Episode 784 - Steve Jones / Jed Maheu

Episode 784 • Released February 8, 2017 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuckadelics what the fuck nicks what's happening it's me mark maron this is my podcast wtf as you're hearing this i'm home i'm

00:00:24Marc:As I'm recording it, I'm not.

00:00:25Marc:And there may have been even two days in between me saying what's coming out of my mouth and you hearing it.

00:00:34Marc:So I'm not going to pretend to know what's going to happen.

00:00:37Marc:I'm just going to.

00:00:38Marc:And I've got two guests on the show.

00:00:40Marc:So I might just temper it a little bit because who the hell knows?

00:00:47Marc:Everything could be on fire by the time this goes up.

00:00:50Marc:We can only hope not.

00:00:52Marc:Also, I hope you're all taking care of yourself.

00:00:56Marc:Could you do that for me?

00:00:57Marc:Don't stress eat.

00:01:00Marc:Don't fear eat.

00:01:01Marc:Don't eat out of existential terror.

00:01:04Marc:Don't treat yourself shitty.

00:01:06Marc:Don't relapse on alcohol.

00:01:07Marc:Don't do more drugs.

00:01:09Marc:Stay focused.

00:01:10Marc:We got a long slog ahead of us, and it'd be good to take care of yourself.

00:01:14Marc:Let's not assume...

00:01:16Marc:that we're just going to throw it all in the garbage.

00:01:18Marc:I guess I'm talking to myself out loud.

00:01:23Marc:I've had to make tremendous concessions in the meat department.

00:01:27Marc:I'm just trying to see if I can get my fucking cholesterol down.

00:01:31Marc:I'm in Kauai.

00:01:32Marc:It's my last couple of days here.

00:01:35Marc:It's been amazing.

00:01:37Marc:I looked at Waimea Canyon.

00:01:39Marc:I'll tell you the kind of traveler I am.

00:01:42Marc:That's one of my favorite places to go on this island is to go up to Waimea.

00:01:46Marc:And did I tell you Steve Jones from the Sex Pistols is on the show?

00:01:50Marc:Did I mention that?

00:01:51Marc:I probably did not.

00:01:53Marc:Also, I got Jed Mayhew from the Zig Zags, who's a neighborhood kid, stopped by, got a new thing I'll tell you about in a second.

00:02:01Marc:So anyways, the drive from where we are to Waimea is no small trek, and the payoff is spectacular.

00:02:08Marc:It really, you know, I always save it for towards the end of the vacation because the red dirt and the depth and the beauty and the green smatterings and the waterfall and the clouds and all of it going out to the ocean and

00:02:19Marc:The entire expanse of it is spectacular.

00:02:22Marc:And you drive right up to a lookout.

00:02:24Marc:You don't have to get into a helicopter.

00:02:25Marc:You don't have to do a major hike.

00:02:27Marc:You just have to get out of your car and walk up there.

00:02:30Marc:And it's the best.

00:02:31Marc:It's one of the most beautiful things in the world.

00:02:34Marc:So we got out, and it was cloudy.

00:02:36Marc:We had a little rain last night, I'll be honest with you.

00:02:39Marc:But we spent an hour and a half driving up there.

00:02:42Marc:And before we left, Sarah said, you know, it's probably going to be all cloudy up there.

00:02:45Marc:Probably not going to be able to see anything.

00:02:46Marc:I'm like, no, it's going to be fine.

00:02:49Marc:Shit just blows over.

00:02:50Marc:So we drive an hour and a half up there.

00:02:52Marc:I don't want to see my favorite thing.

00:02:54Marc:And it was covered in clouds.

00:02:56Marc:You just went up to the lookout and you looked out and you just it was like you were looking into a cloud.

00:03:02Marc:nothing and it was drizzling out and a little chilly had not brought the proper attire and uh i was quietly furious i thought i was containing it and uh because i was disappointed so we got in the car and i said uh let's let's hang out let's just wait it out and we waited like 15 minutes nothing and

00:03:24Marc:And then I got snotty, and I said, so I guess you were right.

00:03:28Marc:Are you trying to prove to me that you were right, that it was going to be cloudy?

00:03:32Marc:Like, why do I got to be a dick sometimes?

00:03:35Marc:Why do vacations bring out the dick in us?

00:03:39Marc:I guess just a matter of time spent.

00:03:41Marc:I don't know.

00:03:42Marc:I don't know what maybe maybe I'm a dick more than I assume that I am.

00:03:45Marc:But we did wait it out and I wouldn't call it pouting.

00:03:48Marc:I would call it active waiting.

00:03:50Marc:Some of it was pleasant.

00:03:51Marc:You know, once I got through my little fucking, you know, childlike temper tantrum over nothing.

00:03:58Marc:uh it looked like it was breaking up a little bit and i walked back up there by myself again not pouting taking a little space sarah waited in the car she had gone out to take her space we're doing that taking timeouts great it's healthy i went back up there and it was like the clouds started dissipating and it was like unfolding it was like it was appearing it was almost like a a magic trick and

00:04:20Marc:It's like the mist was sort of going away and exposing this miraculous canyon and a rainbow formed over it.

00:04:34Marc:And I was ecstatic.

00:04:36Marc:Because it was beautiful and it wasn't cloudy up there all day.

00:04:42Marc:It was totally worth the trip.

00:04:44Marc:She was excited.

00:04:45Marc:I was excited.

00:04:46Marc:I shot what I think might be a major motion picture on my phone.

00:04:52Marc:Basically, it's just about a woman looking at a canyon.

00:04:58Marc:And her name's Sarah.

00:04:59Marc:I'm just going to call it Sarah in the Canyon.

00:05:01Marc:Hour and a half of that on my phone.

00:05:04Marc:But you know what, phones now go right into the theater.

00:05:07Marc:All right, so let's get back to the garage.

00:05:10Marc:Again, what you're hearing right now in your ears, I said a couple days ago.

00:05:15Marc:So I don't know where you're at.

00:05:17Marc:I don't know where the country's at.

00:05:18Marc:I don't know where the world's at.

00:05:19Marc:I know I was just at an Indian restaurant in Kauai, Hawaii.

00:05:23Marc:That's what I know for a fact.

00:05:26Marc:But this guy, this dude that I'm about to talk to, the Zig Zags, they're a band.

00:05:31Marc:They live in my neighborhood.

00:05:32Marc:They're releasing a new single as a download and on vinyl.

00:05:35Marc:It's called Ripping Death with the B-side Riddle of Steel.

00:05:39Marc:And you can preorder it now at famousclass.com.

00:05:44Marc:So Jed, he reaches out to me, tells me about this.

00:05:47Marc:I got their records.

00:05:48Marc:They did a song with Iggy Pop.

00:05:52Marc:They were pretty...

00:05:52Marc:Pretty punk, pretty hard.

00:05:54Marc:Now they seem to be drifting a little into medley land, which is fine.

00:05:57Marc:But Jed used to work at Town Pizza, and I had a feud with Town Pizza because I'm an asshole.

00:06:06Marc:It's a good pizza place right down the street from me, but I decided when they first opened they'd need to work on their crust, and I didn't think they were.

00:06:13Marc:So I baited them, and I tweeted at them a picture of New York pizza.

00:06:16Marc:It was a big...

00:06:17Marc:It was scandalous.

00:06:19Marc:And now their pizza is tremendous.

00:06:21Marc:And I felt bad, and I think I might have permanently pissed off one of the owners.

00:06:25Marc:I don't know.

00:06:26Marc:But I do recommend Town Pizza.

00:06:28Marc:It's one of the only places you get a fresh slice, you know, like all the time.

00:06:32Marc:Right down the street, Highland Park, Town Pizza.

00:06:34Marc:I'm just putting that out there, trying to make good.

00:06:37Marc:I'll talk to Jed about it.

00:06:39Marc:But this is me and Jed Mayhew of the Zig Zags in the garage.

00:06:45Marc:The first time I met you, the Zig Zags, I met you before.

00:06:58Marc:Yeah.

00:06:58Marc:But it was, you were at the pizza place.

00:06:59Marc:Yeah, I was at town.

00:07:01Marc:You're working at town.

00:07:01Marc:I was working at town.

00:07:02Marc:I was persona non grata for a while.

00:07:05Marc:No, I got a good story about that.

00:07:06Marc:Oh, please, because like, let me tell you something, man.

00:07:09Marc:Like, I felt shitty about it.

00:07:10Marc:I know.

00:07:11Marc:And then, you know, the dude, one of the owners.

00:07:13Marc:Yeah, Joram.

00:07:14Marc:Joram.

00:07:14Marc:joram joram yeah joram like i had done the like i said my piece about the crust and then they did not really fix the crust in my mind and it was you know coming from new york uh like i was upset about it kind of but you know pizza's pizza and people seemed to be enjoying it and there was part of me that thought people were being misled this pizza crust needs to be better and they have it within their power to do it they're already doing well and i made a comment on twitter where i i did you see the tweet oh yeah later but that's uh that's the whole story though

00:07:43Marc:But so then I see Joram, who I'd met, and I like local business.

00:07:47Marc:I'm happy everyone's happy in the neighborhood.

00:07:49Marc:But I ran into him at Cafe de Leche, and he just gave me a stink eye that was like, you're dead to me.

00:07:55Guest:Well, you got to understand, when you're going in and you got all your stuff in a business, he's having a kid.

00:08:01Guest:His whole life is riding on this thing.

00:08:03Guest:He's got so much anxiety already from just opening the business.

00:08:07Guest:Yeah, I know.

00:08:08Okay.

00:08:08Guest:But then I corrected it.

00:08:11Guest:I know.

00:08:12Guest:But I was in there.

00:08:12Guest:So this is the thing.

00:08:13Guest:I was like the morning prep guy.

00:08:15Guest:So I would come in before everyone else and prep all the ingredients.

00:08:18Guest:Yeah.

00:08:18Guest:And then cook all the pizzas and get them ready for the service when the doors open for lunch.

00:08:24Guest:But I would always listen to WTF as I'm alone in this room making pizzas every morning.

00:08:29Guest:And one day he comes in.

00:08:31Guest:It had happened the night before.

00:08:33Guest:I wasn't aware of it.

00:08:34Guest:The tweet.

00:08:35Guest:Yeah, and I'm hungover and I'm making pizzas.

00:08:37Guest:And he's just like, turn that shit off.

00:08:40Guest:I'm like, what?

00:08:40Guest:What are you talking about?

00:08:41Guest:He's like, I can't listen to that right now.

00:08:43Guest:I just, I can't deal with it.

00:08:44Guest:You know, I can't listen.

00:08:45Guest:Oh, man.

00:08:46Guest:It's like, I got to listen to something.

00:08:48Marc:But then what happened was I, you know, I revisited and I made a positive comment in the LA Times.

00:08:57Guest:Yes.

00:08:57Marc:And I think it's okay now.

00:08:59Guest:I think it's fine.

00:09:00Guest:And I got to say, you know, I've been there myself.

00:09:04Guest:Anyone who knows me knows that I made a lot of those kinds of apologies, too.

00:09:09Marc:But the pizza's fine.

00:09:10Marc:Yeah, it's fine.

00:09:11Marc:They're doing good.

00:09:11Marc:Yeah, they're doing good.

00:09:12Marc:They're busy.

00:09:13Marc:But you used to be the guy out back smoking the cigarette, right?

00:09:15Marc:One of them, yeah.

00:09:17Marc:And I always felt like, I'm like, I remember that.

00:09:19Marc:I used to like standing out back with the restaurant I worked at smoking the cigarette.

00:09:22Guest:You got to.

00:09:23Guest:Yeah.

00:09:23Guest:That's what you look forward to.

00:09:24Guest:Yeah.

00:09:25Marc:You get that five minutes, smoke the cigarette, and then you go back to the dough.

00:09:28Guest:Yeah.

00:09:28Guest:And then when you're done, you and the rest of the people that work there, they go down to Johnny's, and then some weird shit happens, and then it's real uncomfortable the next day at work.

00:09:37Marc:That's where it goes.

00:09:37Marc:That's the restaurant life.

00:09:39Marc:Well, I quit drinking, so that part of it, I'm out of the loop.

00:09:43Marc:But the Zig Zags, now you guys are on your third record.

00:09:46Guest:Well, we're on the second full-length album that came out in May on a label here that's actually out at Eagle Rock called Castleface Records.

00:09:55Guest:But this single that's coming out that we're talking about today comes out next month on a label called Famous Class, which is out in New York.

00:10:02Guest:You say your name's Cajun?

00:10:04Guest:The last name, yeah.

00:10:05Guest:Well, that's the first name Jed could be considered.

00:10:07Guest:Jed Mayhew?

00:10:08Guest:Yeah, Jedediah J Mayhew.

00:10:10Guest:Yeah, that's not Southern at all.

00:10:13Guest:No, not at all.

00:10:13Guest:Did you grow up down there?

00:10:14Guest:My dad's from New Orleans.

00:10:15Guest:Yeah?

00:10:16Guest:And I grew up in, when he got out of the Army, he came back and ended up in Portland, Oregon.

00:10:24Guest:really yeah so you're like an actual portland kid i'm born in portland oregon clackamas oregon which is uh clackamas the shithole right outside of portland but i don't know if you ever know that you know that band dead moon uh-uh i got a hippie to dead moon that's like my favorite my my favorite band of all time happens to be from the same unknown shitty town that i'm from yeah yeah really yeah clackamas oregon what like what what label are they on

00:10:47Guest:They're on their own record label, Tombstone Records.

00:10:50Guest:They're a couple.

00:10:51Guest:The guy was a... What is it?

00:10:53Guest:Dead Moon?

00:10:53Guest:Yeah.

00:10:54Guest:Fred Cole, who's the singer, started out as a teen idol in the 60s down here.

00:10:59Guest:Really?

00:10:59Guest:Doing blue-eyed soul.

00:11:02Guest:And now him and his wife still troll around, play music.

00:11:05Guest:They're playing in Berlin the night before we get there.

00:11:07Guest:And they're in their late 60s.

00:11:09Guest:And they're the rawest, rockingest fuck.

00:11:12Guest:They record their albums...

00:11:14Guest:themselves and cut the cut the lathe themselves on the lathe that they cut louie louie on really she bought the lathe for him for his birthday like you know 20 years ago so they do small batches yeah small batches artisanal batches and they all sound every record sounds different too because he's in there you know cutting the lathe you know smoking cigarettes and drinking whiskey you know that's insane yeah i gotta get you some of that stuff so growing up in portland before it got hip was that like oh it's a shithole

00:11:41Marc:Right.

