Episode 920 - Rachel Brosnahan
Guest:All right, let's do this.
Guest:How are you?
Guest:What the fuckers?
Guest:What the fuck buddies?
Guest:What the fucking ears?
Guest:What the fuck nicks?
Guest:What the fuck a ruse?
Marc:How's it going?
Marc:How are you?
Marc:I'm Mark.
Marc:I managed the place.
Marc:Yeah, I managed this place.
Marc:If you have complaints, let me know.
Marc:Try to keep it on the level.
Marc:I don't know what the fuck, man.
Marc:Some days I wake up and, you know, like yesterday I felt great, but now I've been doing the sugar detox.
Marc:And I don't know, I don't feel great today.
Marc:Drank a lot of tea.
Marc:You know, I'm off the coffee, but man, you drink enough Assam tea, you get to this level of intensity, of clarity.
Marc:There's a different type of...
Marc:It's sort of a hyperspace of aggro.
Marc:You got to really work at it, though.
Marc:You got to drink a lot of it.
Marc:God knows that just because I got off coffee doesn't mean I'm not going to figure out a way to get what I need out of everything else.
Marc:That's just the nature of it.
Marc:That's the nature of the compulsion.
Marc:Did I mention?
Marc:I don't think I did.
Marc:I mentioned yet that my guest today is Rachel Brosnahan, who is the actress on the show The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, which I like.
Marc:I like.
Marc:I didn't think I would, but I do.
Marc:So she'll be here.
Marc:That was nice.
Marc:She's pleasant.
Marc:Hey, you know what I'm starting to realize, people, is that during this age of horror and excitement, we're probably going to see just who everybody really is.
Marc:It's a weird thing.
Marc:It's a weird phenomenon that trickles down from the monster at the top of the pyramid is that now everybody's sort of shameless.
Marc:It's sort of like, hey man, maybe I can shoot from the hip.
Marc:Hey man, maybe I can take some risks.
Marc:Hey man, maybe I can say some shit that'll upset some people.
Marc:Hey man, maybe I can do some bad business, some morally dubious business behavior and just personal behavior.
Marc:Maybe I can get away with that.
Marc:But you know what we're seeing is that it seems like only the president remains unchecked.
Marc:Everybody else has got to take the hit.
Marc:But we're going to see, you know, if we make it through this with any semblance of a reasonable system and decent people persevering, I wonder if a lot of these people are going to pay the price.
Marc:Look, we've all got a price to pay, I know.
Marc:But there's a type of shamelessness that's going on that's just sort of...
Marc:Mind blowing.
Marc:And it is the shamelessness that trickles down from the top.
Marc:Like, it's interesting to me.
Marc:A lot of people are like, can you believe Roseanne?
Marc:Of course.
Marc:Of course I can.
Guest:Roseanne, Donald Trump, Kanye West, same sickness.
Guest:You know, if there's a Hall of Fame for narcissists.
Guest:They're at the top of their game.
Marc:Like this is if you've got the platform, if you really think about narcissism, I don't know if I've said this before.
Marc:Everyone's a little narcissistic.
Marc:I am.
Marc:But there are a few people that are actually pathological narcissists, narcissistic personality disorder.
Marc:It's the one thing to be a little narcissistic or even to be utterly self-centered.
Marc:It's a completely other ball of wax to actually have narcissistic personality disorder because that is almost unhelpful.
Marc:In the world of narcissism, who if somebody thinks it's all about them, it's all about them.
Marc:They see no boundaries.
Marc:There is no real distance between them and their extension of their brain into the world at large, whatever the world that is that they live in, that the ultimate success for narcissists is to make it all about them.
Guest:And Trump has done that on a global level.
Marc:He is the ultimate success as a narcissistic person, as someone with the personality disorder.
Marc:He won.
Marc:Now, there are these other people with platforms that are equally as narcissistic and have different talents and are not without talent or creativity.
Marc:But if their platform is big enough, there's a jockeying going on
Marc:for who can maintain the most of the public's attention, the world's attention, the culture's attention at any given moment.
Marc:And Roseanne and Kanye are right there.
Marc:There's a triad right now culturally.
Marc:There's the president who is the narcissist in charge.
Marc:And then there's these sort of satellite narcissists who also have very large platforms.
Marc:But the symptoms are all the same.
Marc:When people ask me about Roseanne, it's like, what did you, of course, what do you expect?
Guest:I mean,
Guest:Look at her Twitter feed for the last seven years.
Guest:Listen to her interview on here.
Guest:What?
Guest:Like it's jarring.
Guest:It's surprising.
Marc:She said a horrible thing and now she's paying the price for it.
Marc:People pay the price these days for doing horrible things.
Marc:That is everybody but the president.
Marc:So I'm just going to read these to you and and see like maybe it'll resonate.
Marc:But I think it was interesting because I found it poking around doing my research on narcissism, although I didn't call my father.
Marc:The seven deadly sins of narcissism.
Marc:These two guys, Hotchkiss and Masterson, I guess, identify what they call the seven deadly sins of narcissism.
Marc:And it's pervasive because it's a little bit contagious because everybody wants to.
Marc:Everybody wants to make it about them.
Marc:And now everybody has the resources to sort of at least think that it's sort of about them.
Marc:You put it out there in the world.
Marc:Number one, shamelessness.
Marc:Shame is the feeling that lurks beneath all unhealthy narcissism and the inability to process shame in healthy ways.
Marc:Two, magical thinking.
Marc:Narcissists see themselves as perfect using distortion and illusion known as magical thinking.
Marc:You can also just maybe put lying in there.
Marc:They also use projection to dump shame onto others.
Marc:Three, arrogance.
Marc:A narcissist who is feeling deflated may reinflate their sense of self-importance by diminishing, debasing, or degrading somebody else.
Marc:Now, everybody's done that to a certain degree, but we're now seeing it on a global level.
Marc:Four, envy.
Marc:A narcissist may secure a sense of superiority in the face of another person's ability by using contempt to minimize the other person's
Marc:or their achievements.
Marc:Five, entitlement.
Marc:Narcissists hold unreasonable expectations of particularly favorable treatment and automatic compliance because they consider themselves special.
Marc:Failure to comply is considered an attack on their superiority and the perpetrator is considered an awkward or difficult person.
Marc:Defiance of their will is a narcissistic injury that can trigger narcissistic rage.
Marc:Huh.
Marc:I got a little of this.
Marc:Six, exploitation can take many forms, but always involves the exploitation of others without regard for their feelings or interests.
Marc:Often the other person is in a subservient position where resistance would be difficult or even impossible.
Marc:Sometimes the subservience is not so much real as assumed.
Marc:Seven bad boundaries.
Marc:Narcissists do not recognize that they have boundaries and that others are separate and are not extensions of themselves.
Marc:Others either exist to meet their needs or may as well not exist at all.
Marc:Those who provide narcissistic supply to the narcissist are treated as if they are part of the narcissist and are expected to live up to those expectations.
Marc:In the mind of a narcissist, there is no boundary between self and other.
Marc:So if you fight back, then it's either you fighting back at yourself or you got to get rid of that.
Marc:But anyways, the reason I just look at this is because this is the prominent disposition in cultural discourse in a broad sense right now.
Marc:So if narcissists see no difference between themselves and their extensions of themselves or people that comply with them, that there's just an extension of them, that there's got to be all these willing components, right?
Marc:There's a bunch of willing components.
Marc:That's the idea of the narcissistic supply.
Marc:So the base is Trump's narcissistic supply.
Marc:I guess that's one of the reasons I have such a weird kind of defensive boundary reaction, you know, to like, I don't see any difference between the disposition of someone like Roseanne, someone like Trump, someone like Kanye, the narcissist, you know, in your life.
Marc:That's what's guiding the world.
Marc:And with that as a leadership, all of a sudden everybody feels like, you know, they fuck it.
Marc:It's all about me too.
Marc:I can do whatever the fuck I want.
Marc:There will be reprisals though.
Marc:I believe local, state, personal, cultural levels.
Marc:I don't think it seems very difficult to reign the narcissist in chief in.
Marc:Apparently no one made any rules for that.
Marc:Just norms.
Marc:No rules.
Marc:Norms.
Marc:He's breaking all the norms.
Marc:It's unprecedented, i.e.
Marc:fucked up and scary.
Marc:These norms might, maybe someone might want to make note of the norms that are being broken and maybe try to make a little handbook, a rule book of things that they have to do so we don't all become, you know, just appendages of this narcissistic shit show.
Marc:Anyways.
Marc:That's just sort of what I'm thinking about a little, you know.
Marc:All right, Rachel Brosnahan.
Marc:You're about to hear me talk to her, and the show is The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, which honestly, as I said before, I didn't think I would like because I'm a comic, and there's something about being a comic when they make shows about comedy, or stand-up in particular, no matter what era it is.
Marc:You're like, are they going to get it right?
Marc:Am I going to buy it?
Marc:It says, how can this, how can she, how can he, how can they act like a stand-up?
Marc:I've never seen anyone do stand-up who's not a stand-up and make it seem like it's stand-up.
Marc:But there was something about this show that I grew to really like.
Marc:I liked the period.
Marc:I liked having a strong female voice in a time where they didn't exist like...
Marc:the character mrs. Maisel there were definitely strong female voices around in stand-up but they were very specific but there was something about you know backloading a real strong sort of coincidentally accidentally feminist voice into this era that I thought was a very amazing device and I'll talk to Rachel about that but yeah the show is the marvelous mrs. Maisel and this is me and Rachel
Marc:so what do you what are you out doing today what are you doing just this he looks like you're a little dressed up yeah no i'm sort of doing doing the rounds i know i feel so like strange with like so much makeup on for a podcast no yeah yeah i'm sorry there's not a camera i will take a selfie after it'll be a great it'll be it'll be the best selfie i've ever taken great selfie
Guest:no i'm sort of doing that thing where we have like a you run around do a press day yeah well it's press and you know we have one week essentially to to do everything before we go under into shooting our second season you haven't shot it yet no what are you waiting for i know crazy i know what it takes time i know i just i just shot glow but i mean but are you done now yeah but we've been done a while
Guest:You have?
Marc:Yeah, like a month or two.
Marc:I got to go do ADR today, so we're that done.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:I'm living under a rock.
Marc:No, I mean, how would you know?
