WTF Uncovered - The Lost Marc and Tom Show
Marc:All right, folks, here we go with another WTF Uncovered episode from the vaults.
Marc:As some of you know, the Mark and Tom show with me and Tom Sharpling is something we used to produce as individual episodes for sale on iTunes.
Marc:You can hear all the ones we did now on Howl Premium, Howl.fm.
Marc:At one point, Tom and I recorded two episodes in one session.
Marc:We released the first one on iTunes, and the plan was to release the second one a few months later.
Marc:In the meantime, though, we entered into negotiations about the future of our archives, and we weren't sure what impact of any deal would have on episodes we put on iTunes.
Marc:So we didn't want to put any additional episodes up until we figured out what we were doing.
Marc:It's clear now.
Marc:That second episode that we did in that hotel room in Philadelphia in 2013 did not see the light of day.
Marc:Because by the time all was said and done, we just waited too long to put it up.
Marc:So now, with love in my heart and joy in my spirit, I share with you the lost story.
Marc:Mark and Tom episode.
Marc:This was recorded, as I said, in a hotel room in Philadelphia in the winter of 2013.
Marc:Let's go there now.
Guest:All right, so we're doing it again.
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is Tom Sharp.
Guest:Yeah, this is exciting.
Marc:It's been a while.
Marc:It has been a long time, but if you just move to Los Angeles your entire life, we could do this more frequently.
Guest:I don't even know where I live in L.A.
Guest:What neighborhood?
Guest:Silver Lake.
Guest:Would I end up in Silver Lake?
Marc:I think you'd probably start in Los Feliz.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:You know, maybe out where I live, I think you could find yourself an affordable house.
Marc:But that would make it easier.
Marc:But though, meeting in hotel rooms is something.
Marc:We're in a Philadelphia hotel room this time.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Before we were in a New Brunswick hotel room.
Guest:Yeah, and now we seem to be doing these around your performance schedule.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Well, okay, so the next one, maybe we should meet somewhere in the middle of the country for no other reason than to do this.
Marc:St.
Marc:Louis.
Marc:We'll meet in St.
Marc:Louis only if this one does really well.
Marc:We'll put a little extra pressure on our listeners to get us to St.
Marc:Louis.
Marc:Sure, a road show.
Marc:I was wondering what those... Not in front of people.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:Tom and I want to do a road show for ourselves.
Marc:So please, I hope you enjoy this purchase and get your friends to purchase it because Tom and I want to meet in St.
Marc:Louis.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:As far as views go from hotel rooms, this is one of the best I've ever seen.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:On one side, you've got the water and then you've got the city over here laid out on the other side.
Marc:And just down there is where...
Marc:The Constitution and Declaration of Independence of this fine country was fought about and conceived of.
Marc:I'm not clear on the history of whether or not.
Marc:Was it signed there?
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:I'm so bad with that stuff.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I was just going to ask how many wah-wahs we could count from up here.
Guest:What's a Wawa?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:What's a Wawa?
Guest:It's a convenience store chain.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:But it's a very Philadelphia, Maryland-type chain and really good sandwiches at Wawa.
Guest:And they have a touchscreen.
Guest:You go in, you just punch what you want on the touchscreen, and then they make it.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:See, now I'm torn.
Marc:I don't know whether to go to a Wawa or go see Independence Hall.
Guest:I think Wawa is the current, it's the embodiment of everything that our forefathers fought for.
Marc:All right, maybe I'll go to both.
Guest:Yeah, I think you can, well, you can go to Wawa, get a sandwich, get a...
Marc:Yeah, and then walk over.
Guest:Six-inch shorty, as they call them.
Guest:Six-inch shorty, yeah.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Bring it over to the Liberty Bell.
Marc:Bring it over to the Liberty Bell.
Marc:Sit down and eat it and reflect.
Marc:And then go look at Ben Franklin's print shop.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Or post office or whatever the fuck he did.
Marc:He did things.
Marc:It's a nice city to walk around in.
Marc:Well, I'm happy we're in Philadelphia.
Marc:I'm happy we're doing this.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I have this...
Marc:I'm hung up on this integrity idea, the authenticity, but then you realize that nothing's made good.
Marc:Even the brands that you're supposed to believe in is garbage.
Marc:Everything's designed to just self-destruct within a couple years, so you buy the exact same thing again with a new, planned obsolescence is everything.
Marc:That's the whole thing.
Guest:Yeah, it's amazing when,
Guest:Like, I was at my parents' house.
Guest:They were working on their basement.
Guest:And they still had the TV that I bought when I was, like, 15.
Guest:And it still worked.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was this amazing... It's like... It's a relic.
Guest:How does this thing still work?
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, over 25 years later, this TV is still functional.
Guest:It's like the idea of...
Guest:my flat screen tv it's like like five years now was like like let's just make it past yeah you five and then um then it's like an antique yeah you got to get a new one because the technology changed so quickly yeah and i i was thinking about the other day i i bought that beatles box
Marc:I bought the Beatles box.
