Episode 907 - Aisha Tyler / Louie Anderson
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucksters?
Marc:What the fuckineers?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast, WTF.
Marc:I'm in London, England.
Marc:I'm fiddling with a control knob because I'm festering obsessively about sound.
Marc:That seems to be the new thing.
Marc:Why think about the world when I can think about sound?
Marc:Why think about the...
Marc:the horrendous horror of modern life politically and globally when I can just fiddle with a dial?
Marc:Why don't I just fiddle with a knob?
Marc:On the show, two doubleheader, kinda.
Marc:Well, I got a short one with the amazing and funny, and I'm always happy to see, Louis Anderson.
Marc:And then the longer one, Aisha Tyler is here, yeah.
Marc:So those are good guests for this show, huh?
Marc:I'm in London.
Marc:I'm going to do a show tonight.
Marc:Tonight I'm doing a show.
Marc:If you haven't got tickets, I think it might have sold out at Royal Festival Hall here in London.
Marc:I'm very excited.
Marc:I'm anxious.
Marc:I found myself...
Marc:kind of spiraling surrounded by yellow pads and post-its in an airport lounge in my travels when I was waiting at Kennedy Airport for seven hours because I got there a little early.
Marc:I've outdone my mother.
Marc:It's not three hours ahead.
Marc:I got there seven hours just to make sure I was settled and actually knew people who worked at the airport by the time I got on the plane.
Marc:I wanted to build relationships with
Marc:at the airport before I was leaving because I was feeling sort of lonely.
Marc:And I just, you know, I thought it was important that I get to know the person at Hudson News after going there three times for this or that.
Marc:I'm a little, I'm a bit jet lagged.
Marc:So if I'm not coming across completely, I'm jet lagged.
Marc:And Sarah, the painter is like in the room here.
Marc:I'm not looking at her because I can't play.
Marc:I'm not going to make her an audience.
Marc:She's doing her work.
Marc:And this is my work, which is loud.
Marc:but I'm not even looking back at her because I don't want to feel like I have an audience or that I'm not saying the right thing.
Marc:See, look, she's pretending like I'm not even here.
Marc:That's the biggest joke.
Marc:She's just sitting there like, I'm just looking at my computer.
Marc:There's not a man yelling into a microphone over there at the desk.
Marc:So what have I been up to?
Marc:Thanks for asking.
Marc:I, um...
Marc:I've traveled intensely for a couple of days in many different types of vessels.
Marc:I flew from LA to JFK on Wednesday night.
Marc:I slept at the Crowne Plaza airport.
Marc:Those airport hotels, there's no way not to be there and not think that something fucked up is happening.
Marc:Like, what is going on here?
Marc:What is really happening?
Marc:Well, I don't know why they're gnarly, but maybe it's just people in transit.
Marc:Maybe I'm projecting.
Marc:I probably am.
Marc:But I thought there was it seemed like there was some some there seemed to be some Russian collusion going on at the Crown Plaza.
Marc:outside of the airport i maybe i don't know what was happening i you know there were pilots and it was a strange glimpse into that moment when i'm checking in and then you see flight crews checking in and you realize that is not an easy life these are the hotels they stay at all the time so i stayed there a night then i got up early in the morning i went back to the airport rented a hertz rental car you know sometimes i decide to treat myself well and i i want to rent a nice car and i thought i had rented like the infinity and
Marc:smaller SUV because me and Dino, Dean Delray had gotten one of those when we did a trip to Colorado.
Marc:And that's what I thought I was getting.
Marc:When I got to the airport, I went to the stall number and it was a full on black Cadillac Escalade, a giant car that when I got in it, I'm like, I guess this is what I'm doing.
Marc:Then I realized like, wait, should I be driving somebody?
Marc:Am I picking up a celebrity?
Marc:Am I looping around?
Marc:Is maybe Kanye going to get in and I'm going to take him out to Western Massachusetts?
Marc:Or am I just going to pretend like this is the car that I chose to drive myself around in?
Marc:I opted out of that.
Marc:I got a Charger.
Marc:I got one of those, what is it, Dodge?
Marc:One of those rockets.
Marc:Because I think if I do that once a year, if I rent one of those cot cars, one of those muscle cars, one of those...
Marc:you know alpha extension look at me go cars uh if i do that once a year that that cuts down on the possibility that i'll impulse buy one uh in the future so it's good that i get it out of my system so then i drove that all the way to western mass to north adams where i was doing a gig a talk at a wow come on man seriously
Marc:Yeah, Williams.
Marc:Thank you, Sarah.
Marc:See, that's how, that's the fun part of going out with a middle-aged man.
Marc:Let's just fill in the gaps of his eroding memory.
Marc:Williams College, I did, I don't think I told you about this because I didn't see a need to promote it because I didn't think that many of you would, it would be, I didn't think there's going to be a rush on my conversation about the quote-unquote art of secular Jewish intimacy in conversation, but
Marc:With Jeffrey Israel, the teacher out there, professor of religious studies.
Marc:And I didn't really know what I was getting into or what that meant.
Marc:But the good thing is he didn't have a clear idea either.
Marc:And it was just a nice conversation.
Marc:I think we touched on the topic.
Marc:We dealt with the themes.
Marc:I got some laughs.
Marc:The crowd was good.
Marc:I enjoyed being at Williams for a few hours.
Marc:I saw some old family friends.
Marc:And then the next day, I drove back to New York City in my Dodge Charger.
Marc:The thrill of those cars, I would think of any fast car like that, is lost in that you can't really drive as fast as they want to go.
Marc:And you just find pockets where you sit there ruminating in the car where it's sort of like, oh, man, this thing could go so fast.
Marc:But I got to be cool.
Marc:I'll just put it on cruise control.
Marc:I don't want to get a ticket.
Marc:And then if you're driving long enough, which I was, four hours, at certain points, you're like...
Marc:Fuck it.
Marc:I'm going to roll the dice.
Marc:And you just open it up to 80, 90 miles an hour.
Marc:They can go 150.
Marc:I was barely doing nothing.
Marc:You kind of work through the script in your head when you get pulled over what you're going to say.
Marc:Yeah, I just didn't realize the power, officer.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:It's a rent-a-car, and I had no idea that it would feel so good to step on the gas and go that fast.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:What did I say?
Marc:I meant to say I didn't know how fast I was going.
Marc:So, oh, I forgot to mention.
Marc:I went to, I forgot to mention, I went to Mass Mocha, the giant museum of contemporary art up there in North Adams, which was spectacular.
Marc:It was like great, it was like all, it was this giant, I think it's like an old mill complex.
Marc:just old brick buildings, huge spaces for art.
Marc:And in that one of those huge spaces for art, I sat down in a chair with a virtual reality rig on my head and entered a Laurie Anderson art piece in a huge building.
Marc:I was in another reality.
Marc:Okay, you're up to speed.
Marc:I'm freaking out about the show tonight.
Marc:I've got a lot of new material.
Marc:I've got to integrate some classic stuff.
Marc:Classic is a way of saying old.
Marc:It's not old.
Marc:All right, so...
Marc:When I got a request that Louie Anderson wanted to come on and talk about his new book, I was like, of course Louie can come over.
Marc:I would love Louie Anderson to come over.
Marc:He's such a pleasant man.
Marc:And he came over to my new house.
Marc:He did a walkthrough.
Marc:He enjoyed my rugs.
Marc:And he liked the new house.
Marc:And then we went to the garage.
Marc:And he had some comments about the chair.
Marc:He feels I should get a more comfortable chair for guests so they lose themselves.
Marc:But then I told him that that's the Obama chair.
Marc:And I don't think that changed his mind much.
Marc:But Louie has a new book out.
Marc:It's called Hey, Mom, Stories for My Mother.
Marc:But you can read them, too.
Marc:It's available now wherever you get books.
Marc:And this is me and Louie Anderson back in the new garage.
Marc:First of all, congratulations on the, what is it, the third season now?
Guest:Yeah, third season of Baskets.
Guest:Or as some people say, I love you on buckets.
Guest:On buckets.
Guest:And last year you won an Emmy, right?
Guest:First year, yeah, first year I won the Emmy.
Guest:Last year Trump won the Emmy.
Guest:Trump won?
Guest:I mean, Baldwin.
Marc:That's right, Baldwin, that's right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But so you did the third season, people love it, and then on the cover you're in drag, on the cover of the book.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hey, Mom.
Guest:It's good, isn't it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's the episode I won the Emmy for, the Easter brunch episode.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:It was a lot of fun.
Guest:So how did the book, how did it come to be?
Guest:I was overwhelmed one day after playing the part, basically, or feeling it.
Guest:I started feeling different about my mom, because I'm playing a mom.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I went home, and my phone wrote...
Guest:I just started writing a letter to her.
Guest:Hey mom, how are ya?
Guest:I'm sorry I haven't written for so long.
Guest:She's been gone for a long time.
Guest:But I hadn't, I talk to her all the time.
Guest:You do?
Guest:Yeah, I talk to people, my dad and my mom.
Guest:Really?
Guest:My brothers and sisters.
Marc:When you're just at home?
Guest:You know, when I'm out somewhere, I might go, look at this setup, huh?
Guest:Right?
Guest:My dad, look at this setup, huh?
Guest:You need 10 minutes in here, Dad.
Guest:You could get this all straightened out.
Guest:He's got a mishmash.
Guest:I don't know what he's doing with these things.
Guest:Trying to reach these.
Guest:It looks Scientology-ish to me.
Guest:I got obsessed with the sound.
Guest:But that's your dad, huh?
Guest:That's my dad.
Guest:Look at this setup.
Guest:What is this?
Guest:Is this a craftsman house?
Guest:They're so dingy and dark, for God's sake.
Guest:You got to open up at least part of the roof to get some damn light in.
Guest:And my mom would go, hey, would you ever consider selling that rug?
Yeah.
Guest:Wow, kid, that's a beauty.
Guest:What is that, a 9x12?
Guest:Is it an 8x6?
Guest:I have a perfect spot for that.
Guest:If you're ever going to get rid of it, I wish you would just let me know.
Guest:So your parents exist in you all the time.
Guest:All the time.
Marc:I never thought about the practical therapeutic benefits of that.
Guest:It's good because I have actually thought...
Guest:I just was mean to that person, Dad, because of you, because you were mean.
Guest:That's how I got that voice.
Guest:I never was mean.
Guest:You were mean, then I learned how to be mean, and now I'm mean, but it's really you yelling at the person at the airline.
Guest:Oh, that's interesting.
Guest:It's hard to explain that to the person at the airline.
Guest:Yeah, I always have to go back as my mother and go, listen.
Guest:so sorry because it's really true because i i i will always go and apologize and go listen that wasn't me that was just i'm really sorry i don't know what got into me yeah i'm fat yes hungry and i'm so i'm hangry i'm hangry which i hate that expression angry but uh but so that's interesting though so you you're in constant conversation with these uh with these parents that have been gone a long time but your brothers and sisters too
Guest:Yeah, like I'll say to my brother, you know, yeah, we've lost seven, believe it or not, out of 11.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:So I'll say, I wish I would have done more to help you.
Guest:I wish I could have helped you be healthier.
Guest:I wish I could have saved you.
Guest:You know, because I have a, you know, when you grow up in a big family like that, it's kind of like growing up in a commune, you know?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Everybody has their place, and you're part of all them.
Guest:I'm part of my sister Mary, who loved to eat, and my mom, who loved to eat.
Guest:And I'm part of my dad, who loved to indulge in alcohol, that addiction I have.
Guest:But I don't compulsively eat anymore, so I feel like I just feel so grateful for that.
Guest:You feel better, right?
Guest:Yeah, because I used to...
Guest:I still size up all the food I come across.
Guest:I'm at a hotel and they have free a cauldron of pretzels that you can take.
Guest:And then they have a cauldron of cookies next to the cauldron of pretzels.
Guest:I guess for a healthy or a not healthy choice.
Guest:And then they have all the free sodas, juices in a little refrigerator that you can just take.
Guest:Like you can just take it, I say.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, take all you want.
Guest:Can I empty it?
Guest:Because I'm a poor kid.
Guest:You know, like I'm never going to have anything again.
Guest:Can I have it all?
Guest:And so, but I have to, I talk to myself about that.
Guest:But what about when it's in the room, man?
Guest:They have it in the room too, but I don't, the mini bar thing, because it's a rip off in my mind.
Guest:So I just go, I'm not going to, and also, if you don't have anything in the mini bar,
Guest:then that's the key.
Guest:Are you telling them to empty it?
Guest:I always empty, no, but I always take everything out and put my water and stuff in the little fridge.
Marc:But like after a show, you don't go back and eat the candy bar?
Marc:No, no.
Marc:Do you?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:I don't know what else to do.
Marc:I'm trying to reward myself.
Guest:Well, I always have the protein bars with me.
Guest:Oh yeah, which ones?
Guest:Quest usually, because they're the least good tasting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not, I mean in a bad way, but they're the least sugary.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:There's...
Guest:One gram of sugar in them.
Guest:Oh, that's not bad.
Guest:Yes, and like 28 grams of protein.
