Episode 888 - Tracy Letts

Episode 888 • Released February 7, 2018 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Guest:All right, let's do this.

00:00:10Marc:How are you?

00:00:11Marc:What the fuckers?

00:00:12Marc:What the fuck buddies?

00:00:13Marc:What the fuck stirs?

00:00:14Marc:What's happening?

00:00:14Marc:I'm Mark Maron.

00:00:15Marc:This is my podcast.

00:00:17Marc:Big day today.

00:00:19Marc:Big fan of the guy who's on today.

00:00:21Marc:Tracy Letts is here.

00:00:24Marc:He's a playwright and actor.

00:00:25Marc:You might know him from...

00:00:28Marc:The most recent film, Lady Bird.

00:00:31Marc:He plays Molly Shannon's husband on that show, Divorce.

00:00:34Marc:He was in The Post.

00:00:39Marc:He wrote Bug.

00:00:40Marc:He wrote Killer Joe.

00:00:41Marc:He wrote August, Osage County.

00:00:44Marc:I love the way he acts.

00:00:46Marc:I feel like I know the guy, and it was great to have him in here.

00:00:50Marc:To talk to him.

00:00:51Marc:It was nice.

00:00:51Marc:It was fun.

00:00:53Marc:It was familiar.

00:00:54Marc:It's weird when I get it in my mind that I know somebody.

00:00:57Marc:I act like I know him and then either it takes or it doesn't.

00:01:01Marc:That's my style.

00:01:03Marc:If I think I know you, I'll try to impose that on you.

00:01:10Marc:And I did that.

00:01:11Marc:I did that with Letts to some success, I must say.

00:01:14Marc:I feel like we're close.

00:01:16Marc:I feel like we're friends.

00:01:17Marc:I feel like we could hang out.

00:01:18Marc:I feel like we could talk more.

00:01:19Marc:I also feel like I'll never see him again.

00:01:21Marc:Maybe I'll see him at an award show, which I did see him at an award show.

00:01:24Marc:I saw him at...

00:01:26Marc:at the Critics Award Show, and then we talk about, I talk about my problem with approaching people at award shows, and it yields something at the end.

00:01:38Marc:So there's a tease for you.

00:01:41Marc:Something went down.

00:01:43Marc:You know what I'm saying?

00:01:43Marc:Do you?

00:01:44Marc:Yeah.

00:01:44Marc:How about an email?

00:01:46Marc:I got stories.

00:01:47Marc:I got things.

00:01:48Marc:I got comedy to do in a few hours.

00:01:51Marc:New York moment subject line.

00:01:53Marc:Hi, Mark.

00:01:53Marc:Just wanted to let you know I love the show.

00:01:55Marc:Like a lot of people our age, I'm 53.

00:01:57Marc:I've dealt with a lot of demons, ups and downs in my life, drinking too much and gambling on sport and in the biggest casino, the stock market.

00:02:04Marc:On an upward arc now.

00:02:06Marc:Saved marriage, curbed the boozing, stopped the gambling and working out on a regular basis.

00:02:11Marc:This leads me to my WTF moment.

00:02:13Marc:I'm working out, getting my sweat on at the local Equinox when this big dude asks to work in with me on a machine.

00:02:19Marc:I'm about 40 minutes into the workout and your interview with Ta-Nehisi Coates, which I'm really enjoying.

00:02:24Marc:I look up and there he is standing in front of me working his set of reps.

00:02:27Marc:I blurted out, you're Ta-Nehisi and you are talking to Marc Maron right now on my phone.

00:02:33Marc:in the garage in LA.

00:02:35Marc:Suffice it to say, I calmed down, had a chuckle and a nice chat with the guys we worked out.

00:02:40Marc:Classic WTF New York moment.

00:02:42Marc:Keep up the good work.

00:02:43Marc:Love the show.

00:02:45Marc:Well, that's fun, man.

00:02:47Marc:Good for you, Matt.

00:02:48Marc:I'm glad you got to meet that guy.

00:02:49Marc:He's a good guy.

00:02:50Marc:Oh, there was another email here that I thought was pretty funny.

00:02:53Marc:It was actually really ridiculous and funny.

00:02:57Marc:Where would that be?

00:02:58Marc:Where would that email be?

00:03:00Marc:Oh, here it is.

00:03:01Marc:Here it is.

00:03:02Marc:Mr. Groover.

00:03:03Marc:Mr. Groover is the subject line.

00:03:06Marc:I woke up early this morning and decided to finish listening to your interview of Laurie Kilmartin.

00:03:11Marc:At some point, you all began talking about Tim Robbins, and several times you both mentioned his role in Mr. Groover, which was directed by Clint Eastwood.

00:03:19Marc:I'd never heard of this role or this movie, so I did what I often do while listening to your podcast.

00:03:23Marc:I began to Google it.

00:03:25Marc:I finally gave up when I couldn't find any movie with Tim Robbins or Clint Eastwood with the name or character Mr. Groover.

00:03:32Marc:My husband and I...

00:03:33Marc:My husband and I have often discussed how when we listen to your podcast, we find ourselves going down rabbit holes, looking up stuff on the Internet.

00:03:40Marc:So when he woke up, I told him about my frustration and searching for Mr. Groover and coming up with nothing.

00:03:47Marc:I finally said the only movie I could find with Tim Robbins and Clint Eastwood was Mystic River.

00:03:52Marc:He looked at me like I was crazy and said, don't you think that's what they were saying?

00:03:58Marc:It took me a minute, but it ends up that Mystic River sounds a lot like Mr. Groover when you say them out loud.

00:04:05Marc:I felt pretty stupid, but was glad to have the mystery solved and we had a good little chuckle over it.

00:04:10Marc:I thought you would too.

00:04:12Marc:We both love your podcast.

00:04:13Marc:Thanks for providing us hours of meaningful entertainment and for sending us down many rabbit holes.

00:04:18Marc:Peace, Lisa.

00:04:19Marc:Mr. Groover.

00:04:20Marc:Okay.

00:04:22Marc:I've been trying to get exercise.

00:04:24Marc:I'm trying to work off the craft services that I indulged on in the last couple weeks of GLOW where I didn't give a fuck anymore.

00:04:30Marc:So I've been wanting to exercise.

00:04:32Marc:I've been wanting to run.

00:04:34Marc:My chest has been a little tight.

00:04:36Marc:The air has been a little shitty.

00:04:37Marc:But there are some hikes nearby to where I live now.

00:04:41Marc:And I didn't really know the hikes, but I went up to the place where they are.

00:04:45Marc:I went up to the park and...

00:04:48Marc:I lit out on one of these hikes, and I thought I was going in the right area.

00:04:52Marc:This happened fucking twice.

00:04:55Marc:Two different areas.

00:04:56Marc:I went up one hill, and then I'm like, I remember this being the hike, and I just hit this sort of strange dead end.

00:05:02Marc:And then I went up another area,

00:05:05Marc:And I went up there and then I found myself in a wooded zone going up a steeper than seemed right incline with not any new footprints around.

00:05:16Marc:And as I went up, I smelled the stench of rotting flesh.

00:05:21Marc:I swear to God, I smelled death up there.

00:05:25Marc:I didn't know what it was.

00:05:26Marc:It smelled like a decomposing animal of some kind up on this in this slight clearing but densely kind of weeded area up this incline.

00:05:38Marc:And once that smell hit me and I saw there was a drop off on the right side where something could have fell down there but I didn't see anything.

00:05:45Marc:But it was that moment where the panic overtook me.

00:05:48Marc:You can't even walk outside now.

00:05:51Marc:You can't not.

00:05:51Marc:I guess you can.

00:05:53Marc:But I was by myself.

00:05:54Marc:I was in a new place, a new park.

00:05:57Marc:There was no one else on the trail.

00:05:59Marc:And I smelled rotting flesh.

00:06:01Marc:And it could have been a person.

00:06:02Marc:But did I go?

00:06:03Marc:Did my curiosity take me up there?

00:06:05Marc:Did I say, you know, if that's a dead person up there that could be missing for a while, maybe I should go up there, check it out and reported if that's the case.

00:06:14Marc:Did I do that?

00:06:14Marc:No, I did not.

00:06:15Marc:I made the assumption it was probably an animal.

00:06:18Marc:If it was a dead body, I couldn't help that dead body.

00:06:22Marc:And if it was an animal, I didn't want to be next, but to be taken down by whatever killed that one.

00:06:28Marc:So without even doing any exploration, I ran down the hill in a panic.

00:06:33Marc:And then that panic spread.

00:06:35Marc:And I didn't know if I was going to get just jumped by a mountain lion or just the guy with the knife in the bushes.

00:06:42Marc:There was the sort of broad mountain lion guy in the bushes with a knife panic that one gets on a hike.

00:06:48Marc:I turned my music off and I'm just scrambling down this hill and something must have clicked my music on in my pocket because Elvis Costello's Beyond Belief just started out of nowhere.

00:07:00Marc:And I screamed out loud loud.

00:07:02Marc:I don't want to say a little girl because I don't want to be negative about little girls.

00:07:06Marc:I screamed out loud like a man who screams like you would think a woman might.

00:07:13Marc:Is that diplomatic enough?

00:07:16Marc:And then I realized it was a song, and then I turned the song off, and then I just caught my breath, put the shuffle on, and then Shine a Light by Spiritualized came on as I walked in to the setting sun out of the hike.

00:07:29Marc:So it had a happy ending, an uplifting ending, as a matter of fact, though there was a lot of shame involved in the hike itself.

00:07:35Marc:So that was an experience.

00:07:38Marc:And then I went to another new experience.

00:07:40Marc:I wanted to see if I could get fish for my cats.

00:07:43Marc:My cats have been enjoying these freeze-dried minnows that I bought at the pet store for too much money.

00:07:48Marc:And I thought, can't I just get that at some sort of Asian supermarket in bulk?

00:07:53Marc:Don't they have freeze-dried fish minnows that the Asians use in their meals?

00:07:59Marc:and i've seen that i think i think i've seen that in chinatown i know there's this place called uh the fish seafood market i think it's right over here in eagle rock i believe it's a filipino market but uh i went in there and you just have that experience they just had tons of fish man all kinds of whole fish fish heads they had oysters and clams they had things in tanks and

00:08:21Marc:They had a couple of bins of unfrozen anchovies and smelts.

00:08:26Marc:They had produce I had not seen before.

00:08:28Marc:It was just all filled with Filipino people and I think some people from Thailand.

00:08:34Marc:And all the products seemed different and it was exciting.

00:08:37Marc:That is the exciting thing about America is to go into a market that services a different community than you're from and go, oh my God, look at this thing.

00:08:47Marc:Oh, Jesus Christ.

00:08:49Marc:Maybe I should buy a durian.

00:08:51Marc:Maybe I need to try one of these.

00:08:53Marc:Look at the size of this thing.

00:08:54Marc:You open it up and it smells horrible, but it's really sweet.

00:08:58Marc:I've tried one.

00:08:59Marc:So I got some anchovies for the cats.

00:09:01Marc:They just scooped a big handful of raw anchovies, brought them back to three cats.

00:09:06Marc:None of them wanted anything to do with any of it.

00:09:09Marc:Monkey kicked it around, spreading the dead fish goo everywhere, stinking it up.

00:09:15Marc:So I threw those away, spent a dollar, threw it away.

00:09:19Marc:But I did get to go to the Filipino market.

00:09:21Marc:That's my point.

00:09:23Marc:Anyway, I made a mistake.

00:09:25Marc:This is a correction.

00:09:27Marc:A couple of weeks ago, I mentioned being at the SAG Awards and running into Chris Sullivan from This Is Us, who was standing about 10 feet away from Robert De Niro, who was sitting down talking to somebody else.

00:09:39Marc:And I doubled back because I wanted to try to say hi to Robert De Niro.

00:09:43Marc:I didn't really want to, but I thought I should because I was going to pass up the opportunity because I didn't know what to say.

00:09:49Marc:And I walked back and I saw a guy who I thought it was Chris Sullivan.

00:09:54Marc:And I introduced myself and I and then I asked him if he was waiting to talk to De Niro or if he was just standing here by coincidence.

00:10:02Marc:He goes and he's kind of he's waiting to talk to De Niro.

00:10:04Marc:I'm not getting online.

00:10:06Marc:Yeah.

00:10:06Marc:But, you know, it was just interesting seeing someone.

00:10:08Marc:I knew that that was what he was doing.

00:10:10Marc:But what I didn't know was that wasn't Chris Sullivan.

00:10:13Marc:It was Mike Houston from Orange is the New Black.

00:10:16Marc:So I contrived something there because I think they're both bearded and maybe lacking in the hair department.

00:10:23Marc:But nonetheless, I wanted to correct it because Mike Houston brought it to my attention on Twitter.

00:10:28Marc:And it was Mike Houston, not Chris Sullivan.

00:10:32Marc:And he didn't get to talk to him.

00:10:35Marc:That's the end of that story.

00:10:36Marc:Now, Tracy Letts, folks.

00:10:40Marc:He's in Lady Bird and The Post, both of which are in theaters now.

00:10:43Marc:He's also a playwright.

00:10:44Marc:Many plays.

00:10:45Marc:He's been in many movies.

00:10:47Marc:And we'll talk about that.

00:10:48Marc:But we also talk about talking to people or me talking to people at award shows.

00:10:53Marc:And that goes somewhere.

00:10:55Marc:All right.

00:10:55Marc:This is me and Tracy Letts.

00:11:04Marc:How you doing, Tracy?

00:11:05Marc:I'm good, Mark.

00:11:06Marc:How are you?

00:11:08Marc:Are you adjusting?

00:11:09Marc:Yeah, sure.

00:11:11Marc:Sure.

00:11:12Marc:Where's all your staff?

00:11:14Marc:There's no staff.

00:11:15Marc:Where were you led to believe?

