Episode 822 - Sofia Coppola
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck, buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuck sticks?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:My name is Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF, my podcast.
Marc:Nice to have you.
Marc:Today on the show, I will be talking to Sofia Coppola, which is very exciting because I enjoyed her new movie, The Beguiled, very much.
Marc:And I've liked almost all of her movies.
Marc:Why not just say all of them?
Marc:Why not be diplomatic, Mark?
Marc:Well, to be honest, I haven't seen one of them.
Marc:All right.
Marc:But I've seen the other ones that I saw.
Marc:I like there's no reason to assume that I wouldn't like the other one.
Marc:But this one was pretty beautiful and pretty challenging in a good way.
Marc:And and in kind of amazing because it forced me to go watch the original, which I believe I'd seen at some point in my life.
Marc:It would be hard to imagine forgetting that film.
Marc:But I think maybe it was one of those films that I never saw in its entirety, but only saw parts of.
Marc:The original Beguiled, I believe, was shot by, was it Don Siegel in the early 70s?
Marc:Same guy did Dirty Harry with Clint Eastwood.
Marc:Anyways, I'll look it up and talk to you about it in a minute and about other things.
Marc:But I did want to share this email right out of the gate.
Marc:It just says in the subject line, just want to say thanks.
Marc:Mark, after years of your promos, I've recently, finally subscribed to Stitcher Premium to get access to your back catalog.
Marc:Why did I wait?
Marc:I've forgotten how good some of these are.
Marc:The hour with Patrice O'Neill is life-changing.
Marc:The perspective I have now on episodes with folks like Jimmy Fallon or Bryan Cranston makes them all the more fascinating.
Marc:You've been a big part of my life now for almost a decade.
Marc:Listening to these backups is like looking at an old photo album.
Marc:Hearing the whole intro, hearing you speak of Boomer in the present tense, hearing you rant about various romantic interests you had at that moment.
Marc:It's all great.
Marc:Feel free to use this as a testimonial in any advertising you wish.
Marc:I'd be flattered.
Marc:And thanks again for the laughs, the tears, and the twice-weekly dose of sanity.
Marc:Love you, brother.
Marc:Dan.
Marc:Well, Dan, it just so happens that that fits right into me telling people yesterday we posted an episode of the new podcast miniseries Classic Showbiz with Cliff Nesterov.
Marc:Go check it out.
Marc:And if you want to hear more, more of those or any of the stuff I just talked about, you can get it on Howl or the new Stitcher Premium service.
Marc:That's the whole damn shebang.
Marc:The whole WTF catalog.
Marc:All there.
Marc:But the Classic Showbiz stuff is great.
Marc:pow look out i just shit my pants just coffee.coop that's a classic style ad from the old days of wtf i'm actually not even drinking just coffee i'm drinking some chicory coffee out of a mug that is the type that they have in diners some people use them for promotional mugs but they're very specific type of mug none of this matters
Marc:None of it matters.
Marc:I got a mug from Stephen Colbert.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:The swag in the dressing room at the Colbert show is a bit beyond.
Marc:Just, you walk in, it's like there might as well be a fucking Christmas tree in there.
Marc:kinds of shit there was cheese that you could eat right there nice sort of artisanal cheese with a baguette and crackers there was products from lush that healthy manufacturer of giant balls that you drop in the tub and bubble there was all kinds of there was some there was some socks there was the the mug there was a t-shirt there was like a bunch of different cakes and cookies and shit
Marc:Man, by the time I got done with Colbert, I was in a sugar coma.
Marc:So...
Marc:That being said, that I was there, it was interesting.
Marc:I did the Today Show, which I've done before with Al Roker, my old co-most guest appearances on Conan guy.
Marc:We were the go-tos back in the day, me and Roker.
Marc:They had a guest fallout when they were in New York.
Marc:They'd give us a call.
Marc:What do you got, Maren?
Marc:Got anything, got any half-done jokes that could find themselves as you chat to Conan?
Marc:I do.
Marc:Bring me in.
Marc:But the Today Show was fun.
Marc:I did that with Allison and Betty Gilpin.
Marc:And then I did a bunch of Sirius shows over on Sirius.
Marc:I did Bill Carter's show.
Marc:I did Jimmy Norton's show.
Marc:I did the Entertainment Weekly show.
Marc:I did a little thing for their new Beatles channel.
Marc:And then I had lunch at Alex Guarnicelli's restaurant.
Marc:Butter.
Marc:Guys, I'm just free plug day.
Marc:I'm just trying to walk you through my day in New York.
Marc:It was just nearby and fuck, it was good.
Marc:She wasn't there though.
Marc:I texted her.
Marc:She was, you know, at a benefit of some kind.
Marc:I love her.
Marc:I love her cooking.
Marc:That's all I'm going to say on that.
Marc:But then the exciting thing though was I'd never done the Colbert show since he's been there.
Marc:I've never done any of his shows.
Marc:I'd been on Letterman a few times, but I'd never done Steven's show.
Marc:And I've never really interviewed Steven on this show.
Marc:But I was excited to do his show because, you know, he's getting the hang of it.
Marc:And he's a very talented guy.
Marc:And he's a very sweet man, Mr. Colbert.
Marc:And I've always felt that from way back in the day.
Marc:We knew each other a bit way back in the day.
Marc:And I talked about it on my appearance on the Colbert show.
Marc:Well, he brought it up.
Marc:But we used to work next door to each other in an office back in 93, 94.
Marc:He was in exit 57.
Marc:I was hosting short attention span theater.
Marc:And he was always a very grounded, kind of almost clean cut fella.
Marc:But the thing that was exciting about going back to the Ed Sullivan Theater for the late show with Stephen Colbert is that, as I said, I'd been there before.
Marc:Letterman, obviously, was a big part of my life.
Marc:And I love David Letterman.
Marc:I always was more than honored to do the David Letterman show.
Marc:But this was going to that theater and doing a show that is hosted by a contemporary of mine, someone around my age, someone who came up with me at the same time.
Marc:We're not together, but we were chipping away at show business at the same time.
Marc:He arguably was a lot more present and you knew him a lot better than me.
Marc:But it was just...
Marc:Kind of fascinating that we're a couple of middle-aged guys who started out in roughly the same hallway, in a way, in television.
Marc:I believe we started out next to each other, you know, with almost practically adjoining offices.
Marc:So I was sort of happy and proud of him and excited to be there because we're contemporaries and he's driving the big ship.
Marc:He's driving the big theater.
Marc:He's driving the Ed Sullivan Theater.
Marc:And that's a heavy legacy, man.
Marc:And Stephen was great.
Marc:It was great to see him.
Marc:And I think we worked well together.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:You know, I've had an opportunity to build relationships with, you know, with Conan, a bit with Letterman.
Marc:And this is the first time I've done his talk show.
Marc:And it is a very specific thing to do a talk show segment, a panel segment.
Marc:And I think we did good.
Marc:I think we both had a good time and I think it went well.
Marc:Feeling each other out.
Marc:on the stage at the Ed Sullivan Theater.
Marc:So if you didn't see that, you can go watch that now.
Marc:I was there to promote GLOW.
Marc:It's exciting.
Marc:I hope it gets out.
Marc:We're constantly on end of the world watch, so I'm checking my phone.
Marc:I'd like it if the world didn't end before GLOW premieres.
Marc:Is that selfish?
Marc:Is that self-centered?
Marc:I'd like the missiles to not fly at all, but hopefully until after Friday.
Marc:Give people a week to watch GLOW.
Marc:Could you do that, Mr. President?
Marc:So, Sofia Coppola is here and The Beguiled Man.
Marc:I actually, her new film, I watched twice.
Marc:And I watched it twice in a theater, actually.
Marc:So, I saw it the way you're supposed to see it.
Marc:I watched it, I went to a screener and watched it.
Marc:And then I went to a little premiere thing that Sofia spoke at Quentin Tarantino's theater, the new Beverly.
Marc:And they ran it back to back with the original Beguiled.
Marc:Now, the original, like it was interesting for me to watch the original because I watched Sophia's first and then I watched the original before I talked to her.
Marc:And the original is a menacing, macabre, southern gothic.
Marc:I would almost call it a horror story.
Marc:And the new one, it's different.
Marc:It is the same story, but it's approached very differently.
Marc:There are elements.
Marc:She went back and found the book.
Marc:I talked to her about that.
Marc:But as far as what she drew from the original movie, which is a Don Siegel film, Clint Eastwood's in it.
