Episode 766 - Shane Mauss
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck, buddies?
Marc:What the fuckineers?
Marc:What the fuckadelics?
Guest:How's it going?
Guest:That was my psychedelic noise.
Guest:Now I keep doing it.
Guest:That's my impression of nitrous.
Marc:You ever taken a hit of nitrous and then you sort of, you kind of go out and then reality comes back like that.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:What is happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast, WTF.
Marc:Thank you for listening.
Marc:There is a point to me addressing mind-altering business.
Marc:My guest today is Shane Moss.
Marc:He's a comic.
Marc:He is touring his show.
Marc:He is a psychedelic explorer.
Marc:He's on tour right now, and he's still got 20 cities to go, and he'll be setting up some international dates.
Marc:You can go to shanemoss.com for dates and locations.
Marc:That's shanemoss.com.
Marc:A psychedelic explorer.
Marc:There's a whole new approach to it these days.
Marc:It's not all Grateful Dead music and dancing around in a circle quickly, making the people around you uncomfortable.
Marc:I've talked to a lot of people.
Marc:A lot of it's going around, man.
Marc:Ayahuasca.
Marc:Is is is the new brain cleansing.
Marc:If you want to sort of cleanse your psychic palate of all your stress and anxiety and just hit reset.
Marc:There's some part of me that wants to buy into that.
Marc:The dumb little drug addict in me is like, yeah, maybe maybe maybe ayahuasca is the thing that will have all the answers for a little while.
Marc:The Carnegie Hall posters, which no one had any time to buy at Carnegie Hall, are now available at WTFpod.com.
Marc:They're hand-printed, hand-screened, signed posters.
Marc:Very old school, kind of like the 50s, groovy jazz posters.
Marc:I love the poster.
Marc:They're up.
Marc:They're available.
Marc:They're $40.
Marc:And they're beautiful.
Marc:And they're worth it.
Marc:And I'll sign them.
Marc:All right.
Marc:WTFPod.com.
Marc:New Carnegie Hall posters.
Marc:Go get them if you want them.
Marc:Nice Christmas gift.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Moving on.
Marc:The best trip I ever had was when me and my roommate Lance...
Marc:took some shrooms in the middle of the day, which is the only time to do it, as far as I'm concerned, because if you do it at night, it can get scary outside.
Marc:If you don't have to travel too far, maybe you're in a concert situation, but if you're going to trip at night and you're alone...
Marc:You better have the fortitude to handle it because people become sweaty and creepy pretty quick.
Marc:Their faces get large and they have bad intentions and they're surrounding you and they can see that you're having a hard time swallowing and you're sweating chemicals.
Marc:And then you end up locked in your apartment or your house just for safety as you bounce off the fucking walls on ancient hallucinogenic substances.
Marc:But one time in Boston, me and my buddy Lance took mushrooms who just set out to walk to the aquarium from Fenway.
Marc:All the way down, just walking, enjoying the day.
Marc:Beautiful sunlight out.
Marc:Everything was crisp.
Marc:Everybody was one thing.
Marc:It was all perfect.
Marc:We were all just sort of kind of humming at the same frequency.
Marc:There was no distance between me and a rock and that guy across the street.
Marc:Everything was connected, moving through the day.
Marc:And then we got down to Faneuil Hall.
Marc:And the bricks there, the old bricks, they were kind of a problem.
Marc:It made it very difficult to walk because...
Marc:Everything was tilting and shaking and moving around.
Marc:Those bricks were dancing because they're ancient bricks.
Marc:And I was connected to them and they were not happy.
Marc:They were all smushed up next to each other and they had been for centuries and they wanted to be free.
Marc:So they were shaking.
Marc:And I remember we were walking, we needed something to drink badly because you get that weird thirst when you're tripping.
Marc:You get that weird thirst and you're thirsty in every cell of your body and nothing will taste better than a cold beer.
Marc:And we stood there at a bar that was sort of half outside and they were cutting oysters open.
Marc:They were shucking oysters and we were sitting there having a pint of beer watching them shuck those oysters and we were tripping balls.
Marc:And I swear in that moment, they popped those shells open and I saw those oysters take their last prehistoric breath, a breath that is part of a legacy of millions of years of shellfish with weird, wavy, deformed shells just gasping.
Marc:That was upsetting.
Marc:That was upsetting.
Marc:There was no doubt that it was upsetting.
Marc:I remember we saw some weird, dirty business on the common, some surveillance situation.
Marc:There were cops involved, and we were going to solve the mystery, but we didn't want to chime in because we were tripping balls.
Marc:And then we kept moving, and we got to the...
Marc:entrance of the aquarium and we just wanted to go look at fish that seemed like a decent thing to do to just stick your nose up against the glass to see the dinosaurs move around in the liquid and then we were sitting there and two things happened that were jarring and memorable not that you want some meat you need some meat not that guy he didn't come up but i did see a seagull with a
Marc:leftover with the remains of an eaten chicken wing in its beak and i thought that's an indicator of the end of all things and then a blind man approached us with a cane he was walking with his cane and he said could someone help me could somebody help me and me and my friend lance were tripping balls and trying not to laugh we wanted to help out but when you're tripping balls
Marc:Everything is funny or maybe one thing is funny and it just lasts a really long time and infects everything else with the funny.
Marc:And then you're just on the the humming frequency of everything and all things.
Marc:And then just above it, you're riding the laughing frequency that just hums along on top of it.
Marc:And it's hard to stop.
Marc:But we pulled it together.
Marc:We sucked it up and we said, where do you need to go, pal?
Marc:Where can we walk you?
Marc:And he goes, I need to get tickets to the whale watch.
Marc:Oh, that was rich.
Marc:That was rough.
Marc:The old blind guy is asking me and my roommate, Lance, and we're tripping balls on shrooms to walk him to the ticket office for the whale watch.
Marc:But there was something in our hearts that realized that this was a serious situation.
Marc:Who are we to judge?
Marc:What do we know what people can feel?
Marc:Maybe we should close our fucking eyes and get on a boat and see the whales, right?
Marc:This guy was much different than us in the way that he operated at a different frequency.
Marc:all the time his senses were jacked all the time he just wanted to listen to the water and feel the air and feel the breeze and feel the motion of the water underneath the boat and maybe hear that whale that dinosaur blow some water out of its spout hole and then feel the massive connection of that to him to his ears to all things and that's without the fucking mushrooms so we did that for him we walked him and he got his tickets and
Marc:and then we went out and went in... Then we went in to the aquarium and pressed our faces up against a giant circular tank at the center of the Boston Aquarium and watched all levels of fish just move through their fucking frequency.
Marc:We were outside of it, but we were definitely in it.
Guest:See...
Marc:I told you about that tripping story.
Marc:There were some bad ones where I decided the acid wasn't working, so I took more.
Marc:Never a great idea.
Marc:But there's only a handful of times in my life, and I can't say that I ever took any journeys that were enlightening.
Marc:Yet, poetically, in recounting that story,
Marc:It was.
Marc:It was.
Marc:Sometimes your memories are what you have.
Marc:Sometimes post-trip is where you figure it out.
Marc:During the trip, you think it may not ever end and that you'll always have that cathartic sort of enlightened truth kind of humming around you as you sweat.
Marc:But it's when you come down where you kind of extrapolate from actual things that happened that may add to the poetry or wisdom of your life.
Marc:But I don't buy it's a reset button.
Marc:I don't buy that it's a cure for depression.
Marc:But what do I know?
Marc:It's been a long time.
Marc:Do you know what I'm saying?
Marc:Shane Moss knows.
Marc:Shane Moss knows.
Marc:Shane Moss is a comic I'd known for a while, and we talked, man.
Marc:You know, he got me, literally, when we were talking about this, talking to a guy, talking about tripping, and talking about hallucinogens, and talking about them in a logical, almost scientific way, it got me kind of squirrely and excited.
Marc:And I felt that weird tingle.
Marc:But...
Marc:But I just listened.
Marc:So this is me and Shane Moss talking about that.
Marc:As I said before, he's on tour right now.
Marc:He's got about 20 cities left to go, and he'll be setting up some international dates soon.
Marc:So go to shanemoss.com for dates and locations.
Marc:That's shanemoss.com.
Marc:This is me and Shane talking.
Marc:Shane Moss.
Marc:Is that it?
Marc:Yep.
Marc:Moss.
Marc:Yeah, thanks for asking.
Marc:M-A-U-S-S.
Guest:Yeah, I usually remember to tell people ahead of time because everyone always screws it up.
Guest:What do they get?
Guest:I get a lot of mouse, which I actually think is how it's maybe supposed to be pronounced because I know there's German people that have the same pronunciation and that's how they... Mouse?
Guest:They say mouse?
Guest:Yeah, and it's a German name, so I'm pretty sure I've been saying it wrong my whole life.
Marc:German name, but you have no identification with German relatives or anything else that just kind of came down on you?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:No German grandmother?
Guest:I think I'm like 75% Irish, actually.
Guest:I'm only like 25% German.
Guest:What's that name?
Guest:Leppert.
Guest:Leppert?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's Irish?
Guest:I guess.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Who's that, your mom's side?
Guest:Yeah, that's my mom's side.
Marc:A lot of Irish people?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, pretty Irish.
Marc:I can't remember the last time, I guess the last time I saw you was, not saw you, but you did one of these way back.
Marc:It was a live one from Aspen from that comedy festival.
Guest:Well, and then we did Austin.
Guest:You were on that one too?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, South by Southwest I was on.
Marc:I'm just trying to recall, I didn't know you that well, but the first time you were on the up and up, you were married.
Guest:I wasn't married, but it felt like I was going to be.
