Episode 883 - Macaulay Culkin / Cameron Esposito
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fucksters what's happening i am mark maron this is my podcast at wtf welcome to it full show today couple of guests two guests we've got cameron esposito stopping in for a shorty a short chat
Marc:And then Macaulay Culkin is here.
Marc:Macaulay Culkin.
Marc:I don't know how that happened, but, you know, Macaulay Culkin is Macaulay Culkin.
Marc:And, you know, when somebody says, you know, Macaulay Culkin wants to come on the show, I'm like, what's that kid been up to?
Marc:What's he doing?
Marc:Where's he been?
Marc:What does that life look like?
Marc:Let's see if he'll talk about it.
Marc:So I talked to Macaulay Culkin.
Marc:I like to say his name, apparently.
Marc:Cameron Diaz.
Marc:Cameron Diaz.
Marc:Cameron Esposito.
Marc:It's got some stuff going on.
Marc:I like her.
Marc:I like her comedy.
Marc:I like her.
Marc:She was on my show, Maren.
Marc:She's a friend of the show.
Marc:Nice to have her back.
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:Where are we at?
Marc:I apologize if you hear...
Marc:A slight machine noise in the back.
Marc:I'll try to talk over it.
Marc:I will try to do that for you.
Marc:You see, there's shit going down here.
Marc:There's stuff going on.
Marc:There's a guy out there.
Marc:He's blasting away at the exterior of my house, chipping away at the, what do you call it, at the stucco.
Marc:Going to redo some stuff out there, get that painted up.
Marc:inside the house the floors are done new moldings happening it's all painted nice and white and i do have that feeling like what am i doing why am i going what but i'm still out here in the garage and i did make the mistake of uh of cutting my internet
Marc:I cut my cables so we could pull the cables out through the wall so we could do the work on the wall thinking like I don't need this anymore.
Marc:Thinking that the cable had nothing to do with my internet and then realizing on the way over here today that I get the internet from the cable company and I cut it.
Marc:I literally cut the cord, people.
Marc:I can't Google.
Marc:I can't tweet.
Marc:I can't wiki.
Marc:I can't do anything.
Marc:I'm going old school.
Marc:Got to make notes.
Marc:I'm reading this off my phone.
Marc:I'm reading the ad copy off my phone.
Marc:I was surprised that I actually, I printed stuff off my phone without the Wi-Fi.
Marc:I learned new things right in time.
Marc:You can still function.
Marc:I'm still connected.
Marc:But so look, today is, what day is it?
Marc:It's Monday.
Marc:And the truth of the matter is, I don't know what happened yesterday.
Marc:Because I'm recording this before I go to SAG Awards.
Marc:There's a couple things I want to tell you.
Marc:I'm excited.
Marc:I'm very grateful to be nominated by my fellow actors and actresses.
Marc:And I don't know what my chances are.
Marc:I certainly don't anticipate winning.
Marc:I do want to tell everyone that I'm going to be wearing the exact same thing.
Marc:that I wore at the Critics' Choice Awards.
Marc:So if there's anyone out there thinking that I would not do that or that wasn't the smart thing, if that's what you're focusing on, like, why did Marin just not wear the vest with the suit?
Marc:Because I'll tell you why.
Marc:I spent a lot of money on that suit, and I'm going to wear every piece, and I'm going to wear the white shirt and the black tie.
Marc:I don't want any fucking guff.
Marc:That's what I'm wearing.
Marc:It's not like anyone's making notes.
Marc:It's not like I got to walk the red carpet and people are going to be like, why isn't Marc Maron wearing a different dress?
Marc:That's the only way I would not wear the suit, actually, is if I was wearing a dress and I'm just not that bold.
Marc:I'm not that bold, folks.
Marc:I don't know what to tell you.
Marc:Sorry.
Marc:Maybe next year I'll wear a dress.
Marc:So basically what I'm saying is that I don't know what went down yesterday because I'm recording this the day before yesterday.
Marc:So I'll walk you through it when I come back on Thursday and tell you what happened.
Marc:If everything works out, well, I'll still be here Thursday.
Marc:I'll still be here Thursday.
Marc:Maybe I'll have a story to tell.
Marc:We'll see.
Marc:I don't want to keep going here too long because I do have a full show.
Marc:And I don't know.
Marc:The noise is kind of bothering me in the background.
Marc:And also, maybe I'm going to have to re-hook up that Wi-Fi.
Marc:Now, can I just go to Radio Shack and get the thing for the, you know, I cut off the top of the coaxial cable, but I think I can just get the top of a coaxial cable at Radio Shack and then hook it back up through the window.
Marc:Yeah, maybe I'll get on that.
Marc:Maybe that's my job.
Marc:I find myself focusing on mundane kind of not repetitive things, but things that are cataloging and fixing small things over at the new house.
Marc:I went through all my seven inch records and I don't even play seven inch records.
Marc:I'm not sure where they all came from, but I decided it was time to go through them for an hour or so.
Marc:So I don't think about the darkness.
Marc:You know what I'm saying, folks?
Marc:The darkness.
Marc:A lot to be grateful for, right alongside with a lot to be terrified of.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Let's ease into Cameron Esposito now.
Marc:She's got a new stand-up record.
Marc:It's called Back to Back.
Marc:It's a double album featuring a set from Cameron and her wife, Rhea Butcher.
Marc:You can also check out her podcast, Query, with Cameron Esposito.
Marc:And hear her on episode 575 of WTF.
Marc:Get that on Howl or Stitcher Premium.
Marc:And she's also featured extensively in our book, Waiting for the Punch, Words to Live By from the WTF podcast.
Marc:And she's back here with me now in the garage.
Marc:Please welcome.
Marc:What am I doing?
Marc:I'm setting it up like a television show.
Marc:This is me and Cameron Esposito chatting here in the last days of the garage at the Cat Ranch.
Music
Marc:Did you buy a house?
Guest:Not yet.
Guest:We're looking right now.
Marc:Do you have kids yet?
Guest:No.
Marc:Are you gonna?
Guest:I hope so.
Guest:It's like a real race right now, you know?
Guest:I mean, you don't know.
Guest:This has nothing to do with your life.
Guest:But it's a real race, because I'm trying to figure out, like...
Marc:Age-wise?
Guest:Well, just how stable do you have to... You know how our job is really... Sure.
Marc:Don't know if you're going to have any money.
Guest:It just turns out abs and flows.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And I don't know how you're supposed to make decisions that require stability.
Marc:You know, it seems that a lot of people don't even consider it.
Marc:They just have the kid.
Guest:Well, so, okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Those people probably are straight people who can just magically accidentally make a kid.
Guest:Oh, that's right.
Marc:It takes a little more effort.
Guest:Not that all straight people can, but when you are in the position where you have to plan it, then I think...
Guest:You get stressed out about trying to figure out the perfect time.
Marc:Yeah, because there seems to be many levels of planning.
Marc:Where are we going to get the stuff?
Marc:Who's going to carry it?
Marc:Or is that even how I'm going to do it?
Marc:Are we going to get an already made one?
Guest:Yeah, because there's a lot of those.
Guest:But that's expensive too.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then also just like, who do you even ask?
Guest:You know, there's the initial like...
Guest:Imagine if today you had to go find a child.
Guest:It's like that episode we did.
Guest:Yeah, it's really intense.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I'm in that zone.
Guest:I'm in the zone of the episode of your television.
Marc:So you guys are talking about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, we've been talking about it for a couple of years.
Guest:I think when you're a woman in your 30s.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's not even an option to not think about it because other people bring it up all the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You have to think about it.
Marc:You got to make a decision.
Guest:You have to make a decision.
Guest:And I know I want to have kids, but, you know, there's also think about the number of women that do our job that like just didn't have kids.
Guest:It's because like your 30s is also.
Marc:That's when you're making and doing your thing.
Guest:It's the whole thing.
Guest:You're figuring it out.
Guest:You're going from like...
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, working the road to whatever you're going to be.
Guest:Whatever... Yeah.
Guest:Like that 30 to 40 range is like the moment.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's your moment.
Marc:And like I talked to Segura yesterday.
Marc:He and Christina have a two-year-old and they're both on the road and they alternate.
Marc:Like they plan, I guess, if one's out, the other one's home and that kind of deal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I feel like I...
Guest:So I toured, Rhea and I, we went on a bus tour this fall, which was a big thing for us.
Marc:How many dates?
Guest:We did 17 on the bus and we flew for four more.
Guest:So we did like 21 altogether.
Guest:You rented a bus?
Guest:Yeah, to do 17 dates.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, why'd you need a bus?
Guest:It was awesome.
Guest:We did it so fast.
Guest:Have you ever been in a bus?
Marc:Like a big bus, a tour bus?
Guest:Yeah, it was like a rockstar tour bus.
Marc:Well, how many people were on your tour, on the show?
Guest:It was Rhea and I and also our tour manager.
Yeah.
Marc:On the whole bus?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, you just... And we had a driver.
Marc:Did you record it?
Guest:Yeah, it's an album that was just number one on iTunes for a couple weeks.
Marc:Oh, this is your new album?
Guest:Yeah, that's called Back to Back.
Guest:It's from that tour.
Guest:So, you know, I felt like as a comic, I'm trying to figure out how to...
Guest:Like transition into more of a, I don't know, an appointment?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:As opposed to, like, I don't play clubs anymore.
Guest:I play theaters.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You play theaters.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You play bigger theaters than I do.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:Probably.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Depends.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And so I'm, you know, in that transitional moment, too, which also is just like a different...
Guest:thing because you just don't know what's going to happen next.
Guest:So even like if it was- Is this about money?
Marc:Is that what you're talking about?
Marc:I mean- It's money, but it's also like- What's the worst that could happen?
Marc:That people stop coming?
Guest:No, I'm trying to figure out like, is this the time that I need to knuckle down and make all the shit happen?
Guest:Like if I was just going out every weekend and playing a club in a static way, at least you can kind of plan around that.
Marc:But like- Right.
Guest:Right now-
Marc:right when you do a theater tour it's like you you know you got all these dates to knock out it's like nuts and then you got to build the next hour yeah you're feed the monster yeah i'm shooting for a whole i'm trying to get real famous and big mark i hear you trying to get real big and famous how's that going i think it's going okay so this oh so is this but it's just your is it both you on the record or just you
Guest:We did this thing where the two of us performed together up top and then she does a half hour and then I do a half hour.
Guest:So it's like 90 minutes, but split into three different sections.
Marc:And that's what's on the record.
Guest:That's what's on the record.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:And how did that go?
Guest:Did it work?
Guest:It was awesome.
Guest:Oh, great.
Guest:It really was.
Guest:I think we're doing something that, not I think, we're doing something that doesn't really exist, which is like when we're on stage performing together, talking about both sides of a relationship, you know, how much of our stuff is talking about a relationship, but we don't often get to hear like, the other person doesn't usually come out and be like...
Guest:And actually, go fuck yourself.
Marc:Right, their side of it.
Guest:So it's pretty cool.
Guest:No, that's great.
Guest:And I'm like into it.
Guest:I think it's fun because also it just keeps stand-up not stale.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And are you the straight man?
Marc:No.
Guest:Actually, no.
Guest:There really is a... I'm like the loon or whatever.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm like the dreamer and then Rhea's the straight man, really.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:It's fun as fuck.
Marc:What happened to the CISO show?
Marc:What happens to that thing?
Marc:I talked to people who were like, I had someone on the show who had a show, a special coming, Brent Weinbach.
Guest:Yep.
Marc:Weinbach, he was like, I don't know if it's coming out.
Marc:We were talking about before it was supposed to happen, and the whole thing, what did it all go under?
Marc:Is it still on?
Guest:No, it doesn't exist.
