Episode 895 - Sharon Stone
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucksters?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast, WTF.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:It's still called WTF.
Marc:I am still called Mark Maron.
Marc:It's interesting, this many years into this racket,
Marc:that we haven't changed much.
Marc:I'm looking around the garage in its last days, and I have complete faith that...
Marc:that the new space will be equally cluttered.
Marc:But there's going to probably be a kitchen in there, which will be nice.
Marc:Be nice.
Marc:Maybe guests can sort of spend a week there.
Marc:Maybe I can offer a sort of interview slash bed and breakfast situation where I have a guest and then I say, so enjoy your stay here.
Marc:And I'd say, that'd be funny, wouldn't it?
Marc:Would it not to be funny to have a guest for a week and have a week of conversations with somebody who actually stays in the garage?
Marc:Huh.
Marc:Wonder who would volunteer for that business.
Marc:Sharon Stone is on the show today.
Marc:Did I mention that?
Marc:Sharon Stone.
Marc:And I was nervous.
Marc:I was nervous in the I'm a little intimidated kind of way.
Marc:I'm always a little nervous, but I was like, is she going to destroy me somehow?
Marc:I don't know why I thought that.
Marc:And it wasn't a weird paranoia.
Marc:It was just sort of, am I going to be able to keep it together?
Marc:She's very intense.
Marc:I've only seen her in movies.
Marc:And I saw her once backstage at Conan for like two minutes.
Marc:And I think she walked right through me.
Marc:Just walked right, not past me, through me.
Marc:That was the feeling I got.
Marc:Again, I am a nervous, slightly panicked, occasionally terrified person whose sense of self can be obliterated in seconds, either by my own brain or what I think someone else is thinking.
Marc:But I can reconstitute pretty quickly, too.
Marc:I have a pretty good reconstitution rate.
Marc:I did five sets last night.
Marc:I did five sets within one structure last night at the Comedy Store.
Marc:I went out.
Marc:Sarah's in New York right now.
Marc:She's doing a work on site for the big Armory art show in New York.
Marc:It's a big art show with a lot of exhibitions.
Marc:It's one of the big ones.
Marc:And Sarah the painter, Sarah Kane the painter, is doing a work on site as we speak.
Marc:She's up to her neck in paint.
Marc:She has people helping her, painters working with her to create a massive piece on site at Pier 94 at the entry.
Marc:So if you go to the Armory show in New York, which is March 8th through the 11th, that's what you'll see when you walk in at Pier 94.
Marc:Sarah Kane's work on site.
Marc:Give me a lot of paint on the wall, canvases involved, other things.
Marc:That's where she really, she nails these things.
Marc:She just gets in it.
Marc:Improvisational.
Marc:That's where we have something in common.
Marc:Her and I, we like to work improvisationally.
Marc:See what happens.
Marc:It's exciting.
Marc:So that's what I was saying, though.
Marc:She's doing that, so I'm free to stay out late and work all night at the comedy.
Marc:Five shows last night.
Marc:And I went to see Buffalo Tom for about half of their set.
Marc:Janowitz was here, and he invited me down.
Marc:So I went down there, said hi to the fellas at Teragram Ballroom, and then I watched about half of the set.
Marc:And it was good.
Marc:It was good.
Marc:It was good to see them.
Marc:It was good to see the...
Marc:us old guys out doing the work did i mention that i played some i played out in public i didn't promote it because um
Marc:Because I didn't want to, folks.
Marc:So, yeah, last week, I'm coming around.
Marc:I'm coming around.
Marc:Last week, Jimmy Vivino from the Conan O'Brien Show texted me and said, do I want to come in and sit in at Al's Bar and Grill, I think it's called, in Burbank, and do a couple of tunes with him and the fellas?
Marc:Not the Conan band, but just a combo.
Marc:It's Jimmy...
Marc:a drummer, a bass player, and a guy on the keys.
Marc:And I was like, he said, I think you're ready.
Marc:I think Jimmy Vivino, the guy who's been teaching me licks and letting me play his guitars in the dressing room for decades, he said, I think you're ready.
Marc:And I'm like, all right, man.
Marc:All right.
Marc:What are we playing?
Marc:And he told me, walk in my shadow.
Marc:which is a free song.
Marc:And I've got fucking thousands of records at this point, and I've got three or four free records, but not the one with Walking My Shadow, a song I'd never heard.
Marc:That's a great blues number.
Marc:So I learned that.
Marc:And then we wanted to do from a Buick 6, which is a Bob Dylan tune from Highway 61 Revisited.
Marc:So I learned those, got my chops in order, and I went down there.
Marc:with sarah and you know it was just a lot of a lot of dudes my age and older who are guitar players some people from the business dickie betts's kid was there forget his first name he's a guitar player and i was nervous man because i i choke i fucking choke when i got to play guitar in public there's a 50 50 chance that i'm going to choke and
Marc:I didn't want to, but I got up there and I laid it out, man.
Marc:I followed through, did a beautiful solo.
Marc:I've got to admit, I stayed on it.
Marc:I stayed in it.
Marc:I didn't exceed my abilities or tried to, and I felt pretty happy.
Marc:I actually had a good time.
Marc:Quote me.
Marc:I actually, did you hear me?
Marc:I had a good time playing guitar with Jimmy Vivino and I did good.
Marc:You can go to my Instagram feed if you want.
Marc:I think it's at Mark Maron.
Marc:And I posted like the first part of the solo.
Marc:I could post all of it, I think, if I could figure it out.
Marc:But you can hear how I entered it.
Marc:I'm proud of it.
Marc:I'm going to do more of it.
Marc:And that Goldtop, I got a Gibson Les Paul Goldtop reissue, 56.
Marc:That's the fucking guitar with those P90s, my friends.
Marc:That is my spirit animal.
Marc:That is my soul brother, that fucking deluxe.
Marc:So...
Marc:Five sets last night, one in the original room, and then Whitney Cummings had to cancel, so I did her spot in the main room, then I did one in the belly room, then I did another one in the original room, and then I did a last one in the belly room.
Marc:And those third and fourth sets, they got loopy.
Marc:The Oscars are happening and I'm not watching them because I'm going to be working tonight.
Marc:We'll talk about it Thursday.
Marc:Those third and fourth sets, I really should tape them.
Marc:I don't know why I don't and it doesn't matter if I do really, but
Marc:I got out there because I'm trying to riff through some new stuff.
Marc:So you just start opening up.
Marc:The brain keeps opening up.
Marc:And then you get out into this weird zone where you don't give a fuck.
Marc:And you just have a pretty good stream of consciousness going.
Marc:And it's surprising.
Marc:Not always funny.
Marc:But the audience will definitely be like, what the fuck just happened?
Marc:Which is fine.
Marc:Fine response.
Marc:But it was exciting.
Marc:So I'm going to let you listen to me talking to Sharon Stone.
Marc:Yeah, I watched Mosaic, which is currently on HBO, and she did a very astounding job with that performance, I thought.
Marc:She always does.
Marc:And I've always been very impressed with her emotional, uh, accessibility as a, as an actress and, and, and, and just the intensity of it.
Marc:But that one experience I had seeing her in person made me a little scared, but, uh,
Marc:But we did good.
Marc:We did very well.
Marc:It was a pleasure to talk to her.
Marc:It was exciting to engage with her.
Marc:She is one of the great actresses.
Marc:And it was just exciting to have her here in one of the last days of the garage.