Marc:The vinyl.
Marc:The Beatles box.
Marc:The vinyl Beatles box.
Marc:And I really started to try to calculate just how many times and how many different formats I've bought those fucking records in.
Marc:And how many other ones, like, you know, I know that I had Let It Be on vinyl originally.
Marc:And then I probably had it on cassette.
Marc:And then, like, I'm a little, like, I didn't buy A-Track, so I wasn't driving yet.
Marc:But I bought Let It Be Naked.
Marc:And I probably bought it on CD.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:So now I just bought it again.
Marc:How much have I contributed to that cause?
Marc:It's a worthy cause.
Yeah.
Marc:You have the children of Paul McCartney and John Lennon.
Guest:It's funny because I am a consumer of that and I'm a subscriber to clubs.
Guest:But the thing you and I have in common is that we also are the president of clubs.
Guest:I have my radio show.
Guest:It's like a club that I'm the CEO of.
Guest:And you for WTF, you are.
Guest:I never think of myself as a leader, though.
Guest:But you are.
Guest:You're the face of the thing.
Guest:You're like the Steve Jobs of WTF.
Guest:Because when you go, it goes.
Marc:Look, I just bought a new Apple computer.
Marc:And that was after the death.
Marc:That's a post-Jobs computer over there.
Marc:So Apple's doing okay without him.
Guest:I think they're going to be all right.
Guest:Touch and go there.
Guest:Who's going to slide into the host slot?
Guest:On WTF.
Marc:But I just don't know what it is about this authenticity thing.
Marc:What do you get out of records?
Guest:When it's the right record and you're playing vinyl on something, there is a feeling there.
Guest:You can feel...
Guest:Because it's being created by a physical, there's a physical process happening for that sound to come out.
Guest:And I really do feel like you can feel that.
Guest:When things are recorded, when it's the right record, I feel like I can feel the room in which they recorded the record.
Guest:Like you can feel the air.
Marc:Yeah, I think that's true.
Marc:I like that.
Guest:You feel the space.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I knew Bruce Springsteen was big when on...
Guest:when he was going to do Darkness on the Edge of Town, a recording studio, when the technology gets better, the rooms get smaller.
Guest:And then you get into that thing where you're making Steely Dan albums, where it's all about having mics all the way up on things so that you can record everything.
Guest:And then the room is... It doesn't matter.
Guest:Yeah, it's beside the point.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because it's only about the 18 inches between the bass drum and that mic.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And his big thing was he wanted to record the room.
Guest:The room was as essential as the instruments in the room.
Marc:It's a ritual space.
Guest:Yeah, and I feel like you can feel that on those records.
Guest:If it's a record that was recorded that way, it's a sense of presence that comes through.
Guest:Yeah, I'm appreciating it.
Guest:Yeah, and that's how I feel about... I think that's why I don't like...
Guest:Steely Dan.
Guest:I never got it.
Guest:No, I never, ever.
Marc:The people that are into them, they're like, oh, it's the most well-produced.
Marc:I don't like it.
Guest:To me, a Steely Dan record is the kind of thing the dude at the stereo store plays.
Guest:To sell you the stereo.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like, listen to that.
Guest:You hear that?
Guest:You hear all those instruments in there?
Guest:It's like, I'm not buying a stereo today.
Guest:I don't need to hear this thing that way.
Guest:I'm not trying to check out the kick drum.
Guest:It's like, listen to that keyboard.
Guest:You hear that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Look how full it is.
Guest:It's like, that's what Steely Dan is to me.
Guest:It's like audio demonstration records that actual people like also.
Marc:But I find myself listening to all those records I had in high school.
Marc:And I just hope I'm, my fear is like, am I like that guy?
Marc:Like I'm now I'm all nostalgic.
Guest:When it all clicks, how does it make you feel?
Marc:I've never understood the depth of the music.
Marc:The thing that resonates the most with me is this sense of longing for this romanticization of women that might have been in my class.
Marc:Or some waitress I worked with in high school where I'd play the wild one forever and I'd picture her, this unattainable perfection that I couldn't have.
Marc:I was such a fucking romantic when I was younger.
Marc:I just thought all the answers were there and it was just so far away from anything I could get.
Marc:It's all about women.
Marc:Do you remember your first girlfriend?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Look, nobody liked me.
Guest:I can kind of admit I was horrible.
Guest:If I have a spot that I was horrible at, it was that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was just terrible.
Guest:Couldn't ask people out.
Guest:Covered in sweat.
Guest:Ended up just hiding from everybody.
Guest:And then thankfully...
Guest:The woman who became my wife kind of finds me and just like, all right, I see.
Guest:I see the problem.
Guest:It's like a fixer-upper.
Guest:It's like, all right, I think we can work with this.
Guest:And then, yeah, I would have been one of those guys who's just kind of like,
Guest:just, you know, date somebody and then, you know, five years and then they kind of, it's like, wow, what are we going to do here now?
Guest:It's time to get married.
Guest:I'm breaking up.
