Episode 76 - Willie Barcena / Steve Trevino / Carlos Responds
Marc:Lock the gates!
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Pow!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Guest:What's wrong with me?
Guest:It's time for WTF!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Mark Maron.
WTF?
Thank you.
Marc:okay let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuck nicks welcome to what the fuck wtf i'm mark maron thanks for coming by thanks for listening i do appreciate it and i hope you're having a good day a good morning a good afternoon a good night a good drive a good workout whatever the fuck you're doing some of you heard the the monday show i know i know man i it was unsettling to me in some ways but i think we uh we we were on to something there and
Marc:And as I said at the end of that show, I found that my conversation with Carlos Mencia was not as genuine as I like.
Marc:I felt a little taken for a ride in some ways, but I was still curious and I wanted to do more work, and I did.
Marc:What I did was, on the recommendation of friends of mine, I reached out to some of the Latino comics.
Marc:And on this episode, we're going to talk to Willie Barsena, who has been doing comedy for years.
Marc:He's a very respected Latino comic.
Marc:He's done a Comedy Central Hour.
Marc:He's done radio.
Marc:He's done The Tonight Show.
Marc:He's known Carlos Mencia for years.
Marc:So I wanted to to get to the bottom of some of the things that I thought were issues.
Marc:And then we talk in this episode to Steve Trevino, who also a Latino comic from Texas, worked with Carlos as his opener and and lackey for for several years.
Marc:And I'm just broadening out this conversation because I felt I feel compelled to look at this.
Marc:There's something about the Carlos Mencia phenomenon that really speaks a lot to to the comedy business, to the how comics think and also to, you know, the the amazing power of.
Marc:of of of the internet and also something about bullying about you know behavior interpersonal behavior that you know can apply to anybody and also about you know work ethic personal morality it just got interesting but i i think really what we need to do now is is hear from uh willie barcena and steve trevino and then uh and then see if we can get carlos back on the line
Marc:My guest in the garage here at the Cat Ranch in Highland Park is Willie Barsena.
Marc:Multiple appearances on The Tonight Show.
Marc:Hour-long special on Comedy Central.
Marc:Has been around a long time.
Marc:It's interesting that I don't know your world and you don't know my world.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:That's the weirdest thing is that there are people who listen to this show and they think they know everything about comedy, but there's a whole Latino world out there.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And it's huge.
Guest:Yeah, it is, man.
Marc:Now, how often do you play, like, all Latino audiences?
Guest:You know, it depends.
Guest:It depends what city I'm in.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:You know?
Guest:I've been around a while, and my, you know, as we were talking earlier, man, Mike, I don't really specifically write...
Guest:to cater to the Hispanic crowd.
Guest:I mean, I'm proud of being Hispanic, but I think you cut yourself short and you make yourself too one-dimensional.
Guest:And sometimes, man, when I'm looking at my bills, I go, man, maybe I should do this.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Maybe I should write more low-rider jokes and stuff.
Guest:But you know what, man?
Guest:Honestly, I know that if I did that, that I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.
Marc:Well, that's interesting because we were talking in the kitchen there that you are Mexican.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Your mom's an immigrant.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I'm an immigrant, man.
Guest:I snuck in.
Guest:She snuck us in here.
Guest:It's funny because you hear all these stories of immigrants coming in and going through...
Guest:the wilderness and doing all this, right?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, my mom, man.
Guest:My mom was so clever, dude.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My mom, the way she brought me and my sister in, she paid this lawyer, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's funny because right now it's current because it was going on in Arizona.
Guest:You know, we got haircuts.
Guest:I remember the day that we left.
Guest:We got haircuts and we got brand new clothes, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she paid this lawyer some money and he had a nice Cadillac.
Guest:And to say that he was taking us to Disneyland.
Yeah.
Guest:So that's all.
Guest:The Border Patrol goes, where are you guys going?
Guest:Disneyland.
Guest:And that's it, bro.
Guest:And that was the end of that.
Guest:You were in?
Guest:Yeah, I was in.
Guest:Yeah, you know, my mom, she's a thinker.
Guest:She's like, well, why am I going to go through the hills where these kids might die and starve?
Guest:Or we could just dress them up and say, you're going to Disneyland and see Mickey, you know?
Guest:So, yeah.
Guest:And then you're in.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:And then your mom did all right.
Guest:She did real good, bro.
Guest:I mean, I grew up as a kid.
Guest:I grew up in Boyle Heights.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My mom, right when she got here, man, she was off and running.
Guest:She had three, four jobs.
Guest:And on top of those three, four jobs, she was going to school at night.
Guest:She became an insurance agent.
Guest:Within seven years of being in this country, she bought houses all over.
Guest:Right?
Guest:And with one of my teenage years, she took me to Australia.
Guest:She took me to Copenhagen.
Guest:She took me all over the country.
Guest:Just so you would see the world.
Guest:See the world.
Guest:And she never...
Guest:said, okay, we're Mexican, woe is me.
Guest:It was never that.
Guest:It was always she exposed me to different religions and different thoughts and just different things, man.
Guest:And I think the bulk of Hispanics
Guest:are that yeah are that but we don't see them because you know what i mean it's it's it's not yeah it's not it's not sensational you know but but if you really focus on the on the lowrider and the gangs and and your your mom made menudo and and things like that man and then people think oh wow look man it's
Guest:That's all true.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, that's who we are.
Guest:You can go to the wars, World War I and World War II and Korea.
Guest:I mean, come on.
Guest:I think you and I have similar likes.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:We haven't talked, but I mean, the guy that I really look up to is Lenny Bruce.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I really like Lenny Bruce.
Guest:And then, obviously, Pryor, Bill Hicks.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, those guys, man.
Guest:Those guys that are willing to say what really happened.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:You know, looks, man.
Guest:Hollywood is the piece of pie for Latinos in showbiz is a sliver, man.
Guest:It's a very, very small piece.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now, what happens is Hollywood says, okay, all you comedians, you guys, here's your piece, you know, which it's almost see-through, you know?
Guest:And it's been proven.
Guest:And it's stereotype.
Guest:Yeah, but, you know, these guys are going to fight and scratch and claw and I think do whatever it takes.
Guest:to become famous, man.
Guest:Because there's people, come on, you've been around a long time, I've been around a long time.
Guest:My initial reason for being a comic was not to be famous, but it was to entertain, man.
Guest:As corny as that sounds.
Guest:And tell the truth.
Guest:And have the freedom of mind.
Guest:Yeah, man.
Guest:And I figured if I did that,
Guest:Everything else is going to fall in place.
Guest:Not true, man.
Guest:I didn't know that I was supposed to be doing MySpace.
Guest:I didn't know that I was supposed to get in people's emails.
Guest:Look at me.
Guest:I'm working out in my garage.
Marc:How the fuck are you?
Marc:All right, so basically what you're saying is that the competition is insane.
Guest:Yeah, and you know, listen, man, they've done a... I saw this on one of those 60 Minutes magazine, a magazine TV show, like 2020, where they show these...
Guest:everyday professionals man and they put them in a situation where they put them in a in a room where they had a literally you know fight for whatever situation they put them in right and these are good hard-working people or blue collar and white collar and everything and what they what the end result was that no matter who you are how good you are you know when you're when when you're your back's against the wall you're an asshole
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:Survival.
Guest:Survival.
Guest:Survival kicks in.
Guest:And I think this is what has happened to a lot of these comics.
Guest:So, you know, yeah, have they done bad stuff?
Guest:Yeah, I think they do.
Guest:Are they going to come forward and say that they did?
Guest:No, they never will, man.
Guest:And who am I to say?
Guest:Because, you know, back in, you know, maybe 10 years ago, I would get on the air and say, yeah, this guy's a thief and this guy's... And then, you know, then...
Guest:I just ended up sounding like a bitter dude because I don't have the show.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:You know, Patton Oswalt once said to me, and it was really genius, and he said it before he was famous or years ago when we were sort of starting out.
Marc:He said to me, the truth is hack.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:it's pretty ingenious because you know we're just comics and we live a life and if we want to talk to people like people people it's a pretty short menu of shit that people have to deal with we're not as evolved as we think we are right we're not as evolved yeah and that's the comedy of it it's like you know my wife annoys me i'm going broke you know i hope i don't die uh you know fuck that guy and that's it what else is there is there a god yeah exactly
Guest:The older I get, man, I could care less about what happens to these guys as far as stealing and what they're doing.
