The Marc and Tom Show #4
Marc:Hey, people, this episode of The Mark and Tom Show is sponsored by Those Who Teach, the new comedy on TruTV.
Marc:Adam Clayton Holland, Andrew Orvidal, and Ben Roy of the Denver-based comedy troupe The Grawlick star as three troublemaking teachers, along with Maria Thayer as the school librarian.
Marc:This season, with a new principle around, they're forced to take their schemes to greater lengths in order to keep their jobs, their friends, and their dignity.
Marc:It's going to be a long year.
Marc:The A.V.
Marc:Club calls it relentlessly, defiantly funny.
Marc:Those Who Teach, Thursdays at 10.30 p.m., 9.30 Central on True TV.
Guest:We're also sponsored by Your Pretty Faces Going to Hell, an original series from Adult Swim.
Guest:It's a workplace comedy set in hell, literally hell, where demons deal with love, sex, religion, existential dread, and dealing with the world's lousiest boss, all while having to stab some unfortunate soul with a pitchfork.
Guest:Season three premieres October 23rd at 1130 p.m.
Guest:on Adult Swim with guest stars like Andy Daly, John Glazer, and Eddie Pepitone.
Guest:You can catch up with the first two seasons on AdultSwim.com.
Guest:The show is nominated for an Emmy, but it lost to Rob Corddry, I think.
Guest:But watch it anyway.
Guest:Your pretty face is going to hell on Adult Swim.
Marc:Now it's time for the Mark and Tom show.
Marc:This is a thing that my friend Tom Sharpling and I have done a few times.
Marc:We just sit down on the mics and try to figure things out.
Marc:We did three of these in the past, and you used to only be able to get them on iTunes, but now they're all part of Howl Premium.
Marc:Go to howl.fm and use the code WTF to start your subscription to Howl, where you can get thousands of hours of podcasts, including all the WTF archives.
Marc:Yep.
Guest:And don't forget to check out my show, The Best Show.
Guest:It's live every week, Tuesday nights at 9 p.m.
Guest:Eastern at thebestshow.net.
Guest:And you can get the podcast of the show every Wednesday.
Marc:Okay, let's start the Mark and Tom show.
Guest:Most of us are.
Guest:Most of us are.
Most of us are.
Marc:Tom, it's been a while since we've done this.
Marc:How do you feel about things?
Guest:That's a good open-ended... That's like a trap.
Marc:Well, no, I overheard you talking to Brendan there about... I didn't realize you were an animation voice.
Marc:I'm one myself, but it doesn't sound like I'm as popular as you.
Guest:I've been doing this voice on this, this cartoon network show.
Guest:It's called Steven universe and I'm the dad on it.
Marc:So you're a regular.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I'm the first person below the exciting characters.
Um,
Guest:It's the kids.
Guest:It's the kid, Steven Universe, and then his three women who are the spirit type superpower forces in him because he's half human and half not human.
Guest:And I'm his human dad who is the goofball.
Guest:And...
Guest:It's funny because the character's not super sexy in a way.
Guest:And when I was at Comic-Con a few years ago in San Diego, they were just inviting me to a panel.
Guest:As the dad?
Guest:Well, I didn't have to go in costume.
Guest:But you were representing the show?
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:I was representing the... At Comic-Con for grown men?
Guest:yes you know the yeah the thing where i know yeah this entire city of san diego is overrun by you know where the the padres the baseball team was just like we can't have games this week because this city is overrun by man children women children dressed like yeah darth vader yeah um as a
Marc:It's like Hackney to even make jokes about it.
Marc:I have no sense of it because there would be no reason for me to ever go down there.
Marc:I've detached almost entirely from the nerd community, by the way.
Marc:I think that's a fair move at this point.
Marc:I felt disingenuous about it.
Marc:There was a period there where I thought it necessary that I go out in the world and do the meltdown shows and do the alt rooms that were nerd based.
Marc:And I realized that I'm not one of them.
Marc:I'm not the opposite of them.
Marc:I'm not a bro or a bad guy or a jock or a villain to them.
Marc:But I certainly do not have the same interests as these people.
Guest:And did you feel like you were feigning it at any point?
Guest:No.
Guest:What would be the overlap in the Venn diagram?
Guest:Of me and nerds?
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:Well, I think we're fundamentally sensitive people, but they seem to be interested in a lot of different specific things that require a lot of attention.
Marc:I don't have that type of focus.
Marc:I can't get that involved with anything.
Marc:A comic book series, like I crap out pretty early.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:Give me two or three of them.
Marc:I get the idea.
Marc:I'm good.
Marc:I don't need to feed that habit like that.
Guest:Yeah, and be...
Guest:Going back to the comic book store every Wednesday.
Marc:I didn't grow up with it.
Marc:I don't.
Marc:I'm more concerned with people liking me in a in a real way than finding a group of people that do the same weird thing I do.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Rather than just having interests, and then you never have to talk about who you actually are.
Guest:No.
Marc:Yeah, I'm the opposite of that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'd like to talk about who I am and not about number seven of Stupid Man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, number seven is a pretty good issue, though, I have to say, of Stupid Man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Isn't that the one where he gets really stupid?
Guest:That's the one where he can't get stupid.
Guest:He loses his powers, and then he's not sure what to do.
Guest:And then, thankfully, he gets bit by a radioactive stupid bug.
Guest:The death of stupid man.
Guest:I understand.
Guest:As a kid, I read comic books as a kid, and then I would just...
Guest:it was this tug of war between music and comic books for a stretch.
Guest:And then it was just like, no, I just like music.
Guest:I don't like comic books anymore.
Guest:When I did this comic con,
Guest:thing for Steven Universe and we then afterwards they were they said okay they'll do autographs at one of the tables and so it's me and all the other voices at the table and the creator of the show and I was people were bringing these posters up that they sold and then they would like look at me and be like
Guest:like i don't think i want you to sign this thing and like i literally at one point said to somebody it's like you know i'm i'm that guy on the poster i do the voice of him do you do you want me to sign your poster he's just like yeah i don't think so
Guest:And I'm at this thing and everything I've done with the best show and all this stuff carried like zero currents.
Guest:Like I had no clout.
Guest:You were nobody.
Guest:It was like being in a different country where it's just like, don't you know who I am?
Guest:I'm worth something.
Guest:People don't understand.
Marc:I'm Tom Sharkwing from the best show.
Guest:I've got value.
Guest:If I was at a record store.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:To be a different story.
Marc:I'd be talking to everybody.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'd be a celebrity.
Guest:But it was... Demeaning.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:I was the lowest person on that panel ever.
Guest:Who'd they want to sign?
Guest:Just the kid?
Guest:They wanted the kid and Rebecca Sugar, who created the show.
Guest:They wanted her to sign it.
Guest:And the voices of the gems, who were the women on the show.
Guest:And then I was just like, it would be like if you were getting the autograph of everybody on like Three's Company.
Guest:And then you're just like, I don't think I want Larry, the next door neighbor, to sign the thing.
Marc:It reminded me of this thing.
Marc:When I went to go see Lou Reed signing records at Strawberry Records and Kenmore Square.
Marc:I've told that story a million times.
Guest:I love that.
Guest:You can please tell it to me.
Guest:It's my favorite.
