Episode 93 - Dana Gould
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Marc:What's wrong with me?
Marc:It's time for WTF!
Marc:What the fuck?
Guest:With Marc Maron.
Marc:Okay, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuckineers?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:What the fuckanots?
Marc:Someone suggested what the fuck ups.
Marc:How that never got into the rotation, I have no idea.
Marc:Well, folks, I'm out in the world.
Marc:I'm out in the humidity.
Marc:I'm out in the heat.
Marc:I'm out in Brookline, Massachusetts.
Marc:I came up here yesterday from New York to do the show at Great Scott.
Marc:I want to thank all you what the fuckers for coming out.
Marc:We had a great show.
Marc:A lot of people came out.
Marc:And it's all very surprising to me.
Marc:I really appreciate you guys coming out and seeing the shows.
Marc:I've never experienced this before.
Marc:People coming out to see me feels good.
Marc:And I hope you're having a good time.
Marc:I don't mean to be all sappy, but I've been doing this a long time and have people coming out to see me after so long.
Marc:is uh is rewarding all i know is i'm in a city that i lived in for years i basically started my comedy career in boston massachusetts and i never fucking come back here i don't know why i go back to other cities that i lived in but i went to college here and then i lived here for a few years after college after i hit the wall in los angeles i came back to boston
Marc:Got a job in Harvard Square.
Marc:That's where I met people like Dave Cross, Janine Garofalo, Laura Keitlinger, Chuck Sklar, John Groff.
Marc:A lot of people you may not know.
Marc:This is where I saw a lot of comedy.
Marc:I mean, this is really where I started.
Marc:I'm trying to figure out a timeline on this.
Marc:You know, right after college, I went to Hollywood and I got all fucked up.
Marc:And you guys, I told you about that.
Marc:And then I retreated back here.
Marc:I went to rehab for the first time and the only time.
Marc:Did not stay sober after that.
Marc:That was in 1987.
Marc:What is it?
Marc:88 maybe?
Marc:87?
Marc:Something like that.
Marc:And then I came back here to Boston.
Marc:I'd gone to college here for five years.
Marc:And I left college and I went to Hollywood and I came back here and I got a job in Harvard Square right by Catch a Rising Star.
Marc:But, you know, it was more about being in college.
Marc:Like in 1984, I think was the first time that I did stand-up comedy.
Marc:And there was a place right up around the corner from here.
Marc:There were a few places.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I remember I was working at one of the last Jewish delis, and I was working with all these old Jews.
Marc:This is a very Jewish neighborhood, by the way.
Marc:A couple of people just walking by in yarmulkes on Yamahas.
Marc:Nah, I'm just kidding.
Marc:Yarmulkes on Yamahas.
Marc:All right, look.
Marc:So...
Marc:And I remember vaguely that I was doing open mics.
Marc:There was a place up around the corner here called Play It Against Sam's.
Marc:It was a bar that used to have a movie theater where you could drink and watch movies.
Marc:And downstairs, they had a comedy club.
Marc:Barry Katz used to run the comedy.
Marc:They'd walk down the stairs into this basement to do these open mics.
Marc:And I just remember at that point in my life, I saw Kenny Rogerson.
Marc:The one memory I had, and it was a memory that happened often.
Marc:I was living in a converted patio or porch in an apartment, in a bed, basically outside with screened in.
Marc:And I decided I was going to try to make the perfect Bloody Mary.
Marc:I don't know if you've ever done that thing where you're like, I'm going to master this.
Marc:I'm going to master this cocktail.
Marc:And in the course of mastering the cocktail, I will service my horrendous alcoholism.
Marc:So I could buy a bottle of vodka, and then you buy a horseradish, and you buy tomato juice, and you buy Worcestershire and Tabasco and lime juice.
Marc:I think I spent like a week or so really trying to master that thing.
Marc:And I probably have no recollection.
Marc:I know I don't have any recollection as to whether I did or not.
Marc:But I just remember going to this place, played against Sam's, and you go and you sign up and you wait around to get on
Marc:I remember one night I was waiting around to get on, and they keep telling you they're going to put you on.
Marc:They put on everybody in the world.
Marc:And one night I was there, Kenny Rogerson, who was a very funny guy, was hosting.
Marc:And he got drunk, and he kept forgetting to put me on.
Marc:But that night, I remember, was the first time that I saw Dana Gould perform.
Marc:He looked like he must have been 21 years old.
Marc:It was 1984.
Marc:I don't remember...
Marc:how old he was, but I knew that I was watching somebody that had some almost artistic gift for comedy.
Marc:Dana Gould, when you watch Dana Gould, I always tell people, I say, when you watch Dana Gould, it's like watching the history of comedy.
Marc:He can sing, he can dance, he can mimic, he can do voices, he writes great jokes, he's incredibly dark.
Marc:I don't know if he can really sing or dance, folks, but I'm just saying that he was always a very inspired, a very gifted comedic performer, even when he was like 12.
Marc:I swear to God, in my mind, he was like 12 or 15 years old.
Marc:I remember seeing him, and then I remember watching the crowd just diminish, and then going up to Kenny after he closed the show, saying, what happened?
Marc:He's like, oh, fuck, did I forget to put you on?
Marc:Yeah, you did.
Marc:You did.
Marc:Hurts my heart thinking about it now, all that waiting around, because there's part of you that really doesn't want to go on.
Marc:You know, you want to make a big stink about it.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:Maybe that's why I don't come back here.
Marc:I mean, between college and between starting my comedy career here, I went to college here.
Marc:That means I went through all that horrible developing, that emotional turmoil, first loves, lost loves, bad haircuts, weird shoes.
Marc:Hey, who am I?
Marc:What am I doing?
Marc:Then I go out to Hollywood, I hit the wall, I come back all broken and fragmented and bitter and angry, hanging out in a coffee shop, working there as a barista, the bitter guy at the milk steamer, learning how to do comedy, coming in second in that contest and driving hundreds of miles to do one-nighters with guys.
Marc:who were bitter, driving the headliner out into the middle of nowhere to a bar or a grill that wasn't even equipped to have comics.
Marc:All that pain and anxiety and expectation and sadness and anger and time.
Marc:Fuck, man.
Marc:New England is like a graveyard of my emotions, of my past.
Marc:I mean, as much as I appreciate my past...
Marc:I guess there are just some parts of it I don't want to go back to.
Marc:There are just some parts of it I'm just not nostalgic about.
Marc:And it's sort of overwhelming to be here because I feel anxious.
Marc:I feel weird.
Marc:There's so many things that haven't changed.
Marc:I mean, there's the way the city looks.
Marc:I mean, there's a lot of things that are gone, but the general tone of what's going on here where I'm sitting.
Marc:I'm sitting in front of a laundromat in Brookline, Massachusetts, doing my laundry before I go to London.
Marc:And something looks so similar.
Marc:Something looks so staid about this city.
Marc:But I am definitely different.
Marc:far away from the guy i was when i lived here it's sad but it's also good let's listen to this interview i did with dana gould i feel like i'm getting melancholy
Guest:my oldest daughter is she's got the circus oh really yeah what do you mean the circus you know she's already she's in well she's going into second grade she wrote a play oh god that circus scooby-doo and the incredible misery oh my god she's following your footsteps yeah no she is what's the incredible misery um she doesn't like her scooby-doo doesn't like his snacks
Guest:the incredible misery yeah it's a great title that's so that's so dana gould she's seven who is the guest in my garage right now whose seven-year-old is writing plays that include the incredible misery yeah scooby-doo and the incredible misery was her play is it a riff on mystery though i mean i think it was yeah but she did she's already i don't know what it's from but she already says stuff like i abhor that oh my god
Guest:Where did she get that?
Guest:I mean, she must hear you.
Guest:Well, she hears.
Guest:We're pretty verbal, but also, you know, just they're always like Nick Jr.
Guest:or something.