Marc:So this is me talking to Sharon Stone.
Sharon Stone.
Guest:I have a couple of pieces of memorabilia from Marlon Brando.
Marc:You do?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How'd you get hold of that?
Guest:When he died, I bought them from his estate.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:I bought the letter that he sent, the telegram that he sent to Marilyn Monroe when she was in the neurological hospital.
Marc:Really?
Guest:That was so beautiful.
Marc:Was it like a poem-ish thing?
Guest:No, it was a telegram that he wrote to her that we should never be afraid of being afraid because it was in that place that we find the better part of ourselves.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And I bought the belt that his crew made for him when he directed Jack of Hearts.
Guest:And the leather band is all hand-tooled cards.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:And then the belt buckle is an MB, silver MB.
Marc:Nice.
Guest:Yeah, engraved on the back to him.
Marc:And do you wear it or just keep it tucked away somewhere?
Guest:I wear it.
Guest:I take it when I go on films.
Guest:You do?
Guest:And wear it to work.
Guest:And no one knows what it is, but I wear it to work.
Marc:It's sort of like a talisman?
Guest:It's my talisman.
Marc:That's something.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you ever meet him?
Yeah.
Guest:I didn't, but of course I hold him in the highest esteem.
Guest:I watch and re-watch the opening scene to The Fugitive Kind where he stands in front of the desk looking up and talking to the judge.
Guest:It's just one single long shot on him where he talks to the judge in a monologue.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And it's so unbelievable.
Marc:Because you can't take your eyes off him?
Guest:Yeah, and it's just so good.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He's just so...
Guest:You know, it was just that time when acting really changed and he was changing it and it's so beautiful.
Marc:Effortless and electric.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You could just watch him do nothing.
Guest:Yeah, and it's not nothing.
Marc:I know.
Guest:Because he's so invested in his work and he's so sincere and unfettered and so honest and his honesty is so brutal.
Marc:You seem to find that now.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:I feel like, what else is there?
Marc:Right.
Guest:You know, and...
Guest:You know, I mean, people find honesty so unpredictable.
Marc:It is.
Guest:Right?
Marc:And I think it makes people uncomfortable because they have to react to it somehow.
Marc:I think people get thrown off when things don't just happen that are mundane and kind of predictable.
Marc:When some real feelings come out, people get a little, they're like, what am I?
Marc:I have a responsibility now.
Guest:Some people do.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then some people just numb over.
Marc:I think I was over explaining that phenomenon.
Marc:Like they're sort of, they don't know what to do.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you always have this?
Guest:Apoplexia.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I get that a lot just from looking at the news.
Marc:Not so much from honesty with people.
Marc:I can handle that.
Guest:Well, I'm not sure the news is really the news anymore.
Guest:I mean, so many news stations have given up their news station status and taken on an entertainment status in their registry.
Guest:And we don't really even know, in fact, that news stations aren't registered as news stations so that they are not required to report actual news.
Guest:And so they're just talking.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Ideological aggravated entertainment.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And therefore, it's very hard to turn on anything and expect to hear news.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And it's exhausting.
Marc:So apoplexia is the right reaction to it.
Marc:It's overwhelming.
Guest:Or not mind numbing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you do you check out?
Marc:Do you do it?
Guest:Well, I get I find like I used to love to watch CNN.
Guest:Now, CNN is just the Donald Trump beat down channel.
Guest:And, you know, as much as, you know, anyone, I think that, you know, it's stupefying to watch his decisions being made.
Guest:It's more stupefying to watch a bunch of people continually ad nauseum discuss how stupid this one endless decision is.
Marc:And we're going to have three more people come in and talk about this.
Marc:And there's another four.
Guest:Yeah, to tell you why it's stupid.
Marc:So this Brando, the emotional honesty.
Marc:So when I watched you in Mosaic, which oddly, at the end, it was kind of provocative about art.
Marc:Of all things, I left that thing thinking about art.
Marc:Good.
Marc:Is that what I was supposed to do?
Guest:I think we're supposed to think about expression and that, you know, children really do tell the truth.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we should raise them not to be like us, but we should try to be more like them.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But also the sort of power structure, the people that buy art, the people that have the art and the people that revere the art.
Marc:And then the actual it sort of ends on the child's art.
Marc:I just thought it was my girlfriend's a painter, so she lives in that world.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:where these one-percenters who I don't know if they could give a shit about art are really buying all the art.
Marc:And there was just something about perception and about what art means, and I think what you said is the final note of it, but it was so corrupted and weird to me, the whole power structure of not just the murder, but about the art world and about how power never gets taken to task.
Guest:Well, I think there's truth in that, isn't there?
Marc:Sure, of course.
Marc:The whole thing was true, but I was surprised.
Marc:I'm watching you, and then we're all trying to figure out who killed you.
Guest:And then at the end... Well, in the app, you see who killed me.
Marc:Yeah, but I think I didn't do that part.
Guest:We'll see.
Guest:What do you know then?
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I guess I don't know.
Marc:You mean I don't know who killed you?
Marc:It's in the app.
Marc:I have to go to the app?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So I'm in the dark?
Marc:I watch the whole thing?
Marc:You're in the shadow.
Marc:I'm in the shadow.
Marc:I knew there was an app element.
Marc:There was an app component.
Guest:The app component is actually quite intriguing and a lot of fun to do.
Guest:i because i got the app first because it was completed first yeah and so when we did the publicity tour i hadn't seen the hbo product yeah the the hbo show is fabulous i think yeah i think they did a terrific job and and a whole a completely different a woman editor come in and she re-edited it from a completely different perspective uh-huh
Guest:Which was very, very interesting to look at the Rashomon of it, to see someone take this same material, the same footage, and edit it from yet another perspective.
Marc:Different point of view.
Guest:Because the app has it from several perspectives.
Guest:That's the point of view of the app, is that you can watch it from many different perspectives.
Marc:From the characters.
Guest:And yet again, the HBO thing is one more perspective.
Marc:So but there is a conclusive.
Guest:There's a conclusive reality where you can see who did do the murder.
Marc:And that's like one of the options on the app that you should probably wait to watch that one until you kind of play around with your ideas first.
Guest:Well, that happens as you go through the different, it's like a family tree where you can come down and choose the different ways that you view it in perspective.
Guest:But you do come to the understanding of who committed the murder as you walk through the app.
Marc:And is there more, so there's actually more footage and scenes of you?
Guest:Yes, yeah.
Marc:You shot a lot more than what's on the HBO show.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:So this requires that you do the app thing, if you want the full experience.
Guest:I think it's pretty great.
Marc:Yeah, no, it sounds great.
Guest:I think it's really intriguing.
Guest:I just guess I'm becoming... I mean, I could tell from the HBO thing who committed the murder.
Guest:But it's a little bit like anything.
Guest:If you want to know, you can.
Guest:And if you kind of want to...
Guest:la la la la la you don't i like the guy who played the the cop he was kind of great oh my god it's just so um devon rattray devon rattray yeah yeah and he was like he wasn't even like home alone i mean he's been around forever oh he's was in heartland and like a little kid actor oh yeah he's just been in everything we were lucky to have him
Marc:And you were so in it, like you were making me emotionally uncomfortable in a good way, the way that you played the vulnerability of that character, just wide open.
Guest:I was lucky, because Ed Solomon wrote that piece for me, and he's the most marvelous writer ever.
Guest:He wrote so many great films and so many great things.