Guest:It was too much wasted energy on my part, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I was the comedy police for a while.
Guest:I was that guy.
Guest:I was the guy who'd go, hey, man, come here.
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:You know, you shouldn't... That's not your bid.
Guest:And then before you know it, you know, a couple years go by.
Guest:We should have been writing.
Guest:But you were friends with Carlos.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I'll tell you, and I told you earlier, you know, my...
Guest:What I think happened to Carlos, man, is he never got into writing, ever.
Guest:Like, ever.
Guest:He never got into writing.
Guest:And, you know, I used to go over to his house, and I used to say, hey, man, let's write.
Guest:And then we wouldn't write.
Guest:I mean, I would be there with my pen, my paper, like, come on, let's write.
Guest:And he just...
Guest:He just would do other things.
Guest:He was one of those guys that would love to sit in back of the comedy club and watch other comics.
Guest:And, like, what I think happens, man, is subconsciously, whether you're trying to do it or whether you're not trying to do it, you're going to pick up material, man, which is like, you know, yeah, we all have similar experiences as far as, yeah, everybody has a girlfriend, right?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Or a boyfriend, whatever, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Everybody has a relationship.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Everybody has a car.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I think if you sit in back of a club,
Guest:and you stay there for hours and hours, and you do it on Friday and Saturday, but you don't write during the week, I think you're bound to sound like another comic.
Marc:Yeah, but there's people that sound like other comics stylistically, and then there's topics.
Marc:And I think what happens with people that have that kind of mind...
Marc:is that they'll hear a joke, and they'll like the joke, and then they start adding to the joke they hear.
Marc:And within a few days, they can't see the source of the joke anymore in their head.
Marc:They can only see their angle on it.
Marc:But like you're saying, if somebody like Carlos, he just likes to...
Guest:blast you know he likes to get up there and blast you know okay is he okay and i'll put this is he a nice guy he's not the nicest guy i've known him forever uh about 15 18 years ago i did a show with all these young comics we were all young back then 18 19 years ago right yeah and it was like a it was a cinco de mayo with all these uh hispanic comics and then uh i remember carlos coming up to me and going hey i know why you did this
Guest:And I was doing it because I wanted to have a venue, man.
Guest:And the place doesn't even no longer exist.
Guest:It was called Carlos and Charlie's back then on Sunset.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And so I remember Carlos pulled me aside and he was like, I know why you're doing this, man.
Guest:And I go, why am I doing this, Carlos?
Guest:He goes, because you want to show everybody that out of all the Hispanic comedians, you're the best.
Guest:He goes,
Guest:Well, you're not the best.
Guest:I'm the best.
Guest:What are you talking about, dude?
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:He's that guy.
Guest:See, I wasn't raised like that, man.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:It's funny because before I became a comic, right?
Guest:I was a social worker, man.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Right down the street.
Guest:Over here?
Guest:Right down the street.
Guest:Yeah, I was a social worker because...
Marc:i just that was that's who i am there's a type of megalomaniacal personality right that that really in in the long run they don't give a fuck about anybody as long as they're on top yeah and they really don't no and and i can't understand that completely you know that when like because i can feel your heart and like and if i'm talking to some dude and he's sitting there going man i feel bad about it you know if someone feels bad about it
Marc:I don't give a crap, bro.
Marc:Yeah, man.
Marc:But I think that's also part of the macho legacy of the Latin culture, too, and I think that Carlos plays into that.
Marc:I think that he wants to be king shit, and once he became king shit, he wanted to make sure everybody knew he was king shit, and he was going to do whatever he had to do to make sure people knew it and kept their place.
Marc:Oh, yeah, man.
Guest:I mean, do you feel that?
Guest:You know what?
Guest:I think you might have something there because it does... Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I think in a lot of Latino...
Guest:and i was i was victim to that man i was victim like hey man i'm a man and you know man you know you better respect me and all that which is just a bunch of bull man which you know all it is is being macho to me is just being weak yeah you know because it's real easy it's like i always said man it's real easy to walk around with a pit bull or or a bulldog yeah and look mean right you know i always say i'm gonna see you walk around with a poodle and look mean you know what i mean that's really having some balls that's right
Marc:That's right.
Guest:Try to own that.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Well, I just got that feeling that after a certain point, that even with the idea that the stealing thing and all this with other comics, is that once you reach a level of success- Yeah.
Marc:If you don't have a conscience about what you've done to other people, and I think a lot of these guys, even when I talk to Robin, they don't know they do it necessarily, but once they've done it, at the stature they're at, it's done.
Marc:There's no unfucking it.
Marc:So in the long run, I guess what I'm learning from talking to you and in general is that we can absorb...
Marc:The community can absorb this crazy shit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The community, like, you know, because you don't seem to really have a beef with Carlos.
Guest:Oh, no, man.
Marc:I mean, it's like, whatever.
Guest:You know, just, yeah, the only thing I don't like is I don't like when he's around when I'm working in material.
Guest:And listen, bro, I have no problem.
Guest:Like I said, you know, hatred is wasted energy or anger and all that.
Guest:But the manager right now at the Improv, the guy who runs the showroom on Melrose, he'll tell you I was there about a year ago.
Guest:And I have all my notes, right?
Guest:All my new notes, all these new bits I'm working on.
Guest:And then I see Carlos walk in.
Guest:And I go, hey, everybody, Carlos Mencia's here.
Guest:And then everybody clapped.
Guest:And I said, you guys want to see him?
Guest:And everybody clapped, right?
Guest:I said, Carlos, come up here.
Guest:And then the manager goes, hey, I know why you did that, dude.
Guest:I said, hey, dude, people love Carlos.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And that's a beautiful story because, you know, there's a lot of guys that won't go on stage in front of him.
Guest:I just didn't, bro.
Guest:I won't, you know?
Guest:Because I don't want it to subconsciously attach to him.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:You're right here.
Guest:So if I can help him help himself, you know what I mean?
Guest:I'm here for him, bro.
Guest:All right, Willie.
Guest:You got it, bro.
Guest:Thanks, man.
Marc:Okay, well, here's what happened, Steve Trevino, who is nice enough to come over and talk to me about this.
Marc:You opened for Mencia for how long?
Guest:Like going on four years.
Guest:You still doing?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I don't work with him anymore, thank God.
Guest:And you guys were friends?
Guest:We were good friends.
Guest:As a Latino comedian, first of all, growing up, you know, I saw him on HBO and thought to myself...
Guest:That's the coolest guy because I mean, he's the, you know, that means I can make it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, I actually met Carlos Mencia when I was 18 years old and I opened up for him down in Corpus Christi, Texas.
Guest:And that was how our relationship began was me, you know, me meeting Mencia and Mencia.
Guest:And at the time I thought this guy's the best comic ever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's your hero.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's my hero.
Guest:I mean, this guy's selling out.
Guest:I mean, he's, you know, he's amazing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And ended up in the, I ended up on my own journey and we crossed paths in Dallas, Texas.
Guest:And at the time I was opening for, I was on the road a little bit with David Tell, Mitch Hedberg, God rest his soul, Lopez.
Guest:George, yeah.
Guest:And then Mencia kind of started hitting me up.
Guest:And I mean, by all means, I don't think these guys were hitting me up because I was a great comic.
Guest:I think it was more that I was very accommodating.
Marc:And thematically appropriate.
Guest:Yeah, and I'd hang out with these guys, and Attell would go, hey, go hit on that girl for me, and go get me a shot of Jaeger, and there I'd go running to hook him up or whatever.
Marc:So you did what you had to do to get to where you wanted to be.
Guest:Yeah, but I loved it.
Guest:These guys were my idols, and these guys were...
Guest:Or people that I admired as comics.
Guest:And then Mencia came back through Dallas.
Guest:You know, as a comic, you do kind of a rotation through the clubs.
Guest:And he came back through and he told me, he said, look, man, I want to take you on the road permanently if you're up for it.
Guest:And at the time, Lopez was about to get his TV show on ABC, the sitcom.
Guest:And Lopez basically told me, he goes, look, Mencia is a horrible human being and you shouldn't go with him.
Guest:And Lopez said, if you like, I can help you out.
Guest:The only problem is I'm not going to be doing standup that much because of the sitcom.
Guest:You know, maybe I get you on as a PA or something in LA.
Guest:My whole goal is to be a sitcom.
Guest:I mean, to be a comic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So Mencia goes, all right, man, I'll take you on the road.
Guest:And my first year on the road was with Pablo Francisco, Freddy Soto, God rest his soul, and Mencia.
