Episode 862 - John Dwyer
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuck nicks what's happening my name is mark maron this is my podcast welcome to it today on the show i talked to uh john dwyer john dwyer is the uh
Marc:Front man, the man, sometimes the only guy.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It's a complicated thing with John Dwyer.
Marc:His band, The OCs, puts out records as OCs, sometimes as OCs, spelled O-C-S.
Marc:He's been in other bands.
Marc:He's got his own label, but he's the real deal, man.
Marc:That new OCs record, or is it the OCs?
Marc:OCs, O-C-S, that goes way back.
Marc:And then the OCs is a good bulk of the records.
Marc:Like the last two, last year, Weird Exits and Odd Entrances, both great, were out as the OCs.
Marc:And now he just released another one.
Marc:In August by just OCs.
Marc:So, yeah.
Marc:And his label is Castle Face Records.
Marc:It doesn't matter.
Marc:It doesn't matter because it's all pretty interesting stuff.
Marc:It's all good.
Marc:The last couple of records are great.
Marc:They're all good.
Marc:There's been a lot of people in and out of his bands back in the day, back in San Francisco, going way back, going way back.
Marc:I think they were... We'll talk about it all.
Marc:There was a lot of different names, but the OCs is really what John is known for.
Marc:Ty Siegel's a big fan.
Marc:That Bay Area crew.
Marc:Sarah the Painter was back in the SF back in the day when they were coming on the Dwyer experience.
Marc:He's an event man.
Marc:He's a marking post of something original.
Marc:So I talked to him today.
Marc:That was a hell of an intro.
Marc:I don't usually do...
Marc:That big an intro.
Marc:Seattle, can I tell you to please come on out to Third Place Records in Seward Park this Saturday, November 11th at 7 p.m.
Marc:I'll be there with Brendan signing copies of Waiting for the Punch, Words to Live By from the WTF podcast.
Marc:It's our last book event of the year, so we hope to see you all in Seattle, WTFers.
Marc:We hope to see you all there.
Marc:Also, I have a correction to make, like I'm really hung up on this shit.
Marc:But the last episode, those of you who listened to me ramble on in the beginning about fried scallops and cioppino at a place that may be called Joe's, I was mistaken.
Marc:I was mistaken, and I've been there a lot.
Marc:It's called Jack's Fish Spot in Pike Place Market behind a fish cellar.
Marc:So that's that.
Marc:Jax, I've corrected myself.
Marc:I don't know if I'll get there, though.
Marc:I got one day, man.
Marc:I got one day in Seattle that I'm back at it.
Marc:I could stay longer, really, because it seems that I'm not in this episode of GLOW.
Marc:Seems like I got a few days off, but I got some things going on.
Marc:It's a sad day around here, man.
Marc:today like you know things are going all right the world is you know still ending uh but buster's gone again buster ran out the door last night and i don't know what to do you know i mean i can just walk around and call his name so much but i always get the feeling that he's gone for good anytime a cat gets out i'm sure it's over
Marc:But it's been 24 hours.
Marc:No, it hasn't.
Marc:It hasn't, actually.
Marc:Maybe he'll come back.
Marc:All he can do is wait.
Marc:Call out his name.
Marc:Buster Kitten.
Marc:But I don't know what the fuck to do, man.
Marc:You know, you have these cats.
Marc:My old guys, they don't even try to get out anymore.
Marc:And I was looking at something.
Marc:I had some shit in the driveway.
Marc:I held the door open just a little too long.
Marc:And I just saw him, you know, just worm by and wander out.
Marc:And it was too late.
Marc:So, fuck.
Marc:I just have to accept that if that's the life he wants or if he got eaten, that's... What can I do?
Marc:I'll go out and look around.
Marc:I'll keep calling his name and hopefully he'll come back.
Marc:So fucking sad, man.
Marc:I mean, you know, there are sadder things, but just, you know, there's just things you don't need.
Marc:I don't need my cat to be gone.
Marc:I don't need one of my cats to disappear.
Marc:Just fucking stinks.
Marc:I've had a lot of them go.
Marc:LaFonda and Monkey are fine.
Marc:Big head with the big balls.
Marc:He's around.
Marc:He might have chased Buster off.
Marc:Scaredy cat.
Marc:He's been around.
Marc:I've been feeding him sometimes twice a day.
Marc:I don't know if he scared Buster off.
Marc:Buster's a greenhorn out there.
Marc:He doesn't have chops.
Marc:He doesn't have the wild chops.
Marc:He's got no game out there.
Marc:Maybe they'll all come back, but I got him inside when he was about two months old.
Marc:So I don't know what he's capable of.
Marc:He's a smart fucker.
Marc:Not smart enough to, you know, outrun a pack of coyotes.
Marc:But I don't know.
Marc:Maybe it's innate.
Marc:Maybe he can handle himself.
Marc:I always think the worst.
Marc:I hope he comes back.
Marc:Buster!
Marc:Buster!
Marc:The last time he got out, I could hear him squeal.
Marc:He has a weird squeal.
Marc:Buster!
Marc:Buster!
Marc:fucking sad so what's happening i'm going to uh yeah we're going up to seattle seattle i love seattle i i used to like it even more i used to just have fantasies about keep going north just keep going north north of seattle on upward out into the islands out into the water
Marc:Get away.
Marc:Go to where it's just poetry all the time and dampness and creeping clouds and darkness and beautiful, brisk water with sea animals.
Marc:Yeah, freedom, man.
Marc:My house is falling down.
Marc:It's falling apart.
Marc:I got to make a decision, man.
Marc:I got to get out before the whole thing crumbles or do something.
Marc:It's a tiny house.
Marc:I know this garage is mythic.
Marc:I know this garage is where everything turned around and my life changed and it's got its own sort of, you know, reputation.
Marc:But I think we got to accept that maybe I'm the component.
Marc:Is it possible that I'm the component that makes it good, not necessarily the structure that I'm in?
Marc:Is that possible?
Marc:Is it?
Marc:I don't know, man.
Marc:I guess I wish I had more to say.
Marc:I think I'm a little broken up about the cat.
Marc:I tried to pretend.
Marc:I pretend to be a tough guy.
Marc:I pretend like I can just dismiss it like, hey, man, you know, this is just the way it goes.
Marc:Sometimes these cats, they hang out.
Marc:Sometimes they don't.
Marc:But I was getting to like that guy.
Marc:You guys have been through this with me once already.
Marc:But I was getting used to that guy.
Marc:I liked him.
Marc:And if he doesn't come back, I'll be sad.
Marc:So I'll just have to see if he comes back.
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:You just don't need added sadness in this day and age.
Marc:So I think we can get on with John Dwyer now.
Marc:Dwyer has a new album, Out Memories of a Cutoff Head.
Marc:It's coming out November 17th under the band name OCS.
Marc:OCs.
Marc:He released an album under the band name OCs earlier this year called Ork.
Marc:He releases records.
Marc:Him and Ty Siegel are like the record releasing Mad Men.
Marc:They're very similar in that way.
Marc:And I don't know.
Marc:I would think that Dwyer is Ty's mentor to some degree.
Marc:That's how I felt it.
Marc:That's how I see it.
Marc:They both live down the street from me.
Marc:And when I listen to all of Dwyer's stuff, the evolution of it, it's good, man.
Marc:It's good.
Marc:And he's a mile-a-minute dude.
Marc:Active brain.
Marc:For those of you who don't like when I talk, this one's for you.
Marc:For those of you who like when I talk, that's all right.
Marc:Just ride it out.
Marc:Dwyer's got a lot to say.
Marc:He goes.
Marc:It's me and John Dwyer.
Marc:I just got a record, Jeremy Spencer and the Children.
Marc:Do you know that record?
Marc:Jeremy Spencer was the other guitar player in the first version of Fleetwood Mac.
Marc:He was the Elmore James freak, right?
Marc:Yeah, right.
Marc:And this record, I just saw it yesterday over Permanent, and I'm like, what the fuck is this?
Marc:Permanent, man.
Marc:It's like going to a crack cocaine store.
Marc:And it turns out it's this record that he did in 1972 after he joined the Children of God cult.
Marc:So it's Jeremy Spencer, that guitar player who played with Peter Green and these people from the cult.
Guest:They're the backing band.
Guest:You gotta give it to old school cults as they always had a band.
Guest:That's a problem.
Guest:I don't feel like a lot of these cults nowadays are actually getting out there with their rock.
Guest:some more music.
Guest:I would love to see a cult doing like electronic music now.
Guest:At least let's upgrade.
Guest:An electronic cult.
Guest:Yeah, just like techno cult or something.
Marc:I guess you're right.
Marc:I think in the 60s that the music was so integrated into the message of transcendence that it was almost necessary.
Guest:Yeah, we don't have that so much.
Marc:I don't think so anymore.
Marc:The entryway was the music.
Guest:It's hard to imagine Katy Perry playing a polygamist cult scenario.
Marc:It doesn't work.
Guest:That's like an immediate satisfaction kind of music.
Marc:It's all about the bread.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:I'm sure she's a nice lady.
Marc:I don't know her.
Marc:Have you had her on?
Marc:No, I have not.
Marc:I don't know Katy Perry.
Marc:I don't know anything about her.
Marc:I have been listening to Adele Records and Lorde Records.
Guest:They're both really interesting.
Marc:They are, right?
Guest:But they're the exception to the rule, I would say.
Marc:I guess so.
Guest:I remember when I heard Lorde, I was like, I'm fucking surprised I like this.
Guest:Because somebody was like, you haven't heard it?
Guest:I was like, no.
Guest:And they played for me.
Guest:And I was like, and I don't like shit anymore.
Guest:I'm like, I'm just, I mean, when I see something I like, I really like it.
Guest:So it's always a pleasure to see a band I don't know and be like, fuck, finally.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I've been just doing it for so long.
Guest:I see so much music that when I hear something like that, that's actually quite popular.
Guest:I surprise myself because I'm like, oh, an old man actually can like this music.
Guest:You know, like, it's cool.
Guest:I can dig it.
Marc:She goes pretty deep, I think.
Marc:She's just interesting.
Marc:That's the bottom line.
Marc:It's not just the same old, same old.
Marc:And that's important.
Guest:It goes a long way for me to have somebody being innovative or like... Or odd.
Guest:Or like even earnest.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:She was kind of dorky right out of the gate.
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know?
Marc:So, I don't, like, I'm trying to figure out where, like, I know exactly how I got turned on to you.
Marc:Like, somehow or another, being the old man that I am, I missed some chunk of music, you know, somewhere between, like, 1998 and, you know, three years ago.
Guest:It was kind of a terrible time.
Marc:But you were very prolific during that time.
Marc:Hey, dude, I don't have a job.
Marc:And then I go down to someone turned me on to Ty Siegel.
Marc:And I guess it was Lance when Ty was still working up at the old permanent.
Marc:And then people started mentioning your name.
Marc:And then I think the album I came in on was the one with all the eyes and teeth on the cover.
Guest:Floating Coffin.
Marc:Yeah, Floating Coffin.
Marc:So that's where I start with you.
Marc:And then not unlike a lot of musicians I talk to, I try to do a little research.
