BONUS Marc on Movies (with Kit!) - The Company of Wolves

00:01:18Marc:Right, but I thought I knew what they were for the most part, but I'm not even sure I know what they are, what the categories are, whether I've enjoyed some horror movies, what would be considered a horror movie.

00:01:30Marc:Oh, God.

00:01:31Marc:What?

00:01:31Guest:Yeah, I don't know some of these things either.

00:01:33Marc:No, I'm not looking to you as an expert.

00:01:36Marc:Okay.

00:01:36Marc:But you also enjoy fantasy movies.

00:01:38Marc:Yeah.

00:01:39Marc:And fantasy in general.

00:01:40Marc:Yeah.

00:01:41Marc:I would say that what is the sort of...

00:01:46Marc:The defining things for your choice of entertainment intake.

00:01:51Marc:What are the defining books and movies that you look to as, like, those are the best ones?

00:01:58Guest:Oh, okay.

00:01:59Marc:Well, you know, I'm not talking literature or whatever.

00:02:01Marc:I'm just talking, like, what you enjoy doing.

00:02:03Marc:Because, like, you listen to a—you just told me that—

00:02:07Marc:That you heard me do an ad on a D&D podcast.

00:02:09Guest:I did.

00:02:10Guest:I did just hear you do an ad on Dungeons and Daddies.

00:02:13Marc:Dungeons and Daddies.

00:02:13Marc:See, this is something you listen to.

00:02:15Marc:Yeah.

00:02:15Marc:And I don't even know what it means.

00:02:17Guest:Well, that's, I mean, live action tabletop role plays are like a whole podcast genre these days.

00:02:24Marc:But it's also a whole thing.

00:02:25Guest:Yeah.

00:02:26Marc:What do you call it?

00:02:27Marc:Live action tabletop role play.

00:02:29Guest:Yeah, role play games.

00:02:30Guest:Yeah.

00:02:30Marc:Is something in your past and something you'd like in your present.

00:02:34Guest:Oh, my God.

00:02:34Guest:I wish I had a Dungeons and Dragons group.

00:02:36Marc:Oh, this might be the time.

00:02:37Marc:It might happen for you.

00:02:39Guest:Los Angeles.

00:02:40Guest:Hello.

00:02:42Marc:Kit Pleasant needs a D&D game.

00:02:43Guest:Yeah, that would be cool.

00:02:44Marc:She's jonesing for a live-action role-play board game.

00:02:48Guest:I feel like you could maybe have one.

00:02:50Guest:No, you wouldn't.

00:02:51Marc:You wouldn't.

00:02:52Marc:I've talked about it before.

00:02:54Marc:Go ahead.

00:02:54Guest:About playing D&D?

00:02:55Marc:Someone gave me the dice.

00:02:56Guest:I remember that.

00:02:57Guest:I remember that.

00:02:58Guest:I made Sammy roll them, or Charlie.

00:03:00Guest:I made one of the cats roll them while you were babysitting.

00:03:03Marc:Oh, is that why I'm missing one?

00:03:04Guest:Yeah.

00:03:05Marc:Is that why one's gone?

00:03:06Guest:Yeah, I think one fell off your desk while we were playing with it.

00:03:08Marc:I've lost one of my D&D dyes.

00:03:11Marc:But did you play when did you play it all in college?

00:03:15Marc:Oh, really?

00:03:16Guest:Yeah.

00:03:16Guest:That was like my my Sunday 10 hour activity every Sunday is hanging out with nine other people in a massive D&D game of college kids.

00:03:24Marc:Wow.

00:03:25Marc:That's massive.

00:03:26Marc:Yeah.

00:03:26Marc:Nine people.

00:03:27Guest:Yeah, I think it was including the DM.

00:03:30Guest:I think it was a 10 person group.

00:03:31Marc:I don't know anything about the structure of that.

00:03:33Marc:Okay, so that's one sort of pillar of the Kip Pleasant aesthetic.

00:03:38Marc:The Kip Pleasant aesthetic.

00:03:40Marc:Aesthetic.

00:03:40Marc:Okay.

00:03:40Marc:And through your dad, we have classic rock.

00:03:42Marc:So we have classic rock, D&D.

00:03:45Marc:Yeah.

00:03:46Marc:And then there's a Star Trek thing that is referred to a lot that I, again, I can't engage with, but it's not an age thing.

00:03:53Guest:It's literally— It's definitely not an age thing.

00:03:55Guest:I know.

00:03:56Guest:Because it's been around since, like.

00:03:58Marc:Yeah.

00:03:59Marc:But you draw a line.

00:04:00Marc:There's, like, Star Treks you like.

00:04:02Marc:Like, you don't talk ever about the original series.

00:04:05Guest:About the William Shatner Star Trek?

00:04:06Marc:Yeah.

00:04:06Guest:Yeah.

00:04:06Guest:No, well, I didn't grow up with that one.

00:04:08Guest:I grew up with the Patrick Stewart Star Trek.

00:04:11Marc:You grew up with that.

00:04:11Guest:I grew up with that, yeah.

00:04:12Marc:But if you're hardcore, you'll go back.

00:04:15Marc:Oh, for sure.

00:04:16Marc:Did you watch all the original?

00:04:17Guest:Yeah, I've watched all the originals.

00:04:19Guest:Yeah.

00:04:20Guest:We did not watch all the original.

00:04:22Guest:I like the originals, too.

00:04:23Marc:All right, all right.

00:04:23Guest:Yeah.

00:04:24Marc:But Patrick Stewart's your guy.

00:04:26Marc:Absolutely.

00:04:26Marc:All right.

00:04:27Marc:So now this brings us over to horror.

00:04:31Guest:Yeah.

00:04:32Marc:Now, for me, like my brother, when we were kids, he liked horror.

00:04:35Guest:Your brother likes horror?

00:04:36Guest:Does he still like horror?

00:04:37Marc:He did.

00:04:37Marc:I don't know if he does anymore.

00:04:39Marc:But he was sort of – he was kind of geared towards the classics like Phantom of the Opera, The Wolfman, the old black and white stuff.

00:04:46Guest:He liked monster movies?

00:04:48Guest:Yeah.

00:04:48Marc:Monster movies.

00:04:49Marc:That's a horror thing.

00:04:50Marc:Oh, but wait.

00:04:51Marc:Marvel Universe.

00:04:52Marc:Not for you.

00:04:53Guest:Not for me.

00:04:53Marc:Good.

00:04:54Marc:All right.

