Episode 859 - Joy Behar / Adam Goldberg
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast, WTF.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:Today on the show, I have Joy Behar.
Marc:Joy Behar is here.
Marc:She's a comedian and a host on a talk show called The View.
Marc:Do you know about The View?
Marc:She also just wrote a new book.
Marc:called the great gas bag and a to z guide to surviving trump world you can buy that but uh joy and i go back kinda i remember her from uh we didn't do a lot of comedy together but uh but i i always like her and i did appear i i was on the show i have to i have to bring that up to her i did her comedy corner thing on the view god how how fucking long ago was that
Marc:I don't remember, man.
Marc:There are all these little shows you could do.
Marc:Also on the show today, I have a brief chat with Adam Goldberg on the phone.
Marc:I did want to, let's read a couple emails.
Marc:You know, like I said, my life is pretty limited now because I'm working.
Marc:And my days are pretty much going to set and doing the thing.
Marc:I can't tell you a lot about what's going on there.
Marc:heartbreak mix maybe this that's a subject line just listen to your convo with lizzie goodman good stuff you mentioned that you spent the first decade of the new millennium listening to a single heartbreak mix help i'm nine months into a breakup after eight years i'm heartbroken but stuck on the same old loop of magnetic fields and hank williams songs good choices my friend
Marc:I know it would be weird and or vulnerable to share, but I was wondering if you might share a few of those tracks that helped you get through from one human to another.
Marc:Either way, thanks for putting yourself out there and for the show.
Marc:Lonesome Johnny.
Marc:Lonesome Johnny, you got to pick your own tunes, man.
Marc:You know the ones that work.
Marc:You know the ones that sob the...
Marc:sadness in your soul you know the ones that elevate sadness into beauty you know the ones that expand sadness into something eternal and perfect and pristine but not damaging something that elevates the sadness to just part of the human condition that makes poetry and change so powerful you know the songs and some of them just make you rock your head and make you go like fuck it and other songs make you go like
Marc:oh man oh she was so good she was the best thing and now she's gone and then you go back to fuck her i'm fucking rocking and then you go back to like oh why but hey man life is still beautiful and sadness is pure but i'll get through it man
Marc:You know, you got to find your own songs.
Marc:And it is too vulnerable.
Marc:I would be a little weird.
Marc:It would weird me out to share my heartbreak mix.
Marc:And I got to go back and find it.
Marc:I'd have to go back and figure out what songs I was listening to.
Marc:But it was very eclectic.
Marc:Like for the feelings involved.
Marc:Like you got to put some uplifting ones.
Marc:You got to put some blues on there.
Marc:Very select blues.
Marc:Don't overdo the blues.
Marc:Just the ones that make you understand why the blues exist.
Marc:And then the ones that have sort of a...
Marc:kind of dark ballady feel the famous three chord situation the elevators and then you have to have a couple ones that are just screaming raw powerful you gotta mix it up gotta mix it up lonesome johnny and i can only recommend what you're looking for i can't recommend the songs to you but good luck with it good luck with it and you'll get better you'll feel better don't obsess about it don't obsess about it it only took me like a couple of decades to really let it go
Marc:Here's one called white supremacists cancel a marching band contest.
Marc:This is kind of topical because it's turned out.
Marc:I don't think this resolved itself.
Marc:But as of today, this was they canceled.
Marc:Dear Mr. Marin, longtime listener, first time caller, so to speak.
Marc:I felt like I needed to get something off my chest today.
Marc:My youngest son, who's 16, informed me this morning that his marching band state contest was being canceled due to the protests by White Lives Matter, white supremacist group.
Marc:They are protesting in Murfreesboro, Tennessee.
Marc:The championship was to be held at the university, MTSU.
Marc:The university canceled the event due to safety reasons and concerns, which I understand, but it doesn't ease the disappointment and frustration of this group of young adults who have worked so hard since July to get to this point, not to mention the disappointment of the parents who have worked diligently with these wonderful, funny kids.
Marc:My son's school is a large Nashville public school.
Marc:Our music department has produced many fine musicians and
Marc:who play across the world, as well as great educators.
Marc:To have this contest taken away by a group of hate mongers is disgusting.
Marc:Going forward, I would just like to state to the supremacist, your words do not matter.
Marc:Thanks for letting a band mom feel better.
Marc:Sincerely, Mary, band mom.
Marc:That protest was canceled from what I understand, but I doubt that they did it in time to get these kids back on their horns and drums.
Marc:And I'm sorry, Mary, you're right.
Marc:You're right.
Marc:This is the proactive, beautiful things that America should be known for, which is contributing community and music into the world, educators, creativity, and not just...
Marc:Just sweaty hate.
Marc:Sweaty white hate.
Marc:You're right.
Marc:Well, I hope they reschedule that.
Marc:I do.
Marc:Willem Dafoe, doctor's offices.
Marc:Hi, Mark.
Marc:Loved your interview with Willem Dafoe.
Marc:I was amused when he was talking about how patients screamed and cussed at his mother while waiting to see his father and then so sweet to his father when they saw him.
Marc:As you recall, his mother worked in his father's doctor's office.
Marc:I'm an office manager for a doctor, 25 years, and let me tell you, nothing has changed.
Marc:LOL.
Marc:All the time, all the time, patients are rude and mean to the office staff when the doctor is running behind and has nothing to do with us.
Marc:And then they greet the doctor so sweetly.
Marc:If he says, sorry, I'm running late, they will respond, oh, don't worry, that's okay.
Marc:Please, as a public service, tell your listeners not to yell at us for something that is not our fault because we don't forget that kind of treatment.
Marc:Next time you call for an appointment, it may be a long wait to get one.
Marc:I better leave her name out of this.
Marc:But I can tell you from growing up with a doctor in the house, my father, if it's not an emergency and you're trying to get your father, your doctor, father.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:To talk to you.
Marc:He might just be eating dinner or taking a nap at home.
Marc:If you're waiting there in the emergency room and it's not an emergency.
Marc:He might be at the movies and he ain't leaving.
Marc:That's all I'm saying.
Marc:So Adam Goldberg, we're buddies and he's stranded in Toronto making a TV show.
Marc:And he's wants to he's trying to crowdfund some support to make a sequel to his film, The Hebrew Hammer.
Marc:It's called The Hebrew Hammer versus Hitler.
Marc:to be part of that, to crowdfund and be part of the production, go to the Adam Goldberg on Twitter for the link because he couldn't seem to come up with it in a practical way when I talked to him.
Marc:But this is a little phone call I had with Adam Goldberg.
Marc:He called me and we talked it out.
Marc:Hello?
Guest:Hey, buddy.
Marc:Adam.
Guest:How are you?
Marc:I'm good.
Marc:How are you, man?
Marc:What's going on?
Marc:What time is it there?
Marc:Where are you in China?
Guest:Fucking Toronto, man.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:What time is it there?
Marc:Is it another day?
Guest:It's 7 p.m.
Guest:here.
Marc:What time do you think it is?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Is it 7 p.m.?
Marc:No, it's not.
Guest:Yeah, 7 p.m.
Guest:It's like the other side of the world.
Marc:No, it's not.
Marc:It's like New York, isn't it?
Marc:Yes, it's one.
Guest:It's a time difference.
Marc:So what are you doing?
Marc:Are you up there with the whole family?
Marc:Are you recording this?
Marc:Yeah, I'm recording it.
Marc:That's what we're supposed to be doing.
Marc:So what are you doing up there, buddy?
Marc:I haven't seen you in a while.
Marc:I miss you.
Marc:Are you being held hostage by a television show?
Guest:Yeah, remember when we were in the car that day?
Marc:Yeah, you were very manic.
Marc:You were very manic, and you had a lot of ideas about things.
Marc:I hadn't seen you in a long time, and you were full of ideas and anxiety, and you were deciding whether or not you should go to Canada, and then you were upset about your house not selling, and you thought maybe you would never work again.
Marc:There was a lot going on that day in the car.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:The takeaway is I got a lot of really nice clothes from Mr. Freedom that day.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:We went to the jean store and after telling me you were worried about money, you spent like a lot of money on pants.
Guest:None of which I've worn.
Marc:Is that true?
Marc:You're compulsive.
Guest:Yeah, I'm compulsive.
Guest:So that day, or that day before, I think, was something I was offered this show Taken, this NBC show.
Guest:And I took the job, and that's what I'm doing here in Toronto.
Marc:Is that a show?
Marc:What season?
Marc:Should I know that show?
Guest:I mean, I don't know that you should know it any more than I know any show.
Guest:It's the second season, but only...
Guest:Clive and Jennifer, the two leads of the show, are coming back.
Marc:Well, what are you playing?
Marc:What's your character?
Marc:Do you play a guy?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:How much have you shot?
Marc:A lot?
Guest:Roughly half.
Marc:And you have no idea who you're playing?
Guest:I'm not sure.
Guest:No, I play a hacker.
Guest:I play like a kind of a Snowden-esque character who gets co-opted by the government, basically.
Marc:Oh, and how's the food on set?
Guest:I don't eat it.
Guest:I ate it for about a week, and I was almost immediately sick each and every time, often so gassy on set that I'd have to excuse myself.
Guest:So now I either don't eat or I have like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich or something.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:See, like I started shooting glow, and like I don't even know what it is.
Marc:Like the catering food.
Guest:Wait, I'm sorry.
Guest:Back up.
Guest:Should I have heard of that?
Marc:Yeah, it's a TV show on Netflix.
Marc:It's about female wrestlers.
Guest:Oh, Netflix.
Guest:I know what Netflix is because there's a building outside of my house, my old house,
Guest:That says Netflix on it.
Guest:Yeah, that's it.
Guest:That's the building where you work?
Marc:No, I'm on set in Atwater on some stages.
Marc:Yeah, I'm doing a TV show.
Marc:It's like a 10-minute drive from my house.
Marc:It's pretty nice.
Guest:Is that why you did it?
Marc:That's the only reason I took it.
Marc:I'm like, this is a shooting where?
Guest:That's my dream.
Guest:No, you get dream jobs.
Guest:Your own show, which was basically...
Guest:I don't know, let's just say it was shut in your house.
Guest:I mean, I know it wasn't.
Marc:It was around the corner.
Guest:But effectively, you know, rebuild my garage a block away.
Guest:And then this is like a 10-minute drive for you.
Guest:I have to go to fucking relocate my family every time I work.
Marc:Well, what do you want me to do about that?
Guest:You're blessed.
Guest:You're blessed.
Marc:I'm blessed and I don't even appreciate it as much as I should.
Guest:No, you don't.
Guest:You don't.
Guest:So in that drive, speaking of GLOW, I offered you...
Guest:Well, we've been talking for a while about doing something together other than my guest appearance on, I think it was called Mark.
Marc:Was it called Mark?
Marc:Marin.
Marc:Marin.
Guest:Marin.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We were going to go with Goldberg, but we thought that was weird.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That would have been weird.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:No, we were talking about doing a narrative film about two brothers, one who was in trouble.
Marc:There was a body involved, and we were at a country house.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:I don't think you should give it all away.
Marc:No, I'm not.
Marc:I don't think you should give it all away.
Marc:And I have another idea about a mock documentary.
Marc:You want me to pitch it to you right now?
Marc:We're playing ourselves, okay?
Marc:You're Adam, and I'm Mark, and we're driving across country, and we have some problems in Idaho.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Where we get kidnapped by neo-Nazis.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:It's fucking brilliant.
