BONUS Wrestling With Marc - The Main Event
Marc:Folks, this is the fifth and final part of Wrestling with Mark.
Marc:For those of you who came on board because you like wrestling, stick around until the end of the episode and we'll have some fun news for you.
Marc:This final episode features the interviews we recorded on January 11th at the AEW Dynamite Show in Los Angeles.
Marc:And then after that...
Marc:Me and Brendan recorded a wrap-up on the following day.
Marc:But before we get to that, we ran into some people backstage at the show.
Marc:We had a few minutes to catch up with Colt Cabana, who was a guest on WTF back on episode 334.
Marc:And he was also on my IFC show, Marin, which you can get on iTunes or Amazon Prime.
Marc:Colt now works for AEW, and we saw each other in catering, which was quite the place to hang out, catering at the AEW show.
Guest:We good?
Marc:Check, check.
Marc:Cool.
Marc:You talk.
Guest:Hey, man.
Guest:One, two.
Guest:One, two.
Marc:Colt Cabana.
Marc:Yeah, good.
Marc:Hey, Colt Cabana.
Marc:Unreal.
Marc:I mean, jeez, how long has it been since I talked to you?
Guest:This is like the update.
Guest:This is what everybody wanted.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, it's been years.
Marc:When did I talk to Colt, man?
Guest:2002.
Guest:2012, 2013?
Guest:If I was to guess, it was 2013.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we're keeping the streak alive of never being to the garage.
Guest:Because it was in like an Evanston Hotel, do you remember?
Marc:That's right, dude.
Marc:When I was playing that little theater.
Marc:What, the main stage?
Marc:Main stage, which I don't think is a theater anymore.
Guest:And when you did Marin the show, you were in the fake garage, right?
Guest:Fake garage.
Marc:That is correct.
Marc:Well, what are you going to do?
Marc:But the point is, the last time I talked to you, you were kind of like a little star of this groovy, hip, indie wrestling network.
Guest:And it's wild that you're, this is the baby.
Guest:Now you're the baby, but this is big time.
Guest:Yeah, but it was from the scene of my group of guys.
Guest:Now, it wasn't necessarily me, because it was the Young Bucks and Kenny Omega, essentially, that kind of got with Tony, but the Young Bucks wrote a book, and in their book, they said they took the blueprint of Cole Cabana, of selling T-shirts, of one-on-one, and then they, I remember I thought I was doing good, and then I watched the Young Bucks get so big, and I watched their merch line, literally, like,
Guest:700 people around a building just for merch.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so then it became this thing, and now it's this thing.
Guest:And luckily, I'm along for the ride, and it's fun.
Guest:Well, yeah, I mean, you got in under the wire there, huh?
Guest:I really did.
Guest:Especially at my age, as my body's falling apart, I told you that.
Guest:Yeah, but what happened?
Guest:So how did it happen?
Guest:How'd you get the gig?
Guest:I mean, I'm just part of the community.
Guest:I'm part of the cult.
Guest:This is the opposite of what the other wrestling, you know what I'm saying?
Guest:This was the young, hungry guys.
Guest:It's counterculture of counterculture.
Guest:So that's interesting.
Guest:So this is all the guys that you were wrestling with on the Indies.
Guest:In front of 100 people, 200 people.
Guest:Sometimes 10,000 in Japan.
Guest:They wouldn't let us in America.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so...
Guest:For years we were saying, like, why won't you look at us and think that we're good?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Anybody.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And Tony Khan, like, wasn't able to do that.
Guest:And now there's another Jew.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Well, I feel bad.
Guest:Like, Max is such a star now, MJF.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm like the sad older Jew now.
Guest:Well, I mean, but it's good that we're represented.
Guest:There's a new upstart Jew and a sad older Jew.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:It is...
Guest:Fun to represent the chosen people.
Guest:Sure, man.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:I'm happy for you.
Guest:Well, I'm happy for you.
Guest:First of all, I love that you got thrown into wrestling.
Guest:I did, dude.
Guest:And when I heard you talking to Kia and to Chavo, and I'm like, oh, he gets it now.
Guest:He's been doing the wrestling show.
Guest:But I didn't fully get it until yesterday.
Marc:Because he sat down with me as a fan, a lifelong fan.
Marc:of pro wrestling, and we sat down and watched some of these matches.
Marc:I never did that with GLOW.
Marc:I never felt the pressure to because I wasn't really supposed to know about wrestling.
Marc:But just to sort of see how it all worked in real time, I've never been to one of these, but we watched them, and I was sort of like, oh, okay, I get it.
Marc:It all locked together.
Marc:I understand how you can be emotionally attached.
Marc:To wrestling.
Guest:And you appreciate the performance.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:You have to.
Guest:Yeah, it's real show business.
Guest:Especially as a performer.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:It's real show business.
Guest:Yeah, and so you're going to watch it in person tonight.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Which I think you'll get a whole new... So I can't wait to hear the after part of this.
Guest:Because you'll get a whole... To be up front and really watch the people as they're sweating and watch how they direct the crowd in the ring.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You'll get a whole new appreciation, which makes me happy.
Guest:Do we have good seats?
Guest:We better have good seats.
Guest:If you don't, I can...
Guest:All right, thanks.
Guest:I know a guy.
Guest:We might text you.
Guest:Please do.
Marc:Thanks, buddy.
Guest:Hey, congratulations on all your successes.
Marc:Thanks, buddy.
Guest:You too.
Guest:It's the best.
Marc:It's the best.
Marc:We found out some behind-the-scenes secrets about how AEW operates.
Marc:For example, sometimes a referee is not just a referee.
Marc:We met Bryce Remsburg backstage, and on camera he's a ref, but his work doesn't end there.
Guest:What would you say your title is while you're here?
Guest:Are you one of the senior officials?
Guest:Oh, one of the more senior officials.
Guest:One of the top six we have.
Guest:So what you saw Bryce do was he refereed the steel cage match with Jungle Boy.
Guest:Oh, that's true.
Guest:That's a true fact of that.
Guest:When he dove off the cage and shattered his hip and...
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And Bryce, I mean, we made note while we were watching it.
Guest:You're like, wow, this guy's really reacting to everything, even though he's not allowed to do anything.
Guest:It's a cage match.
Guest:I'm the voice of the audience.
Guest:If someone's jumping off a cage in front of me, I feel compelled to react, I guess.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But I mean, but you don't have to stop anything.
Guest:oh no no no no no they sign up for this who would want that right who wants to see me stop this yeah let them go yeah yeah i'm also the travel manager for aw which is uh a harder job which involves higher numbers than 10 or 20 but i mean uh making sure everyone gets here on time booking hotels booking flights shuttles car service etc all that you got to do all that shit and get in the ring is the payoff to get in the ring oh yeah absolutely 100 you
Guest:That's what I want to do.
Guest:You're a wrestler at points in your life.
Guest:I was a referee on the independence for 17 years and this started, so if I also have to talk to some hotels on the phone and able to get in there and do that, that scratches the edge.
Marc:Wait, so you arrange travel for all 50 of these guys?
Guest:150 is our number, yeah.
Marc:150?
Guest:About 90 wrestlers, 60 staff, a referee, social media, medical, security, all that.
Guest:That's all you?
Guest:I have a team, but I'm the manager, yeah.
Marc:And you do the reffing.
Guest:And Tony's car service and Tony's planes and everything, yep.
Marc:But are you sad you're not wrestling?
Marc:No.
Guest:No, I'm fragile emotionally and physically, Mark.
Guest:I don't want to do any of that.
Guest:But you used to?
Guest:I have a proxy.
Guest:No, I reffered on small stuff.
Guest:Oh, you reffed.
Guest:It's kind of like stand-up, I'd imagine.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:You work through the smaller stuff, and now you get to do the big-time stuff.
Guest:So you're always just a reff?
Guest:Yes, sir.
Guest:I'm short.
Guest:I make guys look tall.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I'm 5'5", so if I stand next to Darby or Jungle Boy, they look like giants.
Guest:That's my job.
Marc:So now, these guys don't travel together, though.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:They all fly from wherever they live at home, and they come to wherever we are.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Sometimes LA easy.
Guest:Next week, Fresno.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Not as easy, but we get there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now, what are you doing tonight?
Guest:I am going to referee Jungle Boy and Hook's tag team match.
Guest:And the aforementioned Darby Allin is wrestling on Rampage, I believe, later tonight.
Guest:So I'll be in there.
Guest:I'll be in there.
Guest:Where are you going to be?
Marc:I'll be wrestling.
Guest:The main event.
Guest:You'll be wrestling with your emotions.
Marc:I don't know where we're sitting, but I'll be here.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What a time to be alive.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Do you find a great crossover from wrestling psyche and self-doubt and stand-up comedians?
Guest:Even when you get to the highest point of everything...
Marc:I don't know, you know, just from talking to these guys, I don't know that many wrestlers, but it seems like some of the dues-paying process is similar.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:In terms of venue size and sort of getting your act together.
Guest:You feel like you earned it.
Marc:You feel like you earned it, but also you learn how to do it, you know, in smaller rooms and in smaller crowds.
Marc:And after talking to...
Marc:Chris Jericho, just learning how to work off the crowd and how that sort of feeds what you're doing.
Marc:So I think more of a similarity in knowing that this is all show business and the do's process is very similar.
Marc:It's a lot less physical to be a comic.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But the crummy hotels and flight delays, and that's part of the gig.
Marc:All that's part of it, yeah.
Marc:But these guys are kind of solo operators as well, but ultimately the show is with other people, whereas that's not the case.
Guest:I'm so jealous of you.
Guest:You just need a mic stand and a stool and a bottle of water.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:And we have this whole production with the ring.
Guest:Did you get in the ring?
Guest:Did you get in the ring?
Marc:I didn't get in the ring.
Marc:But some guys these days are doing pretty big productions.
Guest:Yeah?
Marc:Stand-ups.
Marc:Oh, yeah, sure.
