Episode 801 - Anne Hathaway / Aimee Mann
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fucksters?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:This is my podcast.
Marc:Very exciting day today.
Marc:You want me to tell you why?
Marc:I will tell you why.
Marc:Maybe you don't know this about me, but today is Anne Hathaway Day.
Marc:Anne Hathaway was in my garage.
Marc:Also, I don't want to give short shrift to anybody, but Amy Mann stopped by and played a new song from her new album, also today, coming up shortly, delivered into your head.
Marc:But for those of you who have been with me pre-WTF,
Marc:Back to the break room live days somewhere in the 2007 2008 area when my life was falling apart.
Marc:I was working in New York.
Marc:And I was a shattered emotional mess doing this streaming video show that no one watched, except for those of you who knew the show.
Marc:How you doing, you 1,724 people?
Marc:But at some point, I saw Rachel getting married.
Marc:And that's a Jonathan Demme film, I believe, yes, starring Anne Hathaway.
Marc:And...
Marc:I was so taken with her performance and with her that that I developed a kind of.
Marc:All right, maybe maybe it was a little bit of an obsession.
Marc:I'll admit it was a while ago.
Marc:I think I can admit that I will tell her about it.
Marc:I will be straight with it.
Marc:But from that point on, I just loved her.
Marc:I loved her work.
Marc:I loved her.
Marc:And it became sort of a running theme on that show.
Marc:The idea of her maybe stopping by to do an interview on Break Room Live at the old Air America Studios on 6th Avenue that nobody watched, could not have been on her radar at all.
Marc:But I insisted that there was an outside chance that it was.
Marc:Now, I don't know really what's going on out there in the world around this particular movie star and actress, Anne Hathaway, but...
Marc:I love her, and I'm a huge fan.
Marc:And I believe she works hard, and she does amazing work always.
Marc:And I also believe that if you don't like her, especially with some sort of strange intensity, it says more about you.
Marc:There's something wrong with you.
Marc:Look within.
Marc:I guess I'm just telling you this because I was excited to have her here, and that might read a bit.
Marc:I'm not one for hiding the fanboy-ness on occasion.
Marc:But it was great to meet her and talk to her.
Marc:And the new movie, Colossal, is an interesting movie.
Marc:I had to rethink the whole thing.
Marc:I watched it once, and then I had to go back and think about it more.
Marc:I'll tell her.
Marc:I don't need to tell you.
Marc:And as I said, Amy Mann is here, who this song she plays is fucking excellent.
Marc:I personally believe that her new record, Mental Illness, is her best record.
Marc:You know what?
Marc:I'll tell her that, too.
Marc:I'm going to tell her that.
Marc:That's what I'm going to do.
Marc:So I just got back from Denver and Boulder.
Marc:Me and the American original, that is Dean Del Rey, did a couple shows there.
Marc:I like traveling with Dean because we like to do the same things.
Marc:We enjoy eating food.
Marc:Now we're both relatively healthy, but he's different.
Marc:He's got the, you know, I was almost a diabetic, no sugar, no starch thing.
Marc:And I've got the no meat thing because I have high cholesterol.
Marc:But, you know, we're in the same ballpark.
Marc:We both like vinyl.
Marc:And, you know, we will go look at clothing.
Marc:We will go look at jeans, shirts, jackets, and bags.
Marc:So, as I said, the crowds were great.
Marc:And maybe I didn't say that, but I'm saying it now.
Marc:See, I'm actually a little filled with a tingly nervousness
Marc:Just to introduce the Anne Hathaway show.
Marc:It's fucking ridiculous.
Marc:I'm a grown ass man.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:And don't get any fucked up ideas.
Marc:I am in a healthy relationship with a wonderful woman who paints, and she is married to a nice man, and they have a baby.
Marc:This is just... This is kind of residual remnants of... All right.
Marc:All right.
Marc:It's a crush.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:I said it.
Marc:All right?
Marc:So...
Marc:Let me talk about this because this is sad news.
Marc:Last week, we lost a couple of comedians.
Marc:And one, it's always tragic when people die.
Marc:But one was just starting to come into her own.
Marc:And, you know, it was just...
Marc:It was really shocking to me and jarring because when I was in Austin, this is what, a week ago or so on April 1st, I worked with this woman.
Marc:Her name was, sadly, LaShonda Lester, and I did not know her.
Marc:I was sent a few videos of people in the Austin area.
Marc:I looked at like four or five different comics, and without a doubt,
Marc:After seeing her eight-minute set, I was like, that's her.
Marc:She's authentic.
Marc:She's real.
Marc:She's got her own voice.
Marc:She's talking about her life.
Marc:She's hilarious.
Marc:And I booked her for that show, and I met her on April 1st for the first time.
Marc:She's a lovely person, a sweet person, but just deep.
Marc:And she gets up there, and she talked about her life, and she had health issues, and she talked about them on stage.
Marc:and uh i had the same feeling when i when i watched her live as i did when i saw her on that video that that you know just uh just a great comic you know an honest comic uh and and and authentic and that's really the best kind and it's a great loss to the uh to the comic community it would have been great to see what she could have done with herself she was getting ready to do a comedy central special and um just fucking sad and and uh
Marc:You know, my heart goes out to her family and the Austin comedy community because she was something else.