Marc:But it seems like you would have been done in post already.
Guest:No, we just started.
Guest:I mean, we just shot part of our first two episodes in Paris, which was cool.
Marc:Oh, right.
Marc:I ran into Shalhoub the other day.
Guest:Oh, did you?
Guest:Where did you run into him?
Yeah.
Marc:I did a round table with him.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Amazing.
Guest:How was it?
Marc:It was good.
Marc:It was good.
Marc:You know, it was an odd group.
Marc:It was me and Tony and Ray Romano and Tracy Morgan and Louie Anderson.
Marc:That sounds amazing.
Marc:He told me he was talking about just having gotten back from Paris.
Guest:Yeah, we just got back.
Marc:What would you do there?
Marc:What was the angle?
Guest:The family visit?
Guest:I can't give too much away.
Guest:No, I know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But we are there with the fam for part of the first two episodes.
Guest:And so we were there for three and a half weeks.
Marc:No kidding.
Guest:I think I'm still jet lagged.
Guest:Although Tony went to Lebanon after that.
Guest:So he's probably all kinds of fucked up.
Marc:Oh, did you hear that story?
Marc:No.
Marc:Maybe I should have him on.
Marc:No, he went back to sort of search his...
Marc:father's history really and he found the not only the village but the house he did that that his family came from yeah cool yeah that's pretty cool right wow i haven't seen him since we got back here have you been to lebanon you got a lebanon story no i've no nope not yet now i need to get one and come back but like where like where are you from
Guest:I'm from Highland Park, Illinois, which is a suburb like 30 minutes north of Chicago.
Marc:Not a Jew though.
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Marc:You play a Jew, you're not a Jew, and you grew up in a Jewish area.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Marc:So did that help you familiarize yourself with...
Guest:I think so.
Guest:You know, I mean, I grew up, my dad tells me this story that he didn't tell me until very recently, but I apparently when I was five years old came home really, really distraught from kindergarten and was like, Daddy, what is my Hebrew name?
Guest:everybody has one you know that's really upset about it yeah um but i think i did i spent a lot of time immersed in and welcomed by jewish culture and community yeah uh and they don't they don't know it but but i borrowed a few pieces from some of my friends parents yeah for midge yeah uh yeah yeah like what
Guest:But I can't say otherwise she's going to figure it out.
Marc:Well, you can't say the name.
Marc:Well, you don't have to say the name of the person.
Guest:No, some of the obsession with the kid's looks, you know, like her giant forehead and just sort of some of the speech patterns, I think.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, I'm sure, probably.
Guest:Worrowed from one of my friend's mothers in particular.
Marc:Yeah, I didn't grow up around Chicago Jews, but I grew up around New Jersey Jews.
Marc:So, you know.
Guest:How different?
Guest:Michael Zegan's from New Jersey.
Guest:Which one is he?
Guest:He plays Joel.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:There's a difference.
Marc:There's slight differences in accent and culture, but not much.
Marc:I mean, I can't always put my finger on what it is that makes Jews so specific and annoying.
Marc:But I say that as a Jew to a non-Jew.
Marc:But there is a, like you were able to sort of focus in on some of those idiosyncrasies.
Marc:They're real.
Guest:We also have brilliant writing.
Guest:You know, Amy grew up with a comedian dad.
Marc:Who is her dad?
Marc:Is it, it's not Alan Sherman, is it?
Guest:Don Sherman, I think.
Marc:Don Sherman.
Guest:I hope I'm getting that right.
Guest:Yeah, he was a comedian.
Guest:He was a stand-up.
Guest:She says he does a lot of, he did a lot of cruise ships.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Made a living doing cruise ships.
Marc:A ship comic.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Oh, so she.
Guest:And Tony recently came across, although I haven't heard them yet, some of his stand-up.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:And said it was great.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, Amy's got to have some of her old man's stand-up.
Guest:I mean.
Marc:Yeah, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:So, all right, so you're growing up there.
Marc:How do you say, where's your last name from?
Marc:Brosnahan?
Guest:Brosnahan.
Guest:Wow, yeah.
Marc:Nobody ever gets it right.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What do they say?
Guest:Oh, a whole lot of things.
Guest:I'll give you a list.
Guest:Broshnananhan.
Marc:Come on.
Guest:Brosnahan.
Marc:Brosnahan.
Guest:Brosnahan.
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Guest:And then there's just the paws.
Guest:There's Rachel...
Guest:And then I know it's me.
Marc:And then you say your last name.
Marc:And I'm like, it's me.
Marc:Well, those are all the Gaelic, the proper pronunciations.
Marc:What is it?
Marc:Is it Irish?
Guest:It's Irish.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It looks like classic old Irish.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This is crazy.
Guest:But a couple of years ago, my extended family on my dad's side, who were Irish, we all went out to Ireland and went to Brosna, which is this teeny tiny town.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm not actually exactly sure where it is, but teeny tiny town, and it was wild.
Guest:There was this graveyard, and every single person in it was Brosnan or Brosnahan.
Guest:We all hail from the town of Brosna.
Marc:Oh, so we're Pierce Brosnan?
Guest:A couple glasses of Guinness on the ledge, you know.
Marc:Of the grave stones?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Is that Pierce Brosnan?
Marc:Is it Pierce Brosnan?
Marc:What is his name?
Marc:I think so.
Guest:Brosnan.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I assume we hail from the same tiny part of... From Brosna.
Marc:From Brosna.
Marc:Brosna.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:Where did you spend time in Ireland?
Marc:Because I love Ireland and I've only been there a little bit.
Marc:Did you really do the whole country kind of deal?
Guest:Not really.
Guest:I mean, we stayed.
Guest:It's been quite a few years now.
Guest:We went to, I know we went to Blarney.
Guest:We went to, oh, what's that?
Guest:Dingle.
Guest:We went to Dingle.
Guest:We sort of drove around a little bit.
Marc:Like the coast or something?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Dublin.
Marc:Did you go to Dublin?
Guest:We flew into Dublin.
Marc:Right.
Guest:But we only spent the night there.
Marc:And you got a car, drove around with the family?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Turns out my mother's the only person in our family who can drive stick shift.
Guest:So she drove us the whole way.
Marc:Stick shift on the wrong side of the road.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:She's from England.
Marc:Oh, so it wasn't a big deal.
Guest:It wasn't too confusing for her.
Marc:I found it.
Marc:The idea of it sounds terrifying to me.
Marc:Horrifying.
Marc:To try to remember that shit.
Guest:I would never.
Guest:I would kill us all.
Marc:Oh, you'd have to drive so slow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm not a great driver anyway.
Guest:I mean, I live in New York.
Marc:Right.
Marc:We don't drive anymore.
Guest:I've forgotten.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, you don't live out here, huh?
Marc:No.
Marc:Not yet.
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:I don't think.
Guest:I lived here for about eight months after college.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:And I threw in the towel pretty quick.
Marc:What?
Guest:I couldn't do it.
Marc:Couldn't take it?
Guest:Not for me.
Marc:No.
Marc:But you were a child.
Marc:I was.
Marc:Now you're a little older.
Guest:I like seasons.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I lived in New York forever.
Guest:I mean, I lost time out here.
Guest:I feel like I blinked and eight months went by.
Marc:Yeah, no, there's no way to feel time going by.
Marc:It's confusing.
Marc:It's very odd.
Guest:Is it nice or just confusing?
Oh.
Marc:No, I don't know.
Marc:It's something about the climate.
Marc:It is annoying.
Marc:And you do feel kind of at sea here.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:It's an isolating place if you don't have an active social life where you aren't propelled that way.
Marc:Whereas in New York, you can just...
Marc:go down the street or meet your friend at the place and take the train.
Marc:You can make spontaneous plans.
Marc:Here, it's like there's no way you can make spontaneous plans with someone in Santa Monica.
Guest:Everyone's so flaky.
Guest:I mean, I just feel like they're not, I don't know.
Marc:People are flaky?
Guest:Here, yeah.
Marc:Well, it's like it's a big deal if you're going to drive somewhere.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:If you're going to drive somewhere.
Marc:It better be worth it.
Marc:Yeah, it could take three hours out of your day.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Do you live in Brooklyn?
Marc:I live up in Harlem.
Marc:Okay, so you can meet anywhere in the city and be there within 25 minutes.
Guest:Totally.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yep.
Marc:Except Brooklyn.
Guest:I mean, yeah, a little higher up in Harlem, so it takes a little bit longer sometimes.
Guest:And the trains are all fucked up now.
Marc:They're always all fucked up.
Guest:I mean, especially now.
Marc:How are they going to fix them?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I mean, isn't that part of Cynthia Nixon's new...
Guest:campaign.
Marc:Well, I hope so.
Marc:I hope so, too.
Marc:I'm not in touch with New York politics.
Marc:I'm too overwhelmed with national politics, but I do know they seem to have put that shit off for a while.
Marc:It's all piecemeal repairs.
Guest:And it's not happening fast enough.
Guest:I mean, on the weekend, everything's crawling.
Guest:The express trains are stopping between every single local station.
Guest:It's a mess right now.
Marc:Well, I mean, I used to do a bit about that, about how in New York, there's always a guy in a hole.
Marc:At all hours of the night, there's a guy standing over a hole with a light.
Marc:there's like two in the morning it's like what are they doing that sums up the new york experience can't be good whatever they're doing if it's if it's two in the morning and they're doing it now yeah well that's when else are they going to do it that's the only time that people aren't completely relying on the train it's true i i don't like i hope they get it fixed but it's like out here it's like traffic it's like it's never going to get better when where are they where are they going to build a new highway when they anyway
Guest:Well, that's what I talked to an Uber driver once about that.
Guest:He was saying that, I don't know if this is true, but that initially that was the hope for Uber was that it would reduce traffic because more people would take them together.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Or would take groups, you know, group Ubers.
Guest:In an Uber, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, that seems a little idealistic.
Marc:It does.
Marc:I find that anybody out here, if you don't have a culture of public transport, that shifting people over to it, even to Uber, even to a train, it's sort of like, nah, this is like a car culture.
Marc:It was invented out here.
Marc:Anyway, so how many brothers and sisters do you have?
Guest:I have one brother and one sister.
Marc:What kind of Irish family is that?
Guest:I know, not a very good one.
Guest:Failed Irish family.