Marc:Geraldine Page is in it.
Marc:And it's really against character for old Clint.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Maybe this is either just before or just after Dirty Harry.
Marc:Maybe it was shooting almost simultaneously, it seemed.
Marc:But it was before Clint had a certain angle.
Marc:And right at the beginning,
Marc:of the Beguiled in the Queen Eastwood version, the Don Siegel version, you know he's just a shitty man.
Marc:Just like... And it just gets weirder and weirder with all the effects...
Marc:and psycho weirdness from the 70s cinema.
Marc:Everything is just loaded, and it's in the South.
Marc:The story's about a Union soldier who is injured and stumbles upon a little girl picking mushrooms and is taken in at this small girl's school.
Marc:Most of the girls are gone, but there's a few there.
Marc:And right from the get-go in the seagull version, it's menacing from all levels, and all the characters are a bit fucked up.
Marc:But in Sophia's, there's a beautiful kind of poetic feel to it.
Marc:There's a lyrical vibe to it.
Marc:The camera work is all handled beautifully.
Marc:It was shot in New Orleans, and Colin Farrell plays the Union soldier.
Marc:But you don't know what to do with him from the beginning.
Marc:Obviously, the situation is loaded when a soldier is taken in by a girls' school with women from all ages present.
Marc:And you don't know what's going to happen or how it's going to go.
Marc:But if you've seen the original, you've got somewhat of an idea.
Marc:But I wouldn't judge, you know, don't go into the new one thinking that you know what's going to happen.
Marc:Because the way that Sophia worked with this script and worked with this story was...
Marc:Not until way into it do you really judge this dude.
Marc:And it's kind of fascinating because how you judge him as a man or a woman is on you.
Marc:And how you judge what happens is on you and it will tell you interesting things about yourself.
Marc:As I told her, I thought about the movie for weeks in terms of that male character.
Marc:So I dug it a lot.
Marc:I really did.
Marc:And I like all her movies.
Marc:I actually, you know, they screened at the new Beverly.
Marc:She, she announced the film.
Marc:She brought the, they, you know, Quentin talked her into screening some 1998 short film she did.
Marc:And God, how old was she in 1998?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Let's do some math.
Marc:Born in 71, 81, 91.
Marc:So she was like 27, 26, 27.
Marc:But it was her first film.
Marc:It was a short film.
Marc:And that was pretty cute, pretty good.
Marc:And a little dark.
Marc:He saw the themes already.
Marc:Virgin Suicides, great movie.
Marc:Lost in Translation.
Marc:Loved that movie.
Marc:How could you not love that movie?
Marc:Marie Antoinette also liked it.
Marc:Somewhere, I also liked with the Stephen Dorff fella.
Marc:I didn't see The Bling Ring.
Marc:Did not see it.
Marc:But I've always respected her.
Marc:She's got a unique vision and she's committed to it.
Marc:And she's got a great eye and a great sense of story.
Marc:And she picks great actors.
Marc:And I think she's a wonderful director.
Marc:And I was thrilled to talk to her.
Marc:It's hot in here, man.
Marc:I'm starting to sweat.
Marc:So The Beguiled opens in theaters tomorrow, Friday, June 23rd.
Marc:And now this is me and Sofia Coppola talking here in the garage.
Guest:Can you hear me okay?
Marc:I can hear you.
Marc:I didn't know if I would be able to hear you, but I can.
Guest:I'll try to not mumble.
Guest:Project?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Are you a mumbler?
Guest:I am.
Marc:Really?
Marc:I texted your cousin's been in here, Jason.
Guest:Jason?
Marc:Oh.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He's doing his show today with Phoenix is visiting him.
Guest:My husband's been there going to do Jason's show today.
Marc:Oh, so you came with the whole family to L.A.?
Marc:Just him.
Guest:He's on tour, and they did the music for my movie.
Marc:They did?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, so they could... They did the score, but it's different than their... No, it's definitely different.
Marc:Like, I watched a movie.
Marc:I watched your movie.
Marc:I guess we can talk about the movie right out of the gate.
Marc:You're used to that now.
Marc:You've been doing the junket thing, huh?
Marc:Sitting in a room, doing six-minute interviews with 25 people.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, I'm a little, I've been talking about myself way too much.
Marc:Really?
Marc:You don't like it?
Marc:Who was doing the junket with you?
Marc:Who was sitting there with you?
Guest:Kirsten and Al have been doing it with me, Kirsten and Al Fanning, so that's fun, but mostly it's on my own.
Marc:And you just, I just did one for the show I'm in, and it's like, it's tedious because you can't, at some point your brain wants to lock into something you can say to everybody, but then you know if you just say the same thing to everybody, it's going to be the same article, but then on a deeper level you know who's going to read all the articles.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, that's true.
Guest:I just try to do autopilot.
Marc:You do?
Guest:But then I just get bored with hearing myself say the same thing.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But so you've been in LA.
Guest:But I won't be an autopilot this morning.
Marc:I won't tolerate it.
Guest:I know you won't.
Marc:It won't happen.
Marc:When was the last time, well, we can talk about life before.
Marc:So you lived here at one point, no?
Marc:In LA or never?
Guest:in the 90s i went to cal arts i can't i grew up in northern california and then i moved to la northern california yeah i grew up in napa valley with the with the whole clan up there in the big house with my parents and my brother yeah and and our winery yeah yeah with chickens and right so you grew up in a farm almost yeah and and uh but it's out in napa valley and yeah rutherford california and uh they're still up there
Guest:Yeah, my parents lived there.
Marc:The same house?
Guest:Yeah, the same house I grew up in at their winery.
Guest:That's nice, right?
Guest:Yeah, it's really nice to be able to go up there, and I see friends that I went to first grade with.
Marc:They're still there?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Everyone's still around?
Guest:Yeah, a lot of them are.
Marc:So you had kind of a relatively normal life growing up in terms of at least being in the same place.
Guest:Yeah, people are always surprised that I grew up near chickens and a country girl.
Marc:What other animals are on the farm?
Guest:There's a cow, but he's more of a pet cow.
Marc:Do you eat the eggs from the chickens?
Guest:Yes, we do.
Marc:And so you have a lot of chickens and then part of your life at some point was going out and getting the eggs.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You did it?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, not regularly, but yes.
Guest:Once or twice.
Guest:Sounds like Marie Antoinette now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, but no, I grew up in the country, but we traveled a lot when my dad would go on location for films.
Guest:We always went with them.
Marc:You went with them?
Marc:Like, what was the earliest memory do you have of going on location?
Guest:I lived in the Philippines during Apocalypse Now when I was four and five.
Guest:So that was... He dragged you all there.
Guest:Yeah, I thought it was fun.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:We were like in helicopters in the jungle.
Guest:I probably had the best time of the whole group because they had a lot of stress with that.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I saw the documentary.
Marc:It did not look like a good time for your folks.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:So that was after The Godfather anyways.
Marc:But you'd always go wherever he was working if you were...
Guest:Yeah, he always took us with him.
Guest:So I would go to, yeah, I lived in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Guest:I would go to the local schools wherever we went.
Marc:What was in Tulsa?
Marc:What shot there?
Guest:Rumblefish and the Outsiders.
Marc:That was shot in Oklahoma?
Guest:Yeah, Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Marc:I used to, I loved that movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Rumblefish.
Guest:I love Rumblefish.
Guest:It's one of my favorites.
Marc:Mine too.
Marc:It's a weird thing.
Marc:There was a period there where I was seeing it like once a year.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah, I had to.
Marc:It was just like something I needed to do.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:Yeah, that was always my favorite of my dad's movies growing up.
Guest:And then I started to appreciate it.
Marc:The other ones?
Marc:Why do you think that one was?
Marc:Just because it was so like the colors and it was a little more.
Guest:I think it was made for kids.
Guest:It was an art movie for teenagers, which I think is so cool.
Guest:There aren't that many of them.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:Certainly not them.
Marc:I guess there aren't really any in general.
Guest:Yeah, it always bugged me growing up that the movies made for teenagers always didn't look that high quality.
Marc:Right, they were just dumb comedies, but some of those had a big impact on us.
Guest:I love John Hughes movies.
Marc:Right, that's what I was thinking of, exactly.
Marc:But there were movies like, I guess, Baz Luhrmann, when he did Romeo and Juliet, that was some sort of weird attempt at elevating the form for the youth.
Guest:Yeah, that's true.