Guest:They just pick up a word and they'll just like.
Marc:Oh, so a cartoon character said that.
Guest:Or like, yeah, they have.
Guest:Well, there's, you know, you don't know this probably on Nickelodeon or Nick Jr.
Guest:They have like starter sitcoms.
Guest:Like The Suite Life with Zack and Cody or True Jackson with our friend Greg Proops.
Guest:And they're like training sitcoms to watch sitcoms later.
Marc:For kids?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's sitcoms for kids.
Guest:Multicamera.
Marc:It's nice that I guess the cartoon characters in these kids shows that have characters that are lofty in their language.
Marc:I mean, it's interesting.
Marc:Like your friend Tom and Greg and the guys who do these...
Marc:These voices are intelligent guys.
Marc:Yeah, very bright.
Marc:It's nice that at least kids can model their language after something impressive.
Guest:And having had to watch SpongeBob on a daily basis for years now, it's great.
Guest:It's a very entertaining show.
Guest:And I often find in movies...
Guest:Usually, the kids' movies are the only movies that don't insult my intelligence.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I found... This is a lofty example, but I found Up a lot more respectful of my intelligence than Iron Man 2 was.
Marc:Well, I guess I can definitely see that.
Marc:Now, we'll talk about The Simpsons, but I think we should go back.
Marc:Yay!
Marc:Let's go way back.
Marc:Let's go way back.
Marc:Like, Dana...
Marc:The first time I saw you, and it's weird, the more people I talk to on the podcast, the more I realize that somehow or another I've infused myself into the history of modern comedy somehow.
Marc:Like being that I've lived in Boston, Los Angeles, San Francisco.
Guest:Well, we're of the same sort of, we were like people that were in...
Marc:in terms of stand-up comedy like you know like liverpool in the 60s or san francisco in the late 60s or you know we were we were there when the wave crested sort of yeah i mean you were a little ahead of me and that was what was interesting when i started doing the same age yes but yeah but that's the interesting thing is that when i started doing stand-up at open mics in boston in before i committed to it that was 1984 probably is that right yeah that you you were already working and you were like 12. how old were you
Guest:I was working and I was 20.
Guest:I did my first set when I was 17 and I worked because I didn't drink.
Guest:I didn't do coke and I had a car.
Marc:So you drove headliners.
Guest:I drove headliners.
Guest:They didn't have to share their coke and they knew I was a reliable ride home.
Guest:But that was really worked.
Guest:So I got a lot of stage time.
Guest:And unfortunately, and I'll regret this to my dying day, my stage maturity was vastly superior to my offstage maturity.
Guest:I was 20, but I was nine.
Guest:Right.
Marc:But that's normal for a comic.
Guest:But yeah, but I just look back and I just cringe.
Guest:I'm paraphrasing Kenny Rogers, but I was like, I meet people who knew me before I was 30 and I just like apologize and walk away.
Right.
Marc:i feel a lot of that yeah i'm sorry i'm whatever but i met you in 1990 i'm very sorry i'm very sorry for what though you were never like if anything you were just manic and a little heavy-hearted that's a lot that's enough
Marc:You don't think that's enough?
Marc:That combination?
Guest:That's a combination.
Guest:I thought that was a blurb on a poster for one of your shows.
Guest:Man, it can be hard.
Guest:That's really well put.
Guest:Bob Goldthwait once introduced me as the creepily personal Daniel Gould.
I agree.
Marc:oh god but that was that was an amazing thing that you got out of boston in some respects i mean as much like like i remember all those guys and i loved all those guys but you were already working you were like 20 years old and then i remember that i saw you and it was like holy shit that guy's got a whole thing he's got an act he's got pace he's got everything like i say to this day when people talk about you and i'm happy that you're doing more stand-up again i say watching dana gould is like watching the history of comedy yeah
Guest:In a good way.
Guest:Because when it's done, you feel so old.
Marc:No, no, no, no.
Marc:I mean, that your range.
Marc:Like, literally, that if you chose to do a variety show.
Guest:Well, I can do... Look, false modesty aside, for whatever reason, I have one ability in life.
Guest:And I can do several... I skate to different genres as I perform.
Guest:And I do that to keep it interesting.
Guest:But it's also hamstrung me because I'm hard at a pigeonhole.
Guest:You know...
Guest:I think in terms of if we were to equate ourselves with bands, which people always do, I find myself to be, you know, I wanted to be The Clash, but I'm Big Star.
Guest:You know, I'm like the band no one's heard of.
Guest:That everyone's forced to respect and own their two records.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:I'm like, you know, my draw is other comics, like the people that get in for free.
Guest:So it's not a good business model.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So you're saying that regular people try to listen to your record once or twice a year.
Marc:They grudgingly appreciate it because they know they're supposed to.
Marc:And they say, like, that one song seems good, but maybe I don't get this.
Guest:I met somebody recently, and they said, wow, you're one of the most respected comics.
Guest:What a terrible thing to say.
Marc:Yeah, that's right.
Marc:Or the comics comic.
Marc:The word funny is like, where is it?
Marc:How about legend?
Marc:That's always a bad one.
Marc:Binoculars for the word funny.
Marc:Is there a word funny on there?
Marc:But I would probably beg to differ with why you're received.
Marc:I don't think you're hard to pigeonhole, and you don't want to be pigeonholed.
Marc:But I think that the type of honesty that you play with, it's just there's nothing you can do about it.
Marc:Like, you do it much better than I do.
Marc:I mean, I will just put raw pain out there and allow them to laugh at my broken heart.
Marc:And they feel weird for laughing at that.
Marc:Well, I went through that.
Marc:I was there.
Marc:i was exactly well yeah but well you will actually you know put a lot of work into you know sort of uh crafting crafting the pain into into bubbles yeah well put but it still is what it is and and like i used to say on my sometimes when i'm performing i'll say like you know this is not that's not something you see on a blurb for a show draining you know
Marc:It's not everybody's idea of entertainment.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Cathartic for him.
Guest:He thanks you.
Guest:That's funny.
Guest:If you come out after you do a second, I really want to thank you because I feel better.
Guest:Boy, I spent a lot of time doing that, especially in the early 90s when I did this one-man show.
Marc:The first one.
Marc:Yeah, called Insomnia.
Marc:Let's get the time one back.
Marc:So you leave Boston because it was limiting-
Guest:Yeah, I always wanted to live in L.A.
Guest:I never wanted to live in New York.
Marc:But you went to San Francisco, right?
Guest:I went to San Francisco because I thought it was a nice way station.
Marc:But you left around the same time that Bobby Goldthwait and Tom Kenny left.
Guest:I went a year later.
Marc:And Paula Poundstone and Kevin Meany all left Boston.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And I literally followed like Dan Spencer, Tom Kenny and Paul Kozlowski.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Followed Bob Goldthwait.
Guest:And then I followed them and we were I was like the social the next social train.
Marc:Well, that's interesting because that sort of defined the San Francisco comedy scene of the 80s that they had their guys.
Marc:They had Proops and Warren and Robin.
Marc:John Ross.
Marc:John Ross.
Marc:John Ross.
Guest:John Ross had a huge influence on me.
Guest:Ellen DeGeneres?
Guest:Ellen DeGeneres was there.
Guest:She had already moved down to L.A.
Guest:But John Ross, he was a big influence on me, performing-wise.
Guest:If you look at my comedy math, it'd be like Kenny Rogerson plus John Ross.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Someone else equals me.
Marc:Just in terms of his energy.
Marc:What about Driscoll?
Guest:Ed Driscoll?
Guest:Ed Driscoll.
Guest:I'm influenced by Ed Driscoll in the sense of I often do impressions of Ed Driscoll.
Guest:so really that's your comedy map but you about to me i mean in very broad terms right because i see your influence on other people but you know come and albert brooks's stand-up was a big influence on how good is that yeah just in comedy minus one record yeah because what albert brooks did which is like i you know i was always a fan of like george carlin obviously but george will the late great uh would take a concept and an attack it like like like a like a
Guest:Like Thomas Friedman.
