Episode 753 - Sarah Jessica Parker
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck, buddies?
Marc:What the fucksters?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my show, WTF, the podcast.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:How is everybody?
Marc:How's your Monday going so far?
Marc:How can I help you?
Marc:Is everything okay at this table?
Marc:Do you need anything?
Marc:Would you like me to refill that for you?
Marc:Before I start talking about myself or whatever ridiculousness is in my head, I'd just like to acknowledge and express my sadness over the passing of Kevin Meaney.
Marc:who was a very, very funny guy, a great comic, a real original, and just purely, purely entertaining.
Marc:And I used to see him a lot in Boston when I started out.
Marc:There was actually a night, it might have been at Stitches, the Sweeney and Meany show with Steve Sweeney and Kevin Meany.
Marc:I believe he started there, so I got to see him a lot.
Marc:And...
Marc:He was just a completely entertaining guy, and he died, I believe he was 60, which is too young.
Marc:I don't know the situation or the conditions surrounding it, but I just wanted to acknowledge the fact that we lost a really funny man.
Marc:So rest in peace, Kevin Meaney.
Marc:And we know you don't care.
Marc:That was a bit he did.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Sarah Jessica Parker is on the show today.
Marc:I did this interview in New York City in a hotel room.
Marc:And I watched a few episodes of Sex and the City.
Marc:I like it, but I like her.
Marc:She's one of those people that's just present in the media landscape.
Marc:She is a shining star, and I always liked her.
Marc:Every time I saw her in anything, and she's been doing a lot of stuff for a long time, even more than I knew...
Marc:You relate to her somehow.
Marc:You're just sort of like, I like that lady.
Marc:She seems nice and sweet and charming and full of energy and talent.
Marc:And I don't know what I would say to her if I saw her.
Marc:I still get that feeling.
Marc:I get that feeling every time I have to do an interview.
Marc:But it always makes it a little awkward when I've got to do it in my hotel room because the hotel rooms at the Bowery where I stay, usually I don't spend the big jack for the bigger suite.
Marc:They're sort of a small room.
Marc:So it's just basically a bedroom.
Marc:And I always have to clean up and tidy up and have the cleaning person come in early so at least it doesn't look sorted somehow.
Marc:Just come on in.
Marc:Yeah, that's a washcloth.
Marc:I'm sorry, there are towels on the floor.
Marc:It was just one of those things where I'm already entering it a little self-conscious and a little embarrassed because it is not your standard professional interview situation.
Marc:But I found her to be very charming.
Marc:So she lived up to everything I expected, and I love talking to her.
Marc:And you will enjoy it, too, in a minute.
Marc:The schedule is... I will be with my partner, my business partner and producer, Brendan McDonald, at the Now Hear This Festival in Anaheim, California.
Marc:We're doing a live interactive WTF event.
Marc:There are about 30 other podcasts doing shows all weekend.
Marc:That's this Saturday.
Marc:now hear this festival you can go to now hear this fest.com for all the details and come out i haven't seen brendan in a while he's coming out this week carnegie hall is there's about 100 tickets left and that's november 4th in new york city james k polk theater november 19th in nashville tennessee the vick theater chicago illinois december 3rd for two shows
Marc:ruby diamond concert hall tallahassee florida january 24th 2017 the carolina theater in durham north carolina february 17th night theater charlotte north carolina february 18th the ridgefield playhouse march 2nd ridgefield connecticut the music hall in portsmouth new hampshire march 3rd college street music hall march 10th in new haven connecticut troy savings bank music hall
Marc:March 11th in Troy, New York and Flynn Center in Burlington, Vermont, March 12th.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:If you heard your city or it's nearby, go grab a ticket, would you?
Marc:I watched my new kitten, Buster Kitten, continually bully the old man monkey, which upsets me and there's nothing I can do about it.
Marc:But there is something I can do about it and it's something that I'm procrastinating on because I don't,
Marc:I don't know why I'm projecting or transposing or what, but I'm having a hard time accepting the fact that I'm going to have to cut this cat's balls off.
Marc:Obviously, I'm not going to do it at home.
Marc:Obviously, I'm going to take him to a professional to have it done.
Marc:But I don't know if it's a weird pride, but I got this cat when it was a little teeny kitten.
Marc:It was two months old.
Marc:He's doing all right.
Marc:He's a little crazy.
Marc:I can't really I don't have a full grasp and I don't think he does either of what his personality is going to end up being because what I'm about to do is going to have a big impact on that.
Marc:But he's grown in these nice balls.
Marc:You know, he doesn't know that he did, but he's done a good job with the balls.
Marc:And now I'm just going to take him in and have his balls cut off because it's the right thing to do.
Marc:And I'm procrastinating because I don't know.
Marc:It must be transference.
Marc:I'm personalizing it.
Marc:I'm using empathy that is human to try to think about what it would be like to be young and just coming into my own and having someone put me into a cage, which I thought would be fun initially, and then cut my balls off.
Marc:I think I just explained a job.
Marc:It's a metaphor for a job.
Marc:But no, but I have to do this.
Marc:And it's going to be the right thing to do.
Marc:But am I going to be able to look my cat in the eye again after I do that to him?
Marc:He's going to know.
Marc:I've been through this with other cats, but it's been a while.
Marc:It's been a while since I had to sort of be the guy that steps in and has...
Marc:A cat's balls cut off.
Marc:It's upsetting to me.
Marc:I don't know why it is, but I got to do it because if he gets out, he could make more kittens.
Marc:Maybe it'll calm him down.
Marc:But but it has to be done.
Marc:And I have to stop fucking personalizing it.
Marc:It's an OK thing to cut your cat's balls off.
Marc:But he's just coming into himself.
Marc:See, I'm negotiating.
Marc:I want to thank all the people that came out to University of California in Santa Barbara, Campbell Hall.
Marc:That was a great gig.
Marc:Had the wonderful Kevin Christie open up, and it was an amazing venue.
Marc:You could hear everything.
Marc:The acoustics were perfect.
Marc:And I did a little Q&A with some students afterwards, and that was enriching and fulfilling.
Marc:And I felt like I was helping the young people of our country.
Marc:Also, thanks to everybody who came out to Largo last night and watched that two-hour marathon of a show.
Marc:I don't want to call it a marathon because it was a good show, and it made me feel a little more prepared today.
Marc:Because I got Carnegie coming up, and I've made it a big deal in my mind.
Marc:I guess it is a big deal, because it is that venue.
Marc:But before I took the job on Glow, I had to move a lot of dates.
Marc:But I thought I was going to be doing a lot of dates, and these dates are working out.
Marc:When you hear this, I will have done the Ice House last night.
Marc:And hopefully that went well.
Marc:I don't know yet, because it's still a couple hours away.
Marc:I'm doing a little time travel shifting.
Marc:But I always want to be...
Marc:show my gratitude for those who come out to see me oh my god I'm getting old I turned 53 a few weeks ago and I'm starting to see it in pictures of me more I'm starting to think what happens now what do I do I'm starting to think maybe small house somewhere in New Mexico
Marc:What does it all mean?
Marc:Is it all happening?
Marc:Is all the meaning already there?
Marc:Do I already know?
Marc:Is it within me?
Marc:Am I missing it?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I know this.
Marc:I talked to Sarah Jessica Parker for a little while.
Marc:She's on a new HBO show.
Marc:It's called Divorce.
Marc:It's on right now.
Marc:New episodes premiere Sundays at 9.30 p.m.
Marc:And you can watch it anytime on HBO Go, HBO Now, and HBO On Demand.com.
Marc:I need to mention this before we get into this interview, because I am a moron with names.
Marc:I've known people decades and I do not know or remember their name.
Marc:I think that's a skill one has to learn or else it's just because I'm so self-involved.
Marc:But Sarah Jessica brings up Paul Sims, who, of course, I know and I've had conversations with.
Marc:But when she brings up his name, I'm like, I don't think I know him because I'm a fucking moron.
Marc:And I'm self-involved, I guess.
Marc:But I just want to set that straight because I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.
Marc:So this is me and Sarah Jessica Parker in a hotel room talking.
Marc:Enjoy.
Marc:I swear to God, I get insecure.
Guest:I was going to bring water from the car because I didn't want to make you pay for water.
Marc:No, I don't care about paying for water.
Marc:I get the same feeling.
Marc:For some reason, there are certain people, they come over to my garage.
Marc:I'm like, oh, it's a mess.
Guest:What is she going to think of me?
Guest:I wish I were in your garage.
Guest:I mean, I'm happy to be home in New York, but I really do.
Guest:So if this goes well and you feel that I'm...
Guest:deserving of for some reason we've not covered enough and part two sir jessica fargan then you know what and honestly though if you're in la and you want to see the garage i can just come by we don't have to you don't have to speak to me you can come in i don't usually do i don't usually do full-length interviews more than once okay no no no you need i'm not asking for you to do a part two really what i'm basically saying is that
Guest:I just want to see the garage.
Marc:You come over, and then, you know what we could do?
Marc:We could do like a short interview, which I do a lot, of you having that experience.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:It'd just be Sarah Jessica Parker experiences the garage.
Guest:All right, that's fine.
Guest:And I'll notice things.
Guest:I'll see details.
Marc:Sure, yeah.
Guest:Have you ever interviewed Amy Sedaris?
Marc:I have interviewed Amy Sedaris live.
Marc:In the garage?
Marc:Oh, God.
Marc:She would love your garage.
Marc:But she's like a unicorn.
Marc:You can't, you know, like getting her to do things.
Marc:The one time I interviewed her, she was in a panic because she had to go somewhere.