00:11:17Marc:Did you just show up blindly?

00:11:18Marc:You had no idea what you were getting into?

00:11:21Marc:I knew that you ran a podcast out of your home in... In Highland Park?

00:11:26Marc:Somewhere in... In LA?

00:11:27Marc:Somewhere?

00:11:28Marc:That's all you knew?

00:11:29Marc:Yeah.

00:11:31Marc:I usually have a guy, but there's no necessity for the guy because to be honest with you, I never know who's coming with who and there's no place to put people.

00:11:40Marc:So I used to have a guy just to make sure that people didn't start going through my stuff.

00:11:44Marc:in the house but there's nothing in the house anymore so oh i see yeah so it's just me the garage remains intact because i haven't uh i haven't moved yet i don't know if it's nostalgia or or i'm just not willing to let go but this is the original place this is your gig yeah i'm sure now see now i'm hurt that like you know none of the people that that you know who have been in here have called you and said oh tracy you gotta you gotta go over to mark's house

00:12:08Guest:Nobody's done that.

00:12:09Guest:In fact, it kind of goes the opposite direction.

00:12:12Guest:I go, why hasn't Mark had me on?

00:12:15Guest:He's had all my friends on.

00:12:16Marc:Did you say that?

00:12:17Marc:Yeah, sure.

00:12:18Marc:I tried to get you on a long time ago, but I'm a fan of yours.

00:12:21Marc:It goes back.

00:12:22Marc:I like what you do.

00:12:23Marc:I feel like I know you.

00:12:24Marc:I don't know why that is.

00:12:26Marc:You're one of those people.

00:12:27Guest:We're roughly the same age.

00:12:28Marc:We are.

00:12:29Guest:We've had a long, slow, steady climb.

00:12:35Yeah.

00:12:35Marc:I think you've got a Pulitzer, so there's a big difference in our success rate.

00:12:41Marc:I'm hosting a podcast out of my garage and you have a Pulitzer.

00:12:44Guest:Yeah, but you're on like three television shows.

00:12:47Marc:Yeah, but you're in movies.

00:12:48Marc:I'm not going to do this with you.

00:12:53Marc:Because you won.

00:12:54Guest:You won that one.

00:12:56Marc:But, you know, we took different directions.

00:13:00Marc:Yeah, yeah, we did.

00:13:01Marc:But we're not, on a geographical level, we grew up in, I grew up in New Mexico.

00:13:06Marc:So part of my state, I think, hits the tip of your state, Oklahoma.

00:13:11Marc:Isn't the panhandle, doesn't that hit the corner of New Mexico, maybe?

00:13:13Marc:Yeah.

00:13:13Marc:See, that's Western Oklahoma.

00:13:17Guest:That's not my beat.

00:13:19Guest:It's totally different.

00:13:21Guest:No one knows what's going on in Western Oklahoma.

00:13:24Guest:No, Western Oklahoma is the flat desert part.

00:13:28Guest:Eastern Oklahoma, where I come from.

00:13:29Guest:The metropolis?

00:13:30Guest:Eastern Oklahoma, rolling hills.

00:13:32Guest:Yeah.

00:13:32Guest:Oh, that's right.

00:13:33Marc:That's right.

00:13:34Marc:So you did grow up there, the whole-

00:13:36Guest:Yeah, I was born in Tulsa and grew up in Durant, Oklahoma, a small town in southeastern Oklahoma.

00:13:42Marc:So now I you know, my sense of Oklahoma is not great.

00:13:48Marc:Yeah.

00:13:48Marc:And I I get that.

00:13:50Marc:Yeah.

00:13:50Marc:And, you know, I don't know what yours is, but I mean, how did you avoid the pitfalls of Oklahoma?

00:13:59Guest:Well, I didn't avoid them.

00:14:01Guest:I left.

00:14:02Guest:That's how I avoided them.

00:14:03Guest:I left.

00:14:04Guest:You know, the truth is that my folks were academics.

00:14:07Guest:My folks were English teachers, and I grew up around English teachers and English departments.

00:14:14Guest:Yeah, absolutely.

00:14:15Guest:They were teachers at the school?

00:14:16Guest:They taught at a small state college in Southeastern Oklahoma called Southeastern Oklahoma State University.

00:14:23Guest:Right.

00:14:23Guest:That's where they taught.

00:14:24Guest:But growing up, my dad was still pursuing his academic career.

00:14:28Guest:So we spent a couple of years in Champaign as he was getting his- Illinois?

00:14:33Guest:Advanced degree.

00:14:33Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:14:35Guest:And let's see, where else?

00:14:37Guest:Cape Girardeau, Missouri.

00:14:38Guest:He taught at Southeast Missouri State for a couple of years.

00:14:42Yeah.

00:14:42Guest:A year in Copenhagen.

00:14:44Guest:He was a Fulbright scholar.

00:14:45Marc:How old were you when you were in Copenhagen?

00:14:47Marc:Just born.

00:14:48Marc:Oh, so no recollection.

00:14:49Marc:Yeah.

00:14:50Marc:No imprint.

00:14:51Guest:The folks who were from Oklahoma were getting a little culture themselves.

00:14:55Guest:Yeah.

00:14:56Marc:Are both your parents from Oklahoma?

00:14:58Guest:Yeah, they both were.

00:14:59Guest:Yeah.

00:14:59Guest:Wow.

00:15:00Marc:You know, I just associate it with, you know, cowboys and genocide.

00:15:05Marc:Yeah.

00:15:07Guest:Well, you know, the roots of the state, there are actually great progressive roots in Oklahoma.

00:15:12Guest:Woody Guthrie's from Oklahoma.

00:15:14Guest:Will Rogers is from Oklahoma.

00:15:17Guest:Sure.

00:15:17Guest:Yeah.

00:15:17Marc:You know, there's I know I'm I'm being poorly judgmental.

00:15:21Marc:It's just, you know, it's the wrong thing.

00:15:24Marc:I've been to Oklahoma City.

00:15:25Marc:I know Wayne Coyne, who is the lead singer of the Flaming Lips.

00:15:29Marc:Sure.

00:15:29Marc:He's sort of a fixture there.

00:15:32Marc:Interesting guy.

00:15:33Marc:Seems like he's got an interesting world there.

00:15:35Marc:I'm not saying that it's not devoid of anything.

00:15:37Marc:I just don't rarely meet people from Oklahoma.

00:15:39Marc:Well, I did leave.

00:15:41Marc:Yeah.

00:15:41Marc:I left a long time ago.

00:15:43Marc:I know.

00:15:43Marc:But it's like in you, though, isn't it?

00:15:45Marc:Sure.

00:15:46Marc:Yeah.

00:15:46Marc:I mean, you can see it in the Osage County play.

00:15:50Marc:You know, that's what Oklahoma is to you.

00:15:52Guest:Yeah.

00:15:53Guest:That's true.

00:15:54Marc:It doesn't end well.

00:15:55Marc:It does not end well.

00:15:56Marc:That's true.

00:15:57Marc:Absolutely.

00:15:59Marc:So what kind of... Your mother was a English... We're in it.

00:16:03Guest:We're doing this.

00:16:04Guest:We're in the interview.

00:16:05Guest:Yeah.

00:16:05Guest:What did you think was happening?

00:16:06Guest:I don't know.

00:16:07Guest:It was just so seamless from stepping into the garage to suddenly talking about Oklahoma.

00:16:14Guest:You just realized it?

00:16:16Marc:That's why I'm known for it.

00:16:17Marc:I'm known for this.

00:16:18Marc:You've been doing this a long time, haven't you?

00:16:20Marc:Yeah.

00:16:20Marc:Damn, you're a pro.

00:16:21Marc:I had the thing running and everything.

00:16:22Marc:Turned it on earlier.

00:16:24Marc:We're going.

00:16:26Marc:But like, but so, well, obviously it had a lot to do with your parents.

00:16:31Marc:Like if you had grown up, you know, in a rodeo town, it would have been a different life for you.

00:16:35Marc:That's right.

00:16:35Marc:That was not what happened.

00:16:36Guest:The folks were, they were readers.

00:16:39Guest:Yeah.

00:16:39Guest:The house was filled with books.

00:16:40Guest:But your mom was the writer, right?

00:16:42Guest:She was.

00:16:42Guest:Both the folks had second careers after teaching school.

00:16:46Guest:My mom...

00:16:48Guest:was a writer and pursuing that for a long time while she was still teaching school and then she got a book published and then oprah picked it up for her book life changer and it was a life changer she's best-selling author retired from teaching school my dad took early retirement and followed me into acting i had taken up acting at that point he'd always been amateur actor in community theater and college theater but he started pursuing it professionally in his 50s and made about 40 films and tv shows worked quite a bit really

00:17:17Guest:yeah you cast him right i did eventually but i mean he had already had quite a career by that i mean he's in stuff you would know like cast away yeah i know you only think of tom hanks on the island but no he was on the plane he's in the uh there's a there's a scene like a christmas dinner thanksgiving dinner or something he's the patriarch at the head of the table and oh really yeah he did played a lot of sheriff after after after tom hanks comes home maybe even before he goes like the last time he sees helen hunt

00:17:45Guest:So wait, so your dad's out here in Hollywood?

00:17:47Guest:Well, they've both passed away.

00:17:49Guest:Both folks have passed away.

00:17:50Guest:But dad, they were making a lot of movies and TV shows in Texas at the time.

00:17:56Guest:So he would drive down to Austin and Dallas and Houston.

00:18:01Guest:He'd drive all over the place to go to these auditions and book jobs.

00:18:05Guest:He did it.

00:18:05Guest:Yeah, he did.

00:18:06Guest:He became like a two or three line character actor.

00:18:09Guest:He did.

00:18:09Guest:Or even sometimes a little more than that.

00:18:12Guest:Yeah?

00:18:12Guest:Yeah.

00:18:12Guest:He was really good.

00:18:14Marc:Yeah.

00:18:15Guest:I mean, I wouldn't have put him in Osage if he wasn't really good.

00:18:17Marc:He was in the original cast of that.

00:18:19Marc:Yeah.

00:18:20Marc:And was he in the film too?

00:18:21Marc:He's not in the film.

00:18:22Marc:That was Sam Shepard played his part?

00:18:24Marc:That's correct.

00:18:24Marc:Sam Shepard.

00:18:26Marc:You like Sam Shepard.

00:18:27Marc:Sure.

00:18:27Marc:Yeah.

00:18:28Marc:All right.

00:18:28Marc:So we'll get back to Shepard because I...

00:18:31Marc:I felt like there was, like I try to figure out, like when I was in college or when I was watching plays and thinking about writing plays and being in plays myself, I think we might have had the same trajectory had I not taken the easier route in just being funny for people.

00:18:50Marc:Like had I had the confidence to- Yeah, because stand up, that's a real easy route.

00:18:54Marc:Yeah, but it's very impulsive.

00:18:55Marc:You have a lot of control.

00:18:57Marc:It's very immediate.

00:18:58Marc:And you don't have to do much work if you do it right.

00:19:01Marc:Right?

00:19:02Marc:But to write a play, you've got to believe that.

00:19:04Marc:I thought we weren't going to compare like this, Mark.

00:19:06Guest:No, we're not.

00:19:06Guest:I've already admitted.

00:19:07Guest:We have both staggered blindly from one gig to the next for our entire adult lives.

00:19:13Guest:Right.

00:19:13Marc:And we're both nominated for SAG Awards.

00:19:15Marc:I'll meet you there.

00:19:17Marc:I did it.

00:19:18Marc:I got a nomination.

00:19:19Marc:I did.

00:19:20Guest:Are you nominated for a SAG award?

00:19:21Guest:Yeah.

00:19:21Guest:You're there tomorrow night.

00:19:22Marc:I am.

00:19:23Guest:What are you nominated for?

00:19:24Marc:For my best male in a comedy for Glow.

00:19:27Guest:Fantastic.

00:19:28Marc:Yeah.

00:19:29Marc:Yeah.

00:19:29Marc:That's fantastic.

00:19:30Marc:It came to me late.

00:19:31Marc:You know, the acting thing.

00:19:32Marc:It just, you know, it was always there, but it was never.

00:19:34Guest:That's great.

00:19:35Marc:I, you know, I, it's, but.

00:19:37Marc:Are you going to win?

00:19:38Marc:I don't think so.

00:19:39Marc:I find that hard to believe that this late in the game.

00:19:42Guest:You think you've got a chance.

00:19:43Guest:Because if you didn't think you had a chance, your answer would have been, no fucking way am I going to win that award.

00:19:47Marc:Well, you know, I'm trying to be transparent here.

00:19:50Marc:My ego would like to think I could win, but I don't know if I can win.

00:19:52Marc:I'm up against the Will and Grace guy and Larry David.

00:19:55Marc:Write a speech.

00:19:56Marc:Yeah?

00:19:57Marc:Yeah.

00:19:58Marc:why don't we do it together i i do you have to thank like i you know do you thank your agents for everything i i thought maybe i'd just thank the writers and uh the my co-stars and uh uh talk about like uh i'm happy i bought a suit uh acknowledge the other nominees

00:20:15Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:20:16Guest:Good one.

00:20:17Marc:Yeah.

00:20:17Marc:I'll write that down.

00:20:18Guest:Hey, you know.

00:20:19Guest:You got to write it, though.

00:20:20Guest:These people who get up and say, you know, I didn't think I could win, so I didn't write anything.

00:20:24Guest:It's like, well, you put on the fucking suit.

00:20:25Guest:Right.

00:20:26Guest:You stood in the line with everybody.

00:20:27Guest:Yeah.

00:20:28Guest:You sat at the table.

00:20:29Guest:Yeah, you should have put.

00:20:29Guest:You really didn't think there was a possibility.

00:20:31Guest:Throw a couple things together.

00:20:32Guest:Have you written something?

