Episode 775 - James Hetfield
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is the wtf podcast welcome to it
Marc:How you holding up?
Marc:Are you all right?
Marc:Are you keeping it together?
Marc:Just take a breath.
Marc:Just take a breath.
Marc:It doesn't matter where you are.
Marc:If you're in your car, if you're on the treadmill, if you're climbing Everest.
Marc:Well, I...
Marc:don't don't go crazy with the breath i know how that goes and also get down just get the fuck down seriously turn around and go it's not it's not worth it just just pretend like you made it make it in your mind climb everest in your head and consider yourself victorious do that that's self-empowering what's happening i am uh
Marc:I am happy to say that I got James Hetfield from Metallica here.
Marc:Metallica.
Marc:Honestly, I was not teenage during the rise and reign of Metallica.
Marc:So my knowledge and connection was not one of...
Marc:whose post-pubescent years were altered by Metallica.
Marc:I did not have Metallica coursing through my cock as it moved into the world.
Marc:But, you know, I did take it in.
Marc:I'll explain a little bit my relation with Metallica in a second.
Marc:I do want to...
Marc:Bring it to everyone's attention that I will be touring.
Marc:Some of you know that.
Marc:I've got a lot of tour dates coming up in January, February, March, and April, mostly in February, March, and April.
Marc:I will be in Tallahassee, Florida at the Ruby Diamond Concert Hall on January 24th.
Marc:I'll be at the Carolina Theater in Durham.
Marc:February 17th, the Knight Theater in Charlotte, February 18th.
Marc:I'll be at the Ridgefield Playhouse in Ridgefield, Connecticut, March 2nd.
Marc:The Music Hall in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, March 3rd.
Marc:Olympia de Montreal in Montreal, Quebec, March 4th.
Marc:The Danforth Music Hall in Toronto, Ontario, that's sold out on March 5th.
Marc:College Street Music Hall in New Haven, March 10th.
Marc:Troy Savings Bank Music Hall, March 11th.
Marc:Flynn Center in Burlington, Vermont, March 12th.
Marc:I'll be in Oakland at the Fox Oakland, March 24th.
Marc:I'll be at the Moore Theater in Seattle, March 25th.
Marc:I'll be at the Vogue Theater in Vancouver, March 26th.
Marc:Paramount Theater, Austin, Texas, March 31st.
Marc:Boulder Theater, Boulder, Colorado, April 7th.
Marc:Paramount Theater in Denver, Colorado, April 8th.
Marc:Aladdin Theater in Portland, Oregon on April 21st.
Marc:Aladdin Theater in Portland, Oregon again on April 22nd.
Marc:I'll be at the Pabst Theater in Milwaukee on the 27th of April.
Marc:The Orpheum in Madison, April 28th.
Marc:The Pantages in Minneapolis on the 29th.
Marc:Two shows at the Pantages.
Marc:I believe we're shooting a special there.
Marc:I'll be at the Miriam Theater in Philly, May 12th.
Marc:And the Warner Theater in D.C.
Marc:on May 13th.
Marc:whoo doggie and those are all the dates if i didn't get to your city uh this tour get to one of the cities i mentioned because i don't know how much longer i don't know when the next tour will be because i'm gonna lay back and uh put shit together at my own pace tired of russian there's no struggle there will be a struggle but it's not with me
Marc:Yeah, so this will be the last tour for a while.
Marc:I'll be doing dates here and there.
Marc:And I'll get out.
Marc:You know, I say these things.
Marc:I'm being dramatic.
Marc:But I do want some downtime to sort through stuff.
Marc:Because I'll tell you, these last couple weeks, aside from mentally preparing for the tremendous shift in the fabric of the country and the world that happens this month, I...
Marc:I've enjoyed the downtime to sort of like regroup, dig into my own life, figure out where I stand, watch some compelling, informative documentaries, read some books, search through shit.
Marc:I just watched Adam Curtis's earlier doc, The Century of the Self.
Marc:which was, again, a nice preface to the new one, hyper-normalization, which has really shifted my perception.
Marc:And also, as bleak as it all is, it's very relieving how much of it was seemingly out of my control personally.
Marc:I think balls were dropped, but not necessarily mine directly.
Marc:And perhaps with the new perception, we can move forward with open eyes a bit.
Marc:I regret to say, because I know a lot of you hold on to these expectations.
Marc:I regret to say there'll be no guitar playing at the end of today's show because I've injured myself.
Marc:I've lopped off a piece of my finger.
Marc:That's the price you pay for getting a new knife for Christmas.
Marc:All my knives are just dull enough not to slice a piece of my fucking finger off.
Marc:So I was gifted this beautiful big new knife.
Marc:And I was excited about it because I enjoy a sharp knife, but I think ultimately I'd gotten used to my semi-sharp knives and I wasn't afraid of them or did I think twice about them?
Marc:They were sharp enough, but I had surrendered to the idea that these were the knives I've been given.
Marc:But someone sent me a new knife and the other day I was cutting through some tofu and
Marc:And cutting them into cubes so I could fry them up a bit for my girl Sarah, who's a veggie.
Marc:And I eat better when I date vegetarians.
Marc:That's not why I'm dating her.
Marc:And I slice down and you know that first ping, that little like, ooh, that is a bad feeling on my skin.
Marc:but you know exactly what that feeling is it's not pain at first it's just i've cut my finger how bad is it you have no idea until you pull it out and there's blood going all over a big chunk of tofu bloody tofu that's not on the menu
Marc:And I look at it and look, I've been in the restaurant game.
Marc:I did my time in delis.
Marc:I did my time as a short order cook.
Marc:I sliced through my fucking thumb, cutting a bagel, needed four stitches.
Marc:I've lopped off the tip of that same thumb on a slicer, not paying attention, moving through some roast beef.
Marc:Yeah, I've had to wrap the bloody restaurant rag washcloth around my hand as I was driven to the hospital with my hand out the window elevated up like some sort of bloody turn signal.
Marc:I've been there.
Marc:I've been through those restaurant wars when I was a younger man.
Marc:So I was familiar with the situation.
Marc:So I pulled my finger out.
Marc:Blood's coming out of it.
Marc:And there was a flap.
Marc:Just a flap on my pointer finger.
Marc:Just a flap of skin.
Marc:Nice little circle.
Marc:Just lopped off a little... Just a tip with prints and everything.
Marc:Just gushing blood.
Marc:Sarah's getting nauseous.
Marc:Gotta clean it out.
Marc:Dump some peroxide on it.
Marc:The flap is barely holding on.
Marc:You don't know what to do in that moment because you know...
Marc:Those of you who have been through this, I'm going to walk you through it, that if you lop a piece of your finger off, if you don't try to salvage the flap of skin or however much finger you cut off, then you've got that weird open raw thing that's got a scab down below the nerves.
Marc:And it's tedious and very sensitive for a long time.
Marc:So you want to try to save that flap out.
Marc:I knew I couldn't get it stitched on because if I would have went to the emergency room, I would have waited.
Marc:It would have cost me some bread.
Marc:And they would have said, we're not going to stitch it.
Marc:We're just going to cut that shit off and put some goo on top of it and dress it.
Marc:So I'm thinking, we're going to save it, man.
Marc:We're going to save that flap.
Marc:So I put it on, peroxide it, cleaned it out, put some neosporin, gauzed it up.
Marc:And I've been gauzed, dressing it twice a day.
Marc:And I think the flap is taking.
Marc:And that's going to be the name of my new CD.
Marc:But I think the flap is taking.
Marc:And I'm just amazed and obsessed with the miracles of the human body.
Marc:I hope it takes.
Marc:It hasn't turned black.
Marc:It hasn't dried up.
Marc:It hasn't fallen off.
Marc:It's a perfect little circle on the tip of my finger.
Marc:And I'm just keeping it dressed.
Marc:And I'm not fucking ramming it into anything.
Marc:And I'll be so proud of my skin if it takes.
Marc:James Hetfield, Metallica.
Marc:I got the opportunity to talk to him.
Marc:He was out making the rounds.
Marc:I was happy to talk to him, but nervous as I usually am when you talk to a recording artist that has many records out.
Marc:You may know a couple, but depending on your fan-ness.
Marc:I knew obviously Metallica.
Marc:I know some Metallica records.
Marc:I listened to the new record.
Marc:I enjoyed it because most Metallica stuff I'm coming to with fresh ears.
Marc:I went through their whole catalog.
Marc:I I tracked the evolution.
Marc:But again, my dick wasn't into it like I wasn't.
Marc:You know, it did not it did not interface with my rage complex.
Marc:uh when i was younger my rage was not as defined and uh you know i was sort of as you know blues based brain acdc was my metal guy and i don't know if they're metal i'd consider them more hard rock but acdc they were them but i was not specifically metal you know metal is metal i mean when i was in high school
Marc:Judas Priest was around.
Marc:But I didn't lock in.
Marc:I wasn't locked in.
Marc:It didn't integrate with my teenage sexual frustration and general angst.
