Episode 80 - Ireland
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:And it's also... Eh, what the fuck?
Marc:What's wrong with me?
Guest:It's time for WTF!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Mark Maron.
Marc:Okay, let's do this, what the fuckers, what the fuck buddies, what the fuckineers, what the fuck nicks.
Marc:It's Mark Maron.
Marc:This is what the fuck I am broadcasting from Kilkenny, Ireland.
Marc:I have not been here in 10 years, and I got to be honest with you.
Marc:When I was coming over here...
Marc:I was not nervous, but I kind of remember my last trip here.
Marc:And as you know, I do have an aversion to traveling internationally, traveling abroad.
Marc:I'm getting over it.
Marc:The fear is leaving me.
Marc:But I do remember that when I was in Ireland last.
Marc:I thought it was one of the most beautiful countries I have ever been to.
Marc:And I have no Irish in me.
Marc:Granted, my last name is Marin.
Marc:So throughout my life, I was often referred to as Moran, which I believe is an Irish name.
Marc:So it's been implied that I may be Irish at times when people were making the mistake.
Marc:And depending on the company, I would say, no, I'm
Marc:I'm not Irish.
Marc:I'm a Jew.
Marc:And then obviously those people would be disappointed and walk away.
Marc:But I've always been very attracted to the country because it is so fucking beautiful.
Marc:And again, the last time I was here, Kilkenny, 10 years ago, I'd literally just quit drinking.
Marc:months before coming here which is a it's like a mortal sin here it's really i don't want to be hackneyed about it i mean that people drink here and i remember i came here i just gotten sober and and i really just did not engage with anybody i felt alienated i felt alone i felt rejected by the entire country because on some level i was i remember going to aa meetings here and there were literally five people at that meeting i
Marc:Alcoholism is held very near and dear to public pride.
Marc:And that's not happening.
Marc:It's just been my experience when I've been here.
Marc:Now, this time around, I'm looking forward to being here.
Marc:I've recently overcome my fear of performing internationally because of the Glasgow incident, as you all know.
Marc:And last night I did a show for mostly festival workers.
Marc:I'm here at the Carlsberg Beer Cat Laughs Festival.
Marc:And the show went pretty good.
Marc:A little bit of resistance.
Marc:I don't know what the resistance was.
Marc:I hope it doesn't continue because, as I said, I am excited to perform for the for the for the Irish people.
Marc:I'm happy to be in the UK and let's get to the crux of it.
Marc:I had to turn my life around this morning.
Marc:I went running.
Marc:I ran by Kilkenny castle and it's just, it's glorious.
Marc:The history here is unbelievable.
Marc:I know nothing about it.
Marc:It's a huge castle.
Marc:Here we go.
Marc:Let's Google it.
Marc:Kilkenny castle.
Marc:Uh,
Marc:is a castle in Kilkenny, Ireland, built in 1195 by William Marshall, first Earl of Pembroke.
Marc:Okay, I'm lost.
Marc:Sounds too complicated.
Marc:A lot more than I could ever imagine learning, but I am impressed by it.
Marc:I basically took this beautiful run this morning, passed this castle, and I thought, wow, that is beautiful and somewhat important live there.
Marc:Probably many important people live there.
Marc:But the one thing you get the feeling of is that
Marc:Unlike our country.
Marc:Now, I'm not shitting on America, but I got to tell you, shit here was built to last.
Marc:Are you fucking kidding me?
Marc:1195 that was built.
Marc:My house was built in 1924.
Marc:It's about to slide down a fucking hill.
Marc:It's spectacular.
Marc:The masonry here.
Marc:I mean, clearly it's possible to build a wall out of rock and basic mortar that will last a thousand years.
Marc:But that's not the American way.
Marc:You got to build it to break down so people can be employed.
Marc:That's what we live in.
Marc:Disposable culture.
Marc:Everything's got to break down in order for people to work in America.
Marc:Everything's got to be garbage.
Marc:It's a mandate.
Marc:So I took this beautiful run along the river and the air is so clean here, man.
Marc:I mean, I can't even begin to tell you because of all the green, because of all the trees and the plants.
Marc:And it's just so lush.
Marc:It's so clear.
Marc:It's so clean.
Marc:It's so fucking great.
Marc:And I'm running along this this river.
Marc:next to this castle.
Marc:And I'm listening to the Rolling Stones in my head.
Marc:And like, what the fuck is wrong with me?
Marc:Because in my mind, I'm programmed that when I'm exercising, do everything you can to avoid that you're exercising.
Marc:But here I'm running through, it's the freshest air.
Marc:It's the cleanest atmosphere I've been in.
Marc:It's beautiful.
Marc:And I've got the Rolling Stones blaring in my head.
Marc:So I turned it off and pulled the earphones out and just listened to the water.
Marc:And just listened to my breath and just enjoyed the Irish scenery.
Marc:So I guess there's nothing really hilarious about what I'm experiencing here.
Marc:But I am happy to be here and I'm hoping that the shows go well.
Marc:I'm very excited to perform here.
Marc:And it took me a long time.
Marc:I got to be honest with you.
Marc:I had an aversion to Irish people.
Marc:when I was in college.
Marc:I lived in Boston, so they were specifically American Irish people.
Marc:I felt that they were all out to get me.
Marc:I felt, you know, my feeling about the UK, and it still sometimes comes up, it's not unlike Dustin Hoffman's character in Straw Dogs.
Marc:I just think that, you know, I'll be here for a couple weeks, they'll be on to me, and if I'm with a woman, they'll all gang up and rape her, and I will be powerless unless I can figure out how to mathematically, you know, kill all of them within the dwelling that I'm in.
Marc:Getting back to Boston, yeah, there was a time where I just, I really thought the Irish were out to get me.
Marc:It all, it revolved around an incident where I was pulled over.
Marc:I remember the day, it was the day John Belushi died.
Marc:I was in college.
Marc:I got pulled over.
Marc:I didn't have a current insurance card.
Marc:So they towed my car and sent me home.
Marc:This Officer O'Brien,
Marc:Officer O'Brien sparked a sort of several year paranoia of the Irish.
Marc:And then I had to go to some sort of arraignment to get off the ticket.
Marc:And O'Brien was there and I was with a magistrate of some kind.
Marc:I think his name was Malloy.
Marc:Let's say it was, you know, for sake of the story.
Marc:And, you know, I told them I got my insurance back and they they looked at me and said, well, you know, we'll let you off because, you know, it's Easter Sunday this Sunday.
Marc:And then O'Brien looks at me and goes, yeah, it's Passover, too.
Marc:And from that point, I got a little uncomfortable.
Marc:I'd go to bars in Boston.
Marc:I have too much to drink.
Marc:And I think there was an Irish conspiracy to take me down.
Marc:It took a long time to get rid of that.
Marc:And I'll tell you, it's nothing like that here in Ireland.
Marc:The last time I was here, one of the only things I remember about being in Kilkenny was a story I like to call the history of Irish poetry.
Marc:I was in Kilkenny.
Marc:It was late at night.
Marc:It must have been 3.30 in the morning.
Marc:I was walking down the streets of Kilkenny, I believe, with another comic.
Marc:I think it was Dom Irera who's up here again.
Marc:Maybe we'll talk to him.
Marc:And the streets were pretty empty.
Marc:The pubs had closed.
Marc:It was really quiet.
Marc:It was quite beautiful.
Marc:And then out of nowhere, this man appeared in the middle of the street, a large man, fat, had a white shirt, sweaty, his face was all red, and he was holding a half-filled pint glass of beer.
Marc:There were no open pubs around.
Marc:And he saw us, and he looked at us right in the eye, and he raised the glass up, and he said, it's good to be happy.
Marc:And then without missing a beat, he lowered the glass and lowered his head and said, there's no hope.
Marc:the history of Irish poetry.
Marc:So hopefully in this show, we'll get to talk to a couple of English comics, a couple of Irish comics, maybe get out and see the scenery.
Marc:Brendan McDonald told me to go to a place called Kells Priory, which is some sort of castle, some sort of ruin.
Marc:They don't seem to care much about how beautiful the ruins are.
Marc:I guess you take it for granted after a certain point when you're sitting on about 2000 years of histories.
Marc:I mean, you know, there are people here.
Marc:You picture these castles.
Marc:It's just unbelievable, and the history of the Catholic religion, the history of the Protestant religion, or whatever history it is.
Marc:I mean, you know, these people lived in these castles that probably had relatives that knew Jesus, and that's why he's so important here, because so-and-so used to know him, and he's coming back.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Am I going to do jokes about the Catholic Church?
Marc:I did it last night.
Marc:Got a big laugh.
Marc:It was an uncomfortable laugh.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:I'll be all right.
Marc:I'll be all right.
Marc:I'm in Ireland, right?
I'm in Ireland.
Marc:Okay, so these are the dark times.
Marc:I'll tell you what's happened.
Marc:I just did my first show in Ireland for a regular audience.
Marc:Last night I did a show for mostly the staff of the festival.
Marc:It was fine.
Marc:It wasn't easy.
Marc:It's almost like you're telling your jokes underwater to a certain degree.
Marc:I don't know if it's a cultural difference or what, but it's difficult.
Marc:And tonight I did my first real show.
Marc:It was an 8.30 show.
Marc:It was still light out.
Marc:smallish crowd but you know they were seated properly i was the first one out and was fucking awful just like pulling teeth and these are jokes i know work so now i've got to fight to not fall into that isolated you know fuck this place fuck them
Marc:I hate this feeling where you do a set.
Marc:It should have gone fine.
Marc:And I didn't chase them down.
Marc:I didn't try to go out and get them and become more open.
Marc:I just sort of locked in, did the jokes.
Marc:I knew the temperament of the crowd.
Marc:I knew their level of engagement.
Marc:And I just wrote it out.
Marc:And then I got off stage and I thought, oh, fuck, is the whole goddamn trip going to be like this?
Marc:So all the beauty that I took in today, all the history of this country, everything that I love about it, the way I framed my way of mind, my way of thinking to come here and think that everything's going to be okay is now disintegrating.
Marc:And now I'm cloistered in my room.
Marc:I'm like a prisoner in the castle across the river of my own decision, my own making.
Marc:I mean, what am I going to wander around the city knowing that I didn't enjoy my set and I've decided that they don't like me?
Marc:They meaning the entire country of Ireland, Irish people in general.
Marc:Maybe my particular form of neurotic self-awareness is no match for generations and centuries of oppression and misery.
Marc:I just don't speak to that.
Marc:Or maybe I shouldn't speak to it at all.
Marc:Maybe if I was a broad storyteller.
Marc:Maybe if I talked about farts and drinking and pissing on myself.
Marc:If I have just a little more bawdy.
Marc:Is that the word?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Now I'm laying on my bed.
Marc:Just thought I'd share this with you guys.
Marc:That as beautiful as everything is here, when it comes right down to it, if I go to another place, eventually I just end up sitting in my room.
Marc:And now it's like eight hours or five hours later than where most of my friends are.