00:20:34Guest:No, because we're nominated for Ensemble, so I wouldn't be the one to talk.

00:20:37Marc:I'm nominated for that, too, for GLOW.

00:20:39Guest:Nice.

00:20:40Guest:But we're in different categories, right?

00:20:42Guest:Oh, yeah, because yours is TV.

00:20:44Marc:Oh, okay.

00:20:44Marc:Yeah, fine.

00:20:45Marc:You had to find a way.

00:20:47Marc:Just shut me down.

00:20:48Marc:All right.

00:20:50Marc:We were on the same level there for a minute, and now I'm on television.

00:20:56Marc:I've seen you on television.

00:20:58Marc:You like television.

00:20:59Marc:Yeah, I'm on TV, too.

00:21:00Marc:Sure.

00:21:00Marc:But let's get back to my original point, which was you're doing the noble, literate, creative pursuit.

00:21:08Marc:You're a playwright.

00:21:09Guest:Yeah, no, it wasn't like that.

00:21:11Guest:I went to Chicago.

00:21:13Guest:How old?

00:21:14Guest:20 years old.

00:21:15Marc:Now, what had you done before then, acting-wise?

00:21:18Guest:uh i had gone to dallas for a couple of years with my little headshot and resume trying to get work that was the that was that was did someone misdirect you did you well it's close to home i want to be an actor i'm going to dallas it was 100 miles from home i could go home on the weekends and my mom would do my laundry so this is before you're like 20 this is in your late teens you go to dallas i didn't go to college i went to dallas headshot and resume and tried to

00:21:43Guest:tried to work dallas man i got no sense of that down but that was like so it still had a profile had some money still dallas at that time in the 80s they made a lot of movies and tv shows in dallas they were touting it as the third coast they brought this big goddamn soundstage out at las colinas and every year there was a places in the heart or uh

00:22:04Marc:Right.

00:22:05Marc:They must have given a tax break.

00:22:06Guest:Tender Mercies.

00:22:07Guest:Every year, that kind of stuff was rolling out of Dallas.

00:22:09Guest:Oh, what a great movie that is.

00:22:10Guest:Yeah.

00:22:10Guest:There was some great stuff happening there.

00:22:11Guest:So I went there, but I didn't work.

00:22:13Guest:I couldn't get arrested.

00:22:14Guest:I worked in the theater a little bit.

00:22:15Guest:Fringe Theater in Dallas.

00:22:17Marc:Really?

00:22:18Marc:Fringe Theater in Dallas?

00:22:19Guest:Yeah.

00:22:19Marc:Like Black Box Theater?

00:22:20Guest:Yeah.

00:22:21Marc:Doing what?

00:22:21Marc:Doing Beckett?

00:22:22Guest:When You Coming Back, Red Rider by Mark Medoff.

00:22:26Marc:Uh-huh.

00:22:26Guest:Uh-huh.

00:22:27Guest:And The Glass Menagerie at Mesquite Community Theater.

00:22:32Guest:Ooh.

00:22:33Guest:How was that production?

00:22:34Marc:It's all right.

00:22:35Marc:Yeah.

00:22:35Marc:But you had no training at that time?

00:22:38Guest:No, no, no.

00:22:39Guest:You just winging it?

00:22:40Guest:Pretty much.

00:22:41Guest:I mean, I had done a year.

00:22:44Guest:When I was a senior in high school, we could take classes at the college where my folks taught.

00:22:49Guest:So we did that, did some shows.

00:22:51Guest:But yeah, pretty much winging it.

00:22:53Marc:so dallas didn't didn't no show business dreams didn't pan out in dallas no and uh a girlfriend of mine moved to chicago oh and i didn't take the cue so i followed her up to chicago that's always what i'm sure it's what she wanted i'm sure she was thrilled like oh tracy strange we're no longer together but i followed her up to you're the guy that stalked her i knew that guy

00:23:18Marc:That's what she'll be saying at the awards show when she's watching on TV.

00:23:21Marc:That's that guy.

00:23:23Marc:Do you know her still?

00:23:26Marc:I know who she is, but we don't keep in touch.

00:23:30Marc:Not since the restraining order?

00:23:33Guest:So I went to Chicago.

00:23:35Guest:I fell in love with the city.

00:23:36Guest:I fell in love with the theater scene in Chicago.

00:23:38Guest:I'd never seen anything like it.

00:23:40Marc:How did it start?

00:23:41Marc:Because I just talked to Lori.

00:23:43Marc:Like, it's sort of been a mystery to me how Steppenwolf started, you know, this mythic place of, you know, anger and creativity.

00:23:52Marc:And, you know, and then like when I heard that you were kind of part of that, I'm like, well, that makes sense.

00:23:56Marc:He's a furious man that writes dark things.

00:24:00Marc:And...

00:24:01Marc:but I never got the whole history that they were just kids, but you were later, a little later.

00:24:06Marc:I'm later.

00:24:06Guest:They're all, all those kids are about 10 years older than me.

00:24:09Marc:So when you get there, do you seek that out?

00:24:11Marc:Are you just like, I'm in Chicago?

00:24:13Marc:Was it like, do I go to Second City and watch the clowns or do I go watch the serious shit?

00:24:17Guest:That's right.

00:24:18Guest:It's running around auditioning for different theaters.

00:24:20Guest:There's a great theater culture there.

00:24:22Guest:There's a great,

00:24:22Marc:Great life show culture.

00:24:24Guest:Oh, my God.

00:24:24Guest:Yeah, there's 200 storefront theaters, and they're all doing great, interesting work, and they're all doing it for the right reasons.

00:24:31Guest:You know, nobody's doing it to get famous.

00:24:32Marc:So this is the late 80s?

00:24:34Marc:Yeah.

00:24:34Marc:Uh-huh.

00:24:35Marc:Uh-huh.

00:24:36Marc:Vital.

00:24:36Marc:Still vital.

00:24:37Guest:And the first show I did in Chicago was The Glass Menagerie.

00:24:41Marc:Again.

00:24:42Guest:Again.

00:24:42Guest:You already knew the line.

00:24:43Guest:Same part?

00:24:44Guest:Same part.

00:24:44Guest:Oh, lucky you.

00:24:45Guest:And at Steppenwolf.

00:24:47Guest:I did it at Steppenwolf.

00:24:48Guest:It was part of their shows for high school kids.

00:24:52Guest:oh so you were like 19 20 like i was early 20s so you went in for the young people auditions or pretty much uh-huh yeah crashed the young people auditions and who was directing it anybody famous francis gynan yeah a very good actor who's uh who was in august osage county the original cast he was directing it and he cast me in the show

00:25:11Marc:And that began your relationship with Steppenwolf?

00:25:14Guest:Yeah.

00:25:14Guest:Though, I mean, that was 88.

00:25:16Guest:Yeah.

00:25:17Guest:And they didn't add me to the company until 2002.

00:25:20Guest:So there was a long... They really made you work for it.

00:25:23Guest:About as long as they made anybody ever work for it.

00:25:26Marc:Really?

00:25:27Guest:Yeah.

00:25:27Marc:Yeah.

00:25:27Marc:So how are you persisting then?

00:25:30Marc:So you get cast at 20 in the Tennessee Williams play at Steppenwolf.

00:25:34Marc:So you're like, I'm in.

00:25:36Marc:And then what happens?

00:25:36Guest:Then I'm not in.

00:25:39Guest:And so I have to go work other places.

00:25:41Guest:And I worked, you know, again, Chicago is a great theater town.

00:25:45Guest:And I was meeting a lot of people, working up at the next theater in Evanston, which is where I met Michael Shannon.

00:25:51Guest:Yeah.

00:25:51Guest:He was 16 and I was 25.

00:25:53Guest:Really?

00:25:54Guest:We were team friends.

00:25:55Guest:Yeah.

00:25:56Marc:He was that young, I can't remember.

00:25:57Marc:He was kind of intense and aggravated about things when I talked to him.

00:26:02Marc:I think he probably told me.

00:26:03Guest:That doesn't sound like mine.

00:26:04Marc:I know, it's crazy, right?

00:26:06Marc:I was totally surprised by it.

00:26:08Marc:I thought he'd be chipper when he came over and full of focus.

00:26:12Marc:He's still a dear friend of mine.

00:26:13Guest:He's a lovely guy.

00:26:14Marc:I love talking to him.

00:26:16Marc:And I just saw him in The Shape of Water.

00:26:17Marc:I thought he was great.

00:26:18Marc:He's always great.

00:26:18Marc:Yeah.

00:26:19Marc:He's always great.

00:26:19Marc:Yeah.

00:26:20Marc:Yeah.

00:26:20Marc:And I saw him in your movie.

00:26:21Marc:I watched that because I talked to Friedkin in here, but we're not there yet.

00:26:24Marc:I want to know.

00:26:25Marc:Friedkin came in here and talked for two and a half hours.

00:26:29Marc:And he had, there was a theme to it.

00:26:32Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:26:34Marc:There was a through line that you didn't realize until the end of the conversation that he just laid it out.

00:26:42Marc:It was fate.

00:26:43Marc:Yeah.

00:26:43Marc:Fate was the through line.

00:26:45Guest:Hurricane Billy.

00:26:47Guest:There's a reason they call him Hurricane Billy.

00:26:48Guest:He's inevitable.

00:26:49Guest:Yeah.

00:26:50Marc:Yeah.

00:26:50Marc:You just sit there and like, oh, my God.

00:26:52Marc:And everything's connected with him.

00:26:54Marc:You know what I mean?

00:26:54Marc:There's a lot of connections.

00:26:55Guest:Yeah.

00:26:56Guest:Also a dear friend of mine, lovely man.

00:26:58Marc:I'm not saying anything bad about the guy.

00:27:00Marc:It was one of the best episodes.

00:27:01Marc:Is my tone coming out wrong?

00:27:07Marc:These were impressive conversations.

00:27:08Marc:Great.

00:27:09Marc:I got a little concerned with Michael because I didn't know if he was going to fall into himself and I wouldn't know how to fish him out.

00:27:15Marc:But I kept him out here.

00:27:16Guest:Well, I met him when he was 16 and I was 25.

00:27:19Guest:He played my son, even though there's nine years difference.

00:27:22Guest:In what?

00:27:22Guest:I've always looked a little older.

00:27:24Guest:A couple of...

00:27:25Guest:One act's called Fun and Nobody by Howard Corder.

00:27:28Marc:Yeah.

00:27:29Guest:At the Next Lab Theater.

00:27:31Guest:And who was involved in that?

00:27:32Guest:Anybody who came out of that?

00:27:33Guest:Was that a theater company?

00:27:35Guest:The Next was a company in Evanston for a long, long time.

00:27:39Guest:Yeah.

00:27:39Guest:And the Next Lab was the brainchild of a guy named Dexter Bullard, a great theater director in Chicago.

00:27:45Guest:It was basically a classroom that he painted black, seated about 40 people.

00:27:50Guest:There was a lot of really good work that happened in that space.

00:27:53Guest:Huh.

00:27:53Guest:Mike and I did Fun and Nobody, and then that's where Killer Joe started.

00:27:57Guest:How did that start?

00:28:00Guest:Well, I found myself with some downtime as an actor in Chicago, and I wrote a play.

00:28:05Marc:And you're 22?

00:28:06Marc:26.

00:28:08Marc:26?

00:28:09Marc:Yeah.

00:28:10Marc:So this is like years after The Glass Menagerie.

00:28:12Guest:Yeah, a few years after.

00:28:13Marc:And you've been kicking around.

00:28:15Guest:Yeah.

00:28:15Marc:And you meet Shannon.

00:28:16Marc:Yeah.

00:28:17Marc:Kindred spirits.

00:28:17Marc:This guy seems to have a chip on his shoulder.

00:28:20Marc:Me too.

00:28:21Yeah.

00:28:21Guest:Yeah.

00:28:22Guest:Yeah.

00:28:22Guest:All that's true.

00:28:23Guest:Yeah.

00:28:24Guest:So I wrote this play, this kind of horror noir play, and we put it up at the next lab, 40-seat house.

00:28:34Guest:Yeah.

00:28:35Guest:And it did really well.

00:28:37Guest:It did.

00:28:37Guest:Yeah.

00:28:38Marc:There was an intensity to it.

00:28:40Marc:That's for sure.

00:28:41Marc:Yeah.

00:28:41Marc:But what inspired that?

00:28:42Marc:I mean, why that story?

00:28:44Marc:Were you experimenting or was it coming from, like, I always, because, like, I thought about, like, I didn't, you remember the movie, Joe, with Peter Boyle?

00:28:52Marc:Sure.

00:28:53Marc:It's a horrifying movie.

00:28:54Marc:Yeah.

00:28:55Marc:But your thing, the layers of it, it's all, it's pretty relentless and pretty awful.

00:29:00Marc:Yeah.

00:29:01Marc:In a good way.

00:29:01Guest:You ever seen it in the theater?

00:29:03Guest:I have not.

00:29:04Marc:See, it's different.

00:29:05Guest:Well, I didn't want to see it.

00:29:06Marc:I can't wait.

00:29:07Marc:I didn't, was it out here?

00:29:08Guest:It was, yeah, it played out here.

00:29:10Marc:When?

00:29:11Marc:Oh, I don't know.

00:29:11Marc:A few years ago.

00:29:12Marc:Look, I saw Osage in New York with Estelle Parsons.

00:29:15Marc:Does that mean anything?

00:29:16Guest:It means a lot.

00:29:17Marc:All right.

00:29:19Guest:It has nothing to do with whether or not you saw Killer J. I want to see a high school production of Killer J. Yeah, it had a certain intensity.

00:29:28Marc:Was that the first play you wrote?

00:29:29Marc:Yeah.

00:29:30Marc:And what...

00:29:31Marc:Now, you just sat down and did it.