Guest:Like, and they break up the relationship when it's just like, I can't handle the next step in things.
Guest:And then they just never go find anybody.
Guest:And then that person's like, well, I'm just going to go find someone.
Guest:I'm going to go grow up then and marry somebody.
Guest:And then they run into them later.
Guest:It's like, you know, like,
Guest:Yeah, I never dated anybody.
Guest:Never had anybody after you.
Guest:Oh, you're married.
Guest:You got two kids now.
Guest:Oh, that's fantastic.
Guest:You kept growing.
Guest:You want your records back?
Guest:And then you talk about it, you know.
Marc:Has that happened to you where you run into the exes that have lives?
Guest:No.
Guest:Honestly, I have nothing.
Guest:I have so...
Guest:little interest in parts of my past that it's just a thing where it's like i just you know i'll own i'm gonna say this is like from this point on is my life you know it's like high school was so bad that i'm like i just don't you just it's like i don't have to
Guest:I will own that it happened.
Guest:I'm not denying it.
Guest:I'll own that it happened, and I will incorporate it into my life.
Guest:I think it's a very unhealthy thing when people deny parts of their life.
Guest:Just like, no, that was a horrible stretch.
Guest:I'm denying it.
Guest:I'm just putting it in a box because it will find you.
Guest:It'll come out in a weird way that you're not ready for.
Guest:Like as a tumor.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yes, as a tumor.
Marc:With your high school mascot on it.
Guest:Yes, a giant eagle.
Guest:Yeah, I got a hornet.
Guest:It's weird.
Guest:You have a hornet melanoma.
Marc:I know what that is.
Marc:That's grades 9 through 12 there.
Guest:Yeah, but I will own it.
Guest:It is a part of my narrative, but it also does not mean I need to...
Guest:focus on it anymore you know what i mean it's like no that sucked i'm i don't want to did it suck it all sucked i think so i i was not um but isn't that where you discovered music and and heartbreak oh yeah and sure the things i will take the things from it that still work now i'll pick and choose but you get to that that thing where it's like
Guest:Ultimately, the thing that sucked about it the most is just how mediocre it was.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It was just nothing in a way.
Guest:I wasn't in with the cool kids.
Guest:I wasn't in with...
Guest:the burnouts or the smart kids i was just in this other group that just the floaters that just made fun of all the other groups right and it's like what a sad group of friends that was like the undefined nerd group oh yeah those were the nerds without focus yes yeah it's like it's like i have better musical taste than the nerds right like they like horrible like they would um
Guest:Do you remember that Styx did that album?
Guest:Kill Roy was here.
Guest:It was like they did this concept album.
Marc:Is that after Grand Illusion or before?
Guest:It's after.
Guest:I think nothing came after that with Styx.
Guest:I think it broke the band up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was the one that had that Mr. Roboto, like just the dumbest.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I remember these kids in high school, the nerdy kids were just like, we're going to see Styx.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're doing the Mr. Roboto concept tour.
Guest:And like, and then I was reading about it, like in Rolling Stone or something.
Guest:And it's like, they came out.
Guest:I've actually gone back.
Guest:I've watched video of it.
Guest:Like sticks would come out.
Guest:They did like 10 minutes of acting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Before they played one song.
Marc:Was that guy's name Tommy Shaw?
Guest:Tommy Shaw and Dennis DeYoung.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was this thing.
Guest:I was like, if you watch it online, the greatest part of it is there's one that John Worcester talks about where there was like a Texas, the Texas jam, like the big show where it's like, it was like Ted Nugent, Sammy Hagar.
Guest:It's outside.
Guest:Everybody's drunk and it's in Texas.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And now, like, Sammy Hagar just finishes playing.
Guest:This guy's running around.
Guest:He's, you know, pumping the crowd up.
Marc:He's just sit on top of a stack of speakers with a lap steel and do, like, a mean motor scooter or whatever the hell it was.
Guest:The Montrose song.
Guest:Yeah, the Montrose.
Guest:But he's pumping the crowd.
Guest:He's got the crowds going crazy.
Guest:Then all of a sudden, sticks come out and act for 10 minutes.
Guest:did you imagine how in texas a show in texas drunk texans yeah hey sticks are playing maybe they'll come out they'll do uh i guess they'll do renegade yeah no no this is different guys we're gonna do we got a scene we'd like to yeah we're gonna set the story it's the future and rock and roll has been outlawed
Guest:Because in every musical, every rock opera, rock is illegal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's the only way to make it interesting.
Guest:Yeah, because there's... Yeah.
Guest:What do we got to fight for?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So these kids came in at school, and they're just like, we saw this Styx, Kilroy was here, and it was the greatest thing I've ever seen in my life.
Guest:And it's like, we're going again to...
Guest:Like they're playing Nassau Coliseum.
Guest:Because in New Jersey, you grow up, it'd be like, you could go to the Meadowlands.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You could go to, like you actually had Philly.
Guest:Madison Square Garden.
Guest:You could drive down to.