Guest:It's great.
Marc:But I wanted to, I added something.
Guest:We're never going to do it.
Marc:We're never going to do it.
Marc:You know why?
Marc:Listen to me.
Marc:I added something.
Marc:Their goal in life was to kill you exactly like you were killed in Saving Private Ryan.
Guest:Well, you make a joke, but those are the tweets I get.
Guest:People send me GIFs of me getting killed and saving Private Ryan.
Guest:And I'm like, yeah, that was the greatest day of my life.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Guest:You're only reminding me of one of the high points of my career.
Guest:But yeah, that is a good, that's very funny and ironic and quite meta.
Guest:And disturbing.
Guest:And somehow related to exactly what I'm dealing with right now, which is the crowdsourcing or crowd, equity crowdsourcing of this movie, Hebrew Hammer vs. Hitler.
Guest:And when it was announced,
Guest:I have gotten more bedwetting white nationalists with dorky avatars warming up ovens for me than I have since Sarah Silverman retweeted something I said about 11 months ago.
Marc:Just for the crowdsourcing, what is it?
Marc:How do people go give money to it?
Guest:Well, you're investing in it.
Guest:You're investing in it through this site called...
Guest:Well, Indiegogo, you know Indiegogo.
Guest:They're like Kickstarter, right?
Guest:So Indiegogo started this platform of MicroVentures, which was an investment site.
Guest:And it's equity crowdsourcing.
Guest:So basically, you know, you can give $100.
Guest:You could give $50,000.
Guest:But you're investing in the film, so you're not just getting a mug or whatever you're getting.
Guest:You can have a mug.
Guest:I'll make mugs or whatever.
Guest:So your guy who makes your mug should make the mug.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:But you give money.
Guest:And you own part of the film.
Marc:And you get a back-end deal with the donation?
Guest:Yeah, I don't know.
Guest:You're part of the waterfall.
Guest:It's all explained on the site.
Guest:Waterfall?
Yeah.
Guest:You know how there's a waterfall and back-end deals and, you know, the first money goes here, second money goes here, third money goes here.
Guest:So I don't know where you get your money, but you get your money in the back-end.
Marc:I got to say I feel like I'm getting fucked already.
Guest:Well, it's because I've been saying back-end a lot.
Marc:It doesn't sound like I'm going to win.
Guest:But Mark, let's be clear about something.
Guest:I don't want your money.
Guest:I offered you a role in the movie.
Marc:As Jesus, I know.
Guest:Yeah, as Jesus.
Guest:People, hello.
Guest:People of Mark Maron.
Guest:You don't want to see Mark play Jesus Christ?
Guest:But I'm 54 years old.
Guest:It's okay.
Guest:I understand.
Marc:So tell me the idea, and then we're just going to drive my thousands of people over to the Indiegogo site to get a piece of this movie.
Marc:What happens to Hebrew Hammer?
Marc:He goes back in time.
Guest:Oh, well, here, just to be clear, John Kelsenman was the writer-director, and I made this movie, The Hebrew Hammer, in 2003.
Guest:And at the time, I sort of was wary of being kind of over-identified with, like, something that sort of felt like a franchise-y type thing, and also with being so overly identified as some sort of Semitic superhero.
Guest:But I kind of, you know, gave into it.
Guest:And it turned out to be kind of, you know, rewarding.
Guest:And people, you know, it was kind of a cult movie and blah, blah, blah.
Guest:Um, and also it like moved people, even though it's a completely ridiculous comedy, it, it, it, um, it offended a lot of people, but it, but it moved, you know, it was like a Jewish power movie.
Guest:It's a, it's a parody of black exploitation films, but you know, I'm a Jew, but, uh, but he's a, you know, he's a Hebraic, uh, I know.
Marc:I saw it.
Marc:It was great.
Marc:I like how you called it a franchise movie.
Marc:Like, you know, like this is like, this is going to go on for a while.
Marc:I mean,
Guest:Well, all I'm saying is that it kind of lent itself to that.
Guest:It had a comic book reality to it and that kind of thing.
Guest:So for a year, for the subsequent couple of years after the film was released, people, and this was before Twitter or whatever, so I don't know where they were telling me this, I don't know, in the street, seemed to be clamoring for a sequel.
Guest:So in 2005, I said to John, I was like, we might as well do it, but if we're going to do it, we should go after the big kahuna.
Guest:I mean, we went after Santa Claus in the first one or whatever.
Guest:We should go after Hitler.
Guest:And the only way to really do that, obviously, is to use a time travel device.
Guest:So we kind of worked this script out.
Guest:John wrote it.
Guest:And, you know, it had gone through a variety of iterations.
Guest:And I would sort of have one foot in, one foot out throughout the years.
Guest:But during the offense of Trump over the last 18 months, I swear to you, my inbox, my Twitter mentions were sort of like 50%.
Guest:like a clarion call for resurrecting the hebrew hammer and fifty percent you know we're warming up the oven for you but really you know tacky uh... anti-semitic imagery from the thirties and um... and so i really thought huh this has got a more it has more context than it did before before it felt almost arbitrary and so i began to talk to john about doing a series of shorts that were literally related to trump um... which were quite funny actually we sketched out about five of them and in the end we should just devote all the attention
Guest:all the effort into trying to make the film.
Guest:And so we kind of bastardized the pilot premise of the shorts into the campaign video, which is in effect that we're resurrecting the Hebrew hammer, we're bringing him out of retirement because of the rise of Trump.
Guest:But the film itself makes no literal reference to that, although there is an infomercial star who becomes a president of the United States.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And is rather demagogic.
Guest:And then, yeah, we need to go back in time and, you know.
Marc:Deal with Hitler.
Guest:Of course, it's a wonky beta time machine.
Guest:It's called a time sukkah.
Guest:A time sukkah?
Guest:And that's how we end up meeting Jesus, by the way, which is the role that I wanted you to play.
Marc:You go back too far?
Guest:Yeah, it goes all over the place.
Guest:I've been describing it as villainous.
Marc:Oh, that's good.
Marc:So let's talk about this Jesus idea.
Marc:Is there any way that I could be like the last temptation of Christ Jesus?
Marc:Like the whole story of Jesus was made up and I'm actually in my 50s?
Guest:Well, okay, here's the thing, right?
Guest:So you were talking about your age and all of that.
Guest:And then I went home and I started to think about it.
Guest:First of all, I was 30 years old.
Guest:I was actually... How old was I?
Guest:I was Jesus' age when we made the first one.
Guest:So when we started making the second one, I said, I want to play Jesus, because, you know, when you look at those composite pictures of what Jesus may have looked like, they always end up looking like a kind of black version of me, you know?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And...
Guest:And so I thought, you know, that'll be funny because we'll go back in time and we'll meet Jesus and I'll play Jesus.
Guest:And then, you know, I show him pictures of the way that Jews have been depicted.
Guest:Well, I play in both roles.
Guest:So the Hebrew Hammer shows Jesus pictures of the way that Jesus has been depicted in, you know, in Catholic and mainstream culture and art and all that kind of thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, we all have a good laugh about it.
Guest:But then once I started to think about it, I was like, I don't want to fucking play that role.
Guest:I want something great.
Guest:And I've been wanting to do something with you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's like it's a no-brainer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you can, you know, you can do it and you can be out of there.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It's not like.
Marc:OK, OK, OK, OK.
Guest:So that point is at a point.
Guest:I was thinking about your age because, right, I had forgotten he was 33.
Guest:But think about it.
Guest:Think about the way guys actually aged in those days.
Marc:You know, you think he looked 54?
Guest:Of course he did.
Guest:You think he looked like fucking, you know, Jared Leto, a 20 year old Jared Leto?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Who wouldn't who wouldn't want to kill that guy?
Marc:that's funny so okay so how do you get how do how do we it sounds like a great idea i'm excited to almost be part of it and how how so what what where do people go can you make it i don't know if you go to my twitter or my instagram all that i'm just becoming unabashed
Guest:You're not.
Guest:There's unabashed groveling going on.
Guest:So it's like Lincoln bio should be my new fucking Twitter handle.
Marc:Why frame it that way?
Marc:Why not frame it as you're an artist that did a funny thing and you've got this great idea to do this sequel to the funny thing and you need some, you're applying.
Marc:Okay, I got it.
Guest:I got it.
Guest:I got it.
Guest:I got it.
Guest:I'm an artist and I did this funny thing.
Guest:And I have this idea of having everyone collaborate and make it with us.
Guest:So you're not only going to get to see the film, you're getting to be a part of the film.
Guest:And in success, you too will be successful.
Guest:How is that?
Marc:Pretty good.
Marc:But you don't know the website?
Guest:Uh, it's, it's app.microventures.com.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I'll have to clean that up when we put this on.
Guest:I'm telling you, dude, I, I don't, you know, I don't listen, man.
Guest:I don't make the rules.
Guest:No, I don't enforce them.
Marc:I'm glad you sound good.
Marc:You sound healthy.
Marc:You sound well.
Marc:You don't sound like you're sweating or worrying about things.
Guest:I'm on Prozac.
Marc:It's working.
Guest:I think it kind of is.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:When are you coming back?
Marc:Although,
Guest:February.
Guest:Can we, can we please have a, like a, like a, like a date?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We'll go out with the girl or just me and you.
Marc:I got to go watch you by pants again.
Guest:Or do you want to go out with the girls?
Marc:I envy that you're in Canada.
Marc:You know, you might end up staying there.
Guest:Please don't say that.
Guest:Anyway, I'm proud of you, Mark.
Guest:I am.
Marc:Thank you very much, and I appreciate that.
Marc:And I appreciate our friendship, and I want you to take care of yourself.
Marc:Stay in touch, will you?
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Guest:Well, I'm only a text away.
Guest:You know that.
Marc:Okay, buddy.
Marc:I'll talk to you later.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Talk soon.
Bye.
Marc:As I said before this thing, go to the Adam Goldberg on Twitter for the link to the crowdfund.
Marc:And yeah, get involved.
Marc:Let's make the Hebrew hammer happen.
Marc:Maybe I'll be in it.
Marc:So...
Marc:Joy Behar.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I've known her for years.
Marc:Not well, but she's a comedian.
Marc:She's on The View.
Marc:She's done a lot of little talk shows here and there.
Marc:But years ago, I did The View when she had her comedy corner thing where you'd sit there in this weird little fake brick wall corner that was built on the set of The View.
Marc:In my recollection, I stood up and did some stand up and then sat down with her.
Marc:She thinks that she just set me up and I just did the stand up sitting there.
Marc:I don't remember.
Marc:I just know there was a time where there were all these cable shows where all of us did them.
Marc:And the view, it was sort of an interesting, weird, little big deal.
Marc:It's like that's a lot of people watch that.
Marc:I'd like to dig up that footage of me on the view doing Joy stand up corner.
Marc:Perhaps I will.
Marc:I'll let you know.
Marc:But this is Joy Behar.
Marc:We talked about a lot of things, but she's got a new book.
Marc:The Great Gas Bag, an A to Z guide to surviving Trump world.
Marc:You can get that wherever you get books.
Marc:And this is me and Joy.
Marc:She was just here, by the way.
Marc:This just happened.
Marc:So this is me and Joy Dehar.
Guest:You good?
Guest:Good morning.
Guest:How are you?
Guest:Good morning.
Guest:Look at you.