Guest:I've talked about this with John Worcester.
Guest:We've talked about me making an impact.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Waiting in the line.
Marc:So, like, yeah, I'm going down there, and I'm going to meet Lou.
Guest:What album is out now, probably?
Marc:New Sensations.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:So he's back.
Guest:This is Lou's comeback as a moped salesman.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I go down there, and I see the line, and I get online behind the guy wearing the white jumpsuit.
Marc:Tall, awkward-looking guy, white jumpsuit, got an amp strapped to his back, and he's playing guitar.
Marc:He's playing Velvet Underground's greatest hits online.
Marc:I could have spaced it out a little bit, but maybe there's one person in between us, but that was what I was following.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So we make our way up the stairs into Strawberry, and I see that Lou and whoever the band was for New Sensations.
Marc:I don't know who they were.
Marc:There was like three or four of them.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:This is what reminded me, though.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Of the person saying, I don't want you to sign that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So I'm like, what am I going to say to Lou that's going to be memorable, that's going to have an impact on you?
Marc:And I'm thinking, and I'm thinking, and then I get up to, I've got Transformer, and I've got the new Sensations, which I didn't care about.
Marc:So I got the two records, and then the guy from the band, they start signing.
Marc:It's moving towards Wu.
Marc:There's like three other dudes, and they're signing new Sensations.
Marc:And I'm like, okay, well, they're on that record.
Marc:And then they take Transformer.
Marc:Then the fucking bass player from New Sensations just signs Transformer.
Marc:I'm like, you just ruined it.
Guest:You were not on Transformer, stupid.
Marc:And you just scribbled on my record.
Marc:That's all you did.
Marc:If anyone goes, who's that guy?
Marc:I'm not even going to know your name.
Marc:I don't know who you are.
Guest:It's not like David Bowie was next to Lou Reed.
Guest:No.
Guest:And he decided to throw his signature on it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Why'd you sign?
Guest:Mick Lonson.
Marc:Fucking.
Marc:So that bothered me.
Marc:But it didn't distract me from my mission at hand, which was to connect with Lou directly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I look at Lou.
Marc:I go, he goes, how you doing, man?
Marc:I go like, hey, Lou, what gauge pick do you use?
Guest:What?
Guest:I think he said medium, right?
Guest:He did.
Guest:He said medium.
Guest:I know the stories.
Guest:It's my favorite story.
Guest:I was so thrilled.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You got to use a medium.
Marc:And I did for years.
Marc:No more.
Guest:No more.
Marc:Those days are over.
Marc:When Lou died, I gave up mediums.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Had to.
Guest:He took mediums.
Guest:He could have thrown a medium pick in his grave.
Guest:It's over, Lou.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:From here on out, out of respect for you, no more mediums for me.
Marc:I'm hanging it up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm hanging it up.
Marc:But I'm on a cartoon.
Marc:I'm on Harvey Beaks.
Marc:I did one episode of Adventure Time.
Marc:I played a non-flying squirrel.
Marc:And I get some good feedback for that.
Marc:People are surprised.
Marc:They know our voices.
Marc:That's the funniest thing is when people are surprised about it.
Marc:They're like, holy shit, that's Marin.
Marc:So I did one episode of Adventure Time, but then I have a recurring character on Harvey Beaks, Randall.
Marc:He's a cranky raccoon.
Marc:And basically, he owns a business, a store that has whatever's necessary for an episode to move through it.
Marc:I can sell anything at the store.
Marc:I rent things.
Marc:I sell things.
Marc:I can repair things.
Marc:And my mother lives with me.
Marc:So there's a little bit of that.
Marc:What voice do you use?
Guest:Pretty much this one.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And I just go... I just yell more.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's brighter.
Guest:I brighten it up.
Guest:Like, have you ever been in the room with those real voice guys?
Guest:I've seen... I don't think I've ever been in a room where one of them is doing their thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I've seen enough of watching them be interviewed and watching them when they slide into the thing.
Guest:It's really... To know you're not one of those guys?
Guest:It's kind of comforting to not...
Guest:Have that skill.
Guest:Try to... I think it would be to try to find that gear and then be like... What would be worse?
Guest:To try to find it and not have it?
Guest:Or to try to find it and find it?
Guest:And then suddenly you're like... You're just talking smart.
Guest:Like when they go into like...
Guest:those are my favorite of wts there's been a couple i think when you've talked to uh somebody doing impressions and they slide into things and you're just you can hear you you just kind of riding it out like anytime you want to go back to the normal voice i'm ready to talk to that person again but it is for that moment though it is kind of impressive how they could just go into it but to watch it is sort of freakish
Guest:Yeah, I don't know how far out I could go with the thing because you just, to me, you're doing the thing and there's the one guy running the board on the other side and he's just like... Yeah, they punch in.
Marc:Can you give us one more of those?
Guest:And you have to look at that guy, watch you do voices and stuff.
Guest:Right, as he's marking it down.
Guest:Number four.
Guest:I'd just be like...
Guest:I don't think I can do that voice anymore.
Guest:This guy looks like he thinks I'm an asshole.
Marc:You've decided he's disappointed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The board op's disappointed.
Guest:I'm bumming him out.
Guest:Like, he doesn't want me to keep doing this.
Guest:It is a pretty easy way to earn some money, though.
Guest:But you sing?
Guest:I sing on the show, and it's really something else.
Guest:But hasn't that been a dream of yours?
Guest:To sing?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:you know to do music not really no i knew pretty early on i was not gonna cut it with that i just uh to me the the if i wrote a song that was like a sincere song it would be one of the last things i would do because there's there's no way i could go forward with after all of the all of the mocking i've done of everything and suddenly i was just like
Guest:Hey, just here's a song I wrote.
Guest:I don't know where it came from.
Guest:Yeah, it's time.
Guest:It's just I'm just writing signs.
Guest:People are just laughing.
Guest:They probably laugh louder when I'm doing like, oh, this is funniest thing yet.
Guest:This dumb song is like, no, I was actually showing you my heart.
Guest:Your version of cats in the cradle.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Maybe I'm not made for these times or something.
Guest:I don't know who the fuck is.
Guest:Right?
Marc:Doesn't it feel like... I can't take it anymore.
Marc:I don't know what I'm going to... I don't know.
Marc:I'm at this place now where I'm like, now what do I do?
Guest:Aren't I done?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You're doing Carnegie Hall.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It'll sell out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You're going to do a sold-out show at Carnegie Hall.
Guest:Why not stop?
Guest:I have no problem stopping.
Marc:I stopped my show.
Marc:It seems to be a thing that people are into.
Marc:Gaffigan stopped his show to just say, I'm good.
Guest:Because what's the goal past that?
Guest:I guess you have to be Kevin Hart then.
Guest:And not that I'm putting, I think Kevin Hart's really funny.
Guest:But to just go, it's not even about comedy after a point.
Marc:No, I'm not like that.
Marc:I'm not even like Louis in that.
Marc:I still have in my brain, there's a place where don't I get to do nothing at the end of this?
Marc:I don't know why I have that.
Marc:But the issue I'm having, and again, I don't garner a lot of sympathy for this, is that really my problem is what do I do with my life now that the struggle has lessened a lot?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:You feel bad for me?
Guest:I don't feel bad for you, but I understand that dynamic.