Guest:Yeah, you could go Philly, Meadowlands, Madison Square Garden, or Long Island.
Guest:You go to the Nassau Coliseum.
Guest:So it was like you have four shots at any...
Guest:band coming through yeah and they're just like yeah we got tickets for uh nassau coliseum and it was one of those ones where um you find out it was like a half full arena like right all the sticks fans got off board but these dorks were still the only like so and then six broke up after that right travesty but it's like that's who i was like no that sucks i'm not a part of your terrible music scene
Guest:I'm over here with better records, like Husker Du albums and stuff.
Guest:And then you're.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You guys are holding on to the ghost.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Of what rock was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the burnouts are kind of like.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Sticks suck.
Guest:You guys.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're Sabbath.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I just.
Guest:I remember I went to see Madness.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Live.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:One Step Beyond.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:One Step Beyond.
Guest:Our House.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that was later Madness.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I remember a kid in school was... This kid came in and he was just... He started... He made fun of me because the drummer in Madness's drum set was so small compared to Neil Peart's drum set.
Guest:It's like, that guy doesn't even have rototoms on his drum set.
Guest:Where's the gong?
Guest:But as if like...
Guest:The drummer from Madness is just saving his money trying to eventually build a drum set.
Guest:That's why he doesn't have that drum set because he sucks is why he doesn't have it.
Guest:It's just stuff.
Guest:The guy in Madness could buy roto toms and a gong and an ice bell and all that stuff.
Marc:When I was in high school, my buddy Dave, who's dead now, he's a big Journey fan.
Marc:He's a Nugent fan.
Marc:So I ended up seeing a lot of bands that I didn't necessarily like.
Marc:But I used to work for a guy at the Posh Bagel, it was called.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:It's Brooklyn Jew named Eddie Waxman, who was this lunatic on and off cocaine dude.
Marc:But he let me manage shifts.
Marc:And I was 15.
Marc:It was right across from the college.
Marc:It's a big life changer.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:but he eventually got into the racket of catering and we would cater concerts.
Marc:And I ended up like, you know, working these concerts, like, and they weren't like the greatest array of concerts.
Marc:Like the ones I remember is like, you know, it was in, cause even, you know, backstage would have been a big deal, you know, in high school.
Marc:Like, this is awesome.
Marc:And I think some of these were probably big deals to people, but like, like Toto, like we did.
Marc:And I'm like, I don't even give a shit about Toto.
Marc:I mean, I couldn't even identify a member of Toto.
Yeah.
Marc:And then we did Journey, which was okay.
Marc:But then Rush, we did Rush, which would have been a big deal to people.
Marc:People who like Rush, they fucking love Rush.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And now you're talking like this is like permanent waves and moving pictures.
Marc:It's probably 78.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Prime Rush.
Marc:Yeah, they're big.
Marc:yeah and uh i just remember like you know alec leafson is that his name yeah alex leafson and giddy lee were in a dressing room and and alex leafson was sitting there with a classical guitar on on the you know on the left leg or however the hell you do that you know practicing yeah and uh and it was too hot in the dressing room and he needed a fan to sit in front of him while he played classical guitar before the show
Marc:And Eddie, it wasn't really his job to get Alec Leifson a fan, but he took it upon himself.
Marc:So he sent me to his home way up by the mountain to pick up a fucking fan for Alec Leifson so he would be comfortable while he noodled on his nylon string guitar.
Marc:And I hated them.
Marc:I hated them because of that.
Marc:They were such pompous cunts that I was like...
Marc:fuck them for making me go get a fan when I could have been watching the opening band.
Marc:Yeah, so that's my feeling on that.
Guest:It is those personal, when anything becomes personal like that.
Marc:Yeah, it's over.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, there's always that disappointment.
Marc:But like in terms of like the girl thing though,
Marc:Cause I was trying to think about it.
Marc:Like I was on the plane yesterday and actually I was laying in bed last night.
Marc:I don't have insomnia generally, but occasionally I'll just run, you know, the reel of disappointments, you know, the, you know, to go back over, you know, how did I, those missteps or why didn't, you know, how come like I dated her for three months and then she immediately went out and fucked that guy and would not fuck me.
Marc:You know, like those things.
Marc:Like, how was I the warm-up guy?
Marc:You know, what did I not possess that would enable me just to have that out of the way?
Marc:I could have had that virginity thing out of the way.
Marc:But no, no, I did not have the key to the lock.
Guest:But with those things, do you think...
Guest:Whenever I go on those tears like that, the parade of failures and... Almost.
Guest:Yeah, and regrets and missteps.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:At some point, it's like I have to just say, if I'm happy with where I am right now, that was a part of what got me to where I am right now.
Guest:But it does not mean these things...
Guest:dim at all though it's like they still scream at you you're still the same guy just like you would have just stood up for yourself yeah that one time and it's like the times when i just took it like oh my god like i worked because i worked in insane i started working so young for whatever weird
Guest:It's one of those things is like, I like buying records.
Guest:I like to be able to buy my own records.