Guest:Oh, great.
Guest:So I need it, because when you're stopped compulsively eating, you forget to eat.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, because you're either all in or all out.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, I have to have a...
Guest:Schedule and that.
Guest:But the hard part is when you're on the road or when you're doing a book tour, you know this.
Guest:You're going everywhere in one day.
Guest:You're going to over 100 places.
Guest:Doing like three bookstores in a day.
Guest:It's like doing drugs.
Guest:It's like kind of a drug type of thing.
Guest:Oh, with the junket thing.
Guest:So you do a radio show, then you go to the store, and then you're going to do a dinner or whatever.
Guest:Yes, but no, I mean you go to the radio, then you go do a radio, you go do a TV, you go do a podcast, then you go.
Guest:So you got to plan lunch in there because the agents and managers will fill up all the time.
Guest:Right.
Guest:They don't care about you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They care about getting the book on.
Marc:Selling that thing out.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So this book, what did you learn about yourself doing this?
Guest:how ungrateful I was to my mom at times.
Guest:But I also understood that I was good to her too.
Guest:But I learned mostly, man, you should ask your parents what you want to ask them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because...
Guest:You won't get, when they go, you don't get a chance.
Guest:Like I would like to know in my mom, I was like, how did you, what was it with dad?
Guest:Why would you stick with this monster that long?
Guest:Was it just a time thing where when you have 11 children in the 60s, you don't, or 50s, you don't...
Guest:Where are you gonna go with 10 kids?
Guest:Nobody's gonna take you in.
Guest:There's no shelters back then.
Marc:Sure, and what are you gonna do with your life?
Guest:I think was a big question.
Guest:And my mom, this is a great, this is one thing about my mom.
Guest:When my dad quit drinking when he was 69, my mom turned to me and said, I told you he'd quit.
Guest:And I said, that's...
Guest:Even then, I knew that was really the pathology of our family.
Guest:As long as it works out at some point.
Guest:Yeah, you're validated.
Guest:Yeah, you're validated.
Guest:She won, I guess.
Guest:I guess.
Guest:She never gave up.
Guest:Did he become a better person after he quit?
Guest:No, he has beaten her.
Guest:No one's worse than he went to one AA meeting and went, I don't need this fucking AA.
Guest:And then we had to quit going to Al-Anon, because we didn't have any strength with that.
Guest:With alcoholism, everything works off the alcoholic and the alcoholism.
Guest:It all fuels.
Guest:When you get home, you say, you think he's drinking?
Guest:when you walk in that's your big question right that's an unfortunate thing to grow up with i always say it's like fallout yeah you know of course like shrapnel yeah it is it's like what is that that's me yeah that's me louis louis you're the laziest human being in the world right yeah and i go well thank you father he goes it's not a compliment
Guest:That's how I was made it come bad.
Guest:And then my mom would chime in, well, you did say world, Andy.
Guest:And if he was, wouldn't that be something?
Guest:She had it all worked out.
Guest:My mom was the loveliest.
Guest:You would have loved my mom, honestly.
Guest:You would have loved her, yeah.
Guest:She's every good part of me.
Guest:Every good part of me is my mom.
Marc:That's sweet.
Marc:But right, so what do you mean you quit going out on it after he went to 1AA meeting?
Guest:Yeah, and so he kind of threw a bucket of water on all that.
Guest:We didn't know.
Guest:We didn't have any self-worth.
Guest:He owned all of us.
Guest:He owned all of us.
Guest:But I wish my mom would have kept going.
Guest:I think it could have changed her and maybe she could have left.
Marc:Or at least had a little more boundaries for herself.
Guest:And then people who quit drinking
Guest:find ways to be meaner in some other kind of side.
Marc:If they don't do the other work.
Guest:If they're dry drunks.
Guest:I'm a little dry myself.
Guest:Are you?
Guest:These days, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, you haven't been going to meetings?
Guest:No.
Guest:I'm going to a meeting tonight because I said, damn it, get to the meeting.
Guest:Then I looked at where it was and I went, you're still going.
Guest:Because the traffic here is almost unbearable.
Guest:I don't know how people even go out of their house.
Guest:If I had a job, I'd just quit it.
Guest:I wouldn't drive every day like that.
Guest:It's the worst.
Marc:I wouldn't be able to do it.
Marc:It's just fucking horrible.
Marc:There's no rhyme or reason to it.
Marc:It's every day, all day long.
Guest:Let's go back to when they were odd and even days.
Marc:You're right.
Marc:I like to go out late at night.
Marc:I like when I drive home from the comedy store at midnight on a Tuesday.
Marc:I'm like, this is how it's supposed to be.
Guest:This is how it was when you moved here.
Guest:Yeah, you can just drive.
Guest:You remember in the 80s when it was really not too bad.
Guest:Not too bad.
Guest:Now when I come here, I just go, how did they do it?
Guest:I don't know what the hell's going on because it's not going to get any better.
Guest:And you can't get mad at anyone really about it.
Guest:Because you're all in the same boat.
Guest:Yeah, it's just, it's despair.
Guest:Because how does it change?
Guest:It doesn't change.
Guest:And that's when you might yell at your mother if you had to be in the car with her.
Guest:Why she was going on those times.
Guest:My mom would go, well, look at this.
Guest:Now, what kind of car is that, Louie?
Guest:Oh, God.
Marc:Why aren't you angry?
Marc:My mom was just here.
Guest:I gotta read how you handled it.
Guest:I don't get along with her as good as I want to.
Guest:Why don't you become friends with her and stop thinking of her as your mother?
Guest:That was always the problem.
Guest:You never thought of her as your mother?
Guest:Who are you?
Guest:Just some lady I grew up with.
Guest:Listen, can I tell you how valuable it would be?
Guest:You gotta just start hanging out with her.
Guest:You gotta bite the bullet.
Guest:Listen, she put up with you all those years.
Guest:Kind of.
Guest:Is a young boy, though, didn't she?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I think she... Yeah, I mean... Well, why don't you have those conversations?
Guest:Because, you know, but you've got to put out and go to the dinner and sit through it.
Guest:And you've got to... Like, God, she knows everything about you, and she knows everything.
Guest:You need to know everything about her.
Guest:I'm trying.
Marc:So you can get...
Marc:I'm not telling you what to do.
Marc:No, but she came over, because I got the new house, and it's got a guest room.
Marc:I thought, this will be good.
Marc:It's grown up someplace for my mother to stay.
Marc:I can't wait for the complaint she made.
Marc:Oh, she didn't?
Marc:No, she's so scared of me that she just walks on eggshells.
Marc:But she came out, and I'm like, there's the room.
Marc:It's nice.
Marc:I immediately got physically ill when she got here.
Marc:I was like, oh, I'm sick.
Marc:And then after two days, I was just sort of like...
Marc:now I'm never going to get her to stay at a hotel again.
Guest:Where does she live?
Guest:Florida.
Guest:Oh, yeah, she probably doesn't even want to.
Marc:She must have had fun, though.
Marc:No, it was fun.
Marc:I guess it's just hard because it's not that we weren't close, but I don't quite know how to be around her for more than a day.
Guest:Because you are selfish.
Guest:And what does she like to do?
Guest:You find out what she likes to do and go do it.
Guest:I bought her a purse.
Guest:That's nice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We went shopping.
Guest:We went to see art.
Guest:There you go.
Guest:Yeah, we did stuff.
Guest:You did stuff?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What is her hang around thing in Florida?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Does she play cards at all?
Guest:Does she do any kind of thing?
Marc:She likes to walk her dogs and she does her exercises.
Marc:She goes to the Pilates and they go sit at the pool sometimes.
Marc:Maybe they play cards.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:Maybe that's a secret.
Marc:It sounds like you were nice to her and you were just hard on yourself.
Marc:I was nice.
Marc:Well, that's, yeah, I was.
Marc:I was sad that I got ill.
Marc:And I don't think it was her fault, but she got here the day after.
Guest:Oh, you got sick?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, physically sick?
Guest:Yeah, physically sick.
Marc:And I felt bad.
Marc:Did she take care of you?
Marc:Oh, no, that's her thing.
Marc:She's like, I'm not, that Florence Nightingale thing's not for me.
Marc:Did she say that?
Marc:She said it all my life.
Guest:Oh, you have to talk to her about that.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Why not?
Guest:Like, what isn't the right thing to say?
Guest:Go, Mom, what does that mean?
Guest:That means I never took care of you.
Guest:You should say, that really screwed me up.
Guest:She does.
Guest:I've done it from the stage.
Guest:I've done it on the podcast.
Guest:All she says now, she's like, I'm sorry.
Guest:I know, but what?
Guest:She's gotten better.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:Because maybe she was trying to make you stronger.
Marc:I think she just didn't know how to really do it.
Guest:Maybe no one, you know, did you ever ask her how it was for her?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, I talk about that.
Guest:And so that must have been hard, right?
Marc:Yeah, I think with my parents' generation, they didn't know how to be parents.
Marc:It didn't come natural.
Guest:Listen, because it was, I don't think it,
Guest:They knew, because they were raised by people who just kind of pushed them out in the yard and said, get the lawn done, right?
Guest:You know, back in those days, you had a bunch of chores.
Guest:My dad talked about it like he had built the house himself.
Guest:You know, I don't know if you know this, Louie, but not everybody has wooden floors.
Guest:And I go, what?
Guest:I didn't know where he was going.
Guest:Dirt!
Guest:That's what I'm talking about, dirt!
Guest:And for a floor, you're complaining.
Guest:Dirt.
Guest:Dirt.
Guest:We had a dirt floor.
Guest:And I just thought he was so funny.
Guest:I didn't know he was so funny.
Guest:I thought he was kidding.
Guest:He goes, no, it was dirt, Louie.
Guest:A friend of mine had a sod roof.
Guest:I just laugh at that stuff.
Guest:But he was serious.
Guest:This has been such a good thing for me, this book.
Guest:This book in the baskets.
Guest:Yeah, because I wrote all the stuff.
Guest:I wrote all the stuff.
Guest:Did you get emotional?
Guest:You should hear the audio.
Guest:I cry through the whole thing.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I cry a lot in it.
Guest:Yeah, because I said, what am I going to do, not cry?
Guest:I mean, you can still hear it, but you can understand it, but I...
Guest:I cry more.
Guest:Yeah, I cry more too.
Guest:Yeah, it's good for us.
Guest:You know, if we don't cry, well, I'll eat.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I'll be mean.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's better for me to get that, you know, it's lost that we're dealing with.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, we're really.
Marc:What did we lose?
Marc:What are we grieving?
Marc:The lack of a good childhood?
Guest:Yeah, your mom didn't take care of you, how about that?
Guest:My dad didn't ever, I don't remember him saying, I really love you, Louie, I'm really proud of you.
Guest:You're all right, kid.
Guest:You got a point, Louie, it's too bad it's at the top of your head.
Marc:That's what he used to say.
Marc:My mom actually has gotten, she does it now.
Marc:I'm proud of you.
Marc:I love you.
Guest:Yeah, she should be.
Marc:I did all right.
Guest:Yeah, you did all right.
Guest:I heard you on a Bill Simmons podcast.
Guest:You were just so good, and it was so interesting to hear what you did, how you did it, and what you did.
Guest:I love listening to him.
Guest:I think he's an innovator like you are.
Guest:It was interesting.
Guest:Is he as nice as I think he is?
Guest:He's a very nice guy.
Guest:And he's a little snide, right?
Guest:He's snidey.
Guest:I like his snideness.
Marc:He's a real Boston guy.
Guest:Yeah, he's snide.
Guest:He's got a little snide.
Guest:I like all of that group.
Guest:I like all that group.
Guest:Jimmy and all those guys who you know would shave your head.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:While you're sleeping.
Guest:Sure, yeah.
Guest:If you got drunk, they'd write on your face.
Guest:Yeah, they'd write on your face.
Guest:Which I would never do, but would think it would be funny, but I would feel terrible forever.
Marc:No, you'd be the guy going like, don't do it, don't do it.
Marc:Oh, you're doing it.
Guest:Let me put the exclamation point.
Guest:Yeah, I'm just gonna do a little.
Guest:I put the exclamation point.
Marc:How has it changed, like the show, are you doing dates?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And how's the, has it changed the more people coming out or what?
Marc:You can't tell.
Guest:You know, I can't tell.
Guest:I got my crowd, but then I hear every show, we love you, Christine.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:We love you, Christine.
Guest:From Baskets?
Guest:Yeah, they really love that character.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:They are in love with her.
Guest:You know, they'll come and people will just hug me sometimes in an airport and go, I just love Christine.
Guest:And I go, oh, I'll tell her you said hi.
Guest:But there's a lot of you in that.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But we're both a lot of our parents.
Guest:Sure, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So what book did we have to choose from?
Guest:Right.
Guest:We became them.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:We became them.
Marc:I'm fighting it, though.
Marc:You seem to have, like, allowed it to happen.
Guest:No.
Guest:Yeah, I just, I put the dress on and everything.
Guest:Like, I didn't know this character was gonna turn into my mother, I'll be honest with you.