Marc:And it's really sad.
Marc:And it was really shocking.
Marc:And also, tragic, but 91 is not a bad age to die at.
Marc:That's a good run.
Marc:Don Rickles is dead.
Marc:He was old.
Marc:He was great.
Marc:He had a long, amazing career, a rich life.
Marc:And he was...
Marc:I never got to talk to him, but I tried.
Marc:But he was really one of the funniest people ever.
Marc:He was one of the guys that planted the seed in my brain that I think ultimately led me to become a comic, quite honestly.
Marc:Because I remember watching him when I was a kid.
Marc:I remember watching him on, it was like an hour special when they used to do those, like variety shows.
Marc:But it was an hour special.
Marc:And I remember these weird lines.
Marc:Like I think the gimmick was he was on stage and he was talking to someone in the audience, which was also him, dressed like a schnook.
Marc:And I remember the line was, nice suit.
Marc:Did that come with two pairs of pants and a yo-yo?
Marc:And I don't know why I remember that, but it's hilarious.
Marc:It doesn't even make sense, really.
Marc:He just had this amazing timing.
Marc:And that intensity, he had this intensity that was like barely hiding this rage.
Marc:And of course, to me and to everybody who loved him, that made him very endearing.
Marc:I mean, I used to love watching him on the Dean Martin roasts.
Marc:He was so fucking funny.
Marc:So fucking funny.
Marc:There's one line I remember where they're on the dais and Don's I don't know if he's at the podium or just further down the dais.
Marc:And Jimmy Stewart at that point is old, the older man.
Marc:And Don leans over and looks down at Jimmy goes, Jimmy, I spoke to the family.
Marc:You're doing fine.
Marc:I just loved the guy.
Marc:And it's sad.
Marc:But he did live a good long life.
Marc:And I got to be honest with you.
Marc:You know, to dismiss Don Rickles as being insensitive or incorrect somehow is a real failure to contextualize him properly.
Marc:And if you think that, you're a fucking hockey puck.
Marc:He was one of the best, if not the best, of his generation.
Marc:I loved him.
Marc:And I'm very sorry I never got to talk to him.
Marc:We tried a bit.
Marc:We tried.
Marc:Amy Mann and I go way back.
Marc:I've been a fan.
Marc:I've been a friend at different points in our lives.
Marc:I have not seen her in a long time.
Marc:I was thrilled to have her on the show and catch up.
Marc:And when I got a copy of the new album, I was like, holy shit, this is fucking amazing.
Marc:She better bring her goddamn guitar.
Marc:And she did.
Marc:This is me and Amy Mann.
Marc:And she's doing a song from her new album called Mental Illness that's available now wherever you get your music stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:amy man i don't think what i what have you been avoiding me did you i mean have you been wandering around and i i don't know we don't go we don't first of all we're not in the same circles because there there are no circles what are the circles
Marc:There's not any anymore.
Guest:There's no circles.
Marc:There was some circles for a while and then some concentric circles and then the center broke apart and then everybody kind of went their way and had kids and got jobs or something.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:There was a time where people hung out.
Marc:Maybe people still do.
Marc:I'm not one of them.
Guest:There has to be a place to hang out.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:It used to be the old Largo, which was a long time, our backyard.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:You still there?
Marc:In the backyard?
Marc:No, in the house.
Guest:In that house?
Guest:Yeah, the backyard looks great.
Guest:Does it?
Guest:Yeah, you should come over.
Guest:We totally redid it.
Guest:It looks fantastic.
Marc:All right, maybe I'll come over in the summer.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And now that I'm old, it'll be less awkward.
Marc:And make the steak tips.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Oh, my God, they were so good.
Marc:I'll do whatever.
Marc:It'd be nice to socialize.
Marc:Are you a hermit now?
Marc:I don't know if I'm a hermit.
Marc:I just don't know where people have time to do everything.
Marc:I mean, I don't know where when people say, did you watch all 90 of those things?
Guest:I'm like, where the fuck did you- I know where you get the time.
Marc:And I'm self-employed, but I still don't have any time.
Marc:I got a couple hours today, so I went to the doctor and I got some skin tags frozen.
Marc:Very exciting.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:See, as you get older, your life is more occupied with just maintenance.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, medicals, no.
Guest:I'm totally with you.
Guest:I'm like, when am I going to find time to get that dumb blood test so they can check my cholesterol?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:That's exactly right.
Marc:Well, I'll go do that.
Marc:And then when you find out the results and they're not quite right, then you have a project.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's like, how do I get that down?
Marc:What do I got to eat?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Shop for specific things.
Marc:I guess those steak tips are off the menu now.
Marc:For now.
Marc:They are off the menu.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:God damn it is right.
Marc:Why do I bring this up?
Marc:I know.
Marc:I've been okay without eating.
Marc:I found that I didn't eat that much red meat to begin with.
Marc:So I'm like, and it's kind of nice to eat fish.
Marc:It makes me go.
Marc:See, that's another thing I do now.
Marc:I go to Fish King in Glendale that has fresh fish and they service the Armenian community and people that need fresh fish.
Marc:So it's good.
Marc:And I got a guy there who I tip and he takes care of me and gives me good fish.
Marc:Wait, you greased the fish guy?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Old school.
Marc:You got to grease the fish, guy.
