some sort of reverence for that classic country production, right?
Marc:Yes, for sure.
Marc:That goes way back to, like, 60s and 70s, right?
Guest:Yes, for sure.
Guest:That's the best era of that and rock in a lot of ways.
Marc:But the thing that always strikes me is that, you know, when you listen to these guys that were sort of pivotal in the new country back then, like Graham and the birds and stuff, it's like, it just sounds like country to me.
Marc:So I can't like the nuance, you know, the songwriting I get, but it's not like they're swinging.
Marc:They're not like making the beat any different.
Marc:They still swing a lot of them.
Marc:And it's not sort of like, wow, this is really different.
Marc:That's why I never understood the struggle between what maybe it's because I don't live in it.
Marc:This idea that this is mainstream country and this is Graham Parsons.
Marc:Like, why the fuck couldn't Graham Parsons play with Buck Owens?
Marc:It could have happened.
Guest:Absolutely could have happened.
Guest:I don't know about their struggle then.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because, like, it was a little, quite a bit different.
Guest:But I think that, I mean, nowadays the struggle between mainstream and all that is like, it's a weird, it's almost two different things.
Guest:I don't even, like, pay attention to really mainstream country.
Guest:I don't really know anyone who does.
Guest:And I couldn't really name anything else.
Guest:that's on the radio i've i could kind of identify some of these guys but dude it is a operation and these people walk in with nothing except for a voice and they are from the minute they enter that place to the minute they get out it's a machine it is a machine you know it's like graham parsons
Marc:uh you know who knows about buck buck owens because we're talking about california california is pretty unique but that same machine has been in place in nashville right and it's been perfected because like the the the the the sort of importance of the songwriter in nashville right like that like there was a the everyone would gravitate like you know that's not like that in new york and not really in la i don't think but literally nashville's like this is where songwriters come to try to deliver the goods
Guest:To the voices.
Guest:You had like Shel Silverstein and people like that back then.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But it seems like the model was always like, we got a front man.
Marc:Let's fill his mouth with something.
Marc:It's true.
Marc:So they must just have perfected the machine.
Marc:They must have just like- They have.
Guest:Stacks of songs.
Guest:It's crazy how those sessions work.
Guest:I've never done it myself, but I have lots of friends that do it, and they literally have like 10... Do you know Neil Casale?
Guest:No.
Guest:He plays guitar.
Guest:He played in the Ryan Adams and the Cardinals, but now he plays with Chris Robinson, brother.
Guest:Anyway, great player, but he says, I got a co on that.
Guest:Someone will say, I got a co on that, for a little co-write.
Guest:And all these sessions in which they'll all day just write...
Guest:like whatever like let's write a song about a hammer and a dice you know and they'll write that and then right and then they'll like somehow and there's just a system there's like basically there must be a template that's about five or six songs a couple of slow country that's right right and then there's about three or four different grooves of the fast country right and they always mimic what's a hit because that's what's a hit that's right slow evolution so it all sounds the same ish
Guest:Right.
Guest:And guys like Graham were not thinking of that at the time.
Guest:And, you know, and the greats of all this are not thinking about it.
Guest:No, of course not.
Guest:In any genre, though, I mean, you look at 80s hair metal and you look at, like, what became the processing plant of Sunset Boulevard, where it would just be, like, band after band after band after band that sounded just like Van Halen or just like Def Leppard.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Until you get, like, a GNR who's, like, irreverent about it.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Right.
Marc:I guess the big switch was that you really... That became your center.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Guest:To some degree.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah, you know, that's a good way of putting it.
Guest:The thing about that was that we had the success from this one song, Fourth of July, on that record.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I thought...
Guest:We had already recorded our second record, and our second record was pushing the boundaries.
Guest:It was more rock.
Guest:It was more psychedelic.
Marc:Well, no, I hear that.
