BONUS Good Morning, Geniuses! - Dan Pashman
Guest:Good morning, geniuses.
Guest:Philosopher kings and queens.
Guest:Working class heroes, progressive utopians.
Guest:I'm Mark Maron.
Guest:It's six past the hour here on Air America Radio.
Guest:And this is Morning Sedition.
Morning Sedition.
Marc:We had a debate here in the studio.
Marc:Important stuff going on here in the studio.
Marc:Dan Pashman has a stance that I'm not sure I agree with, yet he will defend it.
Marc:We were discussing what we were going to have for breakfast, and the idea of the omelet came up, and then there was a cheese problem.
Marc:He's got a cheese problem.
Marc:He says that the place that we get our breakfast doesn't always have such good cheese.
Marc:And this is a guy that says, I don't want a Philly cheesesteak sandwich if it has cheese on it, which is the standard.
Marc:So now – but here's the – it gets larger because we went with Dan Pashman to the Philly Cheesesteak Place pass.
Marc:And it was good.
Marc:But he said, well, if that's all that city has to offer, then I'm not down with it.
Marc:But then it became a bigger problem about bread.
Guest:Well, this is something I feel very strongly about, Mark.
Guest:And I am a bit of a sandwich connoisseur.
Guest:I'll be honest with you.
Guest:I've put a lot of study and research and thought into the creation and manufacture of sandwiches.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And I'm quite confident that you already have an inferior sandwich before you've taken a bite if you have hot things on the inside with cold bread on the outside.
Guest:If you're going to have hot eggs and cheese or a burger or a hot dog or anything, whatever you're doing, you've got to heat the bread.
Guest:Back up, back up.
Marc:This is crazy.
Marc:You're talking crazy because you're denying the power of fresh bread.
Marc:If you have a fresh roll, all right, that's really nice and fresh and soft, like a bulky roll, as they call them in Boston or whatever they call them here.
Marc:A Kaiser roll, yeah.
Marc:And you put the egg sandwich on that.
Marc:Toasting a Kaiser roll that's really fresh, it's wrong.
Marc:I think you're wrong here.
Guest:I understand what you're saying, and I will grant you that in a situation where you have a small amount of bread and a large amount of hot filling, such as your corned beef example.
Marc:Well, that was an example the listeners didn't hear.
Guest:Fresh dry bread.
Marc:Let's say you go to the Carnegie Deli and you order a hot corned beef sandwich with switched cheese.
Marc:The corned beef comes out of the steam plate, out of the steam table.
Marc:You slice it up hot.
Marc:You put the cheese on it.
Marc:It melts itself.
Guest:I understand.
Marc:And then you put it on a fresh bread.
Marc:a fresh piece of rye bread.
Guest:Right, but if you're talking about one scrambled egg and one slice of cheese and a big, fat, bulky roll where your sandwich is like 80% bread, if that bread is not heated, then that's not a good sandwich.
Marc:The bulky roll squishes up like it gets all soft and it meets the egg and cheese.
Marc:It meets it.
Marc:Do you understand?
Marc:If you have a little toasted crust, because you grill a bulky roll, there's no saying it doesn't just turn hard and brown.
Marc:I've been there, and it dries it out.
Marc:It dries out the fresh roll.
Guest:You can microwave it.
Guest:It doesn't even have to be hot.
Guest:Oh, not microwave.
Guest:No microwave.
Guest:No microwave.
Guest:You can't microwave anything.
Guest:You call yourself a sandwich connoisseur and you use the word microwave?
Guest:What's up with you?
Guest:I would not microwave.
Guest:I would toast it.
Guest:I'm saying if you want to maintain the squishiness.
Guest:I agree.
Guest:I would never microwave bread.
Marc:No, you can't microwave almost anything.
Marc:There's nothing you should microwave unless you have to.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:A microwave is an emergency situation because if you microwave anything, it just turns into hard crap.
Marc:Something goes wrong with it.
Marc:Microwaves screw with food on a molecular level.
Marc:It ruins it.
Guest:You guys come to my house.
Guest:I cook you a Dan Pashman patented grilled egg and cheese sandwich, and you will see the light.
Marc:I'm sure it would be good, Dan Pashman.
Marc:But what I'm saying to you is you started this argument with this blanket statement that you cannot have hot stuff on a cold bread, and you've made a concession.
Guest:The only concession I'll give you is corned beef, and that's because there's so much corned beef and so little bread that it will warm the bread while keeping it fresh, but that won't happen in most sandwich ratios.
Marc:See how people just naturally spin?
Marc:It's not just a Republican thing.
Guest:You see what's happening here?
Marc:After a certain point with these guys, these guys that, you know, who you grow up wanting their approval.
Marc:And when you get it, it still feels kind of good.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, it's not nothing to make Howard Stern laugh.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And it's also not nothing like I saw Letterman at the store.
Marc:I don't know, six months, a year ago, he came to see me with some people.
Marc:And we were just outside talking.
Marc:And I made him laugh.
Marc:And it's that Letterman laugh, you know, that you could only hope to get on the show to try to get.
Marc:And now we're just having a casual conversation, but it has the same effect.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, like, look at David Letterman's laughing at what I said.
Marc:Has it occurred to you that some people feel that way about you?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Yeah, I guess maybe.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I never think about that.
Marc:Really.
Marc:I don't think about where I stand and how I'm.
Marc:It always is interesting to me that people are like, yeah, I was afraid to talk to you or you made me nervous.
Marc:Like people are like, you're the only comic at the store when I was younger that I was scared of.
Marc:I'm like, why?
Marc:What was I doing?
Guest:Well, I mean, you could be intimidating in your own way, especially 30 years ago.
Marc:Well, that's right.
Marc:Yeah, let's talk about Air America.
Marc:Is it 30 years already?
Marc:Can't be.
Guest:Air America wasn't 30 years ago, but the early days of your comedy, the anger-fueled early days of your comedy career.
Marc:Yeah, but this was not those people.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:These were young people.
Guest:But, like, I remember a time at Air America in Morning Sedition when I made you laugh, and it felt very good.
Guest:I was like, I made more.
Guest:laugh for real like you were getting you know what it was you were getting ready to be on tough crowd with colin quinn which you did pretty regularly so we were trying to get material going yes and and they had given you like yeah the topic the topics and one of them was there was i don't remember what this overall conversation but the you you said um what's a pickup line yeah if you're trying to pick up your cousin yeah this was the assignment that had come from the producers really and i just turned that was the setup yes i we're in the office i was like after the show we would always like hang out and i just turned i was like
Guest:Hey, you coming to Thanksgiving?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you laughed.
Guest:And I was like, wow, I made Mark laugh.
Guest:Did I use it?
Guest:I don't think so.
Marc:It was pretty good.
Marc:But it still made me feel good that I made you laugh.
Marc:Well, I try to think about Air America.
