Episode 743 - Geoff Tate / Nick Kroll & John Mulaney
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What what the fuck happened here?
Marc:Oh my god, I had a brain skid.
Marc:Right at the beginning, it was jarring.
Marc:Did it jar you?
Marc:Like, are some of you sort of hypnotized with the expectation that that thing's going to go well?
Marc:That that first three list of what the fuck people are going to just drop right into place like always?
Marc:I had that same expectation in that moment.
Marc:And it went south on me.
Marc:Right there, right out of the gate.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, you know who we are.
Marc:Welcome to the show.
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:My podcast here at the cat ranch working out of my garage, which I'm for some reason allowing to be hot.
Marc:I just I turn the air off in the house.
Marc:I turn the air off out here.
Marc:I guess I wanted sort of a sweat lodge experience this morning.
Marc:I wanted to kind of feel it out.
Marc:Get rid of the toxins.
Marc:I don't have many toxins in me, but I got a few.
Marc:You always got a few.
Marc:I think the toxins can just generate themselves with bad thoughts.
Marc:It's not all about what you eat or what you put in your body.
Marc:I have this theory that's probably can be proven or disproven that bad thoughts will create the chemicals in your body to generate toxins.
Marc:Of course that's true.
Marc:Of course it is.
Marc:Why does sickness come from stress?
Marc:It's an inside job.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:There's an analogy for a manifestation of your own self-destruction, even if you're behaving properly.
Marc:Why am I sick?
Marc:It's an inside job.
Marc:No one had nothing to do with this but you.
Marc:It's going to get you from the inside.
Marc:optimistic, beautiful thoughts for a Monday morning or wherever, whenever you're listening to this.
Marc:I apologize.
Marc:Everything's all right.
Marc:I'm just sweating in my garage and it's fine.
Marc:I feel okay.
Marc:How you doing?
Marc:You okay?
Marc:Everything all right with you?
Marc:Special show today.
Marc:Later in the show, I got my friend Jeff Tate in here.
Marc:He's a funny comedian.
Marc:We get into it.
Marc:Get into some real shit about narcissistic parents.
Marc:And then in a few minutes, I'm going to have John Mulaney and Nick Kroll doing their thing.
Marc:They've got their show Oh Hello on Broadway.
Marc:So we'll talk to them about that.
Marc:But what's going on here?
Marc:What's going on with me?
Marc:Tour stuff, I do want to get a couple of dates out.
Marc:I know I do this, but it is what it is.
Marc:This weekend, September 24th, two shows at the Wilbur.
Marc:I don't know where we're at, but I know they got to be close to selling out.
Marc:I hope.
Marc:I know that we're doing all right.
Marc:On October 21st, Campbell Hall at University of California, Santa Barbara.
Marc:On October 22nd, Largo here in Los Angeles.
Marc:October 23rd.
Marc:the Ice House down the street here in Pasadena.
Marc:And October 29th, Brendan McDonald, my business partner and producer, are going to be at the Now Hear This Festival.
Marc:It's taking place in Anaheim.
Marc:There's going to be like 30 great podcasts, all live and in one place.
Marc:And will you guys ask for it?
Marc:You can now get single-day tickets to the festival.
Marc:It's on October 28th through the 30th, as I said.
Marc:Brendan and I will be there on the 29th, but the whole festival is Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
Marc:For all of the info, you can go to NowHearThisFest.com for the tickets and whatnot.
Marc:You can also get there through WTFPod.com.
Marc:November 4th.
Marc:I will be at Carnegie Hall, as you know.
Marc:There's a few tickets left.
Marc:Seriously, selling well.
Marc:I'm happy about that, but nervous.
Marc:I want to push this one too.
Marc:November 19th, Nashville, Tennessee at the James K. Polk Theater.
Marc:I'm excited to go back to Nashville.
Marc:I'm excited to eat in Nashville.
Marc:I'll be at the Vic Theater December 3rd.
Marc:That's in Chicago.
Marc:I just have to do this because they're coming up and some of them are rescheduled and I should want people at my shows, which I do.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I did have a few interesting moments recently.
Marc:And I want to give a shout out to the unsung heroes of shoe repair.
Marc:I don't know what kind of shoes you wear or what level you operate with your shoes.
Marc:But I wear shoes that need to be resold.
Marc:I don't wear sneakers much.
Marc:I wear boots usually.
Marc:And you need a shoe guy.
Marc:You got to have a shoe guy.
Marc:And I need a shoe guy that feels like a real shoe guy.
Marc:I can't bring it to you.
Marc:You got to walk into a shop, a shoe shop, a shoe guy shop, shoe repair dude.
Marc:You got to walk in and they always have like laces, usually belts and some purses and stuff, you know, somewhat displayed in the store, maybe in display cases, but it doesn't look like any of that shit is sold in decades.
Marc:And then there's got to be weird pictures on the wall of
Marc:Well, it depends where you live, you know, like, you know, maybe celebrities that are kind of off the grid a little bit like a Tony Danza shot signed.
Marc:You see this at dry cleaners out here, too.
Marc:But, you know, the shoe guy, it's important that he seems to know what he's doing.
Marc:He's got to have that.
Marc:that feel that the old dude that's been doing shoes for a long time sees it as a craft probably smoke cigarettes and right there in the back there in the shop there's a lot of leather pieces around there's a smell to it that there's a sort of clutter to it but you know he understands it and he's just got to have this focus where you're going to trust him with this craft it's a craft shoe repair it's a beautiful thing
Marc:And I imagine there's still plenty of these guys around, but it's hard to find a good one.
Marc:Like I went to this dude, George, at Georgia Shoe Repair down on Colorado in Eagle Rock.
Marc:And he was an old guy, but he was sort of abrasive.
Marc:And it felt there was an anger to the heel he put on.
Marc:He made a comment because my heels were wearing a certain way.
Marc:He said that your walk is fucked up.
Marc:He didn't say fucked up, but he says you got a problem with your walk.
Marc:It wouldn't wear this way.
Marc:I'm like, I know.
Marc:Can we just not attack me?
Marc:I understand.
Marc:Can you put the heel on?
Marc:Then he told me about Red Wings subcontracting their heels out, and he used to do them for Red Wings, and I believed him.
Marc:Then he just sort of slapped these fucking heels on.
Marc:that he didn't know if he had the right size heel I don't know the conversation he was smoking which I like he had pictures which were okay there was some other old guys hanging out they were doing a thing fine he also sharpens knives which is a nice plus because you know I you need a knife sharpened occasionally but I didn't have complete faith I felt like he was over it and he was sort of kind of going through the motions with the heel that he put on
Marc:But then I went back to this other guy because I didn't want to go to the George.
Marc:I went to this other guy that I went to once years ago at Harutz on over here on Eagle Rock.
Marc:And I walk in and I feel bad about this, but I don't know what you're going to do.
Marc:I walk in the old man's there with all the stuff I mentioned, but he's got a he's got a portable respirator on.
Marc:So he's got the tube going up in, you know, under his nose.
Marc:And he's telling me how, you know, he got out of the hospital.
Marc:He's feeling OK, but he's going to be a little slow, but he's getting back into it.
Marc:And I felt bad for him.
Marc:But then I had that feeling like, what if I leave my shoes here and this guy doesn't make it?
Marc:Is it going to be a problem getting these boots back?
Marc:I like these boots.
Marc:And I thought, like, dude, you can't really think that way.
Marc:You know, if you want this guy to have the work and you believe in his work, you should give him the work and and hope for the best.
Marc:But I was sort of ashamed of myself that I had that thought.
Marc:Like, I might never get these boots back because this guy might not live.
Marc:And then I really didn't know.
Marc:And it was going to take him a long time because he's moving slower.
Marc:So I gave him a few weeks and I went back in there and he called me.
Marc:And I went back in there and I looked at these boots and the bottom of these boots were like art.
Marc:They were like fucking art.
Marc:He did a sole and he did a heel and he sort of like trimmed around the leather on the sole in a way that looked like he was focused on it.
Marc:There was little divots in there that he put in that was obviously a stylistic decision.
Marc:And he put a little coat of polish on the sole and the heel and it just had this...
Marc:kind of soft, perfectly placed vibe to it.
Marc:And I couldn't stop looking at the bottom of these fucking boots like this guy's a genius.
Marc:This guy's an artist.
Marc:And he is.
Marc:And he's got this respirator set up, so he's got about 30 feet of line.
Marc:He can move around the whole shop.
Marc:And I thanked him, and I thought it was beautiful, and we did a little fist bump, and he seemed genuinely excited that he's back in the groove.
Marc:And they just, I'm afraid to walk on him, but I can't stop looking at these fucking soles and heels.
Marc:It's so beautiful to see a craftsman do his work with passion and focus and experience, even if it's fucking shoes.
Marc:And most importantly, shoes.
Marc:All right, so here we go.
Marc:It's always a party when I have the young fellers on, the young guns of comedy.
Marc:Some people think I bust too much balls on the young guys, but they could take it.
Marc:It's part of their training.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But I happen to love Nick Kroll and John Mulaney and their show, Oh Hello, is now on Broadway.
Marc:Performances begin this Friday, September 25th, and it's running for a limited engagement of 15 weeks.
Marc:So go get your tickets at ohhellobroadway.com.
Marc:This is me and the incredibly funny and talented Nick Kroll and John Mulaney here in the garage.
Oh,
Marc:Can you hear me?
Marc:Oh, it's great.
Marc:Kroll, Mulaney.
Marc:The Young Guns.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Estevez and Sheen.
Guest:Diamond Phillips.
Marc:So I saw your show.
Marc:You did?
Marc:Oh, hello.
Marc:I was on it.
Marc:You were?
Marc:You saw it at Largo, man.
Marc:Not only did I see it, I was the guy on it.
Guest:Yes, you were a wonderful guest on it.
Marc:I was the guest on it.
Marc:And the tuna, is that a spoiler?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:no no it's fine you can reveal the tuna sandwiches that's it that's not a spoiler if people are gonna go see the broadway it's oftentimes spoiled but it's not a spoiler it's been left out but it's no surprise so my my thing is it's very funny uh and i enjoyed it and i'm just gonna get right into it let's go you know i i mean i know you guys i'll give you notes please we're going to broadway man we need notes we need all the help when there's a theater in broadway you're doing
Marc:The Lyceum Theater.
Marc:That's a nice theater.
Marc:I was fascinated with the characters.
Marc:George, give me the full name.
Marc:St.
Marc:Giegland.
Marc:And that's you.
Marc:Yeah, that's me.
Marc:And Gil Faison.
Marc:Because these are New York characters that are so ambiguous.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:But like, you know, where did those, I mean, I kind of know, like there's no point of reference for me to go like, oh, these guys.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But you had, I mean, they're in Albuquerque.
Guest:They're everywhere.
Marc:No, I know.
Marc:The guys who were kind of artistic and never quite manifested.
Guest:Also rands.
Guest:A couple of artistic also rands.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Who are super liberal.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Super misogynistic.
Guest:Right.
Guest:A little racist.
Guest:Kind of gay.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:As John describes George St.
Guest:Giegler when he, when it opened his show.
Guest:Yeah, my character's neither female nor Jewish, but like many men over 70, somehow both.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's just it's a it's a and then Gil is like a, you know, a little baby.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's like an old man baby.
Guest:And it's probably always but I think it is that kind of guy who who is was an artist in some capacity.
Guest:And so he sees himself as such, even if he's not creating art anymore and is not actually the liberal the bastion of liberal thought that he believes himself to be like that of that baby boomer era.