Marc:So I did not have that emotional, visceral connection to the music of Metallica.
Marc:So I came to it all with open mind and open heart.
Marc:And I enjoyed it.
Marc:And I love the new record.
Marc:But it's interesting.
Marc:Because I inherited all these records.
Marc:I told you about that woman, Kristen, who gave me her dad's records.
Marc:Well, I've been going through them.
Marc:Some of them I had, some of them I didn't need, some of them I hadn't heard in a while.
Marc:Some of them were completely new to me, but the point is,
Marc:A lot of Jethro Tull.
Marc:I mean, like, a lot of Jethro Tull.
Marc:Now, look, I'll be honest with you.
Marc:I saw Tull when I was in high school, I believe, in Albuquerque.
Marc:I remember because we went and my buddy Chris tried to smuggle a half pint or a pint of Southern Comfort in in his sock.
Marc:And we got it in.
Marc:And then when we jumped the...
Marc:the guardrail to get down into the pit from the outside seats, the grandstand seats, the bottle broke and cut his leg open.
Marc:I don't remember what happened after that, but I do remember that happened.
Marc:I don't think we went to the hospital, but it was not a good situation.
Marc:But I think Southern Comfort has curative powers, both as a drink, an anesthetic, and also as an antiseptic cleanser of wounds.
Marc:So I did see Tull.
Marc:Tull did not stay with me.
Marc:But since I had all these records, I was listening to some Tull.
Marc:I listened to Aqualung.
Marc:I listened to Benefit.
Marc:I listened to Living in the Past.
Marc:because I had these records.
Marc:And it was weird because there's a couple of songs on Aqualung that I think that Metallica could cover.
Marc:There was a tonal similarity.
Marc:So I was able to track some of the hard rock metal roots, especially the way Metallica does it, where you're moving through slower songs, more ballad.
Marc:They're not ballad, but they're definitely slow and thoughtful.
Marc:Even the singing a little bit.
Marc:I didn't bring this up with Hetfield because it happened after I talked to him.
Marc:My second wife, Mishnah, was a complete fucking metalhead.
Marc:So I went through eight years of that.
Marc:I mean, we had in our house, there was a room and a full shelf dedicated to metal action figures, Ozzy Osbourne, Metallica.
Marc:There was a lot of metal in the house at that time.
Marc:So I don't know if I grew to appreciate it then or resent it, but it was around.
Marc:What I'm saying is I'm open.
Marc:Metallica's good music.
Marc:And the new record is good.
Marc:And I was excited to talk to Mr. Hetfield.
Marc:And the new record is called Hardwired to Self-Destruct.
Marc:It's out now.
Marc:And this is me and James talking.
Yeah.
Guest:are you good is it good in your head is what good in my head anything anything good in my head anything good in your head yeah sounds good
Marc:I mean, I lived in the Bay Area and you guys are very or you were at least very present socially in the Bay Area.
Marc:Like I knew people that were like, oh, yeah, Lars's house.
Marc:Like people had stories about this or that.
Marc:And but you didn't you're not indigenous to the Bay Area from here.
Marc:Yeah, I grew up in Downey.
Marc:Now, what is out in Downey?
Guest:uh right now but like when you grew up I have a hard time picturing it because I think I talked to you know Dave Alvin and Phil Alvin they came from the outskirts somewhere but I have no sense of what the outskirts of Los Angeles are yeah Downey is uh gosh when I was growing up it was basically you know it was you know it was kind of suburbia yeah you know there was the mall down the street and uh
Guest:It was a great place to grow up.
Guest:The mall.
Guest:Had a cool neighborhood.
Guest:I could walk or ride my bike to every school.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Elementary, middle school, high school.
Guest:Just American towny land.
Guest:Pretty much.
Guest:I think right now there is somewhere like a poster or something written on one of these big electrical boxes that are on the corners.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's the home of James Hetfield and on the other side, and the Carpenters.
Guest:So there you go.
Guest:They must have switched it at some point.
Guest:I think they did.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:The Carpenters were definitely bigger news than me, for sure.
Guest:A little while ago.
Guest:Not anymore.
Marc:You beat them out.
Marc:That's weird.
Marc:They came from there, too?
Guest:Yeah, they did.
Guest:I remember growing up, and we would drive to church.
Guest:And on the way there, there was...
Guest:There was a close to me and gosh, I can't remember what, but there were the names of the condo apartment buildings that they owned.
Guest:So the carpenters owned some apartments.
Marc:They had business.
Guest:They were business people, small business owners in Downey.
Guest:They were thinking ahead.
Marc:Real estate people.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:I think the brother's still alive.
Marc:I think so.
Marc:Did you ever hear that movie, the Karen Carpenter story that was done by Todd Haynes with just Barbie dolls?
Marc:It's great.
Marc:It's a genius.
Marc:It doesn't matter.
Marc:So Downey, you're on your way to church.
Marc:You drive by the condos.
Marc:What kind of church?
Guest:uh christian science oh my god yeah so driving there and i thought you know oh wow the carpenters they own apartments yeah they they're they've made it yeah i i got i got to beat them out on a electrical box at some point yeah yeah and you did it you did it i did now like christian scientist that's uh what's her name eddie is that her what's the the mary baker eddie yeah that's a big uh yeah i was in boston and they had a big christian scientist thing there and yeah it was a it's a interesting concept did you get out of it
Guest:uh i did yeah i did and yeah i mean you know did you get out of it is it a cult yes it was a cult i was they're all cults yeah yeah yeah i was i was yep some cults are better than others i agree you know they could work you know what i mean if you're not hurting anybody hey the metallic cult is doing well alive and well right now sure is man that new like that new record is like it's great yeah thank you
Marc:I mean, it's really great.
Marc:And I, you know, it's like I haven't followed you the whole way.
Marc:And like, we're like the exact same age.
Marc:So when I was in high school, you know, we were listening to different things.
Marc:But I think that like a lot of times I would imagine with Metallica that a lot of your fans start when they're in high school.
Marc:I'd imagine so.
Marc:Right.
Marc:They're pissed off.
Marc:They're pissed off and hate life and wish they were somewhere else.
Marc:Well, the weird thing about this record,
Marc:was that I'm listening to it recently, and as a grown person, a grown-up man who wasn't programmed by the Metallica cult in high school, I was like, holy shit.
Marc:Yeah, right, you didn't get me.
Marc:I was like, this is good fucking rock.
Marc:I mean, I was all in the whole time, all the way through.
Marc:Nice.
Marc:And then I listened to most of your catalog in the last three days.
Marc:So I've witnessed the whole evolution of you and the fellas
Marc:Like in like 78 hours.
Marc:You're brave.
Marc:You're brave.
Marc:Well, it was just interesting to hear you singing on the first three records.
Marc:And then at some point he's like, there's the voice.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, can you balls dropped?
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Or at least one of them did.
Guest:Can you hear one of the three?
Marc:Can you listen to that stuff?
Guest:I have to.
Guest:It's on the radio.
Guest:I mean, I don't have to listen to it.
Marc:But like the really old stuff, like the first three records.
Guest:Do you ever go back?
Guest:I don't particularly put them on, but if we're rehearsing a song that we haven't played in a long time, you know, I'll go back and listen to it.
Guest:Or, gosh, all right, hockey fans, San Jose Sharks, you go and we go to the Shark Tank and watch the Sharks play.
Guest:Seek and Destroy is their, you know, skating out music.
Marc:and i can't believe it's like are you kidding me this is horrible this sounds terrible get a remixed version come on you should just give it to him show up and give it to him you know it's this little little kid man maybe you should fucking do do one specifically for them that's a good idea we should so when when did you start uh singing well no finally no no
Marc:I kind of hear it.
Marc:It's like the fourth album, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Kind of.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Where do you consider it happening?
Guest:I think the black album.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It's all singing.
Guest:It's all me.
Guest:And it's exactly where I was.
Guest:And that's as good as I could do back then.
Guest:And this is as good as I can do now.
Guest:And who knows?
Marc:Well, I think that's what makes it such a unique voice is that you're just, you know, you're not trying to be anything else.
Marc:You're just figuring it out, right?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:That's kind of what I do everywhere.
Guest:Even right now, I'm thinking out loud and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Marc:I thought the three ball thing was very good.
Marc:It was a nice riff.
Marc:It was good.
Yeah.
Marc:But how do you get from driving around in a car in Downey?
Marc:When does the shit switch in your head where rock and roll becomes essential?
Marc:When did you start waking up to the power of rock to make you feel better?
Marc:Right.
Guest:Well, that's an easy, easy memory for me to access.
Guest:Really?
Guest:It was freshman.
Guest:Well, it was the beginning of sophomore year in Downey High.
Guest:when i showed up for football practice again yeah uh you know i've been on the freshman team showed up in the summer to start you know rehearsing yeah to start practice getting the act together and uh i showed up and i had long hair yeah and the coach just said hey yeah you know you're gonna have that cut you know by next week yeah i said uh why yeah
Guest:It's like, well, because it's sticking out of your helmet.