Guest:I always appreciate when people do that, because a lot of times I thought, why do they have to have bad cinematography and bad lighting?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, yeah, that was kind of a spectacle.
Marc:What was the other one he did?
Marc:I can't remember.
Marc:But like Marie Antoinette sort of was trying to do a little of that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:To connect with younger people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know what my thinking was.
Guest:Yes, it was.
Guest:It was definitely in a teenage girl feeling because she was a teenage girl.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I liked it.
Marc:That was that must have been a fun movie to do.
Guest:It was really fun.
Guest:I couldn't believe that they opened up the Chateau Versailles for us.
Guest:How'd you get that done?
Guest:I imagine people have tried over the years.
Guest:Yeah, I couldn't believe it.
Guest:We met them and they were very open to it.
Guest:And I guess they liked Lost in Translation.
Guest:And they said they would let us film there.
Guest:And then we pulled up all our trucks in front of the castle.
Guest:I couldn't believe it the first day we were shooting there.
Guest:Right in the front.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I remember we were shooting in the Hall of Mirrors and all of our equipment was in the room next to it.
Guest:It was like Marie Antoinette's real bedroom was where all our equipment cases were.
Guest:It was so surreal.
Guest:Jason, who played King Louie, we did a Cribs episode.
Guest:We shot him giving a tour of Versailles.
Guest:It was really exciting that it felt like they let the kids in to make a movie.
Marc:Did you use that as promo?
Marc:I don't remember seeing the Cribs episode.
Guest:I don't know where it is.
Guest:I have to find it.
Guest:I think we put it out there somewhere.
Marc:Yeah, that's kind of funny.
Marc:You live in Paris now?
Guest:I live more in New York, but I stayed in Paris after Marie Antoinette, and then after a couple years, came back to New York.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How's New York doing?
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:I live in the West Village.
Marc:That's nice, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But you spent a lot of time in San Francisco?
Marc:Because I was there for a couple years.
Marc:Your dad's office is in San Francisco, right?
Guest:Yeah, in North Beach.
Guest:I never really lived in San Francisco.
Guest:I mean, as a little kid, but then we moved up to Napa when I was...
Marc:But was that your city for a while?
Guest:That's where I'd go see bands.
Guest:I mean, luckily, we could go see bands in San Francisco.
Marc:And were you part of the scene there at all, or you just go see bands?
Guest:No, I was living up in Napa, but I would just go in and see bands.
Guest:I never lived there as an adult.
Marc:No?
Marc:It's a good city, though, right?
Marc:It's kind of weird.
Marc:I never understand what's going on there.
Marc:I lived there for a couple years, and like most cities, you can sort of get a handle on at least the economic dynamics or just what the tone of the city is.
Marc:But there, I'm like, what is going on here?
Guest:Yeah, I never figured it out either.
Marc:Doesn't your brain try to do that, though, a little bit?
Guest:Yeah, it is always kind of a mystery, that place.
Guest:My brother lives there now, but there is such a mix of...
Marc:Yeah, you just don't like, before the tech thing, I was like, where's the money coming from?
Marc:What's the history of this place?
Marc:And I guess it's available information, but there was always such a profound freak element, you know, in a proud way that there was this kind of like something untethered about it.
Marc:You'd walk around certain parts of San Francisco and you're like, what the
Marc:fuck is going on yeah yeah and then there's the old guard society right thing from another era that's still hanging on and what but what who were they though like like are they cowboys were they gold prospectors i mean it's always been sort of a a kind of a a magnet for all types of american weirdness outsiders yeah yeah but like i don't know like i still don't know because i'm like
Marc:Not as compulsive as I should be in learning things.
Marc:Like, what settled that city?
Marc:And I know it must be the boats.
Marc:Must be things coming in.
Marc:Yeah, the trade.
Marc:Must be the port.
Marc:Yeah, the trade.
Marc:I like that we're speculating over known things.
Marc:I know.
Marc:One of my favorite things to do.
Yeah.
Guest:But then I like that my dad in the 70s said, I'm going to leave Hollywood and went up there and then George Lucas and then it became kind of a hippie film.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:What was that, like in the early 70s?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:So how is your dad?
Guest:He's good.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Is it all about the wine now pretty much?
Guest:Yeah, but he just wrote a book about electronic cinema and his ideas of film, so he's still interested in that, but he's making wine into it.
Marc:And how long was it before, I know that you didn't set out initially to be a director, you kind of did other stuff.
Marc:Was that kind of a part of a resistance to the family business, or did you just want to do your own thing?
Marc:I mean, how long did it take for you to come around to be like, no, I'm going to direct?
Guest:No, I didn't.
Guest:It seemed so obvious, but at the time, I was like, I have no idea what I'm going to do.
Guest:I went to CalArts, and I wanted to be an artist.
Guest:I wanted to be a painter.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Did you paint?
Guest:Yeah, but very badly.
Guest:Yeah, and then I went to Art Center.
Guest:I moved to Art Center.
Marc:Where's Art Center?
Guest:In Pasadena.
Marc:Right here?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's a pretty famous place.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then my painting teacher told me I wasn't a painter.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And I was really upset, but I'm glad that they did.
Guest:And I met Paul Jasmine, the photography teacher there, and got into photography.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Did you get into the history of photography and everything, or just shooting?
Guest:Just shooting, and again, in the history, but more contemporary, and I collect photographs.
Guest:You do?
Guest:Yeah, so I love photography, and that's how I got into film through photography.
Marc:Yeah, you can definitely see that in your films.
Marc:Who were some of the photographers that inspired you?
Guest:I love Eggleston, and Lee Freelander, and Helmut Newton, and...
Marc:Did you go far back?
Marc:Did you ever look at that Ajay stuff?
Guest:No, I was always more interested in more contemporary or 40s on.
Guest:But I wasn't consciously deciding not to go into the film business.
Guest:Maybe I was rebelling.
Guest:Yeah, a little.
Marc:You would have had to lose your last name to completely rebel.
Guest:Yeah, it's true.
Guest:My 10-year-old daughter is really into gymnastics.
Guest:She said, I'm going to be the first athlete in our family.
Guest:They're all artists.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:That's how she's going to fight.
Marc:Look, that's better than drinking and being.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:We'll see.
Marc:If she's going to, like, fuck you, I'm going to do gymnastics, you're doing good as a parent.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:I hope we can keep it up.
Marc:Did you ever do, like, a show of your photographs and stuff?
Marc:Were you, like, really pursuing it?
Guest:No, I worked for, like, magazines.
Guest:I did a group show in Tokyo with some other people, but I was doing more kind of portraits and fashion.
Guest:Never, like, an art photographer, but I don't know how I ended up.
Guest:I was in my 20s just trying to figure it out and doing different things.
Guest:But I was always kind of frustrated that I had a lot of interest, but I wasn't an expert at any.
Guest:And then I made a short film.
Guest:I had a little clothing company doing T-shirts.
Guest:And I was interested in different things and trying to figure out.
Guest:I didn't want to wake up one day and say, oh, I wish I had done something.
Guest:So I tried to try a lot of things.
Marc:You did some T-shirts?
Marc:How's that line doing?
Marc:Is it still around?
Marc:Oh, it's gone.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:It was an early 90s moment.
Marc:Did it pick up any traction?
No.
Guest:um it did well in japan and oh really we left it there's yeah i was like california t-shirts but um no we had like a little fashion line but i tried different things and then i made a short film and um and i thought oh here's something that incorporates all the things i'm i'm into in music and photography and
Marc:And you had to realize that on your own.
Marc:You couldn't look at it.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:And it seems so obvious, but it never occurred to me.
Guest:I never thought I would be a director.
Marc:But it's kind of nice that it would have been expected that you would have appreciated all that before because you grew up in it and you were living it.
Marc:But then not until you made your own thing.
Marc:You're like, oh, you put music and there's acting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was surprised at how I knew how to do it because I didn't go to film school.
Guest:But, of course, I spent my whole life on my dad's sets and he was always talking about it.
Guest:And we were, you know, with all these great people that he worked with.
Guest:Was he constantly talking about it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And about writing, too.
Guest:I mean, as a little kid, he'd be talking about three-act structure.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:You know, so I was learning all this all the time.
Marc:It was all absorbing.
Marc:And I guess if you're on set wandering around the Philippines watching him direct that movie, you're like,
Marc:Well, maybe I don't have to go that far.
Marc:Maybe keep it a little tighter.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:I got my, my 10,000 hours.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Didn't you do it right?
Marc:Just by absorbing it as a child.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's hilarious.