Marc:And I'm like, oh, fuck.
Marc:It's a lot.
Marc:There's like 100 other records.
Guest:Yeah, I apologize.
Marc:No, I apologize.
Guest:I am personally one of those people that people are like, how many records have you used?
Guest:And then they're like, jeez, that's a whole lot of salary for me to spend on records.
Marc:But then you sent me a lot of good records.
Guest:I encourage them to steal it off the internet.
Guest:If it's too much, I'm like, just go to Pirate Bay.
Guest:It's there.
Guest:But where'd you grow up?
Guest:I grew up in Rhode Island.
Guest:Really?
Guest:What part?
Guest:I was born in Riverside, Rhode Island, which is just kind of like a little trashy waterfront community.
Guest:It's kind of awesome.
Guest:I have a lot of early memories from there.
Guest:And then my mom moved over to Rumford.
Guest:We lived on this river, the 10-mile river over there.
Guest:And then I moved to North Providence, and that's where I started getting into music.
Guest:I saw people from RISD.
Guest:Because I was there.
Marc:I started doing stand-up on the road, doing one-nighters around that area.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I did, yeah, Periwinkles in Providence.
Marc:Periwinkles.
Marc:Oh, wait.
Marc:In Davos Square.
Guest:Fucking A. Yeah, I remember that joint.
Guest:See, that was one of those spots when I was a kid I would ride by and I'd be like, what goes on in there?
Guest:Is it a strip club?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I never got to go to any comedy until I was just about to move out to San Francisco.
Guest:So I was probably like 18, 19 when I started.
Marc:How old are you now?
Marc:I'm 42.
Marc:All right, so I'm 53.
Marc:They stole my car in Providence.
Guest:Yeah, that sounds about right.
Marc:Yeah, and I did shows in like Melody, Cranston, Rhode Island.
Guest:Oh, Cranston.
Marc:The Cranston Bowl, dude.
Guest:I believe that's where the bouffant was born.
Guest:There's like certain hairstyles that like the women there still are rocking.
Marc:I did a show at the Cranston Bowl.
Guest:I remember it.
Guest:A bowling alley in Cranston.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Jesus Christ.
Guest:Yeah, that's pretty hardcore.
Marc:It's like doing a Klan rally or something.
Guest:You're like, I've been all the way to the bottom.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Well, they'd book out these one-nighters.
Marc:So somebody just booked the joint.
Marc:Well, there were subcontractors.
Marc:That was the way the business worked there.
Marc:You'd work with these companies that would book one-nighters at these places that wanted to do a comedy night.
Marc:So you'd just show up.
Marc:That's awesome.
Guest:Comedy's good like that, though.
Guest:You guys can set up shop real quick.
Marc:And you know what?
Guest:People like to have, oh, I'm sure it's got to be a bruiser, too, but if you can get somebody laughing, then you got them for the night, you know what I mean?
Marc:Yeah, if you hold them, right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But the reason I remember Cranston is there was sort of a monumental horror show.
Marc:I used to do this joke about it.
Guest:Cranston was a rough town.
Marc:But no, they were fine, it was packed, and the first night was always good when they'd do a comedy night, because everyone in town would come, but I did a joke about a plane crash, and some woman screamed, you know, don't talk about plane crashes.
Guest:That, to me, that's like my mom right there.
Guest:Like, she will be the person, like, I'll be sitting next to her, and she'll just yell out, and I'll be like, Jesus, mom.
Guest:She'll say exactly.
Marc:Yeah, but I knew exactly what it was, because why would it be that?
Marc:Like, she had lost somebody in a plane crash, so I had to deal with that.
Marc:Did you just lose somebody?
Marc:No, no.
Marc:Yes, she did.
Guest:Oh, she did, she did, yeah.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:You didn't.
Marc:No, but like she didn't.
Marc:It was one of those moments where I was like.
Guest:That must happen all the time as a fucking comedian.
Marc:Everybody in the audience.
Guest:What are the odds, dude?
Guest:My son's deaf.
Marc:No, no, I mean.
Marc:A plane crash is pretty extreme.
Marc:Yeah, I thought I had, you know, what are the odds?
Marc:Yeah, and I just, it was a horrible moment of silence.
Marc:You dug your way out of it?
Marc:Well, I just said, all right, I'll just do my cancer stuff now.
Guest:Nobody has cancer, thank God.
Guest:Well, cancer's a little more accessible.
Marc:It's like my whole family died of cancer.
Marc:A little more accessible.
Marc:Everybody knows it.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:So you're in Providence.
Marc:What kind of life do you live in?
Marc:Your dad's not around?
Marc:My dad is up in Massachusetts.
Guest:My mom had me when she was 18.
Guest:My dad was much older, so they didn't last long, but they're cool.
Guest:I don't think they- Where in Massachusetts?
Guest:He lives in Rehoboth, which is right on the border of Rhode Island.
Guest:Rhode Island's like 40 square miles or something.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So you're a real New England guy, really?
Guest:Yeah, I grew up full New England.
Guest:Lobster rolls, clam bakes.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, stuffies, all that shit.
Guest:Cawhogs.
Guest:I mean, like Family Guy, the cartoon is basically based on my town, and there's all these things, little bits in there, but I'm like, I know what that is, I know what that is.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:You know, I think that dude probably went to school out there or something.
Marc:Jimmy's, Fraps.
Guest:yeah it was uh new york system weenies where uh this guy like builds hot dogs on like it'll be like right next to his armpit when he's serving you but people you know it's funny i bring bands through there like occasionally brought these like aussies uh this band total control through there through rhode island recently no this was years ago but it was like showing them little bits of things like you guys gotta try these hot dogs and then be like oh before you moved out you mean no this was this was after i'd already lived in san francisco but like watching like australians eat like the thing from prom yeah i've never had anything like this sure
Marc:You can have that experience when you go to Australia.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Fight a shark.
Marc:So what was the scene?
Marc:So I'm trying to picture what year it would be when you're sort of coming alive.
Guest:I moved in like 98, so it was probably like 96-ish.
Marc:And the bands coming through from RISD were like who?
Guest:At the time, the bands that when I was young, the first bands I was seeing that were really good out of Providence were like Lightning Bolt, who have been around for fucking ages.
Guest:There was that band.
Guest:I mean, there were a lot of bands.
Guest:There were the Leo brothers, like Ted Leo.
Guest:Ted, yeah.
Guest:And the pharmacist.
Guest:His brother Danny Leo was going to school there, so I lived above Danny in a warehouse.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, he's great.
Guest:He does bands still.
Guest:It was like Arab on Radar, and there was a band called Dung Beetle really early on.
Guest:I can't remember Dung Beetle.
Guest:Drop Dead.
Guest:He's from Warwick, Rhode Island.
Guest:One of the biggest grindcore, hardcore, political punk bands.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I grew up watching these guys at All Ages shows when I was a kid.
Marc:All Ages shows.
Marc:I hear a lot about those.
Marc:Six Figure Satellite.
Marc:Thank God for All Ages shows.
Guest:Jesus Christ, I wouldn't be sitting there right now.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Marc:Spawned a whole generation of music guys.
Guest:I think I'd own a bank if it wasn't for going to see Phlegm at Club Babyhead when I was 16.
Guest:Club Babyhead?
Guest:Club Babyhead.
Guest:I can't believe you never performed there.
Guest:Every band I mentioned... It was after me.
Guest:I talked to that guy Bob Weston from Shellac.
Guest:I run into him sometimes at festivals.
Guest:He's a super nice guy.
Guest:And somehow Club Babyhead came up and he had the same reaction.
Guest:He's a little bit older than me, I think.
Guest:So I had gone to see a band he was in when I was a kid.
Guest:And it's the same reaction from everybody.
Guest:They're like, everybody goes, like, they'd forgotten about it.
Guest:And they're like, Club Babyhead.
Guest:Jesus Christ.
Guest:Like, everybody's just like, what a shithole.
Guest:I'm like, yeah, that was like, like a really small room.
Guest:Just like a black small box with like, like the bouncer, like, come on, come on, come on.
Guest:Just like shoving kids in.
Guest:And then they just punk rock.
Guest:But I saw, yeah, I saw like the cramps there on Halloween one year or right around Halloween.
Guest:Like,
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Yeah, tons of metal bands.
Guest:There was a place called The Living Room there.
Guest:I remember The Living Room.
Guest:The Living Room.
Guest:They probably might have had comedy.
Guest:They had like Flotsam and Jetsam.
Guest:And that was in Rhode Island?
Guest:I swear to God, I may have seen Slayer there really early on.
Guest:I remember the- In Providence, yeah.
Marc:In Providence.
Guest:Yeah, and then it's moved on to a bigger joint.
Guest:I don't know if it's still there or not, but-
Marc:Because when I was in Boston... It was real small.
Marc:Yeah, when I was in Boston, there was a lot going on musically, and now all those places are gone.
Marc:Like, there was that whole area down by the Causeway Street where there were lofts, and there were bands that played in the lofts.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then there was, like, the Ratskeller was still around, and Storyville, and TT to Bears.
Guest:TT, all those charts are gone now?
Marc:I don't know if TT's, or I think the Middle East is still there.
Marc:I don't know if TT's.
Guest:I remember just going to that joint, and I think I got in younger than I was supposed to be, so I was just standing in the corner the whole time.
Guest:I was really young there.
Marc:In Somerville, Central Square, I think.
Guest:Keep my head down, and I won't get kicked out of the show.
Guest:Yeah, it was like Sebedore, like Harry Pussy would be.
Marc:Sebedore.
Guest:They would never play in Providence, because it was just a small town.
Guest:I mean, a lot of bands came through Providence.
Guest:We'd end up in Boston all the time to see shows.
Guest:I actually was going back to play for the first time in like seven or eight years.
Guest:We're playing in Boston next month.
Guest:I'm already getting emails from dudes like, dude, you're fucking dead when you get hit.
Guest:Like Boston, I was just being like, I'm going to rip your face.
Guest:I'm like a little scared, you know?
Guest:Why?
Guest:I mean, it's in a loving way, but you know how Boston can be like, they're just like, you fucking queers, I'm going to come over there.
Marc:Very specific.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So wait, so you were like the first band.
Marc:So you're a kid in Providence and you're running around.
Marc:Providence is pretty heavy, but I don't know if it cleaned up since I hear it's nicer now.
Marc:More mob run when I was a kid.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Or at least back then more on its sleeve like that.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You'd see the mayor walking down this.
Guest:Buddy Cianci was the mayor when I was a kid who'd been like...
Guest:convicted put away like a double felon and then got out and they reelected him like promptly upon getting out of jail his daughter used to come to our house and like buy drugs off my neighbor like just such a small town I remember I never wanted her around because she would party so hard I was afraid she's gonna die at our house and I was like if she dies here we're dead like I was like this guy's terrifying and like and she was also a very commanding person so she'd be like I'm gonna party here and that was it you're like okay well I'm gonna leave yeah
Guest:I'd be like, at least I could be like, I wasn't there.
Marc:Is the mayor's kid?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's a horrible feeling when you're partying with somebody and you know they could die and you just don't want to be around for that.
Guest:She scared the shit out of me.
