BONUS The Friday Show - Betting, Fretting and Bar Setting
Guest:Alright, I want to establish something, like a baseline here, okay?
Guest:You ready, Chris?
Guest:Can we establish something?
Guest:What do you got?
Guest:Professional wrestling is fake.
Guest:That is correct.
Guest:Okay, alright, great.
Guest:I just want to all be on the same page with that.
Guest:Alright, so imagine my surprise looking at CNBC.com this morning, and I see this headline.
Guest:You ready for this?
Guest:What do you got?
Guest:WWE in talks with state gambling regulators to legalize betting on scripted match results.
Marc:No.
Guest:What the fuck?
Marc:Wait, first of all, this sounds like the next great, like...
Marc:What's the Adam Sandler movie with the bedding?
Marc:Uncut Gems?
Marc:Yeah, this is Uncut Gems 2, except someone needs to break into Vince McMahon's house and get the results.
Guest:Get the results?
Guest:This is how I win, motherfucker.
Guest:That is a way better idea than actually going through with this plan.
Guest:All right, ready.
Guest:Are you ready to hear the details of how they plan to do this?
Marc:I mean, wait, wait.
Marc:You mean how they plan to allow people to bet on if Roman Reigns beats Cody at WrestleMania?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Here's what they say in the CNBC report on this.
Guest:This is legitimate news.
Guest:Oh, boy.
Guest:WWE has held discussions with state gambling regulators to legalize betting on scripted match results, sources said.
Guest:They are working with EY, commonly known as Ernst & Young, to secure match results so they won't leak to the public.
Guest:I guess these are going to be like the guys at the Oscars who hold the briefcase.
Guest:They're just going to hang around at WWE events with briefcases.
Guest:Also, what?
Guest:I hope they get confused with the money in the bank briefcase and the guy goes to get the money in the bank and it's like the next year's worth of storylines.
Marc:These are just pieces of paper.
Guest:That sounds dumb.
Guest:Here's an amazing line here.
Guest:What?
Guest:WWE creative executives don't plan to inform wrestlers who will win until hours before a match.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Like, all right, we're going to talk about this a little later on, I think, because we always talk about what the best thing we saw in wrestling was.
Guest:And I know that both you and I think the best thing we saw, maybe possibly in our lives, was this Iron Man match that we watched on Sunday, right?
Guest:Correct.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Can you imagine they tried to do that match without knowing what the ending was going to be until hours before they did it?
Marc:That sounds like a nightmare.
Marc:Like you couldn't do it.
Marc:You could not put on a quality product without knowing.
Guest:Something you always say to me when we're watching this stuff, we're talking about it.
Guest:You're like, well.
Guest:man, you know, all of this stuff.
Guest:And what do I always tell you?
Guest:I'm like, it's not me.
Guest:It's Tony Khan.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:It makes sense, right?
Guest:He's booking this in a logical way.
Guest:So you should be able to know the results.
Guest:So what this means is that either this is going to be the worst thing to gamble on ever because it'll be like when you would do IQ trivia and you'd get five cents because there's no stakes, right?
Guest:So there's either going to be zero stakes or they're just going to have to have the dumbest booking ever to make this work.
Marc:Yeah, they'll keep swerving people.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:It'll make no sense storyline-wise.
Marc:No.
Marc:Oh, man, this sounds horrible.
Marc:Also, okay, so the wrestlers don't know an hour or let's say, you know, let's say one hour before the match.
Marc:I'm sure they don't have friends and they don't tell them what's going to happen.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It just doesn't make any sense.
Marc:Here's the great thing.
Guest:It says, this is from the CNBC piece.
Guest:Betting on the Academy Awards is already legal and available through some sports betting applications, including market leaders FanDuel and DraftKings, although most states don't allow it.
Guest:WWE executives have cited Oscar betting as a template to convince regulators gambling on scripted matches is safe.
Guest:That's not the same thing.
Guest:That's not the same thing.
Guest:You know why it's not the same thing?
Guest:No one is writing the Oscars.
Guest:Like, they don't sit around ahead of time and script it out.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:These are votes.
Guest:Like they're voting on it.
Guest:You're betting.
Guest:It's like voting, betting on the presidential election.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That's bonkers.
Marc:And they keep on citing the Oscars.
Marc:That's not that's not a one to one, guys.
Marc:Like, no, I they might have to they might have CTE.
Marc:They might need to check in with their doctor because you're doing it wrong.
Guest:Well, I think this is one of the great examples of something we have not yet really talked about on this show, which is how scummy and unscrupulous the wrestling industry is, as led for decades by Vince McMahon and WWE.
