BONUS A Few With Matthew
Guest:One, two, I don't hear myself.
Guest:Are you serious?
Guest:Oh, yeah, no.
Guest:Yeah, I don't.
Guest:I hear you, though.
Marc:Okay, wait, I'll fuck with it.
Guest:Did we start?
Guest:Is this already it?
Marc:Maybe, but not if you can't hear yourself.
Guest:Check, one, check.
Guest:I got you.
Guest:Oh, yeah, I'm in there.
Guest:I'm just low.
Guest:Speak into the mic.
Marc:How about now?
Marc:Check, check, check.
Marc:What's going on?
Marc:Boom, boom.
Guest:Yeah, can you hear yourself?
Guest:Matthew.
Guest:Really?
Guest:No, I got it.
Guest:Yeah, I'm there now.
Guest:Oh, you are?
Guest:Yeah, that did it.
Guest:Interesting.
Marc:What was that about?
Guest:I think I was just low, and I have a low register.
Marc:So you didn't hear yourself because you... I was speaking too quietly.
Guest:It was your fault?
Guest:Yeah, it was my fault.
Guest:That's what I'm saying.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:Anyway.
Marc:You got the knife out right away?
Marc:So, wait.
Guest:Yeah, you're right.
Marc:Matthew?
Guest:Yes?
Marc:The... Uh-oh.
Marc:I don't think people... Give me it.
Marc:I don't think people... You close a knife like this.
Marc:This is the whole thing.
Marc:You push this.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:God.
Guest:My gang member days are far behind me.
Marc:I took that from the apartment in Queens.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:It's a weird story behind this knife.
Marc:The woman who was living in the apartment when they got bedbugs, the German photographer- I would call that.
Marc:Her boyfriend apparently collected knives and whatnot, and this was there.
Marc:It was left.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:That was a dark time for some reason.
Marc:Was it-
Marc:Oh, that was the post-divorce.
Marc:I seem to recall it being somewhat dark.
Marc:For people that don't know, you were in the original podcasts.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know if it was the second episode.
Marc:A Few with Matthew, I think, was the name of the segment.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Where we'd almost argue...
Marc:about movies right is that what yeah yeah we had a near relationship killing discussion over i forget which movie exactly really did we i mean it got we took it to the edge i right to the edge right i mean we're here that's why but i haven't seen you in what how many years that's my fault though is it because i live in new york
Marc:Yeah, but I'd go to New York.
Marc:Yeah, that's true.
Marc:When did I see you, though?
Marc:Did you come to a show?
Marc:I think you came to a show.
Guest:Yeah, I just saw you in January.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:For a second.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I came out.
Guest:I was actually just about to start another movie, so I couldn't hang out or anything.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I made a point to come and see that live show because it was movie-related, and I'm somewhat a film guy.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:You came to see the live WTF taping.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Not my stand-up.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But we haven't talked since we had that fight.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's not true.
Guest:I don't want to overstate that case.
Guest:Oh, I remember what it was now.
Guest:Let's rehash it.
Guest:Let's bring it all back up.
Guest:I can't even remember what it was.
Marc:I'd like to see if I get emotional about it, whatever it was.
Marc:Oh, you can't remember what it was.
Guest:I just remembered I didn't love Where the Wild Things Are, the Spike Jonze edition.
Guest:So you could see why this was so heavy.
Marc:That was it?
Marc:Yeah, that was it.
Marc:I thought it was amazing.
Marc:I mean, because in recollection, I thought it was bold.
Guest:Yeah, it was bold.
Guest:And I think at this point, this much years in past, we can both agree it was bold.
Marc:It was bold.
Marc:Maybe not great, but it was unlike anything I'd seen before.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Look, he did what he wanted to do, and at this point, I respect any filmmaker with the power and the vision to do that.
Guest:Well, what did you think of her?
Guest:Who's her?
Guest:Oh, Her, the film Her?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's a spike.
Guest:I showed that to my senior citizens film appreciation class.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It went over big.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I liked it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did it stick with me?
Guest:I mean, Joaquin Phoenix, love him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Watch him do anything.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Read the phone book, et cetera.
Guest:But did I love it?
Marc:He's the new Gene Hackman.
Marc:Is that right?
Marc:Is that what it is?
Marc:I've only heard watch him read the phone book in reference to Gene Hackman.
Marc:To Gene Hackman?
Marc:Well, no, to any good actor.
Marc:That's a thing that people use.
Marc:I could watch them just eat.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:And they do at this point.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Some guys are better eaters.
Marc:You know who eats very well, who's great at eating on camera?
Marc:You're not a bad eater, but who are you going to talk to?
Marc:I do all right.
Marc:But I try to avoid it on camera because then you've got to
Marc:I worry about bites.
Guest:And where does it go, and on what line, and I believe me, as the editor, thank God you're thinking of those things.
Marc:I'm sort of like the guy who just put his fork down, always.
Marc:If I'm gonna be eating, I'm just chewing and sending the fork down.
Guest:Yeah, and thank you, because verisimilitude is one thing, but no one wants to watch the people eating in a dinner scene.
Marc:Eric Stoltz was all about eating the salad, and it was driving me nuts.
Marc:It was almost like, this is how I keep it interesting.
Guest:And it makes it infinitely more complicated based on trivial things that are going on to make the scene work.
Guest:Again, it's all about me.
Marc:No, but the editing is important.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's the whole thing.
Guest:That is the whole thing.
Guest:I mean, there's an argument to be made that it's the one purely cinematic art, but I wouldn't say that.
Guest:That would be self-serving of me to say.
Guest:What are you editing?
Guest:An independent feature film.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Directed by Brittany Snow.
Guest:She's an actress.
Guest:This is her feature film debut.
Marc:And she brought you in?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How do you get that job?
Guest:Well, I had made a previous film with my friend Larry Levine.
Guest:I edited called Black Bear.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And that got some notice.
Guest:It played at Sundance.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:People liked it.
Guest:What was that about?
Guest:Aubrey Plaza plays an actress, and it sort of is like a recreation of the scene.
Guest:Well, I don't want to spoil too much.
Guest:It's kind of a mind bender.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:How long has it been out?
Guest:It came out just before the pandemic.
Guest:We went to Sundance in 2020 with it, and then immediately it shut down.
Marc:Yeah, I edited it.
Marc:Did you go to Sundance?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How was that?
Marc:Fun?
Guest:It was awesome.
Marc:Are you directing movies?
Guest:No, I'm editing them.
Guest:No, I know.
Guest:But no directing?
Guest:I mean, that's my thoughts, but I'm really focusing on establishing more of a career as an editor, and it's a lot of fun.
Guest:It actually is the most fun part of the filmmaking process.
Marc:Did you have to let it go?
Marc:No.
Guest:Oh, the director.
Guest:Did I have to?
Guest:I mean, it was a little bit let go for me.
Guest:So it was like, I just look, I honestly always, when I made my own little movies, love the editing part the most.
Guest:We made a lot of little movies.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And, you know, I shot some of those too.
Guest:So I like shooting and break room live stuff.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:We did a lot of little movies on the fly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Exactly, on the fly, based on very little other than your charisma and our rapport.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And ideas?
Guest:Yeah, there was one or two ideas.
Guest:No, Brendan had a couple ideas.
Guest:He would send us out, like, go do this, and then we would do it.
Marc:There were some bits.
Marc:We did some fake commercials.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Well, those were written.
Guest:You had writers coming up with those, like the fake commercials.
Marc:But the out-in-the-street stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or the Korean tech innovation convention.
Marc:We pulled that together.
Marc:I don't think I have what it takes to be the guy pranking regular people.
Guest:But see, this is the thing.
Guest:Just when Marc Maron shows up at a Korean convention, that's the prank.
Guest:You don't have to do anything.
Guest:You just ask them questions, your normal questions.
Marc:I remember it was a stretch because it wasn't that interesting a convention.
Marc:There was like nothing there, right?
Guest:There was a lot of beautiful women pitching earplugs.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I'm not one of those guys that can fuck with people.
Marc:It makes me uncomfortable.
Guest:Yeah, but not deliberately.
Guest:But again, you take you, what you do, you put it into an unfamiliar locale.
Marc:No, that's okay.
Marc:I'd rather be curious and interested than sort of like Nathan Fieldering.