Guest:It's fantastic.
Guest:It's nice.
Guest:You have a very involved and intricate life, I feel.
Guest:So, yeah, that's why you're not hanging around backstage at Laura's.
Marc:I'm a lunatic who likes to shop at three places for specific things.
Marc:Where do you shop?
Marc:What is your process?
Guest:My husband does the marketing in our house.
Marc:Oh, does he?
Guest:Yeah, he does the marketing and the cooking.
Marc:Mr. Penn goes out and does everything?
Marc:That is the only time he goes out because he is a hermit.
Marc:He is a hermit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But this record, that must have taken you some time.
Marc:I don't want to talk out of school or be weird or not know because I've listened to, I can't say that I'm completely familiar with everything you've done, but I think this is like your best record.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:Do you?
Guest:I really love this record.
Guest:I'm really thrilled with this record.
Guest:And, you know, part of it is because it is, what's the record I would make if I didn't care about how people received it?
Guest:It's the, you know, acoustic, sad, depressing songs about the weirdos I know.
Marc:Well, I mean, I just like, I've listened to a lot of your records at different points in my life, but for some reason I put this one on the other day and I'm like, well, this is like mature kind of stuff that she wants to be doing.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:I didn't feel any of the, you know, like, like me thing.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:No, exactly.
Guest:That's exactly right.
Guest:There's no...
Guest:It's like, no, you're not going to buy it.
Guest:We all know that.
Guest:So I'm going to just do what I want to do.
Marc:No, but some of these songs are great.
Marc:Poor Judge is great.
Marc:Philly Sinks is great.
Marc:And I only went through it once and a half, one and a half times.
Marc:Roller Coasters is good.
Marc:A lot of the themes, the Amy Mann themes, those troubled codependent relationships.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:We love those.
Guest:We love it.
Guest:Mark, that's one of the things we have in common.
Marc:We're so into it.
Marc:But I'm kind of level.
Marc:I'm good.
Marc:I'm in a pretty level thing.
Guest:Yeah?
Marc:No crazy lately.
Guest:It's hard to believe, but hands off.
Marc:I mean, I don't even know if it's... I wouldn't call it recovered as much as exhausted.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because at some point, like it must be a relief, I'm assuming, just to write about these things and reflect.
Marc:I don't know your life, but I don't know how insane you are.
Marc:Is there any insanity okay?
Guest:You know, everyone's crazy is the problem.
Guest:And there are always crazy satellites that orbit you for a while.
Marc:Let me put it another way.
Marc:Or vice versa.
Marc:How much engaged drama...
Marc:Yeah, there's crazy everywhere.
Marc:We're all crazy, but it doesn't mean you have to do the dance.
Guest:Yeah, that's the work I do is how to set boundaries.
Guest:What does the boundary look like?
Guest:Where do I set it?
Guest:What does setting it look like?
Guest:It's all that.
Guest:I know you're exhausted just hearing that sentence.
Yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, I think that's one of the reasons why I don't do much.
Marc:It's like, there's your boundary.
Marc:No go.
Guest:Not doing it.
Marc:Can't.
Marc:Sorry.
Marc:Not available.
Marc:All turned off in there.
Guest:Decline.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That resource is not available right now.
Marc:I cannot be your battery, nor can you be mine.
Yeah.
Marc:Well, that's good, I guess.
Marc:But now, this album is called Mental Illness, and I'm not a rock critic, and I have to struggle to even listen to lyrics because I'm a dumb melody guy and riff guy, but I listen to all of them.
Marc:But is there an arc?
Marc:Is there a theme?
Marc:When you call something Mental Illness, did you see it as a whole piece?
Marc:Because there's a nice manageable number of songs on here, Amy, man.
Yeah.
Marc:I was so relieved when I looked at the CD in my car.
Marc:I'm like, oh, my God, this is the last song.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:There's not 90 songs on this.
Guest:Nobody wants 90 songs.
Guest:Why do people do it?
Guest:I don't because they're trying to give them their money's worth.
Guest:I don't want my money's worth.
Marc:No, make a record.
Guest:I went just under my money's worth.
Guest:Eleven songs.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Were there more?
Guest:There were a couple more, but I felt like these are the ones that made the grouping, the mental illness grouping.
Guest:Some of them, there was a couple that were like, meh.
Guest:There was a song about, it was like a murder ballad, which I guess would qualify.
Marc:Sure, a murder ballad.
Guest:But it didn't really fit in.
Marc:Like old-timey murder ballad?
Guest:Yeah, from the point of view of the corpse.
Marc:Oh, of a specific murder?
Guest:No, just a creepy, I don't know, just a creepy thing that came to me.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know what was going on.
Marc:It wasn't based on some weird folk hero you're trying to create?
Guest:No, it was, it's called, it's called Swanee River and it was just, you know, I just had this image of it.
Guest:It's really, it's beyond depressing.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:Image of a corpse at the bottom of the river.
Guest:Ooh, that's lonely.
Guest:With like the silt and mud.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:The little fishies eating it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Ah.
Guest:Anyway, that didn't make the record.
Marc:Wow, well that sounds like you could have been, was that the dance number on the record?
Marc:But what about the theme?
Marc:Did you feel like there was a theme or was that something you kind of put on it on the end?
