Episode 897 - Ted Danson
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucksters?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast, WTF.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:Closing in on the 900th episode.
Marc:Closing in on the evacuation of the garage.
Marc:I don't know if that's the right word.
Marc:Closing in on the transition.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:The transition to the new garage.
Marc:To the garage with a bathroom.
Marc:Yeah, but it's a slow go.
Marc:It's a slow burn.
Marc:It's a slow process because I have the time.
Marc:I've given myself the time.
Marc:I moved my entire house...
Marc:to the new house a few boxes at a time.
Marc:Just not freaking out, going through stuff.
Marc:Well, the big stuff I got some help with, but I got unloaded a lot of the big stuff.
Marc:But if you can do it that way, which I guess most people can't, it's really the way to do it.
Marc:Just take a couple of months and just chip away.
Marc:And that's sort of what's happening here in the garage.
Marc:I'm just starting to box some stuff up.
Marc:I'm doing some recording while I do it.
Marc:And I'm having emotional reactions to everything that I put in the boxes.
Marc:Some stuff is going.
Marc:Some stuff is out.
Marc:But it's been exciting.
Marc:It's been exciting doing all the work on the house that I should have done while I was living in it for my own happiness for whoever gets it.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Unless at the last minute I'm like, I can't do it.
Marc:Today is Monday.
Marc:And today on the show is Ted Danson is here.
Marc:Ted Danson, who, you know, honestly, my first real recollection of Ted Danson, right now he's in that NBC show called The Good Place, and they just finished up their second season.
Marc:You can watch episodes on demand and catch up with season one on Netflix if you'd like.
Marc:But my first recollection of Ted Danson was in the movie Body Heat, Larry Kasdan's film noir with William Hurd and Richard Crenna.
Marc:And...
Marc:And Ted Danson plays the fucking dancing D.A.
Marc:And, you know, I remember seeing him in that movie just thinking, like, who is that guy?
Marc:And I love William Hurt and Danson, like, just, you know, just was right.
Marc:Just kind of held his own, man.
Marc:And then later, obviously, he went on to Cheers and everything else.
Marc:But he was a great film actor in that movie.
Marc:He was tremendous.
Marc:And I'm going to talk to him about that.
Marc:Oh, yeah, I wanted to read this email because I found this to be provocative to me because the guy is right.
Marc:The guy is right.
Marc:High school theater subject line.
Marc:Hey, Mark.
Marc:M-A-R-K.
Marc:It's fine.
Marc:It's fine.
Marc:I'm a retired high school drama teacher and I have to say that as I catch up on the podcast, something that you've been saying is really bothering me.
Marc:You have been verbally cringing with a number of guests about performing in high school plays.
Marc:I think that memory and photos and even videos do not begin to capture the experience of either the performers or the audience of a good production.
Marc:The actual theater experience involves imaginative work from the audience.
Marc:Voluntarily suspending disbelief and participating in the event.
Marc:The physical factors, crap beards, dodgy costumes, sets, etc.
Marc:that make the pictures of productions look so bad are precisely the things we ignore when caught up in theater when it is working.
Marc:So don't put down your work as a student actor.
Marc:It might have been good after all.
Marc:That might have been my best work, buddy.
Marc:But he says, or I'm full of shit and my work life was self delusion and sadness.
Marc:Thanks for reading this, Greg.
Marc:I think that Greg makes a good point.
Marc:And I'm glad it turned around there at the end because I thought he said I was condescending to high school productions.
Marc:Maybe I have been a little bit, but having been in one or two.
Marc:You know, in those memories of that, like, what were we getting away with?
Marc:Well, really, the objective is to to tell the story and enable the audience of whatever age or whatever their judgment is to to engage in the story.
Marc:I think a lot of times when you're in high school productions, the parents are like, oh, look, they're so cute.
Marc:But but I do not think it is impossible or or in any way a long shot that, you know, high school productions can be tremendous.
Marc:You know, it's about getting into those characters and getting that story out there.
Marc:I've been thinking a lot about actors lately.
Marc:I've been thinking a lot about the profession itself.
Marc:I've been thinking about the natural, if somebody has a natural capacity to engage their vulnerability and their humanity within a character, that's the gift.
Marc:that's the gift whatever the character is it's really what's important is being present being vulnerable and being uh and being you know sort of human in those roles not stiff in any way I'm going to talk to David Mamet later this week a little bit about that and about some other stuff but but nonetheless these are the things that's kicking around my brain folks this is it this is it
Marc:There's always a lot going on in my mind and there is a bit going on around here in terms of transitions and repairs and moving and grief in the sense of moving on.
Marc:But I'm okay.
Marc:I ate three candy bars last night.
Marc:That's a red flag.
Marc:Someone keeps bringing boxes of candy bars to the comedy store and putting them in the back for everybody.
Marc:And, you know, if I'm running around, I did four sets the other night in the building.
Marc:Why not slam a Snickers?
Marc:Why not slam a Butterfinger, even if that wasn't your candy bar?
Marc:I didn't even have a candy bar.
Marc:My mom did not, made me so afraid of chocolate and sugar, there was no fucking way I was gonna eat a candy bar.
Marc:Then I had a Rice Krispies treat.
Marc:My neighbor, when I was growing up, Gary, his dad had vending machines, so there was candy bars in his garage.
Marc:Do you remember a candy bar?
Marc:Am I making it up?
Marc:I think it was called 7-Up.
Marc:It had nothing to do with the soda, but it had seven sections.
Marc:And each section was a different type of candy bar, like different type of filling.
Marc:Is that right?
Marc:Was it called 7-something?
Marc:Am I making this up?
Marc:Let me know.
Marc:Let me know, please, people, because this is how I learn things.
Marc:All right, so Ted Danson.
Marc:This was a very exciting thing to me.
Marc:He's a very pleasant guy, and I enjoyed talking to him.
Marc:Hung out, never met him before, almost met him on the red carpet at the SAG Awards, but I instead took a picture of the back of his head and...
Marc:posted it on Instagram because I'm an immature idiot.
Marc:But this is me and Ted Danson doing the thing, doing the talking to each other thing.
Marc:Oh, that was Siri?
Marc:Do you engage Siri?
Guest:Uh...
Guest:I'll do wake-up calls.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah, I'll say, wake me in a half hour.
Marc:Oh, does that work?
Guest:Yeah, and it really does.
Marc:You can just do that?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:See, there's so many things I don't know about anything, about my phone.
Guest:And there's no way... You're not addicted, then?
Marc:No, I can't stop looking at the news and hurting myself.
Marc:But I mean, I'm addicted in the sense that I need to update constantly on what's happening in the world.
Marc:But in terms of actually using it as something, as a tool, you never know that stuff until you just told me.
Marc:I wouldn't have thought to do it, but why not do it?
Marc:As opposed to set the clock with my fingers.
Marc:Until someone teaches you anything, you don't know how to use anything.
Marc:There's no manual for this shit.
Marc:And these things are so much smarter than us, all of them, that you don't know until someone goes, oh, you can just do that one thing.
Marc:And you're like, oh, I was doing nine things.
Marc:I didn't know.
Guest:I was always that way.
Guest:If a model airplane or something, if you had to read the instructions, then I was out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, yeah, sure.
Marc:I mean, I feel that way too.
Marc:Ikea furniture is a big challenge.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Going to Ikea is a big challenge.
Marc:Exhausting, dude.
Marc:Exhausting.
Marc:Home Depot, terrible.
Marc:Do you do that still or have you got people?
Guest:No.
Guest:I actually, see, I love going shopping.
Guest:I have tons of people, but I love going shopping.
Guest:I love going to the supermarket.
Marc:I love going to a hardware store.
Marc:Hardware store is good.
Marc:The best.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Hardware store, supermarket's fine.
Marc:Home Depot, it's a whole other animal.
Marc:It's not, you can't find anything.
Marc:If you're there for a small item, it's a terrible experience.
Marc:And you realize just how much you don't know about construction and how things are made.
Marc:So Santa Monica is where you drove from?
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:Rustic Canyon.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Do you know that area?
Guest:I don't.
Guest:God, it's below Will Rogers Park, below the Palisades.
Guest:I don't go out there.
Guest:And it's had rivers down there.
Guest:They have redwoods.
Guest:We have trees all over the place.
Guest:Is it new?
Guest:Do you just got it?
Guest:You just moved there?
Guest:You've been there a while?
Guest:No, we've been there two or three years now.
Guest:And it's just a complete wilderness?
Guest:Feels that way.
Guest:You don't feel like you're in LA.
Guest:You feel like you're in Northern California.
Guest:Oh, that's great.
Marc:Like Big Sur?
Guest:Yeah, LA style, Big Sur.
Marc:And I guess you got to stay here for business, but how long have you been out here?
Marc:Kids.
Marc:We have kids and grandkids.
Marc:You have grandkids now?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That's what keeps you here?
Yeah.
Marc:and work right yeah do you have another place in another estate yeah where's that uh back east martha's vineyard oh so you go there too yeah martha's vineyard that's nice we got married there you and mary me and my wife mary steenburgen the actress yeah i saw you very i saw you at the sag awards i didn't introduce myself i was literally right behind you on the line and it was the first photo i took and instagram was the back of your head
Marc:and i bet you you didn't have to put my name i get recognized in airports walking away from people i thought that was the that was what was great about it is that it was clearly there's no mistaken the back of your head i literally will walk by and there's people in an airport and they'll go is that then then they'll walk past me and i realize they're looking at my ball spot going yeah that's him
Marc:It's not the bald spot.
Marc:It's the shape of your head.
Marc:And you're also nine feet tall.
Marc:I mean, they're not going like, that's the bald head dance.
Marc:And they're saying that head is a signature head.
Marc:But why only from behind?
Marc:Well, you have a certain hairstyle.
Marc:I don't think so.
Marc:Because you've spent your life trying to avoid people seeing that, right?
Marc:By being tall.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But so they don't know.
Marc:But that's what people, when I posted it, they're like, Ted's going to be mad at you because it's a bald spot.
Marc:I'm like, no, he's not.
Marc:It's about his head.
Marc:That's my signature.
Yeah.
Marc:You're keeping it up front.
Guest:So the rest of it is the world's problem.