Guest:And I'm like, so naturally the leap with my family is it's just like, sure, go get a job at 12.
Guest:Like nobody being like, yeah, well, he does like records.
Guest:So where'd you work?
Guest:I mean, I had a paper route, but then I worked at this diner.
Guest:I was like a busboy at a diner.
Guest:I was like 13.
Guest:And...
Guest:I just remember they would just scream at me.
Guest:Like, the owner of this place, his name was Bill.
Guest:I can still just picture him.
Guest:And then his sister was a brother-sister thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Greek diner.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Bill and Effie.
Guest:And...
Guest:I was like, guy's like, he's like yelling, he's like, go get the milk.
Guest:Like, you know those things in the den, it's a giant, the giant chrome.
Guest:The giant chrome thing where it's like a box of milk goes in, there's like a little tube.
Marc:Yeah, it's a milk box with a big bag of milk in it.
Guest:Yes, big bag of milk and there's like a tube that comes off of it.
Guest:Yeah, you gotta cut it.
Marc:Run it through that hole where the weighted thing is.
Guest:Absolutely, yes.
Guest:That you can lift up and the milk comes out like a pincher.
Guest:So I'm, it's like...
Guest:put the thing in.
Guest:And it's like, nobody tells me how to do it.
Guest:So I go grab this thing from the freezer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm carrying the thing in.
Guest:I was trying to set it up.
Guest:It's a packed Saturday.
Guest:Like everyone's at the counter, all the booths.
Guest:I'm dragging this thing.
Guest:I open the thing, take the empty box out.
Guest:I'm trying to put the thing in, trying to get it.
Guest:And it's, it's not fitting.
Guest:And it's like, now it's like I cut it and I cut it too early.
Guest:And I like the milk's like, it's like a Jerry Lewis routine.
Guest:You can't stop the milk.
Guest:It's screaming, like screaming at me.
Guest:And it's like, I just think of if I just as a kid just said, you know what?
Guest:you know fuck you and your milk i'm out of here you know it's like it's like you're i'm making 350 an hour or whatever i'm like like just garbage money even as a kid it's kind of garbage yeah if i would have just stood up for myself like who would i be it might be like governor or something governor sharp yes i could have been president sharp when governor you don't know it's like but i just was like i'm so sorry i'm just like apologizing yeah
Guest:many towels yeah oh my god yeah and the but the like all the the costa rican guys are trying to help me now because they just like they're getting yelled at all day but it's like like those moments where i just took it yeah i think that said those set my like my mechanics in place like i'm always operating from from that template in a way and otherwise now i have to
Guest:I have to like override that.
Guest:Cause somehow that got just like tattooed.
Guest:Like, boom, that's there forever.
Guest:You're the guy that's going to take it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For just like forever on you.
Guest:And it's like, I don't know if you can get rid of those things.
Marc:My, my thing was, I was always the guy, I was a sucker and that's something I fight against actively.
Marc:Cause my father was a sucker.
Marc:These people would come into this place.
Marc:It was right across from the universities, right across from Yale park, which was sort of famous for like, you know,
Marc:If there was sort of a lunatic central, it was right in this area in New Mexico.
Marc:So these homeless guys and these people that should be in hospitals were wandering around in different versions of talking to themselves.
Marc:And there was three or four of them that were always around.
Marc:There was one guy that wore too many, had scarves tied all over him.
Marc:There was another guy that had matted hair.
Marc:And then there was this other guy named Pete.
Marc:who used to talk to himself and draw pictures.
Marc:These really elaborate pictures.
Marc:He's a schizophrenic.
Marc:But he used to come in, and I'd indulge them, and I'd have them come in.
Marc:And one time, there was this one homeless guy that used to come in, and he was scary.
Marc:And I took a picture of him, because I took photography in high school.
Marc:And I put him in a posh bagel hat, and I took a picture of him.
Marc:And I hung it up right behind the counter as an employee of the week, that kind of thing.
Marc:And Eddie comes in.
Marc:He's like, who the fuck?
Marc:Put that down.
Marc:Where's that hat that you gave him?
Marc:But I had a lot invested in Pete.
Marc:Because I always thought that crazy people were geniuses.
Marc:So Pete would draw these pictures and write these things that made no sense.
Marc:But I thought he was a genius.
Marc:So I would buy him coffee all day and have him hang around.
Marc:And I brought him to my house.
Marc:He was like a stray dog or something.
Marc:And my mother knew him and stuff.
Marc:And he eventually kind of lost it.
Marc:And I got fascinated with him.
Marc:And, but I was always sort of taken advantage of by people.
Marc:I was never sort of, you know, it wasn't the situation where I was spoken to, you know, or talked down to or, or put in my place in any way.
Marc:But I always, you know, I was always the guy that's sort of like, yeah, I'll, I'll give you a hundred dollars.
Marc:What do you need a hundred dollars for?
Marc:You know?
Marc:Oh yeah, sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:You'll give it back to me.
Marc:I was that guy.
