Mark Lanegan from 2017
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Marc:the copenhagen thing so you grew up with it so you're one of those guys could just take a pinch and put right in there well eventually i mean the first time i did it i got really sick well that's but that's the thing that gets you it's funny with copenhagen and heroin never never a great experience first time out but for some reason the guys that commit they'll ride that out
Marc:yeah well i should have gotten sick the first time i did heroin but that didn't happen so i did it many many more times before i started working against me well so that that was not uh that that worked out too well the first time indeed but you're still alive somehow against all odds but i mean like what to you know in order to to dip as a kid you gotta live a certain life i mean where where did you where where'd that start where'd you grow up
Guest:I grew up in a small town in central Washington, which is like mainly farming, ranching.
Guest:Near Spokane or no?
Guest:Right between Spokane and Seattle, right in the exact center of the state.
Marc:So like Washington, it always strikes me as beautiful, but there's a sort of creepiness at the core somewhere.
Yeah.
Guest:Well, I once read that most serial killings happen in Washington and Florida in the corners of the country.
Marc:Yeah, people hit the edge, literally, and they're like, I guess I got to go back in and do some bad work.
Marc:I've gone as far as I can go geographically within the confines of this country.
Marc:Now I've got to go make my mark.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, Ted Bundy did damage in both states.
Guest:He actually killed somebody in my hometown.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I remember when I was a little kid.
Guest:at uh pizza hut yeah there was a flyer on the wall for a missing girl she turned out to be one of his victims oh you remember that from that was one of those things yeah that first time you see something like that as a kid it kind of burns its way in there yeah i mean apparently something else burned its way into ted bundy himself yes but what did you grow up on a farm
Guest:no but i grew up in the country yeah yeah what'd you do out there just uh wish that i was somewhere else the whole time pretty much yeah big family no small just just me and my mom and dad and my sister that was it what he was he a farmer no uh they were they were school teachers oh that's noble i guess
Marc:is the memories too uh too polluted by other things to yeah man it's too raw yeah bad times and this is it that's what started you rolling i guess i guess so yeah i was the black sheep of the small family
Marc:When did you start doing music?
Guest:I used to collect comic books as a kid, and there was a comic book store in my town.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Thank God for those, right?
Guest:Yeah, actually, that saved me because I saw a picture of...
Guest:iggy pop on the front of a magazine that he was giving away yeah and because he couldn't sell it no one wanted it i think it was one of those where he cut off half the cover oh yeah right they used to do in the 70s and uh oh when they it was one of those that means that they didn't sell them they were going to send them back i guess i think it's what they they'd get credit
Marc:how did that work they'd cut off the title of the magazine and send those back for or something for i don't know whatever so it was half a cover of iggy yeah and uh i thought what you know what's this who's that guy and i asked the kind of uh we're hippie that ran the shop
Guest:thank god for those guys yeah yeah naturally yeah um you know who's this and he said oh you know i have some some 45s and uh played me i want to say it was tight pants or something and i was that's what got me hooked within like a couple of days i'd traded in all my comic books for credit on records so i listened to you know
Guest:the original like uh sex pistol singles i had those and the damn stranglers from the from that same shop yeah from that same shop man and then as i got a little older i started to take the greyhound bus to seattle and walk around to different record stores and
Guest:But I literally didn't know anybody in Ellensburg to listen to that same kind of music for years.
Marc:So we're like the same age.
Marc:So that was a give or take a year.
Marc:So that was like that time where you really, those were the only places you could get it.
Marc:You needed that one record store or you needed this weird community of friends that would send you shit from other places or else you were just locked in mainstream fucking townie music, which isn't bad.
Marc:You know, there's a lot of good rock and roll around.
Guest:Well, you know, in Ellensburg, literally nobody even knew who Jimi Hendrix was that I knew.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, it was all, the local radio was, I want to say, country music.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:But, you know, 70s style, so that wasn't terrible.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But, yeah, the rock thing was really, it was a wasteland.
Marc:And we're talking like what, you know, early 70s, mid 70s?
Marc:Mid to late 70s.
Marc:And that was, you were like, there's a different world out there.