Marc:How many kids you have?
Guest:I have two.
Guest:Mary has two.
Guest:So we have four together and then three grandkids.
Marc:Four together, but not together.
Marc:Correct.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Both from previous marriages.
Guest:Joined together.
Guest:We have four kids.
Marc:And how many grandkids?
Guest:Three.
Marc:That's exciting.
Marc:Oh, it is.
Marc:And they're all here?
Marc:They're all in, yes.
Marc:Around?
Guest:Around, yeah.
Guest:And show business?
Guest:The kids?
Guest:I'm trying to figure out in my sleepy state.
Guest:Forgive me.
Marc:It's all right.
Marc:I got up at three this morning for some crazy reason.
Marc:Do you want that?
Marc:There's water there for you.
Marc:I would have offered you coffee, but I don't have the capacity anymore.
Marc:There's nothing in my house.
Marc:No.
Marc:Three in the morning you woke up?
Guest:That's me swallowing.
Marc:It was very good.
Marc:Well done.
Marc:A lot of craft.
Guest:I did.
Guest:I did.
Guest:I made coffee, so the coffee's wearing off.
Marc:You didn't try to go back to sleep?
Marc:No.
Marc:Once I'm up, I'm up.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah, it's nasty.
Marc:I wake up earlier now, too.
Marc:It drives me nuts.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But three's rough, because it's still dark.
Guest:No, three was crazy.
Marc:And for no reason.
Marc:You're just up.
Marc:No reason.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:um but what was the question show business kids in show business yeah and i was trying to figure out how much they're not crazy about it when i talk about them all that much but no but let me go we have uh you know like charlie mcdowell yeah uh is a director oh yeah i saw him at a party i did not introduce myself you don't introduce yourself to many people do you no i do my family i do you know like um i don't know what to say all the time do you know what i mean like sometimes that's my life
Marc:yeah yeah because like i like i like i didn't know we were going to talk when i saw you at the thing the other day and you know if i introduce myself there's always the risk because you know i'm there on the red carpet but who am i really it's my own insecurity i'm going to go hi ted dance i'm mark maron you're like nice to meet you you're not going to take the time to go who are you what do you do are you with this are you you know what i mean i might have given you my generic hey
Marc:well rehearsed with the slight like slight recognition almost it means everything hey makes people feel good it's familiar and clearly i know you right i wouldn't have given you that yeah of course yeah very polished and i'm glad that you yeah that's the thing but the mcdowell kid i saw at a party with his his father who i would have liked to introduce myself but again malcolm mcdowell what am i going to say to him
Guest:Good job.
Guest:Yeah, good job.
Guest:Unbelievable.
Guest:Man, he was at the center of kind of British film when it made that amazing turn.
Marc:Oh Lucky, what was it?
Marc:Oh Lucky Man?
Marc:Oh Lucky Man.
Marc:And Clockwork Orange.
Guest:Clockwork Orange, yeah.
Marc:And then like there's a long, you know, like that's what he's recognized for, for his life.
Marc:he's going to be the guy from clockwork orange yeah he's doing a lot of work though he's non-stop no no he's great yeah no you're right well that well that's but that's the interesting about you man i mean you could have you could have been sam malone for the rest of your life but you're ted danson that's not easy do you know what i mean yeah no i was lucky i was lucky in that i found i was lucky enough to be on really good writers yeah
Guest:And if the writers make a story that's compelling and a character that's interesting, then you can get out of that typecast place you were.
Marc:I guess so.
Marc:You think that's what it is?
Marc:I mean, I think it depends what people's relationship is with that character.
Marc:And although that relationship was, you know, I would imagine it's like for the other guys, for the secondary characters on that show, the guys at the bar.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like, they're always going to be those guys.
Marc:You know, Wendt and the Postman guy, right?
Marc:Right, John.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, you know, you're never going to disconnect them.
Marc:But for some reason, though you were the center of that thing, you've become Ted Danson.
Guest:Well, a little bit because my character's job, my job as an actor was to let the audience in.
Guest:I wasn't supposed to be.
Marc:You were the portal?
Guest:Yeah, I was the portal and not the crazy zany.
Guest:I was a little more sane.
Marc:You were the codependent at the center of the whole thing.
Guest:Yes, my job was to love everyone else and their craziness.
Guest:What a job.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:No, it was great because I truly do love them.
Marc:They were astounding.
Marc:Yeah, such a funny show, obviously.
Marc:I don't think I've talked to any of the other people from that show.
Marc:But there's a weird thing about that show in me, about Cheers, is that when I was in college in Boston, I went to that bar my freshman year, like what time, when did Cheers start, 82?
Marc:The Bull and Finch, you went to the Bull and Finch.
Marc:82 was it, the beginning?
Marc:Yes, 82.
Marc:So like 81, my freshman year of college, we were just in Boston, me and this kid, Renee, and we went to that place.
Marc:And Rhea Perlman and Danny DeVito were in the bar that night.
Marc:That night looking at it, scouting it, because I guess it had been written or pitched, and she was going to be in it.
Marc:I don't know what their involvement was, but we were there the night that they were there sitting there looking at it.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:That's a true story, because they did that.
Marc:They did it, right?
Marc:Yeah, and you saw them.
Marc:That's amazing.
Marc:I did.
Marc:It was crazy, because I didn't know anything.
Marc:I was like, that's Danny DeVito.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:From probably Cuckoo's Nest was my point of reference.
Marc:I have a weird point of reference with him.
Marc:I thought he was amazing in Cuckoo's Nest.
Marc:Unbelievable.
Marc:As Martini.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Just sitting there putting things in his mouth and like, it was great.
Marc:So where did you come from?
Guest:Where did I come from?
Guest:I came from, how far back are we going?
Guest:All the way.
Guest:Arizona.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I came from San Diego.
Guest:You were born in San Diego?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you're a California guy.
Guest:California, well, right after the Navy war is over guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So then we- What, your dad?
Guest:My dad was in the Navy.
Guest:And so then we went to Colorado.
Guest:Then he was an archaeologist, anthropologist, my daddy.
Guest:For the Navy?
Guest:You know what?
Guest:By the way, if I had gotten a full eight hours sleep, I wouldn't be any quicker.
Guest:This is what you got right here.
Marc:I'll keep you on top of it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's an anthropologist before he went into the Navy, and then he continued his anthropology.
Marc:Correct.
Marc:Started teaching in Tucson.
Marc:University of Arizona?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:I like Tucson.
Marc:It is.
Guest:It's actually pretty much the coolest city.
Marc:So you were a kid in Tucson?
Yeah.
Guest:Until I was about eight.
Guest:Then we went to Flagstaff, Arizona.
Marc:Not so cool.
Marc:A little lean.
Guest:Lean.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now supposedly different because of the university up there is like taking off.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:But I was outside the city.
Guest:I grew up three and a half, four miles outside of Flagstaff.
Guest:My father was the director of the museum and the research center.
Guest:But it was a big deal because you go from 13,000 feet on the top of the San Francisco Peaks all the way down to the bottom of the Grand Canyon.
Guest:So every ology in the world goes there, paleontology, everything, geology, archaeology.
Guest:It's an amazing resource.
Guest:And it was also dedicated to the Hopi, Navajo, Zuni, and Pueblo Indians in that they wanted to stimulate their culture and make sure that it didn't go away, the arts and the crafts.
Guest:So my best buddies growing up were all Hopi, Navajo, and ranchers, sons and daughters.
Guest:Yeah, literally.
Guest:I mean, it was like jump on a horse and come back at night kind of growing up.
Guest:You rode horses?
Marc:Yeah, it was actually really genuinely cool.
Marc:That's amazing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And were you taken in in terms of as family or friends with the indigenous people?
Marc:I mean, did you have an experience with that?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Because that's such a unique experience.
Guest:It is.
Guest:Especially the, well, the Hopi is what I knew more.
Guest:My friend Raymond Coyne.
Guest:The Hopi lived basically on three mesas up in northern Arizona, and they've lived there forever.
Guest:They never went to war with the United States, so they never got moved anywhere.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So it's not a reservation by virtue of being moved.
Marc:Correct.
Marc:It's probably a reservation, but it was always there.
Guest:And one of the oldest, the oldest inhabited village in the country is in Wolpe, is in the Hopi mesas.
Guest:And you've been up there?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I would go, you know, you could read a book about the Hopi and probably know more than I do.
Guest:But my best friends and I played in and out of the plazas where the kachinas would dance and, you know.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It was really amazing.
Marc:It is amazing to have a little bit.
Marc:I grew up in northern New Mexico.
Marc:I grew up in Albuquerque.
Marc:Oh, well, there you go.
Marc:But I mean, I have that.
Marc:I didn't have friends that lived on the reservation or were Indians.
Marc:But you had the Pueblos.
Marc:Yeah, but the culture was there.
Marc:You go to the state fair.
Marc:You go to Indian Village.
Marc:You eat the fried bread.
Marc:You see the dance.
Marc:But I mean, I think that's a very limited experience.
Marc:I can't really call myself as a, you know, I've had some experience with the indigenous people of the United States.
Marc:I went to the state fair and ate the bread.
Marc:And the Spanish.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:That's a very, yeah.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I shouldn't call it tough, but it is.
Marc:It is a little rough now.
Marc:It has been.
Marc:I don't know why.
Marc:Do you shoot there ever?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I visited Mary, who shot there.
Guest:I've never shot there.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, when I grew up, I didn't know better.
Marc:I mean, but there was always a sort of high violence rate, but it was not... I didn't notice it.
Marc:Well, that came later.
Marc:That came later.
Marc:I mean, I was out years ago.
Marc:I don't have any... How old are you?
Marc:54.
Marc:My dad's there.
Marc:He's still in New Mexico, but he seems to... I don't know.
Marc:He's managing to somehow be off the grid and still in it.
Marc:I don't...
Guest:In Albuquerque or nearby?
Marc:He's pretty much in Albuquerque by the mountains, but he lives in his own world with a little bit of Fox TV added.
Marc:Does he listen to you?
Marc:He claims he can't figure out how to do it.
Guest:How to let his son in.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:It's been eight years.
Marc:When I wrote a book, that got to him.
Marc:But the podcast, not so much.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You live with it.
