Episode 936 - Sue Costello / Jim Gaffigan

00:00:37Marc:There's been a couple of these because what happens is, as some of you know who listen to the show, I do rarely do interviews with people again.

00:00:49Marc:I'll have them if they're a friend of the show or I like them or they're my pal.

00:00:53Marc:I'll let them do shorties as we call them.

00:00:55Marc:uh to promote something but uh the last few shorties have been a little longer than shorty so i had to put two shorties together and today i got sue costello on the show for a bit and jim gaffigan on show for a bit both of them have some things going on as i do might i tell you about it i am touring a bit of the country now i am getting a lot of tweets from people who are like when are you coming here when are you coming there philly when are you coming to to uh buffalo what whatever it is this is really a tour to sort of um

00:01:25Marc:get an hour in place and, you know, do, you know, work out some stuff.

00:01:32Marc:I imagine I'll do a broader tour in the, maybe the spring, but for now I'll be at Wise Guys in Salt Lake City, Utah, August 3rd and 4th.

00:01:41Marc:I will be at the Comedy Attic in Bloomington, Indiana, August 31st through September 1st.

00:01:48Marc:I'll be at Acme Comedy Club from, that's in Minneapolis, September 6th,

00:01:54Marc:through the 8th, and I will be at the Comedy Works in Denver, Colorado, September 21st and 22nd, and I'll do a one-nighter at Stand Up Live in October.

00:02:04Marc:That's in Phoenix.

00:02:05Marc:Now, all these dates are selling quickly.

00:02:07Marc:Minneapolis is almost sold out.

00:02:09Marc:I don't know where Indiana is at, but if you want to come, you know, come, but get tickets now.

00:02:16Marc:Go to wtfpod.com slash tour for all the links,

00:02:22Marc:And there you go.

00:02:26Marc:So I'm starting to shift a little bit.

00:02:28Marc:I'm starting to shift a bit on the...

00:02:32Marc:on the superhero movie.

00:02:36Marc:Not my argument and not my condescension.

00:02:39Marc:I still have those, but I have found an avenue for some empathy.

00:02:45Marc:And look, I didn't read comic books as a kid.

00:02:50Marc:But I read them as a grown-up, but they weren't the Marvels.

00:02:53Marc:It doesn't matter.

00:02:55Marc:But it kind of does matter.

00:02:57Marc:in terms of when I grew up and what I grew up surrounded with.

00:03:03Marc:And look, when you're a kid, even when you're not a kid, when you're a fucking grownup, you may think you have a good handle on what you let into your brain and how it affects your brain, but you do not.

00:03:12Marc:You've got to have some real resilience and strength of character and ability to process what is affecting your desire system or pummeling your ability to be

00:03:25Marc:Attached to reality in a fairly concerted way, especially if you're a news junkie or, you know, you're constantly engaged with online content.

00:03:35Marc:Your brain, no matter what you think you are, who you think you are, is fairly malleable.

00:03:40Marc:And it can happen on very kind of subtle levels.

00:03:43Marc:You know, I don't know why sometimes when I decide to do something, you know, within a month, I noticed a lot of people are doing it.

00:03:50Marc:And I don't I don't think I'm really susceptible to that stuff, but I am.

00:03:54Marc:Whether it be boots, records, a type of car, you know, like somehow or another, there is a frequency.

00:04:02Marc:There is kind of a vibration in the fucking zeitgeist that generates consolidation of desire around certain products.

00:04:13Marc:But in terms of the superhero movies, like I still am completely on board with my argument.

00:04:18Marc:But you know what?

00:04:19Marc:It was funny because Box Brown, comic book artist, and he did some great books.

00:04:25Marc:His last book was about Andy Kaufman.

00:04:27Marc:It's great.

00:04:28Marc:I read his stuff.

00:04:29Marc:But he was tweeting about this stuff a little bit.

00:04:32Marc:And it kind of provoked me to take a look at it.

00:04:36Marc:There's some interesting stuff about growing up in the 80s where some things went down.

00:04:42Marc:Some things went down in terms of deregulation that may have affected some of you people.

00:04:49Marc:Now, look, by 1981, I'm graduating high school.

00:04:52Marc:By 85, I'm in college, and I'm well on my way to picking through the wreckage of the culture's past to somehow figure out what's exciting and important, whether it be beatniks, Bukowski, the old music, the old movies.

00:05:07Marc:I was on a sort of like pseudo-intellectual trajectory at that point,

00:05:12Marc:which I seem to have completed.

00:05:14Marc:But what I'm trying to say is there was an FCC chairman named Mark Fowler, and this is during the Reagan administration, and they did some fairly serious deregulating that had to do with advertising, but more concisely, to my argument, have something to do with the child brain.

00:05:34Marc:Yes, they they allowed they they sought to declare the television and appliance and not the the incredibly powerful desire shifting hypnotic box that it is.

00:05:46Marc:They were able to get rid of regulations around advertising to children on children's programming.

00:05:51Marc:They could dump as much shit into the kids heads as they wanted to.

00:05:55Marc:OK, and then at this time, like Star Wars, I kind of missed that.

00:05:59Marc:I was young enough, maybe, but it didn't interest me that much.

00:06:02Marc:But after Star Wars, there was this movement towards toys.

00:06:06Marc:And, you know, this isn't specifically about comic books, but after the success of the Star Wars toys.

00:06:11Marc:which happened with a small manufacturer.

00:06:14Marc:The large manufacturers are, what can we do?

00:06:16Marc:And at around the same time, they got the freedom to plow as much shit into kids' heads as they could, and they invented He-Man.

00:06:23Marc:Now, He-Man wasn't even a real comic book character, but they sold the fuck out of that thing, and they built a comic book around it, and they created a show around it.

00:06:32Marc:And they plowed that into the heads of kids, you know, all day long in the 80s.

00:06:39Marc:And they could do this with anything.

00:06:40Marc:Actually, there was plenty of programming, children's programming, with superhero style stuff that was basically just a prolonged advertisement to shove a toy into your kids' hands.

00:06:52Marc:So...

00:06:54Marc:This is a big deal because you were young.

00:06:57Marc:I was too old for this to happen, but I know that some of you who may feel so hurt or upset, maybe you don't even understand why you're so upset with my perfectly reasonable assessment of the problem with superhero movies and its effect on culture, seems like some of you take it very personally.

00:07:16Marc:There's a reactiveness to it, a defensiveness to it that may come from shame that

00:07:22Marc:You know, and I'm like, I might take a step further.

00:07:24Marc:It might come from from what I would almost call trauma in that, you know, when you were a kid, you were brain raped by He-Man.

00:07:33Marc:And I and I feel bad about that, that that Republican deregulations in the 80s enabled toy manufacturers to to let you be brain raped.

00:07:46Marc:by he-man but uh here here's what i'm saying is to some of you who are taking it so personally and so upset you know i i understand i empathize i understand now you were you were brain raped by he-man and you were not old enough to defend yourself and now you just you know you have that little hidden kernel of shame in your heart and and you don't quite understand why but you'll defend superhero movies as if

00:08:14Marc:They're actually going to save the planet.

00:08:20Marc:So that's that part of it.

00:08:24Marc:So there is something that happened analogous to to, you know, allowing the children of our nation to be brain fucked, mind raped by He-Man, thus creating a dysfunctional but almost love for the predator, for the victimizer, for the abuser.

00:08:46Marc:That manifests itself in a shameful sort of connection and adoration and deep, troubling love for superheroes is that around the same time in the 80s, during the deregulation craze of Mark Fowler at the FCC, who started to sort of like get rid of the fairness doctrine.

00:09:09Marc:And over time, it dissolved where equal time had to be granted to both sides if if political pundits or ideologues were appearing on TV shows.

00:09:20Marc:So that was sort of around the same time during Reagan.

00:09:22Marc:That was gotten rid of as well, which opened the door to constant political programming with ideological bias, which was the seeds and the beginning of the unleashing of Fox News and the situation we are in today.

00:09:38Marc:Politically now, culturally and politically.

00:09:41Marc:So there you have two sides of the repercussions and results of deregulation.

00:09:50Marc:Republican leadership in the 80s with Reagan, you have you have a whole generation of kids starting in the mid 80s who are now grown ups and just sort of like, you know, like reactively defend superheroes.

00:10:08Marc:Just shy of stomping up and down.

00:10:10Marc:And you have Donald Trump.

00:10:12Marc:They're two different camps.

00:10:13Marc:I know a lot of the people who are into superheroes are progressive people, but but it's just but it's interesting.

00:10:18Marc:Isn't it interesting?

00:10:19Marc:So Sue Costello, who is my guest, this is a fast paced jaunt here.

00:10:25Marc:She's mounting a production of the I am Sue Costello experience at the Masonic Theater in the Hollywood Forever Cemetery this October.

00:10:32Marc:She set up a GoFundMe page for it at GoFundMe.com slash I am Sue Costello.

00:10:38Marc:You can see more about the productions of the play when she did it in New York and New England at SueCostello.com.

00:10:43Marc:You can also check out her podcast there.

00:10:46Marc:uh sue and i go way back and she she had something to talk about so she came on the show because i like talking to sue costello this is me and sue costello

00:11:01Marc:Is it too intimate?

00:11:02Guest:No, I like it.

00:11:02Marc:To be in a hotel room doing a podcast?

00:11:05Guest:It feels like it's not as big a... Not as big a deal?

00:11:09Guest:Yeah, the old days.

00:11:10Marc:Yeah, it's just like... When we were starting out.

00:11:13Marc:Is this real?

00:11:15Guest:Yeah, I got a great idea, so come out of my hotel room.

00:11:18Guest:Wait a minute, we're not supposed to be having meetings in hotel rooms anymore.

00:11:21Marc:Yeah, not anymore.

00:11:22Marc:This isn't a meeting, this is actually a studio...

00:11:25Marc:It's officially a studio.

00:11:27Marc:No, not just a meeting.

00:11:29Marc:It's all on the level, Sue.

00:11:31Marc:On the level.

00:11:31Guest:Well, I know how to protect myself, so.

00:11:34Marc:Oh, that's right.

00:11:34Marc:You're like, do you still, are you like still, how are you in good shape?

00:11:40Guest:I'm in good shape.

00:11:41Marc:You look like you're in good shape.

00:11:42Guest:Thank you.

00:11:43Marc:What do you do for the exercise?

00:11:45Guest:Yoga.

00:11:46Marc:It's all yoga now?

00:11:47Guest:All yoga.

00:11:48Guest:No jumping around?

00:11:49Guest:No jumping around.

00:11:50Guest:No boxing?

00:11:51Guest:No boxing.

00:11:52Guest:The boxing was a period in time when I had to get all the anger out.

00:11:57Guest:And it's out?

00:11:58Guest:Mm-hmm.

00:11:59Guest:No more anger?

00:12:01Guest:Mm-mm.

00:12:01Guest:Well, it comes in moments and then it passes.

00:12:04Marc:How do you get it to pass?

00:12:05Marc:No, seriously.

00:12:06Marc:Boundaries.

00:12:08Marc:Oh, you mean angry with people in moments?

00:12:10Marc:You have boundaries?

00:12:10Marc:But what if you're just sitting around seething?

00:12:12Marc:What if your brain's just sort of like, well, this stinks and I'm fucked?

00:12:16Guest:It doesn't do that.

00:12:17Marc:It doesn't do it?

00:12:19Marc:Never did?

00:12:19Guest:Yeah, it did.

00:12:20Marc:Oh.

00:12:21Guest:It doesn't do it anymore.

00:12:22Guest:I healed that.

00:12:23Marc:You healed it?

00:12:24Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:12:25Guest:By?

