Episode 747 - Rachel Feinstein
Marc:Lock the gates!
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fucksters?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast.
Marc:WTF.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:Good morning.
Marc:Good afternoon.
Marc:Good evening.
Marc:Today on the show, we have Rachel Feinstein.
Marc:Feinstein.
Marc:Oh, which is it?
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:Shit.
Marc:Let me call her.
Marc:Hey, Rachel.
Marc:Is it Feinstein or Feinstein?
Marc:Feinstein.
Marc:I just wanted to double check.
Marc:Yeah, I figured I was going to say both in the intro, but then I decided why not say it right.
Marc:So it's Feinstein?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay, I'll talk to you later.
Marc:Bye.
Marc:Clarification.
Marc:Feinstein.
Marc:We got it.
Marc:I went right to the source on that.
Marc:And I kept you guys in the loop.
Marc:So what's happening?
Marc:Can we do a little...
Marc:A little business.
Marc:New WTF cap mugs are available from Brian Jones up in Portland.
Marc:These are the same mugs I give to my guests.
Marc:They go on sale at 12 noon Eastern, 9 a.m.
Marc:Pacific.
Marc:Go to BrianRJones.com to get yours.
Marc:Those are nice things, man.
Marc:That dude makes them himself.
Marc:on a little wheel or however they do it.
Marc:But he's an artisan, an artist, an artisan, a craftsman, whatever, man.
Marc:Those things go fast, so now you know.
Marc:Those of you who are listening and have not fast-forwarded, now you know.
Marc:Also, tour dates.
Marc:I won't go through all of them.
Marc:I'll go through the ones coming up quickly.
Marc:Campbell Hall at UCSB in Santa Barbara, October 21st.
Marc:There's that.
Marc:There's Largo here in Los Angeles on October 22nd.
Marc:The Ice House here in Pasadena October 23rd.
Marc:And then Carnegie Hall November 4th.
Marc:There are a few tickets left for that.
Marc:They are up in the balcony area.
Marc:But if you want to be part of that, get on board.
Marc:I'll be at the Vic Theater in Chicago December 3rd for two shows.
Marc:And Nashville, Tennessee, November 19th at the James K. Polk Theater.
Marc:So those are the most current ones.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for the other dates like in Tallahassee, Durham, Charlotte, Ridgefield, Connecticut, Portsmouth, New Hampshire, New Haven, Connecticut, Troy, New York, Burlington, Vermont.
Marc:They're all up there and they're coming up in the new year.
Marc:So I won't bog us down with that.
Marc:Let's get to the meat of it.
Marc:You know, I've been thinking a lot about things.
Marc:I've been thinking about this idea of,
Marc:You know, not only with the election, but with just life in general, this notion of trust your gut.
Marc:You got to trust your gut.
Marc:I don't know how old you are or what kind of life you've led.
Marc:But if you really make a couple of columns, if you just list.
Marc:The times where I trusted my gut and how that went versus the time where my gut had an impulse and I said, hold on, gut.
Marc:Let's let's think this through.
Marc:I wonder which would be pros and cons.
Marc:I wonder if the trusting your gut idea really holds up.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know why you would trust your gut unless it's.
Marc:immediate survival oriented or uh getting out of harm's way or uh you know an instinct that you have for your safety in a moment but in the big picture in the big overarching picture with a forethought and and the future in mind why the fuck trust your gut why not think it through a little bit i mean if you have the time to think it through and
Marc:You feel your gut and go like, all right, I get what you want, but I'm going to have to think about it.
Marc:I'm going to have to put it through the mental mill and see if that adds up.
Marc:And I know some people have trusted their gut and done amazing things and may have changed their lives.
Marc:But I guarantee you, if you had a life-changing thing or you did something and you said, I'm going to trust my gut on this, right after you trusted your gut, you broke it down a little bit.
Marc:I guess my point is, is that can you really trust your gut?
Marc:I can't really trust mine.
Marc:I can't trust my instincts.
Marc:I can't trust my first impulse, usually.
Marc:You know, if I'm on stage or something like that, but with life decisions or romantic decisions, most of the time, my dick, not unlike my gut, has gotten me into trouble.
Marc:So I'm just saying...
Marc:Have a conversation with your gut.
Marc:You know, don't trust it immediately.
Marc:Is that crazy?
Marc:If you think that's crazy, trust your gut on this.
Marc:What the fuck, man?
Marc:I've been processing things.
Marc:Something is happening to me.
Marc:I don't know if it's a midlife thing.
Marc:I think I've exhausted my ability to avoid myself.
Marc:And I know some of you listen to this thing that you think like, well, it doesn't sound like you're really avoiding yourself.
Marc:If anything, it sounds like you're overly analytical and self-aware and on top of all that shit.
Marc:But a lot of tricks you play on yourself to sort of avoid the feelings.
Marc:And my feelings keep bubbling up, man.
Marc:I'm choking up.
Marc:I'm choking back tears.
Marc:I'm on set.
Marc:shooting this show with all these women.
Marc:It's like me and 14 women on the cast of this thing, and they're doing things.
Marc:We're acting, and there are scenes where I'm not acting, and I'm watching them, and I'm starting to squirt out tears.
Marc:That's not in character.
Marc:Just because of the engagement, the theatrics of it, real acting, just things happening, like weird little things move me.
Marc:That means that I've got just a river of emotion that has not been addressed.
Marc:And somehow or another, I've been holding it back.
Marc:Right.
Marc:No matter how forthright I am or no matter how transparent I am, there's still stuff being there's like a like a secret well of undealt with shit that will start kind of just seeping through the cracks of your being and into your day to day life.
Marc:So.
Marc:It feels to me like whatever was holding that shit back is starting to erode or starting to break down.
Marc:And I don't think it's a bad thing.
Marc:I think a lot of things have happened in the last few years.
Marc:And I know that maybe some of you can relate to this where, you know, certain things are either better or they're worse, but they are.
Marc:They is.
Marc:It is where we're at.
Marc:There is no avoiding it.
Marc:And that moment where you're like, I can't avoid this shit anymore.
Marc:That's sort of a scary fucked up moment.
Marc:But I guess I just got to let this shit happen.
Marc:I got to let it come out.
Marc:I got to be okay with it.
Marc:I just feel like the full evolution into me not being able to bullshit myself is happening.
Marc:And I'm not thrilled with it because it feels like a regression, but I don't think it is.
Marc:I think it's actually growth.
Marc:Sometimes when you're regressing, maybe that's where you fucking left off and you got to start there.
Marc:Maybe it's not actually a regression.
Marc:It's actually your your your defense system breaking down and saying, hey, look, you know, sorry, but we had to protect you from yourself or at least help you avoid feelings.
Marc:It was not a great decision, but we've kept you in the dark for a long time.
Marc:And now we want to deliver you back to where you left off.
Marc:So enjoy 14 year old you and the emotions that that implies and that you have and try to get up to speed as quickly as possible so you can be a fully functioning adult.
Marc:I guess that's my argument.
Marc:Is it regression or is it just where you left off?
Marc:oh my god emails right right haven't done that in a while emails here's some military uh oriented emails subject line new jersey veterans love you dear mark i listen to your podcast as i commute to my job every morning in new jersey from the podcast i started watching your show marin and then turned my guy robert onto both the podcast
Marc:and the show.
Marc:Robert works with veterans here in New Jersey at this transitional residential facility.
Marc:There are vets who suffered from PTSD, homelessness, as well as drug and alcohol addiction.
Marc:Most of them were over in Afghanistan and have multiple challenges as they try and restart their lives.
Marc:Over Labor Day weekend, Robert set up the TV in the common room so the guys could watch the marathon.
Marc:On IFC, he brewed a big pot of coffee and watched as the guy slowly got into your show.
Marc:They were cheering and yelling at the TV.
Marc:There was laughing and hooting and hollering.
Marc:Many identified with you and your antics.
Marc:We wanted to let you know you made a difference that day for these guys.
Marc:They got a temporary reprieve from the demons and daily struggles.
Marc:Thanks for your thoughtful work and your podcast and TV show.
Marc:Warmly, Kathy and Robert.
Marc:Thanks for that email.
Marc:It was very nice.
Marc:I can never imagine.
Marc:I have no idea how or where people listen to my show, and it's always exciting to get emails.
Marc:Here's another one, kind of military-based.
Marc:Subject line, I figured I'd give it a shot.
Marc:What the hell?
Marc:Mark, hey, man, I know you're busy.
Marc:I'll cut to the chase.
Marc:You seem to be perpetually at war with yourself while somehow being incredibly self-aware.
Marc:Your transparency about this is admirable.
Marc:I am a 20-year-old paratrooper who is good at my job and all the machismo that comes with it.
Marc:However, I have daily and violent fights with an inner voice baiting me to self-sabotage, something I believe you can relate to.
Marc:How the fuck do you deal with going through an existential crisis?
Marc:If you can spare a quick word of advice, that'd be pretty cool since I'm a fan, but if you don't, I won't stop listening to WTF or anything.
Marc:Just figured this would be cool if it worked out for me.
Marc:SBC Falco Troy.
Marc:Hey, hey, Troy, I don't know what it looks like with your violent fights baiting you to self-sabotage.
Marc:But given your line of work, I wouldn't give into those because it seems like there's really only one option to sabotage yourself.
Marc:And that would seem to be very, very negative and extreme option.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I imagine I would think that that if you have the opportunity to jump out of a plane and not die on a daily basis, that would put things into perspective.
Marc:Given that, given the adrenaline of that, or maybe it's become a passive activity or a job that, you know, some of that would be would be relieved.
Marc:I know I've got I'm having a slight existential crisis to know that that a paratrooper doesn't get any sort of adrenal relief.
Marc:from existential crisis by jumping out of a plane just be careful will you be careful and uh wait it out you know it's a day-to-day thing but i have found over time if you live uh things ease get a little better and um and and you relax things become less important man just stay alive don't sabotage yourself as a paratrooper please could you thanks for listening
Marc:So Rachel Feinstein, very funny woman.
Marc:I'm glad she was here.
Marc:You know, I've known her a long time.
Marc:We finally got around to doing this because she's in New York.
Marc:You can check her website, rachel-feinstein.com for tour dates, her specials, and more stuff.
