Episode 800 - Jeff Ross
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucksters?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuckadelics?
Marc:What the fucking avians?
Marc:What the fuckericans?
Marc:What the fucktuckians?
Marc:What the fuckminsterfullers?
Marc:What the fuckleberry fins?
Marc:And the list goes on.
Marc:I can't go through it all, but I thought I'd do a little more than usual at the beginning to make this episode a bit special because it is a marker for
Marc:But after a certain point, markers, as good as they are, what are you going to do?
Marc:We're all getting older, right?
Marc:And the show today is the 800th, 800th episode of WTF.
Marc:800 episodes.
Marc:Astounding.
Marc:Astounding.
Marc:We do we do different.
Marc:We've done different things at these milestones.
Marc:And as as the time goes on, they become, you know, they just become another day.
Marc:But you do want to to market because it is sort of an astounding thing.
Marc:Let's get into what we're doing here today in a second.
Marc:Let me first get out that I've got a few tour dates coming out, and I always like to have you guys and gals, you people, you folks.
Marc:I like you to come.
Marc:I'm going to be in Boulder.
Marc:Colorado tomorrow night at the Boulder Theater.
Marc:I'll be at the Paramount Theater on Saturday in Denver, Colorado.
Marc:The Aladdin Theater in Portland on April 21st and 22nd.
Marc:They added a late show in Portland on the 22nd on the Saturday.
Marc:I believe there's still some tickets for that left.
Marc:Milwaukee.
Marc:That needs a little love.
Marc:Come on, Milwaukee.
Marc:April 27th at the Pabst.
Marc:The Orpheum in Madison, Wisconsin.
Marc:Let's go, Midwest.
Marc:all right april 28th the pantages theater i'll be shooting my special for netflix on april 29th on april 29th in minneapolis there's two shows uh i believe those are selling well but that second show let's go may 12th philadelphia at the merriam theater and may 13th
Marc:dc at the warner theater not many tickets left for that dc show and the phillies going good they're all going really good but that one man that one in milwaukee what is it what i do to you milwaukee huh where we at 800 fucking episodes that is crazy today on the show my guest is jeff ross
Marc:And that's for a reason.
Marc:And I'll tell you what it is.
Marc:Jeff Ross was actually the very first guest on WTF.
Marc:It was a different show then.
Marc:Now, I would like to tell you that as of today, WTF has been downloaded more than 330 million times.
Marc:That's a lot of times.
Marc:That's a lot of downloads, man.
Marc:The first episode we did...
Marc:was recorded at the end of August in 2009, and we posted it on September 1st, 2009.
Marc:Now, where we were at...
Marc:We had hijacked the studio at the Old Air America.
Marc:Me and my producer and business partner, Brendan McDonald, were out of work because they canceled the streaming video show we were doing on there.
Marc:So we wanted to throw something together.
Marc:And we had done radio together.
Marc:Me and Brendan had been working together in some form or another since 2004.
Marc:So we were like, let's figure out this podcast thing.
Marc:Now...
Marc:We didn't really have a plan at the beginning.
Marc:Not unlike I enter most conversations, there was no plan for the show other than we wanted to feel it out, figure something out.
Marc:There were three segments on the first episode.
Marc:There was a story about feeling morally justified, stealing Stevia from Whole Foods, which also became an essay in my book.
Marc:We talked to Jeff Ross, who was on the phone, and we did a WTF moment at a Ralph Lauren store.
Marc:Now, the original intention of the show was for it to have a variety of segments, which we did for the first few dozen episodes.
Marc:There was some movie talk.
Marc:There was some conversations with my father.
Marc:It was a kind of a variety show to a degree, but there was this umbrella idea of
Marc:of what the fuck, you know, the most important philosophical question is not the meaning of life, it's what the fuck, and it was really, that was the spirit that ran through the thing, now Jeff ended up being our first guest, I, because,
Marc:Not unlike now, there were certain guests, and at that time we had no track record, who were out doing things, and we could get them.
Marc:And I knew I wanted to talk to comics.
Marc:I liked comics.
Marc:I was a comic.
Marc:I am a comic.
Marc:I know how to talk to comics.
Marc:We're all of the same community.
Marc:But we had put a few in the can, these shorter conversations, with I think Patton was on the phone over his book, I think John Oliver.
Marc:And we had those in the can, and we had some things to work with to put together the first show.
Marc:Maybe I should play this thing because because this was interesting listening back to this show, because obviously the show became a very different thing over time.
Marc:You know, once I got out here, we we had sort of foregone the multi segment format.
Marc:No more phone interviews.
Marc:I can't stand doing phone interviews.
Marc:Rare occasions where a friend of mine needs to plug something.
Marc:For most of the hundreds of episodes, there's really no phone interviews.
Marc:Face-to-face was what I wanted to do.
Marc:At the beginning, for a while, we had a third part to the show, a third segment.
Marc:That was an interview with a guest that may or may not be real.
Marc:And it was more to work with improvisers and do that kind of thing and improvise.
Marc:But then it sort of evolved into...
Marc:what it's become, which is a candid, connected, genuine conversation as best I can do with somebody.
Marc:But what was interesting in listening to this first episode was that we pulled this clip.
Marc:Now, I don't know that there was ever a mission statement
Marc:But but but this was as close as I could find to it in this first show.
Marc:Listen to this.
Marc:I just felt like it was time to do this.
Marc:It was time to focus.
Marc:It was time to to ask these questions about mundane things, about political things, about personal things.
Marc:And just getting out there again.
Marc:I know a lot of you have listened to me in many different forms over the years.
Marc:And I think this will be the freest of all of them.
Marc:This will be the most unfiltered and the most representative of where I'm at.
Marc:And I'll try to keep it as personal as possible.
Marc:And also...
Marc:I just don't know what the fuck half the time.
Marc:So I hopefully, you know, through this show and through hanging out with you people and my friends and some comedians, we're going to have Jeff Ross on here in just a bit.
Marc:So you heard that the amazing thing about that is all of that remains pretty true, including the fact that we're going to have Jeff Ross on in just a bit here.
Marc:But what sort of evolved in the show is we were never rigid about the format.
Marc:We basically let things evolve.
Marc:We always knew why we were doing it.
Marc:Because of where I was at in my life and because we were hungry and wanting to do something, it wasn't so much ambition, it was a compulsion.
Marc:We had this need to create a connection.
Marc:And the true evolution was realizing the true connection happening during intimate, empathetic conversation.
Marc:And that's really like you'll hear that's ultimately the difference between Jeff, you know, in show number one and Jeff in show 800.
Marc:He never got his full hour interview.
Marc:This is his real WTF interview, the interview that that the show evolved into what we do here was a great conversation.
Marc:And.
Marc:It was interesting because at the beginning, you know, I was calling my friends so we could have some funny conversation.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, that was it.
Marc:You know, you get some laughs.
Marc:You can always count on a comedian.
Marc:I mean, I knew that from doing radio when I did radio, both as a host of a radio show.
Marc:And as somebody who appeared on radio, when the comic walked in, you're like, if this guy's on his game, you know, my job is going to be easier.
Marc:So when I'm a guest on a radio show, I always try to show up, be present, be funny, go with the flow.
Marc:And when I had people on my radio show, you were hoping for the same thing.
Marc:Sometimes people shit the bed, but I knew comics were dependable.
Marc:But what I didn't understand about me and about comedians was that
Marc:It's one thing to turn to a comic to get some laughs and good feelings.
Marc:The other thing is turning that comic into a person to find out more about who he is.
Marc:And what I learned over time, and if you'll listen to the first many episodes in talking about comics, was that we're very well-equipped, most of us comics, to have conversations about anything because that's what we do.
Marc:We sit and think about things, about everything, and we live our weird lives.
Marc:that are outside of the mainstream.
Marc:For the most part, I would say for all of it, we're a bunch of gypsies and rogues and strange people, perverts, heavy hearted, depressives, hyperactive, compulsive, needy, funny, loving, sensitive, all the good things too.
Marc:A lot of times I forget to compliment the bad list with the good list.
Marc:And it's not, it's just human.
Marc:Comics were my entry into being a person who is empathetic in conversation, who enjoyed listening to people.
Marc:I mean, I hadn't really had that since I was a kid because I'd gotten cynical.
Marc:And just to really learn things about not only people, but about life.
Marc:And the difference between number one and 800 is profound, but the evolution makes perfect sense in that we honored that original idea.
Marc:But to mark this part of the evolution by talking to Jeff.
Marc:Jeff, who is, you know, really in terms of personality and being and comedic style is a kind of ever present voice in comedy since the beginning of comedy in a way.
Marc:And I talked to him a little bit about that, but.
Marc:Before I go into this conversation, I do want to say thank you all.
Marc:And thank you to everybody who's new, to everybody who's been through it with me.
Marc:Thank you for hanging out.
Marc:We were able to really make something here and to continue to make something.
Marc:And every time I come into this garage, no matter how much I'm full of anxiety or panic or dread or whatever's going on in my life or whether it's
Marc:relative to the person i'm about to talk to because i don't know what's going to happen or whether it's relative to the world outside or to something i have going on in my life that's making me crazy as soon as someone comes in here and sits down in front of me in that orange chair across the way and i connect and we start talking all that other stuff
Marc:all that other stuff goes away and i'm locked in and i'm listening and i'm engaged with another human being and i'm engaged with you guys out there you people out there i know that you're listening in and that what's happening is something profoundly human and profoundly good and profoundly necessary especially in the culture we live in today where these kind of connections aren't made
Marc:as much as they should, if at all, on a day-to-day basis.
Marc:As you know, if I don't talk to someone in here a couple times a week, I start to get squirrely and cranky and aggravated and I need to do that thing that we all need to do effortlessly is, hey man, how's it going?
Marc:What's up?
Marc:I'm okay, not really.
Marc:Really, where have you been?
Marc:What happened there?
Marc:How's everything at home?
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:That.
Marc:You gotta do that.
Marc:And you gotta listen.
Marc:Sometimes all it takes to show up for somebody else in a very deep and real way is to listen.
Marc:It's important.
Marc:Doesn't take much to be there for other people most of the time.
Marc:Thank you very much for listening.
Marc:This is me and Jeff Ross.
Marc:Finally, he gets his full WTF treatment 800 episodes later after being in the bathtub on the first episode talking to me from the Bellagio Hotel.
Marc:This is me and Jeff just a couple of days ago.
Marc:Jeff Ross.
Marc:Hi, bud.
Marc:It's good to see you, man.
Marc:This is cool.
Guest:I can't believe you've never been here.
Guest:The legendary garage.
Guest:I know, but you've never been here.
Guest:Congratulations, man.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:800 episodes.
Marc:This is it.
Marc:Like, you know, the idea was you were on the first episode, so why not be on the last?
Marc:But who the hell knows when that's going to happen?
Marc:So we'll put you on the 800.
Guest:The real issue isn't how you managed 800 episodes.
Guest:It's how you managed to stop talking and long enough to upload them.
Marc:What is it, a roast now?
Marc:Is that what we're gonna do?
Guest:800 episodes, buddy.
Marc:Can you believe it, man?
Guest:It's really incredible.
Marc:I went to your Wikipedia page, and the first thing on your credits is you did the first episode of the WTF podcast, September 1st, 2009.
Marc:That's a credit.
Marc:I was in a bathtub at the Borgata Casino.
Marc:I remember.