Guest:And it was the Three Amigos tour.
Guest:And for me, it was unbelievable.
Guest:And that's when I first started hearing the rumors.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's when Freddy Soto would go, bro, don't trust this guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Bro, watch what you tell him, bro.
Guest:And when you're a young comic, you don't know.
Marc:Right, well, Freddy, too, I haven't talked about that yet, that Freddy Soto was a great Latino comic who died very young, a few years back, and it was, from what I understand, an incredible burden on him, the fact that Carlos seemed to be taking his material.
Guest:Yeah, it actually, Eleanor and I were talking about it the other day.
Marc:Eleanor works at the Comedy Store.
Guest:Works at the Comedy Store, and Eleanor and I were at the Comedy Store talking about it, and she says, you know, it really depressed Freddy.
Guest:And it was frustrating for Freddie, who was trying to make that next jump in his career.
Guest:And here's Mencia using his material on Mind of Mencia to continue to make more and more money.
Guest:Now, you wrote for that show.
Guest:I wrote on the first season of that show, yeah.
Marc:Now, OK, so OK, so you're back, you know, you're you're rolling with with Carlos for for a few years.
Marc:And what was your experience with that with it now that you knew the rumors?
Marc:And, you know, what was your experience with that?
Guest:Well, you know, the way that he would put it was, you know, like he would take a joke for me or I'd come up with a premise and I'd pitch it to him and then he would do it on stage and he'd go, bro, you work for me.
Guest:i pay you so so you would pitch jokes that you were working on for yourself for myself right i'd go oh man i got this idea about about x y and z and he'd go let me show you how to do it and then he'd go on stage and do it and before he knew it it was gone it was not no longer mine but at the time you know he would go look man i pay you week in week out i'm your income so basically you're writing for me so if i take something from you
Guest:It's legit.
Guest:It's legit.
Guest:You're writing for me.
Guest:And I'm like, you know what?
Guest:I don't care.
Guest:I'm on the road.
Guest:We were doing 50 weeks a year.
Guest:Probably one of the best times of my life.
Guest:You know, middling for him.
Guest:And then I was still living in Dallas, Texas at the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then you would hear the rumors and you'd hear the rumors, but not so much.
Guest:And then he wouldn't want me to move to L.A.
Guest:I would go, bro, I want to move to LA.
Guest:I want to continue my career.
Guest:And he'd go, no, no, no, no.
Guest:Stay in Dallas.
Guest:You're fine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now I realized that now that I came to LA, the reason he didn't want me to come to LA was because I'd find out all the BS.
Marc:Which was what?
Marc:He was doing.
Guest:What he was doing.
Guest:He was stealing and that kind of thing.
Guest:And his reputation.
Marc:Because on the road, you'd hear it very little.
Marc:Well, he admits in the interview that...
Marc:That he's had that reputation his entire career.
Marc:So, I mean, that must mean something.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:But the way he frames it, and what's interesting to me is that, you know, in my mind, look, if a joke is that easy to take, especially if it's an ethnocentric joke, that, you know, it becomes difficult to really trace the creator of it if it doesn't really have a trademark voice.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Or that the joke is completely creative.
Guest:I always tell people if a civilian can come up with the joke, then you're probably not onto it.
Marc:Right, and I'm not apologizing for anybody, but it just seems like even as I talk to Willie or I talk to you and I hear about George, this comes down to a personal matter.
Marc:The subject matters that Latino comics talk about in light of family, community, food, immigrant issues, these are fairly common premises.
Guest:Right, which is why I don't do those premises.
Guest:As a stand-up, I made a conscious effort to go, you know what, I'm not going to do anything Latino.
Guest:Everything I'm going to do is whatever's happening in my life.
Marc:Yeah, it's a weird thing about this because even after I talked to Willie and I talked to other people, I really think that there's a difference between being derivative or using stock premises and actually lifting someone's joke.
Marc:I mean, in a general sense.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Well, you know, and also, and that's the sad part about Mencia, I used to watch that guy day in, day out.
Guest:You know, we would do 50 weeks a year and we would do every major comedy club in the country and sometimes 10 shows a week.
Guest:And there was times where he'd have an hour and a half of original, amazing, funny stuff.
Guest:And then there's times where you're like, dude, why did you do that?
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, I remember watching him do a bit and I thought to myself, this guy's the greatest comedian ever because he just, first he tells me the idea.
Guest:I got this idea for a bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then that night he does like 20 minutes on that subject and I'm like...
Guest:This guy's amazing.
Guest:Then I'm watching Comedy Central, and I realize that it's a Jim Gaffigan bit.
Marc:So now the Cosby thing, I talked to Mencia about that, and he said, look, I'm not going to steal from an icon.
Guest:He told me that he had never seen Bill Cosby himself, that special, because I had called him out.
Guest:That day when we were filming that special, I was on set.
Guest:I was there for the whole thing, me and all the writers from The Mind of Mencia.
Guest:And the first person that I contact was Jeff Schimmel.
Guest:And I told Jeff Schimmel, I said, dude.
Guest:The other writer?
Guest:One of the writers.
Guest:Robert Schimmel's brother.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I told Jeff, I said, this guy is doing Bill Cosby.
Guest:He's got to stop.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That bit.
Guest:Yeah, that bit.
Guest:This is ridiculous.
Guest:We went over to Mencia's agent, his managers, and I told them all.
Guest:I said, look, people already think he's a thief.
Guest:He's already in trouble for that.
Guest:It's going to look bad on him.
Guest:Tell him to stop.
Guest:And this is me being Mencia's friend, trying to look out for the guy.
Guest:And there we are, the day of, and he goes into it.
Guest:And I'm like, oh, you got to be kidding me.
Guest:And then, of course, when the writers went in to edit the special, they edited that out.
Guest:And then later on, when Rogan found it, it was because they did the unedited version.
Guest:The DVD.
Guest:The DVD.
Guest:And then it came out.
Guest:But it was like, come on, dude.
Guest:And then Matias looks at me in the face and goes, I've never seen Bill Cosby himself.
Guest:And I'm like, really, dude?
Guest:That special is one of the most famous stand-up specials of all time.
Guest:You're telling me you have every comic in the country and every future comic in the country is going to watch that special.
Guest:There's no way.
Marc:I think I saw it when I was younger.
Marc:Yeah, I saw it very young.
Marc:Okay, I guess the big question for me is, because I talked to Willie, and he seems to believe, and this is something I encountered with Robin.
Marc:It's something I encountered with people that work at a frenetic pace that have to fill a lot of time.
Marc:Do you think that he literally says, I'm taking that bit?
Marc:Or do you think that he hears it and doesn't know that he's taking that bit?
Guest:I think he doesn't know.
Guest:I think that he's ill.
Guest:I think that he, you know, one time we were driving down the road before this TV show and he goes, how do you see it going down for you, Trevino?
Guest:And I said, well, man, when I'm famous, I want to have a tour bus and I want to tow my motorcycles around.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I go, that way, if I want to ride my bike, I can jump out of the tour bus, ride the bike cross country, right?
Guest:Guess who has a tour bus?
Guest:He does.
Guest:Guess who has motorcycles behind it?
Guest:See, it's almost sad.
Guest:It is sad.
Guest:And actually, I always tell people I laugh because I go, man, he's even stolen my best friend.
Guest:See, my best friend growing up, when we were on tour, I got him to tour with me and Mencia.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And now Joey still tours with me.
Marc:I ran into Joey.
Marc:He's the guy that put me in touch with him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Joey's my one, my best friend from growing up.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So let's talk about Freddie Soto.
Marc:A lot of people don't know Freddie Soto.
Marc:He was a up and coming Latino comic, very respected, you know, real deal guy.
Marc:And he passes away.
Marc:And he, I know he had tension with, uh, with Carlos.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I think a lot, I think me and Eleanor were talking and we really feel like part of what killed Freddie was Mencia.
Marc:The aggravation.
Guest:The aggravation and just, you know, here's Freddie struggling to pay the bills.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And here's Mencia using his bits and his material to continue to get richer and richer and richer.
Guest:And here's Freddie going, shit, man, I'm just trying to pay the bills.
Yeah.
Guest:And just the stress of that and the pressure.
Guest:And what are you going to do?
Guest:Are you going to call them out?
Guest:What does that accomplish?
Guest:And what happened after Freddie died?
Guest:Freddie died.
Guest:And like a week later, Mencia was doing Freddie's bits verbatim on stage at the improv.
