Episode 939 - Jay Leno
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucksters?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:How's everybody doing?
Marc:Hey, you know what?
Marc:It's early.
Marc:Put the drink down.
Marc:Think about it.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:Just take it easy, will you?
Marc:Could you just put the bong down for a second?
Marc:Could you not vape at 10 in the morning?
Marc:Could you not?
Marc:How are you still awake?
Marc:I'm talking to the people that are struggling with...
Marc:addiction, alcoholism, drugs, whatever your thing is.
Marc:Maybe you've been up all night with the porn.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:But if you're struggling and you want to stop it, you just can't because it's like it's 6 a.m.
Marc:and you're still cutting lines.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:Enough already.
Marc:It doesn't age well.
Marc:It doesn't get any different.
Marc:It doesn't get any better.
Marc:It's going to be the same thing over and over again.
Marc:Whatever it is that you are compulsively doing on a daily basis to alter your perception or feel better or reward yourself somehow, that's all lost after the first hour or two.
Marc:And then it's just a chase, man.
Marc:It's just a chase.
Marc:Maybe it's distracting you.
Marc:Maybe it's...
Marc:Maybe it's making you feel well.
Marc:But God, let's reel it in.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:What do I got to tell you?
Marc:Go to a meeting.
Marc:Don't worry about the God part.
Marc:Just go.
Marc:Just do something.
Marc:Come on, man.
Marc:Life is short enough the way it is.
Marc:And I'm telling you, it ain't going to change.
Marc:If you keep doing it, just not.
Marc:It's going to be the same.
Marc:All right.
Marc:That's enough.
Marc:Now I'm going to talk to the other people.
Marc:How's everyone else doing?
Marc:How's the bike ride?
Marc:Good.
Marc:How's the exercise going?
Marc:Good.
Marc:Good.
Marc:How's the dog walking?
Marc:Say hi to your doggie for me.
Marc:Terrific.
Marc:You okay at work there?
Marc:You got set up?
Marc:You set up?
Marc:You got your coffee and everything?
Marc:How's the painting?
Marc:How's the shoemaking?
Marc:How's the silversmithing?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:You working with clay?
Marc:Is it clay?
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Hey, Dimension on Marc Maron.
Marc:Dimension today.
Marc:No, I didn't.
Marc:I know I didn't because I know exactly what I've been talking about today on the show.
Marc:Jay Leno came over.
Marc:He was in a very shiny Corvair.
Marc:I don't know what year it is, but those are always interesting cars to see around.
Marc:It was red.
Marc:It was beautifully painted.
Marc:Nicely done.
Marc:A Corvair.
Marc:I don't know when they made those.
Marc:Probably in the mid to late 60s.
Marc:I'm guessing the Corvair was sort of a... Not a Corvette.
Marc:I think it was made by Chevy.
Marc:I'm not a car guy.
Marc:So that's not what we were talking about, me and Jay.
Marc:Not much anyways.
Marc:I did buy a car though.
Marc:I bought a new car.
Marc:I did.
Marc:I bought a new car.
Marc:But let me...
Marc:I guess there's a lot to talk about.
Marc:Saturday, November 10th at 7.30 p.m., I will be playing the Beacon Theater as part of the New York Comedy Festival.
Marc:Presale tickets go on sale this Wednesday, August 8th at 11 a.m.
Marc:Eastern through Sunday, August 12th at 10 p.m.
Marc:Get them at nycomedyfestival.com.
Marc:The presale code is T-N-Y-C-F.
Marc:The general on-sale date is Monday, August 13th at 10 a.m.
Marc:Eastern.
Marc:And I've got other dates coming up.
Marc:You can go to wtfpod.com slash tour.
Marc:I'm going to Bloomington, Indiana.
Marc:I'm going to Denver, Colorado.
Marc:I'm going to Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Marc:I'm going to Phoenix for a night.
Marc:But New York Comedy Festival, Beacon Theater, very exciting.
Marc:It's one of the reasons I've been going out and hitting the clubs, doing several shows in a row, hammering it out, finding the through lines, riffing it.
Marc:So I can get it all into one piece of my mind before the big show in November.
Marc:So that's why I was in Salt Lake City.
Marc:I go there once a year or so, I believe.
Marc:I've been to Wise Guys many times in different locations.
Marc:The downtown location seems to have stuck.
Marc:It's an odd room.
Marc:But it's a good room, and we had a good time.
Marc:It's always a little tweaky for me in Salt Lake City.
Marc:I really do want to thank the people for coming out because I really feel that everybody that I could possibly draw comes out to see me in Salt Lake City.
Marc:That's about 1,000 people.
Marc:Did four shows.
Marc:I think the room seats 250 and change.
Marc:But there's something about the weird sort of mystical and cultural balance of Salt Lake City.
Marc:That is very provocative to me.
Marc:I'm compulsively interested in kind of the religious.
Marc:And I'm not always cynical.
Marc:I'm not always negative.
Marc:But the Mormons are a very specific bunch.
Marc:And it's just interesting to be in that city knowing that it's all there, knowing it was built by them, knowing that it's, you know, you can go to the place where the thing happened and where things do happen.
Marc:And then there's, you know, it extends out into who knows what.
Marc:They know, but it's just a mysterious thing.
Marc:And then there's the people that aren't that.
Marc:And then there's the people that used to be that.
Marc:And then there's 100 degree heat.
Marc:And then there's the altitude.
Marc:And I just find myself wandering the sterile streets of downtown Salt Lake City, almost in a kind of in movement meditation.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But I do get tripped out.
Marc:Even flying in, you fly into Salt Lake, you look out.
Marc:On one side, it's beautiful mountains.
Marc:On the other side, I really believe it's drying up.
Marc:The Great Salt Lake is drying up.
Marc:And then there's all these weird swampy-looking tide pools in the middle of the desert with, I don't know, some sort of very persistent algae.
Marc:The persistent green in the middle of the desert in the salt tide pools near the Salt Lake.
Marc:It's definitely post-apocalyptic.
Marc:It almost looks like...
Marc:It looks like the last water source on Earth.
Marc:It looks like that that's the only water left on Earth.
Marc:And there's a roaming crew of sort of humans and just like beat up, maybe not quite road warrior, but maybe sort of more Bedouin with modern pieces of appliances wandering.
Marc:And the Great Salt Lake looks like the water they come upon.
Marc:And they're so relieved that they finally found it and then they taste it and they're like, oh, fuck.
Marc:Too salty.
Marc:And that's the way it ends.
Marc:That's the way that tale ends.
Marc:But point being, I tend to get pretty far out there.
Marc:And I'm glad that the audiences were supportive because that second show Saturday, that was trippy.
Marc:That was trippy.
Marc:And I enjoyed being there.
Marc:So thank you for having me, Salt Lake.
Marc:Although I'm not a sanctioned Mormon act, I don't believe that the ones that came minded.
Marc:One person tweeted at me that my current Mike Pence bit went a little too far and ruined he and his wife's evening.
Marc:And I kind of apologize for that.
Marc:And maybe I should have warned you, but there's really no way to warn anybody about that bit.
Marc:I don't know where it came from.
Marc:It's some old school kind of like Rabelazian filth that I've hammered the vice president into now.
Marc:It's a piece, man.
Marc:It's a piece.
Marc:And I understand.
Marc:I try to explain how I understand that it could be offensive.
Marc:And I try to negotiate that because I do like to be a bit diplomatic in these things.
Marc:So Jay Leno.
Marc:I didn't think I'd be talking to him.
Marc:I just didn't assume it would ever happen.
Marc:It didn't happen back when things were lively for Jay in both the good and the bad ways.
Marc:But it didn't happen.
Marc:It just never came up.
Marc:I mean, many of you who listen to the show...
Marc:You know that I did The Tonight Show towards the end of The Tonight Show.
Marc:I think it was for the first season of Globe, maybe the last season of Marin.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:But he invited me.
Marc:I decided to do it.
Marc:I'd never done The Tonight Show.
Marc:I didn't know if The Tonight Show was going to be in existence anymore.
Marc:And I don't need to make excuses.
Marc:I did Jay Leno's Tonight Show to see what it would be like.
Marc:And it was odd because Jay came into my dressing room before the...
Marc:the spot he was in his Canadian tuxedo as usual and he he kind of talked to me for like a half hour about how he thought I didn't like him how he thought I was a Conan guy how he assumed that you know that that that I just didn't want to do the show and and whatnot but his point really was like he went out of his way to say you're a comic I'm a comic we're comics we're comics right yes we are we were comics at heart we are comics that is what we are made of comedians are of a certain cut of a certain cloth especially the lifers
Marc:And I'm certainly a lifer, as is Jay.
Marc:So, whatever else you do, you're a comic.
Marc:And people know who you are.
Marc:I mean, I'm saying comics, you know who I'm talking about.
Marc:I might be talking about you.
Marc:There are people that are passing through.
Marc:And then there are lifers.
Marc:So...
Marc:Point being, what I got out of that conversation was that Jay was, I don't know if I would say upset, but he knew that most of the comics had pulled away in terms of their respect for him for whatever reason.
Marc:And I know what the reasons are.
Marc:And there's been a few over time.
Marc:And so when I got the opportunity to have Jay on the show, I thought that, well, I don't have anything to lose and I have respect in place for him, but I also have questions about the choices he made and maybe he'll talk about it.
Marc:And that's what I set out to do with this interview.
Marc:Because when I was younger, Jay Leno was one of the funniest guys alive.
Marc:I mean, when I was a kid in my teens, watching the daytime shows after school, Merv Griffin, Mike Douglas, whatever the hell it was,
Marc:You know, Jay would be there and he would be funny.
Marc:And when I went at the original Letterman show, which I started watching at the beginning in college, Jay was pretty much on four or five times a year at least.
Marc:And he was funny.
Marc:He was a great comedian.
Marc:And then I remember in college, I came out to L.A.
Marc:one summer with my friend Steve Brill after maybe it's probably after sophomore year.
Marc:We went to the improv.
Marc:I saw Jay Leno and he was fucking funny.
Marc:And I remembered a joke he did kind of halfway almost.
Marc:And it's very interesting.
Marc:You'll listen in the interview.
Marc:I mean, that had to have been 1984, 83.
Marc:And I reminded him of the joke that I could barely remember, though I remember the punchline.
Marc:He remembered the joke.
Marc:Got a mind like a steel trap, that guy.
Marc:But really what I wanted to talk about is that I think the first shift in the comedian's perception of Jay was when he took The Tonight Show and what he did with it.
Marc:You know, it went from Johnny, who we all thought was a class act.
Marc:It was really Johnny Carson was very important to comics.
Marc:He was very important to Jay.
Marc:And there was like, you know, the whole fight between Letterman and Jay.
Marc:Johnny thought that Letterman should get it.
Marc:And then there was, you know, whatever the story is, you know, the story it's available.
Marc:It's in a book.
Marc:about what went on between Jay and Dave and how Jay got the show over Dave.
Marc:And, you know, that was a sticking point because I was a Dave guy.
Marc:Thought Dave deserved it.
Marc:He'd earned it.
Marc:He'd worked for it.
Marc:So that was the first shot for me.
Marc:And I can't assume...
Marc:to know what other comics are but for me being a dave guy but loving jay as a comedian thought dave deserved the tonight show and jay took the tonight show and what was once a classy though schmaltzy outlet or show uh you know he made into a circus you know and there i just remember being very critical of it at the time and you know and just like him touching the audience and running around it just like it just felt like it went
Marc:Just a little low rent in a way, or just mediocre, whatever.
Marc:So then you got to deal with Jay hosting this show that you thought Dave should have gotten.
Marc:And then Jay's processing jokes.
Marc:He's got to do monologues.
Marc:So he's not doing the type of material that he necessarily did as a solo act.
Marc:He's churning through a lot of jokes.
Marc:They're okay.
Marc:He doesn't seem to quite fit the suit or the screen for a few years.
Marc:But that was the first couple of hits.
Marc:Is that...
Marc:We felt like he took the show from Dave, then he was on the show, and then he sort of degraded himself in the show in terms of the content being a little lowbrow, or I guess that's the word.
Marc:And that was a big hit.
Marc:And then a lot of us were like, well, I don't know, man.
Marc:And then Bill Hicks did a sort of, you know, seminal, is that the right word, bit about Jay selling out on the Doritos commercials.
Marc:And, you know, we were all, you know, a lot of us were Bill Hicks people.
Marc:And, you know, Bill Hicks was a sort of enlightened, genius, lyrical kind of joke person.
Marc:puncher uh you know really uh you know it had a lot of guts and had a lot of insight and really could nail it in a way that no one else could and he nailed jay and that stuck that stuck with a lot of comics you know then there's a second wave of this you know the conan debacle so i imagine so many people who aren't my age or don't remember those earlier sort of um jay leno events you remember the conan event conan was uh contracted to begin the tonight show
Marc:And Jay was contracted to leave it.