Marc:If you got a dad that's weird, it's just the way it is.
Marc:But your dad wasn't, it sounds like.
Guest:No.
Guest:No, he wasn't.
Marc:He was a decent guy with a noble purpose.
Marc:He was a good guy.
Guest:He was a good guy.
Guest:He loved people.
Guest:He loved being around people.
Guest:He was thoroughly embarrassing.
Guest:I mean, you know, he was the guy who would tell his joke just a little bit louder in the restaurant, hoping that the table next door would get in on it.
Guest:And they would.
Guest:Good jokes?
Guest:Didn't matter.
Guest:They were just horribly embarrassing.
Marc:So he liked bringing people in.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:If he didn't get two or three other tables enjoying his joke.
Marc:Yeah, that's good.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So he was a real center of attention guy.
Guest:He was.
Guest:But did he go on digs and stuff?
Guest:Did you go on digs?
Guest:Yes, I did.
Guest:That was very cool.
Guest:Like in Tucson, there'd be the archaeological summer camp for the students up in the White Mountains Apache Reservation near Globe.
Guest:And yeah, I'd be four or five years old and they'd let the little kids...
Guest:play in the trash heaps, the ancient trash heaps.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Where they'd throw the pots.
Guest:Pieces of ceramics, yeah.
Guest:600 years ago, they'd throw the broken pots away.
Guest:And as soon as you found anything, though, if you found a bone, or a piece of turquoise.
Marc:Get out of the way, kid.
Marc:You were out.
Marc:Let the pros in with the brooms and the dusters.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you find little shards of pottery and stuff.
Marc:Pottery.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I was so good that I could spot, on horseback, I could spot turquoise beads riding without getting off.
Guest:I could look down.
Guest:God, your eyes were that good, huh?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you knew where to look.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Ant hills.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You'd look at anthills.
Marc:Oh, because they do the digging?
Guest:Yeah, they do the digging for you, and then you spot these.
Marc:Oh, that's a good trick for people that are into that.
Marc:The anthills, they've already done some of the work for you.
Marc:But it sounds like you were riding bareback?
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:My father wouldn't let me ride with a saddle unless I was with another person.
Guest:On my own, I had to ride bareback.
Guest:Why?
Guest:The fear is if you fall, you get hung up on a saddle.
Marc:And dragged?
Guest:And get really hurt.
Marc:But if you fall bareback, you break something and you're fine.
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:So when was the last time you got on?
Marc:Did you have to do any horse?
Marc:I don't remember you in a movie where you had to ride a horse.
Guest:Not really.
Guest:I did one movie called Cowboy, a TV movie called Cowboy.
Guest:I got to tear ass around on a horse.
Marc:Did you impress everybody?
Marc:Did it come right back to you?
Marc:Is it like riding a bike?
Guest:A little bit.
Guest:The technique is like riding a bike.
Guest:Your body, though, is like, no, get off.
Guest:Get off.
Guest:Don't do this.
Guest:These days are over.
Guest:And horses, if you have a great horse, then you have a chance of being a good rider.
Guest:But if you have a bony, poorly gated horse, you're just in trouble.
Marc:I'm terrified of them.
Marc:I went to a camp up in Pecos where we were assigned a horse.
Marc:Pecos, New Mexico.
Marc:It's pretty up there.
Guest:Gorgeous.
Guest:Great fishing.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Trout fishing, right?
Marc:In the river there.
Marc:The Pecos River.
Marc:But yeah, I was assigned a horse and it bit me and I just can't stand them.
Marc:I can't.
Marc:I'm too scared and they know it and it's terrible.
Guest:They do because they have the brain the size of a walnut but intuition.
Guest:Is it really a walnut size?
Guest:Yeah, a little brain but...
Marc:totally intuitive yeah well that's it they're animals yeah right comes mark who's terrified yeah yeah they know like cats i have several cats and uh they all have different personalities and they all sort of act in response in reaction to me like i always wondered like why do i get all these skittish weird cats never i didn't blame myself for years i did i just i had bad luck and i'm like clearly making them all nervous
Marc:I'm feeling a little skittish.
Guest:Not bad.
Guest:I'm calming down.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm calming down.
Marc:Well, it's like it was, you know, it's a long drive and you don't know what you're getting into and it feels odd.
Marc:Like, why am I in this neighborhood?
Marc:What is this neighborhood?
Guest:No, I was actually kind of excited.
Guest:I was terrified that I didn't have, that I was going to be sleepy, tired.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Crazy brain.
Guest:By the way, I listened to Richard Jenkins.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Who's just one of my favorite actors.
Guest:Yeah, he's something, huh?
Guest:Yeah, my wife Mary worked with him on Step Brothers.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:They were just great.
Marc:She's very funny in that movie.
Marc:That's a goofy movie.
Marc:He can do anything.
Marc:He can.
Marc:It seems like you as well can, and I think that he can.
Marc:It seems like, you know, because I think about like the first time I saw you was in Body Heat.
Marc:And I remembered it because, you know, I was sort of a film, a little bit nerdy in high school, but like when Body Heat, I was a huge William Hurt fan came out.
Marc:And Lawrence Kasdan, you know, well, I don't know why I was into him, but we were excited about Body Heat when I was in high school.
Marc:What was that, like 80, what, 80?
Marc:Ooh, yeah.
Guest:79?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, about 80, you're right.
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, and I was like, who's that guy?
Guest:Who's the dancing DA?
Guest:DA.
Guest:And I'm not a dancer, but what we had was a writer's strike or somebody struck.
Guest:Some union struck.
Guest:And what went from a two-week rehearsal became a two-month rehearsal.
Guest:And we just kept rehearsing until the strike was over, and then we went and shot it.
Marc:So you actually learned how to dance?
Guest:Is that what you're saying?
Guest:Yeah, I had a choreographer who worked with me for two months.
Guest:We'd go into parking lots and learn how to dance off car bumpers or whatever.
Marc:It's interesting that it was a decided character behavior.
Guest:It was written in.
Guest:No, in the script.
Guest:You can literally take that script that you auditioned with and go to the movie and conduct it like a score.
Guest:Literally everything is in it.
Guest:He wrote it, rewrote it.
Guest:He storyboarded the film so that we would shoot a half a master, a third of a close-up because he just literally knew every shot that he needed.
Marc:And he's a smarty.
Guest:Yeah, he's really smart.
Marc:Like, he's sharp.
Marc:It's a challenging thing to do a film noir in the modern world because so many of them fall flat.
Marc:When you think of contemporary film noirs or even post-film noir time, you come up with Chinatown.
Marc:It's always Chinatown, right?
Marc:So now you've got LA Confidential, Chinatown, and Body Heat, I think, are solid for the genre.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But there have been other ones.
Marc:The music was amazing.
Marc:In Body Heat?
Marc:I'm trying to remember.
Guest:Yeah, it's kind of dramatic.
Guest:I think it was John Williams.
Guest:But how do you get into acting?
Guest:Do you have siblings?
Guest:Yes, I have a sister, Jan, who I just spoke to on the way here.
Guest:Is she all right?
Guest:She's good.
Guest:What does she do?
Guest:She's married.
Guest:She's very involved in the Episcopal Church.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Which, in the case of her church, means she's working with migrant workers a lot and immigration issues and things like that in Arizona.
Marc:Did you grow up Episcopal?
Marc:I did, yes.
Guest:What is it?
Guest:I was an acolyte, yes.
Guest:Is that what they're called?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What does that mean?
Guest:Is that the... The guys that come out before the priests and light the candles.
Marc:Oh, it's an acolyte in the Episcopal.
Marc:I don't know anything about the Episcopal Church.
Marc:Where does that come from?
Guest:It's a... I don't know if this is accurate or just a joke, but it's like a watered-down version of Catholicism.
Guest:Oh, so it's a... It's very, very next door.
Marc:Oh, rooted in Catholicism.
Guest:It's the Church of England, so the Pope is not...
Guest:right the the guy and i got it yeah religious upbringing uh you know church every sunday oh yeah uh but it wasn't it wasn't something that we was preached at us right but you weren't brought up terrified of hell and no no it was very it was very uh it was a happy place and my some of my best friends went there and community thing
Guest:yeah yeah yeah i've talked to other people but i also was at the same time i was going to church every sunday i was going to the hopi dances and watching people worship their gods yeah the same way they had in the same place for the last five six hundred years and it was very real yeah so my it was never my way of the highway when it came to spirituality
Marc:And you registered that at that age, though?
Guest:You registered that- I don't think like I am right now talking to you, but yeah, I mean, it was- This is how they worship.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And this is how we do it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Much different.
Guest:We had Mormons around and all of that.
Guest:I felt a little sad for the Mormons because- They were around in pockets.
Marc:They had come down from, they had drifted south of Utah.
Marc:They ended up in southern New Mexico, too, I think, in Silver City.
Marc:And yeah, the Mormons are spreading out.
Guest:I had a handful of friends at an early age.
Guest:I felt sad that only Mormons got to go to heaven because that must have made him feel kind of bad playing with us.
Guest:So I remember thinking, that must feel bad.
Marc:That's in the book of Mormon, that only Mormons go to heaven?
Guest:I think basically that's why they're so good with ancestry.
Guest:I shouldn't be saying they.
Guest:I don't really know what I'm talking about.
Marc:But they are great at ancestry because I think if you- They got a hollowed out mountain with everybody's name in it.
Guest:Because if I'm a Mormon and I marry non-Mormons, then it would be horrible if you'd be saying to your bride that none of your parents are in heaven.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So you can retroactively get everybody in.
Marc:Oh, that's it.
Marc:I go to Salt Lake to work sometimes, and I'm fascinated with the whole thing.
Marc:They're generally pretty pleasant.
Guest:Oh, and do amazingly good deeds out in the world.
Guest:I mean, they put their actions.
Marc:Sure, sure.
Marc:They tend to go a little Republican, but, you know, what are you going to do?
Marc:Yeah, what are you going to do?
Marc:All right, so how do you get into acting?
Guest:So I go to, oh, so my sister goes away.
Guest:This is in Arizona, and we didn't have great school systems at that point, and I was a lazy student.
Guest:My sister was going away to Wellesley.
Guest:Oh, that's a good school.
