Episode 75 - Carlos Mencia
Guest:Lock the gates!
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Pow!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:And it's also... Eh, what the fuck?
Guest:What's wrong with me?
Guest:It's time for WTF!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Mark Maron.
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:And of course, you knew what the fuck nicks.
Marc:Welcome.
Marc:Thanks for the new name.
Marc:What the fuck nicks like it.
Marc:My name is Mark Marin.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:I appreciate you guys listening.
Marc:I hope you're having a relatively decent day or night or whenever you're listening to this.
Marc:We've got an interesting show today.
Marc:Look, you guys know me.
Marc:You know where I am.
Marc:I'm sitting in my garage.
Marc:I'm surrounded by the artifacts of my life.
Marc:I've got books from college that I didn't read in college, but I still hold on to the hope that I might read them.
Marc:I've got the memorabilia.
Marc:I've got pictures from my career everywhere, you know, starting from when I was born to, you know, recently.
Marc:It's like the little Hard Rock Cafe of Marc Maron out here.
Marc:Only the food is better because I'm a better cook.
Marc:And sitting right in front of me, my friends, right in my line of vision in the newly designed Marc Maron garage studio with the new Ikea table, is a poster for the HBO comedy Half Hours from 1995.
Marc:It's a Fillmore poster.
Marc:Those were taped at the Fillmore.
Marc:And when they tape a special of any kind, they usually do a bulk of them.
Marc:They tape two of those a night.
Marc:And right under there, it says June 1, Bobcat Goldthwait, Jonathan Katz.
Marc:June 2, Mark Maron, Judy Gold.
Marc:June 3, Dana Gould and Janine Garofalo.
Marc:June 4...
Marc:Carlos Mencia.
Marc:Carlos Mencia was on those tapings.
Marc:I have a memory of Carlos because we all showed up in San Francisco at the same time.
Marc:And I didn't know who he was.
Marc:But that wasn't unusual because I didn't know the Latino circuit.
Marc:I didn't.
Marc:Obviously, I don't know everybody.
Marc:But I remember even then at that point, this kid walked in.
Marc:He's a little younger than me, but he's been doing comedy, obviously, as long as I have.
Marc:He had a hat on.
Marc:He had sunglasses on.
Marc:And I thought, who the hell is this?
Marc:Is this guy a star?
Marc:Should I know this guy?
Marc:Who is this guy?
Marc:I didn't know him and I don't really know him now, but I do know from looking at that poster and knowing my career that that guy has been doing comedy about as long as me.
Marc:I don't know that I ever watched a full episode of Mind of Mencia.
Marc:I don't know that I've ever seen him do stand up for more than 10 or 15 minutes.
Marc:But I do know his reputation.
Marc:I do know what people say about him because it's sort of hard to avoid it.
Marc:I am in the community.
Marc:And I really have not ever come in contact, you know, by proxy with somebody more hated, you know, more slagged than Carlos Mencia.
Marc:And look, you know, it's about stealing.
Marc:It's about stealing jokes.
Marc:Which is bad.
Marc:Stealing jokes is bad.
Marc:There's no denying that.
Marc:The community has dealt with joke thieves before.
Marc:Some of you listened to my Robin Williams interview.
Marc:Robin Williams was a reputed joke thief.
Marc:I talked to him about that.
Marc:But this Carlos thing is much bigger in the sense of that he has become defined by this.
Marc:And my feelings about it have shifted over the years.
Marc:Innately, one of the things that drew me to wanting to interview Carlos
Marc:was that Joe Rogan called Carlos out publicly on a night at the comedy store.
Marc:Carlos was on stage and said, look, I'm tired of you calling me, you know, Carlos Menstelia.
Marc:Because this reputation has hung over this guy for a long time, from what I understand.
Marc:And Rogan got up and said his piece.
Marc:He said, you steal material.
Marc:And then a bunch of other comics got on board and said, you know, Ari Shaffir said, you stole my joke.
Marc:about the wall that they were going to build between Texas and Mexico to keep immigrants out.
Marc:My feeling has always been that if someone steals your joke, you go up to that person and say, I think you stole my joke.
Marc:And they go, well, it's a little different.
Marc:And you go, holy shit, maybe it is a little different, but it's really the same joke.
Marc:And then you have to decide together what you're going to do about that.
Marc:You know, usually I say, well, fuck, if it's that easy to do, I'm not going to do my joke or I'm going to say, well, my joke's better and it's different enough.
Marc:You do your joke or you say, dude, that's my fucking joke.
Marc:You know, don't do it.
Marc:But it's between you and them.
Marc:My issue with Carlos was not knowing the full story and not really ever having talked to him, that when I put up his name on Facebook and on Twitter that I was going to have him on this show, just the flow of contempt and hate that came at me, not towards me, but just towards him saying, why, fuck him, fuck that guy, that guy sucks, he's a fucking asshole, he's a thief.
Marc:The amount of hate that came at this guy, a comedian, was mind-blowing to me.
Marc:Now, this is something that's been an issue with him for a long time.
Marc:I mean, that night of the HBO specials, apparently, you know, George Lopez, you know, because of that special, you know, called him out for stealing some of his material.
Marc:And this was before George was a star is before anyone knew who George was.
Marc:You know, Carlos surfaced before George, but they knew each other.
Marc:The Latino community of comics is is is insulated.
Marc:I don't know a lot of them.
Marc:But it's a world of its own.
Marc:And George called Carlos out for stealing his material on that special.
Marc:And then recently, within the last couple of years, somebody put up on YouTube, Carlos doing a bit from the DVD version of his Comedy Central Hour against a Bill Cosby bit.
Marc:And that really sealed the deal on Carlos's fate in terms of him being a thief.
Marc:Now, look, I don't want to rehash
Marc:The controversy, that's not my intention here.
Marc:My intention is to understand some facet of the comedy community, of the comedy mind, of the dynamics of the world that I live in through this person.
Marc:I'm not trying to put somebody on the hot seat for ratings or for people to go, you know, fuck that guy.
Marc:I want to understand on a human level, you know, what this is about.
Marc:Because the one thing I know is that Carlos Mencia was on that poster with me.
Marc:So the one thing I know is that, you know, he built his fucking house.
Marc:He built his clown.
Marc:And he's been doing comedy for a long time, and he was very successful.
Marc:I mean, he was a huge act for a few years.
Marc:I mean, his career is arcing a bit, and I figured that might be a good time to address some of this stuff, to figure out what really is in the mind of Mencia around this stuff, to be that hated, to be that controversial for that specific reason that there is a myth around him.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And myths can be true and they cannot be true.
Marc:But there, you know, he is the whipping boy for the comedy community, for anybody who is a comedy fan in the comedy nerd fashion.
Marc:You know, Carlos is the Antichrist.
Marc:So, of course, again, to me, that means like, well, let's see if I can get real with this guy.
Marc:Let's see if he'll answer to this.
Marc:I talked to Robin about it.
Marc:This is a real issue.
Marc:I have my own feelings about it.
Marc:But let's see if we can get into the mind dementia and figure out where his conscience is around this.
Marc:And that's what I'm going to do.
Marc:And that's what you're going to hear.
Marc:I'm going to talk to Carlos Mencia as a contemporary and as a fellow comic and see where that takes us.
Marc:I get tired of people...