Guest:I thought I was going to be spending my life with someone at the time.
Marc:Yeah, I just had you pegged as a sort of like, well, he's going to have a rough go at it.
Marc:That guy's a little too straight to be doing stand-up.
Guest:Well, fortunately, I was a wild alcoholic, so that made me different and interesting.
Guest:Really different being an alcoholic in comedy.
Guest:That's very unique.
Marc:See, because I didn't know that about you.
Guest:Where did you grow up?
Guest:I grew up in Wisconsin, a small town in Wisconsin.
Guest:Very Pleasantville-ish.
Guest:Near what city?
Guest:Well, you might know La Crosse, Wisconsin.
Guest:It's on the border of Minnesota and Iowa.
Guest:It's directly in between Milwaukee and Minneapolis.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Back in the day, maybe you did...
Guest:work at the college there or something like that.
Marc:I've been to Milwaukee, I've been to Minneapolis, but I don't know if I know the... Or Madison and Minneapolis.
Guest:Oh, Madison and Minneapolis.
Marc:Those are two pretty smart cities, nice places.
Guest:Yeah, but in between that is... It's just nothing but farms and stuff, and it's very... I had a very, very wholesome upbringing, and I couldn't stand it.
Guest:It drove me crazy.
Marc:Was your family in farming?
Guest:No, but I mean, my mom's dad was a farmer.
Guest:My dad's dad did some farming, also worked at a factory as well, but also had a little farm.
Guest:And what'd your old man do?
Guest:My dad has a business making countertops, and so I was working since the age of like nine or ten for him here and there.
For Micah?
Guest:Yeah, some Formica, Corian.
Guest:What's that one?
Guest:Corian.
Guest:What is that?
Guest:It's like Formica.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Any stone tops?
Guest:He just started doing stone a few years ago.
Guest:Yeah, marble?
Guest:Yeah, you have to buy way more expensive machines and equipment to cut through that stuff.
Guest:He thought he paid off, huh?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Is it paying off for him?
Guest:Yeah, it is.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, he has...
Guest:His business is like five employees or something like that.
Guest:But does he have a showroom?
Guest:Because the machines do everything.
Guest:Does he have a showroom where you walk in and you're like, oh yeah.
Guest:Yeah, he has a big showroom.
Guest:Yeah, he does pretty well.
Guest:My dad's not a guy that spends money.
Guest:So I don't know how much he actually has in the bank.
Guest:But he's the counter guy.
Guest:He's a pretty frugal guy.
Marc:They're like, contractors are like, we gotta counter guys.
Guest:Yeah, my dad's this hardworking, I mean, both my parents, just 90 hours a week.
Guest:And I saw it growing up, and I was just like, no way.
Guest:Was your mom in the same business?
Guest:No, my mom was just a receptionist for a clinic, and then everything was fine until she'd be...
Guest:Now she's a supervisor for a clinic and she's just overworked.
Guest:My mom's a perfectionist and cares way too much about every little thing.
Guest:So she works 90 hours a week when she absolutely wouldn't have to.
Marc:What clinic?
Marc:What kind of clinic?
Guest:Just a little hospital, a health clinic.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So there you are.
Marc:So you're not in farming.
Marc:You're in this little town in Wisconsin.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Hardworking, counter-making pop.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You're in the shop cutting formica.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I was always very rebellious.
Guest:I was raised very strict and I was raised in a very religious upbringing.
Guest:Which religion?
Guest:Catholic.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I think a lot of people had it much worse than I did as far as how strict my parents were as far as that goes.
Guest:I think I went to a public high school and everything.
Marc:You got brothers and sisters?
Guest:Yeah, I have a sister who's five years younger and a brother who's nine years younger and we get along great.
Guest:How old are you?
Guest:I'm 36.
Guest:No kidding.
Guest:I had to think about that for a second.
Guest:That's funny.
Marc:So you still got like, so all right, you're pretty young people.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:You got like a little brother.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But he's like, he's married and has a really good job and is doing really well for himself doing computer programming stuff.
Guest:How about this?
Guest:He's the one that's, my sister, she's doing great.
Guest:She's taking over my dad's business.
Guest:She's in the countertop biz.
Guest:But what were you going to say about your brother?
Guest:I'm more the failure.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:My brother is definitely, he's the one that's kind of killing it.
Guest:Made it on his own and is making good money.
Guest:Well, he chose a skill, Shane.
Guest:He chose a skill.
Guest:I know.
Guest:He chose a... Hey, little brother, can I borrow some money?
Guest:Has that happened yet?
Guest:It happened for this tour that I'm putting together.
Guest:It was the first time, actually.
Guest:We were just talking about it on the phone.
Guest:I was like, I don't know if I'm going to have enough money for all this marketing that I want to do.
Guest:And he's doing well, so he's like, what do you need?
Guest:And I'm like, oh, no, am I really just about to borrow money from my little brother?
Guest:Oh, he's great.
Guest:I mean, we're like best friends.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Oh, that's great.
Guest:We have a wonder, we've always had a great relationship.
Guest:My sister and I didn't always get along growing up.
Marc:She's in the middle?
Guest:Yeah, like, you know, she would tell on me.
Guest:I was always getting into trouble, and she was the one that would narc on me when I was a kid.
Marc:What kind of trouble?
Guest:I got into, I mean, I was just as rebellious as I could possibly be.
Marc:But did you set fire to things?
Guest:Before drugs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I was into like, if I could vandalize.
Guest:I did a lot of, it's so embarrassing to talk about now.
Guest:This is incredibly embarrassing.
Guest:I used to blow up mailboxes.
Guest:You were one of those fuckers.
Guest:That was my big thing.
Guest:With M80s?
Guest:It's humiliating.
Guest:No, these little bombs you put in a soda bottle.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:He had to make a bomb to blow up mailboxes.
Marc:And you'd stand there and watch it happen?
Guest:Yeah, well, that's part of the fun of it.
Marc:You're talking about mailboxes in front of homes or USPS?
Guest:No, in front of homes.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:No, I think- You weren't Robert De Niro in Mean Streets walking away from the mailbox on the street and it blows up?
Guest:I think one of my friends did that once, actually.
Guest:He stepped up, huh?
Marc:He went on to full felony vandalism.
Guest:And I remember it was so stupid, too.
Guest:It would always be like kids that we didn't like in school.
Guest:We'd get somehow their parents' mailbox.
Guest:Yeah, an agenda.
Guest:You're like, we'll show them.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Also, the closest call that I had was vice principals.
Guest:Because school...
Guest:screw that guy, like a middle school vice principal.
Guest:You showed him, blew up his mailbox.
Guest:And yeah, I remember one of my, I was gonna show a new group of friends this new fun hobby of mine blowing up mailboxes.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:You got to be a leader.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was it was date daytime daylight and everything.
Guest:And it was shortly after school.
Guest:And we we went it was my vice principal lived near my one of my friends house.
Guest:And we all I think there's probably six, eight of us, something like that, if I remember right.
Guest:I put it all together, throw it in the mailbox, we start bicycling away, and then the vice principal drives home, and he drives right past us and sees us, and his mailbox is about to blow up, so he's going to know that it's us.
Guest:And so one of my friends is, well, I mean, we're all freaking out, but one of my friends is like, I'm going to go and get it.
Guest:I'm like, no, you aren't.
Guest:That's a bomb.
Guest:It explodes, so you want to stay away from it.
Guest:And he's like, no, no, I'm going to go get it.
Guest:I'm like, no, no, it's just about to go off.
Guest:And he ran over.
Guest:He grabbed the bottle out of them.
Guest:And it must have been hot as hell.
Guest:You could see it was like bubbling.
Guest:It was just about to go.
Guest:It was all warped and whatnot.
Guest:And so it must have been hot.
Guest:So he threw it quickly into the street.
Guest:And just then a car was driving by.
Guest:And it exploded under the car and then it shot out and knocked over the mailbox that he was trying.
Guest:That actually happened.
Guest:I promise you.
Guest:And we all biked away.
Guest:We didn't get in trouble for that.
Guest:But I eventually got in trouble.
Guest:I think the car stopped and we we just like biked away as fast as we could.
Guest:So it didn't like it didn't take the car out.
Guest:Nah, it wasn't that powerful.
Guest:It's enough to destroy a mailbox, but not much more than that.
Marc:So when did you become worse news?
Marc:What'd you get caught for doing?
Guest:Well, I mean, I got caught for blowing up.
Guest:One day we went on a whole tirade where we had toilet paper and eggs and got like 10 mailboxes and paintballs, 36.
Guest:How old was that happening?
Guest:So this would have been like 94.
Guest:So you were how old?
Guest:Like 13, 14.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right around that age.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:This is what you do as opposed to girls.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, because you want girls and you have no idea how to do that.
Guest:So put that energy into something better than that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then, I mean, I just, I was up for, I liked breaking into places, not to steal anything, I liked climbing on top of our school or whatever, and partying up there.
Marc:So when did this partying, what were you, just boozing?
Guest:No, but drugs didn't start until I was like 15.
Guest:So this was just pure rage and excitement?
Guest:Adrenaline?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:I mean, I'm still an idiot.
Guest:I'm still an adrenaline junkie big time.
Guest:Gets me in a lot of trouble.
Guest:What do you do?
Marc:Drive fast?
Marc:Jump out of planes?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I jump off things that are too high.
Guest:I've hurt myself before.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I remember I did skydiving once.
Guest:You did?
Guest:It was on my birthday a few years ago.
Guest:And I remember I jumped out of the plane and I'm like hurling towards the ground.
Guest:And I remember thinking like, man, this is so boring.
Guest:I can't believe how boring this is.