Guest:It's like, oh, that's the limit right there, the helmet.
Guest:It's like, yeah, but I'm playing in a band and I like music.
Guest:And it's like, well, you can't do that.
Guest:So I never came back.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In my head, yeah.
Guest:I still had to graduate.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You made a quiet choice.
Guest:Yeah, quiet fuck you.
Guest:And just got into music.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:My brother, I have two older half brothers, 10 years older than I. Oh, really?
Guest:They had music.
Guest:They were in bands.
Guest:whose kids were they your mom's yeah yeah same mom uh so my brother was in a band uh called the bitter end and they were uh you know they had like purple and black suits all matching and big thick belts and they were playing you know jimi hendrix covers and oh yeah and stuff like that guitar player uh drummer oh he was a drummer drummer so no guitars in the house there was guitars in the house yeah piano there was drum kit so i i'm eventually gonna play drums
Guest:really that's what you're moving towards well this is this is this is hot news right now i've never told anyone but yeah i'm working on being a drummer at some point are you really yeah and lars wants to sing so it's a good it's a good good trade yeah so that that'll be a more relaxed now for the listener but good trade for us
Guest:have you tried it drums no no i mean like have you switched up oh yeah we have in the studio yeah yeah yeah well we no we did it live yeah in concert oh you do oh yeah there's a song called am i evil that's not the most difficult song to play uh so we would just switch up you know yeah yeah uh and kirk could play bass and you know uh we would just switch the whole thing up what else does lars play
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:He just ran around and he was like a madman.
Guest:It's so funny.
Guest:Robert's kind of a madman too.
Guest:Oh, there's no doubt about it.
Guest:But, you know, Lars wanting to be the front man.
Guest:I don't want a guitar.
Guest:I just run around.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And dude, by the end of the first verse, he was winded because he ran all over the place trying to be like Bruce Dickinson or something, jumping off everything and doing the splits.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then he, that was it.
Marc:He had to take a rest.
Marc:He had to take a break.
Guest:Well, I think that was his fantasy in a five-minute song, and then he was done.
Marc:Got it out of his system.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So your brother was playing Hendrix covers, wearing the matching outfits and stuff.
Marc:When did you start learning how to play music?
Guest:Well, I think I fiddled around with it when I was a kid just because the instruments were around.
Guest:Who played guitar in the house?
Guest:My older brother.
Guest:It was pretty much just an acoustic guitar.
Marc:Not the drummer brother, the other one?
Guest:Yeah, Chris is his name.
Guest:David, the younger brother.
Guest:He was in a band, and they would rehearse in our garage, and they weren't supposed to.
Guest:And one of those things where, you know, okay, the parents are gone.
Guest:He's calling everyone up.
Guest:Come on over.
Guest:We're going to jam.
Guest:And then I go out there, and wow.
Guest:And just everything about it, the noise, the fact that they weren't supposed to be doing it.
Marc:Was there a couple of smoking girls sitting around watching?
Guest:I don't remember that part.
Guest:Because he was always, like, in the rehearsal space, there's always, like, one or two chicks.
Marc:Just like, yeah.
Guest:oh it's just a friend of ours down the street yeah um our first groupie yeah yeah you don't remember that part i don't remember that part but i'm sure that came in soon after that but you know the whole just the smell yeah the smell of the amps the smell of the tubes cooking yeah uh there was something exciting about you know the leather uh on the amp yeah or the vinyl the gear making the gear smelled
Guest:and uh and then you know parents coming home soon oh everyone get out of here and then scrambling with equipment yep and then uh they you know hey what are you guys doing and i hey eddie let me play his his guitar or and i played the keyboards they're like what you blew it yeah my brother's like tell me
Guest:Oh, sorry.
Guest:So that was like right when he started to get, did you take lessons?
Guest:I took piano lessons after that.
Guest:You know, I think what had happened is we had a piano in the house, but I wanted to play drums.
Guest:So that was just, I'm just banging on the piano doing rhythms.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they thought, oh, he's a piano player.
Guest:He wants to play piano.
Guest:So I took that for three years in elementary school and hated piano.
Guest:almost every minute of it that probably helped though right in retrospect i am super grateful that my my you know my mom thought to hey let's do that it was at you know some old lady's house right stunk and it you know cookies at the end was definitely the best part but you learned how to read music yep learned how to read music classical shit yep yeah that because that plays in man
Guest:Well, left and right hand doing different stuff and singing.
Guest:So there's like three things going on.
Guest:So there's no doubt that helped me with my ear and it helped me with, you know, just being able to sing and play at the same time.
Marc:And some of this stuff, like structurally, it seems is not like, you know, you're not like a traditional kind of blues based band.
Marc:No.
Marc:It sounds, it seems like you kind of like, you know, you get around that and it seems like it's almost classical sometimes.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's definitely machinery and classical kind of together.
Guest:I think, uh, uh, like you said, the piano, uh, has, you know, different voicings and layers and stuff.
Guest:And it's not just stripped down blues at all.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, we, you know, we messed around that with that for a little while, but
Guest:you know, always felt a little orchestral, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Orchestral even.
Marc:Yeah, because I noticed, like, it's interesting to, like, and maybe I'm being crazy because, like, again, like, I don't have the whole catalog in my head, but this record, the new record, because I'm like a, you know, I'm more of a,
Marc:you know a hard rock guy than you know than i am like a thrash metal guy but like it seems like there's like you open up with the fucking you know right away but then like it seems like there's a little more a little more space with some of this shit am i wrong like it seemed like you guys were like kirk and you were doing like it wasn't uh it seemed like some of the licks actually uh had some air to them like almost bluesy am i is that wrong for me to say
Guest:No, no.
Guest:Dude, you're listening to music.
Guest:You can't listen to it wrong.
Marc:Right, but was that intentional?
Guest:Do you feel like you're more relaxed?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:I mean, after 35 years of doing what we're doing, we're pretty confident.
Guest:We're getting better.
Guest:We're kind of carving our own sound out.
Guest:Still.
Guest:Still.
Guest:But I think, like what you said about...
Guest:You open up, just bash them in the face, and then hit them with some melody, and then come back, and just when they think they're safe, boom, again.
Guest:Dynamics have always been a big part for us.
Guest:So when we did, for instance, we did the S&M album with the symphony in the Bay Area, that was like the ultimate power trip where we felt...
Guest:Well, the passion that we share here is the power of music and building and coming back down in dynamics.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So.
Guest:That must have been exciting.
Marc:Oh, super.
Marc:Full orchestra.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you do it?
Marc:Where was it recorded?
Marc:Symphony Hall?
Guest:We tried it in San Francisco.
Guest:We were a little too loud for that place for some reason.
Guest:Basically, a lot of the symphony halls are designed acoustically for acoustic instruments.
Guest:Nice wooden things and strings and some horns.
Guest:So we did it in Berkeley, and it came out quite awesome.
Guest:And a little side note, interesting thing, the artist Skrillex, who was somewhat popular, he was in the audience at that gig.
Guest:He's in the video.
Guest:He's got blonde hair back then, and he was the kid that's trying to stage dive.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Stage dive at the symphony.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:so you're plinking around on the piano with an old lady eating cookies yeah that's right and then uh and then like at what point do uh do you find uh what what were you listening to that started to make you want to play in a band well guitar you know i i realized pretty quickly that if i wanted to be in a band yeah you know
Guest:a uh upright piano is not gonna call you know i i can't push that around i can't jump around i can't do the stuff uh i want to i want to be i want to be the guys in the poster that i had in my room which guys which i had uh aerosmith i had uh you know yeah there was a particular poster uh steven tyler and joe perry together on one microphone and i thought wow
Guest:I don't know who I want to be.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They were both so cool.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I kind of ended up being both.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Singing and playing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, 78 is when it really kicked in.
Guest:Well, it was earlier than that.
Guest:Me and my buddy growing up in the Downey area, we kind of both picked up the guitar at the same time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we would push each other.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hey, I show up at school.
Guest:Hey, I learned this.
Guest:And then he'd go, yeah, but I got this.
Guest:Oh, damn.
Guest:And you go back and, okay, like this total healthy competition of building each other up.
Guest:What happened to that guy?
Guest:We had a falling out.
Guest:It was terrible.
Guest:Over a lake?
Guest:Pretty much.
Guest:It wasn't a girl.
Guest:It wasn't a car.
Guest:It wasn't anything.
Guest:It was like, who's better?
Guest:I think that's what it was.
Guest:Fuck you, man.
Guest:There was another guy that came in and, you know, it's always when you get a triangulated relationship, screws it all up.
Guest:oh yeah he says oh he says he's better than you and then you say better than him and they started a fight and then that was it stupid yeah so like aerosmith though like when like that for that first fucking aerosmith record i listened to that recently that it's so good man so dirty it's pretty raw and dirty yeah that's what i liked about them and my buddy who was talking about john was his name yeah he loved kiss and he liked alice cooper so it was all the makeup kind of thing and
Guest:And I loved this, the raw.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And Aerosmith.