Guest:I felt like while I was writing this record or just before, I did, I was having encounters with people that there were a little more specifically could be classified themes.
Guest:you know, not just sort of everyday crazy, you know, like people with real mental illnesses.
Marc:Like people in your life or just people at the store or people?
Guest:People, yeah, people I intersected with.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah, but.
Marc:Yeah, it's kind of, it's wild when that happens, isn't it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What's more wild is when you find out someone you've known for years is like that day you're like, oh shit, you're much more fucked up than I ever imagined.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Marc:Some of those?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:yeah like oh you're taking lithium wow wow i mean like no judgment obviously because you know yeah because you and i are about as crazy as we can be yeah but then what's good they're medicating if they need that but you just didn't know that that person was yeah the poles were that separated yeah or or rather it explained some stuff sure sure well it should explain that gee this could have been a lot worse
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Marc:I guess that's one highlight of finding out someone's on medicine.
Marc:It's like, thank you.
Marc:Yeah, that answers a lot of questions.
Guest:Oh, I thought you just had a lot of energy and didn't sleep very much and talked a lot.
Marc:You're very creative.
Marc:Oh, he's not doing his lithium right then, if that's still happening, if he's still up for a few days with the big ideas.
Marc:But what was this thing you did with Ted Leo?
Guest:uh ted and i had um uh we still have a band called the both and we made uh wrote and recorded a record right after my last record my last record was called charmer and then we um he we went on tour with each other he opened for me yeah we became really good friends and that was the first time like that recently yeah yeah i mean it was a couple three years because you guys are sort of the same orbity people yeah yeah
Guest:I knew him and I knew his music, but he was doing a solo thing.
Guest:And as I was watching the solo thing, I was like, I feel like if I put bass to this, it could be like I sort of heard how a duo would sound.
Guest:And I was really eager to play bass again.
Guest:And that was just super fun.
Guest:And it was, I don't know, I also think that I'm really in the mood to collaborate with people.
Guest:I don't have that like, I got to prove that I'm a great songwriter all on my own.
Guest:Every word has to be mine.
Guest:And it's really fun to collaborate with people.
Marc:And you're playing bass?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So it's just bass and he's on acoustic?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, he's on electric.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:And when we tour, we have a drummer, so it's a power trio.
Guest:But we do a lot of shows, just the two of us.
Marc:And you're writing together as well?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Have you recorded?
Guest:Yeah, we did an album.
Marc:Called The Both.
Marc:The Both.
Marc:How was that?
Marc:I love it.
Marc:Now I have to get that now.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now you're too behind.
Marc:I'm plenty behind.
Marc:But like Ted, I knew years ago briefly in New York, and I haven't really listened to his stuff in a long time either.
Marc:He's a good pop guy.
Guest:He's a great, I mean, he's a really good songwriter, and his guitar playing is so interesting.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:His soloing is so interesting.
Guest:It's melodic, but it has this sort of punky thing that feels like it's about to fall apart in a really interesting way.
Guest:uh so yeah i'm i'm really i'm really into him you know so it's a it's fun to do a power trio thing wow so because he can hold up his end yeah well who are the people on this record are they your regular crew or uh jonathan colton is is on it uh because jonathan is does like a a lot or he's like a little um we wrote a couple songs together really i wrote a song with this guy john roderick who's which songs did you write with jonathan colton
Guest:um roller coasters and patient zero and uh why am i forgetting oh good for me that philly sinks is that about a guy that's like the same guy from every song you've ever written uh the the the dry drunk yeah who now is just uh now it's like sex and love addict yeah right that guy recurring theme so there is a through line there's you know these people are endlessly fascinated to me
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, maybe that's the difference between you and me.
Marc:My fascination, it wanes.
Guest:Yeah, well, you know, it's nice to have a bit of a distance instead of like, right.
Marc:Well, sometimes it's just sort of like, again?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Like...
Marc:I can't do it anymore.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they become easier.
Marc:People become easier as they become more predictable.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But that implies, like, if you stay in those kind of engagements, so that implies something about you, you know?
Guest:Oh, absolutely.
Guest:I find myself in the same kind of dynamics over and over.
Guest:I mean, you know, but you have to look at it like, here's an opportunity to practice, you know.
Marc:I'm going to use this guy that knows me one way and act totally different and see how that goes.
Marc:Oh, that didn't go well.
Marc:Now I'm back in the old shit.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I just, you know, a lot of it is like practicing like, okay, practicing boundaries.
Guest:And like you said, sometimes the boundary is like, I can't do, I can't, you know, I can't know you.
Marc:Yeah, I can't.
Marc:Sometimes I can't even open emails.
Marc:That's how tight my boundaries are.
Marc:I can't do it.
Guest:Just don't even read it.
Marc:I'm going to throw that one right away.
Marc:Thank God there's like with texting and that kind of stuff.
Marc:I don't know what happened, but I just became one of those people that goes through my texts and I'm like, holy shit, I didn't answer that.
Marc:You think you answer it in your head?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh yeah, okay, I'll do that.
Guest:Here's the answer in my head.
Marc:Yeah, and then it just sits there for a week.
Marc:And I'm sad and also elevated and excited that I'm one of those people now.
Marc:I'm the person you can text, and a week later I'll be like, oh, what's up?
