Episode 806 - Mark Lanegan / Mac DeMarco
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what's happening i'm mark maron this is wtf my podcast i don't it probably sounds a little different right
Marc:It sounds different to me and it feels different as well.
Marc:You know why?
Marc:Because I'm recording not at my house.
Marc:I'm not at my garage.
Marc:Do you want to know why?
Marc:Because the electricity is out here in Los Angeles.
Marc:Do you want to know why?
Marc:I guess because it got windy.
Marc:Yeah, that must be it.
Marc:It got windy out and my entire neighborhood has no electricity.
Marc:And I'm actually recording this a couple of days early because I'm going out on the last leg of my tour, heading into my special, which will be recording in Minneapolis on Saturday night, day after tomorrow, if you're listening to this on Thursday.
Marc:Oh, and by the way, on Thursday, I'm in Milwaukee.
Marc:And on Friday, I'm in Madison, Wisconsin.
Marc:And on Saturday, Minneapolis.
Marc:And there might be some tickets left for that second show of my taping at the Pantages in Minneapolis.
Marc:There's actually, between me and you, there's actually tickets left for Milwaukee and Madison as well.
Marc:I don't know why.
Marc:I've been doing really well with the sales.
Marc:Selling out almost everywhere.
Marc:But something about Wisconsin, just no go on that.
Marc:I'm just telling you, all right?
Marc:I'm just telling you, this is not a Hail Mary pass.
Marc:This is not desperation.
Marc:If you are in Minneapolis on Saturday or Madison, Wisconsin on Friday or Milwaukee, Wisconsin on Thursday, come see me perform if you'd like to do that.
Marc:It's a reasonably priced ticket.
Marc:I don't know what it is, but I know it's not a pricey ticket.
Marc:And again, go to the source.
Marc:Go to the venue's website.
Marc:Don't just Google Marc Maron tickets Milwaukee because then a scalper site will come up and you'll say, holy shit, $12,000 for center row orchestra?
Marc:That seems steep.
Marc:Who does Marc fucking think he is?
Marc:No, that's not the way.
Marc:Oh, I just heard the chair roll.
Marc:All kinds of new sounds because I'm in a different location.
Marc:I'll tell you where I'm at in just a second.
Marc:But first, I'll tell you who's on the show.
Marc:I have two musical guests.
Marc:Neither one of them will be playing music, but we will be talking about music.
Marc:Here's the deal.
Marc:Mark Lanigan, who you know from The Screaming Trees and from his solo work, arguably one of the greatest rock singers of the last two decades.
Marc:I've always loved Mark Lanigan.
Marc:I've not listened to everything he's ever done, but great, great voice.
Marc:So when I got the opportunity to interview Mark Lanigan, I was like, hells yeah.
Marc:So I talked to Mark Lanning.
Marc:And then last week, I get an opportunity to talk to Mac DeMarco.
Marc:Now, Mac DeMarco, I'm new to.
Marc:I don't know where I got his records, but I got a few of the records.
Marc:And I was like, this is weird.
Marc:This is kind of soft and interesting and kind of unique.
Marc:There's some songwriting chops here and there's some guitar chops and it's got a weird production values.
Marc:But my first thought is like, I don't usually like music like this, but I'm sort of interested in this guy.
Marc:I was interested in him as a person and where that music comes from.
Marc:And then all of a sudden I get an opportunity to interview Mac DeMarco.
Marc:So he came over.
Marc:So we're splitting up this episode between Mac DeMarco and Mark Lanigan.
Marc:Pretty interesting, huh?
Marc:How's it sounding in here?
Marc:Because this is not, this is not a, um,
Marc:This is not a sound garage.
Marc:I'm in a painter's garage.
Marc:I'm in Sarah Kane, abstract painter, girlfriend garage, surrounded by paint.
Marc:Just paint everywhere.
Marc:Right to my right, there's a thing, a palette of, I don't know what you call it, several different palettes with all kinds of colors on it.
Marc:And underneath it, there's just a slab of plastic with paint and goop on it.
Marc:There's goop everywhere.
Marc:Paints.
Marc:There's paintings on the wall in different phases of completion.
Marc:But this is where real work gets done.
Marc:More than just talking.
Marc:There's an entire...
Marc:One of those cabinets that things on paper go into.
Marc:And on top of it, there's like a thousand brushes in painty cups and canisters.
Marc:There's honey, which I do not think is used for the paintings.
Marc:I think that's probably a tea item.
Marc:There's an airbrush thing.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:I don't think I've ever looked around her studio before and
Marc:And I'm a little intimidated because I don't know the difference between these brushes.
Marc:There's like at least 8,000 different kinds of brushes.
Marc:I've obviously decided that large numbers are hilarious, and I'm just going to keep...
Marc:saying large numbers over and over again.
Marc:Oh, look, here's a box of a million beaded things that go, sometimes she sews into canvases.
Marc:And this is like, oh, here's a container of, what is that?
Marc:Flowtrol.
Marc:Let's give a shout out to Flowtrol.
Marc:That is a latex paint additive.
Marc:Eliminates brush and roller marks.
Marc:Flotal for all you painters.
Marc:It's also in Spanish.
Marc:Additivo para pintores aletics.
Marc:I don't think I said any of that right.
Marc:So that, I don't know what that does.
Marc:And then this is, what are these?
Marc:What's in here?
Marc:Oh, staples.
Marc:I know what staples do.
Marc:I know how to use stapler.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:I'm on top of something here.
Marc:But there's a lot of works in progress here.
Marc:It's all very exciting.
Marc:She's sitting on the couch.
Marc:You know, painters don't live like regular people.
Marc:They have these spaces.
Marc:This used to be a garage, kind of.
Marc:And now there's like one, two, three, four, like five huge canvases on the wall.
Marc:And then there's a thing that she hangs from for yoga.
Marc:Which I think if I didn't know better, I'd be like, that's an interesting piece.
Marc:I like how you integrated the yoga blanket into the rope things and hung it like that.
Marc:And then you'd say, no, that's actually for that kind of yoga.
Marc:And I'm like, what do you got to ruin it for?
Marc:Why can't I just accept the art for what it is?
Marc:But there's a lot of things going on in here.
Marc:And oh, here's a pencil sharpener.
Marc:Pencil sharpener.
Marc:I kind of want to sharpen a pencil just for the sound.
Marc:I don't know where the pencils are.
Marc:There's a lot of paint and stuff.
Marc:Oh, here's one.
Marc:Do you remember the sound of a pencil sharpener?
Marc:How long was the last time it happened?
Marc:Hold on.
Marc:Wait a minute.
Marc:Oh, that's fun.
Marc:It's really sharp.
Marc:And now you know what's going to happen is one more punch in.
Marc:I'll knock the lead out and then I'll have to start all over, which is really the fun part of sharpening pencils is when you just can't stop sticking the pencil in and you fuck it up every time.
Marc:And then your teacher goes, stop, stop it.
Marc:I'm going to bring the hand one back.
Marc:Are you old enough to remember the hand cranky pencil sharpeners with the several different hole options on the side?
Marc:Someone asked me the other day, they're like, did she ever let you paint?
Marc:And not only has she not let me paint.
Marc:But I never asked her to paint, never thought about painting.
Marc:Why not just say, hey, Mark, how would you like to feel like an idiot in front of your girlfriend, the painter, and ask her if maybe you could have some brushes and a little palette of four colors?
Marc:Just fool around.
Marc:Just have some fun.
Marc:Just have some fun in the painter's studio like a seven-year-old and be encouraged like that.
Marc:That's very creative.
Marc:Now, what happens when you mix those two colors together?
Marc:Look it, it's a whole new color.
Marc:Oh, good job, Mark.
Marc:Can I paint on a canvas?
Marc:No, just use another piece of paper.
Marc:Canvases are expensive and take time.
Marc:She's doing a lot of shit over here that I don't know fucking anything about.
Marc:Just come over here and see these things in different phases of completion.
Marc:I don't see what's going on in here.
Marc:But it's very professional.
Marc:This one over here is like 20 feet tall.
Marc:Maybe 30.
Marc:Is it still funny?
Marc:The numbers?
Marc:The exaggerated numbers?
Marc:Is that wearing thin?
Marc:So, Mac DeMarco.
Marc:I got to be honest with you.
Marc:The agenda of this...
Marc:And I've listened to his records and I was sort of intrigued, but it seemed to me that the undercurrent of what I was trying to do was trying to get him to explain to me why I like his music so much.
Marc:Weird, right?
Marc:I was just trying to track his sources.
Marc:I was just trying to see where he came from.
Marc:I was just trying to get a handle on the guy.
Marc:His new album, This Old Dog, comes out on May 5th.
Marc:So this is me and Mac DeMarco back in my non-painting garage.
Marc:it's weird i don't i don't know you obviously yeah totally but i got that album a few years ago uh two and uh i i don't even know where it came from like i get most people yeah we're kind of like what the hell i get sent records you know and you know the cover was sort of like this guy looks a little dopey somehow
Marc:Like, what's he up to with that guitar and the hat?
Marc:Like, you look like kind of a normal dude.
Guest:Yeah, I'd like to think so.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I did not know what to expect from the record.
Marc:And then I put it on.
Marc:I'm like, well, this is, there's something going on here.
Marc:I don't understand what it is, but I'm in.
Marc:I'm glad.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I don't, it's, you're very hard to, I can't wrap my brain around it because it seems like, it seems pretty laid back, but there must be some fury in there somewhere for me.
Marc:Somewhere, yeah.
Marc:A lot of confusion, yeah.
Marc:For me to, you know, to resonate with it.
Marc:I don't know how to place you, but I guess that's sort of the issue that's good and kind of odd about your trip, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, how old are you?
Marc:26 now, going on 27 this month.
Marc:So you're young.
Marc:You're a young fella.
Guest:I hope so, yeah.
Marc:Where'd you come from?
Marc:Where'd you grow up?
Guest:I grew up in Western Canada, Edmonton, Alberta, home of the Edmonton Oilers.
Guest:We're doing okay right now.
Guest:I don't know that much about hockey, but that's kind of... Really, you're not a hockey guy?
Guest:Not really, but that's the only point of reference a lot of people have.
Marc:Yeah, I'm not a hockey guy either, but I performed in Edmonton.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah, isn't that where the mall is?