00:12:25Guest:By walking through it.

00:12:27Marc:Yeah?

00:12:27Guest:Yeah, that's when I really learned is that all my work now is all about this...

00:12:32Guest:When theory hits the rub, you know, when the rubber hits the road, when theory hits reality, what is it really?

00:12:38Guest:And how do you really change?

00:12:40Guest:And the whole country now, the isolation is what's killing people.

00:12:43Guest:And I've always, I mean, I've been saying this stuff for 20 years.

00:12:45Guest:Yeah.

00:12:46Guest:I've been saying it for 30 years.

00:12:47Guest:Yeah.

00:12:48Guest:And now it's all coming to fruition, what I've always said, which is the isolation is what was killing us because we were all in our brains and not connecting.

00:12:56Marc:Or now it's separated in our little pods of information, not just in our brains, but now we can now choose which reality we want to engage in while we're sitting there in our brains.

00:13:05Guest:Well, it's also dehumanizing us, which is what I've always talked about.

00:13:08Marc:Dehumanizing how?

00:13:10Guest:Well, we're not considering each other as human being I mean we can get going right now from this from the get-go with this So everybody's talking about how we're gonna turn into computers Yeah, we are gonna turn into computers if something drastic doesn't happen And I believe with every fiber in my body that we were on the verge of one of the biggest spiritual Revolutions that history has ever seen and now we're we're on it now.

00:13:30Guest:Yes, we're on it now.

00:13:31Guest:So there's hope and

00:13:32Guest:Oh my God, there's so much hope.

00:13:34Guest:All there is is hope now.

00:13:36Guest:Yeah?

00:13:36Guest:Yeah, that's all there is.

00:13:37Guest:That's all we got.

00:13:37Guest:Well, because when is humanity going to come together?

00:13:40Guest:When things get really shitty.

00:13:41Guest:When we're about to be extinct.

00:13:43Guest:Yeah.

00:13:43Guest:That's when I have, but I've been saying, I'm telling you for 30 years I've been saying this, and they crush me, crush me, crush me, crush me, crush me, crush me, crush me, crush me.

00:13:50Marc:Did they?

00:13:51Guest:They crush you?

00:13:52Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:13:52Marc:I mean, but not because you were saying that.

00:13:55Guest:Yeah, in a way, because I was saying it, because they didn't want to hear it.

00:13:58Guest:They wanted to do the build up first.

00:14:00Guest:They wanted to do the greed and the money and the whole thing first.

00:14:02Marc:Right.

00:14:03Marc:So are you abiding by any prophecy other than your own?

00:14:07Marc:No.

00:14:09Marc:No.

00:14:09Guest:I'm trusting the force.

00:14:11Marc:Yeah.

00:14:11Marc:The force that you have harnessed.

00:14:13Guest:yes and you know what's weird is i really have harnessed it because so we were just talking about uh being defensive before we turned on the mics right so what i realized no one knows that about me so now everybody i mean everybody's defensive and like so so i'm from boston i was and i all i believe that we all come into the world of course yeah pure yeah and then we get for about about a day

00:14:38Guest:Well, we get, depending on the situation.

00:14:40Guest:Okay.

00:14:41Guest:So what I figured out is that we all come into the world pure.

00:14:44Guest:Yeah.

00:14:44Guest:And the second we exit the womb, we are body autonomous.

00:14:47Guest:Yeah.

00:14:48Guest:So no mother, no person outside of you can do anything.

00:14:52Guest:You are like on your own.

00:14:54Marc:Kinda.

00:14:55Marc:Yeah.

00:14:55Marc:No, I mean, the second you come out of your womb, I, I've, I've, what my understanding is you, you can't just, uh, you know, start your life on your own at that point.

00:15:03Guest:Well, because you need somebody to take care of you up until the point that, yes, and they need to pay the rent for you.

00:15:09Marc:Protect you, feed you, teach you how to speak, you know, that stuff.

00:15:14Guest:Right, but even that is formed through society.

00:15:18Marc:Sure, yes.

00:15:19Guest:Socialization is taught through society.

00:15:22Marc:But there's a symbiotic thing that happens between you and your mother, even if it is disrupted.

00:15:27Marc:There is a primal union that you are in with them.

00:15:32Marc:And it happens on a psychic level and biological level.

00:15:36Guest:Which brings us, we're going right at it.

00:15:37Guest:So the human thing, I feel like we're on the verge of a spiritual revolution.

00:15:43Guest:And so you're talking about the moms and the primal connection.

00:15:47Guest:So yes, our mom is our primary caregiver.

00:15:49Guest:So what's going on with the men nowadays is...

00:15:51Guest:is it's all mommy issues it's mommy and daddy issues what's going on with the women and the men actually but but for women we can turn from our primary caregiver to have sex men can't yeah men have to have sex with the same sex well if you're straight yeah same sex as their primary caregiver so it's much more complicated for men yeah we're once removed so now how does this all factor into what's happening with you now

00:16:14Guest:Well, since I started my career, I always talked about love.

00:16:19Guest:I listened to the first WTF yesterday.

00:16:21Guest:That we did.

00:16:22Guest:I had never listened to it before.

00:16:23Guest:Seven years ago.

00:16:24Guest:Never listened to it before.

00:16:25Guest:And I was like, oh my God.

00:16:27Guest:Everything I talked about then, I wasn't conscious of yet.

00:16:31Marc:Yeah.

00:16:31Guest:But I knew it.

00:16:32Marc:But you were coming out of some pretty hard times.

00:16:34Guest:And as I was coming out of some really hard times, but now I'm like, oh, I had to go through those hard times.

00:16:40Guest:Like, so now I have perspective and now I look back and I go, I, I almost brought it on myself so that I could.

00:16:47Guest:Oh yeah.

00:16:47Guest:It's like the hero's journey is what happened to me.

00:16:49Marc:sure sure like that you do have you been reading some joseph campbell no people told me about it though and it sounds like the same thing i mean i think that here's the thing too these stories they're all the same sure of course they are if you if you do actually train if you do get through the hardships and then rise above them to a different place if there's a transformation yes that's a hero's journey you don't want the anti-hero's journey

00:17:13Guest:But there are a lot of people that are anti-heroes.

00:17:15Marc:Oh, the streets are filled with them.

00:17:17Guest:Yes.

00:17:17Guest:And you cannot save those people.

00:17:19Marc:So let's break it down just from what we talked about so far.

00:17:22Marc:Because you're putting together a new show, right?

00:17:24Guest:I'm putting together.

00:17:25Guest:I have so much going on.

00:17:28Marc:But the show is going to save humanity.

00:17:30Guest:No.

00:17:31Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:17:32Guest:Tell them that, Mike.

00:17:33Guest:That would be great.

00:17:34Guest:That's hilarious because then they'll twist it and be like Sue.

00:17:37Guest:And then it will be all good.

00:17:38Guest:You just set me up to go all the way down by saying that.

00:17:40Guest:That's all they need is that one sound clip.

00:17:42Marc:I do not have that much power.

00:17:44Guest:Yes.

00:17:44Guest:That's all they need is that one sound clip.

00:17:46Guest:And then they'll say I said it.

00:17:48Guest:And they'll say Sue Costello said she was going to save you there.

00:17:50Marc:I don't think anyone's that concerned about either of us.

00:17:53Marc:And I'll tell you, Sue, if it goes viral that you're going to save humanity, then it'll be a good first week of the show.

00:18:00Guest:But I'll have to really live up to that.

00:18:02Guest:That will be a lot to live up to.

00:18:03Marc:No, don't pressure yourself.

00:18:04Marc:From what you're telling me.

00:18:05Guest:You're totally setting me up right now.

00:18:06Marc:No, from what you've told me, you've been sort of saving humanity for 30 years.

00:18:11Guest:But that's it.

00:18:11Guest:It's funny how you're saying you're taking my words, you're twisting and you're sending it out on your podcast.

00:18:16Guest:And so your listeners are going to listen to what you said.

00:18:18Guest:And I didn't say that.

00:18:19Marc:OK, well, what you said is that we are on the verge of a spiritual catharsis.

00:18:24Guest:And you turn that into me saying I'm saving humanity.

00:18:27Guest:So how did you get to that?

00:18:29Marc:How I got to that was that, you know, you talked about love, you talked about personal transformation, you talked about knowing what's happening, what's going to happen 30 years ago, and that you have a lot of hope.

00:18:39Marc:So I was figuring the arts you're putting into the world is going to be proactive.

00:18:42Marc:I exaggerated.

00:18:43Guest:Absolutely proactive.

00:18:45Guest:And maybe, I don't know, maybe I'm underestimating myself.

00:18:47Guest:Maybe it will help humanity.

00:18:49Marc:Well, I would hope so.

00:18:50Marc:It sounds like from where you're coming from, sure it will.

00:18:52Guest:Well, so I've been doing the play.

00:18:54Guest:I have my podcast.

00:18:56Marc:The same play or how's that evolved?

00:18:58Guest:Same play.

00:18:58Marc:What's it called again?

00:18:59Guest:I am Sue Costello.

00:19:00Marc:Right.

00:19:01Marc:And it's on your pants.

00:19:02Marc:It's on the label of your jean pants, your shorts.

00:19:05Guest:Hashtag I am Sue Costello.

00:19:07Marc:Yeah.

00:19:07Guest:So it used to be called minus 32 million words when I was here.

00:19:10Marc:Did you make those labels for your shorts?

00:19:11Guest:No, somebody made them for me.

00:19:12Marc:Oh, that's nice.

00:19:13Guest:It's cool, right?

00:19:14Marc:Yeah.

00:19:14Marc:Who?

00:19:15Marc:Who makes labels for your shorts?

00:19:16Marc:Some lady.

00:19:17Marc:I have your hashtag on.

00:19:18Marc:Oh, yeah?

00:19:19Guest:Yeah.

00:19:19Marc:Okay.

00:19:20Guest:And all the girls are like, oh, those are cool.

00:19:21Guest:Oh, those are cool.

00:19:22Guest:And then you just do a little bit of branding.

00:19:23Guest:That's what I said to you when you were on Good Morning America this morning.

00:19:26Guest:Yeah.

00:19:26Guest:The visual of you.

00:19:27Guest:Yeah.

00:19:28Guest:People, visual is important, especially nowadays.

00:19:30Guest:They don't have the attention span.

00:19:31Guest:So even though you felt like it went fast, they still got the visual of you on the TV.

00:19:36Guest:And that might be enough for people to register nowadays.

00:19:38Marc:Sure.

00:19:38Marc:Yeah, I don't take it too seriously.

00:19:40Marc:Not as seriously as I used to.

00:19:41Marc:You know, I dressed up nice and I comb my hair and I showed up and I was present and I answered the questions and I talked about my show and then I left.

00:19:50Guest:That's good, but then you don't get so emotionally involved and you're like, okay, there you go.

00:19:52Guest:There's another little...

00:19:53Marc:Yeah, I guess.

00:19:55Marc:After you do, there's another little, there's another little, there's another little.

00:19:58Marc:Do they all add up?

00:19:59Marc:I don't know.

00:19:59Marc:From what you said at the beginning, that people are isolated in their minds, and now because of the computer, they're stuck in a sort of a non-reality that's disconnected from real people.

00:20:11Marc:Where is it really going?

00:20:12Marc:What's really happening?

00:20:13Marc:Does it register at all?

00:20:14Marc:Or is it just moms getting their kids ready for school?

00:20:17Marc:They look over at the computer and go, that guy's got a trimmed beard, and then they turn away, and that's the end of it.

00:20:22Marc:I don't know.

