BONUS Archive Deep Dive: Episode 161 - Joe Rogan
Marc:okay i'm ready i'm rolling you're ready you're rolling are you ready to talk about this yeah i think i could talk about it i just don't uh you know my recollection of it is minimal but i think i can recall feelings but i don't know that i can recall the conversation
Guest:Well, let's tell everybody what we're talking about here.
Guest:We're going to do another archive deep dive.
Guest:And this is one we get asked about a lot, I think, because a lot of people don't know it exists.
Guest:They say, when are you going to do an episode with Joe Rogan?
Guest:And you say, I've had him on.
Guest:And you have.
Guest:It was episode 161.
Guest:And that is from March 2011.
Guest:So we're talking about over 11 years now.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, he was on early on and I've been on his show once.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's been on my show once.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, it's all part of the timeline, which is interesting about this, about when he was on your show and then when you were on his show and then a bunch of shit happened in between that.
Guest:Like that was surprising to me going back and revisiting this.
Guest:You know, I think, you know, we brought Joe up the last time we were talking and I think it was specifically about like,
Guest:You know, the sense of what comedy is today.
Guest:And this was in relation to your Stuart Lee talk.
Guest:And, you know, our general sense that like each of us, you and I have about what Joe is like doing these days.
Guest:What's his motive?
Guest:What is he doing?
Guest:What's he doing down there in Austin?
Guest:What's his...
Guest:you know, consolidation of power and the sway he has in the culture.
Guest:And it was really, really interesting to listen.
Guest:I went back and listened to this whole episode of you and Joe from 2011.
Guest:And first off, you guys acknowledge at the beginning of the podcast that it's really the first time you guys ever had a conversation.
Guest:Like you knew each other and you talked to each other, but that was the first time you ever sat down and had a conversation was that podcast.
Marc:Yeah, years before, I can't even remember when, I had sort of, and this is, I mean, part of it is resentment, part of it is just being argumentative, but I had tried to make this case publicly somewhere, I can't remember.
Marc:that, you know, when he was, everyone was all lit up about Mencia stealing a hack joke, you know, and this being some broader indicator of, you know, the most dangerous thing in comedy.
Marc:And I tried to make this sort of
Marc:arcing argument that, you know, Joe hosting Fear Factor and ushering in reality television probably in the bigger picture put more comedy writers out of business than Mencia's crime against comedy in that, you know, once networks realized they didn't have to, you know, pay people to generate comedy, why would they?
Guest:Yeah, you know what's so funny about that is that you brought that up to him in the interview.
Guest:I did.
Guest:And I don't think he gave a shit.
Guest:Like, you know, he defended himself and said like, I'm just doing a stupid show and I made fun of it while I was doing it.
Guest:And who cares?
Guest:You know, you want to come home on the couch and watch, you know, a guy eat a dick as a dare?
Guest:Then fine.
Guest:What's wrong with that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:People watch dumb sitcoms, too.
Guest:Like, you know, he had his defense ready.
Guest:That was clearly it was a thing you had constructed of him that was in your craw that had to do with integrity and.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And and and a general sense that he was not doing comedy in any way that put him on a level like.
Guest:He shouldn't have been the comedy police, which was what he was doing with in the situation that a lot of people probably don't know now with Carlos Mencia.
Guest:It's, you know, over a decade.
Guest:I think it might even be 15 years.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But there's so much so many other levels to it.
Marc:But that's right.
Marc:It is about integrity.
Marc:And this is a guy who, you know, claims the mantle of Hicks.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And that was his big thing.
Marc:And it's just sort of like, I don't know that you get to do that, but you have double standards and the standards and the ideas of selling out.
Marc:And when somebody's personally detached, does that make it okay?
Guest:But what was interesting was that he took the issue not with you saying it had something to do about integrity, but that when you had Carlos on your show, that you put them on an equal level.
Guest:You said it was two bullies being assholes to each other.
Guest:And that infuriated him like he was pissed and he wouldn't do the show.
Guest:I don't know if you remember this.
Guest:So so we had you had Carlos Mencia on in the spring of 2010.
Guest:I had to do it twice.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You had him on for the first time in the spring 2010.
Guest:I think it was around May.
Guest:And this was largely just to interview him.
Guest:I think your general sense of Carlos Mencia was like, whatever your opinion of him is, he's a comic.
Guest:He did his HBO half hour the same day I did my HBO half hour.
Guest:And you know, that's a guy who paid his dues.
