BONUS Producer Cuts - Michael Mann, Orny Adams and No Innocent Weather
Music
Guest:Hi, everybody listening to this on WTF Plus.
Guest:This is Brendan McDonald.
Guest:I'm the producer of the show.
Guest:And what we're going to do today is something I hope we can do kind of regularly because it's really exciting to me that we finally can do this.
Guest:You know, one of the things I do as the producer of the show is edit the interviews and edit what Mark is saying at any given time.
Guest:And sometimes that just means that I have to take things out that I would rather not, but it's the right choice for
Guest:...as editor and producer to remove and make sure that the episode is as good as we know it can be.
Guest:What that means is sometimes there's just been stuff that people don't get to hear.
Guest:Only I hear it, and I wish I could share it with you, but we haven't really had the outlet to do that.
Guest:And now with the full Marin here on WTF+, I'm going to be doing this a little more regularly.
Guest:Taking the things that I wish I didn't have to take out of the episodes, but that I do for whatever various reasons...
Guest:And, yeah.
Guest:And I think there's really two reasons that this happens, two main reasons anyway.
Guest:Usually the length of the episode, we're not constrained by any clock on a podcast.
Guest:But as a producer and somebody who knows how these things flow and I want to be conscious of the listening experience at all times, sometimes something is just a little too long.
Guest:The other thing is that it could just not be appropriate for where they're at in the conversation.
Guest:Like, whatever they start talking about might really interrupt the flow.
Guest:And, you know, that means a lot of times you've got to say goodbye to stuff you like.
Guest:And here are two things that I wish I didn't have to say goodbye to.
Guest:But, you know, the first one is from the Michael Mann episode.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like it had Michael Mann talking about Heat 2 and and how he's hopeful that he gets to make that into a movie at some point.
Guest:And that flowed very nicely into him talking about the movie he's going off to make.
Guest:And so this detour to talk about the show Tokyo Vice, it just kind of didn't.
Guest:fit in that moment.
Guest:But the great part about this conversation is Michael Mann starts talking about what a director brings to a pilot episode that will really influence the whole series.
Guest:And I just thought that was really good.
Guest:And I'm glad that you're going to get to hear that now.
Guest:So this is from the conversation with Michael Mann.
Guest:And at some point toward the end of the conversation, it shifted over to the HBO series Tokyo Vice.
Marc:And when you do something like the Tokyo Vice Sing, how does that come to you?
Marc:What makes you do that?
Guest:John Lesher, who's a brilliant producer, approached me with it and asked me if I wanted to do the pilot.
Guest:And I only wanted to do the pilot.
Guest:And so we went off.
Guest:I read it.
Guest:I loved the writing.
Guest:J.T.
Guest:Rogers wrote the pilot.
Guest:And then I always wanted to do something in Tokyo.
Guest:I've been to Tokyo a whole bunch of times, but not really immersively into Tokyo.
Marc:How was it for you?
Guest:Fantastic.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:I had no idea what it would be like to cast and direct Japanese actors because three quarters, two thirds of it's in Japanese.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And...
Guest:And so, Tokyo, there were two things to get.
Guest:One was 90s culture in Tokyo and Yakuza.
Guest:And once you understand it, Yakuza were becoming Goldman Sachs with guns.
Guest:That's who they were becoming in the 90s.
Guest:And then immersing into the ritual culture.
Guest:like a sake ceremony that's in there.
Guest:And the significance of it and the substitute family.
Guest:And it's extremely hierarchical, real top-down structure.
Guest:And then the reporting...
Guest:You know, he's an acculturated guy and the real Jake Adelstein's with us the whole time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Acculturated, but he's still an American.
Guest:So the notion that he's dedicated his life and everything he's doing to be a reporter in the largest daily newspaper.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In Japan to actually win that and then a formal xenophobic structure of corporate life in Japan.
Guest:As a Jew.
Guest:As a Jew.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:as a Jew, to actually win that and then be told, oh, by the way, you can't report.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Well, that's where it ends, the first episode.
Guest:That's where the first episode ends.
Marc:Now, I guess some people may, I mean, when you do the pilot, it becomes sort of the palette, the directorial template of the show.
Marc:So you set the tone in a way.
Guest:You start with a blank canvas.
Guest:It's completely blank.
Guest:You haven't cast the show.
Guest:You invent...