Guest:And Dee, one of the managers, and Rita, the other manager, in the hallway are in this huge debate and argument.
Guest:uh whether to cut his mic or not and d is like you gotta cut his mic like this is ridiculous freddie just died and he's doing his bits and rita was like he's carlos mencia and of course this was at the height of you know minda mencia yeah and she was like i'm not gonna cut his mic d
Guest:And D to this day, me and her talk about it and she's like, I regret it, Steve.
Guest:I wish I would have cut his mic.
Guest:Here's a great story for you since we're on it.
Guest:Just remember, here's the kind of guy he is.
Guest:My first week ever to headline, I get booked at the Ontario Improv.
Guest:And I'm super stoked because it's like, man, real money now.
Guest:You're getting paid that bump in pay.
Guest:And this is the real deal.
Guest:And of course, I'm a little nervous because I'm like, I don't know if I have 45 minutes.
Guest:I know I can kill for the 15, 20 I've been doing.
Guest:So this is a big deal for me.
Guest:Mencia shows up, right?
Guest:And right before I go on stage, he goes, hey, I want to go up, do a few minutes.
Guest:And I go, absolutely, right?
Guest:No problem.
Guest:I walk on stage and I go, ladies and gentlemen, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for him.
Guest:Ladies and gentlemen, Carlos Mencia.
Guest:He walks on stage and does two hours.
Guest:I never go up.
Marc:And your name's on the marquee.
Guest:And my name's on the marquee.
Guest:It's my first week to headline.
Guest:First night to headline.
Guest:Two hours.
Guest:And then he goes, hey, let's get Steve back up here.
Guest:And I go, dude, I'm not going up.
Guest:I'm not following two hours of you.
Marc:Yeah, he did that to me once.
Guest:It's just amazing.
Guest:Actually, that's the last conversation.
Guest:Me and Ari Spears and Mencia were in the parking lot.
Guest:And I go, dude, there's a way to do it.
Guest:There's a way to bump people.
Guest:And he goes, what?
Guest:Who cares?
Guest:I'm Carlos Mencia.
Guest:And I'm like, dude, Chris Rock comes into the comedy store, doesn't bump people.
Marc:Not for two hours.
Guest:Not for two hours.
Guest:He comes in on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday to work on stuff that he's working on.
Guest:And he asked to go up.
Guest:You come in here and bump people for an hour.
Marc:So it's very complicated.
Marc:It's fairly complicated in terms of the way we live our lives and the opportunities we want to have, compromises we have to make in terms of relationships, and then just the pain of not knowing if someone's your friend.
Marc:I mean, we're all pretty selfish, but I'm glad you talked to me about it because I distinctly got the feeling when I was talking to him, and I'm not trying to...
Marc:I'm not trying to sandbag him or flank him by talking to other people.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's just that I felt that there was something missing from it.
Marc:And that he's very aware of his ability to charm and tell a story.
Marc:But I still, on some level, feel kind of bad.
Marc:Right.
Marc:that because when i see how hated he is i feel horrible for him just just as a person i'm like how do you fucking you know carry that burden of that much hate and what are you gonna do you know how are you gonna change there's nothing he can do to put that genie back in the bottle nothing and you know he's going to therapy and and you know but no one admits to stealing yeah nobody you know
Guest:And it's sad.
Marc:That's one thing I've noticed is that they'll all say, like, you know, maybe it's similar.
Marc:You know, like Robin even said, like, you know, my brain works in a certain way.
Marc:And you're saying that you think that Carlos might have that, too, because I just don't know anybody really who would sit there.
Marc:I mean, Eleanor claims that he wrote jokes down from people saying them.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I've never seen him do that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:His memory is impeccable.
Guest:Because he's sober as fuck.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:He's sober.
Guest:Maybe the drinking will help him start forgetting stuff.
Guest:But his memory is phenomenal.
Guest:His intelligence is phenomenal.
Guest:I mean, the guy is a genius.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've seen the guy recite things that we saw on Discovery Channel verbatim, and you just go...
Guest:wow so he's always filling it he's always looking for a way to to fit in and to to be you know like he must not but i remember him telling me he goes i just want to be known as the greatest comic ever and i'm like how sad must he feel now that he's known as the greatest thief comic ever thanks for talking to me thanks for having me
Marc:Being a reasonable man and in some ways trying to be fair.
Marc:I didn't want to sandbag Mencia or take what he said and mash it up with other people's things.
Marc:I wasn't trying to make an indictment.
Marc:I was trying to have a dialogue.
Marc:So after I talked to Willie Barsena and Steve Trevino, I was in the awkward position where I had to contact Carlos again to tell him we needed to do some follow-up.
Marc:Because I know things now that I didn't know then, and I want you to answer to them specifically.
Marc:So I texted Carlos, basically saying, look, I got to do some follow-up questions.
Marc:Why don't we do it on the phone?
Marc:Because I personally didn't want to have to do it face-to-face.
Marc:I admit that.
Marc:I was hoping we could do a phoner.
Marc:But within minutes, Carlos texted me back.
Marc:He said, I just landed at LAX.
Marc:I'll come from the airport, and I'll come over, and we'll do it.
Marc:So here it is, Carlos Mencia answering to some of the issues that were provoked by my conversations with Willie, Steve, other comics, and my need to get to the core of this personality.
Okay.
Marc:Let me tell you what's going on.
Marc:You know, I posted that I was going to talk to you.
Marc:And then, like, you know, I may envy your success, but I don't envy the amount of contempt there is out there for you.
Marc:Sorry.
Marc:No, I don't.
Marc:Do you think I envy it?
Marc:No, I know.
Marc:So what happens is, like, you know, when we talked first, I was approaching you as a peer, and we were going to discuss, you know, some of the Rogan thing and some of the more public accusations about stuff.
Marc:And, again, I didn't want to rehash any shit.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:sure and then all of a sudden i'm getting phone calls you know and someone's telling me you know talk to the latino guys talk to you know the guys that knew him talk to his friends and i'm like well i'm not looking to indict but i am looking to get at some sense of truth so you know i talked to trevino yes i talked to barcena yes and uh and we just got to address a couple things let's do it man all right
Marc:all right now first off i got a personal thing that i didn't bring up before but it came up you know numerous times and i want to know what you know where you what you say about it now granted i'm willing to let you be an all right i'm willing to know that you're you know you obviously did what you had to do to get where you are and there is a certain power trip about it i understand that sure okay one time i was doing the improv i was headlining
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you came and bumped me and did like 45, 50 minutes now.
Marc:And then I left because I was like, you know, fuck that.
Marc:Fuck him.
Marc:Right.
Marc:OK.
Marc:Now I see that this is a pattern that, you know, you bump adliners and you do an hour to two hours.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now, is this a territorial thing?
Marc:Are you saying, fuck you?
Marc:This is, you know, I'm I'm the boss.
Marc:Be honest.
Guest:I'll be honest with you, man.
Guest:It was, remember last time we were talking, that's what happened to me.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Eddie Griffin didn't never apologize.
Marc:But he's the one guy.
Guest:No, man.
Marc:At the comedy store?
Marc:Okay, at the comedy store.
Guest:At the comedy store?
Marc:Are you telling me there's no territoriality to you saying, fuck you, who's the biggest dick in town?
Guest:No, it's my only way of dealing with how hateful
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:So you're saying that you do it out of spite?
Guest:Yeah, I do.
Guest:So what's your beef with me?
Guest:Why'd you go teach me a lesson?
Guest:Well, that's fucking... That's just like me being an asshole and me being... You know what I mean?
Guest:Taking it... You know, just... It's one of those things where... Especially before.
Guest:Man, it was like...
Guest:i i felt like especially guys like you you know what i mean who came from that different school uh-huh you know what i mean if you wanted to school me who came to not school you as much as like you know fuck you okay i am my comedy isn't to be shit on you know what i mean okay so you do alternative you do but i didn't personally shit on you oh no no you never did but you just had you were making an example but dude like you
Guest:Think about how difficult it is as a human being for me.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:You call me up and then you tell me that all these people are saying, no, fuck that.
Marc:You got to prove it.
Marc:They're not saying that.
Marc:This is me.
Marc:Everyone I talked to was very diplomatic.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I mean, some of them have empathy for what they see as your condition.
Marc:Right.
