BONUS Marc on Movies (with Kit!) - Shin Godzilla

00:02:56Marc:Well, that was very exciting for all of us, Jurassic Park, when it first came out because you're like, these are what dinosaurs look like.

00:03:02Marc:I know.

00:03:03Marc:Scale and everything.

00:03:04Marc:And he had us convinced that we were seeing dinosaurs as they were.

00:03:07Guest:As they were.

00:03:08Guest:Yeah, and now we find out they're birds.

00:03:10Guest:All of them?

00:03:12Guest:No, I don't think all of them.

00:03:13Marc:Most of them?

00:03:14Guest:I think it's still really, really argued.

00:03:16Marc:Oh, really?

00:03:17Guest:Yeah, I think a lot of them had feathers and looked like big old birds.

00:03:21Marc:But they're still huge?

00:03:22Marc:Yeah.

00:03:24Marc:All right, so the first Godzilla, the black and white one.

00:03:27Marc:Yeah.

00:03:27Marc:Ridiculous, right?

00:03:29Yeah.

00:03:30Guest:Yeah.

00:03:31Guest:I had a crisis of faith with the first Godzilla because it's not ridiculous in premise.

00:03:36Guest:It's great in premise.

00:03:37Guest:Yeah.

00:03:38Guest:But then we watched On the Waterfront last week, which was made the same year as the first Godzilla.

00:03:44Guest:And I was kind of like, oh.

00:03:48Marc:Yeah, where would you have been?

00:03:50Marc:What was that, 1958 or something?

00:03:52Guest:54.

00:03:53Marc:What would you have been doing in 1954?

00:03:55Nah!

00:03:58Marc:I don't want to see that waterfront movie.

00:04:00Marc:It looks sad.

00:04:02Guest:Let's go see Godzilla.

00:04:04Guest:Well, it wasn't available in America until 56, I don't think.

00:04:07Marc:So you've been waiting for it.

00:04:09Guest:Yeah.

00:04:09Guest:You've been waiting two years to feel better from on the waterfront.

00:04:13Marc:Exactly.

00:04:13Marc:Yeah.

00:04:13Marc:Thank God the monster's here.

00:04:15Marc:But my image of the early Godzilla is just like ridiculous.

00:04:20Marc:Like the flame looked like a blowtorch coming out of his mouth.

00:04:24Marc:Yeah, it did.

00:04:25Marc:The movement was kind of what?

00:04:29Marc:To clunky.

00:04:30Guest:Clunky.

00:04:30Guest:I mean, Godzilla kind of was the beginning of suitmation, in quotation marks.

00:04:37Guest:What is that?

00:04:38Guest:It's guys walking around in suits and miniature sets that look like miniature cities stomping around.

00:04:44Marc:Well, I think...

00:04:45Marc:Miniature sets have been around.

00:04:46Marc:Yeah.

00:04:47Guest:Yeah.

00:04:47Guest:But that was sort of like the the amount that they did it in Godzilla and the extent to which it became a hit in Japan kind of made people realize that we can fuck around with this and not spend that much money.

00:04:59Guest:And yeah.

00:05:00Marc:OK.

00:05:00Marc:So I guess it's it was pioneering.

00:05:02Marc:Yeah.

00:05:03Marc:So despite how it looks now or even 10 years ago, I'm going to even say 40 years ago.

00:05:09Marc:It was pretty amazing when it happened the first time.

00:05:13Guest:In 54?

00:05:13Guest:Yeah.

00:05:13Guest:I mean, look, it wasn't about being – it was a coping mechanism for Japan.

00:05:20Guest:Godzilla is a metaphor for what happened to Japan in World War II with all of the nuclear damage that they suffered.

00:05:27Marc:You mean the two bombs we dropped on them?

00:05:29Guest:Yeah.

00:05:29Guest:I mean, that's two or three to two.

00:05:31Marc:Yeah.

00:05:32Marc:Yeah.

00:05:32Guest:Two.

00:05:33Marc:Sorry.

00:05:36Marc:I made another one up.

00:05:37Guest:I just made it much worse.

00:05:39Guest:It's the one that they will get into it.

00:05:41Guest:It's the one that they threaten in the in the movie we watched.

00:05:44Marc:Oh, that's right.

00:05:45Marc:Yeah.

00:05:45Marc:They were going to like, let's just do it.

00:05:47Marc:OK.

00:05:48Marc:Well, that's interesting that that justification for that.

00:05:52Marc:in the new movie in the last in the one we watch yeah the idea that's like hey we've been through it before how many we're gonna lose to get rid of this like they were going to nuclear bomb themselves no they weren't they weren't well i mean if you want to get into it forget about that you did you did yeah you forgot a little the americans were yeah all right so should we start the beginning or what okay what so that's the first one and then what's the second one

00:06:16Guest:So the first Godzilla was like in 54.

00:06:20Guest:I think it became they like cut it down to a shorter length and they put an English dub on it and it became Godzilla King of the Monsters in 56 in America.

00:06:31Guest:OK.

00:06:32Guest:And then I think they did like Godzilla Raids again or something in 56 or 58.

00:06:38Marc:And then wasn't there Godzilla versus Kong?

00:06:40Guest:There were a lot of, yeah, Godzilla vs. Kong was the third one that they ever did.

