Episode 855 - Tracey Ullman
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuck in here is what the fuck nicks?
Marc:What the fuck a crats?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:My name is Mark Marin.
Marc:This is my podcast WTF.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:Happy Monday morning.
Marc:Good morning to you.
Marc:I don't know when you listen to this, but man, I hope you made it through the weekend.
Marc:I hope I hope you're hanging in today on the show.
Marc:Tracy Ullman is here.
Marc:Do you know Tracy Ullman?
Marc:Do you remember Tracy Ullman?
Marc:I shouldn't say it like that.
Marc:She's always been doing things.
Marc:She's got her second season of her HBO show, which is called Tracy Ullman Show, that premieres this Friday, October 20th.
Marc:She's done a lot of stuff, a lot of characters, a lot of things.
Marc:Insanely talented human being, that Tracy Ullman.
Marc:She's going to be here in just a bit.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:I got to get back into the sand pants.
Marc:It's time for sand pants.
Marc:I'm a little nervous about sand pants.
Marc:I'm shooting today.
Marc:Today is the first day of shooting for the second season of the gorgeous ladies of wrestling glow.
Marc:And, you know, I quit nicotine.
Marc:I got a lot of other things going on and quit coffee.
Marc:So feeling a little doughy, feeling a little thick.
Marc:And now I've got to get back into the sand pants.
Marc:I hope the sand pants fit because I don't need any extra discomfort on set.
Marc:First script looks good.
Marc:Don't know where the season is going, but there are some things that are set in motion right out of the gate.
Marc:And I'm excited.
Marc:I'm excited to be going back to work to do the TV show.
Marc:Because now that means I can just add more work.
Marc:I can do the TV show.
Marc:I can do the podcast.
Marc:I can do stand-up.
Marc:And I can have no time for anything else.
Marc:And I can just slowly, anxiously come unhinged.
Marc:Great plan, right?
Yeah.
Marc:We were just up in the Bay Area, Brendan McDonald, my producer and business partner, and myself.
Marc:We're up at Litquake.
Marc:We were in the Mission at the Alamo Drafthouse, which is, I think, the old Mission Theater.
Marc:uh doing an event a waiting for the punch event the book i think is uh doing well we it's it's hard to know with books but a lot of people came and a lot of people were excited a lot of people bought books both at the new york event and at the san francisco event we're going to try to fit in some more events i think we're going to do one in los angeles
Marc:And maybe some up north.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It's kind of tricky.
Marc:Because as I said, I'm shooting a TV show.
Marc:I'm doing a podcast.
Marc:I'm doing stand-up.
Marc:And I've got other things going on in my personal life that I'm not going to disclose at this point in time.
Marc:Everything's good.
Marc:Not a big problem other than the world is ending.
Marc:Shit is on fire.
Marc:Earths are quaking and people are coming unhinged.
Marc:Some days, man, I don't know what it is, but there's just a ripple through the culture where everyone's just fucking unhinged on the street.
Marc:Yesterday was one of those days where just people, I just, you walk down the street and you just hear someone yelling.
Marc:It's got that distant crazy person sound.
Marc:Just someone, you know, there's a certain pitch that occurs when the brain craps out that it's elevated.
Marc:And when you hear it outdoors, you're sort of like, what's going on over there?
Marc:What's happening wherever that guy's yelling?
Marc:So that just, I just, like sometimes it just seems like it's all over the place.
Yeah.
Marc:Excuse me, I'm drinking some tea.
Marc:So, yeah, but the events went great.
Marc:I hadn't been up in San Francisco in a while.
Marc:I went up, Sarah the Painter had a lovely opening at the Tony Meyer Gallery or Fine Arts Place.
Marc:Her gallery up there, we did that opening Thursday night.
Marc:It was lovely.
Marc:Met some painters, some artsy types, some poets, some thoughtful people.
Marc:And the paintings were spectacular.
Marc:Then the following night, Brendan and I do this event.
Marc:He talks to me, I talk to him on stage, and we take questions.
Marc:And that went great.
Marc:Had some nice food in San Francisco.
Marc:I've been to San Francisco a lot.
Marc:I lived there briefly.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I never know what is happening.
Marc:I always feel.
Marc:I started to realize this time.
Marc:that perhaps the Victorian architecture, so many Victorian structures that maybe it just feels fucking haunted to me.
Marc:I never really put it together.
Marc:There's a lot of chaos and riffraff and you feel like you're at the edge of sanity on most streets in San Francisco.
Marc:Not in a bad way.
Marc:There's not, it doesn't feel, there's a pretty,
Marc:bad homeless problem, and there are certain areas of the city that are nuts, but the entire city itself just feels like it's on edge.
Marc:And if you look at the way it's sort of structured, there's no grid, everything's cutting into the other street, and then the rolling hills of just homes, defying God to shake them down.
Marc:And there just seems to be something, there feels like a frenetic edge to San Francisco, even when you get out into the hippie regions, which are now on fire.
Marc:That was the other thing.
Marc:Very fucking devastating, very sad.
Marc:My heart goes out to anybody who's battling those fires or losing homes and friends in those fires.
Marc:It's just horrible.
Marc:And it's ongoing.
Marc:And you could feel it in the air.
Marc:You could taste it in the air in San Francisco.
Marc:You could barely breathe.
Marc:And it was just disturbing and heartbreaking what's going on up in Northern California with these wildfires.
Marc:Just completely out of control.
Marc:And it's really hard.
Marc:It gets harder day in, day out not to lump all this stuff together, not to think like, maybe do I need to read Revelations again?
Marc:Could it possibly?
Marc:I mean, am I off about this?
Marc:Am I being too practical by being atheist?
Marc:Is it happening?
Marc:I know there are people committed to it happening.
Marc:There's the resurgence in a big way of Christo fascism, which is, you know, always exciting.
Marc:has a lot of support not all the people not half of the people but enough to make it very uncomfortable uh the christo fascists they're coming up they're coming up and uh our president who is uh i think practically in most practical terms satan uh the the evangelicals have made a deal with satan to pursue their agenda and that uh
Marc:It's always been teeming.
Marc:It's always been under the surface.
Marc:It's always been there.
Marc:It's been there for years.
Marc:But now they got their guy and who would have known it would have been Satan.
Marc:That makes perfect sense.
Marc:So maybe I'm going to revisit Revelations because the fires, the earthquakes, the complete applied irony of the end of this governmental system.
Marc:Every day.
Marc:Every day.
Marc:Hard to transcend.
Marc:Sometimes I'm giddy with terror.
Marc:Giddy with terror.
Marc:That's the approach.
Marc:Just remember, at all times there's a...
Marc:A very powerful force and momentum of ideological people that are trying to put in place what needs to be put in place to secure their place in heaven and the kingdom of the hereafter.
Marc:So just know that the applied prophecy element is intact and that many people are working towards Armageddon.
Marc:And it's something they see needs to happen to fulfill their ideological and spiritual agenda.
Marc:Yeah, death is better than life to a lot of people.
Marc:They're looking forward to it, and they want to take a lot of us out with them.
Marc:So, terrified and giddy.
Marc:So I told you about San Francisco.
Marc:That went well.
Marc:Having a little problem.
Marc:You know, there's so many things you got to do to protect yourself.
Marc:And I'm talking on a technological basis.
Marc:I think I've out-secured myself.
Marc:I got very frustrated.
Marc:I try to keep my shit together.
Marc:I'm trying to keep a level head.
Marc:In general, I feel a little better without the caffeine, without the nicotine, other than being a little chubby.
Marc:I think my anxiety is limited.
Marc:But I had to get some line of credit approved.
Marc:I didn't realize I had to do it.
Marc:I had to sign up for something, and they had to go and check my credit.
Marc:And because Experian...
Marc:The credit agency, my identity was stolen a few years back.
Marc:Some of you remember that ordeal.
Marc:And because I filed a police report, which doesn't go anywhere, but you have filed it and you tell Experian that you did that.
Marc:And then they put an alert on your social security number for seven years, which is great.
Marc:But I had to use my social security number.
Marc:And they asked me these series of questions from Experian over the phone to authenticate.
Marc:And I couldn't answer them.
Marc:And these were questions designed to protect me.
Marc:And what they did was they protected me from me.
Marc:And now I got to go down to the place with a passport because I out secured myself.
Marc:I mean, passwords are one thing, but these questions were ridiculous.
Marc:I don't fucking remember my landline number from 20 years ago.
Marc:I barely remember the addresses of where I lived.
Marc:So I screwed myself, but my social security number is safe.
Marc:I can't even get to it.
Marc:Tremendous.
Marc:God, man, it's going to get crazy.
Marc:It's going to get crazy now.
Marc:Three months.
Marc:Three months.
Marc:I got to look at it like that.
Marc:You got to look at, you know, when you're entering a fucking cycle of insanity.
Marc:It's like, well, I'm out in three months.
Marc:Who the fuck knows what's going to happen in three months?
Marc:Anxious, anxious, terrified and giddy.
Marc:My guest today, Tracy Ullman, incredibly funny, amazing.
Marc:I don't know you would call her an impressionist because, you know, she does characters, she does impressions, but she commits, man.
Marc:The second season of her HBO show, which is called Tracy Ullman Show, premieres this Friday, October 20th.
Marc:This is me talking to the amazing Tracy Ullman.
.
Marc:So we established you're not a cat person, really.
Marc:I do like cats.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:My daughter has two cats, but they're just really mean to us.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:The whole family.
Guest:They like her, but they're just really... What do you expect from them?
Guest:One's completely mad and feral.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:She just sits underneath the sofa and... Where'd she get that one?