Guest:And this, by the way, is The Friday Show, and that's Chris.
Guest:Hey, hey.
Guest:And I'm Brendan.
Guest:And we have been having fun on this show talking about old school wrestling, things we like.
Guest:We've shown Mark some wrestling.
Guest:I guess there's part of me that feels a little bit like, I don't know if guilty is the right word, but definitely uneasy about pretending that this is just hunky-dory and a fun bit of entertainment.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, there's some real problems that have existed from this form of entertainment, like any other form of entertainment.
Guest:But a lot of it's hidden from view, mostly because it's like, this is still a carny circuit thing, right?
Guest:It was invented to fool people.
Guest:And that is still in the DNA of pro wrestling.
Guest:I mean, I guess what I wonder from you, Chris, is how much were you aware of like the, let's just call it the dark side of pro wrestling?
Marc:Well, so I left my TV watching of wrestling at a point when I, I forget what year it was, probably 96, 95.
Marc:Anyway, I remember seeing headlines when Chris Benoit
Marc:killed his family.
Marc:And I remember seeing that and I was like, man, I sure am glad I don't watch that anymore.
Marc:And there was Owen Hart tragically dying.
Marc:And I was just like, wow, this is bad news.
Marc:But that was the extent of what I knew.
Marc:And I mean, I'll be honest, it took me a long time to come back
Marc:I didn't come back to wrestling until basically AEW.
Marc:So that's where I come from with wrestling.
Marc:But I do know just a small bit of the underbelly of it.
Marc:Why?
Marc:What do you?
Marc:I mean, I'm sure you know literally everything because you always do.
Guest:Well, sure, I've wrestled with it, so to speak, for a long time.
Guest:How do I reconcile these two parts of what I know to be true?
Guest:One is that it's tremendously entertaining and that I've liked it for a long time in my life.
Guest:And there are people who I respect greatly who are a part of it.
Guest:At the same time, it has really seedy undercurrents that have existed since it was created.
Guest:And I saw this comment in here.
Guest:I'll read it to you.
Guest:It said, I only recently started my Marc Maron journey shortly before you did the AEW thing.
Guest:That definitely interested me in subscribing to the full Marin.
Guest:So, well, we thank you for being here for that.
Guest:This person...
Guest:That said,
Guest:Etc.
Guest:Someone with Mark's political compass and platform would be a great voice on these issues that don't get enough mainstream coverage.
Guest:It's these very concerns that have me supporting AEW and New Japan Pro Wrestling as the alternative products.
Guest:And yeah, like all of those things are things that...
Guest:you know, basically pushed me away from wrestling.
Guest:Like, yeah, you know, recently there's been sexual misconduct allegations against Vince McMahon, but if you followed wrestling for any amount of time, you knew about tons of these.
Guest:You know, this wasn't a new thing.
Guest:It had been a thing out there for years.
Guest:You know, his ties to the Saudis, that's public.
Guest:Like, they get millions of dollars to run pay-per-views
Guest:with the Saudis.
Guest:Ties to Trump, obviously, you know, their friends.
Guest:And Linda McMahon, who although is estranged from Vince, was in the Trump administration.
Guest:The death of Nancy Argentino, that's a really seedy story, a terrible story of a woman who was killed, who was the girlfriend of Jimmy Superfly Snuka.
Guest:And it's, you know, very likely that he killed her and Vince McMahon is alleged to have helped cover it up.
Guest:All of these things are just kind of scratching the surface of how.
Guest:difficult it is to talk about wrestling and try to ignore some of the worst aspects of it and you know I feel like part of me just tosses it off like well yeah but I'm kind of we're talking about AEW here which isn't WWE has nothing to do with Vince but it's all kind of connected and so we got there was another email that came into the show it wasn't even to our comment page it was something that someone sent directly to Mark and
Guest:This email came in from a listener.
Guest:It says,
Guest:I think it's problematic to overlook some of wrestling's more negative impulses and effects.
Guest:Interestingly, the New York Times just published a piece the other day on both connections between professional wrestling and the GOP neo-fascists.
Guest:This is an op-ed piece he links to here that is by Abraham Josephine Reisman, who wrote this book, Ringmaster.
Guest:And this is a piece about basically the world we're living in that's kind of the Trump world.
Guest:political environment that we're in and how it kind of closely mirrors pro wrestling.
Guest:Back to this emailer.
Guest:I personally don't believe that wrestling deserves the adulation your producer gives it and that your discussions of wrestling have overlooked its darker aspects.
Guest:I tend to believe that our society's embrace of wrestling's artifice and simplification has played a role in our society's embrace of similar politics.
