Episode 825 - Kia Stevens / Chavo Guerrero Jr.

00:00:53Marc:And as I do every year, obviously where I live here in Highland Park on the east side of Los Angeles County, the 4th of July started weeks ago.

00:01:03Marc:So it's a slow build.

00:01:04Marc:We're well prepared here in Highland Park for what's about to happen.

00:01:09Marc:I'm going to go up on my roof for a little while and then I'm going to go over to my buddy Dan's from Gimme Gimme Records, hang out in his yard.

00:01:18Marc:I'm going to bake some stuff.

00:01:20Marc:I'm going to get back into the baking.

00:01:21Marc:Well, it's one specific thing, and it's a homage at this point.

00:01:26Marc:I make some hippie bread from Angelica Kitchen in New York City, which is no longer with us.

00:01:33Marc:Angelica Kitchen has passed.

00:01:35Marc:It's moved on.

00:01:36Marc:It's no longer.

00:01:37Marc:And this brick of...

00:01:39Marc:Brown rice, oats, cornmeal, apple cider is a very specific type of bread.

00:01:45Marc:I wouldn't call it a bread.

00:01:46Marc:There's no real leavening or rising or even baking powder involved.

00:01:50Marc:It is just a brick that slices up.

00:01:54Marc:And I make it with, there's a miso tahini spread that goes with it.

00:02:00Marc:I found a recipe for it.

00:02:02Marc:I honor...

00:02:03Marc:The recipe of the late, great Angelica Kitchen in New York.

00:02:06Marc:And there is a lot of transplants at this shindig I go to who might know the original hippie cornbread, the hippie rice brick, the brick of supposed health that is Angelica cornbread.

00:02:23Marc:So I'm going to be making that.

00:02:23Marc:I don't know what you're making.

00:02:25Marc:Cooking up some meats.

00:02:26Marc:You know, we're celebrating...

00:02:28Marc:The the independence of America and that that has different meaning, I would imagine, for the people of this country tomorrow.

00:02:37Marc:Two very different ideas of where America is going and what's happening, what independence means and what democracy means.

00:02:44Marc:Some people are going to be celebrating and excited about exactly how things are going.

00:02:49Marc:Other people are going to be sort of scared and thoughtful.

00:02:53Marc:Either way, whether you're eating in celebration, eating those ribs, eating those steaks, those burgers, those dogs, those brats, whatever you're eating, that slab of salmon on a piece of cedar.

00:03:06Marc:Some people are going to be eating out of celebration.

00:03:08Marc:Others are going to be eating out of terror.

00:03:11Marc:and fear and just you know make it go away for a second those are the two approaches to grilling this year that you can grill for the uh the glory of america in its current state or you can grill for the uh complete uh existential panic that you're experiencing and eat that shit away either way enjoy it don't blow your fingers off of course

00:03:36Marc:That's always good.

00:03:38Marc:Watch your kids with the fire and the bombs.

00:03:42Marc:Yeah, watch them with that.

00:03:44Marc:Watch them with the lighters.

00:03:46Marc:Ask them where they got whatever they got and try to assess what it's going to do before someone loses an arm.

00:03:54Marc:It's not worth the fight today, today.

00:03:58Marc:And for Christ's sake, be careful with your guns, will you?

00:04:01Marc:In my neighborhood, occasionally there's a habit to shoot guns into the air.

00:04:04Marc:And, you know, that billet's going to come down eventually.

00:04:09Marc:as it did on my back windshield years back.

00:04:12Marc:That was on New Year's Eve.

00:04:14Marc:So, yeah, yeah, go easy with the gunplay if you could, either, you know, the violent kind or just the celebratory kind where you just blow a couple rounds into the air because those bullets, they do come down.

00:04:26Marc:They don't enter orbit.

00:04:28Marc:And for God and country sakes, don't play with the firearms too much unless you're doing it safely.

00:04:35Marc:all right and don't shoot anybody for for fuck's sake would you not do that on the fourth of july could we not do that oh my god today on the show it's a double header we have chavo guerrero a uh a wrestler he uh he was the trainer on the for the for the women on the show glow which is what i'm on and uh but he also he's a legacy

00:04:59Marc:He comes from a wrestling dynasty.

00:05:01Marc:He's like a third-generation wrestler.

00:05:03Marc:And by doing the show, he was actually following in the footsteps of his uncle Mondo Guerrero, who trained the women on the original GLOW show in the 80s.

00:05:14Marc:And Kia Stevens is also on the show.

00:05:15Marc:Kia wrestles under the name Awesome Kong and Karma.

00:05:20Marc:She's a professional wrestler who actually had other aspirations, as you'll find in my conversation with her.

00:05:26Marc:It was great.

00:05:26Marc:She was the one...

00:05:28Marc:Actual professional wrestler in the cast of the Women of Glow.

00:05:31Marc:And one of the things that's great about talking to the people involved in the show, outside of sharing with you what the business of show business is about from the ground up, from production, from acting, from in this show, you know, training.

00:05:45Marc:And also I'm going to talk to the writers and the creators.

00:05:50Marc:What we find, you know, is all the things that are involved.

00:05:53Marc:And creating entertainment product.

00:05:57Marc:But also, this is a it's an interesting time in the culture.

00:06:01Marc:And, you know, for someone who didn't grow up with wrestling, it's hard not to compare a lot of the tactics in the in the media.

00:06:10Marc:that are going on now to wrestling tactics.

00:06:14Marc:Our president is one of the greatest heels that's ever existed, really.

00:06:19Marc:Unfortunately, he's in the most powerful position on the world, and a lot of times the heel's an entertaining guy, and he's got an entertaining attitude, and some people watch wrestling, they love the heels, they love the faces, they want the heels to get their comeuppance, but they want the heel to come back and fight some more and be the asshole that they are.

00:06:39Marc:And I don't know.

00:06:40Marc:I think that in this particular wrestling match, a majority of the citizens of the United States of America will have to be the face.

00:06:51Marc:See how that pans out on all levels.

00:06:55Marc:But, you know, the sort of monarchy and universe of wrestling, the sort of good and evil, the simplicity of it, the spectacle of it, the execution of it, those emotions that are grounded in the story, but also in the dichotomy, the heel, the face.

00:07:09Marc:That's it.

00:07:10Marc:You got your people that go both ways kind of deal.

00:07:14Marc:But it is honest.

00:07:16Marc:And I've been enjoying talking to people involved in wrestling.

00:07:21Marc:And I guess it's never too late, never too late to become a fan of wrestling once you get it.

00:07:27Marc:So this is me talking to the legendary Chavo Guerrero.

00:07:34Guest:Chavo Guerrero

00:07:36Guest:chavo guerrero jr that's it man sorry about your dad man oh thanks man it's okay it's good yeah it's a good it's a good thing man we uh for you go use all you listen that don't know my dad passed away about uh i don't know about five weeks ago six weeks ago two months ago something like that um it was good man i i got a me and my dad were pretty close yeah

00:07:57Guest:But I could have gotten a call in the middle of the night, him saying, you know, them saying, your dad passed away last night.

00:08:02Guest:Was he ill?

00:08:03Guest:He wasn't.

00:08:04Guest:He went for a gallbladder thing.

00:08:07Guest:Yeah.

00:08:08Guest:And they found liver cancer.

00:08:10Marc:Oh.

00:08:11Guest:So.

00:08:11Marc:And it was already that far along.

00:08:13Guest:Yeah.

00:08:13Guest:Stage four.

00:08:14Guest:And he's like, what are you talking about?

00:08:14Guest:He goes, you've given me like, I don't know how many scans.

00:08:17Guest:Yeah.

00:08:17Guest:Nothing.

00:08:18Guest:And all of a sudden, liver cancer, stage four, unoperable.

00:08:21Guest:So I had five straight weeks with him, you know, really.

00:08:23Guest:I was with him a lot.

00:08:24Guest:So it was good.

00:08:25Guest:And a lot of people were upset.

00:08:26Guest:He was a hero to many.

00:08:28Guest:Yeah, man, for sure.

00:08:29Guest:For sure, man.

00:08:31Guest:For sure.

00:08:31Guest:The wrestling patriarch.

00:08:33Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:08:34Guest:He kind of was, man.

00:08:34Guest:This guy was... He grew up... I mean, he...

00:08:37Guest:My grandfather was a wrestler also.

00:08:40Guest:It's so crazy.

00:08:40Guest:How far back?

00:08:42Guest:How many generations?

00:08:42Guest:Three?

00:08:43Guest:You're the third?

00:08:43Guest:It's three generations, but it goes both sides of the family.

00:08:48Guest:So my grandmother met my grandfather because she went to see her brother who was a famous wrestler.

00:08:53Guest:In Mexico.

00:08:54Guest:In Mexico.

00:08:55Marc:What is that tradition of Mexican wrestling?

00:08:57Marc:Did that predate the American obsession?

00:08:59Marc:How do they... Yeah, for sure.

00:09:01Guest:In America, it was still kind of very carnival-esque.

00:09:05Guest:I can't say that.

00:09:06Guest:You had guys like Gorgeous George and those guys.

00:09:09Guest:Yeah, who our president modeled his career after.

00:09:11Guest:Yeah, we can get into that, right?

00:09:14Guest:Jeez.

00:09:15Guest:But...

00:09:16Guest:In Mexico, these guys became more superhero-esque.

00:09:20Guest:They started doing movies and that kind of stuff.

00:09:22Guest:So there was a famous wrestler named El Santo, who was my dad's godfather, actually, and my grandfather's partner at the time.

00:09:30Guest:Were these guys, were they doing the masks?

00:09:32Guest:So nobody did the masks in Mexico.

00:09:34Guest:And this one guy, El Santo, did the mask and the studios, the Mexican studios saw the potential on it and they started casting him as a superhero in all of these movies.

00:09:47Guest:So he became so popular that everybody started adopting that mask.

00:09:51Guest:Yeah.

00:09:51Guest:so that's where the mask that's where the mask came from yeah so then our family doesn't do the mask because my grandfather never did so we kind of we bucked against it you know yeah we're too pretty we don't need to do it you know but uh so there was a generation of mexican wrestlers that some were masked and some weren't yes and now most of them start off with a mask and then they end up losing it i don't but did that play into the heel and face thing you know the uh the mask guys were they always bad were they

00:10:17Guest:No, some guys good, some guys bad.

00:10:19Guest:It didn't really, really matter.

00:10:20Marc:And everybody, was it like a clown face?

00:10:22Marc:Did everyone have their own unique mask?

00:10:24Guest:Yeah, you have your own unique mask.

00:10:25Guest:Everybody has their own, that's only their unique style, you know.

00:10:30Marc:But now Lucha as a brand is the Mexican wrestling.

00:10:35Marc:It's called Lucha Libre.

00:10:36Guest:That is what's Mexican wrestling called.

00:10:38Guest:That's called like free wrestle almost.

00:10:41Marc:Free wrestle.

00:10:42Guest:Free wrestle.

00:10:42Guest:But you know, anytime you say now Lucha, that's Mexican style wrestling.

00:10:46Guest:Although they are good mat wrestlers, they do a lot of like acrobatics and it's very flippy and I'll do the ropes and all those different stuff.

00:10:53Marc:But that's like seeing sort of a resurgence in the last decade here in the States.

00:10:57Guest:Yeah.

00:10:57Guest:Everything's kind of like MMA is now to where you kind of have to be a high.

00:11:01Guest:Before when MMA started, you were either a puncher or you were a runner.

00:11:04Guest:jujitsu guy or you're a karate guy right well now you're a hybrid of everybody of everything you know yeah and that's what wrestling is now like american wrestling is definitely any any like high flying moves you see that's lucha stuff yeah any real strong style hitting stuff that's japan style um really yeah any like real technical mat wrestling that's kind of that's kind of like um um european style and then throw it in with american entertainment right version of it that's where you kind of get what is now

00:11:33Marc:But all these disciplines you're talking about are professional wrestling.

00:11:38Marc:So it is a acrobatic, theatrical, scripted match.

00:11:45Guest:Yes, for sure.

00:11:46Guest:For sure.

00:11:46Guest:It's our main objective is entertainment.

00:11:49Guest:Right.

00:11:49Guest:Not a great show, a great match.

00:11:51Marc:And all these other areas where you talk about Japan and Europe, they have been evolving styles for the last however many years.

00:11:58Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:11:59Marc:Because wrestling was in France.

00:12:01Marc:It all seemed to happen around the same time, right?

00:12:03Guest:Yeah, in the early 20s.

00:12:04Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:12:05Guest:That's when it all started.

00:12:06Guest:And it was really kind of at first like a carnival type thing, carny, and then it just got bigger and bigger.

00:12:11Guest:And then you got people, you know, that's kind of like how boxing started.

00:12:14Guest:Boxing kind of started with just guys would just bare knuckle fight, you know, and just proud to get around them.

00:12:19Guest:And then eventually you got to the rules and the big stadiums and that kind of stuff.

00:12:23Marc:But still, you're just dealing with in terms of how the outcome of boxing match is going to go.

00:12:28Marc:It's just the odds of the fight record of the guy.

00:12:32Marc:You didn't know.

00:12:33Marc:They're actually beating the shit out of each other, as wrestlers are, too.

00:12:36Guest:Sure.

00:12:37Guest:We have the luxury of being able to put on the great show.

00:12:40Guest:I mean, MMA and boxing, although I love all of that stuff.

00:12:44Guest:Yeah.

00:12:44Guest:Sometimes you go pay for a boxing match or a MMA match and it's over in a minute.

00:12:48Guest:It's over in a second or it's boring as heck and you're like, blah, this is horrible.

00:12:52Guest:I don't know how many times I've yelled at my TV and yelled at Dana White from the head of the UFC and said, you owe me $59.95, jerk.

00:13:02Guest:With wrestling, you know it's going to go on for a while.

00:13:04Guest:Yeah, you know it's going to be pretty good.

00:13:05Guest:So where did you grow up primarily?

00:13:08Guest:I grew up here in Orange County.

00:13:10Guest:I'm from El Paso, Texas.

00:13:11Guest:That's where our families were, you know, Mexico City, but then El Paso, Texas.

00:13:15Guest:But we grew up here in Orange County in like Huntington Beach, Fountain Valley area.

00:13:20Marc:And your dad grew up in El Paso?

00:13:21Guest:He grew up kind of everywhere.

00:13:23Guest:He was on the road when my grandfather was a wrestler.

00:13:26Guest:He wrestled everywhere.

00:13:27Guest:So my dad grew up almost like an army brat, just kind of all over the place.

00:13:32Guest:And they settled in El Paso, and that's where he went to high school at.

00:13:35Guest:Yeah.

00:13:35Guest:And then came out here at the Olympic Auditorium in Los Angeles.

00:13:39Guest:Yeah.

00:13:39Marc:So when your dad was, like at the time that your father was huge in wrestling, it was still sort of a special world.

00:13:49Marc:It wasn't like mainstream entertainment.

00:13:51Guest:It wasn't yet.

00:13:53Guest:It was starting to get there.

00:13:54Guest:Like it'd be very localized.

00:13:55Guest:Now, like we say the WWE's territory is the world now.

00:14:00Guest:But you had different territories, like my dad was part of the Los Angeles territory, which was called NWA Hollywood Wrestling.

00:14:07Guest:And people like Freddie Blassie came out of there, and Roddy Piper, and my father, and others, of course.

00:14:15Guest:And where were they wrestling?

00:14:16Guest:At the Olympic Auditorium.

00:14:17Guest:The old Olympic Auditorium is now a Korean church, but it was built for the 1932 Olympics.

00:14:23Guest:If you look at the size of it, comparative to the big staple centers and stuff now, it's relatively pretty small, but that's where they had huge, massive bouts and the Olympics and stuff were there.

00:14:33Guest:So that was his main, the home of it.

00:14:35Marc:Did they shoot a local show there?

00:14:37Marc:Like where I grew up in Albuquerque, they had it at the Civic Auditorium.

00:14:40Marc:So and then they had there was a dude that used to host it on Sunday, a little dude with a white beard and white hair.

00:14:45Marc:And he'd be the guy.

00:14:47Guest:Exact same thing here.

00:14:48Guest:And every every basically territory.

00:14:50Guest:So you had, you know, here in California, you had the, you know, the San Francisco territory and the Los Angeles territory.

00:14:57Guest:But in Texas would have, you know, four or five different territories, the Dallas, El Paso, San Antonio, Houston territories.

00:15:03Guest:They all do the same thing.

00:15:05Marc:And they'd have the weekly matches?

00:15:07Guest:They all had weekly matches.

00:15:08Guest:They had actually probably, these guys wrestled, they wrestled 300 days a year.

00:15:12Guest:Well, 365 days a year.

00:15:14Guest:On the road.

00:15:15Guest:On the road.

00:15:16Guest:Yeah.

00:15:16Guest:No, they wrestled every single day.

00:15:18Guest:There would be a territory.

00:15:19Guest:So like my dad would do, here would do Los Angeles TV on, you know, whatever it was on Monday.

