Episode 788 - Norah Jones / Pete Holmes
Guest:Lock the gates!
Guest:Alright, let's do this.
Guest:How are you, what the fuckers?
Guest:What the fuck buddies?
Guest:What the fuckineers?
Guest:What the fucksters?
Guest:What the fuckadelics?
Guest:What the fucknicks?
Marc:The very important what the fucknicks.
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast, WTF.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:Today on the show, you know, sometimes you get an opportunity to talk to people and you never thought you'd have that opportunity.
Marc:But like recently I got the opportunity.
Marc:I was asked if I would talk to Nora Jones and I'm like, she's a great singer.
Marc:That's interesting.
Marc:Her dad is Ravi Shankar.
Marc:That's got to be cool.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, yeah, let's talk to her.
Marc:So I talked to her today.
Marc:I also had Pete Holmes in here, which, you know, for me.
Marc:is um good and and it's it's nice and it can be difficult me and pete have a thing but we've both gotten older we've both sort of leveled off to some degree i'd like to think i have i think i have i think i'm doing better i do want to say that i am pre-recording this uh particular intro that did you know a couple of days beforehand
Marc:Not even that that matters, but in the world we live in, who knows what's going to happen.
Marc:So if I don't address something that it seems like it requires addressing, which I don't necessarily do anyways, if it happened yesterday, I ain't going to address it because this happened a few days ago.
Marc:How's that for time jumping?
Marc:So look.
Marc:If you have Sirius XM radio, you can tune it to the E Street radio channel this week and you'll wind up hearing my interview with Bruce Springsteen at some point.
Marc:They're playing it throughout the day until Sunday.
Marc:It's still available here, too, at WTFPod.com.
Marc:But I'm just telling you, just sending a little love towards the Sirius station.
Marc:Bruce wanted it on, so they put it on.
Marc:Thought that was pretty cool.
Marc:You know, I'm going to be a little self-centric if I could, because when I'm down or when I'm not feeling good about myself or the world or whatever, I need to talk to you.
Marc:You know, my connection with you is very important.
Marc:I'll read a few emails.
Marc:I do not want you to think I'm doing it to toot my own horn, per se, but I think there is a logic to it.
Marc:Let's see if I can get to it.
Marc:Subject line, Charlotte.
Marc:Hey, Mark, I just wanted to say great job last night at the Night Theater in Charlotte.
Marc:It's so nice as an audience member to know that the guy on stage...
Marc:really knows what he's doing, and that if we just give in to whatever he's got planned for the next hour or so, we all go on this journey together, having some laughs and hopefully learn something.
Marc:I've seen you live a couple of times now, and both times it felt like I was watching something special.
Marc:Keep doing what you do, Todd.
Marc:In North Carolina.
Marc:Thank you, Todd.
Marc:It was a powerful show for me because I, as you know, I've been a little tangled up.
Marc:I've been a little overwhelmed.
Marc:I've been a little hopeless in some respects.
Marc:So entering a show like that with the need to talk and the need to connect creates something very present.
Marc:I can't do it without being present.
Marc:This is the thing.
Marc:I can't just do an act.
Marc:I got an act.
Marc:I got stuff I'm working through.
Marc:I got jokes that I know I've done many times.
Marc:I leave a lot of room for whatever happens and to, you know, have feelings within the thing.
Marc:That's just the way I do it.
Marc:And that's why I'm going to read this letter.
Marc:And this is not, you know, again, I'm not trying to toot my own horn.
Marc:Obviously, I like hearing this stuff.
Marc:But I just wanted to address it because I'm going to have Pete on.
Marc:We're going to talk about comedy stuff.
Marc:Subject line.
Marc:Charlotte show.
Marc:Question number two.
Marc:Hey, Mark, thanks for the laughs tonight, man.
Marc:Show is incredible.
Marc:And you and Blair killed it.
Marc:I was the guy who asked you about the first stand up show.
Marc:I took a few questions.
Marc:I do that occasionally.
Marc:Appreciate your answer.
Marc:And the museum joke was hilarious.
Marc:I actually performed one of my first jokes ever wrote for the people in Charlotte because of that question.
Marc:I wanted to ask you another question when you peeked out the curtain, but five humans were in my way.
Marc:Here's my second try.
Marc:How do you deal with the fear of bombing?
Marc:Thanks again for the show.
Marc:Definitely coming out to another one if I can.
Marc:Manny, how do you deal with the fear of bombing?
Marc:It's always there, man.
Marc:It's always there.
Marc:You just deal with it.
Marc:And eventually, hopefully, your fear tends to go away a bit.
Marc:And you find a sort of weird freedom in bombing.
Marc:It's necessary.
Marc:If you got to try new shit or you take risks, you're going to bomb.
Marc:But that's just part of the fucking job.
Marc:I mean, you shouldn't bomb when you get to a certain level.
Marc:You should, you know, have enough material and be responsible enough to your audience and professional enough to try to put on the best show possible.
Marc:But even if that doesn't go well, that's just a liability of the business, of the craft.
Marc:But the fear, I don't know.
Marc:I'll let you know when it goes away.
Marc:But talking about bombing, I talked to Pete Holmes for a little bit.
Marc:He's got a new show on HBO, which I'm okay with.
Marc:It's called Crashing.
Marc:You can watch episode one on HBO now.
Marc:And then it's on every Sunday night at 1030.
Marc:And it's about him starting out as a comic.
Marc:So this is sort of a comics conversation.
Marc:So enjoy it.
Marc:comedy lovers and comedians and then me and peter we're getting along all right so this is me and pete holmes
Guest:Somebody like me, I like having a little bit of chaos in the house.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, the dogs peed in every room of the house, and that's actually good for me.
Guest:Yeah, why?
Guest:Because it uncovered ways I didn't even know that I was uptight.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Because, like, the dog would pee, would have company over it, get excited, and then it'd pee, smiling, looking at you as this hot piss pools on the ground.
Guest:And this dark cloud.
Guest:It was, like, despair adjacent.
Guest:It wasn't just anger.
Guest:I was, like...
Guest:Fuck the universe.
Guest:Like it was worse than the sum of its parts.
Guest:It triggered me in this way that I couldn't understand.
Marc:And what do you make of that?
Guest:I have no idea.
Guest:Well, I do have, I have a theory and I wonder.
Guest:Control issue?
Guest:I think my mother is a little bit like a needy dog.
Oh yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's a terrible thing to say.
Guest:But when we first got my dog, like I really enjoyed him.
Guest:And then my mom came and visit and kind of ruined it because I was like, oh, this is this is how I kind of felt growing up was I have this thing and sometimes it pisses on the floor and sometimes it loves you and you're not sure what to do.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And with the dog, you give it a fucking bone and it's fine.
Marc:You clean up.
Marc:It's a dog.
Marc:It's fine.
Marc:With your mother.
Marc:It's ongoing.
Marc:It is.
Marc:There's no there's no bone to give.
Guest:I wrote myself an email and it was like how to talk to my mother.
Marc:You wrote yourself an email.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And it was like, read this every time before you call.
Marc:Sort of like a pep talk.
Guest:A little pep talk.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Some guiding points.
Guest:It's almost like a translation.
Guest:It's almost like English to mom translations.
Guest:Because sometimes I get that impulse to call home because you have like a happiness surplus.
Marc:That never drives me to call home.
Marc:If I want to waste that surplus.
Guest:That's what it is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, you're pushing the money forward.
Marc:I don't suffer from happiness surpluses too often, but I understand the idea.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I'm like, I think I can handle it.
Marc:Oh, no, I definitely know that one.
Marc:It's like, here's my window.
Marc:I'm feeling good about myself.
Guest:And sometimes they double the money and they're nice and sometimes they take the money.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But also usually those are the moments where you're like, I have boundaries right now.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:I'm going to try it.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:That's it.
Guest:I feel strong.
Guest:It's like after therapy, I'll call my mother.
Guest:I'll be like, here we go.
Guest:I just talked to a guy.
Guest:I made it sound so simple.
Guest:I feel good.
Guest:And then she makes me make another appointment.
Guest:But what's on that list?
Marc:It's sort of like, don't do this.
Guest:It's don't speak from your head.
Guest:It's like heart stuff.
Guest:It's like I was just in New York promoting the show, which is why I'm here.
Guest:And I'm so grateful for the opportunity.
Guest:Thanks for having me.
Guest:And I went to New York to do like, it was crazy busy.
Guest:It was like, you do the Today Show and then you do this.
Marc:And then you had your four seconds on the Today Show.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And you got to get up at like five.
Marc:Three people talking at the same time.
Guest:And you got to figure out how to say two things.
Guest:And there's so many things you can't say, like, and it's live.
Marc:There's just literally no time.
Guest:There's no time.
Guest:To do anything.
Guest:I said nothing, and nothing much was a compliment.
Marc:Yeah, they sit there.
Marc:They set it up by explaining the show entirely.
Marc:You say one thing.
Marc:One of them says something.
Marc:You say something back, and they're like, okay.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:Thanks for getting up.
Guest:What else did you do?
Guest:Well, then I went on the same day we did like Colbert and Charlie Rose and I'm forgetting, Rachel Ray.
Guest:I did the morning show.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Rachel Ray.
Guest:So I'm telling my mom that it's like back to back to back stuff.
Guest:And all she says, like the fantasy is you want your mother to be like, oh my God, that's so exciting.
Guest:Charlie Rose.
Guest:Oh my God, that's so exciting.
Guest:I can't believe you're doing Colbert.
Guest:What's that like?
Guest:And instead she just goes, well, then you're close to Boston.
Guest:You can visit.
Marc:Oh, right, right.
Marc:And then I come at it.
Marc:Which comes across as like just erasing.
Guest:everything i just said yeah yeah it's just like well then dismissing your accomplishments how does this serve me you know what i mean and i'm just like oh fuck my face so i would go mom you don't understand you're not listening to me i'm very busy and she's like well just stay one more day and i'm like well i gotta fly back right the premiere is that day right and then you're like you don't even know what my premiere is you're like getting like a baby
Guest:The email I wrote to myself was like, when will you visit?
Guest:Here's what you say.
Guest:Oh, that would be so great.
Guest:I wish I could.
Guest:That would be so fun.
Guest:I love you so much.
Guest:I love coming home.
Guest:It's nice to spend time with you.
Guest:You're really buttering it up.
Guest:You don't have to say all of those things, but that's the attitude that I think she's looking for.
Marc:I say, I can't.
Marc:I have no time.
Marc:I just saw you four months ago.
Guest:But you know, you start to get a sense for what people want.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And my mom just wants, she doesn't need the visit.
Guest:She just needs me to say, I wish I could.
Marc:Well, that's right.
Marc:But that's always one of those weird things when they want you to visit for a day.
Marc:It's like, what do you think happens that day?
Marc:Buddy, that's all I say.
Guest:She's like, I wish you could stay one more day.
Guest:I'm like, mom, three days is the max.
Guest:We start arguing after that.
Guest:What?
Guest:She, you know, I think I know what she's expecting.
Guest:She's expecting seven-year-old wiffle cut boy to come home.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And be like.
Marc:And he might on the fourth day.
Marc:Ah!
Guest:I might revert.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And it's very weird for her to be like, no, mom, I'm getting a hotel.
Guest:No, mom, I don't want you to sit on my lap when my girlfriend is in there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Or ever.
Marc:Or ever.
Marc:Could you not do that?
Marc:Could you not?