Guest:That just happened.
Guest:Because I started saying to Jonathan Kreisel, a great director and a great friend, and a great, really knows how to make stuff.
Guest:You know, Portlandia, what a genius idea.
Guest:I'd say to him, hey, do you mind if I try it like my mom?
Guest:And he'd always go, yeah.
Guest:And that was the right thing, because I was just trying to find out who it was.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:and kind of make myself disappear.
Guest:And it was so much fun.
Guest:First of all, I really appreciate what women must go through because, you know, men, we do not, we don't get all that get up and all that stuff.
Guest:You need to smell your clothes to make sure that they're, you'll ask other people, does this look all right?
Guest:I do anyway.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I have pictures from me in the 80s that look like I'm in a clown outfit.
Guest:Because I thought, yeah, that's a pretty color shirt.
Yeah.
Guest:I have pictures of me on TV in a lot of different clown outfits.
Guest:Yeah, it's crazy.
Guest:Why the fuck?
Guest:What was I thinking?
Guest:Can't someone mention anything?
Guest:I had striped bell bottoms on once.
Guest:I looked like a Ferris wheel.
Guest:You know?
Guest:A carousel.
Guest:That's what it looked like.
Guest:A carousel going around.
Guest:Just pictures and pictures.
Guest:You know how lucky are we, though, Mark?
Guest:80s, 90s, 2000s.
Yeah.
Guest:You know, 2010s.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:We're all right.
Guest:That's 40 years, right?
Guest:We're 40 years.
Guest:We must be very close.
Guest:This is my 40th year.
Marc:Of stand-up?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think since the first... I started working in 88, 98, 2008.
Marc:So almost 30 years.
Guest:30 years stand-up.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Unbelievable.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Unbelievable.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Do you remember how hard it was?
Guest:Well, yeah, it was, I mean, you know, I was kind of driven, though, and I, you know, I had a little pocket full of fat jokes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And boy, everybody loves funny or something.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I always got them with that, you know.
Marc:Sure, sure, sure, yeah.
Guest:You know, and then...
Guest:Evolved.
Guest:I always asked to be the MC.
Guest:Because I knew I could use that time to develop myself.
Guest:No one wanted it.
Guest:No one wants to be the MC.
Guest:In Minneapolis?
Guest:In Minneapolis.
Guest:Nobody wants to be the MC.
Guest:I want to because I could try out stupid ideas or they'd come into my head.
Marc:Do you remember Tom Arnold?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I just worked with him a couple weeks ago.
Marc:I did some benefit or something at the store, and he was on before me just bringing his... Yeah, he's so great.
Guest:He's such a study in everything, isn't he?
Marc:I don't know what's going on, but he basically did... He truncated his one-man show that basically ends with, I think, his dad dying of cancer or something.
Marc:So he's doing a 12-minute set, and he's got cancer in it at the end.
Marc:And then I go up next and I'm like, Jesus Christ.
Marc:Did you say something?
Guest:Yeah, of course I did.
Marc:Of course I did.
Marc:I said, I'm going to start with cancer.
Marc:And end with, I'm going to be a baby.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:I'm not Florence Nightingale.
Guest:I don't buy that crap.
Guest:Huh, Mark?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, look, I'm excited for you.
Marc:I'm excited about the book.
Marc:I'm glad you came by.
Marc:You make me laugh.
Marc:And this looks great.
Guest:You know, it's always great to see you.
Guest:And thank you for, I wanted to mention, when I did your podcast last, I had so many comments and people coming up to me about us talking about our dads and our experiences.
Guest:So thank you so much.
Guest:It helps people.
Guest:It helps, and it helps us.
Guest:Yeah, I think so.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I always love it.
Guest:What?
Guest:Can you give me your mom's address and I'll send her the book?
Guest:They sent me five.
Guest:Well, let me sign one for her.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Is that okay?
Marc:Yeah, I'll let you sign this one.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:All right, thanks, Louie.
Guest:All right, thank you, Mark.
Guest:How can you not love Louie Anderson?
Marc:He cracks me up.
Marc:He cracks me.
Marc:When he does his father, it kills me.
Marc:It fucking kills me.
Marc:I'm happy that he came by.
Marc:That was fun.
Marc:The new book, Hey Mom, Stories for My Mother, but you can read them too.
Marc:You can get them now.
Marc:You can see them on baskets.
Marc:If you get an opportunity to see them do stand-up, do that because he's one of the best.
Marc:He's a great act.
Marc:that Louis Anderson, but the way he could just riff as his dad just fucking kills me, fucking kills me.
Marc:So Aisha Tyler,
Marc:I don't think I think this is it is.
Marc:It's the first long form that I've done with her in the garage.
Marc:We did a live one, but that seemed fairly informative, as I recall.
Marc:But it was nice to see her because she seems to be going through a bit of a life change, which is a nice way of saying crisis.
Marc:It's code.
Marc:It's sort of like unprecedented.
Marc:Unprecedented means fucked up.
Marc:change I think a lot of times means crisis but it's still change and you get through the crisis and you're happy it changed you dig right okay so Aisha has just made her directorial debut axis it's a film it's available now on digital download and on-demand provider she's also back on the new season of Archer starting Wednesday April 25th on FXX this is me and Aisha in the garage at the new place
Marc:So where did you come in from?
Marc:Where do you?
Guest:I live in LA, Los Feliz.
Marc:Oh, so not far.
Guest:No, not far at all.
Marc:And why couldn't you come yesterday?
Guest:Because I was at Criminal Minds and they told me my call was going to be at 2.30 in the afternoon.
Guest:It's the worst, right?
Guest:But then it was at 10 o'clock in the morning.
Marc:And then you went there and you what, sat around for three hours?
Guest:you know the one thing i will say about that show is it's a rapid show so like i they just misestimated how quickly they were going to finish earlier in the week and they just rolled back the call time much much earlier than i know what that feels like yeah that show they've got it so down they have it down oh yeah we don't wait we don't we don't wait at all they're actually very effective they just they thought they'd be behind and they were ahead
Marc:What's the angle on that one?
Marc:That's one of the DNA ones?
Guest:No, that is a profiling one.
Guest:That is, oh, we're looking for a physically fit adult male.
Guest:Oh, right.
Guest:You know, his mother abused him when he was a child.
Marc:And then you cut to talking to people that might know him.
Marc:Sorry.
Guest:No, more evidence-based.
Guest:We don't do a lot of – it's interesting –
Guest:We rarely interview friends and family of the unsub because we don't know who the unsub is.
Guest:This is a guy we don't know.
Guest:So we're just trying to draw a sketch of this guy, like a psychological sketch of this guy.
Guest:So we talk to the victims and we look at the evidence and the evidence tells us who the guy is.
Marc:And then you look at each other going, uh-huh.
Guest:And then we do a lot of knowing looks right before we cut to commercial.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:And we get a composite sketch.
Marc:But you've been doing that show forever, right?
Guest:Just three.
Guest:The show's been on for 13 years, but I've been there for three.
Marc:three's a long time does it have any like does does doing that kind of show have any impact on the way you think in real life or do anything or that's a really interesting question i mean like i just would wonder because some people find those kind of shows so fascinating and they're very popular all those uh criminal mind or criminal shows yeah because there's some sort of you're solving something yes but like when you do a show it's just bits and pieces and you show up for your scene yeah exactly but i'm not getting like a global take on how to profile you don't know how to do it like if you
Marc:You couldn't get a job in the real justice department?
Guest:No, maybe not.
Guest:I could probably stand around outside welcoming people like they have the equivalent of a Walmart greeter.
Marc:That's what you should do.
Marc:You should do a movie where you're actually the real Aisha Tyler is stuck in a situation where you're like, wait, I'm on a show where we do this.
Guest:Why am I doing this now?
Guest:I can solve this.
Guest:This is ridiculous.
Marc:I can solve this.
Guest:I do think this.
Guest:I do think that doing this show, like I play a psychologist on the show, and I am curious about psychiatry and psychology.
Marc:Are you?
Guest:Yeah, like really curious about it.
Guest:Have you ever gone to one?
Guest:Yes, I do go to therapy now.
Guest:You do?
Guest:Which is not a big black thing, by the way.
Guest:Not a big thing with my people, but I love it.
Marc:Why is that, do you think?
Guest:Um, I just think like for a long time, it felt like a luxury of the wealthy.
Guest:Like if you had the, if you had the luxury of sitting around, like gazing at your navel and contemplating, you know, your inner makeup, that was something that you did because you had, you know, time and money.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And black people just trying to like get, you know, like feed their families.
Marc:You don't think it's sort of like keep it in the family while you're telling a stranger?
Guest:There might be some of that, but I think it's all bound up in the luxury of class.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:You're in a class where you have the time.
Guest:Black people have problems, sure, but you have real present threats outside.
Guest:Someone's trying to kill you.
Guest:So you don't want to think about your more subtle psychological threats.
Guest:Luxury problem.
Marc:So when did you start going?
Guest:Black people could use therapy.
Guest:We could all use, we're all suffering from PTSD.
Guest:We could use a lot of therapy.
Marc:I think that's like, I think a lot of people can use therapy, but I think that not, you know, the industry of therapy doesn't always do itself.
Marc:Like there's no, you really got to find somebody who's going to fit whatever that, and you've got to want to.
Guest:unfuck yourself right so and and i want you to continue that exact thing but i just thought of something else which is that there is historically although you know i'm i'm i'm i grew up poor but with a bourgeois attitude because my parents were both artists so we don't have any money you know but my parents you know were more thoughtful kind of book driven people work at working class family but you know with like analysis wasn't a strange
Guest:No, although I don't think they ever went to therapy.
Marc:Intellectually, you knew who Freud was and all that stuff.
Guest:Yeah, and I studied all the psychological schools when I was in high school.
Guest:I was a really bookish kid.
Guest:But I also think that historically, black people are very suspicious of the medical profession generally.
Guest:So when you were saying you've got to find the right therapist, the idea that you shop doctors until you find someone who you jibe with, again, that's just like a foreign...
Marc:construct and also like I think a lot of times people who are in in uh have that class compromise whether they're black or white or whatever most of the time the time the only time they encounter therapists might be social workers well you're you're crazy yeah you know I mean and that's probably working class people generally as well I mean like the old thing on the Sopranos was like he's going to a psychologist is he crazy yeah yeah what are you telling him yeah yeah well don't tell your secrets yeah yeah right yeah you're crazy and you're and you're obviously you're crazy yeah
Guest:Yeah, are you gay?
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:What grand problem are you trying to solve here?
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Yeah, it makes you suspect.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Marc:Yeah, are you mentally ill?
Guest:Yeah, are you sick?
Marc:Right.
Guest:Whereas therapy- Can I trust you?
Guest:Yeah, I can't trust you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Clearly even hiding the fact that you're- That you're mentally ill.
Marc:And when it comes right down to it, all we're really talking about is like, I don't know why I'm uncomfortable in my body.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Or, you know, I keep feeling like I set these goals for myself and then I don't do anything to move towards them.
Marc:Why do they all leave me?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Or my big one was, without getting too deep into the weeds, was I don't recognize my behavior anymore.
Guest:Like, I think I knew myself, and now I'm doing stuff that doesn't feel familiar to me.
Guest:And I don't mean I'm choosing to jump out of a plane.
Guest:I mean, like, I'm reacting in a way that feels self-injurious, which is not my nature.
Guest:Why am I doing this?
Marc:It's finally happening.
Guest:Yeah, it's finally.
Guest:It was going to happen eventually.
Guest:It took me a while to get there, but I just started breaking shit.
Guest:I wanted to know why I was breaking shit.
Guest:Oh, see that?
Guest:Yeah, it's interesting, though.
Guest:Losing control, finally.
Guest:Oh, finally.
Guest:It took me 40-something years to finally unravel.
Guest:You run a touchdown.
Guest:I did.
Guest:I was straight and narrow.
Guest:I was all right angles my whole life.
Guest:And all of a sudden, stuff started leaking out the corners.
Guest:So what are you going to do about it?
Guest:But it was interesting.
Guest:I mean, once I stopped freaking out.
Guest:About it?
Guest:About it.
Guest:Freaking out and freaking out about it.
Marc:And self what?
Guest:Like self-injuring and self-medicating and all the stuff that people do.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, not on any extreme level.
Guest:But I just think, you know, look...
Guest:People use alcohol because it's very effective.
Guest:It works.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:For centuries.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Very efficient.
Marc:Delivers.
Guest:It delivers.
Guest:People say alcohol doesn't work.
Guest:Just didn't do it properly.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Just didn't try hard enough.
Guest:Or they did it way too properly.
Guest:Way too properly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's a middle ground there where booze works really well.
Guest:Functioning alcoholism.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:And then I just felt like this isn't really me and I need to figure out what's going on under here.
Guest:And therapy is amazing.
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I love it.
Guest:I mean, I love it.
Guest:I, I, I, but I, you know, if you're willing, you know, like if you're comfortable, sure.
Marc:But you got to be like willing to show up for it and do the work.
Marc:If you're just using it to rationalize.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Or get, or get some kind of weird like support or, or yeah, yeah, exactly.