Marc:I don't remember what we talked about.
Marc:It was only like 20 minutes.
Marc:It was before the show was like it is now.
Marc:yeah no we talked about dancing with the stars i think is that what you were doing then yeah or just done in the middle of it but but it wasn't like a like a real w you know wtf interview wasn't the hour sit down i can't believe it's been so long dude i don't know anybody maybe ace was doing a podcast before you but i don't know anybody else who's really into that but the weird thing is i've known you i feel like since we were children yeah
Marc:Do you remember that picture you tweeted out the other day?
Marc:It was me and you and Todd and Louie and Moon.
Marc:Everybody with hair.
Marc:I remember you from even further back than that.
Marc:Let's just put it in perspective.
Marc:Did I ever resent you?
Marc:How did I feel about you?
Marc:Let's go real classic Marin conversation.
Marc:I can't believe I'm talking about myself in the third person.
Marc:I remember you were getting spots at Catch a Rising Star before most of us, before me or Todd.
Marc:You had sort of a mullet-y, Jew-y, curly thing, but it was definitely mullet-y.
Marc:You always wore a jean jacket, and your name was Jeff Lifshultz.
Marc:And if I recall correctly, you had buttons on that fucking jacket.
Marc:Most jackets have buttons.
Marc:No, I mean like pins.
Marc:Did you have pins?
Marc:Oh, that sounds like something I could have had.
Marc:You don't remember?
Marc:Come on.
Guest:I mean, I wore weird stuff back then.
Guest:I would wear bracelets and clogs and, you know, I was a little weird.
Marc:No, but this was before you were a hippie, you know, before that period.
Guest:I think you might have called me Liv Schultz, but I was probably at that point.
Guest:performing.
Guest:When did you start, man?
Guest:I remember you as Jeff Lipschel.
Guest:My first time on stage was exactly April 1st, 1989.
Guest:I wouldn't have met you that first year.
Marc:No, because I was in New York.
Marc:I was there.
Marc:I was on the Lower East Side starting 89.
Marc:I moved down from Boston and I was trying to get in.
Marc:So I was at the Boston Comedy Club in 89.
Guest:Then you were probably doing spots, and I was probably an open mic-er trying to get on the shows you were on.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I just remember you getting past a catch pretty early.
Guest:That is a great memory.
Guest:That is something that happened.
Guest:I got past there before anywhere else, which was usually people's last club for some reason.
Guest:It was my first pass.
Guest:I never really got past there.
Guest:And I remember bringing like Louis a present.
Guest:Louis Ferranda.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:From Catch a Rising Star.
Guest:He gave me my first $20 in the business.
Guest:He put me up at the end of the night.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And he saw something in me that I didn't yet see in myself.
Marc:Yeah, I didn't see it.
Guest:No, I mean, you know, I don't hold a grudge against people who didn't see it in the beginning.
Guest:You can.
Guest:I always tell comics that.
Guest:Like, you get better.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:No one has time for somebody who's not funny.
Marc:I remember when you got funny.
Marc:I remember when Todd got funny.
Marc:I remember when I got funny.
Marc:It was just like four years ago.
Marc:It happened very late.
Marc:Those early days, man.
Marc:You only start out once, right?
Marc:But I remember, you remember we used to go over to the Ukrainian place, to Kiev?
Guest:I still do.
Guest:Oh, well, not to Kiev, but Veselka's there.
Marc:I go to Veselka's too.
Marc:But like the Kiev was sort of the place.
Marc:It was like me and you and Louie and Todd and Sarah and Attell.
Marc:That was like the joint.
Marc:It was kind of dirty, not as good as a Veselka.
Marc:But I don't think the Veselka was open 24 hours at that time.
Marc:We would commiserate.
Marc:Sure, yeah.
Guest:Miserable commiserate.
Guest:Is that part of that word?
Marc:Sure, and I would say things like, how'd you get into catch?
Marc:Why'd you get past?
Guest:I brought a vest for Louis.
Guest:I bought him a present.
Guest:Did you?
Guest:And then when my grandfather died, he gave me like a little pep talk.
Guest:He's like, now it's time for you.
Guest:You got to think about you for a little while.
Guest:Because I was taking care of my grandfather in New Jersey.
You did?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I thought about those days recently because they were like cutting funding for Meals on Wheels.
Guest:And I remember taking the bus into New York every day from New Jersey and Meals on Wheels would check in on my grandpa.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They'd bring him a hot meal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And make sure he's alive for the next 12 hours while I was trying to find work in New York, trying to get on stage, trying to start my life.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:23, 24.
Guest:So you grew up in Jersey?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What part?
Guest:Newark, Union, and Springfield.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:And you got like a sister, right?
Guest:I kind of have bits and pieces.
Guest:My sister Robin.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's a special ed teacher up in Washington State.
Guest:So what were you doing in there?
Guest:What kind of family situation?
Guest:What did your old man do?
Guest:My dad, my grandfather, my uncles, everyone in my family was a caterer.
Guest:Everyone.
Guest:My great-grandmother Rose, who I'm technically named after, Ross,
Guest:was a very rare female business owner back in the 40s and 50s.
Guest:Clinton Manor caterers.
Guest:Clinton Manor.
Guest:I worked there every summer.
Guest:I worked there every weekend all through junior high and high school and even parts of college.
Guest:She owned that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they'd do events.
Guest:They would do weddings and bar mitzvahs and trade shows and that kind of thing.
Guest:Kosher.
Guest:Oh, it was kosher.
Guest:And back when people were having big kosher weddings.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And then I worked in the coat room as a kid and then made meatballs and wound up feeding the help and working in the parking lot.
Guest:And once I got to college, I was like, I don't think I'm going to be a caterer.
Guest:I think I'm going to try something else.
Marc:You're going to break the tradition?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So was your dad the last one?
Marc:My dad and my cousin.
Marc:Of the Liff Schultz caterers?
Guest:Well, my dad passed away.
Guest:It basically became my cousin's, and his heart wasn't in it, really.
Guest:And it kind of fell off.
Marc:I remember you telling me about your dad passing away.
Marc:Because I remember the one time we had this conversation.
Marc:I can't remember.
Marc:It must have been down in front of the Boston.
Marc:I think I was all worked up because I didn't understand.
Marc:You were driving some fancy car, like a Dodge Viper, maybe.
Yeah.
Marc:What a memory.
Marc:Is that true?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But, all right, so when did your dad pass away?
Guest:My dad, when I was in high school, in college.
Guest:What happened?
Guest:Yeah, he did cocaine.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Living the life?
Guest:He had a good time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Had a cerebral hemorrhage.
Guest:Was in a coma for a few days.
Guest:Came home from BU, and, you know, that was it.
Guest:That was it?
Guest:And your mom's been gone for a while, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She'd already been gone five years.
Guest:Wow, man.
Guest:So you were kind of just you and your sis, huh?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Still is.
Guest:We have a good family and we're okay.
Guest:We all get together quite often.
Guest:I just got a beach house at the Jersey Shore for a couple weeks this summer.
Guest:Really?
Guest:25 of us will pile into that.
Marc:The cousins and everything?
Guest:Aunt and uncle and cousins and...
Marc:y'all so tight that's great we do it for real do you feel connected to jersey i mean like you're i feel connected to the people i don't know if i could feel connected to the state right but you feel your jersey yeah yeah like when you were when you were in high school you were you a bruce guy of course yeah
Guest:of course but i feel like i would have been a bruce guy no matter where i was from or wherever he was from i think it was it was in the stars i learned a lot about performing i think watching those early bruce shows you know how he goes fast and then he goes slow then he gets two fast ones and he goes slow for what well what did you learn exactly just showmanship just to stay slow
Guest:Just to mix it up and keep the audience surprised and the intimacy, even in a big theater like that.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And just that you could stay true to yourself.
Guest:And we all aspire to have that kind of impact on their audience.
Marc:I think that's a good observation.
Marc:I think him in particular is unique to that himself.
Marc:It feels earnest.
Marc:It feels real.
Marc:You feel special to be there.
Marc:And he really turns it out.
Marc:It took me a long time to appreciate it.
Marc:I think I appreciated it.
Marc:More now because I talk to him.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:It was a great interview.
Guest:And he also talked, you talked about how, you know, you can open up on stage where maybe you can't open up off stage so easy.
Guest:Yeah, absolutely.
Guest:And that was a good breakthrough.
Guest:And I think that's why a lot of us get drawn to the stage.
Marc:It's weird, right?
Marc:You know, our lives off stage are just a mess.
Marc:And then on stage, you can, maybe you're not.
Marc:You always seem kind of chipper.
Marc:I'm doing okay.
Yeah.
Marc:I had my moments.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:What are they like?
Marc:Are they crying moments or yelling moments?
Guest:I think the worst I ever got was probably a year ago.
Guest:I came home from a road gig and I just wasn't happy for some reason.
Guest:And I grabbed a baseball bat and just started slamming the bed.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Beating my bed.
Guest:You didn't want to risk breaking anything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's good.
Guest:Did it feel good?
Guest:It felt cathartic.
Marc:yeah but i don't i think for pretty much i'm pretty even-tempered yeah i feel that from you so you you you grow up in jersey you're doing the catering now we're there did you see stand-up at the catering hall where did you see your first stand-up like who who were your guys early i had no idea i didn't know what any of that was you didn't know the jew comics no i heard their voices on johnny carson because my parents would watch it and i'd be upstairs trying to listen huh
Guest:but I didn't know from the old-time comics.
Marc:Because I was so into them when I was a kid, and you're only a couple years younger than me.
Marc:I would watch Buddy Hackett and Rickles, all the guys that you got to know later, which I envy, but they were the guys I watched when I was a kid, and I loved them.
Marc:Jackie Vernon.
Guest:Yeah, I didn't know until later.
Guest:And everyone said, well, you must have been influenced by them.
Guest:It wasn't.
Guest:It wasn't like that for me.
Guest:I was influenced by the rock star comics.
Guest:Eddie Murphy, Blues Brothers, Steve Martin, Cheech and Chong.
Guest:I didn't even know that that was comedy.
Guest:I just thought that was the same as... I bought their albums the same way I bought Kiss or Boston or stuff like that.
Guest:So I didn't even...
Guest:I didn't know about the Tuxedo comics until I was meeting them.
Marc:But you weren't also, you didn't know about the culture of stand-up.
Marc:You didn't really acknowledge that there were this world of stand-ups.
Guest:No, I had no idea.
Guest:It was alien to me.
Guest:I thought to be a comic, I would have to be like the guys I'd seen pictures of or on Johnny Carson, like Hackett, Rickles, those guys.
Guest:But I didn't feel a connection to them until later.
Guest:But you didn't know their work even.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I also, it's weird, like people wonder about that because of the roasts and did you know those guys?
Guest:It was more like I felt like I'd met guys I should have known my whole life.
Marc:Well, I mean, I feel that too about you, you know, because I remember when we were coming up in the late 80s and early 90s,
Marc:everybody had their own unique thing and you weren't you weren't really doing insult comedy at all no you were doing observational stuff kind of long formish yeah yeah stories and poems and well the poems came later though yeah that was later dude yeah wasn't it i mean it was just straight up observational comedy right at a very deliberately slow pace
Guest:You know, I didn't know what I was doing.
Guest:I was a film major in college and a political science minor trying to go.
Guest:At BU?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Were we there together?