Marc:So that's so weird, because I'm looking at these releases, and I'm listening to them in sequence, because Electric Rodeo definitely had more elements of rock in it.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And I was like, how did he go?
Guest:I thought it was an evolution.
Guest:To me, it was like the first one had some elements of that, but it was very segregated.
Guest:So it was supposed to be Electric Rodeo first?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:That was first.
Guest:But it was like the rock and the country elements were a bit separated on that record.
Guest:And I thought with Electric Rodeo, I said, here, we're going to blend it all into one sound.
Guest:But we were immediately rejected for that record.
Guest:And that began my lesson about it.
Marc:Oh, because you all of a sudden just birthed all these new country fans.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then all of a sudden, yeah.
Guest:And it was still, in my opinion, it came out as a country record.
Guest:It was always a country record.
Guest:It's still country no matter what to some degree.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was just like we wanted to push the boundary a little further on the sound and see.
Guest:Because, you know, why does it have to all be like Leonard Skinner knockoffs?
Guest:Why can't you be like pulling from Zappa in a country record or whatever?
Marc:You can't answer that question?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because there's the guys who are used to the six songs going...
Guest:What's he doing to my head?
Guest:What's he doing to my head?
Guest:We're trying to expand your head, man.
Guest:We're trying to get you to wake up and have some fucking taste.
Guest:Do they comment?
Marc:Did people come up to you and go, what are you doing?
Guest:Not that one.
Guest:I'll tell you the one where they got me was the black ribbons.
Marc:That was the concept record?
Marc:Yeah, it was Stephen King.
Guest:The Stephen King record?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:That was when I started realizing- That was where they had it.
Marc:That was where they're like, look, we liked a couple songs on those shitty records, but what the fuck is this?
Guest:That's exactly what happened.
Guest:And then YouTube, I remember YouTube comment that said, you are officially banned from Texas.
Guest:Texas?
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:You know, I mean, we should say I always always always in trouble.
Marc:There's I'd love Texas.
Marc:There's some good parts of Texas.
Marc:Oh, I love Texas.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So that was it.
Marc:But Black Ribbon was it.
Guest:Yeah, that was that was the that was the actual quote on YouTube.
Guest:But yeah, I mean, that was the one where it first had that reaction.
Guest:But now, like in retrospect, that record is the one that's probably given me the most back.
Guest:And it has been.
Guest:The one that has, in my opinion, lasted the longest with the fans.
Guest:People really woke up to the record, but it took them a minute because they weren't ready for it.
Guest:It's a story.
Guest:That was the exciting part about it.
Guest:It's exciting to go do something and say, this is going to be weird.
Guest:It's one thing to have a crazy idea, but not be able to carry it out.
Guest:I felt like me and Dave Cobb were able to carry that record out.
Guest:When we did that, I was like, okay, here's something I'm fucking proud of.
Guest:We really fucking did something weird here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and I knew that the reaction would be would be crazy.
Guest:But at the same time, like I knew that over it's a long game.
Guest:I'm not in it.
Guest:I'm not in it for a short thing.
Marc:Well, and also, you know, as a creative person, as an artist, if you don't take chances, then, you know, you're just going to be a shell of yourself.
Marc:You just end up, you know, wandering around, getting on stage and going through the motions.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's I don't want to do that.
Guest:I would rather quit.
Marc:but the concept record it's interesting because they're you know obviously there's been concept records before and you know and willie did that one uh spirit or redhead a stranger oh that one too yeah i mean which is sort of a story it's fantastic it is you know but i don't know that that was the most successful record for him outside of the hit no i don't think outside from yeah but it's often regarded as the best country album of all time
Guest:Is it?
Guest:Yeah, it's often the number one on the list of all best country records.
Guest:The time of the preacher.
Guest:Yeah, I love that.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:I love that, man.
Guest:And then, you know, Phases and Stages.
Guest:A bunch of his records were concept records.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It was like... So what led to the partnership with Stephen King?
