Episode 919 - Tom Papa
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it how's it going with you you all right what's happening you freaking out i'm not freaking out today i'm happy to be back home
Marc:Tom Papa is on the show today.
Marc:Tom is a comedian I've known for a long time.
Marc:Started a few years after me, but I've known him forever.
Marc:We've never sat down and talked in here.
Marc:I've had, you know, kind of... I projected a lot of stuff onto Tom in the past.
Marc:I just never could get a handle on where the fuck he was coming from.
Marc:And I kind of need a handle on where the fuck you're coming from if I'm going to engage with you more than a few times.
Marc:So I decided a few things about him that weren't true.
Marc:And I was kind of an asshole to him a few times, but...
Marc:He's one of those guys that just kind of knew who I was and knew the kind of person I was, and it didn't really affect him that deeply.
Marc:It kind of rolled off him.
Marc:There are people that have dealt with me over the years that they see me coming, and they're like, all right, you know, gird her up.
Marc:I'm going to have to deal with this guy, this guy whose brain is on fire, and he's got to say something horrible to me in a few minutes.
Marc:But it didn't really have an effect on him, and I was happy to get to know him and make a mild amends.
Marc:in a couple places, but he's a great guy, great comic, and we had a nice conversation.
Marc:You'll hear that momentarily.
Marc:Thank you all for some of the nice emails about the Neil Brennan episode.
Marc:We got down to psychological, spiritual, and emotional brass tacks, kind of hashed it out.
Marc:Sometimes that's good.
Marc:It was very focused.
Marc:Had an agenda in a lot of ways, and I think we covered a lot of turf, a lot of ground, a lot of the inner landscape, and got a couple emails from people who were like, man, I never thought about that.
Marc:And you just shook something loose forever.
Marc:One guy wrote an email, where the hell is that?
Marc:Subject line, Neil Brennan, that's all.
Marc:Mark, your interview with Neil was beautiful.
Marc:Great job.
Marc:It never occurred to me that my parents never really had the capacity to love or be loved.
Marc:You guys answered a lot of questions that have had me puzzled for decades.
Marc:My sincere thanks, John.
Marc:Decades.
Marc:It's interesting when something shakes loose like that, when the lens just shifts, when just one little thing is thrown into the head and everything changes about how you saw who you were or how you came to where you are.
Marc:It's a very thrilling thing when it sticks, you know what I mean?
Marc:Unfortunately...
Marc:having the brain open to that kind of thing.
Marc:A lot of things could be thrown in there that stick that are just fucking terrible and make you do terrible things and, you know, perceive reality as something completely other than what it is and take action in relation to that delusion.
Marc:So be wary of those.
Marc:But if something just shakes something loose and makes things a little easier for you to understand for yourself and your heart, good, great, glad to help out.
Marc:So I'm back in the garage, the new garage.
Marc:And I got to tell you, folks, those of you who are concerned, this place is going to be great.
Marc:I don't even know why, really.
Marc:I mean, it's a different space.
Marc:It's filled differently.
Marc:It's shaped differently.
Marc:Had some sound issues that are, you know, working themselves out.
Marc:But again, it's a podcast.
Marc:I don't need a soundproof room.
Marc:But there's something about this space that's different than the other space.
Marc:The other space, as great as it was, it was cozy.
Marc:It absorbed sound nicely.
Marc:It was cluttered on the floor, on the walls, the ceiling.
Marc:It was smaller.
Marc:But there was a lot going on.
Marc:But there's something that's happening here.
Marc:There's a focus that's happening in here.
Marc:The vibe is we're here to do this.
Marc:We're here to talk.
Marc:We're here to have this experience where we talk to each other.
Marc:There's not a lot of distractions.
Marc:There's not a lot of chaos on the margins.
Marc:And there's just something about the way I'm focusing in here and the way the guest is sort of focusing where the conversations are longer and they seem like they could go on even longer than they have been.
Marc:I'm doing long talks in here.
Marc:I don't know if it's something more relaxing here or there's something more...
Marc:Grounded about this space.
Marc:I mean the old space was just a history of me and my chaos and things I was holding on to this is Maybe just an evolution or maybe it just feels a little more grounded in here and I'm fucking digging it so
Marc:I'm back.
Marc:I'm back from Birmingham.
Marc:And I think I can tell you what was happening if you didn't assume or figure it out.
Marc:I was shooting a little movie.
Marc:We shot it out in like two weeks.
Marc:Lynn Shelton directed.
Marc:She wrote it with Mike O'Brien.
Marc:Funny guy, but it's sort of a different type of movie for Lynn.
Marc:Certainly a different type of movie for me.
Marc:It was an odd story that required the South as a backdrop.
Marc:There was a lot of interesting characters.
Marc:It was a completely improvised movie.
Marc:that featured me, Michaela Watkins, Jillian Bell, John Bass, Toby Huss came down and shot a bit, Tim Paul, Whit Thomas, a comedian that I had met but didn't remember, and Dan Bakdahl.
Marc:Is that how you pronounce his last name?
Marc:Bakdahl, I think.
Marc:You might know him from Veep.
Marc:Very funny guy.
Marc:It was just sort of like this kind of insane...
Marc:improvisational kind of it's kind of a comedy but it's kind of rings a little true i mean it's a odd little film and it was it was shot with a lot of sweat a lot of sweat and angst not too much angst but i get uncomfortable in humidity and when you got to shoot a scene in the in the back of a truck uh for 12 hours in a marginally air-conditioned space uh
Marc:And you just you feel you just kind of coated with a glaze of fucking damp sweat the whole time.
Marc:It's a, you know, granted.
Marc:All right.
Marc:It's not the revenant.
Marc:You know, I'm not you know, I'm not in the Arctic or in the wilderness.
Marc:I'm not eating raw liver to make sure there's authenticity to the part.
Marc:But it's a little uncomfortable.
Marc:But all in all, it was a pretty great time and a pretty interesting movie.
Marc:And I'm looking forward to seeing what Lynn cobbles together out of the footage we shot, man.
Marc:I mean, fuck.
Marc:A lot of stuff going on.
Marc:And when he improvised a movie, it was pretty awesome.
Marc:It's a lot different than, okay, where do I stand and say my line and get behind that line?
Marc:It's sort of like, you got to be all in for this shit.
Marc:I was working with geniuses.
Marc:Fucking comedy geniuses.
Marc:The lot of them.
Marc:Every one of them.
Marc:Dan, Jillian, John, Tim, Toby, Witt, Michaela, who I've worked with before.
Marc:Fucking genius.
Marc:But it's a good experience.
Marc:And now that I'm back and I'm sort of still...
Marc:Working on my new house and I've decided to do a sugar detox because I'm carrying a lot of the South with me right now.
Marc:Just above my pants, just above the belt line.
Marc:I feel a little bit of the South hanging over just a bit of the South on the sides spilling over my belt line a bit.
Marc:And not that I don't love the South.
Marc:My love for the South doesn't need to be expressed through love handles.
Marc:You dig, man?
Marc:All right?
Marc:We on the same page.
Marc:Also, I don't want to neglect or forget to give a shout-out to the entire crew of Sword of Trust.
Marc:Did I even mention the name of the movie?
Marc:That's the name of the movie.
Marc:Sword of Trust, and everybody who worked on it from top to bottom was just a pleasure.
Marc:And I realized, man, you know...
Marc:If you like doing something, a lot of times, maybe this is just me, when you do it for work, you may forget that you like it, even though you like it and that's why you do the work.
Marc:So try to remember when you're doing something you like to continue liking it if you're fortunate enough to do something you like for a living.
Marc:Does that make sense?
Marc:When things become a job, you risk the possibility that you will not like it anymore because it's a job.
Marc:But try to remember that you liked doing the job and it's what you do or else you get into a fucking dark hole.
Marc:Or else you're just a complaining asshole.
Marc:Or else you're just someone who's incapable of having a good time.
Marc:A, B, or C. All of the above.
Marc:You know what I'm saying.
Marc:So here's the other thing I wanted to tell you because I don't know that it's important.
Marc:But I've become obsessed with
Marc:You know when you have an album for years, you know an album or it's just there and you know, everyone amasses so much music that you forget to focus in on everything because you've got thousands of things.
Marc:But I was on the plane and I wanted to have stuff on my phone.
Marc:I was just picking things at random and I picked Planet Waves by Bob Dylan, a record that I haven't paid enough attention to or much attention to in years, even if I processed it then.
Marc:I don't know that I really did.
Marc:Whatever the case, my point is, is out of nowhere,
Marc:After years, that's just become my favorite Bob Dylan record.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It's not even a matter of missing it.
Marc:It's just a matter of sometimes, and I've said this before, you have artists that their stuff just grows with you or it sneaks up on you or takes on a different meaning.
Marc:As you get older, it just morphs along with you.
Marc:It sort of shape shifts or it evolves or it becomes something different for you as you become older or evolve.
Marc:regress or whatever once when music isn't limited to nostalgia and you give it some space again you kind of you can be blown away and i'm i've gotten obsessed with planet waves to the point where i'm amassing copies of the vinyl i went out and bought two yesterday i'm gonna go pick another one up today and i'll probably get as many as i can then it's not an expensive record people don't seem to give a fuck about the record i bought a sealed uh
Marc:copy of it from 74, and it was $10.
Marc:But this is an album that he made around 73, 74, I think, with the band.
Marc:I didn't realize that Dylan had only done two records with the band and a live one and The Last Waltz.
Marc:And...
Marc:fucking miraculous record this space that that band finds amongst each other to just fill together in some sort of strange unified beauty that it doesn't it just doesn't happen that often and Dylan right at that moment it was just complete symbiosis of perfectly American music and it would just I don't know man I can't I can't stop listening to fucking Planet Waves by Bob Dylan
Marc:Maybe you should give it a try.
Marc:Maybe you'll get excited too.
Marc:But just listen to that band and listen to where they're at and listen to fucking Levon and Rick and Richard and Robbie and Garth and just, I mean, wow.
Marc:Danko and Helm, man.
Marc:That fucking rhythm section.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:Anyway, that's what's going on with me.
Marc:Anyway, Tom Papa, his new book, Your Dad Stole My Rake and Other Family Dilemmas, is now available for pre-order.
Marc:It comes out June 5th.
Marc:Had a lovely talk here in the new garage with Tom, and this is it.
Marc:This is it.
Marc:We didn't start out together.
Marc:You started later than me, right?
Guest:I started in 93.
Marc:Right, later, right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because I remember seeing you.
Marc:I remember for some reason, I didn't know what to make of you.
Marc:I know you didn't.
Marc:Is that true?
Marc:You mean you could feel that?
Marc:Yeah, 100%.
Marc:What do you think it was?
Guest:Well, nobody, I don't think anybody that did stand up in the beginning in New York didn't have a Marc Maron litmus test.
Guest:You run into people, and there's some people you run into, and you're like, well, that guy's sizing me up, and he's not telling me what he thinks.
Marc:You just appeared out of nowhere.
Marc:You looked kind of conservative-ish or something.
Marc:I can't remember how you struck me.
Marc:I didn't know what to make of you.
Marc:And I just remember you, I think you were a little heavier.
Guest:Yeah, a little bit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you kind of hung around.
Marc:And I remember seeing the Carolines.
Marc:And then I remember, I just didn't, I don't know why I never could figure out who you were.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's the thing.