Guest:It went away.
Guest:There is no streaming platform currently that exists that's called CISO.
Marc:How many episodes of your show were on there?
Guest:We had a first season that now no longer exists anywhere, except I think the pilot might still be on YouTube, but I have to check because I think that came out too.
Guest:How many episodes?
Guest:Six, the first season.
Guest:Then we made an eight-episode second season that... Never got posted?
Guest:It just doesn't exist anywhere.
Guest:And we tried to... You know, we don't own the thing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:We made the thing.
Guest:It took two years of our lives.
Guest:We don't own the thing.
Guest:We can't put it anywhere.
Guest:And then the people that are now involved with trying to sell it or place it are not the executives that I would have known.
Guest:It's now back to kind of like the corporate...
Guest:It's like it has nothing to do with people that own CISO, which is NBC Universal.
Guest:So it's like whoever is the business development guy that works at NBC Universal that you and I would never meet because we're on the creative side.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:We would meet like the creative execs.
Guest:People all have different jobs now, but they own it.
Guest:They own it, and I don't know that it will ever go anywhere.
Guest:So essentially, it's kind of like I went to grad school and learned how to be a showrunner and learned how to make a show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the show doesn't exist.
Guest:Well, I mean, have you tried to buy it back?
Guest:Do you have a couple...
Guest:How many millions of dollars can you spend on here?
Guest:Is it that much?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I can't buy it back.
Guest:I don't have that.
Guest:I'm trying to buy a kid.
Marc:I know.
Marc:But did you have your agent have these conversations of trying to... Oh, yeah.
Guest:I mean, this is all... Wrestle it away.
Guest:There are many people involved in this.
Guest:Teams of people working for me and our production company, Comedy Bang Bang.
Guest:And there also isn't really like...
Guest:I don't even know that there's a fault here.
Guest:I mean, it's literally just like... It's just paperwork.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:That's the problem.
Marc:They don't want to do it.
Marc:They don't care if they don't do anything with it.
Guest:Because it's gone to the stage of paperwork.
Guest:So once something's in the stage of paperwork, it's just literally like, okay, so we can actually afford to just drop that amount of money in the trash.
Guest:That's what this made me realize is how much like mega conglomerate corporations, how much they actually have, that they can just be like, you know, it's kind of more worth it to us to never...
Marc:Right.
Marc:Put it anywhere.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And why bother selling it?
Marc:That's going to take more paperwork and manpower.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, unless someone's really going to step up with some big bread.
Guest:And people did.
Guest:I mean, we had a lot of interest.
Guest:It was a weird, this has been a very weird experience.
Marc:Well, what do you mean what happened?
Marc:You had people, you guys sought out people.
Guest:No, there was like a save the... What I did was I just posted our stats for the second season because we were really deliberate about our hiring.
Guest:So we had an all-female writer's room for two seasons and we had a 51% out queer cast.
Guest:So the actors that were playing the roles were actually queer folks.
Guest:I believe it's the biggest... At the time, it was like the biggest cast of out queer actors to ever exist in a single season of television.
Guest:I just posted some of that stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Um, and it kind of went viral and like Vanity Fair wrote about it and, you know, huge publications.
Guest:And then because of that, we got some calls, but it just didn't, it just wasn't the right thing.
Marc:You know, I take it personally.
Guest:Um,
Guest:I don't take it personally.
Guest:That is actually my takeaway, is how impersonal it can be.
Guest:Because for me, that show was really personal.
Guest:I worked on it with my wife, and it was based on our real relationship.
Guest:And the people that we worked with were so personal with us.
Guest:It was really my first experience...
Guest:Of like, oh, this is a, you know, this is to stop the stock market.
Guest:Like people invest in shows because they want that to pay off because they want, you know, whoever to advertise on the show.
Guest:Like this is.
Marc:Yeah, it's all about money.
Marc:It's not about our little dreams.
Guest:Our little dreams are floating on the back of something much bigger.
Right.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:They're just floating on the back.
Marc:Yeah, that's a nice way to put it.
Marc:Or just completely shit out by something much bigger.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:They don't care.
Guest:And I think that part of that was... It doesn't care.
Marc:I shouldn't say they.
Marc:It.
Guest:Yes, that's what I'm trying to say, is that I don't actually think there's anything sinister involved here.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I don't know if that... And that doesn't...
Guest:It's not like I sleep well going, oh, it wasn't sinister.
Guest:I go, oh, shit, it wasn't sinister.
Guest:Well, then what does that mean about our industry?
Guest:If it can't even be personal enough to be sinister, would it be better if it was?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Yeah, it's just stuck is the problem, the bigger problem.
Marc:Because it seems like there would easily be an outlet for it.
Marc:You just can't get it free.
Marc:And that sucks because it's your work.
Marc:But you sign away that right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you just think it's going to be OK.
Marc:You don't think it all the way through or whatever.
Marc:You don't have a choice.
Marc:So now something like this happens and you're like, it's like party views being held hostage, not for sinister reasons, for bottom line reasons.
Marc:And there's nothing you can do about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you know what you do is you go out on the road and you tour and you actually meet people that watch the first season.
Guest:I mean, that's what Rhea and I did.
Guest:When we found out about this, we were going to go, the fall tour that we were supposed to go on was actually like a promotional tour, which was part of the reason for the bus.
Guest:It was going to be wrapped.
Marc:Did they at least keep paying for the bus?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Were you able to... I can't comment on that.
Guest:No, we paid for the bus.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We paid for the bus because it was already... The dates were already tied to... You can travel faster in a bus than you can on a plane because you fly overnight.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:So like you get done with the show, you...
Marc:go to sleep, and then... Right, you were at the next place.
Guest:You were at the next place the next morning.
Guest:So we were kind of tied to it being on a bus, and so we just decided, like, all right, well, if that's the case, then, like... Keep the bus.
Guest:Let's just be... Let's just let that be rad, you know?
Guest:Like, let's just make a bunch of merch and toss it in the back of the bus and do this big thing.
Guest:Like, let's do it up.
Guest:And you have fun.
Guest:It was our first time being on tour since...
Guest:The awfulness of our president.
Guest:I don't know if you've been out lately.
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It was incredible.
Guest:People waited.
Guest:We would have these huge meet and greets.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And people would wait for like an hour and a half to talk to us.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I think part of it is just like...
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:How important that is right now.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:People just feeling like, oh my God, can I, can I just shake somebody's hand?
Guest:Is there anybody that will give me a hug?
Guest:Like, you know, and it was really amazing.
Marc:Gratitude that you're speaking that truth, you know, or that representing, you know, it means a lot now.
Guest:Yeah, it was a lot of listening, too.
Guest:A lot of people wanted to talk about their stories, which is cool.
Guest:I mean, it's cool.
Guest:It also feels like way too much responsibility.
Guest:I wasn't shutting anybody down, but it is wild when you get to the point where people are talking to you about their personal lives.
Guest:Especially on a line.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:Well, number one, especially in a line, but also number two, because you're just like trying so hard to like be there for that person, but you just performed.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And your brain is not working.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I see.
Marc:There's hundreds of pictures of me with strangers looking exhausted.
Yeah.
Marc:I can't.
Marc:I always think I'm pulling it off.
Marc:But when I look, if I see something, a picture of me, someone tweets, I'm like, oh, my God, I'm exhausted.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's it's important.
Marc:You're right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Community is important.
Marc:And people feeling like, you know, represented and strong and that, you know, people are because a lot of people are isolated.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They come out from wherever they are, whatever their family situation is, whatever little town they live in, and just to hear their truth spoken or something they relate to, it's a big deal.
Guest:Especially queer folks who I think have had to spend the last year...
Guest:Hearing, we've had to hear about our community from outsiders in a way that has really sucked over the last year.
Guest:Either people that are on the far left being like, don't worry about it.
Guest:I swear this won't be that bad for you.
Guest:Like me, I can sit out voting in this election because...
Guest:my rights aren't really on the line, but your rights aren't on the line either.
Guest:We had to hear that, and then we also had to hear people on the far right basically acting as if we only exist in large cities and are some phenomenon of Los Angeles and West Hollywood specifically.
Guest:What I've learned traveling the country for the last 15 years is that we are in literally every state and in every city and in rural areas, and people are just trying to get by.
Guest:And not have their apartments taken away because their girlfriend moves in with them or whatever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're just trying to literally pee.
Guest:Right.
Guest:In the bathroom.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That is at the truck stop or wherever the fuck they are.
Marc:Right.
Guest:It's scary.
Guest:It's just such a huge step backward in terms of the way my community has spoken about last year.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Either people talking about it like you already got marriage.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What else do you need?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Isn't that enough?
Marc:Aren't you guys good now?
Guest:And it's like, well, black trans women are being like murdered on the street.
Guest:So we would also like for that to not happen.
Guest:If you wouldn't mind including that with marriage.
Guest:stop killing yeah if you could just like stop killing us yeah that would be cool it's horrible um yeah so what are you doing you know uh in do you do you deal with this stuff on the podcast oh yeah well that this is part of the reason i started this new podcast that's called query yeah um
Guest:Actually, I mean, I'll blow like a little smoke at you.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:You know, I think what this show did was allow people into in-group conversations between comics.
Guest:You've heard that a million times.
Guest:It's so cool for people to just be able to like hear two comics talk to each other without explaining the words.
Guest:And like you go up and you look up...
Marc:Yeah, do a little homework if you have to.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Like you figure out where this club is or what this booker is or whatever it is.
Guest:That's like what caught fire about this was the idea that on a podcast, there is no explanation.
Guest:And I feel like that hasn't really existed for the queer community.
Guest:So often, like when we're interviewed, the questions are like, so when did you come out?
Guest:And then how did your parents take it?
Guest:And going from when did you come out to how did your parents take it, it immediately erases the queer person in that story.
Guest:Like, okay, when did you come out?
Guest:How was that for you?
Guest:How had you felt prior to that?
Guest:How were you treated as a kid?
Guest:What do you identify as?
Guest:Like, I think those conversations, we haven't even had the chance to be asked.
Guest:And it's because a lot of times, I mean, just by the numbers, straight people are doing the interviews.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so they're coming at it like, I identify with your parent.
Guest:I identify, I'm a straight person.
Guest:I identify with your straight parent.
Marc:Right.
Guest:As opposed to, I'm a queer person.
Guest:You know, just tell me about what your life is like on a daily basis.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Yeah, I guess I see that.
Marc:Yeah, it's difficult.
Marc:I was having a conversation about this, about empathy, that sometimes empathy is difficult for people who have no, whose experience is completely different.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Than the other person.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And I think empathy is also different from like in-group conversation.
Guest:Oh, absolutely.
Guest:Because I think that a lot of people have a lot of empathy.
Marc:But I think that's right.
Marc:I think there's a lot of straight people that talk to queer people that are not, they're not meaning to detach or erase.
Marc:Yeah, of course.
Marc:Their curiosity is limited to what their parameters of experience are.
Guest:A hundred percent.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:One hundred percent.
Guest:And I would say also, you know, like something that I heard again and again on this last tour, a lot of people that come to see Rhea or I will say this is the first time I've ever seen a stand up show because I specifically haven't gone because I look a little unusual and I'm afraid of that thing where a comic will pick on me.
Marc:Right.
Right.
Guest:um and you know you and i know first of all that like not all comics stand up on stage and like point out the weirdos in the audience but just the idea that like you're carrying that around with you right that you would remove your access to art and here on the comedy side of things we assume like oh these are the great names and they're universally accepted as speaking to all people yeah no fuck they're not there are people who don't go to those shows because they're scared to be in that audience yeah and like
Guest:we don't we don't shift our lens right it is i will say are you funny right now pretty funny are you i'm like having a hard time being funny i'm pretty funny but like i'm also i'm not being that specific
Marc:Like I'm reacting to things and then I'm kind of going away from them, you know, in my process and coming back.
