Episode 891 - Heather Graham / Sebastian Maniscalco
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what-the-fuckers?
Marc:What-the-fuck buddies?
Marc:What-the-fuckineers?
Marc:What-the-fuck-nicks?
Marc:What-the-fuckadelics?
Marc:How's it going?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast, WTF.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:Happy Monday to you.
Marc:It's been quite a rough ride for the country over the last few days.
Marc:A lot of pain and chaos and horror.
Marc:Here's the deal.
Marc:I'm recording this a bit early because...
Marc:Because somebody needs to take a break.
Marc:Not me, I'm just going to plow ahead.
Marc:But my business partner and producer, Brendan McDonald, will be on vacation.
Marc:And we wanted to get these in the can.
Marc:So I'm taping this before the weekend.
Marc:So if anything happens over the weekend, if Washington, D.C.
Marc:is consumed in flames, or if California falls off of the...
Marc:The map into the ocean.
Marc:Whatever happens, if I'm not talking about it, it's because it hadn't happened yet.
Marc:And I can only hope that none of that happens.
Marc:Today on the show, I talked to Heather Graham.
Marc:And that was interesting.
Marc:Who doesn't love Heather Graham from Drugstore Cowboy?
Marc:Right?
Marc:Don't put the hat on the bed, man.
Marc:Don't put the hat on the bed.
Marc:Boogie Nights, Six Degrees of Separation.
Marc:She was in The Hangover recently, TV shows.
Marc:It was nice to talk to her.
Marc:It was nice to see her.
Marc:She has a new movie out that she wrote and directed.
Marc:It's called Half Magic.
Marc:Uh, she started it as well.
Marc:It'll be in theaters and, uh, VOD and digital HD this Friday, February 23rd.
Marc:I talked to her and then a few minutes, uh, I'm going to have Sebastian Montescalco come out here who wouldn't come out here.
Marc:Like I'm on stage.
Marc:I talked to Sebastian cause he, you know, he's got a book coming out and I love Sebastian.
Marc:He's a comic.
Marc:I see him.
Marc:I saw him, uh, the other night at the comedy store and,
Marc:Worked hard, got to get to where he is, and he's a unique stage being, that Sebastian.
Marc:Unique and funny.
Marc:So I always like people come back, they stop by, they got something they want to talk about, something they want to plug, if they've been on the show before, if they're a friend of mine, have them on, right?
Marc:Have them on, mix it up, and now it's good because, like I said, we're getting these in the can a little early.
Marc:It's nice to have a nice full show.
Marc:I'm not leaning on that.
Marc:I'll read an email or two.
Marc:I can give you some updates about things.
Marc:How are the cats enjoying the new house?
Marc:They're fine.
Marc:That buster kitten is a crazy motherfucker.
Marc:He figured out how to remove the toilet paper roll from the toilet paper rod and run around the house with it, basically papering the house and destroying it, shredding it.
Marc:So he's learning new things.
Marc:He might be part monkey because he...
Marc:He's just always lacking as a thumb, but he seems to be able to figure shit out and move stuff around.
Marc:He's an odd cat.
Marc:I've never had a cat that likes to be roughed up like this cat.
Marc:And I'm not being abusive.
Marc:It's just that when you pull a wild cat out of the wild because they showed up on your deck...
Marc:on your porch.
Marc:You don't know how they're going to turn out or what they're going to be.
Marc:I trapped the old cats.
Marc:The old guys are okay, but they're still skittish and they're weird.
Marc:You can't hold them.
Marc:Is that my fault?
Marc:Maybe it is my fault because I didn't try to do it when they were younger because they were out of their fucking minds.
Marc:But Buster was young enough and a little tame enough, so I was able to hold him, but he doesn't seem to like to be pet.
Marc:He doesn't know how to approach people or me specifically for affection.
Marc:And then when you do get him to take it, he likes to be scratched almost like a dog.
Marc:Like, you know, you scratch him hard on the stomach, on the back, on the head, and then he purrs and he gets into it.
Marc:It's almost like you have to show such intense, aggressive affection for him to just settle down and take it.
Marc:And you know what that makes that cat?
Marc:A lot like me.
Marc:See, I never believed that shit.
Marc:I thought you got these cats and they were genetically wired a certain way.
Marc:And I know you have an influence on them.
Marc:But all my cats have elements of me.
Marc:The three represent me at different emotional places and physical reactions.
Marc:So Sebastian Menescalco is here and his new book, Stay Hungry, comes out on February 27th.
Marc:You can pre-order it now.
Marc:If you want to hear the full conversation I did with Sebastian back on episode 304, you can hear that on Stitcher Premium and on Howl.
Marc:This is me and Sebastian.
Marc:How long?
Marc:I mean, it's been a long time since I talked to you in here.
Guest:Yeah, it's been six years ago I was here.
Marc:So like, because that's what's wild about it is that you didn't have nothing.
Marc:How'd I get on?
Marc:The show back.
Marc:I liked you.
Marc:I was interviewing comics, guys from the store and stuff.
Guest:Oh, man.
Marc:But the reason I think I interviewed you is interesting was because I didn't really know you.
Marc:And the first time, I'd see you at the store occasionally.
Marc:But then I saw you working over at that hotel.
Marc:Like you were waiting tables?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, Four Seasons.
Marc:At the Four Seasons, because I had a meeting over there, and I was like, that's a dude.
Marc:He's fucking working his ass off.
Marc:And this is like the shitty day gig.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And now you're one of the biggest comics in the country selling out everywhere, and you got a book about how to make it.
Marc:So-
Marc:it's it's credible that's what i'm saying they're like i can track it when i first had you on you didn't have much going on and i saw you working waiting tables at a hotel and uh and now there's a book there's a book stay hungry stay hungry yeah yeah that's uh that's been my moniker the whole time i've been out here just stay hungry for more
Marc:Right.
Marc:But it's just sort of interesting that, you know, you just you always kind of just did your own thing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I mean, it's because I remember seeing you like I could tell, like, you know, who your influences were and like, you know, where you were coming from.
Marc:But, you know, then it just got stronger and stronger.
Marc:The edge got more.
Marc:And then you weren't like other people.
Marc:You know, it just like I saw a lot of the evolution.
Marc:And then it just caught on.
Marc:When did you start to see the uptick?
Guest:I saw the uptick when I did a special called What's Wrong With People?
Guest:And I put a little small part in there about being Italian and going to Italian weddings.
Guest:And I was really cautious of whether to leave that in there or not because I didn't know if anybody was going to get it.
Guest:It was very specific to the Italian community.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I noticed that a lot of people connected with that.
Guest:And I'm like, oh, okay.
Guest:People are gravitating towards my humor in a way where they're relating to family.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not necessarily broad observational type humor.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like I went to Ross Dress for Less or I went to Chipotle.
Guest:Right.
Guest:They're relating to my father, my upbringing, the culture.
Guest:And I'm like, why don't I just talk about my upbringing and how nuts my father was.
Guest:For the next special.
Guest:Yeah, and I put a lot of family stuff in there.
Marc:In the second special.
Guest:In the third special, Aren't You Embarrassed, I started talking about my dad a little bit more.
Guest:And I noticed that I was having more fun on stage doing that.
Guest:And it was very personal to me.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:It was real.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The more personal I got, although it's not like I wasn't personal before.
Guest:It was just more like, hey, you ever go to da-da-da?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:This was more like, you know, I went home and my father... Right.
Guest:And then it started getting more like...
Marc:enjoyable to do stand-up for me not that i was enjoying it before but it was just like uh what else is my father what else could i go back and like uh talk about upbringing even grandparents mother right right the writing's different because you're not just sitting there you know wherever you write looking at people walking by like oh shoes are funny yeah you know you can go back and you know you have an emotional connection to it yeah is he still alive yeah
Guest:I'm still alive and there's still material to be mine there.
Guest:And it's not going to stop for a while.
Marc:God willing, it doesn't stop for a while.
Marc:How does he take it?
Marc:Because usually my stuff that I do about my dad is never... I never really put him in a great light.
Marc:So I hope that your relationship with your dad is better.
Marc:Because my dad gets mad at me sometimes when I talk about him.
Guest:My father is...
Guest:God, he loves being in the show.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:But he's always concerned about me writing new material, about me not resting on my success.
Guest:You always have to... He's pushing you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's always that voice in the back of my head going...
Guest:You know, don't give these people new material, you know, because a lot of comics kind of get into that rut of doing the same stuff over and over.
Guest:And, you know, I mean, you know, as well as I do that, you know, it's it's difficult to come up with those new bits.
Guest:And I'm in it right now.
Marc:like i just i dumped a special lesson a year ago and i gotta go do some dates and i'm like fuck you know you know what i mean it's like right now i'm sitting on about 25 new minutes i think and uh you know i got about a half hour somewhere that i didn't use in the special i gotta go find that
Guest:So do you completely abandon special material?
Marc:It just happens naturally.
Marc:It's weird because I could have toured on it a little more, I think, and it was really a good one.
Marc:I mean, that last one, too real on Netflix, was my best work, but I've been doing a special every year pretty much.
Marc:I did one for Epix and then one for Netflix before that.
Marc:And then I had one other one, then a half-hour one.
Marc:And CDs, too, or whatever.
Marc:But people don't listen.
Marc:That stuff shows up on Sirius.
Marc:But you got better odds doing material that you did on old CDs.
Marc:If you want to do that, then you do it with specials, because everyone watches the specials.
Marc:But no one listens to fucking CDs, really.
Marc:But, yeah, it just happens naturally.
Marc:It's like after the special airs, my brain just is kind of done with it.
Marc:I don't even know how it goes together anymore, and I was working the fuck out of it.
Marc:Why?
Marc:How about you?
Guest:I'll pop in a few other bits from a special that I like to do.
Guest:Oh, in the new one.
Guest:uh yeah like if i if a special airs i can't completely abandon that material in that special i'll pepper it in because of you or because you just don't have the new time yet uh because like you like doing them or you like you just didn't you know you're waiting for the new shit waiting for the new shit to develop yeah so i gotta i gotta do some older stuff yeah and they don't mind um i you don't know
Guest:I think they're okay with it.
Guest:I don't want to go to a city, right?
Guest:This is my biggest fear as a comedian.
Guest:I don't want to do Chicago and then come back in a year and people spend hard-earned money and they go, same thing as before.
Guest:That's my biggest fear as a comedian.
Marc:You can't do it.
Marc:You can't do it now.
Marc:You can't because...
Marc:It's my fear, too.
Marc:You don't want to get off stage and they're like, yeah, I heard that one.
Marc:It's like, the fuck?
Marc:What about the other?
Marc:I mean, that's really what you're saying.
Marc:So even if you're putting in a few bits, you're going to run into the possibility of one douchebag going like, boy, you couldn't write the whole new hour, huh?
Marc:And if you're like me, if you're like most comedians, that's all you're going to hear.
Marc:That's all that's going to be in your head.
Marc:No matter how good the show went, no matter how many people said, I love seeing that bit.
Marc:I saw it on TV, but I like seeing it in person.
Marc:You're like, that motherfucker.
Guest:Yeah, the one guy.
Marc:Yeah, the one guy.
Marc:It's the worst.
Marc:No, but you can't.
Marc:I think back in the day, they...
Marc:it wasn't as uh you know everyone didn't see everything so immediately you know and the guy who tours on the same hour for a decade just they can't exist anymore yeah but they did for years kind of but people get tired of it well uh you've been doing this longer than i have right so were you able to get away with that say when you first started uh you know going to st louis and
Marc:Well, here's the thing with me is that no one knew who the fuck I was.
Marc:So anytime I thought people knew my shit, it got to a point where I'm like, what people am I talking about?
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:It's like I wasn't selling tickets.
Marc:So if I go into a place and I didn't build my career properly, I never stayed on the road long enough because I'd alienate people and I'd go do a TV thing or whatever, but...
Marc:It wasn't until, you know, a couple years into this that I started to pull people.
Marc:But I always thought that everyone knew my shit.
Marc:And they just don't.
Marc:But now they do.
Marc:Because they can, you know, Netflix is fucking everywhere.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, it's like, it's gonna be, you go do a show, like I'm gonna go do five shows in Europe.
Marc:It's gonna be, like, I would say that probably...
Marc:75, 80% of every room that I played to will have seen my last special.
Marc:Why wouldn't they have?
Guest:Yeah, but don't you think people are in the room that maybe has never seen you before?
Guest:Like they're bringing people- I know, but that one guy, that one guy, Sebastian.
Guest:is that why we're doing this for the one guy to please the one guy and it's us and we can never quite do it oh god you make up these people in your head right oh yeah all the time all the time like even when i'm on stage going man like i didn't get a good reaction on that has everybody heard that you know like i right right see that's the that is that's the only problem with doing the old bits
Marc:Is that.