Marc:I never liked the makeup.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Not much.
Marc:I went and saw, like, Rush.
Marc:Remember, they were huge when we were in high school, right?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Who'd you see in high school?
Guest:Well, I think my first concert my brother took me to.
Guest:It was the first concert, ironically, for me was Jethro Tull.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Uriah Heep opening.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:1978.
Guest:A little prog rock for you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then soon after that, it was, you know, I'm all about Aerosmith.
Guest:So he got tickets.
Guest:It was Aerosmith and ACDC.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:78?
Marc:Yep.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:So I saw Bon Scott, and I didn't even really realize it until later.
Guest:I did, too, with Journey.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Nice.
Marc:And I was there to see Journey.
Guest:Yep.
Marc:Just fucked up.
Marc:Like, in retrospect.
Yeah.
Marc:I'm like, I fucking can't believe that I was that guy.
Marc:And I think that I talked to the bass player of Journey, and he said that they were opening for ACDC, but I didn't remember it like that.
Marc:I remember watching Bond and being like, what the fuck is this?
Marc:And then Journey comes on.
Marc:I've admitted it publicly, but I have a hard time admitting it publicly.
Guest:Well, good for you.
Guest:It's okay, man.
Guest:How great is fucking Angus on guitar?
Guest:He's awesome.
Guest:And, you know, when people talk about us and our longevity, they're always saying, you know, so how long are you going to go?
Guest:Are you going to be in your wheelchair and blah, blah, blah.
Guest:And, you know, be like the Rolling Stones.
Guest:Like, well, okay.
Guest:I kind of get that.
Guest:I get the reference to the Rolling Stones, but...
Guest:You know, for us, we're a little more athletic, a little more, I mean, fast songs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really intense.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I say, you know, hey, look at Angus.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If that guy's up there and is God, I don't know how old he is now, a few hundred years old, but he is unbelievable.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm 53.
Marc:You're a month older than me.
Marc:And so he's got to be 60, right?
Marc:Got to be.
Marc:At least.
Guest:At least.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's up there just going.
Guest:I mean, I don't know how he sweats so much.
Guest:There's nothing to him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Have you played with them?
Guest:Yes, we did.
Guest:We did some shows with them.
Guest:And they're unbelievable.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They are frigging powerful.
Guest:And you think.
Marc:uh okay this this is my this is the best song this is my favorite song of theirs and then and then the next one comes like oh my god i forgot that and the whole crowd is singing every word and it's just what a great great live band now but like right around the time it seems that the drive of what you were doing with uh with the early metallica stuff i mean that's like you know that was happening in punk rock music but but you seem like your tastes were pretty mainstream like with me
Marc:So when did that stuff start to enter the world?
Marc:Because we were up against disco, too.
Marc:If you were a sophomore at the same time I was, there was that moment where we had all the old guys.
Marc:We had Zeppelin and Aerosmith and ACDC's first couple of records.
Marc:And then all of a sudden, disco had to be killed.
Marc:That was the main objective.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Kill disco.
Guest:It was kind of.
Guest:Let's join up all the other kinds of music and let's kill the stuff right away.
Marc:It's true.
Marc:And then like new wave came in before punk kind of, you know, in like suburbia, like all of a sudden the Naxx record.
Marc:And then like then then all of a sudden the Sex Pistols or whatever.
Marc:And then American punk.
Marc:But like it was a real problem.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, I totally agree.
Guest:And I remember that specifically to the degree that in my, I guess my high school yearbook, you know, put your quote in there.
Guest:It says, you know, disco sucks and long live rock.
Guest:I mean, that said it all for me right there.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And there was kind of a divide even in the rock world.
Guest:I liked punk.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I liked the new metal that I was discovering in high school.
Guest:Scorpions, Judas Priest.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Things like that that were metal.
Guest:And then I loved the Ramones.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:So I'd had my...
Guest:ramones glasses with my scorpion shirt and i'd walk through the school and be hated by everyone nice didn't fit in anywhere and the rock star was born maybe maybe but you know rebellion started early but i tell you the uh the cross the crossing of those two musics made a lot of sense to me so when i discovered motorhead finally that was kind of the ultimate like okay um
Guest:i remember going to see motorhead somewhere here in la and looking next to me there's a guy with you know a pink mohawk yeah and spikes yeah and i'm sitting here headbanging and we're getting along right like all right maybe we can kill disco together
Guest:you could yeah so that was it huh motorhead was the bridge it really was it really was the you know between the two and i was trying to figure out you know where do i belong because you know i couldn't hang out with the rockers couldn't hang out with the punk rockers either
Marc:It's so weird to grow up when we grew up because like that weird air, that time in music, you know, outside of like the Scorpions.
Marc:And you remember when Van Halen 1 came out because we were like sophomores and that like eruption, like out of every Camaro at those Jensen triaxles was just that fucking solo.
Marc:And you're like, what is that?
Guest:the hood right it's unbelievable i still get blown away by that record yeah it's so alive sounding so fresh and so uh just it's it oozes of youth and and just rebellion yeah it sounds so great and it was fun that was the weird thing there was no darkness in it it was like you know like because david lee roth was almost like a clown and it was like it was fun it was like it was almost like pop music but they had this gnarly fucking guitar thing going
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, it was.
Guest:It was party.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Definitely party music.
Marc:And we were up against Foreigner.
Marc:I mean, there was a lot of shit going on.
Marc:Bob Seger.
Marc:It was all like that whole fuck.
Marc:It all happened when we were in high school.
Marc:We're picking up like this crashing wave of the fucking 60s and 70s.
Marc:And then it's just like an eruption of prog rock garbage happened.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Sticks Grand Illusion.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, okay, there's a good guitar sound on that one.
Marc:No, no, he can play.
Marc:Yeah, on Renegade.
Marc:That was all right.
Marc:That's a good riff.
Marc:No, I'm not going to take anything.
Marc:What's his name?
Marc:Tommy Shaw and the fellas?
Marc:Right, right, right.
Guest:no no i you know i know you were all in the same world but it was it was a weird time there was a there was a lot of music to listen to and a lot of different genres and whatnot going on and yeah super tramp my buddy was kiss i was aerosmith my other buddy was foreigner he said can't believe your favorite band is foreigner oh yeah like yeah it was like the first time yeah yeah again yeah whatever
Guest:it served its purpose where does sabbath fall in oh they were that was before any of that stuff yeah yeah for sure you yeah putting it on uh like i was telling you my brother uh he uh he was older than i he had his own he had a turntable he had all kinds of records and when he would be at school or college or wherever he went yeah uh i was i was playing his albums just soaking it in
Marc:He's so lucky.
Marc:The big brother thing is like, you know, that's the gift.
Marc:Very cool.
Marc:To have the guide.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Sabbath, Sabbath, that first Sabbath record.
Guest:I mean, I just looked at the cover and freaked out and then I started it, you know, and there's the rainstorm and oh my God, it scared me.
Guest:And I loved every minute of it, man.
Yeah.
Guest:So if it's going to scare me, it's definitely going to scare mom.
Marc:Turn it up.
Marc:You're in your brother's room, I picture.
Marc:Just sort of like, I'll just try it.
Marc:You're alone.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:Oh, shit.
Marc:Erase, erase.
Guest:Ah, I can't go back.
Guest:No going back.
Guest:No going back that way.
Marc:No going back.
Marc:It's so weird because I came to a lot of that stuff so much later, and I had to appreciate it as a grown-up, but I fucking love that stuff now.
Marc:Sabbath Four, what a great record that is.
Guest:Yeah, the Volume Four, so cool.
Guest:I mean, there's so many great riffs, and there's so much weird stuff on there, too.
Guest:And you're a riff guy.
Guest:Oh, man.
Marc:Like, you're the riff.
Marc:I mean, in a way, though, right?
Marc:I mean, that's the...
Guest:Well, and under that it says Riff Life.
Marc:Does it really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And Sabbath really kind of like that's what that's about.
Marc:No doubt about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The song was the riff.
Marc:Right.
Guest:If you didn't have a good riff, it wasn't a great song.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It was that.
Guest:And Tony Iommi, the riff master of all time, forever.
Guest:And we all bow to him and try to be him.
Guest:And you've worked with him.
Guest:Yep.
Marc:Was it great when you first met him?
Marc:That must be the amazing thing to grow up when we did and then to be playing with your heroes.
Guest:It is crazy.
Guest:I've got plenty of pictures of me.
Guest:I've got a picture of me standing next to Steven Tyler meeting him for the first time.
Guest:And he's just like, hi.
Guest:And I'm like, no!
No!
Guest:You know, frigging fanboy going nuts.
Guest:And same with Ted Nugent and same with Tony Iommi.
Guest:He was just, but he was the epitome of cool.
Guest:He's writing the ugliest, darkest riff ever.
Guest:And he's, hello, how are you?
Marc:Friendly, super nice guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you and I have something in common and it's fairly public and self-professed anger issues.