Guest:And if he stole jokes, we can talk about it.
Guest:So you talked about it with him and you left with a real fishy feeling.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you spoke to- And then talked to Madrigal.
Guest:You talked to Al Madrigal, and then you spoke on the mic to two guys who had worked with him, Willie Barsena and Steve Trevino.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And we aired that, and then aired Carlos coming on and responding to that in an episode where he just largely hung himself-
Guest:the whole time, basically saying like the, you know, you don't even know the bad things I could have done to those people.
Guest:And I stopped people from doing to them.
Guest:And like, as though we were supposed to applaud that or whatever, but it was, it was a real case.
Marc:I didn't have anybody hurt.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was a real case of letting someone kind of hang themselves with their own words.
Guest:So that happens.
Guest:And you, I guess you figured like, I might as well reach out to Joe Rogan, see if he wants to come on.
Guest:And he refused.
Guest:He wouldn't do it.
Marc:It wouldn't do it for over a year.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, and then we had another problem with my TV show when I tried to cast him on that.
Guest:Yeah, that comes later.
Guest:We'll loop back to that after we go through this episode and talk about it.
Guest:And I think it's very interesting that when, so I don't remember, I have no recollection of how you guys like reconciled this.
Guest:Maybe just with seeing each other at the store or something, or I don't know.
Guest:Did you, do you remember booking him?
Guest:Do you remember how that happened?
Guest:I was removed from the process of booking back then.
Guest:So I don't know.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know either.
Marc:I imagine it was because as podcasting started to kind of grow up at that time, everybody was doing everybody's shows.
Marc:We were part of the community.
Marc:I did see him at the store.
Marc:I'm sure I tried to reach out again and just sort of like, well, just come on.
Marc:Let's just do it.
Marc:You know, and we actually go way back.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, you guys talk about that right away.
Guest:And he brings up almost immediately that the first time you met him, you complimented him.
Guest:And or maybe not have been the first time you met, but it was during his start.
Guest:He was a young comic and you gave him a compliment that I don't even think you remembered when he was telling you this.
Guest:But it stuck with him.
Guest:And he wanted to like he needs to let you know in this talk that he's like, that's the reason why I've always been nice to you.
Guest:Like, I think it was very hurtful to him that he wasn't getting that, you know, in this post fear factor age that he was in, he was not getting your respect.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because he felt like.
Guest:This guy said something nice about me once.
Guest:Why is he saying I've changed or I've been and now he's giving me shit.
Guest:And he keeps trying to say to you things like you bring something up and you're like, oh, that sounds nice.
Guest:And he's like, yeah, I'm a nice guy.
Guest:Like he's trying to kind of convince you that he's not this image you had of him.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, you know, I in retrospect.
Marc:Joe as a person at that time, and I have to acknowledge that I did have a weird beef with the fact that I did see him as a bully.
Marc:I did see him as a guy that took up a lot of space and sort of indulged in enjoying having power.
Marc:I did see him as a guy who sort of took over the comedy store with his ego.
Marc:And I didn't see any justice in it.
Marc:So, you know, whether he was nice or not, or whether he wants all the comics to like him, I don't know.
Marc:You know, somebody running around claiming the mantle of Hicks, you know, to me, it's like, you know, that's a lot.
Marc:That's a lot.
Marc:And also just this sort of like, you know, this jockey kind of like...
Marc:coming around the side to your standup success or to building your following through all these different means, one of them being as an announcer on the UFC fights and also on Fear Factor, that it's just the whole thing seemed to lack integrity.
Marc:And for him to be a comedy police.
Marc:And I heard lately, you know, I don't know, somebody took a shot at me on that show.
Marc:And, you know, I'm no comedy cop.
Marc:And, you know, I have my ideas about things, but I just I didn't see how this guy, you know, was was able to to claim the position in stand up that, you know, he thought he earned.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's not like he didn't do stand up forever.
Marc:You know, I know that he did.
Marc:I know that he's a real stand up.
Marc:You know, it just it just seemed like there wasn't it.
Marc:Maybe it was the death of integrity, really, that we're talking about.
Guest:Well, what's really interesting is that, you know, let's say it began and ended there with Joe Rogan.
Guest:Let's equate him to like Jerry Seinfeld.
Right.
Guest:A guy who you had opinions about, he probably has opinions about you, pre-existing opinions.
Guest:And then when you guys talked, the two sides of your kind of comedy mindsets collided.
Guest:It was very clear where there was dissonance, but you guys were also able to have a conversation.