Marc:but but so you you did it was it was some swinging dick shit with that stuff you had some lessons to teach yeah man i mean it's it's still it still happens sometimes and when you feel it happening you're like fuck that guy i'm gonna go down there and do an hour to an hour and a half in front of him to show him who's boss bro listen when when you watch that tape and i don't know how many i've never seen it i mean the uh the the rogan thing that's yeah that's you know this is beyond that but
Guest:Here's the deal.
Guest:When you watch that or when they interviewed a bunch of comics at the comedy store and comics that I've never even taken anything from supposedly are like, oh yeah, he takes shit.
Guest:Right.
Guest:No, I get that.
Guest:When a guy like that, when I'm on stage, excuse me, at the comedy store and I look straight ahead and there's that little doorway that leads downstairs to the hall.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I see one of those guys.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's on the list after me.
Guest:Fuck him.
Guest:Fuck him.
Guest:Because I've tried to be nice to these guys.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I've walked up to Ari and been like, Ari, well, fuck you.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:All right.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:All right.
Guest:So when that happens and those guys are there,
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A part of me wants to be cool and be like, you know what?
Guest:Let me be a nice guy.
Guest:That shit don't work, though.
Guest:Yeah, because you're too angry.
Marc:No, it doesn't help the situation.
Marc:But do you think that bumping them and doing an hour helps?
Marc:No, but it doesn't hurt.
Marc:It doesn't hurt.
Guest:It makes you more of an asshole.
Guest:Maybe, but it doesn't hurt.
Guest:It doesn't stop them from talking shit.
Guest:It doesn't stop them from... Well, no one's going to stop talking shit because...
Marc:okay so so there if nobody's gonna stop talking shit right yeah no matter what i do they're not gonna stop talking i don't know if that's true though i don't know if it's no matter what you do because quite honestly like you know when i when i talked to steve you know you guys were friends he has empathy you know he has his beefs you know he said you bumped him down in uh in anaheim and did two hours on the first time he headlined bro let me tell you about about steve did you go to the ontario improv when he was headlining yeah
Guest:I don't remember that.
Guest:No, I swear to God, I don't.
Guest:Because I would tell you if I did.
Guest:But it's possible.
Guest:It's possible.
Guest:It's possible that I did it.
Guest:It's not possible that I did two hours.
Guest:That I wouldn't do.
Guest:No way would I do two hours before Headliner.
Guest:Maybe an hour.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:You did 50 minutes in front of me.
Guest:I know it.
Guest:Yeah, but that's different because it's the improv like here.
Guest:It's not one, two, three improv.
Marc:All right.
Marc:We've established the fact that sometimes if you feel it in your balls to go up and bump a headliner to show them who's boss, you'll do that.
Guest:to get even you know what but the way you put it i sound like a dick but you know what it's a dick move but it is all about dick it is okay it truly is all right moving it's like the only place it's the only fucking place man that i that i can get back at this shit that i can fucking find balance with it you know what i mean it's the only place but it doesn't it doesn't do anything to to to stop it
Guest:I've done, listen, listen, I've gone to the improv many times and not done 45 minutes.
Marc:No, I know, I know.
Marc:But what I'm saying is that what it does is that, you know, there's part of it in my mind, if I'm gonna look at it as a mythic battle.
Marc:Sure, sure.
Marc:Where that, wherever your career is or how everyone's thinking about you, you're gonna go in and say, fuck you, I'm still here.
Marc:Eat that shit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Moving on.
Marc:Freddie Soto.
Marc:Freddie was another opener of mine.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But Freddie passed away prematurely, had a heart attack, however it was.
Marc:And there are people that say that you caused him a lot of stress-
Marc:by doing his material on stage.
Marc:And more than that, that a week after he died, you went on stage with his jokes.
Marc:That's not true, man.
Guest:I mean, listen, that's the saddest thing ever.
Guest:I met Freddy out of love, man.
Marc:No, I know.
Marc:Look, the one thing I'm learning about you is everybody loves you.
Marc:It loved you.
Marc:You had good friends, but at some point it turned.
Marc:And at some point people started to distrust you.
Marc:They started to accuse you of stealing their shit.
Marc:They started being afraid to perform in front of you.
Marc:I don't know when that happened, but
Marc:i don't either it just comes down to you know if i i'm talking to you as a peer that you know you're concerned about you know your uh reputation and and what i'm saying is that you know if people are saying that you know a manager at the improv wanted to shut the mics off a week after freddy is dead uh you know because you're doing his shit that's first of all i didn't i don't even remember performing like at that time at that time when he passed away we could actually probably look at my schedule i
Guest:I guarantee you that I wasn't even in town at the time.
Marc:Is there a chance?
Marc:Let me just ask you something.
Marc:Is there a chance?
Marc:Because, look, I've talked to people about stealing before.
Marc:I've talked to people, and I am empathetic.
Marc:I'm not attacking you.
Marc:I understand.
Marc:Is there a chance that you absorb this shit, and you don't know that you're doing similar things or doing people's bits?
Marc:Is there a chance?
Marc:With openers, no.
Guest:With headliners, possibly.
Guest:But with openers, no, because what happens with guys like...
Guest:i won't even name names okay you you've denied that the with young guys yeah most of the time when they do a bit yeah i'm like i did that like 15 years ago i did the bit about the cougars 15 years ago so sometimes these guys have never seen that bit that i did in 1992 about you know having sex with a 40 year old woman well it's
Guest:could be the same with you in the in the cosby thing that you know you were a kid you might have seen that i fuck dude i wish i could tell you right now like i i swear to god i wish i could say look you know what man i've been an asshole and i want to change and i'm different than that guy that i was before and i'm not afraid and you know what i might have taken some people's shit and
Guest:And to those people, I apologize.
Guest:Because I know that everybody would be like, well, fuck.
Guest:Okay, good.
Guest:Like, I know how people work.
Marc:I know that they would- You know it too well, I think.
Guest:That's what I'm saying.
Guest:I know that they would say that, and I want to say that.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Like, I fucking do.
Guest:But-
Guest:I don't watch other people to take their shit.
Marc:Okay, so you qualified that by saying headliners maybe.
Marc:Maybe headliners.
Guest:Maybe I absorbed something from watching a headline that made me go, oh, fuck, you know what I mean?
Marc:Because I know what happens with some people's brains.
Marc:I talked to Robin Williams about this.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I talked to him specifically about it.
Marc:Sometimes people just got sponge brains, and their brains are working really quick, so you all of a sudden, you see a bit that you think is funny, and then you add a couple tags to it in your head, and a few days later, you don't remember that you saw the bit, you just remember what you added to it, and it's your bit.
Guest:Well, that I've consciously done what I have done is like, let's say I saw Paul Mooney do a joke about how black people do this.
Guest:And I went, oh, fuck.
Guest:Mexicans, you know, blah, blah, blah.
Guest:And like found that angle in that one joke.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:That I've consciously done.
Marc:That's just derivative.
Marc:That's not.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:There's a difference.
Guest:In that sense.
Yeah.
Guest:And I am a sponge, so to speak.
Guest:You know, I do remember, like, I don't write stuff down.
Guest:Like, I don't actually have written stuff.
Guest:I record it so that I can remember it.
Guest:But I'm also aware of, you know, jokes that I do that I go, ugh.
Guest:I don't know anybody specifically as much as I know that this is not.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like right now, there's this bit that I do about the president and, you know, how he's our first half white president.
Guest:That's the whole premise of it.
Guest:That he's not like, you know, ghetto black.
Guest:That's the whole thing.
Guest:But that's a stock premise at this point.
Guest:Yeah, but see, that's the stuff that I get nailed for.
Marc:Like some of the guys said, if Carlos would just do his shit, he knows how to do shit.
Marc:It seems that a lot of this stuff is hung up on shit that anybody could do.
Marc:Right.
Marc:They can't necessarily do it like you, but a lot of this discussion is about shit that is just fucking topical comment.
Marc:I don't even know why I'm getting angry in this conversation.
Guest:Well, you know what?
Guest:I learned something from being here last time.
Guest:The one was George.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And I forgot to tell you until I thought about it because you said...
Guest:You said something that made me think about it.
Guest:And later I went, oh, fuck.
Guest:When I went up to George and said, I didn't take your shit.
Guest:George accepted that George is like, OK, but you should stop doing it anyway, because I've been doing it longer than you out of respect.
Guest:And you know what?
Guest:Today, today I would do that.
Guest:Back then, when I wanted to prove to myself and the world that I was funny, I took that as an affront.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:That's one I wish I could have back.