Marc:I mean, how...
Guest:Well, I dreamed up this record and I had this DJ part in it.
Guest:And at first I was going to reach out to Art Bell and I did reach out to Art Bell about it.
Guest:And then I second guessed the decision because I thought, man, people are going to think this is Art Bell.
Guest:I loved Art Bell growing up.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And I wanted somebody who was a little different.
Guest:You know, people didn't know.
Guest:And his voice.
Guest:And there was a, that's funny.
Guest:I have that book about apocalypse culture too.
Guest:But anyway.
Marc:It's a great book.
Marc:The first one's better.
Marc:I don't have the first one.
Marc:Well, I mean, it's a lot of the same stuff, but they added some stuff, but they also took out a couple.
Guest:The second one.
Guest:I'm going to have to go to that.
Marc:It's hard to find that first one.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:Anyway, so where that happened was, I mean, I've been a Stephen King fan since I was really young.
Guest:And he wrote about me first in his EW column he used to do in the back of EW about his favorite country songs or something.
Guest:And Fourth of July was on there.
Guest:Oh, that's nice.
Guest:And then he wrote my name.
Marc:It's a good feeling, isn't it?
Marc:When you have reverence for somebody and all of a sudden you realize, hey, they know my shit.
Guest:Crazy.
Guest:It's crazy when that happens, especially when they turn out to be such amazing people.
Guest:Manson was like that when we became friends.
Marc:I talked to him.
Marc:He was a little loopy.
Marc:I heard him.
Marc:He had his little Fiji bottle.
Marc:Love it.
Guest:Um, but, uh, so Stephen King, then he wrote my name in a book.
Guest:It was in, uh, Lisey's story.
Guest:Just really quickly.
Guest:And he, it was, my name was right next to fucking Big and Rich too.
Guest:I was like, Jesus Christ.
Guest:But anyway, um, so he wrote, so I was like, okay, the dude, I'm on his radar.
Guest:So I like wrote, I was doing it.
Guest:I'm going to do an interview for some record I was doing for, with EW and
Guest:And I said, I'll do it.
Guest:But will you pass this letter to Stephen King?
Guest:Cause I tried to reach him and I couldn't find any way to reach him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I wrote an email and that afternoon he got back to me and he was like, he's like, I'm too busy to do this, but if you hound me, maybe it'll get done.
Guest:And like, so I just sent him the ideas that went along.
Guest:And then like one day we had a lot of emails back and forth.
Guest:I never met him.
Guest:I've never talked to him on the phone.
Guest:And one day it just showed up in my house done.
Guest:And I was like, holy shit.
Guest:Yeah, he did it.
Guest:He did it.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:So we put it in there and and and we've kind of remained friends like but only via email and stuff.
Guest:But now I'm working on a new project that he's involved in.
Guest:So maybe I'll get to me.
Marc:That's wild.
Marc:And the album is I imagine some of the fans are sort of like it is a sort of a political record.
Guest:It is.
Guest:In a way, I was not aiming to make a political record.
Guest:To me, it was more of like a... I had become really into a lot of these writers and conspiracy writers and these kind of theories.
Guest:I had heard that David Icke dude on...
Guest:oh boy on coast to coast am reptiles thing sure yeah i was like wow this guy's out there yeah and i was like but just conceptually just this world of insanity yeah i started looking up all you know manly p hall and mason people and sure all these people and reading about go ahead and say it the jews
Guest:jesus christ guy i know what you're saying no no but like i just kind of was like reading all this shit and i was the conspiracy world was just fascinating sure i know i was there too i've been there yeah i know what you're saying and so like uh i uh you know i when i was doing the record unfortunately now it's a dominant cultural dialogue for people who want to erase the truth but it went early on it was sort of interesting
Guest:Yeah, well, I mean, it was very interesting.
Guest:It also seems like during that time, I mean, it was, God, it's 2008, so it was like the end of the George Bush thing was when we were doing the record.