Marc:Are you both your parents of that ilk?
Marc:Irish?
Marc:Catholic-y, Irish-y?
Guest:No, my mom's British.
Guest:Totally British.
Guest:Yeah, and my dad is not Irish himself.
Guest:I think his grandparents were Irish.
Marc:Oh, so it's just kind of, yeah.
Guest:Passed down too far.
Marc:Oh, so you didn't grow up with the Catholic thing?
Guest:No.
Marc:That's what usually creates the multitudes.
Guest:No, I think they were... My dad grew up Irish Catholic.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And without saying too much about it, very few of his siblings are still Catholic.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:They turned?
Guest:Yeah, they turned to the dark side.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:They're all heathens now.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:Well, I don't know what's darker.
Marc:I mean, you know, as the news comes in, you know, it turns out it's not the greatest church in the world.
Marc:I know, I know.
Guest:Well, yeah, my dad's one of six.
Marc:Oh, there you go.
Guest:He has five sisters, yeah.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:And you know them all?
Guest:I do.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what's your sibling situation?
Marc:You got what?
Guest:They're little.
Marc:Younger than you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're younger than me.
Guest:My sister is 19.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my brother is 24.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What are they doing?
Guest:My brother's working in banking out in Denver right now.
Marc:Banking in Denver?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:And my sister is in college, and she plays soccer.
Marc:Soccer.
Marc:Soccer and banking.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you're a little TV star.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So, all right.
Marc:So, you're like, when do you start doing the song and dance routines?
Guest:Song and dance?
Marc:No, I mean, yeah.
Marc:When does it happen?
Marc:When do you start doing acting?
Guest:My stomach just, oh, I meant literal song and dance.
Guest:My stomach just dropped out of the bottom.
Marc:I'm so horrified with the idea of singing.
Marc:Like I was going to ask you to do it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's like, come on, sing.
Guest:Singing makes me want to die.
Guest:When did I start doing it?
Marc:Yeah, like in high school?
Guest:Yeah, I think I always liked, I always liked performing.
Marc:Right.
Guest:You know, I liked all the little school plays.
Marc:You did those?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Spring sings.
Guest:Those are my jam.
Marc:Spring sings.
Marc:What are those?
Marc:I've never heard that before in my life.
Guest:You sing in the spring.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:With a bunch of people?
Guest:With a bunch of other kids.
Marc:On stage?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you do like to sing.
Marc:They're pretty terrible.
Marc:Why'd you get freaked out?
Guest:I mean, I like to sing.
Guest:I'm a terrible singer.
Guest:I don't want to sing in front of anyone else.
Marc:But you didn't do any musicals?
Guest:I was a part of a group.
Marc:Okay, okay.
Guest:I did do musicals.
Guest:There was a period of my life where I thought I could sing, and then I went to college, and they made you sing in front of all your classmates, and now I'm scarred for life.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was too scary?
Guest:It was absolutely horrifying.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:I feel that way too, but I've done it a few times lately.
Marc:Have you?
Marc:On what?
Marc:When I play guitar with people, sometimes I'll sing some songs.
Marc:And I have a slight lisp anyways, but when I sing, it seems to be accentuated.
Marc:And I notice it.
Marc:I don't know if other people notice it.
Guest:I wouldn't have noticed until you told me.
Guest:Although I've been told I have one too.
Marc:You do?
Marc:A little bit.
Marc:Yeah, I'm full of speech impediments.
Marc:It's terrible.
Marc:I have bad L's.
Marc:Do you?
Marc:I can barely say that one.
Guest:But you just said it.
Guest:Sounds fine.
Marc:I say them in my throat, like L, so there's no real la.
Marc:It's just like, it doesn't matter.
Guest:You spent a lot of time thinking about this.
Marc:Like now I am.
Marc:Yes, I have spent a lot of time thinking about it.
Guest:I never noticed.
Marc:No, people don't notice because as long as you're communicating what you want to communicate.
Marc:But if you were a speech therapist, you'd be like, I can help you.
Guest:Yeah, but that's, for better or for worse.
Marc:Right, sure, yeah.
Marc:So, okay, so you're doing spring sings?
Guest:I did some spring sings.
Marc:Yeah, and then the musicals in high school, one or two?
Guest:I did a couple, yeah.
Guest:I was in Cats.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:I was.
Marc:In a high school production of Cats?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That must have been great.
Guest:It was pretty fantastic.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I think we spent all of rehearsals for Cats very stoned.
Guest:It was extremely enjoyable.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, Cats was great.
Guest:I was in the Scarlet Pimpernel.
Guest:We really reached out.
Marc:You did big shows.
Marc:Yeah, we did.
Marc:Was it a big high school?
Marc:Was it a big, rich high school?
Guest:It was a pretty big high school with a pretty heavy focus on the arts.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You walked out.
Marc:Was that just a public high school?
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, an amazing public high school.
Marc:Are your parents in the arts?
Marc:Are they into arts?
Marc:What do they do?
Guest:No, they're not in the arts, but they enjoy them.
Guest:I think more so now that I'm in them.
Marc:I had to.
Marc:Were they nervous when you did it at first?
Guest:They were so nervous.
Marc:Well, what's your dad do?
Guest:My dad was in children's book publishing.
Marc:He published children's books?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Any big ones?
Guest:No, they did.
Guest:They had a big partnership, I think, with Disney.
Guest:They published a lot of Disney sound books, you know, the books with the buttons and it speaks to you in all the different languages.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Was it his publishing company or he just worked for him?
Guest:He worked for him.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:Yeah, but he was the vice president of the international division, so he traveled a lot.
Marc:Of children's publishing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It was cool.
Marc:I mean, how's the guy end up there?
Marc:Did he have a pension for that or he was just in the publishing racket?
Guest:He used to work for Golden Books.
Marc:Are they a children's book company?
Guest:They did children's books.
Guest:Do you remember those little books with the golden spine?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he worked for them.
Marc:That's where he started.
Guest:I guess this was the natural transition.
Marc:The progression.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Moving up.
Guest:It was cool.
Guest:We had so many books growing up.
Marc:Children's books.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Plenty.
Guest:I read a ton.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I mean, after a certain age, I would think that would, you don't need to.
Guest:I mean, I no longer read the sound books.
Guest:No, not anymore.
Marc:In high school.
Marc:He doesn't send you a big bunch of sound books.
Guest:I mean, that would be fun.
Marc:Well, he's waiting.
Marc:Maybe someday you'll have a kid and he'll be able to stock up.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:He'll pull out the boxes and boxes and boxes.
Marc:That will happen.
Guest:It will.
Marc:And your mom did what she do?
Guest:She raised us.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Big job.
Marc:Yeah, it is a big job.
Guest:Three of us.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Three little rassels.
Marc:She just barely got done.
Guest:She did.
Guest:I know.
Yeah.
Marc:So this high school, so art-focused, and you know you want to act?
Guest:I did.
Guest:I think I didn't always know that you could do acting as a career.
Guest:You didn't?
Guest:No.
Guest:I mean, I watched movies, and I always wanted to do theater.
Guest:I guess that's all I saw it as was theater was how you became an actor.
Marc:Oh, you just would watch movies, but...
Guest:I guess I didn't make that association.
Marc:At some point you do read an article where someone makes $20 million for doing a movie and you're like, wow, I guess you can do that.
Guest:I think that came later.
Guest:People weren't talking about that so much then.
Marc:I guess not.
Marc:I don't think so, yeah.
Marc:But you knew you wanted to do stage?
Guest:I did, yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then what was the next step?
Marc:You graduated high school.
Marc:Were you a good student?
Guest:I was all right.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Just all right?
Guest:I was okay.
Guest:I mean, I think I was smart and good at testing, and I liked learning, but I didn't always like what I was learning about.
Guest:And so I was kind of bored and didn't always try as hard as I should have.
Marc:Right, or lock in.
Guest:Yeah, like if I was really passionate about something, I loved it.
Guest:I would learn everything I could about it.
Marc:What were those things?
Guest:I loved to read and I loved- Like fiction?
Guest:Fiction, yeah, mostly fiction.
Guest:I feel like when I was younger, I started reading a lot of fantasy books.
Guest:I loved Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter.
Marc:Oh yeah, you did that?
Marc:Yeah, all of that.
Guest:I think that's kind of what made me want to be an actor.
Marc:Oh yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was it like the fantasy realm?
Guest:Like imagining worlds that I couldn't imagine.
Marc:And now you're playing this fantasy character of a female stand-up comic in the 50s.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Who actually had a point of view and a voice.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:How lucky am I?
Marc:It's a complete fantasy character.
Guest:A little bit, huh?
Marc:It is, yeah.
Marc:But no, but I think that's what's great about this show.
Marc:So when you graduate, what's the next step for you?
Marc:You tell your parents you want to pursue acting?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You do, right after high school.
Guest:I think during high school, I kind of said, I want to be an actor.
Guest:They said, you have to go to college.
Guest:And I started doing research about schools with good acting programs.
Guest:I went to NYU.
Marc:Oh, you did?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But did they do that thing where it's sort of like you have to get an education and act?
Marc:Like, did you try to do that?
Guest:Yeah, well, that's one of the things that was nice about NYU.
Guest:We had to take a lot of other classes.
Marc:Tish school?
Guest:Tish.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It was a BFA, but it was an academic heavy BFA.
Guest:I was a psych minor, which I loved.
Guest:And I feel like even with the theater classes that we were taking,
Guest:I learned so much about other things.
Guest:The theater studies classes that we took there, I took a class about Native American theater studies.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, about avant-garde theater and the history of it and LGBTQ theater studies.
Guest:It was really cool.
Marc:Native American theater studies.
Marc:What was that like?
Marc:What was some of the stuff?
Marc:Do you remember any of it?
Guest:Not a whole lot.
Guest:Other than that, I loved it.
Guest:And we went to see some theater in New York.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:About the kinds of storytelling.
Guest:We had a wonderful Native American teacher who was really passionate about the arts within the community.
Marc:That's pretty wild.
Guest:Yeah, it was really cool.
Marc:Yeah, so like mythology and stuff?
Guest:It's not mythology, it was mostly about how stories were used culturally and the specific sense of humor with which stories were told.
Guest:We created pieces.
Guest:I feel like college was all kind of a blur, but I really loved that class and specifically loved that teacher.