Marc:And then you're going, you fucking asshole.
Guest:I think that's probably good.
Guest:I have that, like, I could answer this in 30 seconds, which is terrible if you're driving or doing anything or trying to have any kind of life.
Marc:I needed a week to tell you I couldn't come over.
Guest:Yeah, that's right.
Marc:So now what happens now?
Marc:Do you go out on the road?
Guest:I'm going out on the road April 20th to May 13th.
Marc:With this band?
Yeah.
Marc:um i yeah it is pretty much that band but when you go now do you find uh have you like have you do you have these fans that have like sort of aged with you yeah like yeah these people that have been coming for 20 years yeah some of them yeah like hey and you're like oh yeah how's it go yeah yeah there's some some diehard fans that you know it's nice right in a way other than you can see your own mortality reflected in them
Guest:I think it's really sweet.
Guest:I'm surprised people don't like, how are you not sick of me?
Marc:Right.
Marc:But then it's challenging because they come, but then they say sort of, you know, they say those slightly passive aggressive compliments.
Marc:Like, no, it's a lot different than the last one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Like, what do you mean?
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Guest:It's good.
Guest:No, no, it's good.
Guest:Well, thank you.
Guest:I like it.
Guest:Oh, I liked it.
Marc:Nice to see you too.
Marc:What song do you play when you play songs from this record?
Guest:This will be the first time I have ever played a song from this record.
Marc:I'm going to try it out.
Guest:I'm going to play this song Patient Zero because I sort of know it.
Guest:Even though I think I'm going to take my lyric crib sheet just in case.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Jay Mascis has an entire book of everything he's ever written.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I have that somewhere.
Guest:I mean, it's a little heavy to carry around.
Marc:As we get older, you're going to have to pull that out.
Guest:Why leave it to chance?
Marc:Well, you can just dill in it and just garble your way through things.
Marc:All right, here, I'll shut down.
Marc:Let's set up.
Ooh.
Guest:When you landed, someone carried you back From here on out, you're patient zero Smelling ether as they hand you the rack
Guest:Life is good, you look around and think I'm in the right neighborhood But honey, you just smoothed it Life is grand, and wouldn't you like to have it go as wind?
Guest:Go as wind
Guest:hip hip hooray hocus pocus with some magic you can fly through the air when you're the guy pulling focus there are people who will wish you weren't there
Guest:Life is good when you look around and think I'm in the right neighborhood.
Guest:But honey, you just moved in.
Guest:Life is grand and wouldn't you like to have a go as planned?
Guest:Go as planned Go west, young man, go west Take a little screen test Doesn't count as a job well done The locusts had their day The suckers pay away Carmen Stern would probably pull that trigger for fun And in the hills where hope is such a constant companion
Guest:Close enough to almost touch the lights of the ganga The lights of the ganga
Guest:The news filtered over the transom That a villain ended up with a part You paid your respects like a ransom To a moment that was doomed from the start
Guest:Life is good, you look around and think I'm in the right neighborhood But honey, you don't belong Life is grand, and wouldn't you like to have it go?
Guest:At last one
Guest:As well And in the hills where hope is such a constant conglomer Close enough to almost touch the lights of the canyon The lights of the canyon The lights of the canyon
Marc:Did I start clapping too soon?
Guest:No, it was perfect.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:It sounded so good.
Marc:I really love this record.
Marc:Thank you, Mark.
Marc:I'm very happy for you.
Marc:So what is it like with something like this, this album, when you do a single, what is a single on this one in your mind?
Guest:You know, there really isn't a single.
Guest:I have a couple of songs I made videos for because I just had ideas for videos.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Doesn't work like that anymore, really.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This song, there's a video for, and I just made a video for the first song on the record, Goose Snow Cone.
Marc:Now, can I ask you a dumb question?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Because I'm trying to be more lyrically sensitive.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And I know that poetry is poetry, and it means what you want it to mean sometimes, and you get whatever emotion you get out of it.
Marc:But what is a Goose Snow Cone?
Yeah.
Guest:Well, it's a dumb thing that really existed only in my mind, and I was going to replace it with something, but I couldn't think of a thing to replace it with.
Guest:I mean, I feel like you will relate to this a little bit.
Guest:There's a cat that belongs to a friend of mine, and the cat is often in their Instagram account.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she's white and fluffy.
Guest:And I was on tour and feeling really homesick.
Guest:And I saw a picture of this cat with its little white, fluffy, snowball-like face.
Guest:And so I was writing this song about being homesick and sort of lonely.
Guest:And it was snowing.
Guest:I was in Ireland and it was snowing and depressing.
Guest:But I couldn't figure out what to replace it with.
Guest:So I just was like, fuck it.
Guest:I'm going to just have to explain it every time people ask.
Marc:You think people will ask?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:They already have?
Guest:Yeah, they ask.
Marc:Goose snow cone.
Guest:Because nobody, you can't imagine what it is.
Marc:Well, yeah, because you like a snow cone.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That takes you somewhere.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they're like, what's a goose snow cone?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But what do you say generally, other than just that?
Marc:Can't you just say, hey, well, don't fucking bother me.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's poetry, man.
Guest:Yeah, I get to have some kind of leeway.
Guest:It means whatever I want it to me.
Marc:You're the songwriter.