Marc:Right, so these are those guys you just see walking around the west side, the upper west side, that you just wonder about their lives, their clothes look really sort of old.
Guest:I wonder about their money so much.
Marc:Yeah, you do?
Guest:I'm like, you live in that building?
Marc:Where did it come from?
Guest:Where did it come from?
Guest:How does it work?
Guest:Even if it's rent controlled, how does it work?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How do you get a couple hundred dollars together?
Yeah.
Guest:Because you're not working.
Guest:You're not working.
Guest:You're saving ketchups.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Where does it come from?
Marc:I wonder that about everybody.
Marc:And then you just want, do they manage your money well?
Marc:Or is there money there?
Marc:Or do they scrape by?
Marc:Social security?
Marc:Yeah, I think they're on social security.
Guest:They jumped on that.
Guest:Yeah, and just straight up pride.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think there's lots of eviction laws we don't know about that are super Byzantine, and it's hard to kick two guys out.
Guest:It is hard to kick people out.
Guest:Somebody thought that.
Guest:And they're living on the ramen flavor packets.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like if you went into their home, you'd be like, oh, this is incredibly sad.
Guest:If you went through their budget point by point, it would really suck.
Marc:Well, I get scared of that too.
Marc:Just like, you know, you think a lot about like what you're going to do and then you realize you just talk about doing it or you think about doing it and all of a sudden your life's gone.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's the hope.
Guest:That's where you meet our heroes.
Guest:They never became Richard Dreyfuss and Philip Roth and they're kind of still not realizing it.
Marc:That's exactly it though, isn't it?
Marc:And it's just like, because if you don't have kids or you don't have a wife and you just have each other like they do or whatever the hell their backstory is, is that you don't really sense your aging.
Guest:No, if all you have is the mirror to yourself is this other person who's in a similar, same relationship you've had for 45, 50 years.
Guest:And you still insist with each other you're going to hit it big and deserve to.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:With no reality check.
Marc:No reality check.
Marc:How did you guys start making the show?
Marc:What was the kernel of an idea?
Marc:Was it a sketch?
Guest:It was sort of a sketch.
Guest:We hosted a show together at Rafifi.
Guest:You remember Rafifi in New York.
Guest:About 10 years ago.
Guest:And I had been hosting a show with Jessie Klein.
Guest:And then she moved out to LA.
Guest:And I asked John to host the show.
Guest:And we were trying to figure out what we wanted to do.
Guest:Whether we would do stand-up or something.
Guest:And we had started talking like these guys.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We had seen these two guys at a bookstore at the Strand.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:And they were... With their own bags.
Guest:Yes, they each had their own tote bags.
Guest:Old Strand bags.
Guest:The old Strand bags, which we used to say was Strand is eight miles of books.
Guest:And 12 miles of loneliness.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so we see we go in there and we see these two guys buying their individual copies of Alan Alda's Never Have Your Dog Stuffed.
Marc:Hardcover.
Marc:Hardcover.
Marc:Great book, by the way.
Guest:Great book.
Marc:I just talked to Mr. Alda.
Marc:Yes, I know.
Guest:Wonderful conversation.
Guest:Amazing.
Guest:He's such a real actor and artist.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In a way that we're not.
Marc:And a curious guy.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Like a sweet guy.
Marc:And like, yeah, thinker.
Marc:And he's like, he likes science.
Guest:Yes, he hosted, what, 13 Years Scientific American?
Marc:Yeah, he's very into making sure kids like science.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Can you imagine?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Can you imagine caring about that?
Guest:That's so noble.
Guest:I really respect that.
Marc:That's why I don't have children, because I don't care.
Guest:Can you imagine pointing the stars out to them and lying and making up names of the stars?
Guest:So we see these two guys buy that book, and then we just immediately kind of become fascinated with them, follow them out of the Strand to like a diner or coffee shop.
Guest:You're following them now.
Guest:We are now following these two men.
Guest:And we follow them, and then as they sit at a coffee shop and both start reading their copies of Alan Alda's book, Never Have Your Dog Stuff.
Guest:Not talking too much, but clearly like conjoined twins.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we just, they just became a focus point of guys that we've been interested in.
Guest:Right.
Guest:This was also the time of like, what was this, 2005?
Guest:This was when a lot of people through the New York Times had just heard about Jon Stewart or something.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It would be like, people get their news from Jen Daly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You'd be like, oh, you're the worst.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And those types of folks were really, that was a idea.
Marc:It was a generation that maybe were on the pulse.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, 40 years ago?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Like when New York was like, you know, when Dick Cavett was on.
Guest:Yes, when Dick Cavett was on, when Ed Koch before and after became mayor.
Marc:And the literary lions meant something.
Guest:Yeah, and Elaine's was still open.
Guest:You could get $30 spaghetti.
Guest:And like maybe they ended up near CBGB's one night, you know, or like they were outside Studio 54.
Guest:It's that time when New York was dirty and sexy.
Guest:Yeah, and kind of porous.
Guest:They could have made it downtown.
Guest:And these guys probably weren't actually a part of that scene, but they were close enough to it all that they could feel like they were a part of it.
Marc:Well, the funny, also the funny thing about the show is it does take on theater in a way.
Marc:Is that like, you know, there's an idea about theater and what theater should be and what, I don't know what it's become necessarily.
Marc:It's definitely a big money business with, you know, shows that are based on movies.
Guest:We think we're going to be as big as the Lion King.
Guest:Yeah, I think so.
Yeah.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:We think it's going to be as big as The Lion King, which has made about seven and a half billion dollars.
Guest:We don't have the economics that worked out since we're a limited run, but we have hard outs.
Guest:It's going to be close.
Marc:Yeah, it's going to be close.
Marc:But within the show, you kind of play with, like, you know, Armisen used to do a one-man show guy.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:So you guys kind of play with amateur theater a little in a way, right?
Marc:Amateur and... Amateur and professional.
Guest:It is.
Guest:We sort of... I think the idea is that we both love and hate theater.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so... As theater fans do, I think.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so it becomes a celebration.
Guest:Had to sit through some bad ones.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yes, it's interminable.
Guest:There's a new trope that John added in recently that George, when someone coughs into a... Handkerchief to show that they're dying.
Guest:And they just have a little spot of blood.
Guest:Right, so then they can show the audience like, oh, this guy's dying, okay.
Guest:Only cheap that to the audience to show you a spot of blood.
Guest:Or the one-sided phone call where you get all this information out about what the other side is like.
Guest:Like Gil takes a call and he's like...
Guest:The police?
Guest:That's who you are.
Guest:Well, we've seen great plays, and then you'll see plays where you're like, how did you know or think this was done?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, like, they just end.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Those types of mid-line, you're like, whoa, you're going on a sentence.
Guest:I don't understand a lot of plays.
Guest:I don't either.
Guest:And yet, I love going, I do a good piece of, I do think a good piece of theater is.
Guest:Good theater is the best.
Guest:Is it when it's really good, it's amazing.
Marc:Did you go see those Annie Baker plays?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:She's great.
Guest:Flick.
Guest:I saw that.
Guest:I thought that was unbelievable.
Marc:Did you see The Humans, the Stephen Carroll play?
Marc:No, I haven't seen that one.
Marc:That was very good.
Marc:Those are new people that I was introduced to.
Marc:By my friend Scott Rudin.
Marc:Oh, you're dear.
Marc:Nice.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Hey, Scott.
Guest:If you're listening out there, hey, Scott.
Guest:He'll go see you.
Guest:He loves theater.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I saw Flick downtown, and I thought it was over three hours, and I was not at any point bored.
Guest:Normally, I could be in an hour and a half.
Guest:One set.
Guest:One set.
Guest:Three people, three hours, and I was enraptured the whole time.
Guest:But I was sitting there watching the play, and this woman opened up a plastic canister, a plastic of blueberries and starts eating it.
Guest:And I was like, oh, thank you.
Guest:And then there was an old man who was like a George St.
Guest:Giegland type wearing like a Nantucket hat.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, like a Martha's Vineyard pastel hat.
Guest:And he became super focused on the woman eating blueberries.
Guest:Right.
Guest:In an annoyed way.
Guest:Yes, in an annoyed way, gesturing to her.
Guest:Gesturing to no one and to everyone.
Guest:So angry to his wife.
Guest:Can you believe this?
Guest:This woman eating blueberries.
Marc:Was the plastic making noise?
Guest:The plastic was making noise.
Guest:So he was going nuts.
Guest:So for me, I walked out of that show and was like, John, we have to do a bit about how everyone should be welcome to eat food during our show.
Guest:Yeah, and open your containers slowly.
Marc:Make a lot of noise.
Marc:But the funny thing is, when I talk to Annie Baker, it's these subscription theater goers that don't know what they're going to see, that want to remain involved and think it's important, and they show up for these shows that they're not going to understand, and that's you two.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You're the ones that go to that.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:We talked to Will Ferrell about it, and he was like, just wait for night 50 when the people are staring up at you like, what?
Guest:What is this?
Guest:He was like, it's the best.
Guest:But also, it'll be an interesting thing with our show because we are, George and Gil are those people.
Guest:Everything about them is subscription, including their clothes.
Guest:That was my point.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So we will see.
Guest:We will see how those people, and we normally.
Marc:The very small people, the very small group of people that you're directly satirizing.
Marc:Yes, yes.
Marc:Will actually come to your show.
Guest:They will decide whether we live or die.
Marc:Yeah, they're literally a dying breed.
Guest:The people we have flushed out of their holes and choose to satirize.
Marc:Yeah, there's going to be people in your shows in New York that are like, this is too close to home.
Guest:It's like having leukemia and it's only your estranged brother as the bone marrow to keep you alive.
Guest:Although someone said once about, like a comedian said about fat jokes, like they always work because no one thinks they're the fattest person in the room.
Guest:I think all of them will be like, I'm not the most failed writer in here, so this is great.
Marc:Well, the bottom line is that in order to maintain a delusion long enough to still think you're going to make it, you don't think of yourself that way.
Guest:No, of course not.
Marc:It's one of the saddest things about show business.
Guest:Also, I think that we live in, yeah, you're still out there going like, I'm not the irrelevant one.
Marc:It's going to happen, man.
Marc:You never know.
Guest:You never know when it's coming.
Guest:Louis Black was 40 when it happened.
Guest:That's what I heard.
Guest:And our guys are only 75.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And Roddy Dangerfield was 60 when he really hit big.
Guest:And I think they hold both of those men up as, like... Yeah.
Guest:Lou Black was 40 when it happened.
Guest:We're only 35 years.
Marc:But our dear friend Lou Groovy is... Lou Groovy's still not happening.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How much improv is there on a given night outside of the guest section?
Marc:Given Night can rank, I mean, 20 to 30%.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because we forget a lot of stuff.
Guest:We forget our lines.
Guest:But that's so fun, though, right?
Guest:Yeah, and that's what keeps it.
Guest:I think part of it is we're kind of constantly trying to surprise each other with new jokes that will keep us each invested and engaged.
Guest:And also there's always a moment right before we walk out where Birdland by the weather report is playing.
Guest:We do look at each other and go like, I don't remember it tonight.
Guest:For those nights where it's like, I think I know it tonight.
Guest:And then there's nights where it's like, I don't know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:But we will sing the right before the Birdland comes on backstage and we will sing a song to each other.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:To the tune of Birdland about being close friends with the Mets.
Yeah.
Guest:It started off as Meet the Mets.
Guest:Oh, the Mets are a recurring theme.
Guest:The Mets are a part of it.