Marc:It seems that he didn't necessarily want to leave, but certainly that was what the paperwork said that he had to do.
Marc:And Conan went and got his job.
Marc:And he got on The Tonight Show and he did Conan.
Marc:He did the Conan thing.
Marc:Now, Conan's another guy, been very good to me.
Marc:Since the mid-90s, Conan used to, throughout the New York run of that show,
Marc:Conan put me on three or four times a year as a panel guest, which was my dream, because I wanted to be like Jay was on Dave.
Marc:I wanted to be like Richard Lewis was on Dave.
Marc:I wanted to be like George Miller was on Dave.
Marc:I wanted to be a guy that sat down and had that relationship with the host.
Marc:And Conan did that for me over and over again.
Marc:I owe a great deal to Conan in terms of, you know, giving me some exposure.
Marc:It didn't really amount to ticket sales, but that was probably my fault over those years.
Marc:Clearly.
Marc:But nonetheless, you know, I was excited for Conan to get the Tonight Show and he got it.
Marc:The issue with Jay at that point was that Tonight Show was sort of tanking with Conan.
Marc:The numbers weren't great.
Marc:They weren't picking up.
Marc:So they panicked and Zucker, I guess it was, wanted to push the Tonight Show up to midnight.
Marc:And, you know, have Jay do an hour or whatever it was, Jay was back in it.
Marc:Jimmy Kimmel spoke out against it.
Marc:You know, many of us were sort of flabbergasted and upset by the whole thing, like give the guy a chance.
Marc:But eventually Conan resigned, was pushed out as opposed to go do the Tonight Show at midnight and Jay came back.
Marc:And was there for however many years that was.
Marc:So that was really strike three in terms of the comic or certain comics respect for him, certain parts of the community.
Marc:Not everybody, but this is just my recalling of it.
Marc:So these were the transgressions or whatever they were, the things that chipped away at Jay Statcher as the great comic that he once was, because he was.
Marc:The 80s, that was the early 80s, man.
Marc:He was the fucking guy.
Marc:Good jokes.
Marc:And he's out there doing it still, just doing jokes and driving cars around.
Marc:So I took the opportunity to talk to him, and I'm glad I did.
Marc:And you'll hear that in a second.
Marc:I do need to tell you that he's got a new show, Jay Leno's Garage.
Marc:It airs Thursday nights at 10 p.m.
Marc:on CNBC.
Marc:You can also watch full episodes at CNBC.com and on YouTube.
Marc:And it was interesting.
Marc:It was interesting to be sitting in here with Jay Leno.
Marc:This is comic stuff, man.
Guest:So this is me and Jay.
Marc:How do you feel, Jay?
Guest:Good.
Guest:I feel really good.
Guest:You do?
Marc:What have you been doing?
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:I'm on the road a lot.
Guest:I do that Jay Leno's Garage show.
Guest:We got an Emmy nomination this week, so that's good.
Guest:That's exciting.
Guest:Yeah, we do 52 shows on YouTube, and then we do 16 one-hours on CNBC.
Marc:And what's the structure?
Marc:How is it different than the other guy's car show?
Marc:Seinfeld's cars.
Guest:Well, Jerry's is more talking with comedians in cars.
Guest:Mars, we feature more on the cars.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, on the TV show on CNBC, the YouTube show is more technical.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The CNBC show, we do stunts, crash cars, roll cars, do all kinds of stuff.
Marc:So you're working with stunt people, working with car experts.
Marc:Yeah, that kind of stuff.
Marc:Blowing shit up sometimes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Blowing shit up.
Marc:Yeah, anything like that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you don't ruin any nice cars, though, do you?
Marc:No, not really.
Marc:No?
Marc:How many cars do you have now?
Guest:Oh, man, you sound like my wife.
Marc:Hey, really?
Guest:There's about 186 cars, about 163 motorcycles.
Marc:You keep a count.
Marc:You know exactly how many.
Guest:I know exactly.
Guest:That's how you do it.
Guest:But do you like spending the whole day down there with them?
Guest:You know, that's what I like to do.
Guest:I grew up in a rural area, and you always had to fix something, lawnmowers and old motorcycles.
Guest:And, you know, when we were 12, we had an old Renault 4CV.
Guest:We used to drive around the backyard.
Guest:My mom would watch us through the window.
Guest:You know, now, of course, they call child services, and your parents are taken away.
Guest:But back then, you know, they allowed kids to have a certain amount of responsibility.
Guest:But where was that?
Guest:That was in Andover?
Guest:Andover, Mass., yeah.
Guest:I guess it is kind of rural, huh?
Guest:It was then.
Guest:Now it's like, that was before Route 93 went in.
Guest:It used to take 45 minutes to an hour to get there.
Guest:Now it's 20 minutes.
Guest:So now it's like a bedroom community.
Guest:You know, you got the $5 chocolate chip cookie and the Starbucks.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And you grew up the whole time there?
Marc:Like, it was your whole childhood?
Guest:Well, I was born in New York, lived there until I was nine, then we moved to Massachusetts.
Guest:It's funny, I only lived in New England...
Guest:10 years, 9 to 19.
Guest:But it seems like 80% of my life.
Guest:It feels like you got the accent anyways, isn't it?
Guest:I didn't get as bad as some.
Guest:I didn't get that... To me, the funniest scene in any movie is in the first Ted.
Guest:And they show...
Guest:It takes place in Boston, and you see this beautiful woman walk in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's got some kind of supermodel body.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:You know, whatever the height of fashion and tasteful clothes are.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's got this, and she's beautiful with the high cheekbones.
Guest:The guy's saying, what are you fucking retard?
Guest:You fucking asshole?
Guest:And it just, it's just that Boston accent.
Guest:It just killed.
Guest:I literally fell out of my chair.
Guest:It really made me, what are you fucking asshole?
Marc:Hilarious.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, you know, having spent time there, because I started doing comedy there, too, is like, there's nothing like it.
Marc:There's nothing like the... The people are all pretty good people, but it's pretty rough.
Guest:It's all good people, but it's weird, because it's the only town that's liberal and racist.
Guest:Well, yeah, because of the colleges, and then you get a little outside of Boston, and it's kind of nice to... Well, it's funny, because you have MIT, Harvard on this end, and the other end, you got Southie, and so you have this intellectual, anti-intellectual...
Guest:clash all the time yeah and you have it's not that they're dumb i don't mean dumb people it's just people that live by their hands that live by their wits yeah uh that work for a living versus people who think for a living and then not saying one is better than the other and that's how old people know that i don't mean it that way it's just it's you know the analogy to me is uh
Guest:in the rodney dangerfield movie yeah i think it's back to school yeah where the professor's teaching how do you build a building yeah and then rodney goes yeah but then you got the union guy you got to slip him a hundred bucks and how about the other guy and the other guy comes hey you know rodney's got all the ways to get the real way to get it done you know and that's that's that's boston and that that's to be where all the kids turn to him and start taking notes yeah that's that's the that's the funniest oh yeah what do you do when the union rep comes and you got to slip him a grand you know blah blah blah very funny
Marc:Do you remember him?
Marc:Did you know him?
Marc:I love Rodney.
Marc:You know what's weird, Jay, is that in retrospect, he doesn't get the respect he deserves.
Marc:Like, I mean, like he, you know, people talk about him, but, you know, he should be always talked about as one of the greats.
Guest:He is one of the greats.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember the dumbest review ever.
Guest:Rodney was at the comedy store once in the main room.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the LA Times reviewer was obviously somebody new.
Guest:And the reviewer said, Mr. Dangerfield has an annoying habit of constantly touching his tie and moving it.
Guest:You know, why doesn't he get a shirt?
Guest:He missed the whole point of it.
Guest:When was that, the 70s?
Guest:Oh, yeah, the 70s, early 80s.
Guest:I'll tell you my favorite Rodney story.
Guest:Rodney, well, first time, Rodney was on The Tonight Show, and he's doing his act.
Guest:With you or with Johnny?
Guest:With me, with you.
Guest:Because I used to love him with Johnny because Johnny would just repeat one word.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I went to the store the other day.
Guest:He went to the store.
Guest:Went to the store.
Guest:Oh, I'll tell you, Dana.
Guest:And the guy there.
Guest:And what happened?
Guest:So whenever Rodney would call me, I'd love to do that.
Guest:I'd love to go, things are going wrong.
Guest:Not good at all.
Guest:Not good?
Guest:Oh, not good at all.
Guest:And he'd just repeat the last two words that he said.
Guest:So anyway, he's doing his act.
Guest:And I noticed he...
Guest:twitches.
Guest:And I go, well, that's not part of it.
Guest:And I called Debbie, my producer, over and I said, look, I don't want to panic anybody.
Guest:I think Rodney's having a stroke.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I said, just call paramedics.
Guest:Can they get home?
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So I called paramedics and Rodney sits down and he's a little out of breath and looks, he's okay, but he just looked a little...
Guest:off he's you know that you know that millisecond it's amount of time if you're a comic you can't measure it but you know it's just off right you know so then they come in and they say running well i'm fine i'm fine i tell you you know that's it well he did have a stroke he took him in the hospital really yeah okay so then joan and i got to be good friends after that that's his wife and then years later when rodney was in a coma in the hospital i went to see him yeah it was right before he died yeah
Guest:And John said, Jay, Rodney can't speak or say anything, but I think he can hear you.
Guest:I said, okay, okay.
Guest:How you doing, Rodney?
Guest:You know, blah, blah.
Guest:I love you, man, all that kind of stuff.
Guest:So she says to me, she says, Rodney, Jay, put your finger in Rodney's hand.
Guest:She goes, Rodney, if you know it's Jay, squeeze his finger.
Guest:So he's squeezing my finger, and I go, Rodney, that's not my finger.
Guest:And he twitched.
Guest:And he said, I think he's trying to laugh.
Guest:And it really made me feel good that I made Rodney laugh before he did.
Guest:I mean, it really touched me that he reacted that way.
Guest:So it was really funny.
Guest:That's hilarious.
Guest:You know, he was one of the greats.
Guest:I used to play Danger Fields.
Guest:In New York?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That dark, weird room?
Guest:My wife and I would sleep in the storeroom in the back where all the cans of...
Guest:Spaghetti songs and everything piled up.
Guest:That's where we lived for the two weeks that I played Rodney.
Guest:And it's so funny because Rodney was hardly ever there.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:And people would come to the front.
Guest:Is Rodney here tonight?
Guest:I think, Bob is Rodney.
Guest:He may be it.
Guest:Yeah, he may be in late.
Guest:I think he will be.
Guest:And then they get the 50-minute cover.
Marc:So you're up in Andover.
Marc:And what gets you into comedy originally?
Marc:And how did you not end up doing it there?
Marc:You know all those guys, right?
Guest:I did do it.
Guest:You're a little older than them, I think.
Guest:I did do it in Boston.
Guest:But, you know, I quickly learned in Boston.
Marc:What was the show?
Marc:What clubs were there?
Guest:Well, I used to work.
Marc:Nick's wasn't there, was he?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I played the Playboy Club.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I played Lenny's on the Turnpike.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was a funny club.
Guest:And I played a lot of the strip joints.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Because that's what comics were at strip joints.
Marc:Wait, late 60s, are we talking?
Guest:I started in 69.
Guest:I was working the clubs in 70, 71.
Guest:And I learned real fast, if you stay in Boston, you wind up with a Boston act.
Guest:Hey, how about that Mayor White, eh?
Guest:And then you go somewhere else and nobody knows about him.
Guest:So I realized...
Guest:As soon as you get kind of popular somewhere, just get out of there.
Guest:A lot of the Boston guys made them so they could just stay in there.
Guest:And they'd make $1,000 a weekend in Boston.
Guest:Then they'd go to Connecticut and make $200.
Guest:And they'd go, why should I go to Connecticut?
Guest:Nobody knows me here.
Guest:So they'd just stay.
Guest:To me, as soon as I started to get a little...
Guest:heat going, I would go to the next place.
Guest:So, I used to drive to the improv in New York, not every night, but at least three or four nights a week.
Marc:From Andover?
Marc:Yeah, from Boston, yeah.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:You were living in Boston at the time?
Marc:Yeah, to go on at the improv, yeah.
Marc:So, what, you'd set out at like, what, six?
Marc:And then just...
Guest:Yeah, set out at 6, 7, get there about 10, went around for a couple hours.
Guest:And that was when Bud had it.
Guest:That's when Bud had it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, it was a magical place.
Marc:The improv.
Marc:I performed there at the end when Silver had it and it was sort of on its way out.