00:06:44Marc:Did you enjoy that?

00:06:45Guest:Yeah.

00:06:46Marc:Okay.

00:06:46Guest:Yeah, that's a fun one.

00:06:47Guest:That was the first time that King Kong was done by Toho Studios, which is the guys who invented Godzilla.

00:06:52Guest:Okay.

00:06:53Guest:Godzilla, yeah, Godzilla started as a movie in 54 that was very much like kind of a metaphor and kind of a coping mechanism for what had happened to Japan because Godzilla was.

00:07:02Marc:Still in the wreckage kind of.

00:07:04Marc:Right.

00:07:04Guest:Godzilla was the, you know, the explanation for Godzilla's appearance in that movie is that nuclear testing in that bay mutated an ancient species.

00:07:19Guest:And, you know, then all of the damage that he does to the people has like radioactive damage, you know.

00:07:26Marc:So this was a way – it wasn't like – it wasn't any sort of revenge fantasy for the nuclear war, but it was some way of distracting from it in a fantastical way.

00:07:39Guest:Yeah, it wasn't a revenge fantasy.

00:07:41Guest:It was just kind of like thoughts about it.

00:07:43Guest:Godzilla was both the horror of nuclear war and a victim of nuclear war because he only came out and started tromping around after the nuclear testing.

00:07:55Guest:Right.

00:07:55Guest:And I think over the course of his history, he became kind of sillier and more of a friendly character because obviously it's hard to stop little kids from wanting to watch movies about dinosaurs.

00:08:09Marc:Yeah.

00:08:11Marc:So they actually were concerned they were scaring the children.

00:08:14Guest:Well, no, I think that, like, they just became very popular with children and then started tending to direct the films that way.

00:08:23Guest:You know, the son of Godzilla came out and there's a little baby Godzilla walking around and they got a lot sillier for a while.

00:08:31Marc:Kids like baby Godzilla.

00:08:32Guest:Yeah.

00:08:34Marc:So, okay, so how many down the line—

00:08:37Guest:are we to the one we watched so we watched shin godzilla shin godzilla which people who are listening to this who are godzilla people are like of course yeah shin godzilla so we yeah we watched shin godzilla which came out in 2016 and was the first toho studio godzilla in like quite a while um and before that like american studios had been doing godzilla yeah i remember one yeah which one do you remember

00:09:01Marc:Well, I remember seeing the posters for maybe the coming attractions for the American one.

00:09:04Marc:How was that?

00:09:05Marc:Was that post-Jurassic Park?

00:09:07Marc:I remember there was a modern one that wasn't Shin Godzilla.

00:09:10Guest:There were a few modern ones.

00:09:12Guest:There was one in the, I don't know if it was, I think it was the 90s with Matthew Broderick.

00:09:17Marc:Okay.

00:09:17Guest:It was that French guy, Jean.

00:09:20Marc:Jean.

00:09:20Guest:Jean Natalie Portman's friend.

00:09:23Guest:Oh, yeah, that guy.

00:09:24Marc:Yeah.

00:09:24Marc:Yeah, from The Assassin?

00:09:25Marc:Yeah.

00:09:26Marc:Yeah, I forget that guy's name.

00:09:27Marc:Yeah.

00:09:27Marc:Yeah, him.

00:09:28Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:09:29Marc:How'd that Godzilla look?

00:09:30Yeah.

00:09:30Marc:Really?

00:09:31Guest:Why?

00:09:32Guest:It was just silly.

00:09:33Guest:It was just silly.

00:09:34Guest:I guess the design of the Godzilla was kind of fun.

00:09:40Guest:I can't remember.

00:09:40Marc:What was your problem with that?

00:09:42Guest:I had no problems with it.

00:09:43Guest:I was a child and it was delightful.

00:09:45Guest:But later when I grew up, it was kind of just a silly Godzilla movie.

00:09:49Guest:I don't think that Americans are equipped to understand that Godzilla is...

00:09:55Guest:Godzilla means a lot.

00:09:57Guest:Every American Godzilla movie, he's just a silly dinosaur.

00:10:01Guest:Or there's an overwrought plot in the new Legendary Pictures movies.

00:10:07Guest:There was a Godzilla in 2014.

00:10:09Guest:And then a Godzilla in 2019 that I saw at a drive-in movie theater.

00:10:14Marc:And no good?

00:10:15Guest:It was fun to see it at a drive-in movie theater, but no, it was crap.

00:10:18Guest:Like, there's this, like, there's this, like, plot in the American movies that they're still making.

00:10:23Guest:Yeah.

00:10:24Guest:That Godzilla is an ancient alpha predator from an ancient race of alpha predators called titans.

00:10:33Guest:And there were dinosaur titans and there were ape titans and they all lived at the center of the earth and were worshipped by you.

00:10:42Guest:It's stupid.

00:10:43Guest:Yeah.

00:10:43Marc:It's a lot of backstory.

00:10:44Guest:Why do you need all that shit?

00:10:46Marc:Sounds like Scientology.

00:10:49Guest:I know.

00:10:49Guest:Like, why do you need all that?

00:10:51Marc:Are you sure that's not a Scientology movie?

00:10:52Guest:No, I know.

00:10:53Guest:Godzilla is good enough on his own.

00:10:55Guest:He doesn't need a complicated— Doesn't need the backstory.