Guest:Push it to the edge.
Guest:But he would attack it the way Thomas Friedman would write an essay.
Guest:Like, all right, convenience stores.
Guest:Bang!
Guest:Albert will just do twice the amount of time on driving to the convenience store.
Guest:And that's really like...
Guest:what I it makes it easier on you and that's what doing like when the when the dreaded when the dreadedly named alternative comedy scene yeah arose that's really how I learned to do what I do because it you just just you be funny right but you also tell the story yeah you but you write the fuck out of things
Guest:yeah i i do but i i don't like attack it as like a right right right like a um i'm gonna say i'm yeah right i'm going to tear this thing down and show the hypocrisy to everybody and tell everybody they're stupid right the way like because you'd sit around thinking like i'm sure george collins sat around like like all right what should i what's bugging me which i write about whereas like albert brooks just like the story about opening for richie havens richie richie your name richie
Guest:They're going to kill you.
Guest:They're going to kill you.
Guest:You know, that's, I mean, I stole that lock, stock, and barrel.
Guest:I just, I should have, I've met him several times because of The Simpsons, and I've never said it, you know, like, Alba, I have to say, I ripped you off blind.
Marc:But what did you rip off?
Marc:The idea of structure?
Guest:I mean, really?
Guest:No, his... No, no.
Guest:I mean, just like his... I didn't really rip him off.
Guest:No, I know.
Guest:He showed me to just talk about your life.
Guest:It doesn't have to be a heavy concept.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Just tell a story.
Guest:Like, Albert would be just as funny talking about going on a Disney cruise as it would be about touring Belsen.
Guest:I can say, yeah, that's... You know, it's whatever you want to talk about.
Guest:Albert Parks tours Belsen.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That would be interesting.
Guest:So many of them...
Guest:Did they wear hats?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Where's the hairnets?
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Okay, now, you know, getting more towards where you were sort of hitting critical mass mentally, emotionally, towards a breakdown.
Marc:You do the first one-man show.
Marc:Steaming towards a breakdown.
Marc:Right, because you were the first guy that, I mean, the press on you early on when we were all doing comedy, I always had a certain amount of envy, but it seems to have dissipated, which is why we're having a fun conversation.
Marc:And...
Guest:No, it's always fun because it's literally when we have a conversation, it is like talking to your reflection, but your reflection has different things to say.
Guest:Do you want to talk to Marc Maron?
Guest:What's the point?
Guest:I talk to myself all day.
Guest:Well, maybe we could maybe get a little relief.
Marc:But you did the first one-man show in a way that... I did a real one, though.
Marc:I didn't do my after the lamp.
Marc:No, that's what I did as well, not to bring me up again.
Marc:It's your show.
Marc:No, but it was sort of before.
Marc:There weren't a lot of guys doing one-man shows at all, and Insomnia got real critical.
Marc:You did a run with it, and it was heavy.
Marc:Didn't you do it at Showtime?
Marc:You did it on Showtime, right?
Guest:I never did it on television.
Guest:No, I never did it on television.
Marc:So what's going on there?
Marc:You were in San Francisco when you did that?
Guest:I was in, I was, I had just moved to LA and I'd had a, Insomnia came about where I, I had, I had a pan, you know, I'd done standup for a long time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, I'd been doing standup for about like seven or eight years and,
Marc:And what was your draw, though?
Marc:Because, like you said, you're brilliant, you're respected, you do things, something that no one else does, and you were seven years in, and were you disappointed?
Guest:No.
Guest:I want to get it right.
Guest:I've been doing it, actually, 11 years.
Guest:It was in 19... No, 1991.
Guest:Nine years I've been doing it.
Guest:And I was living with a girl, and that ended, and I took that very, very badly.
Guest:And I was just working myself to death, and I was just...
Guest:I was really good on stage, but I had no ability to be off stage.
Guest:So you're broken hearted.
Guest:Surprise.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I just had a panic attack during a show.
Guest:I had three shows at Cobbs in San Francisco one night.
Marc:The old Cobbs.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:This is a mythic story.
Marc:Three one hour shows.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I just about 15 minutes into the first show, I was like, I can't do this.
Guest:And I walked off stage and and well, it's not as dramatic as that.
Guest:I went back, but I said I said I had to go to the bathroom.
Guest:But really, I was just like, I just think I can't be here right now.
Marc:What was the feeling, though?
Marc:You're looking at the audience, and they're all like, hey, it's showtime.
Guest:Yeah, and all I'm thinking is I can't do it.
Guest:Literally, if you've ever had an anxiety attack, it's like everything is running but your body.
Marc:It's like I've got to run out of my body, but I can't get away from me.
Marc:So you're paralyzed?
Guest:Yeah, and my heart is racing, and I just said, excuse me a second.
Guest:I have to go to the bathroom.
Guest:I just walked off stage.
Guest:What I really remember is walking past Tom Sawyer, who runs the club, going, and he's like, what are you doing?
Guest:Who's on stage?
Guest:And I went, nobody, and I walked into the bathroom.
Marc:And did he have to talk you out?
Marc:Was there a negotiation?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I said, I'm fine.
Guest:I lied.
Guest:I said, I just got nauseous for a second.
Guest:I thought I was going to throw up on stage.
Guest:We'll be fine.
Guest:And just the fact that I walked off stage, I finished.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But then I just didn't want to go outside.
Guest:Fortunately, I'm not that smart.
Guest:So I could never outwit myself.
Marc:In what sense?
Guest:In avoiding dealing with my shit.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:I have a lot of friends, you know a lot of people that are too clever for their own good and they never hit the wall.
Guest:Right, so you're saying that self-awareness... Dan Klaus, if you're familiar with Dan Klaus.
Marc:I love his stuff.
Guest:His new graphic novel, Wilson, is about... It's not about a comedian, but it might as well be.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's brilliant.
Guest:It's so great.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah, it really is.
Marc:I love that guy.
Marc:It just came out?
Guest:Yeah, Wilson.
Guest:And it's basically about a guy who...
Guest:who's too clever for his own good and he never has to deal with his shit.
Guest:And then he gets to the end of his life and he realizes it.
Marc:Well, but the weird thing is, is, you know, as well as I do that sometimes people who don't deal with their shit do fine.
Marc:And, and, and, you know, there's a lot of people standing around going, well, he's going to hit a wall.
Marc:There's this sort of, you know, schadenfreude expectation that like, but unfortunately we never get to see it.
Guest:It's good when you hit a wall though.
Guest:It's, it's, it's good for you.
Marc:I agree because you know, it's not something you plan on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, no, it's not something you plan.
Guest:But like I hit the wall like two, three times.
Guest:But but because of it, I'm married.
Guest:I have a family.
Guest:I sleep at night.
Marc:Well, let's do this.
Marc:So let's go there in the sense of let's go there.
Marc:What am I, Oprah?
Marc:So no.
Marc:So you have the nervous breakdown.
Marc:You write insomnia.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Then I were basically like, you know, I wrote my way out of it because it was the only you can.
Guest:I can only write like what I'm doing.
Marc:Yeah, me too.
Guest:And so that's what I had to write.
Guest:And I got an offer.
Guest:Because my act was sort of theatrical anyway.
Guest:I had this sort of like, you know, I want to be for stand-up what Pete Townsend was to rock.
Guest:Like, I want to do a show that at a beginning... I always fancied myself... I want to break myself into pieces.
Guest:Yeah, but I love that, like, Tommy, I also like the way that Tom Waits did in the big-time tour, like, to sort of create a theatrical experience without theatrical artifice.
Guest:I love, you know, like, I love the idea of doing a play at a carnival.
Guest:You know, I don't like the pretentiousness of theater, but I like what theater does.
Guest:So...