Marc:All I remember is that first thing, and it's sort of like that classic moment, like when that first week probably we were there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:at the old Air America.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And you were putting that packet together of the news.
Marc:That was like the whole first year for me.
Marc:Yeah, it's crunching the news.
Guest:Yes, it was called the morning briefing or something like that.
Guest:And that was a big part of what I was hired to do was that like, and this was earlier in the age of the internet and smartphones.
Guest:And so like it was still useful that I would, I had the key to the office and I would get in there at one or two o'clock in the morning
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:And I would read all the news and put together this big document of links of the top stories with also like sort of additional context.
Guest:Maybe there'd be sort of like links to research from months ago.
Guest:Like, oh, this connects to this other thing that happened.
Guest:And that would go out to all the hosts and all the producers for the day.
Guest:And that was the first two or three hours of my day alone in the middle of the night.
Guest:At four o'clock in the morning, you and Brendan and the rest of the group would show up.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then I just remember the first time you put that on my desk.
Marc:And I don't know.
Marc:It's like, what is this?
Guest:It was like a three inch thick binder.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I was like, I got to know all of this.
Guest:I can't figure this out.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's when we were like, okay, maybe we need to just like manage the flow of papers going to Mark.
Marc:What, I got to remember this?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What the fuck is this?
Marc:I thought it was like college.
Marc:Like it was like there was going to be a test.
Guest:Well, I think, I mean, you came in feeling a certain amount of pressure, obviously.
Marc:Dude, I had an American Democracy for Dummies book.
Marc:Like I came in there.
Marc:And I'm like, I don't know if I'm the guy for the job.
Marc:I barely know how the system works.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then you and Brendan, you guys were like you with your Haldeman haircut with your flat top.
Marc:I used to have very short hair.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was like a classic crew cut.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And Brendan, you know, everyone's in their dockers or whatever.
Marc:And I'm like, what the fuck is happening?
Marc:These are guys that actually kept their shit together and seemed to be disciplined around stuff.
Marc:I expected it to be weirder.
Marc:Yeah, well, I didn't expect it to be weirder, but I just didn't know.
Marc:I couldn't get a handle on everything at first, and I was just this volatile thing.
Guest:But to your credit, you at least put in the effort to learn a lot and get better at hosting a show, which not every host who was hired to host a show in Air America cared enough to do.
Marc:Well, I didn't know, like, I didn't, I don't want to suck.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I didn't go, I didn't walk in there because I'd done enough comedy to where I knew what morning radio was.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then, but there were just weird things that once, eventually you guys convinced me that, you know, the narrative of day-to-day political news is going to sort of unfold connectively
Marc:Connectedly.
Marc:Like, you know, like once you get into the threads that are happening.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You just got to keep up.
Marc:You don't have to know every nuance of legislation.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You just at that time, it was just like Tom DeLay, bad guy.
Marc:You're just riding the wave at that point.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Karl Rove, bad, bad, bad, bad guy.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Bromowitz.
Marc:What was his name?
Marc:Oh, Jack Abramoff.
Guest:Abramoff.
Guest:I remember some of these names.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That guy's the evil guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Abramoff.
Marc:So then I'm like, okay, I can lock into the villains.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But then it just became about like not stuttering too much or you knowing too much.
Marc:And like I got, yeah, I mean, I figured it out, I guess.
Marc:But I was pretty fucking nervous.
Marc:Understandably.
Marc:And then we had, you know, Riley and Ellicott, you know, Riley just like, ugh.
Yeah.
Marc:You know, just doing the news part.
Guest:I will say in recent years, in reflecting, I felt more compassion towards him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I always liked him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, but I also like looking at things from his perspective, like...
Guest:I don't think that I understood then what a big deal he and Wayne Gilman, our newsman, were in New York's black community.
Marc:Yeah, and then we just come in like a bunch of entitled white colonizers into the black AM station.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Was it B-U-R?
Marc:What was it?
Guest:What were the call letters?
Guest:No, B-U-R.
Guest:It was L-I-B.
Guest:L-I-B.
Marc:1190 AM, W-L-I-B.
Marc:And we walk in there, and there was definitely attention to it, even though we thought we were on the good side of things.
Marc:Like, you could never get away with the optics of that now.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I don't know what the deal was or who the deal was cut with that we would take up the – what was it?
Marc:The AM side of that?
Marc:Because it was still – or was it – did it have an FM side or we just took over?
Guest:I think we just took it over.
Guest:I mean it had – it was not doing – it wasn't flourishing.
Guest:The station wasn't flourishing in the way it had during its heyday.
Guest:But still like I don't think we had an appreciation for how influential it had been and how important these guys were and how important this station was in parts of New York City.
Marc:I mean, I kind of felt it.
Marc:I always felt the weirdness of it.
Marc:Because, like, you know, after we'd go off the air, Riley would go back into the offices and, you know, run around like this, you know, Prince Charming, just, you know, bouncing around, flirting, talking to everybody.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But I don't know how they felt.
Marc:But I know Gelman was like, he didn't give a fuck.
Marc:Like, after a certain point.
Marc:He was more game.
Marc:Yeah, you know, he just had a great time.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But I remember right at the get-go,
Marc:I decided to have an open conversation about the N-word.
Marc:Do you remember that?
Marc:No.
Marc:And I said it.
Marc:Ooh.
Marc:And Riley, I just... Because I'm like, can't we just talk?
Marc:It was one of those kind of... I mean, I knew it was loaded, but the fact that I was in that station with that history, with that guy, and I'm like, let's talk about the N-word, and I say it.
Marc:And I just saw him like...
Marc:Seize up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it was crazy.
Marc:It was a lesson learned because that was when he told me he got a weird message on his cell phone that someone was going to shoot me.
Marc:That was his way of handling it.
Marc:Don't just maybe go to HR or go to Franken and say, you can't have this guy saying that shit.
Marc:No, you know, scare the fuck out of the guy.
Marc:He says, yeah, one of my old cell phones, I got a message that said, don't stand too close to Marin.
Marc:So now I got to go to Franken and I got to go to, what's his name, Cohen.
Marc:And I'm like, there's a death threat.
Marc:What do I do?
Marc:And they're like, well, okay, we'll investigate.
Marc:And it was all bullshit.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It was just, you know, Riley's way of dealing with it.
Marc:And I get it.
Marc:There's probably a better way to deal with it because I was scared for a long time.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And he never copped to it until I kind of realized like, oh.
Marc:I mean, what does that mean on an old cell phone?
Marc:I got a message from a number I couldn't identify.
Marc:Like, okay.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:But that was like at the beginning.
Marc:That was before we moved offices.
Marc:So, you know, that was a boundary he put up.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What do you remember about the early days that really stands out?
Marc:I mean... Because you probably have the same experience any of us do.
Marc:It was like it happened in almost waking consciousness.
Marc:It's like this weird period of time where we were all...
Marc:So compromised because of the hours that it seemed like a dream half the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was also like, you know, for me, like I was in my, my, let's see, I was 27 when we launched.