Marc:It's sort of like, I don't know if you were playing your cards close to your chest or maybe you're just that guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:As time goes on, I realize you're kind of that guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's interesting because I literally would think that about you.
Guest:I'm honest.
Guest:I would think, he doesn't know who I am.
Marc:Did that affect you in any way?
Guest:Like, maybe I should do... Yeah, I carried you around a little bit.
Guest:Not too much, though, because you seemed so...
Guest:balled up with yourself yeah that it wasn't like I never like I knew maybe I wasn't cool enough in your eyes maybe there was like who is this guy kind of a vibe but I didn't carry you like the weight of you around like some other people yeah I don't know yeah I guess some people did you know it turns out that I was just an aggravated self involved person what are you looking surprised about yeah because you were you know you would you would take shots once in a while for sure yeah
Marc:And other guys?
Guest:I told you, no, like just interacting with you, it'd be like, you know.
Marc:Oh yeah, what did you tell me?
Marc:I can't remember.
Guest:It's like hanging out with like a pet that you don't really know.
Guest:Yeah, like this one's a little wild.
Guest:You're like, oh, this is cool.
Guest:He's letting me scratch behind his ears.
Guest:He just bit my finger.
Guest:Why did he do that?
Guest:And then he's gotten out the back door.
Marc:What was the story you told me?
Marc:I remember it's not a good one.
Marc:It's not a great story.
Marc:I know it doesn't make me look good.
Guest:It doesn't make either of us look that great.
Guest:No, we were fine.
Guest:But it was just one of those moments.
Guest:I got an early TV pilot on NBC.
Guest:And it was very, very early.
Guest:And I ran into you out here.
Guest:It was the first time we were in the hallway of the improv.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I came off stage and you were the only one in the hallway and you said something like...
Guest:So what's this?
Guest:What's going on?
Guest:And I said, you know, doing this pilot, doing this TV show.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:So why does that bother you?
Guest:You said, no, I mean, it makes sense that you're doing it.
Guest:I just don't think you deserve it.
Guest:But it made me laugh.
Guest:You made me laugh the way Kevin Brennan would make me laugh.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Like some people would be like...
Guest:F that guy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I always took it as it was just you.
Marc:But I kind of remember that.
Marc:And I remember like, because that's a kind of interesting part of who I was then was that there were certain moments where I would choose to say something awful.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, there's no way to interpret that.
Marc:It's not a coded thing.
Marc:You're not like, what does that mean?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No subtlety.
Marc:No, no subtlety at all.
Marc:No.
Marc:But I clearly meant to just be like, fuck you.
Marc:Right, exactly.
Marc:You know, like right to your face.
Guest:Yeah, I don't have it.
Guest:For no reason.
Guest:You've got a nibble.
Guest:I haven't gotten a nibble.
Guest:Screw you.
Marc:But like it was a buildup of this sort of like not being able to get a handle on your personality or understand, you know, like you were one of those guys in my mind.
Marc:It's like, what is he doing?
Marc:Like how did people get a sense of that guy?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I don't even know if I really was paying attention to your act at that time.
Marc:And it wasn't until not too long ago that I just started paying attention to this sort of long form kind of accessible, but very well crafted shit you were doing.
Marc:And I don't know if you were doing that at the beginning.
Marc:I can't remember.
Guest:No.
Guest:There was just always something.
Marc:I took your personality at that time, which is not that different than it is now, as sort of like glib and artificial.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I don't, you know, just kind of like, hi, how's everyone doing?
Marc:I'm like, what the fuck is he doing?
Marc:You know, like.
Guest:Why is he being so friendly?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, I think it's genuinely who you are.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It took till like, you know, last year for me to realize it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, in the beginning, it's just, you know, there was no craft.
Guest:You know, I think Attell said to me early on, like, yeah, eight years.
Guest:Like, he put eight years in my head that that's when you really start to kind of figure it out.
Marc:Well, that's what I remembered about you is that you were one of those guys.
Marc:And, you know, in Geraldo, too, I think.
Marc:You guys must have started at the same time-ish.
Marc:Exactly the same time.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, he started, like, a little before.
Guest:My first time on stage was...
Guest:Me and him in a bringer show at the New York Comedy Club.
Marc:No kidding.
Guest:Upstairs from that cowboy bar at the time.
Guest:And it was June 12th, 1993.
Guest:Hold on.
Guest:It was like a western bar downstairs.
Guest:Which New York Comedy Club was that?
Guest:It was upstairs.
Guest:Holy fuck.
Guest:I don't even know if I remember that one.
Guest:A small spot.
Guest:I brought five friends and there was probably seven people in the audience.
Guest:Including your seven?
Marc:Including my five.
Marc:So five of the seven were yours?
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And it's at like five in the afternoon, like in June.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like it's light out.
Marc:It's horrible.
Marc:People are sweaty.
Guest:New Jersey at three.
Guest:And I walk in and there is a very extremely nervous, clean shaven, sweaty Greg Giraldo.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hey, man, what's going on?
Guest:Yeah, he was so nice.
Guest:And I did my first spot, and then Greg and I just, that was it.
Guest:We were like brothers.
Guest:He was just so great.
Marc:Yeah, kind of connect you two.
Marc:He was a little pudgier then.
Guest:He was.
Guest:He was a little doughier.
Guest:And I would do shows with him in Gaffigan.
Guest:That was kind of the...
Guest:He started the same time you two?
Guest:Yeah, I think him and Greg had started just like six months before I did.
Guest:What year is this?
Guest:1993.
Guest:Really?
Guest:June 12th, 1993.
Marc:Right, so you guys came in.
Marc:That's right, I remember Gaffigan.
Marc:When did you start?
Marc:Gaffigan seemed more albino-ish then.
Marc:yes didn't he yes completely like he was almost freakish and you're like i think it was because of the glasses yeah because he doesn't wear them anymore and that's the only because he can't look that much different but i think he used to wear those frames and somehow or another you'd see him you're like what the fuck is with that it's like albino and he and his act he had the thing like that second voice thing yeah like the kevin meany thing yeah the yeah the uh you know
Guest:But he didn't have the other part of just being Jim.
Guest:So he would just be this big albino guy walking back on stage going, making these weird noises.
Guest:And I was like, what's going to happen to that guy?
Marc:Where's that going?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And he was like an ex-football player.
Marc:He was bigger.
Marc:He was heavier than two.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I don't know why that's the theme.
Guest:I know.
Marc:Everyone was fatter then, yeah.
Marc:But I think that's what I remember is that you and Geraldo specifically just hanging around sponging the energy.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Like taking it all along.
Guest:Oh, completely.
Guest:We just could not believe that we were doing it.
Guest:We just could not believe that.
Guest:And the crazy thing about stand-up that I realized, because I had acted in school and I was like, maybe I'll try and get parts, but I always had wanted to be a comedian.
Guest:And the first time I did...
Guest:stand-up, it was like, oh, this is like a backdoor into- You're that guy.
Guest:Yeah, I don't have to get hired to get on stage.
Marc:You can get on stage all the time.
Guest:I can get on stage.
Guest:And Jon Stewart and Grace Butler, Butler.
Guest:Brett.
Guest:Brett Butler.
Guest:Brett Butler, who's her show is Grace.
Guest:Yeah, Grace Hunter for her.
Guest:I was hosting and they were on the show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, this is amazing.
Guest:Like, you could not believe you were around these people.
Guest:Like, you could share the stage with them.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, Greg.
Guest:And I quit for, I did it for like a year and then quit.
Guest:For how long?
Guest:For like, probably like eight months.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So let's go back then.
Marc:So the real desire was to be an actor.
Marc:I mean, ultimately, coming out.
Guest:No, I wanted to be a stand-up as a kid.
Guest:From the time I was a kid.
Guest:Where'd you grow up?
Guest:In New Jersey.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:What part of New Jersey?
Guest:Northern New Jersey.
Marc:Do you feel like I'm from New Jersey?
Marc:No.
Marc:I was born in New Jersey.
Marc:You were?
Marc:First six years of my life, New Jersey.
Marc:Where?
Marc:Pompton Lakes.
Marc:Oh, Pompton Lakes.
Marc:Morris County.
Marc:Yeah, it's not that far.
Marc:No, it's not far from you, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:No, you have a little Jersey.
Marc:Oh yeah, I'm genetically Jersey all the way through.
Marc:Both my parents, Jersey, Jersey City, Pompton Lakes.
Guest:Yeah, Jersey City was my mother.
Marc:Oh really?
Marc:Yeah, as a kid.
Marc:What kind of background are you?
Guest:Italian and one German.
Marc:German and Italian?
Guest:Yeah, my one grandfather was German, the other three Italian.
Marc:Oh yeah, mostly Italian.
Guest:Mostly Italian, I feel Italian, I don't feel German.
Marc:What town?
Guest:Woodcliffe Lake, Park Ridge, Montvale.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Up there.
Guest:Nice.
Guest:The border of New York and New Jersey.
Marc:Jersey's pretty.
Marc:Jersey's nice.
Marc:The more I think about it, the more I grow up.
Marc:I remember visiting from New Mexico to see the grandparents and aunts and uncles.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:In the summer, you get the big tomatoes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it was almost like...
Guest:hazy from the humidity yeah it's so very lush so green i know incredibly green yeah and the beautiful beach pretty state it's really nice the problem is people come into newark airport and you drive on that turnpike at that same time of year and the sky is orange yeah newark elizabeth patterson is not great i mean there's definitely areas that's rough in jersey they're definitely rough i know
Guest:But as a kid, I could see the Empire State Building from my little desk.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:You could see it in the distance.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I just wanted to be a comedian.
Guest:I always wanted to be a comedian.
Guest:Why?
Guest:And then when I went to school, I was very funny as a kid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I listened to comedy albums.
Guest:I had this one week.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I listened to Let's Get Small with my friends, older friends.
Guest:They turned you on to it?
Guest:I had no idea that he sings...
Guest:Grandpa bought a rubber.
Guest:I had no idea what a rubber was, but I saw all the older kids laughing.
Guest:I was like, wait, this is a job?
Guest:And then I went to my friend Joe's house later in the week, and his father had given him class clown, and we sat in his basement.
Guest:Shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, motherfucker, and tits.
Guest:Yeah, I was like,
Guest:All right.
Guest:I'm funny.
Guest:These guys make a living out of this.
Guest:And that just started the whole, like, just started my thinking.
Marc:So what was that kid's name?
Marc:So-and-so passed an entire cheese sandwich through his nose.
Marc:Sister so-and-so thought it was a miracle.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:so crazy just the cover him just like this hippie like yeah so i just you know as a funny kid and i just want to do that but then when i'm i was in college i was uh acting i just started acting i played football my whole high school really i wasn't an arty kid so did gaffigan right yeah gaffigan played
Marc:Really?
Marc:You played football?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My father was a big football guy.
Guest:Big time football guy.
Marc:So you're a sports fan now?
Guest:I'm a baseball fan now.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like a lot?
Marc:Like you look forward to it?
Guest:I really love watching- Is it happening now?
Guest:Yankees, yeah.
Marc:Is it happening?
Guest:It's happening right now.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:So you watch the games?
Guest:I watch games.
Guest:I keep them on.
Guest:I like- This is my level.
Guest:I like that I can read while watching a game.
Marc:Because you just listen and we hear the clack of the bat.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Hey.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:I can't really focus on basketball.
Marc:We hear that clack.
Guest:Hey.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:I really love that.