Marc:Well, yes, there's very few of us.
Marc:It makes me very uncomfortable to watch me.
Guest:Have you been watching it?
Guest:I watched it.
Guest:I'm in awe of what he's done.
Guest:Now, there is a sort of a moral gray area.
Marc:Did you watch the whole season?
Guest:The whole season.
Guest:Of the new one?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:I think I've seen pretty much everything he's done since he left Canada.
Guest:I'm on board.
Marc:This is the first time.
Marc:I think I watched a few of the Nathan Fielders for you.
Marc:I went back because I just finished this new one.
Marc:What's it called?
Marc:The rehearsal.
Marc:The rehearsal.
Marc:So there's only one season of that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I watched it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How did it make you feel?
Marc:Jewish.
Jewish.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:I think that's a theme that he was conveying.
Marc:Well, that was the sneak up theme.
Marc:Right.
Marc:The secret Zionist plot.
Marc:Well, no, it's really about sort of conservative middle class American Judaism.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Untethered.
Marc:You know, from from belief.
Marc:Right.
Guest:But culturally connected still.
Guest:Right.
Guest:When that line he has, he's like, I hadn't been to synagogue in years because it's so boring.
Guest:It's like the best the best moment in the whole thing.
Guest:Like, obviously, it's boring.
Guest:He's one of the Canadian Jews.
Guest:Is he a Montreal Jew?
Guest:I don't actually know that much that much further.
Marc:I don't think I can get him on the show.
Marc:I don't think he does these kind of things.
Marc:I think he does Sharpoint, but I don't think he talks like a person to people.
Marc:Really?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Maybe I'm wrong.
Marc:I think you should put the effort in.
Marc:Well, I like those kind of, you know, slightly Asperger-y Jews.
Marc:Right.
Guest:That's who he is.
Guest:That's exactly.
Guest:He's the peak Asperger-y Jew.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I've known a lot of them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's always a couple at Hebrew school.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's always one or two Jewish geniuses.
Guest:I was often told to leave them alone.
Guest:Stop that.
Guest:Stop that, Matthew.
Guest:What, recently?
Guest:I mean, not recently, no.
Guest:I've learned my lesson.
Guest:I've left him alone for 30-something years at least.
Marc:Good for you.
Marc:Things are hard enough for him.
Guest:Exactly, exactly.
Guest:Well, no, he's turned a downside into an upside.
Marc:He's an economist now.
Marc:Is he?
Marc:He's a mathematician.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He's a whatever.
Guest:He's everything.
Marc:Whatever those kids were.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:The ones that turned out okay turned out really okay.
Marc:Yeah, I know one.
Guest:They were geniuses.
Guest:I have one I know works for Raytheon.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, things like that.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Guest:And he remembers.
Guest:Oh, pfft.
Guest:Yeah, every time he's building the new missile, he's like, why did they?
Guest:Matthew works.
Guest:He's writing it on the side of them.
Guest:I'm going to call this one Weiss.
Guest:This drone is called Weiss.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, and I'm going to aim at it.
Guest:So you guys, but you still have, you're over 1,000 episodes in, right?
Guest:What episode are you up to?
Marc:I don't know, 1,400 and something.
Guest:But there are still some white whales out there you talked about.
Marc:I guess.
Marc:But what eventually happens with me is it's sort of like, ah, fuck them.
Marc:Right.
Marc:At this point, if they don't know to come to me, screw them.
Marc:But I know that there's a lot of podcasts.
Marc:I know it's annoying now.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Thousands, you know that.
Marc:So these guys are getting pestered at all times with podcasts.
Marc:Do you have a podcast?
Marc:It's a big joke.
Marc:Does your car have a podcast?
Marc:Does your cat have a podcast?
Marc:Does your bike have a podcast?
Marc:Does your mom have a podcast?
Marc:Does your hand have a podcast holding it like that?
Guest:It does, actually.
Guest:It's the thumb.
Guest:But one of the few times I got out of the edit room this month was to go to a party that my friend Larry, who directed Black Bear, took me to.
Guest:I know Larry.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, you've met Larry.
Guest:Larry Levine, yeah.
Guest:You guys both used to live in the same neighborhood, I think.
Guest:Right, I remember Larry.
Guest:And actually, he moved to not too far from here either, but anyway, that's beside that.
Guest:And we were at a party, and he's like, oh, meet my friends.
Guest:And it was actually, I thought it was going to be like...
Guest:I forgot my mantra.
Guest:But it wasn't.
Marc:You thought it was going to be 1972?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When was I there?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:All I know is what I learned from Woody Allen.
Marc:You thought you were going to be the one-line Jeff Goldblum had?
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:I thought I was going to run into that guy.
Guest:But it was actually very cool down to earth.
Guest:At one point, Larry introduced me to somebody.
Guest:We were talking about movies.
Guest:I can't believe that.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And he goes, oh, this guy does a podcast.
Guest:And I was like, oh, okay.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I had a couple drinks, so I said, oh, I'd love to put another podcast on my phone that I don't listen to, but to help your numbers.
Guest:And then I go and look.
Guest:He's got the number three movie podcast.
Guest:Big guy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, didn't I feel stupid?
Guest:And for some reason, he wasn't that friendly to me after that.
Marc:No?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I wonder if he talked about you on the air.
Guest:No, I kept saying, and what was the name of your podcast again?
Guest:And I looked it up, and I'm like, oh, geez, he's talked to all these awesome people.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:He maybe even talked to Nathan Fielder, as a matter of fact.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Who was this guy?
Guest:I got to look it up again, because that just completely escaped my mind.
Guest:But look at the top five movies.
Guest:You know what's weird, though, is-
Guest:But you got to be careful is my point.
Guest:There's so many podcasts, you don't know you're going to run.
Marc:My point was is that people are tired of them.
Marc:It gets harder to get people to do them because they're like, really?
Marc:Where do I got to go?
Guest:Is it in your car?
Guest:So we've come full circle.
Guest:It went from like, what the hell is that?
Guest:To like, oh, it's a legitimate thing.
Marc:People coming to my house going like, where am I?
Marc:This is kind of interesting.
Marc:This guy's got a podcast.
Marc:Who?
Marc:The guy's parking the car.
Marc:But you just say, like, I was there, I was on the... No, no, we get respect.
Marc:But my point is, it's like, yeah, sure, there's people like Larry David, who's never done the podcast.
Marc:There's people like Albert Brooks, who I'm relatively in touch with.
Marc:I can get in touch with him.
Marc:I have people in common.
Marc:I've met him a few times.
Marc:But they just don't want to do it.
Marc:And there's nothing I can do about that.
Marc:Because what's in it for them kind of thing?
Marc:No, I just think it's like, what do I got to go do that for?
Marc:Especially this one.
Marc:The fact that Seinfeld did it for reasons I think were borderline kind of like, fine, I'll talk to Mark.
Marc:That's exactly what it was.
Marc:You know, we're going to fight.
Marc:He has no respect for me, that guy.
Marc:But it was kind of interesting that he did it.
Guest:He can't play colleges anymore, Mark.
Guest:That's why.
Marc:Oh, yeah, because he can't say anything.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, I think that he had people in his ear.
Marc:I think Papa, he knew about me.
Marc:But he would never have me on his show.
Marc:Right.
Guest:But- In a car getting coffee.
Guest:And I think that bothers me.
Guest:I think that bothers me a little bit.
Guest:Yeah, because you're a comedian, and you really are associated with coffee as much as- No, but I'm funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah, I forgot about that.
Marc:I'm a guy.
Marc:I'd like to think I'm one of the guys, but maybe I'm not.
Marc:But my point being that there are some people that just don't want to have that conversation.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I don't know what they think is going to happen.
Guest:I can adapt.
Guest:They don't want to be marinized-
Marc:Right.
Marc:Or they don't want to be, you know, I don't know what they expect.
Marc:Exposed.
Marc:I think that's it, but like I can adapt to that.
Guest:I don't want to be exposed.
Guest:Am I being exposed?
Guest:A little.
Marc:I mean, fuck.
Marc:I mean, but you can't help yourself.
Marc:There's nothing.
Marc:What do you think you're hiding?
Marc:Ever.
Guest:All right, I'll tell you.
Guest:Ever since.
Guest:No, I'm not going to tell you like that.