Marc:You're a little older than Brendan?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Two or three years older.
Guest:Um, but I was, you know, I was still in my twenties.
Guest:I had just moved to New York for the job.
Guest:I had just arrived in New York like a month before we launched.
Guest:From New Jersey?
Guest:I was in Chicago.
Guest:Oh, that's right.
Guest:In Chicago for a few years.
Guest:What were you doing there?
Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I moved there after college.
Guest:I wanted to move to a bigger city than Boston.
Guest:Eat meat and drink?
Guest:I wanted to go to a bigger city than Boston, and I didn't want to go to New York.
Guest:But you grew up in Jersey, right?
Guest:Yeah, I grew up in the New York area, but I was never in love with New York.
Guest:I wanted to go somewhere new and different.
Marc:What about Boston?
Marc:Where'd you live in Boston?
Guest:Well, I went to Tufts.
Marc:Yeah, that's right.
Marc:Yeah, by Davis Square, right.
Guest:And then I stayed there for two more years.
Guest:My last year in Boston, I lived in the city, like on Boylston Street.
Guest:And Boston's great.
Guest:My mom's family's from there.
Guest:But it's very small.
Guest:It's a little provincial.
Guest:I wanted a bigger city.
Guest:So I moved to Chicago.
Guest:And I loved the city, but my career was going nowhere.
Guest:What were you doing there?
Guest:I moved there, and a week later it was 9-11.
Guest:So there were no jobs.
Guest:I got a job at a temp agency.
Guest:I was doing data entry temp work.
Guest:I was once the employee of the month at the data entry temp agency, which was quite a bittersweet achievement.
Guest:Good for you.
Marc:You're an example.
Guest:The funny thing was that I only spent half the day working on the job and half the day writing the great American novel or whatever the fuck I thought I was doing.
Guest:How'd that come out?
Guest:It didn't.
Guest:But I still was employee of the month working half-time because everyone else who had the job was like, you know, functionally brain dead.
Marc:That's something to hold on to.
Guest:Did you tell your parents?
Guest:I'm going to add that to my LinkedIn profile.
Guest:So how'd you get the job at Air America?
Guest:Well, I heard that there was this new, I knew I wanted to work in radio.
Guest:That was what I was trying to do.
Guest:And I heard that there was this liberal talk radio station starting.
Guest:And originally the funders behind it was this rich liberal donor couple, the Drobneys, who were based in Chicago.
Guest:And I was in Chicago.
Guest:Forgot about the Drobneys.
Guest:So I was like, oh, it's going to be in Chicago.
Guest:This is perfect.
Guest:And I somehow through just hustle, I got a phone number to someone like their right hand man or someone who was kind of like working on putting this together.
Guest:And every couple of months I would sneak into like the boiler room of the place where I was temping where I could get a phone and be discreet and call and be like, what's happening with the liberal?
Guest:Is it happening?
Guest:Are you taking applications?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they say, no, no, call back in a couple months.
Guest:Finally, they said, okay, send us your application.
Guest:And they said, but it's going to be in New York.
Guest:We decided it's going to be in New York.
Guest:I was coming home for the holidays, December 2003.
Guest:I went for an interview with Dave Logan and Shelly Lewis, two of the execs who were putting it together.
Guest:I remember Shelly.
Guest:I'm trying to remember.
Guest:And he was like an old FM radio guy.
Guest:I remember Dave Logan.
Guest:And they offered me the job and I packed my bags and in February I left Chicago and moved to New York and in March we started.
Guest:I can't remember the Drobneys.
Guest:Were they ever around?
Guest:I don't think I met them.
Marc:I think they basically put some money in early but handed it off before it even started.
Marc:Because I remember the name.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like, I'm trying to remember people.
Marc:Like, you know, I think I remember Logan.
Guest:Well, honestly, what I remember, because I had been sending in a lot of applications to radio jobs.
Guest:I didn't have it.
Guest:I didn't think I had a ton of experience.
Guest:I had done a few odd jobs in media and radio.
Guest:Um...
Guest:But I sent in my application and she was like, well, you certainly have the experience for this job.
Guest:And I felt really good hearing that because I was like, oh, I do?
Great.
Marc:Did you call for the reference?
Marc:I was employee of the month at the call center.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:If you need any data entry, done.
Guest:I mean, I was so excited.
Guest:But also, you know, when you're in your 20s and it's like your job is your whole life.
Guest:I was single.
Guest:I had just moved to New York.
Guest:I had a few friends in the city.
Guest:But, like, I didn't know many people.
Guest:And I was at work 12 hours a day.
Guest:But I was happy.
Guest:Like, you guys were my friends as well as my job.
Marc:Well, it was crazy because it was such, like, and we talk about this a lot because I saw Kalo yesterday.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I went out for dinner.
Guest:Me and Brendan and Kayla and our wives all went out for dinner a few weeks.
Guest:We're still in touch.
Marc:Yeah, of course.
Marc:Well, I mean, it's sort of like a foxhole bonding situation.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Because you're in the middle of the night, and you got to go home a little earlier, right?
Marc:Because I started earlier.
Marc:I remember I'd be in the car by three, but nothing is happening in the world.
Marc:When you're in that crew.
Marc:So it was me, you, Brendan, Larson, and then random writers from the group.
Marc:And I don't know, who was the PA at the beginning?
Marc:I can't even remember.
Marc:Did we have one at the beginning?
Marc:I don't think so.
Marc:But there's nobody around and no one seemed to give a shit.
Marc:The bulk of what anyone cared about on Air America was happening as we were leaving.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It felt like it always felt like.
Marc:But we were we were the liveliest show.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:We were doing the best work.
Guest:We were the show that everyone who worked there liked the best.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But it just sort of it felt like we missed the day.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Like everything that was happening during the day, we were already napping and trying to function at home in our lives.
Marc:It was our it was the whole world.
Marc:So I guess my point is, of course we bonded one way or the other.
Marc:You get to know people pretty well in that way.
Marc:And I just remember in that original LIB studio, it's like because I would get there like at 3.30 and I would call my wife.
Marc:I remember that, yeah.
Marc:She was still awake in L.A.
Marc:Right, at 12.30 in L.A., and that was when we talked to her, and I just remember having fights with her.
Marc:Yeah, I remember that.
Marc:In the hall, like I'd have to go into the hall.
Guest:You were in the other show's office, which was just on the other side of the door.
Guest:We could just hear you screaming, and we're all looking at each other like, this is going to be a fun show.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I mean, that was rare.
Guest:I don't want to oversell it, but I remember that happening a few times.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh my God.
Marc:It was so awful, dude.
Marc:I was so tired and the relationship was so strained and I was so jealous.
Marc:And there was just this undercurrent of like, you know, what's she doing out there?
Marc:Right.
Marc:And it didn't end well.
Marc:Yeah, I fucked that up pretty good.