00:20:22Guest:but uh which goes back to again that everybody has this theory that we're going to turn into computers we're creating these computers that are going to be more powerful and smart than us and they're going to take over they're already here right the singularity you're talking about yes yes the ai all that stuff so my theory is not my theory yeah my soul belief my whole purpose for being on this earth is to talk about humanity yeah because i feel like that's the whole humanity and humility

00:20:48Guest:Well, yeah.

00:20:49Guest:Humility is so strong, though.

00:20:51Guest:That's what I'm learning, is when you crush the ego, the humility gets you everything.

00:20:55Marc:Sure.

00:20:56Marc:The ego kills you.

00:20:58Marc:Yeah, because you're now fully present with your heart.

00:21:02Guest:What I've been working on is transcending all of it, transcending gender, transcending race, going to the spirit.

00:21:08Guest:And so I've been doing this human guinea pig exercise.

00:21:12Guest:I've been like this human forensic accountant of like what's really going on.

00:21:18Marc:And what activities do you do to do that?

00:21:20Guest:Well, I just, I show up no matter what fear comes.

00:21:23Guest:Everybody says to me, Sue, how do you cope?

00:21:24Guest:And I'm like, it's not coping.

00:21:25Guest:What I'm actually doing is I'm actually engaging in life.

00:21:28Guest:And that's why I think people...

00:21:29Guest:aren't doing because we're taught we have been grind down so much to not have any feelings and we all have feelings so and i it's my belief that it's all coming out on the earth now it's all i mean i this was the play years ago and i did i wrote it before i knew it was going to happen yeah so what's going on internally is happening externally to ourselves we're actually doing it to ourselves with the energy

00:21:49Guest:sure yeah i agree with that yeah so what i've been doing is is trying to walk through the fear in my brain the isolation that keeps me this like this film it's almost like i want to say the wizard of oz i want to say that you see all those things that say behind that little veil of fear is everything you ever wanted yeah crabs in a bucket i called it in my play there's like four people that told you you can't do something and then there's 75 million that believe you can uh-huh but to break through those four break through what's in your head yeah sure

00:22:18Guest:And I've been reading and studying and listening to people my whole career.

00:22:22Guest:That's all I've been doing.

00:22:23Guest:Because all I've done is suffered sexism my whole career.

00:22:25Guest:I've literally been, they've taken my money, they've grabbed my ass, they've done everything that's happened now, I've already been to all of it.

00:22:34Guest:Assault as well?

00:22:35Guest:assault in terms of like uh grabbing your ass is assault right but that like but like uh what what other things like um like when you say that i've never been raped so the point as i was coming down on the train i was thinking and i'm learning like i would have been with somebody that said why don't they just say something

00:22:52Guest:yeah and so i read about it and it's like it literally says that women don't say anything because they're they can't even speak yeah because they're saying this isn't happening yeah and i was like oh yeah that that happens in life when you haven't even when you haven't been raped either you a lot of resistance to what's going on is like this isn't happening so we can't take care of ourselves so the trauma the abuse and then i read about how when they uh

00:23:20Guest:when a rape victim goes on trial, what they do is they try to trigger the PTSD.

00:23:25Guest:And I was like, oh, that's what's going on.

00:23:27Guest:That's why they had this whole Me Too movement because of all the abuse that's been going on.

00:23:31Guest:So I was thinking, okay, so I don't know what it's like to be raped, but I know what it's like to be abused.

00:23:35Guest:So I'm like, well, why don't I try to lean into all of this for all of us?

00:23:39Guest:Let me see if I can lean in because I don't have that extra pain, which I can't even imagine.

00:23:45Guest:And let me see if I can...

00:23:46Guest:research it and then articulate it for women great so that we can change that's great yeah so how you doing that so i did it started last time well i did it with the play i've been doing it with the play all along i had no idea what i was doing does the play evolve the play is completely evolving and not only is it evolving so now it's i did it uh two weeks ago and it was the first time i felt comfortable enough to have a talk back afterwards oh wow

00:24:10Guest:Because, you know, you're vulnerable putting yourself out there.

00:24:13Guest:I'm like, but I want to see because this brand that I'm building is all about building community, letting people talk, all for solution though.

00:24:20Guest:Sure.

00:24:20Guest:Not for division.

00:24:21Guest:Everybody's so divided.

00:24:22Guest:I'm like, let's go.

00:24:22Guest:I want to just give them a role model of something that's completely different than what's out there right now.

00:24:27Guest:Yeah.

00:24:27Guest:And especially for younger women, like I want them to have a role model that's like, oh, it's cool to get older.

00:24:33Guest:Oh, you get smarter as you get older if you don't give up.

00:24:36Guest:Like, oh, you get more power as you get older.

00:24:38Guest:Yeah.

00:24:39Guest:So that's I want to become just something else that people can look at, like almost turning the lens.

00:24:43Guest:I don't want to change the world.

00:24:44Guest:I just want to turn the lens a little and go, if you don't like what's going on over there, look at this and see if maybe this is what you like.

00:24:49Marc:Right, or whether you can take action within the world that you exist in for yourself that will be proactive and have a change there.

00:24:59Guest:And also, it's okay to be in the world that you exist in, which is another thing that's causing human beings a ton of pain where they taught us, like, you've got to be rich, you've got to be this, you've got to be that, you've got to be this.

00:25:09Guest:And, like, people that do blue-collar jobs, like, the middle class has been wiped out because of...

00:25:15Guest:all this like uh of the advertising and i'm telling you need to be rich and the addiction and everybody thinking they need more and get being more than their neighbors and more more more more more yeah and i talked about this six years ago you can go back and listen to the idea of like not being in the present like i was on stage one night and this guy's like i said what do you do and he's like well i'm a mechanic it's not that great of a job and i was like why i'm like everybody drives we all need mechanics and his whole face lit up

00:25:40Marc:yeah right because he's judging himself against what we have grown to believe success is yes because of cultural pressure and and status but he wants to be a mechanic and so this whole but he's been taught by the culture that that's not worthy that's not enough

00:25:58Guest:he's just literally torturing himself for no reason because he doesn't need to torture himself and he is very valuable to us absolutely and so that's the idea this whole middle class thing has been wiped out it's like that was america that was the heart of america the middle class you were allowed to not capitalism was supposed to be you take risks and you get to build a business and you get to make more money

00:26:19Guest:Yeah.

00:26:20Guest:If you want to do that, the middle class and then the people that were poor.

00:26:23Guest:And yes, some of the people that are poor, they do take advantage of the system.

00:26:26Guest:It's just part of the equation.

00:26:29Guest:Like if you own a bar.

00:26:30Guest:Yeah.

00:26:30Guest:When you do the accounting of the bar, you factor in that you're going to get stolen from.

00:26:35Guest:Right.

00:26:36Guest:It's just part of life.

00:26:38Guest:Like all this resistance to this perfection and how it should be is what's caught.

00:26:42Guest:I mean, and all the spiritual leaders talk about this, this separateness and that causes us to.

00:26:46Marc:So what about what are some of the other things that you talked about?

00:26:49Marc:Because when you came in, you were excited about how much of what you said you were going to do.

00:26:53Marc:You did.

00:26:54Marc:Okay.

00:26:55Marc:So what is it?

00:26:56Guest:So I listened yesterday.

00:26:57Guest:So Lawrence Fishburne and Les Moonves were two people that I talked about six years ago.

00:27:02Guest:Yeah.

00:27:02Guest:And I talked about how Les Moonves always believed in me.

00:27:04Marc:When you had the show, when Costello was on.

00:27:07Guest:Before Costello.

00:27:08Guest:He's the first guy to give me my deal.

00:27:09Marc:Yeah.

00:27:10Marc:And for the show that ran- No, he gave me my first deal and I did a pilot.

00:27:14Marc:Yeah.

00:27:15Guest:And then from that pilot, I was supposed to be on Murphy Brown.

00:27:18Guest:Right.

00:27:19Guest:But what happened with Murphy, which is so funny because Murphy Brown's coming back.

00:27:22Guest:It's like everything's coming full circle.

00:27:24Guest:Yeah.

00:27:24Yeah.

00:27:24Guest:So what I found out later on is he wanted to keep me on CBS.

00:27:27Guest:I was supposed to go to ABC.

00:27:28Guest:And so he kind of pushed me on Murphy Brown and she wasn't having it.

00:27:31Guest:And there was a great example of pitting women against each other.

00:27:36Guest:Yeah.

00:27:36Guest:Because I thought it was Murphy Brown all the time.

00:27:38Guest:And I mean, Candace Bergen and it wasn't.

00:27:39Guest:I'm like, it makes sense that she flexed her muscles back.

00:27:42Guest:Yeah.

00:27:42Guest:I didn't know.

00:27:43Guest:I was just a pawn.

00:27:44Guest:It wasn't her.

00:27:44Guest:She didn't want to be pushed around, which makes sense.

00:27:47Marc:Sure.

00:27:47Guest:Especially back then being a woman.

00:27:49Guest:I mean, can you imagine now in hindsight?

00:27:51Marc:You got your little piece, you know, and now someone.

00:27:53Marc:Yeah.

00:27:53Guest:And then she's like, who's this young girl coming in as the star and they're going to use my show?

00:27:57Marc:Yeah.

00:27:57Guest:In my head, I thought it was a great move because I thought I was going to learn from somebody.

00:28:01Guest:Yeah.

00:28:01Marc:Right.

00:28:02Marc:But she didn't see it that way.

00:28:03Marc:She didn't know you.

00:28:03Guest:No.

00:28:04Guest:Right.

00:28:04Guest:And now that I'm older and smarter, I'm like, of course she didn't.

00:28:08Guest:That was naive of me, but I didn't know.

00:28:09Guest:So then what happened?

00:28:10Guest:A couple years before that I met with ABC.

00:28:12Guest:ABC came to me because Katie Couric's show got canceled.

00:28:15Guest:Yeah.

00:28:15Guest:And they wanted me to take over for Katie Couric.

00:28:17Guest:They wanted me to do a talk show.

00:28:18Guest:Yeah.

00:28:19Guest:And I thought back to when I had my TV shows, when I had the TV deals, the head of MGM kept saying to me, Sue, you need to do a talk show because you have Oprah-like qualities.

00:28:28Guest:And at the time, I didn't have the self-esteem, and I was like, but I'm a sitcom person.

00:28:32Guest:So then ABC came to me, so I was like, all right, maybe this is the way I should go.

00:28:35Guest:Okay, maybe this is the way I should go.

00:28:36Guest:So I go and I meet with them.

00:28:38Guest:And I told them that I wanted to do my talk show and my talk show was going to be because the celebrity myth was breaking.

00:28:43Guest:Uh-huh.

00:28:43Guest:It was over because of social media.

00:28:45Guest:Yeah.

00:28:45Guest:I wanted to bring humanity back to everybody so that we could all, so it wouldn't turn into a big mess.

00:28:51Guest:Right.

00:28:52Guest:And so I wanted to do a talk show where I had a celebrity.

00:28:54Guest:Uh-huh.

00:28:54Guest:And you were there, my hope trumps fear, a storytelling event.

00:28:57Guest:So I did that storytelling event with Trump's name in it a long time ago.

00:29:01Marc:I was on the show, right?

00:29:03Guest:Yes.

00:29:03Guest:And so I've been forecasting stuff before it's happened long before it even happened.

00:29:06Guest:So that storytelling event was where you had to tell a story where hope overcame fear.

00:29:10Guest:Yeah.

00:29:11Guest:And it was hilarious watching you and a couple other people who are very cynical have to come around to hope.

00:29:16Guest:That was one of the funniest part of the whole thing was to watch.

00:29:18Marc:Watch Mark come around to hope.