Guest:I love like you could sit with a paper and watch it.
Marc:What position?
Guest:I was a fullback.
Guest:I ran.
Guest:But I started in kindergarten.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:A lot of pictures of you?
Guest:That was my connection with my father.
Guest:So you had one.
Marc:I would work out.
Marc:If it started in kindergarten.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You had a connection.
Marc:I did.
Marc:All the way.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You have siblings?
Marc:He was a tough guy.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Two younger sisters.
Marc:Oh, so it was on you.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it was all me.
Guest:All me all the time.
Guest:And by the time I got to high school, I was like, I am, you know, enough of this.
Marc:I'm tired of wearing pads.
Guest:And I went to Ryder College in New Jersey.
Marc:But your dad, though, he was a big guy?
Marc:He was a big, yeah, forearms.
Marc:Still around?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:I call him the tank.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He's got these forearms.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just like you would like him.
Guest:He's a no bullshit guy, tough.
Guest:Is he Italian?
Guest:Approachable, yeah.
Marc:Is he the full Italian?
Marc:Sicilian.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah, his parents are both, yeah, Sicilians.
Guest:and like what what did he do he was he was in sales for like early internet communications companies but he did very well he came from nothing yeah eight brothers six brothers and sisters yeah no money yeah worked his way up yeah did this sales thing made good money doing it
Guest:hated it yeah and he just he'd not he would he had like these sideburns and he would go to like these conferences and he'd put up uh like uh perverted slideshows because he thought it was funny and and he's not a funny guy really no but he just you could there was a rebel so he rode motorcycles oh yeah he was not a corporate guy but he needed to make money for his family and did that but i always got the sense like he wants out oh really yeah he wants out was he angry
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Very sweet, complex guy.
Guest:Very sweet, but then the anger would, boom.
Marc:Right away?
Marc:Come up.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:In the house?
Guest:In the house.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Outside.
Guest:Outside the house.
Marc:At restaurants.
Guest:At restaurants.
Guest:In the car.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You didn't mess.
Guest:You did not mess.
Guest:It was like when you-
Marc:Was there a beat where you're like, oh, no.
Guest:The phrase is, I'm going to tell your father, or your father's is almost home.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Horrible.
Guest:Oh, no.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You guys get along now?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What about your mom?
Guest:She was funny.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She's still funny.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You got to be when you're living with a monster.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, an intense guy.
Guest:And they met in high school.
Guest:And he's very quiet and stuff.
Guest:And she was a goofball doing voices.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Imitating everybody from our life.
Guest:And her father was very funny.
Guest:My grandfather.
Marc:Did they ever do anything?
Marc:Storytellers.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Very much like could light up the room kind of.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Capture everybody.
Marc:What did your mom do when you were growing up?
Guest:She raised us and then went back to school and she got her degree while we were going through like junior high and high school.
Guest:In what?
Guest:Then she ran an advertising company, a small ad agency.
Marc:So she got you guys out of the way and then, you know.
Guest:Yeah, she kept doing it.
Guest:She always had her little eye on, like there was like feminist stuff going on and she was, she's very kind of sweet, soft spoken, but she was always like thinking about feminist stuff and wanted her own business and got her own business.
Marc:Advertising's kind of creative.
Marc:It is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It is.
Marc:They together still?
Guest:She could write.
Guest:She's a writer.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She could tell stories.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, advertising requires writing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then you start- Are they still together?
Guest:Then you start doing like your clients or nursing homes and stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You can't get too funny.
Marc:You're right.
Marc:It can't be too creative.
Marc:You're almost dead.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Are they still married?
Guest:Yeah, in their 70s, married, still taking motorcycle trips.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So they ride together or she gets in a little- She gets on the back.
Marc:Oh, she does?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, that's sweet.
Guest:They've done the whole, all of Europe, all of the US.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, man, that's kind of nice.
Marc:Yeah, it's kind of cool.
Marc:Like Harley?
Marc:What kind of bike?
Marc:Harley's.
Marc:He's all Harley's.
Marc:All Harley?
Marc:Does he hang around with a bunch of other old guys who ride Harley's?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he would go on this trip in June every year.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I started riding after college.
Guest:You ride?
Guest:I did, yeah.
Marc:No more.
Guest:No, out here with kids, a career.
Guest:Scary.
Guest:Yeah, scary.
Marc:So is that something else that you and Geraldo bonded over?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Geraldo and I used to, we had bikes in the city at the same time.
Guest:I remember.
Guest:And we would go park them.
Guest:That was the first time we could easily get from the strip to the cellar.
Guest:On the bike?
Guest:Because remember, it was such a shit show to get down there.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It was expensive.
Marc:And you had like half hour between spots and you had to traverse the entire expanse of the vertical of New York.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:To get from bleaker to fucking, you know, like 90, what is it?
Marc:Oh, no.
Guest:No, like 76.
Marc:76.
Guest:on the east side yeah on like second avenue yeah it was like there's no trains gonna help if you had to go to stand up new york that's what i get 95th or something yeah the hell was that was that was 78th and broadway oh but over yeah yeah yeah yeah but you the to the seller forget and you you know we had no money we we needed that yeah ten dollars you got for your spot we couldn't pay for a cab right 25 cab so you guys had so we got motorcycles that was the coolest we could just cruise down and
Marc:Would you ride together on separate bikes?
Guest:Once in a while.
Guest:But normally, you know how you're running spots.
Marc:Louie had one too for a while.
Marc:You just meet up.
Marc:Louie had one, and then he fucking got in that horrible accident.
Marc:It's usually what happens to people, why they quit riding.
Marc:You're like, maybe I don't want to be in a wheelchair fucking dribbling as my kids get older.
Guest:Yeah, before the kids thing, it was when I started getting a career as a stand-up, and I was like, I don't want to limp on the stage.
Guest:I don't want to have to limp.
Marc:Like Jimmy Schubert?
Guest:Yeah, like a cane.
Marc:Schubert's a motorcycle limp.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I heard he got it fixed.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Do you know Jimmy?
Guest:A little bit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:A little bit.
Marc:I heard he got it fixed.
Marc:Yeah, motorcycles are rough.
Marc:All right, so your dad, they go on June.
Guest:So I would do those trips with him all the time.
Marc:And you had a Harley too?
Guest:No, everyone was Harleys, and I couldn't afford a Harley, so I bought a Yamaha Virago.
Guest:It's a Japanese bike that looks like a Harley.
Marc:So it's a road bike.
Marc:It's a road bike.
Guest:It was like a cruiser.
Guest:It looked cool.
Guest:It was good, and they would bust my balls, but they broke down every trip.
Guest:They would break down.
Guest:The Harleys?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:People would come up from Tennessee and be like, why are you letting this guy ride with you?
Guest:I'm sitting there on my little Honda.
Marc:That's still right.
Guest:My Yamaha.
Guest:The one that's not broken.
Guest:My line was, somebody's got to go for parts.
Guest:But it was cool, and I kind of feel like my father's still going, and I don't ride anymore, and I know he really wants me to.
Guest:It's kind of the reverse father-son thing.
Marc:I would be terrified.
Marc:I'm terrified to walk on a sidewalk with people texting.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:All it takes is some guy to just go over three feet.
Marc:Oh, I know.
Marc:But it seems like highway riding, once you get out in it, is a little safer.
Guest:Yeah, and country roads.
Guest:He's been doing it so long.
Guest:I just can't now.
Guest:But I feel like that would be a cool thing.
Guest:He really wants me.
Guest:We had football for a long time.
Guest:We had bikes for a long time.
Guest:And now we just talk on the phone.
Marc:right i guess that's what happens yeah but but all right so so you're in jersey yeah and you go to college and you're acting and what like what are you taking it seriously i am taking i'm totally are you studying theater i'm studying theater that's what you're majoring in no majoring in communications but i go to rider because they have no football program they were banned from football they cheated like there's something no one can pressure me no one not not even me out of guilt can do it
Guest:100%, and I knew they had a theater department, and I said, I'll go there.
Guest:And I started studying.
Guest:I had these really good teachers, and I was in all the plays, and I just loved it.
Guest:Everything else just fell aside.
Marc:Yeah, like what kind of plays?
Marc:I did All My Sons.
Guest:I did Dracula.
Guest:I did Equus.
Guest:Really?
Guest:That's heavy.
Guest:It was heavy.
Guest:Did you play the kid or the doctor?
Guest:I played the doctor.
Guest:An 18-year-old kid imitating Richard Burton.
Guest:Trying to pretend that I smoke.
Guest:But I learned a lot.
Guest:But more than...
Guest:like learning how to act, it was that I became confident that I could live this lifestyle.
Marc:On stage somehow.
Guest:Somehow.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Growing up with salespeople and all this other people in my life and no one in the arts.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just remember, I remember like at a, we had rehearsal for this play.
Guest:It was like dress rehearsal was coming down to the thing.
Guest:And we lived off campus.
Guest:My friends and I had this house.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they were having this great big party that they were planning.
Guest:And I was at the Wawa after rehearsal, the 7-Eleven, getting a sandwich, knowing that the party was going on.
Guest:But kind of in my head going over my lines, I'd just gotten out of rehearsal.
Guest:And there was no rush in me to get to the party.
Guest:I remember standing in that Wawa thinking...
Guest:This is what it is to be an actor.
Guest:This is what it is to be in the art somehow.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:I have no, I just, getting my sandwich by myself, thinking about my lines.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And that moment was like.
Marc:And not wanting to go to the party.
Guest:And I'll get there, whatever.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But that's also what makes you a comic.
Marc:You're like, you're not like, I got to get to the party.
Marc:You're like, this is good.
Marc:I got my thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You're going to eat my food.
Marc:And that's that.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:That's a very big moment, you know, because you realize, no, they're chasing something, but I found something.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's kind of how I felt.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you graduate?
Guest:I did.
Guest:I graduated and I went on one interview in an ad agency.
Guest:At your mom's and she didn't hire you?
Guest:No, I actually ended up working for her after this, right when I graduated because I had no money.
Guest:I went on an interview because I figured I'll go to New York and be in advertising.
Guest:That was the thing maybe I was supposed to do.
Guest:And I went and I met with a guy in a cubicle.
Guest:He's there in his suspenders and he's miserable.
Guest:And he's asking me mean questions.
Guest:And I'm in a wool suit in the summer, like in the heat.
Guest:And I'm like, what is this?
Guest:I love New York, but this isn't what I want to... And I went home.
Guest:I went back to my house.
Guest:I had to get to rehearsal.
Guest:I drove down by Princeton, so you drive two hours, whatever, to...
Guest:took this suit off, put my Converse on, and walked across the parking lot to rehearsal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, there is no way I'm working.
Guest:There's no way I'm working.
Guest:I'm not doing it.
Guest:I'm not doing it.
Guest:What was the interview for?
Guest:Bozell Advertising.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:That was one of the questions he asked me.
Guest:So do you want to do account, or do you want to do creative?
Guest:And I was like, I don't know.
Guest:What is it?
Guest:I don't know what it is.
Guest:Well, you don't know?
Guest:You're going to have to know that if you're going to interview.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:No, I don't.
Guest:Or I just don't come into your industry at all and never have to learn it.
Marc:He was right, though.
Marc:Kind of.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:If you were serious, you should know the different departments.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like maybe what you kind of want to do.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You should have said advertising.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:He shouldn't sit in there probably a little high.
Guest:Wasting his time.