00:04:54Marc:So for some reason, I can tolerate sci-fi fandom over Marvel movies.

00:05:02Guest:I just don't do superheroes.

00:05:03Guest:I just don't give a fuck.

00:05:04Marc:Yeah.

00:05:05Marc:They're not impressive.

00:05:06Marc:No.

00:05:06Marc:Why, it's boy stuff?

00:05:08Guest:No, that's not at all what it is.

00:05:10Guest:No, it's just it lacks nuance.

00:05:13Guest:And nowadays, I'm sure it doesn't.

00:05:15Guest:Nowadays, I'm sure that if I got into it, I'd get into it.

00:05:19Guest:Well, yeah, I'm sure they're intelligent, intellectual writers coming out with good stuff in the print comics.

00:05:28Marc:Oh, the print comics.

00:05:29Guest:Yeah, I'm sure there's some good stuff out there.

00:05:32Marc:So my...

00:05:33Marc:Any sort of sort of dabbling with fantasy around this kind of stuff in comics.

00:05:40Guest:Yeah.

00:05:40Marc:Was it was helpful.

00:05:41Marc:Like when Neil Gaiman was on, you almost lost your mind.

00:05:43Guest:Yeah, I did fucking lose my mind when Neil Gaiman was on.

00:05:46Marc:You had to come over and meet him.

00:05:47Guest:I did.

00:05:47Guest:Well, he his books raised me, I think, from like age 13.

00:05:52Marc:Really?

00:05:52Marc:Which ones?

00:05:53Guest:I mean, my first Neil Gaiman book was Coraline when I was a little kid.

00:05:58Marc:Yeah.

00:05:58Guest:Because that's a kid's book.

00:05:59Marc:Right.

00:06:00Guest:Yeah.

00:06:00Guest:And then Good Omens, which she did in collab with Terry Pratchett.

00:06:04Marc:Right.

00:06:04Guest:It's fucking hilarious.

00:06:05Guest:Yeah.

00:06:06Guest:That blew my middle school mind.

00:06:07Marc:Yeah.

00:06:08Guest:I mean, did you read—I know you didn't read that, but did you read Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy when you were a kid?

00:06:14Yeah.

00:06:14Marc:You know, I didn't.

00:06:15Marc:I knew it was there.

00:06:16Guest:You knew it was there.

00:06:17Marc:Yeah.

00:06:17Marc:And I knew that it was like a thing to read and many types of people liked it.

00:06:21Guest:Similarly, English and silly.

00:06:25Guest:Yeah.

00:06:26Marc:I have a hard time with English and silly.

00:06:27Guest:Terry Pratchett is so good at it, though, because he's got so much heart.

00:06:30Marc:Okay, so there's that.

00:06:31Marc:That was important.

00:06:33Marc:I'm glad we caught that one.

00:06:34Guest:Yeah, and then the Sandman comics was... Sandman, I read that from the beginning.

00:06:38Marc:I know, I did too.

00:06:39Guest:You read that while you were on cocaine, and I read that while I was going through puberty, so we were both in altered states of mind.

00:06:47Marc:That might be right.

00:06:47Marc:When did it first come out?

00:06:49Marc:The 80s.

00:06:50Marc:Yeah, I think, well, I...

00:06:53Marc:I feel like I got into that stuff when I was newly sober.

00:06:58Marc:It didn't stick, though, that time.

00:06:59Marc:You definitely told me that you— Well, that's because I was out of my mind, and I thought Hellblazer was kind of about me.

00:07:04Guest:And you got very mystical about it, yeah.

00:07:06Marc:Yeah, it kind of played into the big conspiracy.

00:07:10Guest:What was the big conspiracy?

00:07:12Marc:You know, that was all connected and magic was real.

00:07:14Guest:And you were John Constantine?

00:07:18Marc:Not as active.

00:07:18Guest:Not as active.

00:07:20Marc:But ready to activate if necessary.

00:07:23Guest:Sleeper agent.

00:07:24Marc:I was.

00:07:24Marc:Okay.

00:07:27Marc:So, but horror, I don't know, like I can't, like I was trying to think like if I even was going to name horror movies that had an impact on me.

00:07:38Marc:Like that I remember and think like that, you know, like Aliens, Alien.

00:07:43Guest:You've got that photo of that movie that I have yet to see, which I really ought to, the Freak Show movie.

00:07:49Guest:Freaks?

00:07:49Guest:Freaks, you've got that in your den.

00:07:51Marc:Is that a horror movie?

00:07:52Guest:Would you call it a horror movie?

00:07:53Guest:I haven't seen it.

00:07:54Marc:I thought it was.

00:07:54Guest:I think it's categorized as such by a lot of people.

00:07:57Marc:I guess because, you know, it's about these human anomalies, these circus entertainers, these freaks.

00:08:05Marc:And yeah, and the story, do you know the story?

00:08:09Guest:Well, yeah, I know the story.

00:08:10Guest:I just haven't seen it.

00:08:11Guest:But my understanding is it's less about the horror of their physical.

00:08:14Guest:No, it's more about humanity and being.

00:08:17Marc:It's about their humanity.

00:08:18Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:08:18Marc:And literally dragging someone down to their level.

00:08:21Marc:Right.

00:08:21Guest:I've seen the.

00:08:22Marc:Or their perceived level.

00:08:24Guest:I've seen the still shots.

00:08:25Guest:Of chicken lady?

00:08:25Guest:Yeah, duck lady or whatever.

00:08:27Marc:Yeah.

00:08:27Guest:Fucked up.

00:08:28Marc:It's good.

00:08:29Guest:Dig it, yeah.

00:08:29Marc:So, yeah, that was an important movie.

00:08:31Marc:But I think, like, Alien.

00:08:33Marc:Alien.

00:08:33Marc:I think The Fly, The New Fly.

00:08:35Marc:Oh, that one's fun.

00:08:36Marc:I remember being profoundly affected by the John Carpenter's thing.

00:08:42Marc:Were you?

00:08:42Marc:Because these came out when I was a kid.

00:08:44Marc:I love John Carpenter's thing.

00:08:45Marc:I wasn't a kid.

00:08:46Guest:I love John Carpenter.

00:08:47Guest:Yeah, it was the 80s.

00:08:49Guest:Did it scare you or was it just fucked up?

00:08:51Marc:No, I just thought it was like the effects of it and like the thing, just like when you see the guy in the thing.

00:08:56Marc:That dog.

00:08:57Guest:That dog.

00:08:58Marc:Oh, when he breaks open?

