Episode 922 - Vanessa Hollingshead
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fucksicles that's a summer one i just decided on it how's it going today on the show
Marc:I talked to Vanessa Hollingshead.
Marc:Vanessa Hollingshead and I go way back, way back to New York, back in the day.
Marc:She's a little younger than me, and I remember her starting out.
Marc:She started after me, but she made a very big impact.
Marc:She did a lot of big character stuff.
Marc:I thought she was going to be like the new Lucille Ball.
Marc:She just had a lot going on, and then I didn't hear from her or see her for a long time.
Marc:I'd heard weird stuff.
Marc:I didn't know what was happening with her.
Marc:I was recently going through my memory, checking in with everybody I once knew in my mind.
Marc:I think I'd gotten an email from somebody who had been on a ship working with her.
Marc:She does comedy on boats now.
Marc:And I was just curious as to how, you know, what happened to her life?
Marc:You know, is she okay?
Marc:What's she doing comedy-wise?
Marc:I mean, she used to, she was married to...
Marc:To the owner of the comic strip, not the owner, the guy who booked the comic strip, Lucian Holden, for years, and he passed away.
Marc:It was one of those stories where I'm like, where did that woman go?
Marc:And she's been out there working, doing a lot of cruise ships and stuff, but it's a very harrowing tale.
Marc:of comedy it's one of those ones and it was great to see her and i'm glad we caught up so that's going to happen in a minute you're going to hear it i also i i know that uh i want i got a couple emails about the hawaii volcano statements i made the other day one of them uh you know helping out and the other one saying like could you shut up tourism is our most important industry in hawaii all right if people want to play golf in the lava let them play golf in the lava
Marc:Who are you to ruin a luau in the lava?
Marc:Wait, why are you getting all upset that you don't want to scuba dive in hot, steamy, sulfuric acid air water?
Marc:Come on.
Marc:Just because you're a pussy.
Marc:I'm sorry, is it not good to use that word?
Marc:Just because you're a weenus doesn't mean other people don't want to enjoy the nice healing effects of freshly boiled lava water while they're snorkeling.
Marc:All right, so let's talk about volcanoes for a minute.
Marc:I made some jokes I just did on this show again, and I told you I did get one email from someone just saying, you know, take it easy.
Marc:The volcano's on a small part of the island.
Marc:It's not having a tremendous effect on most of the island, and we require tourists.
Marc:There is the email, subject line volcanoes.
Marc:Hey, Mark, I'm Jeremy, and I love the podcast, and I thought the David Harbour episode was great.
Marc:I'm not trying to correct you.
Marc:I guess I thought you would like to know about the two kinds of volcano eruptions that can occur.
Marc:Simply put, volcanoes like the Hawaiian Islands ooze lava slowly and constantly over many, many years, building islands while at it.
Marc:Lava rarely gets more dangerous than persons walking away could deal with.
Marc:The other kind, like that of Vesuvius, the one that caused the famous Pompeii disaster, are much more dangerous.
Marc:They are called pyroclastic volcanoes and build pressure inside until it actually explodes with ash, gases and bits of solid rock.
Marc:all burning very hot, and the pyroclastic clouds are sometimes over 100 miles an hour.
Marc:Volcanoes like Hawaii will never explode with deadly gases, and volcanoes like Pompeii will never dribble lava.
Marc:Cool, right?
Marc:Just another reason you'll find a cool correlation of where the different kinds are.
Marc:Loved your show, Marin.
Marc:Love Glow.
Marc:I've got a crush on Allison, but you are my favorite on the show, and the podcast is my favorite thing to listen to twice a week on my crappy ride to my crappier job.
Marc:Keep fighting.
Marc:the good fight man thank you jeremy thank you for clearing up the volcano question yeah i i think that's interesting though that that perhaps if there are going to be fatalities or many fatalities from the hawaiian volcano it'll just be people like going come here dude just get closer get the picture i'm gonna do a selfie with the lava oh you can't really see it hold on oh fuck
Marc:Something like that, right?
Marc:Something like that.
Marc:Also, you mentioned the David Harbour episode, which I enjoyed very much.
Marc:Oh, see, this is the interesting thing, is I do a long conversation with David Harbour, and we talk candidly about struggles with mental illness, his being a little more extreme than mine, him talking about hospitalization, about medication, and being sort of open about it, which gets attention both in a good way and a bad way.
Marc:Like, it's very...
Marc:helpful to destigmatize mental illness and talk candidly about it I've been doing it here for years and many of my guests have as well but the issue is it's not going to bother David at all he doesn't mind but the clickbait fucking cancer spreaders
Marc:The malignant clickbaitists, let's just call them that.
Marc:I mean, you know, it's just like they just everywhere.
Marc:Harbor and Mental Institution.
Marc:Harbor and Mental Hospital.
Marc:Harbor, quote, I was committed to a mental asylum.
Marc:It's just like shit tons of clickbait taken out of context.
Marc:Even if people don't read that article, which many people don't, they just...
Marc:You know, glance past it and then make mental note of the clickbait and bring it up somewhere else and talk to somebody else who doesn't know shit about it.
Marc:Takes it out of context and actually does the exact opposite of what we did on the show.
Marc:It sort of stigmatizes mental illness because of the sordid approach of the attention grabbing garbage headline.
Marc:Some of them were thorough in the way they covered the episode, but many just wanted people to plant that in their head.
Marc:Just the malignant meme machine.
Marc:And I'm guilty of taking that stuff in.
Marc:I mean, hearsay is, in a lot of ways, you don't even realize it's sticking in your brain until you go, oh, yeah, I heard that he was in a mental hospital.
Marc:Yeah, I saw that article.
Marc:Did you read it?
Marc:Nah, but he must be sick.
Marc:It's just, everyone's guilty of it.
Marc:It's just a shame.
Marc:that one of the things that I do here, one of the things that many people don't have time to do anymore, don't make time to do, is talk long enough and thorough enough and emotionally connected enough to sort of move through a lot of human problems, human issues, human interests and excitements, the process of people and how they live their life.
Marc:And it just can be minimized to garbage in seconds.
Marc:by somebody who claims to be a journalist.
Marc:What kind of people are those gonna become?
Marc:What kind of people that are just these strange predatory bottom feeding maybe college graduates whose job it is working on whatever web publication they work at to sort of take something, crunch it down, rip it out of context and think of a kind of cracky little headline for it.
Marc:Where do they go on to?
Marc:What's their big future?
Marc:Is that where they stop?
Marc:Do they call themselves journalists in an era where journalism really has been phenomenal, the type of real work that journalists do?
Marc:What do the quick betas think of themselves?
Marc:Do they think they're heading in that direction where they might actually do something thorough and honest and probing and answering all the journalistic questions with all the scope of journalism?
Marc:of what is necessary to create a good piece of journalism?
Marc:Or are they just going to be Marin shits on journalism?
Marc:I just wrote a piece for them.
Marc:But it is disconcerting and sad that the cultural dialogue continues to digress to we're just gonna be, you know, just angry apes spewing bits and pieces, fragments of larger stories completely out of context, just blathering down the street, gurgling things.
Marc:Trump, lava, porn star.
Marc:Golf.
Marc:I went to Ikea to get curtain rods and I ended up buying a large patio umbrella.
Marc:That's the kind of thing that can happen there.
Marc:I just need some.
Marc:I just need a container for my thing.
Marc:Oh, look what I got.
Marc:Everything's so cheap, it's just disposable.
Marc:Got a large patio umbrella that I don't even know.
Marc:The great thing about so much that is made today, if you can accept it, is that when you buy it and you take it out of the box and you put it together, the first thought you have is, look at that piece of garbage.
Marc:Looks okay, but it's really garbage.
Marc:And you just wait for it to become actual garbage.
Marc:So did I...
Marc:Tell you a little bit about me and Vanessa's history, but it was interesting to talk to her because I hadn't seen her in a long time and she has been through quite an ordeal and she did come out on the other side of it and she is working and she's doing, you know, I've only talked to a couple of ship comics and it's an interesting life, an interesting world, but her journey all the way from childhood through to where she is now, I had no idea.
Marc:I had no idea the depth and scope of what she'd been through and where she'd been in the last few years and what she's been doing because she's one of those comics that was like she was about to happen, about to happen, and just a series of events shifted the trajectory of her life.
Marc:This is me.
Marc:talking to Vanessa Hollingshead.
Marc:I should mention that she also, she had laryngitis when she was here.
Marc:That was bad timing.
Marc:So if you go see her doing stand-up in New York or on the road, it's likely she will not sound like this.
Marc:So this is me and Vanessa Hollingshead.
Marc:So what do you do?
Marc:Like, who's that guy out there?
Guest:My friend Jeff.
Marc:He actually... Oh, he's just a buddy of yours?
Marc:He lives out here?
Guest:When I got my first development deal, he wrote the show, and then I turned down the Drew Carey show, and that was to cost me.
Guest:I remember Lucian said, well, you might have shot your last wad, honey, and you might never get another chance.
Guest:But just get really funny.
Right.
Marc:Great.
Marc:Thanks, pal.
Guest:Thank you, Lucian.
Marc:Well, I mean, I don't know what you've been doing, but I do remember there was a time where we were all sort of, where did you come from?
Marc:Because I remember that you got some big opportunities, just like you were saying, Drew Carey's show and whatever, and we can talk about that.
Marc:But I remember there was a time, when did you start doing comedy?
Guest:I did comedy in 92.
Guest:I was trained to be a Shakespearean actress.
Marc:Where did you grow up?
Guest:New York City and then in England.
Guest:My dad actually brought LSD into the country and gave it to Timothy Leary.
Marc:Your dad was the guy who did that?
Guest:Yeah, he was the guy that did that.
Marc:But was he a scientist or a chemist or drug dealer?
Guest:No, he was a drug addict alcoholic.
Marc:But was he a drug advocate?
Marc:I mean, at that time, LSD had supposedly mystical qualities.
Marc:What was his trip?
Marc:Did he live long?
Marc:Do you remember him?
Guest:Yes, I remember him.
Guest:Him and Tim Leary and Bill W. Believe it or not, Bill W. was experimenting with LSD.
Guest:They had the Concord Prison Experiment.
Marc:Bill W. from AA.
Guest:From AA.
Guest:That people got upset when he was taking acid because I was like, if you took acid for one day, did you lose your sobriety?
Guest:And they were like, yes.
Guest:But I'm like, but Bill W. took it.