Guest:The Mets are the show.
Guest:You know, the Mets are, but all that, because that 80s, I grew up in New York in the 80s, Mets, that 86 Mets scene was like a real key for me.
Guest:But it's all of that stuff that I think is, but for some reason we sing this song about how you can become friends with the Mets.
Guest:I mean, honestly, though, this was this became like this both started dead serious and the biggest joke in the world.
Guest:It's like, what are you going to do?
Guest:It's like George and Gil are going to be on Broadway.
Guest:Yeah, it's the biggest fucking joke in the world.
Guest:And yet it became the thing that was like to them, though.
Guest:It's a fucking natural next step.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's a victory lap.
Guest:And you're welcome to New York.
Guest:Of course.
Marc:Are you going to do special things because you're in New York?
Marc:Are you going to?
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:We have special.
Marc:I mean, are you going to get a met?
Guest:Yeah, we're trying to get Mets.
Guest:We're talking guests already.
Guest:We're going to get a Met cap.
Guest:If we don't have Alan Alda on the show, I will see all of this as a fail.
Marc:Why couldn't you?
Marc:Of course you could get him.
Guest:That's the goal.
Guest:He likes to do things.
Guest:We don't all have the cat ranch, though.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:No, but he likes to do things.
Guest:That would be a dream.
Guest:But the goal is to have... Name some other hopeful guests.
Guest:We had a call this morning about getting Trump's doctor.
Guest:Yeah, we want Trump's doctor.
Guest:And we want Bernie.
Guest:We're going to go hard at Bernie Sanders.
Guest:Because Bernie, the idea is that George and Gil go back to the Burlington days with Bernie Sanders.
Marc:Sure, sure.
Guest:That George and Gil were in the Burlington three.
Marc:And Bernie might know about the one gay experience.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:Yeah, at Durst's health food store.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All the preserves.
Guest:Nothing but the preserves watching us.
Guest:Everyone riding on the floor.
Guest:The fact that George and Gil were in Vermont when Robert Durst had opened the health food store.
Guest:And we drove him out of business.
Guest:We said, you little psycho, get out of town.
Guest:You could just time travel with these guys.
Guest:Everywhere.
Guest:East Coast.
Guest:There's some zealot quality to them.
Guest:Anytime I think they're getting irrelevant, like, bam, Robert Durst is out.
Guest:And it's like, yep, that's them too.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:They knew him.
Marc:Okay, Bernie, Alan Alda, Trump's doctor, a Met.
Guest:Yeah, we'll get a Met.
Guest:We'll get a bunch of Broadway people on, hopefully.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:I mean, we'll be there during election, properly in the election season.
Guest:I would assume Trump will ask to come on.
Guest:We'll assume, yeah.
Guest:Would you do that?
Guest:No.
Guest:I guess not.
Guest:He's like a super funny comedian that like... It's gone too far.
Guest:Yeah, it's gone too far.
Guest:It's like... The doctor thing was so funny in the next day.
Marc:Oh, that picture of the doctor.
Guest:And then the Dwayne Wade thing came out and I was like, dude, can you let us have your doctor for 24 hours?
Guest:Yeah, just give us five minutes.
Guest:Yeah, to enjoy your doctor before you're a monster.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Broadway people like what, Nathan Lane or somebody?
Marc:Oh, we'd love him.
Guest:Yeah, Nathan Patti LuPone.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, if anybody's listening, we want you all to come on the show, and George and Gil will be... Jeffrey Gurian, if we can.
Guest:Oh, God, that would be a gift.
Marc:Jeffrey Gurian is a part of our show.
Marc:You have to do two different deals, one's for his hair, and then... He knows that, though.
Guest:We had him on the off-Broadway run.
Guest:He's our security, the Gurian Angels.
Guest:The Gurian Angels.
Guest:Who, by the way, so we had Jeff Gurian on.
Guest:People don't know Jeff Gurian.
Guest:He's the king of comedy.
Marc:Google it.
Guest:Google Jeffrey Gurian.
Guest:G-U-R-I-N.
Marc:You've seen him.
Marc:Have I seen him?
Marc:I've seen him my whole life.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Is he still a practicing dentist?
Marc:Or is he not?
Guest:Jeremy Gurian DDS.
Guest:I don't know if he's a healer.
Marc:But he writes and does comedy a lot.
Guest:But he's a healer.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And he... He was a dentist.
Guest:He was a dentist.
Guest:So he was our... We had this thing called the Gurian Angels.
Guest:He's our security.
Guest:Like the guardian angel.
Guest:So we made him a red satin jacket.
Marc:And we made him a red beret.
Guest:We made him a red beret that he would hold but won't wear because it will...
Marc:mess with his hair.
Marc:If you could get Trump's doctor and Jeffrey Gurian on one show.
Marc:The odds that they don't know each other are so slim.
Guest:They gotta know each other.
Guest:So Gurian comes and does our security for, we did a press conference that we held, that George and Gil held themselves.
Marc:Comedy Matters.
Guest:That's Gurian's website.
Guest:And we made it on there.
Guest:So Gurian is our security and then he comes and sees the show and he goes, you know, I'm actually, I've been friends with Curtis Lewa from the Guardian Angels for 30 years.
Guest:I do his teeth.
Guest:So then he brings Curtis Lewa to the show.
Guest:Who wears the jacket and the real beret.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:As he does.
Guest:He's the inventor.
Guest:He's the king.
Guest:And Armisen was our guest that night.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I've never seen Fred.
Guest:You've known Fred.
Guest:More starstruck, never.
Guest:More starstruck than when he met Curtis Lewa.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Because he's a Long Island kid, you know, Fred.
Guest:So he was like, oh, my God, you're Curtis Lewa.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was like, yeah, I am.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was like, Jeffrey used to help me when I get my teeth knocked out.
Guest:So their arrangement was like 80s Curtis Lewa gets punched in the mouth on the subway, goes to Gurry, and Gurry patches him up.
Guest:Takes care of him.
Guest:He's back out on the street.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Gurian might be involved.
Guest:Gurian will make sure to be involved.
Guest:That's the one promise we can have.
Guest:Oh, who else?
Guest:Joe Piscopo.
Guest:We have an end of Piscopo.
Guest:We want to go to Geraldo.
Guest:I was watching this thing on Morton Downey Jr.
Guest:Why don't you get Cavett?
Guest:Cavett was on the show in New York.
Guest:We would have him back.
Guest:If Morton Downey Jr.
Guest:was alive, we'd have Morton Downey Jr.
Guest:I feel like Gil would go to those tapings.
Guest:Oh, for sure he would go.
Guest:But, like, you know, there's, like, the John McEnroes of the world.
Guest:There's, like, everybody.
Guest:I mean, I'm also, there are a bunch of names.
Guest:All one of them.
Guest:Sondheim we want.
Guest:We want Sondheim hard.
Guest:We want to get Sondheim.
Guest:Stephen, if you're listening, we're huge fans.
Guest:Duo Hello.
Guest:What about Malkovich?
Guest:Yeah, I'll take Malkovich.
Guest:We'll take Malkovich.
Guest:Good actor, great actor.
Guest:If he's listening, great actor.
Guest:William Hurt.
Guest:A dream.
Guest:Please.
Guest:A dream.
Guest:Dreyfus.
Guest:Richard Dreyfus.
Guest:Richard Dreyfus.
Guest:I think that's who Gil Faison has in his crosshairs.
Guest:He saw the apprenticeship of Diddy Kravitz and was like, why aren't I in that movie?
Guest:Why am I not DeJores?
Guest:Why am I not DeJores?
Guest:I could have been eaten by a shark.
Guest:He's never even seen it.
Guest:No, never seen it.
Guest:He doesn't actually know what it's about.
Guest:Dreyfus would be great.
Guest:He lives out here, though, I think.
Guest:But we'll, I mean, that's the goal.
Guest:We'll do a JetBlue, not Mint, but we'll fly pink.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We'll do a Kristen Chenoweth.
Guest:We'll do a, you know, and then we'll have like the, you know, hopefully our friends who are in New York.
Guest:Kelly Ripa.
Guest:Kelly Ripa would love to have her.
Guest:We want to go on.
Guest:George and Gil want to go on The View.
Guest:They want to go on.
Guest:Yeah, we really want, George and Gil really want to be on The View.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That should be doable.
Guest:That's what we're working on.
Guest:We're working on George and Gil, Dr. Oz.
Marc:Well, all this money goes into advertising and doing these things because it's not a pricey production, the Tui is.
Guest:It actually is.
Guest:We have a proper Broadway set and union guys.
Guest:But it becomes a much bigger... We are trying to take a show that and scale it to wherever it is.
Guest:Yeah, when we started to do bigger houses like the Wilbur and the Warner, it was like, okay, let's project a little...
Marc:So by doing the test shows in these other markets, you realize you could build... Scale it up, baby.
Marc:Right, but you didn't have a set there.
Guest:We had a beautiful backdrop that was different than the Cherry Lane set.
Guest:But that was just for traveling reasons.
Guest:So our set in New York, our Broadway, is going to be a real...
Marc:Maybe you could turn around and you're at the strand.
Guest:I'd like a little lazy Susan just in the middle, just for us to turn.
Guest:Just for, like, you know, dumplings.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Time has passed and now a slow turn.
Guest:And now a slow turn and we dip egg roll into duck sauce.
Guest:A turn so that we can each pop a pill that we've pocketed the whole time.
Marc:Well, it sounds fun.
Marc:So the plan is you're going to have a guest.
Guest:We'll have guests, but we also, on the road, we would pull people out of the audience.
Guest:So my guess is we'll have a mix of Broadway people, political people, Hollywood people, comedy people, but then also we would pick kids out of the audience and...
Guest:we pulled a geologist out of the audience in Boston who was working on the big dig you know yeah in a way that's almost as much fun as and I listen to your show it's like sometimes it's the discovery of someone's life that is as interesting as knowing everything about I get a lot of requests for people to for me to interview just people people have you done that a person person yeah
Guest:Not a monster who's chosen to become an artist?
Guest:Not someone with an artifice selling something?
Marc:I don't think I really have.
Marc:Just like a guy who, like, you know, my optometrist is a jazz trumpeter.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah, he's got a place right down here, but he's a Jew from Indianapolis, I believe.
Marc:Really?
Marc:His father, I think, was like a pharmacist or something, and he grew up a Jew wanting to be a jazz guy, and he's part of the Indianapolis.
Marc:The Indianapolis thriving Indianapolis jazz.
Guest:Has he ever played with Goldblum?
Marc:No, but he plays down here at the York like once a week with his trio.
Marc:He's got records out.
Guest:To me, I would happily listen to that interview.
Marc:He talks like a jazz guy.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, man.
Marc:He talks like that.
Marc:He's like, yeah, you got a cataract, bro.
Marc:Yeah, no bros.
Guest:I saw a doctor once who was a Lord Buckley enthusiast.
Guest:We talked about Lord Buckley.
Guest:It was a full physical where we talked about Lord Buckley.
Guest:When he made it, it stayed there.
Guest:That is fucking good.
Marc:Buckley's good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:I would love to have, I mean.
Guest:De Blasio we'll take.
Guest:We'll take De Blasio.
Guest:We'll take Al Sharpton.
Guest:We're hoping for Al Sharpton.
Guest:You can get those guys.
Guest:Would you want Rudy or no?
Guest:No, not now.
Marc:I don't think so.
Marc:Not anymore.
Marc:Well, I mean, he's too active.
Guest:We lay in.
Guest:Rudy gets a piece from us.