Marc:you know talking shit about people after a certain point and uh in a certain way that uh by the way in the garage here at the cat ranch carlos mencia the infamous carlos mencia infamous you've become kind of infamous dude it's it's so weird man i was at the comedy store on uh what was it saturday night and uh i popped in really late yeah on purpose
Guest:right just because i knew you know all right i'm only i'm gonna bump somebody but at least it'll be like toward the end and it won't be you know so i got there literally at one something yeah did about 20 minutes or so and you know the crowd was happy they were great it was awesome you know i'm out back
Guest:And you know how this parking lot is structured and there's the big ramp where they park on the other side by the hotel.
Guest:A guy literally sitting on the door, the passenger side, holding probably a flip or something like that, pointing it at me, just yells out.
Guest:You fucking suck!
Guest:You're the worst fucking piece of shit ever!
Guest:Fuck you!
Guest:And I'm just like, really?
Guest:Is that necessary, bro?
Guest:Like, honestly?
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And Jimmy Schubert's like, Jesus fucking Christ!
Guest:What the fuck is that, Carlos?
Guest:I'm like, I don't know, man.
Guest:I get that all the time.
Guest:I have no idea.
Guest:Like, I don't understand when it got to this point where, you know, people feel that kind of like...
Marc:hate and negativity and it's amazing to me yeah easy well you know that's you know one of the reasons why i i saw it you know i when i sought out robin like there was an interesting thing that you know people forget where people come from and and what kind of work people put in to getting to where they're going to be and it becomes very easy to dismiss people for these fucked up reasons you know and and of course everyone has their reasons but
Marc:I have talked about you to radio show hosts, and I've talked about the Rogan and you and this reputation that's built out, but look at that, you see that poster right behind you?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The HBO Half Hour Comedy Hours, 1995, okay?
Marc:You're there, down on the lower left-hand side.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:You know, now that's 1995.
Marc:That's 15 fucking years ago.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:And I remember when you showed up to do those things, then I was like, who the fuck is this guy?
Marc:He already thinks he's a big star.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But the thing that interests me about you, I mean, how long have you been doing standup?
Marc:Since, uh, 88.
Marc:Since 1988, so that's 22 years.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And when you started, I mean, you've been doing comedy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now, in 1988, what name were you going by?
Guest:When I first started for about a week and a half, it was Ned Mencia.
Guest:That's my birth name, Ned Arnell Mencia.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That was the first, and then Mitzi saw me perform.
Guest:Mitzi at the comedy store.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she's just like, you can't be an angry Mexican named Ned.
Yeah.
Guest:so I go Mitzi I'm not Mexican yeah you know yeah from the beginning I knew that that was a big deal because I grew up in East LA where you know they let me know see in East LA
Guest:everybody let me know you are not mexican yeah because you know everybody's mexican so it was like dude you're from central america you know you're you're the wet back to us that's the way they treated me you're from farther you had to cross our border bitch that that was the whole is that true oh yeah so you got condescended to by mexicans even though you're a latin american dude the worst part ever ever
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I had no idea that this was the case, right?
Guest:Right.
Guest:I was a young adult.
Guest:I mean, I'm in my teens, late teens, something like that.
Guest:I'm dating this Mexican girl.
Guest:I think everything's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's great.
Guest:Everything's awesome.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She finally brings me to her dad's house.
Guest:I'm having a great conversation until he asks me where I'm from.
Guest:He's like, so what part of Mexico are you from?
Guest:I'm like, I was actually born in Honduras.
Guest:He literally was like...
Guest:fuck no no what are you doing and i'm just like holy shit what the fuck what happened what did i do right she stopped dating me bro really stopped yeah she stopped yeah and it was one of those things where i was like like what what what where we speak spanish yeah yeah right and here's the weird part
Guest:his family was illegal my family's never been illegal so i was even like bitch i have a green card fuck you yeah yeah you're the illegal but it was just like it was it was like it was like i was one step and i don't mean this in a shitty way but it's real to them i was just like i have a point above black
Marc:Well, that happens within the Mexican aristocracy.
Marc:I mean, they're light-skinned Mexicans.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then the light-skinned Mexicans are sort of like condescending to the indigenous Mexicans.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:The Mexicans from Spain.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Right.
Marc:The Spaniards are the best.
Guest:So both your parents were Honduran or just your mom?
Guest:See, it's really weird.
Guest:My birth mother and birth father have 18 kids.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:But when I was born, my uncle, who's the first person to immigrate to this country, he was actually a really great man who couldn't have kids.
Guest:So my birth mother was living in Honduras, living in poor, whatever.
Guest:My uncle came to this country, immigrated, went back to Honduras and got his two brothers and sister, which is my mom.
Guest:She was pregnant at the time.
Guest:She found out that he can't have kids.
Guest:So she said, this child I will give to you as a gift because you got me out and God didn't give you the ability to have kids.
Guest:So you were a gift.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I grew up next door to my brothers and sisters my entire life.
Guest:Not knowing.
Guest:No, knowing.
Guest:It was completely.
Guest:Oh, you knew?
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:No, that was like, that's mom.
Guest:I would be like, mom!
Guest:And two people would go like, what?
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:No, not you, mom.
Guest:That mom.
Guest:Well, I'm your mom.
Guest:No, that's my mom.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It was just like the creep.
Guest:To other people, it's really weird.
Guest:But to me, it's just totally normal.
Guest:So I have two sets.
Guest:Of mothers.
Guest:My birth mother and birth father were both born in Honduras.
Guest:My mother who raised me, she's Mexican, and my father is from Honduras as well.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And that's like the weird dynamic that I grew up with.
Guest:That's wild.
Guest:I know.
Guest:So I've always been like... It helped me in my comedy, though, and in life because...
Guest:I've always been an insider and an outsider.
Guest:I've always felt like both.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I always felt like that's my mom, but that's my mom.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I'm an American, but I'm not.
Guest:I'm treated like Mexican, but I'm not.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:But you grew up in primarily a Mexican situation.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:But now, you didn't have a white stepfather or anything?
Marc:No.
Marc:No.
Marc:You see, you get all this mince information.
Marc:And the weird thing is- Oh, that I'm German?
Guest:The whole German thing?
Marc:Yeah, where the hell does that come from?
Guest:Here's how that came from.
Guest:And it's from- You know what fucking sucks?
Guest:What sucks about that is this is like- These come from personal conversations that I've had with people that I believed were friends at the time.
Marc:Right.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Not really thinking- Like comics.
Guest:Use this as information and shit.
Marc:What, comics or writers or what?
Guest:Yeah, comics, comics.
Guest:I don't know which ones, to be honest with you.
Marc:Sure, that's all right.
Guest:And I'd say it, but no, here's how it works.
Guest:My grandfather, who's my father's father-
Guest:He spoke English, but a weird English.
Guest:And at the time, I didn't know.
Guest:So he was from the Cayman Islands, I found out.
Guest:And my great-grandfather's from the Cayman Islands.
Guest:Their last name is Holness.
Guest:That's H-O-L-N-E-S-S.
Guest:So I was watching a soccer match.
Guest:I was about 16, 17, and there was this German guy.
Guest:His name was Honus, H-O-E-N-E-S-S.
Guest:My dad's last name is spelled H-O-L-N-E-S-S.
Guest:So then I did a little bit of research, and I found out that there's a last name Honus in Germany, but there's also one in England.
Guest:So somewhere...