Marc:I also want to mention before I bring Rachel on that Shane Moss came over the other day to do a WTF episode, and he's a very interesting comedian who's evolved a great deal.
Marc:Uh, it'll be up in a couple of weeks, but he starts, he starts his 60 city tour today.
Marc:You can go to Shane Moss.com for dates.
Marc:He's doing this massive show, a themed show about hallucinogens and neuroscience.
Marc:I mean, this guy is challenging himself.
Marc:So check that out.
Marc:That's M a U S S Moss, Shane Moss.com for tour dates.
Marc:So now, uh, join me as I talk to the lovely Rachel Feinstein.
Marc:Damn it.
Marc:Now join me as I talk to the lovely Rachel Feinstein.
Guest:What's your brother do?
Guest:He works in advertising and does some... Not a show business guy?
Guest:No.
Marc:No?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He hates his job.
Marc:He has a real life?
Guest:Yeah, he has a real life.
Marc:And he has a family?
Guest:He has an honest, decent life.
Marc:An honest, decent life with the family and kids?
Guest:And then I come in there, this rancid road woman.
Marc:Yeah, this gypsy, freak...
Guest:It's just foul, really.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Bringing all that garbage from the streets of comedy into his home.
Guest:I do feel like I soil it with my nonsense.
Guest:I feel like my friends with kids, whenever they talk to me, they kind of change their voice.
Guest:Almost like you're talking to a child.
Marc:Another child.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Which they are, I guess.
Guest:It's fair.
Marc:Are you having fun and doing the thing?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that, and they, yeah, they talk to me in the same, because I noticed my, one of my best friends that I'm on the phone with all the time, she talks to her daughter a lot on the phone.
Marc:Right.
Guest:When I'm on the phone and I'm like, she uses the same daughter voice.
Guest:I have the, yeah, she uses the daughter voice for me.
Guest:She goes, so what's, what did you, how was the show?
Guest:Did you do a skit?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, it's the worst.
Guest:It's just like,
Marc:And it's hard not to take it as condescending a little bit.
Marc:Like they're trying to be nice, but it just feels like they don't acknowledge that what we do is a real thing or that it exists in the real world.
Guest:Yeah, I think she thinks it's like, yeah, she definitely, you know, there are moments that it excites them.
Marc:But for the most part, they think it's foolishness.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It excites them when they see you on television.
Marc:They're like, oh, she is doing something.
Marc:Look, she has a thing.
Marc:But leading up to that, you're just this freak who needs to grow up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right?
Guest:And I am.
Guest:And I think they're kind of correct.
Guest:That's why it's painful.
Guest:Like, they should use that voice with me.
Guest:Like, I look at... You know, I'm seeing my brother all week, and they're handling real things.
Guest:They're a family, for Christ's sake.
Guest:I'm coming here with my horse shit, you know?
Marc:Yeah, you're coming in like, hey, can I sleep in?
Marc:Is there...
Marc:You're not staying there, though.
Marc:Are you staying there?
Guest:No, I'm staying with them.
Marc:You are?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Because I want to hang out with my... With the kids.
Guest:Yeah, with the kids.
Marc:How old are they?
Guest:They're six and nine.
Marc:Oh, that's fun.
Marc:They're fun now.
Marc:They're full-form people.
Guest:My niece is funny as shit.
Guest:My brother was like... She's very sarcastic and hilarious.
Guest:My brother...
Guest:She was telling a joke to him or something.
Guest:She was telling jokes.
Guest:And he kind of gave her a fake laugh.
Guest:He was busy with something.
Guest:And she goes, you know, your fake laugh disgusts me.
Guest:Six.
Guest:She gets it.
Marc:Already on to the guy.
Marc:He's in trouble.
Guest:so no business way out here no generals no me no um i mean there's like an audition like later today but nothing but there's no general meetings it's just yeah what are you um you over it or no i mean the thing with general meetings is like i i don't understand i don't i feel like you're wasting their time and they don't know why they're talking to you and no that's all they do they don't do anything they
Guest:Oh, I guess that's the way they pretend.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:They just like, are there any clowns coming in today?
Marc:I'm bored.
Marc:Is there some comic whose hopes we can, you know, kind of get all excited and then just send them back out onto the street?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Bring that Rachel Feinstein here.
Guest:Yeah, we should clown around and just like a little jack in the box, do some tricks for me.
Marc:Yeah, and then we'll have lunch.
Marc:That sounds fun.
Guest:I've like, you know, I said recently, I was like, you know, because there was like, they're like, do you want us to pack things up with some meetings?
Guest:And I was like, really?
Guest:No, because I just don't understand what they do.
Guest:It seems silly, you know, like, and, and, you know, they were like, somebody was like, yeah, because I kind of came out a little hostile, you know, and I'm like, I didn't mean it that way.
Guest:It's just I don't understand.
Marc:I just I feel like it's foolishness.
Guest:yeah what's the point of these silly general meetings it's funny speaking of friends talking to friends and stuff and the way they see your lives I was leaving like a meeting like that and I was on the phone with her and she's like so what do you do you just go in there and she's right like all her questions were reasonable and then what happens is your sister-in-law
Guest:No, this was like my friend from high school.
Guest:And she's like, and then what happens?
Guest:And it's funny, though, because it's like they see you on TV and it seems really exciting.
Guest:But then sometimes they'll come out like like my friend that I grew up with came out to see me at the show.
Guest:And you ever have where they like realize like.
Guest:Oh, you're not important.
Guest:Like nobody respects you.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:They see me on TV and then they came to see me at this club.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was so embarrassing.
Guest:I hadn't seen this girl since like high school.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she, you know, I think she'd seen things I'd done on Facebook.
Guest:So she was like, Rachel's like, you know, she's accomplished some things in her life and people respect her.
Guest:I'm on stage and I was trying to like run the special and everybody was like ignoring me.
Guest:And this guy goes in the middle of my show just goes, you have a camel toe.
Guest:Like he said it loud.
Marc:Oh my God.
Guest:and then everybody in the audience was like staring at my crotch yeah and like and i didn't feel that i had a camel toe i feel like that wasn't and i looked down and i was like assessing it and i'm like no i don't i couldn't think of anything funny to say but just like that's kind of like very sort of specific and personal and yeah and i didn't have a camel toe and then this woman goes no it's the way the light hits her pants i thought this and they were just discussing it
Guest:While you're on stage?
Guest:While I was on stage, they broke up into like, yeah, they were kind of discussing and arguing over whether I had a camel toe or not.
Guest:And I could just see my friend in the audience just looking at me like.
Marc:This is your life?
Guest:Yeah, this is your life.
Marc:What did she do?
Marc:What's your friend do?
Guest:She like works for Walmart.
Guest:Like she does some sort of, I don't know, thing.
Marc:It's a very difficult period to, you know, to be, to do what we do and not have enough to show for our, like regular people do not see it as valid until everybody knows who you are.
Guest:You're right.
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:And now it's even harder because it's even more specific.
Marc:Even when you do a big thing, they're like, I don't get that channel.
Marc:Where is that?
Marc:I have a series on television.
Marc:Do I have that on our cable?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Back in the day, you had a TV show.
Marc:You got a fucking TV show.
Marc:Now it's like, I don't think we get it.
Marc:Do we get it?
Marc:Yeah, now my parents can't watch anything.
Marc:It's just too overwhelming.
Marc:Where did you grow up?
Guest:I grew up in Bethesda, Maryland.
Marc:Really?
Marc:By DC?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you ever do Chip Franklin's rooms?
No.
Guest:Yeah, that sounds familiar.
Guest:You know, I think my dad did something.
Guest:Does he like book other things besides?
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:He was a musician.
Guest:I think he might have done.
Marc:He was a comic.
Marc:He had a he actually there was I think the Ramada and Bethesda used to have a comedy club like, you know, and he would host the shows.
Marc:Maybe he booked other shit.
Guest:I think I did some, I know I did some, like, hotel in Bethesda years ago.
Guest:Like, I bombed some strange hotel in Bethesda.
Guest:I don't remember which one it was, though, but it might have been that.
Marc:It had to have been that gig.
Marc:It must have been, yeah.
Guest:It was in Bethesda.
Marc:You were, like, opening, like, for a headliner?
Guest:Yeah, I don't even remember who it was.
Marc:I just remember it was.
Marc:That must have been that room.
Marc:How long have you been doing it now?
Guest:Like, 17, 18 years.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Like, it's so weird, because I remember when you were.
Guest:I guess, actually, no, that's not true.
Guest:I guess, like, 17.
Marc:six 16 years i remember you when you were a child i know i started really young i knew you when you were a kid 20 years old yeah like i remember seeing you around is that right yeah in new york yeah you were like a contemporary of my exes right you and mishnah kind of started around the same time yes and you guys were doing boston yeah i can't i can't fucking believe you've been around that long
Guest:Yeah, I started, I just, I never went to college, so I just, I was just there in New York hanging out.
Marc:You're this loud Jewish girl yelling on stage in different voices.
Guest:Ugh, this is disgusting.
Marc:What do you mean?
Guest:I just look at old tapes of myself, you know, and even newer ones, and I'm just like, what did I ever need to say?
Guest:Like, just for the love of God, shut up.
Marc:Yeah, but you worked out all these good characters and things.
Marc:You've always been around.
Marc:I'm so happy you've been doing it so long.
Marc:And this is the first special you did?
Guest:You were always nice to me when I would go to the table.
Guest:I'd be terrified at the cellar.
Guest:They used to do this thing.
Guest:They would go, Rachel, come here.
Guest:And then I'd lean in.
Guest:It was right after I got off stage and I thought they were going to give me a compliment.
Guest:And you're opening up your body language to get your compliment.
Guest:They would just...
Marc:at the table they just call me over and i get in real close like yeah beat it yeah i thought like oh they're gonna tell me that i had a good you know like no of course no no it's just like testing you but i remember you would watch them you didn't really participate in much of that you were always very like kindly towards me you know i never understood the dumb games i i hate being a victim of that shit where they'd say your name and then pretend like they didn't say it yes that thing you know that they did what it was like patrice and norton colin was usually pretty nice but he didn't stop any of it from happening
Marc:I was nice to you because I thought that you, I think I was a little frightened of you and I thought you didn't like me.
Guest:You were frightened of me?