Guest:Like what?
Guest:Like Men in Black.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Big movies.
Guest:Big, big things.
Guest:He's just a wonderful, wonderful writer and a lovely man.
Marc:It's nice to have somebody know you well enough to be able to create a character for you.
Guest:Well, they started writing it for me, and then I met with them, and then he continued to put it in a language for me.
Guest:And I loved the kind of that dark, dry, somewhat vulgar humor that they wrote the character in.
Guest:I just thought...
Guest:I love those kind of jokes where you know that nobody's going to laugh right that minute, but they're going to laugh later.
Guest:I love that kind of humor.
Guest:Because they're so taken aback in the moment.
Guest:That you say it.
Guest:That you said it.
Guest:What the fuck just happened?
Guest:Right.
Guest:That you're going to say a line like, you just took a shit on my carpet and wiped your ass off my drapes.
Guest:And people are just going to be like, what?
Guest:wow but then late tomorrow at the cooler they're gonna laugh yeah it's like a very disarming and kind of right yeah yeah i love i think that was so wonderful about her that she had this really great way of loving that was disarming and captivating i i i like that character unpredictable and and sort of infamous
Guest:and were you able was there room for improvising or was it pretty scripted it was very well scripted very very well scripted and we had to shoot a lot in a day because there was so much to do because the script was 500 pages long and because of the app we had a lot to do because we had to do takes from a lot of different perspectives and sometimes we were shooting 20 or 30 pages a day
Guest:So it was a lot.
Marc:Wow, that's 20 pages a day.
Guest:That's a lot.
Guest:That's crazy.
Guest:In film time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Steven Soderbergh shot himself.
Guest:He was one of the cameramen.
Guest:They shoot on the RED camera, which is a new, wonderful digital camera.
Guest:And he's just a marvelous director.
Marc:Had you worked with him before?
Guest:I had not.
Guest:And I was just so pleased to work with him.
Marc:What's his approach to actors?
Guest:Well, everybody said that he wasn't going to talk to me.
Guest:Don't worry, he doesn't talk to you.
Guest:If he doesn't say anything, that means he likes it.
Guest:And I found him to be quite communicative and extremely funny and dry.
Guest:And sometimes he would just say the littlest thing that would be...
Guest:Like when I walk up to the bar to meet the character of the young man who's going to move in with me.
Guest:And as I'm walking up to the bar, Steven says to me, just whisper to me, give him an elevator.
Guest:And I just love that kind of direction.
Guest:Because it gives you...
Marc:What does that mean?
Guest:You know, it's the look him up and down, but it's the look him up and down in a certain way.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:It's a certain, it reminded me so much of like the sweet smell of success.
Guest:The way that Tony Curtis and Bert Lancaster and Joan Blondell, and it reminded me of the way that they talked.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:And it reminded me of a certain kind of woman.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:It's more than just look him over.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's a way, it's a feeling of, it's more direction than you, it's a lot of direction in a real shorthand.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's about being a kind of woman.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's about a sort of a set up the scene in a certain way.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's about you're that kind of babe.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You're the babe that gives him the look over and gets the drink and talks to him like that kind of broad.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he gives it to you really tight and sharp.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And it tells you about the whole scene.
Guest:It's not just look him over, up and down.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's that's the kind of scene this is.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he talks...
Guest:To me, in any case, he talks in a way that I really could, you know, it's right on the beat for me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So if he gives you something, it captures the whole sense of...
Guest:of the experience.
Guest:So I knew what the whole scene was, you know, like, yeah, I want a drink, pour me something strong and, you know, tough, you know, give me something strong and muscular, pour me something strong and muscular.
Guest:Like it's a whole, it's a rhythmic, it's a feeling, it's about, it's about...
Guest:take me back to that kind of woman who knows how to pick up a man by the way that she talks.
Marc:Right, yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:You're picking him up by just giving him some clues.
Marc:Throwing him around a little bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And the sort of painful thing about that is that I don't know how often you see the other side of that woman, which you do in this thing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Where, you know, the vulnerability, the sadness, the loneliness, you know, just under it.
Marc:Like that scene where, you know, just even thinking about it where, you know, the girlfriend shows up when you've just made breakfast or whatever.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And you bring that stuff in there and you're just standing there like an idiot.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That was like horrendous.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then she tells that joke.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Just to nothing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:To nothing.
Guest:And no one knows what the hell she's talking about.
Guest:And the vulnerability of that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:And beautiful, I think.
Marc:Yeah, definitely.
Guest:Like a weird flower in the wind, just with all the poof flowing off of her.
Guest:Like all the wind is just blowing off the flower.
Guest:And like, yeah.
Marc:There you are.
Marc:Just a stem.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, just in the bare stem.
Marc:The bare stem.
Marc:But do you think that your acting has become like, that's what I was getting at the beginning there, that more informed as you get older?
Marc:Because I remember seeing you.
Guest:Now that the poof has been blown off my stem a million times.
Guest:I think so.
Marc:But like, because when I, I mean, after Casino, I mean, you've worked a lot.
Marc:But I remember when I saw you in Alpha Dog, I was like, this is like a different Sharon Stone.
Marc:Like in terms of what you were doing emotionally, even in that fat suit.
Guest:I went through a period where I went to this man who was my friend, David Schiff, and asked him to be my agent.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we agreed that I would just take character parts.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And...
Guest:So, because I just, it was dull to be offered the same thing all the time.
Guest:Typecast.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I did things like Alpha Dog.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I worked with Jim Jaramush.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And that... These kind of... Oh, Broken Flowers.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:I did these kind of...
Guest:Sort of obtuse in these different esoteric characters, all these different kinds of things.
Guest:And Lovelace and all these parts where I could just disappear into these characters.
Guest:Because I needed to...
Guest:For me, even basic instinct was much more of a character part.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Then, you know, of course, because I pulled it off, then everybody thought, oh, that's the type she is.
Guest:But it was a big stretch for me as a person.
Marc:To do that character.
Guest:It was a big stretch for me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was way outside of my comfort zone because I never thought of myself in that way.
Guest:But...
Guest:I understood the character, which was a very complicated character.
Marc:Which way?
Marc:Thought of yourself in which way?
Guest:Hypersexual.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:But the character, the hypersexuality was just a symptom of the crisis of the character.
Guest:The character was a sociopathic serial killer.
Guest:The hypersexuality was just the...
Guest:um the way she protected herself well and it was also a big part of the illness it was a way that the illness um manifested itself through the hypersexuality but the but the problem was that she was a sociopathic serial killer that's a problem yeah right and that is a big character to to break down yeah and to figure out what is your process with that
Marc:Well... I mean, when did you train when you were younger?
Guest:Oh, God, yeah.
Guest:I had a spectacular acting teacher named Roy London.
Marc:Oh, I've heard of Roy London.
Marc:People talk about him all the time.
Marc:In New York?
Marc:Here.
Marc:Here.
Guest:Here.
Guest:He came from New York.
Guest:But he, everybody.
Guest:He was Robert Downey and Forrest Whitaker and Geena Davis and Brad Pitt.
Guest:And he was everybody's acting teacher.
Guest:He just was amazing.
Guest:When did you start with him?
Guest:Oh, I was with him...
Guest:From the beginning?
Guest:15 years.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:He was just the most wonderful.
Guest:He was like Gary Shandling.
Guest:Oh, yeah, right.
Guest:And he worked with Gary on his show.