Marc:Early in the morning.
Marc:But you're all done up already.
Guest:Well, you know, I had to do more last night.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I did access and the rest of it.
Guest:You know, when you're pushing a book.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The book.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Let's do it right out of the gate.
Marc:Joy Behar, the great gas bag and agency study guide to surviving Trump world.
Marc:Now, when he wrote this.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, it's obviously it's jokes, you know, and it's fun and it's cutting.
Guest:There's a lot of information also.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I know.
Marc:And it's all categorized.
Marc:But, you know, you talk about everyone who's involved.
Marc:You talk about the politics behind it and you talk about him.
Marc:But it gets progressively more scary and more difficult to make jokes, doesn't it, after a certain point?
Guest:Well, yeah, but that's why we have to keep doing it.
Marc:I'm on board.
Guest:I mean, we're comics, and comics are going to save the world, in my opinion.
Guest:Well, yeah, because we're the only ones that really tell the truth.
Guest:I mean, no one's telling the truth anymore, but comedians do.
Marc:Right, and they really stick it to him, and it affects him.
Marc:There have been moments, because I get, maybe a few months ago, sometimes I watch Alec Baldwin do his thing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:There was a couple of times when he was doing that where I was like, he's going to blow up the world because of this.
Marc:You mean Trump was going to be so angry?
Marc:Yeah, Trump would get so insulted that he was going to do something insane because of a comic.
Marc:Hasn't stopped me from talking about him.
Guest:Well, you know, it's interesting because I'm after him every day on The View.
Guest:Whoopi is too.
Guest:But he never says anything about us.
Guest:I think he's a little scared of the comedians.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He might be scared of us.
Marc:He learned how to shut up.
Marc:I think he's pretending like he doesn't register it.
Marc:Maybe he doesn't.
Marc:I don't know how mentally ill he is.
Marc:I know he's a little mentally ill.
Guest:Something's wrong with him.
Marc:No doubt.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you know what?
Guest:I don't even fault him 100%.
Guest:It's the Congress and the enablers and the collaborators, the Vichy governments that we're talking about here.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The craven sycophants and people that are willing to- And greedy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, yeah, it's all greed.
Marc:I can't.
Marc:But you've been in New York a long time.
Marc:You must have had other experiences with the guy.
Guest:I did.
Guest:He was on The View a couple of times.
Guest:He was there the day he came on to his daughter.
Guest:Remember that?
Guest:Yeah, right.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Where he said he would be dating her.
Guest:Yeah, she wasn't my daughter.
Guest:I said to him, who are you, Woody Allen?
Guest:And he kind of laughed at that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's how craven he is.
Marc:You got through to him.
Guest:And then another time we had him on the farm when he was first campaigning.
Guest:Oh, I saw him at Radio City at an Adele concert.
Guest:There he was with Melania.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I went over to say hello to him.
Guest:This is before I realized how destructive he was going to be and the fact that he was going to win.
Marc:No one did.
Marc:No one did.
Guest:And he said, can you believe the numbers, the poll numbers?
Guest:Even then, it was early.
Guest:And I said, Donald, what do you want to do this for?
Guest:What are you getting out of this?
Marc:What did he say?
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:The poll numbers.
Guest:The poll numbers.
Marc:So he was just excited.
Marc:He was surprised.
Marc:Well, I mean, I talked to other guys.
Marc:You know, I had Jeff Ross in here and, you know, the comics that knew him before.
Marc:You know, and they're...
Marc:at the beginning even stern was not apologetic but sort of like you know he knew the guy yeah stern yeah right you know and then jeff ross was on you know trump's plane and had a certain you know uh you know relationship and dynamic with the guy right and their first their first thoughts were you know like initially they're like oh i'm a little worried about him and i would hope that that's turned around
Guest:What do you mean they're worried about him?
Marc:Well, he doesn't eat well.
Marc:He's out of his league.
Marc:He's incompetent.
Marc:He's in trouble and this and that.
Marc:But now it's like, no.
Guest:Don't worry about him.
Marc:I'm not worried about him.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:I'm terrified every fucking day.
Guest:I went to his wedding also tomorrow night.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My manager at the time, Richard Fields, you know who he was?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Rich Fields from Catch.
Guest:Catch Rising Star.
Marc:The other half of Catch.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:With Rick Newman.
Guest:Rick and Newman, yeah.
Guest:And Richard Fields was in some kind of business with Trump.
Guest:And so I was invited to the wedding.
Guest:And it was like...
Guest:First of all, Marla appeared like, is it like the song of Bernadette?
Guest:You know, when she went to Lourdes and the Madonna appeared to Bernadette?
Guest:It was like that.
Guest:She sort of appeared in a grotto.
Guest:And like I always say, there wasn't a wet eye in the house, you know?
Guest:And so I get up to dance and I come back to my table and the film is taken out of my camera.
Marc:Like the Godfather?
Guest:Like the Godfather, like the KGB.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I said, what does he think?
Guest:I have a picture of him smooching with Rosie O'Donnell?
Marc:Why would they take the film out?
Guest:Because she was there also in O.J.
Guest:Simpson.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:They didn't want any pictures.
Marc:Hold on a sec.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I got to get new equipment, Joy.
Guest:I can't believe you got Obama to come to this neighborhood.
Marc:I was surprised myself.
Guest:I don't even know where the hell we are.
Marc:Highland Park.
Marc:But I was surprised myself.
Marc:I thought, you know, if I was going to interview the president, it would be someplace, you know, different.
Marc:The White House, maybe.
Marc:But no, he wanted to come here.
Guest:It was an ordeal.
Guest:But how did you get him here?
Marc:He wanted to do it.
Marc:I think there were some staffers that were fans of the show, and they started talking about it.
Marc:It took about a year for it to unfold.
Marc:But yeah, but eventually it happened, and the Secret Service came, everybody came, and that was that.
Guest:And he wasn't running at the time.
Marc:No, he was ending.
Guest:It was ending.
Guest:So he just liked the idea.
Guest:That's what I like about that guy.
Guest:He'll just do something like that.
Marc:Well, I think what he said is he really wanted to get people involved in politics in a very general way.
Marc:That's why he did it.
Marc:He was reaching out to people to get involved, which is a problem.
Marc:There's a whole side of this political spectrum that are sort of self-involved and just want things to be okay, and they don't do anything.
Guest:No, no, that's the majority.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Majority.
Marc:I have to, I think I'm part of that at some point at some times.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Even though with Air America, everything else during Obama, I was like, I think things are okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I'll be okay.
Marc:Things feel good for me.
Guest:Fuck it.
Guest:Remember when he was in office, we all relaxed.
Guest:We knew the daddy was taking care of business.
Guest:He wasn't provoking North Korea.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:Yeah, you did feel like someone was in charge.
Marc:Even if you didn't hear from him, you're like, I think we're okay.
Guest:Yeah, he's good.
Guest:He's smart.
Guest:He's not going to do anything stupid.
Guest:You know, I lived through the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Guest:I don't know how old you are.
Guest:I was in college.
Guest:I'm older than you, 20 years.
Guest:And I lived through that, and I was afraid I was going to be blown up.
Guest:I really believed it.
Marc:I feel that now.
Marc:I'm feeling that now in being in L.A.
Marc:I feel it.
Guest:I worry about it.
Guest:You really do.
Marc:Being incinerated, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, but I don't believe that any government is actually going to pull the trigger first.
Guest:I think it'll be like a rogue thing.
Marc:But that's what North Korea is.
Guest:Well, no, but they're a government.
Guest:They don't want to die.
Guest:They know they'll die.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:They don't want to die.
Marc:They're having a good time all day.
Guest:You're optimistic.
Guest:That Kim Jong-yum-yum is what he calls him.
Guest:It's having fun.
Marc:You think so?
Guest:Yeah, I think so.
Guest:It's like when I saw Saddam Hussein and the way he lived, I said, this guy's never going to do anything really destructive to himself.
Marc:Because he's taken care of.
Marc:He was on the payroll for years.
Guest:Yeah, that's right.
Marc:Yeah, but Kim's not on our payroll.
Guest:No.
Marc:Not in a long time.
Guest:Isn't it on China's payroll?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, I think so.
Marc:But I think they're pulling back a little bit.
Marc:So I remember when he started on The View, because I did the Comedy Corner.
Guest:Do you remember?
Guest:You had me on there.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:When the hell was that?
Marc:How long ago?
Guest:I'm there 20 years.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Two years off for being fired, but then I came back.
Marc:Right.
Guest:But yeah, that was a long time ago.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like was it the 80s?
Marc:Did you kill?
Marc:I did good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I remember I felt okay about it.
Marc:I was always a little angry and a little weird, but I mean, but you had me on.
Marc:I did well.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was sort of an interesting setup.
Marc:It was just on the view set.
Marc:There was a corner that was made out of boards and you sat there and then you go stand in front of the people and come sit with you for a minute.
Guest:And I set you up.
Guest:I set you up.
Guest:Right.
Marc:But like I was trying to figure out where, for years I thought you were Jewish.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:I just assumed.
Guest:I'm not.
Guest:I'm Italian.
Guest:I'm both sides.
Marc:I know.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I think I've worked with your daughter a million years ago.
Guest:Yeah, she remembers you.
Guest:Yeah, I don't think- Was that politically incorrect?
Marc:She was politically incorrect.
Marc:She was at HBO Downtown and I was doing short attention span theater.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Oh, that's right.
Guest:She worked there.
Marc:Yeah, she worked at HBO Downtown.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I was always sort of like, wow, Joy's got a daughter that old?
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I'm older than I look.
Marc:No, you look great.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:But I'm older than I look.
Guest:I started later than every other comic because I was a teacher.
Guest:I raised a kid.
Marc:Well, where'd you grow up?
Marc:Where'd you come from?
Guest:Williamsburg.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Old Brooklyn.
Guest:Old style.
Guest:I used to hang out at a mozzarella store.
Guest:In Williamsburg.
Marc:So before the Polish.
Guest:The Polish were in Greenpoint.
Marc:Oh, that's right, Greenpoint.
Guest:We were in the Italian section.
Guest:And then there's the Hasids over there, too.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:That's what it was.
Marc:It was like one side Hasidim, one side Italian.
Guest:Yeah, my mother worked for the Hasids.
Guest:She was a sewing machine operator, and she worked for the Hasids.
Marc:That's where they all were.
Marc:I remember when I was growing up, it was like Williamsburg was for the Jews.
Marc:It was for the real Jews.
Guest:The heavy-duty Jews.
Marc:So you grew up in that, and then there was tension, right, eventually?
Guest:Right.
Guest:No tension, no.
Guest:I grew up with bookies and people like that.
Guest:It was actually an interesting childhood, although it was sort of sad.
Guest:I never went to camp.
Guest:I never learned to swim.
Guest:I never rode a horse.
Guest:I just hung out on the stoop playing jacks my whole life.
Guest:Somebody said, that's so sad.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It's pretty exciting.
Guest:I think it gave me material.
Marc:Yeah, but how many kids in the family?
Guest:Just me.
Marc:Really?
Marc:What kind of Italian family is there?
Guest:The one with a hysterectomy.
Guest:We're going to stop it now?
Marc:That was it?
Guest:My mother had a hysterectomy after I was born, so she never had another one.
Marc:She didn't want any more, I guess.
Guest:My father was a compulsive gambler.
Guest:We never had a dime.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:He was a truck driver.