Guest:Kisses at people with sort of yellow eyes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the other one's called Edith and just loves Mabel and that's it and just...
Guest:You know, I go around there, I do the litter box, I feed her, I take her treats, and at the end of it, I just go, so bye, Edith.
Guest:And she goes, and jumps at me and slashes my chest.
Marc:You've got to fight.
Guest:There's not a lot in it for me.
Marc:I know, but you have to be patient.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Well, Mabel says that.
Guest:You know, when I go home, my dog is just great.
Marc:I know, but I don't trust that.
Marc:It's just sort of like, I get it.
Marc:You like me.
Yeah.
Marc:That much affection from anything I find disconcerting.
Marc:But, you know, that's me.
Marc:I got problems.
Guest:Yeah, you like to... Like a little struggle.
Guest:It's so obvious you would be a cat person, just having met you.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, you can spot cat people.
Guest:And all cats voted Brexit.
Guest:That's my theory.
Guest:They would.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:They want European cats coming over, taking their litter, taking their food.
Guest:They're all voted Brexit.
Marc:I will not accept that.
Marc:They did.
Marc:My cats are very progressive.
Guest:Look where you are, Eagle Rock cats.
Marc:Yeah, these are Eagle Rock cats.
Marc:They're progressive.
Marc:They're nervous.
Marc:They're inclusive, but it takes a little while.
Marc:Like, I introduced a black kitten, and I got two old cats.
Marc:You saw them on the bed.
Guest:They're very PC about the black kitten.
Marc:It took time.
Marc:It took time.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Well, there was a lot of skirmishes.
Guest:Skirmishes?
Marc:That's skirmishes.
Guest:You don't have the old coyote problem, because that's a problem in L.A.
Marc:I don't let them outside.
Marc:I'm not going to let them outside anymore.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Well, I did.
Guest:I got a cat for my son, Johnny, and it was, like, eating on the lawn.
Guest:You know, that's the problem here.
Guest:They just...
Marc:Yeah, one of them.
Marc:I do outdoor cats.
Guest:Eagles swoop down, take them off.
Guest:It's a dangerous place.
Marc:But it's also the way the world works, Tracy.
Marc:That's the ways of the wild.
Marc:I lost a feral cat recently to something.
Marc:Yeah, to the coyotes, yeah.
Marc:So, you know, I've been meditating on your career, and it's quite expansive.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Do you, I mean, do you look back, you're really, I mean, we're almost the same age and I have not accomplished anywhere near what you've done.
Marc:When you sit and think about it, do you ever sit and think about like, oh my God, I've been in show business forever.
Guest:40 years.
Guest:I started dancing when I was 16.
Yeah.
Marc:Isn't it incredible?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you've had you've had many shows with your name on them.
Marc:They always seem to involve your name.
Guest:Well, it's the easiest way for the TV guide.
Guest:And if you, you know, me and my husband always like, you know, own them.
Guest:So we wanted to sell them.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So just put your name on them.
Guest:Why are you going to try and be mysterious?
Guest:And you stayed married for a long time?
Guest:I know.
Guest:My lovely husband.
Guest:Yeah, I lost my husband.
Guest:He died four years ago, nearly.
Guest:But yeah, we were married 30 years.
Marc:And it was good?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:He was my fella.
Guest:He was great.
Guest:He made me laugh all the bloody time.
Guest:But I've got his two kids.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:His?
Guest:They're just.
Guest:Yeah, I've got my daughter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He looks so like him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How old is she?
Guest:My son is 26 in a minute, and he's like his dad.
Guest:He really makes me laugh.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:yeah and the daughter my daughter's 31 yeah mabel yeah with the cats yeah she doesn't make you laugh oh she's hilarious they're just fabulous are they in show business um no mabel when she was three somebody said uh do you want me in that an actress like your mommy and she said no i want to be something useful like a nurse she's very disparaging about show business um what does she do
Guest:She wanted to be a politician.
Guest:She worked at the Houses of Parliament for five years.
Marc:So they're both in Britain?
Guest:No, Johnny lives and works there.
Guest:He's working on James Corden's show right now.
Guest:He's helping out on that.
Marc:James has been in here.
Marc:I've been on his show.
Marc:He's an excitable fella.
Guest:Excitable.
Guest:He's got a lot of energy.
Guest:He does.
Guest:He's got big plans for a British boy.
Guest:He's very confident.
Guest:But he's been...
Marc:He's doing all right, I guess, in that time spot.
Guest:He's been very good to my son.
Guest:Yeah, he is.
Guest:He's come over and he's done it.
Marc:That car karaoke thing, that's the star of that show.
Guest:That's a very smart premise, isn't it?
Marc:It is.
Marc:It's a spin-off.
Marc:It's very entertaining.
Guest:It's so great.
Guest:He gets people to be totally natural and admit stuff and talk to him in a way they never would in a couch interview format.
Marc:In the car, you mean, or on his show?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, there's something sweet about people singing.
Marc:It's lovely.
Guest:Yeah, and Elton John, the best interview I'd seen him give in a long time.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I think he's really learnt how to listen to people.
Marc:Did you know him in England?
Guest:No, not really.
Guest:I was in Into the Woods, the movie.
Guest:I was a little... I had a part in that and we sort of crossed paths in that.
Marc:But you didn't know him as a TV presenter?
Marc:Or what was he?
Guest:He was an actor, wasn't he?
Guest:He was an actor, yeah.
Guest:I remember seeing him in the History Boys at the National and in One Man, Two Governors, which I think really attracted the attention for him to CBS.
Marc:But your daughter's in politics.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, she was.
Guest:She's really passionate about politics.
Guest:Always was.
Guest:I took her to the House of Commons.
Marc:Yeah, and that was it?
Marc:Planted the seed?
Guest:She was like seven, and she looked at the House of Lords and the House of Commons and said, I want to be in there with the real people.
Guest:With the real people?
Guest:She pointed to the House of Commons.
Guest:Oh, yes.
Guest:She was always saying very profound things on Mabel.
Marc:And the like, cause I watch, I watch a bit of you doing Theresa May and like, and I noticed something in watching a newer thing, like all the way through your ability to, to mock and humanize simultaneously is the real gift, isn't it?
Guest:And I'm not nasty actually.
Guest:I do like people.
Guest:I can't, it was a tough time to impersonate Theresa May.
Marc:But you know, but you made her sympathetic somehow.
Yeah.
Marc:And that's not a bad thing.
Guest:She's like a, because I know that sort of English woman so well, you know, sort of talks like that, you know, and it's all very, well, let's just get on, shall we?
Guest:And she's a vicar's daughter from Maidenhead.
Guest:And I know exactly where she's from.
Guest:And my sister's the same age as her and we grew up near her.
Guest:And you couldn't be more different, you know, me or Theresa May.
Yeah.
Guest:And, yeah, she's got a bit of a hunchback.
Guest:She looks like a sort of... She looks like if Nosferatu and Oscar Wilde had a child.
Guest:She looks like the vicar from the Barchester Chronicles, a Trollope novel.
Guest:She's just a Dickensian-looking... I mean, it's... But...
Guest:The man that plays my husband in it is Philip.
Guest:He was just wonderful.
Guest:We had a wonderful day being them.
Guest:Knowing how in pain she must be right now.
Guest:We shot it just after the election and that terrible Grenfell fire.
Guest:And I thought, can I do this?
Guest:There's so much suffering this woman can go through.
Guest:And then Tracey Ullman impersonates her in prime time.
Guest:It's like, leave her alone, you know?
Guest:But then we did it and it was just fabulous fun and the nation needed it.
Marc:The nation needed it.
Marc:You showed up.
Marc:See, like as an American who's relatively ignorant or at least disconnected from the nuances of British politics, I don't know what you're all going through over there.
Marc:rough i mean it's brexit was for me it was just awful because at that moment you realized that you were surrounded and did not know necessarily uh the disposition or ignorance or or contempt of your fellow british people
Guest:Yeah, it was just a bad mistake for David Cameron to call a referendum.
Guest:He didn't need to do it.
Guest:It was to, you know, silence his back benches and all those reasons.
Guest:And it was, I mean, I love being a European, you know, since, you know, we've been in Europe.
Guest:It's like, I don't know.
Guest:I mean, I remember it before we went into Europe.
Guest:It was pretty crappy.
Guest:We ate spotted dick and...
Guest:Things like that.
Guest:What is spotted dick?
Guest:Oh, it's a sponge pudding with raisins in it.
Guest:And it's just a great thing to say.
Marc:Would you like some spotted dick?
Guest:I'm so scared we might go back to our old culinary habits in England.
Guest:That's my concern.
Guest:I mean, it's been great.
Guest:The Italians and the French there, they bring in all the great food.
Guest:The food level in England went up.
Guest:And we can all get on that tunnel and go to France for lunch.
Marc:You think, oh, that's going to go away?
Yeah.
Guest:uh they're they're pissed off with us i mean it's it's it's odd it's a weird feeling psychologically especially in london you know the big city and but you know yeah it's i mean it's the same as here you know realize then i i'm an american too and i came home to vote in november and i got that brexit gut about eight o'clock i thought this is not going well i thought something bizarre is going to happen here too when i saw the brexit vote that was when i realized like oh this guy can win
Guest:Yeah, did you?
Marc:I did, sort of.
Marc:I likened it to that scene in Godfather 2 where Michael Corleone sees the guy blow himself up and he says to Lee Strasberg, he says, I saw this guy blow himself up in Strasberg.
Marc:He goes, what does that mean to you?
Marc:He said, it means they could win.