Guest:And, you know, we were all just devotees of his.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:What was his process?
Marc:Like, what do you have of it now that you, you know, sort of apply?
Guest:Everything.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, what you're saying is not necessarily what you're meaning, as everyone knows.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I love you could mean I'm going to stab you in the eye, you know, or you're everything to me or got to go.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You never know what you're saying really means.
Guest:And you have to know what you're doing and why you're doing it and what the point is.
Marc:So I interrupted you.
Marc:So you signed on with that agent who got you those other roles in After Basic Instinct.
Guest:That was really important, I think, to my development because I had to, for my own edification, I had to understand myself and my work and to be able to vanish so much inside my work that people didn't even know that it was me.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like in Lovelace, for example.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that when I came back to my work, I didn't feel...
Guest:taken advantage of if I played a character again that perhaps had sexuality or hypersexuality to it.
Marc:Yeah, so you pushed back against the typecasting.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And I would imagine that...
Marc:It's it's did you realize at that time that like this is what Hollywood does that you know once you surface as as a powerhouse a sexual powerhouse character logically that you're anything.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know if you're Iron Man that you're going to be Iron Man forever forever.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you felt that, obviously.
Guest:Yeah, because I think it's about, it's called show business, not show what do you feel like doing today.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, so it's about the business of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But to be really good, even playing a hypersexual character, you have to be able to reinvest at a deeper and better level, so you have to become more.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it's about that process of how to become more.
Yeah.
Marc:When did you grow up?
Marc:In Pennsylvania.
Marc:In like rural Pennsylvania?
Marc:Yeah, in Amish country.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:But not with farmers?
Guest:Oh, yes.
Marc:You have family of farmers?
Guest:No.
Marc:Or just farmers down the street?
Guest:My father was a dye sinker in a tool and dye shop.
Marc:What does that do?
Guest:What is that job?
Guest:A metal block would come in and they would put the blueprint on top of the steel block.
Guest:And then my dad would cut the die cast, the precision cast, into the piece of steel.
Guest:And then they would make car parts, machine parts, gun parts, tank parts, whatever, out of this die, out of this cast.
Marc:So it was like, what were his tools?
Marc:Was it welding?
Guest:A giant machine that would cut out of the thing.
Guest:Steel.
Guest:I mean, my dad's forearms were the size of most people's legs.
Guest:My dad was ripped.
Guest:My dad looked like Schwarzenegger.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:But as time went on, then they started to laser cut it.
Guest:And then all of these companies came to my dad and asked him to come and teach their people how to move forward.
Guest:And ultimately, these businesses went out of business.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But he had a full life of it, retired from it?
Guest:He had a full life of it.
Guest:He didn't get put out of business by the machine?
Guest:No.
Marc:That's good.
Guest:At the very end, he had his own small shop.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, my dad got put out of business by cancer.
Marc:Oh, that's bad.
Marc:How old was he?
Guest:In his 70s.
Guest:In his late 70s.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what did your mom do?
Guest:My mother was a homemaker and an Avon lady.
Marc:Avon.
Guest:And then she went back to school and graduated high school with my graduating class.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And then went back to business school and became my dad's bookkeeper.
Guest:so you graduated with your mother yeah that must have been interesting and exciting somehow they both she and my dad went back to school at night he to become a journeyman die sinker and she to get her high school diploma neither of them had graduated high school they got together when they were teenagers yeah my mom had her first child when she was 17 who was that my brother michael yeah and my parents were together for 60 years it's beautiful
Guest:In their way, yeah.
Guest:In that country, very country, deeply committed for children.
Marc:What was lacking when you say in their way that you would have, was it a community?
Marc:Did they talk?
Guest:My parents were madly in love.
Marc:Oh, that's great.
Guest:They had a beautiful relationship.
Guest:I don't think that my mother ever got to fulfill herself and be who she would and could have been.
Guest:My mother, brilliant woman who came from extraordinary poverty.
Guest:She was given away when she was nine years old to be a housekeeper in a dental home and office.
Guest:In Pennsylvania?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:as the third generation of Irish maids because that was a better life for her from the extraordinary poverty in which she grew up where she and her four sisters had rickets and scurvy from the poverty in her home.
Guest:Her father poured molten metal in a... Steel milk?
Guest:that looked pretty much like hell when you went when i went in there as a little kid they wore these kind of asbestos suits and huge metal um hats and helmets and asbestos gloves that went up to their shoulders and you would go in there and it literally it looked like you were walking into hell they were pouring big buckets of hot metal was it a steel mill yeah and you used to go over there yeah to see your grandfather yeah
Marc:Wow.
Guest:And it was horrific.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just horrific.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the poverty was the kind of poverty where the bathtub was in the kitchen and the ice box where they brought ice in was in the kitchen.
Marc:Wild.
Marc:But you knew your grandparents.
Guest:I knew them.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:Were they nice to you?
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:No, they were not.
Guest:It wasn't, you know, that's not where nice really happens.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My grandmother tried to be nice, you know, and on Easter she made fantastic homemade Easter eggs out of chocolate and
Guest:And things where she decorated them and they were very, very beautiful.
Guest:And that was the special thing that she did each year.
Guest:But it was a level of poverty and extraordinary and extreme poverty.
Marc:That there was no room for... For niceness.
Marc:Yeah, too brutal.
Guest:No.
Guest:And on the other side, on my dad's side, they had been extraordinarily wealthy.
Guest:They were the first oil drillers in Oil City, Pennsylvania.
Guest:And my grandmother was a phenomenally wealthy woman with chaparelli suits and silk hose and...
Guest:And then one day when my father was very small, and he had a brother and a sister, and his father was in business with his brother.
Guest:The two men were at an oil site, and they pulled with mules the rigs, like in Giant, kind of, up to the oil site.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they were dropping the nitroglycerin into the well, and it blew too soon.
Guest:And my grandfather had gone back to the house.
Guest:He was sick, and he went back to get a sweater.
Guest:And while he was gone, the well site blew and killed everyone at the well.
Guest:His brother, the mules, the people who were up there.
Guest:It was just a horrific accident.
Guest:And...
Guest:A few months later, my grandfather died of pneumonia, and I'm sure grief.
Guest:And because in those days, nothing went to women.
Guest:The women had no power.
Guest:The business went to the 18-year-old son of my great-uncle.
Guest:And apparently the legend has it that he drank and gambled it all away within a couple years.
Guest:And so my grandmother became destitute from being extremely wealthy.
Guest:And my dad, who was four, and his little brother, who was three, were given away and grew up in people's barns doing their chores.
Guest:And my grandmother took her daughter
Guest:And moved into the sanatorium down the street and became a nurse in the sanatorium and laundress.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And...
Marc:for the mentally ill people yeah it's so odd to hear just people giving away their kids to workplaces there was nothing to do in those days you know that was the depression era right and it was pennsylvania which i i forget how i don't forget but i don't know if people know how rural that is it's coal mining yeah uh erie lackawanna railroad yep uh towel and zipper factories wow that's and you had how many siblings
Guest:I have four.
Guest:Four of us, three siblings.
Marc:Everyone still around?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You get along?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's nice.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And where do you fall in the middle?
Guest:Well, I have a brother seven years older and a brother seven years younger and a sister three years younger.
Marc:Oh, that's wild.
Marc:And you needed to get out?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:After high school?
Marc:When did you like, I got to get the fuck out?