Guest:From your therapist.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm fucked up.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Okay, great.
Guest:I'm just going to keep doing the bullshit I was doing before.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:So you, so you've had some success with it.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I, I, I love it.
Marc:Is this what attracted you to the story of this movie?
Guest:Maybe.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Access?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Because I do think that I... I mean, it's your first director.
Guest:It's my first feature.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And it's about a guy that hits the wall with all this shit, right?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Who's an addict and... And an actor.
Guest:And an actor.
Guest:And you know what?
Guest:You know the theme that I liked the most about this movie?
Guest:The two themes.
Guest:The one was loneliness.
Guest:I mean, this is a guy who's profoundly lonely in a life, in a town that looks to be...
Guest:exciting and engaging and everybody's got a million friends and they're always at parties.
Guest:And I find that this place can be like wildly isolating.
Guest:You can feel totally- We're talking real life now?
Guest:Real life, yeah.
Guest:LA?
Guest:LA.
Guest:That's terrible.
Guest:Yeah, it's a really isolating place, but it looks- You better like your house.
Guest:You better like your fucking house.
Guest:Or you better love a happy hour.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and I just, I liked that this was a guy who looks like he's got like a great career and he's got money and he's got a relationship and, but he can't.
Marc:That doesn't sound familiar at all.
Guest:No, no.
Marc:It doesn't sound like you at all.
Guest:We're not shrinking me here.
Guest:And he just feels like just really profoundly alone, you know, and and I, you know, without giving it away.
Guest:I mean, this is a guy who, you know, he was young.
Guest:He came to Hollywood, had a lot of success.
Guest:He made a lot of money and he just used all of that success to just destroy himself and his relationships.
Guest:And he's really trying very hard now to be a better version of himself, which I think is the other thing I related to.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Try like you're not a bad person, but you've done some bad shit and you're trying to.
Guest:Just be better.
Guest:Just try to be, not be perfect.
Guest:Not even be good, just be better.
Marc:But the bad shit is not so, it's not unforgivable.
Guest:And it's not unforgivable.
Guest:No, he hasn't murdered anybody.
Guest:But he hasn't cared for other people and he hasn't cared for himself.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And I think we can feel like the things that we've done are unforgivable.
Marc:And how did you find this script?
Marc:What was the process of you making your first movie here?
Guest:Oh, God.
Marc:Because when I talk to people about making films or about championing films or sort of ushering them through the process, it could take years.
Marc:And I'm like, it's not going to happen for me.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:That's not a quick enough delivery.
Guest:I need answers.
Marc:But also like sort of like maybe it'll get into festivals.
Marc:Right, maybe it won't.
Marc:You just like the whole life of it at every turn.
Guest:No, it's completely unknown.
Marc:You could just end up with this thing that you have in your house.
Marc:Yes, an albatross.
Marc:You spent a decade working on it.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Like an unfinished painting that no one will ever see.
Guest:Or even if it's finished.
Guest:Yeah, still no one's going to see it.
Guest:No one's ever going to see it.
Guest:So like reverse engineering that question.
Guest:The thing I will say is you just have to...
Guest:You have to just kind of, like, I didn't think anybody was gonna see this movie.
Guest:Like, I think I went in thinking that.
Marc:Was it just looking at it as practice or something?
Guest:Yeah, not even like in a pie in the sky way.
Guest:I just was like, I'm gonna make a movie to show people that I can make a movie.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So that I can use it.
Guest:It's a resume piece.
Guest:Yeah, it's a resume piece.
Guest:So that I can use it to set up the next movie.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And also as an exercise for me creatively.
Guest:And because of that, it's a very strange kind of surrealist experimental film.
Guest:I didn't make a commercial movie.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I didn't have to make a commercial movie because I don't want to prove that you can do that.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:And I don't care.
Guest:But, you know, I'm sure people are going to be like, oh, this is kind of weird.
Guest:But I also think baby directors really want to show everybody that they can make the next like Fast and Furious, you know, the more furious or in the fast.
Marc:We wanted to have some pacing.
Guest:Yeah, I just wanted to make a piece of art.
Guest:And because I could, because it was a tiny little movie, that's what I did.
Marc:How'd you meet the screen or how'd you get the script?
Guest:So I... It's talking about that murky period, that murky therapeutic period that I was going through.
Marc:So wait, now what are you, sober?
Marc:Is that what you're saying?
Guest:I'm not sober.
Guest:No, I love booze.
Guest:I still love booze.
Guest:No, it's just that I...
Guest:I went through a period where like my life felt like a burden to me.
Guest:Like things that I had that I'd always wanted started to feel like a burden.
Guest:Like my house felt like a burden.
Guest:I sold it.
Guest:I don't own a home anymore.
Guest:You married?
Guest:I'm not married anymore.
Marc:Is this all around the same time?
Guest:It all kind of happened around the same time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I got rid of about like 70% of my belongings.
Guest:I just wanted, I didn't want any stuff.
Guest:you know what did this all happen like like it was over time it was over oh you know it wasn't it was over a period of time you got rid of the house i went at house husband's gone uh i i got a divorce i and then i moved into it like a place that was like maybe you know a quarter the size of my house and i got rid of all my so like a cat you're just like in a smaller place it feels comfortable you see yeah i can see all my it's around me i can see it all and i don't feel like i need to work to support my lifestyle
Guest:Oh, that's good.
Marc:Like, oh yeah, so you can stop chasing your ass just to get your nut.
Guest:Yeah, and I can just make interesting stuff.
Guest:I quit one of my jobs.
Guest:I was on a very successful daytime talk show for six years.
Guest:I left that.
Guest:Yeah, I left the talk at the end of my contract.
Marc:You did that on your choice.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Those are big things.
Guest:Big things.
Guest:Big changes.
Guest:I like change.
Guest:I like dynamism.
Marc:But it sounds like it wasn't just about you.
Marc:You felt like it was expanding too much.
Marc:Like your life got too big in a way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my energy was going into things that I was putting my energy into things I didn't want to put my energy into.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that's not a statement about my marriage, but the other thing, I wanted to make art, but I couldn't because my energy was going out to pay bills and keep a big house.
Marc:And also doing a lot of mainstream stuff.
Guest:That didn't feel radical to me.
Marc:But you were making good living.
Guest:Making money, and money is nice, but it's not the most interesting thing to me.
Guest:It's a big change.
Guest:Yeah, it was big.
Guest:I'm a different person now.
Marc:That's crazy.
Guest:Which is really interesting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I guess also... Are you freaking out?
Guest:Yeah, I freak out sometimes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But the freaking out is interesting too.
Marc:Well, good.
Marc:No, I'm happy for you.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:You finally let go.
Guest:I just remember one thing.
Guest:Something.
Guest:I mean, I just... Yeah, I was gripping shit pretty tightly.
Guest:God, Mark, you've known me a long time.
Guest:Go fuck yourself.
Guest:Like, you know, like a part of it is like, you know, you just start to think like, is the rest of my life just going to be driving in a nice car to a nice job where someone makes me eggs and then I go out and I do this nice job.
Guest:Oh, that sounds terrible.
Guest:There's a lot of people right now that are really, really feeling bad for you.
Guest:Yes, I'm a dick.
Guest:I agree with you.
Guest:Poor girl.
Guest:I agree.
Guest:But like, how can you do anything?
Guest:Look, how can you do anything interesting if you're not having interesting experiences?
Marc:Look, I agree with you.
Marc:And, you know, no matter how big your life gets, it is small.
Marc:Like whatever people think it is, you're still just managing that life.
Marc:You're going to the same two places.
Marc:Like there's no time.
Marc:You know, I don't even know now.
Marc:Like I don't, like my life, I never really was the nice car people making eggs for me guy.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:But I do realize that no matter where you live, your life gets small unless you make choices to go engage in stuff.
Marc:right right and that's our nature i think to make things small and comfortable yeah controlled yeah i think some people familiar right familiarity and pattern is sure well some people are adventurous but you know those of us who grew up in chaos or emotional uh instability it's nice to like you know i got a place i go to my place and then i go to my other place those are my places i know those i understand those places right right
Guest:And I feel like it was this period of turmoil that was very like, you know, there was a lot of fear in there.
Guest:But even the fear was interesting to me as well because I just felt like, like, do I get to move through my whole life?
Guest:Like not being afraid and not like, you know, I'm like, I feel like pretending like you're pretending like I'm like, yeah, like avoiding fear.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then by avoiding fear and avoiding discomfort, I'm not growing at all.
Guest:I'm not growing in any way.
Marc:So yeah, so like you really needed guidance through this.
Guest:And the therapy, the therapy was there to help me figure out like the feelings that were kind of a big miasma of confusion.
Guest:Sure, so you didn't completely lose it.
Guest:Yeah, and then she was like, okay, so you're afraid.
Guest:It's like, what are you afraid of?
Guest:I was like, well, these things.
Guest:I was like, but that's not necessarily a reason not to do A or B. Right.
Guest:As long as I know that I'm going into it and the fear is just a natural aspect of being human because I mean, we're terrified all the time.
Marc:Yeah, even more now.
Guest:Yeah, more as you get older.
Guest:I'm running out of time.
Marc:More in this political climate.
Guest:More in this political climate, more in this world.
Guest:Although I keep reminding myself that people have survived through much more dangerous and frightening times than this one.
Guest:It's not that this couldn't get more frightening.
Guest:Give them time, yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I can drive my nice car around LA and I'm not afraid someone's going to turn a fire hose on me.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And I can speak out online and I don't think anyone's going to come take my shit.
Guest:So, you know, then it's a responsibility to do those things, to speak out and to observe and to point out that this is an irrational time and we should be careful.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And be, you know, a little get each other's backs.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Support each other and not let anybody get away with anything because people are trying to run a fucking shell game right now.
Guest:And they are.
Guest:I mean, they are.
Guest:I mean, we're freaking out.
Guest:We're freaking out and we should freak out.
Guest:And we're freaking about about stuff that is.
Guest:dangerous and scary but at the same time they are just slowly pulling the rug out from under us as we're freaking out about this scandal and this thing and the fact that we have a mentoring candidate in office he's still doing what he was put there to do which is to dismantle all of these you know well to get rid of the government get rid of the government dismantle the government the republicans have been wanting to do that for decades yeah yeah and they're doing it
Marc:but all right but back to you because i don't think we're going to solve the that problem we can't no no no so you when you took on this project the movie you you like what did the screen did you know the guy who wrote it so it's so i what happened was um talking about like risks and everything like that um i was uh this is this is so inside baseball sorry human beings no people are used to it here okay good
Guest:So I was at Comic-Con.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I got asked.
Guest:People know about Comic-Con, by the way.
Guest:People know about Comic-Con.
Guest:Great.
Guest:Okay, good.
Guest:People know about it.
Guest:People heard about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was at this thing.
Guest:I don't know if you guys heard about it.
Guest:And I was asked to moderate a panel for the show Penny Dreadful, which I was a huge fan of.
Guest:I've been tweeting about it.
Guest:So they knew I was a fan.
Guest:They said, you want to come moderate this?
Guest:I did.
Guest:I love that show.
Guest:I still love that show.
Guest:It's an incredibly elegant meditation on kind of the nature of the human soul.
Guest:It's really about our cruelty and our self-hate.
Guest:It's beautiful.
Guest:It's a brilliant show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I went and I moderated it, and John Logan, who created his incredible screenwriter and playwright, wrote Skyfall and a bunch of other amazing things, was like, hey, why don't you come visit the show?
Guest:You love the show, why don't you come hang out and visit the set?
Guest:And they shot in Ireland.
Marc:And I was like- Have you ever been there before?
Guest:I had never been there before, and now I have many, many times, but I hadn't at the time.
Guest:And I was like, man, I need to be doing more radical shit with my life, man.
Guest:I'm not gonna be an interesting artist if I don't do radical shit.
Guest:Yeah, so I was like, I'm gonna go to Ireland by myself,
Guest:I had never done that before.
Guest:And I went and I visited him and I ended up asking to visit another show because I wanted to direct.
Guest:So I shadowed on a show called Vikings.
Guest:Another show that I really loved.
Guest:And I just hung out in Dublin and at these two studios watching people make TV and asking questions and learning about directing.
Marc:It's nice that you went to, like, Ireland's a very comfortable place.
Marc:It's a beautiful place.
Marc:The people are pretty genuine.
Guest:They're very friendly.
Marc:Yeah, and I love it.
Marc:And I haven't spent enough time there, but it's like you were able to just go, you know, get schooled without being out in the open here.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Exposed here.
Marc:Or be hanging around a friend's set.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Everyone's like, shoot.
Guest:Like, down in Culver City or something.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And they...
Guest:And it is, it's like a different kind of television culture there.
Guest:They were very welcoming.
Guest:So I just, I mean, I had the best time.
Guest:I just like, you know, read every day and drank a couple pints of Guinness and had a shot of Tullamore Dew and walked around set.
Guest:I helped hand out sandwiches and I got to not be the actor.
Guest:I just got to be like a visitor.
Guest:And in Ireland, they don't really care about famous people.