Marc:Like there's a moment there globally where you're like, the momentum is there.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So what's happening there now?
Marc:What's going to is it is it just stalled?
Guest:Tons of negotiations.
Guest:And, you know, as you know, Theresa May called an election.
Guest:And that was disastrous.
Marc:Do you think it's going to not go through?
Guest:I hope not.
Guest:I mean, I think it'll dissolve into a mess.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I mean, I think we'll be begging him to come back in five years.
Marc:Right, they'll just stop talking about it and hope it goes away.
Guest:And then all those flats they've built for all those people that work in the city.
Guest:You know, you see those big hoardings everywhere.
Guest:And it's always young people with Burberry bags on bicycles waving.
Guest:They're always like young professionals coming to London, buying lots of flats and shopping a lot and drinking organic coffee.
Guest:They ain't going to come anymore.
Guest:And once our financial services stuff starts to collapse in the city, everyone's going to really panic.
Yeah.
Guest:So I don't know.
Guest:It's not going well, Mark.
Marc:Yeah, and are you living there full time now?
Guest:Pretty much, yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:But are there still good things?
Marc:Because I was just there, and I don't know a lot about it, but I always feel when I'm in England, or when I'm in London, which I'm not there for that long ever, that like...
Marc:This place has been here a long time.
Marc:It's seen a lot of stuff, good and bad.
Marc:And it just seems like the people are pretty tough about it.
Marc:And then it doesn't feel like, I didn't feel, but then again, I was just going on, you know, whatever psychic vibe I was getting.
Guest:Where do you stay when you come into London?
Marc:I was trying to remember.
Marc:I stayed right next to the big park there, to Hyde Park in a fancy hotel that Netflix put me up there.
Marc:Well, that's it.
Guest:You see her in the center, in the fancy hotel.
Guest:You want to go back to Luton where they have darts tournaments and vote Brexit.
Guest:You're staying in the nice bits.
Guest:See, you go over there and you're in the bubble.
Guest:We're here, we're in a bubble.
Guest:You go out, you know, my daughter having worked in politics for years, you know, she was out in the rest of the country.
Guest:She could see it coming.
Guest:You know, it's like we do get trapped in these big centres.
Marc:I only had three days.
Marc:I should have made some plans to go out to see a dart tournament.
Guest:I love when I see Americans, they go, how many kilometers is it?
Guest:It's like, guys, don't say kilometers.
Guest:But where'd you grow up?
Guest:I grew up just outside in the countryside, really, the Greenbelt area around London.
Guest:Gymkhana's ponies.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I'm not a Cockney or, you know, a real Londoner, actually.
Marc:But you were born in where?
Marc:You were born in London.
Guest:Like Slough.
Guest:Do you know where they set the office, the original Ricky Gervais office?
Guest:You know that roundabout you see at the beginning of the show?
Guest:They knocked my father's shop down to put up that piece of 60s crap.
Guest:So I was like, you know, from like 14 miles outside London.
Marc:Would it be considered like a suburb of London?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what kind of shop did your dad have there?
Guest:He did everything.
Guest:He was at Dunkirk, and he was in the Polish army, and he came to London, and he never went back after the war, and he was a lawyer and an interpreter, and he set up a big shop in London for all the Poles that came and made their lives there, and you wanted furniture, you went to John, you wanted...
Guest:A wife, you went to John.
Guest:You wanted a Beatles suit, you went to John.
Marc:He was the Polish conduit to English culture.
Guest:Yeah, he was fantastic.
Marc:So he was probably one of those guys that was sort of like the mayor, in a way, of that community.
Marc:Like everybody knew him.
Guest:Exactly, yeah.
Guest:That's what my dad did.
Marc:And he became a lawyer as well?
Marc:He was a lawyer from Poland.
Marc:So he helped with legal advice.
Guest:Yeah, everything.
Guest:Yeah, he'd like...
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And so the office that they leveled was his law office?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, we had like an office.
Guest:It was a shop.
Guest:It was everything.
Guest:It had the Beatles suits in there.
Guest:You want Winky?
Guest:You want Winky Pickles?
Guest:You go to John.
Guest:You know, he had everything in there.
Guest:He'd make me dance on the counter for the customers, you know.
Guest:My Tracy, she's so talented.
Guest:She's a star.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he sold suits and he used to let a couple of nutty guys that had been in the desert rats who had gone a bit crazy with the sun live in the back room.
Guest:What?
Marc:He had desert rats in the back room?
Guest:The guys that had been in the army, the Polish army there.
Guest:I remember this man, Mr. Dugos, who was completely crazy.
Guest:He felt sorry for me to let him live in the back room.
Guest:And as kids, we would always be talking to Mr. Dugos.
Guest:He was completely mad.
Guest:So you grew up with characters.
Guest:Yeah, mad people.
Marc:That's sweet.
Guest:It's sort of sweet, yes.
Marc:My grandfather owned a hardware store.
Marc:There was always people there.
Marc:It never just seemed to function as a place where people bought appliances.
Marc:They needed advice.
Marc:They needed other things.
Guest:Yeah, that was how I remember, yeah, as a kid with my dad, yeah.
Marc:And how long was he around?
Guest:Well, he died when I was six.
Guest:And my mom.
Guest:I know.
Marc:That's so young.
Guest:Yeah, I was.
Marc:What happened?
Guest:He had a heart attack, heart problems.
Guest:Then my mom kind of didn't speak Polish or couldn't carry on with the whole business.
Guest:And so she, you know.
Guest:Where was she from?
Guest:She was a Londoner.
Guest:She was a South London girl.
Marc:She no longer could be the conduit to the Polish community?
Guest:No, she couldn't be the conduit.
Guest:No, she never spoke the language well enough.
Guest:And then where'd you end up?
Guest:Our fortunes came and went and my mum did various things and worked in various places and...
Guest:odd jobs yeah she'd work in laboratories like the tested food and weird stuff you know and bring food home and we'd be we'd be eating it with you know she thought it was all right one night she brought a load of this corned beef home and me and my sister had been eating it you know for like three days and then she went oh girls don't eat that it's unfit for human consumption I've just found out we're like it's a bit late now mom yeah
Marc:What she just brought it home thinking like, well, they don't need it.
Guest:Yeah, she would do things like that.
Guest:She's crazy too.
Guest:She's hilarious.
Marc:And is she still around?
Marc:No.
Marc:No, I'm an orphan now.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:It happened late though.
Guest:Yeah, she lived a lot longer.
Marc:So when did you start doing the show business?
Guest:I used to get on my mother's windowsill when my dad died and do the Tracy Ullman show.
Guest:I used to pull the curtains across.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:The original Tracy Ullman show?
Guest:That was the original Tracy Ullman show.
Guest:Started in my mother's bedroom.
Marc:And she was sad.
Guest:She was on the bed.
Guest:She would sit on the bed and I would just want to cheer her up and I would impersonate people.
Guest:And put on a show and wear her negligees.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:I'd pretend I was Edith Piaf and sing in pretend French.
Guest:She'd go, oh, isn't it amazing?
Guest:She's never learned.
Guest:She can speak another language.
Guest:She said a load of stupid things.
Guest:I used to act and I used to pretend I was in a documentary and my husband was in prison and I had two kids and I was being beaten up and I used to do all dramatic stuff.
Marc:Where'd you get that information?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Ken Loach films.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Did you have siblings?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My older sister, Patty, who it was her show originally.
Guest:So I'm a spinoff for her show.
Guest:She always says, listen, it was the Patty Allman show.
Guest:And I let you have a shot on the show.
Guest:And then you spun off.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What for your whole life was a spinoff of your sister's show.
Marc:What does she do?
Marc:um paddy lives here she's lived here for a long long time she's a accountant and a personal assistant she worked in a bank and stuff so that's interesting that you started entertaining because your mom was sad yeah yeah yeah i know that feeling my dad was sort of a depressive and you just want to try to help him out get a little chuckle it's very rewarding yeah to get the your parent to laugh
Guest:It really was, yeah.
Guest:And that was my fun, too, to put on a show.
Guest:Lots of kids like putting on shows, and so I did.
Marc:And you just always, the impersonations were just a natural thing?
Guest:Well, I'd impersonate people in our village.
Guest:Like, there was a woman that lived opposite us called Annie Cox, and she'd lost her fiancé in the First World War.
Guest:And she wore Wellington boots, rubber boots, and a woollen hat, and her nose dripped.
Yeah.
Guest:Little bit, always a little drip.
Guest:Had a lot of cats, by the way, Mark.
Guest:She was a cat person.
Guest:With her cats.
Guest:Of course, you could let them out in England.
Guest:There wasn't a bloody great coyote going to eat from there.
Guest:Or hawks.
Guest:No, no, hawks.
Guest:This was Burnham in the 60s.
Guest:And I would impersonate her.
Guest:And of course, my family knew who she was.
Guest:It would just make them weep with laughter.
Guest:There were no Wellington boots.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:So it was always people I knew and people I sort of were poignant to me.
Guest:Like Annie Cox was sad.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She lived in a little house with no electricity.
Guest:And, you know, her fiance had died, as I said.
Guest:And she was just like this eternal virgin.
Marc:But you were never being mean.
Guest:No.
Guest:I just loved her.
Marc:That's interesting, because I don't know if I thought about it as clearly as I did when I was watching some of your stuff again, that there's a difference between making fun of somebody and honoring them, you know, in a way.
Guest:Yeah, I do.
Guest:If I've ever gotten too mean, it's not been me, and I've...
Guest:Push back.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I'm not doing stand up.
Guest:I'm not social.
Guest:I mean, someone called me a social satirist.