Guest:So I wrote it and I just sort of structured my act with a beginning, middle and an end.
Guest:And then the Montreal Comedy Festival said, why don't you just do a show?
Guest:And so I went out and I got a director that had directed this great one man show called Time Flies When You're Alive about this actor whose wife was diagnosed with breast cancer and what they went through it.
Guest:And I said, a guy named Mark Travis.
Guest:And I said, will you help me develop this?
Guest:And then I went up to Montreal and, you know, as always, like I did it out there like, well, we just...
Guest:It's not funny.
Guest:We wish it was funnier.
Guest:And I was like, no, I did exactly what you was.
Guest:But fortunately, it was a big critical hit.
Marc:It did?
Guest:It worked?
Guest:Yeah, it worked great.
Guest:But by the time I had written it and performed it and nailed it, then I was done with it.
Guest:But then it was like, no, now you have to do it every day for a year.
Marc:Did you do that?
Guest:I did it a lot.
Guest:Yeah, I did a run in San Francisco.
Guest:I did a run in Edinburgh.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:You were at the cable car theater?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That got me banned from the improvs, by the way.
Marc:Which is across the street.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, politics of that shit is ridiculous.
Guest:But it was also because I said to the guy that ran the improvs at the time, I forget his name, he had all the improvs on the road.
Guest:That weird guy, the San Francisco guy, he lived there and he kind of like- Well, he had the improv in Tempe, Arizona and San Francisco.
Marc:But he was sort of an odd guy.
Marc:And Dallas.
Guest:Yeah, and he would just fly to every club.
Guest:The minute he would get to one city, he would fly to another city.
Guest:And then you'd see him at the
Guest:Jim talking to himself.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And like sometimes you could stay in the condo if he wasn't staying there kind of thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, that's exactly.
Guest:I can't remember his name, but he, but he got really upset that I was the whole point of what I wanted to do was like, I'm not doing my act of the land.
Guest:I'm doing a woman show.
Guest:I want to do it in a theater.
Yeah.
Guest:And he was like, why don't you do it at the improv?
Guest:It's like, because it's not a theater.
Guest:And then he said, like, you know, we have Flip Orly down in, who's a hypnotist.
Guest:You know, he's doing a show.
Guest:It's just not taken down in Tempe.
Guest:And I said, here's a weird thing for your comedy club.
Guest:Put comedians in it.
Guest:And he was, because they went through that period of, like, the improv in San Diego became a piano bar.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And we have a hypnotist in residence in Tempe.
Guest:Just serve hamburgers.
Guest:You're a McDonald's.
Guest:Serve hamburgers.
Guest:Get over yourself.
Yeah.
Marc:and uh and um that he took great offense at that but you did it for years because that's interesting because when i did this show based on my divorce which i had no choice but to do you don't have a choice and you know it was gnarly and and i but now that i did it and i did it a few times and it's in in a good place i don't really want to run it anymore oh i'm the same way i wouldn't do i wouldn't do insomnia again if you put a gun to my head but but the weird thing is it actually becomes funnier the more emotional distance
Marc:you have from it.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:I mean, I fucking did it in Glasgow and I was afraid to even talk to people in Glasgow and I did this one.
Guest:People are horrified.
Guest:You talk about your feelings?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:I had that in Ireland too.
Guest:Yeah, I had that when I did my show in Edinburgh.
Marc:You did do it in Edinburgh?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did they just fucking... Oh, I hated it.
Guest:It was a terrible disaster.
Marc:That's the cultural difference because I've been trying to put my finger on it.
Marc:It's just that they don't have the emotional vocabulary of therapy and psychobabble.
Guest:You should be drinking, son.
Guest:It's like,
Guest:What are you doing on stage talking about it?
Guest:You should be down pub drinking.
Guest:Yeah, they don't really.
Guest:And they think they're being nice when they say that.
Guest:Yeah, they mean well.
Marc:But I worked through it, and it's a relief to me, but I was surprised at how funnier it became.
Marc:Because Time Out New York said about the show when they saw the workshop of it, they said the great thing about this is Marin has no hindsight.
Marc:He's actually going through this horrendous time.
Marc:And I think that the intensity of that, do you find that things get gutted and funnier?
Guest:Well, I like the, you know, there's like the blood on the tracks theory that like I, the best work is when you can't see out of it, like just the misery of that sort of.
Marc:I like that, too.
Marc:But do you find for an audience, because I guess this is where we are quite similar, that I don't mind if people are laughing instead of crying.
Marc:I don't mind if people feel incredibly uncomfortable.
Marc:And I don't always give them the relief they desire.
Guest:I'm the same exact way.
Guest:It's a theatrical experience.
Guest:But are we rationalizing?
Guest:No, I think it's just a different kind of performance.
Guest:It's more of an honest type of comedy.
Marc:But have you worked through your shit enough to know that that kind of feeling that we're creating in them is something that we grew up with because of the inappropriateness of our childhood?
Guest:Yes, and it's the difference between just doing a cabaret act and having some sort of...
Guest:sense of of for lack of a better term theater like you know i i like i don't mind an uncomfortable moment i used to i love taking now that i have enough confidence i love taking long pauses just to the point the audience isn't sure that you know what you're doing because then it becomes it becomes real i could never i remember going to the becomes real that's the that's the best part of it like there are moments in shows where like the only time i ever really walk off stage saying you know what was great about that is some weird aside yeah
Marc:That you never said before.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there was a... Do you ever work with a juggler named... Who?
Guest:Daniel Rosen.
Guest:He was like the guy that's like... He really should be a realtor in Irvine.
Marc:Which city?
Marc:Is this here?
Guest:I don't know where he's from, but this was in Vegas.
Guest:But you know those people that like...
Guest:they should be selling condos in irvine sure they have a vaudeville like but they dress like fonzie they dress like a rebel but it's like everything is a rebel juggler rebel juggler i'm pushing the envelope with these balls but he was so not that it was literally just like a costume he put on like as if i dressed like dracula
Guest:to do your act yeah um and he had a thing where he would ask the audience like a question and every night his wife would shout out the thing and he would do the funny reaction he would do the same mistake like let me grab my let me you know like let me grab my penis i mean oh
Guest:It was literally putting a needle on the record.
Guest:And it just, it was so by rote that every night when it came time for his wife to shout out the thing, I would just start engaging her in conversation.
Guest:So do you guys live?
Guest:So where is it that you just like to throw her off and watch her get really uncomfortable?
Guest:Because it was so fake and horrible.
Guest:It was so profoundly offensive.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know always... I guess the question I want to ask you is that because you're a very efficient writer and you map your stuff out, a lot of times when I create those moments, there are bits I do in my act that sit there like that.
Marc:And I find it very rewarding, but then I blame myself.
Marc:It's like, well, you're just not finishing the joke.
Right.
Guest:Well, as long as at the end is funny, not as at the joke, but at the end of the show, there's nothing wrong with having a moment that's uncomfortable for people.
Guest:I'll give you a great example.
Guest:I'll quote George Carlin.
Guest:George Carlin did a bit where he said, he was talking about the N-word, and he goes, Richard Pryor can call Eddie Murphy a nigger, and Eddie Murphy can call Richard Pryor a nigger, and it's okay.
Guest:Because they're niggers.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:And to them it's not offensive.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And I just thought that was brilliant because half the people are laughing and half the people are like, holy shit.
Marc:That's pretty genius.
Guest:That's pretty genius.
Guest:My friend John Morrison, who's African-American.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:you know we were friends in college and he was a big comedy fan and we were both Richard Pryor fans and like I got special dispensation from him to say nigger if I was using the title of a prior album like I could say that nigger's crazy or bicentennial nigger but I couldn't say hey nigger come over here but like and I just thought it was interesting like the variance of like here's where that's cool and here's where that's not cool but he knows
Guest:He's my best friend.
Guest:He knows I'm racist.
Guest:Right.
Marc:But there's something.