Guest:She was more friends with my roommate at the time.
Guest:And I remember being like, dude, this is not a good idea, man.
Guest:It's like having cops at a party.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:This feels like this could go either way.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you were already playing by then?
Guest:No, man.
Guest:I didn't really play.
Marc:You had roommates though?
Marc:You were out of the house?
Marc:You were out of your house?
Guest:I moved out of my mom's when I was 17.
Guest:My mom, I had a half-brother that she had with another man that was pretty disabled and things just got a little tumultuous.
Guest:She needed to take care of my brother, but she still does.
Guest:But we're cool.
Guest:Me and my mom are tight.
Marc:So you're out on your own at 17?
Marc:You're living the life?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just wanted to...
Guest:Basically, at the time, I just didn't want to go.
Guest:I got out of high school.
Guest:I didn't want to go to college.
Guest:I wanted to do drugs, and I was selling drugs.
Marc:What were the drugs?
Guest:Mostly just like acid and weed.
Guest:Your acid guy?
Guest:Yeah, I never got in.
Guest:I never liked drinking when I was a kid, which kept me out of harder drugs.
Guest:I always felt like the gateway for things like cocaine and stuff would always be like booze, because you'd be like, fuck it, why not?
Guest:You know, so I got lucky.
Guest:There was a big wave of heroin that came through Providence and I somehow got real lucky and didn't get into that.
Guest:I think I tried it twice and I was like, this isn't, I was like, I threw up.
Guest:Yeah, I didn't like puking.
Guest:And I remember being, I was always like more like, let's get this party pumping.
Guest:And then like everybody would be like nodded out.
Guest:I'm like, this shit sucks.
Marc:I'm the same way.
Marc:It was all cocaine, but booze, you know.
Marc:But acid, so you were like a... You're a comedian.
Marc:There's very... I can't think of any real junky comedians.
Marc:It doesn't seem like those two.
Marc:Oh, there's some.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:There's just the slower guys.
Marc:Oh, no.
Marc:Yeah, well, the guys, you know how it goes.
Marc:Those, you know, people learn how to work on that shit.
Marc:They mix and match, yeah.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Professionalisms.
Marc:Yeah, there was.
Marc:The real junkies know how to ride it out.
Marc:But there was a lot of comics that needed to do something before they got in.
Guest:It's a heavy set, man.
Marc:Yeah, well, Steve Kravitz used to get off stage and he'd wander around going like, was I on yet?
Marc:That's like the highlight of the night right there.
Marc:How was I?
Marc:Well, no, a lot of guys worked pretty, like Mitch was pretty, Mitch Hedberg was pretty heavy.
Guest:He was also the exception of the rule across the board.
Guest:Like that guy always looked at him and been like, this guy's on.
Marc:everything yeah totally golden it's weird when you listen to his shit like you know the simplicity of it and the sort of childlike uh innocence to the way he observed things you know heroin definitely you know quieted things down for that dude he was i mean i remember the first time i heard him there was nobody like that guy he was a total original and it holds up i mean like his life it's weird that's so rare that comic comedy holds up you know like music a lot of music it's totally true man like you hear like lenny bruce now and it i mean he's oh you gotta get a glossary
Guest:You've got to put him into context.
Guest:It was a totally different time.
Guest:His anger was from a different place.
Marc:Yeah, he'd mix Yiddish in and all the political references were what they were and show business.
Marc:You definitely need a glossary for Lennon.
Marc:Like footnotes for the comedy thing.
Marc:Fuck yeah, man.
Marc:If you listen to that Berklee concert, you're like, hold on.
Marc:Pause it.
Marc:Stop it again.
Marc:What the fuck is he talking about?
Marc:It's like the Ulysses of comedy.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:It's a lot like that.
Marc:So when did you start with, oh, let's talk about the acid though.
Marc:Like were you one of those guys that could do it three, four times a week?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, when we were selling, we were taking it quite a bit.
Guest:I remember- Was it good?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, we were getting blotter, mostly from Boston.
Guest:We would drive up and get off a guy that was supposedly friends with a chemist.
Guest:You know how it was with that kind of shit.
Guest:Was MIT involved?
Marc:Yeah, always.
Guest:Anytime I did a new drug, they'd be like, this is called DMT.
Guest:It's like a naturally occurring substance that you buy this guy created at a lab.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But the, you know, and then acid went away for so long and now it's making a comeback.
Guest:Is it?
Guest:Like I remember, yeah, I mean, maybe you're of that age now where nobody offers you acid anymore, but I remember thinking, I was like, yeah, good for you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember thinking like, man, I haven't heard about acid in a long time.
Guest:And like that day, some guy with like a tie dye and frizzy hair was like, do you want some doses?
Guest:And I was like, it's back.
Guest:It's back.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Here we go.
Guest:Turns out you can intake acid as a 40-year-old man and get away with it, but you just need a good, comfortable place.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But did you do it?
Guest:Yeah, I tried.
Guest:Me and my girlfriend took it in Hawaii.
Guest:It was really nice.
Guest:Hawaii, I mean, come on.
Guest:Sure, you're okay.
Marc:I'm beach in Kauai.
Marc:Yeah, I was like, what could go wrong?
Marc:Yeah, I wasn't watching TV.
Marc:Right, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, you weren't in a city.
Marc:I wasn't at a house party on Halloween or something.
Marc:Not a lot of people talking to you.
Marc:That could turn evil.
Marc:The only other person I saw, I'm pretty sure, was also on acid.
Guest:She was digging through the sand for like four hours, and I was like, she's cool.
Guest:We're fine.
Guest:She looked over and gave me a thumbs up.
Guest:I was like, there you go.
Guest:You stay over there.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Hope you find it.
Guest:Let me know if you find any money.
Guest:But what was it, like a 12-hour run?
Guest:No, you know, it's funny.
Guest:Like, I don't know if it's because I'm older, but my metabolism has definitely slowed down.
Guest:But I remember it being way more of an obligation.
Guest:But that was across the board with everything.
Guest:So, like, you know, I remember you take acid and, like, nine hours later, you'd be like, all right, all right, for fuck's sake.
Marc:Like, what is this, an all-day affair?
Marc:Let me down.
Guest:I'll never be able to work again.
Guest:You're having these thoughts like, if this is it, I'm fucked.
Guest:Like, I can never go home again.
Guest:And this was like, you know, it was...
Guest:speedier than I remembered, but it was really enjoyable.
Guest:My girlfriend had never taken it before and it was really funny to watch her.
Marc:What were the visuals?
Marc:Just trails and light?
Guest:It was actually pretty mild, but she was pretty hilarious.
Guest:It was like a really perfect day, too.
Guest:We'd had really nice days the whole trip.
Guest:It was the last day we were there and it was one of those pink sunsets.
Marc:What island?
Marc:We're on Kauai.
Marc:That's where I go.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:We just went down there.
Marc:Like, yeah.
Marc:Unfortunately, the last time I went down there was right after Trump was inaugurated.
Marc:So I was pretty sure we were going to be traveling back to just blood in the streets.
Guest:You know, Hawaii's been on the right side of history for this whole thing.
Guest:Those Hawaiians are fighting back, which makes me so sad because Hawaii's got that quality.
Guest:They're like, fuck that.
Marc:But because of my brain, if it just goes the wrong way, the idea of being on an island away from everything.
Guest:You have to stay there.
Marc:you have to stay there and what could go wrong on an island it could be worse you could be on i don't know i can't even think of a no no most islands are pretty good they're pretty good they're pretty it's beautiful that's where you go in a zombie apocalypse because you've got water on all four sides and you hope that the the people on the island don't turn zombie i think that's where my brain always goes right to that what if these people turn you just got to go in a clear house you go in with your machete and sort it out oh yeah how long did you stay down there
Guest:We go down there for maybe a week or so every year.
Marc:That's about it, right?
Marc:10 days is about it.
Guest:We try and mix it up with places.
Guest:We went to Cuba last year.
Guest:How was that?
Guest:Have you been down there?
Guest:No, man.
Guest:It's a trip, man.
Marc:Whenever I have to avoid American Airlines to get any place, it's sort of like, that's a step I don't want to deal with.
Marc:Do you have to go out of Mexico?
Guest:No, we actually did it legit early on.
Guest:Right when JetBlue did the thing?
Guest:Yeah, we didn't do JetBlue.
Guest:We did... I can't remember what airline it was now.
Guest:Probably like United.
Guest:It was like a bunch of airlines were like... Just for a vacation.
Guest:Real small, but it was like lots of Cubans were coming over and like going back with like... I swear to God, the plane on the ride back was full of HDTVs.
Guest:Like everybody had these like big flat screen... Like everybody was like, finally, we can go to the States and get a goddamn flat screen and bring it back home.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, it's crazy the things that, you know, the things that they have that they do really well there.
Guest:Yeah, the shit that we have that these people want is, like, shit that... Well, what was your experience there?
Guest:What did you feel?
Guest:It was really, really hot.
Guest:It's a beautiful place.
Guest:There are a few things about it that kind of blew my mind.
Guest:Like, one thing in particular, I was curious about how music would be there.
Guest:I know that, like, you know, jazz and Cuban music are very, you know, from there.
Guest:That's their pride.
Guest:And they obviously do it better than anyone else.
Marc:And cigars.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, cigars, yeah.
Guest:But the music is crazy.
Guest:I didn't hear not once any rock and roll or any rap or any radio music from here.
Guest:No contemporary pop, R&B, nothing.
Guest:Just human music and jazz.
Guest:Yeah, we saw one night an improv band play at a place called Zorro's that was in Havana.
Guest:They were actually amazing.
Guest:But it was crazy that none of that shit has permeated over there.
Guest:I've heard stories about like there being punks there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it seems like a place that'd be really ripe for that kind of shit to be like, hey guys, this is ACDC.
Guest:And they're like, holy shit.
Guest:Did you bring some stuff for me?
Marc:No, I didn't think to.
Guest:Actually, when I was originally going over there, I was like, maybe we could play a show there.
Guest:And when we left, I was like, we're not playing a show there.
Guest:I was like, that just doesn't feel right to me.
Guest:And I was like, I'll play anywhere by Cuba.
Guest:I was like, I don't know if they're really like, hey, I don't know if I think they'd probably fucking hate it.
Guest:Or they'd be like, what the fuck is this shit?
Marc:Yeah, I've been getting into jazz lately, and I haven't really hit the whole Cuban thing that much yet.
Marc:But it's definitely its own thing.
Marc:That groove is its own groove.
Guest:It's about seeing it live, too, I think.
Guest:There's a lot of people playing on the streets down there.
Guest:At night, there was just a parking lot that would have shows right now, and these guys would bring a PA in.
Guest:And it would just be neighborhood people hanging out.
Guest:I mean, there's like...
Guest:It's so hot there and people have so little that once night would fall, people just come out of their houses and sit on the street.
Guest:Havana in particular in Havana.
Guest:The city's got really crazy.
Guest:A building had collapsed a block down the street from where we were maybe a couple months before we were there.
Guest:and it was just still on the road.
Guest:And they just put like a couple of cones around it and then people start throwing their trash in it.
Guest:So this was just this massive trash heap with like- Rubble and trash.