Guest:And when Obama happened, like for me, I've never taken a political stance, and I never will, because I think there's so many...
Marc:It's a little rough, man.
Marc:It was weird.
Marc:I had this weird thing where I was listening to NPR and they were interviewing Loretta Lynn, who was just sort of like, Trump's going to save us.
Marc:And I'm like, you don't have to talk about it.
Guest:I want to love you.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:But when that Bush thing was happening, it was insanity.
Guest:And then the housing crisis happened.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then like Obama's like one and it's like all going to happen.
Guest:And it was all so weird.
Guest:Everything was so fucking weird and negative.
Guest:And there was, there was all this like kind of where you were living.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, no, from, I mean, what am I supposed to say?
Guest:Like I was like overcome with hope.
Guest:Like, no, I was like, there was nothing.
Guest:Everything, everything seemed insane.
Guest:Like when the housing crisis hit, especially.
Marc:No, absolutely.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Everybody was just like, where's Bush?
Marc:Where'd he go?
Marc:You know, on the way out, those guys just sort of like, and we're taking all the money.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That's exactly what happened.
Guest:And so it was like, I didn't know where we were.
Guest:And so I just kind of made up this concept of this fictional band that was like, they were going to shut off the airwaves and there wasn't going to be a voice anymore.
Guest:And it was like this fictional band was kind of the fucky band for this guy to play on his last night end.
Marc:The DJ that he created.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think it's ballsy, man, because like the way you talk about it, it was a genuine reaction to the confusion and fear and anger or whatever you were feeling.
Guest:There's so much fear mongering going on.
Marc:And you're trying to reach.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And also trying to reach some sort of, you know, trying to process it.
Marc:So you process it with this weird concept record, which Dave Cobb produced as well.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's interesting your history with him because, like, your family man's a country record.
Marc:You deal with themes.
Marc:I mean, you have a family.
Marc:You've been through a heartbreak.
Marc:You've been through kind of a divorce.
Marc:You've got a couple of kids.
Marc:I mean, like, you know, that's the other thing about looking at country where it's sort of like, I know these stories.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Do these guys live these stories?
Marc:Are they just like, you know, what are we going to write about today?
Marc:You know, like, I'm sad.
Marc:But there was a that that it seemed like some of the stuff on that record was you trying to reckon with the fact that you're this guy that has this responsibility and you try to do the best you can, but you're not necessarily making the grade.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And then the other life is kind of when it all goes, you know, it goes bad, goes bad.
Guest:And then, you know, figuring out.
Guest:I mean, it's yeah, it's very much traceable journey of reality.
Marc:But do you get along with her?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I have to.
Marc:You've got two kids.
Guest:Yeah, we do great.
Guest:What's her name again?
Guest:Dre.
Guest:Dre DiMatteo.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, the actress.
Marc:She's great.
Guest:Yeah, she... Like, you know, we... They go to school with parents who fucking hate each other that are either married or not married anymore.
Guest:Oh, it's the worst.
Guest:So it's like we're able to definitely get through it.
Guest:And her dude is one of my favorite... Dre's dude, Michael Devin, who's in...
Guest:White Snake.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I've used him on some records that I produced and stuff.
Guest:We I love that guy.
Guest:And like, you know, Misty, my wife, we all get along really well.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:So it's like it's a fucking lucky situation for the kids.
Guest:You know, they get to see like people that are actually happy.
Marc:And then you can do it like, you know, it's a really a matter of acceptance and getting over whoever feels fucked off, you know, moving through that.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:That's a good way of putting it.
Guest:It's not even moving beyond it or around.
Marc:It's through it.
Marc:No matter what, as you get older, you realize that everything that you thought was never going to be different.
Marc:Right.