Yeah.
Guest:I think one of the unhappiest stretches of my life was when I was writing on the TV show Monk and I was...
Guest:Like four years in and I thought that a job was I had been waiting for a job for so long that I thought it was going to fix everything.
Guest:And I was just like, well, that's what's on the other side of the line.
Guest:If I can just get that, then everything else falls into place.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And literally nothing fell into place.
Guest:And I was just like, wait, this is what I had pinned everything on was that it would suddenly all get fixed somehow.
Guest:And it's like nothing got fixed.
Guest:And then you're in a thing where no one wants to hear someone with a job complain about stuff because people don't have jobs.
Guest:It's gross.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:And my thing is that I have no desire to play arenas.
Marc:That sounds horrible to me.
Marc:And and also, like, I guess I could probably I probably got a movie in me, maybe the right.
Marc:But I don't feel like I feel like doing it really.
Marc:And the other thing is, I don't spend money like like I haven't changed my life at all.
Marc:People ask me, why aren't you upgrading?
Marc:And I'm like, why?
Marc:I don't have a wife.
Marc:I don't have children.
Marc:I don't want to worry about a nicer automobile.
Marc:I can't even get the work that I need to get done on the house I have now done.
Marc:I'm excited that I can afford dinner everywhere without even thinking about it.
Marc:I can go to a supermarket, get a bunch of groceries.
Marc:I don't even check prices.
Marc:If it's what you want, you get it.
Marc:I'm just going to get it.
Marc:I'll get the good ketchup.
Marc:I don't give a shit.
Marc:That's a bad example.
Marc:What other ketchup are you going to get?
Marc:There's one ketchup.
Marc:Even if you saw a good ketchup, you're like, I'm not going to get that ketchup.
Guest:Is that Mark Maron?
Guest:Look at him.
Guest:He's checking those ketchups out.
Guest:He's looking at the hunts.
Guest:He just set it down.
Guest:No one's going to get hunts ketchup.
Guest:Now he's holding the Heinz.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:And now he's going up.
Guest:He's going up to the shelf.
Guest:Wait, he's taking that ketchup?
Guest:He can't afford that ketchup?
Guest:That must be like $5, that bottle of ketchup.
Guest:The fancy mason jar ketchup.
Guest:Yeah, but it is such a tricky thing because your struggle to just kind of get to where you got is pretty well documented and you've talked about it, but there's that point where...
Guest:what are you supposed to do now it's like it's like when people wish that bob dylan died on that motorcycle just like well that would have been the best version of the story he did blonde on blonde and he's dead now it's just like that's kind of how look i'm a huge bob dylan fan but all things considered i kind of wish he died on that motorcycle it would have been a much better story and we wouldn't have empire burlesque
Marc:The worst thing about people living a long time is just that the story continues and fewer and fewer people give a shit.
Marc:You know, it gets to a point where it's like, what happened to Bob Dylan?
Marc:I don't know, he just dropped dead on stage in the middle of a song.
Guest:No one knew what it was.
Guest:Yeah, it's a minor league baseball stadium.
Marc:Right.
Guest:A fairground.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:It was like, we didn't know what to do.
Guest:Maybe you should not have been playing a town this small.
Guest:We don't have a hospital here.
Marc:But would everybody be upset, and then people would tweet it, and they'd be like, what a horrible year 2016's been.
Marc:I'm like, that generation's going to go.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I tell you, though, I do find...
Marc:When I listen to a Bowie song now, I'm sad.
Marc:Like, I'm happy about the song.
Marc:But now you're sort of like, wow, he really was amazing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I always felt that way.
Marc:But now it's even better.
Guest:Well, now you can just see the body of work as what it is because the book is closed.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it's like somebody could slide the story of this person down.
Guest:to you and it has a beginning, a middle, and an end now.
Marc:But I haven't listened to the last record or really taken in the design of his own out, you know, going, his own death note.
Guest:Yeah, I listened to it one time and it was so, I thought it was so intense
Guest:That it was just something I was like, I will come back to this another time.
Guest:Really?
Guest:It's just... I thought it was the heaviest thing imaginable.
Guest:Really?
Guest:To just control your art to that degree and to tell...
Guest:To have your life and to have art be the same.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:To where this is the level that... This is how you make your art that when you're checking out, your art reflects you checking out.
Guest:So it's all there, huh?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I thought it was... But look, you can infuse anything with meaning after somebody dies, but...
Guest:I thought he clearly knows what's coming.
Guest:Because he's ill.
Guest:He's been sick.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:So what do you do now?
Guest:Think about this.
Guest:I'm putting together that last record.
Guest:So this is going to be... What if the Carnegie Hall show is the most morose show?
Guest:It's like...
Marc:I think Mark is dying.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:Why is he talking about this so much?
Marc:Well, I'm going to do some acting.
Marc:I just got cast in that Glow show.
Marc:Oh, that's right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That's exciting.
Marc:Yeah, I'm going to be the one man, it seems, amongst the 14 women.
Guest:That's great.
Marc:Yeah, it was like, you know, I'm surprised they cast me.
Marc:The description was he's got a cocaine problem.
Marc:He sort of like didn't really live up to what he was supposed to do.
Marc:He's kind of a schlock movie director.
Marc:He has a problem with women.
Marc:So somehow I got the part.
Marc:I'm excited to try acting without having to worry about it being me or me writing it or producing it.
Marc:It sounds like it might be fun.
Marc:I'd like to have a good time.
Marc:That's what I'm looking for.
Marc:That's all.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:You can do it.
Marc:I want to play guitar.
Marc:I'd like to play music with some people.
Marc:That's another big dream.
Marc:And these are things that I could do.
Marc:Rent a space.
Marc:Put one on hold for four weekends in a row.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then, you know, just, you know, go play.
Marc:But you know how that goes.
Marc:Maybe you don't.
Marc:You know, if you're an amateur guitar player, and then, you know, maybe I'll go get some other amateurs, and there's like a room full, there's me and maybe Bill Burr on drums or maybe some other comics, and then you get into one groove, and then you try to do a cover of something that I don't know.
Marc:I'm not a cover guy.
Marc:Like, in my mind, to play music, I'd like to find a groove, lay into it, do it like endless boogie style.
Marc:Just sort of like, let's see if we can find something and just do it.
Marc:But then I get nervous.
Marc:Like, is the drummer bored?
Marc:Like, does the bass player need more?
Marc:And they're like, but they're like, no, this is what we do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's why they chose the bass is because they're like, yeah, I'll lay back over in this corner.
Marc:And just do this.
Marc:You go.
Marc:But I haven't done that yet.
Marc:So I want to do that.
Guest:And yeah, you can.
Guest:Well, what about you?
Guest:But there's like chapters with it.
Guest:I think you put the Carnegie Hall thing feels like it just like.
Guest:Because I think about when I saw... I'm downplaying it.
Guest:I'm downplaying it.
Guest:Okay, well, I don't want to build it.
Guest:I don't want to build it up too big.
Guest:You can't.
Guest:You go ahead.
Guest:But I think about when I saw you...
Guest:I hadn't seen you... I saw you at... I would see you at Luna Lounge all the time.
Guest:And then there was a stretch where you just weren't in New York as much.