Guest:Well, I went to high school and college simultaneously from the time I was 15.
Marc:Really?
Guest:And then very shortly after that, I moved to my college campus.
Marc:Which college?
Guest:Edinburgh State University, which was...
Guest:Close to home.
Guest:I had scholarships to go further away, but I was so young my parents didn't want me to.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Which I'm sorry about.
Marc:They were worried about you.
Guest:Yeah, because I was so little.
Marc:And you were 15, 16, ready to go to college?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Well, they probably did the right thing, no?
Guest:Who knows?
Marc:When did you leave?
Guest:Well, that was it.
Guest:I left and just didn't come back.
Marc:At what age?
Guest:Well, it's sort of hard to think.
Guest:I guess 17, maybe?
Marc:And you went to New York?
Guest:Well, when I really left and went to New York, I was probably 19.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what happened there?
Guest:I modeled for Eileen Ford, and then I moved to Milan.
Marc:Oh, for the big scene?
Guest:Same year.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And lived there, and then I moved to Paris the next year and lived there.
Marc:That's exciting, right?
Yeah.
Guest:Um...
Marc:Or were you just sitting in apartments with women throwing up?
Guest:You know, this was the 80s.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It was a very wild time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You got to remember, this was the Studio 54 time.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And you were like 19?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It was very, very wild.
Marc:Did you have a good time, Sharon?
Guest:Uh...
Guest:I had a very intriguing time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, it was a very...
Guest:Fortunately, I had a really great best friend who had gone to school in Italy.
Guest:She was an exchange student, and she'd gone to art school in Florence, and she was my roommate in New York.
Guest:So she gave me a lot of tips.
Marc:To stay safe?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, she told me to tell all the Italians that I was a virgin.
Guest:And she taught me some Italian.
Guest:And so that was my M.O.
Guest:And so Italian men revere a virgin.
Guest:And so that really helped me out quite a bit.
Marc:It saved you some... A lot of aggression.
Marc:Right, okay, there you go.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it worked.
Guest:It helped me out quite a bit.
Marc:That's amazing, and you committed to it, and it worked.
Marc:I did commit to that.
Marc:That you were able to play the Italian men like that.
Guest:I played the Virgin in Italy card.
Marc:But how about New York?
Marc:The Madonna card.
Marc:How did you not... I mean, you seem now, and I imagine you always were pretty...
Marc:Grounded, but it just seems that that business ate a lot of people up, used a lot of people up.
Marc:I mean, it seems like there are women who transcended it, but a lot of women did not.
Guest:Well, my older brother had been in a lot of trouble.
Guest:And, you know, I had to keep my... Like jail trouble?
Guest:Yeah, my brother went to prison.
Guest:My brother went to Attica.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:And so I had matured pretty quickly over that situation.
Guest:And because of that, I...
Guest:I was pretty feet on the ground.
Guest:And I think when that sort of thing happens, that's not a small thing.
Guest:And that's not an overnight thing.
Marc:Is he out?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:He got 14 to life.
Guest:And then he got transferred to a white-collar camp, and then he got sent back to Attica, but then he eventually got out after a couple of years, and he got 10 years of parole.
Guest:And then after he got out of parole, he came out and moved in with me for a while.
Marc:In New York?
Guest:I was in L.A.
Guest:by then.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And, you know, that was tough because having him with me was a lot of responsibility.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I only think he's beginning to understand any of that now.
Guest:Really?
Guest:How young I really was.
Guest:How difficult it was to be so young and have the responsibility of him.
Guest:I think that he kind of...
Guest:Thought that I was always a powerful big movie star.
Guest:I don't think he really understood that I was like a young kid when it was all starting.
Marc:Well, you had that personality where people are like, she'll be okay.
Marc:She's got her shit together.
Guest:Ever since I was little.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I was the kid that didn't need any attention because I would be okay.
Guest:Right, exactly.
Guest:And that's a hard kid to be in the family.
Marc:Especially when it starts to break down.
Guest:Yeah, and you're little.
Marc:Yeah, and everyone's looking at you like you're the parent.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Or the one who knows things.
Guest:Yeah, instead you're the one whose birthday they forget.
Guest:You're the one they forget to pay attention to.
Guest:You're the one that no one ever looks at.
Marc:And you've got nowhere to go to.
Marc:Who are you going to go to?
Guest:No one.
Guest:And it just seems like I've been the one in my life who had no one to ever go to.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And I feel a little bit like that has affected my life intensely.
Guest:You know, I'm the one with three adopted kids and no partner.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because no one ever seems to think that I need someone to lean on or to put my head on their shoulder or for them to listen to me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And when I say that I do, it's a little bit like, can't be true.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So you brought a lot of that to that mosaic part.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I feel a little bit like I'm over that a bit.
Guest:If I'm going to be alone, I'd rather be alone.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think after a certain point, when you know yourself well enough, it's just exhausting.
Guest:It is exhausting.
Guest:It is exhausting.
Marc:To be with people sometimes.
Guest:Yeah, when you've been doing this since you were little.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So after you model for a while, what gets you into movies?
Guest:Well, even when I was in modeling, you have a lot of good toys on the desk here.
Guest:Good.
Guest:Even when...
Guest:uh i was modeling right from the start i did a lot of commercials yeah um at first i had a bit of a pennsylvania accent what does that sound like you know jet yet come on down here really yeah you know we shot that deer did you shoot that deer yeah i hit that deer with my car and then i put it on a hood
Guest:And then went out and got something to eat.
Guest:Did you eat?
Guest:Did you have some pop with your dinner?
Guest:Did you have pop or what did you have?
Guest:It's a little bit like that.
Guest:You talk like that, you talk like that, and then all sentences kind of run together.
Marc:It's not quite Southern.
Guest:But it's a little bit Southern.
Marc:A little bit, yeah.
Guest:And so then even when I got my accent to be mid-Atlantic, sometimes people will say, what's with the Southern?
Guest:She has a little bit of a Southern accent when I slow down, I have a little...
Guest:It's because when you're from Pennsylvania, you're right up West Virginia, you're like a little Mason Dixon.
Guest:And so even when I get my mid-Atlantic going, I can get a little bit where it sounds a little Southern if I'm not careful.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, because there is a little bit of that, kind of like that country twang that just keeps going all the time when you talk like that.
Marc:You've got to do a part where you do that.
Guest:Where I talk like that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did you hit a deer?
Marc:I didn't eat, and I didn't hit a deer.
Guest:You want a sandwich?
Guest:Yeah, I do want a sandwich.
Guest:A sandwich?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I started listening and I told Walter Cronkite this a long time ago.
Guest:I watched Walter Cronkite on the news and I would, you know, make dinner and say what he said and keep repeating it back.
Guest:But the problem was all my sentences had stops in the middle.
Guest:Because he was reading a teleprompter.
Guest:And I toasted him at a party and said that once.
Guest:And he was like, well, Sharon, there's something I'd like to say to you.
Guest:Fuck off.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:So you had to get rid of the accent.
Marc:You're doing commercials.
Guest:I did hundreds of commercials.
Guest:Were you a big model?
No.
Guest:At that time, I wasn't really the right size because the girls were like nine feet tall and weighed 100 pounds.
Guest:But I was successful.
Guest:I was what was called special bookings because I had a good face.
Guest:And I did a lot of commercials and a lot of beauty.
Guest:And there were about 15 of us which were called special bookings, which was a big deal in that day.