Marc:No, I do not.
Marc:Not anymore.
Marc:All gone.
Marc:I was starting to think about the music and getting heady about it, about how when you're younger and the anger is actually active in the music,
Marc:You know, it's relieving.
Marc:And then like for helpfully, as you get older, you at least get that thing wrangled and you can draw from it a little more consciously and a little more like, you know, it doesn't have to drive you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I get what you're saying.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And like I can kind of feel that they like you can still speak to it, but it has more range in a way because it's not crippling you.
Guest:exactly that's a great word crippling yeah instead of crippling it's uh it's just the it's the it's like the evil twin that's just with you all the time right but you know how to deal with it right when did when did it start revealing itself to you you know when you were younger when did you like first realize you were pissed off was there an event about
Guest:i think it it it slowly built i think religion was kind of the start of it that christian scientists i didn't really believe what they were they were teaching me yeah um and it didn't work for me it didn't make any sense well it's kind of a crazy there's some parts of it they're crazy
Guest:yeah yeah don't go to the doctor don't yeah yeah don't go even if you were deathly ill or yeah like both my parents passed cancer yeah in front of me that was probably the most angry i've been you know like later in life
Guest:No, I was 16 when my mom, my mother passed away 13.
Guest:I would say, well, my parents met because of the church and my dad was the equivalent of a minister in the church.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So very active in it.
Guest:And yeah, Sunday school was part of my regiment and, um,
Guest:at that point in wherever we went, it wasn't really... So were your brothers part of it too?
Guest:I mean, like... They were already kind of... They were old enough to not... Oh.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And it was just the three of you guys?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I have a younger sister too.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:So we'd be in Sunday school and it was...
Guest:It just, it wasn't fun.
Guest:It wasn't like it was teeming with lots of youth and kids and having fun.
Guest:And, you know, it was, it was like being at school again and, oh, you got to learn this and learn this.
Guest:At least that was my perception.
Guest:And later on, I kind of realized that that was, that was part of my dad's journey.
Guest:You know, that was what helped keep him on the straight and narrow.
Guest:But when he would talk to me, he would be in scripture, you know, if, you know, I got a question about life, you know, okay, let's read about it.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:And,
Marc:that kind of thing yeah and you're like but wait that doesn't help me should i fuck her
Marc:Is that a yes or a no?
Guest:How do you put a rubber on?
Guest:What is a rubber?
Guest:Any of that stuff.
Guest:I mean, I wasn't asking my dad stuff like that.
Guest:But, you know, whenever you did something wrong, that's what happened.
Marc:You went to scripture.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It kind of seemed like a punishment.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So there's no communication.
Guest:No, not at all.
Guest:But that was his way of communicating.
Guest:And I get it.
Guest:Now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Because me being in recovery and...
Guest:having a certain language sure you know when my kids stumble across something and i just tell them a little story about me or something right and the dad we're not in therapy yeah yeah okay sorry you're right yeah right i'm doing it again right stop that right i'll just listen right listen to you guys you know well that's definitely something you learn in recovery that moment when you when you're hearing someone's story and you get moved by it
Marc:Like that moment where I'm open about it and you just brought it up, but I break that tradition.
Marc:Is that, you know, that, you know, what happened, you know, what was like what happened and what it's like now, that structure.
Marc:But that moment where they gets over and I'm always like, oh, good.
Marc:You know, like it always gets me and it taught me how to be empathetic.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's something that I was, I was lacking as well.
Guest:It was a, it was kind of, I had to fight for what I could get, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And cause I wasn't happy in the family, you know, I couldn't express my anger health in a healthy way, even, you know, I couldn't go against because that would be really, really bad.
Guest:Then I get double the scripture or whatever it was.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:and uh it was it was it felt really elite like an eliteness like we're better than other people because we believe this oh they're they're they believe these lies and these lies and this and that and so it it was a little cultish at least in my mind i know there's plenty of people out there that that religion and religion in general works for them uh
Guest:I understand the concept of a higher power and it does work for me.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But religion itself fucked me up.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And especially that one when I was young.
Marc:Well, if you see your parents or family members get ill and refuse to see a doctor, just that element of it.
Marc:I mean, that's like it's beyond reason.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So the pain of that.
Guest:Well, a lot of things happened around that.
Guest:You know, my father left when I was 13.
Guest:Didn't say goodbye.
Guest:Didn't do anything.
Guest:Just took off.
Guest:And, you know, that's not that doesn't sound Christian to me.
Guest:You know, really what's going on here?
Guest:You know, no contact or.
Guest:About a year later.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:You're 13.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:And then my mom took it really difficult.
Guest:You know, she was, you know, she all of a sudden had to start working.
Guest:You know, she wasn't getting any money in.
Guest:And so she went back to the art that she had done before and helped the family along.
Guest:What kind of art?
Guest:She was a painter.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:But then interior design, she did logos, things like that, which kind of makes sense.
Guest:Like graphic design kind of stuff?
Guest:Yeah, graphic design.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then, yeah, she got sick with cancer, and we watched her pass away in front of us.
Guest:No medicine.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:The religion, uh, talks about, you know, if you acknowledge that you're ill, that's part of letting in, you know, the, the thing that will, will make you ill.
Guest:So not so much, I guess, you know, it sounds like denial to me, but not, not allowing that truth in, you know, keeping a positive approach to it and sure he'll, you know, healing thyself and through the higher power and all that.
Guest:And it, it,
Guest:it didn't seem to be working.
Marc:What barometer do they use to judge that as working after certain... I would think that after a number of people pass away in a community, eventually you'd be like, maybe we'll go to medicine.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Well, you know, at least...
Guest:What I believe now, and it's just what I believe, it's not gospel whatsoever, is, you know, higher power gave us knowledge on how to, you know, help ourselves.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Yeah, so that made sense to me, but, you know, her passing made me really pissed.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Made me really pissed.
Guest:At religion?
Guest:Yeah, well, not just that, but...
Guest:At, you know, my father leaving and, you know, causing that to happen.
Guest:You know, I blamed that.
Guest:And then what what did I do wrong?
Guest:What what could I have done?
Guest:You know, I'm the man of the house at 13.
Guest:And, you know, just a lot of a lot of things that I had to work through.
Marc:Yeah, you had to excavate all that grief and anger.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:Sad, the pain.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Ugh.
Guest:Tons of it.
Guest:And I tell you, music was the thing.
Guest:That's always where I would go.
Guest:I could escape to that.
Guest:It made me feel better.
Guest:It made me...
Guest:uh it was speaking it was it was speaking the words that i didn't know how to say and it was uh uh it was just uh it was it was it was an escape i could put the headphones on and be in a better place sure and when did the when the booze start
Guest:Yeah, that started when I moved in with my brother.
Guest:After your mom passed?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And your dad, did you resume communication with him?
Guest:I was not in that place.
Guest:I was not.
Guest:My sister was, and she was able to reconcile and go live with him, so...
Guest:uh through my uh half a junior and senior year moved schools and lived with my brother that's when the music really started kicking in yeah and that's when i would go watch other musicians locally and that's where you know first beers kind of showed up like here have a beer you know and
Guest:And then along with the smell of the burning amps and all of that stuff, the smell of the beer was also great.
Guest:And it just kind of fit in with everything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then the first band, how old were you?
Guest:Well, I was...
Guest:Yeah, that was probably my junior year.
Guest:It was just before my mom passed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I got in a band.
Guest:It was called Obsession.
Guest:And we've had a long list of cool cover songs that we were doing.
Guest:You know, me and the Velos brothers and a guy named Jim.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We were in their garage in Downey.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we would just play all night and have fun.
Guest:We'd do Thin Lizzy songs, Robin Trower.
Guest:We had Black Sabbath, UFO.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Man, a huge list.
Guest:Good list.
Guest:We had about 40 songs that we could play.
Guest:We played maybe three parties.
Marc:yeah max yeah but not a dance band per se not so much it was hanging around the keg and you know yeah yeah man so now when you started because it seems to me that like they're they're another question i had in listening to the record and listening to all this stuff is that there seems to be themes
Marc:that move through metal and through your music.
Marc:And the sort of pushing back against dogma, religion, authority, and that stuff has always been a rebellious thing in rock and roll.
Marc:But this comes from a specific experience.
Marc:Your distrust of religion and order.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:And I think that you guys...
Guest:sort of established a lot of the themes like you know despair paranoia well all that fun stuff we all like to live in and i tell you what it is is if i can get it out of my head yeah it makes it better
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Better out than in, because if I can put it into a song and question it, you know, I have no answers.
Guest:I got a lot of questions.
Guest:And actually, I think I people when when someone identifies with your question, it's it's better than them telling you the answer.
Guest:Actually, right.
Guest:You know,
Guest:I identify with that question.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Let's find out together.
Guest:Or let's just ponder it together.
Guest:That's a higher power showing up, at least for me.
Guest:So when the fans understand that question as well, it makes me feel okay.
Guest:And that's all I really kind of want, is to feel okay and feel validated and feel like I belong.