00:15:24Guest:I'm getting these days wrong.

00:15:26Guest:But on Monday, Tuesday would be Ventura.

00:15:28Guest:Wednesday would be, you know, let's say Fresno.

00:15:33Guest:thursday would be san diego friday would be san bernardino uh and they just have matches so you never knew how many people were going to come it wasn't never knew so you had one tv show yeah that propelled all your live events huh typically wrestling is a live event um business they use their tv show to promote their live events basically that's kind of how it's still kind of done

00:15:55Marc:Yeah, and these guys got, like, you know, having, you know, worked with you a little bit on GLOW and also, like, not growing up being a wrestling guy.

00:16:04Marc:Sure.

00:16:04Marc:Like, you know, like John Darneal in The Mountain Ghost wrote that beautiful song about your dad, right?

00:16:08Marc:Right, right, right.

00:16:09Marc:And because, like, he was a kid who had trouble at home and, you know, wrestling kind of elevated things.

00:16:15Marc:And who else was I talking to?

00:16:17Marc:I was talking to AJ Lee.

00:16:19Marc:She was one of these kids that would watch wrestling, and she also grew up in a painful childhood.

00:16:25Marc:And in her mind, it was like, I can be a superhero.

00:16:29Guest:That's kind of like what we are.

00:16:30Guest:I mean, how they portray us as superheroes, and the new show that I'm doing, Lucha Underground, really...

00:16:35Guest:Comic book superhero is totally the way we go.

00:16:38Guest:And you write comics.

00:16:39Guest:Well, I didn't write that one.

00:16:41Guest:That one's written about me.

00:16:42Guest:The one you gave me, yeah.

00:16:43Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:16:44Guest:It's called The Warrior's Creed by Lion Forge Comics.

00:16:46Guest:But Fabian Nisenza, who created Deadpool, that comic and the movie.

00:16:52Guest:I like that movie.

00:16:52Guest:He wrote that book, too.

00:16:54Marc:He did?

00:16:54Marc:Yeah.

00:16:54Marc:I sort of like that movie.

00:16:57Marc:I was never a comic book guy much or a wrestling guy.

00:17:00Marc:It was always rock and roll and shit to me.

00:17:03Marc:I love that too.

00:17:03Marc:Yeah, there's a crossover now.

00:17:05Marc:And I just knew that there was a world out there.

00:17:07Marc:I'm like, what the fuck is that?

00:17:08Marc:But I never went into it.

00:17:10Guest:Right, right.

00:17:11Marc:But just everyone's covered in blood all the time.

00:17:13Guest:Were they?

00:17:14Guest:Yeah, they always said that blood, red equaled green.

00:17:19Guest:A lot of times they're always bleeding.

00:17:20Guest:Did they use fake blood?

00:17:21Guest:No, never fake.

00:17:22Guest:Always real blood.

00:17:23Guest:Always real blood.

00:17:25Guest:There's two ways to do it.

00:17:26Guest:There's either the hard way, which means straight shot and bust you open, or they sometimes do a little, we call it the cut job.

00:17:33Guest:Oh, really?

00:17:33Guest:Yeah, they'd cut themselves sometimes at certain points.

00:17:36Guest:That's hard to do because you got to...

00:17:38Guest:do it and people are watching it's not like it's like a cut and then you do it it's you know you're doing it in front of people and if they see you i always say wrestling is like magic you know yeah you see um chris angel yeah we all know it's not real it's an illusion yeah when he floats i mean it's just floating you're like oh my god how's he doing that what how's he doing that

00:17:57Guest:But as soon as you see the string, you're like, oh, okay.

00:17:59Guest:You're going to change the channel.

00:18:00Guest:And wrestling's the same way.

00:18:02Guest:They know it's not real.

00:18:03Guest:It's entertainment.

00:18:04Guest:But if we can get them to go, God, I know it's not real, but these guys are really beating the crap out of each other.

00:18:09Guest:God, is that real?

00:18:11Guest:But as soon as you see the string, which is a fake punch or the typical wrestling fall or whatever it is, then you change the channel.

00:18:19Guest:That's something we never want them to do.

00:18:21Marc:Right, but I think also people appreciate the choreography of it.

00:18:25Guest:Absolutely.

00:18:26Marc:Like, if you do a good job with one of those moves, even though you know it's a move, they're like, oh, that was a good one.

00:18:30Guest:Oh, sure.

00:18:31Guest:Absolutely.

00:18:31Guest:Sure.

00:18:32Guest:I'm seeing all your guitars around here.

00:18:33Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:18:35Guest:I'm aspiring.

00:18:36Guest:Are you?

00:18:36Guest:Well, I'm new to it, yeah.

00:18:37Marc:yeah i i'm not i'm not great at it but i i seem to acquire guitars that's awesome and i and i like to play but uh but like okay so so when your old man was doing it it was a hard life but then also the fact is is that whether people know it's it's staged or it isn't staged doesn't matter there's a narrative and there are characters and there are people there every week that they know who they know who the rivalries are with and you know some people like a soap opera for men is what we call it yeah

00:19:03Marc:But also there is physical risk and there is, you know, these guys are beating the shit out of themselves.

00:19:09Guest:For sure.

00:19:10Guest:I mean, a lot of stuntmen are really big fans of ours, like Jackie Chan and Jean-Claude Van Damme and Chuck Norris, because they would see what we do, you know, 300 days a year with 30 or 40 different opponents, never really rehearsing, just going out there and doing it.

00:19:23Guest:And they were kind of like in awe, like, how the heck do you guys do this?

00:19:27Marc:every day on the road and just you're doing a different match every single night and you know they take they they'd go on set and rehearse it for for two weeks you know they're like i don't understand you guys are in it making the bread you gotta make the money you gotta put on the show basically yep so now at what level what was the wrestling world how did your like in your father's time that he was a big star what did that mean at that time i mean how big was the

00:19:50Guest:Pretty big.

00:19:51Guest:I knew we were growing up in a special family, you know, the girl family, you know.

00:19:55Guest:It's kind of weird because you grow up being, you know, taken care of and signing autographs and that kind of stuff.

00:20:01Guest:Or not that I was, but being around that, even being a celebrity type thing, you know, my family was.

00:20:07Guest:So it's kind of normal to you.

00:20:08Guest:Yeah.

00:20:09Guest:As I'm older now, you see it and kind of really appreciate it.

00:20:12Guest:But like my kids would, you know, they'd be playing video games and playing me.

00:20:16Guest:And they'd be talking to their friend.

00:20:18Guest:They're like five years old.

00:20:19Guest:Say, hey, which one is your dad?

00:20:21Guest:And they just kind of thought everybody's dad was on video games.

00:20:24Guest:And their friends are like, what are you talking about?

00:20:26Guest:My dad's not on video games.

00:20:27Marc:But could he make a good living, your old man?

00:20:30Guest:Yeah, you know what?

00:20:30Guest:They'd made good livings.

00:20:33Guest:It wasn't like it is now.

00:20:34Guest:You make much better now.

00:20:35Guest:Now it's much bigger.

00:20:36Guest:And, you know, Russ would make a lot more money.

00:20:40Guest:Back then, you know, they...

00:20:41Guest:They made good money, but you get hurt, then you didn't get paid.

00:20:46Guest:There was no union.

00:20:47Guest:There's none of that stuff.

00:20:48Marc:Right.

00:20:49Marc:And slimy promoters.

00:20:50Marc:Very slimy.

00:20:51Marc:You.

00:20:52Guest:You on our show.

00:20:54Marc:I think next season, if we do one, I'm going to evolve into more of it.

00:20:58Marc:Because the funny thing about that character was that they told me that your guy doesn't know nothing about wrestling.

00:21:03Marc:And I'm like, perfect.

00:21:05Guest:Yeah, right, exactly.

00:21:06Marc:So now we're going to learn about it.

00:21:08Marc:And I wonder how they're going to go with that.

00:21:10Marc:Because I have the disposition, but now I've got to be educated.

00:21:14Marc:Because at the beginning of the series, my dream was to do a movie.

00:21:18Marc:And I had a misunderstanding of what was important about wrestling.

00:21:20Marc:So I hope as the seasons go on, if they do, that I become more entrenched in the wrestling.

00:21:27Marc:That would seem to make sense to me.

00:21:28Marc:Yeah.

00:21:28Guest:Yeah, sure.

00:21:29Guest:I think that's the way they'd go because you'd realize, wow, we could actually make some money on this.

00:21:34Marc:Right, right.

00:21:35Marc:I guess when you were a kid, it was just a natural thing that you were going to be a wrestler.

00:21:40Guest:Yeah, we grew up with a wrestling ring in the backyard.

00:21:42Guest:Literally.

00:21:43Guest:You did?

00:21:43Guest:I had a wrestling ring in the backyard and we just- It was a family business.

00:21:46Guest:It's what it was.

00:21:47Guest:I mean, my grandmother took the, you know, she helped promote it and took the tickets and we would sell programs and other people would be at concession stands.

00:21:54Guest:It's a real road show.

00:21:55Guest:Exactly.

00:21:56Guest:It's just like, it was like you're a rock and roll fan.

00:21:59Guest:It was like being like a rock star.

00:22:02Guest:All different venues, all the different times, always on the road.

00:22:05Marc:And it's a family affair.

00:22:06Marc:Absolutely.

00:22:07Marc:The merch, the ticket sales, everything.

00:22:09Marc:The Guerrero family, they're coming to town.

00:22:11Guest:Yeah, basically, you know, yeah.

00:22:12Guest:so when did you start doing it professional um my first actual match was when i was 23 so that was in 1993 but you've been wrestling in that ring in the backyard since you were a kid yes for sure and your uncle was your yeah eddie grow he was a wrestler too you know so and he was only three years older than me he was one of my uncles i had other uncles that were wrestlers also oh yeah but he was the closest an age to me right yeah we were like we grew up

00:22:38Guest:but his brothers basically.

00:22:38Guest:So we used to wrestle in the backyard.

00:22:40Guest:We would camp out under the ring, you know, like that was our tent.

00:22:44Guest:We would take off the top rope so that the second rope was our top rope because we were small, you know.

00:22:49Guest:Yeah, that's just how it was.

00:22:50Guest:We just lived in the ring.

00:22:53Marc:And so you were 23, and what was the wrestling scene like then?

00:22:57Marc:Because it was already changing.

00:22:59Guest:You're thinking the Hulk Hogan years was probably in 83, 84?

00:23:02Guest:Yeah.

00:23:03Guest:That's probably when it really got really big.

00:23:05Guest:Right.

00:23:06Guest:So by 93, yeah, it was massive.

00:23:08Guest:All WrestleManias already happened and all that kind of stuff.

00:23:10Guest:And you were gunning for that?

00:23:12Guest:You think?

00:23:13Guest:I don't know.

00:23:14Guest:I was so naive when I got into it.

00:23:15Guest:I kind of was just like, yeah, okay, I'm going to be a wrestler.

00:23:18Marc:How were you naive?

00:23:18Marc:Well, you knew you wanted to be a wrestler.

00:23:20Guest:I wanted to be a wrestler.

00:23:20Guest:But the business.

00:23:21Guest:Yeah, you know, look, I'm a, basically, look, I'm a small brown guy in this big white guy's world.

00:23:28Guest:Yeah.

00:23:28Guest:I was, these guys were massive.

00:23:30Guest:They were, you know, six foot eight and six foot five, 300 pounds.

00:23:33Guest:So really, I mean, I grew up, I was, you know, five foot nine on a good day.

00:23:38Guest:Yeah.

00:23:38Guest:You know, I was weighing at 150 pounds and I always told my friends, hey, I'm going to be a wrestler.

00:23:42Guest:And they'd be like, yeah, right.

00:23:44Marc:Yeah.

00:23:44Guest:Yeah, right.

00:23:45Guest:Even my family was like, you're just, you're just too small.

00:23:47Guest:How big was Eddie?

00:23:48Guest:My size.

00:23:49Guest:Uh-huh.

00:23:50Guest:My size.

00:23:50Guest:Yeah.

00:23:50Guest:So you guys were both- We were all about the same size, all family.

00:23:53Guest:We just kind of made it.

00:23:54Guest:I don't know how it was.

00:23:55Guest:But you were coming up at the same time, right?

00:23:57Guest:Yeah.

00:23:57Guest:You and Eddie.

00:23:58Guest:Yeah, he was three years older than me, but about five years older than me or six years older than me in the wrestling world.

00:24:04Guest:And did you guys get involved with Vince and that crew?

00:24:07Guest:Not until we got established for a while first.

00:24:11Guest:We first started with this other- Ted Turner owned a wrestling organization also called-

00:24:17Guest:WCW World Championship Wrestling.

00:24:19Guest:That's how we got introduced.

00:24:20Guest:Basically, we wrestled in Mexico and did some other things.

00:24:23Guest:But then to the big, huge organization was WCW.

00:24:28Guest:And that got purchased by this man from the WWF at the time.

00:24:32Guest:And then he acquired my contract.

00:24:34Guest:My Uncle Eddie had already made the jump to them before.

00:24:37Marc:Yeah.

00:24:38Marc:And was he big on that circuit?

00:24:40Marc:Eddie?

00:24:40Marc:Yeah.

00:24:40Marc:Absolutely.

00:24:41Marc:One of the biggest.

00:24:42Marc:One of the biggest.

00:24:43Marc:Yeah.

00:24:44Marc:And did you see, like, did you, when you got in, what was your relationship with Eddie?

00:24:49Marc:Did you guys wrestle together?

00:24:50Guest:Did you?

00:24:50Guest:Yeah, we were pretty, I mean, I consider myself, and from what people have told me, that

00:24:56Guest:At the time, we were probably the best tag team in the world.

00:25:00Guest:Yeah, I think so.

00:25:00Guest:I mean, there was other great tag teams out there, you know, but as far as everything, as far as being able to do promos, entertain and wrestle and fight and fly and do everything, be good guys, be bad guys.

00:25:11Guest:I think we were the best at the time.

00:25:13Guest:What year was that?

00:25:15Guest:We started in 2003.

00:25:16Guest:Yeah.

00:25:17Guest:We had about a year run and then they broke us up to become singles wrestlers again.

00:25:22Marc:But at least you knew each other.

00:25:23Guest:They had a family language.

00:25:26Guest:Yeah.

00:25:26Guest:Right.

00:25:27Guest:We'd been doing that our whole lives.

00:25:28Guest:So when people, when they first put us together, they're like, holy dick, holy shit, you guys are so good.

00:25:32Guest:I'm like, well, yeah, we've been doing this our whole lives.

00:25:35Guest:We didn't, we never really had to talk in the ring.

00:25:37Guest:We just knew what each other was doing.

00:25:39Guest:Right.

00:25:39Guest:Right, right.

00:25:40Guest:Like, it was really like a sixth sense that I would... Where he left off, I would start up.

00:25:46Guest:Right.

00:25:47Guest:I'd pick up and vice versa.

00:25:48Marc:Yeah, just unspoken communication.

00:25:50Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:25:50Guest:It's very... I mean, it's definitely different than, you know, being on stage as far as, like, stand-up and stuff.

00:25:56Guest:Sure.

00:25:57Guest:But it's the same.

00:25:58Guest:It's this sixth sense that you feel you get... You become one with your partner and your opponents and the referee and the crowd.

00:26:05Guest:You kind of...

00:26:06Guest:You feel what's going to make them pop.

00:26:09Guest:You know what I mean?

00:26:09Guest:It's like we go up there.

00:26:12Guest:I consider the fans as I compare them to children, to babies.

00:26:18Guest:Because a baby, if you have kids, they're crying.

00:26:22Guest:You don't know...

00:26:23Guest:Why are they crying?

00:26:24Guest:Is he dirty?

00:26:25Guest:Is he burped?

00:26:27Guest:Does he sleepy?

00:26:28Guest:Is he hungry?

00:26:30Guest:You have to figure out what's going to make him stop crying.

00:26:33Guest:Well, fans are the same way.

00:26:34Guest:You get out there.

00:26:34Guest:They want to be entertained.

00:26:36Guest:They just don't know what they want.

00:26:37Guest:Do they want fighting?

00:26:39Guest:Do they want wrestling?

00:26:40Guest:Do they want brawling?

00:26:40Guest:Do they want to laugh?

00:26:42Guest:Do they want entertainment?

00:26:44Guest:They don't know.

00:26:45Guest:You have to feel what they want.

00:26:46Guest:And honor.

00:26:47Marc:And you improvise like that.

00:26:51Marc:Absolutely.

00:26:51Marc:Yeah, for sure.

00:26:52Marc:And you know when you need to get a laugh and you know when you need to do a flip or whatever.

00:26:56Guest:Yeah, for sure.

00:26:57Guest:There's times when I'm facing off with somebody and I can tell, oh, this is going to be easy.

00:27:01Guest:They're going to come on anything.

00:27:04Guest:And there's times when, like, ooh, okay, let's try lockup.

00:27:07Guest:Ooh, that didn't work.

00:27:08Guest:Oh, really?