Guest:And I made a lot of money and I did well in a certain way.
Marc:And you were there in New York for Studio 54 and all that shit.
Guest:Yep.
Marc:And you went to those parties.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:And you just saw the insanity.
Marc:Just cocaine insanity.
Guest:Yep.
Marc:People having sex in the club all around.
Marc:In the club.
Guest:Everywhere.
Guest:In the balcony.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you were able to have some distance from that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because, you know, my brother had already been arrested.
Guest:What did he get arrested for?
Guest:Um...
Marc:cocaine uh possession of uh oh that's what he would did time for yeah uh-huh oh so that oh that's very specific so it's not murder it's sort of like this shit's bad yeah you saw him go down it was on television they fbi kicked down the door and they televised it wow so he was like a regional dealer type like day before christmas okay so that okay so that's where the lesson sunk in that that shit's bad
Guest:Well, I just was like, you know, I was never into cocaine.
Guest:It was not my thing.
Marc:You're lucky.
Guest:Yeah, I didn't.
Guest:I'm not.
Guest:That wasn't my.
Marc:You don't have an addictive personality.
Guest:You know, no.
Guest:I had, there were some alcoholics in my family.
Guest:And, you know, holidays where you pick a couple alcoholics up off the floor.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:As a regular, that's what, you know, Christmas and Thanksgiving, that's a part of it.
Guest:You know, it's just not my thing.
Marc:Well, that's great because you have that personality, right?
Marc:So you're the one that's in control all the time.
Guest:I was always that kid.
Guest:Right.
Marc:But, you know, like kids who have to deal with that go one of two ways.
Marc:Either you go the control way or you go the out of control way.
Guest:My dad was never drank, you know.
Guest:That's good.
Marc:But family, extended family, like uncles and whatnot.
Guest:Yeah, and I just, it wasn't, no.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, no, you want to keep your wits about you.
Guest:It's just so unattractive to me.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I really, people who drink and then talk and tell you how much they care about you is really, to me, one of the like, ugh.
Marc:The worst?
Guest:Ugh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just, ugh.
Marc:So I didn't realize, so you broke into movies with Woody Allen, kind of.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And I remember it, you know, but like until I read it yesterday, I'm like, oh my God.
Marc:That was my first job.
Marc:You were the pretty lady on the train.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Going to the same place, at the dump.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And how did you get that job?
Guest:I, this extras casting guy named Ricardo Bertone, who I met in New York, called me and said that Juliet Taylor was casting extras.
Guest:And so I roller skated over.
Guest:you roller skated over it was that period okay and uh real roller skates not even roller blades no right the big clunky yeah yeah yeah i came over and roller skated into the extras line and when i got to the front juliet taylor handed my picture to woody who happened to be sitting there yeah astonishingly enough and then uh
Marc:Three on the train.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's when it started.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I had so much fun.
Guest:And then Gordon Willis, who was an amazing cinematographer, who shot, of course, all the Godfather movies and everything that ever mattered in that period, was there.
Guest:And I don't know, they got a kick out of me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then Michael Pizer, the first AD, came and said, you know, they really like you, and they want to know if you'd like to work for a couple weeks.
Guest:We can't pay you what you're paying to model, but would you like to keep working?
Guest:And I said I would, and I did.
Marc:Yeah, for that movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And that started it all.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And then you moved out here.
Guest:Well, then Michael Peiser called me on a couple other gigs.
Guest:I worked in a French movie with James Caan.
Guest:And then I worked in some other movie.
Marc:How was he?
Guest:You know what?
Guest:We're friends to this day.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's good to hear.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Solid?
Guest:Solid and hilarious.
Guest:And he's been a very stand-up friend to me all my life.
Guest:that's great to hear yeah jimmy and you know joe pesci and jimmy jimmy con yeah joe pesci yeah uh jimmy woods yeah these guys that i worked with through marty all of them have just been such stand-up friends to me yeah i mean they really make sure that i'm okay
Marc:And they have for a long time.
Guest:Yep.
Marc:That's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So Pesci, you talked to Pesci?
Guest:Pesci.
Guest:Chris Walken.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Who I've had the joy of working with a couple times.
Guest:These are the greatest guys.
Marc:Oh, that's nice to hear.
Guest:Wonderful men.
Marc:And you're in touch with them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they're wonderful.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Wonderful friends to me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I guess that's hard to find.
Guest:I mean, they just stand up for me.
Guest:They're really, really great.
Marc:In what kind of situations is that required?
Yeah.
Guest:You know, someone says is inappropriate in front of me or around me.
Guest:They just tell them to shut it the fuck down.
Marc:I don't know why.
Marc:I still don't really understand the amount of shit that that smart, talented, outspoken women get.
Marc:Because on this show, just for instance, it's happened when we used to have a comment board.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Where I'd have somebody like Chelsea Handler on, or I talked to Jen Lawrence the other day.
Marc:We took the comment board down.
Marc:But only those guests just get this barrage of garbage people.
Marc:Just fuck her, fuck that.
Marc:When you see that and you realize that the misogyny and the threat is so deep, it's deeply disturbing.
Yeah.
Guest:You know, the threat... I think these people are expressing how threatened they feel.
Guest:Right.
Guest:They feel threatened.
Guest:It's something in themselves that they can't confront.
Guest:There's something in themselves that they can't look at, that they can't face, that...
Guest:Hearing us or being around us or looking at us presses a button.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That makes them feel so threatened.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That I would just suggest, you know, just sitting with it a little bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just sitting with that feeling that makes you feel so threatened.
Guest:Sit with that and see what's going on.
Marc:Yeah, we're not in the age of sitting with things.
Guest:No, we're in the age of just spitting back at the person like you did something to me.
Guest:You know, I don't think anybody, any of us are trying to make you feel bad.
Guest:But if it's hurting you, just the mere presence is hurting you.
Guest:What is new is hurt so much.
Guest:You know, there's a salve for that.
Guest:There's someone to talk to.
Guest:There's things online you can look at.
Guest:There's people that will talk to you and help you and make you feel less bad.
Guest:You don't need to yell at... Women.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Or your screen.
Guest:Yeah, I mean...
Guest:there's really love and compassion and empathy that you can actually have.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know if, I don't know if everyone's designed to take it.
Marc:I, I know that's, I mean, you know, it's like I, even myself, I mean, I know in myself, I don't know if you, cause I have a similar situation where I was always the kid that was thought to have a shit together.
Marc:But like when people come at me with love, I don't always trust it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, and nor should you.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I know.
Guest:But you have to be discerning and it's hard to be discerning about love.
Guest:Love is messy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And people, all these like sweet songs and stupid movies and everything don't tell us how messy love is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It can get really volatile.
Guest:And disorganized.
Guest:It's so hard for me to... Chaotic and weird and...
Marc:Where's good?
Marc:Does good come in?
Marc:Is that on the list?
Guest:I mean, yes, beyond good.
Guest:Good, ecstatic, astounding, blissful till your head hurts.
Guest:But at the same time... There's a price.
Guest:Nothing's free, baby.
Marc:Okay, so we talked a bit about basic instinct, but what was the experience?
Marc:And I love that you're friends with all these guys still.
Marc:That's so nice.
Marc:I don't hear that very often.
Guest:I'm friends with Verhoeven.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Which takes some doing.
Marc:Yeah, it's what I hear.
Marc:He's a character, huh?
Guest:He's complicated, you know?