Guest:Like I built it up in my mind that this is going to be like a big rush.
Guest:And I was just like...
Guest:Didn't get high, huh?
Guest:No.
Guest:I remember because there's like a second little pole, like the first little shoot comes out and you feel it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And but it's not.
Guest:And I thought that was it.
Guest:And so I was like, oh, something must be going wrong.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I guess something went wrong and I guess I'm going to die right now.
Guest:And I remember just like looking down at this.
Guest:I was just like very indifferent about it at the time.
Guest:And.
Guest:I remember looking down at this house that we were right on top of, and I was like, man, I'm just going to fly through this guy's roof and end up in his lip.
Guest:I remember just giggling to myself that I'm just going to crash into his lip.
Guest:He's just sitting there watching TV.
Guest:And unfortunately, I'm about to be hurling through.
Guest:That's what you're thinking.
Guest:You're worried about that guy, not you.
Guest:It's going to be a bad day for that guy.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I think I value life more than I used to now.
Guest:Oh, good.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Well, what happened when the second shoot came?
Marc:Did you feel the rush then?
Guest:Then I was like, this is uncomfortable now because it's a nice view and everything, but now I got this guy just like breathing.
Marc:Oh, he's strapped to you, right?
Guest:Yeah, and I don't...
Guest:mind that as much but it's so uncomfortable the harness is like it's it's very uh it's yeah forget you have to i forgot you have to do it in tandem it hurts your balls it hurts your balls quite a bit oh um so that wasn't for that part yeah now you just jump off small buildings but yeah yeah i i broke my feet a couple years ago um i remember that happening so like so now you're you're you're running around blowing up mailboxes are you failing out of school and everything
Guest:Um, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I was always just naturally when I, especially, I mean, I was always like a C student in math class.
Guest:I'd, I'd get like, I could teach math.
Guest:I always got straight A's.
Guest:I was always amazing at math.
Guest:I never had to pay any attention.
Guest:I would be sleeping through class and they'd wake me up and I could solve every, yeah.
Guest:Still?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I know math pretty well still.
Guest:Um, I mean, I'm a science guy.
Guest:uh i mean i can do some calculus and stuff that's about where i stopped in high school so i didn't pursue it after that right but um but yeah i mean i i'm still naturally drawn to like sudoku and like math dooku and those kinds of so when did the uh drugs kick in what were what were the drugs
Guest:Uh, 15 is when I started smoking weed and that was like, not a big deal.
Guest:You know, I still don't think weeds.
Guest:I mean, now I just think weeds are kind of a boring drug.
Guest:Um, but that was life changing for me because before that it was like,
Guest:vandalism and one of the main things I'd do for fun is I'd go to the mall and like smart off to people or like run around like see how fast I could run around and like almost bump into people and just like it's so embarrassing small town shit buddy yeah and I remember after the first time I smoked weed I was like well
Guest:I guess I don't have to go to the mall anymore.
Guest:Yeah, that's over.
Guest:It's just such a relief.
Marc:Everything looks different now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I... I mean, I really took to it.
Guest:I mean, my first time that I was high...
Guest:I laughed for like five hours straight, and I mean, it was like that for me the first several times.
Guest:And then it went from Weekend Warrior to Daily Doser, and it was finally, and then I was starting to, I was always very insecure, and I always wanted to be more popular than I was.
Guest:I wanted to fit in with the cool kids, and I never did.
Guest:And also, that was another thing with getting into weed and stuff.
Guest:It was like, ooh, now I have an in with the cool kids.
Marc:Now you've got a built-in group.
Marc:You're part of a demographic.
Guest:You're part of a clique.
Guest:Right, and so I started dealing weed shortly after that.
Guest:Wow, that was quick.
Guest:Yeah, it didn't take me long.
Marc:I'll buy my friends.
Guest:Yeah, it was like, well, at first it was like, well, I can save money by buying a quarter instead of an eighth.
Guest:Well, a half is so much money.
Guest:It's so much cheaper than an ounce is cheaper, and then it's like, well, since I have this ounce, now people are asking me for weed, and so I can sell it to my friends, and that all started pretty quickly.
Marc:So you'd buy it from a guy in large quantity, and then just, you know, you had a guy?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I was not a successful drug dealer by any means, but I made enough to cover what I smoked, which was like...
Marc:So you were one of those guys.
Marc:I guess we're all like that a little bit because I was thinking about that the other day.
Marc:I keep getting waves of my childhood and and sort of, you know, what we would do or try to do just to hang out with fucking people.
Marc:I know.
Marc:It's just like you can't explain it like you just feel outside of everything.
Marc:And then, you know, I guess you did all your weird shit, but I was always uncomfortable and, you know, I could make people laugh.
Marc:I knew that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I always felt like, you know, like I guess it was insecurity, but like you just weren't like you just didn't fit in with anybody.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Fucking worst.
Marc:That's the way I felt.
Marc:I still kind of feel like that.
Marc:It's not so much make an effort, but just making conversation, there's part of my brain going like, I don't know, I would never be talking to these people because they don't want, why would they want to talk to me?
Marc:And it's still there, the self-consciousness of it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Guest:I mean, one thing that helped me was when I got into comedy in Boston years ago.
Guest:That's where I started.
Guest:And I started becoming popular in the Boston comedy scene and having all these friends.
Marc:Well, they were all misfits.
Marc:So you got all these.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That was the best thing about comedy.
Marc:It's like, oh, here's a bunch of other freaky, uncomfortable people.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, self-involved.
Marc:But if you just if you just funny and you impress them, they're going to respect you.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then you can stay out and drink all night and talk.
Guest:But I remember thinking I also remember thinking, man, I have been beating myself up all my life for not being popular enough.
Guest:And this is what popularity is.
Guest:This is like what popularity feels like.
Guest:It's it didn't change anything for me.
Guest:You know, it was not a big idea.
Marc:You're about to plummet into a guy's home and you're like, all right.
Marc:And then you finally get accepted by people.
Marc:Like, no, that was kind of disappointing.
Guest:I find life to be very underwhelming.
Guest:I think that's been a big part of my life where I feel like life has been kind of oversold to me.
Guest:I really believe that.
Marc:Well, you know, that's part of civilization.
Marc:They have to oversell it because they can't have everyone walking around going, what's the point?
Marc:I'm going to take myself out or take a few people out.
Marc:I mean, you know.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But you didn't buy into the religion thing, though.
Marc:That was never any solace or had no redemptive quality.
Guest:Just the opposite.
Guest:It drove me crazy because I thought at first when I was real young, I thought because around like four or even five, I was like,
Guest:Huh, I'm having a very hard time understanding this.
Marc:Making the jump, the leap of faith.
Guest:Making it add up to me.
Guest:But I mean, I guess I was probably a believer-ish at the time, because I was so young, and this is what my parents told me.
Marc:Take it for granted, you're sort of like, yeah, I believe in Jesus.
Guest:And it just wasn't it was shortly after that that I started questioning more and more.
Guest:And then I made up my mind like between fourth and fifth grade, between like making the transition from elementary school to middle school.
Guest:I was like, no, this is absolutely wrong.
Guest:And but everyone that I knew believed in it.
Guest:I didn't know that there was anyone.
Guest:I didn't know there's such a thing as agnostic or atheist or anything like that.
Guest:I just thought every single person in the world believed this.
Guest:And so for a long time, I was like, I must be crazy.
Guest:I guess I'm just crazy.
Guest:And then after a while, I was like, oh, everyone else is crazy.
Guest:And then it took me a long time to like, and I don't think that anymore, but that was just kind of the transition of my psychology.
Guest:And so it just fucked with me so much.
Guest:And that's part of why I was so rebellious.
Marc:Right, yeah.
Marc:But you're like a church every Sunday guy?
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:And then, um, that was, that was my Wisconsin accent.
Marc:Didn't hide it that time.
Guest:Usually I can't even hear my own.
Guest:People are always like, you have such a unique voice.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:I heard it that time I hear it with my mom my brother and I make her talk about Fargo once in a while for fun she goes well you know Bob and Mary Beth they were going on and on about how good this movie was and finally watched it and I was just I didn't see it was so funny I mean who even talks like that laughing
Guest:But I never hear it myself.
Guest:I did just there.
Guest:So, yeah, I went to Wednesday CCD, it was called, which is basically like Sunday school.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But on Wednesday nights after school.
Marc:Yeah, we did that.
Marc:Jews did that.
Guest:Yeah, and I just, I didn't handle it very well.
Guest:That was when I was, I got in a lot of trouble in there.
Guest:I was real smart off.
Marc:Yeah, because they're not, yeah, that's where you learn how to be an asshole and funny because the stakes are lower.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And like, you know, the person teaching is just that lady that you see every week.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, on Sundays, like someone's mom.
Guest:You don't get grades.
Guest:This isn't affecting my future in any way.
Marc:I was a fucking terror, man.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you're already pissed off at your parents and you're fucking off.
Marc:And it's just like a free pass to try to make a grown-up cry.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's what it was, man.
Guest:That's exactly what it was.
Guest:I mean, I look back on my childhood.
Guest:I'm like, God, I was such an asshole.
Guest:I hope I'm less than an asshole now.
Marc:Did you have fire and brimstone?
Marc:No.
Guest:No, I didn't.
Guest:I mean, I look at what other people had, and I'm like, well, what was I so angry and complaining about?
Marc:Like Tate's dad, the minister.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Crazy.
Marc:Yeah, I mean...
Marc:So when did the, like, so, because now you're, well, we're going to work up to the hallucinogenics because it seems like you were sort of a born-again hallucinogenic guy in the sense that it didn't, it's recent.
Guest:Well, not so much.