Marc:I'm not saying like, what about this problem?
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:I'm trying to sort of subvert it into a bigger conversation or something that doesn't, isn't as like, you know, like we're...
Marc:If I'm going to say we're fucked, then I got to say what I do when I feel that way and where it takes me.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:I try to make it relatable as opposed to pontificate or be righteous about things.
Guest:Well, maybe that's the part that I'm having a hard time with, honestly.
Marc:I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
Marc:The righteousness part.
Marc:It's just it's tricky to make it funny.
Guest:It is tricky to make it funny.
Guest:I feel pretty betrayed.
Marc:By?
Guest:Like, you know, whatever it was, 80% of white voters or something.
Guest:I feel pretty betrayed by like my own skin, by like whiteness right now and how fucking stupid whiteness is.
Guest:How far we will apparently go to...
Guest:To save it?
Marc:Was it really at risk to begin with?
Guest:Well, Mark, some other people wanted to own like 3% of the 100% that white people have owned in this country.
Guest:And so, as you know, that was a terrible idea and white people had to fight for it.
Marc:It was too much.
Marc:Way too much.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Racism, scary shit.
Marc:And, you know, and yeah, there it's hard to deliberate, you know, where to come from.
Marc:But but ultimately, if you start with, you know, breakfast and you kind of move out from there.
Marc:Just your own life.
Marc:These struggles.
Marc:It's very easy, I think, sometimes to isolate things you want to talk about.
Marc:But that's different than, how do I talk about this?
Marc:And I'm not sure that that part, asking that question publicly, is not a bad place to start.
Marc:I'm struggling with how I talk about this because I feel this way.
Marc:And there's a humility to that.
Marc:And then like the humor that comes out of that is better than thinking you have it figured out or beating yourself up or saying, you know, we're all bad.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:You know, I got away from that, you know, because I couldn't couldn't handle the stridency of it.
Guest:Yeah, I think you're totally right.
Guest:I also have the benefit of... I mean, just me being on stage is inherently political.
Guest:So if I talk about my personal life, it's already kind of creating space and rocking the boat.
Marc:But I think it's always better to come from there, don't you?
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I guess what I'm saying is my view on it has always been that I share a lot about my personal life.
Guest:I mean, there's like tons that I don't share.
Guest:There are absolutely...
Guest:many things that are reserved for just me or for just me and my wife or for my family.
Guest:But I've always shared a lot of my personal life because I don't actually see that out there in the comedy world that much.
Guest:I mean, you talk so much about your personal life.
Guest:Yeah, it's boring.
Guest:No, but I just think the door that was opened by comics that were your peers and that are your peers,
Guest:Toward getting more and more personal.
Guest:Like I still didn't see a ton of there aren't a ton of women and there aren't a ton of gay women.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And also like but like I think I think what I'm hearing you say is that it's challenging now when things are as scary and, you know, seemingly a little hopeless.
Yeah.
Marc:You know, to get to that, to get up there and be like, okay, I'm going to be funny for you now.
Guest:Also mad.
Guest:Mad.
Guest:Mad.
Guest:That's actually what I'm really struggling with the most.
Guest:I mean, it's working.
Guest:It's, you know, I had a great time on tour because I think people wanted to see that a little bit.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:But, you know, also, the thing that sucks about it or that's hard about it is when you're a woman and you yell.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's a fucking problem.
Yeah.
Guest:But when you're a woman right now and you're mad, the only thing you want to do is yell.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So it's real fucking catch 22.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I feel like.
Marc:You can yell.
Marc:You're allowed to.
Guest:Thank you for the permission.
Guest:I mean, I've been yelling for years.
Guest:I'm not going to stop yelling.
Guest:But Jesus, I can't believe.
Guest:I've never been this mad.
Guest:I've like never been this mad.
Marc:I don't think a lot of people have ever been this mad and this scared simultaneously.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, it's like exhausting.
Marc:Like, you know, I've got my own sort of persecution fantasies, but there's very real persecution going on policy wise and culturally in a very real way for a lot of people that were making some progress.
Guest:That is interesting because comedy, stand-up specifically, is often a response to persecution.
Guest:Right?
Guest:Like that's where it comes from.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:From our childhoods feeling persecuted.
Guest:Alienated.
Guest:The glimmer of hope that I have is that
Guest:since there is since there are on a daily basis there are so many real examples of persecution that people that fall in those communities will like rise to the top in a way that we didn't before i mean i've had a pretty successful career it's not like i'm for where i'm at i'm not like bummed i'm just saying that i think it's great if what this leads it
Guest:Like if black women get talk shows right now, that is great.
Guest:That makes me happy.
Marc:More voices being heard.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:That's a good place to wrap it up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just on black women getting talk shows.
Marc:And I'm behind that 100%.
Marc:Thanks for talking.
Guest:Yeah, Mark.
Yeah.
Marc:Okay, so that was me and Cameron Esposito chatting here in the garage.
Marc:Coming up shortly is Macaulay Culkin.
Marc:I'm sorry, this transition has been a bit difficult for me.
Marc:And I know there's just a lot of commotion going on outside.
Marc:There's a machine running, but this is not going to be how it's going to be.
Marc:Just bear with me another week or two, another episode or two, you know?
Marc:I don't even know how much you can hear that noise, but I'm trying not to fester on it.
Marc:But, excuse me, we'll just keep moving.
Marc:We'll keep moving on.
Marc:We'll keep moving through.
Marc:It's not going to be this way on Thursday.
Marc:I don't even know how much you can hear it, but there's a little bit of chaos here at the house, folks.
Marc:That's all I'm saying.
Marc:But that was Cameron Esposito.
Marc:You can get her recent stand-up record back-to-back.
Marc:You can get that where you get your CDs and records.
Marc:Also listen to Query with Cameron Esposito.
Marc:And, yeah, it was nice to see her.
Marc:As I said earlier, when I got the opportunity to speak to Macaulay Culkin, I realized that he doesn't go out and speak much.
Marc:We all know who Macaulay Culkin is, and he is one of those people that you kind of think to yourself, well, what's going on with that guy?
Marc:Where's he been?
Marc:What's he doing?
Marc:How did life end up for Macaulay Culkin?
Marc:Well, it ended up all right, and he's got a new podcast called Bunny Ears.
Marc:You can get it wherever you get podcasts.
Marc:I went into it with an open mind, and it was nice to see him.
Guest:So this is me talking to Macaulay Culkin.
Guest:So what did you tell me to call you?
Marc:Mac.
Guest:Mac.
Guest:Yeah, it's one syllable.
Guest:It's a lot easier.
Marc:Is that how it goes?
Marc:Mac?
Marc:Have you been Mac the whole life?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:It's kind of like both a nickname and my name, really.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So, now, what have you been doing?
Marc:Where have you been living?
Marc:What's going on?
Guest:Do you live in New York?
Guest:Do you live in Paris?
Guest:Where do you live?
Guest:Yeah, I've been living in Paris and New York.
Guest:I've been in New York a little bit more.
Marc:But what goes on in Paris?
Marc:You just moved there out of nowhere?
Guest:Well, I was going there for a little while, and it was one of those things where people would ... I thought nobody recognized me, and what it was was, no, we recognize you.
Guest:We just don't care.
Guest:Right.
Guest:oh yeah that's better is that better where have you people been my whole life kind of thing yeah no i get all the benefits like you know and like you know a lot less of like you know yeah like you know the negatives yeah um and yeah i have a nice like you know group of friends out there and they always ask me um two questions when are you gonna learn french and we're gonna move out here yeah and so during one of my trips i said when are you gonna move out here and i said how's next week yeah and so i just left my baggage there went home settled some affairs for a week yeah i've been living in paris for like the last like four years four years yeah
Guest:And my French is still terrible.
Guest:And you still have your place in New York?
Guest:Yes, I do.
Guest:I bought in the 90s.
Guest:Oh, that's great.
Marc:It's nice to know that you own a little property if the shit goes down.
Guest:It is my insurance policy.
Guest:Let's just put it that way.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:I have money tied up in real estate.
Marc:So why Paris, man?
Marc:What drew you?
Guest:Well, you know, the food sucks, the wine's terrible, and the women are ugly.
Guest:But otherwise.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I mean, of course.
Guest:It's like I live well out there.
Guest:Honestly, I've never shit better in my life.
Guest:Like, you know, out there.
Guest:My bowels enjoy being out there.
Guest:Really?
Guest:That kind of thing.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:No, you eat well.
Guest:Everything spoils in a day or two.
Guest:Because it's all so fresh and good?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:I noticed that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's like everything feels local in a way.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like you feel like you're eating real vegetables.
Marc:Well, it's a bakery.
Marc:Real cheeses.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:A boulangerie, a bakery out there.
Guest:Can't call itself a boulangerie, a bakery, unless they bake their own baguettes from scratch every single day.
Guest:So it's a food thing.
Guest:You went there for the food.
Guest:Well, I mean, like I said, it's a part of it.
Guest:It's a part of it.
Marc:Did you have a romantic idea of what Paris was?
Marc:I mean, or is there, like you don't speak French, so are you spending most of your time with expats or...
Guest:I do find a lot of expats at cafes and things like that.
Guest:In the same way if a French person was in LA and they hear someone speaking French two tables over, their ears will just ping.
Marc:I'm going to go talk to that guy.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Invite them over to your table and offer them a glass of wine or some coffee or something like that.
Guest:So I do find that.
Marc:I guess what I'm trying to figure out is did you retire there?
Guest:I mean, I, I, I've been, you know, I've been, I'm, I'm a 30 something retired person pretty much.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Like, you know, exactly.
Guest:Like walking around with a baguette tucked under my arm, like, you know, and living the romantic life.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But also when I was, you know, going around Europe, I, I, you know, did one of those things where you go around for months and months and months.
Guest:Oh,
Guest:you did that and yeah yeah for like a good like half a year and uh i didn't want to be that guy who came back and said paris is great blah blah blah blah it's beautiful and i became that guy yeah like i couldn't help it like i i did really enjoy it you know it worked to my sensibilities sure you know they eat light breakfasts i know it's a food thing and then yeah and then like you know uh and so like you know like it looks so that kind of lifestyle uh and what do you do during the day do you what do you read a book what do you do are you
Guest:You know, I write, I paint.
Guest:You paint?
Guest:I sleep, I drink.
Guest:Yes, I paint.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I've shown.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Abstract, figurative?
Marc:What do you do?
Guest:A little more abstract-y kind of stuff, but also, yeah, like, you know, I've been playing a lot with, like, some, like, real kind of, like...
Guest:Still life or some figurative kind of like charcoals and everything like that.
Guest:After the last shootings out there in Paris, there was a curfew, so you couldn't leave your house kind of thing.
Guest:And so all I did was just play with charcoals until I went insane.
Guest:Because I normally don't leave my house, but the fact that I couldn't leave my house drove me insane.
Guest:Drove you to charcoal.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Drove me to charcoal.
Marc:Do you have a studio?
Marc:Or is your place big enough?
Guest:Yeah, I have a space in my apartment kind of thing.
Guest:I made sure I got a two-bedroom because I like kind of being the Gertrude Stein of Paris, which is redundant.
Guest:But I like hosting a lot of my friends in bands and things like that that are always touring, so I like to host.
Guest:I wanted to try on that.
Guest:But also I have studio space.
Marc:And you've got your canvases on the easel?
Guest:Yep, pretty much.
Guest:Yep, yep.
Guest:That's exactly what it is.
Guest:It looks really, really cute.
Guest:And there's also just stains all over the floor and everything like that from the bottom of my feet.