Guest:That's wonderful.
Guest:But I don't I really am a character actress, you know, and I'm.
Guest:that can, you know, it makes people laugh some of the things I do.
Guest:I'm not a comedian.
Guest:I'm not a comic.
Guest:I'm not, that's not what I do.
Marc:But do you improvise within these characters?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I love doing that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So, I mean, that, you know, you do have, you know, you're not just an actress.
Marc:You're an improvisate, you know.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, my big breakthrough was when I was 21 and I did an improvised play at the Royal Court in London.
Guest:And it was just brilliant to be able to make up a play in a few weeks.
Guest:And that's what I love doing.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:What was that about?
Guest:It was like about club acts in England.
Guest:We had to... The four of us were... We had to improvise over 14 weeks to just figure out, you know, club acts that were back in their digs at night talking.
Guest:And it was... I know it sounds pretty dull, but it was really great.
Guest:It was a big hit.
Guest:Who were the club acts?
Guest:I was like a singer.
Guest:I was a born-again Christian singer called Beverly in sparkly frocks.
Guest:And I used to get home and pray with everybody.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You've done a lot of Christian characters.
Marc:Have I?
Marc:Well, you've done a few.
Marc:I saw a fairly recent one.
Marc:The one with the niece, the no homo thing.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:That was like birdie godsend.
Guest:That was a while ago.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Fanatics are fun to do impressions of.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yes, they are.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Sometimes, like, I don't envy them, but, like, the way they're so sure.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I wish I was.
Guest:Right?
Guest:I know.
Marc:I mean, I guess that's the big perk of having very narrow-minded beliefs and, you know.
Marc:It's easier maybe, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So what happens after that, the royal court thing?
Marc:Let's go through it.
Guest:Then I got poached to do, like, a poached.
Guest:I mean, I just got asked to do a BBC sketch show with a couple of guys, and...
Guest:I remember saying, oh, I don't know if I could do that.
Guest:You know, women are always just the butt of sexual jokes and I haven't got big tits and I'm not blonde and I, you know, because all there was in England at that time really was like Benny Hill.
Marc:You got it, yeah.
Guest:Oh, big tits.
Guest:Oh, nurse.
Guest:Oh, Benny's pinching her bum.
Guest:Oh, mister.
Guest:It was that.
Guest:It was really always that.
Guest:They had one girl in it, in their troupe, called Carol, somebody who always played the sexy nurse.
Guest:And there were no women.
Guest:It wasn't like America where you had Gilda Radner and Carol Burnett and Lucille Ball.
Guest:And, you know, we were very behind.
Marc:But you had great women stage actresses, right?
Marc:Yes, of course.
Guest:That's what I wanted to be.
Guest:I mean, I was...
Guest:Peggy Ashcroft and Judi Dench and Maggie Smith, they are who I aspire to be.
Guest:When I'm older, oh my goodness, they're the best.
Guest:But as comedy shows, there was no sitcom really or a variety show with a woman heading it.
Guest:No.
Marc:So you felt like hemmed in, you couldn't do anything?
Guest:No.
Guest:And I thought, I don't want to be Benny Hill girl.
Guest:But this show that I ended up doing after the theatre show was great.
Guest:And the producer was a guy called Paul Jackson who... He'd figured out that there was a lot of young people in London at that time, like Dawn French and Jennifer Saunders...
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Hugh Laurie and Stephen Fry and, you know, the comic strip.
Guest:And he realized there was this whole wave of younger comedians and that, you know, weren't going to fit these TV formats.
Marc:What year was this?
Guest:This was like the early 80s.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:God, it lasted that long.
Guest:He was great.
Guest:And he did the young ones, you know, and he...
Guest:figured out you know that to let us do what we could do yes he was definitely a new wave Paul and he was he was at the BBC but he you know he just said to all the old farts at the BBC listen we're going to try something very new in 1981 yeah yeah and like was Stuart Lee around then too yeah Stuart was yeah that was his first like when he started doing before he quit and then came back yeah he did he like did stand up and he got sick of the audiences and then he's like I'm done and then he came back he's brilliant
Guest:And Alexi Sale and Rick Mayle.
Guest:But they were very much stand-up.
Guest:I remember going to see them.
Guest:I mean, I saw Dawn and Jennifer, because they were women.
Guest:They did a team thing.
Guest:Oh, they were amazing.
Guest:I saw them at this club in Soho, and I just thought, oh, my God, this is...
Guest:This is the future.
Guest:They came on and pretended to be like American girls talking about Tam O'Shanners and stuff.
Guest:And they were just so fresh and weird and wonderful.
Guest:And they were women.
Guest:They were really funny.
Guest:So I got very excited by them.
Marc:And Hugh Laurie, was he in a team too?
Guest:Yeah, Hugh and Stephen used to have a… Stephen Fry?
Guest:I saw him.
Guest:Yeah, they had an act together.
Marc:Like, I wish I knew, like, I wish I knew more about, like, I always say this when I talk to British performers, that, like, I don't know enough, I don't know the history of it.
Marc:I didn't grow up with it.
Marc:But everyone talks about, like, certainly Stephen Fry with such reverence.
Marc:Like, he's a genius.
Marc:And I'm sure he is, but I gotta watch that stuff.
Marc:What was...
Guest:Well, that was their club act together, their stand-up.
Guest:I don't think there's any record of that.
Guest:Maybe it is on their bit of Fry and Laurie, I'm not sure.
Guest:But he was in that tradition of the real genius generation before was Peter Cook.
Marc:Oh, yeah, right, right, right.
Marc:Peter Cook and Dudley Moore.
Guest:Peter Cook was a genius.
Guest:I mean, he could write.
Guest:He was just, you know, in the Beyond the Fringe.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:With Alan Bennett and Peter Cook.
Guest:I mean, it was, you know...
Marc:Where does Rowan Atkinson fit into everything?
Guest:He was like just before me, a couple of years before they did a program called Not the Nine O'Clock News.
Guest:And that was Rowan and Mel Smith.
Guest:And it was really, really funny.
Guest:But we never had our own sort of Saturday night live.
Guest:See, what I did when I first came to America was I didn't work straight away.
Guest:James Brooks, bless him.
Guest:He told me, he said, you can have a baby and all that and then we'll do a show.
Guest:He said, go to the Museum of Broadcasting and watch all the American stuff from the late 40s, 50s and get a grounding.
Guest:So I watched your show of shows and Imogene Coker and all those Ernie Kovacs and I watched all those shows that had been...
Guest:you know, formats that had come from England and vice versa.
Guest:I learned so much.
Guest:I used to sit there every day.
Marc:It must have blown your mind.
Marc:It was amazing.
Guest:And that's when I, as I say, I realized how incredible the women.
Marc:And James Brooks told you to do that.
Marc:He did.
Marc:But before that, you had this whole, like, you did a show with French and Saunders, right?
Guest:I did, briefly, yeah.
Marc:Was it three of you?
Guest:It was called Girls on Top, and it was an American girl called Ruby Wax, and it was like the female young ones, because the young ones was, you know, that Rick Mayall and Alexi said.
Marc:And how long did that last?
Guest:I just did a year, because I was having a baby.
Guest:You were already married?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was married, like, I was 20, early 20s.
Marc:How did you meet your husband?
Guest:He was a producer on a show.
Marc:Which show?
Guest:Oh, he, not that one.
Guest:He was, I used to see his name a lot on the credits.
Guest:I think, oh, that guy does a lot of stuff.
Guest:And he... And then he saw me on television and just did that classic, I'm going to marry that girl.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Which is hilarious.
Marc:What did he see you on?
Marc:That one made the impression.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:You don't remember?
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:He just said he was sitting in his flat.
Guest:He used to live in America, though, in the 70s.
Guest:He'd gone over.
Marc:Oh, the crazy 70s?
Marc:He was in Hollywood in the crazy 70s?
Marc:He had all the good stories?
Guest:He had all the parties with Harry Nielsen and Peter Cook and Robin Williams.
Guest:He bought Spielberg's old...
Guest:house up on lookout mountain a tiny little house and this before you met him before he met me oh he was a bugger he was always playboy bunny girl yeah crap and he he was one of those bachelors that eventually you know realized it was time to settle down yeah he'd go back to england yeah and as his friend he says yeah you stopped him drinking smoking doing drugs you basically ruined alan's life
Guest:But he was ready to be ruined.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But where does the big music career fit in?
Guest:Oh, blimey.
Guest:See, I've done everything, haven't I?
Marc:Like, oh, yeah.
Guest:You have done everything.
Guest:I got to be so... This sketch show that I did that turned out to be really good because Paul Jackson let us do modern stuff and didn't make me be the butt of a section joke.
Guest:Which one?
Guest:The one with the two guys?
Guest:It was called Three of a Kind at the BBC with a fabulous black comedian called Lenny Henry.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And another guy called David Copperfield.
Guest:And it kind of worked.
Guest:It became a Saturday night show.
Guest:And I could... So I was like the it girl for six months.
Marc:It was popular?
Guest:Six months.
Guest:Very popular.
Marc:What year was that?
Marc:82?
Marc:81, 82.
Guest:And I remember just sitting in a hairdresser's one day getting my...
Guest:Orange extensions put on my hair because that's where Boy George used to go.
Guest:And a woman leant over and said, do you want to make a record?
Guest:My husband has a record label called Stiff.
Guest:And she was wearing a T-shirt that said, if it ain't stiff, it ain't worth a fuck.
Guest:And I said, if I can get one of those T-shirts, I absolutely will.
Marc:And they had all the, like, punk rock guys.