Guest:somewhere from there right that part of my family originated that's where this whole i'm german comes from which is fucking bizarre to me because anybody named gonzalez or ramirez i don't care how mexican you think you are somewhere a spaniard fucked your mom you know what i mean yeah like that's the reason you have that name like right most of us in in in the latin american culture are not fully fully indigenous of course got a little
Marc:bit of some shit that's right from the old country and i'm the same well the main thing is if like uh sure and the thing about the germans and the mexicans is that the germans had uh some major part in in mexican culture because in texas yeah exactly and the tuba yeah the conjunto music yeah all that all that polka shit that is integrated in conjunto music is from the germans in texas yes yes it's wild well
Marc:I guess the reason I'm asking you this is that in my mind, the idea that people get upset with you, this whole, you know, he's not a real Mexican thing.
Marc:I mean, you know, first of all, you know, Mitzi talked you into making a show business decision to change your name to Carlos.
Guest:You know what's funny?
Guest:I was- People change your name in show business all the time.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:I remember I was watching Jack Palance in, God, I was nine, maybe 10, and I'm watching That's Incredible, and he starts naming off, who do you think Slopowski-Schewinski is?
Guest:Is that Greta Garbo?
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And he's going through all these names of people, and at nine, I remember going, oh-
Guest:Everybody changes their name when they have too much ski or too much malignant, whatever.
Guest:So when she said, hey, you got to change your name.
Guest:I was like, I have an uncle named Carlos.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Carlos Mencia.
Guest:That's melodious.
Guest:That's exactly what happened.
Guest:How old were you then when you first got there?
Guest:I was like 19, 20.
Guest:So you're really a store guy.
Guest:Yeah, imagine that.
Guest:I'm 19, 20.
Guest:I'd never done stand-up before.
Guest:I had no dreams of being a stand-up.
Guest:I'm not like Robin or any of those guys that had 16 or 17.
Guest:I had none of those fucking dreams.
Guest:I grew up in East LA where in a classroom, a friend of mine was asked by the teacher, what do you want to be when you grow up?
Guest:And he was like, I think I want to be the president of the United States.
Guest:And the teacher went, you're going to be a mechanic.
Guest:You can't be president.
Guest:There's going to be no Mexican president.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Who else?
Guest:And we're all like, mechanics?
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I grew up in that environment, so I never thought of doing anything other than go to school, get good grades, and get the fuck out of this place where they shoot at me for being in the wrong corner.
Guest:For me, it literally started with, I think it was in mid-1985-ish or something like that, there was a plane that landed in Hawaii.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was flying from one island.
Guest:It was like a local commuter plane.
Guest:And the fuselage came apart.
Guest:It was 737.
Guest:And they sent on the news, flat attendants out of a plane at 7,500 feet.
Guest:She's presumed dead.
Guest:That's what they sent on the news.
Guest:I remember that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I went to work and went, can you fucking believe that?
Guest:Presumed dead.
Guest:She sucked out of a plane at 7,500 feet.
Guest:She's dead, dude.
Guest:You can say it.
Guest:What, is she wearing Kotex wings?
Guest:I don't understand it.
Guest:But I'm really angry.
Guest:I'm not trying to be...
Guest:It's funny.
Guest:I'm just really like, how can you say that?
Guest:Presumed.
Guest:Correct.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So now these guys are laughing, and so every other day I had some other stupid story that just pissed me off.
Guest:And there was this guy named Joe, and Joe was miserable.
Guest:Joe was the guy that hated his life, hated his wife, hated his kids, and he just moped in, and that was just his job.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And literally, man, Joe came up to me in the most monotone voice ever and was like,
Guest:um you're very funny and you make me laugh you should do stand-up comedy and i'm like yeah and then i turned around and went what the fuck is stand-up comedy like literally i had no idea that it was stand-up 18 or 19 i'm 18 yeah no 19 going on 20 at the time
Marc:Isn't it interesting that the reason that you were inspired is that some guy, because I speak to people who are sad, and there's something about when some guy like that that you know is sad comes up, and no one can get through to that guy.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And his wife, you know after whatever you said, you said he's still going to go back to his wife.
Marc:But in that moment, he got a little bit of relief.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that was what inspired you.
Guest:That affected me because I'd never seen him smile.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's powerful.
Guest:He smiled, and I was like, whoa.
Yeah.
Marc:so i went to the i went to the improv and i remember uh the one performer i remember was rick dukeman i remember rick he kind of lifts and he was kind of you know he used to be a fat guy and then he became a thin guy is he still alive that guy i don't know i don't know i remember him well he was always at the improv yeah and he was really fat once and he's angry and he was sort of edgy yeah yeah yeah yeah and i just so identified with that edginess you know yeah
Guest:he was doing a bit about being in line at the supermarket and coupons.
Guest:You know, one of those bits.
Guest:But it was just so like, and I'm waiting in line and the fucking coupons!
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And the crowd's going,
Guest:fucking nuts and i'm laughing my ass off shows over and it this was like a scene in a movie we're walking out the hallway i stopped everybody's walking past me i look back to the empty stage and i didn't think it i felt yeah i could do that right
Marc:Right.
Guest:It wasn't like, I could do that.
Guest:I think I could do that.
Guest:It was literally, I can do that and I can do that well.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You can lock into that.
Guest:And so then I told a cousin of mine who's in a wheelchair.
Guest:He got shot when he was a kid, about eight, I think he was eight years old.
Guest:And I've always been his inspiration because I've always accomplished all the stuff that he wanted to.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He couldn't.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He's in a wheelchair and blah, blah, blah.
Guest:So I made the mistake of telling him, you know what?
Guest:I'm going to try to stand up for comedy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, dude, every day, from the day that I told him, hey, when are we going to go do that thing?
Guest:When are we going to go do stand-up?
Guest:So, one day, I just threw his ass.
Guest:I literally just picked up his wheelchair, threw it in the car and said, we're going right fucking now.
Guest:And it was- Did you use him to get on stage?
Marc:No, no.
Guest:It would have been great.
Guest:That would have been awesome.
Guest:Come on, just do it for my friend.
Guest:Oh, that would have been funny, man.
Guest:I've never used him like that.
Guest:I wish I did, but I get to-
Guest:The greatest story though, he is the greatest joke.
Guest:Like he's the, not the bud, but he is the genesis of the funniest joke I've ever told in my life because it's a great story.
Guest:But I went to the, it was on a Tuesday.
Guest:So I found out that the Laugh Factory is having amateur night on a Tuesday.
Guest:So I literally, on the way there, stopped by a bookstore.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:purchased a joke book because i what am i going to talk about yeah i had one joke yeah the the joke about the airline that was the only joke i had presume dead that's it presume dead that's all i got man that's it so i'm like reading joke jokes going oh okay i can use that and say i went to school and my teachers okay i can do that and i just ripped you know like whatever right out of there and and i went on stage
Guest:They said it's the first time I've ever done it.
Guest:I did like three minutes.
Guest:I ran out of jokes.
Guest:I literally ran out of jokes and said, well, I ran out of jokes, guys.
Guest:Good night.
Guest:Bye.
Guest:Get off stage.
Guest:And Jamie's like, hey, buddy, I love that thing you do where you pretend to be.
Guest:Buddy, it's great.
Guest:You pretend to be.
Guest:I go, pretend?
Guest:I don't know what you're talking about.
Guest:I've never been on stage before.
Guest:Buddy, no, it's good.
Guest:You can tell me.
Guest:I'm like, I'm telling you.
Guest:I've never been on stage before.
Guest:He thought you were pretending to what?
Guest:To be on stage for the first time.
