Episode 940 - Chris O'Dowd
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucksters?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast WTF.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:How's it going?
Marc:Are you okay?
Marc:You know, it's interesting.
Marc:I've been speaking to people specifically about
Marc:About like when I greet you, whether you're running or you're at the gym or you're painting or you're in trouble or I'm just kind of going through a list in my head of people.
Marc:I've been doing that for a long time.
Marc:And it's odd because.
Marc:A lot of people tell me that I get emails and they're sort of like, I'm painting, by the way.
Marc:Well, I got an email from a guy.
Marc:The thing is, I just kind of scattershot that.
Marc:I kind of connect in and think about it.
Marc:I've been doing that since I was on radio, but I was a little more specific.
Marc:There was a long list of different types of people that I would say hi to.
Marc:But in terms of actually doing one side of a conversation, which this always is, and your relationship with me is specific, it's personal, and it's yours.
Marc:But sometimes when I reach out and just that kind of general greeting way and ask what's up, I don't know how it lands.
Marc:But I got like I said, I got one able to one email that said I was painting.
Marc:Thank you for saying hello and checking in.
Marc:But this is what makes it worthwhile.
Marc:Without even knowing it.
Marc:This is also talking about this podcast in general or however I resonate with people.
Marc:A lot of people connect with me in whatever way they're going to connect with me.
Marc:Some people get mad at me.
Marc:Some people find a tremendous amount of comfort in me.
Marc:What's important is I got an email from a guy.
Marc:This is from the other day on Monday when I was speaking specifically about drugs and about recovery and about people.
Marc:I was talking directly to people.
Marc:who may be in that situation.
Marc:And I'm just winging it, folks.
Marc:This is just improvised stuff I do here at the beginning of the show.
Marc:But this email, subject line intro, really hit me.
Marc:You're right, Mark.
Marc:It doesn't get any better.
Marc:It's the same shit.
Marc:Up all night, work all day, repeat, doesn't age well.
Marc:6 a.m.
Marc:comes quick.
Marc:I know one day at a time because that's all one really can do.
Marc:Thanks for the truth.
Marc:I needed to hear it from someone who didn't know me.
Marc:Now, I don't know what that guy's exact life is, but if I can deliver a message to get people out of that cycle, that fucking addiction cycle, especially if it's one that's damaging your life, I'm happy to do it because, I don't know, man, I've been dry.
Marc:That's the word they use in the recovery racket.
Marc:I've been dry, and some of you have noticed it, and I've noticed it, but...
Marc:But I'm on it.
Marc:I'm on it.
Marc:I went to a thing, all right?
Marc:I went to a thing last night.
Marc:I've been a little distant from the things, and sometimes all you got to do is check in with the secret society and get reconfigured a little bit, reprioritized, understand where you came from and what that looked like.
Marc:But it's hard to know with the dry thing, where everything's going all right, yet you're snotty and short and angry.
Marc:and resentful it's sort of like why do why is any of that stuff happen why do i have any of that why am i talking in this sort of manic aggressive tone sometimes and it's easy to think like well i'm just at the end of my rope today or i you know it's been a rough week i am busy there's always planes coming in for landing in my brain uh and projects that need to be done like today today i i you know i don't know when you'll hear it but today in an hour a couple hours i have to go
Marc:interview Paul McCartney in a tight sort of situation, live, for an in-house Capitol Records thing.
Marc:And...
Marc:Yeah, I mean, we're going to put it up as a podcast eventually.
Marc:But yeah, for a week or so, I've just been making myself crazy about interviewing a Beatle.
Marc:Maybe I'll talk more about it when I present the show that it is.
Marc:But that's stressful.
Marc:But the dry thing, the dry thing is real.
Marc:And you got to get on that, especially if you're a person that your brain just does that naturally.
Marc:If you don't have a sort of resource or support system to pull you out of that lockup.
Marc:You know, there's sort of an aggravated lockup that happens.
Marc:Do a lot of damage, man.
Marc:Can hurt some people, hurt yourself.
Marc:Before I forget to mention, the lovely and charming Chris O'Dowd is on the show today.
Marc:What a great guy.
Marc:Fun talk coming up, all right?
Marc:I've been making music.
Marc:You know, I've been working with Tal Wilkenfeld, the bass player, the genius, who I was on a show with, with Dean Delray, comedy, kind of rock show, and she played bass, was pretty amazing.
Marc:She plays with Jeff Beckman.
Marc:Well, we're trying to lay down a track for the credit sequence of the new Lynn Shelton movie that I'm in.
Marc:And they're using, Lynn is using a lot of the guitar work I do on this show at the end, if you listen to it, throughout the movie.
Marc:So now we're actually doing a studio track with Tal.
Marc:So I'm learning all kinds of new things.
Marc:A little frustrating, new skills.
Marc:It's not just the immediate relief, sloppy guitar playing.
Marc:You know, there's a process that has to be abided by in the studio.
Marc:And it's kind of exciting.
Marc:You can just do over things and drop things in.
Marc:I'm a strong believer in the playthrough.
Marc:Let's just play it live and in the moment.
Marc:But...
Marc:my sense of rhythm is not great.
Marc:Click track doesn't hurt.
Marc:And, uh, you know, just doing the leads over and over again.
Marc:I'm, I just, I'm starting to understand the world of the studio, a very little bit, a very little bit, but it's very exciting.
Marc:So that's sort of creative change in a good way, but I did want to share an email if I could.
Marc:So this is a, this is an interesting email because it just came in the inbox out of nowhere.
Marc:And I, I would imagine most of it is true.
Marc:Um,
Marc:But this is where, at least in this area, I think in what's going to be talked about in this email, I've made some progress.
Marc:Subject line, Time Warner Cable.
Marc:Hi, Mark.
Marc:I've been listening to your podcast for the past eight years, and I'm a big fan.
Marc:It's always a treat to invite you into my headspace for your comedy candor and ability to connect with those you interview.
Marc:I'm from Canada.
Marc:specifically a small town called Sudbury.
Marc:In the early 2000s, there was a boom in call center jobs because the Canadian dollar wasn't faring as well as its American counterpart.
Marc:The largest company was called Teletech, and it provided customer service for Time Warner L.A.
Marc:These were terrible jobs, and most people would fleece to the place for the three weeks of training and quit before they ever had to take a call.
Marc:This was my initial plan as a young person.
Marc:I was in my post-college dropout slump and needed money for smokes and food as the coffers were dangerously low.
Marc:After crunching the numbers, it looked like I needed to work a week on the phones to facilitate my introverted pauper life for the next few months.
Marc:So I bit the bullet, did the training, and tried my best to help people with the limited tools available.
Marc:Mostly, I would make people unhappy for eight hours because nothing worked and technicians were often no-shows.
Marc:I've managed to block most of the experiences during that week, save one conversation, and that was only because of your Time Warner episode on Marin.
Marc:Here we go.
Marc:Now we're in it.
Marc:I remember doing my intro and being greeted by an exasperated, angry man who venomously introduced himself as Marc Maron.
Marc:This was ordinary given how long people had to wait on hold.
Marc:However, what was out of the ordinary was your history.
Marc:Whenever you call one of these places,
Marc:A conversation summary is written and available for the next employee, and you had dozens of summaries listing you were vicious, flabbergasted, mean, etc.
Marc:So I buckled up and I asked how I could help.
Marc:When you said your internet was down, I put you through the motions.
Marc:Did you try turning it off and on again?
Marc:And let me send a signal to your modem.
Marc:And of course, none of this worked.
Marc:In the week I worked for Time Warner, the troubleshooting worked maybe 10% of the time, and I would be surprised and happy when it did.
Marc:Anyhow...
Marc:Much grumbling ensued and it of course did not work and I said that we needed to send a technician.
Marc:At this point, you ripped into me with fury and naked disdain.
Marc:In a job where I was regularly yelled at, it must be said that you were particularly good at it.
Marc:You made mention of starting your own functioning internet company and suing me and Time Warner into the ground because people shouldn't be treated this way.
Marc:I sighed and said this sounded most acceptable.
Marc:You then asked what the fuck was wrong with me.
Marc:I apologized and once again suggested when a good time would be to schedule a technician as it was all I could do.
Marc:You then pulled the, do you know who I am, Mark Maron?
Marc:I got nervous, hesitated, and let out a faltering, uh, because I didn't know at the time.
Marc:Dude, let me just tell you, nobody did.
Marc:But anyways, this broke your anger and in the calmest, most resigned voice, you said, that's all right.
Marc:and you apologized profusely.
Marc:You said you knew it wasn't my fault and it was wrong of you to take your frustration out of me.
Marc:I assured you that getting yelled at was par for the course of my position and I had no ill will and apologized for your internet not working.
Marc:It was one of the nicer exchanges I had during my time on the phones.
Marc:going through the emotional gamut and reaching mutual defeat in a perhaps imagined form of solidarity.
Marc:I quit not long after and breathed a sigh of relief.
Marc:It was about 15 years later, and it's odd that working a shitty call center job has awarded me a fond memory of interacting with my favorite podcaster.
Marc:It's a strange and beautiful world, and luckily I now have a job where I don't make strangers sad.