Marc:You know, it was just- Missing a letter on the wall.
Guest:I had never even met another comedian.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, I thought I was the only guy in the world doing this.
Marc:Up in Boston?
Guest:Yeah, you just didn't meet, you know, it was a, Boston was a, I would hear my mother's friends say, you know, Kathy's boy, Jay's some kind of comedian.
Guest:Oh, that's so sweet.
Guest:I mean, you know, it didn't even seem like a viable- Yeah, yeah.
Guest:What is he doing with his life?
Guest:Right, right, yeah.
Guest:It was that.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And then when you went to New York.
Guest:But there were no guys up there then?
Guest:No, what used to happen, I had an apartment in Boston.
Guest:What part?
Guest:Right on 1754 Commonwealth Avenue.
Marc:Where's the cross street?
Guest:Was that up by BC?
Guest:Up near Brookline, yeah, up near BC.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Near Chestnut Hill.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And whenever comedians from out of town came in to do the Playboy Club, they'd stay at my apartment.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I would just put an open invitation.
Guest:Hi, I'm Jay Leno.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Richard Lewis, Billy Crystal, Freddie Prince.
Guest:Freddie Prince sat up all night once with a gun, just fired into the wall and blew a hole from the bedroom into the living room.
Guest:In your apartment?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Just blew a hole into it.
Guest:I'll tell you a funny story about living in Boston.
Guest:You know Commonwealth Avenue.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You have Commonwealth Avenue, and then you have a little strip of grass, and then you have a little street, like an access street.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So one day I come out of my apartment, and I see a refrigerator on the access street that someone has thrown away.
Guest:So I go, oh, man.
Guest:I said, you know something?
Guest:They should bust the door off of that.
Guest:A kid gets in there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I go to my apartment.
Guest:I get my hammer.
Guest:Bang, bang.
Guest:I smash the hands.
Guest:I bend the door.
Guest:I bend it all the way back.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And I slam at it.
Guest:It won't shut.
Guest:Great.
Guest:I did my good deed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I got to my apartment.
Guest:I come downstairs about a half hour later this morning.
Guest:We'll be crying in the sky.
Guest:Hey, hey, you live around here?
Guest:I said, yeah, I live there.
Guest:You see somebody smashing his refrigerator?
Guest:What?
Guest:It's a refrigerator.
Guest:I said, it's an old refrigerator.
Guest:I throw it away.
Guest:It's not old.
Guest:We're just moving in.
Guest:It's a brand new goddamn refrigerator.
Guest:And I look at it and I realize, oh, it is a brand new refrigerator.
Guest:I went, oh, maybe somebody thought it was something.
Guest:We'll take that.
Guest:It's brand new.
Guest:No!
Guest:I said, no, I didn't see anything.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:Yeah, that was pretty stupid.
Marc:That was good.
Marc:So the first time you met a lot of the guys was at your house, in your apartment, because they were in town.
Marc:What were you, a house emcee, or you just always worked there?
Guest:No, I wasn't house emcee.
Guest:There was no... The Playboy Club, you had to do six shows a night.
Guest:You had the Playmate room and the Playboy room.
Guest:Where was it, downtown?
Guest:Downtown, yeah.
Guest:And each room held about...
Guest:350, 400.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And while the singer was opening downstairs, used to be closing upstairs, so I'd always pass these singers with big sweat stains under the rock because they'd have to carry the band's instruments up and down between three flights.
Guest:You know, mascara running there in tears.
Guest:It's 100 degrees.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember Freddie Prince when he stayed with me.
Guest:That's when Nixon, the whole thing with Watergate was going on.
Guest:And Freddie's doing his act and, you know, putting down, the guy said, it's the president.
Guest:And then Freddie said, oh, Nixon doesn't fuck.
Guest:He sucks.
Guest:Okay, quiet.
Guest:This guy takes out the gun, fires two shots over Freddie's head.
Guest:In the club?
Guest:In the club.
Guest:And the whole band dives down.
Guest:People are screaming.
Guest:Everybody's running every direction.
Guest:They grab the guy.
Guest:They throw him out.
Guest:Yeah, it was a pretty crazy time.
Marc:Well, how did you avoid getting drafted or whatever?
Guest:I just had a high number.
Guest:You did?
Guest:If I got drafted, I would have gotten drafted.
Guest:I was number 278.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And did you have people in the family that went?
Guest:My brother was in Vietnam.
Guest:Yeah, my brother volunteered.
Guest:My brother went to military school.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he was a soldier, yeah.
Marc:And when he came back, did you get a sense that he was disillusioned with it?
Guest:No, my brother did aerial reconnaissance and his job was to examine photos and look for targets and that kind of stuff.
Guest:My brother went to military school.
Guest:He went to Yale.
Guest:Then he was a soldier.
Guest:So those guys got a little treat a little bit better and not so much.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So he didn't have a sense of it.
Guest:No, my brother liked being a soldier.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what about your folks?
Marc:They lived a long time, right?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, my parents lived on... You know, I have a really old family.
Guest:My father was born in... My grandfather was born in 1857, before the Civil War.
Guest:And my dad was born in 1910.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So my parents were always... Old.
Guest:Old, yeah.
Guest:I mean, always old.
Marc:Your memory... Your first memory is that they're old.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I realize when I look at pictures...
Guest:I realize I was 18 just about the age I am now.
Guest:My dad was my age when I was 18.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But he seems so old to me.
Guest:How old are you?
Guest:I'm 68.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You look good.
Guest:Yeah, it's all right.
Guest:I'm doing all right.
Marc:So, okay, so you're kicking around doing the Playboy Club, Richard Lewis and all those guys.
Marc:That's when you first meet them.
Marc:You're going down the improv.
Marc:So that place, at that time, who were you seeing?
Marc:What was the deal?
Marc:What was your relationship with Bud?
Guest:I was working for a foreign car dealership.
Guest:I was working for Foreign Motors of Boston.
Guest:So what would happen- Selling what?
Guest:Then we had Rolls Royce, Mercedes-Benz, Citroën, a lot of bunch of foreign cars.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Rolls Royces and Mercedes would come into the docks in Elizabeth, New Jersey.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:So I would either fly down and take the bus down, pick one up and drive it back.
Guest:So I'd always stop at the improv and do a set.
Guest:In the car?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Bud would see this kid pull up in a Rolls and go, whoa, this must be like the richest kid.
Guest:So he always gave me... It took a couple of days before he realized what was going on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But one time I went down there to...
Guest:A guy had bought a Rolls Royce.
Guest:He gave me $35,000 in a paper bag.
Guest:That's what a Rolls cost back then.
Guest:Okay, I had it in a paper bag.
Guest:How many you got?
Guest:I don't have any Rolls.
Guest:And I picked up another Rolls and I drove it.
Guest:Instead of coming back to Boston, I think I'll stop at the improv and do a set.
Guest:So I stopped at the Improv, do a set, you know, I got the 35 grand in the paper bag, and they take it with me on stage, and I put it on the piano.
Guest:And I do my set, and it was one of those nights, everything's killing, ooh, I come out, oh man, I'm driving back, I'm listening to the set, you know, and I hit the toll booth in Jersey, and I go,
Guest:Where's the paper?
Guest:Fuck, I realized I left it on the piano.
Guest:You did.
Guest:So I turn around, and it's now 1.30 in the morning, and there's some singers on stage.
Guest:Mountain greenery.
Guest:Like eight people.
Guest:I look around, and I see the bag still on the piano.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:So I go up, and I, excuse me.
Guest:Fuck, I forgot my lunch.
Guest:Sorry.
Guest:But I'd just be getting out of jail now if I had lost that money.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, it was pretty crazy.
Marc:That feeling when he went back into that room and saw the bag still there, that must have been a good feeling.
Guest:It was a very good feeling.
Guest:To me, there's nothing like being a stand-up, you know?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I mean, like when I watch Michelle Wolf,
Guest:I love the fact that she loves to perform.
Guest:I mean, I can tell she can't wait to tell a joke, to write a joke, and tell a joke.
Guest:I mean, there's such an enthusiasm.
Guest:Whether you like her or not, I like her.
Guest:I hear people go one way there.
Guest:But just the fact that she revels in being a comedian.
Guest:I mean, she's so anxious to get out there.
Guest:She's like...
Guest:an athlete.
Guest:She runs out and she punches those jokes and some work and some don't like all of us do, but she really enjoys that.
Guest:I don't see a lot of angst.
Guest:I don't see a lot of, she has a look on her face like, why the fuck was I ever writing for anybody else?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Oh, now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And I, I, I really like it when I see comedians have that joy.
Guest:Cause to me, to me, it's the greatest job in the world.
Guest:Whenever I meet comics that go,
Guest:I'm going to do stand-up for a while.
Guest:I'm going to get a sitcom.
Guest:Please, don't flatter yourself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Is that still the model?
Guest:Where are they going to get a sitcom?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Jerry Seinfeld is the guy that put that dream in a lot of people's heads.
Guest:You get the development deal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like Paul Reiser was the first comic to marry a waitress from a comedy club.
Guest:Then every other waitress in comedy, well, I got everything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:His wife Paul is great.
Guest:That's what he started?
Guest:She worked at the club.
Guest:Now she's a psychologist, very successful, but it's just funny.
Marc:So did you move to New York eventually?
Guest:I didn't move.
Guest:I stayed with a friend, Mike Preminger and some other people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was one of those deals.
Guest:And I just stayed in New York a lot and commuted back and forth.
Marc:So it was just the improv and then there was like the nightclubs downtown?
Marc:It was Catch a Rising Star.
Guest:But that was already up?
Guest:Yeah, that was up and running.
Guest:There were a few other clubs around.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was great, you know?
Guest:You know, when I watch this show, I'm dying up here, whatever it is.
Guest:I really can't watch it because there's no joy.
Guest:I go, what's all the angst?
Guest:I mean, we love performing.
Guest:I mean, of course, there were petty jealousies and shit like that.
Marc:Well, that's all based on the store, right?
Marc:So, like, the New York thing was different, right?
Marc:But you were at the store at that time.
Guest:No, but I was at the store, too, and...
Guest:we we couldn't we watched each other's sets we went with each other to the tonight show when you when you watch my first tonight show you hear robin you hear that laughing in the back you hear us laughing when he did it i mean we used to go with each other to merv griffin and mike douglas so so what's it what's the journey then for you so you're in boston you're going to new york you're doing the thing right and who's who's working in new york at that time
Guest:Richard Lewis.
Guest:I remember I went to New York, and for some reason, I picked up a copy of the Bergen County News, which is a weekly New Jersey paper.
Guest:And it had comedian Rich Lewis, local boy, to appear on Good Day New Jersey or something.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Guest:That's the guy I saw at the, you know, I saw him, oh my God.
Guest:And then I saw him that night and I said, hey, I saw you in the paper.
Guest:I said, what a town this is.
Guest:Five minutes and you get to be in the newspaper.
Guest:It just seemed like a huge deal.
Guest:But I would commute back and forth.
Guest:And one day I was sitting in Boston and
Marc:But who were the guys?
Marc:Is it you and Richard Lewis and what, Bob Altman was there?
Marc:Like, who was hanging around?
Guest:Yeah, Lewis, Elaine Boosler.
Marc:Before they came out here.
Guest:Before they came.
Guest:Yeah, because everything was in New York.
Guest:Don't forget, Johnny was in New York.
Guest:The Tonight Show was in New York.
Guest:In this 1970?
Guest:Yeah, Merv Griffin was in New York.
Guest:Mike Douglas was in Philadelphia.
Guest:You know, variety shows were out here, but there weren't talk shows.
Guest:When Johnny moved, that's when the whole thing changed.
Guest:What year was that?
Guest:That was 71, I think it was.
Guest:He came out here.
Guest:Oh, no kidding.
Guest:And I remember...
Guest:I remember sitting in my apartment in Boston, and I had friends of mine that were like graduating college and become realtors or whatever it is, or lawyers, and they were buying cars and having nice stuff, and I was still kind of living hand to mouth.
Guest:And I said to myself, you know, if I don't go to LA right now,
Guest:I'm going to want to buy stuff.
Guest:I'm going to want to have a nicer place.
Guest:I'm going to live here in Bach.
Guest:And I knocked on the door next door and I told my neighbor who was in front of me, take anything you want out of my apartment.
Guest:I'm leaving.
Guest:I'm going to LA right now.
Guest:And I just left.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I slept on the stair, the back stairs of the comedy store the first week.
Marc:That's what you did when you got out there.
Marc:How'd you know to go there?
Guest:I just... You know what it is?
Guest:I got off the plane.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I had $50.
Guest:And I said to the cab driver, take me to the Sunset Strip.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He said, how much you got?