Marc:Yeah, I think there's a little Latino macho thing going on between you and George.
Marc:But I like George.
Marc:I like George's stuff.
Marc:I like all these guys' stuff.
Marc:But you guys compete.
Marc:We all compete, but it just seems like the competition element of trying to be a success has driven you to perhaps involuntarily absorb other people's material and fuck people off.
Guest:Fuck people off, yeah.
Guest:Piss them off, yeah.
Guest:Do dick shit, yeah.
Guest:Absorb their shit on purpose.
Marc:I didn't say on purpose.
Guest:Involuntarily.
Guest:Even involuntarily.
Guest:I mean, look, it's been going on for way too long for me to be naive about it.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:At this point,
Guest:I would say to you from an outside, he's doing it on purpose.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:If it's happening, it's on purpose.
Marc:Now, you would be.
Guest:Yeah, because this isn't the first time this came up.
Guest:It didn't happen a year ago.
Guest:I mean, it went public a long time.
Marc:You said it's been coming at you for your whole career.
Guest:It's been coming at me for, yeah.
Marc:So you're saying it's not on purpose.
Guest:No, I don't.
Guest:I'm saying not only that, I'm like really conscious of staying away from any shit that's personal.
Guest:There are guys now that won't go on stage in front of you.
Guest:That's not true, man.
Guest:Nobody that I know of except for Ari.
Guest:Ari is the only person that I know of that actually didn't.
Guest:I've done big shows with Bill Burr.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:It just gets perpetuated to a point where the stories of it...
Marc:become better than the actual and you know what and you're right act itself right that's why you know when i got in the mire of this like it was not my intention to rehash anything but i did want to give you the opportunity to come back here and deal with this shit i've i've never dealt with it like this and like i said listen you know no gaffigan jokes gaffigan
Guest:Now, he whispers.
Guest:Now, one time I whispered a whole show, but this was probably like in 1998.
Guest:So it was probably before I even knew of any of his stuff.
Guest:But, you know, look, if I've seen him, I could tell you what they do and how they do it.
Guest:And I stay away from that shit, you know?
Guest:He's from the, look at him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Or with, you know, Wendy, where... Yeah, where she'll just... Throw a side to punchline.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah, technique, yeah.
Guest:I get all that stuff.
Guest:And, you know, like I said, a lot of this stuff is...
Guest:A lot of this stuff becomes personal, most likely because, you know, I am kind of a guarded human being when it comes to that stuff.
Guest:What do you want to say to everybody?
Guest:You know what?
Guest:To whatever anybody has thought that I've done to them, you know, I'm sorry, man.
Marc:What about to the audience?
Guest:To my audience, you know, well... And to the people that you're dissenters.
Guest:I don't know what to say to them.
Guest:Like...
Guest:You've asked me every question.
Guest:I haven't sidestepped any.
Guest:Do you know what I'm saying?
Guest:I haven't tried to sidestep it.
Guest:I've answered it as honestly as I can.
Guest:I mean, and more so now than even last time.
Guest:Because I felt like last time,
Guest:There was still a sense of agenda on my behalf.
Guest:I felt that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But that's because I want people to like me.
Guest:I really do.
Guest:I know.
Guest:And what happened was this morning, ironically, ironically, bro, this morning, I'm driving.
Guest:Well, I wasn't driving.
Guest:I was in a car and I started writing about this.
Guest:Just not funny stuff.
Guest:Just, you know, I'm watching the sunrise.
Guest:The journey, you know, that I've been through is amazing.
Guest:Yet because of my fears, it seems I'm never satisfied.
Guest:Don't misunderstand.
Guest:I've always been happy.
Guest:It's just that, you know, having been born in a village and raised in this country has been.
Guest:And so that's what this was about.
Guest:It was literally me going, you know.
Guest:I've cared so much about what people think about me that it has led me to negative behavior.
Guest:It has led me to go on stage and say, fuck you, because I was worried about.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Not me.
Guest:I mean, part of like going on stage at the comedy store that I used to love was, and this was even a bigger asshole move than doing a long time.
Guest:You know what I used to do at the comedy store about four, five, seven years ago?
Guest:I used to go on stage.
Guest:Well, I used to hang out when there was a bad crowd.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And just watch the comics go, this crowd sucks.
Guest:This crowd sucks.
Guest:This crowd sucks.
Guest:This crowd sucks.
Guest:You know, that kind of, everybody's having shitty sets.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I'd go up on stage and have a really great set.
Guest:And right at that moment where you know I have them, I would look back at my brother and go, how long was that, bro?
Guest:And he'd go, five minutes.
Guest:And I'd be like, that's it.
Guest:Good night, everybody.
Guest:Like, that was just me going.
Guest:That's how you do it, fuckers.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:But a lot of that was to myself as well.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:to prove to myself that you know you got it you can still do this that was um that was before the tv show you know what i mean that was before realizing that i don't want to do things out of fear i want to do things out of love for for me for my audience for
Guest:for other comics, you know what I mean?
Marc:I hope you succeed in turning that around.
Guest:I don't know that I can, and that's the hard part.
Marc:You can't.
Marc:I'm serious.
Marc:It's why people, some people do it, they have religious experiences.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you ever just sit down and I think what I sense the last time we talk was that, you know, you say that, you know, you're sorry and you say that, you know, this makes you feel bad.
Marc:But do you experience the sadness of it?
Marc:I mean, you know, some people have said that you're pathological.
Guest:Yeah, I experience that when I'm alone.
Guest:What happens?
Guest:Do you cry?
Guest:Yeah, man.
Guest:Seriously?
Guest:Dude, I get depressed and I don't leave the house.
Guest:I mean, but I can't show anybody that.
Guest:But when I'm dealing with this shit alone...
Marc:Fuck yeah, it hurts.
Marc:You're a real comic and you got some real fucking problems.
Marc:And that's, you know, there are problems inside you, there are problems outside of you.
Marc:But I still can't take away the fact that, you know, you earned your place and you've made it work.
Marc:And not everyone can do that.
Marc:And there's a certain amount of spite that comes towards people because of that.
Marc:And these other things... I've done everything I can to talk through this stuff.
Guest:And you've been... Was there some burning question that these guys had that these guys... You know what I mean?
Guest:I truly...
Marc:actually nobody you know nobody actually was that negative you know they you've been sort of like in the community it's it's now a given there are certain things that are given here's here here are the three points you know what they are you know mencia steals so i don't want to go on in front of him or you know he stole this guy's shit he stole that guy's shit okay the other one is he bumps people to teach him a lesson okay uh the other one is uh you know you
Marc:you know, he won't take responsibility for any of this shit, and he has no friends, and it's because he's an asshole.
Guest:Well, I don't have friends in the business.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:Well, that's not true.
Guest:I mean, I do have, but outside of comedy, but a big part of it is, like, when I, I'm just not into the, I'm just not into blaming other people for my shit.
Guest:I do take responsibility for my shit, you know?
Guest:We've conversed about this a while.
Guest:You've never heard me say they're the reason that I lost my show or there's the reason that ratings dropped.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:I've never blamed any of those people for anything.
Marc:And these guys were pretty diplomatic too because the interesting thing is that they understand you.
Marc:And whether your view of what you do or whether their view of what you do,
Marc:is different, they understand you and they act in relation to that understanding.
Marc:And some of them are talking from experience and some of them are... The guys who are talking shit, I'm not interested in them.
Marc:Right.
Guest:To Willie, I will apologize personally to Willie because I did say some shit about him that came off way fucked up on stage.
Guest:But I didn't mean it the way it sounded.
Guest:I just...
Guest:I'm very blunt, and it was just not right.
Guest:It was not cool the way I said it.
Guest:What was it?
Guest:Well, it was back in the day when the LA Cabaret used to be open.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Jeez, that's a long time.
Guest:And I said, this guy is going to be really, really funny someday.
Guest:And then I said, you know, Willie Barsena.
Guest:But I didn't mean to say he's not funny.
Guest:I meant to say like this guy just is going to blow it out of the park.
Guest:I don't remember everybody there.
Guest:But there was one time that I did say in front of a bunch of Latino comedians, of all you guys, and I think I pointed to Gabriel Iglesias.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I said, you're going to make it in stand-up.
Guest:You love stand-up.
Guest:you are going to do whatever it takes.
Guest:You're going to write.
Guest:You're going to do it.
Guest:This isn't something... If you get a TV show, you're still going to do stand-up.
Guest:I said, the rest of you guys, you don't love it that much.