Guest:Yes, my rancher friends who had been homeschooled were then being sent away to school, and I was like, wait, whoa, whoa, don't leave me behind.
Guest:What about me?
Guest:And so it was my idea, but at age 13, I was sent away or got to go away to Kent School for Boys, which was an Episcopal church school.
Guest:Where?
Guest:In Kent, Connecticut.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's a big shift.
Marc:It was.
Marc:Like that's like little outfits, kids who didn't have a horse experience.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Kids who didn't have Indian experience.
Marc:Or they had very expensive horses that knew how to jump.
Guest:Oh, they had those?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So that was always a full range, huh?
Marc:Mostly really rich kids or what?
Guest:No, you know what?
Guest:It was really interesting.
Guest:You paid how much you could pay.
Guest:It was on a sliding scale.
Guest:So you had kids from the inner city.
Guest:You had the son of the head of Ford Motor Company.
Guest:You know, it was a huge range of people.
Marc:And so what was it?
Marc:And you were 13?
Marc:I was 13.
Marc:That's a pretty pivotal time.
Marc:All boys?
Marc:All boys.
Guest:It's a miracle.
Guest:You're looking at a miracle.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:After an all-boys school, it's...
Marc:But you sought it out.
Marc:Yeah, I did.
Marc:You wanted to get out because your friends were leaving.
Guest:I just thought it sounded adventuresome.
Guest:I got to get on the Santa Fe Super Chief.
Guest:Oh, you took the train all the way across?
Guest:Yeah, all the way across.
Marc:Oh, that's exciting.
Guest:Because it was snowing so much in the winter that it was easier to do that.
Marc:By yourself you went on the train?
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Oh, at 13?
Marc:Oh, it was amazing.
Marc:Steward took care of you?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Kept an eye out?
Marc:Or you'd go to the dining room.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I guess I was 14 when it started.
Marc:That's it.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:You'd end up and you'd go to Chicago.
Guest:Then you'd take the 20th Century Limited down to Grand Central.
Guest:And then you'd have an hour, hour and a half to go.
Guest:Get on the commuter line.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, you'd go to Times Square.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And just go, oh my God.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:This is in the 60s.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Where am I?
Guest:And then you'd run back to Grand Central and you'd get on this special two-car train that took you to Kent School for Boys.
Marc:Right to the school?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you never left until the holidays.
Guest:You couldn't go to town.
Guest:You couldn't do anything.
Guest:It was just very strict.
Marc:The train is so great.
Marc:I took it after college.
Marc:I had some sort of romantic beatnik idea about taking the train from New York to New Mexico.
Marc:And I crapped out in Austin.
Marc:I was like, I'm getting on a plane.
Guest:So did you go to Chicago and then down?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I went to Chicago and I think all the way down to Memphis and across the bottom.
Guest:Oh, Southern Pacific.
Marc:Yeah, because I know I ended up in Memphis.
Marc:But Chicago is great.
Marc:It's a great station to go into.
Marc:It must have been much different, though, in the 60s.
Marc:Oh, it's incredible.
Marc:It was still beautiful, but this was 1987.
Guest:Was it Amtrak by then?
Guest:Yeah, it was definitely Amtrak.
Guest:Because back when it was not Amtrak, when it was the Santa Fe, it was just linens and silverware.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Still?
Guest:Chefs that made meals.
Guest:No kidding.
Guest:Yeah, it was really spectacular.
Marc:Oh, that's a great experience to have had.
Marc:So you go to the boys' school.
Guest:Basketball saves my life.
Guest:I just loved it.
Guest:It was my passion.
Marc:You killed in the basketball.
Guest:In a small school kind of way.
Guest:It was pretty good.
Guest:Stanford.
Guest:I went to Stanford University.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:You got to do a good college after all.
Guest:But literally did nothing.
Guest:At Stanford or did you get there?
Guest:Both.
Guest:I'm not a great student.
Guest:But because I kind of know I'm not a great student, I don't really care about
Guest:tests and exams, I find them kind of like a puzzle, kind of fun, because I'm probably not going to do great on it.
Guest:I don't beat myself up about that.
Guest:So I test really high.
Guest:So I used to get into things.
Marc:You test high just because you like to be challenged by them, but you don't freak out about it.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I got into advanced placement English at Stanford University because of tests I took at the end of Kent.
Guest:And my teacher at Kent said, for someone who has the least amount of native intelligence,
Guest:You got one of the highest scores, which is a problem because then I went to the advanced placement English class, freshman Stanford, and not only could I not understand what the professor was saying, I had no idea what the student next to me had even asked them.
Guest:I was so over my head.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:An advanced placement in English.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What could have been so cryptic?
Marc:I have no idea.
Marc:Maybe.
Marc:Were you speaking Middle English?
Marc:The combination of words.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I mean, I have not had the experience with English except for Middle English when you're reading those old poems.
Marc:You know, I'm fairly smart.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I'm not...
Guest:I'm not someone who can impress you with my intelligence.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:No, I get it.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But people who impress you with their intelligence usually are boring as batshit.
Guest:Sometimes.
Guest:Yeah, I think that's true.
Guest:Or else they make you feel like... If they're trying to impress you with their intelligence, then I'm out.
Guest:The ones that... I shouldn't make generalities.
Guest:The ones that I enjoy the most or appreciate the most are the people that don't make me feel stupid.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That their ideas, no matter how brilliant, are communicated to me in a way
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:Where I go, oh, wow, of course, I understand.
Marc:Or they sort of spark you to be like, I gotta figure out what the fuck that was.
Guest:Because if I'm not understanding your communication and you're communicating to me, then fuck you.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And if you're doing that on purpose, fuck you again.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You trying to condescending fucker?
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I know exactly that feeling.
Marc:It happens less as we get older, though, doesn't it?
Marc:The witch.
Marc:Being condescended to by super smarties.
Guest:Yes, you do get a pass if you've been around.
Guest:I've reached the Mr. Danson stage of my career, and I'm getting a lot of passes.
Guest:I really am.
Guest:That's what you work for.
Marc:Things that used to bother you don't anymore, and people give you a pass.
Marc:It's the freedom of aging.
Marc:So when do you get into acting?
Marc:How does that happen?
Guest:Okay, then I go to Stanford, and I think basketball, basketball.
Marc:What position do you play?
Guest:Forward.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:At 6'2".
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's short, right?
Guest:Yeah, very short.
Guest:And maybe on a good day, touch the rim.
Guest:So we're not talking about a jumper.
Guest:We're not talking any real skills, to be honest.
Guest:Just loved it.
Guest:Passionate.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So I show up.
Marc:But this is a theme with you both in scholastic work, just passion and the challenge of tests and then with basketball.
Guest:I have no real talent at anything really except I'm a great appreciator.
Guest:I appreciate like crazy.
Guest:I will make you feel good.
Guest:I'm a good cheerleader.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But that's really basically what I have to offer the world.
Guest:I will appreciate the hell out of you.
Guest:Yeah, but no, you have the talent.
Guest:Let's not diminish the... But look at the first thing I talked to you about was Sam Malone and his job.
Guest:My job as an actor was to appreciate the people around me.
Guest:Right.
Marc:I'm really good at that.
Marc:Okay, but you've done other parts, so let's not come unglued here.
Marc:All right, I'm being a little silly.
Marc:No, you're not being silly.
Marc:As a creative person and as somebody, an actor, I would imagine if you think too much about it, you're like, what do I do?
Marc:What do I do?
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:But you obviously have a talent.
Marc:Yes, I like make-believe.
Marc:I like to pretend.
Guest:There you go.
Guest:I like, yes, of course.
Marc:That is essentially what acting is.
Marc:Yes, of course.
Marc:So you're at Stanford and- Pretending that I'm a basketball player and I go out.
Marc:But it seems like he actually did that.
Guest:He pulled it up.
Guest:No, I went to the freshman tryouts for freshman basketball the same year that Lou Alcindor was a freshman at UCLA.
Guest:So I didn't even step on the court.
Guest:I came up to kind of the line.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I just watched these people play for about two minutes and turned around, sobbed a little, choked back tears.
Guest:And then about a year and a half later at Stanford, stumbled into an audition following some girl I wanted to take out who had an audition.
Guest:And I went, can I come with you?
Guest:And it was just like light bulbs, music, sledgehammer over the head.
Guest:It was just, oh.
Marc:It was just for the non-theater school production of something?
Marc:Like, what was it for?
Guest:It was for Bertolt Brecht's Man East Man.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And I got the smallest part you could get in it and still be in the play.
Guest:It was kind of cool there because they had, for about three or four years at Stanford, they had a small repertory of professional actors there.
Guest:And so they would help teach classes.
Guest:It was really an amazing time.
Guest:And I pulled up my station wagon to the back of the studio theater and slept there.
Guest:I just never left.
Guest:Literally, I never went to any other classes.
Guest:And people said, if you're serious, you should go back east.
Guest:Then I went to Carnegie Mellon to really seriously study acting.
Guest:So you finished at Stanford?
Marc:No, I transferred after two years.
Marc:To Carnegie Mellon?
Marc:That's a big one.
Guest:Yeah, that was like Juilliard, Northwestern.
Marc:So was it an undergraduate program or a graduate program?
Marc:Undergraduate.
Marc:So you stayed there another, what, couple years?
Guest:Three and a half years, yeah.
Marc:As a transfer student, I could leave in three years.
Marc:And that was where you put the craft together?
Marc:That's where you learned how to do it?
Guest:Well, kind of.
Guest:Kind of.
Guest:And then New York, I studied again.
Guest:I studied with a student of Sandy Meisner, who was the neighborhood playhouse.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:One of the great teachers.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Meisner.
Marc:Meisner method.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Talk to people about the Meisner method.
Guest:You have.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Repetition.
Marc:Repetition.
Marc:Yeah, looking at each other.
Marc:Words over and over again.
Guest:You got a mustache.
Marc:I have a mustache.
Marc:You have a mustache.
Marc:I have a mustache.
Marc:You have a mustache.
Marc:I have a mustache.
Guest:Yeah, you're resigned to your mustache.
Guest:And we're out.
Guest:We just lost everyone.
Guest:No, I got it.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:That's the best Meisner answers I've ever done.