00:10:56Guest:He doesn't need the backstory.

00:10:57Marc:Just stick with the original idea.

00:10:59Guest:Just stick with the original idea.

00:11:00Marc:Got fucked up by radiation, woke up a monster.

00:11:02Guest:This is one of my major problems in life is that there's never been a movie where they've just had the balls to be supported by the fact that there's a dinosaur in it.

00:11:11Guest:There always has to be some complicated big plot with a billion characters and running around and lots of guns.

00:11:18Guest:And I just – I would love to watch like two hours about people cloning dinosaurs and like the drama of the ethics involved combined with their personal lives.

00:11:27Guest:And I'd love to just see fucking dinosaurs.

00:11:29Guest:Isn't that Jurassic Park?

00:11:31Guest:It's kind of –

00:11:32Guest:Yeah, kind of.

00:11:33Marc:Yeah.

00:11:35Marc:Did you watch all the Jurassic Park movies?

00:11:37Guest:I've watched basically all the Jurassic Park movies.

00:11:40Guest:I don't think I saw the last Jurassic Park movie that came out.

00:11:42Marc:Is that bothering you in any way?

00:11:44Guest:No.

00:11:46Marc:What happened to the interest in Jurassic Park?

00:11:48Marc:It's still dinosaurs, right?

00:11:49Guest:Yeah, it's still dinosaurs.

00:11:50Marc:I don't know.

00:11:52Guest:It just got very Marvel-y.

00:11:56Guest:I don't know.

00:11:58Guest:Not everything has to be so complicated.

00:12:00Marc:Right.

00:12:01Marc:You were excited about the Shin Godzilla.

00:12:05Guest:Yeah.

00:12:06Marc:Shin Godzilla.

00:12:07Marc:Yeah.

00:12:08Marc:Why is it called that?

00:12:08Guest:Shin is a Japanese word that I think means new or real.

00:12:13Guest:Okay.

00:12:14Guest:So this is sort of a new slash realistic reimagining of Godzilla.

00:12:23Guest:So it's sort of a soft reboot, I guess, for Toho Studios.

00:12:27Marc:When you were pitching it to me, you were like, this is good because it's really about bureaucracy.

00:12:31Marc:Yes.

00:12:33Marc:And I was like, that doesn't sound great.

00:12:36Yeah.

00:12:36Marc:But I like the conceit.

00:12:38Marc:I like that this was an updating of the metaphor that you were talking about before, that there was something – putting something into perspective that was horrible.

00:12:47Marc:Yeah.

00:12:47Marc:And now addressing – Government response.

00:12:51Marc:Yeah, government response.

00:12:52Marc:Yeah.

00:12:53Marc:So I was excited because it felt like it had a couple levels working.

00:12:58Yeah.

00:12:58Marc:But I got to be honest with you, we watched a movie and right out of the gate, as soon as the monster comes out of the water, Mike, those eyes are not, they're not doing it for me.

00:13:07Marc:The eyes on the monster, they're fish eyes, but they looked a little, they weren't looking around.

00:13:13Marc:They looked like they were just stuck on the head and they had choice.

00:13:16Marc:Well, I mean, it just didn't look.

00:13:18Marc:I guess I'm looking for more realism.

00:13:20Guest:Didn't that freak you out, though, that it was so alien and unnatural looking?

00:13:25Marc:Well, it's going to be that way anyways.

00:13:27Marc:Is it?

00:13:28Marc:A giant monster that comes out of the ocean.

00:13:30Guest:But you want its eyes to look around like natural like it does.

00:13:33Guest:It's not scary that it's.

00:13:35Marc:No, I mean, I wanted it to have reptile eyes.

00:13:37Marc:I see.

00:13:38Marc:But the eyes made it look lifeless in some weird way.

00:13:41Guest:It's evolving, though.

00:13:42Guest:It gets reptilized later.

00:13:44Marc:It does.

00:13:45Guest:It starts out as a fishy.

00:13:47Guest:Oh, is that the idea?

00:13:48Guest:Yeah.

00:13:49Marc:Oh, okay.

00:13:49Marc:So it was on purpose that it had fish eyes?

00:13:51Marc:Yeah.

00:13:52Marc:Like fish eyes, I think about like that lamp you have.

00:13:54Marc:Like they just stuck them on there.

00:13:55God, I love that.

00:13:56Marc:Yeah.

00:13:57Marc:Did you find the marbles for it?

00:13:58Guest:No, not yet.

00:13:59Guest:I found some eyes for it, but I broke off.

00:14:02Guest:Huh?

00:14:02Marc:What happened?

00:14:03Marc:Did you put them on?

00:14:03Guest:No, I broke off some of the, a little bit of the plaster chipping off the old eye.

00:14:08Marc:Oh, and what?

00:14:10Marc:Does it need to be repaired?

00:14:11Guest:Yeah, but I've got everything I need.

00:14:13Marc:Like what, you have plaster?

00:14:14Guest:Yeah, no, I've got some epoxy that I'm just going to smear on and then I'm going to paint it to match that.

00:14:18Marc:Now this is just a fish that has like weird little light up marbles on, the lights inside.

00:14:23Guest:It's the most prized possession that I own.

00:14:25Marc:I know.

00:14:25Marc:What is the story on the fish?