Guest:So that's what these lyrics do.
Marc:Isn't that funny, though, about how...
Marc:Because my dad wasn't absent, but he was certainly detached and volatile.
Marc:That's absent.
Guest:It is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know that I fully processed it.
Marc:You know, like that, the selfishness of it.
Marc:You know, that sort of like, you know, one way, you know, either, you know, if they're gone, they're gone.
Marc:But then there's the other kind that sort of erase you while you're there.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Totally.
Guest:I mean, it's, it's tearing you down.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's not like, okay, they're not there.
Guest:I'm starting to heal.
Guest:I'm starting to process because it's not still happening.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because they're just always there and you're reacting to like reacting to an absence and then, or is probably a little different than reacting to like, I don't know what he's going to do.
Marc:What the fuck's going to happen?
Marc:Totally.
Guest:And living in it, you know, and it's not, uh, you're not alone there because I think a lot of that generation, uh,
Guest:Gosh, it was, it was kind of not, I don't want to say passive aggressive, but it was.
Guest:Aggressive, aggressive.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Why am I laughing?
Guest:I'm sorry for laughing.
Guest:No, it's.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You didn't know what was going to happen.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was the thing, you know, that, that, you know, cliche, wait till your father gets home.
Guest:It's like.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Oh shit.
Guest:Nothing scared me more than that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Cause he was the dealer of punishment.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, all the stuff that I had done throughout the day, mom checked it off and wrote it down and then handed it to him.
Guest:And you know, what a fucking shitty job to do.
Guest:You come home after working your ass off and you get handed a list of all the shit that happened and you got to deal out some whatever lashes with the belt or whatever, you know, in my case.
Guest:So yeah,
Marc:that sucked i'm sure it sucked for him yeah uh and it sucked for me yeah and probably for my mom because she couldn't deal with us and you know it's tough it's tough and i like i never got it together to have kids either but i imagine like because my brother has three kids i imagine that you as a father you've got to sort of approach this with sort of like i don't have a template for this i got no they got no good experience around this particular job so you got to re-navigate
Marc:Well, I have to ask questions.
Guest:I got a lot of good buddies that we're in the same boat and it's okay to ask for help.
Guest:It's like, man, my kid's doing this.
Guest:Have you ever experienced that?
Guest:And they're like, yeah.
Guest:So there's good stuff like that that I don't think my father did.
Guest:I don't think he sat around with his buddies going...
Guest:gosh my son's having trouble with you know math and he's lashing out and yeah you know um so i think the template let you talked about i think i had a template of what not to do right but i didn't really have the template of what to do so it was at least a good start yeah i'm gonna break this cycle i don't want i don't want this happening but i don't want to go the exact opposite way overcompensate to happen yeah well yeah and how's it going it's it's going better how many you got
Guest:uh kids yeah i got three oh yeah three beautiful children uh yeah beautiful wife we've been you know first and only wife been married for over 19 years and we've got an 18 year old daughter who's in college now i've got a 16 year old boy yeah uh who's
Guest:completely awesome and very expressive i have a a daughter a younger daughter who is 14 and you know she's a girl in high school first year high school and there's a lot of a lot of questions a lot of you know slow processing going on and she's she's right in the middle of it uh-huh um but she is awesome i mean i have three
Guest:healthy beautiful great kids well that's that's good i'm correct congratulations thank you but i imagine with that last one it's a lot of like well maybe i'll talk to your mom about that you know she gravitates to me oh yeah there's something i tell you yeah between a father and a daughter there's some there's some magic yeah uh not that it isn't with my son but right he'll go to mom oh really that's just that's just kind of how it is i think i think i was supposed to be yeah yes that's great
Guest:But yeah, growing up, watching them learn and discover and love music their own way.
Guest:Are they introducing you to stuff?
Guest:Oh, totally.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Whether I like it or not.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Good stuff, bad stuff, and just out there stuff.
Yeah.
Guest:i love watching them enjoy music that's that's the coolest thing yeah where they just they get so into it it's like oh man that's what it's about yeah i don't care what it sounds like but look what it's doing to you yeah that is cool and when you like when you play now i mean like you like you said are you when are you guys going on tour
Marc:We kind of are already.
Guest:Yeah, it's I don't know.
Guest:It's like it's slowly happening.
Guest:But I think next year is when we really start touring.
Marc:And do you have to get into shape?
Guest:Yeah, I have to.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:No, but I mean, like, like, I imagine it's quite a process for what you guys do.
Guest:Mental, physical, spiritual, all that.
Guest:Mind, body, got to get into shape.
Guest:Because when you're out there, there's a lot of things coming at you.
Guest:And at least for myself, surround myself with people that get what I need.
Guest:They're not yes men by any means.
Guest:They call me out on shit, which I need.
Marc:You bring sober guys with you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I need that.
Guest:yeah and uh i i need someone on the tour where at 3 a.m you can take a knock at the door yeah and let me in yeah yeah and like not so much talk me off the ledge but yeah you know what's going on yeah yeah yeah i'm still up yeah
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:What's going on?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I feel like doing this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I'm fucking bored or anything.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:Whatever it is.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:Absolutely, dude.
Guest:So age-appropriate touring for us looks like two weeks at a time.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Two weeks out, two weeks at home.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, trying to balance both loves in our lives.
Guest:And, you know, gosh.
Guest:How long have you been married?
Guest:Yeah, 19 years.
Guest:So she went through all the shit with you?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:She walked through fire right next to me.
Marc:that's amazing yeah i i threw her in the fire a few times too well how are you not going to do that yeah that because that's what that that's what the brain does like and i notice it even now it's sort of like i feel like shit so now i'm just gonna rope a dope her emotionally you know as she tries to help and then you're just sort of like nope nope and then when right when they break you're like yeah now look where we are
Guest:yay yeah look what i did to you too yeah you know oh man yeah someone trying to help you and you making them think they're crazy yeah you know nope i i never said that or i wasn't doing that or no don't know who she is yeah uh no i'm i don't know whose bottle that is yeah yeah yeah you know yeah and they just take it until they can't and they're i imagine you had that moment where you're like this is all gonna go
Guest:And that's the best thing that ever happened to me.
Guest:When the, when the, you know, the two me's collided, you know, the road me and the home me collided, man, it was, it was amazing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The most horrible feeling.
Guest:And, you know, now the best thing that ever happened.
Guest:oh good for you man good for you that's great well hats off to her because she put up with the shit and she she's been a good mentor for me in life too uh she's very balanced very even keeled and it drives me nuts yeah uh and you know the opposites do attract and at some point we we just had to realize that you know we're we got to respect each other because we can help each other sure
Guest:I can help you loosen up and be a little stupid, and you can help me get my shit together and be responsible.
Marc:And obviously you had the love there that was deep enough to survive it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's the fucking beautiful thing.
Marc:For sure.
Guest:And then both our backgrounds, you know, not dissimilar, but different.
Guest:Oh, she comes from the shit?
Guest:Different, yeah.
Guest:You know, kind of invisible kid.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Invisible kid and not really...
Marc:not really cared for yeah oh yeah so yeah so it matched up and once you get healthy you get healthy together it works out yep it's that weird challenge of like you know kind of like having to impress this father that stinks in your head like it's fucking ridiculous uh but like every man has that it's so weird i used to do a joke about it was never got a laugh i used to say i think that every father-son relationship on some level is a battle to the death
Yeah.
Guest:And until you both die, it's going to go on.
Marc:Yeah, that's right.
Marc:You get to a certain age where you're like, you better go first.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's so dark.
Guest:Oh, it's crazy.
Guest:I tell you, I still battle with them.
Guest:It's dumb.
Guest:Voices appear in my head and it's like, wait, who's that?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Who's talking to me?
Guest:You got to separate them out.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Does that come into the songwriting at all?
Guest:Oh, hell yeah.
Guest:I mean, it's, again, part of the therapy of music for me.
Marc:And have you made all your amends from the past?
Guest:Again and again and again.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:I think I'm pretty clean.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:I think I'm pretty clean right now, but, you know, there's always something.
Marc:I talked to you.
Marc:You know who I had in here?
Marc:I had Scott Ian in here.
Marc:Awesome.
Marc:He's a sweet guy.
Marc:Oh, he's awesome.
Marc:And I had to load up on that metal.
Guest:He's quite a character, man.
Marc:Yeah, and a sweet guy.
Guest:Oh, man.
Marc:Very earnest dude.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:He's very down to earth.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He loves his music.
Guest:He knows a lot about it.
Guest:And he's got a great memory and a lot of cool stories.
Marc:And also he spoke so highly of that, that I guess you guys did some things together, the big four.
Marc:And like he was like, it was almost like moved me to tears when he was talking about the, you know, it was, who was it?
Marc:You, Anthrax, Megadeth and Slayer.
Marc:And you're all backstage together.
Marc:And he had this moment where like, it was like, it teared me up a little bit that you guys were like, you could all be in your own success and be together and it'd be all right.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:And the fact that, you know, it blew my mind.