Marc:Can we try to keep it appropriate?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I've used girlfriends and wives to sort of shield me.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I tell them.
Marc:I'm like, just don't let her.
Guest:I've been in a situation, I hope this isn't too fucked up, but I have been in a situation where girlfriend here, mother here.
Guest:So to my right is my girlfriend, to my left is my mother.
Guest:Girlfriend's hand here, kind of in her thigh.
Guest:Mother's hand slightly closer on the other side.
Guest:Closer to the back.
Guest:You're like two romantic things.
Marc:Not a good threesome.
Guest:Nope.
Nope.
Guest:not one of the good ones yeah and you know that you know it's actually you know shows like yours and and any talk of boundaries yeah it was very helpful but very hard to put those up and that's something that we kind of explore on crashing yeah it's a hard thing well yeah you're breaking everyone's boundaries with your needy ass self that's right yeah i didn't
Marc:I don't know if there was a press package, but I watched the first one last night.
Marc:Did you really?
Marc:I did watch it.
Marc:I can't believe it.
Marc:I knew the idea for the show because I talked to you or talked to Judd about it.
Marc:It's somewhat based on truth.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I know that you did get a divorce, but the way that you kind of...
Marc:You do feel bad for you.
Marc:But with me in that relationship with you, it goes from I feel bad for him to I get mad at you.
Guest:Yeah, I understand.
Guest:No, I get it.
Guest:I completely get it.
Guest:In fact, when I watch the show, I'm rooting for my wife to leave.
Guest:In the first 30 seconds, I'm like, this guy's not giving her what she needs.
Guest:And that was very important to me.
Guest:It was almost like a therapeutic exercise to consider her side of things.
Marc:Well, when you were writing that, I mean, like you, it obviously didn't go down like the real thing, did it?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:We, you know, it's emotionally true.
Guest:It's not factually true.
Guest:I didn't walk in on them.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It was more, she told me.
Marc:Right.
Guest:It was even more annoying.
Guest:I was even more oblivious.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It had gone on for a while.
Guest:It was going on for months.
Guest:And like, I was just like, gee, we seem a little bit distant.
Guest:Right.
Guest:We haven't had sex in a while.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I blamed it on the fact that we had moved upstate.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There was this physical distance.
Guest:I was going into the city to do shows.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:And then she was having this affair, unfortunately.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, this guy, well, it was funny because the guy that you chose, you know, has to be the, you know, in some ways, the worst scenario.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The guy who's like immediately negotiating.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And trying to make you feel better about, you know, this inevitable thing.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And not really taking any responsibility for it at all.
Guest:He's almost like two, the character is played by George Basil, who's amazing, and he's likable.
Guest:Where'd you find that guy?
Guest:I met him at a party, and I was like, what is your deal?
Guest:Why aren't you famous?
Guest:You're so funny.
Guest:He's an improv guy.
Guest:Oh, he is?
Guest:In New York or here?
Guest:I met him out here, but I think he was in New York for a time.
Guest:And I don't know if you ever run into those people and you're just like, I don't get it.
Guest:You're like a funnier Matthew McConaughey type.
Guest:This is amazing.
Guest:And then years later, because show business takes fucking forever, I'm like, yeah, I think I have something for you.
Guest:And he came in and killed it.
Guest:But he's almost like too evolved.
Guest:He's so evolved in that like hippie way that he's like, it's all in the game, man.
Guest:Yes, I fucked your wife.
Guest:But like, this is how it works.
Guest:This is the pain that's going to.
Guest:And you're like, I don't want to hear this shit.
Marc:You fucked my wife.
Marc:What are you going to do in that moment?
Marc:And I, you know, look, I love Artie and he certainly shined in this fucking episode.
Marc:Yeah, he's great.
Marc:I mean, thank God he was there.
Marc:The show would have been garbage, but he really is a bit, I know you're breaking balls.
Guest:He's, I have to say, I know you're breaking balls, but in all seriousness,
Guest:Artie's a huge reason why the show got picked up.
Guest:He's a huge reason why the pilot and a lot of- Is he recurring or- He's in four out of eight and he's amazing.
Guest:But in that scene, we had this very well-scripted- Before the first, the scene where-
Marc:After the comedy show?
Guest:Yeah, after the comedy show.
Guest:He takes me to buy a piece of pizza.
Guest:And we had it all scripted out.
Guest:And Artie hasn't acted in 14 years.
Guest:And you're watching him in this thing and you're like, what the fuck?
Guest:This guy is amazing.
Guest:And we had it scripted.
Guest:But we started rolling.
Guest:We shot it on film.
Guest:And the reason I mention that is because there's only like 12 minutes in a reel.
Guest:So we started rolling.
Guest:Why'd you do that?
Guest:Judd wanted it to look pretty like a movie.
Guest:Interesting.
Marc:Because there's so many people that you would think would be real holdouts with the film that have really kind of just said, fuck it.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Scorsese is a big standout.
Guest:Friedkin.
Guest:I think it might be possible to make digital look like film, but I think you need someone amazing doing it.
Guest:It might be possible, but you still need a lot of effort to do it.
Guest:So we made it kind of foolproof.
Guest:But we start rolling the film and we have the script, like I said.
Guest:And then instead of doing it, Judd just goes...
Guest:Artie, talk about what you would tell a comedian who's naive and doesn't know anything about the world.
Guest:And then Artie just talked for 15 minutes.
Guest:The whole reel, not one line of the script.
Guest:Right.
Guest:At the end, they roll out and go, you hear the sound of the film.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Everyone applauded.
Guest:Like, everybody just cheered.
Guest:It was such a heartwarming moment for Artie, who everyone's rooting for.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, he can sometimes get in his own way or whatever.
Guest:He'll tell you the same.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Sometimes?
Yeah.
Marc:No, he's great.
Marc:I love him.
Marc:I love him.
Marc:And he was so funny.
Guest:It had some real, he wears his heart on his sleeve and that's what we needed.
Guest:And kind of like what you've done to me in ways that I appreciate.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Also just funny ways.
Marc:He was a little more diplomatic.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He gives you that like, what the fuck are you doing?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You think you're just going to waltz in and get a show?
Marc:He wears this art on his sleeve in the way that somebody who couldn't go any lower has to.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like there's nothing that's going to happen to Artie.
Marc:That hasn't already.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:In a way, the worst has already happened.
Marc:And that emboldens him, I think.
Marc:Well, but it also gives him this very unique perspective.
Marc:Because he still somehow, when he's engaged in conversation and he's not fucked up, you know, he is a very wise kind of dude.
Guest:And that's one of the things we want to show on the show is the unlikely canopy.
Guest:Here's this guy, and he seems like the guy that would have it together.
Guest:You know, he's religious and he's clean and he's married.
Marc:Yeah, you lean on that pretty early.
Marc:So like they set up the show, I should say that it's about Pete starting out as a comic, about you starting out as a comic.
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Marc:Your wife, you catch her with another dude and now you're just alone.
Marc:You leave the house that you had together and you're wandering, but you're committed to comedy.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And secretly in love with comedy the whole time, which is a dirty secret.
Marc:You're listening.
Marc:You go, you focus in on the Jesus picture in the kitchen.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Listening to Jesus tapes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Joel Osteen.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Can I tell you something about that?
Marc:Okay.
Guest:I think you'll enjoy this story because I used to like Joel Osteen a lot.
Guest:I would listen to Your Best Life Now on audio tape and it's just, you can hear him smiling and he's just like, you know, God's favor.
Guest:He wants you to step into his favor.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He wants you to be happy.
Guest:and rich and successful and all these things.
Guest:I really loved it.
Guest:And then my wife fucked another guy.
Guest:And then I laid on my bed.
Guest:I was trying to cheer myself up.
Marc:In the car, you put that back on after.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:And I take it out.
Guest:And that's based on this moment.
Guest:I put it in my ears and he's like, God is watching you.
Guest:God is protecting his children.
Guest:And I was just like, not only did it not make any sense, I couldn't even understand a time in my life when it would have made sense.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that's kind of what we're showing when Pete ejects the CD, is there's a paradigm shift.
Guest:I don't know if I picked up on that specifically.
Guest:It takes a few viewings.
Marc:Well, now you're asking a lot.
Guest:You know, it's always on there.
Guest:Not today, not tomorrow, but it's sometime.
Guest:But that's the feel that we're going for, is Pete had an idea that God was going to protect him and that he was kind of in the protection plan.
Marc:Right, but you don't lose your faith.
Guest:No, but it's going to get chipped and reconstructed for sure throughout the first season.
Guest:And that's something that's very exciting to me because you don't see a lot of religion on shows.
Marc:No, you don't.
Marc:And also you don't see that struggle of a guy who...
Marc:is a believer and really uses it and relies on it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then, you know, has a crisis of faith.
Guest:Well, that's what I think gives the show stakes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Is most people, you know, your wife leaves you in a show or a movie.
Guest:The next scene is the guy at a bar trying to get some strange.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like you just go out and fuck it.
Marc:Or destroying his wife somehow.
Guest:Or doing coke or whatever.
Guest:I had people tell me they were like, hey, I've been there.
Guest:Do some coke.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Literally.
Guest:Just get some coke.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I did everything after I broke up with my second wife.
Marc:I did everything outside of drinking and drugging.
Marc:Is that right?
Marc:Well, I mean, mostly women, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Well, that's how people that are, they think it's a good idea, but ultimately, it's a good idea if you want to actually ruin sex for yourself.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah, that's right.
Marc:We have really fucked up associations with or just just sort of like, you know, once you start using sex specifically as a drug.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You might damage the possibility of it becoming an intimate connection ever again.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What is the arc of the show in terms of action?
Marc:You just move from place to place.
Guest:Well, that was what made it feel like a TV show.
Guest:Obviously, I was like, oh, this is what happened to me.
Guest:I grew up very religious.
Guest:I married the first girl I ever dated.
Guest:And then after six years, she fucked a small Italian man named Rocco.
Guest:So that's obviously my story.
Guest:But what made it feel like a TV show was I was like, oh, then every episode I'm staying with a different comedian.
Guest:I don't have any money.
Guest:I don't have any reason.
Guest:I'm not good.
Guest:I can't make money.
Guest:And it's kind of telling the story of how people like TJ Miller in real life, John Mulaney in real life, Nick Kroll in real life really did rise to the occasion.
Guest:So that made it feel episodic.
Marc:So where we're going.
Marc:What do you mean in real life they did?
Guest:In real life.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They helped you out at that time.
Marc:A lot of people knew you.
Marc:Kyle Kinane knew you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A lot of great.
Guest:These were great guys that came for emotional support when you were really going through this.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:I'm sure, have you experienced the same thing where it's like, I'm talking to a degenerate right now and he's really healing my heart.
Marc:Oh no, yeah, that's what comedy is.
Marc:Except we're the degenerates healing our own hearts.
Marc:It's a big degenerate bunch.
Marc:It is a big degenerate bunch.
Marc:But they're sensitive guys.
Guest:And then that's one of the stories that I wanted to tell was like there is this thing that not a lot of people report where we can help each other.
Guest:I know there's backstabbing and there's competition, but I don't even have to ask.
Guest:I'm sure you've helped people, whether it's financially or emotionally or whatever it is.
Marc:Of course.
Guest:And that's what makes our little scene go round.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And even the hardest of them, seemingly hardest of the people.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Go to a tell first.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like these are the sweethearts.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What?