Guest:But you found that helpful.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:That kind of changed.
Guest:I loved everything at Carnegie and learned a great deal.
Guest:But you were in movement.
Marc:But Carnegie's like structured, right?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:You had dance.
Guest:You had voice.
Guest:You had speech.
Guest:You had acting.
Guest:You had everything.
Guest:But we got to get up and act every day.
Guest:You got up and acted.
Guest:You got to play leads and everything.
Guest:No, I never did.
Guest:It's weird.
Marc:How is that possible?
Guest:I know.
Guest:See, this is the phony fraud part of my brain when it comes to acting.
Guest:I was never in a Shakespearean play.
Guest:As soon as people start talking about Shakespeare, I start to sweat and think, I hope nobody asks me anything.
Marc:Yeah, in the same way.
Marc:I'm out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So that makes you feel like a fraud?
Yeah.
Marc:Little bit.
Marc:The Shakespeare thing?
Marc:Little bit.
Marc:And to this day?
Guest:I mean, I love acting so much.
Guest:I love being part of this community.
Guest:And I always, this is probably true for many actors, I always feel a little bit outside of the group.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, who do you consider to be the group?
Marc:Like, who's the head of the group right now?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I imagine that group changes.
Guest:I'm not sure, but they can talk acting forever and directors and writers.
Guest:I get a little bored.
Guest:Wait, I'm talking.
Guest:I have to see if I really believe what I'm saying.
Guest:um i do feel like an outsider when it comes to serious actors oh that's true huh theater new york uh right bill hurt bill who william yes william who i you know i'm correcting you and you know him and i just want to make sure people know who you're talking about
Marc:i call him william i don't know william hurt was for me a source of guilt for a long time i should never use anyone like that but it was like what would bill hurt oh he wouldn't take this part well who cares i get that i can see that so like you know you do body heat with him and at that time he you know he was like altered states altered states huge he was huge because in there was i remember reading i was into him and i remember reading a rolling stone article about him
Marc:the sort of tormented, you know, intense, like the big chill.
Marc:But, you know, the weird thing is, is that, you know, as people get older, their craft or whatever they are, it becomes rooted in a personality.
Marc:And you can start to see their tics and habits that are repeated throughout roles.
Marc:And their range varies.
Marc:But, you know, you start to see the person as just a person.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And it's sort of interesting.
Guest:I don't know if you found that.
Guest:No, that's true.
Guest:You're...
Guest:We have very few character actors who totally disappear of Alec Guinness.
Guest:Or Meryl Streep.
Marc:And she doesn't totally disappear, but she's pretty close.
Marc:Yeah, that's true.
Marc:Yeah, but it seems like most actors are people that, even like Richard Jenkins, who's a great character actor, but he doesn't, he's not.
Marc:I remember you guys talking about that.
Guest:Yeah, he just shows up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you wear a different outfit.
Guest:The make-believe circumstances are different.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:He's very practical about it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, it's a different type.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I imagine the biggest challenge for actors is to realize that they are of this type of actor.
Marc:There are types of actors.
Marc:Their approaches are different.
Marc:And some people are just freaks in terms of what they can or can't do or what they want to challenge themselves with.
Marc:But a lot of people just sort of like, I like to play guys that do things.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:You need those guys.
Guest:I usually suck the material down to my level.
Guest:Pull it down to me.
Yeah.
Marc:But it's interesting, though, because it didn't seem like at the beginning you were necessarily going to be a comedic actor, and now you're like a funny guy.
Guest:Yeah, but I'm the funny guy who makes your really funny material funny.
Guest:I don't fuck up your funny material.
Guest:If your material's not funny, I'm not the guy who's going to make it funny.
Guest:And some people can't.
Marc:Some people can just literally.
Marc:You're also good at playing off really funny guys.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:A straight man.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:I know what to do with Larry David.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I know how to push him into a corner until he explodes and comes out more Larry.
Guest:Do you do that in real life?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Acting with Larry is very much like going out to dinner with him.
Guest:You guys are friends?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And you love him, so you want to make him laugh, and you usually do it by...
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Insulting him somehow.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Well, there are people that, you know, that comes through as affection somehow.
Marc:That, you know, once you can disarm them enough to where they laugh, what they really want to do is cry.
Guest:He's really a generous laughter.
Guest:A lot of people who do stand-up are not necessarily generous laughter.
Marc:Takes them a while.
Marc:I think that I've done stand-up my whole life and I didn't really start laughing again until I felt better about myself.
Marc:So it's really hinging on whether or not that stand-up will either feel some sort of enough self-esteem to be comfortable laughing at others.
Guest:Yes, that's true.
Marc:That's really smart.
Marc:It can either last a lifetime or maybe it gives way eventually.
Marc:And you realize you like to laugh.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The real problem with standups is like you get so jaded and you spend so much time in comedy clubs that you only laugh when someone else is doing badly.
Guest:There is something wonderfully funny, though, when a moment goes wrong.
Guest:Even if you're in that moment, it's not just other people.
Guest:I mean, we used to have hysterics on Cheers when something all week had been killer funny.
Guest:And then you deliver the killer funny and the audience is like, you can hear a pin drop.
Guest:And it's like falling through a trap door.
Guest:And it's so fucking funny that you just fell through a trap door that we would all roll on the ground with hysterics.
Guest:And the audience wouldn't know why?
Guest:No.
Marc:You got cocky.
Marc:Well, it's so funny because I was thinking like Becker, that character Becker that you did for a long time too.
Marc:I mean, those are the two shows you did the longest, right?
Marc:Cheers and Becker.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's sort of a Larry David character in a way.
Marc:The kind of cranky guy that's annoyed at everything.
Guest:Dave Hackle wrote that and it was such a...
Guest:It was so good after having such a memorable Sam Malone-like character to play.
Guest:It was great to have something that was equally strong in a different direction.
Marc:And how do you approach roles?
Marc:As an actor, do you make decisions?
Marc:What are the decisions you make when you're not playing yourself?
Guest:Which is never because basically I play Sam Malone became a doctor.
Guest:Sam Malone works for the police.
Guest:So you started Sam Malone.
Marc:You started Sam Malone?
Marc:You don't started Ted Danson?
Marc:No, it's all Sam Malone.
Guest:How would Sam handle this?
Guest:How shall I do my hair?
Guest:How would Sam do my hair?
Marc:But with Larry, you're an elevated part of yourself.
Marc:But it's not really you, right?
Marc:No.
Marc:You know what I do?
Marc:It's not really Larry either.
Marc:I met him once.
Marc:I'd like to interview him, but he doesn't seem to want to.
Marc:But I met him once.
Marc:He's a lot nicer than he is.
Marc:He's got a huge heart to go.
Guest:Mary once told him and almost brought tears to his eyes.
Guest:She said, if I were ever really in trouble, you'd be one of the first people I'd ever call.
Guest:He has a huge, generous heart of gold.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's nice.
Guest:Very sweet.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He hides it well.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:He is Looney Tunes when it comes to social niceties.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He does things like, let's all go out to dinner.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Great.
Guest:And we all show up at the time at 830.
Guest:And he is sitting at the table halfway through his entree because he decided he'd rather do something else later that evening.
Guest:And as you sit down, he's saying goodbye.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Literally, without any problem.
Guest:You won't accept invitations to people's homes for dinner anymore because it's too hard to get out of.
Guest:In a restaurant, you can do what he does.
Guest:So there's part of you that just wants to go grab him by the lapels and throw him on the ground.
Marc:What the fuck's the matter with you?
Guest:So you do it with humor, but that's your job.
Guest:So you just have to put up with that.
Guest:Or make fun or laugh or poke holes.
Marc:But you're talking about it like this is a person that he's got this weird problem where we're all his friend and we just didn't have to adapt to it.
Marc:Part of you admire it, too.
Guest:Yeah, right, right.
Guest:Because you kind of wish you had come early and had your entree.
Marc:But what do you all just sit there without him then?
Marc:He just goes away and that's just the way he is.
Marc:That's just the way he is.
Guest:Let me go back and answer your question.
Marc:Approaching roles?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:If you have to learn how to do something, shoot a bow and arrow and you're not good at it, so you practice.
Guest:You practice the stuff you don't know how to do.
Guest:I should say, not you, but I practice the stuff I don't know how to do.
Guest:But then to me, if it's really good writing,
Guest:I just keep trying on the words over and over and over and over and over and over again, and the words start to play you.
Guest:Interesting.
Guest:If they're good words, they start to play you kind of like an instrument.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Just go with where they're leading you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And good writing does that.
Guest:Good writing is just delicious.
Guest:You just hop on board.
Marc:I think that's true, yeah.
Marc:Right, and you just kind of work it until it locks in because all the emotions should be in that, right?
Marc:They should be there somewhere.
Guest:Yes.
Yes.
Marc:Yeah, and good writing they are.
Marc:And I would imagine in Bored to Death or playing comedy that isn't three-camera comedy but has a little breath to it, you play it straight, right?
Marc:You're not milking anything.
Marc:You realize the idiosyncrasies of the character.
Marc:The character in Bored to Death is a very odd, wealthy man.
Guest:right yes and in the dynamic between you and schwarzman was great but you know you know you like that character was like what's wrong with this guy a little bit but but you know it was very earnest and it was perfect for me that's the other thing if you're lucky you find roles that are slightly you know that are perfect for what you're going through in life that was me at 60 going i still want to be relevant don't leave me behind what are you guys doing i want to be with you you guys are young i want to be you know
Guest:yeah i want to yeah so it worked out yeah but when you do something like i mean you did like 80 some odd episodes of csi oh that was hard the people were incredibly sweet yeah i really i loved going to work yeah but it was so hard because it was like it was like doing a soap opera
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which you have done before.
Guest:Which I had done.
Guest:And it was the scariest, ever scariest acting I've ever been involved with.
Marc:Was that like your first job?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Why was it scary?
Guest:Because there's no humor.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, there's no, you know, if you were to...
Guest:hiccup or something, you would bring the tape to a grinding halt and you were repeating yourself, you know, the scenes where you remember what I said to you just like two seconds ago and how I reacted that way, you know, so there's nothing natural about it.
Guest:You're imparting information that you want the audience to remember.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that's the same thing on CSI.