00:29:34Marc:You had done enough plays that you sort of knew what needed to be.

00:29:38Marc:You just winged it.

00:29:39Guest:I don't know.

00:29:40Guest:I had an idea for a story.

00:29:42Guest:I read a story in the newspaper.

00:29:43Guest:I was like, oh, this might make an interesting play.

00:29:45Guest:I wonder if you could tell a story like this on stage.

00:29:50Guest:Yeah.

00:29:50Guest:You know, Chicago, we were known for... Pushing the envelope?

00:29:53Guest:Yeah, smash mouth, in your face, whatever the hell cliche you want to use.

00:29:58Guest:We were known for that stuff, so it was written in that mold.

00:30:01Marc:Yeah, the sort of Malkovich fury that hung over Chicago.

00:30:07Guest:I was a troubled, angry person.

00:30:09Guest:What were you pissed off about?

00:30:10Guest:I have no... Don't even... I can't even answer the question.

00:30:14Marc:I don't know.

00:30:15Marc:Yeah.

00:30:15Marc:Because I thought you would be angrier.

00:30:17Marc:You mean now?

00:30:18Marc:Yeah.

00:30:18Marc:We get old, yeah.

00:30:20Marc:Oh, no, no, no.

00:30:21Marc:I'm very old now.

00:30:22Marc:52.

00:30:23Marc:Yeah.

00:30:23Marc:I'm 54.

00:30:24Marc:Yeah.

00:30:25Marc:And I was angrier when I was younger, too.

00:30:27Marc:Sure.

00:30:28Marc:Like, really bad.

00:30:29Guest:Yeah.

00:30:29Marc:Like, you know, yelling at people.

00:30:30Marc:Isn't it silly?

00:30:32Marc:Yeah, it is silly in retrospect.

00:30:34Marc:I was all worked up about a lot of things that don't matter anymore.

00:30:37Yeah.

00:30:37Guest:Yeah.

00:30:41Marc:And like I can track a lot of the anger, you know, but a lot of it, I don't, I don't know how, you know, valid it is or what, you know, if it's really, there's any way to empathize with my, my entitled anger.

00:30:53Marc:Yeah.

00:30:54Marc:Do you find that you were angry about like real shit?

00:30:57Marc:you don't know i don't know i don't know i was drunk you know i i got sober about three weeks after killer joe uh premiered forever yeah really so you were fucked up yeah and you got you did it the the old school way yeah oh yeah still yeah good for you yeah me too 18 years

00:31:16Guest:24 years.

00:31:17Marc:All right, see, there we go again.

00:31:19Marc:You know, maybe we did, we were on the same thing.

00:31:22Marc:Similar track.

00:31:23Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:31:25Marc:It's got to jump on me on that one.

00:31:27Marc:I had a little more experimenting to do, as they say in the racket.

00:31:31Marc:so all right so you got sober like so but whoa man how do you like it always amazes me when people like hit the wall in their 20s yeah you just knew you're like oh this can't yeah yeah i was i was you know hurting a lot of people hurting myself oh yeah yeah right just got to a point where i mean thank god you know yeah did you used to smoke too

00:31:55Guest:Hell yeah.

00:31:56Guest:Right?

00:31:56Marc:Yeah.

00:31:57Marc:Yeah.

00:31:57Marc:You did it all.

00:31:58Marc:Marlboro Reds?

00:31:59Marc:Yeah, I smoked Marlboro Reds, among other things.

00:32:05Marc:All out.

00:32:06Marc:Yeah, sure.

00:32:06Marc:And Chicago's a fucking meat and drink in town.

00:32:09Marc:Yes, it is.

00:32:10Marc:It's just like everywhere.

00:32:12Marc:You just walk down the street and there should be signs that say, cancer available here, heart disease, come on in.

00:32:18Marc:It's true.

00:32:19Marc:End your life in here.

00:32:20Marc:Yeah.

00:32:21Marc:But I love that place, so I grew to like Chicago.

00:32:23Marc:Yeah, it's a great city.

00:32:23Marc:So you sobered up, and then how did that go?

00:32:26Marc:Did you adjust to it?

00:32:29Marc:It took a while, right?

00:32:30Guest:Yeah, it's a process.

00:32:32Guest:Yeah.

00:32:32Marc:Process I'm still in, right, after some fashion.

00:32:36Marc:Sure, sure, sure.

00:32:38Marc:The obsession is no longer with you, but whatever you were hiding...

00:32:42Guest:Whatever that thing is that makes you become that person to begin with, you're still that person.

00:32:47Marc:Yeah, it's awful.

00:32:48Marc:Itchy, itchy soul.

00:32:51Marc:Aggravated.

00:32:52Marc:So what happens with Killer Joe?

00:32:56Guest:Well, everybody in town panned it, except for Richard Christensen in the Chicago Tribune.

00:33:02Guest:Yeah.

00:33:02Guest:He championed it, so it became a big, fat hit.

00:33:04Marc:Wow.

00:33:05Guest:And ran... I mean, you know... And he moved it to a bigger place?

00:33:08Guest:We didn't immediately move it to a bigger place.

00:33:10Guest:We ran there for about eight months, and then we raised the money to take the show to the Edinburgh Festival in Scotland.

00:33:16Guest:Yes.

00:33:17Guest:Fringe Fest?

00:33:18Guest:oh you did that i did that once i'll never do it again we took it to the traverse theater yeah french fest and man killed yeah it just killed and from there it went to the bush theater in london which is a great pub theater in london and from there it went to the west end and played in the west end for four months

00:33:38Marc:Well, they love American stuff, and that is so brutally fucking bloodily American.

00:33:44Marc:Yeah.

00:33:45Guest:They must have been like, this is what it's like.

00:33:47Guest:They loved it.

00:33:47Guest:And the timing of it there in the early 90s, mid-90s when it hit.

00:33:52Guest:The timing was really good.

00:33:53Guest:Who originated the role?

00:33:57Guest:In the original production, Michael Shannon, Paul Dillon, a very fine actor, played Killer Joe.

00:34:04Guest:shauna franks holly wantuck mark nelson yeah and we replaced paul with a guy named eric wins and reed when we went to uh to london so that was it that you were a big playwright boom out of the gate yeah i was i didn't kind of realize that until i went to london yeah where the show was happening i was like oh shit this is kind of blown up a little bit over here it's the real deal you're not even 30 and you're the real deal

00:34:28Guest:And we became friendly with a little theater company over there, the Gate Theater in Notting Hill.

00:34:35Guest:And they said, will you write another one for us with your same group of people?

00:34:39Guest:So I wrote Bug.

00:34:40Guest:I wrote it with Mike in mind.

00:34:42Guest:We, again, put together a similar kind of cast.

00:34:45Guest:And the play actually premiered in London at the Gate Theater.

00:34:48Marc:Another festering American play.

00:34:51Guest:Written while sober, though.

00:34:53Marc:Yeah.

00:34:54Marc:Yeah.

00:34:55Marc:Odd.

00:34:56Marc:Yeah.

00:34:57Marc:Or not.

00:34:58Marc:No, that actually makes sense, right?

00:35:00Marc:Yeah.

00:35:01Marc:Just coming out of it.

00:35:02Marc:Yeah.

00:35:02Marc:When everything becomes clear.

00:35:04Marc:I see it all now, man.

00:35:08Guest:Yeah.

00:35:09Guest:So I was continuing to work in theater in Chicago and Steppenwolf came calling around this time and they put me in a play called Picasso at the Le Pan Agile by Steve Martin.

00:35:19Marc:Uh-huh.

00:35:19Guest:which was a big hit for us.

00:35:22Guest:And we brought it to Los Angeles.

00:35:23Guest:For Steppenwolf.

00:35:24Guest:Yeah.

00:35:25Guest:And ran at the, what is now the Geffen Playhouse.

00:35:28Guest:Ran there for a year.

00:35:30Marc:So, but they didn't let you in the company yet.

00:35:32Marc:You got two hit plays.

00:35:33Marc:You're an established playwright.

00:35:34Marc:You're like 30 years old.

00:35:36Marc:You're sober.

00:35:36Marc:And they're like, you want to do a part in the clown's play?

00:35:38Marc:Yeah, that's exactly right.

00:35:42Marc:And who was running fucking Steppenwolf at that time?

00:35:44Marc:And I'm not trying to bait you into getting retroactively aggravated for them making you wait.

00:35:50Guest:I'm not actually aggravated about it.

00:35:52Marc:I know.

00:35:53Guest:I might have been then, but I don't recall it.

00:35:56Marc:Oh, that's good.

00:35:57Marc:See, that's age.

00:35:58Marc:That's age helping you out.

00:35:59Guest:Yeah, I'm not cursed with these things you people call memories.

00:36:03Marc:Yeah, they're the worst.

00:36:05Marc:It's fun when they leave.

00:36:06Marc:I've lived in several different cities.

00:36:08Marc:When people walk up to me, they're like, hey, Mark.

00:36:10Marc:I'm like, what time frame?

00:36:11Marc:Which city?

00:36:12Marc:Give me an era, if you could.

00:36:15Marc:And did I do anything bad?

00:36:17Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:36:18Guest:What did I do to you?

00:36:19Marc:Yeah, right.

00:36:20Marc:Yeah, that's always a good question.

00:36:22Marc:All right, so you do the Picasso play.

00:36:24Marc:Is that a good play?

00:36:25Guest:that's a lot of fun yeah yeah you were a fun guy now that you're sober i don't know about that yeah uh but you know it was a good gig i got to you know join the union i went equity oh you came out here came out here and joined the union and we had my first real experience in los angeles what happened that time not much no no did you what did you go do you haven't did you get an agent out here yeah you know i went and i did a home improvement

00:36:50Marc:See, there's the question.

00:36:52Marc:Now, what happened that day?

00:36:53Marc:Like, here you are, West End, you have two plays, Steppenwolf, you're a respected literary man, and you're like, you go meet an agent, and they're like, hey, you know, we got a thing where we can send you out on the thing.

00:37:07Guest:Let's see what happens.

00:37:08Guest:Yeah, going on Home Improvement.

00:37:09Marc:And you're like...

00:37:11Guest:And I did it.

00:37:13Guest:Of course you did it.

00:37:14Marc:Oh, is that how we're going to?

00:37:15Guest:No, it was.

00:37:16Guest:It was totally.

00:37:17Guest:I mean, it was a nice little part.

00:37:19Guest:And Tim Allen was a sweetheart.

00:37:20Guest:He was a real sweetheart to all the people on the show.

00:37:23Guest:It was a big show.

00:37:24Guest:It was a sweet paycheck for me.

00:37:27Guest:I'd never made a paycheck like that before.

00:37:29Marc:See, that's it, right?

00:37:30Marc:That's the thing.

00:37:30Marc:You had a full character arc or just a half a show?

00:37:36Guest:I had one nice scene.

00:37:37Guest:I had one nice scene playing a kind of eccentric character with his wife.

00:37:42Guest:I can't remember her name.

00:37:43Marc:And that got you into the union and everything.

00:37:45Guest:Yeah, all that kind of stuff.

00:37:46Marc:And did it whet your whistle?

00:37:48Marc:Were you like, I'm coming out here.

00:37:50Marc:I'm going to do more episodic television.

00:37:52Guest:I didn't really think of it like that, though that's exactly what happened.

00:37:59Guest:I moved, I went back to Chicago and did some more plays in Chicago.

00:38:05Guest:And then me and my girlfriend in Chicago moved out here in 97, in the fall of 97.

00:38:12Guest:And I did four years in Los Angeles from 97 to 2001.

00:38:15Guest:Yeah.

00:38:15Marc:So you did a few plays acting in Chicago.

00:38:18Marc:You move out with your girlfriend who did not become your wife.

00:38:21Guest:She passed away.

00:38:22Guest:Oh, sorry.

00:38:23Guest:It's all right.

00:38:24Guest:She passed away about four months after we moved out here.

00:38:26Marc:Oh, my God.

00:38:27Guest:Yeah.

00:38:28Guest:What happened?

00:38:29Guest:She had a congenital heart condition.

00:38:32Guest:She had a stroke.

00:38:32Guest:32 years old.

00:38:33Guest:We were both 32.

00:38:34Guest:That's horrible.

00:38:35Guest:Yes, it was.

00:38:36Guest:It is.

00:38:38Guest:Coming up on the 20-year anniversary of that, I'm very conscious of that anniversary.

00:38:42Guest:Yeah.

00:38:43Marc:Of her death.

00:38:44Guest:yeah hell yeah oh my god so you had to deal with that yeah and i stayed i don't i you know i stayed in los angeles i came out of here we we lived out here for four months she died and then i i don't know i just didn't like going back to chicago didn't make sense to me so i stayed did you have friends out here yeah i had quite a few friends from chicago who had moved out here

00:39:07Marc:Oh, okay.

00:39:08Marc:Yeah, because this can be a very lonely, isolating place.

00:39:12Guest:It's lonely and isolating even when you have friends out here.

00:39:15Marc:Yeah.

00:39:15Marc:So you're dealing with this shock and grief and mortality thing?

00:39:20Guest:Yeah.

00:39:21Guest:Oh, my God.

00:39:22Guest:So I come out here and I did more of that stuff.

00:39:26Guest:I did a Seinfeld episode.

00:39:27Guest:I'm in the Festivus episode of Seinfeld.

00:39:30Guest:Right.

00:39:30Guest:I did...

00:39:32Guest:Profiler.

00:39:34Guest:Yeah.

00:39:34Guest:I did, you know.

00:39:35Guest:Yeah.

00:39:35Guest:The district.

00:39:37Guest:You're working.

00:39:38Guest:You're getting little parts.

00:39:39Guest:I'm getting little parts.

00:39:40Guest:Doing little guest spots.

00:39:41Marc:And like, who are your friends?

00:39:42Marc:Were you surrounded by successful people when you were out here?