Guest:So where it's going, I mean, we have Sarah Silverman, we have TJ Miller, we have Hannibal makes appearances.
Guest:These are kind of the guest stars for the first season.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then we watch Pete.
Guest:I like to say it's about like a breakup with his wife, a breakup with his parents.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And a breakup with his traditional understanding of God.
Guest:So it's like everything falling apart slowly.
Marc:How was the creative process?
Marc:How did it work?
Guest:judd and i would break the stories typically i'd pitch him a story that me and some of the writers had come up with and then judd would like take that and go like it's only like a good example you'd be like well uh what if pete works uh on a tour bus like that's a job that comedians get and he'd be like yeah but you got to get rid of your stuff so what if your wife has a yard sale yeah and then you'd just go with that you know like okay it was almost like visiting the oracle you know sure sure but it's just the two of you breaking after the writer's room
Guest:Yes, it would often be he and I, and then sometimes Judah Miller.
Guest:Did you get the board out?
Guest:I would just frantically be taking notes, and then I'd pitch him a story, and if he liked it, I'd go off and write it.
Guest:I like dialogue and jokes.
Marc:Where'd the writers come in?
Marc:Who was writing on it?
Guest:We didn't have a traditional writer's room in a sense.
Guest:We gathered comedians to share stories so we would get the tone of what's it like going to Albany and opening for a guy who's not your style of comedy and would share war stories and stuff.
Guest:But then a lot of it was so personal.
Guest:And I know you know what this is like.
Guest:It's like, you guys, only I can write the episode about my parents.
Guest:I'm not going to hear pitches on what my dad says when he says pass the ketchup because he says pass the Irish gravy.
Guest:That's what he says.
Guest:Right.
Guest:We had a lot of different heads to the monster.
Guest:You know, monster or beast or whatever you want to say.
Guest:I'm in the room and the writers are trying to please me.
Guest:I'm trying to please Judd.
Guest:And at the end of the day, this is a Judd Apatow show.
Guest:In fact, we were joking.
Guest:We're like, oh, look at all the reviews.
Guest:People are really responding to the fact that Pete is innocent and kind of sweet and clean.
Guest:And he was like, remember, you were pitching me that you meet a girl and you go down on her and you start crying while you're going down on her.
Guest:Because I thought it would be like a funny set piece.
Guest:He was like, see?
Guest:He didn't say it, but he was like, this is why you need me, baby.
Guest:And I was like, you're fucking A right, man.
Guest:And your life is good?
Guest:Life is good.
Guest:Just got engaged.
Guest:I don't know if you know that.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How long have you been with her?
Guest:I love you got concerned all of a sudden.
Marc:Congratulations.
Marc:I don't always say the right thing right away.
Guest:No, it was beautiful and honest.
Guest:I'm doing a show about a marriage falling apart as I'm getting engaged, which is very healing, actually.
Guest:It feels kind of cosmically beautiful.
Guest:But we've been dating four years.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And we've been living together for like two and a half almost.
Marc:Oh, that's exciting.
Guest:And she's the best.
Guest:oh good she's not in show business she's just a sweet excited and the last time i think i saw you or had a conversation with you where you were looking to buy a house or yeah that's where we've been living for two years yep you helped me with that i was like what is it again you're one of my dads i go what's a down payment what's a reasonable amount of interest and you'd be like well this this this and you have a good place
Guest:I love where we live.
Guest:We live in the east side.
Guest:Over here?
Guest:Well, not far from here.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And if I can't walk to things, I'm not going.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:I'm kind of bad like that.
Marc:Oh, you still hold on to the walking.
Oh.
Guest:I've managed to keep a walk life.
Guest:Well, there's only a couple of places you can do that here.
Marc:This is one of them.
Marc:Yeah, that's definitely one of them.
Guest:But you can walk to the movies.
Marc:You can walk to a restaurant.
Guest:It's like this neighborhood.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's that same sort of feel.
Marc:No movies here.
Marc:But yeah, you can walk down there and there's people doing things.
Marc:Colorful pizza places.
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Guest:That happened.
Guest:Yeah, that's very nice.
Marc:Yeah, that all turned around.
Guest:So life is kind of absurdly good.
Marc:And you're touring at all or not yet?
Guest:We've been touring to promote the show.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:We have one.
Guest:I think it's sold out, but I don't know when this is coming out.
Marc:I think we're going to put it up Thursday.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Then it's over.
Marc:What do you mean?
Marc:What do you think?
Marc:I was going to put it up tomorrow?
Guest:No, I wasn't expecting to plug the dates, but we did a little tour with Artie and Judd and some of the other people on.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Which going to Philly, man.
Guest:And it's Artie fans.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:I got off stage.
Guest:I was like, they yelled show your tits twice.
Guest:And he was like, are you kidding?
Guest:That's good.
Guest:He's like, you only got two show your tits.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Wow!
Guest:So they were rowdy in Philly, but they were great.
Guest:And then New York.
Guest:They liked you?
Guest:I did okay.
Guest:I got back sweat.
Guest:I don't judge by laughs, I judge by back sweat.
Guest:Yeah, Philly's hard.
Guest:It wasn't my favorite.
Guest:I hope to come back and I'm grateful for my fans that were there, but some of the arty people were like,
Guest:Who is this guy?
Guest:I do a lot of jokes about like, we're all a little bit gay as a theme through some of my jokes.
Guest:They're like, not me, bro.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:I have a joke about like, everybody knows what a good looking man looks like.
Guest:And they were like, no, we don't.
Guest:Like I felt them go, no, we don't.
Guest:You were up against the Philly man thing.
Yeah.
Guest:And Artie is like, as long as they don't... They knocked out Santa Claus at an Eagles game.
Guest:He's like, you did fine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's really great watching Jed.
Guest:I don't know if you've seen him do stand-up.
Guest:No, he's great.
Guest:Lately.
Guest:Yeah, and I see him a lot.
Guest:He's been crushing and he's doing a special.
Guest:And I think that's one of the reasons why, for sure, that we did this show.
Guest:I pitched it to him while he was shooting Trainwreck.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And when he was shooting Trainwreck, he was going out with Amy Schumer to do The Cellar.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:and then i and so he was living that sort of like what's it like coming back into the world yeah it was funny because he sort of quit doing comedy as maybe you know a kind of strong middle yeah sure and now like i at first when he was coming back around i was like oh god what's he gonna do yeah but then like he's got some great bits i love i see him a lot at the store because all i do is work the store and he's always there and we go out to eat sometimes and i watch him do his jokes and i there's a couple of jokes i'll ask him to do i like him yeah i like the jokes he's doing
Guest:It's always, it gives me anxiety when a famous person starts doing standup again or at all.
Marc:But when you think of that famous person as being one of the preeminent comedy writers of our generation, it's sort of like he knows how to write jokes.
Marc:Like even when he quit doing standup, he was writing jokes for people.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:And that's why I live tweeted the premiere and it was so fun to say that was Jed.
Guest:That was Jed.
Marc:Oh, that's funny.
Guest:And that was Artie.
Guest:Camille, do you like your life?
Marc:This is one of the best fucking punchlines ever.
Guest:I enjoyed visiting your cat, by the way.
Guest:That's always the secret way to Marin's.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Buster's way is the only sociable cat I have, my new kitten.
Marc:He came and enjoyed.
Marc:And he's really kind of liking people.
Guest:I got him purring real fast.
Guest:And as a performer, that makes me happy.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:I know.
Guest:You can tell I was raised with cats because the command I most often give my dog is go live your life.
Marc:what do you want what do you want from me whatever yeah well you got he needs the shit you got to deal with it i know cats see cats are good people think they're assholes they're good yeah you know what i mean yeah you just it's like you know if you're not look the needy thing is you know i know i'm needy at times but like with the pets like i like having to earn it
Marc:Me too.
Guest:The dog is just giving it to you unconditional.
Guest:I don't really know.
Guest:I know you might think that I like that.
Guest:I like the cat model more.
Marc:I used to do a joke.
Marc:I said, I don't want to have a dog.
Marc:I don't want anything more needy than me in my house.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:They're very codependent.
Guest:And your cat, who knows where your cat's off learning to meditate, and your dog is just looking at you like, what are we doing now?
Marc:So what happens now?
Guest:Are you just going to promote and then take a break or what?
Guest:I mean, we're hoping to hear about a season two.
Guest:That quickly.
Guest:Knockin' wood.
Guest:You know, I think, I'm not sure.
Guest:I feel like HBO's MO is a couple episodes, two, three episodes, and maybe they'll make a decision.
Guest:And I've already been writing season two, and we've been meeting kind of informally.
Guest:No pickup, but just like meeting with like Greg Fitzsimmons and Ian Edwards.
Guest:Some of these guys are coming in.
Guest:To write?
Guest:Just to tell stories and just be like, hey, we showed them the season.
Guest:It's like, where do you think this is going?
Guest:What worked?
Guest:What didn't work?
Guest:Oh, cool.
Guest:And then, so I just sent Judd the second season premiere idea.
Guest:Because I like writing it and being like, just read it and tell me if it works instead of like an outline or something.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Did you hear back from him?
Guest:Not yet.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:In fact, I'm mentioning it on this podcast because I know he's going to listen and he'll be like, I got to read that.
Guest:I forgot he sent that.
Guest:I marked it as spam.
Guest:Well, congratulations.
Guest:Mark, it means a lot.
Guest:I'm happy for you.
Guest:i as you know you're an inspiration to me thank you i think you're great and you're killing it springsteen come on get the fuck out of my face but i mean our dynamic deserves to be you know we've matured a little bit but especially well i'm holding a lot in i don't know if that's maturity but you know what jed said to me he was like what he was like tell mark that you you kind of went you know you're a sweet guy obviously you went grumpy mask yeah i went happy man right same guy underneath
Guest:We're both afraid.
Marc:We're both scared.
Marc:We have compulsions.
Marc:We have issues with our families.
Marc:That's a good observation by Mr. Apatow.
Marc:That's what he does.
Marc:I know.
Marc:We pick different personas.
Guest:Again, that's kind of what the show's about.
Marc:It's a species.
Marc:I wish it was that conscious.
Guest:I just picked this one because the other one felt so scary.
Guest:Well, we picked the one that made us feel safe.
Guest:yeah that's why this i think you might enjoy duncan trussell said this to me about our egos because a lot of the spiritual work i do is like trying to minimize your ego he's like don't don't hate your ego your ego is what was there when you were scared and the world was legs yeah it's all grown-ups and they're all weird duncan's a big booze breath yeah they're frightening the ego is what picked you up and protected you
Guest:So don't send it into the woods like Harry and the Hendersons.
Guest:You say, thank you.
Guest:And you put them aside when you don't, when you're like, hey, take a break.
Guest:Go eat some bananas.
Guest:It's an ongoing negotiation.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:But don't fucking spit in his face.
Guest:Or try to disconnect it totally.
Guest:I was afraid and I went sweet Pete.
Guest:And obviously you and I are both three dimensional people.
Guest:I have my bitter grumpy and you're sweet happy.
Guest:But the majority of was what we chose to make us feel safe.
Guest:Everybody wants to feel safe.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How we doing?
Guest:I feel good.
Marc:I feel pretty good.
Marc:I don't feel safe, but I feel good by talking to you.
Guest:I feel a little safer than I did when I came in.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, thanks for coming by.
Marc:Thanks, buddy.
Marc:Crashing Peach Show is now on HBO.