Guest:It's about a cat, so I made the video about the cat.
Guest:The cat is in the video.
Marc:A lot of good turns of phrase, some smart, wise stuff on this record.
Marc:Thank you, Mark.
Marc:Nice seeing you.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:It always amazes me when performers come in here and just knock it, just kill it with the one take business.
Marc:Man, I can't get through a whole song, but I'm not a professional musician.
Marc:I don't do it for a living.
Marc:When they lock in, especially Amy, and this happened twice, when she locks in, it's like, oh my God, I'm just sitting here just listening, trying to not look directly at her in awe of the amazing sound and singing.
Marc:She's great.
Marc:The new record is called Mental Illness.
Marc:So here we go.
Marc:This is it.
Marc:Anne Hathaway came over here
Marc:and sat in here right over there the new movie that she's in is a colossal it's now playing in new york in la it opens in theaters across the country this friday april 14th and um i think i kept it together during this interview that i'll preface it with that and that i i think she's great for real all right this is me and anne hathaway
Marc:I mean, I know Glendale.
Marc:I've worked in Glendale.
Marc:I've been to Glendale.
Marc:I go to Glendale sometimes.
Marc:There's parts of Glendale I like, but I don't know if I would just blanketly say, I like Glendale.
Guest:What sort of things do you blanketly like?
Marc:Um...
Marc:like geographically sure i like northern california i can go blanket on northern california generally speaking washington state along the coast i like new mexico why am i talking so much what about you
Guest:Uh, I like Northern California.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:As well.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Um, okay.
Guest:I've got a blanket one, the ocean.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Blanket.
Guest:Love the ocean.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I, I, I don't think I could live without it, but I don't find myself going there much.
Marc:Do you find yourself like how long you lived in LA?
Guest:Off and on since I was 16.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Do you take the day and go, I'm going to the ocean?
Guest:Well, I can't in LA because I'm extremely pale.
Guest:And the amount of stuff you have to bring with you is just irritating.
Guest:What about the trip itself?
Guest:The trip itself is irritating.
Guest:But when I'm on the East Coast, I make it a point to go to the beach a lot.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Like Long Beach or Asbury Park?
Guest:Asbury Park I've been to.
Guest:But I go to Cape May, New Jersey.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Well, you're like Jersey girl, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I was born in Brooklyn, but raised in New Jersey.
Marc:New Jersey.
Marc:I'm born in New Jersey.
Guest:Where?
Marc:Jersey City.
Guest:I love having Jersey in common with people.
Guest:I'm from Milburn.
Marc:I'm trying to think where Milburn is because I got out at like six, but my grandparents- That's when I got in.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:My mom's family, Pompton Lakes, which is by Wayne and Morris County.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I played soccer against all of those towns.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Were you a big soccer player?
Yeah.
Guest:growing up i mean i wasn't very i was uh exceptionally mediocre but uh but i did play a lot yeah yeah my dad um my dad worked really hard to make you a boy clearly um he succeeded it's like a little bit but uh no he worked really hard as a lawyer in manhattan and i talked to him about it recently and he said i made a choice as a lawyer uh that whatever it meant for my career i was always going to be home on the weekends
Guest:And the best way for him to spend time with all of us because it was me and my two brothers was through soccer.
Guest:And he would ref our games.
Guest:Sometimes he was our coach.
Guest:He was just an involved parent.
Guest:But I don't know that it's something I would have chosen if my older brother hadn't.
Guest:My older brother is really good at it.
Guest:Still?
Guest:I don't know that it's something I would.
Guest:He doesn't play as much anymore because he is a kid.
Marc:Right.
Guest:But before he had a kid, he was playing in like a grown-up league.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:So it stuck with him?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like those dudes who play hockey?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Do you play a sport?
Marc:No.
Guest:No.
Marc:I think I'm physical enough.
Marc:I think I can handle it.
Marc:But I'm not great with competition.
Marc:I don't like to lose.
Marc:And everything's very life and death for me.
Marc:I know.
Marc:You too?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It's really immature, but I'd almost rather forfeit the game than go through the humiliation.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I've gotten to a place where I can play parlor games at parties.
Guest:I'm no longer an unpleasant charades player, but I'm a brutally- You mean one that talks?
Guest:That's not how you play.
No.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:I think I've made friends with my competitiveness.
Guest:Oh, but deep down, it's savage.
Marc:Yeah, it's good to be competitive, but at some point, it's important to learn the lesson of losing like a person.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:That it doesn't indicate anything about your being if you lose.
Guest:You're right.
Guest:I remember, you know, going back to soccer for a second, like losing a game and crying.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I think that I've talked about this with other people and I don't have kids, but I think that the most important thing you could teach them is how to lose with some dignity so they can at least enjoy life.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And also, you know, because I'm talking about myself, I can say this.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I was crying because I thought it reflected on me.
Guest:And so rather than think about my teammates, I was thinking about myself.
Guest:It's a pretty narcissistic thing to do.
Marc:Well, right.
Marc:As long as it wasn't like I did it, I'm the one that lost the game.
Guest:I could create that narrative, though.
Marc:Oh, right.
Guest:I was a pretty self-absorbed teenager.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Shockingly.
Marc:Not anymore, though.
Guest:For a teenager.