Marc:Big mall, yeah.
Marc:I think it was the largest from 91 to 92.
Marc:Right, like the sister mall to the Mall of America.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:And they have, yeah, there's a comedy club in there.
Marc:Yeah, Reds maybe.
Marc:I forget what it was called.
Marc:I don't know what it was called, but I stayed at a hotel connected to the mall, actually.
Marc:Fantasyland, probably.
Marc:Yeah, and I just remember I was on a horse floor, and there were doors where, you know, painted horses in their stables.
Guest:Yeah, it's a weird place.
Guest:They have, like, a life-size Santa Maria, like, boat copy.
Guest:They had dolphins when I was a kid.
Marc:Like real dolphins.
Guest:Yeah, they had, like, a submarine tour, like, skating rinks.
Guest:It was...
Guest:Was it the center of life?
Guest:It was, I mean, that's what they wanted it to be.
Guest:And I think for a couple years, you know, when I was really young or even before, it was like, oh my God.
Guest:But then by the time I was, you know, like 24.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I was like a teenager going.
Guest:It was just like relic of the 80s with like greasy brass handrails and like everything was kind of dirty and there were wings that were just shut down.
Marc:Did you go there in a punk rock way as an older kid just to hang around and cause trouble?
Guest:No, I did that close to my head.
Guest:It was too far.
Guest:It was kind of like the, I don't know.
Guest:I don't know what we'd go over there for.
Guest:It's strange.
Guest:I knew kids when I was younger that used to live.
Guest:They had these tunnels underneath the mall that they were going to extend the train because the train system in Edmonton is not so good.
Guest:They're going to extend the train.
Guest:Never ended up doing it.
Guest:So these tunnels were empty and they'd keep some, but this is all, you know, hearsay, but I like to believe it.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:They kept some of the animals that weren't on display under the mall and then all these like, you know, runaway raver kids would live with these like penguins, you know, and these like...
Guest:That's a pretty good myth.
Marc:Yeah, I like it.
Marc:Cool.
Marc:The penguin raves, they were called.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:No one ever went to one, but everybody heard about it.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Down below.
Marc:Subterranean penguin raves.
Marc:Below them all.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, you were raised in Edmonton.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And when did you start playing the guitar?
Guest:Probably when I was 13 or 14, something like that.
Guest:I got a musical family.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Like how?
Guest:Grandmother is an opera singer.
Guest:She used to teach at the conservatory.
Marc:Like a real opera singer?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like sings in the big opera?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:She was a shredder.
Marc:Really?
Guest:She still is.
Guest:She doesn't sing anymore.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:That's incredible.
Marc:Did she specialize in a certain language?
Guest:You know, to tell you the truth, don't know too well.
Guest:I think she really believed that she was Italian, although it was her husband that was, so I think she... Is that where you get the name?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Where was she from?
Guest:I think she's just Western Canadian as well.
Guest:I mean, when you look back in any Canadian heritage, it's usually English or French or whatever.
Guest:So I think that, but she really... I didn't realize until I was older that it was like... Because I never met my grandfather, but he was the Italian.
Guest:She kept on making the lasagna, the spaghetti...
Guest:oh really it was a sham it was a sham she used to say she was speaking in italian then when i took french immersion i was like that's that's french grandma but uh but she everyone's gotta have their dreams i know i know you know you gotta you know that's kind of sweet though yeah but she would sing in the in is there a big opera house up there um yeah i think that what what is there what is the something that you never saw her do it i saw her do it on a smaller scale when i was a little older i saw her in some operas and stuff when i was pretty young too
Marc:Like a soprano or like how does that work?
Marc:Do you understand it?
Marc:No, I don't understand it at all.
Guest:See, that was the thing I retracted from as a kid.
Guest:I was like, I don't want to go on singing lessons.
Guest:I don't want to go on piano lessons.
Guest:Let me play my video games and leave me alone.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Then eventually all the kids on the playground are like, yeah, I'll learn to play this ACDC riff.
Guest:I'm like, oh, okay, sick.
Guest:They're like, oh, you want music lessons now?
Guest:Great, you know?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Let's do it.
Marc:So that's when he started with guitar?
Marc:Yeah, and then, you know.
Marc:ACDC riff.
Marc:Oh, yeah, hell yeah.
Marc:He's the fucking best.
Marc:yeah yeah angus young is the best angus is cool i go i keep going back to it i mean i'm 53 it's got a great tone you know he's got a great vibe great showman the whole band you know but those licks they're just like it's for a metal dude it's just blues riffs i know i know and that's vibrato oh it's it's sweet yeah that sg man just cutting yeah yeah i listen to it probably every week what are you gonna do nothing you can do about it
Guest:What's your relationship with Eric Andre?
Guest:I went to his birthday party the other night, actually.
Guest:You guys were buddies?
Guest:Sort of, yeah.
Guest:I met him a handful of times.
Guest:It's not like, you know.
Guest:Oh, you don't go way back?
Guest:No.
Guest:I mean, we did his show, that was probably two years, three years ago or something now.
Guest:Did that.
Guest:Was a fan already.
Guest:You know, big thing for us.
Guest:Like, oh, this is crazy.
Guest:Had a nice time with him then.
Guest:He did a little thing with us at Coachella last time we played.
Marc:Oh, right.
Marc:I was just told someone who saw it that he played a theremin with a dildo.
Marc:Yeah, big, nice, long dildo.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How did it sound?
Marc:Good?
Marc:I think maybe.
Marc:Yeah, I'm not sure.
Marc:Did you ever play with him, though?
Marc:He's a bass player, I believe.
Marc:He is?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I didn't know that.
Marc:Like, if I'm not mistaken, because I've talked to him, I think he's like Berkeley-educated bass player.
Marc:Like, he's high level.
Marc:I see.
Marc:I had no clue.
Marc:And he bailed on it, because he couldn't be as good as...
Guest:something like that yeah there you go well that's cool yeah now you know that now you're gonna have to kind of corner him to play yeah yeah because like it sounds like that your bass guy kind of bounces around a lot yeah my well you know i got a now i've got a real hot player kid that i grew up with from my hometown john yeah he's one of those yeah oh yeah oh really oh he's great he's great i got some some heavy hitters playing with me right now but i've had a bunch of bass players in the past so
Marc:So you're there, you're taking guitar lessons, you're learning ACDC riffs.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:You're playing in, like, rock bands?
Guest:I played in a bunch of bands as a teenager.
Guest:Mostly, you know, jokey stuff.
Guest:Maybe a couple bands were really- Jokey stuff.
Guest:You know, just, you know, when you're a kid and you're writing songs, especially where I'm from where it's a hockey town.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's, like, very homophobic and a lot of testosterone and big muscles and tight-head hardy shirts.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You're scared.
Marc:You're up against it.
Marc:Even if you're not gay, even if you're just fragile.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:A sensitive kid going the other way.
Guest:So I was scared and wrote some stuff like just having a laugh.
Guest:And then eventually, by the time I was 17 or 18, started making my own little records in the bedroom.
Marc:Were you playing up against those dudes?
Marc:Were you playing gigs where the hockey dudes would come?
Marc:Was it sort of a Nirvana thing where you're crafting songs that they didn't know were calling them stupid?
Guest:I don't even think they were, really.
Guest:That was kind of the school that I went to.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:it's kind of like a blanket mentality over because we have like a lot of oil so there's a lot of like dummies that like to work for the oil don't really you know think about trucks yeah yeah yeah it's weird it's like texas up there yeah yeah yeah but yeah i guess cold texas so like even crazier yeah yeah i i don't mean to call him stupid it's just a different way of life you know you can call him that i don't mind different priorities yeah yeah straight up you know what i mean oh destroying the planet
Guest:whatever we're gonna get a new hockey arena downtown next year it's great yeah i mean morons exactly it'll be good if we all die at the same time then no one misses anything fuck yeah so you start playing bands and you start recording now what like what's your old man do where is he musical too he is i think in some respect um plays guitar kind of he's a bit of a you know like uh
Guest:See, I didn't grow up with him, so I don't really know him very well.
Guest:Ah.
Guest:So he's out of the pick.
Guest:But, you know, when he would come around, he'd be like, hey, boy, I got your new harmonica.
Guest:Let's jam on the acoustic.
Guest:I'd be like, okay, you know.
Guest:But from a definitely more of, like, pass the whiskey bottle around the fireplace, play some Neil Young songs as opposed to, like, you know, my grandma, you know, this conservatory stuff.
Guest:My grandfather was a great sax player as well.
Guest:Which grandfather?
Guest:Your dad's dad?
Guest:No, my mom's dad.
Marc:DeMarco.
Guest:Yeah, DeMarco.
Guest:He had a funny story about him, actually.
Guest:I never met him, like I was saying.
Guest:But he had half his arm amputated because he got cancer.
Guest:It was 30 years ago, so they were like, okay, let's get rid of that.
Guest:So he lost half his arm.
Guest:Sex player, you need both your arms.
Marc:Yeah, kind of, yeah.
Guest:So what the University of Alberta ended up doing was they built this...
Guest:socket that goes up on his arm, on his nub.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Connected to this, you know, all these solenoids on this box and then the box is connected to some, you know, switches on the keys that he was missing with that left arm.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:So he was banging his nub around this box and he was still, you know, they brought the shred back.
Guest:It's like...
Guest:kind of beautiful it was a crazy video on youtube of him you know there is a video of him on youtube oh that's great yeah what's his name hank demarco yeah and he's that must look wild it's insane yeah he's stoked in it too i've never met the guy but you just see him and he's like i'm playing again oh my god this is so sick did he die before you were conscious uh he died before i was born yeah but they have the video do you do it on television
Guest:Yeah, he did, I think it was for some kind of like science show or something.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Amazing discoveries, you know.
Guest:When did your dad split?
Guest:Probably when I was five or something like that.
Guest:And he went to another city?
Guest:No, he was around.
Guest:It was kind of like he was the holiday parent, you know, it's like, see you, see you then, see you then.
Guest:And his, you know, I was sort of involved with his family in some way, you know, like the grandparents were kind of like,
Guest:yeah that's my mom agnes yeah yeah go go do your bit here we'll you know we'll pick the kids up and buy them something yeah so but they were very sweet people but you got brothers sisters i have one little brother and then i have a half sister who was around for a while when i was a kid she ended up moving to uh she's lived a couple different places she lives in the mountains in bc now though so
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:That's your dad's kid?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:She's chill.