Marc:But, yeah, I just remember those days.
Marc:And just do you remember me just showing up with the bag of M&Ms and two Dunkin' Donut coffees?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I remember – this just popped into my head.
Guest:You're talking about what we would eat.
Guest:You and I are both food obsessed.
Guest:We always bonded over that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:some intern or someone was being sent out to get, like, breakfast burritos.
Guest:This was after we got off the air at 9.
Guest:It's, like, 9.30 or 10.
Guest:Shelly, the executive officer, I was in the office, we're chatting.
Guest:You say, like, you're sending out an intern.
Guest:Get me a breakfast burrito.
Guest:And you reach into your wallet to take money out.
Guest:And Shelly says...
Guest:No, no, I got this.
Guest:Don't make the talent pay.
Guest:And you said, oh, you said, oh, I like that you called me the talent.
Marc:I don't know if I ever heard that before.
Marc:But do you remember like, wait, then there was like, there was, I remember the big, because what happened ultimately because of my innate bulliness is,
Marc:Is that, you know, everyone got nicknames.
Marc:Very Trumpian.
Marc:Like, so you were, you know, son of Louis and Linda Pashman.
Marc:And what was the whole thing?
Marc:Son of Louis and Linda Pashman of Upper Saddle River, New Jersey, I believe.
Guest:Stuff like that.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Which became annoying.
Marc:Like, at some point, you're like, my parents are done with that.
Guest:So.
Guest:I remember one time you began a show.
Guest:You were like, my goal for the show today is to make Pashman cry.
Yeah.
Marc:I'm such an asshole.
Marc:That was good progressive radio.
Marc:That was always the problem with what was ultimately happening.
Marc:But just you guys in that booth at LIB just looking at me.
Marc:You know, like Larson panicked.
Marc:You were always like, you know, he would look at you and I'd see you run out.
Right.
Marc:To get something.
Marc:That sounds familiar.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But do you remember when we started doing the comedy bits?
Marc:That was exciting.
Marc:Oh, it was great.
Guest:Honestly, I mean, you were more experienced farther along in your career.
Guest:I'd never been in an environment like that.
Guest:I was just game.
Guest:Having comedy writers around.
Marc:And we were doing crazy shit.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:You know, Jim Earl, Kent Jones, Tom Johnson.
Marc:Like we were just doing crazy shit.
Marc:We loaded that stuff up with so much fucking comedy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you remember doing bits?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:That's the stuff that I remember the most.
Guest:I don't remember like the news as much.
Guest:I remember our bits.
Guest:I remember like me and Brandon always like everyone was always in the booth when you were doing a bit.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, because we wanted to laugh, get in the laughs.
Guest:But we also wanted to see it and hear it.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:We didn't want to miss it.
Guest:If you were interviewing someone about Tom DeLay and what's happening in Washington, then I could step out and get some papers together.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:But, I mean, like, I stand by the quality of that show.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:Especially, like, sure, it took us some months to get our sea legs and to figure out what worked.
Guest:But once we figured out what worked.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, when it was like six or eight months in, when Brendan and I were running the show and... That's right, when Larson left.
Guest:Larson left and Ellicott left and you and Riley were in your groove and we had the comedy writers had their bits on a schedule and everyone knew their jobs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We were cranking out some great shit.
Marc:Yeah, Brendan drinking his insurers and you picking your head.
Yeah.
Marc:So he's walking in, you're like, what's he got up on his head?
Marc:You still do that?
Marc:Yeah, sometimes.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What are you doing up there when you're picking on your head?
Guest:It's just like a tick.
Guest:Playing with your hair?
Guest:It's like a tick.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:When I was a kid, I used to pull on my lip, which was weirder looking, so this is progress.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I think the big break, I think the big, there was a monumental thing that happened, right?
Guest:Yeah, I was going to ask you, like, do you remember, is there a turning point you remember?
Marc:Not for me, but for you.
Marc:I just remember, like, you know, I never had a good sense of, you know, what really, you know, is not important, but what has cultural traction or, like, I went to Hawaii.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:With Mishnah, you know, for a vacation.
Marc:The day after I got there was the hurricane.
Marc:It was the, you know, when the hurricane happened.
Marc:Oh, Katrina.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Marc:And you and Brendan.
Marc:We were hosting.
Marc:You had to take the mics and do live coverage.
Marc:Right.
Marc:For, like, days, right?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And that was, like, a big deal that you guys, like, stepped up.
Marc:Neither one of you were really on the mic, guys.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you managed the goddamn show with live breaking news around for like days.
Marc:And I'm just in Hawaii.
Marc:I'm like, I'm missing it.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:But I wouldn't have been able to handle it as well because you couldn't do any comedy.
Marc:You can do anything.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Like, what was that?
Guest:In a way, it was probably better because Brendan and I had some news experience.
Guest:Right.
Guest:The two of us weren't going to be doing comedy bits the way you can do them.
Guest:So, like, it was almost better.
Guest:Was Riley there or was he on vacation?
Guest:He was away, too.
Guest:It was just me and Brendan.
Guest:That's crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So do you remember, like... I remember that.
Guest:I remember interviewing Jesse Jackson.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And I remember asking him, Reverend Jackson, it's been reported that the day after whatever the hurricane, all these people have lost their homes, all these things are happening, that Condoleezza Rice, who I believe is the secretary of state at the time, Condoleezza Rice was seen out buying new shoes.
Guest:What do you make of that?
Guest:And he said, not much.
Marc:Good for you.
Marc:Nice.
Marc:It's always great when you put together a big old question.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:Good morning.
Guest:It's Morning Sedition here on Air America Radio, 21 minutes past the hour.
Guest:I'm Dan Paschman.
Guest:I'm here with Brendan McDonald.
Guest:Morning.
Guest:We're filling in for Mark and Mark.
Guest:They'll be back on Tuesday, and we are just angry today.
Guest:We've gone from sympathy and empathy.
Guest:And now we are really finding out the truth about what's gone on in the Gulf Coast in terms of lack of preparedness, in terms of diverted funds.
Guest:And now, Brendan, there's a new level of offensiveness coming out of certain figures in the right wing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:When the FEMA director, Michael Brown, is saying that the agency is trying to, quote, help those who are stranded, who chose not to evacuate, who chose not to leave the city, end quote,
Guest:How can you not be furious at that?
Guest:How dare you?
Guest:There are one third of the population of New Orleans lives below the poverty line.
Guest:How are some of these people choosing anything?
Guest:They don't even get to choose whether they're eating some nights.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:I mean, it is so fundamentally offensive to say that they chose to stay.
Guest:I understand that these conservatives have a hard time understanding what it's like to not have a car, not be able to afford food, let alone a hotel, and not have anywhere to go.
Guest:I mean, Condi Rice yesterday was shopping for shoes in New York City.
Guest:She spent thousands of dollars yesterday.
Guest:At the same moment that people were dying in the United States of America, our Secretary of State went shopping.