Guest:As soon as you get a TV show, you'll stop doing stand-up.
Guest:And it wasn't very popular at the time.
Guest:And you know what?
Guest:I shouldn't have fucking...
Guest:I didn't need to open my fucking mouth in the first place.
Marc:There's no reason for me to say shit like that.
Marc:Yeah, we all do.
Marc:I've said shit like that.
Marc:But you know what?
Marc:It's interesting that you say that because I think in closing, I can honestly say that you love stand-up.
Guest:I love stand-up, man, more than anything in the world.
Guest:I know, man.
Guest:More than my wife, more than my kid, more than, there's nothing.
Guest:There's nothing I've ever done that feels as amazing as making people happy.
Guest:But it's not fun anymore.
Guest:Not like that.
Guest:Well.
Guest:It's just not fun anymore, you know what I mean?
Guest:Well, I hope you can get back to a place where it's fun again.
Yeah.
Guest:It was this weekend, last weekend I was performing.
Marc:Okay, so it's really a show for show thing.
Guest:Well, because they weren't there and I gotta get all these demons out.
Guest:What are you doing now to change?
Guest:I was at the Comedy Store the other night.
Guest:I went up at 1 o'clock.
Guest:So, you know, I'm trying to go up later.
Marc:Can we try to make an agreement that you won't bump people just to teach them a lesson?
Guest:Yeah, you know what?
Guest:That's something that I've seriously, like, you know what I mean?
Guest:All right.
Guest:Considered.
Guest:And just recently, it's like I've been going to the store much later, doing a half hour instead of longer, but going on at one o'clock in the morning.
Guest:But you know what?
Guest:If you were to call Tommy, the comedy store guy, he will tell you that even within the past year or two, when I show up, he goes...
Marc:listen is it okay if john caparillo and this guy and that guy go on before you because yeah they're gonna piss you off yeah and i'm like yeah no problem yeah you did i you know you did that you waited for me to go on once the last time you were there i was they were like you i was like i'm not i'm not bumping him good well i appreciate that and that you're you're you're very highly aware of of the the stealing thing so you're ultra sensitive to that stuff
Guest:I'm ultra sensitive.
Marc:You double check now with people if you think you got a bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Who did I call the other day?
Guest:God, I called the comedian the other day and I was like, hey, I did this thing on stage.
Guest:Is that Johnny Sanchez?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I called up Johnny and I'm like, do you do something like this?
Guest:What did he say?
Guest:And he was like, well, this is what I do.
Guest:And I was like, well, before you do, let me tell you what I did so that you can understand.
Guest:And what happened?
Guest:And he was like, no, no, no, that's that's really not my bit.
Guest:And I was like, oh, OK, because that one I did go.
Guest:as soon as i did it i said i've heard that shit before yeah you know i've heard that somewhere that's not an original yeah it doesn't sound or feel like an original i know what that feels like to have that thought i was like oh what the fuck was that and then i went johnny sanchez you know what i mean so i called him that night when i got off stage and you know it was whatever yeah i mean i i'd work it out with any of these guys but what i realized
Guest:This morning, that is not about them.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I shouldn't do things for them.
Guest:I should do things for me.
Guest:And when I get off stage at the comedy store or any of those places, after doing a long time and I just run, it doesn't feel good.
Guest:It doesn't feel good that I know that I bumped people.
Guest:It doesn't feel good that I know that I fucked up somebody's night.
Guest:It doesn't feel good that you left.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Having that been your show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That doesn't feel good.
Guest:It doesn't make me happy.
Guest:It doesn't turn me on.
Guest:It does when it's those pieces of shit.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:That does.
Guest:But it makes me look like a fucking asshole.
Guest:And you know what?
Guest:Whatever they think of me, I shouldn't do that to them.
Guest:Because as much as they're trying to ruin my livelihood by putting it out to everyone in the world, that my art is shit, nobody should buy it, that even though all these guys want to take not just the comedy, but, you know...
Guest:livelihood some of these guys would be happy to take my livelihood um it it doesn't condone me doing the same to them by performing so long that they don't get to perform in front of you know a decent audience and get that comedy time that that they should get and and in that respect
Guest:I do take responsibility for that.
Guest:And for that, I am sorry that I'm doing the same shit, just in a different way to them.
Guest:And I just don't want to be that person anymore.
Guest:To anybody that feels, you know, harmed by me, I do apologize, man.
Guest:For anybody that I've actually harmed in this business on the way to wherever I am.
Guest:Yeah, you know, to you, I apologize.
Guest:I mean, you know, you never did anything to me to deserve that.
Guest:Ever.
Guest:I mean, never.
Guest:And, you know...
Guest:I just always felt like the fucking whole world was against me, bro.
Guest:And if I seemingly absorb somebody's shit without knowing it, like I said, I'm hypersensitive to it.
Guest:I can't imagine that I would without being somewhat aware of certain jokes.
Guest:But if anybody believes that it's their joke, that that's the one joke that you think is going to take you to the top or that one joke that you think is going to get you on TV.
Guest:Write some new jokes.
Guest:no man call me you know what i mean call me and i'll drop it i swear to god all right i mean listen yeah i i can write new shit okay i can think of new stuff all right but don't don't slander you behind your back well just come up to me man i think that's right i think come up to me and say someone steals from my shit right that's the way it should be handled
Guest:you know between the guy who feels like he's been stolen from and the guy who we think stole it yeah and you know if at that point i'm an asshole then go for it yeah go talk about me yeah go say he's a piece of shit it was one fucking joke and that was it you know what i mean um do that but you know the the internet thing and the it's just gotten to the point where it's ridiculous and this morning i really did let it go
Guest:I guess I really do want to be perceived as a nice guy until I get pissed off.
Marc:And as a good comic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's hard for me to fucking give in to that because it brings in so much pain, bro.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, let's not do it.
Marc:Let's just say thank you.
Marc:Do you know what I'm saying?
Guest:I think you've... But I do want people to know that I feel that pain.
Marc:I felt it for a couple minutes.
Guest:Yeah, and then I get out of it.
Marc:Well, yeah, of course.
Marc:I mean, you don't want to live in it.
Marc:That's why we're comics.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I know, but you know what I'm saying.
Guest:It's like I go there and I'm like, fuck, man, I'm that guy.
Marc:It's overwhelming.
Guest:I'm the fucking... And it's not like Robin Williams.
Guest:It's not like Milton Berle.
Guest:It's something different.
Guest:This is like... It is.
Guest:People that don't know comedy.
Guest:On the other hand, I want... Especially comics at the comedy store who don't like me, I really want you to know this.
Guest:Seriously.
Seriously.
Guest:I have a couple of friends who want to come and beat the shit out of you.
Guest:For real.
Guest:Like fuck you up.
Guest:And I tell them not to because for whatever reason, let me not interpret my own behavior.
Guest:But I will tell you that a few comics were like, dude, just, just, I just want to go to the comedy store, bro.
Guest:I just want to go to the comedy store and I know the guys and it was going to knock them the fuck out and tell them to stop.
Guest:And I'm like, nah, bro, that's not what I want.
Guest:That's not who I am.
Guest:That's,
Guest:You know, I may be a dick on stage, but that's not why I'm so... Like, I want those people to know that, you know, despite of what you think, I have, you know, stopped bad shit from happening.
Guest:There is a line, so to speak, you know, that I won't cross.
Guest:I've never been confronted...
Guest:like this about why i go on stage for so long and i've never wanted to because it's ugly but i'm glad that i'm glad that that that mirror was pointed in my direction because you know i that's some shit that i shouldn't do regardless of who's going on before or after me thanks carlos
Marc:Where does this all leave us?
Marc:I mean, after talking to him and talking to him the first time where I felt like I was being played a little bit and he was presenting me with a fairly well-honed defense of his particular situation as he sees it, and then having him back into the studio, back into the garage to answer more specifically to certain claims, there were two different things going on in those interviews.
Marc:I mean, clearly...
Marc:He was waffling.
Marc:He was going in and out of anger, contrition, some guilt, trying to explain himself.
Marc:There was definitely there's something at the core of this guy where he obviously feels bad somewhere in there about a lot of things, yet he tries to justify it.
Marc:Is he a sociopath?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Do we all have sociopathic qualities?
Marc:If you look at the definition of antisocial disorder, most comics have a few of them.
Marc:Certainly self-centeredness, grandiosity, occasionally the inability to empathize or to have a conscience.
Marc:I mean, this stuff is all percolating in Mencia.