Guest:I mean, there's a few things.
Guest:One, I started doing psychedelics shortly after I started smoking weed.
Guest:So when you were 15?
Guest:It took me years to start smoking.
Guest:taking to alcohol.
Guest:I didn't like alcohol the first several times that I had it.
Marc:So you took psychedelics like acid in high school?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:When I was like 15, 16, I started, I did mushrooms for the first time and then acid shortly after and I loved it.
Guest:I always loved it.
Guest:It was...
Guest:And I wonder what kind of a douchebag I would be today had I never done a psychedelic.
Guest:Because it really got me looking at myself from a different angle and looking at life from a lot of different angles.
Guest:That early.
Guest:Yeah, absolutely.
Guest:I mean, at first it was just like...
Guest:You got a drug?
Guest:Fortunately, no one ever gave me heroin or meth or anything like that.
Guest:But I was like, you got a drug?
Guest:I'll do it.
Guest:Whatever my parents in school tells me not to do, I am up for it.
Marc:Well, it's good, though, because now in those towns, heroin's everywhere.
Guest:It just wasn't yet.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Guest:I lucked out.
Guest:And so I was taking psychedelic psych.
Guest:woo, let's party, this'll be crazy.
Marc:That's a good attitude.
Marc:I never had that attitude.
Marc:I was always sort of like, what's gonna happen?
Marc:You were just took to it right away because you love that adrenaline shit.
Marc:There's a lot of adrenaline involved in the ups and downs of a trip.
Guest:Yeah, there really is.
Guest:You're like, here we go.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I just handle it really, really well.
Guest:Way better than a lot of people.
Guest:I definitely don't advocate for it.
Guest:They're not for everybody at all.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And a lot of people I've seen people freak out and everything like that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I think a lot of it is a misconception and misinterpreting what is supposed to because to me it's like a especially in my adult life, a meditative therapeutic aid.
Guest:But but I also once I started
Guest:So I was always doing psychedelics until I got my first serious girlfriend.
Guest:And then for about 12 years, I was in a series of long-term relationships.
Guest:And every girlfriend that I had kind of like poo-pooed my psychedelic abuse.
Marc:And that's when you turned to booze?
Guest:And then I was drinking... No, I was drinking booze from the age of like 19.
Guest:I started finally... I was like, oh, I can talk...
Guest:To strangers, if I drink this stuff, this ability that I've never had before, and sure, normally when I do it this drunk, I'm going to make a complete fool out of myself.
Guest:But at least my mouth is opening, and I'm not just shriveling in fear.
Guest:And that's when I really latched on to alcohol around those college years, even though I didn't go to college.
Guest:And that's when I phased out of smoking weed, which, I mean...
Guest:Like I said, I still, I find weed to be pretty boring.
Marc:So wait, so you graduate high school?
Marc:Did you end up doing that?
Guest:Barely.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Then what happened?
Guest:And then I, so the plan was to graduate high school, get the hell out of there, move, become a,
Guest:Famous stand-up comedian.
Marc:Did you try doing comedy in high school?
Guest:No, I didn't know how.
Guest:I didn't know where to start.
Guest:What made you want to do comedy?
Guest:Who?
Guest:When I was like nine or ten years old, I had a friend who was like, we were playing video games.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he started laughing.
Guest:I was like making him laugh a bunch.
Guest:And he's like, you should be a stand-up comic.
Guest:I didn't even know what that was.
Guest:And he explained it's someone that stands up in front of a crowd of people and makes them laugh.
Guest:And I was like, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:yeah that's exactly did you watch comedy in high school did you like um in high school I did yeah um I didn't know I'd never seen stand-up at that time like nine or ten but once I was once I was a little older and had less restrictions as far as what tv I could watch I watched all the stand-up I possibly could like every single it I didn't care if I liked it or if it was my cup of tea or not I watched
Guest:Between the ages of 14 and the time I got my Comedy Central Presents, which was, I don't know, seven years ago or something like that, I watched every single bit of stand-up that had ever been on Comedy Central.
Guest:I would set the DVR any time there was stand-up on.
Guest:I didn't watch other shows.
Guest:I just watched stand-up every day.
Guest:Yeah, I did.
Guest:I mean, you, of course.
Guest:Oh, thank you.
Guest:That's very nice.
Guest:I was actually a big fan of yours before we met in 2007 when we won this award and whatnot, and you were super supportive of me.
Guest:Where was that at again?
Guest:In Aspen.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:That was the first time I had the thing, or it was on your podcast.
Guest:And I remember liking Zach Galifianakis.
Guest:Oh, early on, before Comedy Central, I would say Stephen Wright and Emo Phillips had an effect on me.
Guest:And when I started, I was definitely more of like an absurdist comedian.
Guest:I was also terrified, too.
Guest:So I guess Stephen Wright kind of was like he had a lot of stage fright starting out.
Guest:That kind of led into that character.
Guest:a little bit.
Marc:Well, it's interesting about those guys that can do that well, and Zach a little too early on, is that they really create almost their own time zone, their own reality.
Marc:They hold the stage in such a different way that immediately you're not in a reality that you would ever think you'd be in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think part of it was too that I watched so much stand-up that just to see anyone that was different, like Paul F. Tompkins or something like that, I remember being like,
Guest:whoa, this is different.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because there is a patter to it.
Marc:If you watch a lot of it, there is sort of a continuation of tone.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then when someone shifts, you're like, what?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I mean, and you know, you do it long enough and you pick up all the tricks and not all the tricks, but many of them.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Without even knowing it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like I watched an old tape of myself where I never fucking thought I did it in my life.
Marc:I would never have thought I did it in my life, but it was like 19, late 80s.
Marc:and I'm doing some shitty TV spot for a comedy club in New Jersey, and I'm doing that repetition of setting up the premise.
Marc:Hey, people drive?
Marc:Who drives?
Marc:We all drive.
Marc:You know, that weird kind of hammering of drugs.
Marc:Who does the drugs?
Marc:Well, I mean, it's not just him because that was before him.
Marc:It's just a weird road thing of just sort of like, huh, who likes the whatev?
Marc:And I'm like, when did I do that?
Marc:Like, I didn't even know who that guy was.
Guest:I was like a mathematician when I started comedy.
Guest:Everything was rule of three.
Guest:I had all of my jokes timed to the second.
Guest:There needs to be this number of laughs in a minute.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, absolutely.
Guest:Did you hit it?
Guest:I sucked for like two months, and then I was pretty good after that.
Guest:That's not bad.
Guest:Two months.
Guest:That's interesting.
Marc:I did really well.
Marc:Where did you hear about the rule of threes and fives?
Guest:I actually took a, I think I read some books.
Guest:I haven't took a stand-up class.
Guest:With who?
Guest:Not Rick Jenkins.
Guest:Rick Jenkins told me about it.
Guest:Rich Gustus.
Marc:Sure, I know Rich Gustus.
Marc:I started with him back in Boston.
Guest:It was just nice to have someone be like, hey, move the mic stand when you get on stage.
Guest:Or just tell me where the open mics were.
Guest:Or just to have someone to bounce my idea off of before I said it in front of a bunch of people.
Guest:Well, how'd you end up in Boston?
Guest:I had no idea what I was doing.
Guest:I was like, I'm going to move to New York or L.A.
Guest:Didn't have any money.
Guest:Didn't know what to do.
Guest:Was just worried about, you know, I'd never really been outside my hometown.
Guest:And when it was always, that's what I was going to do.
Guest:But when it came time to do it, I would get very nervous.
Guest:I'm like, oh, I'd make up excuses.
Guest:I should save up some money or, you know, whatever.
Guest:And I had a friend that moved to Boston.
Guest:And I was like, well...
Guest:I can go with a friend that's kind of safer to be with a buddy.
Guest:And then I'll shoot down to New York and figure it out.
Guest:And probably a year later, I'll move down to New York was kind of what I was thinking in my head.
Guest:Good plan.
Guest:And I got to Boston.
Guest:I looked up comedy clubs in the Yellow Pages and called up comedy clubs.
Marc:Comedy Connection, Nick's, Dick Daugherty's, Comedy Vault.
Guest:It was exactly that.
Guest:Comedy studio.
Guest:And the comedy studio.
Guest:I called up those four clubs.
Guest:And Rick Jenkins happened to live like two blocks from me or something like that.
Marc:Rick Jenkins, the guy who created the studio.
Guest:Yeah, my place was right on his way, on his walk to the studio.
Guest:And so he dropped off this packet with all this information.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like a printed package?
Guest:Like a package that... You know, I think it was... I don't remember very clearly, but I think it was like a lot of stuff where as a club owner that a lot of new comics go to is probably just a bunch of pain in the ass questions that you get sick of answering.
Guest:Oh, right.
Guest:So he just typed them all up and printed it out and included like a couple free tickets to shows and stuff.
Guest:And he's like, well, why don't you come and check out a few shows for free?
Guest:And then if you're still interested and give you a little stage time.
Guest:I remember my first time I did it.
Guest:It was going okay.
Marc:Well, who'd you go when you went to see the people there your first night out?
Marc:Who were the guys?
Guest:I don't even remember.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, I don't remember at all.
Guest:What year are we talking?
Guest:Oh, I remember Eric Andre was there.
Guest:The first time that I went on, Eric Andre was there, and I was like, wow, this dude is a lunatic.
Marc:Well, because he was going to Berklee School of Music at the time, I think.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That sounds right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember we were talking in the back.
Guest:Um, and I was like, I'm about to go on stage for the first time.
Guest:And he was really, really new as well.
Guest:And I was, I was worried because my stuff was, I was an absurdist and I was also like into like more shock value ish kind of stuff when, um, uh, before I'd started and I was worried about it.