Guest:Good for them.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Kevin Hart, that's a big operation.
Guest:Good for him.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Another short guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Good talking to you.
Guest:Good talking to you.
Thank you, sir.
Marc:So the day after the show, Brendan came over to the garage and we got on the mics to talk about the whole experience.
Marc:You'll hear that now along with our talks with wrestlers MJF and Eddie Kingston.
Marc:You know, to be honest with you, the whole experience backstage, watching the stuff first, and then being there at the show, I mean, I totally get it.
Marc:And I totally was invested in it.
Marc:Even when we watched...
Marc:the stuff in the living room.
Marc:Like, just you telling me the background of the people.
Marc:And something clicked for me.
Marc:Did we talk about it on the mics?
Marc:Something clicked for me in that I can understand, not unlike a musical, like with my weird thing about musicals, is that...
Marc:When you see a lot of people executing something that they're doing properly, it's moving.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So even when we were watching it in the living room, I sort of got the beats.
Marc:And when you explain the structure of a match, I got that.
Marc:But just the fact that, you know, like, oh, he made it.
Marc:You know, he landed on the thing.
Marc:You know, there's something exciting about that.
Marc:But watching it live...
Marc:I felt the same kind of emotions, I feel, that are not really explained when an arc sort of worked.
Marc:Like, they have a build to it, right?
Marc:So when they're doing the finale of moves, you know, I could feel, like, you know, almost tear up.
Guest:And a lot of that was, like, the crowd, right?
Guest:Like, did you get that sense of, like, when a match would build and the crowd would be counting along to a pinfall and everything?
Marc:I guess so, but I still felt engaged with the actual wrestling itself.
Marc:I mean, the crowd was there, but you kind of just integrated after a while, and I didn't understand half the chants.
Marc:I didn't know what the fuck they were saying.
Marc:Wasn't one of them, that's awesome?
Marc:This is awesome.
Marc:It's like in a hockey-style chant.
Guest:They do, this is awesome.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:They love it.
Guest:They love that.
Guest:There's Fight Forever, which is another one when they really want the guys to just keep going.
Guest:They're saying, fight forever.
Marc:And then you start to realize there's a dance to it and that the, you know, the chess hitting thing is some sort of ritualistic, it's a ritualistic move.
Guest:It's funny.
Guest:It's like, I was aware of it last night when I normally am not.
Guest:They really do it every match as a way to almost be like, okay, I want you to pay attention.
Guest:We're really hitting each other right now.
Marc:Right, but it's also a building thing.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You know, it's sort of like, it's like the...
Marc:The slapping, like you just keep slapping somebody, you know, to build this kind of like I'm not going to I'm not going to back down business.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it also because it's a physical slap that makes a sound that reverberates everywhere.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's no way that you're that people watching it are able to ignore it.
Guest:You have to be invested in that moment that a person just took a slap to the chest and it made a sound and it looked like it hurt.
Guest:Probably did hurt.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But it's also it seems to me to be part of the ritualistic dance of the thing.
Marc:Not unlike, you know, when real wrestlers kind of grab hold each other that first time.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And do that sort of dance.
Marc:The grapple.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That that that it sort of fills that thing.
Guest:It's funny because I think in a different era, if we had gone and watched it, you would have seen a lot more of specifically that, like the clinch and the grapple, which is called a lockup.
Guest:They would do that, and that would be a kind of part of the ritual of building the match.
Guest:I think what you notice now, it's more often like they're going to start the match with strikes.
Guest:They're going to start the match with either punches or kicks or things that make a big noise or make a bit.
Guest:There's a lot, a lot of kicking where they involves them slapping their own leg.
Guest:So it sounds like he just kicked him right in the jaw and it made a big loud noise.
Guest:And, and all of these things are kind of like getting your attention right away.
Guest:Like, sure.
Marc:I think that because it's become so, uh, such a spectacle, uh, that, you know, technology and, um,
Marc:Just pace has had to adapt.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, I think if you're watching it in a VFW hall in a pure form, it's probably more old school.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Marc:I would imagine because you don't have the artifice.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, like, and I also noticed when we were backstage that the thing that struck me, even talking to the wrestlers, is that they're...
Marc:I'm intimidated by athleticism, by that competitive nature of sports.
Marc:I wouldn't really know how to be in a locker room.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's like your old joke about how if you see a teenager walking with a varsity jacket on one side of the street.
Marc:It should be cool.
Marc:But, yeah, but there's that.
Marc:But also just it's so not my world.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, I don't even understand, you know, why it's important in the sense that, like, I get they're going to go win.
Marc:And there's, you know, the goal is the sport.
Marc:And these guys are in top shape to do a sport.
Marc:But these guys, you know, they're big guys.
Marc:And I'm sure they have sports in their past, some of them.
Marc:But they're very aware that they're part of show business.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You know, you're not going to have that vibe in a football locker room like, you know, we're just putting on a show.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Marc:You know, like these guys are very much we're putting on a show.
Marc:They're not backstage psyching each other out.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, it's just like it's like a fucking circus back there.
Guest:Well, we should tell people how we saw all of this, how it kind of developed for us as as witnesses to it.
Guest:When we when we were, you know, showed up to the arena.
Guest:The first thing we got to see, we were in the bowl of the arena, the forum.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was pre-show.
Guest:It was about three hours before they opened the doors or before the show started.
Guest:And the wrestlers, a lot of them, were in the ring talking through what their match was going to be that night.
Marc:Specifically that closer.
Marc:It looked like that was what was happening when we got there.
Marc:They had the ladder in there.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:And there was a lot of discussion.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And yeah, this was for the main event of the show, which was going to be six guys fighting for championships that were on cables hanging above the ring.
Guest:And they had to go on ladders to grab the championships to win the match.
Guest:And the guys were in the ring.
Guest:making sure to talk through everything.
Guest:And the guy who was with us, our liaison, said, oh yeah, they've been out there for about an hour.
Guest:They were not wrestling.
Guest:They were basically rehearsing without the moves what they were going to do.
Guest:And then you could see around the ring, because these guys were in the ring with ladders and all the props were there, but around the ring were other wrestlers talking.
Guest:And you could see from where we were sitting in the bowl, you could see people like pantomiming, throwing punches,
Guest:So they're talking through, here's what I'm going to do.
Guest:I'm going to do this.
Guest:I pointed out to Mark that one guy who was talking with two wrestlers who were fighting that night was an old retired wrestler.
Guest:His role is a producer, which is what Colt Cabana is there as well.
Guest:And the guidance that he's providing them is from the perspective of a guy who's watching the match.
Guest:Here's what you're going to do to build.
Guest:You're not in.
Guest:I'm the guy outside.
Guest:I'm kind of directing you, producing you.
Guest:So we saw all of that going on and saw how involved it was.
Guest:We also saw them doing their music cues, just doing running through like you run through dress rehearsal for a play.
Guest:Like I thought it was very funny that we watched like the Dr. Britt Baker come out and do her whole entrance.
Guest:But she was in sweatpants, you know, and they didn't throw the pot.
Guest:yeah well you're right they have a huge ramp and giant screens and there's pyro when they enter and walk down the ramp to the ring there is a carny element to it yes right definitely and uh and so we watched that for a while we watched you know just kind of what they were setting up then we we went uh backstage to the forum club uh to have where there was a kind of sitting area right that we
Guest:could sit and do some of the interviews and that was with uh with with max mjf who's the champion and we knew he was going to come in and do basically a gimmick interview in character it's funny though he's talking normal yeah and and uh and i'm like so this is going to stop right when we go on he's like oh yeah i'm going to be the biggest douchebag jew from long island that you ever met yeah right
Guest:the worst jewish person from long island now hold on a second i'm salt of the earth you don't get to say that about well i mean i just fans can say that you don't get to say that yeah but i mean aren't you helping jews i i'd like to think so yeah you know when you think about jewish people normally they're very schleppy nerdy looking kind of like you yeah but you know i'm trying to break the mold wait wait back up back up i think that i'm half a half nerdy half stocky
Guest:like a hybrid jew that's right hybrid not full nebbish not full nebbish you're not like all the way to the to the right athletic like goldberg that's right you're not all the way to the left don rickles that's right well i'm not a math jew i'm uh you know i'm in the middle let me tell you something i'm definitely not a math jew so uh besides counting my money but of course now do you find how jews respond to you jews love me you do i'm the mensch of the cinch yeah you kidding me
Guest:I'm over as fuck with the track.
Marc:How about Israelis?
Marc:Do Israelis like you?
Marc:Israelis?
Marc:Yeah, dude.
Guest:If you're a Jew, you love MJF because if you think about it, I'm really the first prolific world champion that just so happens to be Jewish in the history of the business that is good at talking and wrestling.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Love Bill Goldberg to death, but you put a mic in front of his mouth, he kind of has a bit of a panic attack.
Marc:Now, how many Jews, is there a history of Jews in wrestling?
Marc:No.
Marc:Not really.
Guest:There's not a lot of us, as you would imagine.
Guest:Most of us are known for being dentists, doctors, lawyers, or stand-up comedians.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:But there's been a few sports Jews, no?
Marc:For sure.
Guest:Actually, my great, great uncle, Benny Friedman, is in the NFL Hall of Fame.
Guest:He was a quarterback.
Marc:I know there were Jew boxers.
Guest:Chewbacca's?
Guest:Jew boxers.
Marc:I'm just fucking with you.
Guest:Yes, there were definitely Jewish boxers, for sure.
Marc:Was this the dream?
Guest:Pro wrestling?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:From the jump.
Guest:My two biggest things I wanted to do since I was a child was professional wrestling and then parlay that into acting.
Guest:But when did you start watching wrestling?
Guest:I started watching wrestling probably when I was six.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I remember what had happened was my father took me to my uncle's house and there was just a party going on on a Friday.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And SmackDown was playing at the time, WWE SmackDown.
Guest:And I remember just seeing these gigantic men and I was just so enamored by it.