Guest:I guess I am much more skeptical of professional wrestling and how it conditions its fans to subscribe to lower common denominator type emotions.
Guest:And I don't think it deserves to be glamorized or appreciated without touching upon its uglier aspects.
Guest:If you've taken the time to read this, I'm very grateful.
Guest:And that comes from Jeffrey.
Guest:So I'm like very appreciative of Jeffrey sending that.
Marc:Yeah, for sure.
Guest:Those are things that I've definitely thought about myself.
Marc:And still do, honestly.
Marc:It's not something that I just put in the rear view.
Marc:It's definitely things that I think about all the time when I'm watching wrestling.
Guest:You have to let both things exist at the same time.
Guest:Your enjoyment of something and also your knowledge that it might not be perfect.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's what people do with football.
Marc:It's like, oh, look at football.
Marc:I love my team.
Marc:I'm also watching another, you know, my team person possibly murder the other player, you know, while they're playing the sport.
Marc:So it's like, yeah, there are a lot of things that are just in a gray area.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, I found that I was very appreciative of Jeffrey for writing that, and I thought it was worth my time
Guest:to respond to him.
Guest:And then I just think it's probably a good thing for me to share here with listeners.
Guest:There might be some people listening to this on Fridays that are in Jeffrey's similar situation.
Guest:Maybe they're still just listening, giving us a chance, hear us out, but they have the same skepticism and pushback that he has.
Guest:And so as much as this is me writing back to Jeffrey, I think it's me responding also to anyone else who might have similar thoughts that he does.
Guest:I said first of all thank you for taking the time to give thoughtful consideration to what we're doing with some of our wrestling focused content.
Guest:I don't intend to change your mind about wrestling but I would like to offer you some reassurance that your concern about what you call the darker aspects of professional wrestling is not only something I've internalized deeply for most of my life
Guest:It is why I openly support a modern wrestling product that is more humane, respects its audience, and rejects harmful stereotypes and negative gender roles.
Guest:Like most wrestling fans, I developed an appreciation for it at an early age, not unlike what other young people do with comic books or sports or other types of escapist entertainment.
Guest:That whimsical approach to engaging with wrestling matured as I got older and understood the inner workings of the business, the high degree of difficulty necessary to pull off even the most basic wrestling presentation, and the sacrifices made by the performers on behalf of my entertainment.
Guest:The more I learned about the reality of the business, the less I was able to suspend disbelief and ignore the negative repercussions of the product.
Guest:In 2007, when a wrestler named Chris Benoit murdered his wife and child before killing himself, I was convinced that I watched my last wrestling show.
Guest:I would always look back fondly on the bonds I made with friends through wrestling and the happy memories we shared while watching the events, but I didn't see a reason to continue supporting the product.
Guest:Fast forward to today, when I enthusiastically support the upstart company All Elite Wrestling.
Guest:This is a company created by and featuring people who developed a similar affinity toward professional wrestling as I did as a young person, but are not interested in repeating the past transgressions of wrestling promoters who treated their talent like livestock and their fans like rubes.
Guest:There is a respect and acknowledgement of the artistry of professional wrestling, and equally as important, an open acknowledgement that the days of appealing to fans by stirring racial animosities, sexism, and discriminatory attitudes are over.
Guest:AEW displays a fan code of conduct before every event to clearly state their ideals and ensure that treating others without respect or courtesy at their events will not be tolerated.
Guest:I do not have any illusion that this company is a utopia or some kind of cure-all for the negative aspects of professional wrestling.
Guest:But it is unlikely I would have re-engaged as an active fan if progress like this had not been made, and if there wasn't an alternative to wrestling as it had been defined over the decades by Vince McMahon's monolithic and monopolistic WWE.
Guest:One thing I disagree with is your concern that our society's embrace of wrestling's artifice and simplification has played a role in our society's embrace of similar politics.
Guest:For one, there's no evidence, and quite a lot to the contrary, that our society embraces wrestling.
Guest:It is niche programming with a relatively poor reputation thanks to a long history of unscrupulous business practices, poor representation by industry leaders, and the fantastical quality of its presentation.
Guest:As we outlined on our February 24th episode, at WWF's Cultural Apex, a primetime wrestling special was the 37th most watched program on television.
Guest:That is not a dominant form of cultural entertainment that has the ability to shape our national mood.
Guest:Second, the conservative faux populism propagated by Donald Trump and all the imitators who followed seems much more closely tied to Donald Trump's lifelong ability to command attention, going back to his symbiotic relationship with the New York City tabloids up to his dominant years as a reality television star.