Guest:So, you know, like no one bothers you.
Guest:No one cares.
Guest:No one cares what you do for a living.
Guest:Your job is just as interesting as yours.
Marc:They're excited to see if they recognize you.
Guest:Yeah, but they don't do the thing.
Guest:And I met a friend of mine who's an actor.
Guest:He's Irish.
Guest:He's like, my brother is in Ireland.
Guest:He'll take you around.
Guest:And I met all these other actors.
Guest:And I met the guy who wrote this movie.
Guest:He and I ended up doing a short film together with a third actor who's also a composer called Erskala Kayla.
Guest:That was the Gaelic name that I shot in Galway, Ireland at the end of 2014.
Marc:Oh, is that beautiful?
Marc:I want to go up there to Galway.
Marc:I'm going to be performing in Dublin next month and we're going to spend a few days
Guest:it's just a couple hours of train ride i always think it's from dublin yeah it's only a train ride the whole you know across the whole country driving in three hours and then you can just take the train just take the train oh it's beautiful all right good you should do it island is an easy fun place to travel around in uh and i did we did the short film together it was just a great experience and then he was like i've got this feature script and i remember thinking like oh i'm gonna hate this script and then like this is gonna be what is this getting out here yeah right right now he's gonna have not to read
Marc:Is that the worst thing about this business is like friendships can end just when you get a text.
Marc:Can you read something?
Guest:I'm sorry.
Guest:New phone.
Guest:Who dis?
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And I had my own ideas about the movie that I wanted to make first.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I had things in my head.
Marc:Before meeting him.
Guest:Before meeting him.
Guest:The type of movie.
Guest:Yeah, the type of movie I wanted to make.
Guest:And then it just was like a perfect first feature because it was contained by
Guest:They always tell you make your first film, don't be too ambitious.
Guest:That's why a lot of first films are like a family comedy in a house or whatever.
Guest:But it was contained and it was streamlined, but it also was really strange.
Guest:And I thought, great, this will be a first film that I know I can make.
Guest:But that is is unusual enough to make a little noise.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:A black woman directing a movie about an expatriate Irish drug addict living in Los Angeles told in real time in a car driving through L.A.
Guest:at rush hour just felt like different.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like a different choice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I and I also thought this is gonna be hard because like, how am I going to make this movie interesting?
Guest:How do I make a movie about a guy in a car on the phone?
Marc:And where are you going to shoot?
Marc:Which street are you going to block?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:How are we going to get permits for this shit?
Guest:And how's it going to work?
Marc:When I watched, did you watch All Outland?
Marc:I did.
Marc:I did.
Marc:That scene on the highway where you know that part of the highway.
Marc:Yeah, you're like, what the fuck?
Marc:Yeah, I got pissed about not, like, the idea of being in the traffic.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:The hubris of it.
Guest:Like, how do you even think that you can do this?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:i felt like watching it i felt like i was in a car stuck wondering what was going on what's going on up there like just who are you going to murder first and every time i go over that overpass i feel that same rage even now even now just that's what we got from the musical yeah exactly i didn't take away anything else than the guys that made this movie are jackass yeah yeah totally well where'd you shoot it
Guest:So we shot it.
Guest:It's interesting when you do this, when you start to figure out, when you start to unpack these problems.
Marc:Well, that's the job of the director.
Guest:It was a blast.
Guest:It was a fun math problem.
Marc:And the AD.
Guest:And the AD and my producers.
Guest:Right.
Guest:First of all, the movie was written at night and he was originally driving from like Mulholland to the beach.
Guest:And I immediately changed it today because I thought, look, you've got this one small set that's a guy in a car.
Guest:But if I make it during the day, then I'll have a secondary, larger, beautiful, changing dynamic set, which is L.A.
Guest:And L.A.
Guest:can really be a character in the movie.
Sure.
Guest:So then I wanted to get as much L.A.
Guest:in the movies I could.
Guest:And I wanted to show parts of L.A.
Guest:we don't typically see in movies.
Guest:So it starts in it starts downtown in Elysian Park.
Guest:People know that as the area above Dodger Stadium.
Guest:And then he drives to essentially kind of like the beginning of Malibu.
Guest:So we couldn't drive through Beverly Hills.
Guest:We couldn't afford a Beverly Hills permit.
Guest:You have to get a permit from every kind of town inside LA.
Guest:So we end up going along Wilshire.
Guest:And then right when we get to the edge of Beverly Hills, we have to cut south.
Guest:So we go down to Pico and we take Pico.
Guest:And then after we pass Beverly Hills, we cut back up into LA.
Guest:And then we took LA along Sunset.
Marc:Well, you just had escorts so you didn't have to block the whole streets.
Guest:So we had a process trailer.
Guest:The car's on a process trailer.
Guest:So the actor didn't have to concentrate on driving.
Guest:He would clearly have killed himself if he had to do both.
Marc:Yeah, the tricky thing about the process trailer is to make sure you look like you're driving.
Guest:That you're driving.
Guest:So we got this ultra low process trailer that was so low to the ground that at one point we pulled out for lunch and it took us like 45 minutes to get back out of the parking lot.
Guest:I was like... Oh, yeah.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All the magic of movie making, you guys.
Guest:But we had a police escort every day.
Guest:And to accomplish all of these things... Yeah, cameras mounted on the car...
Guest:Cameras mounted on the trailer because the trailer itself was, you know, a big truck.
Guest:And then it's got like kind of a little flatbed that the car drives onto.
Guest:So we had and we shot the movie in seven days.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:So the actor had to do 65 pages of material a day.
Guest:Then we would change the camera positions.
Guest:The next day he would do the same 65 pages.
Guest:And we moved all the way around him by the end of the movie.
Guest:He was he'd done the whole.
Marc:So that was coverage.
Marc:You'd shoot the whole movie every day?
Guest:Every day.
Guest:The whole movie every day.
Guest:And then, yeah.
Guest:And then we would change angles.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:So it was a lot of work for him and a lot of work for us.
Guest:But it was really exhilarating because by like day three, we had the whole movie in the can.
Marc:And you knew it.
Marc:And then, yeah.
Guest:And so then we could play.
Guest:Then we could be like, okay, let's make more radical choices.
Guest:And we were also those pricks who caused a lot of traffic.
Guest:At one point, we had to pull over because we had caused like about a mile of traffic behind us.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, I was making fucking art, man.
Guest:So live through it.
Guest:Sure, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You got to pay the price.
Guest:Also, we're on Surface Street.
Guest:So they could go around us if they wanted to.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:And this thing's going to be available now to watch?
Guest:April 10th on everything.
Marc:That's good.
Guest:So just you said something about people not making it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not making.
Guest:I made this movie.
Guest:I thought it would be on my Vimeo page.
Guest:I mean, I wanted it to come out, but I didn't.
Guest:There's a lot of movies out there.
Guest:And it's the lead's not a name.
Guest:And he's the only guy on camera.
Guest:I submitted it to some festivals.
Guest:I didn't get into the big ones.
Guest:My feelings were hurt.
Guest:I didn't get into Sundance and Tribeca.
Guest:But I ended up, I remember I didn't get into Sundance and I was like, oh.
Guest:And then three days later, I got a call from four festivals in a row that my movie had gotten into.
Guest:And it ended up going to eight festivals, winning two awards.
Guest:Oh, great.
Guest:And then this is for people who care about filmmaking.
Guest:I had this tiny movie and I had a distributor who was going to try to sell it.
Guest:And I and they were like, look, we're not having a lot of luck selling it overseas because it hasn't had a theater run.
Guest:And I was like, right, well, let's get a theater run.
Guest:They're like, your movie's never going to get a theater run.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Too small.
Guest:Nobody knows who that guy is.
Guest:It's hard to get a theater run.
Guest:Yeah, it is.
Guest:And I was like, okay.
Guest:And then I was like, I wanted to submit it to some award shows.
Guest:And you can't do that without a theater run.
Guest:So I just called... Like you just got to get a weekend at a theater.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:So I just called some theaters and I said, hey...
Guest:If you run my movie, I'll, like, promote it and I'll come down and do some Q&As.
Guest:And I got a theater on my fucking self.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it ran for a week at the Arclight here.
Guest:It ran for a week at the Landmark in New York, which are two, like, very nice, fancy theaters.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it just showed you, like, you can... If you make an interesting film, you can do a lot more than you think you can do with this movie if you just kind of, like, put energy behind it.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And then...
Guest:And then it got that theater run.
Guest:I parted ways with that distributor because I didn't feel like they believed in the film.
Guest:I got another distributor who really did believe in the film.
Guest:And now it's not just going to be on iTunes.
Guest:It's going to be on like Amazon Voodoo, Fandango, On Demand on your TV.
Guest:Just dial it in on your cable service provider.
Marc:And that came through this distributor.
Guest:to another distributor who just got Netflix just got the movie no not not Netflix because you know Netflix just pays you once yeah and then you can't but but this way I mean this is I know I know yeah you know the residual there's no you don't there's no upside for your movie uh on Netflix yeah I mean unless they get behind it unless they make it yeah but if they buy it and it's a great platform and I love Netflix sure but buy my next movie make my next movie please have you asked um uh no I haven't I haven't met with them yet but um and I I love Netflix but yeah
Guest:If you've made a movie, they buy it for a flat fee.
Guest:And then if it's a success, you don't see any more of, you know, you don't see that success.
Guest:You don't get to participate in that success.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I get you.
Guest:But it's, I mean, you know, like my mom's going to get to watch it on her television.
Guest:You know, I mean, I don't know.
Guest:Like money's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I care more about like...
Marc:in a vigorous creative life no i mean no i get you i you know i i definitely understand because maybe i can say that because i had a couple tv shows and i'm not poor anymore but but i don't think i didn't care about it but i think it's interesting that you know this is the this is the direction you know you go in you know what i mean like you know because you're still acting and stuff but you've done you know hosting's a weird thing because it's a it's it can be a very robotic positioning
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It can feel very repetitious.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's a job that, you know, somebody with your training and stand up and, you know, showing.
Marc:But like hosting in and of itself, if you're not careful, you know, is a prison.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I mean, look, it's also it's it's interesting.
Guest:You get to meet fun people, but.
Guest:And I was lucky.
Guest:I was on a show where my opinion did count.
Guest:I mean, we spent a big part of the show talking about opinions.
Guest:Yeah, right, right.
Guest:But a lot of times, if you're being a host, it's really just about making sure that the person sitting across from you wins.
Marc:Sure, and also, but even like the soup and other stuff where you're just kind of there on the set.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:You know, kind of just teeing stuff up and then knocking it down.
Marc:And the other thing, because you're a comic as well, and obviously, I've always known that you work hard and you're compulsive and you're doing a million things, but a lot of that serves...
Marc:that in hosting too is like, you can just show up and riff.
Guest:Like on the talk.
Marc:Like it's like, what's the job really?
Marc:Like I'm quick on my feet.
Marc:I just gotta, and then you're in it.
Guest:I mean, not that they don't work hard over there, but yeah, it wasn't like I stayed up all night, like doing my homework.
Guest:You just come in and you fuck around and then you go.
Marc:And that's different than acting.
Marc:But I don't know if you're like, I don't know your process as an actor.
Marc:I mean, do you do the memorization on set?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, it's interesting.
Guest:Like I'm on a show with eight lead actors.
Guest:You get the hang of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, some if you have an episode that's about you, then you really dig in.
Guest:But if you have an episode where you have to come in and say two lines about like, you know, what was what was the cause of death?
Guest:And let's go bust the guy.
Guest:You know, you don't have to spend all weekend like figuring out your motivation for that, you know.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, I think I think what's interesting, though, is because it's at this point in your life, you know, with all the shit that's going on that you just hinted at that I'm going to poke at you more for that.
Marc:Well, it's just that, you know, you're not in the position where you're going to go hash that shit out on a comedy stage.
Guest:No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not, no.
Marc:Which I think would be great.
Guest:I'm handicapped right now as a comic.
Guest:I'm really hamstrung because a lot of... It's been a long time.
Guest:Well, I took about... I only intended to take a year off, and it's been about five, which just came from having to get up at five in the morning and then not wanting to be on stage at midnight.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I just couldn't do both things.
Guest:Not because I didn't love it, and I do miss it, but I...
Guest:You know, look, the thing that's great about comedy and the thing that transforms all of us as comedians is when you have real shit to work out on stage and like real shit happens up there.
Marc:Sounds like you got some real shit.
Guest:And I got some real shit to work out.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:But you chose a therapist.
Guest:I am doing it in therapy because... You want to hide it from the public.
Guest:I want to keep... Hide my wounds, my festering wounds from the general public.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, it...
Guest:I will say this.
Guest:I loved being married.
Guest:I was married for 25 years to an extraordinary person who remains an extraordinary person.
Guest:And the marriage didn't end because anybody was bad.
Guest:And because of that, I really feel very protective of that.
Guest:A lot of times what people do when a relationship ends is they dissect the relationship and they parse it out and they get down to the cells and they rip it apart and the cells apart and the other person apart.
Guest:But I don't feel the need to do that because that's not how the relationship ended.