Marc:It was all a very rushed situation.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah, but it was hilarious.
Marc:There's nobody more consistently delivers whatever it is she delivers.
Guest:She's really – describing her as a unicorn is kind of great.
Guest:I mean she is sort of – she's one of the truly magical people I've ever known in my life.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And every part of her.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like whatever she's doing that morning, you're like, what?
Guest:I know.
Marc:You did what?
Guest:But I think also it's because she –
Guest:commits such an enormous amount of everything is given equal value.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, whether it's like, you know, going to the market to look for some peculiar, maybe kind of contraband vegetable or finding proper rickrack for an apron she's making.
Guest:She's all in.
Guest:She's all in.
Guest:I mean, it's a real lesson in kind of an enthusiasm.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:yeah and she's like sort of it's sort of like she's like a poet in a way yeah she's really everything's loaded up like everything has the same sort of electricity but I would imagine she would love your garage like she loves um we probably don't get no talking done she'd be taking things off the shelf yeah what's this yeah examining looking underneath I'd like her to do it but like like I say she's one of those people where it's like really she's gonna come yeah I'd be amazed
Marc:If I could get her there.
Guest:We can work on that.
Marc:I come back here and I don't recognize the city.
Marc:So if you have memories from that long ago.
Guest:I have memories prior because prior to my official arrival in our Volkswagen bus with everything we owned, my real father was from New York.
Guest:So we came to New York to visit my father and my grandparents, my paternal grandparents, not infrequently.
Guest:So I have been coming to visit New York since the early 70s.
Guest:And specifically Brooklyn, which was as unique then as Manhattan was.
Marc:Totally.
Guest:Meaning the changes are as obvious to the eye.
Marc:But that's sort of my memory too.
Marc:Like my grandmother was in Jersey and I would fly back and I'd take the bus in.
Marc:When I was 14, she would put me on a bus in Jersey.
Marc:The red and tan lines?
Marc:I don't remember which ones, but who would do that now?
Marc:14 years old.
Marc:Go ahead.
Marc:Go into Times Square.
Marc:You know what?
Marc:Have a good time.
Guest:You know what's so funny?
Guest:We were talking about this last night because I was a young working actor from the time I was very, very young prior to my arrival in New York.
Guest:In Ohio?
Guest:In Ohio, yeah.
Guest:I started acting when I was eight.
Marc:All right, so now we can go back to that.
Marc:So you were born in Ohio.
Marc:Your parents were together.
Marc:Your father was a professor.
Marc:I'm not saying this like I'm reading it.
Marc:We talked about it before I turned it on.
Marc:We already talked about this.
Guest:We're reviewing.
Marc:Yeah, he was a poet.
Marc:He started the American Poetry Review.
Marc:The American Poetry Review.
Marc:And then he got out of poetry.
Guest:And then he got out of poetry.
Guest:And we moved to Cincinnati.
Guest:And we lived in Cincinnati, Ohio until I was 11.
Guest:So from 5 to 11, I lived in Cincinnati.
Marc:But no dad?
No.
Guest:My mother remarried in 1968.
Guest:68.
Guest:Yeah, in 68.
Marc:So you're three.
Guest:So I'm three.
Guest:And they are still married.
Marc:How is that guy?
Guest:He's wonderful.
Guest:I mean, I have two great fathers.
Marc:So you're in Cincinnati doing a big training.
Marc:So I'm in Cincinnati.
Marc:With the local method acting instructor.
Guest:No, you know what it was?
Guest:Seriously, it was because my parents read the paper.
Guest:And in the paper.
Marc:This is your mom and your stepdad.
Guest:My mom and my stepdad.
Marc:And what's your stepdad do?
Guest:He's a truck driver.
Marc:He was a truck driver for... Continues to be.
Guest:He's a Teamster.
Marc:A Teamster.
Marc:So local, not like cross-country.
Marc:He's a local.
Guest:He was at that time, he was a semi-driver.
Guest:He was an 18-wheeler.
Guest:He was driving grain across the country back and forth.
Marc:So that's good.
Marc:So you had a truck to climb into for fun.
Guest:Yes, and he would pick a child and we could accompany him on a shorter trip.
Guest:And we would sleep in the cab.
Marc:Right.
Guest:You know, above.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:It was like a bunk bed kind of situation.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's a great thing to have as a child.
Guest:I mean, both my fathers are very interesting.
Guest:Well, at least I think so.
Marc:How many other siblings are there?
Guest:I'm one of eight.
Guest:What?
Guest:How does that pan out?
Marc:The original set, how many do you have?
Guest:So I'm the youngest of my biological parents.
Guest:My mother remarried and had four more.
Guest:So my mother's had eight children with two husbands.
Guest:So I'm the fourth of eight.
Marc:Do you know them all?
Yes.
Guest:I'm fairly familiar with most of them, yeah.
Guest:No, yeah, I do.
Guest:Pippin, Toby, Rachel, Sarah, Jessica, Andrew, Megan, Allegra, and Aaron.
Marc:That's crazy.
Marc:And a couple of them are in show business?
Guest:Yeah, so my brother Pippin is the dean of the new school writing, directing, and acting program.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Guest:That's a pretty important position.
Guest:Yeah, I'm very proud of him.
Guest:My brother Toby is a great and beautiful actor and singer and he's been on Broadway a lot and is very special, very gifted.
Guest:My sister Rachel was in the medical profession and then she married and I...
Guest:Had a family and couldn't devote what the medical profession requires.
Guest:And now she's sort of getting back into it.
Guest:And then my brother, Andrew, is the house prop man for the Roundabout's Broadway house.
Marc:Oh, the Roundabout Theater?
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:And my sister, Megan.
Marc:She's like a Barrymore.
Yeah.
Guest:Without all the sort of prestige and drunken, yeah.
Guest:We used to think we were, are we the Glass family?
Guest:We used to imagine this is the ideal version, but we're in fact not, it turned out.
Guest:My sister Megan pulls focus.
Guest:She's a focus puller.
Guest:For TV?
Guest:For movies.
Guest:Movies?
Guest:My sister Allegra is like a masseuse.
Guest:She's a masseuse.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Groovy.
Guest:She's a masseuse.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my little baby brother, Aaron, who is no longer a baby, who's expecting his first baby, he's a teamster also.
Marc:He's a truck guy?
Guest:He is.
Guest:He typically drives one of the vans.
Marc:In New York?
Guest:In the movie business.
Guest:And my father's in the movie business now, too.
Marc:In Cincinnati.
Guest:I mean, my stepfather is a teamster in the movie business in New York City.
Marc:He is?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:He's here now?
Marc:He's here.
Marc:No one's in Ohio.
Marc:Our whole family moved here.
Guest:Everybody's here.
Guest:The whole family moved here on January 1st of 1977.
Guest:Everything we owned in our VW bus.
Guest:There were six at the time.
Guest:My mother was pregnant with Allegra, so she couldn't travel with us.
Marc:So as a teamster, you could just get work?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:That was his hope.
Marc:That was his hope.
Guest:And we were one of the first families to move to Roosevelt Island.
Guest:But when we arrived, because we were part of the subsidized housing, when we arrived, it wasn't complete.
Guest:So we had no place to stay.
Marc:So you're just out there on that island with that tram car?
Guest:So we had to find a hotel room, and the only hotels that we could afford were not in the city.
Guest:We ended up at the Holiday Inn in Yonkers.
Guest:Six kids.
Guest:Six kids.
Guest:A pregnant mom, maybe.
Guest:One father.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And a mother back in Cincinnati, closing up the house.
Guest:She couldn't travel with us.
Marc:And the real dad was here?
Guest:And my real father, at that point, lived in Philadelphia.
Marc:So he was no help.
Guest:Well, I mean, it's not that he didn't offer to help, but it would have been peculiar for him to help with the kids.
Guest:Yes, they too are familiar with each other.
Marc:At that time, was it contentious or was it all right?
Guest:I would say that like a lot of divorces, it was complicated.
Guest:Let's put it that way.
Guest:I think it was a civilized but complicated divorce.
Marc:I watched the first episode, the pilot of divorce of the new show for HBO.
Marc:It was kind of gnarly, man.
Marc:yeah it's gnarly you go from the glamorous new york city defining socialite to like this suburban nightmare but it was funny you guys i mean it was dark and it was disturbing but you guys are so good what's his name thomas hayden church oh my god this is so he's so good and molly shannon for a few minutes does she come back um talia balsam
Marc:Do they come back?
Marc:Tracy West is the one who had the heart attack.
Guest:Yeah, they all come back quite a bit.
Guest:Yeah, they're all regulars.
Guest:Yeah, it's great.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah, I describe it as... And the guy from the Friday the Concords, is he back?
Marc:Does he come back or is that it?
Guest:I'll say that there will be a drive-by.
Guest:I don't want to say too much.
Guest:I don't want to titillate your audience.
Marc:Yeah, well, I mean, I'll tell you one thing.
Marc:The twist at the end, and it is a twist, was sort of like, oh, shit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, you know, it's going to be interesting because I didn't watch them all because then I probably would have spoiled something.
Marc:But watching the pilot was that, you know, to keep those characters sympathetic, to keep your characters sympathetic, you know, given what we know and given it is going to be tricky.
Marc:But it is because it's already sympathetic because it's real.
Guest:That's what happens.
Guest:It's real.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's like that's what happens.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:The scene on the train with you and, you know, and that riff she lays on you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:About like you think you're in love.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:It's sort of.
Marc:It's sad, but human beings really have this very small menu of how they fuck things up.