Guest:I mean, I have moments.
Guest:But I'm a parent now, so I feel like I can't.
Guest:That self-absorption doesn't really have room in my life.
Marc:uh-huh how's that going being a parent being less self-absorbed i mean like i said i got moments you're like a new parent i'm a new parent yeah like a year old or something wow so you're like in it this is a whole new world when did you shoot that movie like right after you had a kid uh while i was pregnant four months pregnant when we made this wow that's crazy
Guest:Yeah, it was it was it was I was really happy.
Guest:The reaction my director had.
Marc:What did he say?
Guest:Well, because I called him and and he said, you know, oh, my gosh, this is amazing.
Guest:He spent five minutes just just being happy for me.
Guest:And then he went, oh, wait a minute.
Guest:Does that what does that mean for the film?
Guest:Can you can you do it?
Guest:And I said, well, I'd like I'd like to do it if you'll have the sweaters you'll be wearing.
Guest:Well, and he said, your characters are drunk.
Guest:You're bloated.
Guest:It's perfect.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And it actually does work.
Marc:It does read that way.
Guest:And it was fun.
Guest:I ate so many muffins.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Because you're feeding the kid, too.
Marc:I think that's one of the fun parts of being pregnant, right?
Guest:Absolutely.
Marc:But this movie, I watched it on my TV.
Marc:I plugged my computer into the TV.
Marc:Old school.
Marc:Now I have Apple TV, though.
Marc:You can just do it for the button.
Marc:But nonetheless, I watched it, which is good, right?
Yeah.
Marc:that you watched it yeah i'm so relieved it did cross my mind coming over here how difficult it would be to talk about it well it's difficult to talk about anyway but but don't you do people do that though because there's times where i've had people in that have done a lot of things like i can't say i've watched all your movies but as i'll reveal i'm i'm a pretty big fan so to the to the point where it it got a little awkward but you don't even know about it
Marc:OK, but this movie is one of those movies.
Marc:It reminded me a little like when I saw Unbreakable, where there's something more to what you're seeing.
Marc:And I couldn't really put it together until after.
Marc:And I think it runs deeper than you're going to get just from watching it passively.
Guest:I would agree with that.
Guest:And you can watch it passively.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:I did.
Marc:And then there was that sort of thing where it's like, well, that's pretty good.
Marc:That's a nice twist.
Marc:That's worth waiting for.
Marc:The big twist at the end.
Marc:How is that going to resolve itself?
Marc:Oh, holy shit.
Marc:She went there to do that.
Marc:So, see how I did that?
Marc:Didn't give away anything.
Guest:I'm breathing a lot easier now.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:But then, like, in thinking about it and then talking to people about it, because it is a peculiar...
Guest:device i mean like this the narrative device is like where the fuck did that come from yeah now when you read that what were the discussions you had with uh the director and writer it was just a love fest i just i i didn't i know i should have had a a a more rigorous process for a vetting process or something but i was just so in i was just what was it about it
Guest:just just what you said like the where the fuck did that come from yeah quality to it yeah i felt so refreshed by the end of it um it made me laugh and it was and it reminded me of the sort of movies that i dreamed of making when i when i started and you know i don't want to complain about my career it's been amazing yeah but i i've sometimes found myself in films that i'm just like oh i would have seen this but i don't know that i would have been first in line to see this oh yeah you know
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And this one is something that it just, I felt it really represented my personal sensibilities, the movies that I like.
Guest:I don't need movies to make sense for them to be enjoyable to me.
Guest:And the fact that this one did make sense, that there was a thread that went through it, and it was so creatively ambitious.
Guest:And yeah, I just, everything about it, I loved.
Guest:I loved her.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It must have been mind-blowing to read that thing.
Marc:With that moment where you're like, what?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Wait, what?
Marc:I'm in the playground and what's happening?
Guest:That aspect of it was so much fun to that.
Guest:That was one of the things that drew me in because, you know, when you're a kid and you don't know that you want to be an actor, like as a thought, you're not thinking, what is my career path?
Guest:Right.
Guest:But you are on the playground and you do see cities around you and you do see imaginary villains and they do have capes and you do have to figure out how to get that stack of boulders to fall on them.
Guest:And you see all of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I it was so making this was so much fun because I got to go to a playground and do that again.
Marc:But what it implies about the the strange sort of anonymous, you know, bordering on cowardice of having personalities online, out in the world, doing destructive things that the metaphor, it didn't resonate till afterwards.
Marc:And I think it's in there.
Marc:Do you?
Marc:Yeah, you do.
Guest:For sure.
Marc:Did you have those kind of conversations with the filmmaker?
Marc:About what it implied?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Not just what it implied, what each of our experiences had been at the hands of the internet.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:So that was a real active conversation.
Guest:Yeah, he wrote it because he'd experienced some internet hate over something he'd either said or declared.
Marc:What's his name?
Marc:Nacho.
Marc:Nacho Vigilando.
Guest:It doesn't sound like I just made that up.
Marc:What are his other movies?
Guest:Time Crimes.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:He made a film called Extraterrestrial.
Guest:And on iTunes, I believe you can buy a bundle of his short films called Confetti of the Mind.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And those were what convinced... Because I read the script and I loved it.
Guest:And I thought, wow, this is, you know, like I said, so ambitious.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But can he pull it off?