Guest:That situation, it just tells me that they either, there's only two options.
Guest:They're just too stupid or they don't care.
Guest:And neither of those options are good.
Guest:And it's those people who would suggest, people who are shopping for shoes at this moment, would suggest that the poor people, the victims stranded now on the Gulf Coast, chose to stay there.
Guest:I also remember that I, that Brendan and I gave out the email address to the show during that week being like, email us, whatever, just, you know, like, and that was just from New Orleans, just in general.
Guest:Like we weren't doing New Orleans every minute of the show.
Guest:So like other parts of the show would be like, Hey, drop us an email.
Guest:Tell us what you're up to, whatever.
Guest:Um,
Guest:And that was just something for a reason.
Guest:Like, that was not part of your routine.
Guest:Like, you talk to people in other ways, but you didn't give out the email address much on the air.
Marc:Well, that's because it would always cause me a lot of stress.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But so you came back, and all of a sudden, there's all these emails.
Guest:The email inbox got way more interest than when you're hosting.
Guest:You're like...
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:How come everyone emails the show when I'm not here?
Guest:What?
Guest:Oh, suddenly everyone has emails now?
Marc:Did I do that?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:And we were like, no, we just gave out the address.
Guest:If you give out the address, people will email you too.
Marc:Oh, it's so funny.
Marc:Like that part of the ego, like the insanity that I was living in on a daily basis because of, I just remember that whole thing with that guy who kept emailing me or emailed me about like, you know, why don't you shut up?
Marc:Let the grownups talk.
Marc:Oh, God.
Marc:And I kept going, you know, back and forth.
Marc:I'm like, I'm doing like, this is what we're doing as a comedy show.
Marc:And he's like, yeah, but you don't know what you're talking about.
Marc:And he just like, you know, it became, it was just troll.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:And it was this great, right.
Marc:Great lesson though.
Marc:Like, cause I, he eventually said, he eventually sent me an email that said, stop emailing me.
Marc:Needy Mark trying to turn the guy around.
Guest:I love that the troll gave up.
Marc:Please stop.
Guest:You broke him.
Guest:Talk about the issues.
Guest:Who was that guy, the sort of like mildly unhinged but ultimately harmless guy who wrote a song or we took a voice memo of his and turned it into a song?
Marc:Oh, Brian.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Brian from Seattle?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yes, but didn't he, what was his song?
Guest:There was a song.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Hold on.
Marc:That's Brendan.
Marc:Brendan remembers everything.
Guest:He does.
Guest:He has an amazing memory.
Marc:It's crazy.
Marc:Like, you know, I don't even know who I am half the time.
Marc:He has to remind me.
Marc:I'll bet you'll get it in a second.
Guest:Tell him we want to hear the song.
Guest:Tell him to play the song for us.
Marc:Inconsistent mental disposition.
Marc:This is a guy named Brian up there in Everett, Washington, who's a frequent caller to the show, but sometimes a little over the top.
Marc:You know, he's got, he spends a lot of time awake.
Marc:We're assuming that he has an inconsistent mental disposition, but a good guy.
Guest:Inconsistent mental disposition.
Marc:I'm being diplomatic, man.
Marc:But he's, you know, anyways, so he's working on a song and we got a series of messages.
Marc:Chris?
Yeah.
Guest:Now I may have some strange religious views, because I believe Al Franken is the king of the Jews.
Guest:And Jesus may have...
Guest:Next message.
Marc:See, now, it kept getting cut off for reasons that aren't clear to me.
Marc:I don't know if it was Brian's fault or it was the machine's fault, but he did forge on.
Guest:You know, whoever's with his phone system can themselves in the mouth and eat their own waste.
Guest:You know, that's what I say.
Guest:So leave me alone.
Guest:I'm trying to get a good take and replay it back on my touchtone pad.
Guest:So can I play and get a good recording so I can hear how it sounds?
Guest:I got an inconsistent mental disposition.
Guest:So this morning, we get this message.
Guest:Okay, three things.
Guest:First of all, I'm three hours away from you.
Guest:I have to time it to call in at 4.30 in the morning.
Guest:my time because i don't get you till three hours later second of all i drink too much the uh... the uh... speech patterns that come out the uh... profanity comes from the alcohol and third of all uh... when i was trying to record the farm it wasn't your machine cutting it off it was something with the internal working of the phone card and and i was trying to get to work where it would say if you want to hear your message back please press follow-up
Guest:I got an inconsistent mental disposition.
Guest:How's that going to look in the deposition?
Guest:Next message.
Guest:Apparently, Brian, are you on the phone?
Guest:Am I here?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hey, hey.
Guest:What?
Guest:What?
Guest:You want to hear a song, man?
Guest:I want to hear the whole song, Brian.
Guest:I'm not your monkey, man.
Guest:Come on, dude.
Guest:Come on, Brian.
Guest:We've been waiting for this.
Guest:Hey, listen.
Guest:I'm going to do a professional recording and send you a tape.
Guest:How's that sound?
Marc:No, just give us a few.
Marc:Give us at least one whole verse, Brian.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:I know you're not my monkey, but we're all enjoying it here.
Marc:Yeah, man.
Marc:We got this song rolling around.
Marc:That doesn't sound original.
Guest:I got an inconsistent mental disposition.
Guest:The cheers theme.
Guest:Now how's that gonna look in the deposition?
Guest:I got all messed up by a crooked family position.
Guest:And now to clear my name, I'm on a mission.
Guest:So please cut me some slack.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Jesus may have come from outer space But it ain't no reason to make a federal case So don't give me no flack It's just a little Manchurian blowback I was a drunken slob But now I'm just a fry cook Looking for a job
Guest:You know, I'm trying to get a job without going through the sufferings of Job, actually.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:So that was beautiful, man.
Marc:I appreciate you sharing that, Brian.
Guest:Yeah, but I wanted to tell you, since I've got this newfound fame, I'm going to embark on a political career, I think, just to leap off from this show.
Marc:Yeah, I think this is the beginning for you, Brian.
Guest:Yeah, I have a new political party.
Guest:It's called the Antisocial Socialist Party.
Guest:That sounds good.
Guest:Is it just you and it?
Guest:Well, my slogan is, do I have to leave the house?
Guest:I'll vote for you, Brian.
Guest:Hey, what happened to that Fast?
Guest:Do you remember the Fast song you played about Al Franken?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It was going to end up like this.
Guest:Al Franken, nothing to lose.
Guest:Makes you laugh at the troubling news.
Guest:Sometimes I wonder if he's hitting the booze.
Guest:Al Franken...
Guest:Thank you, Brian.
Marc:You've made our morning.
Marc:We'll talk to you soon.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Thanks, Brian.
Guest:Okay, bye.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:That's different.
Guest:He came through.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:I'd completely forgotten about Brian from Seattle because I met him a couple of times when I did shows in Seattle.