Guest:His idol was Jimmy Hoffa, because he was a teamster.
Guest:And you realize that the teamsters in those days, this is the way unions operated.
Guest:My father got his birthday off.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:I mean, who?
Guest:Where the fuck do you hear that?
Guest:That your father, that the grown men who are driving trucks are getting their birthdays off.
Marc:And that was in a contract negotiation somewhere.
Guest:Yeah, it was.
Marc:Our guys are going to get their birthdays off.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And they're going to wear hats and have a cake.
Guest:I mean, and now all they want to do is bust unions.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the reason that we could even have food on the table, it was because my father was in a union, even though he gambled most of his money away.
Guest:But it was enough left over.
Marc:So what kind of truck?
Marc:Where did he drive?
Marc:For who?
Guest:Coca-Cola.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So he worked for Coca-Cola.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he was a union guy driving Coca-Cola around.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:Stopping everywhere to get on pay phones to bookies.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:One time, he played the horses a lot.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:So one time, he was staring into space, and I thought he was having an epileptic seizure.
Guest:He was just listening to the results from Belmont.
Guest:He was.
Guest:I'm serious.
Marc:Just hypnotized.
Guest:It's like, what's the matter with you?
Guest:With the running?
Marc:Here they come?
Guest:That whole thing?
Guest:He was really a degenerate gambler.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But did he play cards or anything?
Guest:No.
Guest:No, he didn't play cars.
Guest:Just the horses.
Marc:That's all he liked.
Marc:So did you have guys coming to collect money at the house?
Guest:HFC called.
Guest:House finance.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:They called my mother and they said, we're going to take your furniture.
Guest:She said, take him, leave the furniture.
Marc:That's a good stop of her.
Guest:You know.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:I said, why don't you divorce him?
Guest:She'd go, where am I going to go?
Guest:Right.
Guest:How about around the corner, the Giovanni Angelucci's house?
Marc:I'll leave, get out.
Marc:Yeah, someone put me up.
Marc:The neighborhoods were tighter then, right?
Guest:Everyone took care of each other.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So everyone knew he was a degenerate gambler.
Marc:They probably felt bad for your mother.
Guest:The whole block were degenerate gamblers.
Guest:Bookies lived next door.
Guest:Some guy named Anuj, he went to jail.
Guest:I'd say, what happened to him?
Guest:They'd say, oh, he went to college.
Guest:College?
Guest:He didn't even go to elementary school.
Guest:What are you talking about?
Yeah.
Marc:But that's exciting.
Marc:And your mom worked for the Hasidim.
Guest:The Hasids, yeah, they used to say, Rosie, come to my daughter's wedding.
Guest:You'll dance with my wife.
Guest:She's like, what?
Guest:Why would I do that?
Marc:They're a very odd bunch.
Marc:The Hasids?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:i mean i get in trouble like sometimes because like i'm a jew and like and i sometimes make fun of them and then a couple of them will email me and they'll be like what are you doing why are you making yeah yeah they're more they're listening to the show though one or two just one or two and the one of the guys he's no longer a chassid he he he criticized me and then he said i understand then the next thing i know he's out here he's trying to be an actor without the curls oh really yeah he bailed he bailed on the chassids
Guest:One time I did a set at Catch, and these two Hasids came out afterward, saw me on the street, and they said, I hear you like Jewish guys.
Guest:And I said, not that Jewish.
Guest:Yeah, my ex-husband's a Jew.
Guest:The one I have now is Jewish, but the Hasid, no.
Marc:You're not that far on the spectrum.
Marc:Way on the spectrum.
Marc:Too far off on the spectrum.
Marc:I like the middle range.
Marc:The middle range.
Guest:But you basically have given up stand-up, haven't you?
Marc:No, no.
Marc:Oh, you still do it?
Marc:I just did a special on Netflix.
Marc:I'm out every week.
Marc:I usually work out the comedy store here.
Marc:I go tonight.
Guest:That's great.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I just did the best special I've ever done.
Marc:I mean, for Netflix, I never stop, no.
Marc:I'm just off to the side.
Guest:You're a workaholic, you said.
Marc:A bit, you know, I do.
Marc:I mean, I'm compulsive.
Marc:Because some part of me doesn't see it as work.
Marc:Like, there's still something about comedy where I'm like, it's a privilege in some way to be successful at that.
Guest:It is true.
Marc:And I'm shooting a TV show now, you know, that I'm on.
Marc:So, like, I feel that it's work.
Marc:But, yeah, I just keep going.
Guest:So you're actually making some money.
Marc:Yeah, I do.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So what did you do?
Marc:Okay, so you grew up playing jacks with a compulsive gambling father.
Guest:Go up on the roof.
Guest:A guy would expose himself.
Guest:Really, early years of exposing men.
Guest:They were jacking off in cars in the neighborhood.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's been going on forever.
Guest:It's going on forever.
Guest:Men.
Marc:They're men.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:What is it with guys, though, that they feel like- And they're dicks?
Guest:Yeah, and they would send pictures of them as if-
Guest:No woman is that interested in seeing a flying dick.
Marc:A detached dick.
Guest:Maybe if it's attached and the dick is doing something.
Guest:But to just see the actual penis is not interesting to women.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Have you talked about this with the ladies?
Guest:We discuss this every once in a while.
Guest:We try to figure out men and where they're coming from.
Guest:What's his name?
Guest:Weinstein?
Guest:No, the one with the schlong.
Guest:What's his name?
Marc:Anthony Weiner.
Guest:Weiner.
Guest:He sends a picture of his dick.
Marc:Anyway, let's go back to comedy.
Marc:So what?
Marc:You grew up there and then what happens?
Guest:Forget about it.
Marc:No.
Marc:Because when I was coming up, I remember you were always on TV.
Marc:I don't remember seeing you doing stand-up, but I was not always in New York.
Guest:Well, I was always scared of stand-up.
Guest:I've always been a little nervous about it, even though I do it all the time and I have been doing it for 35 years at this point.
Guest:But there's something about it that scares the shit out of me.
Guest:And so I get nervous before I go out.
Guest:And I just can't.
Guest:I mean, Jay Leno said to me, why are you always on panel when you come on this show?
Guest:Do some stand-up.
Guest:And I'm like, I don't want to.
Marc:It's hard, the eight-minute set.
Guest:You know, you have to really work that out.
Guest:The eight-minute set, yeah.
Guest:And I had the kind of set that was not like a set-up punch.
Marc:You're a talker.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it's hard.
Guest:I mean, like Rita Rudner, she was good in those.
Guest:Remember Rita?
Marc:One-liners, yeah.
Guest:One-liners, she was good.
Marc:And she had a whole character going.
Guest:Stephen Wright.
Guest:Same thing.
Guest:Fabulous.
Marc:Yeah, but that's not, like, who you are.
Marc:You're not a character act.
Marc:You know, like, they had very specific personalities.
Guest:Iemo Phillips, Judy Tenuta, remember them?
Marc:Why do you pick those four?
Marc:Those four, the opposite of your style.
Marc:I mean, yeah, of course they were good.
Guest:What I'm saying is that type of thing works better in those little five-minute spots.
Marc:Yeah, but I mean, Jerry can do it and Louie can do it.
Marc:You can do it.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I didn't feel comfortable.
Marc:Well, where did you start doing STEM?
Marc:What did you do when you went to college and then what was the job?
Marc:Did you go to college?
Guest:I went to college.
Guest:Where?
Guest:I graduated Queens College.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:Free, $64 a term.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then I got married.
Marc:Right away.
Guest:Like 22.
Marc:Oh yeah.
Guest:Ridiculous.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I met him in college.
Guest:He was great and smart.
Guest:Good guy.
Guest:Turned me into a socialist basically.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Jewish.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then we had a baby.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I had like a little bit of a breakdown.
Guest:I was trapped at exit 60 on the LIE while he was getting his doctorate at Stony Brook.
Guest:So I went and got my master's degree.
Marc:Oh, you did?
Guest:And then I really freaked out.
Guest:It was like, get me the fuck out of here or I'm going to kill somebody.
Marc:Where were you?
Marc:In Brooklyn?
Guest:No, in Long Island.
Guest:Long Island, yeah.
Marc:Oh, so that was it.
Marc:So you saw your whole life, what it was gonna look like.
Guest:Well, I had grown up with Italian people all around me, my family, my cousins, my aunts and uncles, and I was all alone in the woods there with two basset hounds and a guy who's getting his PhD.
Guest:And I'm like, I gotta get out of here or I'm gonna have a break, and a baby.
Guest:And so we moved to Queens.
Marc:What was the masters in?
Guest:English education.
Guest:I was teaching.
Guest:So you moved to Queens where?
Guest:I was funny at parties, Mark.
Marc:Where'd you move in Queens?
Guest:Forest Hills.
Guest:Had a really great apartment.
Guest:There was a balcony and everything.
Guest:And then what happened?
Guest:You were teaching?
Guest:I was teaching.
Guest:And then I said, I can't do this either.
Marc:What year?
Guest:High school.
Marc:How was that?
Guest:High school English.
Guest:It's not easy.
Marc:I can't imagine it.
Guest:It's a very hard job.
Guest:thankless i imagine so completely thankless and all you do is work mark papers make up tests spend your whole life marking papers and then i imagine like the percentage of students that don't give a shit it's got to be heartbreaking it's hard not to take that personally i would imagine well yeah and you have to be a disciplinarian and that's not my personality i don't want to tell people what to do but you got it must have been rewarding to have one or two good kids yeah i did have a few good kids i did how long did you teach
Guest:Oh, several, many years.
Guest:Lower East Side.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, Lindenhurst High School I taught at.
Guest:The home of the bunt, Lindenhurst.
Guest:They used to have bunt meetings there, yeah.
Marc:Oh, no kidding.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That was the, what is that, German club?
Guest:Yeah, like the Germans were there in Lindenhurst during the war.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then I said, you know what?
Guest:I can't do this anymore, the teaching.
Guest:I didn't know what to do with my life.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Were you depressed?
Marc:What did the breakdown look like?
Guest:Crying.
Marc:Scared.
Marc:Were you yelling at him?
Guest:Mean to him, probably.
Marc:Where did you take me?
Guest:Why am I out here blaming him?
Guest:But it was really my fault.
Guest:It wasn't his fault.
Marc:Well, it's good that you had that moment as opposed to just die inside.
Guest:You know, in those days, women would accompany their husbands.
Guest:So I was accompanying him in his life.
Guest:He was getting a PhD.
Guest:He was a professor.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Of what?
Guest:A sociology professor.
Marc:Where at?
Guest:Dowling College out on Long Island.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And so he was and loved it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was miserable.
Guest:I didn't know who I was, what I was doing.
Guest:All I knew was that I could get a laugh.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's all I knew.
Guest:So I said, I'm going to go into television and become like maybe a producer or something.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I get a job as a receptionist at Good Morning America.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:What year is that?
Guest:That was 1979.
Guest:Who was it on?
Marc:Who were the people?
Guest:Joan London and David Hartman.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Guest:I remember them vaguely sure.
Guest:Mark, when I tell you the worst receptionist, I was eight o'clock in the morning.
Guest:They call me up and they'd be like, where's Joan London?
Guest:I say, how the hell do I know?
Guest:I don't know where she is.
Marc:When she was on break?
Guest:No, she'd be off the air that day, maybe lactating somewhere.
Guest:She had a lot of kids.