Guest:Yeah, because you were kind of... I was like a scared little, I was like a scared child.
Marc:I know, but you had a lot of swagger.
Guest:Really?
Marc:That's how I remember it.
Guest:I was a slovenly mess.
Guest:I remember I used to wear overalls every... Right, you were all sweaty kind of.
Guest:Always in overalls.
Marc:Like this like swarthy girl that used to come around kind of sweaty and disheveled.
Guest:Just jacked up.
Marc:Like looking kind of dirty-ish.
Guest:I remember I wore overalls every day.
Guest:And, you know, DC Benny, who's the sweetest guy in the world.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was so gentle with me, but he took me aside one time because I wore the same overalls.
Guest:And he was like, you know, you can you can always do something else.
Guest:You know, like he was like, you mix it up a little.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And he was so gentle with me.
Guest:That's what I still remember.
Guest:Because like.
Guest:You know, like all you guys just like were so intimidating to have the smallest exchange was magnified in my head.
Guest:You know, I think I thought maybe like I was hoping he was going to hit on me or something.
Guest:And he just gently told me that I should stop wearing these overalls.
Guest:And then somebody heckled me and screamed like.
Guest:Get off stage, Super Mario Brothers.
Guest:And that heckled traumatized me enough to get rid of the overalls when that guy called me Super Mario Brothers.
Marc:You get some good heckles.
Marc:Camel toes, Super Mario Brothers.
Marc:Like a woman, they're going to call you Super Mario Brothers because of your overalls?
Marc:Because of my overalls.
Guest:But it's kind of funny.
Marc:It sounds like some Mattel would say.
Marc:What are you?
Guest:That's funny that you were intimidated by me because I was so dirty.
Marc:Why do I think you dated Sherrod?
Guest:Sherrod and I were roommates for many years.
Marc:Oh, that's it.
Guest:But we never dated.
Guest:And in fact, it's funny.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, he brought over so many girls when we were living together and they had to walk through my room to get to the bathroom.
Marc:Ah, New York.
Guest:And it was so embarrassing.
Guest:I was having to have these like weird conversations with these just like insecure girls are like pulling their T-shirts down, you know?
Guest:And then I felt bad because Sherrod would bring me in like before they hooked up and we'd all have a beer together.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he'd be like, Rach, come in.
Guest:And I think he wanted me to be part of like the oiling process.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like...
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Make them comfortable.
Marc:Like, he's okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then they trusted him more because of me.
Guest:Like, oh, he's got this female roommate.
Guest:And I'm like, oh, no, you're making a terrible decision right now.
Guest:Yeah, he's an animal.
Guest:But him and Tone at the time, Tony Rock and Sherrod, it was like the three of us, we do all those bringer shows together.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they would bring over so many girls and they thought it was hilarious to just kind of terrorize me with how much ass they were getting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then they made a rule that I could never bring over any guys.
Guest:Even if I was in a relationship with the guy, they were just like, nah, no, dummy.
Guest:No?
Guest:They just thought it was funny.
Guest:Did you, though?
Guest:Once, but they terrorized him to a point that it wasn't worth it at all.
Guest:They just thought it was funny to just drive me crazy.
Guest:If I was dating anybody, they just found it hilarious.
Guest:Just the idea that me, I'd bring my dumb body out on a date was funny to them.
Yeah.
Marc:You definitely paid your dues then.
Marc:Living with Sherrod for years.
Guest:Yeah, we actually moved together.
Marc:Again.
Guest:We lived in one place and then we moved to another.
Marc:I like him.
Guest:Yeah, he's a really fun guy.
Guest:It's like all those years of my life that most people are in college or whatever.
Guest:It was just me, Sherrod, and Tony.
Guest:So they're like my family.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And when Sherrod would be fucking a girl in his room, often he would have one of his brothers sleep in my room because they would be staying with him.
Guest:But they'd have to clean out when he was going to bang some girls.
Guest:So you'd have to just sleep with... I'd often sleep next to his youngest brother.
Guest:We called him Dewey.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Kenny.
Guest:And so he would just be in the bed next to me.
Guest:You know, this 19-year-old kid.
Guest:We'd just like fall asleep next to each other and chat.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:What the...
Marc:What's wrong with this?
Guest:The place was so crazy.
Guest:We used to just refer to it as squalor.
Guest:We'd be like, I'll meet you back at squalor because the shower was in the kitchen.
Guest:It was just an unacceptable.
Marc:One of those like weird forefews with the shower and like with the tub that was hidden.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Or was it all right there?
Guest:Did it have like a. No, there was no tub.
Guest:There was only a shower next to the sink and there was no tub.
Guest:No.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:That's like a real flat.
Marc:You know, I got one of those like weird tenement buildings.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Where was that?
Guest:That was on 75th Street between 1st and 2nd.
Marc:It's amazing what we used to put up with in New York for a living situation.
Marc:It's crazy.
Guest:I thought that was cool.
Guest:I was telling everybody, I'm living in Manhattan.
Guest:Get off my dick.
Guest:Meanwhile, I was living in squalor.
Marc:I was.
Marc:No, they're the worst.
Guest:It's unacceptable.
Marc:And you're paying like, what, $1,500, $2,000?
Guest:At that time, I think we were paying something weirdly cheap.
Guest:We got like a rent stable.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:We had no money.
Guest:I was a nanny during the day, and I was nannying.
Marc:You nannied?
Guest:For many years.
Guest:Yeah, that's what I did.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:How many people did you nanny for?
Marc:Was that like an everyday thing?
Guest:Yeah, I would do it five days a week for one family stand up at night.
Guest:Mm hmm.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you're like part of their family.
Guest:So I was part of their family.
Guest:And I was really attached to these kids, you know, also because like I hadn't I wasn't able to keep a job before that.
Guest:So that was like the first job that I could keep for long periods of time because I really love kids.
Marc:How do you become a nanny though?
Marc:Do you have to fill out paperwork?
Guest:Is there a test?
Guest:There was a service that I found and I went and I, yeah, I'd done some babysitting in high school and I used to do this like after school program in DC to make extra money when I was a teenager.
Guest:So I used like a reference for that and I just started taking care of kids there because I like kids a lot.
Marc:Right after high school you started taking care of kids?
Yeah.
Guest:uh well first first when i moved to new york i moved when i was 17 really your parents just let you do that yeah they were like sounds terrific get out yeah get out they are like aggressively liberal to a point that was like a little baffling you know like i moved to new york with this guy in his band called dick sister and dick sister i moved with dick sister yeah
Marc:But wait, your dad, you said, was a musician?
Marc:Not a magician.
Marc:A musician?
Guest:Yeah, he is a blues musician.
Marc:What's he play?
Guest:He plays piano and zydeco accordion.
Marc:Really?
Marc:In a band?
Guest:He goes by the name Hurricane Howie.
Guest:Hurricane Howie but he plays in a variety of bands like around DC and stuff.
Guest:He's amazing.
Guest:He's he plays all by ear, you know piano and Accordion harmonica and he's a Jewish blues guy.
Guest:Yeah, he was a civil rights lawyer for many years before I was born He was like prosecuting KKK cases and stuff like that in the south and really yeah, and now he teaches civil rights and he plays blues Yeah
Marc:Like he's classic Jewish liberal activist dude.
Guest:Yes, totally.
Marc:How old is that guy?
Guest:I think my dad's like, I want to say, wait, let me think about this.
Guest:I think he's like 67 now.
Marc:So was he part of the original civil rights movement stuff?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Was he going down there for Freedom Summer down south and marching and things?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I know this, that he went...
Guest:He worked out of the Department of Justice and he prosecuted hate crimes.
Guest:And so he prosecuted Klan murders, reinforced Brown versus Board of Education laws.
Guest:He basically, and he prosecuted police officers for cross burnings and murders in the South.
Guest:And so he would often go down, you know, it was this Jewish guy, Howie and his black partner, and they would go to these towns and...
Guest:And they hated them there.
Guest:And they would go and sit in these restaurants that are supposed to be there.
Guest:Say they're integrated, but they weren't really.
Guest:And so they would go sit and just piss everybody off.
Guest:And then they would often stay under like fake names and stuff because, you know, there were death threats against them for sure.
Guest:And then.
Guest:They would go into these schools like the schools that weren't really enforcing Brown versus Board of Education.
Guest:My dad would say that sometimes they would give them like a child's chair to sit on in the hallway, just like humiliate them in these variety of ways because they would come there and they're, you know, coming.
Guest:They work for the government.
Guest:And so they asked to see certain documents and things and they go, sure, we got your papers for you.
Guest:And then they go, here you go.
Guest:And then they bring out some chair meant for like a kindergartner.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Slapping on his lap.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So he did that for years.
Guest:He did that for years.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then he retired and now he's just a blues guy and a teacher.
Guest:No.
Guest:Then he got like, I think around the time I was in seventh grade or so, he ended up, you know, they weren't prosecuting as many KKK cases.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And all the hate crimes.
Marc:So he was a KKK specialist.
Guest:He didn't just specialize in KKK, but hate crimes in general.
Guest:But they weren't.
Guest:They weren't prosecuting.
Guest:They just weren't taking on as many civil rights cases at the time.
Guest:And so and Department of Justice was like inhibited in a variety of ways.
Guest:Also, it wasn't as bad as it used to be.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so he ended up getting and then he had three kids living in Bethesda.
Guest:And so he ended up getting this job at kind of like a private practice firm.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he hated it.
Guest:And I remember being really nervous.
Guest:I was like, Dad can't do that.
Guest:Like, Dad's weird.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because he was strange.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, he is like a.
Marc:Like a hippie Jew.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He had like weird kicks.
Guest:He often like flicks his own head.
Guest:He does a lot, you know.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:He's a bizarre.
Marc:He's a head flicker?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:He's a head flicker.
Guest:He's just a bizarre but brilliant guy, but not anybody that could do small talk or schmooze people or anything like that, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My dad, like, I think he moved to Bethesda because he told me because he liked their used book and record stores.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:So he just, you know, he didn't, he just would, he's one of those guys he would say he had a bizarre sense of humor.
Guest:He was very, you know, he's very odd.
Guest:And I just was like, he can't, dad can't schmooze people.
Marc:That's insane.
Marc:He can't be in the organized world.