Guest:You are constantly wanting them to follow each little scientific detail and
Guest:So if you tell a joke or try to be funny at the end of a scene, that gets cut because you don't want people laughing at the end of the scene.
Guest:You want them remembering stuff.
Marc:So they can do the weird and suspenseful music.
Marc:So it was really hard, really hard.
Marc:But why did you do it?
Guest:Partly to see if I could.
Guest:Partly because I had a home in Martha's Vineyard that we were gonna have to sell.
Guest:And you didn't do it?
Guest:And this sounds disrespectful.
Guest:I made great friends, loved the writers, and I'm so grateful for what CSI gave me.
Guest:Right, good job.
Guest:But it was one of the hardest.
Guest:It's also true.
Guest:It's one of the hardest jobs I've ever done for me, Ted.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it also paid me really well.
Guest:So that sounds cynical or bad, but it was great.
Guest:They were very confident.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I mean, you're in a position where, you know, like a job that is challenging and it may not seem like the thing you want to do is something that is available to you.
Marc:And as an actor, you can do it.
Marc:It's an acting job.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it taught me a lot.
Guest:You know, it taught me, you know, I kind of bob and weave and I'm usually my characters are me or tilted a little bit to one side or the other.
Guest:I'm never just John Wayne straight up and down.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You had to be straight up and down doing CSI.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, you were supposed to be a leading man.
Guest:You weren't supposed to be bobbing and weaving.
Guest:You were supposed to be standing and delivering.
Guest:Holding your ground.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which is terrifying to me.
Guest:So I learned a lot by doing it.
Marc:Holding your ground.
Marc:It's hard, huh?
Marc:Oh, I understand that.
Marc:But you, like, you came up doing all these, like, little, like, you were on all the weird little TV shows.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Laverne and Shirley, Benson, Magnum.
Marc:Like, you were doing bit parts.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you, after, what was it, after New York, you just came out here and dug in?
Marc:Yep.
Guest:I would, but even, I would in New York, I'd be doing something, a play.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I would go be an extra in a commercial.
Guest:I really didn't care.
Guest:I didn't care if I was acting in class or acting being paid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All I wanted to do was act.
Guest:And truthfully, that's still my truth.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:You love it.
Guest:Maybe not the pay part.
Guest:I like being paid a little bit.
Marc:right no pays great you know but like it's interesting because you know i started doing it a little more you know coming this new show glow on on netflix and i'd done a show that was centered around me for ifc but like i kept trying to think as a comic and as a guy who does what i'm doing now and it's just a kind of a guy who just engages spontaneously in things
Marc:The job of acting, the one thing that I locked into was that, you know, when you do a lot of sitting around and you do a lot of coverage, and you know that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So, like, if you like acting a lot, you have to sort of be excited every time when it's your turn.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right?
Marc:You can't just be like, oh, fuck.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So like you really, and I started to realize that I'm like, instead of like complaining to myself that I'm here for 13 hours and I'm shooting maybe three minutes of this, that like when I do get my shot, I should enjoy it because that's the fun of acting.
Marc:But that's TV too, and live TV's different than not live TV.
Marc:But you don't do a lot of stage shit, do you?
Marc:None.
Marc:No, I'm too chicken.
Guest:At this point, I'm too chicken.
Guest:I'd do it if Mary and I could find something to do together.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it wasn't about needing to fill the coffers kind of thing, but just go off and do something together.
Guest:I would do it.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Yeah, I had one of those stick your finger in a light socket zap on stage maybe 10 years ago.
Guest:Really?
Guest:You know the Atlantic Theater?
Marc:I do, in New York.
Marc:Yeah, Mamet's place.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Neil Pepe.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Mary McCann.
Guest:Anyway, they were doing maybe a month of celebrating all their 25 years of being in business.
Guest:And so they had 25 playwrights write anything they wanted.
Guest:It could be 20 minutes long.
Guest:It could be a musical.
Guest:It could be one act.
Guest:Whatever you want, write it.
Guest:um and they asked me if i'd be part of it so i did and i got a 20 minute monologue right that was brilliant yeah it wasn't a lot of rehearsing you just kind of throw it together and then you do it for a week right and i saw i came in to rehearse for a day with neil pepe the artistic director and i saw someone performing that night their bit
Guest:And he went up because there's no real rehearsal.
Guest:He went up for a line.
Guest:So he called for a line.
Guest:And instead of it being whispered from the stage, it was in the back of the house from the booth over a microphone.
Guest:So there was no hiding.
Guest:And I thought, oh, fuck.
Guest:Okay, I better at least be clever if I have to ask for a line.
Guest:So this was a 20-minute speedy, fast performance.
Guest:verbal monologue yeah about a guy just every day he he's trying to remember how his day started yeah and by the end he he's troubled and there's he's trying to work something out and by the end of the day he's starting to remember in his recounting his day that he actually that his basement in his home is hell the literal hell yeah
Guest:He walks downstairs into hell every night.
Marc:This is the conceit of the monologue.
Guest:Yes, right.
Guest:So anyway, I psyched myself out opening night.
Guest:I walked out and literally probably 9.5 seconds in to this 20-minute monologue, I just...
Guest:Freeze.
Guest:And it is like sticking your finger in a light socket.
Guest:My entire body, you know, with adrenaline.
Guest:Room full of people?
Guest:Yes, room full of people.
Guest:My daughter's there.
Guest:Oh, my poor daughter.
Guest:She's watching this.
Guest:Should I cry?
Guest:Fuck, I can't believe this.
Guest:I'm so mad.
Guest:Don't be mad.
Guest:You're going to have to think of something.
Guest:In a split second, your mind just freaks.
Guest:I could get up and leave.
Guest:No, I can't.
Guest:So, I say to Darcy, the- In the booth?
Guest:In the booth, stage manager.
Guest:Darcy, what happens next?
Guest:That's your opening.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, Darcy, he's just sat down with her coffee going, you know, hasn't even opened the book probably.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Oh, jeez.
Guest:Thumbs through.
Guest:Tries to find my line.
Guest:But she gives me the line that I had just finished saying before I forgot the next line.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So like an idiot, I took that and said the one line and then went, actually, Darcy, it's the next line I need.
Yeah.
Guest:Oh, I had so much adrenaline running through my body that my poor daughter afterwards, and it was actually brilliant because I was so panicked, I was actually as panicked as my character.
Guest:Yeah, afterwards.
Guest:Yeah, afterwards, after the 9.7.
Guest:But you got through it?
Guest:I got through it, and it was all fine and good, and I did it for the week.
Guest:but my daughter literally had to walk me around a block in New York drinking one of those huge liter bottles of water because I had so much toxic adrenaline in my body.
Guest:Toxic adrenaline.
Guest:I was shaking.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:So when you say you're going to do another play, part of my body kind of... When was that?
Guest:10 years ago.
Guest:That happened 10 years ago.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:let me just do a quick Neil Pepe sweet Neil Pepe the artistic director saw it happen and he said after the show why don't you come with me and we'll go to the stage a half hour early and we'll work together because you had to do this how many times five nights in a row
Guest:and he sat me down and I did the monologue and literally every time I got to that 9.5 second mark, that word, my body just jolted to a stop.
Guest:And he just got me to say it over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Marc:Just because of that experience of the first, the trauma.
Guest:The trauma.
Guest:It was like post-traumatic stress.
Guest:It was like...
Guest:So that that night when I did it, my body went at that same place.
Guest:But he had taught my mouth to keep flapping.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:That I got past it.
Guest:Interesting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Saved my life.
Guest:Anyway.
Guest:But did you ever do extensive stage work?
Guest:In New York, I did a year and a half of Tom Stoppard, two one acts, after Magritte and The Real Inspector Hound.
Guest:They were some of the funniest parts that year.
Guest:But that was it.
Guest:Then I did a Broadway one-night stand that opened and closed in one night.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:And I did some theater in the park, but that was it.
Marc:Did you like doing that?
Guest:Yeah, no, I mean, and everything I...
Guest:Everything I did at Carnegie Mellon was theater training.
Guest:It was meant to send you out in the repertory company world.
Guest:And we just didn't.
Guest:We all went to New York.
Marc:It might be fun to do something with Mary, huh?
Guest:It would.
Guest:It would.
Guest:It is fun.
Guest:But it is so all-consuming.
Guest:If you do a play at night, you wake up preparing for that hour.
Guest:Here we go.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I would hate to be with my wife, who I love hanging around and doing nothing with.
Guest:Oh, and turn it into...
Guest:And turn it into a neurotic day.
Guest:But if we did it together, it'd be all right.
Guest:You hope.
Guest:Maybe don't push it.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Let it happen.
Marc:Don't steer yourself in the wrong direction.
Marc:Things are going all right.
Marc:So, you know, how many times have you been married?
Marc:Three.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:This is a good one though, right?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Can you get along with the other ones?
Marc:Or you don't need to?
Guest:First marriage was, if it had been emotionally mature and honest, it would have been, hey, I'm scared.
Guest:We met at Carnegie.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Got married there.
Guest:It was like, hey, I'm scared to go to New York by myself.
Guest:Are you?
Guest:Oh, great.
Guest:Let's get an apartment together.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That would have been the truth.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Somehow we got married.
Guest:So remain good friends.
Marc:Oh, that's good.
Guest:Don't see each other, but left.
Marc:No kids with that one.
Guest:Actually, no.
Guest:And the separation moment was brilliant because she was learning how to sign the death.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:For a part.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:doing at Circle in the Rep.
Guest:And so she would work on it and then she would teach me and we would be doing stuff for a couple months.
Guest:Signing?
Guest:Yeah, signing.
Guest:And finally one night I said, let's have a real conversation because I'll probably follow more closely if it's real.
Guest:And then 45 minutes later we were separated.
Guest:you did it in sign yeah because you didn't have time you didn't have words to dick around with you know that was surplus of words so you just got right to it and that's what she chose to do yeah we we both did and it was very sweet because it was like the question was where do you want to be five years from now and both of us came up with somewhere else knowing you were okay
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It was very sweet.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That would have liked to have seen that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That seems like an interesting device for a play.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:People learning sign and then only being able to have that really communicate emotionally because you can't cheat.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You can't manipulate.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Or squirm out of it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Weasel.