Guest:These dudes just beating the shit out of each other.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I remember I just grabbed my dad and I was like, take me to Hollywood video.
Guest:So now if anyone's listening and you don't know what Hollywood video is.
Guest:Yeah, I remember.
Guest:I'm shocked somebody's listening that's younger than me.
Guest:I was born in 96, but yes, now Hollywood videos don't really exist anymore.
Guest:But so he took me to Hollywood video.
Guest:I grabbed one of the DVD box sets and there was a guy on the cover that looked like a zombie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I watched it, and that guy turned out to be The Undertaker.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And my first match I ever watched in full was a Hell in a Cell match.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now, I don't know if you've ever seen this march, Matt.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was intense.
Guest:Mick Foley got thrown from the top of the cell to the floor.
Guest:Is that what did him in?
Guest:I mean, I think a lot of things did that guy in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's definitely, he's wrote some great stuff.
Marc:He's a great author.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But his brain is mush.
Marc:We talked to him a couple times.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's just beat up physically.
Marc:Oh, for sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Beat up physically, mentally, emotionally.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hot daughter, though.
Guest:I'll give him that.
Guest:Noel's hot.
Marc:But aren't you concerned that you're going to get beat up physically, mentally, emotionally?
Guest:Mark, what?
Guest:Please, listen to me.
Guest:Let me explain something to you.
Guest:I don't wrestle often.
Guest:I'm what they call a special attraction.
Guest:Kind of like Andre the Giant.
Guest:Just not necessarily as tall.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:i think he was a jew wasn't he andre definitely not definitely french okay not jewish all right um but we can beget about that but so you're not concerned about your well-being you're i'm really not i wrestle i wrestle very rarely uh i get paid very well yeah uh because when i do wrestle people really tune in because i'm such a hot commodity and i rarely wrestle i mainly if i'm being honest with myself yeah i run my mouth a little bit right that's what i'm known for but
Marc:but not wrestling i mean you wrestle i mean i'm very good i'm the world champion of course i'm good at professional how do you do that by not wrestling often well now i have the title so i don't have to defend the belt unless somebody becomes number one contender isn't my understanding that the uh that guys like you eventually get schooled what are you talking about me yeah i mean how could i possibly be schooled i'm the smartest man in professional wrestling but someone's gonna beat you right mark that's impossible all right
Guest:You sound very foolish, right?
Guest:No, I apologize.
Guest:Maybe I'm just, I don't know enough.
Guest:You're just, you're a little green around the ears when it comes to professional wrestling.
Marc:That's fine.
Guest:That's all right.
Guest:But what guys like Mean are known for is we win the world title and people chase us forever in a day and then we retire and we, you know, we retire undefeated.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, that's it.
Guest:I mean, that's pretty much tale as old as time.
Guest:Bad guy not getting his comeuppance.
Guest:What about the acting future?
Guest:Is that going to happen?
Guest:So actually, I had just booked a role and just finished rapping with a movie called Iron Claw.
Guest:Is it a wrestling movie?
Guest:It is.
Guest:It's about the Von Ericks.
Guest:It was me and Zac Efron and Colt McAllister and Jeremy Allen White.
Guest:Did you play a wrestler?
Guest:No.
Guest:I did, shockingly.
Guest:Did you play a douchebag?
Guest:So you would call the guy that I played a douchebag.
Guest:His name was Lance Von Eric.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he may or may not have held up the promoter for money.
Guest:Who's to say?
Guest:Oh, this is like old-timey wrestling?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:This is back in the day.
Guest:This is retro wrestling in Texas.
Guest:It's based on a true story.
Guest:Did you do a Texan accent?
Guest:no absolutely not all right no i don't mess around with i don't i don't want to sound dumb personally i don't know if you're from the south i apologize that you're dumb but i don't like sounding southern um you grew up on long island of course what's the most magical place in the world i grew up in plain view yeah and now i own an apartment in the uh the golden coast over at glenn cove what oh is that nice oh it's kidding me i had i had cousins in hewlett oh yeah i like that okay so you don't come from horrible stock no i come from jew stock jersey city jews a little
Guest:it's uh maybe we don't talk about that maybe we'll talk about where you come from yeah you know they moved to where you came from exactly yeah exactly what they want their life to get better what was your dad a doctor did you grow up with a porsche my well my first car was a camaro not a porsche i'm actually about to get a porsche in february yeah it's a uh gts tycon oh really neon green what you ordered it
Guest:Of course I did.
Guest:You ordered the neon green one?
Guest:Neon green.
Marc:Tycon.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Green like money, baby.
Marc:I don't know what that means.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So a Tycon, it's their only electric vehicle.
Guest:Oh, you got an electric port.
Guest:Yes, I did.
Guest:Good luck with that.
Marc:What?
Marc:What?
Marc:It'll be fine.
Marc:I think it'll be fine.
Guest:I mean, you just seem like a gas guy.
Guest:That's the thing, is a lot of people would think that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I'm very smart with my money and gas prices these days, as you would know as an L.A.
Marc:boy, through the roof.
Marc:Terrible.
Marc:Terrible.
Marc:Horrible.
Marc:First car was a Camaro, though, huh?
Marc:First car was a Camaro.
Marc:So what kind of business was your old man in?
Guest:So my father made Paleo Bagels.
Guest:Really?
Guest:He works for me now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He works for you making bagels?
Guest:No, now.
Guest:Now he's done with the bagels.
Guest:He's sold the business.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:God bless him.
Guest:What do you mean Paleo Bagels?
Guest:They're called Pagels.
Guest:That was his big idea?
Guest:That was his big thing, and he made a decent chunk of change off of that.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Jewish people love their bagels, and Long Island Jews love their diets.
Guest:So if you mix those two things together, we're talking a lot of money.
Guest:So how do you make a paleo bagel?
Guest:So we found out about this stuff called cassava flour.
Guest:Oh, sure.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And he would use that.
Guest:He would utilize that to make the bagels.
Marc:And now is it a kind of bagel where you've been into it, and you're like, not great, but it's paleo.
Marc:Let me tell you.
Guest:I'm about to shock you.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Just as good as a regular bagel.
Guest:And that's coming from a Long Island Jew.
Guest:Really?
Guest:He boiled it in the water and baked it?
Guest:He figured it out.
Guest:I don't know how he did it.
Guest:Guy's a mad scientist when it comes to bagels.
Guest:So what's he do for you?
Guest:So now he's just managing my money.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:100%.
Guest:You trust him?
Guest:Not really.
Guest:But somebody's got to give that schmuck a job, you know?
Guest:And then my mom, she's in the steel industry.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She works for a company called B&S Aircraft.
Guest:She co-owns the company with my uncle, Alan Weissman.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, yeah.
Guest:If you ever need steel or metal.
Guest:Was that Trump's guy who just got put in jail?
Guest:I doubt it.
Guest:Weisselberg.
Guest:Weisselberg.
Guest:What do I know?
Marc:Jews.
Guest:Yeah, another long-nosed Jewish guy.
Marc:So now, do you find any actual anti-Semitism coming at you?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I've had death threats.
Guest:I've had Nazi emblems keyed into my car.
Guest:Really?
Guest:When I was on the indies, you would hear kike a lot more often than I've heard it here, but I think that's only because the arenas are so loud.
Guest:If there is someone screaming kike, I just can't hear it because there's so many people booing me because of that bad taste mark.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:um that's kind of interesting right did you ever find it menacing or you still thought it was all part of the gimmick quite frankly so i think the in the underbelly of society and i think you would agree with this anti-semitism has always been rampant of course that's why we're kind of always like oh shit you got the cough gotta be the jews you know what i mean like a jewish
Guest:people is always the scapegoat yeah so i think this kanye thing kind of unearthed it all over again yeah and i found that really interesting to see how many people were in the replies like you know he's not wrong yeah and you're just reading it and at first you're just baffled by the stupidity right but then you have to remind yourself no anti-semitism is rampant but it's not as fun to talk about as say um other ethnicities going through it
Marc:For whatever reason.
Marc:Well, that's because most people don't know Jews.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, like, you know, other ethnicities are more represented in culture.
Marc:I'd say you got to go find a Jew.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We're hiding.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We're hiding.
Marc:We're writing for the anti-Semites is what we're doing.
Marc:But I like in comedy, though, I go out of my way now.
Marc:I like to really kind of make a big deal out of the Jew thing.
Marc:I love it.
Marc:Annoy whatever people might be anti-Semitic.
Marc:I like to get people to just get to a point where they're like, we get it, Jew.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:I think we're going to get along great.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Because that's what I love to do.
Guest:That's actually exactly what I love to do.
Marc:But what are you going to do tonight?
Marc:This is my first live wrestling show.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:I'm so sorry.
Marc:You're not wrestling.
Guest:You're going to have to deal with everybody else except me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I'm just going to go out there and talk and be the biggest star in the entire show like I am every week.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:That's why I get paid by seven figures.
Guest:You're the guy.
Guest:Fuck.
Guest:kidding me mark uh don't don't be stupid uh so i'm gonna go out there yeah entertain the crowd like nobody else's business yeah i know that there are a bunch of you know highfalutin people here in la are there who's coming and uh they got a lot of interesting people around here apparently people like you ken jong freddie prince jr macaulay colkin uh paul walter hauser those are a couple of people that i know they're gonna be here
Guest:Paul's a great guy.
Guest:He's a good guy.
Guest:Paul's a great guy.
Guest:You really text him.
Guest:He just texted me the other day.
Guest:Paul's a huge MJF fan.
Guest:I mean, who the fuck is it, Mark?
Marc:Me.
Marc:I'm just learning.
Marc:I'm trying to get in.
Guest:Trying to get into it.
Guest:I'm not too late.
Guest:Do I have to be seven?
Guest:You're never too late.
Guest:And if anybody tells you that you have to be young to enjoy this, I think it's silly.
Guest:And I'm now, I'm going to get real serious with you on this.