00:11:41Marc:It wasn't like, but was there at least some original colonizers up there?

00:11:46Marc:Was it a hippie hole?

00:11:47Marc:Was it like growing up in like Humboldt or Bolinas?

00:11:50Guest:Well, that's why they ended up there because they were trying to, he was kind of trying to get out of the draft and he went on tour with his band and he met her up there.

00:11:56Guest:And I think, you know, that's kind of where my parents met through Scientology up there.

00:12:02Guest:Yeah.

00:12:02Guest:Did they stay in?

00:12:03Guest:No, no, no, no.

00:12:04Guest:They got out immediately, but...

00:12:06Marc:But they met.

00:12:07Guest:Yeah, that's- A couple of lost people.

00:12:09Guest:I think there were a lot of seekers, you know, at the time up there, you know?

00:12:12Marc:Right, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:12:13Marc:That's hilarious.

00:12:14Guest:Trying to get out of Babylon, you know?

00:12:16Marc:The early version.

00:12:17Guest:Uh-huh.

00:12:17Marc:Like, Elrond was probably making the rounds himself then.

00:12:20Guest:He might have been, you know, he might have had the boat docked over there.

00:12:23Guest:Yeah, maybe.

00:12:24Marc:That's wild, dude.

00:12:26Marc:Yeah.

00:12:26Marc:So, like, it seems to me that this new single is- Is it my imagination or is it actually heavier metal than the last couple?

00:12:36Marc:Yeah.

00:12:36Guest:It's getting heavier by the day.

00:12:38Guest:It is, right?

00:12:39Guest:Yeah, I think so.

00:12:40Guest:We're getting faster.

00:12:41Marc:We're getting heavier.

00:12:42Marc:Because I'm like, you know what I was thinking when I heard it?

00:12:46Marc:Like the B-side, what's that one called?

00:12:48Marc:Riddle of Steel.

00:12:49Marc:Riddle of Steel.

00:12:49Marc:I'm thinking like, this is Maiden.

00:12:51Guest:Yeah, we just shot a video for it in a vintage arcade over in Glendale.

00:12:54Guest:Really?

00:12:54Guest:Yeah.

00:12:54Marc:It's a little Maiden-y, isn't it?

00:12:55Guest:It's totally Maiden-y.

00:12:56Guest:Yeah.

00:12:57Guest:Yeah, for sure.

00:12:57Marc:I'm so glad I was able to call that.

00:12:59Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:12:59Marc:Being married to a metalhead for a few years, the one thing I knew was Maiden.

00:13:04Guest:Well, you know, that's the thing.

00:13:05Guest:In true Zig Zags fashion, it's like the first song, the A side is all about war in the Middle East and all the shit going on.

00:13:16Guest:And then the B side is about Conan the Barbarian.

00:13:19Marc:There you go.

00:13:20Marc:Relevant and mythological.

00:13:23Marc:Exactly.

00:13:24Marc:But I noticed right away that it's like you guys are going full metal.

00:13:28Marc:Yeah, for sure.

00:13:29Marc:Because before it was sort of like, all right, this is psych rock.

00:13:32Marc:Yeah.

00:13:32Marc:And now we're heading into another zone.

00:13:34Marc:Exactly.

00:13:35Marc:Now let's talk about that single you sent me a while back, the Iggy Pop thing.

00:13:40Marc:Right.

00:13:40Marc:How did that happen?

00:13:41Marc:What was that song?

00:13:43Guest:That was a cover of Bette Davis.

00:13:45Guest:Oh, right, right, right.

00:13:47Guest:If I'm in luck, I might just get picked up.

00:13:49Guest:yeah and i think at the time i'm this is what i heard is that iggy was scheduled to do something with light in the attic records yep and it fell through yeah and he owed him a favor he'd been paid already you know oh really i wonder what he was gonna do with them were they gonna do a new record well they were doing these things where they were taking like new bands and older artists and putting them together and having them do like a cover song okay

00:14:13Guest:And so whatever originally he was supposed to do kind of fell through, and then they asked us to do that thing with him, and of course we were just like fucking totally honored to do it.

00:14:24Marc:Yeah, sure, man.

00:14:25Guest:So we recorded the music here and then sent it down to Miami, and he did the vocals there.

00:14:29Marc:Oh, you didn't get to hang out?

00:14:31Marc:No.

00:14:31Marc:I guess he can just do that, just show up with that voice.

00:14:35Guest:Yeah.

00:14:36Guest:So what kind of guitar are you playing, dude?

00:14:38Guest:I'm playing two now.

00:14:39Guest:I got a Jackson.

00:14:41Guest:really yeah like it like a like a weird shaped one no it looks like a super strat they call it you know a new one uh it's from like 10 years ago or something like that it's like it's just like a pointy strat and then i play a charvel uh which was like the kind of original like uh what like eddie van halen used to play yeah and what kind of what's the amp

00:15:00Guest:The amp is an old... This is a good one.

00:15:03Guest:The amp is an old music man from the 70s.

00:15:06Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:15:07Guest:And the guy I got that thing off of, I saw it on Craigslist.

00:15:10Guest:He wanted like 200 bucks for it.

00:15:12Guest:It was new old... He had bought it on layaway for his punk band in Detroit.

00:15:16Guest:Moved out here in 1978.

00:15:17Guest:Got a job doing sound on commercials.

00:15:20Guest:Put the amp in the fucking closet.

00:15:22Guest:Never looked at it again.

00:15:23Guest:And then when I needed it retubed, I found... This is the great thing about living in LA or Southern California.

00:15:28Guest:Yeah.

00:15:28Guest:But I need it retubed.

00:15:29Guest:Yeah.

00:15:30Guest:They're like, oh, well, I go down to Jack over here at Future Music.

00:15:33Guest:Oh, Jack.

00:15:34Guest:I'm like, hey, who?

00:15:35Guest:He's like, oh, no one wants to work on those fucking things.

00:15:37Guest:He's like, I know the guy that used to work at the factory.

00:15:39Guest:Right.

00:15:40Guest:Who built these amps.

00:15:41Guest:Yeah.

00:15:42Guest:Here's his number.

00:15:42Guest:Sure.

00:15:43Guest:So I go down to Garden Grove.

00:15:44Guest:Yeah.

00:15:44Guest:There's like this fucking, you know, morbidly obese guy surrounded with, you know, tubes, you know, and resistors and wire and shit, you know.

00:15:52Guest:He's like, oh, I remember this amp.

00:15:53Guest:I built three of these for Clapton on his 78 tour.

00:15:56Guest:I'm like, well, there you go.

00:15:57Guest:Yeah.

00:15:57Guest:L.A., man.

00:15:58Guest:Yeah, only in L.A.

00:15:59Marc:Yeah, he sent me over to some dude's house to get my guitar worked on.

00:16:02Marc:Wasn't the guy that used to play with Dio or somebody?

00:16:04Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:16:06Marc:Fuck, I can't remember.

00:16:07Guest:In La Kenyatta?

00:16:07Guest:Yes, yes.

00:16:08Guest:I know exactly who you're talking about.

00:16:10Guest:Was it Dio or was it Dockin?

00:16:12Guest:Dockin, yeah, Dockin.

00:16:13Guest:George Lynch's guy.

00:16:14Guest:He played with those guys over there.

00:16:16Marc:He's a nice guy.

00:16:17Marc:And, you know, he was in the house.

00:16:18Marc:You go into the back, into the garage area.

00:16:21Marc:There's reptiles.

00:16:22Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:16:23Guest:There's always reptiles.

00:16:25Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:16:25Marc:And just stacks of old amps and shit.

00:16:28Guest:Yeah.

00:16:28Marc:And a workbench and some guitars.

00:16:30Marc:Totally.

00:16:30Marc:Things half apart.

00:16:32Marc:The monitor lizard.

00:16:33Marc:Yeah.

00:16:33Marc:He had some sort of lizards in there.

00:16:36Marc:Yeah.

00:16:36Marc:Ferrets.

00:16:37Guest:Yeah.

00:16:37Guest:There's always guys with ferrets.

00:16:38Marc:Yeah.

00:16:38Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:16:39Marc:They're just like, what are you doing, man?

00:16:40Marc:Yeah.

00:16:40Marc:But there's always that moment where they got a guitar, and they're playing through your amp.

00:16:46Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:16:46Marc:And they're like, sounds pretty good.

00:16:47Marc:I'm like, it does sound good.

00:16:48Marc:Yeah, when you're playing it.

00:16:49Marc:Then they hand you the guitar, and I can play okay.

00:16:53Marc:But then you have that back-and-forth cockfight, which is always one round with me.

00:16:57Marc:I'll do my dinky blues riffs, and he takes it back, and his fingers are going in areas I don't even know how he's doing it.

00:17:03Guest:You're like, how'd you get reverb?

00:17:04Guest:It doesn't even have reverb.

00:17:05Marc:Yeah, what are you doing?

00:17:07Marc:It's just a technique.

00:17:09Oh, fuck, yeah.

00:17:09Guest:but he's a good guy and that future music is sort of like it's classic oh it's the hub we got our drum set from there and it was this total thing where it was just like you know it was like a consignment deal you know but jack's just like all right just take it yeah pay me later i'll talk to the guy yeah it's just like you need those fucking people man when you're just like right and that's the way it used to be yeah it yeah exactly he's like you know we can pay card or you know if you give me cash you know like you needed to go between totally

00:17:37Marc:The guy that was sort of like, you know, that he was the hub of like people with different sorts of, you know, kind of pieces of equipment.

00:17:45Guest:For sure.

00:17:45Guest:And trouble.

00:17:46Guest:Yeah.

00:17:46Guest:And needed to move shit.

00:17:48Guest:He just lets me take stuff and like try it out and bring it back.

00:17:50Guest:You know, it's like.

00:17:51Guest:It's good.

00:17:52Guest:It's not.

00:17:53Guest:Yeah.

00:17:53Marc:And it's good because now that this area has become such a music hub.

00:17:56Marc:Yeah.

00:17:57Marc:Because what Dwyer's here.

00:17:58Marc:You guys are here.

00:17:59Marc:Ty's here.

00:17:59Guest:Ty's here.

00:18:00Marc:uh is uh kyle still here kyle's here yeah yeah yeah all those guys i don't know where my michael cronin is somewhere but he's with i think he's on the other side yeah he's somewhere around here i think he's here yeah and then the guy who does austin you know austin hooks no there's a little highbrow we're getting a little out of it we're getting a little out of the gutter we're getting a little out of the psych i like to keep it dumb so you know we're getting a little out of the psych rock world yeah

00:18:24Marc:into austin hooks who who guts these old projector heads okay and he makes cabinets for dawes oh nice yeah i was just hanging out with the guy one of the guys from dawes last night yeah and uh blake mills okay yeah he's blake mills's amp guy gotcha so he's a real like analog nerd sure sure sure and i don't know if he if he knows i still have this thing like this was the prototype and he said just keep it here because i don't want to sell it right and i'm like all right yeah i don't even know how to work it really yeah

00:18:51Guest:I got a couple of those things, too.

00:18:53Marc:I'm holding it for him.

00:18:54Marc:Yeah.

00:18:55Marc:All right, dude.

00:18:55Marc:So the single, how's it work now?

00:18:57Marc:So you're going to put it out on vinyl, and I saw the cover art.

00:19:02Marc:Yep.

00:19:03Marc:What is it?

00:19:03Marc:It's someone ripping apart.

00:19:05Guest:It's like our version of Eddie, like Iron Maiden's Eddie.

00:19:08Guest:We have Randy.

00:19:08Guest:Okay.

00:19:09Guest:Who was my babysitter when I lived in the trailer park in Clackamas.

00:19:13Guest:It was like this redheaded mullet guy who would like take me down to like this place called High Rocks, which was like he jumped into the river and they would all smoke dope and these girls would come down and I'd be like...

00:19:23Guest:what's going on this is grown-up land yeah yeah yeah yeah so randy was my babysitter so when i needed a mascot yeah named him randy he's our version of eddie he's a skull-faced hesher you know yeah loser yeah whatever so the image is him with the jackson guitar with saw blades on it sawing through donald trump's face there you go political political action and the and the record comes on a spray orange tan colored vinyl

00:19:49Guest:There you go.

00:19:50Guest:You're doing something.

00:19:51Marc:That ought to do it.

00:19:53Marc:That's going to save us.

00:19:54Marc:Jed, I think you really struck a blow.

00:19:57Marc:Yeah.

00:19:58Guest:It really went out on a limb there.

00:20:00Guest:It was either that or play the inauguration.

00:20:02Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:20:03Guest:You turned that down.

00:20:03Guest:Yeah, we turned that down immediately.

00:20:05Guest:Where can they get it?

00:20:06Guest:uh you're gonna be able to get on famousclass.com uh the pre-orders are gonna go up uh like whenever this is airing so and we're doing like a record release show at the resident downtown here on february 16th and we'll have the records with us then oh so we just promote we promote everything is your how's the european tour you want me to let's push that

00:20:25Guest:Yeah, that starts March 1st.

00:20:27Guest:Yeah.

00:20:29Guest:We get into Berlin, and I think the first show is in Würzburg.

00:20:32Guest:Yeah.

00:20:33Guest:Which the last time we played there was at a 500-year-old women's prison.

00:20:36Guest:Really?

00:20:37Guest:Yeah.

00:20:37Guest:Still working?

00:20:39Guest:No, it's a club now.

00:20:40Guest:Oh, okay.

00:20:41Guest:I didn't know if they split it up.

00:20:42Guest:Well, yeah, they wheel them out in cages while you play, you know.

00:20:45Marc:I thought it might be like some sort of work program.

00:20:47Guest:It's witches.

00:20:47Guest:Yeah.

00:20:48Marc:Oh, man.

00:20:49Guest:And then where do you go?

00:20:50Guest:You go to Germany?

00:20:51Guest:We go all over Germany.

00:20:52Guest:We go to France.

00:20:53Guest:We go to Italy.

00:20:53Guest:We go to Austria.

00:20:54Guest:We go to Sweden.

00:20:55Guest:We go to the UK.

00:20:56Guest:We're going to Dublin, Ireland, which I'm really excited about.

00:20:58Guest:I love Dublin.

00:20:58Guest:Where are you playing there?

00:20:59Guest:I don't even know.

00:21:00Guest:Oh.

00:21:01Guest:But I'm excited.

00:21:02Guest:Dublin's great.

00:21:03Guest:I've never been there.

00:21:03Guest:I'm excited to go.

00:21:04Guest:It's great.

00:21:04Guest:Yeah.

00:21:05Marc:It's a great city.