Guest:You got to work harder than that.
Guest:You're better than that.
Marc:Oh, come on.
Marc:I just remember.
Marc:Wasn't there a point in our friendship where it was over?
Guest:Probably.
Guest:In Queens.
Marc:I remember walking down the street.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it was like, fuck you with your Alexander technique and your arrogance.
Marc:I mean, who the fuck do you think I am?
Guest:If it wasn't for the Alexander Technique, I'd be crippled today.
Guest:You don't know how badly my spine and neck are fucked up from being an editor and sitting in a chair for 12 hours a day.
Guest:Oh, sorry.
Marc:I was just trying to do that.
Marc:No, it was over like you thought.
Marc:I remember what it was.
Marc:What was it?
Marc:It was like, who the fuck do you think you are?
Marc:You think you know everything about movies?
Guest:Right.
Guest:That was because I believe on the heels of the aforementioned dust up.
Guest:About Wild Thing?
Guest:That was really what did it, huh?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:It's hard to believe.
Guest:You pompous ass.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Who the fuck he... And I've never heard anyone say that to me, so it really came as a shock.
Guest:No.
Guest:All right.
Guest:It may have been said to me once or twice.
Guest:But I also recall the makeup... Well, it wasn't makeup sex, but it was the makeup time where you said...
Guest:And this is all very pre this show taking off.
Guest:It was happening, but it wasn't like what it is today.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And you said, I'm playing at the beer garden near your house.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Remember that show?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And it was like- Terrible.
Guest:Five people.
Guest:I thought it was a funny show.
Guest:I enjoyed myself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I was there to see you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that was after that.
Guest:We went and ate at the diner.
Guest:At Neptune?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that was it?
Guest:And then we were back?
Guest:I mean, a little pancakes.
Guest:It wasn't irreparable?
Guest:I mean, I don't know.
Guest:The fact that I'm sitting here talking to you right now should be evidence to the contrary of that.
Marc:I always felt that there was, it wasn't tension, but there was some kind of strange ego thing, struggle we had.
Guest:That was my belief.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know what it was about.
Guest:Well, you would think that.
Guest:You would think that.
Marc:Yeah, see that.
Marc:I know, I know.
Marc:Yeah, I thought it was- And you're always talking like fucking Cedar was a genius.
Marc:And that was Sam Cedar?
Marc:Julie?
Marc:Which one?
Marc:Sam Cedar.
Marc:I was?
Marc:I could see how that would bother you.
Marc:Talking up Cedar, like Cedar knew everything.
Marc:Like about politics, probably.
Marc:Yeah, probably.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It was just like- Really?
Guest:Well, at some point- Let's just get something straight right now.
Guest:I don't think that-
Marc:Well, I mean, at some point, because of the nature of the show and because of the nature of Sam and because of the nature of like, I, you know, if he gets hold of this, it's going to start a thing.
Marc:I know.
Marc:He lives for this shit.
Marc:He wants to start a thing.
Marc:Oh, totally.
Marc:Let's not tell him about it.
Marc:No, I just hide it.
Marc:You know, and I brought Sam in, you know, like that, you know, the break room live thing.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:My deal was to do a show and I needed the money because I was in the middle of a divorce, but there was no way I was going to be able to talk about anything almost.
Marc:I was pretty shattered.
Marc:We did that fucking horrendous short film when we went to the store and we found the box that Mishno was on.
Guest:Oh my God, yes.
Guest:That was your New Year's Eve celebration.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:oh yeah but uh that was the first thing we ever did i think yeah yeah but so i'm like you know you gotta pull salmon we gotta get salmon like i told the air american people i'm like i can't do it without salmon yeah too much to carl ginsburg's dismay oh i remember that guy so i brought salmon and it just was like wow the monster yeah it was funny he was he's very funny i like him when you guys your attention is funny that's part of the yeah until it's not he doesn't want he doesn't know when to stop
Guest:Maybe he does now, but he just doesn't.
Guest:Well, he's on that fielder spectrum a little bit, right?
Guest:No.
Marc:He's just at the low end.
Marc:No, no, no.
Guest:He's just an aggressively charming Jew.
Guest:He's not spectrum Jew.
Guest:He will tell you that he has trouble with emotions.
Guest:He will say this.
Marc:Yeah, but that is not- It's not a feature?
Marc:I don't think he's one of those hyper-intelligent, borderline spectrum Jews.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think he's an emotionally broken, incredibly charming, smart, defensive Jew.
Marc:And funny, and very funny.
Marc:So emotionally broken.
Marc:I'm not going to give him the credit of being some sort of latent genius.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I wouldn't say... Just because you have Asperger's doesn't mean you're a latent genius, I don't think.
Guest:I'm not a medical expert.
Marc:His emotional problems are not a physiological problem.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:I'm just not doing that.
Guest:That's just your diagnosis.
Marc:That's my diagnosis.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Thank you, Dr. Marin.
Marc:Well, what is your problem?
Guest:How's your marriage going?
Guest:Sorry.
Guest:I mean... Are you married?
Guest:You're married, too.
Guest:Well, I'm in a long-term committed partnership, so we're not actually married.
Guest:Oh, still?
Guest:Yeah, still.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's technical.
Guest:It's complicated.
Guest:Is it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:You mean there's... For, you know... We don't have to talk about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean... It's fine.
Guest:Is she okay?
Guest:Yeah, she's great.
Guest:She's starting a new career as an occupational therapist.
Guest:Oh, that's great.
Guest:Yeah, it is great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And everything's great.
Guest:But, you know, she got sick.
Guest:She had cancer.
Guest:So there was this long period of recuperation and recovery.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:She was on...
Guest:Medical assistance.
Guest:Is she okay?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:She's totally cured of that.
Guest:Oh, that's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:What a thing to overcome.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Definitely was a major, major thing to overcome.
Guest:And you hung in there.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:That's love.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Good for you.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Finally, somebody said it.
Guest:Worth the credit.
Guest:I deserve credit.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I only was doing it for the recognition.
Marc:For hanging in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, but it was a rough period, and yeah, we're coming out of it now.
Guest:But actually, to be honest, part of the discussion is should we move out here?
Guest:No.
Marc:There's not going to be any water here.
Marc:The water's going away.
Marc:But it's all on your porch.
Marc:Yeah, the liquid death.
Marc:That's why I'm holding on to it.
Marc:Now I'm not going to give you anything.
Guest:You're going to bathe in the liquid death.
Marc:You're going to do something.
Marc:You're going to need something.
Marc:Don't come out.
Marc:It's going to be a disaster in two years.
Marc:Really?
Marc:That's what I think.
Marc:That's what I'm telling everybody.
Guest:Are you preparing your escape program?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah, I applied for permanent residency in Canada.
Guest:Oh, no shit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:That's sort of a green card thing.
Marc:It's not the same as applying for citizenship.
Marc:I don't know if I'll get it.
Guest:But you could permanently relocate there with those credentials.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I have to be there two out of every five years if I get it.
Marc:Two out of every five.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you could keep this place and just have that as your escape.
Guest:I've got to get out of California within two years.
Marc:No shit.
Guest:There's not going to be any water here.
Marc:You quote me.
Guest:I mean, I know the Colorado and all that is drying up.
Guest:I've heard that hearsay.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:It's not hearsay.
Guest:Right.
Right.
Marc:How many pictures?
Guest:I haven't investigated deeply.
Marc:Yeah, I just feel like I'm not, what do you call it?
Marc:A prepper.
Marc:Crying wolf.
Marc:Right, okay.
Marc:No, I'm not a prepper.
Marc:Why would you want to live in this fucking world?
Marc:After the shit goes down.
Marc:Oh, the whole world?
Guest:Or you mean the West Coast world?
Marc:These people that are bunkering up.
Marc:It's like, okay, so you're going to live underground for how long and then come out and do what?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Just rule the ants.
Marc:What are you going to do?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I've seen all the movies.
Guest:You shoot zombies.
Guest:Not good.
Guest:Yeah, no, it's not good.
Marc:The movies, they never look like, wow, that's worth living for.
Marc:Nope.
Guest:It doesn't.
Guest:You're eating babies and things.
Marc:Yeah, I really want to raise a family in my guarded bunker.
Marc:I mean, look, for me, if you- Shooting people because they're coming after my liquid death.