Marc:No, it's preposterous.
Marc:Corporate world.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He wears like an undersized like Howlin' Wolf t-shirt with a stain on it every day.
Marc:I love this guy.
Guest:With his belly coming out.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:so um and he and he got laid off he didn't and he hated it and so um you know and then he was that was hard because my mom was a social worker full-time for and then there's three kids so your mom was a social worker yeah is she still she still is yeah
Marc:These are no, this is noble breeding.
Marc:You come from good, progressive, caring people.
Guest:They really are.
Marc:Who want to change the world.
Guest:They're really, really kind.
Guest:And they do.
Guest:And not, and not just when they're working, when they're not working at these amazing, insane jobs.
Guest:My dad, he, he has this, he has like a foundation that helps women get out of situations with where they're trying to leave domestic violence or a violent home situations.
Guest:And they volunteer on like,
Guest:But yeah, they're just constantly doing something.
Guest:Social workers.
Guest:Every liberal presidential campaign.
Guest:Yeah, they're just always... Anything they say, they're actively doing.
Marc:They're people that do the real work that really helps people in a way.
Marc:Like on a day-to-day basis, in their way, they are servicing the people that are in trouble all the time.
Marc:And it's like...
Marc:In my mind, there's a lot of people that do that, but you never hear about them because they're too fucking busy.
Marc:There's a lot of people that talk about what should be done and what needs to be done.
Marc:But there are people like your parents that are like going to work every day and dealing with that insanity.
Guest:And actually dealing with it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, and it's funny.
Guest:It's like, yeah, the rest of us were rambling on about our opinions and this should be like so and that should be like so.
Guest:But yeah, no, they actually do it.
Guest:And my dad, even my dad wrote a book about his days prosecuting, you know?
Yeah.
Guest:And even when he did his book, he had all the proceeds go to some charities of victims of this kind of stuff.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Even that, I was like, oh, dad, just keep half.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:He's on his book tour, but it's just like, they're like that.
Guest:They're the kind of people, if they get extra change back at a payphone, they're like, oh, that's not mine.
Guest:I'll leave it right there where it is.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Almost to a point where it's like heartbreaking, you know?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I just want to be able to do, you know, make sure.
Marc:I want to be able to help them.
Marc:What did your dad grow up in?
Marc:Did you know your grandparents?
Marc:Were they like, you know, like his parents?
Marc:Were they like New Yorkers?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:How did you know that?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because there seems to be some sort of chain of history, like those people that kind of made something of themselves.
Marc:I'm assuming this is a Jewish story in my mind.
Guest:Yeah, so far your Jewish story is absolutely correct.
Marc:That they struggled, they did all right, they put their kid through college, and then he became a decent guy and didn't go the other way, where he just made a bunch of money.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I think I think his parents, I think he wanted to be a musician and he wanted to play blues.
Guest:And his parents said, you'll be a doctor, you'll be a lawyer.
Guest:And so he was like, OK, well, then I'll do civil rights law because it's something I believe in.
Guest:And then he found himself in this kind of soul sucking job after civil rights.
Guest:And then he was very depressed.
Marc:And so then how does he make a living now?
Guest:Now he plays blues again.
Guest:Now he does that full time now.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So did you grow up in a house full of records?
Guest:yes like every room yes so many records i mean we would go to this record store that was my dad and i that was how we spent our sundays yeah long lectures about the importance of one record over another i would be like seven i really didn't understand what he was referring to but yeah god i love this guy this is why this is a decent record look at this right here yeah like some record store there was always like a cat like walking around in it my dad was like trying to explain to me why this record was so much more important and why i needed to respect it you know and i was just like can we get ice cream yeah none of
Marc:That sunk in, huh?
Guest:No, now it does.
Guest:Now it does much more.
Guest:And he got me into all that music and stuff too.
Guest:So now I think when I was a kid, he was weird and he had a weird sense of humor.
Guest:And sometimes it would embarrass me.
Guest:And now I realize it completely informed my sense of humor.
Guest:But he was just so bizarre.
Guest:He had this band called The Vomitones.
Guest:He thought it was hilarious to just call his band The Vomitones.
Guest:And he knew it would embarrass us.
Guest:I think he also got joy out of that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so the vomit tones, um, they would play what they referred to as a tour, which just consisted of like two gigs in Michigan.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my dad called it the hands across Uranus tour.
Guest:So he would wear this hands across Uranus, the vomit tones, like, you know, breakout tour.
Guest:And then he'd come to pick me up in school and I was like, God, dad's going to be wearing the vomit on my shirt.
Guest:You know, and now I'm like, that's hysterical.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But at the time, I'm like, Jesus, dad, you know?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:He would howl.
Guest:They would practice in my basement.
Guest:My dad was always howling.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He just liked to howl.
Guest:And then some of them would moon after their performances.
Guest:My dad said he didn't moon as much as the others because he said because his ass got too sweaty to get up from the piano.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And your mom just put up with all this?
Guest:Yeah, I think she was she was definitely like my dad drove her crazy.
Marc:And they're together.
Guest:They're still together, though.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's a great story.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, they have, you know, they have their moments, but they're but they're very I think they like they see the world the same way.
Guest:And so they and they admire each other.
Guest:And I think that's definitely kept their marriage together.
Marc:So you have a sister, too?
Guest:No, just two brothers.
Marc:Two brothers.
Marc:One's out here.
Guest:One's out here.
Marc:Where's the other one?
Guest:He's in Maryland.
Marc:What's he do?
Guest:He's he's a social worker like my mom.
Guest:He's a therapist and he works in a school in in D.C.
Guest:He went to the Peace Corps.
Guest:He's like my mom's my parents kid.
Guest:You know, he's like went to the Peace Corps for years, learned to speak Spanish.
Guest:And fluently.
Guest:So now he does work with kids in this school in D.C.
Guest:A lot of the kids coming through, you know, immigrated here illegally or something like that.
Guest:So they're dealing with the repercussions of going through various trauma.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:So my brother works with those kids and he's a doll.
Guest:He's just like the loveliest person.
Guest:You know, they're both like that.
Guest:My brothers are like ridiculously just like kind, good men.
Marc:And you're just this sweaty girl wearing overalls.
Guest:And I'm just this animal.
Marc:Trying to do stand-up comedy.
Guest:Just flailing around, doing these disgusting things, playing at these disgusting places, using foul words.
Marc:Well, what does your old man think about your comedy?
Guest:You know, my dad loves it.
Guest:He's so supportive.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was the one who like when I moved to New York with Dick's sister and I was like, what the fuck was Dick's sister?
Guest:Just this, just this band.
Marc:What happened to that guy?
Guest:He dumped me pretty soon after we moved to New York and it was really embarrassing because I'd like said, told everybody I'm going to New York.
Guest:And I made like a big thing out of it.
Marc:I was very proud.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, I'm going to be a comedian in New York and I'm going to move there with Dick's sister who I was so in love with.
Guest:And then he dumped me pretty soon after we got there.
Guest:And it was kind of awkward because my dad like came back and had to sort of like repack me, you know, like take me back home.
Guest:And then he sort of undumped me and I didn't have any self-esteem at the time.
Guest:So I was like, okay, I'm not dumped again.
Guest:I'll come back.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:It's really sad.
Guest:It's dark.
Guest:I was young.
Guest:Yeah, you know, whatever.
Guest:And then so we lived together.
Guest:I don't know if he redumped me or how I left.
Guest:I don't remember exactly.
Marc:I like undumping and redumping.
Marc:I've never heard it framed like that.
Marc:I think he redumped me.
Marc:I'm undumped and then you're redumped.
Guest:Yeah, because I can't see me dumping him again because he was all I had there.
Guest:I'm pretty sure he redumped me.
Guest:And then...
Guest:I met this woman on the train on the Greyhound bus, actually.
Guest:And I was going back and forth to Maryland on the weekends, you know, because I was working a little bit in Maryland on the weekends and I miss my friends.
Guest:And so she she was this big, sweet Bengali lady.
Guest:And she, like, shared her bagel with me.
Guest:I was weeping about Dick's sister and I was really upset.
Guest:And she's like, you could live with me.
Guest:So I moved in with this Bengali family in Queens and I live with them.
Marc:How was that?
Marc:You live with Sherrod.
Marc:You live with some Bengalis.
Marc:You're doing the same work as your parents in some weird way.
Marc:Oh, my mom loved it.
Marc:Just bringing people together.
Guest:As long as somebody's like dark, my mom has no questions whatsoever.
Guest:If they're beige or darker, she's like, anything you do with them is fantastic.
Marc:You're bringing people together.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, Dick's sister was five years older than me.
Guest:I don't know if that's statutory rape or not, but my mom is not a question in the world.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Was he dark?
Marc:Dick's sister?
Guest:Yeah, I think he was half black or something.
Guest:I can't remember what his ethnic cocktail was.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then and then the Bengalis.
Guest:My mom loved that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I'm so weird with anything around Indian food.
Marc:I'm like, that must be great just to have that food and the food was awesome.
Guest:And actually, that's kind of like how she sold living there to me.
Guest:Like when we were on the bus, I remember she was describing our life.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:She was worried.
Guest:You know, she felt sad for me because I was this girl weeping over some guy, you know, and my dirty overalls.
Guest:And she was like.
Guest:She was like, you come to live with me.
Guest:And she kept saying, like, we'll take a certain kind of bread.
Guest:I remember what it was called, but she was like, we'll take bread and we'll take rice.
Guest:And just she's called it taking.
Guest:And it seems so pleasing.
Guest:And she said, in the mornings, we'll take marmalade.
Guest:And I'm like, yes, that's all I want.
Guest:I just want to take marmalade.
Guest:That sounds like that was it.
Guest:I was like, I'm done.
Guest:I'll hurl my body.
Marc:That was where in a story or somewhere.
Guest:That was in Woodhaven, Queens, like way out, way, way, way out in Queens.
Guest:And we had lovely mornings.
Guest:I was just part of their family, and I would go to their weddings and parties, and I'd wear saris.
Guest:For how long?
Guest:For a few years.
Guest:Yeah, a few years.
Marc:When you were like 18?