Guest:No.
Guest:You're a little bit ahead of me maybe.
Guest:But you know, I was still running the radio station.
Guest:I was a music director and a DJ.
Guest:At BU?
Guest:Played in a punk band.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I became a political science minor and I went to Russia with my class.
Guest:Political science?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What'd you do in Russia?
Guest:uh i wound up uh looking around it was during the refusenix you know i remember like meeting with refusenix and sneaking their art back to america thinking i was doing something really cool and special what'd you bring back just these guys you know there was a real problem for artists and jews were scared i remember and i just remember like going to a couple houses and poking around and meeting people and
Guest:I was a kid, but I was also curious and also fearless.
Guest:My dad had just died.
Guest:I had nothing to do that Christmas.
Guest:My sister was with her friends for Christmas, so I was like, all right, fuck it.
Guest:I'm going to go to Russia, the Soviet Union, in the winter, and find out about vodka and eggnog and everything else that we were trying to... That was it.
Marc:Everything else.
Marc:Vodka and eggnog and the big list after that.
Guest:I just remember doing those two drinks for the first time in my life.
Guest:I remember it was just super, super exciting to be in a foreign, foreign, foreign country, completely unleashed.
Guest:Didn't have to worry about calling home or disappointing anyone.
Guest:My life became very unhinged in a series of happy accidents after...
Guest:After Russia?
Guest:After death.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You go, all right, well, I guess I can do whatever I want.
Guest:This is kind of crazy.
Guest:No one to tell me this isn't a good idea.
Guest:But I also didn't have the support.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Your grandparents didn't step in or anything?
Guest:They were all gone.
Guest:I had the one grandfather who I...
Guest:really took care of so that is kind of bizarre like you're sort of orphaned at 19 or whatever yeah and you're still not completely grown up right wow i don't know if i ever grew up yeah i'm not sure i did either look at us i know we're doing okay for children it is crazy i do i do think sometimes like i never feel old and i never feel young i always felt this way since i'm 15. you know what i think has something to do with that with us we have no children
Marc:must be part of it i think you know you have children you're like i'm yeah it's happening if they're getting taller i'm getting older right but we're just suspended in some strange non-growth thing you know emotionally or otherwise but all right so when did comedy start so you go to russia you come back a changed man you've drunk you know it's just more like experiences the following year i think i went off to scotland with another college buddy and just seeing the world and
Guest:i knew i wanted to do something different i just didn't know what it was i kept thinking i'm gonna have a weird life i just don't know what it is yeah and i remember like coming out of college i started a production company with my college buddy brian and we were epitome productions making training films and trying to do commercials for like health and beauty aid stores in jersey in new york city
Guest:So it was this weird little... I would take the bus every day.
Guest:I lived in a house I grew up in.
Guest:My grandfather was now living with me, came out of the Bronx to live with me because we were both kind of on our own.
Guest:He was widowed and I was orphaned.
Marc:Was he together?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, cool.
Guest:He was the greatest.
Guest:I'm wearing his ring right now.
Guest:Oh, that's cool.
Guest:It's a bolt from a Nazi submarine that he took apart when he was in the U.S.
Guest:Coast Guard.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Steel bolt that I wear all the time.
Guest:I took off him right when he died.
Guest:Was he one of the caterers or the other side?
Guest:No, he was from the other side of the family.
Guest:He was a construction worker.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Tough guy.
Guest:Very funny, very awesome, my best friend.
Guest:Yeah, you don't hear about tough Jews enough.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:He was the toughest.
Guest:He was a foreman in Bronx construction union, so he had to really pretend.
Guest:He was tough, and he had to even pretend he was tougher than he was to get respect.
Yeah.
Marc:So it always annoys me about the characterization of elites or the Jews run this or that, is that there was that whole generation that he comes from that came over here from Europe or the generation after that.
Marc:There was a bunch of Jewish boxers, construction foremen, plumbers, cops.
Marc:It was a whole...
Marc:They were some tough fucking guys, man.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, you had to be.
Guest:Yeah, to get by.
Guest:Right, he'd get in fights with the Irish guys or something, or he'd have to exert his authority to different groups that were construction workers.
Guest:I just remember him telling me these stories and stuff, and he always had big hands and big arms, and he was tough, tough Jews.
Guest:Yeah, James Caan style.
Guest:My grandfather would give me...
Guest:money for the tolls yeah and a banana take a banana for the ride and i would go into the city and hit the open mics or so wait so that started after the production company what happened we were failing quickly there was a we tried everything we tried a home investment video home video with lewis rukeyser who from wall street week and when he figured out we were 25 he was like i'm just going to steal this idea from them and do it myself and he did and that was very successful for him and then
Marc:And then you knew how, that was your first lesson in show business.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I realized how show business could really fuck me up when he finally died and I was happy.
Guest:Like 20 years later, my friend- But you carried it with you.
Guest:Brian called me up and said, guess who died?
Guest:I'm like, Louis Rukeyser?
Guest:you know and uh i just kept searching and another buddy my pal mark chapin said i'm taking this writing class in new york city comedy stand-up i think you'd be good at it who taught that lee frank lee frank hi lee what happened to lee lee's around just talked to him he's writing on a show right now he's doing great
Guest:Out here?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, that's amazing.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:I remember Lee Frank.
Guest:Great teacher.
Guest:Taught me a lot of cool stuff about stand-up and encouraged me to keep going.
Guest:Because there were the two.
Marc:There was Blakeman and Frank, I guess, who taught the classes.
Marc:I guess so.
Marc:Lee Frank.
Marc:Yeah, great teacher.
Guest:Yeah, I remember him.
Guest:I remember him as a stand-up.
Guest:He told me if it doesn't offend somebody somewhere, it's probably not funny.
Guest:That's pretty good.
Guest:I was like, that's words to live by for a comic.
Guest:i loved it right away i was like wow i get to say whatever i want this is always what i loved about america freedom of speech yeah i was always that kid like drawing swastikas on my notebooks like just doing anything you could to i was like oh it's a free country i can i can do whatever i say whatever i want you just get start hit this just hit this weird memory with me when i was in like second grade and i think i was at hebrew school and i drew hitler
Marc:Pushing buttons is what it is.
Guest:I don't know what I was doing or thinking, but I got turned on by the idea of freedom of speech.
Guest:So when somebody said, you can just go on stage and just talk for five minutes about whatever you want, I thought, well, if I ever do this once,
Guest:on television, I wouldn't care if I ever did it again.
Guest:Just the idea that you can have that platform.
Guest:And then, of course, once I started doing it, I was like, wow, all right, this is a good way to meet girls.
Guest:This is a good way to make money.
Guest:This is a good way to express myself.
Guest:They gave me a social life.
Guest:and immediately, you know, quickly over time.
Guest:Took right to it.
Guest:I took right to it, even though there was a lot of haters telling me I was crazy.
Guest:Like, I still had my production company.
Guest:It was in the Marbridge building on 34th and Broadway.
Guest:It was all shoe retail, shoe wholesalers in that building.
Guest:I remember, like, the guy next door saying, so you guys are closing up your production company.
Guest:Yeah, he goes, what are you going to do?
Guest:I go, well, I've been trying stand-up.
Guest:He goes, oh, well, you'll figure something out.
Guest:He tapped me on the shoulder and wished me luck.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, the family was, like, rolling their eyes.
Guest:But you started doing the open mics.
Guest:Who'd you meet first?
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:I remember Johnny Lampert telling me, don't go to catch.
Guest:They'll never pass you.
Guest:He would give me, like, if you get heckled, say this.
Guest:And he would give me Dangerfield lines.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I think he was sabotaging me.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:So that if I said those, Lewis would go, that's stolen.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, I do think he was.
Guest:I never asked him, but he would be like, that's why, now I know why...
Guest:He'd say, if somebody messes with you, say, now I know why lions eat their young.
Guest:Like, it was like those kind of, I think he was testing me to see if I had ever heard any of this.
Guest:If I hadn't.
Guest:Yeah, but you didn't do it.
Guest:I didn't.
Guest:I kind of caught that it didn't sound right coming out of me.
Guest:Who else was hanging around?
Guest:Well, Todd Barry and I were the two backups.
Guest:At catch.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because Todd used to go up there and sit there, and I would not go up there.
Guest:right that was where i would get on early on and then i broke in downtown stand up new york the boston comedy club who was on the stage of catching like i'm trying to remember oh well that was amazing what what era that was oh well that was like early mario joiner and john stewart was the was the big um closing act he wasn't famous but he was a killer yeah right yeah i remember he would just lay flat on the stage and yell up at the ceiling and he had that dirty denim jacket on and boots and
Guest:He was fearless and he was cool and he was Jewish.
Guest:And I was like, that guy's cool.
Guest:What's his name?
Guest:Oh, it used to be Leibovitz?
Guest:Oh, maybe I can pull off Jeff Ross.
Guest:Let me use my middle name like he did.
Guest:And I was like, okay.
Guest:That was it?
Guest:That's what inspired you?
Guest:It wasn't even a Jewish thing.
Guest:It was more like when I finally got on TV on Star Search a couple years later, they had to use a smaller font to fit Liff Schultz.
Guest:And I was so humiliated about Ed McMahon mispronouncing Liff Schultz three times.
Guest:Every time I won, it was like,
Guest:your challenger, Jeff Lipschitz.
Guest:And I was like, oh.
Guest:And I wasn't strong enough of a comic to not let that stuff bother me.
Guest:Now it's stuff I don't care, but.
Marc:Sure, well, you got tough before I did, I'll tell you that.
Marc:I mean, Moron, Moron, Marin.
Marc:It never ends.
Marc:M-A-R-K, Marin, Mark with a K, moron.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Try lip shits every time.
Marc:Well, you solved that problem.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You changed it like all of them do, like all of those Jews do.
Guest:It wasn't a never a Jewish thing.
Guest:It was always a showbiz.
Guest:If you're going to be in showbiz, I was flying home from Star Search and I said, either I'm going to have to change my stage name or my entire family is going to have to change their last name.
Marc:Amen.
Marc:That was your first TV thing?
Marc:The Star Search?
Marc:Probably, yeah.
Marc:And that was... Okay, so you're kicking around with Stewart.
Marc:This is what?
Marc:In 90... 89, 90.
Guest:Attell was kind of hosting them.
Guest:I remember Reggie McFadden, Sarah Soerman bopping around Third Street, borrowing money from me so she could give it to homeless people.
Guest:It does occur to me, like...
Guest:The jobs, the gigs, the TV shows can come and go, but it's these relationships that sustain us.
Guest:Look how long we know each other.
Marc:Yeah, you know why they sustain us is because we're all selfish and generally the bond remains intact somehow.
Marc:I'm sure you have close friends, but I don't hang out with too many people.
Marc:But every time I see you, I don't think like, oh, what am I going to say to Jeff?
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:You have this community where there's a shorthand to it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like when I see Todd Berry, we used to wander around all day long together and hang out.
Marc:And sometimes I'm sad that we don't hang out more.
Marc:But when we do hang out, I'm like, well, that's enough.
Guest:No, Todd has definitely evolved into a huge pain in the ass.
Guest:So it's much easier to see him once in a while.