Guest:And I wasn't seeing as much comedy, so maybe I was missing you when you were here.
Guest:But then I saw you at a show that was way... Like on Hudson Street, there was a place and there was a show that...
Guest:Paul F. Tompkins and Janine Garofalo were hosting a thing.
Guest:Does that ring a bell?
Guest:And then you came up and I was like, Oh, Mark Maron's here.
Guest:Whoa.
Guest:I haven't seen him in a while.
Guest:And it was, I think it was, I think it was the stretch where you were like in the woods when you talk about like, I don't know what's next there.
Guest:And you could feel it seeing you perform and,
Marc:you could feel that this guy doesn't have both hands on the steering wheel as of like you were you were you were fighting it was like if it wasn't like a fight yeah like at that point was that like a oh yeah it was like you know what these people want is this what you want fuck you you know like yeah like you know you're not gonna like me you know like i don't remember what it was i was always i was so threatened by by all of them it's like you know oh you guys all have your shit together
Marc:So I just I remember just being dead in the water before I even got out on stage before.
Guest:And it kind of felt like that.
Guest:I mean, it was still it just was like it was like you were something preceded you like like this cloud rolled out and then you went under it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You can't like you're just like, oh, my clouds out there already.
Marc:I got to get out there now to suck the energy out of the room.
Marc:Now that we've got a nice groove going, let's have Mark come out and make everybody wonder why they're here.
Guest:And then the person after you is like, I got to go on after the cloud.
Guest:Can you get rid of the cloud?
Guest:Can somebody get the cloud up stage?
Guest:But that's like a different person now.
Guest:Like that person.
Guest:And it doesn't seem like you're.
Guest:And going back to that thing where you're trying to just like, like, where's the where's the fight?
Guest:And then you're not manufacturing fights.
Marc:Well, that's that's really the issue is that it like most of it was like I still have some struggles as you do as well, I would imagine.
Marc:But we're also two people that have invested a lot in our struggle.
Marc:I mean, that's the nature of our voice.
Marc:I mean, we're different, but if you and I didn't have something to go up against, for me, it's me.
Marc:For you, it's everything else.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I'm pretty happy with myself, actually.
Guest:That might be the key difference between us is like you were just like, what's wrong with me was your first question.
Guest:The first thing you'd ask.
Guest:Mine was what's wrong with everybody but me.
Marc:I wish I was more like that.
Marc:I'm getting a little more.
Marc:Because along those lines, it's like, yeah, what's wrong with me?
Marc:And why can't I be more like that guy?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:you know like how is that guy winning yeah why is he winning why is it easy for him why is it easy for those are all my questions all that then we just then we just go into because i don't talk about that though because for me it's just hatred it's just it becomes jealousy and contempt it's there there's no sort of endearing voice around it you know it's just fuck that guy yeah
Guest:So when you had that like when things started to go better and you got the podcast going.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Was it was it just like like layers falling off of the.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What started to happen was it took me a while to get over the fact that like you know like I'm a comedian.
Marc:I didn't set out to be an interviewer.
Marc:Mm hmm.
Marc:that was a hurdle when people were like i like your show be like what which part like what show which one the comedy or the well you know i'm a comedian too yeah that thing yeah i stopped giving a and i just started to realize like this is something i'm good at what it really came down to is like you want to feel like you accomplish something that people respect and enjoy and it has some you know some relevance
Marc:And, you know, that was a big burden off.
Marc:Like, you know, like it was just a vindication.
Marc:Is that the word I want?
Marc:Where like all this work, though it didn't happen the way I thought, has, you know, I've done something.
Marc:I've accomplished something.
Marc:I've achieved something.
Marc:Like, you know, I've left something.
Marc:I've given people a thing.
Marc:A lot of people get a lot out of it.
Marc:And that makes me feel good.
Marc:And I can earn a living.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Do you feel like you needed just a little bit of it to make you feel like I can start letting go of some of this stuff?
Guest:Like a little bit of that validation?
Marc:Well, the weird thing is, is that like I've spent so long talking about me.
Marc:Like now I find that like on stage, I'm like talking a little bit more about other things a little.
Marc:That's happening sort of naturally.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Like I can put myself in my experience, but it implies a bigger thing.
Marc:You know, I'm more relatable.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:You said that like Andy Kindler.
Yeah.
Marc:Oh no.
Marc:Like that's just happening naturally because I don't think, because I spent so much time in my head and so much time being angry and resentful and working really hard trying to do something that I became insulated.
Marc:I don't know that that's, maybe that's everybody's struggle, but it's sort of like just do it.
Marc:What do you keep whining and yelling about shit for?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I just wonder, has it all been just some prolonged and persistent attempt
Marc:at self-medicating has this entire journey just been for me to feel okay if that's the path and it's just like if you can get here you will feel okay i think that's a pretty good deal right that's all then it seems like that seems to be a lot of what i was working for it's like i don't want to make a fortune you know i i'd like to you know make a living yeah but ultimately i'd like to feel okay about myself
Marc:And now I feel okay about myself.
Marc:So now what do I do?
Marc:Is that the next record?
Marc:Hey, I'm all right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This one's going to be a little shorter, everybody.
Guest:That's when it becomes, hey, it's me and six new comedians.
Guest:I want you to meet these guys.
Guest:You're going to...
Guest:We're all doing pretty good.
Guest:I'm going to talk for about eight minutes tonight in the show.
Marc:But things still fucking aggravate me.
Marc:And I still find that a lot of the same buttons that I always had are still there.
Marc:I still have these moments of like complete resentment and not quite jealousy, but just sort of like, oh, fuck that guy.
Guest:Are you saying fuck that guy because he has something that you want?
Marc:No, it's usually because I think they're full of shit.
Guest:They're frauds.
Guest:Well, that's the one that gets me is when suddenly... Same guy?
Guest:Probably.
Guest:I bet you if we wrote... Should I write it on a piece of paper?
Marc:If we wrote 10... I'm going to write a name on a piece of paper, and you just tell me... See, now we're being diplomatic.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, if we...
Guest:Yeah, that's the one I would have written.
Guest:That would have been number one on my list also.
Guest:Oh yeah, there it is.
Guest:That's the guy.
Guest:The one guy.
Guest:I might as well print up a fucking pad with that on it.
Marc:and then this is the one for me that would be right after the one yeah oh my god yeah like fortunately he's like i haven't seen much of him like you know he's off of my radar somehow here's who i'm okay with
Marc:I'm okay with him now.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:Not great, but we've gotten some peace.
Marc:I guess I could mention his name.
Marc:Kumail and I have somehow mended... I like Kumail.
Guest:I saw Kumail one time on a plane when he was in first class, and then I had to keep hoofing it back with the steerage.
Guest:It's like, hey, man, how's it going?
Guest:And it's just like, look...
Guest:the exhausted flyers behind me just like we gotta sit down just like this is not time for you to talk to your fancy friend in first class just like that thing where i'm just like yeah yeah yeah no maybe i'll see you by the luggage carousel yeah i'll see you after like that because they're gonna pull a curtain that's not gonna let me and i'm also not gonna slide up beside you halfway during the flight be like
Guest:hey, how's it going?
Guest:Oh, you're watching something?
Guest:Oh, it's okay.
Guest:Oh, you've got a window seat, so I'll talk over this other person.