00:27:09Guest:Yeah, oh, let's try rustling.

00:27:10Guest:Ooh, that's not going to get them.

00:27:11Guest:Okay, so then you've got to start feeling them out.

00:27:13Guest:Both of them.

00:27:14Guest:Both of you in the match feel that.

00:27:17Guest:Do you talk about it?

00:27:18Guest:Out there pretty much now I'm kind of the leader when I get in the ring for the most part.

00:27:24Guest:So you just listen to me.

00:27:27Guest:If we don't get them, we don't get them going and we don't entertain, then the heat's on me.

00:27:31Marc:Oh, really?

00:27:32Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:27:32Marc:So how much do you do it now?

00:27:35Guest:I still do it.

00:27:36Guest:I have another show called Lucha Underground that's on Netflix now also.

00:27:40Guest:The first one, two seasons that's really doing well.

00:27:44Guest:So I'm talent on the show, but I produce that show also.

00:27:47Guest:So I used to wrestle 300 days a year.

00:27:50Guest:Now I wrestle about 25, 30 days a year.

00:27:53Marc:Why?

00:27:54Marc:Because of age or just because of like you got tired of?

00:27:57Guest:It's a combination of everything.

00:27:58Guest:I don't have to anymore before you wrestle because, you know, for money, you know.

00:28:03Guest:Now I got a bunch of other things that I'm doing, you know, so I don't have to wrestle all the time.

00:28:07Guest:Right now I'm in between shows, so I'm picking up other wrestling shows and wrestling signings.

00:28:11Marc:But usually as a guy who is a consultant, hands on.

00:28:15Marc:you know, a trainer and occasionally talent.

00:28:19Marc:Is that how it works?

00:28:19Marc:Yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:28:21Marc:But like, was any of your decision to kind of ease up outside of financial, was it obviously took a mortal toll on your uncle?

00:28:28Marc:Yeah, for sure.

00:28:30Marc:What happened to that?

00:28:31Marc:What was that generation like?

00:28:32Marc:How did he pass away?

00:28:33Guest:So, for sure, that was a definite reason why I stepped back.

00:28:39Guest:You know that you can't do this forever.

00:28:42Guest:We say you can borrow it for a small time and then you got to give it back.

00:28:45Guest:Mm-hmm.

00:28:45Guest:So when Eddie grew up, Eddie was growing up in that last, my father grew up in the wild west of wrestling.

00:28:57Guest:It was the 70s, 80s.

00:28:59Guest:That's the same as Hollywood.

00:29:01Guest:Cocaine, steroids, nobody knew all that stuff was bad for you.

00:29:05Guest:And if they did, they didn't listen.

00:29:07Guest:They couldn't tell by their behavior.

00:29:09Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:29:10Guest:You're on the road and it just changed, you know.

00:29:12Guest:So Eddie grew up on the back end of that, but he really grew up when prescription pills got bigger, you know.

00:29:20Guest:I always ask my dad, like, hey, man, how come you never got, you know, involved with prescription pills?

00:29:25Guest:What, painkillers?

00:29:25Guest:Yeah, painkillers.

00:29:26Guest:And he's like, what do I want that for?

00:29:28Guest:That was legal.

00:29:28Guest:i wanted the illegal shit you know that's what my dad always said so eddie you know was trying not to do the illegal stuff and was doing well they're prescribed by a doctor should be fine so you know having a lot of pain that we have you're trying to mask it trying to keep going yeah it's very easy to start saying well um god i got a little injury i need i need a pill i got a breakfast injury exactly and my fingers will yeah yeah hey i might as

00:29:53Guest:throw down a 12 pack with that too right right so that is what really got eddie now he'd been clean for about three or four years when he passed but just all the damage that he had already done yeah scar tissue on his heart and that kind of stuff and and just pounding and being on the road and you know we always say that like you're wrestling you're kind of like like a like a piece of meat so yeah if you have you put two steaks on the counter and you beat the crap out of one and you leave one normal

00:30:19Guest:The one that you beat up is going to spoil faster than the other one.

00:30:22Guest:Kind of like how wrestling bodies are.

00:30:27Guest:So when he passed away, it wasn't shocking.

00:30:31Guest:It was shocking.

00:30:32Guest:I mean, for sure.

00:30:32Guest:I mean, I was with him and I was the one who found him.

00:30:35Guest:Oh, really?

00:30:35Guest:Yeah, he basically died in my arms.

00:30:37Guest:Really?

00:30:37Guest:Yeah.

00:30:38Guest:we're out on the road we were on the road we were on the road together yeah we were in minneapolis we were getting ready to russell in minneapolis a super show for wwe and then we were going overseas for a tour and uh you know we just happened to be on the same flights i he lived in phoenix i was flying in from uh um orange county airport yeah i connect in phoenix and like hey we're on the same flight so we roomed together we ended up getting a hotel at the same place and then we uh you know we went to our own hotel rooms and

00:31:07Guest:he gave me he called me goes hey man um can can i talk to you man and i was like yeah sure what's going on he's like i just i just need to talk to you i was like all right hold on a second i go let me get some stuff done i gotta go downstairs and work something out with the room and then i'll come up so i got done with with you know get my stuff done and i gave him a call and i go hey man what room are you in and he goes nah man that's okay and i said no man i'm coming up and he goes no i'm cool i'm okay all right seven o'clock in the

00:31:36Guest:your uncle didn't answer his wake-up call, so we went and knocked on his door.

00:31:41Guest:I'm getting a call.

00:31:43Guest:I'm like, oh, what do you mean didn't answer his wake-up call?

00:31:46Guest:And they're like, we found him.

00:31:47Guest:He's in the bathroom.

00:31:48Guest:I said, in the bathroom?

00:31:49Guest:What's going on?

00:31:50Guest:My first thought was...

00:31:52Guest:He had a relapse.

00:31:53Guest:Yeah.

00:31:53Guest:You know, that's my first... Because I... You know, you find... Sure.

00:31:56Guest:You find people, you know, drugged out, sleeping on the floor and that kind of stuff.

00:32:00Guest:And it happened quite a bit in wrestling back in the day, you know?

00:32:04Guest:So I'm thinking, oh, man, he had a relapse.

00:32:06Guest:So we went to his room and I guess...

00:32:09Guest:They tried to knock on his door, tried to open his door, that the latch was on it, so they cut the latch off.

00:32:14Guest:I came in, and he was face down in the bathroom.

00:32:19Guest:So we picked him up, like, whoa, this isn't right.

00:32:22Guest:Started CPR, the whole deal, and yeah, he died right there.

00:32:25Guest:Oh, my God.

00:32:26Guest:Yeah, man, it was crazy.

00:32:27Guest:What was it?

00:32:28Guest:uh they said a heart failure 38 years old oh my god yeah right 38 years old and then and it's weird because you got people that just abuse their bodies until they're 60 years old yeah and are fine yeah relatively relatively yeah yeah yeah but yeah uh they live yeah that's sad man 38 years old man it was crazy yeah and it was big shock to the wrestling world yeah oh yeah it was terrible for sure i'm glad you were there

00:32:54Guest:No, it was just the same thing with my dad.

00:32:58Guest:It was a gift.

00:32:59Guest:I got to spend his last moments with him.

00:33:01Guest:He didn't end up dying in his wife's arm or his kid's arm.

00:33:04Guest:I had to find him.

00:33:05Guest:It was mine.

00:33:06Guest:So it was a gift.

00:33:09Marc:But in that moment, was that sort of like, I don't know if I can...

00:33:13Guest:No, man, you just keep going.

00:33:15Guest:It's just like Vince McMahon, we had a huge meeting and Vince came to the hotel room and the whole deal before we released it to the press and everything.

00:33:23Guest:He's like, what do we do?

00:33:24Guest:We're supposed to have the super show.

00:33:25Guest:Do we cancel the show?

00:33:26Guest:And I said, absolutely not.

00:33:29Guest:I go, Eddie, the show must go on.

00:33:32Guest:Absolutely not.

00:33:33Guest:He'd be insulted and hurt that you would cancel the show.

00:33:35Guest:And all of these people who paid their money...

00:33:38Guest:to see us perform we're turned away you know my our grandfather always told us that you know these you got these fans that they may not have a lot of money and they're choosing to spend it on you you better give them their money's worth put on the show put that show on so the show must go on and did you announce it at the show yeah vince was was pretty pretty good to make it a tribute show we announced it right there well i mean it's a day of for fuck's sake yeah yeah it's right there live tv

00:34:04Marc:The day that he passed, you're on TV?

00:34:09Guest:Five hours, six hours before we actually went live.

00:34:12Guest:Well, how was that crowd?

00:34:14Guest:It was a sold-out crowd, and the place, I mean, it went...

00:34:19Guest:that mixture of grief and shock yeah for sure you know there's a there's a wrestler right now and i believe it's um i think it's sasha banks i believe she was at that show as as a kid holding up an eddie guerrero sign like i loved eddie before like like he's my favorite wrestler and then finds out he's dead that day with her sign like what the heck so that that's pretty pretty touching pretty heavy story yeah and she's a wrestler in wwe now

00:34:45Marc:It's interesting those wrestling kids become wrestlers.

00:34:48Guest:Yeah.

00:34:48Guest:That's tough, man.

00:34:49Guest:It's tough.

00:34:50Guest:I don't know how they do it.

00:34:51Guest:I grew up in the business, and just to come be an outsider and step in, it's so hard in politics and just learning how to be a wrestler.

00:35:01Marc:It's funny, though, that there is a way to become – like when I talked to AJ,

00:35:09Guest:you know you go learn how to wrestle you know you get into a local scene yeah you get the gym and you you know you start plugging away it's it's sort of like open mic level and you know you hope you make a break yeah it's the same thing it's it's hollywood you're trying to break in and when you go take acting classes and you know you can try to get a commercial here and there you just keep learning your craft and you go waitress on the side right right it's the same thing when you wrestle and you go bounce it or bouncers or somewhere or they you know they work in a gym and they

00:35:36Marc:Just trying to make it.

00:35:37Marc:Right, and they do the small matches.

00:35:38Marc:That's it.

00:35:38Marc:And hope to, you know, someone goes like, holy shit, where'd that guy come from?

00:35:42Marc:Exactly.

00:35:43Marc:So, but now, like, you know, when you have to do something like be a, you know, the trainer on GLOW.

00:35:48Marc:Right.

00:35:49Marc:Yeah, I'm coming into this world, and I've talked to wrestlers as a guy that doesn't know much about wrestling.

00:35:54Marc:And, you know, I've talked to Punk, and I've talked to Colt Cabana, and I've talked to AJ, I've talked to Foley.

00:36:00Marc:You know, my producer was a big wrestling player.

00:36:02Marc:kick so he keeps me in you know but you know we did a shtick with foley back in the day on radio where we basically did a wrestling script on the radio awesome he's great where he kicked someone's ass and people like who are listening right like what happened to that day you know we it was a political show so you know mick is this you know liberal guy and we had this conservative guy come in who said he wanted to you know take him on and we we staged this fight on the mics and then you know we we played it so it sounded like mick was beating the shit out of this conservative guy he was like ah

00:36:32Marc:Oh, hey.

00:36:33Marc:And we ended it abruptly.

00:36:35Marc:Right.

00:36:36Marc:And then we come back.

00:36:36Guest:Andy Kaufman style.

00:36:37Marc:Right.

00:36:38Marc:And we come back.

00:36:38Marc:We're like, well, that kind of got out of hand.

00:36:41Marc:So let's just go on with the show.

00:36:42Marc:We got all this mail from liberal people.

00:36:44Marc:Like, that wasn't right that you heard that.

00:36:46Marc:You know, I disagree with him, but I don't know what happened there.

00:36:49Guest:Right.

00:36:49Guest:It's the whole wrestling thing.

00:36:51Guest:If people ask, is wrestling real or is wrestling fake?

00:36:54Guest:If you say it's real, then they'll argue with you no matter what you say.

00:36:57Guest:No, it's not.

00:36:58Guest:It's not real.

00:36:58Guest:It's fake.

00:36:59Guest:They do some fake punching.

00:37:00Guest:If you say it's fake, they say, well, it's not totally fake.

00:37:03Guest:I mean, they're falling, right?

00:37:04Guest:So no matter what you say, they're going to argue with you.

00:37:06Marc:But the weird thing is, is that the emotions are real.

00:37:09Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:37:09Marc:That if you rock in, it doesn't matter.

00:37:11Marc:You know, no one's saying it's a sport.

00:37:14Marc:Right.

00:37:14Marc:It's wrestling.

00:37:14Marc:Right.

00:37:15Marc:But, you know, the idea is your suspension of disbelief and to get involved with these characters.

00:37:20Guest:Sure.

00:37:21Guest:I mean, I compare it to a movie all the time.

00:37:24Guest:There's movies out there.

00:37:25Guest:We know it's entertainment.

00:37:26Guest:It's not real.

00:37:27Guest:But I leave that theater sometimes and I'm like, God, my heart.

00:37:30Guest:Yeah, fucked up.

00:37:31Guest:Yeah, right?

00:37:32Guest:Yeah.

00:37:32Guest:But then there's some movies you walk out, like, yeah, I couldn't care less, right?

00:37:35Guest:Right.

00:37:35Guest:It's the same thing.

00:37:35Guest:There's wrestlers, some wrestlers that are so good at pulling your heartstrings, and there's some that, you know, they're just okay.

00:37:41Guest:Yeah, right.

00:37:42Guest:So the ones that can pull hearts, yeah, those are the ones.

00:37:45Marc:Those are the ones, yeah.

00:37:46Marc:So how does the job on GLOW, how did that come about?

00:37:51Guest:You know, that's kind of funny.

00:37:53Guest:Because you must have known the real GLOW Girls.

00:37:55Guest:Yes.

00:37:55Guest:My uncle, my Uncle Mano, was actually the original trainer of the original GLOW Girls.

00:38:00Guest:Right.

00:38:00Marc:And the one thing that's true about the show, even though it is almost all fiction, but based on the original GLOW idea, was that it really was conceived as a television show, right?

00:38:12Marc:Absolutely.

00:38:12Marc:To sort of make some money off of the wrestling craze.

00:38:15Guest:Right, right.

00:38:16Guest:Yeah, nobody had ever... Women were in wrestling, but, you know, very like a special attraction, basically.

00:38:22Guest:There was never a women's league.

00:38:23Guest:Like a second stage thing, like now we're going to have the ladies come out.

00:38:26Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:38:26Guest:Okay, now, okay.

00:38:27Guest:And then a midget would come out or a small person.

00:38:29Guest:We call them midgets on wrestling because that's just the way it is.

00:38:32Guest:Yeah.

00:38:33Guest:But, you know, or, you know, a guy would wrestle a bear, a special attraction.

00:38:37Guest:So the women would come out of special attractions.

00:38:40Guest:For the most part, then this guy put together the, you know, glow, this women's league, and it was just all women.

00:38:47Marc:And...

00:38:48Marc:From all different, like the show is sort of like honest in that they came from a lot of different types of lives.

00:38:54Marc:Yeah, they were dancers and actresses and models.

00:38:56Guest:Yeah.

00:38:57Guest:You know, same on our show.

00:38:58Guest:So basically, I had heard that they were that Genji Cohen, the executive producer, was was creating the show.

00:39:06Guest:And so I was like, oh, man, I got to get, I just got to get in the room with her.

00:39:10Guest:Yeah.

00:39:10Guest:So I made a couple calls and she was at, I think she was at William & Morris.

00:39:14Guest:So I pulled some strings and, you know, nothing happened.

00:39:18Guest:Yeah.

00:39:19Guest:Nothing happened.

00:39:19Guest:And so no connection.

00:39:21Guest:I was like, okay, whatever.

00:39:22Guest:So then I ended up going on vacation with my family to Lake Powell.

00:39:25Guest:And we got the boat out.

00:39:26Guest:We're heading out.

00:39:26Guest:And I get a call from...

00:39:30Guest:This girl named Shauna Duggins, who happens to be the stunt coordinator on the show called Glow.

00:39:38Guest:Right.

00:39:38Guest:And she's like, I was referred to you by this other lady wrestler that I talked to named Eve Torres.

00:39:45Guest:And I worked with her on Supergirl.

00:39:47Guest:And, you know, and I'm like, you got to be kidding me.

00:39:49Guest:Get the hell out of here.

00:39:50Guest:I was trying to get in touch with everybody.

00:39:52Guest:And they ended up contacting me.

00:39:54Guest:Right.

00:39:54Guest:So Shauna being awesome as she is, she...

00:39:57Guest:It was a stunt coordinator, but realized that she didn't know wrestling, that she needed somebody who actually was going to do the wrestling part.

00:40:03Guest:Yeah.

00:40:04Guest:They asked me to come in.

00:40:05Guest:They interviewed me.

00:40:06Guest:I had an interview at, you know, Jenji's offices.

00:40:11Guest:Compound her office down in Koreatown.

00:40:13Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:40:14Guest:With Carly and Liz, the creators.