Guest:Sweating.
Guest:In your bad suit.
Guest:Obviously sending signals that you don't want to talk to him.
Marc:You just came in to interview so you could throw shade at the fucking guy giving the interview.
Marc:Teach him a lesson.
Guest:Right, exactly.
Guest:You little arrogant, long-haired guy.
Marc:So you did end up working for your mom?
Guest:I did.
Guest:I worked for her until I could make enough money doing stand-up.
Marc:So, okay, so you go back, and then you're doing shows in college, and then how do you get started with the stand-up?
Guest:Well, I came out of school, and I was like, I auditioned for the Rutgers program, Mason Gross graduate program for acting.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, and I didn't get it.
Guest:I didn't get in.
Guest:And I was like, well, I'll just get close to New York, and I'll start auditioning, I guess.
Guest:And...
Guest:I went into the city and I don't think I even auditioned.
Guest:I didn't even have an act.
Marc:I never got there.
Marc:It's so weird.
Marc:It's saying the approach is the same way you approach the advertising agency.
Marc:I guess I'll just look in the paper.
Marc:Someone will tell me what to do or where to go.
Guest:That's what happened.
Guest:Backstage, I got the Village Voice and I looked in the Village Voice and there was an ad for the New York Comedy Club that if you could have an open mic bringer show situation.
Guest:I looked it up and I was like, well, what's...
Guest:This is a phone call.
Guest:Like, I don't need an agent.
Guest:I just called the number.
Guest:And he said, okay, we have a show.
Guest:You got to bring three friends or whatever.
Guest:They could sit in the audience.
Guest:And we have an opening June 12th.
Guest:And I hung up the phone and I was like shaking.
Guest:Like, I'm going to be on stage in New York City telling jokes.
Marc:And you probably talked to – you actually talked to Al Martin.
Marc:It was probably Al Martin who answered the phone.
Marc:And I'm so – Al Martin and Kerry Hoffman, the people that unleashed the bringer show –
Marc:On the culture of show business.
Marc:It's their fault.
Marc:Kerry Hoffman, the funniest pipe fitter in New York contest.
Marc:The funniest dentist in New York contest.
Marc:And it's so funny.
Marc:Bring nine friends and you can make a comedy record.
Guest:And we're going to charge them $75 each for drinks.
Guest:Oh, so awful.
Marc:So you had your date.
Guest:So I had my date, and I was shaking like a leaf.
Marc:Really?
Marc:And I started writing jokes.
Marc:That weird excitement?
Marc:Yeah, of like, oh man, this is happening.
Guest:Because I started, even in college, I had this job as a security guard where I would sit in my car outside of a...
Guest:You had a job as a security guard?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I would sit in my car in a housing development in the winter and just sit there.
Guest:Nothing happened.
Guest:It's the middle of like Windsor, New Jersey.
Guest:No foul play is happening here, but they needed a security.
Guest:So I would just sit there with a sandwich and my radio and a heater and I would run an extension cord from one of the homes into my car and keep it warm and eat my tuna hero and just sit there for hours.
Marc:And that's where you wrote?
Guest:And that's when I started writing.
Guest:I started writing and recording.
Guest:I would write jokes, because I'm sitting there talking to myself.
Marc:This is the job you were doing when you made the call to stand-up New York comedy club?
Guest:No, this is before I graduated.
Guest:This is like junior year of college.
Marc:So you just were writing jokes because you hadn't done a gig yet?
Guest:I hadn't done a gig yet, no.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:I'd never, no.
Marc:But you knew you wanted to, so that's where you would write jokes.
Guest:I would write jokes, and then I would come back and play the tape for my friends, and they thought it was awful.
Guest:They thought, like, what are you...
Guest:You're going crazy in your car by yourself.
Guest:I'm like, but this part's funny.
Guest:And they're like, come on.
Marc:You couldn't tell them the joke?
Guest:Let's go to a party.
Guest:Let's go get high.
Guest:No, because I was recording it.
Guest:I was getting them down.
Guest:I don't know what I was doing.
Marc:I had no idea.
Marc:You hold the order up of you talking to yourself in a car?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'd listen back.
Guest:That's pretty good.
Marc:You're your own audience.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You're just playing, that's funny.
Guest:Like a psycho, like just by myself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And yeah, so I just recorded and stuff.
Guest:But I was kind of like writing jokes.
Guest:So even though I hadn't performed before that June 12th show, I knew I needed jokes.
Guest:I knew I had to kind of come in.
Marc:You knew that much about this job.
Guest:Yes, I'd never been to a comedy club, but I watched them on TV.
Marc:Right, and you're like, apparently for this job, you gotta be prepared with something to say when you get to the job.
Guest:Yeah, you should probably, yeah.
Marc:So which friends did you bring?
Guest:That I know.
Guest:I brought my friend Jason, who's a madman, and the girl I was living with, Janine, and a couple other friends.
Guest:and they sat in the uh in the audience and i did my little jokes and uh you know you quickly what i didn't know is that they they you run out of jokes quick so quick yeah you what are you up there about a minute or two a minute or two and i'm out
Guest:Yeah, that's it.
Marc:That's all I prepared for.
Guest:I got one really good laugh off of my one joke, and then I don't remember the others.
Guest:And then I started sweating and got out of there.
Guest:Talked to Geraldo.
Guest:Yeah, was he there?
Guest:Watched Geraldo do his thing.
Guest:And Geraldo had his, do you remember his joke about Catholics and Protestants, Neil Sitstand?
Guest:uh-uh he had this funny joke about what's the difference between yeah neil it's just the one neils and one don't yeah yeah and then you do the irish guy these neiling bastards neil sit stand neil sit stand and then starts the whole war and i was like wow this guy's a genius yeah yeah he was kind of a a very bright guy he was really bright super smart yeah yeah too smart in a way yeah yeah it was a little too busy he was a lawyer
Guest:Harvard Law.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So sad, that guy.
Guest:So sad.
Guest:I always thought that he would be our kind of John Stewart, Bill Maher kind of thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And if you think of the timing, when Stewart leaves and then you have this really seasoned Hispanic
Marc:comedian yeah accessible to white people yeah he could have slid right in there it seemed like it was all set up he got rerouted by his own uh by addiction yeah rerouted i had no idea no not really not till way later like how deep in he was i just didn't know yeah i wasn't that close to him i didn't live in the same town right and by the time i heard about it i was like oh my god you know because like i remember one time i wanted to have him on and he was out here and
Marc:I don't know, he's talking funny.
Marc:Like, he got loopy.
Marc:Yeah, really?
Marc:Well, he got paranoid and weird.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, like, lack of sleep.
Marc:He would just go.
Guest:He would go on benders for days.
Marc:Were you guys friends then?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:No, I was tight with him the whole way.
Guest:But as these stories always go, even the people that are closest don't really know what's going on.
Guest:Right.
Guest:right and i would tell him repeatedly yeah just you know because he tried to get sober many times many times yeah and he had a couple close calls where he ended up in the hospital and i remember saying to him at one point just you know you're gonna crush me that's like oh if you die if you die yeah just so you know yeah uh i know you've got kids and there's more people that are important more important than i am yeah but just so you know i should go on record as saying it's gonna wreck me
Guest:if you and just to i don't know i didn't know how to tell him but he they get very he's real start having friends you don't know they start doing things you don't know and uh they do you mean they do yes oh yeah you're like who's that guy the weird looking guy yeah who's the guy that you just left my buddy yes that guy you know they always and that's always the guy that's there when you die and leaves
Marc:Totally, which is what happened.
Marc:Is it?
Guest:Yeah, he was in New Jersey and he was clean, he was doing well.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then he ran into some people he had partied with before.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they just showed up and had stuff on them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they left.
Guest:They left and he's alone in the hotel.
Guest:In a coma.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:In New Jersey.
Marc:I remember when I heard of Vinnie Brandt, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's a guy who went over there, found him probably.
Marc:Yeah, couldn't find him.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And went over to the hotel.
Marc:And they had to break the door down, I guess.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:So you knew and you tried and you didn't.
Marc:That's weird because everyone's got their own life.
Marc:You don't know the scope of it.
Guest:You really don't.
Guest:As much as we know, I mean, you know from doing this show, you've had friends probably that are really close to you that you never get to ask them questions until we're sitting in this scenario.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Right, well, you don't know their life.
Marc:I mean, there's a community thing that we all have.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, you know, certainly once we get old enough to have lives, you know, you gotta stay on top of that.
Marc:You gotta stay engaged and sort of like, yeah, we socialize with them, you know, once, three times a month.
Marc:We go out.
Marc:The kids know each other.
Marc:Whatever it is.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You gotta stay in it.
Guest:You got to.
Marc:Or else, you know, like, even if three months goes by and people are grownups, you're like, you did what?
Marc:You killed a man?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:When did that?
Marc:You did jail time?
Marc:How long has it been?
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah, it's a good point.
Guest:Whenever people are interviewed about the killer next door, well, of course, they always say we had no idea.
Marc:How would we know?
Marc:How would we know?
Guest:I'm busy.
Guest:The dishes are piling up.
Marc:We used to see him.
Marc:He looked weird.
Marc:He had a weird look about him when he was out in the yard.
Guest:I didn't make eye contact.
Guest:I want to get to the recycling and back in the house.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We were uncomfortable, but we had no idea he was collecting heads.
Right.
Marc:no yeah but i i did but the you don't know but the illusion is and i don't think it's an illusion i think it's sincere when you you know when you spend that much time like you know we as comics whoever your crew was yeah i mean you're out all night man you're i mean you know you're you're with them every night of the week your days are similar you wake up in the middle of the day because you've been out till four yeah eating and you know and doing the shows yeah
Marc:And, you know, you see each other like every fucking day for years.
Marc:And you eat late at night.
Marc:You talk about bits.
Marc:You talk about women.
Marc:You talk about, you know, whatever your dreams are, whatever this or that.
Marc:You talk about other comics.
Marc:But that bonding, that's a real thing.
Marc:So, like, you know each other.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But then, you know, all of a sudden it's like we have this assumption.
Marc:And I think it's real.
Marc:I think a lot of us know each other and we know each other from around.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, you know, you got to be part of someone's life to know their life.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:You can know somebody's essence.
Guest:Like I knew who you were.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Without knowing much about you.
Guest:You kind of knew what your vibe was, but you don't really know.
Marc:But you see each other every week.
Marc:You see people every week.
Marc:I guess that happens in real jobs, too.
Marc:Every day they go to work, it's like, that guy, I don't know.
Marc:I get him.
Marc:I don't need to talk to him.
Marc:So glad he doesn't work on this floor.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there's like this camaraderie, but also, you know, it was funny even just coming here.
Guest:It's like, look at, look at this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:After all this time.
Guest:He did all right.
Guest:I'm going to see.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm going to see Mark.
Guest:We both out here in this place.
Guest:We didn't even think about in 98.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And yeah, it's funny.
Guest:Like you're almost like survivors.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:It's true, man.
Marc:You know, because you do see people fall to the wayside.
Marc:You do see people die.
Marc:You do see people still struggling.
Marc:And, you know, it is a survival thing, you know.
Marc:And I don't, you know, and it didn't look good for me for a while.
Marc:You know, so.
Guest:Yeah, no, I mean, those moments, it's so much nicer.
Guest:I have friends that knew Jeff Garland really early in Chicago, and they don't have nice things to say because he seemed aggressive and mean and whatever.