Marc:I mean, I've had conversations about that word in many formats with black people without black people.
Marc:But it just comes down to, you know, some people are offended by that word no matter what.
Guest:Yeah, and as they are entitled to.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And here's a, and you know, my dad is a racist.
Guest:My children are Chinese.
Guest:My children are adopted from China.
Guest:I just came back.
Guest:When I first told my father we were adopting a baby, his first words were, not a nigger.
Guest:No, come on.
Guest:And not in a funny way.
Guest:No, come on.
Guest:I'm totally serious.
Guest:That was such a predictable response that when I told my brother, the first thing my brother said was, you know what you should do to piss off dad?
Guest:Adopt a nigger.
No.
Guest:no yes without any irony or any no with a lot of irony my brother's hilarious okay but then i told that exact story to albert brooks at a simpsons party and i said and then my brother said you know what you should do to piss off dad adopt a nigger and without blinking he said actually that's an organization we're trying to get them to change the name
Guest:You know, and it's just all those moments, you know, everything that we just did in the past four minutes will make someone uncomfortable to listen to.
Marc:But those are designed to do that.
Guest:As is my point.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Nothing wrong with that.
Guest:A reaction is good.
Guest:But, you know, all that stuff is funny, but it's also like... And I love that.
Guest:And it's the reason I can so... I have, like, the stuff that I really enjoy for fun.
Guest:Like, I love, like, Pee Wee Herman and stuff like that because it's so divorced from what I do.
Guest:Just that pure...
Marc:funny it's just funny for funny sake and it doesn't have any sort of well i think that's what's interesting heaviness about you so much lightness to it is that you will do that you'll intersperse that that you will you present something you know like my balls are filled with poison yeah and then all of a sudden you have other characters where it's a
Marc:cry or what was it uh what was it uh mistake mistake like you that that's how you relieve a certain amount of tension yeah but i have a lot of admiration for people that don't have a lot of that heaviness and weight and can still do it me too i i look i i like steven right i was just like sure i i look i had a fairly embarrassing experience only because i didn't think i would have it when i was going through my divorce and i was sitting on my couch in comedy central played an hour of kevin james and i laughed
Marc:I mean, I was like, there are people, and a lot of them are those people that have no self-awareness, that are just fucking funny, and they can't stop themselves.
Marc:I mean, it's important to them.
Marc:They exude it.
Marc:And you get the feeling that if they were to stop being funny naturally, something horrible would happen.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:I think my brother would fit into that category.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:My brother's incredibly self-aware, but he's a licensed home inspector.
Guest:He has no affiliation with show business.
Guest:And he's crazily funny.
Marc:I envy people like that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because we have to second guess it.
Marc:But the other thing I was going to talk to you about making people uncomfortable is I started doing a bit again that I love the bit.
Marc:And I'm surprised for some reason where I basically just say, look, I love my mother, but I'm not in love with her.
Marc:and and there's an awkwardness and then and then people were sort of like and i'm like you can totally have sex with your mother right and they're just like what and i'm like i said just hear me out hear me out and i just say look you know like when you're leaving home for the first time you're like 18 maybe going to college and you know you're the last one to leave the house and and you know she's bored with your dad and there's that moment she's like bye baby you could totally her right
Marc:You choose not to because it's the right thing to do.
Marc:And it's a disgusting bit.
Marc:But the idea of having sex with your mother is not my idea.
Marc:And it's out there.
Marc:I mean, there's a history of psychology and there's a history of all this stuff.
Marc:Well, you marry your mother.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, that's true.
Marc:All of that.
Marc:But whether the bit is funny or not, I just love blowing the people's minds and making them go like, oh, my God.
Marc:Why did you make me think about that?
Guest:I know.
Guest:My opening line for years was I heard the funniest thing about abortion.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, just to kind of like, what?
Guest:Did you follow that?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And the whole thing was about how the whole Roe v. Wade battle is really, they just want to overturn Roe v. Wade because they know that then it goes back to the states and that the only states that will overturn it are in the South, which will inevitably lead to more inbred children, which will result in southern states dominating the Special Olympics, which is what this is really about.
Right now.
Guest:It's a big plan.
Guest:And then somebody once said to me, like somebody's like, oh, it's nice to see you going to that tried and fresh.
Guest:All Southern people are inbred bit.
Guest:And I went, oh, you're right.
Marc:Yeah, I get that, too.
Marc:I've condescended to Southerners.
Marc:So let's get to let's get back to this.
Marc:So how many?
Marc:OK, so you had several nervous breakdowns.
Guest:I had one big one where I walked off stage and then in July of... That was in San Francisco.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then in July of 1994, I just basically didn't sleep for a week.
Marc:And then you started hallucinating?
Guest:Yeah, it gets bad.
Marc:From a mania.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I just had... And that was when I... I had gone home on a visit and it was just... The dysfunction of my family was just at such a fever pitch that I just couldn't take it anymore.
Guest:And I had so much unresolved anger when I left.
Guest:I couldn't sleep.
Guest:And finally, the end of the week.
Guest:And I was my managers at the time were saints.
Guest:They like basically took me to their house.
Guest:You're going to die.
Marc:I remember there was buzz at a time where it's like Dana's very bad.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's something's going on.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then, right after that, I started taking antidepressants, and I met my, you know, that's sort of like where I grew up.
Marc:I met my wife not long after that.
Marc:I remember that, because it was, I don't know why it was public, but I mean, because you talked about it.
Marc:Because I talked about it, yeah, yeah.
Marc:That the antidepressants, you know, they changed your life.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, great.
Marc:And it's great.
Guest:Still take them every day.
Guest:Yeah, well, I've done this bit in my act, but it's true.
Guest:It's like a lot of my, like...
Guest:homeopathic Venice-based friends say, you know, you're still feeling your anxiety.
Guest:You're just masking it with medication.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's what it says on the label.
Guest:You know, in the wintertime, I still feel the cold.
Guest:I mask it with a coat.
Yeah.
Marc:it's raining outside i've masked it with a roof you know there's nothing wrong with you know there's nothing wrong with with proper use treatment yeah of that right well i think there's an old idea that like you know you are who you are you have to somehow i just i think as we get older we realize that like you know i'm fucked and you know i got a short amount of time here on earth i might not unfuck myself yeah so you know if somebody can help me unfuck myself a little bit i'll take it
Marc:yeah exactly i i it's just like the wiring as as in everything moderation you know yeah you know yeah i i'm trying i just quit and i got off nicotine about a week ago oh how's that going i never i didn't smoke but i was on the nicotine gum like compulsively and it's it's interesting because like i'm i'm definitely alive and well in there like nicotine's a great masker of uh anger and and uh yeah i've never smoked ever keeps you pretty level
Guest:uh-huh uh so but i never smoked because i knew i would be broad serling i would be like 53 seconds a day yeah but you i mean you come from a lot of addiction yeah i come from i mean i'm i'm that's what i say like i'm i'm an alcoholic without the benefit of being drunk yeah you know i was raised by them believe me i'm an alcoholic believe me
Marc:Did you, because of the chaos, did you have to deal with a lot of those control issues?
Guest:Oh, my God, yeah.
Guest:I said, do you know Tom Martin, the comedian, writer?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:He was a writer on The Simpsons for a long time and a really funny stand-up, and we both have very similar backgrounds.
Guest:He picked me up once at my apartment to do something, and he walked into my apartment because it was so ordered.
Guest:He just started cracking up, and he said, Dana found a space he can control.
Guest:That's exactly what it is.
Guest:But now I have kids, so that's all out the window again.
Marc:Now, you just got back from China.
Marc:That's why we were going back.
Guest:Here's the weird thing about China.
Marc:I was there once.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In China, every town has a Chinatown, but it's the whole town.
Marc:Did you find when you're in China, though, it's like, why are they giving haircuts on the street?
Marc:And the more interesting bicycles and things.