Guest:It's very romantical.
Guest:It really is.
Marc:It sounds like you're doing the whole thing.
Guest:Yeah, I'm going there.
Guest:I've been going there.
Marc:What are you writing in Paris?
Guest:uh i i write all kinds of stuff i write you know like you know i i the book that i'm working on my next book that i'm working on is more of a series of short stories that's a little more clean yeah my first book that i publish is very very more like journaling kind of uh very much a 20 year old it's very very juvenile in that kind of way because i wrote it when i was 20. yeah um so this one's gonna be a little clean but also i write a lot of just really weird like kooky kind of things i get
Guest:i wish i could show it to you so you can actually see it yeah it's yeah exactly it's bits and pieces like notebook like this might be a poem it might be a saying it might be an adage exactly it it's it's it's very notebooky you know but you know whatever that was the first book uh well yeah it was like that and that's kind of like i also work on that kind of stuff always it's kind of just how i stylistically will kind of go or at least when i'm kind of in my manic state and can't sleep are you manic
Guest:Do you get that?
Guest:Yeah, I can go there.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:There's certain times where I'm just awake for two days or whatever.
Guest:And just a certain kind of energy gets me over.
Guest:But then next thing you know, I sleep for three days too.
Marc:But is it like a diagnosed thing?
Marc:Do you take medicine for it?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:My lifestyle affords me the opportunity to be that way.
Guest:Let's put it that way.
Marc:So you don't have to worry about...
Marc:So what if you're up for a week?
Marc:As long as you don't hurt anybody or yourself.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:But you don't get the downs with it?
Guest:No, no, it's not manic depressive.
Marc:You just get mania?
Guest:Yeah, it's kind of just, oh, yeah, kind of get this, like, I can't sleep kind of thing, which is fine.
Guest:Like, I'm totally happy with that.
Marc:Yeah, so let's go back.
Marc:Yeah, okay, sure.
Marc:Wait, why?
Marc:How'd you get here?
Guest:Let's go back.
Guest:Let's go back to this morning.
Guest:You don't have a place here?
Guest:Not in LA, no, not anymore.
Guest:I did live out here for the better part of eight years though.
Guest:When you were like a kid?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:It was actually in my 20s when I was dating a lady that lived out here.
Guest:So more and more my stuff ended up out here and then I had a key.
Guest:Which lady?
Guest:Just a lady.
Guest:A vague lady?
Guest:A lady.
Guest:Unknown lady?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not a famous lady?
Guest:A lady friend.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You had a lady friend out here.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I had a lady friend out here.
Guest:And so, yeah.
Guest:So for nearly all my 20s, I was actually out here.
Guest:But it was in West Hollywood, so it was very walkable.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I still don't have a driver's license.
Guest:I'm a New Yorker through and through.
Guest:Still.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:Trains are great.
Guest:Yeah, but I was able to do, it was pre-Uber, so I actually had every number for every single taxi company.
Guest:And I knew which neighborhoods they serviced.
Guest:Isn't that wild, you had to wait for a cab?
Guest:Yeah, right, exactly, it looked like a taxi.
Marc:And at that time, were you living the life?
Marc:Did you have a lot of friends out here?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, LA, like any other place is what you make it.
Guest:Same thing with Paris, whatever.
Guest:And so, yeah, if you surround yourself with the right kind of people and- Yeah.
Guest:Did you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I did.
Guest:I did.
Guest:Well, for the most part.
Guest:With like one exception.
Guest:Who is that?
Guest:No, I'm not going there.
Guest:No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Guest:All right, man.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Listen, I'm trying not to be too guarded with you.
Guest:Are you friends with your brother?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My brother is- I'm third of seven.
Guest:But yeah, the actor-
Guest:Yeah, no, actually Rory, my brother Rory is the youngest.
Guest:He acts and Kieran.
Guest:Kieran acts too, right?
Guest:Are they out here?
Guest:No, no, they're in New York.
Guest:I'm the only person who's ever lived outside of New York City.
Guest:So you're all still in New York?
Guest:Yeah, we're a New York family kind of thing.
Guest:I'm the adventurous one.
Guest:I'm the one who like, yeah, we'll live out in Los Angeles or in Paris or whatever.
Guest:And they, like all, there's, how many are there?
Guest:I'm third of seven.
Guest:So my mother didn't have a family.
Guest:She had a litter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Is she still around?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, she is.
Guest:She's married in Montana.
Guest:She's a rancher's wife now.
Guest:I just went to go visit her.
Guest:She has chickens and horses and the whole works.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She was from North Dakota originally.
Guest:And so she kind of doubled back in her kind of twilight years.
Marc:Did she grow up with ranchers?
Guest:uh her father was a rancher and like yeah some of her serious because she's like 11 of 13 like she had like half the size family that she came from really yeah barefoot and pregnant that was kind of the uh the philosophy when did she start having kids in uh uh 75 76 and who's the oldest
Guest:My oldest is Shane.
Guest:So they went with, so there was Shane and Dakota.
Guest:So they were like very Western kind of names.
Guest:Like, yeah, like kind of.
Guest:And then they went straight Irish for the rest of the names for a while.
Guest:And Macaulay and Kieran, you know, yeah.
Guest:Christian Patrick Culkin, you know, yeah.
Marc:And she's in Montana.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:Married to a rancher.
Marc:Married to a rancher.
Marc:And she never married your father.
Marc:Nope.
Guest:No, they were never married.
Marc:This is actually their first marriage.
Guest:And they had seven kids?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:And in a one-bedroom apartment.
Guest:Stop.
Guest:Yeah, in a one-bedroom apartment.
Guest:It was called Yorkville back then.
Guest:Now it's called Spanish Harlem.
Guest:And yeah, they stacked us on top of each other.
Guest:It was a four-room apartment for nine people.
Guest:What the hell were they thinking?
Guest:That's exactly the phrasing I said to her.
Guest:I said, Mom, what the hell were you freaking thinking?
Marc:And what did she say?
Guest:yeah she kind of just i i liked i like kids i you know i i this is what i wanted like i said there was a certain kind of barefoot pregnant kind of thing that i think she felt that that's what a woman's kind of place was a little bit but i mean but seven i know believe me she couldn't even afford one they couldn't even afford one believe you me but you're yeah until they they turned you out yeah right yeah indeed no they put us to freaking work fast you know yeah yeah
Guest:I was just the third one that they tried to turn out.
Guest:This one's cute.
Guest:Get him in front of the camera.
Guest:There you go.
Guest:Push him out under the spotlight.
Guest:This one can talk.
Marc:By the grace of God, go I. They were broke, but she didn't work?
Marc:She wasn't in New York for a reason?
Guest:No, my father pretty much plucked her off the side of a road.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In North Dakota?
Guest:Yeah, in North Dakota.
Guest:If you've driven on a road in North Dakota, chances are my family helped build it in one form or another.
Guest:And so she was the stop slow chick with the sign.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:And my father was driving cross country.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:And he was like 27 and she was 17 and pretty much plucked her off the side of the road.
Guest:really yeah yeah and she was pretty too she was a pretty you know she was a pyt uh and uh uh yeah brought her back to new york and she'd walk around uh central park barefoot she'd pick the flowers and everyone's like don't pick the flowers like in here really so she so was this hippie time yeah hippie dippy yeah this is like mid 70s yeah yeah yeah but your old man what what did he do
Guest:uh he was a uh uh he was an attempted actor dancer uh pretty much everything that i've done in my life yeah he's like i failed i'll make the kid do it or what i mean essentially like yeah there was an element of that kind of thing and i was actually an afterthought it was my older brother that he was kind of just wanted him to be the dancer shane he was the oldest shane what's he do now
Guest:He floats.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He floats around.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:He's floating.
Guest:How old is he?
Guest:He's 41.
Guest:My mother has a kid in her 40s and a kid still in her 20s kind of thing.
Guest:We span from Gerald Ford to H.W.
Guest:Bush.
Guest:This generation.
Guest:So Shane floats.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But in general, I wanted him to be the actor, dancer, and it was kind of just, well, just take Mac along.
Guest:Let's see what happens kind of thing.
Guest:And next thing you know, I'm booking every gig.
Guest:I get into school for Mac and Ballet like this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I was a professional ballet dancer for a couple of years.
Guest:As a kid?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, what is there to do other than Swan Lake and the Nutcracker?
Guest:Nutcracker and things like that.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And also, it was one of those things where- I don't know if you know, there's no kids in Swan Lake, is there?
Guest:No, it's just a Nutcracker.
Guest:I don't think so.
Guest:It's pretty much just a Nutcracker.
Guest:You wait around a year.
Guest:Our season revolves around the Nutcracker, for sure.
Guest:But I remember showing up to my class because it was, the audition was just like, it was a breeze kind of thing.
Guest:And then I show up and I go, no wonder it was a breeze.
Guest:I'm the third boy and there's like 40 girls in there.
Guest:which is a great ratio.
Guest:I'll take it.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:Seven?
Guest:Yeah, like seven, eight kind of thing.
Marc:I did like the 88, 89 seasons and things like that.
Marc:Okay, so that was your first showbiz gig.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Doing the ballet.
Guest:No, actually, I did a lot of Off-Broadway, too, before that kind of thing.
Guest:I did some Gilbert and Sullivan kind of thing.
Guest:Like you were the little kid.
Guest:I was the little sailor boy on the HMS Pinafore.
Guest:That was me.
Guest:I was actually just listening to it last night.
Guest:I was introducing my girlfriend to Gilbert and Sullivan.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she'd never heard it before?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I mean, who has?
Guest:Right.
Guest:I'm sure most of your listeners are well-versed in Gilbert and Sullivan.
Guest:Come on.
Marc:I don't know if I could name a bunch, but I know that they wrote a lot of musicals, right?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:H. Rose Pinafore, The Mikado, Yoan of the Guard.
Guest:I'm well-versed in those classics, at least.
Guest:You did a lot of musical theater.
Guest:I did a lot of that.
Guest:I did also a lot of different off-Broadway stuff, ensemble studio theater, like Black Box Theater kind of things.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So your old man knew the ropes in a way.
Guest:He'd been kicked around a little bit.
Guest:He did some stuff when he was a kid and again with the dancing and all that kind of stuff, but also with the acting.
Guest:He pretty much never made it be on chorus on a Broadway kind of level.
Guest:He was kind of just like, yeah, guy number three kind of thing.
Guest:And so he did that for a while and then maybe booked some off-Broadway things.
Guest:Dried up?
Guest:And then kind of dried up and I think he had an incident.
Guest:And then next thing you know, he's having a family.
Guest:He had an incident?
Guest:Okay, I might be telling this story wrong.
Guest:So doing King Lear off, off, off Broadway.
Guest:He's playing Gloucester.
Guest:Way off.
Guest:Way off Broadway.
Guest:He's playing Gloucester and Gloucester gets his eyes poked out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In like the second act.
Guest:And actually he wore a mask, which actually I grew up with.
Guest:It's actually really scary.
Guest:And it was kind of just a mask with like bloody eyes coming off of it.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:So he is so into his part, he closes his eyes.
Guest:And so he's doing this soliloquy and he's getting closer and closer to the edge of the stage.
Guest:And he doesn't notice because he's so into the part because he's blind.
Guest:And then he spills into the first row and hurts himself.
Guest:This is opening night.
Guest:And injures himself and can't do the rest of the run of the whole show.
Guest:And apparently that was like the last acting gig he ever did because it was quite embarrassing.
Guest:And I remember actually talking to a producer when I was doing some theater stuff as an adult.
Guest:And he goes, that was your father?
Guest:And I go, yep.
Guest:It's kind of like, it's semi-notorious.
Guest:It's a myth.
Guest:It's a myth.