Guest:That is the premise.
Guest:That is some brand marketing right there.
Guest:You do a whole feature that's just about- Me in the bunker with crates of liquid death and zombies coming after my water.
Marc:It's going to happen.
Guest:So where in Canada?
Guest:Do you care?
Marc:I like Vancouver, but look, it's all a dream.
Guest:But you're taking steps for the dream.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:The steps have made me comfortable.
Marc:I don't know if it'll happen.
Marc:But if it does, I think by the time it does, if I'm alive and nothing's a complete disaster, it seems like a reasonable place to sort of wind down.
Marc:I see.
Marc:Play out the string.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I'm definitely, you know, I'm not the guy that's sort of like, I got to keep working.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:When I don't work, I get depressed.
Marc:But I don't, like, I'm a little, like, it's like, I don't know who I am after a while.
Marc:But I think I could resolve that by talking to people more, socializing more.
Marc:I see.
Marc:Well, that's a concept.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But couldn't you do this from there anyway?
Guest:Sure, I could.
Guest:You know.
Guest:Right.
Guest:What's your plan?
Guest:You're 47?
Guest:Yeah, 47.
Marc:How'd you get 10 years younger than me?
Marc:Or more, 12 years?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was it always that way?
Guest:My parents were at Woodstock.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:So they were of that generation.
Guest:Were they?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You were always this much younger than me?
Guest:I mean, I used to be further away in age to you, but now the gap is narrowing as we age.
Marc:Yeah, same with my parents.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:They're both alive, and it's like they're not that older than me.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Because they had me in their 20s.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So now they're just sort of like, are you just 20 years older than me?
Marc:Right, exactly.
Guest:When you're 60 and they're 80, it's way different than when you're 5 and they're 25.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Way different.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:So when I was 33 and you were, I don't know, 54 or something?
Guest:Was I?
Guest:No.
Guest:42.
Guest:What year were you born?
Guest:63.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:So you're 12 years older than me.
Guest:So yeah.
Guest:So when I was 33 and you were 55, that's- 45.
Guest:45, sorry.
Guest:You must have seemed just- Is that when I knew you?
Guest:So much older than you.
Marc:Is that how long ago it was?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When we were working together?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you were like an annoying kid.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I thought that was my job.
Marc:Is Sam my age?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, he's like three years younger than you.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Something like that.
Guest:Everyone's younger than me.
Guest:Sam looked up to you.
Guest:Huh?
Guest:Sam looked up to you.
Guest:No, he did not.
Guest:He came out to be an intern.
Guest:That's a famous story.
Marc:No respect for anybody.
Guest:I think it's the Asperger's is why.
No.
Marc:It's not disrespect in an aggressive way.
Guest:There is a lack of affect.
Guest:I'm going to keep on this.
Guest:With him?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If we're going to go there on Sam, I don't think it's a ... I mean, of course, granted.
Guest:He was damaged as a child somehow.
Guest:You're a Cedar apologist in terms of his emotional capacity.
Guest:No, let's not start that.
Guest:I'm just trying to call it like I see it.
Guest:But yeah, look, Sam is the one who brought me in to break Room Live, right?
Guest:Sam is, he's been a doorway to a lot of things for me.
Guest:No one has made me laugh harder than Sam.
Marc:Oh, that's the soundbite.
Marc:Sam Cedar, when he's funny, is very funny.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And that's a reality.
Marc:And that's a gift.
Marc:And I always appreciate that.
Guest:And that is an ultimate compliment from one such as yourself.
Marc:I recognize that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But when it comes to being a know-it-all, it's a little rough.
Guest:I know.
Marc:But it's very specific, though.
Marc:It's only about politics.
Guest:But see, that takes the fact.
Marc:You get them into TV and movies.
Guest:Yeah, and he'll declare ignorance and just back out.
Guest:But that takes us back to, I think, what happened between us.
Guest:We're a bunch of three know-it-alls, so you get together, and it gets a little bit of same magnet with same magnet.
Marc:I don't think I'm a know-it-all.
Marc:I'm not a know-it-all, but I take any sort of posturing as a personal affront.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:No, I see that.
Marc:So it's not it's not like I know better than you.
Marc:It's just sort of like you don't fucking know better than me.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's not that I have another answer.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's your it's your attitude of superiority that I am offended by.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's well, you should be because the superior attitude is of no use to anybody.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I'm glad you I know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:See, it's that tone, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I mean, don't even argue with me on that one.
Marc:Did you work it out?
Marc:You worked that through?
Guest:No, it's a daily struggle.
Guest:It's like, just today, for this five minutes, I won't be an asshole.
Marc:I don't have to say anything.
Marc:Do you do that?
Marc:I don't have to respond to that.
Guest:I'm thinking it, but as I'm listening to myself respond, it's not always working.
Guest:But yes, that is the exercise.
Guest:That's the exercise.
Marc:Just wait, that's it.
Guest:there exactly and yeah you get a lot of practice when you're in a long term committed relationship with not putting your foot in your mouth or saying something that you regret so yeah there's always another opportunity right around the corner if you don't do that one right I couldn't win with him that's the thing it's like oh no he will last word you to death he will last word you to death for sure yeah
Guest:Well, don't you just see what he does on his show?
Guest:I don't want to keep talking about Sam, but that is definitely one of those aspects.
Guest:That's what brought us together.
Guest:I've never watched his show.
Guest:What is it called?
Guest:The Majority Report with Sam Sears.
Marc:Oh, it's still on.
Guest:Oh, yeah, it's still on.
Guest:I do a regular movie segment as Matthew, the film guy, who he's-
Marc:Oh, so you're doing a few with Matthew with Sam.
Guest:I mean, but it's much more deliberately the pretentious film guy.
Guest:Oh, so it's a character?
Guest:It's based on true life.
Guest:You're the comic relief?
Guest:I mean, I try to actually suggest arty movies that his audience- Does he do any other comedy on there?
Guest:Well, he'll have other comedians on.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:He has, like, David Feldman, or he has Andy Kindler, or... I mean, I know he's had you on there before.
Guest:You've been there.
Guest:We even spoke once, I think, on air there.
Guest:You called in.
Guest:That's a long time ago.
Guest:Yeah, I was actually talking about Black Bear, and you called in, and they said, like, well, forget what you were saying.
Marc:Wow, yeah.
Guest:So he wants you on the show.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:No, I don't mind.
Marc:I don't mind doing it if I've got time.
Marc:Let's do some movie talk.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:What have you seen?
Guest:Oh, I hear Where the Wild Things Are is pretty good.
Guest:Because it's streaming?
Guest:I believe it's on Netflix.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I saw it in the theater.
Guest:I did, too.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I thought it was very bold.
Guest:It was bold.
Guest:It was bold.
Guest:I had some questions.
Guest:I had some questions.
Guest:But it's certainly not worth losing a friend over.
Guest:What were your questions?
Guest:why why even do it yeah why why no no the outfits more outfits less like divorce story that was i think what the gandolfini was a monster he was i actually did a day of um booming for their adr so i was in a room with gandolfini as he was doing all those bits yeah in fact he actually wanted to do lines to somebody because there was no one in the room yeah and he looked at me yeah and he gave me those like tony soprano i'm gonna fucking kill you eyes and and he and he was like oh thanks for
Guest:like i gave him back something but i was like legitimately afraid i was really because he was fucking giving this death stare and he was getting close for the puppet yeah he was like ain't had to be angry oh yeah and he was like like he was like the rage right so he's doing the voiceovers oh yeah was spike there uh spike was there yeah i mean this was before i saw the movie so i couldn't really discuss my issues with it sure but uh anyway so you're part of it
Guest:I mean, I'm in the credits there somewhere.
Guest:Are you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I should probably give this movie more respect then, right?
Guest:No, I mean, you should be honest.
Guest:I should be.
Guest:I am.
Guest:Thank you, Mark.
Guest:You've taught me that.
Guest:Honesty.
Guest:It may not work out in the short term, but in the long term... Never.
Marc:It can go either way.
Guest:It can go either way.
Guest:Yeah, it really can.
Guest:It's not going to draw.
Guest:But since I'm working on this movie that's sort of a...
Guest:You know, independent personal story about a woman who's dealing with a basically an eating disorder, but it's sort of more complicated than that.