Guest:Give him a hug that he doesn't want and move on.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:but i'm always happy just did the roast battle and he killed but he was so hard he's so funny though he is but he's always been i i love him and i love a tell but you know it's like it's just in louis but i see everybody infrequently but it's always good to see him and i never feel like there's a lot of distance but you know well comics if i haven't seen you in a while i don't have to say hi how are you what have you been up to i could just say how's the crowd i like your boots and you know that i'm saying how are you
Marc:Yeah, and I would see you at different times.
Marc:But all right, so you do Star Search.
Marc:Did you win?
Marc:I won one and lost one.
Marc:What, the big prize?
Guest:No, I won the first round and I stayed an extra few days.
Guest:It was very exciting because I'd never been on a show that were other people that weren't comedians on it.
Guest:Singers and dancers and Keith Robinson was down there and he helped me drag.
Guest:I really went to win.
Guest:I brought like two duffel bags of clothes and thought I was going to be there for two months.
Guest:I was there for four days.
Marc:The core group, it seemed, that I was friends with, and you were always part of it, although you were up to catch a little more, it was me, you, Attell, Louie, Sarah, Todd.
Marc:Well, you remember the ones who rise to the top.
Marc:But we were hanging out.
Marc:I mean, I remember hanging out with you guys, right?
Guest:Of course.
Guest:Well, the all-comedy scene.
Guest:We were doing rebar.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:We were all doing our open mics downtown, but in addition to that, a scene came out of it.
Guest:Yeah, but that was the weird thing.
Guest:And that's what I really think gelled a lot of it.
Guest:Where you would actually remember it because instead of just being friends, we were now like doing interviews together and people would come cover these things.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:We would do festivals together.
Guest:I remember being in Aspen for the first time when you were there.
Guest:Oh, for Comedy Central.
Guest:Yeah, I remember us all auditioning for Letterman together and me getting it and you not getting it.
Guest:We're at Stand Up New York.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But let's talk about that because the way alternative comedy happened in New York City was different than in Los Angeles.
Marc:Because in Los Angeles, it was like Dana Gould and Kathy Griffin and the Uncabaret and then the bookstore and this and that.
Marc:But all the guys in New York that started it were working at clubs.
Marc:It wasn't like we were some nerd crew that wasn't working.
Guest:No, their whole thing out here was much different.
Guest:Our thing in New York was...
Guest:a new space literally alternative like a break from what we were doing at 2 a.m right trying to get on in the real clubs right and suddenly like someone said hey tell a story right what we're going to do without a stage maybe not even a microphone do you remember though the very first one before rebar there was like two at that place you had to walk upstairs no no that was after rebar but the very first one you hosted it the actual eating it show
Marc:that was put together by Michael O'Brien, Dave Becky.
Marc:There was one show that we all did before Rebar.
Marc:And then Rebar, which was a very impractical performing situation, but that's where it became a thing.
Marc:Was it Rebar?
Guest:I remember learning so much about myself from that scene because...
Guest:You know, I wasn't an actor.
Guest:I wasn't a real entertainer.
Guest:I was just basically putting a, you know, trying standup.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not really popping, not getting on the late night shows or MTV or any of those shows.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Not quite there yet.
Guest:But alternative comedy kind of loosened me up where I wasn't afraid to try to tell just a story.
Guest:Me too.
Guest:And not worry about the laughs per minute.
Guest:Me too.
Guest:I just started talking about my grandfather.
Guest:And I remember I got encouraged to talk more and more about my life.
Guest:And it kind of freed me up as, you know, I was always loved Garrison Keillor and that kind of stuff.
Guest:I was like, okay, maybe I don't have to be so sticky.
Guest:Maybe I could just talk.
Guest:And that led to me going, what else can I do that I don't realize I could do?
Guest:And that's when I started doing the roasts.
Guest:I was like, I went to the roast as alternative comedy.
Guest:I was like, it was like a hoot.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I was like, oh, this is weird.
Marc:Well, wait, let's fill in some gaps.
Marc:So you're working at catch and we're doing Boston and then we got this alternative thing.
Marc:And I think like the rebar thing, I think that's where that picture of us was taken with moon.
Marc:Was it the rebar?
Marc:Okay.
Marc:And then it moves to Luna, which is a different situation, but it's already hot and it becomes like, I didn't even realize how hot it was.
Marc:I was sweaty and on Coke and yelling, but yeah,
Marc:Right, but I remember because you and Elan Gold were Friars, and there was this weird push.
Marc:When did you join the Friars Club?
Marc:96, maybe?
Marc:Oh, that late?
Marc:That's about right.
Marc:I was the last one of that group.
Marc:Because I remember Elan- I couldn't afford it.
Marc:Was like, come on, let's make it young and hip.
Marc:They have a gym there.
Marc:It's like, really?
Marc:And I remember I went up there and I'm like, I can't.
Marc:I can't do this.
Marc:I mean, I love these old men, but I can't.
Marc:What am I going to do up here?
Marc:I'm going to sit and watch Alan King eat?
Guest:I love that.
Guest:See, yeah.
Marc:To me, that would go, yeah.
Marc:So when did you go the first row?
Marc:So it was before you joined the Friars Club?
Guest:No.
Guest:That's how I joined.
Guest:I got invited there to play poker a few times.
Guest:With?
Guest:Judy Gold, Elon Gold, and Greg Fitzsimmons is what I remember.
Guest:Okay, I remember, right.
Guest:Greg's dad had been an influential member.
Guest:Right, he was part of it.
Guest:The next wave of Friars.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I remember I got him to play poker.
Guest:It was like-
Guest:I would always play poker in Mark Cohen's house.
Guest:Mark Cohen's overheated studio.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So now to suddenly be at the Friars Club where a waiter comes up and says, would you like chicken salad or tuna salad?
Guest:And you're getting a drink while you're playing in a special air-conditioned room.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Instead of in bong smoke.
Guest:With four other comics.
Guest:Seven other comics.
Guest:So suddenly it felt very, I don't know.
Guest:showbiz legit right yeah and i loved it i just loved that and old school though greg fitzsimmons asked me to perform at the bob fitzsimmons memorial golf tournament for his dad honoring his dad and a charity out in jersey yeah
Guest:And I didn't play golf, so I showed up just in time for the show, and they were all drunk, all the Friars guys.
Guest:Freddie Roman was hosting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he like shit on me when he introduced me.
Guest:I never met him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, oh, well, here's an easy target.
Guest:And I just, for the sake of survival- Yeah.
Guest:Started goofing on him.
Guest:They call him Freddie Roman because he talks so loud you can hear him in Italy or something like that.
Guest:Just lighthearted.
Guest:Did it work?
Guest:It killed.
Guest:I didn't think much of it.
Guest:It just kind of did a favor for Greg.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then like a month later, Jean-Pierre Trebeau, the head of the friars, called me up and said, would you like to roast Steven Seagal?
Guest:And I was like, why?
Guest:I'm like,
Guest:they're like well that's how we do our roasts and there was no youtube i couldn't google it back then so i went to the museum of broadcasting and i looked up the roasts the dean martin and i saw oh it's not just steven seagal who i didn't care about it was henny youngman and milton burrow and buddy hackett would all be there norm cross i was like all right i think i could get that and that to me sound like another ambitious attempt at alternative comedy like oh let me try writing this kind of comedy
Marc:So, like, old-timey.
Guest:So, there was an ironic thing to it?
Guest:No, not old-timey, but pointed.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:About a certain person on a certain date.
Guest:But it's a class.
Guest:What they call special material.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I thought, oh, okay, that could be fun.
Guest:Like, putting a suit on and riffing with these legends at one in the afternoon, that was...
Guest:really different it was it is yeah yeah yeah and of course you todd and a couple other people made fun of me when i would go back down to rebar or luna lounge to the alt scene yeah and i go this is the ultimate in an alternative what are you talking about you guys are being pussies
Guest:they're like you're going to some safe old jewish thing that we're trying to forget about and the friars and all that wasn't cool then it's right after whoopi goldberg and ted danson caused a stir with blackface but this it was also in-house this is before they were televising the roast right you know it hadn't been televised since dean martin and that was its own thing but the friars roast was an in-house thing was it an honor like to be roasted is that why they did it yeah they would do like you know a career achievement or a man of the year kind of thing so who was that that
Guest:first one steven seagal who was on the day milton burrell hosted it it was his last time emceeing one in 1990 and you never met him before you know i didn't meet him till he introduced me on the day yeah who else was there buddy yeah did had you met him no i didn't meet any of these never met any this was the first time you met buddy hack and milton burrell who right and i walked right into it
Guest:Um, there's always those other weird people like Patricia Hearst would be there and the mayor, David Dinkins would be there.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And, and, and Leon Spinks.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Michael Spinks.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And, and, and Don King, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it was like, oh, well not only am I not performing for like drunks at 1am, these are like New York socialites.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, and people who I didn't have to dumb it down for.
Guest:Like I could try to write the smartest jokes I could think of.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I really took to that.
Guest:So Milton brings you up.
Guest:Oh, terrible intro.
Guest:Just back from Vegas where he performed at a convention for lesbians with dildo rash.
Guest:And he lost a look at the card again to remember my name.
Guest:And of course, you know, I'm on late.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Some guys killed, some guys bombed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And did you do well?
Guest:Yeah, I did very well.
Guest:My first time I had some good jokes, but I had way too many.
Guest:So every time my opening joke was,
Guest:I looked at Steven Seagal.
Guest:I shook his hand.
Guest:There's 2,000 people to New York Hilton.
Guest:I realize a lot of you don't know me, but I feel uniquely qualified to be here today because I'm also a shitty actor.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Oh, so it was one of those ones that think- I got my one suit on that I bought to do Letterman maybe one day or went for a wedding.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I have my notes.
Guest:And every time I got a big laugh, Milton would poke me right in the ribs from behind the dais.
Guest:Only I could, no one could see it.
Guest:And after three or four times, I'm like, what the fuck are you doing, Milton?
Guest:Like, it was driving me crazy.
Guest:Everyone thought I had like a tick.
Guest:And he's like, he just starts messing with me.
Guest:So I had a few, you know, I started riffing with him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that must have been great.
Guest:and it was good and he kind of wouldn't let it go and finally from like 20 yards down the dais buddy hackett was like milton let the kid work remember when you used to work and that was it milton ran down the dais kiss buddy on the lips i made some joke about the two of them after the show and that was it i have pictures in my house you were in of milton like hugging me and buddy taking me out after and you know and milton i said to him why would i asked buddy why would milton have done that
Guest:And Buddy said, Milton doesn't like when a new guy gets big laughs.
Guest:And I asked Milton, you know, after we'd go back to the Friars Club after, Buddy would be drinking in one room and Milton would be smoking in another room.
Guest:And they'd both hold court in separate rooms because one didn't like drinking and one didn't like smoking.
Guest:And Milton said, you know, well, you had good jokes, but they only remember the home runs.
Guest:Just tell the home runs.
Guest:And I was like, oh, that's a good lesson.
Guest:So he didn't like that I was going on too long.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:That's what he claimed.
Guest:So it was a good lesson.
Guest:I remember that all the time.
Guest:It's like, you don't need to tell every joke you think of.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You need to narrow it down and destroy.
Marc:Yeah, well, that's a good note for me to take right now.
Marc:I'm trying to put together an hour.
Marc:When did you make sort of like feel like this was your thing?
Marc:Like, you know, outside of enjoying doing it at one in the afternoon or at the Hilton, when did you...