00:39:46Guest:I was surrounded by really talented people, some of whom were working, some not.

00:39:50Guest:But no, not...

00:39:51Guest:no names that are going to make you go, wow.

00:39:55Guest:Yeah.

00:39:55Guest:I mean, Mike was starting to, starting to work quite a bit as an actor, though.

00:40:00Guest:Certainly.

00:40:00Guest:I don't think people would have recognized him right down the street.

00:40:03Marc:It's so like, to me, like to, you know, there's something impressive yet heartbreaking about, uh,

00:40:08Marc:you know, the, the evolution of it, you know, you, you both ended up great, you know, but to think of like, you know, like you and Michael Shannon, people who, who do very, you know, specific and, and, and amazing work, uh, you know, kind of like hitting the fucking, you know, the, the, the, the, the streets that, to go do little bit parts.

00:40:27Marc:I'm glad you made it out.

00:40:29Marc:I'm glad you got, I'm glad you got to where you got.

00:40:31Marc:Thanks.

00:40:31Marc:i mean nick offerman too i mentioned him only because he's been on your show yeah nick uh you know that little production we did of killer joe in the next lab nick built the set he likes to build things man nick built the trailer he's got a whole shop out here yeah oh yeah yeah he makes very talented guy yeah he makes he likes making furniture i think that's what he does now almost i don't know if he's i think he's out of the business well i think it might be he might be just making furniture

00:40:57Marc:I tell you, Tracy, when I hear stories like that, I'm like, good for you.

00:41:02Marc:Yeah, no shit.

00:41:03Marc:You got out without the shame and you're okay with yourself?

00:41:07Marc:You got out and you don't consider yourself a failure?

00:41:11Marc:Congratulations.

00:41:13Marc:You did it.

00:41:14Marc:You did it.

00:41:15Marc:That's how I feel sometimes.

00:41:17Marc:So what broke you out here?

00:41:20Marc:I mean, because this is a four-year period of time in between writing two great plays, then you do a Seinfeld, a profiler, a home improvement, you experience a horrendous loss.

00:41:32Marc:And what made you go write a Pulitzer Prize-winning play?

00:41:37Guest:Yeah.

00:41:37Guest:A couple of different things.

00:41:38Guest:I got in another relationship that went south, which is not surprising.

00:41:43Marc:You didn't drink either, did you?

00:41:44Marc:I didn't drink.

00:41:45Marc:See, that's what... We forgot that part.

00:41:48Marc:That must have helped you get through.

00:41:49Guest:I didn't drink.

00:41:51Guest:So I got in a relationship that also went south.

00:41:52Guest:And at the same time, I was just finding that those gigs I was doing, they weren't exactly... Fulfilling.

00:41:59Guest:They weren't feeding the soul.

00:42:01Guest:Imagine.

00:42:02Guest:Yeah.

00:42:02Guest:I had some buddy.

00:42:03Guest:There was a show they made out here.

00:42:04Guest:You might recall it called VIP with Pamela Anderson.

00:42:09Marc:Huh?

00:42:10Marc:I kind of recall.

00:42:10Guest:I don't know what it was.

00:42:11Guest:Follow up to Baywatch.

00:42:13Guest:Yeah.

00:42:14Guest:I don't know.

00:42:14Guest:Pamela Anderson was a spy or assassin or some shit.

00:42:18Guest:And this thing was very popular, not in this country.

00:42:23Guest:It's popular elsewhere.

00:42:24Guest:Probably everywhere elsewhere.

00:42:26Guest:So the residuals were great.

00:42:28Guest:I had buddies who if they booked a VIP, it was like that thing paid off like a slot machine.

00:42:33Guest:And you were on it?

00:42:34Guest:I was not.

00:42:35Guest:I had a couple of buddies who booked it, and I got jealous of them.

00:42:39Guest:And that was the moment where I went, oh, fuck.

00:42:44Yeah.

00:42:44Guest:vip yeah it was never supposed to be about this right so when they when you heard they got it you're like fuck man yeah how'd you get that and you're like what's happened yeah yeah

00:43:00Guest:I have to go ride a Pulitzer Prize winning play.

00:43:02Guest:So I got in my car and I drove back to Chicago.

00:43:05Guest:Yeah.

00:43:05Guest:The first play I did when I got back was a revival of Glenn Gary Glenn Ross.

00:43:09Guest:Oh, that's great.

00:43:09Guest:It was a great play.

00:43:11Guest:Which guy did you play?

00:43:12Guest:I played Williamson who runs The Office.

00:43:14Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:43:15Guest:Spacey plays him in the movie.

00:43:16Guest:Yeah, right, right.

00:43:17Guest:Which I've never seen.

00:43:18Guest:Pasquese, you know Pasquese, you guys.

00:43:20Guest:He played Ricky Roma.

00:43:21Guest:It was a great production.

00:43:22Guest:Oh, wow.

00:43:22Guest:That's great.

00:43:23Guest:Yeah.

00:43:24Guest:And that was kind of my reentry into Chicago 2001.

00:43:28Marc:Were they all happy you were back?

00:43:29Marc:Yeah.

00:43:30Marc:Yeah.

00:43:30Marc:Like that's the great thing about cities like Austin and Chicago.

00:43:34Marc:When people come back battered from LA or Nashville, they're like, come on, have a seat.

00:43:40Guest:Welcome to the club.

00:43:41Guest:That's exactly right.

00:43:42Guest:Welcome home.

00:43:42Guest:And in fact, a lot of my friends were like, why'd you come back?

00:43:45Guest:Seemed like you were doing pretty good out there.

00:43:47Guest:Like, no, no, no.

00:43:49Guest:VIP.

00:43:50Guest:I could tell you the story, the VIP story.

00:43:54Guest:So Steppenwolf asked me to join the company.

00:43:57Guest:Oh.

00:43:59Guest:A lot of their people had left, right?

00:44:00Guest:A lot of that original group, they had all left for Los Angeles and New York.

00:44:04Marc:Did they set it up like that?

00:44:05Marc:Is that how they offered you the job?

00:44:06Marc:Hey, we're at it, guys.

00:44:08Guest:Kind of.

00:44:10Guest:Because it came with a condition when they added me.

00:44:14Guest:They said, we want you to stay in town.

00:44:17Marc:Uh-huh.

00:44:17Guest:And I said, OK, I'm not looking to leave.

00:44:19Guest:Oh, that's great.

00:44:20Guest:So they said, stay here in Chicago and we'll put you in the company.

00:44:23Guest:I said, great.

00:44:23Marc:What does it mean to be in the company?

00:44:25Marc:Does that mean that they will give you work consistently?

00:44:28Marc:Yeah.

00:44:28Marc:Basically, like, you know, we're going to find place for you to do and keep you eating.

00:44:32Marc:And, you know, commit to staying here.

00:44:34Guest:You'll you'll be as involved as you want to be.

00:44:38Marc:And who was running it then?

00:44:39Guest:Martha Levy.

00:44:40Marc:Uh-huh.

00:44:41Guest:The late Martha Levy passed away last year.

00:44:44Marc:Oh.

00:44:45Marc:Was this after they moved to the bigger space, obviously?

00:44:47Marc:Yeah.

00:44:48Marc:Now, did you ever start a theater troupe?

00:44:51Marc:Did you ever start a group?

00:44:53Marc:Yeah, I started a couple of groups.

00:44:54Marc:What were they?

00:44:55Guest:They were small, short-lived.

00:44:58Guest:A little company called Point Theater Company in Chicago, and also a little improv group.

00:45:04Guest:I didn't start it.

00:45:05Guest:I was part of an improv group there called Bang Bang,

00:45:07Guest:With Michael Shannon and Paul Dillon and a lot of other people.

00:45:15Guest:Yeah.

00:45:16Marc:Chicago people.

00:45:16Marc:I think that, wasn't Amy Pates in that?

00:45:22Marc:Amy... Amy Pates.

00:45:23Marc:Pates, yeah.

00:45:23Marc:Yeah.

00:45:24Marc:Yeah, she was on an episode of my show.

00:45:26Marc:She did a lot of work out here.

00:45:27Marc:She did.

00:45:28Guest:She's very good.

00:45:28Marc:Yeah, she did an episode of Marin.

00:45:30Marc:However, she's great.

00:45:31Marc:Yeah, she is.

00:45:32Marc:All right, so those didn't stick, obviously.

00:45:34Marc:You did, but it was an improv.

00:45:35Marc:So what kind of improv?

00:45:36Marc:Like comedy improv?

00:45:37Guest:We were, well, I suppose, yeah, though we were all people from the theater.

00:45:41Guest:We were trying to bring some of our theater stuff into the world of improvisation.

00:45:47Marc:But not like Second City.

00:45:48Marc:Oh, really?

00:45:49Marc:Yeah.

00:45:49Marc:So like improvs would be derailed with crying and violence?

00:45:54Marc:Yes.

00:45:55Marc:Yes.

00:45:56Guest:Yes, that's a pretty good description.

00:45:58Guest:That's how we're going to do comedy.

00:46:00Guest:I can say that certainly some of the worst and some of the best things I've ever seen in a theater took place while doing.

00:46:08Marc:But improv is pretty freeing, though.

00:46:09Marc:It's got to be helpful.

00:46:10Marc:I mean, you're learning how to act during through all this, too.

00:46:12Marc:You're winging it.

00:46:13Marc:Yeah.

00:46:14Marc:You weren't ever given any real guidance, were you?

00:46:16Guest:Right.

00:46:17Guest:And then when I went back in 2001, Dave and TJ started up.

00:46:21Guest:you know david pasquese and tj jagadowski they started their two-man improv show uh-huh some of the best improv i've ever seen the best improv i've ever seen in my life and occasionally they would ask me to come and sit in with them and it was great for an improv jam yeah for one of they just get bored right they'd be like we're bored can you come and you like improv-ing

00:46:41Guest:I love it with those guys because they're so fucking good.

00:46:43Guest:It's like you can't fuck it up.

00:46:45Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:46:45Guest:I could only fuck it up so bad.

00:46:47Marc:Right.

00:46:48Marc:But it amazes me sort of like, because when I talked to Lori about Steppenwolf, none of them had any, there was no guru on, you know, like all those improvisers in Chicago had Del Close around.

00:47:01Marc:Right.

00:47:02Marc:But like with Steppenwolf and it seems with you that, you know, you sort of found your way into the acting gig.

00:47:07Guest:Right.

00:47:07Marc:It wasn't like there was no guru, there was no Buddha, there was no this is how you do it.

00:47:11Marc:Right.

00:47:12Marc:That's kind of fascinating.

00:47:13Guest:That's right.

00:47:14Marc:Does it fascinate you or do you think you cheated?

00:47:17Marc:cheated no i mean no in the sense that like you know there's a real racket in in training you know what i mean that right that that usually whether it's a teacher or somebody that you know gave you some tips oh i think training probably would have given me so many shortcuts that i had to take the long way around to figure out you know i don't knock training just because i didn't have it right

00:47:40Guest:Yeah.

00:47:40Guest:But no, there was no guru necessarily.

00:47:43Guest:I mean, what there was, there were a lot of great actors around me.

00:47:47Guest:Right.

00:47:47Guest:We were all challenging each other.

00:47:49Guest:Right.

00:47:49Guest:Everybody was challenging each other to up your game.

00:47:52Guest:Yes.

00:47:53Guest:That was true of Chicago then.

00:47:55Guest:It's true of Chicago now.

00:47:56Marc:It's the second time I've heard it.

00:47:58Marc:You know, it's like that's what it was.

00:48:00Marc:Yeah.

00:48:00Marc:It's like, what do you got?

00:48:02Guest:Yeah.

00:48:02Marc:Let's go.

00:48:03Marc:That's right.

00:48:04Marc:And so now you're a member of Steppenwolf.

00:48:06Guest:I knew Del, by the way.

00:48:07Guest:I did.

00:48:07Guest:He stepped into Picasso at La Panagia for a while.

00:48:10Guest:I got a chance to do the show with Del for a while.

00:48:12Guest:Pick his brain about some of the old stories and stuff.

00:48:16Guest:No, he was just a lot of fun.

00:48:17Marc:Yeah.

00:48:18Marc:I have no sense of him.

00:48:20Marc:I had to learn about that whole scene.

00:48:22Marc:I come from the stand-up history.

00:48:25Marc:So through this show and through... Because there's been a big shift in...

00:48:28Marc:in in comedy and show business you know out of stand-up centric shows to to sort of like you know sketch performers in chicago kind of you know overtook new york in terms of its importance in modern comedy history interesting well it was always sort of there you know with snl and the lampoon people but whatever but i didn't know much about it and this del close he was a real buddha that guy yeah he really was so you're in steppenwolf now so you're doing you're working you're in chicago

00:48:54Guest:And so now- Not drinking.

00:48:56Guest:As a playwright, I'd had two shows.

00:48:58Guest:Yeah.

00:48:58Guest:And I wrote a third show, Man from Nebraska, it was called.

00:49:01Guest:And so suddenly I had a little bigger- What was that one about?

00:49:06Marc:I don't know that play.

00:49:07Guest:Man from Nebraska is a play about a middle-aged guy from Nebraska who wakes up.

00:49:12Guest:He's an insurance salesman, kind of a boring guy who wakes up in the middle of the night and realizes he doesn't believe in God and starts a kind of-

00:49:18Guest:leaves home and looks for himself a little bit.

00:49:22Guest:That's what it was about.

00:49:24Guest:And it was 2003 and it was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize.

00:49:27Marc:Wow.

00:49:28Marc:They tell you that, huh?

00:49:29Guest:Yeah.

00:49:29Guest:You know what?

00:49:30Guest:They don't tell you before you lose it.

00:49:32Guest:Right.

00:49:33Guest:They call you and they say, congratulations, you lost.

00:49:35Guest:Yeah.