Guest:like well they're he was trying to cure alcohol yes and he noticed and i wanted to see god yeah um but he in the end he said you can and same with baba ramdas baba ram i actually took lsd by accident when i was five really yes and baba ramdas what he gave me the shot of thorzyn richard albert yeah richard albert he was hanging out so your dad was in new york city or was this in london
Guest:No, my dad was in there.
Guest:He got the LSD from Albert Hoffman.
Guest:He got it.
Marc:From England.
Marc:From Switzerland.
Marc:From Switzerland.
Marc:The original LSD.
Guest:It's LSD.
Guest:It's called L-Surgic Dilimethide Acid 25.
Guest:because the 25th batch, you know, Albert Hoffman was just experimenting, and he sneezed, breathed, it's from the ergot, from a rye seed, just sneezed, went on his nose, he was bicycling through the streets of Basel, Switzerland, and the next time he was tripping his brains out.
Guest:So he got, it was LSD 25, got it to Huxley, who was writing the Doors of Perception.
Guest:My dad was friends with Huxley,
Marc:So your dad's from England?
Guest:From England.
Guest:Yeah, from Darlington.
Marc:How was he in with Huxley and all these guys?
Guest:Because he was a writer.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:And my dad wrote the book, The Man Who Turned On the World.
Guest:And then my dad, Leary, got all the credit.
Marc:Was that a successful book?
Guest:It was pretty successful.
Guest:They knew him in England, and he gave LSD to Paul McCartney.
Marc:In England.
Guest:In England.
Guest:And Paul McCartney, and they were getting the book, the Tibetan Book of the Dead.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So there's a song on the Beatles called Tomorrow Never Knows.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I know my dad wanted to meet John Lennon.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he only could meet Paul.
Guest:I'm sure he was like, well, you know, I mean.
Marc:I'll take Paul.
Guest:I'll take Paul.
Guest:I really want John, but Paul will do.
Guest:Who knows?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:He thought John would enjoy the acid more?
Guest:I think he'd enjoy John more because John was more of a rebel and my dad was a rebel.
Guest:And so he got the Tibetan Book of the Dead to John and Tomorrow Never Knows was inspired from taking LSD.
Marc:All right, so then your dad comes here and what, he's hanging out up at the mansion?
Guest:No, this is early 60s.
Marc:Right.
Guest:He's already... They got the acid early 60s.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was right before the summer of love when everything exploded, but my dad...
Guest:My dad had to get this acid to somebody.
Guest:And Tim Leary was now, Tim Leary was a psychologist at Harvard.
Guest:And he was experimenting with the blue blood.
Guest:He was experimenting with psilocybin mushrooms.
Guest:And my dad was such a conniver.
Guest:He was very shrewd.
Guest:He could meet anybody.
Guest:And someone said, Huxley said, meet this chap, Tim Leary.
Guest:So he goes to meet Tim Leary and he threatens to kill himself.
Guest:And Tim Leary said, I think he's a sociopath.
Guest:And my dad said, you've got to try this LSD.
Guest:It'll run.
Guest:It's nothing like your magic mushrooms.
Guest:and um he was smart he was a real ladies man so flo ferguson was maynard ferguson's wife the trumpet player yes yeah so i said can can you put me up you know i came all the way and tim wanted to be nice and tim was like just get rid of the guy and the annoying british guy with the with the chemical that i think is a sociopath something off about him but tim was a psychologist so he knew
Guest:so he was right yeah i had i had the joy of having him as a father right but were you born at this point yeah i was born 1960 right when all this stuff was happening and at five was when they had millbrook mansion and five millbrook upstate new york when they put the lsd on the sugar cubes and my mom wouldn't let me have any candy and i just kept eating the sugar cubes
Marc:Okay, so your dad turns Leary on, and Leary, I guess, changes his mind about your dad.
Guest:Well, Flo Ferguson.
Guest:My dad gets a hold of Flo Ferguson that's in the house in Cambridge.
Marc:Right.
Marc:This is the house where all these people are hanging out, coming and going, Richard Alpert and that whole bunch.
Guest:Right, and Tim is, I think, working at Harvard, and Flo says, Tim, you've got to try this stuff.
Guest:This is amazing.
Guest:He loved Flo.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he takes the acid and he's like, you know what, I think I was, man, I think I was wrong about you.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, you seem great.
Marc:And your hair is electric.
Guest:They called him the divine rascal.
Marc:That's what your dad was?
Guest:He was called divine rascal.
Marc:So he kind of followed that crew up to Millbrook and you followed up to Millbrook and then you got dosed when you were...
Guest:Well, my mom didn't know what to do with me.
Guest:She was very upset.
Guest:But she's not British?
Guest:She was American.
Guest:She said, when I met your father, I hated all men.
Guest:And after I married him, I hated everybody.
Guest:What'd she do?
Guest:She was his secretary, and she met my dad at Oxford University Press, and she just wanted to be a mom.
Guest:She was madly in love with him, and he was a bit of a player, so that marriage went south.
Marc:How quickly, though?
Marc:How old were you?
Guest:Like one, and he was already seeing other women, yeah.
Guest:And I have a stepsister and a stepbrother,
Guest:so when you why were you if he was off and running why were you in new york you was he were you in his custody or my mom wanted to said uh i'm putting vanessa up for adoption i can't take care of her and my dad said bring her to let her have some fresh air in the country the country will do her good and there was hippies millbrook mansion
Guest:Yeah, there was rooms filled with, they would experiment.
Guest:They would take an iguana and a rabbit and a monkey and give them all acid.
Guest:See how they did?
Marc:And a baby.
Guest:And a baby.
Guest:Yeah, one or two.
Guest:Baby, some candy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you're up there and how old are you at that moment?
Guest:Five.
Marc:You're five.
Marc:So you have vague memories?
Guest:No, I remember like something was really wrong that day.
Guest:But we had a...
Marc:The day you took the acid?
Guest:The day I took the acid.
Guest:I remember my dad was now seeing this woman, Britta, and I remember I used to love the trampoline.
Guest:I remember jumping up and down on the trampoline and all of a sudden I just saw fluorescent worms everywhere.
Guest:and i remember going to see my dad and i started screaming for britta and we had alex i think alex was maynard ferguson's son we both saw the same thing and i remember she grabbed me in one hand and alex in the other and i looked at my dad and i said dad look at the pictures ripping look at my nails getting smaller
Guest:And my dad was like, oh, fuck, she got into the acid.
Guest:And he didn't know how many trips I took because I used to leave it on sugar cubes.
Guest:So I said, do you remember what happened that day?
Guest:He goes, I remember I drove you for like, must have been 12 hours, and you just said, look at the purple trees.
Guest:And I was mortified that you might have brain damage.
Guest:oh so he cared yeah i was like wow thanks dad thank you and then he um then he got me to richard albert had a little shack in millbrook mansion and i and he was just coming into his i think homosexuality it was very taboo and richard albert had like a bag of tricks and just i remember getting the shot of thorzyn i remember like i i
Guest:I remember my dad picking me up like this and the shot and I was out and that was it.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:So they just knocked you out?
Guest:Knocked me right out.
Marc:And you processed it, you woke up, you were okay?
Guest:Yeah, it was great.
Guest:I just became a comedian, had nothing but dysfunctional relationships afterwards and hated myself.
Guest:Yeah, no, it worked out great.
Marc:So you trace it back to that.
Marc:Well, I mean, so you're five then.
Marc:So how do you grow up?
Marc:You grow up with him?
Marc:Why did your mother think she couldn't take care of you?
Guest:She was starting to come a little bit unglued.
Guest:I ended up being in and out of many foster homes.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my dad was now, they were starting to crack down on Millbrook Mansion.
Guest:That was the introduction of MKUltra and the CIA.
Marc:So they took the acid.
Marc:They got hold of the acid.
Guest:Well, Gordon Liddy.
Guest:Remember Gordon Liddy surrounded.
Guest:And then Gordon Liddy and Leary ended up being on tour.
Guest:Like they did a comedy show together.
Marc:But once acid was introduced and the CIA got a hold of it, they started to do the experiments to see what it was capable of.
Guest:Now my dad ended up going back to England because he was going to be the London affiliate.
Guest:Yeah, of MKUltra?
Guest:No, no, of the LSD when all this was happening.
Guest:And he had 25 hours, I think the CIA said, you either tell us what you know, you have 24 hours to get out of the country.
Guest:So when he got back to England,
Guest:He started to get addicted to methamphetamine.
Guest:My dad had a really bad, he had untreated alcoholism and methamphetamine issues.
Guest:So he got addicted to the methamphetamine.
Guest:This is when he gave Paul McCartney the LSD.
Guest:And for two roaches,
Guest:Got sentenced to 16 years in Wormwood.
Guest:Does not sound like a Dickens.
Guest:Wormwood prison.
Guest:And he decided to be his own lawyer when he was high on acid.
Guest:And it got him another like six months.
Guest:He heard the police getting ready to come.
Guest:And you know in England you flush the loo and the two roaches joints came up from the...
Guest:The bathroom and the police officer was like, well, what seems to be here?
Guest:What's to be to marijuana roaches?
Guest:And then my dad said, well, isn't that where they belong?
Guest:In the toilet.
Marc:And that just cost him.
Marc:So he went to jail for a while?
Guest:16 months.
Marc:And then that's when he started going into foster homes?
Marc:No.
Guest:Well, I was going in and out of them.
Guest:At two, my mother put me up for adoption.
Guest:Then three, I was back with her.
Guest:Then four, I was with her somewhere else.
Guest:Then five, a little bit at Millbrook.
Marc:Did she have mental problems?
Guest:No, she was completely sane.
Marc:Yeah, but I mean, like, what was her trip?
Marc:I mean, she just couldn't handle it.
Guest:Oh, I don't know what her trip was.
Marc:Is she still alive?
Guest:No, she died six years ago.
Guest:It was the first time we were close.
Guest:I was kind of like her mom.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my mother was like Blanche Dubois, but on drugs.
Guest:My mother had gotten brutalized in Bed-Stuy.
Guest:She'd gotten beaten.
Guest:She'd gotten raped.
Guest:Uh...
Guest:and I was going to school, and I was trying to, and that's when I used to listen to music, the Beatles, and pretend, you know, Paul or John marries me, I'll be out of this.
Marc:And your father was in jail, or you just weren't talking to him?
Guest:He was in jail, and no one knew, and my mother was so angry at him, she made sure we, he eventually found me, hired a detective, found me in Cambrai Island, and they lived on the commune.