Marc:Right, all right.
Marc:So when she had a day off, people who were watching would call?
Guest:They'd call.
Guest:Where is she?
Guest:I'd say, where are you calling from?
Guest:Canada.
Guest:What do you care in Canada?
Guest:We're Joan London.
Guest:I was terrible.
Guest:This is a funny story.
Guest:One time we had Albert Speer on, the Nazi from the Third Reich, the architect.
Guest:He was a guest.
Guest:He wrote a book.
Guest:And I, as a receptionist, had to feel the complaints.
Guest:The Jews?
Guest:The angry Jews?
Guest:The angry Jews are calling.
Guest:Was that Albert Speer you had on this morning?
Guest:I say, yes.
Guest:the nazi what do you mean you had a nazi on morning television i'd be like yeah i don't look i don't book the show okay yeah it was like and yeah you know i'd make jokes you have to fly them in from argentina they're a pain in the ass what do you want from my life right and so i i never got promoted for years there three years i never really got promoted like i could just hear something like the nazi
Guest:What do you mean you have a Nazi on television?
Guest:On morning television.
Guest:Maybe it would be better at night.
Marc:Now they're on TV every day.
Marc:Not the original crew.
Guest:Not the OGs.
Guest:These are the originals.
Marc:So you never got promoted?
Guest:So I never got promoted.
Guest:Then I got fired.
Guest:And I had a bit of a near-death experience because I had an ectopic pregnancy.
Guest:I was still married.
Guest:Then I got divorced.
Marc:That's the one that grows in the tube?
Guest:Yeah, really.
Guest:Horrible.
Guest:It's death involved there.
Guest:So I almost die.
Guest:I get a divorce.
Guest:And then I get fired.
Guest:So I'm like in the trifecta.
Marc:And you got a baby.
Guest:And I have a kid.
Guest:She's 11.
Guest:She was 11.
Guest:Okay, so now I'm thinking, what the fuck am I going to do now?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know what?
Marc:You're not getting a lot from the sociology professor, I imagine, money-wise.
Guest:There's no money there.
Guest:One thing you'll never hear is, you know, rich sociologist.
Guest:Those words don't go together.
Guest:So now what am I going to do?
Guest:I'm going to do stand-up.
Marc:What was that moment like?
Guest:How do you do it?
Guest:Where do I go?
Guest:So I get like five minutes together.
Marc:How?
Marc:Just wrote it?
Guest:I sat with somebody one day.
Guest:Was it just anybody?
Guest:He says, like you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But except he wrote everything I said down.
Marc:A friend of yours.
Guest:Sort of.
Guest:I paid him.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:I found this guy.
Guest:I paid him.
Marc:That guy's got a hell of a racket.
Guest:He said to me, you know, I'll write down what you tell me.
Guest:So he starts writing things down like, you know, I never went to camp.
Marc:You paid him like, what was his job?
Marc:Where'd you find that guy?
Marc:I need someone to listen to me tell Joe.
Guest:I can't tell you every single thing in this period of time.
Guest:Okay, it's a long time ago.
Guest:But I was in a show.
Guest:I looked in Backstage Magazine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I saw that they were hiring people for a show called Fun with Jane, Apologies to Dick.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Okay?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was going to be like a chorus line where you developed.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So in that milieu, I found this guy.
Guest:Oh, I see.
Guest:I see.
Guest:I see.
Guest:So he says, just tell me your story.
Guest:He would write, write, write.
Guest:And little jokes would appear.
Guest:I didn't even know I was saying that.
Marc:What was the one you just said?
Marc:That you...
Guest:You know, my family didn't believe in camp.
Guest:They believed in stoop.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:Stuff like that.
Guest:So he'd write things down.
Marc:That's one of those great early jokes.
Marc:The early jokes.
Marc:It didn't even have three beats.
Marc:You know, just a turn.
Marc:And you're hoping that the stoop will get the laugh.
Marc:And they usually did.
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Guest:In New York.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I'd say, you know, like, they never took me on vacation.
Guest:They tried to pass the cemetery office to the country, which is a true story.
Guest:I only told true stories.
Marc:What do you mean?
Marc:They took you to the cemetery because it's nice and quiet?
Guest:It's a very Italian thing.
Guest:They'd be at picnics.
Guest:We'd have sandwiches.
Guest:I swear to God.
Marc:Really?
Guest:I had photographs.
Marc:Near relatives or no?
Guest:Dead relatives were in the ground.
Guest:And live relatives would make the veal and pepper sandwiches.
Guest:We go to St.
Guest:John's Cemetery in Woodhaven.
Guest:So I tell the guy everything.
Guest:And now I have a few minutes.
Guest:And I try it out for friends.
Guest:And they laughed.
Guest:It went into the five minutes.
Guest:And then I would try to get on at the improv.
Guest:And of course, Silver Friedman never put me on.
Marc:I got in there at the end of it.
Guest:You had to hang out there until 2 in the morning in those days.
Marc:Everywhere, though.
Marc:What year was that, though, for you?
Guest:That was like 1982.
Marc:Because I got there, I got to New York like in 89 and it was over.
Marc:You know, it was just me.
Guest:It was done, yeah.
Marc:It was me and Jerry Diner.
Guest:Jerry Dinerstein changed it to Diner, yeah.
Marc:Me, Jerry Diner and Bob Shaw, you know, and Uncle Dirty.
Guest:Uncle Dirty.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:All right, so like, so Silver, so 80, what'd you say?
Guest:83, 84.
Marc:So it was still, it was almost, it was not the heyday.
Guest:Yes, it was.
Guest:Still?
Guest:Yeah, it was.
Guest:I mean, Kennison was hot.
Guest:Robin would stop in to catch a rising star.
Marc:Catch a rising star, but we're talking about the improv.
Guest:Yeah, no, the improv never put me on.
Guest:I went to catch.
Marc:Right, so you went to Silver.
Guest:I was better at catch, yeah.
Marc:And she was nasty.
Guest:No, she was not nasty to people.
Guest:She was not nice to women comedians, except Carol Siskin.
Guest:She was nice to her, but not to me.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I'd say to her, look, I can't stay up till one o'clock.
Guest:I have a kid, and I have to get up in the morning.
Marc:And what did she say?
Guest:It's not about your talent, Joy.
Guest:You don't hang out here enough.
Marc:uh yeah you know yeah no i know they all wanted to there was no help look i look i for years i had problems with lewis you know like yeah for the same fucking reason like i i mean i tell you man because you know i got there in like 86 and all my buddies were going over the catch and you know he was making todd sit there for three hours to do a one in the morning for four people todd todd um barry
Guest:Todd Barry, he's funny.
Marc:He's great.
Marc:He's really funny.
Marc:No, they were good guys.
Marc:I come from the same generation as Louie and Nick DiPaolo, and a lot of them were working.
Marc:By the time I come down, I guess I move in 89, and he just, yeah, come down, hang out, and I'm like,
Marc:I can't fucking hang out.
Marc:I could not tolerate him having any control over my life.
Marc:And for years I held a grudge, for years.
Guest:I know a lot of people have grudges against people like him who ran those clubs.
Marc:Sure, but the funny thing was, and I've talked about the grudge, and it was really active for a long time.
Marc:And then last year for the New York Comedy Festival, which he books,
Marc:They asked me to do Carnegie Hall, and I wouldn't even do the New York Festival because of him, and I'm like, I guess I get it.
Marc:I'm going to do Carnegie Hall.
Marc:Like, yes.
Guest:Did you do it?
Marc:Yeah, and now I'm okay with Lewis.
Guest:That's right, of course.
Guest:It's like, you know, if he's not putting you on, you're not going to like him, but what are you going to do?
Guest:That's his job.
Marc:It might have been right.
Marc:He might have been right.
Guest:At the time.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Well, weren't you in the alternative comedy crowd?
Marc:No, there was no alternative then.
Guest:Yeah, with Janine Garofalo.
Marc:No, that was the mid-90s that that happened.
Guest:Oh, that was later?
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Oh.
Marc:So, like, you know, like, but in the late 80s, I was a Boston comic.
Marc:I moved down to New York, and I started in L.A.
Marc:as a doorman at the comedy store.
Marc:Got fucked up on drugs.
Marc:Went back to Boston, where I went to college.
Marc:What kind of drugs did you use?
Marc:and pot and booze, and went back to Boston and started my career doing one-nighters, you know?
Marc:And then I'd come down to New York to try to get on at those clubs.
Marc:And all I could get on, I could get Barry Katz's club, the Boston Comedy Club, but that was a decade before alternative.
Marc:I mean, that alternative thing.
Marc:Oh, I see.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I was just,
Guest:I always thought you were in that crowd, but you're not.
Marc:No, I was, but almost everyone in that crowd at the beginning were club comics.
Marc:It was me and Jeff Ross and Silverman.
Marc:Even Janine started in clubs.
Marc:None of us came out of nowhere.
Marc:It was just a different venue.
Guest:Yeah, most of the comics I came up with were 10 years younger than me.
Guest:You guys were 20 years younger than me.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah, because I started later.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So who was your crew, like in 80, what, 82?
Guest:Susie Essman.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And Lou DiMaggio.
Marc:Yep.
Guest:Seinfeld was around at those days.
Guest:Gilbert Gottfried.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Kinnison.
Marc:But he was out here and he would go there occasionally.
Guest:Oh, Kinnison?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, he would just kill.
Guest:Rodney Dangerfield used to come in all the time.
Marc:Oh, fucking Rodney.
Guest:Rodney, he was funny.
Marc:Did you work his club?
Guest:He was the original guy with the bathrobe out in the street.
Marc:Yeah, well, that's because he had that club.
Marc:He had Dangerfield, so he made it like his house.
Guest:Dangerfield was a scary club.
Guest:It was pitch black.
Guest:You didn't know who the hell you were talking to.
Marc:Rick Messina used to book it back when he was nothing.
Marc:Everyone gets big, man.
Marc:It was a scary club.
Marc:Iram Kasdan was always there.
Guest:We all did pretty well.
Guest:We all did pretty well.
Guest:I mean, as you say, it's a privilege to be in this business.
Marc:Well, yeah, if you make it through.
Guest:If you don't make it, you got to get out.
Guest:You got to get out.
Marc:Who do you know that gets out?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:A lot of people who we don't hear about are still on the road.
Marc:I know, I know.
Marc:It's tragic and it's difficult.
Marc:But I know very few, what are you gonna fire yourself?
Marc:That's the fuck up thing about comedy.
Marc:It's like somewhere in the back of your head, you're like, I could still hit.
Marc:And yeah, no one's gonna tell you like, nah, I don't know.
Guest:You know who's really funny and still trucking around?
Guest:Who?
Guest:Dom Herrera.
Marc:Oh, no, he's great.
Marc:I see him all the time.
Guest:He's so fucking funny.
Guest:He's great.
Guest:I love Tom.
Guest:I go to see him wherever he is.
Guest:I travel to Belmore.
Guest:I always see him.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:He strikes me funny, that guy.
Marc:He's the greatest.
Marc:Oh, yeah, he's great.
Guest:Last time I saw him, he's so fat now, and he's like, I got about like three months to live the way I'm going.
Marc:His eyes are closing.
Marc:The eyes are closing.
Marc:He looks like a little Buddha.
Marc:Oh my God.
Marc:I go eat with him sometimes.
Marc:He works a store out here a lot.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So like, so, okay.