Guest:I said, you got 50 bucks?
Guest:Yeah, okay.
Guest:So he drops me off at Sunset and Western.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's what $50 got you from LA.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I got out and I go, this doesn't look like... Not fun.
Guest:Yeah, I'm thinking, okay, what's your address at the Comedy Store?
Guest:The Ralphs?
Guest:Comedy Store is like 7,000 Sunset.
Guest:I'm at 300 Sunset.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I had like a nine mile walk and just trying to hitchhike and you didn't really hitchhike in LA.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So.
Marc:Not even in 1971 or whatever.
Marc:You could try.
Guest:What was it?
Guest:71, 72?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:70, 71.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I got to the comedy store and I met Mitzi and everybody and you know, it was like.
Guest:But you slept there on the back?
Guest:On the back step.
Guest:So Sammy was still there.
Guest:No?
Guest:No, Sammy wasn't there.
Guest:I was still in college, so I would be out here during the summer.
Guest:I graduated.
Guest:Where'd you go?
Guest:I went to Emerson.
Guest:I graduated college in 73, but I would come out here every vacation.
Guest:I would come out here.
Guest:It was 73 when I actually moved, but I was out here a lot.
Guest:I would stay with George Miller was a friend.
Marc:He was a good guy.
Marc:And Emerson at that time, because a lot of guys came out of Emerson, I think they actually teach stand-up comedy there.
Marc:Now they do, but then they didn't.
Marc:What was it, just a regular college or was it still?
Guest:It was a regular college.
Guest:I was dyslexic.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Are you still dyslexic?
Guest:Yeah, somewhat.
Guest:How does that manifest itself?
Guest:It's okay.
Guest:So I just try to memorize stuff.
Guest:So I remember looking through the course things at Emerson.
Guest:So speech therapy.
Guest:Each student who required to give a 20-minute talk at the end of the semester, well, I can talk for 20 minutes.
Guest:Shit, that's easy enough.
Guest:I don't have any interest in speech therapy.
Guest:But I see other people go, oh, my God, I can't talk for 20 minutes.
Guest:I can't do it.
Guest:It's a horrible talk for 20 minutes.
Guest:I said, well, that's easy enough.
Guest:And so I managed to get through, and I gave my parents the degree when I graduated.
Guest:And that's when I permanently moved here.
Marc:But is that what sort of inspired you to do stand-up, was talking to, you know, in college?
Marc:It helped.
Marc:Any place you got a chance.
Marc:But, like, what sparked it for you, like, initially?
Marc:What made you decide, like, oh, this is what I'm going to do?
Guest:I decided because in Boston they were literally...
Guest:if not hundreds of colleges.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Close to 100.
Guest:And most students had no money.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they were willing to be entertained by people with no talent, you know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was the kind of thing where, you know, they put a candle in the cafe and they become the two-toe cafe.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was mostly guys with flashlights under their chins going, stop your war machine, man.
Guest:Then lights would go out and it'd be silent and it'd be ooh.
Guest:You know, so the idea of doing comedy really didn't,
Guest:Nobody really was doing much comedy.
Guest:It's really serious stuff.
Guest:So I used to emcee and try to throw some jokes in and, you know, and you go to the next college.
Guest:Well, I emceed down at Chandler last week.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:We can come see MCR show.
Guest:You didn't really make any money.
Guest:Maybe you got 10 bucks or something like that.
Marc:And that's how you started?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I used to go to bars in Boston and I put $50 on the bar and I would say to the bartender, let me go up and tell some jokes.
Guest:If I'm funny, give me my 50 back.
Guest:If I'm not funny and people leave, you keep the 50.
Guest:And they went, oh, okay.
Guest:So a couple of times I lost to 50.
Guest:But for the most times, it was okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or they'd say, here, keep your money, kid.
Guest:We don't really do comedy.
Guest:Don't come back.
Guest:But, you know, just anywhere to get experience.
Marc:Oh, and there was, so there was really no clubs in that.
Guest:There weren't any clubs.
Guest:There were just strip clubs.
Guest:I used to work with a stripper named Lily Pagan.
Guest:I work with a stripper named.
Guest:In the combat zone?
Guest:I Need a Man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And these, you know, it was really interesting because these were women.
Guest:I was 19 to 20.
Guest:They were probably in their 40s.
Guest:Big, strong women.
Guest:And, you know, in those days, you were either a secretary or you worked at the shoe factory.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or you were an educated woman.
Guest:You know, there weren't a lot of job.
Guest:And these women weren't hookers or prostitutes.
Guest:They were just...
Guest:I remember they all had short hair, they'd wear wigs, and we'd go do a gig out at like Fort Devins, and they would take out power tools and put together this giant champagne glass that one of them would take a bath in.
Guest:I would stand there and tell jokes while they did that.
Guest:So one day I'm telling jokes, and this guy says, hey, you suck.
Guest:Hey, kid, you're an asshole.
Guest:And I remember she just gets out of the tub nude, totally covered with it, goes over, punches the guy in the face, breaks his nose.
Guest:The guy's nose literally splits over.
Guest:He's bleeding all over the place.
Guest:He's screaming.
Guest:His friends are going, oh!
Guest:Just hilarious.
Guest:Just really funny.
Guest:I mean, it was great times.
Marc:Great bloody times.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:All right, so you're coming back and forth.
Marc:You meet Mitzi.
Marc:What's the first time you meet Mitzi?
Marc:Because, you know, look, I was a doorman there in the 80s when Sam was big.
Marc:Like, I was there for a couple years.
Guest:You know, Sam's the reason I left.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, Sam would come in with the guns and the coke.
Guest:And, you know, he was...
Guest:he was really good yeah you know he had that primal scream yeah which brought it's like when you see a guy do blues yeah better than anybody else you can't explain why it's better yeah it's just an intensity but then he would come he would come in with this posse after a couple years and there'd be guns and coke and I just said you know something I'm a comedian when this place gets busted I don't want to be downtown yeah and explain I don't do coke so I just I just stopped going you just stayed away
Marc:yeah but you were well it's so but when you first met her in 71 or 72 i mean what what was that what was that scene like because i mean the strip must have been out of control i mean you start you you sound to me like you're kind of a conservative guy but it was a wild time i am a conservative guy um you know she was like your comedy mom i mean that's the funny thing about it you know when that strike happened she was like a mom who couldn't let go
Guest:We love Mitzi.
Guest:I thought she was great.
Guest:She gave us all a chance.
Guest:Very nurturing with everybody.
Guest:Then it got to the point, here's what you should be doing in your act.
Guest:Well, I don't want to do that.
Guest:No, you need to do that if you want to work here.
Guest:It got to that point.
Guest:I remember Jack Grayman.
Guest:She wanted him to change his name to Jackie Bananas and wear a yellow jacket.
Guest:Just making suggestions.
Guest:She was like a mom whose kids are growing up now.
Guest:You can't
Guest:They're 18 now, Mom.
Guest:You can't tell them what to do.
Guest:What'd she tell you to do?
Guest:It's not that she told me to do anything.
Guest:She told me to wear a scarf.
Guest:Did she tell you that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, see, I was also friends with Bud, and she didn't like that.
Guest:So there was a bit of a distance.
Guest:I was one of the few people that could play both clubs.
Guest:That didn't work out for Jimmy Walker.
Guest:No, that didn't work out for a lot of people.
Guest:And she just got possessive.
Guest:And I don't think she was...
Guest:I was always very grateful to her.
Guest:I mean, just for having a place where we could go.
Guest:You know, just to meet other people that were comedians was like, man, I have something I can talk about.
Guest:I don't have to explain to people and watch people roll their eyes when they say I want to be a comic.
Guest:Yeah, okay.
Marc:Like, I mean, I can't, like, I'm trying, I always try to put the history together, and I've read the book, and I've had a couple of the old guys in here.
Marc:But, like, at that time, I mean, you come out there, you don't have agents, you don't have a manager, you're at the comedy store, right?
Marc:And is Letterman there at that time?
Guest:Letterman had showed up, uh...
Guest:Yeah, and Letterman was probably the best wordsmith, to use the word, that I'd ever seen.
Guest:I think he admired my ability to be on stage and not give a shit and just sort of work, and I admired his ability to weave together.
Guest:I remember the first joke that really caught me.
Guest:He said, we here at, you know, he talked about working at a local news station at WKR are diametrically opposed to the use of orphans as yardage markers on public golf courses.
Guest:And he had a whole thing about it.
Guest:And I thought, I just like the lyrical sense of how he put that together.
Guest:So I went up to him and I introduced myself.
Guest:And I said, man, I really like the way you weave this, you tell a story into the pitch.
Guest:And he goes, wow.
Guest:How can you get up there and just not be nervous?
Guest:I said, no, no.
Guest:So that always used to be my thing.
Guest:When I would do Dave, I would go next door and buy like a huge meatball sandwich, you know.
Guest:And when I would see Dave coming down the hall to make up, I'd go, Dave, take it.
Guest:How could you eat that before you go on?
Guest:Jesus Christ, what's the matter with you?
Guest:Home day was delicious.
Guest:And then I got to the point where I would bring the sandwiches out on the show.
Guest:And he was just so, he didn't like doing stand-up.
Guest:I mean, great comedian, good broadcaster.
Guest:I'm not disparaging.
Guest:He just didn't like The Road.
Guest:To me, I love The Road.
Guest:Dave hated it.
Guest:I think he went out with Tony Orlando a couple of times.
Guest:He just hated it more than anything.
Guest:And it was just funny.
Guest:But I always had a great admiration.
Guest:I think he took from me maybe a little bit of the performing part.
Guest:And I took from him, oh, boy, that's the way you write a joke.
Guest:Right, better way to say it.
Guest:And it's not, you know...
Guest:You're not stealing from one another.
Guest:It's not that.
Guest:You're just, okay, you're seeing the right way it should be done.
Marc:And who else impressed you at that time?
Marc:Did you get to see Richard Pryor all the time at the store?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I love Richard Pryor.
Guest:I would ask Mitzi to put me on after Richard every single night.
Guest:Just for the workout?
Guest:Well, you know, we comics are inherently lazy.
Guest:You just go where the audience is.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Oh, so you always say, don't go, don't go, that kind of thing?
Guest:I thought I had an hour's worth of material.
Guest:After following Richie, I realized I had about 18 minutes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And not sarcastically, actually 18.
Guest:Because when the audience is on a roll, they laugh at anything.
Guest:I can remember once Robin Williams came up to me, the height of Mork and Mindy.
Guest:And he said, I got some new stuff.
Guest:Watch my set.
Guest:Tell me if it's any good.
Guest:And he said, help me, Lord.
Guest:No.
Guest:You know, Robin, he's yelling the jokes out and the people are screaming and he said, is the new stuff any good?
Guest:And I said, no, it sucks.
Guest:He goes, I thought it sucks, but I can't tell.
Guest:They just laugh at everything that I do.
Guest:So, I mean, and that's not a shot at Robin.
Guest:It's just the fact that you can't tell how you're doing because the crowd is so crazy, crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:To me, my guy was always Robert Klein.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Because I wasn't Jewish.
Guest:I wasn't poor.
Guest:We weren't rich, but I wasn't poor.
Guest:So I didn't have any of the hooks.
Guest:I wasn't a minority.
Marc:You saw him in New York?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And Klein was a guy that was 10 years older than me and was essentially a middle-class kid and talked about stupid shows on television or trying to get into college, whatever it might be.
Guest:So I really identified with him and Carlin also.
Yeah.
Guest:Carl, another white guy, you know, not a minority, just a funny guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Didn't have a hook, just had good jokes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he wrote the hell out of him.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Great comic.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's interesting because like Klein's a little more free, not free form, but bigger bits than I think you do.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like he did long executed things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I always enjoy Robert.
Guest:He liked being an actor.
Guest:I would see him on Law & Order or something playing an attorney, and I would say to myself, go on The Tonight Show and own network television for eight minutes, where you're the only thing on.
Guest:Why somehow...
Marc:a part in a TV show.
Marc:But everyone seemed to try it.
Marc:You tried it, right?
Marc:Oh, I tried it.
Marc:I hated it.
Marc:But I mean, I understand what you're saying, but I think, well, Robert, that was always his problem, right?
Marc:Yale trained actor, and he wanted to do Broadway.
Marc:He was in that hit.
Marc:They're playing our song.
Marc:And from my read on it,
Marc:is that when Robert had the opportunity to become the biggest comic in the country, something went wrong.
Marc:I mean, it became Cheech and Chong or somebody else.
Guest:Right, right, yeah.
Marc:Right?
Marc:The timing was off.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But he was good.
Guest:He had a summer show called Comedy Tonight, I think it was.
Guest:Yeah, I can't remember that.