Guest:it doesn't fucking matter anymore in some ways you're like oh god yeah oh dude totally i i mean because when you're you know you're 20 something years old it's like everything has such profound meaning and impact and everything is so big and how do i feel today you know and it's like and i'm fucking 40 now and i'm like god damn leave me alone you know i'm just like want everyone to leave me alone yeah yeah yeah i'm just trying to price is right man yeah right i don't give a fuck yeah
Marc:I finally reached the freedom to not give a fuck about a lot of stuff, and I just want to sit here and do this.
Guest:Yeah, that's right, man.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:But that record was a very odd record.
Marc:How do you say it?
Marc:How come I can't pronounce it?
Marc:Countach?
Marc:I would never have said that right.
Marc:It's like a Lamborghini Countach.
Marc:Okay, fine.
Marc:Because Georgia is Italian.
Marc:Giorgio Maroder.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:And he was like, I learned this stuff, you know, yesterday.
Guest:Oh, no, dude, Giorgio Maroder, you know who he is.
Guest:No, I know his songs, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But what I'm trying to figure out is like, what is Shooter Jennings sitting there thinking like, you know, it's time for me to do an homage to
Marc:Okay.
Guest:The George record.
Guest:All right, I'll tell you how this kind of started.
Guest:Years before, a guy had asked me to write some songs for George Jones' final record.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I wrote these two songs, sent them to the dude.
Guest:He's like, it's great.
Guest:Let's see what the possum says.
Guest:Well, that dude turned out to be completely full of shit.
Guest:He wasn't doing a record on George Jones, and I had just written two songs and sent him this dude.
Marc:So I was like- Was those the ones that ended up on the tribute?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I said, I'm going to put those two songs-
Guest:And at the time, I had gone down this rabbit hole of Giorgio Moroder, and it kind of started with that Daft Punk record, Random Access Memories.
Guest:But I just didn't realize how much of the music that I grew up in that this one guy was responsible for.
Guest:I just kind of assumed it was the sound of the 80s.
Guest:It was the thing.
Guest:So when I kind of went down that rabbit hole and started listening to all these solo records he has, I just became kind of obsessed with it.
Guest:And this company was really into the idea.
Guest:I was going to put out those two George Jones songs and maybe do a couple others.
Guest:They were really into the idea of me doing it.
Guest:I was very defiant about just doing a George Jones thing.
Guest:So my idea was I'm going to do George and Giorgio.
Guest:And it was going to be these kind of two pieces, which is what I ended up doing.
Guest:And I was like, but I like for the George one, I used a lot of the equipment that Giorgio used on his records.
Guest:And for the Giorgio one, I use like live.
Guest:fiddle and instruments that George used and kind of mixed the whole thing up.
Marc:Tell people who Giorgio is.
Guest:What were the songs?
Guest:Everyone knows that he defined disco by producing all that stuff, but he was really the first person to sync mood synthesizers with a click and get them all talking.
Guest:Of course, he did The NeverEnding Story, and he did the Top Gun theme song.
Guest:Lots of movies and TV shows.
Guest:I was really infatuated with the lyrics and the musical, especially the musical arrangements.
Guest:And then, like, Hunter S. Thompson always said that when he was younger, he would retype Ernest Hemingway novels.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And doing this Giorgio record was kind of like that, because I became, like, intimately aware of these really weird arrangements.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like...
Guest:never-ending story like that song just a kid's theme song from a movie that i saw when i was a kid or whatever but it's really weird and intricate and the chord changes and the the rhythms and yeah but i found some early shit of his where it was not electronic at all it was kind of country and weird like that song isn't very far from what his arrangement was which is was really strange i i so it was like he had a really
Guest:peculiar kind of like journey musically that it just the more I looked the more and more I loved it and the more and more I wanted to do you know carry this record out and to me like it was one of those kind of records where like I
Guest:A lot of people were like, what the fuck?
Guest:But a lot of people ended up really loving it.
Guest:In the press, it was received really well.
Guest:So it's like, you know, it kind of opened a lot of doors.