Guest:thought that was a gimmick oh like hey that's my first time ever he was like yeah i like that good buddy buddy yeah i'm like nah man i i've never been on stage before that's my first time ever i don't even know what just happened the next day i just stopped going to work you know that i'm sick i'm sick until they fired me like a week later yeah and uh my parents were fucking well my dad wasn't pissed my dad give a shit my mom was just so disappointed bro and
Guest:and hated it and luckily like in 1989 i think it was and my parents are immigrants so you you know they're just like we didn't come to this country so you can tell a goddamn joke why don't you be funny at your job get a job and you know and my dad's like if he wants to juggle it let him be a clown
Marc:you know and i'm like i'm not a clown dad it's not like that well you know what i'm on your side and fuck you and i'm like oh dude you don't get it bro it's not yeah okay whatever dude well the interesting thing about about that about choosing that that outlet you know you get i i you know some people criticize you for for stereotyping they criticize you for being a racist but what i sense that that is interesting is i would imagine there's a certain white person you know uh disposition a white bird white man's burden and there's also the
Marc:The sort of like, you know, alternative kind of, you know, intellectual crowd that's going to make decisions about you because of how they see you.
Marc:But I how does the Latino community take you in or react to you?
Guest:Well, the respect that I get from from my community is not just as a comedian.
Guest:It's more like he speaks the truth.
Guest:He speaks for us.
Guest:He defends us.
Guest:You know, he's like as soon as this law got passed.
Guest:In Arizona?
Guest:Yeah, in Arizona, everybody's like, what are you going to do about it?
Guest:What are you going to say about it?
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And?
Guest:They want me to do it, expect me to do it.
Guest:Right now, I'm shooting a sketch, I think on Friday.
Guest:Yeah, on Friday, I'm shooting a sketch that I'm going to put out, I think on...
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I'm going to put it on my website and YouTube, one of those.
Guest:But it's basically a kit on how not to look or act like an illegal alien.
Guest:It's as crazy as it sounds.
Guest:It's exactly what you think it is.
Guest:But...
Guest:I get like love and respect.
Marc:What do you think about stereotypes?
Marc:Because it seems to me like, you know, as I've been in comedy for a long time now and I start to see the effect of, you know, what stereotyping does to an audience that a lot of times the stereotyping.
Marc:The group that you're stereotyping seems to get the most out of it on some level because a lot of times stereotypes are true.
Marc:They ring true to a certain part of the population.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And a certain part of the population that you're stereotyping that it enables them to laugh at them.
Marc:When does a stereotype become something wrong?
Guest:You know when stereotypes become wrong?
Guest:When you or the audience or you communicate to the audience that there are no exceptions.
Guest:That's when a stereotype becomes bad.
Guest:I assume that my audience is not retarded.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And I assume that they understand that... There's an understanding that, look, not all blanks are this.
Guest:We're just talking about the people that engage in this.
Guest:And you can't ignore that.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:The other side of it is...
Guest:When I do a show with only Mexicans, let's just say, all Mexicans, all Latinos, I actually take those a little further.
Guest:I go deeper into that and say, you need to stop doing this shit because people are watching.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:But when I'm doing like a regular show, I don't go that deep.
Guest:So with the stereotypes for me, it's more about be responsible with them.
Yeah.
Guest:in the sense that make them understand because if somebody were to say during a joke yeah they're all like that I would literally stop the joke and say no dick face not all Mexicans wear fucking sombreros and maracas on a donkey painted like a fucking zebra that doesn't happen I'd say there's very few now exactly so there's some but there's not a lot
Guest:I don't see them around here.
Marc:It's very Mexican neighborhood.
Guest:I know.
Guest:The issue, see, the problem with the Mexican culture specifically in this country is unlike Italians or any other group, there was a concentrated group of years where these people came in and then it stopped.
Guest:So Italians had their rush.
Guest:Germans had their rush.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:The Irish had their rush and that was it.
Guest:The problem with Mexicans is that since the 1970s, there's a rush, and then those people graduate.
Guest:So all the people in the 70s, they don't live in the projects.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:They live out here.
Guest:They live in Pasadena.
Guest:They live in Fontana.
Guest:Except they got replaced by a new set of them, basically.
Guest:So those people now have chickens in their backyard and the whole stereotype.
Guest:And then they get to like, hey, man, we can buy chickens at the store.
Guest:We don't need to.
Guest:So then they move out and the next group moves in and they bring.
Guest:So they just that that stereotype.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And there's a tension between us being perpetrated.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:There's a class issue within the community.
Marc:Yeah, because now the black community is right.
Guest:We're like, bro, I don't I don't have chickens in my backyard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My grandfather does.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:There's always that pause of like anybody.
Guest:Well, yeah, my uncle, you know, but that's and that's our problem with it.
Guest:Like the issue as a Latino in this country, there's only so far I can run before I get yanked by this tether of, you know, the dude that that's still my family member that lives in East L.A.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I'm not like you.
Guest:Fuck.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And that's where the stereotype and that's where the shitty part of like, where do I go with this?
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like in writing this bit that I'm telling you about.
Guest:Okay, I have to deal in stereotypes because that's what this law is.
Guest:This law states that, you know, SB 1070 in Arizona, it states that if during lawful contact, the police have a reasonable suspicion.
Guest:That's what it is.
Guest:A reasonable suspicion that you might be an illegal alien.
Guest:So, okay.
Guest:So, I got to go, okay, I want to write a bit that's ridiculous.
Guest:I don't want to take it serious, Will, so I'm going to make it an infomercial.
Guest:It's going to be a kit that I sell on how to, you know, act American or be American or look American.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I have to go with all of the stereotypes, you know what I mean?
Guest:And so...
Guest:Can I write a smarter bit?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The problem is, is it going to really hit what it needs to hit?
Guest:Will it really get the reaction that I want it to get and hit the buttons and make people go, hey, the way I want it to?
Guest:I don't think so.
Guest:And so there's choices that I make as an artist.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Well, I think that's true.
Marc:And I think that you deal in...
Marc:The thing about what you just said is that, will it work?
Marc:Will it hit?
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I think that you're the kind of comic that you have to hit.
Marc:You know what?
Guest:That is my big... You're right.
Guest:That's the biggest... And God, I fucking envy that about other comics that they can do whatever.
Guest:You give a shit deeply.
Marc:I do.
Guest:I want to change the fucking world.
Marc:I really do.
Guest:I want to make the world a better place.
Marc:But you're also highly competitive.
Guest:With myself, though.
Marc:But, like, let's be honest.
Marc:No, no, no.
Guest:I'm being really honest.
Guest:I use competition with others as a ploy to get myself fired up.
Guest:But once I'm on stage and then I get off stage, that goes away.
Marc:But you want to bury everything that came before.
Marc:I mean, you have a killer instinct up there.
Marc:That you're not going to take them not locking in with your shit.
Marc:And you're going to go after them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's your style.
Guest:That comes from wanting to not fail.
Guest:That comes from fear, though.
Guest:Of course, it all comes from fear.
Guest:Yeah, I'm afraid to fail, bro.
Guest:I'm afraid to suck.
Guest:Look, I'll tell you, it's funny.
Guest:I'm going to therapy.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Because I want to, as a human being,
Guest:Change that part of myself of doing everything out of fear as opposed to doing things out of love and caring.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:Your therapist Jewish?
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:It was my idea to do it.
Guest:But my therapist is really metaphysical and he's a really great guy.
Guest:But...
Guest:I can track it down to a point in time in my life.
Guest:I was a little kid living in East LA on Bonnie Beach.
Guest:There was a guy walking down the street.
Guest:I knew him.
Guest:He lived around the block from me.
Guest:I knew where his house was, everything.