Marc:19 I think at that point maybe no maybe 18 yeah I must have been 18 yeah all right so you leave your uh your lefty Jewish parents to go to New York with with dick sister dick sister that goes back and forth you meet a Bengali woman on the on the bus and you just move in with them and you become part of their family yeah you go to weddings you eat naan bread and whatever yes that's what they have and uh when when do you start doing comedy
Guest:Uh, then I, I think I was still living with the Bengalis.
Guest:No, no, no, I wasn't living with them.
Guest:I was watching.
Marc:What were you doing?
Guest:I was, um, I got fired from a couple of jobs.
Guest:I, I worked at, uh.
Marc:So you had no real plan other than to like, this is a good family.
Guest:I wanted to be in their family, I think.
Guest:And I wanted to do.
Marc:That was your job.
Marc:I wanted to love.
Marc:I wanted to be Bengali and feel this love of these people.
Guest:Honestly, I think I was so lost and depressed.
Guest:I was just glad that I found somebody there to keep me company.
Guest:And it was isolating because I had no... When I broke up with the dick sister guy, I fell in love with this... Or not fell in love.
Guest:Not a proper use of that term.
Guest:But I had this big crush on the pizza guy on the corner at Woodhaven.
Guest:And in Woodhaven where I lived.
Marc:The slice guy?
Guest:The slice guy.
Guest:And I thought he was so hot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I would just go sit in there.
Marc:Where was he from?
Guest:For like, I don't know.
Guest:He was like Italian-American.
Marc:Italian guy?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I would just go sit in there for like, when I think about this now, I must have terrified him for like a haunting period of time just because I wanted to be near him because I thought he was hot, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I would just go sit in there and like eat a lot of pizza.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And just look at him kind of.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think I thought I was being kind of demure, like pretending to just be innocent.
Marc:He must have known for hours every day, like once or twice a time.
Guest:Definitely an unstable amount of time I spent in there.
Guest:And I remember getting ready for him, like, you know, just like thinking about him at night and what I was going to wear the next day, just hoping he was going to hit on me.
Guest:She never did.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, and everybody in the family, you know, the Bengalis all knew about my, like, non-relationship.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:With the pizza guy.
Guest:Yeah, and I would just go in there and sit.
Guest:Because also, it's like, besides my Bengali family, I didn't have any friends my age or anything, and I was just really lonely.
Guest:So I would go and sit in all these... I spent a lot of time just sitting in restaurants.
Guest:Did you do that?
Guest:Like, just wanting to talk to people and stuff?
Marc:Yeah, well, I have a similar disposition.
Marc:I don't know what it is...
Marc:where you want to feel connected or received, where you sort of feel, I felt that way for a long time.
Marc:I didn't have a whole personality and that I'd have to go wait to engage with somebody to kind of figure out
Marc:where I fit in and who I was.
Marc:And I used to spend a lot of time doing that in restaurants.
Marc:I don't know if that's what your trip was.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So you would talk to people.
Marc:All the time.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It's a loneliness, but it was almost like, I don't know what I was looking for, but when I look back on it, I don't think I really knew who I was.
Guest:How old were you at this time?
Marc:Well, that was through high school and, you know, maybe my early.
Marc:But I mean, I started doing comedy when I was 20, 20.
Marc:By the time I started drinking and got to college, I developed an aggressive demeanor.
Marc:But I think deep down, like when I was in high school, I used to just sit around the college restaurant where I worked, just talk to crazy people because I was like, they know something.
Marc:They got it figured out.
Marc:I always thought other people had it figured out.
Guest:I know what you mean.
Guest:That's how I felt, too.
Guest:Like they're real.
Guest:And then I have to figure out how I'm supposed to do things.
Guest:I've never had that many opinions.
Guest:I always just started figuring out what my opinions were supposed to be based on, you know, in terms of like not like political or worldview, but just in terms of like how to live.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:I like I felt like I didn't I didn't know.
Marc:Like I went to college, though.
Marc:But then you just sort of like you're afforded four years to not know how to live in a context where you're supposed to be learning, you know.
Marc:I was thinking about that yesterday.
Marc:I was just standing at my sink washing a cat bowl, and I'm like, wow, I have my own house.
Marc:How the fuck did that happen?
Marc:I wasn't designed to know how to do this.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:It's funny, though.
Guest:I know exactly what you mean.
Guest:I always say that.
Guest:I always feel like I'm just not... Like we don't have a real life.
Guest:No, I'm like, I'm not a woman.
Guest:How am I able to use that term?
Guest:I don't...
Marc:It's weird, right?
Marc:I guess other people like your sister, I mean, your brother, you walk into a life, I'm like, this is how life is supposed to look.
Marc:I never planned on that shit.
Marc:Like big house, family, I never even thought about it.
Guest:I remember I dated this guy and I would like hang out with his family in the kitchen.
Guest:And I remember I'd be like, can I help?
Guest:I feel like they kind of sniff that out on you.
Guest:And I remember they would give me things to do in the kitchen whenever I'd ask his sister who was like a real adult.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If I could help her.
Guest:She would give me the same things that you would give like a kid that was playing pretend in the kitchen.
Guest:She'd be like, yeah, you could stir this.
Guest:But then she would give the other ladies like real things to do that they would actually be helping.
Marc:Yeah, they'd be chopping.
Guest:I would just be like fake stirring nearby.
Guest:She'd be like, what?
Guest:I want to go ahead and stir this some more.
Marc:The simple girls here.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:The lost girl wants to feel useful.
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:Is that so wild?
Marc:Because I definitely felt that.
Marc:But it seemed like you had support and decent parents.
Marc:Were they so self-involved that you felt detached from it?
Marc:It seemed like you would have learned how to be a good person.
Guest:I've always loved kids, and I think they definitely taught me how to be kind and trustworthy and all those good qualities.
Marc:You just didn't know what you wanted to do.
Guest:I just didn't.
Guest:Well, also, I had failed so wildly in school.
Guest:Like a lot of comedians, I'm sure it's not an original tale, but I got Ds and Fs and never took my SATs.
Guest:And so I was just so insecure about not knowing if I would be able to live.
Guest:Like you said, you're surprised.
Guest:Yeah, function.
Marc:You just charm your way through school somehow and you flunk the important classes.
Guest:Barely.
Guest:Yeah, graduate.
Guest:I didn't even take my SATs.
Marc:I didn't take SATs.
Marc:I took ACTs.
Marc:I don't even know if they're real.
Guest:What is ACT?
Marc:What is that?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I grew up in New Mexico and you could take these ACTs.
Marc:I never took SATs.
Marc:But there was another one.
Marc:There's like the second one, the B-level college entry.
Marc:I believe they were called ACTs, but no one ever knows what they are because everyone took a guess.
Marc:I had no idea.
Marc:I just knew I wanted to be smart and I wanted to know things, but I never had a plan of what I wanted to do for years.
Marc:And I just walked into like comedy.
Marc:That seems to cover everything.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But like, I didn't have a plan.
Guest:But you seem like you had information early on.
Guest:Like, I feel like you, you know, my dad has one of those information guys.
Guest:Like he knows everything.
Marc:I feel like you were like that, right?
Marc:I wanted to be your dad.
Marc:I wanted to be like that guy.
Marc:I just wanted to have a lot of records and be smart and, you know, know about music and be intellectual somehow.
Guest:Well, you gave off that vibe.
Guest:That's what you struck me as one of the, so I think you did.
Marc:That's all I wanted to do that.
Guest:You definitely succeeded in it now, but I think even then you did.
Marc:Well, yeah, I was in pursuit of some knowledge, but it never had anything to do with making a living.
Yeah.
Marc:Like that part was like way, it never even came into play.
Marc:Like I'm going to be, I'm going to figure it out.
Marc:I'm going to write some poetry.
Marc:I'm going to write plays.
Marc:I'm going to do the standup thing.
Marc:It never, there was never a sort of like, how do I get, you know, make a money to live?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it was terrifying.
Guest:I mean, I felt like that so much because my fear was like, well, if I don't make money to live and I can't figure this out because I was getting repeatedly fired and stuff, I was like, I can't... Nobody's going to help me.
Guest:My parents have no money and I don't want to be any strain on them ever.
Guest:Like, now I just want to be able to help them somehow.
Guest:So it was scary because I just...
Guest:I was just afraid I was going to not be able to pull anything off.
Guest:And then still to this day, I think I was so insecure at school.
Guest:I don't know how you feel about it, but when I walk into a school even now, I smell a school, I just feel sad.
Guest:It was just this place I went and felt like I wasn't smart for so long.
Marc:I just felt like I wasn't... I was funny enough to move through... I had friends, or I desperately wanted to be around people, so I sort of wedged my...
Marc:my way into groups of people and be a funny guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But, um, but I, I don't know that I felt dumb.
Marc:I just felt like a little detached from it.
Guest:Like I don't, like you were watching it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Kind of.
Marc:Like, I don't remember, like I was thinking about that recently.
Marc:I don't remember doing any homework ever.
Marc:I don't remember doing it.
Marc:I didn't, I got D's like in algebra, chemistry.
Marc:I got, I, I failed ish.
Marc:They gave me an E, which wasn't even a real grade.
Guest:We got E's too.
Marc:You got E's too?
Guest:It's a silly thing to look at an E.
Marc:But even in English, I was just like half asleep all the time.
Marc:High school was just this completely exhausting, uncomfortable time for me.
Marc:But the thing was, my parents never, like I could not, they never helped me do homework.
Marc:I literally don't remember doing any homework.
Guest:I don't think I did much either.
Guest:I remember everybody always being upset with me.
Guest:Just like, Rachel, for the love of God.
Guest:And I felt like I was sort of terrorizing my family with my flailing nonsense.
Guest:But I don't think there was much structure.
Guest:And I think kids really need that.
Guest:That's what it is.
Guest:When I was a nanny, I started working with this...
Guest:autistic child that I felt really fell in love with for, and for years, I think because, um, and I, I felt, so I sort of developed like a very structured system for him to try to learn to write, you know?
Guest:And, uh, and I think it was because, and why I felt like that was the first job I got and did well at was because I just, I probably projected a lot of myself onto him, but like I would get, you know, he had trouble if I would give him like a piece of paper and say, okay, go throw that away.
Guest:And he would stop between where he was standing and the trash can, and he would just move his head back and forth.
Guest:And I related to that feeling.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Like, I get it.
Guest:Like, I get not being able to make it to that trash can, you know?