00:09:00Guest:Jeb the wolf dog with that dog actor's name.

00:09:02Guest:I believe that that was, I believe that your friend Patton's wife acted with that dog in a movie.

00:09:08Marc:Yeah.

00:09:08Guest:That was a prolific canine actor.

00:09:10Marc:The current wife.

00:09:10Marc:Yeah.

00:09:11Marc:Oh, wow.

00:09:11Marc:Yeah.

00:09:12Guest:Yeah.

00:09:12Marc:Yeah.

00:09:14Marc:Well, Patton, it would seem to me that you and Patton could hang out for days and just go into it.

00:09:19Guest:I've never met him, but I've eaten a lot of the ice cream he sent you, so thank you for that.

00:09:24Marc:You could just go into a nerd hole with Patton, a nerd cave.

00:09:28Guest:I can't really.

00:09:29Guest:You can't do that for days on end.

00:09:31Guest:You come out something foul, you turn into something unwanted.

00:09:35Yeah.

00:09:36Marc:No one wants you.

00:09:37Guest:People leaving conventions after four days.

00:09:40Marc:Well, yeah, the conventions.

00:09:41Marc:Oh, I miss those.

00:09:42Marc:Yeah?

00:09:43Marc:Yeah.

00:09:43Marc:Which ones were your favorite?

00:09:44Guest:Dragon Con in Atlanta.

00:09:46Marc:Yeah?

00:09:47Marc:Yeah.

00:09:47Guest:And Gen Con in Indianapolis.

00:09:49Marc:Yeah?

00:09:49Marc:Yeah.

00:09:50Marc:I think I was in Indianapolis for a con doing a comedy.

00:09:53Guest:I think you were.

00:09:53Guest:I think you were doing a show while Gen Con was happening like last year or something.

00:09:58Guest:I think that's right.

00:09:58Guest:And I remember being upset that I hadn't realized that in advance and asked to come with you because I would have just gone to the convention.

00:10:05Marc:I think there was one in Madison, but it was like a female fantasy convention.

00:10:10Guest:Oh, I don't think I know that one.

00:10:11Marc:Yeah, it seemed like a smaller one.

00:10:13Marc:They were in the hotel, and I just felt like this weird enemy of some kind.

00:10:20Marc:Who's the man-man?

00:10:21Yeah.

00:10:21Guest:I've never been to a female fantasy convention.

00:10:24Marc:I think that's what it was.

00:10:25Marc:That's cool.

00:10:27Marc:All right.

00:10:28Marc:So I remember those movies.

00:10:29Marc:Yeah.

00:10:30Marc:But I've seen other movies.

00:10:32Marc:But horror, the umbrella, there's thrillers are within it to some of them.

00:10:37Guest:Yeah.

00:10:37Marc:Right?

00:10:38Marc:Uh-huh.

00:10:38Marc:But, you know, slasher movies are not your bag?

00:10:41Guest:Not so much.

00:10:42Guest:I love the Freddy Krueger movies.

00:10:44Marc:Oh, really?

00:10:44Guest:I do.

00:10:45Marc:That's not a monster movie.

00:10:46Marc:That's because he's wearing a mask.

00:10:47Guest:No, well, no.

00:10:48Guest:I mean, it is.

00:10:50Guest:Is it a monster?

00:10:50Marc:I don't guess not.

00:10:51Guest:It's like he's a guy.

00:10:53Guest:It's a murderer movie.

00:10:54Guest:Yeah, it's a murderer movie.

00:10:55Guest:It's a slasher movie, I think.

00:10:56Guest:It's got some definitely fantasy elements.

00:11:00Marc:I'm flashing on The Vanishing, that movie.

00:11:04Marc:Did you watch the original one?

00:11:05Marc:I think it's Swedish.

00:11:06Marc:I know they remade it.

00:11:07Guest:I didn't watch the original one, I don't think.

00:11:10Marc:Yeah, because we talked about that maybe watching that.

00:11:14Marc:Like this movie, like when I said, all right, I'm going to learn about horror.

00:11:19Marc:I'm going to try to connect with it.

00:11:21Marc:I really anticipated something I would know or that I was familiar with.

00:11:25Marc:I anticipated you'd recommend something that like, you know, had some some like, you know, like jarring, you know, like I anticipated at least being able to suspend my disbelief enough to be, you know, a little engaged.

00:11:40Guest:Oh, no, you were not engaged.

00:11:42Guest:I knew you wouldn't like this one.

00:11:44Guest:I don't know if I didn't like it.

00:11:46Marc:But the movie is in the company of wolves.

00:11:50Guest:Yes.

00:11:51Marc:And I looked it up before I watched it.

00:11:52Marc:Neil Jordan, who did, I think, did The Crying Game.

00:11:54Guest:The Crying Game.

00:11:56Marc:Yeah.

00:11:56Marc:And that guy, I think his name is Stephen Ray, is in this movie.

00:11:58Marc:Yeah, he is.

00:11:59Marc:For a minute.

00:12:00Marc:And also the guy who I always remember as the guy David Warner.

00:12:06Guest:Yeah.

00:12:06Marc:I always remember him as the guy at the end of Straw Dogs.

00:12:10Marc:Right.

00:12:10Marc:The Sam Peckinpah movie where they leave, he leaves with Dustin Hoffman.

00:12:14Marc:He was one of the locals that was ostracized because he was a little molesty.

00:12:19Marc:And all the other, you know, kind of alpha bros who terrorized Dustin Hoffman and raped his wife and he had to beat them back with mathematics.

00:12:28Marc:You know, he...

00:12:31Marc:And he drives away in the end with David Warren.

00:12:34Guest:I hope you explain that movie to someone that way one day.

00:12:37Guest:It's about Dustin Hoffman's wife getting raped and he has to fight them with mathematics.

00:12:42Marc:Basically.

00:12:43Marc:Weird engineering skills.

00:12:45Marc:Yeah, I mean, you're not wrong.

00:12:47Marc:It's like the revenge of the nerd.

00:12:49Yeah.

00:12:49Guest:Well, no, it's not.

00:12:50Guest:It's much better than that film.

00:12:53Marc:I'm a singular nerd.

00:12:54Marc:Yeah.

00:12:55Marc:But so you give me this in The Company of Wolves, which right away I'm like, what is this?

00:13:01Marc:Yeah.

00:13:01Marc:It's a girl sleeping.

00:13:02Marc:Is this a dream now?

00:13:04Marc:And the color and everything about it is very heightened.

00:13:07Marc:It almost looks like a puppet show.