Guest:I mean, he's got a doctorate in physics.
Guest:He's got a doctorate in theology, though he has no faith.
Guest:You know, he's a complicated, fascinating, brilliant, difficult person.
Marc:What's he been doing?
Guest:He did this beautiful movie with Isabella Huppert about rape, which is extraordinary.
Guest:I think it's called Her.
Guest:That won a lot of awards this last year.
Guest:He did a movie, I think it was called Mrs. Stone, but in German, that was very interesting, particularly to me.
Guest:Why?
Guest:Well, because the character had a lot of things about it that were just particular to me.
Guest:When I watched it in the theater, I really was...
Marc:Felt exposed?
Guest:I felt surprised.
Guest:I was surprised at the theater.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Did he write the movie?
Guest:Parts of it, clearly.
Guest:And so I just was like... Did you feel betrayed?
Guest:It was... No.
Guest:Because no one but me would know which parts.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:Did you call him and say, what the fuck?
Guest:No.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:I didn't because I now... We're way beyond what the fuck.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:What the fuck happened when I saw Basic Instinct.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Now I...
Guest:I have a much deeper understanding of the artist and the person.
Guest:And he's really a profoundly dedicated artist.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:And...
Guest:Someone who I understand.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:And you have a creative relationship with him as well.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Like there's a simpatico there.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Do you have that with Scorsese as well?
Guest:I think I do.
Guest:I think I do.
Marc:I really... Man, you're running up that driveway and casino.
Marc:That's...
Guest:Well, because he asked me, you know, do you want to do the car?
Guest:Do you want the stunt person?
Guest:I'm like to crash the car.
Guest:I'm like, I'm living to smash this car.
Guest:I really I was so happy to do that.
Guest:And when the bumpers hooked together, I couldn't have been more thrilled because that was really kind of what it was about.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:The smash up that hooked together.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Marc:What did you say to him?
Marc:You keep an eye on him.
Marc:You're like, I just got to be in the house for one second.
Guest:It was just, it was a wonderful experience.
Guest:Working with Marty in any capacity is, for me, just an absolute pleasure.
Guest:And I feel that way about Albert Brooks.
Marc:Oh, you did The Muse, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's great.
Guest:I'm nuts about Albert.
Guest:I hope to work with him in any capacity moving forward.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So funny.
Marc:And you can do comedy.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:You can do anything, which is great.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:I, Albert is, I mean, I can do anything with the right people.
Guest:I mean, I have to have people I can talk to.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:And you trust.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'd like to work with Judd Aptow because I get him.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He's brilliant and freaking funny.
Marc:What'd you do with him?
Yeah.
Guest:Well, I have not, but I did... He was Gary's very good friend.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:And I feel like I would have a...
Guest:I feel like I get him.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Who, Judd?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Sweet.
Guest:Sweet.
Guest:Smart.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Focused.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And likes emotion.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He likes it.
Marc:And he likes the happy part.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yay.
Marc:He's struggling for the happy part.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Fighting for the happy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which I really.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Happiness is a discipline.
Guest:No shit.
Guest:And not a lot of people have the guts to discipline themselves to happy.
Marc:Yeah, because it's a lot more easy and predictable to be shitty.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:You know it's going to happen.
Guest:It's the easy way out.
Guest:So here it's happening again.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like I said.
Marc:Like I said it would.
Marc:I told you this yesterday.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Now we're in it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's a little tedious.
Yeah.
Marc:How did you get that?
Marc:Like, it's very hard to play up for a couple of days on cocaine.
Marc:I mean, like, you know, I'm just thinking about that.
Marc:I still, for some reason, you know, you running into that house, you know, having, you know, been partying and just like not sleeping.
Marc:And because there's a thing that happens to your body.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Where you just kind of you don't work right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And you did that.
Yeah.
Guest:Yes, what I do to do that is that I don't eat.
Marc:Okay, so you got weak.
Guest:Yes, what I do is I, when I'm doing that on film, what I do is I stop eating and I drink diluted protein drinks.
Okay.
Guest:And it makes my – because I have a very, very fast metabolism.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like bizarre fast metabolism.
Guest:And it makes my metabolism really crank up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I get really buzzy.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Really like – Yeah.
Guest:Really cranked up.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And really like – Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If I don't have food.
Guest:I'm not a person who if I don't have food, I get –
Marc:Right.
Guest:I just get wound up.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Like I need to eat to settle down.
Guest:Yeah, right, right.
Marc:Yeah, you don't get all like I'm about to pass out.
Guest:No.
Marc:You go the other way.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And when you work with De Niro, it sounds like you're closer with Pesci ultimately as a friend.
Guest:Well, I really love Bob.
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:And I so respect Bob.
Guest:And I admire Bob at a level that's almost a little bit unhealthy, probably.
Guest:But Bob is very... His focus level is amazing.
Guest:And there's no goofing around.
Guest:You're just in it.
Guest:So I can't say that I hang out with Bob in the same way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But the work is the greatest thing that ever happened.
Marc:To be with him working?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's fantastic.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Because whatever you give, he's right there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I loved that...
Guest:That constant, constant in it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like you're in it.
Guest:It's like you dive into the deep end of the pool and you stay there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I just love that.
Guest:I love the immersiveness of it.
Guest:I love the profound deep dive.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So with Shanling, he's another sweetheart that we lost.
Marc:You were good friends with him?
Yeah.
Guest:I was very good friends with Gary, and he was my boyfriend at one point a long, long time ago.
Guest:Oh, that's right.
Guest:That happened.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was like we were all the different things you could be.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was like my boyfriend.
Guest:He was like my brother.
Guest:He was like my family.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, we were very, very, very close.
Guest:We wrote stuff together.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We...
Guest:worked together, we were in class together, we dated, Roy was like our parent.
Marc:That class must have just been amazing.
Marc:Oh, did you have fun with Franco and that disaster artist?
Guest:I did.
Marc:I thought that was a good part.
Guest:I did.
Guest:And I'm appalled by this thing about him that's happening where the girlfriend, I don't know how the girlfriend can say that she's offended that he asked for a blowjob while they're dating and now all of a sudden he's a bad guy.
Guest:Well, I got to tell you, I worked with him.
Guest:I know him.
Guest:He's the loveliest, kindest, sweetest, elegant, nicest man, most kind friend, lovely professional.
Guest:I'm absolutely appalled by this.
Marc:And what about, you know, the sort of broader idea of it?
Marc:I mean, having been, you know, a sex symbol in this business for decades, what were you up against?
Guest:Well, I've seen it all.
Guest:There isn't any of it that I haven't seen or experienced.
Guest:I have found, of course, much of this behavior absolutely hideous and appalling, and there was nowhere to go with it.
Guest:Now that it's happening and that it can be curtailed, I think that's brilliant.
Guest:My approach...
Guest:At this point, I have confronted a couple of the people.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Personally?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:How'd that go?
Guest:I just said, you know, I'm not naming names and ruining lives.
Guest:But if I was, I would name your name and ruin your life.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:And the response I've gotten has been interesting.
Guest:You want to talk about it?
Guest:I'm like, I'm not your mom.
Guest:I'm not your nurse or your therapist.
Guest:But if you want to think about it and you want to take responsibility for it,
Guest:I think that you should, and then you can reach out to me and we'll discuss it.
Marc:So that's been the response?
Guest:And so far, I haven't heard any response.
Guest:I don't know if I will.
Marc:But you feel it off of you?