Marc:Where's that world?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, you know, I just listened to that stuff in solitude for several years and then eventually met some guys who were younger than me.
Guest:In Ellensburg?
Guest:Yeah, that were into that same kind of music and they ended up being the guys I was in my first band with.
Guest:Which band?
Guest:Screaming Trees.
Marc:So those guys?
Guest:So you knew them growing up?
Guest:I actually knew who they were.
Marc:The Connor brothers.
Guest:Yeah, because it's such a small town.
Guest:One of my earliest memories, when I still lived in the town, walking to, I want to say, like, first grade or something.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Seeing this kid sitting in a, like, waiting pool in this front yard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he smiled at me, and that was man Connor.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I knew who he was my entire life, but didn't really know him until I was 18.
Guest:Right.
Marc:That's kind of weird about, like, smaller cities or smaller towns.
Marc:It's like there is just a little bit of distance, but you've seen them around, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And these guys were really, I mean, physically imposing.
Guest:Big guys.
Guest:Really big guys, you know, outside the norm.
Marc:Were they twins?
Guest:No.
Marc:Do people ask that a lot?
No.
Marc:Yeah, they used to.
Marc:I just remember that first screaming, well not the first one, that was a surprising thing because like,
Marc:like i you know the one i heard was the one with the hits on it the one that became big and i fucking love that record but you know you guys were at it for a while yeah i mean we made i want to say four records in the 80s so yeah you know but we were making them like every eight months so all right so you meet those guys in your hometown and they and what'd you play did you play or were you just singing
Guest:i was a terrible drummer i just had like half of a drum kit that some guy had traded me for some weed but you you were drumming well they wanted me to but you know i was i was arguably a worse drummer than i was a singer and i was pretty bad singer for years really yeah it took me a while to learn how to do it what were you like initially who were you modeling yourself after
Guest:well initially i was singing songs that the guitar player for the trees wrote and he wrote them uh you know to suit his voice uh-huh and he had a much higher voice than me so i was either like singing really high or singing like two octaves lower which was easier but also still like completely right you know not correct not your sweet spot not my sweet spot yeah yeah yeah we weren't anywhere close to being savvy enough to like change keys on anything so right
Guest:For years, literally, I just tried to find a way to sing stuff.
Marc:No one could just write down, like, well, these are these three.
Marc:Let's just drop them down or move them up or throw a capo on.
Marc:It's like, we're stuck in these.
Guest:Dude, we didn't even know how to change the strings on a guitar, really.
Guest:Is that true?
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How old were you guys?
Guest:um i was 20 when we first started and a couple of the guys were 15 and then the older connor brother was i want to say 22 yeah yeah so did you where'd you play like whose garage well we actually uh rehearsed in the back of a video store that the connor family owned oh yeah there was a big room back there i worked for them in that shop for a while
Marc:You were renting videos, selling videos?
Marc:Yeah, renting them out.
Marc:Did they have an X section?
Guest:They did, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's always helpful.
Guest:It was, you know, the most popular section.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I would think up there in the middle of Washington.
Guest:Yeah, it wasn't.
Guest:I think it was probably the only place you could get...
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:So you knew a little bit about the adults in the community.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Their tastes.
Marc:Secret keeper.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you're in the back of the store, you and the fellas hammering it out.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, we actually started recording like a month after we first rehearsed because there happened to be a guy who lived in our hometown that was recording bands and
Guest:Had a four-track or an eight-track?
Guest:It was an eight-track.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we ended up making our first four records on that eight-track, like all in maybe three years' time.
Guest:And who released them?
Guest:Well, the first one was released by the guy who recorded it.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And then we started making records for SST here in California.
Marc:Are they even still around now?
Guest:Well, I think he's still selling records, but out of a warehouse in Arizona, I think.
Marc:Because that was a pretty important label in its day.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, for us it was... Must have been like, holy shit.
Marc:Yeah, it was.
Guest:It was still like the most exciting thing that's happened to me in 30 years.
Guest:Getting that first SST deal?
Guest:Was getting a phone call from Greg at SST, which I didn't even believe it was him.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Who were they?
Marc:And you knew all the bands on there, I imagine.
Guest:Yeah, we were big Black Flag fans.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:We were Husker Du fans, Minutemen.