Guest:And in some ways, I feel very protective of the relationship and of him.
Guest:And so I...
Guest:It ended OK.
Guest:It ended.
Guest:I mean, it ended.
Guest:I love that guy.
Guest:I'm always going to love him.
Guest:And I and I wasn't like a scorched earth thing.
Guest:I was with him since I was a teenager.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:It was more than 19.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so, you know, like he was my best friend for more than half of my life.
Marc:Would you meet that guy?
Guest:In college.
Guest:In college.
Guest:It was my sophomore year of college.
Marc:Really?
Marc:It's been that long?
Guest:I've been together since my sophomore year.
Guest:Since I was a teenager.
Guest:In my teens.
Guest:19.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:So much of who I am as a person came out of growing up with that person in my life.
Guest:And I don't want...
Guest:to do the thing where I get on stage and, and turn it into, you know, right.
Marc:Well, that's, that's tricky or turn it or turn it into like a, like, you know, you have to have a point of view on it and being diplomatic is not that funny.
Guest:No, no, it's not funny.
Guest:He's a great guy and great guy.
Guest:Thanks guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No one wants to hear that shit either.
Marc:You know, they want to, and I do think that there's something, but the other part of it is like, you know, and then I realized like, what's wrong with me?
Yeah.
Marc:That there's the funny.
Guest:Oh, yeah, there is the funny.
Guest:What is wrong with me?
Guest:So many things.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:But what about what about the premise?
Guest:And Mark, you talk a lot about relationships.
Guest:You've had some relationships.
Marc:But I've slowed down on that.
Marc:Good.
Marc:Because that like you said, there are other people involved.
Marc:And when you're talking about them, either on these mics or on a stand up stage, they don't have they don't have the rebuttal.
Guest:Yeah, they don't have the opportunity to kind of defend themselves.
Guest:And also, you're making everything elastic, because at the end, you're trying to get a punchline out of it.
Guest:Not in a crass way.
Guest:And also, it's your side.
Guest:It's your side.
Marc:You're right.
Marc:Unless you really get fucked.
Guest:Yeah, unless you got boned, yeah.
Guest:Which I did.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:But there is another side to that.
Marc:Right, right.
Guest:And we all feel boned at the end of a relationship.
Guest:I know.
Marc:And then after about a year or 10, you're like, that's kind of an asshole.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think I might have... Why is this on fire?
Guest:Oh, I have a match on my hand.
Guest:I didn't remember that part.
Guest:But, you know, I do think there's something really interesting and meaningful about talking about a relationship on stage.
Guest:It's why people connect with that kind of stuff.
Guest:I mean, like what Chris Rock is doing, talking about his marriage.
Guest:It's interesting to us.
Guest:It's interesting to him.
Guest:I mean, you know, it's like... To me, I think comedy is more about telling the truth than it is about being funny.
Guest:It always has been for me.
Guest:It's like people don't...
Guest:People don't remember the guy who was funny.
Guest:They remember the guy that said something real.
Guest:And until I can get up there and say something real, I'm not going to do it.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And I think, well, I think also that, you know, whatever, you know, Chris is working through and, you know, copying to one's own flaws, character defects, and, you know, emotional misdemeanors, betrayals, being fucking, yeah.
Guest:Fucking telling the truth.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, that's important for people to hear.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because then they're sort of like, all right.
Marc:If he can do what I can do.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Or you're not alone.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Not everybody can cop to this shit.
Guest:Not everybody can.
Guest:But, you know, maybe just see that you might have been a prick.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then also, like, I think admitting that you were a prick is the start.
Guest:And then the next step is like, how do I not continue being a prick?
Right.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:And also like you and I, you know, I'm a little older than you, but, you know, we don't have kids.
Marc:No, it doesn't look like it's going to happen.
Marc:Nope.
Guest:No, I know.
Guest:I'm not.
Guest:That's that's not it's not like I'm like, oh, it's not going to happen.
Guest:I'm like, woo.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You got out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I definitely dodged my fertile years.
Marc:I dodged a bullet.
Marc:But for me, when I talk about it, I don't have any real shame in it.
Marc:But I do wonder if there is some final phase of maturing that happens when you have child and you have to be selfless that I'm probably going to miss out on.
Marc:But no, wait.
Guest:That was thinking.
Guest:I'm ruminating while you speak.
Marc:But my thing was, I never thought about it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like it was never like sort of like, you know, like I got to have a kid.
Marc:Like it was never, I never thought about it.
Marc:Maybe I'm selfish.
Marc:Maybe, you know, but.
Guest:No, no, no, no, no, no.
Guest:I fuck everyone who says that you're selfish because you didn't have kids.
Marc:No one tells me that.
Marc:Some, most people are like, it's probably better.
Guest:Why are you making a human, making a human being?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Wanting to make a human being that is in your own image, your own genetic material is in and of itself a selfish act.
Guest:But it's also like selflessness is going and finding a baby that's already here and raising that baby.
Guest:That's being that's being selfless.
Guest:Making a person is completely selfish.
Marc:But it's also just a biological imperative.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:But it's not like you're being you're an angel because you made a person.
Marc:Oh, no, of course not.
Marc:But that makes me not.
Marc:No, I don't know that I took it that that far.
Marc:I think just people I think that as animals are as I think people just expect that people have kids.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So you have kids.
Marc:No.
Marc:And then they're like, really?
Guest:Yeah, especially at your age.
Guest:I mean, you don't have kids now because people do it.
Guest:Look, some people like they're dying to have children and God bless you.
Guest:If that's what you want for yourself, then I think that's wonderful.
Guest:Then there's the people in the middle who fell into it for whatever reason, laziness or ambivalence.
Guest:Oops, guess we're doing this.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Or someone wanted it and someone else didn't.
Guest:And, you know, whoops, you should have been paying more attention to whether I had a condom on or vice versa.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And some people who just go, well, I guess this is what you do next because they don't really have any greater ambition for themselves.
Guest:I'm being a real asshole right now.
Guest:I'm just saying, like, if it's what you want for yourself, great.
Guest:But it is a choice.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And I think people think it's a choice not to have kids.
Guest:And I'm saying, no, that's the default state is not to create a person that you have to be emotionally responsible for if you can't lives.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And also you should know yourself well enough.
Marc:If you're deciding not to have kids, maybe that's a good decision.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Like I didn't come from emotionally great stuff.
Marc:You know, I'm a panicky, worrying, aggravated, you know, occasionally impatient, self-centered person.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's like, you know, that sounds like all great parenting stuff.
Guest:Right.
Marc:That's perfect.
Marc:You'd be perfect to raise another human being.
Marc:And then people, then there's this whole angle of like, yeah, but you get, you know, you're going to love it.
Marc:You'll get used to it.
Marc:It's like, you know what?
Marc:I don't want to get used to something.
Marc:Like I don't.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And also, like, you'll learn to love it or you're going to be great.
Marc:I don't know if that's true.
Marc:When I look at my fucking upbringing just emotionally, which wasn't abusive, but it was a little negligent emotionally.
Marc:Like, I don't know if you can beat that.
Marc:I don't know if you can.
Guest:Well, here's the thing.
Guest:You have to want to beat it.
Guest:I know people have had, like, a...
Guest:Like people close to me, their grandparents were emotionally negligent.
Guest:And so their parents really chose, I'm going to have kids.
Guest:I'm going to love the shit out of these kids.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But if that's not swirling around.
Guest:Yeah, it did.
Guest:It did.
Guest:It absolutely worked.
Guest:Like I have a friend whose grandfather was like never touched his kids, never told them he loved him.
Guest:His son hugged his kids every day, told them they loved him every day, was wildly loving.
Guest:He reversed that pattern.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And his kids felt that and saw it and knew it, knew that he was really, he wanted them to know that he loved them deeply.
Guest:And he didn't say it, he showed it in his actions.
Guest:He really broke that pattern.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:Good cognitive work.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And he never went to therapy.
Guest:He just saw what was wrong with his parental relationship.
Guest:And he fixed it in his own life.
Marc:But he found it in himself.
Marc:He's capable of loving.
Guest:He was capable of it.
Guest:But he chose it every day, I think.
Guest:He had to choose it.
Marc:He had to choose it every day.
Marc:Right, right.
Guest:Sounds like a job.
Guest:That's something you have to want for yourself.
Guest:If you were like, I'm going to fix what my parents did.
Marc:With spite.
Guest:With cruelty.
Marc:I'll show them.
Marc:My brother kind of did that, like, I'm going to reverse it.
Guest:Yeah, but you have to want that.
Guest:You just have to want it.
Guest:I just don't think people...
Guest:I don't think people consider enough the responsibility of creating a human being.
Guest:They just think about a baby.
Marc:And also, but it's also, it's interesting just how, like, if they survive the first five to ten years, how resilient they really are.
Guest:They really are.
Marc:They do become separate individuals very quickly.
Marc:And somehow or another, they get through it if the basics are provided.
Guest:If you give them some fundamentals.
Marc:You know, and they do become their own people.
Marc:And then like when they get to be our age, they start thinking about like, what the fuck is wrong with me?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Wait a minute.
Guest:Oh, why am I behaving like this?
Marc:But what was for you?
Marc:Like, what was the moment where that that told you that, like, you know, I'm in trouble?
Marc:with my life just this new thing where you know like you know where you you made all these drastic moves right and you were in therapy what was the the sort of like uh-oh i gotta yeah god that's a good question um
Guest:Sorry for the dead air.
Guest:Because the thing that the real thing that happened.
Marc:How about the laugh that just stuffed all those emotions?
Marc:How about that?
Guest:Just push them down.
Guest:Just push them back down.
Guest:I just had a couple of nights where I just drank too much.
Guest:Alone?
Yeah.
Guest:No, it's interesting.
Guest:It's a really good question because you never think it's too much when you're alone.
Guest:You never think it's too much when you're alone.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:When you're alone.
Guest:When you're stumbling out of your living room.
Guest:I'm not driving anywhere.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:Because it was never like a dumpster fire.
Guest:It was never like I didn't show up for work or I lost a job.
Guest:It was just that my behavior became increasingly sprawling.
Guest:And I'm a very regimented and driven person.
Guest:And I wanted to accomplish things that I wasn't accomplishing because I was just...
Guest:Partying.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And I guess that feels like pretty rote, like pretty much like a like your first thing at AA.
Guest:But people who listen to my podcast will remember I had stopped drinking for almost a year, which was really interesting to me.
Guest:But then I got bored.
Guest:And so I started drinking again.
Marc:And that's funny, because like during that time, you didn't take this any of these creative leaps.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I was very bored.
Guest:I wasn't doing anything radical.
Guest:Because you're just doing your job.
Guest:Eating salad, going to work, eating salad, going to work.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But what happened was I would go out and drink.
Guest:I'd be working.
Guest:I'd be traveling for work.
Marc:I can't imagine you getting sloppy in public.
Guest:I don't.
Guest:It's not it.
Marc:I'd like to see it once.
Guest:It'd be fun.
Guest:It'll happen someday.
Guest:I'll make sure to text you and be like, get down here.
Guest:Mark, you've got 20 minutes to get here before.
Guest:I'm stumbling around.
Guest:I would travel for work.
Guest:And I'd be alone.
Guest:Especially when you're a stand-up, you just get really accustomed to being alone.
Guest:And I made peace with that.
Guest:I'm not one of these people.
Guest:I don't mind being in a fucking hotel.
Guest:I love being alone.
Guest:But I hate...
Guest:The thing where you get back after your show and you're like lying on this kind of like, you know, murder and semen-stained bedspread watching like Law & Order 3 in the morning.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:I'm usually eating candy bars and jerking off.
Guest:Yeah, you know, what's a good time?
Guest:But that's like a seven-minute enterprise.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It's not going to take up the entire evening.
Guest:And then you're watching Law & Order.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I would go and get like these big cups of bar mix, like these, you know, from the bar.
Marc:Oh, you're a savory person?
Guest:I'm a savory person, not a sweet person.
Guest:And then I would get, I would go to the store, I'd buy like a shitty bottle of Sauvignon Blanc, and it'd just be like 3.30, which would be so sad.
Guest:You're making your own bar.
Guest:Just sitting there, just watching one order, bar mix off my chest.
Guest:And so I was like, this isn't interesting to me.
Guest:So I'd start going out by myself.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:So you didn't think like, this is the life.
Guest:No, it wasn't that.
Guest:I'd go out by myself.
Guest:I'm only going to be in this planet one time.
Guest:Like I can't spend a third of it in a shitty hotel room.
Guest:With bar mix on your chest?
Guest:On my chest.
Guest:So I'd go out and I'd drink.
Guest:I'd go to bars and I'd meet people and I'd drink.
Guest:And I just started to feel like I was...
Guest:like i was out at i was closing a bar two in the morning by myself yeah and that and that just didn't feel good either you know what i mean and it would be fun and it'd be funny and then it would be sad yeah so i stopped doing that all the all the uh passing friends people who recognized you the people you were talking they've all gone home yeah yeah like people like i love you on talk soup and then you're still sitting there chatting to the bar by the bartender yeah
Guest:It's like, it's funny.