Guest:select and invent the physical world the human world who are these characters how you bring your who are the actors just casting it who are the actors how you bring them in a character you design a curriculum to bring them into it it's one thing to write a reporter it's a whole other thing to get ansel elgort to experience reporting which we did here working with james queely at the la times oh okay
Guest:and uh couldn't do it in japan yeah and um and you just build the whole world and the visualization of it the physical places the decisions that uh he should live in a low-rise small neighborhood called akabani
Guest:And Ansel actually went and lived in that apartment for a while and got really friendly with the guy who owned a sake shop underneath.
Guest:Oh, okay, yeah.
Guest:So it's all real.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:You're making something real.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, it felt that.
Marc:It felt that.
Marc:And I also like the way you shot it.
Marc:You're up in everyone's face, pretty close.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I want you to be him coming.
Guest:He's finally realized his dream for the very first time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the newspaper office is big and chaotic and complex.
Guest:And you're him.
Guest:And wow, I have finally, my dreams come true.
Guest:I have landed.
Guest:And he's taken everything in just like we would.
Guest:That's the whole point of it.
Guest:And to work to get that feeling.
Guest:And all of that's a setup for, oh, by the way, you know, when he says, well, who, what, where, why?
Guest:You know, you don't get to do why, right?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Marc:Yeah, that woman, yeah.
Marc:I'm excited to see how it unfolds.
Marc:How many episodes were you able to read?
Marc:I just oversaw the first episode.
Guest:Did you read any other ones?
Marc:Pardon me?
Marc:Do you know what's going to happen?
Marc:Did you read it?
Marc:I know what's going to happen, yeah.
Guest:So, okay, yeah, that was something I had to cut because of basically where it happened in the episode, but most of the time, it's something I cut just because I need the episode to either wrap up, move faster, or just not be as long as it's going to be.
Guest:And I know it's not an exact science, but I do know there's like a kind of psychological barrier when some people see on their podcast app how long an episode is going to be.
Guest:Particularly if it's like not a guest that they know.
Guest:And like one hour and 40 minutes, just sometimes it's like the line that shouldn't be crossed.
Guest:I could even argue there's some episodes where that should be 1.30.
Guest:But...
Guest:I knew this Orny Adams episode had a lot of good stuff in it, particularly just stuff relating to, you know, their past history together and Orny in the documentary Comedian.
Guest:And there was just this part that was a real tangent, casual discussions about, you know, what they did over Fourth of July.
Guest:And so this was a section that, you know, I didn't really want to cut it, but when I was done with the episode and I was looking for ways to tighten it up, you know, this about five minute section seemed like it should come out.
Guest:And I took it out and I was glad that I did, but I was disappointed that people didn't get to hear it.
Guest:So now here it is for you.
Guest:So like this past weekend, July 4th, I went to three parties.
Marc:That's very unusual for me.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:The party I was supposed to go to got canceled and I had already started smoking a brisket that I was going to bring.
Marc:So I had to create a party.
Marc:Oh, cool.
Marc:It was good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know who came over?
Marc:Dana Gould and his fiance and Kevin Christie and his girlfriend.
Marc:Do you know Lara Bites?
Marc:Yeah, you did.
Marc:The comedian?
Guest:I think you don't know her.
Marc:She's funny.
Marc:Yeah, my friend Jerry Stahl.
Guest:Did everybody leave when you wanted them to leave?
Guest:That's the problem with throwing parties is people just stick around and you're like, let's go wrap it up.
Guest:I start cleaning up.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:When I start washing the cupboards, get out of my house.
Marc:Can we deconstruct this bit as it evolves?
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Marc:This is a classic Orny Adams bit where you take something that should be kind of pleasant and, you know, a nice undertaking.
Guest:You're like, I want everyone out.
Guest:Get louder.
Guest:Louder.
Guest:Yeah, keep getting louder.
Guest:I love...
Guest:I love when you go on stage after me, and I'm running around like a madman, and then you just sit on the stool.
Marc:I know, I have to.
Guest:And you're just angry at me.
Marc:Shift the focus.
Marc:Yeah, you're just like, what?
Marc:Well, you will go, the thing is it's weird, and this is something, I don't know what your draw is.
Marc:How is it?
Marc:You do all right out there?
Marc:I do okay, yeah.
Marc:You definitely go all out to kill no matter what.
Marc:and at some point i don't know that i i'm not sure when but that became less important to me than whatever it is i do right like i like to do well yeah but i'm not gonna like i don't in 15 minutes i don't need to be like walk off to you know what i mean i still love it i know you do yeah i mean again i think it's your primary form of um uh emotional recognition
Guest:Like, you know, that's where you get it all.