Marc:Oh, man, it was the coolest label.
Marc:Why they took me on?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It was mad.
Guest:I mean, it was the coolest label.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They had, like, everybody for a minute.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I had Nick Lowe and Rock Pile doing my backing tracks of Madness.
Marc:You did?
Guest:He'd write me a song, you know.
Marc:I had Nick Lowe in here.
Marc:I loved it.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:Rockpile, I loved Rockpile.
Marc:Dave Edmonds, yeah.
Marc:Dave Edmonds, great guitar player.
Guest:And they had Devo in America and Lena Lovitch and Elvis Costello and just the greatest.
Guest:It was really a cool label.
Marc:That was the time.
Guest:And I was a sort of like commercial pop wing for a second.
Guest:And I had a lot of hits and I was never the real deal.
Marc:But I mean, but did someone invent you?
Marc:I mean, were you, who was writing the songs?
Marc:What was the idea?
Guest:Kirstie McCall, the late, great Kirstie McCall, who wrote amazing songs for herself.
Guest:And I just loved her.
Guest:And she'd written They Don't Know, a really wonderful song, and she'd released it, and it had done pretty well.
Guest:But I just was obsessed with doing it again.
Guest:And then because I was me and I was, you know, I like to laugh and I like dressing up, I would just made it all kind of faux early 60s fun.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I'd put on beehives and purple miniskirts and do crazy videos.
Guest:Old style songs.
Guest:People all remember I had Paul McCartney in my video because I knew him and it was cool and I got him to...
Guest:sit in a car with me and so i would i had you know kirsty was the real deal you know sit there with the guitar brilliant i but i sort of flashed it all up a bit yeah and it but it worked and uh and you had like i had great fun for a couple of years doing a couple of hit records songs i did yeah i had some really big hits in europe and then i had a big hit here with they don't know oh yeah yeah that's her top 10 hit so she made some money yeah chrysalis did yeah
Marc:Paul McCartney, how long have you been friends with him?
Marc:How does that happen?
Guest:Oh, a long time.
Guest:Well, at that time as well, I did a little part in his movie he did called Give My Regards to Broad Street, which is just kind of madness.
Guest:It went on for a couple of years.
Marc:He knew you from the TV show?
Guest:Yeah, we just got to be friendly, Linda and him.
Guest:It was just magic.
Guest:I'd been to a Beatles concert when I was five.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And I remember sobbing.
Guest:My mum got tickets.
Guest:I remember sobbing and being so overwhelmed with feelings a five-year-old should never have.
Guest:And if somebody had said to me, then don't worry, Tracy, you'll grow up and you'll get to meet Paul and you'll get to kiss him, actually, in a film.
Guest:And I would have been like...
Guest:be so silly i think i'm going to explode but you saw them when they were wearing matching suits and everything yeah people were throwing gonks at the stage and no one could hear them oh they were like stuffed toys they were called gonks oh okay yeah and i remember screaming and screaming and your mother was a fan oh well she that's why she got the bloody ticket she loved them but you can remember it
Guest:I remember that constant just being very frightened, actually.
Marc:Of what was happening?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, it was mad.
Guest:I was five.
Guest:It was really frightening, Mark.
Guest:I went with my boyfriend, Adam Wood.
Guest:I think he was younger than me.
Guest:He was like four.
Guest:He wet himself.
Guest:He was ridiculous.
Guest:He took these two little small children.
Marc:Just screaming girls.
Marc:It was horrible.
Marc:I can't imagine what...
Marc:Because you really watch some of the footage of the Stones and any of those, and the Beatles too, like it was just something just unleashed.
Marc:Like it had never been unleashed before.
Marc:Just young girls going crazy.
Guest:going crazy and there they are up on stage with two amps the size of a four guys with the size of a kellogg's cornflakes box you know no one can hear them you've got distressed five-year-olds in the front row you know it was did you tell paul about it yeah i told him
Marc:Do you remember the show?
Guest:No, but I did get to meet him.
Guest:He's a lovely fellow and he's always been bumping to him all my life.
Guest:I just feel privileged to know him and he's lovely.
Guest:He gave Johnny, my son, a plectrum when he was like three.
Guest:A what?
Guest:A plectrum for a guitar.
Guest:Johnny plays guitar now.
Guest:He's just a lovely man.
Guest:Driving up to your house today, it's a nice area here and there's those little bits that I forgot.
Guest:There's still like an ad in a window with the Beatles in four soda bottles.
Guest:No.
Guest:Yeah, it is.
Guest:I'm like, wow, it's really gone back in time, this area.
Marc:That must be at a hipster store.
Guest:It's not.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Because no way hipster around here, Mark.
Marc:It is.
Marc:It's gotten a little hipster.
Marc:It has.
Marc:You think?
Marc:I don't know where you came in.
Marc:Did you come in a time machine?
Marc:Maybe the street that you were on, it was from 1967.
Marc:So from music, was there a point where you're like, I can't do this?
Guest:I mean, I was just lip syncing my way around Europe.
Guest:I used to sing into a hairbrush for a laugh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember being on some dumb pop show in Holland, and they would just sort of introduce me, going, hello, Theresa Oldman's here, and she's crazy.
Guest:You know, that sort of, you know, when you feel just stupid, they go, Theresa Oldman, hello.
Guest:You think, oh, I just feel so stupid.
Guest:I remember standing there in my purple miniskirt, and then he...
Guest:And then it was live TV, and then they were doing shock tactics, and they put a live rat on my shoulder.
Guest:And I just thought, and I just stared this guy down.
Guest:I thought, you idiot.
Guest:I ain't doing this anymore.
Marc:This is it.
Marc:You just killed my career.
Marc:It's your fault.
Marc:You ruined the fun for everybody.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You twit.
Marc:But your husband, he was a TV producer, so what did he think of it from the beginning?
Guest:He's always said about me, she's a nice little earner, my Trace.
Guest:That's why he stopped partying.
Guest:He was Peter Cook's best friend.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:And he made Peter Cook laugh.
Guest:I mean, my husband, he was just hilarious.
Guest:He was brilliant.
Marc:So you knew Peter Cook, too?
Guest:A little briefly, yeah.
Guest:He used to come and stay with my husband.
Guest:He was really funny.
Guest:He loved what I did.
Guest:He was my biggest fan.
Guest:And because of him, I got to do a lot of shows that we produced and distributed.
Guest:He raised the money for them so we could always... I still own the catalogue now, all the shows we did together.
Guest:We thought we were the Desilu of London all the time.
Marc:Sounds like you were.
Marc:Kind of.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But did he think the music was some sort of weird kind of like, she's got to get this out of her system.
Guest:He said he liked a couple of the early ones.
Guest:And then I remember I had to sing.
Guest:Oh, the worst thing, Mark.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They brought me to do The Tonight Show in L.A.
Guest:and with Carson.
Guest:yeah oh boy i remember that yeah i remember the rainbow colored curtains and then i thought oh i'll do my lip syncing i'll do my little you know they don't know about us and they said well this is doc severinson remember the band on the tonight show and you're gonna sing live yeah and uh doc had the musicians work up a version oh boy it was like a scoop do it
Guest:So I went on with cars.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I thought I could just do my, you know, Kirstie McCauley version.
Guest:I had to sing it like in this jazz, you know, Doc Severinsen style.
Guest:Did you pull it off?
Guest:No, it was appalling.
Guest:Even my husband, who was completely tone deaf, said I sounded like a wounded horse.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:It was probably the most humiliating, dreadful song.
Guest:experience of my life.
Marc:So between that and the Holland experience, it was over.
Guest:Oh, I was so done with the pop songs.
Marc:Was Johnny nice to you?
Guest:He was terrible to me.
Guest:He looked at me with his cold little... He had like blue eyes, like little bird's eggs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he just said to me, ah, so you do a poetry show in England.
Guest:Totally something totally, totally wrong.
Guest:And I went, no.
Guest:And then I found that my tongue had stuck to the roof of my mouth.
Guest:It was the most awful experience.
Guest:I did get to go back on the show a few years later on Thanksgiving night with George Burns and Johnny and had the most wonderful time.
Guest:And that sort of vindication where I got to say to him, you are horrible to me, Johnny.
Guest:You asked me if I did a poetry show and I felt so stupid.
Guest:And then we had a wonderful time.
Guest:So it went from being the worst thing ever to one of the nicest things.
Marc:And he remembered?
Yeah.
Guest:No, probably not.
Marc:But he took it.
Guest:And I made fun of Doc Severins and I did the whole thing.
Marc:And George Burns was 110.
Guest:He went on first and I remember him coming to my dressing room and saying, hello, it was George, a big cigar.
Guest:I'm really old, so I'm not going to be on when you come on because I might die.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He said something like that.
Guest:And I went, oh, I would hate that for you to die beside me.
Guest:George went, no, so I'll be in my little car going home.
Guest:I said, don't you worry.
Guest:So he did tell me he was too old and couldn't stay on for my bit.
Marc:That is classy that he knew enough to know that he didn't want you to feel like it was impolite.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I love that he told me that.
Marc:Because everyone needs to sit out there together.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He couldn't.
Guest:I didn't blame him.
Marc:He didn't know who I was.
Marc:But still very polite.
Marc:It was lovely.
Marc:So when do you start to, how does the first manifestation of the show happen?
Guest:The American shows.
Guest:I came to America to marry my husband.
Guest:We got married.
Marc:The first one was the Tracy Allman show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I met my agent out here at the time, a lady called Martha Luttrell at ICM.
Guest:She did that thing where we'll start at the top.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You can go and see this man called Jim Brooks, and then we'll go down from there, and we'll see if he, you know.