Guest:The director has me watching movies that are like sort of the the new indie crop that I've sort of not gotten to.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And I've seen a couple that have been really amazing.
Guest:You probably saw them all.
Guest:I mean, I doubt it.
Guest:I finally saw a worst person in the world.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I like that.
Guest:That was a revelation.
Guest:Not too weird, but not too commercial.
Marc:It was like a novel.
Marc:It was completely relatable and had its own pace.
Marc:And it was like grown up.
Marc:I don't know, man.
Marc:Yeah, grown up.
Guest:And it was about growing up, which I appreciate.
Guest:Yeah, I thought it was great.
Guest:What else?
Guest:And I saw Bo Burnham's movie, Eighth Grade, finally.
Guest:That's a good movie.
Guest:I was really blown away by that.
Guest:The performance especially.
Guest:I don't know how you get a little girl to be that present, relatable, honest, real.
Guest:And I thought it avoided the sort of cliches, right?
Marc:Cliche junior high movies?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So those are the last two movies I've seen in a month because I've basically just been working.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:And all the Nathan Fielder stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We watched that a couple half hours here and there.
Marc:Did you watch that movie about the abortion that maybe always, sometimes, sometimes, always, maybe?
Marc:No.
Marc:You know what I'm talking about?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:That was actually, I think, at Sundance at the same time that Blackbird was.
Marc:I talked to that woman.
Guest:Eliza Hitman.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I actually was close to maybe editing her first movie.
Marc:It's a difficult interview.
Marc:Was it?
Marc:A little bit.
Marc:not sure i get excited and directors are hard because they don't want to let on too much you know because they want you to have your own experience yeah exactly unless they're michael mann uh or you know yeah somebody like that but uh so it was it was sort of like i was like reading into a lot of stuff and trying to get you know and she's not you know
Guest:Well, you get that sense that they have their idea, but if they put it out there, then it sort of collapses all the quantum possibilities that the audience has and some people are going to be disappointed.
Guest:So you got to kind of make that decision.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So why don't you want to direct a movie?
Guest:Oh, did I say I didn't want to?
Guest:I just don't see it as something I'm pursuing actively, but you got a script, I'll read it.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:I mean, I can do it.
Guest:In fact, from editing, you sit there going like, oh, my God, why didn't they do this?
Guest:Why didn't they do that?
Guest:So it's obviously got to be part of your skill set as an editor.
Guest:And, you know, a lot of directors started as editors.
Guest:I think you'll direct a big movie.
Guest:Well, thank you, Mark.
Marc:You directed Ted Alexandro's special?
Guest:Yep, a couple specials for him.
Guest:I did a comedy series.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Yeah, one was sort of bigger budget, you know, and one was a little bit more lo-fi.
Marc:Now, what's the dynamic?
Marc:Do you make suggestions?
Marc:Because, like, if you directed me in a comedy special, how is that going to work?
Guest:You just do what I say and shut up.
Guest:I mean, he was very collaborative, and actually Mary had a lot of input on the visual.
Guest:He said, let's just do the visuals.
Guest:Mary, your wife?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Is she part of the?
Guest:She's part of the production team, yeah.
Guest:She went to film school.
Guest:In fact, don't you know how Mary and I met?
Guest:Maybe I didn't have told you this.
Guest:On a train or something?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:Literally, she made a comment.
Guest:At Lima?
Guest:No, but these were all great guesses.
Guest:In the alternate universe, those are nice.
Marc:That's how all guests should respond to me when I interrupt constantly, when I try to finish sentences.
Guest:Nice try, but no.
Guest:I'll give that try a six.
Guest:That one's an eight.
Guest:That was so close.
Guest:I'll remember when you tell me.
Guest:This one's even better, though, because it involves you directly.
Guest:She made a comment about one of the posters I had in the background on when we did one of the Childless Men bits where we were talking about that movie.
Guest:That was funny.
Guest:It was a Robert Brisson poster for Lancelot Dulac.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And she's like, oh, Lancelot Dulac.
Guest:It was at your apartment.
Guest:It was at my apartment.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I'm like, who's this lady who has exquisite taste in a French film?
Guest:There you go.
Marc:But she was a comedy fan.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She was around.
Guest:She actually waited tables at both Stand Up New York, Caroline's, and the Comedy Cellar for many years.
Guest:Right, because I remember her.
Marc:Yeah, Childless Men.
Marc:What was the name of that segment?
Guest:Yeah, Childless Men on film, and we did one on art, too, where we went to the art museum.
Marc:Those were good.
Guest:Yeah, those were good.
Guest:Are they around?
Guest:But just to finish, she was a Facebook friend of yours, so that's how she saw it.
Guest:Facebook.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Those are still around.
Guest:Those are on there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, they're on the- You can Google those.
Guest:You actually can go to my Vimeo.
Guest:Was it amazing?
Guest:Go where?
Guest:Go to my Vimeo.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Vimeo.com slash Langdon Boom.
Guest:Langdon Boom.
Guest:Langdon Boom.
Guest:Don't ask me to explain it.
Guest:It was a production company name I chose when I was 12.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:That was the other thing.
Marc:Remember, we were doing a streaming show before anyone really could stream.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:And do you remember the people that built the website?
Marc:It was like they were building NASA.
Guest:No, I don't remember.
Guest:I didn't get- Oh, you came in later?
Marc:I wasn't privy to the back side.
Marc:The amount of money they put into that fucking website so we could post live and also post our archive of film.
Marc:It was a billion dollars.
Marc:It took forever.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it was like we were talking about- It was like somebody learned how to do something.
Marc:on that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And we did everything we could to make these live shows and it was just not a thing yet.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It just was a year ahead of time or something.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You stream.
Guest:I remember that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Actually, I think the streaming thing was Sam's idea, but you know, I don't know.
Marc:Was it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think the break room was my idea.
Marc:I don't know if it's true.
Guest:Moving into the break room, that was a pinnacle good idea.
Guest:That was me.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because Carl Ginsberg was just at odds with us the whole time, and he has yet to ever talk to me again.
Marc:Yeah, I was going to say you still talk to him.
Marc:No.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I don't even know why he was mad at me.
Marc:I don't even know why he would be mad at me, to be honest.
Guest:Why would anybody be mad at you?
Guest:There's absolutely no reason.
Marc:No, there's plenty of reasons that people have.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:that they could have.
Marc:I don't know their side of things, but I'm sure I've upset some people.
Marc:But with him, I don't know.
Marc:It was just always a struggle.
Marc:He wanted us to create, he thought we were gonna do The Daily Show.
Marc:And that was the thing about Sam is Sam always knew
Marc:In his heart, that break one would go absolutely nowhere.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:No, he knew that.
Marc:So that was always the way he approached it.
Guest:Because this was like the flaming embers of America was already- It was a regrouping.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Oh, right.
Marc:It was the third swing at the bat.
Marc:Right, and he just got such, and all he wanted to be was on radio, and they would never let us on the radio.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That whole year.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And even when they had people quit, or they had room on the radio, they would not put us on the radio.
Guest:He still, I listen to his show almost every day.
Guest:It's where I get my politics, because I'm not ashamed to say that.
Guest:And when majority majority report, but he routinely mentions the decision they made when Howard Stern quit to take you off the air.
Guest:Like the same week as if they were saying like, no, no, we don't want to actually succeed.
Guest:We don't want to.
Guest:Oh, it was like that.
Guest:The morning sedition thing.
Guest:That's a whole other ball.
Guest:Black.
Marc:but don't you don't you aren't you glad now that that happened and this happened this way like yeah oh for sure would you rather been howard stern now than mark maron no dude i i mean look you know i learned a lot there obviously um and getting up at three in the morning for the rest of my life and i could live without that yeah the podcast lifestyle is way easier
Marc:But ultimately, yeah, that job would have, it was just impossible to do almost anything else, even go out to dinner.
Marc:No, I know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was brutal doing morning radio, especially morning radio that had to be loaded up with news because there was a lot of production that had happened.
Marc:It wasn't like I could roll in at 530 to go on at six and then just start rambling.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's what Brenda did.
Marc:I had to pretend like I knew what I was talking about.