Marc:Oh, he does?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, if you guys, and I think you could handle it, and he knows how to play, but you'd have to go at him a little.
Guest:We'd let him dress up like a lady, which is what he wants to do more than anything.
Guest:No one focuses on that anymore, but he did that like nine or ten times.
Guest:The eight years that he ruled New York with like Gestapo-like tactics, but then once a year would... Once a year would be like, oh, look who's in the Rockettes.
Guest:Come on, we're having a good time.
Guest:Everyone's arrested.
Marc:Everyone get in the car.
Marc:So you're not worried about booking a guest for every night?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:It's really fun to pull people up.
Guest:It's fun to pull people from the crowd, and I think the crowd, you want to just make people feel, and I believe it to be true, like everybody that night is having the experience of being in that show on that night.
Guest:And also by not remembering our lines, it helps.
Marc:Have you guys tried crowd surfing at all?
Marc:Oh my gosh.
Marc:Those guys have... I think I just added to the show.
Marc:I know.
Guest:By the way, there's like the calcium supplements that these guys are not taking.
Guest:They would literally crumble backwards.
Guest:And you just hit a hard flip phone when you hold their pocket.
Guest:Have these gone on sale yet?
Guest:Tickets are on sale.
Guest:These suckers are on sale.
Guest:These suckers are on sale.
Guest:OhHelloBroadway.com.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:OhHelloBroadway.com.
Guest:We can't say this enough.
Guest:Both John and I, I think, are super comfortable pushing this so hard.
Guest:Just because it's the most fun thing to do.
Guest:So it becomes like, I have no... What, are we going to lower its integrity?
Guest:Go see the thing.
Guest:Go see it.
Guest:Go buy tickets.
Guest:Go see that goddamn show.
Guest:They're more expensive than you think.
Guest:You're going to pay more than you want.
Guest:Goddammit, go to the show.
Guest:It's a night out.
Guest:It's for us.
Guest:Go to dinner on 44th Street.
Guest:Have a weird meal that's Italian.
Guest:Tell the waiter you have to leave by six.
Guest:Go eat expensive barbecue that's not that good and be exhausted.
Guest:Come to the show and be exhausted.
Guest:Go to dinner at 5.30.
Guest:Pay way too much.
Guest:It's all over at night.
Guest:Right around the corner from the theater.
Guest:Do a peanut M&M sugar boost and then crash so hard.
Guest:Get a sippy cup of Diet Coke.
Guest:That look exactly the same right there.
Guest:Oh, God.
Guest:If you buy a soda, you're not going to get the cap because you know you'll whip it at the stage.
Guest:Go have terrible spaghetti and then come see the show.
Guest:Hard spaghetti that even a college student wouldn't make.
Guest:Stand outside and try to see if there's someone who will call.
Marc:Oh, Lin-Manuel, get him.
Guest:Oh, yeah, there's a big ask out to him.
Guest:But, you know, Oh Hello and Hamilton are big rounds.
Guest:We're going hard at Hamilton.
Guest:Yeah, we're taking all the steam.
Guest:Because the main guy left.
Guest:Yeah, because the guy who wrote the show and started.
Guest:Did you guys see the show?
Marc:Yes, it was very... How much did you pay for tickets?
Guest:I paid a lot of money.
Guest:Is that me?
Guest:Is that my fault?
Guest:I think it's you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A classic marimba ring.
Guest:Who do we have?
Guest:Name names.
Marc:I get these weird calls from the New York area selling things.
Guest:Did you donate to a political campaign?
Guest:No.
Guest:Is that what it is?
Guest:Yeah, because I donated to our main man, Bernie, seven, eight months ago.
Guest:Don't jump down my throat.
Guest:It was a while ago.
Guest:And it was one that was cute.
Guest:And now I get calls.
Guest:I get about three now, two or three calls a day from like Kissimmee, St.
Guest:Florida or like wherever.
Marc:And they're like, you want to refinance?
Guest:And it's like, this is the IRS.
Guest:You are, we are foreclosing.
Guest:Now that would send George and Gil into a deep panic.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:All they need is our credit card numbers.
Guest:And they'll straighten it out.
Guest:Do you guys take Diners Club still?
Guest:Okay.
Guest:All right, all right.
Marc:Well, thank you.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:It was great.
Marc:I'm so happy you guys are going to do it.
Marc:Come and be on the show in New York.
Marc:Yeah, be a guest.
Marc:When is it run?
Guest:We run from September 23rd to January 8th.
Guest:Until the show gets canceled.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:If I'm going, I'll tell you.
Marc:Come be on the show.
Marc:Don't you have business in New York?
Marc:George and Gil are going to prank you so hard, baby.
Marc:I'm going next week for a few days, but I don't know if I'm going back again.
Guest:We'll be there every night.
Guest:God damn it.
Marc:Every night.
Guest:Even Mondays?
Guest:Mondays were dark.
Guest:Mondays were dark.
Guest:Mondays are terrible for us.
Guest:Mondays are dark so that George and Gil can take an Epsom salt bath.
Guest:And float.
Guest:A 40 hour.
Guest:They do like a, they do an altered states.
Guest:Floating.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Floating.
Guest:In the bathroom.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In the old shitty tub.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They do it in their own tub.
Guest:With a blindfold.
Marc:All right.
Marc:It's going to be fun.
Marc:I'm glad you guys came out.
Guest:Thank you, Mark.
Guest:Bye, Mark.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:Bye.
Marc:Bye, Mark.
Marc:Bye.
Marc:Fun, right?
Marc:Huh?
Marc:Aren't those fellas fun?
Marc:Go see that show.
Marc:It's something.
Marc:It's like a beautiful, hot-rodded vaudeville.
Marc:Go see Oh Hello.
Marc:All right?
Marc:You can go to ohhellobroadway.com.
Marc:Jeff Tate is going to be here momentarily.
Marc:Last night at the comedy store, I was talking to some dude.
Marc:Some guy kind of cornered me, fan, but it was nice to talk to him.
Marc:Australian fella.
Marc:And I had to pee.
Marc:I like talking to the fans and, you know, try to make some time.
Marc:But this guy was talking and talking.
Marc:I'm like, I got to pee.
Marc:And finally, I just said, hey, man, I got it.
Marc:I got to piss.
Marc:And this guy just looked at me and goes, all right, dude, kill it.
Marc:Is that really the right?
Marc:Does that signal the end of that term of that phrase?
Marc:Kill it.
Marc:Am I really going to kill it peeing?
Marc:Am I going to nail it?
Marc:Am I going to do it out of the box?
Marc:i might have done that a little anyways jeff tate funny dude ohio dude his most recent comedy album again is now available you can check out his tour dates at justanotherclown.com and this is my friend and me my friend jeff tate chatting like a couple of comics
Marc:Where the fuck did I... I met you the first time at Go Bananas, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The next time I was there when you were there was the weekend I found out my separation was a divorce.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:You were a sad sack guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We were driving around.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:For a while.
Marc:You were in trouble.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that was when I... See, I didn't even remember that first one that you were there.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, the first one was a very...
Guest:The first one was interesting because it was like the first moment where I thought I could be a comedian.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I did, you know, you're Marc Maron.
Guest:So I did, I had my guest set, my seven minutes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I front loaded it with all whatever political social commentary jokes I had at the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:and then i just started talking about my wife and her parents and stuff and my brother was in the back and he said that that was when you came out of the green room yeah so it's like i was like i tried to do all this uh the mark maron influenced material yeah and then i just started talking about my own dumb life and and then and then so i i get off stage and you're back in the green room and then when you get introduced after the feature you walk by me and in the room you just go good show man and i was like holy shit i might be able to be a comedian i
Marc:oh i hope i didn't mislead you jeff well i mean those guys certainly that that shit about the fucking wife and stuff that was gonna that was gonna hit home yeah i remember you like you were in it you're like it was really happening yeah yeah but then when i go back that's when we went to the creation museum and created that classic wtf me you and ryan yeah and some girl right yeah it was that girl that ryan was saying from baltimore
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Megan, I think.
Marc:Yeah, she was nice.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, she was smart and nice, and I couldn't understand it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Look at the fuck.
Marc:Yeah, that was a great day, but you were feeling bad.
Marc:So that means you started doing comedy in when?
Marc:2003, maybe.
Marc:Early 2003.
Guest:And you grew up in Ohio?
Guest:Sort of.
Guest:I mean, I moved there when I was 12.
Guest:I moved there in 1991.
Guest:What was in Philadelphia?
Guest:My ex-wife's parents.
Guest:So I started comedy, and then at the very beginning of 2004, I think, something happened.
Guest:Her mom took a health turn, and so she wanted to go out there and be near them.
Guest:So we just moved out there and lived there for a year and a half.
Guest:Her mom got better.
Guest:We moved back to Cincinnati.
Marc:everything fell apart i met you then we moved then we had to move back to philadelphia for a little while because she was working for her dad and then we moved to la and then we split and then i then i saw you again that's right it was now it's sort of coming back together the disastrous la run yeah oh man all right so wait so let's let's walk through it so because ohio to me is a very bizarre place but you didn't you you moved there when you were 12 from where
Guest:Southern Illinois was the place I lived right before then.
Guest:I was born in Inglewood.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right out here?
Guest:Yeah, out here.
Guest:In that hospital that became a soundstage.
Guest:Someone told me it's where I was born in the hospital that Scrubs was filmed in.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:It's that hospital?
Marc:Is that the one where they do children's hospital?
Guest:I think so, yeah.
Guest:I think so.
Marc:I'm not positive.
Marc:This is secondhand.
Marc:I like it.
Marc:Add it to the Jeff Tate mythology.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's what happened.
Marc:This is now a soundstage where you were born.
Guest:And then we lived around Southern California until I was like five.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Then we moved to up near Modesto, a place called Turlock.
Guest:Why?
Marc:What was going on?
Guest:My dad's a minister.
Marc:Get the fuck.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What kind?
Guest:All of them.
Guest:When I was born, it was Church of Christ, like the no music Church of Christ, the very fundamentalist Church of Christ.
Guest:Then we switched to the Christian church, which sounds generic.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But that is a specific version of Christianity.
Guest:Just Christian.
Guest:yeah but a christian church yeah but it's it's their their bylaws and their dogma yeah it's different from other like church of god and assemblies of god yeah so we were in the christian church for a while then we when we moved to uh cincinnati yeah uh we we started going to a church that was more non-denominational like unitarian yeah
Guest:no it was still uh still christiany it was like non-denominational pentecostal like there was like speaking in tongues and stuff very weird but it was vague it's still jesus oriented vague yeah yeah it's still very not affiliated yeah is what you're saying yeah it was like a one-off yeah like a mom and pop
Marc:The more I find out about the ministers and getting into the ministry and being a preacher, it was all kind of mom and pop.
Marc:You don't have to be ordained, right?
Guest:No, that's the interesting thing about being a minister.
Guest:That's one of the things that has fucked me up was because my parents didn't believe in psychiatrists and stuff and therapists.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that's a weird blind spot in religion is mental health.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because they have the faith and the Jesus and the God.
Marc:Well, if you're a Christian scientist, they don't let you get surgery.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You can't go to a doctor.
Guest:So they...
Guest:But my parents thought those people were crazy.
Guest:If you fucked yourself up, you went to a doctor.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But I would start having panic attacks when I was 11.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, the earthquake in San Francisco broke me.
Guest:I had weird survivor's guilt.
Guest:We lived in Olympia, Washington at the time, but I saw it happen on television.
