Episode 911 - Scott Thomson / Tom Rhodes

Episode 911 • Released April 29, 2018 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it i am looking at a

00:00:22Marc:beautiful sunset out my window of the westbury hotel in dublin ireland right now oh look there's a seagull i wonder if that's the one that shit on my window before i got here i haven't talked to you since uh when is it thursday and a lot has gone on a lot has gone on in the world bill cosby's going to prison that was a long time coming

00:00:42Marc:I don't know if he's going to prison.

00:00:43Marc:They might lock him to his couch.

00:00:45Marc:I don't know what's happening, but it was pretty spectacular.

00:00:49Marc:A bit of justice there.

00:00:51Marc:Still in Dublin.

00:00:52Marc:And I want to thank everybody for coming out to Vicar Street.

00:00:55Marc:That was a great show.

00:00:56Marc:I love that place.

00:00:57Marc:I love that club.

00:00:58Marc:I love the people in Ireland.

00:01:00Marc:Can I say that?

00:01:02Marc:I'm honest about it.

00:01:04Marc:I feel very comfortable here.

00:01:05Marc:Out of all the places I've been, and this is not to knock Oslo or Stockholm or London even.

00:01:12Marc:It's just something about the Irish.

00:01:13Marc:I just feel very comfortable.

00:01:16Marc:I think they're very authentic people.

00:01:18Marc:They're very nice people.

00:01:19Marc:And I like it here.

00:01:22Marc:I like it so much that this was my plan, that if I had to leave the country, Ireland is always the place I felt like coming.

00:01:29Marc:And I got no connection to it genetically.

00:01:31Marc:I can't claim any citizenship.

00:01:34Marc:I like the people.

00:01:37Marc:And I've always been mildly obsessed with the Irish, to be honest with you.

00:01:41Marc:Back in college, all those years, I started in Boston.

00:01:44Marc:I performed for the American Irish at the beginning of my career.

00:01:47Marc:That was my baptism in fire.

00:01:50Marc:It was an Irish fire that I was baptized in.

00:01:54Marc:Probably, you know, not right off the boat, Irish, but a few generations in.

00:01:58Marc:But my relationship with the Boston Irish was always a little tense for me.

00:02:05Marc:I'm sure they didn't give a fuck or a fuck.

00:02:08Marc:But for me, it was.

00:02:10Marc:And then when I come back here, when I come to Ireland, I see the source.

00:02:13Marc:I come to the source of the American Irish.

00:02:17Marc:There's many more American Irish people than there are Irish people, Irish-Irish, in the world, I think.

00:02:24Marc:I believe that is true.

00:02:25Marc:They have spread.

00:02:27Marc:But I see them.

00:02:28Marc:They look familiar to me.

00:02:29Marc:I from being living in Boston all those years, I come here and they're just there's a difference.

00:02:34Marc:There's a difference in vibe.

00:02:36Marc:And I'm not being judgmental.

00:02:38Marc:I'm just acknowledging it there.

00:02:40Marc:It seems that over a couple of generations in the States, it activated some sort of menace and intensity that I don't feel here.

00:02:48Marc:But then again, it's limited.

00:02:50Marc:I may be romanticizing.

00:02:52Marc:I guess what I'm saying is the Irish are okay with me, and they're a great audience, and they're very pleasant people.

00:02:57Marc:I've had a nice time.

00:02:59Marc:I did things.

00:03:00Marc:Did I mention he's on the show today?

00:03:01Marc:I guess I should do that.

00:03:02Marc:Scott Thompson is on the show, and I haven't done Scott Thompson yet.

00:03:07Marc:I mean, it's sort of amazing.

00:03:08Marc:I think I've only got one more kid in the hall.

00:03:11Marc:Scott Thompson's on the show today, as is a little talk with my buddy Tom Rhodes.

00:03:18Marc:My old friend Tom Rhodes stopped by just to chat.

00:03:22Marc:Oh, my God, I'm a little disheveled.

00:03:23Marc:I'm a little fat.

00:03:24Marc:My tummy's hanging over my pants.

00:03:28Marc:You can't eat bread with every meal and expect to win.

00:03:31Marc:You just can't.

00:03:32Marc:Why did I let myself?

00:03:33Marc:Doesn't matter.

00:03:33Marc:I'm not going to do this with you people.

00:03:35Marc:Not today.

00:03:36Marc:I'm going to tell you about the amazing trip we've been having.

00:03:38Marc:So we got here.

00:03:40Marc:The Book of Kel, folks.

00:03:42Marc:that old manuscript they got over there trinity college they reached out to me on twitter and we went over there and we went to the book of kell exhibit and got walked through by someone who knows what they're talking about and learned a little bit about that the whole book is there but for some reason they're just going to let you see a couple pages you just assume that the rest is under there you see a couple of the nice uh hand done manuscript pages of the book of kell which is a very old

00:04:06Marc:Book of the Four Gospels.

00:04:08Marc:Got a little history.

00:04:10Marc:And then we went into the old library at Trinity College, The Long Room, which is the most dramatic and gorgeous wooden room full of books I've ever seen in my life.

00:04:19Marc:Learned a little bit about that.

00:04:21Marc:Stood next to a statue of Jonathan Swift.

00:04:24Marc:Thought about Yates.

00:04:26Marc:Thought about Joyce.

00:04:27Marc:Thought about Swift.

00:04:29Marc:A lot of good shit come from around here.

00:04:32Marc:A lot of deep stuff.

00:04:33Marc:A lot of, you know, cut into the bone type of business come out of Ireland.

00:04:39Marc:I did not buy a tweed jacket.

00:04:40Marc:I almost did.

00:04:41Marc:I looked at the tweed jackets.

00:04:42Marc:I thought about myself in a tweed jacket.

00:04:44Marc:And I thought about myself in a Irish cable knit sweater.

00:04:48Marc:But I didn't buy either of those because I live in fucking Los Angeles.

00:04:53Marc:And the need is limited for the tweed and the heavy sweater.

00:04:58Marc:You dig?

00:04:58Marc:I think I covered a lot of stuff here.

00:05:00Marc:I would like to bring... I'd like to share my conversation with Tom Rhodes with you now.

00:05:06Marc:He has a podcast, Tom Rhodes Radio.

00:05:09Marc:Get that wherever you get podcasts or go to TomRhodesRadio.com.

00:05:13Marc:I think he does another one called Smart Camp as well.

00:05:16Marc:But this is...

00:05:18Marc:This is me talking to my old buddy Tom Rhodes.

00:05:22Marc:Tom Rhodes back in the garage.

00:05:25Marc:This would be the original garage.

00:05:33Marc:But where you been, man?

00:05:34Marc:I was watching.

00:05:35Marc:I look at the Instagram and, you know, it's like, you know, all of a sudden you're in Paris.

00:05:39Marc:You're like, where are you now?

00:05:41Guest:I love Paris.

00:05:42Marc:Yeah.

00:05:43Guest:It's great.

00:05:43Guest:I've been doing the international circuits for like 20 years.

00:05:45Guest:Yeah.

00:05:46Guest:And I have a long history with Paris.

00:05:47Guest:Yeah.

00:05:48Guest:I was in Mongolia last year.

00:05:49Marc:Now, but when you do these shows like in Paris and Mongolia, I mean, who are the audience?

00:05:54Marc:They're English speaking because unless you've done a lot of homework over the last few years, I'm assuming you're not speaking native Mongolian or even French, Tom.

00:06:03Guest:uh no uh well i mean like in mongolia and ulan bataar and paris the it was all locals yeah you know it's mostly um french people in paris mostly mongolians and who speak english who speak english and love english language comedy um you know a lot of gigs i do like tokyo will be half expats

00:06:28Guest:And half Japanese people.

00:06:31Guest:In China, it'll be mostly expats with a handful of Chinese people.

00:06:36Guest:Switzerland is... It's usually like half and half.

00:06:39Marc:Is this satisfying to you?

00:06:41Marc:Is this something that you enjoy doing because you like to travel or is it because you have to do it?

00:06:46Guest:Well...

00:06:50Guest:I do it because I love to travel and I get off on learning about places.

00:06:58Guest:Aside from the used record stores, I like to go to used bookstores.

00:07:02Marc:Yeah.

00:07:03Marc:You're sitting in one.

00:07:04Guest:Need anything?

00:07:05Guest:Yeah, sure.

00:07:07Guest:Are you getting rid of all that stuff?

00:07:09Guest:Not all of it.

00:07:10Guest:Probably some.

00:07:11Guest:I'm surprised there's so many self-help books.

00:07:13Guest:Is there?

00:07:14Guest:I'm kidding.

00:07:16Guest:You didn't even know it.

00:07:17That's crazy.

00:07:18Marc:yeah i mean that was so cute and innocent is there i got a couple recovery books here but those are history recovery books that's uh pass it on bill wilson and the aa message and the language of the heart pass it on is the history of aa wow out from the you know the two dudes the dude that made it wow yeah but no more you got nothing no more drunken for you no more drinky

00:07:42Guest:No, I'm, wow, I'm four years off the booze.

00:07:46Marc:But you just do it your way.

00:07:49Marc:You don't do recovery.

00:07:50Guest:Yeah, that's one way to put it.

00:07:53Guest:Yeah.

00:07:54Guest:You think it's bad that I didn't do the AA route?

00:07:57Guest:Who gives a shit how you do it?

00:07:58Guest:I follow Bill Wilson on Twitter.

00:07:59Guest:Isn't that enough?

00:08:00Guest:Yeah.

00:08:00Guest:I don't give a shit how you do it.

00:08:02Guest:You know?

00:08:02Guest:Right.

00:08:03Guest:I don't judge that.

00:08:05Guest:You know, the series of events that led up to me turning my life around.

00:08:11Guest:Yeah, I mean, you know, we're friends and you know.

00:08:14Guest:I'll give you the...

00:08:16Guest:the quick recap but you know my father was i've been a heavy party in my whole life and then i remember we've had some time we had some times together and you know i really i thought i was at the pinnacle of my career and way of living i put everything into storage i didn't live anywhere for 10 years

00:08:35Guest:I would do like three or four months a year in Europe, you know, a month in Asia, a month in Australia, a month in New Zealand, all over the States.

00:08:42Guest:My wife traveled with me for eight of those years.

00:08:45Guest:And then when we had time off, like four years in a row, we went to Rome and rented an apartment.

00:08:50Guest:I did a month in Asia.

00:08:51Guest:Then we went to Bali for a couple of weeks.

00:08:53Marc:And this is all just sort of like, this is how you wanted to live.

00:08:56Guest:this is my dream way of living.

00:08:57Guest:And now with today's, you know, with like Airbnb and, you know, it's like you don't have to live anywhere.

00:09:04Guest:Right.

00:09:04Guest:And so when I had time off, I would go to New Orleans a lot and San Francisco in the States, Venice Beach when I'd be in LA.

00:09:13Guest:We really had life perfect, I thought.

00:09:16Guest:And my father was killed by a drunk driver.

00:09:20Guest:I loved my dad.

00:09:22Guest:My dad's the reason I'm a comedian.

00:09:24Guest:Yeah.

00:09:24Guest:And I took that.

00:09:25Guest:How old was

00:09:25Guest:74, 73 at the time.

00:09:28Guest:He was in a car?

00:09:30Guest:He was in a car in Anaheim, yeah.

00:09:33Guest:They lived out here?

00:09:34Guest:My dad lived in Anaheim, yeah.

00:09:36Guest:And then a year and a half later, and I hadn't gotten over my dad dying, and then a year and a half later, my little sister died of breast cancer.

00:09:44Guest:And I was really close with my sister.

00:09:46Guest:I have two jock-thug older brothers who were bullies and beat the shit out of me.

00:09:54Guest:And my sister and I, to rebel against my brothers, became artsy and cool.

00:10:01Guest:And we were into theater and movies and comedy and music.

00:10:05Guest:And it was always me and my sister against my brothers.

00:10:09Guest:And so...

00:10:11Guest:My wife and I, Ashna, we were going to get married on April 22nd.

00:10:16Guest:And then on April 19th, they said she's got 24 hours to live.

00:10:21Guest:Oh, my God.

00:10:21Guest:Things went like horribly bad.

00:10:23Guest:Yeah.

00:10:24Guest:Like two weeks before we were going to get married.

00:10:26Guest:And so I was I was in Florida because I was going to get married.

00:10:30Guest:And then all this goes terribly bad with my sister.

00:10:33Guest:And they said that she's got 24 hours to live.

00:10:37Guest:And I said to Ashna, do you want to get married at her bedside?

00:10:43Guest:And she's like, oh my God, of course.

00:10:45Guest:So we got married at my sister's hospital bedside at the Orlando Regional Medical Center in Orlando.

00:10:53Guest:That's heavy, man.

00:10:55Guest:Was she conscious?

00:10:56Guest:She was conscious.

00:10:57Guest:She clapped.

00:10:58Guest:And she said congratulations through her breathing mask.

00:11:01Guest:And it turned out to be the last word she ever spoke.

00:11:04Guest:And I can't tell you how much I loved my sister and how painful this was.

00:11:09Guest:And I mean, doctors and nurses and everybody was crowded at the door.

00:11:14Guest:It was not a dry eye in the place, especially me.