Guest:And the other thing that kind of blew my mind about Cuba that was pretty awesome was there, I swear to God, there were pedigree homeless dogs.
Guest:So they'd be like a Beagle, like a hundred percent Beagle, just fucking filthy with like dreads, just being like, hey buddy, like do you have any snacks?
Marc:And I'd be like, that's- I deserve respect.
Guest:Yeah, or like a dachshund.
Guest:Like I was like, when do you see like a homeless dachshund?
Guest:Like that dog's out there fending for itself.
Guest:Why do you figure that was?
Guest:I have no idea.
Guest:I don't know if people brought dogs there back in the day, you know, but I mean, there's a lot of homeless animals there.
Guest:I mean, people just don't have a lot of money there, so they probably can't really afford it.
Guest:They're taking care of their family more than themselves.
Guest:But you stay kind of in like Casa Particular, which is people's homes.
Guest:So for like 20 bucks a night, you can stay in a nice joint.
Guest:They have like a bedroom set aside with an AC, and it's like a real grand old thing.
Marc:Did you rent an old car?
Guest:No.
Guest:Well, we took old cars from city to city because I loathe taking a bus.
Guest:It's like a weird affliction I have where I can't get on the bus.
Guest:Buses are a little sad.
Guest:You're either a bus person or not.
Guest:I can fly.
Guest:I can take a canoe.
Guest:But for some reason, the bus has always been like, no, I'm cool, man.
Marc:But we would take a cab.
Marc:Take a canoe down the coast.
Guest:It'd be like $100 to take a cab for like six hours.
Guest:You'd drive to the next city.
Guest:And then...
Guest:The two times we did that was a guy with like an old 50s car.
Guest:It was like totally refurbished.
Guest:Yeah, but their style and they're like manufacturing their own parts, you know, like they're they're not like outsourcing any of this shit.
Guest:They're making everything there.
Guest:They had to.
Guest:It's amazing.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:That's exactly the story of that whole place is they've the necessity has driven them to where they are, you know, like things they make and they're good at.
Guest:But that dude would drive us to the city.
Guest:And then he'd be like, what are you going back?
Guest:And we'd be like, oh, we're going back in like three days.
Guest:He'd be like, you know what, fuck it, I'll hang out.
Guest:And he's like, just call me in three days.
Guest:I'd be like, you're just going to hang out in this other city?
Guest:He's like, I got friends here.
Guest:Like, people are really chill there.
Marc:Don't keep the meter running.
Guest:Yeah, I'd be like, yeah, I'd be like, don't do it on my account.
Guest:We could just catch another car.
Guest:He's like, no, you know, my ex-girlfriend's here.
Guest:I'm cool.
Guest:So he was willing to wait for the hundred bucks.
Guest:Twice, two separate guys just came and they're like, ah, fuck it, I'll drive.
Marc:Lock in.
Guest:They would cab around that city for a few days.
Marc:Oh, I get it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Because like it kind of works everywhere.
Marc:So when you start like playing,
Marc:In Providence, what are you playing?
Marc:What clubs you mean?
Marc:No, like what music?
Marc:Oh, back in the day.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because it seems like you've moved through a lot of stuff, and it seems that to me the album, not the last one, but the one right before the last one, which one?
Marc:Weird Exits?
Marc:It seems like the production is a little cleaner, and you've kind of fully integrated everything you've worked towards into it.
Guest:Yeah, it's been a slow crawl to getting to this area of incorporating all the inspirations.
Marc:There's some noise, there's some psych, there's a little punk, but the lyrically it's different, the singing sounds cleaner.
Guest:Just moving ahead a little bit every time.
Marc:Right, but the production's different, right?
Marc:Am I wrong?
Guest:I think that was Chris Woodhouse's last record that he did with us.
Guest:And you've been with him
Guest:for years yeah me and him worked together for a long time and he uh he's he's just gotten i mean it's just like in anything somebody who's gifted will you know in a perfect scenario get better at what they do so he was getting better and better and better recording almost to a fault at points where like i would always be pushing back and be like this is dirty it up yeah it doesn't anybody keep like oh
Guest:I just didn't see him being bummed out.
Guest:I'd be like, come on, man.
Guest:I'm figuring this out.
Guest:Stop dragging me back.
Guest:You saved that for your pop project.
Guest:But at the same time, it made for clarification and things.
Guest:And also, I think it helps with us get a little bit out to a wider audience.
Guest:Because not everybody's into like...
Guest:Real like face banger.
Marc:Well, that's the weird thing.
Marc:Like, even if I talk to Ty and then I talk to, who else do you know?
Marc:Cronin I talk to.
Guest:I went to, I went to, with both those guys, we went to Medieval Times last night.
Marc:What is, is that?
Guest:So I've had the crazy Medieval Diarrhea all morning.
Guest:With that?
Guest:No, don't eat in Medieval Times, that's all I'm saying.
Guest:I would never, is that a theme place?
Guest:Yeah, it's like, you know, Knights in Armor and shit.
Guest:Sure, yeah, yeah.
Guest:It was Charlie Moothart from Ty's band's birthday.
Guest:Oh, and that's where you went?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that's the interesting thing, because you knew both of them when they were kids, and they both looked up to you, and they both went very different directions.
Guest:Oh yeah, everybody's branching out from the center.
Marc:Well, Cronin, it's like he makes pop records, really.
Marc:I mean, they're clean, and they're produced like that, they're layered, they got hooks.
Marc:That's his aesthetic.
Marc:Right, and Ty does everything that Ty does, right?
Marc:Ty's very much his own thing.
Marc:Right, but I think he definitely took your template of how to engage in music.
Guest:I mean, it was like San Francisco was really thriving at that exact moment, so everybody was sort of like pulling inspiration.
Marc:Yeah, I missed that whole thing.
Marc:We got really lucky.
Guest:We got really lucky at that time because there were just so many... I mean, there's still a lot of great shit happening in Oakland and the Bay Area in general, but at that time, there was just like everybody was doing a band.
Marc:And all different kinds of music.
Marc:Well, let's get to there through like... But the art rock element, like when you say that early on you were playing at MassArt...
Marc:and that some of the noise stuff that you use, like that world of music, it was totally inaccessible, really, except to like a core group of weirdos.
Guest:The more alienating it was, the more interested I was in it when I was a kid.
Marc:And that's how you started doing that kind of stuff?
Guest:But I also have always had a real pop aesthetic myself, so I'd try and make a poppy version of this like...
Guest:you know like i always loved i loved metal but my favorite metal bands were always ones that had hooks like iron maiden or some shit that's still very poppy you know you're like fucking yeah like like you're a metal kid yeah super into metal super and i mean i went to see all the metal shows when i was they were the i don't know if it was out of what was available to me but that was a lot of the all-ages shows were metal and punk shows right and i skateboarded which i sucked at and at that time they'd sort of come together in a weird way all that shit like skaters were like handing out tapes and shit even metal and early rap
Guest:as well like yeah like public enemy got really huge and like the young white crowd in providence you know like shit like like so you remember that reaching over yeah yeah you know boundaries and stuff so what was the first uh what was the first band my first band was called krang and it was with this guy jeff rosenberg who later did a band called pinker brown with me that was the first band i did when i lived in san francisco that was a duo but me and him played with uh like one of the guys from lightning bolt was in that band for a while this girl uh kara
Guest:Kara Hyde, who I think she did a band called V for Vendetta years later.
Guest:They all kind of went on to do their own things and moved all over the country.
Guest:But that was kind of like a guitar, angular guitar poppy rock band that was like my first foray into not just playing in my basement, but playing live and learning.
Marc:Playing guitar?
Marc:You were playing guitar?
Guest:Playing guitar, yeah.
Guest:And then I started playing for about a year.
Guest:I played in a band called Landed out there that worked Vermiform that was sort of more experimental.
Guest:Those guys are actually still playing every now and then.
Guest:Vermiform?
Guest:Vermiform, which was this band Men's Recovery Projects label.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Who were real, like...
Guest:Total weirdos.
Guest:Like, original all the way.
Guest:Like, they're all really funny and great and talented guys.
Marc:Like, what's a point of reference to the music?
Guest:Sam McPheeters, who's the guy who actually ran Verma for him back in the day, is around down here now.
Guest:I think he lives in Southern California still.
Guest:And he is mostly these days doing, like, writing and art, I think.
Guest:But he still does bands, too.
Guest:He's just, like, one of those guys that's like a jack-of-all-trades.
Guest:But also, like, he comes from, like, the smell school and, like, that kind of vibe of, like...
Guest:All ages, punk, cheap, but also like political as well.
Marc:Right, but lyrical, not complete noise or art music.
Guest:Not noise.
Guest:No, it's like he had other bands too.
Guest:But I mean, he always, it was political, but not noise.
Guest:No, it was like, and sort of tongue in cheek too.
Guest:Like those guys had a lot of comedy in their band.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:They would dress up like really ridiculous.
Guest:ridiculous it was always a different show he would show up one time he showed up and read the whole proclamation Abraham Lincoln dressed as Lincoln right you know right and bored their shit out of a punk crowd I watched him do like we had like a scrolling like people like the fuck is happening then the band played
Marc:But if you talk to Mike Watt and some of those other dudes... Dude, that guy's awesome.
Guest:He's the best.
Guest:He's got his own language.
Guest:Great guy.
Guest:That dude is moving at the fucking speed of light at all times.
Marc:But what they call punk rock as a style was not what punk rock was when it was used as a genre term.
Marc:Punk rock just kind of was an umbrella term for anything...
Marc:outside the norm, anything arty, anything weird.
Marc:Extending themselves for the first time.
Marc:Yeah, because if you listen to the Minutemen, that's not like what you would call punk rock if you heard today.
Marc:No.
Marc:But that was what punk rock was.
Marc:It was just dudes doing whatever the fuck they want.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That was the epic.
Guest:It wasn't so much a sound as an aesthetic.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So you kind of came up in that?
Guest:What was left of that?
Guest:A regular-looking... Like, you see some of those old punk bands.
Guest:It always blows my mind when you see, like, the weirdest... I can't even think of one to reference right now, but you see, like, one of the weirdest punk bands.
Guest:Then you see a picture of them, and they're just, like, fucking dudes that have, like, factory jobs.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:It's like what they did when they drank beer was to play these punk songs.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:In particular, I guess, Mike Watt and those guys, you know, it's like...
Guest:Those dudes were a bunch of blue-collar-looking dudes.
Marc:Just dudes.
Marc:And the music is, it's sort of, it's hard to explain the Minutemen, those records.
Guest:They're great.
Guest:They're a unique band, and nobody ever really sounded, they're like, it's like them, and you got like Per Ubu, like these bands are, you're like, Per Ubu, where is that coming from?
Marc:But they seem to have launched a lot of, like, Per Ubu, that kind of.
Guest:Oh, all those bands.