Guest:Luckily, he wanted to do a show with me.
Guest:I just got really, really lucky.
Marc:But Jim Brooks, like, at that time, like, because I've talked to him, and, you know, there's several people who have great things to say about you.
Marc:One was Jim, who I had a long talk with in here, and the other one was Genji.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And Jenji talked about a lot of people, but like with you, she lit up.
Guest:Oh.
Marc:Because you, I guess she was a young writer on which one?
Marc:Tracy Takes On?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But the first one was on Fox.
Marc:So how do you get Jim Brooks, you know, who's a sitcom guy, who had a movie career, to do you?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I just got lucky.
Guest:He just... What did he see?
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:He just liked...
Guest:The thought of doing a variety show, and he had some commitments at Fox, and he just stuck with me.
Marc:Because he's kind of a genius.
Guest:He's a genius.
Guest:He's tough.
Guest:He's tough.
Guest:He's really, really hard to work for.
Guest:It's painful if you don't get it right, and you care so much about...
Guest:what he thinks and he put a great team together.
Guest:He put together this lady called Heidi Perlman, a great writer and a wonderful guy called Jerry Belson, who he was just the funniest, kindest man in the world.
Guest:I mean, he'd, he'd been on the Dick Van Dyke show and he was Gary Marshall, but so funny and so wicked.
Guest:I remember when we got our first Emmy nomination and he was always bitching that I said he was old.
Guest:He went, it's my first nomination in color.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Honey.
Guest:He came to LA and put an ad in the variety.
Guest:They said, Jerry Belson, funny is money.
Guest:Not funny, no money.
Marc:That was his thing.
Guest:And he was wonderful to me.
Marc:And how did the show come together?
Marc:What was the pitch?
Guest:Oh, it was just doing everything.
Guest:Just singing, dancing, me doing characters, me dressing up, me, you know.
Marc:So it had no real structure other than it's all character-centric.
Guest:Yeah, it was, we love things like your show of shows.
Guest:We just, you know.
Marc:And you had guys that remembered that.
Marc:You had guys that like did that type of television.
Guest:Yeah, we had Mel Brooks on the lot and he'd come in and do sketches with me.
Guest:And then Steve Martin came in and did a sketch with me.
Guest:And it was like, I was so shy.
Guest:It was like really bizarre.
Guest:You know, Steve Martin wanted to come in.
Guest:I was like, he didn't talk to me all week because he's kind of an odd guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was like, you know, it was like, Tracy, take him to your room and play your records.
Guest:And then on the night, he was just amazing.
Guest:And we did this great sketch.
Guest:But it was a very, very frightening rollercoaster ride of a show.
Guest:And I just stuck at it and just tried everything.
Guest:I had wonderful Julie Kavner.
Marc:She's great.
Guest:I adore Julie.
Guest:I mean, I had these, you know, Dan Castellaneta, a wonderful actor that I found in Chicago.
Marc:And they went on to do The Simpsons.
Guest:And that show ran for what?
Marc:How many did you do?
Marc:Like 50?
Guest:We did...
Guest:No, we did more than that.
Guest:We did like three seasons, I think.
Guest:And it's never been repeated or shown anyway.
Guest:It's because there was so much music in it.
Guest:I think the music clearances... Gets a little expensive.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that was for Fox.
Marc:That was for Fox.
Guest:It was the first show for Fox, yeah.
Marc:Just you and Married with Children.
Marc:That's all they had.
Guest:Married with Children.
Guest:And what did they always do?
Guest:Mr. President.
Guest:Madeleine Kahn was in a show and George C. Scott was in something.
Guest:George C. Scott.
Guest:And Patty Duke was in something.
Guest:I mean, it was, yeah, it was...
Marc:And now it's like it became this huge thing.
Marc:That was the very beginning of it.
Guest:That was the beginning.
Marc:And how did it end?
Guest:What with me?
Guest:Well, it just was, we won some Emmys and we were very, you know, very well thought of.
Guest:And then The Simpsons spun off from the show, which was, that's what people remember it for now, which was incredible.
Marc:I remember when it was on that, like, no, I remember that there was some sort of cultural kind of like, there's this genius lady here now.
Guest:It was sweet.
Guest:Yeah, it was odd.
Guest:Yeah, and I'd sort of be on Interview Magazine with the cover.
Marc:And every time you go look and check in with what you were doing, you're like, I don't know who she really is.
Guest:I know.
Guest:And then people just thought there was a rumor that I was somebody from Texas and I was just sort of impersonating.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, that I was really from Texas.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:But yeah, it was pretty cool.
Guest:It was something I was, yeah, and I got tons of offers to do things.
Guest:And I thought, well, what I really can do with these characters.
Guest:And I really dissolved into being other people.
Guest:And that's what Jim Brooks understood.
Guest:He used to sort of think I was his little Peter Sellers at one time.
Guest:And that was the biggest compliment ever.
Marc:Did you love Peter Sellers?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Like, because I imagine as somebody who grew up in Britain, that was like, he was the guy.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I mean, he was, you know, genius.
Guest:And to be, you know.
Marc:He really was kind of like, I can't, it's hard to even explain it.
Guest:Just like the early, you know, comedies of that.
Guest:I'm all right, Jack.
Guest:I mean, you remember from Doctor Strange.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:And, you know, the Pink Panther.
Guest:But early English films with him.
Guest:Betraying people throughout the class system in England fascinated me because that's what, you know, my whole thing about the class system.
Marc:You did a whole series of shows about the class system, didn't you?
Guest:Yeah, I did a show with Michael Palin about it and we played lots of...
Guest:It was great.
Guest:I love Palin.
Guest:I just want to work more with Palin.
Marc:He's a sweetheart.
Guest:He's adorable.
Marc:But that's one of the benefits of Britain, I guess, in a comedic way, is that you guys admit that there's a class system.
Marc:In America, everybody thinks they're just about to be upper class.
Marc:Yeah, it's... Or they're just poor and they're mad.
Guest:And there is a class system here.
Guest:It's more about money and stuff.
Marc:Well, that's what I'm... Yeah, there definitely is, but no one talks about it.
Guest:No, no.
Marc:But in England, it's sort of like, you know the delineation.
Guest:Oh, totally.
Guest:I mean, it still perpetuates because you have a queen at the top.
Marc:Right, right.
Guest:And then, you know, you've got these Eaton school boys, you know, we had Cameron and Boris Johnson and, you know, George Osborne.
Guest:It was like Eaton reunion in Downing Street a couple of years ago.
Guest:And, you know, it's that stuff that drives me potty.
Guest:And my husband was such a working class guy.
Guest:It just made him nuts.
Marc:But yeah, but the work, but there seems to be a continue, like maybe I'm projecting, but the,
Marc:given the class system that it's so entrenched and it's been going on for so long there still is this weird acceptance of it and reverence of the queen no matter what no and and you just kind of suck it up and that's who you are until then until there's a brexit vote and then you really know what's going on it's yeah and i've kind of got a grudging respect for her now she's in her 90s and she's done an amazing job but the rest of it and what it stands for yeah it's like we pay people millions of pounds to be better than us and
Guest:You know, I just don't get it.
Guest:To hold this line.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then people meet and go, oh, they're marvellous.
Guest:Oh, they're marvellous.
Guest:You go, what?
Guest:Because they're up in Scotland in Range Rovers shooting things, owning all the fishing rights.
Guest:What?
Guest:Don't say anything nasty about her.
Guest:They're marvellous.
Guest:You go, why?
Guest:I never got it.
Guest:I don't get it.
Marc:I guess it's, I don't know.
Marc:It's historical, I guess.
Marc:I mean, what else could it be?
Guest:America loves it.
Guest:I mean, it's not tourists.
Guest:It's wonderful.
Guest:You know, people come to England and they look at the palaces and the collections and the history and the Tower of London and the beheadings and all the Henry VIII.
Guest:It's fabulous.
Guest:But I don't think you need people living actively in these places anymore.
Guest:We'd still make just as much money showing everyone around, like a bicycling monarchy, like a Dutch, you know.
Marc:Why can't they just get an apartment somewhere?
Marc:Get the...
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:Get the queen a nice apartment.
Guest:Fine, you know, a nice timeshare condo on Donald Trump's golf course up in Scotland, you know.
Marc:I remember I was there right after high school and it was Charles and Diana's wedding when I was there.
Marc:And it was crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I didn't really know anything about it.
Marc:It just happened to be there.
Marc:And I think I was in France and the whole world was going nuts.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Did you ever meet her?
Guest:Yeah, I liked her.
Guest:I felt sorry for her.
Guest:I thought she was trying to, you know, do something.
Guest:And she realized that you couldn't sit around and do nothing.
Guest:And as I say, shoot things up with Range Rovers in Scotland.
Guest:You had to get out and meet some folk and go to hospitals and stuff.
Guest:I think she earned her keep.
Guest:I liked her.
Guest:I thought it was a tragedy.
Marc:And they were so mad about that in a way, weren't they?
Guest:It was odd, yeah.
Guest:But it's our soap opera.
Guest:It sells all the papers.
Guest:People love it, really.
Marc:I think that's why they love it.
Guest:Yeah, we're never going to be a republic.
Guest:You know, we did get rid of him years ago.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We killed Charles I and we had Oliver Cornwell for 11 years and it was jolly dull, evidently.
Guest:He wouldn't let anybody do anything or play a lot of music.
Guest:And then we got Charles II in with his long hair and his spaniels and all his mistresses and it was fun again.
Guest:So we did do it once.