Guest:I'm four, literally like four.
Guest:He's huffing, right?
Guest:So he's spraying paint into a paper bag and sniffing it.
Guest:He walks up to me and I remember exactly what he said.
Guest:Hey man, Ned, where do I live?
Guest:Where the fuck is my house, man?
Guest:And I remember going, bro, it's around the corner over there.
Guest:It's the pink one.
Guest:And I walked him to his house.
Guest:And from that point in time in my life, I can honestly say that everything has been, I don't want to be like that.
Guest:I don't want to do that.
Guest:You know, I didn't have...
Guest:a drink until i was 42 yeah and i'm 42 now so literally six months ago really was the first time i ever had a drink how was that never been high never it was it was weird but you know because i'm a control freak you do it
Guest:because i want to change because like so you thought like maybe this is the way to go now well no i want to be able to enjoy a glass of wine sure sure and not be afraid that i'm gonna you know because dude my biggest fear is that's literally my fear my fear has always been no dude you're gonna have a glass of wine
Guest:And then you're going to end up sucking a dick on a corner.
Guest:It's like, you know what I mean?
Guest:There's no in between for me.
Guest:Like, I go to the extreme, man.
Guest:So in my head, I'm like, oh, my God.
Guest:No, I can't have a glass of wine.
Guest:Why not?
Guest:I'm going to end up sucking a dick on a corner.
Guest:You know that.
Guest:And people are looking at me like, what is wrong with you?
Guest:You're out of your fucking mind.
Guest:But that's where I grew up.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:My cousin Benji and I were hanging outside.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:He went upstairs and he got shot.
Guest:Um, you know, my best friend, Jorge...
Guest:He ended up smoking pot, and I was like, no big deal.
Guest:And then three years later, he's in jail for killing somebody over a coke deal.
Guest:I mean, that's the life that I saw.
Guest:So I was always like that.
Guest:So when I'm on stage, it really isn't about anybody else.
Guest:It's really about, dude, I need to be great because I need to pay my fucking bills, and I need to take care of my family, and I need to... It's not even...
Guest:It's not even like I want to bury that guy or that guy.
Guest:Because once I get off stage, sometimes I feel like weird about that.
Guest:But when I'm on stage, it's like, dude, it all goes back to that point in time.
Guest:If I suck, I'm going to end up broke.
Guest:And then I'm going to do drugs.
Guest:And I'm like, dude, every fucking thing I don't do ends up with me sucking a dick in a corner for some crack.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's interesting because also when we're on stage and I feel this as well, it's, it's, we, it's the only place in my life where, where I know it's mine.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I have control of this situation and I feel engaged and alive and I'm, my brain's not, you know, freaking out about anything.
Marc:It's like, I'm, I'm, I'm completely present and it's my fucking show.
Guest:Yeah, that's exactly what it is.
Guest:And I feel that and, and I want that and I love that.
Guest:But it also comes from being disrespected, you know what I mean?
Guest:Not feeling like I ever got my just due respects.
Marc:In life?
Guest:In life in general, you know what I mean?
Guest:I was never Mexican enough.
Guest:But then when I would go to Mexico, they call me a pocho, which literally means like you're an outsider.
Guest:But the weird thing is you grew up in a Mexican culture.
Guest:Correct.
Guest:But then I go to Honduras and they're like, you're Mexican.
Guest:No, I'm not.
Guest:Fuck, are you serious?
Guest:And so I've never felt like I've ever got the respect.
Guest:Even in stand-up comedy, I've gotten the accolades.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I've got the money.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've had the TV show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I've had movies.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I have the respect.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And when that happens and you want it,
Guest:Or you at least would love a moment like that.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It just digs at you.
Guest:And I'm not the type of person to go up on stage and complain or whine about it.
Marc:But I've also noticed that, you know, I mean, what happened is, you know, you got called out publicly.
Marc:and you know by joe rogan and i i've actually i you know it's weird carlos because i you know i actually addressed this right you know in writing and and just last week you know i talked about it on a radio show and i talk about you and i talk about him about rogan right
Marc:And in my mind, and this is from a guy, I used to be the guy that used to go up to comics and go, I think that's so-and-so's bit.
Marc:I think that's so-and-so's.
Marc:I was that guy.
Marc:And then I started to realize as time went on that, look, a lot of bits anyone can do.
Marc:There's only so much reality to draw from.
Marc:And then it became my mind that if someone takes my bit, my bit that I know is mine, then I go talk to that guy.
Marc:And I say, that's my bit.
Marc:Now,
Marc:now we need to address this because you know i i want to give you an opportunity to explain this because i watched that movie you know i am comic you know and i saw in your eyes you're like fuck yeah i did it i did it right but i also saw the pain and now i talked to you about this and this has got to be killing you so well well let's let's clear it up i mean what happened so here's what happened i'm at the you're telling me the truth going going back no seriously going back he was a buddy of mine
Marc:Well, I mean, let's talk... Right, okay.
Marc:And I'll set it up so... You talk about you and Rogan, and then we'll talk about the stealing.
Guest:But all of it.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:A long, long time ago, you know, a long, long time ago.
Marc:What year?
Guest:I mean, you're not talking about... Probably 80... 88.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:88.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There was a comedian and I, we were talking about... I had this bit about G.I.
Guest:Joe...
Guest:and how there's no Mexican G.I.
Guest:Joe dolls.
Guest:And he was talking to me about a bit that he was thinking about, about there's no Barbie dolls.
Guest:Is it Freddy?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:Who was it?
Guest:Carlos Oscar.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So, from that conversation, I went, wow, that's a funny idea.
Guest:So...
Guest:The next night, I went to a club and did my bit and incorporated the things that he was talking about.
Guest:But he's a comedian.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he was talking about a bit that he wanted to do.
Guest:So he came up, he showed up.
Guest:I didn't know he was going to show up.
Guest:Not that I, but you know, whatever.
Guest:I did the bit and I got off stage and I was like, hey, did you see that?
Guest:And he looked at me and he went, that's the bit I told you I was going to do.
Guest:And I looked in his eyes and I saw this, like I raped him.
Guest:Literally.
Guest:And I was like, oh shit.
Guest:But we were just like, they were flowing words.
Guest:And he was like, no, but that's my bit.
Guest:And from that point on,
Guest:And whenever somebody would come up to me, like I would at the comedy store, I would hear, hey, man, you know, Eddie Griffin's pissed at you because he said that you did a bit of his.
Guest:I would walk up to Eddie and go, hey, Eddie, they said that there was a bit that I do that you did or Mooney.
Guest:Hey, Mooney, somebody said that you do this bit and I do this bit.
Guest:This is what I do because I know you're not going to watch me.
Guest:I know Mooney is not going to sit down and watch any of the comics.
Guest:So I'm like, this is my bit.
Guest:What's your bid?
Guest:Oh, brother, it's cool.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:So I always, like, addressed that issue.
Marc:And everybody, and the weird thing about the comedy stories, everybody, you know, there's about nine or ten guys a night doing the same, roughly the same subject matter.
Marc:Correct.
Marc:I mean, you know, if you're doing topical things, which, you know, that's why I try not to anymore.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I'm just going to be a philosopher.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Okay, so you usually said, okay.
Guest:So this kind of gets perpetrated.
Mm-hmm.
Guest:Partly, I think, because I didn't drink and I didn't smoke.
Guest:So I've never been in that fraternity of comedians.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because I never hung out in the back while they're doing all that stuff.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I never engaged in talking shit about the comics, which is...