Marc:I hope your internet is running smoothly these days.
Marc:Thanks for your time, Matt.
Marc:Well, Matt, you know, the...
Marc:It happened again.
Marc:That's what inspired that episode of Marin.
Marc:But I'm surprised that I did the do you know who I am thing.
Marc:But the rest of it sounds right.
Marc:And again, Matt, if you're listening, I apologize again.
Marc:But thank you for the walk down memory lane.
Marc:Certainly.
Marc:Thank you for that.
Marc:Dry, right?
Marc:Dry.
Marc:Would a sober acting fella do that?
Marc:I don't know, man.
Marc:I'm mad that I got a cold.
Marc:I'm very busy, and I'm overwhelmed all the time.
Marc:But I have to start realizing that this is fun.
Marc:This is good.
Marc:This is the good stuff.
Marc:This is what we live for.
Marc:And Chris O'Dowd is on the show today, and he's a great guy.
Marc:We had a great conversation.
Marc:I'm very happy when I'm talking to people.
Marc:It's like in between things, those hours or two where I'm just festering.
Marc:When you work a lot or when you're overly busy and you start to run out of any time for yourself or in your mind or in life, you start to fucking tweak a little bit.
Marc:It's almost like there's no room in your brain and you're just thrashing up against that by dumping it on other people.
Marc:But if you're concerned, I'm getting on top of it.
Marc:So don't be.
Marc:I'm okay.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:So, O'Dowd.
Marc:Great guy.
Marc:Nicest guy.
Marc:Funny guy.
Marc:Charming guy.
Marc:Very talented actor.
Marc:It was a pleasure.
Marc:Truly fun to hang out with him.
Marc:Season 2 of Get Shorty returns to Epics on Sunday, August 12th.
Marc:And this is him and I just talking about stuff.
Marc:And I like Irish people.
I like Irish people.
Guest:Have you still got a lot of cats?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's three cats in there, in the house.
Marc:Is that a lot?
Marc:No, I think that's a reasonable amount.
Marc:Right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't think that anybody would... They wouldn't fault me for three?
Guest:No, I think any more than that, then there would be questions.
Marc:The most I've ever had at one time was maybe four.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But I did feed some cats outside.
Guest:Yeah, we have a cat.
Marc:Yeah, one...
Guest:Yes, it's a Siamese.
Marc:Like a thoroughbred Siamese?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's really quite awful.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Are you not a cat person?
Guest:I think I've grown to accept it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It very much came with my partner, with my wife.
Marc:The cat came with her, so it's an old cat now?
Marc:It's 13, I think.
Marc:So you've been with your wife how long?
Marc:10?
Marc:No, that's not right.
Marc:8?
Marc:8?
Marc:Let me think, where are we at?
Guest:Well, how long have you been married?
Guest:5.
Marc:Okay, so that's easy.
Marc:Yeah, so 8.
Marc:So you know that one.
Marc:8.
Guest:It's 8, yeah, so 5, yes.
Guest:8.
Guest:Flippin' hell, is it 6?
Guest:I think it's 6.
Marc:I wouldn't let her listen to this.
Marc:I'm starting to think that maybe you should make sure she doesn't hear this.
Marc:If this was just a conversation we were having and she was sitting right there, from my experience, not a great moment.
Guest:You know, I feel pretty assured she will never listen to this.
Guest:All I need to do is tell her that it's an interview that I'm on.
Marc:Has she had enough?
Marc:Is that what you're saying?
Marc:She'll be like, yawn.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, thanks.
Marc:Yeah, I don't need to...
Marc:Yeah, you know, they have to, the significant others, partners of people that draw attention to themselves on purpose really have to carve out their own thing.
Marc:That's fair.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What does she do?
Marc:Is she in show business?
Guest:She's a writer.
Guest:In show business?
Guest:No, she's like a novelist.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, so I don't think you'd call that show business.
Guest:No.
Guest:She's kind of a journalist.
Guest:I knew her as a documentary maker on the BBC, and then she went more into prose and writing columns.
Guest:She's from England?
Guest:She is.
Guest:Well, she's from a place called Guernsey.
Guest:Guernsey?
Guest:Which is an island just off France, but is part of the United Kingdom.
Marc:That's getting complicated.
Marc:Is it like... It's very nice.
Marc:It's like she's from Catalina.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:So it's not like there's a different tribe of British people there.
Guest:There's a different tax system.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And it was invaded, like, during the war, the last time we were there, it was actually invaded.
Guest:While you were there?
Guest:No.
Guest:I think I would have heard about that.
Guest:Yeah, during the war on entertainment, it was invaded.
Marc:That war is going on in full force here.
Marc:Yeah, we're winning.
Marc:Yeah, I hope we're winning.
Marc:I can't remember what side we're on.
Marc:But it's not like Wales.
Guest:It's not like Wales, no.
Marc:I have no understanding of any of this.
Marc:No, that's okay.
Marc:I just know that in Wales, it's a different world, kind of.
Marc:There's an old language to it.
Guest:Yes, that's true.
Marc:And the names are spelled funny.
Marc:Oh, a lot of L's.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So I just do like, that's what I'm asking.
Marc:Is it like that?
Guest:They have this odd thing.
Guest:People who are traditionally from Guernsey speak as if they're from South Africa.
Guest:It's a very strong accent.
Marc:Very unusual.
Marc:On purpose?
Guest:It doesn't seem accidental.
Guest:It seems more inherent.
Guest:Inherent.
Guest:But it's nice.
Guest:It's kind of nice to hear this very specific variation on a very old language.
Guest:Now, you have children, right?
Guest:We do.
Guest:You have one?
Guest:I'm going to get this number correct.
Guest:Oh, I would hope.
Guest:We have two.
Guest:We have a three-year-old, three-and-a-half-year-old, and he'll be actually one next week.
Marc:Now, both these kids born in the States, do they speak with an accent?
Yes.
Guest:The one-year-old speaks not much.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And the three-year-old, we definitely hear words.
Guest:What was it?
Guest:It felt like, oh, yes.
Guest:There was something he picked me up on the other day when I was referring to something as a palm tree.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it felt like, God, this is not only annoying that he's correcting my pronunciation, but that it's in reference to a palm tree.
Marc:He said palm?
Guest:Palm.
Guest:You mean palm tree?
Guest:Palm tree?
Guest:I'm like, shut up, American.
Marc:Does he say third correctly?
Guest:He uses all the H's in that word.
Marc:He does?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then there's words that we use differently, like trash and things like that, he'll say.
Marc:Oh, so he's got those?
Marc:Yes.
Guest:In Ireland, we don't call it trash.
Guest:We call it useful.
Guest:We call it rubbish.
Marc:You call it rubbish?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I like rubbish.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I would get the kid going with rubbish.
Guest:Yeah, he does.
Guest:I feel like he's picking a lot of stuff up outside the house.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:He's three.
Marc:How was you just letting him out at night?
Guest:He runs a club night.
Guest:He goes to daycare.
Marc:He's like a cat.
Marc:He comes back in the morning.
Marc:He's an indoor outdoor three year old.
Guest:Yeah, he shits in a sandbox.
Marc:Well, well, you're like, how long have you been here?
Guest:I've been kind of coming over and back for the guts of a decade.
Guest:And then I came over properly maybe seven or eight years ago, which is I actually met my wife here usually at her 30th birthday party.
Marc:How did that happen?
Guest:I was coming over.
Guest:I didn't know that many people.
Guest:And a mutual friend of ours, it turns out, a guy called Nick Frost.
Guest:I don't know if you're familiar with this.
Marc:I know Nick Frost.
Marc:I've interviewed Nick Frost.
Guest:Oh, you have?
Guest:He's been in.
Guest:A long time ago.
Guest:He's a great guy.
Guest:And I said, who do you know who's in town?
Guest:And he said, oh, Dawn is in town.
Guest:You should look her up.
Guest:So I friend requested her on Facebook.
Guest:Yep, that's how it starts.
Guest:And she turned it down three times.
Guest:Three times.
Guest:Which felt like unnecessary.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, like you were just trying to meet some people that you might have common friends with.
Guest:My Facebook picture is of a very old Floridian woman.
Guest:And I think I had a fake name on Facebook also.
Marc:And that's the one you requested her friendship with?
Marc:Which would have been difficult, I guess.
Marc:Yeah, no, I don't blame her.
Guest:And eventually she was throwing this party and she hadn't been in town that long and she was worried that nobody was going to turn up.
Guest:So on the day of the party, she said, hey, how's it going?
Guest:Why don't you come to the party?
Guest:And the rest is history.
Guest:And then love blossomed.
Guest:It did.
Guest:For real.
Marc:Well, for, you know, for a few weeks after that, certainly.
Marc:Oh, well, that's nice.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then that's good.
Marc:But let's talk about Ireland, because I was just there, and let's talk about the political structure, the history, the church.
Marc:Let's do it all.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I'm hoping that you're going to educate me.
Marc:I have an unnatural love of the place, being an Eastern European Jew.
Marc:I don't know what it's from.
Marc:It feels ancestral to me, but it's not.
Marc:I go there, and I'm like, this is where I would live if I had to run.