00:49:36Guest:it was close man it was close i didn't even know who won that year uh i know this uh i am my own wife uh-huh yeah who wrote that doug wright uh-huh very gifted playwright from dallas texas wow yeah so you're like i should have stayed in dallas

00:49:58Guest:I knew I shouldn't have left Dallas.

00:50:01Guest:And then, so I was doing two or three shows a year in Chicago.

00:50:04Guest:Acting.

00:50:05Guest:I mean, you know, Mark, when I left Los Angeles and went back to Chicago, I really took a vow of poverty, right?

00:50:13Guest:I knew what I had left in Chicago.

00:50:15Guest:You can't make any money in Chicago.

00:50:17Guest:And so I knew I was going back to act in the theater.

00:50:19Guest:I knew I was giving up on, you know, that big VIP money.

00:50:24Guest:And that stature.

00:50:26Guest:But it was just like,

00:50:28Guest:I was so much happier.

00:50:29Guest:I had been so much happier in Chicago doing plays than I was out in Los Angeles.

00:50:33Marc:Yes, this is a soul-crushing dump.

00:50:36Marc:Just a fucking soul-crushing spiritual garbage hole.

00:50:43Guest:Well, that's one way to say it.

00:50:49Marc:If you don't have to stay here, Jesus, get out.

00:50:53Marc:Just filled with people rationalizing.

00:50:55Guest:That family where all the kids are chained up, is that near here?

00:50:59Guest:It's right across the street.

00:51:00Marc:Didn't you see that house?

00:51:01Marc:I knew those kids.

00:51:03Marc:I knew there was something wrong.

00:51:04Marc:It was weird.

00:51:05Marc:You know what I mean?

00:51:05Marc:Did you read that the pets were really well fed?

00:51:08Guest:All the dogs were really well fed.

00:51:10Marc:Yeah.

00:51:11Marc:I think it's time for a new play.

00:51:14Marc:That's too upsetting.

00:51:16Marc:That's too upsetting?

00:51:18Marc:Have you seen Killer Joe?

00:51:20Yeah.

00:51:20Guest:And then I wrote August Osage County, which changed my life.

00:51:26Marc:Now, when you're doing that, writing that great play, because to me, I felt the presence of O'Neill, Tennessee Williams, Sam Shepard a little bit in the sense of what you were embarking on, classic family tragedy, really, right?

00:51:42Marc:Yeah.

00:51:43Marc:Now, who were your models?

00:51:45Marc:It must have taken a certain amount of time and structure and decision making and running bits and pieces.

00:51:51Marc:What's the process of writing a Pulitzer Prize winning play like that?

00:51:56Guest:It's long, slow process.

00:51:58Marc:Did I name any of your heroes?

00:52:00Guest:You named them all.

00:52:01Guest:I mean, they are all my heroes.

00:52:07Guest:You know, it's based on a true story.

00:52:09Guest:My grandfather committed suicide by drowning when I was 10 years old.

00:52:14Guest:My grandmother descended into years of downer addiction, put my mother especially, but my whole family through hell.

00:52:21Guest:So it's based very much on that, you know, something that had stuck with me for 30 years, right?

00:52:27Guest:I mean, your grandfather drowns himself.

00:52:29Guest:Did you know him?

00:52:29Guest:Yeah, I knew him.

00:52:33Guest:You know, when I first started writing it, I called my dad to ask him some details.

00:52:37Guest:I just had forgotten a lot of the stuff.

00:52:39Guest:I know I was 10 years old.

00:52:40Guest:Right.

00:52:41Guest:And he was very helpful with all that.

00:52:43Guest:And then he said, why are you writing about this?

00:52:45Guest:Yeah.

00:52:45Guest:and i said it seems like the stuff of drama and uh the events from that time have haunted me for 30 years and he said they have never occurred to her yeah but it's wild right when your grandfather ends his own life and you know that at 10 yeah that's gotta you know that's a big hole

00:53:09Guest:Well, one of the things that happens in August of Sixth County, right, is parents take their eye off the ball.

00:53:14Marc:Yeah, right.

00:53:15Guest:You know, my folks were, they were great parents.

00:53:17Guest:I loved my folks.

00:53:18Guest:We were very close.

00:53:18Guest:But that was a time when, you know, circumstances, being what they are, they probably took their eye off the ball.

00:53:26Guest:Parenting?

00:53:27Guest:Yeah.

00:53:28Yeah.

00:53:28Guest:I would say they took their eye off the ball.

00:53:30Guest:You got to walk a kid through that, why grandpa killed himself.

00:53:34Guest:Yeah.

00:53:35Guest:I mean, just the mental images of my grandfather underwater.

00:53:39Guest:It's such a lonely way to die.

00:53:43Guest:Just floating there?

00:53:45Guest:Yeah.

00:53:45Guest:In the middle of the night.

00:53:46Guest:Takes a boat out in the middle of the night and jumps into the middle of the fucking lake in the middle of the night.

00:53:51Guest:But with no weights on him or nothing?

00:53:54Guest:Yeah.

00:53:54Guest:Just chooses not to swim.

00:53:56Guest:I don't know.

00:53:57Guest:Wow.

00:53:57Guest:Yeah.

00:53:58Marc:That's a commitment.

00:53:59Marc:Yeah.

00:54:00Marc:And now, is the emotional elements and relationship dynamics, are they...

00:54:06Marc:Sort of true to life from that play?

00:54:08Guest:You know, some of it's created, some of it's borrowed, some of it's from real life.

00:54:14Guest:And yeah, the process of putting all that together is long, slow, painstaking, kind of boring, actually.

00:54:22Guest:I mean, boring to describe.

00:54:24Marc:But did you have a sense of like you obviously had a sense of structure from doing plays?

00:54:29Marc:Sure.

00:54:29Marc:You know, like, you know, act breaks and, you know, this and you knew you were writing a big three act thing.

00:54:36Marc:Yeah.

00:54:36Marc:Like, you know, with a lot of heaviness.

00:54:39Guest:Well, I had the story.

00:54:40Guest:Yeah.

00:54:41Guest:And then the question becomes, what's the right container for that story?

00:54:45Guest:Yeah.

00:54:46Guest:It's like, oh, the big American family drama is the right container for that story.

00:54:51Marc:Going back to O'Neill and Tennessee Williams.

00:54:56Guest:Yeah.

00:54:56Marc:Yeah.

00:54:58Marc:Buried Child kind of.

00:54:59Marc:All that stuff.

00:55:00Marc:Yeah.

00:55:00Marc:The dad stuff.

00:55:01Guest:All that stuff.

00:55:01Guest:And, you know, there are little reflections of those plays throughout August, Osage County and other stuff, too.

00:55:07Guest:Right.

00:55:07Guest:That's all intentional.

00:55:09Guest:Right.

00:55:09Guest:I hope it is.

00:55:10Guest:Somebody told me once I had stolen something from The Little Foxes by Lillian Hellman.

00:55:16Guest:I had never even read The Little Foxes.

00:55:17Marc:It's funny how people are just like, you know, the talentless scavenge for reasons to attack people with talent.

00:55:28Marc:It's what they do.

00:55:28Marc:Yeah.

00:55:29Marc:I heard someone use that word.

00:55:32Marc:You think you're so smart?

00:55:34Yeah.

00:55:34Marc:it's like what do you do don't worry about me i i i did a thing once so well that's like because it was a it was a mind-blowing thing i didn't i didn't really feel like it was um you know hacking off anybody else i thought it was its own thing and that it was this

00:55:56Marc:horrible family drama but i i could feel that arc the way that you know that the way it ends with what is it just just two characters yeah after you just subtract people yeah one way or the other people are subtracted right that there's that weird emotional desolation you know that it ends with a indigenous person right yeah yeah yeah that's the that's where it ends look look what you did you came and went

00:56:25Marc:Yeah.

00:56:26Marc:Well, I mean, with Shepard in the movie, you wrote the script for the movie?

00:56:30Marc:I did.

00:56:31Marc:Did you have anything to do with casting?

00:56:34Marc:No.

00:56:35Guest:I mean, you know... Were you on set?

00:56:37Guest:I was there for the table read.

00:56:39Guest:I was there the first day.

00:56:41Marc:Did you talk to Sam?

00:56:42Marc:Had you talked to Sam before?

00:56:43Guest:I had never talked to Sam before.

00:56:44Guest:It was the only day I ever spent with Sam.

00:56:47Guest:And I have to say that at the table read...

00:56:50Guest:He was the only one I was nervous about.

00:56:53Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:56:53Marc:Yeah.

00:56:54Marc:Because your dad had played it.

00:56:55Guest:Yeah.

00:56:56Guest:And I wasn't just nervous to be around him.

00:56:58Guest:I mean, I wasn't starstruck by Meryl or Mr. Clooney.

00:57:02Marc:Well, you've been through some shit by now.

00:57:04Marc:Yeah.

00:57:05Guest:But Sam could have hurt me.

00:57:09Guest:Right?

00:57:09Guest:If Sam had said the wrong thing at the wrong moment, he would have hurt me.

00:57:12Guest:And he didn't do that.

00:57:15Guest:In fact, in the moment that he might have done that, he actually did the right thing and said some really lovely, gracious things about my piece in front of everybody.

00:57:23Guest:I was like, I'll never forget that.

00:57:25Guest:I'll never forget him for that.

00:57:27Marc:He could have hurt you.

00:57:29Marc:That's right.

00:57:30Guest:By not saying anything.

00:57:32Guest:Sure.

00:57:32Guest:That would have hurt in a way.

00:57:34Marc:There was a lot of projection could have happened.

00:57:36Marc:You were just a vulnerable, no matter what you could have done to defend yourself,

00:57:41Marc:There was nothing you could have done.

00:57:43Marc:You just, yeah, and it worked out.

00:57:45Marc:Right.

00:57:46Marc:Oh, thank God.

00:57:47Marc:Yeah.

00:57:47Marc:I had a hard time going through that story just now.

00:57:52Marc:I'm all choked up that it worked out.

00:57:56Marc:Holy shit.

00:57:57Marc:So he liked the piece.

00:57:58Marc:He did like the piece.

00:57:59Marc:Yeah, he liked it a lot.

00:58:00Guest:He got kind of sparse later in terms of his writing.

00:58:04Guest:Yeah, I know.

00:58:04Guest:And when he died, you look at the list and it's like, it's over 50 plays.

00:58:08Guest:So many.

00:58:08Guest:I've written nine.

00:58:10Guest:What's holding you up?

00:58:11Guest:It's hard.

00:58:13Guest:It's fucking hard.

00:58:14Guest:And acting is easier.

00:58:17Guest:Well, sometimes, oftentimes.

00:58:20Guest:unless you're doing something really hard yes acting's easy but i thought the film was good i thought they did a good job with it who directed that john wells did you like it it was complicated it was complicated but it wasn't a disaster no it wasn't a disaster and i'm glad it's out there i i'm glad it's out there but i had a i had a hard time with the producers i had a hard time with harvey uh oh you worked with him

00:58:44Guest:Well, I wouldn't call it that.

00:58:45Guest:Yeah.

00:58:46Guest:Yeah.

00:58:47Guest:He was on the project.

00:58:49Marc:Yeah.

00:58:49Marc:I can't imagine what it would be like to have a play become a movie.

00:58:55Marc:It shouldn't happen.

00:58:56Marc:It really shouldn't happen.

00:58:57Marc:Well, then why'd you let Friedkin do two of them?

00:58:59Guest:Well, you know, I'll tell you why.

00:59:02Guest:Because I grew up in a small town in Oklahoma and I didn't have access to Streetcar Named Desire and Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf or Shakespeare.

00:59:12Guest:Right.

00:59:12Guest:My access to that shit was through the movies.

00:59:15Guest:Yeah.

00:59:15Guest:I wouldn't have been able to see that stuff.

00:59:17Guest:Yeah.

00:59:18Guest:And so, you know, there's some kid in southeastern Oklahoma right now who's, you know, home watching Killer Joe.

00:59:23Guest:Yeah.

00:59:24Guest:And it speaks to him.

00:59:25Guest:Right.

00:59:26Guest:That's true.

00:59:27Guest:And Bug and August Osage County.

00:59:30Guest:They can't afford to go to New York and pay $100 for a theater ticket to see it on Broadway.

00:59:34Marc:Or wait for it even to come locally.

00:59:37Marc:That's right.

00:59:37Guest:And yeah, Killer Joe and Bugger are not playing locally in southeastern Oklahoma.

00:59:42Marc:And no one's doing them in high school.

00:59:44Marc:So that's why.

00:59:45Guest:I've always felt like it's not the same experience.

00:59:53Guest:When I say it's complicated, that for me is really the... That's why it's complicated because I don't think films...

01:00:01Guest:It should be made out of plays.

01:00:03Marc:Or they can't do what theater does.

01:00:05Marc:No.

01:00:06Marc:But I thought that Friedkin knew that.

01:00:09Marc:I think he respected it, you know, and I think he tried to do something.

01:00:13Marc:They're William Friedkin movies.

01:00:15Marc:Yeah.

01:00:16Guest:You know, which is great.

01:00:17Guest:I'm thrilled that there are a couple of William Friedkin movies based on my plays.

01:00:21Guest:I'm thrilled about that.

01:00:22Guest:They're not the play.

01:00:23Guest:They're all these movies.

01:00:25Marc:Yeah.

01:00:26Marc:And Altman tried to do that.

01:00:27Marc:He tried to do it in a way that would honor the theater and it never quite works.

01:00:32Guest:It doesn't work.

01:00:33Marc:Yeah.

01:00:33Guest:The experience is different.

01:00:34Guest:In a theater, you have to lean forward and you see it.

01:00:38Guest:You have to pay attention.

01:00:39Guest:You have to tune your ear.

01:00:40Guest:Yeah.

01:00:41Marc:Shit might happen.