Marc:He would come because we used to talk to him and it was just always sort of like, you know, he was on the edge, dude.
Guest:But I feel like we were compassionate to him.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:But that was the whole idea of creating that world of a morning show was to have the regular callers, have the regular characters that come and go, and then the recurring bits.
Marc:And I was just honoring it.
Marc:And I've talked to Brendan about this.
Marc:In retrospect, we worked harder than any morning show I've ever seen.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Because we're doing original comedy at least two or three times an hour.
Marc:Some of it like elaborate that had to be produced that morning with sound effects and everything.
Marc:Some of those scripts, the Tom Johnson scripts were crazy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then we had those refillable bits, Dream Diary, the liberal talking points.
Marc:War on Brains, Morning Remembrance.
Marc:Oh, all the Jim Earl bits.
Marc:He kind of did his own thing and he was a character.
Marc:And then, you know, just sort of random stuff.
Marc:We did emails, I think, occasionally.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, my God, dude.
Marc:But then also the news.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Well, that was Riley.
Marc:Riley?
Marc:And then Gellman started doing it.
Guest:And then against the backdrop of all of that was just the craziness of the whole organization.
Guest:I mean, like we were in our little bubble making the show.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Do you know that I – like I had the key to the office.
Guest:I came in at, you know, 2 o'clock in the morning.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Did you catch Cohen in there?
Marc:Counting money?
Guest:I walk in.
Guest:This is a Sunday night into a Monday morning.
Guest:So it's Monday morning, two o'clock in the morning.
Marc:After the weekend, yeah.
Guest:I come in.
Guest:Normally I come in, all the lights are off.
Guest:I'm opening the office.
Guest:I walk in and Evan Cohen, the CEO, is in the office shredding papers.
Marc:No.
Guest:Yes.
Yes.
Guest:This place... This is like late Sunday, early Monday morning.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Now, if you want to see how generally crazy that place was and how stupid I was, I was like, oh, CEO's putting in some extra hours.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's writing paper.
Guest:I was like, wow, this guy's really committed.
Marc:He's working hard.
Marc:I wonder what he was doing.
Marc:Yeah, I don't even... Where is all that documented?
Marc:Is it on left of the dial?
Marc:That's not.
Marc:That was sort of a celebration thing.
Marc:It wasn't until after that we realized the guy was a complete fraud.
Marc:All of it.
Marc:There was just so much crazy happening, and, like, we were... I just remember the battles.
Marc:Like, we worked so hard, but it's just our nature.
Marc:It's... Brendan and I still do that.
Marc:Like, you know...
Marc:if there's work to do, it's going to get done and we're going to overdo it.
Marc:We're going to work too hard.
Marc:Like, but there was no way to lay back.
Marc:We're just not that kind of people.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:We got a jam.
Marc:It was never, there's, there's nothing easy about it.
Guest:But honestly, like, like,
Guest:You came in with a certain hunger that matched Brendan and me and the crew.
Guest:Whereas, like, this is what I was saying before, like, I think that some of the other hosts who came in there who maybe were more famous when Air America launched came in somewhat complacent.
Guest:And they were like, I'm already famous.
Guest:I'm funny.
Guest:Just turn on the mics.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, I know how to be good.
Marc:And they had producers that just covered everything for them.
Marc:Right, but there's only so much you can cover.
Marc:But yeah, but there was this weird combination of like, you know, guys who were like coming up who were political guys who were kind of wonky and, you know, were there for the mission.
Marc:And then just these creepy radio people.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Who were just like hanging on as this industry was slowly evaporating.
Marc:Consultants, whatever.
Marc:You know, they were just all hustlers.
Marc:And that's just the nature of the game.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But they were there too.
Marc:And it's sort of like, these people don't seem political.
Marc:Right.
Marc:They didn't give a fuck.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:But at least like some of them loved our show, though, because our show was entertaining.
Marc:Of course, because we were doing like what they remembered, what radio was.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:They got it.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:But we also like we weren't lecturing.
Guest:Like one of the things that I learned working on the show that informs the way that I view politics and the left today still.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When we launched Air America, we had this underlying idea that the facts and the truth are on our side.
Guest:And if we can just tell people the truth and present the facts, then it will be obvious that we're right on these issues and we'll inform people and that will be doing some kind of good.
Guest:And what I learned is actually, first of all, most people aren't interested.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, like, and you got to hit people in the gut before you hit them in the brain.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You got to be entertaining before you're informative.
Marc:But also, like, we would take the piss out of the left.
Marc:I mean, all the jokes, like the Barber's Tries and the liberal talking points.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:That was a complete shot at liberals.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Marc:And that was, like, the best thing about it.
Marc:We were sort of this counterbalance within the tent.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That was able to sort of have a sense of humor about the nature of us.
Guest:I remember we went to, like, there was a big sort of anti-Iraq war march.
Guest:We went with you and took microphones.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, like, you know how everyone's always complaining, oh, how come the Democrats can't all get their act together and be united the way the Republicans are?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Then we went to this march and there were signs for 75 different issues.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:You know, no one seemed to have agreed on what the march was about.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then I remember you just commenting on all the costumes.
Guest:You're like, oh, look, someone made a mask.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, look, it's an art installation.
Marc:Yeah, that'll do it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That ought to stop the war.
Marc:Yeah, good job.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:Good job with the papier-mâché hand.
Marc:Bread and circus is always effective.
Guest:Yeah, that'll move the needle.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I mean, that was the, but you know, it really was an indicator.
Marc:Like ultimately that was our undoing was the, the self seriousness and of, of Goldberg and, and not understanding that like as many as whoever liked us, the left is an impossible audience.
Marc:You really start to realize like a lot of this audience has no fucking sense of humor.
Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:True.
Marc:And then, like, right when Stern fucking leaves, you know, we're like, this is our shot.
Marc:Like, we even had a shot.
Marc:Like, that was really a thing.
Marc:But at least in New York, maybe we could pick up some people.
Marc:And then Goldberg's like, no, it needs to be more like NPR.
Marc:And I'm like, they already have that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But he had no sense of humor.
Marc:Zero.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Zero.
Marc:And just for the record...
Marc:Fuck that guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what's weird is that, like, I knew his name.
Guest:I knew who he was from his work, you know, and I had actually said to some higher ups early on, I was like, you know who we should get here in here is Danny Goldberg.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Because I thought.
Guest:You did it.
Marc:All right.
Guest:No, I mean, I just because I was like, oh, like, he's liberal.
Guest:He's politically astute, but he also understands, like, entertainment and culture, I thought.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he also worked for Led Zeppelin.
Marc:The most interesting about that guy, you know, was he was a creepy A&R guy or something.
Marc:I don't know what he was in in music, but he, you know, claimed some responsibility for Nirvana and worked with Led Zeppelin.
Guest:Which is bullshit.