Guest:It's like, no, I will maybe see you in the airport, otherwise I'll see you somewhere else down the road.
Marc:One time back a few years ago, Patton sent me nuts back from first.
Marc:Oh, that's so funny.
Marc:I guess what it is is that
Marc:Yeah, because obviously you have to have ambition and persistence to make it.
Marc:But if I don't see the... If I can't feel the whole character, you must be hiding some horrible monster that's driving you.
Marc:There's something duplicitous about it.
Marc:I can't really hide myself.
Marc:Even when I'm being nice...
Marc:People who know me or can see through me enough immediately to disarm me, they know who I am.
Marc:But I know that I can't hide both the bad and the good of who I am.
Guest:I understand that completely.
Guest:I feel like when I get bothered by a certain type of performer, their worldview can often be, here are all the problems I had.
Guest:It's always had.
Guest:It's like, but now I'm...
Guest:solid now like now i'm fixed and this is like a this is a good version of like it's like it's like now i fixed myself the end and here i am fixed in front of you it's like you're not fixed you're probably more broken than you've ever been and you don't realize it and you're just denying how broken you are and five years from now you're going to tell the story about just like
Guest:five years ago i was a total mess and i thought i was this but now i'm fixed again and but it's these people this all they do is just say how they're better they fit they figured it out yeah i'm done yeah i fixed myself i'm great now and you gotta like me because i'm great and i'm i'm totally solid and there's nothing wrong with me and so if you have a problem with me it's probably your problem yeah
Guest:Not that I still have more problems than I ever had, but now I'm just denying the idea that I could not be perfect.
Marc:And also I think that there's a thing where you and I come from a different... I don't think you went down any of the same paths I did personally, but certainly our heroes were of a certain ilk.
Marc:And this goes back to what we were talking about at the beginning about how I felt that performing for nerd culture was not really...
Marc:I wasn't being disingenuous.
Marc:I was just being myself.
Marc:But how are they going to really take me in?
Marc:You know, like I had this amazing moment, you know, in I went over to the to the stages where, you know, to do wardrobe fitting for this guy.
Guest:OK.
Marc:You know, I'd made certain decisions about to about him.
Marc:character decisions.
Marc:Now, the two women who wrote these, Carly Mench and Liz Flahive, I believe is how you say her last name.
Marc:It's a tricky last name.
Marc:It's F-L-A-H-I-V-E.
Marc:Well, anyways, so Carly Mench is...
Marc:back there with the i was doing wardrobe and i said i said this guy like he does coke but no vials he's strictly a bindle guy strictly you know piece of folded magazine does it with the top of his pen maybe with a key you know he's in it for for you know that that it's his thing but it's not a thing that he's flashy about it's just it's medicine okay you know he's just a that's the kind of coke user he is
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:And she looks at me with this moment and she just goes, oh, we're so glad you're here.
Marc:This is, it's like.
Marc:Like, you know, we got a real one.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, this guy's the one, he's really, this guy, he's like, he knows this guy.
Marc:Like, I don't have any shame about that shit.
Marc:But I think sort of the kind of guys we're talking about is those people that are like, I'm okay now, I'm okay.
Marc:Is that, you know, why were you not okay?
Marc:What happened there?
Marc:How do you think you're okay now?
Marc:You can't just have the one without the other, because then you're just a caricature of yourself.
Guest:I think also what doesn't constitute not being famous enough, that's not a problem.
Guest:Yeah, that's not a problem.
Guest:That's like because your career, it's not when you close your eyes, you see one thing.
Guest:And then when you open them, you see another thing because they're not lined up in terms of how famous you are.
Guest:You can't call that a struggle.
Right.
Marc:would you know see this is the weird thing because I haven't changed my life so much and I know you know fundamentally like I'm just now sort of arriving at the idea like you've got a writing gig yeah I've been writing on a on a show and it's a good show yeah and you're having a nice time you're getting paid money to write yep the best show does well
Guest:Yeah, I look, I feel like I wish it did more than what it's doing now.
Guest:I feel like we've got a little bit of a closed circle thing going on that I I've tried to not make it a closed circle like I'm not doing.
Guest:It's not behind a paywall or any of that stuff.
Guest:I've tried to make it available to everybody.
Guest:However they want it, and it just feels like it's still some... It's almost just too much of a thing.
Guest:I know it's the thing that I've always done my whole life where it's like you can't explain it in one sentence, so then people just...
Guest:don't check it out because they'll just check out something that they can say whether they want it or not that can be summed up in one sentence.
Guest:It's just like.
Marc:Well, the funny thing is it's a universe that for years, to dip into it, you're sort of like, well, where do I get started?
Marc:Well, any number of three-hour shows.
Guest:And I know that's the thing.
Guest:And I've thought about maybe the show should only be.
Marc:No, I'm just saying that the relationship you built with the people that know you
Marc:is deep and long and came up in a time where, you know, they put the three hours aside.
Marc:And it's not a length thing.
Marc:It's just that there's people that have grown up with you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:At this point.
Guest:Yeah, absolutely.
Guest:And the bummer is...
Guest:I wish I could just get paid to do this show because it's the thing I like doing more than anything else.
Guest:But it's just the reality of reality is that it isn't.
Guest:And I can't.
Guest:And so I get paid from other things that I also like doing or love doing.
Guest:But it's not...
Guest:It's not the thing I feel like I'm best at, like I am doing the radio show.
Guest:So that, I just have to make my peace that this is forever going to be some sort of compliment to...
Guest:my writing on tv shows and getting work that way when i would love nothing more than for it to just be the thing that that could be my thing but it just is and that and look these are not big problems these are a young man i'm not equating this with like actual problems no i know what you're saying though but it is something i have to figure out
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, I mean, like for me, I didn't know that, you know, that the podcast would be the main part of my livelihood and that would be the thing that I could rest on and know that was there.
Marc:If nothing else worked out, it's sort of opposite.
Marc:Like I wanted to be a comic who made his living doing stuff.
Marc:just comedy and was a big comedy star that wasn't happening and then the podcast was this thing i did that like i had no idea it would become this thing and it's fed the comedy and now i can do like these tv things i had all these opportunities and but the podcast is the thing i i you know i fall back on i'm proud of it and i love it but like i was a comic by you know first and foremost and it took a couple years for me to to realize like well i guess i'm this guy who talks to people
Guest:Yeah, and it would have been very easy for you to have been slid down that path to where you're just, well, why don't you just keep talking to people and do a thing, and then you're doing less comedy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:To where you don't do comedy anymore, and you're the funny guy who does interviews.
Guest:Oh, he also does comedy.
Guest:Yeah, who's funny.
Marc:I hear he does comedy, too.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that's still kind of weird.
Marc:It sort of still happens.
Marc:But my point being is that we both do okay, and we get to do what we want to do.
Marc:But my question is, do we really know that we're okay?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:What do you do?
Marc:You just listen to records?
Marc:I'm listening to records.
Guest:I'm trying to... I read a book.
Marc:What book did you read?
Marc:Dreamland by Sam Quinones about the opiate epidemic.
Marc:It's great.
Guest:I just read the Patty Hearst book, American Heiress.
Guest:How was that?
Guest:It was great.
Guest:It was so exciting and just seeing how insane that was.