Guest:Command of the attention economy, I believe, is the foundation of the current strain of fascist-friendly politics, and Donald Trump was an expert in that field long before he had any involvement with professional wrestling.
Guest:I am very much looking forward to the Abraham Josephine Reisman book, Ringmaster, because I agree with Reisman's thesis in the New York Times opinion piece you linked to.
Guest:Vince McMahon, a bad person who we learn more bad things about on an almost daily basis, was able to use the malleability and performative underpinnings of the medium, in this case wrestling, to construct his own set of rules by which he would always profit and his enemies would struggle to find entry.
Guest:Very Trumpian indeed.
Guest:However, if we can agree that the wrestling profession employs very creative and talented individuals, many of whom are appealing to an audience that's not merely interested in lowest common denominator emotions, I think we can agree that there's space for those performers, those fans, and those in the wrestling business who want to explore their appreciation and enjoyment of the medium in a forward-thinking way.
Guest:I think this is true of any and all forms of entertainment that have checkered pasts and historically undesirable leaders, union-busting Hollywood studio moguls, exploitative record executives, parasitic comedy club owners, the list goes on and on.
Guest:As important as it is to understand their misdeeds and advocate for continuing industry reforms, I would never let those individuals diminish my enjoyment of It's a Wonderful Life or a Motown record or Richard Pryor's stand-up sets.
Guest:Similarly, I am not going to let the existence of Vince McMahon or any ethically challenged wrestling promoter interfere with my enjoyment of a Bryan Danielson match, an artist and talent I'd rank on par with the great masters of filmmaking and pop music and
Guest:live comedy.
Guest:I've grappled with this in a much more personal way than I ever did as a wrestling fan.
Guest:In 2017 I thought very seriously about ending WTF.
Guest:In the wake of the Me Too movement and the public downfall of several high-profile entertainers, I wondered about my culpability.
Guest:As someone responsible for producing a show that celebrated the inner lives of creative people, some of them the very same people who were now accused of and admitting to sexual misconduct,
Guest:Was I also responsible for laundering their public image in a way that enabled their actions?
Guest:I was at that same crossroads I found myself after the Benoit murders.
Guest:Should I take this thing I love, this thing that's been a part of me for a very long time, this thing to which I have devoted countless hours of my brain power and creativity, and just pack it up in a box and put it on the shelf?
Guest:Ultimately, I decided against ending the show.
Guest:I believe then and still do that we'd done great work and more great work was ahead of us.
Guest:And instead of looking at that past and trying to bury it, let's acknowledge it head on, which we did, and move forward by understanding how things need to evolve.
Guest:how we need to hear from more diverse voices in entertainment settings, how we need to speak with people who are actively reshaping the industries in which they work.
Guest:We're not going to overlook the more negative impulses and effects of the industries that we cover, but we're not going to let those become the things that define what we do either.
Guest:Again, I don't intend for this to turn you into a wrestling fan, but I hope, as an appreciator of WTF, you now have a better understanding of why I am a wrestling fan, why I am grateful to have my enjoyment of it reignited, and why a lot of wrestling fans recently subscribed to this premium service, presumably because they feel the same way.
Guest:Thank you again for writing to us.
Guest:I truly appreciate it.
Guest:And I really do.
Guest:That was beautifully said.
Guest:Oh, thanks, man.
Guest:And I really intended that specifically for Jeffrey, who wrote to us.
Guest:It was a heartfelt thing to him.
Guest:But I do also intend it for anyone who's listening to this that wonders...
Guest:If this is something that we are just screwing around with and that we haven't given it proper consideration, I hope you do come away with that understanding that we have thought about it and we continue to.
Guest:As Chris said, it's not a thing that goes away.
Guest:You're going to continue to think about it and make sure that you can justify the time you spend and invest in something like this.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I wish I had something more eloquent to say.
Marc:You seem to have, as always, nailed it.
Guest:Well, as much as I thank Jeffrey, I also want to thank other people who wrote in about this type of thing.
Guest:We got a comment in our Google form here.
Guest:And it says, just wanted to send a big thank you to you and Mark for the AEW storyline.
Guest:I'm a longtime listener and I've gotten my husband into WTF.
Guest:He's a big wrestling fan and we started watching AEW when it started, me knowing nothing about wrestling.
Guest:He really resonated with you and your comments about wrestling, especially being a lapsed fan and having AEW reawaken his love for wrestling.
Guest:Your inside knowledge shone through in the interviews, and it was much appreciated, as well as listening to Mark discover the joy of wrestling, similar to how my husband showed me the joy of wrestling.
Guest:And I thank you for that comment, because honestly, that's like the reason why we did the series in the first place.
Guest:It wasn't to get into wrestling.