00:29:20Guest:Yes, to set up like the perimeters where somebody had to find the hope in the story.

00:29:24Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:29:25Guest:Okay.

00:29:26Guest:And everybody said that was the best night they ever had.

00:29:28Guest:So all these things that I've done along the way have shown me

00:29:30Guest:i'm on to something yeah i'm on to something my tv show they said i was ahead of my time back then i look back at my tv show now i was talking about the disenfranchised middle class white men back then yeah i just didn't know what i was talking about yet so uh so i go to abc and so i pitched in this tv show about how i want to draw the lines the similarities the humanity between the regular people and the celebrities and then i and i was going to create a show where where celebrities could come on and and uh

00:29:59Guest:Handle their own image instead of like the stuff like TMZ and everything was so out of control I'm like they're gonna be excited about coming on because they're gonna be able to talk about what they want to talk about who they really are and I'm a safe person to do that with which is why the hope Trump's fear Storytelling event worked because I'm safe.

00:30:14Guest:Yeah, same thing happened when I hosted later Larry Flint came on Yeah, and he was so afraid I was gonna attack him for porn and I wanted to talk to him about what it was like to take a bullet for something you believed in.

00:30:23Guest:Yeah

00:30:23Guest:So my mind never goes to judging people.

00:30:27Guest:It goes to finding out why they do what they do and empowering people.

00:30:30Marc:Do you ever think about starting a podcast?

00:30:32Guest:I have.

00:30:33Guest:I just started my I Am Sue Costello podcast, the new version of it.

00:30:37Guest:I have like 11 episodes of it.

00:30:40Guest:Can people get them?

00:30:41Guest:Yeah, they can get it on iTunes and at my website.

00:30:43Guest:So back to ABC.

00:30:44Guest:So I pitched the show, I pitched the show, I pitched the show.

00:30:47Guest:Now they want me to take over for Katie Couric.

00:30:48Guest:Katie Couric is like an empathetic...

00:30:52Marc:Yeah.

00:30:52Marc:I've talked to her.

00:30:53Marc:She's nice.

00:30:54Marc:Yeah.

00:30:54Guest:And so they're like, oh, you mean like Chelsea Handler?

00:30:58Guest:And I go, no.

00:31:00Guest:I wanted to do it.

00:31:01Guest:Yeah.

00:31:01Guest:But I wanted to do this show that I wanted to do.

00:31:03Marc:Not Chelsea Handler.

00:31:04Marc:You didn't want to be bitchy.

00:31:06Marc:You're not that person.

00:31:07Guest:I didn't say that, but I'm just not that.

00:31:09Marc:I wanted to be me.

00:31:09Marc:She'd be fine with it.

00:31:10Guest:Okay, I just wanted to be me.

00:31:12Guest:That's all I've ever wanted to be.

00:31:13Guest:And everybody's like, no, you're them.

00:31:14Guest:And I'm like, no, I'm me.

00:31:15Guest:You seem pretty you.

00:31:16Guest:You've always seemed pretty you.

00:31:17Guest:I don't know who was arguing that, but I believe you.

00:31:19Guest:They all have been.

00:31:20Guest:Yet they are, and to their defense, like they did put me on TV.

00:31:24Marc:Well, what happens is, is when you have a big personality, an expansive personality that is not narrow, they just project onto you.

00:31:32Marc:Do you know what I mean?

00:31:33Marc:Like I used to think it was stifling, but like it's misunderstanding.

00:31:37Marc:They don't know the breadth of...

00:31:38Marc:of your uh compassion your emotions your empathy whatever they just see you as like oh you're that girl you're the girl that talks like that and you kick some ass and that's great oh which is funny too so we were talking about the defensiveness in the beginning so what i realize is that i am kind inside but when somebody would

00:31:55Guest:attack that kind of kindness because that's what i'm realizing about human nature is that people attack the love and i talked about this on the seven years ago about about love being the only answer and people talk about that all the time and everybody's like what does that mean and our aversion to love this is what the aversion is to love this is what i've been doing for seven years it's that we attack it in each other because we don't believe it's true so as much as when something bad's happening we say this isn't happening

00:32:17Guest:Same thing happens when something good is happening.

00:32:19Guest:So we attack it.

00:32:20Guest:And so the people that are being attacked take on the attack and act out from the attack.

00:32:25Guest:So you can talk about that from the sexual.

00:32:27Guest:You can talk about that from the physical.

00:32:29Guest:You become what happened to you and you act out on it or you become quiet and you become complicit.

00:32:34Marc:And either way, those can be mistaken as personalities and they're not.

00:32:37Marc:They're reactions.

00:32:38Yeah.

00:32:38Guest:And the flip side of that is the people that are doing the abusing do the same thing.

00:32:42Guest:They create this kind of monster that's separate of them, separate from the experience so that they can commit the crime and what they're doing.

00:32:48Marc:Right, yeah.

00:32:48Marc:I used to do, I have a line, a joke that I used to, I think I did on my last special where I said, it was something I wrote down.

00:32:55Marc:It's hard to manage the monster I created to protect the kid inside.

00:32:59Marc:Exactly.

00:33:00Guest:That's what my play is all about, about this scary monster and this idea that I have been projecting all the things that have been happening to me from my own body.

00:33:08Marc:And this is your way of purging that.

00:33:10Marc:So what happened with the ABC deal?

00:33:11Guest:So ABC, I met with them, I met with them, I met with them.

00:33:13Guest:And then I was like, I'm not coming here anymore.

00:33:15Guest:They don't get me.

00:33:16Marc:Right.

00:33:17Guest:And it was a big risk because I didn't have any money.

00:33:20Guest:Yeah.

00:33:20Guest:And I remember when I walked, but I walked out of there and they were like, we know, Sue, you're a badass.

00:33:23Guest:If we don't get on the Sue Costello bandwagon, it's going to take off or whatever.

00:33:27Guest:And I'm like, whatever.

00:33:28Guest:And I leave and this big, huge wave comes over my body and it goes, well, that wasn't very feminine.

00:33:33Guest:Mm-hmm.

00:33:34Guest:If I went along with what they were trying to do, which was make me into what they wanted me to be, that would have been feminine to me.

00:33:43Guest:That's how I've been socialized.

00:33:44Marc:Were they women?

00:33:46Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:33:46Marc:So you thought, like, I should believe them.

00:33:49Marc:Like, you know, that's what their idea was, that you should just go along with them.

00:33:53Guest:Who am I to say no?

00:33:54Marc:To a bunch of powerful ladies.

00:33:55Guest:There we go.

00:33:56Guest:Yeah.

00:33:57Guest:There we go.

00:33:57Guest:Right there.

00:33:58Guest:I want to say that very slowly.

00:33:59Guest:Okay.

00:34:00Guest:Who am I to say no?

00:34:02Guest:And you got to get rid of that question.

00:34:04Okay.

00:34:04Guest:It just hit me so deeply, like the same thing with men touching you, the same thing.

00:34:11Guest:It's so ingrained into our brain.

00:34:14Guest:Who am I to say no?

00:34:15Guest:And this people-pleasing and this caretaking men and all this stuff that socialized into us.

00:34:21Guest:So in a way, I was still doing the dance.

00:34:22Guest:Like, I'm going to tell you not to treat me that way, but then I want you to take care of me.

00:34:26Guest:That's the other thing.

00:34:27Guest:Men are supposed to take care of you.

00:34:28Guest:which is making me laugh so hard.

00:34:29Guest:I'm like, men can't even tie their fucking shoes and we're like gabdicating our power to them.

00:34:33Guest:And the reason why everybody's so mad is because they have built their careers on our backs.

00:34:38Guest:Men have built their careers on our backs.

00:34:40Guest:So everybody's like screaming at the men like you can't do it anymore.

00:34:42Guest:I'm like, well, they don't have a plan B. That's all they know.

00:34:45Guest:Like you gotta, we gotta talk through it.

00:34:47Guest:We gotta figure out a solution, not, because they're getting more mad.

00:34:50Guest:Patriarchy's a motherfucker.

00:34:51Guest:They're getting more mad.

00:34:52Guest:Literally.

00:34:53Guest:Literally a motherfucker.

00:34:54Ha ha ha.

00:34:55Guest:so i leave abc and i say that wasn't very feminine and i go well i better pay attention to that because if i never had left abc i would have continued the repetition of thinking that that's feminine yeah yeah so then last summer and then ifc saw me on stage and they were like oh my god oh my god oh my god i never saw a woman on stage talk about what it's like to be a woman without being angry

00:35:15Guest:And so I started realizing, I'm like, the reason why I'm not angry is because I processed it all before this all started happening.

00:35:20Guest:So I don't, I'm not getting re-triggered by what's going on in the public.

00:35:23Marc:That's the wisdom of age thing.

00:35:24Guest:Yes.

00:35:24Guest:And also of, I don't know, because age, sometimes if you don't grow, can collapse on you.

00:35:29Marc:Doing the work.

00:35:30Marc:Yeah.

00:35:30Guest:Can collapse on you.

00:35:31Guest:Well, I just always knew I wasn't going to settle, even though I didn't know what was going to come of it.

00:35:35Guest:I didn't want to settle.

00:35:36Guest:And I knew it was going to be painful.

00:35:37Guest:And I knew I was going to act out.

00:35:39Guest:You know, I'd make mistakes.

00:35:40Guest:And I'm like, but isn't that living?

00:35:41Guest:Yeah.

00:35:41Guest:Yeah, yeah, sure.

00:35:43Guest:So I went against everything that everybody was trying to do, which was put us in a box.

00:35:45Guest:Yeah.

00:35:46Guest:And I went through that whole hard time.

00:35:49Guest:I went through with the world and everything.

00:35:50Marc:Yeah.

00:35:50Guest:What this world's going through.

00:35:51Guest:I went through that personally.

00:35:53Marc:Yeah.

00:35:53Marc:Yeah, absolutely.

00:35:54Marc:I was concerned.

00:35:55Guest:There was no need to be concerned whatsoever.

00:35:58Guest:And the other thing I want to.

00:35:59Guest:OK, so the other thing that they so they wrote on the WTF that I did.

00:36:03Guest:They wrote, she's a cunt.

00:36:05Guest:No, I need to tell you.

00:36:07Guest:I need to say this.

00:36:08Guest:So they said, she's a cunt.

00:36:09Guest:She should be thankful for the old lady and the therapist that were helping her.

00:36:14Guest:And yesterday when I listened to it, the old lady.

00:36:16Marc:You mean on the comment board we used to have?

00:36:18Marc:Yes.

00:36:18Marc:And so the old lady.

00:36:19Marc:Not there anymore.

00:36:20Marc:Go ahead.

00:36:20Guest:The old lady and the therapist.

00:36:22Guest:I told the story of how the therapist and the old lady were trying to take advantage of me financially.

00:36:27Guest:And they said, what a cunt.

00:36:30Guest:She should be grateful that they were helping her.

00:36:33Guest:And now looking back, I'm like, oh, isn't that interesting?

00:36:36Guest:I was speaking up for taking care of myself financially and I got called to cunt.

00:36:40Guest:That is what happens in the world all the time.

00:36:44Guest:And then I researched the history of the word cunt.

00:36:47Guest:How was that for you?

00:36:48Guest:Initially it was just like vagina.

00:36:50Guest:It was just a word for private parts.

00:36:52Guest:And then Shakespeare made it crude but not derogatory.

00:36:56Guest:But then during suffrage is when they used it as a derogatory.

00:37:00Guest:So that's what they're trying.

00:37:01Guest:That's when it stuck.

00:37:03Guest:That's when it stuck.