Guest:Minutemen.
Guest:Sonic Youth.
Guest:They were all on SST.
Guest:They were all on SST.
Guest:We were on there at the same time as Sonic Youth and Dinosaur.
Guest:Well, it was completely bizarre from where we were from to making records for them.
Guest:Well, what was that first trip down there like?
Yeah.
Guest:Well, we were playing record stores all the way down to California, and that was it.
Guest:And because there was a guy who worked at SST who was friends with the guy who produced our first record, he came out as a courtesy to see us play.
Guest:And that's really how we got hooked up with those guys.
Guest:He got excited when he saw us play live to like five people in a record store in Santa Monica.
Marc:Man, I bet you don't miss those gigs.
Guest:I still play those gigs, Mark.
Guest:Just not with the band by myself.
Marc:More than five.
Guest:I've played to nobody.
Guest:If there was a negative audience, I could have played to them.
Marc:Well, that's an interesting thing about you.
Marc:I guess interesting is a diplomatic word probably from your perspective, but...
Marc:I mean, you're one of the great rock and roll singers, and you have an amazing catalog of work.
Marc:How does that happen, Mark?
Marc:Why are you playing to nobody in a record store?
Marc:I don't know how that happens, but it does occasionally.
Guest:Fucking music, right?
Yeah.
Guest:I've played at weddings.
Guest:I've played at a funeral.
Guest:I've played everything.
Marc:To honor somebody or as a paid gig?
Marc:To honor somebody, but both times, wedding and funeral.
Marc:Okay, but it wasn't like, man, things are bad.
Marc:I've got to get a wedding gig.
Guest:No, but if somebody offered me one, I would definitely take it.
Guest:Would you?
Guest:Depending on how low my bank account was at that point.
Marc:Well, Light in the Attic did that.
Marc:They did that beautiful box set, right?
Guest:Yeah, they did an anthology.
Guest:Sub Pop did a box set like a couple years ago of all my early records.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And do they sell all right?
Guest:Well, when Sub Pop released the box set, I finally recouped with them after like 17 years.
Guest:So I guess it sold something.
Marc:So you're even with Sub Pop?
Marc:I'm even with them now, yeah.
Marc:So what was going on?
Marc:So you signed on SST and you're 20, 21?
Marc:Who put out the big record that you guys did?
Marc:Epic.
Marc:So what was happening when you got there?
Marc:What year was that?
Guest:We actually signed in 1989 to Epic, which was sort of predated everybody else doing it.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In fact, I remember...
Marc:that they were putting us on metal compilations and there really wasn't the you know sort of grunge genre yeah it's weird because it like in retrospect i don't know if it was a genre was it really no it's just you know because you guys are rock bands i mean all you know like pearl jam is a rock band nirvana is a rock band with a few you know pop chords yeah
Guest:Yeah, I mean, like most things, it was a media construct.
Guest:But was there a community?
Guest:Well, it was a small city, so you knew everybody.
Guest:Musically, it seemed to us that everybody sort of had their own thing going.
Marc:So when you guys are doing that stuff, when that scene is happening, I mean, what's your relationship with... Because I know you worked a bit with some of Nirvana.
Guest:right i did yeah that's how i actually started making solo records was um kurt and i were friends and we decided to uh try and make an ep of lead belly covers lead belly being someone that we both like a lot we were sitting around listening to him one day and thought hey we should we should do a record of this stuff why not and uh some pop
Guest:agreed to to put it out yeah and we booked some time in the studio and about an hour into the first day in the studio we kind of looked at each other and thought uh maybe this was like a half-baked idea you know so we uh we finished like one or two songs and and then just decided to shelve it
Guest:which ones which songs because they covered that one right that's sort of an off the beaten track one which one did they do in the pines yeah which is also the song that we did together which ended up being on my first solo record um that one and one other one i can't remember what it was called but that was the one that you know we were like hey this one's good and uh
Guest:After we told Sub Pop we weren't going to finish making this thing, they said to me, why don't you make a solo record?
Guest:And that was the catalyst for me learning how to... How to do it?
Guest:How to play guitar.
Guest:I remember that.
Marc:Oh, yeah, that where you learned?