Guest:He's a myth.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:It's infamous.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:No, a couple of- The infamous blind fall.
Guest:Culkin's have a couple of those Broadway, Off-Broadway kind of stories.
Guest:My brother Shane, he, in Spalding Gray's A Monster in a Box, at the end, he talks about doing R-Town.
Guest:And my brother Shane was there.
Guest:And he talks about the kid who vomited on stage.
Guest:that's my brother shane uh uh kieran did a show where he uh where the other characters were smoking a joint uh you know and uh he put real pot in one day uh-huh so like it actually made the whole like the whole theater smell like pot right and like yeah there's lots of those kind of like wait that was your brother that was your father that was your brother like yep yep no we're
Guest:We have a lot of notorious stories.
Marc:You're a theater family that doesn't have a lot of success, but it has some dramatic incidents.
Marc:Yeah, apparently.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Other than you.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:No, actually, your brother's gone on.
Guest:Kieran and Rory.
Guest:They both do good.
Guest:And they hustle.
Guest:I mean, as a kid, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, yeah.
Guest:I mean, Kieran worked a good amount, too.
Guest:Kieran's actually always kind of been working, and then he took a big, long break, and now he's kind of getting back into it now that he's married.
Guest:Does anyone have kids?
Guest:Kids gotta earn, you know?
Marc:Has he got kids?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:No one's got kids?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Seven, you know, my mother has seven, like, children, and none of them have, we have no, you know, I have no nieces or nephews.
Guest:And I said, like, Ma, don't you think that he actually kind of messes up a little bit?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We're very hesitant to pull the trigger.
Guest:Maybe.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:So let me understand.
Marc:Now, do you get along with your father still or you don't?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I haven't spoken to him in about a quarter of a century almost.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:So that's the way that goes.
Guest:yeah it's the way it goes it's it's the way it has to be um i understand that i yeah i was never tight with him to begin with and so it's kind of just it's like my concept of a father almost is one of those things that you like get from like uh tv shows and movies yeah you know rather than actually having that affection for a father sure yeah yeah i was never tight with him yeah i got a difficult father but not not in the same way i don't imagine but um
Marc:But, like, let's go, like, when you started doing the movies and the TV, what was the first gigs that you had on film or on camera?
Guest:I started actually, like, I was very lucky.
Guest:I started booking movies kind of right off the bat.
Guest:Like, I didn't do a lot of commercials or anything like that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Not a lot of TV.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, guest spot on The Equalizer.
Guest:Remember that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But for the most part, it was just movie, movie, movie.
Guest:And then Billy Hopkins, who was a casting director,
Guest:uh just like he actually directed me in some of that black box theater kind of stuff yeah uh he also did a lot john hughes like things and so yeah he was a casting director yeah and then so then boom uncle buck happens and then you know rolls downhill yeah or yeah and that's good or bad oh no it was fantastic no are you kidding me again no shit's fantastic uncle buck was the was the first movie really
Guest:No, no, I'd already done like three or four things before then.
Guest:Like what?
Guest:It was Rocket Gibraltar, See You in the Morning.
Guest:I did a day on Born the Fourth of July.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:But it was cut out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then boom, yeah, Uncle Buck.
Guest:And then I just remember the final callbacks.
Guest:How old were you, man?
Guest:I was about seven or eight, something like that.
Guest:I just remember when I was auditioning with John Candy, I ended up going between his legs for some reason.
Guest:I was very, very physical, and it was kind of just like, yeah, there you go, kid.
Guest:I was just a fearless kind of kid.
Guest:I didn't really have perspective, so I kind of just did stuff.
Marc:But you had a sense of comedy.
Yeah.
Guest:I mean, sure.
Guest:That's not something that you learn, per se.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:Especially at that age.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I understood timing.
Guest:I like to make adults laugh.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Marc:Well, that's good.
Marc:I mean, it serves you well.
Marc:So when you do these auditions, when you're working with, I mean,
Marc:Because I've been on sets where they have kids, and everyone's got to be- Kids and animals, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, you got to be delicate.
Marc:It's just sort of, you got to be careful, and they've got to go to school at some point during the day.
Marc:Three hours a day.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So when you're working with someone like John Candy, what are your memories of that guy?
Guest:He was always really sweet.
Guest:He was really good with us, because it was me and another girl, Gabby Hoffman.
Guest:Who is now a big actress.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Guest:On Transparent.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:So, yeah, she's, you know, she's doing good.
Guest:Yeah, she's great.
Guest:Yeah, she's stuck to it.
Guest:Yeah, no, it's because you don't want to deal with freaking kids.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:And, like, honestly, he had a very gentle touch with us and all that.
Guest:Like, I think some of that was also developing rapport with us because he, you know, needed to translate to screen.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But at the same time, like, now, compared to, like, other people that I'd worked with when I was a child, like, yeah, he was...
Guest:He had a deft touch.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And he's a good guy.
Guest:And he was a good dude.
Guest:Like, he sincerely, like, yeah.
Guest:Like, I liked him, and he was always just like, yeah.
Guest:He figured out, I think, something really early on with me back then was ask me a question.
Guest:And I'll start rattling off.
Guest:And so, like, just let the kid prattle on.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:That'll keep the kid entertained if you kind of just ask him questions.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It wasn't like he was, like, pulling out a quarter behind my ear kind of thing.
Guest:He needs to entertain you.
Guest:Yeah, kind of like, what do you think of those Teamsters?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:you just go yeah so you're kind of a low maintenance kid uh yeah yeah i'm talking well here's the thing is that they always kind of want like the kid like especially like the stuff they were asking me to do very very physical very very loud very big and boisterous yeah uh so they wanted me like you know practically hopped up on sugar practically yeah and then at the same time when you don't want that it's hard for the kid to wind down a little bit right yeah yeah yeah so you're always wound up
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, exactly.
Guest:But I mean, this is not like a Judy Garland kind of thing.
Guest:They're not hopping me up with reds and blues and all that kind of stuff.
Guest:It wasn't like that.
Guest:Just candy?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:It was just like, here's a Coca-Cola kid, now action.
Guest:Now, who was on set with you usually?
Guest:Your mom?
Guest:It was usually my father, actually.
Guest:Yeah, I was on the road with him a lot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:so so he took charge uh yes no he was definitely took the reins and all that kind of stuff yeah it's not like i made like career decisions like i sure i it's like i read the script and said like oh yeah i want to do this kind of thing right kind of just like oh you're going to read this script right and like you know are you not you're going to do this script like yeah i didn't read home alone before i did it i would do i would do the scenes individually i i knew what the gist was yeah yeah but he decided yeah yeah
Guest:Yeah, I'm a schmucky kid.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:You did all right.
Guest:Yeah, no, I mean, I guess.
Guest:Well, thank you.
Guest:Yeah, but it was also learn your lines, you know, hit your marks, find your light.
Guest:Who said that?
Guest:That was just kind of the way it was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:Sure, yeah.
Marc:But wait, but like how many movies you do with John Hughes?
Marc:Three?
Guest:Three.
Guest:Actually, after he died, I realized I'd actually done as many John Hughes movies as Molly Ringwald, technically.
Guest:Because people associate Molly Ringwald with John Hughes, at least early John Hughes.
Marc:Pretty in Pink, The Breakfast Club, and what was the other one?
Guest:Sweet Sixteen.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Yeah, or 16 Candles.
Guest:16 Candles, yeah.
Guest:But actually, it was John Candy.
Guest:He did nine movies with him.
Guest:But yeah, I did three, yeah.
Guest:And what was your impression of him?
Guest:He was fantastic.
Guest:He was soft and sweet.
Guest:He was, again, good with me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But also had just a soft and sweetness to him.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And actually cared.
Guest:Actually gave a crap.
Guest:Would actually ask me how I was doing.
Guest:And when I got older, he would actually ask me.
Guest:He would talk to me like an adult, and other people didn't do that to me.
Guest:So, you know, I hold him in very, very high regard.
Marc:And he seemed like he was a very... Well, he definitely understood the mind of kids through adolescence, the arc of that.
Guest:And then he started moving backwards.
Guest:Then he started doing a lot of kids' movies.
Guest:Because, I mean, he wrote little Beethoven movies.
Guest:People don't realize that.
Guest:He wrote, like, Baby's Day Out.
Guest:oh yeah no he wrote like yeah he actually wrote uh or at least he pitched and it was his pitch was made in manhattan and drill bit taylor remember those drill bit taylor that was the adam sandler project no no that's owen wilson owen wilson oh yeah they hire a bodyguard yeah right right yeah yeah they made that movie no exactly no that's what i mean people don't realize that those are actually technically john hughes movies right that they were just those are old pitches of his
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So which one is it?
Marc:But he only directed you in two?
Guest:No, directed me in Uncle Buck, and that was virtually it.
Guest:That was it?
Guest:That was pretty much it.
Marc:And he wrote Home Alone?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:He wrote both the Home Alone movies, exactly.
Guest:But he was around?
Guest:Yeah, no, yeah, of course.
Guest:He would pop in, but also it was that writer kind of thing.
Guest:And he did hand the reins over to Chris Columbus.
Guest:And the thing is, he wrote Home Alone specifically for me.
Guest:yeah uh after uncle buck kind of thing he it was that that thing of the kid looking through like the the little uh mail slot yeah protecting his home yeah and he was like and so he pretty much he literally spent a weekend and wrote home alone for me and he gave it to chris columbus so chris columbus wasn't going to like just give me the part just on his say so yeah and so like yeah no i had to work for it yeah i had to hustle but it was also the last audition i did in a long long time too how was daniel stern
Guest:Always sweet.
Guest:Again, what you have to remember is that I'm not really in a lot of scenes with those guys.
Marc:I guess that's true.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, that's the thing.
Guest:It's almost... My buddy brought it up the other day.
Guest:He goes, it's closer to castaway in a certain extent.
Guest:Where it's like, no, I do a lot of scenes by myself, talking to myself.
Guest:I'm really just in like... Yeah.
Guest:You can probably count on just... Definitely on one hand, but probably on like two or three fingers, how many scenes I were...
Guest:Oh, because they just shot that other side later.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:This is going on over here, that's going on over there, and then finally it all happens, you know, at the end.
Guest:Even the crawling, you know, like across the rope or things like that, or like, you know, the tarantula-y kind of like things, that's all, that's...
Marc:that's all like not in the same room also because I can only work X amount of hours a day too so they had to figure out how to be economical about it yep yeah so you didn't get to really hang out with like Catherine O'Hara or Pesci or anything not really because also I'm not working with them like you know what I mean even though we're in the same movie I'm not working with them it's so sad to know how the fucking sausage is made sometimes right right exactly
Marc:I mean, that's why theater is sort of beautiful.
Marc:Yeah, because it's intertwined no matter what.
Marc:Yeah, and it's in real time, and it's not a bunch of takes.
Marc:It's not so weirdly kind of workman-like.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:It's like, all right, we got that coverage.
Marc:Now we're going to go in closer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:exactly it's not as savage you know well it's it's the uh they say what is it uh tv is the writers forum yeah uh because i was actually surprised when i've done some tv where it's like after every take all the writers get together with you and direct you try like this yeah exactly yeah uh and then movie you know film is a director's forum yeah essentially doesn't matter like even what you do like he's going to use whatever take he wants that's right and theater is the actors forum
Guest:It doesn't matter what's written on the page.
Guest:It doesn't matter what the director tells you to do.
Guest:You can get up there and do whatever you want.
Marc:You can fuck up the show on your own.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:You can close your eyes and fall off the front of the stage during Lear.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:It's up to you.
Guest:You can get all Gloucester on it.
Guest:I've always enjoyed theater.
Guest:Theater is actually my favorite form.