Guest:Is that a new book?
Guest:It came out like a month or so ago.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we're reading?
Guest:Yeah, we're trying.
Guest:And so it's nonfiction.
Guest:We're keeping up.
Guest:I'm trying to build these muscles up to where I can get back to fiction.
Guest:When people read fiction, I'm just like, what?
Guest:How do you choose?
Guest:But I get a fiction.
Guest:I start reading it.
Guest:I read one sentence.
Guest:I'm just like, I don't know.
Guest:I'm lost after one sentence sometimes.
Guest:I'm just like, wait, who is...
Guest:What is going on here?
Guest:It's like... Why is this confusing already?
Guest:I'm two pages in.
Guest:I'm still... And, like, you can just picture the author just being like, wait, are you that stupid?
Guest:Like, you're not supposed to be that stupid.
Guest:You can't hang with this thing?
Guest:You're reading too much non... I think nonfiction just dulls your ability to read fiction.
Guest:I'm really picky about fiction.
Marc:I'm trying to read the new DeLillo, and I just...
Guest:But that's exactly the thing where I'm just like, am I just a lightweight now?
Marc:Well, that one's even understandable, but it's sort of like, this must mean much more than I'm getting.
Marc:I'm missing the big picture here.
Guest:I got to build these muscles back up.
Marc:But what muscles like they make it difficult and then they ride on their reputation as being important.
Marc:And it's sort of like pretty sparse.
Marc:Like I read DeLillo's last book and I'm like, I don't even know what that was about.
Marc:And I finished it.
Marc:I don't know what it's about.
Marc:that feeling of just like, there were characters, they did things, there was a desert.
Guest:I don't know what it's about.
Guest:You're like, oh no, this is what this is.
Guest:When you just realize like, I'm deep into this thing.
Guest:It's not going to suddenly start making sense all of a sudden.
Guest:You're just like, this is the thing.
Guest:I don't understand this.
Guest:I missed a lot of something in between this and the last book that made sense to me.
Guest:But then you can't just be like, then there's that point where it's just like,
Guest:I'm not going to stop reading this.
Guest:I'm not one of these people who's going to be like, I couldn't finish it.
Guest:It's just like, no, I'm finishing it.
Guest:Sure, I don't know what's going on, but I'm going to look at every page in this thing until there's no more to look at.
Marc:Be relieved.
Marc:You start doing that page count where you're towards the end.
Marc:You're like, how many?
Marc:Okay, I'm almost there.
Guest:I'm almost there.
Marc:I remember when I plowed through crime and punishment, because I couldn't handle it in high school.
Marc:But at some point, as a relatively grown-up person, I'm like, I'm going to do it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Talking about name problems, you're like, what?
Marc:Who?
Marc:But that trains you to sort of try to follow the thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I liked it.
Marc:That guy's a good writer, Dostoevsky.
Guest:I don't know if you've heard of him.
Guest:I've heard good things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I read Crime and Punishment.
Guest:And also, and it was one of those things where, God forbid, you put the thing down for three days and then come back to just like, who is these people again?
Guest:Like, I'm expecting everything to be like an HBO show and start with like a little recap at the top of the thing and show me all the scenes.
Guest:Yeah, Raskolnikov killed the guy.
Guest:And these cops, the good cop, bad cop.
Guest:Yeah, that feeling when you have to go back and just like...
Guest:I guess I'm starting this book over again.
Marc:I'm not too hard on myself.
Marc:If I can't get through it, I won't get through it.
Marc:Because I know I have it in me.
Marc:Because when I picked up that Dreamland book, which was like, did you read Fast Food Nation?
Marc:No.
Marc:It's like Fast Food Nation for heroin.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:You could have blurbed this.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, but I think a lot of people still ate McDonald's, and they needed to really understand why they shouldn't eat McDonald's.
Marc:Sure, yeah.
Marc:There's no one going like, I don't care, I'm still going to do heroin.
Marc:They're not even going to get to the book.
Marc:You're not going to tell me heroin's bad.
Guest:You don't need...
Guest:Like, with food, we need some version of food to stay alive.
Guest:We don't need some version.
Guest:Stop with that shitty fast food heroin.
Guest:Just go farm to table with the good stuff.
Marc:Well, that's what they do.
Marc:That's what the book's about.
Marc:Black tar heroin is definitely farm to table heroin.
Marc:But...
Marc:But I was in it.
Marc:I was like, I can't put it down.
Marc:And I was happy that happened.
Marc:That happened with me with a couple of John Ronson books, too.
Marc:But it's nonfiction as well.
Marc:But there's definitely, he's got a definite point of view.
Marc:But Quinones was like real journalist stuff.
Marc:But I tried to read.
Marc:I watched Fitzgerald the other day.
Marc:Kind of made myself wait that out.
Marc:Because I had not seen it in a long time.
Marc:I don't think I'd ever seen it all the way through.
Marc:And I interviewed Herzog.
Marc:And I'm like, I gotta watch Fitzgerald, though.
Marc:And after about an hour, you're like, this is getting good.
Marc:You forget you have to wait sometimes for art.
Marc:We all think we need to be doing it.
Marc:But you forget that you've got to be patient, open your mind, try to let it happen, get rid of your expectations, don't be hard on yourself.
Guest:Yeah, and it's going to...
Guest:It's going to take time to get that boat over the hill.
Guest:With all of it.
Marc:That is the metaphor for any art.
Marc:I think that if you were to sum it up, why is Fitzgerald good?
Marc:Because art takes time.
Marc:It's going to take time to get the boat over the hill.
Marc:And that is ultimately not going to mean much.
Marc:Because someone else's agenda...
Marc:Someone else's mystical agenda is going to undermine your big understanding of things.
Guest:And that is one of the craziest.
Guest:I didn't hear your Herzog interview yet.
Guest:But just that idea of like, could somebody have literally lived the movie more than that?
Guest:You talk about David Bowie living the art and the art being the life.
Guest:And it's just like...
Guest:You watch Burden of Dreams, and it's just like, they are the same movie.
Guest:It's the craziest thing of just like, well, he's telling the story of getting the boat over the hill, and that's his fiction thing.
Guest:Now, here's a documentary about it, about...
Guest:Hurts not getting the boat over the hill.
Marc:But you know what fascinates me more than anything else with anybody that does something that requires, you know, that could possibly result in what you and I are talking about, which is like, you know, I'm a smart guy and I don't know what the fuck is going on.
Marc:Is that that commitment...
Marc:Like, you know, like that guy committed however long of his life to that story, you know, that most people don't give a fuck about.
Marc:Most people in the world, I don't know what movie you're talking about, but that, you know, like that was his life.
Marc:People who make movies in general, especially personal movies, where you like and when you realize how long it takes just to get the thing off the ground, that commitment, you know, it really makes you sort of like, well, I have to reckon with this.
Marc:I have to, as a viewer, as a taker in of all things intelligent, I think, have to sort of like give him due process.
Guest:Yeah, because this is not a small.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that's that's the other thing.
Guest:It just feels like I keep at this point in my life.
Guest:I keep feeling like it's like like.
Guest:is there a big, do I get, do I, am I going to do one big thing or is everything going to be, is this radio show the big thing?
Guest:Am I doing it now?