Guest:i did it for fun for fun and i was like wow i'm really good at this yeah i got everyone i need everyone to see it somehow yeah that's when i talked to friars and comedy central and drew carry into getting letting it be on tv yeah and what was the first one drew it was drew carry is to comedy what mariah carry is to comedy
Marc:That's a good one.
Marc:That was your opening?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you do Drew, and they put it on Comedy Central.
Marc:I remember right at the beginning, those deuses were fucking huge.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Why?
Guest:They had like 30 people.
Guest:Why?
Guest:Just the friars would always invite every...
Guest:cool person that might want to come, that was a celebrity.
Guest:And then Freddie Roman would go on before the actual roast started and have everyone famous take a bow.
Guest:And there'd be like every actress who's ever been on a soap opera, whoever was on Broadway at that point.
Guest:We would have people like the police commissioner would come.
Guest:You know, the Friars was very, it was a scene.
Guest:And it was something they only did once a year at noon for two and a half hours, so everybody had to see it.
Guest:Howard Stern would sit in a balcony out of firing range just because he loved watching it.
Guest:So you always wanted to kill because...
Guest:everybody was there from donald trump to howard stern to the mayor to the police commissioner to to all these notorious boxers and and and it's where it's where mobsters would mix with politicians and it was okay right and i love that front of people like seagal invited all these mobsters but yet there was also like
Guest:you know it's new york yeah and it really that that was new york it was very pure and i love that and i love being part of something that was different than the normal late night comedy scene sure my parents loved those guys don buddy and don and those kind of guys so i was like there was a lot of like god i wish they were here kind of moments while i was sitting there yeah but my friends came and my family my cousins and they'd always come my aunt and uncle were got real supportive and they loved meeting everybody so i
Guest:I got a big kick out of it too.
Marc:So which one of the old guys did you become real friends with?
Guest:Buddy.
Guest:Yeah, right?
Guest:Buddy and I were like brothers.
Guest:He's a Jersey guy.
Guest:He was originally from Hackensack.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:His name was actually Buddy Hacker.
Marc:Really?
Marc:His real name, Leonard Hacker.
Marc:I loved him when I was a kid.
Marc:I sent away for an autographed picture to him when I was probably 14.
Marc:And he sent it.
Marc:I got one.
Marc:I got to be better.
Guest:I get emails.
Guest:Can I just delete?
Marc:No, I usually send the pictures.
Marc:I don't get a lot of them because it's sort of a dated thing.
Marc:But I'll send them usually.
Guest:I got to get better at outreach.
Marc:I don't send just the autographs.
Marc:Because then what happens is, who are those guys that hang outside at Kimmel and Conan that want you to sign shit?
Marc:I'm like, what do you think you're going to get for that?
Marc:You know the guys I'm talking about?
Marc:There's like four of them.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And they have these signed pictures.
Guest:Somehow they already have eight pictures of you in a folder.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:You don't even know how they know you were going to be there.
Marc:Right.
Guest:How didn't you know I was on a Southwest connecting flight?
Guest:With eight pictures of me dressed like Gaddafi.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What are they doing with those?
Guest:All right, so you do Drew Carey, and that's a success for Comedy Central?
Guest:Yeah, so much so that we did a bunch more with the Friars, and then we did Hugh Hefner going into 9-11.
Guest:That was a big one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Going into 9-11?
Guest:Well, it was about to be... Well, 9-11 happened, and we had a roast scheduled for like two or three weeks later.
Guest:Oh, did you do it?
Guest:We wound up doing it and canceling the after party, using that money towards...
Guest:the twin towers fun.
Guest:And it was a big thing.
Guest:You know, I was a producer on the show.
Marc:It was a horrible time, man.
Marc:You know, for months after that, it's still smelled in New York, but we had, we had to decide whether to go ahead with the show.
Guest:And I made, I wrote a letter, which I still have somewhere and,
Guest:To the Friars, to Hef, and to Comedy Central saying, this is before it was a cliched expression.
Guest:I said, if we cancel the terrorists, win this one, let's not have a party.
Guest:Let's put the money towards the charities and go on with the show and start to...
Guest:shake this off a little bit yeah and did it work it worked it was a great one of the best roasts ever that's the one where gilbert did the aristocrats oh yeah jimmy kimmel hosted yeah and it was like adam carolla sarah silverman cedric the entertainer plus like tons of other cool people that went on to become a huge star steve carell stephen colbert triumph patty hurst uh rich eisen um
Guest:They were all there just as guests.
Guest:Like, we kind of got whoever we could get after 9-11 just to be there.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And... And you were the producer.
Marc:You were brought in as the producer.
Marc:That was your thing?
Guest:I wasn't brought in.
Guest:I was like, you know, I would help people write their material.
Guest:I got a co-producer credit or something.
Guest:I was making very little money.
Guest:And was Barry Cass involved in that?
Guest:I was doing it strictly for the...
Marc:Love of the game at that point.
Marc:That was always what was fascinating.
Marc:I don't think what people know about the roast is that from the very beginning, you put together a team of writers to help people out?
Guest:At that point, we had no team and no money.
Guest:It was just like who wanted to try to get this going and who wanted to help out and who wanted to credit.
Guest:Who wanted to get their jokes on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That way you could say, hey, I wrote some jokes for Kevin James.
Guest:Whatever.
Guest:When he roasted Jerry Stiller.
Guest:Kevin's funny.
Guest:Yeah, he was good.
Guest:That was always the goal, to just get some jokes on.
Guest:They were like currency.
Guest:You had the jokes, you know, tell me your best joke.
Guest:Everywhere I went, people wanted to hear the roast jokes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And also, because they're roast jokes, if you get, like, eventually you got writers, because they'd be like, these guys would show up, like, here's a bunch of, you take what you want.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You're like, all right.
Guest:And I got better at recognizing...
Guest:if somebody was funny like oh i'd heard that or that seems derivative yeah people would go well can't you just mix them up and rewrite them for the guy you're roasting and i'd go some people can but i'm now under the pressure of being good at this yeah and i kept thinking for those first five or ten roasts like all right well now i've done three in a row where i killed five in a row where i've killed eight this is gonna turn bad eventually right but it never did i just kept doing it
Marc:and uh the better at it yeah i mean it is a specific form and my like i remember when i did it i'm not i'm not good at insulting people if i'm not mad at them so i i think i could probably do it better now right but like some guys were just great at it they just found that tone you giraldo was very good at it i miss that guy i mean right now could you imagine what he would be doing the work he would be doing yeah the resistance it's crazy he's not around
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you did roast Trump.
Guest:I roasted Trump in 2005 and then again in 2000, I don't know, before.
Marc:I've roasted him twice.
Marc:Was it on TV?
Marc:One was, one wasn't.
Marc:And what was your impression of him?
Marc:I mean, you saw him a lot.
Marc:He was always around.
Guest:Oh, I've traveled with him.
Guest:He hired me.
Guest:For what?
Guest:Went to Mar-a-Lago.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Performed in his clubs.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Plane.
Guest:Really?
Marc:You've been on the plane?
Marc:Been on the plane.
Marc:Now, let's say he's not president.
Guest:He was fun.
Marc:He was.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's really fun.
Guest:Charming.
Guest:Paid well.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Great sense of humor.
Guest:Good hooking up.
Guest:Would blow off talking business to talk comedy.
Guest:Are you surprised by the turn of events?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's intense.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:To know that guy.
Guest:I ran into him over Christmas in Florida.
Guest:Had a nice chat.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Still loves comedy.
Marc:After he was president?
Marc:No.
Marc:After he won and before- Right.
Marc:Before he became president.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was still sort of like, how you doing, buddy?
Guest:Dipping his cheeseburger in mayonnaise.
Guest:Having a good time.
Guest:I asked him-
Guest:I asked him, I said, what would Joan have thought about all this?
Guest:Joan?
Guest:Because he loved Joan Rivers and she won that apprentice show.
Guest:And he's like, she wrote me a letter years ago encouraging me to run for president.
Guest:And I was like, I don't know, man.
Guest:She would have given you a hard time about a lot of this stuff.
Guest:He kind of shrugged it off like maybe, but he didn't think so.
Marc:Is your impression of him that it's really about him most of the time?
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:I know you don't really talk politics, but do you think he really wanted to be president?
Marc:I think he wanted to win.
Guest:I don't know if he wants to be president.
Guest:I think he wanted to be, for a minute, because he's skipping the fun parts of being president.
Guest:Like the victory lap, the White House Correspondents Dinner, where he got roasted.
Guest:You thought for sure he'd want to go up and go, ah, you got me once, but now look who's here.
Guest:And throwing out the first pitch and all that stuff.
Guest:He's missing that.
Guest:So I think this could be bad for his health.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:I think it's going to be bad for everybody's health.
Guest:It's starting to look good.
Guest:That's understood.
Guest:You asked me about the man.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:No, I agree with that.
Marc:I look at him.
Marc:He's eating too much.
Marc:He doesn't look well very quickly.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But the weird thing is that people who live in New York, people like you, who were sort of ingrained in the fabric of the city for all those years, knew him.
Marc:He was a guy.
Marc:He was a New York phenomenon.
Marc:And he was very part of the fabric of that city in a very sort of prominent and entertaining way for one way or the other.
Guest:He was brash.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he represented like no bullshit New York.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I want to build an ice skating rink right here, Wollman rink.
Guest:If he put that kind of effort that he put into the Wollman rink into healthcare, he would have passed it.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:He had a real tenacity that represented New York well.
Marc:When he had control.
Marc:Yeah, he's an old school Queens style guy.
Guest:Well, it does frustrate me when people underestimate him and go, well, he's tweeting all night.
Guest:He's not carefully thinking about this stuff.
Guest:I go, this guy builds skyscrapers.
Guest:He's diabolical.
Guest:He's patient.
Guest:Don't underestimate him.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, yeah.
Marc:And that's a warning.
Marc:This is not... We're not...
Guest:I do think that underestimating him is a hobby in this country.
Marc:Well, yeah, but I think there's a mixture of wanting to think it's chaotic and also being terrified.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I don't know that anyone's necessarily underestimating.
Marc:They just don't know what the fuck he's going to do next.
Marc:And now he's working with all these factions that he never had to work with.
Marc:And now he's...
Marc:what he represents politically because of how he chose to do it and who he chose to surround himself with.
Marc:Whatever charm that he had when he wasn't this powerful is diminished for a lot of people.
Marc:But all right, so what was the Bea Arthur thing?
Guest:She showed up at...
Guest:Jerry Stiller's roast.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Jerry Stiller was an interesting guy to roast because he fully understood the honor of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like to him, it was his Oscar.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He couldn't believe that he had had a career that now was going to be honored in
Guest:In a roast.
Guest:In that way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In New York.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was one of the first times where his son and him were going to be on stage together.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Ben was now the biggest movie star in the country.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Doing like, you know, cool movies with Janine Garofalo was there.
Guest:It was like super hip.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So now the roast was getting suddenly like a little hip factor to it.
Guest:And it was going to be on TV.
Guest:And...
Guest:Jerry invited all his old school funny friends.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Bea Arthur came.
Guest:And I see Bea Arthur is on the dais but not speaking.
Guest:Now, I am in awe of that woman.
Guest:I mean, Maude, the golden girl.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She was the funniest to me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I remember thinking, wow, it's so weird that she'd just be sitting there but never be acknowledged, never take a bow, never speak.
Guest:It was like...