Guest:It sure wasn't to start doing a wrestling show on Fridays.
Guest:God.
Guest:You know, I can use my enthusiasm for it to have Mark engage with something new.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:And if that resonated with people, that's great because that's actually what we set out to do.
Guest:We didn't set out to just do a wrestling show.
Guest:There was a similar comment we got from this was actually an email to the show.
Guest:It says, hi, Mark, listening to the Ask Mark Anything number six.
Guest:And someone just asked if you were doing the pro wrestling thing to take the focus off the middle aged female fan base.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:I would like to tell you as a middle-aged, same age as you, female, that I am over the moon about the wrestling material.
Guest:Very presumptuous of someone to assume that those of us who are around for the explosion of WWE in the 80s and who loved GLOW wouldn't enjoy this.
Guest:Just thought you and Brendan would want to know that.
Guest:Thanks, Sally.
Guest:Sally, I did want to know that.
Guest:That's super cool.
Guest:Like...
Guest:I really, other than seeing the numbers, I have no idea who's listening to this.
Guest:So it is great to put some kind of personalities behind the audience.
Guest:And I couldn't be more thrilled with that response, frankly.
Marc:I love that you, Brendan, and Mark, you...
Marc:You guys don't seem to understand how kind of like Mark in GLOW was really huge and got people into wrestling.
Guest:Yeah, Mark has definitely no understanding of that.
Marc:Zero.
Marc:It really boggles my mind, but even Aubrey, the referee we talked to last week, she was like, yeah, that's how I know Marc Maron was from GLOW.
Marc:And he ruled in GLOW.
Marc:And GLOW was great.
Marc:And absolutely agree with both of those points.
Marc:And, yeah, I'm sure there's a ton of people that got into wrestling because of GLOW and Marc as well.
Guest:Yeah, well, and I also think it's like if you were a wrestling fan, as I know because I am, when something like GLOW comes on, you're like, oh, I got to watch this.
Guest:I got to see if they nail it, right?
Guest:I got to see if they can translate the thing that I love, right?
Guest:Right.
Guest:I want to read two more things that I think are pretty cool.
Guest:This one came into our comment form.
Guest:Quick story.
Guest:I let my 11-year-old son listen to some of the interviews with Jericho, MJF, and Eddie Kingston.
Guest:Nice.
Guest:He was recently prescribed Zoloft around Christmas time for anxiety.
Guest:So letting him hear that someone he's seen perform was so open about those challenges and specifically saying I'm on Zoloft was a really important thing for him to hear.
Guest:So thank you.
Guest:That's awesome.
Guest:That is awesome.
Guest:And it's literally why I wanted us to talk to Eddie Kingston.
Guest:If you remember that interview, I mentioned to him at the start of it that they came to us at AEW with a bunch of people.
Guest:Oh, you want to talk to Sting?
Guest:Do you want to talk to Jungle Boy?
Guest:He's the son of Luke Perry.
Guest:And we obviously could have talked to anybody.
Guest:It would have been great talking to Sting.
Guest:It would have been great talking to Jungle Boy and any of the other people on the list they gave us.
Guest:But I said, can we actually talk to Eddie Kingston?
Guest:Because he's been public about his mental health issues.
Guest:He's been public about struggling and feeling like he was lost and that he was going to give up the business.
Guest:And I'm like, that's what we do on WTF.
Guest:That's the through line for almost everyone we've spoken to.
Guest:So I'm really glad that came through.
Guest:I feel like that's an email that we've gotten.
Guest:thousands of times just on the WTF side.
Marc:I'm sure people have said, oh my God, Mark, thank you for saying the words that were in my brain that I didn't even know were there.
Marc:You formulated them.
Marc:Sure thing.
Guest:It's literally the number one reason that we're still doing the show after 14 years.
Guest:We will get an email every once in a while.
Guest:Mark will forward it to me and he'll just say, this is why we're still doing it.
Guest:Sometimes it's things that people say, keep this private, please, or whatever.
Guest:So it's not necessarily anything I'm going to share.
Guest:But yeah, 100%, the feedback that we still get from people who say, this helps me, is the reason we're doing it.
Guest:I'm serious.
Guest:I could have gone and done something else.
Guest:A lot of years ago.
Guest:Like, a lot of years ago.
Guest:In terms of, like, professional accomplishments, I'm not going to probably get much better than booking the President of the United States for an interview in a guy's garage.
Guest:Like, that could have been the peak, right?
Guest:And we keep doing it because...
Guest:People say they get something out of this.
Guest:And it could be anything just from a nice little relief in their day to something hugely important.