Guest:with mark riley oh yeah right i remember those days and there was a woman too at some point briefly yeah yeah see she could be mad at me yeah i bet she is yeah well that's yeah that's what i'm doing right now is doing this editing i'm like i roll out of bed i'm editing for 10 or 12 hours i eat something and i go back to bed it's been it's we're trying to make the sundance yeah so it's how close are you to finishing it
Marc:And you're working, you're in there with the director or you have her come by every once in a while?
Guest:She's there actually a lot.
Guest:So it's been cool.
Guest:We've been developing a really great working relationship, which is always the question when you get, you know, you get hired and you meet them, but then you actually get in there and it's been great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Lynn always picked good editors and she was always on top of it.
Marc:She did two of my specials in the movie and I got to watch her, you know, do, you know, have a sense of that.
Marc:It's weird when you do the movies like she did or a couple of them, the improv movies is those people.
Marc:There's only a couple of people that can do that.
Marc:Yeah, because you have to sort of edit as it's going in your mind.
Marc:You have to know that you have what you need in a way that you don't when you're doing a scripted movie.
Guest:She must have had a great script supervisor to keep track of all that stuff or just a great editor because that's editing an improv based movie, which actually this one I'm doing has a lot in it.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Super challenge.
Guest:It is, right?
Guest:To make it look seamless, to make it look like a movie.
Guest:Swamberg does that too.
Guest:Oh, well, yeah.
Guest:He's one of the progenitors of the mumblecore.
Guest:I got a sheet with some ideas on it.
Marc:Right, but when you're shooting that stuff, you've got to know how it's coming together.
Marc:You see it as it evolves.
Marc:It's kind of interesting.
Guest:It's very interesting.
Guest:Bold.
Guest:But so Lynn did two of your specials.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And so you took ideas from her?
Guest:How did that go?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I mean...
Marc:we had discussions about what stays and what goes, or if she had problems with jokes and she wanted me to think about them, I would do it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But ultimately, you know, I have a pretty good sense of that as I get closer to the special, knowing the time that I have to fill, like 73 minutes.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Somehow or another, but working with her was great because I trusted her implicitly and she had a vision for it and I would listen to her.
Marc:And if we would discuss content or the nature of jokes, whether they fit or whether they were wrong-minded, I would listen to her.
Guest:Is that before the taping or after once it's captured to keep in the special?
Marc:No, like, by the time I got to those specials, you know, I'd worked the shit out of the stuff.
Marc:And I, like, on Too Real, or was that one she did?
Marc:Yeah, Too Real and End Time.
Marc:It's fun.
Marc:On Too Real, like, the day or two before, you know, they're looking for about 75 minutes.
Marc:Right.
Marc:The day or two before...
Marc:You know, I still had like 90 minutes and I just was like, I had found a few callbacks and there was definitely a through line.
Marc:So I just kind of looked at all the bits, you know, on a piece of paper, on an outline.
Marc:I'm like, that doesn't need to be in there.
Marc:That doesn't mean it doesn't really serve the arc.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And this is its own story.
Marc:So for time cuts.
Yeah.
Marc:Well, just sort of, but ultimately you're looking for not just time cuts.
Marc:If you're going to try to put something together that seems to be- Cohesive.
Guest:Yeah, a thing.
Guest:Of a piece.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:I get you.
Guest:Because you're not just up there telling yuck yucks.
Guest:Well, I know.
Marc:I eventually began to challenge myself to try to do it of a piece just by using callbacks, really.
Marc:It's just a trick.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You heard it here first, folks.
Guest:It's just a trick.
Marc:For sure.
Marc:Definitely.
Marc:It is.
Guest:It's a skill.
Guest:It's a skill.
Marc:No, it's a skill, but like people find it very impressive.
Guest:But isn't that you're finding a theme naturally?
Guest:Like it's naturally these things connect and you don't, you didn't mean it.
Marc:Well, it's a way to, it's a way out of segueing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I see.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So you kind of like, you know, the segue is gone.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And if you, you know.
Marc:So you don't go up there going, oh, what else folks?
Marc:What else?
Yeah.
Marc:These airplanes are kind of wild.
Marc:Yeah, what about, it just hurt.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:What about dogs?
Marc:Yeah, I got a dog.
Marc:He's got a dog out there.
Marc:This guy's got a dog.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I just think it's evolved.
Marc:And you do long form stuff, you can kind of drop things in.
Marc:Like all this stuff is long form.
Marc:It's an ongoing conversation, all the bits.
Guest:So things come and go.
Guest:Okay, but my question is then when you capture it, then in the editing, are you also doing that?
Guest:Because, I mean, definitely when I worked with Ted, he was the one deciding if a joke was in or not.
Guest:Like, I would have my opinion.
Marc:I really tried to get that first taping, the first, you know, out of the two, as tight as possible.
Marc:So you wouldn't have to edit.
Marc:Well, just sort of like, let's get, you know, you're hoping that the first one will be the one.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then, you know, if you got to, you know, pick up shit, you can pull from the second one.
Marc:But so I got that as close to time as possible.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:And I don't think there was a lot of trimming.
Guest:So she didn't really have much to do.
Guest:It's just a very easy job.
Marc:Well, she had to visualize it.
Marc:She had to get the good set director.
Marc:She had to pull, like we had, we were going to do it at a theater that we couldn't do it at anymore because she couldn't get a shot she wanted.
Marc:And I respected that.
Marc:Like a crane or something could get in there.
Guest:Yep.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:An old theater.
Marc:And we ended up doing End Times Fun at a black box theater that we just built out, which I don't recommend.
Marc:Because it changes the audience dynamic and everything for the show?
Marc:I think those kind of theaters do have an expectation, and it's not hilarious.
Marc:Stall them.
Marc:Kind of.
Marc:It's like Godot.
Guest:This is theater, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Even no matter what you do to the stage, it still has that vibe.
Marc:If you put the happy and sad thing up or- Nothing.
Marc:Nothing, geez.
Marc:I mean, when you're in an old theater, usually they shoot at those theaters from the early 1900s.
Marc:That's what most of the theaters that we do are, right?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Where the sound is just built to- Pantages or whatever.
Marc:They're kind of their own personality, and they're all kind of the same personality, and you don't think about it much.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, the big proscenium.
Marc:It's sort of like, yeah, he's at a theater.
Marc:Perfectly designed.
Marc:Yeah, but like when you're in a sparse kind of, you know, 300 seat black box.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Like, what are we doing?
Guest:How did I get here?
Guest:What's going to happen?
Marc:Yeah, those are the questions the show's supposed to answer.
Marc:Why are the wine cups so small?
Marc:But I think it came out great.
Marc:But just in terms of, I don't know, it was different.
Guest:We shot, where was it, underneath Bond Street somewhere?
Guest:What?
Guest:The Scorching the Earth.
Guest:We did that, which is like one camera.
Guest:That was a great audience.
Marc:You shot that thing?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Where is that thing?
Guest:I have it on a hard drive somewhere.
Marc:You do?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What a miserable thing that was.
Marc:It was.
Marc:That was underneath the Bleecker Theater.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Mike Birbiglia was doing a show upstairs.
Guest:Yes, that's right.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Now I remember that.
Guest:And I was in this basement, dank.
Guest:I think you mentioned it five or six times.
Marc:Fucking Mike Birbiglia.
Marc:Yeah, he was upstairs doing a run of, not Sleepwalk with me, I think it was one of the other ones.
Marc:Highly successful.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I just remember taking it...
Marc:up to Montreal, and they let me do it on their side festival at a small theater, and it was rough, man.
Marc:I was in rough shape, but that guy came up.
Marc:God, what the fuck was his name?
Marc:He passed away, but he thought he was gonna be the producer, and we were gonna tour with it, and I'd never made an agreement with him.
Marc:It was all very awkward.
Guest:But did that ever get an official recording and release?
Guest:Nothing.
Marc:No, because I don't, in retrospect, think I had enough distance from the subject matter
Marc:I remember it being something I had to do because I thought that's what I do.
Guest:Yeah, it is what you do.
Guest:I'm going to work this stuff out on stage.
Guest:That's Ernest Becker's thing, right?
Guest:You took your pain and you turned it into art.
Marc:I guess, but it's also just sort of the nature of how I create the stand-up.
Marc:But it was just too raw, dude.
Marc:And my heartbreak was visceral.
Marc:It was.
Marc:And it was not like whatever...