Marc:I was in Beijing and I saw things that non non car vehicles where I was like, holy fuck.
Marc:That's like a house on wheels.
Guest:You see a scooter and a guy has three safes balanced on the back.
Guest:It's unbelievable.
Guest:As I've described my month in China, it's the hotel from Barton Fink, but the weather from Blade Runner.
Guest:It was just brutal.
Marc:How does that process?
Marc:Because I spent two weeks there doing shows for expats, and I found it.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Where were you?
Marc:I was in Beijing, and I did like three or four shows there, and then I went to Hong Kong.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Oh, interesting.
Marc:But Beijing.
Guest:The money is different.
Guest:In Hong Kong, you have Hong Kong dollars.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And it's definitely a different feeling.
Marc:I mean, Beijing was heavy.
Marc:I mean, it felt heavy.
Marc:We were there like it was right after that spy plane had crashed, the American.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they were holding people there.
Marc:So it was a little intense.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:But like, I never have time to be there.
Marc:But you literally feel like it's, it's, I've never felt like you, this is really something I have no point of reference for whatever's happening here.
Marc:They don't do anything to cater to the American mind.
Marc:There's no signs that will help you.
Marc:You know, occasionally I'd see a KFC and I'm like, Oh, I know that.
Guest:What year were you there?
Guest:What year were you there?
Marc:Uh, it was there before the Olympics.
Marc:So it must've been like, um,
Guest:Yeah, it's pretty American now.
Marc:2003, maybe?
Guest:Yeah, it's actually significantly more American than it was then.
Marc:Well, it was before the boom, kind of, when I was there.
Guest:Significantly more American now than it was then.
Guest:There's a lot of signage and...
Marc:How does it work, the process that you went through to adopt?
Marc:I mean, how does it take you?
Guest:Oh, you'd have to interview my wife.
Guest:It's a ton of paperwork.
Guest:It's changed a lot.
Marc:But outside of paperwork, you're going to pick up your baby.
Guest:Yeah, now it takes like four years.
Guest:Our daughter...
Guest:You're matched with your child before you go.
Guest:You go with a group of people.
Guest:We have a lawyer who's a dual citizenship, lives in Monterey Park.
Guest:You all go over in a group.
Guest:I know the people that meet you there.
Guest:I've done this three times now.
Guest:And, you know, you go with this group of people.
Guest:First you go to Guangzhou, which is where the American consulate is.
Guest:You get your ducks in order.
Guest:Then you split off and go in many groups to different parts of the country.
Guest:where you receive your children.
Guest:You have to stay in that part of the country for about a week to get their passport and their visa from the local state government.
Guest:That takes about eight days.
Guest:Then you go back to Guangzhou, schedule your appointment with the American consulate to get their travel visa approved to the United States.
Guest:that takes about a week, and then you travel to the United States, and once you pass through immigration at LAX, they then become your... They're not officially... They're American citizens, but you have to re-adopt them if you... There's some weird thing that you can do much later if you want to, but the minute you get out of the airport, they're your official child, and thus and such.
Marc:So this is your third child.
Guest:The third, and we're done.
Guest:And we're done.
Guest:But the trick is we go there, and
Guest:And we went early because we wanted to go to the World Expo in Shanghai, and we wanted to... And then we got delayed in Guang... You know, we went to, like, Shanghai, then we went to Guangzhou, and then we went to Zhongxi.
Guest:And that's kind of like if somebody comes to America, they went to Boston, and then they went to Cleveland, and then they went to Milwaukee, and then they went to Banjo Case, Tennessee.
Guest:You know, they just... And Zhongxi was just...
Guest:unbelievable uh-huh and every day is just hot humid rain you know so you know just like it's always raining you know just even when it's not raining if you walk through the humidity it will rain behind you um so you're just damp and all that yeah putting on your clothes it's like you're wearing banana bread yeah and then but this is the the weirdest thing i saw a little sidewalk stand
Guest:where they had a bowl of live eels and a mesh bag full of live toads, and you'd pick what you want for lunch.
Marc:That was the most disturbing thing, is that I went to one of those markets in Beijing, and you see eels, turtles, kittens, pigeons.
Marc:I wasn't clear what they were being used for.
Guest:Yeah, there's a pet store.
Guest:Is this the deli or the pet store?
Guest:I'm confused.
Yeah.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And no, and no one in our group was funny.
Guest:Oh God.
Guest:I mean, you couldn't like, they eat chicken feet.
Guest:They don't throw anything away.
Guest:They eat chicken feet and they're just, you can get them at the store in a, in a vacuum, vacuum seal, vacuum seal bag.
Guest:And I'm in a deli line and there's a big bowl of chicken feet.
Guest:And I said to one of the other dads in the group with this one, Oh, that's a shame.
Guest:I had chicken feet for lunch.
Guest:And were they good?
Guest:Jesus Christ.
Guest:Shut up!
Marc:Too earnest.
Marc:I don't like that.
Guest:Beaten down.
Marc:So there is a junket of people that go.
Guest:Yeah, there's a junket of people that go.
Guest:You've never... I...
Guest:walking through a very weird small town in a Chinese province with two Chinese kids and a Chinese baby and a blonde wife.
Guest:I have been stared at more than the Beatles at their peak.
Marc:Is it curiosity that you're feeling or is it like those are the people that have come from it?
Guest:No, because most of the people don't even know what's going on.
Guest:Most of the people, they have no idea what's going on.
Guest:It's just like if we just saw a family of scarecrows walking around.
Marc:like what the hell is that yeah yeah it's a scarecrow family they're all over the place when you uh when you go there like my brother has three adopted kids uh-huh and um domestic or international they're domestic is that how you refer to them see i don't know what the language is okay american or not right right why'd you adopt american kids i just say i don't like american
Marc:The way they adopted was they were aligned with or put in touch with women who were pregnant.
Guest:Yeah, that's, I believe, called an open adoption.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And met the parent.
Marc:Did you go through that?
Guest:No, because this is China.
Guest:The reason we adopted from China for people who are interested is there was a book years ago called The Lost Daughters of China in China because of the population.
Guest:They have a one child policy where, you know, if you have more than one child, you have to pay a very heavy tax because they want to limit the birth rate because they have a billion people and they can't feed them.
Guest:Although that's changing as the country's open.
Guest:um and a lot of these people in the sticks they have a and and like in any sticks area they oh the other thing about china is if you have a boy your boy when you as your boy gets older he gets married and then the boy and the son and his wife live with the son's parents and take care of them and the daughter's parents are effed so a lot of people they either have a daughter or they have a second child or they just leave it at the orphanage like
Guest:Can't deal.
Marc:They just leave it outside.
Guest:They leave it at the orphanage or they leave it at a place where they know the kids are going to get found.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's unbelievable.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's how it happens.
Guest:And that's how my daughter's.
Guest:So we don't know my daughter's parents.
Guest:They don't know.
Guest:How old was the daughter when you my first daughter was found at three months and my second two daughters are found on day one or two.
Marc:Well, that's pretty exciting in that they outside of whatever very, you know, I mean, they're young, so they're not going to have a sense of abandonment or abuse.
Guest:no they don't as they get older they have different issues about like do they yeah in terms of what because of what they know now or what you know it's just like they wonder no they wonder like you know we don't have any secrets or anything right no but they all of them not just my kids but you know when they're about 13 14 15 16 like why did my mother leave me did she wait till i was picked up did she just drop me down and turn away that that kind of minutiae yeah yeah was there any connection yeah because they want to connect that emotional core to a
Guest:And I just keep telling you, why don't you think about what you said?
Marc:What did you do to deserve that?
Guest:Yeah, what did you do?
Guest:Yeah, that's all normal.
Marc:And how's the kid adjusting?
Guest:She's great.
Guest:She had a cleft lip.
Guest:She was in the special needs program.
Guest:So she was taken to a different country and immediately had face surgery.