Guest:made a million a minute it's like what is it people was it I forget who made the famous quote about the velvet underground was like maybe you know or somebody's been like yeah nobody liked this band back in the day but everybody that ever heard them made a band right like all these people hear their shit and that's kind of what it was for was just like liquid inspiration like pure ubu doesn't that lead am I wrong to TV on the radio in a way you think sound wise yeah I could see that a bit like really reaching for it vocal yeah yeah yeah I mean that I
Guest:Paraubu is just they're like a weird bird on their own and that dude's still around yeah he's still playing shows as far as I know I don't know my bass player said he was working at Amoeba when they did an in-store and he said it was really actually yeah they are still playing because I met the drummer recently he's gotta be my age man but he said he said the guy was totally cool he was told by his handler not to look him in the eye
Guest:And Tim, my bass player, is like a real subdued, chill dude.
Guest:He's like, here, you told me enough to look him in the eye.
Guest:He's like, I'm still freaked out by that.
Marc:He seems like he might be a little, like, spectrum dude.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, you know, a little in a different world.
Guest:Beefheart or something, just like commanding a band, and everybody's like a little bit freaked out.
Guest:Beefheart.
Guest:Or like Marky Smith, you know, you get that guy that's like, this is my 30th drummer.
Guest:And the drummer's like, I don't know how long I'm going to be here for.
You know, like...
Guest:I am definitely, like, I'm friends with Mark Riley now, who was in the fall at the beginning.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I've met Marky Smith a bunch of times from playing with him back the day.
Guest:We were label mates.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they're both awesome dudes, but, like, to hear... He's the main guy in the fall?
Guest:Marky Smith was the main guy who, like, just, like, has, like... I've got, like, four of their records, because Ty was, like... Notoriously trashed his bandmates.
Guest:Like, if you read his biography, it's just, like, a shit-talking manifesto.
Guest:You're like, what the fuck, dude?
Guest:But...
Guest:Mark Riley talked about him.
Guest:I was like, hey, can you put me in touch with Mark again?
Guest:I haven't seen him in a long time and I want to send him something.
Guest:And Mark Riley was like, wow, he's like, that dude doesn't talk to me anymore.
Guest:I was like, all right.
Guest:He's like, it'd be very rare if that dude got to talk to me.
Guest:What was it about them that was so important?
Guest:They're much like the bands we were just talking about.
Guest:Nobody sounded like them.
Guest:And if they did sound like them, they were ripping them off.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It's just...
Guest:one of those bands like completely original.
Marc:Like there are those bands that like, uh, like Thai likes like Pink Fairies, Chrome, Hawkwind.
Guest:Those are all bands that were innovators in those sounds.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like Hawkwind, who the fuck sounded like Hawkwind, butt Hawkwind.
Guest:Same thing with Motorhead, like Lemmy split off from them.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Motorhead was the fastest, hardest band.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:They all did original things.
Marc:Pioneers.
Marc:Astronauts.
Guest:They were like the grandfathers of these subgenres that are branching off ever, ever.
Marc:Yeah, because the subgenres that you guys draw from Krautrock and all that stuff, I kind of knew someone years ago when I was young said, you got to listen to Cannes.
Marc:And I remember I had the tape when I was maybe in my 20s.
Marc:And I'm like, I can't get there.
Marc:I can't get it.
Guest:It's the only thing I'll never get sick of.
Guest:I don't know what it is about that.
Marc:Well, now I'm into it.
Guest:I still can listen to fucking records over and over and over again.
Guest:I have to like stop myself and like go on to, I have to be like, I'm listening to my Sabbath for a month.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, the same guy gave me Eisenstat and Newbotton and that kind of, like it was like, there was somebody who was like, just try everything.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You get out there.
Guest:This is raw horse.
Guest:This is crab genitals.
Guest:You're like, all right, fuck it.
Guest:I'll just eat it all.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I couldn't quite handle it.
Guest:Those are all acquired tastes, what you just described.
Guest:Your buddy's like, oh, yeah.
Marc:right anchovies but i had an open mind to it because when i was younger i mean i could walk into the residence i could walk into eno i could walk into fred frith john hassel that first wave of arty fuckers yeah but like i at the beginning i just couldn't wrap my brain around it until until uh fucking lance and ty and this is recent but they're like for me there's a resurgence all these lps are coming back people are actively searching out these records and right you know records cost 40 bucks a pop now like some of them
Guest:yeah and dan over at gimme gimme he gets me into the sort of like the more the quieter shit that of that that the the new the records that no one had ever heard before by bands that that were just never made you gotta love you gotta love those guys who are like uh curators guys and girls are just like uh hunters yeah like i i walk into permanent all the time lance will totally me over yeah because i'll walk in just to say hi like i'm not buying anything and he'll be like oh but dude and he'll be like wait wait and he'll pull up like two things like yeah
Guest:Just listen to him.
Guest:It's like the guy giving you your first taste of smack.
Guest:He's like, just smell it.
Guest:Just have a whiff.
Marc:You know what, dude?
Marc:Always sounds better in the store.
Guest:Actually, now I'm of that age where if I like it in the store, I like it at home.
Guest:I finally know what the fuck I like.
Marc:So when you started, you're just playing straight up like medley punk.
Guest:No, I mean, it was really still pretty poppy.
Guest:It took me a long time to get... No covers?
Guest:No.
Guest:Although, I think when I was a kid, I would have scoffed at that, but now I love a cover band.
Guest:I swear to God, like, I saw... Years ago, I saw a Pink Floyd cover band, and I fucking enjoyed this shit.
Guest:When the fuck am I going to see Pink Floyd doing, like...
Guest:early 70s pink flight and they had a light show and they got had roto toms they were playing like dark side of the movie it was great they did it i'm into all that shit i like all those classic rock bands and stuff but i you know my friend did a david bowie cover band called blowy years ago that was terrible but really awesome yeah yeah just like six dudes sort of half-heartedly learning bowie songs and then just like a guy in his underwear running out in the crowd but it was like kind of like a punk version but it was really i love that shit you know
Marc:So when do you, like, so how many bands are you in before you, like, make the leap and, like, go west?
Guest:Well, that was the funny thing.
Guest:It was in Providence.
Marc:And did you do records?
Marc:Are there records around that you can get?
Guest:The first record I was on, I guess, was with Landed on Vermiform, Sam McPheter's label.
Guest:It was a 10-inch.
Guest:That was the first vinyl album.
Guest:Oh, actually, no, that's not true.
Guest:Before that, I was doing OCS, the original version of OCS, but that was just noise.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I was doing, like, homemade instruments and shit like that, or, like, electronics.
Guest:What was that called?
Guest:It was called OCS.
Guest:That was, like, the original version of OCS, which was, like, the phonetic... And what drove you to noise?
Guest:like i said when i was a kid like anything that was more alienating like that was like it was like the to in my mind the obvious next step from punk and metal was to go into like hard noise and i remember the first time i saw like japanese noise bands like masana came over and played in boston at uh the playhouse yeah it's like a totally inappropriate venue for this japanese noise guy there was like 30 people there but seeing this guy do his thing live was so exciting to me and uh
Guest:just original again like it was like it was like uh post music kind of in my mind being like like not even music concrete but just like really aggressive like this guy was like he would he ran out in the crowd was like throwing tables the crowd it was actually a little bit scary and like so it's like i want to fucking do that performance art yeah performance and also like there's like all those stories about those guys in japan in particular there's a huge wave of this noise music earlier yeah it was like uh what was it uh hana tarash maybe like or was it i can't remember who it was somebody like drove like a
Guest:like got a bunch of people in a room and then drove a bulldozer through the wall while like everybody was like waiting for the performance to start like terrorizing the crowd the bulldozer that was really that's usually yeah that should be a closer somebody should have died you don't want to open that wasn't the opening band now the opening band was just a guy with uh just a guy doing throat singing but uh you know that was punk to me was like
Marc:But you knew, you must have known then, did you feel like there was an affectation to it?
Marc:Because you're a very skilled player and you're a skilled songwriter at this point.
Marc:Not at the time.
Guest:No, I sucked back then.
Marc:But did you think you were going to pull back from that or that that was it for you?
Guest:No, I always wanted to do different shit.
Guest:Early on, I played with hippie dudes.
Guest:I played with guys just making beats.
Guest:I mean, I never really gave a shit.
Guest:I was always into playing with whoever wanted to play.
Guest:It didn't matter where you were coming from or who you were.
Guest:I love... That's what we've been getting back into.
Guest:I've been trying to get more back into the root of it.
Guest:That's why things are getting jammier with us live and stuff is because...
Guest:When I was a kid, especially with guitar and synthesizers, when I first started playing, we would just jam.
Guest:And it was really, a lot of it was about doing drugs, I'm not going to lie.
Guest:It was like doing drugs to hang out and make music to do drugs too.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:The Spaceman 3 vibe was totally on point where you just get high to make a song to listen to when you get high next time.
Guest:very that's that's that's jay spaceman yeah it's fucking genius it's like i mean i mean it's maybe a bit shallow but it's fucking true so you got to give it a little bit they made some good records man that guy's still around like spinning records wearing a hockey jersey like i i powerful do you know him i've met them a couple times like i met a sonic boom i think yeah we've played festivals with like those dudes do varying projects i'm not super familiar i'm not gonna lie
Marc:Yeah, well, he did that one.
Marc:He did a Record Store Day release with that Kid Millionaire, that drummer.
Marc:Oh, that guy's amazing.
Marc:Yeah, Jay Spazeman.
Marc:Kid Millions, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, he's from Oneida.
Guest:We were fucking fantastic back then.
Guest:A great, super underrated band.
Marc:Yeah, and that record's pretty wild.
Marc:I saw them in Providence.
Guest:They kind of blew my mind.
Guest:Yeah, that band, they had like a huge American flag that they... It looked like they'd stolen it from like a car dealership.
Guest:It was like 100 feet across.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they set that up, and then the singer was like...
Guest:climbing on it and like ripping shit off the ceiling of this club in Providence.
Guest:I just remember being like, and then watching that drummer just like lay it down like non-statues of machine.
Marc:He's a badass.
Guest:He played for one time at a festival.
Guest:He did a thing where he played drums for 10 hours straight.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:Yeah, they're like, he's playing, he's still playing.
Guest:And I was like, I'll go see him in six hours.
Guest:I was like, I don't need to fucking be there for the whole thing.
Marc:I want to see it when it loosens up.
Guest:It's like watching Sting Fuck.
Guest:You're like, I don't have all day.
Guest:Like, can you call me 20 minutes before it's over and I'll come see the end?
Marc:Yeah, I want to see the closer.
Guest:Yeah, the money shot.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, just like a one China symbol.
Guest:Onada was the name of his name?
Guest:Oneida.
Guest:Oneida.
Marc:Oneida.
Marc:That was the band.
Guest:Really good live.
Guest:Oneida.
Guest:Yeah, he played in that.
Guest:And it was like him, an organ player.
Guest:Really nice dudes.
Guest:Nerdy New York.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like good, good New York music.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:New York should, in my opinion, always have the strongest shit.
Guest:Because it's New York.
Guest:It's where the Velvets came from.
Marc:So many bands.
Guest:And then you want New York to be like, fucking, that's where everybody should be making music.
Guest:Where you're like, what is this?
Guest:Is that happening anymore?
Guest:I don't want to say.
Guest:But I mean, I will say what I like there is very strong.
Guest:But it's only because I have such high expectations of New York.