Marc:My phone doesn't work here.
Marc:I've just eaten a hamburger, which was good.
Marc:That helped.
Marc:I don't have immediate access to ice cream, which is probably fine.
Marc:But it's just horrible.
Marc:This is the horrible times.
Marc:When you're a comic, I don't know how many guys go through this.
Marc:This is some weird time we don't really talk about.
Marc:That's not true.
Marc:We talk about it, but it was just disappointing, you know, and I, you know, and there's nothing to do all day except go look at how beautiful everything is.
Marc:Now I just had this stink ass fucking tanko set and I don't even want to socialize.
Marc:Cause if I do, I'll be like, yeah, I don't know.
Marc:It kind of sucked.
Marc:I'll be like negative guy as opposed to just be fucking professional and say like, yeah, I was a little tight.
Marc:I guess I could do that.
Marc:Yeah, it was a little difficult, but it was okay.
Marc:Yeah, it was okay.
Marc:I'm having a good time.
Marc:I like sitting in my room wondering why my life is the way it is.
Marc:I think I'll be okay tomorrow.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:They don't seem to have any real range of breakfast options.
Marc:There seems to be french fries with everything.
Marc:Everything's a lot of food.
Marc:And you can't just have that much bacon around and not expect people like me to eat it.
Marc:But maybe in the morning the bacon will erase the sadness.
Marc:not even bacon rashers rashers will erase the sadness and i'll go at it again tomorrow and see if i can get them uh to be comfortable with me and then i'll be comfortable with them i thought i opened pretty comfortably but then i just felt this sort of resistance like how come he's not you know uh you see i just projected an entire disposition onto an entire culture of people and it's a disposition that did not accept mark maron
Bye.
Marc:Thank you for coming.
Guest:You're welcome.
Guest:Thanks for having me.
Marc:This is Maeve Higgins.
Marc:I know you because we have a common friend in Morgan Murphy.
Guest:Yeah, that's right.
Marc:And I'd like to say that we are friends again, Morgan and I. Oh, good.
Marc:So there doesn't need to be any tension here.
Guest:I've been trying to contact her to find it.
Guest:No, I didn't know there was any.
Marc:Oh, well, that's good.
Marc:You know, there are people in this business, they say they're friends with other people, but it just means you know them.
Guest:oh yeah yeah it doesn't mean that she'll you know call you crying about something I did yeah you're not that close no I'm definitely friends with her but I just don't remember any do I it's okay oh shit look at the surprise face for you people listening I think were you being dick before to her
Marc:Well, I think we were in Edinburgh.
Marc:I think you were there.
Guest:Yeah, sorry.
Guest:Now I remember.
Marc:That's me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you still want to talk to me?
Marc:Yeah, of course.
Marc:Now that we've put it all together.
Guest:Yeah, and yourself and Morgan have... So that's your personal life anyway.
Marc:That's okay.
Marc:It's all about my personal life, this podcast.
Marc:I know that I'm finding that in the UK, generally speaking, the personal life is the personal life.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And the professional life is the professional life.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Marc:Yeah, there's not a lot of personal life going on in a deep, horrible way on stage or perhaps in public with people you don't know.
Marc:Is that true or am I misreading that?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I think, well, I don't know what it's like in the UK, really.
Guest:I'm trying to think, really.
Guest:I just do gigs in Edinburgh, but I don't massively do the UK other than that.
Marc:But you do here, Ireland.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Because you come from here.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I got off stage last night and I saw you and I knew that you knew Morgan and I knew who you were.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I felt rejected by your entire culture and country because of a. It didn't go well.
Marc:Well, I didn't feel like it went well.
Marc:How did it go for you?
Yeah.
Guest:um grand i mean really grand i mean really yeah okay honestly i mean you were backstage sorry during my show yeah now that wasn't grand listening to you yeah and it was quiet with a few people who really appreciated it right like a few people who were cracking up right and i heard from what i could hear backstage there was a lot of people were quite bemused by your stuff
Guest:amused yeah i think but they weren't you know they didn't like dislike you right i don't think at all yeah um like you have to remember like here is is probably like here the audiences um aren't i don't know your stuff is very personal and visceral yeah so that might be quite whoa you know right like why is he complaining uh we have our own problems
Guest:maybe i don't even think that i don't think it was like oh shut up about your problem i think it was like oh my god he's like talking about like his ex-wife and it's so it's so personal and he's swearing and everything oh it's like a bit shocking a bit much for them um especially first out of the gate yeah yeah okay all right all right i feel a little better
Guest:Yeah, but I wouldn't say it's like, I wouldn't take it personally.
Guest:Because it doesn't mean you're bad at comedy.
Guest:It just means those gentle Irish people were taken aback.
Marc:Gentle Irish people were taken aback and bemused.
Guest:Okay, I can live with that.
Guest:I think after, maybe on a Friday night after people have had a few drinks and it's more of a weekend-y kind of thing, then... It'll go better?
Guest:Yeah, because they'd be less uptight.
Guest:Okay, all right.
Guest:The stuff that you were saying, it would be quite rare to hear people saying that.
Marc:I think that's what I'm experiencing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you couldn't expect people to immediately be like, way!
Marc:Too personal.
Marc:So are you a big star here?
Guest:Not really.
Guest:Honestly.
Guest:Here, it's hard to... Ireland, there's like four and a half million people.
Guest:It's a tiny, tiny country.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So when people recognize me on the street, they're like, hi, Maeve.
Guest:That happens a lot.
Guest:I have to always check that...
Guest:Do they know me from telly or do they know me from school or like one of my mom's friends who's moved to Dublin or whatever?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it's kind of very hard to say like you're famous in Ireland because it's so tiny.
Marc:But you had TV shows.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But almost every comedian here has had a TV show, I'd say.
Marc:Doesn't that make a big difference?
Guest:Yeah, it does.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You did a cooking show?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Me and my sister did a cooking show.
Guest:But like seriously, though, like
Guest:Loads of people, because we had loads of money.
Guest:The national stations had tons of money for the last few years.
Guest:So if you had any kind of idea and said you were a comedian, then you'd probably get a series.
Marc:I should do that.
Marc:I should do like a really raw, personal, American, needy man show.
Marc:Just to make people in Ireland understand that we have them.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, they definitely that would definitely be different than the usual stuff, which is like, you know, hidden camera shows just jumping out and being like, oh, you thought I was a statue.
Guest:And if you were like, oh, you know, my life, then you it would be a big hit, I'm sure.
Marc:Why isn't that part of it's really not part of the culture, the, oh, my life, you kind of suck it up and drink it down here.
Guest:i mean i don't know i mean like people who who've done i mean i'm not i don't want to categorize you now i think that's okay but i can handle it people who you know say like woody allen years ago when he made films like they were went down really well with a certain group of people here right it's not like it's but those people are gone they've left
Guest:They're probably maybe a minority.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I wish I was a sociologist, really, but I can't explain why.
Guest:Is it a Jewish thing, you think?
Marc:Is it a Jewish thing?
Guest:I doubt it.
Guest:We're the most down and healed people in the world.
Guest:We're very sorry for ourselves.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, all the English and all this.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Give someone a few drinks and then the modeling stuff will begin.
Marc:Oh, so maybe it is about the alcohol.
Guest:I think it's got a lot to do with it.
Guest:It's not disgraceful.
Guest:It's terrible.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It seems to be accepted and integrated into the culture of many generations.
Guest:Yeah, it really is.
Guest:Yeah, it's gross.
Marc:How many brothers and sisters do you have?
Guest:I have six sisters and one brother.
Marc:That's amazing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Do you know them all?
Guest:Yeah, I'm like obsessed with them all.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Do you talk about all of them on stage?
Guest:I talk about... Yeah, I do, but I'm not like...
Guest:Do I talk about them?
Guest:Yeah, but I'd never, I'd be terrified of getting their bad books.
Marc:Oh, right.
Guest:You know, because if you're, I don't know if you're from a big family at all, are you?
Marc:I'm from a small family, just me and my brother.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And I don't know if I'm in, I like the expression bad books.
Marc:I don't think I've crossed over into the bad books.
Guest:No.
Marc:I think that no matter what I say, my family just likes the attention.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Even if it's bad.
Guest:Mac phoned us.
Guest:No, I think if you do something wrong with my family, it gets talked about and magnified by the other nine people to the extent that it's crazy to ever put a foot wrong.
Marc:When you grew up, there must have been something equivalent of town meetings just to have the family all together.
Guest:Oh, we had meetings actually, yeah, where someone kept notes every week.
Guest:We had them on Sundays.
Marc:Seriously?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And how did that unfold?
Marc:Were there complaints?
Guest:It would be, yeah, everything was like out in the open and it would be to my, everything would be addressed to my parents and then they'd say things to us like that they were unhappy with or happy with.
Guest:And then we have the old books at home still and we read over them and it's so funny because some people come across as like really, really like needy and other people, I'm always so aggressive in books, like it's unbelievable.
Guest:And now like that I've got older, I can't bear if someone doesn't like me.
Guest:But when I was small, I was such a little bitch like, oh my God, everything, just telling tales and making stuff up.
Marc:Oh, how is that not a one-person show, the family meetings?
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:The books.
Guest:I love to do it, but it's not fair, I guess, on them.
Guest:Because already, Mark, me and my sisters have the same basic head with small differences, like say, not a friend, a slightly bigger nose, something like that.
Guest:So already by me doing stuff in public, they already get recognized and whatever.
Marc:Are you related to Maeve?
Guest:Yeah, or are you Maeve?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:You're that similar genetically?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It's weird, isn't it?
Guest:And my parents look alike as well, you see.
Guest:So I think that's, I don't know, something happens on you.
Guest:And I say, they're like jazz musicians and our heads are like, take the A train, you know, and there's like slightly different variations.
Marc:And you seem fairly well adjusted for community.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Hopefully, yeah.
Marc:Have you gone to the States?
Guest:Yeah, I've been over there a few times.
Marc:And how did it go for you?
Guest:Fine, I think.
Guest:Fine.
Guest:It's so tricky, though, isn't it, when you're doing not in your own country?
Guest:Like, I like it because there's nothing, there's no pre, like, there's no preconditions that people will be imagining you'd have.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Well, I think it's similar both ways.
Marc:Like if you're a big name and you get some momentum over in America, like, you know, you're presented in a big way, then you get this great attention.
Marc:But if no one knows you over there, really, then you just sort of enter at sort of working level.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you're just another comic.
Marc:And I have to assume, as it is for me, it's a little difficult to transition.
Marc:No?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I'd say so.
Guest:I mean, like when I went, I went over there last year briefly for Eugene Merman was having a comedy festival.
Marc:Yeah, I've done that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that's a good crowd.
Guest:I went over and they were lovely.
Guest:And it was like in Brooklyn with like cool, just really nice laid back people.
Guest:And then I went in December and I did some like clubs like.
Marc:Where?
Marc:Into the city?
Guest:I did.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like in the East Village and stuff.