Marc:When you think back, when you look back on, if you want to smoke, you can smoke in here.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You can pull that shit out of there.
Guest:Look at you.
Guest:You are a delight, sir.
Marc:But what do you remember about that time?
Marc:Like, because it was pretty crazy, right?
Marc:I mean, like now, like, because I don't know, like I imagine whatever, you know, we can move through whatever went down between you and your old man.
Marc:But I imagine that, you know, he was probably living it up and and you were living it up as much as a nine year old could.
Marc:But I mean, what did it look like for you out here?
Guest:um well the thing is actually money didn't really start rolling in until like you know after that kind of thing it's not like i got paid like you know a truckload uh you know for home alone but not until the second one maybe yeah pretty much yeah that's when like yeah like that's you know because you had some back end on that yeah exactly we were still living in that one bedroom apartment come on people like for after after home alone came out yeah yeah it took us a minute like you know to get all that kind of stuff uh-huh you know going and out there
Guest:And here's the way I'll put it, is that I didn't know any other life.
Guest:So this is like, this is the way it works.
Guest:This is the hero's journey, essentially, you know?
Guest:It's, you know, oh, you start working, you start working little black box theaters, and then you start booking small movies, then you do big movies, and then you're a big, fat superstar, and that's the way it works.
Guest:At 10.
Guest:Well, you don't know, but you have no perspective.
Marc:No, I know, but you're right, but that is sort of the way it works at any age.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, I mean, you know, oddly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oddly, you were able to get some theater chops in.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Get some ballet chops in and some black box theater in there.
Guest:Yeah, they really paid you dues.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:No, believe you me.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:I mean, you know, because, yeah, because I was on the circuit.
Guest:Thankfully, I got off the circuit for a while.
Guest:But, like, yeah, doing those nine auditions a day in the dead of summer kind of thing.
Guest:Oh, you mean after Home Alone?
Guest:No, before, before, like, yeah, no, I mean, I didn't, like, I mean, I hustled, you know, I hustled for my dinner.
Marc:Yeah, but was your father, like, running all you guys?
Marc:Just me and Kieran were booking a lot.
Marc:Yeah, and Rory, too, but he was young.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, he was young, but also he played young me in, like, a zillion movies, because he actually looks a lot like me.
Guest:So, like, yeah, pretty much every picture of young me or any kind of thing, like, yeah, no, it's Rory.
Guest:He built a career out of being young you.
Guest:Yep, exactly.
Guest:But now...
Guest:Now, that kid is always working.
Guest:It's hilarious.
Guest:Now?
Guest:I'll reach out to him and kind of like, yeah, I'm in Hungary right now.
Guest:He's doing just a zillion indies.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Marc:How old is he now?
Guest:He is, what, 28?
Guest:28?
Guest:Yeah, 28, 29.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Yeah, no, and like I said, he hustles.
Guest:He's always in perpetual motion.
Guest:He's actually never stopped ever since he had his teens.
Guest:He's always doing something.
Guest:He was, you know, he was in, spoiler alert, he was the killer in Scream 4, like that kind of thing.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:He's doing stuff.
Guest:He'll do whatever.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:He'll do it.
Guest:He hustles for his dinner.
Guest:He likes to work.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:He likes to work.
Guest:He enjoys the business.
Guest:It was him and my old brother that was a little bit older than him.
Guest:they would be on the set of Home Alone 2, and Chris, the one who's a little older, would go, there's the burglars.
Guest:And Roy would go, oh, there's Joe Pesci and Daniel Stern.
Guest:Even though he was younger, he actually got it.
Guest:What does Chris do?
Guest:He is floating around.
Guest:He writes a lot.
Guest:He was writing for a magazine.
Guest:He majored in journalism and all that stuff.
Guest:And he just went back to school for a film.
Guest:So he's still in school.
Marc:Are any of the caulking kids just doing a regular job, a 9-to-5-er?
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:My sister is a chef.
Guest:She went to the French Culinary Institute, making that happen kind of thing.
Marc:Is she at a restaurant now?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:She's doing her thing.
Guest:She's doing her thing.
Guest:And you guys get together all together?
Guest:Every once in a while.
Guest:We try to make that happen.
Guest:I've been away for a lot of these holidays recently.
Guest:This holiday, I'm spending it with my girlfriend and things like that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, we make it happen.
Guest:We have game nights and things like that.
Marc:So your old man's running three.
Marc:Pretty much.
Marc:Just swapping you to auditions.
Marc:Running me into the ground.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And now, when did you sort of... What was the socialization?
Marc:Because when you hear...
Marc:Drew Barrymore talk or any other, you know, child actors, you know, who went on to exist in the business.
Marc:There seemed to be a strange world for them, like if they weren't protected properly.
Marc:Did you find that?
Guest:Well, yeah, I mean, it's the balance between being protected properly and being overly protected.
Guest:because otherwise you have no social skills.
Guest:And so after I did Richie Rich, like in 93 or 94 or something like that, my father and my mother finally called it quits, which was one of the best things that ever happened.
Guest:I was able to actually walk away from the business.
Guest:I even wanted to take a break for a while, and eventually I just was like, I'm done.
Guest:I'm done, guys.
Guest:I hope you all made your money because there's no more coming from me.
Marc:Really?
Marc:I quit for like eight years.
Marc:More specifically, when you're out here, how do you end up having a relationship with Michael Jackson?
Guest:Oh, that was, he actually, well, we'd actually met when I was actually doing the Nutcracker on Lincoln Center.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He came backstage before the show, and of course, like, everyone's, you know, like... He loved the Nutcracker?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, he loved dance, man.
Guest:Like, he was a dance man.
Marc:Yeah, he was a dancer, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, and so, Doug, that actually...
Guest:Funny enough, he actually came backstage with Donald Trump because they were friendly back then.
Guest:Is that true?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Pre-precedential.
Guest:I mean, I'm talking like 1988 Donald Trump.
Guest:And how old are you?
Guest:You're like eight?
Guest:Like eight, yeah.
Guest:And we met, and that's the thing is that I would do Uncle Buck or whatever, and then I'd race back to New York to do my ballet stuff.
Marc:Once your gig.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:But I remember he looked at me and was like,
Guest:I know you from somewhere.
Guest:I was like, yeah.
Guest:I said, I also do movies also kind of thing.
Guest:And he was like, and then I think he finally found it.
Guest:He's like, oh, Uncle Buck.
Guest:And I'm like, yeah, that's me.
Guest:He goes, yeah, you're funny.
Guest:I'm like, oh, thanks.
Guest:And that was about it.
Guest:And what did Trump say?
Guest:Anything?
Guest:Gosh, it wasn't memorable.
Guest:And then after Home Alone came out, he reached out to me and my family kind of just...
Guest:Listen, there's no child actor self-help group or anything like that.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Sometimes you reach out to certain kids if you want to make sure they're all right kind of thing.
Guest:Believe you me, I've extended the same kind of before.
Guest:Nothing too crazy, but he's like, yeah, do you want to hang out?
Guest:I know things are weird.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So come over to my house, that kind of thing.
Guest:And so, yeah, so with my whole family and, you know, like we were friends.
Guest:We were like, seriously, he was like my best friend growing up for like a good fat stretch of my life.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Look, it's it was it was legitimate friendship.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, do you think what was it?
Marc:He was emotionally young.
Guest:yeah he was well it was also he enjoyed he enjoyed like kind of just you know at least you know i can speak for myself at least he enjoyed my youthfulness yeah kind of thing right yeah and of course he was a kid himself he kind of like he he liked being a kid like with me like right you know like and my brother and like you know but it was but yet he was like what 20 years older uh yeah that seems about right yeah something like that but like he never really like you know i mean you know you can get all kind of like you know
Guest:do all the psychology oh he never had his childhood all i can speak to really is you know like the way he was and you know you know despite whatever the reasoning was kind of thing but no he likes being around kids and it wasn't odd no to you it was honestly it never struck me as odd i never felt uncomfortable or anything like that i never thought it was weird because it was actually like he was that was the way that he was you
Guest:It was down to his bone marrow kind of thing.
Marc:So it wasn't... So it didn't come off as creepy because you bought it because it was authentic.
Guest:Yeah, I didn't buy it.
Guest:It just was.
Guest:He wasn't selling.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Look at that.
Guest:Yeah, it was just that.
Marc:You do want, there's some part of you that wants to, or me, you know, when you think about what you've heard in that situation, just in general, to make it, you know... Untoward.
Marc:Yeah, but that was not your experience.
Guest:That was not my experience at all, kind of thing.
Guest:Yeah, and it was...
Guest:It was the fact that my mind didn't go there.
Guest:That was one of the reasons why he liked hanging around a guy like me.
Guest:That kind of thing.
Guest:It was just like, yeah.
Guest:It never felt weird.
Guest:It was just the way that it was.
Guest:I looked at him for who he was.
Guest:Because listen, at that point, I was pretty famous, I guess.
Guest:And I'd met plenty of famous people.
Guest:His fame did not make a thing.
Guest:So I was not enamored by him.
Guest:you know i would get it yeah it was kind of just like you know we're we're right but you're friends but you're up there at the theme park or the the house yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and there was a lot of other kids around um sometimes kind of thing uh um but it's usually a family of staff kind of thing like you know like yeah like kind
Marc:I'm just like, oh, they'll have like a day.
Marc:Did he strike you as lonely and sad?
Marc:And like, did you ever get a read on it?
Guest:As I got older, there was a little bit of that.
Guest:Definitely.
Guest:You know, yeah.
Guest:Like, you know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But when I was younger, like, yeah, it was kind of just, you're nine, 10 years old.
Guest:You don't really read things in that kind of way.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Not unless it's dramatic.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:He wasn't sulking.
Guest:I think it was, if anything, if he was that way, when I hang out with him, it was a respite from that kind of loneliness.
Marc:Were you in touch with him up until the end?
Guest:Yeah, I hadn't spoken to him in a while because he was bouncing all over the place.
Guest:He was, I think, in Dubai for a while.
Guest:And then he was doing his...
Guest:He just didn't want to go back home.
Guest:He never went back to Santa Barbara again, kind of thing.
Guest:Again, because it just, I don't know, everything in his life felt tainted, you know, except for... Why?
Guest:Because that was what happened with that last trial.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, everything was tainted.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So that's why kind of just trying to start over a little bit.
Guest:And the only thing that really was important to him was his immediate family, his children and stuff.
Guest:Are you friends with them?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I'm the...
Guest:I'm the godfather, but I'm close with Paris.
Guest:I'm going to warn you now, I'm very protective of her.
Guest:I'm a very open book when it comes to things, but with her, it's like, no, she is beloved by me, and I'm like, yeah.
Marc:I'm not looking for anything.
Guest:I know, I know you're not, and I'm just, I know you're not, and I'm just letting you know, if you want to start going down that road, it's going to be a dead end.
Guest:But I mean that in the fact that I love her so much.
Guest:Oh, that's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she's doing all right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's tall and beautiful and smart.
Guest:Yeah, it's great.
Marc:So how old were you when you did SNL?
Marc:You hosted SNL, right?
Guest:Yeah, I was, I think I just turned 11.
Guest:I was promoting My Girl.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:11 years old?
Marc:Yep.
Marc:Who was on the cast?
Marc:What kind of debauchery was going on?
Guest:I was just about to say, this was the almost ideal cast because Carvey was Carvey's last season.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hartman was still there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Nealon was still there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Victoria Jackson, that whole group.
Guest:But Farley and Sandler and Rock and Myers were all there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it was that transitional year.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And how did they treat you?
Guest:They were all good with me.
Guest:I mean, like...
Guest:Listen, I mean, again, like it was one of those things where like, you know, I show up and like, you know, hit your mark, find your lights kind of thing.