00:13:09Guest:Absolutely.

00:13:10Marc:Absolutely.

00:13:11Marc:And I'm waiting for the horror part.

00:13:12Marc:And then it starts to unfold.

00:13:14Marc:I'm like, is this Little Red Riding Hood?

00:13:16Yeah.

00:13:16Guest:Yes.

00:13:19Guest:Yes, it is.

00:13:19Guest:In my defense, I had a whole system where I was going to, like, offer you movies to choose from.

00:13:26Guest:And you were like, just name one.

00:13:27Guest:Just name one.

00:13:28Guest:And so I named one.

00:13:29Marc:This is the one you pick of the whole catalog because it must have an impact on you.

00:13:33Marc:So what I got out of it.

00:13:34Guest:It's extremely fucked up and no one talks about it.

00:13:36Guest:And I'm obsessed with it.

00:13:37Guest:So I thought it'd be a good one to.

00:13:38Marc:Yeah.

00:13:39Guest:Yeah.

00:13:40Marc:OK, well, like what I noticed right away is, OK, so it's English.

00:13:45Marc:It was a contemporary family at the beginning.

00:13:47Marc:Yeah.

00:13:48Marc:And there's a sister and there's another one in bed who, in retrospect, I think might be ill.

00:13:53Guest:She's so I think if we're setting up the movie for people who haven't seen it.

00:13:58Guest:And by the way, it's free to watch with ads on YouTube and occasionally free on Shudder.

00:14:03Guest:It seems to come and go.

00:14:04Guest:Yeah.

00:14:04Guest:No, like literally I was trying to watch it the other day to like get ready for talking to you about this.

00:14:10Guest:And I watched 30 minutes of it on Shudder and then had to go do something.

00:14:14Guest:And when I came back to Shudder later in the afternoon, I couldn't find it anymore.

00:14:17Guest:I finished it on YouTube.

00:14:19Guest:Yeah.

00:14:20Guest:So it opens, it's filmed in 1986 and it, or 1984, excuse me.

00:14:27Guest:And it opens in some like rural English, you know, country house.

00:14:32Marc:Yeah.

00:14:32Guest:There's like a mom and dad who've just been to the grocery store.

00:14:36Marc:Those are always good for murders and stuff.

00:14:37Marc:Yeah.

00:14:38Marc:The rural English.

00:14:39Marc:Didn't we go see a horror movie?

00:14:40Marc:Men.

00:14:41Marc:Men.

00:14:41Marc:Yeah.

00:14:42Marc:That was fun.

00:14:42Marc:And you said that was actually a genre.

00:14:44Marc:Folk horror.

00:14:45Marc:Yeah.

00:14:45Marc:Folk horror.

00:14:46Yeah.

00:14:46Marc:You like that?

00:14:47Guest:I love folk horror.

00:14:48Guest:The Wicker Man is folk horror.

00:14:49Marc:Yeah, that's good.

00:14:50Marc:I remember seeing the original Wicker Man.

00:14:52Guest:You've seen the Nicolas Cage one and not the original one?

00:14:54Marc:No, I've seen the original one.

00:14:55Guest:Oh, okay.

00:14:56Guest:You've seen the original one.

00:14:56Marc:I don't think I've seen the Nicolas Cage one.

00:14:58Guest:That's just fine.

00:14:58Marc:Yeah.

00:14:59Marc:I saw the Christopher Lee one.

00:15:01Marc:Yeah.

00:15:01Guest:Fun.

00:15:02Marc:Yeah.

00:15:02Marc:Fun.

00:15:03Guest:Yeah.

00:15:04Guest:Raunchy.

00:15:04Marc:Funny.

00:15:05Marc:We saw some of those.

00:15:06Marc:What about Texas Chainsaw Massacre stuff?

00:15:08Marc:What about the campy kind of B-movie?

00:15:11Marc:What do you call those?

00:15:12Marc:Grindr house movies?

00:15:13Guest:Grindhouse movies.

00:15:14Guest:Yeah, no, that's why I like I don't like when you when you like called me a horror nerd or a horror expert to someone like in just like a friend the other day.

00:15:25Guest:And I was like, I'm not one.

00:15:26Guest:I'm not one because I've never seen the Texas Chainsaw Massacre because I'm just not I'm more.

00:15:30Marc:It's a dirty movie.

00:15:32Guest:Yeah, sure.

00:15:33Guest:But but I should watch it.

00:15:35Guest:I know that that's.

00:15:36Marc:All right.

00:15:36Marc:So we're at an English country house.

00:15:38Guest:Yeah.

00:15:38Guest:So we're in an English country house and there's like a mom and dad that just came back from the grocery store.

00:15:43Guest:There's an older daughter.

00:15:46Guest:And I think the idea is that maybe she and the younger sister have just had some kind of fights.

00:15:53Guest:And now the younger like tween sister is up in her room in the top floor of this weird old.

00:16:00Marc:Tossing and turning.

00:16:01Guest:Tossing and turning.

00:16:02Marc:In bed.

00:16:04Marc:Yeah.

00:16:04Marc:And she never comes out.

00:16:05Marc:They're always sort of like, I don't know what's right.

00:16:07Guest:So the idea is having a dream, I think.

00:16:09Marc:No, I know.

00:16:09Marc:But I get the idea of how the family characterizes her.

00:16:13Marc:She's of that age where she's emotional, maybe the beginning of puberty.

00:16:16Marc:Yeah.

00:16:17Marc:And, you know, they're unpredictable and they just kind of abide by her.

00:16:21Marc:You know, her mood.

00:16:23Marc:Yeah.

00:16:23Guest:I mean, the whole movie is basically about puberty and it's such a fucking weird movie because, like, really the ideal person to be watching that movie is a 13 or 14 year old girl.

00:16:35Guest:Yeah.

00:16:36Guest:And it's rated R. Right.

00:16:38Marc:Interesting.

00:16:39Marc:Okay.

00:16:40Marc:Yeah, because right out of the gate, she's sweaty and dreaming.

00:16:43Marc:And then we go into this dream world where her sister is eaten by wolves immediately.

00:16:48Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:16:49Guest:Well, she's walking through this forest.

00:16:51Guest:It's something that Labyrinth did two years later, like kind of did with the same opening montage where she's got all of these little toys in her bedroom that reflect what's going to happen later.

00:17:01Guest:She's got a little puppet of Angela Lance.

00:17:03Guest:Yeah, she's got toys that come to life in the creepy forest and start chasing her older sister.