Marc:So who, so it's, you're a catch and it's the mid eighties.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's like, it's still like the early eighties were crazy, but it stayed crazy there for a long time.
Guest:It did, but I started to get work.
Guest:I started to.
Marc:How was that first time on stage?
Guest:The very first time I got on stage was at the improv.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And it was like 10 o'clock at night.
Marc:Dirty little corner.
Guest:And it was packed.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I swear, I'm not bragging, I killed that night.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So now, fine, you killed one night.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Fucking deal.
Guest:You got it.
Guest:Now I'm thinking, I'm not doing this again, even though I killed.
Guest:It's too stressful.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I come back to it about six months later.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And now they put me on at one in the morning, same material, in the toilet.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And there's like nine people.
Guest:So now I'm thinking, what am I going to do now?
Guest:I'm not doing it.
Guest:I don't have the ability.
Guest:I could never get a grip on it.
Guest:I could never get a grip.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Those late night spots, man.
Guest:To this day, I walk out there and think I'm going to bomb.
Guest:I always think, oh, they're going to hate me.
Guest:Really?
Guest:So somebody who wrote a book about creative visualization, she says to me, listen, you need to go out there and think these people are going to love me.
Guest:I'm going to be so funny.
Guest:I said, are you trying to ruin my act?
Guest:Because I need a negative warm up.
Guest:I need a negative warm up.
Guest:Otherwise, I can't do it.
Marc:But I used to do that, too.
Marc:I mean, I used to listen to the opener.
Marc:And I think you can sometimes feel a crowd.
Marc:Like, you know, when you're in a club and you watch the opener, you're like, that table's a problem.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:You're just like, I can't.
Marc:But I'd look for that.
Marc:Like, for years, for most of my career, I'd be like, this is going to be terrible.
Marc:It's going to be terrible.
Marc:They're going to fucking hate me.
Marc:And then I go out there and right away, you're already fighting.
Marc:Right away, you're defying them to like you.
Marc:Like five years ago, something gave way.
Marc:I was like, I don't give a fuck anymore.
Marc:It was the best thing.
Marc:I started doing larger venues and I'm like, they're here to see me.
Marc:I don't give a fuck.
Marc:I live up here.
Marc:I've been up here my whole fucking life.
Marc:I know what's gonna happen up here that hasn't happened already.
Guest:Well, that's good that you do that.
Marc:I'm not afraid anymore.
Guest:I sort of feel that way about my life in general.
Guest:Right.
Marc:That's better, because I don't feel that.
Marc:So I guess it's one or the other.
Guest:Let's say taking on Trump.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's like, unless they're really going to come and be in jail.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's like, what is he going to say?
Guest:You're old?
Guest:You're fat?
Guest:He's already said all that to me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:I mean, what is he going to say about me?
Guest:He's already written in his book, I Have No Talent.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:So, fuck him.
Marc:He wrote that about you?
Marc:He singled you up?
Guest:Yeah, she has no talent, he said.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:In one of his books.
Guest:Because he didn't like that I did a joke about his hair.
Guest:The guy comedians were all doing hair jokes, but when the woman did it, he didn't like it.
Guest:That was my first tip-off, that he was a total misogynist asshole.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I used to see him when I did Conan.
Marc:I did Conan with him once, and it was scary to me.
Marc:Like, he felt like a connected guy.
Marc:Like, it felt like, you know what I mean?
Mm-hmm.
Guest:We don't think after all those casino deals that he's not in bed with, he's going to find a horse's head on his bed.
Guest:But his wife lives with a horse's ass, so we're even.
Marc:He just felt scary to me.
Marc:Like, you know, I saw that everyone treated him like a clown.
Guest:Because he's a bully, that's why.
Guest:He's a bully.
Guest:I've been dealing with it.
Guest:Listen, Bill O'Reilly came on The View and tried to bully me.
Guest:It's on tape one day.
Guest:He goes like this to me.
Guest:Shut up, listen, and learn, says to me on The View.
Guest:Five minutes of listening, of watching this, I get up and I say I'm walking.
Guest:I just walk off the set.
Guest:And Whoopi follows me.
Guest:I said, I can't sit with this asshole bully.
Guest:Listen and learn.
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:Who are you?
Guest:Who are you?
Marc:Yeah, no, you stand up to everybody.
Guest:And it turns out he's a complete moron.
Guest:$32 million he had to pay somebody.
Guest:Last night on Mara, I said I wouldn't fuck him for $32 million.
Marc:No, I saw you with Huckabee.
Marc:You gave it to her.
Marc:You stick it to them.
Guest:I stick it to them.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:They come back for more.
Guest:Nobody really gets that mad at me, apparently.
Guest:The politicians don't.
Marc:No?
Guest:Nah.
Guest:They don't take it seriously.
Guest:We're comedians.
Guest:That's why I say we're the most subversive, because they don't take us seriously.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And so they think, ah, fuck it.
Guest:Who cares what Alec Baldwin's doing on television?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, you know, it gives a lot of people sanity because like the more sensitive people that, you know, like are sort of more progressive and somewhat balanced in a different way.
Marc:They have a different system of thought.
Marc:Like if we don't get the funny to them, you know, they'll collapse into themselves.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:like you know a lot of them a lot of us are fighters but you know you you get tired of fighting and you get depressed you know there is a sort of a futility and a hopelessness that like for a while there like i had to watch i had to watch bill i had to watch john oliver just to make sure yeah yeah just to make sure you know every week that you know there was a counterbalance to this so i didn't fall into complete hopelessness
Guest:Well, you know, I think that that's one of the purposes that we serve, which you're saying.
Guest:I mean, not to give us so much credit that we're like Aristotle and Socrates, but it serves a purpose.
Guest:I remember when one time I was watching Gilda Radner on the Johnny Carson show, and she said to him when she was a scared little girl up in Canada, she'd watch Carson at night and she'd say, okay, the world is okay because Johnny's there.
Guest:And it stuck with me, that little rap she gave.
Marc:That's touching.
Marc:That's touching.
Guest:It's very touching.
Marc:It's true.
Guest:I mean, people watch The View, and they listen to you, and they say, okay, they're still okay, so maybe things are not going to be so bad.
Marc:That's why I still like live television when I see it, because it's like, this isn't pre-recorded.
Marc:For years, I still just sit down and see what's on.
Marc:Because somewhere in my heart and in my mind, I think there's a guy operating it.
Marc:There's a guy choosing to put this on now.
Marc:Yeah, that's right.
Marc:But there isn't.
Marc:So it's all programmed whenever.
Marc:But when people are alive, I'm like, okay, that's happening now.
Marc:So there are other people in the world.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's the secret of The View, too, is that one of the secrets is that it's live.
Guest:We're making it up as we go along like you are.
Marc:Right.
Marc:No, it's great.
Marc:It was an exciting time.
Marc:So when you did stand-up, when you did it, were you working as a comic?
Marc:Were you headlining?
Guest:Were you out there?
Guest:Well, there was a booker named Ruth Stern.
Guest:Do you remember her?
Marc:I don't remember Ruth Stern.
Guest:She was the most annoying person you would ever.
Marc:I remember a couple of them, but I didn't do a lot of those one-nighters in New York.
Marc:Roger Paul, I knew.
Guest:Roger Paul was his booker at that time.
Guest:She was a booker that was at the Friars Club.
Guest:The joke about her was that she was so annoying, they threw her off of Schindler's List.
Guest:That's the joke.
Marc:That's a classic Friars joke.
Guest:And she used to book me in the tri-state area, country clubs and things, because I couldn't travel.
Guest:I had a kid.
Guest:And so I give her a lot of my credit, Mr.
Marc:So you were doing like what?
Marc:Two-person shows?
Marc:You'd go out with an opener or what?
Guest:They'd have an opening act.
Marc:Like a young comic would come out?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like a new guy?
Guest:Yeah, because the Jews were the best audience.
Guest:First of all, the Jews pay for entertainment.
Guest:A lot of groups do not.
Guest:And they would pay for it and they were in the country clubs or wherever they are in the theaters at the B'nai B'rith or at the JCC, wherever the hell they congregate.
Guest:And they pay you.
Marc:Yeah, and they liked you.
Guest:They liked me.
Guest:I would say 99% of the time.
Guest:There was always a 1% where it was like orthodox and then they would turn on me.
Guest:One group was a rabbi and his wife were sitting there.
Guest:And I did a joke about, I don't know, about that movie where Melanie Griffin falls in love with a Hasid.
Guest:And I don't know.
Marc:I can't remember the joke.
Guest:And she was like, oh, can I try on your tzitzis?
Guest:Your tzitzis would look so good on my tzitzis.
Guest:And they wanted their money back.
Marc:That's where they drew the line.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:So they helped me a lot.
Guest:And then I would get shows.
Guest:I got a show called Way Off Broadway in 87 on Lifetime.
Guest:Larry David was one of my writers.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But did you do any of the hotels?
Marc:Were they still around?
Guest:What hotels?
Marc:Like in the Catskills?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I did the Concord.
Guest:I did all of them with their smelly back rooms.
Guest:And I did those.
Guest:Yeah, I did all that.
Guest:They paid some money.
Guest:I made a decent living.
Marc:They're all gone now.
Guest:All gone.
Guest:All gone.
Guest:You know, gambling's coming up there.
Guest:They might come back, but not the way they were.
Marc:No, because it must have been towards the end though, like in the 80s, right?
Marc:But it was still New York Jews coming up.
Guest:Even the 90s, I think.
Guest:I used to do Fallsview.
Marc:But was it mostly Hasids or was it all kinds?
Guest:No Hasids.
Guest:They were regular Jews when I was there, yeah.
Guest:Regular Jews.
Guest:Regular reforms.
Guest:And they're a good audience.
Marc:Sure, because that's the sort of history of American comedy.
Marc:Part of it is- It's Jewish.
Marc:Yeah, it comes from up there.
Marc:Right, absolutely.
Marc:All right, so wait.
Marc:Larry David was a writer for you?
Guest:Yeah, he was a writer on Way Off Broadway.
Marc:That was a TV show?
Guest:TV show on Lifetime.
Guest:On Lifetime?
Guest:Rick Derringer was my band.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Rock and Roll Hoochie Coo.
Guest:We had Laura Branigan.
Guest:We had on Daryl Strawberry.
Guest:A lot of good people.
Marc:Yeah, you've done a lot of shows in weird places.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:Like network-wise, because I was looking at your stuff.
Marc:It's like you're on TV a lot, but you were in some of those zones where it's sort of like, what channel is that?
Guest:HLN.
Guest:I was on HLN.
Guest:I had a great show on HLN.
Guest:I wish they had not canceled me there.
Marc:But what year was this way off-Broadway thing?
Guest:87.
Marc:Huh.
Marc:And then after that I got- Was that like the beginning of Lifetime?
Guest:Was that the- Yeah, I think it was in the early stages of it.
Guest:And what was the show?
Guest:The show was a variety show.
Marc:Oh, that was that, okay.
Guest:With music and interviews and stand up.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And people come and Larry was there?
Marc:So you were friends with Larry?
Guest:Yeah, I was friends.
Guest:I'm still friends.
Guest:Larry would do like cold openings.
Guest:with him he was in them yeah a character Larry Block I think was the name of his character right and he said to me recently he said that's where I really started to learn to improv oh really on that show like he does on Curb Your Enthusiasm was that before Fridays or after after Fridays right yeah it was after okay so he was broke in those days you know yeah he needed the job he didn't know what was gonna happen no how would he know he didn't see it did you did you ever see him do stand up
Guest:Oh, yeah, he's notorious.