00:40:15Guest:Carly and Liz.

00:40:15Guest:I mean, there was 15, 20 people in the room.

00:40:18Guest:Yeah.

00:40:18Guest:So we were in there, and then I was one of the last ones they interviewed, and it helped that one of the writers named Christopher Diaz

00:40:27Guest:wrote plays and he actually wrote a play called the um the legend of chad deity or something like that and it was based on me kind of yeah it was based on this wrestler that was that was really good he was so good at making other people look good that he was so good that nobody could make him look good so he's stuck in this role of making everybody look good all the time

00:40:50Guest:So, he kind of wrote it about me.

00:40:51Guest:So, we went and saw this place.

00:40:52Guest:So, he was a writer there.

00:40:54Guest:So, I'm having this interview with Liz and Carly and stuff.

00:40:57Guest:And I see this guy sitting there.

00:40:58Guest:And they're like, oh, somebody wants to say hi.

00:41:00Guest:And he's like, hey, man, I wrote that place.

00:41:02Guest:I was like, oh, yeah, we met, right?

00:41:03Guest:And he's like, yeah.

00:41:04Guest:So, he's like, man, you were great.

00:41:06Guest:And he put me over.

00:41:07Guest:So, that was like, oh, that helped.

00:41:10Guest:You know, I accept him at 20 bucks afterwards.

00:41:12Marc:Yeah.

00:41:12Marc:Who else are they going to get, though, on some level?

00:41:14Marc:I mean, who the hell were those other people?

00:41:15Marc:Yeah.

00:41:16Guest:i don't know you're the guy i guess man i don't know i'm trying to be so they hired you they hired me yeah and then you're like here's 14 girls that don't know anything about wrestling except for kia basically you know basically it was there's 14 girls that don't know anything about wrestling and then there's these writers and producers that don't know anything about wrestling there's these set designers that don't know anything about wrestling and

00:41:37Guest:there's all this stuff and i'm like oh shit so my my job broadened very fast yeah i mean i was having meetings with the writers and actually they were running scripts by me and terminology by me i was ordering the rings you know i'm like oh we can't use that ring why not that's a boxing ring it's totally different oh we didn't know i mean set design where should we put the ring i mean wardrobe it was crazy so what's your credit now producer not yet hopefully next season yeah

00:42:03Guest:we'll see we'll see sounds like it should be we'll see yeah i gave him one for free so we'll see yes you know what i i didn't even know either you know i just came in and really just came in to train these girls and and you know put some choreographing together and then shauna took me under her wing and then i was able to see what a stunt coordinator does yeah it was you know behind but you also had to make it legit yeah for sure

00:42:25Guest:And had to make sure these girls didn't get hurt.

00:42:27Guest:But the ring, I remember when the ring broke that day?

00:42:29Guest:Yeah.

00:42:30Guest:Holy shit.

00:42:31Guest:Yeah, we ran to that.

00:42:32Guest:One of the ring's posts broke.

00:42:34Guest:So what happened is that when we ordered two rings, the actual hero ring, we call it the set ring, they wanted it lower for camera-wise.

00:42:45Guest:So instead of making new posts and making a new ring, they actually cut the posts down.

00:42:49Guest:They welded them, right?

00:42:49Guest:They welded them down.

00:42:50Guest:Well, I guess they did it twice.

00:42:52Guest:They said, well, it's still not low enough.

00:42:53Guest:Do it again.

00:42:53Guest:So when they welded it,

00:42:55Guest:They didn't weld it correctly.

00:42:57Guest:The joint rope.

00:42:58Guest:Yeah.

00:42:59Guest:What was that guy's name?

00:43:01Guest:John Morrison.

00:43:03Guest:John Mundo is name too in Lucha Underground.

00:43:05Guest:But he's one of my good friends and he came in as one of the trainers on the show.

00:43:09Guest:Right.

00:43:09Marc:I did my scene with him.

00:43:10Marc:Yeah.

00:43:10Guest:Yeah.

00:43:10Guest:And he's a pretty big guy and he hit those ropes hard and it busted.

00:43:14Guest:Oh, that was scary.

00:43:15Guest:That sound.

00:43:15Guest:Everybody freaked out.

00:43:16Guest:everybody freaked out one of the i think jackie ton one of the uh the actresses starts crying oh yeah crying i'm like oh shit yeah but we got it straightened out and you know made the new ring yeah and what was the cat who you who work with you the hands-on dude oh um marty lies yeah yeah marty yeah marty was is my head referee at lucha underground and i've worked with him at wwe and other places you two guys were like the pros you're like the the authenticators yeah for sure we try to be you know

00:43:40Marc:So what was the, you know, how did you start?

00:43:42Marc:Because I missed all that.

00:43:43Marc:You know, I came in and they'd already been training for a few weeks.

00:43:47Marc:So like, you know, when you have somebody like Kia.

00:43:50Marc:Right.

00:43:50Guest:Who is a professional wrestler.

00:43:52Guest:Kia wrestled on their name, Awesome Kong.

00:43:54Guest:Yeah.

00:43:55Guest:Who was one of the best wrestlers in the world.

00:43:58Guest:Big, big stud of a girl, you know.

00:44:00Guest:And she comes in and I'd always known her at this Awesome Kong, this killer.

00:44:04Guest:Yeah.

00:44:04Guest:Then she comes in and she's so nice.

00:44:06Guest:Hi.

00:44:07Guest:I'm like, who the hell is this?

00:44:08Guest:Right?

00:44:09Guest:Yeah.

00:44:09Guest:So I get all these girls that have never stepped foot in a wrestling ring.

00:44:14Guest:A lot of them don't know what wrestling is.

00:44:16Guest:A lot of them have never done a sport in their life.

00:44:19Guest:I mean, literally, I line them up and say, have you all done any sports?

00:44:23Guest:I'm thinking soccer or basketball.

00:44:25Guest:They're like, well, I did dance.

00:44:27Guest:Another one's like, I was in a Shakespeare play.

00:44:30Guest:I'm like, oh, my God.

00:44:31Guest:But what happened is that every one of these girls became that we I was I really tried and Shauna Duggins and Helena Barrett, our other stunt girl, really, really tried to tap into their like their inner aspects.

00:44:46Guest:athlete, their inner strength.

00:44:48Guest:Right.

00:44:49Guest:And every one of these girls stepped up and became so good.

00:44:52Guest:And they didn't fall in love with wrestling.

00:44:54Guest:Yeah.

00:44:54Guest:Doing flips and falls and, you know, hitting the ropes and all different things.

00:44:59Guest:And funny story, about two weeks in, you know, I'm training them.

00:45:05Guest:We've ever been training for two weeks.

00:45:06Guest:Yeah.

00:45:07Guest:And I said something like, okay, so just, you know, cover the person and, you know, that's how you win.

00:45:12Guest:And they're like, what?

00:45:14Guest:And I go...

00:45:15Guest:wait a minute don't you know how to win you know and they're like no and i said hold on a second everybody stop practice hold on stop stop stop do you all know the rules of wrestling i just assume they did and they're like uh no and i'm like why didn't you all tell me they didn't know how to win like you know if you can get disqualification disqualified or tap somebody out right so okay i had to stop everybody and explain the wrestling rules i just didn't i

00:45:40Guest:They were just so hung up on the choreography and the move.

00:45:43Guest:Yeah, I assumed, you know, that basically they knew.

00:45:46Guest:And then we got people like Allison.

00:45:49Guest:Allison Bree was one of our leads.

00:45:52Guest:And she didn't really know anything about wrestling, but became really, really good.

00:45:56Guest:Actually, it was really great.

00:45:59Guest:She protects wrestling now.

00:46:01Guest:Like somebody, she did an interview and somebody was like, well, you know, the wrestling's fake.

00:46:03Guest:She's like, no, it's not.

00:46:05Guest:It's not all fake.

00:46:06Guest:And she said they're protecting.

00:46:07Guest:I'm like, all right.

00:46:08Guest:All right, girl, good, good.

00:46:10Guest:So these girls actually became like wrestlers and fell in love with wrestling.

00:46:13Guest:I get texts from them still all the time saying, hey, we really miss meeting in the ring.

00:46:19Marc:Yeah.

00:46:19Marc:Well, that's beautiful.

00:46:21Marc:That's cool.

00:46:21Marc:Because I think that if there's another season, there's going to be more wrestling.

00:46:25Marc:You think?

00:46:26Marc:Yeah, for sure.

00:46:26Marc:Yeah, because the first season is all building up to that first match.

00:46:33Marc:Right.

00:46:33Marc:And a lot of the girls didn't get in.

00:46:35Marc:Right.

00:46:35Marc:You know, there's only, like, really, I think, in the final match.

00:46:38Guest:Four or five matches.

00:46:39Guest:Yeah.

00:46:40Marc:Yeah.

00:46:40Marc:And it's going to be interesting to see, you know, to get them back in shape and then to get, like, get going again, doing some more matches.

00:46:47Guest:Some of the Netflix guys ask me, like, you know, wow.

00:46:50Marc:you know where do we go from here but you know did you teach him everything i'm like oh no yeah i taught him i taught him this much we i got so much more of my bag of tricks well i hope like in the next season that like you know that the match has become the sort of like uh at least you know half the season that would be moving towards these matches going out of town and stuff and you know dealing with you know the real kind you know seeing me evolve as a promoter or as a manager sure and then you're dealing with promoters yeah and that kind of stuff maybe get

00:47:19Guest:you in the ring right yeah that'd be awesome yeah i i have to yeah but uh but so so you feel that um you know most of them really got you they became sort of bottom level wrestlers yeah absolutely i i remember i wasn't teaching them to have a match at wrestlemania i was teaching them to on camera to look like they knew what they were doing in a scene right

00:47:41Guest:But at the same time, I had to make sure they were safe in the rink.

00:47:45Guest:So I really did train them from the ground up.

00:47:48Guest:We learned how to roll.

00:47:49Guest:We learned how to fall.

00:47:50Guest:We probably didn't even hit the ropes for the first two weeks, really.

00:47:54Guest:We learned the basics.

00:47:57Guest:It's just like building a house.

00:47:59Guest:I always use this terminology.

00:48:00Guest:If you build this beautiful house, but you don't build a good foundation, that house is going to crumble.

00:48:04Guest:I don't care how good those core beams are.

00:48:07Guest:It's the same thing with the wrestling.

00:48:08Guest:If you don't build that basis, that base, that foundation, which is protecting yourself and protecting your opponent, then you're going to get hurt.

00:48:18Marc:well it's so amazing because like you know when when i talk to you now that you that if you weren't there that the legitimacy of the thing might have been hurt you know in the sense that you know the fact was because i know liz and carly and i know the idea and it seemed like a good world and they are playwrights right so but you know just the fact of you know the nuts and bolts so liz and carly our other executive producers were so awesome in the fact that

00:48:41Guest:they actually wanted to be true to the wrestling world, and they didn't want to insult anybody.

00:48:47Guest:Even though they didn't know totally about wrestling, they didn't want to turn people off.

00:48:53Guest:Right.

00:48:53Guest:So I've had different talks with them, and they were really cool in letting me look at the scripts and kind of give my suggestions on what to change, what terminology to change, which different ways.

00:49:04Guest:I'm like, you can't say that because you're going to turn the wrestling community off because you're so loyal.

00:49:10Guest:Oh, okay, okay.

00:49:11Marc:So how about anything that made them look like they didn't know what they were talking about?

00:49:15Guest:Yes.

00:49:16Guest:Different terminology.

00:49:17Guest:But like they'd say, oh, well, you know, in one of the scenes, they're talking about wrestling being fake.

00:49:24Guest:I'm like, you just you can't say it like that.

00:49:27Guest:You can say it's entertainment or say it's a work or something like this.

00:49:30Guest:But if you say that, wrestling fans are going to go like, oh.

00:49:34Guest:We know, we're not stupid.

00:49:36Guest:We know, but we choose to believe.

00:49:39Guest:So you just don't want to turn anybody off.

00:49:43Guest:Right, fine line.

00:49:44Guest:Yeah, so they were really cool in changing terminology and changing wording, changing sentences.

00:49:50Guest:So I was really proud.

00:49:52Guest:I mean, my name's attached to it too, so I know it's not my project, but if the wrestling... But you're the wrestling guy.

00:49:59Guest:They're the ones who are going to look at me, the wrestling world's going to look at me and say, Chavo, you suck.

00:50:02Guest:Why'd you let that happen?

00:50:03Guest:Yes.

00:50:04Guest:You know, I'm like, I didn't write it.

00:50:05Guest:I'm not the boss, but it doesn't matter.

00:50:07Guest:They're going to point the finger at somebody.

00:50:08Guest:So, you know, hopefully I'm really proud of it.

00:50:11Guest:I think they're going to be super proud of it, too.

00:50:13Guest:So if hopefully they they are proud of it, they point the finger at me.

00:50:17Guest:Yeah.

00:50:17Marc:Yeah.

00:50:18Marc:And so I'm glad you got all this other stuff going on.

00:50:21Guest:Yeah, man.

00:50:22Guest:In Hollywood, you have to diversify a little bit.

00:50:24Guest:You can't just be an actor.

00:50:26Guest:You can't just be a stunt guy.

00:50:28Guest:You can't just be a producer.

00:50:29Guest:You kind of got to do everything.

00:50:30Marc:And then also, it was this amazing learning process for you to work with Sean.

00:50:33Marc:That stunt stuff was kind of amazing.

00:50:35Marc:Huge.

00:50:35Guest:It was a huge learning process.

00:50:36Marc:Because you had to show that.

00:50:37Marc:Yeah, well, well, when they had to do the stand and stuff and didn't take the hit.

00:50:43Guest:Yeah, for sure.

00:50:43Guest:Well, these girls were their stunt girls.

00:50:45Guest:So they it translates for sure.

00:50:47Guest:They they knew a lot of what they were doing.

00:50:49Guest:They just didn't know they knew.

00:50:50Guest:So, I mean, fall of that.

00:50:51Marc:It was just a form.

00:50:53Guest:Yeah, and they're gymnasts, too, so I was able to teach them certain moves and certain things, and they were great.

00:50:59Guest:They picked it up.

00:50:59Marc:It's like the whole thing, the whole coming together of the team and when I'd see all you guys working on it or see the matches and even the stunts, I found it very emotional because it's like, you know, it's real shit.

00:51:10Guest:Yeah, and we were pulling for the girls, and we were watching basically as their coaches.

00:51:15Guest:When they hit the move and hit the scene, we're like, yeah, we high-five each other.

00:51:18Guest:We're like, yes, that was great, awesome.

00:51:19Guest:And at the same time, I'm watching on camera and seeing the scene, see if it translated good in the scene, see if the camera caught that.

00:51:29Guest:But at the same time, I'm hoping these girls aren't breaking their necks.

00:51:31Guest:Oh, my God.

00:51:32Guest:Oh, they're okay.

00:51:33Marc:You don't want Allison to hurt herself.

00:51:35Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:51:36Marc:Or Betty or any of them.

00:51:37Marc:Yeah, absolutely.

00:51:38Marc:Yeah.

00:51:38Marc:And hopefully we can go back and do more.

00:51:41Marc:And it was certainly an honor, you know, working with you and talking to you.

00:51:45Marc:No, thanks for having me.

00:51:52Marc:Chavo Guerrero, the real deal from a family of real deals.

00:51:57Marc:Kind of heavy story, but also an amazing story about the process and about, you know, wrestle what it takes.

00:52:05Marc:You know, it's really cool is I did a radio show.

00:52:08Marc:I did Jim Norton, Jim and Sam show in New York, and I did it with Alison Brie and Sam.

00:52:16Marc:who's a huge wrestling fan was doing the the interviewing of uh of allison and he loves the show he loves um he loves glow but he's a huge wrestling fan so that's a good sign but one of the indicators one of the amazing things chavo was able to do and it dawned on me when i did uh when when sam was talking was that he was watching the moves that the women were doing and they would launch into a move and he would watch that move and

00:52:42Marc:And if they added on something that had been added on post 1986, if it was a move that didn't exist in the time that the show was set in, he was going to just abandon the whole series.

00:52:54Marc:It was that specific.

00:52:55Marc:He was like, I watched a move.

00:52:57Marc:I thought you were going to go into this other one.

00:52:59Marc:And you didn't.

00:53:00Marc:And thank God, because I would have had to stop watching the show.

00:53:03Marc:That's hardcore wrestling fan right there.

00:53:05Marc:And we wouldn't have known that.

00:53:07Marc:And if it weren't for Chavo, being on top of the credibility of the time period and the credibility of the process of wrestling, we would have lost Sam and probably a few other wrestling fans.

00:53:18Marc:But we did not.

00:53:20Marc:kia stevens is my next guest and this is a pretty insane story it's a great story and she was great uh on the show and she's an amazing professional wrestler as well but it sort of goes a different place at the end that you know there's a roundabout arc to her career and and what she was thinking and uh

00:53:39Marc:i was glad that we made time to do this this is me talking to uh to kia stevens or as you know her uh through her personas awesome kong uh or karma but this is a i i know her as kia so i went ahead and talked to kia

00:54:02Marc:You met Hollywood from The Real Glow.