00:17:08Guest:There's a little doll that looks exactly like the Angela Lansbury character.

00:17:12Marc:Okay, yeah.

00:17:13Guest:She's, you know, all that kind of thing.

00:17:15Guest:Yeah.

00:17:16Guest:It's heavily, like, it really, like, loads up the imagery.

00:17:21Guest:It's fucking sumptuous to watch.

00:17:24Guest:I can see that.

00:17:25Marc:Yeah.

00:17:25Marc:I mean, and there's all kinds of bugs and animals.

00:17:27Marc:Yeah.

00:17:28Marc:Hedgehogs, spiders, snakes, things that don't belong in an English forest.

00:17:31Marc:Yeah.

00:17:32Marc:It's just...

00:17:33Marc:But I guess they would belong in a pubescent girl's dream.

00:17:37Guest:Right.

00:17:38Guest:Right.

00:17:38Marc:So they're all over the place.

00:17:39Marc:There's just like bugs and weird animals everywhere hanging from trees and everything.

00:17:43Marc:Yeah.

00:17:44Marc:And then the wolves, it almost has the look of of an animatronic department store display.

00:17:51Guest:I know.

00:17:52Guest:That's what I love.

00:17:53Guest:No, that's what I love.

00:17:54Guest:I love the uncanny valley of the whole fucking thing.

00:17:57Guest:Because it was done on a shoestring budget.

00:17:59Guest:I think that Neil Jordan was quoted as saying something like they had a soundstage and 12 polyester or fake trees to work with, 12 plaster trees to work with.

00:18:11Marc:Oh, really?

00:18:12Marc:Yeah.

00:18:12Guest:And they just had to be really inventive in how they dressed the set and in how they framed each shot so it didn't look like the same fucking 12 trees every time.

00:18:23Guest:It looked like a forest that people were traveling through.

00:18:25Guest:It looks all studio.

00:18:25Guest:It's all studio.

00:18:26Guest:It's all studio.

00:18:27Guest:It looks fake.

00:18:28Guest:And it is kind of cheap.

00:18:30Guest:But, like, it's made so joyful.

00:18:32Guest:You can tell that everyone, like, all of the craftspeople involved, like, even the ones who are, like, really, like, you can tell that a bunch of the people, including, like, Neil Jordan and including, like, the author who wrote the collection of short stories and had never worked on a movie adaptation before.

00:18:51Guest:Yeah.

00:18:52Guest:And the lead girl.

00:18:54Guest:And I'm sure a bunch of the craftspeople, too.

00:18:56Guest:But you can tell that a bunch of people are early on in their careers.

00:19:00Guest:Right.

00:19:00Guest:And just, like, really putting their heart into work.

00:19:02Guest:What they're producing, you know, like it's fun to watch 12 trees and one guy with access to a wide variety of exotic animals.

00:19:14Marc:Yeah.

00:19:14Guest:And like one animatronic wolf to do that much on a bunch of dogs.

00:19:19Guest:Yeah.

00:19:19Marc:Yeah, a bunch of dogs.

00:19:20Marc:And also, well, I mean, I get what you're saying.

00:19:23Marc:But to me, like, because I'm not I can't like shift into like labyrinth.

00:19:28Marc:I kind of remember and all that stuff.

00:19:29Marc:I don't I don't check out entirely.

00:19:32Marc:Yeah.

00:19:33Marc:But it doesn't it doesn't interface with me in a way that I can be forgiving.

00:19:38Marc:So, like, there's part of me that's sort of like, this is silly.

00:19:41Marc:Look at this poor guy in this get up.

00:19:43Guest:Do you know what I mean?

00:19:44Guest:There's a lot of that.

00:19:46Guest:Honestly, like I found this movie at random and I was embarrassed to tell people I liked it for like the first fucking year.

00:19:55Guest:Like I knew that it would I knew that it had moved up into my my top 10 favorite films.

00:20:01Guest:Huh.

00:20:02Guest:But I didn't want to say that to anyone because it's not it's not a classic.

00:20:06Marc:No, but no, I don't know that anybody puts it... I mean, the guy's a real director.

00:20:11Marc:These are real people.

00:20:12Marc:I just remember another horror movie that I like and I saw that.

00:20:16Marc:Ravenous.

00:20:17Guest:I haven't seen that.

00:20:19Marc:I didn't make you watch that?

00:20:20Marc:No.

00:20:20Marc:About the cannibals?

00:20:21Marc:No.

00:20:22Marc:About the...

00:20:22Marc:It's based on the expedition across country in America and the settlers that got trapped in the cold.

00:20:34Guest:I think I came over one night and you had just finished watching it.

00:20:38Marc:I think I bought it, didn't I?

00:20:39Marc:Yeah, we could watch it sometime.

00:20:40Marc:It's with Guy Pearce and Jeffrey, creepy Jeffrey, what's his name?

00:20:44Guest:I'll watch that with you.

00:20:45Marc:What's that guy's name?

00:20:46Marc:I don't know.

00:20:47Marc:From Ferris Bueller, he played the principal Jeffrey.

00:20:50Guest:Oh, him?

00:20:51Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:20:51Marc:Oh.

00:20:52Marc:He's great.

00:20:53Guest:Isn't he?

00:20:54Marc:Yeah, yeah, he's in trouble.

00:20:56Marc:Yeah.

00:20:58Marc:Yeah, he's no longer in the mix.

00:21:00Guest:Well, I mean, yeah, he's definitely a creepo.

00:21:02Marc:Yeah, that's true.

00:21:04Marc:But that's definitely a horror movie.

00:21:05Marc:Yeah.

00:21:06Marc:Yeah, the cannibals.

00:21:08Guest:My favorite horror movies with the exception of The Shining, which is a cliche favorite horror movie to have, but I'm fucking in love with it.

00:21:14Guest:But my favorite horror movies all like...

00:21:16Guest:tread like a middle like a weird are they horror are they not like I fucking love the company of wolves I fucking love Jan Svanmacher's Alice which is just a stop motion live action Alice in Wonderland adaptation but it's so horrific like I count it as horror I love Sleepwalk by Sarah Driver which is another 80s movie and it's more magical realism than anything but I kind of consider it horror I don't know so in this movie

00:21:44Marc:We can we can.

00:21:45Marc:It sounds like I have my work cut out for me.

00:21:47Guest:Oh, geez.

00:21:49Marc:In this movie.

00:21:50Marc:So it's like it's the grandmother.

00:21:52Marc:Yeah.