01:00:42Guest:I've done studies recently that show that audiences' hearts are actually syncing up during live plays.

01:00:51Marc:Really?

01:00:51Yeah.

01:00:51Guest:Is that true?

01:00:54Guest:Yes, that's true.

01:00:54Guest:That's an actual thing.

01:00:57Guest:There's something about the group experience watching a play that's very different than watching them.

01:01:02Guest:There's a reason you can watch a movie in your basement or your, you know, there's a reason you can eat popcorn and watch a movie.

01:01:09Guest:You can't eat popcorn and watch a play.

01:01:11Guest:No, because they're going to be mad at you.

01:01:13Guest:Well, it also just requires a certain investment on the point of the audience.

01:01:18Marc:Yeah, I'm fascinated.

01:01:18Marc:I don't go to enough, but when I do, I'm always like immediately emotionally all jangled.

01:01:24Marc:Yeah.

01:01:24Marc:Because like the whole space of it, they can see people spitting and feel them breathing and hear the feet dragging on the boards.

01:01:31Guest:Isn't it fantastic?

01:01:32Guest:Yeah.

01:01:32Guest:It's fantastic.

01:01:33Marc:It's great.

01:01:34Marc:And it's like, it shouldn't be, it should be required.

01:01:38Marc:Not like, you know, is it a good production?

01:01:43Yeah.

01:01:43Marc:of that yeah yes who's in it oh i haven't seen him in 20 years from tv right but so what so you're working on a play what are you working on writing one right now yeah i've had three plays come out in the last two years what are you yelling at me for i i didn't know that yelling

01:02:09Guest:I got a microphone.

01:02:11Guest:It's my mistake.

01:02:12Marc:It's my mistake.

01:02:13Marc:You've had three plays come out in the last three years, new ones.

01:02:16Guest:Yeah.

01:02:17Marc:And I missed them.

01:02:18Guest:Well, they haven't been in New York.

01:02:19Guest:They've only been in Chicago, where I still live and where I'm still a member of Steppenwolf Theater.

01:02:24Marc:So are they done?

01:02:25Marc:Are you workshopping?

01:02:27Marc:They're done.

01:02:27Guest:They've had full productions.

01:02:30Guest:The first of those three is called Mary, Paige, Marlowe, and it is going to be at Second Stage Theater in New York this summer.

01:02:37Marc:Oh, good.

01:02:38Guest:The second of those plays is called Linda Vista, and I think it's going to be here in Los Angeles in about a year.

01:02:43Marc:Yeah.

01:02:45Guest:The third of those plays is called The Minutes, and we're trying to get it to Broadway.

01:02:48Guest:We're not there yet, but we're trying.

01:02:50Marc:So, like, that's amazing.

01:02:51Marc:So you're a playwright.

01:02:53Marc:You keep going.

01:02:55Marc:I've been a playwright for a long time, man.

01:02:57Marc:I know that, dude, but I see you in movies.

01:02:59Marc:You're funny.

01:03:00Marc:You're doing the thing.

01:03:01Marc:Well, here's why.

01:03:02Guest:comedy you're doing some serious you're mixing it up becoming an american character actor now we have to get back to the timeline so august osage county happens and then i wrote superior donuts which was also on i auditioned for that uh tv show yeah did you audition for the tv show yeah i didn't quite i turned it down oh you turned it down yeah

01:03:22Marc:They wanted me to read for Judd's part, and I'm like, I'm too young to be this guy.

01:03:26Marc:And it's like, it doesn't seem like a role for me.

01:03:29Marc:You know, like I want him to be the cranky Jewish bigot?

01:03:34Guest:I don't have anything to do with the TV show.

01:03:37Marc:I know, I know.

01:03:38Marc:I'm sure the play was better.

01:03:39Marc:The play's different.

01:03:42Marc:Okay.

01:03:43Marc:Diplomatic, very diplomatic.

01:03:45Marc:Okay, go ahead.

01:03:48Guest:And then I acted in a production of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf at Steppenwolf that went to Broadway.

01:03:54Guest:It probably doesn't go to Broadway without August Osage County, but because of August...

01:03:59Guest:I don't know.

01:04:01Guest:God, and you must have killed in that part.

01:04:04Guest:So I did that.

01:04:05Guest:It's a great part.

01:04:06Guest:It's a great part.

01:04:07Guest:And it was a terrific production play.

01:04:09Marc:And you won a Tony, right?

01:04:11Guest:I did.

01:04:11Guest:That's great.

01:04:12Guest:And then from... That's why I started doing all this film and TV.

01:04:16Guest:Alex Gonza, who created Homeland, saw me on Broadway.

01:04:19Guest:He asked me to do...

01:04:20Guest:homeland yeah that's it that was good though you probably had a little meat to it didn't it did a couple of seasons of homeland and that's kind of led to all this other shit i've been doing yeah but you like it i'm having a time of my life it's fantastic you're talking about a guy who couldn't get on vip

01:04:37Guest:That's fantastic.

01:04:40Guest:It all comes around.

01:04:42Guest:It's fantastic.

01:04:44Guest:But I quit acting on stage.

01:04:46Guest:That's why I've had time to write plays and be in movies and TV shows.

01:04:50Guest:Because I've acted on stage eight shows a week, three shows a year for 30 fucking years, you know?

01:04:57Guest:Yeah.

01:04:58Marc:so you you don't do it anymore it's conscious i haven't done it in about four years because of the time commitment or just because it's too exhausting or what it's too hard it's too yeah it's hard exhausting and yeah beats you up yeah it's so interesting to me that like because you have like even you're in a lot of stuff right now

01:05:17Marc:I just watched a season opener of Divorce.

01:05:20Marc:You were very funny in that show.

01:05:22Marc:Thank you.

01:05:22Marc:This season, that was funny.

01:05:24Marc:Funny is a funny character.

01:05:25Marc:I remember you in the Elvis movie.

01:05:28Marc:That was sort of an interesting movie, and you were kind of funny.

01:05:32Marc:Yeah.

01:05:34Marc:And then...

01:05:35Marc:Don't knock yourself out.

01:05:37Marc:No, no, no.

01:05:38Marc:No, because it's one of those movies where it's like, is this a comedy?

01:05:40Marc:What are we doing here?

01:05:41Guest:Mike called me and asked me to come down and do that thing.

01:05:44Marc:No, I like the movie.

01:05:44Marc:Yeah.

01:05:45Marc:But I wouldn't call it a comedic part.

01:05:48Marc:There's beats to it.

01:05:49Marc:Do you know what I mean?

01:05:50Marc:I thought you were great in it, but the movie's one of those in-between movies.

01:05:53Marc:Right?

01:05:54Marc:Kind of?

01:05:54Marc:I mean, it is a comedy in a way.

01:05:56Marc:Yeah.

01:05:56Marc:But...

01:05:57Marc:And then the post, that's not a comedic part.

01:06:00Marc:That was a great part.

01:06:01Marc:Serious.

01:06:02Marc:What I'm doing for my audience, Tracy, is establishing you as a character actor with a lot of range.

01:06:11Guest:I see.

01:06:11Guest:You're doing an excellent job.

01:06:13Guest:I'm not belittling you.

01:06:15Guest:It's clear this is not your first time in the garage.

01:06:19Marc:No.

01:06:20Marc:And The Lovers, I like that movie, too.

01:06:22Marc:Thanks.

01:06:23Marc:He's an interesting director, and that was an interesting movie.

01:06:26Marc:I loved it.

01:06:27Marc:I had a great time.

01:06:27Marc:Yeah, you had a good time, right?

01:06:28Marc:I had a great time.

01:06:31Guest:I've been having a great time doing all of this.

01:06:33Marc:And Christine, too.

01:06:34Marc:I saw that movie.

01:06:35Marc:I don't think anyone saw that movie.

01:06:36Guest:Nobody saw it.

01:06:37Guest:It's a great movie.

01:06:37Guest:Because it's devastating.

01:06:39Guest:It is devastating.

01:06:40Guest:It's really good.

01:06:41Marc:It was like I watched it on a plane, and I wanted it out.

01:06:45Marc:Yeah.

01:06:46Marc:I wanted it off the plane.

01:06:47Guest:Yeah, it's a tough film, but really good.

01:06:49Marc:And that was a serious role.

01:06:51Marc:That wasn't a fuck-around role.

01:06:52Guest:Yeah.

01:06:53Marc:She's a good actress.

01:06:54Guest:She's a great actress.

01:06:55Marc:Interesting movie, but there was no way that... Put yourself through that, that movie.

01:07:03Yeah.

01:07:03Guest:We used to put ourselves through that movie all the time.

01:07:07Guest:It was fun.

01:07:08Guest:We liked it.

01:07:09Guest:You remember the 70s?

01:07:10Marc:You were alive.

01:07:11Marc:Kind of.

01:07:12Marc:I was young.

01:07:12Marc:But yeah, that's true.

01:07:13Marc:That's true.

01:07:14Guest:Did your folks take you to those tough movies when you were a kid?

01:07:16Marc:Of course.

01:07:17Marc:My grandparents took me to Deliverance way too young.

01:07:20Guest:I don't know why.

01:07:21Guest:Nice.

01:07:21Guest:See, my folks took me to Serpico.

01:07:23Guest:I think I was six.

01:07:24Marc:oh man oh man the only movie they ever took me out of was taxi driver and it's because we were i was 10 and we were in a drive-in yeah and the folks started to get uncomfortable oh my god when jody foster showed up it's like we need to go yeah i remember there's a couple movies there like i just remembered another one that nobody saw that i saw too much of was a movie called prime cut

01:07:48Marc:It was like a Gene Hagman movie.

01:07:50Marc:Gene Hagman, Lee Marvin, Sissy Spacek.

01:07:52Marc:Yes.

01:07:53Guest:Fantastic.

01:07:54Marc:Yeah, yeah.

01:07:54Marc:And I just remember when I was a kid, when they brought the package of sausages over and said that was so-and-so.

01:08:04Guest:Yeah.

01:08:04Guest:And I was like, that stuck with me.

01:08:05Guest:And the naked women in the pens?

01:08:08Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:08:09Guest:Right?

01:08:09Guest:They were like in a stockade situation?

01:08:12Marc:Yeah, it was a crazy movie.

01:08:13Marc:I don't even know what- Tough film.

01:08:14Marc:I don't even remember what it was about.

01:08:16Marc:Well, it's about Lee Marvin.

01:08:17Guest:He's a gangster.

01:08:19Marc:But is it competing slaughterhouses or something weird?

01:08:23Marc:Like the meat business?

01:08:26Guest:It was about America, baby.

01:08:28Guest:Yeah, man.

01:08:29Marc:That's what it was about.

01:08:30Marc:It all comes back to that.

01:08:31Marc:This is where Killer Joe comes from.

01:08:33Marc:Prime cut.

01:08:35Marc:I didn't think anyone remembered that movie.

01:08:37Marc:Oh, sure.

01:08:38Marc:When was the last time you saw that movie?

01:08:39Guest:Not that long ago.

01:08:40Guest:Really?

01:08:41Guest:Yeah.

01:08:41Guest:Why?

01:08:42Guest:I think I showed it to my wife.

01:08:44Guest:I think she hadn't seen it.

01:08:45Guest:I was like, oh, you got to see this.

01:08:48Marc:Oh, my God.

01:08:49Guest:I own it.

01:08:49Guest:I own a copy of Prime Cup.

01:08:51Marc:You do?

01:08:51Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:08:52Marc:I got to watch it again.

01:08:53Marc:You own a copy on, what, Blu-ray?

01:08:55Marc:They didn't put that on Blu-ray.

01:08:57Marc:Yeah, or something.

01:08:58Marc:VHS?

01:08:59Marc:Something.

01:09:00Marc:It's on a disc, maybe?

01:09:02Marc:You digitized it?

01:09:02Marc:That's how much you like that movie?

01:09:04Marc:I had a Betamax tape.

01:09:05Marc:and i didn't want to lose it so but but i get and also in uh obviously ladybird which is i think probably why you're here on some level this is part of that junket i thought you said you've been trying to get me on here for years i have and now you say that i'm on here why are you here why are you in los angeles wait why yeah i'm here for the sag awards tomorrow for what

01:09:29Guest:Best ensemble for later.

01:09:31Guest:Oh, okay.

01:09:32Marc:Are you yelling at me again?

01:09:35Marc:What, do you want me to come to Chicago and sit at a sausage place and talk to you?

01:09:39Marc:Great city.

01:09:40Marc:I'd love it.

01:09:41Marc:I've been going there a lot.

01:09:44Marc:I didn't know Chicago until the last few years, and now I've gone there a lot.

01:09:47Marc:I've taped a- Because you made easy there.

01:09:50Marc:Yeah, a little before that, too, I taped a comedy special there at the Virgil.

01:09:54Marc:Is that it?

01:09:54Marc:The Vic?

01:09:55Marc:The Vic, yeah, the Vic.

01:09:57Marc:I've been going, but yeah, I taped easy.

01:09:59Marc:Easy, yeah.

01:10:00Marc:And I got to know it a little bit.

01:10:01Marc:You were great in that thing, too.

01:10:02Marc:Thank you very much.

01:10:03Marc:Appreciate it.

01:10:04Marc:I like doing that, the improv thing.

01:10:05Guest:That first season, I haven't seen the second season.

01:10:09Guest:That first season of Easy did such a nice job of capturing our city, I feel.

01:10:12Guest:He loves it, Swanberg.

01:10:13Guest:Do you know him?

01:10:14Guest:I don't know him.

01:10:15Guest:I know who he is.

01:10:16Guest:You should reach out to him.

01:10:17Guest:I know him personally.

01:10:17Marc:He's a good guy.

01:10:18Marc:You should do one of his movies.

01:10:20Marc:He just gets a guy and he'll follow you around with a camera.