Guest:I'm close with her.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Did that all evolve over time, or were you always close?
Guest:It was always, I think she was kind of like, you know, because she was a little bit older to deal with some of the madness of, because he'd bounce on her, too, so it was kind of like, okay, kids, like, yeah, this time.
Marc:She was very sweet.
Marc:The reason I guess I'm talking about your dad is because on this, the one song on the record, the new record, which is called This Old Dog.
Mm-hmm.
Marc:That first song is some sort of strange recognition of, you know, it seems to be about your dad.
Marc:Oh, totally, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I think a lot of people have come at it kind of like in a way where... Because there is that trope of like, ah, you look... It's happening.
Guest:I'm becoming...
Guest:And it can be taken in a more, you know, lighthearted way or something like that.
Guest:But for me, you know, and that's the part that the beauty of the pop song part where not everybody knows my history, maybe some of my friends and people, but it's like, but for me, it's like, you know, I'm talking more about like, you know, the most of my like, uh,
Guest:Bad shit.
Guest:Yeah, the badder shit.
Guest:I don't want to see that.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:But people can take it in a soft way, too.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:But I think that was one of the reasons that the music sort of appealed to me is that there was something more to it.
Marc:Even the becoming your dad thing, because I have the same issue where it's very hard to separate...
Marc:Like, okay, I liked it.
Marc:There's got to be some good things about this dude.
Marc:And, like, you obviously have embraced those, the musical taste, the fact that, you know, he was this kind of free-spirited, you know, though irresponsible dude.
Marc:But there are good things about them.
Marc:And you're like, I can embrace that.
Marc:But what do I do with this other shit?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's like it's, you know, just understand.
Marc:It's a confusing thing, you know.
Marc:It is.
Marc:I don't, you know.
Marc:And then it becomes like, is it inevitable?
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Who knows?
Marc:Perhaps.
Marc:Maybe.
Marc:Well, I'm twice as old as you almost.
Marc:It's not inevitable.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Because what I find is that if the old man is either emotionally absent or physically absent...
Marc:there's this like need to to sort of overcompensate and look for some sort of guidance in your brain yeah but like if it feels to me that underneath those things like becoming your dad on either side there's still an authentic you in there yeah totally right yeah so that that's the thing that he fucked you know like they somehow or another neglected so we neglect it and then like you know to let that thing out
Marc:you know, in the mire of that other shit, of the old man shit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Tricky, man.
Marc:Yeah, it's tricky.
Marc:Well, no, it sounds like, you know, you got a couple more albums there.
Guest:I mean, as well as being about my pops, it is just kind of, I think a lot of this record is, because I tour a lot, you know, even though I'm pretty young, we've been on tour for like five years straight or something like that.
Guest:yeah you don't get a lot of time to have a life yeah and even to even to think about your own life regardless of where you're at right so you know luckily i have these periods where i can think about it and then put it on display for the entire world which is fine i'm fine with it but it's interesting from yeah it's a weird path to take i suppose but yeah you live a lot you have to live a lot in your head yeah yeah in terms of creatively yeah because like what are you going to write about the bus yeah i don't yeah i don't think so
Marc:About the other dudes.
Marc:Denver last weekend.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:I don't know about that.
Marc:Time for country.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Well, where did you start to... Because it seems like just even from the first record, you gravitated towards... Were you thinking in terms of making hits?
Marc:Because it dawned on me...
Marc:And I don't know if this is bad or good, but it just dawned on me this morning, you know, because I was listening and trying to get caught up.
Marc:There's not a lot of information about you because you're a child.
Marc:No, you're young, you know, but but like because like I see John Mayer out and about, you know, trying to establish himself as a monster guitar player after he did those three or four, you know.
Guest:Yeah, right?
Marc:It's a hit.
Marc:What can you do?
Marc:But that's what I'm saying, right?
Marc:But like he's got to claw back from that.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:In a way.
Marc:You know, it's sort of like, I don't know if we're all going to accept you as Stevie Ray Vaughan.
Marc:I was confused.
Guest:I never, you know, when I was a real guitar player kid, I saw him on, what is that, like G3 or whatever, like the Eric Clapton Festival?
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:Or like Crossroads or something.
Guest:I was like, John Mayer?
Guest:I had no idea.
Guest:He can shred, you know, but it's confusing, you know, it's like...
Marc:What?
Marc:It's confusing, but there's also that issue of, like, make bank, which is not easy to do.
Marc:You've got to be pretty talented to make a hit song.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then, like, you know, after you don't have to worry about money ever again, you're going to be like, now I'm going to go play with the guys and do the real shit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And some of us guys are sort of like, nah, I don't know.
Guest:I think that's what it boils, you know.
Guest:it's the it's the realness thing you know where it's say for example with john mayer yeah you know i don't i don't i don't really know that much about his music i know right shred on the blues guitar i know he's written these songs but you know i mean maybe he felt real doing it maybe he didn't i don't you know it was too you know far out of the scope for me to ever really pay attention to anyway but but i think it is a funny thing especially where i'm at with this record where it's number three and it's kind of like it's not like there's real pressures or anything but it's like
Guest:you know a lot of bands number three it's like bigger bigger sound yeah top top 40 appeal like let's do this you know yeah regardless of you know if i went some kind of you know guitar-y you know way like that john mayor style or like went some like synthesizer sexy you know
Guest:And instead of, you know, there were moments writing it too where I caught myself and it's kind of like, do I, you know, trying like, okay, I could, you know, write this big, you know, and it's just like, this is silly, you know, it's silly.
Guest:Don't do it, right?
Guest:I feel ridiculous.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, I feel like a jackass trying to do this and...
Guest:And then I decided, okay, I'm just going to write some songs that can be what they got to be.
Guest:If there's not any up-tempo ones, I don't really give a shit, whatever.
Guest:But it's a big thing I think about a lot.
Guest:It's like the realness, real recognize, real.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Keeping true, keeping sane.
Marc:So you had that moment where you're like, oh, I could turn this.
Marc:I could make this a hit song in a way.
Marc:You felt that.
Guest:I mean, I think I had the concept and maybe like that, there is that...
Guest:It's like, oh, it'd be great.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But then I don't think I even have the capacity.
Guest:I don't think I could make a big effort green or big, sexy, huge festival stadiums.
Guest:I couldn't do that.
Guest:I don't think that most people listening aren't going to even think that either, but it's just like, I've seen a lot of my contemporary people that I see at festivals and stuff trying to...
Guest:Jack it up get the bigger for me.
Guest:It's like I appreciate more people, you know, like Jonathan Richmond for example.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:I love that guy.
Guest:I love him.
Guest:You know, he's kind of like my he's your guy I love this man, but it's like do you work with him ever he's played with us like when we did the Greek theater he played with us there and I've seen him play probably like 20 times since I was a kid but uh But yeah, but what he's done is like, you know
Guest:Regardless, he's always going to be this rock god, legend, roadrunner.
Guest:He's in the Modern Lovers.
Guest:A lot of great albums.
Guest:But as time has progressed, he's just tried to reel as much back as he can and just keep it.
Guest:Because the whole thing with him is it's like...
Guest:The important thing is he's on the stage.
Guest:Here's the crowd.
Guest:There's an immediate connection.
Guest:I'm hip.
Guest:Yeah, and it's like... That's all of it.
Guest:Exactly, and it works great.
Guest:And not to say that he's not trying anything new, but it's like he just has these things set up, and he knows what he's doing.
Guest:He knows who he is, and it's just like a fucking beautiful thing.
Guest:It's really cool.
Marc:Well, I relate to that because there is something about...
Marc:gunning for authenticity over uh you know like uh well it's show it's not showmanship but but it's really the opposite because i deal with this in comedy when you know there are guys who put on an act and then there are guys who are who they are yeah and they they can't really escape it there there are people that create a persona either consciously or not and that persona does a show
Marc:And then they leave and they may be assholes.
Marc:They may be quiet.
Marc:They may be socially crippled.
Marc:But on stage, that's the thing.
Marc:And then they go away.
Marc:All I've been trying to do is make everything about the same level.
Marc:So when I show up there, not that much different than talking to you.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:It helps to keep you sane.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, it keeps you sane and also keeps you honest with yourself if that's what you want.
Guest:And it's just, yeah, for me especially too, it's like, you know, I mean, it's funny now with the internet and the way people hone in on things and the way that things are presented, but on a level where it is like human to human at the show, going up on stage, obviously there's like some lights and stuff.
Guest:You're like, all right, let's have a good time.
Guest:But for the most part...
Guest:I think it's important just to be, like, do you.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And just to... That's the hardest thing.
Guest:Yeah, I guess.
Guest:Maybe for some people, I suppose, yeah.
Guest:But, I mean, that can be hard for me, too, I guess.
Guest:But I think... You're just keeping it... Yeah, no, I know what you mean.
Marc:Because, like, you have those moments, like you said, when you're writing this record, where you can see an avenue...
Marc:to where you know you could get away with something yeah creatively that isn't really you yeah but would work oh yeah and maybe even stick a little harder than just being you could be and then then you got to live with that yeah that's what you got to keep in mind right right because there's nothing more satisfying than doing a show and like something either something happens
Marc:that you didn't anticipate that was uniquely organic to that evening that you know will never happen again.
Marc:That's the best thing that can happen to me is like a moment on stage and I'm like, I did an hour and a half, but that, you know, when I said that one thing, that was the whole show.
Guest:Do you ever have that shit?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, our shows are very...
Guest:We barely even practice as a band, so it's kind of like that's the whole show, essentially.
Guest:And we play a lot of the same songs.
Guest:But it is, like I was saying with Jonathan, I like to involve the kids.
Guest:I like to keep the venues as small as we can.
Guest:How do you involve them?
Guest:Just, you know...
Guest:Hey, let's have a t-shirt.
Guest:What's up, man?
Guest:You want to come up here?
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Just whatever, you know?
Marc:When was the first time you saw Richmond?
Marc:Because I was sort of mildly obsessed with him for a while.
Marc:Because what you're saying, I think, about his sort of consistency of self...
Marc:Some people think it's sort of like, I don't know what happened to that guy.
Marc:Like, he never did this, or he never did that, or he doesn't... You know what I mean?