Guest:I'm like, you met him when he's scratching and clawing trying to find his way.
Marc:And now he's still aggressive, but he hides the mean.
Guest:Yeah, but he's had success, so you calm down.
Guest:You're like, okay, it's going to be okay.
Marc:But that's a moment that you should always be grateful for, I think.
Marc:Because certainly for me and for anybody, really, it was definitely hard-earned.
Marc:It never came easy.
Marc:But there is that moment where you're like, all right, I've at least achieved the ability to make a living and not worry as much.
Marc:If you're lucky, you find a groove, you find a niche, you find...
Marc:All of us kind of cobbled together a survival in show business.
Marc:The first few years, you get a deal, you do this, you're on the road.
Marc:You're not saving money, really.
Guest:No, you're just getting by.
Marc:Yeah, and every time you had a little money, you're like, no, you got to hold on to that shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because this could all go away.
Marc:I saw what happened to What's-His-Name.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I'm not going to buy four cars and end up selling them.
Guest:I'm not going to base my life off this one good year.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But but yeah, you know, that moment where you're like, I'm going to be all right.
Marc:You know, like I'm old and, you know, I might not die broke.
Guest:Yeah, it's great.
Guest:And it's great to see.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, really.
Guest:And also and that frees you up, you know, watching from the outside.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This thing freed you up.
Guest:So I know it freed you up in a way that you could go and get that role on glow.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And also as a stand-up.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I mean, there's a sense of calm and confidence that you can walk in and be like, I can own this major role.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Which when you're desperate and fighting, maybe you get in your own way.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think that was mostly because of my own show that I was able to do for a few years in relative obscurity.
Marc:I've done a lot of the things I've always wanted to do in a way that no one's really paid attention to them.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Quiet.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm the same way.
Yeah.
Guest:Technically, it's on the resume.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But you can't underestimate or underplay the experience part of it.
Marc:Like, you know, doing my own show for four years, knowing going in the first year was going to be dicey and I didn't know how to do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But I was like, I've seen other guys, you know, bumble through this.
Marc:And the good thing for me is nobody watches the network I'm on.
Guest:For four years.
Marc:So I was quietly learning, getting a skill set.
Marc:How to do it.
Marc:And also because the podcast became successful, I didn't need to do anything else.
Marc:I really don't.
Marc:So yeah, you're right.
Marc:Once Glow came around, I'm like, it's like at that point before it came, I'm like, whatever happened.
Marc:I don't give a fuck.
Marc:Yeah, we'll see.
Marc:I honestly don't give a fuck.
Guest:Yeah, I'll take the meeting.
Marc:But you had some kind of major movie stuff.
Marc:I'd like to do some of the stuff you do in movies, but let's get to that later.
Marc:So you're working around the city, and then when did you get in at the cellar?
Marc:What were the hoops you had to jump through to get work in New York?
Marc:You were mostly working at Carrie's place in the comic strip?
Guest:yes exactly i was doing i was doing stand-up new york yeah comic strip yeah once in a while caroline's when you needed a tape yeah they had the tape right there comic strip had a tape too but always look like some sort of weird surveillance yeah that stationary fucking shot of the comic strip stage and everyone had that oh the bad lighting and yeah oh so brutal
Guest:But it was so much fun.
Guest:You were just doing it and trying to get good and just trying to get good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I knew that the cellar was like, I had a thing in my head like, you don't go to the cellar until you are good.
Marc:Yeah, you can sit at one of the other tables.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I didn't even go.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:No.
Marc:I just remember that movement of tables.
Marc:The corner table, and then there was like two or three tables with those comics.
Marc:Right.
Marc:The non-corner table people.
Yeah.
Guest:It's such a, it really, someone asked me like, a young comic asked me like, so how did you, like, how did you know you wanted to do it?
Guest:And it's like, like to get through like all those years of, I'm like, you don't, it just pulls you.
Guest:Otherwise, if you stopped at any point and said, does this make sense?
Guest:You wouldn't, you wouldn't do it.
Marc:You know, you really, if you, in your brain, there's, you don't have any choice.
Yeah.
Marc:No, you just go.
Marc:Yeah, it's like, what do you mean?
Guest:There's no evaluation.
Guest:I'm like, I'm a comedian.
Marc:It's a rare thing.
Marc:It's like, but not as rare as it used to be.
Marc:But, you know, that sort of like, I'm not thinking about anything else.
Marc:No.
Marc:It's completely consuming.
Guest:Completely.
Guest:You know, I quit.
Guest:Like I said, I quit for like eight months.
Guest:The girl I was with, her father passed.
Guest:And it was just a heady thing.
Guest:And I felt like I had to make money and take care of her.
Guest:And I just stopped going into the city.
Guest:And Geraldo would call me at my day job every day.
Guest:Like, what are you doing?
Guest:What are you doing?
Guest:I'm like, I just got some stuff I got to do.
Guest:I'll be back.
Guest:He would call me every single day.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Every day.
Guest:And in that time, in that eight-month time, I gained 30 pounds.
Guest:I'm playing video games with my friends, just drinking.
Marc:What are you doing for money?
Guest:I'm working at my mom's advertising.
Marc:Oh, that's when it happened, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm working there.
Guest:I don't know what I'm doing.
Guest:But I do know that I'm getting fat and I'm drinking beer and getting high and just doing that and trying to convince myself that this is okay because I'm making money and we'll have a life, I guess.
Guest:A zombie life.
Guest:And I remember laying on my sister's bed one day at a family party, and I said, am I funny anymore?
Guest:To who, the wall?
Guest:No, to her.
Guest:I could always make her laugh.
Guest:I'm like, am I even funny anymore?
Guest:She goes, yeah, you're always funny, but I don't know.
Guest:Are you having fun right now?
Guest:that's what she said yeah and i realized i've got to get back and i went back into the city and uh and that was it i was like i was literally doing the wrong thing that was your dark it was making me it was making me like sick the dark time working for your mom drinking beer getting high and getting fat just sitting around playing video games with your high school high school friends that's exactly what it was thinking this could be okay
Marc:Yeah, this is a life and you're with a woman.
Marc:So what happened?
Marc:You end up breaking up with her?
Guest:Yeah, we ended up splitting and then went back into the city and just was like, it was like a second confirmation that this is really the only thing I should be doing.
Marc:Geraldo would not stop pestering you?
Guest:He would not stop.
Guest:He would not stop.
Guest:And that was humbling because I've been doing it for a couple years and getting decent enough.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I would have to go.
Guest:I went back.
Guest:I could go.
Guest:At that point, I could kill on stage with whatever material I had.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And you took eight months off.
Guest:And they took eight months off and now came back and couldn't get on stage and had to go to the Boston comedies.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Bringer show like before, like not even the.
Marc:And Geraldo's work in the clubs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Geraldo's in.
Guest:And I had to go and eat shit for six months.
Guest:But I knew like, all right, I'll just get, I just got to go back to work and get.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Get strong.
Guest:Get back to it.
Guest:But it was hard to come back even at that point.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:It was hard.
Guest:Like you're weak.
Guest:But I knew once I came back, that was it.
Guest:And then I got a gig for Dewar Scotch, where I was hosting, basically trying to get young people addicted to Dewar Scotch.
Guest:And they needed a comedian to host and tell jokes.
Guest:And I made $700 for the week, and that's when I quit my job and jumped.
Guest:Because I was like, okay.
Guest:I just had in my head
Guest:I was pretty straight.
Guest:I was an artist, but I also knew I had to take care of my shit.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Because that was drilled into me.
Guest:Keep an eye on your business.
Guest:Don't just jump without anything.
Guest:So when I made that $700, I figured, well, it's more than I'm making doing
Marc:And you knew that you do this.
Marc:I can host.
Marc:You knew that, you know, you weren't going to do what I was doing.
Marc:You weren't going to push the envelope in a way that people don't like you.
Guest:What do you mean?
Guest:Like, is your act?
Marc:No, I mean, well, yeah, sure.
Marc:Like, you know, I think that it seems that you're disciplined around, you know, how you were going to do comedy.
Marc:was um you know was was likable i mean you weren't gonna you know go up there and challenge people to like you no that part of it no but that's just who you are yeah i know that's just too you know i was i guess no one really does that i'm a fucking idiot no there are a bunch of people that yeah no i don't like making people unhappy i don't making the audience work no i don't like this guy have more of a shit together yeah
Guest:I don't like offending them.
Guest:I make eye contact with everyone when I'm on stage.
Guest:I want everyone to like me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A hundred percent.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A hundred percent.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Before I was a comic, I was doing that.
Guest:I just always couldn't believe when I found out that someone didn't like me.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I was shocked.
Marc:How could that?
Guest:Like, yeah, me.
Marc:Well, not Maren.
Marc:He doesn't like anybody.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:My friend literally was like, well, you know, everyone's not going to like you.
Guest:And that really came as a surprise.
Yeah.
Marc:So yeah, so I was always just about trying to... So you kind of built it and you're doing the jobs that we all do, doing the TV shows we all do.
Marc:But then you sort of evolved, right?
Marc:And you did a lot of Big Tonight Show guy, right?
Guest:Yeah, I did a bunch of those.
Marc:With Leno.
Guest:With Leno.
Marc:A few Lettermans.
Marc:A few Lettermans.
Marc:Conans all the time.
Marc:Conan, a lot of Conans.
Marc:Yeah, a lot of Conans.
Marc:It was what we did in New York.
Marc:You did Conan.
Marc:You get that call from Paula, do you have anything ready?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And she would be honest.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Someone fell out tomorrow like, George Clooney could not.
Marc:I'm filling in for Clooney.
Marc:No, we're rearranging.
Guest:But you were like, that was like...
Guest:That was impressive to all of us that all of a sudden you were going in and you were a regular and sitting there talking to him.
Marc:Well, I wanted to do panel.
Marc:That was always my thing growing up.
Marc:I'd see these guys do panel.
Marc:It seemed to be a better way for me to work.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Because Richard Lewis used to do it.
Marc:Those guys on Letterman, like Larry Miller and Jay and all those guys.
Marc:You do panel, that meant you were one of the guys.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So I just became adept at that.
Marc:I could go in there.
Guest:I remember that.
Marc:Oh, I could go in there.
Marc:It's different than a stand-up spot, which you sort of do have to prepare.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But with panel, I could go in there, if she called me on a day's notice, with half-baked jokes.
Marc:Right.
Marc:With jokes that weren't full yet and that were funny enough to be conversational.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And still funnier than the other people on the show.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Sometimes, yeah.
Marc:I mean, I definitely had shit I was thinking about.
Marc:Stuff I was processing.
Marc:Because during Luna Lounge days, everything was sort of... I was halfway to jokes all the time.
Marc:I had things I was working on.
Marc:And then they'd kind of pressure you to really make it work.
Marc:And then I'd go on, and sometimes they wouldn't.
Marc:I mean...
Guest:But you did it regularly.
Marc:Yeah, seven out of 10 times, though, the first thing would always fall flat, and Conan would be like, oh, here we go.
Marc:I'd always say something where the audience would get nothing, and it just became a thing.
Marc:Nice way to alienate him right out of the gate.
Marc:In retrospect, I don't know if Smiley and him were setting me up.
Marc:He's going to do that thing.
Marc:We're going to just let him do this thing first.
Marc:He's going to get nothing, and then he'll struggle for the rest of it.
Marc:It'd be great.