Guest:Like he was the publicist for Led Zeppelin as if that was hard.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:As if it was hard to get people to like Led Zeppelin.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When me and Larson went to meet him for the first time when he first got the job and, you know, Larson was sort of like, you know, in ass kissing mode.
Marc:And I'm like, so Zeppelin, you know, this fucking guy wouldn't do it.
Marc:So when, I can't remember, when did you leave?
Guest:When things took a turn for the worse, the show launched in April 2004, and it was about six months, and then Larson got pushed out, and then Brendan and I— Didn't Larson want to be out?
Guest:Some from column A, some from column B. No, no, no.
Marc:My recollection is that— He didn't want to work those hours anymore, and he wanted to take a different position.
Guest:Maybe, but he also went away for a week, and I remember you coming in after a show and being like, it feels like a cloud's been lifted.
Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You guys are the guys.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And so I think I ellicotted Larson.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I don't know who I don't know who eventually made it happen.
Guest:And I don't think he fought to leave.
Marc:No, because he wanted to start a family and like he had that before.
Guest:But I think he also like I think some part of him recognized that like this was it wasn't working.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He hated my guts.
Guest:And I resented him.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Why do you hate you?
Guest:Um, cause I was, um, recalcitrant.
Guest:Um, I, you know, he felt that I undermined him, which I did cause I thought he was doing a shitty job.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Uh, which like, you know, I was, I was a little bit young and full of hubris and I wouldn't handle the situation the same way today.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But you know, I also felt like he, um, didn't give me and Brendan opportunities to, to have more of a stamp on the show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He had a very nervous energy, which I thought only made you feel worse.
Marc:But it was a nervous, like, know-it-all energy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:After he was gone, there was a year from fall of 2004 to fall of 2005 that I consider the heyday, when it was you, me, Brendan, K-Lo, the writers, and that's when our show was in its prime.
Guest:And in the fall of 2005, or summer to fall of 2005, was when Danny Goldberg started...
Guest:really putting the heat on our show.
Guest:He also didn't like me.
Guest:He said, don't ever put Don Pushman on the air again.
Guest:Whatever the fuck he called me, he didn't know my name.
Guest:And at some point, I think Carl came to me, who was one of the other execs, and said, look,
Guest:Things aren't looking good.
Guest:If you want to have a job, there's an opening on this other show that I'm going to move you to.
Guest:Maybe was it Randy Rhodes?
Marc:Maybe.
Marc:Oh, that's right, because I remember you were like a different guy in the office now.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I always had this weird loyalty problem with people that were still in the office that left the show.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Marc:How's it going, man?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, that's right, because Carl saw the writing on the wall, and we were going to be pushed out.
Guest:And he was like, if you want to save your job, I think that you should agree to be moved to this other show.
Guest:And I said, okay.
Marc:One of the most charming, duplicitous people in the business, Carl Ginsberg.
Marc:He's just jerking two people off at once with different stories.
Guest:But in fairness, I remember one time I went in, Brendan and I, when we were working like crazy, we went in to him, the two of us together, to ask for raises.
Guest:And it was the only time my entire career that I have ever...
Guest:asked for a raise and gotten it immediately.
Guest:He just said, yes, how much you want?
Guest:And I said whatever I asked for.
Guest:And then he said, okay, and he gave Brendan a raise.
Guest:But Brendan had started off at a lower salary than me.
Guest:And I was like, well, Brendan, and I said, well, Brendan's doing just as much work as I'm doing.
Guest:And, you know, like we should really be getting paid the same.
Guest:And he goes, okay, all right, fine.
Marc:Yeah, that's so great.
Guest:And then it turns to his computer and sends an email.
Guest:He's like reading, you know, people read the emails like, effective immediately, click, click, click, please increase Dan and Brendan to blah, blah, blah.
Guest:And he's like, okay, you're all set.
Marc:Don't get me wrong.
Marc:I loved Carl Ginsberg, and I don't know why it ended badly with us.
Marc:I'm sure he knows, but I have no idea really why.
Marc:I think he blames me for, like, sinking the streaming show that we had when no one could stream anything because I brought Cedar in.
Marc:It's fairly complex, but I always got a kick out of him.
Marc:He was a character.
Marc:He was great.
Marc:He was great, and, you know, he kept us going.
Marc:He kept me employed.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like he sent me to L.A.
Marc:and him and Elberg, you know, somehow created a spot for me out here.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, and then, you know, that didn't pan out.
Marc:But the idea was they're going to keep me, you know, off.
Marc:They were going to keep me on the back burner until they got rid of Goldberg.
Marc:And then they're going to bring me back.
Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, for the big, you know.
Marc:Triumph and return.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They had you, like, off in the wilderness.
Marc:I don't know, man.
Marc:But you missed all that.
Marc:You missed the sort of Charlie Kerker thing.
Guest:I missed most of it.
Guest:Although I remember, like, because I, so I was there total for three years from launch to, like, from 2004 to 2007.
Guest:First year and a half with you, next year and a half bouncing around.
Guest:Then I left and worked some other jobs.
Guest:I was at SiriusXM freelancing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I bounced around.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, is it NPR for a while?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then when the Great Recession hit in 2008, I was like, the week Lehman Brothers went under, I was like, this is going to be fucking bad.
Guest:And I was like freelancing.
Guest:I was like, I need a job.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I got a call from Amy Winslow.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:She was like sort of one of the middle managers who was kind of always looking out for us.
Guest:And she said, I got an opening back here to America.
Guest:Do you want it?
Guest:And at that point, I had no illusions.
Guest:I knew this place is going under.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But she offered me a full-time job.
Guest:I knew that the economy was about to tank.
Guest:I said, you got it.
Guest:So I took that job for like the final year or year and a half of Air America's existence.
Guest:So I was back there.
Guest:And I remember there was an engineer named Eddie Morgan.
Guest:And this was like the last couple days of Air America.
Guest:Charlie Kirker is like wandering through the control room.
Guest:room and like sort of looking for Lorne, knowing that this is all about to go under.
Guest:And Eddie Morgan starts telling him about how his family has some kind of like a rubber farm in Africa and asking Charlie if he wants to invest in it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:Since this was such a hot idea.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:I'm like, Eddie, this is not the time.
Marc:Oh my God.
Guest:The guy's literally like looking, like people are putting, you know, their names on, on equipment to claim it for when the fire sale starts.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Charlie wants to invest in his rubber farm.
Marc:Yeah, poor Charlie.
Marc:I never understood what was going on.
Guest:It was an interesting lesson, though, about rich people and their money.
Marc:Cedar got it.
Marc:He always got it.
Marc:He knew what the score was.
Marc:Bennett Zier.
Marc:Do you remember Bennett Zier?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Do you know, so like, so this was, he was running it when I came back the second time.
Guest:And I got, I had him pegged.
Guest:I, he was Steve Carell in The Office.
Guest:That character.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:He thinks he's a master motivator.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:But he's actually a total nincompoop.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I said, look, again, it's recession.