Guest:So I thought it was going to be like.
Guest:I mean, I knew it wasn't going to be like beatniks lying around the face, but I, you know, I had ideas of what it would be like.
Guest:It was just dirty, drunk.
Guest:Desperate, awful.
Guest:Just like guys in suits yelling at me.
Guest:Which clubs?
Guest:Do you remember?
Guest:No, I can't remember, actually.
Marc:Because the Eugene Merman Orbit is, you know, very sweet, thoughtful, you know, Brooklyn hipsters.
Marc:And then when you go into Manhattan to just the regular clubs, it's just regular dirty people that go in for reasons that are sometimes, I don't even know why they're at a comedy club.
Guest:Right, yeah, just to get out of the rain or something.
Marc:And was it rough?
Guest:um yeah some of them like overall it was totally brilliant and like it was really exciting for me who like i usually work in ireland i do bits and pieces in australia but to see people like of different like different color people than me like you don't even know how rare that is in ireland like it's just i do i've been here yeah a few days
Marc:I was in Scotland, too.
Marc:I didn't see.
Marc:I talk about it on stage sometimes.
Marc:I know black people.
Marc:And I, you know, my assumption was that there is something racist about it.
Marc:But this is just not the climate.
Guest:I know.
Guest:They just didn't make it up here.
Guest:It's geographical.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I mean, well, we have had a lot more people from Africa coming like in the last 20 years.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, but you don't have the history of it like we do.
Guest:No, we didn't have any slaves.
Guest:No.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's not a proud history.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:yeah because of the class system you used your own people as slaves well you know we were a colony ourselves like so it would have been the english yeah yeah do you resent the english now not at all no not at all i think i think it's um it's history i really think that there's a lot of history are you on top of your history because like i even just looking up the castle i was you know lost i'm like i have no idea yeah
Guest:i don't know much about that period at all that's medieval history yeah i'm not i'm not complicated yeah it really is yeah i know a bit about like the last hundred years but but not the yeah medieval stuff not at all no i thought i don't have any idea i was thinking like was there no i wasn't can you trace your dragons i don't know when the dragons are here um when were the dragons here but i know we have they real i know i think we did have them
Guest:I think they would fight the unicorns.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:And people would place this.
Guest:How come they don't have a dragon-unicorn museum?
Guest:They should have a museum where I can go look at dragon and unicorn skeletons.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Let's get on to the festival manager.
Marc:Have you traced your family back?
Marc:I mean, can your family find its way back in the history of... Well, I mean, my house...
Guest:that my parents live in his fifth generation already.
Guest:So I think we've always been.
Guest:Recently, the 1911 census came, like became public.
Guest:So you could look up your own, you know, for any Americans who wanted to trace theirs as well.
Guest:Like I live or I'm from Cove, which is the biggest port where people left from during the famine and before and after that as well.
Marc:So your family stayed?
Guest:Stayed there, yeah.
Marc:And they watched all their friends leave.
Guest:Yeah, I think people used to come from all over the country to leave.
Guest:But Cove, because of that, then Cove was quite prosperous, you know, in like a horrible way because we got their money, you know.
Guest:Because they were leaving?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Whatever, they would buy iPods or whatever in Cove and then leave.
Marc:Have you traced family to America?
Marc:I mean, like, generationally?
Guest:Well, a lot of people...
Guest:When I was growing up, they would just like turn up at the house, at our house and say like, oh, you know, they'd be American, older American people.
Guest:Looking for their family.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you were them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And just have these strangers in and like give them scones and, you know, try and think of like cute stories to tell them.
Guest:Was that awkward?
Guest:That's hilarious.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember my mother getting really sick of it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But we thought it was cool because they would wear shiny clothes and everything, you know.
Guest:so they were there was a lot of them a lot of i think i remember it happening like about six times no kidding yeah just people knocking on the door saying oh my god yeah and saying like the sullivans and we'd be like oh where the higgins is it doesn't matter you know
Marc:And they'd expect to be fed and have tea.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And you'd try to give them fragments of a history that they think they have.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:And they'd sit there and go, but was your uncle related?
Guest:Yeah, and they'd have, you know, maps or like family trees and the burks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You were, your mom was a burk, you know, and my mother like, no, she was a kidney, you know.
Guest:So sometimes they weren't even relatives?
Guest:no and they never were not once never once no not once but they enjoyed having tea and yeah they did they were lovely and sometimes you give them a clue like you know oh there's sullivan's three three doors down go bother them yeah so you just have these wandering you know groups of american families or fragments of families walking up down the street eating at people's houses for nothing yeah that's what happened in cove and
Marc:they uh it would often be old couples you know really cute round roundy people coming in you know there's something funny about that yeah it was great for a show like they have this old couple that just never finds their roots but pretty sure that they have them and they're sent all around the neighborhood eating but they never really find anybody but they have a nice time yeah
Guest:Yeah, poor things.
Guest:But it's such a, you know, it's such a nice thing for them to do, like to come all the way.
Guest:And I'm sure the idea that they have of Ireland, it doesn't match up then, you know.
Guest:So I think we're always trying to make it up to visitors, you know.
Marc:Yeah, I find that people here are very polite and generous and, you know, they're nice.
Guest:yeah but then i don't know i feel i actually do feel like personally guilty when people have a rubbish time or when they go out and they're expecting like you know fiddle music and um irish dancers and then it's just like you know a stag night yeah yeah roaring football songs you feel bad yeah definitely and what do you do do you say look it's not always like this i i've kept up the habit of inviting strangers to my house actually do you dance for them or do you play fiddle music
Guest:Just so they have an Irish experience?
Guest:I do.
Guest:Me and all my sisters line up in Rome.
Guest:No, just usually talk to them and resent them for agreeing to come.
Marc:Do you have a website or something so people in my country can go see you?
Guest:I'm in America.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, this podcast, a lot of people listen to it.
Guest:Oh, cool.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Thanks for having me.
Marc:They're not going to know who you are and now they're going to know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She seemed very charming and put up with Mark very well.
Guest:Yes, I've upped my profile.
Guest:My dream.
Guest:That's every day I try and upped my profile.
Marc:I think this might do it.
Marc:I saw yourself on YouTube.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Some of my stuff is on YouTube.
Guest:I can't watch it, but I suppose that other people could easily.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What do you mean you can't watch it?
Marc:It doesn't work on your computer?
Guest:Because it doesn't work in your head.
Guest:It looks like my face has caved in, I think, when I look at it.
Guest:I feel that.
Guest:Like now, I'm looking in the mirror now in your room.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I can see normal face with just everything, you know, nose protruding, mouth kind of.
Guest:But then it looks like everything has collapsed in, like from the side.
Guest:You're seeing that right now?
Guest:No, not now when I look on YouTube.
Guest:Right now it's normal heads, but on the computer it looks to me like it's caved in.
Marc:Oh, so you can't watch it.
Guest:I can't watch it.
Marc:Well, I can honestly say that when I was watching it, it didn't even occur to me that your face had caved in.
Marc:Like I was listening to your jokes.
Guest:You were so charming.
Marc:And never did I say, what's gone wrong with her face?
Guest:You're a very kind man.
Guest:You just don't see that kind of thing.
Guest:You just don't see it.
Marc:No, my brain doesn't work that way.
Marc:But now, unfortunately, what you've put in the people's heads is that if they look on YouTube.
Guest:Be careful, I'd say to them.
Guest:Be with somebody else.
Guest:Sit down.
Guest:No, don't listen to her.
Marc:Go enjoy.
Marc:It's M-A-E-V-E, right?
Guest:Maeve Higgins.
Marc:And just put that out of your mind.
Guest:And you're not related to me, even if you think you are.
Marc:But I'd like to go to your family's house for some free tea and scones.
Marc:I can switch two letters in my name and be Moran and say, I think that I'm related to you people.
Marc:And then after a while, we'd go through the family trees and they'd say, no, your family left Poland and went into Ellis Island years after the famine.
Marc:you're a jew and then i'd say like i don't know i feel uncomfortable is it okay that i ate here and just snatches going and run out and run out and then like the foster brothers and sisters will have the same experience that you had when you were growing up only a little stranger brilliant thank you so much for talking to me thanks mark
Marc:Oh, this is tremendous.
Marc:Alan Cochran has come to my room and he brought treats.
Marc:Yeah, you can pick up the mic if you want.
Guest:Yeah, I was just going to say that.
Guest:I listened to earlier one.
Guest:Oh, look at that.
Guest:People bring you cupcakes to your gigs.
Guest:That is beautiful.
Marc:What do you got in there?
Guest:That's carrot cake.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Are you going to eat any of this?
Marc:You told me there's jam in this.
Marc:Should we get a knife or something and cut them up?
Guest:Yeah, if you like.
Guest:Look at this.
Guest:You want me to do it?
Guest:I only really nibble at sweet things.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Well, you seem very thin, and it seems genetic.
Marc:I'm assuming that, looking at you, not judging, that you would have a hard time getting fat.
Guest:Well, actually, I am fat and thin at the same time in that way that only tall, skinny men can do.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you've got, like, where are you hiding the fat?
Marc:Did you leave it in your room?
Guest:I think there's some on my belly, but I, you know, I'm slightly body conscious right now.
Guest:Are you, in general?
Guest:Just back after a holiday.
Guest:So there's been fit people walking around with no clothes on near enough, and I've been walking around looking fat and thin simultaneously.
Marc:And I'm glad that you're body conscious.
Marc:I'm glad that you, right out of the gate...
Marc:have a vulnerability and a self-consciousness that I'm not finding in a lot of British people.
Guest:Do you know what?
Guest:I've listened to two of your previous podcasts and honestly thought I might not have enough fuck-ups to bring to the table because it does seem to become a bit of a therapy session.
Guest:You don't have to.
Marc:You know, I don't expect that out of people.
Marc:You know, I can work within people's limitations and I don't.
Guest:Well, mine are.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In fact, I bet you find that a lot of the British comics or the British based comics are a bit too balanced to be interesting.
Marc:But are they balanced or is it something like because I can't like I, you know,
Marc:I'm in Ireland.
Marc:I have not been to Britain yet.
Marc:I've not been to London yet.
Marc:I'm going in July.
Marc:A lot of what I'm doing now is in preparation to deal with audiences that really don't seem to have the same depth of neurotic self-awareness that I do, and it's cultural.
Marc:I think that the English people are just as fucked up, but there's some other different approach to it.
Guest:Yeah, it's, I don't know, I suppose it's heavy drinking and just coping.
Marc:Yeah, coping.
Marc:Coping.
Marc:I was talking to somebody about you last night.
Marc:Uh-oh.
Marc:Yeah, no, I was doing a little research.
Marc:I watched your comedy online.
Marc:It was enjoyable.
Marc:You have a good style.
Marc:It's way back, smart.
Marc:And then somebody told me about a show that you did called Comedy with Some Sad Bits.
Marc:Is that what it was called?
Marc:Yeah, it was called Comedy with Sad Bits.
Marc:See, because that's what I do.