Guest:Yep, yep.
Guest:And especially smart people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Who surprise themselves...
Guest:making bad choices, behaving badly, terrible counsel.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Which is typically their own.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know?
Marc:Well, it's a rationalization thing.
Guest:Yeah, and I think what I love about playing that part and what I love about her is that people used to be like, oh, you know, do you like Carrie Bradshaw?
Guest:I was like, yeah, I mean, I love playing Carrie Bradshaw.
Guest:And I love playing that part.
Marc:Just for the clothes, right?
Yeah.
Guest:Just actually for the story.
Guest:I loved telling that story.
Guest:And they would say, you know, is she like... I was like, yeah, I mean, she's a human being.
Guest:But what I think is so interesting about Frances is that she is not buoyant like Carrie.
Guest:She is not... She's prickly and she's chilly, but I feel like she's incredibly real.
Guest:And that she is like...
Guest:an enormous number of people who have made a commitment and gone back to the well and dug deep and are weary and exhausted in a marriage and feel that there's this sort of deadening inertia.
Guest:And that one line she says, I want to save my life while I still have a chance, I think is very real.
Guest:I feel it now.
Marc:And I'm not married and I'm not a woman.
Marc:And I'm just at this point in my life where you have a moment
Marc:You're not that much younger than me, and I'm not saying that in a mean way.
Marc:No, no, no, no.
Marc:Where you're like, what's the fucking point?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, what happens now?
Marc:How much time do I have left?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:You know, and why should it suck?
Guest:Yeah, and so what do you do to salvage what you imagine are your remaining years?
Guest:And what I think often you discover is that it's...
Guest:it's not for the most part it's really with the complication of children and financial issues that are real and are a true strain in this particular relationship that we're talking about on the show it's not what you imagine it's not i mean the liberation sort of hangs in front of you like this great shiny lure but the truth of
Guest:divorce or an attempt at divorce is just for middle-class people it is painful if you don't have money to throw at it and get out of it clean it is a very painful complicated disappointing failure I don't even have kids and my second divorce was horrendous yeah it's really it's so anyway so I love playing her and it's um and Thomas was my first choice and I cannot believe he said yes
Marc:he's thrilled he's a very unique performer isn't he and you know and his ability to be funny it's just like sort of now he's one of those people that you just kind of wait you know something funny is going to happen yeah and it's completely horrifying yeah wait i want to talk about this relationship stuff though because like what you're saying is that even when you make the choices that would in your mind at that moment imply that you know this is going to make it better
Marc:you know, there's other things to be reckoned with, like the loneliness, the, you know, maintaining a relationship with your children that's not detrimental to them.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and sort of what have you done to the, you know, I think the first things that have become apparent is first, first of all, just on a practical level, you're missing an extra set of hands, right?
Guest:So you're a working person and you need to work.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You're in a job that is not,
Guest:satisfying in any way.
Guest:You're in debt.
Guest:You're changing credit cards for the best interest rates constantly.
Guest:You're trying to be a good parent to make up for what are very transparent felonies, basically.
Guest:In your children's eyes, you've just committed horrible...
Guest:And how do you begin?
Guest:How do you sort of surface?
Marc:Yeah, my brother went through it.
Marc:Everyone knows people who went through it.
Marc:Did you have people that you've kind of walked through this horrible thing?
Guest:Well, I started working on this show like four years ago.
Guest:And I was initially just interested in marriages and affairs because I was at the point where I was...
Guest:I had a lot of friends who were either contemplating divorce, survived divorce, didn't survive divorce in their own way, came out of divorce thinking it was the best thing that ever happened.
Marc:Both sides.
Guest:All of it.
Guest:And, you know, friends that were having affairs that didn't affect the marriage, having affairs that did, having affairs that were, you know, all that sort of stuff, right?
Marc:And I'm married for a long time.
Marc:And God knows you've run things through your head.
Guest:Well, I think all of us sort of think about all of it, you know?
Guest:And I think it's really interesting.
Guest:And there were great shows about marriage, you know, but I wanted to sort of, I wanted to look at it this way and in a truthful way, but that you can find the humor in all this because...
Guest:The environment allows for absurdity and ridiculousness and silly.
Guest:You know, there's things about it that you can.
Guest:So it's not just this sort of can be so do me.
Marc:But just like that feeling of like when you show up at the door, that's I'm not going to tip anymore like that.
Marc:When your heart falls through you and you realize like.
Guest:Yeah, and he's in every position, you know.
Guest:He says some brutal stuff.
Marc:Right there.
Guest:But he's, it's his, you know.
Guest:It's his feelings.
Guest:It's his feelings.
Guest:And I'm deserving of, you know, I should be the recipient of those.
Guest:But it's really, it's deadening, you know.
Guest:But I love it.
Guest:And I love what we get to do.
Guest:And I'm thrilled that we got to.
Marc:Are you your executive producer?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And was it your idea to champion this?
Marc:I mean, did you pull it to HBO?
Guest:So it's an idea I had that we were developing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, it's all you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I was focused more on the affair.
Guest:So then eventually, I have a little company at HBO and we produce.
Guest:And eventually we started meeting writers, one of whom was Sharon.
Guest:And we hired Sharon and she wrote our pilot.
Guest:And then we brought on Paul Sims, who's our showrunner.
Marc:Do you know Paul?
Marc:I don't.
Marc:I can't believe you don't know Paul.
Guest:Oh my God.
Marc:He was just here.
Guest:I love Tom Sharpling.
Marc:Sharpling's the best.
Guest:Do you know what I love to do to Tom Sharpling?
Marc:I love to hug him.
Guest:God, I love to hug him.
Marc:He's like, ooh.
Guest:He is somebody.
Guest:I sent him an email because Tom Sharpling is very special to me.
Guest:And he won't hear it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But...
Marc:He was sitting right there yesterday.
Guest:No freaking way.
Marc:We do these shows sometimes, the Mark and Tom show.
Marc:I didn't know that.
Marc:How can I not know this?
Marc:Well, there's only been two.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Marc:And then we haven't done one in a couple of years because, you know, we're both broadcasters.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And we both have a mutual respect for each other.
Marc:And he cracks me up.
Marc:So, like, when we have time, we'll just talk.
Guest:Oh, how great.
Marc:On the mic.
Marc:So, we did one yesterday.
Marc:Oh, he's just.
Marc:He's great.
Marc:He's so funny and so.
Guest:so fond of him and i love like you know toward the end he really he was so valuable on the set for me yeah in particular yeah like he would just know when to come by and after a take or after a really complicated hard scene whether it was hard because of the choreography or the emotion that was right or pain whatever it was right
Guest:he would come by and he would just tap me on the back.
Guest:Or just say something sort of sentimental and romantic.
Guest:And it meant the world to me.
Marc:Yeah, he's a sweetheart.
Guest:Because he was really paying attention.
Guest:And it was really important to me that he come back for the second season, which he did.
Guest:How do we start talking about him?
Guest:How'd that happen?
Marc:We hired Sharon.
Guest:We hired Paul.
Marc:Who's Sharon?
Guest:Sharon Horgan is a writer and an actor, and she has a show called Catastrophe.
Marc:Oh, that's what I was mistaking it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:With Rob Delaney.
Marc:Right, exactly.
Guest:But this is a separate.
Marc:So your initial idea was the affair?
Guest:The affair in a marriage.
Marc:I wanted to have it be.
Guest:That's all you had?
Guest:I had a lot of very specific ideas.
Guest:But what I was excited about when I met Sharon was she was really interested in divorce.
Guest:And she was interested in some of the bigger themes that I found really compelling.
Guest:And a larger part of this whole thing was 70s cinema.
Guest:And...
Guest:You know, an unmarried woman has always played a huge role in my life.
Marc:That's huge.
Guest:And just the way we used to shoot movies in the 70s and the music.
Guest:So all the music, I don't know if you've noticed, is from the 70s.
Marc:Yeah, I did.
Marc:Now that you mention it.
Marc:And that one scene where he's outside watching...
Marc:the events in that suburban fancy house.
Marc:Yeah, that was very 70s.
Guest:Isn't it great?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:That was good.
Marc:And he's just standing there like a doofus.
Marc:It's really sad.
Marc:Yeah, it's brutal.
Guest:But it's beautifully shot, isn't it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, no, it looks great.
Guest:So I figured the reason I wanted that 70s music is I was like, oh, this is the music.
Guest:this would be the music that informed their growing up lives, right?
Guest:This was the music they fell in love to.
Guest:Not even with each other, but they fell in love the first time and the second time and the third time and the 11th time.
Guest:And this is now the music that they are falling apart to.
Marc:The music you smoke your first cigarettes to.
Marc:Yeah, it's really good.
Marc:It's all so evocative.
Guest:And it's just what could we afford.
Guest:So anyway, yeah.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:That was smart.
Marc:These songs can't be that much.
Guest:Oh my God.
Marc:It's crazy.
Guest:No, it's really crazy.
Guest:And we're a tight show.
Guest:I mean, we don't have like a crazy, we're not profligate with the money.
Guest:We're really like, we're lean.
Marc:Are you?
Guest:Yeah, we're lean.
Marc:Is that your choice?
Guest:Yeah, because the more.
Marc:I always feel like HBO is just sort of like, how much do you need?
Guest:No, I mean, not with us.
Guest:But I prefer that because I feel like.
Marc:Maybe you wore armor and stuff and there was some fantasy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or maybe if you were an hour.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:But the thing about that kind of discipline and limitations is you're really thoughtful about every choice.