Guest:I think now more than ever, professional wrestling is this incredible thing because it's,
Guest:not only is it this crazy form of athleticism, but it's also in a sense is you're, you're seeing us where we are, we are performing this sport with no net and there's no backup plan and there's no way to mess up.
Guest:Whereas if I sit down and I go to see a standup comic and there there's shit in the bed,
Guest:they can maybe figure out a way to get around it.
Guest:And it's probably not being recorded live for the world to see while it's happening.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But we're alive every single week.
Guest:Well, you go, we go without that sometimes.
Marc:And yeah, but I mean, but I guess when we fuck up, not the whole world doesn't see it right now.
Marc:So the risk is not, you're going to drop a guy.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:The risk isn't that you're going to be a paraplegic.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I mean, when you do this, when you do the, the matches, I mean, you've got bits you do.
Marc:Right?
Marc:What do you call them?
Marc:I mean, I'll bite people from now and then, but if only it's necessary.
Marc:I mean, when you chart it out, you know what you're going to open with mostly?
Guest:Like, yeah, as a comic, you know.
Guest:Personally.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm a shoot from the hip type of guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:I say what I'm feeling.
Guest:I feel what I'm saying.
Guest:But I mean, like, with moves.
Marc:Like, with actual wrestling.
Guest:With the moves, when I'm in there, you know, I have to study my opponent, study their movement, figure out what openings I have.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Is their arm hurt?
Guest:Is their fucking finger hurt?
Marc:Is their knee hurt?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's where you...
Guest:Then you got to go for it.
Guest:Do you ever use, you know, weaponry?
Guest:So you're not going to tell anybody this, right?
Guest:No, I'm not.
Guest:All right, thank God.
Guest:So sometimes if I'm a little worried, I have a ring that I put in my trunks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I put it on my pinky.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I punch the guy out with it when the ref's not looking.
Guest:All right.
Guest:And it works every time.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Every time.
Guest:So you cheat.
Guest:What?
Guest:I mean, is that part of it?
Guest:What are you talking about?
Guest:I think I slightly bend the rules.
Guest:All right.
Guest:To my advantage.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:You have to.
Guest:You have to.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm not trying to get hurt.
Guest:How was your bar mitzvah?
Guest:Was it good?
Guest:Oh, Maximania?
Guest:Are you kidding me?
Guest:It was fantastic.
Guest:yeah yeah we had we had dancing luchador females their tatas were out it was all kosher that that was your bar mitzvah party oh wrestling theme wrestling theme that's hilarious now did you do the full thing friday and saturday um no no one day gimmick red in the morning party in the party in the that was it yeah did the half tour yeah get it in get out let's get some money so oh yeah
Guest:Yeah, you know how Jewish grandparents and cousins are.
Guest:They were great.
Guest:They treated me well that night, for sure.
Guest:Brothers and sisters?
Guest:I have two older siblings, yes.
Guest:And do they judge you?
Guest:Are they proud of you?
Guest:I think they're definitely proud of the fact
Guest:I think they knew I was going to make something of myself to this degree.
Guest:I don't think any of them could have guessed it.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Are they doctors or lawyers or anything?
Guest:So Carly, my, the middle sister, she's in like business and finance.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then Alex is actually in fashion.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like as a designer or just- She's a designer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Has she done any trunks for you or anything?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I won't let her anywhere near my shit.
Guest:She's horrible at her job, but you know, she's trying.
Guest:She's trying her best.
Guest:God bless her.
Guest:How are you going to get the Nazis not to key your green Porsche?
Guest:So the good news is now I get flown out, and I have a driver.
Guest:So I never drive my own car when we're going to different arenas in different states every week.
Guest:But back on the island, you'll drive it back to the garage.
Guest:Back on the island, yeah.
Guest:I'll drive my car.
Guest:But everybody loves me on Long Island.
Marc:I'm a welcome team.
Guest:Are you a hero?
Guest:1,000%.
Guest:You know, I get booed everywhere else because everybody else has bad taste.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We come to Long Island.
Guest:Everybody in Long Island knows the deal.
Guest:They know I'm the best thing since sliced bread.
Guest:So you're like Billy Joel.
Guest:I guess so.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'd say much more attractive than Bill.
Guest:I would hope so at this point.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Give it time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, yeah, shit.
Marc:It's a good time.
Marc:Time gets us all.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So tonight you're just going to get up there and start some shit?
Marc:Maybe.
Marc:We'll see how I'm feeling.
Marc:It was good talking to you.
Marc:I know it was, Mark.
Marc:All right.
Marc:And we talked to Eddie Kingston.
Guest:Yeah, Eddie, we talked to him specifically because I had read a piece that he had put together for the website The Players' Tribune, a piece largely about his mental health issues.
Guest:But in the piece, he kind of outlined his trajectory as a wrestler.
Guest:And I remember reading it months ago when it came out and thinking like, wow, there's so many parallels here to people we've had on this show talking about struggling with comedy sometimes.
Marc:specifically mark like you know there were you talking about those hell gigs where sure nobody in the crowd and we've discussed that with wrestlers before i mean that that was you know we knew that that was a similarity but i think what i didn't what i had to put together you know you're talking to um you know show business people yeah it's athletic and you know it's risky but you know this is a show and you
Marc:when you think about people, one of the things I was thinking about after we saw it was these guys who were like, I wanted to do it since I was seven.
Guest:It was every person to a man.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Under 10.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Under 10 years old.
Marc:And the guy, and there was a kid right next to us at the show who must've been six, seven years old.
Marc:And he was so into it.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:He knew the moves.
Marc:He knew the chants.
Marc:He was like polite too.
Guest:Like he was this like polite little kid.
Guest:Like he was chanting encouragement to them.
Guest:You can do it, Kenny.
Guest:You know?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, a dad got him hip to that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, but the idea that I wanted to do this since I was a kid, like there's some part of me that's like, why would you want to do this ridiculous thing?
Marc:But like, I wanted to be a comic.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Since I was like 10.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:But so they always knew it was a show.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:They weren't like, they want to be part of the show.
Marc:Right.
Marc:They don't want to be football players.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:You know, they're like, this guy gets to walk around and be like, I'm the guy.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Marc:It's a spectacle, but it's also like the ego in it is completely showmanship.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's not sports acumen.
Guest:Well, I also think a lot of it is that, you know, these people, they develop a relationship with the wrestlers they're watching.
Guest:And I'm talking about anybody watching the thing.
Guest:And especially if you're younger, it becomes a form of hero worship.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Wow, that guy is – it's incredible what he does.
Marc:Well, that's what –
Marc:Like, who said that?
Marc:That's what Max said.
Marc:You know, just wanted to be one of those, see those guys.
Marc:You know, those guys were cool.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And Eddie was this guy who, he developed his hero worship around these tapes he was seeing from Japan.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Of these Japanese wrestlers who hit really hard, tried to make the presentation look very realistic.
Guest:And that was what he kind of integrated into his act.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And his persona was I'm going to wrestle and I'm going to make this as real as possible.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And also, I think that not unlike the experience of as a fan like you or somebody watching is that this gives these guys, you know, who are probably not emotionally that healthy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, a very specific context to have extreme emotions.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Of all kinds.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:You know, in character and also physicality.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, they make these decisions.
Marc:So not unlike a fan who's experiencing a wave of emotions and, you know,
Marc:personality, identification, transference, you know, hero worship, all that stuff, or having the arc of an emotional experience to any match, these guys, you know, have this controlled performative way to sort of really get the shit out.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You know how to handle a mic.
I try.
Marc:Yeah, hold up.
Guest:Sometimes they trust us, sometimes they don't.
Marc:Yeah, there you go.
Guest:Especially when I want to curse on live TV, which is not a good thing.
Guest:Yeah, sometimes.
Guest:You know, I use curses as like, you know, adjectives or whatever.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Yeah, I spent a lot of time in New York.
Marc:I know what it's like.
Marc:You speak the language.
Marc:which you already know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I just wanted to say, when they came to us about doing this with AEW and, you know, working with our show, you know, they give us the whole list of people to do stuff with.
Guest:And I said, no, actually, I want Eddie Kingston.
Guest:Like, that's the guy who matches up the closest with what we do on this show.
Guest:No, no, not MJF, our world champion.
Guest:He just came in.
Guest:So, I mean, he was going to Bigfoot it no matter what, I guess.
Guest:He's a real piece of shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm just going to put that out there.
Guest:I don't know why he's the champ, but he'll hear this anyway, and he'll cry about it to Tony.
Guest:Then I'll get an email from Mega HR.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they'll be like, you can't be calling our world champion a piece of shit.
Guest:And I'll be like, well, if he doesn't act like a piece of shit, I wouldn't call him that.
Guest:But, you know.
Guest:Isn't that his job to act like a piece of shit?
Guest:Not backstage to the boys.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:He's a lowlife, man.
Guest:He's a young kid who just thinks he knows it all, and he doesn't.
Guest:fuck him i don't give a shit what are you gonna do fire me okay yeah yeah i'll work i'll work somewhere and make money it doesn't bother me but yeah but your your journey to where you are yeah was uh it was fucking hard yeah it was that's a nice way of putting it yeah i mean you grew up where'd you grow up i grew up in yonkers new york i was born in the bronx uh university avenue but then grew up in yonkers
Marc:Yeah, and I mean, because I read a piece on you, and it was like, you know, I kind of related to it because I did stand-up for, you know, a long time before anything happened.
Marc:And you get to that point where you're like, fuck.
Guest:When is this going to pop off?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then you, like, you hit the wall.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then you're just tired and you're done and you don't know what to do.
Guest:And then you're like, for me, it was during the pandemic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was selling my clothes, my wrestling gear on eBay or wherever.
Marc:But did you have, you had fans at that point?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I had independent fans.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I was getting money, but it was still like, I'm trying to pay for the mortgage.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In Florida, you know what I mean?
Guest:Oh, you were in Florida.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:What part of Florida?
Guest:Orlando.
Guest:Yeah, that's not a happy place.
Guest:I like it because no one knows me.