Marc:You can watch episode one on HBO now, and also it's on every Sunday at 10.30 p.m.
Marc:There was this weird moment that actually happened when I was in Durham.
Marc:I was kind of wandering around, looking lost, wanting to talk to people because I didn't want to sit alone in the hotel room with my own brain.
Marc:And it was just an interesting moment because Jay Leno was actually performing in Durham the same night that I was.
Marc:So I was just wandering the street and some dude comes up to me.
Marc:And I initially thought that, oh, that's nice.
Marc:Someone recognized me.
Marc:But he immediately launched into...
Marc:Hey, man, I just, look, I was just down at the hospital.
Marc:I had a test.
Marc:I got diabetes, and now, like, I'm out.
Marc:I'm on the street, and I took the bus in from, you know, and then, like, I got to get back on the bus, and I need money because I only have $2, and I got to, you know, I need another few dollars to get the bus back, and, you know, I just got tests done.
Marc:You know, it was the classic I need money for a bus bus.
Marc:It was a rendition of the, I just need a couple more bucks to get my bus ticket pitch, which I've heard from many people.
Marc:But, you know, I was feeling, you know, a little down, a little open.
Marc:And I generally give some money if I, you know, you make those decisions in the moment or you have a policy.
Marc:I'm a momentary decision maker, but...
Marc:But I gave the guy five bucks and I absolutely had no belief that it would go to a bus ticket.
Marc:I didn't know what it would go to, but I didn't think bus ticket was where it was going.
Marc:But I was OK with that.
Marc:I wanted to help whatever it was he needed to feed or wherever he needed to travel or whatever.
Marc:But then he started walking with me.
Marc:He's like, thanks, man.
Marc:He's like just walking with me because I just saw Jay Leno.
Marc:I just I just talked to Jay Leno.
Marc:He was just hanging out.
Marc:So not only did he not know who I was, which is fine, but I did give him some money and that's fine, too.
Marc:But now he's going to tell me that he was talking to Jay Leno.
Marc:And I'm like, oh, yeah, he's a nice guy, right?
Marc:Yeah, he's a nice guy.
Marc:Yeah, he's just walking down the street, you know, and I just said, hey, I like you, Jay Leno.
Marc:And I'm like, I said, did he give you any money?
Marc:And he goes, no, no, but, you know, he's probably just got a credit card.
Marc:And I was like, yeah, yeah, that's probably it.
Marc:I don't know what that story means, but somehow in that moment,
Marc:There's two ways to go with it.
Marc:I mean, I could have felt like a heel or a mark or stupid because I knowingly gave some money to somebody who was lying to me and seemed to be pretty chipper.
Marc:Maybe not.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:But in that moment, I chose to feel superior to Jay Leno.
Marc:That's where I went with that.
Marc:Yeah, that's who I was that day in that minute.
Marc:Nora Jones.
Marc:I never thought I'd talk to Nora Jones, but here we are.
Marc:Her most recent album, her sixth solo record is called Day Breaks.
Marc:She's on tour throughout March.
Marc:You can go to NoraJones.com.
Marc:This is me and Nora Jones talking.
¶¶
Marc:You know, I went through this flurry of insanity this morning just to clean the house.
Marc:I didn't want you to walk into a house.
Guest:Oh, please.
Guest:You haven't seen my house.
Marc:Full of cat shit.
Guest:My house is a mess.
Guest:Is it?
Guest:Yeah, it's like stressing me out.
Guest:I go to bed when the kids go to bed just so I don't have to be in the stressful part of the house.
Guest:And I just hide in my bedroom.
Marc:Just hoping that it'll clean itself.
Guest:Just pretending like the mess isn't there.
Marc:Some fairy will come and clean the mess.
Marc:Pretty much.
Marc:How many kids?
Guest:I have two.
Guest:They're nine months and almost three.
Marc:Oh my God.
Marc:So it's chaos all the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's just a little chaotic.
Marc:Relentless.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's all good.
Marc:It's exciting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're sweet and awesome.
Marc:And you live in Brooklyn?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So do you come out here much?
No.
Guest:Yeah, to work, but I never end up having as much time as I'd like to have to just enjoy California.
Marc:Where did you grow up?
Guest:I grew up outside of Dallas, Texas, in Grapevine, Texas.
Marc:But you weren't born there?
Guest:No, I was born in New York.
Marc:In the city.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I lived in the city until I was maybe three or four, and then we moved down to Texas.
Marc:Not a lot of big memories of the cities.
No.
Guest:I have a couple of weird, like my first memory is a dream about being in a playground in Washington Square Park and biting my lip off, but other than that, no.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, that was weird, vivid memory.
Marc:That has stuck with you?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And why did you guys decide to go to Dallas?
Marc:Have you done any research on that?
Guest:My mom is from Oklahoma.
Marc:Really?
Guest:And she went to college in Dallas.
Guest:So I think it was just kind of like going home without having to go back to Oklahoma.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And your dad is Ravi Shankar.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But you didn't really get along with him for a while.
Guest:Well, I mean, it's not that I didn't get along with him.
Guest:I saw him here and there for sure when I was a baby.
Guest:I don't really remember all that.
Guest:I probably spent the most time with him then.
Guest:And then over the years, I would see him sporadically.
Guest:And then after I was like nine, I didn't see him until I was 18.
Guest:And then we became really close.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Until he died a few years ago.
Guest:And so from age 18 on, I worked really hard on my relationship with him and he did too.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Got better.
Marc:So you got to know him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was, you know, it's lucky because he was old then.
Guest:And he ended up, you know.
Marc:He was old when he had you?
Guest:He was actually.
Guest:So I'm thankful that he, you know, he stuck around and he was in good shape and he played.
Guest:And I get to see him play a ton.
Marc:Yeah, I have gotten into some of his music somehow.
Marc:That stuff, do you find that, not that it's genetic, but that any of that stuff registers with you?
Guest:It's a really funny thing for me because...
Guest:I've always kind of been, music has always come very natural to me.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:And, but not Indian music.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Necessarily.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But country music.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:You know, growing up in Texas.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hearing all the stuff my grandparents were listening to in Oklahoma.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think definitely I have a musical ability for my genetics.
Guest:I think I've got to because it's always just felt very natural.
Marc:I've talked to Derek Trucks about that weird primal space of that type of music.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And there's a couple of musics that just do that where your brain just kind of drops into something that doesn't require any definition at all.
Marc:And you're just in this primal zone.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you?
Marc:That's like, I think it's pretty like if you have that genetically, if you can feel that, I think that's the core of music somehow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Does that make sense?
Marc:Or am I just reading into it?
Guest:No, no, that makes a lot of sense.
Guest:I mean, for me, music is at its best when you're not thinking about it at all.
Marc:What did your mother do?
Marc:What was she sort of doing with her life when you were growing up?
Guest:She was a script supervisor in film when I was born.
Guest:And in Texas, I think she did that for a couple of years.
Guest:And then she got went back to school to get her real estate license.
Marc:Start selling the real estate.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I went to a lot of empty, abandoned houses with her growing up and like did cartwheels in these weird living rooms.
Marc:Waiting for, you know, sort of hopeful looking couples.
Guest:Yeah, hoping a serial killer didn't come in the night when we were getting ready for the house, open house.
Guest:Yeah, she had like the first generation of a cell phone because she was nervous to go out at night to these houses.
Guest:I remember just it was so big and weird.
Guest:Giant cell phone.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, so she was a real estate agent for like five years.
Marc:Is she still around?
Guest:Yeah, she's here helping me out with kids in L.A.
Guest:Oh, you brought the kids?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:I know.
Marc:You're traveling with those kids?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You have to deal with the contemptful look of other passengers as you enter the plane?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Anything goes on the plane.
Guest:They can watch anything they want.
Guest:They can eat any kind of food they want as long as they stay quiet.
Yeah.
Marc:It's so funny.
Marc:It doesn't bother me as much as some people, the screaming child, really.
Marc:That's good for you.
Marc:But it's very funny that a lot of times they don't start screaming until like right when you're landing.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I think, yeah.
Marc:It's the ear thing.
Marc:It's probably a pressure thing.
Guest:Probably the ear thing.
Guest:My kids tend to fall asleep right when we're landing.
Marc:Oh, they fall asleep.
Marc:So they cry the whole way.
Guest:No, they've been pretty good.
Guest:I can't.
Guest:I got to touch wood there.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So in Texas, Texas is very specific.
Marc:It sure is.
Guest:It's like its own country, right?
Marc:It is.
Marc:I grew up in New Mexico.
Marc:And I, you know, I've grown to like a lot of places that I've judged because they are unique.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But Texas really is its own country.
Guest:It is.
Marc:So did you feel like when you were growing up that you were a Texan?
Guest:I did.
Marc:You did?
Guest:I mean, or I didn't think about it growing up.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But once I moved to New York, I really owned it and I missed it.
Guest:And I think I got more into country music.
Guest:I mean, I think it was always in the water kind of and in my house playing.
Guest:But I really got deep into it when I moved away from Texas when I was 20 and I moved to New York.
Marc:And that's when I really... You did a country record, right?
Marc:Basically, almost?
Marc:I've done a few, yeah.
Marc:Because I noticed, like, what was I listening to the other day?
Marc:Did you cover...
Marc:um i'll be your baby tonight that dylan song oh yeah i did that was like a b-side yeah yeah and and you did some hank williams song yeah and i have a couple i have a country a couple different country bands i'm in yeah and um they're real fun and how do you so when did you start getting into into music when did you feel like that was your mode of expression how did that uh reveal itself
Guest:I guess it just kind of happened.
Guest:I sang in church choir.
Guest:Probably was the first thing.
Marc:When you were like what?
Marc:Five, four, five.
Marc:And were people like, oh my God.
Guest:She should be Nora Jones.
Guest:No, not quite.
Guest:But I will say I was very...
Guest:I was kind of, you know, I didn't get shy and self-conscious until I was 11 or something.
Guest:So when I was little like that and the choir teacher would tell us to open our mouths and sing out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I took it very literally and I did it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then I ended up getting a lot of solos, you know.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because I had, maybe I had confidence.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I had good pitch combination.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:then i was in church choir till i was a lot older and then i was in school choirs but i started taking piano lessons when i was about seven too and um how that did that seem easy i immediately wanted to quit because i really did not want to practice all these dang skills nobody does god i hated all the practice what's with the practice did your mom make you
Guest:she did something which in retrospect was pretty cool she said well you begged me for piano lessons i gave them to you you can't quit for five years because because at least if you ever want to go back you'll have a little bit of a base like a foundation did she play anything no but she was like a musical theater she was a dancer until she broke her ankle in college she was in musical theater how long was she with your dad
Guest:I think like nine years.
Marc:Well, so she knew music.
Marc:She knew that world.
Guest:She always loved music.
Guest:I mean, growing up in my house was all Ray Charles and Aretha Franklin all the time.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was her jam.
Marc:Not a lot of country.
Marc:Where'd you get the country?
Guest:She liked country.
Guest:A lot of Willie Nelson, but a lot of soul music.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I got the country probably from my grandparents.
Marc:And they lived in Dallas?
Marc:Oklahoma.
Marc:So you had to go to Oklahoma.
Marc:Like, this is, like, it's very interesting because you seem... There's some, like, urban element to the Nora Jones thing, but obviously your music is popular throughout the world with all types of people, but I somehow associate you because I don't know you, and I just...