Guest:Of the mythology of New York.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:That city is romanticized.
Guest:But it is.
Guest:I love going there and just walking down the street in the fucking snow.
Guest:It's still good, yeah.
Guest:If I could have the wherewithal to live there, I'd be like, I'd love to make music here.
Marc:Yeah, just to have that backdrop.
Marc:But I don't think it's the same city anymore.
Guest:Well, it's just like most cities in America now are being sold.
Guest:No doubt.
Marc:And I don't even know who lives in New York anymore.
Marc:And you were in San Francisco at the end of it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:San Francisco.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I mean, I lived in a house for nine years that was one of the best parts of my life and then had to move into a house I loathed for the last two years in a neighborhood I didn't want to be in, living with people I wasn't excited to live with.
Marc:So you do the noise record.
Marc:When do you move there?
Guest:When do you go to San Francisco?
Guest:I moved to SF when I was 23.
Guest:So it was in September.
Guest:I think it was like September 12th, 1998.
Guest:What was the first?
Guest:record there cool death of island raiders no it was i was doing a band called pink and brown pink and brown where's that name come from why that name just a terrible idea that came to fruit like it's like every now and then you come across and you're like it's not a good idea but i'm gonna do it anyway and it was just me and this dude in lycra body suits we were disguised yeah it was actually really fun and we did we played for like a year and nobody gave a shit and then we broke up and put out the record and then we came back to play a show and suddenly there were like 300 people at the first show and pink and brown pink and brown yeah you can look up some videos it's pretty fun shit lycra suits
Guest:Yeah, just disgusting.
Guest:So you're still doing that.
Guest:I'd take it off soaking wet and I'd put it in a bag and then take it out the next day and it would make everybody gag around me and I'd put it on and the crowd would just move away.
Guest:So it's still not a crowd pleaser.
Guest:Very hard to describe.
Marc:Defying them to like you.
Guest:I always remember being shocked that there were women at the show.
Guest:I'd be like, what are you doing here?
Guest:She'd be like, I feel like I think I walked in the wrong room.
Guest:Is there something less disgusting in the next room over?
Guest:you know she's like now now just drop her drink on the floor and walk the fight but like a lot of chin scratchy dudes be like i felt like the tonight show was pretty okay i'm sure those guys we had a lot of those dudes who like yeah yeah but uh our fans were cool what were you doing was that what was that noise or was it it was noisy rock it was like art rock yeah it was a two-piece and it was like you know we toured with uh we did a guitar and a keyboard just guitar and drums just guitar and drums that seems hard to me
Guest:Actually, it was super simple.
Guest:I mean, the band was... We never did a reunion show, really.
Guest:Who was the other guy?
Guest:Jeff Rosenberg.
Guest:Oh, Rosenberg, yeah.
Guest:He's in Lavender Diamond here and Daylong Valley of the Nile.
Guest:He's played with a bunch of bands over time.
Guest:He's old school, too.
Guest:Me and him played with The Smell a bunch really early on.
Guest:The only joint that would give us a show in Los Angeles would be The Smell.
Guest:So we played there fucking over and over and over again.
Guest:But those kids were the people that came to our show, so it made perfect sense.
Marc:So why San Francisco?
Marc:What made you go there?
Guest:It's just a beautiful place, man.
Guest:I mean, I still love San Francisco.
Marc:But there was no music out there?
Guest:No, there was a ton.
Guest:Oh, no, absolutely.
Guest:I mean, there was Deerhoof, who had been killing it for well over two decades now, I think.
Guest:Like I saw Deerhoof play at 4th Thunder and Providence as a noise band pretty much.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:With different members.
Guest:This guy Rob Fisk who moved up to Alaska.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And now they're sort of more like avant pop stuff.
Guest:But they just, they killed me when I saw them.
Guest:There was a band called The Deep Throats that I got to do a sort of post-Death of the Band record for that came out 15 years after they made it recently when Castleface put it out.
Guest:They were like a sort of tranny band.
Guest:really really like angular and filthy fucking punk band they were great really like just balls fucking balls all day I remember I saw them the first time on mushrooms and uh just was like looking at the singer being like what is happening right now like just to have my ass handed to me it was on the show the street with the shows on the street yeah
Guest:And it was also Chris Johanson used to be in that band, who's the painter who lives here back and forth here in Portland.
Guest:He's doing really well with painting.
Guest:He was playing bass in the band, so that's how I met all those guys.
Guest:But that band was fucking good.
Guest:They were one of those bands when I was young in San Francisco that I went to go see.
Guest:Every time they played, I would go see that band.
Guest:And then because of that, all their friends' bands were really good.
Guest:Like they had like sort of like a gender bending crowd, but very just a unique thing to San Francisco at the time was like a really just a dirty ass, like sexy punk.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Shitty fucking like lots of saxophones and shit.
Guest:You're like fucking who's bringing saxophone?
Guest:Like we are, you know, X-Ray Specs, like all that kind of vibe.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Those bands were totally inspiring and like, but like when I first went there, I didn't see any music.
Guest:I saw one band called Milai, like a grindcore band from Chicago at a club and the club was a shithole.
Guest:What year did you go there?
Guest:That was in like 97.
Guest:I drove out to San Francisco.
Guest:We went and checked out Austin.
Marc:I just left.
Marc:I was there in 93, 94.
Marc:I wasn't seeing much music.
Guest:I think what happened was it comes in waves very much in San Francisco.
Guest:Right now, this may be a bit of a lull just because of the bullshit people have been doing.
Guest:A lot of people have moved to the East Bay.
Guest:Right.
Guest:As you know, tons of people have moved to Los Angeles.
Guest:I was able to buy a house here.
Guest:Whereas up there, I got kicked out of four houses down for sale because I couldn't fucking buy them.
Guest:I was too strung out or too stupid to realize I probably could have gotten a mortgage, but as to whether I would have paid it or not was debatable.
Marc:But the scene seemed like... So you get there in 97, you're not really going out and watching, but you're playing?
Yeah.
Guest:I wasn't playing right out of the gate.
Guest:The first thing I did when I got there was sleeping on my friend's back porch.
Guest:I went out and got a job and an apartment that week.
Guest:The first job I had was working for just an obnoxiously high... I did a lot of construction and painting in Providence before I left to make money, and I learned how to paint and cook and shit, so I was able to do all the menial jobs and that kind of shit.
Guest:So I got a painting gig hooked up by my old boss in Providence, set me up with a painting gig in San Francisco.
Guest:It was a company called The Experts that was run by a guy named
Guest:this old british guy and so you just got you got planted you got a job i was making okay money but i had to be up at like 6 a.m as you can tell by looking at me i'm not really sure early yeah you want to do this at 10 i said how about noon like that's how i roll just that's how i've made my life so i don't have to wake up at six unless i want to but uh
Guest:Yeah, I painted, and then me and Jeff started a band, and I didn't even want to do the band with him because me and him had already done it.
Guest:I was kind of a cunt about it.
Marc:Which, Jeff Rosenberg?
Guest:Jeff Rosenberg, yeah.
Guest:We did Pink and Brown together.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then I guess I did like a slew of smaller bands over the years, just like little side projects, but Co-Trips and OCs were the other two main ones I did while I was in San Francisco, you know?
Marc:yeah and so when so when did you start playing when did you start getting into this scene because it seemed like it was pretty quickly but like it seemed like there was a lot of different strains of music going on i mean there's a lot of metal in san francisco at the time too yeah i mean san francisco but also there was some real hippie you know retro kind of like folky yeah that was sort of after i moved there like that we call that the coke folk like or like leather feather like that kind of like you know like
Guest:wow, man, Sequoia's having a party at her house tonight.
Guest:Who were those bands?
Guest:Fuck, I don't know any of their names, but I mean, that was an era of San Francisco that became really popular.
Guest:A lot of bands came out of that.
Guest:One thing that was cool about that is people were getting back to the root of just having one person play an acoustic guitar and sing, which I'm all about.
Marc:But was that where Newsome came from, Joanna?
Guest:Joanna Newsome, I guess she did live in San Francisco.
Guest:She was always, I mean, her harp playing is incredible.
Guest:Yeah, was it Fleet Foxes?
Guest:Were they baited?
Guest:They're out of the Northeast, out of the Northwest.
Guest:I think they're in like, I think they're Seattle maybe.
Guest:But like San Francisco, yeah, Joanna knew something.
Guest:Like that kind of shit.
Guest:Like that became very big there.
Guest:But that was long after I'd already been there for a while.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:We were more in like the...
Guest:I connected with like the noise.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I was a veteran.
Guest:That was like when that shit was happening, that was like when I was doing my most drugs.
Guest:So when you asked me bands names, I'm like, I have no fucking idea.
Guest:Yeah, right, right.
Guest:I remember just like muckling a friend of mine to keep him from yelling out at the show.
Guest:Like I was like, shh, you can't yell.
Guest:It's a guy playing a guitar.
Guest:He's like, I'm gonna fuck his own.
Guest:Like dragging my buddy out.
Guest:I'm like, what's wrong with you?
Guest:He's like, I don't know.
Guest:It made me mad.
Marc:So you guys were the sweaty, kind of, like, drugged up punk dudes.
Guest:Always, always.
Guest:Yeah, I definitely had that vibe of, like, somebody would, like, get on an elevator and a woman would, like, clutch her purse a little bit.
Guest:And I'd be like, come on, really?
Guest:Like, no interest in your shit, lady.
Guest:But I get it.
Guest:Like, then I would catch a glimpse of myself and I'd be like, oh, she's totally right.
Guest:right so that's where the ocs really came into form was there ocs yeah like ocs was originally uh it was this this guy patrick mullins who just actually came out to work with me a little bit here he lives in vermont now but it was me and him basically getting high and just playing music together but like we wanted to do something quiet because i just finished this band called uh coach whips that was really aggressively noisy yeah how many did you do records coach whips did i think three or five records yeah it was like a
Guest:It was pretty garage rock.
Guest:It was guitar, two drums, and a little Casio keyboard.
Guest:It was me and a girl.
Guest:She played maracas and stuff.
Guest:And I had two sets of bands throughout that band.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I wanted to do something really mellow, so O.C.
Guest:'s kind of started as this, like, project of literally just acoustic guitar, a microphone, and a guy playing, like, singing saw.
Guest:He plays saw.
Guest:And, like, a snare drum and a kick drum.
Guest:Or a floor tom, rather.
Guest:That was it?
Guest:Yeah, it was really simple.
Guest:And then he made homemade electronics, so he'd have, like, drones going and stuff.
Guest:So it was sort of hit on that...
Guest:that thing freak folk thing you're talking about except we were definitely like that was just you instead of we were like smoking meth and then going out and playing the quietest songs we could you know and like and like something about speed was always really funny to me where like people would get really high and then talk really quietly and like that'd be like this is totally perfect it's super high and then not be able to talk loud at all anymore we write some really quiet tiny songs and while your brain's on fire yeah i don't even know just like laying there breathing through your mouth all night like a goblin i have
Guest:Fucking... But because of that, it incorporated over time more and more members, and the music changed, and now we're at this rock and roll show, kind of, you know.