Guest:And then if you really want something, you can argue for it.
Guest:But if you're constantly asking for rain machines for no reason.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:then it's like stay not too late with really good you know it's like just because you can say the f word on hbo doesn't mean you you have to or you should you should be like mindful and then when you say it yeah it's got like it really it's got basement you know yeah i'm in after a pilot um you know i'm i'm i'm in
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:I hope there are at least 12 others who say the same thing.
Marc:Or 1,200 others.
Marc:I think what's going to be interesting is to see, it is a really wild, dramatic shift for your cultural character.
Marc:You sort of reinvented New York City with that show, and you represent this thing.
Marc:I imagine you can't even walk down the street that easily.
Marc:Can you?
Guest:I mean, physically I'm capable, but there are people that like to stop and chat.
Marc:Let's put it that way.
Marc:It's always sort of like, I'm sorry, I don't want to be rude, but I got some things I need to say to you.
Guest:They like to share intimate details.
Guest:But yesterday I was running to actually a charity dinner, and I was like really running.
Guest:And all these young girls, and I was like, I can't right now.
Guest:I would...
Guest:Because you feel bad, right?
Marc:I feel terrible.
Marc:And now it's not even autographs, it's just pictures.
Marc:No, it's just phones.
Guest:So listen, so you know, because you know Louis C.K.
Guest:so well.
Marc:You must live close to him, no?
Marc:I think we do.
Guest:Yeah, so he and my husband have been friends for a while, and we were talking about this, you know, the phone cult, the phones, the cameras, the phones.
Guest:Right, so what he did...
Guest:But now we hear he doesn't anymore, and you can confirm this.
Guest:So this is what Matthew told me that Louis said, is when people came up to him and said, may I, he would say, they won't.
Guest:They won't.
Guest:They won't.
Guest:And it was so disarming and so bizarre that people were left stunned, and then I guess he could move on freely, right?
Guest:So I thought, he's like, I'm sorry, they won't.
Guest:So I was like, well, this is...
Guest:this is brilliant this is like so complex so i decided last year to start trying they won't yeah which amused me to no end and it was really interesting experience to see people sort of stop and be because it's kind of like no it's not no and usually it's an answer to the question that they just asked their friend do you think they would right i'm sorry they won't
Guest:So we tried this.
Guest:This was funny.
Guest:It worked.
Guest:We just made it work.
Guest:I made it work.
Guest:But then I was traveling, and we went last year.
Guest:My husband, myself, and my kids, we went to Sweden.
Guest:We landed in Stockholm.
Guest:This was for a family holiday.
Guest:It's evening there, and it's...
Guest:It's June, and the night sky is, you know, it's bright until like 11, but it's exquisite.
Guest:And the city, you know, the skyline of Stockholm.
Guest:And I say to the kids, and we've got a babysitter, and I say, but, you know, Papa and I are going to take a walk.
Guest:We're going to cross the bridge in Stockholm, and you guys can hang out here.
Guest:And Matthew and I are walking across this bridge, and we're like, oh, oh, the Swedish people.
Guest:Look how they're so classy.
Guest:There's no one...
Guest:cameras and phones and and um we're having this really pleasant we've just feel like we've been completely freed right and um we're walking down small narrow streets in the old town and i just see something out of the corner of my eye and i i know movement now right yeah yeah and um this woman leaps up from her chair and she comes running after me and she's like oh my god sarah oh my god sarah jessica
Guest:oh my god i'm here can i take a photo and she's got a thing i go they won't and she goes who's they she's the first person ever who who's they of course literally i was like tears were straight i was my husband i ran like small children we ran away from her but i could not believe she said who's who's this right classic new york jewish logic what are you talking about
Guest:I was dying.
Marc:What do you think, I'm a moron?
Guest:Finally, someone said, who's they?
Marc:And it had to be in that accent with that intensity.
Guest:But then I heard that Louis doesn't do it anymore.
Guest:I heard he's now just no.
Marc:No.
Marc:Yeah, no, that was my idea.
Guest:So how does he do it and not feel lousy for the next 20, 45 seconds?
Marc:Do you know what I mean by that?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know.
Marc:You'd have to ask him.
Marc:But I think that ultimately...
Marc:Well, you start to realize also with you, I'm sure you know that if there's a street situation, that if you let one person, all of a sudden there's 10 people.
Marc:And I think that what happens over time is that people know that they're being intrusive and it's a gamble.
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:They're asking you while the camera's shooting.
Guest:This is the other...
Marc:Right.
Marc:Or else they sneak one and then they become sort of dicks, you know.
Marc:But I can't imagine like I don't know what kind of fans you have, you know, but, you know, but I imagine they're pretty respectful and they expect a lot out of you.
Marc:But Louie could get any number of different types of people.
Marc:There could be guys like, yo, Louie.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But you get that, too, I bet.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I kind of, you know, I get kind of all of it.
Guest:I live in New York, so I'm on the streets all the time.
Guest:I mean, the thing I try to say, which is foolish, because by the time I've like, you know, trot out this kind of mini monologue, I could have taken the picture.
Guest:But I try to say to them,
Guest:isn't this more meaningful just this exchange of me saying i can't that i'm with my kids i mean you've tried to say that i say it all the time i'm like pretend we're in a time machine and it's 1940 and you don't happen to have a camera with you or when people are like oh my god i can't believe i don't have my camera i go i'm so glad you don't have your camera because now what we're doing is we're gonna have a quick conversation about i'm sorry i can't but i owe you i'm always like i owe you next time you see me it's gonna be a better moment i owe you
Marc:Oh, yeah, until you get the one guy who's like, you've said that five times, Sarah.
Guest:But I feel like I wish people would just, because they're not even looking at you when they're asking you for this picture.
Guest:They're not.
Marc:Yeah, they're getting their phone ready.
Guest:Yeah, I was like, but wouldn't you rather just for two seconds just tell me your name?
Guest:Where are you from?
Marc:And it's weird because the photos they get.
Marc:Why are you here today?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, I've done meet and greets and, like, I'm exhausted after a stand-up show.
Marc:And then I see people on Facebook, you know, posting these pictures of me with one eye open.
Marc:Like, my mouth's hanging open.
Marc:I know.
Marc:There's, like, dozens of pictures of me exhausted.
Guest:But there's no... There wasn't actually an exchange that they can...
Guest:Call upon other than the shaking hand of trying to get their phone to work and it never works when they want it to work at that moment, which is heartbreaking, by the way.
Marc:It is.
Marc:It is.
Marc:Relax.
Guest:I always feel like it's okay.
Guest:And I can't help them because I don't have an iPhone, so I don't know how to use an iPhone.
Guest:You don't have an iPhone?
Guest:No, I have a BlackBerry.
Marc:Why?
Guest:I've had one since 1999.
Guest:Well, that's good.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So you're not distracted constantly.
Guest:I'm a very... I'm a very... Monogamous with the phone.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:So you have what?
Marc:Three kids?
Marc:I have three kids, yeah.
Marc:How old are they?
Guest:My son is... He'll be 14 in October.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my daughters are new seven-year-olds.
Guest:They're twins.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So is that... Are you enjoying that?
Yeah.
Guest:Every single day?
Guest:No, of course not.
Guest:Yes, I know I do.
Guest:I love it.
Marc:And you and Broderick get along good?
Guest:Yeah, I get along.
Guest:I like him still.
Guest:I really like him.
Marc:He's an interesting guy.
Guest:Yeah, he is.
Guest:He's kind of like a secret weapon.
Guest:He's like a quiet...
Marc:He's very funny, too.
Guest:He's very funny.
Marc:He's bright.
Guest:He's interesting.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:Yeah, he's great.
Marc:That's good that you survived the whole thing.
Guest:Let me see.
Guest:Wait.
Guest:92 to 2002.
Guest:2002 to 2012.
Guest:2012 to 24 years.
Guest:24 years you've been with him and we've been married it'll be uh let's see 24 we'll be married 19 years in march that's impressive i don't know congratulations sometimes you do yeah like when when because we loved amy sedara so for so long and amy and i met
Guest:We were supposed to start rehearsals on September 11th for a play.
Guest:You and Amy.
Guest:Yes, in 2001.
Guest:And we were crazy, crazy fans of Amy's.
Guest:And when my husband finally met Amy, I felt like, shoot.
Marc:They should be together?
Guest:They should be together.
Guest:And she always used to say, I'm going to drive a wedge between your marriage.
Guest:I'm going to drive a wedge between your marriage.
Guest:And I was like, I don't think you have to work that hard.
Guest:I think...
Guest:If he were allowed, they should be together.
Guest:Should they?
Guest:Well, I feel sometimes I see him and I'm like, well, you know, that person should probably have an opportunity to spend some time with you.
Guest:But I'm not really willing to do that.
Marc:I always picture Amy to be above all these sort of mortal struggles like marriages and stuff.
Marc:Well, that's part of the unicorn thing.
Marc:Well, yeah, because they should be together, but how much can Matthew handle?
Guest:Like, look at the rabbit.
Guest:I mean...
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I think that's a good question, but we'll not know.
Guest:We'll never know.
Guest:We'll never know.
Guest:The rabbit's on your head.
Guest:But she does other things besides want to look at rabbits.
Guest:Sure, look at the cake I baked.
Guest:She's a great, great reader.
Guest:I know.
Guest:She's a great thinker.
Marc:I'm not trivializing her at all.
Marc:I know, I know.
Marc:You're not, I know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Yeah, so yeah, long time we've been together.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Long time.
Marc:Well, I'm sorry that, I mean, maybe there's still time for that.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Who knows?