Guest:That record and Black Ribbons have opened more doors for me to cool collaborations and cool friendships, as well as like...
Guest:people coming out of the woodwork that would never have taken note of my music or be like say like a good example is like kurt sutter from sons of anarchy became like a really cool collaborator for me because he liked black ribbons and he started putting songs from it in the show oh that's great that's how i met manson because he heard those and liked them wow you know and so all these kind of
Guest:weird little avenues would happen and and contosh has kind of brought a lot of a lot of people that way and so it seems like the more outlandish and kind of daring things that i do the more they kind of create these trees of like new stuff for me to get into and also like you know different types of creative people that's right that's right then this new record which you just call shooter yeah it's it's like it's a great country record
Marc:But I mean, it's like the most country record you've done.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:It's the only one where I feel like I didn't have some ax to grind with like, I'm, you know, musically like trying to prove I still had this other elements.
Guest:I really went in and was like.
Marc:And like, let me ask you about Dave Cobb because like, you know, he did Wheeler Walker.
Marc:He does Sturgill, who I've talked to.
Marc:Who's that other guy?
Marc:Who's that guy that Sturgill played with on SNL?
Marc:Chris Stapleton.
Marc:chris stapleton he's great right great great but so like cob it seems to me that at one time you know the collaboration you know he could sort of do what you wanted him to do like you know he understood what you want then he'd do it but now it seems that cob has a very defined sound for himself he does he does but i don't feel like that with like he and i still have the exact same relationship that we did before you just happen to want to do a
Guest:our conversation our phone conversation was let's cut a hang junior record like we were like let's go full country the whole way and not even you know even though there's stuff on there that's that kind of gets out there from country but it's like our intention was to to cut it just a through and through enjoyable not heavy yeah i i loved it you know country thank you man well we yeah we set out to do that and we had just done the brandy record which
Guest:It was pretty eclectic and had a lot of different angles, and we were both working really heavily on the arrangements and everything.
Guest:Which one's that?
Guest:It's called By the Way I Forgive You.
Guest:She just put out this year.
Guest:And you were working?
Guest:You produced it?
Guest:Me and Dave co-produced it.
Guest:Oh, that's great.
Guest:So that's what kind of got us working together again, and that was her bringing it.
Guest:us in together she wrote she wrote me she goes i want you to work on my new record and then like two days later she goes like do you know dave cobb and i was like yeah i know dave you've done a couple records man you know how old is he your age he's uh about three years older than me so now like what is the nature of your your fan base i mean are they do you get people that liked your dad do you get real country people i mean totally i mean it's across the board and it has changed over the years because
Guest:There was a big gap between my dad and myself as far as the fans went.
Guest:There'd either be fans that were young people who liked my music, or there'd be older people who liked my dad's music.
Guest:But now that all has kind of mixed, and it's kind of a mixed bag.
Guest:I've been on the road with my band for about two years.
Guest:Before that, I did three years with my dad's old band.
Guest:There was a period of time in which I'd...
Guest:done the family man the other life that was a new york city band that i'd put together and it was getting to where like it was too expensive to tour i wasn't making enough in the in the uh guarantees to afford like a bus and it was started it was kind of a struggle at this one point it's probably uh 2000 and
Guest:mid 2012 or something.
Guest:And, uh, the other life hadn't even come out yet.
Guest:And I was already financially in this position.
Guest:It was a little shaky.
Guest:And my old manager, the guy who came in, John Hensley, I was talking about, he had this idea.
Guest:I played this one show with the way more's outlaws, which is really my dad's old man.
Guest:And I played this one show and he's like, dude, you should take this on the road.
Guest:Cause they have a vehicle.
Guest:They travel in me, you and a merch person, which is his girlfriend at the time.
Guest:We'll just drive everywhere they go.
Guest:You don't have to sever contracts.
Guest:You get paid your bit.
Guest:Your only expense is two hotel rooms and a car.