Marc:Humor there was to it.
Marc:Well, yeah, I just remember they wrote about it in Time Out, which I didn't want.
Marc:And they were just sort of like, Mark doesn't seem to have any distance.
Marc:It seems like he's going through this right as we're watching it.
Marc:And I'm like, okay, take that, Gerard Carmichael.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:People are paying big money to see people have raw feelings.
Marc:Now?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Back then, not so much.
Marc:No?
Marc:No.
Guest:Why?
Marc:Because things are just so much more processed now?
Marc:No, I think there was this new move towards this sense of authenticity of living in public.
Marc:Dude, I was doing some pretty gnarly authenticity back in the day.
Marc:It was a hard sell.
Marc:It was a hard sell.
Guest:Did you ever get anywhere where you put out the joke about, because I think of this all the time, like...
Guest:You know, no amount of making pancakes can make up for, what the fuck, you fucking stupid.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Did that one ever get released?
Guest:Because every day, I think, as I'm making pancakes for the 22nd.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:No amount of pancakes can erase.
Guest:Shut the fuck up.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That's a classic.
Marc:I think it might have made it somewhere.
Marc:I don't know where it would be.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That's a keeper for whatever it's worth.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you related to that?
Guest:Oh, absolutely.
Guest:Do I tend to vocalize in a loud manner when upset?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah, I just stopped.
Marc:With Lynn, all that went away, and I became very conscious of it.
Marc:Thank God.
Marc:You know, and I, you know, I became very conscious of vocal.
Marc:Like I made sure that if I was vocalizing in a loud way, it was out, it was to the wall.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It wasn't like, you know, go fuck you.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Marc:Cause the tension needs to come out.
Marc:I just, I'm just yelling.
Marc:I'm not yelling at you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm just, that's a tough sell.
Marc:I'm going to, that's a good, I'm going to try that though.
Guest:What?
Guest:Just don't make it personal.
Guest:Just aim it somewhere else.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But see, this is the problem, and you learn this in therapy or just in life.
Guest:The gap between stimulus and response, you have to widen it.
Guest:So if you have even the pause to say, I should do this over there, already you almost have the choice to like, I'm just not going to do it.
Guest:Tightening the gap between fuck you and I'm sorry.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's the other side of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've got that down to a millisecond.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But it's better.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's really almost pointless unless you can stop it before it happens because the damage is sort of done.
Marc:Well, that's the truth is that it's all damaging and people will stop loving you.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you start with a full tank, and then the tank goes down.
Marc:I don't know, dude.
Marc:I'm old, and I'm scared, and I'm sad a lot.
Marc:Now we're getting to it.
Guest:I don't know what happens.
Guest:Listen, you've achieved your professional dreams.
Guest:You've...
Guest:suffered a very heavy loss with Lynn.
Guest:That is a devastating blow.
Guest:But you've got a super structure of people.
Guest:Yeah, I do.
Guest:Or is it all just like you're Charles Foster Kane in your mansion up on the hill?
Guest:Yeah, that's who I am.
Guest:Nobody's left who really knows you.
Marc:I'm building an opera house.
Marc:This is it.
Marc:First spot.
Marc:Yeah, for the woman I'm seeing who doesn't even sing, so I'm going to surprise her with it.
Marc:Yeah, you could be out there.
Marc:Are you listening to this?
Marc:It could be you.
Marc:No, I'm seeing somebody.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:No, no, it's not like that.
Marc:I have a network of people, but the existential thing, it gets heavy.
Marc:Loss and grief and reflecting on past and all that stuff, it's a little gnarly.
Marc:And then with the no water and the watching the plants die and the fascism, it's like...
Guest:i forgot about the fascism that doesn't help no it all gets hard to ignore it's a bit much dude and it's like and but you sit down you strum your guitar i do i get lost in the rock what do you do for uh for the good feelings i mean i do i try to watch a lot of movies i you know i try the hard ones but then i try the soft ones you know just the comfort food ones sure those do it for me yeah i'll square out some tears exactly yeah for the
Marc:Emotional ones, exactly.
Marc:I watched a Marvel movie the other day.
Marc:Wait, what?
Guest:Stop the presses.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Are we breaking news here?
Marc:I had to interview Simu Liu.
Guest:Oh, right, right.
Marc:So I had to watch the- So you watched that one?
Marc:The Ten Rings one.
Guest:Yeah, and?
Marc:Great, it was good.
Guest:I'm curious how that interview went.
Marc:I could listen to it.
Marc:Great, it was fine.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I'm gonna watch some more Marvel movies.
Guest:Well, I think this is some sort of- Do you watch him?
Marc:Oh, sure.
Marc:But see, but I- Did you watch the new Top Gun?
No.
Marc:That one, I- Brendan said it was great.
Guest:I bet it's great for what it is.
Guest:I just, that was not one that I wanted to- I think that Miles Teller is a movie star.
Marc:There must be something wrong with him that he's not a bigger movie star.
Marc:Or maybe his time is coming.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Should be a movie star.
Guest:But I was culturally programmed as a kid.
Guest:I don't know if you read Marvel Comics, but there's like a DNA signal I sent, where if it's like at the Hulk or Spider-Man, I'm like, oh, I'll watch it.
Guest:Nah.
Guest:Nah, I wasn't programmed on that one.
Guest:Yeah, see, so that's- I was really lucky that way.
Marc:For some reason, I got hold of the furry freak writers.
Marc:Which one?
Marc:Furry Freak Brothers and stuff.
Marc:Is it like crumb stuff?
Guest:Yeah, in that zone.
Marc:Yeah, somehow those are what came to me.
Guest:That's not surprising.
Marc:High times.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I've seen that stuff.
Marc:I wasn't nine.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like, I don't know.
Marc:I came up in the sort of crashing wave of the 60s, right?
Marc:So...
Marc:I'm six years old and 69.
Marc:So Mad Magazine's really where I was.
Marc:I see.
Marc:I wasn't comics.
Guest:You didn't have superhero fantasies.
Guest:No.
Guest:None of that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that explains it.
Guest:My point is if I could choose to maybe not be so inclined to regress to a 14-year-old every time a new Marvel movie comes out, I think I would.
Guest:But I've stopped resisting it because it's there.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know.
Marc:I don't make it out as much as... A lot of things are getting by me now.
Guest:Well, I didn't go anywhere for, I don't know, a year and a half.
Guest:Like, literally seeing that reading at Paris.
Guest:No one did, though.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:No one went anywhere.
Marc:I know.
Marc:But, I mean, I'm just saying, in general, things get by me.
Marc:There's a lot happening.
Marc:Always.
Guest:Oh, well, that's... Look, I have a list of all the movies that when I say, Hi, I'm Matthew, the film guy, they go, Well, have you seen X?
Guest:And I go, No.
Guest:And they go, What?
Marc:You haven't seen Y.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:I write that list.
Marc:Where's that even on?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:It's a huge list.
Guest:But at home with my nice TV and stereo, I don't need to go to the theater.
Guest:How big is a TV?
Guest:14 feet?
Guest:Well, how small is the apartment?
Guest:That's the first ring.
Guest:So it's a 50-inch TV, but I'm sitting, I don't know, five feet away.
Guest:Close?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:As long as it's filling my peripheral vision, I'm in a big screen.
Guest:But I'm just so, yeah.
Guest:But I have, oh my God, I don't want to tell you how many.
Guest:You've missed it.
Marc:Yeah, I missed them all.
Marc:All right, we'll get to them.
Guest:yeah so I think we did it you feel good about it I mean what I just want to I just want to I just want to say thank you Mark yeah this has been nice yeah where the wild things are give or take but I people should come to me yeah can I put out a call if anyone ever even hears this yeah
Guest:I teach an online film appreciation class where we do it on Zoom, and people come in.
Guest:It started out as senior citizens, but now it's open to everyone around the world, and you should come.
Guest:I think you would enjoy it.
Guest:I think you would add to it.
Marc:How do I get there?
Guest:You can go to my Twitter, and you can see the link.
Guest:It's through the- At Langdon Boom.
Guest:Yeah, Langdon Boom.
Guest:L-A-N-D-G-O-N.
Guest:L-A-N-G-D-O-N-B-O-O-M as in Mary.
Guest:I'm also on Letterboxd at that.