Guest:So she's had a rough go of it, but she's doing great.
Guest:I think it's great.
Guest:She's been in LA 10 days.
Guest:She's already had plastic surgery.
Marc:Oh, very good.
Marc:And the other two are excited?
Guest:They're great.
Guest:No, they're great.
Guest:It's fun.
Guest:And it's just a very different... I never...
Guest:You know, I I'm such a there's nothing hip about what I do, but I really enjoy it.
Guest:I like being like a dad that picks up the other like I'll take Lou and my daughter Lou and her friends like.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Movies and stuff.
Guest:And like I'm the goofy dad.
Marc:Maybe you get a chance to have a healthy childhood.
Guest:Yeah, that's exactly what you do.
Guest:You get to correct that.
Guest:And my kids, I mean, my kids are from... I mean, think of like my kids were adopted in the butthole of China.
Guest:And not only are they adopted and brought to America, they're brought to L.A.
Guest:and both their parents are in show business.
Guest:Like, you know, it's crazy.
Guest:You know, it's crazy.
Guest:Like, I just did...
Guest:the show true jackson vp my friend andy gordon it's a kid show in a collodion and andy's daughter and my oldest daughter lulu were about the same age they played together a lot so when andy developed the show he named one of the girls after my daughter so like i'm watching it with lou and i go you know that girl's named after you lulu she's like no i know because
Guest:she's already jaded yeah we had like a fundraiser i was like she was like uh like we took him to see the peewee herman show at when it was played downtown yeah it was so awesome was it it was beautiful it was great and then are you friends with him yeah oh and we know him and he came to our house at this dinner party like my kids are hi peewee we loved your show
Guest:How did he respond?
Guest:He's the greatest guy ever.
Guest:He's the greatest guy ever.
Marc:That must be exciting.
Guest:Could not be a nicer, warmer person.
Guest:I'd like to interview him.
Guest:He'd probably do it.
Marc:Okay, well, we'll talk about that.
Marc:I guess, like...
Marc:in when you took over, let's move back to, let's get back to the, the Simpsons, which we haven't talked about.
Guest:And then we can, which I did because I, you know, which is specifically tied to me having kids because I was getting married and we knew we were going to have kids.
Guest:I was, uh, you know, I, I had acted on, you know, to me, like the path I thought, well, I'll do sit.
Guest:I'll, I'll do stand up to the point that I become a successful actor to the point that I can write my own movies and,
Guest:Right, the standard trajectory.
Guest:But it's also, the goal is, I'd love to write my own movies.
Guest:It's sort of like, becoming a movie star to write movies is the most bizarre.
Guest:It's like, if I want to be a pastry chef, and if I am elected president, they'll have to let me be a pastry chef.
Guest:There's an easier way.
Guest:I can bake anything I want when I'm president.
Guest:That's a great way to look at it.
Guest:And I'd become a little burnt out, and it was right at the point where the big
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That you were you were setting out to do.
Marc:The thing is, is that the reason the burnout probably not.
Marc:Right.
Marc:The reason the burnout happens is, is, you know, you're a brilliant guy.
Marc:You do inspired comedy.
Marc:You're unique.
Marc:And you weren't getting the love that you wanted or the or the crowds that you wanted.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You got to respect.
Marc:But that doesn't pay the bills.
Guest:I was ready to pay the bills.
Guest:And I didn't want to go like, you know, I knew.
Guest:Look, I feel very confident that if I, in 1993, if I decided to really go on the road and live on the road, that I could be a lot more popular than I am now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I didn't want to do by that time.
Guest:I just didn't appeal to me.
Guest:It's like, you know, it's like I I, you know, I love Louis C.K.
Guest:so much.
Guest:And I look at him with such not with admiration because I guess, yeah, you're doing that thing that I just don't.
Marc:like louis i look at louis ck and the way i look at like daniel craig's physique yeah i could look i could look like that i just don't want to do what it takes yeah i just don't want to do what it takes but he had but he had a similar turn of events so that you did that you know once you know kids and the the sort of impending uh responsibilities of adulthood and making your break and and saying like you know i've got to do whatever is necessary i'm not
Guest:I'm not bagging.
Marc:No, no, no, no.
Marc:Oh, of course not.
Marc:Well, I'm just saying that it's interesting because like he quotes a story sometimes about when Coppola did Conan.
Marc:He was working there and he did one of those goofy bits.
Marc:He did, you know, Rotten Fruit Theater.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Apocalypse Now.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And he really wanted Coppola to see it and get his feedback.
Marc:But there was a moment that Louis, you know, Louis is very big on moments and, you know, elevating them.
Marc:He's like John Milius.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, like Louis, like, you know, if he has a problem.
Marc:I was reading Teddy Roosevelt's autobiography.
Marc:Well, he said that Coppola turned to him and said, you know, do you have kids?
Marc:And he goes, no, I don't have kids.
Marc:He goes, well, you're never going to be a real man until you have kids.
Marc:I mean, what do you what could you possibly know about anything about working that it was just that was, you know, I'm paraphrasing, of course, but there was this moment that, you know, you can't you can't work or you've done nothing.
Guest:That's how could you possibly know?
Guest:It's so true.
Marc:But what I'm saying about the precipice of realizing adult responsibilities and then wrapping your talent around.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That's a very real thing.
Marc:And he just did it his way, you did it your way.
Marc:But you're both geniuses, so it works out.
Marc:Yeah, no, he's great, and I'm not comparing myself to him.
Marc:But you're both capable producers and writers, and you can make television.
Marc:And what I'm curious about is that when you took that job, I mean, this was a franchise.
Marc:I mean, this was an institution.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, Simpsons was... Yeah, I was... Were you threatened by that?
Marc:Were you intimidated?
Guest:No, no, I wasn't.
Guest:I mean, I'd done...
Guest:George Meyer, who's a legendary Simpsons writer, was a fan of mine and I was getting married and he's like, would you want to come in a day a week and just punch up jokes?
Guest:And I was like,
Guest:Yeah!
Guest:Christ!
Guest:And I went in, and it was great, and I would go out on the weekend and do stand-up, and I'd come in.
Guest:And then my contract had expired, and it was right at that point where a lot of clubs were closing, the bloom was off the road.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And Mike Scully, who's the greatest guy ever, who was running the show, just said, hey, your contract's up, do you want to come in full-time?
Mm-hmm.
Guest:And who wouldn't?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, you go in every day.
Guest:You go home at six.
Guest:They buy you lunch.
Guest:People automatically think you're a genius because you say you work for The Simpsons.
Guest:And I said, yeah.
Guest:And then seven years later, I said, hey, what have I been?
Guest:I've kind of taken myself out of the game.
Marc:Yeah, but I mean, but on some level, I mean, you did something with The Simpsons that there was.
Guest:And then I grew up.
Guest:I started the job as a kid and I left it as a man.
Guest:When I left the show, I was married with two children.
Guest:Right.
Marc:But it was interesting is that that show had arced and then you brought it back up to a new place.
Guest:I didn't do anything.
Guest:I was I was there during a resurgence.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But you were head writer, right?
Guest:No, I was one of several people with my title of co-exec producer.
Marc:Oh, is that what it was?
Marc:Yeah, it's just the title.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:That's okay.
Marc:I really wanted to make it so much bigger.
Marc:Wouldn't it be great?
Marc:It's not.
Guest:It's really not.
Guest:It's really not.
Guest:It's like working at Target.
Guest:If you're lucky enough to get the job, you're there.
Marc:Well, I was very happy to see that you came back to doing stand-up.
Guest:And how do you find... In my unlimited way.
Marc:Well, no, but I mean, now there's this whole community built around the type of comedy that you helped create and that there's a comedy nerd community.
Marc:That's absolutely true.
Marc:That knows who you are.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, do you find it different?
Guest:I always make musical analogies.
Guest:I'm the Andy Partridge of stand-up.
Guest:No.
No.