Guest:I mean, it was just a lot of... What commune?
Guest:I lived in Dorshill commune, got his girlfriend...
Guest:He was now running the Free High Church in Cambrai Island giving LSD.
Guest:Where is that?
Guest:That was off the island coast of Scotland, Cambrai Island, giving LSD to...
Marc:Oh, so he was really doing the 60s.
Guest:He never got over the... I said, Dad, the 60s are gone.
Guest:They're done.
Guest:You need to move on.
Marc:Was he like the guru of this island?
Marc:Was it a cult situation?
Guest:It wasn't a cult situation.
Guest:He just so believed in... Him and Leary were idealists.
Guest:They believed if everyone could take LSD, they would see God and the world would be a better place.
Guest:And I said, but you're having a lot of...
Guest:crazy people and young people that don't have a shot living in harlem and living in in tenements without a shot they're taking lsd yeah and they're not getting the same vision yeah you can control this substance with cute blonde hippie women that you can have sex with and lots of good food and great things to read i said not everyone has that opportunity
Guest:You said that to him?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He said, shut the fuck up, you straight fucking shit.
Guest:I mean, he would just get so angry at me.
Marc:How old were you when you were saying that stuff to him?
Guest:Oh, like 12.
Guest:12, 13.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:But what were the foster homes like?
Marc:I mean, what was that?
Guest:Oh, they were awful.
Guest:They were awful.
Guest:But the one home, thank God this woman.
Guest:I lived at...
Guest:410 Central Park West when I was two when I was three and Gracie my best friend was two her mother noticed that I would run around with no very little clothes on and she said you used to knock on people's doors and I don't have any recollection asking people for food you'd always be entertaining and
Guest:you became good friends with my little daughter gracie and gracie and i to this day we're still best friends i mean we've got this like it's beyond sisters like her mother saved my life i know he said i will always take care of gracie but her mother said i'll never forget like going over to your mother's place and i'd missed a lot of school and we were in bed sty now and my mother had like her teeth knocked out and
Guest:and I would have to go visit her, and I didn't know what would take place, and I had been brutalized.
Guest:I remember like, and this is when I just believed that there's got to be some God.
Guest:I remember this gang of kids broke in and I was like, you know, eight.
Guest:And I remember they just broke in and I just was just like praying nothing would happen to me.
Guest:And they said, where's the money?
Guest:And I said, it's on the refrigerator.
Guest:And it was just like 35 cents.
Guest:They went, oh, shit.
Guest:And they threw the change on the floor and they just walked out.
Guest:And I remember thinking...
Guest:Something has got to be looking out for me.
Guest:But Big Ray said, you would miss almost six months of school.
Guest:You were going to put you in a foster home, and you were too sensitive.
Guest:No, a reform school.
Guest:You never would have lasted.
Guest:So she took me in.
Guest:And she changed my entire life.
Guest:Gracie's mom changed my entire life.
Guest:She was German.
Guest:And I remember reading about the Holocaust and, you know, just reading about this.
Guest:And I said, came home from school, I'm like, why did you kill six million Jews?
Guest:She was like, oh, we did not kill six million Jews.
Guest:Hitler was Austrian.
Guest:We are German.
Guest:He did that.
Marc:So I was like, oh, all right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:We had nothing to do with it.
Guest:We had nothing to do with that.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:And that's where you primarily grow up with her family?
Guest:For one year.
Guest:Then my dad finds me.
Guest:He's in Cambrai Island.
Guest:He becomes friends with this woman, Myra Coppersmith.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:crazy jewish woman with just larger than life woman has like an affair with her and goes you get vanessa back you just get her get her to cambrai island and we'll we just get her yeah so she meets me she's like a character she ends up being completely
Guest:orthodox jew like marries like she's now mariam she lives in israel and i ended up meeting bob dylan because her husband mayor yeah he's good friends with bob dylan so mariam said i'd love to be like your mother and i remember she introduced me to james taylor and carol king and brooklyn and like this whole world and was he on dope then was she a druggie
Marc:Was Myra a druggie?
Guest:No, Myra liked pot.
Guest:I remember she liked pot.
Guest:I remember she never wore a bra.
Guest:She had the om sign.
Guest:She was hippie.
Marc:And her husband knew Dylan?
Guest:My husband met Dylan years later.
Guest:She converted.
Guest:She went from being reformed orthodox Buddhist to being devout.
Marc:Full orthodox.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And that's when Dylan was at too?
Yeah.
Guest:That Dylan was just, I remember meeting Dylan years ago, like in 1990, like in 1990, 91.
Guest:And she invites me over to a Seder, which I'd never been to.
Guest:And there was Bob Dylan.
Guest:And there was these three rabbis that were very funny.
Guest:And I remember Bob Dylan and he just like...
Guest:He just completely fell right in his food.
Guest:And I said to Miriam, I said, I think he's on something stronger than Manischewitz wine.
Marc:He fell in his food?
Guest:Fell right in his food.
Guest:But I'll never forget, we were both washing our hands.
Guest:and we had to like wash the hands and I was like this is fucking Bob Dylan and I was like I couldn't you know like when you met you talking Keith you just get all excited and I was and say hey hey um I love lay lady lay lay that's it thank you he goes what do you do I'm like I just started doing comedy he's like wow that's brave
Marc:Bob Dylan.
Guest:Bob Dylan thought I was brave.
Marc:So that was that late.
Marc:So you'd already started doing comedy when you were... Just six months in.
Guest:I was just six months in.
Marc:So that relationship with Myra sort of evolved.
Marc:But you stayed with Big and Little Grace for a while.
Marc:And then where did you end up?
Guest:Well, the commune.
Guest:My dad.
Guest:My Miriam put me in this commune.
Guest:And there were all the draft arches.
Guest:Miriam.
Guest:Myra became Miriam.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:They were all the draft dodgers from Cornell University in Ithaca.
Guest:And she said, I will be like the mother you never had and take care of you.
Guest:So I get to this commune.
Guest:There's no electricity.
Guest:I'm this kid from Brooklyn.
Guest:I love bologna sandwiches and hot pants and Barbie dolls.
Yeah.
Guest:they milk the goats you've got to pump water for the well yeah like they're growing pot everywhere people are having sex they're doing drugs yeah this is really too much too much and i had to live in my own yurt build my own firewood i'm like well i got all the skills if i ever had to like go to siberia go off the grid right yeah so they didn't she never told me this they asked her to leave
Guest:He said, after like two weeks, they said, you leave, but we want the little girl to stay.
Guest:I thought Myra didn't want me.
Marc:And your dad's there too, right?
Guest:No, my dad is furious with Myra because Myra said, listen, I was supposed to bring you back to Cambrai Island, but your dad's not very nice.
Guest:He's mean.
Guest:He's got a dark side.
Guest:And I remember my mother saying, he's got a dark side.
Guest:So...
Guest:in a year from a year later my dad drove up to the commune and flipped out and he goes the reason why this commune exists because of me because I gave you acid all this fucking free fucking love is me just leave me the fuck alone I'll shoot all of you fucking fucks so that was my dad we were at the commune so he's holed up in this yurt like thing
Guest:And everyone's being very polite with him.
Guest:And they're like, dude, you know, your dad's really violent.
Guest:And then he says to me, you have your choice.
Guest:He goes, listen to that.
Guest:So you have your choice.
Guest:You can either stay at this commune or you can come to Boston.
Guest:If you stay at the commune, you'll never, ever fucking see me again or come to Boston.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I was now fitting in in the commune.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:I was 12 now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And 1973, 74, 13.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was the first time I was kind of reunited with my dad again, and I didn't...
Guest:When you have not had a father or a mother and you could look at something and know it's your blood, even if it's drunk blood, high blood, whatever, I could look at my dad's eyes and go, I know those eyes.
Guest:And I loved him.
Guest:I looked up.
Guest:My mom was like an enigma.
Guest:And my mom always told me, I never really got jealous of women because my mom said, you can be anyone you want to be and look whoever you want to look.
Guest:And all I ever want to do is look like her.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And, you know, without the teeth being knocked out, the bra over her dress.
Marc:So you go to Boston.
Guest:So I go to Boston, and they just started the busing.
Guest:There was so much racism and anti-Semitism and just disgusting.
Guest:Like, I grew up with black kids.
Guest:There was no prejudice.
Guest:You know, I lived in black neighborhoods.
Guest:So my dad...
Guest:Sent me to private school.
Guest:Said, I don't want anyone to beat the shit out of you.
Guest:And he was now with this new woman, Oriole.
Guest:So now I'm introduced to what it's like to be with an alcoholic, the likes I hadn't seen.
Guest:And he had two sides to him.
Guest:And when my dad was on, he was as charming as can be.
Guest:And the dark side, he would punch holes through the wall.
Guest:He took my guitar once, smashed it.
Guest:And then I remember he said, you know, the next time I drink a little too much, just put on the Beatles week and walk it out.
Guest:I'm like, is that before or after you smash my phonograph?
Guest:Just tell me.
Guest:So I learned really young, if I was sarcastic and didn't raise my voice,
Guest:um i could say how i spoke if i got loud with my dad because i was seething i was enraged that he left us yeah um it would get violent so i think those were the roots of did he hit you yeah yeah yeah but not a lot yeah nothing like out of i tanya or anything right so you go so you you go through high school in boston
Guest:I finished high school in a year and a half, finished prep school, graduate with honors.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then my dad decides he hates Americans.
Guest:He was always, he gets to England, he hated the English.
Guest:He gets to America, he hated Americans.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So he leaves me in Boston and now I'm like kind of homeless.
Guest:for a few months, and then I rejoined him in London.
Guest:But I had friends by now, but I was now experimenting.
Guest:I lost my virginity very early.
Guest:How old?
Guest:13.
Guest:How'd that happen?
Guest:This older kid, and I was drinking, and I was very little alcohol.
Guest:I would always get sick.
Guest:And then I slept with one of my teachers.
Marc:At prep school?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When you were?
Guest:13, 14.
Marc:Really?
Guest:And I didn't know.
Guest:He could have gotten in a lot of trouble.
Guest:I really did.
Guest:I really never reported them.
Guest:But I'll never forget.
Guest:I won the philosophy award.
Marc:Do you regret not reporting?
Marc:No.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:I don't.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:I don't.
Guest:But you know, when you've been like...
Guest:wrongly touched and mistreated.
Guest:I was talking to somebody about sexual predators.
Guest:For someone who survived it, if Harvey Weinstein would have said, listen, do you mind watching me take a shower naked?