Marc:Yeah, and did you do a lot of experimental theater?
Guest:I didn't do a ton of it, but I loved seeing it.
Guest:I took an avant-garde theater studies class where we went once a week to see a show.
Marc:We went to see a show in a small black box theater.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:All these different theaters all over the city, mostly on the Lower East Side.
Marc:Did you see any of those, what was that guy's name, Foreman's play?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Was it Richard Foreman?
Marc:Richard Foreman.
Marc:Yeah, a lot of things going on there.
Guest:Yeah, wacky.
Marc:A lot of action.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:A lot of things going on.
Guest:But really moving.
Guest:I mean, I think it was a Richard Foreman show at The Public that we saw.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Idiot Savant, I want to say.
Guest:I think that was Richard Foreman.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was really moving and scary.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I remember seeing one, it reminded me of Marx Brothers, because there was so much going on.
Guest:What was it?
Guest:Do you remember?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It seemed like when I was living in New York, he was doing a play every week.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And it was on St.
Marc:Mark's or somewhere.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Marc:Right?
Marc:There was just always posters up, Richard Foreman.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:How is it possible he's got another play up already?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:His brain works a million miles away.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know what he looks like or anything about that guy.
Marc:I don't know if he's still alive.
Guest:Other than that, he made a play a week.
Marc:Yeah, and then I finally went to see one, and it was pretty overwhelming and great.
Guest:I felt the same.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you go to the Worcester Group and stuff?
Guest:We didn't go to the Worcester Group, but the professor that we had, I believe, had done some work with them.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, and then, okay, so tell me what you, you took psychology class too?
Guest:I did, yeah.
Guest:A bunch of psychology classes.
Marc:You like that stuff?
Guest:I did, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was it because it was easy or because?
Guest:No, I felt like it went hand in hand with theater.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It was an exploration of the mind and of the history of psychology and illness and how we think about it too.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What was your first big experience on stage in New York?
Guest:You know, I didn't do a full production in college.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Just bits?
Guest:Yeah, mostly scenes from shows.
Marc:Really, that wasn't part of the curriculum to do a full show?
Guest:I think at certain studios it was.
Guest:NYU has a whole bunch of different studios.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I was sort of trying to get my feet on the ground acting professionally while I was in school.
Marc:Right.
Marc:What was the studio you were in?
Guest:I was in Strasburg.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah, we cried a lot.
Marc:You cried a lot in Strasburg.
Marc:What were the other ones?
Marc:I just talked to somebody about this.
Guest:You did who?
Marc:Kristen Bell.
Guest:She went to NYU?
Marc:Yeah, for a couple years.
Guest:Oh, cool.
Marc:Like, I don't think she finished out because she got cast in a show.
Guest:Oh.
Marc:But, like, she was telling me about all the different schools, and I didn't realize that, that you could kind of go to all these different things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, they place you, but there was, gosh, I feel like it's been a million years, but it actually hasn't.
Marc:It hasn't been that long.
Guest:A lot's happened since then.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:It was, so I was in Strasburg.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There was the Stella Adler Studio.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Meisner.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:All within the school?
Guest:Yeah, under the NYU umbrella, under the Tisch umbrella.
Marc:But you didn't have to go down to Meisner, right?
Marc:You could do it in the NYU building?
Guest:No, I think it was.
Guest:We were at the Strasburg Studio, which is also its own independent school.
Marc:Okay, I see, I see.
Marc:So they kind of subcontracted.
Marc:We were all over the city.
Marc:Right.
Guest:But they had their own teachers.
Guest:They had separate NYU teachers.
Marc:Who were obviously adept at that particular method.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And some of them crossed over.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Meisner, Stella Adler.
Guest:Playwrights Horizons.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:Atlantic.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:The Mammoth trip.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Cap 21.
Marc:Stand there and do your line.
Marc:Find your mark and do your thing.
Guest:See, is that it?
Guest:I wouldn't know.
Guest:We never had any interaction with any other students.
Marc:Dude, just say the line clearly.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You clearly have worked with Mamet.
Marc:Well, I just interviewed him and I always had a problem with his particular way of doing things.
Marc:And I talked to him about it.
Guest:I was going to say, did you tell him that?
Guest:What did he say?
Marc:Well, no, I mean, it really comes down to what I've found with actors.
Marc:It's like whatever, you know, method you're going to do or however you're going to apply them or the many that you do.
Marc:It's like there is an element of either got it or you don't.
Guest:Yeah, it just has to work, right?
Marc:Well, yeah, it has to work, but also you have to show up with a certain amount of talent for doing it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, you know, I mean, you can get better at whatever it is, but what makes somebody great and what makes, I don't know, it's not going to be repetition.
Guest:I don't have the answers.
Marc:Yeah, no, but okay, so you're doing Meisner, not Meisner, you did Meisner, not Meisner.
Marc:No, I did Strasburg, yeah.
Marc:So, and what was that process?
Marc:Like, how does that work?
Guest:It was crazy.
Guest:I feel like somebody once said to me, and this is kind of true, that they wanted to turn you inside out all the way and then turn you right side out and shake you out and hopefully your skin goes back on the right side of your body.
Guest:Yeah, it was intense.
Guest:It was really intense.
Marc:So that was the sort of obliterating yourself, the sense of self, like you just become emotional mush all the time.
Guest:We were pretty mushy, yeah.
Guest:You know, a couple quarter life crises, I feel, during that time.
Guest:But it was nice to be in New York doing that.
Guest:It felt like we were less in that college bubble that sometimes happens.
Marc:We're really doing it.
Guest:We're really doing it.
Guest:We're crying every single day.
Marc:We're at the Strasburg Institute.
Marc:So you had a teacher that had a certain amount of gravitas and weight, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was he an old person?
Guest:I had a couple teachers every year.
Marc:In Strasburg?
Guest:Yeah, we had more than one acting teacher.
Guest:And a lot of, you know, we had dance and singing.
Guest:Like I said, traumatized still.
Marc:But that was in Strasburg, right?
Guest:It was.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:So the whole...
Marc:The whole umbrella of the education took place there.
Marc:So you did dancing and singing.
Guest:Just the performance part took place at Strasburg.
Guest:So we took dancing, we took singing, we took Tai Chi, which was an adventure.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, we took voice and speech, which is how I learned about my lisp, just like you.
Guest:And yeah, we took acting.
Guest:But I did, I had a couple older acting teachers.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, yeah, but like the crying thing is that that seems to happen during scene study.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:During those.
Marc:Yeah, we did a lot of notes at scene study.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:No, before that, we did a lot of sense memory training.
Marc:Oh, so that was real method stuff.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Does that work for you?
Guest:It does.
Guest:It does work for me.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But it doesn't work for everybody.
Guest:You know, it's like you got to find your own thing.
Guest:And I don't do it exactly like I learned it in school.
Guest:what you mean find something sad to cry about when you need to cry that basically yeah exactly pretty much that's pretty much it i'm just gonna leave it there yeah yeah no for for all different kinds of emotions that sandwich i get hesitant to talk about it because it's sad the minute you start talking about it you sound absolutely bad shit i don't know if that's true i think i think actors get self-conscious talking about craft because craft and process
Marc:Right.
Marc:Because, you know, what I found talking to actors is that some people are just sort of like, I'm not going to do that or not so much.
Marc:I'm not going to do that.
Marc:But they say like, well, I take a little from everything I've learned and whatever that it becomes a natural thing.
Marc:It's hard to identify, you know, what your craft and process is.
Marc:But there are things that you do.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Well, it's so individual.
Guest:I think that's why people, at least that's why I have a hard time talking about it sometimes because it's such a vulnerable thing.
Guest:Is it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I find acting so vulnerable in general.
Guest:I've said this many times now.
Guest:People ask a lot about the marvelous Mrs. Maisel and Midge and how confident she is.
Guest:And I've said many times that one of the hardest things about it has been
Guest:Has been finding that confidence while performing.
Guest:That's something I find really scary and challenging.
Guest:And I feel like talking about it too much makes it worse.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Confidence while performing within the character or while performing the character at all.
Marc:You mean like by doing for doing comedy or just just.
Guest:Just while performing.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Like the idea of performing feels like you're putting something out there that is sort of soft and squishy and leaving it open to judgment and so many people's opinions about it.
Guest:And you just hope that you're doing justice to brilliant material.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And also...
Guest:that it's fulfilling in some way.
Guest:But I find that whole thing really vulnerable.
Guest:So that's why I start talking about process and I'm like, I don't know, you touch some stuff sensorily and then you cry about it.
Guest:No, it's not just crying.
Guest:I feel like that was the joke, but it was a lot of different things.
Guest:Trying to reach the height of all different kinds of emotions and learning how to access them and manage them and manipulate them as you need to.
Marc:I've had one person on here admit to doing animal work.
Guest:Animal work.
Guest:You know, we did animal work in high school.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:I've never told anyone that.
Marc:That's your big secret?
Marc:Word is out.
Guest:We did animal work in high school.
Marc:Here comes the clickbait.
Marc:Oh, God.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's the title.
Guest:Rachel Brosnahan on animal work.
Marc:Animal work.
Yeah.
Marc:But, no, I mean, that's an interesting exercise.
Marc:It is interesting.
Marc:But I've not, like, who was it?
Marc:It was Paul Dano, I think.
Guest:Oh.
Marc:Who copped at doing a little animal work for some things.
Guest:I think it's useful sometimes.
Guest:I don't, you know, maybe I'll start doing more animal work.
Marc:No, I mean, I don't.
Marc:Whatever anyone gets there.
Marc:But I find that, like, for some people, I guess acting's sort of a job, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, it is a job, obviously.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:But then there's people that just want to make the most out of the nuance of getting to the part.
Marc:However deep anyone wants to get in their process, whatever the fuck that is, that might just be how they enjoy the work.
Guest:I was going to say, that's my favorite part.
Guest:Rehearsal is my favorite part.
Guest:That weird work that you hope that there's no fly on the wall witnessing in your apartment bathroom or something.
Guest:That is my favorite part.
Guest:And that's why it's hard to talk about, I think.
Guest:It's personal.
Guest:It's personal, but it's also hard to articulate what it is and why it's enjoyable when really so much of it feels like torture simultaneously, you know?
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:No, I get it.