Guest:All the comedians would come in when he would get on because they knew that he would walk out or turn on the audience.
Guest:I mean, if a girl would look at her and watch during his act, he would, well, are you bored?
Guest:And then he would walk off.
Guest:One time, the great story is he came out there, he just looked at the audience and went, eh, I don't think so, and he walked off.
Yeah.
Marc:And Lewis would tolerate that, but make me sit around all night.
Guest:Because Lewis found that to be funny, I guess.
Marc:Well, no, back in the day, it was like you were kind of half hoping someone would lose it.
Marc:No one does that anymore.
Marc:Because everyone's got phones and people are so self-aware and they're self-conscious.
Marc:But early in the 80s, I saw so many comics just snap out.
Marc:Just like fucking lose their minds.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, there were a lot of drugs in those days.
Guest:Sure, but was Belzer around then?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Belzer was MC.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Okay, so you were a catch then.
Guest:I was a catch.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's a sweet guy.
Guest:I love him.
Marc:He's great.
Guest:All this conspiracy stuff that he's been talking about with JFK is now coming to fruition.
Marc:Finally, he's going to get the papers.
Marc:But who else was there?
Marc:That was the mid-80s, so that was a big time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was there for a while before I got there.
Marc:Richard Lewis already gone.
Guest:Lewis was in LA.
Marc:Yeah, and who were some of the other kids?
Marc:Colin?
Guest:Gottfried?
Marc:Colin Quinn?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's a great guy.
Guest:I love Colin.
Marc:He's a sweetheart.
Marc:So funny.
Marc:Yeah, I love him too.
Marc:There's some tension with us.
Guest:Why?
Guest:What kind of tension?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I was an asshole, I guess, probably.
Guest:People like your podcast.
Guest:You turn yourself in a lot.
Marc:Yeah, I do.
Guest:That's good.
Marc:Well, yeah, I mean, I'm trying to get him on, but he's like, you know, I said, do we have a problem?
Marc:He goes, we might.
Marc:And I'm like, is there anything I could do?
Guest:You know who else was around at that time?
Guest:Mostly in Boston, though.
Guest:Jonathan Katz was so funny.
Marc:Oh, he's great.
Guest:I love Jonathan Katz.
Marc:Oh, he's great.
Marc:Very subtle, you know, his jokes.
Guest:He had the guitar act that was funny.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:No, the guitar at the end where the voices come in because the pre-recorded voices.
Marc:But that joke he did about, you know, when does life begin?
Marc:You know, the argument, the debate about when life begins.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He goes, for me, it's after that first cup of coffee.
Guest:I can relate.
Marc:It's clever.
Marc:But, you know, taking the abortion.
Marc:How are you going to do an abortion joke, you know, and then disarm it?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:No, he's great.
Marc:I've had him on here.
Marc:I did the Dr. Cat show.
Yeah.
Guest:I did that one too, where people say, is there anything off limits for comedians?
Guest:Is there anything off limits for you?
Marc:You asking me?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, whatever it is, you got to be able to handle it.
Marc:You have the freedom to do whatever you want.
Marc:So whatever is off limits is your personal capacity.
Marc:So you want to try something, you know, you want to push the envelope.
Marc:You know, if you can shoulder the burden of what might come at you, then then so be it.
Guest:That's it.
Marc:So is so nothing's off limits.
Marc:But on the other side of that, you're going to have to answer for it.
Marc:Yeah, if you go too far.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I like to shoot up.
Guest:I don't like to shoot down.
Guest:So if you shoot up, I think you're in pretty safe territory.
Guest:But look at James Corden.
Guest:He got in trouble last week or two weeks ago for making a joke about Weinstein.
Guest:And Rose McGowan, she took a shot at him only.
Guest:Not a lot of comedians were doing it, but why him?
Guest:And I thought, you know, he's making jokes about Weinstein.
Guest:He's not making jokes about the victims.
Guest:So I think that that's okay.
Marc:Well, there's a lot of angry people, a lot of, you know, rightfully so, and it's a difficult climate.
Marc:You know, it's like there was a time where I come from a bunch of comics, like from Kenneth and I, you know, I spent time with Sam.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Where, you know, pushing the envelope was what you did.
Marc:Yeah, that's right.
Marc:Like, you know, when all of a sudden it's like you can't do rape jokes, there was a lot of comics were like, oh, yeah?
Marc:Well, I'm going to figure out how to do it.
Guest:Chris Rock was doing that.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Date rape joke.
Marc:Yeah, and then there are repercussions.
Marc:But again, it's legal.
Marc:It's your right.
Marc:You can say whatever the fuck you want.
Guest:But then you're going to get the blowback.
Marc:But that's it.
Marc:When people ask me about that, well, is there censorship?
Marc:No, but you've got to be ready to take the hit or answer to it.
Guest:There's a lot of PC now.
Guest:I mean, and people are always taping you where they're allowed to or not.
Marc:Taking you out of context?
Guest:Takes you out of context in a comedy club.
Guest:You could say something and then it appears on Twitter out of context and then you get screwed.
Guest:So it's a little bit, I don't like stand up anymore like that.
Guest:It's inhibiting.
Marc:But there's PC, but there's also just things that evolve.
Marc:Like, you know, it's like, all right, I can take the word retard out.
Marc:I don't need to use that word anymore.
Marc:You know, tranny.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:It's not going to kill me not to use that word anymore.
Marc:So there's evolution too.
Marc:Like there's a lot of words that people don't say anymore because over time they were hurtful.
Guest:Yeah, but it's not the word.
Guest:I can relate to what you're saying about the word.
Guest:I can take the word out.
Guest:I don't need to use the word franny.
Guest:I mean, I was chastised by GLAD one time when I was on HLN.
Guest:By who?
Guest:GLAD, you know, the gay and lesbian.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Because I won an award from GLAD.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm on their side and they know it, but they called me up and they said, don't use tranny.
Guest:It's offensive.
Guest:I said, really?
Guest:I thought it was affectionate.
Guest:And it's not.
Marc:Well, there's arguments within the community.
Marc:RuPaul said he's fine with the word.
Guest:But that's RuPaul.
Guest:He can get away with it.
Guest:I know, I know.
Guest:It's like, I can say bitch and cunt.
Guest:Maybe you can't.
Marc:I've thrown a few cunts around.
Guest:You know, the Brits use twat and cunt for everybody.
Guest:The dog is a cunt, the cat is a twat.
Marc:I've used that defense before.
Marc:They're like, move to Britain then, you cunt.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But you know, Lenny Bruce made the case.
Guest:It's just a word.
Guest:It's just a word.
Guest:But it depends on the intent.
Guest:If the intent is to harm and hurt you, then I'm offended.
Marc:But if it's not to harm you... I don't register it.
Marc:I don't register it the same way, but we're comics.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So our sensitivity, you know, like when I hear stuff after being around comedy for decades, I've heard everything.
Marc:On stage or off.
Guest:You know, I want to tell you something.
Guest:I was on Access Hollywood set yesterday.
Marc:Yeah, how was that?
Marc:You like being in a spaceship?
Guest:It was actually fine.
Guest:No, they were fine.
Guest:It was two women that I liked.
Guest:Anyway, there was a guy there who came up to me, and he works on the air.
Guest:He goes, I really love you, Joy.
Guest:You're doing great show.
Guest:And you're so inappropriate.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:all the time i say really i said um like give me an example oh there's so many examples i can't even give you one and i'm thinking is that the word to describe me inappropriate and i don't think that mark maron and larry david would think i'm inappropriate no and susie esmond they don't think but this guy thinks i'm inappropriate so what to your point about comedians we have a different way of speaking
Marc:Well, also, like, you know, like inappropriate that to him, that just means it might just be you make him uncomfortable because you ask questions that, you know, put people on the spot.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It might be a misapplication of the what is appropriate mean in the context of what you do.
Marc:You're the one that's supposed to be inappropriate.
Guest:Well, the comedian, we are comedians.
Marc:And that's what social morons.
Marc:We are in a way.
Guest:No, no doubt.
Guest:All of us got in trouble as kids.
Guest:Every one of us.
Marc:I've had girlfriends tell me like not to do it at parties.
Marc:Like don't make it about you the whole thing.
Marc:And I'm like, all of a sudden you got a black belt in storytelling and telling jokes.
Marc:You don't want to, she doesn't want to be upstaged or what, not this one, but like years ago.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:Do you have a girlfriend now?
Marc:I do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so what's she like?
Marc:She's a painter.
Marc:She lives in a different world.
Guest:Oh.
Marc:She's an abstract artist.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:You don't want a comedian for a girlfriend.
Marc:No, I tried that once.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Who was that?
Guest:Anybody I know?
Marc:No, she was a, I don't think so, Mishnah Wolf.
Marc:She was a comic.
Marc:She's not anymore.
Marc:I married her.
Guest:You married her?
Marc:Yeah, and that didn't work out.
Guest:But, you know, like you said before, how does the comedian fire herself?
Guest:You say she's not anymore.
Marc:Well, I don't know what happened there.
Marc:She wanted to be a writer more.
Guest:Yeah, a lot of comics became writers.
Marc:The smart ones.
Guest:Well, if you have the discipline to sit there and do that part.
Marc:Well, the people that were able to say, like, oh, I've got this talent, but do I want to live that fucking life?
Marc:No.
Marc:So how do I apply this talent otherwise?
Marc:You become a producer, you become a writer, you write for other people.
Guest:Yeah, but I think a lot of those people would like to be performers.
Marc:Yeah, but they couldn't cut it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, Judd Apatow's back, but what's he got to lose?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, but he's not a funny comic, is he?
Guest:He is.
Guest:He's a funny stand-up?
Guest:He is.
Guest:I've never seen it.
Marc:Well, you know, he started as a stand-up, and then he went out, and he became a joke writer, and then a producer, and he made a billion dollars, and now he's back doing stand-up.
Marc:He came back around.
Marc:He starts doing stand-up again, but he's humble.
Marc:Like, he knows he's about a middle, you know?
Marc:he's a middle act right but but he's got he's a great joke writer he wrote jokes for everybody right so we watched him sort of work it out and work it out now he's got a special and uh the jokes were great i mean and he was great he you know he got back on it what's the persona you know if you don't have a persona on stage that's probably what we're talking about when they become writers they really didn't have a persona what took me 20 years to become me
Guest:It doesn't happen overnight.
Marc:Like, it's like your persona.
Marc:You didn't decide it.
Guest:No.
Marc:You just, like, it come out of you.
Guest:No, but, you know, because I was 40 when I started, I already had a persona, a personality.
Guest:And I had a whole 20, 30, 40 years of material already.
Marc:But you've done a lot of things.
Guest:Yeah, I had done the teaching.
Guest:You were who you are.
Guest:People say, oh, she's the one who's a teacher or whatever.
Guest:But when you're 20, you don't have that much information.
Marc:You're growing up in public.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:No, his persona is like he's a father.
Marc:He's aggravated about things.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:No, it's good.
Marc:He has a point of view.
Marc:Definitely has a point of view.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And he worked hard.
Marc:And I'm going to talk to him.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I think he's been on here before, but he had a special.
Marc:So how did you get the view?
Marc:How did that happen?