Guest:And then Eric Andre got up and did his thing.
Guest:And I was like,
Guest:Oh, well, I guess I don't have to worry about offending anybody after that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And and then and I remember afterwards, Rick Jenkins was like, well, this isn't really a place to like this isn't an open mic, you know, there's paying customers and stuff.
Guest:So maybe you should take a class and.
Marc:Well, did you went up after Eric Andre?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:All right.
Guest:It was fine.
Guest:And then I had I had this piece of material that required me reading something like I'd printed off the Internet.
Guest:It was something really stupid.
Guest:It was like it was like some definition of hemorrhoids.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't remember what.
Guest:and I couldn't find the paper, and then, like, I panicked, and... The math guy?
Guest:I still look back, it's like, oh, no, I don't have my butthole joke.
Guest:Now what am I going to do?
Marc:It's a horrible feeling, though, in those first days where you're just trying to get through five fucking minutes.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And then if a major wrench gets thrown into the... It's like, oh, God.
Guest:But it was like...
Guest:It didn't matter that it didn't go well.
Guest:I didn't really expect it to go that well.
Guest:I was like, it's my first time.
Guest:I don't know what I'm doing.
Guest:I'm going to need to figure this out.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:And I remember being terrified.
Guest:I had horrible stage fright.
Guest:Every time before my name was going to be called for the first two months, I remember being like, I'm just going to run.
Guest:I'm just going to leave.
Marc:How about waiting for your next spot?
Marc:Those weeks where you're like, ugh.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I just couldn't handle it very well.
Guest:And so, I mean, just the fact that I got on stage was just really big for me.
Guest:And you just kept chipping away?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you hang out there, were you doing the one-nighters and stuff around New England?
Guest:Yeah, I loved Boston for me, and where I think a lot of people in Boston didn't really take advantage of the scene was people would either do
Guest:Just one nighters or they just do like the comedy studio club or whatever.
Guest:It was like that one.
Guest:No one was getting out of their comfort zone.
Guest:And I was always kind of like a hybrid ish comic because I had this absurdist stuff.
Guest:But I also had.
Guest:Jokes about doing construction and stuff like that.
Guest:Yeah, you gotta get out there and do the gigs.
Guest:And so I did everything.
Guest:I did everything I could.
Guest:I stayed in Boston way longer than most people would have.
Guest:Because I caught breaks.
Marc:Well, you'd fly out to LA or you'd go down to New York.
Guest:Yeah, I was just interested in being a road guy.
Guest:Even once I started getting late nights.
Guest:I remember I was doing... What was the first late night spot?
Marc:Conan?
Guest:Yeah, Conan.
Guest:After I did that HBO Aspen thing, I won an award for best new comic.
Marc:Back when he was still at NBC in New York?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then the Conan bookers at the time saw me there and had me on.
Guest:I was on a bus.
Guest:I was on the Fung Wa bus.
Marc:Oh, the Boston, New York bus?
Guest:For people that don't know, it's like a $15 bus to go from Boston to New York, and the shocks on it don't work.
Guest:I'm not sure they're a business anymore.
Guest:South Station?
Guest:Did you go from South Station?
Guest:Yeah, very, very shady, kind of.
Guest:And you don't know if they were running drugs or what was going on.
Marc:I remember that.
Marc:I never took it, but I remember hearing about it.
Guest:And yeah, it's it's around the area.
Guest:It's something a lot of people make fun of.
Guest:But I was on the bus.
Guest:I got a call from Doug.
Guest:They said the Conan bookers who Frank saw me in in Aspen and was interested in maybe booking me.
Guest:Because I just won this award, so a few different late night spots were, and I was like, well, Conan was the one that I would watch because they used to show it on Comedy Central during the day.
Guest:And I worked third shift in a factory, and so that was the late night show that I could watch.
Marc:Where were you working in a factory?
Guest:Arcadia, Wisconsin, about 45 minutes outside my hometown for about four years for Ashley Furniture.
Guest:Making what?
Guest:Yeah, making furniture, making parts.
Guest:I was like a part carrier, so I drove like a pallet mover, and I don't even remember that.
Guest:name of it now thank goodness uh and a forklift around a little bit and that kind of stuff and running machines making uh making parts sometimes doing assembly line stuff sometimes doing shipping stuff um and um it was it was miserable but it also taught me a lot of discipline yeah i can i can sit and write like forever no problem and a lot of people can't do that that's true and and you can also drive a forklift apparently
Guest:Yeah, and I can drive a forklift.
Guest:But just the kind of letting your mind go into the monotony and just grinding it out and getting yourself okay mentally with just over and over again doing this same repetitive monotonous action that will drive most people insane.
Marc:But at least if you're doing that in service of your creativity, there's some payoff.
Marc:So you're on this bus and you get Conan.
Guest:And they call.
Guest:He's like, well, why don't you call Frank and see what he has to say?
Guest:And I called him and he is like,
Guest:He's like, do you have a late night set together that you can send me?
Guest:Can you send me like a tape or something like that or put something on YouTube?
Guest:And I was like, oh, I don't have my computer with me.
Guest:I'm on this bus in New York.
Guest:Can you email me?
Guest:I'm like, I don't know.
Guest:Can I email you in like a couple days?
Guest:And they were just like, well...
Guest:do you just know what you would want to do?
Guest:And I was like, yeah, I guess.
Guest:And they're like, well, can you just do it for us over the phone?
Guest:Sure, yeah.
Marc:I've done a lot of phone sets with Frank Smiley.
Guest:So I'm like going through a setup and then I'm like, so now here's where the audience gets really uncomfortable.
Guest:And then like explaining what the reaction of the crowd will be doing.
Marc:And then Frank goes, what else you got?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, honestly, I did my five minutes and he was like...
Guest:He was like, well, if you think that's five minutes, you want to be on next Monday?
Guest:And I was like, okay.
Guest:And I went out and I really, my first set, I kind of knocked it out of the park.
Guest:And then they had me on.
Guest:I remember I sent him a DVD shortly after that.
Guest:And they called me one day and they were like...
Guest:They were like, there was a problem with your DVD.
Guest:It only played like the first three minutes.
Guest:And I was like, I'm sorry, I'll send you another one.
Guest:And they're like, well, we really liked the first three minutes, so you want to be on again next Thursday or whatever?
Guest:It was like a week from now.
Guest:I'm like, okay.
Guest:And they were super nice.
Guest:How many times did you do it?
Guest:I've done it five times now.
Marc:Do you think that was really the beginning of your kind of wave?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, because I got from my first Conan set, after the time I won that award in Aspen, I got eight TV appearances in a year.
Guest:And so I was getting Comedy Central stuff.
Guest:I did the show for BBC.
Guest:I think I did Jimmy Kimmel around that time.
Guest:I did a thing for Showtime.
Guest:And I was just in my mind, I was just like, well, I guess I'm just going to be the most famous comedian ever.
Guest:Like, this is where my trajectory is going.
Yeah.
Marc:And you start headlining in that time.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:Like right away I started headlining and then I learned a lot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Headlining.
Guest:I was like, you can't just, I mean, this is fine for like a 25, 30 minutes set, but 45 minutes an hour, people will pick up on your headlining.
Guest:uh you can be as odd as you want but if you have the same kind of oddness to your structures people will pick up on it yeah it's not surprising anymore and and so i started telling a few more stories here and there and and doing what i could to kind of get out of my comfort zone and expand what i was doing and you got a girlfriend at this point yeah i have a i'm in a serious relationship very much in love living down in malibu yet
Guest:No, this was not for years and years later.
Guest:This was... I was still in Boston at this time.
Guest:I lived in Austin for a couple years before Malibu.
Guest:And I did my half-hour Comedy Central Presents.
Guest:And I...
Guest:Killed it on that went really well.
Guest:And then I was kind of getting together an hour to do.
Guest:And then I looked at the hour and I was like, this is just garbage.
Guest:I hate this.
Marc:And how's the drinking at this point?
Guest:uh pretty bad you know it was i mean it wasn't like you know it was pretty bad i think most people would say it was pretty bad to me it's funny because being in from wisconsin it was just like i remember when i first moved to boston people were like what the hell who drinks like and i was like oh this is just what i'm used to drinking like this is what everyone i know this is how we drink yeah
Guest:And but but the blackouts were coming more often.
Guest:I I was also like I just got cocky.
Guest:You know, I was taking it for granted.
Guest:I wasn't as disciplined.
Guest:I wasn't writing as much or as well.
Guest:And and.
Guest:And I was still like putting out a new hour each year as far as like every time I went back to a new club, I had a new act.
Guest:But I was never I started feeling very unsatisfied with what I was doing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that's when I started to have.
Guest:And I and right around that time, too, I was like I started feeling very trapped in this relationship at the time where I didn't.
Guest:She was talking about wanting to buy a house and like maybe get married sometime.
Guest:And I had no interest in any of that.
Guest:I was like I was just starting to do international work.
Guest:And that's just like my dreams are coming true.
Guest:And and I that's what I wanted to focus on.
Guest:I didn't I didn't care about having a house or being married.
Guest:I don't have interest in marriage or kids.
Guest:And so I kind of had a bit of a breakdown.
Guest:And it wasn't bad, but just my drinking got worse.
Guest:My material I was really unhappy with.
Guest:And my career started plateauing.
Guest:And the work started drying up a little more.
Guest:And I made a very big change in my career.
Guest:I also decided that I wanted to talk about more interesting things.
Guest:Because when I started...
Guest:Like doing like like I was I could do like this really edgy stuff and it was like a little bit more novel at the time than what it is now.