Marc:But just having done some myself, I kind of try to... If I were to really think about... For me, it's like...
Marc:before a scene starts, you kind of like have to get into the present and have to see who you're talking to.
Marc:And like all that stuff.
Marc:But those are real practical things.
Marc:And how to get out of self-consciousness somehow.
Guest:I mean, I've truly spent so much time, and this is not part of any method that I learned, but probably some article I read on the internet have when I'm feeling like I'm having trouble
Guest:accessing that self-empowerment have definitely stood in the mirror in my corset and tights and all kinds of 1950s under armor with my hands on my hips and power pose like breathing into the mirror i got it i'm gonna do it yeah
Marc:But this was your big break because you won a Golden Globe, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you got the Critics' Choice Award as well.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That was big.
Marc:I was there.
Marc:I was there at both of those.
Guest:You were?
Guest:I didn't see it.
Marc:Not the Golden Globe.
Marc:I was at Critics' Choice and I was at the SAG Awards.
Guest:Oh, nice.
Guest:Yeah, we weren't at the Sags.
Guest:Congratulations, by the way.
Marc:Oh, thank you.
Marc:I got nominated.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:That's exciting.
Marc:Very exciting.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Your work is amazing.
Marc:Oh, that's very sweet of you.
Marc:I appreciate that.
Marc:It's really, really excellent.
Marc:I'm doing everything I can.
Guest:I love it.
Marc:So, I appreciate that.
Marc:But this was, you kind of kicked around in TV a long time.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Really, right?
Marc:So when did you graduate from Tisch?
Guest:In 2012.
Marc:And you did a movie right away.
Guest:I don't remember exactly what happened.
Marc:Really?
Guest:On the timeline of when I graduated.
Marc:Did you do Beautiful Creatures?
Marc:When was that?
Guest:That was right as I was graduating.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I finished a semester early.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think that was between when I finished and my actual graduation because I missed my college graduation to do that movie.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was it worth it?
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, graduation.
Marc:Who was in that movie?
Marc:Who were you working with?
Guest:It was Jeremy Irons, Emma Thompson, Viola Davis, Alden Ehrenreich.
Marc:How big was your part?
Marc:Did you have a good-sized part?
Guest:No, it was a pretty small part.
Guest:It was one of my earlier jobs, but it was amazing.
Guest:Who did you do scenes with?
Guest:So I worked with Emma a little bit and a lot of stuff alone.
Guest:I played like a crazy witch.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:Who killed people with my eyes.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was pretty funny.
Marc:See, like you don't seem like the kind of person that would kill people with your eyes.
Marc:So that's it.
Marc:They must have a lot of faith in you.
Guest:We've only spent like 30 minutes together.
Yeah.
Guest:There's still time.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:Maybe by the end, you will need to kill me with your eyes.
Marc:But so you primarily, you did a lot of work in television, really.
Guest:Yeah, I did a lot of guest star things.
Marc:Did you do any, I'm like, you didn't do any, did you do any of the procedurals when you were in New York?
Guest:I never did Law & Order, which now I feel like is a badge of honor.
Guest:There is still time.
Guest:There is still time.
Marc:I imagine it's never going to go off the air.
Marc:You can always go back to Law & Order.
Marc:Thanks.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You didn't do soaps?
Marc:Are you happy you didn't do a Law & Order?
Guest:No.
Guest:Are you kidding me?
Guest:I was dying to do Law & Order.
Guest:I think I auditioned for Law & Order about 1,200 times.
Marc:Really, when you're in New York.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I auditioned for all of the Law & Orders.
Guest:There were three of them on the air at once.
Marc:Right, because that's what you do when you're in New York.
Marc:You do Law & Order.
Guest:Yeah, and usually in New York, you do a Law & Order, you die, and then you come back as a totally different character on more than one Law & Order.
Marc:No one's paying attention.
Marc:I know.
Marc:You just spread it out a few months.
Guest:Really, I'm just offended that nobody...
Marc:Oh, now you're going to get a Law and Order and you won't be able to do it because it would be like in fourth position.
Guest:I can't.
Guest:I simply can't do Law and Order.
Marc:But what did you do?
Marc:I know you did House of Cards, but there's a few things before that.
Guest:Yeah, I did an episode of The Good Wife.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:I think my first job in New York, my first TV thing in New York, which was a blast.
Marc:Who did you do the scenes with?
Guest:Christine Bransky and Julianna Margulies and... Is that how you say her last name?
Marc:Yeah, I think so.
Guest:Yeah, okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Michael J. Fox.
Guest:It was his first episode or first of a couple episodes.
Marc:Oh, that's like big.
Guest:It was amazing.
Guest:You know, I've been... I think about it a lot now, but I've been so...
Guest:lucky mostly in small roles early on in single episode guest stars or in roles like that small role in Beautiful Creatures to have worked with older actors who have been around forever whose careers I'm completely in awe of who have been so kind to me and probably don't even remember but like little moments that completely changed my life.
Marc:It's wild.
Marc:Like what?
Marc:Like, you know, that you can remember.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I mean, I remember so many of them.
Guest:And truly, like, they probably don't remember this at all.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I remember my first day on Beautiful Creatures.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Emma Thompson.
Guest:In the film, I was playing her great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandmother in some flashbacks.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And she ran out of the hair and makeup trailer, gave me a huge hug, and said, we're so happy you're finally here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I about died.
Guest:But was also just like, then I felt so good coming on to a set that I hadn't been a part of necessarily.
Guest:They'd been shooting for weeks already.
Guest:And I was young and new and nervous as shit.
Guest:And that made me feel so much better.
Guest:And then I remember it still.
Guest:I'll never forget it.
Marc:It's like you're sort of welcome to the community.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And from somebody who's been a staple of the community for such a long time.
Guest:And he was so smart and articulate and talented.
Guest:And even working on The Good Wife.
Guest:I remember Michael J. Fox.
Guest:Like I said, I think it was my first job in New York.
Guest:I was shooting my coverage and he told me that I should look towards his outer eye so that I would open up further to the camera.
Guest:Tiny little thing, but it taught me something great.
Guest:Nice, a trick.
Guest:Yeah, a little trick of the trade from, again, someone who I've admired.
Guest:I mean, I quickly forgot, I think, but from someone who I admired for such a long time.
Guest:Michael Kelly on House of Cards was the same way.
Guest:Michael's, have you ever talked to Michael?
Marc:No.
Guest:You should.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet.
Guest:So insanely talented.
Guest:And Michael used to call my agent after we worked together and tell him that he loved working together.
Marc:Oh, that's nice.
Guest:And I was newly with this agency.
Guest:We shared an agency and it meant a lot.
Guest:And it, and I think helped, uh, solidify my standing.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:And, um, it's just, it's nice to, you know, when you start working with these cats who have been working in it forever and you show up on sets, like, I just know this.
Marc:So like, even when I was doing my own show, when you'd have these actors that you've known your whole life show up, but there's that weird moment where like, there they are.
Marc:And then you're like, no, he's just a guy.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And that's the best part.
Marc:Yeah, this guy doing a job.
Guest:And he's a nice guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It was, yeah.
Marc:So that must have been a big, the House of Cards thing, you were on a lot of those.
Guest:Yeah, I did quite a few.
Marc:And that got you the weird kind of like episodic training, I would imagine, to sort of like have to go to work and do it for over and over again, the character.
Guest:Well that one was interesting because it felt more like shooting a film.
Guest:And I think Fincher always described it as a 13 hour movie.
Marc:Oh, you were in that first season?
Marc:How many seasons, when were you in it?
Guest:I was in the first, I made appearances in the first three seasons.
Marc:So were those all Fincher?
Marc:Was that before he split?
Guest:Just the first.
Guest:He was involved, but I was the first.
Guest:I think he only directed the first two episodes.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:At least where I was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was something that was only supposed to be a much smaller thing.
Marc:Right.
Guest:An episode or two.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it turned into a couple seasons.
Guest:And it was a blast.
Yeah.
Marc:But don't you think like, you know, doing that kind of like episodic stuff is like, that's the real training, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And developing a character that I think hadn't already been developed.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That was such a gift.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That the character was developing before my eyes and I was learning new things about her every week and getting to stretch my muscles.
Guest:It was a type of role that I wasn't being seen for at all at that time.
Marc:How would you describe that?
Guest:Well, she was an ex-prostitute, or was still a prostitute in the first episode.
Guest:It was a little more mature than some of the things that I had been being seen for.
Guest:I was being seen for a lot of 16-year-olds, kind of asexual 16-year-olds.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because you could play young?
Marc:Yeah, I could play young.
Guest:And so that was new.
Guest:It was also a lot darker than anything I'd really tried over a long period of time.
Guest:And I feel like I really feel like I grew up with that character.
Guest:I learned something about being more grounded and present from playing that role.
Marc:Oh, that's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It was probably a little riskier.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it was scary.
Marc:Yeah, because that's not your life.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And then you've got to make this type of character credible.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And I was so nervous.
Guest:I felt like I struggled for a way in.
Guest:I was doing a lot of research and then realized that she's just a person.
Guest:She's a person who's struggling to find her identity.
Guest:And that was a...
Guest:at that time when you're, I was like 20, I feel like that was so much of my own experience through a completely different lens and it was amazing, it was an amazing time.
Marc:Yeah, and then that's when you really sort of like, you start to realize it's in the script
Marc:So you gotta show up for that thing.
Marc:You can go out and stay up all night or read about hookers all you want, but ultimately it's there.
Marc:That's the thing that I started to realize.
Marc:My show was a little jokier, but doing GLOW,
Marc:It's like this guy's on the page.
Marc:You can do whatever you want to get to him.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:But it's here, right?
Marc:It's there.
Guest:It has to live and breathe.
Marc:It's there on the page, though, right?
Marc:I've done improvisational shows, which are fine.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But I'd rather do the script.
Yeah.
Guest:I, me too.
Guest:I agree.
Marc:I can riff pretty good, but ultimately you're going to end up at yourself if you improvise.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Right.
Guest:That's what I've always found anyway.
Guest:I don't know if that's true for all improvisers.
Marc:Some guys are, you know, yeah, they can do it in character forever, but like, but you know, you can only think so deep as the character.
Guest:I also appreciate the collaboration.