Guest:And I'm just in my backyard and smoking a little bit of weed and no one knows me.
Guest:So you live down there now?
Marc:Yeah, I live down there now.
Marc:They're going to get mad at me.
Marc:Like, I'm like the biggest heel to Orlando.
Marc:Because I talk shit about it and they just always yell at me.
Guest:Well, I don't blame you because during the pandemic, I went to the 7-Eleven.
Guest:The pandemic just started.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Just started.
Guest:I go to the 7-Eleven.
Guest:I'm wearing my mask and everything.
Guest:No one in there is.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Nobody.
Marc:Well, there's that, but I kind of get stuck in the theme park thing.
Marc:If you just go to Orlando and all you experience is the theme park, then they hate you because they're like, you didn't go out and get a hamburger.
Marc:You didn't go out and do this or that.
Marc:I don't go out.
Guest:Thank God for Uber Eats.
Guest:When I get home from the road, it's five guys and-
Guest:Ben and Jerry's from 7-Eleven, that's it.
Guest:But what were you doing?
Guest:When did you leave New York?
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:I was 33, 34.
Guest:Met a girl.
Marc:Yeah, but you started wrestling when you were in New York?
Guest:Yeah, I was 20 years old when I started wrestling, yeah.
Marc:Wait, how did that happen?
Marc:Is there something you always wanted to do?
Guest:Always wanted to do it.
Guest:And then I was ironworking in the city for Local 580.
Guest:What's up, boys?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you were a union guy.
Guest:Yeah, my whole family's union, all elevated.
Guest:Ironworkers?
Guest:No, local one.
Guest:My Uncle Kevin Moore, rest in peace, he was an ironworker.
Guest:Now, were you like up on, like.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, sitting on the girders.
Guest:Yeah, that and the hoist and all that stuff.
Guest:Yeah, hanging off the side of the building, welding, putting windows in, all that stuff.
Guest:Holy shit.
Guest:So I just turned around and I saw like a 70, 80-year-old guy who's been on the job God knows how long.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he's just coughing up a lung and drinking on the job site.
Guest:And I went, I'm smoking my cigarette going, there got to be something more than this.
Guest:And I just got AOL.
Guest:Yes, I'm older.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I just looked up wrestling schools near me.
Guest:And I found one.
Guest:Which one did you go to?
Guest:I went to one in Jersey.
Guest:They kicked me out.
Guest:I'm a New York kid, so I'm not going to hold my tongue.
Guest:I didn't know I had to be whatever professional, I guess they call it.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:Like if I saw someone who was being an asshole, I was like, oh, you're an asshole.
Guest:But they're like, oh, he's been in the business this amount of years.
Guest:You can't be mean like that.
Guest:I'm like, what are you talking about?
Guest:Anyway, got kicked out of there.
Guest:Went to a place in Pennsylvania called Jakara.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Where a lot of us are from.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A lot of the AEW people.
Marc:They trained there?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They learned?
Marc:Yeah, they all learned from there and then just took off.
Marc:And what do you learn?
Marc:Mostly, do you learn how to put together a persona or just moves?
Guest:For me, it wasn't the persona.
Marc:You already had that.
Guest:I was just me, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is me.
Yeah.
Guest:They teach you how to tell a story.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Not just what moves to do, but how to tell it.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:Like, how do you put that together in your head?
Marc:Like, you're going on tonight.
Guest:Yeah, tonight, me, I don't talk about it.
Guest:I like, because after 21 years in, not that I know it, it's just...
Guest:After 21 years in, I don't remember a lot of things.
Guest:You can't tell me what you're going to do because I'll forget.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:So they just got to react?
Guest:I go, listen, we just got to react to each other and do what we would do in real life if we're in a real fight.
Guest:I try to keep it in, you know.
Guest:Fresh?
Guest:Yeah, character, I guess you could say, whatever you want to call it.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I don't want to talk to you out there, so I'm not going to talk to you back here.
Guest:We may go over little things here and there, but other than that, let's just.
Marc:So it's just the assumption that everybody can respond to the move you're going to put on them?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, we're just going to see what happens.
Guest:And if they react, they react.
Guest:If they don't, then we'll go a different way.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Now, when he started, though, what was the, you know, what was the independent scene like at that time?
Marc:Oh, it was shitty.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was horrible.
Guest:I was getting like $5 a show, $10 a show.
Guest:And promoters, though, like, did they take advantage of it?
Guest:Oh, God, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The indie scene didn't pop off on the East Coast until about...
Guest:I say 05, 06.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:And that's when I was, like, a couple years in, and then there were guys like me, Samoa Joe, Homicide, Bryan Danielson.
Guest:Those guys made the independents really hot.
Guest:Right.
Marc:But they still screwed you.
Marc:Yeah, but before, did you see, like, dudes that, like, you know, who'd been at it too long and that were, like, sad and...
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And that's how I feel like I look like now in the locker room to the guys.
Guest:I'm just sitting in the corner going, when are we done with this?
Marc:But it didn't scare you?
Marc:It didn't make you think like, holy shit.
Guest:No, because I didn't want to do anything for my life.
Guest:This was it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, if I wasn't going to do this, then I was just going to do iron working or whatever.
Guest:So when shit went bad, what happened?
Marc:You just dried up?
Marc:The work dried up?
Guest:Oh, COVID hit.
Guest:And that was it.
Guest:And everything, that was it.
Guest:Everything dried up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Unless you were with the two big companies.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:AEW and the other places.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And yeah, if you didn't have it, you were just home.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Waiting.
Guest:And how did you get this gig?
Guest:I mean, how did you?
Guest:I talked a lot of shit.
Guest:I had an independent show finally.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:After COVID.
Guest:Out in New York.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:After COVID.
Guest:And I just grabbed the microphone one day and I said, hey, Cody Rhodes had a thing going here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Open challenge.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I said, hey, Cody, all these guys that you're fighting are kids.
Guest:I'm a grown man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All this stuff.
Guest:And then it caught wind on Twitter.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, and I was like, okay.
Guest:And then they called me in, and they were like, oh, we want to bring you in to wrestle Cody.
Guest:And the first question I asked was, how much?
Guest:How much are we getting?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because the way I didn't look at it, like I was getting a contract.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I didn't look at it as a tryout.
Guest:Oh, you just saw it like a one-nighter?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I looked at it like, okay, man, I can pay my mortgage next month, so I'm good to go.
Guest:But they signed you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I got lucky.
Guest:I had a good dance partner with Cody, and we beat each other up.
Guest:And two weeks later, they were like, hey, you want a contract?
Guest:They go, yeah, how much?
Yeah.
Guest:And how many matches you do in a week?
Guest:Oh, for AEW?
Guest:It's once a week.
Guest:But you don't go out at... Oh, no, I do.
Guest:I like doing the independents still.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Because without the independents, I would have went nuts years ago.
Marc:So you just like it to do the shows.
Guest:Yeah, and a lot of times...
Guest:Well, they already announced it a couple times.
Guest:I hate it when they do this.
Guest:I usually will go there and do a show, but I'll tell them, take half my money and give it to a charity that's local.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I tell them not to announce it, just do it.
Guest:And they announced it anyway.
Guest:So yeah, that's what I like to do.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And they're like, really?
Guest:I'm like, look, you guys kept me fed.
Guest:for years right and i had nothing so let me help you back out that's nice yeah i don't like being nice but it happens once in a while well i mean yeah you don't have to tell people yeah yeah yeah yeah but like when you go to england yeah have you been there a lot yeah a couple times about eight eight or nine times and what's the scene like there
Guest:Uh, I don't know how it is now after COVID, but before COVID I lived out there for three months and it was every day was a show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Except for like a Monday we had off.
Guest:And the fans?
Guest:Oh, insane.
Guest:I love the fans over there.
Marc:Now, so this, you know, this international, right?
Marc:So they all know you from this.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Hopefully they do.
Marc:Hopefully they know me from this.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But no, they knew me before that, but not a lot.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like I had a little niche, you know, like punk rock.
Marc:Right, sure.
Guest:I had that little group.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Not a whole worldwide mass audience.
Marc:Where else do you go internationally?
Guest:I'm trying to go back to Japan yeah yeah so that I hear that's crazy yeah it's I love the Japanese style is what I'm really into what makes it different it's more it's treated more like a sport oh yeah and it's a harder hitting but you know it's in there yeah that's what I do I'll hit you you'll know I'm here I'm not gonna hurt you you'll go home with your you know see your wife and kids but I'm gonna I'm gonna let the person in the front row go goddamn
Guest:I was there at the Newark show, Full Gear, where you fought Jun Akiyama.
Guest:I mean, obviously, you talk about you have a reverence for that style and want to go back there.
Guest:But it did feel like that was a very emotional moment for you to fight that guy.
Guest:Yeah, it was because I saw that guy wrestle when I was 14, 15.
Guest:And now I'm wrestling him...
Guest:in a ring in newark near home yeah and with a big company i was like yeah of course this is emotional i didn't think this yeah i thought i was gonna be done with wrestling after you know covet hit i thought other things too as a kid i thought i'd be dead by 26 because the way i was acting yeah you know what i mean i was just being a punk kid nothing crazy you know so just to have that moment and i'm facing right across the ring from a guy who i idolized i'm like this is trippy
Guest:We just kept calling each other out.
Guest:Well, I did on Twitter.
Guest:And I said, oh, this is my dream match.
Guest:This is my dream match.
Guest:And it caught wind again on Twitter.
Guest:And he was just, yeah, I'll do it.
Guest:And I was like, that's it?
Guest:They're like, yeah, he wants to come in.
Guest:I was like, it was crazy, man.
Guest:It was nuts.
Guest:At one point, I wanted to take off my boots and go, OK, I'm done.
Guest:Like, nothing's going to beat that.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:But I got a lot of people who
Guest:I don't know, man.
Guest:I don't look at me doing this for myself when I get frustrated or whatever.
Guest:With the business, everyone gets frustrated.
Guest:I just think of other people.