Yeah.
Guest:But you, yeah, I remember we were all like, wow.
Guest:Yeah, you knew how to sit.
Guest:I didn't even know how.
Marc:How did he even know how to sit?
Marc:I'm slouching.
Guest:You crossed your legs, you had your cool boots sticking out.
Guest:I was like, this guy knows what he's doing.
Marc:Oh my God.
Marc:My impression of me was the opposite.
Marc:Like, why am I wearing those boots?
Marc:How come I'm not sitting up?
Marc:Of course.
Guest:I'm shopping for boots.
Marc:But how did you like, where do you think you really crossed over?
Marc:And because at some point, you know, you became a very, you know, kind of efficient headliner with, you know, long form bits that were very meticulously structured.
Marc:Was it, you know, was it opening for Seinfeld that did that?
Marc:That really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think meeting Seinfeld, no joke, was like, I always say that was like the big break.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I was doing stuff.
Guest:I'd had late night shots and I was doing it.
Guest:But, you know, you're still very confused.
Guest:And you don't know, you know, you're hanging out.
Guest:I'm looking at you.
Guest:I'm looking at Attell.
Guest:You're looking at all these different people that aren't really what I am.
Guest:Right.
Guest:They work differently.
Guest:They're living different lives.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Were you married yet?
Guest:No, I was with Cynthia.
Guest:And she was a comic.
Guest:And she was a comic.
Guest:And we just started when I met him.
Guest:Yeah, I think I met her for like a year.
Guest:What was your maiden name?
Guest:Corey.
Guest:Yeah, Cynthia Corey, right.
Guest:I remember her.
Guest:You're still married.
Guest:Yeah, 18 years.
Guest:at least a couple of years of like meeting her and meeting Jerry yeah that was it really it was like it was good because she was some grounding she was no she was no bullshit yeah and uh and she came from where I came from and we had this kind of connection and then meeting Jerry yeah
Guest:Just having him, first of all.
Guest:How'd you meet him?
Guest:At the cellar?
Guest:I was at Stand Up New York.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:This one week, I had two days in a row, I was on stage while he walked in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Remember he was kind of circling the clubs.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:He hadn't been on stage yet, but he was checking out everything.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:And he walked in two nights in a row at Stand Up New York, and from Stand Up New York, you can see through the window.
Guest:You can see who's at the bar.
Marc:Yeah, and you can see that fucking door when they stick their head in to the right because the club is so fucking narrow and stupidly designed at the time.
Marc:It was so dumb.
Marc:People would walk in.
Marc:You could see everyone in the fucking room no matter how they put the lights.
Marc:Everyone.
Marc:You could see Waves just getting up.
Marc:Everybody.
Marc:All the executives, whoever was there coming in the door, standing in the door, see them in the sound booths.
Guest:Fucking worst.
Guest:Yeah, and you're up there trying to survive.
Guest:It was really... It seemed so rough.
Guest:So he came in two nights in a row and I switched my material up because I saw him there.
Guest:And I was like, I don't want to think I just do the same thing.
Guest:Just stupid ideas.
Guest:But when I came off to the stage, he said... He pulled me aside and said, you're really funny.
Guest:And we started a conversation.
Guest:And just him, Seinfeld, right off the show, just give me that confirmation.
Guest:And I just...
Guest:stuck around him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then at the Comedy Cellar, you know, he didn't, all his guys were gone.
Guest:The people he came up with, they weren't hanging out.
Guest:So he knew Colin.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He didn't have friends like we had friends.
Marc:Like the comic strip friends.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They weren't Comedy Cellar friends.
Marc:He was a comic strip guy.
Marc:So it was Mark Schiff and, you know.
Marc:And Reiser.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:All those people.
Guest:And they'd all moved on.
Guest:So he's coming back and there's all these.
Guest:So I was like, just don't be annoying.
Guest:Don't be annoying.
Guest:And Colin was friends with him and I would sit with him and Jerry.
Guest:And it just kind of, I soaked in everything because he wrote like I wrote.
Guest:It was a confirmation that my way of working was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Was okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like that I sit and I like to write and I like to go on stage and then like rewrite it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he wasn't really tortured.
Guest:He was, you know what I mean?
Guest:He was closer to me in personality.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the way that he worked.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That really at that time gave me a confirmation like I'm doing the, there's validation that I can work this way and I can make it.
Marc:And that's interesting because I have like that sort of explain something about my reaction to you because I have the same reaction to him is that I don't have no idea who that fucking guy is.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I didn't I didn't necessarily resonate with comedy.
Marc:You know, I understood that he was a great technician and everything.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And now, you know, like I literally did not I didn't watch much Seinfeld.
Marc:I was not I didn't care about his stand up.
Marc:And it wasn't until I just watched that recent one where he goes back to the comic strip.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That I sort of got a sense of who he was.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And, you know, and I was right about him for me.
Marc:It's not my cup of tea.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, and just like, but, you know, you got to respect his craft and his talent and he's funny.
Marc:But the way he approaches, he literally says, I don't give a shit if they know who I am or like me.
Marc:I'm here to see if the joke works.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:He is.
Guest:He's like a scientist the way he goes after it.
Guest:But I don't, I don't, I felt like.
Guest:You're more revealing.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:I mean, you talk about marriage, about your frustration, but there was a, there was that great joke that was sort of a Seinfeld joke, but oddly one of.
Marc:One of the jokes of yours, I remember realizing that you were funny, was that thing about the pillow, the stains on the pillow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was our head leaking?
Marc:What's the joke?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Have you ever seen your favorite pillow?
Guest:It looks like a Civil War bandage.
Guest:Like a bandage from the Civil War.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But yeah, but you evolved into talking about, you know.
Guest:Can I tell you a funny story about that joke?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This is a name drop, but it's such a big name drop I want to tell it.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I did a gig for Clint Eastwood at his Mission Ranch.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I did a gig and they knew me, so they brought me in for this fundraiser.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there's no food at the end of the night.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we finished the thing and I said to them, is there any place you can get food?
Guest:The restaurant on the property is closed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He goes, I'll get you something.
Guest:Come on, let's walk around.
Guest:And Clint Eastwood and I, in the dark, this is up there in Carmel, walking across a gravel driveway, like Josie Wells.
Guest:And in the dark, Clint Eastwood says to me, you know, every time I go to bed at night, I think about your Civil War bandage joke.
Guest:LAUGHTER
Guest:Is that surreal?
Guest:I'm just like, that's it.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:I don't have to do anything else.
Marc:You succeeded.
Marc:You are.
Marc:You put a brain worm- Right in Clint Eastwood's head.
Guest:Oh, you live for those moments.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:But it was just a confirmation that-
Marc:But then he asked you to open for him and you've been like sort of his, you and Mario are like the guys, right?
Guest:Yeah, up until like the last five years.
Guest:I worked for him solid for like eight years.
Guest:And that's a good gig.
Guest:It's a great gig.
Guest:I mean, the audiences are amazing.
Marc:You're doing 20, 25, what?
Guest:20, 25, gorgeous theaters.
Guest:You're hanging with him, and you just learn, I just learned a lot about being a person, being a comedian.
Guest:He's a very...
Guest:He's very morally grounded.
Guest:He takes care of his stuff.
Guest:He doesn't, he's not a weirdo.
Guest:There's no like spinning off.
Marc:Not out of control.
Guest:Not out of control.
Marc:It's like, I'm not as dialed in.
Marc:He is the opposite of out of control.
Guest:Yeah, he really is.
Guest:So I learned a ton.
Guest:And that was like at its core, just being around him, you got things.
Guest:But just more as like the friendship of that comedian was super, super valuable.
Marc:I don't remember where we were.
Marc:We were at some hotel.
Marc:I think I was working in one room and you were opening for Jerry somewhere else.
Marc:Was that in Vegas somewhere?
Marc:Yeah, no, it was in Florida.
Marc:Oh, it was in Florida.
Guest:At the Hard Rock, I think.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You were playing the club and Jerry was playing the theater there.
Guest:It's the fucking worst.
Guest:It's a weird spot.
Marc:That fucking Hard Rock is the worst.
Guest:Walking from the hotel through that outdoor restaurant, Florida late night shit show to the club was ridiculous.
Marc:And I waited to do it.
Marc:I have family down there and I just put it off because I don't like performing down there for some reason.
Marc:And the audience was like, who the fuck are these people?
Marc:I got 12 fans there.
Marc:This is before I built my audience.
Marc:And the rest is like free tickets or I don't know what.
Guest:Yeah, I know, birthday parties.
Marc:You're just sweating up there.
Marc:You're just like sweating.
Guest:It's so hard.
Marc:I know.
Marc:It's like you do this for years and then you're going to hit those nights where it's like this isn't landing.
Marc:And I know from doing this that it's not going to.
Guest:I'm not riding this ship.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you get that sweat in the back of your neck where it's just that sweat of like, oh, this is like manual labor now.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And you've got five shows you have to do there.
Marc:I just got to get through the job.
Marc:I got to get through the job.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, that's a rough spot.
Guest:Yeah, and we had coffee.
Marc:We had coffee during the day.
Marc:Yeah, it was nice to see you.
Marc:And I think things turned for me and you.
Marc:So how did you develop the relationship with, like, because you did the informant, and then you showed up in that great...
Guest:Behind the Candelabra.
Guest:Yeah, I love that movie.
Guest:The Liberace movie.
Marc:The Liberace.
Marc:So good.
Marc:So good.
Marc:Those are Soderbergh movies, right?
Guest:Soderbergh.
Marc:And somehow he likes you.
Marc:He likes comics or what?
Guest:Yeah, well, that- Somehow, listen to me.
Marc:Still a little bit sticking the knife in.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't get it, but I guess that guy-
Guest:why does he like you what does he see in you yeah uh yeah he uh i auditioned i got that one of the rare times when i actually auditioned for something and got it yeah was the informant he was he uh he put a lot of comedians into that movie because he wanted the energy to be off kilter yeah it's such a weird story yeah and he said i want every comedian has their own quirky energy right and that will set a tone for the film interesting
Guest:And so I got that role, and then we just hit it off, and I just didn't suck.
Guest:Yeah, no, you're great.
Guest:And he put me in that, and he put me in the Nick, and worked on a couple things, and he's great.
Guest:I mean, talk about similar to the Seinfeld thing.
Guest:This is a very special guy who works all the time.
Guest:He just purely wants to.
Guest:Soderbergh is working on eight things all the time,
Guest:you leave him and you're just like, you just meet for a drink and you're like, I gotta do more.
Guest:What am I doing with my time?
Guest:Literally.
Guest:And so I just really stuck around and, you know, again, don't be annoying.
Guest:And, and he,
Guest:saw that I could act, and we just kind of, and he liked my stand-up, which was really, which is, you know.
Guest:That's nice.
Marc:I thought you were great in the behind the candelabra.
Marc:It was a weird part.
Marc:You were like, I can't remember, like a promoter or manager.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:Me and Dan Aykroyd played as managers.
Guest:I was his road manager.
Guest:He was his business manager.
Marc:Yeah, I just thought that movie was pretty inspired.
Marc:It's brutal.
Marc:Who are you talking to, Mumbles?
Yeah.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:It's one of those things where you just know that I'm involved in something that's good.
Guest:So many times you take gigs and you're like, I don't know how this is good.
Guest:But you know.
Marc:Matt Damon and Michael Douglas were just really fucking acting the fuck out of that thing.