00:14:26Guest:When I was like 21, my roommate Mike Murphy and I were just walking around our neighborhood and we went into a church yard sale and we found this fish lamp that's like maybe two feet long.

00:14:38Guest:Yeah.

00:14:39Guest:And covered in painted silver with green taxidermy eyes and covered in white and blue marbles that I guess are supposed to represent scales.

00:14:47Marc:Yeah, they light up when you turn the light on.

00:14:49Guest:And it's signed Lolitha K. December 1977 on the back.

00:14:53Marc:Yeah.

00:14:53Marc:Uh-huh.

00:14:54Marc:So Lolita made it.

00:14:56Marc:Lolita made it.

00:14:56Marc:This is a piece of craft work.

00:14:58Guest:This is a piece of craft work.

00:15:00Guest:And it's gone back and forth between me and Mike.

00:15:02Marc:For years.

00:15:03Guest:Yeah.

00:15:04Marc:Yeah.

00:15:04Marc:And now you've got it again and you're going to upgrade it.

00:15:06Marc:You're going to do the repairs necessary.

00:15:08Marc:Maybe you should call Lolita.

00:15:09Guest:I don't know where Lolita is.

00:15:11Marc:How many can there be?

00:15:12Guest:I don't know.

00:15:13Guest:She made this in 77.

00:15:15Guest:You think she's still around?

00:15:16Marc:It was in Chicago?

00:15:17Guest:Suburban Chicago.

00:15:18Marc:Yeah.

00:15:19Marc:Let's find Lolita.

00:15:20Marc:Ask her if she would be interested in repairing.

00:15:25Guest:Repairing the fish lamp.

00:15:26Marc:That would be so funny to find this old lady.

00:15:28Guest:I, I, one of my very first jobs, not, I guess not one of my first jobs, one of my first serious jobs, like full-time jobs was I was a manager at some store at a mall and we had this great janitor named Don who would always greet you by going, Hey babe.

00:15:43Guest:Don.

00:15:44Guest:Hey babe, Don.

00:15:45Guest:Hey babe.

00:15:47Guest:Yeah.

00:15:47Guest:He stole the fish lamp one night.

00:15:50Guest:He stole it?

00:15:51Guest:I didn't know where it went.

00:15:52Guest:He stole it.

00:15:53Guest:And it was gone for two days.

00:15:55Guest:And when it came back, it had a new longer cord with an on-off switch, which it didn't have before.

00:16:02Guest:So he was so sweet.

00:16:03Marc:Don added to the story.

00:16:04Guest:Yeah.

00:16:05Marc:The unfolding story of the fish lamp.

00:16:07Wow.

00:16:07Guest:Why are we talking about this?

00:16:08Marc:And you didn't even, no one okayed it with Lolita.

00:16:11Guest:No, but it was.

00:16:12Marc:I wonder if Lolita made more than these.

00:16:13Marc:I hope so.

00:16:14Marc:More than one.

00:16:15Guest:God, I hope so.

00:16:15Guest:Was it a business?

00:16:16Guest:No, it looked like.

00:16:17Marc:This sounds like a whole podcast series.

00:16:19Guest:I would assume that it was either.

00:16:22Marc:Kid and the fish lamp.

00:16:23Marc:That's, like, at least four episodes.

00:16:25Guest:I love that fucking lamp.

00:16:26Marc:I know.

00:16:26Guest:But I would assume that it was either a one-off or that it was, like, I don't know.

00:16:30Guest:Did they have in the 70s, did they have those places that you go to and, like, you and a party of middle-aged ladies, like, all make a clay thing together and then someone has a kiln that they fire them?

00:16:42Marc:Oh, right.

00:16:42Marc:The place where you make the pottery?

00:16:44Guest:Yeah.

00:16:45Guest:But it's still got electric.

00:16:47Marc:Yeah.

00:16:47Marc:Oh, so you think it was handmade ceramics?

00:16:50Guest:Yeah.

00:16:51Marc:Oh.

00:16:51Guest:It's definitely a ceramic, and I don't know if it's a handmade ceramic or if it was, like, fired in a mold, but... So you picture maybe a Lolita and a few of her friends, and they're like, what are you making, Lolita?

00:17:02Marc:She's like, I'm making a fish lamp.

00:17:04Yeah.

00:17:04Marc:And they laughed at her.

00:17:05Marc:They all laughed at Lolita, but no one knows the work of the other ones.

00:17:09Marc:Yet the fish lamp survives.

00:17:10Guest:We've been keeping it for now, what am I?

00:17:13Guest:So 13 years we've been preserving it since we found it at that churchyard sale.

00:17:19Marc:What do we know?

00:17:20Marc:What's happened to Don?

00:17:21Guest:Don?

00:17:22Guest:Yeah.

00:17:23Guest:I actually, when I was in Chicago earlier this month, I ran into someone who worked at that store and I asked her if Don was still alive.

00:17:30Guest:And she says, as far as he knows, he is still alive.

00:17:32Marc:Oh, there you go.

00:17:33Guest:The last time we heard about Don, he was in a jail in another state because.

00:17:37Marc:I'm telling you, man, this is all, this is the center of a wheel of stories, the fish lamp.

00:17:44Marc:Yeah.

00:17:44Guest:Don is the best.

00:17:46Marc:Yeah.