00:11:17Guest:I was like, I do.

00:11:20Guest:I mean, now looking back, I can see how beautiful, the beauty in the moment.

00:11:26Guest:I mean, at the time, it was completely gut-wrenching and heartbreaking.

00:11:32Guest:But, you know, and then she died.

00:11:35Guest:It's a very long, painful wait to watch someone you love die of cancer.

00:11:42Guest:Yeah.

00:11:44Guest:And if you think about it, you know, I guess getting married in a hospital...

00:11:50Guest:is kind of a good place because, like, people are being born and people are dying.

00:11:55Guest:And, you know, I can look back on it now and see, like, the textured beauty in it.

00:12:01Guest:The poetic.

00:12:03Guest:The poetic beauty, yeah.

00:12:05Guest:But...

00:12:06Guest:I went into the toilet emotionally afterwards.

00:12:10Guest:As a newlywed.

00:12:12Marc:It just spiraled.

00:12:13Guest:Well, I mean, it wasn't depression.

00:12:15Guest:It was grief and sorrow.

00:12:17Guest:Sure.

00:12:17Guest:And I really saw no joy in life.

00:12:21Guest:And it was difficult to come up with jokes.

00:12:26Guest:Fortunately, I have so much material that I've been doing comedy for so long.

00:12:30Guest:I could still do gigs.

00:12:32Guest:Yeah.

00:12:32Guest:And it felt great to put my brain on a shelf and go out and do shows and feel laughter washing over me.

00:12:39Guest:Yeah.

00:12:40Guest:But I pretty much...

00:12:44Guest:My wife helped me, but I think I lost my sense of humor for a while.

00:12:49Guest:And then I was also really medicating myself.

00:12:51Guest:Yeah.

00:12:52Guest:Drinking more than I ever had.

00:12:53Guest:Yeah.

00:12:54Guest:And I've always been a heavy partier, and I really got this fat white guy alcoholic face with the booze nose.

00:13:02Guest:Yeah.

00:13:02Guest:And I just- Are you smoking?

00:13:06Guest:I don't know.

00:13:06Guest:I'm heavily smoking.

00:13:07Guest:Yeah.

00:13:08Guest:Two packs of cigarettes a day.

00:13:09Guest:And I blacked out in Philadelphia-

00:13:12Guest:I was in Philadelphia for New Year's Eve.

00:13:14Guest:Yeah.

00:13:15Guest:Working.

00:13:15Guest:New Year's Eve came on a Wednesday.

00:13:17Guest:And then the contract, they had me stay in for the weekend.

00:13:19Guest:Right.

00:13:20Guest:And then I had January 1st off in Philadelphia.

00:13:23Guest:And it was a normal evening.

00:13:26Guest:I had 10 pints of Sierra Nevada.

00:13:29Guest:Yeah.

00:13:29Guest:It was a normal evening for me.

00:13:31Guest:Right.

00:13:31Guest:And I blacked out.

00:13:32Guest:I fell off this barstool like a tree and busted my head open on a tile floor.

00:13:37Guest:And there's blood everywhere.

00:13:38Guest:And once my head hit the ground, I was wide awake.

00:13:41Guest:Some guy lifts my arm up and he yells out to the bar, we got to call an ambulance.

00:13:45Guest:Yeah.

00:13:45Guest:I'm like, fuck that.

00:13:46Guest:I don't have health insurance.

00:13:47Guest:Don't you dare call an ambulance.

00:13:49Marc:Right.

00:13:49Marc:You said that.

00:13:50Guest:I did.

00:13:50Guest:And he goes, you got to get to a hospital.

00:13:53Guest:I go, how far is the nearest hospital?

00:13:54Guest:He goes, two blocks.

00:13:55Guest:So I walked to the hospital and I...

00:14:00Guest:I got six stitches on my forehead and I had to get like five staples on the top of my head.

00:14:07Guest:And the next morning I woke up and I saw so much ugliness in the mirror.

00:14:11Guest:Yeah, bloody ugliness.

00:14:12Guest:I had a Frankenstein stitches.

00:14:14Guest:I had a black eye.

00:14:15Guest:And I just thought...

00:14:19Guest:That's it.

00:14:20Guest:I'm done.

00:14:20Guest:And I thought to honor my dead father and sister, I should be the best human being and comedian I can possibly be instead of getting fucked up every night of my life.

00:14:37Marc:Well, you were gunning to really hurt yourself.

00:14:40Guest:Well, I mean, you know, every hero, you started out the same.

00:14:43Guest:Every hero I ever had died fat, naked, and bloated on the bathroom tiles.

00:14:47Marc:I know, but it's like, you know, that's not what makes them aspirational.

00:14:52Guest:Yeah, no, I know.

00:14:54Guest:But I mean, it took me a long time to figure out.

00:14:57Guest:I mean, I was just numbing myself because I didn't want to face my own grief.

00:15:02Guest:Sure, of course.

00:15:03Guest:And then I realized that like as a comedian and an artist, that is what you need to do.

00:15:08Guest:You need to face your own grief and your own shit that's going on in your life.

00:15:13Marc:Yeah, and process it and disarm it and make it funny.

00:15:17Marc:And make it funny.

00:15:17Marc:Get some distance from it.

00:15:18Marc:There's no way to get distance from it if you didn't stop or take it in.

00:15:23Marc:But like, you know, it sounds like, I mean, that kind of heavy shit, like your father going and your sister.

00:15:29Marc:I mean, you know, that's years of fairly, you know, conscious grieving.

00:15:33Yeah.

00:15:33Guest:yeah i mean and uh it hurt i mean and you know the uh the charlie chaplin quote pops to mind uh comedy is to take your pain and play with it did you say that just yeah i just read his autobiography so so you don't drink no reefer anymore either

00:15:50Guest:No.

00:15:51Guest:And my wife, I mean, minimal.

00:15:53Guest:Yeah.

00:15:54Guest:Like I, my wife is from Holland.

00:15:57Guest:Yeah.

00:15:58Guest:And the misconception about Dutch people is that they love weed.

00:16:01Guest:No.

00:16:02Guest:Dutch people hate weed.

00:16:03Guest:They like hash?

00:16:04Guest:And no.

00:16:06Guest:And the thing is, is, you know, there's exceptions to every rule, but this is what we're not getting in the United States.

00:16:13Guest:right now yeah uh weed is tolerated and semi-legal in in the netherlands but they teach their kids that drugs are for losers and so my wife just thinks that she thinks weed is up there with heroin and i love my wife more than i love getting high yeah i have learned and uh now in the united states

00:16:36Guest:Because it's becoming legal state by state, working from the West.

00:16:42Guest:You know, imagine when prohibition ended, how much people just must have drank and gotten fucked up everywhere.

00:16:49Guest:So I think that's kind of like what's happening with weed now.

00:16:52Marc:I wonder, I don't think, I haven't done a lot of reading on it, but it doesn't seem like people are going crazy.

00:16:59Guest:i'm saying people are uh i'm seeing weed everywhere sure uh people smoking pot right right but it's sort of like uh i i think that the people that are going to smoke pot are going to smoke pot and the people that aren't aren't you know it's you know what i mean like the people that always what i'm talking about is people from a young age smoking this really crazy yeah high grade pot yeah

00:17:22Guest:That's definitely going to have an effect on your brain.

00:17:25Guest:Sure.

00:17:25Guest:It's not like when you and I started out.

00:17:27Guest:You know, I lived in Amsterdam for five years.

00:17:29Guest:You go to Amsterdam, the weed shops are like, oh, man, give me super skunk triple X dog dick.

00:17:35Guest:Right.

00:17:35Guest:You want the because you're trying to be manly or whatever.

00:17:38Guest:I can handle weed.

00:17:39Guest:Yeah.

00:17:39Guest:After I lived there for like a year, I would go into the weed shop and go, hey, you guys got any like Mexican ragweed?

00:17:45Guest:You know, something you can roll.

00:17:46Guest:Low grade stuff.

00:17:47Guest:Something you can roll and like have happy conversations with your friends.

00:17:51Guest:And not be incapacitated.

00:17:53Guest:So, I mean, you know, I've talked about this on my podcast and had people, you know, write me nasty things.

00:17:59Guest:You're talking against weed.

00:18:01Guest:No.

00:18:02Guest:I've spent my life smoking weed.

00:18:04Guest:No one is more pro-weed than me.

00:18:06Guest:I'm just saying that there's not this counter good advice to people that if you smoke weed all the time, you're not going to get shit done.

00:18:18Marc:Yeah, it's going to diminish things because you get a lot done in your head and also it disables your ability to listen a little bit.

00:18:29Marc:You get a little paranoid.

00:18:30Marc:You sort of get detached.

00:18:32Marc:But it affects people differently.

00:18:34Marc:Some people don't get any of those things.

00:18:36Marc:And I guess some people it helps.

00:18:37Guest:I've gotten a lot more done with my wife cracking the whip.

00:18:43Guest:Without weed.

00:18:44Guest:I've been working on this book.

00:18:46Guest:for like seven years about my life as a comedian and all this stuff that seven years uh yeah i mean it's i started it i i wasn't sure where it was going everything has come into focus about you know my what i had to deal with about getting over the the grief and that's great so like where how where are you at with it how close are you to finishing the book

00:19:09Guest:I'm going through the second draft right now, so I'm cutting the fat off of the pork chop.

00:19:14Guest:I got a few friends.

00:19:15Guest:Oh, my God.

00:19:16Guest:Your buddy, Jerry Stahl, when I was hanging out with you guys at the comedy store, he helped me tremendously.

00:19:22Guest:Oh, really?

00:19:23Guest:Yeah, because I was talking to him, and so he's like...

00:19:27Guest:Tell me what your story is.

00:19:30Guest:And so we're talking.

00:19:31Guest:And from having conversations with people like him and a few other writer friends of mine, I've been able to flesh out, kind of, because I was trying to tell too much of the story.

00:19:42Guest:So I was telling him about my life.

00:19:44Guest:And after the sitcom, I had the money.

00:19:47Guest:And I looked at that as my NBC artist grant.

00:19:50Guest:And I started taking trips to Europe.

00:19:52Guest:And that's how I got in with the worldwide...

00:19:54Guest:comedy circuits and just you know and i'm telling him about my life and i said listen you know i i just uh tried to clean up chapter seven and chapter seven is 70 000 words and the or something like that then the great gatsby was only 60 000 words and jerry goes uh sounds like you had a more interesting life than gatsby

00:20:19Guest:and then he also said it sounds like you have more than one book in you yeah so uh that was very helpful you don't have to tell the whole story right right yeah that is helpful but like all these early things that happened to me on the road when i first went on the road um like crazy stories that i tried to just trying to jam everything in there and you don't have to jam everything well that's i think that's what a first draft is for yeah and then you know just kind of weed them out you know put them in different files that's for the other book

00:20:48Guest:Yeah.

00:20:49Guest:Well, I mean, nothing will be lost.

00:20:51Guest:Sure.

00:20:52Guest:Another writer, a friend of mine, told me that.

00:20:54Guest:Yeah.

00:20:54Guest:Just know that in the future, things will be used.

00:20:56Guest:Because, you know, I was maced the first time I went to Paris.

00:21:02Guest:I almost drowned in Thailand.

00:21:03Guest:Yeah.

00:21:04Guest:I had my own late night talk show on Dutch television in Amsterdam.

00:21:07Guest:Yeah.

00:21:08Guest:You know.

00:21:08Guest:Yeah.

00:21:08Guest:And all this epic story about losing the people I love the most in life and still trying to...

00:21:16Marc:maintain a sense of humor sure as a comedian yeah uh i think that's a pretty epic story yeah well that could be one story the the road tales could you know dealing with grief and dealing with that that the whole process of processing the deaths uh and also getting clean and sober yourself that's a that could be one whole book yeah so you got the book going that in the new podcast is did you is it renamed or anything

00:21:44Guest:It's Tom Rhodes Radio Smart Camp, which comes from our mutual friend Jack Boulware.

00:21:51Guest:Whenever he and I get together, we call it Smart Camp because we talk about books and whatever we've been into since we've last seen each other.

00:21:59Marc:I haven't talked to him in a while.

00:22:01Guest:I saw him last week.

00:22:02Guest:How is he?

00:22:02Guest:Beautiful guy.

00:22:03Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:22:03Guest:Yeah, he's doing great.

00:22:04Marc:He's doing good?

00:22:05Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:22:06Marc:I guess we don't talk as much as we used to.

00:22:08Marc:I don't know why.

00:22:08Guest:Well, you're busy.

00:22:09Marc:I guess.

00:22:10Marc:Maybe I don't reach out to people.

00:22:12Marc:I feel like I'm isolated.

00:22:14Marc:It is busy.

00:22:14Guest:You always let us reach out to you.

00:22:16Guest:But it's weird.

00:22:18Marc:But I don't reach out to anybody.

00:22:20Marc:It's not like there's a crew.

00:22:21Marc:Me and Jerry, there are guys that I don't do much.

00:22:25Marc:Do you know what I mean?

00:22:27Marc:What do I do?

00:22:30Marc:I've got Sarah, I've got comedy, and occasionally I'll go to some AA meetings, and I'll go see a movie, but I guess I don't differentiate between work and doing things.