Marc:And that's what I'm up against, too.
Marc:Because they probably, it's probably not the reason, but just by nature, you're already thinking that going in.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know that this bit is, you know, you know the bit was on TV.
Marc:So there's part of you that's going like, all right, most of you have probably seen this, but...
Guest:You're saying that's the undertone that you have.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:So you cannot commit to an old bit like it's the first time you're saying it because you're in your head thinking.
Guest:Just a bit that's been on TV already.
Guest:What, do you?
Guest:Can you?
Guest:I have done it that way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I have done it the other way where I'm like, fuck it.
Guest:I'm going to do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the reaction is a lot better when I say, fuck it.
Guest:I'm just going to go and do it rather than not edit myself.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:So it's just a mental discipline.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This is what I've learned in comedy.
Guest:I've been working out with 19 years and it's been solid.
Guest:It's all I'd think about is stand up and go out and gig and this and that.
Guest:But last year I wore myself down at a bone.
Guest:I said this year, you know what?
Guest:It's about balance.
Guest:It's about enjoying life a little bit more rather than come home, unpack, get back out there, keep the grind going.
Guest:I want to live life a little bit more.
Guest:And you got a kid now.
Guest:And I got a kid now.
Guest:And that kind of changes a lot of things and you want to participate in
Guest:the upbringing of the child rather than yeah and it timed out for you it seemed like the arc of uh your popularity enables you to not you know make yourself so fucking crazy yeah yeah i mean that's a point now where i could you know like let's take the summer off and yeah we got three weddings to go to uh i don't want my wife going to these weddings anymore like i passed away you know like she's got to show up alone
Guest:so uh i want to go with her to these yeah yeah and as as you do that too you mine material out of those life experiences of course so like how long did it take you to write the book three years uh i started uh writing the book with a writer yeah who's helping me out and then um and a guy who that you knew or they set you up with a guy that i interviewed and and and well that the publisher said we got a guy
Guest:Yeah, you go out and interview these writers.
Guest:Sure, like a TV deal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then we didn't really get along creatively.
Guest:No bad blood.
Guest:It was just one of those things.
Guest:It came to a wall, and then I had to go find another writer.
Guest:So that's why it kind of took a while.
Guest:And listen, man, when I first started writing this book, I didn't.
Guest:I didn't think I have a book.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I say in the book that I'm not a politician or I'm not a sports figure.
Guest:I didn't get beaten as a kid and come through this.
Guest:I didn't think I had a story to tell.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I did after 20 years of being in this and having these experience happen to me.
Guest:I formulated a nice little book kind of about the last 20 years of my life.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And I'm proud of it.
Guest:It's just everything from the jobs I had to take, selling satellite dishes in the ghetto at Crenshaw and Martin Luther King Boulevard.
Guest:Was that before or after the Four Seasons?
Guest:That was during.
Guest:So I worked for Four Seasons, 1998 to 2005.
Guest:And then I had to get a...
Guest:Job in between there because I hated waiting on people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was getting sick of it.
Guest:So I started working at a kiosk selling dish network satellite dishes in a mall, in an urban mall.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I went into debt.
Wow.
Marc:But that was the choice?
Guest:Like, you know, I mean, like, there wasn't another job?
Guest:You're a smart guy.
Guest:I needed flexibility.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I disallowed flexibility.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And when you hear that if you sell a satellite dish, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You get 100 bucks per dish.
Guest:I'm thinking, how hard is it to sell...
Guest:TV subscriptions.
Guest:Basically, everybody needs cable or whatever.
Guest:I'm thinking five, six a day, 600 a day, five days a week.
Guest:That's three grand.
Guest:That's 180 grand a year.
Guest:I'm in.
Guest:I'm in.
Guest:And I was in a struggle, man.
Guest:No, I wasn't selling at all.
Guest:What I used to do is there was a TV in the kiosk, so I used to record programs that might attract people to my kiosk.
Guest:In the urban mall.
Guest:In the urban mall.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I recorded this Michael Jackson Motown special, and I played that on a loop.
Guest:So I had about 85 people dancing, doing the moonwalk around my kiosk, but nobody buying it.
Guest:The damn salad dish.
Guest:It was like a dance party in the middle of the mall.
Guest:So I did that for six to eight months, and I went into debt.
Guest:$10,000 I owed.
Guest:And I was on the phone with my father and mother at one point, and they detected that there was some problems.
Guest:They hear it right away, don't they?
Guest:Right away.
Guest:Yeah, hi.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:What is it, money?
Yeah.
Guest:My dad jumped on the phone.
Guest:He's like, what's the problem?
Guest:I said, Dad, you know, I'm in 10 grand in debt.
Guest:And he bailed me out.
Guest:He paid my credit card bill.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I paid him back every cent.
Guest:I would call him and I would go, how much do I owe you?
Guest:And you would just hear like papers.
Guest:And he goes, I got it right here.
Guest:You owe me $7,800.
Guest:He added to this cent how much.
Yeah.
Guest:was there a vig on it no no no vig no vig it was just a straight loan um but he i paid him back and i'm glad that i paid him back because it taught me that you know you don't nothing in life you kind of escape out of it's well yeah and also it's it's it's nice to be able to to pay your parents back because like usually like if you really wanted to you could probably get off
Marc:But there's something about just take it.
Marc:My mom floated me some money when I was going through a divorce.
Marc:She wouldn't take it back.
Marc:She said, you're gonna get it anyway.
Guest:No, your mind's a lot different.
Guest:My dad's like, you need to pay me back.
Guest:Because you might not get it.
Guest:I need it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I don't know if mine's going to hold up.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what other stories you got in there?
Marc:Like just stuff about shit gigs and all that kind of stuff?
Guest:You know, like what I had to do.
Guest:There's a chapter about me working, doing these odd jobs.
Guest:Even before I came out here, I was Captain Morgan.
Guest:On TV?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I used to go to bars dressed up as Captain Morgan.
Guest:It always amazes me to hear these stories.
Marc:There's a certain type of personality.
Marc:You would never do this?
Marc:I would never think to do it.
Marc:No.
Marc:No matter how bad it got, I don't know if I'd think to do it, like Big Jay Oakerson, he was like a ghetto Elmo.
Marc:He'd go out as Elmo, but was it not real Elmo?
Marc:There must have been some part of you thought it was gonna be a performance.
Guest:uh it was good money yeah and again flexibility and they didn't really know who you were couldn't see you were in the mustache mustache hat i had a parrot on my shoulder real pale fake i had a hook and i used to go in to these bars and these were kind of seedy bars where uh back in chicago before i came out here i was doing these like odd jobs worked at honey baked ham glazing ham
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Doing temp work.
Guest:I graduated college at 24 with a Bachelor of Science degree in Corporate Communications, and I ended up working at United Airlines Employees Credit Union as a temporary employee because I didn't get a job out of college.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I was the guy that went to the work fair in like a wedding suit, you know, a silver wedding suit walking around.
Guest:It looked like I was collecting money rather than handing out resumes.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So nobody called.
Guest:And I ended up coming home and working at night at a place called The Living Room in Schaumburg Waiting Tables.
Guest:Schaumburg.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That improv is an improv.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right there.
Guest:It was an unbelievable fine dining place.
Guest:It was a place to be in Chicago in 1994, 95, 96.
Guest:And I worked there up in the restaurant.
Guest:And then during the day, I would work at the Employees Credit Union in the back in the data entry department.
Guest:Of United.
Guest:Of United Airlines Employees Credit Union.
Guest:And you're like, I got to get an outfit in there.
Guest:I gotta be Captain Morgan.
Guest:I gotta get out of here.
Marc:I need a ship.
Marc:I gotta get out of here on a pirate ship.
Marc:Wow, man.
Marc:So you didn't come out here until your mid-20s?
Guest:Well, I was 24.
Guest:You hit the wall with Captain Morgan, huh?
Guest:After Captain Morgan, I said, I gotta leave town.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So 1998, I came out here and I moved to the St.
Guest:James Apartments on Hollywood and Fuller right down the street from Running Canyon.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I came out here with 10 grand in my pocket and I decided that I was going to wait and get a really nice waiting.
Guest:Table job.
Guest:I don't want to work at Mel's Diner.
Guest:I didn't want to work at any of those kind of yeah, you know, whatever you come home with $53 I wanted to work dirty apron dirty apron.
Guest:Yeah Yeah, so it took me six seven weeks to get a job out here in LA and I kind of ran out of money I actually had some grand scheme that I was gonna go to Las Vegas and
Guest:because I still had the United Airlines benefits.
Guest:So I would take a little jaunt to Las Vegas, see if I could gamble and make some money.
Guest:Playing blackjack, hoping... Were you good at it?
Guest:Did you have an angle?
Guest:No, no, there was no angle.
Guest:It was just like, let's try to make some bread here.
Guest:It's a quick break.
Guest:money in Vegas yeah oh he's good great plan great plan Captain Morgan Vegas you're seeing it's kind of how my mind works yes satellite dishes and move these 600 a day 600 a day it's satellite dishes all right buddy well I'm happy for your success and the book sounds fun
Guest:Book is Stay Hungry.
Guest:It comes out February 27th.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's also an audio book.
Guest:I wanted to put my voice to the words, too.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Why not?
Guest:Have you done that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You can punch it up.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I don't know what your experience was.
Guest:It was long.
Guest:I went in there and I left and I go, I can't read.
Guest:I'm like, you know, to read out loud, 256 pages.
Guest:And they're on you too.
Guest:It's like you forgot the, uh, yeah.
Guest:Can you go back and do, uh, you just, you didn't.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That guy was, uh, you said could instead of would.
Guest:I was putting in words that weren't even on the page.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Riffing a little bit.
Guest:Yeah, and it was one of the hardest things I've done.
Marc:Yeah, because the problem with it is by the end, your tone is a little cranky.
Marc:You start off funny, and then by the end of the book, you're like, I gotta get the fuck out of here.
Marc:I've been here for five fucking hours.
Marc:Sorry if it's not Chipper anymore.
Guest:I know, man.
Guest:But you got through it?
Guest:I got through it.
Guest:And you're going to tour on the book?
Guest:The book, we're in the middle of a tour right now.
Guest:We're going to take the summer off, and then we're going to start back up in the fall.
Guest:Take summer off, do fun things with your family.
Guest:Three weddings to go to, one in Sicily.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, we're going to take a... Have you been there?
Guest:Yeah, I went with my father, actually, six years ago.
Guest:Is he Sicilian?
Guest:Yeah, he was born in Sheffaloo.
Guest:He came here when he was 15 years old.
Guest:Real Italian?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:So ever since we went, he's been back every year since we... Oh, so if you didn't pay the money back...
Guest:We wouldn't have went.
Guest:There have been problems.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Good, man.
Marc:Well, have fun.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:All right, so that book is called Stay Hungry.
Marc:I like Sebastian.
Marc:Good guy, funny guy, worked hard, and the book is him.
Marc:It's him.
Marc:It's him in a book.
Marc:You know how that goes.
Marc:Yes, the new garage is a garage, but it's going to be more than a garage.
Marc:It's going to be a place where if my mother needs to live there, she can live there.
Marc:So that'll be interesting.
Marc:Mom, you got to sit outside.
Marc:Albert Brooks is here.
Marc:Mom, could you get out of your house and let me interview Albert Brooks?
Marc:No, it's a garage, but it's a nicer garage is what I'm implying.
Marc:That's all I'm saying.
Marc:And I think that my mom could sit in on the conversation I have with Albert Brooks if that ever happens.
Marc:Heather Graham.
Marc:Heather Graham is here, and I was excited to talk to her.
Marc:I watched her new movie that she wrote, directed, and starred in, Half Magic.
Marc:I've watched many of the movies she's been in.
Marc:It was nice of her to come by, and this is me talking to her.
Marc:All right?
Marc:This is me talking.
Marc:to Heather Graham right now.
Marc:I don't think I've ever done a podcast before.
Marc:You've done radio.
Guest:Yeah, I've done radio.
Guest:You're right.
Guest:I've gone to like serious radio and stuff.
Guest:It's not like, you know, the real deal, cool podcast.
Marc:The real deal.
Marc:I feel like this is like a cool... You haven't gone to somebody's house to do media?
Guest:No, but I think that makes people probably more relaxed, right?
Guest:Because you're not like in a...
Marc:i think i something happens you know you're surrounded by all this stuff and yeah but yeah people i think do relax it doesn't seem real it doesn't seem like um it does seem real though i feel like that's it it seems very real right okay but right but after a point you're like are we recording this is this yeah are you recording this yeah okay i am recording natural well you have an action figure
Marc:That was a, it's actually, I would assume, it's a piece of art.