Guest:I mean, because Doug Stanhope was a guy who had burned every bridge and wasn't like a household name and Louis CK wasn't a household name.
Guest:I caught breaks before Anthony Jeselnik was and now skip to these many years later.
Guest:Now all these guys are pretty well known.
Guest:They're doing this better than I am.
Guest:And they're known for it.
Guest:And so it kind of made me feel, I'm like, well, where's my place in this?
Guest:I don't think I can do it better than these guys are.
Guest:And I think there's already like enough, they already have the corner, the market cornered.
Guest:And I was always really doing international stuff.
Guest:Everyone internationally has these theme shows and puts together and does these festivals.
Guest:Did you do Edinburgh?
Guest:I did a few years ago.
Guest:And it went...
Guest:I would say bad, but it was a good learning experience.
Guest:And I got like one good review in the Scotsman that's worth using for the next time around.
Marc:Yeah, but that's like, yeah, that commitment of like, gotta keep coming back.
Marc:And I'm like, well, I don't know.
Marc:Once is enough for me.
Guest:i think with this new show i'm doing i think it would be perfect for it and i think that it would be better but i i did not like the experience the first time around but every time i'm like that i always had this mentality even like shitty clubs there's so few clubs that i at the time when i started out wouldn't go back to even if i bombed i'd be like i want to go back there i want to get them next time oh really i don't have that anymore like i don't have
Guest:They didn't like me?
Guest:That's fine.
Guest:I didn't like them either.
Guest:But at the time, I was very driven by that.
Marc:Okay, so you got cocky.
Marc:You had this realization.
Marc:There's a lot of guys doing what you do.
Marc:You're in this relationship that you're not happy in.
Marc:You're drinking too much.
Marc:You went to Europe, and you realized they want theme shows.
Marc:How does it all fall apart?
Marc:You're having a breakdown.
Guest:i i realized that so i started writing my manager and agent and they were on me to do um like tv shows and i which at the time i had no interest in i remember when i first caught my breaks they'd bring me into all these like tv studios and stuff general meetings and they'd be like so what do you want to do like i like being a stand-up on the road and they'd be like okay well nice talking to you
Guest:I look back on it, it's like a lot of ways that people would die for these opportunities.
Guest:Yeah, they're used to it.
Guest:But so many comics would wish that they could get a journal.
Guest:So when did the accident happen?
Guest:So I started doing science-themed things.
Guest:I started getting it.
Guest:I always read science.
Guest:I mean, I'd be blackout drunk and I'd be reading a physics book after bar time, which is probably why I don't remember physics very well.
Guest:I started I got in this new relationship when I moved to Malibu and I was I was looking to put together maybe some TV show at the time.
Guest:Yeah, my I wanted to do like a science themed thing.
Guest:At first it was going to be physics and it wasn't working out.
Guest:I was experimenting with things and it was hard to make physics funny.
Guest:My my girlfriend, my new girlfriend smoked more weed than normal.
Guest:And so I smoking more weed than I was used to.
Guest:And we were watching a lot of Animal Planet.
Guest:And and so I was writing a lot of like relationship jokes because I'd just gone through this really bad breakup and was in this new, exciting relationship and having all sorts of fun sex and blah, blah, blah.
Guest:And then also writing a lot of silly animal jokes at the same time.
Guest:And then they just kind of started blending together.
Guest:And I was like, maybe I'll make like a TV show about the science of sex or something like that, which I later abandoned.
Guest:And I felt like there's too many people kind of doing something like that.
Guest:But so I started just.
Guest:Looking into it and I got me into like evolutionary psychology and biology, which just changed the whole way that I looked at the world.
Guest:And I want to be talking about this stuff on stage.
Guest:And I try a couple jokes and it wouldn't work just doing like a one joke of it.
Guest:And then here's like another drinking joke or something like that.
Guest:And so I realized if I want to to make the setup pay off, I need to set up something and then keep on talking about it and keep on building on it.
Guest:And that's when I started doing theme shows.
Guest:My first whack at it was I had a Netflix special mating season, which, to be honest, I'm not terribly happy with.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because it was like my first whack at trying to figure it out, and I wish I would have done more challenging material, which I had.
Guest:I just selected more accessible material because, to me, the idea of, like, if I can get people that have no interest in hearing about science to hear a little bit about evolution, I think that would be awesome.
Guest:Because I was doing shows in, like, Texas where I'd have some cowboy come up and be like, man, I never thought I'd laugh at a science joke.
Guest:And I was like, oh, man, finally, because I've been such an angry atheist my whole life.
Guest:And my jokes before that were like, here's why religion is stupid.
Guest:And so now I had this new take on like, here's this interesting thing that you might not know about.
Guest:And so that's what I did with mating season.
Guest:And it's not that there weren't jokes on it that I wasn't ultimately that I still don't think are funny.
Guest:It's just like my delivery wasn't because...
Guest:I lacked confidence at the time and that sort of thing.
Guest:And actually, and so then I started figuring it out.
Guest:I wrote this whole act about the idea of negative emotions and how they evolved and where they come from and why they're important.
Guest:And it was going pretty well.
Guest:Then I broke both my feet hiking.
Guest:Both my heels broke.
Guest:By the way, at the same time, I had started reaching out to scientists and getting to know scientists because I was like, maybe I'll put together a show in LA.
Guest:I don't know what I'm doing with this.
Guest:I decided I was going to make a podcast because I was having all these...
Guest:lunches with interesting people and and like I helped teach a class at UCLA one time and and I was I was just having my mind blown by these new ideas I was like if I would have recorded this conversation people would love this yeah and and then right it was like how often did you do the podcast
Guest:It's weekly.
Guest:What's it called again?
Guest:It's called Here We Are.
Guest:You can go to herewearepodcast.com.
Guest:It's like evolutionary psychology, biology, behavioral economics, neuroscience, kind of all life stuff.
Guest:So I stay away from physics and chemistry, anything that's very small and doesn't really apply to day-to-day life.
Marc:How do you break both heels with hiking?
Guest:So a buddy of mine, we were hiking.
Guest:Long story short, he wanted to jump off this thing that was too high.
Guest:I was in the best shape of my life because I had now at this point been sober for close to three years, I think.
Guest:And I wasn't counting days.
Guest:I didn't go to AA or anything like that.
Guest:But it was close to three years.
Guest:And I, rock climbing like crazy, had...
Guest:I've never been fit in my entire life except for like this one year.
Guest:And so I had just like this Superman complex and just thought I could do it.
Guest:And like I've explained, I'm a crazy adrenaline junkie.
Guest:And I thought I was, I knew this was too high and my buddy wanted to do it.
Guest:And I was like,
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All right.
Guest:I think I can maybe make maybe I'll break a heel is what I thought, because I've broken a heel before I did it in high school, jumping off of a houseboat onto a dock.
Guest:And it just wasn't that big of a deal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's just a little chip had to walk on my toes a little more.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it wasn't it was like a couple of months.
Guest:It was uncomfortable.
Guest:Not that big of a deal.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I was like, you know, worst case scenario, I'll do that again.
Guest:But I love pushing it.
Guest:I love just pushing myself as much as I can.
Guest:It's got me in so much trouble in my life with the law and everything else.
Guest:Um, I, I jumped off this, uh, thing that was too high and, uh, one of my heels exploded.
Guest:Uh, I, I heard it happen.
Guest:I heard it.
Guest:Like I heard the sound shoot through my body.
Guest:This is what all listeners and then people, and then people that know me are like, God, is he talking about his fucking feet again?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I talk about on the podcast all the time.
Guest:And really it's not that big of a deal.
Guest:They broke both of them like that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:At the same time.
Marc:They both exploded?
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Guest:One was not a big deal at all.
Guest:One was just a little chip.
Guest:And it was, it sucked.
Guest:But it was, by comparison, it was, it felt like.
Marc:So what did you have to get a new heel put in?
Guest:They put, it's on, the cover of my album is an x-ray of my foot, actually.
Guest:Because I made an album about it called My Big Break.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I talk about,
Guest:So it fit really well into the negative emotion thing that I was putting.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:Well, that's good.
Guest:You needed a new bit.
Guest:Yeah, I needed some new bits.
Guest:Well, it's what I learned from it was that because the act was going pretty well, but this is like, here's a fun science thing and then jokes about it.
Guest:But people don't necessarily attach to that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then once I had something to make it personal, that's when people really started.
Guest:Or maybe they just felt sorry for me because I was on cruise.
Guest:crutches on stage or whatever.
Guest:But it really felt like people started connecting more once I had something personal.
Guest:And I never really liked doing personal stuff that much unless it was like outrageous.
Guest:So it got you more comfortable in that.
Guest:And I spent like three months in my parents' basement because I couldn't care for myself.
Guest:My place in Malibu had like 50 steps and there was just no way I could get up with both my feet broken with like trying to get groceries and stuff like that.
Marc:What happened to the girl?
Guest:We had broke up right before...
Guest:I broke my feet.
Guest:She got out just in time.
Guest:And we're still good friends, actually.
Guest:Yeah, we had broken up just before.
Guest:We were actually still living together at the time.
Guest:We were going to ride out our lease because we were actually great friends.
Guest:We just realized, like, as a couple, we just fought every day.
Guest:And we're very passionate.
Guest:Great sex, horrible fights.
Guest:Yeah, I know that one.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And so when that happened, and then I just didn't give a fuck anymore, which I needed, because the road will make you... When I started, I didn't give a fuck if I offended or walked a couple people.
Guest:As long as I was getting laughs and people were... As long as I was killing, I didn't care.
Guest:And then you get on the road, and then you get those comment cards, and people, you make bookers nervous, and you have a couple bad nights, and the work starts drying up, and it just made me very safe.