Guest:I'm like, you're going to make me six lead in your movie?
Guest:Here's the soap, here's the towel.
Guest:My guest.
Guest:But my friend Jeannie said, when you haven't been touched inappropriately, it's inappropriate.
Guest:When someone's been...
Marc:touched inappropriately they don't know the difference and it's all about survival there's no boundary there there's no boundary so so you're saying that you were a few months on your own homeless and you start what you started doing drugs and stuff or no i never i went back to the commune and i couldn't go back who's flying you back and forth
Guest:No, my friend Frank Moss, who was from the commune, I was in New York.
Guest:I ended up going to Ithaca.
Guest:He paid for my bus ticket.
Marc:From Boston.
Guest:Yeah, and now I'm like 15.
Guest:I'm like, now I'm 15.
Guest:I'm out of high school, finish early.
Guest:I'm starting to put on a lot of weight.
Guest:I don't know what's going on.
Guest:I'm coming into... I'm just feeling... I'm not really drinking or drugging that much.
Guest:I'm really... I just wanted to look like a skinny model.
Guest:I just was so unsure of myself.
Guest:And...
Guest:I went back to the commune, and you couldn't go back.
Guest:So I ended up staying with my friend Estelin, who lived on the commune, and I got a job as a dishwasher.
Guest:I was trying to get waitress work, and I was so shy.
Guest:I was painfully shy.
Guest:I would walk in and I'm like, look for anybody.
Guest:And Estelin said, why don't you use your acting ability?
Guest:She goes, yeah, talk with a British accent.
Guest:Like, talk with a British accent.
Marc:Is that something you did with her, like, for fun?
Guest:All the time.
Guest:It was always, hello.
Guest:So I said, I was wondering if you were looking for any waitresses.
Guest:I just came from London and would really like to work here.
Guest:It was like...
Guest:Well, you don't need any waitresses.
Guest:You need a dishwasher.
Guest:You're fine.
Guest:I'll take it.
Guest:I'll be a dishwasher.
Guest:You'll be a dishwasher and you had to do the accent?
Guest:For eight hours.
Guest:I had so much.
Guest:I was so afraid.
Guest:I said, excellent.
Guest:I got the job, but I'm a dishwasher.
Guest:But for eight hours, I've been talking a British accent.
Marc:Right.
Guest:She's like, tell them you were so desperate.
Guest:I'm like, no, no, no, no.
Guest:You got to commit.
Guest:I got to.
Guest:No, I can't like.
Marc:The role of a lifetime.
Guest:And then I told my dad.
Guest:My dad's laughing on the phone.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm like, you find this funny, dad?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This is my acting role?
Guest:This is the world?
Guest:This is my oyster?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, well, this would be a wonderful story, darling.
Guest:And don't work on your accent.
Guest:It's quite funny, really.
Guest:I mean, for you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you just kept laughing.
Guest:Wonderful story.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I called it Big Race.
Guest:It was like, again, my savior saving grace.
Guest:I'm like, I'm a dishwasher in Rochester with the British accent.
Guest:And she's like, you just come back to Brooklyn.
Guest:We'll figure something out.
Guest:And she sees me.
Guest:And I'm like, black hair, black hair.
Guest:Magenta lipstick, 50 pounds heavier.
Guest:And I remember, hi, big race.
Guest:And she was like.
Marc:Terrified.
Marc:Like, what happened to you?
Guest:And she goes, you look healthy.
Guest:I'm like, that means fat.
Guest:And she's like, no, no, we'll put you on a, no, we're going to, see, good nutritionist.
Guest:And she said, now you have your choice.
Guest:You're either going to go to Betty Owens Secretarial School.
Uh-huh.
Guest:And I'm like, I'm meant to be great.
Guest:I was meant to be.
Guest:Or you could be a hairdresser.
Guest:Because I used to give my doll share haircuts.
Guest:So I went to Betty Owens Secretarial School.
Guest:And she goes, one day when you get ready to win your Oscar, you go thank your typewriter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was the slowest one in the class, but I typed like 22 words a minute, never knowing would be like my saving grace.
Guest:And I used to get nervous when I'd have to take typing tests because I was with MTV.
Guest:I was trying to go to, now I got a scholarship to Lee Strasberg.
Guest:I got accepted at NYU.
Marc:How'd that all happen?
Guest:I auditioned for Lee Strasberg Theatrical Institute when I was 18.
Marc:After you did the secretarial school, you got a job in the city and you were going into work?
Guest:I was a temp.
Guest:I was now a temp all over the offices in New York.
Guest:And I would always fail at the typing test.
Guest:So I learned how to...
Guest:see the test, know that they would turn it around.
Guest:It used to be a lot easier to cheat.
Guest:So I would take the actual test slowly and say, I'm ready for my typing test.
Guest:And it would be the actual, and I remember like, I remember getting in an MTV.
Guest:I was at MTV when that just opened.
Marc:You were temping there?
Guest:Temping there.
Guest:And they said, wow, you type 76 words a minute.
Marc:I'm like, yeah.
Marc:So when did you audition at Strasbourg?
Guest:Strasburg was when I was 18.
Marc:And this is when you were temping and stuff?
Guest:I just started temping.
Guest:I had to work before I could get my typing up.
Guest:I was working as a cashier.
Guest:I had to work as a sandwich maker.
Guest:I had to get my typing skills up.
Guest:And I knew that if someone would hire me, I would practice.
Guest:So that's why I had to cheat.
Guest:And then Big Race was like...
Guest:If you got to lie to survive, you do what you got to do.
Guest:Don't lie unless it's to survive.
Guest:Then you can lie.
Guest:So I was like, all right.
Marc:Thanks for the wisdom.
Marc:So what happened to Strasburg?
Guest:Strasburg was the most...
Guest:you got in that you got in when i got in i was so happy i like i studied with al pacino's teacher charlie lawton oh yeah i just wanted how long how long were you there like four years really so you auditioned there you went there to work as a temp right no i auditioned there i first class i had to pay for and it was oh i see so then they offered you like you could work and
Guest:Well, my teacher said, you know, she's talented.
Guest:She put in a word for me, and that was Barbara Portier.
Guest:That was Sidney Portier's cousin.
Guest:And I remember thinking that I went... She said, do you know why you're in my class?
Guest:And I said, well, obviously, because they must have seen something.
Guest:And it killed her.
Guest:It goes...
Guest:No, they thought you had some emotional issues because you were painfully shy and I'm a psychologist and an acting teacher and they thought you'd do well with me.
Guest:And then I started to excel but I remember
Guest:The first time I learned about method acting, it was humiliating because I thought, you just think you're talented.
Guest:You just think that you've got something.
Guest:And I'm doing my monologue.
Guest:I'm overacting.
Guest:And I'm just like, and then the train and this came and no one looked.
Guest:No one even gave a damn.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:scene and she's burst out laughing.
Guest:My teacher burst out laughing, the students burst out laughing and I start to feel the heat.
Guest:You know when the heat starts to, and she's like, Van, I'm gonna call you Van.
Guest:I want you to do that again, but just say it.
Guest:Just say it.
Guest:Say the words.
Guest:I'm like, but there's blood in it.
Guest:Just say the words.
Guest:Just speak.
Guest:And I started to speak.
Guest:I started to feel connected with what I was speaking.
Guest:And the emotions just came out of something organic.
Guest:And she said, that is the beginning of
Guest:of acting.
Guest:And that was like the beginning, that was the journey.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:So you're there for four years.
Guest:Four years.
Marc:And then when and how did you start doing comedy?
Marc:Did you go, was the only school you did was the Method studio?
Marc:Was it with Strasburg?
Guest:Was Method and then my teacher was like, you know, use this when you need it.
Guest:If you're emotional, don't, this is, now throw out everything you learned.
Guest:You know when you get taught that, like, learn all this and throw it out.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So now I was in my early 20s.
Guest:My dad was now on to the next woman.
Guest:My sister was already born.
Guest:He met a woman in London.
Guest:I moved back with him briefly in London.
Guest:Then he moved.
Guest:He lived at...
Guest:355 Mercer Street, and he gives me that place, and I'm living with, again, all these hippies.
Guest:You can hear them having sex.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was just, and then... But you're in your 20s now.
Guest:I'm in my 20s.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm working like a dog.
Guest:I'm working like 80 hours at Dean and DeLuca to pay for my acting credit.
Marc:What year, 90-something?
Guest:This was now 89, 90.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Guest:And... No, 80, like the 80s.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The 80s.
Guest:And long story short, 1984, he dies.
Guest:Big Race dies.
Marc:My life is like... Your old man dies and Big Race dies?
Guest:The same year.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:The same year.
Guest:And I'd been in a fight with Big Race.
Guest:We'd never fought.
Guest:If we did, we always made up.
Guest:And I was... That was it.
Guest:Tuesday, we fought on a Tuesday, and I couldn't stand not getting along with her.
Guest:And I went to call her on Thursday, and they said, she's gone, she died.
Guest:She ended up having like a leg amputated.
Guest:She didn't know she had diabetes.
Guest:I never got to say I loved her.
Guest:And then my dad was screaming at me for his old girlfriend.
Guest:Never got to say I loved him, so I just, he was just screaming.
Guest:And then I had no idea.
Guest:How'd he die?
Guest:He died in Bolivia.
Guest:I believe it was from a bleeding ulcer, but I believe it was due to, he said they were running a Joe Jabba plantation, which I think they were running a cocaine plantation.
Guest:Joe Jabba covered it, but he was getting thinner and he'd send me pictures.
Guest:He used to write really tiny because in prison, he learned how to write really well.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:His writing was now getting just erratic, and he was getting thinner and thinner.
Guest:And I remember thinking, something's not good here.
Guest:And he passed away, and we were always fighting by this point.
Guest:And Big Race helped me through.
Guest:Big Race said, he's like Rumpelstiltskin.
Guest:Can you see him as a cartoon character?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just see him as a cartoon character.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'll never forget, he'd start yelling.
Guest:She had a horn.
Guest:She's like, just blast him with this horn.
Guest:So I remember my dad screaming at me.
Guest:I'm like, Dad, can you hold on a second?
Guest:What?
Guest:What the fuck?
Marc:An air horn?
Guest:Air horn.
Guest:And then we just start laughing.
Guest:But she took away... She helped like...
Guest:She humanized the whole situation.
Guest:She made him more cartoon-like, which made my rage and his insanity more palpable.
Marc:And they both die in the same year.