00:22:40Marc:But I guess it is confusing.

00:22:41Guest:Yeah, and I see you at the comedy store.

00:22:42Guest:Right.

00:22:43Marc:But I feel like I'm getting to a point where I'm going to have a new house, have people over, do that kind of stuff.

00:22:51Marc:People don't talk as much as they used to because you text.

00:22:53Marc:You don't get on the phone.

00:22:55Marc:I used to do that with people.

00:22:58Marc:Well, you and I, you know, we... Yeah, I see you.

00:23:01Marc:But like the fact that, you know, Jack and I, Christ, Jack was at both my weddings.

00:23:04Marc:You know, there was a little tension years ago, but like I thought we got through it.

00:23:07Marc:But I don't, like I just reached out to my old buddy Sam, who I, I just don't talk to people enough.

00:23:12Marc:I'm not in a regular rotation of talking to guys.

00:23:15Marc:You know, maybe just a couple, but I guess that's all you got, right?

00:23:18Guest:Yeah, but I mean, people understand, you know, you're busy.

00:23:21Guest:I guess.

00:23:21Guest:I just gave an excuse.

00:23:22Guest:See, I'm an enabler.

00:23:23Marc:No, it's nice.

00:23:25Marc:Yeah, it's nice, but I feel I'm feeling bad myself.

00:23:28Marc:Like that's part of being like, and also part of my job is talking to people.

00:23:31Marc:So I do get satisfied in terms of conversation.

00:23:35Guest:Right.

00:23:35Guest:So some of, so most of us have to do this with our best friends that you do with people all the time.

00:23:40Marc:Just be strangers, strangers, man.

00:23:43Marc:So well, it's good seeing you.

00:23:45Marc:It's great seeing you too.

00:23:46Marc:I'm glad you're doing well or that you're engaged and healthy and sober and writing and doing comedy around the world.

00:23:54Guest:Yeah, man.

00:23:57Guest:I'm very happy in life.

00:23:59Guest:The further...

00:24:00Guest:I tell people who have gone through different tragedies and losing people they love that you're never going to fully get over it.

00:24:06Guest:They're just degrees of better.

00:24:09Guest:And now that I'm so many years past it, I'm very happy in life, very creative.

00:24:17Guest:My wife is a photographer.

00:24:18Guest:We push each other to be creative in our best selves, as cheesy as that sounds.

00:24:24Guest:And then I want to say the last thing.

00:24:27Guest:Yeah.

00:24:28Guest:I just played at this beautiful theater in Paris, Theater La Ouvre.

00:24:34Guest:Yeah.

00:24:34Guest:I can't pronounce it.

00:24:35Guest:Yeah.

00:24:35Guest:It's French for masterpiece.

00:24:37Guest:Yeah.

00:24:37Guest:How do you say Ouvre?

00:24:38Guest:Ouvre?

00:24:39Guest:Ouvre.

00:24:39Guest:Something like that?

00:24:40Guest:That's it.

00:24:40Marc:I'm not good.

00:24:41Guest:I don't know.

00:24:41Guest:La Ouvre.

00:24:42Guest:Yeah.

00:24:43Guest:I'm booked back at this theater on October 15th, and I'm going to film my next hour special there.

00:24:50Guest:So if any listener, I'm working on that now, who's going to produce it.

00:24:56Guest:Cool.

00:24:56Guest:So if anybody's looking for a happy trip to Paris.

00:25:00Marc:Yeah, and you want that to involve Tom Rhodes.

00:25:04Marc:Why not?

00:25:05Marc:I'm on board.

00:25:07Marc:Why not?

00:25:08Guest:I'll tell you about Daunton and nice things about the French Revolution.

00:25:11Guest:Oh, is that going to be- No, and Voltaire.

00:25:13Guest:Voltaire said that God is a comedian performing in front of an audience too afraid to laugh.

00:25:18Guest:Obviously, God had also performed at Yuck Yucks in Toronto.

00:25:26Marc:Well, it's good seeing you, man.

00:25:27Marc:Thanks for coming by.

00:25:28Marc:I love you, Mark.

00:25:29Marc:Love you, too.

00:25:35Marc:All right, that was me and Tom.

00:25:37Marc:Me and Tom Rhodes.

00:25:38Marc:Go listen to Tom Rhodes on Tom Rhodes Radio.

00:25:41Marc:And look at his comedy.

00:25:43Marc:Go find some Tom Rhodes.

00:25:46Marc:So Scott Thompson, I have not... We run into each other a lot.

00:25:49Marc:I haven't seen him in a while.

00:25:50Marc:I didn't know that he'd gone through some stuff that we talk about.

00:25:54Marc:He had some health issues, and he's good.

00:25:58Marc:He's back, and he's revived his Kids in the Hall character, Buddy Cole, and is performing new Buddy monologues across the U.S.

00:26:04Marc:and Canada.

00:26:05Marc:He's also re-released Buddy Cole's autobiography, Buddy Babylon, and he's back at it.

00:26:11Marc:Scott is back at it.

00:26:12Marc:He's had a pretty great career in show business, and it was great to talk to him.

00:26:17Marc:So this is me and Scott Thompson.

00:26:19Marc:Again, one of the last interviews in the original garage.

00:26:25Marc:you say you got a lot of books yeah i have a lot of books i have a big library like like where we're in toronto so you're living in toronto no no i'm here i'm here but i i rented a year and a half ago i moved back and i rented my apartment out and i'm giving it a couple of years just i'm giving it one more shot oh yeah yeah to be here and and and how's that feeling great

00:26:49Guest:it actually feels great yeah things are going amazing how long were you away for eight years you were in toronto for eight years nine years almost yeah i went back in 2009 uh i had cancer so i had to go home i had no health care so i had to go home to get cured what kind of cancer i had large b-cell non-hodgkin's gastric lymphoma so it's like non-hodgkin's lymphoma in the stomach

00:27:12Marc:So am I wrong in thinking that that's one of the cancers that they have some success with?

00:27:18Guest:Yes.

00:27:18Guest:The lymphomas and all the liquid cancers are doing great with.

00:27:22Guest:Yeah.

00:27:22Guest:Like leukemia, lymphoma.

00:27:24Guest:Yeah.

00:27:24Guest:Those ones, they've made enormous strides the last 10 years.

00:27:27Guest:So I lucked out getting that one.

00:27:28Guest:Yeah.

00:27:29Guest:And I had a cancer that was very aggressive.

00:27:32Guest:But the other ironic thing about the cancer I had is that because it's so aggressive, it'll kill you really fast.

00:27:39Guest:But if you catch it early, you can kill it.

00:27:42Guest:Oh, really?

00:27:43Guest:So it's one of those things, the slower ones, the ones they call the indolent cancers, they're harder to cure.

00:27:48Guest:And sometimes, many of them you can never cure.

00:27:50Guest:You just manage them.

00:27:51Guest:You manage them.

00:27:52Guest:But this one is like a fire.

00:27:54Guest:And if you hit it really hard, you can just, you can kill it.

00:27:58Marc:So you found out you had cancer in 2009?

00:28:01Marc:Mm-hmm, April.

00:28:02Marc:That's when I started the podcast, well, in September.

00:28:04Marc:So you've been away for that long.

00:28:06Guest:That long, yeah.

00:28:07Marc:So you're just here?

00:28:08Marc:Were you working?

00:28:09Guest:I went back home.

00:28:10Guest:First of all, I had to go back home and get sure.

00:28:11Marc:But how'd you find out you had cancer?

00:28:12Guest:Mm-hmm?

00:28:13Guest:How'd you find out you had cancer?

00:28:14Guest:Well, I woke up one morning, and I had pain in my stomach, and that was it.

00:28:17Guest:just like that but you knew that this was not regular absolutely yes no i absolutely knew and the funny thing is we were writing um death comes to town the kids in the hall um that show we did in 2009 2010 our mini series about death yeah and bruce and i and and kevin were breaking the story down and i showed up like you know the first week and said i'm

00:28:39Guest:had this pain in my stomach it's no bugging me yeah and i knew it i knew it was serious and i was very lucky because i went early right to the doctors yeah he told me it was like um acid reflux and i said no i know what that is yeah and then they they started you know they put me on something for a week or so and i went no it's not it's not it's not um it's still there yeah and then they put a camera down my throat down my stomach yeah and they found and then i woke up and they said your stomach's full of blood you're going in the hospital

00:29:06Guest:And that was the end of it.

00:29:07Guest:And I was home in a week.

00:29:09Marc:So, oh yeah, because you didn't have any coverage here.

00:29:11Guest:That's right.

00:29:11Guest:But I had one month left on my Screen Actors Guild.

00:29:15Guest:So I got my first treatment here at Cedars-Sinai, which was remarkable.

00:29:20Guest:And then I was sent the bill and it was $49,000 for my first treatment.

00:29:28Guest:It was covered, but it was shocking and I realized like if I had, if you put all my treatment together, I was like a half a million dollars.

00:29:35Guest:That's crazy.

00:29:36Guest:That is crazy.

00:29:37Guest:Crazy.

00:29:38Marc:And now how was the care in Canada?

00:29:41Guest:Oh, it was great.

00:29:41Guest:It was amazing because, you know, I've been gone for a long time and I thought they wouldn't bring me back.

00:29:47Guest:They wouldn't accept me.

00:29:48Guest:But my brother pulled a few strings and they slipped me back into the system.

00:29:52Guest:So I didn't miss any treatment.

00:29:54Guest:I started my treatment here.

00:29:56Guest:Then I went home the next day or two days later.

00:29:58Guest:Yeah.

00:29:59Guest:And, and then I started it right away and I went through, um, the next six months I got treated.

00:30:05Marc:How many treatments?

00:30:06Guest:Um, six chemotherapy treatments and, um, 30 radiation treatments.

00:30:12Marc:No kidding.

00:30:13Guest:Yeah.

00:30:13Guest:Radiations every day.

00:30:15Guest:And my, my chemotherapy was every three weeks.

00:30:18Marc:So your brother's got some pull in the healthcare.

00:30:20Guest:Well, my brother works in the healthcare industry.

00:30:22Guest:Is he a doctor?

00:30:23Guest:No, he's an administrator.

00:30:24Guest:Oh, hospital administrator.

00:30:25Guest:Even better.

00:30:26Guest:Yeah.

00:30:27Guest:Even better.

00:30:28Yeah.

00:30:28Marc:It's one of those family connections you hope you never have to use.

00:30:32Guest:Yeah, it really was a good one.

00:30:34Guest:I didn't expect I'd have to use it because I didn't expect I'd ever, I didn't expect I would get cancer.

00:30:39Marc:You know, something's going to get you.

00:30:41Guest:Yeah, absolutely, but I thought my family were a heart and stroke people.

00:30:45Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:30:46Guest:We're not cancer people.

00:30:47Marc:You come from old school heart stroke people.

00:30:49Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:30:50Guest:So, you know, our arteries clog up.

00:30:51Guest:You know, I was more likely... I thought, we're gout people.

00:30:54Guest:We're not cancer people.

00:30:58Marc:You broke the pattern.

00:31:00Guest:I did.

00:31:01Guest:Oh.

00:31:01Guest:And it was... So, I went home and...

00:31:03Guest:Your folks still alive?

00:31:05Guest:Yes, my folks are still alive.

00:31:06Guest:So I got longevity on my side.

00:31:08Marc:Oh, that's good.

00:31:09Guest:And I need it.

00:31:09Guest:Now I really need it because of the damage that's been done.

00:31:12Guest:From the radiation?

00:31:14Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:31:14Guest:But it was amazing.

00:31:15Guest:So after I was better, I decided I would start over again.

00:31:19Guest:And so I started really working at stand-up.

00:31:22Marc:How many siblings do you have?

00:31:24Guest:Four brothers.

00:31:25Guest:One's gone, but there were five boys.

00:31:27Marc:Are they all in Toronto?

00:31:29Marc:So was everybody rallying around?

00:31:31Guest:Yes.

00:31:31Guest:Yes, they were.

00:31:32Guest:Yeah.

00:31:33Guest:that's very don't be such a baby it's a it's a good cancer oh that must have been nice though it must have been nice to be around family it was good and you know it was a really i mean i wouldn't i really wish it hadn't happened but it did allow me to rebond with my family see my parents a lot more my mom has alzheimer's now so those years were really good because now she doesn't really know who i am

00:31:57Guest:Is that true?

00:31:57Guest:Yeah, she really doesn't.

00:31:59Guest:I mean, she knows that I'm someone that she loves, but she doesn't quite know how she loves me, so sometimes she confuses it, and she thinks I'm a lover.

00:32:10Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:32:10Marc:Oh, really?

00:32:11Marc:I hear that happens a lot, though.

00:32:12Guest:It does.

00:32:13Guest:It certainly happens a lot with her.

00:32:14Guest:It happens a lot with her.

00:32:16Guest:She'll put her hand on my knee and go, ooh.

00:32:19Guest:You're a good looking man.

00:32:20Guest:I'm like, well, you're sort of, I'm sort of your son.

00:32:25Guest:Oh, I'm too young to have children.

00:32:28Guest:Oh, really?

00:32:29Guest:Because you think she's like 11.