Guest:I think it was fairly revealing who Jerry was and is.
Guest:And you could walk away from that the way you walk away from most episodes of this show that are good, that get to the core of a person and their personality traits and say, oh, I get why this happened.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I also knew that Jerry has no respect for me at all and didn't after the episode.
Marc:As a comedian.
Guest:But sure.
Guest:So that might mean like, okay, so this conversation is not going to happen again.
Guest:But still, it was that one hour isolated thing.
Marc:But I don't get to go in the car.
Marc:I don't get to go in the car, Brendan.
Guest:You'll never get coffee ever in your life.
Guest:Yeah, that's out for you.
Guest:The thing with this Joe talk though, is like if you had the same thing, if it was just this one time, like he's a passing through comic, you're not gonna interact with him again, it's the same deal.
Guest:Like you can listen to this episode and hear exactly what it is.
Guest:It's everything you're saying right now, this like idea of like you feeling a little bit defensive and protective about comedy in general from somebody of Joe's personality type.
Guest:But it's also so clear he's very quick to get personal and be revealing about his childhood and his life with, I don't know how much he talks about this in public.
Guest:Maybe he talks about it all the time, but some really nasty stuff about his father and how abusive he was to beating his mother.
Guest:And the guy just sounded like a really terrible poisonous influence in life.
Guest:And
Guest:It's so clear that Joe is that controlling personality type that you almost always bump up against.
Guest:When you kind of notice in a person, whether it's because they are staunchly against drugs, alcohol, and always have been in their life, or...
Guest:Or they have some type of controlling mechanism that they rely on all the time.
Guest:Your instinct is always to try to poke at them.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I know.
Marc:It's dangerous.
Guest:Well, I mean, I think that that's just what it was at the time.
Guest:And you kind of ID'd that with him.
Guest:You were like, weren't you kind of down on people who were like...
Guest:you know, had messy lives or whatever.
Guest:And he says, no, not really, or whatever.
Guest:But then it becomes clear, like, yeah, he was.
Guest:He was like, if you don't have the ability to control yourself and not do drugs and not drink, like, that's a problem.
Guest:You're not, like, a full person.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, but it's like, but on some level, that goes back to, you know, where I come from, which is, you know, it's a fundamental problem with authority or with people, you know, telling me anything, you know, that's where I come from, whether it's reactive or, you know, whether or not I can defend myself in the face of everything.
Marc:somebody about to kick my ass, it doesn't matter.
Marc:That's how I am.
Marc:If I find somebody trying to manipulate me or control me or holding a line about something that I think is bullshit, I'm going to react to that.
Marc:But I think that Joe sees himself also as a champion of comedy, and I'm not saying he's not.
Guest:Well, and also the fact that I think he now thinks that he has...
Guest:been the gateway for a lot of people into comedy and is almost like whatever you're saying before about him saying he carried the mantle of Hicks like that's all gone that's in his past like I think he now is like I'm the mantle of me and people need to come to me to get my blessing to be a comedian yeah yeah yeah he's a star maker
Marc:I get it, but all that shit, of course I'm going to react against that.
Marc:And it's not jealousy.
Marc:I don't want what that guy has.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:What I feel is that it's the control thing again.
Marc:I'm reacting emotionally against the fact that the bullies win and that most of the time comedians are sort of pushovers and they're going to do whatever's necessary
Marc:It's like what you see with guys around Trump.
Marc:You're going to have all these kind of guys who live in your ass to sort of be on the take, to sort of be part of what's happening.
Marc:But it's not politics, really, though it's becoming that.
Marc:But and I also think it's opportunistic and I get it.
Marc:You know, it's not I don't think those guys don't like him.
Marc:I don't I think he's a likable guy to a lot of people, obviously.
Marc:But it's funny, too, that you say it's not politics, although it's becoming that.
Guest:But it's only becoming that we talked about this a little bit the last time when we talked about Stuart Lee.
Guest:It's like.
Guest:Joe has no coherent politics.
Guest:And I would think he would admit that to you.
Guest:It would say like, well, I'm not, I don't know what I am politically.
Guest:He's just a reactive dude.
Guest:He's going to react to things.
Guest:And he's going to also, because of that control thing, whatever type of, whatever worldview he's built for himself, which involves a lot of like self-help, personal health,
Guest:support, do these things to keep yourself younger, fight the age.
Marc:Sounds hilarious.
Guest:All of that stuff, though, that is like his worldview.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's how he filters his politics.