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah, it was because of that.
Marc:See, like, you're one of those guys, and I've talked to people before, where musicians, like, you can be a fan of, like, a few of the records, but then when you sit down with them, you're like, oh, man, they got 90 out.
Marc:I'd miss that one record.
Marc:Like, 20 records.
Guest:Yeah, man, I have way too many records, so.
Guest:No, but you keep working.
Guest:Well, no choice.
Guest:If you had a choice, would you stop?
Guest:If I won the lotto, I might just sit on a beach somewhere.
Marc:Ah, a lotto.
Marc:Yeah, the big dream.
Marc:Yeah, the lotto hope.
Yeah.
Marc:So, when you were in Seattle, when did the drugs start then?
Guest:Well, I was always partial to drugs when I lived in eastern Washington.
Marc:Yeah, what were you getting in eastern Washington?
Marc:Everything you could get.
Marc:Anywhere?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you were sort of there...
Marc:like that that tar shit preceded the meth shit right yeah and uh you know for me both both worked out yeah gotta be you gotta you gotta be up and you gotta be down yeah simultaneously part of my story
Marc:yeah did you find because i was trying to kind of tap into like as i listen to gargoyle and you know those i like i tend to like that like i like those last two cuts the uh first day of winter and old swan you know like on that on the new record
Marc:And I like, there's always been the thing about your voice, but not just about your voice.
Marc:It doesn't seem to matter who you're playing with.
Marc:There's this, what did I write down?
Marc:Me and my poetic impulse.
Marc:I said, the tone of sound, you can feel the Pacific Northwest, the haunting comfort of the weight of the gloomy sky.
Marc:And I said, he's an existential Viking.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:There's your blurb.
Marc:Do you need a blurb for Gargoyle?
Marc:i just got it thanks man but you know i think something there there is something to that don't you ever i mean there there's a place you go emotionally with the way you sing and also with the the chords you use and even over the years whatever song it is that there's it creates this space man i mean i don't know how to ask an artist about that but do you feel that do you feel where that came from do you think that some of that had to do with washington or dope or what
Guest:i don't know i mean uh speaking of box sets one of the first things that i actually heard that sort of informed where i would go with my own records i was working in a um warehouse for a chain of record stores in seattle and i had made you know three records with the trees already yeah but again i wasn't writing songs or doing any of that stuff and
Guest:i saw this nick drake box set called fruit tree and on the cover it's just a picture him like a long overcoat smoking cigarette like walking on a beach or next to a lake or something yeah black and white photo yeah fruit tree huh
Guest:you know what is this and i asked the guy who worked there and he goes oh man this stuff is great and he made me a cassette of nick drake tim buckley and leonard cohen all three of who i'd never heard before how old were you 23 oh that was it the portal yeah and so that's uh
Guest:And that really spoke to me in a way that very few things had before that type of music.
Guest:And I want to say maybe within six months, I had written the songs for my first solo record and made that record.
Guest:So it was really sort of my version of that stuff.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:you were under the influence and not in your own voice yet necessarily right yeah and you know could barely play three chords on the guitar to write these songs so that was it that was it and i mean everything i've done since then sort of uh i mean it's basically the same but you know with a little bit more artistry i guess so i've you know been really lucky to play with guys who are actually really proficient and great artists so
Marc:Well, you are.
Marc:You're a great singer.
Marc:Thanks.
Marc:But like Nick Drake, I was just talking to another dude about that today.
Marc:I think I just picked up his third album.
Marc:That song, somebody asked me about...
Marc:Which songs make me cry consistently.
Marc:And that song, Time Has Told Me.
Marc:It's beautiful, yeah.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:It didn't end well for that guy.
Guest:No, it didn't.
Guest:But I guess it doesn't really end well for everybody.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:The end is not good.
Marc:You just hope it's fast.
Marc:And I guess if you decide on it, if you do it correctly, it might be pretty quick.
Yeah.
Marc:Do you find that, you know, I guess when you listen to Nick Drake, there's that element where you can hear the weight of, I don't know if it's sad.
Marc:I guess it's sadness.
Marc:There's definitely a space that's created, and you do it too, that it feels like it could be sadness, but it isn't.