Marc:That's interesting.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I find... Here's another thing that I don't know if you've heard.
Marc:Why would you have?
Marc:I spent a lot of years in Boston being terrified of the Irish.
Marc:And because the Boston Irish are a different thing unto themselves.
Marc:They were intimidating, somewhat mean.
Marc:I'm generalizing.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:But then I realized, like, you know, when the Irish...
Marc:came here they really had to tough it out that's right and they you know put on a you know they got they they got tough because I go to Ireland and I see the same type of person the same guys that look like the Irish I knew in Boston and I'm I'm like oh my god here we go and they're very sweet people do you understand what what America did to the Irish I think they're combined with that and I think that's true
Guest:I think also the tough ones left a lot.
Marc:They were bad eggs on the way out.
Marc:And you cracked them.
Marc:And they got tougher.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:You scrambled these bastards and then they took to the streets and became cops and whatnot.
Guest:And that hardened them further.
Guest:Cops and the opposite of cops.
Guest:Very much so.
Guest:And then we're mistreated and with the same racist practices that are happening all over the country now.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And we're downtrodden and that toughen them up.
Guest:And the weather in Massachusetts is pretty rough.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Harden them also.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I guess so.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I've grown to like all of them.
Marc:You know, it was like my own fear that was causing a very specific, my own type of judgment of the Irish.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I think it's fair to say that it's a different brood to the people inside of Ireland.
Guest:And I think that's true, to be honest, of all nations.
Marc:I guess that's true.
Marc:They come here and they get ruined.
Marc:Or travel.
Guest:The people that travel.
Guest:I find that when I meet Australians in London, I'm like, these are not like Australians in Australia at all.
Marc:What's the difference?
Marc:Like in Australia specifically, since you're noticing it.
Marc:Because my sense of Australia is I'm wondering where you're going with this.
Guest:I just that I find that the ones that seem to end up in London, I'm sure they're lovely people, but they're definitely more boorish.
Marc:Oh, so they've got a chip.
Guest:What's frustrating about what just happened is I really searched for a very delicate adjective.
Marc:Well, maybe they got a chip on their shoulder for England having sent their families there to begin with.
Guest:Maybe that's it.
Marc:Maybe they're coming back for what's owed them.
Guest:At last.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Thanks for shipping my great, great, great, great grandfather off to that fucking island.
Guest:And making him converse with Irish convicts.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I think it is true to say that Irish people are very different in either place.
Guest:Irish people on the East Coast are very different to people in Ireland.
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, but, you know, most Americans are Irish.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:There are quite a number.
Guest:But there's loads of you.
Marc:Yeah, no, that's true.
Marc:But it was just fascinating the number of Irish, you know, that aren't in Ireland is profoundly impressive.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I guess you could thank the church for that.
Guest:There is.
Guest:And also, you know, not to... During the famine, I'm glad we're probably six minutes in, the famine's up.
LAUGHTER
Guest:When does it usually come up with you?
Guest:I'm going to do a tight five on the famine now.
Guest:No, during the famine, like just to put it into context, there was eight million people in the country before the famine.
Guest:Five years later, there was four million people.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:Two million people died.
Guest:Two million people left.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Just in very broad numbers.
Marc:Now, are you guys giving this on a note card when you leave Ireland?
Marc:That's right.
Marc:You know the passport stamp?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's all it says on it.
Guest:That equation.
Guest:Eight minus two minus two.
Yeah.
Guest:Good luck.
Guest:So that's quite a number of people to leave, particularly in such a short amount of time.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:And I guess half of those ended up in, you know, Eris Island.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that...
Guest:That was quite a number of people.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now we're speculating.
Marc:So your family didn't leave.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And how far back do they go?
Marc:Do you do that?
Marc:Do you know your lineage?
Guest:You know, I did a show about genealogy at one point.
Guest:You did a one-person show?
Guest:No, I did like a Christopher Guest show for HBO that was about like...
Marc:It's not the one where you got to, because I was supposed to do a genealogy show and they just never got back to me.
Guest:No, this wasn't like, who do you think you are?
Guest:Oh, that's what I wanted to do.
Guest:I'd like to do that too, but mine would be boring.
Marc:I think that's why they're not getting back to me.
Marc:I did everything they told me to do.
Marc:What did you do?
Marc:Well, I took two genetic spit tests, and it's been almost a year, and I think they just looked at it, and they're like, we get it, and he's a Jew, and that's it.
Marc:It's the end of it.
Marc:Like, it's Russia, Poland, all done, no story here.
Marc:So, oddly, I just sent in my own 23andMe yesterday.
Marc:Oh, you did?
Guest:I got it a couple of days ago.
Guest:You got yours?
Guest:No, I bought the thing.
Guest:I haven't done it yet.
Guest:Well, what are you anticipating you're going to find?
Guest:You know what I wanted to do it for more than the genealogy part of it was I heard on the 23andMe thing you can find out stuff that's wrong with you.
Marc:No, you can.
Marc:They ask you like twice when you go to the website.
Marc:They're like, all right, we can tell you about a few things, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's.
Marc:That's what I want.
Marc:And the other thing.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And then you go, okay, I want to hear about it.
Marc:And they're like, are you sure?
Marc:Because this will fuck you up.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, okay, so on the genealogy side of it, I feel like it's going to be very dull because there is a castle around 40 minutes from where I grew up and where my family still is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Called O'Dowd's Castle.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And it's where the first O'Dowd's came from.
Guest:Do you all have access to the castle?
Guest:It's a rune.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:It's a rune now.
Guest:But it was... I guess that's a yes.
Yes!
Yes!
Guest:Yes, especially late at night with cans of beer we have access to.
Guest:Nice.
Guest:And it's from, I think, 800.
Guest:So it's quite a while back.
Marc:800 AD.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Right.
Guest:800 AD, which is quite a while.
Guest:And that's how far we've traveled in 1,100 years, 1,200 years.
Guest:A couple blocks.
Guest:40.
Guest:40 minutes.
Guest:So the genealogy would be.
Marc:Yeah, you guys really stayed, huh?
Guest:It's really nice.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What's the town?
Guest:I'm from Boyle.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:And where is that in relation to a city that I've heard of?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:You may have heard of Galway.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I'm like an hour and a half, nearly two hours.
Guest:Which way?
Guest:Kind of northeast of Galway.
Guest:Oh, so not by the water.
Guest:I'm like half an hour from the water.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:See, like I didn't get to go there.
Marc:I've only been to Dublin and Kilkenny, you know, and I want... Kilkenny's nice.
Marc:It's pretty.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's a castle there as well.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Not in ruins.
Guest:No, it's a lovely castle.
Marc:Yeah, they take care of it.
Marc:I guess the O'Dowd's just didn't give a fuck about their castle.
Marc:But the people of Kilkenny and whoever runs that joint...
Guest:I presume when the British came and said, we're going to take your castle, we decided, well, we don't give a fuck.
Marc:We're out of here.
Marc:Go for it, Cromwell.
Marc:Yeah, knock it down.
Marc:We're heading for the hills.
Marc:Not farther than 40 miles from here, though.
Guest:We were terrified by the prospect of renovating anyway.
Guest:Do your worst.
Guest:Is that what happened?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Cromwell took it, yeah.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It doesn't matter.
Marc:Well, our country's like only 200 and change, and I don't know the beginning of it.
Marc:But I do appreciate that there are walls that old in Ireland.
Marc:I really like that about Ireland, that there's just things built that were built like a long, long, long time ago.
Guest:I do think, though, that something about your...
Guest:connection to the Irish people is probably about a shared history of suppression.
Guest:Like as an Eastern European Jew, Irish people, these are, you know, nations that have been suppressed and have managed to come out of it.
Guest:I'm always, this is going to be massively general, but I've always been impressed that one of the stalwarts of Jews in California or wherever is that they seem to have embraced humor and comedy so readily, which is incredible.
Marc:Yeah, well, it was a way to get by.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Like, it was a way.
Marc:I mean, Lenny Bruce, I'll paraphrase this bit.
Marc:I got to find it where he talked about just the Pharaoh, you know, like, bring in the Jew.
Marc:He's charming.
Marc:You know, like, I think there were a lot of things that were denied us because of being Jewish.
Marc:And we had to sort of figure out a way to work around it, you know.
Marc:But, I mean, that goes way back.
Marc:But, yeah, Jews were funny.
Marc:Yeah, they did a few things when they got here.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I didn't realize there were a lot of Jewish boxers, but I think- I didn't know that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, there were a lot of Jewish boxers in New York.
Marc:A friend of mine did paintings on them.
Marc:But I think that you kind of get a sense of humor to deal with the plight, but also to get over on people.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Yes, that's right.
Marc:Let's go talk to the Irish guy.
Marc:That guy can tell a story.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And also, I guess we both came up with our own barely tolerable cuisines to other people.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Guest:That's really fair.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, we don't have a history of cuisine.
Marc:Yeah, but there's great restaurants in Dublin.
Marc:There are now, yeah.
Marc:I like Irish food.
Marc:Which ones?
Guest:Which foods?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I mean, like, look.
Guest:Name a couple.
Guest:Well, no, I mean, it's a stew kind of a country.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It's a lot of, like, one pot stuff.