Marc:I was easy Mark.
Marc:And that, because I wanted to be connected to these people, to criminals.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now when people, if somebody asked you in a thing where you,
Guest:Did you know you were playing a, do you know you're playing that part in a thing when it's like the lending of money?
Guest:Do you know, or, or is it a new thing every time?
Guest:Like, like where, where's the awareness on?
Marc:Well, I have to just shut myself down to it because I think that it's like William Burroughs said, you can't hide the mark inside.
Marc:Like if you're that guy, you're that guy.
Marc:And people who are looking for a mark are going to find you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So at some point you just have to go against your instincts and say, no, I don't want, I don't want that as collateral.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:You know, like, you know, there's some guy that was supposedly a musician of some kind that, you know, he needed $500.
Marc:I didn't have $500.
Marc:But my dad is also a sucker.
Marc:I knew he had $500.
Marc:This guy was going to give us a 45 Magnum pistol as collateral.
Marc:So somehow or another, you know, my dad agreed to let me give this guy $500 and for me to pick up this gun.
Marc:So, you know, I brought this gun home.
Marc:And so now we have this giant gun.
Marc:The guy can't pay back the thing.
Marc:We don't want the gun.
Marc:We end up giving him the gun back.
Marc:And
Marc:You know, letting the whole fucking thing go.
Marc:He's a con man, you know, whatever.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But like I have that in my genetics and that frightens me.
Marc:Oh, yeah, because.
Marc:Because you never know when you're going to get played.
Marc:So I just don't engage in those conversations.
Guest:It forces you.
Guest:Like you said, you have to shut down.
Guest:Because if you shut down, the door is closed.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Nobody can come through.
Marc:But given both of our situations, you've got that thing where you're being dressed down by morons.
Marc:Yeah, I've got the nice guy.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But anytime we act to protect ourselves or stop that from happening, there's no grace to that.
Marc:Because it's always like, no, no, no.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, I can't.
Guest:Because you're fighting with yourself in front of this person that's doing what hits those buttons.
Guest:So there's no cool to it.
Guest:So even when you're making the right decisions to not be that guy, you're completely graceless in it.
Guest:I start to double down when I should be walking away from the table.
Guest:It's like, no, no, no.
Guest:I know you're completely making me feel like garbage.
Guest:But if I just try twice as hard, you're going to admit I'm a nice guy.
Guest:So you keep looking for the, like, there.
Guest:You just don't know you like me.
Guest:Yeah, I'm going to win you over.
Guest:Even though it's just, I feel horrible.
Guest:You're making me feel terrible.
Guest:And you're a terrible person.
Guest:I can get, I can get you on my, and then I go complain about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In my, you know, I was like, oh, can you believe these people with the, it's like, well, there is like, it's like, it's a different kind of mark where it's like, it is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and they've won.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They've gotten what they got needed from, from whatever your direction is.
Guest:And for the rest of your life, you're like, oh, there was this time.
Guest:Let me just ask you when you, with the mark.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just, there's one thing about that.
Guest:if you're going into a coffee shop and you come out and some guy has a story.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, yeah, I missed the bus.
Guest:My car broke down.
Guest:I need a bus ticket.
Marc:I mean, it's always, there's an amount too.
Marc:I need, I need $2 and 16 cents.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Do you give a guy like that money?
Marc:Not that guy.
Marc:Not that one.
Marc:Not the exact amount scam.
Marc:He's like, I only need $4.27 to get a bus ticket back to New York.
Guest:I'll always give that person a couple dollars just because I always feel like if they're working that hard,
Guest:to tell us to, to tell me a story.
Guest:It's almost like that's the story I'm paying for somebody who's working.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:That's their job.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:But like, if it's the, you know, the weird amount story, I don't like that.
Marc:And there used to be a guy on the Lower East Side or where actually when I lived on 16th street,
Marc:that would run around sort of dressed like a business guy in a way.
Marc:He had like a portfolio and some other things, but his story was always sort of like, I just got robbed.
Marc:But I'd see him do this, like every couple weeks I'd see him around doing this.
Marc:And the scariest thing you can do for yourself in those situations, because this happened to me in the speaker scam too.
Marc:You remember that one where there'd be the guys in the van
Marc:hey, we got a couple extra speakers here.
Guest:Overstock.
Marc:Yeah, overstock, right.
Marc:That thing.
Marc:I bought those ones.
Marc:The empty speakers.
Marc:Yeah, I bought those.
Marc:But don't get righteous because the next time a couple of those guys come up, they're always kind of burly, the speaker scam guys.
Marc:They're like sort of, hey, you know, we got a little overstock.
Marc:And I'm like, I know what you're doing.
Marc:It's like, oh, do you?
Marc:Why don't you shut the fuck up?
Marc:Yeah, because you're going to ruin it for me.
Marc:I felt my life was like I was in trouble by calling them out on it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because they're criminals.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I had that.
Guest:I had an opportunity going back during, this is like the early 90s.