Guest:Not myself.
Guest:It's whatever with me.
Guest:I don't know if you notice.
Guest:I don't love myself too much, but enough.
Guest:But I think about my mother.
Guest:I'm a mama's boy.
Guest:I think about my father.
Guest:I think about all my friends.
Guest:So anytime I get all...
Guest:crazy and want to get out of this thing i think of everyone else same thing with akiyama i was like yeah i'm done i don't want to wrestle no more but he gave me confidence and he was like i believe that what he said he said i believe you'll be champion here and i was like oh shit i guess i gotta stay yeah and when you when you hit the wall though were you how was your health i mean were you like you know just fucked up
Marc:Oh, just, you know, mentally fucked up.
Guest:I talk about mental health a lot because to me, it's a real thing.
Guest:Sure, of course.
Guest:I mean, I'm on Zoloft, so I don't, you know what I mean?
Guest:I chill out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's a real thing, and I've seen it.
Guest:I've seen it in my family.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I've seen it with a couple of friends I've lost from suicide.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:mentally you know what i mean it's a it's a struggle but physically i feel better than i ever have because now i can afford ice baths and oh yeah you know what i mean and saunas before i couldn't ice bath really work yeah yeah it works for me just you know uh brings down the swelling on your body oh okay you know what i mean so i'll hop in the ice bath or after tonight you may see me with ice on my shoulders and my neck yeah nothing's wrong it's just to bring down the swelling yeah because after 21 years of
Guest:You know, getting beat up.
Guest:It hurts after a while.
Guest:I bet, yeah.
Guest:Like, was there a turning point or something that clicked in that made you go public with things about mental health and awareness?
Guest:Yeah, it was being part of AEW and then seeing the reach that this company has.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, well...
Guest:If I'm going to talk about it, might as well talk about it now and people will listen.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And I don't care if people take it and believe in mental health or whatever.
Guest:I really don't care.
Guest:The people I care about are the people that get it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm going through it.
Guest:And you probably hear back from people, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's a little weird.
Guest:It's a little weird because I don't.
Marc:You saved my life.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's not me.
Guest:I don't do things for that.
Guest:No, I know.
Guest:I just do it because it's the right thing to do.
Marc:Yeah, I get the same reaction with the podcast.
Marc:Like, I didn't get into it for that.
Marc:But when someone writes you an email and says, you know, I probably would have killed myself if it weren't for you.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:That gets me.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:That gets me.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't.
Guest:My mother says this to me all the time.
Guest:She goes, you like to give.
Guest:She goes, you like to give out love.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you never like to take it in.
Guest:She goes, that's the Irish in you.
Guest:I'm Irish in Puerto Rico.
Guest:My father's side always gets the bad rep when I do something wrong.
Guest:And they're both still around?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yep, they're both around.
Guest:Yeah, man, they're happy.
Guest:They come to matches?
Guest:Yeah, they come when we're in New York, yeah.
Guest:My father just sits there in amazement.
Guest:Yeah, oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, because he was always there for me, my dad.
Guest:But he was tough.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:He always wanted me to get out at some point and get a regular job and all that.
Guest:But he was always there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Always there to do things for me.
Guest:He must be impressed.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, man, he says he's proud of me, and I look at him and go, oh, okay, cool.
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:I did it.
Guest:Yeah, I guess so.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Do you feel like you're getting better at taking the love since you have a huge fan base now?
Guest:No, no, I don't.
Guest:I don't.
Guest:There's been nights where I'll be in the hotel room after, like, a match, and everyone's loving it.
Guest:That's why I got rid of Twitter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I don't even want to hear the praise.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because to me, this is not a big deal.
Guest:I'm doing what I wanted to do since I was nine.
Marc:What's your reaction to praise?
Marc:What does it make you feel?
Guest:I just don't feel good.
Guest:I feel uncomfortable.
Guest:Because to me, like I said, I'm doing something I've wanted to do since I was nine.
Guest:I'm not doing anything special.
Guest:I'm just living my dream.
Guest:But if you want to take this journey with me, cool.
Guest:Yeah, sometimes praise is hard to believe.
Guest:yes it is very hard very hard to believe especially when you know some of the dumb shit you've done in the past you're like what yeah exactly so yeah no yeah i just don't i don't like it because i don't do things for praise yeah yeah i do it because i either a want to do it or b it's the right but it's nice to be appreciated yeah no it definitely is when my mom does or people close to me yeah when the people close to me are appreciative that's what it means oh good all right well it's great talking to you
Guest:All right, I guess we're done.
Guest:He's kicking me out already.
Guest:There it is.
Guest:You guys got busy stuff to do.
Guest:We just slept sitting on a couch.
Guest:I fight, dog.
Guest:It ain't nothing busy, really.
Guest:My first live wrestling show.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Dude, you're going to have a blast.
Guest:I'm excited.
Guest:You're going to have a blast.
Guest:Get ready for that Young Bucks match, man.
Guest:Watch those crazy guys go.
Guest:Great talking to you.
Thank you.
Marc:Well, what I found is that specifically I kept trying to picture these guys, you know, like, you know, next to, you know, like a sports locker room.
Marc:They're different personalities.
Marc:And it's like they're not anything like them.
Marc:And they're more like me.
Marc:Like, you know, you talk to all these wrestlers and stuff.
Marc:They're definitely show business people.
Marc:Whereas like, you know, and they know that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So whatever the natural condescension would be on behalf of an MMA fighter or a football player in that situation, which I'm not even sure would happen.
Marc:But it's like they're not aspiring to any of that.
Guest:Right.
Marc:This is this is wrestling.
Marc:This is a big show.
Marc:This is the circus.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, you guys, you know, you're fighting for something else.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, you're doing something entirely different.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Well, we got to really see this when we, after doing the interviews, we went down to the production area, basically what you would call backstage in any other environment.
Guest:And you could, you know, it was show business.
Guest:You know, you walk through, there was a makeup room, there was a seamstress room.
Marc:It seems just from sewing, and the racks of costumes, because I saw that jacket that what's-his-name was wearing?
Marc:Oh, Claudio, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Claudio was wearing this amazing jacket, and it was on the rack, and I'm like, oh, it's DKNY.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know if I could wear it, but I thought, like, yeah, just take it.
Marc:Just take the jacket.
Guest:Just walk out with it.
Guest:It'd be so funny if they're like, excuse me, you're wearing Claudio's jacket.
Guest:No, no, I came with this.
Guest:This is mine.
Marc:Yeah, I like it, yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And they're all just sort of hanging around and, you know, different points of preparation.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, what's interesting is like we'd walk past somebody and I'd point out to Mark like, hey, that's that guy Pac.
Guest:He's that guy you saw in that match.
Guest:And you're
Guest:He's just a guy wearing a beanie and, you know, walking around.
Guest:But you could tell that he's this, like, squat dude with giant calves.
Marc:Giant.
Marc:Giant other ones.
Marc:What are these top ones?
Marc:Oh, the quads?
Marc:Yeah, giant quads.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, well, I mean, I watched him on TV, and he was menacing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then I looked at him in the corridor.
Marc:I'm like, that guy?
Marc:That's the guy?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, some people, like, appear larger.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's only a couple giants who are real giants.
Guest:Real giants.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We saw, we saw, we saw, basically there were like three guys who were over seven feet tall.
Marc:And when one was in the ring, you're like, oh, that guy has to, he has to lose.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Right.
Marc:To beat the giant.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:It's David and Goliath's story.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they didn't, what was interesting was that was a tag team match.
Guest:So the, the, uh, the guy who was not the giant in his tag team, he was the one who got the pin, right?
Guest:Like he got pinned.
Guest:So you were able to protect your giant, right?
Guest:You don't want your giant losing all the time because then it's like, what's the point of having a giant, right?
Guest:But the guys who he was fighting, which are two smaller guys like my size, right?
Guest:The jungle boy and the guy named Hook, they flipped him, right?
Guest:They flipped him and flipped him out of the ring.
Guest:And I got a big, huge reaction from the crowd because you actually took down the giant.
Guest:And then once the giant was out of the way, you could pin the other guy.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:That's the way that worked.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that's the thing about watching it is that like, you know, that this is completely collaborative.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Is that like, you know, anything that's going to, you know, win or lose a move, they're both in on it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, they, and, and you're, you're only as good as your opponent lets you look.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like there's a term they use called sandbagging, which is when someone doesn't want to cooperate.
Guest:And so you try to do the move and they like don't help you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it's a verboten thing.
Guest:Like you're not supposed to sandbag your opponent.
Guest:You could get really everybody could get really hurt.
Guest:That's why.
Guest:No, for sure.
Guest:And in fact, there's this old carny wrestling thing that if two wrestlers met.
Guest:they would give each other the softest handshakes, like a barely touched hand.
Guest:And that was like a code between like a fraternal code of like, I'm soft.
Guest:I take care of you.
Guest:I'm a light worker.
Guest:And there's this pride that a lot of these guys take of like, I've never hurt anybody.
Guest:Like certain wrestlers, especially older ones who've retired, and they retire and they go, you'll never find anybody who went to the hospital because of me.
Guest:You'll never find any injury, long-term injury that happened because of me.
Guest:That's a pride point.
Marc:What was funny about you and your experience of it as somebody who likes it is that...
Marc:You know, as much as you love it, it's funny because there is a controlled emotion thing where, you know, you were like, oh, that looks sharp.
Marc:I don't want when they threw him on the table.
Guest:I don't like when they do moves that look like they could get really hurt.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Because you got like obsessed with the metal part of the table that was like, oh, look, it hurt his back.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Or else like, you know, like when they go out of the ring and you're like, that's not good.
Guest:I don't like the bumps on the floor.
Guest:Yeah, no, I don't.
Guest:And I know these guys, like, you know, what am I going to ever tell them?
Guest:They do this professionally.
Marc:But it's funny that part of the menace for you is like, you know, I really need it to stay manageable.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Don't do something where you could really get injured.