Guest:And we did that for like three years and it saved me.
Guest:And it like got everything back up.
Guest:It got my guarantees back up because the shows were doing well with them.
Guest:And I was able to get back in a place to get on my feet, you know.
Guest:But at the same time, to answer your question, you were kind
Guest:I was servicing.
Guest:They were playing mostly my stuff.
Guest:You were broke or what?
Guest:I wasn't broke.
Guest:I didn't have to move out of my house, but it was around the time that I went through the split ups and getting on my feet.
Guest:At the same time, it was just that I had gone through a couple bad decisions with managers and with booking agents, and they'd gotten to where I was making such a low amount per show.
Guest:Right.
Guest:that it was like a vacuum.
Guest:The show would be low, the turnout would be low, then it would get lower, and then I'm trying to maintain a full band and a bus and all this.
Guest:So it kind of gave me a point to start in which there was a story behind the package.
Guest:It was different because it was my dad's old band, and they would come out and do a whole set of Wayland shit, and then I would come out and they'd do my stuff, and I'd do some Wayland songs.
Guest:But it would allow me to kind of duck out of big cities, do casinos, do gigs in small towns and sell out and do things.
Guest:And it built my guarantee up.
Guest:It built their guarantee up.
Guest:It made it where we made money and we were able to kind of save and keep the label going.
Guest:And I was able to do it again where we could go on the road and get a bus and build that up.
Guest:And now the engine is rolling great and we're out on the road nonstop and we're...
Guest:Got the new record and everything.
Guest:So it kind of was like, my point there was that there was a point in time, I think, when I was younger, when I was resentful of the Waylon factor, even though I was happy about it.
Guest:I was happy that people would come, but it was very hard to differentiate.
Guest:Like, just some guy on the street who makes a career.
Guest:And has songs.
Guest:He knows that the people are showing up at his show are there because they like his music.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:There's no other reason.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But for me, there was like the Waylon reason.
Guest:So it's hard to know.
Guest:It's hard to trust your fans.
Guest:Like, why are you here?
Marc:But after a certain point, did you just accept it and embrace it?
Guest:I think that doing the tour at the Waymore, I mean, to some degree, yes.
Guest:And I also ran off a bunch of them with Black Ribbon.
Guest:So that was kind of a good thing in a way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The wrong folks.
Guest:I shouldn't say the wrong, but you know what I'm saying.
Guest:The people.
Guest:People who were just looking for me to be Waylon Jr.
Guest:definitely were like, okay, I'm going to step out of here for a while.
Guest:They're coming back with this record.
Guest:They're coming back.
Guest:They came back even afterwards.
Guest:But then doing the Waymoors tour, it was really in a way like saying, look, even though they're playing my shit, I was giving back to that crew too.
Guest:And I think that people felt it kind of healed some things with that.
Guest:And it became an integration of
Guest:the people, instead of there just being the Wayland people and the shooter people, they were now the same group.
Guest:So now they're all willing to kind of follow me and they know I'm not just throwing my middle finger up in my dad's legacy in their opinion.
Guest:That kind of stuff.
Guest:So it kind of solved a lot of things in a weird way.
Guest:And it was great to be on the road with my dad's old drummer, Richie, who was the fucking shit and all those guys.
Guest:It was so cool to have a band with them for three years.
Guest:Oh yeah, I bet.
Guest:Kind of being that was a very weird thing.
Marc:Well, it's funny because like, because your dad was so supportive and, and he was who he was, but, but he was also, you guys had a great relationship, but the only way you really could rebel because he was a decent guy was to, you know, to do it musically.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like, you know, you, you know, in order for you to sort of define yourself, you had to, you know, not, not say fuck you dad, but say like, well, I'm, I can, I'm going to do this other thing.
Guest:Yeah, which is what L.A.
Guest:did.
Guest:I was completely oblivious to it.
Guest:By the time that first record came out, I had not even been thinking about really.