00:37:05Guest:so yeah so they use that to try to do that i'm like whatever i don't care what you call me i don't care you can tell me i'm great you can say i don't care so um but i will walk away if you talk poorly to me yeah but it's not going to affect me because i walk away yeah so anyway so they do the abc i leave abc so then last summer i have sees like i never saw that and i'm like okay something's happening something's happening with what i'm doing i remember colin quinn saying to me a long time ago about when i did this joke on stage about how we're ruining the men yeah

00:37:30Guest:We're turning them into women.

00:37:32Guest:And Colin's like, keep going with that.

00:37:34Guest:So I've added it all up.

00:37:35Guest:And I'm like, this is what's becoming me.

00:37:38Guest:I am Sue Costell.

00:37:39Guest:So last summer I was like, all of a sudden I was sitting at my desk and there's been so many, like you want to talk about, I don't care what you call it.

00:37:46Guest:I don't care if you call it God.

00:37:47Guest:I don't care if you call it love.

00:37:48Guest:I don't care if you call it the force.

00:37:50Guest:it will guide you if you let it and it's very quiet and it's not loud loud is ego love is quiet and i keep thinking they they have books about people saying when they die it's all about love and everybody's like what does it mean what does love mean it doesn't mean this childish like everything's going to be awesome love it means

00:38:12Guest:exerting yourself like the book the road less traveled says love is an exertion love is non-attachment they even do it in weddings but does anybody ever listen it's like it really means like you go the extra mile it doesn't mean you let people treat you like shit it means you go a little further you just go and that's what i'm trying to do i'm trying to i am i'm not trying i'm going a little further to see if maybe

00:38:36Guest:I can affect some change.

00:38:38Guest:So I was sitting at my, I was like, what should I do?

00:38:40Guest:What should I do?

00:38:40Guest:They want me to do a talk show.

00:38:41Guest:I don't know.

00:38:41Guest:And then I, it just came, the voice came to me, go to Les Moonves.

00:38:45Guest:CBS.

00:38:46Guest:CBS.

00:38:46Guest:The big guy.

00:38:47Guest:The big guy.

00:38:48Guest:The guy who first gave you the deal.

00:38:50Guest:Yes.

00:38:50Guest:And the reason why I wanted to go to him, like life can be very simple.

00:38:55Guest:And it's all about not in your intention.

00:38:58Guest:You're not judged on your intentions, but the intention behind your action is what causes your effect.

00:39:02Guest:So I wanted to go back to him because he was the one that helped me first because that's who I am.

00:39:08Guest:So you want to talk about purity.

00:39:10Guest:So I just email him.

00:39:11Guest:I say, Les, will you meet with me?

00:39:13Guest:He goes, sure.

00:39:14Guest:I flew myself to LA.

00:39:15Guest:I didn't even have money for a flight ticket back.

00:39:17Guest:That's how much faith I had.

00:39:19Guest:And what happened?

00:39:19Guest:I fly to LA.

00:39:20Marc:Where'd you go?

00:39:21Marc:Where'd you meet?

00:39:21Guest:In his office.

00:39:22Guest:And I sat down and I told him what was going on.

00:39:24Guest:I went for advice because I was like, they want me to do a talk show.

00:39:29Guest:And I don't know if I should do another sitcom, but I'm ready to do something.

00:39:33Guest:Because I definitely have my point of view and I'm, you know, I have the experience, everything.

00:39:36Guest:And so he was like, you have to do a sitcom.

00:39:39Guest:And so then we were sitting there talking in his office and then all of a sudden at one point he was like, you're a really good person.

00:39:46Guest:And I was like, yeah, I don't want to be greedy.

00:39:50Guest:My whole life, I've always said this.

00:39:51Guest:Even when I had my TV show the first time, I'm like, I don't want a plane.

00:39:54Guest:I want people to love each other.

00:39:56Guest:That's what my mission in life is.

00:39:58Guest:So then all of a sudden in the room it was amazing because it turned.

00:40:02Guest:It went from almost like, and everybody kept saying to me, who are you going to meet with God?

00:40:06Guest:That's amazing.

00:40:07Guest:Going to meet with God.

00:40:08Guest:And I kept saying, he's not my God.

00:40:09Guest:God's my God.

00:40:10Guest:And then I thought, isn't that interesting?

00:40:12Guest:That's what a lot of people, a lot of have this vision of this like white male God.

00:40:17Guest:And then I'm like, what is this image of what we have to be this God, right?

00:40:21Guest:This powerful person.

00:40:22Guest:So I was like, and the reason why he gave me my deal is because I always treated him regular.

00:40:26Guest:So I'm sitting in his office.

00:40:28Guest:He asked me how I've been making a living, which at the time I didn't realize wasn't a good question.

00:40:34Guest:And so I purposely said to him, I've been broke.

00:40:38Guest:Most people would never say that because you're afraid, A, that you'll be embarrassed, or B, that they'll take advantage of you.

00:40:44Guest:And I consciously said, let's see what he does with that information.

00:40:47Guest:And it was so amazing because in the room...

00:40:50Guest:It went from me meeting him to him almost like trying to get me to work with him.

00:40:55Guest:And then he stood up and his whole body shook and he was like, I think you're ready for what's about to happen to you.

00:41:01Guest:So what's the deal?

00:41:02Guest:Executive producer, star of my own TV show.

00:41:06Marc:That's great.

00:41:08Guest:And so then they flew me out there.

00:41:10Guest:I pitched the idea.

00:41:11Guest:And at one point they told me, we don't know who's going to write it because you're just the actress.

00:41:17Guest:I said no.

00:41:18Guest:And then they kept like... So what I'm realizing is what's always happened to me is so I have this power.

00:41:24Guest:I have this... I'm funny.

00:41:26Guest:I can act.

00:41:27Guest:I can write.

00:41:28Guest:And what they do is they try to... Like we started talking like grind you down so that they can... And that's what they...

00:41:33Guest:talk about when somebody's abusing you it's what that's what they talk about they when somebody's abusing you they want you to fulfill all their needs without any reverence for what the subject's needs are and also they they they never really understand what you do and they've got a system in place so they the system is that's what i'm so so what i did was i got the system out of my body and i went back into the system so the system doesn't affect me i get it yeah you don't give a fuck at

00:41:59Guest:I fucking lived with an old lady.

00:42:00Guest:Not only that, I made the show about that.

00:42:02Guest:So then, so I went through this whole process with them.

00:42:04Guest:Not only that, so I had this woman who was an intellectual property attorney.

00:42:08Guest:She's like, because they said I was going to, they were flying me out there.

00:42:11Guest:And they were like, we need you to sign something.

00:42:13Guest:And I'm like, okay.

00:42:14Guest:And then they said they didn't want me to sign something.

00:42:16Guest:The intellectual property lady said, no way.

00:42:18Guest:So you're not going out there without something signed.

00:42:20Guest:Take this NDA.

00:42:22Guest:Yeah.

00:42:23Guest:And she goes, bring your slingshot because you're about to go slay Goliath.

00:42:26Guest:Uh-huh.

00:42:27Guest:And I'm not just, so I went to the CBS in New York first and I told the woman, I said, it's all about to crumble.

00:42:32Guest:Anything that's not built on a spiritual foundation is about to crumble.

00:42:35Guest:Everything has to be done with transparency now.

00:42:37Guest:This deal has to be done fairly.

00:42:39Guest:It has to be done fairly because it's not going to work anymore.

00:42:42Guest:And two weeks later, the Harvey Weinstein thing broke.

00:42:45Guest:Uh-huh.

00:42:45Guest:So the Harvey Weinstein thing broke.

00:42:46Guest:Now I'm on a plane going to LA to sit in front of these suits while this Harvey Weinstein, the energy was insane.

00:42:53Guest:It was so intense.

00:42:55Guest:And so I get there and they say, all right, so tell us your idea.

00:42:58Guest:And I took out the NDA and they did not like it.

00:43:01Guest:they did not like it.

00:43:04Guest:They were like, we don't sign an NDA.

00:43:05Guest:We don't do that.

00:43:06Guest:We don't do that.

00:43:08Guest:And then a whole lot more went on, but they did sign it.

00:43:12Guest:And then I ended up going, doing research with all the attorneys and how much they were just told.

00:43:18Guest:I mean, I couldn't believe it.

00:43:19Guest:I was like, okay, we're in the middle of this Me Too thing.

00:43:21Guest:You'd think that they would be holding their act together now.

00:43:24Guest:Yeah.

00:43:25Guest:No, it was worse.

00:43:26Guest:The attorneys, like some of them, like one guy, he's a huge attorney.

00:43:31Guest:cornered me in his office, physically cornered me in his office because he wanted me to sign a contract, signing away all my rights because they see what I have on my hands.

00:43:39Guest:And what happens is- Cornering you in anger, not in- Almost not even in anger, in frustration.

00:43:45Guest:This is what I was able to be pragmatic about too because I was like, oh, he was so mad and frustrated that I wasn't doing what he wanted me to do, that he physically, he lost his sense of any reality.

00:43:58Mm-hmm.

00:43:58Guest:That I could sue him, that he's a lawyer, that we're in the middle of this whole... Yeah.

00:44:03Guest:And that I'm Sue Costello and I have a big mouth.

00:44:05Guest:Yeah.

00:44:06Guest:But so he stood... And then I was so... So this is what I mean about not becoming what they do to you.

00:44:12Guest:Yeah.

00:44:12Yeah.

00:44:13Guest:I picked up my bag and I looked at him and I said, can you step aside?

00:44:18Guest:Cause I need to leave the room.

00:44:19Guest:And his whole body crumbled because he was woken up from that scary monster moat.

00:44:23Guest:And he was like, what did I just fucking do?

00:44:25Guest:What did I just do?

00:44:25Guest:And he chased me out of the, he said that.

00:44:27Guest:Yeah.

00:44:28Guest:And then he chased me out of the place and I was like, and yes, could I have sued him?

00:44:31Guest:Could I have done?

00:44:31Guest:Yeah.

00:44:32Guest:But I don't want to do that.

00:44:33Guest:I want to get a TV show made.

00:44:34Guest:I want to do business and I want to make money.

00:44:35Guest:So that's all I kept focusing on.

00:44:37Guest:I'm like, cause I could have went down the rabbit hole with all this stuff.

00:44:40Guest:And then like,

00:44:40Guest:And I didn't.

00:44:41Guest:If I get angry, then the thing that they want me to do, the TV show, is gone.

00:44:45Guest:Exactly.

00:44:46Guest:So it doesn't even logically make sense.

00:44:47Guest:You're like, why would you want to make somebody that you need their essence to make you money?

00:44:51Guest:And the thing, the cool thing about CBS is like, I went to them, first of all, because I wanted to go back to Les, but also...

00:44:57Guest:The whole time they were doing all this to me.

00:44:59Guest:So then finally I was just like, why don't I just fucking write the script?

00:45:02Guest:Two weeks I wrote the script and I took everything that they did to me and I put it in the script.

00:45:05Guest:So now I have a show about what goes on between men and women in suits and a sitcom that's hilarious about everything that happened.

00:45:12Guest:But I'm going to negotiate.

00:45:13Guest:I mean, my dad was a labor mediator.

00:45:15Guest:And the cool thing about it, so I transcended everything with my dad.

00:45:18Guest:So now I can transcend it.

00:45:19Guest:I'm getting the help from my dad because I don't have all this anger towards my dad anymore anymore.

00:45:23Guest:And he's helping me through this whole thing.

00:45:25Guest:Like when the guy pushed me in his office, he got so mad.

00:45:27Guest:I go, dad, don't be my dad.

00:45:29Guest:Help me with the negotiations.