Marc:And I'd never heard it put like that because in my country, no one ever uses the word bits in that way.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, we do bits, but sad bits, when you guys say it, it seems to have more historical resonance.
Marc:I see.
Guest:So what was that show?
Guest:That was a show where I talked about my dad's death and its impact on my brothers and my mum.
Guest:Actually, one of the reviews, or the major review of that show, not that the press should be adhered to slavishly, but one of the things that they said was, oh, there aren't that many sad bits, really.
Guest:And this is a press criticism that I've had a couple of times that does slightly annoy me.
Guest:Which is?
Guest:Which is when they say, oh, when he stops operating in his comfort zone, this will be, you know, whatever.
Guest:And you think...
Guest:Don't you dare judge my comfort zone.
Guest:The reason that show was easy to watch is because I stepped out of my comfort zone, made it funny and not, oh my God, I've got to watch this through my hands.
Guest:He's having a breakdown talking about his dad dying.
Guest:I made it funny and made it watchable by moving out of my comfort zone early, then doing it in Edinburgh and getting it good and whatever.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But yeah, it wasn't particularly sad.
Guest:There was bits of sad bits in it, but I liked that show.
Marc:It was good, yeah.
Marc:But that kind of criticism seems like a theatrical criticism.
Guest:I suppose.
Marc:It's not the criticism.
Marc:Because theater critics always want you to say, well, you know, he took it to a certain point.
Marc:But his character didn't fully evolve because he wasn't willing to take these risks.
Marc:What the fuck do they want us to do?
Marc:Cry?
Marc:Did you cry?
Guest:No.
Guest:Would you?
Guest:No, it would have been fake, wouldn't it?
Guest:You can't cry about the same thing at the same time every night.
Guest:It's too weird, surely.
Guest:Well, people do, but I don't think it's sinister, but I think it's extremely calculating behaviour to fake crying in your stand-up show.
Guest:And also, you then end up with that possibility where you're saying to your comedian friends in the bar afterwards, how was the show, and you go, yeah...
Guest:I'm not sure the stuff about my dad dying was as good as it was last night.
Guest:You kind of think, I didn't really cry as much about my dad dying tonight, and I don't know how I'd feel about that.
Guest:But that said, I am kind of interested in... I mean, I'm now a comedian.
Guest:I can't do anything else.
Guest:I've got no other saleable skills.
Guest:This is the life for me, for richer, for poorer.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I am also really interested when real life intrudes and you suddenly realise just how fundamentally pointless it all is and how little it really matters.
Guest:And it's fine.
Guest:It's fine for it not to matter.
Guest:It can just be, you know, that show that I was talking about where I talked about things that I thought were quite important, like, you know, my teenage years and my mum and my dad...
Guest:It also had material in it about IKEA and pizza, and I quite like that about stand-up.
Guest:I think I enjoy the richness that if I want to do jokes about the fear of the day my baby was born and jokes about crisps, I can.
Guest:I love that about it.
Marc:You kind of have to.
Marc:Yeah, well, it's... I mean, I wish I had more of that stuff.
Marc:I mean, that's something I battle with all the time, that, like, I don't talk about...
Marc:Sort of the mundane things that we deal with every day because my head is so spinning with shit, you know, that I can't get out of my own head.
Marc:But it's important because you sort of have to have these places where people can lash on.
Marc:Like, oh, I've done that.
Guest:Right back into his head.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:I think it's the spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down.
Guest:I really do.
Guest:I think, you know, if you can be a funny guy about crisps, then they'll also probably cope with you walking down the road of whatever else.
Guest:Death and mortality.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Although death is a weird taboo.
Guest:People are really funny about jokes about death that are too real.
Guest:If it's not cartoony enough, it gets a bit too real.
Marc:Yeah, because most people don't want to really acknowledge that it's pretty inevitable.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:They don't want that right there.
Guest:It really is inevitable.
Marc:At the comedy show.
Marc:It really is.
Marc:It's one of the few things that we're sure of.
Marc:yeah absolutely yeah do you ever get that like sometimes i don't know how i do it like sometimes like i don't know why the audience is there i don't know where it comes from i don't know why i'm standing there being funny i know i've dedicated my life to it i've been doing it a long time but i don't know what the trick is i have no fucking idea do you ever yeah i mean i i work on my act to a degree but it's just an ongoing dialogue to me
Marc:There are things that I'm like, well, this is going to be funny.
Marc:I hope this is funny.
Marc:I'm going to try it out.
Marc:But I still don't know what it is that makes me different than other people, really.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like, I still see myself, like, sometimes before I go on, it's like, you know, this is ridiculous what I'm doing.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And I don't know how it happens.
Guest:That's one of the things I really like when we were talking earlier about the ways of pulling them in by doing sort of shared experience material.
Guest:One of the things I find people take the piss out of observational comedy and it's poo-pooed partly I think because Seinfeld did it so well and people now remember the million bad imitators of him that he spawned at the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think it's sort of the phrase that they use here sometimes is that you can smell the aftershave off it, you know, like for American comics.
Guest:I like the phrases.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's a good one.
Guest:But I think there's something really interesting about when someone does observational comedy well, there's a strange inclusiveness to it where you sort of.
Guest:Sometimes from the back of the room you see people point at each other going, you did that the other day.
Guest:And there's a sort of a really, it sounds a bit wanky, but I genuinely find some observational stand-up comedy quite touching.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:Oh wow, we all do that.
Guest:I thought it was just me.
Guest:I can't believe someone.
Guest:And it's really about spotting the thing that we all do that we haven't spotted.
Guest:It's not about spotting the thing we all do.
Guest:It's about finding the thing that we haven't spotted that we do.
Marc:Yeah, I think that's absolutely true.
Marc:Are you going to come to the States?
Marc:Have you been?
Guest:I would if I was asked, but in the absence of being.
Guest:Okay, I'll ask you.
Guest:Will you come to the States?
Guest:Yeah, okay.
Guest:Cool.
Guest:Let's put it in the diary.
Guest:Where do you want to play?
Guest:Where have you got?
Guest:What are you offering?
Guest:Well, there's a couple of gigs.
Guest:That hall.
Guest:What's that Carnegie hall like?
Guest:I'll have that.
Marc:Sure, sure.
Marc:We can make a call after this, and we'll see.
Marc:We'll get Mr. Carnegie on the phone.
Marc:So you've never been to work?
Guest:I did like a little visit to friends in New York a few years ago.
Guest:Actually, it was probably eight years ago and did a couple of open spots, but that was it.
Marc:And what was your experience?
Guest:I was fine.
Guest:I quite liked it, but I can't even remember what stuff I would have been talking about then.
Marc:I just wonder what it feels like for you guys because I come over here, it's like I have no idea what's going to happen.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I mean, I fuck my head up so bad.
Guest:Really, are you just constantly going through what you say at home and just looking at how many TV or product references?
Guest:No, none of that.
Marc:It's just sort of like I just assume that we're not going to get along because of cultural differences.
Marc:And then when I went to Glasgow a few months ago, I was like, oh, we're all people.
Marc:And they're actually more able to listen to long-form material than Americans.
Marc:Their attention span is different.
Marc:It seems like you haven't been polluted here and infantilized.
Marc:And made into these, like, you know, sort of gratification-seeking monsters that can't listen to things for more than 45 seconds.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That there's a cultural history of storytelling and paying attention.
Guest:Yeah, well, if that's what you're worrying about, you're about to do gigs in Ireland.
Guest:If you want a cultural history of storytelling, you've come to the right place.
Guest:I just don't know if I'm not Billy Connolly enough.
Guest:Hmm.
Guest:I often think this about stand-up.
Guest:They take what they're given, don't they?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, you know, every now and again you hear people in dressing rooms going, oh, I'm just going to do the dirty stuff tonight, that kind of crowd.
Guest:And you think, oh, really, you were going to go on and do the Jean-Paul Sartre stuff until you got here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's bollocks.
Guest:At least go on and have them put their hand up and say, oh, we don't really want this stuff tonight.
Guest:Can we have your other set list?
Guest:Too deep.
Guest:Could you talk about your dick?
Guest:Yeah, it's bullshit.
Guest:Just, you know, go on and offer them it.
Guest:I think that's true.
Guest:And particularly, you know, if you have that novelty value of you're an invite-only festival...
Guest:where they've been seeing good people come over for years.
Guest:So they're going to think, all right, we've been asked.
Marc:All right.
Guest:Surely you can go on with them.
Marc:No, I won't let last night bother me.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:It was last night a misfire, shall we?
Marc:something went wrong i'm not sure what it was whether it was me or really yeah badly wrong or just no not badly wrong it was you know i was the first up it was an early show it was kind of awkward and uh yeah i don't know if i'm a first up kind of guy but i've got three more where i'm first up and i'm sort of a lot to deal with but yeah maybe i'll go in a little softer that's the other thing that you sometimes forget about this festival that uh actually
Guest:all the things about your place on the bill still apply, even at an invite-only comedy festival.
Guest:But it's so easy to walk on thinking, well, I've been looking forward to Kilkenny for three months.
Guest:This is going to be brilliant.
Guest:And you suddenly forget, oh, I've only actually been at a show for nine minutes.
Guest:The comp has just brought me up, and now I'm opening.
Guest:So the same rules apply.
Guest:I still need to remember that I'm an opener.
Marc:That is true.
Marc:I didn't want to quite see it that clearly, but I appreciate.
Guest:Sorry.
Guest:If you want clarity of vision without any romance, come to me.
Guest:Plain speaking, Alan Cochran.
Marc:What was the most awkward thing that's ever happened to you up to this time?
Guest:Well, it didn't happen to me, but years ago at the Edinburgh Festival, I was doing some late night gig where someone said, oh, come and do 10 minutes or whatever it was.
Guest:And a really unpleasant man backstage who was a magician who was called Magic Pete started to get heckled whilst being bad.
Guest:I was MC of the show.
Guest:Being heckled while being bad.
Guest:No, he was being bad.
Guest:And this woman started heckling him.
Guest:And he got really angry and invited her up on stage to be a volunteer for his next trick.
Guest:She walked up on stage, stuck her hand down her knickers, pulled out a tampon and threw it in his head and spun on her heel and went back to the seats.
Guest:And I think that is still my biggest...
Guest:When people say, what's the weirdest thing you've seen at a gig, that's got to be up there, hasn't it?
Marc:I had no idea where that was going, and I didn't think it would go there.
Marc:Tampon on the face, yeah.
Guest:And what happened then?
Guest:I can't remember.
Guest:I was laughing that much.
Guest:Did the audience blow up?
Guest:Well, he just wasn't very happy and never really gained his composure.
Marc:After the tampon incident?
Guest:No, and it didn't help that I was the only one who was really loudly laughing, and he saw me.
Guest:That is profound.
Guest:It's quite nice that he wasn't nice backstage.
Guest:That is so perfectly crass.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so unexpected.
Guest:Yeah, and she was quite attractive too.
Guest:No.