Marc:Where did you meet Ty and those guys?
Guest:Ty... They must have been, like, 12.
Guest:I think he was 19 when I met him, and he... Or 18.
Guest:18 or 19.
Guest:It was just random.
Guest:Like, I had heard about a show that was happening at, I think, Danger House Records, or whatever the fuck it was called.
Guest:It was, like, a little...
Guest:Tiny record store and like sort of on the edge of the outer mission that was like a punk record store that literally like you'd be flipping like crass record, crass record, cheap blondie record.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:But only things that would be classified as punk kind of.
Marc:Where did you live?
Marc:In the mission?
Guest:I lived at that time in the Lower Haight, which is where I had my really good stretch of San Francisco.
Guest:It was amazing.
Marc:Was Naked Eye still there?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Naked Eye know Steve.
Marc:Yeah, Steve.
Guest:Every day watching that fucking guy go and buy a pint of ice cream, just eating ice cream, but being like... I used to go in there all the time when I lived there.
Guest:So my neighbors all worked, my downstairs neighbors all worked at Naked Eye.
Guest:There was Miles.
Guest:Miles?
Guest:So Miles was my old neighbor for nine years.
Marc:Come on.
Guest:I lived above Miles for nine years.
Marc:Miles was like the classic video nerd.
Guest:Miles used to tell me, you remind me of a young you, and I'd be like, fuck you.
Guest:But I always remember being like, he's a good looking guy, so I can't take that as... But he used to sit there behind the counter with his glasses, right?
Guest:He had like tinted glasses and like blonde flippy hair.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Miles was my buddy who I lived above for nine years.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:He would let us... We would have full on rock shows in our apartment with like people getting fucked up on the street and like the cops would come and Miles would be like...
Guest:I'll go talk to the cops.
Guest:He was super cool.
Guest:And he would come up to the show and be like, just like, I'm going to talk to girls.
Guest:He has no interest in talking to me.
Guest:He's like, yeah, thanks for having a show.
Guest:I'm going to go talk to that girl.
Guest:And then the cops would come and be like, you let me deal with this.
Guest:And he'd be like over there flipping his hair on the cop.
Guest:He'd be like, oh, thanks a lot, Miles.
Guest:Okay, well, keep him in line.
Guest:Of that age where the cops were like, what are you, the dad?
Marc:Yeah, the hipster grown up.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Yeah, I remember Miles because when I was doing comedy there, I didn't have nothing to do.
Marc:I was living on South Van Ness.
Guest:I lived on South Van Ness on 18th next to the Whizburger for a while.
Marc:I was right there, like at 22nd, 23rd.
Marc:I've lived all over that city.
Marc:Yeah, and I was living with this hippie couple who owned the house, and we had the bottom.
Guest:I hope they still own that joint.
Guest:They're probably worth a few million.
Marc:I hope so, Terry.
Marc:I don't know if, I wonder if he's still alive.
Marc:He wasn't the healthiest dude.
Marc:But yeah, and there was just nothing to do.
Marc:I'd go to Muddy Waters, I'd get jacked, or I'd go to Horseshoe a lot.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Do you remember that weird, huge dude who used to wander around, kind of crazy guy?
Marc:I forget his name.
Marc:But he would show up at rock shows, too.
Marc:He was like a giant, but maybe he was already gone.
Marc:I can't fucking remember his name, but he was always around.
Marc:But I used to love the horseshoe, that brown sugar and coffee business.
Marc:Where they just have that fucking brown sugar.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Clumped.
Guest:You have to like knock it on the counter.
Guest:That's very San Francisco too.
Marc:Yeah, the pints of coffee, man.
Guest:Just getting jacked.
Guest:Yeah, Muddy Waters is, as far as I know, Muddy Waters is still there.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:And there's still a guy behind the counter being like, you can't fucking shoot up in here, dude.
Guest:Like just being like, that place was always the place where you'd go in.
Guest:They'd have free internet, but they'd always be like, you go to use the toilet and it'd be like a blue light bulb and like a combination code to get in.
Marc:Right, exactly.
Marc:In the back.
Marc:And I was there when the internet happened.
Marc:It was before email and shit.
Marc:You could go sit in coffee shops and have conversations with dudes at other coffee shops.
Marc:And that was it.
Marc:That was the beginning of it.
Marc:And now look where we are.
Marc:That doesn't happen anymore, man.
Marc:No, you can do it right from your house.
Marc:But so, okay, so you built the band though, right?
Marc:I mean, after the Casio and the Drones, I mean, you made a rock band at some point.
Marc:Oh, we were talking about Ty.
Marc:So you saw Ty.
Guest:So I went to this show.
Guest:This is actually pretty funny.
Guest:I went to the show.
Guest:I didn't know who Ty was.
Guest:I don't know if I'd heard about his band or maybe I went to see his band specifically.
Guest:It was this band called Traditional Fools that he still does reunions with.
Guest:It's one of his buddies.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I went there and they were just really fucking good.
Guest:It was like a pretty straight garage, which is not something I go search out anymore.
Guest:But they did it really well.
Guest:The ceiling was like, I'd be walking and my hair would be brushing the ceiling.
Guest:That's how low it was.
Guest:Literally a basement with a dirt floor and crushed beer cans.
Guest:This band was playing.
Guest:And he had a broken hand with a cast on.
Guest:And he had stuffed a drumstick into the hole and was playing drums with a cast with this cheesy stick sticking out.
Guest:And I was just like, this kid's a badass.
Guest:And then we talked.
Guest:And then I saw him after that do a solo.
Guest:He started off doing solo sets.
Guest:We just play guitar and play foot drums.
Guest:And it was just really good.
Guest:And we started talking.
Guest:I took him to a bar to talk to him about doing a record, his first record as himself.
Guest:And his buddy came in with me.
Guest:And then Ty was like, hey, can you just grab his ID and bring it back out and give it to me?
Guest:And I was like, how old are you?
Guest:I gave him his buddy's ID who looked fucking nothing like him, like a tall blonde guy with short hair.
Guest:And I gave Ty the ID and we walk in and the guy at the door looks at the ID and then he looks at Ty and then he looks at me and he's just like, asshole.
Guest:And then just let him go in and he's like, whatever, dude.
Guest:Like we had known each other from me going to that bar, but I was like, sorry, dude.
Guest:He's like, are you fucking bringing a kid here?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Your nephew?
Guest:And you talked to him?
Guest:Yeah, we made the first record.
Guest:He was actually the second record that I put out on Castle Face after the only other one I'd done before that was my own.
Guest:So me and this guy, Brian Lee Hughes, who started the label together, put out Ty's first record.
Guest:And now it's me and this guy, Matt Jones, doing it years later.
Guest:You put out a few of his records, right?
Guest:We put out Ty's very first solo record.
Guest:You did one with him and Cronin?
Guest:No, we didn't do that.
Guest:That was in the red, I think.
Guest:And we did a 7-inch.
Guest:I think that's it.
Guest:Did you play with him?
Guest:We toured with Ty a lot.
Guest:Ty opened up for us early on when he was doing a solo show.
Guest:We did a whole month together.
Guest:We played a slew of shows together.
Guest:Every year now, we've been doing a charity gig together where me and him would play a show and switch headlining slots for...
Guest:some local charity in LA or some shit, you know.
Guest:So you guys are still tight and it's good.
Guest:He was around here too, right?
Guest:I was at the Middle Evil Times with him last night, man.
Guest:Last night, right, and Cronin, yeah.
Guest:I watched him scream at a guy with a lance, which I thought was pretty ballsy.
Guest:We were fans of the Yellow Knight, it turns out.
Marc:But so what is the mostly the... So do you make money at the label?
Guest:The label makes money off of OC's records and, like, King Gizzard, we put out some of their shit, and Thai, and White Fence, perhaps.
Guest:Some of the bigger stuff does.
Guest:And some of the smaller records break even and make a little bit of money, too.
Guest:It's tricky, you know?
Guest:I mean, it's just a tricky business, but we also have a high output.
Guest:We're putting out, like, two things a month, so...
Marc:So that's like you're really in it.
Marc:You're making records and you're putting records out.
Marc:Tons of records, yeah.
Guest:My partner is a real workaholic too, so he loves the business end of it.
Guest:But I've been pushing on him maybe.
Guest:We need to pump the brakes a little bit so we can actually stop losing all the money that my band makes the label and putting it out on records that aren't necessarily making money.
Guest:It just seems like a bad business choice, you know?
Marc:But it's like, it's interesting that there was a period there where, you know, before CDs sort of took over everything where like these small labels were around, but they couldn't really find a way.
Marc:And now that vinyl's back and this music is... It's hugely awesome.
Marc:And there's all these deep rabbit holes of music nerddom.
Marc:Because I look at like, you know, if I read your wiki page, there are outlets commenting on, you know, sort of the lineups of your bands and whether or not... Like there's definitely people that are feverishly into your world.
Marc:And that took, what, years to build, right?
Guest:23 years of touring now, I think, or 22 years of touring.
Marc:And now what size rooms do you usually kind of jam?
Guest:I mean, it depends.
Guest:Here, I always prefer to play a middle-sized club and do it multiple nights.
Guest:So in New York, we'll play three or four nights at the Bowery or Warsaw.
Guest:I'll just do a few shows.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not that I have a problem with bigger clubs, but I prefer... I'd like a thousand or less club because then the show's still... When I go to a show at a club that has 3,000 people or something and I'm standing at the back, I'm like, what the fuck am I doing here?
Guest:It's just not the same thing.
Guest:Where you can't get that weird intimacy.
Guest:It's like you're wearing 30 condoms and you're not in the moment at all.
Guest:So I always prefer to play... I like doing multiple nights too because then for the pure fact of laziness, I can...
Guest:load the gear and we do one sound check or whatever, and then leave the fucking gear there for three days.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And I can go fuck off.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And our sound guy's like, do you want to do sound check?
Guest:And I'm like, we already did.
Guest:Why the hell would we do that again?
Guest:He's like, okay, I guess I'll just go eat again.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:He's going to Veselka.
Marc:Right, yeah.
Marc:How many pierogies can you fit in that thing?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:So you get a residency going for a couple of nights.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And we also, a lot of the places we play, we really get along with them.
Guest:So in like SF, we'll play at the chapel like three nights.
Guest:But this time around, we're doing Great American for two nights.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:That's a big room.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, it's not that big, though.
Guest:It just looks big.
Guest:It's like 800 or something like that.
Guest:But it's also, we were going to try and do three nights, but it's at the end of a month-long tour and, like, tacking on one more night.
Guest:So it's like, and being so close to home, you're like, eh, let's just do two nights.
Marc:And I imagine that unlike bands that, you know, were punk bands at the beginning, a lot of the crowd are, like, you know, guys my age.
Guest:I think that you'd probably have a lot of... We're pretty lucky with our spectrum.
Guest:We have a pretty broad-spectrum crowd.
Marc:Right, because you still appeal.
Marc:Like, I mean, the music is pretty vital.
Guest:I get old guys who are like, this reminds me of this band that they don't know about.
Guest:And I'm like, that's a good band.
Guest:You know, my favorite are like the old English guys.
Guest:They're like, fucking hell.