Guest:Same year.
Marc:It's terrible.
Guest:That was a shitty year.
Guest:And that was like in the 80s.
Guest:In 1984.
Guest:And my dad said, the world is going to end in 1984.
Guest:And his world was going to end in 1984.
Guest:It's like he saw his own premonition.
Guest:And I'll never forget when Big Race died, my mother and I went up to the roof.
Guest:I was listening to Wishing You Were Here by Chicago.
Guest:And she said, you must feel like you lost your own mother.
Guest:She's more of a mom than I ever was.
Guest:I was like, yeah, but you're still my mom.
Guest:You'll always be my mom.
Guest:So it almost took me two years to recover from that.
Guest:And so I was to associate, as I began to understand recovery, addiction, codependency,
Guest:You started going to meetings?
Guest:I started going to meetings.
Guest:Which kind?
Guest:Potential drinker.
Guest:You were drinking?
Guest:Very little.
Guest:But I knew, I was like, I can't be like my dad.
Guest:I cannot.
Guest:So I barely had a problem.
Guest:but I something said just go to a meeting yeah and then I at 29 I was in Astoria I wanted I'm like how did I just wanted to be a cop on a series I just wanted to act now like just a secretary like this is
Marc:You were living in Astoria?
Guest:Living in Astoria.
Guest:My friend said, you know what?
Guest:When you tell me what your day at work is, it's so much funnier than shit I see on TV.
Guest:You should be a comedian.
Guest:I'm like, oh, stop.
Guest:What?
Guest:No.
Guest:She goes, I'm telling you, you're funny.
Guest:I'm like, that's because, you know, you love me.
Guest:I'm telling you, you're funny.
Guest:Just try it.
Guest:I'm like, come.
Guest:And I'll never forget, that was 1992.
Guest:Within two years, I had a development deal.
Guest:And everything came together.
Guest:Where'd you go on first?
Guest:How'd you start?
Guest:Gladys' Comedy Club.
Guest:And I brought all the girls from the office.
Guest:And I went on like four hours later.
Guest:And I remember getting on stage going... No one would even laugh at Richard Pryor if he came on at this point.
Guest:The second I was on stage, I was like...
Guest:I'm home.
Guest:No one could take this away from me because I would always be doing plays if I could, but I was always like the director, the actor, and then I was a musician too.
Guest:I was always getting the band together, learning the songs, trying to get the gigs, and I'm like, if I do this on my own, I can only let myself down and I can be independent and I won't need to rely on anybody for anything.
Guest:I won't need anybody.
Marc:I remember seeing you around early on, I guess at the strip or stand up New York.
Marc:And you did some, you were, you're a big brassy act and you did some characters.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And, uh, but you, you, you were definitely, uh, like sort of high energy and like you really got the crowd, you know, and that was like right from the beginning you were doing it like that.
Guest:Yeah, well, I went to audition for Lucian.
Marc:Lucian Holt, the booker of the comics driven, part owner, right?
Marc:Was he part owner?
Guest:No, no, not part owner.
Guest:He wanted to be.
Guest:They never let him.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:They really, yeah.
Marc:These are a million years.
Marc:They never let him get a piece of it?
Guest:They never let him.
Guest:I'll never forget when he got deathly ill.
Guest:And I said, Lucian, you've got to let them know you need help.
Guest:You can't go on like this.
Guest:And I was like basically a nurse by now and bandaging him up.
Guest:And he's like, no, no, they can't know because I might lose my job.
Guest:They'll lose, I'll lose my job.
Guest:And it was the first time I was like,
Guest:holy shit, you're vulnerable.
Guest:I felt like, you know, the Wizard of Oz.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, right.
Guest:Like, oh my God, you're Oz.
Marc:Interesting, interesting.
Guest:You're Oz.
Marc:But we'll get to that.
Marc:So in 92, you start doing comedy in New York clubs.
Marc:Did you get past, where were you past?
Marc:Where'd you work in?
Guest:I was doing gay rooms.
Guest:I couldn't get any, I was...
Guest:Michelle Ballin.
Guest:Do you know Michelle Ballin?
Guest:I think I remember her.
Guest:She said, you can come up with us to Provincetown, but you have to do some gay songs and be gay.
Guest:I'm like, but I'm not gay.
Guest:She's like, well, you're going to have to act gay because I'll get you stage time.
Guest:So we had to do like... So I went up there and...
Guest:And I got one of my jokes from there because I was like, wow, they're all going to come on to me.
Guest:They'll just want me and I'll be straight.
Guest:And not one of them looked my way.
Guest:I'll never forget that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Michelle said, because you don't smile.
Guest:Wouldn't kill you to smile.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then Lucien.
Guest:um they said i was told he was satan he was lucifer he will don't get involved with him he will destroy you it was the mid 90s and he was the he he had the well he was the the entryway to the comic strip right and had been for years yes and he saw him so i'm the i'm the keeper at the gate yeah um
Guest:I have to tell who comes in and who comes out.
Guest:I used to think, God, this guy's really full of himself.
Marc:But did you audition for him?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I was in there for an hour, and Michelle said, I knew how badly you wanted to be passed at the comic book.
Guest:I thought you were blowing him.
Guest:I'm like, no, that came later.
Guest:He passed me, and he goes, um...
Guest:You do these characters.
Guest:I don't know anything about you.
Guest:I'm like, yes, but I'm an actress.
Guest:He goes, well, so you say.
Guest:He was so... I go, well, but I am.
Guest:Well, so you say.
Guest:No offense.
Guest:I don't know you.
Guest:No, I want you to go on stage and just...
Guest:talk to the audience i don't i don't know what to no they're here to listen to me no they're there because you need to like i said i don't know what to say to an audience he goes where'd you get that tie where are you from you just and i said but i'm not gonna get laughs and i'll never forget he goes vanessa i'm giving you permission to bomb
Guest:And it was like one of the... So he let me kind of bomb.
Guest:And I remember he goes... And what did that do?
Guest:How did that help you?
Guest:It made me feel there was at least someone in my corner.
Guest:If I didn't do well, I'd get a spot.
Guest:And he would only give me spots like a Tuesday night, once every eight, nine weeks.
Guest:And he was always talking politics and everyone was always talking.
Guest:I would just have my notebook and be shy.
Guest:And he'd say, you should talk to people.
Guest:He goes, are you a lesbian?
Guest:I'm like, no, I'm smart.
Guest:Why if a guy comes in here with his notebook?
Guest:He's straight.
Guest:But if I sit here with my notebook, I'm a lesbian.
Guest:He goes, well, you were...
Guest:wear an army jacket, you have short hair, you have magenta lipstick, you don't talk to anyone, and you just told me that you were in Provincetown.
Guest:I'm like, oh, okay, I could see that.
Guest:And then Dennis Wolfberg was his dearest friend, and I was going to this church, and Lucian, like no one knew this.
Guest:I loved Lucian, I think, more than he loved.
Guest:I loved him more than he loved me.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:He went to that Unitarian church.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I was going to this other church and they got this like Southern windbag minister.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was around Easter.
Guest:And I just asked him what church he goes.
Guest:He goes, oh, Unitarian Universalist.
Guest:The only time you hear Jesus is if the janitor stubs his toe.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Would you like to join me for Easter?
Guest:He just lost his best friend, Dennis Wolfberg.
Guest:And he liked me.
Guest:And all I'm hearing is, Satan, you'll be destroyed.
Guest:All that work for nothing.
Guest:If you sleep with this guy, you're done.
Marc:Why do people say that?
Guest:That's what they said.
Guest:They were frightened.
Guest:Men and women were intimidated by Lucian.
Guest:All right, so you go to church with them.
Guest:Go to church with them.
Guest:And then I'm starting to talk about, you can come up to the podium and speak.
Guest:And my mother...
Guest:finally got hired at the welfare office.
Guest:After being on welfare for 18 years, the welfare office finally gives her a job working at welfare.
Guest:Lucian thought my hippie parent jokes, my mother stuff, he thought it was all... He said, you seem very well-rounded, grounded.
Guest:He said that...
Guest:your parents really i said yeah he goes that wasn't made i said no you did it at the church i did at the church i said my mother did a lot of drugs yeah she finally gets hired at the welfare office and she gets fired she was like last hired first fired and he said then he said would you like to grab some lunch i'm like all right
Guest:And he said, your dad, you joke about the LSD.
Guest:And I said, no, no, that's really true.
Guest:And then he said, intriguing, very intriguing.
Guest:And then his friend Dennis Wolfberg died.
Guest:And he was kind of fond of me.
Guest:I could tell it.
Guest:And I was like,
Guest:this is really fucked up.
Guest:I'm attracted to him, but this is fucked up.
Guest:But this is, you know, and I couldn't think straight because it was like so taboo that it was exciting, but so taboo.
Guest:Because he was the club owner?
Guest:He was the club owner.
Guest:He was also a father figure I never had.
Guest:He also was emotionally removed, which made me associate love with longing.
Guest:He had, he like had the trifecta of being the perfect kind of messed upness for me to just want.
Yeah.
Guest:But he wasn't explosive, was he?
Guest:No, he was just... No, but it was his way of the...
Guest:Withdrawn.
Guest:Withdrawn and removed.
Guest:And I just would win.
Guest:My love would win him over.
Marc:Just kind of pounding at the door.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I would win him over.
Guest:But, yeah, when we first moved in together, he said, I said, listen, I chain smoke.
Guest:I'm on the phone a lot.
Guest:It takes me a couple hours to draw my hair.
Guest:But other than that, I have a really effervescent personality.
Guest:Now, is there anything I ought to know about you?
Guest:Keep the toilet seat up.
Guest:You clip your toenails in bed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he goes, um...
Guest:If you disappoint me in any way, I will withhold all my love from you.
Guest:I'm like, oh.
Marc:And you're like, great.
Guest:Great.
Guest:And I was like, yeah, literally, great.
Guest:I'm moving in.
Guest:I will not disappoint.
Marc:So you're doing comedy a couple of years.
Guest:Two years, yes.
Marc:And then you get seen by who?
Guest:Get seen by Amy Intercaso-Davis.
Guest:I had a huge showcase at Caroline's.
Guest:She was supposed to be at the Montreal Comedy Festival.
Guest:Tony Camacho is now...
Guest:was my manager.
Guest:And I said, you know, Tony, I want to work on some new stuff.
Guest:It was the first time I was at Caroline's that ever had so many laughs in my life.
Guest:I seen the original tape.