Guest:And there's this moment in this talk you had with him in this episode, 2011, episode 161.
Guest:that he's saying to you like he's make some analogy about snake venom that like how he has a thicker skin and he's not so susceptible to criticism anymore and people are trolling him which is probably bullshit but he was claiming I've gotten over a lot of that I don't mind Twitter people and he's saying it because he like exposed himself to it and he says to you you know it's like it's like snake venom right like
Guest:If a rattlesnake bites you for the first time and injects you with the poison, you're toast.
Guest:That's bad.
Guest:Rattlesnake poison can kill you.
Guest:But if you take a little bit of the poison over time, you'll build up an immunity to it, and then you'll be able to withstand it if you do get a full-on rattlesnake bite.
Guest:Well...
Guest:I just took a look into that for my own sake.
Guest:There is nothing supporting that scientifically.
Guest:In fact, it's one of those highly, highly controversial claims that every now and then there's some doctor somewhere that's like, I've cured myself of venom.
Guest:I can take any rattlesnake bite anywhere.
Guest:And the scientific community comes out and is like, yeah, yeah, we don't subscribe to that.
Guest:Please don't give yourself rattlesnake bites.
Marc:But interestingly, it is the exact way vaccines work.
Guest:Well, sure.
Guest:But that's what my point is, like, he develops these theories around things and then just builds his life out around that and goes like, yeah, that makes sense to me.
Guest:Why not?
Guest:And I think that's what most people do.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I don't think that's, I think that's probably why people relate to him and listen to the show and become part of his community.
Guest:They're like, he thinks the way I think.
Guest:That one thing makes sense.
Guest:And now it all makes sense to me.
Marc:Sure, sure.
Marc:But, you know, it's never been and will never be.
Marc:the kind of people I hang out with.
Marc:And historically, it's like, I've said this about other people.
Marc:Historically, Joe and I have been fighting for centuries.
Marc:So that's just the way it is.
Marc:And it's like, it's one-sided.
Marc:I don't think he gives a fuck one way or another about me.
Marc:But still for me, it's still really just personal.
Marc:It's really not about the scope of him.
Marc:Though I do believe that what he's creating
Marc:in terms of legitimizing behavior and ways of thinking, and I'll just keep it just around comedy, I think it's kind of shitty.
Marc:You know, I think, you know, that he... I don't think he embraces all things comedy.
Marc:I don't think, you know, he's definitely not... He definitely thinks there is a right and wrong about it, I believe.
Marc:You know, I don't know that I think that.
Marc:I think that there are things that, you know, I...
Marc:I don't agree with, but like I'm watching there, I don't think that there's a wrong way to do comedy.
Marc:I just think, you know, there are questions one has to ask, but, um, I get the feeling that there's, there are lines being drawn and I think he's partially responsible for that.
Guest:Well, it's interesting that you say that you guys have been fighting for centuries and through the beginning of time and whatever, probably your types will, will be at odds for a long time.
Um,
Guest:The takeaway I had, when I went back to listen to this, I tried to imagine in my head when I thought it was because of kind of friction that you'd had with him.
Guest:And I was surprised that it was way earlier than other kind of public spats you've had.
Guest:So you went through this interview, you had this kind of tête-à-tête with him, and you kind of left...
Guest:I wouldn't say you had a totally different opinion of him, but I think you both kind of had an understanding of who the other person was.
Guest:And yet it was still like within the same year.
Guest:I remember what started it was Anthony Bourdain, actually.
Guest:Do you remember this?
Guest:sure yeah come on to my show if you want to have a real conversation or something yeah he he had him on it was like september of that same year 2011 and yeah you tweeted something at anthony bourdain like hey yeah come on to my conversation my show to have a real conversation it'll be deep yeah yeah yeah and then and then he got pissed yeah and
Guest:I think he started taking shots at your draw.
Guest:Like that was his, like that, you know, his stance that happens like out of a sense of like going into combat with people was like, okay, Marin said that that was shitty to me.
Guest:So how do I hurt him?
Guest:And so he started on his show saying like,
Guest:oh yeah, I heard he can't draw anybody at the Irvine Improv or some shit like that.
Guest:Like it was direct attack on your draw.
Marc:Yeah, well, no, that was true.
Marc:But like, see, like I don't really register to that as I get older.
Marc:I don't really respond to that in the sense of like, I don't need a huge draw.
Marc:I don't understand always why I'm not more popular, but I'm not looking to amass an army.