Marc:Didn't you, did you do like, did you do television?
Marc:You didn't do much television.
Guest:no no i never have never at all oh no i did do it in the 90s i had it um my friends and i did four episodes of a magazine show called high octane where we drove around in muscle cars and interviewed different people did it did it stick no we just did four of them and then for who um strangely comedy central but it wasn't really a comedy show it was a magazine right but um i think it was so you're driving around in big cars talking to celebrities
Guest:Yeah, talking about different artists and people that are interested in us.
Marc:Who worked with you on that?
Guest:I just did it with some of my friends.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I forgot about that.
Guest:It was long ago.
Guest:But I guess the way I really got into film was I read this book, The Virgin Suicides by Jeff Eugenides.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I heard they were going to make a film of it.
Guest:And I felt really protective of, I hope they don't mess it up when you have a book that you love.
Guest:And so I started trying to figure out how I would write a script to it.
Guest:And I didn't have the rights to it.
Guest:Someone else did.
Guest:But I wrote the script as an experiment.
Guest:And then I felt so attached to it that I found the producers and I asked them to read my script.
Guest:And somehow they let me direct the film.
Marc:And they let you direct it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they used your script?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, they read my script.
Marc:It's an intense movie.
Marc:What was it that compelled you, really?
Marc:Just the story or just because it's dark but has other elements?
Guest:I love the book.
Guest:I love the way it was written and the mystery between the boys trying to understand girls and just that age and kind of the melancholy of being that age.
Guest:I just feel like he really captured the feeling of that.
Marc:In a very extreme situation.
Guest:Yeah, but there's something romantic about it.
Guest:I think when you're that age, especially the idea of love and death, it's all kind of heightened.
Marc:Right, but you don't actually follow through with it generally.
Marc:No.
Marc:That's the difference.
Marc:You take it to a limit.
Guest:Yeah, you can kind of exercise all that in a story and not have to do anything that drastic.
Marc:Well, I think those dynamics are like those kind of happen through all the movies, right?
Marc:Really that you've done that the weird trying to understand men and women, right?
Guest:Yeah, I think there's always a mystery in that or something interesting.
Marc:Like we can talk about Lost in Translation because that does it too.
Marc:I mean, outside of being about, you know, men and women to a degree, they're also kind of meditations on celebrity in a way, right?
Right.
Guest:Yeah, I'm always drawn to some element of that.
Guest:Probably just growing up around having a famous father and people reacted or something.
Guest:I don't know why, but there's something.
Guest:I mean, so in our culture.
Marc:Yeah, it is.
Marc:But like your sensitivity to it's going to be different.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because you like it was just I imagine that dinners at your house in Napa on some nights you were like, you know, what the fuck is happening?
Marc:Who are all these?
Marc:These people are like really famous and geniuses.
Guest:I don't know if I, I think I just.
Marc:You didn't register it?
Marc:They were just people?
Guest:They were just like the people that my dad worked with.
Guest:But I mean, in retrospect, don't you think back and go like, holy shit.
Guest:Yeah, there's some funny stories, yeah.
Guest:Like what?
Guest:Oh, I don't know the people that came through their house.
Guest:There were definitely a lot of characters.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I know we were talking about Richard Gere the other day and I remember being, you know, like 10 and he was like skinny dipping in our pool or, you know.
Marc:It's appropriate.
Marc:He did a lot of work at the house, like he would have readings and stuff there or what?
Marc:Or just...
Guest:Yeah, the actors would do readings.
Guest:He would always make dinner for lots of people.
Marc:He likes to cook, huh?
Guest:Yeah, he can just throw together a big dinner for all these people, no problem, which is a mystery to me.
Marc:It seems very important to him.
Guest:Yeah, it's the Italian family thing and making people feel... Did you get any of that?
Guest:I have the same, you know, wanting to, you know, on set to make everyone feel like family and comfortable, but I can't make dinner at the last minute for 20 people.
Marc:Where you can't just whip up a pot of pasta and sauce?
Guest:No, I wish.
Guest:I feel... It's too much pressure being Italian and not being able to do that well, so...
Guest:I asked him, how do you do that?
Guest:And he's like, you just feel it.
Guest:And I was like, I don't feel it.
Guest:Tell me exactly how you do it.
Guest:You just feel it.
Marc:Yeah, I guess.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I think that's nice.
Marc:I think it's a nice thing to be able to entertain a bunch of people spontaneously and having that be a lovely thing.
Guest:Yes, and not a stressful disaster.
Marc:Yeah, like, oh my God, they're coming.
Marc:Do we have everything?
Marc:Right, yeah.
Marc:It's a nice environment to grow up in.
Marc:So what I did, which was surprising to me, because I went and saw You're Beguiled, and then I felt compelled to watch the original yesterday, which is much more disturbing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I feel like I've seen it before in my life.
Marc:Like, I don't remember, like, because when I realized it was a remake and I saw it was in it, I think I saw bits and pieces of it flipping through.
Marc:On TV or something, yeah.
Marc:But I've seen a lot of Don Siegel's movies.
Marc:I've certainly seen most of Clint Eastwood's movies.
Marc:But I don't think I saw that one, which is this weird outlier, really.
Marc:It's an art film.
Marc:It's definitely like a 70s art film, but it's also kind of off-brand for Clint, I would imagine, at that time.
Guest:Yeah, very much so.
Marc:And it was surprising.
Marc:It was surprising to watch it for the first time coming out of your film.
Marc:Because something about that movie, I mean, I imagine you've been asked this before, but what was it that made you decide to do that movie?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I had never seen the film.
Guest:People that really know movies, it's a classic in that kind of genre.
Guest:But my friend Anne Ross, who's my production designer, she said, oh, I just saw this movie, The Beguiled, this Don Siegel, Clint Eastwood movie.
Guest:You need to see it.
Guest:I think you need to remake it.
Guest:And I was like, oh, ha ha.
Guest:You know, I would never ever think of remaking someone else's movie.
Guest:And then I watched it and it just stayed in my head.
Guest:It was so weird and not what I expected.
Guest:And it was so odd to me, the story of these women in a Southern girls school and this enemy soldier comes in.
Guest:And so I found the book that was out of print.
Marc:Oh, the actual book it was based on?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was based on a novel by Thomas Cullen.
Guest:And so I found a copy and started looking at it.
Guest:And it's all written by the... Each chapter is a different woman's point of view of this encounter.
Marc:Oh, and the characters.
Guest:Yeah, the characters.
Guest:So then I just started thinking about how I would love to make a new version that's all from their point of view and start in their world.
Guest:And then this...
Guest:They haven't seen a man in years and then an enemy soldier comes in and it's all very heated.
Guest:So that was how I... And then Universal had it in their library and I asked them if they would let me take it out and make a new version.
Marc:What does that mean they had it in their library?
Marc:They owned it?
Guest:They owned it because they had made the original film.
Marc:And they still own it.
Guest:So they continue to pay licenses on... I think you have to buy it outright when you make the film and then it stays in your archive.
Guest:So I asked them if they could take it out and dust it off and...
Marc:So you had to dig up that book, and I guess that would explain the weird kind of subconscious voiceovers in the original, that you have these moments.
Marc:That must be right out of the book, in a way, or a way to accommodate the point of view thing.
Guest:Yeah, the Don Siegel movie has a lot of voiceover and flashbacks, and you know right away he's a bad guy, where I wanted to be more in the woman's point of view of trying to figure out... Well, that was the thing.
Marc:Because I left your movie...
Marc:I like your movies because they're provocative in a way that, you know, a lot of movies you watch and you get and then you kind of catalog them either as good movies or like I kind of remember that movie.
Marc:But it seems that certainly the last three movies that you do that you did in my memory, you kind of walk out and you question yourself somehow and your life and, you know, why did you have this reaction to these movies?
Marc:Well, that's good.
Marc:That's what you want.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, of course.
Guest:I'm happy people stays with them or you think about it.
Marc:Not wrap it all up.
Marc:Right.
Marc:The weird thing about your version of the film was that somehow or another, like in Seagulls, within two minutes, you're like, no, this guy's bad.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:There's no gray area.
Marc:I don't know what genre it would be in.
Marc:Is it a horror movie?
Marc:What is that movie?