Guest:But anyway, I show like the hard movies.
Guest:I show like the ones that are befuddling, the weird ones.
Guest:Like what?
Guest:Like Red Desert?
Guest:I mean, I'd even consider that in the starter kit of the befuddling movies.
Guest:That's a befuddling one.
Guest:That's a good one.
Guest:But, I mean, we were showing things like...
Guest:uh song of india marguerite duras where like the people don't even talk it's like a voiceover do you do saint joan uh haven't done that one but that that could be a good one also hong sang su is a korean director who i'm huge on these days he makes these like time travel you would love him actually i'll watch it he's made like 26 movies in the past 20 years that are all basically the same theme and form
Guest:But the movies, you have to have a group discussion over.
Marc:But how far back do you go?
Marc:Do you do Boonwell?
Guest:Yeah, we've done some Boonwell.
Guest:I've gone back to a silent movie.
Guest:We watched Vampyr, the Carl Dreyer movie.
Guest:So we go all over.
Guest:I think Carl Dreyer did St.
Guest:Joan, too, right?
Guest:Well, no, he did...
Guest:Joan of Arc.
Guest:Joan of Arc.
Guest:That's what I'm thinking.
Guest:Oh, yeah, that one.
Guest:Yeah, no, I didn't show that one.
Guest:I'll say the side theme is that I show movies that I haven't seen that are on that list.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I get a chance to actually watch these movies because, like you said, you need, like, an event to go and do it.
Guest:So anyway, you should come out to that.
Marc:Do you do modern, impenetrable movies?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, we just did the latest Joanna Hogg.
Guest:You know her from England?
Guest:No.
Guest:I wouldn't say she's impenetrable, but, well.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The movie.
Guest:The movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's you know she's making art movies in a sort of modern context.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:You know but we show everything you know it's it's the it's the film club.
Marc:Do you do what's the guy's name the the the guy who did the lobster.
Marc:You know what?
Guest:I watched the first one of that, and I was really turned off, so I haven't gone further with that.
Marc:What's his name again?
Marc:I interviewed him.
Marc:Yorgos Lanthimos.
Marc:Yeah, Yorgos Lanthimos.
Marc:I like talking to that guy.
Marc:Go watch his early movies.
Guest:Figure that shit out.
Guest:I watched the first one, Dogtooth, and I kind of felt like I was being punked.
Guest:I didn't feel like a rapport with the director.
Guest:It sounds pretty impenetrable.
Guest:I mean, I think I was penetrated by it, actually.
Guest:It was a little bit of a different dynamic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I don't know.
Guest:We saw a lot of like indie films like, you know, wait, hang on.
Guest:Pause this.
Guest:Pause the recording.
Guest:I know this is gripping.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:Brendan, edit this part out.
Guest:Don't listen to him.
Guest:This is who he is.
Guest:I'm making the whole world wait now.
Guest:Just wait.
Guest:It's worth it what I'm going to say.
Guest:I've got something important to share.
Guest:Sam would fill this time.
Guest:Uh, uh, uh, uh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We're both film fans.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:We show... Are you looking at your... Yeah.
Guest:Have you seen... Oh, have you seen The Plot Against Harry?
Guest:What is that?
Guest:It's a 60s independent film about a Jewish gangster shot on the Lower East Side at the time with tons of Jew-y stuff.
Guest:I haven't seen it.
Guest:I think you would love that.
Guest:If you had come to my class, you would have seen it.
Guest:Okay.
Okay.
Guest:Yeah, that's about right on that note.
Guest:But it's cool.
Guest:You can also go to my letterbox and see the movies we've seen if you're curious about the sort of style.
Guest:So this is your thing.
Guest:How many people come in on the Zoom?
Guest:About 20.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:You know, 15 to 20.
Guest:That's global.
Guest:Yeah, global reach.
Guest:Well, I've got to cap it.
Guest:You know, I've got to cap it.
Guest:So I can't reach everybody all at once.
Guest:But apart from doing the editing, yeah, that's the other thing I do.
Guest:All right.
Marc:Are you going to write a book?
Marc:Why don't you write a book?
Marc:About this?
Marc:About our experience together?
Marc:No, about impenetrable movies.
Guest:I mean, I don't think I'm that good.
Guest:You're not the same.
Guest:You're not the same.
Guest:I'm older and wiser.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I've learned, like you, to accept my limitations.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I would much rather read the books than struggle to write the books.
Marc:Oh, God.
Marc:Writing books is the fucking worst.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I could and I maybe should on some sort of personal level.
Guest:It's a terrible fucking... It's like having an incomplete in college.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Like, it's just sitting there saying, what the fuck?
Guest:Why aren't you writing me?
Guest:Well, I heard your interview with... We can wrap it up.
Guest:But I heard your interview with A.O.
Guest:Scott.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that was, I thought, really great because he talked about all the books you're supposed to read.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And all that stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You cop to that, too.
Guest:I have all those.
Guest:Those are all on my shelf.
Marc:Completely unread.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I have a hard time with them.
Marc:I just there's always this idea that as I get older, I'll understand things I didn't understand when I was younger.
Marc:And the truth of the matter is some of them are not understandable because you don't you have to you've got to put the groundwork into whatever you need guidance or technical language.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's a technical language to fucking philosophy.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:To fucking aesthetic cultural criticism.
Marc:It's like, Jesus, fuck.
Marc:I can't get through Benjamin.
Marc:I can't get through a Northrop Frye.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I can barely get through Mike Davis.
Guest:Have you tried some Adorno?
Guest:That's one I feel like I've- That's your guy?
Guest:Yeah, I'd be simpatico with him.
Guest:How am I going to penetrate Adorno?
Guest:Yeah, no.
Guest:He's impenetrable.
Guest:Even amongst the esthetes, I think he's impenetrable.
Guest:That's his reputation.
Guest:But he said some things that influenced other people.
Marc:I want these things to answer all the questions.
Marc:I'm not even sure they do that if you know the language.
Marc:That's the thing.
Marc:I think part of the reason you've got to know the language is because-
Marc:It's a little bullshitty.
Guest:Well, there is a, you know, like a drawbridge that they try to pull up, you know, that only the experts can come in the circle.
Guest:I get that.
Guest:But I don't, I'm not in a position to even say that.
Marc:Like I buy books from, you know, like with the last one I bought was about, you know, had a complicated title that might like necro colonialism, you know, something, I don't know.
Marc:Well, fuck that.
Marc:No, it's clearly a bad thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm with you.
Marc:Both of those things are bad, but whatever.
Guest:I hate Necro and I hate.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Whatever the 200 pages after that book cover.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:I just choose to believe.
Guest:Look, I try to have some mental stimulation.
Guest:I try to push myself.
Guest:I have a good time.
Marc:You want me to give you Harvey Fierstein's new book?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I have it on the floor here.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Or you can have Jerry Stahl's new book about touring.
Marc:That sounds like it might be more fun.
Marc:Jerry Stahl's?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Depends what you think fun is.
Guest:Heroin and near-death experience.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:This is about him sort of like being self-absorbed while he tours concentration camps.
Guest:Oh, yes.
Guest:That sounds perfect.
Marc:That sounds like necro-colonialism.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But Harvey Fierstein, you'd be surprised at what he was involved with in New York City in the 60s in terms of theater and film and Warhol and La Mama.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:He was there for all of it.
Marc:For all of it.
Guest:At the beginning, dude.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:It's kind of great.
Guest:See, and this is just saying your point.
Guest:There's so much shit out there that's so interesting.
Guest:Well, I talked to him.
Marc:It was beautiful.
Marc:But I'll give you both of those books if you're going to read them.
Marc:Thanks.
Marc:Are you going to read them?
Marc:Oh, shit.
Marc:Here comes that book report.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'll give you Jerry's then because I just want someone to really enjoy Harvey's.
Marc:You care about Harvey's?
Guest:No.
Guest:After you gave me the little spiel about his zealot-like nature.
Guest:Do you want to learn about New York?
Marc:I don't know if he's zealot-like.
Guest:I always want to learn about New York.
Marc:It's a fucking New York book.
Marc:I love New York.
Marc:Fine.
Marc:I should put that on a t-shirt.
Marc:I'll give you it.
Guest:Bye.
Guest:Thanks, Mark.
Bye.