Marc:It's the only one that exists.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:Some guy made that, made a Marc Maron action figure because he thought I needed one.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yeah, there's a lot of- You do.
Guest:You deserve one.
Marc:Well, I appreciate that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I actually saw you, I think.
Guest:I did see you.
Guest:I saw the comedy, where were the comedy stories?
Guest:I went to go see Chris D'Elia and you were performing.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:I was there.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, you saw me?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:But I didn't meet you.
Guest:I mean, you're famous.
Marc:I'm kind of famous.
Guest:And I've also watched your show.
Marc:You have?
Guest:Every episode of Glow.
Guest:Oh, that's fun, right?
Guest:Yeah, it was really fun.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:Because I never know if people know me, if there's familiarity, because I know you.
Guest:And then I listened to some of your podcasts.
Guest:Just to get ready?
Guest:Yeah, it was just, well, some of my best friends love it.
Guest:They were actually like, you should try to get on his podcast because he has the best podcast.
Guest:And then I started listening to it.
Guest:It was really, actually, I thought you'd be more, have more jokes, but you're just really interested in people, like asking them questions.
Marc:Yeah, no, it's like the joke thing, like that wears thin after a while.
Guest:Yeah, no, it's cool.
Guest:I learned so much about Richard Jenkins from your podcast about him.
Guest:Like you really got into, I'm kind of like that with people too.
Guest:Like I like asking people questions.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, you seem like that kind of person.
Guest:Yeah, I can interview you.
Marc:You could, if you really want to.
Marc:But I think sometimes asking people questions is a good way to keep them from going too far.
Guest:Asking you questions.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:But what about you?
Guest:If you're genuinely interested.
Guest:I feel like you're genuinely interested.
Guest:I am.
Guest:I think I am, too.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:I could ask a lot of questions.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Is that generally what you do?
Marc:When you work with directors, are you the kind of person that's sort of like, what do you want to do?
Guest:Well, usually I kind of get into like psychologically analyzing the character.
Guest:I'm like, why do you think the character is doing this?
Guest:And what do you think the motivation?
Guest:So I get into the questions about the psychology of the characters.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not as much like.
Marc:With directors?
Guest:But I can ask people like if I just met you, I'd probably just ask you a lot of questions.
Guest:All right, go ahead.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:What made you become a comedian?
Marc:Well, I think when I was a kid, I always liked comedians.
Marc:They always seemed to make sense of the world somehow.
Marc:Because if a good comic, it kind of disarms a lot of your fears and makes sense of things that seem complicated.
Marc:So when I was a little kid watching comics, I'd be like, oh, yeah, that guy knows what's happening.
Guest:He's got a handle on it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was more about having a handle on reality.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like they weren't just like, you know, falling all the time.
Guest:It's kind of spiritual too.
Guest:Cause if you can have a sense of humor about life, then you sort of like, you're not in like total despair, right?
Marc:Despair, hopelessness, dread.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I guess is that, I guess that's what spirituality is supposed to do.
Marc:Give you a little hope.
Guest:Yeah, I think it feels just like you can detach and look at it with like, oh, my God, this is all kind of funny.
Guest:Not like this is horrific.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It doesn't always hold.
Marc:I mean, you could do it.
Guest:It doesn't always hold.
Marc:You could do it for a while.
Marc:But then one day you'd be like, oh, God, it's not working.
Marc:The new movie that your movie, it has a spiritual bent.
Yeah.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:Well, I wanted to, well, kind of what we're talking about.
Guest:I took some things that really depressed me, and I'm like, how can I find humor in this?
Guest:And it's all kind of slightly based on true stories.
Guest:Is it?
Marc:Yeah, because I didn't know that the candle thing was real.
Marc:My girlfriend said that there are people, that the candle thing is real.
Guest:Yes, well, it started, there's a store in New York called The Enchantments.
Guest:Have you ever been to Enchantments?
Guest:i don't i feel like i may how long has it been there it's more girly like i'm sure probably lots of guys aren't going there but you know you can buy candles and you can wish for love or you wish for you know great job or money right yeah so i had some girlfriends for candles yeah we would get together it wasn't all only candles we would just talk about what do we want and so it was these women and also moby moby was in it too yeah and so then he gave me that guy's nothing but trouble that moby
Guest:I know.
Guest:He's amazing.
Guest:He's so generous.
Guest:He gave us a lot of music for the movie.
Marc:So you're full on.
Marc:You're in this shit.
Guest:Well, I do a lot of yoga.
Guest:I meditate.
Guest:I do transcendental meditation.
Guest:You do TM?
Guest:Well, like, you know how you look to comedy to heal your pain?
Guest:I look to, like, new age things.
Marc:Well, it's also my job.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And it's the way I think about things.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, it is my craft, my chosen craft.
Marc:But I wonder if I really look at it to heal my pain.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah, I tend to look more towards food.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I mean, food works.
Guest:I definitely have done that in the past.
Marc:But it's not good.
Marc:It's not spiritual.
Marc:I tend to avoid the spiritual by engaging in things outside of me to try to make myself feel better.
Guest:Well, you're making people laugh and you're being honest.
Guest:Well, that's good.
Guest:I'm glad people get a lot out of it.
Guest:I think that's cool.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But in terms of personal, spiritual, psychic health.
Guest:You don't have good psychic health.
Guest:That's what you're saying.
Marc:Not great.
Yeah.
Guest:you need to do some more sound baths maybe I know I need I need to go to the sound bath at Moby's do you meditate I don't okay but people have been telling me to tell me about TM though so you're in you bought your mantra and everything well yeah that is kind of weird about TM they do make you pay for the class but I mean I learned it like when I worked with David Lynch on Twin Peaks on the original Twin Peaks how did you meet David Lynch originally
Guest:You know, I auditioned for a commercial he was doing for like Calvin Klein Obsession Perfume.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:He did commercials, I guess?
Marc:He did.
Guest:I mean, I guess he was making money.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And then I guess Benicio Del Toro was in my commercial before he ever started doing like acting a lot.
Marc:At all?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, yeah.
Guest:So, I met David Lynch and then he put me in Twin Peaks in the original.
Guest:Right.
Guest:The original one.
Guest:That's actually how I became friends with Moby.
Guest:That far back?
Guest:No, because he was a fan.
Guest:So, when I ran into him, he was like, I love Twin Peaks.
Guest:And so, then he introduced himself.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And that was pretty recently?
Yeah.
Guest:No, that was like 10 years ago, maybe.
Marc:Oh, so original Moby.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like a first flush Moby, the big record Moby.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, maybe.
Guest:No, because that was maybe more like 15 years ago.
Guest:Oh, was it that long ago?
Marc:It's flying by.
Guest:Yeah, it really is.
Marc:So David Lynch hipped you to TM?
Guest:Yeah, I just was like, he told me to go to meditate.
Marc:How old were you then?
Guest:Like 20?
Guest:I was like 20.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Something like 20.
Marc:Were you all, why'd he suggest it to you at that time?
Guest:Well, I think I was unhappy because I think that's a hard age when you're just moving out of the house from your parents.
Guest:You're like, who am I?
Guest:Why am I depressed?
Guest:I didn't really know how to cook, so I just used to eat a lot of candy bars.
Guest:I'd be like, okay, I won't eat dinner, so I'll just buy eight candy bars.
Guest:Which kind of candy bar?
Guest:It was unhealthy.
Guest:Reese's, Twix, Kit Kat.
Guest:Those are the best ones.
Guest:Those are all the best ones.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Reese's are the best, for sure.
Marc:Yeah, but you only take so much of them.
Guest:Kit Kat, Twix, yeah, Crunchy.
Guest:I like me too.
Guest:Caramel.
Marc:Yeah, those are my three.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Occasionally I'll do M&Ms.
Guest:I used to eat so unhealthy that I would like eat muffins.
Guest:I'd be like, oh, brand muffins are healthy.
Guest:Like I didn't think like that's cake really.
Marc:I still do that sometimes.
Marc:I still eat pasta.
Guest:I would eat muffins, pasta and candy bars.
Marc:But those three, those are the best ones in my book.
Marc:Twix, Kit Kats and the Reese's.
Guest:Yes, but meditating helped me not eat so badly.
Guest:And then there was a frozen yogurt place that I loved.
Marc:But that was your pre-spirituality spirituality.
Guest:Yeah, I would just be like, how can I gorge on sugar, get a high, and then I get a low, and then I'm just like thinking about tomorrow.
Guest:What can I buy tomorrow?
Marc:Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:How do I stock up?
Marc:No ice cream?
Marc:Not an ice cream?
Guest:No, I did used to eat pints of like, you know, Reese's Peanut Butter Cup.
Guest:Peanut Butter Cup ice cream?
Guest:Or cookie dough.
Guest:Cookie dough or Reese's Peanut Butter Cup?
Guest:Yeah, Peanut Butter Cup is the best.
Guest:Peanut Butter Cup is the best.
Marc:The Ben and Jerry's peanut butter cup.
Guest:But it's disgusting.
Guest:You can really only do that when you're like 18, 19, 20.
Marc:I did it into my 40s.
Guest:Did you?
Marc:Yeah, I did pints.
Marc:I was still doing pints.
Guest:So how do you stay like this?
Marc:I'm done with it now.
Guest:Okay, yeah.
Marc:I don't do it now.
Guest:Okay, yeah.
Marc:I'm barely hanging on now.
Guest:It makes you feel terrible.
Marc:I had a biscuit yesterday and I want to kill myself.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Well, it's good though, right?
Marc:And a piece of olive oil cake.
Guest:That sounds good.
Guest:That sounds like kind of gourmet though.
Guest:Not as bad.
Marc:It was a little bit.
Marc:It was fancy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So David Lynch sees this kid gorging, basically bulimic.
Guest:No.
Guest:Well, I never threw up.
Guest:I think I was more like, let me starve myself and then eat candy bars.
Guest:Because throwing up was too gross for me.
Guest:I just watched actually the Jane Fonda documentary and she talks about being bulimic, which is so interesting.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Growing up was gross to you?
Guest:um is that what you said growing up no throwing up throwing up was too gross right so i wouldn't go to the bulimia aspect but i would go to like okay i won't eat a regular dinner and i'll just eat eight candy bars right right right yeah yeah yeah for the whole day you just wait the whole day maybe i eat like a bran muffin
Marc:brand muffin in the morning eight candy bars or like i go to get frozen yogurt i get frozen yogurt for like lunch and frozen yogurt for dinner sure sure ice cream but it's not ice cream right in your mind not ice cream remember there was a whole craze that was like everything had to be no non-fat but it was full of sugar like tasty delight and you just be like oh it's non-fat i can eat as much as i want and then you'd be like why do i feel so crazy right now because i just ate like so much sugar you get all bloated yeah yeah all right so david so lynch goes we gotta get you go level you off
Guest:No, I think I just was like intrigued because I mean, I grew up in suburbia.
Guest:There weren't a lot of creative types around in Agora.
Marc:Oh, here.
Guest:See, now it's cool.
Guest:But when I was there, I feel like.
Guest:Is it cool?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I feel like some people live out there and commute.
Guest:Like, I don't know.
Guest:I mean, it's nicer.
Guest:There's like a movie theater.
Marc:Just because like you kind of know people who live out there.
Guest:It's pretty.
Guest:It is pretty, but it's like suburbia.
Guest:There wasn't a lot of cultural, there weren't cultural things going on.
Marc:That's where you were born here in California?
Guest:No, my dad was in the FBI and he was transferred around a lot.
Guest:He's from Philadelphia.
Guest:My mom's from New Jersey.
Guest:Is he still around?
Guest:Yeah, he's still alive.
Marc:Have you talked to him about what's going on?
Guest:Not a lot, no.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:You haven't called them, like, what is up?
Marc:What do you think about this?
Marc:The FBI, they're going down.
Marc:They haven't done it.
Guest:He's not real.
Guest:I mean, he's more conservative because they're quite religious, you know?
Marc:Sure, but still, I mean, that agency had an integrity to it.
Marc:It's taken a lot of hits.
Marc:But so, you know, you don't have to talk to him about that.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Well, I was born in Wisconsin.
Guest:Then I lived outside of Washington, D.C.
Guest:in Virginia.
Guest:And then I moved to L.A.
Guest:when I was nine.
Marc:That was when he was at the home office.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:The bureau.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then he was out in the field.
Guest:And then he was in the federal building on Wilshire.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So he was an FBI agent your whole life.
Marc:He retired from the FBI.
Marc:He got his pension from the FBI.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:Was there points where you were like, what are you doing?