Guest:To me, that was strange.
Guest:So I was like, I got to find a way to mention her.
Guest:And I had my jokes that I worked.
Guest:Didn't realize she was going to be there, so I didn't write about her or anything.
Guest:It was about Jerry.
Guest:But I just sort of wrote in my margin on my script, be Arthur's dick.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:yeah didn't know what the joke would be or where i what would happen but i thought if i'm killing and there's some a space to think maybe there's something there about her dick i don't know why maybe someone said something like yeah i don't know if i'd heard that but you know in the in the walk out to the kitchen if someone said i don't know where it came from i honestly don't yeah and
Guest:we're doing the roast we're doing the roast and you know dirty words like Jerry would kind of squirm like he's still like you know he's still kind of like that yeah and old school Sandra Bernhard went on right before me yeah
Guest:which she sang a sexy, seductive, lap-dancy version of Magic Man, I think, to Jerry.
Guest:She, like, grinded on him to embarrass him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was next.
Guest:Sandra Bernhard, holy shit, I wouldn't fuck you with B. Arthur's dick.
Yeah.
Guest:like the joke's okay it's pretty great but what made it a home run was they only remember the home runs what made it a home run was b yeah leering at me giving me a huge take yeah like her head just turning around yeah on the jumbo truck you know yeah in the big screen and just making that triple into a grand slam yeah
Guest:So then now they're holding on her.
Guest:They're holding on her.
Guest:Well, she's just looking.
Guest:No one's mentioned her for an hour and a half.
Guest:I'm like, at the end, she's just been sitting there.
Guest:So, you know, anybody's fair game at a roast.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And...
Guest:I just kept hearing about that joke.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Somebody wrote about it in Time Out Mag, New York, and then, you know, I'd go on morning radio shows to promote my gigs, and suddenly I was like, I'm hearing about this every single place I go.
Guest:I go, she must be hearing about it.
Guest:And...
Guest:she was doing a one woman show in LA and I was like, you know what?
Guest:I'm going to go thank her and make sure she's okay with it and say hi so that when I get asked about it, I can say she took it well.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I didn't know anything about her.
Guest:I didn't see her after.
Guest:I didn't know her.
Guest:And I tracked her down and I went to her show.
Guest:She did this beautiful show where she sang and told stories.
Guest:She was barefoot and,
Guest:And I waited the whole line of well-wishers.
Guest:I got in at the very end.
Guest:I had flowers.
Guest:I wore a suit, seersucker suit.
Guest:It was summertime.
Guest:And I said, Miss Arthur, that your show was amazing tonight.
Guest:I don't know if you remember me.
Guest:My name's Jeff.
Guest:We met at Jerry's Roast.
Guest:And before I could even get it out, she goes, you nailed me, you prick.
Guest:Perfect.
Guest:And she took me backstage to the dressing room.
Guest:Fuck this shit out of me.
Marc:It's one of the greatest, greatest days of my life.
Marc:There you go.
Guest:Long live Bea Arthur and her dick.
Guest:Yeah, so she was good with it.
Guest:She was good with it and I wound up seeing her again.
Guest:She came back and did another roast for Pam Anderson.
Guest:She was there and I did another take on the same joke.
Guest:How'd that go?
Guest:It was fun.
Guest:It was fun.
Guest:People say she got mad and left early.
Guest:I don't see it that way.
Guest:I think it was just long, and she didn't want to be there while Courtney Love was flashing her tits and stuff, so she split.
Guest:But yeah, I mean, B was one of the best.
Marc:Yeah, great.
Marc:So you do all these roasts.
Marc:You also did some writing for the Academy Awards.
Marc:You were one of those guys they hired for that kind of writing, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember after I did that Drew Carey roast, I sent the unedited tape to Billy Crystal.
Guest:I wrote him a fan letter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I somehow looked up where his office was.
Guest:I still lived in New York, but I sent it to LA to Maple Drive.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I said, dude, somebody had just done the Oscars poorly.
Guest:And I was like, you need to do this again.
Guest:I'm a big fan.
Guest:I saw him on Inside the Actor's Studio.
Guest:Some of the things you said really had an impact on me.
Guest:Basically, I wrote him a fan letter with a VHS cassette.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Of me roasting Drew Carey.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If you ever host the Oscars again.
Guest:It wasn't even a real job.
Guest:It was like, if you ever do this again.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I want to come help.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think a year later, Barry Katz calls me and goes, I was on the phone with him.
Guest:He's like, holy shit.
Guest:David Steinberg's on the other line.
Guest:And the Oscars were about to happen again.
Guest:They had just announced Billy.
Guest:And he goes, hold on, I'll call you back.
Guest:That's very, yeah.
Guest:No news.
Guest:Billy wants to meet with you in LA in two weeks.
Guest:So now I'm like, wow.
Guest:it worked and i get there and i'm thinking he's going to interview me maybe i'll work on the oscars and i walked into his office and he shook my hand and asked me to write on the oscars before he even started to talk so it was cool i learned a lot learned you know what i learned on that one besides that i could write jokes for a big audience and and and make billy crystal laugh i learned that as hard as i was working as a struggling starting trying to make it name in new york and la he was working harder than me
Guest:He was like directing a baseball movie about Mantle and Maris while he was preparing the Oscars.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he would write all his, you know, he did all the press.
Guest:He had the musical opening.
Guest:He had bits in between.
Guest:I was like, oh, okay.
Guest:So when you become a star, you don't cruise.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It first gets hard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that was really an eye-opening thing for me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Well, you know what?
Guest:This is good news because I have the will to work that hard where a lot of people would see that and go, oh, forget it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:That is an important lesson to learn that it is work.
Guest:It's very, very hard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I learned from his work ethic.
Guest:So thank you, Billy.
Marc:So in all this time, so you're living your life and how often do you hang out with Buddy?
Marc:Is it a regular thing?
Guest:By then, Buddy and I became like brothers where it was almost like I was the older one and he was the- How much laughing did you do?
Guest:Lots of laughing.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:And when I had a big roast, I'd call him up and read my jokes to him and he'd give me a few ideas and I'd sit in his backyard when I was in LA and he had swings back there and he'd make matzo braai or chicken salad and we would eat.
Guest:Or we'd have a drink and go to this fried chicken place in Burbank he liked.
Guest:And he would take me to poker games and we would do animal charity gigs together.
Guest:Who was he hanging around with?
Guest:He was friends with a lot of animal people.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It was always weird.
Guest:He was friends with Dom DeLuise and his wife.
Guest:And he was friends with Shecky.
Guest:And he was friends with Sid Caesar.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And we would go to Norby Walter's poker game.
Guest:They'd have Chinese food.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't think I've ever told this before, but I just remembered it the other day.
Guest:Norby's an old comic?
Guest:Norby was a music business guy that got kicked out of the music business for Paola.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:But since he broke like Grandmaster Flash and all these guys, he was legendary.
Guest:You'd hear him mentioned in like early 90s, late 80s rap songs.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:So, he's that guy with like gold records all over his apartment.
Guest:So, you'd see him with like Grandmaster Flash and then you'd see him with like Buzz Aldrin.
Guest:He was one of those guys.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So, he was super cool.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I remember he had this regular poker game.
Guest:He couldn't be in the music business anymore, but he still had all these Hollywood friends.
Guest:So, he had this nice apartment and young comics would go later on, but in the beginning, it was just kind of me and Buddy brings me and Sid Caesar's playing and Charles Durning's playing and Charles Durning had this great thing he would do once a game.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Remember Charles Durning?
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Guest:right great great actor and he was a war hero and among other things and and he'd let he'd let every when the game was particularly kind of dull he'd wait until it gets to his bet he would just say two-time academy award nominee charles derning checks
Guest:and then i remember one time like norby would put out a little chinese buffet yeah and buddy haggett and i are standing at the buffet yeah like with our plates shoveling food into our mouth not taking the time to even sit down yeah at the just before the game starts just standing there eating yeah
Guest:And behind me, I look over and I see Harry Hamlin from LA Law, number one show at the time, tan, gorgeous, eating some fruit salads, sitting politely by himself.
Guest:And I was like, buddy, that's why he looks like he looks and we look like we look.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Two fat Jewish comics eating Chinese food.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Buddy kind of looks at me and looks at him and he goes, yeah, but in 20 years, he'll look like shit and we'll still be funny.
Yeah.
Guest:another good one yeah that's a good one it's true I saw Harry Hamill recently don't look that good not anymore so you became close to Sid you used to go to the hospital right I used to see Sid at his house I would go to Sid's house when he was sick yep when he was sick we had my friends my friend Fran would have these dinners in his honor for his birthday or it was a Jewish holiday yeah
Guest:she'd invite Carl Reiner and Mel Brooks and Dick Van Dyke.
Guest:And then a couple of comedians that Sid liked Richard Lewis and myself.
Guest:I was always the youngest.
Guest:Um, I really had a great affection for Sid.
Guest:Sid had the best laugh.
Guest:Like if you made Sid laugh, you would, you'd think you were going to kill him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I have a picture on my fridge in New York of Sid just laughing at a joke at something.
Guest:And,
Guest:And it was the only time where I really saw Mel Brooks and Carl Reiner back then and you could really see the love they had for Sid because he kind of discovered them.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And I remember in the later times when Sid was really kind of out of it in a wheelchair almost and he wasn't really sure if he was there for his birthday or if he had a show.
Guest:He would come in and out of sort of reality.
Guest:And I remember Mel would walk in right ahead of Carl
Guest:And Mel would get on one knee right in front of the wheelchair and go, Sid, just loud enough for me.
Guest:He goes, Sid, it's your friends Mel Brooks and Carl Ryder.
Guest:And they would do it like a big opening with their arms out, like a real stance.
Guest:And Sid would just light up.
Guest:He just loved that.
Guest:That's a beautiful thing.
Guest:It was amazing.
Guest:It was amazing.
Guest:Good friends.
Guest:And I got to become friendly with those guys because of that.
Guest:where they oh that is so funny it's so sweet it's your good friends yeah nope you know but he was saying that kind of in jest like of course we're your good friends but no but like because he was in and out yeah he just wanted to deliver it right right to him right his face yeah Sid would just light up oh that's great and Sid always held your hand when he talked to you yeah you know he's always real sweet never had a mean thing to say about anybody and uh you know he would he would invite me when it to these weird things where he'd get honored by some
Guest:strange weird group yeah you know yeah i'd always come up and make a few jokes about how old he was uh-huh the jokes got funnier and funnier every year as sid got older and older look at this place i've seen younger faces on cash right yeah yeah go for it and you became friends with mel too
Guest:Mel was so intimidating in the beginning, because it's Mel Brooks.
Guest:But we got to know each other through those Sid, he really loves Sid, and he always thanked me for being nice to Sid, and talking about Sid in a nice way to other people.
Guest:And my Uncle Murray,
Guest:was in his late 80s, almost 90.
Guest:He'd never been to LA.
Guest:My uncle Murray was a caterer.
Guest:Before that he was a silver star, purple heart, World War II hero, medic.
Guest:A really amazing guy.
Guest:He'd also traveled the world and had the most full life ever.
Guest:We called him Mean Murray because he was like the family ball buster.
Guest:He really toughened my skin up as a kid.
Guest:So Murray's never been to LA.
Guest:This is like three years ago.
Guest:Really, yeah.
Guest:And...