Guest:I really love that on film sets and plays, everyone shows up and has one job, or sometimes multiple jobs.
Guest:But there's brilliant writers creating these worlds, and the characters, the costume designers, at least for me, I love costumes.
Guest:They change the way I see characters, and they change the way we all see characters.
Guest:They inform so much about who these people are, and hair and makeup, and set design.
Guest:It's amazing.
Marc:Well, when you're doing a period piece, it's a big deal.
Marc:Especially that period you're working in now.
Marc:Me too.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:Mine's a little easier to access.
Marc:You can still get the clothes from my period.
Guest:You can for us too.
Guest:I just learned about dead stock.
Marc:Do you know about dead stock?
Marc:What is dead stock?
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I hope I'm getting this right.
Guest:Otherwise, my costume judge is going to kill me.
Guest:But I think it's just clothes that were never worn, that still have tags on them, that have been held onto and preserved from the time.
Marc:Oh, in storage and from the year.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:At a...
Marc:Like a show business wardrobe warehouse kind of thing?
Guest:I'm not sure where they come from or where they're kept, but yeah.
Marc:Where is dead stock kept?
Guest:I did have a pair of shoes though on Maisel that were dead stock.
Guest:They were still in the package.
Guest:And I put them on and they were a pair of little ballerina flats.
Guest:And whatever was the sole of the shoe just crumbled.
Guest:I was like, I think this is lead.
Guest:I've got to take these off.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:See boys in his shoes.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:I don't know what it was, but it just fell apart completely.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:So what was Manhattan?
Marc:I don't know what it is.
Guest:Manhattan was a show about the Manhattan Project, about the building and the bomb in the 1940s.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:I didn't know that.
Guest:No, please.
Marc:Short-lived, but it was- But it looks like you did a lot of episodes.
Guest:Yeah, we made 20 suits.
Marc:And it was supposed to go on longer?
Guest:I mean, ideally all series go on longer.
Marc:What network was it?
Guest:WGN America.
Marc:And you work with Daniel Stern.
Guest:Yes, yeah.
Marc:That guy, I haven't seen him in a while.
Marc:Did you do a lot of scenes with him?
Guest:I did a few scenes with him.
Guest:He directed maybe two episodes.
Marc:How was that?
Guest:Amazing.
Guest:He's a great director.
Guest:He's really passionate about it.
Guest:He's done, I think, a fair amount of directing, but he was so passionate about it.
Guest:He gets actors.
Guest:He was so kind and excited about the material.
Guest:Great, great writers on that show, too.
Guest:Sam Shaw.
Marc:Did you learn a lot?
Guest:I did.
Guest:We also got to shoot in Santa Fe, which I've fallen in love with completely.
Marc:That's my home state.
Marc:I know that place.
Marc:Yeah, I grew up in Albuquerque.
Guest:A little bit different from Santa Fe.
Marc:Yeah, but it's an hour away, and I'm hip to it.
Marc:I was just up in Santa Fe.
Marc:You go further north, that's where it's really at.
Guest:Taos, right?
Marc:Not quite.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, Taos is all right, but up in Chimayo, where Georgia O'Keeffe's house is.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, Taos is pretty.
Marc:I haven't been up there in a long time.
Marc:I used to ski there when I was a kid.
Guest:I've only been to Taos once, but the drive up to Taos, I think I enjoyed more than Taos itself.
Guest:It's so beautiful.
Marc:Yeah, that's killer.
Marc:Did you go to Georgia O'Keeffe's house?
Marc:I didn't go to Georgia O'Keeffe's house.
Marc:Oh, you've got to go check that out.
Guest:I've been to the museum, which I love, in Santa Fe.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:You can go to her house.
Guest:Where is it?
Marc:It's in, is it in Chimayo?
Marc:No, it's Abiquiu.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Abiquiu.
Guest:I try to go once a year out that way.
Marc:Well, it's really worth it.
Marc:Like, the museum is great, but you just, you know, you drive up north.
Marc:It's about a half hour or so.
Marc:It's a little town.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But they have it preserved.
Amazing.
Marc:And you can go into the courtyard and one or two, you can go into her studio.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:And her view from her studio, that's sort of like, that's it.
Marc:That's New Mexico.
Marc:Yeah, you do.
Marc:You're funny, Albuquerque, that's a little different.
Marc:What happened to you in Albuquerque?
Guest:I didn't love Albuquerque so much.
Marc:What traumatized you?
Guest:I feel like maybe I was in a not great part of Albuquerque, but I feel like my only experience of Albuquerque was a lot of Motel 6s.
Marc:Oh, so yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, I guess Albuquerque is, you grow up somewhere, you mythologize it a bit, but it was probably different.
Guest:Did you love growing up there?
Marc:Well, yeah, it was New Mexico.
Marc:And it was the biggest city in New Mexico.
Marc:And, you know, it was a small town city.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But it feels like it's come upon hard times, a lot of it.
Marc:And that, you know, it kind of, it spread out and then kind of crumbled.
Marc:And I don't know really what's going on there anymore economically.
Guest:I don't know too much either.
Marc:I know they got that big studio there now.
Guest:Yeah, I know they were, I don't know exactly what was going on with it, but I know they were having a hard time.
Guest:There was some controversy about the tax break that was being offered out there.
Marc:Right, yeah, well, I think they had a governor there for a while that was like, you know, fuck show business.
Guest:Yeah, that it didn't add to the community or to the culture or to the economics of the state, but it was great.
Marc:Yeah, well, I think it's back.
Marc:I think people are shooting there again.
Guest:Is it back?
Marc:I think.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I know that Saul shoots there, that Bob shoots out there.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And I know they have that amazing facility out there.
Guest:Yeah, the big new studio.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know what the incentives are, though.
Marc:I can text my friend later and find out.
Guest:I'd love to know.
Guest:I mean, I loved shooting there.
Guest:Truly, I fell in love with the state.
Marc:Up in Santa Fe?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Up in Santa Fe.
Marc:Did you go to 10,000 Waves?
Guest:I, of course.
Marc:Yeah, I love 10,000 Waves.
Marc:Isn't that great?
Marc:It's so beautiful.
Marc:I go there once a year, so.
Guest:There's no cell phone service.
Guest:It's just a great view of town.
Marc:They added a restaurant, you know?
Guest:Yes, I've been.
Marc:Oh, you went?
Guest:Oh, did I?
Marc:Yeah, it's nice, right?
Marc:It's good.
Guest:They have the best cheeseburger I've ever had.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Maybe ever, truly.
Marc:Oh, man, I didn't get the cheeseburger.
Marc:I don't remember what I got.
Marc:But I remember when it didn't have a restaurant.
Marc:I remember that for years.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they have fewer bungalows, things.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And also it's like it's funny because the actual spa part of it is it's still like sort of a community place.
Marc:You can still kind of go there.
Guest:It's pretty simple, which I love.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I love, this is going to sound creepy and weird, but I really love communal women's baths.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It feels so...
Guest:It feels like something from another time.
Guest:And I don't know, there's something about being surrounded by so many women in a place where you are asked to and allowed to relax.
Guest:But that energy of all these women being together that way, I've always found really beautiful and inspiring.
Marc:It's a cultural thing too.
Marc:I don't think that it's specifically an American thing, but there's still communities that do that.
Marc:There's Korean baths and there's Russian baths.
Marc:Yeah, the bath culture, I guess.
Marc:We didn't really have that.
Guest:I don't think we have too much of that in the States, but it's nice.
Marc:You can go down to 10th Avenue Baths on Women's Day.
Guest:Wasn't there a dead body found in there?
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:I think there was a dead body found in one of those baths in New York a couple years ago.
Guest:And I've just, I've stayed away.
Marc:I don't know if it was, was it found or was it just, did someone die in the sauna?
Guest:No, I feel like it was found.
Guest:I might be slightly making this up, but I feel, maybe I exaggerated in a dream or something, but I feel like.
Marc:It sounds like someone died in a nap.
Guest:I feel like somebody was in a bath and they like stepped on a body and it was a big deal.
Marc:No, that wouldn't have happened down there.
Guest:Are you sure?
Marc:I don't know what room that would happen in.
Guest:Somewhere in New York, in one of the baths.
Marc:Oh, because that one down on, what's 10th Avenue, right?
Marc:The 10th Avenue baths, I think it's called.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Like the old one where Belushi used to go sweat out his drugs.
Marc:It was, well, I just remember they had like, it was a Russian bathhouse, but they had an Orthodox Jew day.
Marc:So the Chassids would come, and that was sort of a weird day.
Marc:Amazing.
Marc:Yeah, but they had all different days.
Marc:But there wasn't a pool that you couldn't see the bottom.
Marc:There was just a cold plunge and then this oven.
Guest:Maybe it was a different, oh.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, an oven of a sauna.
Marc:Like that was the real.
Marc:And you get a platza where the guy would come in with the leaves.
Guest:Really?
Marc:The soaked.
Guest:Does this still, it still exists?
Marc:A platza, yeah.
Marc:It's a Russian, where they take these two bundles of leaves that are bundled, and they soak them in hot water, and then they just beat the shit out of you.
Guest:I really wish that your audience could see the demonstration that I'm experiencing right now.
Marc:Oh, yeah, it's a little weird.
Marc:But they soak them, and then they beat you up with them, and they rub them around your back.
Guest:I can't think about anything except watching you do it.
Marc:Yeah, watching me do it, yeah.
Marc:And it's astringent.
Marc:There's some kind of medicinal quality to the actual leaves.
Guest:Interesting.
Guest:Have you had it done?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, of course.
Marc:Cool.
Marc:You go over and you just lay there and the guy, you know, you're never sure if the guy's a professional or he's just a guy who hangs around doing plots.
Guest:Probably just a guy.
Guest:I'd venture to say.
Marc:It's usually a big Russian dude.
Marc:You're like, who does these?
Marc:And then a guy just comes in with a bucket.
Marc:You're like, that's the guy, I guess.
Marc:It's him.
Marc:Yeah, it's a plaza man.
Guest:Plots me.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:The weird thing about that place is that it looks like a rundown old place.
Marc:That's cool, though.
Marc:Yeah, and they've got these weird bunk beds, and they give you a shitty little robe.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Why the bunk beds?
Marc:To nap, Abby.
Marc:The idea for a spa, I think, is still- To nap.
Marc:No, to take a day, right?