Guest:I was watching the baseball game.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:and i just saw like that was it like once that happened and my parents were fascinated by it because they were there my mom's from uh the bay area yeah uh pacifica yeah and they met in berkeley in like 72 my parents did yeah were they were they uh they were like the only squares in berkeley in 72 my mom went to uc berkeley from 64 to 67 and doesn't know any of the cool stuff
Guest:none none she just missed it she remembers uh she remembers there being a bus that would park on the quad and it would make her have to like walk around it yeah to get to class and she would just be like why don't these people just go to class but it was like was it that was kesey's bus it was prankster yeah it was the merry pranksters yeah oh she just missed bypassed it yeah she's walking by like who are these idiots they're like oh that's everybody oh you were so close to having an interesting childhood yeah
Marc:In a fun way, maybe.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Hippies can go bad, too.
Marc:But I would have had a less interesting adulthood.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I feel like.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Hippies fucked up their kids in a whole different way.
Marc:The Jesus discipline, whatever the hell you grew up in, the no discipline fucking weed in the house thing, that doesn't always pan out either.
Marc:No, no, no.
Guest:There's a very real chance I could have turned into Alex P. Keaton, the guy from Family Ties, Michael J. Fox, where his parents were hippie liberals.
Yeah.
Marc:So wait, so you're growing up with a preacher that just shifts denominations with the market, I guess.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Was that really it?
Marc:I suppose.
Guest:I mean, there's a couple of family jokes between me and my brother because we would hear the same.
Guest:Just two of you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We would hear the same sermons when we would switch towns.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:So it was almost like my dad wrote 75 sermons and got tired of writing new stuff.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So we would just switch towns.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, so really, he just didn't, he couldn't keep topical?
Marc:Yeah, why would you?
Marc:Why would you?
Marc:Do about a year in one place and then just fucking bolt?
Marc:So what was the goal, though?
Marc:Like, were you growing up like, was he trying to amass a flock?
Marc:I mean, how did it work?
Marc:Was he a funny guy?
Guest:no he had those uh no it wasn't funny the things he did that were funny uh were only funny to me and my brother right they weren't even funny to him not on purpose no never unintentional funny like every time he pulled his goddamn pitch pipe out of his pocket to start to lead worship that would just make us giggle yeah it was just so dumb but so did you grow up you had to go watch him in church did he did he have his own church how does it work
Guest:All the... Yeah, we had to go all the time.
Guest:It was easier for me to skip school than it was to skip church.
Guest:I would have to be on my deathbed sick to not go to church.
Guest:It was kind of a... Looking back, it was very bad.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:A lot of church.
Marc:But what...
Marc:But like when you go to another town or you'd move, how does it work?
Marc:Is there a pre-existing church?
Marc:Do you have to rent a church?
Marc:I don't understand the... Oh, no, there's a pre-existing.
Guest:Like the churches would... Oh, they hire you.
Marc:Yeah, you get hired.
Marc:You give me your resume.
Guest:Yeah, it was basically like these jobs are so very similar.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The jobs that... That we do?
Guest:Let me say the job that I have and the job that he had.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because neither one of us were ever really successful at it.
Guest:I can't compare him to you because you became successful.
Marc:I ended up in a garage though.
Marc:Yeah, but you're still successful.
Marc:Working from home.
Marc:It's hard to be a preacher from the house.
Marc:Well, not really.
Marc:I guess with a microphone, but you can't have people over.
Guest:Yeah, you can have your own, your AM talk hour.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:For that.
Guest:So he was a failure as a minister?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I mean, I don't believe in God.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:anymore and this is the first time i've publicly said that really yeah i i wrestle with it all the time in my head because i i what's saying it or believing uh believing and i try to fight uh like because it's it's comfortable yeah it's comfortable to say i believe in it but i don't i don't yeah and it's a there's so there's you don't use it
Marc:yeah i don't use it because it's like the god that they describe is such an asshole like why why do i have to have that well what what was the pressure like when you were growing up and you go these different churches and what you have to show up in your suit and be the the preacher's kid on sundays and oh yeah holy shit man the uh
Guest:The most trouble I could get into was if I made him look bad.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it didn't matter what it was.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It was just like an eight-year-old being eight with a bunch of other eight-year-olds.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He would lose his fucking mind on me.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because you embarrassed him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I wasn't representing him or whatever.
Guest:And Jesus.
Guest:Yeah, I guess.
Guest:But what about these other kids?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It didn't matter.
Guest:It was all perception-based.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did they make you believe in hell?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah, I was terrified of it until I read something on my own.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right?
Guest:And then when you realize... There's an interesting thing about the Bible.
Guest:It never says people go to hell.
Guest:Right.
Guest:The version of hell that everyone believes in is from that book by Dante.
Guest:Yeah, right, right.
Guest:It's not... The Inferno.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, there's a lake of fire or whatever where the angels that turned with Lucifer, where they go.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It says that people who die who are unbelievers are just separated from God, which is also a very...
Guest:logical uh like proof of reincarnation yeah like why wouldn't this be where you had to come sure if you fucked up the last one right but no hell but no hell like there's no hell in the there's no hell in the bible even like but when you were growing up did you have to pray every night now yeah really yeah yeah every night every meal uh all the time uh it was very oh boy it was not i'm starting to get a little panicky just think about it
Guest:is that what was that what your panic attacks were about that the earthquake and god no i just got i was just so sort of i suppose it was the fear of uh like it instills an unbelievable fear of dying yeah because it's such a fucking crapshoot right of anything right oh if you don't if you do anything wrong and then die you'll go to hell right right right then you see plus it was just you know i was like a sensitive kid i guess and
Guest:uh just watching those watching all those people die on television and then every night at six o'clock it would be on the news for another month or two right and they would watch it every night and we only you know we had one tv yeah and it just it was just that same footage over and over like there there is catastrophe yeah man there's like three things that pop into my head
Guest:very regularly that i have to kind of push out and it's the the top level of that two-story bridge yeah the bridge yeah uh the challenger explosion which i also saw live uh and dave dravecki's arm breaking uh that baseball player yeah yeah like those pop up in a loop indelible yeah yeah i remember what there was a period in uh
Marc:pop culture history where people would trade these horrible videos of shit, bad shit.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And there's a couple of them that took years to get the fuck out of my head.
Marc:I think I saw one of those.
Marc:The guy shooting himself?
Marc:People would put together those videos.
Marc:Everyone got it.
Marc:It was in a batch of whatever bullshit the freak who made it would give you.
Marc:Yeah, who gave you yours?
Marc:I don't know, man.
Marc:It was going around.
Marc:It had a collection of just horrible shit.
Marc:Like some dead kid being pulled out of a pool.
Marc:It was just like fucking an assault of morbidity.
Guest:And I don't know what that... Now it sounds... It is.
Guest:It was horrible.
Guest:I got mine from Jim Short.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:The comic.
Marc:Yeah, no, I know.
Marc:I might have gotten some source, because I met Short in San Francisco back when that shit was happening.
Marc:Patton Oswalt was in the loop.
Marc:There was just this dark shit around.
Marc:You know, there's weird magazines and just dark shit.
Marc:There was those Faces of Death videos.
Marc:Yeah, but those.
Guest:those were those were bad yeah but and i don't even remember if i watched when i had one but these were just bootleg videos of like fucking morbid shit that felt the bootleg ones felt worse well the faces of death was always something that was being filmed yeah right this felt like you were like sneaking like peeking through a window where the fuck they get this shit oh it was who knows
Marc:All right, so now you're a panicky kid.
Marc:You got a dad who's a minister.
Marc:The world is ending, and you're starting to freak out, and they don't help you.
Marc:Oh, that was the other thing was the rapture and the apocalypse and all that shit.
Guest:Is that real to you?
Guest:Yeah, but it was a constant...
Guest:It was like a countdown that you couldn't see, where any moment... And they would say that you would hear the trumpets blast from the heavens, and then all the good people would ascend to heaven.
Guest:Bolt into the air.
Guest:And so it was like... It was weirdly...
Guest:Like if I would hear music with horns in it, just out of nowhere, it would startle me.
Guest:Like I would jump.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:It would turn out to be like Sam Cooke or something from a car at the stoplight.
Marc:Was your dad that kind of preacher?
Guest:Yeah, he became more of that as he kept moving along.
Guest:That was more when we were in the Assemblies of God and the Church of God.
Guest:What is that one?
Marc:What's the Assemblies of God?
Guest:Assemblies of God is very Pentecostal, speaking in tongues, holy roller.
Guest:Did he speak in tongues?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And my mom did, too.
Guest:My mom admits...
Guest:That she was peer pressured into faking it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my dad won't admit that he ever did it.
Guest:My dad is just like, I never did that.
Guest:Never spoke in tongues.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm like, I remember.
Guest:I remember you doing it.
Marc:It's like gibberish, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's kind of creepy.
Marc:It's all shabalas and stuff.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And it all sounds the same.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And now like-
Marc:Yeah, yeah, it's very easy to mimic.
Marc:There's a style.
Marc:You're going to speak in tongues like someone speaking through you.
Marc:Make sure it sounds like everyone else who does it.
Guest:My youth pastor, when I was 17, his advice for me to speak in tongues was to just fake it until it became real.
Marc:So it's just a weird sort of it's not really speaking in tongues.
Marc:It's just like a device that, you know, is relieving.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't even know if it's relieving.
Marc:What is it?
Marc:What is it?
Marc:What's supposed to be happening when that happens?
Guest:The Holy Spirit has taken over your body.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And now you're speaking in the language of the Holy Spirit and the language of the Lord.
Guest:Which is gibberish.
Guest:Apparently, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it just sounds... It's just symbolic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You got to warn me if you're going to do that again.
Guest:It gets... I get a little panicky again.
Guest:Like, every time you do it, I try to hide my cigarettes.
Yeah.
Marc:that's it huh i'm doing it yeah i'm doing it that's all it takes it's a trick so he became more fire and brimstone when he realized that's the way you close the show yeah oh that's a good closer yeah yeah scare the shit out of people was he scary uh probably more so to me yeah than uh the people in the church but he wasn't he wasn't a whack job minister
Marc:I don't know, man.
Marc:No, but I mean, he wasn't like you'd see him on the fucking pulpit, and you were like, well, who is that monster?
Guest:Yeah, no, you wouldn't do that.
Guest:No, that's good.
Guest:He was...
Guest:I don't even know how to describe this.
Guest:I'm for sure not going to tell my parents I was on the show.
Guest:You're right.
Guest:My mom is much more Christian than my dad.
Guest:Right.
Guest:My dad seems like one of those guys who was like, well, this will work.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I could do this.
Guest:I need an angle.
Guest:I need a hustle.
Guest:And then we just kept moving.
Guest:And also there's like...
Guest:my dad's my dad's parents weren't good parents his dad was a real dickhead yeah and and was like very resentful towards my dad right and so my dad grew up with like nobody really like giving a shit about him right so someone had to so it turned into so he did it yeah
Guest:that's interesting and now it has turned into like i'm like i've been reading a bunch of books and he's it really seems like he's just got like that narcissistic personality disorder oh really yeah and that's one of the things that explains the 15 or 16 months in each town because that's about how long a group of people can take a narcissist yeah oh that's interesting my dad did that too like when he was moving from town to town working as a doctor
Marc:So it's narcissistic.
Marc:It's not really a depressive cycle like your dad never got depressed.
Guest:No.
Guest:Well, it's narcissism is a reaction to depression and loneliness and a lack of self-worth and self-esteem.
Guest:So.