Guest:And he was just stuck in the middle of the room.
Guest:So I was like, you're going to make it to that trash can and back and then say what you wanted to say afterwards, you know?
Marc:And did he?
Guest:He did.
Guest:I mean, it was...
Guest:I mean, I worked with him for many years, but we just started doing this thing where it's like, okay, I press A on the keyboard, you press A on the keyboard.
Guest:I press B, you press B. And I just didn't want to give up on him because I felt maybe, again, I probably projected a lot of myself on him.
Marc:But it gave you structure as well.
Guest:But it gave me structure for sure.
Guest:It's like I learned so much in that job because I learned how to be an adult and how to...
Guest:feel productive and it's funny because it's like i was organizing his life but then i you know had really bad edd and all that so i would leave things all over the house whenever i go there i just sort of shed things you know just debit cards things throughout the city and i remember the mother had this like delicate little pile for me on the cat like right on near the couch pile this is your pile of the things you left
Guest:So, you know, just pieces of debris that I left around the house.
Guest:So it's so funny that I'm like structuring her son.
Guest:And then we would do things like just practice riding the bus across town and back and take in and then also expressing himself because he he just seemed like he had fascinating thoughts.
Guest:I could tell by the way, you know, his expressions and the things that he was trying to say, but he felt really stuck.
Guest:So we just kept practicing and practicing.
Guest:And then he started writing in sentences.
Guest:I mean, it was so fascinating to start hearing what he was really thinking.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Well, I think that's it.
Marc:I think that sort of pegs it.
Marc:Because it sounds like your parents were so supportive in that specific way, which is progressive, that they were almost too permissive.
Marc:So like you didn't have any real boundaries or discipline around things.
Marc:You're kind of left to your own devices because they had faith in you.
Marc:And then you just end up like it's not that you're dumb.
Marc:You just sort of like you end up kind of stuck in a kind of like if you don't have a focus for yourself, you're just going to be like, I never really figured it out.
Guest:Yeah, I felt very unequipped to be, yeah.
Guest:And I think that, and my mom would say that too.
Guest:She's like, we realize now, like we didn't give you any structure.
Guest:Like we didn't, because especially with kids that have problems focusing and paying attention, you needed to feel calm inside.
Guest:So I would go to school and I always had my hair dripping down my back.
Guest:And so I remember that.
Guest:I'm like, what, how did that happen?
Guest:Like my hair was always dripping down.
Marc:down my back i think i was overwhelmed leaving getting to school overwhelmed in my mind you know stuck it was just that same thing with that boy like stuck between the the thing and the trash can you know you have no sort of like you're not you don't have any structure or any real way to to sort of um contain yourself everything's fucking exhausting yeah you're just sort of like there's it's all happening everything's happening at once you can't compartmentalize
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I want to be able to do that and learn how to kind of make decisions.
Guest:And you did that with the kids.
Guest:And then I think through this relationship with him, it really helped me to learn how to kind of do that for myself and feel like I was purposeful and taking care of something, too.
Guest:I remember we watched this movie about Helen Keller, and there's this scene in it where...
Marc:Was it the old movie?
Guest:Yeah, I can't remember what it's called now.
Marc:Oh, it's a famous movie.
Guest:It's a famous, famous, famous film.
Marc:I can't remember the name.
Marc:Oh, it was a play, too.
Marc:God damn it.
Guest:Yeah, and her teacher, she- Miracle Worker.
Marc:Miracle Worker, yes.
Guest:And it's a fascinating film.
Guest:And there's a scene in the movie where she's trying to get her to sit down and eat her food, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:and sit at the table and just be a part of everybody and do it.
Guest:And she's flinging everything everywhere and slamming it all over the place.
Guest:And every time the child slams the food off the table, she slams it back.
Guest:And it's this very kind of like...
Guest:aggressive scene but she's not gonna give up on her she's like no no no you know every time she does something destructive or insane or just says you know that way that a lot of us feel growing up like yeah fuck you anyway i don't give a shit which is how i was at school but i did care and i wanted to you know be involved and create things i just didn't know how so these are you know sarcastic and and so and she is sort of like explosions at the table and they keep fighting back and forth and i remember i was sitting with him
Guest:The child I was taking care of and he was typing and he typed out and he said, it's funny because it's this violent scene, but there's no violence in it, only love.
Guest:And it was just like such a remarkable thing.
Guest:And I still think about like, and that was as he was really learning to talk, you know, he'd been written off so much, but he was brilliant kid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And he was right.
Guest:It's like the scene looks very violent.
Guest:Lots of flailing around and madness and food flying everywhere.
Guest:But she's really just saying to her, like, no, we're going to make a structured system for you so that you can be yourself.
Guest:It was really cool because I still remember how he was like, it was just such insight.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And you had to put that all together yourself.
Marc:So you're putting that together for you and the kid from this old movie.
Yeah.
Marc:You know, a very famous case of detachment and transcending, you know, physical liabilities and handicaps.
Marc:That's wild because, like, I never really thought about it before that, you know, you have perfectly loving parents, but because of the way they saw the world, they gave you freedom, which kind of fucked you a little bit.
Guest:Yeah, a little too much freedom.
Guest:And, I mean, I feel like where I land is all because of, a lot of it's because of them.
Guest:But I definitely, certainly feel like they could, you know, that's the thing that I didn't get.
Guest:But, I mean, I got the most important things.
Guest:Because, like, I remember when I wanted to.
Guest:Yeah, and when I wanted to, when I thought about trying stand-up, but I felt, you know, scared.
Guest:And I was like, maybe I thought, like, maybe I'm going to move back to D.C.
Guest:and just be near my friends.
Guest:Because I feel kind of lost here.
Guest:And I told my dad, I still remember being on the phone with him and saying, like,
Guest:I think I'm going to go back home and go to community college and just sort of like start over again and be near my friends.
Guest:And he said, and I'll never forget the conversation because he said, don't do that.
Guest:Like, you're going to die inside.
Guest:You said you wanted to be a comedian.
Guest:Stay in New York and do that.
Guest:Don't come home and live some sort of gelatinous existence for a few years.
Guest:How would that help you get to where you want to go?
Guest:And I think that was probably really hard for him to say because I do think he was scared and worried about me being in New York.
Yeah.
Marc:But he wanted you to at least try.
Guest:But he wanted me to really try.
Guest:He was like, no, I don't think you should do that.
Guest:I could.
Marc:Well, I never really thought about comedy that way for people that have that weird kind of overwhelmed feeling with the world.
Marc:Like, I don't know how to do things.
Marc:You know, that comedy, you know, once you get in it, like it's very specific.
Marc:I'm going to go up there at first for four minutes and do this.
Marc:Like the structure is very simple.
Marc:I'm going to write this shit down and I'm going to go up there and try it.
Marc:And then that's it.
Marc:That's that's the structure.
Marc:Yeah, that's all of it.
Marc:And then once you get into it, you can spread it out.
Marc:Like I'm going to do more time and I got to, but it's very, it's more simple than, than most things.
Marc:Like, you know, what's, what's your job?
Marc:Well, I got to write some shit down and I got to make the people laugh with it.
Marc:And that's it.
Marc:And then you get this built in community of, of other misfits that,
Marc:so there's this weird acceptance in the family of comedians that everybody's a fucking freak and flawed and weird and living in a different time zone than normal people so it's like the perfect place for people that don't have structure you're right you know and also it's like you you have to do it that's the good thing about stand-up too it's like there's no sliding yeah you can't you have to get up there and even even with your spot time like you can't be rolling in at you know 8 15 if you're on stage at 8 you're on stage at 8 or somebody else's
Marc:Right, and there's no way you're going to be accepted into the family if you don't do it.
Marc:And even if you don't do it well, you get respect for trying and for doing something different.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And also, I think that for me, it was the first thing that made me feel like, oh, well, maybe I am smart.
Guest:Because I'd meet other smart comics or people like you that were more obviously intellectual to me that reminded me of my dad.
Guest:And I always felt like, oh, I have these smart parents, but I'm not smart.
Guest:You know, technically smart.
Guest:And then I was like, this group of people that I admire, you know, to me, some of the comics I know and my dearest friends, I feel like, oh, I'm lucky I get to hang out with people with the most smartest and extraordinary minds.
Guest:And then that made me feel also like, hey, maybe I'm smart.
Guest:Yeah, they're hilarious.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like no matter all the shit we talk, it's like we have so an absurd, illegal amount of fun just talking to each other.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And people and they're all unique thinkers and they work shit out on their own.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Like they're smart in a very raw way.
Marc:A lot of us, you know, we're all figuring shit out.
Marc:And so much about what comedy is is your point of view.
Marc:What are you doing?
Marc:What makes you different?
Marc:How are you special?
Marc:We don't really think about it, but the guys we know, if you really think about those guys, even at the table, at the cellar, Patrice, Norton, Geraldo, rest their souls, the ones who are gone, Colin, they're all painfully unique people with very unique point of view.
Guest:Yeah, and I remember having those people.
Guest:Keith.
Guest:Keith.
Guest:Oh, Keith is one of the funniest people in the entire world.
Guest:Keith has made me cry laughing.
Marc:Keith Robinson.
Marc:Yeah, he's a real guy.
Guest:Keith Robinson is hysterical.
Guest:I mean, it's funny because we were doing this road trip a long time ago, and it was like me and Keith and Kevin Hart on the road.
Guest:And Keith was just teasing me about my dad being a civil rights lawyer, you know?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And he was like, he goes, I'm going to kill Rachel and I'm going to have a dad defend me.
Guest:Because I'm going to call him up and I'm going to say this is the case that's going to make you a star.
Marc:That's pretty dark for Keith, huh?
Guest:Yeah, but it's like, it was funny because he was hysterical.
Guest:He was like one of the funniest people I ever met at that point in my life.
Guest:I'm like, this guy has so much fun and he's so funny.
Guest:But I remember just like talking to this group of people and I'm like, okay, so you don't have to dispose of those parts of yourself to...
Marc:Oh, yeah, right.
Marc:You can embrace them.
Marc:And that's the other thing that's weird that we still get or that you do.
Marc:I don't know that I get it as much anymore.
Marc:But there's weird insecurity around people that have what we assume is a normal life.