Guest:It's kind of funny.
Guest:And then it's kind of like a radio story.
Guest:It's like funny, like Ray LaMontagne.
Guest:It's a little sad.
Guest:You know, funny, a little sad.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And I thought, I'm trying to find excitement in the wrong ways and in the wrong places.
Guest:When what I really want is more dynamism in my life overall.
Guest:And like sitting at a bar at two in the morning is not really truly dynamic because no art is coming out of it.
Guest:Nothing interesting is coming out of it.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Other than maybe a sad story.
Guest:Sad story.
Marc:But it's a story that's been told.
Guest:It's not.
Guest:I'm not.
Guest:I haven't put a spin on it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I mean.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, it could have gotten worse.
Guest:Yeah, it could have gotten much worse.
Guest:It could have gotten much worse.
Guest:And I could see how that pattern could turn into something really destructive.
Marc:Well, that's the thing about people like, you know, who are fundamentally, you know, for me, like when I was doing drugs, there was like I had an agreement with myself, you know, like if I ever started to lose my mind.
Guest:Right.
Marc:You know, I would stop.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And usually you don't know that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, no, you're in it.
Guest:How can you?
Marc:But like you, I would imagine that you did have a line for yourself and that you didn't end up in compromising situations.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:Something that would affect my higher ability or something that would affect my personal safety, my physical safety.
Guest:And your soul.
Marc:And my soul.
Marc:I mean, you're a pretty guarded person.
Marc:You're hiding some little girl in there.
Guest:Aren't we all?
Marc:I don't know if we all are.
Guest:I know you are.
Guest:She's in there.
She's in there.
Guest:I, you know, being a comic, your nature is to be divulgent, right?
Guest:Like that's who we are.
Guest:We have to be like things.
Guest:But also defensive.
Guest:And also defensive.
Guest:And that we're like playing that line all the time.
Sure.
Guest:But I don't know.
Guest:There's like a second thing, Mark, which is like the whole time you're getting high or whatever you're drinking, you keep seeing what you want for yourself.
Guest:And it's right on the other side of this fog of self-medication.
Marc:But that's interesting because you're sitting with some bread, with the husband, with the house, with gigs.
Marc:But what are you seeing past that fog?
Guest:Just a more radical artistic life.
Marc:Alone.
Guest:And maybe it's hard to be- With more choices.
Guest:With all of the choices.
Guest:With all of the choices.
Marc:So what you saw was like, I gotta get rid of all of it.
Guest:It wasn't like I got up one morning and was like, I have to burn this down.
Guest:It was that you just start to feel trapped.
Marc:Right, and I gotta make my life smaller.
Guest:How can I have new ideas?
Guest:Even with standup, you know what I mean?
Guest:How can I have new ideas if I'm doing the same shit?
Marc:Well, how much do you track of this?
Marc:Because I remember when we talked, it's weird because I was on your show, but I remember you telling me about your family and that you come from divorce and there was all that.
Marc:Because I find that with a lot of my emotional problems and the repetitions and whatever situation, neither of my parents are alcoholics or anything,
Marc:But I do understand how I came to me.
Marc:I understand my emotional liabilities and where they come from.
Marc:Are you able to track that?
Marc:Are you doing that in therapy?
Marc:Because you grew up, what, with your father?
Guest:Is he still around?
Guest:My parents are both still around.
Guest:And despite the divorce, became very friendly.
Guest:They were able to resolve their issues pretty quickly, at least in regards to the way they interacted with us.
Guest:So I had all of my holidays with my parents for all of my childhood.
Guest:And now even...
Guest:I'll rent a house for Thanksgiving or Christmas and everybody comes and they all stay in the same house together.
Guest:My mom.
Guest:So my dad is remarried.
Guest:My mom was remarried.
Guest:He passed away, so she's a widow now.
Guest:My sister, her wife, their kids, we all get together.
Guest:And we definitely have our shit.
Guest:And I'm working on what my shit is.
Guest:I think that probably...
Guest:It's, you know, like whatever I inherited from my father, who's very loving and very affectionate, but also a dude is probably my emotional distance, which is, you know what I mean?
Guest:I'm just like, you know, you can get in here, but you're not ever going to get all the way in.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Then what if I go?
Marc:Then who am I?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Tendrils in my soft bits.
Guest:What are you going to do with it?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:If you get it.
Guest:Make sure that like, you know, if I have to punch you, there's enough distance between us that I can get a shot at.
Marc:I mean, I deal with that too.
Marc:Emotional distrust.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Which is...
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I mean, protecting yourself.
Marc:No, but I mean, okay, well, well, they did not get too personal only for my own curiosity.
Marc:So like, because I've been married twice for short periods of time, but you know, I'm in a relationship now.
Marc:So you're with a dude 25 years and you met him in high school.
Marc:Fine.
Marc:So, you know, there's a familiarity there, but did you find yourself completely, uh, emotionally trusting and open, uh,
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:So you had that.
Marc:You know what that feels like.
Guest:I did.
Guest:And I do.
Guest:And I think but I think and I'm going to ask you this question, Mark.
Guest:You did you ever find yourself in a relationship allowing seeing your own ambivalence about your feelings?
Mm hmm.
Guest:translate into a concern that the other person was ambivalent.
Guest:Like, oh, if I'm feeling like I don't wanna be in this relationship, they probably are too.
Guest:And then that makes you behave defensively or push someone away.
Guest:Like prophylactically.
Marc:No, I get that.
Marc:But that's the old trick.
Marc:It's really like I don't have the guts.
Guest:But rather than your suspicion of them like I'm not lovable, they don't love me.
Guest:It's like if I feel like I might not want to be here, the likelihood is that they feel that way as well.
Marc:But my experience is that translates to I don't have the guts to end this.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:sure so i'm gonna so i'm gonna be a dick assume i'm gonna project yeah that they want to be they want out and then start saying that like you don't want to be with me exactly exactly and then i'm gonna wreck things and you know and tell you having to be a dick until you hate me and then i got my way yeah i've exhausted you and you have to you want to leave exactly just i'm gonna just just like soil the bed every night until you can't sleep and shit right yeah is that how you handled it
Guest:Yeah, I'm not going to cop to anything.
Guest:I am going to say that I love this book, Mark.
Guest:It's very interesting.
Marc:Don't you change the subject.
Guest:I did.
Guest:I will say that I think, you know, like relationships are tough.
Marc:But you talk about it a lot, right?
Marc:You've written books that deal with this stuff.
Guest:Yeah, and I think that relationships are there.
Guest:They're very difficult.
Guest:And I think, you know, when I was younger, I just thought you fall in love and you stay in a relationship.
Guest:You did that.
Guest:And I did it.
Guest:And I did it for 25 years.
Guest:I can't believe you did that.
Guest:And I and I loved it.
Guest:I loved it.
Guest:And I and I endorse it wholeheartedly.
Guest:I also wonder, though.
Guest:If how how realistic or how natural it is to be with one human being for your entire life.
Marc:Of course, I get that.
Marc:But like, look where you are now.
Marc:Like, you know, you're you're you're free and you know, you you you you gave your life and you committed and you liked it.
Marc:But you're with someone like you're you're you're you're like in in college.
Guest:yeah i i because i yeah i'm i'm back i'm back at like 23 i hit the reset button and now like you know like who knows like i don't like are you dating gonna happen all right um you know how long has it been since you got split up um three years yeah it's hard it takes a while to get over
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It takes a while to get over.
Guest:And I also feel like when you've been in a relationship for a very long time, it's interesting to spend some time with yourself.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, it's interesting.
Guest:But spending time with other people is going to be weird.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And also, I don't want anybody touching my shit.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like I have my shit.
Guest:I have my shit the way I like my shit.
Guest:Don't come in my house and move my shit around.
Marc:So the materialistic shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But like the stuff that represents the way I like my shit to sit and don't touch my shit.
Marc:Yeah, and now that you have a smaller space, you know where all your shit is.
Guest:You know I'm anal.
Guest:I'm very anal.
Guest:So my shit is all lined up.
Guest:There's like six plates and six cups and six bowls.
Guest:They all match.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I don't want anybody touching my shit.
Guest:Yeah, that's the wall you've built.
Guest:That is the wall.
Guest:I have a variety of walls, high and low, some porcelain, some stone.
Marc:Well, what did you end up like?
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:I think it's everyone's fantasy to kind of get rid of everything.
Marc:I mean, what did you get rid of that you thought you would never get rid of?
Guest:Oh, God.
Marc:I mean, what did you... So you sold the house?
Guest:I sold my house.
Guest:I got rid of all my furniture.
Guest:But was it freeing?
Marc:It was very freeing.
Guest:It was very freeing, and I don't miss... I mean, I had one of those hutches.
Guest:that had all the dishes, the occasional dishes, the egg cups and the ramekins for Thanksgiving.
Guest:Here's what it represents, though.
Guest:I don't even cook anymore.
Guest:I used to be a big home chef, and I'd go to a restaurant, eat something, and I'd go home, and I'd replicate it at home, and I made bread from scratch and beer from scratch, and I would have parties where I would make ice creams, and I had a garden, and I...
Guest:Literally, my diet consists of nuts and items from the frozen section at Trader Joe's right now like that, like because I don't want to put energy into anything but making stuff like making art.
Guest:So like I don't even I don't even feed myself.
Guest:Like last night I had a cut up apple for dinner.
Guest:And I had some nuts.
Guest:I had to cut up apple and some nuts for dinner.
Marc:I think, you know, like, but like the thing that you used to be or what that life you were living.
Marc:I mean, there's I like to cook.
Marc:I just bought a new house, you know, and it's like cooking is great.
Guest:It's self-care.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But, you know, like if you're in that loop of like having people over.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:Bring over some wine.
Guest:But I wasn't lying and I wasn't faking it.
Guest:That was who I was.
Marc:No, but I think that it but it's it's a good experience.
Guest:And I enjoyed it.
Guest:And then one day I just didn't want to cook anymore.
Guest:I remember once I had people over.
Marc:It's so funny.
Guest:I did like a seven course meal.
Guest:I fucking risotto and shit.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And now I'm just like, what's not rotting?
Guest:You really are 23.
Guest:Yeah, I am.
Guest:I am living.
Guest:That is it.
Guest:You're right.
Guest:You have.
Guest:I'm going to.
Guest:I'm going to.
Guest:It's like you had this 25 years, and you had a great life, and you're like, I'm going to pick up where I left off.
Guest:Where I left off, yeah.
Guest:And now I'm drinking in a bar on a Wednesday.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I had to talk about my divorce on the talk, and I remember people were very sweet and supportive.
Guest:writing me these messages online and it was very lovely and it was very painful.
Guest:Divorce is agonizing.
Guest:It's agonizing.
Marc:I'm with somebody that would like to get married but I'm not assuming that we'll get divorced but after a point you're like why get married?
Guest:It's okay to be gun shy because this person doesn't know what it feels like on the other end.
Guest:It's like I love you and I understand the impulse for getting married
Guest:But I also know what it feels like to put my hand in flame.
Guest:So I'm not going to do it again.
Guest:Or at least I'm going to take my time.
Guest:That's normal.
Marc:But the whole thing is, it's like after a certain age, it's impossible not to be cynical.
Marc:I mean, I'm sure I'm more cynical than you are.
Marc:Like you're just.
Guest:My cynicism is.
Guest:I have a burgeoning cynicism.
Guest:It's definitely growing.
Guest:But maybe look.
Marc:But you don't even know.
Marc:The part you haven't even got to yet is the next relationship.
Guest:Right, right, right, right.
Guest:And going into it, how can this last?
Guest:How can it last?
Guest:How many heartbreaks do you have in you?
Guest:Right.
Guest:How many times can I be huddled on the floor in a pool of my own tears before I just say, fuck this noise?
Guest:But you haven't had too many of them.
Guest:I haven't done it yet.
Guest:Oh, boy.
Guest:I hope you can handle being 23 at your age.
Guest:I did the one.
Guest:I did the one.
Guest:And the one was fucking agonizing, man.
Guest:It just...
Guest:And it took so long.
Guest:And when you get a divorce, that relationship is a ghost for you forever.
Guest:I think people think, oh, you get over it.
Guest:Well, it stops being so painful.
Guest:But you think about it all the time.
Guest:You think about it every day.
Marc:Well, that'll go away.
Marc:But it is.
Marc:I've talked about it before.
Marc:I don't know how I've talked about it.
Marc:It's always right there.
Marc:i mean the heartache yeah you know it it it gets less and you know you you know i think humans are built to process right heartbreak and grief and you know you definitely get through it and things will happen in your life where you realize like you know that that it's it no longer has power power over you yeah you know to to trigger nostalgia or sadness but but you know there is those years where it's like it's right there oh yeah yeah yeah and
Marc:And when you talk about it, because I got a little screwed in my divorce, she did the right thing.
Marc:But if I tap into that anger, the process of it, you guys, was it clean?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, look, we were together a long time.
Guest:And so when a relationship like that ends, everybody is in a lot of pain.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And I think the way that that can manifest itself is in somebody wanting stuff to...