Guest:that's why that's why any like i don't know if you're i don't know if your dad does it i i think so from listening to the show and watching right watching the show but my dad can't take criticism at all right like it doesn't matter how big or small the fuck up is it's always someone else's fault oh yeah because as soon as he admits that he that he did something wrong the whole thing starts to fall apart right the whole house of cards i think that my dad eventually couldn't help but take criticism and then it did fall apart
Guest:well yeah well my dad is not he's still fighting it yeah is he still a minister he's too old now he uh
Guest:teaches a class sometimes like a sunday school class right just a couple he stuck with it for the whole run of his life the whole run he stuck with it the whole run of my life yeah like i i still find out about jobs and stuff he had that i had no idea oh really minister jobs no he was uh he was like a bailiff for a while oh you mean after you grew up no before before i was born before he met my mom like he didn't go into the ministry until
Guest:he was 32.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so before that, he like, he worked on the railroad.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was a teacher.
Guest:He was a bartender.
Guest:He was a bailiff.
Guest:He told me a funny, he told me a story that was accidentally hilarious.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Where he also, he worked for a while at a furniture store where he was in charge of, uh, giving people credit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For the furniture.
Guest:This was in like 1961.
Guest:So there weren't computers and stuff.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I was like, how would you decide, uh,
Guest:whether or not you could give somebody credit and he was like there was a list of questions we could ask like the first one was uh what does your husband do for a living and the second one and i was like hang on the first one like you don't even realize how absurd and hilarious that sentence is that the that what that means is that they train the credit guy at the furniture store they're gonna be like okay the wife is gonna come in yeah and do pick out the furniture so you have to find out what her husband does for a living and it just never it just never thought about it again how
Marc:bananas that sentence is what it's probably timely yeah but it's still like he just in 40 years or whatever he never went back and thought about it like that's probably not so so what happened so you grew up in illinois and then you like you went what'd you do in in high school were you a fuck up but it doesn't sound like it sounds like you get along with your parents all right
Marc:I get along with him okay.
Guest:Now that I understand my dad's brain chemistry a little bit, it's like you're either there to feed his ego or you're a threat.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's interesting.
Guest:I'm much more of a threat to him than my brother, and that's why I always got...
Guest:The brunt of everything.
Marc:Where'd you fucking pick that up?
Marc:That's pretty good.
Marc:Because that's a narcissism thing?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You either feed their ego or you're a threat.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Interesting.
Marc:What book is this?
Guest:This book was called The Narcissist Next Door.
Guest:Hmm.
Guest:And it's very fascinating.
Guest:And it's one of those, like, Gladwell books where it seems like it's going to be super boring, but that guy is such a good writer.
Marc:And also, but if you're, like, sitting there going, like, that's my dad, he has a little more relevance.
Guest:I recommend it to read right now because the first two chapters are about Donald Trump, and the book was written, like, six years ago.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No kidding.
Marc:The Narcissist Next Door.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Now I'm going to look.
Marc:But I like that.
Marc:You're either a threat.
Marc:Or you feed his ego.
Guest:There's a lot of people we come across in our business where that's completely true.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Have you ever done radio and had a bad experience?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Usually that's because you were a threat.
Guest:Well, that personality.
Marc:The local, the regional shock jock
Marc:With the most market shares, those are always megalomaniacal, narcissistic dudes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I'm generalizing, and I don't want to offend any of them.
Marc:Some of those guys are good radio guys, but that's true.
Marc:If they feel like you're a threat right away, it's going to be shitty.
Marc:They're going to fucking undermine you.
Marc:That's interesting.
Marc:So you're running around with your minister dad, and then you level off.
Marc:Do you go to college?
Marc:What do you do?
Guest:I tried college a couple of times.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I believe I have enough credits to almost be a sophomore.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's always that option, Jeff.
Marc:You can always just pick it back up.
Guest:Time to go back.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know what I was doing because I was majoring in journalism in 2002.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I quit college because I started doing open mics.
Guest:I was like, I just want to do that.
Guest:So I left one dying industry and jumped into another one.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:The comedy's thriving.
Guest:It is now.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But in 2003 was when it was still like death rattling its way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, where would you start?
Guest:Cincinnati.
Guest:I started at Go Bananas.
Guest:Oh, that was your home club.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's a good club, though.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was a great place to start.
Guest:There was like 12 comics total when I started.
Marc:What compelled you, man?
Marc:Who were your guys?
Marc:I mean, why were you going to do comedy?
Marc:this part is going to be dumb.
Marc:No.
Marc:One of them's you.
Marc:Oh, thank you.
Marc:You actually knew me in 2002?
Marc:I knew you in 1994.
Guest:1993.
Guest:What, from Conan?
Guest:From Short Attention Span Theater.
Guest:Get the fuck out of here.
Guest:Me and my brother would get home from school, and it was on... It might have even right when it became Comedy Central, or maybe when it was still the Comedy Channel.
Guest:No, it was Comedy Central.
Guest:We would watch that...
Guest:Like, I think Dennis Regan hosted it for a while.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then there was you.
Guest:Joe Bolster and Mark S. Allen, like that weird DJ guy from Sacramento.
Guest:Now I feel bad because I just remember Dennis Regan and you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But we would watch you on that show, and we would see... Kightliner.
Marc:Did you do the A-list?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I saw that.
Marc:I did it.
Marc:It was me and Amazing Jonathan.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:And they used to put the headliner first.
Yeah.
Marc:And then you wait and it was like he had done, you know, I remember it because the guy comes backstage.
Marc:He's like, we're going to get you right up as soon as we clean up the blood because he used to close with cutting his arm off.
Marc:And I think it was who was hosting it.
Marc:Richard Lewis, I think, was hosting it when he was a drunkie.
Marc:Oh, boy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you knew who I was.
Marc:I resonated with you because we both have narcissistic dads.
Guest:Yeah, I guess.
Guest:I mean, I didn't know why you resonated with me, but I liked your style, man.
Guest:I remember when this show started.
Guest:I got a text from my friend Dave, and he was like, Maren's got a podcast.
Guest:So I started listening to it right away.
Guest:And there was all these times where it was like, well, I met you, and it didn't go well and whatever.
Guest:And I would just listen and be like, man, if I ever get to do that show, I can say it has always gone well.
Guest:It was from the moment.
Guest:Me and Singer joke that we're like penance.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Somehow you're paying everyone back.
Guest:By you guys?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When did you start boozing?
Guest:Well, I started, I drank heavily until I was like 22, and then maybe 23, and then I quit.
Guest:I quit when I started doing, I quit when Mitch died.
Guest:Did you work with Mitch?
Guest:No, I never met him or anything.
Guest:I just, when he died, I was like, oh, I really want to be a comic, and if I just let all this, if I just keep feeding my addictions...
Guest:then I'll die.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because I know how I am with drugs and alcohol.
Marc:That catastrophic thinking working in your favor.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I started again when I got divorced.
Guest:And I quit again on September 21st of last year.
Guest:I got...
Guest:Today's April 21st.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:October, November, December, January.
Marc:Seven months.
Marc:Really?
Marc:That's fucking good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, so when you're at the club in Ohio and you're just like, you know, kind of, you got a home club, were you on shows with people?
Marc:Did you meet everybody?
Marc:I mean, because you're friends with Stanhope too now, right?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That thing...
Marc:Who were the guys that you were watching?
Marc:How were you learning?
Guest:I was learning from Eddie Gosling was a guy that I saw come through the club, and I just couldn't believe how fucking hilarious he was.
Guest:When he was fat?
Guest:Just after.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I worked with him.
Marc:He middled for me in Texas when he was big.
Marc:I think I've told this story on the fucking show before.
Marc:He's driving me around.
Marc:We're going out to get barbecue, and he has this little Toyota truck.
Marc:And every time we'd turn, the horn would honk.
Marc:And I was like, what the fuck is wrong with your car?
Marc:Why does the horn keep honking?
Marc:He goes, my fat.
Marc:So he just had a... It was pressing up against the wheel.
Guest:He had a car that didn't fit?
Guest:Yeah, he did.
Guest:I think if my car stopped fitting, I've bought new jeans before because of my weight fluctuations.
Guest:But if my car stopped fitting, I'd probably really start to work on it.
Marc:But he looks good.
Marc:He lost all that weight.
Marc:So you saw him and he just killed?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've probably only fallen out of my chair laughing twice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And one of them was him.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:I learned about trying to be myself on stage from you and Stan Hope.
Guest:Right.
Guest:and the idea well also you when i got divorced i think like that weekend singer was singer had that girl in town so there was some element of uh he was too busy to take care of me so it's like andy was any uh andy was busy with her so you were just trapped so he like kind of matched us up yeah and you talked me out of buying an el camino which was probably good
Guest:and uh you made me do you made me do a guest set on sunday on that sunday night the day you got divorced like three days later and i was like i just don't none none of this works like nothing's good anymore right and you go just do like 10 minutes i go i'm gonna fucking bomb and then you said do you think i care if it goes well
Guest:I just want you to know you can get back up there.
Marc:God damn it.
Guest:And it was very... I'm not a bad guy.
Guest:No.
Guest:No, it was very helpful.
Guest:Did it go well?
Marc:No.
Marc:But it proved to me that I could still walk up there.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's horrible when you got the fear or you're all broken.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's the worst.
Guest:We got married in 2006 and split up in 2010.
Guest:So we were together from when I was 22 to 32.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And we separated on my birthday.
Guest:Nice.
Guest:My 32nd birthday.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:And what was the problem?
Marc:I mean, did she have higher expectations out of you?
Guest:Well, I'm going to say...
Guest:right now after going to like seeing a therapist every week for the last, uh, 15, 16 months since last January right now, right now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Since last January, I see, I see this lady every week.
Guest:Uh, if I'm on the road, we talk on the phone, she'll do phoners.
Guest:Uh,
Guest:And I actually usually see her twice a week.
Guest:So this is a new thing for you.
Guest:Yeah, well, I don't want to be like I was.
Guest:Like a fucking disaster.
Guest:And she's here in L.A.?
Guest:No, my therapist is in Cincinnati.
Guest:Are you still living there?
Guest:I still technically live in Cincinnati.
Guest:I'm in L.A.
Guest:way more than I'm in Cincinnati.
Guest:But this is like, I have an emotional, it was all that panic attack stuff.
Guest:And it stems from that.
Guest:After six or seven months of having panic attacks all the time,
Guest:My parents finally decided to take me to a therapist, but were religious, so they didn't go to like a doctor when they went to another minister.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And the thing about ministers is you don't have to be ordained.
Guest:Right.
Guest:The jobs are so similar between our job and their job where it's just you could just decide to be a minister.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then if people believe you, then you're a minister.
Guest:Right.
Right.
Guest:And that's it.
Guest:You don't have to go to college or anything.
Guest:You could take a class, but why would you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So what was the psychiatric experience?
Guest:The first one was nothing.
Guest:My dad came with me into the room, which is not how therapy is done.
Guest:It's supposed to be a safe space.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Where you don't.
Guest:Do you think he was the main problem?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I do.
Guest:Well, it was... Because I got... So, the main problem really was... So, I say to this guy what the problem is, which was that I just... I see all these people die in my head.
Guest:Like, we watch it on TV all the time.
Guest:So, now it's just in my head, and I just can't handle...
Guest:all of this and but i kind of i probably uh said it in a way where it's like they're they're always watching this and so the next thing that i hear is not from him my dad just my dad just kind of roughly goes oh so it's all my fault yeah it's like that that right there is the problem right
Guest:is, no, it's not your fucking fault, dude.