Guest:Because I worked at the car dealership, and he came in to buy a car.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:A Rolls?
Guest:No, Mercedes.
Guest:I believe I installed the radio in it.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But you've got no Rolls in your collection.
Guest:No, no, I don't.
Marc:I'm not a Rolls-Royce guy.
Marc:You got some Mercedes?
Marc:Yeah, I got some older Mercedes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It just seems like when we're comics, if you're out here, you're going to take the TV shots.
Marc:Because I remember seeing you show up in weird old movies.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, I did a couple of movies.
Marc:I think you're in one smoking a pipe.
Marc:I think you smoked a pipe.
Guest:That was Silver Bears with Michael.
Guest:You know, I was standing on Sunset Boulevard, and a car pulls up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He goes, what are your name, what are your name?
Guest:My name is Ivan Passa.
Guest:I am a director.
Guest:I am doing film with Michael Caine.
Guest:Do you have a look I like?
Guest:Are you an actor?
Guest:I said, yes.
Guest:Do you want to go to Switzerland and Morocco to do a movie?
Guest:I said, sure.
Guest:Give me your name.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So I gave my name.
Guest:This isn't going to happen.
Guest:Now I get the call.
Guest:Here's your plane ticket.
Guest:All right, I'm on the way to Switzerland and Morocco, and I did this movie.
Guest:And my parents were like stunned.
Guest:I fly to Hollywood, and then I call my parents from Morocco.
Guest:What are you doing in Morocco?
Guest:I'm doing a movie.
Guest:What?
Guest:What are you talking about?
Guest:A guy stopped me on the street corner, asked me if I wanted to be in a movie, and I'll catch who I am, Mom.
Guest:I went to Morocco, England, and Milan, Italy.
Guest:We were over there for like eight weeks doing this film.
Guest:It was pretty stupid.
Marc:Yeah, but it was right at the beginning?
Guest:Yeah, right at the beginning.
Marc:It was hilarious.
Marc:So when you do these things, but like when you did the TV shots and stuff, it's just like, because what, did you know you weren't an actor or did you just not like the gig or you just was like, what?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I was just grabbing a straw.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Yeah, but at that time early on, were you opening for musical acts?
Marc:Were you on the road?
Guest:Yeah, I was on the road a lot.
Guest:I opened for everybody from...
Guest:I remember I was hoping for Perry Como.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was a great guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Perry Como said to me, hey, who's that girl?
Guest:What's that girl?
Guest:What's her name?
Guest:That's Mavis.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What are you going to do with that girl?
Guest:Going to marry her?
Guest:I said, when I get some money, I'll marry her.
Guest:So he took out $2,000.
Guest:He said, here, he's two grand.
Guest:Go marry her.
Guest:And I did.
Guest:And we're still married.
Guest:38 years later.
Guest:That Ferry Cuomo did that?
Guest:Yeah, you know, he was a great guy.
Guest:I mean, he just said, here, here's two grand, go marry him.
Marc:Quit making excuses.
Guest:Yeah, I said, no, I had to marry him.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:No, he was a great guy.
Marc:Did you find that, like, when you worked the road with their, were there guys that you worked the road with that were of another generation that, you know, you were able to...
Guest:Another generation.
Guest:I remember the improv once.
Guest:This is why, you know, I don't bitch about political correctness.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because to me, times change.
Guest:Change with the times or die.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, the reason the Japanese beat Detroit is Detroit, well, we can't meet these new rules.
Guest:We can't meet these regular.
Guest:There's no way we can meet these.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They can't be done.
Guest:And the Japanese said,
Guest:Tell us what the rules are, we'll follow them.
Guest:Fine.
Guest:And they came out with engines that were extremely efficient, extremely, you know, less smog and fuel efficient.
Guest:And so when I see comics that bitch and moan about, change your act, okay?
Guest:I mean, when I started...
Guest:Some sort of gay joke was a staple of everybody's act.
Guest:Nobody does them anymore.
Guest:Why?
Guest:Because times change.
Guest:Right, exactly.
Guest:You don't do that anymore.
Marc:You don't have to say that word anymore.
Marc:They don't want to be called that anymore.
Marc:Don't call them that.
Guest:Exactly, exactly.
Guest:But the idea that you keep fighting this, you need to change with the times.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I mean, I see a lot of gay comedians and lesbian comedians doing comedy from their point of view, and it's just as funny.
Guest:It's just a different point of view.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So, in speaking with that, at the improv, there was this old comedian, I can't remember his name.
Guest:He would come in, and he's obviously been working since World War II.
Guest:This was in 69, 70.
Guest:And he would get up there and he'd go, hey, fellas, you know when you go in a bar and guys in uniform, you know how they got all the girls, you know what I'm talking about?
Guest:Boo!
Guest:Fuck the war!
Guest:You know, people just scream.
Guest:This is the height of it.
Guest:And he goes, I don't care.
Guest:I said, look, this is a lot of anti-war protest guys, not women-like guys that don't go in, that dodge them.
Guest:I said, you've got to update your act.
Guest:He goes, oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:He comes in and goes, watch Mac tonight.
Guest:He goes, hey, fellas, you know how you're going to buy out of the Green Berets?
Guest:You know how they get all the girls?
Guest:I go, no, you can't go to Green Berets.
Guest:It's the same thing as what you just did.
Guest:You can't update the act that way.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, so that's what I mean.
Guest:You just have to change with the times.
Marc:I remember seeing you.
Marc:I can't remember.
Marc:I remember two very distinct jokes because I thought they were hilarious.
Marc:I thought you were great.
Marc:I must have been in junior high or something.
Marc:I don't know if you were on Mike Douglas or Merv Griffin, but you're sitting in the big chair, and they cut away the commercial.
Marc:And it was just an aside.
Marc:You go, does the chair fold into the wall now?
Marc:Are we going to, like, on a game show?
Marc:Are we going to...
Guest:And I thought it was the funniest thing in the world.
Marc:Oh, well, thanks.
Marc:But see, you were never a fan, though.
Marc:What, have you?
Guest:Right, you were never a fan of me.
Marc:No, that's not true.
Marc:No, it's not?
Marc:No, no.
Marc:I remember seeing you at the improv.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:I'd see you when I was in college.
Marc:I'd come out here for the summer, and I'd see you.
Marc:There was the one joke that, like, these are ones I remember just for whatever reason.
Marc:You said, I saw a commercial.
Marc:It was brought to us by the Spring Peach Advisory Board.
Marc:Oh, no.
Marc:The what peach?
Marc:What is it?
Guest:No, it was the,
Guest:I can't find it.
Guest:The cling peach advisor board.
Guest:Eat delicious cling pictures.
Guest:A message from the cling peach advisor board.
Guest:And what kind of cushy ass job is that?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, that's it.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:Bob, this man on line nine wants to have cling pictures with cornflakes.
Guest:Yeah, that's fine.
Guest:I got no problem with that.
Guest:No problem with that.
Guest:Hold my calls, Grace.
Guest:That's what the joke was.
Guest:You know what's so funny is when you take over the Tonight Show, you've got to do a 12-minute monologue every single night.
Guest:And you can't be hip every single... You just can't.
Guest:No, of course.
Guest:So I would just get labeled with this, you know, and just get beat up all the time.
Guest:That's why when you came to see me, when I invited you to the show, I went into the dressing room.
Guest:I know.
Guest:And I said... I thought you didn't like me.
Guest:That's what you said.
Guest:I thought you didn't like me.
Guest:Because, you know, when you're...
Guest:Who do you tackle?
Guest:The guy with the ball, the quarterback.
Guest:And to me, The Tonight Show was the ball.
Guest:And suddenly, I was getting attacked from all sides for basically doing the same thing I always did.
Guest:I mean, my job was to keep The Tonight Show number one and still try to keep a younger audience as well as an older audience.
Marc:Well, I remember what happened was even before, the shift, you took some shit.
Marc:When I was starting out and I was an angry comic, I think that we weren't of the same ilk really.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:Probably more now, more relaxed and funny or whatever.
Marc:You are funny.
Marc:I enjoyed your special.
Marc:I watched the last one.
Marc:Oh, thank you.
Marc:But, like, I remember when, you know, Hicks took you on.
Marc:I mean, that was, like, the first punch.
Marc:You know what happened with Hicks?
Marc:He said, you know, what's the Doritos saying to Satan and everything else?
Guest:Well, what it was was I was... Hicks was 14 years old.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was down and working in Austin, I think it was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They said, we have a comedy class here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Some young people want to do comedy.
Guest:And my rule is...
Guest:the person who thinks you suck and walks out of the room is always gonna be the funniest one there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because there's just an arrogance, you know, okay?
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:So Hicks kind of goes, this sucks, blah, blah, blah, and he walks out of the room.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay, so I called him aside, and then we became friends.
Marc:This is when he's 14.
Marc:14, 15.
Guest:Right, first starting, yeah.
Guest:And we sort of interacted, and I talked with his parents and whatnot, and then he wanted to come on The Tonight Show, and he had this Jesus routine, and I said, Bill,
Guest:I'd love to put you on, but they won't let you do that.
Marc:So it was right at the beginning, 92?
Guest:Yeah, I guess that's what it is.
Guest:I said, Bill, they won't let you put that on.
Guest:And he said, I called Lenham, and Lenham will do it.
Guest:I said, well, I don't own my show.
Guest:Dave owns his show.
Guest:I can't tell you they're not going to cut it up.
Guest:So he just started, Jay Leno, fuck you, Doritos.
Guest:All right, fine.
Guest:And then he went on Dave, and of course the NBC censors.
Marc:Oh, that was that time.
Guest:They cut it all up.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So then he got mad at that.
Marc:And then it was just sort of, yeah.
Marc:And he was out on his outlaw journey.
Marc:Yeah, brilliant kid.
Marc:Great, great.
Marc:Really funny kid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I haven't talked to his parents in a while, his mom in a while, but...
Guest:Yeah, I mean, that was really a sad, sad thing.
Guest:But I just like the anger and the angst.
Marc:Yeah, no, he's great.
Marc:And a great joke writer.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So some of the seed to that was a reaction.
Marc:It was not necessarily personal, but he was up against it.
Marc:What he wanted to do was radical, and the mainstream didn't have a place for him.
Guest:I think that's fair to say.
Marc:You know, but like just a real genius guy.
Marc:But I think like in you addressing me addressing you thinking I didn't like you.
Marc:I think at the time, well, you know, I grew up a Letterman.
Marc:So then there was that wave of that and then that book and that movie.
Marc:And then, you know, you're put in a position to be like, well, what was going on?
Guest:I was the establishment guy.
Guest:And Dave was the hip guy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that's probably fair to say.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we were on at exactly the right times.
Guest:I was more for mainstream people.
Marc:But do you have any regrets about how it went down with The Tonight Show in terms of your relationship with him?
Marc:Like in terms of getting The Tonight Show over him?
Marc:Well, here's the thing.
Guest:I was guest hosting for five years.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I was the only guest host for five years.
Guest:Why is that?
Guest:Well, Dave had done it a bunch of times.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And of course, as excellent as Dave is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Dave doesn't like network suits.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And one of the network guys just asked me what the talent point is.
Guest:My two college-age kids are in town.
Guest:They want tickets for the show.
Guest:And a lot of them are heard and said, no, no, they're not coming in.
Guest:And it's our show.
Guest:No.
Guest:No, I don't want.
Guest:No.
Guest:And I remember when they gave me the show, one of the guys said, I wasn't going to go through 20 years of that.
Yeah.
Guest:you know i mean to me i think he probably would have gotten it yeah um i don't know uh don't forget it's sort of it's a double-edged show because they had a hit show a huge hit show yeah you had johnny who was seen as the old school on his way out david was the bright shining light at 12 30. yeah
Guest:well, why not bring a new guy in to take over from Johnny and then keep the bright light shining at 1230?
Guest:I mean, I think Dave was somewhat a victim of his own success because the show was so big and perfect in that time spot, and they weren't sure if that would work at 1130.
Guest:They had a guy guest hosting who was getting really good ratings and doing well.
Guest:All right, why don't we just do this?
Guest:And that's what they did.
Guest:I mean...
Guest:you know, people would get mad at me and I, what was I supposed to do?
Guest:Was I supposed to turn it down?
Guest:Was I supposed to go, no?
Guest:Right.
Guest:I mean, it wasn't, you know, there's this sort of thing that somehow I snuck in at the last minute and stole the ball here.
Guest:I was guest hosting for five years.
Guest:The only guest host on the show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was doing weeks, two weeks at a time, three weeks at a time when Johnny was out.
Guest:And then it got turned over to me.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And now do you, did you reconcile with Dave?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:I think, Dave, you know something?