Guest:I think I enjoy it.
Guest:I enjoy constructing a bit.
Guest:I enjoy changing one word or two words.
Guest:I enjoy tightening it.
Guest:I enjoy finding out where it goes in the routine.
Guest:And I enjoy doing it on stage.
Guest:And I love when you can write something that day and do it that day.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I love that.
Guest:So for me, it's like such a blessing anytime I can be on stage that I don't want to waste a minute.
Guest:And I can't, it's not a put on mark.
Guest:I can't, my adrenaline is going.
Guest:I feel like that bull in the thing.
Guest:Just open the gate.
Guest:I want to go.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you'll just get those jokes.
Marc:So that's part of it.
Marc:Well, I mean, we all do that.
Marc:I mean, I do that too.
Marc:I like moving things around, but I like when things happen on stage that have never happened before in terms of, I like, because you still do a lot of writing.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:That's what you do.
Marc:See, I kind of wait for things to be delivered to me in the moment.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:And it works, you know, usually.
Marc:And that's how my shit evolves.
Marc:So the kind of thing, like I could see the difference in excitement.
Marc:Like if I was prone that way, where it's sort of like, all right, I've tightened up this bit all day on the paper, and now I'm gonna lay it on these people.
Marc:For me, because I could see that as exciting, this is my mission.
Marc:For me, I kind of still like going out there going like, I'm not sure...
Marc:where this is going to go.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Is that because the adrenaline takes you there?
Marc:No, it's not the adrenaline.
Marc:I just want the creativity.
Marc:I like the possibility of a moment.
Marc:And I go out there fully with bits around stuff, but I'm like, I know this isn't...
Marc:quite right yet but maybe something will happen in the middle of it while i'm up there that's where i get my excitement but can't you prepare so it is ready at 100 and then maybe moments are added well sure well i think i see that i mean i do see what what i'm doing out there i know what's working yeah but i know there's more to it that's what's really beautiful chunks with the stand-up is yeah we all have a different process yeah
Guest:And every comic, we can talk names, but everybody writes differently.
Guest:Some people do no work beforehand.
Guest:They just go up with a topic.
Guest:Some people just go with the flow.
Guest:And then some people are like a metronome.
Guest:You can just tell in their hour exactly where they're going to be at any point.
Marc:I think I remember that.
Marc:I feel like the first memory I have at you is at the old Gotham.
Marc:22nd between 5th and 6th.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, that would be it.
Marc:That was an amazing club.
Marc:It was good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Both Gothams were strangely shaped, but that first one was a little better.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I think.
Guest:I had such great sets there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Whereas the new one, I feel like the glass throws, the bounce.
Guest:There's a bounce.
Marc:I haven't been there forever.
Marc:I can't remember the last time I worked there.
Marc:I still love it.
Marc:Chris Mazzilli, I love.
Marc:Yeah, nice guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, he's one of the good guys.
Marc:He was always one of the good guys.
Guest:Now, when it comes to looking at the whole episode and trying to make it fit in a reasonable length, the first thing that gets cut when I'm looking for things to cut is Mark's intro, his monologue.
Guest:And he knows that, and I talk to him about it, and I tell him, look, I'm going to take this part out, and that might be something he'll then do again another day, or it might just be something that he didn't kind of fully form yet, and he'll say, let me think about it a little bit.
Guest:This was a thing that I took out of this most recent episode, the Michael Mann one.
Guest:And it was really funny.
Guest:And it just was the fact that the Michael Mann interview itself was pretty long.
Guest:I didn't want to cut that down anymore.
Guest:And I knew that we'd have new people coming in to just hear Michael Mann and let's kind of help them get to this interview faster.
Guest:And so this was something that got cut, but it was a funny thing.
Guest:And I hope Mark revisits the idea behind it of whether that's...
Guest:Not innocent, as he says.
Guest:And this was about him on the road in Las Vegas.
Marc:So the drive to Vegas, you know, it's I can't I know I seem anxious and I know that.
Marc:I am panicking, but I'm taking steps to find a way to get ahead of the end of the world away from me anyways, that will give my mind some peace.
Marc:But when you're driving in a car and you're going through the desert, we're driving from L.A.
Marc:to Nevada to Las Vegas.
Marc:And it's like 116, 117.
Marc:Like some part of you think so.
Marc:It's not unusual for this time of year or whatever.
Marc:But I'm telling you, man.
Marc:The cactuses are dying.
Marc:There's Joshua trees or yuccas between here and there.