Guest:Mark has said many times that people have written to him and said, your show kept me from killing myself.
Guest:That's a big deal.
Guest:And we don't take it lightly.
Guest:And I don't take it lightly that this person's 11-year-old son was able to hear that for the first time from a public person.
Guest:So it makes me feel good.
Marc:That's great that you sought out Eddie Kingston.
Marc:And I'm glad.
Marc:Yeah, that's really fantastic.
Marc:And if you haven't listened to that episode, you should definitely check that out because that was a really great interview.
Guest:Oh, here's a comment we got that is just a helpful bit of information that I did not know.
Guest:And I went and I looked it up.
Guest:I haven't found anything to 100% verify this, but the story is definitely around.
Guest:And so my guess is that it's from a book or something that I haven't found the direct source on it yet.
Guest:But this person wrote in to say, I'm sure plenty of people have contacted you about this.
Guest:Nope, you were the only one.
Guest:And thank you for doing it.
Guest:Funnily enough, the reason why the rings became so stiff, this person's referring to the WWF rings that we talked about were like super hard and that Vince finally changed them when he started to take bumps in them.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It says the reason the rings became so stiff is that Dick Ebersole...
Guest:didn't like how bouncy the ring looked during the main event.
Guest:Oh, no kidding.
Guest:The one we were watching and requested that they become more solid.
Guest:So that, I mean, I'd be interested to find more evidence around that or where the actual source of that story is.
Guest:Like all things in wrestling, it gets very fluid.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But that's a good additional bit of information that we didn't have.
Marc:That's great.
Guest:We got a lot of other stuff from all you folks who've been writing in, and you can go down to the Google form that's in our episode description down there.
Guest:Just click on it and send us something.
Guest:A lot of what you people have sent us were ideas for our Smartening Mark segment, which we will do again.
Guest:And I'm sure we will use some of the ideas you're sending in.
Guest:I really love the one, the person who wrote in about Sputnik Monroe.
Guest:Just to let you know, I really hadn't informed myself enough about that.
Guest:I just kind of knew the name.
Guest:And that's a great story.
Guest:So we will look forward to doing more things once we get Mark back on the Zoom here and watching some wrestling segments.
Marc:And keep sending in your comments, your suggestions.
Marc:And if you're new to WTF, there are so many episodes that I can recommend, like the Carlos Mencia episodes.
Marc:Brennan, you probably know what episode that is.
Guest:It's a two-parter, and it's episode 75 and 76.
Guest:So you people listening to this on the full Marin are the only ones who can hear that directly on your app ad free because it's not part of the free feed.
Guest:And anything, any YouTube versions of that are pirated and have ads in them and that.
Guest:So just on your full Marin right now, you scroll almost all the way back to the beginning, episode 75 and 76.
Marc:You will not be disappointed.
Marc:That is a fantastic interview and follow up interview.
Guest:It's almost like it's almost like a true crime documentary.
Guest:It really is.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It's like we found out this thing.
Guest:There was a swerve.
Guest:Mark had to investigate it more.
Guest:And then like the killer came back and admitted to the crime.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Highly recommend.
Guest:Please don't misquote me on that.
Guest:I'm not saying Carlos Mencia is a killer.
Guest:Uh, he definitely killed some jokes, but, uh, no, he did not kill anyone.
Guest:I'm making an analogy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Uh, great episodes though.
Marc:Please, please seek them out.
Marc:You will not be disappointed.
Marc:And, uh, let us know in, in that form, uh, how you liked it.
Guest:Well, thank you, Chris.
Guest:Well, you know, this has been a little bit of a different version of this, but I think every now and then we should afford ourselves the opportunity to address things that have a little more gravity to them.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:Than just the silliness of wrestling that we've been talking about.
Guest:And thanks again to Jeffrey for writing that email that spurred my response.
Guest:But before we go, let's talk about wrestling.
Guest:And we mentioned it.
Guest:I mentioned it at the beginning of the show.
Guest:The best thing that we saw this week, we were in agreement and it happened in my house.
Guest:You were over.
Guest:We were sitting on the couch.
Guest:We got in trouble with my family for being entirely too loud at about 11.45 at night.
Guest:But as I said to my wife, Dawn, and she agreed, she said, oh, I understand.
Guest:It was...
Guest:Basically a once-in-a-lifetime thing because we were watching what I said to Chris when it was over.
Guest:That might be one of the best wrestling matches I've ever seen in my life.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It might be one of the best of all time.
Guest:And this was part of the AEW Revolution pay-per-view.
Guest:Maxwell Jacob Friedman, MJF, who you have heard on this show, versus Bryan Danielson, who you heard me talk about in that email.