Marc:Yeah, and fish, though.
Marc:There's a lot of fish in Dublin.
Guest:A lot of fish.
Guest:I've never been a fish guy.
Guest:I feel like I don't know why.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I have my theories about it.
Marc:Well, I mean, like if you don't get the right fish, it's bland, really.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:You got to do fish right for it to taste like something.
Guest:And if when you're the youngest of five.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Fish, no good.
Guest:It can, you know, you get the dregs of food.
Guest:The Irish breads.
Guest:Very good.
Guest:Do you know what?
Guest:We do great fucking dairy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We do great bread.
Guest:We do great dairy.
Guest:And I miss that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Butters.
Marc:Butters.
Marc:Jams.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Stews.
Marc:There's nothing wrong.
Marc:I didn't have any stew, but I like stew.
Marc:Stew is good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But okay.
Marc:So you grew up in Boyle.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:How many kids in your family?
Marc:Nine?
Marc:Twelve?
Marc:Twelve.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Marc:No, that's not.
Marc:I was being a dick.
Marc:Three?
Marc:Four?
Marc:Seven?
Seven?
Guest:They're all numbers, aren't they, Mark?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:I'm going to say five, just due to accuracy.
Guest:I'm the youngest of five.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I have an older brother who's 10 years older and then three girls in between.
Guest:10 years older.
Marc:Well, that's not crazy.
Marc:No, it's not at all.
Marc:I don't know that guy.
Guest:Kid every two years.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:But you know your brother.
Marc:Very much so.
Guest:He's not like 30 years older.
Guest:No, he's 10.
Guest:10 years older.
Guest:He's a wonderful man.
Guest:Is he in Ireland?
Guest:He's actually in London now.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:His name is John.
Marc:Are any of them in Ireland still?
Guest:I have a sister in Ireland who has five kids of her own.
Guest:Five.
Guest:And then I have a sister in Melbourne, Australia.
Guest:And then a sister in Savannah, Georgia.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So they spread out.
Guest:Yes, I feel like this is the first generation to really spread our wings.
Marc:Finally, finally.
Marc:They left.
Guest:But then I have an auntie who I don't know very well, but she went to Tel Aviv as a kid and stayed and has been there since.
Marc:I guess she had the same...
Marc:experience that I had in Ireland with Israel.
Guest:Very much so, but she really committed.
Marc:Yeah, she did.
Marc:Look, there's still time, dude.
Marc:I don't know what's going to happen here.
Marc:No, sure.
Marc:Maybe inside two years.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:We'll see how it falls.
Marc:Where do you think you'll end up?
Marc:And when I go to Ireland?
Marc:No, in your life.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:That's too broad a question, isn't it?
Marc:In general?
Marc:Well, I think I just bought this house, and this might be the one, the last one.
Marc:It's a lovely house.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I could see dying here.
Marc:That's how you buy a new house.
Marc:Like, can I die here?
Marc:Yeah, I could see you dying here.
Marc:But I didn't want to die in the other one.
Marc:It would be sad to die in that one.
Marc:It was smaller.
Marc:I see.
Marc:You know, I don't have a wife and I don't have kids and, you know, I don't know what's going to happen, but I'd like to die in a bigger house.
Guest:When the news crews come, you want to really put on a show.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You want to be like, yes, I died here.
Marc:But I don't know what's going to happen.
Marc:You know, it's day to day.
Guest:No, I think that's true.
Marc:Do you get citizenship?
Marc:Are you a citizen?
Guest:We're actually in the middle of the green card process right now.
Marc:And has that been fucked up by whatever's happening in the world or not?
Guest:A little, yeah.
Guest:It's just been slowed down.
Guest:Usually it would be something that would take three months and we're in our sixth month.
Guest:Are you nervous?
Guest:No, I think it'll all be fine.
Guest:The only thing with it is it has this frustrating thing.
Guest:When you're in the middle of it, you can't leave the country.
Guest:This country?
Guest:This country, that's right.
Guest:And we were trying to.
Marc:Oh, because if you do, it'll be like, sorry, that's it.
Marc:You just have to start again.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:Which is boring.
Marc:Oh, even for a week?
Marc:Doesn't matter?
Guest:No, it doesn't matter.
Marc:But what's the worst that could happen to you?
Marc:You got to go back to beautiful Ireland.
Guest:I know, but then you can't, you know, it's just annoying.
Marc:Not that that's going to happen.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But anyway, we're going to go back to London for six months.
Marc:But do you get dual citizenship if you get the... I won't be a citizen.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:No, I don't really have any interest in that.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:But both of my kids are American.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:And they'll be dual citizens.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, all right, so you're in Boyle.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You're the youngest of all these kids.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:They're doing things.
Marc:You decide what?
Marc:You're going to... How does it... What's your dad do, first of all?
Marc:Let's get a sense of it.
Guest:He's a sign painter.
Guest:So we would do like pub signs and vans.
Guest:So I spent most of my kind of childhood up a ladder.
Guest:Do a lot of like election posters and things like that.
Marc:Were you like the last kid to be working with them?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I wasn't very good.
Guest:No.
Guest:But my sisters were great.
Marc:So you come from a sign painting family.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:How much sign painting is there to do?
Marc:A lot.
Marc:It's like when you go to Boyle, it's sort of like, that's my dad's sign.
Marc:That's my dad's sign.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And they're still up.
Guest:And the next town over and the next town over.
Guest:So three or four towns.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Full of your dad's signs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There weren't a huge amount of sign writers at the time.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So we would, yeah, we had a lockdown.
Yeah.
Marc:Did he do more artistic stuff like pig's heads for the pubs that are name things?
Guest:Oh yeah, a little bit of that.
Guest:It would generally be kind of cut out block letters and stuff like that.
Guest:And then later it moved more into mechanical stuff, so you would kind of cut out...
Marc:So he diversified as the sort of, as the type of science advanced, he stayed with the times.
Guest:He was a really early adopter or adopter of like computer stuff.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:Got really into like, I remember Gateway 2000.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:The computer that came in the cow box.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:And so as soon as that was possible, I think he was probably getting sick of being up a ladder when it's five degrees outside all the time as well.
Guest:And so... Oh, it sped things up?
Marc:Sped things up a lot.
Marc:To make the stencil or what have you?
Guest:Yeah, for things to not bubble and for things to not crack.
Guest:And it made it a lot easier.
Marc:And is he around?
Guest:He's still around.
Guest:Both of my parents are around.
Guest:I was talking to him yesterday.
Marc:Is he retired?
Marc:He's retired pretty much.
Guest:He kind of now he updates a local website for the town.
Guest:That's kind of what he does.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Does he go check his signs at all?
Guest:There's a lot of them still up.
Guest:I kind of love going home and we'll go to a town like the next over.
Guest:Or I remember doing a boat and we'll go out on the boat and I'll be like, I remember putting the sign on this boat when we were like 25 years ago.
Guest:Still there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he'd be like, I would have made a lot more money if I had made shit or signs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He just didn't get any repeat business.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh God.
Marc:They were solid.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He used the right stuff.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:He was a, he was very much not a money person.
Marc:He was not into the, uh, the, the idea of planned obsolescence.
Marc:No.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:This will, this will turn to shit in six years.
Marc:They'll have to call me back.
Guest:He was a perfectionist and probably a marginal workaholic.
Guest:Better than an alcoholic.
Guest:For sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or maybe not.
Guest:I don't really know.
Guest:Yeah, you do.
Guest:So it did mean that that was definitely thrust at us.
Guest:And what did your mom do?
Guest:She was a stay-at-home mom until I was kind of 10 or 11, and then she went back to college and became a therapist.
Marc:What kind of therapist?
Guest:She was from a small town, so it was mostly kind of relationship therapy, grief counseling.
Marc:Oh, yeah, like she did a PhD or something like that?
Marc:Yeah, she did an MA or whatever.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:In Trinity, yeah.
Marc:Oh, Trinity in Dublin?
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:That's a pretty campus.
Marc:Yeah, it's lovely.
Marc:Did you go see the Book of Kells?
Marc:I did.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They only show you one or two pages at a time.
Marc:They say it's very repetitive.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:The same jokes.
Marc:With the little art on the sides.
Marc:That library's impressive, though.
Guest:Yeah, you know what?
Guest:It's a beautiful campus.
Marc:Yeah, fresh in my mind.
Marc:This was there a few weeks ago.
Marc:It's got all the cobblestones.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:A tree just fell down.
Marc:Oh, did you?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Do you get the updates on your phone?
Guest:It was news.
Marc:In Ireland?
Guest:A tree fell down in the middle of Trinity Square.
Guest:Is everybody okay?
Guest:I presume there's a day of mourning.
Marc:I haven't checked.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So there you are.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:So she goes back to college and that was good.
Marc:And you're left on your own just painting signs with your dad.
Marc:When do you decide that you want to be an entertainer?
Guest:Much later.
Guest:So I go to college.
Guest:I get into college.
Guest:Trinity?
Guest:I actually went to UCD, which is the one down the street a bit.
Marc:Is that the one where you say to people, they go, oh, yeah, that one?
Marc:Probably.