Marc:It's almost like embracing a certain darkness.
Marc:I mean, do you ever feel like what you're doing is like literally saving your life?
Guest:Well, yeah, you know, for a long time I wouldn't have copped to that, but I think that it's true.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's given me an outlet for whatever these, you know, ideas and thoughts and give me a place to sort of create this...
Guest:alternate reality that's in a song or a record.
Marc:Cushions it, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's a big, dark cushion.
Marc:That's the other blurb.
Marc:Big, dark cushion.
Marc:I'm trying to help you out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:it's working did you find that did you find you know and i don't and i don't talk about this much but i'm always curious about it because i don't talk to too many people that have had a long experience with dope but do you find that like because i've known a couple of dudes that i don't think they could have had the perception that they had with without it
Guest:You know, that's so hard to say, really.
Guest:Is it?
Marc:Well, I mean...
Marc:Because I was never a dope guy.
Marc:I did a few times, but it didn't take.
Marc:I'm probably lucky.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'd say so.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, that's like... Well, you've done it both.
Guest:You've written songs on and off.
Guest:I have, and I've done records that I thought were really good on, and I've done records that I thought were really good off, and I've done records that couldn't come out because they were so bad when I was on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Ultimately, it's...
Guest:It's a crapshoot.
Guest:It's a gamble.
Guest:Well, yeah, it's a gamble.
Guest:And, you know, my experience with that stuff is ultimately not a positive one because of the, you know, damages.
Guest:you got pretty strung out done to my existence oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but um i mean really to be honest about drugs the only drugs i ever did that sort of enhanced my abilities i thought yeah wasn't really dope but uh weed at one time sure like made me do stuff that i never would have done otherwise i quit smoking weed for about five years and then around the time
Guest:I made my second solo record whiskey.
Guest:I decided to smoke weed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it made me do some stuff that I had never thought about doing.
Guest:And, of course, it turned on me quickly, like all drugs.
Guest:Well, yeah, because if you've got the bug, you're just going to do it all day long.
Guest:Well, anything I ever did, that's all I ever did.
Guest:After the first time it wore off, I was doing it again.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:It's your job.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:but and then there was a brief period of time when and i shouldn't even say this because i don't in any way advocate right because ultimately it was really damaging as well but there was a period of time when i thought like you know this meth thing is really working for me artistically i'm really getting a lot done a lot done but those are really the only two you know
Marc:Well, I didn't get, like, I definitely was, you know, absorbed with weed in a big way.
Marc:But, like, meth, I'd done both meth and dope.
Marc:And, like, meth, like, I get it.
Marc:You know, there's at least a feeling of clarity.
Guest:Yeah, definitely.
Marc:Ultra clarity.
Marc:And, you know, there is an excitement to it, certainly.
Marc:But it just really comes down to, I guess, whether you want to risk your teeth.
Yeah.
Marc:your mental faculties right yeah yeah yeah and it's it's a dirty drug it's dirty yeah it's like it's just non-organic non-organic indeed as chemical as they come yeah yeah so okay so you do the solo records now how did the relationship with um with josh start well josh hami he lived in seattle and uh
Guest:Early, well, maybe like 94, he was living in Seattle in 95.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Going to college, he had quit Caius and was trying to... Fucking Caius, what a band, dude.
Marc:Great band.
Marc:Weren't they?
Marc:Yeah, fantastic.
Marc:Wow.
Wow.
Marc:He was trying to get on the straight and narrow?
Guest:Yeah, he was trying to get on the straight and narrow.
Guest:His brother lived in Seattle, and he was enrolled in the University of Washington.
Guest:I had never met him, but I was a fan of Caius.
Guest:And the bass player in the Screamy Trees knew Josh from something they had done together.
Guest:And we were looking to get a second guitar player.
Guest:And he ended up saying, yes, he would do it.
Guest:So he was actually already in the band by the time I met him.