Marc:You know, I know I'm specific at this point in time.
Marc:You know, I don't, you know, it's obviously it's still, you know,
Marc:I have a fine draw now, but yeah, well, that's the way you go.
Marc:You know, it's like, but that's the question.
Marc:Does that indicate that I'm a bad comic?
Marc:Do you know, like, see that there's something to him that he judges that, right?
Guest:And he thinks that's a, that's a thing you should be embarrassed.
Marc:Well, that's the core of his problem with my problem with him really is like, you know, Hicks couldn't draw anybody, you know, Hicks kind of, you know, did all right in England, but you know, by the time, you know, he died too young and it was like, he alienated almost everybody.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, in terms of crowds, he used to take pride in it, you know, and you weren't going to judge him differently.
Marc:And I'm not comparing myself to Hicks, but this idea that winning or that being good is about money or about draw is just odd to me because some of the my favorite comics of all time.
Marc:Or my peers, it's not because they have huge draws.
Marc:Who the fuck wants to watch somebody in an arena?
Marc:You know, I get the spectacle of it, but are we talking about comedy?
Marc:So, you know, the sort of nuance of somebody who is either tormented or not for everybody or sort of, you know, totally to the beat of their own drummer.
Marc:I mean, to me, those are the more interesting people, this idea...
Marc:This massive appeal business, even if it's to a specific type of person, does not indicate that somebody's a good comic.
Marc:It just indicates that they have a draw.
Guest:Well, I think you guys hugged it out at the store or something.
Guest:You kind of decided that you guys were going to stop taking shots at each other.
Guest:And it was all quiet on the Western Front.
Guest:You went on his show.
Guest:It was July 2013.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:um almost two years later yeah he wanted to hear he just wanted to hear the drug stories oh yeah for some reason he was very impressed with the idea that i did a lot of blow at sam kennison like he really that's interesting considering the previous stance of like not tolerating people who had drug addiction problems no but he wanted to hear sam stories i think you know it's a it's a it's a favorite story but
Guest:Then I guess we should also mention that at some point here, it really wasn't a knock on you.
Guest:You guys, you and your writing team wrote a show, an episode of Marin for IFC that involved Joe.
Guest:In fact, the title of the script was The Joe Rogan Experience.
Guest:And he was supposed to play himself.
Guest:He had agreed to play himself.
Guest:Red Band had agreed to come on as like his sidekick.
Guest:And then I think he saw the script and he bailed, which was interesting because you then changed the script to CM Punk and Colt Cabana, the wrestlers.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it didn't change much.
Guest:So it's interesting that he had such a problem with how he was portrayed in it, where, you know, I remember him saying like,
Guest:This makes me look like a bully.
Guest:It didn't, really.
Marc:We took everything in that script from things he actually said.
Marc:It was a guy who was kind of spinning the yarns.
Marc:There was a little bit of conspiracy in there, a little bit of aliens, the stuff that Joe talks about or did at that time.
Marc:But we literally almost took all of it verbatim.
Marc:And he said, this makes me look like a clown.
Marc:And I'm like, you said all of that.
Yeah.
Guest:Well, then he also had some issue with it being Dennis Leary, his production company.
Marc:I think that was an afterthought.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because Dennis stole Hicks's act and people respond to that in a certain way.
Guest:And, you know, so that you think that was a justification for him feeling insecure about the part as it was written.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:That makes sense.
Marc:Not insecure, just angry.
Marc:Or, you know, he didn't have control over that.
Marc:But it was based on exactly on things he said.
Marc:And I felt like, you know, because Dennis Leary, I didn't deal with Dennis Leary.
Marc:Dennis Leary, you know, it was just a production company.
Guest:Well, I don't know if, you know, you guys are ever going to be on each other's shows again.
Guest:Probably not.
Guest:And probably, I don't think we want him on this show, frankly.
Marc:I just don't know what to, you know, what would happen.
Marc:Like, I think about it sometimes.
Marc:Like, what would happen?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:If I went on Joe's show, what would we talk about?
Marc:Like, you know, like me taking shots at him again.
Marc:It doesn't matter to him at this point.
Marc:And, you know, he's fair game.
Marc:You know, you can't, you know, you can't be as big as he is and not, you know, be culturally fair game.
Marc:But I had this problem with Adam Sandler, too.
Marc:Similar problem, really.
Guest:Right.
Marc:That, you know, years ago when, you know, Adam was, you know, pretty huge, I made fun of his...