Marc:I guess that's what keeps the spirit up over there.
Marc:Sort of like the royals have got to be crazy and fun.
Guest:And they're just more interesting and better than ours.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:So The Simpsons, that was just a series of interstitial stuff?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Matt Groening came in and he'd written his Life in Hell.
Guest:I remember those books.
Guest:We used to buy those in shops on Melrose.
Guest:And Heidi Perlman was a big fan.
Guest:And I remember him coming in and meeting him and...
Guest:Brilliant fella, and then he created The Simpsons for the show, and seeing the first drawings of, you know, large with blue hair.
Guest:Yeah, Julie Cavner.
Guest:Julie Cavner.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I love impersonating how it's so mean.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they just, off they went, and my goodness, it's become astonishing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you get a piece of it?
Guest:I get a tiny piece of it, yes, Mark, enough to keep me comfortable.
Guest:I know it's doing well.
Guest:I was just in Italy, and, you know, it's got Le Simpson's bathroom, you know, in these little shops.
Guest:And I go, Johnny, it's just paid for the holiday, kid.
Guest:You know, I mean, it's just everywhere.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:It's fantastic.
Marc:Yeah, and it keeps going.
Marc:It keeps going.
Marc:All right, so what happens?
Marc:It's hard to go through your whole career, obviously.
Guest:Also, I tried everyone mad.
Guest:I tried bits of everything.
Guest:And then I did really classy stuff.
Guest:You know, I was in a film with Meryl Streep.
Guest:As I was a pop star, I got cast in plenty.
Guest:And that was a fabulous, you know, serious, wonderful movie.
Guest:And you can do it?
Guest:I can...
Marc:You can be serious.
Guest:I can be serious.
Marc:Does it bore you?
Guest:Darling, I'm a thespian.
Guest:And I had a wonderful time doing that.
Marc:So was there a point where you got tired of TV?
Marc:No, I've never been tired of TV.
Guest:I like TV.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:It's where my strength has been.
Guest:I've done a few movies.
Guest:I've never had a really successful movie.
Guest:I love being a part of them, but TV's great.
Guest:And it couldn't be better now.
Guest:Bang, you do another one the next week.
Guest:It's not very good.
Guest:Okay, we'll do another show next week.
Guest:And it's that excitement.
Marc:The movies take for fucking hours.
Guest:And then they just sit there and they're awful.
Marc:You never know when they're going to come out.
Marc:You don't even remember what it's about by the time it comes out.
Marc:So what was the HBO?
Marc:How did you shift?
Marc:Like...
Guest:I liked to finish doing the Fox show, and then I had sort of great respect and interest from people and Chris Albrecht and Michael Fuchs.
Marc:Yeah, Michael Fuchs was still there.
Guest:Carolyn Strauss, yeah.
Guest:I'd done the show about class system in England with Michael Palin, and they thought that would be a good format for America.
Guest:And then I took on New York, and I would take on all these different subjects, and that's how the HBO show got going.
Marc:And they were themed.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So it gave me a central theme, and I just...
Marc:And that's where you met Genji?
Guest:That's when I met Genji.
Guest:She'd been working on, I think, Friends.
Guest:And she was like the kid.
Guest:She came in with her tight jeans.
Guest:And she was always very cool, Genji.
Guest:She'd just been playing cards with Hispanic guys on the boardwalk in Venice.
Guest:She had multi-ethnic friends.
Guest:You'd go, wow, Genji.
Guest:And I always felt a bit like a headmistress.
Guest:I'd go, where's your script?
Guest:It's like, where's your homework?
Yeah.
Guest:So she'd take a bit of time turning in her homework.
Guest:But when it came in, it was just fabulous.
Marc:Well, how did that work on those shows, like in general with the writers when you were doing characters?
Marc:Would you come up with the characters?
Guest:Yeah, I pretty much come up with the characters.
Marc:And then they place it?
Guest:Yeah, and then we'd find a way to apply them to that show.
Guest:And I had different groups.
Guest:I'd have Genji, my young, my kid.
Guest:I had a lovely girl parent who used to do the Golden Girls and had done Mary Hartman.
Guest:Mary Hartman, brilliant.
Marc:Who was that?
Guest:Forget her name.
Guest:Gail Parent.
Guest:And then I had Ian Lafrenet and Dick Clement, English writers who they were on.
Guest:I mean, I had lots of George McGrath and just this various group of people that were very diverse and eclectic, which is what I do.
Guest:And some were better at writing for certain characters.
Guest:And there were some characters I could just always write myself.
Guest:And we would collaborate, and I'd work with different people, and it just all came together.
Marc:And would there be plenty of room for riffing, improvising?
Guest:Totally.
Guest:It's like 30% to me on the day is spontaneous and happens, and yeah.
Marc:And so after all these shows you did here, to go back to Britain, back to the BBC, must have been like going to like you were a kid again.
Yeah.
Guest:It was funny.
Marc:Because it's like entrenched, isn't it?
Marc:Like there's that old studio there.
Marc:I did some sort of radio show there.
Marc:And you feel the history, if it's what I'm thinking, if it's the same building.
Guest:Yeah, the radio studios are still there.
Guest:All the TV stuff is gone now, the studios.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:But I wanted to spend more time in England after my husband died and be near my daughter, Mabel, who is just the power source and just amazing.
Guest:And the BBC said, would you like to come in and talk about a project?
Guest:I thought, my God, I haven't been here for 30 years.
Guest:And I thought I was going to go back in, it would be all the...
Guest:What, what, what?
Guest:You know, the old fellows with the... There was a fellow there with a bow tie, Robin Nash.
Guest:And it fought in the Second World War.
Guest:More jokes about traffic wardens.
Guest:That's probably what, what, what, what?
Guest:And they used to do that sort of stuff.
Guest:I thought, oh, God, it's those guys again.
Guest:I'm just sunk.
Guest:And I went in and it's now run by an incredible woman called Charlotte Moore.
Guest:And there was a young girl called My Fanwy Moore.
Guest:And My Fanwy is such a Welsh name.
Guest:And...
Guest:They just said, you know, would you like to do a show about modern-day Britain?
Guest:And I said, yeah, Britain's so great right now.
Guest:It's a melting pot, and we're all, like, multi-ethnic and European Union and, you know, this global hub.
Guest:And, you know, a year later, we vote bloody Brexit, but...
Guest:But I did it knowing that HBO were going to take it as well because I said I can't just do things about England.
Guest:I'm so global now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I gave it a go again.
Guest:You know, you've got to crack on and do it and found some fabulous writers and it's been a joy.
Marc:English writers?
Guest:Mostly?
Guest:But actually...
Guest:The guys that write on Veep, Armando Iannucci, Kevin Cecil, Andy Riley, Georgia Pritchett, particularly, they all write on Veep, but they're English.
Marc:That's a funny show, man.
Guest:Yeah, they're great.
Guest:They're great.
Guest:It's a really good team.
Guest:And it's come together, and I...
Guest:Do impersonations now, which I never really used to do, but I realized there's a difference between characters and impersonations.
Guest:And I thought, so in a way it's been a bit naughty because I do Judi Dench.
Marc:Oh, you do it great.
Guest:And play her as a national treasure.
Guest:And she's so well thought of that she can shoplift and nobody does anything about it.
Guest:And so, in a way, I was stealing from the legend that is Judi Dench.
Marc:It was great.
Guest:Camilla Parker Bowles.
Marc:That's funny too.
Marc:Maggie Smith.
Guest:Angela Merkel has been a big hit for me.
Guest:I just sort of imagined her as somebody she probably isn't.
Marc:It's hard to read, huh?
Guest:I think that she thinks she's very sexy and she's a big sex bomb, sex bomb.
Guest:And that young Lord Juncker is always trying to, you know, to smell her sexy mask.
Guest:And I imagined her as somebody that's amongst all the men and she's wearing a beige suit and she's very sex bomb.
Guest:So that was my premise for her.
Guest:That's been the problem.
Guest:Everyone's trying to hit on her.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:So she's having to shut down.
Guest:You know, with what's going on in America and her allegiance with Macron in France and Germany together, you know, they're becoming, I think, Americans are much more aware of her.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And I just love Brigitte Macron.
Guest:I want to be her.
Guest:And I love the way Trump said, you look great.
Guest:You're physically in great shape.
Guest:It's so embarrassing.
Marc:Oh, you do Melania too?
Guest:Oh, we did Melania like as a Westworld robot that the Russians have sent in years ago.
Guest:What she was, she was an early robot and now she's like mere space station.
Guest:She needs to be dropped into sea.
Guest:But they're trying to keep her going.
Guest:Yeah, because they need the information.
Guest:Yeah, because they need the information.
Guest:But she's really old now.
Guest:She needs to be replaced.
Guest:So we keep having her coming in for a retool.
Marc:That's hilarious.
Marc:And they're all available on HBO now?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The first season has been on HBO already, and the second season will be on after Bill Maher's show in October.
Marc:Great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you got nominated for an Emmy?
Marc:I did.
Marc:Again?
Marc:Yes, nice.
Marc:How many have you won?
Guest:I've got seven.
Marc:That's amazing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's lovely.
Marc:It's exciting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I'm still doing it.
Marc:Look, you know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It never gets old winning awards, does it?
Guest:No.
Guest:It's lovely.
Guest:It gives everyone a boost.
Guest:People love it.
Guest:The Emmys is like the top thing.
Guest:It's lovely.
Marc:Do you do much stage work?
No.
Guest:I couldn't do stand-up or stuff.
Marc:But what about acting on the stage?
Guest:I have done plays at times.