00:32:30Guest:Oh, really?

00:32:31Guest:And then she'll go, okay, ma, really?

00:32:33Guest:And then usually I fuck her.

00:32:36Guest:I mean, what are you going to do, Mark?

00:32:37Guest:It's your mom, right?

00:32:38Guest:Finally.

00:32:39Guest:Finally, yes.

00:32:41Guest:No one would fault me.

00:32:43Guest:No one would fault me for doing that.

00:32:45Marc:You had it coming.

00:32:46Guest:And then I decided when I was sick, I'm going to do stand-up because I've got nothing to be afraid of anymore.

00:32:52Guest:I've always dabbled with it.

00:32:53Marc:Right.

00:32:54Guest:But I never took it seriously.

00:32:56Marc:So what was the process for that?

00:32:59Marc:Because I've seen you on stage doing things.

00:33:01Guest:Yeah, but I would never call myself a stand-up until now.

00:33:05Guest:I would have called myself an actor who dabbled.

00:33:08Marc:Sketch performer, comic actor.

00:33:12Guest:One man show guy.

00:33:13Guest:Oh yeah, you did a one man show.

00:33:15Guest:I did a lot of one man shows.

00:33:16Marc:Yeah, that was the angle.

00:33:17Marc:It used to be the thing.

00:33:18Guest:Yes, but one man shows are where you look up to the audience and your hands are down by your side.

00:33:23Guest:You've got a body mic.

00:33:24Guest:That's not the same thing.

00:33:25Guest:no well what was the one-man show remind me of some of your one-man show well one was called um the lowest show on earth uh-huh and that was um all about uh how humans are are are disgusting and it's all about how all it's just basically wallowing all all the terrible things that human beings do yeah and uh oh that's good i did 12 characters and they're all dealing with violence mostly it was about violence really how did i miss this

00:33:49Guest:Well, here's what happened with that show.

00:33:52Guest:It was supposed to go to New York City.

00:33:54Guest:Yeah.

00:33:55Guest:I was supposed to open in New York on December.

00:33:58Guest:No, it's December.

00:33:59Marc:Is this a 9-11 story?

00:34:00Guest:Yes, it is a 9-11 story.

00:34:01Guest:September the 18th.

00:34:02Marc:Anytime it starts.

00:34:03Marc:I was supposed to in New York.

00:34:05Guest:September 18th, 2001.

00:34:06Marc:Well, the reason that didn't work is it came out.

00:34:09Guest:Yeah.

00:34:10Guest:One week later.

00:34:10Guest:Yeah, right.

00:34:11Guest:So there was like a bunch of us that went down that was like, I think Macy Gray had a new album.

00:34:16Guest:I think Mariah Carey had a new album, Michael Jackson.

00:34:19Guest:And then me.

00:34:20Guest:No one remembers me.

00:34:21Guest:I'm one of the- The lost performers.

00:34:23Guest:The lost performers.

00:34:24Guest:Of the post-90s.

00:34:25Guest:And my posters went up in New York on the 10th.

00:34:28Guest:Oh, my God.

00:34:28Guest:And I tell you, Mark, you would have seen this show because-

00:34:31Guest:It's the best poster I've ever done.

00:34:34Guest:And if that bastard hadn't taken those towers down, I would have become a superstar.

00:34:38Guest:Oh, really?

00:34:39Guest:That was it?

00:34:39Marc:On the 11th.

00:34:40Marc:And Macy Gray would have had that second album.

00:34:42Guest:Absolutely.

00:34:43Guest:And Mariah Carey wouldn't have had that breakdown on MTV later.

00:34:47Guest:And my poster was me with a shaved head.

00:34:49Marc:And 5,000 people would still be alive.

00:34:52Guest:oh yeah and that too oh yeah those yeah oh yeah i forgot about them but i had a big it was a such a rock and roll poster i had a shaved head yeah it looks like i've been slapped my head's like smacked back yeah and there's a big glob of cum dripping down my my face and it's just dripping off the end of my chin really and they put that they put that poster up did they not know it was 10 000 posters but didn't they say like is that cum

00:35:15Guest:Well, I told him it was shampoo, it was conditioner.

00:35:19Guest:There was some cum in it, sort of like homeopathic.

00:35:22Guest:There was a tiny bit of cum, but then I kept diluting it.

00:35:26Marc:But they put it up.

00:35:26Guest:They did, and I think it would have been a scandal if the towers hadn't come down.

00:35:31Guest:that what the poster was up yeah i think it was really there's pictures of me in new york looking really sad and dusty in front of my poster and everyone walking by it completely ignoring it yeah well they i guess they had other things to think about yeah i think they did i think they i think they did scott i think it was a bad day for a lot of it was a bad day for me it was a very day for you i know it was

00:35:53Guest:rough and then the next post the next show i did was five years later was i remember seeing you in a very wasn't there a period there where you're very butch yeah and catastrophe i think i was really butch yeah which one was that well i mean i i i mean i'm i'm sometimes butch sometimes fey i i

00:36:10Guest:But no, you dressed, like there was a period they were like- Oh yeah, well I had this character, Tijon, he was a real hardcore French Canadian guy, super macho.

00:36:20Guest:I was having a crisis about the masculinity, so I was thinking that everybody was putting me in a box, so I wanted to be a masculine, so I had this period when I was playing really butch characters.

00:36:34Guest:And that didn't work out so well.

00:36:37Guest:anyway you must have met some interesting people i did i did i did you must have learned something about yourself i did i did i did and now you know now i'm now i'm much more what's the word what am i now oh i'm what the kids call gender fluid are you gender fluid what does that mean exactly i don't really know i don't really know i don't know i just say it so that people won't think that i'm old

00:37:01Marc:Oh, good.

00:37:02Marc:That's nice.

00:37:03Marc:You're keeping up with the fresh lingo.

00:37:06Guest:Yes.

00:37:06Guest:I'm woke.

00:37:07Marc:Yeah.

00:37:08Marc:Oh, good.

00:37:08Marc:Good for you.

00:37:09Marc:You're woke and you survive cancer.

00:37:11Marc:Yeah, I've survived cancer.

00:37:12Marc:And you're gender fluid.

00:37:14Guest:Gender fluid.

00:37:14Guest:I'm woke.

00:37:15Guest:I eat poke.

00:37:16Guest:I'm doing what everybody's doing now.

00:37:19Guest:Is it poke?

00:37:19Guest:I would think so.

00:37:20Guest:Oh, God, man.

00:37:21Guest:I can't believe I said it for the first time.

00:37:22Marc:In your life.

00:37:23Marc:And you said poke.

00:37:24Guest:On radio.

00:37:24Guest:And I said poke.

00:37:26Guest:Yeah.

00:37:26Guest:It's not poke.

00:37:27Guest:It is poke.

00:37:28Marc:Pokey.

00:37:28Guest:Like Pokemon.

00:37:29Marc:Yeah, like Pokemon.

00:37:30Marc:Yeah.

00:37:30Guest:And it's Hawaiian, right?

00:37:32Guest:That's the hot new food right now, right?

00:37:33Marc:I guess it is.

00:37:34Marc:You know, I first ate it years ago when I went to Kauai, and I thought it was great.

00:37:38Marc:There was a place down in Kauai that did a seared poke, a seared tuna.

00:37:43Marc:Because the tuna, that type of tuna, it's like pigeons in the water down there.

00:37:49Marc:There's a lot of it.

00:37:50Marc:So it's very fresh, and they just quick sear it, and then they put some sesame oil on it.

00:37:54Marc:So usually it's not cooked at all, but that's where I first encountered it down there.

00:37:58Guest:Oh, okay.

00:37:58Marc:Yeah, I don't know.

00:37:59Marc:I'm surprised it's everywhere.

00:38:01Guest:I am too.

00:38:02Marc:It's like raw fish.

00:38:03Marc:All of a sudden raw fish is in strip malls and it's okay.

00:38:05Guest:But I mean, why is it not sushi?

00:38:08Marc:Because it's prepared differently.

00:38:10Marc:Usually it's almost like a salad, right?

00:38:12Marc:So you dice it up and you toss it with a little, I think, sesame oil and some other stuff.

00:38:17Marc:Usually there's a seaweed component.

00:38:19Marc:It's more like a sashimi treated.

00:38:21Marc:But you just said you ate it.

00:38:23Marc:You don't eat it?

00:38:25Marc:You made that up.

00:38:26Marc:I did make that up.

00:38:27Marc:Yeah.

00:38:27Marc:i made that up do you eat sushi i do like sushi yes you would like poke yeah i i like sushi yeah yeah it's good so all right so like i think i you and uh who who haven't i bruce you haven't done bruce i know i don't think you've done mark yeah he's the odd one right i would say that yes he's the odd one you got a lot out of dave

00:38:50Marc:Yeah, I think that turned into be a pretty provocative bit of business with his marriage and everything.

00:38:55Guest:I think more people heard that podcast than saw Death Comes to Town.

00:39:00Guest:I'm pretty sure.

00:39:01Marc:Well, it made news in Canada because of the divorce stuff.

00:39:04Guest:Yes.

00:39:04Marc:Do you still talk to everybody?

00:39:05Guest:Oh, yeah, all the time.

00:39:06Marc:Yeah?

00:39:07Marc:Yeah.

00:39:07Marc:We didn't talk about the other show.

00:39:10Marc:So the one with the cum on the face violence one.

00:39:13Guest:And the next one was called Catastrophe.

00:39:15Guest:And that was a show that the premise was really horrible.

00:39:19Guest:The premise was that Osama bin Laden took down the towers to ruin my last show.

00:39:24Guest:So that's what the premise of that show was.

00:39:25Marc:That was really...

00:39:27Guest:Yeah.

00:39:27Marc:And how did that go over?

00:39:28Guest:Not everybody else was collateral damage just so that I wouldn't go to the next level.

00:39:32Marc:And you did that show?

00:39:33Marc:Yeah.

00:39:34Marc:How'd that go over?

00:39:34Guest:You know, it was a very interesting show.

00:39:39Guest:It had a lot of other aspects in it.

00:39:41Guest:It was also, a lot of it was about the death of my brother.

00:39:44Guest:It was a serious show.

00:39:45Guest:How'd your brother die?

00:39:46Guest:Well, he killed himself.

00:39:47Guest:So it was about my relationship with my brother.

00:39:52Marc:When did that happen?

00:39:53Guest:That happened in 1995.

00:39:55Marc:Was he?

00:39:57Marc:He was schizophrenic.

00:39:58Marc:Oh, really?

00:39:59Marc:So was he in his 20s?

00:40:00Marc:He was 34.

00:40:01Marc:Oh, really?

00:40:03Marc:Yeah.

00:40:03Marc:Oh, my God.

00:40:05Marc:And what's the age difference between you?

00:40:07Guest:One year.

00:40:07Guest:Irish twins.

00:40:09Guest:Yeah.

00:40:10Marc:So the schizophrenia hit in his 20s?

00:40:12Guest:It hit earlier.

00:40:13Guest:It hit when he was about 17.

00:40:15Guest:And in one year, he just became a different person.

00:40:21Guest:But in those days, people didn't really understand schizophrenia.

00:40:25Marc:Really?

00:40:26Guest:No.

00:40:26Guest:And also, there was a lot more shame around mental illness.

00:40:30Guest:And in my family, because we were all men and it was such a masculine, like you don't show any emotion kind of a family.

00:40:38Guest:Really?

00:40:39Guest:Yeah.

00:40:40Guest:um people were just thinking that he was showing off because i was like wait a second i'm the weirdo you're the jock right why are you pretending you're christ i'm christ you're not christ yeah you can't why are you reading these books yeah that's my territory and um because we were very very different we were raised together we lived in the same room yeah we shared bunk beds i mean i was with him my whole life and then he he he left

00:41:07Guest:But he was a very good-looking, very masculine, very athletic guy.

00:41:14Guest:Women loved him.

00:41:16Guest:And he could play any sport.

00:41:18Guest:And then suddenly, he became this weirdo.

00:41:22Guest:And I was threatened because I was the weirdo.

00:41:25Marc:Because you didn't know what was going on.

00:41:27Marc:You thought he was just doing it on purpose.

00:41:29Guest:Yes.

00:41:30Guest:And I was not sympathetic.

00:41:33Guest:Yeah.

00:41:35Guest:I was not a good brother.

00:41:37Guest:And then what happened was about five years into it, it was really, really awful.

00:41:42Yeah.

00:41:42Marc:Like what were the symptoms he thought?

00:41:45Guest:Well, he had a lot of, you know, he thought he was Jesus Christ, that he was the reincarnation of Christ, that he was going to rewrite all of Shakespeare's works.

00:41:53Guest:And I was like, that's my job.

00:41:56Guest:He was going to write all, I remember one time he brought me into the basement and he told me, Jesus had told him,

00:42:01Guest:that he was going to rewrite all of shakespeare's works uh-huh and because this is insane that he wanted more tanks uh-huh and he was going to rewrite like um one of them and put tanks into it into shakespeare into shakespeare that's what shakespeare was missing didn't have any tanks yeah and that is true the reason there are no tanks reasonable update absolutely and i mean you know in a way i mean didn't they do one that took a version of richard

00:42:26Marc:One of the Richards in Germany, Nazi Germany.