Guest:They had a 60-minute Ironman match that wound up actually going about 65 and change.
Guest:Sudden death?
Guest:Because it was tied, right?
Guest:They had to go to sudden death.
Guest:And Chris, how would you even, you, how would you even begin talking about this match?
Marc:It had everything.
Marc:It literally had everything.
Marc:It was a potpourri of what you want in wrestling.
Marc:There were submissions.
Marc:There was a table spot that looked like the best of Macho Man Randy Savage has ever done.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It had literally everything, including...
Marc:The bad guy throwing a drink on a poor, unsuspecting child.
Marc:I mean, it was... That was some heel heat, man.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:I can't believe that happened.
Guest:Well, I mean, MJF was just a phenomenal performer through the whole thing.
Guest:The real magic trick was they were able to go for 60 minutes with it paced well, and they still got it to peak at the right time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, we were screaming in my house that late at night because of them.
Marc:They got it to that level.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:With a 60 minute match, I'm just assuming because I don't think I've ever seen an Iron Man match, but I can assume that the crowd would be would ebb and, you know, and not be into it.
Marc:The crowd was into it the entire time.
Marc:And then sudden death happened.
Marc:And my God, the pops that were happening for the quick roll-ups.
Marc:And every time I thought that was the end of the match.
Marc:And, oh, it was perfect.
Guest:What a perfect goddamn match.
Guest:I want to give a little credit, too, while we're on here, to Excalibur and Taz and Tony Schiavone for being right there with them for all 60 minutes.
Guest:And they were...
Guest:perfect it might be the best wrestling match call in my life yeah uh you know in terms of a a high level main event match like that where they had to stay on the ball keep telling the story along with the wrestlers keep their enthusiasm for it up they peaked at the right time i mean these guys just did a phenomenal job for an
Guest:hour yeah to just sell this match that long for an hour also amazing job Bryce Remsburg the referee who as we talked to Aubrey last week it was you know that was going to be a a cardio bonanza how many times down yeah how many times was he counting one two like it was wild
Guest:There was that whole sequence where they were rolling each other up over and over again and it was just these one count, two count, one count, one count, two count.
Guest:Bryce slapping the mat over and over and over again.
Guest:He was as physical as the wrestlers were without drawing blood or anything.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I'll do you one further.
Marc:The camera work, the cameramen, it was perfection.
Marc:All the camera work from the guys on the side or the people on the side, the overhead shots, everything looked perfect.
Marc:just as perfect as it could possibly be.
Marc:They didn't miss one goddamn shot.
Guest:They fucking nailed it.
Guest:Everything we've been talking about, back to when I started doing this series with Mark, about why I enjoy it, is there on display in that match.
Guest:They told a one hour long story.
Guest:You could have read a scripted story that was as compelling as that for one hour.
Guest:And it was all with the physicality in the match, as well as the announcers and the production.
Guest:And the fans.
Guest:It all did it.
Marc:And the fans.
Marc:The fans.
Guest:The fans played their role, yeah.
Marc:This fan screaming H2O after MJF takes yet another drink of water and they chanting H2O was really like, oh yeah, we hit another level.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:And the water actually winds up paying off that he keeps going out for this water.
Guest:And and Taz, as the announcer is saying, he's going to blow himself up because he's taking too much in.
Guest:Like there's there's one thing about being dehydrated.
Guest:There's another thing about filling yourself up with water while you're trying to wrestle.
Guest:And he keeps pointing this out so that by the end of the match, they got to bring oxygen in for the right because he's done.
Guest:He's toast.
Guest:Well, now the oxygen tank is there.
Guest:In the same side of the ring that he was getting in the water.
Guest:Yes, and so that is what leads to the finish where he can slam the oxygen tank over Bryan Danielson's head.
Guest:I'm in awe.
Guest:I'm in awe of it.
Guest:It was phenomenal.
Marc:Yeah, some other of my favorite points were when it was finally 60 minutes and MJF taps out as soon as the ring happens and the match is called at that moment.
Marc:First of all, I thought he was going to accidentally tap out before the ring gets called because the crowd was like just like one second a little fast on their count and
Marc:So I thought he was going to go by their account because he's not looking at the account.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:But he did wait until he heard the ring.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then he taps out, which is just awesome.
Marc:But then I love Tony Schiavone taking the longest phone call from their boss, Tony Khan, to be like, what?
Marc:What's that?
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:And it's basically, yeah, guess what?
Marc:We're going to do sudden death.
Marc:That's all you had to say.
Guest:Yeah, go restart the match.
Guest:Also, well, the other thing that's hilarious about that, and I get it.