Guest:It just sounded cool.
Guest:It is cool.
Guest:But he really just had a normal... He just would leave in the morning, come home at night, and he had a gun and a bulletproof vest.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And you're like, this is cool.
Guest:I get to impress people.
Guest:But it's like it didn't... He didn't really talk about what he was doing.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:So it just seemed like, oh, he goes to work in the morning and comes home at night.
Marc:Yeah, with his gun and his bulletproof vest.
Marc:And you imagine you would have heard if something went down with either of those things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I know he worked on terrorism for a while.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that sounds interesting.
Marc:You've never like sat down and had conversations.
Guest:No, they're not allowed to really talk about it.
Guest:I think once when he was retired, I think I said, well, do you have any stories?
Guest:He was like, well, once we intercepted this shipment of these weapons that would explode in people's bodies, like they would hit, you know.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:So he's like, I was really glad that we caught that and stopped them from, you know, nailing that to the other terrorists.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And what'd your mom do in the, in the childhood years?
Guest:Well, my mom was, um, she was a teacher before she got married and then she was a housewife and she was writing children's books and poetry.
Guest:And, um, so then like as we grew up, yes.
Guest:Oh, that's great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you could hold up your mom's children's book.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I didn't bring it with me, but I have a younger sister.
Marc:How much younger?
Guest:She's a year and a half younger.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Marc:She's in show business?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:How's she doing?
Guest:She's an actress, and I think she got recently into producing and stuff.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Like you getting into directing, producing?
Guest:I guess, yeah.
Marc:Writing?
Guest:Yes, yes, yes.
Marc:Why would both of you go into this miserable fucking business?
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:Because I guess we moved to LA.
Guest:The proximity to LA just draws you in.
Marc:It does, I guess.
Guest:Well, for me, I was an awkward nerd.
Guest:So I'm like, how can I distinguish myself and get a pension?
Guest:You were nerdy?
Guest:Yeah, I was quite nerdy.
Guest:And I wasn't really thought of as attractive.
Guest:When was this?
Guest:This was when I was in high school.
Guest:And I was kind of tomboyish.
Guest:And then I went on auditions.
Guest:And they'd be like, OK, you're auditioning for the Pretty Cheerleader.
Guest:And I'm like, I couldn't get on the cheerleading squad.
Guest:And nobody's asking me out, really.
Guest:So I was like, this is fun.
Marc:Right.
Guest:You're still this other world where people think I'm like this cool, pretty person.
Marc:And that's where it started?
Marc:That's how it started?
Marc:So you're growing up in Agora Hills.
Marc:How do you make, how do you like go, I'm going to do show business and figure out how to get in it?
Guest:Well, basically, okay, if you want to go back to when it started, I think I used to like to make up fantasy games in my head and play it with the kids in the neighborhood.
Guest:And I'd be like, you guys are vampires and I'm this character and you're that and let's all do this game.
Guest:And then I think I went to high school and I got really awkward and nerdy and I used to audition for the plays.
Guest:And that was like my area of like getting attention.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:So you were like, you know, full on?
Guest:Drama geek.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So you lived over there in the drama department.
Guest:So when I moved to Agora, I started to get the lead in the plays.
Marc:Do musicals?
Guest:Yeah, but I was a terrible singer, but somehow I still had enough showbiz personality that I got away with having not a very good singing voice.
Guest:I started in Damn Yankees.
Guest:I was Lola in Damn Yankees when I was like 14.
Marc:And that's where it started.
Guest:I mean, that was like a highlight of my childhood.
Marc:But you were one of those kids who was withdrawn or nerdy or not completely socially awkward.
Marc:And you came to life in the drama department.
Guest:I was like smart.
Guest:I was in these advanced placement classes.
Guest:So if you're in that, then you kind of just travel around with that group of advanced placement.
Guest:You're in advanced math.
Guest:You're in advanced English.
Marc:Do you remember those people in your group?
Guest:Yeah, I do.
Marc:Just, you know, just very smart kids who, you know, there seems to be you're looked at differently by the rest of the school.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You're not as cool as like a jock or like a cheerleader or the pop, you know, doesn't end well for them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, then it's like, yeah, then you're like, yeah, the nerds are really the cool.
Marc:Have you gone to reunions?
Guest:No, I haven't.
Guest:But I have one friend still from high school.
Guest:She's actually coming to our premiere.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Really good friends, yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's nice.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So, okay.
Marc:But still, how do you cross the bridge?
Marc:Do you go to college?
Guest:I did.
Guest:I went to UCLA for a few years.
Guest:But I actually started working when I was in high school.
Guest:I was in License to Drive with Corey Haim and Corey Feldman.
Guest:Oh, poor... I know.
Guest:It's like all these stories that have come out.
Guest:Well, Haim is dead, right?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:He kind of went Christian and drugs.
Marc:Is that what happened?
Marc:Yes.
Guest:He, I know that he was, I mean, I guess at the time I was working with him, they got, they were doing drugs, but I was like very naive and I didn't really, you know, but you know, they've talked about it and they were doing drugs and Corey Haim died.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But much later, I mean, much later.
Guest:And then, you know, Corey Feldman has come out with, you know, talking about, I know it's so disturbing.
Guest:Like I was working with him during that time and I had no idea that was happening.
Guest:It's so disturbing.
Yeah.
Marc:You think you would have known, but I guess that's what a lot of people are saying about a lot of things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, they just seem, like, cooler.
Guest:Like, I'm, like, I'm from this suburban high school, and they've been in, like, Stand By Me and Lucas, and I'm, like, they seem, like, so sophisticated, and I guess maybe I kind of knew they were doing drugs, and, like, Corey Haim was dating, like, La La Zappa, and I just felt like I was, like, this...
Marc:La La Zappa.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I feel like I was like this awkward, like normal person looking at these stars.
Guest:So I didn't think like, oh, something terrible is going on for them.
Guest:I just thought, oh, I'm one of these amazing stars.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So yeah.
Marc:And you were afforded the distance because you weren't in.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I wasn't in this.
Guest:I wasn't in the circle.
Guest:I was like, I am a normal person acting with movie stars.
Guest:And I didn't think like, oh, wow, there are these people that are leading these.
Guest:You know, I think they were both emancipated from their parents.
Guest:And I knew that there's.
Guest:What does that mean?
Guest:That means that you don't need a guardian on set.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And it also means that I think your parents, I don't know if it's that they're incapable or just that you don't want to have to have a guardian.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:So they sign the thing.
Marc:You're emancipated.
Marc:Freed.
Guest:You're freed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You don't have to go to the school.
Marc:That's interesting, though, because I get that feeling when I'm on GLOW.
Marc:I'm looking at Alison Brie during scenes going like, oh, I'm working with a real actress.
Yeah.
Guest:She's probably like being impressed by you, right?
Marc:We do all right together.
Marc:We got a good thing on screen.
Guest:Yeah, it's fun.
Guest:It's great to see a show with so many women.
Marc:No kidding.
Marc:A lot of them.
Marc:I've never been around that many women in my life.
Guest:You're like the only guy on that show, practically.
Guest:I'm the cranky sexist at the center.
Guest:You must love it, right?
Guest:You get all these women.
Guest:You're like, I get to be the only man with all these women.
Marc:Well, you know, I try to just be one of the girls.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right, so you got it.
Marc:But how do you...
Marc:Like get an agent and stuff when you're in high school.
Marc:How does that happen?
Marc:Your parents have got to be in on it.
Guest:Well, I think you have to have a certain degree of like ambitious, like unhappiness where you're just like, oh, you feel like I need, you know, to do this.
Guest:And then you drive, you get your driver's license.
Guest:And my mom was supportive, you know, and I drove into the city to go on auditions.
Guest:But you have to go on a lot of auditions.
Marc:Well, how'd you find the auditions?
Marc:Did you have somebody that signed you or what happened?
Guest:You know what?
Guest:I think I got like, well, I got an agent and then I got, I went to acting classes.
Guest:And I think through my acting classes, I got maybe an agent.
Guest:When you're very young, it's a little bit easier to get an agent.
Guest:Like as you get older, it's harder because there's more competition.
Guest:But when you're just like, I'm 15, you know, it's a little bit easier to just be like, okay, you have no experience.
Guest:We'll try sending you out a few times.
Guest:I think I got a commercial agent.
Guest:And then I went to acting classes and, you know, you try, you ask everyone like, oh, you ask your acting teacher, can you introduce me to your agent and blah, blah, blah.
Guest:And I think I got my first agent because my acting teacher, I could tell she didn't really want to help me, but I was like, well, I found this other agency.
Guest:She's like, oh, they're not good.
Guest:I'll, I'll, I'll introduce you to mine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So she helped me get the agent that helped me get the auditions that helped me get that movie with Corey Haim and Corey Feldman.
Marc:And what kind of classes were they?
Marc:How many teachers have you worked with in your life?
Guest:I went to a lot.
Guest:This was just like, I guess I was 16 or 17.
Guest:I used to drive into the city and take one night classes in Hollywood.
Guest:And I was just so excited because I felt like I was from suburbia and here were these arty people.
Guest:I always felt like a bit of a weirdo oddball.
Guest:So I'm like, oh, these people, I feel like I can relate to them more.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, but do you remember, like, because I always wonder, like, were there teachers that made a big impact or that, you know, do you know where you learned most of what you know about acting?
Guest:Well, I tried a lot of different teachers.
Guest:The person I went to the most, his name's Harry Master George.
Guest:And I remember I was really impressed because when I started going to his class, like Ray Liotta was in it.
Guest:And I think like Melanie Griffin.
Marc:And you were like, what, 17?
Guest:I was like, yeah, like maybe I was 20 or something.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Cause I think that was a different class I went to when I was like 17.
Guest:But so I started going to his, I went to his class for a long time and he was just really supportive because some acting teachers can be a little like mean.
Guest:They just want to break you down.
Guest:Make you cry.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I went to different, like I went to Meisner classes.
Guest:I tried a different lot, but then I started going to Harry.
Guest:He just does scene study.
Guest:yeah yeah and he just like yeah so you you do the scene and then he just tells you what you did or what his whole theory is just basically like use your imagination and just pretend you're this person and just sit for in your home for eight hours a day picturing your life and picturing every moment and think of like every thought that's coming into your head and don't practice the lines out loud and don't do it in front of a mirror but just become this person by your imagination
Marc:Oh, so that was that's the trick.
Guest:And basically sit there just like your entire day.
Guest:Like, so instead of going to work, you just sit in your house.
Guest:Just being that person.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it worked for you.
Guest:I mean, I did get job.
Guest:I mean, that's the main thing.
Guest:I, you know, sometimes I'll I'll I'll try to make things similar to my life.
Guest:Like, you'll be like, OK, well, this character's feeling this feeling.
Guest:And I felt this feeling in this moment.
Guest:But that's not really what he teaches.
Guest:But occasionally I will do that.
Marc:So theoretically, if you can imagine it thoroughly enough, you don't need to do that.
Guest:That's his belief.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But other people are sort of like, I need to cry.
Guest:I got to think about my dog.
Guest:You need an in.
Guest:Like, yeah, you're like, okay, well, this thing reminds me of this situation.
Guest:So I'll kind of like substitute it and then try it.
Guest:But his theory is like, it should be puristly just thinking of the story.
Guest:And if you were really this person in this story.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But the weird thing is, is that like I've learned because I'm fairly new to acting, you know, in a professional way is that, you know, it's that's only going to enrich a lot of times.
Marc:That's going to make the experience for you more deep and interesting.
Marc:But for someone watching it, you know, however you cry, you're generally matter.
Guest:Everyone has like a different way.
Guest:So, yeah, every teacher just has their different way.
Guest:But that was his way.
Marc:And so you did, you did License to Drive.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then you did, but then, so right, pretty.
Guest:Then I did Drugstore Cowboy.
Guest:That was like the cool arty movie.
Guest:Pretty soon after, right?
Guest:Yeah, that's when I really met like Gus Van Sant and like.
Marc:What was the casting for that like?
Guest:Well, it was like Matt Dillon, James LeGrow.
Guest:No, yeah, but how'd you get it?
Guest:Oh, how'd I get it?
Guest:I just auditioned.
Guest:I went and auditioned for it.
Guest:I think I had to cry on it.
Guest:And I remember just the whole day, like just putting myself in this crazy mood and going in.
Marc:Oh, it's the hat on the bed thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You put the hat on the bed, didn't you?
Oh, no.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I died in it and I got put in a body bag.
Marc:You turned blue.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You OD'd, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that was before Gus Manstead ever had done.
Guest:That was like his first big movie.
Guest:He did this smaller movie.