Guest:She was perfect.
Marc:Was she drunk?
Guest:You would hope.
Guest:Either that or she's an incredible heckler.
Marc:Take it to the next level.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Is there a way you can edit this out of the podcast?
Guest:I don't want to give hecklers ideas.
Marc:I don't think if any women are taking that idea and running with it, let them.
Marc:They deserve it.
Marc:They've got to be a special kind of woman to do that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right, Alan.
Marc:Well, it's great talking to you.
Marc:And thank you for the cakes.
Marc:That's all right.
Marc:It's a pleasure.
Marc:Okay, here we go.
Marc:All right, so I got my, I guess I call it my third show, but the second real show tonight.
Marc:After last night's train wreck, I'm still going first.
Marc:So I don't know.
Marc:I don't like this feeling.
Marc:I haven't had this feeling in a while where it's like I'm scrambling in my brain to figure out which bits to do.
Marc:How am I going to get them to like me?
Marc:Is it going to suck?
Marc:I've rebuilt myself since last night.
Marc:This still happens.
Marc:I don't know why it happens.
Marc:Maybe it's because I'm in Ireland.
Marc:You know,
Marc:may have made me feel a little better but uh i'm still going first it's the same room probably more people all right okay let's do it let's yeah let's do it you're funny yes you're you're confident okay here we go here we go
Marc:Bad.
Marc:Okay, you're good.
Marc:Who cares?
Marc:Fuck them.
Marc:Fuck them.
Marc:Fuck them.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:That's warm.
Marc:It's gracious.
Guest:Okay, I'm ready to go.
Guest:And you know what?
Guest:I'm exhausted.
Guest:I think it's time for a shame nap.
Guest:Appreciate some people understand the shame nap.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:It's a very unique nap.
Guest:There's two naps I take in my life.
Guest:There's the shame nap, but there's also the nap of self-hatred.
Guest:Slightly different.
Guest:Similar, but slightly different.
Guest:Shame nap must follow something you're ashamed of that exhausts you.
Guest:Self-hate nap can really happen at any point during your day for no fucking reason at all.
Guest:This is going so good, I think I'm going to tweet it.
Guest:In Kilkenny, not going so well.
Guest:Not my fault.
Guest:They don't understand me.
Guest:Fuck them, LOL.
Guest:This is going to be good.
Guest:I'm glad I'm recording this, but there's evidence of me doing mediocre in Ireland.
Guest:I really...
Guest:I want to have that for prosperity.
Guest:This is all on tape.
Guest:Mediocre?
Guest:Yeah, mediocre.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Is that what... Don't exaggerate.
Guest:Well, I'm sorry if you didn't understand me.
Guest:I apologize.
Guest:I know this stuff works in other places, but I appreciate your input again.
Guest:Perhaps someone later will make you laugh.
Guest:You thick fuck.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:This has been enchanting.
Guest:Good night.
Marc:Well I don't know.
Marc:Maybe I was sent here to be humbled.
Marc:Who knows?
Marc:I don't think I took it personally that time, though.
Marc:I mean, stayed in my game, stayed in my disposition, had control, but still very disappointing.
Marc:Maybe it's, I don't know, maybe I needed this.
Marc:Maybe I was getting too big for my britches.
Marc:Maybe this is some sort of karma.
Marc:But Jesus Christ, it's not fun, I'll tell you that.
Marc:But it's pretty here.
Marc:I mean, it's definitely pretty.
Marc:A lot of history.
Marc:Maybe I should just quit.
Guest:Oh, God.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Tomorrow's another day.
Marc:Dom Irera is in my room in Kilkenny, Ireland.
Guest:Talk about a short thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's a huge party going on downstairs with just women that are wet, waiting.
Guest:Wet and waiting.
Guest:And we're up here talking.
Guest:I'm going to tell you what happened last night.
Guest:What?
Guest:18-year-old and a 21-year-old.
Guest:Marge Barker was making out with the 21-year-old.
Guest:The 18-year-old was all over me.
Guest:18.
Guest:I said, do you know...
Guest:How much older I am than you?
Guest:She says, I don't care.
Guest:You were on Seinfeld.
Guest:Isn't that great?
Guest:Jerry Seinfeld.
Guest:And then what happened, Dom?
Guest:He's getting me the affection from this little beautiful Irish girl.
Guest:Did it go anywhere?
Guest:Yeah, a little bit.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:I want to talk about it on the air.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Guest:You brought it up.
Guest:I'm an asshole now.
Guest:Am I an asshole?
Guest:No, not an asshole because of that.
Guest:Other things you've done, but not that particularly.
Guest:Do you want me to in alphabetical order list the reasons you're an asshole?
Guest:The top three, if you could.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Well, first of all...
Guest:You always expected more out of your career than the talent you had.
Guest:Wait a minute.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:It's still going to happen.
Guest:I'm 46.
Guest:Is it over?
Guest:No, it's not even begun for you now that you're happy.
Marc:You start to realize when you get older and you haven't gotten to where you want to be, you start pushing your heroes up.
Marc:Like, okay, I'm not going to be in the Brat Pack.
Marc:But, you know, Rodney.
Guest:You know, he didn't really kick off until he was 70, right?
Guest:Well, it always gets later.
Guest:It was actually like 40.
Guest:But now that all of us got in all the, yeah, right, he didn't really kick in yet.
Guest:92, I think he was.
Guest:I think Caddyshack was the big thing for him.
Guest:It was, wasn't it?
Guest:Actually, having me on one of his specials was what lifted him over the top.
Guest:it's weird that we're in ireland this is the last time we spent time together i remember the last time 10 years ago i'd meet you in the for breakfast i'd eat porridge you'd eat the eggs and the bacon and i was very hard on myself and you were like jesus you were hard on yourself yeah yeah and then funny looking back on that now thinking why you know yeah tomorrow night i guarantee you it's saturday you're gonna have great sets i know are you serious because tonight wasn't so great how are your sets
Guest:Uh, you weren't there?
Guest:I killed.
Guest:Well, you know, if I talk about it, then it just seems like bragging.
Guest:So let's move on to something else.
Guest:Now, actually, the first show was hard.
Guest:It was Light Out.
Guest:It was a place called Pegasus, which, like, I don't know what their theme was, but there was a hanging black baby carriage.
Guest:There was giant lions.
Guest:It was like a place where like a scummy orgy place.
Guest:Where'd you get that sword?
Guest:Pegasus?
Guest:Yeah, how'd you know?
Guest:But that kind of sucked.
Guest:And then, because I was hosting, you know.
Guest:Well, what the hell's with these audiences?
Guest:Why can't I figure out how to crack them?
Guest:And then eventually I'm not going to give a shit anymore.
Guest:But they're different, right?
Guest:You'll get them.
Guest:But I'm the first guy out on both shows, which is a bad choice.
Guest:No, that's not bad.
Guest:That's you.
Guest:Is it?
Guest:No, I'm kidding.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I didn't know.
Guest:Where were you working?
Guest:I was working at the river court right here.
Guest:And there's a big audience, 300 people.
Marc:And I know my shit works.
Marc:Maybe I shouldn't say, what the fuck is wrong with you people in this country?
Guest:Yeah, it's not good.
Marc:Is that the bad open?
Guest:Especially if you're open with that.
Guest:What the fuck is wrong with you people in this country?
Guest:How you guys doing tonight?
Marc:And then I said, the only thing I learned here is that if you guys set your mind to it, you can build a wall that'll last 1,000 years.
Guest:Wow, that's good.
Guest:Cheery.
Guest:I had a guy the other night that actually did, you know, I've never heard the Irish gibberish as much as being the Americans.
Guest:But he actually, like he was telling me jokes, which I didn't want to hear.
Guest:First of all, he was like anti-Semitic, racist.
Guest:He's telling me, he goes, the Jews got to let this Holocaust thing go.
Guest:No, I swear.
Guest:And he goes, you know, eight million.
Guest:He said, first of all, a lot of them would have been dead by now anyway.
Guest:By now.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:And then he goes, you know, the Irish lost eight million.
Guest:I go, really?
Guest:He goes, yeah.
Guest:When the famine started, we had five million people and we lost three million.
Guest:So that's eight million.
Guest:I don't know if that math works for me.
Guest:What do you say?
Guest:I didn't say anything.
Guest:I just wanted the moment to be over.
Guest:You know when you're standing there like a cat that's being held and just wants to run away?
Guest:As soon as he turned his head, I was gone.
Guest:They got to let this Holocaust thing go.
Guest:Somebody told me that they thought that the Irish were like the...
Marc:they were just as oppressed as the Jews, that there is a history of oppression here.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:But you've been coming here for 15 years or whatever.
Marc:How long?
Marc:20?
Marc:14.
Marc:14 years?
Marc:And they know you.
Marc:They like you.
Marc:But, like, I watched an Irish guy go on tonight.
Marc:Kill.
Marc:I mean, like, kill.
Marc:Like, within seconds.
Marc:Three references.
Guest:Yeah, well, they just, you know, when I first came here, the Irish guys were relegated to the back of the bus because they just didn't have stand-up chops.
Guest:Now that they've seen Americans do stand-up,
Guest:They've copied the energy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they know how to hit it.
Guest:And plus, they're doing all esoteric stuff that wouldn't make sense to us.
Guest:Now, you imagine bringing one of them.
Guest:At least we could come over here and get laughs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Can you imagine bringing one of them over to the United States?
Guest:It's really tough.
Guest:Because the lucky thing for us, our media covers the world.
Guest:Everybody knows Seinfeld.
Guest:Everybody knows Sopranos, the movie The Godfather, all that stuff, you know.
Guest:But they don't have that.
Guest:You can't bring a Scottish guy to the United States or talk about Father Ted.
Guest:They don't know what he's talking about.
Marc:But I also noticed, too, that if I see an Irish guy in the States or whatever who do long-form jokes, it's like there's no joke sometimes.
Guest:It's just a story.
Guest:Right, it's just a story.
Guest:Well, they're great writers, but yeah, it's a different kind of writing.
Guest:But it is funny to see the improvement in them and how the audience does react because it's like, ah.
Guest:Because don't forget, there's a certain...
Guest:love for us and also a resentment yes because they think that we think we own the world now you and i are comedians we don't think we own the world but some americans do yeah and i know they know that yeah you know it's like when george bush was president i saw the gradual deterioration of their affection for us when you came over here during that time yeah especially the second time he was elected because the first time all right the second time like some guy in may like why did you do this yeah me exactly yeah
Guest:I was in Manchester, England, and this guy goes, you Americans.
Guest:I go, first of all, I'm a comedian.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's not like Bush confers with seven or eight comedians before he decides on some foreign policy.
Guest:Whether he should run again.
Guest:Yeah, I was just born there, you know, like you were born here.
Guest:I didn't do anything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And whether they, did you?
Guest:Well, the audience started clapping for me for saying that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because, like, I, you know.
Guest:What does some kid who's born in Iraq do to anybody?
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, he's born there.
Guest:You know, they just want to have a life like the rest of us.