00:42:29Marc:Didn't they do that with- I think so.

00:42:31Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:42:31Guest:And also they had, and they redid Jay Mostert.

00:42:35Guest:They put in vampires.

00:42:36Guest:Sure.

00:42:37Guest:Right?

00:42:37Marc:So why not?

00:42:38Guest:Why wouldn't you believe that he was infringing on your creative world when it seemed like a reasonable- Well, see now, now that he's gone, I've taken on his work and I am putting, I am rewriting all of Shakespeare's works and I am putting tanks into everything except for Romeo and Juliet.

00:42:54Guest:I just don't think they need it.

00:42:56Marc:I think you're right, and I think it's a beautiful homage to your brother's creativity.

00:43:00Guest:I think so.

00:43:01Guest:And it'll take the rest of my life to do.

00:43:02Marc:Well, at least you have something to do.

00:43:04Marc:I have something to do.

00:43:06Marc:Don't talk about it too much.

00:43:07Guest:No, you're right.

00:43:08Guest:Not many people will listen, right?

00:43:11Guest:So, and then he got hit by a car.

00:43:14Guest:He had a very, very tough life.

00:43:16Guest:And so he was in a coma for a long time.

00:43:19Guest:Oh my God.

00:43:19Guest:And then he was supposed to, we thought he wasn't going to make it.

00:43:21Guest:Then when he came out of the coma, he had development, he was developmentally handicapped.

00:43:26Guest:He talked funny and he moved funny.

00:43:29Guest:Oh my God.

00:43:30Marc:And he had the mental problem.

00:43:31Guest:And we all thought, this is how stupid our family was.

00:43:35Guest:We thought that the car accident might have kicked the schizophrenia out.

00:43:40Marc:That was my first thought.

00:43:42Marc:Did he wake up normal?

00:43:44Guest:Yeah, that's what we were hoping.

00:43:45Guest:Because we're thinking, oh, when he finally gets back on his feet, he'll walk funny and he'll talk funny, but he will be normal.

00:43:53Guest:But it turned out no.

00:43:55Guest:So then he was a guy who was handicapped and had schizophrenia.

00:44:01Guest:So that was rough.

00:44:02Guest:Very, very, very rough.

00:44:04Guest:And so when he, and then he finally couldn't, you know, he just, things got really bad, really, really bad.

00:44:10Marc:But he lived a long time with it.

00:44:12Guest:He did.

00:44:13Guest:He did.

00:44:14Guest:Was he on medicine?

00:44:15Guest:Yes, he was.

00:44:15Guest:And this is one of the, this is the medication they put him on

00:44:19Guest:uh it made him gain a lot of weight and he was a beautiful guy yeah and i honestly think that was the that's what did it the vanity yeah i my family's very vain and um i think that might have been part of it i think he looked at himself and he's he was getting fat and he drooled yeah and

00:44:40Guest:He just, he couldn't handle it.

00:44:43Guest:Yeah.

00:44:43Guest:And he, and I think he realized, and an interesting thing was the medication cleared his head a little bit and allowed him to face his reality.

00:44:51Guest:Oh, right.

00:44:51Guest:And I don't, I think in a strange way it killed him.

00:44:54Guest:Yeah.

00:44:54Guest:Because he realized, oh, I have nothing.

00:44:57Guest:I'm going to be, my whole, my family and the government is going to have to take care of me the rest of my life.

00:45:03Guest:I'll never have a family.

00:45:04Guest:I'll never have a job.

00:45:06Guest:Oh, wow.

00:45:06Guest:And I, so he jumped out of his window.

00:45:09Guest:Yeah.

00:45:09Marc:Oh, my God.

00:45:10Marc:So, like, on some level, the medication made it worse.

00:45:16Marc:Yes.

00:45:16Marc:Except that he was controllable.

00:45:19Marc:Yes.

00:45:20Guest:Yes.

00:45:21Guest:And I mean, you know, and I think now they've made a lot of progress in those medications.

00:45:26Guest:They don't have as many side effects.

00:45:28Guest:Yeah.

00:45:29Guest:But he had some very serious side effects.

00:45:31Guest:Oh, that's too bad.

00:45:32Marc:And, yeah.

00:45:32Marc:Yeah.

00:45:32Marc:Since you come from that type of family, kind of a repressive, how did they handle your gayness?

00:45:41Guest:Not well.

00:45:42Guest:Oh no, not well.

00:45:45Guest:When did you come out?

00:45:46Guest:I came out late in life.

00:45:47Guest:I think I remember when you came out.

00:45:49Guest:I think I came out to you, Mark.

00:45:51Guest:I think you were the first person I told.

00:45:52Marc:No, wasn't it news?

00:45:53Guest:Like, wasn't it in like the- No, it wasn't news.

00:45:56Guest:It wasn't?

00:45:56Guest:No, it wasn't.

00:45:57Guest:No, God, no.

00:45:58Guest:Wasn't like the cover of The Advocate?

00:46:00Guest:No, are you kidding me?

00:46:01Guest:I've still never been in The Advocate.

00:46:03Guest:That's crazy.

00:46:04Guest:They're not interested in me.

00:46:05Guest:Why wouldn't they be?

00:46:06Guest:Gay men aren't interested in other gay men.

00:46:08Guest:Oh, no?

00:46:08Guest:No, unless they're porn stars or drag queens.

00:46:11Guest:Okay.

00:46:11Guest:Otherwise, no.

00:46:12Guest:If they go around regular clothes, no.

00:46:17Guest:If you're just a gender-fluid middle-aged man.

00:46:21Guest:Gender-fluid middle-aged man.

00:46:22Guest:Everybody wants that, right?

00:46:25Guest:Everybody wants a piece of that.

00:46:26Guest:It's the hot new thing.

00:46:28Guest:long flowing gray hair you know what i mean soft jaw lines yeah yeah it's great it's everyone everyone loves that now everyone's into that no when did you come out i came out in um uh i was a um i guess 83 where were you in college toronto uh i was in york university i did i went to acting school and i still didn't come out

00:46:55Guest:That's how closeted I was.

00:46:57Guest:I had a girlfriend and everything.

00:46:59Guest:Half the guys were gay and I still wouldn't come out.

00:47:02Guest:You had a girlfriend?

00:47:03Guest:Excuse me.

00:47:03Guest:Yes, I did.

00:47:04Guest:How'd that go?

00:47:05Guest:I did it.

00:47:07Marc:Sure.

00:47:08Marc:Everything.

00:47:08Marc:All ball of wax.

00:47:10Marc:You've seen a vagina.

00:47:11Marc:You've dealt with it.

00:47:11Marc:I've dealt with vaginas.

00:47:14Guest:That's not the only vagina that I dealt with.

00:47:18Guest:That's nice.

00:47:20Guest:I dealt with it.

00:47:21Guest:It was like a broken ankle.

00:47:24Marc:No, but there are some gay men that just have never.

00:47:28Guest:They call them gold star fags.

00:47:30Guest:Yeah.

00:47:30Guest:Is that true?

00:47:31Guest:Yeah.

00:47:31Guest:Gold star fag is a guy who's never had sex with a woman.

00:47:34Marc:But like just not even seen a vagina.

00:47:36Marc:Never even seen one.

00:47:37Marc:Yeah.

00:47:38Marc:Like up close.

00:47:40Marc:And it creates a certain discomfort in there.

00:47:41Guest:I think so.

00:47:42Guest:You need to see it.

00:47:43Guest:I'll tell you something.

00:47:44Guest:We were talking about my one-man show.

00:47:46Guest:Yeah.

00:47:46Guest:In one of the one-man shows, the one that we were talking about, the one that was going to New York, I mean, it was a crazy show.

00:47:53Guest:Yeah.

00:47:54Guest:I mean, a lot of it was about terrorism, so it would have had a... It was crazy.

00:47:58Guest:I mean, I had a whole mullet about Osama bin Laden.

00:48:00Marc:Well, why were you... What drove you towards that subject matter?

00:48:04Guest:Oh...

00:48:04Guest:Well, okay, we'll get back to the other part later.

00:48:09Guest:Yeah, sure.

00:48:11Guest:Well, I was firebombed by an Islamic fundamentalist group many years ago, a year before 9-11.

00:48:22Guest:And that's what inspired me to write a show about terrorism.

00:48:26Guest:So the show that I was supposed to open in New York was actually a comedy show about terrorism.

00:48:31Marc:You were firebombed?

00:48:33Marc:You were targeted?

00:48:34Marc:I was targeted.

00:48:35Marc:Where?

00:48:35Guest:In West Hollywood.

00:48:39Guest:Really?

00:48:39Guest:Uh-huh.

00:48:40Guest:Why were you targeted?

00:48:41Guest:Because my boyfriend was a filmmaker and he made a movie called Uncle Saddam.

00:48:48Guest:Uh-huh.

00:48:48Guest:And I wrote it.

00:48:49Guest:It was a documentary about the- So they had a thing on you?

00:48:53Marc:A fatwa.

00:48:54Guest:A fatwa on you.

00:48:55Guest:Him.

00:48:56Guest:Him.

00:48:56Guest:And I was collateral damage.

00:48:57Guest:And I mean, I guess, maybe now I'll get one.

00:49:01Guest:But they attacked us.

00:49:03Guest:And this is before 9-11.

00:49:04Guest:This is before the world changed.

00:49:05Guest:So what happened was they came to our house at night and they filled those giant, you know, the giant garbage.

00:49:12Guest:Yeah.

00:49:12Guest:Recycle bins.

00:49:13Guest:Recycle bins with gasoline.

00:49:15Guest:What?

00:49:15Guest:Set them on fire.

00:49:16Guest:They covered the house with red paint like blood, so it dripped off like blood.

00:49:21Guest:And they put a note inside the house that said, in the name of Allah, the merciful and compassionate, burn this satanic film or you will be dead.

00:49:30Guest:And they underlined dead in case we didn't take it seriously.

00:49:34Guest:And that's what we woke up to.

00:49:35Marc:And that was the year before- But they didn't light the things on fire?

00:49:39Guest:Oh, yeah, they lit the bonfire.

00:49:42Guest:It was a nightmare.

00:49:43Guest:And they were just terrorizing us.

00:49:45Guest:But the thing was, the police took hours to arrive.

00:49:48Guest:No one believed us.

00:49:50Guest:No one had any idea what we were talking about.

00:49:53Guest:Like my boyfriend said, it's Islamic fundamentalist.

00:49:56Guest:And I remember the cops going, what is that?

00:49:59Guest:This is how different the world was.

00:50:00Guest:What year was that?

00:50:01Guest:It was 2000.

00:50:02Guest:Just 2000?

00:50:03Guest:The year before.

00:50:04Guest:Wow.

00:50:05Guest:November 1st, 2000.

00:50:06Marc:And did this make news?

00:50:08Guest:Very small, like a tiny little story, and my name was not in it.

00:50:12Guest:His name was in it.

00:50:14Guest:And my father saw it in Canada, but it was pre 9-11, so it disappeared.

00:50:18Guest:And then I wrote a show about terrorism, and then I took it to New York, and then Osama bin Laden struck.

00:50:23Marc:so so these people were american based probably fundamentalist muslims who who were filling out it who were honoring a fatwa against your boyfriend yeah and set your house on fire they're not the house they put they set the garbage cans on fire on the lawn okay and they covered the house with paint so it's like that rare version of a burning cross

00:50:45Guest:yes exactly yes yes and terror the blood the red the red paint was the blood yeah and then the note was the death that is crazy it's terrifying and no one really understood and i had no one to really um i i there was nobody that i could really relate relate to because they were probably like oh it's a prank and everyone's like oh scott you exaggerate

00:51:06Guest:all the time oh why would that happen to you right and then and then and when everything when things like that happen to me i usually turn to art so i thought i'm gonna write about terrorism and the first piece that i wrote was about buddy cole my character buddy cole going to afghanistan to take on the taliban because it was right after they'd blown up the giant buddhas

00:51:28Guest:yeah and i and buddy was like well can i do buddy is that yeah buddy it's like i mean it's one thing to kill people everybody does that but giant statues of buddha that's just fat shaming so i became obsessed with osama bin laden and the taliban and and the very first piece i wrote was about the taliban and buddy taking on the taliban and firebombing and then he goes to afghanistan to buy anthrax because he hears that it smells really pretty

00:51:57Guest:and he meets saddam hussein's son uday sure and he's kidnapped by uday and they have sex well he's he's raped by sure and um in an underground palace with saddam hussein so all these things happened that all kind of came true in a way yeah and then that was my show and then so when new york happened i mean when it happened that was the show you had in the chamber yes ready to fire yeah and and then that happened and i was like god

00:52:27Guest:We were talking about Jung earlier.

00:52:28Guest:It's like I realized that there was a period in my life when I was very close to that collective unconscious.

00:52:35Marc:The synchronicity thing.

00:52:36Guest:I really believe that and I really believe that there was a lot of stuff in the air that certain people could capture.

00:52:44Marc:No, I think that's true.

00:52:45Marc:I think you see it like it happened to me in a dream, like where you have a dream and then you wake up and something in your day that could not have been forecasted happens that's relative to your dream.

00:52:56Guest:Absolutely.