Marc:fans really i made fun of i made a reference to his fans uh in a bit that i did you know uh you know characterizing them as sort of infantilized man children and you know he took it as a slag and i think this was something you out of doing on conan yeah but i mean it was a joke i was doing but it's like you know this idea that
Marc:We're not allowed to react or respond to each other's work once somebody becomes in the stratosphere and is somebody who has some cultural traction.
Marc:It's just crazy.
Marc:There's no kind of bro code to that shit.
Marc:I guess there is for the most part, but I don't know.
Marc:It just seems like fair game.
Marc:But that's why people think I'm a dick or used to think I'm a dick.
Marc:I just do that shit.
Marc:I don't...
Marc:It just feels like fair game to me somehow.
Marc:And also it's, you know, why not?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, it fueled a very many, a very great number of episodes of the early days of this podcast, frankly.
Guest:People who are listening to this can listen to not only the Joe Rogan one, but probably several dozen of the episodes in those early years of the show were based on you saying like, yeah, I probably offended you because this is what I thought at the time.
Guest:And I was
Guest:public about that, and I've said this.
Marc:Yeah, but I feel with Adam, that was a different time, but I think he probably still... I feel like he still holds it against me.
Marc:I don't think that... I don't think he ever reconciled that.
Marc:Not that it takes up much space in his head, but I think when I come up, he's not like...
Marc:He's not going to jump to the, you know, the opportunity to talk to me on my show or hang out.
Marc:He's always nice to me, but I know it's stuck in his craw.
Marc:And I know that the same thing happens to me with certain people.
Guest:Yeah, we've talked about it, you and I. There's just some people you can't get around it.
Marc:And I think I'm that person, you know, in a very small way to a couple of people.
Marc:But, I mean, I guess that's the price.
Marc:That's the risk you run.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:Like I'm going into a special now with jokes that are going to be critical of peers.
Marc:And it's not jealousy.
Marc:I don't feel like it's jealousy.
Marc:I feel like there has to be a response to some things culturally.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:There was a period there where Adam Sandler's movies invented a new type of man.
Marc:And there was an annoying type of man.
Marc:You know, like it was right around the beginning of the backward baseball caps and the kind of like goofy man children bullshit.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:It was kind of pre, you know, comic book nerd culture, but it was definitely a thing.
Marc:Am I wrong?
Guest:Well, no, it was a thing.
Guest:It was it probably had more cultural relevance in your mind, you know, because of comedy.
Guest:Then I think like, you know, there were plenty of people that were like Adam Sandler movies.
Guest:That's the lowest common denominator garbage, you know, like adults.
Guest:But I think I understand why you would have viewed it that way at the time.
Marc:He represented the type of dude that I thought, you know, deserved a reaction.
Marc:And it's the exact same thing with Joe.
Marc:But I don't know what kind of dude that makes me.
Marc:But, you know, a solitary one.
Guest:Yeah, well, or one who I think just always in general is going to have a problem with people with with a kind of authority or groupthink that you, you know, just find on the surface unpalatable.
Marc:Yeah, that's a nice way to put it.
Guest:Well, good.
Guest:At least we came around on there for you.
Marc:I don't know if I feel like, look, you know, it's one of those things where when you poke at a bear enough and then the bear finally says, what do you want?
Marc:There's part of you that's sort of like, what do you mean?
Marc:Nothing.
Marc:You all right?
Marc:So I'm sorry.
Marc:You okay?
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, why are you really poking a bear?
Marc:Is it on principle or is it just get attention from the bear?
Marc:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then there is some part of you that thinks the bear should understand.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What's that joke?
Marc:You're not here to hunt, are you?
Guest:Wait, what is it?
Guest:I don't know it.
Marc:Oh, God.
Marc:It's just about the guy that keeps going out to hunt the bear and the bear just keeps, like, you know, taking his gun away and fucking him.
Yeah.
Marc:You know, at some point, I can't remember exactly how it goes.
Guest:Oh, and he keeps coming back?
Guest:Yeah, to kill the bear.
Guest:And like after the third or fourth time, the bear goes, you're not here to hunt.
Guest:I can't remember.
Guest:I mean, that's good enough.
Guest:Whatever you just said, I got the full thing.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Well, we can wrap this up here then.
Guest:And anyone who wants to listen to that episode, it's in your full Marin WTF plus feed episode 161 from March of 2011.
Guest:Mark and Joe Rogan in the early podcast days.
Marc:I got to listen to it.