Guest:When you look at it, I'm just registering getting so many laughs.
Guest:And there was a joy.
Guest:Like, we lose that.
Guest:Have you ever, like, watched your sets when there's joyfulness?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then you're trying to be so technically proficient and nail your bits and you forget to smile.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Look at how much you love.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:It was a good night.
Guest:It was a great night.
Guest:And she was there?
Guest:Amy Intercaso-Davis said, we sent out a fly to 500 people.
Guest:She was the one.
Guest:And she said, I was the one person that didn't go up to Montreal Comedy Festival.
Guest:She goes, I want to see you in my office.
Guest:In two weeks, your entire life's going to be different.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I bring my contract into my tent place.
Guest:I'm like, this is, they really like me.
Guest:And I don't even take it seriously.
Guest:And she says, she takes the tape.
Guest:I take this work tape, never knowing that that work tape was going to get me 60 meetings in all of Los Angeles.
Guest:And Drew Carey,
Guest:But you fly out here?
Guest:Fly out to LA.
Guest:For meetings.
Guest:For meetings.
Marc:And these are for?
Guest:Meeting after meeting after meeting.
Marc:To get a development deal.
Guest:They all want to give me development deals.
Guest:They all want to.
Guest:And I feel like Cinderella.
Guest:I didn't know what was happening to me.
Guest:And...
Guest:Jeff Abagov, who's out there, he wrote this show called The Billy Club.
Guest:Carsey Warner said, please go into business with us.
Guest:And all I knew was how to be loyal.
Guest:It's like you go with, you don't just, I didn't know a bird in the hand is better than two in the, I didn't know a lot.
Guest:If I would have known what I knew now, I wouldn't have been, but I just thought loyalty.
Guest:So Drew Carey,
Marc:So you're going out with the guy who's on my porch right now with his show and Carsey Warner wants to do it?
Guest:No, they're just bringing him in as a writer.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Carsey Warner's like... They got a show.
Guest:Yeah, we got a show, The Billy Club, which he wrote.
Guest:They said, just stay with us, Vanessa.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:They offered you the deal.
Guest:They offered me the deal.
Guest:They said, we'll give you a hundred grand.
Marc:Right.
Right.
Guest:And we're taking you off the market.
Guest:I had a meeting at NBC.
Guest:They said, look at this Drew Carey show.
Guest:Here's the pilot.
Guest:We'll write you a sixth lead and give you 260 grand.
Guest:Just please, we want you to be with us.
Guest:And Carsey Warner's like, I'm going to give you a third lead and we love you.
Guest:And I'd never like, this is someone who didn't know love from, like I didn't.
Marc:You didn't have any representation?
Guest:I had Tony Camacho.
Marc:No agent.
Guest:I had no agent.
Guest:Tony Camacho.
Guest:And Tony Camacho wasn't sure who to talk to.
Guest:And I felt like Lenny and George of Mice and Men, I swear to God.
Guest:And I didn't know what was happening.
Guest:And I just thought, just hold it together.
Guest:And I turned down the Drew Carey show.
Guest:I remember seeing and thinking Kathy was funny, the one with all the makeup.
Guest:Drew, I thought, he reminded me of Clark Kent.
Guest:But the Billy Club was a cop show.
Guest:I knew I wanted to be a cop, and then that show never happened.
Guest:and then everyone in new york was a little bit jealous of me there's some well-known comedians that were like oh she does that performance art whatever she does or she's fucking the owner you know whatever nasty things you're doing characters and yeah you're dating lucian and you got this deal for a hundred i wasn't quite dating him but everybody knew he liked i remember that there was stuff going on well i remember the reaction it was more about like
Guest:you know you don't even doing it right you didn't pay your dues yeah you you know how does she get that two years in right who is she doesn't even work at the real clubs right right right and then lucian wanted to be out with us i'm like lucian i have everything to prove there's not one com i will say we're together when i'm passed in every single club and it's on my terms you won't say you're in love with me
Marc:This is after you started dating?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But so what happens to the deal?
Marc:So you come back with your 100 grand.
Guest:Come back.
Guest:No, I give them back.
Guest:I said, just take me off of this.
Guest:Here, you can have like 40 or 60.
Guest:Gave it back.
Marc:What do you mean you gave it back?
Guest:I just gave them back their money.
Guest:Why?
Guest:They wouldn't let me audition for anything.
Guest:I was just sitting there.
Guest:Pilot after pilot after pilot.
Marc:Oh, they had a hold on you?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:For a year?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I said, get me out of this deal.
Guest:And that's when I auditioned for Suddenly Susan.
Guest:It was back-to-back with Janine Garofalo.
Guest:They were like, you're not quite Janine.
Guest:You're not quite Kathy Griffin.
Guest:You're kind of in between.
Guest:And they got stuff, and I went from being...
Guest:You know, hot, hot, hot, it's ice cold.
Guest:And that's when Lucian said, well, you're going to have to make yourself undeniably funny now.
Guest:I said, but I am funny.
Guest:He goes, no, no, you're going to be funny.
Guest:And that was, I said, but surely I'll get another chance.
Guest:He goes, you might not, but he said,
Guest:You will always be able to do this till the day you die.
Guest:Stand up.
Guest:Stand up.
Guest:Like what nursing goes, provided you don't get Alzheimer's or lose your mind or urinate all over yourself, you will always have a skill.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just had such a way of, I said, thank you, Lucian.
Guest:You think I might not, maybe I want to teach art or something.
Yeah.
Marc:So you come back.
Marc:You're beaten up.
Marc:The comedy community is judgmental.
Guest:And they're all friendly.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:Now they're like Vanessa.
Guest:We've got our own back.
Guest:Nice beginning failure.
Guest:Piece of fucking shit.
Guest:Now you're going to be funny.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And you were.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You got funny.
Marc:And you started dating Lucien.
Guest:Started dating Lucien.
Marc:You got passed at the cellar and the improv and everything.
Guest:Got passed at the cellar and I was the one, was the few.
Marc:And you started living with him?
Guest:Started living with him.
Guest:And he already had scleroderma.
Marc:I just remember, yeah, I can't remember.
Marc:I thought it was lupus that he had.
Guest:No, he had horrible, horrible scleroderma.
Guest:What is that exactly?
Guest:Hardening of the skin.
Guest:Scleroderma is like Greek, and what happens is your skin overproduces collagen.
Marc:How did he lose his fingers?
Guest:He couldn't get circulation because the blood got cut.
Guest:This was like scleroderma is everything gets so tight here.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:And he said, he described the pain.
Guest:He said, if you play baseball, he goes, my fingers are so delicate that...
Guest:that if I was playing softball and a softball was going to hit me in the crotch as a man, I would let it hit me in the crotch before I would try and grab it.
Marc:Because it would knock his fingers off?
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:No, it would just hurt too much.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:And I used to always try to find gloves for him, started cooking for him, but I was now... I hadn't been in AA for years.
Guest:I had no desire to drink.
Guest:He didn't even think I had a drinking problem.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He thought I had a lot of other problems.
Guest:And I remember that I started to take antidepressants, which I knew nothing about.
Guest:And I started to go up and up, because then he'd howl like a wild animal at night.
Guest:This is when there was a secret life dilution that no one knew.
Guest:The sickness.
Guest:The sickness and the fragileness of him, which he kept hidden.
Guest:And I kept it hidden for him.
Guest:But he would howl like a wild animal.
Guest:and i i said you've got to get some help yeah and um we researched the fentanyl patch which you didn't have addiction issues and i did i had no issues with that and i noticed that i watched a tape and i was i was no longer myself like it was a it was a
Marc:You were consumed by his sickness.
Guest:I was consumed by his sickness, but I lost my soul.
Guest:I was watching myself do a set, so I'm like, yeah, I want to do the Comedy Central Presents, and I watched one of my sets, and I'm like, there's no soul.
Guest:My soul's gone.
Guest:This medication is...
Guest:Oh, the antidepressants.
Guest:But I wasn't crying.
Guest:I'd bandage him up.
Guest:He'd howl.
Guest:I'd go, okay, Lucian.
Guest:I wasn't affected by music, sunsets.
Guest:Nothing mattered.
Marc:And you thought it was the medication?
Guest:I knew it was the medication, but I didn't realize that it was now taking my personality.
Guest:So we were now starting to have marital problems.
Yeah.
Guest:When did you get married?
Guest:We got married.
Guest:Well, he didn't want to get married.
Guest:He'd already been married twice.
Guest:And Michelle, his old wife, and I used to work in the office together.
Guest:We got married 14 months before he died.
Marc:So you're having marital problems?
Guest:Marital problems.
Guest:And I tried to get pregnant.
Guest:I had a miscarriage.
Guest:And then I had the miscarriage.
Guest:And I was like the beginning of how many cruel jokes is God going to play?
Guest:How many times do I have to fake it till you make it?
Guest:Put your best foot forward.
Guest:Keep a stiff upper lip.
Guest:And I just started to get angry at God.
Guest:I'm willing to work.
Guest:Everything that mattered is just take from me.
Guest:And I remember they had a tour of the Middle East, and I remember saying, I have to do something life-affirming now.
Guest:And I'd lost the baby, I had the miscarriage, like I had it in my hand, like it looked like a heart, like it was just, and Lucien was, I'm sorry, honey.
Guest:You know, it's not meant to be.
Guest:Of course, I would have loved to have been a father, but with this debilitating disease, it might have been too much.
Guest:And I went to the Middle East,
Guest:On a comedy tour.
Guest:On a comedy tour.
Guest:And then we were newly married and we were starting to have problems.
Marc:How was the Middle East?
Guest:It was one of the happiest, one of the most happiest times I'd ever had in my life performing for these guys.
Guest:And I knew some of them wouldn't come back.
Guest:Oh, was it a USO?
Guest:It was one of the first tourists that went out with him.
Guest:And I was there for a month.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And we were newly married, and I was trying to get a hold of him to tell him I loved him.
Guest:And he would be, ah, that's so sweet, honey.
Guest:I'm two for one in golf.
Guest:I'm doing very well.
Guest:Like his golf game was more important than me loving him.
Guest:He couldn't ever get out of that detachment.
Guest:And when I came, and this is where we differed, and this is where I learned about men and women.
Guest:When I came home, I wanted to surprise him.
Guest:I knew how hard it was for him to drive.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he was going to pick me up.
Guest:And I wanted him to, like, see me, throw me on the floor, make wild, passionate love.
Guest:And he was like, oh, you're home.
Guest:Ah.