00:21:06Guest:Yeah.

00:21:06Marc:Pretty.

00:21:07Guest:I can imagine, you know.

00:21:08Marc:And how's your following in the Europe season?

00:21:09Guest:uh we've been over there once and it was uh it did pretty good we played like some festivals and stuff and we played a lot of small like club shows and then you know but it's like some kid drove like five hours from another country to see you and it's just like it's amazing you know so all right so well if people don't know you let's lay into this track now i've never i don't usually set up tracks no no can we play the b-side yeah you can play whatever you want

00:21:34Marc:What's the name of the song again?

00:21:35Marc:Riddle of Steel.

00:21:36Marc:All right, thanks for talking, Jed.

00:21:38Marc:This is Zig Zag's Riddle of Steel.

00:21:39Marc:Thanks for having me, Mark.

00:21:40Guest:There was a time, boy, when I searched for steel.

00:21:45Guest:And steel meant more than even gold or jewels.

00:21:51Guest:It's a riddle of steel.

00:21:54Guest:Yes.

00:21:56Guest:You know what it is, don't you, boy?

00:21:59Guest:Shall I tell you?

00:22:32Guest:Taken, beaten, forged into a man, who will abide in only wealth.

00:22:50Guest:To die, to fight, to save our lives, to be free at night, we hide.

00:22:52Guest:We take what we need, the fire, the wind, it comes from the sky And I will be the answer, the answer to the riddle of the deal

00:23:21Guest:We'll be right back.

00:23:49Guest:The answer to the riddle of the seal

00:24:02Marc:What you're hearing right now is Riddle of Steel, the B-side on the ripping death single by the Zig Zags.

00:24:09Marc:It's available February 24th.

00:24:11Marc:You can pre-order it now from Famous Class Records at famousclass.com.

00:24:16Marc:They're donating a portion of sales to Planned Parenthood.

00:24:19Marc:You can also check the Zig Zags out at zigzags.bandcamp.com.

00:24:25Marc:He's a good guy.

00:24:26Marc:He used to work down at the pizza place over there.

00:24:29Marc:Okay?

00:24:30Marc:All right.

00:24:31Marc:So let's talk to a sex pistol.

00:24:33Marc:I'll be honest with you.

00:24:35Marc:It is between us.

00:24:37Marc:I've had a couple opportunities to talk to John Lydon, and I didn't.

00:24:43Marc:I just didn't.

00:24:45Marc:But Steve Jones, I was happy to talk to Steve Jones.

00:24:50Marc:I've done Steve Jones' show.

00:24:52Marc:He's got Jonesy's Jukebox out here in Los Angeles.

00:24:56Marc:And he's got this new memoir out, Lonely Boy, Tales of a Sex Pistol.

00:25:01Marc:It's available now wherever you get books.

00:25:03Marc:This is me and an original sex pistol.

00:25:07Marc:Talking about music and drugs and life.

00:25:12Marc:You know, that stuff.

00:25:25Guest:What do you think of Jethro Tull?

00:25:28Guest:I actually never liked him back in the day.

00:25:30Guest:Right.

00:25:30Guest:But I actually like him now.

00:25:32Marc:It's something weird is happening to me around Jethro Tull.

00:25:35Marc:You're changing too?

00:25:37Marc:Well, one of the first records I had was that Aqualung record.

00:25:40Marc:And it wasn't bad.

00:25:41Marc:But what was really annoying about him was the get-up and the flute and the ridiculous dancing.

00:25:48Marc:The tights.

00:25:49Marc:You listen to the music, some of it rocks pretty hard.

00:25:51Marc:Yeah.

00:25:52Marc:So I don't know.

00:25:54Marc:When I talk to people who grew up in England, I need to hear about it because I don't really know much about England in terms of I can only learn from people.

00:26:03Marc:I don't spend a lot of time there.

00:26:05Marc:Yeah.

00:26:05Marc:So where did you grow up?

00:26:07Guest:West London.

00:26:08Marc:So right in the city.

00:26:09Guest:Yeah.

00:26:10Guest:Not...

00:26:12Guest:When you say the city.

00:26:14Guest:Yeah.

00:26:15Guest:The city could mean like right where Piccadilly Circus is.

00:26:18Guest:Sure.

00:26:19Guest:That's like the inner city.

00:26:20Guest:No, that's the inner city.

00:26:22Guest:Okay.

00:26:22Guest:And it all comes out, spreads out around that.

00:26:25Guest:Yeah.

00:26:26Guest:So there's no like downtown.

00:26:28Guest:Right.

00:26:28Guest:Where you head downtown.

00:26:29Guest:Yeah.

00:26:29Guest:And then it pushes out, and I'm kind of like west of all that.

00:26:34Guest:A place called Hammersmith, where this place called the Hammersmith Odeon.

00:26:38Guest:Back in the day, it was called the Hammersmith Odeon.

00:26:41Guest:Now it's called the Hammersmith Apollo by the Hammersmith Flyover.

00:26:45Guest:All the bands play there who come into town, if you're at that level, like 5,000.

00:26:50Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:26:51Guest:I've heard of that.

00:26:52Guest:Yeah.

00:26:52Guest:It's a famous place.

00:26:53Guest:Bowie's last show was there where he did his farewell to Ziggy Stardust.

00:27:00Guest:Oh, really?

00:27:01Marc:He shedded the persona.

00:27:03Guest:Yeah, and that was the one where I stole all of his equipment.

00:27:06Marc:That's a true story.

00:27:07Guest:Yeah.

00:27:09Marc:Well, you think I made it up?

00:27:10Marc:No, I didn't think you made it up.

00:27:11Marc:I thought it was a rumor.

00:27:13Yeah.

00:27:14Guest:No, so... Oh, man.

00:27:17Guest:Were you with the Sex Pistols already?

00:27:18Guest:No, no, no.

00:27:19Guest:This was prior to any band.

00:27:22Guest:I might have been messing about with Cookie at this point, but nothing serious has happened.

00:27:27Guest:Is he still around?

00:27:28Guest:Yeah.

00:27:28Guest:And you guys are still pals?

00:27:29Guest:Oh, he's my oldest friend.

00:27:30Guest:I've known him since I was 10.

00:27:32Guest:We're still good buddies.

00:27:34Guest:That's a beautiful thing, isn't it?

00:27:36Guest:It is.

00:27:36Guest:It is when you've got a couple of pals like that.

00:27:38Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:27:39Guest:It's the best.

00:27:39Marc:So did you go to the show, the Bowie show?

00:27:43Guest:Yeah.

00:27:44Guest:I didn't realize that they were doing two nights.

00:27:47Guest:Yeah.

00:27:47Guest:You know, and I didn't realize what recording meant at this stage.

00:27:51Guest:So we watched the show.

00:27:52Guest:Everyone's screaming.

00:27:53Guest:It's great.

00:27:54Guest:All the young girls are screaming.

00:27:56Guest:And it's a typical Ziggy Stardust Spiders from Mars concert.

00:28:01Guest:what's this 70 what 72 73 yeah I believe somewhere in there the show ends I know this place like the back of my hand Hammersmith Odeon why because I I live around the corner and I used to get no ways to get in to see every concert I saw Mott the Hoople there I saw Bob Marley there I saw Queen I saw everybody there you saw them at the peak of their careers or right before they peaked probably yeah it's 5,000 seaters yeah

00:28:28Marc:First tour stuff.

00:28:29Marc:Yeah, I guess so.

00:28:31Marc:In Mata Hoopal.

00:28:31Marc:Well, they started there, right?

00:28:33Marc:In UK, right?

00:28:35Marc:Yeah.

00:28:35Marc:So you were the glam guys.

00:28:37Marc:You like the glam guys?

00:28:38Marc:That was my thing.

00:28:39Marc:Yeah?

00:28:40Guest:Roxy Music.

00:28:41Guest:Oh.

00:28:41Guest:David Bowie.

00:28:42Guest:The Faces.

00:28:43Marc:Bolin.

00:28:44Marc:Bolin.

00:28:44Marc:Rod Stewart and the Faces.

00:28:45Marc:Faces isn't really glam.

00:28:47Marc:That's good.

00:28:47Marc:That's a rock.

00:28:48Marc:It's a little folksier, right?

00:28:49Marc:Yeah.

00:28:49Guest:Yeah, it's a bit more bluesy, I suppose.

00:28:51Guest:But they looked the part.

00:28:52Guest:They could have fitted in.

00:28:54Guest:The hair.

00:28:54Guest:Satin pants and that lovely head I could never get.

00:28:57Guest:What a great band they were, huh?

00:28:59Guest:Oh, they were fantastic.

00:29:00Guest:You saw them live a few times?

00:29:01Guest:Oh, all the time.

00:29:02Guest:Yeah.

00:29:03Guest:I was obsessed with Rod Stewart.

00:29:05Guest:You were?

00:29:05Guest:I really was.

00:29:07Guest:There was a combination.

00:29:08Guest:In a good way?

00:29:09Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:29:09Guest:Yeah?

00:29:10Guest:It was the voice.

00:29:11Guest:It was the haircut.

00:29:12Guest:The hair.

00:29:13Guest:And it was the songs.

00:29:14Yeah.

00:29:14Guest:yeah i had all all of his solo albums yeah and then all the faces albums at some point did rod stewart did you turn on him or you stayed with him all the way through i didn't turn on him but i went off him when he came to america and he got all poncy poncy that's the word when he was uh when he kept with his brickland i think she punched him up a bit

00:29:35Marc:because like at some point you know this guy had like one of the most unique and greatest voices in rock and roll and then right around i don't remember when when it happened but uh i think it was like the blondes have more fun single uh or some one of those atlantic crossing yeah something happened where it's just sort of like nah it's done it stopped being uh cool he became a perfume punts

00:29:58Guest:yeah something yeah it just wasn't good yeah and the voice didn't change just didn't like him anymore no he had a different band yeah was trying to be the faces but when you're a real faces fan like me it wasn't the same all right so you know the place you go you go watch you see bowie the show ends i hang around yeah um

00:30:21Marc:How old are you, like 15?

00:30:22Guest:Yeah.

00:30:23Guest:I borrow someone's minivan.

00:30:27Guest:Me and another guy, he's dead now.

00:30:29Guest:We got in there about two in the morning.

00:30:32Guest:There's no one in there.

00:30:34Guest:They got a roadie asleep in the fifth row.

00:30:36Guest:The house lights are on.

00:30:39Guest:The house lights are on the stage.

00:30:43Guest:So it's kind of surreal.

00:30:44Guest:It's so quiet in there.

00:30:46Guest:This guy's snoring.

00:30:47Marc:Are they packing up shit?

00:30:48Guest:No, everyone's gone.

00:30:49Guest:It's just 2 in the morning.

00:30:50Guest:Everyone's gone.

00:30:51Marc:So they're going to pick it up the next day?

00:30:53Guest:They're playing tomorrow.

00:30:54Guest:Oh, the day before.

00:30:55Guest:They're doing two nights.

00:30:56Guest:Got it.

00:30:57Guest:Oh, I get it.

00:30:57Marc:I get it.

00:30:58Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:30:58Guest:So all the gear's set up.

00:31:00Guest:Yeah.

00:31:00Guest:This guy is snoring.

00:31:02Guest:Yeah.

00:31:02Guest:I sneak in with my wire cutters.

00:31:05Guest:I proceed to go on the stage and cut all these beautiful mics.

00:31:09Guest:I didn't realize they were for recording.

00:31:11Guest:Yeah.

00:31:12Guest:These fantastic Neumann mics.

00:31:13Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:31:15Guest:I get them.

00:31:15Guest:I take the cymbals, the drums.

00:31:17Marc:Why didn't you just unplug them?

00:31:18Marc:What'd you cut everything for?

00:31:20Guest:Because I'm an idiot.

00:31:21Guest:I didn't know what I was doing.

00:31:22Guest:You know what I mean?

00:31:24Guest:You just made them useless.

00:31:25Yeah.

00:31:26Guest:Well, the wires were useless, yeah.

00:31:29Guest:Oh, that's right.

00:31:30Guest:You can unplug the cable.

00:31:31Guest:Unplug them later.

00:31:33Guest:Got the bass head.

00:31:35Guest:It was a sun amp.

00:31:37Guest:It was a sun set up, one of them new solid state.

00:31:40Guest:It was a big deal back then.

00:31:41Guest:Still didn't know what it was.

00:31:43Guest:It was the bass player's head.

00:31:45Guest:Loaded it all up in the minivan.

00:31:46Guest:No guitars.

00:31:47Guest:No guitars.

00:31:48Guest:No guitars, but the crown jewel was Bowie's microphone.

00:31:53Guest:It was this little tiny electro voice.

00:31:56Guest:You can see it because they filmed it with lipstick all on the edge of it, on the end of it.

00:32:01Guest:You got it.

00:32:01Guest:I got it, but I don't have it.

00:32:04Guest:What happened to it?

00:32:05Guest:Who knows?

00:32:06Guest:He sold it.

00:32:07Guest:I became a junkie.

00:32:08Guest:Junkies don't keep anything.

00:32:09Marc:Moves around.

00:32:11Marc:Someone's got it.

00:32:11Marc:So that was the movie, Ziggy?

00:32:14Marc:That was the Ziggy movie?

00:32:15Marc:That full concert?

00:32:17Guest:Yeah.

00:32:17Marc:That was done at Hammersmith?

00:32:18Marc:Yeah.

00:32:19Marc:And you got that mic?

00:32:21Guest:Yeah.

00:32:21Guest:you were your junkie already no i was 15 i didn't start doing dope till after the pistols when i was 22. so what do you when you grow up like you like what kind of life you live in what what who are you living with what's your folks do what what happens i had how'd you become this i become this because i had a rotten upbringing of course you know the abusive stepfather oh really he molested me when i was 10. is that true

00:32:46Guest:Of course it's true.

00:32:47Guest:Why do you keep asking me things are true?

00:32:49Guest:You think I'm making this shit up?

00:32:50Guest:No, of course not.

00:32:51Guest:I don't know why.

00:32:52Guest:You seem like such a solid dude.

00:32:54Guest:Well, that was a long time ago.

00:32:55Guest:One time it happened.

00:32:58Guest:Oh, yeah?

00:32:58Guest:He made me pull his thing when my mom was in hospital.

00:33:03Marc:Oh, Jesus.

00:33:04Guest:Attempting, I believe, to have a baby, but she had a miscarriage.

00:33:09Guest:And I think it was more of a power trip.

00:33:11Guest:He never liked me, this guy.

00:33:12Guest:Yeah.