Marc:But the interesting thing to me is that this guy is just, he's wired differently.
Marc:Did he steal?
Marc:I think so.
Marc:I mean, you can make your own opinion.
Marc:Did he know he did?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:But this is a guy who we talked to initially that his first experience doing stand up was from a joke book.
Marc:His first impulse was to I don't know how to do this.
Marc:I'm funny.
Marc:I want to be funny.
Marc:I got to find some jokes.
Marc:He doesn't write.
Marc:That was clear.
Marc:He's got an incredible memory.
Marc:He's incredibly ambitious.
Marc:He does his work.
Marc:Doesn't write.
Marc:Is he absorbing things?
Marc:Is he doing other people's stuff?
Marc:You decide.
Marc:I think it's clear.
Marc:But the interesting thing to me on another level is the personality is that this is a guy that didn't do drugs.
Marc:He didn't drink.
Marc:He he minded his own business.
Marc:He was a pariah even before he became a reputed thief and an asshole.
Marc:He had personality problems in the sense that he didn't treat people well.
Marc:He was kind of a dick.
Marc:But in in.
Marc:thematically in terms of what we talk about a lot on this show, is that his addiction was really the power of making people laugh and making as many people laugh as possible.
Marc:And that he would do anything to get that buzz.
Marc:That he would feed that monster.
Marc:He would feed that addiction.
Marc:He would just absorb whatever jokes he wanted to do.
Marc:So when he got on stage, he could feel powerful.
Marc:He could feel funny.
Marc:He could feel in control.
Marc:He could feel like, you know, he was the...
Marc:planet itself and and the choices he made either consciously or unconsciously to feed that monkey on his back has put him in the position that he's in now now in terms of you know is he a good person do people make bad choices in their life over and over and over again are they shitty people well that's for you to decide I mean clearly he feels that he was in certain respects yeah and he feels that he has a burden to carry which he does and
Marc:And he feels that he made some mistakes.
Marc:I don't know if he's going to change.
Marc:Everybody makes compromises on some level.
Marc:But I think what determines whether or not people will accept it is how big of an asshole you are and how you treat other people.
Marc:Now, it becomes clear to me that, you know, Carlos is a bully and Carlos is very self-centered.
Marc:He's grandiose.
Marc:He does lie.
Marc:It goes in and out, but whatever.
Marc:And bullies will be bullied.
Marc:And I think if you look at the Joe Rogan situation, if you look at that situation that happened at the comedy store, a couple of things were going on.
Marc:A lot of that stuff was bullshit.
Marc:A lot of that stuff was over stock material.
Marc:A lot of that was a cockfight that took place at the comedy store, which is a demonic hellhole of a castle of pain that generates this kind of tension.
Marc:But it was really a bully on bully fight about bullshit.
Marc:You know, Rogan was posturing.
Marc:Mencia was posturing the topics of what was being postured about, you know, whether he changed his name, whether he wasn't really Mexican.
Marc:This was just a bully, a guy like Joe Rogan, who was like, you know, fuck you.
Marc:And if you got a problem with that, I'll kick your ass.
Marc:And make no mistake, Carlos Mencia was designed and created by the Comedy Store.
Marc:And this was really a turf battle that got captured on tape and it became an international incident, which is interesting to me just by virtue of the fact that I believe that this stuff should stay within the community and be dealt with with the people involved.
Marc:And because of the Internet, you know, everybody got involved.
Marc:So now there's a lot of people out there and some of you I'm speaking to right now who think that your job is to police comedy and
Marc:It's a sad indication of where we're at now in the sense that nothing is really personal.
Marc:Nothing is within the community.
Marc:Everything can become a global event.
Marc:You know, there were issues that were real and I think we dealt with them here.
Marc:But there are a lot of people out there plinking away on their keys, making judgments about people's lives that are just bullies.
Marc:Bullies beget bullies.
Marc:And that's a reality.
Marc:I don't think it's good.
Marc:I think that this stuff can be dealt with without destroying somebody's career.
Marc:Another interesting thing is that I don't know many comics that aren't derivative.
Marc:I don't know many comics that haven't gone through periods of their career where they were literally doing other people's not acts.
Marc:But style, I see it all the time.
Marc:Somebody steals or appropriates unconsciously out of a desire to be like the person that they respect the style.
Marc:You know, most people, they'll go through an Attell period, a Hedberg period, a Todd Berry period, a Hicks period, you know, whatever.
Marc:You know, you have to learn how to do what you do.
Marc:by emulating.
Marc:And I think that's something you see, certainly in the Carlos thing, is that there was an attempt at mimicry.
Marc:That given the fact that he's not a joke writer, that is established, that his real drive is to be funny and feed this power trip that he has and feel at one with the world by owning a room of 5,000 people, also making money.
Marc:But I think that everybody,
Marc:And goes through at least a phase of being derivative.
Marc:And this is another problem with the Internet.
Marc:And because of YouTube and because of everything else is that nobody can develop in private anymore.
Marc:Everything has to be public.
Marc:You know, you can't even do a new joke.
Marc:If someone's in there with a cell phone, they burn it before it's even a full joke on the Internet that there's no there's no privacy whatsoever just to sort of move through your phases.
Marc:The thing I'm building up to here is that everybody is derivative, but people pick whipping boys.
Marc:They pick people to beat up.
Marc:They pick people to bully.
Marc:I don't know what the real point of all this was other than to explore a comedic mindset and to explore somebody who has been villainized, who has been made a pariah, and to sort of sync that up with the way the comedy mind works, with the way the comedy community works, with who gets hurt.
Marc:A couple of things that we learned here is that if you're an asshole, it's going to come back to you.
Marc:If you're a thief, it's gonna come back to you.
Marc:And because of the world we live in now, you might never be able to live it down.
Marc:Also, I'm finding that most people that do this, somewhere inside them, it is causing their conscience trouble and pain.
Marc:So what do we come away with?
Marc:Here's what I know.
Marc:Hack jokes are hack jokes.
Marc:They are what they are.
Marc:They're inevitable.
Marc:Stock premises are everywhere.
Marc:They're inevitable.
Marc:Can you protect your hack jokes and your stock premises?
Marc:Probably not.
Marc:Can you do it legally?
Marc:Probably not.
Marc:Do comedians need some sort of legal protection of original material?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Given that stealing is bad.
Marc:It's a bad thing.
Marc:Stealing jokes is a bad thing.
Marc:It hurts people.
Marc:It robs people of their ability to engage in their own creativity.
Marc:Certainly.
Marc:Being derivative exists.
Marc:It's inevitable.
Marc:Everything is derivative.
Marc:To what degree your derivative, that's up to you and how much you can find and honor your own voice.
Marc:That's where that stands.
Marc:The comedy community has dealt with this shit before.
Marc:We know who the thieves are.
Marc:We know when someone steals their own joke.
Marc:We know how to handle that.
Marc:It is something we've been dealing with for years and years.
Marc:And we deal with it.
Marc:Now, when in this situation, the real question is, is that do you all feel good
Marc:out there in the darkness, jumping on a bandwagon to try to destroy somebody, to try to assassinate somebody's character to the point where either they're incapacitated completely from working, from functioning as a person, from engaging or enjoying their life.
Marc:I mean, is that satisfying?
Marc:I know it is.
Marc:I know it feels good.
Marc:To say, fuck you, you suck.
Marc:You're terrible.
Marc:You should die.
Marc:You should go work at McDonald's.
Marc:It's all very satisfying to be a bully, especially when you can just do it behind a screen name.
Marc:But my real question is, is if somebody is willing to change or trying to change or actually does change, is that interesting?
Marc:Is that satisfying?
Marc:To say that somebody is owned up to something?
Marc:To say that somebody is different now?
Marc:Is that going to be as viral?
Marc:Just a question.
Marc:This has been very interesting for me.
Marc:I hope it was for you as well.
Marc:You can go to WTFPod.com for any WTFPod needs.
Marc:You can get your JustCoffee.co up there.
Marc:You can please get on the mailing list.
Marc:You can donate a little money.
Marc:We are listener-supported.
Marc:If you want some comedy news, go to PunchlineMagazine.com.
Marc:Get all your comedy information there.
Marc:And also, Stand Up Records has a great roster of stand-up comedians, myself included, Maria Bamford, Stan Hope.
Marc:You can go to StandUpRecords.com for that stuff.
Marc:And be well, and I hope this provokes some thought.
Marc:Thanks for listening.