Marc:Who knows?
Marc:But let's get back to the VW van.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So you get here.
Marc:It's not good.
Marc:You're staying in Yonkers.
Marc:You're at a hotel with your six siblings and your truck driving dad.
Marc:Your mom's in Cincinnati.
Marc:Your real dad's in Philadelphia not being a poet.
Marc:Correct.
Guest:He's being a businessman.
Guest:Correct.
Marc:But was there a real distinct sort of like, I'm done with poetry, fuck letters, I'm out.
Guest:I mean, I should probably let him tell his story, but... We don't do funny things.
Guest:Honestly, I think what happened is that he, after he...
Guest:after he stopped writing poetry, and I'm uncertain as to why he stopped, he became a journalist.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:And he was, I think, a successful journalist.
Guest:And I think what he really was interested in was business.
Guest:And he started small businesses in Philadelphia when Philadelphia was sort of reinventing itself and redoing its downtown, you know, the new market.
Guest:You like it?
Guest:Yeah, I like Philly very much.
Marc:That Reed Market or Reading Market?
Guest:He was part of this thing called the New Market.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:I just like Philly.
Guest:And I think it's a great, beautiful city.
Guest:I mean, it's complicated and rough, but it's an exquisite city.
Guest:So anyway, he started the first, I think the first Dan and Frozen yogurt store and a bath store.
Guest:He helped revitalize.
Guest:And then he went into penny stocks.
Guest:and then he went into he was one of the early I think penny stocks are like low value you know but I think in bulk maybe I'm not entirely sure I understand what happens in the trade of penny stocks then
Guest:He had a thought that he should buy and bundle big time from the telephone companies and sell them to local people.
Guest:He was one of those early kind of sprint guys.
Guest:So he had a company called U.S.
Guest:Watts.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:It was a phone company.
Guest:That was a phone company that would buy in bulk and then redistribute at lesser prices like all of those companies that flourished.
Marc:Like Robin Hood.
Marc:Sort of a renaissance man.
Marc:Well, he's like, I'm taking the expensive phone and you can get it for cheap.
Guest:Yeah, except I'm not certain it was meant to be.
Marc:A good thing.
Guest:A good thing.
Guest:I mean, I think he was looking... And then he retired.
Guest:And now he's retired.
Guest:And he was in Brooklyn?
Guest:He lives in Pennsylvania.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:He lives outside.
Marc:Did he remarry and everything?
Guest:Remarried in 1984.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:A fantastic woman.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you're out there on Roosevelt Island that's incomplete.
Guest:So then we finally get to Roosevelt Island.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And we live there unhappily.
Marc:How can you be happy out there?
Marc:I don't want to knock anybody.
Marc:I'll get emails now.
Marc:Like, we're very happy on Roosevelt Island not being in touch with anybody.
Marc:I went out there once on a...
Guest:one night bad decision and i was like where the fuck am i what did i do it's well i think a lot of people live there very happily now we were the first right there we were the first families and i think it had not had not worked out it was a social idea it was an idea community idea yes and for families who couldn't afford to live
Marc:Is that really what it was initially?
Guest:For us it was, because it had subsidized.
Guest:It still has subsidized.
Marc:Oh, that's good.
Guest:The island is still broken up into subsidized, as far as I know, middle, upper middle, and then there's high-end, fancy housing.
Marc:That's interesting.
Marc:So it's really a grand social experiment.
Guest:Yeah, I think so.
Guest:And the reason my parents knew about it was they had read about it in New York Magazine.
Guest:They did a big cover story on this island that was being built, and we applied to...
Guest:The management company that was operated out of the city was like a municipal organization.
Guest:It was Urban Dwellers Management.
Guest:And so we applied through that program.
Guest:And then we moved there.
Guest:And my mom, who's not a snob, had never, even though we were poor, she'd never not had her own washer and dryer.
Guest:And she'd never lived like this.
Guest:And I will say, these places were not built well.
Guest:You know, we moved in and the sink was crooked and the walls were made of tissue paper.
Guest:It was an experiment I think we were not equipped for.
Marc:But why New York, though?
Guest:I think my dad wanted to work here and we were young actors.
Guest:And...
Marc:So we didn't get to that.
Marc:So that started in Cincinnati, the acting.
Marc:And all of you were doing it?
Guest:Not all of us.
Guest:My brother Toby and both of us were actors at the time.
Guest:And I think my parents thought that my dad could be a truck driver here.
Guest:And later he started a business that transported Broadway shows on the road.
Guest:So he would do the buses and the trucks for those bus and truck companies.
Guest:And I'm not certain why they made this sacrifice.
Guest:What did your mom do?
Guest:My mother was a school teacher for years until I was about two or three.
Guest:And then she couldn't anymore.
Guest:I mean, she had a lot of kids.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she taught in Appalachia.
Guest:She taught in the foothills of Appalachia.
Guest:So she taught second grade.
Guest:And her students were anywhere from like seven to 14-year-olds.
Marc:And now what is the – your father is Jewish?
Marc:Your real father?
Guest:My real father is Jewish.
Guest:Both his parents are Jewish.
Marc:I always thought you were kind of Jewish.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I know people do, but I feel like I don't really have a right to claim that.
Guest:My father is, so I'm half, right?
Guest:Right.
Guest:And my mother is not.
Guest:So, I mean, culturally I identify in a lot of ways.
Marc:Well, that's sort of that weird line of New York Jewish, New York Italian, New York Irish.
Marc:So you can fall in, you know what I mean?
Guest:Because you're New York.
Guest:Yeah, and I think I fall into, I mean, I have some claim, right?
Marc:Sure, of course.
Guest:I mean, my father.
Marc:My father was not observant.
Guest:I'm not going to deny you any claim.
Guest:His family wasn't as observant.
Guest:His parents weren't.
Right.
Guest:But we were raised with no religious education of any kind.
Marc:Do you have any religion now?
Guest:No.
Marc:He's half Jewish too, right?
Guest:Matthew's mother was Jewish and his father was Irish Catholic.
Marc:How was he brought up?
Guest:Not observant.
Guest:But his mother's worldview, I think he would agree with very much from the point of view of a Jew.
Guest:Like always...
Guest:Looked at the world with that lens.
Guest:I think not uncommon also for her generation.
Guest:She's passed.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Which is, I think, I see this as a Jew.
Marc:She came to New York as an immigrant family?
Guest:No.
Guest:She was born here.
Guest:There's like third generation.
Marc:But New York Jews.
Guest:New York Jews.
Guest:True New York Jews.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, it's sort of wild, though, that you both have this very, like Irish Catholic and Jewish is not that unusual.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like his mother, he's actually has some, he's theoretically Jewish.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:His mother was Jewish.
Guest:He always says, if they came, I would be taken.
Marc:I'd be on the list.
Guest:Yeah, and I would maybe straddle.
Marc:He might be able to get away.
Marc:But now with the internet, they can get anybody.
Guest:I might be in some sort of purgatory of a waiting period.
Marc:Sure, yeah.
Marc:You get leniency.
Guest:But my mother, when I was younger, she always...
Guest:said that she was an atheist because my parents were very political.
Guest:And so I think her thoughts were, I mean, how could there be a God?
Guest:There's so much conflict in the world and there's so much pain and loss and inequality.
Guest:So how can there be a good God that is allowing?
Guest:So her thing was like, I'm an atheist.
Guest:I don't believe in God.
Marc:Working class progressives.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:And my stepfather is a Green Party member.
Guest:And he is a Christian.
Guest:A true, old-fashioned Christian.
Guest:Do you know what I mean by that?
Guest:It's in him.
Marc:He is not a new Christian.
Guest:Not at all.
Guest:extremely principled his parish is the most diverse building I have sat in with but it's about Christian principles Christian principles of volunteerism community giving to other service yeah completely it's really that's a very noble thing it is people who really abide by that and they make it their life and they find joy in that who are tolerant and accepting and are wanting to hear
Guest:people from people who are different than themselves yeah ideology that is counter right and even anathema they are this is the type of acceptance of of community that he worships at religiously literally every single sunday really even if it gets in the way of a family event yeah that's a that's a that's something that's beautiful yeah it's really it's we've gone a couple times my daughters love it
Marc:Why wouldn't they?
Guest:We have a really wonderful Unitarian church in New York called All Souls.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I get there.
Guest:They send a morning... Every day you get their little wake-up call?
Guest:I should read... Do something nice today?
Guest:They pull from scholars and people of faith.
Marc:I haven't had one of those.
Marc:I get it every morning.
Guest:It's a daily meditation.
Guest:But it's not about...
Marc:Do you actively meditate?
Guest:No.
Guest:I wouldn't have the patience.
Guest:I tried.
Marc:Do you yoga?
Guest:No.
Marc:What do you do?
Marc:Nothing?
Guest:I run around New York.
Guest:I live in a town.
Guest:I run up and down stairs all day long.
Guest:And we came back at my daughter's last night.
Guest:I came home and I ran upstairs to the room with my daughter Loretta who's
Guest:unbelievably honest she was like mama why are you so out of breath i was like first of all because i'm like 150 years old and second of all i just because i'm 150 years old i just ran up the stairs nine times to get you what you need yeah i'm out of breath seven year old so you've been in show business like a long time yes
Marc:40 years?
Marc:Really?
Marc:When you came from Cincinnati, what you had done, what, community theater, children's theater?
Guest:No, I had done proper... So when I moved here, by the time I moved here, I'd done a play on Broadway, a real, true, beautiful play directed by Harold Pinter called The Innocents.