Guest:We've always had a mutual admiration for each other.
Guest:I think he was angry, rightfully so.
Guest:The decision was not mine.
Guest:The decision was NBC's.
Guest:For example, I'm someone who would go and visit every single NBC affiliate.
Guest:They wanted me to do that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't think Dave would do that.
Guest:It's just not his nature.
Guest:It's neither right nor wrong.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But somehow, oh, well, you cheated.
Guest:You went and visited all these.
Guest:No, I didn't.
Guest:That's part of the job.
Guest:The Tonight Show was the traditional show.
Guest:You didn't mind being a company guy.
Guest:You like going out.
Marc:You can schmooze.
Guest:You do the stand-up.
Guest:You know something?
Guest:If you're taking the company money, you're a company guy, whether you pretend to or not.
Guest:Right.
Guest:If you don't want to be a company guy, don't take the company money.
Guest:Right.
Guest:If you're going to be a company guy, take the company guy.
Marc:right well i think that like also in in reaction to you uh you thinking i i didn't like you i think that like um there was i and i know you've dealt with it because i've heard stories you know like you you know you you hear other comics saying bad about you and you call them up and you go like what's it about i don't mind it if they know me and okay did i fuck you over yes okay yeah but wait that never happened you know i read all these stories that
Guest:you know just crazy stuff just crazy stuff i just always like that you would call like i remember the first time you called me i'm like it's like oh jayleno hey hey and then there's a part like why did i get my number what do you do yeah well i mean why not go to you know to me if there's something going around you go to the source yeah you know i wasn't a great one for social media i wasn't gonna talk i don't like to talk about other comics yeah i don't and i don't really slam any other comics
Guest:You know, it's such a small fraternity, and there are very few people that really understand what it is we do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like Kimmel and I had a bit of a thing going.
Guest:You know, Kimmel came from the Letterman camp and the Howard Stern camp.
Guest:And, you know... Oh, yeah, he did that thing where he sandbagged you.
Guest:Yeah, he didn't like... Yeah, it's a...
Guest:All right.
Guest:But what people don't realize is I let that go on the air.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I could have edited it and just.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:It wasn't live, was it?
Guest:No, it wasn't live.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:You know, so we didn't.
Guest:I said, look, if that's what he wants, that's fine.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And, you know, when his son had this incident, I called him up and we had a nice talk.
Guest:And I said, look, I think he's really funny.
Guest:It's good.
Guest:And the funny thing is.
Guest:he's more like me probably than any other host.
Guest:He's Italian.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's got kind of a blue collar background, which I like.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's a funny guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we reconciled him.
Guest:And I think we're, I don't know if we're friend friends, but you know, I just called him up and said, look, I'm, I'm, I'm not going to say anything bad about you.
Guest:I think you're really funny.
Guest:I think you did a great, does an incredible job on the Oscars.
Marc:I mean, it's great.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:You know, I turned that job down because I didn't think I could be any good at it.
Guest:And I watch him.
Guest:He just does an amazing job.
Guest:It's really funny.
Guest:It's really topical.
Guest:Yeah, it's good.
Marc:He's got a great interaction.
Marc:Oh, let me ask you a question.
Marc:Because, like, I'm just trying to track this thing.
Marc:So, you know, we got the Hicks thing, and then you took the job, and then there was the tension with Letterman, there was the Letterman camp, and then, you know, there only seemed to be a Letterman camp, but somehow you were the guy that did something bad.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But the truth of the matter is that your assumption by me was wrong because I always loved you as a comic, and you were one of the great comics, and you're still a great comic, but we all knew you as a comic, out there doing it, always turning over new material, and you're a great club act, and we knew you were a lifer and a veteran and the real deal.
Marc:So I got the feeling with you that somehow after The Tonight Show that there was this thing always hanging over you that how did so many comics decide you were an asshole?
Guest:Uh, I don't know.
Guest:Did it bother you, though?
Guest:I mean, like... Well, it's everything bothered.
Guest:Look, you're a comic.
Guest:You like to be liked.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's why I invited you on the show.
Guest:I don't think this guy likes me.
Guest:Let me bring him on and see what it's all about.
Marc:But that was just because, like, Conan, like, was... You put me on his show four times a year.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And I was there at the beginning.
Marc:That's okay.
Guest:But, like, I wasn't out saying... See, that was another odd situation.
Guest:Because when I got to Tonight Show, okay, Conan, come on.
Yeah.
Guest:And Conan was going week by week in terms of is he going to stay on or are they going to cancel it?
Guest:What do you mean after?
Guest:When was this?
Guest:The first time he was on the late night show following me.
Guest:Oh, oh, oh.
Guest:And they were renewing him like six weeks at a time.
Guest:Early on, the 90s.
Guest:Oh, yeah, 90s.
Guest:And Ohmeyer came to me and said, what do you think?
Guest:I think he's funny.
Guest:I said, you can't put people on in three weeks, four weeks.
Guest:I mean, you know, just renew them.
Guest:And I said, listen, why don't we do this?
Guest:I will promote him every night after my show.
Guest:I'll say who his guests are and stay tuned for Conan.
Guest:I will do that every single night.
Guest:You're telling us that Don O'Meyer was the head of the network at the time.
Guest:And Don said, okay, would you do that?
Guest:I said, yeah, I like him.
Guest:And I did.
Guest:And it worked fine.
Guest:And then one day I get, you know, a network guy comes to me and goes, you didn't hear from me, but Conan wants you out.
Guest:And I said, what?
Marc:When was this?
Guest:In the 90s?
Guest:This was...
Guest:No, in the 2000s.
Guest:Because he was getting hot and we were doing well and he was doing well.
Guest:And then they, I don't have an agent or a manager.
Guest:I learned my lesson with that one.
Guest:So this was all.
Marc:You just got a lawyer, you got nobody?
Guest:I don't really have a lawyer, but.
Guest:If you need one, you can find one.
Guest:Yeah, I can do it.
Guest:So I just get this call.
Guest:What's this all about?
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Next thing I know, they want to give The Tonight Show to Conan.
Guest:Do they want to do?
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I said, you know, I still got four more years.
Guest:They want you to announce it.
Guest:They're going to announce it.
Guest:Fine.
Guest:So I said, oh, I'm stepping down.
Guest:They want to give it to Conan.
Guest:Okay, fine.
Marc:In four years.
Guest:In four years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay, but we're still number one.
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Then I think Craig Ferguson came along.
Guest:And suddenly, whoa, he was pulling from Conan, and I don't know if he was beating Conan, but certainly a run for the money.
Guest:Not a huge market at that hour anyways.
Guest:Right, and the networks were like, oh, wait a minute.
Guest:The bloom is off the rose here a bit, and what's going to happen?
Guest:Okay, so then that comes along, and okay, they want me to go, fine.
Guest:So I...
Guest:I get an offer from ABC.
Guest:I call Kimmel.
Guest:Kimmel, they want to move me at 11.30, you to 12.30.
Guest:Would you do that?
Guest:He said, yeah, I think I'd do that.
Guest:Okay, fine.
Guest:Everybody happy?
Guest:Fine.
Guest:And then NBC goes, I tell you, what do you want at 10 o'clock?
Guest:And I said...
Guest:all right fine and somehow jay luna it's not fair to come you know hey it's welcome to show business okay okay so but did you think it would be a good place for you or you just wanted to work i wanted to work and second of all they said to me look whether this works out or not we'll pay your staff your entire staff for two years
Guest:And everybody in my show had never done it before, with the exception of three or four people.
Guest:All the writers, we had the same writers for 23 years.
Guest:Everybody, I said, you guys want to get paid for another two years?
Guest:All right, fine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So we did that.
Guest:We had a really loyal staff.
Guest:When the ratings started to drop on a lot of late night shows,
Guest:They want to do cutbacks.
Guest:I was making such stupid money anyway.
Guest:It was $30 million a year.
Guest:So I said, let's cut it in half to 15 and we'll spread the second half out among everybody.
Guest:Okay, fine.
Guest:Okay, so now they love you and all that kind of stuff.
Guest:Everybody's happy.
Guest:We're doing fine.
Guest:So I said, you guys want to do a show at 10 o'clock?
Guest:And the network was really up for this because they had tried it in the 60s with Jack Parr and thought maybe it could have worked.
Guest:But they were panicking.
Guest:They were panicking because nobody was watching the 10 o'clock shows.
Marc:But wasn't there a panic around the number drop from... There was.
Guest:There was.
Guest:Numbers were dropping before I came on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And then they put us on a 10, which was seen as basically the same thing.
Guest:And I guess the numbers dropped even more, but...
Guest:I believe he was getting notes from the network and not paying attention to them.
Guest:They thought the sketches were too long or whatever it might be.
Guest:I don't want to talk about his thing.
Guest:He can talk about that.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I mean, there was talk about me doing a half-hour show and then Conan coming on at midnight.
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:So you're starting at the time The Tonight Show started.
Marc:Right, and then- Putting him on, and he said, then it's not The Tonight Show.
Marc:That was the deal that broke that.
Guest:That's when Conan quit.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So then it was like, oh, we quit.
Guest:You want to come back?
Guest:I said, sure.
Guest:So we came back and we were number one until we left.
Marc:Now, okay, as somebody looking back at this, two questions.
Marc:Do you have any regrets about the way it all was handled?
Guest:No, I don't because, A, it wasn't my decision other than to say yes or no.
Guest:There was no scheme.
Guest:I would read where I read one blog where it said, well, you know, they had to take Leno back or pay him $150 million.
Guest:Okay, either I'm a genius or I'm an idiot.
Guest:You can't be bull.
Guest:Why would they have to pay him?
Guest:Why would you have to fire a guy and then pay him $150 million?
Guest:It just didn't make any sense.
Marc:Do you think Conan should have stayed on at midnight?
Guest:To me, when you're on, you're winning.
Guest:I know because I think that's what Seinfeld said too.
Guest:Yeah, to me, as long as you're on, you're winning.
Guest:I always had a play and pay contract.
Guest:I always meet comics that go, they're not using me and they're paying me 10 grand a week.
Guest:I go, yeah, but when that ends, your career is over because nobody likes to spend money on something that's not making money.
Guest:So to me, it was, oh, if you're going to use me, you got to have me on the air.
Guest:I believe that was another reason why I was on at 10 o'clock.
Guest:That was part of it also.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So to me, that was it.
Guest:Yes, I think Conan should have done it.
Guest:And then I would have retired four or five years later anyway.
Guest:And if the show's...
Guest:Look, you're either popular or not.
Guest:I mean, you rise and fall on your own.
Guest:You know, I always tell comedians, they hired me to be on this shitty sitcom.
Guest:You know, they're hiring you because it's a shitty sitcom.
Guest:So they're thinking you can make it funny.
Guest:That's why you're on, okay?
Guest:Hopefully it won't be a shitty sitcom because you're on it.
Guest:That's the way it works.
Guest:We had bad lead-ins when I was doing The Tonight Show in the 90s.
Guest:Just awful.
Guest:You know, all these 10 o'clock bad dramas that weren't going anywhere.
Guest:The only one, ER, was the only hit.
Guest:But everybody did.
Guest:You rise and fall on your own numbers.
Guest:Whatever, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So let's go back in time just a bit for a minute.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:So I saw Tom Dreesen the other night, and he performed at the Comedy Store for the first time in like 40 years.
Marc:Right, oh yeah, I love Tom.
Marc:He went on the main room.
Marc:Argus brought him up.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Now do you, like in Mitzi Pass, did you go to the memorial or anything?
Guest:I didn't go to Memorial because I got a stupid phone call.
Guest:Hey, Gilello, you better go to Mitch's funeral, man.
Guest:You're going to be your asshole.
Guest:You better cancel any gigs you have.
Guest:And I go, you know, I don't want to go through all this again.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I didn't know who it was.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I just went, really?
Guest:It's 30 years later.
Guest:This bullshit's still going on.
Guest:So I figured I'm not going to go and cause a big wreckage.
Guest:You better go or you're not going to get spots.
Guest:Right.
Guest:No, I remember I did Tim Conway and a bunch of radio shows just talking about how much we love Mitzi and how much he liked comedy and really helped us all out.
Marc:But do you have an emotional connection to that time and to the other comics?
Guest:Incredible emotional connection.
Guest:and the guys are there any guys left from that time that you're still in touch with i mean all of the guys it's recent everybody you know i knew steve lebetkin yeah i know right the guy who jumped steve lebetkin he had a he had one bit called cat news yeah and it was something about a newsman reading news for cats yeah it was pretty funny yeah and he auditioned with that yeah at the improv and i thought it's very funny bet how you doing blah blah
Guest:Then he got some money from his father or somebody.
Guest:He got some investors.
Guest:And he did a movie called Cat News.