Marc:He stayed where he was, but... I don't know, though.
Guest:I mean, he's... Because his career spans... I mean, I understand, but you and me probably would say the...
Guest:The alternate, right?
Marc:No, exactly.
Marc:No, because he won't do this show from what I understand.
Marc:I've wanted to talk to him.
Marc:Yeah, I don't think he does.
Marc:He keeps things pretty simple and pretty close.
Guest:Yeah, well, I mean, similar to not wanting... I don't think he does...
Guest:That much media or press stuff.
Guest:He doesn't really like to fly.
Guest:He won't have air conditioners in the venue.
Guest:No monitors on the stage.
Guest:He mixes him and Tommy from the stage.
Guest:I had these people.
Guest:The people that deal with us in Brazil also take care of Jonathan.
Guest:in brazil yeah yeah and there's this guy bruno that is a good friend of ours and a friend of jonathan's but regardless of how far the venue is away from the hotel jonathan needs to walk there right have his guitar his little book he's writing stuff down but you know if it's like 20 miles away it's like okay let's just come pick me up at the hotel five in the morning right we'll get there for sound check but it's just you know he's got us a lot and drives and like a little sedan a lot of it's just like
Marc:you know he's doing him he's happy right he's uh he's a little eccentric but true to himself i am yeah that's the deal yeah also you know you start spending money on baloney especially when you're touring a lot you're not going to make any money right so he's got that down too so what were your influences though because your guitar playing is pretty astounding what was it that turned like who was your guys like outside of angus where you kind of got this kind of lyrical sweet style of guitar playing like what were you listening to um compelled you
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I mean, I guess Jerry Garcia guy.
Guest:I loved it.
Guest:Well, that was more recent.
Guest:Well, I mean, I guess before I started doing like the Mac DeMarco records.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Other CDs and stuff that I put out and I was going, you know, it was a more of like a bigger.
Guest:What are those bands names?
Guest:That band was called make out video.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:I heard about that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which, which was just me on one guitar.
Guest:So I had to fill it out and it was,
Guest:kind of more it was like kind of like keith richards yeah like open tuning oh yeah trying to fill it up but if you have it open then you can kind of do some melodic stuff as well as keep the chords going so are those available those cds those records they're all in band camp if you look it up oh they are okay i gotta check that out and then uh but as soon as i did the i think when i did that two record that you were talking about yeah
Guest:i'd been listening a lot to uh and not not records that i discovered at the time but just for some reason i think you know as i've gotten older it's like my ear for especially production stuff uh-huh and you know you pick certain things out but yeah i was listening to you know a lot of the band so like robbie robertson's playing or even neil young's playing yeah that kind of stuff um and also just a lot of classic rock radio yeah i was kind of afraid of guitar solos for many years like oh it's too cheesy i don't want to touch it
Guest:oh really but then you listen to you know you work I was working in a grocery store and it was on the you know Shome is the classic rock station yeah all night every night it's kind of like yeah this is this is dope sure man yeah like after that second verse lay it out yeah just shed shed for a little bit you know so I kind of it was kind of comical for me at first but uh but I had but then yeah around the time I did the last EP before this record uh it's called another one I have that one that's good too got really into Jerry's playing though
Marc:The cover of that Rock and Roll Nightclub thing, you know, and the lipstick and stuff, was there, do you do, because, like, it's weird.
Marc:There's, like, you know, there's the cover of two, which is just, like, you and your beat-up cool guitar.
Marc:And then the Rock and Roll Nightclub seems like you're, like, when I looked at that record versus the one with the fishing, like, where you're sitting there by a lake.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Or whatever.
Marc:I don't know what's going to be on the cover of this one.
Marc:But that seemed like when I saw that, I'm like, what is this guy up to?
Marc:What is there a theme here?
Marc:Am I like, is this a different, like maybe I'm reading too much into it because I didn't know much about you.
Marc:And then your Twitter feed, wasn't your Twitter feed pretty raunchy?
Marc:All over the place.
Marc:right so i'm trying to get this was years ago when i first got the record i'm like let me get a sense of this guy because the music's so sweet and i go on your twitter feed i'm like but this guy's a fucking animal what's happening who do i can't i can't pull them together in my head you got to confuse the internet people only stick around for a couple minutes if you don't confuse them make them double take then they're gone you know it's like this guy's writing like you know uh sweet jazzy music and he's like this it's animal just a
Guest:little dirty animal turd yeah no but with the with the uh with rock roll nightclub like yours i mean it is kind of compared you know i had the the stuff i did before that yeah then rock roll nightclub was like the first mac demarco whatever okay so you know so all the stuff was just me recording everything but it's like
Guest:that was my name or whatever yeah but it was like a lot of those songs on there like uh you know i slowed everything down tried to sing like elvis it's just like ridiculous and then it had almost like a zappa vibe with the the recurring comedy bits right was that the one with the radio channel the dj stuff like that yeah yeah yeah yeah so it's you know it was just a i made that just out of complete i wasn't really doing my old band anymore living in montreal didn't have a lot going on not the make out video you mean
Guest:yeah i kind of hadn't done anything with that for a while um made those songs by i was trying to write ramon songs like real fast power poppy okay sure yeah and i suck at it like i found out but if i turned it all slowed it way down on the tape machine then i was like oh what's this you know so uh you know and then sang like really low and just wrote like really you know i'm writing about like leather boots and like motor cycles and stuff like stuff i don't have any idea about but i
Guest:you know attach with rock and roll for some reason so and some of your heroes were that yeah yeah you know sure so it's like and then you know lucky luckily for me that's the one or funnily enough too that's the one that the labels were like oh okay you know so my record label's like we're signing you up i'm like okay yeah what label is that uh capture tracks out of new york all these jazz progressions and things
Guest:all these sweet this sweet music like who's in your audience what kind of what kind of kids are you attracting they they get younger and younger now but uh i don't know i mean i get all it's funny especially you're talking about the jerry garcia stuff as soon as i put like in the gatefold of salad days there's a like the dead uh logo flag and oh yeah and you know it's in my room as soon as that was in the album art it was just like we play you know smaller town or something there'd be a dude like
Guest:hey man saw that uh saw that flag like you like the dead i'm like you know just but they just they'd wait for all the younger fans to leave and then be like right let's talk yeah yeah but uh it's it's interesting i mean my my crowd is kind of i mean i get like a lot of people you know all shapes and sizes and any you know age or whatever but
Guest:but not metal heads um no probably not metal heads no but uh and not do you have uh the the sort of like uh jock element some sometimes like the frat boy yeah you know the frat which is kind of terrifying because it's like i didn't want to play for you guys you know power to anybody though anybody can listen i'm not trying to be exclusive or anything
Marc:Well, maybe you find something in them.
Marc:Maybe that's a good indication.
Marc:Maybe you've provoked, you've shaken something loose.
Marc:Maybe, hopefully.
Marc:Make that guy a sweet guy.
Marc:They're not all bad.
Marc:They're just doing what they think they ought to do to fit in.
Marc:They're just confused.
Guest:We're all trying to fit in.
Guest:But lately, it's been the fans.
Guest:In my experience of going to shows and being younger, I really appreciated it when bands, even in my hometown or Vancouver or Montreal, would do all ages shows.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:and, you know, keep it, you know, kind of like Ian McKay, Minor Threat, whatever.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:So it's important to me to do all-ages shows, and, you know, the younger fans are definitely the craziest, but we, yeah, we do it, but we just keep getting... You do all-ages shows.
Guest:A lot, yeah, a lot.
Guest:But the kids are, yeah, they're nuts.
Guest:We have, like, a lot of times we'll be playing, and the whole first three rows are, like, 15-year-old kids, and I'm like, this is...
Guest:oh really it's great you know but they're just like you can feel that there's they're not fully formed no no no you know and i like to crowd surf with the shows and like when you have people that young that haven't been to a show with crowd surfing before especially not the lightest guy yeah more than compared to even a couple years ago i'm like crushing these little kids yeah yeah i feel bad but i think they like it i don't know but sure sure it's part of it it's part of the uh yeah yeah i hurt my hand yeah
Marc:So you're touring with a full band now?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's changed a little bit.
Guest:We've kind of had a similar setup for the last... Since two came out, I guess, so years ago, five or six years ago.
Guest:A couple guys have left, but it's still, yeah, we've got a guy named John on the bass, my friend Joe on the drums, my friend Andy on lead guitar.
Guest:I do a couple things here and there, and then we just added my old friend that grew up in my...
Guest:block in Edmonton.
Marc:The bass player?
Guest:No, he's the new keyboardist.
Marc:So you're keeping the local guys going.
Marc:You gotta keep it local.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you got, so is your folk still in Edmonton?
Guest:My mom is, yeah.
Guest:She's still in the house I grew up in.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:She kind of bounces.
Guest:She was down here for a little while and kind of all over the place.
Guest:And the old hippie?
Guest:Old hippie's out there somewhere, yeah.
Guest:Gives me a call every once in a while.
Guest:Hey, I heard your song about me, kid.
Guest:I'm like, hey, man, how you doing?
Guest:Did he say that?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And what do you think?
Guest:I was like, wait till you hear the rest, buddy.
Guest:Is that the one that's getting airplay?
Guest:I think that's, yeah, it's that one and the dog song.
Guest:Those are the two that are out right now.
Guest:So where are you touring now?
Guest:What's the plan?
Guest:In May, it like starts for the whole year.
Guest:So it'll be Europe.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Europe here, Europe here, then like...
Guest:Asia, Australia.
Guest:How's Europe for you?
Guest:I love it.
Guest:Yeah, I think it's great.
Guest:But do they like you?
Guest:Most places.
Guest:I think, you know, guitar music does a little bit stranger in, say, places, you know, countries like Germany.
Guest:Like, I liked your clothing, but your music, no, it's not for me.
Guest:It's like, why did you come?
Guest:Where do you get the best draw?
Guest:the uk probably is like i think it's one of the crazy between i mean southern california is crazy for us new york can be crazy but the kids in southern cal they're like big community of young kid they like burger records and stuff like that they're like really into it so that's good and then the uk is like you know between that and maybe buenos aires is like really crazy for us and then
Guest:Really?
Guest:How does that happen?
Guest:Is it airplay or what?
Guest:I don't really know.