Marc:Do you remember Harold Pinter?
Guest:Oh, are you kidding me?
Marc:How old were you?
Guest:I was 11.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:I had just been on Broadway.
Guest:He directed...
Guest:An adaptation of The Turn of the Screw, the Henry James Turn of the Screw, which William Archibald in the 50s did a beautiful adaptation for the stage.
Guest:And it was me and Claire Bloom who played the governess and Harold Pinter directed it.
Guest:And I auditioned in New York.
Guest:I was 10, went to London to rehearse, came back.
Guest:We went out of town like shows used to do, you know, Philadelphia, Boston, came into New York, played the Morosco Theater.
Guest:And not only do I remember Harold Pinter, but I was,
Guest:I was mad for him.
Guest:I was crazy as a young child even.
Marc:What was the impression?
Guest:Well, first of all, he was beautiful.
Guest:He was beautiful.
Guest:You know what he looks like, right?
Marc:I don't.
Guest:Oh, I wish I could pull up a picture.
Guest:He was extremely handsome, distinguished.
Guest:And a genius.
Guest:He smelled so great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He smoked and he drank and he wore a proper men's cologne, but not an intrusive or aggressive.
Guest:I had never been around somebody like this in my entire life.
Guest:I mean, you can imagine...
Marc:Like classy British dude?
Guest:Yeah, like, you know, at that time, arguably, maybe the greatest living playwright on that side of the pond, right?
Guest:Because Miller was still alive here in our country.
Guest:And Pinter, and he was smart and exquisite and...
Guest:a great director a great director and at the time to his death then with Lady Antonia Frazier do you know who Lady Antonia Frazier is she wrote Mary Queen of Scots yes and they had had this wonderfully scandalous relationship they had been she had been friends she was married to someone else he was married to someone else they'd been friends and then she left her husband and
Guest:went off with Harold, and Harold, they stayed together till his last breath.
Guest:My mother loved Lady Antonia Frazier, who wrote great books on historical figures.
Guest:The most important and most talked about of her books was Mary Queen of Scots.
Guest:So they're together, right?
Guest:And they're traveling around with their true old Louis Vuitton steamer trunks.
Guest:Then...
Guest:Claire Bloom, who is a magnificent English actress, right?
Guest:Beautiful, the most beautiful diction and sound of a voice you'll probably ever hear.
Guest:Her boyfriend at the time was Philip Roth.
Marc:Oh my God.
Guest:So my mother always said, jokingly, that she married my father because he reminded her of Philip Roth.
Guest:You know, two Jewish, if you saw a picture of my dad, you'd be like, wow, that's uncanny.
Marc:Intense Jewish men.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Smart writers.
Marc:Scary.
Guest:My mother read The New Yorker her whole life.
Guest:You know, would go to the library as a young girl and ask for The New Yorker.
Guest:So here we are on the road with Harold Pinter, Nadia Antonia Frazier, Claire Bloom, and Philip Roth.
Marc:They're all there?
Guest:Picture my mother.
Guest:They're all there.
Guest:We're traveling from city to city.
Guest:In a bus?
Marc:Or are you just meeting?
Guest:We're flying, but we're there every day.
Guest:Oh, that's insane.
Guest:And the companions are with them.
Guest:Anyway, like Harold, we would go to Boston.
Guest:I was a ballet dancer.
Guest:And Harold would make sure I got out of rehearsal to go take classes with the Boston Ballet.
Guest:I mean, he was amazing.
Guest:He was amazing.
Marc:You're like 10 years old and you're in the hot core of New York intellectualism and international arts.
Marc:I know.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:But I only knew that because of my parents.
Guest:Because my parents knew that.
Marc:But you felt the impression.
Marc:Most assuredly.
Marc:What was your 10-year-old impression of Philip Roth?
Guest:I thought he, too, was really handsome.
Guest:I knew immediately why my mother said that about him.
Guest:He was so chic and sexy.
Guest:I mean, I knew that.
Guest:When you're little, you don't not know things.
Marc:It's interesting because that time of culture being at the forefront of New York intellectual culture and theater culture and international literature and art being at the forefront, it's like gone.
Marc:I mean, the 70s was it.
Guest:I know everyone thinks we're just nostalgic because we're old and that's like no but the seventh like we must re-examine it's so like Carl Pinter and Philip Roth might be on the Dick Cavett show together definitely on the Dick Cavett show right and people now that whole it's all gone yeah yeah we used to watch all the time yeah right that's so specific it was like I knew I wouldn't have known obviously if my parents didn't tell me but I you could feel it so you do Annie
Guest:right so i come to new york after pinter after pinter i come to new york this is true we arrived in new york and i had an audition i believe for pretty baby really yes and with louis mall with louis mall and at the time um there was this great casting director in new york who was in the gulf and western building which is now the freaking trump you know the
Guest:Gulf and Western.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And that was where Paramount had a. Correct.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:And the movie theater was underneath.
Guest:And so my father was looking for someplace for us to stay.
Guest:So he dropped me off.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I went up and my first audition was for Pretty Baby.
Guest:And I got called back and called back and called back.
Guest:And.
Guest:um eventually read a few times with louis mall so that was my first day in new york literally he drove down from the holiday inn dropped me off at the golf and western building was like i'll be back anyway didn't get that movie audition got some other stuff and then um and then annie opened and i wasn't around for that original audition because that had happened prior to my arrival the show had run for a little while already
Guest:The show opened in April of 77, right?
Guest:But they started out of town before I came.
Guest:So at one point, soon after I arrived, there was an audition for the first replacement who was going to leave the show right after it opened.
Guest:So I went, and my parents had taken us to see Annie.
Guest:They had cobbled together enough money to buy two seats and four standing rooms.
Guest:so we would stand and then two people would switch after intermission so two people could sit and then two people could sit right and we watched the show and have you ever seen annie did you see freaking annie no oh no it's great no i know i like the song indisputably no it's it's it's it's it's a perfect show i promise you it's a perfect show and i saw it you know i was 12 years old and i was like certainly a perfect show for a 12 year old i
Guest:I couldn't believe what I was seeing.
Guest:And my dad said to me at the time, and I never sang professionally, whatever.
Guest:He was like, yeah, he could see my eyes.
Guest:He was like, he said to me, you're just not Annie material.
Guest:You know that.
Guest:And I was like, I know, I know.
Guest:I know.
Guest:But anyway, I got a call because I think those girls could belt.
Guest:They were belters and they were big, you know, bold performers and that was not my style.
Guest:But anyway, I got an audition for the show and I came to this audition and...
Guest:And I sang the song Nothing from a chorus line, which was this great song that this character, Priscilla Lopez's character sings about being Puerto Rican and wanting to be an actor and going to performing arts and never really achieving what the drama teacher, and the drama teacher keeps telling her, you're nothing, you're nothing, you should just go to the Catholic school down the street.
Guest:And it's got, you know, like a curse word in it.
Guest:But I love this song.
Guest:I saw it.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Guest:I love the place.
Guest:But I saw a chorus line before it opened on Broadway.
Guest:When I came to do The Innocents, it was in previews across the street.
Guest:When you came to the previews.
Marc:And a chorus line.
Marc:And I went to the previews.
Marc:Before it opened.
Marc:Before it opened.
Marc:Before it became like the biggest hit of the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My parents got tickets.
Yeah.
Marc:And I was like, I mean, that was a seminal theater as much as you.
Marc:They love it.
Guest:They love it.
Guest:They love it.
Guest:So I that song became my song.
Guest:But then it was like controversial that I sang that because there's a line she says, except the feeling that this bullshit was absurd.
Guest:And I sang that in my audition.
Marc:Anyway, for Annie, did you belt it out where you're like, I didn't really.
Guest:I wasn't really a.
Guest:a belter right before i got annie i did a show at the manhattan theater club with charles strauss who wrote the music and the lyrics right for annie for annie yeah and martin charnon directed that show and it was a review of charles strauss's music so i'd had that experience then i came over i auditioned for annie i got i got i got the part and when i got the part of july the orphan some might say it's the most boring orphan but i liked her yeah
Guest:They said, also, you're now going to be the understudy to Annie.
Guest:Because Andrea's going to leave.
Guest:The original Annie's going to leave.
Guest:When she leaves, Shelley Bruce is moving up into the role of Annie.
Guest:And we need an understudy.
Guest:But before that happens, Sarah Jessica...
Guest:Shelly's going on vacation.
Guest:When Andrea, like when you come into the show, Shelly will be on vacation.
Guest:You have to learn Annie first.
Guest:Because if Andrea doesn't make it, you're first up on deck.
Marc:Because the understudy's on vacation.
Marc:She's on holiday.
Guest:So.
Marc:This is one of those like, and then.
Marc:You get a week of rehearsal.
Guest:You get a week of rehearsal.
Guest:They taught me Annie first.
Guest:They taught me my track for July.
Guest:Opening night.
Guest:January of 1978, biggest snowstorm in New York City in 36 years.
Guest:All those people in the cast, they all live in Philly, including Andrew McArdle.
Guest:She's not gonna make the show.
Guest:Literally, they're like, you might be going on and playing Annie.
Guest:I was like, what?
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:But I didn't care.
Guest:I was like 12.
Guest:I was like, yeah, okay.
Guest:Tell me where to go.
Guest:Tell me what to do.
Guest:Anyway, she got there in time, but
Guest:Bunch of other people were out.
Guest:We had to kind of reorganize the show.
Marc:Eventually... There was an audience?
Marc:They came?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Come on, New Yorkers.
Guest:Right.
Marc:You know, if you have tickets, find a way.