Marc:It's a great movie.
Marc:It's a great movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that was, I suddenly was like, oh my God, like this is all these cool arty people and Matt Dillon.
Marc:Did you meet William Burroughs?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:How was that?
Guest:He was cool.
Guest:I mean, I was like 18, so I'm not like, you know.
Guest:You didn't know who he was really?
Guest:I think I started reading his books because I was working with him, but I hadn't like known.
Guest:It's a lot at 18 to read those books.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I had like no drug taking, you know, history at that point.
Marc:Did he seem like just this weird old grandpa?
Guest:I mean, no, they just seem like these weird.
Guest:I remember like James LeGros saying like, you should read Charles Bukowski and John Fonte.
Guest:And I'm like, oh, there's all these interesting people I can read.
Guest:And they're like, listen to Tom Waits.
Guest:And I'm like, wow, no one at my high school was ever into all this cool.
Guest:I'm like, I felt so cool.
Guest:I'm like listening to Tom Waits and like reading John Fonte and Charles Bukowski.
Guest:I'm like, I've really made it into the cool circle of like arty people.
Marc:It's very L.A., though, those three things.
Marc:It's sort of wild.
Marc:You've got William Burroughs there, who's the grandfather of all that shit.
Marc:But, like, you know, those guys, those three are L.A.
Marc:people.
Marc:You could have seen any of them.
Marc:So, all right, so now you're moving, right?
Marc:You're a drugstore cowboy.
Marc:Things are happening.
Guest:Yeah, things are happening.
Guest:I started to feel like, oh, my God, you know, maybe I'm going to, like, break out.
Guest:And I, like, met all these interesting people.
Guest:But, you know, it's hard being an actor.
Guest:Like, you know, I kept working, but it wasn't like then I suddenly, like, got every job I ever wanted.
Yeah.
Marc:Well, you did some movies that I don't remember that were probably movies that weren't as big as they could be.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But you did work with Lawrence Kasdan.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I got to work with Jessica Lange.
Guest:Jessica Lange.
Guest:I did some cool things.
Guest:And I supported myself as an actor, which I'm so grateful for.
Marc:Well, this I Love You to Death, I kind of remember that movie.
Marc:What was it about?
Guest:It had a small part.
Guest:It was basically about how Kevin Kline was cheating on his wife, who was played by Tracy Ullman.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And basically, I was like one of the girls he was cheating on with.
Marc:Did you meet River Phoenix and everybody?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I can't believe he died.
Guest:So many people have died.
Guest:It's so sad.
Marc:Yeah, right?
Guest:He was so nice.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But getting back to David Lynch, he's got you meditating.
Marc:He's stuck you into TM.
Marc:And you do the TV show.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then you do the movie.
Marc:And you're like 20, 21.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I guess so.
Guest:21?
Guest:Yeah, maybe.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But then you do, like, before... How far away is... Well, then I... Swingers.
Guest:I remember you in Swingers.
Guest:Then it was, like, years later that I was in Swingers.
Guest:And then I was in Boogie Nights.
Marc:Yeah, but you did that two girls and a guy.
Guest:Oh, yeah, I did that.
Guest:That was actually after Boogie Nights.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, it was?
Guest:It came out before the... I've worked with a lot of sexual harassers.
Marc:Well, no, I know.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Toback was like... I managed to hit a lot of those people on that list.
Guest:Yeah, Toback directed Two Girls and a Guy, which was... Actually, he did not sexually harass me, even though I could see that he, I'm sure, did sexually harass a lot of people.
Guest:But...
Marc:He was one of those guys.
Marc:He was like, not just a racer.
Guest:He was a predator.
Guest:He was a predator.
Guest:No, he was like, he would like, okay, our whole shoot.
Guest:Maybe we only had like two weeks.
Guest:We shot that whole movie in like two weeks or two and a half weeks.
Guest:He would go away at lunch and he would come back late.
Guest:Like that's, no one would ever do that in a movie that only had two and a half weeks.
Guest:And we'd be like, where is he?
Guest:And they'd be like, I think he's gambling or I don't know.
Guest:Or maybe he was trying to have sex with someone.
Guest:But like, he would be like an hour late.
Guest:We're sitting there with like Robert Downey Jr.
Guest:We're like, where did the director go?
Marc:How was Downey at that point?
Guest:He had just come out of his like drug phase.
Guest:So he was getting drug tested every day.
Guest:He had somebody with him.
Guest:Had he done jail?
Marc:No, he wasn't jail yet.
Marc:That came later, I think.
Guest:I'm not sure.
Guest:All I know is that he was like on a drug watch.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So that was odd.
Marc:That was show business.
Marc:So like outside of Toback, like before that, he worked with Gus a few times.
Marc:He worked with some women directors.
Marc:But who are the other predators here?
Guest:Oh, there's so many.
Guest:Well, Israel Horowitz.
Guest:Gross.
Guest:You worked with him?
Guest:No, but I dated his son when I was 19.
Guest:18?
Guest:Oh, I dated his son around the time of Drugstore Cowboy.
Marc:What's his name, Mike?
Guest:Adam Horowitz.
Marc:Adam from the Beastie Boys.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And he basically, after I dated Adam and we broke up, I auditioned for one of his plays.
Guest:And after the audition, I was riding down in the elevator.
Guest:He's like, let me walk you out.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And so he gets in the elevator and then he just pushes me against the elevator, sticks his tongue down my throat.
Guest:I feel like he might have said something about like, what are we going to do about us?
Guest:And I was just like, what are you talking about?
Guest:And then I just got out of the elevator and I just never talked to him again.
Guest:And then I heard him saying later like, Heather's so ungrateful.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Because I think he helped me when I was with Adam.
Guest:Like he recommended me to this acting class in New York that I went to.
Marc:So was this before like Boogie Nights and everything?
Guest:It was way before.
Guest:It was like after Drugstore Cowboy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then a lot of women recently came out about that.
Guest:A lot.
Guest:a lot about Horowitz the thing that was really disturbing was that like a lot of women came out in the 90s and they weren't taken seriously and they were like oh these women are high strong or you know and they didn't do anything about it and so 20 years later more women came out or some of the same women came out again plus more women and they finally took it seriously and they had a whole thing on NPR I was listening to about why are people taking this seriously now when they didn't before because the jig is up the jig's up
Guest:It's so good.
Guest:As a woman, we're just like reading this news.
Guest:We're like, yes, this is water in a desert.
Guest:Like, it's so fun to read these stories.
Marc:And you also had a Weinstein encounter.
Marc:Yes, I did.
Marc:Do you look back at it thinking that it was career shifting?
Marc:I mean, what happened exactly?
Guest:Well, I don't know.
Guest:Like, I mean...
Guest:He's just one person.
Guest:I don't know any stories like that.
Guest:One very powerful person.
Guest:Yeah, one very powerful.
Guest:I mean, basically, yeah, I went into his office and he was like, had these scripts on a table and he was like, I want to work with you.
Guest:You're just, you're pretty and you're funny and that's a rare combination.
Guest:So choose one of these scripts, any script, and we'll just do it together.
Guest:And I was like, holy shit, you know?
Guest:And then he was like, you know, my wife and I have an arrangement.
Guest:When I'm out of town, I can just have sex with whoever I want.
Guest:And then he hugs me, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And reading all these stories afterwards, like recently, I'm like, I'm so glad I got out of that office quickly.
Guest:And I was like, great.
Guest:I just pretended like, I don't know how to deal with this.
Guest:And so I just left.
Guest:And then I thought, is there any way to turn this back into like a working situation?
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:Because I kind of knew what he was inferring, but I thought, well, I went to his office.
Guest:So I asked some people and they said, just don't be alone with him.
Guest:So I found this other friend.
Marc:So this was when in your career?
Guest:This was like 2000.
Guest:I'm just going to say approximately 2003.
Guest:So I had already been.
Marc:And people already knew.
Guest:I was in my 30s.
Guest:I wasn't like 19.
Guest:You've been around.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think he does obviously do this to a lot of young women, but I think he's doing this to a lot of women in general.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And people knew enough to, the women knew enough to tell you don't be alone with them.
Guest:Someone said, and you know, I had actually heard the Rose McGowan story, but I never heard that he raped her.
Guest:I only heard that he attacked her and that she, from the story that I heard, he attacked her, she hit him and ran out.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I didn't know that he had actually raped anyone.
Marc:That was what was going around then.
Guest:That was what was going around then.
Guest:So I just thought, so then what happened was I thought, okay, I'm going to.
Marc:So in the story you heard back then, she got away.
Guest:It's the story I heard.
Guest:I had heard stories that like he invites women to his hotel room.
Guest:He has his robe half open and he says like, oh, come in.
Guest:And then it's awkward.
Guest:And that I heard that with Rose McGowan, it was just a bigger story that I basically just heard.
Guest:He attacked her and she ran out.
Marc:right i didn't hear that oh he actually you know had raped because there yeah because there's this uh the the it's almost like you said about like uh you know i'm not trying to trivialize anything but with cory hame and and and uh cory feldman is that you know these stories were around but then now there's sort of people saying that everyone's complicit because no one was doing anything but the story you hear is not always what happened
Guest:I guess it was the story wasn't the full story, right?
Guest:Because I think most people didn't know that he was actually raping people.
Guest:I think people thought that he was a horrible sexual harasser.
Guest:But as a woman, and they had this on the NPR special I was listening to, you look at other people who come forward with stories of sexual harassment and see how they're treated before you decide if you're going to come forward, right?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:So like you look at Anita Hill, like what happened to her?
Guest:You know, like she was like they tried to humiliate her.
Guest:They tried to make her seem crazy.
Guest:Like, can you name a story of a woman who came forward with a sexual harassment story where she was treated respectfully and fairly?
Marc:Right.
Guest:Before that time?
Marc:Before now.
Guest:Can you?
Marc:I don't.
Marc:I can't really.
Guest:I know.
Guest:So it's like as a woman, when this happens to you, you're like, I could, you know, I mean, he didn't attack me physically.
Guest:Like he just basically insinuated I need to have sex with him for a job.
Guest:Like, can I get him put in jail for this?
Marc:But there's also at that time, sadly, the thing is like, well, that's show business.
Guest:And people would just say, that's Harvey.
Guest:Oh, that's Harvey.
Guest:Don't go to his office then.
Guest:Don't work with him then.
Marc:The casting couch idea has been around since the beginning of movies, right?
Marc:So it was instilled that deeply.
Marc:And the more detailed and grotesque it got as time went on.
Marc:But it still always goes back to, you know, women are meat in this business.
Guest:Well, sometimes, yeah, you get a bit defeatist as a woman.
Guest:You're like, well, what am I going to do about this?
Guest:Like, can I fight the whole system?
Guest:Like...
Marc:You've got to make rules for yourself that you shouldn't have to make in life.
Guest:And then you're like, well, do I, will I get hired more if I seem like, oh, I'm like this bitchy woman that's complaining?
Guest:Like, I don't know.
Marc:But did you ever once think that like, I got to do this to get in?
Marc:It seemed like you were already going.
Guest:I didn't because I just, from my point of view, this is how my mind works.
Guest:I think any guy that is doing that is probably not going to fulfill.
Guest:I mean, like if I'm like, if Harvey Weinstein saying have sex with me and I'll give you a job, what if he doesn't?
Guest:Then I had sex with him and he didn't give me a job.
Guest:I mean, I'm just like, I don't believe him.
Guest:So I don't know.
Guest:Maybe he did give people jobs that he had sex with.
Guest:But I'm just like, I'm not the kind of person that can do that.
Guest:Because I guess I just don't want it that badly.
Guest:I just couldn't bring myself to having sex with him.
Guest:well good no shame in that i wasn't attracted to him like he was what's this odd it's funny to me honestly there's something scary about him so i'm not surprised that he was violent because you know how you some people can like hit on you and it's just kind of funny and it makes you feel flattered you're like whatever it's not a big deal but he had a thing where it just felt like when you were around him do you know where you feel like people just like rape your self-esteem yeah they just pull the rug out from under you they want to
Guest:It's like they're on a power trip and they'd like to make you feel bad about yourself in order that they feel better.
Guest:That's just how it felt around him, even without being physically attacked.
Marc:He just exudes this sort of boundary-less... He's a taker.
Guest:I think he reels you in with charisma.
Guest:Like, oh, he's making all these cool movies and he's this sensitive guy and he's making very sensitive movies.
Guest:But then when you really talk to him, he's basically like, I'm in power, you're not.
Guest:And I want you to feel this fact that you're totally lesser than me.
Marc:Yeah, I have control of your life.
Guest:Have you ever been around him and felt that?
Marc:No, I've never been around him.