Guest:I said to Uncle Murray, I said, well, you're gonna come to visit me.
Guest:Come visit me.
Guest:We'll go to Jared's Bar Mitzvah in Seattle, and then you'll come visit me for four or five days.
Guest:And I go, it's a couple months out now.
Guest:I said, what do you wanna do in LA?
Guest:You've never been to Hollywood.
Guest:You've been all over the world three times.
Guest:You walked across Europe in World War II.
Guest:You went back to every nice hotel.
Guest:He outlived two wives who died of breast cancer.
Guest:He goes, I wanna take a picture.
Guest:I wanna shake hands with Mel Brooks.
Guest:I go, well, that ain't happening.
Guest:What else you got?
Guest:So I start writing Mel Brooks through his office.
Guest:I knew who his assistant's name was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And...
Guest:I don't hear back.
Guest:And now my Uncle Murray's there.
Guest:He's in LA.
Guest:We're having fun.
Guest:And it's getting closer.
Guest:And he forgot about Mel Brooks and all that.
Guest:And I'm taking him here, taking him there.
Guest:And now it's Fourth of July weekend.
Guest:And I go, all right, fuck it.
Guest:I'm calling Mel Brooks' office.
Guest:Get the assistant.
Guest:I said, I know, I kind of know Mel from Sid and this is this.
Guest:And he just, you know, I think you guys would, you know, my uncle's a war hero and he just wants to shake hands.
Guest:Is Mel anywhere in town?
Guest:And he goes, well, I'll tell Mel you called.
All right.
Guest:I have to go to the dentist.
Guest:I got a tooth falling out.
Guest:Take my Uncle Murray to the dentist in Beverly Hills, and it's just a miserable fucking morning.
Guest:Now I have nothing to do, so we're just driving around Beverly Hills after and showing my uncle around Beverly Hills.
Guest:How old is he?
Guest:He's almost 90.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:At the top of Mulholland, my cell phone rings.
Guest:It's Mel.
Guest:Where are you?
Guest:I'm at the top of Mulholland with my Uncle Murray.
Guest:I really think you guys would like each other.
Guest:You have a lot in common.
Guest:The only thing we have in common is that I'm a nice guy.
Guest:I go, well, my uncle, you just come meet, just take a picture, five minutes, anything and all.
Guest:He goes, I'm either going to be at my office or the barber.
Guest:I'll call you back in an hour.
Guest:And I'm panicking because I'm at the top of Mulholland where my phone wouldn't work.
Guest:And now it's Mel Brooks calling me.
Guest:10 minutes later, Mel says, can you be at my office in Culver City in half an hour?
Guest:I go, yes.
Guest:There's no way we can get there in half an hour.
Guest:We're in shorts.
Guest:I never saw my uncle move this fast.
Guest:We screech into my driveway, put on long pants, get right back in the car.
Guest:I've never seen the guy nervous.
Guest:Now he's practicing lines.
Guest:It's good to meet the king.
Guest:can i call you you know like stuff like that my uncle's really i mean he's done it all yeah but this was like making him nervous we pull into mel's office my uncle had bad bad knees he flies right up the stairs to mel's second floor office yeah you know yeah the door opens and you could tell mel's got five minutes yeah
Guest:An hour later, they're best friends.
Guest:They know all the same caterers, the same deli owner from Brooklyn to New Jersey.
Guest:They both were in Patton's army.
Guest:They're talking Yiddish.
Guest:They're setting each other up.
Guest:My uncle was very funny.
Guest:They're cracking each other up.
Guest:I can barely get a word in.
Guest:I don't need to get a word in.
Guest:I'm just watching it.
Guest:And...
Guest:They really had, it was great.
Guest:It was like one of the greatest things ever.
Guest:Mel signed a bunch of a book and gave it to my uncle and walked this out.
Guest:And my uncle who always had a witty comment or something to say, he walks the door closed and Mel walks him out.
Guest:The door shuts to the office.
Guest:We're walking down the hallway and my uncle goes, wow, wow.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Just can't stop saying wow.
Guest:We went out to eat after.
Guest:It was just the greatest thing ever.
Guest:And I remember him coming back to New Jersey, telling everybody about his meeting.
Guest:Never mentioned me in the story once.
Guest:Just telling everybody about how he hung out with Mel Brooks.
Guest:And, you know, maybe six or eight months later, within a year, my uncle passed away.
Guest:And I'm back at talking at Sid's house.
Guest:I think it might have even been Sid's funeral.
Guest:I see Mel.
Guest:How's your Uncle Murray?
Guest:I said, well, you know, he passed away, but what you did for him was pretty amazing.
Guest:And Mel would, that whole year when I would see Mel, he would tell everybody how nice he was to my Uncle Murray.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Oh, he said, how's Murray?
Guest:How's Murray?
Guest:He remembered everything about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I said, you know, Mel, it meant so much to me.
Guest:And if any of your uncles ever want to have lunch with me, I'm in.
Guest:And Mel always loves that.
Guest:So, yeah.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:It was a cool, it was a mitzvah.
Marc:Really, really something.
Marc:So, when did Buddy pass away?
Guest:2003.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That summer, suddenly, on attack.
Marc:Oh, that's the best way to go, huh?
Marc:i guess he didn't take care of himself he wasn't really performing anyway he kind of had stage fright into his 70s is that what happens a lot it does it happens people older in life confidence shakes and uh well you forget how much it takes you like you get if you're in it you're just doing it and then if you get away from it all of a sudden it's like oh my god how am i gonna do yeah that's gotta come back right wasn't really performing and
Guest:I felt really lost.
Guest:I had a lot of time invested in that friendship, like a real mentor thing.
Guest:So when losing him was tough, and I really felt lost, and that's sort of when I started to find other things in my comedy.
Guest:Like what, poems?
Marc:no i went to iraq oh yeah not for any other reason than i didn't know what else to do with myself but that but that changed your life too right that yeah performing for the troops you mean you you were existentially depressed it's like making fun of drunk people yeah talking about like pot and and on stage and so like what you were like what am i doing with my life yeah i'm single yeah and just kind of doing it for the
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Just didn't have a purpose.
Guest:Didn't really have a direction and a purpose.
Guest:It wasn't big enough.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:You wanted to give something back?
Guest:I didn't even know that.
Guest:But I remember I was at the improv and Drew Carey was like...
Guest:Even before that when Bob Hope died.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now we're like at war.
Guest:America's back at war.
Guest:And that was depressing.
Guest:And Bob Hope dies.
Guest:And I'm looking at the cover of the New York Times.
Guest:And I'm sitting in Washington Square Park.
Guest:And I see Bob Hope on the cover of the New York Times.
Guest:And I never gave a shit about Bob Hope.
Guest:He was so boring.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Jokes were so boring to me.
Guest:Like it wasn't my generation.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:It wasn't even my parents' generation.
Guest:It was the one before Buddy Hackett.
Guest:And, and, but I noticed he lived to a hundred and he had all these like medals and there's the only you only British citizen ever made an honorary vet.
Guest:Only Americans.
Guest:He was British, but he only ever made an honorary vet by the, uh, military.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:that's what a comic can do?
Guest:What is that?
Guest:What was that about?
Guest:And then I remember showing it to my mailman in New York and he was an African American guy in his 50s at the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And like Bob Hope died and look and he started to get like emotional.
Guest:He's like, I was in Vietnam, and that guy showed up, and he didn't have to, and I was miserable, I was suicidal, and he made me laugh.
Guest:And I was like, wow.
Guest:And then by coincidence, a couple of weeks later, I'm at the Improv in Melrose, and Kathy Kinney and Drew Carey are like, we're going on a USO tour.
Guest:And I was like, oh, that sounds wild and like a cool adventure.
Guest:Kind of reminds me when someone asked me to go to Russia after my father died.
Guest:I was like, all right, I'll just go.
Guest:I got nothing to do.
Guest:I'll go do that.
Guest:You're in the shadow of death again.
Guest:And I was like, had a couple beers and I agreed instantly and I woke up sober the next day and read about the UN headquarters getting bombed and Saddam's on the run and the whole war is like looking like
Guest:pretty ugly and i tried to get out of it for a month i was like oh god my parents if they were alive they would kill me before they would let me go to a war zone right it was really intense yeah and the insurgency was just starting and i didn't want to go anymore and i had an expired driver's license and i had no passport but they somehow worked it all out even though i was trying everything i could not to go and my buddy steve ross somehow managed all the paperwork he's a friend of mine and drew's and he got he got seven comics and
Guest:into Iraq around the Sunni triangle.
Guest:And we did shows, a couple shows a day, Black Hawk helicopters.
Guest:Our hotel was mortared, the Al Rashid Hotel in the green zone.
Guest:And I was like, wow, this is what it really feels like to be alive.
Guest:And not only that,
Guest:I'm doing comedy with a little bit of a different energy out here, and they're way more diverse and sophisticated, the audience, than I imagined they would be watching war movies.
Guest:I didn't know soldiers.
Guest:I only knew a couple of old World War II guys, my uncles, but I didn't really know what it was like to be in the military and to see that they're not like yahoos like you saw in...
Guest:apocalypse now and stuff it was more like oh they're like engineers and technicians and moms and dads and every ethnicity and it was much different than i had anticipated and i really liked it and i i liked that everybody was thankful and gracious and and they weren't drunk yeah they were they appreciated yeah i bet they were kept thanking me for coming and i was like i should be thanking you i got a lot out of this
Guest:And also, you're in the service.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I made a documentary that, you know, brought me right back to my filmmaking roots.
Guest:I shot the whole thing on that trip kind of as a home movie.
Guest:And then wound up realizing that some of the comics were going through something very emotional.
Guest:Blake Clark was a Vietnam vet.
Guest:Yeah, Blake Clark.
Guest:Suddenly he's back in helicopters over a war zone, and he would get very telling me these stories.
Guest:And the soldiers were telling me stuff that they wouldn't tell.
Guest:anyone else they were opening up to me so that became the next year and a half of editing this documentary of home footage called Patriot Act and showed it at film festivals and I think my comedy started to evolve a little bit from that
Guest:I bet you you probably evolved as a person.
Guest:I think I did.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I started paying my taxes.
Guest:I started voting.
Guest:I got a valid driver's license.
Guest:I started upping my game a little bit.
Guest:As a grown up and a responsible American.
Guest:And I was also doing comedy that was, you know, not quite as silly, and roasting had a little different purpose for me there.
Guest:And I was proud of the movie I made, Patriot Act, the Jeff Ross home movie.
Guest:You can pick that up.
Marc:I know that you shot the last special out of prison.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now, what was the incentive for that?
Guest:Um...
Guest:Well, roasting became predictable in that it was always a celebrity.
Guest:And to mix it up, I would do something different every time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I kept thinking, well, why do I always have to wait for celebrities?
Guest:What if I just started bringing the audience up?
Guest:So I started doing that in my live shows, which I still do.
Guest:Yeah, I've seen that.
Guest:And I thought, well, what if I started roasting inanimate objects or ideas or then.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I thought like crime.
Right.
Guest:America was getting violent.
Guest:Game of Thrones was getting big.
Guest:And video games.
Guest:And I started reading a little bit about minimum drug sentencing and weird other things I didn't normally know that much about.
Guest:And I started thinking about my own past, selling pot in high school and how lucky I was.
Guest:I kind of didn't get busted.
Guest:And I thought, well, what's a fun thing to roast?