Guest:Anyway, did the show.
Guest:Did it for a while.
Guest:Then, one of the original cast members, a grown-up, who played a very pivotal role of Grace Farrell, that's kind of ingenue lead opposite Daddy Warbucks, was leaving.
Guest:And any time an original cast member leaves, the whole creative team comes back to watch and send them off.
Guest:Shelly, by then Annie, was out sick.
Guest:I was on.
Guest:So I did the show in front of all the creative team.
Guest:And they came back and they were like, you're gonna be Annie.
Guest:And I was like, all right.
Guest:I was like, no really, I was like, all right.
Guest:But I had auditioned for a TV series.
Guest:And I got the part.
Guest:But I got the part when my parents were out of town.
Guest:my oldest brother was taking care of us.
Guest:And I said to them, listen, I'm gonna give you my notice and I'm leaving.
Guest:Martin Charnin came back and he's like, you're one day shy of a two week notice.
Guest:And I was like, come on, really?
Guest:And he's like, stay and I'll make you Annie.
Guest:And I was like, can I get that in writing?
Guest:Because I don't believe you.
Guest:And he did.
Marc:Do you know what that TV show is?
Marc:So I took over.
Guest:It was called Me and Max.
Marc:So it didn't even, did it run?
Guest:I don't think it ran terribly long, but it was good.
Guest:It was the guy that created Welcome Back Hotter.
Marc:Right.
Guest:James Comack, I think was his name.
Marc:It's interesting about TV, though, because like you're a real theater person and there's nothing more satisfying than that.
Marc:The immediacy of that, the connection with the audience.
Marc:I mean, I can tell you telling the story.
Marc:It's one of the greatest stories you have.
Guest:Yeah, it's a good story.
Marc:No, but like you can feel it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:The excitement of that and a theater in general.
Guest:Yeah, because nothing, nothing can mimic it.
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:And I love television.
Guest:I love the speed and the immediacy and the limitations and the urgency and all of it.
Marc:But it's a different type of acting.
Guest:But it's a very different type.
Guest:And it's a different kind of rigor and discipline.
Guest:But I do remember laying in bed the night before I took over the role.
Guest:I played this orphan for a year and then I played Annie for a year.
Guest:And I remember lying in bed and I shared a bedroom with my sister.
Guest:And I was thinking to myself, look at the ceiling like...
Guest:I gotta play that part for a year.
Guest:Yikes.
Guest:I'm almost like 15.
Guest:I should maybe be in high school now.
Guest:Maybe I shouldn't be playing Little Orphan Annie.
Guest:But I knew this was an opportunity.
Guest:And actually the other day I was... And it's a living too, right?
Guest:It's a living.
Guest:I was contributing to my family.
Guest:And it was important.
Marc:And I loved it.
Marc:Is that how it worked?
Marc:How did that work with your father being the type of person he is when you had those kind of conversations?
Marc:You being probably the biggest breadwinner of the family at that point.
Guest:Yeah, maybe I was.
Marc:But was there sort of like, we're going to put this away for you, and then this is going to... I think we put it away, but we also, if we needed it, we used it.
Guest:And that was just an understanding.
Guest:I mean, we didn't... It was interesting, because we didn't talk about it, but we talked about it.
Guest:It was made clear that...
Guest:we were contributing because the family was contributing to us.
Guest:And my brother, when I was doing Annie on Broadway, he was doing Runaways on Broadway.
Guest:The Elizabeth Suedo show, Runaways, it was a musical.
Guest:So he was in that original cast.
Guest:He and I, when I was first doing Annie, we were living on Roosevelt Island and we would meet and take the N and the R train back home.
Guest:So he, so he was, you know, contributing as well.
Guest:Um, but I don't, I mean, I don't, I never had any resentment about that.
Guest:And even though when I left home and I was, you know, almost 18 and I had by then done square pegs, um,
Marc:How long was that on a season?
Guest:That was only a season.
Guest:I had a... I didn't have... Were you living in L.A.?
Marc:Did you live in L.A.?
Guest:I lived at the Oakwood Garden Apartments on Coanga.
Marc:Oh, sure.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Where they put people up who don't live there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Furnished apartments.
Guest:Like a lot of the divorced... Yeah.
Guest:Like recently divorced men.
Guest:God, it was really bleak.
Guest:Even I thought... I didn't care.
Marc:It really depressed me.
Guest:You were like 18?
Guest:I was 16, 17.
Marc:So who was there with you?
Guest:My mom and two siblings.
Marc:At the Oakwood Apartments?
Marc:In Hollywood, there you go.
Marc:On Cahuenga?
Guest:Is that Hollywood?
Marc:I think it's over the hill.
Marc:It's Toluca Lake.
Marc:Yeah, right, exactly.
Marc:I found it really... Yeah, how could a furnished apartment situation be?
Marc:It really depressed me.
Marc:Happy.
Guest:Yeah, I didn't care for it.
Marc:But how long did you stay in Hollywood or in L.A.?
Guest:So I did a season of television of that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Went back home, did Footloose after that.
Marc:That was a big thing.
Guest:That was a big thing.
Guest:And by then I was 18 and on my own.
Marc:And starting to want to be in movies.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, and I had done a bunch of movies by then anyway, like smaller parts.
Guest:And so, I mean, I was a journeyman.
Guest:I was happily a journeyman.
Guest:I thought I had the world on a string.
Guest:I mean, I had the career I imagined was, and still believe, is the best possible career.
Marc:You worked.
Guest:I was working, and I was working in film, and then I was working in television, and then I was working in theater, and then I was able to pay my bills.
Marc:So there's no real disappointment about one thing not happening?
Marc:No, no.
Marc:You were a working actress and you were getting good parts.
Guest:I was trying to get jobs that I was proud of and work that I was excited about and people that I wanted to work with.
Guest:That was, if I could pay my bills and I could eat and I could take the subway and get a slice of pizza, what more, honestly, what more could I want?
Marc:And you've been in the public eye for a long time.
Marc:I mean, you dated Robert Downey before it fell apart for him in a big way.
Guest:Yeah, I was with him for eight years.
Marc:You were a kid, though.
Guest:I know.
Marc:Like, how old were you, like 19?
Guest:We were 18.
Guest:We met when we were 18.
Guest:Where'd you meet?
Guest:On Firstborn, a movie called Firstborn with Terry Garr and Peter Weller.
Marc:Yeah, he's like an astoundingly talented man, that guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, he is.
Marc:But you were with him like you were just kids, but you saw that you must have seen that it was going to be a struggle.
Yeah.
Guest:I didn't, you know, I'd never seen drugs, done drugs, been around drugs, even though Square Pegs, it turns out, was riddled with drugs, which I didn't know at all.
Marc:You were Annie.
Guest:Yeah, I was, I think I was...
Guest:naive I wasn't innocent but I was naive and I didn't recognize things that maybe somebody who had dabbled in that world would know as signs but I also felt
Guest:I think like a lot of us do about a lot of things, which is like, well, I can deal with that.
Guest:I can fix that.
Guest:I can help.
Marc:It's also the time, too.
Marc:Like that time, it was sort of like, we're all doing it.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:It was crazy.
Guest:It was everywhere.
Marc:It was everywhere.
Guest:And we weathered a huge amount of that.
Guest:But eventually, I felt that...
Guest:I guess I just summoned the courage to leave him and not the biggest I think the biggest hardest choice about those kinds of relationships is feeling brave enough to leave even if you're afraid they're going to die like that's because you stay.
Guest:Not because you're in love anymore.
Guest:You love this person, and you're afraid that they will die if you aren't there to shore up their base every single solitary day.
Marc:Did you do any sort of work, like Al-Anon, codependent, any of that?
Guest:You know, I tried at one point, because we did many interventions, and everyone was like, you should go to some Al-Anon meetings.
Guest:And I went to some Al-Anon meetings, and I remember coming home and saying to him, gosh, you know, Downey, I...
Guest:They seem so angry.
Guest:I'm not angry.
Guest:I'm worried.
Guest:I'm not angry.
Guest:And you're young, too.
Guest:So young.
Guest:Yeah, and I wasn't tired of it yet.
Guest:I just didn't want him to die.
Guest:I just didn't want him to die.
Guest:But we're friends still.
Marc:It's kind of great.
Marc:It's a great sort of success story with him.
Marc:Because I'm sober, and he seems to be holding the line.
Marc:Oh, I didn't realize that.
Marc:How long are you sober?
Marc:17 years.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:Yeah, that's real.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And, you know, we have some common friends.
Marc:And I'm just, like, I'm impressed when people can... Especially going through what he went through.
Marc:Because it seems that right after you broke up... And also, I guess you were really... This was your home, New York.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I came home.
Marc:Yeah, a little easier or harder.
Marc:I don't know what.
Marc:But, like, it seemed like right after you guys broke up, that was when he was like... Yeah.
Marc:It was mad.
Marc:And I imagine you just had to sit there and go, like, I hope, you know... It was weird.
Guest:Well, I did sort of.
Guest:Although...
Guest:I got pulled back in later in a way that was very dark and scary.
Marc:What does that mean?
Guest:I guess it just means like I got off a plane in Los Angeles, you know, and I, you know, there have been some years spent not together.
Guest:And I got off and, you know, you would go to the luggage thing and, you know, I had a flip phone at the time, like a, what would be the brand?
Guest:Samsung or no?
Guest:No, like the only brand at the time.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:You know, what was it called?
Guest:Whatever.
Guest:Oh, Jesus.
Guest:God, it's so sad.
Guest:Anyway, the one I always wanted, I had it.