Guest:You're watching the news.
Guest:You didn't make that happen.
Guest:Why the fuck?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Why can't I have a feeling?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so, like, learning about this, like, myself, my mom, and my brother are just... We were sort of raised to be unbelievably codependent on him for our emotions.
Guest:Interesting.
Guest:And so, getting around that, that's why he...
Guest:Like, so, uh, he, he, we have our times now where it's very volatile because I now am trying to establish emotional boundaries with him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And man, that's a threat when I just don't cave.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's, it's like, it's all this, like this helping me because I don't know that I ever quite framed it like that, that like, you know, fortunately for me, you know, my dad is scared of me now.
Yeah.
Marc:wow yeah but you know took a tv show and a book and success because they ultimately when they're like this they only see you as sort of this weird kind of annoying extension of them that they need to behave a certain way and and and when you don't you know it's it's it's like part of themselves is rebelling it's a weird fucking thing yeah it's so and and you know like they don't want you to succeed they don't want you to have your own life they don't want you to have your own personality really because that's all a threat to them yeah
Marc:It's fucked up.
Marc:I never really thought about it that way.
Marc:It's either a threat or you feed their ego, and that's that.
Guest:He still thinks I'm a kid.
Guest:He still treats me like I'm 14.
Guest:But undermines you, right?
Guest:Yeah, completely.
Guest:So I just don't.
Guest:When he's mad about something, I don't.
Guest:Hang up.
Guest:Yeah, I just let it, like, this is about you.
Guest:This is not about me.
Guest:Yeah, I just don't even, like, I just don't even take the call.
Guest:Well, I try to, like, I still technically live in Cincinnati because I'm trying to help my mom.
Guest:Like, my dad's back is so fucked up that he can't really.
Guest:They're together, though.
Guest:Yeah, they're together.
Guest:Oh, so you've got to deal with them.
Guest:yeah i gotta deal with him uh my dad he can't really move around very much so he needs help yeah but he's the guy that doesn't uh ever want help like not that he doesn't want help he wants like he doesn't care if you'll do everything for him he just doesn't want to he doesn't want you to know that he needs it yeah because that's now now he's vulnerable right interesting
Guest:Just be old, man.
Guest:Stop trying to fight it.
Guest:You're 76.
Guest:What the fuck?
Marc:Let it go.
Marc:Who are you fooling?
Marc:I know, dude.
Marc:They're stubborn.
Marc:So this is interesting, though.
Marc:So you actually hit the wall, like what?
Marc:Just before you got sober and you're like, I got to get my shit together.
Marc:What was the cathartic moment that made you decide to go to therapy?
Guest:It was another breakup where this time I found out she'd been...
Guest:Like, she's, like, together with, like, she's already married to the guy she kept secret from me for a year.
Guest:The entire last year we were together, she was friends with this dude that I did not know about.
Guest:Never heard his fucking name.
Guest:And I would just work the road and stuff.
Marc:She was just stringing you along?
Marc:She was having a thing with him?
Guest:I guess.
Guest:I have no idea.
Guest:It really broke me up, and I kind of had to hit that point where I was like...
Guest:I decided to hit the, like, I had to shatter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just completely.
Guest:And I figured out, and so it kind of goes back to my marriages.
Guest:I was absolutely a better husband than my dad was.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But that doesn't mean I was good at it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That doesn't mean I was a good husband.
Guest:What happened when you two went to L.A.
Guest:?
Guest:We just ran out of money.
Guest:I seek out relationships that feel normal to me, whether they're good or not.
Guest:And so she would kind of, my wife would kind of treat me the way my dad would.
Guest:My last girlfriend would kind of treat me the way my dad would.
Guest:and it just felt normal yeah but not good not good no yeah just comfortable yeah yeah so comfortable but only familiar it's not comfortable familiar yeah right right it's like when you it's like when you're like ah i don't want to be on the road like i always want to go home when i'm on the road yeah but that fucking bed at the hampton inn is way better than my bed yeah so what is this shit in my head is like i just want to sleep on my own bed yeah my bed is garbage compared to some of these hotel beds i get
Guest:I took a total flip on that.
Guest:I'm so thrilled to fucking get into a hotel room.
Guest:I'm like, I don't got to do shit in here.
Guest:Yeah, I try to keep my stuff neat so that I'm not... I learned a lot of this from the girl that tours with me.
Guest:She's ahead of me in therapy and stuff.
Guest:She's helped me with emotional boundaries and stuff.
Guest:She's very supportive.
Guest:Her name is Emma Arnold.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she's a hilarious comedian, but also just very emotionally...
Guest:Smart.
Guest:Her EQ is very high.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it's very helpful.
Guest:Like when I'm on the phone with my dad and she's around, she can hear me not maintaining my boundaries.
Guest:And so then when I'll like, when I'll hang up, she'll be like, you let him get to you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Fucking guy just gets to me.
Guest:No, you don't have to let him... You decide whether he gets to you.
Guest:It's hard.
Guest:Yeah, it is hard, but it's nice to have somebody around who knows, who can help and be supportive.
Guest:And she's very supportive and helpful with that.
Guest:And I just was emotionally closed off.
Guest:I couldn't handle the guilt and the fear of hell and earthquakes and all that stuff.
Guest:So I didn't know what to do.
Guest:There was no real help in church or...
Guest:i didn't even know about like real therapists yeah like i think popular culture and the views on things are very fucking uh harmful like i'm not breaking any ground but yeah the idea of going to a therapist and all that stuff about getting getting in touch with your emotions in the 80s they called it your feminine side yeah like that's garbage
Marc:That pushes people away from it.
Marc:Well, I think the weird thing is, and I didn't know this about you because I don't know you that well, is that ultimately what happens when you grow up like this is that you're sort of denied a sort of comfortable sense of self.
Marc:So you have this weird fluctuating thing that kind of needs to latch on to charismatic people or people that are familiar because of your triggers and shit, and you don't have any ability to maintain boundaries, and you can't really fall back on anything.
Marc:You're just falling.
Marc:Falling.
Guest:yeah you know yeah yeah you're trust falling into nobody right exactly you know and it's just sort of like well i always can just go and like oh be sad yeah yeah and if i would trust fall and a girl would just like like in this metaphor if a girl was walking by which is like hey you're falling i'm like all right let's get married yeah exactly you're the only one that caught me right exactly yeah
Marc:I mean, I definitely relate to that because it's easier.
Marc:And your self-esteem is in a place where you're not going to get it from yourself.
Marc:No, it's based entirely on how other people feel about me.
Marc:It's kind of mind-blowing because I don't know if I've looked at it.
Marc:I've done the homework around my father's situation because my dad was volatile.
Marc:So the one thing I got from him in that falling thing is I was always angrily falling.
Marc:I choose anger over sadness 90% of the time.
Guest:Me, too.
Guest:I did that, too.
Guest:Like, anger was my go to emotion.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because that first of all, that's the only emotion I ever really saw my dad show.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I learned how to express that one.
Guest:And that meant that every emotion I had would be expressed through anger.
Guest:right right it would start at anger and then work its way down to oh no you know what i'm just lonely or hungry right sure yeah tired or whatever just all this garbage because i did not know how to process my own emotions or identify them because to stop feeling guilty i started to just not have those like i tried to not have that guilty emotion yeah
Guest:But you can't pick and choose.
Guest:It was just all of them.
Guest:I just kind of boxed them all up.
Guest:So are you doing the recovery thing too?
Guest:What do you mean?
Guest:Are you going to meetings?
Guest:Every now and then I go.
Guest:I don't...
Guest:I really enjoy the, let's say, camaraderie of it, of being like, okay, I'm not the only one that's doing this.
Guest:But I also don't feel like... I know how I drink, and I'm not a straight-up alcoholic.
Guest:I'm a binge alcoholic.
Guest:I don't wake up like, oh, I need a drink.
Guest:I just know that if I have one, there's a chance I'll have 40.
Guest:Yeah, it's going to go on a while.
Guest:Yeah, and I could still... It took a long time in my life to reach a place where it's like...
Guest:yeah i would love to be a guy that could have a glass of wine at dinner or two yeah and have that and just know that that could be it yeah and you know four times four out of five times it is that is all it is but that other time it just goes off the rails and then it's 9 a.m and i'm still drinking smoking cigarettes in my brother's kitchen yeah he doesn't even smoke but i'm just so drunk yeah he like he came down on your older brother younger uh-huh he's way more together than me yeah
Guest:But he bought a house, and he comes down on New Year's Eve.
Guest:Two years ago, that was the day I found out about the other dude.
Guest:This was like a week or two after we broke up, but New Year's Eve I found out about the other dude.
Guest:Big days for you finding out bad shit.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, it's easy to remember, thank God.
Guest:So whenever I get around to writing a book, I don't have to ballpark it.
Guest:so new year's day he comes down because he's got to go to work at like six in the morning and it's 5 30 in the morning and there are 14 bottles of beer empty in front of me and he comes down and he just goes oh this guy's back and i was like oh god damn it is that what i do like and that was the moment i was like i gotta go see a doctor like
Guest:this guy's back yeah because he had dealt with that for two years or three years after the divorce and then i started getting better and i started seeing this other girl and i stopped being such a mess yeah and then the minute it happened it was like i suddenly it stopped being chaos and it started being a pattern yeah yeah right right right i was like that was the first time sometimes only people outside you can see that shit yeah yeah and for when he said oh this guy's back
Guest:Like, I don't know if he knows how profound an impact that sentence had on me.
Guest:You can tell him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I'm sure I have, but I don't know.
Guest:Like, I don't know if it really registered.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because also we were raised in a way where we don't have very much.
Guest:Like, we kind of force ourselves sometimes to have, like...
Guest:weird emotional conversations just because we never have right right it's weird you know oh right so you're in it you're like oh it's too uncomfortable yeah yeah yeah and we just like kind of push right it out yeah yeah like it's it's almost like those weird moments on fraser when he and his brother have like like a real like when they stop talking about coffee yeah yeah yeah it just gets awkward yeah yeah
Guest:We do that.
Guest:And so when he said that, I was like, I just got to see a doctor.
Guest:Because he's right.
Guest:This guy is back.
Guest:And this guy wasted three or four years being drunk and blaming everyone else.
Guest:And I don't want to do that again.
Guest:But you were doing stand-up through all of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:As far as I knew.
Guest:Right?
Guest:I was drunk.
Guest:I was blackout drunk for some shows.
Guest:I was such a mess.
Guest:And I...
Guest:I kind of developed a style on stage that kind of lent itself to that.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Where it's a little loose already.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But I could have been better.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I could be so much better today if I hadn't done that, if I hadn't drank my way through.
Marc:I don't know if you should think that way.
Guest:No, I'm not.
Guest:I'm not.
Guest:I'm saying that I think that way to keep myself from doing it again.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Because it was easy to waste 32 through 36.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I don't want to waste 37 through 40, 41 or whatever.
Guest:Because I'm getting to that point.
Guest:in my career where if I do kick the bucket, I've now been doing this too long and I'm too old for people to be like, man, he was going to be something.
Guest:Right.
Marc:That window passed.
Marc:What did he do?
Marc:What is there to watch?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:He's got the one record.
Guest:Yeah, he had his shot.
Guest:How many records you got out?
Guest:Three.
Guest:I just released my third one.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I feel like I've gotten better since I quit drinking.
Guest:It's just...
Guest:This is also the longest I've ever tried to do the same set.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so it's getting tighter and better and more interesting.
Guest:I talk a lot about the religion and stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the getting away from it and all the shame they build into...