Guest:Such a big ritual and rite of passage for young comedians, it seems to me.
Guest:Like, from the outside looking in.
Guest:When they're young.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Young comics just sit there and talk shit about, oh, that guy's not funny.
Guest:And I hear that.
Guest:I was never in that fraternity.
Marc:I still do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:See, I can't.
Marc:I'm starting not to.
Guest:Yeah, I can't.
Marc:Because that comes from fear, too.
Guest:Well, my thing is...
Guest:Look, I grew up where Mexicans talk shit about white people, and 99.99% of all the Mexicans killed are killed by Mexicans.
Guest:So I just never understood that.
Marc:So you were never a player here.
Guest:So I never did that.
Guest:Even to this day, the worst thing that you can hear of me...
Guest:On a radio station.
Guest:If somebody asked me, why do you think Joe is doing this?
Guest:Jealousy?
Guest:And I said, maybe.
Guest:That's like the worst thing I've ever said.
Guest:So this reputation is kind of lingering since the beginning of my career.
Guest:But it never just went anywhere.
Guest:Then I wrote a Taco Bell joke.
Guest:And it was the most obvious fucking joke of all time.
Guest:It was when they created the Enchirito.
Guest:And it was basically, what did they get?
Guest:An enchilada to fuck a burrito.
Guest:It wrote itself.
Guest:It literally wrote itself.
Marc:That's actually probably what they meant.
Guest:That's exactly what they meant.
Guest:It's a mix of both.
Guest:So I did a joke and then George Lopez came up to me and this was the biggest mistake of my career.
Guest:And I can now say that that was ego driven and it was a lot of fear.
Guest:But he came up to me and he's like, you know, that's my joke.
Guest:And I was like, bro, it's a Taco Bell joke.
Guest:You can't be a Latino and claim Taco Bell as your subject.
Guest:You just can't.
Guest:And he was like, that's my joke.
Guest:Now, today, today, I would have looked at George and said, you know what, bro?
Guest:You've been doing it longer than I have.
Guest:Out of respect.
Guest:Go ahead.
Guest:Keep the joke.
Guest:But I was a young comic.
Guest:I didn't know that I was going to write anything funnier than that.
Guest:I mean, at that point, every funny joke.
Marc:You were going to fight for the entry.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Fuck yeah, man.
Guest:That's a great joke.
Guest:What are you talking about?
Guest:That's the one that's going to put me on HBO.
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:That was my attitude.
Guest:And so I was like, you know what?
Guest:You're crazy, man.
Guest:You have a problem.
Marc:But at this juncture.
Marc:sure i'd like to point out that you know if within a community an ethnic community even within the black community that there are shared premises now you know i'm not apologizing for anybody but i you know part of this discussion that i'm having with you has to do with the fact that there's a difference between original jokes and and relatively easy jokes made from a certain ethnic angle i agree i i completely agree and and so that that got perpetrated as you stole from lopez put it a little bit more right you know kind of he he wasn't
Guest:On the radar as much, you know what I mean?
Guest:But it just brought it up to another level.
Marc:But now you were the guy that stole from George Lopez and you were a reputed thief at the comedy store.
Marc:So what you're talking about now, and this is just coming off you also, interestingly, at the beginning of your career.
Marc:Oh, very early.
Marc:But knowing you were funny at the very beginning, you said, well, I'm going to get a joke book.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Now, I think what's interesting is that we're discussing, you know, you can call them hack or you can call them stock, but these are topics that are out there.
Marc:And, you know, a lot of comics do them.
Marc:So your approach as the comic that you are saying, well, I know that topic's out there, but this is my angle.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:And, you know, I've never had a problem with being called a hack.
Right.
Guest:or that I do stock jokes.
Guest:That I've never had an issue with because like you said, it's different when you grow up.
Guest:I think if I was a comic that had grown up in a small town and I was the only one of three comedians, I think I would have been a lot more respect.
Guest:I had a better perspective or a different perspective on material because it would have been just like three of us.
Guest:So I would have been like, oh, come on, man.
Guest:It's just Mark, me, and Eric.
Guest:I'm not going to do your joke, bro.
Guest:I mean, we're the only three.
Guest:But I will say that anytime anybody's ever said, especially before all this bullshit, you know, hey, that guy said or you took my I addressed it and I dropped it or I changed it.
Guest:But but I never like said, fuck you.
Guest:I always addressed it.
Guest:No, because even Lopez after.
Guest:About a year or two after, and this is the story that he says that he punched me in the face or some shit.
Guest:I was having dinner at the gaucho grill that used to exist across the street from the improv.
Guest:I mean, from the laugh factory.
Guest:I look up and his name is there.
Guest:I told my girlfriend at the time, you know what?
Guest:I need to go fix this.
Guest:I need to go fix this.
Guest:So I went up to George and I said, hey, George, you know, we need to fix this because someday people are going to ask us to work together.
Guest:And it's going to happen because just because of who we are.
Guest:we need to squash this and then his wife was like fuck you you know what you did you know who you are and then he grabbed he grabbed my shirt and i looked at him and i said do you really want to do this here because we were upstairs in the balcony yeah and he and he let me go and i walked away and at that point i was like okay i tried here's the ironic part about that like five years later after that
Guest:Somebody, you know, somebody called me and said, you know, you and George Lopez and Paul Rodriguez should do a show together.
Guest:And I had already given money to somebody as a silent partner and told them, put this show together, offer him whatever their quotes are.
Guest:whatever they need to do whatever do it this is my money because nobody would do it and uh we did a tour called the three amigos in uh in texas and we sold like 50 000 seats all together in like four or five cities me lopez and paul rodriguez this was like you know in the mid 90s and this was after all that shit yeah
Marc:So now, okay, so you did this thing with Lopez.
Guest:So now the Lopez thing goes on, and it kind of disappears.
Marc:A little bit.
Marc:Well, I guess he kind of probably either let it go or just thought it was below him to talk about it.
Marc:But it's interesting that you guys made business decisions to work with each other.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And then now you've still got this reputation hanging over you, but it doesn't become an international incident until Joe Rogan.
Guest:keeps saying, Carlos Mastelia, Carlos Mastelia, Carlos Mastelia.
Marc:This is before you had the- This is way before any of this stuff.
Marc:In the mid-90s.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I don't know about that.
Guest:It's probably more toward the 2000s.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Because we were buddies for a while.
Guest:He just calls you that.
Guest:He befriended George.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And then George influenced him.
Guest:So then I'm at the comedy store and-
Guest:And, you know, a buddy of mine who was a writer on my show, Fox, Kirk Fox.
Guest:I know Kirk.
Guest:Gets introduced.
Guest:So he introduces him as, oh, this guy works with, you know, Carlos Manstelia, blah, blah, blah.
Guest:And I was there.
Guest:And I was just fucking sick of this shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because, and here's what you got to understand.
Guest:If I actually really did consciously steal shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I would have shut the fuck up.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Right.
Guest:I would have just left.
Guest:I would have just been like, you know what?
Guest:I got a TV show and a career.
Guest:You wouldn't think you would have overcompensated?
Guest:Fuck him.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It could have gone either way.
Guest:Not what I did, bro.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I went on stage.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:After.
Guest:Kirk.
Guest:Kirk.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I said, Joe, come up here, man.
Guest:What fucking joke have I ever stole from you?
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's how it started.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was like, well, you've never stolen my joke.
Guest:And I'm like, so what the fuck is your problem?
Yeah.
Guest:Like, I've never got that.