Guest:So good.
Marc:Because both those roles are risky.
Marc:They're vulnerable.
Marc:They're mildly disturbing on an emotional level.
Marc:And they were so in it.
Guest:What was amazing, though, was watching them at this stage, both of them, such confidence in what they're doing, really knowing how to do it, that they weren't carrying this weight.
Guest:I was in a scene with Michael Douglas, and we're in the background, and it's really Matt's scene up front.
Guest:We're not even miked, but we're in our big Liberace get-ups.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Michael Douglas, like Soderbergh's known for doing one take, maybe two, then moving on.
Guest:And it's going three, four takes.
Guest:And Michael Douglas in his Liberace voice in the middle of the scene turns to me and says, he's doing a lot of takes.
Guest:I really got to take a dump.
Guest:Why is he deciding to run this one long?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And Matt, too.
Guest:Matt, at one point, we're all sitting at the table.
Guest:It's a very emotional scene where he's being... He feels like they're breaking up.
Guest:And Matt's sitting there on his Blackberry.
Guest:He's making jokes and stuff.
Guest:And I'm just watching him.
Guest:I'm amazed by these guys.
Guest:And, okay, we're going to roll.
Guest:Matt puts his phone under the napkin and just, boom.
Guest:All of a sudden, from this joking around, hanging out, to tears...
Guest:pulling your heart out tearing at your heart and he's breaking up with this guy and he's hurt and he's vulnerable and he's and then cut okay hey back to making jokes kidding they are so they know like what you were saying how you learned after four years and then going you started to get a it's interesting that douglas stays in it yeah and and damon can go in and out of it yeah fascinating
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I remember I heard a quote.
Guest:It wasn't on that set, but I think it was an interview at the same time where Michael Douglas said when he was younger, he was like all like, you know, you had to really be balled up in your emotion and you had to own it and feel it.
Guest:And he said, because the camera knows when you're lying.
Guest:Right.
Guest:The camera knows.
Guest:You better be honest and really know it.
Guest:And then Michael Douglas said, it may be able to tell when most people are lying, but I don't think it can tell when I'm lying.
Guest:I'm an actor.
Guest:And then he let all that emotional shit go, and he knew I can act.
Guest:It lightened him up in a way.
Guest:Oh, that's nice.
Guest:Isn't that cool?
Marc:Yeah, man.
Marc:But you were in Chris's movie and analyzed that.
Guest:That was my first movie ever.
Guest:what would you do what'd you do i played in a jewelry store de niro's trying to go straight yeah and uh he's he takes a job he's trying to do these straight jobs after he left the mafia and he uh i play the a guy shopping for his engagement ring and i was with him for the whole day but that was the first movie i ever got and uh harold ramus directed it yeah and i went for the thing and i get a call back yeah and i'll
Guest:Okay, I'm hit with my little scene.
Guest:And he says, okay, so we're going to go in.
Guest:You're going to go in.
Guest:You're going to read.
Guest:You'll read the part of whatever with Bob and the thing.
Guest:And we walk in, and it's De Niro.
Guest:I thought Bob, the assistant, the intern.
Guest:And I walk in, there's De Niro standing there with a script.
Guest:For my callback of the first movie ever.
Guest:I'm like, holy shit.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And then I start doing it and I'm like really dialed in.
Guest:I'm like, okay, got it.
Guest:And De Niro's going off script and he's fumbling.
Guest:He's not like improvising.
Guest:He can't find his way.
Guest:He's screwing up my audition.
Guest:Literally in the middle of a tissue from I'm with a god to who's this asshole?
Yeah.
Guest:I had to ruin my shot.
Guest:But I got it.
Marc:I got it.
Marc:Was it fun?
Marc:You were on set with him all day?
Guest:Yeah, the whole day.
Guest:After every take, they'd say cut, and a hair and makeup person would come on him like koala bears and just start going to work on him.
Guest:I'm just standing on the other side of this jewelry counter.
Guest:yeah yeah watching this yeah and so i just started making jokes about my hair yeah my hair how's my hair how how my nails how and it's after like the fourth time of that happening to you i was like this guy really is worried about his hair i want to go take a look at his someone's got to take a look at this this guy's really concerned about he thought you were serious no he was starting to bust my balls back do you stand character in between takes
Guest:Now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now.
Guest:That's funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So, you do a lot of guest shots on stuff, I can see that, and stand-up stuff.
Marc:You had that one show that you really put a lot of effort and work into, that marriage ref thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It seemed to- Seinfeld's only failure.
Marc:You tried and tried, and it didn't quite work.
Marc:It didn't come together.
Guest:No, it didn't.
Guest:How many episodes did you do?
Guest:We did two seasons.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, probably 20.
Marc:What was the problem?
Marc:I remember watching, and it's sort of like, what is a show exactly?
Guest:Yeah, that's exactly it.
Marc:You had an idea, and then you're like, how do we integrate celebrities into it?
Guest:It was a lot of moving parts.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It was part reality show, part talk show, part game show.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It really never landed on exactly what it was, but that was okay.
Guest:It was supposed to be this little quiet Sunday night family show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Taking people with their real problems and their real funny marital stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:At that time when we were putting together, Leno's show craps out on NBC.
Guest:So there's 10 o'clock open on every night of the week that NBC has to fill.
Marc:The one they did to counterbalance Conan?
Marc:Before Conan.
Guest:The 10 o'clock primetime show before the Tonight Show.
Marc:What a fucking clusterfuck that time was on television.
Guest:What a mess.
Guest:Huh?
Guest:Totally.
Guest:What a dumb thing to do.
Guest:You have the late show, then you take the old late show guy and you put him before the new guy at 10 o'clock.
Guest:Doesn't work out.
Guest:That crap's out.
Guest:So they have to fill 10 o'clock.
Guest:And they come to Jerry and they say, 10 o'clock could be yours on Thursday night.
Guest:Well, this isn't the quiet little Sunday show we thought it was going to be, but it's pretty tempting.
Guest:It was a big mistake because then all of the marketing...
Guest:And Jerry also didn't want to be front and center of the show either.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But now it's NBC in their wisdom.
Guest:Seinfeld's return to Thursday nights.
Guest:Jerry Seinfeld's back.
Guest:And they start advertising the shit out of it during the Olympics.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they're just shoving it down people's throat.
Guest:And even when they're... I remember watching the bobsled during the Olympics.
Guest:And they break out and they're like...
Guest:Jerry Seinfeld's back.
Guest:They weren't even showing me in any of the promos.
Guest:It was all Jerry.
Guest:It was all comedy.
Guest:You'd see my hands at the end of the promo.
Guest:My wife was furious.
Guest:But thank God, because the critics came after it like, this isn't Seinfeld part two.
Guest:This is this weird show.
Guest:Who knows what it is?
Guest:The critics were pretty rough on it.
Guest:Luckily, because the light wasn't on me, I didn't get beaten up.
Guest:You swinged away?
Guest:Yeah, I was just kind of like, okay, but it's a huge, it was a big thing.
Guest:Jerry didn't like that it was all kind of coming down.
Guest:He kind of stepped back in the second season.
Guest:There's this other executive producer who is a shit show fighting with the network.
Guest:The network hated her.
Guest:You know, the first season we went through Jerry's Rolodex of Madonna and Larry Dave and all.
Guest:And now we've got, you know, road comics and stuff doing the show, which is really what it should have been.
Guest:It should have just been funny people talking with these married people.
Guest:Very funny.
Guest:Married people crave that kind of a thing.
Guest:They miss it.
Guest:But it was just a shit show.
Guest:Well, you survived it.
Guest:Yeah, it was good.
Guest:And, you know, look, it was good for me.
Guest:The exposure was insane.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I had no control over it.
Guest:So you do all right on the road by yourself.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I have a good audience.
Marc:Yeah, it's great.
Marc:And then, you know, you got a few of the specials and stuff you did.
Marc:And now what the book is mostly essays about being a grown up.
Guest:It's all about, it's about everybody.
Guest:It's about family.
Guest:It's about everyone in your life.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:As a comedian, I've been watching everybody in your life.
Guest:And it's broken down by mom, dad, brothers, sisters, fathers, cousins, uncles.
Marc:So these are actually bits?
Marc:Funny essays all about that.
Marc:Or there's new essays?
Guest:No, there's new essays mostly.
Guest:It's called Your Dad Stole My Rake?
Guest:Your Dad Stole My Rake and Other Family Dilemmas.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:It's my first book, yeah.
Marc:Oh, congratulations.
Marc:And tell me about, I didn't realize that you were in the driver's seat at Live From Here.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's the new name for Prairie Home Companion, which is now populated with younger people.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:A new host.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Garrison has been put out to pasture for reasons.
Guest:Well, he left before the kerfuffle.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But they changed the name because of that.
Marc:Oh, did they?
Marc:And how's the ratings of that thing?
Marc:Still good?
Marc:Yeah, they're good.
Guest:What's the name of the new host?
Guest:Chris Thiele.
Marc:Oh, he's a mandolin player.
Guest:Amazing folk artist.
Marc:Yeah, it seems like it's all a bunch of folky country people.
Guest:We've had John Prine on.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Yeah, it sounds great.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:It's like a revival.
Marc:I was about to say, I don't know why I haven't been on it.
Marc:I realized I'm not a musician of that.
Guest:You can come on it as a comic.
Guest:I would love for you to do it.
Guest:I'm in charge of the comedy.
Guest:Where's my time?
Guest:I would love for you to do it.
Marc:Would you do it?
Guest:Would you travel to do it?
Marc:To Minnesota?
Guest:Well, it moves around.
Guest:It's always in a different spot.
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Guest:You would?
Guest:Yeah, I've got stuff that'll work.
Guest:I would love for you to do it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:We've had great people, Rory Scovel, Colin Quinn.
Guest:Yeah, I'd love to do it.
Guest:Oh, it's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I put, we have a comedian that has a spot, and then I'm in charge of the writing.
Marc:And you still got some of the old timers there, huh?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Doing the radio show scripts?
Guest:The two guys.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:I'm in charge of the scripts now.
Marc:All new characters, though?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I always loved the show.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I always listened to it once it was on if I came upon it.
Guest:If you stumbled across it, which is the way it is now.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, and you just hear, and I was just in awe of that Garrison created this world.
Guest:But I always had this sneaking suspicion, like, what would that be like in the hands of comedians?
Guest:Like, it's funny-ish.
Guest:It's humorous.
Guest:It's a humorist's take on it.
Marc:But also, he had an arc in his own sort of, you know, he had created this world, and you stay within the world.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:And the pace was what it was.
Marc:It was a comfortable pace.
Marc:It wasn't, you didn't have to be like, oh, what's he want from me?
Marc:You could hear it in the background and be like, oh, that's nice music.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:Oh, that's kind of funny.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Marc:Like Guy Noir.
Guest:Yeah, Guy Noir.
Guest:And he would do the news from Lake Wobegon.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And so when I got the gig, I was so... You did my radio show at Largo, the Come to Papa show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember you said, are you doing okay?
Guest:You always get worried when a guy starts doing a scripted show.
Guest:On the radio.
Guest:On the radio.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm like, yeah, no, I'm okay.
Guest:And I was kind of like, and it was funny.
Guest:I was writing scripts.
Guest:I was doing my version of Prairie Home Companion, but with all you guys, which was so funny.
Guest:Everybody was really funny.