Marc:To take a few hours.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So you get your robe, you get your plastic slippers, you get your locker, and they've got a little cafe that has Russian food.
Marc:Not fancy, but they'll make you a blintz and whatever, a juice.
Guest:That sounds great.
Marc:Yeah, you go down the bath for a little while.
Marc:You sweat.
Marc:You go in the hot room.
Marc:You go in the cold plunge.
Marc:You go in the dry sauna, wet sauna.
Marc:Then maybe you need a nap.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then you go eat some more.
Marc:Whatever.
Marc:You're going to spend the day at the spa.
Marc:It's not like 10,000 waves.
Marc:There's no view.
Marc:You can go to the roof, I think.
Guest:I mean, you can relax as relaxed as relaxed.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that's good.
Marc:We just had a 20-minute conversation about baths.
Guest:Sorry, everyone.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So I guess the thing I realized about watching you and also about working with Alison Brie, too, is that you guys are very experienced actresses in putting together.
Marc:There's something similar about the characters, about Alison's and yours, I think.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But there also is something similar about the intensity of the performance.
Marc:And I start to think that maybe having done 22 episodes of Manhattan and all those, like, you know, having, you know, been in the, like, because it is a specifically, you know, these, like, they don't feel like movie parts to me.
Marc:They feel like a character you get to know over time.
Marc:And I think it's a different type of performance.
Marc:Do you?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I guess you wouldn't approach it differently, but... Yeah, it doesn't feel like I'm approaching it differently, but it does feel like a luxury to be able to sit with the character for such a long time and to be able to learn so many new things about her over the course of so many episodes.
Marc:To have a life as her.
Guest:And to evolve as her.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:That feels like a huge gift.
Marc:Yeah, in actual, you know...
Marc:In real time in a certain degree.
Marc:Like you're evolving because it's like you're about to do a second season.
Marc:You don't have any fucking idea.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What's going to happen.
Marc:So, you know, you have this character.
Marc:You've dragged her through whatever you've dragged her through first season.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And the evolution is going to happen.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And when you're shooting, it's going to happen in real time almost.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I suppose that it's different from a movie in that you learn about the character's history or whatever events complete.
Marc:And the whole script's there, give or take.
Guest:Yeah, and preceded those exact moments that are happening in the film.
Guest:But in TV, we've done it.
Guest:We did the history.
Guest:There's still history.
Guest:But the longer you sit with a character, you've lived the history.
Marc:It feels real for you.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:That's what I mean.
Marc:You wear it differently in a way.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So when you, like, what was the process of, because I'll be honest with you, as a comic and as somebody who knows a bit about that era, you know, like, and I don't think I was alone, and there's no need for me to say that.
Marc:I don't need a team of people to say that I was skeptical of the show.
Guest:No, of course.
Marc:You know, I said, I'm like, okay, here we go.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Comedy show about a show about comedy of that era of all things.
Marc:So I watched like one and I'm like, I don't know.
Marc:The tone is weird.
Marc:Like it's like, it's very clip.
Marc:It's very, you know, like a beat to beat.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Highly stylized context.
Marc:Um,
Marc:But then I watched another one and then Lenny Bruce shows up because he helps you out and gets you out of jail or whatever.
Marc:But yeah, as a guy who's listened to a lot of Lenny Bruce and seen Dustin do Lenny, that guy who plays him looks like him and I bought it.
Marc:I was like, all right, I see what they're doing.
Marc:They're playing with history.
Marc:They're taking a fundamentally...
Marc:not aware feminist character.
Marc:And they're backloading her.
Marc:Like they're creating you, your character would not have existed in that time.
Guest:Uh, yes.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Not exactly like that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I mean, Joan Rivers and stuff like that.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But not somebody who is discussing real issues, you know, of being a woman, of being a wife.
Guest:Joan talked about a lot of that stuff.
Marc:Right.
Marc:In jokes, though.
Marc:You're doing long form.
Guest:Yes, that's right.
Guest:Hers is more, Mitch's is more stream of consciousness.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So it's like a female Lenny Bruce in a way.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Similar style.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So like, so once I kind of got that, you know, no, I'm not taking anything away from Jonah River.
Marc:She was great.
Marc:And that may have been, you know, a point of departure, but someone with the freedom of mind that your character has is, is something that sort of exists today, but wouldn't have like necessarily had the, the, the way to exist then.
Guest:she wouldn't have been able to maintain that platform.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Probably.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Lenny Bruce had a hard enough time.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:He was barely tolerable.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But yeah, so once I kind of got into it and I got, you know, I was okay with it, but I ended up watching all of them and I liked it and I was moved and I thought it was good.
Marc:Thanks.
Marc:But what did you have to do for yourself to sort of find confidence?
Marc:I know you struggle with that just to perform, but to perform as a comic.
Guest:So I was really obviously intimidated by that.
Guest:But I think I realized about Mitch sort of what you touched on, which is that she doesn't start a comic.
Guest:She starts a woman who's having kind of a prolonged mental breakdown in the middle of a tragedy.
Guest:Her divorce.
Marc:Yes, exactly.
Guest:Her husband leaves her.
Guest:Her whole world gets turned upside down.
Marc:And that's a big deal at this time in history.
Guest:A huge deal.
Marc:In an upper class Jewish family.
Guest:I mean, there was no solution to that.
Guest:You could not win that game.
Guest:And that's why her dad turns to her and says, you got to get him back.
Guest:There was no other option.
Guest:And so she finds herself on stage.
Guest:She sort of stream of consciousness, talks about it, makes some jokes.
Guest:It's funny.
Guest:But she doesn't really become a comic until much later in the season.
Guest:And so that was the way in for me, I think.
Guest:I spent a lot of time...
Guest:Studying comedy, I have some friends who are comedians.
Guest:My friend Jasmine Pierce was very, very important to me during this process.
Guest:She writes for The Tonight Show.
Guest:And she was very skeptical as well as I think most of the comedy community was.
Marc:And what did she come back with?
Guest:She loved it.
Guest:At the end of the day, she loved it.
Guest:I think she felt like even though it's stylized and even though some parts of it are whimsical and fantastical, that the heart of it, the heart of this woman finding her voice through comedy rang true.
Guest:And so I think that's what she responded to the most.
Marc:Who were you listening to to get the hang of it?
Guest:I was listening to a lot of Joan Rivers, to Moms Mabley.
Guest:I was just sort of trying to immerse myself in the comedy world of the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I listened to a lot of Bob Newhart.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Lenny, did you listen to Lenny?
Guest:Of course.
Guest:Yeah, Lenny, of course.
Guest:And I also, I really loved, I think my favorite part about prepping for this show was going to a lot of open mic nights.
Guest:I think the part that I was most interested in was watching beginner comics test out material and mostly the way that they responded to success and failure.
Guest:That was something that I, that was something that as somebody with no experience in comedy, I wasn't really sure what that looked
Marc:Whether they go like, whoa, that didn't work out.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Whether they acknowledge it, how they acknowledge it, whether they're able to spin it into some kind of joke.
Guest:I watched a girl.
Guest:Oh, it just makes me nauseous.
Guest:I watched a girl sort of tank through most of the first minute or so of the set and just realize it wasn't going to get better.
Guest:She sort of started talking about some very personal childhood things, but not really in joke form.
Guest:And then she just hung up the mic and walked off the stage.
Guest:And as she was walking off the stage, the mic fell off the stand.
Guest:And we were like...
Guest:that one hurt in the guts a little exclamation point for the end of that sadness yeah yeah i'm still nauseous about it uh but but also you know i watched comedian early comics early comics beginning comics yeah make jokes that they didn't know would land like they did and that was kind of extraordinary like the surprise
Guest:The surprise and then the confidence that comes along with that surprise.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And the ability to nail jokes that maybe aren't even that funny for the rest of their set because they were so empowered by one moment that they weren't expecting.
Marc:And then the horrible thing is doing it again and it doesn't work.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Which I think you did in the show, right?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And that's something that I watched a lot with my friend Jasmine.
Guest:Jasmine started doing stand-up very similarly to Midget.
Guest:Tiny, tiny basement clubs, bringer shows, and moved her way up.
Guest:And I remember watching her hone the same set through some of those shows.
Guest:And just depending on... Sometimes it wasn't her.
Guest:Sometimes it was just the night and that audience.
Guest:I have so much...
Guest:admiration and awe and and the utmost respect for comedians i couldn't do it that you mean you didn't take you didn't take her out into the real clubs oh my god you never tried stand-up in the current culture absolutely not i oh that's interesting why won't you try that why won't jasmine write you a shtick
Guest:I mean, she would.
Guest:She's offered many times.
Guest:I think I would be so traumatized.
Guest:I'm not sure I'd be able to go back and do the show.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:It's not the same.
Guest:I can't claim to have ever actually done stand-up working on this show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I have material that's written for me by brilliant writers.
Guest:I'm not going out there as myself.
Guest:I'm playing a character who is really different from me.
Marc:So you wouldn't try stand-up out of fear or out of fear of how people would think of you?
Guest:Out of both?
Guest:Both.
Guest:Maybe, no, I never had any desire to do it before.
Guest:Maybe like now I've developed a newfound respect for it, having spent some time studying it.
Guest:But I don't, I've never had that desire to go out there and do it.
Guest:It just feels like the most vulnerable position you could possibly put yourself in.
Guest:You're putting yourself and your self-worth and part of your story on the line.
Guest:It comes from such a personal place.
Marc:Yeah, I think that's true.
Marc:I think I'm so jaded at this point because I've been doing it so long that I don't necessarily think about it like that anymore.
Marc:But I do know when I did an hour special last year and I haven't written a full hour since then.
Marc:Yeah, I've got a bunch of new material.
Guest:Hours, a lot.
Guest:That's a long time.
Marc:Well, you know, you kind of generate them.
Marc:If you're doing it, like if you're really in it and you're working stand-up, you're going to come up with it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I've got about 30 new minutes, but there's part of my brain that's sort of like, fuck, like that hour I did was good, but I don't want to go back.
Marc:Like you never want to go back.
Marc:And, and, and so I, I have that weird feeling of like, I'm just going to be, I'm going to be standing out there like an idiot.
Guest:But I kind of feel that way about acting.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, like I feel like every new job I started on, I'm like, God, why did I do this?