00:33:12Guest:I didn't like him.

00:33:13Guest:Yeah.

00:33:14Guest:But what it did was it really changed everything because I didn't want to go home anymore.

00:33:21Guest:How old were you?

00:33:22Guest:About 10.

00:33:22Guest:Yeah.

00:33:23Guest:I didn't know how to deal with this.

00:33:25Guest:Yeah.

00:33:25Guest:I thought I'd done something wrong.

00:33:27Guest:And after that time, I just completely turned into a kleptomaniac, a peeping Tom.

00:33:36Guest:Just I couldn't sit still.

00:33:38Guest:Where did you leave the house?

00:33:40Guest:Did you move?

00:33:41Guest:I stayed there till I was about 14.

00:33:44Guest:And he was also physically abusive?

00:33:47Guest:I had one fight with him at the end.

00:33:49Guest:But he just used his size, which at the time, it was very intimidating.

00:33:57Guest:He was always intimidating me.

00:33:59Marc:did you tell your mom i told my mom in a letter a lot later but she i got the old denial letter back saying that didn't happen what you're talking about blah blah blah oh really yeah so that sent you spiraling into a life of uh petty crime yes um that seems to have become that became real crime

00:34:19Guest:yeah i mean it was all most of it was juvenile i had 13 arrests as a juvenile where was the real dad he was up he was in uh manch um nottingham after he left my mom when i don't remember what it's somewhere in between nowhere and one yeah he split he uh he moved to uh nottingham he got married had two boys and two girls

00:34:44Marc:So you got four half-brothers and sisters.

00:34:46Guest:Yeah.

00:34:46Marc:And what did he do?

00:34:49Marc:He just split.

00:34:50Marc:What was his job?

00:34:52Marc:Did you build a relationship with that guy?

00:34:54Guest:I met him in 2008.

00:34:56Guest:Oh, it took that long?

00:34:59Guest:It took that long.

00:35:00Guest:And I went up, I went over to England to do a tour.

00:35:03Guest:Yeah.

00:35:04Guest:Like 30 shows.

00:35:06Guest:Which band?

00:35:07Guest:Sex Pistols.

00:35:08Guest:Yeah.

00:35:08Guest:You know, reunion nonsense.

00:35:12Guest:And then in that time, my friend of mine helped me track him down anyway.

00:35:16Guest:I got on a train to Nottingham.

00:35:17Guest:I met him at the train station.

00:35:18Guest:Yeah.

00:35:19Guest:And we went into a cafe around the corner and bullshitted for a couple of hours.

00:35:23Guest:And that was the end of that.

00:35:24Guest:And then a couple of phone calls a couple of months later.

00:35:28Guest:And that was it.

00:35:28Guest:It was good to see him, though.

00:35:31Guest:Did you see the resemblance in everything?

00:35:32Guest:Yeah, and his voice is exactly the same.

00:35:35Guest:Really?

00:35:35Guest:And this is really weird.

00:35:37Guest:I don't know if there's a connection or it's just a coincidence.

00:35:40Guest:He was a lorry driver, a truck driver.

00:35:42Guest:Yeah.

00:35:43Guest:And I love to drive.

00:35:44Guest:I learned when I was like 13 years old.

00:35:46Marc:Got a nice truck out there.

00:35:47Guest:Yeah.

00:35:48Marc:Yeah.

00:35:49Marc:What is that thing?

00:35:50Guest:It's a Dodge Ram 1500.

00:35:54Guest:Big car.

00:35:55Guest:Big car.

00:35:56Guest:I almost smashed it.

00:35:58Guest:Coming here?

00:35:58Guest:In the rain.

00:36:00Guest:On my life, I had one of them moments, you know, where it all slows down.

00:36:04Guest:Sure.

00:36:04Guest:Yeah.

00:36:04Guest:It's going to happen.

00:36:05Guest:I'm just coming along the 118 because I came up to the 118 to the 210.

00:36:10Guest:I came around the top way.

00:36:12Guest:Yeah.

00:36:13Guest:And it was like a scene out of chips.

00:36:14Guest:You know, they always used to shoot chips up there, the original chips, where you see the extras cars going like 10 miles an hour.

00:36:24Guest:And all of a sudden, I just must have went over a bump, and I literally lost control.

00:36:29Guest:If there was no other cars around, I would have been history.

00:36:35Guest:It was the weirdest thing.

00:36:36Marc:Did you slide?

00:36:38Marc:Was it because of the rain?

00:36:39Guest:It didn't slide.

00:36:39Guest:It kind of went.

00:36:40Guest:What's that when it goes?

00:36:41Guest:Swivels.

00:36:42Guest:Swiveled.

00:36:42Guest:Yeah.

00:36:43Guest:I hit something.

00:36:44Guest:Yeah.

00:36:44Guest:A pot hole or something.

00:36:46Guest:Yeah.

00:36:46Guest:It was scary, man.

00:36:48Guest:It got my attention.

00:36:49Guest:Yeah.

00:36:50Guest:Got woke you up.

00:36:50Guest:Oh, man.

00:36:51Guest:Got that.

00:36:52Guest:Pulled you right into the present.

00:36:54Guest:It really did.

00:36:55Marc:Got you out of your head, Steve.

00:36:56Marc:It got me out of my head and it got me to slow down, too.

00:37:00Marc:So you met your old man and you didn't really contact him after that.

00:37:05Marc:What about the other brothers and sisters?

00:37:06Marc:Ever?

00:37:07Guest:No, never met them.

00:37:09Guest:Not compelled?

00:37:10Guest:I don't think he had any desire to open up that can of worms, which I understand.

00:37:15Guest:Yeah.

00:37:16Guest:I don't really want a relationship.

00:37:18Marc:Sure.

00:37:19Marc:They probably know who you are.

00:37:20Guest:Well, he's probably told him.

00:37:21Guest:I don't think he knew who I was originally, though.

00:37:24Guest:Really?

00:37:24Guest:When you first met him or early on?

00:37:27Guest:Early on.

00:37:27Guest:Yeah.

00:37:28Guest:Before, when he split, I don't think he knew anything about my coming up in the Sex Pistols or anything.

00:37:34Marc:So how does that happen?

00:37:35Marc:When do you start playing guitar?

00:37:38Guest:I started playing guitar about three months after I got kind of moved over to guitar.

00:37:44Guest:I was singing first.

00:37:46Guest:With another band?

00:37:48Guest:No, with the Sex Pistols.

00:37:50Guest:It was Cookie.

00:37:51Guest:Yeah.

00:37:52Guest:Glenn Matlop, who was the original.

00:37:53Guest:Bass player, yeah.

00:37:54Guest:Yeah, and then Wally Nightingale, who was the original guitar player.

00:37:59Guest:He was ugly.

00:38:00Guest:Yeah.

00:38:01Guest:I was the singer originally.

00:38:03Guest:We did one show.

00:38:04Guest:It was awful.

00:38:05Marc:You came up with the name?

00:38:07Guest:No, Malcolm McLaren did.

00:38:10Marc:See, I've got to figure out how that all comes together, because who did I talk to in here?

00:38:16Marc:Chrissy Hynde.

00:38:17Guest:Yeah.

00:38:18Marc:She was around.

00:38:19Guest:Yeah.

00:38:19Marc:Yeah.

00:38:20Marc:Totally around.

00:38:21Marc:And working for Malcolm?

00:38:23Guest:She was working in the shop, yeah, Let It Rock.

00:38:25Marc:And that was on Kings Road?

00:38:27Guest:Yeah.

00:38:28Yeah.

00:38:28Marc:now when did that like start to turn because you're growing up you're seeing bowie right and i think i talked to uh dolby right what's his you know that what's that guy's name thomas dolby thomas dolby yeah like because he was like running around at that time too like i've talked to a couple cats from your generation and i talked to older guys who were in britain like lemmy you know who they were going to see fleetwood mac and the beatles and you know that stuff

00:38:53Marc:But Chrissy Hines said that when Johnny Thunders and the Heartbreakers came to England, that changed the whole game.

00:39:01Marc:Is that possible?

00:39:02Guest:I don't know about change the whole game.

00:39:04Guest:Everyone started doing smack.

00:39:09Marc:Yeah, that's when that started.

00:39:11Marc:So it wasn't a music thing.

00:39:12Marc:It was like, ah, heroin is how you do that.

00:39:15Guest:No, I'm going to give funders credit, man.

00:39:16Guest:I was a massive New York Dolls fan.

00:39:20Guest:Right.

00:39:20Guest:You know, their first.

00:39:21Guest:Hell of a sound, that guitar, huh?

00:39:22Guest:It was just, yeah, it was good.

00:39:24Guest:It was chaotic.

00:39:25Guest:It was like real rock and roll.

00:39:27Guest:And that was one of the albums that helped me learn how to play guitar.

00:39:32Guest:Because when I got shoved on guitar, I didn't really know any guitar.

00:39:37Guest:So we got rid of Wally.

00:39:39Guest:I took Wally's place.

00:39:40Guest:We did an audition.

00:39:41Guest:We got John in the band.

00:39:43Guest:Then it was like time to stop messing around.

00:39:45Guest:And how I learned to play guitar was I would take these little black beauties.

00:39:52Guest:Yeah.

00:39:52Guest:And that would give me the focus because I had that thing, you know, the A, D, A, D. Couldn't focus five minutes.

00:39:59Guest:Sure.

00:39:59Guest:And a little speed doesn't hurt.

00:40:01Guest:A little speed zooms you right in there.

00:40:03Marc:Yeah.

00:40:04Guest:And that really helped me.

00:40:06Marc:And you locked in enough to figure out how to play those three chords or so.

00:40:09Guest:Yeah, it was all the same call.

00:40:11Guest:It was a matter of moving my arm up and down the fretboard.

00:40:14Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:40:15Guest:That was basically it.

00:40:16Marc:But what was it like the shop, the Malcolm McLaren shopping?

00:40:20Marc:It seems like there was an orchestration of a scene happening.

00:40:24Guest:Malcolm Sharp was like the Haight Asprey of punk.

00:40:27Guest:Right.

00:40:28Guest:It was like the place where everything, all the glue, everything stuck together from revolved around that shop.

00:40:35Marc:And what were you fighting against?

00:40:37Marc:What was being pushed out?

00:40:38Marc:What music was sort of like, well, fuck this?

00:40:42Marc:The changing of the guard.

00:40:44Guest:Yeah, I don't think I was one of them people who said, fuck this.

00:40:49Guest:Yeah.

00:40:49Guest:I just wanted to get laid and be in a rock and roll band.

00:40:52Guest:Right.

00:40:52Guest:That was someone else who was saying all that.

00:40:54Marc:But do you remember what music was popular at the time that people were reacting against?

00:41:00Marc:I mean, what wave was crashing?

00:41:02Guest:Well, it was the pomp of the band Yes.

00:41:05Guest:Oh, right, the prog.

00:41:06Guest:Jeff Rotol.

00:41:08Guest:Yeah.

00:41:08Guest:Zeppelin, if you will.

00:41:09Guest:Yeah.

00:41:11Guest:unapproachable bands right prog rock dominance yeah uh steve hillage uh right i'm getting deep now no no it's good steve hillage uh tangerine dream yeah but looking back on it now i look at them bands and i think they're kind of punk too a little bit they're not looking for any single they don't give a shit about anybody else they're kind of just doing their thing yeah they'll play a whole song one side two songs yeah they must have been doing speed too they would something

00:41:41Marc:So that was it.

00:41:42Marc:There were these almost mythic bands around that played with mythological and renaissance characters and little universes to create this sound.

00:41:55Marc:And you guys brought it back down to the people.

00:41:57Guest:We brought it back down.

00:41:59Guest:I think a lot of it was because technical ability.

00:42:03Guest:you know and a bit of anger in there right you know you're young but i don't think we set out to get rid of all these old fart bands we just was we was just the next wave and we just come along and came along at the right time right so and john wrote fantastic lyrics yeah you know yeah and the music was was cool now with with malcolm so he would just create an environment where everyone hung around

00:42:29Marc:He had his shop.

00:42:30Guest:It was him and Vivian Westwood.

00:42:31Guest:And it was clothing mostly.

00:42:33Guest:It was a clothing shop, but they had a jukebox in there.

00:42:36Guest:They had a couch.

00:42:37Guest:Yeah.

00:42:38Guest:You could hang in there.

00:42:39Guest:Yeah.

00:42:39Guest:You know, and he was drawn to me.

00:42:41Guest:I went in there way before the pistols started, and I became friends with him.

00:42:47Guest:And he used to show me all these...

00:42:50Guest:I hung around with him.

00:42:51Guest:I would drive him up the west end of London.

00:42:54Guest:Yeah.

00:42:54Guest:Because he couldn't drive.

00:42:55Guest:I would drive Viv's minivan, mini, and buy material for him to make stuff up.

00:43:02Guest:So they were making all the plaid skirts and the belts and the safety pins?

00:43:06Guest:No, at this point.

00:43:06Guest:No.

00:43:06Guest:they were just doing um um teddy boy stuff okay which in england is a little different it was the same kind of music you know yeah gerry lewis right but the look was a bit different they had this thing all these guys called teddy boys it was called like the edwardian looking thing where they'd have the big drape coats yeah drain pipes yeah winkle picker shoes right similar yeah a little bit different than the states yeah there's a pretty aggressive rockabilly thing going on too right oh yeah yeah

00:43:34Marc:That stuff is, that plays a lot into punk, I think.

00:43:37Guest:Well, the second wave, like when we came up, they didn't like us, the punks.

00:43:41Guest:They thought we were taking the piss out of them, the Teddy Boys.

00:43:45Marc:Oh, the Teddy Boys didn't like you?

00:43:46Marc:No.

00:43:46Marc:There was a schism, a divide.

00:43:50Marc:Yeah.

00:43:51Marc:So McLaren takes a liking for you, driving Vivian's van around.

00:43:55Guest:Driving a mini around.

00:43:57Guest:In return, he took me out at night and showed me the nightlife that I was never hip to.

00:44:04Guest:I was like a young guy who used to go to football matches.

00:44:08Guest:And steal things.

00:44:09Guest:Yeah, that was my thing.

00:44:11Guest:And he showed me a whole other side.

00:44:13Guest:He would take me to this club called the Speakeasy.

00:44:16Guest:He knew all the rock and rollers.

00:44:19Guest:So you're like this feral...

00:44:20Marc:Working class kid.

00:44:22Marc:Yeah.

00:44:23Marc:That he's like, I'm going to show this guy.

00:44:25Guest:I guess so, because he's a bit off too.