Guest:I've got no quarrel with this.
Guest:Milk it for all it's worth, right?
Guest:Keep the people waiting.
Guest:Let the anticipation build up.
Guest:Are they going to restart the match or whatever?
Guest:So I'm all good with that.
Guest:But they do this thing where, you know, Tony Schiavone is getting the sound in his headset from Tony Khan backstage that they're going to restart the match.
Guest:He says, okay, okay, yeah, yeah, I'll go down there and tell that he goes all the way from the upper part of the ramp all the way down to the ring.
Guest:He tells everybody, he tells the referee, he tells the ring announcer.
Guest:Now the ring announcer comes over to listen to Tony Schiavone, what Tony Schiavone is telling him, so that he can then say...
Guest:This match is going to continue.
Guest:We're going to sudden death.
Guest:What does the ring announcer, Justin Roberts, have in his ear as he is telling this to Tony Schiavone?
Marc:An earpiece.
Guest:An earpiece.
Guest:He could have been told just right then and there.
Marc:Wait, also, I love the referee just like being like, oh, wait, wait, so this is from Tony?
Marc:Tony Khan?
Marc:No, Soprano?
Marc:I don't know.
Yeah.
Guest:It was very much the tone of, uh, this is your cousin, Marvin Berry.
Marc:That ref was great.
Guest:By the way, when Bryce, he did an amazing job.
Marc:When, when MJF was, was like, basically like, Oh my God, I have to finish this.
Marc:I'm going to nail them with the, uh, with the, um, with the belt.
Marc:And he's like, look, be my guest.
Marc:He was basically like from beauty and the beast, be my guest, be my guest.
Marc:Um, and, uh,
Marc:Well, he told them.
Marc:He's like, I'll disqualify you.
Guest:Is that how you want it to be?
Marc:You'll lose the belt.
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:What a great goddamn match.
Marc:I mean, what were your highlights?
Marc:What was like your favorite part of that match?
Guest:You know, I wouldn't say it was my favorite, but a detail that stuck with me that I've been laughing about ever since was there was a point where MJF had Danielson on the outside of the ring.
Guest:And he went over to the crowd that was at the railing and he was forcing them to move.
Guest:He's saying, move out of the way.
Guest:We're moving his hands.
Guest:Tell him, move out of the way.
Guest:And all these fans who are there heckling him, right?
Guest:He's the heel.
Guest:They still
Guest:listen to him like they go okay and they moved out of the way and he grabs brian danielson by the tights and by the scruff of the neck you know the old heave ho that he's gonna take him and throw him over this barricade into the crowd and he grabs him he moves two paces and then he turns around and rolls him into the ring and then turns back around to the crowd that he just asked to move out of the way and double bird flips them off and then just nuclear heat onto him from that
Guest:That was, I'm not gonna say it's my favorite part, but days later, I was still chuckling about it.
Marc:The table spot for me, him going up there and just nailing that elbow onto the table, onto the ring announcer's table was great.
Marc:And then he comes back to it and does a tombstone onto the broken, the not so broken part of the table.
Wow.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Just really great.
Guest:And that was the part he actually got a pinfall off of.
Guest:Like once that happened.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:That was enough to show like, okay, he murdered him good.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's worth a pin.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I also loved, they were hitting each other and like they both fell down and Brian Danielson was laughing on his side of the face and MJF was bloody and crying on the other.
Marc:And that was- That part was poetry.
Guest:That was Sisma.
Guest:That was like-
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Like they were, they looked like, you know, the comedy and tragedy masks or like the Janice head going in two different directions.
Guest:Like that was beautiful.
Guest:I, I, and again, back to your point earlier of like props to the production crew and the camera operators and that they framed that shot perfectly.
Guest:They just, you, you saw them both leaning against each other.
Guest:And then the one shot had the one head.
Guest:The other shot had the other head laughing, crying blood on everybody.
Guest:It was perfect.
Marc:I actually just rewatched it, and I can because I have that app.
Marc:And I got to say, just a match I will definitely be coming back to time and time again.
Marc:A sumptuous meal.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Well, there won't be anything better for the rest of the week, so we can wrap it there.
Guest:And it probably won't be anything better for quite a number of months because I do think it will be one of the best matches of all time.
Guest:But that doesn't mean we won't be back next week.
Guest:We'll be back with more to cover.
Guest:And please continue to send us your thoughts, feedback, ideas.
Guest:Just scroll down to the episode description and click on it.
Guest:And we'll talk to you again on next Friday on The Friday Show.
Guest:This is Brendan, and that has been Chris.
Guest:Peace.
Guest:All right, take care.