Guest:And when I broke my feet, it just kind of made me reanalyze my life a little bit, and I was like, I'm gonna do exactly what I wanna do.
Guest:And I thought my last album, it didn't it didn't like catch on or gain any popularity or anything.
Guest:But I still to this day, I think it's a fantastic album.
Guest:I thought I thought it was my best.
Guest:My big break.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And and I was like, OK, I have I know how to do this now.
Guest:And then what happened with the act that I'm doing now, which is about psychedelics, is was just it just happened very naturally.
Guest:All that happened was.
Guest:People would have me on their podcast to talk about breaking my feet, and they'd be like, what were you doing in Sedona?
Guest:And I'd say, well, I was going there to do ayahuasca for the first time.
Marc:How'd you get from breaking feet to Sedona?
Guest:Sedona's where I broke my feet.
Guest:And I was going to Sedona to do ayahuasca, but before I got to do that, I broke my feet.
Guest:And and so then they're like, what's that?
Guest:And then I explain that I've been doing DMT and smoking a lot of DMT and stuff.
Guest:And and some of my ideas, I use it to develop new kind of neuroscience ideas that I'm tinkering with and trying to run by people.
Guest:And.
Marc:DMT is it fast acting?
Guest:Very fast acting.
Guest:You smoke it and you feel it within seconds and it lasts for about 10 minutes and it's the most intense experience that you'll ever have.
Guest:Even as someone who is bored by skydiving, I do DMT sometimes and I'm like, that was too much.
Guest:That was a little intense.
Guest:Why, what happens?
Guest:You go to what seems like, I believe it's the inner workings of your mind.
Guest:A lot of people call it the spirit molecule because you go to often what seems like a completely different world, and there's beings there talking to you and alien-like things and buildings talking to you and stuff.
Guest:You smoke it, and it's my first time I smoked it.
Guest:The guy, I was like...
Guest:I was like, sure, you know, if it's a psychedelic, I'm down for it, whatever.
Guest:I was a little nervous, but the dude was really smart.
Guest:He was a computer programmer.
Guest:His wife or his lady at the time was a neuroscientist.
Guest:I was like, oh, these are bright people.
Guest:They're not like crackheads or burnouts or anything like that.
Guest:They're not like dreaded hippies that...
Guest:Yeah, they're not any of that.
Guest:And and so I went, he's like the first hit, you're going to feel weird.
Guest:The second hit is like a crazy, intense mushroom trip.
Guest:Like, that's what most people bail.
Guest:They can't handle it.
Guest:Don't bail.
Guest:You have to keep going.
Guest:You have to get that third hit.
Guest:You like break through this space.
Guest:And I was like.
Guest:yeah whatever with the build-up you know yeah and this is like everyone builds up life for me like yeah yeah yeah just disappointing yeah it's always disappointing i had that first hit right away i was like oh i'm turning into a cartoon that's weird yeah i had that second hit and then everything just started shaking and fucking going crazy and i was like oh no
Guest:I've made a horrible decision.
Guest:I've just done every drug that there is all at the same time.
Guest:I think I'm going to die.
Guest:And then he saw my face and he's like, one more.
Guest:And I'm filling up this bong.
Guest:And then I just remember the sense of peace washes over me.
Guest:And then everything, everything I've ever known, everything, all of this perception just goes gone.
Guest:And then it's just me and this bong in space brought the bong with me.
Guest:nothing else just me and the there wasn't stars or planets or anything it was just a black empty void yeah and and uh and then the smoke inside the bong turns into electricity and the electricity turns into codes and i'm like this is gonna be so strange and then i smoked all those codes up and then i shot through this tunnel of fractals and lights and impossible colors and
Guest:And then I impossible colors is like a cliche thing in the psychedelic.
Guest:Actually, I'm feeling very trite right now.
Guest:And then and then I landed in this like hologram computer chip city made out of lights.
Guest:And it was like talking to me.
Guest:And I knew exactly what I was saying.
Guest:It was like thoughts without words.
Guest:Um, because it's in my mind, what I, what I think that it is.
Guest:It's just like the non-conscious world.
Guest:And it's kind of like the movie inside out.
Guest:Um, and, and so this guy was like, welcome.
Guest:I'm like, what the fuck?
Guest:And he's like, so happy to see you.
Guest:I'm like, okay.
Guest:I'm like, I'm a Shane.
Guest:I'm on a couch.
Guest:I just smoked DMT.
Guest:They said it only lasts for 10 minutes.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I'll be okay.
Guest:And, and this is like, no, no, no.
Guest:Pay attention.
Guest:Pay attention.
Guest:Don't get overwhelmed.
Guest:And I was like, this is how I talk.
Guest:And it starts building these buildings.
Guest:And I'm like, okay.
Guest:All this stuff is very difficult to explain.
Guest:And then it was like, now do you understand?
Guest:And I'm like, I guess.
Guest:And then I was like, do you really want to see something?
Guest:Like it's going to show me the meaning of life or whatever.
Guest:And I was like, okay.
Guest:And then I was like, look over here.
Guest:And then I looked and there was that like weird cartoon cat from like Alice in Wonderland.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Cheshire.
Guest:or cat yeah yeah and just like laughing at me and I look back like what the fuck and he's like I'm just fucking with you and that was it and I was just 100% back to normal as clear headed as I've ever been in my entire life going what the fuck
Guest:was that.
Guest:And I need to try that again sometime.
Guest:Not right away.
Guest:Not right away.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It took me, it's still, it's, it's hard to, it's hard to build up the courage every time.
Guest:I've probably done it like 80, 90 times now, but it's in the last three years, I'd say.
Guest:And every time it's like, oh, can I, I don't know if I can do this.
Marc:And is it different every time or do you go back to some of the same places?
Guest:Sometimes I go back to the same.
Guest:I have like four different storylines usually that I go back to.
Guest:And then sometimes it throws me for a loop and is completely different.
Guest:But there's like this purple woman that I see all the time.
Guest:That's the crazy one because it's just like other people see her and stuff.
Guest:And it's really strange.
Guest:And then and then there's just this one that's these.
Guest:What do you mean other people see her?
Guest:So the craziest thing that happened.
Guest:So I would do it, and this crazy thing would happen, and I'd see this, and then I'd kind of just start reading a lot, and I'd just start reading neuroscience and just figure out, like, okay, how could the brain be doing this?
Guest:And just...
Guest:Figuring out how the brain must be running simulations like I believe that right now as I'm selecting words, my brain is in milliseconds running through a number of simulations as to which words I should pick and how they'll be received by you or in the audience.
Guest:And then it's deciding very quickly.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And and this especially happens in like.
Guest:high salient moments.
Guest:Like if you break your feet and you need to figure out if you need to get to the hospital, take a helicopter, stuff like that, this really comes on and it runs all these simulations and you can kind of see them clearer.
Guest:And so I was just kind of developing some interesting ideas and sometimes bouncing them off.
Guest:If I had an aeroscience scientist on my show afterwards, if they seemed cool, I'd be like, hey, I have this idea.
Guest:And then...
Guest:So the craziest thing that happened... Do they validate it?
Guest:Sometimes.
Guest:A lot of times they're like, that's interesting.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I'm going to steal that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I don't want to blow up anyone's spot, but I've talked to a neuroscientist or two that's like, yeah, I smoked DMT in college, and that's why I'm a neuroscientist now.
Guest:And...
Guest:So everything was very, and I still think there's explanations for the purple woman, but this is what happened.
Guest:I did, it was about time 20, and you get kind of deeper and deeper each time.
Guest:At first it's just usually colorful patterns and stuff.
Guest:Most people don't talk to anyone or say anything.
Guest:And at first it's kind of like you're watching a movie, and then after a while it wraps around and is panoramic, and then after a while it becomes you and you are it.
Guest:And it's everything.
Guest:And it's like this weird, like, flat pattern.
Guest:It's like this imperceivable dimension.
Guest:It's very difficult to articulate.
Guest:But I had one day I was... I was...
Guest:I went to this buddy's house where I first did it, and he gave it to me.
Guest:And afterwards, he played me this song.
Guest:And afterwards, I was like, he's like, how'd you like the song?
Guest:And I was like, well, it was good.
Guest:It was a good trip.
Guest:I wish he would have played one without words because I can't tell the difference between what I'm hallucinating and what is in the music.
Guest:And he's like, oh, there's no words in that song.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:and i was like oh okay because then i remembered what the words were it was like this is this is existence this is everything and um i was like well that's that's dmt for you it's crazy um you know i don't really put a lot of stock in it i don't put a lot of stock in this perception i don't put a lot of stock in that perception i say question everything you know right keep evaluating um and and so then we we went to dinner and he's like oh you can try again tonight if you want and so i i
Guest:I smoked it again.
Guest:And this time I went in and there was like me and this other guy, it was like me in another dimension or something like that.
Guest:And we're kind of trying to figure out how to, how to like connect these two worlds or how, how this is happening, how we're able to communicate.
Guest:And then after that, there was just this weird carnival and there's this purple woman.
Guest:It seems like I knew her for lifetimes, like millions of lifetimes.
Guest:It seemed like we, it was like, Hey, I,
Guest:so good to see you again i'd never seen her before consciously but it was just like i know this woman and she's dancing and like i can dance with her if i want to but i don't have to it doesn't matter and and there's like this guy playing an organ behind her at this weird carnival and the message is like well this is going to keep on happening again and again so it doesn't really matter and just you know have fun and um and that was the message i remember i got out of it and i was like
Guest:It was weird.
Guest:There was this purple woman.
Guest:She is dancing.
Guest:She is wrapped in these codes.