Guest:Why do I keep doing this to myself?
Guest:But obviously we love it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, Oh, it's going to be like 10 weeks.
Guest:I'm like, God, I'm the other shoes going to drop.
Guest:Everyone's going to know I'm a fraud.
Marc:Yeah, I get that one.
Marc:But for me, the fraud thing's not as much as it used to be.
Marc:Because I don't think I'm that.
Marc:I do think like I'm fairly, like with acting, I'm sort of like, look, I'm doing the best I can.
Marc:I've studied a bit.
Marc:I don't consider myself some sort of great actor.
Marc:But with stand-up, what I am always worried about is like, when do I just start crying?
Yeah.
Marc:in the middle of it you know in a theater when when do i just because it's come close to that before but i'm in a pretty good place in my life but like i always wonder where because i always leave it to right up to the edge with myself like you know i don't know what i'm gonna do but that's cool i mean is that what are you able to articulate why you keep going back to that to to stand up in general when you have that thing where you're like oh god why am i doing this
Marc:I forget.
Marc:I always forget that I'm a professional.
Marc:I always forget.
Marc:I ran into Chappelle and I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do out there.
Marc:He's like, I've had that feeling before, but we've been doing it, what, 30 years?
Marc:Something's going to happen.
Marc:It's probably going to be okay.
Marc:It's probably going to be fine.
Marc:Yeah, you know.
Marc:But I need to do it to myself.
Marc:I need to be like, I don't fucking know how to do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I don't have any good jokes.
Guest:I mean, that's a part of your process, right?
Marc:It is actually.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But like, it's a part that is pathological.
Marc:And you know, you would think after so many years, you'd be like, why don't you do something different so you don't have to freak yourself out and fuck yourself up for months on end.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:I kind of find that encouraging, though, if I'm being honest.
Guest:No, I do, because as a fairly young actor, that's how I feel all the time.
Marc:Full of dread?
Guest:Full of utter terror every single second.
Guest:And I'll never forget, actually, I did a project with Sam Neill a couple years ago, and Sam came on late in the project and shot all of his stuff together.
Guest:And on the very first day, Sam, who's been doing this forever, who's a brilliant, brilliant actor, went...
Guest:Oh God, it never gets easier.
Guest:And I was like, that's both utterly depressing and also really encouraging.
Guest:It makes you feel like you're not alone.
Guest:You're not insane for having those thoughts because you feel insane every time.
Guest:You're like, it's always been fine.
Guest:And also what's the worst thing that can happen?
Guest:You fail miserably and then hopefully you can pick yourself back up.
Marc:Right, or just with film or television, it's like you could do another take.
Guest:Right, or another project, hopefully.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:As an actor, you don't have a lot of control over the final project.
Guest:Yeah, and failure feels like a part of the process.
Guest:Everybody has done things.
Guest:If you are a successful performer in any field, everyone, every stand-up is bombed.
Guest:Every actor's made a terrible movie that you're not proud of, but it's a part of the learning process.
Marc:Sure, it has to be.
Guest:So I actually, thank you.
Guest:I love hearing that from you.
Marc:Yeah, it has to be.
Marc:But back in the day, you didn't have thousands of people posting, ironically, your failure.
Guest:It's sort of, I find, yeah, it's terrible.
Guest:The internet is a terrible, terrible pit of despair.
Guest:But it also kind of zeroes itself out.
Guest:Because for every person who's like, you suck and no one's ever been worse than you, there's also the other side that's like, literally no one's ever been greater than you.
Marc:Marry me.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And you're like, okay, this equals zero.
Marc:Yeah, that's true.
Marc:I mean, yeah, if you can do that, as long as the mathematic balance works on a day-to-day basis.
Marc:God, there's a lot more shitty ones today.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Today, everyone's like, your hair sucks.
Marc:It's terrible.
Guest:It really hurts.
Marc:I'm just awful today.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But, well, look, I like the show, but congratulations on the awards.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:I imagine you're gunning for an Emmy as well.
Guest:I mean, we're all singing for our supper right now, huh?
Marc:You too?
Marc:A little bit, yeah.
Marc:I've never done that singing for the supper.
Guest:I've never done it either.
Guest:It's all new.
Marc:I'm learning so much.
Marc:Get the publicist, and then they send you places, and they hope you don't say something stupid.
Guest:They send you to parties and hope you don't embarrass yourself.
Marc:And then I've got to buy another suit.
Marc:I've bought one suit.
Marc:I've got to be spare.
Guest:You're a man.
Guest:You can have one suit.
Guest:You can have a uniform.
Guest:You're allowed.
Marc:Maybe I'll get one other one.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Wow.
Guest:See, growth.
Marc:Yeah, but like you guys, you women, people dress you and they love dressing you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I find that fun.
Guest:I find it a nice distance from the thing.
Guest:The world is so strange.
Guest:You know, it's not a meritocracy.
Guest:And I actually find that sort of encouraging too, that you can do great work and people have done great work that isn't recognized this way.
Guest:But it's amazing if you are lucky enough to be recognized this way because it opens doors for other opportunities.
Guest:But I find there's something nice about being dressed by other people because it feels distant from my life.
Marc:that way oh yeah absolutely and then you you also realize in that moment like i don't have any taste yeah why do i only buy the same things why i have one outfit that looks good right exactly that's that's the extent of my it kind of bums me out like even with the house like putting my house together like if a designer came in like in a day i'd be like holy shit you just do that like it looks so i know i know but i'm so committed to like no i'm gonna slowly gather my shit and you work for it sure yeah
Marc:You don't want a bunch of alien things, weird clothing.
Guest:It's got to be your stuff in your house.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:But the weird clothing feels like costumes.
Marc:It does.
Guest:And I appreciate that.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:I've made tremendously horrible clothing choices many times over the years.
Guest:Oh, I've made some pretty terrible clothing choices as well.
Marc:Where you look at those pictures and you're like, okay.
Guest:For me, it's more about all the times I tried to do my own hair and makeup before admitting defeat.
Marc:Right, you're thinking like, I can do it.
Guest:I'm like, I've got this.
Guest:I don't need to be high maintenance.
Guest:I can do my own.
Guest:And it's a lot filled with regret.
Marc:And then you're just like the dumpy girl on the line at the red carpet.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:No.
Marc:What happened to her hair?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Then I learned that I can't and it's not worth the stress of trying to watch the YouTube tutorials to learn how to do my own makeup.
Marc:Before an award show, you're watching a YouTube tutorial.
Guest:We've done it.
Guest:Not before an award show, but before like, you know, I've gone to those like, I don't know, some like EW thing.
Guest:I was on a show.
Guest:We did an EW thing.
Guest:And I was like, I'm going to do my own.
Guest:I'm going to pick my own outfit.
Guest:I'm going to do my own makeup and cut to me in the bathroom with all the pieces of makeup I don't recognize laid out in front of me watching YouTube trying to apply highlighter to my cheekbones.
Guest:It was not well.
Marc:Would you show up looking like a doll?
Guest:I showed up looking like this is crazy.
Guest:I put this is the part I don't understand about makeup.
Guest:I put so much makeup on my face.
Guest:And in those photos, I look like I don't have any makeup on, but not in a good way.
Marc:So you kind of did it right, just not enough.
Guest:Maybe.
Guest:I look like a pancake.
Marc:Your face just flattened out?
Guest:Like completely flat.
Guest:That's not a skill I have.
Marc:Yeah, it's all right.
Guest:One day, though, I will say, I do...
Guest:And one day I want to get to the point where I'm brave enough to just fuck it.
Guest:You know, like Fran McDormand is kicking ass.
Guest:And she's so beautiful.
Guest:I like the armor of it, I think.
Guest:It feels like costume and sort of like a protective layer.
Marc:Playing dress up.
Marc:Yeah, which is fun.
Marc:And everyone understands the rules.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Like, look how I got dressed up.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Nobody thinks you did that yourself.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Guest:And that's fun as long as you recognize that.
Guest:But I also think, like, Fran McDormand is so stunning and so fucking cool.
Guest:And she looks incredible.
Guest:And she's found a way to be...
Guest:at least it appears, to be completely herself and own who she is and own her history and own what she wants her future to look like and feels empowered by that in a way that I find.
Marc:Yeah, she's amazing.
Marc:Definitely a powerful person.
Guest:Yeah, I've been lucky enough to meet her a couple of times.
Guest:And she was one of those people actually who early on just took time out of her day to be particularly generous and kind.
Guest:And she is.
Guest:She's so present and she looks you in the eye and is able to remove all the bullshit for you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you're wondering if you can handle it.
Marc:How long can I stay in this zone?
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It is my goal to be able to remain in that zone.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Stay in the gaze of Frances McDormand.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Where'd you meet her at?
Guest:We, again, one of these early sort of smaller roles that I had was in a miniseries Olive Kittredge.
Marc:Oh, that was great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What'd you play in that?
Guest:I played a young woman who has had many miscarriages, who works in a donut shop, who blows off a cliff.
Marc:Oh, right, right.
Marc:I remember that.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:Oh, it's so sad.
Marc:I like that series, that miniseries.
Guest:It's so stunning.
Guest:So beautiful.
Guest:Every performance across the board.
Guest:Pretty and sad.
Guest:Pretty and sad.
Marc:Jenkins was in it, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's a great guy.
Marc:He was extraordinary in it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Everyone was.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Well, we gave that a good review.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, good luck at the future awards and have fun shooting season two.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:And you too, the same.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Say hi to Kevin Pollack for me.
Guest:I will.
Guest:Oh, I will.
Marc:And Tony now.
Marc:Tony's my friend.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I hope we see you all over.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:At this.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Singing for our supper.
Marc:Yeah, I got some of that stuff coming up.
Marc:And some glow press, but I'm not going to see you there.
Guest:Some what press?
Marc:Glow, glow.
Marc:Oh, glow.
Marc:See, I fucked up my house.
Marc:So exciting.
Marc:All right, bye.
Guest:Bye.
Marc:So that was that.
Marc:Again, the show, The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel.
Marc:Season one is on Amazon.
Marc:I imagine season two is forthcoming.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That was fun, right?
Marc:I think I got to get a different guitar out here, put some new fucking strings on this, or maybe I just got to practice more.
I don't know.
.
.
guitar solo
Guest:Boomer Lives!