Marc:met you i just read about you as like this jazz person i know i wouldn't say that's the most accurate label but you know because like so where do they live in oklahoma uh lawton so you drove you drive up there yeah with your mom yeah we'd listen to um you know linda ronstadt and willie nelson yeah yeah like george jones any george tons of george jones how is he that he's like the best i
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:It's amazing.
Guest:To this day, when I listen to that music, it hits me in a way that is nostalgic and reminds me of, you know, when music does that to you and it takes you back to being a kid and certain music takes you back to different places.
Guest:But that stuff goes really deep for me because of my childhood.
Marc:Yeah, George Jones is like, and his singing is so wild.
Guest:So beautiful.
Marc:Have you like, I can't, why is he such a great singer?
Marc:Is it?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Because it's specific.
Marc:There's like the way that he harmonizes and stuff.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Are you like a musician?
Guest:He's got those little turns in his voice.
Guest:It's like those little twizzles that Dolly also has.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That you just do them.
Guest:They're not like something.
Guest:I mean, you can practice them and imitate people.
Guest:That's how you learn them, I guess.
Guest:But they're just these little isms that they have.
Marc:Do you ever deconstruct it, though?
Marc:Like, where does that come from?
Marc:Is that like an Appalachian thing?
Marc:Is it an Irish thing?
Marc:Is it like how far back does it go?
Guest:Do you get lost in that shit?
Guest:No, I don't think about stuff like that too much.
Guest:I just sort of listen to it, I guess.
Marc:It's not your job.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Let the critics do that.
Guest:That's their job.
Marc:Have they done that to you?
Marc:Have they tracked what you are the legacy of in writing?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Maybe a little.
Guest:I think I stopped paying attention to that stuff pretty early on because...
Guest:you know that you can get too deep in that and then just your head is full of weirdness and right because you you're already probably self-conscious on some level and that just adds exactly now you're self-conscious in the language of that smart guy exactly maybe i am doing that maybe i am you know i went to college i went to high school i went to this amazing performing arts high school that's kind of where i really got deep into jazz and
Guest:and fell in love with it and started playing it.
Guest:And then I went to college for jazz, like jazz.
Marc:So you start out in church choir, and you're singing like that stuff.
Guest:Well, yeah, elementary school, that was all church choir.
Guest:And then when I got to junior high, I quit piano after five years exactly.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Because I was like, it's the day mom.
Marc:I'm out.
Guest:I just was so bad at practicing.
Guest:I had the sweetest teacher, but I just could not take that, you know, but I had a great foundation.
Guest:I had all these theory classes growing up.
Marc:So that's in your head.
Guest:Yeah, so I had a great education for music.
Guest:So I was naturally predisposed to music and I was highly musically educated.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Because it was a really cool program where they taught you theory and everything.
Marc:This isn't high school?
Marc:No, this is elementary school.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I quit.
Marc:And you can read music real well?
Guest:Not anymore.
Guest:I haven't practiced at it lately, but I mean, I could read music.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I wasn't great at classical music.
Guest:I love listening to it.
Guest:It's beautiful, but I just don't have that discipline.
Marc:So what happens in junior high?
Guest:So I quit piano.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then my mom took me to some big band concert at the University of North Texas.
Marc:Just a general big band concert?
Guest:Yeah, general big band concert.
Marc:Like old style swing?
Marc:Yeah, kind of.
Marc:Stan Kenton, whatever?
Guest:Kind of, but you know, they do a lot of progressive stuff too, like newer stuff too.
Guest:But I just, it was different and I never really checked it out.
Marc:All those instruments.
Guest:All those instruments, all the dudes.
Guest:It was awesome.
Guest:You know, rock and roll dudes get into music for chicks.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I was like this little girl looking at this big band.
Guest:I was boy crazy.
Guest:I was totally boy crazy.
Guest:This sounds a little weird, but I really was.
Guest:I loved the music so much, and I thought it was so cool.
Guest:And there was this one blonde chick, and I don't know who it was, actually.
Guest:I wish I knew her name.
Guest:And she was like a graduate student.
Guest:She was directing the band.
Marc:Yeah, that's cool.
Marc:She was conducting?
Guest:She was conducting.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But I don't know.
Guest:I just dug it.
Guest:It was cool.
Guest:And so my mom got me a saxophone and I joined the band in school.
Guest:And I ended up doing marching band in high school.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Before I went to the performing arts high school.
Marc:Did you have an outfit?
Guest:It's the most sad, scary picture.
Guest:I might have burned it, but I think it might be on the walls of Grapevine High School still.
Guest:With a hat?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yes.
Guest:And in Texas, it was so hot.
Guest:And we were marching in August in these polyester suits.
Guest:It was like people were passing out, like, left and right, just dropping flies.
Marc:Like, what were you playing?
Marc:Like, Watermelon Man?
Guest:Actually, we did Chicago, the music of Chicago.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:That band, yeah.
Guest:Actually, Chicago's a pretty badass.
Marc:Good horn section.
Guest:Yeah, great horn section.
Guest:It was great for marching band.
Marc:So, did you become good at sax?
Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I got a solo in the band thing, which I totally messed up when it came time to perform it.
Marc:But you couldn't really, like, did you, like, I guess neither on piano or on saxophone you couldn't improvise, really?
Guest:I mean, I was, yeah, I was pretty young still.
Guest:I was just getting there.
Guest:And then my mom hooked me up with this cool piano teacher in Dallas named Julie Bonk.
Guest:who is a jazz musician.
Guest:And she opened my mind to just playing chords instead of reading notes and reading a chord chart and improvising over these chords and learning which scales to play over them.
Guest:And she started me off doing that, which was pretty awesome.
Marc:So it was a whole change of thinking.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Totally different way of thinking about music.
Guest:And she encouraged me to write songs, which I did and I hated because they were so piano-y and I stopped immediately.
Guest:They were so bad.
Guest:But then my mom got me into this arts magnet high school.
Marc:So jazz, like, you know, when she when someone introduces you to jazz, I like I like jazz.
Marc:I have a brain for it.
Marc:I'm afraid to go down that rabbit hole because it's just huge.
Marc:It's huge.
Marc:And there's no way I can nerd out to that degree at this age.
Marc:And I don't have I don't have enough years left, but I can listen to it.
Marc:And I'm always amazed when I'm like, you know, this sounds different that like because like Lee Morgan, which I was just playing.
Marc:I never knew that guy until like a month ago.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And someone gives me a Lee Morgan album, and I'm like, and I just put it on without really any preconceptions.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:No research.
Marc:And I'm like, this guy's got his own thing.
Marc:And it's hard to identify that with bebop trumpet.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, like there are guys, there's Miles, and there's other people that play horns, but when someone's sort of like, oh, you know, because the jazz riff, the bass line is what it is.
Marc:But for someone to stand out, it's like, holy shit.
Guest:Yeah, but there's great bass players who stand out just playing bass, you know?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you've got to have the mind for it.
Marc:Because I imagine to some people, it's like, oh, that shit sounds the same.
Guest:Yeah, some people it does.
Guest:But I bet even those people, if you play them like really choice cuts, even they would be moved.
Guest:Maybe not.
Marc:Well, what did that piano teacher show you at that time?
Marc:What did she play for you that made you understand that?
Guest:She mostly showed me how to think about it differently.
Guest:But I remember my mom, when I started getting into jazz, she went to the library and she rented the Smithsonian Jazz Collection.
Guest:It was like this great compilation of all the best stuff, you know.
Guest:And we totally dubbed it on cassette tape.
Guest:And I...
Marc:Oh, I remember that.
Marc:It was my Bible.
Guest:I dubbed it on cassette.
Marc:And you had it and you hoped it didn't break.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I had like maybe four cassettes because it was a huge collection.
Guest:And it was kind of my Bible for a while.
Marc:Do you remember who was on it or what songs made the impression?
Guest:Everybody was on it.
Guest:Well, not everybody, but a lot of great stuff.
Guest:But I remember this Charles Mingus cut Haitian Fight song.
Guest:And I've since tried to listen to it recently.
Guest:And I didn't realize it was like a weird live version that wasn't the most common version that comes up when you try to find it.
Guest:But I used to do interpretive dance in my bedroom to it.
Guest:And it's just the coolest.
Guest:And then this Billie Holiday version of...
Guest:of these foolish things.
Guest:I mean, it just rips your heart out.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And Oscar Peterson's playing piano.
Guest:I mean, it was just great music.
Marc:And those two stand out in your head.
Guest:Those two were my jams.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And like, well, it's funny because at that moment where, you know, you'd played some sax, you'd done some piano, you could sing that, you know, there was probably a moment there where interpretive dance might have been it.
Guest:Like, you know, you... It could have, it should have.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:You probably made the right choice in terms of a career that earns you money.
Guest:Maybe.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:Jazz musician, not high on the list usually.
Guest:You've done all right.
Guest:I've done great.
Marc:I've been lucky.
Marc:Well, I think that, I don't know why that is, you know, I don't, well, I guess I understand why it is, but because it is so specific, but it does, there is so much range within jazz, but it still takes a certain kind of person to move around popular music and to get into that stuff.
Marc:to support it properly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because when you go to a jazz show, I mean, I saw Kamasi, you know, when he finished his tour here, it was like his hometown show.
Guest:It was crazy.
Guest:Yeah, but he's a rock star now.
Guest:Good.
Guest:And that's great.
Guest:It's good for jazz, right?
Guest:It's great for everyone in all respects.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm just saying like most jazz musicians don't have that reception.
Marc:I heard from some of them.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Having been, you know, in comedy for a long time, you know, I understand bitterness.
Guest:You do.
Guest:There's a lot of.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:There's a real parallel there.
Guest:You're right.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:I got a few emails that sort of like, you know, Kamasi's fine, but maybe you should do your homework.
Guest:Maybe you should check this guy out.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Marc:This guy's been at it a lot longer.
Guest:I call them the jazz police.
Guest:I think that's their cult.
Guest:But you know what?
Guest:Much respect to them.
Guest:You know, it's really hard to do something you love so much and just get no credit for.
Guest:I mean, I get it.
Marc:Yeah, it's brutal.
Guest:I can't imagine.
Guest:I mean, and I think that's a big reason why I kind of stopped playing jazz.
Guest:I mean, I love that music.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I wasn't really writing songs that were that style.
Guest:And eventually when I finally got back into songwriting, it was because I had a guitar in my room.
Guest:And because everything else sounded too piano-y to me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I played it on the piano and I played like, I knew four chords on a guitar.
Marc:That's all you need.
Guest:When I moved to New York and I wrote...
Guest:songs that were totally country.
Guest:Oh, there's the yard guy.
Marc:I don't think it'll take long.
Marc:We're just going to keep talking right through it.
Guest:I'll talk louder.
Marc:It's improvisation.
Marc:That's our baseline.
Marc:It's percussive, but it's hard to work with.
Marc:Well, it's also interesting as a vocalist in jazz that I don't
Marc:Like the limitations are sort of specific, right?
Marc:I mean, you know, we're outside of being able to do what a vocalist does in any form.
Marc:You know, where do you really, you know, how much can you improvise and take it out there?
Guest:Well, it depends on what you're doing.
Guest:I was never the kind of vocalist.
Guest:I mean, I tried scat singing and I did that in high school and college.
Guest:I was in these groups, but it just wasn't for me.
Guest:And in terms of playing music that's more out there, I love a lot of it.
Guest:I love Miles Davis in a silent way.
Guest:That's one of my favorite albums of all time.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But...