00:45:30Guest:And then he's like, oh, oh, I get what you're doing.

00:45:33Guest:Oh, I get what you're doing.

00:45:34Guest:He goes, you don't need me.

00:45:35Guest:He goes, you just need me to tell you to keep going.

00:45:37Guest:And the last time I was home, he's like, Sue, you're the best negotiator I've ever met in my whole life.

00:45:41Guest:And I'm like, look at that.

00:45:42Guest:So if I can get the respect from my dad and then I'm like, okay, so my dad doesn't know what it's like to be a woman.

00:45:48Guest:So why would I expect him to know?

00:45:50Guest:My dad doesn't know that when he puffs up and acts scary that he scares me unless I tell him.

00:45:54Guest:So we've been in this mode of like they puff up and act scary and I don't tell them.

00:45:58Guest:And then this abuse, this abuse of power is existing because it's set up that way.

00:46:03Guest:It's almost breeding it.

00:46:04Guest:So I'm like, well, why don't I just try to do something different?

00:46:07Guest:And I've done it with my dad.

00:46:09Guest:my dad's puffed up and i've been like dad what it sounds like you're doing is this and then he turns into like a german shepherd puppy dog and he's like no i just felt like i let you down and i'm like oh my god you know how many years it took me to be able to have the words to just say it feels like this and then he feels free because he's he's not meaning to do what he's doing and i'm not saying that i'm defending the men's behavior but somebody's got to do something to fix some of this and and even guys now they're like i don't even know what creepy is yeah

00:46:35Guest:And I'm like, oh, they really don't know what creepy is.

00:46:37Marc:No, they need help.

00:46:38Guest:Yes.

00:46:39Guest:Yeah.

00:46:39Guest:And so I created this show that's going to help all of us, not just.

00:46:43Marc:Well, good.

00:46:43Marc:I'm thrilled.

00:46:44Marc:It sounds great.

00:46:46Marc:So this is happening.

00:46:48Marc:You're doing your one person show.

00:46:49Guest:I'm doing the play.

00:46:50Guest:I'm going to keep going with the play.

00:46:51Guest:So I get the play.

00:46:52Guest:I get that.

00:46:52Guest:And then this documentarian came and they wanted to shoot a documentary about the play, about everything that I'm doing.

00:46:57Marc:Great.

00:46:58Marc:So how can people find you doing stand-up?

00:47:00Guest:Doing stand-up.

00:47:01Guest:I just headlined Vegas in Reno.

00:47:04Guest:SueCostello.com.

00:47:05Guest:Good.

00:47:06Guest:Yeah.

00:47:06Guest:It's nice seeing you.

00:47:08Guest:It's nice seeing you too.

00:47:09Guest:Thanks, Sue.

00:47:09Guest:Thank you.

00:47:17Marc:As I mentioned, you can just go to SueCostello.com for everything you need to know.

00:47:23Marc:You can go to her GoFundMe at GoFundMe.com slash I am Sue Costello.

00:47:27Marc:But try to find Sue.

00:47:29Marc:It's always invigorating.

00:47:31Marc:Yes.

00:47:32Marc:Uplifting.

00:47:33Marc:I also wanted to mention that my friend of the show.

00:47:38Marc:And an old buddy of mine who I've known for a million years, Jimmy Tingle, I just read an article that he's running for office.

00:47:44Marc:I didn't even know it was happening.

00:47:46Marc:But my old buddy, Jimmy Tingle, is running for lieutenant governor in Massachusetts.

00:47:50Marc:And that's a that's a beautiful thing.

00:47:52Marc:He's always been concerned about politics.

00:47:55Marc:He's always had a political voice.

00:47:57Marc:And I just want to say, you know, fucking good for you, Jimmy.

00:48:00Marc:You're walking the walk and it's beautiful.

00:48:02Marc:Congratulations.

00:48:03Marc:Best of luck.

00:48:05Marc:So Jim Gaffigan, he's been on the show actually several times.

00:48:08Marc:It's always good to see Jim.

00:48:10Marc:We talked about some pretty heavy stuff, but he's always funny.

00:48:14Marc:He's got a new special.

00:48:15Marc:It's called Noble Ape.

00:48:16Marc:It's playing right now in select theaters.

00:48:19Marc:Yeah.

00:48:20Marc:And you can also get it on iTunes, Amazon, and other digital platforms.

00:48:23Marc:Theaters.

00:48:24Marc:Go see Jimmy in a theater.

00:48:27Marc:All right.

00:48:27Marc:This is me and Jim Gaffigan catching up.

00:48:36Marc:Jim.

00:48:37Marc:Yes, sir.

00:48:37Marc:You want to pull the mic into your face?

00:48:39Marc:Yes, sir.

00:48:39Marc:So we can hear it.

00:48:40Marc:How are you doing?

00:48:41Marc:I'm good.

00:48:42Marc:Yeah?

00:48:43Marc:I'm good.

00:48:43Marc:So you're out running around doing the thing?

00:48:46Marc:Running around.

00:48:47Marc:What is this, like the 19th special?

00:48:49Guest:No, this is the sixth hour.

00:48:53Guest:Sixth?

00:48:54Guest:I mean, well, we all did those, you know, there's the Comedy Central ones, right?

00:48:58Guest:Yeah.

00:48:58Marc:I didn't do an hour for them.

00:48:59Marc:I never did.

00:49:00Marc:I've done four specials.

00:49:02Marc:I've done one for Netflix, one for Epix, and another for Netflix, and then the rest were CDs, and then a half-hour special, but I've only done three, though they were 70 minutes, and one of them was 90 minutes.

00:49:15Marc:Yeah.

00:49:16Marc:What's yours coming in at?

00:49:17Marc:This one, I think, is like 72.

00:49:19Marc:That's about right.

00:49:21Marc:Yeah.

00:49:22Marc:But this one's called Noble Ape.

00:49:24Marc:Noble Ape.

00:49:25Marc:And so I haven't talked to you in a while.

00:49:28Marc:I ran into Adam Goldberg.

00:49:30Marc:Yeah.

00:49:30Marc:And we went out to... He came out with us 4th of July.

00:49:34Marc:We have a yearly couples date on the 4th of July.

00:49:38Marc:We go to a party.

00:49:40Marc:Yes.

00:49:41Marc:Me and Sarah and Roxanne and the... What's the little kid's name?

00:49:46Marc:Bud.

00:49:46Marc:Bud the Kid.

00:49:47Marc:Yes.

00:49:47Marc:Bud the Kid and Adam.

00:49:48Guest:Best name.

00:49:49Guest:Bud Goldberg.

00:49:50Marc:Right.

00:49:51Marc:It's the best.

00:49:51Marc:Yeah.

00:49:51Marc:it's the best name it's a great guy yeah it's a great kid he's a good kid but i i just had no idea what like the last time i talked to you i have no idea what's happened i don't know what happened to the television show i didn't know about genie sickness yeah i didn't know like uh what you've been doing like have you had three more kids since i've seen you uh still just five okay so how did what happened with the show on tv land

00:50:14Guest:Well, what happened with the show is Jeannie and I were executive producing and writing.

00:50:21Guest:Yeah.

00:50:23Guest:And Jeannie was directing.

00:50:25Guest:Yeah.

00:50:25Guest:And we have five young children.

00:50:27Guest:And frankly, it was a blast and everything, but it was also...

00:50:35Guest:Insane.

00:50:36Guest:Insane.

00:50:37Guest:It's just, well, you've been there.

00:50:39Marc:Not with five kids, but I can't imagine that part.

00:50:42Guest:It's an insane balancing act.

00:50:44Guest:Right.

00:50:46Guest:And it's one thing to have one parent working full time, but to have two gone for sometimes 16 hours a day, it's just irresponsible.

00:50:57Guest:Right.

00:50:57Marc:And so for me, it was an easy- Emotionally negligent.

00:51:01Guest:It was an easy decision.

00:51:04Marc:Almost child abuse-

00:51:05Guest:Yes.

00:51:05Guest:Well, you know, also we would, you know, of course you're not working absolutely every single day, but on those days off, I just wouldn't get out of bed, but she would be out doing things with the kids.

00:51:17Guest:And so it was a pretty easy decision for me, but for her it was rather difficult because-

00:51:22Guest:She was directing.

00:51:23Guest:Yeah.

00:51:23Guest:She was executive.

00:51:24Guest:It was like she was the mama bear.

00:51:26Guest:It was like- Right.

00:51:27Marc:On both fronts, with the family and with the show.

00:51:29Guest:And so it was a hard decision for her.

00:51:32Guest:Yeah.

00:51:33Guest:But in the end, a pretty simple one, because in the end, you don't want to suck at parenting.

00:51:41Guest:I mean- Right.

00:51:42Guest:Inevitably, everyone fails, but-

00:51:44Marc:Right.

00:51:45Marc:But it was your decision, pretty much.

00:51:48Guest:It was both of us.

00:51:48Guest:I mean, the two of you.

00:51:49Guest:Yes, yes.

00:51:51Marc:They would have done more.

00:51:53Guest:I think they, you know, who knows?

00:51:54Guest:There's probably some iteration.

00:51:57Guest:Because there was the balancing act of, like, there was some discussion.

00:52:02Guest:They wanted to go to like 22 episodes.

00:52:05Guest:You know what I mean?

00:52:05Guest:Which would have been insanity.

00:52:07Guest:Yeah, totally.

00:52:09Guest:But yeah, I don't even know if TV Land is still called TV Land.

00:52:14Guest:Right.

00:52:15Guest:No, I know.

00:52:15Guest:It's hard to know.

00:52:19Guest:But that show was unique in that we were...

00:52:22Guest:And you know this, doing a semi-autobiographic show.

00:52:26Guest:Yeah.

00:52:26Guest:But imagine doing a semi-autobiographic show where your significant, your partner is also portrayed.

00:52:35Guest:So it's not just you.

00:52:36Guest:Like, I don't care if I'm portrayed as a schlub.

00:52:38Guest:But you're playing you.

00:52:39Guest:I'm playing me.

00:52:41Guest:Yeah.

00:52:41Guest:And someone else is playing her.

00:52:43Guest:So it was very complex.

00:52:45Marc:Yeah.

00:52:45Marc:And then you had a few fake kids.

00:52:47Guest:Fake kids.

00:52:48Guest:But my kids would slide in here and there.

00:52:50Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:52:51Marc:Yeah.

00:52:51Marc:So that ended, and then you just went right back into writing stand-up?

00:52:56Guest:It was a piece of joy working on stand-up and not writing episodes and rewriting episodes.

00:53:04Marc:And worrying about a crew and everything else.

00:53:05Guest:Yeah.

00:53:07Guest:But yeah, and I got some acting roles in films, and it was great.

00:53:13Guest:And then last April was discovered...

00:53:16Guest:Jeannie had this huge brain tumor the size of a pear at the base of her skull, like right where all the cranial nerves.

00:53:25Marc:God.

00:53:26Guest:And so... Were there symptoms?

00:53:29Marc:I mean, like...

00:53:31Marc:How'd she find out?

00:53:32Guest:What happened to make you realize?

00:53:34Guest:Well, she was at the pediatrician.

00:53:37Guest:I was probably out of town.

00:53:40Guest:She brought in all five kids to the pediatrician.

00:53:42Guest:We have this amazing pediatrician.

00:53:45Guest:And the pediatrician, she said, she was talking to Jeannie.

00:53:48Guest:She goes, you're favoring one ear.

00:53:50Guest:And Jeannie's like, oh, I can't hear out of this one.

00:53:52Guest:And the pediatrician's like, that's not normal.

00:53:54Guest:And she goes, I just assumed it's exhaustion, you know, five kids.