Yeah.
Marc:Your hands don't lie.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:That's something.
Marc:And the second wife, you had a couple of kids.
Guest:A couple of kids, yes, 15 years, and then met Mary.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's right.
Marc:You had that thing with Whoopi, too.
Guest:I remember that.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:That's accurate?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's so many.
Guest:Everyone's still...
Guest:up and around and walking, so it's very hard to talk about.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But it was a big moment in my life.
Guest:Are you guys friends-ish?
Marc:No, not really.
Guest:I mean, nothing unfriendly went on, but no, no.
Guest:Unless your previous, the person you're dating or with or whatever embraces your new person you're with and you all become these best buddies-
Guest:you're not gonna stand up.
Marc:Right, well, yeah, as long as it's not hostile.
Marc:No, it's not.
Marc:Because I ask people a lot of times, I assume everyone, but I look at my own life, and I'm like, how many friends do you really have?
Marc:I mean, you know a lot of people, and you may have had relationships with a lot of people, but how many, do you really have time, how many are you talking to?
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Three, four, two.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And then occasionally you're like, holy shit, that guy called?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I haven't talked to him in six years, I love that guy.
Guest:You have a lot of people you go, hey.
Guest:When I see you next time in line on a red carpet, I'll give you a hey, and I'll give you also a hug.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:Which will buy some time for me to go, Mark.
Guest:Mark.
Guest:Dude.
Guest:We had such a good time in the garage.
Marc:How's everything going?
Marc:Good for you.
Marc:So, all right.
Marc:So, you know, NBC was kind of funny about The Good Place, and my girlfriend loves the show.
Marc:And they were funny in that they were, I felt like they were,
Marc:Oh, I wanted to ask you something else, though, before I got to that.
Marc:You worked with Jack Lemmon.
Marc:I did, yes, yeah.
Marc:In a movie called, it was funny, there was a period, you were gonna be the new guy in the movies, in the 80s, funny movies.
Marc:Yeah, I finished that.
Guest:Yeah, I handled that.
Marc:Like I was looking through your stuff and I'm like, a fine mess with Howie Mandel.
Marc:That was both of you.
Marc:That was the big shot, right?
Guest:Yeah, that did not go well.
Guest:I was thrilled that I got to work with Blake Edwards, who was like a legend.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But no, he was kind of depressed.
Marc:Blake was?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, for real.
Guest:I think he had Epstein Barr or something like that.
Guest:So he would come out of his trailer.
Marc:That was popular for a while.
Guest:Yeah, it was.
Guest:He came out of his trailer and he'd say,
Guest:let me see what you're gonna do.
Guest:And this was rehearsal.
Guest:And so you'd- For bit, comedy bits.
Guest:Yeah, no, for the movie.
Guest:And so we would run the scene and he'd go, is that how you wanna do it?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And he'd go, okay, light it and walk off.
Guest:He'd come back to the set once it was lit and he'd say, action.
Guest:And you would do the scene, he'd say, cut.
Guest:And he'd walk back to his trailer.
Guest:And Blake Edwards, his kind of style was that roving master where people would be talking in the foreground and something funny would be happening in the background.
Guest:So he rarely did coverage where you would come in and do a single and a two-shot and things like that.
Guest:So literally every time he said action...
Guest:You were in the movie.
Guest:There was no retakes.
Guest:There was no take two.
Guest:Literally, everything you did, that one shot you had at it was in the movie, which is very exciting.
Guest:But if the script isn't quite working or the story's not quite working, then the movie has these huge... Yeah, I don't remember it, the movie.
Guest:No, you wouldn't have.
Guest:It came and went.
Marc:But Jack Lemmon, it seems to me that, though I did not remember seeing Dad either,
Marc:And this is not an indictment or judgment, but it seems like people who worked with Jack Lemmon would have a tremendous experience as an actor.
Marc:Did you?
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:And it was Jack Lemmon.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What was it like watching someone like that?
Marc:What do you glean from that?
Guest:Well, first off, I guess I would have to go with the delight of performing.
Guest:He was a ham bone.
Guest:Sometimes...
Guest:And he would had no shame.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he would chew up scenery and, and you would almost not say your next line.
Guest:You were so dumbfounded that really, are you going to do that?
Guest:Because he had that much delight and freedom to allow himself to do that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, when he brought it back a smidge or something, he would he would knock your socks off.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was like, well, he had that way of kind of like almost a bumbling through like you just keep going ish.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:No, I'm thrilled I got to work with Blake Edwards.
Guest:I'm thrilled I got to work with Jack Lemmon.
Guest:I mean, part of the fun part about whatever success you've had in life is who you get to meet, talk to, hang around, work with.
Guest:And Jack Lemmon was certainly one of those.
Marc:Yeah, it is sort of interesting just because me, I'm new to acting in any regularity, but when I'm with Alison Brie and I'm doing scenes with her, there's part of me that's sort of like, oh, she's so good.
Marc:I know.
Guest:You're in a scene and you're like, oh, she's really doing it.
Guest:She's really doing it.
Guest:Why am I thinking this?
Guest:I must not be doing it.
Guest:Does that happen to you?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:It's hard.
Guest:It's hard.
Guest:One of the things when you're working with a legend or someone you admire hugely, you got to get over it pretty quickly.
Marc:Yeah, I'm not intimidated by it, but I'm always sort of like there are moments where I'm listening.
Marc:It's usually you're into coverage, right?
Marc:So you've done the scene a couple of times.
Marc:And then you just have that moment where you're just an audience because you're doing their coverage.
Marc:And you're off camera.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And you're like, this is amazing.
Marc:and I don't always know when I'm on or off camera which is probably good I should probably know when I'm on but I don't always know like who's where are we you know it's behind me right that's good yeah yeah but okay so NBC like my girlfriend watches The Good Place and loves it and fortunately they were concerned that there would be spoilers and my producer said well I don't think Mark's watched it
Marc:So you get to tell me what this show is, and we don't risk spoilers.
Marc:But even when my girlfriend is explaining to me that, you know, well, it's not really heaven, but he's sort of a demon.
Marc:What was the pitch for you to take the job, and what is it?
Guest:Great.
Guest:Okay, so this is Mike Schur.
Guest:Yeah, Parks and Rec.
Guest:Parks and Rec.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And he also did many seasons of The Office.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:So this was the pitch.
Yeah.
Guest:Do we wait for airplanes like we do when we're acting?
Marc:No, not really.
Marc:No, okay.
Marc:Hold for plane.
Guest:Or at least let's get a shot of it so they can see it.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Okay, we're back.
Guest:And it's lunch.
Guest:No.
Guest:All right.
Guest:So, okay.
Guest:It's got to get my brain around this because it's...
Marc:Seems complicated.
Guest:It's complicated.
Guest:People like it, though.
Guest:Yeah, it's wonderful.
Guest:Okay, so it takes place in the afterlife.
Guest:I play the architect of this neighborhood because the afterlife is made up of hundreds of thousands of neighborhoods.
Guest:and I have been an apprentice for 200 years, and this is my one shot at making this village, this neighborhood perfect for the, I can't remember how many it is now, 290 people that come up to the community.
Guest:Each one is filled, and you have your soulmate there.
Guest:It's perfect.
Guest:Everything is just the perfect dream.
Guest:And Eleanor, the character Eleanor shows up,
Guest:Kristen Bell.
Guest:And it turns out that she is actually a clerical heir.
Guest:So she's actually kind of a mediocre to bad person.
Guest:And through a clerical heir, she comes up to my neighborhood.
Guest:But because that's like a grain of sand in this place,
Guest:perfect Swiss watch, everything starts to go nuts and go crazy.
Guest:I mean, you know, trees fly.
Guest:Everything gets nuts.
Guest:And so I'm overwhelmed and over my head because I wanted to create the perfect Swiss
Guest:Yeah, it's out of your hands, out of your control.
Guest:I'm a middle manager, so I'm trying to solve it.
Guest:And everybody is starting to suffer.
Guest:All of my, you know, the four main characters are all unhappy and getting challenged and neurotic and everything's going wrong.
Guest:And it's my fault.
Guest:Then you discover halfway through the season, she confesses she's not supposed to be there.
Guest:So then I realize it's not me, and so we're going to have to send her to the bad place.
Guest:It goes like that.
Guest:By the end of the first season, what you discover is...
Guest:Eleanor, Kristen Bell figures out that this is the bad place and that I'm actually a demon and it's true.
Guest:And I go to my superiors and I say, let's not do it the old fashioned throwing them in lava pits.
Guest:I can get four people to torture themselves, torture each other psychologically and it'll be so much funnier and it'll be like a living hell for them.
Guest:And everyone says no in the bad place
Guest:So I'm on warning.
Guest:If I fuck this up, my character's really into real trouble.
Guest:And so then the second season was kind of you got to see behind the curtain and you saw that everyone else except these four humans, all 280 other people, were part of my team.
Guest:They were all people I auditioned from hell to play.
Marc:For four people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Marc:But hell's filled with people.
Marc:Yeah, you got a lot of people down there.
Guest:And then it becomes, he gets into so much trouble in the second season that he decides to join the humans.
Guest:If you can't beat him, join him.
Guest:But it's what's wonderful about this show, which is why I think people enjoy it.
Guest:It's about ethics.
Guest:It's really, truly about what it means to be a good person.
Guest:There are consequences.
Guest:And at the end of your life, there's a point tally to everything you do, every action you take.
Guest:Whether you buy a sandwich, read a book, whatever, whatever you're doing has a point value.
Guest:positive or negative, depending on what it puts out into the world.
Guest:If one of your actions causes something horrible.
Marc:Is this the show or are you telling me this in real life?
Marc:This is the show.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:This is the show.
Marc:The point value thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because now I thought you were just imparting spiritual wisdom on me.
Guest:But it's pretty good.
Guest:It's pretty good.
Guest:It really feels that there are consequences.
Marc:Of course there are consequences, either in you or outside you.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:So at the end of your life, those point totals are added up, and boom, you're either in or you're out.
Guest:And it's a very high level in all of that.
Guest:So you're imparting that, but it's wrapped in this kind of nine-year-old's fart humor at the same time.
Guest:So you're making people laugh.
Guest:And it has visual magic because you're in the afterlife.