Guest:in your band yeah they had rehearsed with him and everything and then i came one day and he was there so um he seems that makes sense yeah i mean it was obvious right away that he had like way more on the ball than any of us it was just sort of playing these yeah you know rhythm guitar parts but uh but we got along really well and
Guest:eventually uh we were both living down here he asked me to sing on the first queen's record but i was uh in the long-term rehab at that point i couldn't get out like six months uh actually went almost a year for the dope yeah everything everything yeah yeah
Guest:and you couldn't get out to sing i couldn't get out to sing um and by the time he made the second record i did quite a bit of singing on that one right and then the next couple i've actually been on all of them except for the first one so when you were in a year rehab did that stick
Marc:it did yeah for you know a few years so no well it didn't stick forever yeah yeah but what does i know are you sober now or no i am yeah yeah like working it or just i'm working it yeah oh good man that's good that's pretty much the only thing that uh you feel better of course yeah yeah so a little more freedom huh you know more the job is over lots more freedom
Marc:So, like, it seems to me like, you know, when I look at this stuff you did that, you know, you definitely get a tremendous amount of respect from the community in a lot of different ways, in a way that not a lot of singers do or rock performers do.
Marc:Like, you know, it seems like the alt-axe,
Marc:You know, the hipster kids love you.
Marc:The fucking hardcore, you know, all rockers love you.
Marc:And then the hard rock dudes fucking love you.
Marc:Like you can you have this this this ticket or this like ability to because your instrument is so solid that you can work with all these different people.
Marc:That's kind of an amazing thing.
Marc:Do you do you recognize that?
Guest:I don't know if I recognize the love you just described, but I recognize the opportunity that I've had, you know, to work with all kinds of different people.
Marc:Guns N' Roses guys.
Guest:Well, Duff's a good friend of mine.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:He's a Seattle guy, too.
Marc:He is, huh?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:and that like but that's a whole other world i mean there's differences in these worlds like there's differences in the world in my mind maybe not in yours or maybe not in but there's a difference in the guns and roses circle and the dinosaur junior circle well yeah they seem to be different orbits like you know rock you know at los angeles hollywood rock and roll
Marc:is specific i mean and i think i i think that you know josh is sort of uh in between those sometimes but he's definitely a hard rock guy but then when you think about jay jay's a hard rock as hell but it's like his own weird thing you know what i mean yeah well i mean there definitely are uh differences um
Guest:in that specific uh you know communities communities i guess but that doesn't mean that people don't uh you know hang out interact with people well that well that's what see that's weird because as a guy who likes music and is somewhat of a fan and not you know you have a lot of different people
Marc:you get this weird assumption that you guys are like comic book people, like you're like superheroes of some kind, and there are these different factions that, you know, but behind the scenes, I've learned after talking to people, it's like, you know, you pass in the hallway or whatever the hallway is or whatever that represents, and like, what are you working on?
Marc:I got a thing going.
Marc:It's like, you know, it's not, you know, there's a difference between the front room and the back room, you know?
Marc:Well, I think, you know, a lot of that,
Guest:kind of perception is probably because of the sort of mainstream success of one band compared to like the sort of sustained different kind of success of a different kind of band you know what i mean sure yeah yeah yeah i'm just thinking the difference between guns and roses and dinosaur junior now right um you know at the end of the day it's it's music and you guys you come in contact with people from right all different kinds of bands
Marc:But you did a couple records with Isabel from Belle and Sebastian?
Marc:I did.
Marc:I made three records with her.
Marc:Now, were you guys in a relationship?
Marc:No.
Marc:How does that happen?
Marc:See, that's one of those things where it's like, you're a singer, and it's like it makes sense, but it seems two different worlds, doesn't it?
Marc:Or not to you?
Guest:Well, I mean, I was a fan of Bill and Sebastian.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was definitely not in my direct realm.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not the kind of- You weren't hanging out.
Guest:Not hanging out.
Guest:Right.
Guest:She got in contact with me via a record company or management or something, wanted me to sing on one song.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:which i did and then we ended up meeting in person and became friends and ended up making all these records together pretty records thank you you make pretty records with that with her well i agree thanks and which one of that the record you did were there was a lot of collaboration like i don't know the record but i did some reading about it was it bubblegum that record was that yeah it was your record yeah and like there was a shit ton of people on there
Guest:yeah i made that while i was playing with the queens so all those guys were on it and um was pj harvey on it she sang a couple songs yeah are you pals with her we we know each other yeah i wouldn't say we're pals but i'm a huge fan of what she does i mean she's the greatest she's something right yeah and what what happened so how did you manage to um do you are you married
Guest:I've been married a couple times.