Guest:And that was the only bit he really had.
Guest:And then, I don't know whether he was getting high.
Guest:He just didn't come up with more stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then he went, and I think Mitzi said.
Guest:It was the strike too, right?
Guest:The strike was going on.
Guest:And he was.
Guest:He jumped off the roof of the Hyatt house next door.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Killed himself.
Marc:Right, right, but some of it was because he was panicking.
Marc:Obviously, he had some mental problems, but he was panicking that he wasn't getting spots.
Marc:I talked to Tom about it, and he said, yeah, he was one of the strikers, and I guess he mentally had everything invested in this thing.
Marc:Rumor, you can invalidate a rumor to me or not, and it's all right if it's not true, but I heard that somebody the next day after he jumped...
Marc:called the comedy store to put him for spots as the Bitkin.
Marc:No, I didn't either.
Guest:You didn't do that?
Guest:No, I wouldn't do that.
Guest:Steve was a friend of mine.
Marc:Yeah, of course.
Guest:I don't mean to be a... No, no, no, no, but it was just... It was a comic thing, you know?
Guest:No, and that's what I mean.
Guest:It's a comic.
Guest:You have to go... Somebody's going to do something.
Guest:You have to go for the joke.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You've got to go for the joke, yeah.
Guest:But you do, you have warm feelings about that time.
Guest:I love that time.
Guest:You know what it was?
Guest:Because there was a sense of belonging to something.
Guest:I mean, when you're a young comic, you have no idea where your life is going.
Guest:You don't want to sell insurance.
Guest:You don't want to work in a factory.
Guest:You just don't want to be a regular person.
Guest:You just want to do something or die trying.
Guest:And to meet other people who think like that,
Guest:I mean, I went a whole year without ever meeting anyone else that wanted to be in show business in Boston.
Guest:People would look at you like, oh, you're a comedian, huh?
Guest:Oh, man, that's kind of weird.
Guest:And girls, a comedian, where do you work?
Guest:Well, you know, you get up and just tell jokes, you talk.
Guest:Then you come here in New York and you meet guys that want to be lighting directors or choreographers or gay guys that want to be dancers.
Guest:No.
Guest:In Boston, no gay guy would say you want to be a dancer.
Guest:You get beat up back in the... Right.
Guest:I mean, it was just... It was like an amazing time to meet other people.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, I think it's like maybe if you're a gay person and suddenly you meet other gay people and you realize... This is where show business is.
Guest:Yeah, this is where this is... Here are people I have something in common with.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, of course.
Marc:And this is where you, you know, you kind of do that work.
Guest:I mean, it was a very exciting time.
Guest:I got...
Guest:I got picked up twice for vagrancy on Hollywood Boulevard, and the cops would see me.
Guest:In fact, when I got my star, we put the star where I got picked up twice.
Guest:The cops would see you about eight o'clock at night and go, where you living?
Guest:I don't know how, get in the back.
Guest:And you'd spend the whole night in the back of the car in their shift, and they'd let you out at 6 o'clock in the morning.
Guest:But you'd tell them jokes and stuff, which worked against you because if they laughed, like a couple weeks later, two other cops, hey, you're the guy that told the joke, yeah, get in the back, get in the back.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Tell my partner the joke about the guy with the thing.
Guest:Oh, yeah, whatever it is.
Guest:So it was...
Guest:To me, because, you know, at the time, the hot book was Ladies and Gentlemen, Lenny Bruce.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And Lenny Bruce had died a few years earlier.
Guest:66, I think.
Guest:69, 69 maybe.
Guest:Yeah, 66.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it seemed like strippers and comedy and the underbelly, the seedy underbelly of New York.
Guest:It just seemed like the hippest, coolest place in the world to be.
Guest:I used to work Broadway Burlesque, which was a strip joint.
Guest:And it was just the seediest place.
Guest:And there used to be a stripper named Silver Moon who was a gymnast who had the most incredible body.
Guest:And she would practice all day twirling six guns and all this kind of stuff.
Guest:You think the guys will like this?
Guest:I go, yeah, that really doesn't.
Guest:And then I saw her 10 years later, and she looked 55 years old, you know, living on that stripper diet of Reese's peanut butter cups and pizza slices and grape juice and just grape soda.
Guest:It's just crazy.
Guest:But it seemed like a really romantic, cool, dark underbelly kind of lifestyle, which I like.
Marc:And it is kind of.
Guest:Yeah, it is.
Guest:It is.
Marc:So when you go out now,
Marc:Like how many weeks are you out?
Marc:I do about 210 dates a year or something like that.
Guest:And do you write all your own shit still?
Guest:Yeah, for the most part.
Guest:Sometimes people come up to you and give you something.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Do you pay them?
Guest:Yeah, you pay them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I had somebody give me a great joke.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And I did it like three or four times.
Guest:And then this is why I got to watch everybody.
Guest:I watched Jim Jefferies and I go,
Guest:that that's that's his joke oh someone gave you jim jeff you know and i called him up and i said look man i i did this joke two times once in vegas i had no idea oh that's cool man i said look it'll never happen again i just yeah i mean i just felt so bad yeah now i just it's just from guys i know and or girls i know whoever i know are people that used to work with guys that wrote for you for years sometimes
Marc:Once in a while, guys send you something.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah, it's fun.
Marc:So 200, so, and what do you, do you go regular down to the Comedy Magic Club in Hermosa?
Guest:Been to the Comedy Magic Club every Sunday since 78.
Guest:Yeah, and that's still ongoing.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, that's the only, you know, I,
Guest:For some reason, people find this fascinating.
Guest:I always live on the money I made as a stand-up.
Guest:I never touch the diamond.
Guest:What are you going to do with the other money?
Guest:Tonight Showman.
Guest:I do a lot of... Charities.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You make enough.
Guest:It's my wife and I, please.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's not like I get... Right.
Guest:You know, we've got some scholarships.
Guest:My wife works with...
Guest:women of Afghanistan you know she's with the feminist majority and they try to they smuggle girls out and they give them educations here in America and I mean it's really satisfying you meet these girls and now they're 10 years later they're women and they're doctors and they're lawyers oh it's beautiful you know it's really cool it's really cool and to me I love being a comic to me it's the greatest job in show business you don't you know I have if the gig's at 8 o'clock your plane lands at 7 15 you're at the club at quarter to 8 and you go
Guest:Fuck, I've got to kill 15 minutes.
Guest:Everybody else, they've got to bring the teamsters, unload.
Guest:You've got to sound check.
Guest:The bass player's drunk again.
Guest:Oh, see another bass player.
Guest:See if we can find somebody.
Guest:You don't have any of those.
Guest:Write joke, tell joke, get check.
Guest:It's real simple.
Marc:Get laugh, then get check?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Or not go back.
Guest:But, you know, it's so much fun just to craft a joke on the road.
Guest:You know, I was trying to come up with something with the school shootings.
Guest:I'm thinking, how do you do a joke about that?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Let's see if you like this one.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:You know, Trump said he wants to arm the teachers.
Guest:Have they thought this through?
Guest:Like the school librarian.
Guest:Would her gun have to have a silencer?
Guest:Like, shh, pooh, shh.
Guest:Did that work?
Guest:It works, actually.
Guest:And I always say to the audience, you're laughing at school shooting.
Guest:You know how hard it is to write a school shooting joke?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But there's a great sense of accomplishment when you have a joke that's actually.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:When you're challenged by the.
Guest:I mean, to me, I will do an hour.
Marc:Horror of the news.
Guest:Yeah, just to try out one line.
Guest:So it's still pretty topical, so your turnover's pretty... No, it's what you call evergreen topical, because most people don't know anything.
Guest:I learned on The Tonight Show, once you get past Secretary of State, nobody has any idea who you're talking about.
Guest:They just don't know anything.
Guest:It's sad, isn't it?
Guest:So you have to talk about, how about the economy and Congress?
Guest:Because on The Tonight Show, a joke they killed on Monday by Friday.
Guest:Who was that again?
Marc:Oh, and now it's got to be so exhausting.
Marc:It's a dump truck full of shit every day.
Guest:Yeah, and you know, to me it's funny because...
Guest:I did it when Bush was dumb and Clinton was horny, and it was just easier.
Guest:You know, comedy comes from a certain conservative place, and then it's outrageous when you cross the line.
Guest:But when the president's banging hookers and saying Africa's a shithole, where do you go?
Guest:How do you make that funnier?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How do you exaggerate that?
Marc:Well, now it's sort of on these guys.
Marc:It's sort of impressive, like Kimmel and Colbert.
Marc:They've got to hold the line.
Marc:Kimmel, Colbert.
Marc:They're actually serving as a check on the executive power.
Marc:Samantha Bee.
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Guest:Trevor.
Guest:Jimmy also.
Guest:And now Michelle.
Guest:Yeah, Michelle.
Guest:Jimmy came around.
Guest:Well, you can't blame Jimmy.
Guest:I don't blame him.
Guest:Because it's the Tonight Show.
Guest:It's the mainstream show.
Marc:Yeah, no, I like it.
Marc:I like going on with him.
Guest:I like going on with all the guys.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, it's tough to write a different version of the same joke every night.
Guest:Everyone, there's so many places.
Guest:And I don't say that insultingly.
Guest:I mean, it's just basically, what did Trump do?
Guest:What?
Marc:Right, and you got, in every one of the shows, it's got a dozen guys sitting there churning out monologue jokes.
Marc:You're going down the, like, you know.
Guest:And like now when you go on the road, if people don't like your politics, they don't like your act.
Guest:I mean, that's why I really enjoyed Seinfeld's last Netflix special.
Guest:Just with him going over his old bits.
Guest:Here's a bunch of jokes.
Guest:Here's a bunch of jokes.
Guest:Oh, thank you.
Guest:I don't have to commit to a point of view.
Guest:I don't have to tell you my opinion.
Guest:I just hear the laugh, you know.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know what's going on inside that guy.
Marc:What, Jerry?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I get more of it.
Marc:I get a sense of you.
Marc:But because his point of view is very specifically mundane.
Marc:They're sort of elaborating on these little things.
Marc:But I don't know what that guy is.
Marc:There's one moment on Comedians in Cars when Chandling's with him.
Marc:And Shanling says to him, they obviously love each other, and Shanling says, he seemed very angry.
Marc:And there was a moment on Seinfeld's face where I'm like, oh, that's what it is.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:No, I know what you mean.
Guest:I know what you mean.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But you know, Seinfeld and I, when we talk on the phone, we each come away with something funny.
Guest:Oh, yeah, I bet.
Guest:I bet.
Guest:You guys are real joke guys.
Guest:It really makes me laugh.
Marc:You talk to them often?
Guest:Yeah, I talk to them a lot.
Guest:I always try to find the thing that makes... Oh, we were talking about... And this is not...
Guest:Tig Nogero.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Tig Notaro, yeah.
Guest:How do you say her name?
Guest:Notaro.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Guest:And I said, I thought she's funny.
Guest:I said, I don't know how she'd do in Vegas at the sand and gravel convention, but I think, you know, it's a point of view.
Guest:And you realize comic is very specific now for specific audiences.
Guest:You know, we're sort of the old school.
Guest:You try to work every crowd.
Guest:You know, I once booked myself into Oral Roberts University.
Guest:I just want to see if I could play this.
Guest:Of course you could, right?
Guest:See what they like.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And all they said was, no sex jokes.
Guest:You can do anything else.
Guest:Please don't do any sex jokes.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I signed a contract.
Guest:I got paid.
Guest:I don't want to do it.
Guest:And, you know, they were fine.
Guest:I mean, politics, everything else, just like anybody else.
Guest:They just don't want any dick jokes.
Marc:They don't want any, you know, it's all right.
Marc:I remember when I interviewed Gallagher years ago and he walked out, before he walked out, when we were having a reasonable conversation, he was talking about these people who come up on stage with their notebooks.
Marc:You can't bring your notebook on stage if you're playing the state fair in Oklahoma or wherever it was.
Marc:He was just making this point about how, don't you want to play a state fair?
Marc:And then you have that moment where you're like, no.
Marc:I don't want to play a state fair.
Guest:I don't need to.
Guest:Gallagher ran for governor.
Guest:Here?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When that whole thing was going on, remember there was some stripper running when Schwarzenegger was in?
Guest:So we had all 50 candidates on.
Guest:And Gallagher comes up and he goes, you've got to put me on and talk.
Guest:I can't because it's equal time.
Guest:He was so mad at me.
Guest:He goes, no, you put...
Guest:No, I can't because legally, if I give you five minutes, so we have all 50, we had all 50 candidates in the audience all answering the question at the same time, all just talking.
Guest:All right, it's a bit.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, it's a bit.