00:17:46Guest:Don was a wonderful man.

00:17:47Guest:I remember when I got my first tattoo because Don was fucking covered in tattoos.

00:17:52Guest:And I was like, I showed him.

00:17:53Guest:I was so proud.

00:17:53Guest:I was like, look, Don, I got my first tattoo.

00:17:55Guest:And he just slapped it.

00:17:57Marc:Oh, my God.

00:17:58Marc:When it was all freshly bloody.

00:18:01Guest:No, I mean, it was like the next day when I was at work.

00:18:04Marc:But it was very funny.

00:18:06Marc:That's like a secret tattoo initiation.

00:18:08Guest:I guess so.

00:18:10Marc:All right.

00:18:10Marc:So Shin Godzilla.

00:18:12Marc:Yes.

00:18:13Marc:Okay, so we've established that I was a little overcritical of the eyes and I didn't understand.

00:18:18Guest:That's my favorite.

00:18:20Guest:That's my favorite one with the wiggly neck and the eyes and the vomiting blood out of the gills.

00:18:27Marc:Yeah, but I mean, I think I brought it up to you then.

00:18:29Marc:But I guess sort of like I'm learning something about myself and how I take in movies.

00:18:34Marc:I just watch three movies that I consider my favorite movies and I didn't know what one of them was about.

00:18:40Marc:Like none of them.

00:18:42Marc:And I'd watch them at different times.

00:18:44Marc:And I remember them.

00:18:45Marc:But, like, I don't know what the story was.

00:18:48Marc:Or I didn't remember the story.

00:18:49Marc:Or I missed it entirely.

00:18:51Marc:So I don't necessarily focus in on these details.

00:18:54Marc:Because I guess I'm just sort of like, oh, look, it's a fish.

00:18:57Marc:So I didn't realize.

00:18:58Marc:I do realize now that it was evolving.

00:19:01Marc:And that's part of it.

00:19:02Guest:Yeah.

00:19:02Marc:Because it becomes more menacing.

00:19:04Marc:It becomes more indestructible.

00:19:05Guest:Yeah.

00:19:06Marc:As it evolves and it evolves quickly.

00:19:08Marc:Yeah.

00:19:08Marc:And the way this Godzilla, the backstory on this one, has something to do with that scientist, right?

00:19:14Guest:Yeah.

00:19:15Marc:See, I already don't remember the fucking story.

00:19:17Guest:It's also anti-nuclear.

00:19:18Guest:It's also anti-nuclear.

00:19:20Guest:Yeah.

00:19:20Guest:This one was the result of nuclear waste dumping.

00:19:25Guest:Instead of nuclear testing.

00:19:28Guest:I think in both movies it's implied in both cases that it's done by America.

00:19:33Guest:But I don't know if that's like official.

00:19:38Guest:But I think in both movies it's applied that it's American nuclear activity off a Japanese bay.

00:19:43Marc:Okay, so what was that scientist, the one where they found the cryptic paper, the cryptic map of how to stop the dinosaur?

00:19:52Marc:What was his place in it?

00:19:53Marc:He was like the only one who knew how to stop it?

00:19:56Guest:Yeah, he was like an anti-nuclear biologist who disappeared from...

00:20:02Guest:But he knew about it.

00:20:04Guest:He knew about it.

00:20:04Guest:Right.

00:20:05Guest:He named it.

00:20:06Guest:He gave it the name Gojira.

00:20:07Guest:Yeah.

00:20:08Guest:Which then I think I think American media translates that to Godzilla.

00:20:12Guest:And then the Godzilla catches back on.

00:20:14Guest:And then it's mostly called Godzilla, I think, in the movie.

00:20:17Marc:All right.

00:20:17Marc:So that so that guy, you don't see him.

00:20:19Marc:But, you know, they found his paperwork.

00:20:21Marc:Yeah.

00:20:21Marc:So they're trying to like, OK, so let's get on with it.

00:20:24Marc:So I'm trying to remember what brings the monster up.

00:20:26Marc:It just we just all of a sudden the movie opens and there's a disruption in the bay.

00:20:30Guest:Yeah, there's a disruption in the bay.

00:20:34Guest:It starts, like, as it's moving inland, it starts causing destruction.

00:20:39Guest:It starts, like, caving in an underwater tunnel.

00:20:43Marc:Yeah, but right out of the gate, though, the bureaucrats, the government, is sort of like, what's going on?

00:20:48Marc:What is it?

00:20:48Marc:As if they don't even have the wherewithal or the technology to realize there's a giant fish lizard in the bay.

00:20:56Guest:Yeah.

00:20:56Guest:I know.

00:20:57Guest:It's fun, right?

00:20:58Guest:Because, I mean, maybe you're not used to, like, dealing with upper management types because you've been self-employed for so many years.

00:21:06Guest:But it is like that, man.

00:21:08Guest:Yeah.

00:21:08Guest:Like, it is like that with people who are like, we need to get a meeting of only the important council members right now, and we need to discuss what could be happening in the Bay.

00:21:18Guest:And then someone's in the meeting like, TV says there might be video footage of a lizard.

00:21:23Guest:And someone's like, okay, whatever, internet shit.

00:21:24Guest:Yeah, but let's talk about this.

00:21:26Marc:Yeah.

00:21:27Marc:We've got a meeting to do.