Guest:it's a little bit more horror but i like to just think of southern gothic southern gothic oh yeah okay that makes sense but like you know right out of the gate you're like holy shit clint eastwood is is not regular clint eastwood yeah no i don't know what i'd love to know what they were talking about when they first when don single wanted to do that that opening scene just that movie and yeah but yeah what provoked it yeah yeah i'm just curious how that all came to be but
Marc:But in your version, once the turn of events happens, and I don't know if there are spoilers with a movie that's being remade, but certainly I'll treat it as such.
Guest:Yeah, it's still fun if the audience doesn't know.
Marc:No, I didn't see it, and I watch a lot of movies, and if I did see it, I didn't remember the original.
Marc:But once the turn of events happened, I think the big difference is that...
Marc:whether it's a point of view thing or not is that your mcburney uh by colin farrell is a is a sympathetic character whereas clint's is like in in no way unless you're perverse yeah you know he's a bad guy right from the get-go right but this one i feel like you're not quite sure it's that moment of like i oh i want to trust him but i know maybe i shouldn't
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But he's, you know, he's definitely, there was a weird turn in it.
Marc:But like, my point was, is that after what happens, happens, you know, in, you know, pretty far into the movie, really, was that like the beginning of act three, almost?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, even after that happens.
Marc:Even as a man, I'm sort of like, well, it's kind of understandable.
Guest:I know.
Guest:No, I think it's really different whether a man or a woman watches it, how you relate to it.
Guest:I think it's really different.
Marc:Like, oddly, that character and the power of sex and violence and all this stuff that's sort of the underlying themes of this thing are sort of eternal issues within men and women and people.
Guest:Yeah, that's what I loved about the story is because we can still relate to all those dynamics.
Guest:And then the power shift between the men and the women in the story.
Guest:It's so, you know, a heightened version in the story.
Guest:But, you know, it goes back and forth with who's in charge and is he a guest or a prisoner.
Guest:And I thought it was fun to get into all that.
Marc:But in shooting it, because it's very apparent and over explained in the original movie.
Marc:So what was the challenge of, you know, dealing with the book and the script, you know, when you were constructing the thing?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I wanted you to not be clear more in their point of view of, you know, can we trust this guy?
Guest:And, oh, he's charming.
Guest:It's nice to have him around and going back and forth.
Marc:And they're all just like, they're just like wet all the time.
Guest:Well, yeah, they've been so cut off.
Marc:Right, right.
Guest:And then they were like raised to be lovely ladies for men and there's no men around.
Guest:And then he comes in and they're all turned upside down.
Guest:I love that you're like in the heat of the South and they're all repressed.
Guest:And Miss Martha Nicole's character is very religious, is torn between like she likes to have him around, but we shouldn't really keep this enemy here.
Guest:And so they're all kind of turned around.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And for him, it kind of starts out as like a fantasy that he has these ladies on lace pillows taking care of him.
Guest:And then as it goes on, he's, you know, he's their prisoner.
Marc:Kirsten Dunst's character.
Marc:What's her name?
Guest:Edwina.
Marc:Edwina.
Marc:She was great.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Your relationship with her has gone on a long time.
Guest:Yeah, she was 16 when we worked together the first time.
Marc:Non-version suicides?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then you used her as the lead.
Marc:But she seems, as she gets older, to be evolving into this, like, there's a strange depth to her that, you know, that, like, is, there's a vulnerability, yet there's also, like, something, like a darkness.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I saw that in her when I first met her because she looks like this kind of pretty all-American blonde, but then there was always something deep behind her eyes and she just is as a person.
Guest:And so I think it comes out more and more.
Guest:And I think she's surprising in this because it's a really quiet performance, but she conveys a lot of, I don't know, she's like the heart of the movie because she has so much vulnerability.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And Farrell was really good.
Marc:He can really do it when he wants to.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm glad he has a dark side and can tap into it.
Marc:Yeah, pretty easily.
Marc:How many people did you look at for that role?
Guest:I met a bunch of people, but when I met him, I had met him a long time ago, but when I met him for this, he's so charismatic and charming, and he's so masculine.
Guest:And Elle Fanning, she was the 11 when I did Somewhere.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So it was fun to ask her to... That's been that long ago already?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:She played the daughter.
Guest:She played the daughter, and now she's 18, so it was her first kind of, I don't know, first, but seeing her as a young woman and playing the bad girl.
Marc:And again, in the Siegel version, that girl is really bad.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's pretty.
Marc:Well, it's interesting.
Marc:Were you conscious of that all these characters represented some strain of the feminine character?
Marc:They're all pretty well-defined.
Yeah.
Guest:I like that they were women at different stages of maturity.
Guest:So they're relating to him at that level of where they are at that moment.
Guest:And Elle's character is never, you know, she's just at that age where she's kind of coming into her sexuality and there's no men around.
Guest:And then he shows up and she's...
Guest:yeah you know beside herself yeah and she's always presenting herself as a yeah to him and and um and i love that she's this kind of in the book that character was really self-centered her mother raised her to like get a rich husband so there's you know certain women that are geared towards being attractive to men at all times right and it's also part of that culture i think so yeah it was fun to see it's a part of culture in general kind of
Guest:Well, I feel like it's heightened in the southern ladies.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:It was shameless.
Marc:It was not coded.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:So she's a full example of that.
Marc:And why the decision then, like I imagine you had to ask certain questions because the African-American, the slave in seagulls, and I imagine in the book, was a pretty elemental part.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I felt like in the movie, she's the side character.
Guest:And I just felt like I didn't want to... It's such an important subject.
Guest:I didn't want to just kind of brush over it lightly with the side character.
Guest:So I felt... I decided not to have that character at all and just focus on the women.
Guest:And a lot of the slaves had left at that time.
Guest:So they're just really cut off entirely.
Guest:And they had to figure out how to live on their own.
Marc:Because it seems like in...
Marc:in the original movie there's just no relief from the menace of one character or another right and and you chose to just focus on you know the ideas and and you know what would be the the legitimate human feelings of all these women
Guest:Yeah, and it's just really about the women and a man coming in and focused on that dynamic.
Marc:But how much of the Nicole Kidman character in the book was, you know, had all that kind of like incesty, creepy, southern, gothic?
Marc:Was it in the book?
Guest:Yeah, it's in the book.
Guest:And I just decided to keep that out because I wanted it to be about, you know, desire.
Guest:And it's not like perverted from some incest story.
Guest:And, you know, like that it could just be that, you know, a woman has a desire that's cut off and she's very religious and there's no men around.
Marc:And you just stripped it down.
Marc:Yeah, she didn't have to be... Geraldine Page was just disturbing.
Guest:Yeah, it's much more disturbing, that character.
Guest:And I wanted that character to be not as crazy and more attractive and not just like...
Marc:But the woman who played Edwina was that was that character seems out of all of them to be pretty, pretty closest closest to the original.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She was the vulnerable one.
Guest:And yeah.
Guest:And I like that about her.
Guest:And then Kirsten made her version.
Marc:And I also like that some of the little girls have like are the smartest ones there because they're not, you know, jaded by desire in a way.
Guest:Yeah, I love the little girl, Addison Rickey, who plays Marie, who comes up with the mushroom plan.
Marc:Yeah, she's great.
Marc:Like, I like that, you know, in their childhood, you know, like minds, the logic is very pure.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:They can see what's going on.
Guest:They're not clouded by like, ugh.
Guest:By a desire.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Which in the original, the 12-year-old is completely... Smitten.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But yeah, because of that opening scene.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But you did take... I was surprised that in terms of setting, that it seems like the tone is similar.
Marc:Like right from the get-go, the two movies open with a similar shot, really.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I think that they have like a war montage.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, they really established the Civil War.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But in ours, yeah, we follow her to discover him.
Guest:I can't remember in the original if maybe you meet him first.
Guest:No, I think she finds him and it's a surprise.
Marc:I think he did a great job like just excising the backstories that were so heavy handed in the original that really don't allow the characters to be human in a way.
Guest:Yeah, I wanted you to be able to relate to them, even though it's a really over-the-top situation.
Guest:But have them be human underneath that.
Marc:And the actors help with that.
Marc:But in yours, it's not that over-the-top.
Marc:It makes sense.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:In the original, once you see the flashback of what really happened in the battle with him, you're like, this guy's just shitty on all levels.
Guest:Yeah, I think it's much more intriguing not to know.
Marc:Yeah, like he cops the cowardice.
Guest:Yeah, you want to know if you don't know, oh, he's bad and they're good.
Marc:Yeah, and then there's all the creepy shit.
Marc:But the one scene that I thought.
Guest:And there's a psychedelic montage.
Marc:Oh, yeah, the dream.