Guest:I went to a, somebody booked me for free for Milton Berle's 89th birthday party.
Marc:So you did all that Friar shit, huh?
Guest:I was always, because they were the ones who were booking me.
Guest:So I was involved with that group.
Guest:So this guy calls me up and he says, you know, it's a big party at the Waldorf.
Guest:Could you get up and do 10 minutes?
Guest:So I say, all right.
Guest:So I go to the Waldorf with my husband, who's now my husband.
Guest:And we're sitting there and who's in the audience?
Guest:Regis Philbin, Barbara Walters, Arlene Dahl.
Guest:It was like Madame Tussauds over there.
Guest:Esther Williams swam in.
Guest:And so I get up on stage and I talk about how Milton is 89 and the wife's like 50.
Guest:And I do this analogy to Salman Rushdie who got married while he was in hiding three times because, you know, he's a guy.
Guest:The women, forget about.
Guest:Something like that.
Guest:And I get off and really a lot of people laughing and I get off and Steve, my husband says to me, well, everybody was laughing except Barbara Walters.
Guest:I said, well, I'm not going to work with her.
Guest:What do I give a shit?
Guest:She's a newswoman.
Guest:What do I care?
Guest:A few months later, they call me in, and then I got the job on The View.
Guest:She was watching.
Marc:She doesn't seem like a big laugher.
Guest:She can.
Guest:She can.
Marc:Okay, there you go.
Guest:Sometimes we call her the comedy removal service, you know?
Guest:The CRS has arrived.
Guest:But she's good to me.
Guest:She gave me the job.
Marc:Yeah, so you were the original crew.
Guest:I was, with Star Jones, Meredith Vieira, and Debbie Matanopoulos.
Marc:I don't remember her.
Guest:Debbie.
Guest:She was only on for a year and a half.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Then she went to the Insider, she got a nose job, and she became one of those girls.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Who's the other one, Vieira?
Guest:But she's a terrific girl.
Guest:Meredith Vieira.
Marc:She's amazing, because she's one of those people that she just lives on television.
Marc:She just always looks ... I don't know, there's people that are just television people.
Guest:Well, no, she has a real life.
Guest:No.
Guest:She has three children.
Marc:Right.
Guest:She has a husband who has MS.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Yeah, she's got a real life.
Marc:No, I know, but I mean, she just fits on TV.
Marc:She fits.
Marc:No matter, like, for ages.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:She has the right features and the right voice.
Guest:That's what I mean.
Guest:I have the wrong features and the wrong voice.
Marc:No, I like that, though.
Marc:That's what makes you, it's raw.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Like, you know what I mean?
Guest:Well, I'm not a newsreader, but if you're a newsreader, you have to have a certain nose.
Marc:But I like that energy, because Regis, too.
Marc:Regis is raw.
Marc:You know, like, but he's a broadcaster, but he's, like, all over the place.
Guest:The best.
Guest:He's great.
Guest:Let me tell you something about Regent.
Guest:That man had to get out there and make like Rumpelstiltskin every fucking day.
Guest:And one time I saw him at the gym.
Guest:Believe it or not, I was at the gym.
Guest:And I said to him, what are you going to talk about?
Guest:He goes, I got nothing.
Guest:And he goes on the air and I'm watching him and I hear him say to Kelly or whoever the hell was there at the time, I ran into Behar.
Guest:I said to her, I got nothing.
Guest:That was his story.
Marc:That's it.
Guest:That's brilliant.
Marc:Oh, no, I was a big fan.
Marc:With Kathie Lee, the two of them, I would watch it as a guilty pleasure because it was like real live TV.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:And she was nuts.
Guest:She was a little nutty.
Guest:She was Jewish and became a born again or something.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:She's Jewish.
Guest:Her name is Kathie Epstein or something.
Marc:No.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Stop it.
Guest:I'm not kidding.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah, she gave it up.
Marc:She gave up the Jew?
Guest:She's Christian now, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Wow, that's wild.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what's that other woman, Hoda?
Marc:Hoda, Hoda, yes.
Marc:Where did she come from?
Guest:What do you mean, where'd she come from?
Marc:I don't watch a lot of TV, but it's just one day the two of them are there.
Marc:And I'm like, how did that?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Who knows?
Marc:And I watch The View.
Marc:Sometimes I turn it on.
Marc:I'm like, who are all these new people?
Marc:I know.
Marc:Is this rotating thing?
Guest:I know.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It's true.
Marc:But you were there at the beginning.
Marc:And it was a great idea.
Marc:Got a lot of huge press.
Marc:And how long was that first run?
Guest:Um, well, it's 20 years on the air.
Marc:I know, but you say you, didn't you do it?
Guest:I went to like 16 or 17.
Guest:I got fired.
Marc:Why'd you get fired?
Guest:Who the hell knows?
Guest:They got rid of me.
Guest:Then they begged me to come back.
Marc:They got rid of you?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What was the, what was the thinking?
Guest:The excuse?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:They said that they had, were firing a Republican, so they had to fire a Democrat.
Guest:That's a lie.
Guest:That's bullshit.
Guest:What, the blonde girl?
Marc:Was it the blonde girl?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:What was her name?
Guest:Elizabeth Hasselbeck.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Is she still on?
Guest:No, she went to Fox and then she left Fox and I don't know where she is now.
Marc:So when they asked you to come back, did they sweeten the deal?
Guest:Yeah, I said, show me the money and I'll come back.
Guest:And also they said, we're going to talk politics and was going to be smart.
Guest:So I said, okay.
Guest:It wasn't that smart in the beginning, but it's gotten smarter.
Marc:So what about the friars?
Marc:You were hanging around all those old Jews for all that time?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I watched them drool in the luncheonette there.
Guest:Henny Youngman, he'd be in like a coma.
Marc:He turned a weird color towards the end, didn't he?
Guest:He'd be sitting there and just like his head down and you say, hi, Henny.
Guest:And he'd go like this, take my wife, please.
Marc:No, he did not.
Guest:He'd wake up saying that?
Guest:Yeah, out of a, yeah.
Guest:Like, start his material right away.
Marc:So, but you knew Freddie Roman.
Guest:Freddie Roman, yeah.
Marc:And all those guys were.
Guest:Freddie Roman, he had like this articulation.
Guest:He'd go, he'd say, you know, so-and-so has cancer.
Guest:Yeah, cancer.
Guest:On behalf of the members of the friars.
Guest:Like as if he all of a sudden went to elocution school in England.
Marc:Alan King.
Guest:Alan King, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, he was around, right?
Guest:I opened for Alan King a couple of times.
Guest:He would drink like a pint of booze back there.
Guest:Gin, right?
Guest:And then go out there and kill.
Marc:It's a weird thing when he learned the backstage habits of people.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That that's how he got into his place.
Guest:Also, Don Rickles.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I worked with Don Rickles.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And he'd be back there drinking.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:That's the only way I can get out there.
Marc:No kidding.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I've seen it before.
Marc:I was never one of those people, but I understand it because the same kind of nerves that you have and that I used to have.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They have it, too.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But if I did that, then I'd just be loopy.
Guest:Me, too.
Marc:Like, they know how to manage it.
Marc:Because I remember when I did Conan once and Alan King was on, that I looked in his dressing room before he got there because I was talking to Frank.
Marc:And they always bought the little Tanqueray.
Marc:It was a Tanqueray, a bottle of Tanqueray.
Marc:Because he needed it.
Guest:He needed it.
Guest:See, the problem with me is that I couldn't do drugs or alcohol.
Guest:I really was not capable of it.
Guest:So I had to go out there just with raw craziness and anxiety.
Marc:That's why it's hard for me.
Marc:And that's what serves you.
Guest:But I don't have a crutch.
Marc:You really don't?
Guest:I don't have a crutch.
Guest:I need a crutch.
Guest:I don't have one.
Guest:I never took Valium to go out there.
Guest:Susie Essman and I are on the same page, but we talk about this all the time.
Marc:I love her.
Guest:Neither one of us.
Guest:Of course, she's the best.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Neither one of you have.
Guest:No crutches.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you did some acting.
Guest:I did.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:I was in Hall Pass last couple of years ago, that movie by the Farrell Brothers.
Marc:Oh, yeah, Farrelly Brothers.
Guest:Yeah, Farrelly Brothers.
Marc:They use a lot of comics.
Marc:It's good.
Guest:Yeah, they're kind of fun.
Marc:And did you work with Woody Allen?
Guest:I've been in two things with Woody Allen.
Guest:Manhattan Murder Mystery.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And that last thing, he did A Crisis in Six Scenes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not funny.
Marc:Not funny?
Guest:I think it, nah.
Marc:Did you have aversion to working with him because of his history?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:Not really?
Guest:No, in fact, you know what?
Guest:No, I mean, you know, when I did Manhattan Murder Mystery, it was right in the middle of the whole thing.
Guest:Every day was the big headline about Soon-Yi on The Post.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And, I mean, it's a skeevy what he did.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's a skeeve.
Guest:Let's face facts.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, to sleep with the kid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then take pictures of her naked and leave them around them.
Guest:Mia Farrow had to find them.
Guest:That's disgusting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I don't think that he molested the kid, the little one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's a whole other perversion.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So that's where you fall with it.
Marc:You don't think he did that?
Guest:No, I don't think so.
Guest:It's not that I don't think it.
Guest:I talked to a social worker who said that she was in touch with the experts at Yale University who basically cleared it on that.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And Moses, one of his kids, said that he didn't.
Guest:So I don't know what the real truth of it is.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But was it interesting to work with him?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Because he's standing right there.
Marc:There's Woody Allen right there.
Guest:Just to watch the way he operates.
Guest:He only does one take.
Guest:He doesn't have this single shots.
Guest:He doesn't go into a lot of takes.
Guest:He only was talking to Diane Keaton on the set.
Guest:He ignored me completely, everybody.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Ignored everybody.
Guest:But this last time when I worked with him on Crisis in Six Scenes,
Guest:I gave him a joke.
Guest:I mean, I said to him, you know what, Woody, the way you did it last time was better.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really?
Guest:He said to me, I said, yeah.
Guest:He said, I'm going to do it the way you said.
Guest:And I thought, look at this.
Guest:I'm writing for Woody Allen.
Guest:Here's the funniest story about Woody Allen, and then we can wrap this up.
Guest:I mean, I feel like I'm living with you.
Okay.
Guest:so when I did the audition for Manhattan murder mystery I just had to get up there and he just looked at me he didn't even ask me to do anything yeah I was supposed to play Ron Rifkin's wife oh yeah Jewish yeah so the costume designer said to him you know she's not Jewish and what he said does she know this I didn't know that's very funny well thank you for talking Joy Behar it was a lot of fun this is a very interesting thing you got going here I appreciate it I'm so happy for you thank you yeah music music
Thank you.
Marc:Okay, that's it.
Marc:That's our show.
Marc:Don't forget to go to podswag.com slash punch to get an official signed copy of Waiting for the Punch.
Marc:That's P-O-D-S-W-A-G dot com slash punch.
Marc:Thank you, Joy Behar.
Marc:Thank you, people.
Marc:Be careful out there on Halloween.
Marc:No one comes to my house except my neighbor's kid because it's a big hill.
Marc:It's a big walk up to the garage.
Marc:But I'll play some...
Marc:song.
Marc:I'll play something that I've probably played before somewhere.
Marc:Alright, hold on.
Marc:Hold on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Boomer lives!