Guest:I'm like, I don't understand it.
Guest:I mean, I understand somebody coming up to me and saying, you stole my shit.
Guest:It was just really difficult to have somebody say, well, you just take other people's stuff.
Guest:I'm like, well, what does that have to do with you?
Guest:So then...
Guest:He said, well, there's comics in here that, you know, say.
Guest:So then that's when the joke about the fence, which like 15 of us did, you know, the Mexicans building the fence.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So then Ari Sheffield was like, you took that joke for me because one time I opened for you.
Guest:I'm like, you've never opened for me.
Guest:Oh, no, no.
Guest:One time I performed before you because you let me do a spot before you.
Guest:And I did that joke.
Guest:I'm like, do you think I was watching you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I let you do a spot during my show because a friend of mine said, hey, let Ari go.
Guest:And you repay me by doing this to me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So then.
Guest:That video, somebody recorded that, which at the time- 2007.
Guest:Something had already happened at the comedy store with video.
Guest:And some of us other comedians got together and said, look, we're not going to go perform there if you guys allow people to record us.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because we're doing stuff that might end up on The Tonight Show or whatever.
Guest:And we don't want that out in the internet, in the biosphere, before we actually do the bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I was under the impression that none of this was going on.
Guest:So for me, this was Kennison having a fight in the back with Vinnie Curdle and he pulled a gun.
Guest:These were those stories that I heard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This was just me and him on stage.
Guest:Right.
Guest:getting it out between us in front of the that was it yeah you know and the next day somebody had recorded it with a with a phone and it was on the internet but it was crappy and whatever right you know then uh they told him you know don't don't do anything with that recording
Guest:Of course, he did the editing.
Guest:He put it out.
Guest:And that kind of Joe did.
Guest:And that became, well, Joe didn't read, man.
Guest:But then that went out.
Guest:Then that became like a big, big deal.
Guest:And that's the first day, believe it or not, when that video went out.
Guest:And then I started getting all the reaction that I realized, oh, shit.
Guest:I'm popular.
Guest:I'm being serious.
Guest:I knew I sold tickets and I knew I was making money, but I had no fucking idea.
Marc:What were the emails like?
Guest:That I was popular enough that people were waiting, waiting for an opportunity to just say, you are a piece of shit.
Guest:And that's what came.
Guest:Just the barrage of you should fucking die.
Guest:You're a piece of shit.
Guest:Just the fucking worst.
Guest:I mean, I'm talking about...
Guest:Last year in December, I tweeted, I'm going to Iraq and I get, you know, posts back saying, well, I hope you fucking die while you're there.
Guest:Like that kind of visceral hate.
Guest:And then here's my other big fucking dumb mistake.
Guest:But you kind of understand, like, this is why I wanted to go from the beginning as opposed to so you can understand, like, why these decisions got made, whether they were right or wrong in anyone's eyes.
Guest:So I'm doing my special.
Guest:I'm shooting a special.
Guest:Right.
Guest:This is now this is after that.
Guest:And, you know, of course, I said to my to my people, I want to fight this battle.
Guest:You know, I want to fight this.
Guest:I want to fucking go on radio, do it.
Guest:And they're like, you know what?
Guest:Shut the fuck up.
Guest:You made a mistake by opening your mouth in the first place.
Guest:That's my managers, agents, publicists, everybody, crisis manager guy.
Guest:I was like, I want to fucking address this shit.
Guest:They were like, you will not.
Guest:You will shut up.
Guest:You will let this blow over.
Guest:They didn't understand that the internet's forever.
Guest:It's like an echo that never stops.
Guest:They didn't get that.
Guest:They were thinking traditional story hits, it goes away.
Guest:They didn't see what this new world is like.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So they told me to be quiet.
Guest:And, you know, that's been the hardest fucking thing.
Marc:But what happened?
Marc:What did you do?
Marc:What was the next thing you did?
Guest:So then I'm performing.
Guest:I'm doing a special.
Guest:Chris McGuire and Jeff Schimmel are helping me, you know, put it together.
Guest:And Jeff comes up to me and says, listen, there's a joke that you do that sounds very similar.
Guest:And I was like, dude, I'm fucking tired of this shit.
Guest:Whoever the fuck you're going to say, I don't know what the joke is.
Guest:I don't know what his joke is.
Guest:I don't know what joke you're going to tell me.
Guest:And he goes, listen, there's a joke that you do right now that sounds very similar to a joke that Bill Cosby does.
Guest:And I'm like, well, you know what?
Guest:I've never seen it.
Guest:I don't know what you're talking about.
Guest:And I'm just fucking tired of skirting the issue.
Guest:Have you never seen it?
Guest:That one?
Guest:No.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Which joke was it?
Guest:It was a joke about how...
Guest:It's a basic joke about how dads are the ones that help their sons become athletes.
Guest:But when they become athletes and become popular and they get interviewed, they say, I love you, mom.
Guest:Oh, right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So the joke was born from my brother.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My brother's kid, you know, he wants to put him in Pop Warner football.
Guest:The mom is like, no, he's going to get hurt in his head.
Guest:And my brother's like, no, man.
Guest:So my brother busts his ass to get him ready.
Guest:And, you know, he has a decent year.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we go to his banquet, and then the fucker's like, I want to thank my mom.
Guest:And I'm like, you piece of shit.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:So in my head, it clicks.
Guest:And then in my head, I see a montage of, of course, you know, hi, mom, hi, mom, hi, mom, hi, mom.
Guest:And I go, I got to do this fucking joke.
Guest:Well...
Guest:When that came out, that brought real legitimacy to the argument.
Guest:That's like the one thing that really fucked things up.
Guest:To the argument of the people that say, look, you know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah, because with this other joke, 10 people did it.
Guest:It was almost like, eh, the wall.
Guest:Everybody does it.
Guest:But with that joke, it was like, oh, dude.
Guest:And people refused to believe that I didn't see the joke.
Guest:What I say is, do I come off as that retarded, as that stupid?
Guest:Do I come off as somebody dumb enough to take a joke from an iconic performance from one of the most beloved and iconic comedians of all time and think that nobody would see it after having a reputation for years of fucking thievery?
Guest:I would...
Guest:never be that fucking dumb i don't take jokes but if i did i take it from some fucking mook that nobody knows i wouldn't do it from fucking bill cosby in i don't know if it was himself or what which one it was but i would just not do that that's that's fucking dumb right and so when that happened you know it brought
Guest:The people that are in your circle who were kind of like, I don't know about it to like, well, I can't defend that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, so even people that like me don't defend me because they just, you know what I mean?
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's just like, I don't know what to say about that one.
Guest:And, you know, what happened was when the special came out, the producers omitted that.
Guest:You know, they kind of protected me and went, take that fucking joke out.
Guest:But when it went to video, none of the producers were around anymore.
Guest:So they just dumped all of the footage into it and they didn't omit that part.
Guest:And so when that came out, that's when, you know, and it went crazy.
Guest:And yeah, it fucking hurts, man.
Marc:It hurts like fucking shit.
Marc:Well, I can tell, and that was what I sensed that when I saw that I Am Comic documentary.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And you were sort of manic, and you said you stole everything.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Why?
Guest:Well, because you can only say, I don't steal shit for so long, and it's still there.
Guest:And at a certain point, you just kind of go, okay.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I'm going to make a mockery of it.
Guest:I'm going to be goofy with it.
Guest:I'm going to be stupid with it.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Because you just, you know, look, dude, whatever anybody else thinks, you know, whatever any other person thinks,
Guest:However intelligent or talented that you think I am, I work really fucking hard at it.