00:52:57Guest:And that was it.

00:52:57Guest:I was having dreams.

00:52:58Guest:I felt almost like I was in a storm, like a psychic storm.

00:53:03Marc:Did your relationship survive the firebombing?

00:53:05Marc:No, it did not.

00:53:06Guest:I mean, he went into hiding and I didn't see him for six months.

00:53:10Guest:And they tried to kill him a few more times.

00:53:12Guest:Really?

00:53:13Guest:Yeah.

00:53:13Marc:God, I guess this was reported, but I don't know.

00:53:16Guest:It was, but it never got really reported.

00:53:18Guest:Is he all right now?

00:53:19Guest:Yes, he's doing very well.

00:53:21Marc:Oh, good.

00:53:22Marc:So getting back to, we were moving from vaginas to the violence.

00:53:26Guest:Oh, yes, that show, the climax of that show, I guess the encore piece was for Buddy Cole.

00:53:33Guest:The show began with Buddy Cole in Afghanistan, and it ended with Buddy Cole exploring a vagina.

00:53:41Guest:Uh-huh.

00:53:41Guest:Because basically it was Buddy going, you know, I've just done everything in the world.

00:53:44Guest:You know what I mean?

00:53:45Guest:I've topped up Nelson Mandela's, you know, champagne.

00:53:50Guest:You know, he's done everything.

00:53:51Guest:I mean, his mimosa, it was a mimosas.

00:53:54Guest:Anyways, but he decided, what have I not done?

00:53:57Guest:And I guess Buddy goes, oh, I've never really explored a vagina.

00:54:02Guest:Well, he had sex with a woman, but he had sex with her in a state of terror.

00:54:07Guest:Yeah.

00:54:07Guest:It's like when you fuck someone, it's like he fucked someone, but as they were parachuting, he thought, I want to fuck someone lying on the ground where the ground isn't shaking.

00:54:18Guest:So basically, the encore was a beautiful woman coming on stage fully naked.

00:54:23Guest:Oh, really?

00:54:24Guest:And Buddy Cole exploring her.

00:54:27Guest:it was a wild piece and i would do it in clubs and the police i had the police come to one of the clubs why because i would i put her her breast in my mouth and i'd suck her nipple and then i'd look at her vagina and i'd spread her her vagina who was this woman she she was an actress who was who was doing stripper who was also stripping and i think she wanted to make daddy mad

00:54:51Guest:uh-huh but you had a good relationship we did she was wonderful and and she was great and this show sounds crazy crazy crazy show and i mean when i'll tell you when a beautiful woman comes on state yeah naked yeah wow it just changes the temperature of the room historically yes yeah like i mean but a male doesn't like a male a naked male in a weird way is almost comic

00:55:15Guest:But a naked female is a very different thing.

00:55:19Guest:First of all, it makes gay men nervous.

00:55:21Guest:It makes women like jealous.

00:55:25Guest:They're looking at what the hell.

00:55:26Guest:And then straight men, well, they can't even talk.

00:55:29Marc:Right.

00:55:30Marc:That is funny about the observation about a naked man because then you're sort of like, oh, look at his dick.

00:55:36Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:55:36Guest:The only person that's intimidated is the only one is gay men because they're like, I like that.

00:55:41Marc:Well, straight men are sort of like, what's going on?

00:55:43Guest:Well, yeah, what's going on?

00:55:44Guest:But homophobia will rear its ugly head.

00:55:48Guest:But it was a wild, wild thing.

00:55:50Guest:In the end, I literally, I mean, we practically have sex.

00:55:55Guest:But that was what it was about.

00:55:56Guest:It was about that, I've got to understand the vagina.

00:56:00Guest:I've got to get over my, not fear, I wasn't frightened of it, but I was like, I need to know more about this.

00:56:08Guest:right it wasn't it wasn't necessarily desire driven no and i and i didn't leave this like it wasn't like when the show was over that oh i'm bisexual and gender fluid yeah no i remained gay and gender fluid but when you originally were dating women and you first experienced a vagina yes uh well i was young yeah you can you could no no i didn't fuck anything when you're young

00:56:31Guest:and i really liked her like we were really sure we were really do you know love yeah and you know her now yes oh yeah absolutely yes i do absolutely that's nice yeah and i we you know we didn't we didn't have sex a lot right and i was terrible yeah um i you know i shouldn't say anymore she's a married woman has children and i don't want to but you know yes we're friends absolutely

00:56:57Marc:So, and you said your family didn't handle it well at first?

00:57:01Guest:Did you ever do that with a cock?

00:57:03Guest:Did you ever go, I really shouldn't understand what it's like to have sex with a man?

00:57:07Guest:Sure, you know.

00:57:08Marc:But I think there was something that, you know, it's sort of like, you know, do I want to try something that might change my life permanently or am I okay?

00:57:17Guest:Right, exactly.

00:57:18Guest:because if it turned if let's say you discovered oh i'm maybe a little bi that's a huge difference but if i'm a gay guy and i discover that oh maybe i could have sex with women that brings me up in status yeah i don't know does it but being gay you fall i don't know oh god yes maybe not now the same way but yeah i'll never get i can't get over i can't get over my childhood

00:57:41Marc:right well there's a feeling that like for me like there's a lot of things i think i just don't you know i don't like i don't know if it's i don't know if it's repression or if it's just sort of protecting myself like you know you're afraid that maybe you might well you might enjoy it of course why wouldn't i wouldn't you but but so but but the thing is is like do you do i want to you know change my life that much but it comes with like a new car or anything yeah you know do i want to start doing whatever like hey what i don't think i'm holding myself you're telling me that

00:58:08Guest:I should have made a play for you 20 years ago when you were doing drugs.

00:58:12Marc:Is that what you're telling me?

00:58:13Marc:I think college would have been, that would have been the time.

00:58:15Marc:College is when I would have, I could have had you.

00:58:17Marc:Yeah.

00:58:17Marc:I think so.

00:58:18Marc:College.

00:58:18Marc:Yeah.

00:58:19Marc:At least you could have had me for like half of a thing.

00:58:22Marc:I would have maybe gotten halfway through it and said like, I can't, no, no, I can't.

00:58:26Marc:Oh my God.

00:58:27Marc:What am I now?

00:58:29Marc:So you would.

00:58:30Marc:What would we have done?

00:58:30Marc:What do you think?

00:58:31Marc:I don't know.

00:58:32Marc:I don't know you that well.

00:58:33Marc:I don't know what you do.

00:58:36Marc:You'd probably do whatever you could.

00:58:38Guest:I would do whatever I could, yes.

00:58:40Guest:I would do whatever I could.

00:58:42Marc:Whatever you got to get away with, you would do.

00:58:45Guest:Yeah, you're right.

00:58:46Guest:Exactly.

00:58:48Guest:You wouldn't, yeah, whatever was on the table, I would eat whatever was put in front of me.

00:58:54Guest:I know this isn't a buffet.

00:58:55Guest:You eat whatever's in front of you.

00:58:56Marc:Whatever this kid's going to offer.

00:58:59Marc:Whatever he's comfortable with for 10 minutes.

00:59:01Guest:You'd offer me a Brussels sprout?

00:59:02Guest:Yep, you'd gobble it down.

00:59:05Marc:But how did your family respond?

00:59:07Guest:Terrible.

00:59:08Guest:They actually disowned me.

00:59:11Guest:Isn't that hilarious?

00:59:12Guest:Really?

00:59:13Guest:Well, you think about today.

00:59:14Guest:How does that even happen?

00:59:15Guest:I know.

00:59:15Guest:My father said, you're no longer part of this family.

00:59:18Guest:Really?

00:59:19Guest:How old were you?

00:59:19Guest:23.

00:59:20Guest:Oh, my God.

00:59:22Guest:I know.

00:59:22Guest:We've come a long way.

00:59:24Guest:And that didn't last long.

00:59:26Guest:It lasted about six months.

00:59:27Marc:Yeah.

00:59:29Guest:My mother said, what are you doing?

00:59:32Guest:I don't care.

00:59:32Guest:Oh, Philip, please.

00:59:35Guest:you've got another gay son oh i don't what i do i didn't know that at the time you have two there were two of us yeah which is the which brother my one of my younger brothers oh yeah yeah he's gay too yeah so two gay ones two not yeah the one who helped me the hospital administrator

00:59:54Marc:Oh, yeah?

00:59:54Marc:Yeah.

00:59:55Marc:Oh, that's so... But you couldn't team up because... No!

00:59:58Guest:In fact, we were actually the least close growing up because I think we both suspected each other's secret.

01:00:05Guest:So therefore, we had to be really mean to each other so no one would think that we shared anything.

01:00:10Guest:So I was terrible to him.

01:00:13Marc:Oh, my God.

01:00:13Guest:Terrible.

01:00:14Guest:No kidding.

01:00:15Guest:Yeah.

01:00:16Marc:And that's repaired itself, obviously.

01:00:17Guest:Yes, but it took a long time.

01:00:19Marc:And what about the other brother?

01:00:21Marc:So there's four, and then the one who passed away.

01:00:24Guest:Yes.

01:00:25Guest:The oldest brother was fine.

01:00:27Guest:I mean, he wasn't fine when we were in high school.

01:00:30Guest:He was always going, don't.

01:00:32Guest:He'd be like, when we're in school, you don't say hi to me.

01:00:35Guest:You don't come near me.

01:00:37Guest:You pretend we don't know each other.

01:00:39Marc:But he's just living a normal life, straight man.

01:00:41Guest:Yeah, he was a good-looking, smart, athletic guy.

01:00:45Guest:Yeah, he's had a very...

01:00:46Guest:Made a lot of money, worked in the banks.

01:00:49Guest:He's a great guy, funny, hilarious guy.

01:00:51Marc:Yeah, and what about the other one?

01:00:52Guest:And then my other guy, my youngest brother, he's a comedian as well.

01:00:57Guest:In Canada?

01:00:58Guest:Yeah, he's an actor and he's married and has children and yeah.

01:01:02Marc:Does that right for himself?

01:01:04Guest:Yes, absolutely.

01:01:05Guest:He's a very funny guy.

01:01:07Marc:So now, some part of me thinks that you should kind of redo that show.

01:01:13Marc:Why won't you kind of reproduce that?

01:01:16Guest:Well, you know, I've thought about it.

01:01:19Guest:It is my, I have thought about it because after 9-11.

01:01:22Marc:Did you write it?

01:01:23Guest:Yes.

01:01:23Guest:You wrote it down?

01:01:24Guest:I wrote it with Paul Bellini.

01:01:25Guest:He was my writing partner.

01:01:26Guest:And I, basically what happened after 9-11 was we tried to redo it, but no one was interested after that.

01:01:32Guest:Sure.

01:01:33Guest:People were shocked and freaked out by it.

01:01:35Guest:Like, and I got into some trouble.

01:01:38Guest:Like people were, I can't, I'm not, I'm not really, I can't say too much.

01:01:42Guest:Yeah.

01:01:43Guest:He got into some trouble with the American government.

01:01:47Guest:Oh yeah?

01:01:47Guest:Yeah.

01:01:48Guest:Huh.

01:01:48Guest:So, you know, I would actually redo it.

01:01:52Guest:And it was about many, many things.

01:01:53Guest:It was about high school shooting violence.

01:01:56Guest:It was about... Really?

01:01:57Guest:Just a lot of different kinds of violence.

01:02:00Marc:Well, you could sort of rework it, too.

01:02:02Guest:I could.

01:02:03Marc:But, you know, but you're doing... So you did that, and you did the one after that, and then you got sick?

01:02:09Guest:uh scotastrophe was what i was doing when i got sick yeah and you were also working on the kids in the hall tour yes yes yes and then after that after i got better i that's when i decided i don't want to do anything where which has any um feeling in it i just want to do comedy because you know what i mean like i don't want to do anything where people go oh yeah right oh yeah so you the one man cancer show is out

01:02:33Guest:Yes.

01:02:34Guest:I mean, I definitely do a lot of comedy about cancer, but I don't like it when a comedian gets serious or maudlin.

01:02:48Marc:You know, and I know, I understand there's a lot of- See, there's a couple, then you wouldn't have wanted to fuck me in my 20s.

01:02:55Guest:Were you a modeling guy?

01:02:56Guest:Serious and modeling.

01:02:58Guest:Sweaty.

01:02:58Guest:Yeah, but I like the sweaty part.

01:03:03Guest:No, I would have.

01:03:03Guest:I remember meeting you many years ago, and I thought you were very attractive.

01:03:06Marc:Oh, thank you.

01:03:07Marc:Yeah, like at Largo or somewhere?

01:03:09Guest:Yes.

01:03:09Guest:Right.

01:03:10Guest:Don't you remember we did that dumb game show?

01:03:14Marc:Oh, the Nevermind the Buzzcocks.

01:03:15Guest:Yeah.

01:03:16Guest:Yeah, that's it.

01:03:16Marc:Oh, you were on there with me once?

01:03:18Guest:I was, yeah.

01:03:19Marc:Oh my God, it was so hazy to me.

01:03:21Guest:Yeah, that's it.

01:03:22Marc:It didn't ever caught on, thank God.

01:03:23Guest:No, I don't even remember what it was about.