Marc:Lesbian fan scene.
Marc:Yeah, the dream sequence.
Marc:Geraldine Page's dream sequence.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think that was just a. A product of the era.
Marc:At the time.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Or something Don was dealing with.
Marc:How can I get two women to kiss?
Guest:I wish Don was around to... To defend himself?
Guest:No, just to hear more about it.
Marc:He made some good movies, right?
Marc:Of course.
Marc:It's interesting, though, too, after whatever Clint went through in those early movies, that he as a director is somewhat feminist in his movies.
Guest:Yeah, that is interesting.
Marc:It's odd, right?
Marc:The ones he made himself are very sensitive to it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But yeah, also in the original, and then we're going to talk about other things.
Marc:But in the original, the gore was... They had it in there.
Marc:I was surprised because in your movie... They went for it.
Marc:Well, they went for it, but it was almost ridiculous.
Marc:Blood in the 70s was just this weird red paint that was everywhere.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But like when that thing happens, it happens in the movie.
Marc:You're like, oh, my God.
Marc:Well, they tried their best.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:You know, at least there was.
Marc:But in yours, like you're like, you know, it was very, you know, you had to do it real.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think I was trying to make it realistic.
Marc:So I so I like the movie.
Marc:It's beautiful.
Marc:It was shot beautifully.
Marc:You won a big prize.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah, and Cannes, thank you.
Marc:I have no idea what Cannes is like.
Marc:I've talked to some people about it, and you've probably been there a lot with your dad and with other movies.
Marc:Is it glamorous and exciting, or is it just a big clusterfuck, like a European version of South by Southwest?
Guest:I've never been a South by Southwest.
Marc:Really?
Guest:You elitist.
Guest:No, I just missed it.
Guest:I would like to.
Guest:It's in Austin, right?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Well, they have all different South bys now.
Marc:They have the film, the television, the music.
Marc:It's a big enterprise.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'd like to, but yeah, can, it's always glamorous.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, especially in the, in the seventies, I remember going as a kid and cause it still had like hippies and black tie and it had, and I remember, uh, Cheech and Chong up in smoke.
Guest:There's a huge joint on the closet and then people in tuxedos and it was just a glamorous time.
Guest:That's a childhood memory is Cheech and Chong.
Guest:They make an impact Cheech and Chong.
Guest:I know my brothers, my big brothers got to go and I, I wasn't allowed to go to up in smoke.
Guest:Um, it stayed with me, but, um, I had them here.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah, as like, you know, after they've gone through all they've gone through, and they were sort of trying to, you know, get out in the world again.
Guest:That's so cool.
Guest:What was so funny, because like I'm wearing these headphones, and like I grew up listening to Cheech and Chag, is that the two of them talk like that.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:So when you hear them interacting with each other, you're like, oh my God, this is Cheech and Chag record.
Guest:It's blowing your mind.
Guest:It was kind of.
Guest:That's so cool.
Guest:But yeah, Can is always exciting and glamorous, and it's always kind of nerve-wracking to show your movie there.
Guest:It's in this beautiful big theater with a great screen in the best way, but it's nerve-wracking because they're notorious for booing and being harsh.
Marc:How did it, like outside of winning Best Director, how was it?
Marc:It went well.
Marc:They reacted well?
Guest:Yeah, so that was a relief.
Guest:It was exciting.
Guest:It was the first time I'd seen it finished and with the cast.
Guest:And so it was near there on the south of France.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It was exciting.
Marc:Kidman seems to be really kind of working.
Marc:Like she's out a lot and she's doing interesting roles.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm always impressed that she does interesting parts and supports different kinds of movies.
Guest:And when I asked her to do this, she, you know, a day later she said, yes, it wasn't a whole process.
Guest:She was really enthusiastic and it's cool to see all the different things she's doing.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I've always loved her as an actress.
Marc:Yeah, me too.
Marc:And like there was this period where she wasn't around much and now like she's really kind of sinking her teeth into some real shit.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It's cool.
Marc:Like the Lion movie.
Marc:Is that what it's called?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She was great in that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And is she a nice person?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:She's really nice.
Guest:She's really warm.
Guest:And she's so kind of regal and tall and imposing.
Guest:And so then it's always a surprise that she's so warm and, you know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What's your relationship with your movies and your old man?
Marc:Do you show him?
Marc:Do you ask him for advice?
Guest:Yeah, this one I showed him when I was just finishing editing.
Guest:So he didn't read it or he didn't know anything about it.
Guest:He's like, I don't want to know anything until I see it.
Guest:And I was wondering what he was going to think of it.
Guest:I thought, oh God, what's he going to think?
Guest:And then he watched it and he really liked it.
Guest:And he said, oh, Nicole's character was so brave that she had to figure out how to do that.
Guest:And I was really surprised.
Guest:So it's always fun to...
Marc:Has he always been supportive?
Marc:I imagine he has.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:He's always been.
Guest:And when I was starting, he was more kind of anxious for me and trying to give advice.
Guest:And now he is just into how I do things.
Marc:After you win a couple of Academy Awards, he's like, no, maybe she's doing all right.
Guest:You got it.
Guest:I think parents always worry about it.
Guest:But no, he's sweet.
Guest:He's really enthusiastic.
Guest:So it helped to finish editing knowing that it can't be that bad if he liked it.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Well, of course.
Marc:And can you, like, throughout your filmmaking career, was he...
Marc:i mean i don't you know i'm not diminishing anything but i would have to assume like you know you know i asked the same question you know to you know to jacob dylan you know because you get this this idea that's sort of like you know that you got to have your own life and you got to be separate and like when i asked him it's like i said does he you know you know he he his father's the greatest songwriter ever so he's like he asked he mentioned lyrics
Marc:Well, yeah, he's like, well, I have access to the greatest songwriter ever.
Marc:And, you know, we have a shorthand because, you know, like there's this assumption that there's sometimes friction.
Marc:I never got that with you.
Marc:But early on, was he more did he give advice around, you know, the actual act of directing?
Guest:I remember him coming on set when I was doing my first movie on Virgin Suicides and he kept saying, you need to say action louder.
Guest:They have to know you're in charge.
Guest:And I was like, okay, dad, let me do it my way.
Guest:And yeah, so there's always, you know, just kind of parent.
Marc:Right, but other than that, no kind of like, you know, shooting stuff or story ideas other than the third act thing that you seem to remember?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:No, I mean, I always...
Guest:Before I do a movie, sometimes I'll ask him just kind of refresher courses.
Guest:Like on this, I'll ask about his rehearsal process because he always has a really interesting way he rehearses with actors.
Guest:Just to spend time with the actors before.
Guest:He came from theater, so he did a lot of theater games.
Guest:And he said it was really important to get them together and have them make a meal together and make real food and eat together.
Guest:And that's something that he did in The Godfather where he had the family come together and make a meal.
Guest:And then he said ever since that,
Guest:improv that the actors just change their relationships with each other.
Guest:So I've done that on film.
Guest:So I always like to talk to him about how he works with actors to prepare before the shooting.
Guest:I think that's really helpful.
Marc:Yeah, because like some people, I've talked to Walter Hill and maybe one or two other people that people were, I think directors really approach that differently.
Marc:That like some directors with Walter, it was interesting because he was like, well, let me just dispel the myth
Marc:That, you know, the director is some sort of hands on guide with an actor because he basically said, look, you hire the person to do a job and then they do the job.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:So much of it is just the casting.
Guest:People are asking, like, how do you work with the actors?
Guest:It's like I cast the people I think can do it and then I let them do it.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think that's some sort of weird.
Marc:I don't know where that idea of the director kind of like getting in and working with.
Marc:I mean, there are scenes, though, when your father, you know, on on Apocalypse Now in that documentary that I think your mother shot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I know.
Marc:And they're still together.
Guest:Yeah, it's not incredible.
Marc:It is sort of incredible.
Guest:Yeah, they've been married for 55 years.
Marc:Well, it seems like at the core of it, your dad's a pretty sweet guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He got a little crazy for a while.
Guest:What are you going to do?
Guest:He's an artist.
Guest:He got ups and downs, but he's sweet.
Marc:But that scene where he's like, I got to deal with crazy Marlon.
Marc:We have Dennis Hopper and Marlon Brando.
Marc:He hasn't read the book.
Marc:so like i like i imagine that that thing was very hands-on but like you know even though you're dealing with these great actors like you know he had to he had almost a there's that scene that that always kills me is that john millius you know talking about why he took the job he says like uh francis had convinced me this would be the first film to win the nobel prize
Guest:Oh, right.