00:44:29Guest:Yeah.

00:44:30Guest:Malcolm, you know, he likes the underworld characters.

00:44:33Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:44:33Guest:He's not into the straight people.

00:44:35Marc:Were the Kray brothers around then?

00:44:37Guest:Yeah, in the 60s, early 60s.

00:44:40Guest:I think some of it was still going on, but it wasn't big at that point.

00:44:43Marc:It wasn't dominating the tabloids at that point.

00:44:47Marc:So you're going around, you're seeing who?

00:44:49Marc:What are you doing?

00:44:50Marc:What are you learning?

00:44:51Guest:I'm just learning another side of life, the avant-garde side of life that I was really drawn to.

00:44:57Guest:The art side of life in some way.

00:44:59Guest:Yeah, just people who...

00:45:02Guest:You know, just different, like the studio, like the Andy Warhol side.

00:45:07Guest:Right.

00:45:08Guest:The English version of that.

00:45:10Guest:There was a few shops.

00:45:11Guest:There was another one called Granny Takes a Trip.

00:45:13Guest:Yeah.

00:45:14Guest:That they sold a lot of them velvet suits with the rhinestones.

00:45:17Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:45:18Guest:Cool stuff that I went in there a bunch of times.

00:45:21Guest:Did you buy stuff?

00:45:23Guest:I didn't buy anything.

00:45:25Guest:And they were all in the back shooting dope.

00:45:27Guest:So you could literally walk in there and walk out.

00:45:30Guest:I'm like, where are these guys?

00:45:32Guest:There's never anyone in there.

00:45:33Guest:I didn't know what dope was at the time.

00:45:35Guest:Yeah.

00:45:36Guest:But I didn't.

00:45:36Guest:I just, you know, helped myself.

00:45:38Marc:It was great.

00:45:38Marc:What were you doing?

00:45:39Marc:Just drinking and taking speed?

00:45:41Guest:Yeah.

00:45:42Marc:So you start learning to play guitar because you got rid of the guitar player.

00:45:45Marc:Yeah.

00:45:47Marc:And Malcolm is producing you at that point to begin with?

00:45:50Marc:No.

00:45:50Marc:Did he talk you into the band?

00:45:52Marc:No.

00:45:52Marc:Well, you had the band.

00:45:53Marc:We had the band.

00:45:54Marc:Yeah.

00:45:54Guest:Because Glenn Matlock worked in the shop on the Saturdays.

00:45:58Guest:And he knew how to play bass.

00:46:00Guest:He knew how to play bass.

00:46:01Guest:So there's another connection.

00:46:03Guest:Yeah.

00:46:03Guest:Because he worked in Malcolm's shop.

00:46:05Guest:Okay.

00:46:05Guest:And he was a bass player.

00:46:06Guest:Yeah.

00:46:06Guest:And he was a fan of the faces.

00:46:08Guest:Yeah.

00:46:08Guest:It made it perfect sense to start a band with me, Cookie, and him, and this guy, Wally.

00:46:13Marc:Well, how does Paul play into all that?

00:46:17Guest:Well, he was my, you know.

00:46:18Guest:You guys just hung out together?

00:46:20Guest:We hung out.

00:46:21Guest:I stole him a drum kit.

00:46:23Guest:From who?

00:46:23Guest:Which band?

00:46:24Guest:I don't fucking know.

00:46:25Guest:There were so many.

00:46:28Guest:Set it up in his mom's bedroom.

00:46:30Guest:Yeah.

00:46:30Guest:And he learned how to play a little bit in there.

00:46:32Marc:yeah no training just listening to records just crash bang wallop yeah yeah and all right so does so you decided to start the band yeah and malcolm is what what is his role initially he just come to he just came to rehearsals here and there he weren't really into it he obviously saw did it add a long way to go

00:46:53Guest:He had nothing to do with the music, by the way.

00:46:56Guest:I just want to get that clear from the beginning to the end.

00:46:59Guest:He had no input as far as songs.

00:47:03Guest:He was more the fashion side, you know, and other little stunts.

00:47:10Guest:But he did say, he said, you know, you've got to get rid of that guy, Wally.

00:47:14Guest:It's not happening.

00:47:14Guest:And after we did the one show, I realized that I didn't want to be the singer.

00:47:18Guest:Yeah.

00:47:19Guest:I don't like it when everyone stares at me.

00:47:21Guest:Yeah.

00:47:22Guest:I'd rather be...

00:47:23Guest:Kind of people looking at you, but you're not the main focus.

00:47:26Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:47:27Guest:So it kind of worked out as it was meant to be, you know?

00:47:31Marc:Yeah.

00:47:32Marc:How did he take it?

00:47:33Guest:Wally?

00:47:34Guest:Yeah.

00:47:34Guest:He wasn't happy.

00:47:35Guest:No.

00:47:37Guest:And his dad had this rehearsal place where we used to rehearse for months for free.

00:47:41Guest:Yeah.

00:47:42Guest:This BBC studio.

00:47:44Guest:His dad had the contract to do the electrician work there.

00:47:50Guest:Yeah.

00:47:51Guest:Yeah.

00:47:51Guest:And it never got done.

00:47:52Guest:And it was right down by Hammersmith Bridge by the river.

00:47:55Guest:So we could rehearse in there all day long, all night, in this beautiful soundtrack, soundproof, beautiful BBC place.

00:48:04Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:48:05Guest:And you lost that when you got with a Wally.

00:48:06Guest:Exactly.

00:48:07Guest:And then where'd you go?

00:48:09Guest:It was not good for a little while.

00:48:11Guest:We had to rent a van, go to some horrible, damn rehearsal place, set up.

00:48:18Guest:Fuck about for a couple of hours, take it all down in the van, take it back, take the rental van back.

00:48:24Guest:It was a nightmare.

00:48:26Guest:And Malcolm, he saw an ad at the rehearsal storage place, Denmark Street, Tin Pan Alley.

00:48:36Guest:and it was uh belonged to uh the tour manager of the bad thing the band bad finger oh yeah sure and we got it and it was right this was right central london timpan alley yeah and it had an upstairs like with a little sink an outside toilet and we could rehearse downstairs so we lucked out so well where was bad finger

00:48:57Guest:They were done.

00:48:59Guest:Two of them committed suicide.

00:49:00Guest:It didn't end well, yeah.

00:49:02Guest:It was done.

00:49:03Guest:And I lived upstairs.

00:49:04Guest:This is the first time I've had my own place.

00:49:06Marc:Upstairs in the same building as the rehearsal space?

00:49:09Guest:Yeah.

00:49:10Marc:Oh, great.

00:49:10Guest:Right in the center of London.

00:49:11Guest:Yeah.

00:49:12Guest:It was a dream come true.

00:49:15Guest:Who'd you live with?

00:49:16Guest:Just you?

00:49:16Guest:Just me.

00:49:17Guest:Ah.

00:49:18Guest:And whatever chick would stay over.

00:49:19Guest:Yeah.

00:49:20Guest:Or not even stay over.

00:49:21Guest:I prefer them to split.

00:49:22Guest:Yeah.

00:49:23Marc:So when does Lydon come in?

00:49:26Marc:He's in at this point.

00:49:28Marc:Yeah.

00:49:28Marc:How does that happen?

00:49:30Guest:How do you meet him?

00:49:31Guest:It happened.

00:49:33Guest:We put an ad in the paper.

00:49:36Guest:He meets us down at Malcolm's shop one night.

00:49:40Guest:Again, he'd been in there too, randomly.

00:49:44Guest:yeah and uh he shows up uh he's a bit nervous we're nervous uh we go around the corner to this pub on king's road called the roebuck we have a few pints we're getting a bit loose and we say well come on then let's go back to the shop and sing along with the jukebox

00:50:03Guest:and he does that and we uh pressed a number and 18 by alice cooper come up yeah and we said go on sing along to that i mean it's really it's a bit hard and he didn't he just fucked about john he didn't take it seriously and i got annoyed with him yeah because he wasn't trying right but in hindsight he did exactly the right thing just doing that johnny rotten thing that 18

00:50:28Guest:He was just goofing around, man.

00:50:31Guest:And I didn't like him for that because I thought he wasn't serious.

00:50:34Guest:And then I noticed his teeth were all green.

00:50:37Guest:I said, your fucking teeth are rotten, mate.

00:50:40Guest:And that stuck, the name thing, stuck all that night.

00:50:44Guest:And that's when we started rehearsing.

00:50:47Guest:That was prior to Denmark Street, Tim Panelli.

00:50:50Guest:That was a couple of months before that.

00:50:53Marc:So by the time you got over there, you guys, you're at it.

00:50:56Guest:we're at it with matlock we're at it all the magic was written in that little place where i ended up living so what when does when does malcolm start suiting you up the clothes yeah well from the back yeah um you know john kind of had that look prior to malcolm yeah i think everyone was inspired by it and that's when that's when that's when let it rock stopped

00:51:23Guest:And it became sex.

00:51:25Guest:Right.

00:51:25Guest:That was the name of the shop in big pink letters.

00:51:28Guest:And did he change the inventory?

00:51:30Guest:Did the... Inventory totally changed.

00:51:33Guest:To what was it then?

00:51:34Guest:Bondage tops, bondage pants.

00:51:36Guest:Right, the collars and shit.

00:51:37Guest:A lot of fascist stuff, a lot of Karl Marx stuff, shirts with Karl Marx on it.

00:51:45Guest:Yeah.

00:51:45Guest:Just shock value.

00:51:47Guest:Yeah.

00:51:47Guest:You know.

00:51:48Guest:It worked out.

00:51:48Guest:Swastikers.

00:51:49Guest:Sure.

00:51:50Guest:All that stuff.

00:51:51Guest:Yeah.

00:51:51Guest:Was there a skinhead movement yet?

00:51:54Guest:The skinhead movement, which I was, was in the middle 60s.

00:51:58Guest:The original skinheads.

00:51:59Guest:Yeah.

00:52:00Guest:When I was like 10 or 11.

00:52:02Guest:Oh, yeah?

00:52:04Guest:That was the original skinheads.

00:52:06Guest:You had the mods.

00:52:07Yeah.

00:52:07Guest:And the mods, which was the who and all that, small faces, kinks, that ended and that's when the skinhead started.

00:52:15Guest:That lasted a few years, fizzled out.

00:52:19Guest:But then after the Sex Pistols started, this next wave, oi, these oi bands came around just after the Pistols.

00:52:27Guest:That's when it got all weird and national front and... Violent.

00:52:33Guest:You know, kind of racist, if you will, you know.

00:52:37Guest:The original skinheads weren't?

00:52:38Guest:I had a lot of black friends who I went to school with.

00:52:41Guest:We were all skinheads.

00:52:41Guest:All we used to do was go to youth clubs and go to football matches.

00:52:45Marc:There was no music involved?

00:52:46Guest:Yeah.

00:52:47Marc:Yeah?

00:52:47Guest:What was the music?

00:52:48Guest:Blue Beat.

00:52:49Guest:Yeah.

00:52:49Guest:Tamela Motown.

00:52:51Guest:Soul.

00:52:52Guest:Right.

00:52:52Guest:That was the music.

00:52:53Marc:Some of the ska stuff.

00:52:54Guest:Yeah, not so much Scar, but I guess early Scar, the original Prince Buster and all that stuff.

00:52:59Marc:That came in later too, after the pistols, right?

00:53:02Marc:Yeah.

00:53:02Marc:The whole Scar resurrection.

00:53:03Guest:Specials.

00:53:04Marc:Right.

00:53:04Marc:That was when I was... I think that was happening in 1980, 1981, right?

00:53:07Marc:Yeah.

00:53:08Marc:Madness.

00:53:09Marc:Yeah.

00:53:11Marc:One step beyond.

00:53:12Marc:All right.

00:53:12Marc:So now you've got an outfit.

00:53:15Marc:You've got a band that's functioning.

00:53:16Marc:You guys are playing out now?

00:53:18Yeah.

00:53:18Guest:After about three months of me playing guitar and rehearsing, we did our first show around the corner at St.

00:53:25Guest:Martin's Art College.

00:53:27Guest:It was literally around the corner.

00:53:28Guest:We walked around there and walked our gear around there.

00:53:32Guest:Glenn Matlock went to that school.

00:53:34Guest:Yeah.

00:53:34Guest:He got the gig.

00:53:35Guest:Yeah.

00:53:36Guest:We opened up for a band called Bazooka Joe.

00:53:39Guest:It was no stage.

00:53:41Guest:It was just a room, a small room.

00:53:43Guest:The bass player, funny enough, was Adam Ant in Bazooka Joe.

00:53:49Guest:Oh, really?

00:53:50Guest:We went on.

00:53:50Guest:I was terrified, like I always was, when it came time to be in front of people and

00:53:54Guest:So I took a couple of Mandrax.

00:53:57Guest:Yeah.

00:53:58Guest:American.

00:53:59Guest:Quaalude.

00:54:00Guest:Yeah.

00:54:01Guest:And best drug ever.

00:54:03Guest:That's what I hear.

00:54:04Guest:Oh, tingly feelings.

00:54:05Guest:We have a couple of pints and we got on stage.

00:54:07Guest:We started doing Did You Know Wrong?

00:54:10Guest:And I look over at Rotten.

00:54:11Guest:I'm like, this is the best fucking thing ever.

00:54:14Guest:Yeah.

00:54:14Guest:You're just at that moment.

00:54:16Guest:Yeah.

00:54:16Guest:Where it all seemed to gel.

00:54:18Guest:Yeah.

00:54:19Guest:And it's like Coke.

00:54:19Guest:You search for that moment forever after.

00:54:21Guest:It never is.

00:54:22Guest:That first one.

00:54:23Guest:Yeah.

00:54:24Guest:Yeah.

00:54:24Guest:So that was it.

00:54:25Guest:And the plug got pulled after about three songs.

00:54:28Guest:Really?

00:54:29Guest:Because we were very loud.

00:54:30Guest:Yeah.

00:54:31Guest:We just didn't know.

00:54:32Guest:Yeah.

00:54:33Guest:We just didn't know what we were doing.

00:54:34Guest:What was the song list?

00:54:36Guest:A few covers.

00:54:41Guest:No Lip.

00:54:43Guest:Don't Give Me No Lip.

00:54:44Guest:It's a Dave Barry song.

00:54:45Guest:Yeah.

00:54:46Guest:I think we did a Small Faces song.

00:54:49Guest:Did You Know Wrong was an original.

00:54:51Guest:Yeah.

00:54:53Guest:I don't...