Guest:And your dad's there.
Guest:Yeah, honestly, like, yeah, like they're pitching more to my dad really at that point.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's also kind of just like, yeah.
Guest:What can the kid do?
Guest:A little, you know, not so bad, but it's also kind of like, you know, Simon or Sprockets.
Guest:like Mike Myers I was like I can only do one you know so it was that kind of stuff a little bit and then like you know because you do those whatever like Monday meetings or whatever it is and then like on Tuesday they've already written something out and then Wednesday you know like I said I just showed up and but yeah my father my father was such a crazy person about like you know and then I did do the whole episode without cue cards he wanted you to do it without cue cards
Guest:So also that meant every other person in the cast couldn't have cue cards either in any scene that I was in.
Guest:No cue cards whatsoever.
Guest:That was your father's idea.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because he didn't like it when people glanced off and looked at the cue cards kind of thing.
Guest:So were you pretty good with the memory?
Guest:I mean, yeah.
Guest:I didn't miss my lines, man.
Guest:I totally did it.
Guest:Was that out of terror?
Guest:No, no, I was actually, I was just good, man.
Guest:Like, it's one of those things where I could, like, if I lost my place, I would just picture the page that I was reading off of and just read it.
Guest:Oh, you could do that?
Guest:I could do that back then.
Guest:You got that brain.
Guest:Now, now, now it's, you know, I'm running the corner to 40.
Guest:It's a little fuzzy nowadays, you know?
Guest:And who was the musical guest?
Guest:It was David Bowie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Tin Machine David Bowie, but David Bowie.
Marc:Oh, fucking Tin Machine, Hunt Sales on drums?
Guest:Yep.
Marc:Tony Sales on bass?
Marc:Yep.
Marc:I can't remember the guitar player's name, but Hunt Sales is a monster on those fucking drums.
Guest:No, it was super cool.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I love how it ages me, too.
Guest:It actually makes me sound even older than I was.
Marc:Well, Tim Machine's like... But also just David Bowie, just in general.
Marc:Makes it sound like I did the show in, like, 1982.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I miss him, man.
Marc:You know, it's like... I don't know how long... It's one of those things where...
Marc:You know, I don't know really the last time I checked in with a new Bowie album before he died, like I don't know Heathen or some of the other ones, but it was always nice knowing he was around.
Marc:Yeah, right?
Marc:Exactly, he was a totem.
Marc:And it's just like that last, right?
Marc:That Dark Star record is like, is that what it's called?
Marc:Dark Star or Black Star?
Marc:It's great, dude.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah, but did you get to talk to him?
Guest:Yeah, he was very sweet to me.
Guest:I mean, of course, I'm doing a zillion things and I'm 11 years old and I have to memorize an entire show.
Guest:But I just remember him being very sweet and jokey with me.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Again, teasing the kid.
Guest:Honestly, I'm 11 years old.
Guest:I don't know what Ziggy Stardust is from the hole in the wall.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Marc:But I actually think that he was a pretty proper dude underneath it all.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:It was more like we met in private kind of thing.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And when I'm doing the goodbyes at the end of the show, he puts his hat on me and then he keeps on pushing it forward so it's falling over my eyes.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So I'm trying to do my goodbyes and he keeps on doing that.
Guest:Oh, that's great, man.
Guest:But yeah, he was super sweet.
Guest:It was a good memory.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, totally.
Guest:I had a good time.
Guest:I mean, honestly, it was a lot of a blur.
Guest:I have a friend who works there now.
Guest:He does a lot of editing, Edmund.
Guest:And he said he asked around with the old-timers, have you ever heard of somebody doing the show without cue cards?
Guest:They're like, no, that's insane.
Guest:That's just completely insane.
Guest:Because they keep changing it right up to the wire, right?
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:And not only that, I had to memorize scenes that weren't in the show because you do the dress and all kind of stuff, and then they cut things.
Guest:So this was your dad's idea.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Professionals would know their lines.
Guest:That was the idea.
Guest:It is that kind of idea.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:So the entire show is acting on the behest of your father to honor this idea.
Marc:It's not a bad idea, but were you scared or were you just-
Marc:Honestly, I was always a really fearless kid.
Guest:I think that was- Scared of him, though.
Guest:Like, was he- Well, I mean, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Do good or I'll hit you.
Guest:Like, yeah, sure.
Guest:Like, you know what I mean?
Marc:But- I'm sorry, buddy.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Guest:You know, I'm not.
Guest:I'm not.
Guest:Because by the grace of God, here I am.
Guest:I wouldn't be the man I am today if it wasn't for, you know- You got to look at it that way after a certain point.
Guest:But yeah, no, he wanted me to do it without freaking cue cards.
Marc:And you're infamous for a good reason.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Not for falling down or fucking it up.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:You did it without cue cards.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:That's me.
Marc:That's me, kids.
Marc:So you said after Richie Rich, you kind of shut down the spigot.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:And your parents at that point were in the middle of divorce or they're divorced?
Guest:uh no they well they're separating like kind of thing it's more of a child custody thing because they were never married like even common law right so it's and then um i spent all that time pretty much going to high school like that's exactly what i'm a person yeah like i went there for almost purely social reasons really sure yeah i wanted to like yeah i wanted to be have other friends than michael jackson yeah i had other friends too you you cheapen my experience sir
Marc:but yeah no i wanted to uh yeah i wanted to like drink 40s and like you know get laid and smoke pot like that's what i wanted to do and that's what i did i i lived after richie rich pretty much so but it after their separation and after the fight and i imagine that's where it soured with you and your old man
Guest:No, it was sour from early on, even before the fame stuff.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you disliked him all through it?
Guest:Yeah, and he disliked me too.
Guest:We didn't like each other.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then all of a sudden, imagine now this man who you dislike kind of thing, and he dislikes you.
Guest:Now I become the sole focus of him when I start earning.
Guest:so now all of a sudden i'm like you know going around the country like locked in a room with a guy who doesn't like me kind of thing but at the same time like yeah it's how does that how why i was kind of even like relatively jealous you know well sure oh he was jealous i think so i i everything that he tried to do in his life like i excelled at like before before i was 10 years old right but he was behind that in some way right i mean he gave you those he pushed you into those opportunities uh sure
Guest:you know yeah sure but I don't understand like also he did the negotiation kind of stuff but it was also kind of like I was just good at I was a better dancer than I was I was a better actor than he was I was a better like I was just better and more successful at those things but how did that dislike manifest itself when you're eight years old I mean how do you feel that you know going through all that he was a bad man
Guest:Honestly, he was a bad man.
Guest:He was abusive physically and mentally.
Guest:I can show you all my scars if you want to, but he was a bad dude kind of thing.
Guest:Just to you?
Guest:No, across the board.
Guest:I started catching the brunt of it after a while because
Guest:You were there with him all the time.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:God bless the rest of my family.
Guest:They would always get these respites whenever I was off doing a gig.
Guest:You know, they get three months off from him, you know, and it would be me locked in, but better me than somebody else.
Guest:That's what I always say.
Marc:And it would just be like, you know, well, obviously there's no real provoking, but I mean, just out of nowhere kind of shit, or there was a reason for it.
Marc:I know you feel that was jealousy, but what would... Well, I don't necessarily feel that way.
Guest:This is more of a retrospective kind of... No, no.
Guest:I mean, it makes sense.
Guest:Trying to figure it out kind of thing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, what have you figured out?
Guest:That part of it.
Guest:Yeah, I think it was some of that kind of thing.
Guest:And also, honestly, he was just a bad dude.
Guest:Like, that's the thing.
Guest:He was a bad, abusive man, like, regardless.
Guest:To your mother, too?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Was he a boozy guy?
Guest:He could be, yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He liked his St.
Guest:Paulie girls.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Old-style upscale beer.
Marc:yeah exactly what a fancy pants yeah so buys a piece of work yeah yeah so so so after richie rich and after their separation you could you know at least legally and and as an adult not have to deal with him anymore yeah yeah and that was what you did
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And I was, you know, I knew I had an inheritance coming.
Guest:You know, it was- Your money.
Guest:My money.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Some kid worked really, really hard and I'm inheriting all of his money kind of thing.
Marc:But that was interesting because they kind of bent the law.
Marc:You set a precedent, right?
Marc:Something happened.
Guest:I didn't necessarily get emancipated, but I pretty much took their names off my money as guardianship.
Marc:The judge ruled that way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because, yeah, there's the Jackie Coogan laws where X amount has to be put in a trust until you're 18.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That kind of stuff.
Marc:But they were doing that anyways, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's the law.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But their names were on it.
Guest:And so I was able to remove their names from it and get like a family friend on top of it.
Guest:Just... And...
Guest:Because they were going at each other with your money.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, no, not really.
Guest:They had their own money because they were my managers.
Guest:They split 15%.
Guest:So they were battling with their 7.5%.
Guest:They drained their coffers doing that stupid shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it was just when it came to that other like kind of just, you know, a certain amount that was liquid that technically had his name on it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, just taking his name off of it.
Guest:And I also took my mom's name off of it just so like it's a clean break.
Guest:Good.
Guest:So, you know, yeah.
Guest:So, you know, if I was going to be stupid, I was going to try to be smart about being stupid.
Guest:That's all.
Marc:And you get along with your mom.
Marc:Yeah, I do.
Marc:That relationship was always okay?
Guest:Yeah, that was always good.
Marc:And she knew your dad was a monster.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, but at the same time, you know, I've had this discussion with her where it's kind of like, oh, if you knew he was such a bad guy, like, you know, why'd you stick around the whole time kind of thing?
Guest:Like, you know what I mean?
Guest:Like, yeah, like, you know, you go through that portion of your life where, like, you know, you sort of kind of just like, I started assessing some blame onto her a little bit.
Marc:Well, sure.
Marc:Yeah, because, you know, how do you, it's hard to understand codependency.
Guest:Yeah, it's, you know, it's easy for her to be a good guy in a situation like that, you know, compared to, you know, just a bad dude kind of thing.
Guest:So...
Guest:At the same time, I have nothing but love for my mother.
Guest:And your old man has not reached out to you?
Guest:No, not really.
Guest:I mean, he kind of has and all that stuff.
Guest:I'm not really receptive to it.
Guest:Yeah, no, I get that.
Guest:Yeah, it's not like I've shut that door completely or anything like that.
Marc:Do you have a resolve in your heart, though?
Guest:Yes, no, honestly, I have forgiveness in my heart.
Marc:You do?
Guest:Yeah, no, I've made amends with that whole kind of thing.
Guest:Oh yeah, that's good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:At the same time, I don't think he's there, so that's why I don't want to really go there with him a little bit.
Guest:You think he'd worm back into you somehow?
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Guest:He's a feeble old man now.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:He's not this big, strong guy.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:He's a feeble old man now.
Guest:So it wouldn't be about that.
Guest:No, it'd just be... I don't think he's willing to say the things he should say kind of thing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Appropriately.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:He didn't have it in him to do it.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:To self-involve.
Guest:And honestly, and this is actually a judgment, I guess.
Guest:I don't think he deserves it.
Guest:sure you know that kind of thing yeah you know you know if you've made your peace you don't have to if he's not willing to do his correctly or at all exactly you know what i mean and you don't owe him his peace and you know exactly and like you know like i said it is a judgment because it's like maybe he is and i'm not giving him that opportunity like you know i mean like yeah so you know you know but at the same time like oh you know i i live a very cool fun fruitful life and like you know and and that's kind of despite him
Guest:yeah sure you know yeah and I you know I've come out the other end of that you know that that that rinse cycle like you know like being this person and you know it's and it was despite him sure you know I've done like three movies in the last like like 12 15 years like no I mean if I really wanted to pursue like if I really wanted to show him I would be pursuing a career in Hollywood kind of thing and kind of go look I can do this without you kind of thing
Guest:It's like, no, no, I'm doing it despite him.