Marc:Is that like we live a much more interesting life than a lot of people.
Marc:But there's still something in the back of our heads like, you know, why don't I have the trappings of what seems like a stable middle class life?
Marc:Where actually we, you know, we're the ones that they should be going like, what is your life like?
Marc:Not like...
Marc:Who are they to condescend?
Marc:I think it's shallow and it is essentially condescending for them to be like, so this weird thing you do, it's like, yeah, I'm out there living a weird ass life.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Doing things that you can never imagine.
Marc:Who are you to think that this is like, I know exactly what's going on here.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Like, yeah, they do size it up pretty quick.
Guest:They're pretty sure they're understate.
Guest:It's funny.
Guest:You're right.
Guest:Because, like, it's weird.
Guest:Sometimes, you know, like in different hard moments in my life or painful times where I'm on stage or on the road or something.
Guest:And afterwards, I'll talk to some couple.
Guest:They'll come up to me afterwards.
Guest:And they have these very, like, cozy lives that sometimes I really want for myself.
Guest:And they'll be like...
Guest:Thanks so much for making her a date night incredible.
Guest:You just really made her a date night.
Guest:And part of me is just like, fuck you.
Guest:I want a date night.
Guest:But it's not because I'm not glad they're there supporting me.
Guest:It's because I'm jealous, I realize.
Guest:I get kind of jealous.
Guest:Maybe it's like I feel partially judged at moments.
Marc:That we're so jaded.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, but I'm kind of jealous of them, you know what I mean?
Guest:And I appreciate their support, but I'm also like, I want to find, I do want to figure out a way that I can have like that cozy life.
Guest:And I want to cozy, I want to feel cozy, you know, but, um, and not like cozy as in wealthy, just cozy.
Marc:The same thing you've always been looking for is some sort of family that, you know, that has some, some structure.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:I mean, I don't want to talk.
Guest:I want to talk to the same group of people I want to talk to every day.
Guest:I feel like, well, whatever life I've lived, it's led me to have the best conversations possible, I feel like.
Marc:I think you can still do that.
Guest:Yeah, I hope so.
Guest:I want a cozy life.
Marc:So when did you first get on stage?
Marc:What happened?
Guest:I was, I went on stage at this bar on the Upper East Side, which closed down now.
Guest:And I think I was so nervous that I drank like four Jack and Cokes.
Guest:And I like will have a few drinks, but I don't drink like that.
Guest:I never drank that much in my life, you know, but I was just terrified.
Guest:Usually, you know, I'll have like a beer or like something like that, you know, but I...
Guest:I wanted to just escape the building.
Guest:All day at work, I was at my nanny job fantasizing about a fire.
Guest:I always have a fire fantasy.
Guest:If I have something I don't want to do, I'm just like, well, hopefully the building will go on fire.
Marc:People will die, so I won't have to do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I was just like praying there was going to be a fire.
Guest:And then I drank more than I'd ever drank in my life that night.
Guest:And then I got on stage and I remember like loving it and having a really good time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was told afterwards that I was like not just wildly bombing, but that like it was a real problem.
Guest:Like they were trying to get me off stage.
Guest:I wasn't listening to anyone.
Marc:You got it in your own world.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the microphone apparently wasn't even pointed at my mouth.
Guest:It was sort of diagonally across my face pointed north.
Marc:Oh, you're in outer space.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So I was it was I think it was a real disaster.
Guest:But I thought it was.
Marc:That's all that's important.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That you killed.
Marc:Fuck the truth.
Yeah.
Guest:Fuck the truth.
Marc:You're right.
Marc:It got you to the next one.
Guest:Yeah, it got me to the next one.
Guest:You're right.
Guest:I was like, I'd like to do that again.
Guest:And then they were like, yeah, we gave you the light like four times.
Guest:I didn't even see the light.
Marc:Did you start doing, were you always doing characters?
Guest:I think I started telling stories.
Guest:Yeah, I would do, yes, I would do like characters and then I impersonate people in my life and stuff.
Guest:And then I think at first it was just more like I just do this voice.
Guest:And then I started telling stories and learning how to be like more honest and more of myself on stage.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, when I look at, I think I had this like attitude when I started, like that I thought was like cool.
Guest:It's just humiliating to watch an old tape of myself because I'm kind of like sauntering around.
Guest:Yeah, that's what I was telling you.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:It's embarrassing.
Guest:You're right.
Guest:That is what you were telling me.
Guest:Shit.
Guest:I mean, I hate that I had an offstage, too.
Guest:What was I?
Marc:Well, because, well, like from what I can tell, and I'm no psychoanalyst, but just from my own life, is that given that, you know, we're sort of like these expansive kind of unstructured type of people that come from that, like, you know, you're going to lock in on something that gets you through.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:You've got to figure out a way to be.
Marc:In order to not just sort of like drift away.
Marc:You said you got sad.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you got to get some swagger going.
Marc:Happens naturally.
Guest:Yeah, but you didn't have swagger.
Guest:Did you have swagger?
Guest:Yeah, I was angry.
Guest:You were just angry.
Marc:Yeah, well, that's that.
Marc:That's my version.
Guest:Yeah, you're just furious.
Marc:Furious.
Marc:Steaming.
Marc:Just like smoldering in the corner.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, wearing some sort of, like, gentle, like, sort of like a liberal t-shirt.
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Marc:My nice glassy.
Marc:Just full of anger and fear and wanting to be liked, but fighting that.
Guest:I just remember always hearing about your relationships.
Guest:Like, it always seemed like you were involved in some sort of, like, a wild, like, all your relationships always sounded very wild to me.
Marc:Yeah, it was out of control.
Guest:There was always, yeah, like, some kind of, like, a very, like, a public fight.
Guest:It was, like, him against this woman.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:It was a one-sided public fight.
Marc:My side, usually, yeah.
Marc:all the women would just run away and be like oh god why does he stop talking about me yeah but you were always but you were always very good to everybody you were always like very friendly yeah I was my own problem I appreciated that because a lot of times when I started you know people just you know people say fucked up shit and they're not that warm sometimes so I always remember who's warm oh well I'm glad I did that like I don't know if everyone has that same memory I'm finding that more people do than I thought which is good
Guest:Yeah, you're always warm to me.
Guest:And I mean, people would when you started, you just remember every every awful moment with somebody, you know.
Marc:Oh, right.
Marc:Where you feel like something like because you're nervous and they're there who they are and you don't want it to go badly.
Guest:And I'm sure I was very annoying, too, because I just every exchange I had with everybody was so magnified.
Guest:It was like, I'm talking to Greg Geraldo, you know, so I'm sure I was a fucking pain to deal with, you know.
Guest:Although Greg was also really, really kind like that too.
Guest:He was a sweet guy.
Guest:He was helping me to get into the cellar and just doing various like cool things for me.
Guest:So I guess he saw through my, you know, whatever my dumb NYC attitude of walking around.
Marc:But you got into the cellar.
Marc:How many years?
Marc:I mean, you did the Boston when that was there.
Marc:You did the whole kind of like all the gigs that were available in New York to fucking figure out how to do it.
Marc:And then who'd you start to like, when did you get in the cellar?
Marc:How many years into it were you?
Guest:Uh, I think it was like five years in or something like that.
Marc:And Esty like let you, you got referred by Greg.
Guest:I think it was, yeah, it was Geraldo.
Guest:I can't remember who the second comedian was, but Colin was there and Colin was also just, you know, Colin is like such a gentleman and really sweet to me.
Guest:And so he, he watched my set next to Esty, I remember.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he said something really nice in front of Esty and he made the point to do that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, he was always like the gentleman of everyone.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Sort of like, yeah, like fatherly gentleman.
Guest:He was just so sweet to me.
Guest:So him and Greg, I think they talked to her and and I and she also obviously she made her own decision to watch me.
Guest:But I was I think I kind of bombed my way out of there and then I got went back in years later.
Guest:So.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:yeah i don't think i i she faded me out i got that slow fade off the schedule and then she late night spots and then all of a sudden no spots and then just goes to yeah because i think i was i don't think i was really quite ready to be there yet and then i got back in years later oh yeah yeah it's like so weird the weight of that place where you just like she still makes me nervous and she's got actually gotten nicer
Guest:I still remember being on the playground, like taking care of the kids on Thursdays when you would get your spot, you know?
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I didn't have, I would just like, I mean, I didn't have any ability to not go crazy.
Guest:Every Thursday morning I'd get up just so anxious.
Guest:Am I going to get a spot?
Guest:Am I going to get a spot?
Guest:And then I would check.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I would check my messages in the playground and just be like, yeah.
Marc:And then if there'd be no message, like I would actually call.
Marc:Like I just, did I not, like I needed vocal conference.
Guest:Did I miss something?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know if I got my messages.
Guest:like i needed her to say no no not this week oh fuck i like keith used to call me up and he'd be like can you do it for us never again you know how was it tell to you nice it's hell was so cool and he would get me work and yeah he was one of those guys that would bring you on the road never hit on you always be as cool as shit and such a sweetheart yeah he brought you on the road
Guest:Yes, a couple times he would have me open for him.
Guest:And then he would, I was bartending for a while at Caravis, Carrie Caravis' bar.
Guest:And I remember Attell used to come in there and I'd be so nervous.
Guest:You know, I'm like, Dave Attell is in the bar.
Guest:You know, I was like so terrified.
Guest:And then he would come over and ask me a few questions like, oh, are you getting up?
Guest:You know, whatever.
Guest:And then he would leave like an absurdly large tip on the bar.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, drink like half of his shot of Jaeger.
Guest:You know, we'd have some odd exchange where he didn't make eye contact with me.
Guest:And I blamed it on myself not knowing, you know, whatever his social anxiety was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then he would leave like an absurd sum of money every time, you know, and then he would just get me things along the way.
Guest:Always, you know, got me work and was really cool to me.
Guest:So is Todd Berry.
Guest:Got me a lot of work as well.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Did he open for Todd?
Guest:Yeah, it opened for Todd and Billy Burr.
Guest:Those were all guys that were really nice and didn't.
Marc:And they took you out?
Guest:Didn't, yeah.
Guest:John Heffron, too.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:So that's how you sort of started featuring for those guys?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Mm hmm.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Those guys, Jeff Ross, too.
Guest:And and Keith.