Guest:I had access to a Ticketmaster machine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was like CMJ was going on.
Guest:And Nirvana were playing the Roseland Ballroom.
Guest:So it's like, I got eight tickets, and I was just like, I'm going to scalp these tickets.
Guest:There's so many people in town for CMJ.
Guest:It's like, these things, I'll sell them to college.
Guest:I'm not going to be out on the street trying to sell them.
Guest:I'll just go into where the CMJ thing is happening, and I'll sell them.
Guest:And then I...
Guest:i went in and like nobody was buying them like yeah none of the college kids from out of town and um and i'm like oh my god i'm gonna have to go on the street and sell these things i'm gonna have to be a real one of those guys yeah be one of them i'm gonna have to go into like yeah and now you know those guys like you want you who's got tickets tickets they're like i'm going into like those guys and those guys were just like
Guest:get out of here like like because i'm infringing on their yeah their turf and they know each other oh no they they exactly they clearly know each other outlaw code that you're you're in your that's their business oh and now here comes this one douche who's like trying to sell like sell them and then finally they were just so they were scaring me so much i just sold them the tickets at a loss just so i could get out of there yeah
Guest:Oh my God.
Marc:You had to accommodate that.
Marc:Like I, you know, it was the best thing I could do at that moment.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was just, yeah, I'm not a scalper.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm out of my element and out of my, I'm over my head here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And these guys are going to get like, they were getting mad, mad.
Marc:Oh, yeah, because you're just a punk.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You're a kid.
Marc:You got no business doing that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So let's talk about that Sandy experience, because literally I'm in L.A., and I really had no idea the scope of the damage until you talked about what you went through, and then I started seeing... It was horrendous, and I have no sort of point of reference for anything like that other than 9-11.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, it was...
Guest:Last year, there was a hurricane.
Guest:Hurricane Irene came through last year.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's the one that, like, my basement got flooded and all my stuff got ruined.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I was ready for this hurricane.
Guest:I was just, you know.
Guest:What, sandbagged or?
Guest:Not sandbagged, just a generator.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because it...
Guest:The way we got stuck last year was our power went out.
Guest:And when the power goes out, the pump, the sump pump stopped working.
Guest:And that's when the water just comes right in.
Guest:Right.
Guest:When there's no pumping mechanism to keep the basement dry.
Guest:And so this time it was like the house just shook.
Guest:Like the winds were what got us this time.
Guest:It was not... The water was not so bad.
Guest:Right.
Guest:The winds, though, just giant trees.
Guest:You know, just... You hear it because it's pitch black out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The thing started just when it got dark.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's no lights.
Guest:You could see off in the distance these, like, blue-green explosions.
Guest:The power... That was the Transformers.
Guest:The Transformers popping.
Guest:It's the weirdest look.
Guest:It's just, like... Yeah.
Guest:It's pitch black, and then you just see an explosion, and then it's pitch black again.
Guest:And...
Guest:When you hear a tree break like that, you're just hoping the next sound is not hitting your house.
Guest:The ceiling coming in.
Guest:Yeah, all of a sudden me seeing the tree because it fell on me in my living room.
Guest:But yeah, we were without power for like five or six days.
Guest:It was manageable.
Marc:But that feeling of like when I was in an earthquake in L.A., not in this house, but I was in a hotel, this sort of like it's really humbling that we're fortunate that the forces of nature are relatively tame here for some reason.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Or that they haven't been so horrible with any consistency that we're all not just scrambling for food outdoors.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:No, it's bigger.
Guest:It's bigger than you.
Guest:And, you know, we're like ants in the face of this thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's like that moment.
Marc:You ever had that moment where you're swimming in the ocean and you get pulled into an undertow and you realize, I can't manage this at all.
Guest:Just a little bit out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like this is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:This is how people die.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:This is where the drowning starts.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Famous people die that way.
Guest:That doesn't help them.
Guest:The waves don't take that into consideration.
Guest:No, he's a celebrity.
Guest:Let him swim out of this.
Guest:He's up on this.
Guest:I could only imagine Los Angeles in the face of the panic that goes on with things.
Guest:Like the gas.
Guest:Gas stations just not being open.
Guest:The idea, no one has power, so these gas stations can't pump gas.
Guest:I don't know what would happen.
Guest:You need gas to run your generator.
Marc:I try not to think about, like earthquakes are one thing.
Marc:I've been through one big one, and there's just a little one when I was living there.
Marc:But God forbid anything really goes down because there's no getting out unless you have a helicopter.
Marc:you're not going to drive anywhere yeah i mean don't even here i would imagine that it's like god forbid we have to move out of this area yeah what road are you going to take oh no it's it's over it's like locked in yeah everybody it's like that is because and also where are you going to go where it's better all of a sudden like you're going to go where there's nothing so i guess this is why the walking dead resonates with people
Marc:The reason it's absolutely terrifying is that it's relentless, it's inevitable, it's growing, and there's no real escaping it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The line between normalcy and chaos is so fascinating.