Guest:I'm in the process of ending my second marriage right now.
Marc:Yeah, I've been through a couple.
Marc:You got kids?
Marc:No.
Marc:Me neither.
Marc:We did it.
Marc:Yeah, we won, man.
Marc:Don't ever look at it differently.
Marc:Oh, wait, before we get to the new record...
Marc:The Afghan Wigs, they were a band that I remember enjoying a couple of their records, and I know they did a new one recently.
Marc:And I know that Greg's out talking to people, and I haven't talked to him because I'm nervous.
Marc:I get nervous about musicians sometimes.
Marc:But you guys have known each other a long time, and you work together?
Marc:Because I listened to a little bit of one of the records you did with him.
Guest:yeah i mean we played on a bunch of records together we're good friends how did you guys uh come together with you because you record under another band name right well we recorded with his band twilight singers uh sang with those guys played on a few of their records he's played on a bunch of my records we made a record together called the gutter twins right that one yeah and we um were you just like-minded you just get along
Guest:Yeah, we're just, you know, real good friends.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Is that from Seattle days?
Guest:We knew each other in Seattle, but we didn't really hang out until we both lived down here, like in the late 90s again.
Marc:Man.
Marc:Tough racket.
Marc:Music.
Marc:Because when I'm going over your stuff and I'm planning to talk to you, there's just so many different side projects, so many different bands.
Marc:You've sung on fucking everything.
Marc:Have you met most of your heroes?
Guest:I've met quite a few of them, yeah.
Guest:Like who else?
Guest:well one of my first heroes was a guy named greg sage was in a band from portland oregon called the wipers yeah and uh i want to say it was the second show i ever did was opening for him became friends he was also an influence on my first solo record along with that other stuff i mentioned because he had made a record
Guest:solo record that was heavily acoustic and that was uh i actually heard that before i heard nick drake and that stuff so uh he you know i spent a lot of time with him back in the 80s um jeffrey again yeah rollins rollins sure did shows with him and you know know him he's he's great he's a real character man
Guest:yeah he's one of the greatest i just remember before i actually knew henry yeah playing a show with them at the old ibm in san francisco and we played of course the connor brothers got in a fist fight on stage with each other with each other yeah oh my god that was the only only person they would fight with was each other yeah um and then i was off the side of the stage ron's been getting ready to go up and
Guest:and henry was like in full view of the audience and everything doing push-ups or four count burpees like you know like working out on the side of the stage i was like man this guy's he means business he is something else and of course he is yeah is he doing all right have you talked to him lately i saw him i want to say and
Guest:Maybe it was 2010.
Guest:Oh, it's been a while.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But we have a lot of people in common.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:He's an earnest motherfucker, man.
Guest:He is, yeah.
Guest:Great, great taste in music.
Marc:Oh, he knows everything.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I talked to him once, and he gave me all the... I did a series of shows with him, spoken word things, and he brought me a hard drive.
Marc:I said, here's some stuff.
Marc:And I'm like, holy shit.
Marc:Where the fuck do you even get...
Marc:where did this come from you know like just like studio versions of things you're like what what is this yeah man he said he's something else so on gargoyle it's like you've done this is like what your 10th record record with my name on it now one thing i noticed and i noticed this because you know maybe i'm wrong but like i recently um
Marc:Got sent the promo version.
Marc:It hasn't come out yet of Ray Davies' new record from the Kings.
Marc:And, you know, I don't know if it's because I'm 53 and that, you know, like I just listened to Amy Mann's new record and she's around our age, you know.
Marc:What, are you a little younger than me?
Marc:What are you, 52?
Marc:I'm 52, yeah.
Marc:That, like, you know, people, like, it's, I guess the point I'm making, it seems that, you know, your voice and your songs sound like they're deeper and have more wisdom and that, you know, your own, you know, kind of vulnerability and fragility of just being where we are in life.
Marc:You can feel that alongside of...