Guest:Oh, despite, despite.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Guest:I'm living my life.
Guest:Yeah, I had it wrong.
Guest:Despite, despite.
Marc:I'm full of spite, not you.
Marc:I was projecting, I'm sorry.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:But that eight years where you're getting high and drinking and getting laid and going to high school, did you ever, was there a point where you had some sort of breakdown with this shit?
Marc:Did you hit a wall once you got space?
Guest:No, not really.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:No, actually, it was liberating.
Guest:That's really what it was.
Guest:I just got to do all the things that I wanted to do, and I got to start molding myself into the person I wanted to be.
Guest:Because I had no real...
Guest:And those are very formative years also.
Guest:When you were younger?
Marc:You mean when you were a kid?
Guest:When you were a teenager.
Guest:Oh, when you were a teenager.
Guest:Sure, yeah.
Guest:Those things are very informative about who you're going to become.
Marc:And you had that kid hanging over you.
Marc:The kid you were on the movies.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:People walking up to you holding their face.
Guest:That's always there.
Guest:That's always there, man.
Guest:It still happens.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah, it's just... Especially now, it's a Christmas movie, right?
Guest:You have no idea.
Guest:It is the season, man.
Guest:I get...
Guest:I get it worse in November, December.
Guest:It's like, oh, I'm like TNT, just like on a repeat kind of thing.
Guest:This is my time of year where I really get it.
Marc:And you're all queen shaven, so you look like him again.
Guest:I know, right?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:I'm not all fuzzy, it's underground guy.
Marc:You're out from underground.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:But when you started acting again, I mean, Party Monster, you got good reviews.
Marc:The movie was, you know, liked.
Marc:It was a good movie.
Guest:It's a cult movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a neat cult movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think Seth Green's freaking fantastic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I feel like I lost the contest.
Guest:Like, you know, you try to steal a scene.
Guest:He kept on stealing every scene.
Guest:I'm like, dang, he's just so freaking good.
Guest:I'm very weird about watching myself kind of thing.
Guest:But honestly, that was a blast.
Guest:That was the first film I'd done in eight years.
Guest:I did some theater in London for about a year or so leading up to that.
Guest:What'd you do?
Guest:It was a show called Madame Melville.
Guest:Did it in the West End for eight months or whatever.
Guest:And then I did it in New York for- You like to do it in the theater still?
Guest:Yeah, I don't love it.
Guest:It's, yeah, it's my forum kind of thing.
Guest:Do you still do it?
Guest:It's been a while.
Guest:It's been a while.
Guest:Look, I don't really pursue acting.
Guest:I haven't done, you know, I just did Seth.
Guest:He just directed a movie called Changeland.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was the first gig I had done in like 10 years acting wise.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Besides a little commercial in the UK here and there, like a Japanese thing or something like that.
Guest:But a real kind of acting gig.
Guest:I just don't pursue it.
Guest:I don't really do it.
Guest:I mean, I like it.
Guest:I enjoy it.
Guest:What was the part in the Seth Green movie?
Guest:This tour guide kind of dude.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, pretty much.
Guest:I play almost like this drunkard tour boat captain kind of thing.
Guest:It was fun.
Guest:My preparation for it was watching Young Guns 1 and 2 and watching Emilio Estevez and Arthur.
Guest:I watched Arthur.
Guest:so how's that hold up it's fantastic i just showed it to my girlfriend like like two three days ago and like like yeah like like we both wept when gilgood dies you know yeah when when hobson dies like it's yeah it's i'm a i grew up with that movie like that movie is actually like my first movie memory oh really yeah yeah and so i've probably watched it three times this week with that laugh that goofy oh just so good more goofy laugh
Marc:oh and kill good's so good isn't lisa minnelli yeah she's so good in it like give me a cop where's the cop what's your name chester so you don't really chase in the acting you like doing it you know you you've got freedom to do what you want obviously and now you're going to do a podcast but what what and you're enjoying your life but what do you want to do
Guest:i mean honestly like uh you know i i live well i drink well right i smoke well you know i mean i i mean that's kind of what i want so you're kind of okay you know uh um i i my life affords me the opportunities to also do other things also so like i i can paint and i can show yeah you know i don't have a hard time finding a show for that you know i can do a parody pizza band for a while what was that tour is the pizza underground yeah do you know this you know
Marc:I did a little reading on it.
Marc:What was it exactly?
Marc:Was it a genuine musician?
Guest:I mean, there were some, but no, not really.
Marc:Do you sing or play an instrument?
Guest:I played the maracas.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:And yeah, it was Velvet Underground songs just done about pizza.
Guest:That's really what it was.
Guest:It's that street.
Marc:No, it's one of those things where- Velvet Underground parody band.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And it's one of those things where it's a joke and you laugh.
Guest:And then we keep on repeating the same joke so it gets unfunny and it comes back around again.
Guest:Then it becomes hysterical.
Marc:It's a joke for a very small audience.
Guest:Take a bite of the wild slice.
Guest:That's not even a Velvet Underground song.
Guest:Yeah, no, I know.
Guest:It's a Lou Reed song.
Guest:Lou Reed, and we have Lou Reed, and we also do Nico's solo kind of things, too.
Guest:We never found a John Cale song to cover, but... Oh, right.
Guest:But, no, we were all actually genuine fans of the band.
Guest:That was the whole thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, yeah, so we do, like, all the pizza parties, you know, instead of... So, wait, how long did that last?
Guest:I'll Be Your Mirrors, I'm Little Caesar.
Guest:About a... Longer than it should have.
Guest:About a year and a half.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Honestly, it was a lark that we did.
Guest:We did, like, an open mic thing, and then we did another thing, and then we recorded something in my living room.
Guest:Max, Kansas City.
Yeah.
Guest:You're with me on that.
Guest:And then just put it online and then kind of like forgot about it kind of thing.
Guest:My friend just put it on Bandcamp.
Guest:And then a month later, I woke up with like 40 calls and text messages.
Guest:And I thought someone died.
Guest:I really did.
Guest:And all of them were like, are you in a pizza band kind of thing?
Guest:And it blew up.
Guest:And then we got hired for like a show.
Guest:And we only had eight minutes of material.
Guest:It was like one eight-minute medley.
Guest:That's all we had.
Guest:Because you can't do whole songs this way.
Guest:sure and uh so we went to like you know they booked us at this place of babies all right and uh we met at the bar down the street and then when we turned the corner and this is the dead of winter this is like zero degrees outside new york there's a line four people wide around the block and we're like whoa what the fuck
Guest:Yeah, it was a very, you know, we kind of hit that hipster strike zone a little bit.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:The Brooklyn hipsters freaking loved it kind of thing.
Guest:And so then next thing you know, we expand our repertoire and we did a couple tours.
Guest:We toured like three countries, like that kind of thing.
Guest:And why did it end?
Guest:Honestly, because I was a little tired, to be completely honest.
Guest:Did people like it out there?
Guest:No, people loved it.
Guest:We always sold well.
Guest:I mean, we always sold out.
Guest:Who else was in the band?
Guest:It was Dina Vollmer, Austin Killam, Matt Colburn, and Phoebe Kreutz.
Guest:And there's a couple of people that are actually legitimate musicians on it.
Guest:Also, Toby Goodshank kind of joined us.
Guest:It really was.
Guest:Honestly, it was an out-of-tune guitar in maracas and tambourines.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And eventually, we had some keys to it.
Guest:We had a bass kind of thing.
Guest:We added some stuff to it.
Guest:But at the same time, we were a joke parody band.
Guest:I didn't want people walking away going, that was a good show.
Guest:I wanted people walking away and going, I had a lot of fun.
Marc:Right.
Guest:That's what it was.
Marc:Do you have any serious music aspirations?
Guest:No, not really.
Guest:I mean, I have some ideas for some things, but nothing I kind of pursue.
Guest:I'm very casual about everything I pursue.
Guest:But at the same time, now I actually have a great back catalog of just stuff.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I have a couple of just like, yeah, just art shows that are kind of just sitting around my apartment.
Guest:Now I have a couple of books that are really just sitting around there and kind of collecting dust that kind of just need the once over kind of thing.
Guest:But that's the thing.
Guest:I treat myself like a retired person.
Guest:Everything I do is a hobby now.
Marc:And you're okay with it.
Marc:You like it.
Marc:You feel like you've accomplished what you need to accomplish publicly.
Guest:I mean, sure.
Guest:I never felt a need kind of thing.
Guest:Even when I was doing this stuff when I was a kid, I never felt the need to do that kind of thing.
Guest:I just kind of just did it, and I was good at it.
Guest:I did enjoy it for a long time, but it was also kind of just- You feel full?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:No, honestly, I live a very rich, full, silly life.
Guest:I wouldn't have it any other way, man.
Marc:What's this podcast you're doing?
Guest:So it's called Buddy Ears.
Guest:It's with my buddy, Matt Cohen.
Guest:And yeah, it really is kind of... It's conversational.
Guest:Occasionally we have guests on, but that's kind of just here and there, kind of a smattering.
Guest:And it's kind of, I guess, maybe called a hybrid.
Guest:But yeah, no, it's just...
Guest:It's just a bunch of dudes like we we have a really good, you know Repartee and so it's one of those things where I just listened back to like, you know Like one of the two other episodes that we just did I think that's the kind of room.
Guest:I'd want to hang out in sure.
Guest:It's that kind of thing It's just a bunch of dudes kind of like yeah, just kind of just chatting.
Guest:Where do you record it here?
Guest:Both here in LA and in New York.
Guest:Not in Paris?
Guest:Not in Paris.
Guest:That would start becoming too pricey.
Guest:And yeah, we kind of switch off every month kind of thing.
Marc:Who comes where?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:So you're all good.
Marc:There's nothing you're not doing that you want to do.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:And if I wanted to do it, I'd be doing it.
Guest:Do you get asked to do parts?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah, I do.
Guest:I got approached.
Guest:And I do give some of the proper weight.
Guest:But for the most part, I like the work.
Guest:What I miss about acting is the summer camp quality.
Guest:I mean, I love doing the work, too.
Guest:Don't get me wrong.
Guest:But also, I miss the summer camp.
Guest:I was hanging out with people.
Guest:hanging out with people and like you know oh you know don't worry we're gonna stay in touch forever kind of thing exactly uh exactly uh um you know i like that i like the camaraderie and all that like you know that that's a part that i miss the most yeah like i don't miss the work i love the work and i think i'm good at it actually like i think i've actually gotten better at it as you know as i age did you ever train at all
Guest:For acting?
Guest:Not for acting, no.
Guest:It really was just... It was charisma and timing, really, was what it was.
Guest:I know how it is.
Guest:It's all you need, man.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Talent helps.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:But timing is also just real timing and also comedic timing.
Guest:I always had good timing.
Guest:All right, buddy.
Guest:Timing.
Guest:It's close.
Guest:Yeah, you jumped it, but it's good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was good talking to you, man.
Guest:Good talking to you too, man.
Guest:You feel good about it?
Guest:No, actually erase the whole thing.
Guest:Let's start over.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Fuck.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Talk to you later.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Talk to you later, man.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:See, he's doing all right, that Macaulay Culkin.
Marc:He's all right, living in France, painting, doing whatever the fuck he wants.
Marc:It's not a bad gig.
Marc:He does have that new podcast called Bunny Ears.
Marc:You can get that wherever you get podcasts.
Marc:I'm going to sign out here because they're sandblasting my house.
Marc:And it's just the way it is today, folks, just the way it is.
Marc:Boomer lives!
Boomer lives!
you