Guest:And maybe someday I'll do something like that.
Guest:But I don't know.
Guest:I mean, when I was singing, I was just drawn to songs.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Simple songs.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so, yeah, you can take them out there.
Guest:You can rephrase them.
Guest:You can do all kinds of shit.
Guest:But it's better if you just sing them from your heart and make the lyrics come to life.
Guest:And whatever happens with the notes happens.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know?
Guest:And that's what I've learned over the years.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Is that you can try to take things out, but that usually sounds a little contrived.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:You don't want to be a showboat where you just sort of like tricks.
Marc:It's tricks.
Guest:Tricks.
Guest:Like, it's better to just convey the lyric heartfelt.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Marc:And when you say, like, you tried scat singing, is that... Oh, my God.
Marc:But is that like a... Skeedly a doobop.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But...
Marc:But is that like when you do scat singing, do you try to integrate it into everything you sing?
Guest:I mean, I didn't go too far into it, but I mean, I have a girlfriend who can do it really well, actually.
Guest:And when somebody can do it well and is like owning it and believes in it and does it amazingly.
Marc:With all the breath and everything.
Guest:I mean, I know Ella Fitzgerald.
Guest:I mean, she did it.
Guest:I love it.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I love it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I mean, I don't need.
Marc:I can't do it.
Yeah.
Marc:It's one of those weird things that, like, there's only a few people that really do it.
Guest:That you want to hear do it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I'd rather just try to take a piano solo, you know?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:So when do you start, like, cavorting with jazz musicians?
Marc:What was this experience in performance arts high school?
Marc:Like, is it like, was it the Texas version of fame?
Guest:I mean, how... There were a few people like that, yeah.
Guest:But it was...
Marc:disciplines were there because that like that's an immersion yeah into creativity and expression i mean that's the point of those things is i imagine you've got theater over here and this over there right yeah it was theater dance um visual arts and then uh yeah so everybody's sort of there everybody's there but everybody has their concentration so if you're a dancer you're a dancer yeah so you wanted to be a music major
Guest:I mean, I knew I played music.
Guest:I think I auditioned for visual arts too because I just wanted to get into the school so bad.
Marc:Visual arts like what?
Marc:Oh, you did?
Guest:I painted some and I made jewelry.
Guest:I took this metal working class once.
Marc:You soldered things?
Guest:I soldered things.
Guest:I still have my 90s rings from that era.
Guest:They're pretty chunky.
Guest:So I got in for music and I always wanted to take a dance class because I went to this summer camp in Michigan in junior high, Interlochen.
Guest:It's a big arts camp and I took a dance class just for fun and it was so fun.
Guest:But at my high school, it was more just like the people who did dance did the dance.
Guest:The people who did the music did the music.
Guest:and did they did you combine were there like what did you back dancers was there that inter I don't remember that happening um and if it did I maybe I wasn't involved the only time that did happen was was whenever we did the we did this black history program one February and everybody was it was just extracurricular so we were all doing and I played Billie Holiday and I sang Strange Fruit which was crazy and how old were you
Guest:I was maybe 16.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:I didn't know that song.
Guest:When they said, somebody needs to play Billy Holiday, I went in to audition in front of everybody, and I was so nervous.
Marc:And you just chose that song?
Guest:I didn't choose that song.
Guest:I didn't know that song yet.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then she was like, great, you got the part.
Guest:The song is Strange Fruit.
Guest:And I was like, cool, what's that?
Guest:And then she schooled me on it, and I was like, whoa, this is heavy.
Marc:It is heavy.
Guest:It is very heavy.
Marc:What was your experience singing that song for the first time?
Guest:Um, I think I was so young and I was so, you know, in my head probably.
Guest:And we did four nights of shows and the director Nedra James was a pretty amazing human and teacher.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And she helped me kind of realize that it's not about fruit being.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:But I mean, it's not about being in my head and singing it right.
Guest:It's about the emotion.
Marc:Did you cry?
Guest:Um, I don't think I cried.
Guest:I think I was too nervous to cry.
Marc:I don't know how singers don't cry all the time.
Guest:He seems emotional.
Guest:I mean, some people do.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:I know some singers who cry a lot.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:During the song or after?
Marc:After usually?
Marc:No, not during.
Marc:After.
Guest:After.
Marc:Yeah, the vulnerability of singing is really kind of mind-blowing to me.
Marc:Let me go see where he's at with that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Let's just give him three minutes.
Guest:Yeah, no problem.
Marc:It happens.
Guest:It's not bothering me at all.
Marc:But I think it might bother the listener.
Marc:Ah, whatever.
Marc:The more I draw attention to it.
Marc:It's happened before, but usually in my mind I'm like, that'll only be a couple minutes.
Ha ha ha.
Marc:But here we are talking about one of the most powerful songs ever written.
Marc:And there's like... Yeah, that's true.
Guest:Strange fruit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then there's just a leaf blower blasting away.
Marc:Well, what's your relationship with Billie Holiday?
Guest:She's just always... She was one of my early favorites.
Guest:And I mean, I was pretty obsessive listening to her growing up.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I don't know if I got that layer of pain or depth until later.
Guest:You know, I...
Marc:In terms of accessing it?
Marc:I mean, you didn't have to live that life.
Marc:You didn't get strung out and busted.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:In terms of just realizing how deep it went, you know.
Marc:How do you realize that stuff as a singer?
Guest:You don't have to realize all the pain to really let it touch you, I guess.
Marc:You know, I understand that you don't have to live it to to to interpret it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:In that, you know, all you can do as an artist is, I think, engage your own heart to, you know, whatever your capacity is.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And it touches you in whatever.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:And I think that, you know, what it conveys coming out of you is going to be different than I mean, I guess that's the power of being an interpreter.
Marc:in as a vocalist and that's why people can relate to the same thing and so many in their own way you know so you go through this program in high school and then you continue to study you're singing you're doing you're learning that you have this natural talent and that you can apply it and and all that you learn to play guitar four chords at some point yeah and then what do you do for college
Guest:i went to north texas um which is real texas woman yeah well hey man state school sure i get you it was too expensive to go to where i wanted to go to the new school or right go to new york yeah i wanted to go to new york since i was so young yeah yeah so so when you go to college what is it just more specifically music it's i i was a jazz piano major really so you went back to the piano
Guest:Actually, in high school, I was also a jazz piano major because we had to have a major.
Marc:So after you quit the lessons, you still did it?
Marc:I went back.
Guest:Yeah, I went back with that jazz teacher, Julie, and then I did piano in high school.
Guest:So I was quit for maybe a year, and that's when I kind of started playing the saxophone and then started realizing that that wasn't really my thing.
Marc:So you go to college and you're playing the piano, you're jazz piano.
Marc:Now, who are your heroes of jazz piano?
Marc:Like who?
Guest:Like Bill Evans.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What about Monk?
Marc:Monk.
Marc:Monk.
Guest:Oh my God, he's the best.
Guest:I mean, yeah, there's a lot of that Monk, Monk, but there's some really beautiful stuff.
Guest:And Duke Ellington.
Guest:Those are my three big.
Marc:Well, that's pretty good range.
Guest:They're all so good.
Marc:You go from like traditional to bebop to like out there.
Guest:Yeah, but they all, you know, me, I'm like a ballad lover.
Guest:And so I, you know, I tend to gravitate towards a lot of their more mellow, more melodic stuff.
Marc:And when do you really figure out playing and singing?
Guest:I think that that first year I was in college, I got this gig at this Italian restaurant called Popolo's in Dallas.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I would do every Friday and Saturday night playing and singing.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, it was mostly a piano gig, but they let me sing because they liked the way I sing.
Marc:So this is your first paid musician gig?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I got a hundred bucks every night plus tips.
Guest:And sometimes I would get a lot of tips and sometimes I would get no tips.
Guest:Then I got a free meal.
Marc:But this was your job.
Marc:You're like, I'm a working musician.
Marc:I'm playing an Italian.
Marc:I'm in the corner.
Guest:It was awesome because I didn't have to get a job in college because that job actually paid my rent and everything.
Marc:Really?
Marc:And were you writing songs at the time?
Guest:No.
Marc:No.
Marc:Yeah, you were just doing traditional.
Guest:I still was afraid of writing songs because of my horribly embarrassing songwriting in high school on the piano.
Marc:Scarred.
Guest:Scarred.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I thought I was cheesy.
Guest:Too cheesy.
Marc:It must be hard to really figure that out, to cross the line, because I imagine that you probably think some of your bigger songs might be a little cheesy sometimes in retrospect, or no?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:don't know i mean i'm not saying that they are what are you saying no no i'm just saying that as an insecure creative person like when i look back at my stuff yeah it's hard for me not to be like well that was me but yeah i'm different now i'm way cooler now yeah yeah yeah
Marc:I wouldn't have done that turn of phrase that way.
Guest:Certainly there's things like that, of course.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But yeah, in college I was just working on playing piano.
Marc:Do people come up to you and go, I saw you at the Italian restaurant?
Guest:No, because it was pretty far.
Guest:But people were jealous.
Guest:I had guys who would sub for me if I couldn't do it.
Guest:And it was a good gig because of the money and the food.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And it was short.
Guest:It was like two and a half, three hours.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's really, it's really, I mean, I could sing and I could play the piano, but it was really like, you know, chewing gum and walking and whatever.
Marc:It's like juggling, yeah.
Marc:It's like that moment where you learn how to not be conscious of it.
Guest:Yeah, putting it together took a minute for sure.
Guest:And so that was the best practice I could ever have because I'm a horrible practicer.
Guest:I've never been good at just sitting in a room and practicing.
Guest:So for me, like a shitty gig is the best practice.
Marc:Really?
Guest:And by shitty gig, I mean like a low pressure gig.
Marc:That's interesting.
Marc:You weren't a big practicer.
Guest:I'm just not good at it.
Guest:And I think that's why I was drawn to jazz because of the improvisation and nothing has to be perfect.
Marc:Right.
Guest:It could be loose and you can vibe it out and you can feel how you're feeling.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But your education was in place.
Marc:You knew where you were going and how it worked.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I knew how it worked.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I just didn't want to practice.
Marc:Why ruin it over practice?
Guest:Of course, there's some amazing jazz musicians who lock themselves in a room and practice all day every day and they're amazing.
Guest:But...
Guest:That's why I never had a ton of chops because I don't practice that much.
Marc:Thank God you had a voice, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was kind of nice the way it lays out and just kind of put them together and they equal something good.
Marc:Well, I think that I'm a strong believer in being skilled and knowing your talent and not over ringing it.
Marc:I believe that because I think that there's an impulsive rawness there that you can't get when you're overpracticed.
Guest:That's how I've always felt.
Guest:I hate rehearsing.
Guest:My bands are always laughing at me because they want to practice the song one more time.
Guest:I'm like, no.
Marc:You guys do it.
Guest:I hate rehearsing so much.
Marc:Because it's hard, I would imagine, even in touring that, to drift into autopilot if you can get away with it.
Marc:You may not be one to do that.
Guest:No, it's so nice to play a song and be spontaneous.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And being on tour, you have to find your groove within all that, within playing a lot of the same songs every night and try to get your energy from the audience and change it up without just trying to change it on purpose and still being heartfelt about it.
Marc:Sure, you don't want to be like Bob Dylan where people are going like, what song is this?
Marc:What song is this?
Marc:And you're 20 minutes into something.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I appreciate him more and more as a performance artist.
Guest:He's so good.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:He really is a good one.