Guest:Good.
Guest:I wasn't expecting this.
Guest:I was like, I was gone for... And I remember... You surprised him, you mean?
Guest:I surprised him, hoping he'd be like, oh, Vanessa, yes.
Guest:My wife, I love you.
Guest:How was it?
Guest:And he was like, oh, I was right in the middle of putting up some paintings of yours.
Guest:And...
Guest:oh you just surprised me you know I don't like surprise I'm like and that was our disconnect and I remember we had a huge fight and I just slammed the door and broke shattered all this glass yeah and I was waiting for him to just go you just immature child yeah and he sat me down and he said
Guest:Vanessa, there's a difference between a demand and a request.
Guest:And if you could just accept me for being who I am, I might surprise you by doing some of the things you might like.
Guest:And you did everything to be the perfect wife for me.
Guest:Did you ever ask yourself if I was the perfect man for you?
Guest:Never did.
Guest:I was so busy wanting to be the perfect wife for him.
Guest:And then as he was getting sicker and sicker, you know, our love changed.
Guest:He was the one that protected me.
Guest:I was now the one protecting him.
Guest:And that was when, you know,
Guest:That was when I ended up going off on the deep end with drink.
Guest:I didn't know what an alcoholic I was.
Guest:I had no idea.
Marc:After he died or during that?
Guest:After he died.
Marc:So, you know, you were there till the end, you know, next to him.
Marc:And you were in the room when he passed?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I couldn't.
Guest:We were having marital problems.
Guest:So...
Guest:i wanted the last six months um he got told to put his papers in order and i was i wanted to move back with him we only separated for a few months because i said can you we get couples counseling he goes you knew i was going to die when you married me you knew that and i said but i'm on medication he goes well that's not my problem i didn't tell you to medicate yourself i'm like
Guest:but it's really i said this is like lois w and bill w goes but we're not and i'm not and just vanessa things get tough and you just run away just go run run run and i i just wanted him to get a little therapy that's all i wanted was some marital counseling so he could understand that this was killing me yeah and he would he and then my therapist said
Guest:He's on the tail end, Vanessa.
Guest:He's getting ready to die.
Guest:You're everything to live.
Guest:You guys are not.
Guest:So I called up his friends, and I said, listen, make him food, help him drive, be there.
Guest:I can't do that, and do not tell him I told you to do anything.
Guest:You didn't hear these phone calls.
Guest:I didn't want him to have his dignity.
Guest:I didn't want him to know that I was doing anything behind his back.
Guest:So they were making him food.
Guest:Certain people were sucking up to him, and he knew it.
Guest:He goes, you know, if they're nice to me now, I just pass them.
Guest:It's kind of sad.
Guest:I used to pass people because they were funny.
Guest:Now you make me soup and...
Guest:I'll give you a Tuesday night.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he was starting to get like... It's like the giant was beginning... Yeah.
Guest:It's like the old dog was beginning to... Break down.
Guest:Break down.
Guest:And he's getting... He's getting humble.
Guest:Vulnerability to it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It made...
Guest:me just get so protective and so you came back i can't no no this was what killed me i said lucian i really think i should come back we don't have to have sex yeah i you know that's all right and we really couldn't by now right um i said i'll sleep on the couch yeah sleep with you i don't i really don't care you need some and he goes
Guest:I've never been so happy.
Guest:I'm in pain.
Guest:But comedians visit me.
Guest:They bring me food.
Guest:They talk to me.
Guest:I hold court here.
Guest:I said, if you come back, all that will be taken away.
Guest:And I thought, I know what it feels like to shine.
Guest:And he had his moment.
Guest:He let so many other people shine.
Guest:And I was like, okay.
Guest:So, I was like, that's... And you had gotten that stuff going.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so then I knew I was at the Borgata.
Guest:And I'm now seeing him like, I'm helping him do the schedule.
Guest:I'm like, he's like, kind of, you could do the schedule yourself.
Guest:And I'm like, I knew that if I stopped waking him up, he would have no reason to live.
Guest:So my instinct was just keep him alive.
Guest:So I called the Borgata.
Guest:I met the Borgata.
Guest:I'm like, Lucien, I'm on my way home.
Guest:And he's like, I'm so in love with my wife.
Guest:this is what i'm using yeah couldn't you remember to uh i picked up some diet snapple for like this was not him like the days are numbered they knew it and i was with tom carter i'm like we've got to get i've got to get home and monday he was going to do the schedule and see the auditioners and i remember he was like throwing up like like
Guest:yogurt and he'd gotten now he's about 130 pounds skinny and they they brought the auditions they had a camera rigged up in his so um i said lucian you want to you want to see the auditioners he's like no just stop hassling me vanessa just stop it just let me sleep
Guest:I was like, now this is the third time I've gotten yelled at by somebody I loved right before they die.
Guest:And I said, all right.
Guest:And that Tuesday when we had to go do the schedule, he always would be like,
Guest:I knew something was off, so I said he loves old movies.
Guest:Let me leave the old movies on.
Guest:Let me leave the lights on just so when he wakes up he won't feel alone because something's off here.
Guest:And then Tuesday he was in his chair.
Guest:His legs were open.
Guest:He was wearing like a burgundy bathrobe and like this, but his legs were always closed.
Guest:And I was like, Lucian, I'm here to do the schedule.
Guest:You really do go into denial when someone dies.
Guest:I'm like, let's do the schedule.
Guest:Lucian, wake up, wake up.
Guest:And I called Lenny Marcus.
Guest:And I said, Lenny, he's not responding.
Guest:You got to come over here.
Guest:And Lenny was...
Guest:Lenny was, he's gone.
Guest:He's gone.
Guest:I said, please, you can't leave me here.
Marc:He came over?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then there was comedians calling and then they immediately wanted to do the schedule who was ever running the comic strip.
Guest:And I'll never forget this one comedian.
Guest:He's like, I was wondering if I could switch spots.
Guest:I'm like, it's a little hard right now because Lucian just died.
Guest:And he's like, oh, fuck.
Guest:I'll call later.
Guest:Calls two hours later.
Guest:I'm like, this is so fucking comic.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Hey, man, I'm sorry, but can you switch a spot with me?
Yeah.
Marc:So that was horrible.
Guest:That was pretty bad.
Guest:I just started... I thought I had grief drinking.
Guest:And when he died, he was taking... I remember like I'd already... Like I hadn't really drunk in years.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:No, I'd never... All those years... It's like I started drinking when he died at 44.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And...
Guest:I remember giving him a Percocet and thinking, okay, that's for your pain.
Guest:This is for emotional pain.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:You were doing that?
Guest:I was already doing that.
Guest:And I remember Lisa Ann Walter was with me one day.
Guest:She took Lucian to dinner.
Guest:She's like...
Guest:three fucking hours to eat with that guy I'm like yeah she's like wow because he would eat everything so like everything and the joys he got was being able to eat so I learned how to cook food really well he loved wine sauce he wished I drank and I'll never forget saying I don't know what the big deal is wine it tastes disgusting and I remember like getting ready to make the sauce and he was like oh fuck shit you know just in the pain and I couldn't
Guest:And I just... I remember going like that.
Marc:Taking the bottle.
Guest:Taking a big glass and drank it down.
Guest:And...
Guest:I'm like, it was as if everything became like the yellow brick road.
Guest:All of a sudden, everything stopped hurting.
Guest:And I had this huge smile on my face.
Guest:And I was like, here's your dinner, Lucien.
Guest:And I had a glass.
Guest:And I was like, I finally.
Guest:Yeah, I'm drinking.
Guest:There was not happiness.
Guest:No, you're scared.
Guest:Like, you're drinking.
Marc:I'm like, yeah.
Guest:And his look was...
Guest:uh terrified terrified and i said i don't know what i'm gonna do without you and he goes i don't know what you're gonna do without me either and i didn't know that that was i didn't know that one glass of wine yeah was gonna be two and a half bottles a day yeah and that's where that's where you ended up
Guest:I ended up, I didn't know that you couldn't mix pills with booze.
Guest:And I was at Broadway to do this hip-hop thing where I usually pull my pants down and do a hip-hop version of the Beatles rap.
Guest:And I usually pull my pants down and show my ass.
And
Guest:I'd taken the Valium, the antidepressants, the alcohol.
Guest:I go up on stage and the words are like, I'm looking with the words or like, I can't get the words out, but I know.
Guest:And I'm like,
Guest:I'm like, this is really wrong in the audience I'm seeing going like this.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Oh, no.
Marc:The question's changing, and now they're terrified.
Guest:Like, and the mop top, and my dress, I pulled down my entire underwear, skirt, like, completely exposed, and dust and chafing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:gets me off stage and There was this guy Paulie and Paulie said get this girl a cab and You can hear she's nothing but a drunk.
Guest:She's a loser.
Guest:She's nothing but a fucking drunk and Paulie said This girl has more heart and talent in her finger than any you fucks who said you were nothing but a drunk I
Guest:These comedians, no recollection, I was so... The next thing I knew, I was spread on my floor with the keys and no recollection I even got home.
Guest:And then I thought that no one would know what a problem I might have had.
Guest:So I called Chris Mazzilli and I said, you know, I think I've been taking a little too much pain.
Guest:I think I'm allergic to some of these allergy medications.
Guest:Like, really?
Guest:What did Mazzilli say?
Guest:He goes, well, it's good, you know, just, you know, try and, yeah, be worried about, you know, what was wrong.
Guest:You know, I was, clearly I was mixing the, so I got off of all the pills.
Guest:So he was good.
Guest:He was worried about you.
Guest:Al Martin gave me another chance.
Guest:Everyone gave me another chance.
Marc:So how long were you all fucked up?
Guest:I was fucked, that's when it started to cost me.
Guest:I was fucked up probably for that year, and then I started trying.
Guest:to get sober and I couldn't stop.
Guest:Where were you living?
Guest:I was living on 28th Street and 8th.
Guest:I moved out of Lucian's place.
Guest:I couldn't live there.
Guest:Did he leave you anything?
Guest:Yeah, he left me.
Guest:He told this to Corey.
Guest:He didn't tell me.
Guest:He goes, Vanessa gave me the happiest years of my entire life in spite of this debilitating disease.
Guest:And Corey was crying.
Guest:And I was like, Corey, why didn't he ever tell me that?
Guest:She goes, I don't know, but he told me, and I wish I knew what it felt like to be loved like that, Vanessa.
Guest:Someone loved you like that.
Guest:I said, I wish.