Guest:It really started with the kind of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction idea.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, getting nostalgic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and thinking, my God.
Guest:look at all the people that have helped us along the way and look who are still around.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Let's say thank you to them.
Guest:And so the big four was kind of that thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We're all still playing after 30, whatever it was, 32 years.
Guest:Let's go do a gig together.
Guest:I mean, why shouldn't we?
Guest:Let's celebrate the fact that we're still alive and playing music that we love.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, I think the other thing was the new wave of British heavy metal.
Guest:That's all I ever hear about.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No album, blah, blah, blah, you know.
Guest:What about the big four?
Guest:No one knows the big four.
Guest:Come on, let's make it known.
Guest:Let's make some history here and let people know and put a mark there that the big four was and is a force to be reckoned with.
Marc:And you delivered the goods.
Guest:Yeah, we loved it.
Guest:We had a blast.
Guest:And Mustaine and you guys are good?
Guest:Yeah, there's no reason to not be good.
Guest:At this point, we've all freaking fell off the wagon.
Guest:We've all gone into the ditch.
Guest:We've all got back on track.
Guest:We've all learned from our stuff.
Guest:And at the end of the day, it's...
Marc:it's just journeys everyone's doing a different journey and why would you hold a grudge with someone or or vice versa you know and you all been through tragedies like you got you know you got you know real rock and roll tragedies you lost a cliff and all that stuff and your own accidents and shit i mean you guys really live the life and i imagine when you survive it at a certain point all whatever that personal bullshit is gotta fall away
Guest:I, you know, I've seen some kind of light around that because I think the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame was a part of that realization that, you know, when we were up there and seeing, you know, Ozzy is sitting at one table and the rest of Black Sabbath at the other table and they don't want to jam together and they're being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Guest:So we go up and we play a song.
Guest:We play Black Sabbath songs for them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that was beautiful for us.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was sad to see that.
Guest:I'd rather see you guys play.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Whatever it is.
Guest:Oh, yeah, they can't get past it.
Guest:Put it away, please.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:I get it's hard to get past stuff, but there's stuff in my life I thought I could never get over.
Guest:Like what?
Guest:Oh, just fights with Lars about shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, we're brothers.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I'm thinking...
Guest:You know, this is it.
Guest:No frigging way I'm doing, you know, I can't get past this.
Guest:I can never look at him again.
Guest:And then a month later, you're writing hardwired together, you know, and you're making the best record of your life.
Guest:It's like, dude, it works.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Just see past that shit.
Guest:Go big picture, whatever it is you need to do.
Guest:You can get past the most unbelievable places that, you know, you think you can never get out of.
Marc:Well, it's a choice, right?
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:That's the weird thing that you realize.
Guest:And my wife will tell me that it's a choice.
Guest:She'll say, Hey, you know, I'll, you know, it's over.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Forget it.
Guest:I can't work together.
Guest:And she'll go, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:You know, you say that now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:This is, I feel it.
Guest:This is, I can't, I can't get over this.
Guest:And,
Guest:And it's unbelievable what you can get over.
Guest:So seeing that or like the Van Halen's up there or the, you know, Blondie had a moment where it was like, Oh my God.
Guest:Or, you know, you look at like Roger Waters and, uh, I just talked to him.
Guest:Oh, come on, you guys, you know, what's such beautiful music.
Marc:And you know, you feel it too, dude, when you're sitting there with them and just like you now, when you have that moment, uh,
Marc:where you're like, nope, no, like, on some level, because we're men, all we want to do is just cry.
Marc:You know, it's a sadness, like, it's like almost childish.
Marc:Very, yeah.
Marc:And like, you know, if we just fucking bawled a minute, quietly, it'd be like, we'd be all right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's like holding on to this.
Guest:It's a sad sort of like childish thing, man.
Guest:You are.
Guest:You're stuck in that moment of that and you're reliving it.
Guest:That's resentment.
Guest:And you can't, you just can't.
Guest:But if, you know, what works for me with Lars, we just sit down and just start talking about our kids.
Guest:That's where we'll start.
Guest:And that's a completely loving place to start.
Guest:Right.
Guest:We'll talk about that.
Guest:And then all of a sudden, it's like, fuck, dude.
Guest:You know, I'm sorry.
Guest:I did this.
Guest:And then all of a sudden, you're back.
Guest:Right there.
Guest:Like that.
Guest:Like a guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, ego deflated.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Out of the way.
Guest:Fear done out of the way.
Guest:And now you can move on.
Marc:Well, what are, like, what are, because I always wonder that about bands, because I know that the relationship has to get strained, but even when I saw Deep Purple inducted, and Richie's not, you know.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's like, what?
Marc:Why?
Marc:What could be the fucking, at this age?
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know?
Marc:But, like, I guess these are, it's emotional.
Marc:It's not creative.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right?
Right.
Guest:man it is such a wall it's such a block it's such a uncreative thing you know to be stuck in that prison of resentment you know uh and it yeah okay the rock and roll hall of fame it's not like you're being led into heaven or something right right just an acknowledgement of your stuff that you've done together but the fact that you can't be there for that at the same time is sad it is sad right yeah yeah
Marc:Let's get back to music for a minute because I wanted to talk about the role of a producer.
Marc:I talked to Keith Richards about, what was his name, Jimmy Miller.
Marc:There's a shift.
Marc:The Black Album was a shift for you, right?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:With the producer.
Marc:Definitely.
Guest:and like who was producing before was it you guys i mean like who was like what was the big change that you had to open yourself up to when you you make a decision to change your your sound in a way yeah i think it was us us driving this driving the boat yeah uh fleming rasmussen who worked on the first albums except kill them all uh he was the engineer that could get sounds he was right you know a semi-producer right you know he'd say not
Guest:so good you know right and we were okay well fuck you yeah yeah it's good yeah uh we were driving that ship until you know in justice for all we realized that you know we need some help yeah the album doesn't sound great songs are good but you know we're mixing this record as we're on the monsters of rock tour our ears are blown out right we can't decide what sounds good and doesn't anymore yeah
Marc:um so after that we decided we need we need some help yeah i need a producer and that's when bob rock came into the picture and he was like a a kind of a a guy who dealt with it the the type of music you guys respected yeah you know we liked his sounds that was the main thing you know you actually have like there's a physical even if you're in your car
Marc:like the the metallica music it's like it's hitting you that's the best place yeah car yeah the best that's the best place to listen to music in general yeah because you're like you're a hero yeah yeah like you know it's like oh you're in it yeah you're living in you know it's in a space yeah but there's not it doesn't have to be anyone else in it that's right the best time you're on stage right in there no matter what you're playing but did he like like how did he work like what was it that
Guest:I was able to explain to him what I was after, and he was able to get that, put it into whatever knob language.
Guest:Right, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But for me, I knew what sound I wanted, and I've always been chasing it, and I still am.
Guest:The next record's going to sound better, I'll tell you.
Guest:The one after the one you just put out?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That one's going to have a better guitar sound.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It is.
Guest:Because, you know, as a riff guy, it's like I'm chasing the unreachable sound probably.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But all those records coming up to then, I was trying to get what I wanted, and he helped me get it a little more.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So the layering, I mean, the harmonies, and vocally for sure.
Guest:That's when I think Bob Rock...
Guest:uh really really helped me uh uh is in the vocal department you know he no one ever before would would say you know that doesn't sound very good or how about trying this yeah that doesn't that word doesn't sing right right uh how about this harmony try this and so i you know i remember the when he said uh
Guest:okay at the end of this part while there's a guitar solo going on just throw a couple ad libs out there it's like what what's it what's that you mean like you know talking come on baby or something you know what what am i supposed to say yeah you know yeah and that was that was when i realized man you're you're kind of closed-minded here you need to kind of open up a little bit and
Guest:you know like i think the end of sandman was something you know you know often never never let doing you know just some things that kind of tail off and yeah you know just be loose like you're you know playing live yeah yeah you know okay now i get it yeah i mean i think everyone that we've worked with has tried to get us to sound like we do live you know yeah well that's it that's the big business the live
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, trying to, I don't know if it's actually, you know, mistakes and all, but that feeling of it's on, you know, you're gelling it.
Guest:Everything is electric.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And having, trying to recreate that in the studio is, is not super easy, especially when you're working in there for over a year, you know?
Marc:Right, exactly.
Marc:And a lot of times you're not there at the same time, I imagine, or you're doing tracks on overdubbing and whatever.
Marc:You're not in the room together.
Marc:I know people record like that, but it must be sort of a chore.
Guest:Yeah, well, we do do that.
Guest:We write and record the basic tracks all together.
Guest:And on this record, especially having Greg there at the beginning, we were able to get great sounds.
Guest:Greg Fiddleman, the producer, along with Lars and myself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was able to get great sounds at the beginning.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because we did it at HQ, which is our home sanctuary.
Guest:And it's your label, right?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In America it is.
Guest:So everything we played was album quality.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So there are guitar tracks on there that were first, second, third take possibly.