Marc:I felt that when I was in Scotland, that there was this affiliation.
Marc:Like, you know, you're one of them.
Marc:You're part of that.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I live there.
Guest:Oh, about Bush?
Guest:About Bush, yeah.
Guest:He's your fault.
Guest:Right, he's our fault.
Guest:It's got nothing to do with it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But now it seems like all these places have their own comedy scene and it's much better and everybody seems to be... It seems thriving over here for fuck's sake.
Guest:It is, but they really love their own... It's funny that you would say for fuck's sake just for being here a couple days.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because we never say that, but... Really?
Guest:Did I just pick that up?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:That's rubbish.
Guest:Do you usually say, you're brilliant.
Guest:You're brilliant.
Guest:You know, you know, you're grand.
Guest:You're fucking grand.
Guest:Thanks a million.
Guest:Oh, thanks a billion for being so brilliant.
Guest:Oh, should I put this garbage in the bin?
Guest:Should I put my rubbish in the bin?
Guest:My rubbish in the bin.
Guest:What else did I say?
Guest:Where should I put the rubbish?
Guest:I'll collect you.
Guest:I'll collect you.
Guest:Like there's different parts of me all over.
Guest:I'm sorry that happened.
Guest:You know, when they pick you up, I'll collect you around nine.
Guest:Okay, I look forward to being collected.
Guest:Don't forget, my feet are in the bathroom.
Guest:Screw them all.
Guest:Oh, shit.
Guest:I remember when I was a doorman at the comedy store and you would go on over there.
Guest:You remember what a fucking freak show that was?
Guest:Yeah, of course I remember.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Now, what years were you a doorman?
Guest:I was just a doorman from, it was like 87 and a bit of 88.
Guest:That was really the pinnacle of it.
Guest:So many people were doing TV there.
Guest:That's when Roseanne was discovered.
Guest:Arsenio got a show out of there.
Marc:Yeah, but by the time I got there, that was done.
Marc:It was just Sam.
Marc:So the place had sunken into a demonic hole.
Marc:Yeah, that was scary.
Guest:And he always seemed to be above the whole thing.
Guest:Well, Sam said that, too, to me.
Guest:He says, you know, he says, you have a way of, like, you know, being friendly and being, but, you know, he says, you're just not a follower, are you?
Guest:I said, no, I don't want to be a leader either, but I'm not a follower.
Guest:I said, I could never be in your fucking outlaws.
Guest:Why would you want to be?
Guest:No, you know.
Guest:It's not your thing.
Guest:no well you know those guys i mean they had they did a lot of drugs i never did drugs i mean i'm just i just wanted to be funny and get go to fuck home you know yeah but you but like the guys you started out with like when you started at like the improv i mean yeah i mean mr wc fields mr groucho marks uh but did you what what was the plan you just wanted to be a comedian right no actually i was an actor and i did a lot of theater
Guest:actually you know i started in and uh i got my equity card through children's theater singing and they i did they thought i could dance because i was a good athlete yeah so i had to do all this tumbling and shit because i couldn't dance for the kids i could never do that one kick turn yeah the kids i was i was billy bones in treasure island i played the white rabbit in the wizard of oz is this on did you do this thing going hello
Guest:Hello, this house is working here.
Guest:What do you call a dog with no legs?
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:No matter what you call him, the dog is not coming, ladies and gentlemen.
Guest:You like that, kids?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, it was so weird because I'd be like the white rabbit, dressed in a white rabbit thing.
Guest:You couldn't see my face.
Guest:And these hot young mothers would come up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like 22 years old, beautiful girls.
Guest:And I had the back like a white rabbit.
Guest:I'm thinking, man, I love the fucking...
Guest:hop bunny hop on you and that's when you knew i gotta go into comedy no no rabbit's outfit i honestly as moronic as it sounds it sounds like it's contrived i honestly was such a bad waiter and i saw these guys like gilbert godfried and joe pisko becoming celebrities in new york at least because of the comic book i thought i can't do this waiter thing i know i could do stand-up
Guest:But the thing about, I had such an advantage because I did improv before.
Guest:So by the time I got on stage, I already had stage presence.
Guest:I just had no act.
Guest:And I couldn't even believe people did the same stuff over and over again.
Guest:That was hard for me to swallow.
Marc:I see kids learn that.
Marc:When the young guys learn that at the comedy store, when they're sitting in the back of the room, that horrible thing that happens on their faces.
Guest:They do the same thing.
Guest:They thought it was brilliant.
Guest:He did it three or four times already in a week.
Guest:Well, you try and do different stuff.
Guest:Well, you always did.
Marc:Yeah, no, no.
Marc:It's better for me if I have that moment where I don't know what the fuck's going on.
Marc:And it seems like when you do your jokes that within them you make room for something to happen.
Guest:Yeah, you like to go on a little rant or something.
Guest:Yeah, just something's got to happen different.
Marc:So we can be happy.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I mean, my theory is, my goal is to be so funny.
Guest:And if I can't think of anything really funny, do my act.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Not I have to get through my act.
Guest:I love when these guys go, well, I have to do 35 minutes because I build.
Guest:I tell stories.
Guest:I can't edit it.
Guest:It's not the Bible.
Guest:It's just comedy, for God's sake.
Guest:In all honesty, though, the funny thing about you is that as long as I've known you,
Guest:i've always laughed well that's good it's amazing that's good right because i yeah i'd be tired with most people but uh but you're always funny as long as i was nice to you when you were a doorman that makes me feel good because i love when people come up to you they go eddie griffin said to me he goes man you were always nice to me when i was a doorman i go you're supposed to be fucking nice that's not like it's not supposed to be an aberration that's normal people yeah
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:You don't wait till the guy becomes a big act and you go, well, now I'll be nice to him.
Guest:Well, you were always nice, but you also had that thing because I got sucked into the Kennison thing.
Guest:Oh, that's right, yeah.
Guest:And I forgot that you were associated with the end of that thing.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I left before all the shit hit the fan.
Marc:I mean, I hit my own fan.
Marc:But there was a sadness to it all because when you first get to the store, and you see it because you've been there a long time, you get these bright-eyed kids who are like,
Guest:i'm gonna be a comedian yeah and then you gotta sit and watch you know which shitty path they take right right you know very few get out unscathed how are they gonna fuck their lives up that's right they got a lot of things going for them right and then i knew that like i'd cross some line because you know you had this look on your face sort of like yeah good luck with uh oh yeah i remember i remember you getting involved with that yeah and it was sort of like you know i hope it works out like there's nothing anyone can do
Guest:yeah but it was you have to but because like just looking in your eyes like this i think i chose the wrong door that's amazing you remember that because i remember it yeah yeah i didn't want to lecture you you know it wasn't my place yeah and nobody could say anything but we did all right i mean 10 years ago you know i was a little dicey but i i seem happy right you seem great i mean the divorce i thought was going to break you it didn't it made you stronger
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:I saw, you know, I saw that look on your face.
Guest:It's a very hard thing to go through, that separation of all the fears and rejection and what did you do wrong.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I see pictures of myself and I'm like, this is a terrified, heartbroken man.
Guest:You think you're hiding it.
Guest:You're like, hey, what's going on?
Guest:But it was funny how when you were in that kind of pain, one of the great things, we'll talk about a catharsis and a relief is that we can express ourselves.
Guest:Oh, I know, yeah.
Guest:And you were going through and I could see, I could feel that fucking pain, you know, because I've been there, man, and it sucks.
Guest:It's awful.
Guest:You're always thinking about it.
Guest:Were you obsessed with thoughts?
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:If I let myself now, I can go back there.
Marc:That's one of the best jokes I have right now is that whole thing about when I heard she had a baby.
Marc:Here, I thought I was over the divorce, and I heard she had a baby, and my first thought was like, oh, that's your move?
Guest:yeah that's okay that's how you're gonna play it i gotta tell you mark and i i don't want to hurt your feelings you made a big mistake losing her i mean now your life will never be what it once was and anyway it was great being on your show you know thanks a lot no you know remember sophie that cute little french canadian girl yeah the worst fucking thing that people tell me is
Guest:why you and her broke up she was fucking smoking yeah yeah like you know it's like why don't you ask me for a phone number you prick i know she was smoking i fucked it up what do you want me to say yeah we're glad you threw it but jesus did you fuck up oh man it never goes away no yeah especially the pretty one so she had a baby yeah sophie had two babies since she saw me oh she really i'm not trying to top she really hated you she showed you i'll show you my little fucking twat work she told she had two at the same time
Guest:Twins?
Guest:No, she had one, like Irish twins, one every nine months or whatever.
Guest:But your ex-wife had a baby.
Guest:Then was she pregnant when you were getting divorced?
Marc:No, no, it all happened.
Marc:But you know, the weird thing is that you bring up is that the saddest part about it is that when you love somebody, who the hell knows if I'm capable of a real relationship or if it's ever going to work out?
Marc:Because we're nuts.
Marc:I mean, it's not an easy life we live.
Marc:The stronger the act, the more fucked up he is.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:right yeah and and the thing is is that though like and i and i know that you probably feel the same way like after all the bullshit is done you know i know why she left you know i can i can take responsibility for it but you know what i just miss looking at her well i do too that's the fucking worst i miss looking at her yeah well you can probably still look at you i got pictures here do you really do you really miss her like that
Guest:Well, it's like it's not even anything specific.
Marc:It's just her being.
Marc:You know, like sometimes I have dreams where it's like there's nothing in the dream other than I know that she's there.
Guest:Well, what happened?
Guest:Did she reject you or you rejected her?
Guest:She left me because I was like too angry and too crazy.
Guest:Get out of here, you.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It's surprising.
Guest:Let me talk to her.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You want to call her?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Let's call.
Guest:Let's get a part of the show.
Guest:I haven't talked to her in like a year and a half.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I did everything I did after she left me to hurt her.
Marc:And I don't know if I succeeded, but I haven't talked to her in a year and a half.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:See, I never let go completely.
Marc:I don't think you can.
Marc:Yeah, it's fucking horrendous.
Marc:And I try to get to the point where I'm like, you know, she just hired lawyers.
Marc:It wasn't like she was directing this, but fuck that.
Guest:She hired lawyers with both your money.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:That's nice.
Guest:I'm paying for you to fuck me.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:And that's how it works.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's why I did a one-man show.
Guest:It's like, this cost me a lot of money, this show.
Guest:To produce.
Guest:I would have liked to have played you in your one-man show.
Guest:I would love to see you play me.
Guest:I'd like to audition for you.
Guest:You know, when I take it on the roadway, when I franchise it by Becker in the caveman.
Guest:Dom Herrera playing Mark Maron in Marin.
Guest:All right, man.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:All right, buddy.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:i'm in the room with the uh the legendary des bishop who is an american but he's a fucking rock star in ireland yeah kind of well you know in that i i moved here when i was 14 and never really did a thing in america professionally and
Marc:But it's interesting because what's his name?
Marc:Carl said.
Marc:Is that his name?