01:03:25Marc:Yeah, it was a music show.

01:03:26Marc:It was based on a British show.

01:03:28Guest:Yeah.

01:03:28Marc:And I hosted, I think we did like 13 of them and they paid me.

01:03:31Marc:I was in the middle of my first divorce.

01:03:32Marc:I was very, like the week of shooting, I was ill.

01:03:36Guest:Yeah.

01:03:36Marc:Like I had the runs and I was feverish and I'd gotten all skinny.

01:03:40Marc:You were very thin.

01:03:41Guest:Yeah.

01:03:41Guest:I remember you were very thin.

01:03:43Marc:Yeah, I was like... My life was upside down.

01:03:45Marc:I had to take that job because I needed money.

01:03:48Marc:I didn't want to do that.

01:03:49Guest:Well, I must say, it didn't seem like a good fit.

01:03:52Marc:No.

01:03:52Guest:No.

01:03:53Guest:It did not seem like a good fit.

01:03:54Marc:Oh, it was a disaster.

01:03:56Marc:But, okay, so the comedy...

01:03:59Marc:So you choose not to be maudlin about it.

01:04:03Guest:Now I just, what I like, I just like, I like standup a lot because I just like how it's, you just have to be funny all the time.

01:04:09Marc:And how are you working?

01:04:10Marc:Like, before we get on to this, did any of the kids come up and see you when you were sick?

01:04:15Guest:Oh, they were wonderful.

01:04:17Guest:Because here's the thing.

01:04:18Guest:I was going through my treatment when we were making Death Comes to Town.

01:04:21Guest:Yeah.

01:04:22Guest:So when, I mean, I began the writing process with Kevin and Dave.

01:04:26Guest:Yeah.

01:04:26Guest:And then I, Kevin and Bruce.

01:04:28Guest:Yeah.

01:04:29Guest:And then I had to kind of take a bit of, and I did it all through my treatment.

01:04:32Guest:And then I had to kind of take a bit of time off because I got really ill.

01:04:36Guest:Yeah.

01:04:36Yeah.

01:04:36Guest:And then they did the schedule around my treatment.

01:04:42Guest:So I finished my chemotherapy.

01:04:43Guest:And within 10 days, I started principal shooting for the series.

01:04:48Guest:We shot for 10 weeks.

01:04:49Guest:Yeah.

01:04:50Guest:And the day after I finished shooting, I went into the hospital and started radiation.

01:04:55Guest:Yeah.

01:04:55Guest:Oh.

01:04:55Guest:And I kept it together for like two months.

01:04:59Guest:You know, I never was hospitalized the whole time.

01:05:02Guest:Yeah.

01:05:02Guest:I would go to the hospital sometimes, but I was never overnight.

01:05:05Guest:I never had to go in overnight.

01:05:06Guest:Right.

01:05:07Guest:And how many episodes did you do?

01:05:08Guest:We did eight.

01:05:09Guest:And I think that that was one of the things that kept me alive and saved my life.

01:05:14Guest:Because it was like the kids in the hall, we were back together.

01:05:16Guest:Yeah.

01:05:17Guest:This is what I've been wanting forever and ever.

01:05:19Guest:And I had a purpose and I had something to pour my energy into.

01:05:23Guest:Yeah.

01:05:24Guest:And they were, you know, I could be modeling now though, can't I?

01:05:28Guest:Yeah, sure.

01:05:29Guest:They were wonderful.

01:05:30Guest:And then when we did the final writing session, it was in Toronto, and they had a bed set up for me on the floor, like a mattress.

01:05:38Guest:And so I would basically lie on the floor where they all would work and there was other writers.

01:05:43Guest:And I would occasionally throw in stuff and then I'd go back to sleep or I'd leave and I'd go off and vomit and then smoke some pot and come back and say something else.

01:05:53Guest:And then sometimes one of them would come and lie down with me.

01:05:57Guest:I mean, they were beautiful.

01:06:00Guest:They were like perfect TV brothers.

01:06:05Guest:And they were very kind with me.

01:06:08Guest:And they also wanted to keep me alive for the show.

01:06:13Guest:And I understood that.

01:06:14Guest:They were like, he can't die.

01:06:16Guest:I mean, he can die after.

01:06:17Guest:Because if he dies right after, we're going to get some eyeballs on this show.

01:06:22Marc:Yeah.

01:06:23Marc:Well, you guys have known to see each other for so long.

01:06:26Guest:And so they were absolutely wonderful.

01:06:28Guest:Yeah, they were.

01:06:29Marc:Because it seems to me that despite or even whatever has happened in all of your lives, however you've grown up, it does seem that more so than most people who came up in a collective that you guys all seem to still like each other.

01:06:48Marc:We love each other.

01:06:49Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:06:49Guest:yeah i know you're like yeah yeah love no no no i know but it is love yeah that's the secret that is our secret we truly love each other i mean and when and how long ago like when how old were you when that started i was a kid yeah and i'm the oldest i mean dave was 18. yeah um we met oh well 85 25 30 years ago uh-huh

01:07:15Guest:Uh-huh.

01:07:15Guest:85?

01:07:16Guest:Uh-huh.

01:07:17Guest:How long ago is that?

01:07:18Guest:It's 15, 27, 32.

01:07:20Guest:Uh-huh.

01:07:21Guest:Holy fuck.

01:07:23Guest:yeah yeah we've been together forever and we've been together through everything like divorces and deaths and you know yeah more divorces and dave's divorces and you know your podcast about dave's divorce everything and and we've just we've done everything to each other we've hit each other we've you know we slept with each other's partners we've done terrible things to each other but there's nothing now that can destroy us

01:07:52Guest:yeah we were like we're at the point now we're like the you only leave in a hearse oh yeah it's like the mafia yeah you leave in a hearse and you stay in touch with people yes yeah and we're hopefully gonna do something soon and how was that that series the death one received well i love it but it no one saw it well like everything in our our careers we're always a little too ahead of the curve

01:08:16Marc:But what about in Canada?

01:08:17Marc:It did well in Canada.

01:08:19Guest:Here it was on IFC.

01:08:20Guest:It was one of their very first offerings.

01:08:23Guest:It didn't get an awful lot of attention.

01:08:25Marc:Well, I did a show on IFC for four seasons.

01:08:27Marc:It didn't get a lot of attention.

01:08:30Guest:That's true.

01:08:31Guest:You did.

01:08:31Guest:Yeah, I know.

01:08:32Guest:We got even less than you.

01:08:35Guest:Can you imagine, Mark?

01:08:36Marc:Less attention than your show.

01:08:38Marc:I don't even know if that's true.

01:08:39Marc:You do not know that that's true.

01:08:41Guest:No, but you're getting a lot of attention for GLOW.

01:08:43Marc:Yeah.

01:08:44Guest:You're excellent in GLOW.

01:08:45Marc:Oh, thank you.

01:08:45Marc:I really love you in GLOW.

01:08:46Marc:I appreciate that.

01:08:48Marc:Okay, so how are you approaching stand-up?

01:08:50Marc:What are you doing?

01:08:50Marc:You're up in Toronto before you came here?

01:08:53Guest:Yeah, what I did was I decided to basically reboot everything, and I decided to go back to my roots.

01:09:01Guest:And I just started plugging myself into the Toronto stand-up scene.

01:09:06Marc:Yeah.

01:09:07Marc:What are the clubs there now?

01:09:08Guest:A million clubs.

01:09:08Guest:Yeah.

01:09:09Guest:A million alternative clubs.

01:09:10Guest:Sure.

01:09:10Guest:And the regular clubs.

01:09:11Guest:Yeah.

01:09:12Guest:You know, yuck yucks and stuff.

01:09:13Marc:Sure.

01:09:14Guest:But I went through, I basically started, I would just show up to these places.

01:09:18Guest:Yeah.

01:09:18Guest:And I'd be like, what the hell are you doing here?

01:09:19Guest:And I'm like, I'm going to do a set.

01:09:21Guest:Yeah.

01:09:22Guest:I was sort of like moon doggy.

01:09:23Guest:Yeah.

01:09:23Guest:Like the old guy that can still surf.

01:09:26Guest:You know what I mean?

01:09:27Guest:Sure, man.

01:09:28Guest:Yeah.

01:09:28Guest:And so I just- I do know what you mean.

01:09:30Guest:Yeah.

01:09:30Guest:Well, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

01:09:32Guest:And I just started over and I went up with very little.

01:09:36Marc:i can never remember which town i'm in that has which clubs in canada you know like it's toronto the one comedy bar is the big one that you probably know that's the one where you go downstairs and there's two rooms yeah yeah yeah yeah that's it it's sort of out a little bit yes yeah yeah yes i did a lot of work there uh-huh toronto has the you know they have that famous the famous pot club have you ever been to that one yeah yeah i think i did was there once

01:09:58Guest:yeah with the pit bulls running around on stage oh i don't know it's a wild place it's like yeah i remember maybe you go there after you do a show yes yeah that's the place right so that's what happened i just kept doing and i just i started working material and um i just and my goal was i i my plan was that when i get an act yeah because before whenever i do i would do like beth lapidus is on cabaret that sort of thing right oh my god that's far back right she still sort of does she's still doing it yeah yeah

01:10:26Guest:But I would write a set, memorize it, or think I knew what I would go.

01:10:31Guest:I would go up and do it, and I would never repeat it.

01:10:34Guest:So that wasn't stand-up.

01:10:35Guest:But then I decide I'm going to get an act, and when I get an act, and when I feel confident enough, I'm going to move back to the States.

01:10:41Marc:So would you put together an hour, hour and a half?

01:10:43Guest:Yeah, and I just did my first album coming out.

01:10:45Guest:It's called Not a Fan.

01:10:46Guest:It's coming out next month.

01:10:48Marc:What's that title based on?

01:10:50Guest:It's just a funny title.

01:10:51Guest:It's a great headline for the critics who aren't fans.

01:10:55Marc:I know.

01:10:57Marc:I've done several albums.

01:10:58Marc:I did one called Not Sold Out.

01:10:59Guest:Oh, there we go.

01:11:00Marc:I did another one called Tickets Still Available.

01:11:02Guest:Oh, my God.

01:11:03Guest:It's very much like, this would be a good one for you.

01:11:05Guest:Yeah.

01:11:05Guest:I'm surprised your next one's not called Not a Fan.

01:11:07Marc:Final Engagement was another one.

01:11:09Marc:Yeah.

01:11:10Guest:Yeah, that's it.

01:11:12Guest:It's my first comedy album.

01:11:13Guest:I'm very excited about it.

01:11:15Marc:But you're going to release the album and then tour on the material?

01:11:19Guest:No, I can't do the material anymore.

01:11:22Marc:I know.

01:11:22Marc:That's what I'm told.

01:11:24Marc:I'm trying to rationalize.

01:11:25Marc:I don't know.

01:11:25Marc:I think with an album, you might be able to, but with a special that's on Netflix, it's harder.

01:11:30Guest:Well, I can't get a special on Netflix.

01:11:32Guest:I'm trying to get a special for my character, Buddy Cole.

01:11:35Guest:That's what I'm trying to do as well.

01:11:37Guest:I think they want him more than me.

01:11:39Guest:oh yeah yeah you're in talks yeah yeah i am in talks yes yes and then maybe he can like once he's in he can grease the wheels and get me in right but are you doing buddy cole shows yes i've been doing the buddy cole show regularly at ucb franklin oh yeah it's going very very well and what's the structure of that show

01:11:58Guest:It's called Aprello Deluge, After the Flood.

01:12:01Guest:And the premise is that it's Buddy Cole monologues since the kids in the hall went off the air.

01:12:07Guest:So it's 25 years.

01:12:08Guest:1995 until now.

01:12:11Guest:That's 23 years.

01:12:12Guest:Yeah.

01:12:13Guest:And basically it's like 10 monologues.

01:12:15Guest:Yeah.

01:12:15Guest:And you follow...

01:12:16Guest:The monologues, and so basically there's a history of Buddy Cole, and they're all about different topics and different stories.

01:12:22Guest:Yeah.

01:12:22Guest:And in between each monologue, I have a card boy.

01:12:25Guest:You know, like UFC, you have a card girl.

01:12:27Guest:Sure.

01:12:27Guest:But I have a boy.

01:12:28Marc:And what's he wearing?

01:12:29Guest:Very little.

01:12:30Guest:I mean, sometimes he wears a lot, but by the end, he's only in a jockstrap.

01:12:34Guest:Right.

01:12:35Guest:And I use what I do is I go into a town and then I get a young comic to be my card boy.

01:12:41Guest:And I prefer straight men because I want to sexually objectify them.

01:12:45Guest:Sure.

01:12:45Guest:And I'm also very... I find it funny with straight men because they're...

01:12:52Guest:trying to be sexy i find that amusing right because they're not like if they were trying to be gay sexy it'd be different it would be different they're sort of like trying to be like yeah what does it mean for a straight guy to be sexy in that and what my my the the sweet spot for me is a guy who's just starting to go to seed yeah right a little bit of a pot and that's what makes buddy crazy uh-huh

01:13:17Guest:And he's a little awkward and he's trying to dance.

01:13:20Guest:Yeah.

01:13:20Guest:And so that's it.

01:13:21Guest:And then they have cards.