Guest:Once one, one week at a time.
Guest:And you turn around, it's like, no, that was your big thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like if you find out like WTF, yeah, that was your big thing.
Guest:You're just like, wait, what was, when, when do I do my big thing?
Guest:But you did it.
Marc:But you were, I was talking to you right about with almost everything now.
Marc:Was it who, did you tell me Jason Warner said that, that a movie is like a tweet?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, he said there's no difference between a movie and a tweet.
Marc:Right.
Guest:At this point.
Marc:What are we going to do about that?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I think we've got to play by a different reality.
Guest:We have to say that that's not reality.
Marc:I can't take it anymore.
Marc:What I've been saying lately is that I think it was better when not everyone had a voice.
Marc:Look, I don't know if I'd go that far.
Marc:Well, I'm saying it in a specific context.
Marc:Obviously, I believe in democracy and that everyone should have a voice, but maybe not a Twitter account.
Marc:Maybe I should not have to engage with every voice.
Marc:You don't, though.
Marc:I know.
Marc:You don't.
Marc:I think maybe let's reframe it.
Marc:I'm mad at the shallow, witless, and sometimes cruel nature of the voices that feel like they deserve to be heard.
Marc:Is that better?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:No, that makes sense.
Guest:It used to be...
Guest:that you'd like from like the second humans existed until 12 years ago, you'd think a thought and it would just stay in your head.
Guest:And the worst thing you could think is like, well, what if I let that go from my brain to my mouth in terms of the people you're in front of?
Guest:And for all of time, people would just let the things either stay in their brain or maybe say it in a group of people.
Guest:But then now it goes from your brain to your fingers.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And everybody's in a panic to say the thing as quickly as possible.
Guest:Things like whether the thought is formed or not or whether it's like, well, maybe that's a mean thing and this actually might hurt somebody.
Marc:That's why sometimes I'll just tweet shower.
Guest:I now just... I can't do Twitter anymore.
Guest:I tweet jokes once in a while.
Guest:I'm just like, I've pulled back too.
Guest:I delete them.
Marc:Why do you delete them?
Guest:Because I just feel like it's not... Why does this company say that this thing is a permanent record of something?
Guest:Like, I didn't...
Guest:that's their business model, not mine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like I want, sometimes you want to say something and you don't want it to stick around more than a day.
Guest:That's their problem.
Guest:That's why they have Snapchat apparently.
Guest:So that things can stay for a day and then they're gone and they're gone.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But so, and I understand that that's, I won't do it.
Guest:I can't do Snapchat.
Guest:I've seen it and it's not for me.
Guest:I just, there's a point where you just have to go, man, I'm going to sit this, this one out.
Guest:It's,
Guest:Basically, Twitter is now just like some open mic night that some company set up, and you go up to there, they're just like...
Guest:They set it up.
Guest:It's like, hey, look who wandered in here for free.
Guest:It's like, hey, we got Marc Maron's here tonight.
Guest:He's going to be putting on a show fighting with.
Guest:Not that good.
Guest:Not that one.
Guest:Tonight, Marc Maron fighting with people with eggs.
Marc:About nothing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's doing it on our stage.
Guest:For free.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How much did you get paid there, Mark?
Guest:Oh, nothing.
Guest:And you couldn't sleep because you were still mad.
Guest:But thank you for contributing to our company for that.
Guest:It's like everybody's dancing.
Guest:And make sure to live tweet your insomnia.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's what it is.
Marc:That's all anyone's doing is live tweeting their insomnia.
Guest:Yeah, it's such a, I feel like.
Marc:This was funny.
Marc:This woman wrote, I guess she writes for maybe Kim or some Molly McNerney.
Marc:McNerney.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She tweeted, we've given everyone an opportunity to express themselves online for a very long time now.
Marc:What's plan B?
Guest:That's great.
Guest:That's... Yeah.
Guest:That's the best tweet I've read in a long time.
Guest:Because, like, what's... Like, think about this, like, 30 years from now.
Guest:It's like, Grandpa, what did you do when this thing... Well, you should have seen.
Guest:I used to go on this thing and...
Guest:you know these celebrities had these accounts and i'd go on and just uh chip away at them until i finally reel one in and there was one time when i was arguing with uh you should have seen it it was like like those are the things he got all worked up yeah he deleted his account it's so great
Guest:That was the one.
Guest:It's like the new hole in one.
Guest:It's like getting somebody to delete their account because you just wouldn't stop.
Guest:Annoying them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, you know, it was different then.
Guest:It was fun.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now we don't know what to do with ourselves.
Guest:That's true.
Marc:It took me a long time to frame it like that.
Marc:That no matter how insanely cruel it became or how ridiculously hurtful, that it was just some idiot trying to get you to fucking lose your mind.
Guest:Yeah, it's the opposite.
Guest:It just goes back to the thing where the opposite of love is not hate.
Guest:It's just disinterest, and that's the true opposite of love.
Guest:So it's just like, no, hate and love, it's just attention.
Guest:It's just like you're making somebody's levels spike, and it's just like, I feel something.
Yeah.
Guest:Like, he's mad.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, I got him.
Guest:Here we go.
Guest:I got him.
Marc:Oh, you got a big one there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You think you have a system of dealing with it through engagement, and then it just never pans out.
Guest:And then there's the inevitable two years go by then.
Guest:Hey, will you unblock me?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You're doing something somewhere else.
Marc:I think I said something to you a while ago, and it wasn't really what I meant.
Guest:Sure, it was.
Guest:It's exactly what you meant.
Marc:I don't unblock them.
Marc:I'll unblock them.
Marc:You do?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I had this one time I thought, like I said, I think I'm just going to unblock everybody.
Marc:And I think Doug Benson said, bad idea.
Guest:Because you're like, why?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's like a Batman movie where it's just like somebody throws a switch and the Arkham Asylum opens and everybody runs out at once.
Yeah.
Marc:like oh no what'd we do the city's overrun by super villains all at the same time and now you can hear what they're all saying i i think it's just old manny of me on some ways but like obviously i'm being somewhat sarcastic but i like there's a there's part of me that misses the days when there's just three networks and
Marc:Not all the information was out there.
Marc:It wasn't out there.
Marc:And certainly the behind-the-scenes information wasn't the mainstream of what information was, or just the gossip and speculation wasn't what the mainstream information was.
Marc:It's like you can really isolate yourself.
Marc:No one needs to be on the same page anymore, and it used to be okay in a way.
Marc:Maybe we didn't know some shit, but at least we were kind of talking about the same thing culturally.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I would agree if it doesn't mean that there's just like this veil of evil going on that like when people are just like, yeah, you know, they are beating the shit out of people when we just don't talk about, we just don't see.
Marc:It's the give and take of that.
Marc:No, I think that I'd like journalism and that element of sort of guerrilla journalism and people taking upon themselves to sort of seek justice and stuff.
Marc:That's sort of a good part of the internet.
Marc:That's stuff that's really...
Marc:Revealing injustice and hypocrisy is great.
Marc:But the other 99% of it, that is just positing false information, conspiracy theories and bullshit, and then people who are just working people's desires and anger into a froth for certain reasons on purpose.
Marc:Maybe I just can't wrap my brain around the whole thing.
Guest:But you also can just say this isn't the real world.