00:21:28Marc:Right.

00:21:29Marc:And that's sort of how it unfolds.

00:21:30Guest:Yeah.

00:21:31Marc:And it takes a while for them to realize that there's the giant lizard.

00:21:34Guest:They go from big meeting to like, we need to we need to break this up.

00:21:38Guest:I'm so sorry.

00:21:38Guest:We need to we need to immediately have a meeting of the presidents.

00:21:41Guest:And like, you know, they go from big meeting to little meeting to.

00:21:44Marc:Yeah.

00:21:45Guest:To forming a new council and then putting them in a meeting.

00:21:49Marc:The military.

00:21:50Marc:The military.

00:21:51Marc:The military.

00:21:51Guest:The Japanese special defense forces.

00:21:53Guest:Yeah.

00:21:53Marc:So that is kind of interesting to me that, you know, after all said and done, this is not a movie about you're not watching a lot of Godzilla.

00:22:02Marc:You're watching a lot of reaction.

00:22:04Marc:Yeah.

00:22:04Marc:And a lot of strange, you know, shifting of responsibility.

00:22:08Marc:People who don't want to take the blame.

00:22:09Marc:You have careerist politicians who want to use it as a platform, like all the stuff that happens around people.

00:22:16Marc:It's almost like the shock doctrine.

00:22:19Marc:It's almost like the idea of how a disaster is used to further promote capitalism and to promote politics.

00:22:29Guest:Yeah.

00:22:30Guest:And it's also kind of, I think, in response to real-life events like the first Godzilla was because that one was kind of like –

00:22:39Guest:trying to cope in some way or respond in some way to just like Japanese feeling after Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

00:22:49Guest:And this one, I know that inspiration was drawn from the Fukushima nuclear disaster that happened and also the Tohoku earthquake and tsunami.

00:22:59Marc:Right.

00:23:00Marc:Which was.

00:23:00Marc:So with those bureaucratic disasters or we don't know.

00:23:03Guest:Those were natural disasters that were hindered by bureaucratic or that were, you know, widely criticized within the country for the bureaucratic response.

00:23:12Marc:So this is like this is an activist movie.

00:23:16Guest:Kind of.

00:23:16Guest:Yeah.

00:23:17Marc:Huh.

00:23:17Marc:Yeah.

00:23:18Marc:And then after, like, you know, you can see politics happening.

00:23:21Marc:You can see alliances being created.

00:23:24Marc:You can see guys with good hearts, guys with not so good hearts.

00:23:27Marc:Yeah.

00:23:28Marc:Guys who are only thinking about their future.

00:23:30Marc:That woman who.

00:23:31Marc:Had the line in on the Americans because of her connection.

00:23:35Marc:Right.

00:23:35Marc:Who now had to—because the Americans were like, well, we can't have this running around.

00:23:38Marc:We're going to nuke the fucker.

00:23:40Guest:I know.

00:23:41Guest:That's my favorite fucking thing about this movie.

00:23:44Marc:Yeah.

00:23:44Guest:And that's what a lot of Godzilla movies get wrong is because, like, there are—

00:23:50Guest:You don't – like eventually at the end of any Godzilla movie, you got to kill Godzilla.

00:23:57Guest:But why would you want to do that?

00:23:59Guest:You know, like there were even – I remember we were watching it and there were moments where Godzilla was getting missiled and torpedoed and stuff.

00:24:05Guest:And you were like, oh, poor Godzilla.

00:24:07Marc:I feel that way with any animal or large lizard.

00:24:09Guest:I do too.

00:24:10Guest:I do too.

00:24:11Guest:I don't even like watching the Kong versus Godzilla movies because I don't want to root for – I just want them to –

00:24:16Marc:Yeah, leave him be.

00:24:17Marc:Yeah.

00:24:17Marc:Let him go home.

00:24:18Guest:Let him fuck.

00:24:20Guest:I don't care.

00:24:21Guest:But that's what this one does so right is because in like the third act, they get word from the United Nations of like, hey, we've all agreed that we're going to let America nuke you a third time if you can't get Godzilla under control.

00:24:38Guest:Right.

00:24:39Guest:And then it becomes not like a we need to kill Godzilla, but many people don't want to kill Godzilla because he's a new species and it's just a we need to fucking kill

00:24:45Guest:Godzilla because we can't let America do that.

00:24:49Guest:It's so good.

00:24:50Marc:We've been through this before.

00:24:51Marc:Yeah.

00:24:51Marc:And then the tension adds up and then there's a scientific solution.

00:24:55Guest:Yeah.

00:24:55Marc:If they can just get the liquid in there to freeze his blood or whatever.

00:24:59Guest:Yeah.

00:24:59Guest:It doesn't have a big climactic fight scene at the end like a lot of Godzilla movies.

00:25:05Marc:Yeah, you don't see the toppling of the lizard.

00:25:09Marc:He does fall down.

00:25:09Guest:He does fall down.

00:25:10Guest:The biggest fight scene is like in the middle when he's at his most powerful form and he does that awesome atomic purple laser out of his mouth and his tail.

00:25:21Marc:The laser eyes and the eyes, yeah.

00:25:22Guest:And he starts cutting the skyscrapers in half.

00:25:25Marc:Yes.

00:25:27Marc:There was always these surprise nuclear-based armaments within the lizard.