Guest:But it's also where James Joyce went.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Did you break the headphones?
Guest:It would have been considered...
Guest:Traditionally to be the Catholic university, whereas Trinity was the Protestant university.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:So originally Catholics weren't allowed into Trinity.
Guest:Is that true?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:It was set up by the British government for people abroad.
Guest:Trinity was?
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Oh, so you actually went to the more Irish of the two.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yet I thought that Trinity or maybe it's just a town of Dublin claims James Joyce.
Guest:Like maybe I don't know who... No, we definitely... UCD would definitely claim James Joyce, but there would be...
Guest:busts and whatever of Joyce all over that part of Dublin because that's that's the whole that's all of it that's his that's his hood that's the Ulysses and Dubliners yeah all in and around there yeah it's all there there's some gorgeous but also like the Ginger Man is right down there which is another fantastic Irish book
Marc:the ginger man yeah there's a pub right on the just off trinity square which i haven't drank in so long i don't know i didn't go to any of those places i didn't enjoy any of the local music well that's a shame yeah we actually spent a lot of time at this strange hippie-ish health food restaurant that has a like you know a walk through what was it called god damn it
Marc:It's an unusual name.
Marc:My mind is going.
Marc:That's all right.
Marc:But like, because my girlfriend, hold on, hold on.
Marc:Name of Dublin place we ate.
Marc:That's good, right?
Marc:It's not even the real question.
Marc:Is this iron ore?
Marc:You know what it is?
Marc:It's like I took those two pieces from a beach in Kauai where it's broken down iron from some sort of machine.
Marc:Oh, that makes more sense.
Marc:It was not ore.
Marc:It was a piece of something.
Marc:I don't know what, though.
Marc:I don't think I was supposed to take it, though, but I don't think I'm going to get in trouble.
Marc:We'll see.
Marc:I know.
Marc:But I do like Dublin, though I do realize now that it is sort of turned out a bit tourist-wise.
Marc:It's not that quaint anymore in that way.
Guest:No, and it actually looks like a very kind of typical European city now.
Guest:There are parts of it where you could be in Zurich.
Marc:Right, but we went out, we took the train to the end and walked the cliffs.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Very pretty.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What's it called?
Guest:Maybe you were, I don't know, you were either at Dalky or Hoth or somewhere like that.
Marc:Hoth.
Guest:Hoth.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, that's nice.
Marc:Yeah, it was pretty.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, that's sort of Irish country, right?
Marc:Sure.
Guest:I mean, it's, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, it was nice.
Marc:I'm from the country.
Guest:So, like, kind of places that are just outside the city feel like, oh, that's... This is on the water.
Marc:It's very pretty.
Marc:Hoth is gorgeous.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It sounds like you're inland.
Guest:yeah yeah we are we're bog people bog bog people yeah Seamus Heaney yeah yeah the bog yeah he's not that far from me yeah those were heavy yeah yeah I remember reading it that's right yeah the stony gray soil of Monaghan yeah yeah and it is something it's got like a somewhat of a Angela's Ashes feel to it a lot of us
Marc:Yeah, it's heavy, right?
Marc:The weight is worn on the faces of the people.
Guest:The weight of history and the weight of experience and the weight of the family.
Guest:And he uses a lot of that in his themes.
Marc:But you got out.
Marc:You went to Dublin.
Guest:Yeah, I loved it.
Guest:But I went to Dublin and studied politics.
Guest:And while I was there, I did a play kind of by accident and then fell in love with it.
Marc:What play?
Marc:What play changed you from changing the world to being who you are now?
Marc:What did it to you?
Guest:What the fuck was it?
Guest:It wasn't even a play.
Guest:It was called Hay Fever.
Guest:And it was one of those English playwrights that, you know, write about country.
Guest:Hay Fever.
Guest:I can't actually remember.
Marc:But wait, what just happened in Ireland?
Marc:They voted to... Repeal the Eighth Amendment.
Marc:Yeah, which is a big deal.
Marc:Big deal.
Marc:Yeah, we're going the other way.
Marc:And it's fantastic.
Marc:We're going the other way in this country.
Marc:In Ireland, the cradle of Catholicism is like... It's incredible what's happening in Ireland, right?
Guest:Oh my God, it was great.
Guest:Because the year before last, we also voted for...
Guest:the legalization of gay marriage.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And now women are allowed to get abortions.
Guest:Up until now, you had to go to England, which is just such a Neanderthalic kind of exercise.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, that's what's going to happen here.
Marc:There are states now here that you can't.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know what's going on in America.
Marc:It's very odd.
Marc:I do.
Marc:It's terrible.
Marc:Odd's a polite word for it, but I appreciate that.
Marc:You can say how you really feel.
Marc:It's scary and fucked up.
Marc:It really is.
Marc:It's very, very odd.
Marc:Okay, we'll stick with odd.
Marc:The name of the restaurant we ate at a lot was Cornucopia in Dublin.
Guest:That's a very traditionally Irish name.
Marc:Yeah, it's a very kind of like vegetarian, hippie bent, Irish style food place.
Marc:Oh, cool.
Marc:And we went to Buley's a lot.
Guest:Oh, okay, yes.
Guest:That's an old standard.
Guest:That's a nice place.
Marc:Nice place to get.
Marc:Yeah, it's like traditional, but it's clean and pleasant.
Marc:They have nice food.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Scones of all kinds.
Guest:I think that's on Grafton Street.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just the one with all the cobbles.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it's pretty.
Guest:Good music there.
Marc:See, I lied.
Marc:I saw a lot of street performers.
Marc:On the streets, yeah.
Marc:Buskers, and some of them were fucking good.
Guest:Yeah, they're no joke.
Guest:They have to... I think they have to...
Guest:get picked.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Like, they don't let anybody just play on Grafton Street.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So, there's something of a... Right.
Marc:No, I... Which I think is good.
Marc:That seems true.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, it seems like they had the shit together.
Marc:Now, as an Irish person, does Bono annoy you?
No.
Guest:don't think it through too much i don't know it's not that i'm thinking it through i've have you hung out i've met him oh and i've uh i'm a bit torn on him because i like so much of his music from the old days sure um and i've seen them perform a couple of times me too me too yeah i think he gets too hard a time in ireland oh he does yeah why why why is that
Marc:I guess it's hard where you come from if people think you get too big for your britches.
Marc:There's that.
Guest:And there's some tax stuff.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And I think that, yeah, I think that predominantly it's the former.
Guest:That thing of like...
Guest:I genuinely think people got pissed off that he talked about charity so much.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I can't quite get my head around it.
Marc:But, like, you're talking about the Irish people, so are they like, you know, who do you think you are?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I think that they would...
Guest:accuse him of sanctimony.
Guest:There you go.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And that really pisses people off, particularly in Ireland.
Marc:Yeah, no, I get it.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:So, all right, so you were, yeah, so there's progressive things happening in Ireland on a governmental basis, cultural basis, but you bailed.
Marc:You're like, I'm not cut out for politics.
Marc:I'm a song and dance man.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:LAUGHTER
Guest:At the time I was doing politics in Ireland, it wasn't a particularly interesting political time in Ireland.
Marc:But what were you studying exactly?
Marc:What was the idea?
Guest:Well, we were doing a lot.
Guest:I mean, so we would have been doing a lot of Anglo-Irish relations and a lot of world politics.
Guest:I kind of like... We were actually... It was just before 9-11, I guess, that I was there.
Guest:So I remember doing...
Guest:a lot of pieces about the possibility of somebody from Saudi Arabia putting a big bomb in America.
Guest:There was a lot of talk about something like that.
Guest:God, I think in 95 there had already been... You mean the crate on the ship thing?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The suitcase thing.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:Yeah, those two.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I guess that was a large part of the...
Guest:the politics that we were studying.
Guest:But honestly, I lost interest after a bit.
Guest:I was like, this is cool.
Guest:I'll go to the odd lecture.
Guest:But I started doing plays and really liked it and hadn't really been, hadn't done anything expressive before in my life.
Marc:Oh, except for maybe paint some letters.
Guest:Yeah, which is much more of a skill than a creative thing.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Marc:So, all right, so you start doing plays.
Marc:Do you shift majors?
Marc:Do you study acting or you just wing it?
Guest:No, I just wing it, and I end up doing a bunch of plays, reading a bunch of plays, and then going to drama school.
Marc:Oh, so you went after college.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:So you graduated.
Guest:Never graduated.
Guest:Left college.
Guest:I got there till the end.
Guest:I stayed till the end.
Guest:But you didn't graduate.
Guest:But I didn't graduate.
Guest:You come up a couple credits short?
Guest:Yeah, I think I missed a couple of exams.
Marc:So doesn't that haunt you?
Marc:Do you ever wake up going, why can't I just finish that?
Marc:I...
Guest:Later, I didn't finish drama school.
Guest:And the combination of these two... Didn't finish either.
Guest:No.
Guest:And the combination of all of these does haunt me a little.
Marc:So you have two incompletes.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't... Okay.
Marc:You know what's going to happen is eventually you're going to be like, I'm going to go finish those.
Guest:I'm really pushing to get an honorary... Both?