Guest:Because that's a really important thing.
Guest:And some of his short films look like it was just him, a buddy, an iPhone, and an afternoon.
Guest:And they're great.
Guest:And they're clever.
Guest:And they're entertaining.
Guest:And they're screamingly funny.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you had a conversation about internet, cowardice, and hate.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:I mean, more.
Marc:I say cowardice because usually it's anonymous.
Yeah.
Guest:You know, it's I don't remember which one, but one of the guys who one of the creators of the Internet said if we had had any idea where this was going to go, we never would have made it anonymous.
Guest:And I think seeing it, I can see why seeing all this happened.
Guest:And, you know, I have my own experience with it.
Guest:And I can't help but think that we're all growing up together in this moment and we've never quite had anything like this, the responsibility, the access, the protection, the anonymity, that ability to let our id run as unchecked as we want it to go.
Guest:We've never had that before.
Guest:And we're actually having a real conversation about it.
Guest:People's reactions are genuine.
Guest:People that are into it, people who get high off of hurting other people.
Guest:It was the feeling that I had about it culturally going into my conversation with the director, which we had.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's weird because what happens, the reason why people a lot of times get attacked, and I was thinking about this today.
Marc:that who was i talking to i just did rupaul's podcast i went over there just earlier today and he says hi and he said oh my god okay i'm just dying yeah and he said he said ask her about the liza judy thing that i heard that might happen because she's so like them oh and what about those
Guest:Well, first of all, that's very, very elevated company, and it might happen.
Marc:Really?
Guest:It might happen.
Marc:What's the angle?
Guest:There's a script underway.
Guest:I can't tell you.
Guest:It's too good.
Marc:It's too good.
Guest:Well, who are you going to play?
Guest:Judy.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Judy.
Marc:And you love her?
Guest:Oh my God, yes.
Guest:Oh my gosh, yes.
Guest:I adore her.
Guest:I think she's so brave.
Guest:I think she was a woman who, I think if Judy Garland lived today, we would have seen a very different version of her.
Guest:No less of the talent, no less of the feeling.
Guest:But I think that both Judy Garland and Marilyn Monroe and a few other women from that period, I thought they were emotional geniuses totally ahead of their time.
Guest:When you look at their level of inclusivity, they didn't particularly care about gender.
Guest:They didn't care about sexuality.
Guest:They just loved everybody.
Guest:They just wanted to be loved, and so they loved everybody.
Marc:So that was the thing that did it.
Marc:It's a vulnerability almost.
Guest:Certainly.
Guest:I mean, Judy Garland was so achingly vulnerable and also so powerful and so raw.
Guest:I don't know if you've seen A Star is Born lately.
Marc:I haven't seen it lately.
Guest:There's this scene in it where it's one take and she's like a three or a four minute monologue and she's talking about her husband in the film who's...
Guest:who's an alcoholic and you have to remember like this is before there were rehabs this is before the term addict i think even existed i mean you know people were just poking around in the dark trying to make sense of these things she likes to have a good time that's what they called addicts
Guest:That's so dark.
Guest:Speaking of dark.
Guest:And she has this monologue.
Guest:And I saw behind the scenes of the making of thing.
Guest:And George Cougar, I think, was the director.
Guest:And he went up to her.
Guest:And it's a monologue about addiction, but without being called about addiction.
Guest:And he said, you know what this is about.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:And she said, yeah, I do.
Guest:He goes, OK, rolling.
Guest:And she just gives my favorite performance that anyone's ever.
Guest:All due respect to Meryl Streep, who gives like all my other favorite performances.
Guest:It's the best acting I think anyone has ever done in that scene where she goes with it.
Guest:And then they're like, we're ready for you on set.
Guest:And she like leaves the shot and goes out into the background of another shot and just starts singing and dancing.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:Show business.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:And that level of strength and the stories about her.
Guest:This one won't be in the movie, but she was in so much pain and she needed help so badly.
Guest:And there are people around her who just didn't have it within themselves to give her that space.
Guest:And I don't know if it was greed or fear or both or what.
Marc:Denial.
Guest:Maybe.
Guest:Yeah, that's a really strong one, too.
Guest:A very big possibility.
Guest:But she tried to commit suicide.
Guest:They pull her out of the hospital because she had a show.
Guest:She's saying she's begging them not to take her with her.
Guest:She's saying, I need a rest.
Guest:I need a break.
Guest:Don't do this.
Guest:Don't do this.
Guest:Don't do this.
Guest:And they're saying, Judy, you're going on.
Guest:Her mother was in the car with her.
Guest:And then finally, she asks for a mirror.
Guest:Now, I must say, this is secondhand.
Guest:I read this in a book, so apologies to her children if this is not true.
Guest:But they give her the mirror so she can do her makeup, and she takes the mirror, and she smashes it and grabs a shard of glass and starts cutting her face.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Because she didn't want to go on.
Guest:And they got a doctor to the theater who stitched her up, and they covered it with her hair, and she went out and she did a show.
Marc:How long was that before she died?
Guest:20 years?
Marc:God, to live in that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so one of the things I want to do, by the way, I feel like I have to say this because I've just told a few tragic stories.
Guest:I'm falling into the habit that people have with her, which is to focus on the aspects of her life