Guest:thin with this stuff because all it takes is a sporting event loss yeah oh yeah exactly we lost the chance like because the other things people write nobody writes if their team sucked yeah so they write because they didn't win everything right or they were i because they did win it's like yeah
Marc:And then the great humbler is that when something natural like that happens, it's like we're all losing.
Marc:There's no... And it's just a scrambling... It's very frightening to think about.
Guest:No, it really... I mean, the gas lines, there were lines...
Guest:Two miles long on the highway for gas.
Guest:For people waiting to just get gas.
Guest:And this thing wasn't that big.
Guest:In the scheme of things, it was big.
Guest:It wasn't that big.
Guest:It didn't wipe out... It just didn't wipe out every bridge and everything like that.
Guest:And that's two miles of people waiting for gas because of a crazy super storm.
Guest:And it's like...
Guest:I don't know what you do, though, to get ready for it.
Guest:You have to dedicate your life to it.
Guest:To be ready for it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You'd have to know how to build stuff.
Guest:You'd have to know how to hunt.
Marc:Some people are preparing for that.
Marc:I watched your show last night.
Marc:I could not stop watching it.
Marc:I was laying in bed.
Marc:It was on PBS.
Marc:It was just a guy.
Marc:I forget what it was called, but it was just this guy who built a cabin from scratch and then lived out there for 30 years.
Marc:Just hunting occasionally, smoking some meat, and just made his own snowshoes, made his own table, built the whole cabin with the fireplace.
Marc:And there's part of me that thinks, I mean, if I applied myself,
Guest:You know, I could probably wrap my brain around this.
Guest:I have to make my peace with the fact that... If the shit goes down... When it goes down... You're going down with it?
Guest:I better, you know... Yeah, I'm probably on the wrong end of it when it goes down.
Marc:Once the stuff in the cabinets is gone, I'm...
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You guys want to write some funny stuff for you?
Guest:Maybe I could be the guy who writes funny sketches for the new village.
Guest:The entertainment.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What?
Guest:There's no role for an entertainer in this new infrastructure?
Guest:I'm not ranked super high on this ladder.
Guest:That'd be the other thing, too.
Guest:But it's all we got.
Guest:I'm the biggest star you got here.
Guest:Don't you guys like, look, the way it worked before, guys who did what I did were pretty powerful on the ladder.
Guest:So I would hope I can have a commensurate place on this new ladder.
Guest:But meanwhile, it's going to be some kid who knows how to trap chickens like he's ranked higher than me.
Guest:That's going to be your pitch to the council.
Guest:It's like, look, I really want to be part of the camp.
Marc:And I know I can't contribute in the way a lot of people are contributing.
Marc:And I know you guys are clearly in charge and you're doing a good job.
Marc:You're doing a good job.
Marc:But I noticed a lot of people don't look happy and there's no reason since this is all functioning properly and you got the guys who get to meet and these ladies are washing things.
Marc:And so is those two guys.
Marc:And you guys have the guns and everything.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:I love being part of this.
Marc:But look, I think we need a little levity.
Guest:Where's the call in show?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's no call-in show in this post-apocalyptic fortress that we're all in.
Guest:And then the pitch becomes bigger.
Guest:It's like, I'm thinking one night a week, people gather around.
Guest:We go down to the place.
Guest:Look, you got builders.
Guest:Let's build some seats.
Guest:We'll build a little stage.
Guest:It'll be nice.
Guest:I'm sure there are people here with hidden talents.
Guest:And who knows?
Guest:Maybe if it goes well, we can do two shows twice a week.
Guest:Maybe encourage people to...
Guest:Come on, fellas.
Marc:I'm trying the best I can here.
Guest:I thought I could do a thing here and make fun of all you guys.
Guest:Yeah, a satire show.
Guest:Who are doing all the work.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:Like, I'll goof on all of you.
Marc:Yeah, it'd be fun because, like, some people think you guys are assholes.
Marc:Quite honestly, you have my ear to the ground out there.
Marc:And there's talk.
Marc:All right?
Marc:And you can't, you know...
Guest:Then you jump forward and they're like sending me out, the first one out to like go talk to the other tribe.
Guest:And I get hit by flaming arrows.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Go see if you can entertain them into sharing some space with us.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:You can be the politician.
Guest:You're the diplomat.
Guest:Then it gets hit with a flamethrower as I'm trying to approach the other compound.
Guest:To a wall of laughing people.
Guest:There's just all these people on top of the fortress laughing hysterically as you run back on fire.
Guest:See, it was funny.
Guest:I actually, at this point, I might take that if it meant everybody was laughing at me.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, that's how you go out.
Guest:That would actually be in the win column in terms of like, you should have seen it.
Guest:They were all laughing.
Guest:Everybody was, they were on the ground laughing at me.
Guest:I had the entire place cracking up.
Guest:All right, that's it.
Guest:All right.
Guest:We good?
Guest:I think so.
Great.
Guest:FBI CIA FBI CIA FBI FBI FBI FBI FBI FBI FBI FBI FBI