Marc:So good.
Marc:So you're dealing with a guy that was like... A lot of passion.
Marc:I guess passion is a diplomatic word for it.
Marc:But you generally just, you know, you have a meal.
Marc:And what do you do with that meal?
Marc:Do you talk about the characters?
Marc:Oh, no.
Guest:In character.
Guest:They do it in character.
Marc:Oh, that's the improv.
Guest:That's...
Guest:Yeah, they're in character and they make a meal together as a family or their group.
Guest:And like for our movie, we had them in a house, you know, and Nicole's character was in charge of everything.
Guest:And all the dynamics of the characters start to come out.
Guest:So you do like, it's like rehearsals, but they're more improv.
Marc:And it's just you guys.
Marc:There's no crew or nothing.
Guest:No, it's just them and me.
Guest:And it's fun.
Marc:Do you engage with them or do you just watch?
Guest:no i try to stay out of it or i'll whisper something to to try something but no it's just more for them to to feel up being in the characters and they start to wear the corsets and that's why there's something about i never would have never thought of it but my dad said when you have food it becomes like sensory and sure it connects you yeah yeah yeah and they're kind of bonded yeah that and start to feel like the characters in this it helps to do it in a setting did you have southern food
Marc:um i think they made breakfast together yeah like biscuits and gravy or no no just regular breakfast were people eating healthy because i think that would diminish it seems like you have some actresses there that were sort of like you know maybe not bread and no no it wasn't too maybe that was wrong of me to say but i know yeah i hear you and you've done that with all your movies you did that with uh with dorf on you know and
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I mean, we always try to do a rehearsal period where the actors spend time together.
Guest:And when we were doing somewhere, Stephen took Elle to do... He picked her up from school and took her bowling and to do things together.
Guest:So that when we started filming, they had, you know, just kind of making a history.
Marc:I think that was an interesting choice for, you know, for casting.
Marc:Because, like, he's one of those guys that looked like it was going to be huge.
Marc:And then he's kind of been around...
Guest:I know, I think he's such a good actor.
Marc:I think so, too.
Guest:But, yeah, and he was so that guy and has a lot of heart, but it's true, he hasn't had as many opportunities to do his thing.
Marc:Yeah, and that movie was sort of, like, heartbreaking just because of the nature of that.
Marc:I don't, you know, a lot of times I talk about, you know, I think that people in show business get sort of dismissed by the culture in terms of, like, people who aren't enamored with celebrity think that, like, what do you guys really do?
Marc:Yeah, which really sort of annoys me because the the the process of making art or make or doing acting and doing direct.
Marc:It's like it's it's hard work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think if you if you do it well, it looks easy like any like anyone that's good at what they do.
Marc:I think I guess so.
Marc:I you know, I just I it annoys me lately that there's this idea that, you know, we're all slacking out here.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, you know, just sort of like, no, you guys, what are you, just actors?
Marc:It's like, yeah, yeah, we're keeping, you know, we're trying to balance the horror.
Marc:We're trying to have some culture going, yeah.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:But in that movie, was that, how much of that was from sort of personal experience?
Marc:I mean, you know, growing up in show business and you having done some acting yourself, you know, and knowing all these actors and having them in your family...
Marc:uh you know it seemed to be a very sympathetic and very specific you know profile portrait of somebody in this business you know which i i think is not easy to do necessarily yeah i just i feel like spending time with chateau roman i've seen those guys there's a lot of it was he was a mix of a lot of different actors and you never hung out there
Guest:I did in the 90s.
Marc:I did.
Marc:I did.
Guest:And yes, it was a lot based on... But yeah, I knew people like that.
Guest:And I wrote it right after I had my first daughter.
Guest:So I was thinking about kind of the idea of being a parent.
Marc:And you'd already been divorced once.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, my 20s.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So luckily I didn't have kids that round.
Guest:But yeah, so this I was thinking about.
Guest:I just had a baby and I was thinking about, I don't know, being a parent.
Guest:And then those...
Guest:And just knowing kind of guys like that.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And then there's, of course, part of my dad.
Guest:The character's not like my dad at all, but just when they go to Italy, I've had trips like that with my dad with lots of ice cream.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It's sweet.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But like played up against the sort of like, I don't know, the men, like even with the Bill Murray character in Lost in Translation, it's like...
Marc:To be lost.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know you see that.
Marc:Huh?
Guest:I don't know you see that in certain people.
Guest:Oh, no, definitely.
Marc:But, you know, but also to be so, you know, like people know of you or they know who, you know, it's a strange thing to have a public personality.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And yet, you know, behind it, there's just this melancholy or existential kind of like despair thing.
Guest:Yeah, I don't know.
Guest:I've seen that in people.
Marc:Yeah, I think it happens in all occupations.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But, you know, the public face is sort of like this strange thing that you have to, you kind of have to be that guy.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:People want you to be.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, now working with those two, with Scarlett at that point in her career and with Bill, did you do the improvisations with them?
Guest:I don't think we did.
Guest:I think they both showed up in Tokyo and we just were winging it.
Guest:But the characters didn't know each other, so it was okay.
Guest:I think it's more in films where the characters are supposed to have a history together.
Marc:Right, right.
Guest:In that one, they didn't know each other, so we all kind of just showed up in Tokyo and hit the ground running.
Marc:And that was, like, you got him at a good point.
Marc:Like, he's such an amazing talent of some kind.
Guest:I know.
Marc:What a trip.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I was so happy when he showed up.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I love when he sings, like, to give him a microphone.
Guest:We actually all went to karaoke.
Guest:That was fun.
Marc:Oh, you did?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:On some downtime?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When we were prepping, it was fun.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's always fun to be around Bill Murray.
Marc:It is, right?
Guest:And he's touring right now with a... Have you heard about his music tour that he's doing?
Marc:I didn't.
Marc:he's um yeah i don't know what they're called but he's he has a like a four-piece classical music group and he's singing like van morrison's oh yeah i heard one song it was really touching yeah well he has a lot of heart well that's the thing he's you know and a heavy heart yeah yeah you know like it's a it's it's very interesting that what that that part of him that he's able to put out there you know if cast right and just in general um
Marc:that you know i i don't know what the word is but but lovable i guess it is lovable groundhog day he said when he's downtrodden yeah i don't know there's something lovable yeah yeah yeah like he just can't get a leg up in a way and and he's immediately sympathetic somehow yeah even when he's playing you know he doesn't really play assholes that often no but
Marc:Scrooged maybe Scrooged and also that one with Melissa McCarthy but that guy had a lot of heart too yeah he always has heart I think so right I think that's the trick with him is like no matter how much of an asshole he may be there's that thing he has yeah how did you direct that Christmas special how did that happen
Guest:how did that come apart i think i was um i was i love when bill sings and i was saying oh i wish you would just do a week at the at the carlisle singing old standards i'd just love to see bill singing um you know chet baker and um and then our friend mitch glazer who's a writer that is works with bill a lot they were talking about doing some kind of show and and we thought oh can we incorporate the music into that and
Guest:We thought, oh, maybe we'll do a Valentine's special.
Guest:And somehow it turned into a Christmas special.
Guest:But Bill and Mitch were talking about doing some kind of a TV thing.
Marc:And that's how we put it all together.
Marc:So what happens now?
Marc:You're going to have a big premiere tonight?
Guest:Yeah, our movie, we have a premiere tonight and then it comes out this weekend.
Guest:It's exciting, right?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:We shot it last fall in New Orleans.
Marc:Now the premiere, does the whole family go?
Guest:No, my parents are, they're not around, but I have a lot of cousins that are coming.
Marc:Is Nicolas Cage coming?
Guest:Oh, I wish.
Guest:He's living in Las Vegas.
Guest:I invited him, but I don't think he's here.
Marc:I always wanted to think that you guys are all in touch a lot.
Guest:I just saw him.
Guest:I was in Las Vegas for something for the movie, and he took me and Kirsten out in a stretch limo, and we went to a show, and it was really fun.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:He's a character, huh?
Guest:Yeah, he's really fun.
Marc:And Jason, like he's got a kid now and you guys.
Guest:He has three.
Guest:Three?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:When did that happen?
Guest:I know.
Guest:Was there a new one?
Guest:Yeah, there's a little boy now.
Guest:Yeah, that's cute.
Guest:And yeah, my daughter and his daughter are close in age and they're pals.