00:54:05Guest:Yes.

00:54:06Marc:And you knew her from The Real Glow.

00:54:08Marc:Like you watched The Real Glow.

00:54:10Guest:I watched her from The Real Glow.

00:54:11Guest:And obsessed about her.

00:54:13Marc:Really?

00:54:13Guest:When you were a kid?

00:54:15Guest:Hollywood and Vine.

00:54:16Guest:Yeah.

00:54:16Guest:Because they were so evil.

00:54:17Guest:yeah when did you you watched it when how old were you when you first saw it i was eight and a half nine where were you where'd you grow up in carson california where the hell is that that's next to compton and long beach oh okay and that's uh that was the that was the childhood you were there watching glow watching glow yeah asked santa claus to make me glow girl did you really yep

00:54:41Guest:I asked Santa Claus to make me a glow girl, and I asked for a Barbies and a rocker van.

00:54:47Marc:Uh-huh.

00:54:48Guest:And I got the van.

00:54:49Marc:And now you're a glow girl.

00:54:50Guest:And now I'm a glow girl.

00:54:52Guest:But it's funny, because the show got canceled really soon after that Christmas.

00:54:57Guest:Yeah.

00:54:57Guest:And I was like, there is some Santa Claus.

00:55:00Guest:He is not real.

00:55:02Guest:Go screw yourself.

00:55:03Guest:But the magic is real.

00:55:04Guest:I can confirm that the magic is real.

00:55:06Marc:So do you remember wanting to be a wrestler at that age?

00:55:11Guest:yeah eight or nine yeah how many kids were in your family three so it was you and what two what older sister younger brother and my younger brother would torture me because he watched all kinds of wrestling he's the original wrestling fan in the family okay three years younger but he was the baby yeah so it was like you know my mom's like don't touch

00:55:31Guest:My baby.

00:55:32Guest:So he got to torture us, but we could never reciprocate.

00:55:34Marc:Couldn't beat him up.

00:55:35Guest:No.

00:55:36Guest:Could not beat up her.

00:55:37Guest:Her lone son heir.

00:55:39Guest:We couldn't beat up the little prince.

00:55:40Guest:Yeah.

00:55:41Guest:And he would practice moves on me.

00:55:43Guest:He would always, every Saturday, he would put me in the camel clutch.

00:55:48Guest:Uh-huh.

00:55:48Guest:And he would, you know, he's younger, so he'd wear, like, dirty underoos where the Superman was, like, black, but they didn't sell him black, you know?

00:55:55Guest:Yeah.

00:55:56Guest:It was just like, this is gross.

00:55:58Guest:And I had to wait till my mom came in.

00:55:59Guest:I'm like, ah, let the girl go.

00:56:00Marc:yeah so so it was in your house like this kid is he still a wrestling fan yeah yeah somewhat not not as right much as i am but yeah he he knows his wrestling history and whatnot well the weird thing was is like i don't like i you know i certainly respect and appreciate wrestling but having not grown up with it or being a fan of it when i go to look at like your wikipedia page or something i'm like who the fuck wrote this

00:56:23Marc:some fan like I don't know who I haven't read it lately no but it's just the rabbit hole of it like this guy's talking about things like deep wrestling like all these different you know associations federations where you were matches you did like it had to be either somebody that works for you or like a real fan real fans there are people that come up to me and tell and know more about me than I do and they'll be like you know March of 2005 that match when I'm like

00:56:52Marc:yep yes i so remember that i mean because i was reading it and i'm like oh my god i don't know if i can go this deep in this stuff like it was intimidating but i guess like anything else there are people that are just obsessed with it yes and they and you're like one of their heroes i am i'm actually one of them i was so obsessed i became a wrestler well how how obsessed were you when you were a kid did you go to matches

00:57:18Guest:No, because he didn't travel much on the West Side.

00:57:21Guest:You know, we would go to, like, closed-circuit television viewings.

00:57:27Guest:Yeah.

00:57:27Guest:But not so much live tapings.

00:57:31Guest:However...

00:57:34Guest:Still, I obsessed over it.

00:57:35Guest:And then I took a little break, you know, in my teen years.

00:57:38Guest:I got into other things like, you know, New Kids on the Block and whatnot.

00:57:42Marc:Right, right.

00:57:43Marc:The regular pop culture.

00:57:44Guest:You know, the regular pop culture.

00:57:46Guest:And then when the Attitude Era came around.

00:57:50Marc:Will I explain that to me?

00:57:51Guest:The Attitude Era with Stone Cold Steve Austin and The Rock and Triple H. When that popped up real big in the Monday Night Wars between WWE and WCW, then I got re-immersed in wrestling.

00:58:06Guest:And I was like, yeah.

00:58:07Marc:As a grown-up, kind of.

00:58:08Guest:As a grown-up.

00:58:09Marc:What does Attitude Era stand for?

00:58:11Marc:Why do they call it that?

00:58:13Guest:Because...

00:58:15Guest:Like back then it was like they would cut promos and not give a fuck.

00:58:21Guest:Right.

00:58:21Guest:Just like really raw promos and go out there and it was like not as campy.

00:58:28Marc:So that's what got you like back in it.

00:58:32Marc:Yes.

00:58:32Marc:Because it was so raw.

00:58:34Guest:It was so raw.

00:58:35Guest:Who were your favorite guys?

00:58:37Guest:Stone Cold Steve Austin, Mick Foley, and The Rock.

00:58:40Guest:At the time, I was a social worker, and in my office, it was just NSYNC, The Rock, and Harry Potter.

00:58:47Guest:That was my obsession.

00:58:51Marc:So you were a social worker.

00:58:53Marc:So you studied social work in college, and you became a social worker?

00:58:57Marc:Yes.

00:58:58Yes.

00:58:58Marc:Really?

00:58:59Guest:Yeah.

00:59:00Guest:I didn't finish my degree.

00:59:01Guest:Right.

00:59:02Guest:All you had to be was like six months away.

00:59:05Marc:Yeah.

00:59:05Guest:And I was like six months away for like two years.

00:59:09Marc:Yeah.

00:59:09Marc:I stretched that out like really long.

00:59:12Marc:No reason to rush.

00:59:14Guest:Right?

00:59:14Guest:Yeah.

00:59:14Guest:I'm doing a good job here.

00:59:16Guest:so what like what is a what i'm fascinated with social work because i don't talk to many people and i don't know what happens there what how do you work for this city then or how does it work well i worked for a group home called saint anne okay in los angeles yeah and i started off as like a social work counselor and i actually moved to their i became their activities director

00:59:39Guest:Because I love to do fun stuff.

00:59:41Guest:And so from there, I kind of went sideways and got into the more really social aspect of it.

00:59:48Guest:Because I worked with pregnant and parenting teenagers.

00:59:52Guest:And they needed a break every now and then.

00:59:55Guest:So I'd find activities for them to...

00:59:58Guest:Get away.

00:59:59Marc:Get away from the kid?

01:00:00Guest:Yeah, get away from the kid or how to bond with their kid on an activity for a very low budget.

01:00:05Guest:So when they graduated out of St.

01:00:07Guest:Anne's, they knew how to do that.

01:00:09Marc:Right.

01:00:10Marc:So you were actually at St.

01:00:12Marc:Anne's doing that?

01:00:13Marc:That was where your office was?

01:00:15Guest:Yeah.

01:00:16Marc:Wow.

01:00:16Marc:How long did you do that for?

01:00:17Guest:I did that for about three years.

01:00:20Marc:Was it rewarding?

01:00:21Guest:It was very rewarding.

01:00:22Guest:Yeah.

01:00:23Guest:Yeah.

01:00:23Guest:I loved it to see the kids grow up and to see them learn life skills.

01:00:28Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:00:29Guest:And they would come back and say hello once they left St.

01:00:32Guest:Anne's and they're doing really well.

01:00:34Guest:And now some of them on Facebook, they find me and they're doing really well.

01:00:39Guest:Shout out to Teresa Alvarado.

01:00:41Marc:Yeah.

01:00:41Marc:That's great.

01:00:43Marc:But wrestling was too much of a draw for you.

01:00:46Guest:Yes.

01:00:47Guest:I mean, just, you know, working in a group home, these girls lived there.

01:00:51Marc:Right.

01:00:51Guest:And there were times we had to separate fights and chairs are flying.

01:00:55Guest:And I'm like, shit, if I'm going to get hit by a chair, I wanted to be, you know, in front of 30,000 people.

01:01:00Guest:Yeah.

01:01:01Marc:Now, when it's a group home and they're there because they've been put there by the state or they had drug problems or what?

01:01:09Marc:How does that work with a group home?

01:01:12Guest:Sometimes both.

01:01:15Guest:Maybe they were in a regular group home.

01:01:16Guest:They got pregnant, so we took them in.

01:01:19Guest:Maybe their parents are like,

01:01:20Guest:really really old school instead of the convent we got them right because we we were like a catholic uh related organization yeah we had sisters we had nuns running around the place and stuff yeah and uh shout out to sister anthony claire um

01:01:36Guest:yeah so we got all types and it was so odd because we got a 10 year old once pregnant and it was just like what and her baby daddy was like 40 something really oh it was just like you know did he go to jail that guy no no and it was so hard to keep them you know because they would have to sign out to go on leave and then sometimes he'd like be around the corner to pick her up and it would just enrage you like just like

01:02:03Guest:you what the fuck so-and-so she's 10 and she like she just turned 11 like two weeks after she got to us but when she we got her she was 10 years old was she able to have the baby yes oh my god she's very grown for her age but she shouldn't have been she was 10 years old you know but she had been grown up in the system you know so it it's amazing how grown up you have to be when you grow up in the system well i just don't understand why a guy like that doesn't get busted

01:02:33Guest:They worked on it.

01:02:34Marc:Yeah?

01:02:35Guest:Yeah.

01:02:35Marc:And it didn't happen.

01:02:37Guest:I was gone by the time I didn't see that.

01:02:39Guest:So we don't know.

01:02:40Guest:We don't know.

01:02:40Marc:You don't know how that battle ended.

01:02:42Marc:No.

01:02:42Marc:So you were there for like three years.

01:02:44Marc:What made wrestling like a practical thing in your head?

01:02:47Marc:Like how did that, how did you realize, how did you decide like, I can just do this.

01:02:52Marc:There's a path.

01:02:53Guest:It was like a joke that went really, really far.

01:02:57Guest:Like it just kept going and then it turned into a career.

01:03:02Guest:I thought because once I left St.

01:03:05Guest:Ann's, I actually went over to an organization called L.A.

01:03:08Guest:Shanti and headed up their youth program.

01:03:11Guest:And then I had my own business because I went on Wheel of Fortune, won like 10 grand.

01:03:14Guest:And I was like, OK.

01:03:15Guest:Wait, you went on Wheel of Fortune?

01:03:16Guest:I went on Wheel of Fortune.

01:03:19Guest:Do you have video of that?

01:03:21Guest:I don't.

01:03:22Guest:I'm sure like ABC or whomever does.

01:03:24Guest:But yeah, second generation because my mom went on Will of Fortune too.

01:03:28Guest:She did?

01:03:29Guest:Yeah.

01:03:29Guest:So you're like a legacy?

01:03:30Marc:Yeah, I'm on Will of Fortune legacy.

01:03:33Marc:So they let you in and it's like, oh yeah, her mom was on.

01:03:35Marc:Yeah.

01:03:35Guest:Come on in.

01:03:36Marc:We love legacies around here.

01:03:37Guest:Did you tell Pat that?

01:03:39Guest:I did.

01:03:41Guest:And Vanna.

01:03:42Guest:They were great.

01:03:43Guest:I didn't get to the last round, but I got enough money to be very happy.

01:03:47Guest:And I bought a vending business.

01:03:51Guest:And then so I was doing very well at a very young age.

01:03:54Marc:That's interesting.

01:03:54Marc:I know another guy did that vending business.

01:03:56Marc:Him and his brother did it in like, I think in Philly or somewhere.

01:03:59Marc:You just what?

01:04:00Marc:You bought a bunch of machines?

01:04:01Marc:Yep.

01:04:01Marc:And how does that work?

01:04:03Marc:You just go around and say, can I put a machine here?

01:04:05Guest:Well, you can find a company that will contract, find a contract for you.

01:04:10Guest:And then they'll supply you with the machine and the contract with, you know, a business, a business park office or somewhere.

01:04:18Guest:And you just go in every so often and fill up the machines and collect your money.

01:04:22Marc:And you were doing good with that?

01:04:24Guest:I was doing, you know, I think if I stuck around with it and bought more machines, I would have done really well.

01:04:30Guest:But I had like three machines and I liked it.

01:04:33Marc:Yeah.

01:04:34Marc:You had three machines.

01:04:35Guest:I had three machines and they pulled off about $200 each a week, which was fair.

01:04:41Guest:And then I had the heading up L.A.

01:04:44Guest:Shanti.

01:04:44Guest:So I was doing very good.

01:04:45Marc:What's LA Shantae exactly?

01:04:47Guest:LA Shantae was an organization, a nonprofit for AIDS awareness.

01:04:53Guest:And I headed up their STAR program, which was somebody's talking about HIV risk.

01:04:57Guest:And it was a youth program.

01:04:58Guest:We would go around to the schools and talk about HIV risk.

01:05:02Guest:Wow.

01:05:03Marc:So you really were out there helping the people.

01:05:05Guest:Yes.

01:05:06Guest:I'm all about community.

01:05:07Guest:Yeah.

01:05:08Guest:My house burned down twice when I was a kid, and we got a lot of help to rebuild.

01:05:12Guest:And I learned from that.

01:05:12Marc:How does your house burn down twice?

01:05:14I know, right?

01:05:14Guest:The first time was an electrical fire.

01:05:22Guest:My little brother burnt some toast.

01:05:23Guest:They turned on the fan and the fire started in the wall.

01:05:26Marc:That's horrible because you don't see it.

01:05:28Guest:You don't see it.

01:05:28Marc:It happened in my house when I was a kid.

01:05:30Guest:The whole house was asleep.

01:05:31Guest:We had just returned from Knott's Berry Farm real late the night before, and all I knew was I was asleep one minute, and then I was sitting on the curb the next.

01:05:38Guest:Yeah.

01:05:38Guest:That's all I knew, and the house was on fire.

01:05:40Guest:Oh, my God.

01:05:41Guest:The next time, my play, my godbrother was in my room, of course, and was taking a nap, but he decided to light my pom-poms on fire.

01:05:52Guest:And if you remember pom-poms back in the day, they were very flammable.

01:05:55Guest:So you light it.

01:05:56Guest:I mean, it just went up, and it burnt only my room.

01:06:00Guest:Yeah.

01:06:01Guest:And all my Cabbage Patch Kids dolls and my Barbies and the Rockers van went up in smoke.

01:06:07Guest:And then the rest of the house got really bad smoke damage.

01:06:10Guest:But by God's grace, no one died.

01:06:12Marc:Good.

01:06:13Marc:Either time.

01:06:14Guest:Either time.

01:06:14Marc:So, okay.

01:06:15Marc:So how does the joke of wrestling start?

01:06:17Guest:my brother-in-law was watching MTV and there was a show called, uh, tough enough.

01:06:25Guest:Yeah.

01:06:25Guest:And it was like, you know, if you want to be a WWE wrestler, you can come and try out and live in the house, like the real world, basically.

01:06:31Guest:And then at the end,

01:06:32Guest:Whoever's left standing gets a WWE contract.

01:06:35Guest:And this is back when computers and the internet's kind of new.

01:06:39Guest:And he's like, can you get me the application?

01:06:41Guest:And he said it's online.

01:06:42Guest:I don't know what that means.

01:06:43Guest:And I'm like, OK, yeah.

01:06:44Guest:I download it.

01:06:45Guest:I download one for myself, too.

01:06:47Guest:And I fill it out for shits and giggles.

01:06:48Guest:And I send it in.

01:06:49Guest:And I get a call saying, hey, come out to Vegas.

01:06:52Guest:We have this big audition.

01:06:53Guest:And I go out there.

01:06:55Guest:And I stand in this line with thousands of other people.

01:06:57Guest:And I get in the ring.

01:07:00Guest:And they're like, yeah, no, you're too overweight to ever be successful in wrestling.

01:07:06Guest:And I was like, what?

01:07:09Guest:I did not drive my Kia.

01:07:11Guest:Yes, my name is Kia and I drive a Kia.

01:07:13Guest:I did not drive my Kia through those mountains for you to tell me that.

01:07:16Guest:I wouldn't get out the ring.

01:07:17Guest:I was like, no, somebody else is asking me some other questions because me and my mom and my best friend, no.

01:07:22Guest:My last little chick, no.

01:07:24Guest:Somebody's asking me some more questions.

01:07:25Guest:And they did, but still they were like, shoo, shoo.

01:07:28Marc:Oh, really?

01:07:28Marc:Yeah.