Guest:I mean, he died, and I'm thinking about him that way.
Guest:But, I mean, it's like it didn't feel like I was being defiant.
Guest:I felt like I was just, oh, I think I might have found my way.
Guest:I've been here in L.A.
Guest:long enough, and I think I might have figured out my sound.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:So that's what it kind of felt like.
Guest:But then once it came out, I think we kind of were touching on this before, but once that came out, that's when people started being like, you're not as good as your dad.
Guest:He'd be rolling over his grave.
Guest:And you're just like, okay, fuck you people.
Guest:Fuck all of you.
Marc:Find me in LA.
Marc:I dare you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But this one is like, it's a, it's a nice testament to like, I think who you are in terms of accepting, you know, that this, it's clearly something you love.
Marc:I mean, the country music.
Marc:Yeah, absolutely.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And, uh, you know, and, and it's also just, uh, you know, it's sort of, uh, you know, it feels like you've worked through a lot of shit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's, I don't, I don't, I don't feel, I feel that there will be another weird record in your future.
Marc:Definitely.
Guest:I got, I got to keep making left turns until I go in a circle, you know?
Marc:Now, what do you think about your father's influence in general?
Marc:Because I know there was, very specifically, people said Sturgill sounded like your old man.
Guest:Yeah, I used to say that before, because I introduced him and David Cobb, and I like- You introduced Sturgill Simpson?
Guest:Yeah, and Sturgill, a guy named Blake Judd, introduced me to Sturgill's music.
Guest:He had a band called Sunday Valley before.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:and uh and it was like a kind of hard rock band a lot of ways but it was kind of like star gun was i i understand like he he doesn't allow that shit online even though i think that sunday valley had some great stuff and now he's doing some shit like you in a in a sense like he'll rip out that guitar and you're like that's not country yeah yeah totally he wins the country grammy for his least country record it's like
Guest:Which is why I love why he's mixing it up.
Guest:But when I first heard him, there were moments where I was like, man, it really sounds like early.
Guest:It's almost like in the 70s, this is a really weird way of putting it, but this is the best way I can describe it, was in the 70s when my dad would do harmonies on his own vocals.
Guest:He would sing a little higher.
Guest:Sturgill sounded just like that to me.
Guest:It was like there was a thing where I was like, wow, that's really cool.
Guest:And a really cool voice.
Guest:And it was awesome to watch him kind of go through these different phases as well.
Guest:And he does the same kind of thing.
Guest:And when he went left and he did the experimental record, I was like, I'm going real country then.
Guest:He did that.
Guest:I'm going all the way over here.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Let's see what happens next.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But you guys get along.
Guest:Your move.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I love Sturgill.
Guest:We hang out a lot.
Guest:He came through town for like a day.
Guest:We went to El Compadre and hung out, and he's a great dude.
Marc:Good, man.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, it's a great record.
Marc:It was certainly... I'm glad we finally got to meet and talk.
Marc:It was great to hang out, man.
Guest:Yeah, man.
Guest:Thank you for having me.
Guest:I definitely... I love the podcast, so it was...
Guest:It's cool to be in here and finally be on it.
Guest:And then I got to thank Jeff Tate, especially because he was originally trying to hook us up.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I'm sorry I dropped the ball on that because I went through my emails and I'm like, oh, that was like two years ago.
Marc:Dude, it's okay.
Marc:It's all right, man.
Guest:We did it, man.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:I had something to promote this time.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It worked out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Thanks, man.
Guest:Of course, man.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:All right, that was Shooter Jennings.
Marc:Rob Riggle before him.
Marc:Fun times, fun talks.
Marc:I hope nothing happened in between me recording this and you hearing it that needed to be addressed or that left it impossible for anyone to hear this.
Marc:I'm okay.
Marc:You okay?
Marc:I'm all right.
Marc:I'm going to have some pistachios.
Marc:Boomer lives!
you