Guest:I'm just trying to keep this job.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I said, all right, if I'm going to keep this job, this guy needs to see me as like a cheerleader in the office who's part of his like motivational program to make everyone love working here.
Guest:So I brought back the Air America softball team.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And I got him to play on it.
Guest:You came and played in jeans.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Which made me think you probably sucked, but you were actually pretty good.
Guest:I can play.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I can catch a ball.
Guest:Don't show up in jeans.
Marc:I meant I hurt myself.
Yeah.
Guest:But so I started the entire softball team, rekindled it only because I thought it would preserve my job.
Guest:And I later found out that in a meeting where they were deciding who to lay off, my name came up and Bennett Zier said, we can't lay off Dan.
Guest:What will happen to the softball team?
Guest:You did it.
Marc:Genius.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So what's going on with you now?
Marc:What do you got?
Marc:What's this cookbook?
Marc:You still got that podcast?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I still do a podcast.
Guest:What is it?
Guest:Weekly?
Guest:It's weekly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Weekly.
Marc:How's that going?
Guest:It's going well.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, it's, it's good.
Guest:We're working on some spinoff concepts, which will be exciting.
Guest:Like other food podcasts, but like ones that I wouldn't host.
Guest:I doubt it.
Guest:Not an empire, but maybe a little cottage group.
Marc:How's the imposter you invented doing?
Guest:That's very exciting.
Guest:It's in 2,500 stores around America.
Guest:Do you make money off of that?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, it's still less than I make from the podcast.
Marc:Pasta residuals aren't great?
Guest:They're good, but yeah.
Marc:But it's cool.
Marc:It's more than I expected to make.
Marc:Sure, but it's now established.
Marc:What's it called, the style of pasta?
Marc:It's called Cascatelli.
Guest:Cascatelli, and who manufactures that?
Guest:The original one is made by a company called Sfolini, S-F-O-G-L-I-N-I.com.
Marc:There's several companies manufacturing your pasta?
Guest:So there's a version at Trader Joe's that's like generic.
Guest:It doesn't have my name or anything on it, but that's there.
Guest:It's not made by Sfolini.
Guest:It's not the same, but it's like half the price.
Guest:But it's your design?
Guest:Yeah, same concept, same design.
Guest:And then there's a gluten-free version made from chickpeas made by Bonza that's in Whole Foods Nationwide.
Marc:Is you on the name?
Marc:Do you get credit on that one?
Guest:On that one, yeah.
Marc:What is it, on the package?
Guest:Yeah, it's got a little Sporkful logo and stuff.
Marc:Oh, Sporkful logo, like designed by Dan Pasch.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, basically.
Guest:It's been exciting, yeah.
Marc:Do you have any more pasta designs?
Guest:I launched two new shapes, actually.
Guest:These two new ones I didn't invent.
Guest:They're obscure Italian shapes, and I teamed up with Fellini to produce them.
Guest:Their difficulty is not impossible to find in America.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:What are those called?
Guest:One is called Vesuvio, like Mount Vesuvius.
Guest:And one is called Quattratini.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:So, and what's this cookbook you're working on?
Guest:It is, it's all like pasta sauces, basically.
Guest:Like I invented a pasta shape and everyone's always saying, what should I put on it?
Guest:Or they're sending me pictures of what they're putting on it.
Guest:And a lot of the pictures they're sending me are like pretty blah.
Guest:They're like glopping tomato sauce on top.
Guest:And I realized that people need help with more interesting pasta dishes.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I, every once in a while,
Marc:I'll make some real llama trichana.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I'll go out and get a piece of slab of guanciale and do it correctly.
Guest:So I know you've been fermenting, and I know that you're interested in fermented cabbage, which includes kimchi.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:There's going to be several recipes in the book, including a kimchi carbonara and a kimchi alla Grigia.
Guest:Kimchi alla gricha is like the mother sauce of carbonara and amatriciana.
Guest:It's the guanciale, the cheese, the pasta water, but no egg and no tomato.
Guest:It's more simple.
Guest:So you have gricha and you add kimchi to that or you do carbonara with kimchi.
Guest:If you cook the kimchi in the pan, it takes a bit of the spice and acidity off.
Guest:It sweetens it a little bit.
Guest:It's fantastic.
Marc:There's no egg in amatriciana.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:So you have Grigia, which is the guanciale, cheese, pasta water.
Guest:Then from there, there's two descendants.
Guest:Carbonara, which is that plus egg.
Guest:And Amatriciana, which is Grigia plus tomato.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, interesting.
Marc:So you've got the whole history of the sauces.
Marc:There used to just be a sauce that was guanciale, pasta water.
Marc:And cheese.
Marc:And cheese.
Guest:Yeah, and you can still, like, I had it in Rome.
Guest:It was incredible.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, to me, yeah.
Guest:I actually like it better than the carbonara or Amatriciana because I just feel like those get in the way and you just get the guanciale.
Guest:When you get that pork fat and the pasta water and the cheese and they all emulsify together into, like, into that sauce, you don't need anything else.
Guest:Besides kimchi.
Guest:And on that note...
Guest:But the cookbook doesn't come back until 2024.
Guest:Well, hopefully we'll see each other again before that.
Marc:Yes, I hope so.
Marc:Good talking to you, Dan.
Guest:Thanks, buddy.
Guest:And now, another great moment in Morning Sedition history.
Marc:We're at the Republican National Convention.
Marc:Dan Pashman went underground undercover to pull a report.
Guest:Dan Pashman was directly underneath Laura Bush minutes after she finished speaking.
Guest:Infiltrating.
Guest:Security breach man.
Guest:This is Dan Pashman for Air America.
Guest:I am underneath Madison Square Garden, underneath the stage here with our friend the stagehand.
Guest:So hypothetically,
Guest:If somebody wanted to cut out George W. Bush's teleprompter as he begins his speech, is this where you'd want to be to do that?
Guest:I'm not even sure where that would be.
Guest:This is mostly audio.
Guest:So to cut out his mic, this is where I'd want to be?
Guest:Yeah, you could do that.
Guest:I could cut out his mic from down here?
Guest:And the podiums come out of the deck also.
Guest:So we're directly beneath the podium?
Guest:Yeah, that's the podium right here.
Guest:That is the podium.
Guest:The main podium is right there.
Guest:We are directly underneath it at this time.
Guest:And now you said all these signs back here, all those signs that look like they're hand-painted actually have been trucked in and printed?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Wow, that's a lot of four more years signs.
Guest:I think if you add up all these years, this is like a billion years.
Guest:Yeesh.
Guest:You know there's no media in this part of the floor?
Guest:Did you guys know that?
Guest:I did not.
Guest:No media on the fifth floor.
Guest:Like in this, in the OP.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:No go.
Guest:Okay, we'll head out then.
Guest:All right, I just got kicked out of the Republican National Convention.
Guest:Ow!
Guest:This has been another great moment in morning sedition history.