Marc:I believe that.
Guest:However, whatever you think.
Marc:That's clear.
Marc:Whatever you think of my shit.
Marc:No one gets as successful as you are by doing anything else.
Guest:And I think about it.
Guest:And you know what I mean?
Guest:I think about the repercussions of it.
Guest:I think about, you know what I mean?
Guest:Like right now, I have power.
Guest:At this very moment in time, I can say some shit to really piss off Latinos and create real hatred toward white America.
Guest:I have that power right now.
Guest:I could put out a special right now or do some shit online at a comedy club or at a performance with all Latinos and just say, you know, fuck white people and all that kind of shit.
Guest:And it would kill.
Guest:They would love that right now.
Guest:I don't do that, man, because I feel like Spider-Man.
Guest:Don't be doing dumb shit just because you can.
Guest:Don't take advantage of this and make all these people like you, but actually do harm to human beings.
Guest:That's not what I do.
Guest:I'm a comedian.
Guest:That's real for me.
Guest:So when I'm on stage, it's like, you know what I mean?
Guest:Especially when I'm on stage at the Comedy Store and I look back and I see one of the comedians that's on the video saying, yeah, Carlos steals shit.
Guest:He's never stolen from me, but he steals shit.
Guest:Those are the moments when I'm like, you have to go on after me, motherfucker.
Guest:Follow this shit, bitch.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Follow this fucking stolen joke, you piece of shit.
Guest:And that happens at those moments too.
Guest:But I have to, you know...
Guest:I feel sometimes like I have to overcome all that stuff.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And then it got to the point where I realized, okay, Milton Berle has that reputation and Robin Williams has that reputation and I'm going to die with that reputation.
Guest:And the only time that I'm really going to get...
Guest:you know accolades from my peers is when i'm past you know when i'm gone maybe not dead but gone long enough from comedy that people will be like you know you know what for all the this was the good stuff he did or this was the positive or when those moments happen and i've kind of
Guest:relegated myself to understanding that and accepting that as a truth you know what i mean and then on the other hand just when i feel like this and i feel shitty and i feel vulnerable and i feel fucked up um i'm telling you man the the universe speaks you know because every time i'm having a moment
Guest:I'll go somewhere and somebody will give me the most meaningful and enlightening and beautiful thing to say.
Guest:And those are the moments that I feed off of.
Guest:Like I have fights with fans of mine who say, who email me and go, you know what?
Guest:I don't care that you steal shit, you do it better.
Guest:And I'm like, no, no, no, no.
Marc:I think there's a point to be had there because this is, you know, you've been as honest, I think, as you've been about this stuff with me here.
Marc:I've never been this honest.
Marc:I've never opened up like this before.
Guest:I've never let anybody in like that.
Guest:But I know that, see, the one thing about you that I know is, and not that you're on my side or anybody's side,
Guest:But that's what I like, that you don't have an agenda.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Most people have an agenda with this.
Guest:And if you have that, I can't talk to you.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Because I want to reveal myself.
Marc:Well, one thing I've said about you, and I'll defend this, is that we've addressed the issue of stealing.
Marc:But the one thing I know about you is that you paid your fucking dues.
Marc:You did stand-up comedy.
Marc:It's all you wanted to do.
Marc:It was your job.
Marc:You wanted to be the best at it.
Marc:And you built the clown.
Marc:You built your house.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now, you know, whether you're not, you know, whoever thinks that you stole 10 minutes of jokes or 20 minutes of jokes, you know, it matters in your conscience and it matters, you know, to whoever's going to take that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But they're not coming to see your jokes.
Marc:Right.
Marc:They're coming to see you.
Marc:Right.
Marc:They're not.
Marc:They don't.
Marc:It's not even what you say.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So much as, you know, we like that.
Marc:That's the guy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's that Carlos guy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:At the end of the day, you and I are only as funny as the last show that we did.
Guest:And that's just, you know, every night I go on stage, every night that I go on stage, I feel it.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I feel those five minutes of, oh my God, it's Carlos.
Guest:And then the sixth minute of like, all right, fucker, be funny.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:We don't care anymore.
Guest:We don't care that we saw you on a movie or TV.
Guest:We don't care.
Guest:And you know what's funny?
Marc:A lot of them do care.
Marc:A lot of them, they love you.
Guest:They care in that respect, but they care about one thing only.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Just do the show.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you know what's funny?
Guest:Because I would try to address issues on stage, like about my personal shit with some of this stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the audience is looking at me like...
Guest:Why are you talking about that?
Marc:Right.
Guest:We don't care.
Guest:That's behind it.
Marc:Bring the funny.
Marc:And that was it.
Marc:Look at that poster right there.
Marc:That's 1995, dude.
Marc:That's 15 years ago.
Guest:We've come a long way, bro.
Marc:Thank you for spending this time with me.
Guest:Anytime, man.
Guest:Anytime.
Marc:It was fun.
Marc:It was a good time.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So there you have that.
Marc:Now I got to tell you at this juncture what happened.
Marc:What happened was after I sat with Carlos in the garage, I felt...
Marc:something felt wrong.
Marc:I felt that I somehow or another, I was being used in a way and it was, it was disconcerting to me.
Marc:So I had to do some more homework and I talked to Al Madrigal.
Marc:I talked to a few guys, you know, who, who didn't, people aren't chiming in, in, in the way that like, you know, fuck him or this or that.
Marc:But basically the, what I got from people was like, yeah, you should do a little more research here.
Marc:You know, this is a little bigger than you think it is.
Marc:You should talk to some of the Latino guys.
Marc:You should talk to people that know Carlos.
Marc:And I thought, you know what?
Marc:I should.
Marc:So I reached out to some people.
Marc:Because, like, look, honestly, there was something about that conversation that didn't sit well with me.
Marc:That, you know, at the core of Carlos's being, there's a sort of, you know, fuck you.
Marc:You know, fuck you.
Marc:I win.
Marc:There's something about that in there.
Marc:And then, you know, he sort of alluded to, you know, maybe taking jokes.
Marc:And then there's the whole issue of bumping people.
Marc:And, you know, this is...
Marc:that's the fucked up thing is like after i talked to him like holy shit he did that to me he bumped me once a few years back i was headlining at the improv my name was on the marquee and he came in and because he was who he was he said he don't mind if i do a few minutes and i had no choice so he went up and did about almost an hour and i left because that's fucked up
Marc:So a couple of things didn't sit well with me.
Marc:That personal issue and also the fact that I didn't really talk to the Latino guys.
Marc:I don't know them.
Marc:So I reached out to some.
Marc:I reached out to Willie Barsena, who's known Carlos for years.
Marc:And I reached out to Steve Trevino, who actually opened and worked for Carlos for several years.
Marc:And I just wanted to put it into context.
Marc:And then to be fair to Carlos, you know, after I got more information, I had to text him back.
Marc:I texted him.
Marc:I said, look, you know, I got to do some follow up.
Marc:We can do it on the phone.
Marc:And it was really one of those moments where I really hoped that the detachment of texting would work and I could just get him on the phone.
Marc:But within five minutes, he said, I'm coming over.
Marc:Let's do it.
Marc:I'm coming over.
Marc:So that's coming up.
Marc:We're going to hear from the Latino guys.
Marc:We're going to hear from people who knew Carlos.
Marc:We're going to get deeper into some of these accusations and also my own personal issue that I didn't bring up in the first interview.
Marc:That'll be on the next episode.
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