Guest:Oh, he's great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like he's just like some days it's fuck you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know.
Guest:Yet he still does it.
Marc:Have you met him?
Guest:He still goes out on tours.
Marc:He lives out there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, he must love it.
Marc:It's something.
Marc:I don't like it's maintaining that connection.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:You know, with an audience is like something in what I do that if I get away from that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, you can get scared.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Then you get nervous.
Marc:Right.
Guest:All of a sudden.
Guest:But if you're out there doing it all the time, it becomes your rapport and then you're loose and you can try new things.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Not too scared to do that.
Marc:So when do you make the jump to being the big jazz bow person?
Marc:I mean, after college, what happens for you that leads to that huge first record?
Guest:Well, I dropped out of college.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Well, maybe my second year in college, I realized I was taking all my music classes and none of my academics that I needed for my degree.
Guest:What was your degree?
Guest:the jazz studies, but you still got to take English and whatever else.
Guest:I didn't take any of that.
Guest:I took all my music classes in the first two years.
Marc:And you're like, I'm done.
Marc:I got what I needed.
Guest:Well, I was like faced with the reality of if I want to get a degree, then I'm going to have to really hate all this for a while.
Guest:And I also failed my classical piano jury, my first one.
Guest:I was like, all right, I'm going to go to New York for the summer and see how it is.
Guest:And I had my, I had the 71 Sedan Deville Cadillac
Guest:uh from high school my mom was nervous about me driving in texas so here's a tank yeah because the speed is like 80 miles per hour and there's a lot of open road yeah yeah it's a lot so she wanted me to have a tank so i had this awesome cadillac yeah and um my sophomore year or my freshman year actually uh one of the older musicians said hey
Guest:hey, there's these guys at the Marriott, they're coming to do a clinic, these musicians from New York, can you go pick them up?
Guest:You have the only car big enough for all the gear.
Guest:And so my Cadillac kind of was fate for me.
Guest:And I picked up these musicians and it was Kenny Walson and Mark Johnson was doing a bass clinic.
Guest:And I meet these two guys who were just kind of friends with them and traveling cross country and met them there.
Guest:This was in Denton, Texas, where I went to college.
Guest:and their names are jesse harris and richard julian and they all got a kick out of me because i had this cadillac and i'm like this little you know 19 year old jazz piano major and i'm like cool i'll show you around town here's the record store right and they're trying to show me cool records i'm like i know that one and they just thought they got a kick out of me right now what a pip this yeah who's this girl you know and then um
Guest:So I'm sitting there at the clinic with these two songwriters, these two guys that were just kind of tagging along with the jazz musicians.
Guest:I was like, so what do you guys do?
Guest:And they're like, we're songwriters.
Guest:And I'm like, what the heck?
Guest:Who are you?
Guest:I've never heard Fancy Pants.
Guest:I've never heard of that as a profession.
Guest:I didn't even think that far ahead.
Guest:And so they're these singer-songwriters in New York.
Guest:And I ended up later that summer going on a trip to New York and visiting them.
Marc:Who are they?
Marc:Are they people?
Guest:Jesse and Richard.
Guest:They're just New York songwriters.
Marc:Still around?
Guest:Yeah, definitely.
Guest:And they kind of changed my world around.
Guest:And then the next summer when I ended up moving to New York and dropping out of college, they kind of showed me around.
Guest:And I ended up doing a band with Jesse and my country band is with Richard.
Guest:And Jesse wrote Don't Know Why, which was my big breakout hit.
Guest:And so my first record was a lot of Jesse's songs and only a couple of my songs and a lot of my bass player Lee Alexander songs.
Guest:And it was my first time really sort of trying to explore just like songwriting and different experimenting with different styles.
Guest:And it ended up just being my first record.
Marc:So with Jesse, I mean, that's a tremendous opportunity, obviously, for a young songwriter.
Marc:And I mean, I don't guess either of you knew what was going to happen.
Guest:No, we had no clue.
Marc:And what was, because you said when you met them, you're like, oh, that's a thing.
Marc:And like, wow, that's a job.
Marc:That's a world.
Marc:So you get into this world.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And how closely did you work with him on those first songs?
Marc:Well, I mean...
Guest:I mean, we basically started playing.
Guest:First thing he did was to get me to sing some demos of his songs.
Guest:And I put one of those demos on this set of jazz demos that I ended up taking to Blue Note Records.
Guest:Because this woman, this mutual friend's wife worked at EMI and she saw me singing jazz standards in New York, which is what I was doing at first.
Marc:Where?
Guest:At like restaurants, like the garage.
Marc:So you're like a lounge singer.
Yeah.
Guest:Kind of, but it's more like jazz brunch.
Guest:I mean, this is why I kind of stopped doing those gigs and started playing in the singer songwriter clubs where I didn't get any money, but I got an excited audience, even if it was 20 people.
Marc:It's interesting that that world that you kind of like, there's a benefit to having the experience of performing for audiences, but there is a cheesiness to that.
Marc:Like I talked to Joanna Newsom about playing harp, which is a very limited bit of business.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Like, you know, either you're going to play at a brunch or a weird event, be the harpist in the corner, or you can figure out how to get out of that.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:But you're going to stay there for life.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:And many do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I wasn't quite on the level of playing at the cool jazz clubs where there were good audiences there.
Marc:But where did the EMI woman see you?
Guest:The garage.
Guest:It's like a place in the West Village, jazz brunch.
Guest:She asked if I want to meet with Bruce Lenvall at EMI, at Blue Note Records.
Marc:And he's the big shot?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm like, well, hell yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:Did you know who he was and everything?
Guest:I knew a lot about Blue Note, and I knew he was the big shot there.
Marc:Had he been for a long time?
Marc:I don't know the history of Blue Note.
Guest:He had been, and he ended up being a real good mentor and one of my best friends.
Marc:So he had been ushering jazz into the world for decades kind of thing?
Guest:Kind of.
Guest:He revived Blue Note in the 80s.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:And did all those reissues, I imagine.
Guest:He did all those reissues.
Guest:Well, yeah, and then brought a lot of great music.
Guest:In the 90s, jazz had this great kind of resurgence.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I played him a couple demos plus the song of Jesse's I had done.
Guest:And he's like, do you want to be a jazz singer or a pop singer?
Guest:Because that Jesse song is kind of different.
Guest:That's not really jazz.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm thinking, well, I moved here.
Guest:I've been wanting to be a jazz singer for the past eight years or whatever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so he gave me, he could tell I couldn't quite, I didn't quite know what I wanted to do yet.
Guest:He gave me some money to do some demos.
Guest:And so I did some demos.
Guest:And I was like, well, I could do all these jazz songs, but Billie Holiday did them great already.
Guest:And, you know, I'm a gazillion people since I've done them.
Guest:Right.
Guest:and so let's explore we have this money to do these demos let's explore this project i got with jesse and lee and so i had a couple songs to throw into the mix my four chord guitar songs yeah and even though i'm playing piano on it and we do these demos and they kind of end up becoming my first record and he decides that he wants to sign me and we finish them and that's the thing for my first record it was that was a blue note record
Guest:It was a Blue Note record.
Guest:And so it got pigeonholed as jazz.
Guest:And there were jazz moments on it for sure.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And that's where I come from.
Guest:But not all of it, I could say, was completely jazz.
Guest:I mean, there was just songs.
Marc:You were this perfect storm of maybe bringing those worlds together.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I definitely wasn't a straight-up, you know, avant-garde jazz record at all.
Marc:No, but even if it were standards, it would not have done what it did.
Guest:Yeah, standards have been done, and they're beautiful.
Marc:Sure, and you've done some.
Marc:It's fine.
Marc:I love them.
Marc:Yeah, but the choice to kind of go with this other thing and bring all your history with jazz into it created this record that was huge.
Guest:Yeah, it was bananas.
Yeah.
Marc:that's my new favorite word because my son just thinks bananas are funny so so but like that at that time i mean that thing won like five grammy awards it like it was a huge selling record it probably still sells i just bought it so but i actually have i actually bought it like six or six i don't know when i bought it but i had it when did i buy that record 2002
Marc:That's when it came out.
Guest:That's when it came out.
Guest:And then the Grammys happened about a year later in 2003.
Marc:What happens then?
Marc:You go out on tour.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You have the biggest record in the world.
Marc:You have all this amazing attention.
Marc:And that first tour, when you look out into those audiences, who were you seeing?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I mean, the audiences grew, grew, grew.
Guest:It was a pretty random selection.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, there were a lot of older people.
Guest:There were a lot of younger people.
Guest:It was very random.
Guest:And I think we were just on tour pretty much constantly for about a year and a half, maybe two years.
Marc:That's what you do, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we were riding the wave and I had a few little nervous breakdowns along the way.
Marc:Anything major?
No.
Guest:Not too bad.
Guest:I'm pretty together.
Guest:But for me, it was like a lot.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:I was 22 when it came out.
Guest:And then I was 23 when it was crazy.
Guest:And dealing with stuff in the press and my dad and my mom.
Guest:And that was stuff I wasn't really prepared to deal with.
Marc:The press was bringing it up or you were just dealing with that personally?
Guest:Just personally.
Guest:I had just gotten to know my dad again and I was having a great time being super close with him.
Guest:But family history and stories and specifics don't translate in small snippets in the press.
Guest:And it's not like...
Guest:Nobody was happy.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My family was always giving me shit on both sides.
Guest:For what?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:It's nothing bad.
Guest:I mean, it's not their fault.
Guest:It's not their fault.
Guest:It's just, it became, you know, oh, absent father.
Guest:It's like, well, that's not completely, you know, it's complex.
Guest:It's a family, you know, family stuff is complexity.
Marc:It is.
Marc:But when you regroup with with your father or you make the choice.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:To have that relationship once it seems that, you know, achieving your own success might have had some part in you feeling like a whole person and able to do that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or the headline reads, oh, the daughter of.
Guest:And then my mom's like, well, what about me?
Guest:I did all the hard work.
Guest:You know, that's what I'm saying.
Guest:It was like, oh, my God.
Guest:You know, I'm caught in the middle of that.
Marc:Well, it's a trickier story.
Marc:I understand her resentment.
Guest:Yeah, I do, too.
Guest:And it's all good now.
Guest:But it was it was tough at the time for me to just kind of like.
Marc:Yeah, it's hard when you have a father that, you know, showed the Beatles.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Of course people want to talk about that.
Marc:What Indian music is.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:And changed the entire trajectory of George Harrison's mind.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's sort of rich.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:You get it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And did she ever find peace with it?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I mean, my mom cooked dinner for my dad and my stepmom many times over the last 10 years of his life.
Guest:And it's all good.
Guest:But, you know, in the beginning, it was just weird.
Marc:Yeah, I bet.
Guest:It was weird having all that.
Marc:And also having this amazing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then and on alongside of that, you're having this amazing success.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And you got to deal with this like, oh, my God.
Guest:It was so weird, but it was great.
Guest:I mean, I was so lucky.
Guest:And I mean, there were amazing moments meeting Ray Charles and.
Marc:You played with him, right?
Guest:I got to play with him after, but the first time I met him, it was some Elton John tribute show.
Guest:I got to meet Elton John, too.
Guest:It was amazing.
Guest:But I remember meeting Ray Charles in some parking lot and just bawling my eyes out.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How did that happen?
Guest:Well, he played, and so he was leaving, and I was just there, so I got to meet him.