Guest:And Gallagher, if you're, no, let me talk.
Guest:No, and I said, I can't, don't you understand?
Marc:He hasn't spoken to me since.
Marc:Did he walk out?
Marc:Yeah, boy.
Marc:I mean, your life is like a lot.
Marc:I bet that's a real hit to take.
Marc:Gallagher, he's not going to talk to you anymore.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:But, you know, some good comic back in the day.
Marc:Was he?
Marc:Really good, yeah.
Marc:Before the props?
Marc:It was always props.
Guest:Always props, but he always had funny stuff.
Guest:I mean, it was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, everybody has that flash of brilliance.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:And things happen along the way.
Guest:Sometimes it's drugs.
Guest:Sometimes it's relationships.
Guest:Sometimes it's.
Guest:you're too straight, you're too gay, you're too screwed up.
Guest:But that initial, you know, that's what I, like when I watch Michelle Wolf now, I'm seeing the prime.
Guest:I'm seeing her really burning white hot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she has such fun doing it.
Guest:I love watching a comedian who enjoys performing because she's,
Guest:She's got that big smile.
Guest:And Nixon saw himself as an asshole.
Guest:And she's laughing at her own joke, but in a good way.
Guest:And I love to watch the joy of comics performing.
Guest:I hate when people, oh, man, this sucks.
Marc:Well, that was the great thing about being at the store.
Marc:It's like on any given night, you could just sit there.
Marc:You know, and watch people when you work there.
Guest:I remember Newhart came in one night to see.
Guest:I'm not going to say who it was.
Guest:It was a comedian who was a hot comedian.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Newhart's sitting there.
Guest:And they go, please welcome downtown.
Guest:The guy comes up.
Guest:How you doing?
Guest:Hey, where you from?
Guest:Denver.
Guest:Fuck Denver.
Guest:Huge laugh.
Guest:And Bob goes, I don't get it.
Guest:I don't get it.
Guest:And he says, where you from?
Guest:Boston.
Guest:Fuck Boston.
Woo!
Guest:Bob goes, I don't get it, why is this a joke?
Guest:I mean, it just really made me, he was one of them, Bob Newhart, nobody funny.
Guest:He's so good, he's so great.
Guest:You know what it is, he's like Letterman, he has that word, he has a bit, it's so subtle, it just killed me, I watched him one time,
Guest:He used to do about the first astronaut to have extraterrestrial interaction in space.
Guest:So he's met the aliens, and he's having a press conference, and he's talking about it.
Guest:And a reporter says to him, how far ahead of us are these aliens?
Guest:And Newhart says, about six weeks.
Guest:And you go, it's six weeks.
Guest:Two weeks you can catch up to.
Guest:Six months is too far away.
Guest:But six weeks is just enough that we'll never catch them.
Guest:They'll always be just six weeks.
Guest:And it was such a subtle Bob Newhart, just a throwaway line.
Guest:It was as light as a feather and it stayed in the air.
Guest:And to me, I love watching when comics can do that.
Marc:He's got such a unique timing.
Guest:Bob and Ray, they had that sense of... I remember they used to have a bit about some guy wrote a book on the presidents, and they were checking it for accuracy, and they said, now here you have a picture of Lincoln riding this inauguration in an automobile.
Guest:Well, don't worry about that.
Guest:And they just have this whole, this goes off on a tangent.
Guest:You know, I always like the disappearing dime trick more than the huge illusionist.
Guest:Because the disappearing dime trick, it's right in front of you and he's using his hands.
Guest:And when people can use words that way, like Newhart, just...
Guest:Just talking, you know?
Guest:No funny costume, no funny face.
Guest:Just throw the word out there.
Marc:And he's a great reactor.
Marc:And he can react to himself.
Marc:That weird beat that he takes.
Marc:Yeah, really funny.
Marc:It is, man.
Marc:All right, buddy.
Marc:Well, that was great.
Marc:I think that we had a good talk.
Marc:That good for you?
Marc:Yeah, was it good for you?
Marc:You feel better?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:It was good.
Marc:I always liked you, Jay.
Marc:I know.
Guest:I always liked you.
Guest:I thought you were funny.
Marc:Now, did you ever resolve anything with Conan, or is that just shit?
Marc:No, I have no idea.
Guest:You know something?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:To me, this is business.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Do you really get screwed by another performer?
Guest:I mean, was I supposed to quit?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, one day I was in traffic and I pull away and the guy goes, beep!
Guest:He pulls up next to me and I go, I'm sorry, man.
Guest:I didn't mean to cut you off.
Guest:I looked in my rearview mirror.
Guest:I didn't see you.
Guest:He didn't cut me off.
Guest:What's the problem?
Guest:You stole Conan's dream, man.
Guest:He starts screaming at me and I go,
Guest:I said, you want to pull over and talk about this?
Guest:No, I don't, man.
Guest:But you stole Conan's dream and he's just screaming.
Guest:I go, okay.
Guest:You want to pull over and have a cup of coffee and we talk?
Guest:No, no, I'm not talking to you.
Guest:And he took off.
Guest:I went, all right, I don't know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know what that was.
Guest:And to me, it's a business decision.
Guest:I mean, when they had the strike at the comedy store,
Guest:There was a group of people that wanted all comics to get paid the same on gigs, no matter what your talent.
Guest:Well, it doesn't work that way.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's a competitive society.
Guest:The guy hits most home runs, gets the biggest contract.
Guest:I mean, what are you doing?
Marc:What did you do on the strike?
Marc:Were you on either side or were you?
Guest:No, I was with the comics.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't want to say it was... I mean, I remember asking.
Guest:I think $25 seemed fair.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:As opposed to not getting paid at all.
Guest:Not getting paid at all.
Guest:Just $25 is sad.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Mitzi was so opposed.
Guest:This was such a huge insult.
Guest:And I think she was insulted.
Guest:It wasn't about the money.
Guest:It was about the fact that this is a school where you learn.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But...
Guest:Someone's making money, yeah.
Guest:I mean, you had the Comedy Store, this Comedy Store South, the Comedy Store West and Westwood.
Guest:There were Comedy Stores all over the place, and they were doing huge business, and they were the talk of Johnny Carter.
Guest:My next act comes from the Comedy Store, right?
Guest:Here down in Los Angeles.
Guest:It was the perfect name, Comedy Store.
Guest:Go there, buy comedy.
Guest:Buses would pull up.
Guest:I mean...
Guest:making millions of dollars.
Guest:And it didn't seem that outrageous to get $25, but the door was so slammed in our face that really, you know.
Marc:Yeah, it seemed weird.
Guest:Yeah, and it was weird.
Guest:And I always, because I always liked Mitzi.
Guest:She was always good to me, but she just couldn't,
Marc:let her comics go off you know the old if you love it set it free yeah you know that silly thing or just work down the street for fuck's sake yeah exactly exactly it's on fire again dude it's like crazy like it's crazy busy there good good you should go over there do a set see what happens yeah it'd be fun to do a set i've worked the laugh factory a couple times i like that that's true and where'd you work you worked all the rooms at the store main room i worked all the rooms yeah it was fun yeah you know do you ever miss those times
Guest:I miss the camaraderie.
Guest:That's what I think that TV show doesn't capture.
Guest:It doesn't capture the real fun of it.
Guest:And, you know, the funniest thing about the TV show, there's nothing harder than writing a joke.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You can write all the dramatic scenes you want.
Guest:And to me, that show should be filled with jokes.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Just constantly jokes.
Guest:Great jokes.
Guest:You know, the great thing about the old Dick Van Dyke show was they could do the bad jokes in the writer's room.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And how about this?
Guest:And you knew it wasn't funny, but it was funny that they threw it out.
Guest:And that's what that show should have, just the bad jokes as well.
Marc:Right, but the good jokes should be the actual show show.
Marc:Right, exactly.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I have a weird history with that place, and it doesn't go back that far.
Marc:But it's the only place in town I'll work because I love it.
Marc:And now it's like, since we all got sort of behind it on social media, you know,
Marc:You know, they put some money into security and new bathrooms.
Marc:And like, you know, it's a real well-managed joint now.
Guest:Oh, good.
Marc:Great.
Marc:You know, a lot of people are coming out that weren't there before.
Marc:They never really worked there.
Marc:I think Jerry did the first set he'd ever done.
Marc:Maybe done one other one.
Marc:Mitzi didn't like Jerry.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I wonder why.
Guest:I think he was seen as an improv act.
Guest:He was an improv comic.
Guest:You think that was it?
Guest:I think that might have been it.
Guest:Plus, Jerry has always been his own man and does his own way.
Guest:And if Mitzi ever said Jerry, I think you should do it this way.
Guest:No.
Guest:You know, Jerry's not a guy that's going to go, oh, okay, let me think about it.
Guest:And then, you know, me, I would go, oh, thank you.
Guest:That's a good suggestion.
Guest:Fuck that, you know.
Guest:And then I would just do what I, like, you know, Jerry just kind of, no, that's not going to happen.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:And I think she resented the fact that he was a, see, he came out a fully formed comic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So she couldn't mold him in any sense.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, most of the other comics are just, well, what's this?
Guest:Lost people.
Guest:Lost souls.
Guest:Yeah, lost souls.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:That's why I like them all.
Guest:You know, even the comics that I,
Guest:Supposedly don't like me.
Guest:I still like them because they're the only other people that you have a shared experience.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like guys, you're in battle together or something.
Guest:You're in war together.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:You know what it's like.
Guest:You got shot at.
Guest:Who are your friends?
Guest:Do you hang out with people?
Guest:Like comics?
Guest:I see Jerry.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Brogan and I work together all the time.
Guest:Oh, yeah, Jimmy.
Guest:I always at Comedy Magical.
Guest:Billy Gardel.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Nice guy.
Guest:Great guy.
Guest:Really funny guy.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I like...
Guest:meeting new comics.
Guest:It's just funny to me.
Guest:I see a lot of guys that are really, really good.
Guest:And it's fun to see female comics now.
Guest:I mean, I think it's, I don't know if it's totally equal, but it seems really damn close at this point.
Guest:Yeah, a lot of people coming in.
Marc:It just seems like a lot of people are getting into it.
Guest:You know, Ellen DeGeneres was the first one for me that she didn't do a male or female act.
Guest:She was just a comedian.
Guest:I hate comedian.
Guest:I hate that name.
Guest:You're a comedian.
Guest:The comic, yeah.
Guest:I mean, Ellen has bits I wish I had and I'd love to do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And maybe she thinks that I have something she'd like.
Guest:But you could do that.
Guest:It's not gender.
Guest:It's not the old toady field.
Guest:You like this dress?
Marc:You know, that kind of, you know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Show business.
Marc:Good seeing you, Jay.
Marc:You too.
Marc:Thanks, man.
Marc:Thanks.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, I thought we covered it.
Marc:It was great to see him.
Marc:You know, he's Jay Leno.
Marc:And he's a great comic.
Marc:And we talked about this stuff.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:We talked about it.
Marc:And I feel good about it.
Marc:And as he was leaving, he says, let me know.
Guest:Anytime you want me to come back, I'll come back.
Guest:Anytime you want me to come back.
Marc:And while you're still listening to the end of this show, go check out our new WTF t-shirts at podswag.com slash WTF or the merch page at WTFpod.com.
Marc:And know that I really love the multicolor 3D one.
Marc:So go get one.
Marc:You can wear it and have people ask, what is that thing?
Marc:And as a WTF, then you'll know.
Marc:the old logo trippy man we also might be getting another one i got aaron draplin involved the fucking genius the uh the uh the logo genius aaron draplin uh is coming up with a a very spectacular shirt uh that i think we might uh we might uh premiere soon okay all right i got i just got a whole shit ton of my uh v pics v pics uh like i freaked out because now i now use a very very specific and fat pic and
Marc:It's the Ed King signature pick that I got from V-Pix.
Marc:Now, Ed King is the original guitar player for Lynyrd Skynyrd, one of them, right?
Marc:And I don't know, you used to order them from V-Pix and you get a card signed...
Marc:by Ed King, and these picks, apparently he used to play with a shell, so they fashioned this, like, it's gotta be a millimeter thick at least, or a millimeter and a half thick with this sort of sanded edge to it, a giant triangle pick, and I started playing with them, they're hard as fuck, and I can't not have them now, and I just got a bag of them from Vinny over at V-Picks.
Marc:because they said they were sold out on the site, so I had to email directly, and he got a hold of me, and he made it happen, man.
Marc:So I just got to give him some props for that.
Marc:If you want to check out, if you're a guitar player, you can go to v-picks.com, and they got a lot of weird picks, but I used the red transparent Ed King signature pick with the sanded edges, and I'm going to play some guitar right now because that's what I do now.
Guest:Boomer lives!