Guest:Like, I'm fine with it being fake.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But I also do react, like, even when it's, like, there are certain things where a guy will hit someone with a move, and it looks so vicious, and I will react as a fan, like, oh!
Guest:And if you watch the move on slow-mo on replay, you'd see how safe it was.
Guest:You'd see how they protect each other.
Marc:I guess that's when it's really good.
Marc:Yes, yes.
Marc:And things happen so quickly.
Marc:And those head slams, were they, you know, the pile drivers or whatever?
Guest:I mean, those
Guest:Those are crazy.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:And, yeah, again, you better trust your opponent to not actually drop you on your head.
Marc:And the women, there was a tag team women's match, and that was great, too.
Marc:I mean, they're flying around.
Marc:I get concerned, not unlike when I was on GLOW.
Marc:It's like, I hope nothing falls out.
Marc:I hope those pants stay on.
Guest:They're very careful.
Guest:I mean, like, I think in the history of watching wrestling, that's happened, I've seen on television, maybe three times.
Guest:Well, some guy almost pulled some guy's pants down yesterday.
Guest:That happens a lot.
Guest:Guys getting their pants pulled down when they're climbing ladders or whatever.
Guest:Just sports stuff.
Guest:Well, we should say, too, before the matches started, we were able to go to the catering area where Mark bountifully enjoyed their catering buffet.
Marc:It was good, man.
Marc:That guy is really, Tony's really doing, the food was good.
Marc:And I've been at a lot of catering situations for show business.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And that was a pretty good one.
Guest:And they were really, they were all in their kibbutzing.
Guest:Like it was a, it was, that was their place.
Guest:Like, and I asked some of the people who worked there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, is this home base?
Guest:Is this?
Guest:And they say, well, when the show starts, they tend to congregate around the screen to watch.
Guest:Well, there was that backstage area too, right?
Marc:In the catering, but there was also that other screen set up.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:In the loading bay.
Guest:In the loading bay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that was where they wound up being during the show.
Guest:But the catering stayed pretty full, right?
Guest:Right up until showtime.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And from, okay, so I was really keeping it together.
Guest:I don't think, I don't know if you realize this.
Guest:No, I knew that.
Marc:Because, I mean.
Marc:At all times, I was aware that, like.
Marc:It could have gotten embarrassing.
Marc:These are Brendan's guys here.
Guest:Well, right.
Guest:Especially with, there were, like, some legends there.
Guest:Like, some people who.
Guest:Sting.
Guest:Sting was there.
Guest:There was a guy.
Guest:I don't know if you noticed him.
Guest:He's kind of an older guy sitting, like, to the corner of the table.
Guest:And that guy is Jim Ross, who is, like, was the commentator on these things when I was a kid.
Guest:So, like, you know, another guy who's, like, the voice of my life.
Guest:Like, I've heard that guy my whole life.
Guest:The other giant, Paul White, who I actually did introduce myself to, who used to be known as The Big Show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was sitting right behind us while we were standing there talking to Cole Cabana.
Guest:So I just kind of felt I didn't want to be rude and not acknowledge him.
Guest:But I also, I just didn't want to go to any of these people.
Guest:Little kid mode.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And be like fanboying for them while they're trying to eat their food.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I also did think that some of the guys, when they did meet us in the hallway, were like,
Guest:Super nice.
Guest:That guy, Brody King, who was with the House of Black.
Marc:Yeah, that guy's nice.
Marc:He was super friendly.
Marc:It became this where's Tim Robinson thing.
Guest:It was very funny, yes.
Guest:So my thing was, if you've watched, I think you should leave the Tim Robinson sketch show.
Guest:Brody King is in the sketch about the calico cut pants, the one where the guy has piss on his pants and the other guy says, no, we have this website that has pants with two dots on them.
Guest:And then he's trying to get him to give money to the website.
Guest:And one of the tactics he has is he sends him a video of a wrestler screaming at him saying, if you don't give, I will kill you.
Guest:And it's this guy, Brody King.
Guest:And so when we were walking in the corridor there, we were meeting, you know, just bumping into people.
Guest:And I think he noticed you first, actually.
Guest:He said, hey, how's it going?
Guest:He shook your hand.
Guest:And then he turned to me because I'm standing next to you.
Guest:And I reached out and I said, hey, you got to give.
Guest:which is the kind of catch-eye of that sketch.
Guest:And he was like, oh, did you know Tim's going to be here?
Guest:And I was like, he's so excited.
Guest:And I was like, are you serious?
Guest:Tim Robinson's going to be here?
Guest:He's like, yeah.
Guest:And you know what?
Guest:I've never met the guy.
Guest:He's like, I'm in the show.
Guest:And Mark's like, yeah, I've never met him either.
Guest:We've been trying to get him on the show for months.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So then it became this little thing, especially we were out in the crowd and we saw Paul Walter Hauser.
Marc:He was right next to us.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And Ken Jeong.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Paul Walter Hauser is also in I Think You Should Leave.
Guest:So I made some joke to him about that show as well.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he said, oh, is Tim here?
Guest:And I said, yeah, look, there's a picture.
Guest:Brody and him finally met.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Showed him a picture that had come up on Twitter while the show was going on.
Guest:So then we go backstage again after the matches, and we saw that guy Brody, who was getting ready for his match.
Guest:It was going to happen on the taped show that they did.
Guest:And I said, did you meet Tim?
Guest:I saw you met Tim.
Guest:And he's like, yeah, did you guys meet him yet?
Guest:We're like, no, we haven't met him.
Guest:He's like, that's crazy.
Guest:Come on, you've got to go find Tim.
Yeah.
Guest:So we did finally meet Tim Robinson, which is a big highlight.
Guest:He'd meet me right away.
Guest:He's like, Marin.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:That was good.
Guest:Yeah, there were lots of people who were very friendly.
Guest:It was gracious of them to just let us kind of hang around.
Guest:That was another cool thing.
Guest:There were no evil eyes.
Guest:Nobody was like, what's this guy doing back here?
Marc:No.
Marc:It's such a huge operation.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, just the sort of weird chaos of it all, but knowing that they all know these moves, like that final match, and because I don't watch wrestling, you just sort of accept like, oh, yeah, there's ladders.
Marc:There's going to be ladders, two ladders in the ring.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Belts are hanging from the ceiling.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And, you know, they're going to be throwing them on the ladders.
Marc:They're going to be setting the ladders up on each other so they can throw guys on the ladders.
Marc:Guys are flying out of the ring.
Marc:They're going to break tables.
Yeah.
Marc:That's just it.
Guest:Well, within the context of the rules of that match, there have to be ladders so they can get up to the belts, right?
Guest:But what I always find funny, and it doesn't just happen in that match, but if there's an object in the ring, the guy's going to literally slam a dude on a workman's ladder, right?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:that's gonna hurt no matter what but there's a way they're gonna do it yeah like lessen the impact sure they're not prop ladders right right but so he's about there's this point where the guy's about to slam another dude on the ladder and there was a second ladder that was laying on the ground and had a leg kind of
Guest:pointing angularly right and so he kicked that out of the way so they do the move on to the other ladder and i'm like yeah you move that so you don't get hurt yeah but they're aware of it that's right but it's so funny it's like in the in the context of the thing they're trying to kill each other right and they're gonna murder him by driving him onto a ladder but like that that ladder would be too much murder yeah yeah yeah that could be really hurt
Marc:Yeah, no, I found it all engaging and moving.
Marc:I enjoyed it.
Marc:But I don't know, just by nature of me, in order for me to continue to enjoy it, I would have to get invested in it.
Guest:Well, I don't think you do that in any way in your life, really.
Guest:Like, I don't think there's anything where you're like, oh, I'm a diehard fan of this show and I have to watch it all the time, right?
Guest:Like, you will watch something if you're told it's good and you watch it and you say that was good, right?
Guest:So I don't think for you as a person...
Guest:anything like that matches up.
Guest:It's probably a reason, a big reason why you would never cared about watching sports because like the investment that it needs week to week for something that you don't, yeah, that you don't have a care about.
Guest:What I find productive for you about something like this is knowing that, um, you know, even at this stage of your life, you can take something in like this and be like, Oh, I totally get it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like there's, and it,
Guest:I don't know what else that would lead to, but I do think that kind of opens a door for you to things that, like, if somebody says, hey, why don't you go to this thing with me?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You can be like, yeah, maybe it's cool.
Marc:Well, that's the thing that I noticed, too.
Marc:The environment of it, even when those earlier matches are going on, everybody's sort of engaged the whole time.
Marc:The crowd is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, whether it's with the ring or not, you can sort of sit there and not be totally invested and still kind of be part of it.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, it's an afternoon or it's an evening.
Marc:You know, you're going to be there for a few hours.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right?
Marc:And people are just kind of hanging out.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And as soon as a music shifts or, you know, the lights go down or that...
Marc:Yeah, all the spectacle of it was, you know, it's kind of amazing, you know?
Guest:Did you come away from it with any particular people who you noticed and were like, that guy, that's a talent?
Marc:Well, I could see people that I could get sort of attached to the process of it.
Marc:Like, I guess that guy Danielson.
Marc:Is that his name?
Guest:Yeah, Brian Danielson.
Marc:Well, he seems interesting.
Marc:Like, you know, as a character, I could see like, I wonder what that guy's going to do, you know?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And some of them are just so kind of like...
Marc:It's classic.
Marc:It had a real hard rock vibe to it.
Marc:I said metal when I was talking to you, but it's a little less than metal.
Marc:It's not metal, right?
Marc:It's more like... It's more a Def Leppard.
Guest:I was going to say hair metal.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:It's like all that stuff is there, so you kind of get those same type of personalities.
Guest:Which is why Chris Jericho kind of fits so seamlessly into it.
Marc:Yeah, when he came out, yeah.
Marc:I mean, I could definitely see how you could get attached to certain characters.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:See, what I get more attached to is thinking this person is excellent at what they do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right?