00:54:54Guest:think there was a lot of originals at that stage of the game yeah yeah you know right we used to do a lot of covers did you do roadrunner then no that came a little bit later it's a good song you know what that album is fantastic which one the modern lovers album yeah it's great i didn't realize that came out way before yeah anything came out

00:55:14Marc:It was, what was it, 1972?

00:55:15Marc:72, yeah.

00:55:16Marc:Oh, it's great.

00:55:18Marc:I love Old World and Astroplane.

00:55:20Marc:Yeah.

00:55:21Marc:And, oh, yeah, She Cracked.

00:55:23Marc:Yeah.

00:55:24Marc:She's Cracked is fantastic.

00:55:26Marc:It's great.

00:55:26Marc:Yeah, he was a special guy, that guy.

00:55:28Marc:Pablo Picasso.

00:55:30Marc:Was never called an asshole.

00:55:31Guest:Yeah.

00:55:31Guest:Not in New York.

00:55:32Guest:Yeah.

00:55:34Guest:That was a great album.

00:55:36Guest:I'm glad we did a version of that.

00:55:37Guest:We used to play it when we played live.

00:55:40Guest:We always do that song.

00:55:41Guest:Roadrunner?

00:55:42Guest:Yeah.

00:55:43Marc:All right, so you had that magic moment, and then you get unplugged, and then how does it become a phenomenon?

00:55:51Marc:What happens?

00:55:52Marc:How does Matlock go away and Sid come in?

00:55:55Marc:Well, that was a while after that.

00:55:58Guest:So you guys played a lot around town?

00:56:00Guest:We played a lot up north of England.

00:56:04Guest:So various places, strip clubs, avant-garde kind of art parties.

00:56:11Guest:Is the metal thing happening now too?

00:56:13Guest:Is Lemmy doing that yet?

00:56:14Guest:I'm not sure.

00:56:16Guest:It could have been still Hawkwind at this point.

00:56:19Guest:Okay, yeah.

00:56:19Guest:I'm not sure of the dates.

00:56:21Guest:I mean, I knew Lemmy.

00:56:22Guest:Yeah.

00:56:22Guest:I used to buy speed off him down Portobello Road.

00:56:24Guest:Sounds like he was the guy with the speed.

00:56:26Guest:He was the man to go to.

00:56:27Guest:Yeah.

00:56:28Guest:He was the man to go to.

00:56:30Guest:I love Lemmy, man.

00:56:31Guest:Yeah.

00:56:31Guest:I love him.

00:56:32Marc:I think we did one of his last interviews in here.

00:56:33Marc:Yeah?

00:56:34Marc:Yeah.

00:56:35Marc:He didn't look well, but it was sweet.

00:56:36Marc:It was good.

00:56:37Marc:I'm glad I got to talk to him.

00:56:39Guest:Yeah.

00:56:40Guest:We played his 70th birthday party at the whiskey.

00:56:45Guest:Yeah.

00:56:46Guest:And I saw him, and God, he really looked like death warmed up.

00:56:49Guest:Yeah, with the cane?

00:56:50Guest:The face.

00:56:51Guest:I mean, such a shame.

00:56:54Guest:It could have been avoided.

00:56:55Guest:Yeah.

00:56:56Guest:yes it would have taken a little work you know he he changed jack daniels to beer to vodka and orange juice because orange juice is healthy yeah you know that's that's that's his thinking all right so you're playing around you're doing all the places you're getting your chops in order and then how does it evolve

00:57:15Guest:um is chrissy hind around she's around she's hanging out right she's hanging out i was hanging out yeah hanging out the back of her yeah yeah she seemed like uh when i talked to her it was very intimidating she's great chrissy she's a true she's a true rock and roller yeah she really is her story's pretty amazing

00:57:36Guest:paid her dues i love her man and then she used she used to come over denmark street and stay over at night yeah we used to have a little thing going yeah and i was always like ah oh she goes i want to be in a band i'm like ah shut up to be in a band get get down here but she she proved everybody wrong fair play to her are you friends with her still yeah she she did the forward for my book

00:57:58Marc:Oh, good, good.

00:57:59Marc:Oh, good.

00:58:00Marc:All right, so you're playing around.

00:58:02Marc:We're playing around.

00:58:03Marc:I'm just trying to figure out when you take over the world for the year or two that you did.

00:58:07Guest:We play around.

00:58:08Guest:We started getting popular a little bit on the music front.

00:58:12Guest:We're playing up and down England.

00:58:14Marc:And you're doing avant-garde places, like art rock places?

00:58:16Guest:Only a few in London.

00:58:19Guest:Most of the shows we did up north were pretty brutal, men's work in men's clubs.

00:58:25Guest:Tashes, flares, big fuzzy air, throwing shit at us.

00:58:32Guest:But in there, there'd always be a couple of kids who would be gravitated to it.

00:58:37Guest:Lock in.

00:58:38Guest:And the next day, they'd cut their hair, put plastic bags on themselves.

00:58:42Guest:And that kind of went along.

00:58:45Guest:We got a record deal with EMI.

00:58:50Guest:Sure.

00:58:50Guest:We cut Anarchy when we were with EMI.

00:58:54Guest:We start rehearsing to do a tour.

00:58:58Guest:We were the headlines, Clash, The Damned, and Johnny Thunders and the Heartbreakers.

00:59:04Guest:We're rehearsing at this place in Kilburn.

00:59:06Guest:A limousine pulls up.

00:59:08Guest:You're going down to the Today Show.

00:59:11Guest:Queen can't make it.

00:59:12Guest:We were label mates.

00:59:14Guest:All right.

00:59:14Guest:So we all get in the limo.

00:59:16Guest:We go down to the... There's two channels on TV at this point.

00:59:20Guest:Yeah.

00:59:20Guest:Thames Television and BBC.

00:59:23Guest:I believe so.

00:59:24Guest:This is a big show.

00:59:25Guest:It's six o'clock.

00:59:26Guest:Everyone watches it.

00:59:27Guest:They're eating their bangers of mash and drinking tea.

00:59:30Guest:Everyone watches this.

00:59:31Guest:Everyone.

00:59:32Guest:We go in there, we get put in a green room.

00:59:35Guest:I start down in a couple of bottles of Blue Nun because I'm getting nervous again because I'm not going to be on TV.

00:59:41Guest:Shitty white wine.

00:59:42Guest:The worst, but it tasted good.

00:59:44Guest:Yeah.

00:59:44Guest:It was sweet.

00:59:47Guest:We seemed like we were in the green room forever.

00:59:50Guest:Okay, time to go.

00:59:51Guest:We go marching out.

00:59:53Guest:Susie in the band Susie's with us she's a fan that Bromley contingent yeah they're standing with a few other fans behind the band we're sitting down he starts asking the questions he's got no interest in in us at all yeah he immediately don't like us he wanted Queen to be there he did yeah and uh

01:00:13Guest:he probably didn't even want queen there he was such an old fart you know one of them old farts yeah and he immediately uh took a disliking to us and so he's trying to provoke us he was asking what did we do with the money blah blah blah blah blah and finally uh started swearing and and he was he said something to susie she said i've always wanted to meet you bill grandy

01:00:37Guest:She goes, oh, okay, then we'll meet after the show then, yes?

01:00:40Guest:Being like all them blokes were.

01:00:42Guest:Yeah.

01:00:42Guest:We're probably fucking at all kind of young birds.

01:00:45Guest:Yeah.

01:00:45Guest:You know, and I let him have it.

01:00:47Guest:I call him a dirty fucker, a dirty bastard.

01:00:50Guest:He goes, carry on, carry on.

01:00:51Guest:I said, what the fuck?

01:00:52Guest:And no one, as far as I know, had any idea this shit was going out live.

01:00:59Guest:But it did.

01:01:01Guest:Yeah.

01:01:01Guest:And that's when it all changed.

01:01:02Guest:That next day, it went from getting a few fans, being in the NME, the Melody Maker, music magazines, to front page, every front page, till the day we kind of broke up.

01:01:16Guest:But that was the end of it, too.

01:01:18Guest:That kind of was the beginning of the end.

01:01:21Guest:So it goes out.

01:01:22Guest:Can you see this on YouTube?

01:01:24Guest:I imagine you can.

01:01:24Guest:Yeah.

01:01:25Guest:It looks pretty tame now, but at the time it was a big deal.

01:01:30Guest:No one ever swore on TV.

01:01:31Guest:Sure.

01:01:31Guest:So now you've launched.

01:01:34Guest:We're there.

01:01:36Guest:We've hit the big time.

01:01:37Guest:And punk rock becomes a thing.

01:01:39Guest:Becomes the thing.

01:01:41Guest:It's all go.

01:01:43Guest:Yeah.

01:01:44Guest:so did you do the show with the heartbreakers and everybody we did but a lot of the shows got cancelled because of that because the publicity you know we were these we were these devils yeah a lot of these places where we were going to play people will protest oh really council would come out in drives we're not having them playing in our city so out of the out of about the 12 i don't even remember how many shows there was originally we did about three

01:02:08Guest:Yeah.

01:02:09Guest:And were you doing dope yet?

01:02:12Guest:No, I experimented once, but I wasn't into it at this point.

01:02:15Guest:Yeah.

01:02:16Guest:But I was around the Heartbreakers guys, and man, they made up for me not doing it, I'll tell you that.

01:02:21Guest:All right, so how does it change?

01:02:23Marc:So all those shows get canceled, now you're at war with city councils, with the proper people of Britain.

01:02:30Marc:There's a war going on between punk rock and the normal people.

01:02:38Guest:yeah and and what's malcolm doing now well malcolm shit himself the night of the bill grundy show yeah shit himself until he saw the papers the next day then he's like what look let me show you what i invented you know he took try to take credit for it all for everything for that yeah yeah for everything oh he always does you know he always does he's still alive

01:03:01Guest:no he died recently a few years back but um you know i always have a soft spot for malcolm even though he didn't really take care of business as far as any money that we made but i still i still i still like him but uh and he was a big part of the sex pistols regardless what anyone says yeah but he wasn't everything we wasn't a boy band with him pulling the strings by any means

01:03:25Marc:No, it doesn't sound like it.

01:03:26Marc:It sounds like you guys were kicking at it and doing the work.

01:03:29Guest:Yeah.

01:03:29Marc:And going out.

01:03:30Marc:So how do you sustain yourself if you're getting all this resistance?

01:03:35Marc:How do you get gigs?

01:03:36Marc:How does it start to happen?

01:03:37Guest:Well, a part of that whole thing of being banned everywhere was all part of the mystique.

01:03:43Guest:And you couldn't buy that bloody publicity we were getting.

01:03:46Guest:Yeah.

01:03:47Guest:But for me...

01:03:48Guest:I just want the most best time for me.

01:03:51Guest:Yeah.

01:03:52Guest:In the Sex Pistols realm was doing Never Mind the Bollocks.

01:03:56Guest:Yeah.

01:03:56Guest:Was recording Never Mind the Bollocks.

01:03:58Guest:That was the happiest for me.

01:04:00Guest:It wasn't the shows or the rest of it.

01:04:03Guest:so that that was what i was really into and then after the grundy thing after glenn gets the boot after sid gets in the band who couldn't play everything's kind of shifting but when did you when did you record that was who played on that i played all the bass you played all the bass your guitar sounds great on that record it's weird you go you know you listen to you know i got you're a les paul guy right

01:04:24Marc:yeah yeah it's a it's a great sound and you know when you go back i remember when it came out because it was 70 what was it 5 75 76 77 was it 77 i think the album came out because i remember when it came to the states because i was like 13 14 years old and it wasn't my bag but i bought it immediately and i had it and i you know i listened to it and i couldn't wrap my brain around it when i was at that age but later i played and i'm like you know this isn't crazy this is just rock and roll music just rock and roll yeah

01:04:52Marc:because you know when he when the whole press of the pistols and you know the way he sings in particular but the root of it it's just fucking rock yeah it's not like crazy no so you go in there and you record that and you do the bass because matlock's out matlock's already gone matlock played on anarchy yeah because we he was still in the band when we did the single yeah but after we did that single and he got the boot

01:05:16Guest:Why'd he get the boot?

01:05:18Guest:Circumstances.

01:05:19Guest:He didn't look the part.

01:05:21Guest:He was a bit clean.

01:05:22Guest:Yeah.

01:05:23Guest:His mum didn't like the song Anarchy in the UK.

01:05:26Guest:It was a combination of things.

01:05:28Guest:He's still around though, right?

01:05:29Guest:He's still around.

01:05:29Guest:Friends?

01:05:31Guest:Yeah.

01:05:32Guest:You know.

01:05:32Guest:Yeah.

01:05:33Guest:He's suing us right now.

01:05:35Guest:Really?

01:05:36Guest:I think so.

01:05:37Guest:For what?

01:05:38Guest:You know, once more.

01:05:40Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:05:41Guest:From that record.

01:05:42Guest:Some people, though, no matter what you give them, they'll always want more.

01:05:46Guest:Man, but how much is there at this point?

01:05:47Guest:Nothing.

01:05:49Guest:We did one bleeding album.

01:05:50Guest:There's nothing.

01:05:52Guest:it's weird how that happens later it's like you know like people are like they get a grudge turns into like well i got nothing yeah i want some of that back yeah so okay so recording was fun i love the recording process we got a good producer chris thomas and bill price the engineer chris thomas did a lot of records i wanted him in the band because he did early roxy music records

01:06:16Guest:and uh he was like a proper producer yeah a lot of punk bands back in the day would get all kinds of clowns to produce them right like we did originally we had our sound guy for live shows started out with him yeah and he just he lost it he just smoked so much weed and all of a sudden he's he he lost it some people ain't meant for success yeah and his ego went out of control

01:06:40Guest:so we attempted doing anarchy with him originally and he just he made us play the backing track like 100 times and it was never enough it was never right it was perfect the second time and he kept going he's just out of his mind you're gone yeah we're running now a proper studio second cut okay that's done come in here let's do some overdubs john let's do some vocals let's do some bits and bobs it was it was done in like you know a few days fantastic

01:07:09Guest:Anarchy.

01:07:09Guest:Yeah.

01:07:10Guest:Yeah.

01:07:10Guest:Then Matlock goes.

01:07:13Guest:Sid joins the band.

01:07:14Guest:Sid's in hospital when we're doing a record.

01:07:17Guest:A godsend.

01:07:18Guest:Because he wanted to play on it.

01:07:20Guest:Why was he in the hospital?

01:07:21Guest:He had like jaundice or something.

01:07:23Guest:How'd you meet that guy?

01:07:24Guest:He was friends with John.

01:07:25Guest:Yeah.