Guest:make up for the pain.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:Oh, boy.
Guest:So you've psychopathologized that into something manageable.
Guest:I'm comfortable with the idea that the person leaving the relationship, that the person who's not the breadwinner in the relationship feels like they got to leave with something.
Marc:Was it fair?
Marc:That's all I'm asking.
Guest:I'm fine with how it turned out.
Guest:I'm fine with how it turned out.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So then at least you just have maybe nostalgia, heartache, loneliness, and not fuck them.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:What the fuck is that?
Guest:No, I don't feel that way.
Guest:Because, look, if I know how much pain I'm in, I can understand that the other person is going to be in at least that much pain and probably more.
Marc:And also it's scary to enter the world on your own, no matter who you are.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But, I mean, it's interesting.
Guest:It's like...
Guest:you know, you've been married twice.
Guest:I always feel like the first one, you're hopeful.
Guest:The second one, you feel like, well, this one's going to be the one because I did it the one time and I learned some stuff.
Marc:I was not that thoughtful.
Guest:No.
Marc:No, I mean, like, no, I had no plan.
Guest:No, like, no rationalizations about how this was going to work.
Marc:The first one was like, maybe this will fix me.
Yeah.
Guest:Oh, God.
Marc:The second one was, I'm really in love with this one.
Guest:Right, I'm in love.
Guest:Yeah, this is it.
Guest:This is it.
Guest:Love.
Guest:We're going to live on love.
Guest:What was I thinking?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And which one was the one that boned you?
Guest:Number two or number?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You didn't have any money when you married number one.
Marc:I didn't.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:It's always good if you're, you know, come in for a leap for it.
Marc:But like, you know, I have, like, I finally let it go.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it was, you know how, you know what happened with that was,
Marc:and you don't have this experience but you know that you have exes from years ago and there are certain types of exes that like you know once or twice a year they just text you and you see your phone you're like holy fuck what the fuck is that person why are they fucking why are they texting me yeah and then i realized recently like that's who i am to my ex-wife oh hilarious once a year i would just you know shoot an email out thanking her for my sobriety or whatever right right she doesn't want fucking
Guest:No, she don't want to hear from you.
Marc:She don't want nothing.
Marc:And I never really thought about it in a selfless way like that.
Marc:I'm like, I'm that guy.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Because it's interesting.
Guest:When those people are texting you, you're like, I don't want to hear from this person.
Guest:I don't want this scab picked off.
Guest:Right.
Marc:It makes me feel shitty.
Marc:It's scary.
Guest:It's weird.
Guest:Whereas when you do it to her, it's a gesture of generosity.
Guest:You're feeling something specific, whatever it is, or you're trying to work through, you're on some step where you're like, look, I need to let you know.
Marc:Yeah, but if you really track it, it's always, you know, fuck you, I'm still here.
Guest:Fuck you, look at me.
Guest:Yeah, fuck you, I'm fine, I'm doing great.
Marc:Whatever it is, it's not genuinely, there's no selflessness to it.
Guest:Hilarious.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I mean, I feel like if you care about someone, if you ever cared about someone, there's a part of you that always needs to stay connected to them.
Marc:I know.
Guest:But, you know, even if for them, it's it's it's an injury and you shouldn't do it.
Guest:You feel like you need to.
Marc:I think that's true.
Marc:But that's one of those needs you got to keep.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:But then there's a part of you that's like, well, if I don't reach out, maybe they won't know that I still care about them.
Guest:But they don't want to know that about you.
Marc:And do you really care or do you just need some... I don't know.
Marc:Do you just really need to know that you still have an effect?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:No, I don't want... I don't want to be... I don't want to be that person at all.
Guest:I mean, I might be, but I do not want to be the person who's like... You know, like sends an email and then all of a sudden on the other end, like I've set... You know, I've started a fire.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:You know, you've got some... You've still got some shit coming at you.
Guest:I'm still very young, Mark.
Guest:I have plenty of time to make mistakes.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:I know.
Marc:But I mean, like, you know, like you're, you know, three years out and, you know, it's I think you should probably start making good food for yourself.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Instead of eating living on my Trader Joe's Fritos.
Marc:Yeah, but I mean, but you can, like, it's nice to like, you know, if you know what you like to eat, to cook for the week, you know.
Guest:Yeah, I just don't, I just, whenever I'm cooking.
Guest:No joy in it?
Guest:No joy.
Guest:I find it, I'm going to be like, you know, like, you know, Howard Hughes or something like that.
Guest:Just like kind of sitting up at night scribbling with my long fingernails and my urine stained pajamas.
Guest:I just, whenever I cook, I just feel like this is keeping me from doing stuff that like I really want to do.
Marc:Okay, so you keep talking about this.
Marc:So you made this movie, and it's been, what, a year since you made it?
Guest:Yeah, so I made this movie.
Guest:It has been, I finished it, it's 2018.
Guest:Jeez.
Guest:So I finished at the beginning of 2017.
Guest:It went to festivals all last year, and now it's coming out on April 10th.
Marc:And you still do Archer?
Guest:I still do Archer.
Marc:What's that, 900 seasons already?
Guest:Yeah, we're in season nine.
Guest:People love that.
Marc:Your pivotal role in that.
Marc:But that's not uncreative or a big show.
Guest:No, it's not a big chore.
Guest:It's not burdensome.
Guest:I love it.
Guest:I always love that show.
Marc:Criminal Minds is still going.
Guest:Criminal Minds is still going.
Guest:We're finishing season 13.
Guest:I really love doing that show.
Guest:I like the cast.
Guest:So you're employed in a way that you're comfortable.
Guest:In a way that supports my creative life.
Marc:And you're off the talk.
Marc:That demand is gone.
Guest:Yeah, and we're still doing Whose Line Is It Anyway?
Guest:And that's fun.
Guest:Where is that on?
Guest:That's CW on the CW.
Guest:And I think that's weekly this summer.
Guest:Yeah, we did.
Guest:We do.
Guest:We typically do 22.
Guest:And I think the season where there's they've got so many bank that maybe there's only going to be 13.
Marc:It's weird because you live in this world of like, you know, network television that like network television is so smart.
Marc:It's so spread out now.
Marc:It's crazy.
Guest:It's crazy.
Marc:And you have all these jobs.
Guest:And none of them are on the same network.
Marc:Yeah, and they're just sort of all over, and they all have their audiences.
Guest:Right, and they don't really dovetail, right?
Guest:There's no Venn for these shows at all.
Guest:It's interesting.
Guest:And then I just wrote it.
Guest:I finished a script that I'm getting.
Guest:A movie script?
Guest:Yeah, a movie script.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And then my little company, I have a little company.
Guest:It's just essentially me and my assistant, but...
Guest:I'm buying two things to adapt.
Guest:Books?
Guest:Yeah, one's a life story, and then one is a series of books.
Marc:So for series or for movies?
Guest:Hopefully one will be a movie and the other one I don't know yet because I have to explore what it needs to look like.
Guest:It's just neat to be in that place now, making stuff.
Guest:And then I have a booze company coming out, so clearly I'm not sober.
Marc:A booze company?
Guest:I have a spirits company.
Guest:I started a line of ready-to-drink cocktails.
Marc:What are you trying to do?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:World domination, Mark.
Marc:Ready to drink cocktails?
Marc:How is that helping the world?
Guest:It's helping me.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:This is a real problem that I solved, and I'll tell you right now.
Guest:When I was...
Guest:When I was moving back into my bachelorette phase, I would come home after work and I would want a drink.
Guest:And I would just want one drink.
Guest:And I didn't want to pound a beer or have a shot.
Guest:I wanted one well-made delicious cocktail.
Guest:And I didn't want to make it because it made a big mess.
Guest:And as I've already illustrated, I hate doing things.
Guest:So I'd make it and I'd get out my rye glass and my stir and all that shit.
Guest:It's sticky and everything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I started batching them in these bottles.
Guest:I'd make like a bottle of Negroni's and I'd keep it in my fridge so I could just pour out one drink at that night like a classy lady.
Marc:This is so close to an AA qualification.
Guest:It probably is.
Guest:It probably is.
Guest:I'm quite comfortable with where I am in my life.
Guest:And I thought, God, it'd be great if you could buy this in the store.
Guest:So I spent a year like formulating these cocktails and I found a VC partner and then I like started building this company.
Marc:When's that going to launch?
Marc:Summer.
Marc:And what's it called?
Guest:It's called Courage and Stone.
Marc:Courage and Stone.
Guest:Courage and Stone?
Guest:Courage and Stone, yeah.
Guest:So top shelf.
Guest:Courage and Stone.
Guest:Courage and Stone.
Marc:And you're using top shelf liquor to see a partnership?
Guest:It's a tiny distillery out of Brooklyn.
Guest:And it's Whole Foods compliant, kosher.
Guest:It's not like that bottom shelf sticky crap.
Guest:It's something you would make for yourself if you cared to do so.
Guest:Something for people who like to drink alone at home, but they want to mix it up a little bit.
Guest:But they wanna keep it classy.
Guest:Quality cocktail.
Guest:They wanna keep it classy.
Marc:This is not your mom's box wine.
Guest:No, this is not your store-bought margarita mix.
Marc:All right, okay.
Guest:But Mark, look, obviously we've worked it out.
Guest:I have a very compulsive personality.
Guest:I'm just trying to wield my powers to my own benefit, right?
Guest:If I'm gonna be obsessive and compulsive, I would just like to direct that energy towards making things rather than pulling out my eyebrows with my fingernails.
Marc:Look, I'm happy.
Marc:I like the new you.
Marc:You kept your nice clothes and stuff, though, right?
Marc:You can still function in the world.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I actually- You're wearing sweats.
Guest:I always wear sweats.
Marc:I only dress- Like when you go for a meeting for your production company to pitch a show to a network, you still got- I still kind of wear sweats.
Marc:No, come on.
Guest:Yeah, I find all that dressing up to be infernally boring.
Guest:I do it for the red carpet.
Guest:You're just turning your back on all of it.
Guest:I do it for the red carpet, but in my life, I just want to be in sweatpants.
Guest:I'm sure I'm insane.
Marc:I should ask my therapist about it.
Marc:You are not insane.
Marc:No, I think it's exciting.
Marc:I'm surprised that you're in this place.
Guest:You know what it is?
Marc:It's good.
Marc:I'm happy for you.
Guest:I'm done trying to impress people.
Guest:That is part of it.
Marc:Do you believe?
Marc:Really?
Guest:Mark.
Guest:I just don't want to move through the world always worrying about whether I'm impressing people.
Guest:And I think that when you're in your 20s and 30s especially, you're so anxious.
Guest:Am I dressed correctly?
Guest:Do I smell okay?
Guest:Are people going to like me?
Guest:Are they impressed by me?
Guest:And if you divorce yourself from that inner monologue and you just say, I am who I am and I'm going to move through the world the way that I want to and I'm not going to wear a skirt or be fancy or have...
Guest:fancy hair because i don't give a shit right if people don't like this version of me i don't care yeah it's very freeing yeah if i have to go to a meeting i will put on a pair of clean pants good but i i just i'm done with that thing of like oh do they like me do they think i'm good enough like it's it's a waste of mental energy and i think i spent my i spent my time in that eddie for a long time image the image eddie
Guest:Do I look like the other ladies in my life category?
Guest:Am I as fancy as Taraji P. Henson?
Guest:You know, Beyonce's got long nails.
Guest:Maybe I should have long nails.
Guest:I mean, that's a waste of mental energy.
Guest:I guess that's what I'm saying.
Guest:That's why I wear sweatpants all the time because I don't care.
Marc:And why you made your life smaller and you don't cook for a lot of people and you got rid of your ramekins.
Guest:Well, I got rid of all my ramekins.
Guest:Fuck ramekins.
Marc:Great seeing you.
Marc:You're the best.
Marc:You're the best.
Marc:Thanks for having me.
Yep.
Marc:That was fun, right?
Marc:As I said, the new film that she directed is available now on digital download and on-demand providers.
Marc:She's also back on the new season of Archer.
Marc:That's starting Wednesday, April 25th on FXX.
Marc:And don't forget, folks, in life there are occasionally problems you just don't know how to address.
Marc:It can be overwhelming and frustrating.
Marc:Yes, HBO's new series grapples with just that feeling as comedian Wyatt Sinek wades through America's most complex and confusing issues to look for some answers, whether they're helpful or not.
Marc:Wyatt Sinek's Problem Areas airs Fridays at 11.30 p.m.
Marc:You can stream it on HBO Go or HBO Now anytime.
Marc:Watch Problem Areas for questionable solutions to unquestionable problems.
Marc:Questions.
Marc:Questions.
Marc:Questions.
Marc:I don't know if it's breaking down, my ability to talk.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I have a question.
Marc:Oh, man, what was that?
Marc:That's from Cuckoo's Nest.
Marc:Nurse Ratched, I have a question.
Marc:I have a question.
Marc:Why can't I have my cigarettes?
Marc:What was that guy's name?
Marc:He was so good.
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:Where did that come from?
Guest:Boomer lives!
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