Marc:But I mean, I certainly, you know, I know those kind of people.
Guest:It's like they get off on like, it's just sadistic basically.
Marc:Well, yeah, it's sadistic, but it's also like he believes that, you know, he's entitled.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, like he had power.
Guest:It's like white male privilege.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Maybe, I don't know if he.
Marc:But he had real power in this industry.
Guest:So much power.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And it's, you know, it's just old as human beings, you know, abuse of power and getting off on having power.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It's so good to see them go down, too.
Guest:You're like, finally, there's some sense of justice in the world.
Guest:And like, it's good to see that some men think that's bad, too, because it's like it makes me feel better as a woman that some guys are like, that sucks.
Guest:You know?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, women should be able to move through the world without being confronted by dicks all the time.
Marc:They should be able to go to work and not have to deal with dicks all day.
Guest:Yeah, that's for sure.
Guest:It's a reckoning.
Guest:Yeah, it's a reckoning.
Guest:Cultural reckoning.
Marc:And you, in your movie, your character.
Guest:Like ironically, like I wrote, I was working, I started working this like six or seven years ago.
Guest:And now we just happens to be coming out right after all this stuff happened.
Marc:You made it before.
Guest:I made it before.
Guest:Obviously stuff is happening, right?
Guest:But I just was like, okay, my protest is not going to be to go to the police and say I was sexually harassed or go to the press at that time.
Guest:It's like, I'm going to write a movie and hopefully deal with this horrible sexism with comedy and sexual harassment.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, but it's funny because it's not as... It could have even been more pointed had you made it today.
Guest:I know, that's the thing.
Guest:I just thought, I don't know, will this be palatable?
Guest:Because I really thought, I want to make a female empowerment movie.
Guest:I hope it empowers men too, but I specifically thought, I want to empower women, but I don't want to be this angry feminist where people are like, ugh, I don't want to listen to this.
Guest:Because in the past, when people came forward with sexual harassment stories, people would just be like, ugh.
Marc:So at the time you made it, you were tempering yourself.
Guest:I was tempering myself and making it just a little more like, well, let's go for the comedy here and not make it as dark.
Guest:Because also I just thought it's so depressing.
Guest:And I just didn't want to depress myself too much about how depressing it is.
Marc:Because it's interesting because the way you guys talk to each other in the movie about where you're at.
Guest:Also, I cast Chris D'Elia as the harasser.
Guest:So it's not like this gross Harvey Weinstein person.
Guest:It's like kind of this cute, charismatic guy.
Marc:Clown.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:but he's like charming and he's not like you know no no i think he did a good job i thought he was funny and i thought everyone was funny i thought what's her name from the office angela she's great she's hilarious she acted the shit out of some of those scenes she blew my head off i mean she definitely like the scene where she phone calls her ex-husband and he comes over like she mixed comedy and drama in that scene in a way that kind of blew my mind also thomas lennon's pretty amazing he's funny but angela is just she's pretty awesome
Marc:Well, I was surprised.
Marc:Like she went pretty deep in like, you know, fairly, you know, you know, those scenes with the new guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:The ponytail guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like they were really, they were really going for it.
Guest:They really were.
Guest:And you know, Angela hasn't really played those kinds of roles.
Guest:I know.
Guest:So she was nervous.
Guest:She's like, Oh my God, I've never done like a sex scene.
Guest:I think she was in the back room drinking tequila.
Guest:Oh really?
Yeah.
Guest:She was nervous because, you know, she's very conservative and she's very like she's not like so.
Guest:But she was I don't know.
Guest:She really did a great job.
Marc:Yeah, she definitely went for it.
Guest:She went for it.
Marc:And it was funny, though, because like all the characters had these, you know, self-esteem issues.
Guest:I know.
Marc:And that was sort of the dialogue, you know, which is like, you know, now it seems like the dialogue is, fuck you.
Marc:You know, we're powerful.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I think that the honesty of those, like all of you having these, you know.
Guest:Usually fuck you is covering a self-esteem issue.
Guest:No, absolutely.
Marc:But like it was all in relation to men, a lot of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, and it was sort of, and it's interesting that, you know, you got Johnny Knoxville playing this preacher, you know, who shows up later.
Marc:I don't want to spoil anything.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But you come from religion?
Yeah.
Guest:I do.
Guest:Yeah, my family's very religious, Catholic, and basically the scene in the beginning where the dad and the daughter are sitting watching a TV show.
Guest:For me, it was The Love Boat, but we couldn't afford the rights to that.
Guest:But I used to watch The Love Boat with my dad, and he'd be like, see those people going into that hotel room?
Guest:They're having premarital sex, and you can go to hell for that.
Guest:I remember just thinking as a kid, like, this is so scary.
Guest:Like, I don't even know what he's talking about.
Marc:I'm so freaked out.
Marc:Did it stay with you?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:You went to church every Sunday?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Until I moved out of the house with my parents, I went to church every Sunday, every holy day.
Guest:I did confirmation, confession.
Guest:And in fact, my dad used to say to me, Catholic, he used to say, we should have sent you to the convent.
Marc:Really?
Marc:That's something that I think Catholic fathers have said for generations.
Guest:He's like, we should have sent you to Catholic school.
Marc:Get thee to a nunnery.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah, well, I mean, Catholic school happens.
Marc:I guess you got lucky.
Marc:You got out.
Guest:You didn't do it.
Guest:I was watching that movie Novitiate, and there's a scene where it's all about beating up on yourself, right?
Guest:I'm like, because I do that to myself now sometimes.
Guest:I'm like, well, this is where I got it.
Guest:And they give these girls a whip.
Guest:Yeah, they're like, if you haven't been a good Catholic, hit yourself with this whip.
Guest:And I thought, oh, I feel like I was kind of brought up to be like that.
Guest:It's like, oh, if you've been bad, beat yourself up a lot and try to be better.
Guest:Yeah, mentally.
Guest:Yeah, I didn't use an actual whip, but mentally.
Marc:So you really were in it mentally.
Marc:Hell existed.
Guest:Heaven was possible.
Guest:Yeah, why does religion bring us up to have fear and shame around our sexuality?
Guest:Ultimately, if God created us, isn't our sexuality part of that?
Guest:And shouldn't we embrace that as a beautiful part of ourselves?
Guest:So it seems like an opposite doesn't make sense.
Marc:Yeah, and you covered that in the movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I feel like that was my personal journey.
Guest:So I just put it in a movie because I thought, I don't see anyone telling this specific story.
Guest:And I felt like, to me, I went through it in my life.
Guest:And I thought, when I was younger, I felt like, all right.
Guest:And I think this is common with women, though I'm sure not all women.
Guest:But I felt like I liked sex, but I didn't love it.
Guest:I'm just like, let me just do what I think the guy wants.
Guest:But I didn't really fully know what I liked because I was just like, I don't really get it.
Guest:And I'll just try to please the guy.
Guest:So then I think I reached a point where I was with someone and I'm like, oh my God, I finally get why people like sex.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:And then I thought like what you said, oh, this must be love.
Guest:I have to be with him for the rest of my life because now I've realized that my sexuality is spiritual and beautiful.
Guest:And so I'm in love and it's this guy that's making me feel this way instead of just being like, oh, I just had this epiphany.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Or also like, that's what it's supposed to be like.
Guest:And I think women, as we get older, can enjoy sex more.
Guest:I mean, like I'm saying, it's not all women, but I know for myself and a lot of other people I know, you kind of get more into your body and learn how to enjoy it more.
Marc:Well, yeah, well, I think there, you know, there's a part of that movie where somehow or another you managed to do a fairly extensive masturbating scene that was, you know, as a viewer just completely, I felt like I was interrupting.
Marc:I felt like I was like, you know, maybe I should let her be alone.
Marc:Like, you know, like there's, it was so non-sexual to the viewer.
Marc:But it was kind of funny.
Guest:That's the thing.
Guest:Well, yeah, I was kind of going for humor because I'm like, okay, it's not a porno.
Guest:So I guess I was going for humor.
Guest:Like she's kind of having a little trouble.
Guest:No, right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then in the second scene, I wanted to have more of like a spiritual, like that she finds herself.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like, oh, you can give yourself a sexual orgasm.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then the stars go.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You figured it out.
Marc:But it was just sort of funny.
Marc:It was so kind of like passive.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Like, you know, I guess I'll put the headphones on.
Guest:you know it was definitely well you know it's like okay when you break up with someone and you just had really good sex you're like okay well i guess i should masturbate you're like it's just not the same and you're just trying to find that sexuality inside yourself without another person yeah you can find it you can but it takes a while well i'm glad that you put that out there to help people like you know just take your time find the right music
Marc:And you went manual.
Marc:You didn't go, no machines.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Actually, some people offered us money, like these different like dildo companies were like, if you use our dildo, we'll give you $50,000 for your budget.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:And I'm like, I don't know if that's what I'm trying to say with the movie because I'm trying to, I don't know.
Guest:I'm not trying to sell a product at that moment, but we were offered money to use sex toys at that moment.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Well, I think you made the right choice.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:And all right, so let's like going back to, you know, because there is a lot of spirituality and a lot of in the movie and a lot of sort of coming into people's selves, you know, right?
Marc:But how are you doing yourself?
Marc:Are you all right mentally these days?
Guest:I mean, I think it's like... You still beat up on yourself?
Guest:I do.
Guest:Yeah, it's sort of like a journey where I keep getting better and better at it, but it still exists.
Guest:So I'm just like a much, much better at it.
Guest:But I still have, you know, things I struggle with for sure.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like what?
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Well, like, let's say, you know, I feel like a lot of us can relate to this, but you grow up and maybe your parents don't really know how to unconditionally love themselves.
Guest:So they don't teach you how to unconditionally love yourself.
Guest:So you have to be a loving parent to your own inner child.
Guest:I know this is getting into sort of like a weird psychological inner child area, but you have to be able to speak nicely to yourself.
Guest:Like as this like unconditionally loving parent, like great job.
Guest:Great.
Guest:I'm there for you.
Guest:You know, like I'm doing that for myself.
Guest:And I know that sounds incredibly dorky, but it actually is kind of great.
Guest:no i i i completely know what that's like i i think that's true that you have to learn how to self-parent after a certain point yeah or else you're like okay my parents tried their best they definitely did some good things some things were not as good so i have to correct that inside myself because you internalize some of the bad patterns or something and so they're like okay how can i be more loving in this moment and i guess i was always brought up maybe through religion and being a woman to think i need to take care of other people first and not myself
Guest:And then I learned as an adult, it's actually the opposite is true.
Guest:If you take care of yourself first and you're really loving, then you have so much more to give.
Guest:And actually someone had this really great thing they said the other day.
Guest:They said, it's like an African proverb.
Guest:They're like, beware the naked man who gives you a shirt.
Guest:So how can you give somebody love if you don't love yourself?
Guest:You know, I tried to get into in the movie as well.
Guest:Like, you know, because I felt like I was taught like, oh, you can't do things for yourself.
Guest:You have to do things for other people.
Guest:But if you really love yourself a lot and do things for yourself, then you just have so much more to give.
Guest:And you're just a more loving person.
Guest:And you're not coming out of like a resentful state of like a naked person giving someone a shirt.
Marc:Yeah, and it's hard to stay in that.
Marc:Sort of like what we were talking about earlier with spirituality or with comedy or staying out of the dread or the hopelessness or the self-judgment or feeling like you're not enough or whatever.
Marc:But that whole idea of the parents, if you don't deal with that shit, your expectation to be parented will never go away.
Guest:Yeah, you're sad.
Guest:You're just like, oh, well, why wasn't I in these moments unconditionally loved the way I wanted to be?
Guest:You're like, okay, now it's up to me to do that for myself.
Guest:And that feels so gross because you're like, I want to fill this hole inside myself with either the perfect relationship or the job or the money or having, I don't know, whatever it is for you.
Guest:But really you have to do it for yourself through some kind of spirituality or just deciding that you love and accept yourself with all your flaws and imperfections.
Guest:It's so hard.
Guest:Extra work.
Guest:It's so hard.
Guest:Do you do that?
Marc:I do, to a degree, I'm aware of everything you're saying, and I've read some books about it, and I'm on top of it.
Guest:To actually do it is hard.
Marc:Well, the only way I can do it really is give myself breaks.
Guest:Yeah, that's good.
Guest:Self-care.
Marc:Yeah, or just don't beat yourself up about that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You did it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Sometimes it's as stupid as a candy bar.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You can have one candy bar.
Guest:That's fine.
Yeah.
Marc:Is it?
Guest:Yeah, I think so.
Guest:I mean, if you're not like eating eight candy bars, you've got to allow yourself.