Marc:this is a good thing don't misunderstand it that you can feel that alongside of what you've always been doing and it adds another dimension to it are you aware of that do you feel like you're writing differently now well i definitely feel like i'm better at it now because it's easier i don't know if i'm just kidding myself or what right um but as far as like uh
Guest:what the end result is i i don't i don't really think about it no i just sort of like uh go on instinct and yeah and i know that because i'm less uh critical of what i do yeah now i feel like it's getting better that's it that's what she said too it's like i i give less of a shit about what people think of me
Marc:basically was the i'm paraphrasing but like once you get like once that it's what a fucking relief that is if there's any gift to you know living continuing to live when you see you know people in our peers pass at young ages is that eventually you stop giving a fuck about certain things
Marc:Indeed.
Marc:That's a fucking gift.
Marc:I got to make sure I remember that.
Marc:Because there were a lot of things when I was younger that seemed like an awfully big deal that really it's just sort of like, what the fuck?
Marc:Oh, man.
Guest:Everything was a big deal to me when I was younger, and now nothing is.
Marc:But you can't.
Marc:There's no way to learn that before it happens.
Marc:Who's going to tell you that?
Marc:It's like, hey, you know what?
Marc:You shouldn't give a shit so much.
Marc:Fuck you.
Marc:This is life or death here, man.
Marc:Right?
Marc:What do you know, old man?
Guest:Who played on this record?
Guest:Alan Yohannes plays on most of it, and he's the guy I've made records with since Bubblegum, produces them.
Guest:But a lot of the music for this one was recorded and written by a guy named Rob Marshall, a British guy.
Guest:How'd you find him?
Guest:He actually found me.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Asked me to do something for this project that he was doing, and I recorded some vocals and
Guest:I mean, I heard it first, and I was like, yeah, this is cool, and I can do something with this.
Guest:And I wrote some words and recorded some vocals for his thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then he sent me an email saying, I really like what you did.
Guest:I'd like to write something for you someday.
Guest:And I was like, okay, well, I filed that away.
Guest:And I was sort of running into a wall trying to finish this new record, and I was not really digging what I was doing.
Guest:And I thought, hey, maybe that...
Guest:You're going to call in a favor.
Guest:Yeah, maybe that guy's got something for me.
Guest:And so he ended up sending me a whole bunch of stuff, which was, again, just as good as the stuff I had done for him.
Guest:And it was really easy to write, too.
Guest:Oh, cool.
Guest:Half the record was his stuff.
Marc:Well, I appreciate the fact that it's a reasonable amount of songs.
Marc:Instead of?
Marc:90.
Marc:You know, like, for some reason, people who do CDs are like, we're going to put 18 songs on there.
Marc:It's like, dude, you know, records were good for a reason.
Marc:You know, cut, you know, make some choices.
Guest:Yeah, but I thought about just doing eight songs this time.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But, yeah, 10 seems to be.
Marc:Yeah, Amy did, like, 10 on hers, too.
Marc:I was like, oh, thanks.
Marc:Because it feels like, you know, you made some decisions.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Guest:Well, in my case, it's just using exactly what I have.
Guest:Heck, that's all I got.
Guest:That's all I got.
Guest:That's all I got for this one.
Marc:Thank God it's enough.
Marc:So are you going to go out and tour, or what are you going to do?
Guest:Yeah, I'm going to tour in May, June, July in Europe, and then maybe some state stuff in August, and then back to Europe for a couple months.
Marc:How are you holding up in Europe?
Marc:How's the crowds?
Yeah.
Guest:Well, it's the only place I have a crowd is Europe, so I've managed to.
Guest:Nothing wrong with that.
Guest:It's worked for me for several years, so I'm lucky.
Marc:I don't know what it is or why that is, but it seems like you can hold on to the community longer with being somebody who's specific and has specific fans.
Marc:It seems like you can continue to build there.
Marc:Here, I don't know what's going on here.
Guest:Yeah, I don't either.
Guest:But I've managed to, you know, I tour every year in Europe and pay my bills from that, so I'm blessed.
Marc:Yeah, blessed.
Marc:Good.
Marc:Still alive.
Marc:Well, it was good talking to you, Mark.
Marc:Nice talking to you.