Guest:We'd have music and stuff, not as good, but we would have funnier stuff.
Guest:So when Chris approached me through Flanny at Largo, I was doing exactly what they needed.
Guest:For five years, I was writing music.
Guest:Scripts.
Guest:Radio scripts.
Guest:Sketches, radio scripts.
Guest:I knew exactly what had to be done, and I would watch Chris in that first season when Garrison was gone, and he's floating out there in these horrible five-minute-long, not funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was death.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And I came in and I was like, we're going to make it funny.
Guest:Let's come on.
Guest:As a comedian, I wasn't writing like Garrison.
Guest:I had a folksy kind of take to things, but I want laughs.
Guest:I want laughs.
Marc:And it's a weekly gig for you?
Guest:It's every week, yeah.
Guest:And I appear on it every week.
Guest:I do this segment called Out in America, where I report from wherever I am.
Guest:And either I'll record it or I'll go to a public radio station where they do Marketplace or something.
Marc:Do the ISDN?
Guest:Yeah, while they're live.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Or I'll be in Chicago doing it.
Guest:That's the best way to do it, but I can't get it.
Guest:I'm gigging, so I can't do it every week.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Do you have a staff of writers?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Yeah, there's like four writers that submit stuff.
Guest:I took it over in September.
Guest:The beginning of it was like, I couldn't believe I was standing doing a monologue where Garrison Keillor did Lake Wobegon.
Guest:It was big for me.
Marc:Isn't it Minnesota?
Marc:Didn't it used to be?
Guest:Yeah, it was mainly out of St.
Guest:Paul.
Marc:So you don't have to travel?
Guest:No, if I can get there, I do, but I've got my tour.
Guest:I've got, you know, I'm doing stand-up.
Guest:You're touring now?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What's a tour?
Guest:Always touring.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:It's a non-stop.
Guest:I stop.
Guest:You do?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Like a band?
Marc:I mean, I got to get a new hour.
Marc:I did the special last year, and I just did five European dates with about 40, 45 new, and then some stuff that no one had ever heard before, so it was new to them, but not to me necessarily.
Marc:I probably should have toured the old hour.
Marc:I didn't do it right, really, in terms of I just didn't want to do it.
Marc:But I had that hour that I eventually taped, and I could have toured it for another three or four months, like really late into it before it was released, but I didn't.
Guest:But you won't go out with any of that material while you're working on the new stuff?
Marc:Not much.
Marc:I tried to not do that because it just seemed to be like, you know, but maybe I'm wrong about that.
Guest:I just can't.
Guest:Well, first, I can't stop touring.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It's what I do.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I'm also very conscious of this is these people in Cincinnati's Saturday night out, and this is the one time they're going to see me.
Guest:I can't just give them an hour of new shit.
Marc:No, but I mean, I'm not doing new shit that doesn't work.
Guest:Yeah, but right.
Guest:But isn't there like a slow evolution of that happening?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I'll throw in a bit.
Guest:I'll just throw a bit in to get through the hour.
Marc:But this time, I really felt like this is the first time where I'm doing bigger rooms.
Marc:I'm selling...
Marc:I mean, in England, I sold over 2,000 tickets, and I have to assume that a lot of them know me from this or that, but they had to have watched a new special.
Marc:Maybe that's wrong.
Guest:But do you ever see people after... This is the modern-day puzzle, by the way, but do you ever talk to people after the show?
Marc:They wanted to see the bit that they... No, yeah, I get that, and maybe I'll learn my lesson, but it really becomes sort of a challenge for me that knowing that possibly...
Marc:You know, that they will have seen it.
Marc:It's like it kills it a little.
Guest:I know it does.
Guest:But I could watch you do jokes that I know really well.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And enjoy it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And if I can, then the secretary in Peoria is going to be into it, too.
Marc:Yeah, I guess maybe I'll learn my lesson, and I did it in Europe, but I definitely gave them, like, I didn't do the Rolling Stones bit, I didn't do these big bits that I've been doing, but I brought back a couple of bits that no one had seen, because I'd only done them on TV once or twice, that were long bits that I worked months on, and a couple really old ones that you really had to dig deep to find them.
Marc:But they were great bits.
Marc:And then I did like 40 minutes of totally new shit.
Marc:And then I riffed.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But you're right.
Marc:I might have disappointed some people.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I wasn't saying that.
Guest:But I do feel like... I don't know.
Guest:It's a real... We're definitely... I'm sure you've talked about this a lot, but there are a lot of bad specials out right now.
Guest:There are a lot of people rushing material out because they think that they have to do all new stuff all the time.
Guest:And you know... But I'm not going to do that.
Guest:No, I'm not saying you are.
Guest:No, I know.
Guest:But I find it for myself.
Guest:I'm always going between this thing of, am I being lazy because I just want to kill this night, this Saturday night?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Should I be pushing it?
Guest:It's all got to be new.
Guest:I mean, I'm not that good enough to put out completely new stuff all the time.
Marc:I know, but also it's a difference in how you and I work.
Marc:Like I was telling you, when I start to build material, I can't do it bit by bit.
Marc:It's got to start to take shape as a whole.
Marc:So that's like I was telling you, I'll go do hours, do a residency at Steve Allen, or start working out hours here in town, or go to smaller clubs.
Guest:You're thinking of it as this hour and a half thing, not as a- Well, yeah, it's gotta be a through line to it.
Marc:I'll start out just, I don't, this is the difference between writing like Seinfeld and writing like me, is that I'm talking through things.
Marc:So I'll sell a cheap ticket to my fans and say, don't expect much, I'm processing.
Marc:And I'll have them sit there for an hour and a half, two hours to start to find my way through this bunch of shit.
Guest:That's a valuable thing.
Guest:I'm just so nervous about, you know, as a comic, like a joke can sometimes get really good four years in.
Marc:No, I agree.
Guest:Like, that's why I feel like people are rushing shit.
Guest:And you're not one of these.
Guest:I'm not saying this about you.
Marc:No, but like, that's what I was telling you about Conan is that I could go in with half of it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then like, you know, eventually it's sort of like a tag comes a year or two later and you're like, all right.
Marc:So what?
Marc:No one saw it on Conan.
Marc:Now it's a full joke.
Guest:So do you feel, do you feel a need?
Guest:Like, do you have, uh, do you feel pressured to put out more specials now?
Guest:No, I don't care.
Guest:When it's ready, it's ready.
Marc:I want to do one and it's nice to know because it kind of puts a fire under your ass.
Marc:But what do I care?
Marc:It's hard to get people to watch it.
Marc:It's just going to be one million specials.
Guest:I'd rather it be good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The last one I did was there was an evolution I think is the best one I've ever done.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I've done two for Netflix and one for Epix.
Marc:And this is clearly in a direction where I have a lot more control.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I can't rush the material.
Marc:I don't know where it comes from or why.
Guest:That's my thing.
Guest:That's the essence of it.
Marc:Yeah, and right now I'm like, I don't know what the fuck I'm going to do.
Marc:When I took these dates in Europe, I'm like, what the fuck am I going to do?
Marc:And then all of a sudden stuff started to happen.
Marc:And now I've been away from it for two weeks, and I don't know if it's gone forever.
Guest:Right?
Guest:Now it's totally lost.
Yeah.
Guest:But I do feel like that's important because I do feel like, and it's hard because there is pressure to have new content and stuff.
Marc:For me, it's just sort of like you want the opportunities.
Marc:It's not even like I feel like I got to get content out there.
Marc:It's just sort of like, well, Netflix will probably do another one with you.
Marc:I'm like, really?
Marc:Oh, shit.
Marc:So how much are you going to pay me money?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then you're like, all right.
Marc:You know, whether it's out there or not, whatever.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:You know, like people are, you know, at this point, I'm sort of like, well, you know, if they don't stick with me, whatever.
Marc:I can't be because like that desperation you talk about being alleviated.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Once you find some success for yourself.
Marc:I mean, you can find it again.
Marc:It's like, should I be tweeting more?
Marc:Should I be on Facebook?
Marc:I don't even use Facebook.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Is Instagram important?
Marc:When can I get another special?
Marc:Because I don't want people to forget that I exist.
Marc:You know, I'm on this every day.
Marc:Are people still listening to this?
Marc:I don't know if it is.
Marc:So like, you're going to find another place for the desperation and act that way.
Marc:So like, you know, I want to try to, I want to try and stay in the like, I don't really give a fuck, but I still want to work, you know?
Guest:I always work from fear, 100% from fear and panic, which is good.
Guest:I guess.
Guest:But I feel like when people ask, so when's the next hour?
Guest:When's the next hour?
Guest:And everywhere you go, every comic, I'm just working on my next hour.
Guest:I'm just working on my next hour.
Guest:It's like, how about you just work on your act?
Guest:And when the act is great, then you'll do a special.
Marc:That's the way I really think.
Marc:And I've been fortunate in that it has revealed itself to me fairly consistently.
Marc:I've churned through a lot of shit.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But then I started to realize that there's some shit that I let die that I'm like, why am I not doing that?
Marc:Like one of the things I brought out in Europe was like, I did this bit that took me six months to fucking make it.
Marc:And it's great.
Marc:It's like, it's a long bit.
Marc:And it's like, it's just got a beautiful arc to it.
Marc:And it was right when I started doing longer form stuff that had structure.
Marc:And I did it once on like the John Oliver comedy thing.
Marc:And then I'm like, got to retire that now.
Marc:And they're like...
Marc:No.
Marc:I'm like, no one even saw that fucking thing.
Marc:So I go to Europe and I'm like, I'm putting that thing back together.
Guest:Good.
Guest:Yeah, that's great.
Guest:It's a great bit.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:No, I know.
Guest:There is that kind of, it's almost, I always feel like, who do you think you are, Papa, that you think everyone in this room has seen that bit?
Marc:That's the other thing.
Marc:When no one knew who I was, it's like, no, no, no, I've already done that on TV.
Marc:It's like-
Marc:So what?
Guest:Right, exactly.
Marc:No one cares.
Guest:You know how many people are out there?
Marc:I know now.
Marc:Billions.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Watching this stuff.
Guest:It's like they should see your stuff.
Marc:And also after you've been around for a while, you don't know what the hell they know you from or why they're there.
Marc:No.
Marc:Or whether they get Netflix or anything.
Guest:No, exactly.
Marc:And that's the other argument.
Marc:It's like, I think there's an argument to mix it up.
Marc:I think you should always show up with at least 20, 30 new.
Marc:absolutely right no you should not be late the era of just riding out your act for your career is long gone and is you know we couldn't do it I don't have that I feel bad I can't sell it no you can't fake it that much alright buddy this was really nice Mark it was great great talking to you you too and congratulations I think that's an interesting and fun show that live from here and I hope the book does well thank you good to see you man you too
Marc:That was great.
Marc:I loved getting to know Tom after knowing him for 15, 20 years.
Marc:I'm going to try to play some guitar in the new garage.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Hear that?
Marc:Hear that little... That little... That's the sound of time travel.
Marc:You hear that buzz?
Marc:Hear that?
Marc:That is the sound...
Marc:Of like 1957.
Marc:A through line.
Marc:A tapped in frequency.
Marc:A tube hum.
Marc:From an old Fender.
Marc:And that is straight in.
Marc:Gibson 335 Humbuckers.
Yeah.
Marc:Kinda in tune, right?
Marc:Kinda?
Guest:guitar solo
Marc:Boomer lives!