01:13:23Guest:It's what's funnier.

01:13:23Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:13:24Guest:And then they have cards and they're like announcing the title and the year.

01:13:29Guest:And then at the end, we have a little scene.

01:13:33Guest:But whenever I go into a town, I pick a comic to be that card boy.

01:13:38Guest:So I have to pick a different... And they're willing?

01:13:41Yeah.

01:13:41Guest:Yeah, and I like to use stand-up comics.

01:13:43Guest:That's my favorite.

01:13:43Guest:Like, I would have you as a cardboard.

01:13:45Guest:I don't know.

01:13:46Guest:I know you would.

01:13:47Guest:I'm a little old.

01:13:48Guest:No, no, you're actually the sweet spot.

01:13:50Guest:You are going to see it.

01:13:52Guest:I'm not.

01:13:52Guest:Yeah, but you're going to see it in a- A little bit, yeah.

01:13:54Marc:You know, in a- I'm not doing it.

01:13:56Marc:No, but- No, I can't do it.

01:13:58Marc:But- All right, maybe.

01:14:00Guest:You're like grizzled in a- You're perfectly grizzled right now.

01:14:03Marc:It's right there?

01:14:04Marc:Perfectly grizzled.

01:14:05Marc:Oh, good, good.

01:14:06Marc:I'm just shy of just crumbling.

01:14:10Guest:Yeah.

01:14:11Marc:Or ornery, like an ornery old coot.

01:14:13Marc:Yeah, I might be heading that way.

01:14:15Marc:I'm a little open now.

01:14:17Marc:I think I've gotten less ornery, but I imagine that can come back.

01:14:21Guest:You're more open than you were.

01:14:22Marc:Mm-hmm.

01:14:22Guest:Yeah.

01:14:23Guest:So maybe you're moving away from ornery.

01:14:25Marc:I am a little.

01:14:26Guest:You used to be more of a grumpy old man when you were younger.

01:14:29Marc:I think if you were to talk to my girlfriend, it's all still in place.

01:14:35Marc:Oh, really?

01:14:36Marc:The grumpy old man.

01:14:37Marc:I think my public persona has opened up.

01:14:40Marc:My private persona is still a little tough.

01:14:44Okay.

01:14:44Marc:Still a lot of gristle on the meat.

01:14:47Marc:A little cranky, yeah.

01:14:51Guest:So you've been back how long?

01:14:53Guest:Just over a year.

01:14:54Guest:I came back the week before Trump was inaugurated.

01:14:56Marc:Yeah.

01:14:57Guest:I felt I was needed.

01:14:58Marc:Yeah.

01:14:59Marc:Well, maybe you are.

01:15:00Guest:Well, I think you really need outsiders.

01:15:03Marc:I was ready to come to your country.

01:15:06Marc:I was ready to go.

01:15:06Marc:Oh, you don't want to go to Canada.

01:15:08Marc:Why do people say that?

01:15:09Guest:Because you think you want it, but you don't.

01:15:11Marc:No, you just want to have that.

01:15:13Marc:I guess so.

01:15:14Marc:I don't know.

01:15:14Marc:I'm at an age where, what do I really need?

01:15:17Guest:Well, if you've given up your dreams of, like, superstardom, then go to Canada.

01:15:22Marc:Uh-huh.

01:15:22Marc:Well, no, I just mean, like, there was a discomfort.

01:15:24Marc:Like, we still don't know what the... I'm not running away.

01:15:29Marc:Obviously, I'm engaged and I live here.

01:15:31Marc:But I don't know...

01:15:33Marc:I don't know what my country looks like anymore.

01:15:35Marc:You know, it's right now.

01:15:36Marc:I think it's going to be okay.

01:15:39Guest:I do.

01:15:40Guest:I'm not worried at all.

01:15:41Guest:Oh, good for you.

01:15:42Marc:No, I'm not worried at all.

01:15:43Guest:Because I've seen worse.

01:15:45Guest:What have you seen worse?

01:15:46Guest:Oh, please.

01:15:47Guest:You have to remember, I'm a gay man, okay?

01:15:49Guest:Like nothing's ever going to be as bad as my youth.

01:15:53Guest:Nothing's ever going to touch the HIV epidemic.

01:15:56Guest:So for me, it's all gravy.

01:15:59Guest:It's all peacetime for me.

01:16:00Guest:Yeah.

01:16:01Guest:So I go, nothing's ever going to touch your friends dying like flies.

01:16:05Guest:Yeah.

01:16:06Guest:Thinking about every sexual act is going to kill you.

01:16:08Guest:Watching a society turn away from you and watch you die.

01:16:11Guest:That's just never going to be... Right.

01:16:13Guest:It's just never going to be that bad.

01:16:15Guest:And so maybe that's... It's a little selfish of me to go, ah, get over it.

01:16:20Guest:Sure.

01:16:20Guest:You got it good.

01:16:21Guest:And I... So I really believe... And I look back at like George Bush Jr.

01:16:25Guest:And I'm like, how come people are giving him such a...

01:16:27Guest:you know a free ride i'm like he invaded sovereign countries he's responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of people in the middle east for all of donald trump's like you know boorishness he's not responsible for all those deaths yet yet but you can't punish a man for something he might do he's not a good guy

01:16:50Marc:that's not the point no i know neither was george bush no one who becomes president is a good guy no i understand that i understand that bill clinton who everybody worships created don't ask don't tell and the defense of marriage act right so you know like we're moving towards the thing though where you know put you know getting rid of all the protections environmental protections those those things aren't good right i'm just saying that he's criticizable

01:17:14Guest:Of course he's criticizable.

01:17:16Guest:I'm not a defender.

01:17:17Guest:I'm just saying I don't see it as the end of the world yet.

01:17:23Marc:Okay.

01:17:23Guest:And it might be.

01:17:25Marc:Yeah.

01:17:25Marc:But you're okay.

01:17:26Marc:You survived cancer.

01:17:28Guest:This is the thing.

01:17:28Guest:I'm okay.

01:17:29Guest:And it's interesting because I see so many comedians paralyzed.

01:17:33Guest:And I don't know if it's because I'm Canadian.

01:17:35Guest:Is it my age?

01:17:36Guest:Is it the fact that I'm a gay man who's seen a lot of shit?

01:17:40Marc:Paralyzed how?

01:17:41Guest:In terms of they're so freaked out by Donald Trump being in power.

01:17:44Guest:Right.

01:17:46Guest:And also political correctness is making them uncomfortable, especially straight white guys.

01:17:50Guest:Yeah.

01:17:50Guest:They are like, well, I can't say anything.

01:17:52Guest:And I have, I'm kind of free.

01:17:55Guest:I'm like, I don't have any of that.

01:17:57Guest:I don't worry about, I'm like, I'm not going to apologize for being white or male.

01:18:01Guest:I'm a gay man in my late fifties.

01:18:03Guest:I got nothing to apologize.

01:18:05Guest:You know what I mean?

01:18:06Guest:Like if you want to like, if we want to have like, you know, enter like my generation in the victimization sweepstakes, we win.

01:18:15Guest:Yeah.

01:18:15Guest:And that's a strange power nowadays in this world we live in.

01:18:19Guest:So I'm not worried by political correctness and I'm not paralyzed by Donald Trump's presidency.

01:18:28Marc:Well, no, I think everyone has to sort of, we do have to kind of fight through that.

01:18:32Marc:I mean, it's the way the country works.

01:18:34Guest:And comedy, like I think comedians have to remember, you've got to be funny.

01:18:39Guest:And virtue signaling or letting everybody know that you're on the right page politically isn't funny.

01:18:46Guest:Right, right.

01:18:47Guest:We need to get past that.

01:18:48Guest:No one really cares.

01:18:50Right.

01:18:50Guest:Right?

01:18:52Marc:No, I think being funny.

01:18:53Marc:And if you can do a little bit of virtue signaling and be funny?

01:18:56Marc:No, no.

01:18:56Marc:You can't?

01:18:57Marc:No.

01:18:57Marc:They're completely exclusive.

01:18:59Marc:I think so.

01:19:01Guest:No, I think a person, they should leave a comedy show and go, wow, that person was hilarious.

01:19:07Guest:I'm not sure what their politics are.

01:19:09Marc:Oh, I don't know if I completely agree with that.

01:19:12Guest:I want people to go, I like that guy, but I can't tell if he's evil or good.

01:19:17Marc:No, you're evil.

01:19:22Guest:Okay.

01:19:22Guest:Okay, I'm evil.

01:19:25Guest:That's the nicest thing it was said to me today.

01:19:29Guest:You're evil.

01:19:31Guest:And that came out quick.

01:19:34Marc:Well, you're cute evil.

01:19:37Guest:Cute evil, yes.

01:19:38Guest:Impish.

01:19:39Guest:Can we just say impish?

01:19:40Marc:Sure.

01:19:41Guest:Yeah.

01:19:41Marc:So since you've been back, is the work coming your way?

01:19:44Marc:Are you reintegrating?

01:19:45Marc:What's happening?

01:19:46Marc:Yes.

01:19:47Marc:Oh, good.

01:19:47Guest:I'm doing a ton of stand-up, a ton of live performing.

01:19:50Guest:I'm not auditioning a lot.

01:19:51Guest:I'm not getting acting roles, but they're going to come.

01:19:55Marc:And what was, did you, like I was at the Shanley Memorial.

01:19:59Marc:Did you come down for that or were you sick?

01:20:01Guest:I was sick.

01:20:02Marc:You weren't in town.

01:20:02Guest:I wasn't in town, yeah.

01:20:04Guest:No, I loved Gary Shanley.

01:20:05Guest:He was amazing.

01:20:06Marc:How long were you on that show?

01:20:08Guest:Three years.

01:20:09Marc:And you had a good relationship?

01:20:10Guest:Very much so, yeah.

01:20:11Marc:Sweet guy, right?

01:20:12Guest:sweet guy what i loved about gary was like a brilliant comedian yeah i mean a genius yeah but a good man yeah and that's not always the case yeah and um you knew gary a little bit a little bit yeah not a lot i mean i talked to him in here i can't say i knew him

01:20:28Guest:He was amazing.

01:20:29Guest:I mean, he really inspired me to do stand up in a way because he took it on late.

01:20:37Guest:He didn't start off that way.

01:20:38Guest:And what I loved about the way he worked was he was always working.

01:20:45Guest:Like when we would do the show, he was never satisfied.

01:20:48Guest:He was always thinking about a better line or a better way to attack this right up until they called action.

01:20:55Guest:And even when we were performing, he would still go, I know there's something better here.

01:21:01Guest:And I really admired that.

01:21:02Guest:And I also admired the fact that he didn't care where a suggestion came from.

01:21:06Guest:I wouldn't say he was egoless, but he didn't care if it was a writer or an actor or a grip.

01:21:12Guest:He didn't care.

01:21:13Guest:Yeah.

01:21:14Marc:If it served the funny.

01:21:15Guest:If it served the funny.

01:21:16Guest:Yeah, I think he's one of the greatest comic minds I've ever come in contact with, and also one of the great people.

01:21:26Guest:Yeah.

01:21:27Guest:So are you, my friend.

01:21:28Guest:Oh, I thought it was evil and impish.

01:21:30Marc:Yeah, but aren't we all?

01:21:32Guest:Yeah.

01:21:32Guest:Well, comedians are a little evil.

01:21:34Marc:Yeah, you gotta have a little.

01:21:35Marc:You ride the line.

01:21:37Guest:Because you want to stir shit up.

01:21:38Marc:Yeah.

01:21:39Guest:But that's a good thing.

01:21:41Marc:It's not evil.

01:21:42Marc:It's just a portal into the shadow.

01:21:45Guest:Well, don't you think that's our job?

01:21:46Marc:Yes.

01:21:47Marc:To bring things out of the darkness?

01:21:48Marc:A little bit.

01:21:49Marc:Into the light?

01:21:49Marc:Yeah, it's not exclusively our job.

01:21:51Guest:But.

01:21:52Marc:It's nice if you can get some of that in there.

01:21:53Guest:Well, what else is there?

01:21:55Marc:I'll tell you what.

01:21:55Marc:You know what else there is?

01:21:57Marc:Giving people a little relief.

01:21:59Guest:Well, exactly.

01:22:00Marc:Sure.

01:22:00Guest:So, like Holy Prostitutes.

01:22:03Marc:There you go.

01:22:03Marc:That's the name of your new show.

01:22:04Guest:I like that.

01:22:05Guest:Holy Prostitute.

01:22:09Marc:You keep it.

01:22:11Guest:Okay.

01:22:11Guest:All right.

01:22:11Guest:Great talking to you, buddy.

01:22:12Guest:Nice to talk to you.

01:22:17Marc:That was me and Scott.

01:22:19Marc:So check him out if he's in your town with his character, Buddy Cole, doing the new Buddy monologues.

01:22:25Marc:And also look for Buddy Cole's autobiography, Buddy Babylon.

01:22:29Marc:And it was a pleasure to talk to Scott.

01:22:32Marc:This is me signing off after having a great vacation and five-city European tour.

01:22:40Marc:I'll talk to you back in the States.

01:22:43Marc:And yeah.

01:22:46Marc:Boomer lives!