Guest:But, you know, I always think of that story, you know, like the story of the Ramones.
Guest:They're playing like at CBGB's in New York.
Guest:Then they go down there, they're playing like a fucking arena.
Guest:Which, I mean, we're not playing anything that big, but it's like, you know, the shows are like at least as big as we do in New York or L.A.
Guest:or even bigger.
Guest:And the kids down there, it's like the one night of the year where you get to feel like the Beatles, they're like, ah!
Guest:It's like, oh my God.
Guest:There's people waiting outside the hotel all night.
Guest:It's like, this is.
Guest:That's wild.
Guest:You're really weird, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's exciting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But the UK.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The kids in the UK.
Guest:Solid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're great.
Guest:And you played with the Japandroids?
Guest:Long time ago.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I like those guys.
Guest:Nice guys.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Canadian guys.
Marc:Good band.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They were on my first record label.
Guest:when i was 19 or 20 so yeah first tour i ever went on they were kind of like they rock pretty hard yeah they rock hard yeah yeah now outside of richmond have you gotten to play with any of your other heroes or met them um we i mean we do a lot of festivals nowadays so we've got to see a lot of people um say like you know we saw neil young and uh at russ gilda festival this year that was amazing did you meet him
Guest:tried oh yeah met the sound guy's son he gave me the backstage pass and we tried to go up to the stage and they were like no no no but it was great he played keep on rocking for like i think 40 minutes sure just and he was rocking oh hell yeah dude yeah yeah doing those solos yeah that was amazing um who've i you know i did meet one of my heroes recently went for lunch with michael mcdonald the singer yeah that was incredible um
Guest:Long, strange story of how we got hooked up.
Guest:He's on Thundercat's new record.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because he's kind of your classic collaborator guy.
Guest:And he always has been.
Guest:Doobie Brothers.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I think he's been checking out some newer contemporary stuff.
Guest:And the stuff he did with Thundercat is insane.
Guest:Him and Kenny, too.
Marc:It's like... Yeah, it's insane.
Guest:That record's insane.
Guest:It's amazing.
Marc:I just got it.
Marc:I listened to it yesterday.
Marc:It's really good.
Marc:Michael McDonald.
Marc:See, that area of music...
Marc:For me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, he's one of your guys.
Marc:Like, you know, you like that guy.
Marc:I love it.
Marc:Yeah, I love it.
Marc:Do you like the Doobie Brothers?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:See, like, I grew up with that shit.
Marc:You know, like, when I was in seventh grade, like, Blackwater was a huge hit.
Marc:You remember that song?
Marc:Oh, Blackwater, keep on rolling.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Mississippi.
Marc:He's like a big Doobie.
Marc:Is that pre-Michael, though?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But, I mean, they were around.
Marc:China Grove.
Marc:Yeah, totally.
Guest:A lot of my friends, you know, or I have this one friend, his dad is always like, Michael McDonald ruined the Doobie Brothers.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And they were with Skunk Baxter a little bit too.
Marc:But yeah, Michael McDonald came in and made those, what was his big Doobie Brothers hit?
Guest:With Fool Beliefs.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:With Fool Beliefs.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Minute by minute.
Guest:Amazing.
Guest:It's so funny, man.
Guest:I love it.
Guest:You love it?
Guest:I love it.
Guest:I love it.
Guest:That's where it comes from.
Guest:Yeah, I love, you know, that kind of, it's a newer thing for me.
Guest:Well, not new, but like, say like Steely Dan.
Guest:I love Steely Dan.
Marc:Of course.
Guest:I love stuff like that, you know.
Guest:But there is, you know.
Marc:You might just be my bridge.
Yeah.
Guest:because because like i you know because i can i find your music enjoyable and palatable right but like i struggle with steely dan oh yeah a lot of people do and i understand and the way that i feel about it is say i listen to neil young yeah something or joni mitchell or the band or something and what i get from that is like uh is a real emotional response you know because
Guest:you can feel the personalities in between them there's something there and with some of Michael's stuff but Steely Dan in particular almost like very rarely do I get any kind of emotional response exactly it's just like you know New York you know guys just being like yeah we're like making these jokes that nobody understands and it's kind of like production math well exactly but that's the you know there is for me it's more about just listening like oh my god like oh listen to that Steve Gad feel like a
Guest:It's almost like porn or something.
Guest:So there it is.
Guest:You just kind of got to let it be what it is.
Marc:But see, that's exactly the trip, man, because it is almost antithetical to what we were talking about at the beginning.
Marc:Oh, totally.
Marc:That raw authenticity that people like Joni or Neil or the band, when they're together, they can't avoid it.
Marc:I mean, it's what makes them amazing, outside of being amazing musicians, but there's a lot of room for messiness.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Where is Steely, though?
Marc:No, fuck no.
Marc:And not with the Doobie Brothers either.
Guest:Uh-uh, uh-uh, yeah.
Marc:It's like, it's almost, it exists in this weird chamber that is like, not devoid of rawness, but kinda.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Just, you know, session musicians, just...
Guest:completely and you get off on like that precision of sound sometimes you know it's almost like if i found it comical in a way yeah it's like some because some of that steely dan stuff is so whether it's the lyrics or the playing right sound so ridiculous right and it's like and to have something like that become a you know it's like pop fusion jazz you know i love steely i really they got nothing bad to say about them but it is hilarious a lot of the time hilarious music
Marc:But the thing is, it's like it's ear candy to some people.
Marc:It's almost like, you know, the sort of compression of it and the production of it.
Marc:That's what really turns people is that that precision of sound is like they just it's like crack to them.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they're real passionate about it.
Marc:And like, I don't dismiss them as being mediocre or shitty.
Marc:It's just really like either you like it or you don't.
Guest:Well, yeah, it's you know, it's I think, you know, a lot of especially people that are like looking for.
Guest:It's people that like the highest quality in things.
Marc:Right, and they don't want to be anxious.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They don't want to be challenged necessarily.
Marc:It's very... Well, it was great talking to you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And now you're going to show me that scale.
Marc:Yeah, I can show it to you.
Marc:No problem.
Marc:Thanks, buddy.
Marc:Yeah, God bless.
Marc:back to marco i think we we found that we found some of the keys to what what makes his sound sound like it does and it's still unusual that i like him so much that's not that's not passive aggressive i'm just uh i i'm baffled but i like him and his records are great mark lanagan man
Marc:Mark Lanigan.
Marc:Heavy man.
Marc:Deep.
Marc:Lanigan.
Marc:What a great singer.
Marc:As a solo artist and with the Screaming Trees.
Marc:Do you remember those first two Screaming Trees records?
Marc:I think they were actually the first two I heard.
Marc:They were probably like the fourth and fifth Screaming Trees record.
Marc:But...
Marc:Big voice, and I loved his first solo record, but he's done a lot of stuff, and I was excited to meet him and hang out with him in the garage.
Marc:So his new album from the Mark Lanigan band is called Gargoyle.
Marc:It comes out tomorrow, April 28th, and this is me and Mark Lanigan having a conversation.
Marc:.
Marc:the copenhagen thing so you grew up with it so you're one of those guys could just take a pinch and put right in there well eventually i mean the first time i did it i got really sick well that's but that's the thing that gets you it's funny with copenhagen and heroin never never a great experience first time out but for some reason the guys that commit they'll ride that out
Guest:Yeah, well, I should have gotten sick the first time I did heroin, but that didn't happen, so I did it many, many more times before it started working against me.
Marc:Well, so that worked out too well the first time.
Marc:Indeed.
Marc:But you're still alive.
Marc:Somehow, against all odds.
Marc:But, I mean, in order to dip as a kid, you've got to live a certain life.
Marc:I mean, where did that start?
Marc:Where did you grow up?
Guest:I grew up in a small town in central Washington, which is like mainly farming, ranching.
Guest:Near Spokane or no?
Guest:Right between Spokane and Seattle, right in the exact center of the state.
Marc:So like Washington, it always strikes me as beautiful, but there's a sort of creepiness at the core somewhere.
Yeah.
Guest:Well, I once read that most serial killings happen in Washington and Florida in the corners of the country.
Marc:Yeah, people hit the edge, literally.
Marc:And they're like, I guess I got to go back in and do some bad work.
Marc:I've gone as far as I can go geographically within the confines of this country.
Marc:Now I got to go make my mark.
Guest:yeah i mean ted bundy did damage in both states he actually killed somebody in my hometown really i remember when i was a little kid at uh pizza hut yeah there was a flyer on the wall for a missing girl she turned out to be one of his victims oh you remember that from that was one of those things yeah that first time you see something like that as a kid it kind of burns its way in there
Guest:Yeah, I mean, apparently something else burned its way into Ted Bundy himself.
Guest:Yeah, that's for sure.
Guest:Did you grow up on a farm?
Guest:No, but I grew up in the country.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And what'd you do out there?
Guest:Just... Wish that I was somewhere else.
Guest:The whole time?
Guest:Pretty much, yeah.
Guest:Big family?
Guest:No, small.
Guest:Just me and my mom and dad and my sister.
Guest:That was it?
Guest:Was he a farmer?
Guest:No.
Guest:They were school teachers.
Guest:Oh, that's noble?
Guest:I guess.
Yeah.
Marc:Is the memories too polluted by other things?
Marc:Yeah, man.
Marc:It's too raw.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Bad times.
Marc:That's what started you rolling, I guess.
Guest:I guess so, yeah.
Guest:I was the black sheep of the small family.
Marc:When did you start doing music?
Guest:I used to collect comic books as a kid, and there was a comic book store in my town.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Thank God for those, right?
Guest:Yeah, actually, that saved me because I saw a picture of...
Guest:Iggy Pop on the front of a magazine that he was giving away.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because he couldn't sell it.
Marc:No one wanted it.
Guest:I think it was one of those where he cut off half the cover.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:They used to do in the 70s.
Marc:Oh, when they... It was one of those... That means that they didn't sell them.
Marc:They were going to send them back.
Marc:I guess so, yeah.
Marc:I think it's what they... They'd get credit...
Marc:How did that work?
Marc:They'd cut off the title of the magazine and send those back for something.
Marc:I don't know, whatever.
Marc:So it was half cover of Iggy.
Guest:Yeah, and I thought, you know, what's this?
Guest:Who's that guy?