Guest:And yeah.
Guest:And Marina Franklin and I wouldn't hang out all the time.
Guest:So she was like, yeah, she's great.
Marc:She's hilarious.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:We were the ones that were sort of like it was like the two of us kind of running back and forth between the cellar in Boston.
Guest:And yeah.
Marc:And then like, well, that's beautiful story.
Marc:The nice fellas of comedy.
Guest:I mean, yeah, there's plenty of animals, but those guys are really good to me.
Marc:Those are good guys sound good to you.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's funny, but because it does.
Guest:When you started, who brought you on the road in the beginning?
Marc:I started in a weird way because like I did, I started actually working as a comic in Boston.
Marc:So the shows were, you know, they were all one nighters and it would be the opener would do a half hour and then the, and it'd be a two man show and the headliner would do 45 and that would be the show.
Marc:So I sort of started working with a half hour.
Marc:Like I didn't have to do the sort of open air.
Marc:Like by the time I got to New York, I was almost a headliner.
Marc:Like, so it was, I didn't feature a lot.
Guest:So you just went pretty quickly to it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, it wasn't quickly.
Marc:I mean, it took years.
Marc:But when I moved to San Francisco in 92, I was only in New York that first time from 89 to 92.
Marc:And Esty wouldn't work me.
Marc:No one wouldn't work me.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Nah.
Marc:I was too angry, too weird.
Marc:Where were you playing?
Marc:Boston and the old improv, the original improv.
Marc:Where was that?
Guest:I didn't know there was an improv in New York.
Marc:The original improv was in New York.
Guest:Oh, right, right, of course, of course, yeah.
Marc:On 44th, I think.
Marc:And it was like sort of like on its last legs, but she would work me.
Marc:And I would do road shit in Boston.
Marc:I'd go back every weekend to make money.
Marc:And then when I moved to San Francisco, I sort of started headlining.
Marc:So I sort of skipped over that feature thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And but I, you know, I remember I featured for Colin once and it was, you know, it was a point of contention.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah, because, well, you know, well, I'm sure not anymore.
Marc:But like when I first got to San Francisco and I was featuring, I paid a lot of dues doing pretty strong half hours and 40 minute sets.
Marc:Mm hmm.
Marc:And, you know, I was close to being a headliner.
Marc:And then, you know, you don't really want to do it.
Marc:But and I know this because there's a karmic return to it.
Marc:I've been handed my ass by middles plenty of times.
Marc:You know, if there's a guy in the middle, that's crushing it.
Marc:So, you know, you're like, oh, I'm going to be rough.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:and you know and that happened i remember what colin did a week and i you know and it was like and i think part of me went out of my way to sort of like you know crush because you want to crush you want to show off and show them you can do well not just show off but show me your strong yeah and i always felt shitty about that i've never felt completely comfortable around colin even though he's treated me pretty well you know he put me on tough crowd and stuff and we're okay but i've never had this i've never done a wtf with him or anything really
Guest:Have you asked him?
Marc:Yeah, it just never, it hasn't happened.
Marc:I don't know, I don't know.
Marc:It's okay.
Marc:I'm good with him.
Marc:But just speaking to that, I didn't feature a lot.
Guest:Well, you also had a lot of material too.
Marc:I guess it was unorthodox.
Marc:If you came up doing those two-man shows for a couple years where you were going out on the road in these weird environments and doing a half an hour, you're right out of the gate.
Marc:You were pretty solid.
Marc:I mean, I middled a bit, but I started headlining like 93, 92, 93.
Marc:Did your parents come out and watch you?
Marc:Yeah, when I'd go to New Mexico.
Marc:Like I did, I did, like when I was at, well, there's that whole other time.
Marc:I guess I'm not really being completely, like there was a period there where I was a doorman at the comedy store right after college.
Marc:I came to LA and I got all fucked up and I did do some opening.
Marc:Like I went back to Albuquerque and I opened for some people at that club and they would come see that.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, I mean.
Guest:So like bits of it, yeah.
Marc:No, I would definitely, yeah.
Marc:There was just, I did opening, but there was not a lot of middling.
Marc:Because of Boston, because of the way that system worked up there.
Guest:Yeah, I remember hearing about it a lot when I started.
Guest:Yeah, you just sort of figured out who was good and then they just came out of there.
Marc:Well, you worked.
Marc:You were able to work.
Marc:There was all these one-nighters and that was the road.
Marc:That's how you worked.
Marc:Once you got a half hour, you'd go get paid and you'd drive and you'd go do these opening spots.
Guest:I always loved the crowds there because I would go there.
Guest:My older brother, the one that works in advertising, I was at Berkeley Music School there.
Guest:And I would go visit him at Berkeley and do that.
Guest:What's the room that was above the Chinese restaurant?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:The comedy studio?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And the crowds were so great there.
Marc:Well, that wasn't there when I was there.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:No, we had real kind of old school Boston comedy clubs like Nick's and the Comedy Connection.
Marc:And Barry Katz had a room when I was in college called Play It Against Sam's.
Marc:It was in a basement up in Alston.
Marc:Stitches.
Guest:Play It Against Sam's is such a ridiculous.
Marc:Well, it was this weird place.
Marc:It was basically a bar with a movie theater that you could drink in.
Marc:And in the basement was the comedy club.
Marc:And it was like a real place.
Marc:Like I did open mics here when I was in college.
Marc:But so now like you, you're a big headliner.
Guest:Thanks.
Guest:There's such a sadness to that response.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:But no, but you like, you know, been at it a long time.
Marc:You paid your dues.
Marc:Like you got a lot of respect from other comics and, and now you've got your first big special out and Amy produced it.
Marc:Amy Schumer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We're roommates right now.
Marc:Amy and I, I, why, why?
Guest:Well, I went through a breakup, so I moved in with her.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then we, yeah, we lived together and we're enjoying our life together.
Guest:So I don't think I'm going to move.
Marc:But it seems like both of you could live on your own.
Guest:I think, yes, we are capable of doing so now.
Guest:But no, I mean, she was, she, I was saying, I was like, because I live with her and her boyfriend.
Guest:And I was like, I think I'm going to move out in, you know, June or whatever.
Guest:And she's like, just stay a few more months, you know.
Guest:And there's this other place that I was going to go to.
Guest:And I was like, I think I'm going to go to the other place for a few days and give you guys some space.
Guest:And she's like, if you go to the other place, then I'll go to the other place and I'll meet you.
Guest:Like, it was sweet.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we are having fun right now.
Guest:It's a fun life.
Guest:And, you know, she's like, we're never gonna be able to do this again.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So may as well do it for a little while more.
Guest:We're both away a lot, and she's away filming a movie now for a few months.
Guest:But it's nice.
Guest:I like the Upper West Side where we're living right now.
Guest:It's just like a peaceful area.
Guest:It's cool.
Guest:We just go take a walk around the park.
Guest:We'll do a workout tape and scream at it.
Guest:Oh, you do workout tapes together?
Guest:Yeah, we do these workout tapes.
Guest:I just kind of yell at them and work out and then go sit and write in the living room.
Yeah.
Marc:So you're on the staff on her show?
Guest:No, no.
Marc:You just act on her show sometimes?
Guest:I just do stuff on the show, yeah, sometimes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that's sweet.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:Do you open for her ever?
Guest:Yeah, sometimes, yeah.
Guest:I did a few weeks ago in Jacksonville.
Marc:How's that?
Marc:Crazy?
Marc:Orlando.
Marc:Big room?
Guest:Ridiculous.
Guest:She's playing arenas now, and yeah, it's really fun.
Guest:It was me and Mark Norman and Sam Murrell, I think, on the show, that show.
Guest:And yeah, it's crazy.
Yeah.
Marc:So you're doing it.
Guest:She brings her whole family with her on the road too, which is really nice.
Guest:Her brother is in his span.
Guest:He opens for her and he's really good.
Guest:So it's, it's a nice way to travel.
Guest:It's just like all these people.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're parents proud of you.
Guest:They are very sweet.
Guest:They're very kind.
Marc:And you're making a living.
Guest:I mean, sometimes it's they'll come out to shows and it's weird to perform in front of them because they're so proud.
Guest:But, you know, it's just embarrassing.
Guest:Like the other day, like I was performing in D.C.
Guest:and I was in the middle of this joke and I was saying the words like mediocre handjob or something.
Guest:I made like accidental eye contact with my father.
Guest:I was just like, oh, God damn it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, they're sitting there with their open, jazzed up faces.
Guest:But it's lovely.
Marc:That's our dirty daughter.
Guest:Yeah, but they're really supportive.
Guest:Yeah, that's ridiculous.
Marc:Well, good.
Marc:Well, I'm glad things are working out.
Marc:What's the special called?
Marc:Only Whores Wear Purple?
Guest:It's called Only Whores Wear Purple.
Guest:And it's on Comedy Central.
Guest:You can get it on Amazon or the CC app.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Yeah, I promote that.
Marc:Oh, cool.
Marc:Yeah, they're sponsors.
Guest:Awesome.
Marc:So get a double dose of promotion.
Marc:It was great talking to you, Rachel.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Thank you so much, Mark.
Marc:That was nice.
Marc:It was nice to talk to her.
Marc:I'm glad she's doing well.
Marc:And check her out at rachel-feinstein.com.
Marc:Funny woman.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right, what else?
Marc:What else?
Marc:What do we got?
Marc:Don't forget to come hang out with me and my producer, Brendan McDonald, in Anaheim next month.
Marc:We'll be at the Now Hear This Festival.
Marc:This is three days of your favorite podcasts live in one place.
Marc:It's October 28th through 30th, and the special WTF show with me and Brendan is on Saturday, October 29th.
Marc:Go to NowHearThisFest.com to get tickets and see the full lineup.
Marc:And now you can use the offer code WTF when you buy tickets to save 25% off general admission.
Marc:That's NowHearThisFest.com.
Marc:Offer code WTF.
Marc:You know, someone sent me this email after I talked to Ben Radliff and Kamasi Washington just talking about the word riffing.
Marc:He said a riff is variations on a phrase.
Marc:You get a phrase going, and it's like, it changed my life.
Marc:All right, I'll play a moment of guitar.
Marc:I've got things to do.
Guest:Hold on.
guitar solo
Guest:Boomer lives.