Guest:It's real until you say it's not real.
Guest:And then it's like, okay, it turns out it wasn't real.
Guest:How about that?
Guest:I could just get off Twitter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And after maybe a month, I wouldn't even think about it anymore.
Guest:And then you'll just be like, oh, okay, there's all these other things.
Guest:How about that?
Guest:When are we going to do that?
Guest:I started.
Guest:It's going very slowly.
Guest:I'm not on Facebook anymore.
Guest:Yeah, I just don't go there.
Guest:Twitter, I don't see what people tweet anymore.
Guest:I have a tweet deck thing set up, so I just see what people will tweet to me.
Guest:To you, okay.
Guest:So you're weaning yourself, maybe.
Guest:Yeah, and it just...
Guest:I don't even know how good of a promotional thing it is.
Guest:That seems like something Twitter created.
Guest:Oh, no.
Marc:It's like you don't know what someone's feed looks like.
Marc:If they're following 2,000 people and you're like, I'm going to be in Denver.
Marc:And then 90 people from Denver are like, I didn't know you were coming.
Marc:I'm like, I tweeted it.
Marc:I'm like, sorry, I'm following 2,000 people.
Marc:It was pretty quick.
Guest:When did you expect me to...
Marc:to track that like i'm scrolling through everything okay when did he tweet that well he's in los angeles so i should go go he tweeted i was asleep when he there's so much but there's so much bullshit to the numbers yeah general yeah this is real life right out here tom that's where it is just behind those windows people in their sad couches
Guest:yeah it's it's it's okay to not live on the computer and that's i would i'm thinking i've been i've been contemplating it's like i went i went with my mother to uh to nashville a month ago just me and my mother we went for a few days because she had never been and i was like i'll take you and i'll show you the city and and uh
Guest:But she just has, like, this phone that just makes phone calls.
Guest:And I guess she could text on it if she wanted.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I was like, yeah, I think I like your phone better than mine.
Guest:Like, my phone, first of all, is a terrible phone.
Guest:Like, iPhones, they're bad as phones.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, there's a definite rollback in phone quality.
Yeah.
Guest:You can't lay down with them.
Marc:No.
Marc:Because then your voice breaks up.
Marc:Does that happen on yours, too, when you lay down?
Marc:People are like, I can't understand you now.
Guest:I have this iPhone 6S, I guess, 6 Plus or whatever.
Guest:And it's just like, I've never had more people say, like, I can't hear you right now.
Guest:I can't hear you.
Guest:It's like, what is the newer phone?
Guest:Okay, that's great.
Guest:They didn't space the thing out to where I can hear you and talk to you.
Guest:It doesn't line up with a human head.
Guest:You're holding a book to your head.
Guest:Something the size of a paperback.
Guest:There's a definite rollback in that.
Guest:They're not...
Guest:One of these phones, now they got rid of the headphone jack in the next iPhone.
Guest:It's just like, yeah, there's no headphone jack in it.
Guest:We won't use wireless headphones.
Guest:I was like, I don't want to use wireless.
Guest:What about these $300 Bose headphones I bought?
Guest:Oh, I can't use those with my iPhone anymore.
Guest:I guess I have to hook them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But there's just going to be an iPhone's going to come out and they're going to be like, yeah, there's no phone on this one this time.
Guest:They're just going to eventually decide they don't want people making phone calls anymore.
Guest:Just like, nah, there's no phone.
Guest:We eliminated the phone part of the iPhone.
Marc:Only texting.
Marc:Well, I was just home in New Mexico where I was talking to friends of mine from high school.
Marc:And it's just the idea that
Marc:I live down in the valley, which is far from my other friends, but there was no fucking internet.
Marc:There was no fucking cell phones.
Marc:You had to call someone at home and go, oh, hi, Mrs. Meter.
Marc:Is Connor there?
Marc:And you're like, okay, I'll hold on.
Marc:Hey, what are you doing?
Marc:All right, I'll meet you up at the place.
Marc:And that was it.
Marc:That was the last time you communicate with anybody until you went and found them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What were you doing?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Imagine you're at...
Guest:a rock show and you all got out of the car and somebody gets separated now you're just like i really hope i remember what color shirt he was wearing because i don't know i hope he remembers where the car is after because i guess i'm not seeing you yeah exactly and then but then somebody's like sitting on the hood of the car for two hours where were you
Guest:just wanted like i've been sitting here the whole time i didn't see any of the bands i thought we were gonna hang out yeah just like it was like that's what it was like yeah just like you couldn't and that guy's got that story the other side of that story those assholes they took off they're in that thing watching everything like
Guest:I'm stuck here in the car with the thing.
Guest:It's my car.
Guest:They have the keys.
Guest:He drove.
Guest:I can't even get in my own car.
Guest:See, that's what we're missing now.
Guest:That doesn't happen anymore.
Guest:Sitting alone, stewing.
Guest:Because now, if you went to meet somebody and they just didn't show up, you used to just have to go...
Guest:Because it's been an hour.
Guest:How long am I going to sit here?
Guest:And they're not going to know I left.
Guest:And it's just like, you're just playing the mystery.
Guest:And no phone to look at.
Marc:Just you and your imagination.
Guest:Like, what the fuck happened?
Guest:What did I do?
Guest:Staring at a placemat on a table.
Guest:Now I'm not ready to order yet.
Guest:I'm still one other person supposed to be coming.
Guest:Just, I know I'm tying this table up now.
Guest:And then you're just like, I guess I got to go.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I'll just buy coffee to go.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Coffee to go.
Guest:Oh, great.
Guest:Thanks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All right, buddy.
Guest:It's always good to talk to you.
Guest:It is.
Guest:I'm laughing my ass off.
Guest:We're doing good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This is one thing I think.
Guest:Just because you don't have everything doesn't mean you don't have anything.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's like I have plenty.
Guest:Right.
Guest:A lot to be grateful for.
Guest:Yes, I do have a lot to be grateful.
Guest:I try to be grateful, and sometimes I can't.
Guest:Sometimes I can get so in touch with being grateful, and it's just so comfortable.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then there's other times where it's just like...
Guest:I cannot feel the gratitude.
Guest:No.
Guest:It's a horrible injustice.
Guest:What do you want me?
Guest:I just get irritated with trying a little.
Guest:You should just think about what you've got.
Guest:I don't have anything.
Guest:That's the problem.
Guest:Like, I do think about that, and I have literally nothing.
Guest:And then you go look at your records.
Guest:And then I'm going to go into my car.
Guest:Okay, well, there's one thing you have.
Guest:There's hundreds of thousands of people in America just saying, like, a car.
Guest:If I only had a car, I could go get that job, and then I could get out of this house where it's a living hell in here.
Guest:And meanwhile, I'm just like, I'm going to get my car and just go...
Guest:My stupid car that's filthy in the back seat because I had all that stuff I was throwing out all over the back seat.
Guest:Yeah, so I will try more gratitude.
Guest:All right, talk to you later.
FBI!
CIA!
Guest:It's in your head.
Guest:It's the other way you build a balloon mainstream.
Guest:It's the other way you build a balloon mainstream.
Guest:It's the other way you build a balloon mainstream.
It's the other way you build a balloon mainstream.
It's the other way you build a balloon mainstream.