01:07:29Marc:So that gave you this, you wanted revenge.

01:07:33Guest:Well, I just wanted to say, no, don't dismiss me like that.

01:07:36Guest:So fire got put under my butt, and another friend of mine said, hey, there's a show, you know, if weight's the problem, there's a show on Discovery Channel called Body Challenge.

01:07:49Guest:Yeah.

01:07:50Guest:And so it was kind of like The Biggest Loser, but way before The Biggest Loser came about.

01:07:55Guest:And so I was actually too big for them, too.

01:07:57Guest:They were like, you know what?

01:07:58Guest:Yeah.

01:07:58Guest:You're bigger than what we wanted to work with, but you are so fun and bubbly.

01:08:03Guest:We're going to take you on.

01:08:06Guest:I'm just too big for the world.

01:08:09Marc:An insult, but a compliment.

01:08:11Guest:But a compliment.

01:08:13Guest:And so they knew what I wanted to be a wrestler, and they found a wrestling school out in San Bernardino, School of Hard Knocks.

01:08:19Guest:And I started training there, and they set up a wrestling match for me.

01:08:24Marc:Is that a famous place?

01:08:25No.

01:08:25Marc:school are not yeah in the wrestling industry uh yeah very respectable school head by jesse hernandez before i go on though it's like i like that you know your your avenue was always like through being a contestant right i had to crawl my way and scratch it win 10 grand and wheel fortune and i'm gonna i'm gonna be a contestant on this mtv thing

01:08:47Guest:You put that together, yes.

01:08:50Marc:Then I got... Here's the other angle.

01:08:51Guest:There's a weight loss show.

01:08:52Guest:You can win a trip to Hawaii.

01:08:55Marc:I'm going.

01:08:56Marc:I love it.

01:08:57Marc:But this was a school... Okay, so it's a respectable school.

01:09:01Marc:The guy's a real wrestler.

01:09:02Marc:Is it affiliated with a league as well?

01:09:05Marc:Do they do matches?

01:09:06Guest:They do do matches.

01:09:07Guest:Empire Wrestling Federation, EWF, is their affiliate wrestling federation.

01:09:12Guest:They do all kinds of matches all over Southern California.

01:09:14Marc:So when you get there, what's the reaction?

01:09:17Guest:A little skeptical because, you know, I'm brand new to wrestling.

01:09:21Guest:And when you come into wrestling.

01:09:22Guest:And you're a contestant.

01:09:23Guest:And I'm like this contestant on the show and I got cameras with me and they're like, oh, here's this bitch with the big head.

01:09:29Guest:She's got cameras.

01:09:30Guest:She's, you know, sweaty and snotty.

01:09:33Guest:But I don't think at the beginning, I don't think they thought I was taking it seriously.

01:09:38Guest:Like I was going to be this fly by night person.

01:09:40Guest:Right.

01:09:40Guest:That once the cameras is gone, I wasn't going to be interested in wrestling anymore.

01:09:44Guest:Right.

01:09:44Marc:And they probably thought, well, this will get promotion for the school, too.

01:09:47Guest:Yeah, so why not do it?

01:09:49Guest:And it did.

01:09:50Guest:And they still put on the company's doing great to this day, EWF.

01:09:57Marc:So you stayed there and trained, though.

01:09:58Marc:You shot with the show.

01:10:00Guest:Yes.

01:10:01Marc:And how long did that go on for, that show?

01:10:03Marc:Did anything come out of that?

01:10:05Marc:Did you lose the weight you wanted to?

01:10:06Guest:I did lose the weight that I wanted to.

01:10:08Guest:I got very fit.

01:10:10Guest:And then they had set up a surprise meeting with Chyna.

01:10:15Guest:May she rest in peace at the time.

01:10:17Guest:And she was going back and forth to Japan.

01:10:19Guest:And so I went over to the New Japan Dojo to meet her.

01:10:24Marc:where's that that was in west that was like in santa monica west los angeles wait now what is okay so wait let's let's back up a minute so you train for a while you learn how to wrestle yeah about two months only two months i mean what do you learn that you learn basic moves and you what do you learn i basically knew how to run the ropes yeah throw a clothesline and of course our foundation of taking bumps falling and right right sure okay so you knew that stuff i knew that

01:10:49Marc:So Chyna, you met her or?

01:10:52Guest:I met her.

01:10:53Guest:They had like, you know, for a segment of the show.

01:10:55Guest:Oh, right.

01:10:56Guest:Meet your hero.

01:10:56Guest:Meet your hero, you know.

01:10:58Guest:Yeah.

01:10:59Guest:And it was so funny because at the time I was a real big Lita fan and they kept trying to make me say that Chyna was my number one.

01:11:05Guest:And I was like, no, but I'm a really big Lita fan.

01:11:09Guest:I like Chyna, but we're a really big Lita fan.

01:11:10Guest:They were like, but if you could just say.

01:11:13Marc:Yeah.

01:11:13Marc:So when you meet her, it seems like it means more.

01:11:16Guest:Right.

01:11:16Guest:But it did.

01:11:17Guest:I popped huge.

01:11:18Guest:I love her to death.

01:11:20Guest:And since she was doing that back and forth, there was a woman's promotion, All Japan Women.

01:11:26Guest:And All Japan Women in Japan was huge in the 80s and early 90s.

01:11:32Guest:I mean, just a magnet.

01:11:36Marc:For wrestling fans.

01:11:37Guest:For wrestling.

01:11:38Guest:And just to work as well.

01:11:40Guest:General pop culture, it's like a Japanese national treasure of male women.

01:11:45Marc:And they had an office in LA?

01:11:47Guest:No.

01:11:48Guest:He came out just to find some talent for a big show that they had.

01:11:53Guest:And me and another friend of mine, Shelly, we tried out.

01:11:57Guest:And she had years and years of experience.

01:12:00Guest:And I just went just to figure out what you'd want to try out.

01:12:05Guest:Chose me.

01:12:06Guest:And I think mainly he chose me because I didn't have experience and they could train me and mold me the way they wanted to and not have to strip down any bad habits I had developed.

01:12:17Marc:Right.

01:12:17Marc:But they saw the skill.

01:12:18Marc:They saw that you could be a character, that you could do the thing.

01:12:21Guest:Yes.

01:12:22Guest:I mean, because I grew up in high school, I was a cheerleader, so I knew how to base very well, and that's very important.

01:12:28Marc:Base, what does that mean?

01:12:29Guest:Like, if you're going to throw somebody or have to hold them up in the air, I know how to hold somebody up in the air and I drop them on their head.

01:12:36Guest:You get that from cheerleading, you know?

01:12:37Guest:Because wrestling is like a big dance, a big, like, slam dance, you know?

01:12:42Guest:So I knew how to do that, and they could see that foundation, and they chose to bring me on and work with me.

01:12:47Guest:And you go to Japan?

01:12:49Guest:I go to Japan.

01:12:49Guest:Yeah.

01:12:50Guest:And my job let me go for a week.

01:12:53Marc:At the... L.A.

01:12:55Guest:Shanti.

01:12:56Marc:Yeah, okay.

01:12:57Marc:So they choose you.

01:12:58Marc:You go to L.A.

01:12:59Marc:for a week, or you go to Japan for a week.

01:13:01Marc:What do you do?

01:13:02Marc:It's weird.

01:13:04Marc:It must be amazing to go to Japan the first time.

01:13:06Guest:It was.

01:13:06Marc:I want to go to Japan.

01:13:07Marc:I've never been to Japan.

01:13:08Guest:Very nervous.

01:13:09Guest:They gave me some tapes of Japanese women's wrestling, and it was wild.

01:13:13Marc:How is it different?

01:13:14Guest:It's just so, like, in America, you can go, like, 12 minutes, and in the first three, four minutes, you're talking and jibber-jabbering.

01:13:24Guest:In Japan, you ring that bell, you're fighting.

01:13:30Guest:I mean, for a good 20, 30 minutes, you are going at it.

01:13:33Guest:Hardly, you know, in America, well...

01:13:35Guest:hit each other and we'll sell it a lot in japan they'll hit each other and get right back up and start just clawing at each other so it's really about the the fight yes i mean it's not about the show yeah no it's about this you know they report kayfabe um which is like how we separate the magic from the viewers yeah um is alive and well in japan like they report on wrestling in japan like it's a sport like right next to baseball and basketball they report on wrestling that way

01:14:05Marc:uh-huh so so it's integrated into the culture and nobody sits around going like yeah not real yeah they kind of you know they kind of ignore the right right the script the script of it yeah so are the are the characters as defined there as they are in the states like i mean do like the like the people their their personas are they as you know dramatic and well-defined

01:14:27Guest:Some are.

01:14:29Marc:Yeah.

01:14:29Guest:Some are, but most are filled with the fighting spirit.

01:14:34Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:14:34Guest:Yeah.

01:14:35Guest:Just all about the fire.

01:14:37Guest:Yeah.

01:14:37Guest:Can you get back up after being slammed down by a person of my size?

01:14:43Marc:Right.

01:14:43Marc:Where is that fire?

01:14:44Marc:Right.

01:14:45Marc:Right.

01:14:45Marc:And that's what's driving it, not ridiculous persona?

01:14:50Guest:Not ridiculous.

01:14:51Guest:No, not driving it.

01:14:53Guest:But you have a few, which makes it still fun.

01:14:56Marc:So when you get there, you've got a limited amount of experience.

01:15:00Marc:And so what transpires and what ultimately makes you decide to do it for life?

01:15:05Guest:Let me see.

01:15:08Guest:It's weird because my first wrestling name was Vixen.

01:15:12Marc:That was from here.

01:15:13Guest:That was from here.

01:15:15Guest:And I wore black leather because I just got fit.

01:15:18Guest:I had big boobs and a big butt and a small waist.

01:15:20Guest:Yeah.

01:15:22Guest:So I go to Japan and they want to name me Amazing Kong.

01:15:28Guest:And I didn't know how to feel about that.

01:15:31Yeah.

01:15:31Marc:Just in what it implied in American culture?

01:15:35Guest:Yes.

01:15:36Guest:I was like, I don't know if y'all know what that might mean in America.

01:15:44Guest:Actually, this happened before I even went, because I went to the dojo, the New Japan dojo in L.A., and one of the wrestlers, Shinsuke Nakamura, who's a WWE wrestler now, was like, oh, Amazing Kong.

01:15:58Guest:And he points at me and calls me Kong, and I'm like, what the fuck?

01:16:00Guest:Did you just call me?

01:16:02Guest:What is this?

01:16:03Guest:What kind of racist country am I going to?

01:16:06Guest:And then he had told me a magazine article saying, no, they named you Amazing Kong.

01:16:11Guest:And I'm like, oh, OK.

01:16:14Marc:Without you really getting into it?

01:16:15Guest:Yeah, without even asking me or anything.

01:16:18Marc:Well, what is the history of the name?

01:16:20Marc:What does it mean in Japan?

01:16:23Guest:Well, you know, it denotes strength more than a racial slur.

01:16:28Guest:And there's a wrestler named Aja Kong who is extremely famous in Japan.

01:16:33Guest:But at the time, I didn't really know about Aja's background.

01:16:39Guest:I hadn't been immersed in Japanese women's wrestling.

01:16:43Guest:But I went home and I thought about it.

01:16:46Guest:And it's so funny, an NWA song came on.

01:16:49Guest:And I was like, well, if NWA...

01:16:52Guest:Can be niggas with attitude and own it.

01:16:55Guest:Yeah.

01:16:55Guest:You know.

01:16:56Guest:Right.

01:16:57Guest:I could be awesome or amazing Kong and own it and make that name mean something.

01:17:02Guest:Yes.

01:17:03Guest:And so when people hear amazing Kong, they fear and they respect that name.

01:17:09Guest:Yeah.

01:17:09Guest:Does that.

01:17:10Marc:Right, right, right.

01:17:11Marc:There's no implication.

01:17:12Guest:There's no implication.

01:17:13Guest:And then I get to do, if I get to a place, you know, if I'm famous enough, I get to a place where I get to help somebody else, then that endearment was worth it.

01:17:22Marc:Right.

01:17:22Marc:And you did it.

01:17:23Marc:You pulled it off.

01:17:24Guest:Yes.

01:17:25Marc:Yeah.

01:17:26Marc:So now are your folks supportive of this whole adventure of you entering and becoming a professional wrestler?

01:17:33Guest:Yes, well, they're supportive of everything I do, but it's always like Kia's on an adventure.

01:17:39Guest:Yeah.

01:17:40Guest:I was like, okay, okay.

01:17:40Guest:So now she's going to be a wrestler, y'all.

01:17:44Guest:Yeah, right.

01:17:45Guest:Now she's going to be a wrestler.

01:17:47Guest:What else are you going to do?

01:17:48Guest:You know, you're going to jump out of planes next year because you're always into something.

01:17:52Guest:Right, but this one's stuck, I guess.

01:17:54Guest:This one's stuck.

01:17:55Marc:So once you get identified as Awesome Kong and you accept it, you move to Japan?

01:18:00Guest:Yes, because the L.A.

01:18:02Guest:Shanti wouldn't let me go a second time.

01:18:04Guest:And I had no, this was just for one show.

01:18:08Guest:And I had no like real security.

01:18:11Guest:I had some savings, but like four, six months worth of savings.

01:18:15Guest:Vending machines are gone.

01:18:16Guest:Vending machines.

01:18:16Guest:I sold my vending machines and I just sold everything.

01:18:20Guest:But I took a chance.

01:18:21Guest:I said, this is what I want to do.

01:18:23Guest:When I have kids, I want to tell them I did something wild and crazy when I was younger.

01:18:27Guest:Because if I'm a social worker now or in this business now, I can always come back to it.

01:18:33Guest:So why not take a chance and spend – my plan was to devote five years and immerse myself in everything wrestling and see what happens after that.

01:18:44Guest:And, yeah, it worked.

01:18:45Marc:And you went to Japan.

01:18:46Guest:I went to Japan.

01:18:47Marc:And you became a huge wrestling star.

01:18:49Guest:Yes.

01:18:50Marc:Awesome Kong.

01:18:51Guest:Amazing Kong there.

01:18:52Guest:Amazing Kong.

01:18:53Guest:Amazing Kong there.

01:18:54Guest:Awesome Kong here.

01:18:55Marc:But Kong stuck.

01:18:55Guest:Kong stuck.

01:18:58Guest:Couldn't shake the Kong.

01:19:01Marc:Now, I have to assume that you're an anomaly.

01:19:08Marc:You're, like, different in Japan.

01:19:11Marc:Yes.

01:19:12Marc:Like, it must have been sort of historical on some level.

01:19:15Guest:Yeah.

01:19:16Guest:Semi.

01:19:16Guest:You know, Aja was half black and half Japanese.

01:19:21Guest:But, I mean, I'm a darker shade of black.

01:19:23Guest:Yeah.

01:19:24Guest:So, I mean, I came out as a heel heel.

01:19:26Guest:Yeah.

01:19:27Guest:And it's so funny because...

01:19:30Guest:I worked with the sweetest people who just cared for me totally out there.

01:19:34Guest:But they would do the most, they would request the most stereotypical stuff of me.

01:19:40Guest:And I'm like, I don't think y'all understand.

01:19:42Guest:That's not what all black people are about.

01:19:45Guest:Like what we did on GLOW?

01:19:46Guest:Almost beyond.

01:19:50Guest:Like, you know, they were like, can you dance?

01:19:51Guest:You go in the ring and you dance.

01:19:54Marc:So you're there for how many years?

01:19:58Guest:Six.

01:20:00Guest:Wow.

01:20:01Guest:Six years.

01:20:02Guest:I thought I'd only stay for two.

01:20:03Guest:I was like, I'll stay for two.

01:20:04Marc:And you're like a champion.

01:20:05Marc:You're like the.

01:20:06Marc:Yes.

01:20:07Marc:And you're doing both heel and face.

01:20:08Guest:Heel and face and tweener.

01:20:10Guest:You know, it was just, you know.

01:20:12Marc:Tweeners.

01:20:13Marc:What is that?

01:20:13Guest:in between oh really like you know depending on who you face you know if you're facing a certain kind of face yeah uh or a certain kind of heel maybe you're in between just because of the size difference and it was like you know almost case by case but if you're facing the favorite face then you are seriously the heel yeah so i was a tweener and how did how did the structure of the shows like evolve was there a staff of writers how did they do it there

01:20:38Guest:there was mostly a staff of bookers.

01:20:42Guest:Yeah.

01:20:42Guest:They didn't really write much.

01:20:44Guest:There was no script.

01:20:45Guest:No, okay.

01:20:45Guest:They would just have the lineup, and then maybe at the end of the show, somebody would cut a promo that would...

01:20:55Guest:entice people to come to the next show okay you know like next you know next show i'm gonna challenge you for the belt but not as intricate as in america with all the storylines we have in america not as intricate somewhat but not really so i guess that goes back again to that the the the reality was it was about fighting more than character yeah so you know like you're not you're not necessarily following the line of like a character through the years no like right

01:21:23Guest:I mean, but you have a character.