Marc:Did you run out into the parking lot?
Guest:No, I think his manager... At the time, I was already doing really well, so his manager let us meet, and then I got to sing with him after that.
Guest:I mean, it was incredible.
Marc:What did he sing?
Well...
Guest:With him, I sang that old tune.
Guest:It was on that duets album, Here We Go Again.
Guest:It's an old one he recorded back in the day.
Guest:And getting to open up for Willie Nelson right before my record came out when nobody knew who I was.
Marc:The first record.
Guest:Yeah, that was the biggest deal because he's my ultimate hero.
Marc:Right?
Guest:Willie, yeah.
Yeah?
Guest:I mean, talk about a jazz guitar player.
Guest:I mean, he plays like Django.
Marc:It's unbelievable.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:His guitar playing is unbelievable.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's kind of like my idol.
Guest:And he's the perfect example of someone who, to me, is genre-less, even though he's so country.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And also jazz.
Marc:Which record do you gravitate towards the most?
Marc:redhead stranger right i grew up on it that's such an amazing thing that record so good and then i got there there was a box of his rarities that i found to be like really amazing the demos yeah i love that oh my god beautiful you know the his evolution like you know what you know he's always remained true to himself but those those demos and those rare cuts like as a songwriter the songs themselves right permanently lonely
Marc:Yeah, the darkness in some of them.
Marc:Hello, Walls.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I still cry when I see him and Neil play.
Guest:I've seen them play so many times, and I still get, like, I cry every time.
Marc:But that's interesting that you say those two guys, because more than almost any other artist, that...
Marc:Even though they, Willie of several, and actually Neil too, over several periods of sound, their song books for the most part are timeless.
Guest:So good.
Marc:Like you can't tie them to a time.
Guest:No.
Marc:Like, and that was a, that's a tough thing to do in the sixties that all those Neil Young records in the sixties and seventies there, they're not hinged to, to gimmick or production to the point where you're like, it doesn't matter when this was made.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's transcendent.
Guest:It's so good.
Yeah.
Marc:So let's talk about I'd like to, you know, I mean, I just I listened to your latest record.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:And I and I listened to the one you did before that, the fall.
Marc:I mean, I know you write some songs and the more songs are written on some records and that, you know, producers make a difference.
Marc:But I'm curious about if we could talk about it, you know, what you how you caught up with your dad and how you appreciate, you know, his contribution to to music or how it had any impact on you.
Guest:I think.
Guest:i'm sure you've been asked that before yeah but i never have enough time to actually explain it properly okay you know what i mean um i didn't grow up listening to his music a lot because he wasn't around i think you know whenever i was 18 and we sort of got reunited i ended up going on tour with him for a few weeks to just hang out with him and my half sister who i met for the first time when i was 18 how old is she
Guest:She's two years younger than me, and we're super close now, and it's awesome.
Guest:It's like we both grew up only children, kind of, and always wanted a sister, and now we have it.
Guest:Now we've known each other almost as long as we didn't know each other, so it's nice.
Marc:And she's a musician.
Guest:And she's an amazing musician, and we have a very weirdly similar life, because we're musicians, and we tour, and we have kids.
Marc:What type of music does she play?
Guest:She plays the sitar she learned from my dad.
Marc:She learned from my dad.
Marc:Traditional Indian music in a way.
Guest:And she learned from my dad.
Guest:So very different upbringings musically.
Marc:Oh, interesting, yeah.
Guest:Very interesting and very different.
Guest:And so when I was touring around with him when I was 18, I was just kind of sitting in the audience and watching them play on stage together.
Guest:And it was really my introduction to that music.
Guest:And I mean, seeing him live was the most amazing thing.
Marc:It's interesting because in the Western brain, even in the jazz brain, the way one postures with that instrument and the way that the other musicians situate themselves is completely unique.
Marc:It's totally different.
Marc:You're already in a different time zone.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I don't, you know, over the years I've learned a little bit.
Guest:He taught me a few things.
Guest:I know he always wanted to teach me stuff, but he didn't want to, you know.
Guest:It was a polite thing a little bit.
Guest:And then finally we got in the room one day and
Guest:He taught me some stuff.
Guest:It was fun.
Guest:It was awesome.
Guest:But, you know, it's not my, it's not what I do.
Guest:It's not what I'm going to do.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:That kind of music, I really love listening to it.
Guest:And I really enjoyed learning a little bit more about the technical aspects of what they're doing.
Guest:Because you can't.
Guest:Tonally.
Guest:Well, it's like these ragas, it's like a different thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like a song, but it's not at all like a song.
Marc:Right.
Guest:It's a whole different way of a form and all that.
Marc:Yeah, and they're long songs.
Guest:They're very long.
Guest:But, you know, it's beautiful music.
Guest:It's just I don't need to understand it to love it, you know.
Marc:And how did the relationship, like, you know, what gave way in your heart to build that relationship with him?
Marc:Was it part of your evolution as a singer, too?
Marc:Like, I mean, because I know we talked about just in the sense that
Marc:When you talk about evolving and connecting your voice to your heart and having that, you know, and that that thing grows, you know, with you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All your experiences.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like did was there was there a tangible moment where you realize that, like, you know, I accept, you know, this relationship and my father and whatever happened is what it is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There were a few moments like that.
Guest:And, you know, it got a little complicated with my success at the time.
Guest:with him well just with everybody it just got weird for a minute but um i think we all worked through it and it was you know we knew our relationship and to me that's what mattered yeah you know not setting the record straight anywhere or it's too complicated yeah it's nobody's business either you know it's like sure i don't want people in my family shit you know yeah yeah and that's what was weird about it right
Guest:So anyway, yeah, over the years, we really got to be a really nice little family.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was great.
Guest:And, you know, for me, having that relationship with my sister was pretty awesome and kept me coming back even more.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My dad was really funny and fun person to be around.
Guest:But I also felt like I got to know him a little bit through my sister and my stepmom too.
Marc:Put some stuff together.
Guest:Totally.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Like it's a whole side of your genetics that has a completely different history.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, it's fascinating.
Guest:I know.
Marc:To get that all at once, I can't even imagine it.
Marc:You know, to all of a sudden decide to welcome yourself in and allow it to happen and then be given all that.
Guest:And then to go to India with him and realize that he's like a king, you know, pretty much.
Guest:You went to India with him?
Guest:Yeah, I went to India with him a few times.
Guest:I mean, just that whole side of my history.
Guest:You know, India is this... Talk about Texas being a country.
Guest:I mean, India is...
Marc:I've always wanted to go.
Marc:I've always been nervous.
Guest:Yeah, it's an intense place to visit, to be honest.
Guest:But it's amazing and it's beautiful.
Guest:And the fact that I'm half Indian, but I grew up totally separate from all that.
Guest:Texan.
Guest:I'm a Texan.
Guest:It was weird to go to India.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I related to it and it was beautiful, but it was just so weird to think, oh...
Guest:I'm half this, but I don't really know it that well, so show me around, you know?
Guest:Right.
Guest:I'm still, you know, learning.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Far from knowing it all.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I would imagine, you know, there's so many different levels just to the culture and to whatever religions were, you know, involved.
Marc:But do you ever talk to your sister about recording?
Yeah.
Guest:Well, I've recorded with her a few times on her records, yeah.
Guest:And we had a lot of fun on this one record, actually writing a couple songs together.
Guest:And it was right after my dad died.
Guest:And so I think for us, it was nice to kind of connect in that way.
Guest:Which record is that?
Guest:She makes so many records.
Guest:She just put out an awesome record last year called Land of Gold.
Guest:I'm not sure if it was the one before that or the one before that, actually.
Marc:What's her name?
Guest:Anushka Shankar.
Marc:And you sing on like three of her records?
Guest:I think I've done two records with her.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Have you ever had her play on yours?
Marc:No.
Marc:Not yet?
Guest:Not yet.
Guest:I mean, I love her.
Guest:She's incredible.
Guest:You should see her live sometime.
Marc:I will.
Guest:The sitar is a very specific sound.
Guest:It is.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And there's no hiding it.
Guest:There's no hiding it.
Guest:And she's done a really great job of just like, she's gone into a lot of different genres and different things.
Guest:And she's really found her voice.
Guest:She's amazing.
Marc:Does she have kids and stuff?
Guest:Yeah, she got two little kids.
Guest:Yeah, it's been fun kind of going through all that together.
Marc:Well, that's exciting.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then the last record is great.
Marc:I enjoyed it.
Marc:And you're going to tour?
Marc:Is this what's happening now?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:In March?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And you're just going all over the States?
Guest:Yeah, States and Europe and Japan.
Marc:How are the crowds?
Guest:Great.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah, it's been interesting over the years, my performing, relating to the crowds.
Guest:I wasn't always great at it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Do you talk to them?
Guest:Hit and miss.
Guest:I hated talking, then I talk too much, and then I talk less now because I hate when I talk too much on stage.
Guest:I find it kind of annoying.
Guest:But yeah, it's great.
Guest:The crowds have been amazing.
Marc:And do you play like sort of the whole catalog, bits and pieces?
Guest:Yeah, definitely.
Guest:And it's pretty cool.
Guest:I mean, all these kids were kids in their 20s or 30s.
Guest:They come up and they're like, oh, I used to listen to you when I was a kid.
Guest:I'm like, holy shit, I'm old.
Guest:What the fuck are you talking about?
Guest:But it makes sense because my first record came out almost 15 years ago.
Marc:And the last record was really, what, your sixth record?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, and I got some country bands and put out a bunch of stuff with.
Marc:What are they called?
Guest:The Little Willies.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:And Puss in Boots.
Marc:Do you ever tour with them?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:When you play these bigger shows and you're out on tour, what covers do you lean on?
Marc:What are your favorite covers do you repeat?
Yeah.
Guest:It just depends on the tour.
Marc:What's the stables?
Guest:Lately we've been doing Must Have Been the Roses, the dead tune.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That one always gets a lot of love.
Marc:People miss Jerry.
Guest:They do.
Guest:And they love him.
Guest:And it's a great song.
Marc:It is a great song.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we've been doing that after Leonard Cohen died and the political stuff was hitting the fan.
Guest:Well, still hitting the fan.
Marc:Oh, it's going to be hitting for a while.
Guest:I know.
Guest:But when it was right before the.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, it was right after the election.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And he died that week.
Guest:And it was just so crazy.
Guest:And we were doing Everybody Knows, that Leonard Cohen tune.
Marc:Oh, I've been listening to that.
Guest:God, it really hits home right now.
Guest:It's kind of crazy.
Guest:The lyrics.
Guest:It's funny how lyrics can be timeless.
Marc:Well, he's real good at that.
Marc:And it's taken me a long time to really appreciate it.
Marc:You know, just how that stripped down the poetry is, but how succinct it is.
Guest:Well, and all those old political songs from the 60s and everything.
Guest:Or even before stuff translates today because the same crap happens.
Marc:It's always the same.
Guest:It's always going to be relevant in a weird way.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:It's human.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Those are the human emotions and struggles.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's a shame, but it's also beautiful that we have that music.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, did you have fun?
Marc:You feel good?
Marc:I do.
Marc:Thank you for talking to me.
Guest:Thanks for having me.
Guest:It was fun.
Thank you.
Guest:Well, that was pleasant.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Breathe.
Marc:Breathe it out.
Marc:Breathe.
Marc:This is what Sarah makes me do.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Guitar.
Marc:Okay, hold on.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:Boomer lives!