00:21:53Marc:At some point when she's knitting the red shawl, I'm like, oh, OK.

00:21:58Marc:All right.

00:21:58Marc:She's a little red riding hood, kind of.

00:22:00Marc:But now what we're actually seeing is, oh, why wouldn't she integrate that story into her dreams?

00:22:05Marc:Right.

00:22:05Marc:Little Red Riding Hood separately.

00:22:07Marc:And whatever the fantasy is about her sister, clearly there's tension, the standard sister tension.

00:22:13Marc:So she disappears, it gets eaten by wolves, and then it starts to resolve itself that you start to realize that her sister probably became a wolf, right?

00:22:20Guest:No, I think her sister actually got eaten by wolves.

00:22:23Guest:But I think it's all dream logic and it's all adolescent girl logic.

00:22:27Guest:I think the older sister isn't like so much a literal older sister.

00:22:32Guest:She just kind of represents becoming a woman and the dangers inherent in that.

00:22:38Marc:Well, the grandmother won't shut up about it.

00:22:39Guest:Yeah, the grandmother won't shut up about it.

00:22:41Guest:The whole, I mean, the whole movie is just a collection of warnings for girls turning into women.

00:22:49Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:22:50Yeah.

00:22:50Marc:Right, and a lot of it has to do with the monobrow.

00:22:54Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:22:55Marc:The connected eyebrow.

00:22:56Guest:Can't trust unibrow.

00:22:57Marc:Yeah.

00:22:58Guest:Yeah.

00:23:00Marc:It's like over and over again.

00:23:01Marc:Unibrow's bad.

00:23:03Guest:Unibrow's bad.

00:23:06Marc:So I understand your passion for the movie and why.

00:23:09Marc:Yeah.

00:23:10Marc:So you are able to be forgiving with the ridiculous wolf effects.

00:23:16Marc:Yeah.

00:23:16Marc:Wolf noses coming out of mouths.

00:23:18Guest:Because if I made that fucking wolf nose coming out of that fucking mouth, I'd be so proud of myself.

00:23:23Guest:Yeah.

00:23:23Guest:Like, I don't care that it doesn't look.

00:23:26Guest:It's fucking tight, you know, like it's an animatronic that someone put so much love into, like all of those freaky little red tendons.

00:23:35Marc:Right.

00:23:36Marc:So part of it is stagecraft.

00:23:38Guest:Yes.

00:23:39Marc:And also the appreciation of what do you call them?

00:23:42Marc:Practical effects?

00:23:43Guest:Practical effects.

00:23:44Marc:Yeah.

00:23:44Marc:Which is like there's no CGI.

00:23:47Marc:There's no going back into the film.

00:23:48Marc:There's no computer at this point.

00:23:51Marc:It's all on film.

00:23:52Marc:They're scrappy and they're just, yeah, I appreciate the... So it's maybe a little primitive, but not primitive for stage work.

00:24:00Marc:Right.

00:24:00Marc:But for film work, it's sort of different.

00:24:02Marc:Yeah.

00:24:04Marc:But yeah, I mean, I saw American Werewolf in London.

00:24:06Marc:What was the other big wolf movie where people turned into wolves around this era?

00:24:11Marc:What the fuck was it called?

00:24:12Guest:There was Ginger Snaps, but that was like the...

00:24:14Marc:No.

00:24:15Marc:It was another one that had similar effects with one word title.

00:24:19Marc:I can't remember.

00:24:20Guest:One word title.

00:24:21Guest:Wolf with Jack Nicholson?

00:24:22Marc:No, no, no.

00:24:23Marc:That was silly, too.

00:24:25Marc:It was silly.

00:24:25Marc:People turning into wolves is still dicey, no matter how good the effects are.

00:24:29Marc:You know what I mean?

00:24:30Marc:I saw Benicio del Toro's werewolf movie, and that was pretty new.

00:24:35Guest:Oh, that was the one with Hugo Weaving as the inspector, right?

00:24:40Yeah.

00:24:40Marc:Yeah, what is it called?

00:24:41Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:24:41Marc:Yeah, maybe.

00:24:42Marc:But what's the old one I'm thinking of?

00:24:44Guest:Wolfen?

00:24:45Marc:Maybe.

00:24:45Marc:The Howling?

00:24:46Marc:The Howling, yeah.

00:24:47Marc:The Howling.

00:24:47Marc:Yeah, that's it.

00:24:49Marc:Yeah.

00:24:50Marc:Right?

00:24:50Marc:Dee Wallace, yeah.

00:24:51Marc:When was that made?

00:24:52Guest:81.

00:24:52Marc:Yeah, man.

00:24:53Marc:So like that, that had some more stuff.

00:24:56Guest:Yeah.

00:24:57Marc:But ultimately, you like all the layers of fantasy and it speaks to you.

00:25:03Marc:You know what it made me think about is that famous book by, I can't remember which psychologist on fairy tales.

00:25:12Marc:Do you know that book?

00:25:13Guest:I'm sure I've heard of it, but I don't know what you're talking about.

00:25:15Marc:I had the book and, you know, hold on.

00:25:18Marc:What is the thesis?

00:25:19Marc:Well, no, he just analyzes, I think, the Grimm's fairy tales, the symbolism and psychological meanings.

00:25:24Guest:Oh, sure.

00:25:25Guest:That's always fun.

00:25:26Marc:Oh, here it is.

00:25:27Marc:I think this is it.

00:25:28Marc:Yeah, Bruno Bettelheim.

00:25:30Marc:The uses of enchantment, the meaning and importance of fairy tales.

00:25:34Marc:I think Bettelheim, wasn't he a famous psychologist?

00:25:37Marc:Yeah, child psychologist.

00:25:39Marc:Was one of the great child psychologists of the 20th century.

00:25:43Guest:Okay.

00:25:44Guest:What was the premise of the book?

00:25:46Guest:Was it just an analysis of each fairy tale?

00:25:49Marc:I believe that was it.

00:25:50Marc:Yeah.

00:25:51Marc:Analyzing a wide range of traditional stories from the tales of Sinbad, Hansel and Gretel, The Three Little Pigs, Sleeping Beauty, Betelheim shows how the fantastical, sometimes cruel, but always deeply significant narrative strands of the classic fairy tales can aid in our greatest human task that of finding meaning for one's life.

00:26:09Guest:Oh, sure.

00:26:10Guest:Yeah.

00:26:11Marc:Yeah.

00:26:11Guest:I mean, yeah.

00:26:12Marc:So, that being said, and you being so sort of like, of course, that's what they do.