Guest:And so I found it very interesting that when we were watching it in the house, you kind of pointed out some of the guys who I also consider to be like high-level athletes and performers at this stuff.
Guest:Like when those Mexican luchadors are in the ring and you're like, wow, this looks like a dance all of a sudden.
Guest:Or that guy packed.
Guest:It's almost like the way he carries himself just as a presence is going to draw you to him.
Guest:And then he starts...
Marc:taking the moves and he sells the moves really well but also like you know just the fact that like you know they they're doing double flips out of the ring onto people yeah and that's crazy very crazy yeah and like it you have to be sort of in awe of that like you would be in awe of watching a gymnast yes and they're doing it all over the place yeah
Marc:It's just like you're watching one thing, and then all of a sudden there's a guy in the air about to crash onto another dude.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, and the match that we watched at the event last night was the six-man match with the ladders involved.
Guest:And I looked up at the clock when it was starting, and it was 9.45, and the show goes off the air at 10.
Guest:So I said, oh, shit.
Guest:They got 15 minutes.
Guest:This is going to be a sprint.
Guest:Like these guys that, you know, because I, okay, if you do a ladder match in wrestling, you need some time to develop that match.
Marc:To get the ladders in there.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:You have to do the build to the point where now we get the ladders.
Guest:That's got to be like five minutes in or so, whatever.
Guest:And then you've got to build around the idea of, can the guy get to the belts by climbing the ladder?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Of course he's not, he's going to have some false...
Guest:Tries because, you know, the other guy's not beat up enough.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And so I looked at the time of 15 minutes.
Guest:That's like at least five minutes shy of what a match like this is going to take.
Guest:And so these guys are just going to go nonstop.
Guest:And it was just it was 15 straight minutes of crazy action.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you said that that was kind of a treat to be on free TV.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:You usually have to pay for something.
Guest:For a ladder match.
Guest:Right.
Guest:For a ladder match, you pay.
Guest:Or it's something that they're not going to do too often.
Guest:So you know, oh, okay, I'm going to see it now.
Guest:I'm not going to see one of these for a while.
Marc:But also, I think one of the best moments was really like...
Marc:When they have these opening matches, right, leading up to the regular guys.
Marc:And you told me that some of these guys are just local wrestlers.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:So like that dude from L.A., you know, you said they pay him for the night.
Guest:Yeah, usually get about 800 bucks or something like that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, and he does the match that no one.
Marc:It's not that they don't care, but it's just, you know, it's the opening act.
Guest:It's a preliminary match.
Marc:Opening act shit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then, like, after everything's all said and done, you were hungry.
Marc:We'd go back to catering.
Marc:The food's all gone.
Marc:It's out on the table.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Getting ready to put away.
Marc:And then the guy who was in one of the opening matches is, like, filling up a takeout thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Cookies and stuff.
Marc:Yeah, and some shrimps and things.
Guest:Take it home, yeah.
Marc:To take it home.
Marc:But I'm like, that's...
Marc:That show business.
Marc:It's like he made his 800 bucks.
Marc:He's not part of the thing, but he's in town.
Marc:He's probably going to go home and have that food tomorrow.
Marc:I mean, I know exactly what that is.
Marc:Even now I go do shows and, you know, I only have two things on my rider, you know, like a bag of cashews and the Xevia soda.
Marc:So like when I'm on the road, I'm like, I'm taking these cashews.
Guest:Oh, when we went to, when you did your HBO show and you had all that Russ and Daughter stuff, you're like, everybody's got to take this stuff.
Guest:We got to, we got to have, you know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Don't let this go to waste.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But it's just, that to me has always been the nature of show business is that, you know, you do the thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then you're backstage again.
Marc:And it's sort of like, all right.
Marc:So like, where, where's my jacket?
Marc:Right.
Guest:Well, it was funny because we went backstage kind of in between their tapings.
Guest:They were about to do a taping for the show that airs on Friday after the live Wednesday show.
Guest:And so we took that as a chance to make our exit.
Guest:And, you know, we were leaving.
Guest:But the backstage, because there's still another hour of taping matches and stuff.
Guest:They were still vibing.
Guest:It still had a real kind of, you know, active in the moment.
Guest:uh mode to it and my god like i couldn't believe that one we were just standing there talking i think it was like we were talking to one of the pr people as we were leaving that luchador with the his name is penta but he has like more skeletal yeah looking makeup and and mask yeah he took a beating and then he just like walked right by us like walked like i'm like how's he not in the hospital
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, that is all part of the illusion.
Marc:I mean, obviously, like, you know, you've said before and, you know, they're beating themselves up, but they know how to do this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, Chris Jericho said it to you about how like you do it enough times to you kind of get a body callous.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I buy that.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But ultimately, all in all, yeah, very engaging, you know, and I was open to it.
Marc:And, you know, I found it to be entertaining and emotional.
Marc:And I loved the idea that they are my show business brothers.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And sisters.
Guest:I mean, really, like, I will say, like, I don't want to say, like, I had a secret motivation to this.
Guest:But it was kind of like, I did have a kind of mentality of, like, Ferris Bueller's day off.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You watch that movie and you think it's about this kid who's fucking around and just wants to take off his school.
Guest:And then it gets to the end and you realize, no, he wanted to do this for his friend.
Guest:He wanted his friend to see the world and see that things were cool.
Guest:And I've always kind of thought, especially as we've talked about you doing other things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I knew that so many things were pointless because it's like, no, Mark doesn't engage with things on like a fan level.
Guest:He's not going to watch, you know, a Star Wars show week to week and talk about it.
Marc:Sometimes music, sometimes music.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Guest:But like, you know, and yeah, you go to concerts and that, but that's a thing.
Guest:Like it's one time and it ends.
Guest:And I said like, you know...
Guest:Look, this is a thing I've been into my whole life.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm not into it from the level of like, oh, I believe it's real or I believe like I'm into it because it's what I think is good show business.
Guest:Like I really don't think I ever would have gotten into any kind of entertainment if I had not been a wrestling fan.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because I integrated what I learned from watching it from a show perspective.
Guest:What were they presenting?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How is this happening on a week to week basis?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think it was basically wrestling and SNL were the two things that kind of formed in my brain around what is entertainment?
Guest:How is this not just, you know, fake stories that get put on a screen, right?
Marc:Yeah, and they're similar.
Marc:Like one is the, it's the id and the ego of show business.
Guest:That's interesting.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:You know, wrestling is this ongoing id of show business.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It's wild.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But thanks for taking me.
Guest:Yeah, thanks for doing it.
Guest:And thanks for, you know, anybody from AEW is listening.
Guest:Thanks for hosting us and being willing to talk to us.
Guest:And to me, it was not just fun.
Guest:Like, I have fun at wrestling matches.
Guest:But it was a new experience for me.
Marc:Oh, to be backstage?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:To be there with you.
Guest:Oh, thanks.
Guest:I've never really been there with somebody who...
Guest:didn't follow it or didn't know it but I didn't seem bored did I no I wasn't I thought I was I had a fun time with it and I just had a fun time knowing that oh this is you know somebody experiencing it for the first time like I don't know if you've ever had that of like you know somebody maybe like you're like oh you're gonna listen you've never listened to this record oh yeah I love it yeah and you're just sitting there like huh
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I was kind of aware of that for a minute, but then I was like, you know, I'm into this.
Marc:I'm OK.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You're just like, whatever.
Marc:And the other thing was like so many people recognize me from Glow.
Marc:I realize like those are my people.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Like they all watch Glow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Like I would be very surprised if a wrestling fan didn't watch Glow.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It was like it was a high recognition thing from a very specific thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, you know, they had asked me when we were setting up, you know, going to the show and all the preparations.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They said, does Mark want to get involved?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And what get involved means is, you know, like, is a bad guy will come over to you and like, you know, maybe push around.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You get to like give him the stink eye or whatever.
Guest:And I said...
Guest:Let's take it easy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Next time.
Guest:He's never.
Guest:I was just going to ask you.
Marc:If we ever went back, would you get involved?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, there was a point when, you know, Max was up there doing his heel business and he brings up Freddie Prince and he brings up Ken Jeong.
Marc:And I'm like, I'm right here, dude.
Marc:Take your shot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I met you backstage.
Guest:I can handle it.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:I think that probably was my fault by saying no.
Guest:They probably were like, don't involve Marc Maron in the act.
Marc:He doesn't want to be.
Marc:Yeah, next time I got to be part of it.
Guest:Well, Paul Walter Hauser took a guitar to the head last night after we left.
Marc:Oh, he did?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's right.
Marc:He told us it was going to happen.
Marc:He brought his Golden Globe with him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was the deal.
Guest:And he was going to hit a guy with the Golden Globe.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then the other guy was going to crack a guitar over his head.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, no, I'm game.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Yeah, we'll do it next time.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Sounds good.
Marc:All right, buddy.
Marc:All right.
Marc:That's a wrap on Wrestling with Mark.
Marc:We hope you enjoyed this as much as we did.
Marc:And if you came on board as a Fulmarin subscriber because you're a wrestling fan, we hope you'll stick around.
Marc:As a thank you for joining us, starting next week, we'll have a wrestling wrap-up show on Fridays,
Marc:Brendan and Chris Lopresto are going to review AEW Dynamite, talk about classic wrestling stories, interview some people from the wrestling world, and they tell me I'll be in on the action too somehow.
Marc:I don't know how, but I think they kind of had to.
Marc:To be honest with you, they had to at least tell me they were going to bring me in somehow, right?
Marc:I'm part of this, aren't I?
Marc:But either way, it's a special bonus on the full Marin starting next Friday.
Marc:But don't worry, we're still putting out our regular bonus material every week.
Marc:We got producer cuts coming up next week.
Marc:Another Ask Mark Anything in two weeks.
Marc:More of our Morning Sedition miniseries.
Marc:More movie talk.
Marc:More archive deep dives and whatever else we can think of.
Marc:All right?
Marc:All right.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:I'll talk to you next time.
Thank you.
Marc:Boomer lives!