00:25:33Yeah.

00:25:33Marc:I thought, I literally thought at some point that the scientist, the mythic scientist who understood the animal.

00:25:40Guest:Was going to come back?

00:25:41Marc:No, I thought he was going to come out of the head.

00:25:43Marc:Oh.

00:25:44Marc:Like, before one of the.

00:25:46Guest:I'm controlling him.

00:25:47Marc:Exactly.

00:25:49Marc:That's what I thought.

00:25:50Guest:That's funny.

00:25:51Marc:Because I knew something was about to happen and you already knew, but I'm like, he's going to come out of the head.

00:25:56Marc:The guy is.

00:25:57Marc:And you're like, what are you talking about?

00:25:59Marc:I guess I'm working on a different imaginary trajectory here.

00:26:03Marc:But the scramble is one of those great scrambles because the bureaucrats are like, you know, they're just hedging their bets.

00:26:10Guest:Yeah.

00:26:10Marc:And the scientists are like, you know, this is the only way we got here.

00:26:14Guest:Yeah.

00:26:15Marc:And then can we get enough of the stuff?

00:26:16Marc:Yeah.

00:26:17Marc:Can we manufacture it quick enough?

00:26:18Guest:Yeah.

00:26:18Guest:So maybe the reason this movie hit me so hard and I fell in love with it so hard is because the first time I saw it was pre-vaccine lockdown.

00:26:28Guest:And I was just feeling that way.

00:26:31Guest:You know, we'd been stuck inside for ages.

00:26:35Marc:Yeah.

00:26:35Guest:And I was panicked and you were panicked.

00:26:37Guest:Yeah.

00:26:37Guest:And I was like, this is what it's like.

00:26:39Guest:These motherfuckers, they can't just get together and talk to the private labs and the public labs and get enough chemicals.

00:26:45Marc:Yeah.

00:26:45Marc:Right.

00:26:46Marc:So it had a prescient vibe to it.

00:26:50Guest:It felt very prescient in the moment of the pandemic.

00:26:53Marc:Interesting.

00:26:54Guest:Pre-vaccine pandemic.

00:26:55Marc:Well, it does say something like, well, I think that's an indicator of a solid piece of art of some kind that the struggle within it and what it's sort of dealing with can be a metaphor for a lot of different things.

00:27:12Guest:Yeah.

00:27:12Marc:Yeah.

00:27:13Marc:Well, that's good.

00:27:14Marc:I also thought this was very interesting because they don't destroy the beast.

00:27:19Marc:It's just like another building.

00:27:21Marc:What a weird decision.

00:27:24Marc:They freeze him, and it's not even clear that it's going to hold.

00:27:27Guest:Yeah, it is not clear that it's going to hold.

00:27:29Marc:Like they know they froze him, but this is kind of an amazing animal because it can shoot atomic laser beams out of its mouth and ass and eyes.

00:27:37Yeah.

00:27:37Marc:But they do know that they've figured out this solution that will work.

00:27:43Marc:But there he is.

00:27:44Marc:He's just standing there.

00:27:45Marc:Yeah, everything's all fucking resolved.

00:27:47Marc:But the one thing they don't show with this stuff is that you have to assume that he's cutting skyscrapers in half.

00:27:53Marc:The death toll of whatever was going on there.

00:27:55Marc:Immense.

00:27:57Guest:Astronomical.

00:27:59Marc:Astronomical.

00:27:59Marc:So many people dying.

00:28:01Guest:I know.

00:28:02Guest:You made a little upset noise.

00:28:04Guest:That was good, too.

00:28:07Guest:That was like the real tension for me.

00:28:09Guest:And there were so many shots that were just like old people trying to get across railroad tracks.

00:28:15Guest:Yeah.

00:28:15Guest:The one that made you go like, oh, was like there was a mom and dad in an apartment in one of the skyscrapers and they were like putting a bicycle helmet on their little kid.

00:28:24Guest:And then they didn't get out in time.

00:28:26Guest:It's just like leveled.

00:28:27Guest:Yeah.

00:28:28Guest:You made a very like upset noise when that happened.

00:28:30Marc:Horrible.

00:28:31Marc:The idea of it's horrible.

00:28:32Marc:It is.

00:28:33Marc:But that is something that like how do you read that?

00:28:37Marc:The thing is just there.

00:28:38Marc:It's like now that's just going to be part of culture.

00:28:40Marc:This giant frozen Godzilla on the skyline.

00:28:44Guest:They've had to deal as a culture with fucking things that no other culture has had to deal with as a result of.

00:28:53Marc:There's always a reminder.

00:28:54Guest:Yeah.

00:28:55Marc:Yeah.

00:28:55Guest:There's always a reminder and it's always a fucking weird alien thing that no one else has context for in terms of living with on a daily basis.

00:29:04Marc:I've never been to Japan.

00:29:05Marc:I've never been to the monuments.

00:29:07Marc:There must be monuments.

00:29:08Guest:There's a line in the original Godzilla where they're just talking about like, you know, just shot and shot and shot in Tokyo, Tokyo, Tokyo, daily life, daily life.

00:29:17Guest:And one lady on a train is like talking to a handsome gentleman about Godzilla coming closer to Tokyo.

00:29:23Guest:And she's like, I'm leaving.