Guest:And I asked the kind of older hippie that ran the shop.
Guest:thank god for those guys yeah yeah naturally yeah um you know who's this and he said oh you know i have some some 45s and uh played me i want to say it was tight pants or something and i was that's what got me hooked within like a couple of days i'd traded in all my comic books for credit on records so i listened to you know
Guest:the original like uh sex pistol singles i had those and the damn stranglers from the from that same shop yeah from that same shop man and then as i got a little older i started to take the greyhound bus to seattle and walk around to different record stores and
Guest:But I literally didn't know anybody in Ellensburg to listen to that same kind of music for years.
Marc:So we're like the same age.
Marc:So that was a give or take a year.
Marc:So that was like that time where you really, those were, those were the only places you could get it.
Marc:You needed that one record store or you needed this weird community of friends that would send you shit from other places or else you were just locked in mainstream fucking townie music, which isn't bad.
Marc:You know, there's a lot of good rock and roll around.
Guest:well you know in ellensburg literally nobody even knew who jimmy hendrix was that i knew really yeah it was all the local radio was i want to say uh country music uh-huh but you know 70s style so that was terrible right but yeah the rock thing was really it was a wasteland
Guest:and we're talking like what you know early 70s mid 70s mid to late 70s and that was uh you're like uh there's a different world out there where's that world yeah so um you know i just listened to that stuff in solitude for several years and then eventually met some guys uh who were younger than me that in ellensburg yeah that were into that same kind of music and they ended up being the guys i was in my first band with which band screaming trees so those guys were all
Guest:So you knew them growing up?
Guest:I actually knew who they were.
Marc:The Connor brothers.
Guest:Yeah, because it's such a small town.
Guest:One of my earliest memories, when I still lived in the town, walking to, I want to say like first grade or something, seeing this kid sitting in a waiting pool in this front yard, and he smiled at me, and that was man Connor.
Guest:I knew who he was my entire life, but didn't really know him until I was 18.
Marc:That's kind of weird about, like, smaller cities or smaller towns.
Marc:It's like there is just a little bit of distance, but you've seen them around, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And these guys were really, I mean, physically imposing.
Guest:Big guys.
Guest:Really big guys, you know, outside the norm.
Marc:Were they twins?
Guest:No.
Marc:Do people ask that a lot?
No.
Marc:Yeah, they used to.
Marc:I just remember that first screaming shirt.
Marc:Well, not the first one.
Marc:That was a surprising thing because like...
Marc:like i you know the one i heard was the one with the hits on it the one that became big and i fucking love that record but you know you guys were at it for a while yeah i mean we made i want to say four records in the 80s so yeah you know but we were making them like every eight months so all right so you meet those guys in your hometown and they and what'd you play did you play or were you just singing
Guest:i was a terrible drummer i just had like half of a drum kit that some guy had traded me for some weed but you you were drumming well they wanted me to but you know i was i was arguably a worse drummer than i was a singer and i was pretty bad singer for years really yeah it took me a while to learn how to do it what were you like initially who were you modeling yourself after
Guest:Well, initially I was singing songs that the guitar player for The Trees wrote, and he wrote them to suit his voice, and he had a much higher voice than me.
Guest:I was either singing really high or singing two octaves lower, which was easier, but also still completely not correct.
Guest:Not your sweet spot.
Guest:Not my sweet spot at all.
Guest:We weren't...
Guest:anywhere close to being savvy enough to like change keys on anything so right for years literally i just you know tried to find a way to sing stuff no one no one could just write down like well these are these three let's just drop them down or move them up or throw a capo on it's like we're stuck in these dude we didn't even know how to change the change the strings on a guitar really so is that true well yeah yeah how old were you guys
Guest:um i was 20 when we first started and a couple of the guys were 15 and then the older connor brother was i want to say 22 yeah yeah so did you where'd you play like whose garage
Guest:Well, we actually rehearsed in the back of a video store that the Connor family owned.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:There was a big room back there.
Guest:I worked for them in that shop for a while.
Guest:You were renting videos, selling videos?
Guest:Yeah, renting them out.
Guest:Did they have an X section?
Guest:They did, yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:That's always helpful.
Guest:It was, you know, the most popular section.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I would think up there in the middle of Washington.
Guest:Yeah, it wasn't.
Guest:I think it was probably the only place you could get.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:So you knew a little bit about the adults in the community.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Their tastes.
Marc:Secret keeper.
Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you're in the back of the store, you and the fellas hammering it out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, we actually started recording like a month after we first rehearsed because there happened to be a guy who lived in our hometown that was recording bands.
Guest:had a four track or an eight track it was an eight track yeah and we ended up making our first four records on that eight track like all in maybe three years time and who released them well the first one was released by the guy who recorded it sure and then we started making records for sst here in yeah california are they are they even still around
Guest:Well, I think, you know, he's still selling records, but out of a warehouse in Arizona, I think.
Marc:Because they were, that was a pretty important label in its day.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, you know, for us it was... Must have been like, holy shit.
Marc:Yeah, it was.
Guest:It was still like the most exciting thing that's happened to me in 30 years.
Guest:Getting that first SST deal?
Guest:Was getting a phone call from Greg at SST, which I didn't even believe it was him.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Who were they?
Marc:And you knew all the bands on there, I imagine.
Guest:Yeah, we were big Black Flag fans.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:We were Husker Du fans, Minutemen.
Guest:Minutemen.
Guest:Sonic Youth.
Guest:They were all on SST.
Guest:They were all on SST.
Guest:We were on there at the same time as Sonic Youth and Dinosaur.
Guest:Well, it was completely bizarre from where we were from to making records for them.
Guest:Well, what was that first trip down there like?
Yeah.
Guest:Well, we were playing record stores all the way down to California, and that was it.
Guest:And because there was a guy who worked at SST who was friends with the guy who produced our first record, he came out as a courtesy to see us play.
Guest:And that's really how we got hooked up with those guys.
Guest:He got excited when he saw us play live to like five people in a record store in Santa Monica.
Marc:Man, I bet you don't miss those gigs.
Guest:I still play those gigs, Mark.
Guest:Just not with the band by myself.
Marc:More than five.
Guest:I've played to nobody.
Guest:If there was a negative audience, I could have played to them.
Marc:Well, that's an interesting thing about you.
Marc:I guess interesting is a diplomatic word probably from your perspective, but...
Marc:I mean, you know, you're one of the great rock and roll singers, and you've done, like, you have an amazing catalog of work.
Marc:How does that happen, Mark?
Marc:Why are you playing to nobody in a record store?
Marc:I don't know how that happens, but it does occasionally.
Guest:Fucking music, right?
Yeah.
Guest:I've played at weddings.
Guest:I've played at a funeral.
Guest:I've played everything.
Marc:To honor somebody or as a paid gig?
Marc:To honor somebody, but both times, wedding and funeral.
Marc:Okay, but it wasn't like, man, things are bad.
Guest:I've got to get a wedding gig.
Guest:No, but if somebody offered me one, I would definitely take it.
Guest:Would you?
Guest:Depending on how low my bank account was at that point.
Marc:Well, Light in the Attic did that.
Marc:They did that beautiful box set, right?
Guest:Yeah, they did an anthology.
Guest:Sub Pop did a box set like a couple years ago of all my early records.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And do they sell all right?
Guest:Well, when Sub Pop released the box set, I finally recouped with them after like 17 years.
Guest:So I guess it sold something.
Marc:So you're even with Sub Pop?
Marc:I'm even with them now, yeah.
Marc:So what was going on?
Marc:So you signed an SST and you're 20, 21?
Marc:Who put out the big record that you guys did?
Marc:Epic.
Marc:So what was happening when you got there?
Marc:What year was that?
Guest:We actually signed in 1989 to Epic, which was sort of predated everybody else doing it.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, in fact, I remember...
Guest:that they were putting us on metal compilations and there really wasn't the you know sort of grunge genre yeah it's weird because it like in retrospect i don't know if it was a genre was it really no
Marc:it's just you know because you guys are rock bands i mean all you know like pearl jam is a rock band nirvana is a rock band with a few you know pop chords yeah i mean like like most things it was a media construct well what but was there a community
Guest:Well, it was a small city, so you knew everybody.
Guest:Musically, it seemed to us that everybody sort of had their own thing going.
Marc:So when you guys are doing that stuff, when that scene is happening, I mean, what's your relationship with... Because I know you worked a bit with some of Nirvana, right?
Guest:I did, yeah.
Guest:That's how I actually started making solo records was Kurt and I were friends.
Guest:And we decided to try and make an EP of Lead Belly covers, Lead Belly being someone that we both liked a lot.
Guest:We were sitting around listening to him one day and thought, hey, we should do a record of this stuff.
Guest:Why not?
Guest:And Sub Pop...
Guest:agreed to to put it out yeah and we booked some time in the studio and about an hour into the first day in the studio we kind of looked at each other and thought uh maybe this was like a half-baked idea you know so we uh we finished like one or two songs and and then just decided to shelve it
Guest:which ones which songs because they covered that one right that's sort of an off the beaten track one which one did they do in the pines yeah which is also the song that we did together which ended up being on my first solo record um that one and one other one i can't remember what it was called but that was the one that you know we were like hey this one's good and uh
Guest:After we told Sub Pop we weren't going to finish making this thing, they said to me, why don't you make a solo record?
Guest:And that was the catalyst for me learning how to... How to do it?
Guest:How to play guitar.
Guest:I remember that.
Marc:Oh yeah, that where you learned?
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah, it was because of that.
Marc:See, you're one of those guys, and I've talked to people before, where musicians, you can be a fan of a few of the records, but then when you sit down with them, you're like, oh, man, they got 90 out.
Marc:I'd miss that one record, like 20 records.
Guest:Yeah, man, I have way too many records.
Guest:No, but you keep working.
Guest:Well, no choice.
Guest:If you had a choice, would you stop?
Guest:If I won the lotto, I might just sit on the beach somewhere.
Marc:Ah, a lotto.
Marc:Yeah, the big dream.
Marc:Yeah, the lotto hope.
Marc:So, when you were in Seattle, when did the drugs start then?
Guest:Well, I was always partial to drugs when I lived in eastern Washington.
Marc:Yeah, what were you getting in eastern Washington?
Marc:Everything you could get.
Marc:Anywhere?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you were sort of there...