00:53:58Guest:And so the pediatrician sent her to an ear, nose and throat person.

00:54:04Guest:And that ENT, you know, like for a month, there were like these hearing exercises that she was doing.

00:54:10Guest:And then he was like, you know, you know, it sounds paranoid, but I think we should do an MRI.

00:54:15Guest:So they did an MRI and then they found this huge mass.

00:54:18Guest:Oh, my God.

00:54:20Guest:And it was crazy.

00:54:22Guest:Dude.

00:54:23Guest:Terrifying.

00:54:23Guest:It was crazy.

00:54:24Guest:Terrifying.

00:54:24Guest:Absolutely terrifying.

00:54:26Marc:Oh, man.

00:54:27Marc:So what was the prognosis?

00:54:29Guest:What had to happen?

00:54:30Guest:So it was just an immediate case of...

00:54:34Guest:find out a plan, you know, determine a plan.

00:54:37Guest:And, you know, there's, you know, I think Jeannie's in the process of writing a book about it, but it's, you know, you immediately go into, there's an amazing calmness that comes over.

00:54:48Guest:I mean, everyone listening to this has had a family emergency like this.

00:54:53Guest:And, you know, you just, you know, try and make the best next decision.

00:54:57Guest:Well, you know, how'd you handle it with the kids?

00:54:59Guest:Well, the older ones, we told them- How old are they?

00:55:02Guest:They're 14 and 12 now, so they're probably 13 and 11.

00:55:07Guest:Yeah.

00:55:08Guest:And the younger ones, we said, mommy's got to go in the hospital for a procedure.

00:55:12Guest:Yeah.

00:55:13Guest:And so-

00:55:15Guest:But it was surreal.

00:55:16Guest:It was like a good month where I thought she was going to die.

00:55:22Guest:It was pretty obvious that it was not looking good.

00:55:26Guest:From what the doctors were saying?

00:55:29Guest:Well, the doctors were always...

00:55:31Guest:And they're diplomatic.

00:55:33Guest:It's very interesting observing doctors because they are, in a way, they have to be diplomatic.

00:55:41Guest:They can't be you and I. They can't be the cynic and go, it's all going to fail.

00:55:48Guest:Yeah, it's over, pal.

00:55:50Guest:They have to be.

00:55:51Guest:Take her home.

00:55:52Guest:Because one of the first questions Jeannie asked was,

00:55:56Guest:Am I going to die?

00:55:57Guest:And the doctor's like, I don't think so.

00:56:00Guest:And you're like, all right, so then I'm turning around and spinning that to my children.

00:56:05Guest:Your mom's not going to die, but here's what's going to happen.

00:56:07Guest:Right.

00:56:08Guest:But the reality is that a huge mass around...

00:56:14Guest:Uh, the brainstem is not good.

00:56:16Guest:Like all these cranial nerves that control everything from swallowing to a blinking of an eye, facial slouch, uh, highly likely, uh, was all there.

00:56:25Guest:We didn't know if the tumor was benign or not.

00:56:28Guest:So we're going into this and there was just complications beforehand, you know, like they have to.

00:56:33Guest:I mean, the technology is insane.

00:56:36Guest:They build a map of the brain through MRIs and then, you know, they go in and there's, you know, this team of surgeons and one of them's on this nerve that controls the ability to breathe, you know, like how the brain.

00:56:52Marc:Just a guy for that.

00:56:53Guest:There's just a person on that.

00:56:55Guest:Wow.

00:56:55Guest:And so we got lucky because some of the material of the tumor was sticky.

00:57:04Guest:I remember the surgeon saying it was a sticky material.

00:57:08Guest:They could pull it away from the cranial nerves, but some of it is, it was a blur.

00:57:16Guest:I'm existing in this blur.

00:57:18Guest:I'm trying to organize.

00:57:19Guest:How many surgeries?

00:57:20Guest:She had two, one to quarterize it, meaning cutting off the blood supply, and then another one, and then she's had a surgery because half of her

00:57:32Guest:She had paralysis in the vocal cord.

00:57:35Guest:So she can speak, but she had a feeding tube.

00:57:38Guest:She had a tracheotomy.

00:57:41Guest:She had the whole shebang.

00:57:43Guest:And she couldn't speak.

00:57:45Guest:She couldn't eat for... It felt like a year, but probably a month.

00:57:49Guest:Can you imagine being married to a glutton like me and not being able to eat?

00:57:54Guest:So she had to be fed through a tube.

00:57:57Guest:And when we would have dinner, we'd have to...

00:58:00Guest:close all these doors so that there was no scent of food going into the room.

00:58:05Guest:And then I found myself, you know, she was like, because if you can't eat, if you can't swallow, you don't want to hear, you don't want to smell, you know, some burgers being fried.

00:58:16Marc:So, but did they get, so they, she went through two major surgeries, carterizing and removal.

00:58:20Guest:Yes.

00:58:20Marc:And they got it all out.

00:58:22Guest:Yes.

00:58:22Marc:And it was malignant, benign.

00:58:24Guest:It was benign.

00:58:25Marc:Oh, my God.

00:58:27Marc:But then now she comes out of that and she's got this paralysis and the throat problem.

00:58:32Guest:And so there's just, you know, medical science is just, I can't even contemplate it.

00:58:37Guest:It's just, so then they did some, you know, she had severe pneumonia after the surgery.

00:58:46Guest:That's dangerous.

00:58:47Guest:Yeah.

00:58:47Guest:Yeah, particularly, you know, essentially she aspirated.

00:58:52Guest:The ability to swallow one of the cranial nerves was damaged.

00:58:56Guest:So she was breathing, but because she didn't have this instinctive nerve to swallow, all the liquid was going in her lungs.

00:59:03Guest:So therefore she got pneumonia.

00:59:05Guest:And then when you get pneumonia in a hospital, it's really bad because there's a lot of nasty germs floating around.

00:59:12Guest:And so there was a lot of touch and go moments.

00:59:15Marc:And you were able to sort of stay strong and present?

00:59:20Guest:Yeah, I mean, I tried my best.

00:59:22Guest:It was also organizing, making sure that she had someone always in the hospital and also making sure that my five kids, that there was some continuity of

00:59:37Guest:familiar face, you know, Jeannie's family really showed up.

00:59:40Guest:They, you know, they helped.

00:59:42Guest:We did kind of like rounds.

00:59:44Guest:Like I have all these things that I scheduled and Jeannie really resents it, but there would be like shifts of being at the hospital with Jeannie and including overnight because you need an advocate in a hospital.

00:59:55Guest:Right.

00:59:56Guest:And then there were also making sure that, you know, my kids would wake up and see a familiar face and

01:00:03Guest:that was preferably a relative i mean it was you know we're very lucky that you know genie's one of nine kids so it's like there were moments where you're like oh this is why you have nine kids so all the aunts and uncles were there yeah that's amazing new york it was all in new york at what hospital

01:00:22Marc:Mount Sinai.

01:00:23Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:00:24Marc:They're a good cancer hospital, right?

01:00:26Guest:I mean, the neuroscience division.

01:00:30Guest:It's just, it's amazing.

01:00:31Marc:So now, where is she at now in terms of how is she, what are the physical liabilities as it stands now?

01:00:38Guest:Well, you know, she's probably at 80% of her normal energy.

01:00:45Guest:If she was sitting here, you might, since you knew her or you know her, she might sound a little different, but not that much different.

01:00:55Guest:People will meet her and then they'll find out she had a brain tumor and they'll be shocked.

01:01:01Guest:Uh-huh.

01:01:01Guest:She has partial paralysis in her vocal cords, but there was a surgery that made it so that she sounds normal.

01:01:11Guest:In the swallowing?

01:01:13Guest:Yeah, and the swallowing is pretty much there.

01:01:15Guest:I mean, she has to, like she's not eating salad.

01:01:19Guest:Certain things are very hard to swallow.

01:01:22Guest:But, you know, like when we were, you know, like for our anniversary last year, we went out and we had a bunch of soups.

01:01:29Guest:Yeah.

01:01:30Guest:You know, that was like our first time out.

01:01:31Marc:Well, that's nice.

01:01:32Guest:Yeah.

01:01:32Marc:Nothing wrong with soup.

01:01:33Marc:No, nothing wrong with soup.

01:01:34Guest:I mean, it is July 26th, so finding a restaurant that serves soup, they're like, what?

01:01:40Marc:Is there a 10-minute bid on soup?

01:01:42Guest:No, there's no soup, but there is some Jell-O jokes.

01:01:46Marc:Okay, good.

01:01:47Guest:You know me so well.

01:01:49Guest:They're like, I bet you did some soup jokes.

01:01:51Marc:Got me a couple soup bits.

01:01:52Marc:That sounds like the kernel of the soup chunk.

01:01:55Marc:Yes, right?

01:01:57Marc:But you guys are okay, she's okay, and the kids must be thrilled, and you must be relieved.

01:02:02Guest:I mean, I thought for sure that there was a couple weeks there where I was like, well, all right, I had a fun run, but I'm not going to...

01:02:10Marc:outsource this parenting if it's just me i'll just be a mediocre dad with too many kids did you like did you find like when you were fragile around this stuff who'd you turn to like when you were like you must have broke down a couple times

01:02:25Marc:Well, you know, the weird thing is, is like- But you're Midwestern.

01:02:29Guest:You know, the thing is, is like, I remember the day of the surgery, I had a friend show up at the hospital and I was like, you know, and he was like, you got to talk to someone about this.

01:02:38Guest:I'm like, I don't, you know, I, yeah, I'm nervous.

01:02:43Guest:You know what I mean?

01:02:43Guest:I, you know, I'm not good at processing things like that.

01:02:47Guest:Yeah.

01:02:48Guest:Yeah.

01:02:48Guest:Um, I, um, but I'm good at, like, I knew what I, what I needed to do.

01:02:54Guest:Right.

01:02:54Guest:And it wasn't.

01:02:56Guest:That's the most important.

01:02:56Guest:I guess I didn't think that it was, um, uh, functional to be like, I'm so nervous that I'm losing my life partner.

01:03:05Guest:Yeah.

01:03:05Guest:I mean, it wasn't like something that I was, and luckily I never had to get in that position, but I was very much kind of like, all right, I got to make sure that my kids have after school programs and are picked up.

01:03:18Marc:It's all practical, all about dealing with the situation, not worrying about yourself.

01:03:23Marc:I'm just wondering if you got to a point where you're like, I can't take it.

01:03:27Marc:I can't take it.

01:03:28Marc:But you didn't.

01:03:29Marc:You just walked in.

01:03:30Guest:Luckily, Jeannie's family was there.

01:03:32Guest:And so it wasn't lonely.

01:03:35Guest:Right.

01:03:35Guest:It wasn't lonely because I would be talking to somebody whose sister was in peril or whose daughter was in peril.

01:03:43Marc:Right.

01:03:44Marc:And surrounded by family of different kinds.

01:03:47Yeah.

01:03:47Guest:Well, good, man.

01:03:47Guest:And there's always food.

01:03:49Guest:There's always food there.

01:03:50Guest:Which is good for you.

01:03:51Guest:Which helps me.

01:03:52Marc:Everyone's bringing food.

01:03:53Guest:Food.

01:03:54Guest:Plenty of food.

01:03:54Guest:Bringing food, eating food.

01:03:56Guest:A lot of food.

01:03:57Marc:Yeah, good.

01:03:58Marc:Well, I'm glad that got you through it.

01:04:00Marc:So the new special and the album, thank you for bringing me the vinyl.

01:04:04Marc:I do like vinyl.

01:04:06Marc:How much of it is dealing with some of the stuff that you went through?