Guest:I'm just not an eight-show-a-week person.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I find it hard.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:You've done theater.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:A little.
Marc:I do stand up.
Marc:I mean, I haven't done much theater and I just did my first couple of TV shows.
Marc:And, you know, I have a whole new like, you know, one thing you realize is a stand up is that maybe I didn't get into this to work.
Marc:Because, like, you know, I love acting and stuff, but there is a lot of waiting.
Marc:Where you're kind of like, okay, it's about to happen.
Marc:Films are even worse.
Marc:I know.
Marc:But I love doing it.
Marc:I loved, like I did my own show for four seasons and that was great and that was very busy.
Marc:But you work your ass off.
Marc:And you're wearing heavy makeup.
Marc:I have to imagine that some of the bits that you do, you're in the chair for a day.
Guest:six hours what it's just no there's no makeup i will do anymore that takes more than two hours and they have to be pre-painted and you know ready to go and i get two guys to stick it on me in the morning and then i but if i'm in them for more than 14 hours i start to go a bit nuts it's like spielunking it's like you know yeah being buried alive and there's nothing worse than a member of the crew walking past you and saying are you okay in there yeah in there and you're covered in like a new stupid sod why did you mention that in
Guest:there are you okay in there no help me help me give me out yeah and i'd be in a fat suit and a you know with a oxygen tank thing beside me to keep me cool and you know the wig and the you think oh boy why am i what do i do this for and it's but i just love it if i try and look like me what's the point so you know i'm still doing it and i still love it i'm now i'm doing more
Guest:Because of the political scene, actually, people really want current stuff.
Guest:It was no good shooting a show and six months later, the piece with Angela Merkel or Theresa May or Melania Trump coming out.
Guest:It's got to be like Saturday Night Live a little bit.
Guest:Yeah, next week.
Guest:Yeah, we've been writing stuff and shooting on a Thursday and it goes out on the Saturday.
Guest:You have to now.
Guest:Yeah, you have to.
Marc:The news cycle is so fast.
Guest:The news cycle and people's attention span and everything.
Guest:So it's kind of exciting working that way.
Marc:But where was that piece that I saw or I watched of Teresa?
Marc:I mean, it seems like they're long form pieces.
Marc:They're not sketch pieces.
Marc:You give these characters time to breathe.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Because you sort of have to in order to give it some depth and to make it really hit.
Marc:I mean, that's good writing.
Marc:I mean, you're not just going for some weirdo
Guest:No, it's not a quick, cheap impersonation of just being me.
Guest:No, I really like to know what the underlying stuff is.
Guest:Yeah, that was... We got to mention within that sketch stuff that hadn't even happened yet.
Guest:So, you know, that was... No, that's what I like to do.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:And no laugh track and stuff.
Marc:No, no, it's much better.
Guest:No, no.
Marc:So what... In looking back, do you know why... Do you get lost in characters?
Marc:Do you find...
Marc:I mean, you seem to like yourself.
Marc:I mean, you don't seem to be uncomfortable.
Guest:I'm a really normal kind of person.
Guest:I'm not like, you know, I'm not that dark, depressed.
Guest:I'm supposed to be so miserable who's in comedy.
Guest:I mean, I've had some bleak things happen to me, but I'm certainly, I'm a pretty sensible person.
Marc:But you're not getting lost in characters because you can't, you know, because you can't stand.
Guest:No, I soon snap out of it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Because my family would be like, oh, shut up.
Guest:Enough.
Marc:Enough.
Guest:Yeah, enough.
Guest:Stop it.
Marc:So do you have a place here too or what?
Guest:Not anymore.
Guest:I don't live in L.A.
Guest:anymore.
Marc:So you're just running around doing the thing?
Guest:Yeah, I just come back in and see my son.
Guest:Because I'm in England mostly.
Guest:You know what you tend to do when you come to L.A.
Guest:now?
Guest:What?
Guest:Medical.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Because over there, you know, they don't know anything about preventative medicine.
Guest:You know, it's like, well, if you haven't got flames coming out the top of your head, you don't need to see me, do you?
Guest:You can fill, like, weeks with, like, you know, minor medical appointments.
Guest:They love it here.
Guest:It's such a big business here.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But you've also got the Guild coverage, I imagine.
Marc:I do.
Marc:So you just go down to Bob Hope Health Center.
Marc:Oh, man.
Guest:And it's like...
Marc:that's so funny that's a vacation like you have national health care there which is fine but yeah you can really make a week of it here you could really make up two two at my age please it's always bits to do it's all maintenance you know so you got all up to speed you know what you got yeah yeah i do that once a year yeah okay well i'm glad you're well thank you for talking well it's nice to talk to you i think that was good do you feel good about it yeah i was nervous about it so why do you not like talking to girls
Marc:No, I like talking to girls.
Guest:Who do you like talking to?
Marc:I like talking to everybody.
Guest:Guys, similar types that you don't sell.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:What happens to me is that because I put so much reliance on the conversation occurring that I don't really do a lot of structural questions.
Marc:So I always get nervous sort of like, what if we don't talk?
Marc:What if that doesn't happen?
Guest:Some people aren't spontaneous.
Guest:Have you had anyone in here that's a bit stupid and dull and doesn't talk back to you?
Guest:I know I just talk ad nauseum and probably talk a load of crap, but I always think if I spoke to someone and they just like think, they just stopped.
Marc:Well, no, what used to happen and what sometimes happens is that people expect to be interviewed.
Marc:So if someone comes in here and they're just sort of like, okay...
Marc:Then I'm like, oh, no.
Guest:The publicist sitting behind them.
Marc:I don't let anyone in here.
Guest:I don't.
Marc:I don't let anyone in here.
Marc:But sometimes it takes like 15, 20 minutes to find one thing that will just open it up.
Marc:Like something will open it up.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you don't know what it's going to be.
Marc:You just don't know what it's going to be.
Marc:Like I've had people come in here like John C. Reilly.
Marc:He literally comes in and goes, I don't like doing these.
Marc:I don't want, it ruins the mystique about who I am.
Marc:And thank God, I used to have a clown painting in my house and he just went off on clowns for like 20 minutes.
Marc:I'm like, thank God for clowns and that he loves clowns.
Guest:He likes clowns.
Guest:Well, yeah, it was just like a way to talk.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Like, I don't know when it's going to happen.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But no, I like talking to everybody.
Marc:I've never had that big of a problem.
Marc:I like talking to girls.
Marc:It's nice to talk to women.
Marc:I don't, does it seem like I have a problem?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:No, some comics are such a man's world.
Guest:Many either like women or they don't like women, especially in comedy, I think.
Guest:There's a real boys club group.
Marc:I think that's true.
Marc:I believe that's true, but I think that they've been proven wrong.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Maybe you need to remind them occasionally.
Guest:Well, it's a great time for girls right now.
Guest:It's me going on about reminding myself about Carol Burnett, about Lily Toblin, about Gilda Radner, about Lucille Ball, about Gracie Allen, George Byrne's wife.
Marc:Julia Louis-Dreyfus.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Genius.
Marc:Amazing.
Marc:I don't think that people give Carol Burnett and those people enough credit, really.
Marc:I've wanted to talk to her, and Lily Tomlin.
Marc:Oh, you should.
Marc:Look, I've tried.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I've talked to Julia Louis-Dreyfus.
Guest:She's shy.
Guest:who carol she is really i mean she's just a lovely lovely actress i mean her you know she was so endearing and so loved and so and then so you know some of the sketches they're so fabulous she's so sad yeah i know i know and to talk to her about her time in the cbs lot yeah and how she felt like she was the goody goody lady doing her show and the smothers brothers next door were like smoking dope and saying we're the bad boys and you've got to talk to her about being on the lot at that time it's fabulous
Marc:But you do think now that the sort of boys club is diminishing a bit, don't you?
Guest:Yeah, a little bit.
Marc:Because there's so many great shows.
Marc:Like Insecure is another great show.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:She's gorgeous.
Guest:Love her.
Guest:And then I love Donald Glover in Atlanta.
Marc:It's my new favorite one.
Marc:That's a great show.
Guest:But I love seeing ensemble shows where everyone can... Yeah, Veep is real good at that.
Guest:Veep is great.
Marc:It's crazy.
Marc:She's crazy funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:They do like some... We've got to have a woman in late night now.
Guest:It's a bit much.
Guest:We've got Samantha Bee and that's great, but it would be nice to see.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:As a host?
Guest:We can't keep the women in daytime giving away hair dryers and talking about ovarian cancer.
Guest:I mean, let us do some late night shit, guys.
Marc:I think you just pitched for your late night show.
Marc:Are you ready to host?
Marc:No, I couldn't do it.
Marc:No?
Marc:No, not me, but... Well, I'm glad that your show's still on.
Marc:I'm glad you're still working.
Marc:Thank you for talking to me.
Guest:It's lovely to talk to you.
Marc:That was Tracy Allman.
Marc:Allman?
Marc:No, Tracy Allman.
Marc:And as I said, the second season of her HBO show, Tracy Allman Show, premieres this Friday, October 20th.
Marc:Please go get the book if you haven't gotten it.
Marc:Waiting for the Punch.
Marc:Words to Live By from the WTF podcast by Mark Maron and Brendan McDonald.
Marc:Bunch of people in there.
Marc:150, 160 bits and pieces of interviews themed beautifully, contextualized through chapters that you can all relate to.
Marc:Yeah, it's a good book.
Marc:You can go to get it at a bookstore.
Marc:You can go to markmarinbook.com.
Marc:So there's that, and I'll noodle for a second, and then I gotta go.
Marc:Boomer lives!