Guest:Crime in America seems interesting.
Guest:Then you got to personify it somehow.
Guest:And that, to me, meant orange jumpsuits.
Guest:Now I go, how do I find a jail that's going to let me do a show there?
Guest:Would it even work?
Guest:Other comics had tried, some had done it.
Guest:Paul Rodriguez.
Guest:Paul Rodriguez did it, Monique did it, but they were all 20 years ago or 15 years ago, and none of them were roasting.
Guest:I spent months and months and months and months writing an act just for them, but didn't have a them.
Guest:No jail would let me in.
Guest:I was way too sensitive.
Guest:And there's all kinds of laws about certain types of jokes in jail.
Guest:Like it falls under some American law where you can't even do certain ethnic jokes, rape jokes, those kind of things.
Guest:It's against the law to do that in a jail.
Guest:so i had to find a jail that would let me in and i finally found the one only one said yes and that was in brazos county texas yeah where they have a lot of autonomy the local sheriff the jail administrator wayne dickey saw it he thought he could use it by getting his inmates to behave for a month in order to get access to the show yeah so admission was a month of good behavior
Guest:and they never had that many inmates in one room at one time, so it was a huge security issue, but they take law enforcement very seriously in Texas, almost as seriously as I take roasting, and it was a good fit, and I went in, I did the women's jail, I did the guys, and just the other day, I was at a college, and some kid came running over, he's like, dude, I was in the audience at the jail, and now I just saw you at Florida International University, I'm a freshman, and it's like,
Guest:It had an impact.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the whole theme of it is second chances.
Guest:And shortly after that, the president went and spoke at a jail.
Guest:And shortly after that, the Pope went to a jail in Philadelphia when he was in America.
Guest:And I thought, I hadn't seen any of that before.
Guest:I think I...
Guest:I'm not saying I did all that, but I do think it helped sort of take some of the stigma out of the inmates, and it made it a little cooler to talk about, whereas not everybody really understood what was happening in jails.
Guest:Since then, Obama, he let a lot of nonviolent drug offenders out, and I think roasting can be healing, and roasting can be about second chances, but
Guest:And I found that I was doing that with celebrities like Charlie Sheen was having a rough year.
Guest:We roasted him.
Guest:He came back with a new show and we roasted Bieber.
Guest:And after all his weird stuff and acting like a punk and suddenly had a number one album and worldwide tour.
Guest:And I was like, what if I did that for like actual human beings who deserve who can.
Guest:who could benefit from it.
Marc:It has a humanizing component.
Guest:And then I went and did the cops.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:The cops were getting demonized, not humanized, and I remember thinking I loved cops as a kid.
Guest:They were my karate teachers.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and what do cops think about what's going on with Black Lives Matter and all these bad cops upstaging the good cops?
Guest:So the only big city police department that would let me in was Boston, where...
Guest:an unarmed person hasn't been shot by the BPD since in 25 years or something so they had a lot to brag about yeah so and community policing and stuff like that and I thought well cop actually cops were a very skeptical tough crowd much tougher than the inmates yeah
Guest:so that one's out there too you can watch them both on itunes jeff ross roast cops did you get did you uh did you get him i did eventually the first time i tried to perform for them i bombed terribly and that's in the special actually i mean they i really they protested me by not laughing they didn't trust me the union reps had seen that i had gone to a black lives matter rally in washington square park
Guest:And the brass never explained to the unions that I was coming and that I was there to... Be diplomatic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Try to find common ground.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But...
Guest:the running theme in the show is which side are you on the black live side says that but their signs literally say which side are you on then the cops say you're either with us or against us right i thought can't you be on both sides i mean this is a complicated issue and
Guest:I don't know if it'll ever get better, but it seems like people are talking to each other more than they used to.
Marc:But the second show went well?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I went back after doing a bunch of ride-alongs and winning them over, and I did a show as a Cops for Kids with Cancer fundraiser.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So they were able to come and kind of have fun with it and loosen up a little bit, and it wound up being a pretty cool show, actually.
Marc:Well, so now that we're, you know, even more polarized and, you know, it becomes about like liberals and right wing and, you know, Democrats and Republicans.
Marc:And like, I think about that a lot.
Marc:Have you thought about how to bridge that gap?
Guest:Yeah, I do think that there's some missed opportunities lately.
Guest:The one thing is, I thought that White House Correspondents' Dinner would have been a good place to find some... Yeah, he pulled the plug on that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:To find some civility between the press and the White House.
Guest:And I think things, I don't know, that one's a tough one.
Marc:And how's the roast battle business?
Marc:It's great.
Marc:Do you think it's good for comedy?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It's so good.
Marc:What's your problem with it?
Marc:I just never went up to, you know, it's like I love watching roasts, and I like celebrity roasts, and I like what you do, and I like the idea of roasting.
Marc:But the whole competition, I don't like competitions, comedy competitions.
Guest:This is a tournament.
Guest:It's not a traditional, it's not like Star Search or Last Comic Standing.
Guest:This is the only, Roast Battle on Comedy Central, which we'll do again, is the only show where comics who aren't in the competition come to watch their friends.
Marc:and it's giving voice it's given a lot of the comedians who do it are doormen at the comedy store right it's very specific it's not like you know what's your best five it's like you know it's got a context and you know you're gonna go at it with this guy and there's no holds barred and the job is to deliver the goods it's not like you know you're not sitting there going what's my best five or how do i get on camel or whatever no it's like you're a soldier here right yeah
Guest:And it's, you know, you're funny or you're not funny.
Guest:You kill or you don't kill.
Guest:And it's giving opportunities to a lot of comedians who wouldn't get it.
Guest:They get to show off their writing.
Guest:It's a lot like wrestling.
Guest:So, you know, people are into it.
Guest:And it's one of the few safe havens left for...
Guest:politically incorrect or provocative comedy we say everything and you know maybe we're a little older the young comics they don't get offended the way older people get offended yeah you can say really go so we really go and also it's directed at the person in front of you right so so if as long as they're gonna take it and they're all right with it who are you to fucking judge
Guest:And it's everybody from Frank Castillo, who works the door at the Comedy Store, to Jimmy Carr, who's a worldwide star.
Guest:You know, it's very fun to see different personalities.
Guest:All levels.
Guest:All levels.
Guest:It's an even playing field with the roast battle.
Guest:It's a great sort of equalizer in that thing.
Guest:So we love doing it.
Yeah.
Guest:that's one of the fun it's just also like a party there's always like wild scene there and chicks and snoop dog came and waka flocka was there the other day and we just do it for fun on tuesdays at the comedy store well you know how to have a good time it seems that's the life man i know i enjoy the process that's what i always tell myself and you've had a you know an amazing life i mean even since you know we talked on the first wtf i mean all this stuff has happened
Marc:You represent the history of comedy somehow, to me.
Marc:You're a grounded force that seems to have always been there, and your respect and love and admiration and your ability to learn from these old guys and then honor them in your life and also...
Marc:You know, as a comic, you know, it always touches me.
Marc:But now it's other stuff that, you know, with the troops and the prisoners and cops and, you know, the equanimity, if that's the right word, with the young people, the young comics, with the roast battle.
Marc:You're a good guy, good-hearted guy.
Marc:That's nice to hear.
Guest:Thank you, Mark.
Marc:It's great talking to you, buddy.
Guest:Let's tell a Marc Maron story real quick.
Guest:You got one?
Guest:So, you know this story.
Guest:You might not remember it, but you'll remember it a second.
Guest:Is it going to hurt me?
Guest:Nah.
Guest:All right.
Guest:What could hurt you at this point?
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:Maybe something.
Guest:Go ahead.
Guest:We're in Boston.
Guest:We're both Boston University college graduates now.
Guest:We're out of school.
Guest:I'm out a few years, and Mark's probably out five years.
Guest:We're booked at some Chinese restaurant in Boston.
Guest:for a couple days for the jewish thing no no no we're like nick's or something one of the oh the caloone so whatever that place was so mark's headlining and i'm either emceeing or middling and then we're at the condo that the club owns in downtown boston yeah you know it was a shitty condo but still nicer than my apartment
Guest:thrilled to be working with a respected comedian that i kind of knew from new york but we were becoming friends that week and we did our first night and it went pretty well and maybe you weren't thrilled with your set maybe you were it doesn't matter you always had insecurities yeah and you're funny but you weren't confident right
Guest:And I knew you just enough to know that.
Guest:And the next morning we're in the condo and now there's a big headliner bedroom where you're in.
Guest:There's a little tiny MC bedroom where I'm in.
Guest:And in between is a big long living room.
Guest:This roach infested shitty condo.
Guest:And all of a sudden about 10, 11 in the morning, we'd been up late.
Guest:I hear your door like creak open, your bedroom door, and I hear like...
Guest:Like you walk across this long linoleum floor.
Guest:You knock on bikes.
Guest:You crack the door open.
Guest:You peek one eye in.
Guest:I go, what?
Guest:Then your nose comes in and the rest of your face.
Guest:I go, what?
Guest:You go, hey, Jeff.
Guest:I go, what?
Guest:You go, I'm funny, right?
Guest:I go, yeah, Mark, you're really funny.
Guest:You were really funny.
Guest:You were funny last night.
Guest:You go, I'm right.
Guest:I'm going back to bed.
Guest:You close the door.
Guest:You went back to bed.
Guest:That should be the name of your next special.
Guest:I'm funny, right?
Guest:So happy anniversary.
Guest:800 episodes.
Guest:Thank you, buddy.
Guest:That's fucking crazy, dude.
Guest:Thanks, man.
Guest:Whoever thought America's alternative comic would be the biggest star fucker in Hollywood?
Guest:It's a joke.
Guest:It's all right.
Guest:I'm funny, right?
Marc:You interview celebrities.
Marc:I'm funny, right?
Marc:Right?
Marc:Yeah, no, it's all right.
Marc:I can take a joke, Jeff, and I'm just happy that you found your groove in this very predictable format that seems to work for you over and over again.
Guest:It's about roasts.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I made it unpredictable, didn't I?
Guest:You don't know what I'm roasting next?
Marc:You don't know who I'm roasting next?
Marc:I don't even know how to take a shot at you.
Marc:You just absorbed it, and then you made it like real conversation.
Marc:It's like kung fu.
Marc:It's like verbal jujitsu.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:I got to get better at it.
Marc:Maybe I should do a roast battle.
Guest:Why don't you come judge me one time?
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Warm up a little bit.
Marc:All right.
Marc:See what you got.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Thanks for doing this.
Marc:I really appreciate it.
Marc:Happy anniversary.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:I love Jeff Ross.
Marc:That was a nice conversation.
Marc:We caught up.
Marc:We talked about old times.
Marc:He shared some stories about some people.
Marc:It made me choke up.
Marc:It moved me.
Marc:What a great way to celebrate the 800th episode.
Marc:Also, Jeff Ross is performing August 3rd at South Shore Music Circus in Cohasset, Massachusetts.
Marc:And it's our old stomping grounds.
Marc:August 4th at Cape Cod Melody Tent in Hyannis.
Marc:Massachusetts.
Marc:Go see Jeff.
Marc:Thank you again.
Marc:Thanks for listening.
Marc:I like talking to people and I'm glad you like listening to it.
Marc:And I'll play us out.
Marc:I'll play us out.
Guest:uh uh
guitar solo
Guest:Boomer lives!