Guest:I don't know how long these usually go, but we haven't even got to the sex part.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All that religious shame built into sex and all that stuff.
Guest:Because I never got to take sex ed, so it was never... Well, how did it manifest itself?
Guest:It made me very boring.
Guest:To the point where I was bored.
Guest:Like, I thought...
Guest:I reached a point where I kind of thought sex was boring and chore-like because I didn't know that you could just get real fucking weird with it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And as soon as I had a... Well, what were you taught?
Marc:I mean, were you just taught to stay away from it or it was just for kids?
Marc:You just have kids?
Guest:Yeah, I was taught sex ed from a religious cassette tape series from James Dobson.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:And they never actually talk about... The family, what was it?
Marc:Focus on the family.
Marc:Focus on the family.
Guest:I haven't heard that name in a while.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, the focus on the family.
Guest:There should be like a follow-up, like a secular version that's focused on the clitoris.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Where you can actually learn things about sex.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because this one was not about... It never once...
Guest:talked about sex.
Guest:They never told you what it was.
Guest:They told you when and how to feel about it and why popular culture presents bad imagery and these things.
Guest:And, like, the only thing it really tells you about sex is that it's something that you do with your wife once you're married, which is there's no information in that sentence.
Guest:Right.
Guest:At all.
Guest:Yeah, none.
Guest:All you did was schedule it.
Guest:So you just had to figure it out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I figured it out from...
Guest:just i i don't know i don't think like my my ex-wife was raised very catholic so i like she wasn't particularly adventurous so it was a lot of face to face yeah yeah uh all right are you good yeah i'm good yeah all right yeah that's good see you in a week and it and then i had a like i had a weekend last year where i hooked up with somebody and uh she was very uh
Guest:Yeah, liberating.
Guest:She was very, let's say, progressive or whatever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Turns out it's fucking great, and it can be really weird and fun.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Just learning that.
Marc:Yeah, just learning that.
Marc:Just finally...
Marc:That's good.
Marc:37, it's a good time to learn.
Guest:Yeah, it's right on the cusp of what it could be.
Marc:But you're a fucking comic for a decade or more, and you listen to all these guys.
Marc:You've hung out with Stan Hope and Attell, probably.
Marc:I mean, at what point do you think we were all lying?
Guest:No, I've never met Attell and Stan Hope.
Guest:The stuff that Stan Hope did...
Guest:or would talk about was so weird yeah yeah yeah it's like yeah those are way too many steps away from where i'm at it's like it's like a fairy tale land some weird yeah yeah yeah like like i'm not on a scavenger hunt right i'm just trying to figure out how to have a nice time yeah how to have a nice time yeah so what i'm saying is my dad hit me enough that now i kind of want uh her to yeah whoever that is hit me with something a remote control is a good size and weight and usually nearby
Marc:Oh, no.
Guest:Well, that's all right, as long as you're okay with it.
Guest:No, it's unbelievable.
Guest:Your dad punched you?
Guest:Every now and then.
Guest:I've been hit with a bunch of things.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:He was one of those guys?
Guest:Whatever was nearby?
Guest:Whatever was nearby.
Guest:He had a paddle for a while, like a big...
Guest:piece of wood with a handle no shit yeah it was just for hitting just for hitting kids mostly just for hitting me my brother can remember my brother can remember getting hit with that paddle twice and I can remember getting hit with that paddle more than that on my birthday
Guest:Like on my ninth birthday, my eleventh, like just various times where I'll fuck up.
Guest:I got a lot.
Guest:I was confrontational.
Guest:And I grew up to be confrontational.
Guest:Again with the dates.
Guest:The memorable dates.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Well, it was all... New Year's birthday is not good for you.
Guest:Well, let's understand that there's been other breakups and other times I got hit that were just on random days, and those are gone.
Guest:I don't even remember those.
Guest:But my dad was so volatile and angry all the time that when he would start yelling at my mom or my brother...
Guest:I would kind of jump in.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it was... Like, this is weird.
Guest:Like, I cried so hard, like, six months ago because I saw... I caught the end of Good Will Hunting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I hadn't seen that since I started to come to terms with some of this other stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I also hadn't seen it since Robin died.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And there's that scene when he's like, I would always pick the wrench because fuck him.
Guest:And it was like, I never... Like, he never laid it out.
Guest:Like, which one do you want to get hit with?
Guest:But I understand that...
Guest:Like, that idea where it's like, this isn't even about... Like, he's yelling at him.
Guest:And I'm just like, well, fuck this guy.
Guest:And I would just get in the way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was so... Like, it just really broke me down.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:This is an exciting time for you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, I...
Guest:You know, I can focus on the fact that it took me this long, but I'd rather focus on the fact that I figured it out at all.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or that I at least figured out that there's something to figure out.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So you're in this rebirth mode.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Everything's new.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, first time.
Guest:It's very interesting.
Guest:I notice my mistakes.
Guest:My turnaround time is a lot faster.
Guest:If I do get upset about something or I fly off the handle, it happens way less now than it used to.
Guest:And also...
Guest:i've now like there are times when it'll take me like 10 minutes before i'm like i fucked up like i should not have reacted like that right and i just so desperately i spent so much time trying not to be like my dad that i never that now i'm trying to figure out what that means like what that means for me being myself like
Guest:just not being like him is not like that's not an identity that's right yeah who are you i'm a reaction to my father yeah yeah i'm the new domino's pizza remember how they apologized because it used to be garbage yeah i'm that i'm still not very good but i'm better than the old one no i i can relate to that and you see because like the the reaction and the wiring is so deep that you know you can identify him in you yeah you know when it happens
Marc:And you can see all their shortcomings and how they fucked up.
Marc:And you can see that shit in you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So I guess the only trick is what you're sort of doing.
Marc:By having boundaries, you can at least accept him for what he is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And disarm that.
Marc:And then maybe accept the things in you that are like him and try to change them because you can't change that motherfucker, right?
Marc:No, you can't.
Guest:And I can't.
Guest:And it makes me crazy.
Marc:to try like i don't even no i can't and they'll suck you into that too because they play those games with you even like they're like what i know is that like if they're feeling shitty they'll fucking drag you right down oh yeah yeah because if they feel shitty and you don't it's your threat that's oh that's a really good system
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So it lends itself to codependency.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I never thought about it.
Marc:I love that thing.
Guest:My brother and I would get, well, it would be me, but we would get in trouble.
Guest:We would get yelled at for goofing around when he was in a bad mood.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But the same, it was so unpredictable because the same behavior an hour before would have gotten no response at all.
Guest:But now he's pissed off about something.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So now goofing around is an attack on him.
Guest:Right.
Guest:We're making fun of him for being angry or whatever when we're still just fucking eight years old, man.
Marc:This is sort of mind-blowing.
Marc:So there was no variation in... There were no prolonged depressive periods or anything like that?
Marc:From him?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not that I can tell, no.
Guest:Not that I can remember.
Guest:I mean, he'll only recently admit that...
Guest:his back hurting so much right is depressing right but that's it like he'll be like it's just you know it's been a rough year so you're like oh you think this has just been a year right your back is hurt for a year you've been like this as long as i can remember and you say that to him can you make no i'm not gonna say that to him i can make him laugh but not uh
Guest:It depends on what it is.
Guest:He tried to stop my show in January because I was talking about Trump and that he liked Trump.
Guest:And he got up, Echo Bananas, in the back of the room and was trying to get waitresses or the manager to get me off stage.
Guest:And I had 20 minutes left.
Guest:Like the only time he ever gets offended at stuff I do on stage, I've talked about him being a bad husband, a bad minister, a bad father, a bad Christian.
Guest:The only thing that pisses him off is when I make it sound like he's a bad Republican.
Marc:Well, that's really mad.
Marc:That's interesting.
Marc:Cause like, because it's like part of him knows that that's probably true and it is about him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He loves the attention.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Oh boy.
Guest:The amount, like if he could sell merch after my show, he would fucking do that in a heartbeat.
Yeah.
Guest:He loves to stand in the hallway when people leave and be like, oh, I'm his dad.
Guest:They're like, that's you from the jokes.
Guest:They don't care if it's bad.
Guest:Well, I learned something kind of heavy a couple weeks ago from my dad.
Guest:We were talking about his dad and one of his brothers.
Guest:We went to see his brother, and he was talking about how his brother got it way less than he did.
Guest:and his like his dad loose like with no irony or self-awareness at all is like he just goes yeah billy never got it like i got it it was you know once i left the house he loosened up a lot and has just zero awareness of the fact that that's exactly what happened to my brother also yeah like how my like oh you did exactly the same thing right but he and i said something about his
Guest:about his dad i was like i was like you know that's wrong right like the way that your dad treated you was wrong and he goes no no fran he goes francis was really smart he was a really smart man and i was like oh shit you think that because he was smart he couldn't be wrong you think that being wrong means you're not smart
Guest:and that that just suddenly made a lot of puzzle pieces click the trump thing where like oh i just think you're wrong about trump you think that that means i think you're an idiot right that you don't know anything right i just think you're wrong about that right and i think i think smart people can be wrong all the time right i don't think it has any but also the fact is like this thing that i read about how
Marc:You have to believe your parents are great when you're really young because they're your parents.
Marc:And if they're fucked up and you feel fucked up about it, all you can do is blame yourself.
Marc:And that's where that wiring comes from.
Marc:That's how you feel insecure and fucked up is that you were denied something or abused in some way and you think it's your fault.
Marc:So you try this dumb ass way of parenting yourself, which is just sort of like, I'm an asshole.
Marc:I'm an asshole.
Marc:I'm going to drink.
Marc:I'm going to.
Marc:But that's actually you trying to fucking take care of yourself.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's fucked up, man.
Guest:It's a weird fucked up thing.
Guest:And I think my real reaction to that was never wanting kids.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I saw like in the last four or five years, I've seen people have kids who are really, really good at it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And now I see them, and I'm like, I could do that, where you're patient, and you can be... You treat them... I see these, and you're like, oh, you can never do that to a four-year-old or a five-year-old.
Guest:I've seen people do that with a five-year-old, and that five-year-old is the best five-year-old.
Guest:He understands.
Guest:I've seen people be like, no, I can't.
Guest:Until you talk, I can't help you.
Guest:You just have to calm down, and then I can help you.
Guest:And then I've seen the kid...
Guest:start taking deep breaths trying to calm down realizing the situation yeah also like i mean todd glass talks about it all the time but it really is if you just hit if you just if your first reaction is to hit your kid you're just an asshole yeah like that's a human being yeah
Guest:It's not a thing you own.
Guest:You made it, but it's not yours.
Guest:That's a person.
Guest:So that's a big shift where I can see other versions of passion.
Marc:Holy shit, I think you're going to turn into a full, well-rounded person.
Marc:Yeah, I hope it doesn't make me unfunny.
Marc:It won't, dude.
Marc:Some things never go away.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You feel good?
Marc:I feel great.
Marc:It's a good session.
Marc:It does feel like that.
Marc:Good talking to you, man.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:That's Mr. Tate.
Marc:That was the show.
Marc:That was fun.
Marc:You want me to play guitar?
Marc:Fuck it, man.
Marc:Let me put my headphones in.
Marc:My earphones.
Marc:My earplugs.
Marc:I gotta put my earplugs in.
Marc:Grandpa's gotta put his earplugs in so he can play loud through his Fender Champ.
Marc:Hold on a second.
Guest:guitar solo
Guest:I kind of lost it there at the end.
Marc:I thought I was playing Freebird.
Marc:Boomer lives!