Marc:So it's been a while since the last movie.
Marc:You do spend time between movies, huh?
Guest:Yeah, it takes me a while because I write the script, and I never really know what I'm doing when I finish a movie.
Guest:It takes a moment to figure out what I want to do next, and then I write the script.
Guest:By the time you get it together, it takes a few years.
Marc:I try to have a life in between.
Marc:You do?
Marc:Well, you have kids.
Marc:Yeah, I have two kids.
Marc:You're in New York, and you're married to a musician.
Marc:There's life to be had.
Marc:Do you go see music?
Marc:What do you do?
Marc:As a grown-up.
Marc:I don't know what to do as a grown-up.
Marc:Do you?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It's all a blur.
Marc:Like dinner with people?
Marc:I imagine kids make it a little more immediate.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Kid stuff.
Guest:Yeah, but I don't know.
Guest:We hang out with friends.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because I was just in New York and I decided I needed to go to Lincoln Center and see jazz.
Marc:And you can just do that there.
Guest:I have to do that more living in New York.
Marc:I don't do it.
Marc:And now I'm at this age where I'm like, am I missing something?
Marc:Because, I don't know, life is pretty fulfilling.
Marc:But there seems to be these things that are supposed to be really amazing.
Guest:And did you enjoy it?
Marc:Yeah, I loved it.
Marc:Are you kidding?
Marc:It's like a bunch of dudes with horns up there.
Marc:I know.
Guest:I have to do that.
Guest:I feel like New York has so many, just always something going on like that.
Marc:And your grandfather was a composer, right?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Did you, like, do you have memories of that?
Marc:Like, had that being important?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I went and saw him conducting, he did the performance in front of Napoleon.
Marc:I saw that when I was in college.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah, it was like a big deal.
Guest:Yeah, it was at that era, because I saw it at the Colosseum in Rome.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Marc:Your dad put it together, right?
Marc:He re-edited it in a triptych.
Marc:I remember it was a big deal.
Guest:Yeah, I guess they preserved it.
Marc:Abogance's Napoleon.
Guest:Yeah, I remember it became red, white, and blue at one point.
Marc:Yeah, with a live orchestra conducted by Carmine Coppola.
Guest:Yeah, I don't know how that came about.
Marc:Yeah, I remember seeing it like, wow!
Marc:It was a silent movie, and there was a whole orchestra.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I think he did Koyaanaskatsi.
Marc:Didn't he produce that, too, or no?
Guest:Yeah, his company... And there's still a company.
Marc:They do your movie sometimes?
Guest:American Zoetrope, yeah.
Marc:What else do they do?
Marc:Do you have... Are you...
Guest:um they you know not so many other projects but we always have little things going and um do you remember the time we directed a musical that my dad one from the heart and they showed it at radio city i remember yeah that was i love that movie the style of it yeah they were shooting it they rebuilt las vegas in a sound stage right here in hollywood right and i remember that at the time he's like i have this amazing technology where you can watch the take right after on video yeah it was digital it was like the first time
Marc:What's the lead in that?
Guest:Terry Garr and Freddie Forrest.
Guest:Freddie Forrest.
Guest:I love that soundtrack album.
Marc:It's great with Tom Waits, Crystal Gale.
Marc:I have that.
Guest:It's a great record.
Guest:It's great just to listen to that soundtrack.
Marc:Were you on set for that?
Guest:Yeah, I was.
Guest:I was roller skating around the lot.
Marc:What happened to Fred Forrest?
Marc:I haven't seen him in a long time.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:He's a good actor.
Guest:Yeah, he's great.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So do you have anything else in mind in terms of like what you're going to do next?
Marc:I know you're in the middle of this thing.
Guest:No, I'm just excited for this to come out and summer vacation.
Marc:I think it's amazing.
Marc:Who was the DP on it?
Guest:Oh, he's so great.
Guest:Philippe Lessord.
Guest:He's a Frenchman.
Guest:It's good to have a French cinematographer.
Marc:Yeah, man, all that like mist and what kind of trees are those?
Guest:The big oak trees with Spanish moss.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And he had a lot of like smoke machines going.
Guest:We shot on 35 millimeter film, which was exciting.
Marc:But that's all shot on 35?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Huh.
Guest:And I hope people see in the theater because I think it's.
Marc:I need to see it in theater.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You can come tonight or this week we're showing it.
Marc:You've shown it a few times?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, it's going to be at the New Beverly with a double feature with the Don Siegel movie.
Marc:It is?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When?
Guest:Wednesday.
Guest:Quentin Tarantino is hosting.
Guest:Oh, can I get into that?
Marc:Yeah, of course.
Marc:Is it all sold out?
Guest:I'm sure I have a ticket.
Marc:That's on Wednesday?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Double feature.
Guest:Because I want to see the Don Siegel movie in the theater.
Marc:Oh my God.
Guest:Yeah, come.
Guest:I'll find out what time.
Marc:We'll set it up.
Marc:Well, I think you did a great job.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:It's exciting to meet you.
Marc:It's exciting to meet you, too.
Marc:Do you think we covered it?
Guest:I think so.
Marc:Yeah, we got it all for most of it.
Marc:Where'd you shoot this thing?
Guest:In New Orleans.
Marc:It almost looks like the same house from the Don Siegel movie.
Guest:Oh, we couldn't get that house.
Guest:You tried?
Guest:I tried to figure it out, but it's been restored.
Guest:But we shot at an old plantation outside of town, and then we shot in New Orleans.
Marc:How long were you down there?
Guest:We were there from October to early December.
Marc:And how was that experience?
Marc:Have you been there before?
Guest:I've only been there for a couple days at a time.
Guest:I went to Jazz Fest before, but I've never spent time there.
Guest:I love New Orleans.
Guest:Everyone's so nice there and good food.
Marc:It's another one of those cities where you're like, right when you get there, you're like, this is its own place.
Guest:Yeah, there's nowhere else like it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's so distinct, the way it looks and the feeling of it.
Marc:It's kind of a weird, magical thing.
Guest:It is.
Guest:I love it.
Guest:And it was fun to come with kids, too.
Guest:And I thought it'd just be like drunk people with plastic cups.
Guest:We stayed in the French Quarter.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But it was really fun.
Guest:And everyone there was really friendly.
Marc:Do you bring your family on set with you like your dad did?
Guest:They came to visit, but they stayed in school in New York, but they came over Thanksgiving.
Marc:So your dad would just take you out of school?
Guest:Yeah, I can't multiply.
Guest:I never learned how to multiply.
Guest:It's really pathetic.
Guest:Yeah, we just would leave school, and it was fun, though.
Guest:It was always fun to go on location.
Marc:And to go to school wherever you were?
Guest:Yeah, I went to just the local school, wherever it was.
Marc:That's so wild.
Guest:I guess family was always... That was the priority.
Marc:It was very important to them.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you think it was like, you know...
Marc:Was it because he liked having the family together or he needed to have you guys there?
Guest:Oh, I think it's, yeah, I never thought about that.
Guest:I think it's the Italian thing of keeping the family together.
Guest:But he told me, and I don't remember when he was in Cannes for Apocalypse Now, there's a, you can see footage of his press conference, and I'm on his lap, and he said, I just thought that they'd be, you know, less harsh to him if I had a kid on my lap.
Guest:A shield.
Guest:Yeah, so I was like, thanks, so...
Guest:And were they?
Guest:I don't know how it went, how hard a time they gave him.
Guest:I think it went well.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:But it was, you know, a little close to the Vietnam War time to be making something about that.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And it just seemed like he's relaxed, you know, since that movie, certainly.
Guest:Oh, yes, yes.
Marc:I mean, like, it must have been a process.
Marc:I can't.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, he's more mellow now.
Marc:And he likes wine.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:It was good talking to you, Sophia.
Guest:Thank you.
Thank you.
Marc:awesome i very much enjoyed meeting sofia coppola and talking to her very nice and very amazingly talented and i love the new movie the beguiled all right go to wtfpod.com for all that get on the mailing list i can't play guitar it's hot in here
Marc:I haven't showered since I got off the plane, so I stink.
Marc:I haven't changed.
Marc:I have to decide what I'm going to wear to the premiere tonight of GLOW.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Going to a premiere.
Marc:Got to wear something.
Marc:Maybe they're going to take some pictures of me.
Marc:Who thought this shit was going to happen to me?
Marc:I'll tell you who didn't.
Marc:Me.
Guest:Boomer lives!
Guest:Boomer lives!
you