00:26:19Marc:What is the deeper meaning that resonates?

00:26:22Marc:Because for me, she's in the woods, she meets the boy, and his brow is problematic.

00:26:30Yeah.

00:26:33Marc:And he doesn't seem to be completely aware, but then he gets a potion from a devil.

00:26:39Guest:Oh, yeah, that part was.

00:26:41Marc:And he rubs it on his chest, and then the wolf comes out.

00:26:43Marc:Yeah.

00:26:44Marc:Which is like, okay, dream logic, fine.

00:26:45Marc:Yeah.

00:26:46Marc:Without explaining anything.

00:26:47Marc:The grandmother's just sort of like, you know, there's hair on the inside, hair on the outside.

00:26:53Guest:Right, right.

00:26:54Marc:I get it.

00:26:55Marc:Yeah.

00:26:55Marc:You know, that not all men are hair on the outside wolves.

00:27:01Marc:Yeah.

00:27:01Marc:Some of them are.

00:27:02Marc:The ones with hair on the inside are negotiable.

00:27:04Guest:Are negotiable, yeah.

00:27:06Guest:Each story is a lesson, a lesson about trusting men and a lesson about strangers and a lesson about inner motive.

00:27:15Guest:I don't know.

00:27:16Marc:Right.

00:27:16Marc:Yeah.

00:27:17Marc:And sexuality.

00:27:17Guest:And sexuality.

00:27:19Marc:And, you know, and she's pretty young when the traveler shows up.

00:27:24Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:27:25Marc:And he's like a grown-ass man.

00:27:27Guest:It was very young casting, yeah.

00:27:30Marc:But ultimately, you know, the traveler comes, and he, I assume, if we're going to use...

00:27:37Marc:The simple Little Red Riding Hood logic is the wolf.

00:27:40Guest:Yeah, definitely.

00:27:41Marc:The guy who comes in and he... The wolf, yeah.

00:27:44Marc:He doesn't eat grandma.

00:27:45Guest:He does, well... No, he doesn't.

00:27:47Marc:He cuts her head off.

00:27:49Guest:Yes, that's true.

00:27:52Marc:I don't see any eating.

00:27:53Guest:I guess he doesn't eat her.

00:27:54Guest:I guess that's true.

00:27:55Guest:Yeah.

00:27:56Guest:Well, he doesn't have time to eat her.

00:27:58Marc:And then, like, you know, there's all these things where they kill a wolf and then they bring back a paw.

00:28:02Marc:The father does.

00:28:02Marc:And then it's a hand.

00:28:03Marc:Yeah.

00:28:04Marc:And then he cuts.

00:28:05Marc:Like, doesn't Stephen Ray's head end up in the milk?

00:28:08Guest:Yeah, the second husband comes in and kills the wolf, and then the wolf's head flies into the bucket of milk and turns into Stephen Ray's head.

00:28:17Marc:And that's her father.

00:28:19Guest:No, it's her first husband.

00:28:20Marc:Her first husband, right, came back.

00:28:22Guest:Right.

00:28:22Guest:And then the moral of that story is that she cries because the decapitated head looks just like he did on the day she married him, and her second husband slaps her in response to that.

00:28:34Guest:Oh, I see.

00:28:35Marc:So that's a story.

00:28:37Guest:Yeah, your husband can come in and save you for a wolf, but he's still going to fucking beat you afterwards.

00:28:42Guest:Hooray!

00:28:42Marc:Yeah, because you still love the wolf.

00:28:44Guest:Yeah.

00:28:46Marc:Yeah, I mean, not that she deserved it, but it was like, you know, it was a threat.

00:28:49Guest:And then the little girl, remember after that story, the first question the little girl asks to the Angela Lansbury character is when dogs, when real wolves mate, do the dogs beat the bitches afterwards?

00:28:59Marc:Right.

00:29:00Guest:She's asking these questions because she's sensing an inherent misogyny in human culture that doesn't exist in these like wilder, more primitive urges that she's feeling as she's, you know, maturing.

00:29:11Marc:Right.

00:29:12Guest:That's represented by the werewolves in that movie.

00:29:14Guest:Right.

00:29:14Guest:Yeah.

00:29:14Marc:Right.

00:29:14Marc:But ultimately, through all these lessons, through the young kid, the one kid who's not a wolf is kind of a goof.

00:29:21Guest:Yeah.

00:29:22Marc:And she kisses him, but it doesn't.

00:29:24Marc:And then he loses her.

00:29:26Guest:Right.

00:29:27Marc:Right?

00:29:27Marc:Yeah.

00:29:28Marc:And he goes back, and then she shows up, but he's out.

00:29:31Marc:Yeah.

00:29:31Marc:The kid is normal.

00:29:33Guest:The normal town boy.

00:29:34Marc:The normal adolescent town boy kid that she grew up with.

00:29:38Marc:He can't cut it.

00:29:39Guest:Well, she's not interested.

00:29:40Marc:That's right, because she likes the half-wolves.

00:29:44Guest:Well, yeah.

00:29:46Guest:I don't know what we're talking about.

00:29:47Guest:This is just rambling.

00:29:48Guest:I'm sorry.

00:29:49Guest:Did you have a question?

00:29:50Marc:Yeah.

00:29:51Marc:Well, I mean, ultimately, she becomes a wolf.

00:29:54Marc:Yeah.

00:29:56Marc:Yeah.

00:29:57Marc:That's the choice.

00:29:58Marc:So what is the lesson there for young ladies?

00:30:02Guest:I think that the—I don't know if that part's a lesson necessarily, but I think that it's an interesting end of the— What?

00:30:12Guest:I'm trying to think about what I want to say about that.

00:30:15Guest:She becomes a wolf at the end.

00:30:16Marc:But you said, like, right before we even talked about it.

00:30:19Guest:Yeah.

00:30:20Marc:Yeah, I had to, like, reconfigure my entire approach to the movie because—

00:30:25Marc:Uh, you know, like we're on the phone or maybe we're just talking and you're sort of like, yeah, I had to watch it again, you know, because it's, you know, it's a feminist movie.

00:30:35Marc:And I'm like, well, what?

00:30:37Marc:And then I had to like, like, had to like take it seriously.

00:30:39Guest:Oh, okay.

00:30:41Guest:Well, do you think it's a feminist movie?

00:30:43Marc:Well, now that you mention it and the way you're talking about it, yeah.

00:30:46Guest:Yeah.

00:30:47Marc:And the horror is really just men in general.