Marc:I mean, maybe from the drama school, but I think it's a stretch to think you're going to get one from... Why?
Why?
Marc:Well, would you be happy with one?
Marc:I mean, which one would you want?
Guest:I don't think that the drama school would do it.
Guest:No.
Guest:I don't think we left on great terms.
Guest:What'd you do?
Guest:I just didn't like it.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:Did you do a play about it?
Marc:Did you do something awful on stage?
Marc:Did you slag them in the press?
Marc:Maybe a little.
Guest:In Ireland?
Guest:No, so I went to drama school in London.
Guest:So I was in Dublin for three years, and then I went to London and was there for 10 years.
Guest:How'd your parents respond when you were like, hey, I'm going to go do this with my life?
Guest:They were surprised initially, but they were very supportive.
Guest:I feel lucky that I was the youngest of five, and I think at that point they were like, he's not in prison, it's okay.
Marc:So they had four successful children, so they figured, let this one...
Guest:They had four reasonable children, you know.
Guest:And I think any moment of non-success had probably been brought about by too much pressure.
Guest:So they were like, just let him do what he wants.
Marc:Oh, right.
Marc:So they learned a certain lesson.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Oh, so you go to England.
Marc:And what's the drama school?
Guest:It's called the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art.
Guest:That's a big one, right?
Guest:Yeah, it's a pretty big one.
Marc:Did you have to audition to get in?
Marc:Very much so.
Guest:huh yeah which was scary yeah but uh what'd you audition with you remember i did uh i think i did an actually i think i did something from a hurley burley david rabe yeah he wrote that right that's right yeah that's a good one and then some shakespearean thing i think it might have been love got to the modern then the classical that's right and then a song you did a song yeah what song
Guest:What was it?
Guest:It was Fairy Tale of New York.
Guest:Oh, I don't know that.
Guest:The Pogues song.
Guest:Oh, it's a great song.
Guest:It's a what kind of song?
Guest:It's Pogues.
Guest:Oh, the Pogues.
Guest:Shane McGowan and the Pogues.
Marc:How's he doing?
Marc:You talk to him?
Guest:You know, I have one Shane McGowan anecdote.
Guest:Do you want to hear it?
Marc:I don't think I've ever told anybody.
Marc:I worry about Shane, but yeah, let's hear it.
Guest:I met him maybe seven or eight years ago at some award ceremony for some Irish thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was getting some award and he was getting some kind of lifetime achievement award for music.
Marc:For being alive.
Guest:Yeah, for being alive.
Guest:Everybody was fucking stunned.
Guest:And at one point, his manager or something came over to my table and said, you know, Shane would love to meet you.
Guest:He's a big fan.
Guest:And I was like, Jesus, really?
Guest:I was like, okay.
Guest:And it was like a black tight thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:At the end of the evening, I'd take my jacket off.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And over and I sat with him.
Guest:And he wasn't very talkative.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so I kind of prattled on about how much I liked his vibe.
Guest:And then eventually he stopped me and he says, I'll have a vodka and tonic, please.
Guest:And he thought I was the waiter.
Guest:You know, of course, at the time I was like, oh, shit.
Guest:In retrospect, I kind of, I have a lot of respect for the fact that he thought I was a waiter and let me talk to him for so long.
Marc:Effusively.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Why wouldn't he?
Guest:But yeah.
Guest:And then, of course, I had to go and get him his drink.
Marc:In a pint glass.
Marc:And that was it.
Marc:And he wanted it in a pint glass?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He asked for it in a pint glass?
Yeah.
Guest:He actually did this thing where he just went like this.
Guest:I'm using my hands to indicate a pint.
Guest:Big one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Big vodka and tonic.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So, all right.
Marc:So you did the Pogue song.
Marc:You did a little Shakespeare.
Marc:You did the hurly-burly.
Marc:You got in.
Marc:Got in.
Marc:You wowed them.
Marc:You charmed them with your song and dance.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:And you didn't like this school.
Guest:I just thought I wasn't ready to be...
Guest:Age of kids again.
Marc:I felt like I just... Didn't seem like you were ready the first time.
Guest:I don't think I was.
Guest:I think I should have left school and just done something else.
Guest:But I... Because I'm not great with authority.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I keep putting myself in positions where I'm being authorized constantly.
Marc:But maybe when you...
Marc:sought to study acting, you thought it would be more fun.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:But that school is kind of rigid.
Guest:It was extraordinarily rigid and up its own hall and taught everything in a very traditional sense that didn't in any way to me
Guest:adhere to the kind of modern necessities of creating a career in this thing.
Marc:They're not going to give you honor.
Guest:They're not, are they?
Guest:Even just from that fucking sentence, it's gone.
Marc:I think that ship has sailed.
Marc:It's fair, isn't it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But maybe they could just think about it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think you should go for the other place.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The Catholic College.
Marc:Which I loved.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Great education.
Marc:Oh my God.
Marc:What a beautiful campus.
Marc:What a mistake that you left in your heart, right?
Marc:My fault.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Not theirs.
Marc:It's going to happen, man.
Marc:We're going to make this fucking happen.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Shit.
Marc:So, but like really rigid, right?
Marc:What does that mean?
Marc:Movement, Shakespeare every day, fencing.
Guest:Dance, like a lot of dancing.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Way more dancing than I was expecting, Mark.
Guest:And I don't mind a boogie.
Guest:I don't.
Guest:But it was a lot of dancing.
Guest:There was like salsa and then there was flamenco.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And then there was, yeah.
Guest:And then I guess they thought it was something that like a... Get you in your body?
Guest:Kind of a holistic approach to movement as an actor, which I actually, I didn't mind that so much.
Guest:But then it was like, oh, I'm playing.
Guest:It's just more and more Jacobean dramas or fucking restoration comedies.
Guest:And I'm like, ah, Jesus Christ.
Guest:We have one week of TV and film training a year.
Guest:I'm like, what the fuck?
Marc:Come on, guys.
Marc:Yeah, we want to make some money, some of us.
Guest:Well, not even that, but it's like you just can't survive on what they were trying to sell.
Guest:Well, how long did you last?
Guest:Probably a year and a half of two years.
Marc:Man, you get right up to the wire, don't you?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you fucking pull out.
Guest:I feel like I thought I was going to see it through, and then I got a job, and I was like, ah.
Guest:Got a job.
Guest:And then I owed them money, and I'm like, I'm not going back.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You got a job on television?
Guest:I probably still owe them money.
Marc:You probably still owe them money?
Guest:Yeah, probably.
Marc:They must really be up their own ass if they haven't found you.
Yeah.
Guest:I don't think it was much.
Marc:Oh, the Alumni Association of my college, they know where I am.
Marc:I think if I stayed at a hotel for more than a month, I would get mail from them.
Marc:I'm surprised that I don't get mail from the BU Alumni Association when I'm on vacation for more than a week.
Marc:Well, since I left, I've been keeping a real low profile.
Marc:Oh, yeah, I can tell.
Marc:Yeah, they could never find you.
Marc:So what was the job?
No.
Guest:That job was, it was about priests.
Guest:Do you know what it was about?
Guest:It was about like homosexuality in the priesthood.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And while it was, I guess it's raison d'etre was to be controversial.
Guest:And while we were making it, all of the stories about paedophilia in the priesthood came out.
Guest:And suddenly our movie felt very timid.
Guest:It was a movie.
Guest:It was a movie, yeah.
Guest:It was called, what was it called?
Guest:Do you want me to look?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Conspiracy of Silence.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That was good.
Marc:Good memory.
Marc:Like if we just cut out the part where I say, do you want me to look?
Marc:You'd be like, I did it.
Guest:It wouldn't be at all weird that I was kind of shouting it as you were saying it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So, okay.
Marc:Did you see the movie Priest?
Marc:It was just called Priest.
Marc:I didn't.
Marc:Yeah, and who was in that?
Marc:I can't remember.
Guest:I remember it being around.
Marc:It was like the guy from Robert Carlyle was in it.
Guest:Oh, is that who it was?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And the lead was another guy that I'm not remembering.
Marc:But it was about a closeted gay priest who...
Marc:keeps the secret, you know, like, when he's outed.
Marc:But he also, like, he's been confessed to by a teenage girl who's being sexually abused by her father.
Marc:And he keeps that secret.
Marc:And, you know, when everybody turns on the priest for being gay, you know, she's the only one that takes communion at the end from him.
Marc:Rough stuff.
Marc:You know, yesterday, the Pope came out.
Marc:He's gay?
Marc:Wow, I think I would have heard about that.
Marc:Nobody would be shocked.
Marc:My phone must be broken.
Guest:I'd be so delighted for him.
Guest:God, you know what?
Guest:That would actually be my initial thought would be, I'm so delighted for him.
Marc:Yeah, finally.
Marc:That he feels he can... Everything's changing.
Marc:The Irwin repeals the Eighth Amendment.
Guest:But because of that, he has come out publicly and said that abortion is akin to Nazism.
Guest:And we've had some of our high priests and bishops in Ireland tell everybody who voted yes to go to confession.
Guest:It feels so extraordinarily behind the times.
Marc:Well, but you know what?
Marc:The institutions, if they want to remain institutions, either they adapt or they just hold the line.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I know.