Marc:You knew, right?
Guest:Yeah, I'll just tell her the last moment by somebody else.
Guest:That'll fuck her up and make her a little bit funnier.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Parents always think they're doing you a favor, making you tougher.
Guest:Right, sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It's hard to understand the dynamics that we seek out.
Guest:I used to laugh about your mom, the anorexic.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, she's still at it.
Marc:Oh, God.
Guest:I remember hearing you talk so honestly and just thinking, wow.
Guest:It's like there was so much heart in what you said.
Guest:I remember one time I was watching you.
Guest:I don't even think you remember this.
Guest:I just really...
Guest:i loved you i love the fact that you weren't you weren't full you were full of energy but full of energy and self-deprecating you'd always sit on a stool and you had like some remind me a little bit of john lennon you know that kind of thing and i'll never forget i was sitting right here and i was getting ready to watch you and you went vanessa holling said now that's intimidating
Guest:And I remember thinking, I said, you, me?
Guest:How would I ever intimidate you?
Guest:And I said, I'm here for you because you're brilliant.
Guest:And you're like, all right.
Guest:I just never forget that.
Marc:Well, you're very intense, you know.
Marc:You're very intense.
Guest:Unlike you.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Well, that's why I connected.
Guest:We were going to be talking cats.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, I really did.
Guest:It's all right.
Marc:But did you...
Marc:Well, how long did it take you to get it together?
Marc:How far did you fall?
Guest:I just, I'll never forget.
Guest:I was on stage.
Guest:And now I was drinking a little bit.
Guest:Now I was drinking in the morning.
Guest:You?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like wine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was with a pothead.
Guest:So he'd get high.
Guest:And this was, I couldn't even, like, I was undateable.
Guest:I'd be talking.
Guest:I'd be out on a date.
Guest:Start talking about Lucian.
Guest:And I'd just start crying.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so.
Guest:Drinking just began to escalate, but I started to drink very well.
Guest:I started to not check my texts.
Guest:Do not write things on Facebook because you think you're poetic.
Guest:Do not drunk text boyfriends.
Marc:You had a list of rules?
Guest:I had a list of rules and post-its, and I would always have my cats, me and the cats.
Marc:How many cats did you have then?
Guest:Two.
Guest:We had 20 and 21, two brothers.
Guest:Kept them around.
Marc:And so, how'd you hit bottom?
Marc:What happened?
Guest:It was almost like the cat.
Guest:I'll never forget.
Guest:Like I vowed never to be like, I was always the sad sap.
Guest:I was either very flirtatious or just start crying.
Guest:And I'll never forget.
Guest:I came in and my cat would either be in my drawer keeping me company or be on the table, would be on the chair.
Guest:And I drunk too much and I just went to go shoo the cat.
Guest:I was always so gentle with him.
Guest:And I remember the cat just, the little leg,
Guest:Like the little leg, just it was, cat was fine, but the little leg like just went like that.
Guest:And that was my mom, I'm like, no, no.
Guest:It's one thing that I self-destruct, but I'm not taking a cat with me.
Guest:Oh, you heard a twig?
Guest:I thought I heard a twig, I didn't, but it was enough.
Guest:I just grabbed it to me and I started sobbing, sobbing, and I started going to AA.
Guest:And that didn't work either.
Guest:And now I was getting scared.
Guest:Then I was getting time and losing time and getting time.
Guest:Like, wait a second.
Marc:Was anyone helping you?
Marc:Any of the guys?
Marc:Nobody.
Guest:No one.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I didn't.
Guest:I just thought you go to AA and you don't want to drink.
Guest:No.
Guest:Then I had to take interviews.
Guest:And I'll never forget.
Guest:I would drink like this if I was drinking.
Guest:You would not know it.
Guest:I learned how to take the mouth spray, smile, keep a distance.
Guest:You learn all these little secret rules.
Guest:But I wasn't fooling myself.
Guest:I remember I had all these women that weren't drinking.
Guest:And I knew I had to drink.
Guest:I put out a beautiful lunch for them.
Guest:And I went into the bathroom and I filled up all my wine in a hairspray bottle.
Guest:and I undid the hairspray bottle, and I'm looking at myself in the mirror, drinking the hairspray bottle.
Guest:I'm like, you might.
Guest:I think you've got a problem.
Guest:And then my psychiatrist, he tried the camp rule, tried this antidepressant, he tried this thing.
Guest:And I'll never, and I just thought, there's one drug left, Antabuse, where you can die if you drink on it.
Guest:And I said, you've got to put me on Antabuse.
Guest:And he goes, you'll die.
Guest:And I said, I'm dying now.
Guest:And I said, it was 9 in the morning.
Guest:I said, do you think I had anything to drink?
Guest:And he was a substance specialist.
Guest:He's like, no.
Guest:I said, I've already had half a bottle of white wine.
Guest:And I remember you wrote the script.
Guest:And he goes, now, I want you to wear a bracelet that I want it to jingle.
Guest:So when you think that you can drink, you'll hear the jingling.
Guest:That you might die.
Guest:And it saved my life.
Guest:And I'll never forget, like, day four or five, looking out the window and thinking, you can eat two cakes.
Guest:You can fuck somebody.
Guest:You can tell someone to fuck off.
Guest:You can just take your clothes off.
Guest:You cannot drink.
Guest:And then I was like, thank you.
Guest:Thank you, God.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:And then I ended up going to a rehab in Australia.
Guest:And this was like the Harry Potter of rehabs.
Guest:This was like, I'm an alcoholic, I'm a drug addict, I'm a manic depressive, I'm a compulsive cleaner.
Guest:I'm like, God, why couldn't I be a compulsive cleaner?
Guest:Everything we fucking need, not destroy my career.
Marc:How long were you there?
Guest:I was there a month.
Guest:I saved my life.
Guest:And I was very, I didn't believe in God.
Guest:When I came back, there was no, I remember praying to Bill W. I remember having the drink.
Guest:I remember being drunk one night and saying, well, Lucian, if you didn't think I was a drunk when you knew me, I'm a fucking drunk now.
Guest:Think I might have a problem or not.
Guest:Think I just have some emotional problems.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:You showed him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Good, I'll show you.
Guest:Let me drink.
Guest:Yes, I know we do that.
Guest:They told me in rehab, they said, you might not be able to be a comedian again if you put yourself at risk.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that I couldn't.
Guest:Now, I was now...
Guest:I had almost no money left, and this was the turning point for me.
Guest:Bruce Smirnoff was working at Royal Caribbean.
Guest:He said, you know, I book ships.
Guest:I book the biggest cruise ships in the world.
Guest:You're kind of edgy, but we'll give you a shot.
Guest:And I was down to nothing.
Guest:I remember putting in four applications to Starbucks.
Guest:Thinking, well, Louis C.K.
Guest:might walk in there and you're going to have to make him a latte.
Guest:And then you can go back to hating God.
Guest:Because now this is going to be cruel joke.
Marc:I'm not sure Louis could help you now.
Guest:No.
Marc:I wouldn't have a problem in doing anything inappropriate.
Guest:I'd be like, Louie, do what you got to do.
Guest:I'm so over this shit.
Guest:Just put me on your show.
Guest:Just don't get my hair.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you're applying at Starbucks and Smirnoff, what, calls you?
Guest:Yeah, I'm applying at Starbucks.
Guest:I'm like, okay, I guess this is, you know, this is a new thing in my life.
Guest:I'll just be making coffees and famous people walk in there and I'll make one hell of a latte and
Marc:That's going to be my break.
Guest:That'll be my break.
Marc:My second break.
Guest:And this is, God obviously wants me as humble as they fucking come.
Guest:This is, thank you, God.
Guest:I really, I will just go become a nun.
Guest:And then Bruce said, so I put all the applications in.
Guest:Bruce said, can you come down to Florida?
Guest:They want to audition you.
Guest:I'm like, Bruce, I can't even pay my rent right now.
Guest:It's like, oh.
Guest:Well, they don't usually accept comics, especially, you know, you're a woman.
Guest:They don't know you.
Guest:And I'm like, I just got to get a Starbucks.
Guest:And then he said, this is strange.
Guest:This was a day later now.
Guest:This was literally a day later.
Guest:He goes, you know what?
Guest:12 people saw your drinking set and it's edgy.
Guest:You got the ship.
Guest:One word of advice.
Guest:Don't fuck up.
Marc:And that was three and a half years ago.
Marc:The drinking set.
Marc:That was about what?
Guest:That was about drinking.
Guest:You say my friends tried so many interventions with me.
Guest:I just used to leave the plastic folding chairs.
Guest:Set them in a semicircle in my apartment.
Guest:They came over.
Marc:So you've been doing chips for a few years?
Guest:A few years.
Guest:Then I started back with the acting.
Guest:Then I just finished doing the vagina monologues.
Marc:Great.
Guest:I started to go back with the acting.
Guest:I started to do yoga.
Guest:I gave up smoking.
Guest:I gave up sugar weed and flour.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Basically, well,
Guest:I'd kind of given up sex but that was just you can't meet anyone in New York they're all gay and I love gay guys but they're all you've been to New York a lot of pretty women a lot of gay guys really you can't meet anybody in New York on the entire island anywhere I try alright where are you living 28th and 8th
Marc:Well, I'm very happy for you.
Marc:It was a very great conversation.
Marc:I'm all choked up.
Guest:It's so amazing.
Guest:I listened to all your podcasts.
Guest:I was like, God, I hope I'm good.
Guest:He's so good.
Marc:What are you talking about?
Guest:You made my week.
Guest:You made my month.
Marc:Good.
Marc:Well, I'm so happy you're okay.
Guest:You're wonderful.
Marc:You are.
Marc:That was a great story.
Marc:I really enjoyed talking to you.
Guest:I really enjoyed being here.
Thank you.
Marc:That was some story.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:Great to talk to her.
Marc:I'm very happy we did that.
Marc:I feel like we needed it.
Marc:I feel like it was, I don't know, there's just some people you're like, how's she doing?
Marc:And that's how she's doing, and she's doing okay, and it was great to see her.
Marc:I'll play a little guitar.
Marc:It's just the same guitar.
Marc:Boomer lives!
Marc:It's all self-contained, so you'll never have to do any installing or upgrading, but if you do have a question, Squarespace's award-winning 24-7 customer... CUNT!
Marc:But if you do have a question, Squarespace... Oh, you fucking ballsucker.
Marc:But if you do have a question, Squarespace's award-winning 24-7 customer... Oh, no, no.