01:07:26Guest:Another one who used to go in the shop.

01:07:28Guest:Yeah.

01:07:28Guest:He was around.

01:07:30Guest:He used to come to the early shows.

01:07:31Guest:Yeah.

01:07:32Guest:What kind of guy was he?

01:07:36Yeah.

01:07:36Guest:I like Sid.

01:07:37Guest:Yeah.

01:07:37Guest:I thought he was a good lad.

01:07:39Guest:Yeah.

01:07:41Guest:He was a classic juvenile delinquent.

01:07:45Guest:Yeah.

01:07:46Guest:You know.

01:07:46Guest:Yeah.

01:07:47Guest:But not crazy.

01:07:49Guest:You know, he was going to all the Bowie stuff.

01:07:51Guest:He had his hair like Bowie.

01:07:52Guest:Yeah.

01:07:53Guest:When he was 14, 15.

01:07:54Guest:He was younger.

01:07:55Guest:He was 19.

01:07:56Guest:And when I was like 22, he was 19.

01:07:59Guest:So he's younger.

01:08:00Guest:But he didn't play any of an instrument.

01:08:02Guest:No.

01:08:03Guest:got slung in the deep and I had to kind of tell him where to put his fingers which is the last thing I want to be doing and the reason you took him on was because he looked good he looked good and I think John liked him because he was his buddy yeah then all of a sudden John's got a buddy

01:08:19Guest:Because it was always me and Cookie.

01:08:20Guest:Yeah.

01:08:21Guest:And we'd always fuck off after we rehearsed or did shows.

01:08:23Guest:Right.

01:08:24Guest:And I think John resented that.

01:08:26Guest:He didn't have his buddy.

01:08:27Guest:Yeah.

01:08:27Guest:You know?

01:08:28Guest:Yeah.

01:08:28Guest:He didn't want to hang out with Matlock.

01:08:30Guest:So that kind of was good.

01:08:32Guest:And they both looked fantastic on stage.

01:08:34Guest:Yeah.

01:08:34Guest:They really did.

01:08:35Guest:Yeah.

01:08:35Guest:They looked the part.

01:08:36Guest:I got pushed back.

01:08:37Guest:You know, I got put in the shadows, which I kind of got a resentment against.

01:08:41Guest:Yeah.

01:08:42Guest:You know.

01:08:43Marc:But...

01:08:44Marc:So after the record's out, where do you tour?

01:08:46Marc:When do you come to the States for the first time?

01:08:48Guest:Not long after that.

01:08:49Guest:I think we did a couple of shows with Sid.

01:08:53Guest:I don't know, 10, something.

01:08:55Marc:Just 10 shows with Sid after the record's out?

01:08:57Marc:I believe so, not much.

01:08:58Marc:And how's performing live?

01:09:00Marc:Are you guys tight?

01:09:01Guest:No.

01:09:02Guest:He can't fucking play.

01:09:04Guest:you know he was in his respect he was trying to play he had his bass up here yeah like where your normal normal bass something where if you're gonna play bass yeah have it up a bit higher if you're learning yeah and he attempted it um he attempted it and it lasted a little bit but when we came to the sates it just all fell apart he had the bass down low thought it was a guitar he would he would like strum it thinking it

01:09:32Guest:no the bass has to keep pumping yeah to make it work yeah so it was just this was another element in my head that i went in my head like this is getting worse and worse and worse and worse when you get to the states yeah when's everybody start getting doped up well sid's already doing that yeah with that bird nancy yeah he was the only he was the only one doing smack in england

01:09:55Guest:yeah okay he he showed up one one uh at one show at a sound check with her and we're like who's this who's this bird yeah yeah she was in britain she was there yeah oh yeah hanging out over yeah she was looking for a rock star yeah trouble

01:10:11Marc:Yeah.

01:10:12Marc:Yeah.

01:10:13Marc:So she got him.

01:10:15Marc:Got him hooked?

01:10:16Marc:He was the sucker, yeah.

01:10:17Marc:Yeah.

01:10:19Guest:Well, she got him hooked.

01:10:20Guest:She got him in with the smack thing, I think.

01:10:22Guest:And when do you get it involved?

01:10:24Guest:After the pistols broke up.

01:10:25Marc:Oh, really?

01:10:26Marc:Yeah.

01:10:27Marc:You come here, how many dates do you do?

01:10:28Marc:You do New York, you go across country.

01:10:30Marc:I remember seeing magazine articles.

01:10:32Marc:You guys did, you did a little tour, right?

01:10:33Marc:Yeah, but we did weird places.

01:10:35Guest:Right.

01:10:35Guest:Like Texas and Tulsa.

01:10:37Guest:Yeah.

01:10:37Guest:Not the normal places.

01:10:39Guest:Why is that?

01:10:40Guest:It was a stunt from McLaren.

01:10:43Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:10:43Guest:Which rightly so.

01:10:44Guest:It was a good one.

01:10:45Guest:Not doing all the normal gigs that every other rock and roll band came over.

01:10:50Marc:So are you getting hated everywhere?

01:10:51Guest:Yeah.

01:10:53Guest:By cowboys and...

01:10:54Guest:It was a circus.

01:10:56Guest:No one was really coming to see anything.

01:10:59Guest:It was a circus.

01:10:59Guest:It was out of control at this point.

01:11:01Guest:Really?

01:11:02Guest:Really.

01:11:02Guest:Really out of control.

01:11:04Guest:How so?

01:11:05Guest:Well, when we landed in New York, we were greeted by like 50 people, some Vietnam vets who was meant to be looking after us, High Times Magazine, this magazine, that magazine, New York Times, blah, blah, blah.

01:11:24Guest:And they were all looking for the exclusive, you know.

01:11:27Guest:One time when we were on the road, I don't know where it was, but High Times convinced Sid to come into a hotel room and film him shooting up.

01:11:38Guest:You know, and they almost got it if it wasn't through one of these vet guys who crashed in the door and smashed up the camera.

01:11:45Guest:Really?

01:11:46Guest:Yeah.

01:11:47Guest:We were on thin ice anyway.

01:11:49Guest:Yeah.

01:11:50Guest:I think Warner Brothers had to guarantee that there'd be no problems because we got turned down originally with my visa.

01:11:58Guest:And I think Cookie had a criminal record.

01:12:01Guest:They didn't want us in the States.

01:12:02Guest:Yeah.

01:12:02Guest:But I think they had to get a guarantee from Warner Brothers.

01:12:06Guest:So you left EMI.

01:12:07Yeah.

01:12:07Guest:EMI was over before we went to America.

01:12:10Guest:We went to A&M, which lasted a week.

01:12:14Guest:They kicked us off, and then we ended up with Virgin, Richard Branson.

01:12:20Guest:Yeah.

01:12:21Marc:So the whole thing was a clusterfuck disaster.

01:12:23Guest:Yeah.

01:12:23Guest:That tour.

01:12:24Guest:Yeah.

01:12:25Marc:And you go back to Britain, and what happened?

01:12:26Guest:I didn't go back to Britain.

01:12:27Guest:You stayed here.

01:12:28Guest:We broke up in San Francisco.

01:12:30Guest:I said, I'm fucking done.

01:12:32Guest:We were meant to go to Brazil.

01:12:34Yeah.

01:12:34Guest:after that would have killed you that would have been the end of it yeah and we were meant to go there and Ronnie Biggs the great train robber was going to open up with us tell poetry yeah so I said I've had enough Cookie came with me and Malcolm came with me we went to Brazil and was continuing to do the rock and roll swindle movie

01:13:03Guest:That was in production?

01:13:05Guest:That was kind of in production, yeah.

01:13:07Guest:John didn't want nothing to do with it.

01:13:09Guest:Why?

01:13:10Guest:Because he didn't like the concept of it.

01:13:12Guest:What was the concept?

01:13:13Guest:The concept of it was to make Malcolm McLaren look like he invented everything.

01:13:19Guest:so i then john and glenn i mean john and malcolm always butted heads yeah always butted heads but i was more closer to malcolm so that decision was was easier for me and it sounded like a good idea to go to brazil yeah just me and cookie without the other two and they have fun did you have fun i had a great time i was there for like two months doing real blow yeah

01:13:43Guest:That's what you remember?

01:13:45Guest:Real blow, man.

01:13:47Guest:This was like 78.

01:13:48Guest:It was so good.

01:13:49Guest:Yeah.

01:13:51Guest:And you're shooting a movie?

01:13:53Guest:Yeah, we did.

01:13:54Guest:Yeah, it was like a real shoestring budget.

01:13:56Guest:Yeah.

01:13:57Guest:But it was fun.

01:13:58Guest:I don't remember ever seeing the whole movie.

01:13:59Guest:Yeah.

01:14:00Guest:It's a mishmash.

01:14:01Guest:It don't make no sense.

01:14:02Guest:It's kind of culty.

01:14:03Guest:I remember seeing, well, you know, Sid's My Way is on that, right?

01:14:06Guest:It's in that, right?

01:14:07Guest:Yeah.

01:14:07Guest:Then I go back to England.

01:14:09Guest:Yeah.

01:14:09Guest:And that's when it hit me.

01:14:11Guest:And we're still filming some of the rock and roll swindle.

01:14:16Guest:It was over a few months.

01:14:17Guest:That's when I started getting into dope.

01:14:20Guest:That's when I started getting into dope.

01:14:22Guest:That's when it started getting very dark and horrible.

01:14:25Guest:I sold everything.

01:14:27Guest:You were broke?

01:14:28Guest:Broke.

01:14:29Guest:Not a businessman.

01:14:30Guest:yeah you know i just wanted to escape escape through dope that was it no music i couldn't care less we formed the band somewhere in there the professionals yeah me and cookie was he strung out too no cookie was a sensible one yeah um

01:14:49Guest:so we did that we wrote a bunch of songs but my my heart weren't in it my heart was just into getting high yeah music anything else was secondary we went on the road um a couple of times across the states yeah but it was just one big one big mess

01:15:06Marc:yeah not as i liked it because i like the guys in the band yeah but my head was just not in the right place because you're strung out yeah and you're like going like on tour and trying to find dope and doing that whole thing that whole thing drunk all the time blow god grim and how long that go on for

01:15:26Guest:couple of years so like when did you like stay stateside well when i when i went to that hotel our last night at a uruguay hotel yeah i said i'll see you later yeah and i didn't go back to england for 12 years i sold my passport found uh you sold your passport yeah not for much you can do that i guess so i did

01:15:49Guest:To a guy that looked like you?

01:15:50Guest:How does that work?

01:15:51Guest:No, I just sold it as fan.

01:15:52Marc:Oh, fan.

01:15:53Marc:Okay, I get it.

01:15:54Marc:Now it makes sense.

01:15:55Guest:Yeah.

01:15:55Guest:To whoever.

01:15:56Guest:I didn't want to never go back.

01:16:00Guest:That's why I sold it.

01:16:01Guest:So when do you do the first solo album?

01:16:04Guest:Oh, that's when I got sober.

01:16:07Marc:So you didn't stay with the dope the whole time?

01:16:10Guest:i mean like once you once you got here you weren't doing nothing first year i did dope in new york city i stayed in new york for a year formed this other but this other band came about checkered past yeah with michael debars uh tony sales hunts uh tony sales clem burke and nigel harrison from blondie no hunt no hunt

01:16:35Guest:i like hunt he's a great drummer it's great and he's funny so that band starts in new york we did some uh this is like around 82 83 we did a showcase at peppermint lounge in new york i'm a mess but i heard money yeah from this showcase this is when there was money around yeah we did it everyone liked the show oh let's start a band okay it's based in la

01:17:01Guest:So we kind of all drifted out to LA.

01:17:05Guest:I was a mess.

01:17:06Guest:I went to some private doctor who gave me this methadone thing.

01:17:11Guest:Yeah.

01:17:12Guest:I got off it, but then I was still drinking and doing blow and all the rest of it.

01:17:16Guest:But you got off dope.

01:17:17Guest:I got off the dope for a bit.

01:17:20Guest:This band got a deal with EMI.

01:17:22Guest:I started living with Michael DeBars and his wife, Pamela DeBars.

01:17:28Guest:Yeah.

01:17:29Guest:Um, the band did a record, did a few shows, uh, folded.

01:17:35Guest:I got back into dope here in LA.

01:17:39Guest:That shitty black tar dope?

01:17:41Guest:Uh, the balloons.

01:17:42Guest:Yeah.

01:17:43Guest:Downtown.

01:17:44Guest:Yeah.

01:17:45Yeah.

01:17:45Guest:this went on and until um i run into a lady i was homeless at this point what year are we looking at 83 84 i'd fucked everyone over yeah i was couch surfing um and i ran into a lady on um sunset boulevard where the guitar center is there used to be one of my uh places that i go 12 step program yeah and she said look um she'd gotten straight she said if you sleep on you can sleep on my couch but you have to go to meetings

01:18:14Guest:And I said, okay.

01:18:17Guest:And I did that and got sober.

01:18:21Guest:Didn't get it at this point.

01:18:22Guest:83?

01:18:23Guest:Yeah, this went on for about another six years before the coin.

01:18:26Guest:In and out?

01:18:27Guest:In and out, before the coin actually dropped.

01:18:29Guest:really yeah what did you get a year here six months here what all that yeah plus when i when i you know i hadn't had sex in like six years i don't know if you've ever done dope but you're not sexual driven it just stops yeah you know you don't even masturbate yeah so after six years i'm getting sober i'm off the dope i'm i'm an animal

01:18:53Guest:you know yeah and all i want to do is to get laid yeah and i go to my meetings and i'm steaming into everyone my addiction went from there to sex yeah and i never really got the step thing yeah at this point i just wanted attention from chicks i was working out i was getting all in shape i remember you were kind of ripped

01:19:14Guest:I was ripped a little like Fabio.

01:19:15Guest:Yeah.

01:19:16Guest:With the long hair.

01:19:17Guest:Curly hair.

01:19:17Guest:Metal guy.

01:19:18Guest:Flowing hair.

01:19:20Guest:But that was the best time.

01:19:21Guest:I actually did a record that was kind of a metal record.

01:19:23Guest:Yeah.

01:19:24Guest:Just to get laid.

01:19:25Marc:That was the Mercy record?

01:19:27Marc:The next one, Fire and Gasoline, when I really went for it.

01:19:31Marc:Yeah.

01:19:32Yeah.

01:19:32Marc:I always wondered what that transition was.

01:19:34Marc:I didn't know how you got from the pistols to there, but now I know.

01:19:36Marc:It was for pussy.