Guest:And if that's their course of action, they're not going to win.
Guest:All they have to do is look at who's in the church and it's less people every year.
Guest:And that's from not adopting.
Marc:Well, how much, you know, I mean, after a certain point, if you learn that the church has, yeah, I mean, arguably been hiding pedophiles for centuries.
Uh-huh.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, like at what point do you go like, maybe the church is a little corrupt.
Guest:But a lot of the stuff that they've put in and they've put in, there's nothing to do with God, but particularly with Catholicism, the idea that priests can't marry is purely a financial decision.
Guest:Essentially, the Catholic Church decided the priests can't marry because they couldn't afford to take care of priests families.
Marc:Yeah, because there's going to be a lot, a lot of kids.
Guest:A lot of kids because these aren't going to be big condom guys.
Guest:So it's going to be, yeah, it's going to be a lot of kids and it's going to be, they're not going to be able to maintain that.
Guest:But then you end up with people who don't want to get married or have sex.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So now you're picking from a group of people who are committed virgins.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's dangerous.
Marc:Yeah, it's a tough road.
Guest:That's a small demo.
Guest:I have some sympathy with the Catholic Church in that I think that for a long time in somewhere like Ireland, it was...
Guest:we needed something to maintain a national identity when we were constantly being bombarded by somebody else's.
Guest:And I think that people found refuge in the Catholic Church and found a state of identity, whether that was misplaced or not.
Guest:but to soldier through those hard times.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And there is a chance that now we just don't need that anymore.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And therefore, the institution has become redundant.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah, well, it's not going to go away, but, you know... No, people will still have faith because we just, until somebody...
Guest:comes back and say, hey, I've just died and this happened.
Guest:There's always going to be religion.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:But, you know, it won't be, you know, you'll negotiate your relationship with it as people have been doing forever.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:And you don't have a relationship with it.
Marc:I don't.
Marc:Did you grow up with it?
Guest:I was an ultra boy growing up.
Guest:So I can't remember or recall how much of it I believed or didn't believe or what faith I had necessarily.
Guest:I can't remember ever losing faith.
Guest:So there's a good chance I just never really bought into it.
Marc:So it wasn't beaten into your brain?
Marc:No, no.
Guest:It was definitely a big part of our teaching.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I... You weren't sufficiently terrified.
Guest:Like my parents would talk of the most horrendous treatment at the hands of kind of bullying priests and nuns.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Which was...
Guest:Just by the by.
Marc:But you didn't experience it.
Guest:No, I didn't.
Guest:And I actually grew up with very progressive priests who I still kind of love dearly as people and progressive men.
Guest:Oh, that's nice.
Marc:You talk to them still?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:That's nice.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But no, you're not hung up on the God thing.
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:And I think they seem okay with that.
Marc:Well, yeah, they're happy you're a decent fella.
Marc:Yeah, I think so.
Marc:I think so, yeah.
Marc:Okay, so you do the movie.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But it didn't really take off.
Marc:No.
Guest:And then I probably didn't work for two years.
Marc:So you're happy you dropped out?
Guest:I mean, if I had been surrounded by everybody else who was doing wonderfully, I probably would have thought, oh, shit.
Guest:But everybody once they get out is struggling.
Guest:So what did you do for two years?
Guest:Bar, mostly.
Guest:Worked in a lot of bars, worked in construction, worked in call centers.
Guest:Did all of that for probably the guts of a decade.
Guest:Even when you start working, you're only getting the odd job.
Marc:Are you doing bit parts?
Guest:Doing little bit parts and things.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Up until kind of 26, 27.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Something like that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then when does it break?
Marc:What bit parts did you do?
Marc:Like anything big?
Marc:No.
Guest:No?
Guest:Nothing that you would have heard of, I don't think.
Guest:Like procedural kind of stuff on British TV.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I did a show called The IT Crowd.
Marc:Oh, that was a big show.
Guest:Which was a comedy.
Guest:Yeah, that did pretty well.
Marc:I remember watching episodes of it online.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:When it was popular because people were like, this is the popular funny show.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It was almost like they had sort of a buzz that was almost office-ish.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Yeah, it was a popular show, a very funny show at times, and introduced me to a writer called Graham Linehan, who's a terrific Irish writer.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And he would have been kind of a hero of mine for years from another show called Father Ted and Black Books with Dylan Moore.
Marc:Black Books, I watched some of those because I talked to Dylan years ago.
Marc:Yeah, that was, oh, the same guy?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, he wrote that too.
Marc:Either two of those guys wrote that one.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But is that after IT Crowd?
Marc:No, this is all before.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, right.
Marc:That was earlier.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:So he's a very funny guy.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And so that was my first kind of introduction to doing something that people are going to see.
Guest:And getting paid regular.
Guest:Getting paid, which was good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was the first time that I could not do other jobs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which was great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I'd done the odd thing.
Guest:I'd done a film with Mike Lee called Vera Drake, which was a terrific film, but those kind of, you know, you still got to do your day job.
Marc:I didn't see that one.
Marc:It was a later Mike Lee film, huh?
Guest:It was about, it was Bring It All Back.
Guest:It was about Backstreet Abortionist in London.
Marc:Oh, I think I did see that.
Marc:I love his stuff.
Guest:I oddly do something of a comic turn in it.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:I didn't know when I was making the film what it was about.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then a friend of mine a few months later said, oh, I saw that Mike Lee movie that you're in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, oh, shit, how is it?
Guest:And he said, oh, I mean, it's fucking dark.
Guest:Oh, so you just had like a scene?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was like, what do you mean it's dark?
Guest:I'm basically doing a fucking... No, it's improvised.
Guest:There's no script.
Guest:There's nothing.
Guest:So he just cast you for a bit?
Guest:Yeah, we didn't even know what I was going to do when he cast me.
Guest:I don't know if you know much about his process, but it's kind of fascinating where I did one day's filming, but I worked on it for four and a half months.
Guest:So you go in once every two or three weeks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you start from the ground up of like, let's talk about people in your life.
Guest:I want you to talk to me about 10 different people.
Guest:With Mike.
Guest:With Mike.
Guest:And he will hone after talking about all of these people for quite a while, hone in on one person that he wants you to play.
Guest:And then you create an audience.
Guest:basically in a kind of an alternative universe that they've grown up in but this person is still the same essence of a person Wow and then he closer to the time of the filming will start to fill you in on the very details and minutia of this person's life Huh
Guest:And then on the day of the filming, he's, you get into costume and he says, you're going to go in and buy a suit.
Guest:Like, okay.
Guest:And we're in some hospital somewhere.
Guest:And he says, you just, whenever you're ready, you just walk down the car door and the fourth door on the left.
Guest:I haven't seen a camera or anybody at this point.
Guest:You're just going to walk into that room and you're going to buy a suit, you know, for your sister's wedding, like we talked about.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was like okay and so you go in and it's a whole set and there's kind of hidden camera not hidden camera but like they're kind of disguised behind big flats and things and somebody writing down all of the words and you go in there's another actor there played by Danny Mays and a character played by Danny Mays and
Guest:You do the scene.
Guest:It takes whatever, six or seven minutes.
Guest:And then he's like, okay, cut, great, thanks.
Guest:And he said, now what we're going to do is somebody is going to transcribe everything that you just said, and we're going to shoot it tomorrow with that transcription, and that's going to be your script.
Guest:And that's it.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:So you went in the next day and did it.
Guest:And you were given sides?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Of what you said?
Guest:What was unusual about it is that obviously it's entirely improvised the day before.
Guest:And then on the day, it's really, it's like doing a Sorkin movie or something where you're incredibly, if you say that instead of a, he's like, cut.
Guest:No, that's... Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's very weird.
Guest:But...
Guest:Kind of fascinating.
Guest:That's wild.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's amazing.
Marc:So that's how he makes the whole movie.
Marc:I guess so.
Marc:I mean, that's my experience.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So I got to watch it.
Marc:You did a funny bit in there.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I was very surprised to hear it was a drama.
Guest:And when you watch it, you'll be like, how did you not know?
Guest:It's very much a dark kitchen sink drama.
Marc:Well, yeah, you were just doing the one bit.
Marc:So how do you get over here?
Guest:Well, I came over.
Guest:I was auditioning for a lot of stuff.
Guest:There?
Guest:No, here.
Guest:Yeah, in London.
Guest:And I auditioned for something which I thought was for the BBC.
Guest:And it turned out that it was for NBC.
Guest:And it was a pilot.
Guest:And so I came over and ended up testing for a pilot.
Guest:with Kevin Hart.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And... Is that where you met Dave Becky?
Guest:Don't you have a Dave Becky story?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Well, I signed with Becky off that.
Marc:Oh, so you come here.
Marc:It's Kevin Hart's first... The show didn't go, though.
Marc:The show didn't go.
Marc:But you met Becky.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Dave Becky.
Guest:Kevin and I are actually testing against each other for whatever fucking role we are both the right person for.
Guest:We are... Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And...
Guest:Eventually, we both end up in the show.
Marc:So that was back in 2000 and what?
Marc:Five, six, something like that.
Marc:And Becky's like, you're my guy.
Guest:Yeah, I guess so.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And...