01:04:09Guest:I would say the first 20 minutes is about it.

01:04:12Guest:And if you open it up...

01:04:14Guest:yeah that's it's so interesting that the uh vinyl it's so important now no you're it's not just you people love it i know like i don't think it makes a million dollars if you have it but people the people that like vinyl like to have it well you know it's interesting they include the download yeah exactly all the records have the so it's just uh and it's a beautiful uh design there

01:04:36Marc:Yeah, it's Van Gogh-like.

01:04:38Guest:Yeah, so it's like 20, I would say, you know, the first 20 minutes are about that experience.

01:04:43Guest:And, you know, it was kind of cathartic to, you know.

01:04:49Guest:I'm sure, dude.

01:04:50Marc:And because it's something like you said earlier, like one way or another, eventually or already people have dealt with this.

01:04:56Guest:And that's what I found when I started touring with the material was I was like, why is this resonating?

01:05:03Guest:I was like, of course it resonates.

01:05:05Guest:Everyone's been there with a mother, a father, or a loved one.

01:05:09Marc:You know what I mean?

01:05:10Marc:Yeah.

01:05:10Marc:Unfortunately, I have not yet, but I hear about it.

01:05:14Marc:I got my dad and his wife here now.

01:05:16Marc:They just went over to the hotel.

01:05:18Marc:Yeah.

01:05:18Marc:He's going to be 80 this year.

01:05:20Marc:Yeah.

01:05:21Marc:And we went on this little hike, and there's that moment where if you don't see your folks enough, where I see them trying to get up this hill, which isn't even really a hill, and I'm like, oh, no, it's happening.

01:05:33Guest:Yeah.

01:05:34Guest:He's fucking 80.

01:05:35Guest:I think it's really interesting how human beings, we can't live...

01:05:40Guest:Because we all experience it.

01:05:42Guest:Uh-huh.

01:05:43Guest:And we can't live in that reality for too long.

01:05:46Guest:Like, we have to, like, get out.

01:05:49Guest:Right.

01:05:49Guest:Because we can't live in the reality.

01:05:51Guest:I mean, Adam Goldberg, kind of, who I love, lives in that sincerity of that.

01:05:56Guest:The mortality field?

01:05:57Guest:Yes, I think so.

01:05:58Guest:It's a little much, yeah.

01:05:59Guest:But most of us can't.

01:06:01Guest:No, we shouldn't.

01:06:02Marc:My dad's more like Adam, which is a drag, you know, because he doesn't do enough and doesn't get out much.

01:06:07Marc:He doesn't like enough things.

01:06:09Marc:And he just sits and he just thinks about, you know, staying alive, even though he's not having a very good time.

01:06:15Marc:Yeah, it's it's he's miserable, but he wants it to keep going.

01:06:19Guest:Yeah, I mean, I think it's fun to live in this denial.

01:06:23Guest:I mean, I think that you'll see someone in the news that's passed away, and typically most people have the reaction, thank God that's never going to happen to me.

01:06:34Guest:Yeah, or not yet.

01:06:35Marc:Yeah, no, it's horrible, but yeah.

01:06:38Marc:But no, but also like, you know, you've surrounded yourself.

01:06:40Marc:You have all these wonderful kids.

01:06:42Marc:And then, you know, you're in a situation like this.

01:06:44Marc:I imagine you're really dealing with what life is, you know, in both realms.

01:06:50Marc:Like, you know, coming and going and, you know, tragedy and, you know, and hope and everything.

01:06:55Marc:But you see them growing and like you've got you've got a whole world of life around you.

01:07:00Marc:And this was one of those things where it's sort of like, well, this was a scary reminder.

01:07:04Marc:Let's go back to eating in Disneyland.

01:07:06Guest:Right.

01:07:07Guest:Or let's go and seize the moment and enjoy ourselves.

01:07:11Guest:Right.

01:07:11Guest:You know, like travel and see things that we want to do.

01:07:13Guest:Are you doing that?

01:07:14Guest:I'm trying to do that.

01:07:15Marc:Good.

01:07:15Marc:So, well, tell me about the special in that, like I noticed it's not Netflix and that's rare.

01:07:22Yeah.

01:07:22Marc:Yeah, it is rare, right?

01:07:25Marc:What did you decide?

01:07:26Marc:They're like, how come you're giving that guy a billion dollars and I'm getting a nickel?

01:07:31Guest:Was it that kind of thing?

01:07:32Guest:No, you know, I do have some specials on there.

01:07:37Guest:Yeah.

01:07:38Guest:And I was presented different options from the-

01:07:42Guest:The usual suspects that make offers.

01:07:45Guest:Yeah.

01:07:45Guest:And one of them was Netflix, and one of them was Showtime, and one of them was all these different things.

01:07:50Guest:We're all comedians.

01:07:51Guest:We're all waiting for... When's Amazon and Apple going to get into this?

01:07:55Guest:Are we waiting for that?

01:07:56Guest:I think they should get into it.

01:07:58Marc:You mean into actual... Well, Amazon's already into production.

01:08:01Marc:I don't think Apple is.

01:08:02Guest:But to take...

01:08:04Guest:To have an additional outlet for specials.

01:08:09Guest:But anyway, so I was approached by, you know, Brian Volkweis, you know these guys.

01:08:14Guest:And he's like, I'm doing this motto where it's going to be available everywhere.

01:08:20Guest:On the same day, not like a special, and then maybe we can release an album six months later.

01:08:27Guest:All on the same day.

01:08:28Guest:It'll be on demand.

01:08:30Guest:It'll be on iTunes.

01:08:31Guest:It'll be on Amazon.

01:08:32Guest:And I was like, all right.

01:08:33Guest:I mean, granted, he made a good offer, too.

01:08:37Guest:But it's interesting to release a special.

01:08:40Guest:And you know this, having a Netflix special.

01:08:43Guest:Yeah.

01:08:43Guest:When it's available to everyone, it's not confined to just the people that have Netflix.

01:08:50Guest:So there's a lot of people that are consuming it.

01:08:54Marc:You mean when it's not on Netflix?

01:08:56Guest:When it's not on Netflix.

01:08:57Guest:It's fascinating to see people...

01:08:59Marc:Like Apple, you can go to iTunes, you can go to whatever.

01:09:02Guest:And to see all these images, because on Instagram, people are sending me all these images of how they're consuming it.

01:09:08Guest:And some people are in a theater, some people are in... It opened as a film?

01:09:14Guest:It was in a couple theaters.

01:09:16Guest:Oh.

01:09:16Guest:So not like... It wasn't in theaters as like, we're going to make all this money in theaters.

01:09:21Guest:I think it was kind of like...

01:09:23Guest:everywhere you rent or buy or watch things.

01:09:27Guest:Right.

01:09:28Guest:And that was an experiment?

01:09:30Guest:I think that was part of the deal that they came to me with.

01:09:33Guest:And I was like, all right, I never really contemplated this being like Eddie Murphy's theatrical release.

01:09:41Marc:Did a lot of people go see it in the theater?

01:09:43Marc:I don't know.

01:09:43Guest:I don't know.

01:09:45Guest:I don't know.

01:09:46Guest:I know some people did.

01:09:47Guest:I know that we went and did a screening because Jeannie directed it and there were people in there.

01:09:52Guest:Oh, yeah?

01:09:53Guest:Which was fun.

01:09:53Guest:So she's back at it?

01:09:55Guest:She directed it post sickness?

01:09:56Guest:She directed it.

01:09:57Guest:Yeah.

01:09:58Marc:Oh, that's great.

01:09:59Marc:Yeah.

01:10:00Marc:So the decision not to do Netflix was to have a wider market more immediately and also have a little more control over, I imagine, the promotion because you don't know if something's going to get lost on Netflix or if it's going to get buried or if it's going to get seen.

01:10:14Marc:Yeah.

01:10:14Guest:And also I have specials on Netflix.

01:10:16Guest:No, I know.

01:10:16Guest:Yeah.

01:10:17Guest:And so it's, but yeah, some of it is like, I also feel like people, you know, consume it in different ways.

01:10:25Guest:And every year, every couple of years it changes.

01:10:28Guest:Yeah.

01:10:28Guest:You know what I mean?

01:10:29Guest:It's like Comedy Central is the most important, you know, and HBO special is unbelievable and it changes.

01:10:35Guest:Right.

01:10:35Marc:Well, yeah, you know, it's just like now it's just you want people to see it and you don't know how they're going to see it.

01:10:39Marc:And then, you know, and then it's about press reaction, I guess.

01:10:42Marc:I don't know where people find time.

01:10:44Marc:You're lucky if somebody makes the time.

01:10:46Marc:Right.

01:10:47Marc:You know, and it's sort of random.

01:10:48Marc:You know, there are people that love you and are going to watch everything you do.

01:10:51Marc:But then it's like, you know, there are people that are just going to be like, oh, look at this.

01:10:54Marc:There's a thing here.

01:10:56Marc:Right.

01:10:56Marc:Yeah.

01:10:56Marc:You know, and I don't know how it works.

01:10:59Guest:Yeah.

01:10:59Guest:I mean, I'm a comedian who enjoys...

01:11:02Guest:Like, consuming specials.

01:11:04Guest:And I still haven't watched a lot of my friends' specials.

01:11:07Guest:Like, the last one I watched was Chris Rock's, which was great.

01:11:11Marc:Yeah.

01:11:11Guest:But that's been a while.

01:11:13Marc:I watched Maria Bamford's last one recently.

01:11:15Marc:Yeah.

01:11:16Guest:I'm sure it was great.

01:11:17Marc:Yeah, she's a genius.

01:11:19Marc:Yeah.

01:11:19Marc:But, well, I will watch yours.

01:11:21Marc:Well, thank you.

01:11:22Marc:I'll at least listen to the record.

01:11:23Marc:There you go.

01:11:24Marc:That's a whole other different experience.

01:11:25Marc:So it's available everywhere at this point in time.

01:11:27Marc:Yeah.

01:11:28Marc:Noble Ape.

01:11:28Marc:Yes.

01:11:29Marc:And you guys are good.

01:11:31Marc:We're good.

01:11:31Guest:And you'll say hi to Jeannie for that.

01:11:32Guest:I will.

01:11:32Guest:And it's strange.

01:11:33Guest:You hit on her the first time we did the show.

01:11:35Guest:Matt, do you remember we did the first show?

01:11:36Guest:And I was like, is Maren hitting on my wife while we do this podcast?

01:11:40Marc:Wait, that was at Air America though, wasn't it?

01:11:43Marc:Like way back?

01:11:44Marc:It was the two of you in New York.

01:11:45Marc:That was like one of the early ones.

01:11:46Marc:One of the early podcasts.

01:11:47Marc:That was really early.

01:11:49Marc:See, what I did, maybe I misread something because I'm pretty sure your wife was flirting with me.

01:11:54Marc:That's possible.

01:11:57Marc:That's possible.

01:11:58Marc:It's good to see you, man.

01:11:59Marc:I'm glad everything worked out.

01:12:01Marc:Thank you.

01:12:06Marc:There you go.

01:12:07Marc:Jim.

01:12:08Marc:Jim Gaffigan.

01:12:09Marc:Great guy.

01:12:10Marc:Noble Ape is playing right now in theaters.

01:12:14Marc:I can't seem to get over that.

01:12:15Marc:And you can get it on iTunes, Amazon, and other digital platforms.

01:12:19Marc:No guitar today.

01:12:20Marc:It's hot out here, and I'm doing some work in the garage.

01:12:23Marc:I know it's heartbreaking, but you're just going to have to wait.

01:12:25Marc:Boomer lives!

01:12:33you