Guest:They'll like walk up and be like, what the fucking?
Guest:Like, and his older friend, there'd be like two old drunk guys.
Guest:They'd be like, I brought him because he doesn't know shit.
Guest:And he's like, I loved it.
Guest:I fucking loved it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:This is my daughter.
Marc:Like his daughter is like 15.
Marc:You remind them of a music that no one knows anymore.
Guest:Yeah, or I get to meet like little kids, like some guy will be there with this kid with like headphones on, like sound protecting headphones, like a little baby.
Marc:So how, like, so the audience is now, because the records, there's so many records.
Marc:How many records?
Marc:Like 20?
Marc:19 as of the one I have coming out now.
Guest:19 full length, but there's been a slew of EPs and singles.
Marc:And there's a constant evolution, like Floating Coffin is straight up kind of psych rock almost, right?
Marc:It's a little garage-y.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:You know, the vocals are a little further back, and that got a little echo to it, right?
Marc:We're getting a little bit more in the front.
Marc:Right, yeah, man.
Marc:And who's the woman that sings on... Bridget Dawson.
Marc:Who?
Guest:Bridget Dawson.
Guest:And she's been with you a lot, right?
Guest:Me and her have been working together on and off for like...
Guest:maybe 10 or 15 years now yeah i've known bridge is the best she's like my sister i've known her for she she's where she just came up with me and her working on a bunch of stuff here right now so yeah and that the one like an odd entrance is that is that like um was that stuff that you recorded for a weird exit that didn't make it on or what it was just we recorded like two records worth of shit but it was like as i was like orchestrating the first record to come on i realized that there was like a batch of other songs that were a little bit more ethereal or far out or or like a little bit
Guest:That record, in my opinion, was like a fans-only kind of thing.
Guest:Which one?
Guest:An odd entrance?
Marc:An odd entrance.
Guest:It's more like, for people who already like the band, this is not a place for somebody to start.
Guest:Because then you get in, like, I don't really get it.
Guest:Where would you tell people to start?
Guest:I mean, it depends.
Guest:It depends what they like, because we have a few different directions, I think, that we work with.
Guest:We have...
Guest:If they like the live show a lot, I'll always recommend the newest record because, frankly, once I get past something, I get sick of it really quickly.
Guest:I loathe everything I've done once a year has gone by.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, kind of.
Guest:I mean, there's moments here and there where I'm like, every now and then I'll fan ourselves and be like, I'm going to do a double LP of greatest hits.
Guest:And I'd be like, if I had to pick one song for my record, and there's some records where I'm like, blech.
Guest:Can't do it.
Guest:But you'd have to.
Guest:pick one song like i don't fucking know like the one that the people liked i guess yeah yeah but uh but there's like a lot of like things like for instance records that people really like are ones that i would recommend like uh like floating coffin was a big hit because that was the first one we hit where it's like pretty aggressively recorded yeah and it's very close to the live show right really like kind of we were getting really like the rock and live show yeah
Guest:So that's a good one.
Guest:But then there's also more acoustic records that we made that I would recommend.
Marc:Early on?
Guest:Yeah, there's a record called Hounds of Foggy Notion that has a DVD that comes with us playing it outside all over San Francisco, and it's recorded just with one microphone, and it's very intimate.
Guest:And you guys have that available still?
Guest:No.
Guest:But you can find it on eBay.
Guest:Actually, I want to repress it.
Guest:We've been talking to this guy about doing a VHS of it, talking about some hipster retro.
Guest:Well, if it's your label, why wouldn't you keep everything in production?
Guest:We do keep almost everything in production.
Guest:Honestly, that did not come out on our label.
Guest:It came out on a label that was an affiliate of Permanent called HSBX.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Captcha, right?
Yeah.
Guest:um but uh this guy ben put that out so i need to get in touch with him we've been i've been talking and this is like on the list of many things i need to do but me and matt my partner have been talking about getting this repressed because it was like people like that record and what's that other label that ty records on sometimes god no uh oh in in the red nah the one drag city drag city yeah yeah drag city does all the ty stuff now as far as i know yeah pretty much unless ty does like a one-off are you guys friends with them
Guest:um I've met them I don't really know them yeah like they're like I mean it's just like uh I don't know if all label guys know each other we've shook hands I've met I've met one dude a bunch of times because he's always at Thai shows there's no conferences there's no like no no good yeah yeah I just don't really know him so well so you're gonna so you got a new record coming out in August
Marc:Yes, August 12th.
Marc:And you're touring.
Marc:You took a break, and now you're back in it.
Marc:We're leaving two days.
Guest:We're going to Poland.
Guest:Have you ever been to Poland?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Poland's fucking great.
Guest:We're playing a festival called Off.
Guest:Last time we played there, the people in the crowd broke a hole in the floor, and I watched security rushing over to deal with it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I thought they were going to stop the show because it was literally a three-foot hole.
Guest:But instead, the security guards...
Guest:climbed down to the hole and stood back to back and just kept the crowd from falling in the hole.
Guest:And I remember making eye contact with him and the guy gave me a thumbs up.
Guest:He's like, no, no, it's okay.
Guest:And I was like, I love Poland.
Guest:And afterwards they were like, great show.
Guest:And I was like, I can't believe it.
Guest:They're like, we don't want the people to get hurt.
Guest:And I was like, that's not like security guys that I know who are like, I'm going to choke that kid.
Marc:I wonder what it's going to be like, because politically it's kind of crazy now.
Guest:I actually don't know what the hell's going on in Poland right now.
Guest:I have no idea.
Marc:Well, yeah, slight nationalistic bent, you know.
Guest:It seems to be really popular these days.
Guest:What's going on, man?
Guest:I just wonder how it trickles down.
Guest:These disenfranchised youth.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I wonder what, yeah, I imagine they're always there.
Guest:The thing about Europe, in my opinion, compared to the States or even the UK a little bit, is that people are really sensitive to fascism and shit over there.
Guest:More so than we are because we didn't live it as much as they... It wasn't on our turf.
Marc:We were fighting it.
Marc:They've been through it.
Guest:But, like, they were, like, getting... They were the ones getting fucking bombed.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, so it's like...
Guest:I know stories about like somebody calling somebody nuts over there and getting decked immediately because it's horseshit to call somebody over there.
Guest:So like stuff like that, like that's why like Le Pen didn't make it because people are starting to fight back.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And London, you do good there?
Guest:Yeah, we just played there.
Guest:We played there.
Guest:Fuck, we just played on the night of that fucking shooting on the bridge, which was pretty intense.
Guest:It happened while we were on stage.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:So it seems like that is becoming the norm to hear terrible news when you wake up.
Marc:When you get off stage.
Guest:When you get off stage, you're like, oh, fucking, you know.
Guest:Sam Shepard just died.
Guest:You're like, what the fuck, man?
Guest:That was sad.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:Well, we're of that age now where everybody we like is going to start dying.
Guest:That's true, man.
Guest:Somebody was saying the other day, people are dying really quick.
Guest:And I was like, no, man, you're getting old.
Marc:I was like, all these guys were fucking 20 when you were zero.
Marc:And they had a strong hold on their thing.
Marc:Like, you know, these cats that kind of like, you know, like Bowie gave so much.
Marc:Bowie built our brains.
Marc:The whole world cried.
Marc:I watched.
Marc:Yeah, but he built my brain.
Marc:You know, like it's so, obviously they're going to get old.
Marc:It's like somebody in your family dying.
Marc:Yeah, but you know, it's like, I mean, how many of the most recent records had you really listened to, but it didn't matter.
Marc:It was like, you just knew he was here.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And now you're here, except for the music.
Marc:Did you listen?
Marc:I've been listening to that last one.
Marc:It's fucking great.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:especially in retrospect while he was writing it it's like he to me is like uh what do you like you do do you know scott walker yeah do you like his bowie and scott walker both of these like crooning i mean obviously i'm very different ends of the spectrum yeah even who knows who they are but like both of them kept going further and further out yeah like bowie stopped doing like his like what he knew would sell and was like bring me the best electronic drummer you know just like yeah didn't give a shit anymore and you go like
Guest:Scott Walker making records with guys punching sides of beef and shit for the percussion.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I got to get more into Scott Walker.
Marc:I've only got a couple records.
Guest:Just start at the beginning, man, and keep moving.
Guest:He's great.
Guest:All right.
Guest:But it's like another thing.
Guest:It's like heavy personalities.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We just saw Iggy Pop play at FYF here.
Guest:Fucking dude.
Marc:It's great.
Guest:That dude's a wolf.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:How is he still alive?
Marc:It's great.
Guest:And he still looks great.
Marc:And he's so lucid.
Marc:I had him in here and he's like, you know.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:That's awesome.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:Every time I've ever seen him, they take him on stage and they throw him in a car.
Guest:He's like laying down like a rug.
Guest:They pick him up, toss him in the car and the car just drives away.
Marc:Well, Rollins told me that, you know, there's a real difference between Jim Osterberg and Iggy Pop.
Marc:So like when you sit down, you're talking to Jim.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:and you know he's like he's his memory's great he you know he's got dude's got all the stories man and he knows them though because like you make these assumptions about dudes that live a certain life and get to a certain age like they got to be out you know just brain dead or whatever but nope i don't think it seemed to me i mean even those guys were partying but like some some of those dudes were cut out to withstand the torments of drug use or touring or whatever
Marc:Right, and a lot of them, the myth, you know, it gets held in time, whereas they've moved on.
Guest:Oh yeah, they're not doing dope anymore.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Yeah, the last thing Keith Richards wants to talk about is dope.
Guest:But then you get those guys who are of that age that are still getting high.
Guest:Yeah, like I get a 70-year-old guy not too long ago, he's like, can you get me meth?
Guest:And I'm like, come on, dude, I don't want to be the guy that killed you.
Guest:Like, I refuse to have my name with yours in the paper when you're dead.
Guest:They're like, oh, and then this twat bought him the speed.
Guest:I'm like, it's just a picture of me like, I didn't know.
Marc:I thought he could handle it.
Marc:But I think some of them, like we were talking about before, like some of them might do a little bump to get the juices going, but they're not living the life.
Guest:I can't even imagine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm 42 now, and I'm like, fuck that.
Guest:You got to be out of your goddamn mind.
Guest:I'm like, have a pint of beer.
Guest:Why don't you have a drink?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And like, go watch Game of Thrones.
Marc:What's wrong with you?
Marc:You don't want to go smoking meth before you go on.
Marc:It's a three-day investment.
Guest:Just fucking me like a weekend at Bernie's, like on stage, like pulling a string.
Guest:So he looks like he's dancing.
Guest:I'm like, this was a huge mistake.
Marc:That idea.
Marc:The strings are kind of cool though.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, it was good talking to you, John.
Marc:Cheers, man.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:Did that get you up to speed on the Dwyer experience?
Marc:The OCS, OC's new record, November 17th.
Marc:But look up Dwyer.
Marc:Look him up and just go into it, man.
Marc:There's a whole rabbit hole of shit there.
Marc:I will play some music, much like all the music I've always played.
Marc:Someday, someday I will transcend the groove that I am stuck in.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:Buster lives!