Guest:I feel...
Guest:That I'm being responsible.
Guest:Right.
Guest:In a time when there's possibility for me to be responsible.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There was no possibility.
Guest:You could tell people before and no one gave a shit.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I don't feel like...
Guest:These trials without due process are entirely appropriate.
Guest:I feel that it's appropriate that people have to take responsibility for the actions, but I do feel that some due process is in order.
Guest:There's a range of activities and you can't charge someone with a felony over a misdemeanor.
Guest:And there's some points where, you know, there has to be a balance here where this has to be heard in a rational format.
Guest:So...
Guest:This isn't just black and white.
Guest:And it can't be that every man who doesn't know what the fuck he's doing in life is a criminal.
Guest:Because a lot of people are just stupid.
Guest:I can say, because I've been single a lot of my life, that some men just are really incredibly stupid.
Guest:You go out with them, they bring you home for a goodnight kiss and grab your hand and put it on their penis.
Guest:A 50-year-old man.
Guest:And you're like, you know...
Guest:I don't think they're trying to sexually harass me.
Guest:I think they're just incredibly stupid and awkward.
Guest:Like, really?
Guest:That's your move?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Real graceful.
Guest:Sexy.
Guest:Just please don't ever call me again.
Guest:You're just too stupid to date.
Guest:You know, I don't know that I should ruin your whole life over that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I think you're just incredibly stupid.
Guest:And crass.
Guest:And crass.
Guest:Is that really what you think is a move?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You think that's the next thing after a kiss?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's just so...
Marc:Look, I tell you one thing, you know, everyone's going to be pretty well educated and pretty well boundaried.
Guest:I think that that's the key.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That I don't think anyone ever told anybody.
Marc:No, and also people got away with shit.
Guest:But be honest, my mother, father, no one gave me sex education.
Marc:No, I never got it.
Marc:And, you know, you got to be told no and you got to be, you know...
Guest:But if your parents, your mother's not telling you how to deal with your own period, no one's explaining to you how to use a pad or a Tampax.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How is anyone telling that kid how to go on a date?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Nobody's telling anybody anything.
Marc:No, everyone's watching porn.
Guest:Yes, and then pretending that we're a prudent and purient society.
Guest:It's absolutely absurd.
Guest:It's a lack of education as much as it's that everybody is an animal and should lose their job.
Guest:A lot of this is because no one knows what to do.
Guest:Children, teenagers are giving birth in bathroom stalls because no one is telling anybody anything.
Guest:The best thing that's coming out of this is education.
Marc:Yeah, absolutely.
Marc:Do you... Okay, so what movie are you working on now?
Guest:Well, I'm going to do a film with Bette Midler, a comedy.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Called The Allergist's Wife.
Guest:That's just an absolutely hilarious script.
Guest:Oh, that's great.
Guest:I'm looking at a variety.
Guest:I'm getting sent television series all the time.
Guest:I'm looking for the right one.
Guest:Just reading constantly.
Marc:What about Scorsese?
Marc:Something happening?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I did something with Scorsese.
Guest:We're just waiting for him to get finished editing it.
Guest:It's actually been a couple of years.
Guest:It's just, I don't know.
Guest:A full movie?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It's not the same kind of movie.
Guest:It's a whole different thing.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And so we're waiting.
Guest:I don't know what he's doing because he has so many projects going simultaneously that you can do something and then you never know when it's coming out.
Marc:That's weird about movies, huh?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Health is good.
Guest:I'm feeling fabulous.
Guest:I'm doing great.
Guest:Thanks for asking.
Guest:My kids are gorgeous and wonderful and smart and funny and nice.
Marc:And you seem great.
Marc:You were great in that show.
Marc:You're always great.
Marc:It's a real honor to talk to you.
Guest:Nice to meet you.
Guest:And I have one question for you.
Guest:How excited.
Guest:You're the guy that interviewed Obama.
Marc:Yeah, he was sitting right where you are.
Guest:Yeah, and how was that?
Marc:It's beautiful.
Guest:He's such a good man.
Marc:He's great.
Marc:He was so disarming and grounded and human.
Marc:It was a real trip.
Marc:Smart.
Marc:Very smart.
Marc:And I kept it off politics.
Marc:I tried to, because I talk about the people.
Guest:As a person.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And, you know, because, you know, he's so smart.
Marc:If you would have gotten into politics, you can get 20 minutes on something that's going to be very thorough.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So, but, you know, it's great.
Marc:I was very proud of that day.
Marc:It was really something special.
Guest:In my brief opportunities to talk to him and his wife, it has been my experience to feel what a good, good man.
Marc:You do.
Marc:Earnest and intellectual and right-minded.
Marc:And decent.
Marc:Speaking of that, some of your friends are kind of very political.
Marc:Yes, some of them are.
Marc:Do you just keep out of that?
Marc:No.
Marc:A couple of the dudes that you talk to are very publicly political.
Guest:Yeah, I feel – I'm very interested.
Guest:I find it to be an intriguing conversation, and I like discussing politics.
Guest:And, of course, I've had the wonderful – for working with AMFAR for so many years, I've had the wonderful opportunity to meet politicians on a global level and discuss political things.
Guest:We've changed laws.
Guest:We've worked a lot on a variety of different things and discussed a lot of different things.
Guest:No, I think it's a lively, active, intriguing conversation.
Marc:How do you talk to James Woods about politics?
Guest:Well, I mean, I do not discuss this particular political situation.
Guest:And I think at this point...
Guest:We have seen that not a lot of new laws, new rulings, and new things have actually been passed.
Guest:We listen to a lot of zingy ideas and tweets and Twitters, but you notice that not a lot of law is being made.
Marc:Well, they're undoing a lot of things, but they may not be doing.
Guest:Well, they try to undo a lot of things.
Guest:There's a lot of talk about undoing.
Guest:And there's a lot of talk about doing.
Guest:But there isn't a lot...
Guest:done yeah just a lot of a lot of uh shuffling paper and a lot of people getting angrier and more divided yes and a lot of shutting down and building up but in reality there's a lot of stalling and uh scary stalling scary stalling yeah and so i think if we really step back yeah and look at the big picture there's not a lot happening and
Marc:Well, something's happening culturally that I hope we can sort of re-wrangle at another time.
Guest:I like what's happening with these kids in Florida.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:And I think these kids in Florida are getting more done than anyone else.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I champion them.
Marc:Yeah, for sure.
Marc:Finally, you know, that is something that is happening is that there is a reaction.
Guest:There is.
Guest:And they are our future.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I am damn proud of them.
Marc:And they're waking up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that, above all else, is what I think is really happening, is that our future is awakening.
Marc:Thank God.
Marc:Nice talking to you.
Guest:And you.
Marc:So that was intense, right?
Marc:Good.
Marc:Engaged.
Marc:I learned things.
Marc:It was a real honor to be locked into conversation with Sharon Stone for an hour there.
Marc:I hope you enjoyed that.
Marc:I'll play a little guitar.
Marc:You like this.
Marc:A lot of people are enjoying this weird kind of tricky, the pedal stuff, the phase.
Marc:I'm using a Grand Orbiter.
Marc:No, what is it?
Marc:Yeah, Grand Orbiter, Earthquaker, and the Dispatch Master from Earthquaker.
Guest:it's kind of a trick but it does uh it is it is enchanting so i'll do a little of it so
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:guitar solo
Marc:Boomer lives.