Marc:like that that tar shit preceded the meth shit right yeah and uh you know for me both both worked out yeah gotta be you gotta you gotta be up and you gotta be down yeah simultaneously part of my story
Marc:yeah did you find because i was trying to kind of tap into like as i listen to gargoyle and you know those i like i tend to like that like i like those last two cuts the uh first day of winter and old swan you know like on that on the new record
Marc:And I like, there's always been the thing about your voice, but not just about your voice.
Marc:It doesn't seem to matter who you're playing with.
Marc:There's this, what did I write down?
Marc:Me and my poetic impulse.
Marc:I said, the tone of sound, you can feel the Pacific Northwest, the haunting comfort of the weight of the gloomy sky.
Marc:And I said, he's an existential Viking.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:There's your blurb.
Marc:Do you need a blurb for Gargoyle?
Marc:i just got it thanks man but you know i think something there there is something to that don't you ever i mean there there's a place you go emotionally with the way you sing and also with the the chords you use and even over the years whatever song it is that there's it creates this space man i mean i don't know how to ask a artist about that but do you feel that do you feel where that came from do you think that some of that had to do with washington or dope or what
Guest:i don't know i mean uh speaking of box sets one of the first things that i actually heard that sort of informed where i would go with my own records i was working in a um warehouse for a chain of record stores in seattle and i had made you know three records with the trees already yeah but again i wasn't writing songs or doing any of that stuff and
Guest:I saw this Nick Drake box set called Fruit Tree.
Guest:And on the cover, it's just a picture of him in a long overcoat smoking cigarette, like walking on a beach or next to a lake or something.
Guest:It's a black and white photo.
Guest:And I thought, Fruit Tree.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:You know, what is this?
Guest:And I asked the guy who worked there and he goes, oh, man, this stuff is great.
Guest:And he made me a cassette of Nick Drake, Tim Buckley and Leonard Cohen, all three of who I'd never heard before.
Marc:How old were you?
Guest:Twenty three.
Guest:Oh, that was it for the portal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so that's.
Guest:And that really spoke to me in a way that very few things had before that type of music.
Guest:And I want to say maybe within six months, I had written the songs for my first solo record and made that record.
Guest:So it was really sort of my version of that stuff.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:You were under the influence and not in your own voice yet necessarily.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And could barely play three chords on the guitar to write these songs.
Guest:So that was it.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:And I mean, everything I've done since then, it's basically the same, but with a little bit more artistry, I guess.
Guest:So I've been really lucky to play with guys who are actually really proficient and great artists.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, you are.
Marc:You're a great singer.
Marc:Thanks.
Marc:But like Nick Drake, I was just talking to another dude about that today.
Marc:I think I just picked up his third album.
Marc:That song, somebody asked me about...
Marc:Which songs make me cry consistently.
Marc:And that song, Time Has Told Me.
Marc:That's beautiful, yeah.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:It didn't end well for that guy.
Guest:No, it didn't.
Guest:But I guess it doesn't really end well for everybody.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:The end is not good.
Marc:You just hope it's fast.
Marc:And I guess if you decide on it, if you do it correctly, it might be pretty quick.
Yeah.
Marc:Do you find that, you know, I guess when you listen to Nick Drake, there's that element where you can hear the weight of, I don't know if it's sad.
Marc:I guess it's sadness.
Marc:There's definitely a space that's created, and you do it too, that it feels like it could be sadness, but it isn't.
Marc:It's almost like embracing a certain darkness.
Marc:I mean, do you ever feel like what you're doing is like literally saving your life?
Guest:Well, yeah, you know, for a long time I wouldn't have copped to that, but I think that it's true.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's given me an outlet for whatever these, you know, ideas and thoughts and give me a place to sort of create this...
Guest:alternate reality that's in a song or a record.
Marc:Cushions it, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's a big, dark cushion.
Marc:That's the other blurb.
Marc:Big dark cushion.
Marc:I'm trying to help you out.
Marc:It's working.
Marc:Did you find that, did you find, you know, and I don't talk about this much, but I'm always curious about it because I don't talk to too many people that have had a long experience with dope.
Marc:But do you find that, like, because I've known a couple of dudes that I don't think they could have had the perception that they had without it.
Guest:You know, that's so hard to say, really.
Guest:Is it?
Guest:Well, I mean...
Marc:Because I was never a dope guy.
Marc:I did it a few times, but it didn't take.
Marc:I'm probably lucky.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'd say so.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, that's like... Well, you've done it both.
Guest:You've written songs on and off.
Guest:I have, and I've done records that I thought were really good on, and I've done records that I thought were really good off, and I've done records that couldn't come out because they were so bad when I was on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Ultimately, it's...
Guest:It's a crapshoot.
Guest:It's a gamble.
Guest:Well, yeah, it's a gamble.
Guest:And, you know, my experience with that stuff is ultimately not a positive one because of the, you know, damages.
Guest:you got pretty strung out done to my existence oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but um I mean really to be honest about drugs the only drugs I ever did that sort of enhanced my abilities I thought yeah wasn't really dope but uh weed at one time sure like made me do stuff that I never would have done otherwise I quit smoking weed for about five years and then around the time
Guest:I made my second solo record whiskey.
Guest:I decided to smoke weed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it made me do some stuff that I had never thought about doing.
Guest:And, of course, it turned on me quickly, like all drugs.
Guest:Well, yeah, because if you've got the bug, you're just going to do it all day long.
Guest:Well, anything I ever did, that's all I ever did.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:After the first time it wore off, I was doing it again.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:It's your job.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:but and then there was a brief period of time when and i shouldn't even say this because i don't in any way advocate right because ultimately it was really damaging as well but there was a period of time when i thought like you know this meth thing is really working for me artistically i'm really getting a lot done a lot done but those are really the only two you know
Marc:Well, I didn't get, like, I definitely was, you know, absorbed with weed in a big way.
Marc:But, like, meth, I'd done both meth and dope.
Marc:And, like, meth, like, I get it.
Marc:You know, there's at least a feeling of clarity.
Marc:Yeah, definitely.
Marc:Ultra clarity.
Marc:And, you know, there is an excitement to it, certainly.
Marc:But it just really comes down to, I guess, whether you want to risk your teeth.
Yeah.
Marc:your mental faculties right yeah yeah yeah and it's it's a dirty drug it's dirty yeah it's like it's just non-organic non-organic indeed as chemical as they come yeah yeah so okay so you do the solo records now how did the relationship with um with josh start well josh hami he lived in seattle and uh
Guest:Well, maybe like 94.
Guest:He was living in Seattle in 95.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Going to college.
Guest:He had quit Caius and was trying to... Fucking Caius.
Guest:What a band, dude.
Guest:Great band.
Marc:Weren't they?
Marc:Yeah, fantastic.
Marc:Wow.
Wow.
Marc:He was trying to get on the straight and narrow?
Guest:Yeah, he was trying to get on the straight and narrow.
Guest:His brother lived in Seattle, and he was enrolled in the University of Washington.
Guest:I had never met him, but I was a fan of Caius.
Guest:And the bass player in the Screamy Trees knew Josh from something they had done together.
Guest:And we were looking to get a second guitar player.
Guest:And he ended up saying, yes, he would do it.
Guest:And so he was actually already in the band by the time I met him.
Guest:in your band yeah they had rehearsed with him and everything and then i came one day and he was there so um he seems that makes sense yeah i mean it was obvious right away that he had like way more on the ball than any of us it was just sort of playing these yeah rhythm guitar parts but uh but we got along really well and
Guest:eventually uh we were both living down here he asked me to sing on the first queen's record but i was uh in the long-term rehab at that point i couldn't get out like six months uh actually went almost a year for the dope yeah everything everything yeah yeah
Guest:And you couldn't get out to sing?
Guest:I couldn't get out to sing.
Guest:And by the time you made the second record, I did quite a bit of singing on that one.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then the next couple, I've actually been on all of them except for the first one.
Marc:So when you were in a year of rehab, did that stick?
Marc:It did, yeah, for a few years.
Marc:So, no.
Marc:Well, it didn't stick forever.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But what does?
Marc:I know.
Marc:Are you sober now or no?
Marc:I am, yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Like working it or just... I'm working it, yeah.
Marc:Oh, good, man.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:That's pretty much the only thing that... You feel better?
Guest:Of course, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:A little more freedom, huh?
Marc:The job is over.
Marc:Lots more freedom.
Marc:So, like...
Marc:It seems to me like, you know, when I look at this stuff you did that, you know, you definitely get a tremendous amount of respect from the community in a lot of different ways, in a way that not a lot of singers do or rock performers do.
Marc:Like, you know, it seems like the alt acts,
Marc:You know, the hipster kids love you.
Marc:The fucking hardcore, you know, all rockers love you.
Marc:And then the hard rock dudes fucking love you.
Marc:Like you can you have this this this ticket or this like ability to because your instrument is so solid that you can work with all these different people.
Marc:That's kind of an amazing thing.
Marc:Do you do you recognize that?
Yeah.
Guest:I don't know if I recognize the love you just described, but I recognize the opportunity that I've had, you know, to work with all kinds of different people.
Marc:Guns N' Roses guys.
Guest:Well, Duff's a good friend of mine.
Guest:He's a Seattle guy, too.
Marc:he is huh yeah and that like but that's a whole other world i mean there's differences in these worlds like there's differences in the world in my mind maybe not in yours or maybe not and but there's a difference in the guns and roses circle and the dinosaur junior circle well yeah they seem to be different orbits like you know rock you know at los angeles hollywood rock and roll
Marc:is specific i mean and i think i i think that you know josh is sort of uh in between those sometimes but he's definitely a hard rock guy but then when you think about jay jay's a hard rock as hell but it's like his own weird thing you know what i mean yeah well i mean there definitely are uh differences um
Guest:in the specific uh you know communities communities i guess but that doesn't mean that people don't uh you know hang out interact with people well that's well see that's weird because as a guy who likes music and is somewhat of a fan and not you know you have a lot of different people
Marc:you get this weird assumption that you guys are like comic book people, like you're like superheroes of some kind, and there are these different factions that, you know, but behind the scenes, I've learned after talking to people, it's like, you know, you pass in the hallway or whatever the hallway is or whatever that represents, and you're like, what are you working on?
Marc:I got a thing going.