Marc:But I mean, do you find that they're giving you the respect and that the crowds are coming more now?
Guest:Yeah, but I feel weird like when I go to UCB because a lot of my, which is such a great room, but a lot of my material is like, you don't know what it's like to have kids.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:I mean, they are kids.
Guest:And I have to tell I can only do what I do.
Marc:Right.
Right.
Guest:But I also think it's interesting.
Guest:My act is sort of changing because of Twitter.
Guest:Because I like to write... I only use Twitter for jokes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so you write these little Stephen Wright-y kind of jokes.
Guest:And I've written a bunch that are stage-worthy.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So now I have these little weird lines.
Guest:So it's funny.
Guest:I'll do a chunk of stuff, and then I'll do a weird...
Guest:disassembled line of something and then i'll do a different thing but because it's broken up like that my act isn't as narrative as it used to be um well what happens when you do shorter sets i mean if you do shorter sets you know the narrative starts to give because you want to get more rain yeah it breaks up but uh but i i think that's exciting and i don't and i don't care
Guest:also.
Guest:It's a good feeling.
Guest:I remember when everybody was just trying to get on Leno or Letterman, not Leno.
Guest:Forgive me.
Guest:And I did Letterman and you did Letterman and you're on, as Drake Sather said, you're on TV at midnight for five minutes.
Guest:It's amazing.
Guest:I spent nine years of my life trying to do this thing that was over in ten minutes and then I went to see The Arrival with Charlie Sheen by myself.
Yeah.
Marc:It's always weird where you're watching your appearance.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like that night.
Marc:Alone in the hotel.
Marc:Alone in the hotel.
Marc:Yeah, in the hotel.
Marc:Well, I feel with those things, I get to a point where it's like, I need to do one to feel like I'm still relevant.
Marc:Right now, I seem to be in this mode where it's like, my management, they're like, well, Kimmel doesn't want you in, Fallon doesn't want you in, Conan's gone.
Marc:And I'm not really that interested in doing Jay.
Marc:And am I going to do another Letterman?
Marc:I just think it's part of our job to sort of go, hi, I'm still doing this.
Marc:Absolutely.
Guest:No, yeah, I know.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And that's the only reason.
Guest:I exactly know how you feel.
Guest:And with me, I'd love to go back on Letterman, but...
Guest:i i don't and i love and i love everybody involved in the show i just i don't have the patience to have my act gone over with a speculum oh yeah four and a half minutes yeah but it's also it's like i just don't you know the dave doesn't like references to ice yeah yeah
Guest:And I'm just like, never mind.
Marc:Never mind.
Marc:It's okay.
Marc:It's like a math problem.
Marc:They make it into a math problem.
Guest:And with other shows, like with Conan and Jimmy Kimmel, it's like, yeah, show us what you want to do.
Marc:Okay, great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's funner just to sit down.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like sometimes.
Guest:Can we just do that?
Guest:And with Jay, that would never happen anyway.
Guest:Personal?
Marc:Personal.
Guest:Yeah, no, he doesn't like me.
Guest:When the sort of alternative comedy scene first came out, there was a big article in the L.A.
Guest:Times.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And it was Janine Garofalo or me said, like, you know, we're kind of like the anti-Lenos because Jay had just taken over The Tonight Show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And all it meant was we were just trying something.
Guest:Yeah, we were just trying to be, you know, looking for a place to be experimental, which he took deep offense at.
Marc:You think he's held on to it?
Guest:Do you know that he's held on to it?
Guest:Yeah, I know he's held on to it.
Guest:And, you know, that's great.
Guest:But that's where he has to live.
Marc:He's held on to that.
Marc:that's what amazes me yeah like I mean I have I don't care no I understand that but I have resentments and my issue with the night show is like I don't watch it you know like I like it's not even special anymore it's like hee-haw honeys now right but whatever it is like I you know I grew up with Dave I love Dave you know Conan you know I was there at the beginning and I felt like we grew up together yeah so I did a show Jay is touching people there's it's it's you know it's a circus and I just don't watch it so my my intention is I don't hate him I don't hate them I just I don't respect the show I
Guest:Yeah, that's exactly what he said.
Guest:I don't care.
Guest:And yeah, it was a funny, like I got a call when they were starting to do the 10 o'clock show, like they want to do, I go on Real Time with Bill Maher sometimes.
Marc:I'd like to do that.
Guest:And that's a great show.
Marc:I was told they have too many liberals.
Marc:We've got enough liberals.
Marc:They do.
Marc:Oh, yeah, the special segments, right?
Guest:Yeah, and Jay, they say, we're going to do a test show.
Guest:Do you want to come in?
Guest:Because we want to do a roundtable.
Guest:And they're like, I'm going to come in.
Guest:And I said to the person that called me, I said, I'll do it, but you should run it by Jay that you called me.
Guest:I was like, no, it's fine.
Guest:Can you come in Tuesday?
Guest:Okay, just run it by Jay so he knows I'm coming in.
Guest:Yeah, actually, we're not doing that segment now.
Guest:I was like, okay.
Guest:But I love that Jay's like, what, 60?
Guest:No!
Guest:Not the gold kid!
Guest:No!
Guest:I like people like, you know, what happened to him?
Guest:He was just a victim in that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's just a regular guy with no children, 7,000 cars, and gold depositories scattered throughout the country.
Guest:He is one of those guys that thinks that Armageddon is coming and he has to be ready.
Marc:Is that true?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:He's got a very Omega Man mentality.
Marc:Oh, so he's going to, on one of his motorcycles, he's going to be the one surviving.
Guest:Yeah, no, he's literally, this shit's going to hit the fan.
Guest:We're going to be here.
Guest:Zombies are coming.
Marc:I think that something's going to hit the fan, but it's probably not going to be as spectacular as we all thought.
Marc:Yeah, it's going to be a slow.
Guest:Yeah, slow, yeah.
Guest:But first the apes are pets.
Guest:Then they're helping you make the bed.
Guest:You were kind of obsessed with the planet.
Marc:I certainly am.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's beautiful.
Guest:Endless analogy.
Guest:As I say, like I once had a psychiatrist tell me like, well, of course you were raised by alcoholics and you understand that, uh, his, he's trapped in a world that he knows is insane, but everyone else thinks is normal.
Guest:That's how you were raised.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's that.
Guest:And there's also just like, you know, Moses dressed like Tarzan being chased by a King Kong dress like Fonzie.
Yeah.
Guest:It's just good entertainment.
Guest:It's just fun.
Guest:When I saw a commercial when I was nine, it just made my head explode.
Guest:How could you not love that?
Guest:How could you not love it?
Marc:All right, Dana.
Marc:Well, this has been great.
Marc:I really appreciate you making the time.
Marc:Oh, so great.
Guest:As they say, how do you get to Eagle Rock?
Guest:Practice.
Guest:Dana Gould.
Marc:Okay, folks, that was Dana Gould.
Marc:I hope you enjoyed that.
Marc:I'm still sitting out in front of a laundromat in Brookline, Massachusetts, waiting for my clothes.
Marc:I will be in London when you hear this at the Soho Theater.
Marc:I hope you're around.
Marc:What am I saying?
Marc:If you're in London, come see me.
Marc:I'll be at the Soho Theater.
Marc:I'd love to meet some what-the-fuckers out there.
Marc:And please go to WTFPod.com and, you know, kick us a little bread if you can.
Marc:Get on the mailing list, please.
Marc:Been very diligent about keeping in touch with you guys.
Marc:Get some JustCoffee.coop.
Marc:Go to PunchlineMagazine.com.
Marc:Go to StandUpRecords.com.
Marc:Go to AudiblePodcast.com slash WTFPod.
Marc:Get your free audiobook download.
Marc:I'm in England.
Marc:I hope it's going well.
Marc:I'll let you know.
Marc:You know I will.
Marc:Okay, you guys.
Marc:Talk to you later.
you