01:10:23Marc:And you wouldn't even know you're making a movie.

01:10:25Marc:And then he'll call you a couple hours.

01:10:27Marc:I don't know that I want that to happen.

01:10:29Marc:It's time.

01:10:30Marc:It's time.

01:10:33Marc:But the range that you exhibit is sort of fascinating to me because in Lady Bird, you're sort of the good guy.

01:10:42Marc:Yeah.

01:10:43Marc:You know what I mean?

01:10:44Marc:And you and Lori, because I asked her about it, and it was the first time you worked together, and you've known each other forever.

01:10:50Guest:Yeah.

01:10:51Marc:So, you know, it must have been amazing.

01:10:54Marc:That was great fun.

01:10:55Marc:To work with her.

01:10:57Guest:I've been really lucky in that some really good stuff has come my way.

01:10:59Guest:Greta sent me the script out of the blue and asked me to do this thing.

01:11:03Guest:We did a movie together called Wiener Dog, a Todd Salon's movie.

01:11:07Marc:It was the one I didn't see.

01:11:09Guest:And we're in different vignettes, so we didn't work together on the film.

01:11:12Guest:I met her at the premiere at Sundance.

01:11:14Guest:Yeah.

01:11:15Guest:And at the party, which was a terrible party.

01:11:18Guest:Yeah.

01:11:20Guest:My wife and I chatted with Greta for 15 or 20 minutes, and that's when she realized I was an old softie.

01:11:25Guest:That's why she sent me the script.

01:11:27Guest:She's like, oh, you're an old, I thought you were a hard ass from TV.

01:11:31Guest:You're an old softie.

01:11:32Guest:So she called and asked me to do that thing.

01:11:34Guest:It was just, and that's, man, I would sign up for that gig every day.

01:11:39Guest:Are you kidding?

01:11:40Guest:To have Greta and Lori and Saoirse running the show and I'm just sitting in the next room reading the newspaper.

01:11:48Guest:I'm happy.

01:11:49Guest:That's the way it should be.

01:11:52Marc:now when you so i i love the movie and i and i liked all you you people that were in it thanks um though we're gonna lose that award tomorrow night why i think three billboards is gonna win it hmm yeah well it's interesting what what does an ensemble mean how how often do you all have to be engaging together i don't

01:12:16Marc:Yeah.

01:12:18Marc:Three Billboards is an interesting movie.

01:12:20Marc:It's a bit of an abstraction where your movie is not.

01:12:25Marc:Yeah.

01:12:25Marc:So I don't know.

01:12:26Marc:I wonder.

01:12:27Marc:Are you worried about it?

01:12:28Guest:Not really.

01:12:31Marc:No.

01:12:32Marc:What was I going to say?

01:12:32Marc:Now, as an actor, what do you find?

01:12:34Marc:Give me some pointers.

01:12:38Marc:why do you look shocked i mean like what how what is your craft based on do you just show up and you make choices based on the script yeah and that's it i put on the clothes and i pretend to be the guy and i don't know how to do it any other way occasionally you go like is am i doing the guy right yeah is this the guy yeah or occasionally they come up they go that's not quite the guy you tell me what it is yeah could you tell me and i be a little more aggravated

01:13:04Guest:I was doing an episode of Homeland and Carrie, my wife, was visiting the set.

01:13:08Guest:Yeah.

01:13:09Guest:And I said, I'm glad you're here because I want to experiment.

01:13:12Guest:Because I hadn't worked on camera that much in the little PC things over the years.

01:13:16Guest:And I said, I want to try and experiment.

01:13:17Guest:I said, do me a favor and watch me on the monitor.

01:13:19Guest:Yeah.

01:13:20Guest:Yeah.

01:13:20Guest:and so i did a take where i you know acted yeah and then the next take i intentionally didn't do any i was just like sucked all the feeling out of my body just like this person without salt in their body yeah and did the scene and uh when it was over i said which was better and she said oh the second one was better

01:13:42Guest:There's the lesson.

01:13:45Guest:Don't do anything.

01:13:46Marc:So what is it like being married to another actor?

01:13:50Marc:Fantastic.

01:13:50Marc:How long has that been?

01:13:52Marc:Four plus years.

01:13:54Marc:Oh.

01:13:55Marc:Wow.

01:13:55Marc:And you appreciate each other's work.

01:13:57Marc:Yeah.

01:13:58Marc:And have you worked together a lot?

01:14:02Guest:We did.

01:14:02Guest:It was Fred and Virginia Woolf together.

01:14:04Guest:She played your wife?

01:14:05Guest:No.

01:14:06Guest:She played the younger?

01:14:07Guest:Yes.

01:14:08Guest:And I did an adaptation of Three Sisters, Chekhov's Three Sisters.

01:14:12Guest:She did that.

01:14:13Guest:And she was in my play Mary Page Marlowe last year.

01:14:17Guest:And then we just did The Post.

01:14:18Guest:So we've worked together a few times.

01:14:20Marc:How has it been on the Spielberg set?

01:14:22Guest:scary i was scared yeah yeah intimidating yeah things move fast right there's meryl and there's tom and there's you know stephen behind the camera yeah you know i you know i make a jaws joke and i was like shit jesus i you know i was 10 when jaws came out you know that's life changer

01:14:43Guest:You know?

01:14:43Guest:Yeah.

01:14:44Guest:It's like, shit, I grew up watching these movies.

01:14:46Marc:That's right.

01:14:47Marc:We're about the same age.

01:14:48Marc:I think that Jaws, you know, had a fairly traumatic effect on me.

01:14:54Marc:Yeah.

01:14:55Marc:Fucked me up forever.

01:14:56Marc:Right.

01:14:57Marc:I can't swim at night.

01:14:58Marc:You know, sharks don't actually want to eat you.

01:15:01Guest:Yeah.

01:15:01Marc:It's taken me a long time to realize that.

01:15:03Marc:Especially not in pools.

01:15:05Marc:I mean, I wouldn't even go in a fucking pool anymore.

01:15:07Marc:It's not going to go in the water, dude.

01:15:09Marc:It's nighttime.

01:15:10Guest:You ride especially in pool.

01:15:16Marc:Well, shit, man.

01:15:16Marc:This is great talking to you.

01:15:18Marc:Same here.

01:15:19Marc:Are you going to parties tonight?

01:15:22Marc:Fuck no.

01:15:24Marc:Do you think the food's going to be better than the Critics' Choice?

01:15:26Marc:Because I saw your Critics' Choice and I was going to say something, but I realized I didn't know.

01:15:29Guest:The food is not going to be any worse than at the Critics' Choice.

01:15:33Guest:Inedible.

01:15:34Marc:But it was funny because I did see you and I'm like, that's Tracy Letts.

01:15:37Marc:I should go over there and do what?

01:15:40Marc:Like, what am I going to do?

01:15:41Guest:Well, you also, you couldn't get out of your seat once the thing started because you don't know when your category is coming up.

01:15:46Guest:You can't get over to somebody else.

01:15:48Marc:Yeah.

01:15:48Marc:My category wasn't even on the televised part.

01:15:50Marc:It was before.

01:15:51Guest:I had the Lady Bird table to the side of me, and I had the post table over there somewhere.

01:15:57Guest:So I sat at the Fargo table because my wife was up for Fargo, so that seemed to be the right diplomatic way to go with it.

01:16:05Guest:But we were doing double-digit losing, double-fisted losing.

01:16:08Guest:Everybody's losing.

01:16:09Guest:Yeah, everybody.

01:16:10Guest:If you weren't with Big Little Lies or Shape of Water, you were losing.

01:16:14Marc:Yeah, or the Marvelous Miss Maisel going down.

01:16:18Marc:But, all right, well, good luck tomorrow night.

01:16:19Marc:Thanks.

01:16:20Marc:Maybe I'll see you over there, and we'll have... We'll probably be at tables where we can't see each other.

01:16:24Marc:We'll say hello.

01:16:25Marc:Because here's the weird thing with me is, like, I think a lot of people, they just... They don't register.

01:16:30Marc:Like, if you don't really know this show or whatever, what we're doing here, I'm just a guy, you know, like, I went to some guy's garage, you know.

01:16:37Marc:Apparently, it's a popular thing.

01:16:40Marc:And, like, I think... Like, people don't know.

01:16:43Marc:But, like...

01:16:44Marc:because i saw the only person like gret has been on my show i've talked to all these people i've talked to all these people right you know of all different levels that's the high point right yeah obama yeah that's got to be the high point right definitely was an exciting day but was it the best conversation i've ever had no but it was an exciting day and it was pretty amazing that's pretty amazing yeah it was amazing did you reach out to him did he reach out to you

01:17:08Marc:you want you want me to text him kidding uh no it was like they reached out his staff reached out about a year before and it just sort of evolved the conversation evolved and then it happened you know and it was like it was big deal big deal it's good president there's never everything everything's never going to be like that again no i'm afraid not the pendulum swings

01:17:33Marc:Yeah, but I think it's going to break after this.

01:17:36Marc:I think it's going to swing.

01:17:38Marc:It's going to break.

01:17:39Marc:But what I was saying was, like, you know, so I see people at the thing, and I don't know how to, you know, because I saw Willem Dafoe just having me walking by me.

01:17:46Marc:And, yeah, I had just talked to him.

01:17:48Marc:You'd been in here.

01:17:49Marc:Yeah.

01:17:50Marc:And I looked at him, and he looked at me, like, with that moment of sort of like, who is it?

01:17:53Marc:And then it was like, that guy.

01:17:56Marc:And now I'm projecting, but, you know, it was awkward.

01:17:59Marc:So then I realized, like, I'm not saying hi to fucking anybody who's been in my garage.

01:18:02Marc:Yeah.

01:18:02Marc:Because I'm just that's sad.

01:18:04Marc:I would hope you would say hi to me if I saw you.

01:18:07Marc:This was a different experience.

01:18:11Guest:Do you know what?

01:18:11Guest:Because I think I hope we see each other tomorrow night so I could just give you like the worst snub you've ever gotten.

01:18:17Marc:Well, in my mind, maybe it's my maybe I'm projecting my mind.

01:18:21Marc:I think that people just see me as the guy that does the interviews in the garage, you know, and they're there.

01:18:27Marc:They're not paying attention.

01:18:29Guest:I don't pay very careful attention to the world, but I know who you are beyond the guy in the garage.

01:18:36Guest:I've seen you on your TV show.

01:18:38Guest:I know you're a stand-up.

01:18:40Guest:I know you did this.

01:18:43Guest:There's the whole you and Louis C.K.

01:18:46Guest:I know who the fuck you are.

01:18:49Marc:I wasn't indicting you, and now I feel better because really what I was just trying to do is make it okay for me to say hi to you tomorrow night.

01:18:55Guest:Absolutely.

01:18:56Guest:You should say hi.

01:18:57Guest:Please say hi.

01:18:58Guest:Thanks for talking.

01:19:00Guest:My pleasure.

01:19:06Marc:Okay, so that was Tracy Letts.

01:19:09Marc:And to complete the story, when I went to the SAG Awards, I went thinking that I could maybe talk to Tracy Letts, maybe have these interactions that I didn't think I could have because he made me feel like I should have them.

01:19:23Marc:And I didn't know if it was going to happen.

01:19:25Marc:And I wasn't going to go run up, find him.

01:19:28Marc:But I went to before the event started, I went to the restroom just to check my hair, actually, and wash my hands.

01:19:37Marc:I didn't have to pee.

01:19:39Marc:And I walked in the restroom.

01:19:40Marc:And who's washing his hands?

01:19:41Marc:Tracy Letts.

01:19:42Marc:And I see him.

01:19:43Marc:And then he sees me in the mirror standing by where I walked in.

01:19:48Marc:And it's pretty full of people.

01:19:49Marc:And I go, so this is where it happens.

01:19:51Marc:This is where it happens.

01:19:53Marc:Tracy lets, this is it.

01:19:57Marc:And he turns around and he's laughing.

01:19:59Marc:And I'm like, see, we're doing it.

01:20:02Marc:We're talking.

01:20:03Marc:We're having this event.

01:20:04Marc:And he hugged me.

01:20:05Marc:I can't quite remember if it was in the bathroom or not.

01:20:07Marc:I'd like to think it was.

01:20:09Marc:But I think it might have been when we walked out.

01:20:10Marc:So I got closure on that.

01:20:12Marc:And I feel a little more confident and comfortable in approaching people that I've talked to on this show, at award shows, as a relative equal.

01:20:21Marc:Thank you for that, Tracy Lettson.

01:20:23Marc:Thank you for coming on the show.

01:20:24Marc:You're not listening.

01:20:26Marc:You're not listening.

01:20:27Marc:And that whole table people, they sat pretty close to me, the Lady Bird people.

01:20:31Marc:And I had a deal with Lori Metcalf because Lori, who I love, left her favorite hoodie here, her Steppenwolf hoodie, and she needed it for a photo shoot.

01:20:39Marc:And that's where that started to happen.

01:20:42Marc:I had to keep going back because I didn't get the name in the phone.

01:20:44Marc:So not only did I talk to people, but I annoyed them.

01:20:48Marc:I mean, like I went and got Laurie Metcalf's phone number and they were sitting at the award show and this was on a break and I just wanted to make sure I could get her the hoodie in New York.

01:20:56Marc:I wanted to have her number.

01:20:59Marc:It was relatively complicated.

01:21:03Marc:But I had to go back two or three times because I kept fucking my phone up.

01:21:06Marc:But she got the hoodie, and she sent me a nice card and compensated me for the money I put out to FedEx it.

01:21:14Marc:It was a nice, funny card thanking me with two 20s in it, just like my grandma used to send me.

01:21:20Marc:All right, that's it.

01:21:21Marc:That's our show.

01:21:22Marc:No guitar.

01:21:23Marc:Boomer lives!

01:21:28Boomer lives!