00:29:24Guest:I barely got out of Nagasaki.

00:29:26Guest:And like, what a fucking thing to say.

00:29:28Guest:Yeah.

00:29:30Marc:Here we go again.

00:29:31Marc:These goddamn nuclear lizards and bombs.

00:29:34Guest:Right.

00:29:35Marc:So, all right.

00:29:36Marc:Well, that was a satisfying movie.

00:29:38Guest:It was.

00:29:39Marc:What are we watching next?

00:29:41Guest:I want to watch Suspiria next because you saw an ad for a Suspiria t-shirt on Instagram and asked me what Suspiria is.

00:29:49Marc:Now, that's part of a trilogy?

00:29:50Marc:We don't have to watch the whole trilogy.

00:29:51Marc:Suspiria is the best one?

00:29:52Guest:Yeah.

00:29:53Marc:And that's straight up horror?

00:29:54Marc:Straight up horror.

00:29:55Guest:I mean, we could watch something else.

00:29:56Guest:What do you want to watch?

00:29:57Guest:You want to watch a John Carpenter movie?

00:29:59Guest:You like him?

00:29:59Marc:Well...

00:30:01Marc:I like them okay.

00:30:02Marc:I kind of like They Live.

00:30:03Marc:I like the sunglasses.

00:30:07Marc:The magic glasses where you can see the truth.

00:30:09Guest:Yeah.

00:30:09Guest:Did you see Prince of Darkness?

00:30:11Marc:No.

00:30:12Guest:Oh, there's a tube of green slime that is Satan.

00:30:17Guest:No, it's a weird one.

00:30:19Marc:That's Carpenter?

00:30:20Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:30:22Marc:What was that movie we saw about the making of a Dargento movie?

00:30:25Marc:Remember that one about the sound guy?

00:30:27Guest:You watched that without me.

00:30:28Marc:What was that?

00:30:29Guest:Something sound...

00:30:30Marc:Yeah, why did I watch it?

00:30:32Guest:I think you had to watch it because you were interviewing someone...

00:30:37Marc:Oh.

00:30:38Guest:For something?

00:30:40Guest:Barbarian Sound Studio.

00:30:42Marc:Yeah.

00:30:43Marc:I think it was just recommended to me, wasn't it?

00:30:45Marc:Maybe.

00:30:46Marc:Yeah.

00:30:46Marc:I don't think I interviewed on that.

00:30:47Guest:I think we were on a Toby Jones kick because we had just watched First Cow.

00:30:52Marc:Oh.

00:30:53Marc:No, but somebody had told me that was... Oh, you know, it was... Guillermo del Toro.

00:30:58Marc:Guillermo del Toro told me to watch that.

00:30:59Guest:I wish you could have stayed friends with him long enough for me to see his cool house.

00:31:03Yeah.

00:31:03Marc:I think that's what got him mad at me.

00:31:05Guest:Is it because you accidentally doxed his cool house?

00:31:07Marc:I might have.

00:31:07Guest:I'm sorry.

00:31:08Marc:It happened before.

00:31:09Marc:And I, well, he might have just gotten busy.

00:31:12Marc:And, you know, the friendships that I make here in the studio rarely last long.

00:31:17Guest:Rarely.

00:31:18Marc:Rarely.

00:31:19Guest:Rarely.

00:31:20Marc:Rarely last long.

00:31:21Marc:There's some exchanges.

00:31:23Marc:Yeah.

00:31:23Marc:And then it just fades away.

00:31:24Marc:And all my big famous friends are fair weather friends.

00:31:28Guest:Oh, no.

00:31:29Marc:We have one nice conversation.

00:31:31Marc:I had a nice lunch with Guillermo.

00:31:33Yeah.

00:31:33Marc:Me and Tracy Letts, he still checks in occasionally.

00:31:36Marc:And my new friend, James Gray, we have yet to manifest.

00:31:39Marc:But we went to dinner there.

00:31:40Marc:That was nice.

00:31:40Guest:We've been to dinner twice at James Gray's house.

00:31:42Guest:He's sweet.

00:31:42Marc:Yeah, I don't know.

00:31:43Guest:His lady is sweet.

00:31:44Marc:His kids are nice.

00:31:45Marc:Yeah, I don't know what I expect.

00:31:46Marc:I'm like, how come we're not hanging out every few days?

00:31:50Marc:I'm running errands, James.

00:31:51Marc:Let's get in the car.

00:31:53Marc:You can go grocery shopping.

00:31:54Marc:Yeah, James, let's go buy food.

00:31:56Marc:That would be fun to do with him.

00:31:57Guest:You can do a farmer's market day.

00:31:58Guest:Go to the Hollywood farmer's market together.

00:32:01Marc:Okay, all right.

00:32:01Marc:Well, this is, we don't have to talk about this.

00:32:03Guest:How nice.

00:32:04Marc:Yes.

00:32:04Guest:Do you want to watch Suspiria next?

00:32:06Marc:Okay.

00:32:07Marc:That's the project?

00:32:08Guest:Suspiria.

00:32:09Marc:Yeah, all right.

00:32:10Marc:Good talk.

00:32:10Marc:Let's go try and make vegan tacos.

00:32:12Marc:Love it.

00:32:12Guest:Boomer List.

00:32:20Marc:Boomer List.