Guest:And the show doesn't go.
Guest:I go back to England and keep working.
Guest:But then I start coming back because it doesn't feel like such an odd thing to do anymore.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I liked it.
Guest:And I liked that it was warm.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which seems trite, but it's kind of nice.
Guest:It's warm.
Marc:What was the story we talked about when we were at the hotel that day about the weird coincidence of Becky?
Marc:I know that Becky represented you, but like that you're...
Guest:oh right well just that um i kind of around the time i started meeting judd apatow yeah he told me the like that um that i got a particular audition because i think becky used to give him time at a club oh back it when he was back when becky was running doors at the uh improv yeah um yeah
Guest:And so that's kind of how that worked out.
Guest:Oh really?
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:I was familiar with that.
Guest:And I don't think anybody else in the room knew me.
Guest:But I remember going into that thinking, um, this is unlikely.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they have that odd thing in American auditions where there's like a sheet outside for you to sign your name, to just let the casting director know that you've arrived.
Guest:And you look at the fucking sheet and it's like, oh my God, it's all these fucking people.
Marc:Everybody, everybody is a star.
Guest:It's literally everybody that's better than me in America.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so I'm like, ah, wow.
Guest:And it had this odd effect on me, which was to suddenly make me utterly calm about the whole thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I'm like, oh, it's not even, there's no chance, you know?
Guest:So there's no pressure.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So when he first met Apatow, it was like he brought up that Becky used to put him on stage.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:And that's why he's meeting you.
Guest:Or why he was, I think, looking favorably at me.
Guest:I think he was meeting me because I had just done a good audition with Paul and Kristen.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:So that was like, you showed up at a couple other things, but that was a big part.
Marc:You were like the nice guy in the Bridesmaids movie.
Marc:Right.
Marc:The cop, it was funny, but it was warm.
Marc:You seemed like a real character, like a grounded kind of guy.
Marc:Yes, I think that's right.
Guest:And I obviously, when I was doing that film, didn't know that it was...
Guest:I didn't know what the girls were doing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I thought, hey, what we're doing is pretty good.
Guest:But it wasn't until I saw it that I was like, oh, my God, this is funny as shit.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like, I hadn't seen the stuff that kind of Rose and Kristen and Melissa were doing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So when I watched it, I was like, oh, God.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm glad I didn't know.
Guest:I would have really tried to be very funny.
Yeah.
Guest:And stunk the place out.
Marc:But there was no script or you just don't read the scripts when you get them?
Guest:I think a lot of the stuff that ended up in that movie came quite late.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was going through some process thing at the time where I wasn't really reading scripts.
Guest:I was only reading stuff I was in.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And just the parts of the script that you were in.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Why?
Why?
Guest:Because I felt that you get clouded by everything else.
Guest:And for exactly the reason I think I just said where it's like I would have tried to do something else based on somebody else's stuff.
Marc:But maybe something, you know, they set up your character some way earlier on that you might need to know.
Guest:I remember actually asking, let me know if there's anything I need to know.
Guest:Otherwise, just give me the pages that I'm in.
Marc:So what's it like doing this type of TV show that you're doing now with Get Shorty?
Marc:I mean, because it's like, it's not essentially, it's not a comedy like regular comedies.
Guest:No.
Guest:No, it's, I guess, what the fuck would you call it?
Guest:It's kind of like a comedy drama, but it's more...
Marc:I don't know it's kind of like action-y and yeah there's a lot going on yeah there's like car stuff yeah but you and you're working with Ray yeah which is you know you guys are doing a lot of stuff together and he's a funny guy yeah he's great yeah he's lovely to be around actually
Marc:He's gotten to be a very good actor himself.
Guest:Man, I love watching him.
Guest:I could watch him all day.
Guest:I think he just does... He does desperation so beautifully.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's somebody that you can always rely on in this scene.
Guest:You know, that he's...
Guest:He's always thinking.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's always taking over and he's looking for it.
Guest:He's still always looking for a fucking funny out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which is great.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But he's made some big choices with it and followed through on them.
Guest:And I love what he's doing on it.
Guest:I love the show.
Guest:Like, I love doing it.
Guest:I love that it...
Guest:It doesn't have the means to an end that sometimes doing a comedy can feel like.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Where it's like, if you're not getting the full comic potential out of it, it doesn't mean it's not working.
Marc:Right.
Guest:That there are emotional beats in it and there is danger and suspense.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's not a joke to joke thing.
Marc:No.
Marc:You know, it's not always going to be funny.
Guest:No, particularly because I'm in it.
Marc:No, but it's like, you know, there's violence.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:These are seedy guys.
Guest:It's very unusual for me to play a front foot character.
Guest:You know, a character who's going to walk into a room and try and intimidate someone.
Guest:And that was probably why I took it on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just to feel what that felt like.
Guest:And how does it feel?
Guest:Feels fucking great.
Guest:Like I could see how people get addicted to this shit.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Yeah, for people to fucking...
Guest:to be the crazy in control guy the scary guy well yeah to be the person capable of violence in a room is um it's it's interesting the way that um other characters kind of behave you don't have to do you suddenly don't don't have to do anything yeah like just being there and inhibiting the space with um some kind of danger yeah kind of intoxicating
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what did you draw from to get there?
Marc:Just your own.
Guest:Some people I grew up with.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And, yeah, some very specific people I grew up with.
Marc:But were you able to tap, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Some guy that beat the shit out of you?
Marc:Yeah, kind of.
Guest:Yeah, some kind of, you know, I used to get into some scraps as a kid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You used to do this thing in the west of Ireland, which is fucked up when I think about it now, but at the end of, like, a disco or a club or whatever, like, towns would take on each other.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, like, Boyle would fight Carrigan Shannon behind the buses.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, like, there would be...
Guest:The guys from Boyle would like pick five guys, even if you were walking past or trying to kiss somebody or something.
Guest:They'd be like, come on, we're having a fight with this other town.
Guest:And I'm like, sure, why?
Guest:Sure, why?
Guest:Because you're tall.
Guest:And so it was those kind of people.
Guest:Right.
Guest:They don't necessarily have everything in common with a character like this, but a lot of the touchstones for him, somebody who's kind of slightly on the run and someone who doesn't have a lot of control, but then in an aggressive situation is extraordinarily controlled.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, right.
Guest:Yeah, so that was a big base.
Marc:So you can put them all together.
Marc:But did you tap into your own anger?
Guest:A lot of my own.
Marc:This is a healthy outlet for it.
Guest:Yeah, for sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I find I beat up a lot less people in my daily life since I started the show.
Marc:And now, where are you at?
Marc:You guys have done, have you shot a season two?
Guest:Yeah, we just actually finished this week.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, I just finished season two this week.
Marc:Oh, that's great.
Marc:So now they're going to go into post?
Guest:Yeah, I'm actually going to go and do ADR after this.
Marc:Oh, right now?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And have you got movies you're working on?
Guest:So right now, what am I doing?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I'm about to go back to London.
Guest:I'm going to shoot this interesting thing.
Guest:Finish college.
Guest:Finish college.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm going to go back and do this interesting thing, which is like 10 short minute, 10 minute short films.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:About a couple just before they go into their therapy.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:Into their room.
Guest:What's that for?
Guest:We don't really know yet.
Guest:But it's, it's my son.
Marc:Seems like a smart job to take.
Guest:I'm literally not getting paid for it.
Guest:Oh, it's great.
Guest:You're really open to opportunities.
Guest:My wife's delighted.
Guest:But it's an interesting kind of a thing where it's myself and Rosamund Pike, who's a lovely actor, and Stephen Frears is directing it.
Guest:And I feel good about it.
Guest:I feel like it's an interesting little art piece.
Marc:He's a great director.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what are these things, these Moonboy things?
Guest:Oh, that's my show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, that's a show that myself and my friend Nick Murphy wrote based on us kind of growing up.
Marc:But these are based on books that you wrote or the books were after?
Guest:The books were after.
Guest:So we did three seasons of a TV show and then three books.
Guest:Where was it on?
Guest:It was on Sky in Ireland and England.
Guest:And here it's on Hulu.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Guest:I got to check it out.
Marc:It's about your childhood?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's semi-autobiographical about an 11-year-old growing up with an imaginary friend.
Guest:It's for kids?
Guest:It's for families, I would say.
Guest:Oh, that's nice.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Are you going to do more of those?
Guest:I'm going to give it a couple of years and...
Guest:I think maybe pick it up.
Guest:I ran out of stories to tell about an 11-year-old.
Guest:And now I'd like to see how an 18-year-old with an imaginary friend, how fun that might be.
Marc:That's a sadder story.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right, man.
Marc:Well, go do your ADR.
Marc:It was great talking to you.
Marc:Pleasure.
Marc:Thanks for having me.
Marc:Me and Chris O'Dowd.
Marc:Enjoyable human, isn't he?
Marc:Season 2 of Get Shorty returns to Epix on Sunday, August 12th.
Marc:You can see him here and there and other things.
Marc:I like that guy.
Marc:I just like that guy.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Let's play some guitar, man.
Marc:Just a little bit.
Marc:My arm hurts still.
Guest:Boomer lives!