Marc:Carl Spain.
Marc:Yeah, we just did a show together.
Guest:We should talk a little bit about what happened in a minute because I thought it was pretty good.
Guest:And you dealt with it really well.
Marc:We were doing a show.
Marc:I was a middle in, I guess.
Marc:Everyone does the same amount of time, I guess, roughly.
Marc:20 minutes.
Marc:Yeah, and I did a joke about the Catholic Church.
Marc:And some woman yells out, you can't make jokes about sexual abuse.
Marc:Were you sexually abused?
Marc:And then I responded to it.
Marc:And she goes, you know, I'm an ex-nun.
Marc:And this is 500 fucking people in the room.
Marc:And it bounced back all right.
Marc:I can't remember exactly.
Guest:I can't remember what happened, but it worked out great.
Guest:I mean, you built it up into a crescendo of applause.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And to be honest, I don't know why she piped up because your sentiment is the popular sentiment here.
Marc:Well, it was against the church.
Marc:I think the reason that she addressed it was like, you're still using child molesting as a punchline.
Guest:Yeah, which is, you're not really.
Guest:You're trying to make a pretty cool joke about something that affects us all.
Guest:And like in this country, a report comes out every six months that's like more and more.
Guest:It's fucking unbelievable.
Guest:Damning about what went on.
Marc:And everybody was on board with it.
Marc:You know, what happened that was even worse, which was amazing that I recovered from.
Guest:Well, that was the great recovery.
Marc:Oh, Jesus, man.
Marc:Here I was saying that, like, wouldn't it be funny if I left England and became a born again Catholic?
Marc:And then there was just death in the room.
Guest:And they're like, I made a mistake.
Marc:Like I said, oh, I made a mistake.
Marc:And the weird thing was, I don't even know why I made that mistake.
Marc:So I said, I've never even been to England.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:yeah it went great but i you know i think in fairness you uh it was quite obvious that you accidentally said england as opposed to the big mistake that people make is like big acts come here big international acts and they commonly say it's great to be in the uk yeah because in their minds they're doing like a uk tour and right dublin is like a stop on the uk tour right and they hate that chris rock did that yeah he never came back from it
Guest:Not really.
Guest:You know, it just gets, which is ridiculous that an Irish audience would let that get in their mind.
Guest:Like one simple geographical mistake will stop them liking the guy that they paid like 60 euros to see.
Guest:They're obviously huge fans of, but they won't let that go.
Marc:But there's definitely, there's a sense of pride here that's like impenetrable.
Marc:I mean, like they'll fucking turn on you.
Guest:Oh, they will.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But what Alan or Carl said to me before the show, the host, you know, because I was saying you're an American.
Marc:And he said, yeah, but he's more Irish than he is American in the sense that he said that, you know, he's able to show us us because, you know, he has both points of view.
Guest:yeah yeah i guess i they they say i have the outsider's understanding yeah is that what they say yeah what does that mean exactly i don't know man but that's uh that's been on every blurb that's ever been written about me you sound like you're from hell's kitchen for fuck's sake especially now with the scratchiness on my throat but where do you come from new york flushing queens all right yeah so i've got like a queen's accent
Guest:How'd you end up in Ireland?
Guest:I got kicked out of school when I was 14.
Marc:Got, yeah, just like... Your family sent you to live with relatives or what?
Guest:A crazy idea came up to go to boarding school in Ireland.
Guest:You came up with it?
Guest:The joke I used to say years ago was that at 14 I got kicked out of school because I had a massive problem with alcohol.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my mother came up with this ingenious idea to send me to Ireland of all places to go to boarding school, which is only partially true, but...
Guest:Yeah, man.
Guest:It's not even like, there's no great story to it.
Guest:The story is that a cousin of mine was visiting from Ireland.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I put the idea into my head.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I put the idea into my mother's head and next thing.
Guest:You're going to Ireland.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you have family here?
Guest:I have loads of family here.
Guest:More family here than in the States.
Guest:Like we're very Irish American.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:But what I liked about the fact that you were taking on the whole sexual abuse thing, which I guess at times can seem almost like old hat now.
Guest:So many people joke about it, but I was sent to a boarding school that ended up being the epicenter of one of the big,
Guest:reports about sexual abuse get the fuck out of here yeah my principal went to jail he died about six did you know what was going on no I didn't but there was you weren't hot enough I wasn't hot enough or else I was too streetwise yeah yeah yeah well here's a true story this is true
Guest:I walk into that school for the first time, end of August, 1990.
Guest:I'm 14 years old.
Guest:I've never been to Ireland in my life.
Guest:I've just left Flushing, Queens.
Guest:The woman who was like a friend of the family dropped me off at school.
Guest:Father Collins, I can name him because he's officially convicted, greets me at the door.
Guest:And this is no word of a lie.
Guest:The very first thing he said to me when he got me on my own was, now Desmond, there's a couple of words in Ireland that are different to the way that you would say them in America.
Guest:And one of them is the word fanny.
Guest:It's not the back, it's the front.
Guest:That's exactly what he said.
Marc:And then what did he say?
Marc:Can I see your fanny?
Guest:No, I didn't.
Guest:No, it wasn't that direct.
Guest:But I think I genuinely think he was trying to suss out my reaction and see, you know, because like he was obviously so sick that the only way he knew how to engage was to kind of like, I guess, in his mind.
Guest:Oh, sick.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Now, it's like, like, obviously, I don't want to make light of it because it's fucked up a lot of people.
Marc:But it's amazing to me, being here in Ireland, do you sense that there's definitely, there must be a shift about how the fucking people feel about the church.
Guest:The last two years, there's been a massive shift because big reports came out about institutional abuse.
Guest:There won't be many jokes flying out of my mouth now, but...
Guest:There was massive reports about institutional abuse, including a report called the Ryan Report, which was like about kids that were sent to kind of like juvenile delinquency centers, except that basically it was just a home for unwanted kids.
Guest:And like the type of abuse that went on there, like sexual abuse is only part of it.
Guest:The torture, like genuine torture was compared to Nazi concentration camps.
Guest:That's how bad it was.
Marc:What the fuck is wrong with this guy?
Guest:The report was like genuinely disgusting.
Guest:Like when you read it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And people marched in Dublin and there was a book of condolences because it was a book of condolences because it was just.
Marc:And how do they accept you here in general?
Marc:I mean, it's like it's interesting to me because you don't really work in the States at all.
Marc:Not much, but I have been doing lately.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But you sound really American to me.
Marc:Mm hmm.
Marc:So like but outside of the fact that, you know, like you're you're a big celebrity here.
Marc:I mean, I mean, I could understand why you wouldn't necessarily want to leave.
Marc:But because when you when you're a star in this in this country, there's only four million people here.
Guest:yeah there's only so much you can do but there's only so many hotel function rooms you can pack out before you know before you want like a decent cup of coffee before and after your show and not have to go through the kitchen of the hotel that smells like bad salmon and fried french fries we have those in the states oh yeah coffee i can't answer to yeah but i i don't know like why do they accept you so readily
Guest:well i think how it started like the trick i had i guess i had a bit of a gimmick at the start like i don't criticize myself for that but because you still think 20 years later that i sound like i'm straight out of hell's kitchen yeah people see me in ireland like especially back in those early days and i'm completely educated here i was in college when i started yeah and i have a degree in irish history yeah so i just knew all these things about ireland and i talked about all the things that i had seen when i came here that i saw through a 14 year old kid from queen's eyes and they were just like
Guest:I thought this guy was going to talk about Bill Clinton and now he's talking about stuff that we just can't believe he knows.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he has the accents to add to the stories.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:To them, it was just the most amazing thing ever.
Marc:Well, I think honestly that there are some Irish people in the States that are actually more Irish in terms of their sense of pride and connection to the country in a weird way.
Marc:They're aggressively Irish in the States.
Guest:Oh, yeah, but I think that's... Well, two things.
Guest:In America, the sense of identity and who you are is much more important than it is anywhere else in the world, I think.
Guest:Especially in a place like Queens.
Guest:As a community.
Guest:Yeah, we grew up with this sense of who we are.
Guest:We are part of the Irish tribe.
Guest:We happen to be living in America.
Guest:Especially Irish-American Catholics.
Guest:They get very offended about jokes about the church, much more than over here.
Guest:Ex-nons excluded.
Marc:I couldn't believe that.
Marc:But Colin Quinn's the same way.
Guest:Yeah, and I've talked to him a little bit about this.
Guest:You have?
Guest:Yeah, this whole thing, the tribe over there versus the tribe.
Guest:And of course, but there's also, in America, there's a nostalgia.
Guest:The Irish identity in America doesn't really exist anymore.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I believe in the Irish-American identity, but it's a separate thing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And Irish people over here resent it a bit as well.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, because there's that kind of like... They left?
Guest:Well, maybe.
Guest:Maybe.
Guest:You couldn't stick it out.
Guest:We ate the rotten potatoes.
Guest:You fecked off to McDonald's.
Guest:Yeah, you got a Big Mac.
Guest:But no, I don't know.
Guest:I think there's just this sense of we're really Irish and you're not really Irish, you know, and there's a denial of it.
Marc:Well, you like you're also sober, which is fucking baffling.
Guest:Yeah, well, I didn't make it too far.
Guest:19 years old.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So you've been sober, what, 20 years?
Guest:15 in next month.
Guest:So I find that, I mean, do you talk about that?
Guest:At times.
Guest:I mean, I haven't talked about it as much.
Guest:Like I've had other serious things go on for me, like cancer and other things.
Guest:And I've been more comfortable talking about that than about like sobriety.
Marc:Isn't that interesting?
Marc:Because like I found that that when I talked about it tonight and I have been talking about it, that there is like I couldn't quite figure out why some jokes weren't working and that thing worked OK.
Marc:But it's because there are certain things culturally that it's not a translation thing that Irish people just don't talk about certain things.
Guest:No, they don't.
Guest:I mean, you didn't watch my show, but one of the jokes I have is that Irish people are emotionally retarded.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If there was an emotional Olympics, Ireland would be in the special one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And over the years, rather than talk about like recovery stuff, I have talked a lot about Irish people's inability to express themselves, that repression and that shame.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But when you hear about all the stuff we were talking about 10 minutes ago, five minutes ago.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's so much abuse and there's so many secrets that even though it's a sad thing, for a lot of Irish people, they feel like if they open their mouth for five seconds about any of that stuff, something will explode inside themselves and the whole thing will come crashing down, which we know from being sober is not the case.
Marc:Yeah, all we do is talk about that shit.
Guest:Yeah, but fear is the fear of opening that stuff up.
Guest:And then there's that further denial where people actively...
Guest:dismiss if you were to do that so not only even if you have a desire to do it and you want to do it when you do it often people just like suck it up slam you down oh yeah shame you they they dismiss it and then you'll never say it again because there's nothing worse than being honest right and you know opening up a wound and somebody just a load of alcohol yeah yeah yeah so you know the atmosphere is not great for being open what the hell is that about did you ever think about it i mean why is it like that
Guest:Well, because the society is wounded, and it's a small society.