Marc:And they're dying.
Marc:And I don't know what that means.
Marc:But you usually can count.
Marc:on the desert foliage being alive in the heat and it's fucking dying when the prehistoric succulents are dying.
Marc:I mean, that's an indicator.
Marc:I mean, is there any innocent weather anymore?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I swear to God, I don't know.
Marc:I mean, I was out there and I took a ride out to Whole Foods because I'm doing the sugar detox and it's impossible to kind of feel like you've eaten enough when you're not eating anything but no carbs.
Marc:I'm going to do it for 10 days.
Marc:I just went into some starvation frenzy because it's not breakfast you can handle in terms of you go out, you can just get eggs and avocado and that's it or whatever.
Marc:But at some point I was like just spiraling in a starvy brain.
Marc:I had to drive out to the Whole Foods to just get a mound of vegetation from the salad bar, which I tell you, man, I mean, I do this a lot when I go out of town, but I just need just a mound of vegetation, a bunch of grilled chicken on top of it, balsamic vinegar.
Marc:And I just ate it until I was like, this is disgusting.
Marc:Because no matter what kind of salad you make at the salad bar at the Whole Foods, it eventually gets kind of gross.
Marc:I don't know why.
Marc:But I just gorged myself on that shit until it got gross.
Marc:And I thought, like, I've done it.
Marc:I'm winning.
Marc:This is a victory.
Marc:Look, I made it out here.
Marc:But then I go to put gas in my car, and there is a torrential...
Marc:There's a wind that happens out there.
Marc:I mean, yeah, I mean, I'm a little outside of Vegas.
Marc:It's a suburb and I'm putting gas in my car and this torrential wind occurs like it was going to lift the goddamn roof.
Marc:off of where I was putting gas.
Marc:I don't know what you call it.
Marc:What do you call that?
Marc:The overhang, or not the overhang, but just what covers where the pumps are.
Marc:I thought it was just gonna lift up and fly off.
Marc:I almost lost my footing because of this wind, and there's like storm clouds everywhere.
Marc:And I'm looking around at other people and they're just sort of like putting gas in their car.
Marc:And I'm like, is this normal?
Marc:Is this just Vegas weather at this time of year?
Marc:I mean, what the fuck is happening?
Marc:There is no innocent weather.
Marc:I always feel when stuff like that happens, I'm like, this is it.
Marc:I don't know what this is, but I think a plane is going to fall out of the sky.
Marc:When do planes start falling out of the sky because of weird ozone, weird weather, weird weather patterns?
Marc:I mean, I feel that the air never looks normal, that there's something happening in the way the light diffracts off the air.
Marc:Now, everywhere I go, I'm like, this is not right.
Marc:So this torrential fucking wind happens.
Marc:Shit is blowing all over the place.
Marc:And it looks like it's just going to dump water out of the sky.
Marc:And it doesn't.
Marc:It's all gray.
Marc:It's dark.
Marc:It's windy.
Marc:And I'm like, bring on this torrential downpour for whatever, a few minutes.
Marc:Give it give us one of those, you know, passing torrential desert downpours.
Marc:That's what's going to happen.
Marc:It didn't happen.
Marc:It just kind of it didn't rain.
Marc:It just kind of dirted.
Marc:It just it was like a like a mild dirt storm just got dirted on.
Marc:And then I got in my car and it was windy as fuck for a few minutes.
Marc:And then it just broke up.
Marc:And I don't know what that was, but it didn't feel innocent.
Marc:And I don't know why I'm using the word innocent.
Marc:It felt malicious.
Marc:It felt angry.
Marc:It was weather born of apathy and spite.
Marc:On our part.
Marc:And dumb irresponsibility ignorance.
Marc:That's what this weather is.
Marc:This is a storm of fuck you.
Marc:You dumb shits.
Marc:That's what this weather is.
Marc:It's not innocent.
Marc:These are fuck you weather patterns.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Good luck.
Marc:Dummies.
Marc:It was that kind of storm.
Marc:What kind of storm was it?
Marc:What was sort of a good luck dummies dirt storm?
Guest:Okay, there you go.
Guest:There's some stuff that you didn't hear when the episodes aired.
Guest:But now because you're full Marin subscribers, we are able to bring it to you this way.
Guest:And honestly, I'm really excited that I can do this now.
Guest:uh when i take something out of an episode that uh you know is just not going to work in the context of of that full you know hour and a half hour and 25 minutes but now it can work for you so uh glad to bring it to you i'll be back with these uh whenever they seem right