01:19:37Guest:It was basically for pussy, but it was also me getting straight for the first time and wanting nothing to do with punk.

01:19:44Guest:Yeah.

01:19:45Marc:Were you hanging out with the Roxy and shit?

01:19:47Guest:The rainbow?

01:19:48Guest:The rainbow, yeah, the rainbow.

01:19:49Guest:Rainbow.

01:19:49Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:19:49Guest:And the Roxy.

01:19:50Guest:Rainbow has a good Italian food, right?

01:19:53Guest:I don't know.

01:19:53Guest:Everyone says it's the best chicken soup.

01:19:55Guest:I think that's, I don't know.

01:19:57Guest:I'll tell you, my date is October 28th, 1990.

01:20:03Guest:That's when it all turned around.

01:20:05Guest:I started making dough at this point.

01:20:07Guest:I had my own place that I was renting up in the hills.

01:20:10Guest:From music you were making, Brett?

01:20:11Guest:Yeah, from the two solo albums, working with Iggy Pop, Andy Taylor.

01:20:17Guest:Yeah.

01:20:18Guest:Made a lot of money from that.

01:20:19Guest:With who?

01:20:20Guest:Andy Taylor?

01:20:20Guest:The guitar player from Duran Duran.

01:20:23Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:20:25Guest:I was doing okay.

01:20:26Guest:What'd you do with Iggy?

01:20:27Guest:I wrote three songs on blah, blah, blah.

01:20:31Marc:Oh, good.

01:20:32Marc:That was a big record.

01:20:33Guest:Yeah.

01:20:34Guest:I was really bummed that I couldn't play on it, but they did it in Switzerland, and I didn't have any papers in all.

01:20:41Guest:I was really bummed.

01:20:41Guest:I would love to have done that with David Bowie producing.

01:20:45Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:20:45Guest:And then the second album, an album called Instinct, did that in New York with Bill Laswell, and I played all the guitar on that.

01:20:52Guest:Again, co-wrote three or four songs.

01:20:54Marc:Oh, really?

01:20:55Marc:So you had a real relationship with James.

01:20:57Guest:Yeah.

01:20:57Marc:Yeah.

01:20:58Guest:It was great.

01:20:59Guest:He's great.

01:21:01Guest:I relapse again.

01:21:02Guest:On dope?

01:21:03Guest:Yeah.

01:21:05Guest:Take some bird prisoner.

01:21:07Guest:We're shooting dope with one big horse needle.

01:21:10Guest:The only time I go out is to get Caesar salad and ice cream.

01:21:15Guest:And this went on for about two weeks.

01:21:18Guest:And everyone knows me.

01:21:20Guest:In the rooms.

01:21:21Guest:Anyone who works manager, friends, when I go missing, they know I'm getting loaded.

01:21:28Guest:Right.

01:21:29Guest:Because I don't go around people making out I'm sober when I'm high.

01:21:33Guest:Yeah.

01:21:34Guest:I disappear.

01:21:34Guest:So they knew.

01:21:35Guest:and uh i was gonna i was convincing myself on one of the on one of these that i was gonna get sober again i was gonna medic self-medicate myself with some painkillers yeah and quaaludes yeah and go back to the meetings and no one would know right that lasted about 10 minutes and i and i said fucking holy fuck i'm done you know yeah it was a moment

01:22:01Guest:When you made that plan and you realized that.

01:22:03Guest:I was a moment and I surrendered.

01:22:05Guest:I absolutely surrendered.

01:22:07Guest:And now I know that feeling of like that was my bottom.

01:22:11Guest:That was it.

01:22:12Guest:Because after that, I just turned it all around.

01:22:15Guest:I got involved.

01:22:17Guest:i got a sponsor he said he said jump i said how high it was all i mean i was still fucking chicks yeah but i was doing i was doing the business yeah in the rooms as well you're working the shit yeah yeah and that and that was it and here i am 26 years later

01:22:33Guest:surviving and you look well you look relatively healthy yeah i gotta i gotta um food is the is the last frontier you know diabetes you got the diabetes i do but i'm i'm turning it around i've been i've been dieting for not dieting but watching what i'm eating for the last two months

01:22:51Guest:and now like what what happens like after all this time because that you know what how did your relationship with lyden hold up oh we don't have a relationship you don't at all no he lives in this we lives you know not far he lives down in venice yeah and there is no relationship that just didn't it ended badly and that was it

01:23:10Guest:uh well we you know the last time i think i saw him was in 2008 at the same time when i saw my real dad we did 30 shows in europe russia japan 30 who was the lineup was you and leiden and cook and the original bass player really yeah every anytime we've done reunions it's been the original four

01:23:30Marc:And are they good?

01:23:31Marc:Do you like them?

01:23:33Marc:Do you like the tour?

01:23:34Marc:I mean, do you guys play well together?

01:23:35Guest:It has been good.

01:23:38Guest:There's moments.

01:23:39Guest:Yeah.

01:23:40Guest:But by the end of it, I just want to kill myself.

01:23:44Guest:You know?

01:23:44Guest:And it's a shame.

01:23:46Guest:Yeah.

01:23:46Guest:Because we should be over all that shit.

01:23:50Guest:All that stuff.

01:23:51Guest:Yeah.

01:23:52Guest:But, you know, some of us can't let go of resentments.

01:23:55Guest:Yeah.

01:23:56Guest:You have?

01:23:57Guest:Some of us can't let go of resentments.

01:24:04Marc:Hey, you know, it's progress, not perfection.

01:24:08Guest:If we were getting Rolling Stones money, we'd be doing it.

01:24:11Guest:Right.

01:24:12Guest:But at the end of the day, a way up, was that worth it for my well-being?

01:24:18Guest:And it ain't.

01:24:19Marc:Yeah.

01:24:19Guest:And you do this great radio show.

01:24:22Marc:Yeah.

01:24:22Marc:Is that every day?

01:24:23Marc:Five days a week.

01:24:24Marc:You love it?

01:24:25Marc:You came on there.

01:24:26Marc:I did.

01:24:26Marc:We played some messy guitar.

01:24:29Marc:It was fun.

01:24:30Marc:I enjoyed it.

01:24:31Marc:Yeah, it was fun, man.

01:24:32Marc:And people love that show.

01:24:34Marc:It's hard to have a mainstream terrestrial radio show that people still love.

01:24:39Guest:I don't think there's many.

01:24:41Guest:No?

01:24:41Guest:I get to play what I want, say what I want, have who I want on.

01:24:44Guest:and it's great yeah do you uh because you know i think basically terrestrial radio i think a lot of people just want to hear some noise in the background yeah but there is a percentage of true music fans who love music yeah who gravitate to my show because they know they're going to get some good shit an eclectic mix you and rollins rollins does a a show on npr where he plays shit yeah

01:25:11Marc:Yeah.

01:25:12Marc:It's good, you know, because, you know, you hear new stuff or you hear shit you haven't heard in a while, but it's like it's driven by your personality and your taste.

01:25:20Marc:Who are your bands now?

01:25:21Marc:Who do you play a lot on the show?

01:25:22Marc:What do you go back to?

01:25:24Guest:I play new stuff.

01:25:25Guest:There's some new bands I like playing.

01:25:27Guest:That's another thing I get the opportunity to do, play some new bands.

01:25:30Guest:But I go deep.

01:25:32Guest:I play Jeff Rotol.

01:25:33Guest:Yeah.

01:25:34Guest:You know, I play some prog.

01:25:35Guest:Yeah.

01:25:35Guest:I play free.

01:25:37Guest:Yeah, free.

01:25:37Guest:Yeah, sure.

01:25:38Guest:You know, deep cuts.

01:25:39Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:25:39Guest:Whatever.

01:25:40Guest:Roxy Music, Bowie.

01:25:41Guest:Yeah.

01:25:42Guest:New York Dolls, which is insane for KLOS.

01:25:46Guest:Yeah.

01:25:47Guest:But I've been doing it for so long, it's almost like normal now.

01:25:49Guest:Yeah.

01:25:50Guest:People expect it.

01:25:51Marc:Do you do a lot of interviews on your show?

01:25:52Marc:I know I came on.

01:25:53Guest:Do you have people on?

01:25:54Guest:Yeah, loads.

01:25:55Marc:Yeah.

01:25:55Marc:Did you ever meet Bowie and talk to him?

01:25:59Guest:Yeah.

01:26:00Guest:I actually met him a couple of times.

01:26:02Marc:Did you make an amends for the thief?

01:26:04Guest:I made amends over the phone, I believe.

01:26:07Guest:You did?

01:26:07Guest:Well, I had the original drummer came on my show six months ago with Tony Visconti.

01:26:15Marc:The producer, yeah.

01:26:16Guest:They were doing this Holy Holy tour.

01:26:19Guest:It was that one album that Visconti produced.

01:26:26Guest:I don't know.

01:26:26Guest:They were going around.

01:26:27Guest:A Bowie record.

01:26:28Guest:It was a Bowie record.

01:26:29Guest:I don't know why it was called Holy Holy.

01:26:32Guest:I'm just having a blank moment.

01:26:33Guest:But anyway, the drummer came on.

01:26:35Guest:And I owed him an amends for the symbols that I stole off him.

01:26:40Guest:At the Hammersmith?

01:26:41Guest:At the Hammersmith Odeon.

01:26:42Guest:Did he remember?

01:26:44Guest:Well, I said, now I'm thinking, now I'm looking at him.

01:26:48Guest:I'm thinking, should I do this live or say off air?

01:26:51Guest:How's he going to react?

01:26:53Guest:And I thought, fuck it.

01:26:54Guest:I'll just do it.

01:26:54Guest:Wait till we're on the air.

01:26:56Guest:And I said, I said...

01:26:57Guest:Woody I owe you amends yeah he said you do he said you are yeah I said I stole your symbols from Hammersmith Odeon he goes oh really I said yes I don't know if he was he knew I don't know how he could not know yeah when your symbols disappear yeah you have to replace them yeah someone must have told him yeah you know the symbols are gone and so I said what can I do to make it right he didn't remember though he said he didn't yeah

01:27:27Guest:He said, I said, let me give you some money.

01:27:29Guest:He said, how much do you want?

01:27:30Guest:He said, give me 100 bucks.

01:27:31Guest:I said, here's 200 bucks.

01:27:34Guest:And he took the 200 bucks.

01:27:35Guest:He was over the moon.

01:27:37Guest:And I was glad.

01:27:38Guest:I felt good making amends.

01:27:41Guest:It's a load off.

01:27:42Guest:And then he put that in his book.

01:27:44Guest:He did?

01:27:44Guest:He had a book that came out two weeks later.

01:27:47Guest:He must have rushed that one thing in there and put it in the book.

01:27:51Guest:And then I went and saw him at the gig at the Wilton that night.

01:27:54Guest:He's a fantastic drummer, man.

01:27:56Guest:Yeah.

01:27:57Guest:Woody Woodmansey kicks ass.

01:28:00Guest:He played with Bowie on what?

01:28:02Guest:Which ones?

01:28:03Guest:He must have been with them a long time.

01:28:05Guest:Ziggy Stardust, Aladdin Sane.

01:28:07Guest:Wow.

01:28:09Guest:Man, that guy is better than ever.

01:28:12Guest:i just got that bowie at the bbc box yeah holy shit yeah to hear that band stripped down yeah no tricks no all those bands through all those years they're like they're like one of them bands like free yeah where they're all putting their 25 cents in that there's no weak link yeah that that's what that's what ziggy uh that's what the spiders from mars were like great bass player yeah

01:28:35Guest:um the drummer and mick ronson of course who's my man yeah he's my number one he's a gibson guy he's my man he's still around no he died of cancer yeah but he he he not only was a great guitar player he was classically trained so like on transformer lou reed oh yeah all that stuff that's him

01:28:56Guest:And that's him on the Bowie records.

01:28:58Guest:All that stuff.

01:29:00Guest:Yeah.

01:29:00Guest:Weird chord changes.

01:29:01Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:29:03Guest:And he's a great guitar player.

01:29:05Guest:Was he a good guy?

01:29:06Guest:Fantastic guy.

01:29:07Guest:Sweetheart.

01:29:08Guest:Yeah.

01:29:08Guest:That was his problem.

01:29:10Guest:Yeah.

01:29:10Guest:No one knew who he was because he was so sweet.

01:29:12Guest:Ah.

01:29:13Guest:He didn't stand up for himself.

01:29:15Guest:Hmm.

01:29:15Guest:You know?

01:29:15Marc:All right, man.

01:29:16Marc:It was great talking to you, buddy.

01:29:18Marc:When's this going to be up?

01:29:19Marc:Not too long.

01:29:20Marc:Do you play music?

01:29:22Marc:No.

01:29:22Marc:I noodle around on the guitar after sometimes by myself.

01:29:25Marc:Because you don't have to pay for that.

01:29:27Marc:I don't have to pay for it.

01:29:28Marc:And I just got in the habit of it.

01:29:29Marc:We have a theme song.

01:29:31Marc:But like now that I've been noodling, my producer is cutting that up and uses it in between things.

01:29:36Guest:Yeah.

01:29:37Marc:Just me on these.

01:29:38Marc:See, they send me, some Earthquaker sends me these pedals.

01:29:42Marc:Yeah.

01:29:43Marc:So I fuck around on a guitar or two.

01:29:45Marc:You're getting some free shit.

01:29:47Marc:I get free shit.

01:29:48Marc:That means you're doing all right.

01:29:49Marc:That's the best thing about it.

01:29:50Marc:Yeah.

01:29:50Marc:The free shit.

01:29:52Marc:Yeah.

01:29:52Guest:Records, pedals.

01:29:53Guest:I'm just getting a mountain bike for nothing.

01:29:55Marc:Really?

01:29:56Marc:Yeah.

01:29:56Marc:It's time.

01:29:57Guest:like a motorcycle or a pedal bike no a pedal good i'm saying you were trying to get in shape it's a good one too carbon fiber are you gonna use it probably not that's what take the bike i got sitting out there when i had a big idea yeah it's like a solo flex remember them things yeah i gotta get one of those i fucking had when all it did was collect dust and i'd fuck chicks on it

01:30:24Guest:At least you've got a little exercise.

01:30:27Guest:Yeah, five minutes worth.

01:30:28Guest:Thanks, Steve.

01:30:29Guest:All right, buddy.

01:30:35Marc:all right people that was uh the lovely steve jones hope you enjoyed that don't forget go to wtfpod.com slash tour for my tour dates or just go there and do it for the podcast get on the mailing list buy a poster do what you have to do i'm gonna enjoy my last couple days in hawaii now okay boomer lives

01:31:05you