Marc:It's like, you know, it's not, you know, there's a difference between the front room and the back room, you know?
Marc:Well, I think, you know, a lot of that,
Guest:kind of perception is probably because of the sort of mainstream success of one band compared to like the sort of sustained different kind of success of a different kind of band you know what i mean sure yeah yeah yeah i'm just thinking the difference between guns and roses and dinosaur junior now right um you know at the end of the day it's it's music and you guys you come in contact with people from right all different kinds of bands
Marc:But you did a couple of records with Isabel from Belle and Sebastian.
Marc:I did.
Marc:I made three records with her.
Marc:Now, was that, were you guys in a relationship?
Marc:No.
Marc:How did that, how does that happen?
Marc:See, that's one of those things where it's like, you're a singer and, you know, she's, it's like it makes sense, but it seems two different worlds, doesn't it?
Guest:uh or not to you well i mean i was a fan of bill and sebastian yeah but it it was definitely you know not in my direct uh realm yeah not the kind of uh you weren't hanging out not hanging out right um she got in contact with me via a record company or management or something wanted me to sing on one song
Marc:which i did and then we ended up meeting in person and became friends and ended up making all these records together pretty records thank you you make pretty records with that with her well i agree thanks and which one of that the record you did were there was a lot of collaboration like i don't know the record but i did some reading about it was it bubble gum that record was that yeah it was your record yeah and like there was a shit ton of people on there
Guest:yeah i made that while i was playing with the queens so all those guys were on it and um was pj harvey on it she sang a couple songs yeah are you pals with her we we know each other yeah i wouldn't say we're pals but i'm a huge fan of what she does i mean she's the greatest she's something right yeah and what what happened so how did you manage to um do you are you married
Guest:I've been married a couple times.
Guest:I'm in the process of ending my second marriage right now.
Marc:Yeah, I've been through a couple.
Marc:You got kids?
Marc:No.
Marc:Me neither.
Marc:We did it.
Marc:Yeah, we won, man.
Marc:Don't ever look at it differently.
Marc:Oh, wait, before we get to the new record...
Marc:The Afghan Wigs, they were a band that I remember enjoying a couple of their records, and I know they did a new one recently, and I know that Greg's out talking to people, and I haven't talked to him, because I'm nervous, I get nervous about musicians sometimes.
Marc:but you guys know each other a long time and you do you work together because i listen a little bit of one of the records you do with him yeah i mean we played on a bunch of records together we're good friends how how did you guys uh come together with you because you record under another band name right
Guest:Well, we recorded with his band, Twilight Singers, sang with those guys, played on a few of their records.
Guest:He's played on a bunch of my records.
Guest:We made a record together called The Gutter Twins.
Guest:Right, that one.
Marc:Yeah, and we... Were you just like-minded?
Marc:You just get along?
Guest:Yeah, we're just real good friends.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Is that from Seattle days?
Guest:We knew each other in Seattle, but we didn't really hang out until we both lived down here, like in the late 90s again.
Marc:Man.
Marc:Tough racket.
Marc:Music.
Marc:Because when I'm going over your stuff and I'm planning to talk to you, there's just so many different side projects, so many different bands.
Marc:You've sung on fucking everything.
Marc:Have you met most of your heroes?
Guest:I've met quite a few of them, yeah.
Guest:Like who else?
Guest:Well, one of my first heroes was a guy named Greg Sage.
Guest:He was in a band from Portland, Oregon called The Wipers.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I want to say it was the second show I ever did was opening for him and became friends.
Guest:He was also an influence on my first solo record along with that other stuff I mentioned because he had made a record
Guest:a solo record that was heavily acoustic and that was uh i actually heard that before i heard nick drake and that stuff so uh he you know i spent a lot of time with him back in the 80s um jeffrey again yeah um rollins rollins sure did shows with him and you know know him he's he's great
Guest:he's a real character man yeah he's one of the greatest i just remember before i actually knew henry yeah playing a show with them at the old i-beam in san francisco and we played and of course the connor brothers got in a fist fight on stage with each other with each other yeah oh my god that was the only only person they would fight with was each other yeah um and then i was off the side of the stage ron's band getting ready to go up and
Guest:and henry is like in full view of the audience everything doing push-ups or four count burpees like you know like working out on the side of the stage i was like man this guy's he means business he is something else and of course he is yeah is he doing all right have you talked to him lately i saw him i want to say and
Guest:Maybe it was 2010.
Guest:Oh, it's been a while.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But we have, you know, a lot of people in common.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:He's a very, he's an earnest motherfucker, man.
Guest:He is, yeah.
Guest:Great, great taste in music.
Marc:Oh, he knows everything.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He, like, I talked to him once and he gave me all the, like, I did a series of shows with him, spoken word things, and he brought me a, like, a hard drive.
Marc:Said, here's some stuff.
Marc:And I'm like, holy shit.
Marc:Where the fuck do you even get...
Marc:Where'd this come from?
Marc:You know, like just like studio versions of things.
Marc:You're like, what?
Marc:What is this?
Marc:Yeah, man, he's something else.
Marc:So on Gargoyle, it's like you've done, this is like, what, your 10th record?
Marc:10th record with my name on it.
Marc:Now, one thing I noticed, and I noticed this because, you know, maybe I'm wrong, but like I recently...
Marc:Got sent the promo version.
Marc:It hasn't come out yet of Ray Davies' new record from the Kings.
Marc:And, you know, I don't know if it's because I'm 53 and that, you know, like I just listened to Amy Mann's new record and she's around our age, you know.
Marc:What, are you a little younger than me?
Marc:What are you, 52?
Marc:I'm 52, yeah.
Marc:That like, you know, people like it's I guess the point I'm making, it seems that, you know, your voice and your songs sound like they're deeper and have more wisdom and that, you know, your own kind of vulnerability and fragility of just being where we are in life.
Marc:You can feel that alongside of.
Marc:this is a good thing don't misunderstand it that you can feel that alongside of what you've always been doing and it adds another dimension to it are you aware of that do you feel like you're writing differently now well i definitely feel like i'm better at it now because it's easier i don't know if i'm just kidding myself or what right um but as far as like uh
Guest:what the end result is i i don't i don't really think about it no i just sort of like uh go on instinct and yeah and i know that because i'm less uh critical of what i do yeah now i feel like it's getting better that's it that's what she said too it's like i i give less of a shit about what people think of me
Marc:Basically was the I'm paraphrasing.
Marc:But like once you get like once that it's what a fucking relief that is.
Marc:If there's any gift to, you know, living, continuing to live when you see, you know, people in our peers pass at young ages is that eventually you stop giving a fuck about certain things.
Marc:Indeed.
Marc:That's a fucking gift.
Marc:I got to make sure I remember that.
Marc:Because there were a lot of things when I was younger that seemed like an awfully big deal that really it's just sort of like, what the fuck?
Marc:Oh, man.
Guest:Everything was a big deal to me when I was younger, and now nothing is.
Marc:But you can't.
Marc:There's no way to learn that before it happens.
Marc:Who's going to tell you that?
Marc:It's like, hey, you know what?
Marc:You shouldn't give a shit so much.
Marc:Fuck you.
Marc:This is life or death here, man.
Marc:fuck you right what do you know old man who played on this record
Guest:uh alan johannes plays on most of it and he's the guy i've made records with since bubblegum produces um but a lot of the music for this one was recorded and written by a guy named rob marshall a british guy how'd you find him he actually found me yeah asked me to do something for this project that he was doing and i recorded some vocals and
Guest:i mean i heard it first and i was like yeah this is cool and i can do something with this and i wrote some words and record some vocals for his thing yeah and uh then he sent me an email saying i really like what you did i'd like to write something for you someday and i was like okay well i filed that away and then i was sort of running into a wall trying to finish this new record and i was not really digging what i was doing and i thought hey maybe that and
Guest:call in a favor yeah maybe that guy's got something for me and so he ended up sending me a whole bunch of stuff which was again just as good as the stuff i had done for him and it was really easy to write too oh cool ended up half the record was his stuff
Marc:Well, I appreciate the fact that it's a reasonable amount of songs.
Marc:Instead of?
Marc:90.
Marc:You know, like, for some reason, people who do CDs are like, we're going to put 18 songs on there.
Marc:It's like, dude, you know, records were good for a reason.
Marc:You know, cut, you know, make some choices.
Guest:Yeah, but I thought about just doing eight songs this time.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But, yeah, 10 seems to be.
Marc:Yeah, Amy did, like, 10 on hers, too.
Marc:I was like, thanks.
Marc:Because it feels like, you know, you made some decisions.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Guest:Well, in my case, it's just using exactly what I have.
Guest:Heck, that's all I got.
Guest:That's all I got.
Guest:That's all I got for this one.
Marc:Thank God it's enough.
Marc:So are you going to go out and tour, or what are you going to do?
Guest:Yeah, I'm going to tour in May, June, July in Europe, and then maybe some state stuff in August, and then back to Europe for a couple months.
Marc:How are you holding up in Europe?
Marc:How's the crowds?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, it's the only place I have a crowd is Europe, so I managed to.
Guest:Nothing wrong with that.
Guest:It's worked for me for several years, so I'm lucky.
Marc:I don't know what it is or why that is, but it seems like you can hold on to the community longer with being somebody who's specific and has specific fans.
Marc:It seems like you can continue to build there.
Marc:Here, I don't know what's going on here.
Guest:Yeah, I don't either.
Guest:But I've managed to, you know, I tour every year in Europe and pay my bills from that.
Marc:So I'm blessed.
Marc:Yeah, blessed.
Marc:Good.
Marc:Still alive.
Marc:Well, it was good talking to you, Mark.
Marc:Nice talking to you.
Marc:Mark Lanigan.
Marc:Intense.
Marc:Intense.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com.
Marc:Check out the tour dates.
Marc:Listen to the podcast.
Marc:Get on the mailing list.
Marc:No music today because there's no electricity at my house.
Marc:I have no guitars.
Marc:There's nothing but paintbrushes here.
Marc:Is there anything that'll make a sound?
Marc:This is a... Here, let's do some experimental music.
Marc:This is a small plastic container filled with tiny beads.
Shh.
Marc:Shh.
Shh.
Marc:That was improvisational and quite frankly odd.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I did it.
Marc:And that's my commentary on it.
Marc:Boomer lives!