Marc:But you know, like you have to really decide, you know, what you, you know, what are you doing?
Marc:You know, is it really worth, you know, beating yourself up for a day?
Guest:Yeah, it's not.
Guest:This is what I do because I beat up on myself a lot and I just go, I pray because I don't, I just go, okay, whatever universe, higher power, whatever God, like, please take this away.
Marc:You do that?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's so hard.
Marc:Do you still have belief in God?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Um, I mean, I don't believe in like Catholic though.
Guest:I mean, there's really like nice Catholic people out there who are doing great stuff.
Guest:But personally for me, it doesn't really work.
Guest:I just believe in like spirituality.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Also, I just feel like it's so dumb.
Guest:Like why are all these religions like hating each other?
Guest:Like we're all just trying to find spirituality and the same thing.
Guest:And like, yeah, we decide like if you're this religion, you're going to hell.
Guest:Like in the Catholic religion, if you're not a Catholic, you're going to hell.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That is so sad.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Especially for me because I'm going.
Yeah.
Guest:But I mean, I'm like, why?
Guest:But every religion is kind of snobby.
Guest:Like Jewish people are just like, oh, if the mother's not Jewish, then your child's not Jewish and you're not whatever.
Guest:So it's like every religion has this weird snobbery around their own way of seeing God.
Guest:And it's just like, why can't we be more open-minded and be like, great, you're another religion.
Guest:That's what works for you.
Guest:That's fantastic.
Guest:You're Muslim.
Guest:That's fantastic.
Guest:Like whatever connects you to like love.
Guest:Just don't hurt me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just don't.
Marc:Don't kill people in the name of your religion.
Guest:Obviously killing people is terrible.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And a lot of religions have done it.
Marc:They've all done it.
Guest:It's like somebody said more people have been killed in the name of God than in Satan.
Guest:It's like everyone's killing each other and being like, I'm on God's side.
Guest:But what if we're all just struggling along trying to find spirituality and there's really no difference?
Marc:Trying to find a point.
Marc:What do we do with this amazing self-awareness?
Marc:What do we do with this knowledge of our own death?
Marc:How do we make it okay?
Guest:What do you do?
Marc:What do I do?
Guest:Comedy.
Marc:Try not to think about it.
Guest:How do we know death is bad?
Guest:How do you not know that maybe death is great?
Marc:Well, look, you do know something's over and you might not know anything at all.
Marc:I think that's really the scariest thing and why people have been so elaborate about it is that what does life mean and what if you die and there's nothing?
Guest:What if you die and actually you're happier than when you were alive?
Marc:Why do you, oh, you think that like you're going to die and all of a sudden you'd be like, oh, thank God.
Guest:No, but I'm just saying we don't know.
Guest:So why assume the worst?
Marc:What's the worst?
Marc:Hell is the worst.
Guest:Hell is the worst.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Nothing's not so bad.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Nothing's not that bad.
Marc:If consciousness ends.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, it's, cause like, you know, like sometimes when I think about death, I'm like, well, who's going to, what is going to happen with all these books?
Marc:And it's sort of like.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You have a lot of cool books.
Marc:But like no one, who cares?
Marc:I'm not going to know.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Death is the most vulnerable place in the world to be because you can't defend yourself anymore.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think men are more worried about death than women.
Marc:Are they?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Maybe because you have more feelings of control.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:As a woman, I'm just like, okay, I'm going to die.
Guest:I don't know what's going to happen.
Guest:Yeah, I'm kind of there.
Guest:It's more scary to not live life and to be miserable in life and let life go by and not appreciate it and not be grateful.
Guest:I'm more worried about that because sometimes I feel like I have a good life, but then I can beat the shit out of myself and think it's terrible when in reality I have like a fantastic life.
Guest:I think that's more tragic is not to just enjoy the day.
Marc:I get a little of that, too.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So, wait, let's talk.
Marc:We didn't talk about Boogie Nights because you were so good in that that, like, whenever I see that actor that played that guy that you beat the shit out of.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:I'm like, wow, his face healed up good.
Guest:That's so funny.
Guest:That was fun, actually.
Guest:That was so fun.
Marc:Well, I mean, in terms of, like.
Guest:Because you interviewed Paul, right?
Guest:I got to listen to that one.
Marc:I did a while back.
Marc:Yeah, that's cool.
Marc:Yeah, it was good because he doesn't do much of that.
Guest:Hmm.
Guest:He doesn't do a lot of interviews.
Marc:And we did a long time for him.
Marc:And I did it in a very specific way because I had assumed from his work and from not knowing anything about him that he was some sort of dark brooding genius.
Marc:But he's just this goofy kid from the valley.
Marc:And I'm like, that all comes out of you.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Guest:Isn't he?
Guest:That's funny, yeah, totally.
Marc:So with Boogie Nights, how old were you when you did that, like 21, 22?
Guest:I was like 26.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Marc:So you knew what was up.
Guest:I mean, that was just my big break, I think, that just helped me have a career where people knew my name.
Marc:But no, but in terms of porn and living in that world and being around that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, you know, like at the time, no one had really made a movie about porn.
Guest:So it was sort of like, oh, is this going to be super exploitational or is this cool?
Guest:I mean, I thought his writing was amazing.
Guest:And for me, it was a massive break at that time.
Guest:But a lot of people were like, oh, you're making a movie about porn.
Guest:I actually remember Adam Carolla being like, yeah, that sounds great.
Guest:You know, it's so funny because I recently saw him.
Guest:He's like, I'm so sorry I harassed you about Boogie Nights when that turned out to be such a good movie.
Marc:He apologized recently?
Guest:No, it was maybe like 10 years ago.
Guest:But after the fact, he was like, I remember I was like, you know, really giving you a hard time about making like a totally exploited porno movie when it turned out to be like a good movie.
Marc:It's interesting that he made an amends.
Marc:That makes me like Adam.
Guest:Actually, I'm doing another interview with him like in a week or two.
Marc:All right, good luck getting a word in.
Guest:Chris D'Elia is going to be there, so I'll just let him make jokes.
Marc:You're doing that together?
Guest:I think we're doing it together.
Guest:I was like, I want Chris to be there because he'll just be really funny and I can just sit there.
Guest:I just show up.
Guest:No, it'll be good.
Guest:It'll be good.
Marc:You'll have fun with Chris.
Marc:I see Chris all the time.
Guest:I know because you guys do a lot of the comedy store, right?
Marc:Yeah, I see him at the comedy store all the time.
Marc:Bring him up.
Marc:It's so fun.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I just love stand-up comedy.
Guest:I got really into watching stand-up comedy recently.
Guest:I just love watching it.
Marc:It's so fun.
Marc:Because of working with Chris?
Guest:I think just because... I don't know.
Guest:I really... Because I just think I couldn't do it.
Guest:So I just love watching it.
Guest:Who do you like?
Marc:Who are you digging?
Marc:Who do you like watching?
Guest:Do you go live?
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Over the weekend, I was watching Two Dope Queens.
Marc:Have you been watching them?
Marc:No, I haven't.
Marc:But I did their show.
Guest:They're cool.
Guest:They have mostly women and people of color and LGBT people.
Guest:And I don't know.
Guest:They were fun.
Guest:But I love so many people.
Marc:Yeah, do you watch Ali Wong?
Marc:Yeah, she's awesome.
Guest:I saw her special where she's pregnant.
Guest:I don't know, Hannibal Buress.
Marc:Hannibal's good, yeah.
Guest:Chris, I know Whitney Cummings a little bit.
Guest:Whitney, yeah.
Guest:She's cool.
Guest:I mean, I just admire, I admire comedians a lot.
Guest:I'm like, how do they get up on stage and talk about this stuff?
Guest:It's so personal and turn it into its humor.
Guest:Do you want to try it?
Guest:I want to learn from them on how to do it in my life.
Guest:How do I take things that bother me?
Guest:How do you stand up in your life?
Guest:Just how do I find the humor in terrible things or embarrassing things or myself?
Guest:I think it's really cool and brave.
Guest:I watch Crashing, like Pete Holmes.
Guest:He's funny.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:On a day-to-day basis, what are you really dealing with that would make you need to do that?
Marc:To actually have it pressing, sort of like, how do I stop this from happening?
Guest:what do you mean like like like yeah the thoughts oh yeah any day like actually somebody said something the other day i thought it was so poetic he goes i wake up every day with a storm in my brain yeah i thought i can relate to that like sometimes i wake up with a storm in my brain i'm like how do i get these for me the worst time is the morning like i'm kind of depressed in the morning then the rest of the day i can get in like a better mood but yeah but i've been getting into writing so i write writing some more stuff and i try to like sometimes put stuff in my writing yeah and try to like exercise it like
Marc:Do you just do general writing or, you know?
Guest:Well, I wrote two new things.
Guest:One is called Chosen Family and it's about like a woman that grows.
Guest:It's a full script.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like about a woman who has a dysfunctional family and how it's sort of about how, you know, when you, your family does things that bother you and then somehow you end up in that same dynamic with relationships, but you're like, I'm trying to avoid this.
Guest:How does this kind of like follow me around?
Guest:You know?
Marc:Well, that's sort of along the same lines of the self-parenting thing.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Marc:It's the same area.
Guest:Because if you can self-parent yourself and hopefully you attract like a healthier dynamic, but like say, okay, your family's really controlling and then you end up with a controlling boyfriend, you're like, why am I repeating this?
Marc:Does that happen to you?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Have you ever done that?
Marc:I don't, I don't, I'm not attracted to control.
Marc:I get a little chaos.
Marc:I've had some.
Guest:You like chaos and drama.
Marc:That seems to be it.
Marc:My dad was very explosive and my mom was kind of, I don't know what she is.
Marc:But, you know, but I do.
Guest:See, I could ask you a lot of questions about this right now.
Marc:Why you just get done with something or are you in something?
Guest:No, no, I'm just interested in like your parental dynamic.
Guest:So like your dad was explosive and your mom?
Marc:Erratic and a bit bipolar.
Marc:My mom was like, had eating disorders and was always a little wittier, but as time goes on.
Guest:So that's where you got your humor?
Marc:I think so, but I always let her off the hook for some reason, but I think she's fully on the hook.
Marc:She's gotten a lot.
Guest:We women are crazy.
Guest:It's like, okay, it's hard to be a woman and you're looking at these ads and you're, I don't know a single woman that is not somewhat neurotic about something about her appearance, but you know, you have to let it go.
Marc:Obviously you deal with that in the movie too.
Marc:And I think that that's part of this, this reckoning is, you know, acceptance of bodies and trying to do that more.
Guest:putting this pressure on ourselves to be this weird ideal of like a 16 year old model.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:And it's like, we have to unplug ourselves from the culture and say, I think I look good.
Guest:I look great.
Guest:And I'm going to feel great about myself and I'm not going to listen to whatever.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So how do you see this new phase in your career?
Marc:I mean, do you feel when you look back at your career?
Marc:Cause I mean, you've done a lot of stuff.
Marc:You'd been in a lot of big movies.
Marc:You've had a lot of shots.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:um yeah i've been lucky to work yeah you work a lot now what made you all of a sudden sort of like write direct like was there a moment where you're like uh you know i'm um uh you know i gotta take care of myself in another way well i think okay on one level like as an actress you're like i really hope like a guy hires me for the part of my lifetime that will help me express my creative potential but you're like maybe he's not going to so i better hire myself yeah
Guest:And you're like, maybe a man doesn't want to tell the same story that I want to tell.
Guest:And then I guess you just think I want to tell a story about something that means something to me and share this sort of journey I went on that I think is interesting, whether or not it's, you know, I just want to like what you were saying.
Guest:I was listening to one of your things where you said you just have to get up every day, work on your craft, do the best you can.
Guest:It's like sometimes it's just fun making things.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And it's more fun making something that says something you want to say.
Marc:And that you have control over.
Guest:It's fun.
Guest:Even though it's much more scary and stressful.
Guest:It's also like, okay, I want women and men.
Guest:I hope men can feel good in watching the movie too.
Guest:But I want them to leave and be like, I'm fucking hot.
Guest:And I can have whatever I want.
Guest:And I feel great about myself.
Guest:And I love my girlfriends.
Guest:And I love life.
Guest:And my dreams can come true.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I want...
Guest:I feel like I watch a lot of depressing movies.
Guest:I feel like women's roles in movies can, a lot of times we're like the supporting character that like someone's trying to kill us, someone's stabbing us, some guy's trying to save us.
Guest:It's just like, we're not that empowered in most movies and I'm just sick of watching those movies.
Guest:I want to watch a movie with like a heroine I can relate to that is empowered, that I can feel happy about.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And so like when, now this is your first directing, first time?