Guest:It was like a rope with snake scales that had little codes inside of them that she is wrapped in.
Guest:And I was like, you know, that's crazy.
Guest:That's DMT for you.
Guest:You just see crazy shit.
Guest:Didn't think much of it.
Guest:And then the next day I went and I gave it to someone for their first time, someone that wasn't connected with these people.
Guest:I didn't share this story with them.
Guest:And at the time I made, I was especially careful to never put any ideas in someone's head before they do it for the first time.
Guest:So I just wouldn't tell them, I just explained, you know, it's going to be intense.
Guest:You're going to see some weird stuff.
Guest:I don't, I can't tell you what you're going to see.
Guest:And he, um, smoked it.
Guest:And the first two minutes he was just like,
Guest:i've had too much i've had too much i've had too much and and i was i was like yeah yeah you know the first couple minutes i told you they're yeah they're pretty intense and and as soon as i said that he'd like the smile comes on his face and he's just like oh man they love you in here and and i was like what
Guest:I was like, yeah, there's like this feeling of love is what I said.
Guest:And then he's like, no, no, no, Shane.
Guest:They love you.
Guest:And I was like, what are you talking about?
Guest:And he goes, there is this purple woman in here who says that she just needs you to know that she loves you.
Guest:And I was like, what?
Guest:And he's like, yeah, there's this carnival.
Guest:And there's this purple woman in here who says she knows you really well.
Guest:And you come in here all the time.
Guest:And she just needs you to know that she knows you.
Guest:I'm not kidding.
Guest:Bob Khosrabi.
Guest:He's a comic in Austin.
Guest:Really funny dude.
Guest:And I was like, what did she look like?
Guest:And he was like, you know what the strangest thing was?
Guest:Was she had this like serpentine thing.
Guest:I didn't know the word serpentine.
Guest:It was like a way better way of explaining exactly what it looked like.
Guest:I really fucked with my head, man.
Marc:So where do you come down on that?
Guest:I think that possibly my best take at trying to figure out how the brain's doing this is that perhaps our brains are constructed in similar ways.
Guest:Like perhaps when I look at this microphone from this angle, it's triggering almost the exact same neural patterns that are triggering in your brain when you look at this microphone at this exact same pattern.
Guest:And if there's these set neural patterns that kind of make life easier to, so you don't need to figure out what a door is.
Guest:So you have this kind of flexible template.
Guest:So like a robot can't look at that and be like, that's a door.
Guest:It would need to be shown a picture of every door.
Guest:and and at least rudimentary robots they they have it down a little better now but we have these kind of flexible templates where we have this idea of like what a perfect door is in our mind or a perfect circle or a perfect square or something like that and then it's very flexible and that's how we're able to just look at something be like boom that's a door like we really take it for granted okay processing that's happening
Guest:So if you instead artificially stimulate these areas, so instead of this being triggered by external stimulus, if it's triggered by internal stimulus, maybe you could see what your brain is perceiving rather than perceiving what you're seeing.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:It's just happening in reverse.
Guest:That's my...
Guest:It's really confusing to me.
Guest:I don't know how to explain this.
Marc:But wait, but what about the idea that not unlike a cat senses an earthquake or rain, that when we're in proximity to each other's minds, that maybe out of his fear that there was some other kind of communication going on that was seeking commonality with you?
Guest:I'm starting to become much more open to that idea than I ever have.
Guest:I mean, I'm a science guy.
Guest:I talk to scientists.
Guest:I read science books and I'm like nothing.
Guest:And what I've read makes a convincing argument that that is possible.
Guest:But I've always thought about that.
Guest:How do you write?
Guest:How do you explain some of this?
Marc:Well, yeah, but that's the thing is that like, you know, we have these huge brains and much simpler brains are capable of not so much telepathy, but expanding the senses to a point where they're sensitive to things that we're not aware of, but it doesn't mean we can't be sensing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And why wouldn't that happen?
Guest:I think that I think that possibly there might be a this flat pattern that's a dimension that is running through everything.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That is all one thing.
Guest:And we are all it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Everything is right.
Guest:The frequency.
Guest:Everything's it.
Guest:And that that we're kind of like our bodies kind of like bubble up in it.
Guest:But it's still a part of there is no disconnect from it.
Marc:And it's sort of like the Jungian thing, like a collective unconscious.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And some other stuff.
Guest:I'm starting to be much more receptive to those ideas.
Guest:Uh-oh, you're gonna get mystical.
Guest:I know, I know.
Guest:It's gonna happen.
Guest:No!
Guest:Full circle.
Guest:No!
Guest:Yeah, I'm starting to become the preacher I've always hated.
Marc:Sure, that's right.
Marc:You start out with science and you end up Timothy Leary.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Even if all of that's true, I still think that where I can add my value is in thinking through things skeptically and critically and taking a neuroscience approach.
Guest:Because there's already enough people out there that are like, there's a different dimension.
Guest:There's already enough of that angle.
Marc:Well, no, I think your struggle or your sort of growth or sort of exploration of that, the fight,
Marc:Yeah, because like, you know, a lot of them just sort of like just take it sort of like I was in a different place.
Marc:But you like, you know, it'd be interesting that as you continue to resist through skepticism and science that, you know, I can see next year shows sort of like it's out there.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I've applied all practical scientific skepticism to this, and I know a lot of people that know this lady.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, and I see this lady all the time, and then other people do when they're with me and stuff quite a bit.
Marc:So that's what the show, what's the show called?
Guest:So it's called A Good Trip.
Guest:It used to have a better name.
Guest:It used to be called This Is Your Shane on Drugs.
Guest:But then everyone thought I was going to be on drugs.
Guest:I thought I was going to be glorifying heroin or crack or whatever.
Guest:And it's all about psychedelics.
Guest:And so I talk about DMT for about the last 20 minutes.
Guest:It's more like I build toward that.
Guest:I need to set up a lot of stuff.
Guest:I kind of break down the history of psychedelics.
Guest:I talk about my experiences with them.
Guest:And what...
Guest:where I think people are misperceiving what is often called a bad trip is actually often a difficult trip that people can learn and benefit a lot from.
Guest:And, and, um, some of the neuroscience behind the studies that have been done on LSD and mushrooms and that sort of thing.
Guest:And then I eventually get into, but really it's about perception.
Guest:One of the, one of my favorite things that I've ever thought of, and I've been able to articulate and I thought of it during a mushroom trip and, um,
Guest:like, it's not this funny, but at the time I was rolling around laughing about this for like 10 minutes was, it was the idea of, because I started taking it too seriously.
Guest:I started getting too wrapped up in, in this trip and being like, no, this is real or whatever.
Guest:And I thought, no, that's what we, that's what our brain tricks us into doing all the time.
Guest:And the reason why you do it more during a trip is because it's so short and it's so salient and it's so different.
Guest:Your brain just will
Guest:loves stuff like that and really attaches stuff like that.
Guest:So I thought of this thought experiment that always gets me out.
Guest:Anytime I'm having a trip where I feel like I'm getting too into it, I think about this.
Guest:It's that imagine instead there's someone whose brain was chemically like they're on LSD.
Guest:They're just born this way.
Guest:The world's all colorful and rainbow-like, and that's just what perception is like to them.
Guest:And then one day, someone gives them a pill that brings them to our perception, it would seem just as bonkers and just as crazy.
Guest:It'd be, oh my god, I get it now.
Guest:It's like there's these things called jobs and, like, entry-level positions that one can obtain.
Guest:And then it's like there's these hierarchies, you know?
Guest:And you just show up on time each day, and sure, you gotta step on a few toes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh my God, it's like there's a potential boss man inside each and every one of us.
Guest:Holy shit.
Guest:And then you'd go back to your dumb, boring LSD reality.
Guest:Okay, Buddha, Jesus, whatever, demon clown.
Guest:And I think that's what my takeaway from psychedelics has been.
Guest:And what I hope the takeaway from the show is, is just to...
Guest:Just to kind of let's question our perceptions a little bit.
Guest:It's just been this wonderful mechanism to talk about perception and consciousness, because I think that a lot of us, our brains have evolved to give us a perception that isn't always in our best interest.
Marc:Right, and we take for granted.
Guest:And we take for granted.
Marc:Well, it sounds great.
Marc:You know, I appreciate you talking to me about this.
Marc:It got me excited.
Marc:It made me feel kind of trippy, and I haven't been trippy in a long time.
Marc:But I will say this.
Marc:As much as, you know, you're excited about this, try to stay tethered.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.
Marc:And I'll look forward to talking to you in a year when you're dressed differently and wearing a lot of dangling things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:and you completely shifted over to that other perception this is one of many i love doing themed things this is i'm i'm hoping i'm putting together a show about behavioral economics right now and i'm hoping to talk about a lot of topics in the future this is one that's got me a lot of attention and it's been a fun show to put together and i'm just super excited it's now a 75 city tour which is going to be like it was originally going to be 30 or 40 cities and
Guest:And this is the biggest thing I've ever put together.
Guest:And people have been coming out to these.
Guest:I've been packing shows for the first time in my career.
Guest:And people like stand in line afterwards.
Guest:They want to tell me their stories.
Guest:They want to ask me.
Guest:I've never experienced anything like this.
Guest:That's great, man.
Guest:Congratulations.
Guest:It's really wonderful.
Guest:All right.
Marc:Thanks for having me.
Marc:Yeah, man.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:Go see Shane.
Marc:Sounds like a compelling show.
Marc:Sounds like you're going to need to get your mind blown afterwards.
Marc:Get your mind blown at the show and then go blow your mind with some stuff.
Marc:Let's do some trippy jams, man.
Marc:Yeah, man.
Thank you.
Marc:Boomer Lives!