Guest:And I flipped it open and there were like, you know, a hundred messages.
Guest:And they were all like, did you hear about Downey, Downey, Downey?
Guest:And a lot of people calling me saying, can you help?
Guest:Can you step in and help?
Guest:What had happened?
Guest:He disappeared.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And it was that really...
Guest:bad public chapter.
Guest:Yeah, he was on the run.
Guest:And I was pulled back in.
Guest:I'm not certain why.
Guest:But anyway.
Marc:You found him?
Guest:Yeah, it's hard.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You were the one.
Guest:i was working with some other people right right but it was um i had not seen him that bad he was never that bad when we were together right and um it's it's a very it's like a it's like a it's like a muscle that atrophied and then it's like you're working it out again and it just comes back and devastating yeah yeah yeah and that then you guys got him into treatment i guess again
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I think that wasn't the end.
Guest:I think there were a couple more.
Guest:But yeah, I'm thrilled for his health and well-being now.
Marc:But what did you learn for yourself in that moment where you're like, that all came back so quickly that it was as dangerous to you in a way?
Guest:It felt more dangerous to me than it had ever felt.
Guest:It felt like I had entered a sort of an alternate universe of really scary associations and really scary habit that had become...
Guest:genuinely scary but everything around it too was dangerous it was it was who was he communicating with how was he right you know conducting this business who was in his life and how often was he putting himself in danger in true like and me putting me in danger and asking people in these situations terrifying right um and i guess what i learned is that i
Guest:I had a real allergy to it all of a sudden.
Guest:I really found it made me sick to my stomach.
Guest:And it made me so sad.
Guest:I couldn't get over how sad it was.
Guest:Because it was a very different kind of relationship with drugs than now.
Guest:Versus that was like innocent.
Guest:That would be like champagne to chasing the dragon.
Guest:Even though, I mean, really the leap.
Guest:So it was, you know, I... You were scared.
Guest:I was terrified.
Guest:I was really... I set up a whole system of being in touch with people the whole time and pretending that I was calling in for my call time because I was shooting a movie at the time.
Marc:You got really sucked in.
Guest:I mean, I was so scared.
Guest:I was scared.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I was scared for him, too.
Guest:But, you know...
Marc:You're all right.
Guest:Yeah, I'm fine.
Guest:He's good.
Marc:He's well.
Marc:And you learned a big lesson that it's not, you can't save somebody.
Guest:No, you can't.
Guest:You just, you can't.
Marc:It's an important lesson to learn.
Guest:And every time you think you're special, like every time you're like, no, I know he's difficult.
Guest:Like a girl that's like a boyfriend that's coming with all these warning signs.
Guest:Just like, give me two weeks of them.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:Not your job.
Marc:No.
Marc:Well, that's a good lesson to learn.
Marc:It's very good.
Marc:It seems like you got some extreme training in it very quickly.
Guest:Yeah, it was like a master class.
Marc:I mean, it's nice that you're still friends.
Marc:Yeah, we are.
Marc:It's very nice.
Marc:That's beautiful.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right, so let's just go through.
Marc:I love this.
Marc:Okay, so Sex and the City.
Guest:I like that we're at a point in time where, yeah.
Marc:But I imagine, though, having worked as long as you had and done movies and done everything else, and even though you say that you were just a journeyman and everything else,
Marc:This was probably a break that you didn't anticipate would be as big as it was.
Marc:Correct.
Marc:And it was spectacular.
Guest:Yeah, it was.
Guest:From beginning to end.
Guest:I mean, the experience itself was spectacular.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was, I did the pilot, never thought about it again like you do.
Guest:And somebody on the street stopped me and said, hey, I saw your show.
Guest:And I was like, what show?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:she said i saw your you did a pilot i was like i literally don't remember what she's talking about yeah she's a sex instead i was like oh you saw that i haven't seen it right she was like oh it's good i was like oh okay then it got picked up and then i became panicked and tried to get out of it really i really tried to get out why because you want to do movies or because i was like well i got it all now i can do a play this year this month and then i can run do a part in a movie and then i can be strapped to it
Guest:Right, because in my head, there was like, you were on a thing, and it was seven years, and then everything was the same every day, and that terrified me, and I talked to my agents, and anyway, I'm so grateful, but they talked me out of my panic, and I went to the set the very first day.
Guest:We were shooting on Bleecker Street and 6th Avenue.
Guest:Never look back.
Guest:There wasn't one day that I didn't want to be on that set.
Guest:Not one single day that I didn't think doesn't get better than this.
Marc:Oh, that's great.
Guest:Yeah, it was the experience of a lifetime for a lot of reasons.
Marc:A lot.
Marc:I think it changed.
Marc:Well, not only did it change TV in a way, but it changed the city, and it gave a lot of people...
Guest:sort of you know an outlet of glamour that had not existed before and it integrated communities around I think it was about like hopes I mean it sort of was an idealized heightened version of what this city could promise right but I think the thing that I loved most was the storytelling was sure the clothes were fun and titillating and language salty and the city looking all sparkly but Michael Patrick King's writing and
Guest:being able to live a life that long and literally another person who gets to have all these really sort of very colorful very erratic heartbeat like that kind of is with his words yeah great a dream yeah you know what's amazing to me right now with you is that
Guest:you know i've watched some you know i've seen sex in the stadium you know i was not like oh my god it's on yeah yeah that's cool it's cool it's cool no but like not like i was with bare america for instance right in the mornings with me yelling about things yeah but um do you miss any of any oh god no
Marc:To be untethered from that dialogue day to day, like every day of that.
Marc:No matter what I feel in terms of what's going on or about politics, my revelation when I started the podcast was that existential challenges are what we all share.
Marc:And as soon as you start talking about politics, very rarely are you speaking exactly your own mind.
Marc:that right right right yeah you're gonna tell a party line yeah some kind or another yeah and that in in and of itself is divisive i mean people know my politics but there's people who do it better than me so why not i why don't i just talk about you know the difficulties of day-to-day life right as opposed to like the tone but in this particular i do it on stage election and i have done it a bit on the show cycle yeah um it is a responsibility
Marc:On the stand-up stage, I'll do a bit.
Marc:I do some.
Guest:You're doing some on what?
Marc:On Trump.
Marc:On the nature of what the American president's responsibility really is.
Marc:What qualifies someone to be that?
Marc:What is driving people to vote for one or the other?
Marc:Having a certain amount of empathy for people who I think are making the wrong decision and trying to understand that.
Marc:and also realizing that you know it's rare that these people are great people all the way through yeah and we just had one that was really good and people seem to dismiss that so like yeah yeah yeah because if you're not if i'm not a little bit diplomatic if i get strident i don't even like my tone i've been on stage recently where i'm like i don't even like my daughter right it's annoying me no i understand i understand yeah
Marc:But what I was going to say is that, like, when I see you, you know, in a movie, like, you know, I saw that, like, recently on TV, the Bruce Willis movie came on with it, you know, on the boat and stuff.
Guest:God.
Guest:Striking distance.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But, like, I just identify you as you.
Marc:Like, when I see you in the show Divorce, you know, I'm not thinking, like, oh, Carrie Bradshaw.
Marc:You know, like, I don't have that.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Like, you, to me, transcend the character, which is a beautiful thing.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:That's nice to hear.
Guest:That's a great relief.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it was great talking to you.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Likewise.
Guest:It was a dream.
Guest:A dream come true.
Guest:Seriously, like I told you in the lobby, I should repeat it for your millions and millions of listeners, but I'm just a massive, massive admirer.
Guest:Oh, well, thank you.
Guest:So it's a total, and I will not ask for more.
Guest:I will simply say, officially, make it, you were on the record inviting me to the garage, not to speak, but to look.
Marc:but on correct but on mike you can look on look on mike okay that's a cool thing actually sure for a show sure look on mike look on mike instead of instead of wtf it could be look on mike that's another spin-off yeah yeah but what is this thing you did like because i'm about to do a thing the genealogy thing because i was poking around on wikipedia because like you because i know who do you think you are
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It was amazing.
Marc:But like, because you found out a lot of stuff.
Guest:Found out a lot of stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, stuff that I, I thought we were newcomers to this country.
Guest:I thought I had no connection.
Guest:I thought I was a mutt, which I was fine and very actually.
Marc:But now it's a very defined mutt.
Guest:Very defined.
Guest:I'm not a mutt.
Marc:Oh, no, no, no.
Marc:Thank God.
Guest:My family on my mother's side got here 12 years after the Mayflower.
Guest:We were on the map.
Guest:My family.
Guest:You can find all that shit.
Guest:Yes, it's real.
Marc:Because I'm doing one.
Marc:I'm doing a gene.
Marc:They did my spit.
Guest:Oh, you're doing that one.
Guest:Well, I can't wait to hear who you are.
Marc:Me neither.
Guest:I hope you're not disappointed.
Guest:I had some concerns about who I might be.
Marc:It sounded like you won.
Marc:You hit the ancestry.
Marc:I did.
Guest:I mean, yeah.
Marc:All right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Anyway, thank you.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Do you feel good about it?
Guest:Yeah, I feel very sated, like a good meal was just had.
Marc:Well, then great.
Marc:Me too.
Marc:Good luck with the show.
Guest:Thanks, man.
Marc:Lovely.
Marc:Lovely.
Marc:You know, there's just some people that are just, they're everything you think they are and they're charisma.
Marc:And I love talking to Sarah Jessica Parker.
Marc:I'm going to play two chords over and over again for a minute.
Guest:Music Music Music
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Boomer lives!