Guest:You can do anything.
Guest:You can do anything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so it's very in the back door kind of thing.
Guest:You're really lecturing people about what it is to be good.
Guest:But you're doing it in such a funny way that it appeals to young people too, not just adults.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:It seems very like a very – those kind of things are always challenging to me.
Marc:But to make it human enough –
Marc:for it to be engaging on that level.
Marc:That's the trick of those things because the conceit of it seems very kind of ambitious.
Guest:It is totally ambitious because literally everything, every episode ends with you going, oh, I get it.
Guest:And then, oh, it gets flipped on its ears.
Guest:So literally you're like glued to, wait, I thought I had this figured out.
Guest:And I think that's what audiences also really appreciate is never getting ahead of the material.
Guest:You're never ahead of this.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:No, that's good.
Marc:The whole kind of like, I don't know what the hell is going to happen.
Marc:That seems to be a new thing in terms of TV.
Marc:That TV is made now specifically on any level.
Marc:You cannot guess what's going to happen.
Marc:Cable did that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Cable and being able.
Guest:We only do 13 episodes, which is very cool because you can create that kind of dynamic with 13.
Guest:22, you're screwed.
Marc:Like the Sopranos I think was one of the big ones.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:What's going to, you know.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:But it was cable and the ability to spend.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Money and time.
Marc:10, 20 hours telling one story.
Marc:As opposed to just churning them out.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like what you want is like you want most of it.
Marc:The old days it was like most of it has to be predictable.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And I'm tired and I want to come home and I want to know where to laugh because I laugh there every day.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean some shows they just do basically the same thing over and over again.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now you as a person, you a spiritual person?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:I mean, but then aren't we all?
Marc:I guess.
Marc:But I mean, when you talk about the afterlife and we talk about the bad place, are these in your brain?
Marc:Do you believe these things?
Guest:I believe that there are consequences.
Guest:I believe there are ripple effects.
Marc:I believe that... Do you believe in going to a good or bad place after we're done?
Guest:That becomes like a matter of...
Guest:I don't even think I would go there in my... I don't go there in my head.
Guest:So if I had to be named... If I had to take an educated guess, I would guess that this is... No.
Guest:No.
Guest:Good for you.
Guest:But I don't think the next step is anything that would resemble anything that we could even imagine from here.
Guest:So we're not going to sit around on the right hand of God and...
Marc:Right, whatever it is, we might not know it.
Guest:But I just feel like there is, whether it's your essence, your soul, your something, is on a journey, and this is your chance to be physical and to be human and to figure stuff out and to learn by suffering or bumping into stuff or gravity or whatever.
Guest:That would be my kind of Buddhist Zen thing
Guest:guess judeo-christian kind of guess yeah yes yeah but it doesn't matter yeah you know it doesn't no i think you lead your life as if it does yeah it's kind of like acting yeah you know you you you this is imaginary shit you're doing when you act yeah but you do it as if your life depended on it right if you're doing it well yeah right you truly do believe your imaginary you know
Guest:Circumstances.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's kind of life to me, I think.
Guest:Do you do that acting?
Marc:Do you believe your imaginary circumstances usually?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Or you let it play on you as if it did.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Sometimes it's like that's a big jump.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, play on you.
Marc:But when the cameras, when they say cut, you're not like, how do I get back?
Guest:No, no, I agree.
Guest:And your job is not to be believing your circumstances.
Guest:Your job is to be present.
Marc:Present and hopefully other people will believe.
Guest:Yes, because there's a story that you're telling.
Guest:That's right, that's right.
Guest:As long as the story is compelling and you're not...
Marc:Yeah, and they're not looking at you going like, he's not in it.
Guest:Yeah, he's not in it.
Guest:Yeah, that's one of the, I think, the neatest parts about acting.
Guest:You can rehearse, you can have great ideas, you can pump iron, you can learn how to shoot a bow and arrow.
Guest:But if you are not literally in that moment where you don't know what's going to happen next and you are totally present as opposed to demonstrating what a good idea I had last night when I thought about this part or watch this or this is what audiences love to see.
Guest:If you're not literally surrendered to I don't know what the fuck's happening next.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Then it sucks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now, you know, we're all probably, if you're really good at it, you're probably 50-50.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:It's so sad, though.
Guest:He's spending all that time learning how to shoot the bow and arrow.
Guest:Let me show you how good I am.
Guest:The movie wasn't good because he was good at shooting the bow and arrow, but that means he didn't feel like he really was the guy doing that.
Guest:But that's fun.
Guest:That's life.
Guest:It is.
Marc:You do your best you can.
Marc:I guess that's true.
Marc:You make mistakes.
Marc:That was fun, right?
Guest:Yeah, it was.
Marc:Say hi to Larry David for me.
Marc:I will.
Guest:Sometime have me back and let me talk about oceans and Oceania.
Guest:We can talk about it for a minute.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:We're in trouble.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:Is that what you want to tell me?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:I mean, seriously.
Guest:That wasn't a leading thing.
Guest:I would love to come back and talk to you about what I do when I'm not doing this.
Marc:What is it?
Marc:We have time.
Marc:I'm not rushing you out.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I have to go.
Guest:I've had it.
Guest:Here's the tease.
Yeah.
Guest:During the Cheers years, I moved into a neighborhood.
Guest:It was fighting Occidental oil, Occidental patrolling, whatever it's called, from drilling 60 oil wells in Santa Monica Bay.
Guest:And I became friends and co-worker with the environmental lawyer who was heading that.
Guest:We succeeded in defeating them, which was astounding.
Guest:And we enjoyed the conversation that we had with each other and about oceans.
Guest:So kind of naively, we went, let's start an organization.
Guest:And we started American Oceans Campaign.
Guest:And it was about...
Guest:offshore oil, coastal pollution.
Guest:We had lobbyists in Washington working with us and really good staff of about 12 people.
Guest:Then about, that lasted for 15 years.
Guest:And I was always the actor who said, thank you for watching, cheers.
Guest:Can I have a moment of your time to talk?
Guest:You should hear what this marine biologist is telling.
Guest:So I'm not an expert, but I was a spokesperson and have kind of learned a lot by hanging around these amazing people.
Guest:Then it merged into a new organization that was founded called Oceana that was truly international.
Guest:We never quite got past celebrity boutique environmental organization.
Guest:Oceana is now the largest in the world.
Guest:Its focus is mostly on overfishing because if you do it right,
Guest:and harvest fish correctly, and we know what to do to do that.
Guest:You could provide a billion fish meals a day.
Guest:If you could quantify fish that way, you could provide a billion fish meals a day forever.
Guest:That would take stress off of land animals, off of water, off of cutting down forests because you don't have to cut something down to grow something, to feed something.
Guest:You get protein in the most clean way you can possibly produce.
Guest:get it yeah so that's what we do and we do it all over the world and we're having great results uh we're bumping into kind of a bad time here in this country but it's so much fun for me to use that other side of my brain when i'm you know when i'm not acting i'm doing this oh yeah be proactive and do something for the world is great
Marc:It's a great conversation.
Marc:I've never, you know, you put, we're bumping into a bad time here in this country.
Marc:I like how you just kind of pressed right over that, you know, and moved on to like, but we are having successes.
Guest:Yeah, no, all over the world.
Guest:And there is the rest of the world part of this bumpy time we're having here.
Marc:Yeah, we're just hoping this bumpy time doesn't infect all of it.
Marc:yeah yeah but uh but well that's great i'm glad it's it's having success and i eat fish almost exclusively now me too i don't eat the other stuff anymore eat small eat wild local and small that's the rule of thumb i eat wild i don't always know if it's local i try to you know i got i got a fish guy i go to yeah yeah he probably is local
Marc:Yeah, I think so.
Marc:Some of it seems to be wild, but from farther away.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But what kind of fish do you usually eat?
Guest:Sea bass.
Guest:I mean, I'm talking on the East Coast.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, East Coast.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Wild salmon is just unbelievable.
Marc:Seasonal, though.
Guest:It is.
Guest:You know how you can tell in a restaurant when you, you know, it's always embarrassing to say it's farmed salmon or wild salmon.
Marc:Farmed salmon, yeah.
Marc:Very orange.
Guest:Yes, but you also, you look at the side view of it and if you see white fatty lines running through it,
Guest:That's farmed.
Guest:Because wild is out there muscling its way.
Guest:Leaner.
Guest:Yeah, leaner.
Guest:Anyway, sorry, this was just a- No, it's great.
Guest:I guess I wanted you to know, Mark, you, Mark, to know that this is what I do when I'm not- Acting.
Guest:And we don't have to talk about it, but when I'm not acting.
Marc:No.
Guest:But I love talking to you.
Marc:Yeah, no, it was a great time.
Marc:I enjoy talking to you, too, and I like fish, and I like the world, and I like knowing you're doing that.
Marc:The thing about me that I'm concerned about is that I need to be involved more.
Marc:Because a lot of times you think, well, I say things, I talk, I'm helping.
Marc:Are you helping, though?
Marc:It sounds like you're helping.
Marc:You are.
Marc:But you're helping.
Marc:I mean, you're actively engaged in it, and you enjoy it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:No, but yeah, but so are you.
Marc:I feel like I should do more.
Marc:I want to do more.
Guest:I want to do more.
Guest:Then check out Oceana.org.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Thanks, man.
Marc:Ted Danson, go watch Get Caught Up with The Good Place on Netflix.
Marc:Yeah, I'm going on tour.
Marc:Well, there's five dates, all right?
Marc:A few parts of the world tour.
Marc:Check out the dates and cities on the tour page at wtfpod.com.
Marc:It all kicks off in London, England at the Royal Festival Hall on April 16th on through Stockholm, Oswald, Amsterdam, and Dublin.
Marc:Dublin, my future home.
Marc:Dublin, if New Mexico, but if the country falls the wrong way and I have to run from my neighbors, I'd like it to think it would be to Ireland.
Marc:I can play some guitar, I think.
Marc:These strings are dead, though, man.
Marc:They're dead.
Guest:Boomer lives!
Marc:Boomer lives!
Marc:Big Head, too.
Marc:I saw Big Head out there.
Marc:He's still hanging around, but I know other people are feeding him, so don't freak out, all right?