00:30:50Guest:Yes.

00:30:51Guest:I mean, the horror is men and growing up.

00:30:53Guest:The horror is the allure of everything that comes with growing up into a woman and the sexuality of men and being curious about that.

00:31:06Guest:Right.

00:31:06Guest:But like all of the danger inherent in being curious in that sexuality, like you can think a man is hot, but you might turn into a wolf and eat you.

00:31:15Guest:You can marry a man, but he might beat you.

00:31:18Guest:You can, you know, play it safe with a little boy from town, but then you're not going to ever find your power and turn into a wolf yourself.

00:31:27Guest:It's like – there's something fucking complicated and difficult and shameful about adolescence for girls in particular because innocence is so desired in women.

00:31:42Guest:And to rend yourself away from innocence in order to grow up into something that has more opportunities to explore is –

00:31:52Guest:traumatizing, shocking, horrifying thing.

00:31:54Marc:And also what you're saying, uh, uh, push back against.

00:31:58Guest:Yeah.

00:31:59Marc:Yeah.

00:31:59Guest:Yeah.

00:32:00Guest:Cause you don't know if you like, it's, it's tough.

00:32:02Guest:Do you want to grow up into a like sexual, like intellectual, like powerful being, or do you want to stay a child and be safe and not have to deal with any of those monsters?

00:32:16Marc:Right.

00:32:17Marc:But it's unclear whether she has a wolf will blossom into an intellectual, uh,

00:32:22Marc:But I mean, the assumption is because the wolves are like it ends kind of upbeat with the wolves.

00:32:27Guest:Yeah.

00:32:28Marc:But she never wakes up.

00:32:29Marc:You never go back to the reality.

00:32:31Guest:Well, you do.

00:32:31Guest:The very end of the movie is is a pretty kind of I think kind of right off of a horror movie ending.

00:32:39Guest:The wolves run out of the dream.

00:32:41Guest:into the waking world as it were and there's a wolf at the window steps of her house yes and she wakes up and a wolf bursts through the window of her room and then they say that little rhyme at the end um while the credits are rolling but what are we what are we supposed to get from that that i don't know that i've never really been hugely into the final shot of the movie like i've never understood what they were trying to say with that it

00:33:05Guest:And I'm not saying it's like the most intelligent.

00:33:07Guest:I'm probably reading.

00:33:08Guest:I'm probably overthinking a lot of it.

00:33:10Marc:No, you're not.

00:33:11Marc:I mean, I think I think that there is intention throughout the movie.

00:33:15Marc:Yeah.

00:33:16Marc:And, you know, whether you want to, you know, say it's dream logic or what.

00:33:21Marc:I mean, somebody looked at that script and made a decision about those stories.

00:33:23Marc:And when you break it into these separate vignettes about about.

00:33:29Marc:Becoming a woman or lessons about men.

00:33:34Marc:You know, I can see that breakdown.

00:33:36Marc:I could see that as the sort of like the arc of the movie.

00:33:39Guest:Yeah.

00:33:40Marc:And that he probably said that and how you feel those because even some of the language is a little ridiculous.

00:33:46Guest:Oh, the language is absolutely ridiculous, but that's something else I appreciate about it, that they had the balls to go there.

00:33:51Guest:Like, they use fairy tale wording, like, in the actual dialogue.

00:33:55Guest:Like, they'll repeat things like, she waited, and she waited, and she waited again.

00:34:00Marc:Yeah.

00:34:01Guest:She ran, she ran, she ran again.

00:34:02Guest:Because you always say things like that in threes in Grimm's Brothers tales.

00:34:06Guest:Everything comes in fucking threes.

00:34:08Guest:Right.

00:34:08Guest:Like, that's the magic fairy tale number, and they don't have...

00:34:12Guest:It's authentic in every way that they're trying to make it be.

00:34:16Guest:That's why I fucking love the dumb movie.

00:34:17Guest:It's so cornball, but it does what it wants to do, goddammit.

00:34:22Marc:Right, but because of that, because of fairytale logic and because of dream logic, it leaves itself available and actually wanting to be understood on as deep a level as you want to do it.

00:34:35Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:34:36Guest:That's the great thing about fairy tales.

00:34:38Guest:Right.

00:34:39Marc:They sort of go in and out of the sort of subconscious world and the real world.

00:34:46Guest:Yeah, there's really deep waters there, but you can just look at it at the surface level of a five-year-old, you know?

00:34:51Marc:Sure.

00:34:51Marc:That's what fairy tales are for.

00:34:53Guest:Yeah.

00:34:54Marc:Now I've got to order the Bruno Bettelheim book again.

00:34:58Oh, good.

00:34:58Marc:Well, this went well.

00:34:59Guest:Did it?

00:35:00Marc:Yeah.

00:35:00Guest:I hope it went well.

00:35:01Marc:No, it was very – I don't think we've had this long conversation in two years.

00:35:07Guest:Oh, my God.

00:35:08Guest:We have two.

00:35:09Marc:It's just been – About different things?

00:35:11Guest:About different things.

00:35:13Guest:We have long conversations.

00:35:15Marc:All right.

00:35:15Marc:Well, this has been the premiere episode of Mark and Kit talking about horror movies.

00:35:21Guest:Are we going to watch another horror movie?

00:35:23Marc:I'm very impressed with your skills on the mic.

00:35:27Marc:So there might be – we could talk about other things even.

00:35:31Marc:Ooh.

00:35:31Marc:Let's not go crazy.

00:35:32Marc:Okay.

00:35:33Marc:Not to help people everything.

00:35:34Marc:We've kept you out of the mix for a while.

00:35:39Marc:Yeah.

00:35:39Marc:Well.

00:35:40Marc:Now you're in.

00:35:41Guest:Now I'm in.

00:35:42Guest:It's okay.

00:35:42Guest:My name is really hard to Google because it's two words in the English language.

00:35:46Marc:Oh, what does that mean?

00:35:47Marc:Kit and pleasant?

00:35:49Marc:Pleasant, yeah.

00:35:50Guest:You just get a bunch of hits about the American Girl doll that shares my name because it's made by the Pleasant Valley Company or something like that.

00:35:56Marc:Oh.

00:35:56Guest:Yeah.

00:35:57Guest:It's great, actually.

00:35:58Guest:It's really nice.

00:35:59Marc:So you can hide behind the wall.

00:36:01Guest:The doll wall.

00:36:03Guest:I enjoy the privacy of the doll wall, yes.

00:36:08All right.

00:36:25Marc:Boomer lives!