Guest:Yeah, first time.
Marc:And first time writing?
Guest:First time writing.
Marc:So who did you, did you, did you lean on people?
Guest:Did you?
Guest:Yeah, I have this friend, his name's Michael Nichols.
Guest:He's a huge fan of your podcast, actually.
Guest:He was like, you gotta get on that podcast.
Guest:It's the best one.
Guest:And so my friend Michael Nichols and Julia, his wife, they, I wrote, okay, I was going through a breakup.
Guest:So I started, I kind of started writing the script.
Guest:How long were you with the guy?
Guest:I was with them for like a year.
Guest:But I started writing a script based on this group of friends I was hanging around with.
Guest:And then I went through this breakup and I was feeling sad.
Guest:So I'm like, how can I write about the stuff that makes me sad and just trying to make myself laugh and perspective?
Guest:So I was doing that.
Guest:I just kind of wrote it to crack myself up.
Guest:And I gave it to him.
Guest:And he was just very encouraging.
Guest:And he was just like, you should keep writing.
Guest:And then he's like, you know, you should direct this because I was like, maybe I'll get a director because I had worked developing projects for 10 years before trying to make movies about women.
Guest:I tried to make the triangle factory fire story.
Guest:I tried to make this like romantic sex comedy about this woman who's insecure that no guy will ever have sex with her as a producer and actress.
Guest:And people kept saying to me, like, nobody cares about women's stories.
Guest:If you want to get a movie made right about a man.
Guest:And I was just like, what?
Guest:And it was so frustrating, you know?
Guest:And then I think I wrote this about my frustrations with relationships, my frustrations with Hollywood, trying to make movies about women when people were just telling me that nobody cared.
Guest:And they were just like, unless you're one of three women, like you're not gonna, like there's the three biggest movie stars and they get to do that.
Guest:But other than that, all the rest of the women, it's like, you can be the supporting role if you can get, you know, a big movie star to play his wife or something, you know?
Marc:Right, yeah.
Marc:So you just took it into your own hands.
Guest:So I was just like, I'm just going to write this down about my frustrations.
Guest:And I'm like, well, maybe I could make this for not a huge budget.
Guest:And then we found this financiers.
Guest:My friend Michael, who loves your podcast, found these financiers.
Guest:And then they basically ended up not having the money.
Guest:So we had to completely fold after we had hired the whole crew and cast the whole movie.
Guest:Completely fold, and then we found another financier.
Guest:His name's Bill Scheinberg, and he's amazing.
Guest:And he's part of this Hollywood family, like Sid Scheinberg and Lorraine Scheinberg.
Guest:And he just really supported us.
Guest:And so then luckily and weirdly, this movie's coming out right now when people care about women's issues, where maybe if we happened the year earlier, we would have come out at a time where maybe nobody would be as interested in this subject.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So the timing's good.
Guest:The timing's good.
Marc:And now when you do like it is it is a comedy and comedy is not easy.
Marc:And, you know, did you show the script to funny people?
Guest:Yeah, I did.
Guest:I did.
Guest:I got help.
Guest:Well, Molly has a friend, Steve Korn.
Guest:I don't know if you know him.
Guest:He's he he read it and he gave me something.
Marc:Molly who?
Guest:Molly Shannon.
Guest:She's in it.
Guest:And she you know, and then I just I let a lot of the actors improv.
Guest:I just say, look, if you come up with something, just try it out.
Guest:You know, and then if it doesn't work, I'll tell you not to do it.
Guest:So, I mean, then you have like Thomas Lennon and you're like, he's like, I love you somewhat.
Guest:It's like, I care about you deeply without loving you.
Guest:He comes up with these lines and you're like, I care about you deeply without, you know, when someone is like giving you this half-hearted love and you're like, this is so hilarious.
Guest:Like he came up with so many funny things.
Marc:Yeah, he was good.
Guest:He's just like, you look horrible.
Marc:Let me ask you about like, cause I'm dating a painter and you know, we noticed that there's a lot of artists and the conception of them was, you know, not great.
Guest:Well, I mean, to be honest, okay, there was a guy like that character, but he actually was not an artist.
Guest:So I took a boyfriend I had who was an artist and combined him with this other boyfriend.
Marc:The light artist?
Guest:Who did a lot of drugs.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:Yeah, the light artist.
Guest:So I'm not trying to like dis-artist, but I'm just saying he had like a free-spirited lifestyle that wasn't like a nine-to-five guy.
Marc:Sure, sure.
Marc:And what about Thomas London's character?
Marc:Was that based on something?
Guest:Oh, that's right.
Marc:Because he's like out of nowhere, you're like, oh, he's a big painter.
Yeah.
Guest:I mean, to be honest, I have a bunch of friends and different, you know, a lot of stuff is either taken from like friends or like me.
Guest:I combined a lot of people, you know, like me or different experienced friends I've had.
Guest:Yeah, friends, boyfriends, ex-husbands, husbands.
Guest:You know, I have a lot of friends.
Guest:Have you been married?
Guest:I've never been married.
Guest:But I have girlfriends and they obsess on a guy, you know, and when you're watching from a distance, you're like, why are you obsessed on him?
Guest:Like, he didn't really treat you that great.
Guest:Like, you know, somebody, you know, why are you?
Guest:And so I told the story about Angela's character because of that.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:She's obsessed with her ex-husband.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that happens.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I thought they were, you know, your story and her story, you know, I can completely, you know, relate to the other side of those.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And men can relate to it, you know?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And the, and the one that seemed younger that, uh, what's her name?
Guest:Stephanie Beatrice.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That, that relationship seemed like something from when I was younger.
Guest:That's the thing.
Guest:I feel like I've been in that relationship.
Guest:I have friends where you're just like, I never asked for what I wanted because I was too afraid that
Guest:So sad, you know, you're just like, let's just have the unconventional relationship where we don't commit and we're not monogamous because we're doing this new thing.
Guest:And I have a friend that did that.
Guest:And then the guy ended up getting married and she was like, but, but.
Marc:Well, what do you think that is?
Marc:Like they're not asking for what you want because it'd be threatening or they take it as an insult or is it just, you know, a program in your brain?
Marc:Because I know that like as the guy on the other side of that at different points in my life,
Marc:It's very hard for people to hear things like that without thinking like, no, I don't do it right.
Guest:That's funny.
Guest:I think like, I don't know.
Guest:I think, okay.
Guest:I think as women, we're sort of overly programmed like to take care of everyone.
Guest:So sometimes, and it doesn't really help because you're not sometimes honest with the other person.
Guest:Like, this is what I want.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like really that character wanted to say to him, you know, if you don't want to date me monogamously, let's break up.
Guest:Do you know?
Guest:But in reality, she's like, I'll just hang in there hoping.
Guest:It's like looking at a guy as a project or looking at his potential.
Guest:Like maybe I can change him.
Guest:Like he's got all this great potential.
Guest:If I just hang around acting great, he'll just, he'll give me everything I want eventually.
Marc:But is that a conscious thought or just a behavior that's ingrained?
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:Do people really think, you know what, I did it.
Marc:It's a stupid question.
Guest:Yeah, you've done it, right?
Marc:Once, and it kind of fucked me up.
Guest:It's terrible.
Marc:The codependency thing.
Guest:It's codependent.
Guest:Yeah, it's basically codependency.
Marc:Yeah, but I didn't think I had that really.
Marc:And then I went through a relationship where I'm like,
Guest:what the fuck like i'm just doing everything i could to make this woman i mean a psychologist would say maybe you're like repeating your parental dynamic where your parent was never really there for you and if you try to get them it's it's so it's so you want to get that person who's not there for you to be there for you and you it just feels like when you were a kid what you did with your family so it feels there's something about it that feels delicious and sure finally i'll get this love that i never had
Marc:Yeah, I wonder if that was part of it.
Marc:But ultimately it comes down to like, I see something in you that I believe is there and you're not locking into it.
Marc:So I'm going to try to control you into becoming that thing that I have projected onto you.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:So you can fulfill my fantasy and expectations.
Marc:Or just not make me nuts and sad.
Yeah.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Because there's a little bit you can have of that in a healthy relationship.
Marc:That's my fantasy.
Marc:Just don't make me nuts and sad.
Guest:I know.
Guest:So what about you in relationships?
Guest:Are you good in them or not really?
Marc:I'm trying.
Marc:This one's better because it's not drama filled.
Marc:I went through some heartbreak and some insanity post heartbreak.
Marc:And I don't think I've really kind of recovered from it.
Guest:That's hard.
Marc:I'm a little cynical.
Marc:A little closed up.
Marc:You?
Marc:Kind of like your character on Glove.
Marc:Yeah, a little bit.
Marc:That wasn't a big stretch.
Marc:But what about you?
Guest:Okay, this is what makes me feel good about relationships.
Guest:I just think, what if it's totally out of our control?
Guest:And that it's not about, oh, try to be a good person and have a... It's just like, okay, what if I just turn this over?
Guest:It's out of my control.
Guest:It'll happen or it won't, and I'm just going to enjoy my life day to day.
Guest:How's that go?
Guest:Some people say, like, your relationship has its own higher power.
Guest:So it's kind of like... I mean, look, it's hard.
Guest:Because normally I go, okay, I really... You want to try so hard to have some love that you want.
Guest:But then sometimes it just doesn't happen.
Guest:Yeah, I'm not great with being loved.
Guest:I'm not great with it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That doesn't feel quite right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, you...
Guest:Well, I mean, whatever.
Guest:They would say it's because you don't love yourself.
Guest:So if you love yourself... What about you, though?
Guest:I mean, I'm good at it for like a year to two years.
Guest:And then I'm not as good at it in the past.
Guest:What happens?
Guest:What turns?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know if it's just a compatibility question where it's like, okay, there are these great people, but maybe we're not totally compatible.
Guest:Do they get annoying or...
Guest:different things sometimes it's me sometimes it's them some guys don't want to date an actress who's like doing sex scenes in movies they're just like I don't want that you know or I don't know it's just you think you can get along with a person of a certain personality that's a deal breaker huh I mean some guys just cannot deal with that they're just like not even if just kissing
Guest:Even if it's just, I don't know.
Marc:And you do a lot of sex scenes.
Marc:You have.
Guest:I have in the past.
Guest:Yeah, I don't know.
Guest:It's like, well, that's like what a lot of actresses have to do.
Guest:You know, it's not like, or whatever.
Marc:And now you did it to yourself.
Guest:I did it to myself.
Guest:I did it to myself.
Guest:I guess because I'm just, I'm interested in sexuality.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's interesting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It is, right?
Guest:It is.
Guest:So I just did it from a female point of view.
Guest:That's you?
Guest:Oh, no, I think that's you.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Oh, okay, sorry.
Marc:It's a guy who wants to give me guitar lessons.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:So do you play the guitar?
Marc:I do.
Marc:I do, but I'm sort of- Are you good?
Marc:I'm good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But like I'm stuck.
Guest:Okay, because you're on the thing right there with the guitar, so.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:No, I play guitar.
Guest:I'm pretty good.
Marc:But like I just don't want to do, I want to next level it.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:I want to learn some things.
Guest:Okay, cool.
Marc:And maybe I will.
Guest:That's awesome.
Marc:I feel like such a dork at 54.
Marc:I'm like, I'm going to take guitar lessons.
Guest:I feel like do it.
Guest:I mean, why should we stop ourselves from having fun?
Guest:Just because it was like, okay, once you reach a certain age, you cannot do anything fun anymore.
Marc:But in my brain, it's sort of like, for what?
Marc:Like, am I going to start a band?
Guest:For fun.
Marc:Yeah, okay.
Guest:Honestly, if you started a band, people would probably listen and go see it.
Marc:Yeah, but then you're that guy.
Marc:You're the guy like, yeah, he's a comedian.
Marc:I guess he's doing a band thing.
Marc:That's what we need, another 55-year-old dude with a band.
Guest:That's funny.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I'll talk to you later.
Marc:Nice talking to you.
Guest:Yeah, this was fun.
Marc:Okay, go see the movie.
Marc:Watch it somewhere.
Marc:It seems like you can watch it in your home.
Marc:Half Magic, written, directed, and stars Heather Graham.
Marc:That was pleasant.
Marc:It was nice to get to know her a little bit.
Marc:What can I tell you?
Marc:I hooked up.
Marc:I'm about to clean out my pedals.
Marc:I'm about to move them with everything else, so I hooked up a pedal or two here, and I'll play some guitar in the way the pedals make it.
Marc:Anyways, these pedals make it.
Marc:You know what I'm saying?
All right.
.
Guest:.
Guest:you you
I don't know.
So,
Guest:Boomer Lives!