01:21:24Guest:Yeah, right.

01:21:24Guest:Mine was just beastly.

01:21:26Marc:Yeah.

01:21:29Guest:Which is why I got really good with telling expressions on my face, because the first six months a year, I didn't really speak that great of Japanese.

01:21:37Guest:Right.

01:21:38Guest:So I just had to tell my story with my face.

01:21:40Marc:Well, they have a history of that, too, don't they?

01:21:42Marc:Like Kabuki Theater and whatnot.

01:21:44Marc:Yeah.

01:21:45Marc:Yeah.

01:21:46Marc:So you learn Japanese?

01:21:48Guest:Yeah.

01:21:49Marc:Yeah.

01:21:49Guest:Yeah.

01:21:50Marc:You can do it.

01:21:51Guest:Yes.

01:21:52Guest:Yeah.

01:21:52Guest:Like my friends say, I have a speaking capacity of like a first grader.

01:21:57Guest:I'm like, I've had a conversation with some sassy first graders.

01:22:00Guest:So yeah.

01:22:01Guest:Okay.

01:22:01Guest:I'll take it.

01:22:02Guest:So what makes you decide to come back?

01:22:05Guest:it was time like something yeah something just said get up and go right and there was no reason for it i was doing well right uh but it was like you know what no get up and go kia and i'm glad i did because barely months after i returned my mom got sick of cancer and i took care of her and barely seven months later she died so i feel very blessed

01:22:31Guest:That I wrapped everything up and came back on time.

01:22:34Marc:You could be there for her?

01:22:35Guest:I could be there for her.

01:22:36Marc:Oh, that's sad.

01:22:37Guest:And then I moved on to TNA kind of right away.

01:22:40Guest:Which is?

01:22:41Guest:Total nonstop action wrestling impact.

01:22:45Marc:And that's a leak.

01:22:47Guest:that's a league yeah that's like the second biggest league in america okay right now next to wwe next to wwe okay you know and that opened a lot of that door opened and i went right on in and they started a really wonderful women's program there and just really elevated my profile in america

01:23:07Marc:But they changed you to Amazing.

01:23:09Marc:Awesome Kong?

01:23:10Marc:Awesome Kong.

01:23:11Guest:Yeah.

01:23:11Guest:You know, they wanted to own it.

01:23:13Marc:Right.

01:23:13Guest:Yeah.

01:23:13Marc:That's the only reason?

01:23:14Guest:That was the only reason.

01:23:15Marc:Amazing was fine, but they're like, fuck that.

01:23:18Guest:Don't you like awesome?

01:23:19Guest:You know, amazing's great, but you're awesome.

01:23:22Guest:While they're like doing the trademark in the background.

01:23:25Marc:So you don't own your name?

01:23:27Marc:No, I do not.

01:23:29Marc:And the reason for that is what?

01:23:31Marc:Like, why do they own the names?

01:23:33Guest:Because it's their company and they came up with it.

01:23:37Marc:So they can use it for video games and dolls or whatever the hell else.

01:23:40Guest:Yes, and they can control you.

01:23:42Guest:Right.

01:23:43Guest:And if you leave, oh, you leave with just... Yeah, with your old name.

01:23:47Guest:With your old name.

01:23:48Guest:With your original name.

01:23:48Guest:Yep, with your original name.

01:23:50Guest:Good luck with it.

01:23:52Marc:Yeah.

01:23:52Guest:Who knows ya?

01:23:53Marc:Nobody.

01:23:54Nobody.

01:23:55Guest:So they didn't have a big women's program?

01:23:57Guest:No, not at all.

01:23:59Guest:It wasn't until me and about six other girls they hired at the exact same time.

01:24:04Guest:They started this really big women's program and it gained traction.

01:24:08Guest:And like the women's program at that time was like the largest rated segments on the show.

01:24:14Marc:Oh, wow.

01:24:14Guest:And it just garnered a lot of respect from the fans and just got bigger and bigger and bigger.

01:24:18Marc:And by this time, you've got moves.

01:24:20Marc:You're a pro.

01:24:21Marc:You know how to do it.

01:24:22Marc:I know how to do it.

01:24:23Marc:And you learned all that in Japan, really.

01:24:24Guest:Learned it all in Japan.

01:24:26Marc:Did you have tricks that they didn't know?

01:24:28Guest:All the girls knew their stuff.

01:24:30Guest:Right.

01:24:30Guest:But then, you know, we all shared and traded secrets that we all picked up over the years.

01:24:35Guest:Oh, yeah?

01:24:35Guest:Yeah, because, you know, like I said, in Japan, you hit hard.

01:24:38Guest:You go.

01:24:39Guest:And I mean, you go.

01:24:40Guest:Yeah.

01:24:40Guest:So I came in and like, bam!

01:24:42Guest:Yeah.

01:24:42Guest:And the girls go...

01:24:43Guest:Hey, Kia, so, you know, we can lighten that up a bit and make it look just as powerful without the actual impact.

01:24:54Guest:I'm like, oh, so you don't want me to actually punch you in the face.

01:24:57Guest:Okay, I can do that.

01:24:58Marc:So in Japan, you actually punch people in the face?

01:25:01Guest:Well, you know...

01:25:02Guest:People got hurt more.

01:25:04Guest:It was a little bit more hard-hitting than it is in America.

01:25:07Guest:No, not a little.

01:25:08Guest:A lot more hard-hitting than it is in America.

01:25:10Marc:Still?

01:25:11Guest:Still.

01:25:12Marc:And how long do you stay over there at TNA?

01:25:16Guest:Two years the first time, a year the second time.

01:25:19Marc:Why do you move around so much?

01:25:21Marc:I was noticing that looking at your history.

01:25:23Marc:There's a lot of matches.

01:25:24Marc:There's a lot of moving around.

01:25:25Marc:So what happens?

01:25:26Marc:Oh, gosh.

01:25:29Guest:Don't ask me that.

01:25:32Guest:You don't have to answer anything.

01:25:35Guest:Well, in Japan, it was Japan.

01:25:38Guest:Made good money, but it's not America.

01:25:40Guest:Right.

01:25:41Guest:Come to America.

01:25:42Guest:It's TNA.

01:25:44Guest:Made okay money.

01:25:46Guest:Yeah.

01:25:47Guest:But it's not WWE.

01:25:48Marc:Right.

01:25:49Guest:So you're constantly looking to elevate yourself.

01:25:52Marc:To get into the big league.

01:25:54Guest:To get into to where wrestling is going to actually take care of you because, you know, you have a finite amount of years to do this.

01:26:01Marc:Right.

01:26:02Guest:And then once you're done, you want to have a nest egg so you can enjoy life.

01:26:07Marc:And you'd like to be able to walk.

01:26:09Guest:Yes.

01:26:10Yes.

01:26:11Marc:That too.

01:26:12Marc:Yeah, and you don't want to have all your organs fucked up and everything else.

01:26:16Guest:Yes, exactly.

01:26:17Marc:It seems like it's difficult to take care of yourself.

01:26:19Guest:Yes, it's very difficult.

01:26:21Marc:Because it's brutal.

01:26:22Guest:It's extremely brutal.

01:26:23Guest:The falls are extremely brutal.

01:26:25Marc:So the chase is really to get to the WWE somehow.

01:26:28Guest:Somehow.

01:26:29Marc:That's where the money is.

01:26:30Marc:And when you're doing something like TNA, is there a path?

01:26:35Marc:Because just as a comic, you know the big game is that you want to get on Letterman, you want to get a sitcom, or you're going to do your stand-up and you're going to keep writing and you're going to keep working, but you're waiting for a break.

01:26:48Marc:So how does that work once you're a pro wrestler and you've got some name recognition?

01:26:52Marc:What do you have to go through?

01:26:54Marc:After TNA, you went where?

01:26:57Guest:After TNA, I went straight to WWE.

01:26:59Guest:Oh, you did?

01:27:00Guest:Yeah, after a few months of my non-compete clause, then I went there.

01:27:04Marc:Oh, so it happened for you?

01:27:05Marc:Yes.

01:27:05Marc:You didn't have to go do weird, sad matches in the middle of nowhere?

01:27:09Guest:No, I had to do that, too.

01:27:11Marc:Yeah.

01:27:11Marc:You know, the non-compete clause is- Is that the independent circuit?

01:27:14Guest:Yes, the independent circuit.

01:27:15Guest:I had to do that because my non-compete clause says you just can't go from us to another big television show.

01:27:21Marc:So what is that independent circuit like?

01:27:24Marc:How do you find fights in that?

01:27:25Guest:Mostly they find you.

01:27:27Guest:Yeah.

01:27:28Guest:You know, if you have.

01:27:29Marc:They hear you're out.

01:27:30Guest:Yeah.

01:27:30Marc:And they're like, oh, good.

01:27:31Marc:There's another one that's really good.

01:27:33Guest:Exactly.

01:27:34Marc:And you didn't know what you were walking into.

01:27:36Marc:What is it?

01:27:37Guest:You never knew.

01:27:38Guest:I mean, somebody, like, one time somebody tried to make up the difference in hot dogs.

01:27:44Marc:And I was like, no.

01:27:46Marc:Oh, man.

01:27:47Marc:It's not going to travel well.

01:27:49Marc:But they always met basic requirements, like a safe ring, some sort of venue.

01:27:55Guest:Wish I would have requested that.

01:27:56Guest:No.

01:27:58Guest:Basic requirements was usually an air ticket and a hotel and transportation to and from the venue.

01:28:05Marc:So you didn't know what the venue was or whether the ring was anything or whether there was a ring?

01:28:10Guest:Whether there was a ring or usually there was a ring, but whether it was safe or not, I don't know.

01:28:15Guest:You know, it was just like take care of yourself.

01:28:18Guest:You know, sometimes the boards be warped and you have like a teepee in the middle of it.

01:28:23Marc:And crowds were hit or miss?

01:28:27Marc:Or usually they're good crowds?

01:28:28Guest:Usually if they brought someone like me in that had semi-name, they would draw pretty well.

01:28:35Guest:And it was funny because sometimes they would draw, these independent shows would draw better than when TNA would go out on the road.

01:28:42Guest:Really?

01:28:43Marc:Yeah.

01:28:44Guest:I was like, what's up with that?

01:28:45Marc:maybe ticket cost or maybe i think promotion and also i i bet you like there's a lot of wrestling fans that prefer independent probably like punk rock like yes fuck dna fuck wwe yeah independence where it's happening that's where yeah it's raw so you did that for a while and then you get your wwe break

01:29:05Guest:Yes.

01:29:07Guest:And I was in Boston at the time and I drive down there just thinking I was going to say, you know, hi, I'm Kia.

01:29:12Guest:Hello.

01:29:12Guest:And they hired me that day.

01:29:14Guest:And it was like a dream.

01:29:16Guest:It was just like floating on air.

01:29:18Marc:Yeah.

01:29:19Guest:I was just happy to just walk in the building and say, hey, yeah, I walked in the building over there.

01:29:23Marc:But they knew you.

01:29:24Guest:Yes.

01:29:25Marc:Yes.

01:29:25Marc:Like, you know, your reputation preceded you and your skill set preceded you.

01:29:29Marc:Yes.

01:29:29Marc:It wasn't like you were some greenhorn that just came in.

01:29:32Marc:They didn't know, who is this woman?

01:29:33Guest:No.

01:29:34Guest:They knew me from TNA and the independent circuit because girls, I had never sent anything to WWE because I was waiting on my non-compete clause.

01:29:43Guest:But girls from the independent circuit that I faced, when they would send stuff in, they would send their best stuff in.

01:29:49Guest:Right.

01:29:49Guest:And their best stuff in was with me.

01:29:52Right.

01:29:52Guest:So they did your work for you.

01:29:55Guest:Yes.

01:29:56Marc:Thank you, girls.

01:29:59Marc:So you get hired, and it's like, that's it.

01:30:02Marc:It's a dream come true.

01:30:03Marc:It's a dream come true.

01:30:05Marc:And you're going to fight under Amazing Kong?

01:30:07Guest:No, we came up with a different name.

01:30:09Marc:Oh, because TNA owned Amazing Kong.

01:30:11Guest:TNA owned Awesome Kong, so yeah.

01:30:13Guest:Oh, Awesome Kong.

01:30:14Guest:They were like, if you had a magic wand, what would you want to be?

01:30:18Guest:Yeah.

01:30:19Guest:And I was like, you're giving me the wand?

01:30:22Oh.

01:30:22Guest:um i came up with the name karma i came up with a bunch of different names karma's a good name thank you yes um but it can go either way it could go either way right definitely and i live my life through karma i certainly believe you get what you put out there yeah universe right

01:30:45Guest:And I it was like eight names.

01:30:48Guest:I submitted and some of them were ridiculous because I was like, it's wrestling.

01:30:52Guest:So they're going to want like a and I'm like their first BBW girl.

01:30:57Guest:So maybe I should pick a name that the initials are like BBW.

01:31:01Guest:How about Marcissa B. Wicked?

01:31:04Guest:Yes.

01:31:04Guest:Yes, Marcissa.

01:31:05Guest:Yes.

01:31:05Guest:This is genius.

01:31:07Guest:Oh, yes.

01:31:08Guest:Oh, whoa.

01:31:09Guest:And picked up like some ridiculous names.

01:31:11Marc:What is BBW?

01:31:12Guest:Like a big, beautiful woman.

01:31:13Guest:Okay.

01:31:14Guest:That's what that sounds like.

01:31:15Guest:BBW.

01:31:15Guest:I'm sorry.

01:31:15Marc:I'm an old white man.

01:31:17Guest:BBW.

01:31:17Guest:bbw big beautiful woman that's what that's the uh the abbreviation yeah if you're texting or you put yeah bbw beautiful woman got it and so i'm like their first big bbw dus so you know maybe they're gonna want me to be like ridiculous but no that's not what they want to like hey no

01:31:37Guest:What do you want?

01:31:38Guest:And I put karma.

01:31:41Guest:Karma was the last name.

01:31:42Guest:It was like a throw in.

01:31:43Guest:Yeah.

01:31:43Guest:It was like, oh, turning your list in like two minutes.

01:31:46Guest:Okay.

01:31:47Guest:Karma.

01:31:48Guest:Yeah.

01:31:48Guest:And I'm going to spell it with an H because, you know, they like to trademark shit.

01:31:51Guest:So here.

01:31:52Guest:Yeah.

01:31:53Guest:And then Vince picked karma.

01:31:55Marc:Wow.

01:31:56Marc:Yeah.

01:31:56Marc:So how long before you start fighting?

01:32:00Guest:About two months.

01:32:03Marc:Now, do you have to decide?

01:32:04Guest:Two, three months later.

01:32:05Marc:Who decides outfits and stuff?

01:32:06Guest:um they wanted me to debut very big and so you already had long hair right you said like i had braids like signature braids yes wild woman yes yeah and um so they wanted a new not a new look but kind of a you know kind of similar kind of recognizable but different and so they found a seamstress in new york and we made this

01:32:29Guest:kong i mean this karma suit yeah and or gear battle gear and um i debut and for about four weeks it's just this massive debut uh at first they did like vignettes of me like breaking barbie dolls and people got excited and they're like yes and then i debut and i'm like killing it and then the stick turned blue

01:32:58Guest:Oh, shit.

01:32:59Guest:Yeah.

01:33:00Guest:Really?

01:33:00Guest:Turn blue?

01:33:01Guest:Yeah.

01:33:02Guest:And I was like, what?

01:33:05Guest:Wait.

01:33:06Guest:Time out.

01:33:08Guest:What?

01:33:09Guest:And it was... Four weeks in?

01:33:11Guest:Four weeks in, man.

01:33:12Guest:And I was like, what?

01:33:14Guest:No.

01:33:15Guest:That's... No.

01:33:17Guest:Yeah.

01:33:17Guest:And I go to the doctor.

01:33:18Guest:She's like, congratulations.

01:33:20Guest:I'm like...

01:33:20Guest:For what?

01:33:22Guest:What?

01:33:23Guest:Oh, man, that's the one thing you don't want to go to Vince McMahon with.

01:33:28Guest:And I had to go and to Vince McMahon and say, hey, remember all that money you just put into me?

01:33:35Guest:That big thing you had?

01:33:37Guest:Can I take nine months off, man?

01:33:39Guest:I could have a baby.

01:33:42Marc:But you had to do that.

01:33:43Guest:I had to do that.

01:33:44Guest:And it's...

01:33:46Guest:They were very supportive.

01:33:49Guest:Some people, though, congratulated me and it was very obvious that they were like, congratulations.

01:33:57Guest:Great.

01:33:57Guest:Fucked up your career.

01:34:00Marc:But, you know, there was never a question as to whether you would have the baby or not.

01:34:05Guest:For me, no.

01:34:06Marc:Yeah.

01:34:06Guest:It was.

01:34:07Marc:Yeah.

01:34:08Marc:You have the baby.