Guest:There's only 4 million people, 5 million if you include the North, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A lot of abuse, ferocious repression from the Catholic Church, because Ireland is unique in that the church had more power here than most other countries.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because even though the American Catholic Church had a lot of power,
Guest:they didn't have power over the whole of society i mean the catholic church basically enslaved ireland yeah but they like if you read the 1937 constitution yeah there's it's riddled with catholic morality and some of it is like completely irrational yeah and the the the government of the time amon de valera i mean his main confidant was archbishop john charles mcquade right he has turned out to be one of the greatest hiders of pedophilia ever
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there was just ferocious shame around all things sexual and they just had way too much of a reign to leave that stuff.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So the alignment of politics and the church, the church, you know, scared the fuck out of people and they had, they were in bed with the politicians who just exploited the whole situation.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, if you look at all those reports, I mean, the Garda Sheikana, the Irish police were just as implicit because they were the ones that were going and taking the kids and bringing them into these homes.
Guest:And even though individually they probably weren't bad guys, nobody would even allow themselves to fathom for a moment
Guest:that they could suggest that the church were doing something wrong.
Guest:And that only broke down in 1991.
Marc:But yeah, but this is one of those things where like even something like psychology or therapists, they don't, you know, I imagine that it's a tough racket here.
Guest:Yeah, but it's growing.
Guest:People are becoming more aware.
Guest:And I think if you talked about going to a therapist on stage five years ago, you might get a snigger.
Guest:You wouldn't get that now.
Guest:I mean, people understand.
Guest:And let's not forget that Ireland had 10 ridiculous years of economic prosperity that was completely out of proportion to the amount of money that could have existed in this country.
Guest:And that, in a way, spiraled out of control.
Guest:And that's just gone too.
Guest:So you're hitting Ireland at quite an open time.
Guest:You're hitting Ireland at a time where people are going, all right, maybe we need to rethink who we are.
Guest:I'm not as confident about our identity.
Guest:We've lost the church.
Guest:Now we've lost our new prosperity.
Guest:And so what is Ireland now?
Marc:Now we're back to normal.
Guest:2010.
Guest:Yeah, it's like the great hangover.
Guest:The whole country needs to go to a meeting.
Marc:Now, what about this drinking thing?
Marc:I mean, I can't like people.
Marc:I mean, I've never seen anything like it.
Guest:that's connected to the wound yeah we're talking about yeah yeah yeah a hundred percent but like jesus christ i mean like it's how they continue to go out i mean these streets in like three hours are just a fucking train wreck well that's what i wish i'd seen you said earlier because i would have said like this is where i i love getting under their skin about what's really going on when you're doing that
Guest:yeah and i would have loved to have seen because you were talking about oh the other thing about it is irish people probably don't identify as much with the whole uh like cocaine binge no i know i noticed that as much as they would identify with you know the darkness of just like not being able to stop and drink and i i like i like getting under their skin about what's really going on yeah which is what
Guest:Well, this is a joke I have in my current show.
Guest:My current show is all about my dad, and he's very ill, and he's dying.
Marc:Now?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Sorry.
Guest:Oh, it's cool.
Guest:I mean, you know, he's a good guy.
Marc:Is he here or is he in the States?
Guest:He's in the States.
Guest:He's in Flushing.
Guest:But I say sometimes when I'm in the mood, I say that essentially what I believe is that
Guest:underneath all the different layers in ireland like the crack which is the sort of surface level that were great fun the alcoholism the abuse and the anger you know underneath all those angers is a fundamental belief amongst irish people that no one gives a shit you know and when when left with nothing that nobody would care that they are hated because they are brought up with language of hate you know yeah
Guest:No hugs, no love, just slaps and people tell them that they're a piece of shit, right?
Guest:Like that is a common experience here.
Guest:And if an Irish person in some way can get the sensation that that is not the case, they will have this explosion, which refers to something that will make no sense now.
Guest:I'm talking about my dad having like an epiphany, right?
Marc:When he got ill?
Guest:uh yeah having yeah a bit of an epiphany and it just suits it just fits into my relationship with my father now and this this connection that we have that suggests that no matter what we do give a fuck about each other yeah that's sweet and irish people they don't get to that spot because they're too afraid to drop beneath it but if they ever could that would be the great epiphany and unfortunately it's it's booze that they're fucking on top of that wound how does that go over when you talk about that
Guest:At this stage, I've built up enough trust and life experience with the Irish audience that by the time I get to saying something like that, they do accept it.
Guest:Because to be honest, there's at least 30 to 40% of the people in the room that won't admit it, but they're thinking, that's what I really feel.
Marc:So what was the moment that you had with your father that made this bond?
Guest:Uh...
Marc:Like where you realized that he had surrendered some of that upbringing and there was a connection there.
Guest:Well, here's a big moment that happened.
Guest:I mean, I have a good relationship with my dad anyway.
Guest:He's sober too.
Guest:Like we've shared a lot of shit.
Guest:But he was a model and an actor before I was born.
Guest:And even though he's a great guy and he's done good in recovery, he, like, has carried around regrets, right?
Guest:And he was badly abused.
Guest:Like, his life was ferociously bad.
Guest:You know, like, it's actually hard to articulate how much shit he's gotten through, which is the comical thing that still, up until recently, he felt in some way that he hadn't done enough in his life, you know, even though he had survived ferocious abuse, alcoholism, and, you know, like... And show business.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he auditioned for James Bond, and I guess there was a period of time in his career where things were on the up, and it didn't really work.
Guest:Would people know him?
Guest:No, but he had some small parts in movies like Day of the Triffids and Zulu and stuff like that.
Guest:But he just worked as a retail manager in my life.
Guest:So basically, when I got into comedy especially, but all my life, he has expressed regrets about the fact that he had let that life go.
Guest:And in his mind, I think he always thought that if he had made it as an actor,
Guest:he would be more comfortable with who he is as a human being, like genuine regrets.
Guest:And long story short, he was in the hospital diagnosed with lung cancer, small cell lung cancer, incurable.
Guest:And I came home and we were just around him, strong family stuff.
Guest:And just me and him were in a hospital room and he says,
Guest:do you know something man and just let me say before he says this right like i have actually expressed dissatisfaction to my father in the past about the amount of pressure he puts on me to never give up my job yeah because he's basically saying like there are some miserable parts of me as a result of the regrets that i have right and i i don't i don't like that motivation i don't consider it a healthy motivation you know go succeed for me
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Or even just like, don't let yourself have these regrets that I have.
Guest:So out of nowhere, unprompted by me, he turns around and says, do you know something?
Guest:I've really had genuine regrets.
Guest:Like, I really felt like there were things I should have and could have done in my life.
Guest:But I'll tell you something.
Guest:When you get sick and your sons turn up to the plate...
Guest:You know, it's an amazing feeling.
Guest:And if I snuff it tomorrow, I'll die a happy man.
Guest:That's exactly what he said.
Guest:If I snuff it tomorrow, I'll die a happy man.
Guest:And like, I actually have goosebumps now just saying it because I just thought of all the things that this man could say, that was the ultimate thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like if he did die that next day, which he didn't, he's still alive.
Guest:i would have felt complete i would have had no right unsaid things to say yeah you know and uh i mean when i say that my dad had this epiphany i mean it what i genuinely felt was after that that he was 100 complete because he had realized with the the clarity of death's imminence yeah that those things are irrelevant like a hundred percent irrelevant yeah
Guest:you know and like the family and the wonderful job that he did for us and all these things yeah they are like infinitely more important right no matter how much our brain can take us back to a place where we would say it could have been so much better yeah and like that's what i meant when i said like when a man truly realizes yeah that people genuinely give a shit yeah
Guest:that to me is greater than any spiritual awakening or enlightenment that you can have.
Marc:To know that you're loved and that you can accept it and you can give it back.
Guest:Yeah, and that you can actually be proud of your achievements because the raising of a family in a humble way in Flushing, Queens is purely heroic as opposed to playing a hero in some fucking movie.
Guest:That's a much more heroic thing.
Marc:Well, that's a beautiful sentiment, and I think it's a good way to end the talk, man.
Guest:Yeah, thanks, Mark.
Guest:Yeah, thanks a lot, guys.
Marc:We're shaking hands, just in case you...
Marc:Okay, so I've got two more shows tonight.
Marc:Last night's shows, I think I finally figured it out.
Marc:I finally figured out how to communicate with the audiences here.
Marc:It went well.
Marc:And I'm just starting to realize that some jokes are not going to work despite the fact that they work fine in America.
Marc:And I think that the reason is that culturally there's some things that just aren't funny.
Marc:And it's not a language thing.
Marc:It's a tone thing.
Marc:I guess what I'm saying is a couple of my jokes that I usually close with are just reading as sad.
Marc:So either I need to tag them a little heavier to relieve the sadness, which certainly the Irish are, you know, like that.
Marc:They like sadness relief.
Marc:It's a national pastime.
Marc:Or I just got to put them earlier in the set.
Marc:But things are looking up.
Marc:I didn't give up.
Marc:And tonight, my last two shows, I think it's all going to turn around for me.
Welcome to the Save from America, Mark Moran!
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Hey, how's it going?
Guest:I'm American.
Guest:Let's try to fucking deal with that.
Guest:Perfect.
Guest:After that, that's great.
Guest:I got a question.
Guest:I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable.
Guest:I've been here for a week.
Guest:What are you doing with your black people?
Guest:You can tell me.
Guest:I mean, there's none of them here.
Guest:There's none anywhere here.
Guest:I mean, I've been to other cities in the world, and they have black people in there.
Guest:So I want to speak up.
Guest:Wait, is that what black pudding is?
Be honest with you.
Guest:You guys have been great.
Guest:Thank you very much.
Guest:Come on!
Marc:Okay, well, that's it, folks.
Marc:That is the Kilkenny Festival as I experienced it.
Marc:I can't say that I conquered, but I survived.
Marc:Even a little better than that, which I think is not unlike the Irish themselves.
Marc:Did not want to go home.
Marc:Feeling like I had been rejected by an entire culture and country again.
Marc:It was a beautiful time.
Marc:I liked being here.
Marc:But I'm starting to lose touch with who I am.
Marc:And I'm not Irish.
Marc:But a lovely time.
Marc:Lovely people.
Marc:Learned a lot.
Marc:Hope you had a good time on my trip with me.
Marc:I'm looking forward to coming home.
Marc:As always, go to WTFpod.com for all your WTF needs.
Marc:Donate a little money.
Marc:Or you can get on the mailing list.
Marc:That's important.
Marc:Mailing list.
Marc:I've been very diligent about sending you people emails.
Marc:You can also look at our sponsors.
Marc:JustCoffee.coop is there.
Marc:I wish I had some sort of pithy Irish way to close, but I don't have that.
Marc:I'll come back to Ireland.
Marc:But right now, I need to get to the States.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I'll see you there, I hope.
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