Guest:Some are overdubs, some are not.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was just a newer and different way.
Guest:That's probably the most different on this album compared to the other albums.
Guest:In terms of working?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Now, when you look out at the crowd now, who do you see?
Marc:You see guys our age?
Guest:I do.
Guest:I see guys our age.
Guest:I see guys older.
Guest:What blows my mind is I see young girls in the front.
Guest:And they're in the front.
Guest:I remember when I'd go to any gig, there's no way girls weren't...
Guest:they weren't even near the front right because it was too brutal right but but i tell you whether it's how they do the barricades now or whatnot and we have our own special way but uh it's less brutal so you get all kinds up there i mean i see father sons up in the front and daughters right it's it's anybody and everybody everybody is certainly welcome
Guest:and no one – there's not like a – it used to be here's your dress code, show up, and that's that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Now – Loosened up a little?
Guest:A little bit.
Guest:You got guys just come off of work, and they're whatever, still got their handcuffs on their briefcase.
Guest:And they're at the gig, and you've got guys that just –
Guest:whatever just walked in from the you know at the auto shop and you've got kids and grandpas and three generations of people showing up that's how long you've been at it that's great beautiful it is it's super beautiful and what i get to do from up there is look out and watch these people enjoy the music and see how they react how did they how are they taking this in and why the hell do you like this song really you know we're playing master of puppets and you're a little girl out there going master
Guest:you know what is it what is it for you and it doesn't matter she's there and she's enjoying it and but you do ask those questions i do all the time are you sure you like this someone's just fucking with us i know it i'm gonna wake up and this is all gonna be a huge punk oh that's interesting yourself you've been punked
Marc:But that's the thing about the about the lyrics and the way you write.
Marc:And when you talk about questions and about how much of this stuff is almost a call and response to, you know, these that, you know, those feelings that, you know, that they may be more present when you're younger, but they don't go away.
Marc:And certainly if you grew up with them, with you guys, and now you have kids and stuff, you know, those feelings, you revisit them in almost a fun way.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like, you know, I remember when I wanted to kill everybody.
Marc:When I was your age, I wanted to just kill.
Guest:Now it's just fun.
Guest:Now I only want to kill half the people.
Guest:That's progress, dude.
Guest:That's awesome.
Marc:I would love to see a father and son at your show.
Marc:That must be really kind of touching.
Guest:Oh, it's super cool.
Guest:It's super cool.
Guest:Of course, the kid gets showered with gifts of picks and drumsticks and sweatbands, and here you go.
Guest:Here's Kirk's guitar.
Guest:I'll give it to him.
Marc:He's got it.
Guest:Wait, wait, wait, wait, yeah.
Marc:What was the, you did that album with Lou, right?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:How did, like, you know, that was an interesting thing.
Marc:It was very interesting, no doubt.
Marc:Because, you know, like he, you know, he's definitely, like it was, it makes sense, you know, for him, and I just wonder, how did that come to happen?
Guest:It made sense for us, too.
Guest:At the beginning, it was... I mean, just jamming with anybody, recording with someone else, that was weird.
Guest:And it's Lou Reed.
Guest:What do you mean?
Guest:And our management is in New York.
Guest:We went... I don't know what... I can't remember what we were doing.
Guest:I think it was a... Oh, I know.
Guest:It was...
Guest:So celebrating 25 years of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, we were host of one night and we were picking out artists that had been in the Rock or in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and played.
Guest:And Lou Reed was there and from down the hallway, he yelled, hey, Metallica, I love you guys.
Guest:We should do an album together one day.
Guest:And we're like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Okay, cool.
Guest:All right, Lou.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All right, Lou.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, have another one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then we get a call from management saying, hey, Lou's serious.
Guest:He wants to do an album.
Guest:And we didn't know what to think about it.
Guest:It's like, all right, what's he got in mind?
Guest:They thought that could be a really cool idea.
Marc:You did Sweet Jane live, right?
Marc:Was that what you played live?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:With him?
Marc:Like on that show?
Marc:What was it?
Marc:The award show that you're talking about?
Marc:Didn't you jam with him somewhere?
Marc:Or am I making that up?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:No, that is true.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:Was it Sweet Jane?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's what it was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so that's where it came from.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he was...
Guest:He came to us basically with lyrics from a play that he had written.
Guest:He had all these intense lyrics.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So this was a first for us to sit and write music behind a set of lyrics.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because that's not how we operate.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was really cool.
Guest:And it was...
Guest:was you know it was definitely a in the studio jam kind of feel uh-huh uh and lou was from that school right ilk of you know back in the 60s or 70s you jammed it you recorded it and then you're done right you know yeah yeah hey let's try that again nope they're like i just did it like okay okay i get it right right lou has spoken it's an interesting album it's a good record
Guest:I think it's super interesting.
Guest:And as a standalone piece in our career, I think I'm super grateful that we got to do it.
Guest:Lou and his, that time of life, you know, we learned a lot from him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was a pretty, pretty cool guy.
Guest:And let me tell you, if you, you know, rock and roll, rebelliousness, it was in him.
Guest:There's no doubt about it.
Guest:What'd you learn?
Guest:Like in the sense of, like, what'd you take away from it?
Guest:Because I'm a huge Lou Reed fan.
Guest:Well,
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The, Hey, I sang it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's a moment.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I can't do that again.
Guest:He would say that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I can't do that again.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:You're like, what?
Guest:Is that okay?
Guest:Is that okay to do that?
Guest:He just left, you know?
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So being in the moment, very much in the moment.
Guest:Um, let's see what else.
Guest:Oh, when you're doing interviews.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When, when the interviewee starts asking questions, look out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And especially if it's Lou Reed, cause man, he tore some people apart.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:He, you know, he definitely had some trust issues.
Guest:He didn't trust a lot of people.
Guest:So he would grill you until you crumbled and then he could trust you.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's just like that dynamic we were talking about earlier where you get down to my level.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:I want to see a little weaker.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:A little cocky right now.
Guest:Very true.
Guest:Very true.
Guest:But he was a real honest guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A real honest guy.
Guest:And I really appreciate the fact that he got us out of our little box of metal, you know?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you take his music into consideration ever earlier?
Guest:Were you a fan?
Guest:No, I wasn't.
Guest:I know Cliff Burton was certainly a fan, Velvet Underground.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Cliff liked a lot of crazy psycho stuff.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He seemed like a pretty special guy.
Marc:Oh, absolutely.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, look, man, I hope I did all right.
Marc:You did awesome.
Marc:I didn't ask you any questions, did I?
Marc:Well, yeah, it's funny because, like, some guys, like, I just like to have a conversation, you know.
Marc:But, like, I had Neil Young in here.
Marc:And, you know, I was just wrestling with, like, you know, what am I going to start with?
Marc:You know, I like Neil Young.
Marc:But, you know, when you have a musician over, you know, especially at a certain age, you know those five records.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But then there's 50.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then you're like, what am I going to fucking do?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, like, I...
Guest:I love that, because I totally get you.
Marc:But I figure, I got this little 58 Fender Deluxe amp here, and I know he plays through things like that.
Marc:So I'm like, I'm gonna start with gear, and we'll just open it up, and we'll see where it goes.
Marc:And he gets in there, and I basically go like, yeah, it's a 58 Deluxe.
Marc:I think you play with one of those.
Marc:And he looks over, and he goes like, nah, I don't know, I guess.
Marc:And I'm like, I guess I knew he knew he was he was doing that thing, though.
Marc:He was like, I'm going to I'm going to break him a little bit.
Marc:And then like something happened.
Marc:And it was like, I don't know if it was an interview or what, but he was having a great time.
Marc:And a lot of times with these things, people who are fans of people, you know, they already know everything.
Marc:So if they can just hear the guy as the guy, they're like, Neil does Pilates?
Marc:You know, that's the thing.
Marc:Really?
Guest:He does.
Guest:He brought that up.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:How long you got sober?
Guest:15.
Guest:15.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Days?
Guest:Oh, geez.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It feels good, right?
Guest:Don't even joke about that.
Guest:No, you can't, right?
Guest:15 years.
Guest:Oh, it feels great.
Guest:Good, man.
Guest:It feels really good.
Guest:And it's a daily thing.
Marc:The daily reprieve.
Marc:Absolutely.
Guest:One day at a time.
Marc:Loving it.
Marc:Yeah, good, man.
Marc:And again, I love the new record, and I liked listening to the old records.
Marc:It was great talking to you.
Marc:Thank you, Mark.
Marc:Appreciate it.
Thank you.
Marc:See that?
Marc:I think we covered some stuff.
Marc:Found some commonality.
Marc:Worked it out.
Marc:Again, the new Metallica record.
Marc:Hardwired Self-Destruct, available now.
Marc:I'd like to thank James for coming by.
Marc:It was fun.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:Sorry, no guitar playing.
Marc:I'm waiting for my flap to take on the tip of my finger.
Marc:Boomer lives!
Marc:Boomer lives!
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