01:34:08Guest:I'm having a baby.

01:34:09Guest:Yeah.

01:34:10Guest:Sorry.

01:34:11Guest:So.

01:34:11Marc:Were you with the man?

01:34:13Guest:Yes.

01:34:13Guest:Oh, good.

01:34:13Guest:You met him, Dan.

01:34:14Marc:Yeah.

01:34:14Marc:Good guy.

01:34:15Guest:Yeah.

01:34:16Marc:So.

01:34:16Marc:Okay.

01:34:16Marc:So.

01:34:17Marc:So right at that at four week mark.

01:34:19Marc:When do you take.

01:34:20Marc:Do they.

01:34:21Marc:Does it stop there?

01:34:22Guest:Yeah.

01:34:23Guest:Oh, that's it.

01:34:23Guest:Immediately.

01:34:24Guest:I do like.

01:34:24Marc:Because they don't want to put any more money in because in three months you're not going to be able to work.

01:34:27Guest:Right.

01:34:28Guest:We do a promo with me in the ring.

01:34:32Guest:First day I'm crying, and the next day I cut a promo saying, hey, I'm having a baby.

01:34:35Guest:I'll be back.

01:34:36Guest:Thank you.

01:34:37Guest:Yeah.

01:34:37Guest:What not.

01:34:40Guest:But it was...

01:34:44Guest:Not meant to be.

01:34:45Guest:Lost the baby.

01:34:46Guest:And that was emotionally really, oh, soul crushing.

01:34:53Guest:To this day, it's very, very hard.

01:34:55Guest:Like when we filmed episode two, I was very like, I don't know it.

01:34:59If I can be here right now, this is hard.

01:35:03Marc:Wait, what happened in episode two?

01:35:05Guest:Melrose with the ketchup.

01:35:06Marc:Oh.

01:35:07Guest:And I was like, I know nobody knows, but this is torture.

01:35:12Marc:Wow.

01:35:13Guest:But watching it at the premiere was funny as hell.

01:35:16Guest:Oh, gosh, I laughed so hard.

01:35:18Marc:Well, there's a lot of stuff in the show that I imagine...

01:35:21Marc:for me being the dick that i am on the show is a little different but you know some of the stuff that the women go through is like you know some real yeah you know i mean i'm there but like like i wasn't going to register a miscarriage in the same way right yeah so how long into it before when that happened

01:35:39Guest:about six months oh my god yeah late term had to deliver and everything it was very it had complications and you know hospitalized in and out for a couple of months blood transfusions it was just hard yeah so it took me a while to come back i came back that january at the royal rumble and that was the last time anyone saw me in wwe ever again on whose choice was that

01:36:04Guest:uh the companies yeah i just i think they felt i wasn't in the shape or emotional space i needed to be to be on the road and they were they were right they were yeah because you were just so broken up i was very broken up how long did that last uh three years oh boy

01:36:25Guest:to this day but three years of very just i'm in the house i'm shut off from the world don't talk to me it'll be okay someday but right now i just need to sit here so you didn't work at all i worked but it was very i was on autopilot right you know you gotta eat yeah but i was on autopilot i didn't socialize but i would go because you're just heartbroken

01:36:50Guest:Yeah.

01:36:50Guest:Just go do my thing and come back home.

01:36:52Guest:And that was it.

01:36:53Guest:Because thankfully with wrestling, you only have to do it like maybe five, six times a month to keep things afloat.

01:37:01Marc:What sort of gave way that enabled you to kind of start functioning again?

01:37:07Guest:I think once your body goes through changes, once the hormones and the postpartum calms down, and Dan and I were on a good foot, and we had moved, and so we're in this new space, and then oddly TNA came back into my life, gave me a call and said, hey, we want you to come back.

01:37:32Guest:and i can't i was like well okay i'm not doing anything i'm not really doing anything i will come back as long as it's fun and i'll stay as long as it's fun yeah and i did i stayed as long as it was fun and once it wasn't fun anymore you left i was gone how long was that for a year yeah almost exactly

01:37:49Marc:But it helped you get out of the funk.

01:37:51Guest:It did.

01:37:52Guest:Oh, that year was such a blast because I just didn't care one way or the other.

01:37:57Guest:It was like, you know, maybe this is my last year in wrestling.

01:38:00Guest:Have some fun.

01:38:02Marc:Right.

01:38:02Guest:And then deuces Kia.

01:38:04Marc:Yeah.

01:38:05Marc:And so you stayed a year and then it got not fun.

01:38:09Guest:It got very not fun.

01:38:11Marc:And then what happens?

01:38:12Yeah.

01:38:12Guest:uh i leave and two months later i get a call saying hey kia there's a script about glow and i think you should read for it who called you brian wittenstein he's now my rep he was a friend of mine in wrestling yeah and back in my first tna days and now he's a hollywood agent uh-huh

01:38:34Guest:and he gives me a call and he's like there's this part and it was for cherry actually yeah and and i didn't get cherry and i was like oh no he's like but wait wait wait there's more yeah there's this other part they liked your tape they want you know yeah that word bubbly came up again yeah um they want you to read for something else and i'm like

01:38:50Guest:Okay.

01:38:51Guest:And I was actually on my way to Japan at the time to do a show for Aja Kong, her 30th anniversary.

01:38:57Guest:And I'm in the airport and I'm cutting, reading the sides and everything.

01:39:02Guest:And we put it together and we send it in.

01:39:04Guest:And about a month later, they call and say, yeah, you got Tame.

01:39:07Guest:And I was like, yes.

01:39:09Marc:And the rest is history.

01:39:11Guest:And the rest is history.

01:39:13Marc:Well, you did a great job.

01:39:15Marc:Thank you.

01:39:16Marc:And I think that, like, you know, we had that one big scene together that you were nervous about where you come into the office.

01:39:21Guest:Oh, yeah, you remember that?

01:39:22Guest:Yeah, I do.

01:39:22Guest:So nervous.

01:39:23Marc:But you were so good.

01:39:24Guest:Oh, thank you, Mark.

01:39:25Marc:I was nervous, too.

01:39:26Marc:I was nervous the whole time, kind of.

01:39:27Marc:I didn't know, you know, like...

01:39:29Marc:I couldn't tell because you float like you, you watching you are Sam Sylvia.

01:39:35Marc:I became that guy pretty good.

01:39:37Marc:Yes.

01:39:38Marc:But you were great.

01:39:39Marc:I mean, everything you did was great.

01:39:40Marc:And I like even, you know, there's a scene there.

01:39:42Marc:There's a brief moment where, you know, when you take Betty's baby, that was just so beautiful.

01:39:47Marc:Right.

01:39:47Marc:It seems to me that whatever experience you had in performing really enabled you.

01:39:55Marc:You were comfortable in your body and you were expressive and your emotions were right there all the time.

01:40:02Marc:And you knew how to act.

01:40:04Marc:I don't know if you knew you did, but you definitely did.

01:40:06Guest:Well, thank you.

01:40:07Guest:I grew up in acting.

01:40:08Guest:I don't know if I... No.

01:40:09Guest:We didn't talk about that.

01:40:10Marc:No, we didn't.

01:40:11Guest:My mom was an actress.

01:40:12Guest:Oh, really?

01:40:13Guest:And then later transformed behind the camera.

01:40:17Guest:And, you know, that's why she was so... She knew what to do to get on with a fortune.

01:40:20Guest:She was an actress and dramatic.

01:40:21Guest:Oh, really?

01:40:22Guest:Yeah, she actually did a movie.

01:40:23Guest:She starred in a movie with Americana, a glow girl, called Provoked.

01:40:27Guest:Yeah.

01:40:27Guest:Yeah, so I grew up going to auditions.

01:40:29Guest:I never got a principal part, but I did some, back then we called it extra work.

01:40:33Guest:Today we call it background work.

01:40:35Guest:My brother got some principal stuff, but yeah, I grew up on sets and stuff.

01:40:40Guest:Oh, so you knew it.

01:40:40Guest:Took drama, and I was a drama nerd in school, was in plays and whatnot.

01:40:46Guest:Oh, so it was like, yeah.

01:40:46Guest:Entertainment's always been, and like Ruth, I thought wrestling would be my way into entertainment.

01:40:54Guest:It took 15 effing years.

01:40:57Guest:But now I'm finally a principal actor on the show.

01:41:00Marc:So in your mind, that was part of your original intention?

01:41:04Guest:Yeah.

01:41:04Guest:I mean, I loved wrestling.

01:41:06Guest:Right.

01:41:07Guest:You know, my mom always wanted to be like that star, but she put being a mom first into care of her kids.

01:41:14Guest:Right.

01:41:15Guest:And I thought, you know, yeah, if I can get...

01:41:19Guest:into wrestling i mean look at the rock you know because at the time he was doing uh right when i got into wrestling he was doing the mummy and he did the scorpion king so you knew that was a possibility i knew that was a possibility and and then stone coast of austin was on like the chuck norris whatever chuck norris was doing at the time yeah like yeah that guess something texas ranger yes yes and so i'm like that's a yeah

01:41:43Marc:And then you just got taken away by wrestling.

01:41:45Guest:I did.

01:41:45Guest:I got mad.

01:41:47Guest:It sucked.

01:41:48Guest:I mean, because it was just very comfortable.

01:41:50Guest:I knew how to do it in my sleep.

01:41:52Guest:Like I said, I was on autopilot during all my depression.

01:41:56Guest:So, I was like, well, yeah.

01:41:57Guest:I know how to fight and play fights.

01:41:59Guest:So, yeah.

01:42:00Marc:So, this was a big break.

01:42:02Marc:You know, you won.

01:42:04Marc:This was part of the goal.

01:42:06Marc:Yes.

01:42:07Marc:It wasn't like, you know, we took her away from wrestling.

01:42:09Guest:No.

01:42:10Yeah.

01:42:10Guest:No, it was not.

01:42:13Marc:It's sad your mom couldn't see it.

01:42:14Guest:It's very sad.

01:42:16Guest:But, you know, Liz and Carly were great.

01:42:18Guest:They put little nods to her in the show, like on my head shot and back with some things that she did.

01:42:25Marc:Oh, really?

01:42:26Guest:Yeah, and she...

01:42:28Guest:later became the contestant coordinator for family feud so they put in there that i was the audience coordinator for family feud oh that's sweet and so that was very sweet like like me and my sister were like gosh why is she here just just to see this yeah now what about your dad does he is he part of your the thing does he

01:42:46Guest:My father lives in Pennsylvania.

01:42:49Guest:Well, I have two fathers.

01:42:49Guest:I have my biological father and then my father who raised me, who's my papa.

01:42:53Guest:That's my daddy.

01:42:54Marc:The one who was married to your mom?

01:42:56Guest:Yeah.

01:42:56Guest:Tony Durant.

01:42:57Guest:That's my dad.

01:42:59Guest:I'm a daddy's girl.

01:43:00Guest:He moved to Pennsylvania after my mom passed with his new girlfriend.

01:43:06Guest:It was really weird because she looks like my mom in a very weird way.

01:43:09Guest:And it was like dressing her in my mom's clothes.

01:43:12Guest:I'm like, oh, daddy.

01:43:13Guest:Yeah.

01:43:13Guest:Oh, daddy.

01:43:15Guest:What are you doing?

01:43:16Guest:What are you doing?

01:43:18Guest:You poor.

01:43:19Guest:He loved her, though.

01:43:20Guest:He loved her.

01:43:21Guest:So we kind of got it.

01:43:22Guest:We were like, oh, that's my mama's stuff.

01:43:24Guest:Oh, wait.

01:43:24Guest:That's right.

01:43:25Guest:You're broken, dude.

01:43:27Guest:Go ahead.

01:43:28Guest:Go at it.

01:43:28Guest:Here's the jacket.

01:43:31Marc:Is he still around?

01:43:32Guest:Yes.

01:43:32Guest:My father is very, very.

01:43:34Guest:He checks in on me all the time.

01:43:35Marc:Is he excited about the show?

01:43:37Guest:Yeah.

01:43:37Guest:He called when I was on the way to the premiere, and he was like, I just saw you on TV.

01:43:43Guest:Oh, wow.

01:43:45Guest:I saw you on the... You was on the commercial.

01:43:47Guest:You did good.

01:43:48Guest:And I was just like, oh, papa.

01:43:50Marc:That's sweet.

01:43:51Marc:And what about the biological dad?

01:43:53Marc:Did you ever find that guy?

01:43:54Guest:Well, you know, I'm very...

01:43:59Guest:Yes, we know where he is.

01:44:01Guest:He knows where we are.

01:44:02Guest:And I'm very close.

01:44:03Guest:I was very close with my, you know, his mom and his dad and my grandparents.

01:44:09Guest:He was just not part really.

01:44:11Guest:But it didn't matter because I had me a dad.

01:44:13Guest:Sure, sure.

01:44:14Marc:So you know where he is.

01:44:15Guest:Yeah, I know where he is, you know.

01:44:16Marc:That's enough.

01:44:19Guest:That's enough.

01:44:20Marc:Well, look, I think I'm very excited for you, for the glow.

01:44:25Marc:And I hope we get another season because it was fun.

01:44:28Guest:It was so fun.

01:44:29Marc:And there's so much more to learn about so many of the characters.

01:44:32Guest:Yes.

01:44:32Marc:You included.

01:44:33Marc:Yeah.

01:44:33Marc:That's the most exciting thing about the possibility of another show.

01:44:36Marc:It's not really about the job as much as like, what happened?

01:44:39Guest:What happens?

01:44:40Guest:I'm in with the rest of the world of like, what happens?

01:44:42Marc:Yeah.

01:44:43Marc:What happens next?

01:44:43Marc:We don't know.

01:44:44Marc:We don't know.

01:44:44Marc:None of us know.

01:44:45Marc:None of us know.

01:44:46Marc:Well, I think we'll find out pretty soon.

01:44:47Marc:Yes.

01:44:48Marc:Well, I got a question then.

01:44:49Marc:Like, was there, like, when we were getting the scripts, was there, like, did you have any similar issues that your character had with Welfare Queen as you, Kia?

01:44:59Guest:Yeah.

01:45:00Guest:Being named Kong.

01:45:01Guest:It was like, okay, I'm Welfare Queen.

01:45:04Guest:And then Kong I had a problem with.

01:45:06Guest:And it's like, you know, what do you do with that?

01:45:08Guest:So, you know.

01:45:09Marc:So, you applied the same sort of reasoning.

01:45:10Guest:Oh, I applied the same sort of, you know, reasoning.

01:45:13Guest:And I'm going to own it.

01:45:15Guest:And that's what Tamay does.

01:45:16Guest:She's like, yeah, I'm going to.

01:45:17Guest:Y'all didn't get away as my people.

01:45:20Marc:It was great.

01:45:21Marc:It really plays.

01:45:23Marc:You know, the weird thing is, is that so much of it doesn't seem that dated.

01:45:27Guest:Right.

01:45:28Marc:That the issues still persist.

01:45:30Guest:Right.

01:45:31Marc:Right?

01:45:32Guest:Like, seriously, when you think about it now.

01:45:34Marc:Even more now, yeah.

01:45:35Marc:Yeah.

01:45:35Guest:Yeah, we still got Russia themes playing to this day.

01:45:38Marc:Terrorist themes.

01:45:38Guest:Yes.

01:45:39Marc:You know, class themes, race themes.

01:45:41Guest:Man.

01:45:42Marc:Yeah, it's really, because I know that when we were shooting it, you know, we were there the night of the election.

01:45:47Marc:It was like devastating.

01:45:49Guest:Yes.

01:45:49Marc:That set was just devastating.

01:45:51Marc:Yes.

01:45:51Marc:And so much of it was written with this sort of swagger and confidence of heading into the first female president.

01:45:58Marc:And then now that that did not happen.

01:46:00Marc:And, you know, the opposite really happened of everything we had gotten comfortable with.

01:46:06Marc:I, you know, sadly think that the show means more.

01:46:09Marc:Yes.

01:46:10Marc:You know, do you feel that?

01:46:11Marc:Oh, I feel that, definitely.

01:46:12Marc:It's wild.

01:46:13Marc:Sad but wild.

01:46:14Marc:Sad but wild.

01:46:15Guest:Good.

01:46:15Guest:Sad and good.

01:46:16Guest:Yes.

01:46:17Marc:Something to cling to.

01:46:19Marc:Well, good.

01:46:20Marc:Well, I hope to see you in a couple months.

01:46:22Guest:Yes.

01:46:23Guest:Me too, Mark.

01:46:24Marc:Thanks, Kia.

01:46:25Guest:Thank you.

01:46:27Marc:See that?

01:46:31Marc:See that?

01:46:33Marc:You never know how you're going to arrive where you want to be, if you're lucky.

01:46:38Marc:So again, have a safe fourth.

01:46:42Marc:Do I need to play guitar?

01:46:45Marc:I'll do it next week.

01:46:47Marc:All right, be careful, will you?

01:46:48Marc:Boomer lives!

01:46:49Marc:Boomer lives!

01:46:55you